[Senate Hearing 118-52]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                         S. Hrg. 118-52

                    PROTECTING PRIDE: DEFENDING THE
                    CIVIL RIGHTS OF LGBTQ+ AMERICANS

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                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE
                               
                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

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                             JUNE 21, 2023

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                          Serial No. J-118-24

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         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
         
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

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                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
52-891 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
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                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                   RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois, Chair
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California         LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina, 
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island             Ranking Member
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota             CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware       JOHN CORNYN, Texas
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      MICHAEL S. LEE, Utah
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii              TED CRUZ, Texas
CORY A. BOOKER, New Jersey           JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
ALEX PADILLA, California             TOM COTTON, Arkansas
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
PETER WELCH, Vermont                 THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
                                     MARSHA BLACKBURN, Tennessee
             Joseph Zogby, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
      Katherine Nikas, Republican Chief Counsel and Staff Director
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

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                       JUNE 21, 2023, 10:03 A.M.

                    STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS

                                                                   Page

Durbin, Hon. Richard J., a U.S. Senator from the State of 
  Illinois.......................................................     1
Graham, Hon. Lindsey O., a U.S. Senator from the State of South 
  Carolina.......................................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Witness List.....................................................    45
Gaines, Riley, spokeswoman, Independent Women's Voice, Gallatin, 
  Tennessee......................................................     9
    prepared statement...........................................    46
Lopez, Ximena, M.D., pediatric endocrinologist, Dallas, Texas....     8
    prepared statement...........................................    50
Robinson, Kelley, president, Human Rights Campaign, Washington, 
  DC.............................................................    11
    prepared statement...........................................    54
Sharp, Matt, senior counsel, director, Center for Legislative 
  Advocacy, Alliance Defending Freedom, Atlanta, Georgia.........     6
    prepared statement...........................................    72
Walker, Harleigh, resident, Auburn, Alabama......................     4
    prepared statement...........................................    95

                               QUESTIONS

Questions submitted to Kelley Robinson by Chair Durbin...........    98

                                ANSWERS

Responses of Kelley Robinson to questions submitted by Chair 
  Durbin.........................................................    99

                MISCELLANEOUS SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Submitted by Chair Durbin:

    National Center for Lesbian Rights, statement and attachments   100
    National Center for Transgender Equality, statement and 
      attachments................................................   182
    National Education Association, letter, June 20, 2023........   514
    Transgender Legal Defense and Education Fund, letter and 
      attachments, June 20, 2023.................................   515
    Whitman-Walker Institute, letter, June 21, 2023..............  1007

Submitted by Senator Cruz:

    ``Comparing Athletic Performances: The Best Elite Women to 
      Boys and Men,'' Doriane Lambelet Coleman and Wickliffe 
      Shreve, Duke Law, article..................................  1013


 
                    PROTECTING PRIDE: DEFENDING THE
                    CIVIL RIGHTS OF LGBTQ+ AMERICANS

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 21, 2023

                              United States Senate,
                                Committee on the Judiciary,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in 
Room G50, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Richard J. 
Durbin, Chair of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Durbin [presiding], Whitehouse, 
Klobuchar, Coons, Blumenthal, Hirono, Booker, Padilla, Ossoff, 
Welch, Graham, Grassley, Lee, Cruz, Hawley, Kennedy, and 
Blackburn.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD J. DURBIN,
           A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Chair Durbin. This meeting of the Senate Judiciary 
Committee will come to order. This weekend, cities, including 
Chicago, across the globe will host their annual Pride parades 
to celebrate LGBTQ family, friends, and neighbors. In just a 
short time, a relative short time--a few decades--our Nation 
has made remarkable progress in protecting the rights of LGBTQ 
Americans. Eight years ago this month, for instance, 8 years: 
Obergefell v. Hodges, which made marriage equality the law of 
the land. And last year, on a bipartisan basis, Congress 
codified these protections into law with the Respect for 
Marriage Act.
    While Pride Month is an opportunity to celebrate these 
milestones, today we also remember that Pride began with an act 
of resistance. Back in 1970, the first-ever Pride parade was 
organized to mark the 1-year anniversary of the Stonewall 
uprising. It was a protest led by gay, transgender, and gender-
nonconforming Americans who refused to accept an unjust system 
of laws and united together to change not just America but to 
change the world.
    Today, we draw from that spirit to unite together in 
acknowledging and defending the rights of LGBTQ Americans, 
because right now, extremist politicians across America are 
targeting our LGBTQ youth, along with the medical professionals 
who care for them and the parents who love them. I want to turn 
to a video that shares the story of one of those parents and 
his plea for the leaders in his home State of Missouri to stop 
these attacks.
    [Video is shown.]
    Chair Durbin. Since the start of this year, our Nation has 
seen a wave of anti-LGBTQ bills. More than 525 have been 
introduced in 41 States, many of them specifically targeting 
our transgender youth. Some bills seek to ban gender-affirming 
care, while others are designed to dictate what sports kids can 
play or what bathrooms they can use. But all of them are part 
of the same concerted effort: exercising the power of 
government to target children.
    At the same time, leaders on the far right are promoting 
anti-LGBTQ rhetoric. During this year's Conservative Political 
Action Conference, one speaker was applauded when he declared, 
and I quote, ``Transgenderism must be eradicated.'' We must 
reject this divisive and hateful rhetoric.
    At this point, I'd like to remind our colleagues: Our 
children are listening and they are in danger. In fact, today 
transgender youth are among the most at risk of homelessness, 
depression, and death by suicide. So, when these young people 
who are already struggling hear politicians amplify hateful 
rhetoric that denies their very existence, what message does it 
send?
    We have a responsibility to support all of our children, no 
matter how they identify. This morning, across America, 
families are meeting with doctors and being told they must make 
critical decisions, life-and-death decisions about surgery and 
medical treatment for their children. These are personal and 
family moments, which the parents will never forget. I know. 
I've been there. But increasingly, State legislatures have 
decided that the decisions will be subject to regulation and 
criminal punishment by the government.
    You saw the video of the Missouri father. Does he sound 
like a radical who is trying--anxious to experiment with his 
child's future? Not to me. He sounds like a father who resisted 
acknowledging the real condition of his child until he realized 
he was wrong. I'm sure it was a painful, labored process and 
journey, but he is convinced he did the right thing for his 
transgender daughter. Regulating the age when a young person 
can buy a tattoo or drive a car is one thing, but making a 
decision that fundamental that could affect the life of an 
individual should be viewed differently.
    Brings me to another reminder. As a Member of this 
Committee, we also have a responsibility to engage in civil 
discourse. While spirited debate is a sign of healthy 
democracy, we should not tolerate language that disparages 
anyone.
    I'd like to close by saying it's natural to be confused by 
what we don't know. Today, most Americans don't personally know 
anyone who identifies as trans. So, my hope is that this 
hearing will be a chance to share the stories and reveal the 
truth that, like the rest of the LGBTQ community, transgender 
Americans are our neighbors, our colleagues, our fellow 
citizens. They have the same hopes and dreams that all of us 
share. LGBTQ Americans are asking for no more and no less than 
the full freedom to live who they are. With that, I'll hand it 
over to Ranking Member Graham for his opening statement.

          OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. LINDSEY O. GRAHAM,
        A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA

    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll certainly 
echo what you said about the way we conduct ourselves here. 
Emotional topic, important topic to talk about. There's 
definitely two sides to every story, and there's definitely two 
sides to this story.
    You characterize those people who are concerned about 
minors having puberty-blocking drugs and surgery as far right. 
I don't think that's true. I think there are a lot of people in 
this country very much worried about where we're headed as a 
nation, particularly when it comes to young girls having to 
compete against biological males. Title IX was passed in 1972 
to ensure that women would have a place in college athletics, 
because most of them are non-revenue-generating sports. Some 
generate revenue; most don't.
    But I think most athletic directors would say that it 
certainly makes the college experience better to support 
women's athletics at that level as a feeder program for our 
Olympic teams. There's been a lot of success--the women's 
soccer program--and much of that came from the experience they 
had in college.
    This desire to level the playing field for women in 1972 
was bipartisan. So, now we have an assault, I think, on that 
concept. You mentioned 8 years ago the Obergefell decision 
created a constitutional right to same-sex marriage and 
legislation you talked about. We're not talking about that 
here. We're talking about other things here.
    The father who testified before the Missouri--I guess it 
was the House or Senate, seemed very sincere. I don't question 
that at all. He was worried about something being taken away 
from his transgender daughter. That's a good concept to 
remember. Rights of one should be upheld and cherished, but 
there are limits to the rights of one group versus the other, 
one individual versus the other individual. Your rights have to 
be balanced against other people's rights.
    And here's where I come down on this. You'll never convince 
me that a biological male who swam 3 years on the men's team 
and transitioned for the senior year--that was fair. And Ms. 
Gaines will talk about that. This is going on all over the 
country. Young girls are working hard in their particular 
sports, and on occasion, they're having to compete against a 
biological male who's decided to transition. And the evidence, 
I think, is pretty common sense based that there's an 
advantage. At the Olympic level, you have to take certain 
tests, for testosterone and other tests you have to take, to 
compete in women's sports, because there's a disadvantage.
    And I believe this debate will go into the 2024 cycle. And 
the question before us, one of the questions, is: Is it okay 
for a State to ban transitions of a minor? And I think it is. I 
think the State has every interest in protecting minor 
children. And regarding a medical procedure that is life 
altering, given the evidence we have about how these procedures 
work, I find it curious that, in Europe, they're beginning to 
pause, pump the brakes, and slow down laws that would allow 
minors to be transitioned, because the evidence is suggesting 
that it's probably not the best thing to do, and they're taking 
a cautionary note, which makes America the outlier.
    That's the title of this article behind me. So, today we're 
going to hear both sides of the story. My Democratic friends, 
if they could, would stop every State in the country from 
having laws regarding minors being transitioned. I think that's 
your position, pretty much, on your side. And on our side, we 
believe the States have every right to do that. And in my 
State, they're actually going down that road.
    So, as we celebrate the 1972 Title IX Act reaching 50 years 
plus, we live in a time where the whole concept of Title IX is 
very much at risk. We're not talking about equality in marriage 
here today. We're talking about what are the boundaries, if 
any, in American society when it comes to minor children, and 
what is fair to all of us? Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Graham. We have five 
witnesses today. I'll introduce the Majority witness, then ask 
Senator Graham to introduce his witnesses.
    Our first witness is Harleigh Walker. Ms. Walker is 16 
years old, from Auburn, Alabama. She's here with her dad. She 
has advocated for trans rights and the importance of access to 
gender-affirming care in her home State and nationwide.
    We also have Dr. Ximena Lopez. Dr. Lopez is a pediatric 
endocrinologist at Children's Medical Center of Dallas, Texas, 
and an associate professor of pediatrics in the pediatric 
endocrinology division at UT Southwestern.
    Our final witness is Kelley Robinson. Ms. Robinson, from 
Chicago, is the president of the Human Rights Campaign and the 
first Black queer woman to lead the organization. Ranking 
Member Graham, would you introduce Mr. Sharp and Ms. Gaines?
    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Matt Sharp is senior counsel, director of the Center for 
Legislative Advocacy, Alliance Defending Freedom in Atlanta, 
Georgia. He is the director of the Center for Legislative 
Advocacy and special counsel at the Alliance. In his role, Mr. 
Sharp focuses on State and local legislative matters, providing 
legal analysis and testimony how proposed legislation would 
impact civil rights and constitutional freedom. He's advised 
governors, legislators, and policy organizations on the 
importance of protecting First Amendment rights. He holds a JD 
from Vanderbilt University School of Law.
    Riley Gaines is spokesperson for the Independent Women's 
Voice in Tennessee. Ms. Gaines defends single-sex spaces for 
women, advocates for equality, stands up for women's safety and 
opportunities. Ms. Gaines is a former 12-time All-American 
swimmer from the University of Kentucky, has been a powerful 
voice speaking out against biological males participating in 
women's sports. Ms. Gaines has challenged the rules of various 
sports leagues and travels to raise awareness about the need to 
protect women's spaces and encourage other female athletes to 
join her cause. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Graham. Here's what we'll do 
this morning. We'll first swear in the witnesses. Then we'll 
allow each of them 5 minutes for an opening statement. Then 
Members of the Committee will be allowed to ask 5-minute 
rounds, questions of the witnesses. So, I'll ask the witnesses 
to please stand and raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses are sworn in.]
    Chair Durbin. Let the record reflect that all witnesses 
have answered in the affirmative. And so we can proceed, and 
we'll start with Harleigh Walker. Ms. Walker, the floor is 
yours.

            STATEMENT OF HARLEIGH WALKER, RESIDENT,
                        AUBURN, ALABAMA

    Ms. Walker. Good morning. My name is Harleigh Walker. My 
pronouns are she/her, and I'm 16 years old, from Alabama. I 
want to thank you all for the opportunity to tell you more 
about myself and what it's like to be a trans person. I'm 
hoping to share what my journey has been like and to clear up 
some of the false information that I've heard coming out of 
Congress and State legislatures, including the Alabama State 
legislature.
    There has been so much misinformation shared around what it 
means to be a transgender person and what health care looks 
like for trans youth. Most of what I've been hearing is 
inaccurate at best, or just outright falsehoods misrepresenting 
the steps and care taken by qualified medical professionals.
    Growing up, I had a really great childhood, a loving family 
and friends. As I grew, I just felt like something was 
different for me. Between 10 and 11, I told my parents that I 
believed I was transgender. Nobody pushed me to become 
transgender. No one suggested, forced, or influenced me to 
choose to be trans, because it is not a choice. I knew that 
this was who I was.
    After I came out, my parents were doing the absolute best 
they could to support me. Took me to our local pediatrician. He 
sat down with us and referred us to medical professionals in 
our State that could best treat me. He never once pushed an 
agenda onto me. Instead, he listened to me, his patient, and 
advised all of us on how I could get the best health care for 
my situation.
    The team of specialists that he referred us to were 
incredible. They focused on getting to know me, understanding 
my specific case, getting to know my parents, and figuring out 
how to best care for me as a patient. They advised us at no 
point would they talk about surgeries on a minor. It wasn't 
even something that they would discuss. They never pushed any 
agenda. And instead, one of the things that stuck out to me and 
my parents was that if I ever decided to stop or changed my 
mind, that it was okay, and they would support me no matter 
what.
    This is the opposite of what I hear in the news and in the 
legislatures. It makes me wonder why legislators think that 
they can tell my parents and my doctors that I can't get the 
care I need to be happy and healthy. I want all of you to look 
at me here now and hear my words. I am a very happy 16-year-old 
girl. I have wonderful friends who accept me for who I fully 
am, and I am active on my school's debate team and other 
curricular activities.
    I love to travel. I enjoy concerts and music like Taylor 
Swift and listening to my record collection in my room. I get 
all A's in school, and I am looking forward to college. I am 
not miserable in my life. I am not depressed. I'm just trying 
to be a teenager in America, same as any other teen. But I keep 
having to jump through hoops that other people don't have to. I 
keep having to spend spring break lobbying for my rights to 
exist while my friends are on vacation. I am here in front of 
this Committee instead of on my summer vacation, just to ensure 
that my right to exist is not taken away.
    In Alabama, not one lawmaker was willing to sit down with 
me and my parents to learn about what it's really like to be 
transgender. Instead, these lawmakers pushed rhetoric and laws 
that weren't true and were not logical, saying things like 
transgender people are being groomed by our parents, which is 
nonsense. In support of these laws, my governor has decided to 
say horrible things about me and those like me in my State.
    I would love for you to imagine a moment if these 
statements were made about you or your kids. How would this 
make you feel? What would you do to protect your kids from 
these harmful laws and statements? If you were me, would you 
want to stay in a State where the people who were elected to 
represent you and make sure that you have a safe place to live 
and instead talk about your family this way? I live only a few 
miles from the best college in my State, but I can't even 
consider going there because of the continued attacks against 
me and my community.
    I've had to do a lot of thinking about college. Alabama was 
one of the first States to ban trans health care, but because 
of the new laws that have been passed in States across the 
Nation, and because we don't have the Equality Act to help 
protect me from discrimination, I've had to start looking at 
colleges very far away from where I was born and raised. My 
parents say this breaks their heart. They can't stand the 
thought of their kid being so far away, where they can't help 
me if I needed them.
    This type of discrimination, which will make me have to 
move where I live or work to go to school, is not designed to 
protect or help me. I want you to understand that 
discrimination makes me unsafe. This journey isn't easy. As I 
first began my transition, there was an incredible amount of 
bullying in my middle school, so much so that my parents 
decided I needed to go to online school, not because I wanted 
to, but the bullying got so bad, it was getting close to 
violence, and the school was doing nothing about it.
    We worked with the school, and I eventually got to go back, 
but kids shouldn't feel helpless at school against being 
bullied or discriminated against just because they are 
different. Leaders in our State and country have the ability to 
help; however, so many of them have decided to promote that 
same bullying and discrimination. Despite all this, despite 
being called a demon, a monster, or other despicable things, I 
love my life. I love my family, I love my friends, and I am 
happy.
    I am asking for you to help us stop certain people from 
using the transgender community as a political pawn. Please 
stop attacking our lives for votes or money. These are human 
rights hanging in the balance. Help us communicate that they 
are impacting people's lives and our pursuit of happiness. We 
are just like your kid, just like your neighbor, and you. We 
also deserve the ability to be happy. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Walker appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Exactly 5 minutes.
    [Laughter.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Harleigh Walker. Mr. Sharp?

 STATEMENT OF MATT SHARP, SENIOR COUNSEL, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR 
  LEGISLATIVE ADVOCACY, ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM, ATLANTA, 
                            GEORGIA

    Mr. Sharp. Good morning, Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member 
Graham, and Members of the Committee. I'm Matt Sharp with 
Alliance Defending Freedom. America is a beautifully diverse 
and tolerant country. People from various walks of life with 
different beliefs and values peacefully live and work together 
and care for one another because we recognize the inherent 
dignity and worth that is endowed upon each of us by our 
Creator.
    The Hope Center in Anchorage, Alaska, embodies these ideals 
by serving everyone in the community, no matter how they 
identify. The center provides women and men with meals, 
clothing, and job skill training. And at night, it operates a 
women's shelter to provide a safe place for women fleeing sex 
trafficking and abusive situations.
    One night, a man who identifies as a woman tried to gain 
access to the women's shelter. He was drunk and injured, but 
the Hope Center staff wanted to help, so they paid for a cab to 
take the man to a local hospital to get the care he needed. 
Rather than applauding this act of charity, city officials 
accused the Hope Center of violating the city's gender identity 
ordinance and demanded that men be allowed to sleep in the 
women's shelter just feet away from victimized women.
    This is just one example of how laws and policies that 
promote gender identity ideology violate women's rights, 
endanger children, and erode our constitutionally protected 
freedom to speak and act according to our conscience. Many of 
the Federal Government's rules and positions are driving this 
ideology. We've seen the administration push unlawful 
interpretations of Title IX and other laws that ignore the 
truth of what it means to be male and female.
    These policies demand that schools indoctrinate students in 
gender ideology and even hide students' mental health struggles 
from their parents. They ignore the physiological differences 
between women and men, allowing males to compete in women's 
sports. This exposes young women to greater risk of physical 
injury on the playing field and deprives them of the chance to 
compete, medal, and potentially even earn college scholarships.
    Such gender identity policies require that women's 
facilities, locker rooms, women's dorms, and shelters like the 
Hope Center, be open to men, violating women's and girls' 
privacy, safety, and dignity. These policies are being used 
against students like Liam Morrison, a seventh grader in 
Massachusetts. Liam was punished when he wore a shirt simply 
saying there are only two genders, to peacefully share the 
truth about what it means to be male and female. In punishing 
him, the school mandated that students embrace its views on 
gender ideology and censored any dissent.
    Such viewpoint discrimination is abhorrent to our First 
Amendment, and for years, State and local governments have 
misused public accommodation laws to coerce people who serve 
everyone, regardless of who they are, to speak messages with 
which they disagree on pain of investigation, fines, and even 
jail time. For example, Colorado officials are misusing a State 
law to censor Lorie Smith, owner of website design company 303 
Creative, and require her to create designs that violate her 
sincere beliefs about marriage. Lorie, who's awaiting a 
decision right now from the U.S. Supreme Court, is hoping the 
Court will uphold the freedom of all Americans to speak what 
they believe without fear of government punishment.
    But perhaps the most troubling campaign is the push to give 
dangerous and potentially irreversible gender transition 
procedures to children. Puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones 
put kids on a one-way street toward medical transition. They 
harm healthy bodies, turn children into lifelong patients of 
gender clinics, and irreparably deprive kids of the chance of 
becoming natural parents later in life, all with no proven 
long-term benefits to the child compared with safer mental 
health treatments.
    After seeing the poor outcomes and continuing high suicide 
rates among those who had medically transitioned, many of the 
European countries that pioneered these procedures began 
correcting their mistake. They reversed course to prioritize 
counseling and psychotherapy over drugs and invasive 
sterilizing surgeries. Yet, despite the totality of the best 
evidence in Europe's example, government officials are ignoring 
the science and pressuring States, medical providers, and even 
parents to support the harmful medicalization of children.
    Knowing this, Congress should reject laws and policies like 
the misnamed Equality Act that push a government-mandated view 
of sexuality and identity and that have devastating 
consequences for children, women, charitable organizations, and 
all Americans. They're unnecessary, unjust, and they erode the 
true tolerance of differing views that is the hallmark of our 
great Nation. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Sharp appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you very much, Mr. Sharp. Dr. Lopez?

  STATEMENT OF XIMENA LOPEZ, M.D., PEDIATRIC ENDOCRINOLOGIST, 
                         DALLAS, TEXAS

    Dr. Lopez. Good morning. Dear Senators, thank you for the 
opportunity of being able to speak at this Judiciary Committee. 
I am here today representing myself and not my place of work, 
hospital, or institution. I am a pediatrician trained in 
pediatric endocrinology. I have been providing gender-affirming 
care to transgender youth for more than 10 years in Texas. I 
have also published scientific research that shows that gender-
affirming care improves the psychological well-being of 
transgender youth.
    I am here today to be the voice of my patients and their 
parents, because in Texas and in other States where bills 
banning gender-affirming care are being passed, the lives and 
future of transgender youth are at risk. The parents of my 
patients are debating whether to flee their State amidst high 
financial, family, and social costs.
    The effects of the campaign of misinformation that led to 
these bills are also having chilling effects beyond healthcare 
access. My patients and their parents are suffering from 
discrimination at school, at church, at social gatherings, 
everywhere. Many families unable to leave the State are pulling 
their children out of school and isolating them, living in 
hiding.
    The general public should know that a campaign of 
misinformation has falsely demonized health care for 
transgender adolescents, which is based on more than two 
decades of research and clinical practice and is accepted as 
established medical care by every leading medical organization 
in this country, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, 
the American Medical Association, and many others. There is no 
professional medical association involved in the care of 
transgender youth that opposes this care.
    Gender-affirming care does not involve genital surgery in 
minors, and no medical interventions are provided before the 
age of puberty. Gender-affirming care consists of puberty 
suppression after the onset of puberty, which then may be 
followed by hormone therapy in later adolescence. In accordance 
to the Endocrine Society, the American Academy of Pediatrics, 
and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health, 
this treatment can be medically necessary and lifesaving.
    This care is based on a careful, individualized assessment 
of adolescents with significant and persistent gender dysphoria 
which, when left untreated, predictably can cause serious 
harms, including anxiety, depression, suicidality, and other 
negative physical and mental health impacts. In contrast, 
research has shown that when these youth receive the medical 
care they need, they can thrive.
    This care is not pushed by doctors or parents. It is a 
highly complex decision that involves mental health providers 
that includes assessing the stability of the gender identity 
over time, the maturity of the adolescent to assent to 
treatment. Importantly, the parents I see in my practice, which 
is true of practitioners across the country, come from all 
backgrounds, including conservative and religious ones. My 
patients, who are supported by their parents and receive timely 
gender-affirming care, often have no mental health issues and 
they thrive.
    I also want to speak up on behalf of science and medicine 
and my colleagues. Gender health providers and hospitals are 
being attacked by extremists. Politicians are deciding how 
medical care should look like with disregard of patients, 
parents, science, experts, and legitimate medical societies. 
Banning this care also risks the advancement of this medical 
field and its research. This is a dangerous precedent for our 
society as a whole and harms us all.
    Banning gender-affirming care interferes with the ethical 
principles of medicine, which includes patient autonomy and 
``do no harm'' and to provide the best treatment available. 
Physicians are being left to decide whether they should violate 
their medical ethics or break the law. I ask that the complex 
medical decision of whether to receive gender-affirming care is 
left to parents, patients, and their health providers. Thank 
you for the opportunity to speak and be heard today.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Lopez appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Dr. Lopez. Ms. Gaines?

  STATEMENT OF RILEY GAINES, SPOKESWOMAN, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S 
                   VOICE, GALLATIN, TENNESSEE

    Ms. Gaines. Good morning, Senators. My name is Riley Gaines 
and I'm an advisor for Independent Women's Voice. I recently 
graduated from the University of Kentucky, where I was a member 
of the UK's Women's Swim and Dive Team. I proudly finished my 
career as a 12-time NCAA All-American; a 5-time SEC champion; 
the SEC recordholder in the 200 butterfly, making me one of the 
fastest Americans of all time; a 2-time Olympic trial 
qualifier; SEC Scholar-Athlete of the Year; and SEC Community 
Service Leader of the Year. But all of that to say that it's a 
lifelong journey competing at that level and it's impossible to 
put into words the amount of sacrifice and dedication that it 
takes.
    On March 17th of 2022, my teammates and I, as well as 
female swimmers from universities around the country, were 
forced to compete against biological male Lia Thomas. Thomas 
was allowed to compete in the women's division after competing 
as a member of the University of Pennsylvania's men's swim team 
for 3 years as Will Thomas. We watched on the side of the pool 
as Thomas swam to a national title in the 500 freestyle, 
beating out the most impressive and accomplished female 
swimmers in the country, including many Olympians and American 
recordholders, by body lengths.
    Previously, Thomas had been ranked 462nd at best in the 
men's division the year prior. The next day, I raced Thomas in 
the 200 freestyle, which ended up in a tie. We went the exact 
same time, down to the hundredth of a second. Having only one 
trophy, the NCAA handed it to Thomas and told me I had to go 
home emptyhanded. And when I asked why, which was a question 
they were not prepared to be asked, I actually appreciate their 
honesty, because they said Thomas--it was crucial Thomas had it 
for picture purposes. Thomas had to have it for the pictures.
    I felt betrayed, I felt belittled, I felt reduced to a 
photo op. But my feelings didn't matter. What mattered to the 
NCAA were the feelings of a biological male. In 1972, Congress 
enacted Title IX to end unjust sex discrimination in all 
aspects of education, including college athletics. But by 
allowing Thomas to displace female athletes in the pool and on 
the podium, the NCAA intentionally and explicitly discriminated 
on the basis of sex. Although the NCAA claim it acted in the 
name of inclusion, its policies in fact excluded female 
athletes, which were the very female athletes whom Title IX was 
passed to protect.
    But that is not all. In addition to being forced to give up 
our awards and our titles and our opportunities, the NCAA 
forced me and my female swimmers to swim--to share a locker 
room with Thomas, a 6'4'', 22-year-old male equipped with and 
exposing male genitalia. Let me be clear about this: We were 
not forewarned we would be sharing a locker room, no one asked 
for our consent, and we did not give our consent.
    And I'll set the scene. A swimming locker room is not a 
place of modesty. You're undressing, you're fully exposed, and 
we were forced to take off our swimsuit in front of a man who 
was doing the exact same thing. If nothing else, I truly hope 
how you can see this is a violation of our right to privacy and 
how some of us have felt uncomfortable, embarrassed, and even 
traumatized by this experience.
    I know that I don't speak for every single person who 
competed against Lia Thomas, but I know I speak for many 
because I saw the tears. I saw the tears from the 9th- and 
17th-place finishers who missed out on being named an All-
American by one place. And I can attest to the extreme 
discomfort in the locker room from these 18- to 22-year-old 
girls when you turn around and there's male eyes watching in 
that same room.
    And I can attest to the whispers and the grumbles of anger 
and frustration from these girls who, just like myself, had 
worked our entire lives to get to this meet. And I can attest 
to the fact that, around the country, these female athletes who 
opposed the inclusion of Lia Thomas in the women's divisions 
were threatened, intimidated, and emotionally blackmailed into 
silence and submission.
    But unfortunately, our experiences are not unique. The 
number of female athletes who have been denied opportunities, 
traumatized, or hurt by policies that claim to promote 
inclusion is growing at an alarming rate. I hear these female 
athletes and their parents. I hear from these people who are 
seriously injured, one with permanent injuries that will plague 
the rest of her life, because she was forced to compete against 
a much physically stronger man.
    This is unacceptable, and the integrity of women's sports 
is lost. It's unfair, it's discriminatory, and it must stop. 
Women's rights to privacy, single-sex spaces, and opportunities 
are being encroached on: sports; sororities; locker rooms; dorm 
rooms; shelters; prisons. Some have tried to tar those of us 
speaking up for women's safety, security, and opportunities as 
transphobic or bigoted, and this is untrue. I've heard from 
people within this community, gay, lesbian, and trans-
identifying Americans, that agree females should not be asked 
to step aside and make room for male-bodied individuals, no 
matter how they identify.
    Defending women's rights is not anti-anyone. Believing in 
biology is not bigoted. And following the science that there 
are only two sexes and that there are very real and important 
differences between the two sexes is not hateful. It's fact. 
I'll end with a quote, very briefly, from tennis legend Martina 
Navratilova: ``There will always be significant numbers of boys 
and men who would beat the best girls and women in head-to-head 
competition. Claims to the contrary are simply a denial of 
science.'' I thank you guys for listening, and I truly hope you 
heard my story.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Gaines appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Gaines. Ms. Robinson?

            STATEMENT OF KELLEY ROBINSON, PRESIDENT,
             HUMAN RIGHTS CAMPAIGN, WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Robinson. Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and 
Members of the Committee, my name is Kelley Robinson. I use 
she/her pronouns. I'm proud to serve as president of the Human 
Rights Campaign, our Nation's largest civil rights 
organization, working to achieve full equality for lesbian, 
gay, bisexual, transgender, and queer people across the 
country. Thank you for inviting me to submit testimony at this 
important hearing.
    On behalf of HRC's more than three million members and 
supporters, I've come here today with a single message: The 
LGBTQ+ people of the United States are living in a state of 
emergency. This is not an exaggeration. This is not a 
dramatization. More than 525 anti-LGBTQ+ bills have been 
introduced this year in the States. More than 220 of those 
bills target the transgender community, many targeting 
children, transgender children. And more than 75 of those anti-
LGBTQ+ bills have now become law.
    This includes laws that ban books and censor curriculum in 
the classroom. This includes laws that forbid children from 
being able to safely use the bathroom at school and laws that 
criminalize doctors for providing lifesaving, gender-affirming 
health care. The purpose of these laws is to facilitate a rise 
in political extremism by alienating and isolating LGBTQ+ 
Americans, and the impact of these laws is truly alarming.
    There is now more violence against LGBTQ+ Americans than 
ever before, with mass shootings in our safe spaces, murders of 
transgender people, and threats from the Proud Boys, neo-Nazis, 
and other groups the Southern Poverty Law Center has designated 
as extremist. There is now more anxiety and depression among 
LGBTQ+ children. Data from our most recent survey of LGBTQ+ 
teens shows that these laws are making young people feel unsafe 
and can prevent them from seeing a full future for themselves.
    There are also more conversations among families about 
whether the State where they live is safe for their children. A 
mother of two transgender teens who is deciding whether to move 
from her hometown in Texas told me, simply, ``We have accepted 
that this State is not safe. It is like a war zone.'' In every 
county you represent, in every county your colleagues 
represent, you will find parents and children, teachers and 
nurses, community leaders and small business owners who are 
afraid that the rise in legislative assaults and the political 
extremism has put a target on their backs. Such fear has no 
place in the United States of America.
    That's why, for the first time in HRC's nearly half-century 
history, we have declared this state of emergency. We've also 
issued a guidebook to help LGBTQ+ Americans stay safe as they 
navigate the new anti-LGBTQ+ laws and a report that details the 
impact of these laws for advocates, for policymakers, and for 
the media. I've submitted both into the record.
    Chairman Durbin, Ranking Member Graham, and Members of the 
Committee, we need you to help us answer this state of 
emergency with a sense of urgency. Today, Senators Merkley, 
Baldwin, and Booker will introduce the Equality Act, which 
would make protections for LGBTQ+ Americans consistent and 
explicit across our Nation.
    It's been nearly a decade since this bill was first 
introduced, and in that time, LGBTQ+ members of the military 
have served openly. Marriage equality has been codified in 
Federal law, and more LGBTQ+ Members of Congress have been 
elected than ever before. Furthermore, today, more than 8 in 10 
Americans support comprehensive nondiscrimination laws for 
LGBTQ+ people. It is time for Congress to catch up with where 
our country already is and pass the Equality Act.
    I want to conclude today by saying that although this is a 
state of emergency, I believe that we still live in a land of 
infinite possibility, a Nation that prides itself on progress. 
For every Tennessee, there is a Minnesota, which has recently 
passed a statewide ban on so-called conversion therapy. For 
every Florida, there is a Michigan, which recently became the 
22nd State to make LGBTQ+ nondiscrimination protections law. 
For every Texas, there is a Pennsylvania, which is on the cusp 
of becoming the 23rd State to do so.
    For every Defense of Marriage Act, there is a Respect for 
Marriage Act. And for every extremist, there are many, many 
more Americans who support LGBTQ+ rights. Our Nation is greater 
than all of this hate, and we must take action now to end this 
emergency and secure equality for every American, without 
exception.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Robinson appears as a 
submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Ms. Robinson. We'll now start the 
5-minute rounds, and I'll begin.
    Lindsey Graham is my friend and my colleague. We see things 
differently, and we still get along, which I think is the 
nature of good work in Congress. At least I hope it is. I would 
say to him, it is interesting to me that you cannot put a 
nominee for the Supreme Court of the United States at that 
table, and they all sit there, without that person expecting a 
question as to whether or not they're going to be influenced by 
foreign laws: ``Will you look at laws in other countries, or 
are you going to stick with America?'' And the answer they're 
waiting for is ``I stick with America.'' And now we have 
references to Europe as the standard bearer in terms of where 
America should go for its future.
    Second, if we're called an outlier in that headline, guilty 
as charged. America has always been an outlier: a written 
Constitution for over 200 years, a Bill of Rights that people 
can depend on. We are outliers. No one in Europe can make the 
same claim. So, I would just start with the premise: I love 
Europe, I love the Europeans, but we're Americans. And when it 
comes to decisions as basic as the rights of our individual 
citizens and freedoms, I think we've got a pretty good starting 
point with the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
    I want to ask you, Dr. Lopez--there have been references 
made here to whether or not your profession and what you've 
done with your life for the last 10 years is an outlier, 
itself; that, in fact, that you're not doing what is mainstream 
medicine in America. How do you respond to that?
    Dr. Lopez. That is not true. The type of care that I 
provide, gender-affirming care, is the mainstream standard of 
care, best practice recommended by all the legitimate medical 
societies in the United States and across the world. And as I 
said in my opening statement, we have a clinical experience of 
more than 20 years and a robust body of evidence that supports 
this treatment as lifesaving, decreasing depression and 
anxiety. There are no other studies that support any other 
treatment. So, this is the mainstream----
    Chair Durbin. And accepted----
    Dr. Lopez [continuing]. Treatment.
    Chair Durbin. And accepted by the American Medical 
Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics, as well?
    Dr. Lopez. Correct.
    Chair Durbin. Is there any major professional medical 
organization in the United States of America that opposes this 
form of care?
    Dr. Lopez. No.
    Chair Durbin. That speaks for itself. We're talking about 
science and medicine versus a political spin on the issue. I 
wanted to say I am old enough to remember the debate on the 
Equal Rights Amendment, 50 years ago--the fears, ``If we pass 
the Equal Rights Amendment, women will be serving in combat.'' 
You know what? Women are serving in combat, because they want 
to serve in combat, and we need them. ``If we pass the Equal 
Rights Amendment, we're going to have men and women sharing the 
same bathrooms.'' Have you been to restaurants with all-gender 
bathrooms? I've seen them quite frequently in Chicago, and I'm 
sure you've seen them, too.
    When I listen to Ms. Gaines, I think there is a fundamental 
call for justice in your statement. I understand it. We've got 
to be able to work that out as a nation and not at the expense 
of Harleigh Walker and her future. There has to be middle 
ground here that is fair to both. As far as I'm concerned, 
that's our job on this side of the table to deal with that 
moving forward.
    Dr. Lopez, you said, and I want to make sure it's on the 
record clearly, that accepted medical practice in this field 
does not provide for surgery for youth. Is that correct?
    Dr. Lopez. Genital surgery is not recommended for minors. 
That is the standard of care.
    Chair Durbin. And in terms of hormone therapy, it is not 
administered until after puberty?
    Dr. Lopez. That is recommended in adolescence.
    Chair Durbin. And if you went forward with any surgery at 
any point or even medications that we're talking--has it been 
your practice to involve the parents of the young person 
involved?
    Dr. Lopez. That is the standard of care. Parents--all legal 
guardians or parents have to consent to the treatment. That's 
part of the medical decision-making, is to involve the parents 
and discuss the risks and benefits, like with any type of 
medical treatment. And at the end of the day, it is the parents 
that consent to the treatment.
    Chair Durbin. Ms. Robinson, you've noted the resurgence, if 
you will, of anti-LGBTQ legislation across the country. A lot 
of it's focused on the transgender issue, but not exclusively, 
when we look at the body of legislation. What else is coming up 
in the State legislature that concerns you?
    Ms. Robinson. I mean, we're concerned about bathroom bills 
reemerging, not moving forward explicit nondiscrimination 
protections for the communities, and so much more. And for me, 
what's even more concerning is the violent rhetoric that 
surrounds every introduction of a bill. I mean, it's 
contributing to the fact that one in five of every hate crime 
is now motivated by anti-LGBTQ+ bias. This is an urgent problem 
facing our community and creating fear and isolation even when 
the bills aren't passed into law.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Graham.
    Senator Graham. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Robinson, 
these State laws that you reference regarding transgender, do 
you think they're driven by hate, ignorance? What's causing 
this?
    Ms. Robinson. I mean, we know that the people behind these 
bills are part of well-funded opposition groups. Organizations 
like the Alliance to Defend Freedom are a part of that.
    Senator Graham. Do you think it's driven by hate?
    Ms. Robinson. I think it's driven by a well-funded group of 
opposition.
    Senator Graham. I didn't ask you where they get the money. 
I asked you their motivations.
    Ms. Robinson. I think it's driven by power. I think that 
there is a move right now to control people and our bodies for 
the sake of power. I don't think it's about people.
    Senator Graham. Just for power, right?
    Ms. Robinson. Excuse me?
    Senator Graham. You don't think these are hateful people 
that are doing this?
    Ms. Robinson. I think that this is about power, but I do 
think that as the bills are moving forward, they are creating a 
culture of hate. And I have to say, again, that every time we 
see the introduction of these bills, they are accompanied with 
violent online campaigns that call----
    Senator Graham. Well, I----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. My community----
    Senator Graham [continuing]. I want to----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Groomers and pedophiles.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Tell you that violent rhetoric 
has no place in this debate or any other debate. Ms. Gaines, 
what's the average day like for a young lady trying to compete 
at the level you've competed at, in terms of training?
    Ms. Gaines. So, I started swimming when I was four. I 
graduated college when I was 22. So, I dedicated 18 years of my 
life to my sport, which, of course, includes your sport-
specific training, swimming, but also weightlifting, also your 
diet, also your sleep schedule, not to mention the social 
sacrifices you have to make.
    At the collegiate level, we were swimming in the water 
every single day for 6 hours, 3 of those hours being before 8 
a.m. So, you practice from 5 to 8, you go to class, you come 
back to practice, you swim from 1:30 to 4:30. We ate dinner at 
5 o'clock because we were starving. Eat dinner, do your 
homework, ice your shoulder, go to bed, wake up. You do it all 
again the next day. We were swimming over 10 miles, on average, 
every single day.
    Senator Graham. Dr. Lopez, do you believe that Lia Thomas 
had an advantage in swimming because she was a biological male 
who transitioned sometime late in college?
    Dr. Lopez. I am not a sports medicine physician. I can only 
relate the stand of the Sports Medicine Federal International 
Association.
    Senator Graham. What do they say?
    Dr. Lopez. They do not recommend the exclusion of 
transgender individuals----
    Senator Graham. Do they believe----
    Dr. Lopez [continuing]. In sports.
    Senator Graham. Do they believe it's fair for Lia Thomas, 
who spent 3 years swimming for the men's team, in the senior 
year of college to compete in the women's division? They think 
that's okay?
    Dr. Lopez. As a medical professional, I don't have the 
scientific expertise----
    Senator Graham. Well, let----
    Dr. Lopez [continuing]. To provide----
    Senator Graham. Let me tell you as a person.
    Dr. Lopez [continuing]. An opinion.
    Senator Graham. Let me tell you as a person. You don't need 
a medical degree. This is not okay. This is definitely not 
okay. You work all your life, training as a swimmer, competing 
against biological girls, and you wind up a senior in college 
competing with somebody who, 3 years, swam as a guy, and you 
lose. Ms. Robinson, do 80 percent of Americans support 
biological males competing in women's athletics?
    Ms. Robinson. I can say more than 70 percent of Americans 
believe that the----
    Senator Graham. No, it's a----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Rash of attacks on trans 
sports----
    Senator Graham. No, it's a really----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Is the wrong political priority.
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Simple question. Do 80 percent 
of Americans support biological males participating in female 
sports?
    Ms. Robinson. I mean, what I--I can't verify that, but what 
I can say----
    Senator Graham. Well, I----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Is that----
    Senator Graham [continuing]. Can say it's not even close, 
that there's nothing wrong with you if you have a problem with 
Ms. Gaines feeling cheated. There's nothing wrong with you if 
you have a problem with Ms. Gaines feeling uncomfortable in a 
locker room. There's nothing wrong with you.
    Now, we'll sort this out as a nation, but this idea that 
something's wrong with her because she feels cheated is absurd. 
You have every right to feel that way, and I imagine a lot of 
young ladies do feel uncomfortable being in a locker room under 
the situation you described. Mr. Sharp, what's the purpose of 
your organization and what's your message to America?
    Mr. Sharp. Yes. Senator, we want to protect the freedom of 
all Americans. And that includes our desire to ensure that 
children and women--that their interests are protected, that 
they're not harmed by this gender ideology that's being pushed, 
and that each of us is free to live and work and speak without 
being coerced or punished by the Government because of our good 
faith beliefs.
    Senator Graham. One final question. Ms. Gaines, do you 
think the experience you had in the dressing room is something 
that young girls throughout the country share your views?
    Ms. Gaines. I get messages every single day from girls of 
all--all over the political spectrum. We mentioned this issue 
of being politicized. This is not politics for me. This is a 
real-life issue. And I want to put it on record: I don't 
believe trans athletes should be banned from sports. That's the 
rhetoric that's being pushed from the opposition, anti-trans 
bill bans trans athletes. Trans athletes should not be banned 
from playing sports. Of course not. I just want everyone to 
compete where it's fair and where it's safe, and I don't 
understand how that's overly controversial.
    But yes, especially at that NCAA championships, every 
single girl, at least on my team--being a team captain, I had 
these conversations with my team, and whether it was 40 girls 
on my team, we all felt the same way. I've had the 
conversations. We all felt uncomfortable in that locker room.
    Senator Graham. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Coons.
    Senator Coons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to 
all of our witnesses today for sharing your stories and your 
experiences. Let me talk initially to Ms. Walker, if I could. 
Thank you. As a parent of three children myself, I can only 
imagine how proud your parents must be of your poise and your 
advocacy.
    And thank you for sharing with us that you're a straight-A 
student and participating in school and happy. It is a very 
difficult thing to insert yourself into these very heated 
debates in your home State of Alabama and nationally. And I 
could feel your frustration, explaining that as you search for 
college, you feel you can no longer safely do so in your home 
State. I just don't think that's right. And I think someday 
soon we may be in a place where young people can search out 
their college dreams without having to worry about whether 
they're in a State that affirms them or not.
    You mentioned something about--this is not an ideology 
that's been pushed on you. Could you just help us, for a 
moment, understand? You described consulting closely with your 
parents, then with your physician, to make a decision about 
your future that reflects who you are and how you were created. 
Can you just help us understand that a little bit further, Ms. 
Walker?
    Ms. Walker. Yes. So, like I said, when ever I was about 11 
years old, I was doing research on LGBTQ community, and I came 
across the term ``transgender.'' And growing up, as a kid, I 
always knew that I was different. And so I came to my parents 
with--saying that I think I am transgender. And at first we 
didn't really know what that meant. We weren't super educated 
on the issue because, you know, at that time it wasn't a big 
public issue.
    And so whenever we went to our doctors, they were all 
incredibly supportive, and they never were telling me what I 
should do. The entire first couple of visits were just 
listening to me, listening to my story, who I was and what I 
thought was best for me and what they could do to help me. It 
wasn't, ``You need to start these puberty blockers 
immediately.'' It wasn't, ``You have to do all of this to 
identify as transgender,'' because everybody's journey is 
different, and they just wanted to do what was best for me, and 
they listened to me to make sure that that was what I wanted to 
do.
    Senator Coons. Thank you. Dr. Lopez, one of the things you 
mentioned was the importance of close consultation with parents 
in making a decision about gender-affirming care. Could you 
just briefly speak to the role that parents play in your 
practice in making any decision about gender-affirming care for 
their children?
    Dr. Lopez. The decision to start gender-affirming care is a 
highly complex decision. It's not easy for any parent from any 
background. Most parents are not well informed when this 
happens to them, and it takes a lot of time and effort to meet 
with different types of professionals, mental health providers 
and physicians, to go discuss risks and benefits and potential 
alternatives, which is what should be done for any type of 
medical treatment.
    Senator Coons. And what sort of impact do you see on the 
mental and physical health of your patients in a State where 
there is a ban imposed on that sort of care or on books or on 
discussions in schools? Does that have any impact whatsoever?
    Dr. Lopez. I am very, very worried. That is the reason that 
I am here. I'm here because I am very worried for the mental 
health of my patients. The ones that I see in my clinic which 
are supported by their parents and receiving gender-affirming 
care are thriving. And if that is taken away from them, I am 
sure their mental health will worsen, not only because the 
treatment that helps them is taken away, but also because 
there's a feeling of stigma and discrimination that has been 
created around that. And as I say, they're debating whether to 
leave or hide, and it's really--it's really devastating.
    Senator Coons. Mr. Sharp, if I might, in your written 
testimony, you criticize schools for trying to replace parents 
as the ultimate determinants of what's best for their children 
when it comes to things like teaching about LGBTQ rights and 
issues. But if I understand you correctly from your spoken 
testimony, you also think parents should be barred from making 
medical care decisions about their own children in the case of 
gender-affirming care, as described by Dr. Lopez. Which one is 
it? Are parents in charge of what's in the best interests of 
their children or not?
    Mr. Sharp. Thank you, Senator. We do support the right of 
parents, but our laws have long recognized that there are 
limits to those and that parents can't consent to things that 
can be damaging and harmful. And that's why, when the European 
countries that are looking at the science--this is about 
following the science, and they do so--they find that there's 
not evidence of medical transition producing good outcomes 
versus the mental health counseling. And that's what we want to 
prioritize, so that parents can choose among the psychotherapy 
counseling and other options to truly help children dealing 
with gender dysphoria.
    Senator Coons. Thank you. Dr. Lopez, if I might, just in 
conclusion, your testimony was that the American Medical 
Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics both support 
gender-affirming care as an option for children and their 
parents to choose in consultation with physicians. Is that 
correct?
    Dr. Lopez. That is correct.
    Senator Coons. And how do you reconcile what Mr. Sharp just 
said about the EU with our national medical associations that 
are relevant to this care?
    Dr. Lopez. First of all, no country in Europe has banned 
gender-affirming care. They have taken steps to make sure that 
there is a cautious approach when deciding eligibility for 
gender-affirming care. And actually, the steps they have taken 
are very similar to what is the standard of care practices 
recommended by the Endocrine Society and the WPATH, which does 
recommend a very careful, comprehensive, lengthy assessment 
before deciding that this is the best care for the patients. 
And there is no single research study that shows that 
psychological therapy, as mentioned by Dr. Sharp, is enough to 
resolve gender dysphoria and mental health issues that 
transgender people can have.
    Senator Coons. Thank you. Thank you all for your testimony 
today.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Coons. Senator Hawley.
    Senator Hawley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to the 
witnesses for being here. Ms. Gaines, I want to start with you. 
Thank you for your courage in being here today. Thank you for 
your courage and advocacy for women.
    You have been subjected to an unbelievable amount of abuse. 
You talk about intimidation, threats of violence. You have 
suffered it. I want to put up here a picture, so everybody can 
see it.
    [Poster is displayed.]
    Senator Hawley. This was the welcome you were treated to at 
San Francisco State University just a couple of months ago when 
a mob assembled where you were supposed to speak, I believe--
for over 3 hours screamed, threatened you, barricaded you in a 
room. Do I have that basically correct?
    Ms. Gaines. Yes. I was held for ransom for 3\1/2\ hours by 
hundreds of these protesters, as you see on the board. They 
demanded that I had to pay them money if I wanted to make it 
home to see my family safe again. The law enforcement in San 
Francisco--I respect and I think law enforcement is what's 
brave, not me, and I respect all law enforcement. But the law 
enforcement I was met with in San Francisco, in my opinion, 
failed miserably in effectively doing their job.
    They had mentioned that it was not ideal for them to be 
seen as anything other than an ally to this community. And that 
was made very obvious in the treatment and effectiveness of 
removing me safely from that situation.
    Senator Hawley. Why were you threatened and barricaded into 
a room and held for ransom for hours on end? I mean, what was 
it you were saying that was so terrible?
    Ms. Gaines. I was invited to speak on my experience of my 
senior year in competing against a male. Nothing opinionated 
about what I shared. It was sheerly the exact lived experience 
of what me and my teammates and fellow competitors dealt with. 
And so I spoke.
    After my speech there was, of course, a lot of protesters 
in the room, which I'm totally fine with people protesting. 
It's their right to protest. But what I'm not fine with is when 
it does turn violent in the way that it did, because protesters 
afterwards--they rushed into the room, they turned off the 
lights, they rushed to the front, myself and others were 
assaulted, and that's ultimately when I was held for hostage 
for 3\1/2\ hours.
    Senator Hawley. It is unbelievable. Unbelievable. Thank you 
for your courage in the midst of that.
    Let's talk a little bit about the message that you were 
sharing. And you started to talk about it in your opening 
statement. Just tell us about your experience, because nobody 
can question your experience. I don't think anybody sitting at 
the table, and certainly nobody at this podium, has had the 
experience that you have had.
    You were talking about just the incredible surprise, shall 
I say, to put it gently, of finding a biological man, a 6-foot-
4 biological man, in your locker room and having to accept that 
without being asked about it, without being told about it, 
even. What was that like for you? Tell us about that.
    Ms. Gaines. I--again, we only became aware we would be 
undressing next to a man when we had to see a man undressing 
while we were simultaneously undressing. And so I immediately 
left the locker room, and I went up to one of the officials on 
the pool deck and I said, ``What are the guidelines to allow a 
man into our locker room? I know the guidelines for the 
competition, but what are the guidelines for the locker room?'' 
And he so nonchalantly said back, ``Oh, we actually got around 
this by making locker rooms unisex.''
    And so I'm thinking to myself, in these brief moments, 
``first and foremost, you just admitted this is a male. By 
acknowledging how you had to change your rules to make the 
locker rooms unisex, you acknowledged that we do not share the 
same sex, first and foremost. Second, unisex? Any man could 
have walked into our locker room? Any coach, any official, any 
man who wanted to would have had full reins to, and, bare 
minimum, we weren't forewarned about it?'' And that's the 
traumatizing part.
    Of course, the experience in and of the locker room itself 
is traumatizing. But I think for me, it was so easy for them to 
dismiss our rights to privacy. Senator Durbin, in your opening 
statement, you had mentioned this rhetoric. It's--you had 
mentioned that, ``What message does it send to trans 
individuals?'' And my combat to that is, ``What message does 
this send to women, to young girls who are denied of these 
opportunities? So easily, their rights to privacy and safety 
thrown out of the window to protect a small population, protect 
one group, as long as they're happy? What about us?'' That is 
the overall general consensus of how we all felt in that locker 
room.
    Senator Hawley. Why do you think it is that the NCAA and so 
many people in power seem intent in just erasing your opinion, 
your views, the whole category of women? I noticed that 
recently you just posted this to social media about a message 
that Harvard was sending around, I think, to its swimmers, 
telling them, ``Don't talk about Lia Thomas. Don't share your 
opinions. If you get contacted by a member of the media, then 
refer that to the university. Don't say anything, for heaven's 
sake.''
    Tell us about this. I mean, this has been your experience 
over and over and over. You're told, as a woman, to shut up, 
don't say anything. What's that like?
    Ms. Gaines. That is continually happening. And if we do 
speak up, you're immediately labeled as some--some name. They 
will call you everything under the sun, whether it's 
transphobic, homophobic, racist, white supremacist, domestic 
terrorist. They will throw them all at you in hopes to deter 
you, in hopes to silence you.
    Lia Thomas' teammates, they were forced every single week 
to go to mandatory LGBTQ education meetings to learn about how, 
just by being cisgender, they were oppressing Lia Thomas. They 
were told that they're not allowed to take a stance because 
their school has already taken their stance for them. They were 
told that you will never get a job, you will never get into 
grad school, you will lose your friends, you will lose your 
scholarship and playing time if you speak out.
    They told these girls that if you do speak out and any harm 
whatsoever comes toward Thomas' way, whether that's through 
social media, whether that's physical, mental, emotional harm, 
then you are solely responsible, and you could be responsible 
for a potential death. And you don't want that, do you? Of 
course not. Who would ever want to be responsible in a 
potential death? But that is the emotional blackmail that is 
plaguing this country, especially in universities.
    Senator Hawley. Last question, and I'll ask this and then 
give you a chance to respond, and I'm done with this, Mr. 
Chairman. Let me give you a chance to respond to something that 
Lia Thomas said recently, publicly. She said this publicly: 
``They're using''--this quote, now. ``They're using the guise 
of feminism''--``they'' meaning, you--``using the guise of 
feminism to sort of push transphobic beliefs,'' meaning you 
advocating for women, women's rights, is actually just a cover 
for transphobia. Do you want to respond to that?
    Ms. Gaines. Feminism is not a fluid term. The original and 
the meaning of what it means to be a feminist is to uphold, 
respect, honor, embrace, and celebrate women on our own 
physical ceilings, our own uniqueness. That term has not 
changed. And what this really is, is a male mansplaining what 
it is to be a feminist, which I honestly think is pretty 
ironic, and it's something we've seen before.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Hawley. Since reference 
was made to my earlier statement, I would just like to add 
something for the record. There is no evidence that transgender 
athletes are an issue in certain levels of sports. No 
transgender female athlete has ever won an Olympic medal in 
women's sports, though the International Olympic Committee has 
allowed transgender athletes to compete since 2004--2004. One 
nonbinary athlete who was assigned female at birth won a medal 
in women's soccer in 2021. Next is Senator Klobuchar.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I want 
to turn to you, Ms. Robinson, and talk about something that I 
think is important, given my background as a prosecutor, that 
we don't forget, and that is the attacks that we've seen, the 
unprecedented number of attacks on LGBTQ Americans. We know 
that LGBTQ Americans continue to face violent attacks, and 
there's hateful rhetoric dehumanizing them, and that's one of 
the contributing factors.
    This year, the FBI found that crimes motivated by bias 
against LGBTQ people represented 20 percent of all reported 
hate crimes. I just--this is close to my heart because when I 
was a prosecutor, I'd never even been in, I remember, the White 
House. President Clinton was President and he introduced the 
hate crimes bill, and I got to meet the family of Matthew 
Shepard. They were there, along with the police who 
investigated the case. And I think that was a moment for 
America that kind of flipped how people thought about things 
and realized that he was just pursuing his own life and ended 
up, as the investigators described it, looking like a 
scarecrow, someone thought, pinned to a fence.
    Could you talk about what trends you are seeing in LGBTQ 
hate crimes? And why don't you answer that first?
    Ms. Robinson. Yes. The reality is scary. I mean, we're 
sitting here, 7 years since the Pulse Nightclub shooting, where 
49 lives were stolen, and just over 7 months since the shooting 
at Club Q that stole 5 lives from the community. This uptick of 
violence is real, and you've said it already: 1 in 5 of every 
hate crime is motivated by anti-LGBTQ+ bias.
    The other reality that we know is true is that these bad 
bills targeting the community are often accompanied by 
campaigns of misinformation and lies that sow fear and 
transphobia in communities. The very fact that we can't 
identify Lia Thomas as a transgender woman is playing into the 
fear and anxiety that's motivating these hate crimes.
    I talk to people every day. I talk to pediatricians that 
are being escorted to their cars by armed guards because of the 
bomb threats that they're receiving. I talk to drag queens who 
are being confronted by Proud Boys with AR-15s outside of Drag 
Queen Story Hours. This epidemic is real and requires action, 
both legislative and also cultural, in stopping this--this 
ability for people to just spout lies about our community.
    Senator Klobuchar. Thank you. You mentioned Minnesota in 
your opening remarks, and I think what we've seen--over the 
last few decades, we have seen progress in the fight for 
equality. The bipartisan group that worked on the Respect for 
Marriage Act, led by Senator Baldwin--and we so appreciated her 
work and how she worked with people on both sides of the aisle 
to get that done. But half of LGBTQ adults still report 
experiencing workplace discrimination based on their identity.
    Could you talk about the Equality Act, why it's important? 
And, specifically, are there still places in the U.S. where an 
LGBTQ person can be denied a home simply because of who they 
are? Is that correct?
    Ms. Robinson. Yes, absolutely. Right now, there are only 23 
States that have explicit nondiscrimination protections on the 
books for the LGBTQ+ community. What that means is, I could go 
into a restaurant in Texas and be denied service because I'm 
married to a woman. It means that some members of the community 
can experience discrimination in housing and getting access to 
federally funded colleges and programs.
    This is really a crisis. We need to make clear that, in 
this country, there's not a patchwork of protections based on 
your identity. Every American deserves equal access to civil 
rights and nondiscrimination protections. The Equality Act will 
move forward that into law.
    Senator Klobuchar. And I know there's major companies 
supporting the bill, that there's been a lot of support for it. 
One other question along those lines: Are there still places in 
the U.S. where an LGBTQ person can be denied a loan, even, 
because of who they are?
    Ms. Robinson. Yes, there are.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Very good. Could you talk about 
some of the progress? You mentioned Minnesota, but some of the 
progress that have been made in States, on a State-by-State 
basis, which I think shows how, in fact, there are a whole lot 
of people out there who support the work of HRC and bills and 
State versions of bills like the Equality Act--I know that my 
State, as you mentioned, has been a leader.
    We were a leader on antidiscrimination from the very 
beginning. In 1993, we began protecting LGBTQ people against 
workplace discrimination. We were the first State in the Nation 
to outlaw discrimination based on gender identity. So, could 
you talk about progress?
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely. There has been incredible 
progress for our community. You know, if I look back 20 or 25 
years, 60 percent of Americans opposed same-sex marriage and 
now nearly 80 percent support same-sex marriage, and the 
Respect for Marriage Act is the law of the land. That changed 
because we were able to serve openly in the military. That 
changed because we were able to tell the stories of our lives 
and show what our love looked like. That changed because now 
the majority of Americans know someone who is lesbian, gay, or 
bi.
    We need to make sure, in this fight, that we're not letting 
people's lack of visibility seed into fear, and instead tell 
the stories about trans women. Tell the stories about trans 
men. Show the stories like Harleigh's that show that, at the 
end of the day, these are simply Americans who are trying to 
live. That's what we're fighting for.
    Senator Klobuchar. Okay. Oh, and thank you to all the 
witnesses. I wish I could ask you all questions, but my 
colleagues are waiting. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Klobuchar. Senator Blackburn.
    Senator Blackburn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you 
to each of you for taking your time to be here today. We 
certainly appreciate that. And, Riley, I want to come to you. 
Riley is a Tennessean, and we are so incredibly proud of her 
work and the job that she is doing.
    And one thing that I have noticed repeatedly over the last 
few years is this administration's intent that they continue to 
push forward, erasing the word ``woman,'' their intent when it 
comes to ending Title IX and ending the ability for young 
girls. You know, in Tennessee, I talk a lot about the Lady 
Vols, a great basketball team with such great history, and that 
how important it has been to young girls.
    When I talk to girls that have played on that team, they 
talk about the impact that being able to be a Lady Vol and what 
that had on their life, what that impact was to them personally 
and professionally, and they talk about the opportunities that 
were open to them because they were a Lady Vol. They were a 
competitor, and I say all the time, there are hundreds of young 
girls that are out there at their home beating that basketball 
against the backboard and the black top and trying to hone 
their craft so they can be a competitor, they can be an 
athlete.
    And I was so disappointed that this administration, the 
Department of Education, went so far as to propose a rule 
allowing biological males to compete in women's sports. And 
Riley, you've referenced the impact on young girls that this 
has and how it is kind of defeating not only to when you are 
competing, but when you're preparing. And you reference the 
amount of work that you do, that 5 a.m. swimming, that 5 
o'clock dinner, and the way you're double tracking to be a 
competitor and also get an education.
    So I want you to talk a little bit about the impact that 
keeping Title IX--and what Title IX meant to you, as you were 
that young girl training, hoping to get a college scholarship, 
hoping that you would be an NCAA college athlete. Talk about 
that.
    Ms. Gaines. Absolutely. It's far bigger than athletic 
achievement. And I think that's something that gets lost, 
especially when we only have a few minutes to share our 
testimony. I shared how I didn't get the trophy. But let me 
reiterate, it's not about the trophy. I didn't care about 
holding the tangible object of the probably $5 production 
trophy. It's about the opportunity. It's about the lifelong 
skills and characteristics you develop from playing sports.
    Playing sports, aside from my faith--I put a lot of this in 
my faith, but playing sports has given me the leadership to do 
this, the security to take the arrows, to be held hostage. It's 
playing sports that has given me that confidence. And no girl 
should lose out on that.
    It is far bigger than athletic success or chances for 
opportunity. It is about those transferable skills. There was 
an Ernst & Young study that came out that said 94 percent of 
female, C-level executives, so CEO, COO, CFO--94 percent of 
those females were female athletes. And I think that is an 
entirely true testament of what it means to be an athlete and 
those skills that it provides you.
    And I want to mention, really briefly, the rewrite of Title 
IX is an abomination. It is equating sex to gender identity, 
which means men would live in dorm rooms with women. Men could 
take full--or men would have full access to bathrooms, changing 
areas, locker rooms. Men could join sororities, which we're 
seeing happening. It's happening at University of Wyoming. Men 
could take academic and athletic scholarships away from women.
    In this new rewrite, it's actually sexual harassment if you 
misgender a trans-identified individual. It's sexual harassment 
that if you're in a dorm room and you're a woman and you feel 
uncomfortable sharing this dorm room, if you complain and ask 
to be moved, you're guilty of sexual harassment.
    Senator Blackburn. And you mentioned the transferable 
skills. I think that is so vital. Give me, like, the top three 
skills that you developed by learning to be a competitive 
athlete.
    Ms. Gaines. I think, especially being 2-year team captain 
at University of Kentucky, I would say the top three skills I 
learned were teamwork, communication, and leadership, without a 
doubt. And those are skills that translate to your career.
    I graduated with every intent on being in dental school. 
Actually, what I wanted to do is endodontics. I scored in the 
top percentile of the DAT, which is the dental admissions test. 
And that's what I thought my life direction was going. And 
those three skills I mentioned, teamwork, leadership, and 
communication, would have been crucial to becoming a dentist. 
And now I realize, in my advocacy work, they're just as crucial 
in this field, as well.
    Senator Blackburn. Absolutely. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Booker.
    Senator Booker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you both, 
you and the Ranking Member, for holding this Committee, and 
thanks to all five of the witnesses here. It takes a lot to be 
here, especially two of our younger witnesses. I was terrified 
in speaking in front of crowds when I was both of your ages, 
and it just is extraordinary to me, the raw truth and testimony 
that you've shared with the folks here.
    Ms. Robinson, I just want to start with you, because I 
still live in this little bit of a bizarro world where I have 
arguments with friends. I'm not talking about political 
friends. I'm talking about folks from my community who think 
I'm wrong when I say in most States in America, a gay American 
could post their pictures of their wedding online and then the 
next day be fired from their job.
    I mean, literally, most Americans think that this has 
already been accomplished somehow, that just by being gay, you 
can be discriminated against at your workplace, you can be 
discriminated against in public accommodations, you can be 
discriminated against in getting access to financial means that 
most Americans take for granted. You could be discriminated 
against even serving on a jury. Could you speak to that for a 
moment and just like--I know we're talking about a lot of 
issues here, but that, to me, seems outrageous.
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely. This is very real and why we need 
the Equality Act. What the Equality Act would do is make 
explicit nondiscrimination protections across race, gender, 
sex, and sexual orientation. That's currently not something 
that exists.
    You know, one of the reasons that we did the state of 
emergency is to lift up this crisis and make it clear. 
Especially as Americans are thinking about where they're going 
to go to school or taking new jobs across the country, we had 
to make it clear that there is a dizzying patchwork of 
protections for LGBTQ+ people across this country. In service 
of that, we issued a guidebook that includes ``know your 
rights'' resources, where you can go to file complaints, and 
then also tools to navigate some of these more hostile States.
    Senator Booker. And if I can just interrupt you, because I 
had the privilege of serving with John Lewis, and I'm happy, 
with Senator Merkley and Senator Baldwin, to lead on this bill 
in the Senate, but on the House side, John Lewis was leading on 
this bill. And when you asked him--here's this, you know, 
Christian, southern, Black, elder man, and he would say that 
these issues are so similar to what he was dealing with: the 
same things people said about why they didn't want Black people 
in their restaurant, why they didn't want Black people to marry 
white people, why they didn't feel comfortable with their 
private business--``Why do I have to hire Black people?'' 
People use religious excuses, cultural excuses: ``This is my 
own beliefs--that is wrong. The Bible says it's wrong.''
    It is amazing to me that, growing up with two Black parents 
talking about the struggles of the time, who did get denied 
jobs and promotions, who did see violence and threats, who told 
stories about white people and Black people that were attacked 
for standing up for equal rights for African Americans. Am I 
wrong to draw this basic parallel of human dignity, whether 
it's gender discrimination, discrimination against LGBTQ 
Americans, Black Americans, Muslim Americans? Is there a line 
that goes through about the basic right to be an American and 
have equal rights?
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely. This is fundamentally a civil 
rights issue. The Equality Act has to be signed into law to 
give us all equal access to that American dream. And I think 
the other throughline here is that oftentimes we've been able 
to find ourselves on the right side of these social issues.
    You know, for example, the same things that they're saying 
about trans people today, they were saying about lesbian and 
gay people 20 years ago, and now the Respect for Marriage Act 
is the law of the land. The same horrific things they're saying 
about trans people today--they were saying it about people that 
lived with HIV and AIDS 30 years ago, and now we've 
significantly reduced stigma, and we're on our way to ending 
that epidemic in this generation, in our lifetimes.
    We can make change on this, but it starts by opening our 
hearts and minds and acknowledging, then, the story of America. 
So many of us have faced discrimination. When we've come 
together, when we fought and understood that an attack on one 
of us is an attack on all of us, we've been able to change the 
course of history.
    Senator Booker. I was very moved by your testimony, Ms. 
Gaines, especially because I don't think most Americans 
understand what it is to be an elite athlete. I'm here because 
I was a Division I player--fundamentally, 50-, 60-hour work 
weeks on my athletic skills. The first year I stepped out--you 
might have had this experience yourself--I felt like ``Oh, my 
God. This is how civilians sort of live,'' when you have just 
so much time. You know, you're not getting up and doing 
practices. The experiences you had, and the picture that my 
colleague Senator Hawley showed, is just outrageous, 
deplorable, and unacceptable for you talking to your truth.
    Ms. Walker, what stuns me about what we're seeing right now 
is a lot of Americans don't understand how widespread the 
bullying and the threats and the violence are, not just to 
those of us who are in elite competition, who often face 
dealing with these issues as the NCAA is dealing with them, but 
the widespread nature. I think, Ms. Robinson, in your longer 
testimony, you were talking about the unbelievable--something's 
happened in the last decade, of this rise of threats and 
bullying and violence and murder of LGBTQ Americans at levels 
that are frightening to me.
    And, Ms. Walker, I want to just end with you because I 
don't think most Americans understand what it's like to try to 
just live your truth for the average American that is LGBTQ or 
trans. Could you just tell, one more time, as you've listened 
to the testimony today, just how it feels just to be a 
teenager, living your life as you do?
    Ms. Walker. Yes. It definitely is a struggle, day to day. 
Growing up in a conservative State where there is a lot of 
misinformation spread about what trans people are, what we do, 
and how we're just like everybody else, it's definitely been 
hard for me. Like I said in my testimony, I was severely 
bullied in middle school to the point where I had to drop out 
of public school because there was so much hate every day in 
the hallways, being misgendered, being deadnamed, and it got to 
physical violence at a certain point. And so I had to drop out 
of public school for that year, and the school wasn't doing 
anything about it.
    Senator Booker. Mr. Chairman, thank you for the latitude. 
And again, if this is about protecting our children, the 
stories of Ms. Walker and other trans children--it just needs 
to be heard about what you're enduring. Thank you.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Booker. Senator Cruz.
    Senator Cruz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Title IX was a 
landmark civil rights law. It helped create the incredible 
breadth of women's sports and girls' sports that we see across 
the country. I believe in girls' sports. I believe in women's 
sports. I'm the proud father of two daughters who are both 
athletes. I think participating in competitive sports is a 
wonderful thing for a young girl. I think it is a wonderful 
thing for a woman.
    And I think, unfortunately, today's Democrat party has 
decided that women's sports and girls' sports no longer 
matters, and they are willing to push radical legislation 
designed to destroy girls' sports and women's sports. Ms. 
Gaines, I want to thank you for your courage. You are 
relatively young, but you have demonstrated incredible courage. 
And because you have dared to speak up, you have been 
demonized. You have been vilified.
    I saw when you were attacked by a leftist mob at San 
Francisco State University for daring to speak up. You had an 
incredible record as a swimmer at the University of Kentucky. 
You were a two-time NCAA All-American. You were a five-time SEC 
champion. You're an SEC recordholder and a two-time Olympic 
trial qualifier. But yet, on March 27th, 2022, something 
changed. What happened on March 17th, 2022?
    Ms. Gaines. That's when Thomas and I raced in the 200 
freestyle and, again, resulted in a tie.
    Senator Cruz. And so you tied. What was the consequence of 
tying?
    Ms. Gaines. We went behind the awards podium, where 
typically you're handed your trophy, you're marched out, you're 
named an All-American. And so we go back there, and the 
official looks at both Thomas and myself and says, ``Great job, 
but you guys tied, and we only have one trophy; therefore, 
we're giving this trophy to Lia.''
    And I question this, and I say, ``Why?'' And at first, I 
shortened it in my testimony, but really, he stumbled on his 
words. He didn't know how to answer this. And at first he's, 
``Uh, well, we're just doing this in chronological order,'' to 
which I further pressed, and I said, ``Okay, well, what are you 
being chronological about? Because we tied. And if we're doing 
this off alphabetical order, G comes before T, so what are you 
being chronological about?'' To which this wasn't a script they 
had prepared for him, and he--I actually appreciated his 
honesty.
    He did say, ``We have to give the trophy for Lia because 
Lia has to have it for pictures. They've made that clear. Lia 
has to have the trophy for pictures. You can pose with this 
trophy, but you have to give yours back. You have to go home 
emptyhanded. Lia Thomas takes the trophy home. End of story.''
    Senator Cruz. Now, let me ask you, someone who's competed 
at the elite level: In your experience, is there a difference 
between women and men?
    Ms. Gaines. Of course. I think we learn this at a very 
young age, watching even 12-and-unders play. Going through 
puberty causes irreversible advantage that, no matter the 
training, no matter the diet, no matter any alterable change 
you can make will overcome that male advantage, especially in 
sports like swimming, where lung capacity matters so much. Even 
something as silly as throat size--men have, on average, a 40 
percent larger throat, which sounds like it's nothing, but when 
you're grasping for air, that 40 percent larger throat makes a 
huge difference in athletic success, not to mention height. You 
guys know the differences.
    Senator Cruz. Ms. Robinson, do you agree with Ms. Gaines 
that there's a difference between women and men?
    Ms. Robinson. If the question is about trans women----
    Senator Cruz. I'm just asking, is there a difference 
between women and men?
    Ms. Robinson. What I can say here is that the NCAA has 
rules in place. They've had rules in place for the last decade, 
and when this competition happened----
    Senator Cruz. Okay, I'm going to try again.
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. The rules were clear.
    Senator Cruz. Do you believe there's a difference between 
women and men? It's a yes-no question. Do you believe there's a 
difference?
    Ms. Robinson. Well, I think that we're talking about this 
case with the NCAA----
    Senator Cruz. No, I'm asking a question. Do you believe 
there's a difference between women and men?
    Ms. Robinson. I----
    Senator Cruz. Most people could answer this very simply. 
I'm curious if you're willing to do so.
    Ms. Robinson. Oh, absolutely. I'm just putting it into the 
context of this----
    Senator Cruz. Is that a yes?
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Conversation that we're having. 
I think that there are definitions----
    Senator Cruz. Is----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Related to sex----
    Senator Cruz. Is that a----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. But I also think that when 
we're----
    Senator Cruz. And so I'm trying to get a yes or no. I'm not 
trying to get a speech.
    Ms. Robinson. Oh. I'm----
    Senator Cruz. Is there a difference between women and men?
    Ms. Robinson. I think that there are definitions for 
biological sex, which----
    Senator Cruz. Okay, so you're not----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Is different----
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. Answering that.
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Than gender.
    Senator Cruz. Let me ask you this question, then. Why do 
women's sports exist? If you can't define a difference between 
women and men, why not abolish women's sports and just tell 
little girls to swim with little boys and see who wins?
    Ms. Robinson. Oh, I'm simply saying that sex is different--
--
    Senator Cruz. My question----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Than gender. And I----
    Senator Cruz. Why do----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Do believe that women's sports--
--
    Senator Cruz. Why do women's sports exist?
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Have a great value. I mean, 
Senator, I'll tell you right now----
    Senator Cruz. Ms. Robinson, please answer the question I'm 
asking you.
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely.
    Senator Cruz. Why do women's sports exist?
    Ms. Robinson. I think that there are so many positive 
benefits to sports. I mean, we've----
    Senator Cruz. But why----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Talked about it----
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. Have a separate category----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Here today.
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. For women? If there's no 
difference between women and men, why have women's sports?
    Ms. Robinson. I'm saying that there's a difference between 
sex and gender and that the NCAA has rules in place, which they 
have for the last----
    Senator Cruz. So, Mr. Chairman----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Decade, which determine that----
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. I would like to enter into----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Related to participation.
    Senator Cruz [continuing]. The record, an article from Duke 
Law called, ``Comparing Athletic Performances: The Best Elite 
Women to Boys and Men.'' And it goes through examining in 2017 
the top records for women in the world in various track and 
field events. So, for example, in the 100 meter, the top record 
for women in the world was 10.71 seconds. Now, that record, for 
the number one woman in the world in 2017, was, in the year 
2017, broken by 124 boys under 18. In that same year, the 
record for the number one competing woman in the 100-yard, 100-
meter dash in the world was broken by a total of 2,474 men.
    If the radical Democrat agenda to destroy girls' sports and 
women's sports succeeds, little girls will not have a chance to 
compete. So, I ask unanimous consent that this article be 
entered into the record.
    Chair Durbin. Without objection.
    [The information appears as a submission for the record.]
    Chair Durbin. Senator Padilla.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Colleagues, a recent 
Trevor Project poll found that 56 percent of LGBTQ+ youth 
respondents could not access the mental health services that 
they need. And this Committee and others have discussed the 
state of mental health in America. It was in a crisis before 
the pandemic. It's been exacerbated by the pandemic and most 
acutely within the LGBTQ+ community and most acutely amongst 
its youth. So, you couple these statistics with the country's 
lack of protections for the LGBTQ+ community, and it's clear to 
me that we need to do more to address these mental health 
disparities.
    Questions for Dr. Lopez: Can you discuss the factors that 
contribute to these higher rates of mental health challenges? 
And what would be the impact of tailoring and providing more 
mental health services and support for LGBTQ+ youth?
    Dr. Lopez. It is very well known in the literature that 
discrimination is a main determinant of poor mental health 
outcomes in LGBT youth. There is no question that 
discrimination, as has been discussed, against LGBT youth has 
increased over the last few years. And there's research to show 
that that is a driver of worsening mental health in LGBT youth. 
So, mental health is needed in LGBT youth, for sure, but we 
also need to work on the social aspects that drives that mental 
health issue, which is discrimination.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you. And it seems that, 
unfortunately, as we should be providing more and stronger 
protections and support, too many jurisdictions across the 
country seem to be going backward and putting LGBTQ+ youth in 
more vulnerable and dangerous circumstances.
    You know, the next question I have is not a technical one, 
not a deep policy question, but I want to talk to you for a 
minute, Harleigh. Appreciate you being here today and your 
courage to speak up and to share. You shared a lot with the 
Committee and I'm glad you're sacrificing a bit of what should 
be your summer vacation to be here.
    You've talked about the love and support you received from 
your parents and doctors and friends. For any of your peers who 
may be watching today, thinking about maybe how to talk to 
their parents, how to talk to their friends, maybe not in as 
welcoming or comforting of a circumstance as you were blessed 
to have, what words of encouragement would you offer to them, 
given your experience and given your advocacy?
    Ms. Walker. The main thing I would want to convey to them 
is that they are not alone. Whenever I started my journey, I 
had just entered middle school, and as I said, I had to move to 
online school because of bullying. And I was in a very dark 
place and I felt very alone. I had no friends. I just had my 
parents, who were luckily supportive. But, you know, as a 
child, you feel so isolated.
    And so one of the things that helped me was getting 
involved in my community. My parents took me to our local 
PFLAG, which is Parents and Friends of Lesbians and Gays. It 
was a group of people who--which is a roundtable of queer 
members of the community and allies who just came together to 
share their experiences and just have a good time.
    And I was scared going to that meeting but as soon as I got 
there, I felt so welcomed. And it was the first time I did not 
feel alone. And so that's why I'm here today, to tell those 
trans kids that they are not alone, that I accept them and so 
many other people accept them for who they are, because it's 
not a choice, and that regardless of what people say to you, 
just remember who you are and stick to that.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you.
    Ms. Walker. Thank you.
    Senator Padilla. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Padilla. Senator Lee.
    Senator Lee. Thank you. Ms. Gaines, I'd like to start with 
you, if I could. And thanks again for sharing your story. I've 
been touched and saddened to hear of the misogynistic and 
discriminatory treatment that you received from the NCAA, which 
I regard as nothing short of shameful. But you've handled it 
with grace and courage, and I appreciate that example that 
you're setting for so many women and girls across America.
    Your story reminded me of a letter that I received from a 
constituent a couple of years ago, a constituent who explained 
to me her own story with girls' and women's athletics. She 
explained that she would never have been able to go to college, 
never would have had a chance at a college education, had she 
not done so under an athletic scholarship. And while she was in 
college, she became the most dominant female track athlete in 
the State of Utah. And she was a two-time All-American sprinter 
who held the 100-meter record at BYU for 22 years.
    She told me that even at the height of her collegiate year, 
as one of the top female sprinters in the country, she would 
sometimes go to help her dad, who coached high school track, 
and she would go to those events with her dad. She said even 
then, the high school boys could beat her because of biological 
differences between people who are born male and people who are 
born female. So, what would you say to all the high school 
female athletes who worry about losing potential college 
scholarships, to say nothing of the world in which we now face 
name, image, likeness, endorsements, things like that--all the 
things that they might forgo as a result of having to compete 
for scholarships, endorsements, and notoriety with people who 
were born male?
    Ms. Gaines. My message would be that it's not transphobic 
to acknowledge how women deserve respect, how we deserve 
safety, how we deserve fairness, we deserve keeping our 
dignity. It's not transphobic to say that. It's not transphobic 
to say that you can't change your sex. Sex is down to a 
chromosomal level, and that's not something that can be 
changed, and that matters in sports. Your biology, that--sports 
is the one area where your sexual chromosomes matter.
    And again, I'll echo Harleigh's message, as well, is: 
You're not alone. The overwhelming majority of people regarding 
this issue of fairness in women's sports agree that having men 
in women's sports is wrong and that it's unfair and it's a 
violation to, again, our privacy and rights to safety as women. 
So, that would be my message: to be bold, be empowered, and 
before anything, stand firm in the truth, biological truth.
    Senator Lee. Are you transphobic, Riley?
    Ms. Gaines. That is simply not true.
    Senator Lee. Do you hold anything against transgendered 
persons?
    Ms. Gaines. Absolutely not. I agree Lia Thomas was 
following the rules set in place by the NCAA, and I have no 
problem with Lia Thomas. I do believe there's a bit of 
selfishness and narcissism and entitlement surrounding this 
person in regards to the utter disregard that Thomas displayed 
for us in these situations, but I have no animosity toward 
Thomas. My problem is the NCAA. My problem is the Biden 
administration pushing a rewrite of Title IX. That is my 
problem, and that's why I'm here. That's why this issue has 
become political for me, because I realize that legislation is 
the way you curb these things.
    I can't believe it's come to this, but I have no hate in my 
heart towards anyone, even the protesters who mobbed me. The 
first thing that I did was prayed for them. I saw the 
soullessness, the vengeance, the violence in their eyes. And 
they do it in the name of love and inclusion and acceptance and 
tolerance and welcoming and embracing diversity. But they did 
not embrace my diverse thought. That, to me, was what hate 
looked like. Nothing in my heart is hateful.
    Senator Lee. How about the NCAA? Did the NCAA embrace your 
diversity? Tell me what attempts that the NCAA made to 
accommodate you and other female swimmers who felt 
uncomfortable sharing an open locker room with a biological 
male.
    Ms. Gaines. Nothing. They actually made us feel guilty for 
feeling as if we were uncomfortable. Time and time again, 
that's what we saw. There was even a group of girls who 
undressed in the janitor's closet. They changed clothes in the 
janitor's closet because they felt more comfortable undressing 
in that environment than they did undressing next to someone 
with male gaze.
    Senator Lee. And were they doing that because they were 
transphobic?
    Ms. Gaines. They were doing it because they were violated.
    Senator Lee. Tell me how they were violated.
    Ms. Gaines. I think 2, 3, 4 years ago, if a man claims the 
identity of simply saying they are a woman, walks into a locker 
room, a DA would follow this man into a locker room, arrest 
him, and he's charged with sexual harassment, voyeurism, 
indecent exposure, and the list goes on. But this was 
celebrated. This was encouraged.
    Lia Thomas was then nominated for NCAA Woman of the Year, 
which is an award that I was also nominated for. But when I saw 
the full list of nominees and saw that NCAA Woman of the Year 
was not exclusive to just women, the award was immediately 
devalued and meaningless to me. That's how they were honoring 
this, rather than making us feel reassured in our feelings that 
this was wrong.
    Senator Lee. When you accommodate men, time and time again, 
refusing to accommodate women, we call that misogyny. Thank 
you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator Lee. Next up is Senator 
Blumenthal.
    Senator Blumenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Robinson, 
your testimony is really powerful on the issue not only of 
anti-LGBTQ+ legislation but also the threats of violence and 
hate crimes. And you describe this entire emergency as a result 
of a coordinated moral panic. The reference to this emergency 
is unprecedented in the 50 years of the Human Rights Campaign, 
which itself is noteworthy.
    I wonder if you could describe the links here that make it 
coordinated, that create the threat of violence, the feeling 
that this community is, to quote you, ``constantly under 
threat,'' and what relation it is to gun violence in particular 
at Pulse and Club Q. You refer to both of those. If you could 
just expound on your testimony a little bit in that regard.
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely. And I think that, you know, those 
real-life examples of Pulse and Club Q show that this violent 
political rhetoric plus easy access to firearms equals real-
life harm, violence, death to my community. And while we're 
here talking about the issues that are truly affecting 
children, their health, and their safety, the number one thing 
we should be talking about is gun violence. That is the number 
one killer of America's youth.
    But instead, we are putting a target on the backs of trans 
kids. And when it comes to where this is coming from, we don't 
have to guess. I mean, the American Principles Project--their 
executive director said that they are targeting trans kids to, 
quote, ``score political points.'' And every time we see these 
waves of anti-LGBTQ+ legislation move through States--over 500 
bills just this year--we see it accompanied by campaigns of 
hate and bias online.
    In Florida, when the ``Don't Say Gay''--or trans bill was 
moving through, you saw a 400 percent increase in language of 
groomers online targeting the LGBTQ+ community. Let's be clear 
that this is instilling fear in people. This is perpetuating 
transphobia and homophobia that has real-life impact and harm 
on the lives of my community.
    Senator Blumenthal. Would you say that a lot of the 
rhetoric, the legislation, in a sense gives license to the 
violence or encourages it implicitly, maybe without directly 
intending it, but nonetheless creates an atmosphere where the 
violence is more likely to flourish?
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely. You know, there was a speaker at 
CPAC that called for the, quote, unquote, ``eradication of 
transgender.'' That sort of violent language takes away the 
humanity of people that look like me and people that experience 
the world like me, LGBTQ+ people across this country. It makes 
us seem less human. When you couple that with trying to censor 
education, remove our stories from schools, trying to 
criminalize or vilify loving parents for affirming their gender 
identity, this is creating a culture of fear and harm that's 
directly targeted at some of our most vulnerable: the LGBTQ+ 
community and trans youth.
    We should all see what's happening for the moral crisis 
that it is and know that because the attack is coming to trans 
youth today doesn't mean that that target can't be placed on 
someone else's back next week. This is a threat not only for 
the trans community, but for us all.
    Senator Blumenthal. I think that's a really important 
point, that we are all at risk of this violence. If the LGBTQ+ 
community can be targeted in this way, anyone can be targeted. 
Anyone who's different is at risk and this community right now 
is the most vulnerable, but others can be targeted as well.
    Senator Hirono and I have helped to lead hate crimes 
legislation, which actually has taken as one of its principal 
causes to stop exactly this kind of violence. And so I want to 
thank you for your leadership and look forward to working with 
you in the future. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Kennedy.
    Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to all 
of our witnesses here today. Ms. Robinson, I want to follow up 
by trying to understand your answer to one of Senator Cruz's 
questions, and this is really a question, not a suggestion. Do 
I understand your position to be that there are two sexes but 
there can be more than two genders?
    Ms. Robinson. I wouldn't even say two, and, you know, we've 
got Dr. Lopez here, as well, but there's also the definition of 
intersex. I think that often, in these conversations, we're 
conflating sex and gender. And I do want to affirm here that 
trans women are women. That is their gender.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. But I'm trying to understand. Do you 
make a distinction between sex and gender?
    Ms. Robinson. Yes, sir.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. Explain that, just--do you think 
there are more than two sexes?
    Ms. Robinson. I believe that there's a definition for 
intersex, as well, that I want to acknowledge, but sex is 
assigned----
    Senator Kennedy. Okay, so----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. At birth, and----
    Senator Kennedy. I'm just trying to understand. I'm 
thoroughly confused. So, you're born--I'm talking about 
biology--male, female, and what else?
    Ms. Robinson. I believe that intersex is also acknowledged, 
but----
    Senator Kennedy. Intersex?
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Again, I'm not a doctor, here. 
What I can say----
    Senator Kennedy. And what does intersex mean?
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Is that there's a difference 
between sex and gender, and I think----
    Senator Kennedy. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. In these conversations we're 
conflating the two.
    Senator Kennedy. Well, but I want to start with sex. Okay. 
There's male, there's female. When a baby's born, before the 
baby has had time to even have a sense of self, there's male, 
female, and intersex? There's a third sex?
    Ms. Robinson. I believe that is true, but I would defer to 
Dr. Lopez, as I'm not a physician.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. And how many genders are there?
    Ms. Robinson. I think that gender is expansive, and the 
definitions are always growing. You know, today, I can tell 
you----
    Senator Kennedy. More than five?
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. I talk to young people----
    Senator Kennedy. More----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. That talk about nonbinary as----
    Senator Kennedy. More than five?
    Ms. Robinson. I think that gender is not a binary, is what 
I'm trying to say.
    Senator Kennedy. But are there more than five genders? I'm 
just trying to understand. Are there more than five genders?
    Ms. Robinson. Well, I mean, I think that there was a time 
where women wearing pants didn't feel like it was appropriate 
for their gender, and yet I'm wearing pants today.
    Senator Kennedy. Are there----
    Ms. Robinson. I think that----
    Senator Kennedy. If you could just answer----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. There are ways that we express--
--
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. My question.
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Our gender----
    Senator Kennedy. Are there more----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. That are expansive.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Than five genders? Are there 
more than five?
    Ms. Robinson. I wouldn't subject myself to naming how many 
genders there are, but what I can say is that----
    Senator Kennedy. Is there an infinite number?
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Gender is a reflection--excuse 
me?
    Senator Kennedy. There's an infinite number of genders?
    Ms. Robinson. I think, depending on your culture, there are 
a lot of different genders that exist. And I can also say that 
it's a term that's evolving. If you look at young people today, 
they really don't lean into the binary of only woman and man. 
So, I think that it's incumbent upon us not to legislate on 
this but to create space for them to explore what their 
identities are, what their gender identities are.
    Senator Kennedy. Let's get back to athletics. I think I 
understand what you're saying. There are three sexes: male, 
female, and intersex.
    Ms. Robinson. I believe that to be true. But again, I'm not 
a physician, so I----
    Senator Kennedy. And there are an infinite number of 
genders, because gender is a mental state.
    Ms. Robinson. Gender is about expression, and I think that 
there are a variety of ways that you can express your gender.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. So, there's infinite number. All 
right. Let's go back to the biology. Male, female, boy, girl. 
Okay? Biologically, do males have an advantage over females, 
biologically, in sports?
    Ms. Robinson. Again, I'm not a physician, and I can't speak 
to that.
    Senator Kennedy. What's your real-world experience?
    Ms. Robinson. It depends. I mean, there are some people who 
are born male that I'm faster than if I were to sprint against 
them, and some that I'm not. Some males are taller----
    Senator Kennedy. So, you don't believe that----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Than some women, and some----
    Senator Kennedy. You don't----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. That are shorter.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. Believe that a biological 
male has a physical advantage in sports over a biological 
female?
    Ms. Robinson. Not as a definitive statement.
    Senator Kennedy. Give me an example. Well, no, I don't 
think--how many female members of the NBA do you see?
    Ms. Robinson. Well, I can say that, you know, there's been 
this news article about men that think that they could beat 
Serena Williams in tennis, right? That they think that they 
could actually score a point on her. And it's just not the 
case. She is----
    Senator Kennedy. Ms. Gaines----
    Ms. Robinson [continuing]. Stronger than that.
    Senator Kennedy [continuing]. What's your experience been? 
Male, female?
    Ms. Gaines. Both Serena and Venus lost to the 203rd-ranked 
male tennis player, which--they're phenoms for women. My 
experience? My husband--he swam at University of Kentucky, as 
well. In terms of accolades and in terms of national ranking, I 
was a much better swimmer than him. He could kick my butt any 
day of the week without trying.
    Senator Kennedy. Okay. I just think, Ms. Robinson--I'm 
trying to understand where you're coming from. I think you lose 
a lot of credibility when you don't concede that a biological 
male has physical advantages over a biological female. I mean, 
I just think that's a proven fact, and you really hurt your 
credibility.
    I understand you want the world to be a better place. I do, 
too. And I don't think people ought to be discriminated against 
because of an immutable characteristic. I don't. And I think 
that everybody ought to be free to be themselves. And what you 
do in your bedroom or what I do in my bedroom with a consenting 
adult is nobody's business.
    But if what I do in my bedroom with a consenting adult--if 
I decide I want to tell somebody's child about it, then other 
people have rights, too. And I think parents have rights. And I 
think biological females have rights to be able to compete 
fairly in sports. So, I really think you hurt your credibility 
when you refuse to acknowledge that biological males have an 
advantage over biological females. It kind of makes me wonder 
about all your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Kennedy. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
    Ms. Robinson. What I am trying to say is that there is not 
a definitive advantage in all cases. Sir, I don't know if you 
believe that you could beat Serena Williams in tennis, but I 
probably think that that's not the case. There are not all 
cases where all men are physically superior to all women.
    And at the end of the day, in this conversation, we're not 
talking about that. We're talking about trans women who are, in 
fact, women, who deserve to play in a gender that matches their 
sports, who deserve all the benefits that Ms. Gaines is talking 
about. And as a cisgender Black woman, I can say definitively 
that my womanhood is not threatened by a transgender person 
asserting hers, as well.
    Chair Durbin. Senator Hirono.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank all of the 
persons who are testifying today. For Ms. Robinson, do you know 
what percentage of women's sports consists of transgender 
participants?
    Ms. Robinson. It is a very small number. I can say that 
there are about--the Williams Institute has estimated about 
300,000 trans youth, total, in the United States. That's less 
than a percentage of a percent. And when some of these laws 
pass in places like Utah, they are putting into place broad 
sports bans that ban kids from playing as early as the age of 5 
years old. In Utah, specifically, when the governor explored 
more about that piece of legislation, he last year called it 
cruel because it actually only impacted four trans students in 
the State and only one trans girl. So, we know that there's a 
very small percentage of trans women that are actually playing 
in sports that these bills are targeting.
    Senator Hirono. So, you know, it's--I hardly know what to 
say, because I would think that human rights belong to everyone 
and that trans rights are human rights. And I think we must do 
more to ensure that the trans community and the LGBTQ+ 
community, more broadly, can live as their authentic selves, 
free from the threat of and real violence or discrimination.
    So, Ms. Walker, thank you very much for being here. Do you 
play in sports? Do you participate or compete in sports?
    Ms. Walker. I do not.
    Senator Hirono. So, would you say that most--I would think 
that most transgender girls are not competing in sports, but 
they just want--or you just want to be able to be free from 
these kinds of totally discriminatory laws that does not allow 
you to be yourself.
    Ms. Walker. Yes. That's definitely the case. Whereas I 
don't personally compete in sports, so I can't speak for the 
trans kids that do compete in sports, I will say that it's even 
more scary for us in situations like that, because, can you 
imagine somebody like me competing, having to compete in a 
men's sports team? That would be detrimental to my mental 
health, and I would feel unsafe.
    And so I think things like the Equality Act are necessary 
to protect these trans people from discrimination, because we 
have the right--I have the right as a woman, just as Ms. Gaines 
has the right as a woman, to compete in women's sports. And 
just because I wasn't born in a female body doesn't mean I 
don't have that same right.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. And as long as we're focusing on 
sports, of course, we know that there are huge, huge 
differences in so-called male sports and the support that's 
given to male sports and so-called male athletes versus women's 
sports. And, you know, there's all kinds of data about the 
discrimination in these so-called male and so-called female 
sports.
    In fact, one of my colleagues who is very much opposed to 
transgendered persons competing in female sports said, if we 
allow transgender persons to compete against females that we're 
going to see coaches encouraging boys to become transgender to 
compete against girls. Ms. Robinson, is this what's happening 
in sports?
    Ms. Robinson. No, it is not. There is an incredible process 
that people have to go through to come out that can be painful, 
that's about exposing yourself to your family, to your friends, 
in different ways. I can't imagine someone enduring all of that 
simply to play a sport. These are people that are only trying 
to live, as Harleigh has told us, to play sports that match 
their gender identities so that they can get all the positive 
benefits that we've talked about: self-esteem building, self-
confidence, the ability to work within a team. I just can't see 
why we would deny that opportunity to children as young as 5 
years old.
    Senator Hirono. One last question. So, we have all of these 
laws, ``Don't Say Gay,'' and other kind of laws. Maybe this is 
a question for Dr. Lopez. As you work with the transgender 
community, LGBTQ persons, what do these kinds of bans on 
books--what kind of impact do they have on the persons that you 
treat?
    Dr. Lopez. Well, one has to remember that transgender 
children and adolescents are already a vulnerable population. 
They have to make an extra effort compared to non-transgender 
children to socialize, to feel like they belong, to participate 
in sports, which they have the right to, as Harleigh said. And 
if there's already a climate of, ``You can be targeted.'' ``You 
will be treated differently.'' These kids tend to isolate 
themselves.
    I have patients who have no friends. Like, zero friends. I 
have patients that just do online or home school because 
they're terrified about going to school, let alone participate 
in sports. That can be terrifying for them.
    And I have one patient that I saw last week that the mom 
told me--12-year-old who plays soccer, and it's not 
competitive, it's just with the school. And she told me, ``This 
bill is going to be devastating for my child. I will have to 
move out of State if the bill that bans sports participation 
passes, because that has kept my child alive. That was the 
thing that helped to engage and feel accepted with peers.'' So, 
yes, all this climate is really harming the social life and the 
growth of my patients, of these kids.
    Senator Hirono. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you, Senator. Senator Whitehouse.
    Senator Whitehouse. Thanks very much. Appreciate this 
hearing, Chairman, and I appreciate the panel being here. Dr. 
Lopez, I don't know if--I had my own hearing in another 
Committee that I chair, so I'm coming late to this one. I 
apologize if this is a repeat question, but I wonder if there 
is an age or a phase of life when young people begin to 
experience some uncertainty about their gender identity.
    Dr. Lopez. There is no specific age. People can experience 
that their gender is different as young as two, when they start 
talking. But by adolescence, most people who identify as 
transgender do realize that their gender is different. And very 
often, puberty is a trigger to realize, ``This is not my 
gender,'' because they're experiencing physical changes that do 
not feel consistent with them and their gender.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. So, I think a lot of people's 
experience is that puberty is a rather hard time of life for a 
lot of kids, entirely apart from gender identity. Is that 
supported by any evidence? And that being a teenager is a hard 
time of life, irrespective of gender identity, that adolescence 
is a difficult, awkward time of life? Is there any evidence to 
support those propositions, or is that just my anecdotal 
experience?
    Dr. Lopez. So, I'm not a mental health provider, so I am 
not sure what specific data exists to show that adolescence is 
a difficult time, but as a pediatrician, I do, I mean, see that 
adolescents--you know, children and adolescents need a lot of 
support from parents, from their----
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes.
    Dr. Lopez [continuing]. Community, to find who they are in 
different ways. Social connection is very important, and 
parental connection is very important in adolescence. That's 
just a general concept.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. And I doubt that many of us in 
this room would like to go back and relive our teenage years. 
So, if you accept the proposition that that period of 
adolescence and the onset of puberty and, you know, being a 
teenager and all of that is a difficult, challenging, and 
awkward time of life, presumably it gets a lot worse when you 
add to all of the questions that kids experience in that phase 
of their lives the additional question, concern, uncertainty, 
awareness that you've got a different gender identity.
    Dr. Lopez. Yes. So, actually, one of the benefits of 
gender-affirming care is to not have to worry about their 
gender. So, it allows children to go on with their lives, go to 
school, do the normal kids or social activities that they want 
to do, without to worry about their gender. Because if they're 
going through a puberty that feels wrong with them, they will 
not be comfortable in their skin to engage with peers, to go to 
school, to do the normal things that kids want to do, because 
they're thinking about their gender all the time and thinking 
that they're not comfortable in their skin.
    Senator Whitehouse. So, this is, at least initially, mostly 
happening with kids, right? Awareness of uncertainty about 
their gender or awareness that they are in the wrong gender? 
That's a----
    Dr. Lopez. Well, it happens to transgender adults, as well.
    Senator Whitehouse. But mostly, it's kids.
    Dr. Lopez. And transgender adults.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes. And it just seems to me that when 
we're dealing with a population that includes so many children, 
that coming at this from perspective of kindness and love and 
support is the thing that just we ought to be doing as fellow 
human beings. And, at least, that's the message I take away 
from this hearing. There's just no point being mean to these 
kids. They've got enough going on already.
    Dr. Lopez. If I can say something?
    Senator Whitehouse. Please.
    Dr. Lopez. These are the bravest kids, just like Harleigh, 
here. You can see how brave she is. These are the bravest kids 
there are because they have to fight every day to be 
themselves.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes.
    Dr. Lopez. And when they feel like they're losing the 
fight, that's when they get depressed and commit suicide. And 
it takes also a lot of courage for these patients to go against 
the world, really, to advocate for their kids, to support them. 
So these are really good, loving parents that just want their 
kids to be happy and do the normal things that kids do.
    Senator Whitehouse. And other grownups trying to score 
points off of all of that just strikes me as being very 
unfortunate behavior.
    Dr. Lopez. It's terribly----
    Senator Whitehouse. Thank you.
    Dr. Lopez [continuing]. Unfair. Thank you.
    Senator Whitehouse. Yes.
    Chair Durbin. Thanks, Senator Whitehouse. Senator Ossoff.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
panelists for joining us today, to all of you for your 
testimony and your courage in speaking publicly and speaking 
before the Senate.
    I think it's worth just stepping back and acknowledging the 
tremendous stress, anxiety that so many across the country are 
dealing with for so many reasons, but that without question, as 
we see in survey after survey, as we see from mental health 
professionals, from psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors, 
that LGBTQ youth are experiencing, particularly in a political 
and cultural environment--whereas we've discussed today, these 
issues are being hotted up and exploited to score cheap 
political points and to divide people.
    And when we see vulnerable people targeted by powerful 
politicians for the purposes of dividing people and gaining 
power, with reckless disregard for the impact that it has on 
particular children and young people who are struggling, who 
are bullied, who are marginalized, who are bravely grappling to 
reconcile themselves and how they feel about themselves with 
the expectations of family and society, and then a political 
environment is imposed upon them in which they're made the 
center of attention and a focus of criticism and hatred--
children--I think it's worth just stepping back--and powerful 
people in the U.S. Senate reflecting on the impact of our 
words, our deeds, our statements.
    Ms. Robinson, I have some data here from Georgia. Would 
like your view on it. Recent data from the Trevor Project: 72 
percent of LGBTQ youth in Georgia experiencing serious anxiety; 
59 percent, symptoms of depression; 46 percent, seriously 
considering suicide within the last year. Can you comment on 
the impact it has on vulnerable and marginalized youth when 
they're made political targets in this endless partisan power 
struggle in the Nation's capital?
    Ms. Robinson. It's absolutely devastating. It's 
devastating, the ways that we've put a target on the back of 
trans youth. And I think about the history of my movement, when 
the AIDS epidemic came to the forefront in the 1980s--by the 
early 1990s, you had lost a whole generation of gay men. I 
don't want us to repeat that story with our trans youth.
    This is a time where we can offer them the support, the 
resources, the affirmation and validity of their existence, to 
ensure that they survive. And when they do, we get people that 
are as whole and happy as folks like Harleigh, at the end of 
this table. This is a real opportunity for us to ensure that 
the most vulnerable among us is protected, because our rights 
and our civil liberties are intertwined.
    Senator Ossoff. And, Ms. Robinson, in addition to the 
impact on the mental health, the sense of whether or not one's 
community and society is welcoming and loving and kind, or 
whether one is being turned into a target and a bargaining chip 
between political parties and a struggle for power--it's, of 
course, not just the impact on the individual's mental health, 
but it's the risk of being targeted by a violent act or a hate 
crime.
    Additional data: Nationwide, according to the FBI, nearly 1 
in 5 hate crimes in 2021 were motivated by anti-LGBTQ bias. 
Between 2017 and 2020, DOJ data demonstrating extreme levels of 
violence against LGBTQ persons across the country. Again, I'm 
asking you, please, to remind the Senate that what we do here 
has a powerful impact on people's sense of well-being and on 
the risk they face of violence. Can you comment on the risk of 
violence, please?
    Ms. Robinson. Absolutely. I mean, I talk to people every 
day that are living in a space of feeling isolated and feeling 
fearful for their very lives. I talk to Black trans women who, 
again, have experienced another deadly year, and they talk 
about going out the house to walk their dog or go to school and 
being fearful that that will be the day they don't get to go 
home again. I talk to parents of trans youth that are fleeing 
their State because they feel that their family and their child 
will not be safe and will not get to grow into an adult.
    This is a crisis. And the hardest part is, that this is a 
crisis that is man-made, that the people can solve for by 
stopping these bad pieces of legislation and stopping the 
violent rhetoric that take away the humanity of trans people in 
the LGBTQ+ community.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Ms. Robinson. Thank you, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Chair Durbin. Thank you. Senator Welch.
    Senator Welch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank all 
of the witnesses for being here. You've been tremendous, and I 
mean every single one of you, because we're dealing with issues 
that really affect people in a very personal way.
    Ms. Walker, thank you for your courage. Thank you for your 
coming forward and telling us your story and sharing that. And 
I want to say thank you to every one of you. You know, this 
whole challenge that we have as a society--and it's not unique 
to U.S. society--of defining people who are ``other'' as less 
entitled to be fully accepted has been an ongoing situation 
that we face throughout our history.
    You know, recently, in Vermont--we were the first State to 
pass civil unions, and our incumbent governor who signed that 
bill nearly lost his reelection. And many of the arguments that 
are being made here about why that would be so bad dissolved 
because once the law was passed and people were together, then 
what before had been seen as wrong--we were allowed to see what 
love existed between these people who got a civil union. And 
then a few years later, Vermont was the fourth State to pass 
marriage.
    And what Senator Ossoff was talking about is kind of a 
dynamic, I think, that is only cured by acceptance. You know, 
none of us know what shoes each of us walks in. We just know 
we're all trying to figure out life and who we are and how we 
can be who we are and be fully, fully engaged in being a 
generous, open, and loving person to everyone else. So, the 
Equality Act, I think, is so important because it essentially 
acknowledges with the force of law that LGBTQ+ folks are 
entitled to the same rights and protections as everyone else.
    So, that's my statement here. But it's a statement of 
appreciation about each of you being here, because--you know, 
I'm talking to you, Mr. Sharp, and you, Ms. Gaines, as well, 
because these are gripping issues for everyone. But I come down 
on the side of: Just accept what people's struggles are. And 
there's a lot of power in accepting, in acceptance.
    But I just want to ask you, Ms. Walker, if you want to say 
anything else about the just extraordinary issues you had to go 
through as you had this emerging sense of who you were that was 
not quite right with--fit who you thought you were and wanted 
to be and were entitled to be. But that's not an easy decision 
to make, to start walking down that road.
    Ms. Walker. You know, coming out, like was said earlier by 
Dr. Lopez and Ms. Robinson, coming out is such a difficult 
process for so many LGBTQ people. And for me, I was lucky to be 
able to have such a supporting family and supportive friends, 
as well. But that's not the case for so many other LGBTQ 
Americans.
    And I came out in a time where, you know--this was before 
any of the anti-trans legislation was being introduced, and it 
was still difficult for me, but I can't imagine trans kids that 
are coming out in this modern era of hate, name-calling, and 
violence by these State legislatures: being called demons, 
groomers, everything like that, and, you know, me being called 
out by my State legislation and Alabama governor who is elected 
to represent everybody in their State, everybody in their 
district. Attacking those people for just simply being who they 
are is disgusting. And so having something like the Equality 
Act to protect those kids that don't have such a big support 
system and stop the incredibly violent rhetoric that is being 
introduced is incredibly important.
    Senator Welch. Thank you very much. Dr. Lopez, I mean, you 
deal with kids, and whatever--and we were all kids once. But is 
some law that tells a child or a young teen, a young adult who 
they can or can't be going to be persuasive to that person 
who's going through some of the internal struggles that people 
go through to fully realize their own identity? Would a law 
that imposes--prohibits them from exploring who they want to be 
have any chance of working, versus acceptance?
    Dr. Lopez. I'm going to try to understand your question. Do 
you mean if, with the laws that are being passed, gender-
affirming care--your question is, what are the chances of those 
children----
    Senator Welch. Well, I'm out of time, so I'm going to have 
to--I didn't ask that very well, but I'm out of time, and I'm 
going to yield back. Thank you very much.
    Chair Durbin. I thank you, Senator Welch, and I have to go 
vote on a roll call that's about to come to an end. So, I'm 
going to have to bring this to a close at this. But I want to 
say two or three things, having sat through the entire hearing 
and listened to all the questions.
    We ended up with three issues here. The first issue was 
violence, and I hope we can all agree and nod: Violence is an 
unacceptable expression in a democracy. There are ways to 
express yourself through speech and press and voting and 
otherwise. Violence is unacceptable, whether it's at a San 
Francisco college or whether it's in the classrooms of a high 
school in Alabama or whether it's the victims of LGBTQ hate 
crimes, which, sadly, are increasing. Unacceptable, both sides 
of the table. That's one thing.
    The second thing is we have two issues that have emerged 
here. One is an issue with Ms. Walker. I was so concerned about 
your coming here today. Really. I didn't have to be. You're 
terrific. You really have poise and make a presentation that is 
very powerful, speaks well of you and certainly of your family 
that stood behind you while you made this difficult transition 
in life.
    But what we're talking about is the other Harleigh Walkers 
across the United States and whether they will have the same 
opportunity for medical care, good, professional medical care 
based on science and medicine, or State legislatures will step 
in and say, ``We don't want the family to make this decision. 
We'll make it for you.'' I think that's wrong.
    As I said at the outset, parents have a responsibility in 
life-and-death decision-making, and I think what's clear is 
their basic misunderstanding about the care that's being given 
to gender affirmation. I think Dr. Lopez clarified that today. 
The notion that little kids are on the way to surgery or that 
medicines are being dispensed with abandon just doesn't bear 
any credence when you look at the organizations that support 
the current method of gender-affirming care: American Medical 
Association, the Academy of Pediatrics.
    And, finally, Ms. Gaines, I get it. I understand why you 
feel as you do. You dedicated a big part of your life in an 
extraordinary way to a sport, and something happened along the 
way which has seared your memory of that experience and leads 
you to speak out. But there's got to be a way for us as 
Americans to enter into a conversation that doesn't protect 
your rights at the expense of our witness from Alabama. There 
has to be a way we can find that is respectful of transgender 
individuals and respectful of what you have done with your life 
and the professionalism you brought to it. That's up to us on 
this side of the table, as I said earlier.
    I wasn't sure about this hearing, but I am sure now. I'm 
glad we had it. I'm glad you all had a chance to testify and 
answer the questions, and we had such a fulsome cooperation and 
participation by all the Members of the Committee. We have the 
power to make the promise of equal justice under the law a 
reality. That's our job in the Senate Judiciary Committee and 
in the Senate, so let's use this power to protect everyone, 
especially the LGBTQ families, our fundamental freedoms, and 
our Nation's future. With that, the Committee will stand 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:23 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
    [Additional material submitted for the record follows.]

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              Additional Material Submitted for the Record

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