    [Senate Hearing 118-145]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                            S. Hrg. 118-145

                       UNLOCKING THE VIRTUAL FRONT DOOR:
                         ENSURING ACCESSIBLE GOVERNMENT
                           TECHNOLOGY FOR PEOPLE WITH
                          DISABILITIES, OLDER ADULTS,
                                  AND VETERANS

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                           SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                                 WASHINGTON, DC

                                   __________

                               SEPTEMBER 21, 2023

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 118-08

             Printed for the use of the Special Committee on Aging

       [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                             ______

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     53-747          WASHINGTON : 2023

                           SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON AGING

                  ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

    KIRSTEN E. GILLIBRAND, New York      MIKE BRAUN, Indiana
    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
    ELIZABETH WARREN, Massachusetts      MARCO RUBIO, Florida
    MARK KELLY, Arizona                  RICK SCOTT, Florida
    RAPHAEL WARNOCK, Georgia             J.D. VANCE, Ohio
    JOHN FETTERMAN, Pennsylvania         PETE RICKETTS, Nebraska
                                  ----------
                   Elizabeth Letter, Majority Staff Director
                    Matthew Sommer, Minority Staff Director

                             C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                                  ----------

                                                                       Page

    Opening Statement of Senator Robert P. Casey, Jr., Chairman......     1
    Opening Statement of Senator Mike Braun, Ranking Member..........     3

                               PANEL OF WITNESSES

    Chris Westbrook, Accessibility Engineer, Allyant, Williamsport,
      Pennsylvania...................................................     5
    Ronza Othman, President, Maryland Chapter of the National
      Federation of the Blind, President, National Association of
      Blind Government Employees, Baltimore, Maryland................     6
    Jay Doyle, Chief Executive Officer, Service Oklahoma, Oklahoma
      City, Oklahoma.................................................     8
    Ashley Lichtle, Americans with Disabilities Act Coordinator for
      Salt Lake City, Salt Lake City, Utah...........................    10

                                    APPENDIX
                          Prepared Witness Statements

    Chris Westbrook, Accessibility Engineer, Allyant, Williamsport,
      Pennsylvania...................................................    27
    Ronza Othman, President, Maryland Chapter of the National
      Federation of the Blind, President, National Association of
      Blind Government Employees, Baltimore, Maryland................    30
    Jay Doyle, Chief Executive Officer, Service Oklahoma, Oklahoma
      City, Oklahoma.................................................    38
    Ashley Lichtle, Americans with Disabilities Act Coordinator for
      Salt Lake City, Salt Lake City, Utah...........................    40

                            Questions for the Record

    Chris Westbrook, Accessibility Engineer, Allyant, Williamsport,
      Pennsylvania...................................................    45
    Ronza Othman, President, Maryland Chapter of the National
      Federation of the Blind, President, National Association of
      Blind Government Employees, Baltimore, Maryland................    49
    Jay Doyle, Chief Executive Officer, Service Oklahoma, Oklahoma
      City, Oklahoma.................................................    57
    Ashley Lichtle, Americans with Disabilities Act Coordinator for
      Salt Lake City, Salt Lake City, Utah...........................    58

                           Statements for the Record

    Department of Veterans Affairs Statement.........................    63
    American Foundation for the Blind Statement......................    68
    BOSMA Enterprises Statement......................................    74
    Blinded Veterans Association Statement...........................    77
    Deaf Seniors of America, Inc. and National Association of State
      Agencies of the Deaf and Hard of Hearing Statement.............    83
    Department of Homeland Security..................................   106
    United States Access Board Statement.............................   109
    Information Technology Innovation Foundation Statement...........   114
    Perkins School for the Blind Statement...........................   117
    Jonathan Lazar, Ph.D., Statement.................................   123
    United States Department of Education Office of Inspector General
      Statement......................................................   129
    California Governor's Office of Emergency Services Statement.....   133
    Pennsylvania Office of Administration Statement..................   139

                       UNLOCKING THE VIRTUAL FRONT DOOR:

                         ENSURING ACCESSIBLE GOVERNMENT

                           TECHNOLOGY FOR PEOPLE WITH

                          DISABILITIES, OLDER ADULTS,

                                  AND VETERANS

                                  ----------

                          Thursday, September 21, 2023

                                            U.S. Senate
                                     Special Committee on Aging
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:03 a.m., Room
    106, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Robert P. Casey, Jr.,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senator Casey, Braun, Blumenthal, Kelly,
    Fetterman, and Rick Scott.

                     OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
            ROBERT P. CASEY, JR., CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE

        The Chairman. The hearing will come to order. Thank you to
    our witnesses. I know I was running a little late, so didn't
    have an opportunity to greet our witnesses, but thank you for
    being here, and grateful to be here with Ranking Member Braun.
        This month marks the 50th anniversary of the Rehabilitation
    Act amendments of 1973. When they became law, these amendments
    prohibited discrimination on the basis of disability by the
    Federal Government in federally funded programs and by Federal
    contractors.
        With the passage of the Rehabilitation Act amendments, the
    Federal Government made it a priority to ensure that every
    person has access, access to government programs and services.
    It also established the Foundation for the Americans with
    Disabilities Act, passed some 17 years later.
        Since the passage of the so-called Rehab Act, technology
    has become an important doorway to government services at the
    local, state, and Federal levels. The COVID-19 pandemic showed
    us again the importance of using websites and apps as a way to
    access government programs, services, and information.
        Last year, this Committee examined the compliance, or I
    should say examined compliance, of one part of the
    Rehabilitation Act, Section 508, which requires Federal
    technology to be accessible for and usable by people with
    disabilities.
        One of our witnesses, Jule Ann Lieberman of Devon,
    Pennsylvania, testified she could not access CDC's COVID data.
    Jule Ann told us that at that time, ``in crisis times, all need
    access to trusted information and services.''
        This is true for Federal agencies. It is equally important
    for state and local governments to provide critical services,
    especially those related to safety and emergency response.
        In December of this past year, I released this report. The
    name of it is, "Unlocking the Virtual Front Door." This report
    found accessibility problems with technology at the Department
    of Veterans Affairs, and unfortunately throughout the Federal
    Government. I am pleased that because of bipartisan efforts
    with members on this Committee, and through our Congress, some
    improvements have been made.
        The Veterans Administration reorganized its technology
    access office and bolstered its efforts to make VA technology
    accessible. The Justice Department and the General Services
    Administration committed to new oversight and transparency of
    accessible Federal technology. Many Inspectors General are also
    taking a new look at accessibility.
        For example, the VA Office of Inspector General plans to
    release a report on the accessibility of VA technology in the
    coming months, and we have seen progress to improve
    accessibility of state and local government resources. In early
    August, the Department of Justice issued a proposed rule
    setting website and technology accessible--accessibility
    standards for local and state governments.
        These long overdue proposed standards are necessary to
    ensure people who are blind, deaf, have physical disabilities,
    or intellectual disabilities can access programs, services, and
    information provided by local and state government.
        I commend the Justice Department for issuing these proposed
    rules. I know that the public will help strengthen them, and I
    look forward to the final rule to make all government
    technology more accessible for all Americans.
        These are positive steps, but there--I should say, there
    are more. There is more work we can do. There are positive
    steps we in Congress can take. Recently, I worked with Senator
    Rick Scott to introduce the Veterans Accessibility Act.
        Our legislation would create a VA advisory committee to
    oversee VA's compliance with all accessibility laws. People
    with disabilities would serve on the committee, providing
    important feedback, and today, a number of Senators and I will
    introduce the Federal Agency Accessibility Compliance Act.
        Our bill will bolster the role of Federal Section 508
    compliance officers in Federal agencies, require agency and
    department heads to personally certify, certify, that their
    organization's technology is accessible, and to post plans and
    timelines if their agency technology is not accessible.
        These bills are common sense legislation designed to ensure
    Federal Government services, programs, and communications are
    accessible to all Americans, so, we have much more work to do
    to make websites and technology at all levels of government
    accessible, or, I might add, fully accessible.
        I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how we
    can accomplish that goal, and I will now turn to Ranking Member
    Braun for his opening statement.

                     OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR
                       MIKE BRAUN, RANKING MEMBER

        Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Technology has
    definitely changed the way we all live. No doubt about it. It
    has been around for a long time. During COVID, though, far too
    many in-person services were closed.
        People were forced to turn to the internet for basic
    services, from food to health care, and even local, state, and
    Federal Government services. I caution against ever closing
    physical doors again. Some places, technology is not
    widespread.
        Even in a State like ours, where we have been working hard
    to get it into every nook and cranny. Many rural areas did not
    have adequate good high-speed internet. We are relying on it
    more and more all the time. Even though we need to keep, I
    think, person to person services open as well, we need to, with
    technology, design it with accessibility in mind.
        Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act mandates that Federal
    electronic and information technology be accessible to people
    with disabilities. However, we have heard from many
    constituents that the Federal Government has not done a good
    job at complying, far too often leaving people with
    disabilities behind.
        That is why I joined with Chairman Casey in requesting a
    GAO study into the Federal Government's compliance. While this
    law generally does not apply to states, many states have taken
    it upon themselves to improve the accessibility of their
    services. States are generally going to be a lot more
    responsive, a lot quicker at getting something done.
        Not to mention that they are laboratory of different ways
    that might make sense for other states to pay attention to and
    rub off on the Federal Government as well. While this law
    generally does not apply to states in a mandatory way, it
    still--we should not rely on this place to craft those
    solutions.
        In Indiana, for instance, mobile and digital services are
    available, and we have done a good job with it. For more than a
    decade, the Indiana State Government website has included
    screen readers, quarterly accessibility audits, high contrast
    views, and modifiable screen size.
        In 2021, Indiana added a new feature, accessiBe, which
    allows users to modify their experience for various
    accessibility profiles, including seizure, safe vision
    impaired, cognitive disability, or blindness, and the State
    works with local governments to make their website platform
    available to them, so far, more than 70 local governments in
    Indiana use the state government platform, of 92 counties. That
    is a pretty good percentage. We have got places like Bosma
    Enterprises in Indiana that have been on this pursuit for a
    long time.
        It utilizes cutting edge assistive technology and computer
    training programs to help Hoosiers with vision loss regain
    their independence. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the
    record a statement from Bosma Enterprises.
        The Chairman. Without objection.
        Senator Braun. This type of work is not unique to just
    Indiana. States like Colorado, Ohio, Oklahoma, who we will hear
    from today, are all leading in technology accessibility.
        We must ensure that states do not lose the flexibility they
    need to continue to introduce programs and mechanisms that work
    best for their unique communities. I am encouraged by the
    states' leadership and urge them to continue to explore ways to
    improve accessibility.
        I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Braun. Now, we will
    introduce our witnesses. Our first witness is Mr. Chris
    Westbrook of Williamsport, Pennsylvania. Mr. Westbrook is an
    experienced Programmer and an Accessibility Engineer for
    Allyant, a company that evaluates whether websites are
    accessible for people with disabilities.
        Mr. Westbrook is blind, hard of hearing, and has a mobility
    disability. That means he knows firsthand how accessible--or I
    should say inaccessible websites can impact people with
    disabilities.
        Mr. Westbrook will discuss those personal experiences. He
    will also talk about the more common website barriers he has
    learned from his work. Mr. Westbrook, thank you for testifying
    today.
        Our second witness is Ms. Ronza Othman. Ms. Othman is
    President of the Maryland Chapter of the National Federation of
    the Blind. She is also President of NFB's National Association
    of Blind Government Employees.
        Today, she will discuss how members of these organizations
    have been impacted by inaccessible government technology at the
    Federal, state, and local levels. Thank you for sharing these
    stories with us today, Ms. Othman.
        I will now turn to Ranking Member Braun to introduce our
    third witness.
        Senator Braun. Mr. Jay Doyle is a CEO of Service Oklahoma,
    a State agency focused on making it easier for people in
    Oklahoma to get the services they need.
        Service Oklahoma is a model of sate innovation that has
    been nationally recognized. Jay is a visionary leader with a
    diverse career that revolves around service. His work has been
    recognized through multiple accolades, including the OKC Biz
    40, under 40, and Oklahoma's Next Generation Award.
        Jay earned his Bachelor of Science in Biochemistry from the
    University of Oklahoma. He lives in Oklahoma City with his wife
    and daughter, and I understand you had an anniversary
    yesterday, happy anniversary, Jay, and thank you for being here
    today to testify.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Braun. Our final
    witness is Ashley Lichtle. Ashley is the Americans with
    Disabilities Act (ADA) Coordinator for Salt Lake City, Utah.
    Previously, she worked as a disability advocate at the Partners
    for Inclusive Communities in Arkansas.
        She will discuss why accessible websites and apps are
    important for Salt Lake City, as well as the City's efforts to
    make its technology more accessible. We appreciate you taking
    the time to testify.
        Now we will start with our witness statements. We will
    start first with Mr. Westbrook. Please share your opening
    statement.

    STATEMENT OF CHRIS WESTBROOK, ACCESSIBILITY ENGINEER, ALLYANT,
                       WILLIAMSPORT, PENNSYLVANIA

        Mr. Westbrook. Good morning, Chairman Casey, Ranking Member
    Braun, and members of the Senate Special Committee on Aging.
        I am a blind Pennsylvanian serving as the Secretary for the
    Board of Directors of the Road to Freedom Center for
    Independent Living of North Central Pennsylvania. I also am
    President of the National Federation of the Blind of
    Pennsylvania's Deaf-Blind Division.
        I also work in the field of web accessibility as an
    Accessibility Engineer for a company called Allyant, so, I deal
    with accessibility issues on a daily basis, both personally and
    professionally. Government websites must be accessible so that
    all constituents at all levels of government have access to
    programs, services, and information.
        For example, imagine not being able to file your local
    taxes online. This is the situation I face simply because I
    have a disability. When I went to the county website to pay my
    taxes online, I couldn't because I couldn't find the button
    used to submit the form.
        This ultimately forced me to seek sighted assistance to
    perform a task that everyone else can perform independently.
    Being forced to use sighted assistance means that I have to
    reveal private and sensitive information to someone else,
    something a sighted person would never have to do.
        I have also tried to use our city's website, but I don't
    think I am getting all the information as the links all
    announce there is a submenu that I cannot access. This could
    result in missing key local services. People with disabilities
    need to be able to perform the same tasks as our non-disabled
    peers when it comes to work, recreation, and community living.
        How do we get there? To make government websites
    accessible, we must improve standards such as the Web Content
    Accessibility Guidelines, WCAG. We must also recognize that
    accessibility is not a one and done deal but is always changing
    due to advances in technology and changes in website software.
        To ensure that government websites and technology are
    accessible, people with disabilities need to be involved in the
    development of the websites and the monitoring of the websites
    to ensure they remain accessible.
        One strategy for ensuring accessibility is to have people
    with disabilities, in conjunction with non-disabled advocates
    and peers, test and monitor websites and technology together.
    At Allyant, we perform what is called paired auditing, where a
    native screen reader user is paired with a sighted auditor.
        This helps ensure that the disables are getting an
    equitable experience to non-disabled users and ensures possible
    barriers to accessibility are identified for all types of
    disabilities, not just blind people. For people like me, and
    really for all Americans, accessibility needs to become just
    another part of doing business.
        Accessibility must be considered from the design phase all
    the way through the process of implementing and maintaining a
    website. That is how we make government technology and all
    technology accessible. Again, thank you for your time, and I
    hope my testimony and expertise can move us closer to a world
    that is accessible to all.
        The Chairman. Mr. Westbrook, thank you for your testimony,
    and thanks for your good work. We now turn to Ms. Othman for
    your opening statement.

             STATEMENT OF RONZA OTHMAN, PRESIDENT, MARYLAND

               CHAPTER OF THE NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE

            BLIND, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLIND

               GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES, BALTIMORE, MARYLAND

        Ms. Othman. Good morning. I would like to thank Chairperson
    Casey, Ranking Member Braun, and all of the other members of
    the Special Committee on Aging for this opportunity to offer
    testimony on the impact of inaccessible technology in
    government.
        My name is Ronza Othman, and by day I am an employee of an
    executive branch Federal agency, where I am an attorney and
    manage equal employment opportunity and civil rights programs.
    However, I am testifying before you in my personal capacity, as
    in my spare time, I serve as a leader in the National
    Federation of the Blind.
        As Chairman Casey indicated, my roles include serving as
    the President of the National Association of Blind Government
    Employees, where I engage with current, retired, and
    prospective employees of Federal, state, and local government
    agencies across the Nation.
        I am also the President of the National Federation of the
    Blind of Maryland, representing blind and low vision
    Marylanders who work for government, but who also, like most
    Americans, engage with Federal, state, and local government for
    a variety of reasons.
        Access to information and communication technology,
    including hardware, software, web, and mobile applications, and
    other platforms and information is a critical civil right for
    the blind, other Americans with disability, and the ever-
    growing aging population.
        Technology has been a true equalizer for blind and low
    vision Americans, as well as many others with disabilities, so
    much of the information we receive on a daily basis is
    communicated visually, and the proliferation of technology has
    enabled our community to gain access to that information at the
    same time as our non-disabled counterparts.
        Today, I can use the phone in my pocket to operate my ring
    doorbell, operate my vacuum, set my thermostat, reheat my
    leftovers, and half a dozen other tasks in my house when I am
    not even at home. These are all mainstream technologies, not
    adaptations, made for people with disabilities.
        However, the origins of these adaptations resulted in
    mainstream technology. In essence, when a manufacturer or
    developer chooses to build a product and includes accessibility
    at the beginning, virtually everyone can use it, but when it
    comes to engaging with our government, these technologies are
    woefully behind.
        Often government procured, maintained, or developed ICT is
    not accessible to those of us with disabilities. It is neither
    difficult nor costly to make ICT accessible for individuals
    with disabilities. If accessibility is baked into the system at
    the development stage, it is simply coding in a way that
    ensures information is tagged properly and navigable by
    assistive technology. Imagine making a pizza and adding the
    pizza sauce.
        Now, imagine making a pizza and omitting the pizza sauce
    prior to making it. Then imagine trying to put the sauce on
    after the pizza has been baked, sliced, and even some of it
    served. It is a difficult but not impossible task to fix the
    pizza, but it would have been a lot easier to just have added
    the sauce from the beginning.
        Here are some examples our members have experience that
    illustrate the impact of inaccessible technology. A substitute
    teacher in one county school district was told that she would
    not be assigned to the district's middle schools because their
    attendance recording system was not accessible with her screen
    reader.
        A state employee newly hired to work at a call center for a
    state comptroller's office had her job offer rescinded after
    the State determined its tax information data-base was not
    accessible with assistive technology.
        A Department of Defense employee was kicked out of a
    training program in which she had been enrolled for five years
    and had nearly completed when her agency determined that its
    testing systems for certification were no longer accessible to
    assistive technology users. Dozens of state employees and a
    number of states who use the same software application could no
    longer enter their time and attendance in their states'
    timekeeping system due to updates that broke accessibility.
        Law enforcement entities have to enter information about
    law enforcement officers that are under investigation, which
    would then potentially render their testimony problematic.
    Prosecutors have to check those data-bases in disclose and
    discovery if any officers are under investigation. However, if
    they fail to do so, the entire case is likely to be thrown out
    and potential criminals are set free.
        In the last few weeks, I have heard from two different
    blind prosecutors from different sides of the country who have
    had near misses in terms of disclosing this information to
    opposing counsel in discovery.
        The reason? The system is not accessible to assistive
    technology. Imagine a scenario when it wasn't a near miss, but
    because the prosecutor didn't have effective, accessible tools,
    they unknowingly failed to disclose such information, which
    resulted in a case being thrown out and a potential violent
    criminal being released to commit another crime. Had the
    technology been accessible, this wouldn't be a concern.
        These are just a handful of examples, but there are
    hundreds, if not thousands of others. In my written testimony,
    I shared some recommended actions that will improve 508
    compliance across the Federal Government.
        Chief among them is that the access board must be
    sufficiently resourced to do the job it has been tasked, and
    there have to be improvements in accountability and enforcement
    across the Federal Government. I also shared in my written
    testimony information about which states have laws and policies
    related to technology accessibility.
        I shared some of the recommendations for state and local
    government to improve in this area. One key framework will be
    the ADA Title II regulations. However, the notice of proposed
    rulemaking proposes seven new exceptions that are so
    problematic that they will erase the decades of progress in the
    accessibility space.
        We strongly urge the Department of Justice not to adopt any
    of those new exceptions. We work in government, those of us who
    do, because we care about this country and the people who live
    in it.
        Though our eyes don't work in the typical way, we are
    capable of serving the public and doing so well, provided the
    technology is developed with basic accessibility in mind. In a
    day and age where technology advances at the speed of light, we
    are not limited by our disabilities.
        We are limited by the government that fails to include our
    needs in its technology infrastructure. This is not a
    capability problem. This is a willingness problem. Do Federal,
    state, and local government have the willingness to be
    different? Only time will tell. Thank you very much.
        The Chairman. Ms. Othman, thanks so much for your
    testimony. Before turning to our next witness, we are joined by
    Senator Blumenthal and Senator Kelly as well. Mr. Doyle.

           STATEMENT OF JAY DOYLE, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER,
               SERVICE OKLAHOMA, OKLAHOMA CITY, OKLAHOMA

        Mr. Doyle. Honorable members of the U.S. Senate Aging
    Committee, I am honored to testify here today to tell Service
    Oklahoma's story on how we are improving the accessibility
    government services for all Oklahomans.
        Home to Four million people, the State provides vital
    services to citizens during some of the most important times of
    their lives. From obtaining essential documents like birth
    certificates, driver's licenses, motor vehicle registrations,
    and professional licenses, to facilitating employment
    opportunities, Oklahomans rely on efficient and responsive
    government services.
        However, as we have witnessed, these services are often
    necessitate navigating a labyrinth of agency websites, offices,
    and phone numbers, a problem magnified during the pandemic when
    access to these services became more critical than ever.
        Citizens found themselves waiting on the phone for hours or
    even camping outside agency offices overnight just to secure
    their spot in the line. It was clear that transformation was
    needed.
        Service Oklahoma was created by the Oklahoma Legislature in
    May 2022, with a mission to ease citizens' stress in navigating
    and obtaining government services, while providing a great
    experience.
        Starting with your stereotypical DMV services, Service
    Oklahoma started the Administration of our driver's license
    program in November 2022, and our motor vehicle program for the
    State in January 2022--or January 2023, transferring those
    existing functions and employees from the agencies that
    previously offered those services.
        Today, we are responsible for seven million transactions
    and generate almost $1 billion in revenue for the State on an
    annual basis. The overarching goal of Service Oklahoma is to
    create a seamless, consistent experience regardless of whether
    you visit our website, call our customer support
    representatives, or come see us at one of our strategically
    located locations spread across all counties of the State of
    Oklahoma.
        We want to meet Oklahomans where they are, designing
    services around the citizen, making services easy to
    understand, available when and where they need them, and being
    proactive instead of reactive.
        While still in our infancy, we have been able to
    significantly improve our services and launch various new and
    improved digital products for our citizens. There is one that I
    want to specifically highlight, which also happened to be our
    first product launch, the disability parking placard, which
    impacts almost 100,000 Oklahomans each year.
        Historically, disabled Oklahomans in need of a disability
    parking placard were required to complete a ten-step process
    that often included repeated contact with their approving
    physician and multiple visits to the Department of Public
    Safety headquarters in Oklahoma City.
        For Oklahomans outside of the Oklahoma City Metro area,
    this step would require them to travel for hours before they
    had the benefit of a disability parking placard. Once the
    customer navigated the cumbersome application process, they
    were left with no means to check the status of their
    application, while they waited on average of 45 days to finally
    receive the disability placard.
        The process was further complicated by the fact that their
    applications were occasionally lost during this process. These
    obstacles created by the original process led to poor customer
    satisfaction, and in some instances, served as a complete
    roadblock to Oklahomans' ability to receive government
    services.
        A multi-agency collaborative program was launched by a team
    now known to Service Oklahoma and the Oklahoma Department of
    Public Safety to reimagine this process for obtaining a
    disability parking placard in a more customer centric,
    digitally oriented, and accessible manner.
        The team also worked with the Oklahoma Medical Board to
    engage physicians in this pilot process. The high-level
    strategy behind the digital disability placard was to
    understand existing pain points from the perspective of all
    stakeholders, but especially the customer, and iteratively
    improve each version of the online product based on surveys and
    interactions with disabled Oklahomans, employees who process
    the applications, and physicians.
        The resulting disability placard product dramatically
    improved the experience for all stakeholders involved.
    Customers now have the option to apply online through an easy
    to find, an easy-to-use form, with no in-person visits
    required.
        This new application to shorten wait times by almost 90
    percent and eliminated 60 percent of the steps required by the
    original process. Customer satisfaction with the new
    application is high, with customers rating the process a 6.2
    out of seven and applauding the ability to track the
    application process and ultimately receive their disability
    placard from the comfort of their homes. Service Oklahoma
    represents a profound shift in how Oklahoma's government
    interacts with its citizens.
        By focusing on simplicity, accessibility, and efficiency,
    we are positioning Oklahoma as a leader in providing government
    services that meet the evolving expectations of our citizens.
    In closing, I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to tell our
    story.
        Service Oklahoma's journey is a testament to what can be
    achieved when we prioritize the citizens' needs. We are eager
    to collaborate, share insights, and work together to knock the
    virtual front door to government services for everyone. Thank
    you for your time. I look forward to your questions and
    discussion.
        The Chairman. Mr. Doyle, thanks for your testimony. Next,
    we turn to our fourth and final witness, Mr. Lichtle--Ms.
    Lichtle, sorry.

              STATEMENT OF ASHLEY LICHTLE, AMERICANS WITH

               DISABILITIES ACT COORDINATOR FOR SALT LAKE

                       CITY, SALT LAKE CITY, UTAH

        Ms. Lichtle. Thank you. Hello, members of the Committee. My
    name is Ashley Lichtle. I would like to thank Chairman Casey,
    Ranking Member Braun, their teams, and the other members of
    this Committee for this opportunity.
        This has been a top initiative of mine since I joined the
    Mayor's Office in 2021, so I am honored to be here with you all
    today. The rush to go virtual during the onset of the COVID-19
    pandemic revealed that most functions of daily life were easily
    able to be digital, but more importantly, it exposed just how
    inaccessible much of our digital spaces are when improperly
    designed or designed without the user experience in mind.
        The COVID-19 pandemic also revealed how vital and sometimes
    lifesaving it is that all people have equal access to
    information from their Federal, state, and local governments.
    Governments have utilized digital spaces to provide pertinent
    information as a means of engaging with the public for decades,
    yet still fall short in providing fully accessible digital
    spaces.
        The ADA greatly influenced the inclusion of people with
    disabilities in the built environment, but there remains a
    large gap in digital spaces. Governmental entities want to be
    accessible to and inclusive of their residents, but unlike
    stairs or narrow walkways, inaccessible features of websites
    and other digital spaces are invisible to those who do not rely
    on them unless they have been trained to seek out and remedy
    these barriers to access.
        Salt Lake City's current website templates are often
    inaccessible with little ability to adjust template features.
    The city is migrating to a new system that will allow for
    greater flexibility in fixing any accessibility issues. This
    migration will also allow the city to utilize APIs from other
    local apps to build what our residents and visitors need to
    navigate our digital and physical spaces more independently.
        This move away from some third party app developers is
    vital to the engagement of people with disabilities in our
    city. Recently, I worked with our Information Management
    Services team, a low vision resident, and the city's
    Accessibility and Disability Commission Chair, who is a blind
    individual, to identify ways the City Request App was
    inaccessible to them.
        When reviewing this with the developer, they informed us
    that some issues were well known to them and would not be fixed
    in any upcoming updates. Therefore, this app would remain
    inaccessible to the resident and others like him.
        We can create an accessible user experience with our new
    website and apps through partnerships like the National
    Federation of the Blind of Utah and through the expertise of
    our city's Accessibility and Disability Commission.
        Having implementation guidance from the Federal Government
    would further improve the design and development of these
    spaces. Designing digital content with all users in mind is
    also crucial for civic engagement. People with disabilities
    have been underrepresented in civic engagement efforts or
    entirely prevented from participation in civic engagement
    efforts throughout history.
        Therefore, utilizing WCAG 2.1 and digital surveys, and
    other digital engagement content is vital for the inclusion and
    participation of our residents with disabilities. Our civic
    engagement team collaborates with me often to review
    accessibility before surveys are released to the public.
        This team is also compiling a style guide for creating
    engaging and inclusive surveys. We value the contributions of,
    and feedback from, the disabled community in improving our
    city, and work to make sure our content reflects those values.
    Data shows, on average, people with disabilities make up
    roughly 25 percent of the population.
        This is a significant amount of people that may not be able
    to perceive, interact with, or understand the digital content
    governments create, which can result in frustration, lack of
    engagement, and at the very worst, feelings of isolation.
        Adopting WCAG 2.1 would be a much-needed step toward the
    full participation and independence of people with
    disabilities. It is imperative that entities understand how to
    comply with WCAG 2.1, so I urge the Department of Justice, U.S.
    Access Board, and ADA National Network to be diligent in
    creating technical guidance, especially plain language guides
    and trainings, for entities as they implement these
    regulations.
        Thank you all for your work on this vital effort for
    inclusion.
        The Chairman. Ms. Lichtle, thank you very much for your
    testimony. We will turn to our questions now. I will start with
    Mr. Westbrook. Chris, you shared your experiences living with
    disabilities and you also have worked as both a software
    engineer and now as an accessibility engineer.
        Through both your everyday life and your professional
    experience, you know about barriers, and you highlighted some
    in your testimony that exist in modern technology. You know
    that when inaccessible--you know that inaccessible technology
    can limit independence and place a person at a personal and
    professional disadvantage.
        Can you share with us a little more about how inaccessible
    Federal, state, or local websites can affect the day to day
    life of someone with a disability?
        Mr. Westbrook. Sure, so, I just heard from a friend
    yesterday about this new--they were trying to file for
    unemployment, and they were stymied, I guess you could say, by
    this ID.me. I guess it is like a new way to verify somebody's
    identity due to the camera and stuff like that, and they
    couldn't get past it.
        You know, you can imagine, you know, you have already--you
    know, you have lost your job, and you are trying to file for
    unemployment, which is stressful enough, and then, you know, to
    have that barrier in your way is just, you know, creates
    additional stress and isolation, even sometimes, so, yes.
        The Chairman. You had made reference in your testimony
    about when you were completing a form, and I don't know if you
    could just refer back to that, completing a form and just
    finding the right button and barriers like that. Can you walk
    through that?
        Mr. Westbrook. Yes, so, buttons need to be coded in such a
    way as to be--so that it is going to--you can tell that they
    are actionable buttons, and if they are not coded the right
    way, they can just look like normal text, and sometimes even if
    you do think it is the right button, you know, if you hit
    anywhere on it or whatever using keyboard, it doesn't work
    because it is expecting a mouse--you know, set up a mouse for
    you to click on it, and sometimes, depending on how it is
    coded, no amount of keyboard input will make it work, and that
    was the case with that particular form.
        The Chairman. Is it true you end up using kind of
    workarounds to compensate for it?
        Mr. Westbrook. Yes. There are a few services out there. One
    of them is called ARRA, A-R-R-A, and that is a service that you
    can call and get a sighted assistant to--well, they can do
    anything, but they can connect to your computer in this case
    through remote technology and control your computer as if they
    were you.
        You can tell them what to do and they can, you know, they
    can help you navigate the website, but that is a paid service,
    and so, you know, it is not free, so some people might not be
    able to afford it. You only get a certain number of minutes per
    month.
        You know, it is really important that technology be made
    accessible and that these workarounds are just that,
    workarounds. You know, sometimes we have to start to get the
    job done. You know, we just have to do what we need to do, but
    ultimately, it is really important that technology be made
    accessible.
        The Chairman. Yes. Well, thanks very much for that. Ms.
    Othman, I am going to make reference to the history of the 50th
    anniversary of the passage of the Rehabilitation Act
    amendments, as I mentioned earlier. These amendments were
    really groundbreaking. Among other things, created the U.S.
    Access Board.
        The Act states in part that it requires, ``access to
    programs and activities that are funded by Federal agencies and
    to Federal employment.'' For both the public and for Federal
    employees themselves, a key pathway to accessing Federal
    agencies and programs is through the technology that we have
    talked about.
        The Department of Justice issued a report 10 years overdue
    that show that only 20 percent, just 20 percent, of Federal
    websites are accessible at best. I would ask you this, what do
    you consider the most common barrier to websites and technology
    accessibility at all levels of government?
        Ms. Othman. Thank you. That is a great question. I believe
    that the most common barrier to websites and any type of
    application related technology is knowledge, education. People
    don't know that they have to do it, or they don't know how to
    do it, and so they don't do it.
        The other--on par with that is also prioritization. If we
    prioritize accessibility at the same level that we prioritize
    security, privacy, other technology related aspects, so many
    people with disabilities wouldn't be left behind because we--
    there are problems with privacy and security when you are
    standing at a Social Security kiosk and you have to use a
    security guard or you have to use a bystander and tell them
    Social Security number so that they can get you into the kiosk
    to tell the Social Security Administration that you are there
    for an appointment that you have pre-scheduled, or when you are
    standing there talking to the receptionist at the VA, sharing
    your medical history so that they can fill out an inaccessible
    form for you, and now they and everyone within earshot can hear
    you.
        I think it is both the lack of knowledge and understanding,
    but also on that same level is the non-prioritization of
    accessibility on those same lines as security and privacy in
    the Federal space.
        The Chairman. I think that is a good way to think about it.
    Ranking Member Braun.
        Senator Braun. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have two
    questions for Mr. Doyle and one for Ms. Othman. Mr. Doyle, your
    Service Oklahoma is on the front lines, it seems like, in
    Oklahoma, on innovation.
        When I came to D.C., I wanted to make sure my own offices
    here, especially back home, did as well as customer service in
    the business I ran for 37 years. When you take that customer
    service to a new level, I think it shows how you can do at any
    level something better than maybe what was done before.
        Tell me how prioritizing customer service there in Oklahoma
    has enabled you to take it to the next level? Will it actually
    aid in a way to expand it further?
        Mr. Doyle. Thank you for that question. You know, for us,
    we put the citizen at the front of everything that we do. It is
    the center of our business. Our name is Service Oklahoma,
    because we are here to serve our citizens.
        We would be doing a disservice if we didn't design our
    services with our citizen in mind, and so, anything that we
    actually build, design, change, we start with actual citizen
    interviews, having conversations with the person that is
    actually going to be using the product, trying to determine
    their pain points, trying to figure out their feedback on what
    will work and what will not work.
        We also want to believe that our methodology is really
    iterative, and so, even after those initial interviews, that is
    not where our--the feedback loop starts for us, because even
    after we initially launch a product and even into all of our
    products today, at the end of every service, we actually ask
    the citizen for feedback, and we want feedback for how can we
    improve--the service we just provided or offered you, and then
    we actually take that to heart and actually continually try to
    change and improve the products that we offer.
        As we continue to improve our products and better meet the
    needs of our citizens, you know, we are improving our first
    time resolution rate. We are decreasing our transaction times.
    We are actually making our services more efficient for the
    State and actually a better product for our citizens.
        You know, we view feedback truly as a gift. It is the
    driver of everything that we do. The products and our product
    roadmap of what are we going to innovate or what are we going
    to improve next is really truly driven by customer feedback and
    what are the needs that we are hearing and seeing on the front
    lines from our citizens.
        Senator Braun. Thank you. The second question would be
    involving Federal regulations. Whenever we are going after
    improving, or doing it right in the first place, there
    sometimes can be a conflict between.
        Sometimes it works well together. How have the Federal
    regulations dovetailed with what you have been trying to
    accomplish in Oklahoma? Has it made it easier or harder to
    arrive at better results?
        Mr. Doyle. You know, we always are looking at both our
    Federal and state regulations. Obviously, we are in a fairly
    regulated, highly regulated industry just from the services
    that we provide on a day-to-day basis.
        You know, we want to be sure that we are not violating any
    statutes, both federally and locally, as well as jeopardizing
    any potential funding, so, I think those are obviously key
    items that we are looking at.
        You know, I would say, additionally, we are examining how
    can a burden of regulations or compliant requirements have on
    the speed to launch or the cost to actually implement a
    product.
        I think we are definitely having those conversations and
    concerns as we are looking at future products, but for us, the
    really decisio-nmaking for where we go with our products and
    how can we actually provide a better service is really getting
    back about the customer. Is it going to generate a substantial
    benefit for our citizens either through a simpler experience or
    more accessibility to services?
        What are our development or ongoing costs going to be when
    we are launching a new digitally enabled product? Because
    ideally that shouldn't cost us any more than it was previously
    to offer that service.
        We really want to be focused on being good stewards of
    taxpayer funds, and then finally, what is the impact on the
    citizens? Is it going to impact a high number of citizens or
    have a significant impact to their lives are really the real
    drivers we are looking at when deciding what services to kind
    of bring online.
        Senator Braun. Thank you. Ms. Othman, last August, I joined
    Chairman Casey in asking the GAO to study the Federal
    Government's compliance with Section 508. This study will
    examine how the Federal Government complies with laws requiring
    accessible technology. In your opinion, to what extent does the
    Federal Government comply with laws requiring accessible
    technology?
        Ms. Othman. Thank you, Senator, for the question. In my
    opinion, and based on my experience with my constituents, I can
    tell you that I believe the Federal Government is largely and
    substantially noncompliant with Section 508 across the board.
        That this is a systemic issue, and Federal agencies that do
    comply are rare and far between. I can also tell you, Senator,
    that the number of complaints that are cataloged and processed
    is both significantly less than the number of issues that
    actually exist, and also based on under-reporting to Congress
    and other entities.
        Most Federal agencies don't have a structure for 508
    complaints processing, so we don't actually know how bad it is.
    Added to that, no employee wants to sue their employer or file
    a complaint. Most employees will try to find workarounds.
        They will spend lots of time doing this. Most individuals
    with disabilities solve 100 problems before they even show up
    to work in the morning, and so, if these were simple problems
    in terms of inaccessibility, they would solve them themselves.
        No employee wants to make themselves vulnerable by going to
    their supervisor or their agency to say, I am struggling to do
    my job, period, let alone because of something directly related
    to their disability, meaning the inaccessibility.
        While I absolutely applaud and support the GAO study, I am
    also deeply concerned because I do not believe that Federal
    agencies are properly keeping records or that there is an
    accountability or enforcement mechanism in place to accurately
    capture the number and volume of inaccessibility, or the
    individuals that that impacts.
        Senator Braun. That is disappointing to hear, and I think
    it ought to give us pause before we try to maybe do more
    through the Federal Government when it seems to be clear that
    it is not complying with some of the same--some of the things
    it has put out there.
        I think it also means that we have got to make sure that
    states, especially the ones that are wanting to be innovative,
    are out there to where they have full flexibility to probably
    do a better job.
        Sadly, we have completed in my own office as a freshman
    Senate office, 10,000 cases back home across the array of
    Federal entanglements, and that is an amazing number in a
    little under five years.
        I just think hearings like this expose in a way the truth
    of what is being done, what is not being done, practice what
    you preach, and please make sure that we keep the flexibility
    for states to do what appears to be a better job with a report
    like that. I yield back.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Braun. We have to
    take a break in the hearing now. This hearing of the Special
    Committee on Aging will recess so that members can attend an
    all Senators session to hear from Ukrainian President Zelensky.
    The Committee will reconvene in this room after the session
    concludes at approximately 11:00 a.m. This Committee stands in
    recess.
        [Recess.]
        The Chairman. The hearing will come to order again. We are
    grateful for your patience when we had to take a break to
    listen to President Zelensky. It was an honor to be able to do
    that. I know we are starting late, so I am going to go right to
    two of our Senators who are here waiting patiently. Senator
    Scott of Florida.
        Senator Rick Scott. I thank the chairman for hosting this
    and for his commitment to trying to figure out how we continue
    to help people that need help in our country. In Florida, we
    have heard from veterans that agencies continue to make their
    processes more--as they make their processes more digital, it
    has become increasingly difficult for disabled veterans to
    continue to receive the care and services they are accustomed
    to.
        For example, the VA Beneficiary Travel Service Self Service
    System has been a physical form for years, VA form 103542, and
    as the VA made the program digital in July 2020, we have
    veterans who are being told they cannot file this form in
    person yet are unable to use the online BTSSS process portal
    for a variety of reasons, including disabilities that inhibit
    their ability to use the online system, and they are suffering
    from not receiving their benefits in a timely manner.
        Clearly, I think all of us would agree, that has got to get
    fixed. Our nation's veterans deserve the highest quality
    service we can provide. I am proud to join Chairman Casey on a
    commonsense bill, the Veterans Accessibility Act, to ensure
    that the VA and all of its services are accessible for
    individuals with disabilities.
        I want to thank the chair for doing that. Giving veterans
    and people with disabilities a voice to improve accessibility
    at the VA is at the core of this bill and central to ensuring
    that no one is left behind. I have just got a few questions.
        What are you all doing, and what should we do to improve
    accessibility to--or improve accessibility does not negatively
    impact user experience and participation of people with
    disabilities, older adults, and veterans in government
    services. There is no order. Whoever feels comfortable going
    first. Jay looks like you are going to go first.
        Mr. Doyle. Yes. Senator Scott, thank you for the question
    and the comments, so, Service Oklahoma, we are clearly in our
    infancy as we have been offering services to the citizens of
    Oklahoma for a little less than a year now.
        I think when we view a specific population group like
    veterans, for example, I think we look at it from two different
    components. I think No. 1, we look at it from the individual
    products or services we provide, and how can we make sure that
    those are accessible and meeting the needs of that population.
        Just to give an example, we inherited a online renewal for
    a driver's license, and as we decided to work through
    redesigning that product, we found a couple of things. Number
    one, we wanted to make sure that we made it more accessible and
    simplified for all citizens, so we decrease the number of steps
    from 31 to 14.
        I think the second thing that was really important to us is
    the previous process, if you were 100 percent disabled veteran
    in the State of Oklahoma, you actually received your driver's
    license free of charge, no charge to that citizen.
        Our online product actually didn't have a spot for you to
    check a box or to be eligible--to show that you are eligible to
    get that transaction for free, so, we were requiring those
    veterans to actually pay for the transaction, pay for the
    driver's license, and then they had to depend on our finance
    group to go through the process to go back and refund that
    dollars to them whenever they actually felt like they could get
    to it, so, obviously----
        Senator Rick Scott. This was rebates--they were going to
    send to you, right?
        Mr. Doyle. Exactly. One of those mail in rebates----
        Senator Rick Scott. That you never get.
        Mr. Doyle. Exactly, so, we really wanted to be sure that we
    added that eligibility so that they could have that digital
    product at the service level that was promised to them of
    actually getting that free of charge.
        We have made that improvement as we redesign the product,
    and so that is an example at the individual product level. I
    think from a population as a whole perspective, in the State of
    Oklahoma, there is a variety of different organizations that
    offer benefits or services to veterans specifically, and
    obviously other user groups.
        In our mid to long term plans, what we really want to do is
    centralize those locations of those services so that a veteran
    doesn't have to sit there and try to guess which agency
    provides which benefits or which services, and also have an
    idea of what services are actually available to them.
        We want to put that in a centralized location, really
    design it around what their tendencies would be as an actual
    user or as a customer, and also based on their actual persona,
    so, what actually might be eligible to 100 percent disabled
    veteran as an example?
        Really we want to be sure that we are trying to alleviate
    those frustrations, increase that experience, but also make it
    a lot more accessible to those veterans, and all citizens in
    Oklahoma, so they have an idea of what services are available
    and how to actually achieve those services.
        Senator Rick Scott. Okay. Anybody else? Ms. Othman, would
    you like to say thing?
        Ms. Othman. Thank you, Senator, for the question. You know,
    I can speak about individuals who are--veterans who are blind,
    and in terms of the, you know, many of them have lost their
    sight in service to our country.
        When they come back, though, there is such a digital divide
    because they have--prior to losing their vision, they had
    relied on it, and if they did have access to technology or they
    used technology, it was very visual.
        First and foremost, I think one recommendation for
    government is to meet individuals where they are and provide a
    multifaceted approach. We certainly do not support the
    elimination of paper-based applications or the elimination of
    in-person submission because some people are always going to
    need that.
        The technology, you know, you don't wake up at a military,
    VA hospital and all of a sudden you are capable of whatever
    your limitation is, just jumping right past it to be able to do
    TikTok and all of the other things that people have done, and
    so, we need to make sure that the applications and access
    systems are multifaceted.
        There are, though, some advancements with technology that
    we also, I believe, need to focus on. There are things like,
    you know, think of your smart speaker. There are lots of things
    that you can do with it now by voice command that you couldn't
    before and that veterans could benefit from those sorts of
    things.
        Automated phone services. I think, you know, most
    importantly, it is to have multiple avenues of accessing our
    government products and services because each individual has a
    disability that is going to differ from the person next to
    them, and so we want to make sure that we are not going 100
    percent digital and eliminating the manual process that some
    individuals need, or going 100 percent manual where there is so
    many other people with disabilities who cannot access and lose
    access to systems and services.
        Senator Rick Scott. Thank you. I just, I want--I know my
    time is up. I just want to thank the chair for hosting this,
    and I want to thank him for the quality of the individuals that
    he has brought here to give us information.
        The Chairman. Senator Scott, thanks very much for your
    questions, and thanks for working with me on the Veterans
    Accessibility Act, and for being here today. Before introducing
    my colleague from Pennsylvania, I wanted to note for the record
    something I mentioned in my opening, but I didn't list the co-
    sponsors.
        There is another bill, the Federal Agency Accessibility
    Compliance Act, and that is co-sponsored--I am a sponsor with
    the following co-sponsors, Senators Fetterman, Blumenthal,
    Gillibrand, Duckworth, and Sanders, so, I will now turn next to
    Senator Fetterman.
        Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and it is an
    honor to have you as my mentor, and to welcome--thank you, all
    of you here, and thank you for coming, and for me, it has been
    a very personal issue with me, and I am going to show this, and
    then I am going to describe this to others.
        This is my iPhone, and this is a transcription service that
    allows me to fully participate in this meeting, and
    conversations with my children, and interacting with my staff.
    I had a stroke about 18 months ago, you know, and I have lost
    my ability to fully process language, and I like to think I was
    an empathetic person, truly, but until that happened, it--I
    have raised to a whole different kind of level as well, and it
    is profound to know, though, that I never really considered
    that without this kind of technology, I couldn't watch
    television, and I can't imagine if I didn't have this kind of a
    bridge to allow me to communicate with--with other people
    effectively, and, you know, because I live in a political
    environment, I was ridiculed and made fun of because I wasn't
    able to process things sometimes or say things--things, so. I
    am so sorry that I am sure many of you had to go through this
    kind of thing. You know, I was lucky that I was--I was lucky
    enough to go through my life, the vast majority of that,
    without this kind of disability that I have.
        Again, I can't imagine, and how the challenges, and I
    admire, you know, everyone that has to kind of live with these
    kinds of struggles and prevail over them, and the questions
    that I have is really more of an open ended kind of question to
    everyone on the panel, you know.
        You know, how can we become more empathetic, more
    responsive, and more effective Senators to provide the kind of
    support and services that you, anyone in these communities,
    deserve to be a citizen here in our nation? Mr. Westbrook.
        Mr. Westbrook. Yes. I think it just takes political will
    and, you know, the will to become accessible--making it a
    priority, and just, you know, deciding that it is going to be a
    priority, like Ronza was saying earlier, and on the same level
    of security and privacy and all that kind of stuff.
        Accessibility just needs to be another part of doing
    business, as I mentioned in my testimony this morning. You
    know, we wouldn't think about building a building without
    putting in a ramp, you know, to get into the building now, but
    now, we need to think about building websites and digital
    technologies to make them more accessible.
        Senator Fetterman. Thank you.
        Ms. Othman. May I? Thank you for the wonderful question,
    Senator. First of all, I would say hire a person with a
    disability on your staff. Bring somebody in who is going to
    interact with you, because as they spend time--not you,
    personally, you, so thank you very much for your vulnerability
    and authenticity there.
        In general, to the Members of Congress and lawmaking bodies
    across the country, hire people with disabilities so that they
    can share their lived experience and so you can observe the
    challenges and struggles that they are experiencing.
        If, for example, they have a deliverable that they are
    responsible for bringing to you, and the reason why they are
    not able to complete that deliverable is because there was some
    technology upgrade, or a patch, or a security update that broke
    the accessibility of the whatever platform they were using, and
    now they are struggling to provide it to you, there is nothing
    wrong with how they--their ability to deliver on what you asked
    them to do.
        The obstacle is the technology broke or is broken, and so,
    becoming more empathetic, I think, requires exposing yourself,
    and yourselves as a body and individuals, to individuals who
    are experiencing those challenges and then not looking away,
    and then listening to the community tell you how to solve the
    problem, listening to those individuals.
        The census says that 25 percent of the United States
    population has a disability. That number is growing. It is
    continuing to grow, and so, think about that. If in your
    family, there is four of you, one of you is likely to have a
    disability right now, and probably close to two of you will in
    the next 15 to 20 years, and so, you know, listen, observe, and
    experience, and because we are humans, we are going to learn
    from the people around us. We are going to watch it in the
    interaction with people we love, or people we trust, or people
    we respect, and that is going to make a tremendous difference.
        Senator Fetterman. Mr. Chairman, may I request an
    additional--please, Mr. Doyle, please continue.
        Mr. Doyle. Senator, thank you for the question. In an
    effort not to repeat some of what my peers at the table have
    said, I think--for us, I think it is, especially when it comes
    to technology, is technology is always evolving, and so, I
    think whatever solutions we have in place today or whatever we
    are talking about today is going to be very different several
    years from now.
        I think having an approach of continuing getting feedback,
    continually listening to those with disabilities, and how can
    we make sure that we are offering accessibility of all services
    as technology continues to evolve, I think is key.
        I think we take that approach every single day, is that our
    products today are going to be very different than our products
    12 months from now, 18 months from now, etcetera, and so, I
    think having that mindset that whatever we are talking about
    today needs to have that continued dialog and have that can be
    an ongoing conversation, because it is especially with
    technology, this is going to be--look very, very different in
    the years to come.
        Ms. Lichtle. Thank you, Senator, for your statement and
    your question. I 100 percent agree with Ronza. It is very
    important that we listen to and engage with people with
    disabilities. As one of my close friends and proud self-
    advocate says, when you meet one person with a disability, you
    have met one person with a disability.
        Engaging a wide array of people with disabilities, and
    people with the same disability, they are all going to have
    various lived experiences that can inform and shape how we
    create policy and accessible technologies, and that is very
    important for us moving forward. Thank you.
        Senator Fetterman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Senator Fetterman, and I want to
    commend Senator Fetterman's statement about his own personal
    experience, just like I commend and salute the personal
    testimony of our witnesses.
        Nothing, nothing, is more powerful than personal testimony
    when it comes to matching someone's lived experience with
    public policy changes that we seek to enact into law, and
    sometimes that--most of the time that comes from witnesses, but
    sometimes it comes from a courageous Senator who is willing to
    talk about the challenges he faces and what he is doing every
    day, so we are grateful for his personal witness here today.
        We obviously have more questions but because of our
    interlude, as grave as that moment was to be with President
    Zelensky, I know that it didn't allow us to have more
    questions, but we can follow-up with our witnesses to get more
    information, but each of you have helped us in this hearing
    today when we learned so much about the importance of
    accessible technology for people with disabilities as they seek
    to access government services and information.
        This is a very timely issue. Every level of government now
    uses technology, as I made reference to earlier, the front door
    for programs and benefits. Accessible government websites,
    apps, and other technology are critical for people with
    disabilities who need access, access, to veterans benefits, or
    to read a bus schedule, or simply to pay their taxes.
        America's population is aging rapidly, and older adults are
    more likely to have a disability. When Federal, state, and
    local technology is not accessible, that digital front door is
    locked. The testimony of today's witnesses highlighted the
    importance of government efforts to ensure that accessibility.
        Mr. Westbrook highlighted the personal impact of an
    inaccessible government website. Ms. Othman discussed examples
    of inaccessible technology at every level of government. Mr.
    Doyle discussed his State's innovations in accessible
    government technology.
        Ms. Lichtle discussed her city's efforts to make their
    technology accessible. Through the efforts of the Biden
    Administration and the bills that I and my colleagues--I made
    reference to earlier, Senator Scott, Senator Fetterman, and
    others who have co-sponsored these bills, all of these
    proposals will help us make all levels of government technology
    accessible to people with disabilities.
        I also ask unanimous consent to enter a document into the
    record, the VA's most recent web accessibility report from
    August of this year, August 2023. This report details steps the
    VA has taken to improve accessibility of its technology in
    response to bipartisan congressional oversight, so, we will add
    that document to the hearing record.
        The Chairman. I want to make reference to additional
    questions for Senators. If any Senator has additional questions
    for the witnesses or statements to be added, the hearing record
    will be kept open for seven days until next Thursday, September
    the 28th.
        Again, I want to thank our witnesses again and those who
    are appearing today in the hearing room behind our witnesses,
    for your time today as well, so, thanks for participating, and
    this concludes today's hearing.
        [Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

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                                    APPENDIX

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                          Prepared Witness Statements

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                            Questions for the Record

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                           Statements for the Record

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