[Senate Hearing 118-26]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                         S. Hrg. 118-26

    THE FUTURE OF TRIBAL ENERGY DEVELOPMENT: IMPLEMENTATION OF THE 
                               INFLATION 
                   REDUCTION ACT AND THE BIPARTISAN 
                           INFRASTRUCTURE LAW

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                             MARCH 29, 2023
                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on Indian Affairs
         
         
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                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
52-563 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2024                   


                      COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

                     BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii, Chairman
                 LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska, Vice Chairman
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington           JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
JON TESTER, Montana                  STEVE DAINES, Montana
CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, Nevada       MARKWAYNE MULLIN, Oklahoma
TINA SMITH, Minnesota                MIKE ROUNDS, South Dakota
BEN RAY LUJAN, New Mexico
       Jennifer Romero, Majority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
                  Amber Ebarb, Minority Staff Director

                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page
Hearing held on March 29, 2023...................................     1
Statement of Senator Cortez Masto................................    15
Statement of Senator Lujan.......................................    22
Statement of Senator Murkowski...................................     3
Statement of Senator Schatz......................................     1
Statement of Senator Smith.......................................    19

                               Witnesses

Hogan, Dr. Kathleen, Principal Deputy Under Secretary/Acting 
  Under Secretary for Infrastructure, U.S. Department of Energy..     5
    Prepared statement...........................................     7
Newland, Hon. Bryan, Assistant Secretary, Indian Affairs, U.S. 
  Department of the Interior.....................................    11
    Prepared statement...........................................    12

                                Appendix

Response to written questions submitted to Hon. Bryan Newland by:
    Hon. Catherine Cortez Masto..................................    34
    Hon. John Hoeven.............................................    31
United South and Eastern Tribes Sovereignty Protection Fund, 
  prepared statement.............................................    27
Western States and Tribal Nations Natural Gas Initiative, 
  prepared statement.............................................    30

 
                      THE FUTURE OF TRIBAL ENERGY 
  DEVELOPMENT: IMPLEMENTATION OF THE INFLATION REDUCTION ACT AND THE 
                     BIPARTISAN INFRASTRUCTURE LAW

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, MARCH 29, 2023


                                       U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Indian Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:56 p.m. in room 
628, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Brian Schatz, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRIAN SCHATZ, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM HAWAII

    The Chairman. Good afternoon. I call this oversight hearing 
to order.
    Last Congress, we made historic bipartisan investments in 
longstanding unmet infrastructure needs for clean water, 
sanitation, and energy. We also made significant steps toward a 
clean energy future with investments in generation, grid 
resiliency, and electrification.
    We pushed nearly half a billion dollars directly to Native 
communities for energy needs, and made them eligible to apply 
for billions of dollars more. This down payment should begin to 
address the United States' history of actively exploiting 
Native energy resources for non-Native gain and willfully 
neglecting Native energy needs.
    This legacy of neglect needs to stop now. We need a course 
correction to support Native energy development, and it needs 
to start with the agencies that you represent.
    We have been funding the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee 
program for six years, and you have backed zero projects. You 
needed direct lending; we gave you that. You needed more 
authority; we gave you $20 billion worth of authority. You 
needed 100 percent guarantees; we gave you that. You needed 
credit support; we gave you $75 million.
    Now I hear that you are turning away applicants who have 
supplemental grant funding. I also hear that you are subjecting 
tribal governments to creditworthiness tests that they can't 
possibly meet.
    No more excuses. I want to know when these loans are going 
out. And it should go without saying that six years is too 
long.
    I also can't keep hearing from Native communities that they 
are being kept away from grant funding by poor outreach and 
coordination and consultation with Native matters buried in 60-
page RFIs, burdensome application requirements like concept 
papers, forced partnerships with outsiders, and shovel-ready 
project pre-approvals.
    And I just want to be very clear: none of this is in 
statutory law. We are not asking you to do this. We are asking 
you to push this money out to Native communities, which is what 
the Federal law says. I thought I was going to do a normal 
oversight hearing on how we are doing on tribal energy. What we 
got back from Native communities is terrible, we are doing 
terrible. They are being treated like they are interlopers. 
They are being treated like they are not sovereign. And they 
are not being permitted to participate in the programs that the 
Congress has authorized and appropriated money for.
    This is just for formula funding and set-asides like grid 
resilience funding. Tribes are having to work so hard to get 
the money that was designated for them that they have no 
bandwidth left to go after competitive funding. They are also 
eligible for competitive funds. I am hearing that there is no 
Native outreach and consultation, even for programs like 
battery recycling and manufacturing where the statute 
prioritizes tribal partnerships.
    No TA on applications, more square peg-round hole 
requirements like community benefit plans for Native projects 
that by definition benefit the Native communities.
    Requiring online--this was the one that got my attention in 
the first instance. Now, granted it got fixed. Tribes without 
internet had to apply for broadband using the internet. It sort 
of makes you chuckle, and I do want to point out it was fixed.
    But the idea that there is a Federal law and it makes 
tribes eligible, and then they have to apply online even though 
they don't have internet connectivity, and then they have to 
come to us to do our oversight to troubleshoot. Those of you 
who know me knows I have perhaps an unearned reputation for 
being relatively even keeled. But I am mad. This is 
preposterous.
    I don't come here and berate people. But I am left with no 
choice, because we passed laws, we passed appropriations bills. 
And the Native communities that are coming to us are saying, I 
don't know how to apply, they have requirements that are not 
statutory, that are just process and procedure, or custom.
    So this has to be fixed. I understand that a lot of this is 
the legacy of how some of these programs have been structured 
over many, many years, and that many of your offices at least 
at Energy are not accustomed to working with Native communities 
and their unique structures and needs. But everything has 
changed in the last two years, and we all have to adapt.
    Native communities cannot be left out. I expect your 
agencies to actively support Native energy development, and not 
just solve a problem when it is brought to the Committee's 
attention and then we bring it to your attention.
    It has been more than seven months since we passed the 
Inflation Reduction Act, and nearly a year and a half since we 
passed the Bipartisan Infrastructure Bill. It is time to 
implement.
    I will now turn to the Vice Chair for her opening 
statement.

               STATEMENT OF HON. LISA MURKOWSKI, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM ALASKA

    Senator Murkowski. Mr. Chairman, I am glad to hear you are 
a little cranky this afternoon. To your point, these have been 
issues that have been part of Indian Country's reality, part of 
the reality of Alaska Native peoples for far, far, far too 
long.
    For far too long, we hear about these programs, we hear 
about the funding that we have put, outlined in legislation, in 
law with specific, specific set-asides for tribal interests. We 
are thinking proactively.
    I have been a member of the Indian Affairs Committee since 
I came to the United States Senate 20 years ago. Part of what I 
have been doing for 20 years is looking to those programs that 
we have where there should and must be more opportunities for 
Native people, opportunities to compete, opportunities to 
better themselves, opportunities for self-empowerment.
    But when it is our own systems that effectively hold them 
back, that is not fair to anybody. I think those of us that are 
sitting on this side of the dais have a right to be frustrated 
and angry and disappointed and a whole host of other emotions, 
because we are trying to do right. I believe that those within 
the agencies are trying to do right.
    So I am not quite sure where we got this gap here. Because 
I hear the exact same concerns that the Chairman has heard. We 
had a pretty major symposium hosted by the Alaska Federation of 
Natives just about a month ago. The Chairman was there and 
spoke at it. We had presentations from just about every 
department and agency that was relevant to Alaska Native 
peoples.
    We hear these frustrations, we hear about the mind-blowing 
situation with, in order to apply for funds to upgrade your 
internet or to obtain internet services, you have to apply 
online. Those are things that most people would just scratch 
their head and say, that is ridiculous, that is insanity, that 
is the government at its worst. But that is seemingly what is 
happening here.
    I want to underscore again using my State as an example, 
Alaska Native peoples as an example of why it is so imperative 
that we improve tribal energy development. Fourteen percent, 
about 14 percent of households in Indian Country don't have 
electricity. That is what the Department of Energy's Energy 
Information Administration, EIA, says, 14 percent don't have 
electricity.
    That is staggering. So whether you are from Alaska, where 
it is cold, or you are from the South or the Southwest, where 
it is hot, and you can't heat, you can't cool, you can't light, 
what we did in the Infrastructure Bill, what was done in the 
Inflation Reduction Act spends prolifically, particularly in 
the IRA, prolifically on rebates and incentives for 
electrifying home and energy efficient home appliances.
    But I will tell you, none of that is any good to a place 
like Alaska where the electricity is unaffordable and the 
service is unreliable. Native people pay more for electricity 
as a percentage of their household income than any other 
demographic out there. Native communities are at high risk for 
frequent and prolonged weather power outages due to their rural 
locations, vulnerabilities to extreme weather and climate.
    I can't count the number of communities where they have 
been in the dark, literally for days, and in the frozen dark 
for days, and what happens as a consequence of that. In some of 
our villages, we have electricity rates that exceed a dollar 
per kilowatt hour. That is roughly 1,000 percent higher than 
what the average American pays for electricity, which is about 
10.4 cents per kilowatt hour.
    So again, when you talk about some of these grand 
innovations and what we are going to bring you with rebates, 
well, if you are paying a dollar a kilowatt hour, tell me how 
you line up for any kind of a rebate here.
    Most Native communities in Alaska still are relying on 
diesel fuel and heating oil. They don't want to, but that is 
what they have. Right now, you are looking at $7 a gallon. Some 
communities, up in Noatak, this winter, it was $17 a gallon. 
Some families are spending nearly half their annual income on 
heating fuel, gasoline and electricity.
    I mentioned reliability, and the fact that we don't have 
it. You can't count on it. You can't afford it and you can't 
count on it. Fuel delivery may be limited to one or two barge 
shipments per year. So you have to buy it ahead. You have to 
purchase in bulk.
    But think about what happens when a village and a 
community, it is not like you have tax revenue coming into a 
community of 400 or 500 people, and you need to pay the fuel 
delivery folks ahead of time, you have to pay the contract 
barge service ahead of time. So you order as much as you can 
afford, not how much will get you through the winter.
    We are approaching April. This is the time of year we start 
hearing from our communities saying we have run out. We have 
run out of fuel, and there are still another six weeks of 
winter left in many parts of the State. What do we do? You know 
what the answer is? We fly it in. Fly in 50 gallons a barrel of 
fuel in an airplane. If you don't think that is expensive.
    And that is our reality. So when they hear me coming to 
them and saying, we have tribal energy programs, we have a way 
to help you, believe me, they are interested. So when we talk 
about the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the promise that it 
holds, it is exciting in so many ways.
    But many of them are starting to feel like, is this a false 
promise? Is this a false promise here?
    So we have to do more as the Chairman says. We have to do 
better. We can't be in a situation where the problems arise 
because people just can't take it anymore and they don't know 
where else to turn. So they call their Senators, they call 
their Congressman and we say, we have this great tribal energy 
loan program.
    And to the Chairman's point, not a single loan has been 
issued. That Energy Policy Act, 2005, that was a long time ago. 
We have increased the program's loan guarantee authority, as 
the Chairman mentioned, from $2 billion to $20 billion. We made 
permanent the direct lending authority to the tribes that we 
included in the Omnibus from last year.
    But I think it still remains to be seen whether the 
Department is going to be able to make the loan program work. I 
think it is important to remind colleagues about the disparity, 
the extreme disparity, and sometimes Alaska's examples are a 
little bit on the extreme. But I know each and every one of us 
on this Committee representing Native people have similar 
stories when it comes to access to energy and the energy 
poverty amongst our Native people.
    This is an important oversight. It has to be important that 
there is an action plan as a consequence of where we go from 
here.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    We will now turn to our witnesses. We are pleased to have 
Dr. Kathleen Hogan, the Principal Deputy Under Secretary and 
Acting Under Secretary for Infrastructure at the Department of 
Energy, and Mr. Bryan Newland, Assistant Secretary for Indian 
Affairs at the U.S. Department of Interior.
    I want to remind our witnesses that your full written 
testimony will be made part of the official hearing record. 
Please confine your statements to no more than five minutes, so 
that members may have time for questions.
    Dr. Hogan, please proceed.

    STATEMENT OF DR. KATHLEEN HOGAN, PRINCIPAL DEPUTY UNDER 
             SECRETARY/ACTING UNDER SECRETARY FOR 
           INFRASTRUCTURE, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY

    Dr. Hogan. Chair Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski and 
distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for this 
opportunity to provide an update on the Department of Energy's 
efforts to implement the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs 
Act, also referred to as the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and 
the Inflation Reduction Act, IRA, as they pertain to Indian 
Country.
    All of us at the Department really are incredibly grateful 
for the leadership of this Committee in formulating and 
enacting these landmark laws, and really, for your ongoing 
guidance during all of this implementation. Taken together, 
these laws do represent a historic investment in renewing 
energy infrastructure in tribal communities through competitive 
and formula grant programs, rebates, loan guarantees and tax 
credits, so that we could maximize the benefits from these 
programs.
    Last year the Department of Energy underwent a strategic 
realignment in which we did create this new Office of the Under 
Secretary for Infrastructure. This new Under Secretariat 
includes new offices like the State and Community Energy 
Programs, SCEP, and our existing mission-aligned offices, like 
the Office of Indian Energy and the Loan Programs Office, all 
under one roof.
    With this new structure, we are working hard to deploy 
quickly and effectively, because we know the need is great, and 
that the solutions are long overdue in Indian Country. These 
investments are intended to address the longstanding need for 
updated infrastructure across Indian Country with a keen focus 
on creating lasting, good-paying jobs and helping to tackle the 
ongoing challenges, including energy access, reliability, and 
cost. I am pleased, very pleased to be here today to talk about 
our efforts in implementing these laws in Indian Country and 
really just to highlight a couple examples of these programs.
    First, to help tribal households lower their energy costs 
and boost efficiency, the Inflation Reduction Act includes $225 
million set aside from the High Efficiency Electric Home Rebate 
Program. Here, each tribal household can receive up to $14,000 
in rebates for equipment and other efficiency related upgrades, 
and here we are actively engaged in a formal consultation 
process to receive input from tribes, including a tribal 
consultation event just this afternoon.
    Also, I will highlight that to improve resilience, we are 
implementing the Grid Resilience Formula Grants, which is a 
five-year, $2.3 billion formula grant for States and tribes to 
harden the grid and make it more resilient to disruptive 
events. To properly implement this program, we have conducted 
significant outreach to States, tribes and territories, 
including direct outreach to over 170 tribes, as well as tribal 
regional organizations and tribal utilities.
    Just this past March 20th, we announced a new mail-in 
option to address internet connectivity challenges, and we 
extended the deadline to May to allow tribes additional time to 
work on their applications.
    Also, to address specific challenges in remote areas, we 
are providing $1 billion for the Energy Improvements in Rural 
and Remote Area Program, which will help increase energy 
affordability and promote climate resilience in rural and 
remote communities. This effort also includes a $15 million 
prize competition called the Energizing Rural Communities 
Prize, to help tribes and rural communities build the capacity 
needed for clean energy development and deployment.
    Additionally, and really thanks to you, to this Committee 
for your leadership, Congress did make some very critical 
changes to the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee Program that we 
call TELGP, including the permanent ability to issue direct 
loans to tribes through the IRA. So this change in combination 
with other changes in our Fiscal Year 2022 Omnibus we see has 
greatly increased the interest in and accessibility to these 
loans.
    LPO is growing its TELGP outreach footprint with group and 
individual tribe leaders to solicit feedback and to better 
employ this program. Since January, we have held over 270 
outreach meetings. We now do have four applications officially 
submitted to this program totaling nearly $500 million in 
requested TELGP loan programs.
    So we will continue to work diligently to utilize the $20 
billion in aggregate loan authority provided by IRA to deliver 
the important benefits this program offers to tribes.
    In closing, we are working across the department in close 
coordination with the Office of Indian Energy to solicit input 
and feedback from communities on program design, details and 
technical assistance so we can build toward their priorities 
and their energy sovereignty, including through a DOA Tribal 
Clean Energy Summit last fall.
    We continue to offer no-cost technical assistance through 
our Office of Indian Energy to help tribes chart their course. 
We know there is more work to be done here, and any number of 
challenges we do need to address. We look forward to addressing 
them with you and continuing to put this really important money 
to work.
    Thank you for the opportunity today. We do look forward to 
answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Hogan follows:]

   Prepared Statement of Dr. Kathleen Hogan, Principal Deputy Under 
Secretary/Acting Under Secretary for Infrastructure, U.S. Department of 
                                 Energy
Introduction
    Chair Schatz, Vice Chair Murkowski, and distinguished Members of 
the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to provide an update on 
the Department of Energy's (DOE or the Department) efforts to implement 
the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, also referred to as the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL), and the Inflation Reduction Act 
(IRA) in Indian Country. All of us at the Department are incredibly 
grateful for the contributions of this committee in formulating and 
enacting these landmark laws and for your ongoing guidance during their 
implementation.
    Taken together, the BIL and IRA represent historic investments in 
renewing energy infrastructure in Tribal communities for decades to 
come through a variety of competitive and formula grant programs, loan 
guarantees, and tax credits. These investments are intended to address 
the longstanding need for updated infrastructure across Indian Country, 
with a keen focus on creating lasting, good-paying jobs, and helping to 
tackle ongoing challenges including energy access, reliability, and 
costs. On behalf of DOE, I thank you and your staffs for your vision, 
leadership, and partnership in the passage and implementation of these 
laws.
    Last year, the Department underwent a strategic realignment, in 
which we created the new Office of the Under Secretary for 
Infrastructure. This new Under Secretariat includes the new Office of 
State and Community Energy Programs (SCEP), Grid Deployment Office 
(GDO), and Office of Manufacturing and Energy Supply Chains (MESC), the 
BIL-created Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations (OCED), and existing 
mission-aligned offices, like the Office of Indian Energy (IE) and the 
Loan Programs Office (LPO). Housing these offices, among others, under 
``one roof'' is helping DOE maximize the effectiveness of BIL and IRA 
programs and boost DOE's ongoing work to reduce energy costs through 
low-cost clean energy resources, create jobs and stimulate American 
manufacturing and industrial competitiveness, increase equity and 
environmental justice, and support meeting ambitious climate goals. I 
am pleased to be here today to detail our efforts in implementing these 
laws in Indian Country, as well as the successes and challenges we have 
encountered thus far.
Highlights of BIL and IRA Energy Provisions for Native Communities
Office of State and Community Energy Programs (SCEP)
    The Office of State and Community Energy Programs, also known as 
SCEP, designs and implements several formula grant programs that are 
distributed to Tribes, as well as to state and local governments. With 
a new $550 million investment allocated by Congress in the BIL, SCEP is 
implementing the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Block Grant 
(EECBG), which can be used by Tribes for a wide array of uses, ranging 
from standing up financial incentive programs for energy efficiency 
improvements to upgrading community infrastructure like streetlights 
and traffic signals to installing renewable energy technology. EECBG 
sets aside $8.8 million in formula allocations for 574 Federally 
recognized Tribes, 229 Alaska Native Villages, and 13 Alaska Native 
Regional Corporations.
    The EECBG program's formula allocations opened for applications on 
January 20, 2023, with a deadline of April 28, 2023. For Native 
communities and local governments that are not eligible for a formula 
allocation based on population, EECBG sets aside an additional $8.8 
million for a competitive grant program. Earlier this year, the 
Department solicited public feedback from State-recognized Tribes and 
other stakeholders on the design of this competitive grant program 
through a Request for Information (RFI). The Funding Opportunity 
Announcement (FOA) for the EECBG competitive grant program is expected 
in the coming weeks.
    SCEP also leads the Weatherization Assistance Program (WAP), which 
was allocated an additional $3.5 billion by Congress in the BIL. The 
formula Weatherization Assistance Program provides services to income-
eligible households throughout the country including on Tribal lands. 
Most commonly, DOE WAP funds are provided to state governments and the 
funding is passed through to a local weatherization agency or Tribe. 
Eligible weatherization services under the program include insulation 
repairs and upgrades, installation of energy efficient doors and 
windows, and home air sealing. The application for WAP formula funds 
under the BIL closed on July 1, 2022. The Department is currently in 
the process of distributing allocations.
    To help Tribal households lower their home energy costs and boost 
efficiency, the Inflation Reduction Act includes a $225 million set-
aside from the High-Efficiency Electric Home Rebate Program. Grants 
from DOE can be used by Tribes and Alaska Native Villages and Regional 
Corporations to set up home energy rebate programs that directly fund 
housing upgrades for Tribal households. Rebates will provide immediate 
discounts on a variety of equipment and energy efficiency upgrades, 
including heat pumps, heat pump hot water heaters, heat pump clothes 
dryers, induction stoves, electrical panel upgrades, electrical wiring 
upgrades, and air sealing and insulation. If a Tribal household earns 
between 80 and 150 percent of the Area Median Income (AMI), they are 
eligible for rebates worth half the cost of the energy efficient 
upgrades. Tribal households below 80 percent of the AMI are eligible 
for rebates covering the full cost of the upgrades. Each Tribal 
household can receive up to $14,000 through the rebates.
    While Congress has already stipulated States' formula allocations 
under this program, SCEP is continuing to engage with Tribes to discuss 
program design and Tribal allocation amounts. SCEP is working with 
other DOE programs and with the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 
Development to discuss various formula options based on population, 
poverty, and other factors. SCEP is also going through a formal 
consultation process to receive input from Tribes. SCEP will host a 
Tribal Consultation virtual event on March 29, 2023. Executives of 
Tribal Governments and Alaska Native Entities received ``Dear Tribal 
Leader'' letters inviting them to this virtual event on March 1. 
Executive leaders of Indian Tribes and their designees are also welcome 
to submit written comments to DOE on their preferences for the 
forthcoming Tribal rebate programs by April 28. DOE is also reaching 
out to a variety of other Tribal organizations, Tribal networks, and 
Federal programs that work with Tribes to spread awareness of this 
program, the March 29 Consultation, and the opportunity to submit 
comments to DOE.
Grid Deployment Office (GDO)
    By passing the BIL, Congress enacted a mandate on the Department to 
renew the Nation's electric grid infrastructure, making it more 
resilient, efficient, and reliable for generations to come. The 
Department's newly created Grid Deployment Office, also referred to as 
GDO, is leading our effort on this front. This effort includes the 
BIL's Grid Resilience Formula Grants--a five-year, $2.3 billion formula 
grant program for states and Tribes to carry out activities to harden 
the grid and make it more resilient to disruptive events.
    GDO has opened the first round of funding made available for fiscal 
years 2022 and 2023, including allocations for Tribes, Alaska Native 
Village Corporations, and Alaska Native Regional Corporations for the 
first two fiscal years of the five-year program. GDO has conducted 
significant outreach to states, Tribes, and territories to implement 
the State and Tribal Formula Grants program, including direct outreach 
to over 170 Tribes, Tribal regional organizations, and Tribal 
utilities; public outreach to Tribes by attending local Tribal 
conferences; direct outreach and meetings with Tribal Leaders and 
providing application assistance through application templates and 
identifying additional sources of funding for Tribes to help meet cost-
matching requirements such as the U.S. Treasury Department's Local 
Assistance and Tribal Consistency Fund (LATCF). Tribes have been clear 
about the challenges they face in accessing funding to apply for 
programs. Specifically, remote and rural Tribes have identified that 
lack of reliable Internet prevents them from applying to the program 
through an online portal. On March 20, 2023, GDO announced a mail-in 
option to address this challenge and extended the deadline to May 31, 
2023, to allow Tribes additional time to complete their applications. 
Tribes have noted the challenge of the statutorily required cost-match; 
the deadline extension also allows more Tribes to apply to the LATCF, 
which can be used as matching funds.
    Additionally, Tribes have indicated an interest in using consortium 
applications for this program to help address capacity constraints for 
Tribes applying to and administering these funds. The statutory 
language in BIL requires that funding is provided directly to Tribes. 
To address the capacity constraints of Tribes to apply to this program, 
DOE allows Tribes to designate a third-party to the prepare, submit, 
and administer a resulting grant. Once individual Tribes receive funds, 
they are eligible to work together to use funds on a joint project with 
that shared funding.
    Our team has worked to maximize the flexibility of this program to 
meet the needs of Tribes, while ensuring we are working within the 
clear statutory language in the law. GDO will continue to work with 
Tribes to address any challenges they are facing, and our team is happy 
to meet with the Committee and its members to discuss these challenges 
further and how to address them. We would welcome the opportunity to 
work with this committee to provide additional flexibility to meet the 
needs of Tribes. The Grid Deployment Office also leads the Inflation 
Reduction Act's Transmission Siting and Economic Development grant 
program, which allocates $760 million to support Tribes, States, and 
local communities in the siting and permitting of interstate and 
offshore electricity transmission lines as part of a broader effort to 
boost grid reliability and resilience. If a Tribe does not have a 
designated ``siting authority'' for transmission projects, including 
projects crossing reservation lines, they may still be eligible for a 
grant under the program for economic development activities for 
communities that may be affected by the construction and operation of a 
covered transmission project. The Arctic Energy Office is working with 
stakeholders in the Department and Alaska on the challenge of non-
interstate and microgrids for Alaska communities.
    The RFI for the Transmission Siting and Economic Development grant 
program closed on February 28, 2023. Program experts are currently 
undertaking a detailed review of public comments received during the 
RFI solicitation. GDO also plans to seek additional feedback in the 
coming months through listening sessions with interested stakeholders, 
including Tribal Nations, to ensure that the transmission siting 
program can effectively meet the transmission and economic development 
needs of these communities. The Department anticipates issuing the 
first Funding Opportunity Announcement under this program later this 
year.
Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations (OCED)
    In the BIL, Congress allocated $1 billion for the Energy 
Improvements in Rural or Remote Areas (ERA) program, which will help 
increase energy affordability and promote climate resilience in rural 
and remote communities. The first round of funding from this program 
made $300 million available and opened on March 1, 2023. Concept papers 
for the funding announcement are due April 14 and full applications are 
due June 28.
    ERA also includes a $15 million prize competition, called the 
Energizing Rural Communities Prize, to help Tribes and rural 
communities build the capacity needed for clean energy development and 
deployment. This prize competition will help build partnerships by 
connecting Tribes and communities to government funding and a network 
of partners that can help implement clean energy projects. The prize 
will help selectees develop plans to access capital and/or develop 
community ownership models. Full applications for the Energizing Rural 
Communities Prize are due May 24, 2023.
Loan Programs Office (LPO)
    In the IRA, Congress made permanent the ability for the U.S. 
Treasury Federal Financing Bank to issue direct loans, guaranteed by 
DOE via LPO, to Tribes under the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee Program 
(TELGP). This change--in additional to other changes in Fiscal Year 
2022 to the TELGP solicitation to clarify ownership requirements, 
lending obligations, and fees--has increased interest in and 
accessibility to TELGP loans. The IRA also increased the available loan 
authority under TELGP from $2 billion to $20 billion and provided $75 
million for the Loan Programs Office to carry out the program. Under 
TELGP, DOE can support Tribal energy financing to eligible Indian 
Tribes, including Alaska Native Villages or regional or village 
corporations, or Tribal Energy Development Organizations certified by 
the Secretary of the Interior under 25 CFR Part 224, Subpart J, for the 
development of energy resources like solar, wind farms, microgrids, 
mining and fossil energy production, and transmission and distribution.
    Through funds allocated in the IRA and in base appropriations, LPO 
continues to grow its TELGP Outreach and Business Development 
footprint--through ongoing communication with Tribal leaders to solicit 
feedback about the proposed design of TELGP, one-on-one meetings with 
Tribal leaders to better understand areas of need, and participation in 
Tribal energy summits and events. Through the first three months of FY 
2023, 270 (123 initial and 147 follow-ups) outreach meetings were held, 
and four applications were officially submitted, totaling nearly $500 
million dollars in requested TELGP financing. LPO will continue to work 
diligently to utilize the $20 billion in aggregate loan authority 
provided by the IRA to ultimately deliver important energy and economic 
benefits to Indian Tribes.
Office of Indian Energy (IE)
    The Department's Office of Indian Energy Policy and Programs plays 
a critical role in DOE's outreach to Tribal communities and coordinates 
across the Department to ensure that the programs we launch that have 
Tribal elements--out of any of our program offices--are thoughtfully 
crafted to best serve the needs of Indian Country.
    In addition to leading programs that are funded through annual 
appropriations and conducting internal coordination across DOE, IE 
hosts a series of webinars and other external stakeholder engagement 
events to solicit input and feedback from Tribal communities on program 
design, program details, and technical assistance to build toward their 
priorities, including the deployment of clean energy infrastructure in 
Indian Country.
    The Office of Indian Energy hosts the Indian Country Energy and 
Infrastructure Working Group, which brings government and Tribal 
leaders together to collaborate and gain insight into real-time Tribal 
experiences representing obstacles and opportunities in energy and 
related infrastructure development. The Working Group's most recent 
meeting was in Blue Lake Rancheria, California, and participants 
included the Loan Programs Office, Grid Deployment Office, Office of 
Cybersecurity, Energy Security, and Emergency Response, Office of Clean 
Energy Demonstrations, and Office of Manufacturing and Energy Supply 
Chains. The next Working Group meeting is slated for late May, hosted 
by the Seneca Nation in New York.
    IE also helped lead the effort and hosted the DOE Tribal Clean 
Energy Summit in October 2022--a nation-to-nation discussion to explore 
how Tribes can harness clean energy to enhance energy sovereignty, 
address climate resilience, and build stronger economies. This input 
and collaboration are especially important given the sizeable new 
investments in Tribal energy infrastructure through the BIL and IRA.
Challenges in the Implementation of BIL and IRA in Indian Country
    While we are proud of our track record of outreach to Tribes as 
well as our pace of implementation of the BIL and IRA, the Department 
has also encountered some challenges as we continue to deploy clean 
energy across Indian Country.
    One consistent challenge that we hear is a lack of administrative 
capacity to successfully complete applications for competitive grants 
and loans. Many Tribes oftentimes lack the technical expertise and 
resources to fill out more complex longform applications--like with 
TELGP--and comply with annual reporting requirements.
    What makes this more difficult is that in some cases--like with the 
Grid Resilience Formula Grants program described above--the statute 
requires that grants be awarded to individual Tribes, which prohibits 
Tribal consortia from pooling their resources to apply for and receive 
funds. A suggestion that we have heard from Tribal leadership is to 
allow for consortia to apply to help increase capacity and maximize 
efficiencies among Tribal communities. Another suggestion we have heard 
is to better promote non-competitive sources of funding (i.e., formula 
grants) that offer Tribes a more level playing field and do not 
necessitate the same level of administrative capacity.
    As mentioned previously, the Grid Deployment Office has made a 
number of thoughtful program design decisions within statutory 
boundaries, like allowing Tribes to utilize a third-party to help with 
grant applications and administration, as well as making it clear that 
Tribes can work together after receiving competitive grant funding on a 
joint project. Even so, these design elements do not have the same 
impact that allowing pooled funds and applications would have.
    A related challenge that we face in implementing these historic 
laws in Indian Country is the cost-share requirement that many of our 
programs have. Depending on the project, Tribes are oftentimes 
statutorily required to cost match at least 15 percent and up to 115 
percent of Federal funds, making several of our programs cost-
prohibitive for smaller and less-resourced Tribes. In 2020, Congress 
authorized DOE to lower the cost-share requirement for programs 
administered by the Office of Indian Energy from 50 percent to 20 
percent, which could be further reduced to 10 percent if the Tribal 
applicant falls below certain poverty and median household income 
thresholds. We thank Congress for taking this important step and 
encourage similar policies moving forward.
    The Department has also heard concerns from Tribes regarding a 
``return on investment'' issue. For example, the Energy Independence 
and Security Act of 2007 stipulates that two percent of EECBG program 
formula funds be allocated to Federally recognized Tribes through a 
formula established by the Secretary. In the BIL, Congress appropriated 
$550 million to the program, substantially less than was appropriated 
by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, but did not change this 
formula. This has meant that the vast majority of Tribes are eligible 
for allocations of less than $15,000. DOE has done what it can to 
mitigate this, and in this case the Department used its authority to 
establish a minimum of $10,000 per allocation, since many Tribes would 
otherwise have been significantly less. However, this allocation amount 
is very small relative to the amount of work required by a small Tribe 
to apply for and manage a Federal grant. An increase in the percentage 
of funds allocated to Tribes through the EECBG allocation formula would 
enable DOE to provide additional formula funding to Tribes, including a 
higher minimum funding level.
    We have encountered similar issues in the implementation of the 
Grid Resilience Formula Grants; the Department has implemented a 
minimum formula allocation of $30,000 to mitigate how miniscule the 
allocations would have otherwise been for Tribes, but due to statutory 
constraints it remains far from sufficient for the magnitude of 
investments needed to bring Tribal communities in step with their non-
Tribal counterparts in terms of lower-cost, reliable clean energy 
infrastructure.
Conclusion
    The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and Inflation Reduction Act have 
tremendous potential to shift Tribal energy transition into the next 
gear, with equity and opportunity at the top of mind. The Department of 
Energy looks forward to continuing our work with Congress and this 
committee specifically to build on our shared successes and find paths 
forward to overcome the challenges we face in the implementation of 
these laws. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify before you 
today. I look forward to your questions.

    The Chairman. Mr. Newland, please proceed.

          STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN NEWLAND, ASSISTANT 
       SECRETARY, INDIAN AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE 
                            INTERIOR

    Mr. Newland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the 
Committee. It is always great to have the opportunity to appear 
before the Committee and testify. I do appreciate the 
opportunity to be here today.
    My name is Bryan Newland. I have the privilege of serving 
as Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs at the Department of 
the Interior.
    As you noted, Mr. Chairman, the Inflation Reduction Act is 
a historic law that makes transformational investments to 
address the climate crisis, lower costs for working families, 
and create good-paying jobs for all Americans. Overall, the 
Department of the Interior will receive $6.6 billion in direct 
funding through the IRA. Of this, $150 million is provided to 
the Bureau of Indian Affairs for a new tribal electrification 
program.
    There is a great need for home electrification in Indian 
Country. In 2022, our colleagues at the Department of Energy, 
Office of Indian Energy reported that nearly 17,000 homes in 
Indian Country lacked electricity, with most being in the 
Southwest and in Alaska. The Department of Energy's report 
highlighted that 21 percent of homes on the Navajo Nation and 
35 percent of homes on the Hopi Reservation lack electricity.
    Access to electricity is something that most Americans take 
for granted. We know that it benefits our health, welfare, 
education, and our overall lives. Without electricity, the 
basic standard of living that most Americans enjoy is out of 
reach, things like running water, reliable lighting, home 
heating and cooling, and appliances like refrigerators and 
microwaves.
    With electrification, Native families can stop traveling 
hundreds of miles to get their water, and they will be able to 
ditch their portable coolers that they use to preserve their 
food at home.
    Our goal is to get this funding to where it is needed as 
quickly as we can and to fulfill our obligation to consult with 
tribes. We held two consultations on the IRA programs just this 
past December, and we intend to hold additional listening 
sessions in April with our partners at the Department of 
Energy.
    We received valuable feedback from tribes and these 
consultations helped us understand the scope of energy and 
electrification needs as well as how to help build capacity for 
implementation.
    We also want to ensure that we maximize the impact of these 
funds. We expect our funding to be awarded through a 
competitive proposal process with an emphasis on need, and we 
will provide technical assistance throughout and move these 
funds through 638 contracts.
    We also plan to offer two-year funding in two separate 
rounds for electrification projects, with half to be obligated 
by the end of the fiscal year and all funds obligated by the 
end of Fiscal Year 2025.
    The Department has been coordinating with other Federal 
agencies in the implementation of our bill and IRA funds. This 
is consistent with what tribes have asked of us and it also 
reflects President Biden's commitment to an all-of-government 
approach to solving problems.
    In particular, we have worked closely with the Department 
of Energy, with FEMA, and with USDA, to coordinate our 
consultations and funding announcements, and will continue to 
do so along with partnering with Indian Country.
    The Department commends and thanks the work of this 
Committee and Congress to enact the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law and the IRA with the historic funding investments you have 
made in Indian Country. We look forward to continuing our work 
with tribes, our Federal partners, and the Committee to ensure 
that the energy needs of tribes are met.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I look forward to answering your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Newland follows:]

 Prepared Statement of Hon. Bryan Newland, Assistant Secretary, Indian 
                Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior
    Aanii (Hello)! Good afternoon, Chairman Schatz, Vice Chairman 
Murkowski, and members of the Committee. My name is Bryan Newland, and 
I am the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs at the U.S. Department 
of the Interior (Department). Thank you for the opportunity to present 
the Department's testimony at this important oversight hearing, ``The 
Future of Tribal Energy Development: Implementation of the Inflation 
Reduction Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.''
    The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) is an historic law that includes 
transformational investments to address the climate crisis, lower costs 
for working families, and create good-paying jobs. Combined with the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL), these two initiatives represent 
the largest investments in climate resilience in the nation's history 
and provide a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the work of the 
Department.
    Overall, the Department will receive $6.6 billion in direct funding 
through the IRA. This funding will help bureaus and offices across the 
Department to transition to a clean energy economy, advance key habitat 
restoration and resilience projects, and secure environmental justice 
for historically disadvantaged communities. Of the funding provided to 
the Department, $150 million is provided for the Bureau of Indian 
Affairs for a new Tribal Electrification Program.
    The Tribal Electrification Program will coordinate financial and 
technical assistance to Tribes to increase the number of Tribal homes 
with zero emission electricity. The need across Indian Country is 
significant. In 2000, the Energy Information Administration issued a 
report which estimated that 14 percent of households on Native American 
reservations had no access to electricity, this was 10 times higher 
than the national average. In 2022 the Department of Energy Office of 
Indian Energy issued a report citing that 16, 805 total Tribal homes 
were unelectrified with most being in the Southwest region and Alaska. 
Specifically, 21 percent of Navajo Nation homes and 35 percent of Hopi 
Indian Tribe homes are unelectrified. Access to electricity will 
improve the health, welfare, education, and overall lives of Native 
Americans. Whereas running water, reliable lighting, modern forms of 
home heating and cooling, and appliances such as refrigerators and 
microwaves were simply out of reach, with electrification, Native 
American families can stop traveling hundreds of miles to procure water 
and will be able to retire their portable coolers filled with ice to 
preserve their food. Recognizing each Tribe has its own energy and 
electrification related needs and implementation capacity, the program 
will work to meet the unique needs of individual Tribal communities.
    Our goal in implementing the Tribal Electrification Program is to 
ensure we maximize the impact of the funds while working to meet the 
need to deliver electricity to Tribal homes. We also aim to deploy the 
funding quickly while also fulfilling our commitment to meaningfully 
consult with Tribes. The Department held two consultations on the IRA 
programs in December 2022 and intends to host additional listening 
sessions in April. Our plan is to offer two-year funding in two 
separate rounds for electrification projects with half to be obligated 
by the end of fiscal year 2023 and all funds obligated by the end of 
fiscal year 2025.
    The Department conducted consultation with Tribes to understand the 
unique energy and electrification needs as well as implementation 
capacity. Funding will be awarded through a competitive proposal 
process to be deployed via Indian Self-Determination and Education 
Assistance Act and Tribal Self Governance Act of 1994 agreements, using 
varied criteria, and supported by technical assistance. We estimate it 
will cost roughly $70,000 per home to deliver electricity to homes that 
are not already on or immediately near a power grid or wired for 
electricity. To maximize impacts with the $150 million available from 
the IRA, we will use a project-based process to focus on funding 
projects that can deliver electricity to the most homes across Indian 
Country. Projects may range from implementation-ready to ones that 
require support to develop implementation capacity. Technical 
assistance will be provided to further support the Tribes as they work 
through their communities' projects with focus on those Tribes that 
lack sufficient project development and implementation capacity.
    The Department has been coordinating and collaborating as 
appropriate with other federal agencies in the implementation of BIL 
and IRA funds. The need for coordination has been a consistent theme in 
consultations with Tribes and supports our commitment to ensure these 
historic investments reach as many homes as possible. We have worked 
closely with the Department of Energy, Federal Emergency Management 
Agency, and Department of Agriculture to coordinate our consultations 
and funding announcements. We will continue to coordinate and host 
joint listening sessions as appropriate.
Conclusion
    The Department commends the work of Congress to enact the IRA and 
BIL with historic funding and we look forward to continuing our work 
with Tribes, our federal partners, and the Committee to ensure the 
energy needs of Tribes are met.

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Newland.
    I will also note that you finished a minute early, which I 
think is an historic moment. Not for you in particular, but 
just generally speaking.
    [Laughter.]
    The Chairman. Dr. Hogan, we as you know expanded the DOE's 
Tribal Energy Loan Program in the IRA to get tribes access to 
low-cost credit. But tribes are being turned away if they 
receive some grant funding for the project and need the DOE 
loan to cover the remaining costs. Why?
    Dr. Hogan. Under our loan guarantee program, there are 
provisions against something called double dipping. This is 
something we would be happy to work with you further on so that 
we --
    The Chairman. Hold on a second. Provisions?
    Dr. Hogan. Provisions.
    The Chairman. Is it a rule?
    Dr. Hogan. It is in statute, yes. There is a rule that has 
been provided from Congress that does not allow the use of 
certain, of Federal funding in two different ways for the same 
project.
    There are ways that we have been working to get through 
these types of things in terms of how you define a project. We 
can guide the Indian tribes into how to structure things like 
that.
    But we would really enjoy sitting down and working with you 
on better ways that we can navigate this and improve the access 
to the tribal loan program.
    The Chairman. Go ahead, if he was advising you.
    Dr. Hogan. That is explicitly in the IRA, yes, the 
constraints in which we are working through are explicitly in 
the Inflation Reduction Act.
    The Chairman. Let me ask you a question the other way, 
because I have a bill of particulars. We gathered it from 
Indian Country, Native Hawaiian organizations and Alaska Native 
organizations. I just want to stay at the conceptual level 
here, because I don't have access to all the statutes, and I 
left my law degree in the car.
    Would you agree that not all of the impediments that are 
being presented to Indian Country in particular in terms of 
participating in these programs are either in rule or statute, 
but some of them are customs, procedures, practices, sort of 
muscle memory about who you provide resources to and who you 
don't, and not kind of understanding the unique configuration 
of tribes?
    Just to give you an example, the requirement that S&P, for 
instance, to a creditworthiness of a tribe who has land in 
trust, now, if you are a big nation and you have lots of land 
and lots of casinos, you can go to S&Ps and get a AAA rating. 
But a lot of these tribes, and by design we decided to push 
this money out to small communities, to rural communities.
    So to ask them to, what, get a bunch of lawyers, go to Wall 
Street, do a presentation? I was in State government, you go up 
to Wall Street, you say, here is our balance sheet, here is our 
collateral, and look how creditworthy we are, and can you give 
us that AAA rating so we can borrow. Nobody can do that if they 
are a small tribe.
    So the broader question I have for you is, can you at least 
concede that some of the problems are on your end and not 
solely the new problem for Congress to solve? Because the 
frustration here is that you have asked us for multiple things, 
and we keep doing the things that you ask us for, and now you 
are telling me, well, if you want that problem solved, you need 
to change the statute again. What problems are yours that you 
need to fix?
    Dr. Hogan. Let me be clear. Can we do a better job? We can 
always do a better job.
    The Chairman. In what ways?
    Dr. Hogan. Well, first, let's just get a little bit more of 
the landscape mapped out with regard to the Tribal Energy Loan 
Guarantee Program. It has been on the books for a number of 
years. The direct funding need was real.
    But when it was first put in place, it was put in place for 
a year. We did not get much interest from the people that would 
take advantage of that when you only have a one-year runway 
given----
    The Chairman. I get it. That is why we fixed that. So my 
question is----
    Dr. Hogan. So now----
    The Chairman. Hold on. My question is just a more general 
one. Let's just pretend it is the two of us talking about this. 
What do you guys need to fix?
    Dr. Hogan. Well, right now, we are implementing what you 
have given us as this new tool, which is a great new tool, 
which is the permanence of the direct funding that goes with 
this.
    As I have said, we have done close to 300 outreach 
engagements with tribes. We have four projects in the pipeline 
now that are real. We have several more that we believe are in 
the sort of pre-application stage. We are assisting the tribes 
in numerous ways from the pre-application stage----
    The Chairman. I hear you.
    Dr. Hogan. Okay. We actually believe, given that the IRA 
was put in place with this more permanent place, as of last 
August, and the complexity of these projects, they are complex, 
that we are getting some great examples through the program 
right now which we are committed to get through and get in 
place so that you can turn around and really have good models 
for more tribes and more tribal----
    The Chairman. I hear you. But I am just going to ask the 
question one final time. Is there anything that you think that 
the Department of Energy ought to fix? Just name one thing that 
you guys think you are not doing well enough on that you need 
to do better.
    Or is it that all of the tribal organizations and Native 
organizations and my staff and everyone that I am hearing from 
just has it all wrong? You guys are doing this perfectly, and 
to the extent that there is an implementation problem, all you 
need is new statutes, more money, or it is DOI's fault, it is 
the White House's fault?
    Just name one thing that you think you should fix.
    Dr. Hogan. Please don't misinterpret me as saying that we 
are doing everything perfectly.
    The Chairman. Right. So give me an example of something you 
need to work on.
    Dr. Hogan. We are out there working to engage. Can we 
engage more? Can we engage more often? Absolutely. Can we try 
to connect the dots and help more tribes?
    The Chairman. I am actually trying to bail you out here. I 
am trying to offer you an off-ramp where you can say, look, I 
think we haven't done this particular thing as well as we 
could, and we are going to work on it. But you can't give me a 
specific example of anything you think you should fix that 
doesn't require someone else to take action first. So I would 
just like an example of something you need to work on.
    Senator Cortez Masto, happy birthday. Your witness.

           STATEMENT OF HON. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO, 
                    U.S. SENATOR FROM NEVADA

    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you. I appreciate that.
    Let me follow up. As an attorney, I am curious what is the 
double dipping provision in the IRA. Do you have specifically 
the statute that prevents a tribal community from getting a 
loan as well as a grant for the same energy? What is that 
provision? Do you have that specifically?
    Dr. Hogan. There is a provision in the Inflation Reduction 
Act that says that the funding that is provided to tribes 
cannot also take, access the funds that are provided in other 
ways. So we can get you that provision.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Please provide that to me. Because 
that was not the intention when we passed the Inflation 
Reduction Act. If the attorneys are interpreting it that way, I 
would like to see it as well. I appreciate that. Thank you.
    I think we are all in agreement, this is such an important 
issue for our tribes, to get the money out there to them in a 
manner that that can receive it. They have challenges, 
technical assistance challenges, staffing challenges, so many 
others. We are hoping that both of your agencies are providing 
that information to the tribes, but also educating them about 
what is available.
    So that is the first question I have, are you educating 
them? What types of education and outreach are you doing for 
our tribes across the Country to make sure they are aware that 
this is happening and these monies are available?
    Two, is it a workforce issue? Do we need to understand that 
you have a staffing issue? These are new programs, additional 
money that is out there. Is it a staffing issue for your 
agencies to be able to do the outreach and talk to our tribal 
communities, Native communities across the Country?
    Dr. Hogan, let me start with you, and then I will go to Mr. 
Newland.
    Dr. Hogan. Thank you for that. BIL and IRA did give the 
Department of Energy close to $90 billion to put to work with a 
fair amount of that to, either eligible to or formula to tribal 
country. So as one can imagine, there is a staffing effort that 
we are going through to staff up and be ready to field and 
support and provide TA and do outreach around that flow of 
money.
    Much of the money that we are putting out the door, it 
really isn't through formula, it is through the design and then 
the fielding of competitive solicitations, which takes a fair 
amount of work to go out and consult and engage and figure out 
how to do it right.
    We believe that we are working very hard to balance the 
urgency of the need with getting it right. Because you do need 
input from the stakeholders on the ground in the design phase 
of all of this work.
    That said, as we sit here today, we have staffed up quite 
considerably, I would say, at a record pace for what the 
challenge is that we have and the work that we have to do. We 
have engaged really substantially in outreach in tribal country 
around each of the major provisions that we engage with them 
on, from the grid resilience provisions to, as I highlighted 
earlier, the electrification rebates provisions where we are 
consulting now.
    And we have done that any number of ways, by being at 
tribal conferences, by webinars that are targeted regionally, 
by broad tribal consultative events. We have been actively 
engaging, doing outreach really from day one.
    I think the other great asset that is at the Department of 
Energy that goes beyond the BIL and the IRA work is our Office 
of Indian Energy, which you all have supported tremendously 
over the years, and continues to grow in terms of what it can 
deliver on the ground with outreach and helping tribal entities 
get ready for what these other opportunities are.
    It has been growing in budget and people as well, providing 
no-cost technical assistance for tribes to think through the 
types of projects that make sense on their ground and put them 
in the driver's seat relative to these other opportunities.
    Senator Cortez Masto. I only have so much time. Assistant 
Secretary Newland, same to you, staffing issues if you have 
any, and then what types of outreach are you providing.
    Mr. Newland. Thank you, Senator. We do face staffing 
challenges in the BIA, but a lot of that is, to go back to the 
Chairman's question about what you can do better, hiring faster 
is a challenge we face. I know it is common across Federal 
agencies, so it is not necessary a funding issue.
    But that is one of the reasons why we have elected, with 
our electrification program, to use the 638 contract as the 
vehicle. Because we have the staffing in place to move those 
funds, and there is a well-worn path.
    When it comes to outreach, the tribes, one of the 
frustrations, actually, that I have heard with, I am not being 
facetious, tribes say that sometimes they get too much 
consultation from us, or that it they are getting flooded with 
these notices.
    So we have tried to tailor our outreach to tribes to 
account for that, and in instances like this do direct outreach 
with our regional staff right to tribes, particularly for a 
program like this in Alaska, at Navajo Nation and in the 
Southwest where we know there is a higher concentration of 
tribes with unelectrified homes.
    Senator Cortez Masto. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Vice Chair Murkowski?
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you.
    Secretary Newland, or to you, Dr. Hogan, with regard to 
this outreach, because I do think that this is something where 
sometimes the agencies just expect the tribes to come to them. 
And again, you have incoming, you have so much coming at you 
that you can't sort it through it to know. It is not 
straightforward most of the time.
    One of the challenges that we have in Alaska, just as it is 
difficult to get things in, you have to fly barrels of fuel in 
at the end of winter, it is equally difficult to get things 
out. So I think sometimes people go out to rural Alaska and are 
just horrified as what they view as junk, a broken-down snow 
machine. But the fact of the matter is that broken-down snow 
machine is like your NAPA auto body store right there, because 
I am going to need these parts for something else.
    But we also have things like batteries out there, things 
that we really don't want to have sitting out there. How can we 
do more when we think about recycling? We have some 
opportunities within the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, you 
have opportunities for partnering with tribes in battery, 
certainly recycling grants.
    How realistically are we getting to the tribes to share 
with them that these are opportunities to take advantage of? 
Because we are looking at some appropriations requests right 
now where we are trying to help with this whole backhaul 
effort, because we have to get the stuff out. Somebody is going 
to gain an advantage of that, but it may as well be the tribes.
    How are we doing that outreach?
    Mr. Newland. Thank you, Vice Chair. Again, within the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs, we have the general ``dear tribal 
leader'' letters that we issue. But I have been on the 
receiving end of those, and they come, several of them come a 
day, it seems like. So we try to follow that up with calls.
    Senator Murkowski. So you don't consider that outreach, do 
you?
    Mr. Newland. It is a part of it. It is an important part of 
it. In Alaska in particular, we also rely on our regional 
office staff to call tribal leaders directly. Also, consortia 
and other partner organizations to help get the word out on 
things like what you are discussing.
    In this Administration, particularly going back to the ARP 
and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, we have also assisted 
partner agencies in doing that outreach directly because a lot 
of tribes at the staff level have familiarity with our staff. 
They may not recognize the number calling from another agency, 
or they may not recognize the person.
    So we have also opened our doors to our colleagues at other 
agencies to assist in that outreach, and we will continue to do 
so.
    Senator Murkowski. Let me ask you, Dr. Hogan, I know we are 
focused on the Inflation Reduction Act, the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law. But we implemented the Energy Act of 2020 
and laid some groundwork for improving tribal access to the 
energy programs there. And we did a couple of things for tribes 
and ANCs in particular.
    First, the Act lowered the cost share requirements to 10 
percent for grants and technical assistance programs in DOE 
Office of Indian Energy. Then we also expanded the definition 
of tribal lands to include ANCSA lands.
    Now that DOE has pretty substantial financial resources for 
technical assistance grants under the Bipartisan Infrastructure 
Law, do you anticipate that there is going to be greater use of 
the reduced 10 percent cost share requirement?
    Dr. Hogan. I think we are looking at continuing to use that 
cost share reduction opportunity for the type of work that we 
are doing there. A lot of that is the formative technical 
assistance that tribes need to get organized around how they 
want to think about their energy future. Certainly, we want to 
be able to meet as many tribes as possible where they are.
    Senator Murkowski. If you have greater resources, it would 
seem to me reasonable that this would certainly free that up. 
Would you not agree?
    Dr. Hogan. Absolutely.
    Senator Murkowski. And then can you assure me that the 
Alaska Native Corporation, ANCSA lands, will absolutely be 
covered by the DOE programs?
    Dr. Hogan. They will be covered wherever we can. I know 
there is a little bit of --
    Senator Murkowski. Well, let me just clarify. Because we 
did expand the definition of tribal lands to include ANCSA 
lands.
    Dr. Hogan. Yes, in the Energy Policy Act of 2020. So 
wherever the statute supports it, we are there. I know that 
there is an issue with our grid resiliency provision in terms 
of whether it can go to any entity other than directly to a 
tribe. We are trying to work through what those issues are, 
including helping them understand how to go and use third 
parties to help them get their work done. But there is still a 
little bit of, I don't know, unnecessary complication there.
    Senator Murkowski. I would just suggest that there should 
be no unnecessary or necessary complications when we have 
specifically expanded the definition of tribal lands to include 
ANCSA lands. We did it, it was pretty clear. There shouldn't be 
any ambiguity to it. To us, that is legislative intent, and it 
is specified, so it should be easy and we would expect the DOE 
to include and absolutely cover ANCs within those DOE programs.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Senator Smith?

                 STATEMENT OF HON. TINA SMITH, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM MINNESOTA

    Senator Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Vice Chair Murkowski.
    Mr. Newland, I wanted to acknowledge, with the support of 
the Chair and Vice Chair, you came out to Minnesota last 
summer, I think it was, and we had a field hearing to talk 
about the opportunities in the Infrastructure and Jobs Act. It 
was before we passed the IRA.
    I know that Minnesota tribes really appreciated having you 
there. One of the biggest topics of conversation we had was the 
struggles that tribal nations face, especially smaller ones, 
trying to figure out how to engage with this octopus of the 
Federal Government, an octopus that often reaches out all of 
its arms in so many ways, doesn't always understand what it is 
reaching out to, which is tribal nations that have their own 
way of doing things.
    I thought we had a really good conversation. We talked 
about the need for, all the needs that Minnesota tribes have to 
try to participate in the Infrastructure and Jobs Act. I am 
wondering maybe if we could take this a different way. Could 
you describe, if there is anything that you learned from that 
experience or other similar conversations you have had that 
have caused you or others in the agencies to change the way you 
do things in order to make the implementation of these bills 
work better for tribal nations?
    Mr. Newland. Thank you, Senator. It was just the other day 
I had to call a different large organization and I was getting 
passed from person to person, or told no, call this person at 
this department. I think everybody understands how maddening 
that is.
    Senator Smith. Yes. Particularly if you are a small 
organization, you don't have big grant-writing departments. 
Right.
    Mr. Newland. It is particularly maddening with your 
trustee, when you are a tribe.
    One of the things that the President did early on when he 
came into office was to reconstitute the White House Council on 
Native American Affairs. We meet regularly across agencies. In 
fact, just before I came to this hearing, we finished our 
monthly staff meeting.
    One of the things we try to do, we are not perfect yet, but 
we try to do, is to make sure there is no wrong door to the 
Federal Government, that there is no wrong number. So if folks, 
a lot of times folks call the BIA and they say, I need to get 
hold of somebody at the Department of Energy, or they will call 
IHS and ask for somebody at the Department of Labor.
    So what we have tried to do through the White House Council 
is to make sure that we are all communicating regularly and 
that we can pass people along to the right person. We don't 
want that ``it is not my job'' mentality. It is especially 
important when we are talking about the funding investments 
that Congress has made in these laws, and the timelines 
associated with them.
    So that is one of the things we are trying to do. We heard 
it when we were in Minnesota, and we hear it all the time.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. I want to touch on something else 
you mentioned. You talked about how BIA is using your 638 
contracting authority, which is the self-governance process 
that works. Could you talk about how you think 638 authority 
might help other agencies to work more efficiently and 
effectively with tribal nations?
    Mr. Newland. Absolutely, thank you, Senator. I think that 
is an authority that we have had a lot of practiced at the BIA, 
over half a century now, with that.
    But the concept is new to other agencies. It really ensures 
that tribes have the flexibility to take these funds and design 
how they are used at the ground level. It also comes with the 
contract supports costs oftentimes, which helps with the 
staffing and the capacity at the tribal level to make sure 
program dollars aren't swallowed up in the staff.
    And the third thing is that it allows the money to move 
very quickly once you have the agreements in place. So rather 
than a competitive grant process, that is a way to make sure 
these funds get to tribes, allow them to design how they are 
used on the ground, support their own capacity, and it gets it 
done quickly.
    Senator Smith. Thank you. I will just mention, Mr. Chair, 
that I think there is an opportunity for us to make 
improvements and expand 638 authority to other agencies.
    But let me close. Dr. Hogan, I want to say, I don't have a 
question for you, but I have had a lot of experience since I 
have come to the Senate working with Federal agencies and 
trying to act, myself, as a bit of a translator between what 
tribes are trying to accomplish and what they encounter with 
Federal agencies.
    To what Senator Schatz was saying, and I am not speaking 
even directly about the Department of Energy, I have often run 
into the experience of like people speaking two different 
languages.
    I have to also say that I have found in some agencies, 
again, I am not even speaking of the Department of Energy, an 
unwillingness to speak the language of the tribes. I am not 
talking about literally, I am talking about directly, so that 
problems can be solved.
    This is what I think Senator Schatz is discussing and 
trying to bring out. You have explicit authority, and then 
there are ways of solving problems that you can work on if you 
try to understand what the issues are. I have had many 
experiences of talking with Federal agency folks who will say, 
I don't have explicit authority to do that, and therefore I 
cannot solve this problem. That is incredibly frustrating, 
because it often feels as if there are, those problems are 
solved in other places in other ways.
    So in response to Senator Schatz' frustration, which I also 
feel, we should be working together to try to figure out how we 
can solve some of these problems without looking for statutory 
changes that means that we enter into another cycle of 
honestly, frustration for people who feel that because of our 
trust and treaty relationships with these tribal nations, we 
should be in a position from the get-go of meeting people's 
needs.
    Dr. Hogan. Thank you very much for that. Again, I think we 
are trying to hear from the stakeholders on what their issues 
are, and I think over the last number of months, we have 
executed on any number of things that you would not have found 
the Department doing five years ago.
    So if we hear of a problem that we think we can be creative 
around within our statute and solve it, we are doing it. As we 
have said, we are putting on, we have application templates to 
streamline it, we are putting mail-in applications in place. We 
are using the prize authority you all gave us years ago in a 
way to have very low burden ways to help communities move 
forward and execute, develop plans and execute on plans.
    So again, we really want to hear what it is you are hearing 
so we can continue to figure out creative solutions to these 
things.
    The Chairman. Dr. Hogan, I want to give you a hypothetical. 
A tribe has a $25 million energy project. They get $10 million 
in grant money. They can round up $5 million on their own. And 
they want to make up the remaining delta, the last $10 million, 
with a loan program.
    Now, my understanding of this law preventing so-called 
double dipping is to say, you, tribe, you, entity, cannot get 
paid twice for the same thing, not that you are not permitted 
to have multiple sources of Federal funding.
    So when you do a housing project, you might have a capital 
stack that includes a community service block grant, a 
community development block grant, and a LIHTC. Then you might 
end up with Section 8 vouchers, tons of Federal funding coming 
in.
    That is not double dipping. Double dipping is, you get the 
same dollar amount to cover the same costs twice. Right? And 
what we are hearing is that this prohibition on double dipping 
is being interpreted in an extremely punitive way and in an 
extremely restrictive way that is unique to this situation.
    I would just ask, to the extent that it is colorable, to 
the extent that this is a close call, that if you have the 
Committee on Indian Affairs here saying, that is not what we 
meant when we said don't double dip, what we said is, you can't 
get, let's say it is a $10 million project, and you get a $10 
million loan and a $10 million grant. You can't do that.
    But if you are just creating a capital stack, every 
municipality does that. States do that, non-profits do that, 
the for-profit sector does that.
    So to the extent that it is colorable, all I am asking you 
to do is to go back and huddle with your lawyers and try to 
make a determination about whether the statute is clear. 
Because I have some pretty good experts here on Indian law in 
particular, and they think that although your interpretation is 
plausible, it is not the only one that you could arrived at. 
There is a basic principle in Indian law that when it is a 
close call, you interpret the law to the benefit of Indian 
Country.
    I don't see that happening here. I would like your 
thoughts.
    Dr. Hogan. We are happy to take that back and take another 
look. I think we like to believe that we too, when there is 
ambiguity, that we solve that ambiguity in a way that benefits 
the people that the law is there to benefit. So we are happy to 
take that back, take another look and come back and talk with 
you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Senator Lujan?

               STATEMENT OF HON. BEN RAY LUJAN, 
                  U.S. SENATOR FROM NEW MEXICO

    Senator Lujan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to 
our Vice Chairman for this hearing and to our panel for being 
with us today.
    Dr. Hogan, like you, and I hope like everyone in this room, 
I am very concerned about the lack of basic utilities for too 
many brothers and sisters across the Country. Friends that 
don't live far from where I live, constituents that I am 
honored to represent, projects where children are asked to draw 
pictures of where water comes from and several of those 
children will show pictures of a pickup truck with a tank 
behind it, or of a loved one having to carry a pail of water 
from a river. Some children will draw water coming from a 
faucet, but not all of them.
    Electricity, broadband, wastewater, this just isn't right, 
not in our incredible Country. That is where some of my 
concerns are, I am looking for some direction from both of you 
here. It starts around this study. It is my understanding that 
the Department of Energy Act of 2020 to conduct research and 
report back the status of access to electricity amongst tribal 
homes is why we are here. My understanding is this report is 
almost finalized and will be released to Congress soon. Is that 
correct?
    Dr. Hogan. Fairly soon, yes.
    Senator Lujan. In a week, a month, a year?
    Dr. Hogan. Less than a year, more than a week.
    Senator Lujan. I appreciate that.
    Dr. Hogan, my understanding is that 16,805 figure for the 
total number of unelectrified tribal homes that Assistant 
Secretary Newland noted in his testimony will be in the 
Department's final report. Is that true?
    Dr. Hogan. I am sorry, say that again, sir?
    Senator Lujan. One thousand six hundred eight hundred and 
five homes that don't have electricity, that number will be in 
the report?
    Dr. Hogan. That number is in the report, yes.
    Senator Lujan. Dr. Hogan, my understanding is that this 
number is based in part on a poll conducted during one of two 
listening sessions with 217 individuals during the pandemic in 
2021. Is that true?
    Dr. Hogan. It is based on a number of ways that we collect 
information and piece it together. Yes, we have done a number 
of things, including asking for people to report in categories, 
broad categories of what the number of unelectrified homes are, 
yes.
    Senator Lujan. Mr. Chairman, one question I would like to 
submit for the record is to ask for how data was collected, 
then, since I am basing my questions on those polls to 217 
individuals. It is my understanding those were conducted, that 
the polls were conducted virtually.
    Dr. Hogan. There were virtual opportunities for people to 
come and talk to us and provide information that they had on 
electrified homes, yes.
    Senator Lujan. And in person?
    Dr. Hogan. During the pandemic, there were ``dear tribal 
leader'' letters, there were any number of ways that the tribes 
could provide us information over that period of time.
    Senator Lujan. So I am looking for how that information was 
gathered. Because here is my concern, is that if in fact a 
large amount of this data was collected over a virtual line 
that requires electricity, and the question is, how many of you 
don't have electricity, I am missing something. It is similar 
to when people come in and tell me, we had a virtual meeting on 
how many of you don't have broadband.
    Dr. Hogan. I can understand your concern. Certainly, we are 
happy to explain how we collected this data. What you are 
referring to in terms of these virtual sessions was one of a 
multi-faceted approach to collect the data, including that we 
get data in every application that the tribes provide to us 
when they are applying for things, we ask these questions.
    So we really had years of data to really sort of pull 
together. What you are referring to is one of the ways that we 
tried to get another lens on the data that is out there.
    It does turn out, unfortunately, that this is very hard 
data to collect and again, so we are trying multiple avenues to 
try and piece this together and provide the best snapshot we 
can today. But again, it can always be improved.
    Senator Lujan. Mr. Chair and Ms. Vice Chair, this is an 
area where we should have inquiries with IHS, for example, who 
does collect data on wastewater. I have had a terrible time 
also trying to get accurate data on the number of tribal homes 
that don't have electricity or don't have broadband. There 
should be a number so that we make improvements everywhere 
across the Country.
    I venture to say there is more than 16,800 homes on the 
Navajo Nation that don't have electricity. I think that is how 
flawed these numbers are. I am very concerned with the amount 
of investment that is being made across the Country that we 
don't have accurate data to measure from, so we can make 
improvements and progress in every corner of Indian Country.
    I know my time is expired, Mr. Chairman. One thing I hope 
to explore, well, Mr. Newland, back in 2014, the Bureau of 
Indian Affairs conducted a rulemaking around a CFR, 169, is 
that the number? I think it is CFR 169, that was looking at the 
difference between distribution power lines, transmission power 
lines, and easements. The CFR requires connectivity from an 
investor-owned utility or cooperative into tribal lands. But it 
also allows for a perpetual easement.
    The question at the time, where different tribes and 
Pueblos, they were on different sides of the rulemaking, but 
the question was, is there a difference between distribution 
and transmission. As a former public utility commissioner, my 
answer to that question would be yes. There is a difference 
between distribution and transmission.
    Especially distribution, who will get power to the end 
user, connecting whatever the substation is from the 
transformer and then providing that path of power to connect 
more tribal households, for example.
    I don't know what the conclusion was there, if there was 
agreement. But it seems to me as we are identifying the number 
of homes that need to be connected that we can make investments 
into, to make progress, one leader at a time. Make sure that we 
respect sovereignty in this space.
    But if there are other areas like that one easement, that 
one rulemaking on connectivity that needs to be addressed, that 
all of that be on the table as we are looking to make these 
improvements with permitting and things of that nature. I don't 
know if that one rings a bell, or if there is something you 
might have along those lines.
    Again, thank you for the indulgence, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Vice Chair Murkowski.
    Senator Murkowski. I didn't know whether the Assistant 
Secretary was going to respond to that.
    The Chairman. Oh, sorry.
    Mr. Newland. I can. Thank you, Senator.
    So yes, I am not familiar, I don't have the provisions in 
front of me on the right-of-way regulations. But I am familiar 
with the discussion.
    Just generally speaking on these types of connectivity 
things, we have been looking at all of our administrative 
authorities to speed that process up. We have a national policy 
memo through the BIA to speed up the review of rights-of-ways. 
We are looking at all our categorical exclusions under NEPA 
that we can use to speed this up.
    Also, we have our general regulatory waiver authority that 
we are also looking at to speed up this process, so that those 
rights-of-way can be done more quickly and the money can flow 
more quickly.
    I don't know if that is directly responsive to what you are 
asking.
    Senator Lujan. Mr. Chair, Madam Vice Chair, it is related, 
but not specific. But I appreciate that information and look 
forward to reviewing that as well.
    Thank you for the time.
    The Chairman. Vice Chair?
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Hogan, a couple of final questions for you. These 
relate to the grid resilience State and tribal grant program 
that has been mentioned. So the deadline to apply for the first 
round of funding now has been extended to May 31st to give 
tribes more time to apply through non-electronic means, which 
was good.
    Are you hearing from tribes that this extended deadline, 
May 31st, is going to be achievable for them?
    Dr. Hogan. We believe that this is achievable, but we have 
also, we will continue to work with them so that they can apply 
for the dollars that should be going to them. As you know, this 
is the first two years' worth of these dollars. We will be 
providing additional opportunities for the appropriated dollars 
to come in the future as well.
    So we will be continuing to refine these procedures so that 
they can take advantage of these funds.
    Senator Murkowski. Speaking about refining the procedures, 
of course you are familiar with the, in Alaska, the tribal 
consortia, and how they really are able to harness economies of 
scale. We expected to see consortium applications in the grid 
resilience program, and other infrastructure programs within 
the Infrastructure Bill. My staff has told me, and leadership 
at AFN have told me that they have reached out to your grid 
deployment office and were told that you are not awarding these 
applications to consortia.
    Now, you have other agencies, you have IHS, you have NTIA, 
the Telecommunications Information Administration, they are 
also implementing the Infrastructure Law. They are allowing 
tribal consortia applications.
    So the question is whether DOE will work with the tribes to 
award consortium applications and allow them to administer and 
thus ensure compliance.
    Dr. Hogan. This is what I was referring to earlier, that we 
are working hard to work through with the tribes, so that they 
can designate these third-party administrators and they can 
work on regional projects together within the way that the 
statute is structured. This statute is structured somewhat 
differently than other agency statutes that you are mentioning.
    Senator Murkowski. I understand what you have just said. I 
guess I would just ask you to understand that in Alaska, the 
model really has become one of trying to build out these 
efficiencies, these economies of scale. That is what these 
consortia are able to do. They are able to build capacity so 
that these many, many much smaller and much less advantaged 
tribes, they are the most disadvantaged, they are the ones that 
need it most, and yet they have the least capacity to do it.
    So when we are able to come together through these 
consortia, it makes a world of difference. So as you are 
working to advance this program, please understand that the 
reason they are allowing consortia in NTIA and through IHS is 
because this is what works. This is what works, and this is 
what gains the greatest efficiency.
    And speaking of efficiency, I am also told that DOE is 
requiring tribes to issue quarterly reports on the use of these 
grid resiliency grants. That is tough on your small tribes. 
Tough, when you have limited resources and even more limited 
manpower.
    Department of Treasury only requires annual reports for 
most, if not all, tribal programs within ARPA, within the 
American Rescue Plan. I have been asked to be the liaison to 
you to ask whether or not the Department would consider a more 
reasonable reporting time frame for tribes like we have done 
under the American Rescue Plan. They don't think that makes 
sense.
    Dr. Hogan. We are happy to take that back and take another 
look.
    Senator Murkowski. I would encourage you to do that.
    And then the last comment on this is, again, relating to 
cost match. I understand that DOE is going to impose 100 
percent cost match on tribes that elect to build their grid 
project if their partner utility cannot provide the required 15 
percent cost share.
    In Alaska, again, with small tribes, it is complicated, but 
most utilities are also small and simply can't afford the 
match. But it seems that penalizing a tribe for doing the work 
basically by themselves seems like you are not really working 
to promote tribal self-determination, self-governance. So I 
would ask again if you could look into adjusting these cost 
share requirements before the May 31st deadline.
    Dr. Hogan. Again, we are happy to get together with you and 
put our heads together on what these legal issues are, as we 
see them and as you see them, and see what we can work out. 
This is a place where we have just had a lot and a lot and a 
lot of conversation in the building and I am happy to share 
what we are seeing and figure out what we think the options are 
here.
    Senator Murkowski. So, do you see that there is a legal 
impediment----
    Dr. Hogan. Yes.
    Senator Murkowski--with reduction of a cost share 
requirement?
    Dr. Hogan. Based on--yes, we do.
    Senator Murkowski. I would ask that our teams sit down and 
talk about this, because as we are talking about it, you have a 
deadline that is coming up with opportunities for grant funding 
that is going to make a difference to tribes. But we have to 
get it out the door, or it makes zero difference for the 
tribes.
    So if we can resolve some of these things quickly to allow 
for these applications to be submitted, and again, to take 
advantage of this, that is where we are going to make a 
difference. If I can ask you to have our folks get together as 
soon as possible, I would appreciate that.
    Dr. Hogan. Absolutely. We would love to solve this.
    Senator Murkowski. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. If there are no further questions for our 
witnesses, members will submit follow-up questions for the 
record. The hearing record will be open for two weeks. I want 
to thank our witnesses for their time and their testimony 
today.
    This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:06 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

 Prepared Statement of the United South and Eastern Tribes Sovereignty 
                            Protection Fund
    The United South and Eastern Tribes Sovereignty Protection Fund 
(USET SPF) is pleased to provide the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs 
(SCIA) with the following testimony for the record of the March 29, 
2023 hearing on, ``The Future of Tribal Energy Development: 
Implementation of the Inflation Reduction Act and the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law.'' USET SPF appreciates SCIA's focus on evaluating 
how various Tribal programs authorized under the Inflation Reduction 
Act (IRA) and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) are being 
implemented across Indian Country. Enactment of the IRA and BIL 
included historic investments in infrastructure projects and programs. 
During the hearing, SCIA acknowledged the historic injustices Tribal 
Nations have experienced in the exploitation of our resources for the 
benefit of the United States and that a course correction is needed to 
address the disparities in energy access for our communities and 
citizens. Moving forward, Congress must understand that the historic 
investments made by the IRA, BIL, and other laws, while appreciated, do 
not correct the historic injustices or represent a Marshall Plan for 
Tribal Nations as some in the policy arena have suggested. Indian 
Country's lack of access to affordable energy services, among many 
other critical infrastructures, are the direct result of centuries of 
the U.S.'s neglect and failure to fulfill trust and treaty obligations 
to fully fund Indian programs and services. It is important to 
recognize and remember that these obligations exist in perpetuity due 
to the cession of vast land holdings and natural resources by Tribal 
Nations, oftentimes by force.
    USET Sovereignty Protection Fund (USET SPF) is a non-profit, inter-
tribal organization advocating on behalf of thirty-three (33) federally 
recognized Tribal Nations from the Northeastern Woodlands to the 
Everglades and across the Gulf of Mexico. \1\ USET SPF is dedicated to 
promoting, protecting, and advancing the inherent sovereign rights and 
authorities of Tribal Nations and in assisting its membership in 
dealing effectively with public policy issues.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ USET SPF member Tribal Nations include: Alabama-Coushatta Tribe 
of Texas (TX), Catawba Indian Nation (SC), Cayuga Nation (NY), 
Chickahominy Indian Tribe (VA), Chickahominy Indian Tribe-Eastern 
Division (VA), Chitimacha Tribe of Louisiana (LA), Coushatta Tribe of 
Louisiana (LA), Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians (NC), Houlton Band of 
Maliseet Indians (ME), Jena Band of Choctaw Indians (LA), Mashantucket 
Pequot Indian Tribe (CT), Mashpee Wampanoag Tribe (MA), Miccosukee 
Tribe of Indians of Florida (FL), Mi'kmaq Nation (ME), Mississippi Band 
of Choctaw Indians (MS), Mohegan Tribe of Indians of Connecticut (CT), 
Monacan Indian Nation (VA), Nansemond Indian Nation (VA), Narragansett 
Indian Tribe (RI), Oneida Indian Nation (NY), Pamunkey Indian Tribe 
(VA), Passamaquoddy Tribe at Indian Township (ME), Passamaquoddy Tribe 
at Pleasant Point (ME), Penobscot Indian Nation (ME), Poarch Band of 
Creek Indians (AL), Rappahannock Tribe (VA), Saint Regis Mohawk Tribe 
(NY), Seminole Tribe of Florida (FL), Seneca Nation of Indians (NY), 
Shinnecock Indian Nation (NY), Tunica-Biloxi Tribe of Louisiana (LA), 
Upper Mattaponi Indian Tribe (VA) and the Wampanoag Tribe of Gay Head 
(Aquinnah) (MA).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    USET SPF shares SCIA's concerns regarding issues with non-
duplication restrictions on federal funds included in the IRA, BIL, and 
other laws, and the restrictive, narrow interpretations of these 
provisions by federal agencies to limit, if not outright prohibit, 
Tribal Nations from accessing these critical infrastructure funds. 
Additionally, accelerated deadlines to apply for these funds, 
unnecessary reporting requirements, and shortages of federal agency 
staff knowledgeable in working with Tribal Nations and able to provide 
technical assistance are all issues that have slowed or prohibited 
Tribal Nations from applying for and obtaining these vital 
infrastructure dollars. USET SPF strongly recommends that SCIA, 
Congress, and the Administration address and correct these barriers to 
accessing critical funds for all infrastructure projects as 
implementation of these and other laws continues. Furthermore, we 
strongly recommend that SCIA and Congress exercise oversight in 
ensuring federal agencies interpret laws for the benefit of Tribal 
Nations and apply the Indian Canons of Construction during Tribal 
consultation, the policymaking process, and beyond.
Issues with Non-Duplication Restrictions on Federal Funds
    In several of the recent COVID-19 relief laws, the IRA, and BIL, 
provisions have been included to prevent the non-duplication of federal 
funds for infrastructure projects. Referred to as ``double dipping'' 
provisions during the March 29th hearing, these non-duplication 
restrictions have been interpreted by federal agencies to prevent 
Tribal Nations from utilizing multiple federal funding sources for a 
single infrastructure project. As SCIA aptly acknowledged during the 
hearing, it was not Congress's intent to limit the stacking of multiple 
federal capital funding sources to meet the total amount of funding 
needed for an infrastructure project. Rather, it was to ensure that, 
for instance, a $10 million federal grant and a $10 million federal 
loan could not be obtained to cover the costs of a single $10 million 
project.
    Non-duplication of federal funds language was included in the 
establishment of the Tribal Broadband Connectivity Grant (TBCG) Program 
administered by the National Telecommunications and Information 
Administration (NTIA). The Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2021 
(P.L. 116-260), specifically Sec. 905(c)(2), included non-duplication 
language restrictions on entities eligible to receive NTIA TBCG Program 
funds in combination with funding received from the Universal Service 
Fund (USF) administered by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). 
Under P.L. 116-260, NTIA was directed to coordinate with the FCC to 
ensure that there was no duplication of federal funding for broadband 
support in the TBCG Program for Census tracts receiving FCC USF 
support. The interpretation of Sec. 905(c)(2) of P.L. 116-260 to limit 
critical broadband funds to unserved Tribal Lands is counterproductive 
to address the broadband access disparities that exist in Indian 
Country and does not uphold the federal government's solemn trust and 
treaty obligations to Tribal Nations. While NTIA worked with Tribal 
Nations to develop flexibility in awarding these funds, the non-
duplication language should not have been included in the law to begin 
with. Moving forward, if any legislation is to include language 
restricting the non-duplication of federal funds, then it should 
explicitly state that Tribal Nations and entities can use multiple 
federal funding sources to meet program and service delivery costs.
    Similarly, another instance where non-duplication restrictive 
language was included in a federal statute was in the American Rescue 
Plan Act of 2021 (P.L. 117-2), specifically in the expansion of 
Treasury's State Small Business Credit Initiative (SSBCI) Program. 
Under P.L. 117-2, the SSBCI Program included a $500 million set-aside 
for Tribal Nations to assist in increasing the availability of small 
business capital in Indian Country. Although there were numerous flaws 
within the statutory language to expand this state-centric and 
structured program to Indian Country, the inclusion of non-duplication 
language did not allow the use of other federal funds to fulfill the 
SSBCI Program's matching requirement. Instead, the SSBCI Program 
required the use of private capital to be leveraged to fulfill the 
program's matching requirement, which, as SCIA is well aware, Indian 
Country has difficulty in obtaining.
    These are just two examples of issues regarding the inclusion of 
non-duplication language in federal statutes and how federal agencies 
have referenced these provisions to prevent Tribal Nations from 
accessing multiple sources of federal funds to meet the costs of 
proposed infrastructure projects. During the March 29th hearing, the 
Department of Energy stated that such non-duplication language was 
included in the IRA for the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee Program. We 
strongly urge SCIA to direct the Department of Energy to reevaluate how 
it interprets the non-duplication language to ensure that Tribal 
Nations can access the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee Program, and all 
programs authorized under the IRA, BIL, and other federal laws, while 
leveraging other federal sources to meet project costs. These actions 
would uphold the federal government's trust and treaty obligations to 
Tribal Nations and support efforts to address critical infrastructure 
disparities that have persisted throughout Indian Country due to the 
chronic underfunding of these obligations.
Interpret Laws for the Benefit of Tribal Nations and Direct Federal 
        Agencies to Implement Section 3 and Section 6 of E.O. 13175
    The use and interpretation of language on non-duplication 
restrictions in federal statutes by federal agencies is a single 
example of how laws and regulations can restrict or prevent Tribal 
Nations from accessing funds across the federal government. For these 
reasons, and others, USET SPF strongly recommends that SCIA and 
Congress direct federal agencies to implement Sections 3 and 6 of 
Executive Order 13175, ``Consultation and Coordination with Indian 
Tribal Governments'' (E.O. 14175). Section 3 of E.O. 13175 includes 
directives to extend ``maximum administrative discretion'' to Tribal 
Nations by encouraging Tribal Nations to develop our own policies and 
standards to achieve program and service delivery objectives as well as 
consult with us on the necessity of any federal standards. Implementing 
this practice will ensure that Tribal Nations are the sole 
decisionmakers on how to utilize federal funds and structure programs 
and services to best serve and address the priorities of our 
communities and citizens. Section 6 of E.O. 13175 encourages the 
federal government to facilitate and streamline Tribal applications for 
waivers of statutory and regulatory requirements. With some notable 
exceptions, this section does not appear to be actively implemented 
across the federal government. Implementation of Section 6 by the 
Department of Energy could address its issues with the non-duplication 
language it has stated was included in the IRA to restrict the use of 
other federal funding sources in combination with the Tribal Energy 
Loan Guarantee Program. Furthermore, we strongly recommend that SCIA 
and Congress direct federal agencies to always apply the Indian Canons 
of Construction during Tribal consultation, the policymaking process, 
and beyond. Any ambiguities in law or policy should be interpreted in 
favor of Tribal Nations.
Support Expanded Tribal 638 Authority Across the Federal Government
    During the March 29th hearing, Assistant Secretary-Indian Affairs 
Bryan Newland stated that to maximize the impact of the $150 million 
authorized under IRA for a new Tribal Electrification Program, the 
Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA) would allocate awards through Indian 
Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act (P.L. 93-638, or 638) 
contract agreements. The 638 contracting and compacting process has a 
proven track record in being critically successful for Tribal Nations 
to administer federal programs and dollars to better serve our citizens 
and communities. While USET SPF fully supports this approach in 
allocating federal dollars for the Tribal Electrification Program, we 
do not support the award of funds through a competitive process, as 
stated in Assistant Secretary Newland's testimony.
    We recognize that this decision was perhaps made due to the limited 
$150 million authorized for the Tribal Electrification Program, but 
funds awarded through 638 agreements should be made equitably to Tribal 
Nations with demonstrated and real deficiencies in access to affordable 
electric services. We strongly recommend that SCIA and Congress consult 
with Tribal Nations and work with the Departments of Energy, the 
Interior, and the federal government as a whole to fully ascertain the 
electricity needs of Indian Country and appropriate the necessary funds 
needed to address these disparities. Furthermore, USET SPF has 
consistently supported and called for an expansion of 638 authority to 
all program and service delivery offerings across the federal 
government. In a December 2022 report (GAO-23-105473) issued by the 
Government Accountability Office (GAO) it highlighted `lessons learned' 
during the COVID-19 pandemic to improve future distribution of federal 
emergency relief to Tribal Nations. GAO found that programs that 
distributed relief funds through existing mechanisms, such as 638 self-
determination compacts and contracts, were effective in expediting the 
distribution of funds and mitigating administrative burdens for federal 
agencies and Tribal Nations. GAO recommended that Congress enable 
federal agencies to distribute future emergency relief funds to Tribal 
Nations using the 638 contract and compact process. Based on GAO's 
findings on the effectiveness of awarding emergency relief funds 
through 638 compacts and contracts, we are hopeful that SCIA and 
Congress will propose and enact legislation to expand 638 authorities 
across all federal programs. This action would adhere to and uphold the 
federal government's trust and treaty obligations to support Tribal 
sovereignty and self-determination by empowering Tribal Nations to 
administer federal programs and prioritize dollars in ways that would 
best benefit our citizens and communities.
Increase Appropriations for Federal Agencies to Hire Additional 
        Personnel and Provide Technical Assistance to Tribal Nations
    Enactment of the COVID-19 relief laws, the American Rescue Plan 
Act, IRA, and BIL have included historic investments in Indian Country. 
However, with the large influx of capital and grant funds to Indian 
Country under these laws, Tribal Nations and our staff have been 
inundated with meeting application deadlines and requirements, issues 
with the high costs associated with completing application and 
reporting requirements, issues with non-duplication restrictions to 
leverage multiple federal funding sources to meet project costs, and 
the inclusion of caps in federal statutes on how much funds can be used 
to cover administrative costs.
    During the March 29th hearing, the Departments of Energy and the 
Interior explained the challenges its agencies have in hiring 
additional personnel to implement programs authorized under these laws, 
as well as limited capabilities to provide technical assistance to 
Tribal Nations. Just as we advocate for fully funding Tribal Nation 
programs, we strongly urge SCIA and Congress to fully appropriate funds 
for these Departments to hire the necessary staff needed to support 
Tribal Nations in accessing these programs as well as providing 
technical assistance to Tribal Nations through all phases of program 
implementation. Furthermore, if Congress were to enact legislation to 
expand 638 authority to all federal programs and service delivery 
offerings, funds for direct Contract Support Costs should be fully 
appropriated, made permanent, and reclassified as mandatory funding to 
support Tribal Nations in administering these programs and funds. 
Federal agencies should also be required to hire self-governance 
experts to assist Tribal Nations in utilizing the 638 process for 
federal programs, as well as inform and educate federal staff on how to 
work with Tribal Nations to apply for and implement a 638 compact or 
contract.
Conclusion
    The federal government has a solemn and moral duty to uphold its 
trust and treaty obligations to Tribal Nations by fully funding 
programs and service delivery that supports our efforts in Nation 
rebuilding. USET SPF has consistently advocated for foundational and 
systemic change to how the federal government appropriates, implements, 
and manages federal programs and service delivery to Indian Country. A 
primary focus and emphasis must be placed on enacting laws and 
developing regulations that support our inherent sovereign authority 
and self-determination to administer federal funds and programs. Tribal 
Nations are best situated to determine how to administer these funds 
and services in a manner that best serves and improves the quality of 
life for our communities and citizens.
    We strongly urge SCIA and Congress to enact legislation to expand 
638 contracting and compacting authority in all federal programs and 
the removal of non-duplication of federal funds language in laws that 
have restricted Tribal Nations from leveraging funds from multiple 
federal sources to meet the costs of infrastructure projects and 
service delivery. We also urge SCIA and Congress to enact legislation 
to fully appropriate, make permanent, and reclassify Contract Support 
Costs as mandatory funding. To fully realize the goals of self-
governance, Congress must enact legislation to advance the next 
evolutionary step in recognizing Tribal sovereignty self-determination. 
SCIA and Congress must ensure that trust and treaty obligations and the 
unique issues affecting Tribal Nations are fully considered and 
prioritized in all legislative packages. This is especially important 
when Congress drafts legislation to expand eligibility for Tribal 
Nations to apply for state-centric and structured programs, as well as 
legislation that may not be Tribal-specific but has implications for 
federal funds and service delivery offerings that Tribal Nations rely 
upon.
                                 ______
                                 
Prepared Statement of the Western States and Tribal Nations Natural Gas 
                               Initiative
    The Western States and Tribal Nations Natural Gas Initiative (WSTN) 
is a state and tribal nation government-led 501(c)4 organization formed 
in 2019 to advance the principles of rural economic development and 
Tribal self-determination through responsible development of energy 
resources. WSTN is led by the tribal governments of the Ute Indian 
Tribe of Uintah and Ouray Reservation, the Southern Ute Indian Tribe 
and the Jicarilla Apache Nation. WSTN's leadership also includes the 
states of Wyoming, New Mexico and Utah; the Colorado Counties of Mesa, 
Rio Blanco, Garfield, and Moffat; and the state of Baja California, 
Mexico. The membership of the Canadian Provincial Government of Alberta 
is pending.
    Since its founding, WSTN has been able to facilitate a multi-state 
and international dialogue with decision makers here in the U.S. and in 
our allied nations in Asia about the benefits and challenges associated 
with the current and emerging energy markets of low-carbon fuels such 
as natural gas, hydrogen, ammonia and their related priorities.
    To advance these goals, our tribal nations and partners in our 
state governments are utilizing investments made available in the 
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) and the Inflation Reduction Act 
(IRA). Specifically, WSTN governments participate in the Western Inter-
state Hydrogen Hub which recently received a favorable recommendation 
for BIL funding from the Department of Energy. Specifically, like our 
organization, this memorandum of understanding will help facilitate a 
regional approach to developing and scaling up hydrogen infrastructure 
to bring lower carbon fuel through our states to our communities and 
allies overseas.
    The development, deployment, and transportation of hydrogen from 
our communities and our western states involves the responsible 
production and transportation of natural gas produced in our 
communities as a feedstock. The investments from Congress in the BIL 
and the IRA have helped make these goals a reality, helping to 
incentivize more private capital and partnerships that are necessary to 
bring our energy to customers.
    Demand in emerging economies is soaring and developed economies are 
readjusting their energy policies to meet net-zero goals. Specifically, 
as Japan leads the G-7 Summit later this year and announces its own 
energy goals, which incorporate a significant interest in American LNG, 
we believe our tribally owned resources have a significant role to play 
at this moment in history.
    The pipelines and other infrastructure needed for a long-term, 
reliable supply of natural gas from our communities to LNG export 
facilities in Mexico and Canada will require hundreds of millions of 
dollars in capital improvements, funded partially by programs in BIL 
and the IRA, and the approval of federal agencies, which will trigger 
substantial review under the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA). 
This is largely due to the patchwork of federally controlled land along 
pipeline and transmission routes, including our federally reserved 
lands. Almost every applicable use of a Tribe's lands requires federal 
approval from the Department of the Interior, Bureau Indian Affairs 
(``BIA''). The Tribes support having an expanded role in evaluating the 
alternatives and environmental consequences of decisions affecting 
their lands and reducing the perpetual delay and expense of NEPA review 
of Tribal decisionmaking. The WSTN member Tribes are interested in a 
NEPA process that would provide certainty to energy development and 
related infrastructure projects so that tribes may develop their 
natural resources to advance the financial security of sovereign tribal 
nations.
    The potential time delays and uncertainty of litigation surrounding 
NEPA must be narrowed in order for clean energy projects, pipeline and 
transmission infrastructure alike, to effectively move forward. In 
fact, the challenges of NEPA pose a substantial impediment to 
realization of the Clean Energy Transition goals of Congress and the 
Biden Administration.
    As the Committee considers legislation to improve implementation of 
these new federal investments and as Congress considers permitting 
reform, we ask that you consider these improvements to permitting of 
the infrastructure necessary to bring emerging energy technologies to 
market and our perspective from sovereign tribal nations.
                                 ______
                                 
    Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. John Hoeven to 
                           Hon. Bryan Newland
    Question 1. The Three Affiliated Tribes of Mandan, Hidatsa and 
Arikara are leaders in oil production, with about 90 percent of the 
tribes' revenue coming from oil production. This helps provide critical 
funding for essential needs like infrastructure and health care. The 
Three Affiliated Tribes have produced as many as 300,000 barrels of oil 
per day; however, production remains down at only 146,949 barrels per 
day. Should we be doing more to help Tribes develop their trust 
resources and empower themselves through energy development?
    Answer. The Department of the Interior (Department) supports Tribal 
sovereignty and economic development to help make lives better for 
people in their communities. It is important that Tribes maintain the 
ability to implement, regulate and benefit from energy development in 
their communities.
    The Department is currently reviewing mineral development leasing 
regulations. If the Department moves forward with the proposed updates, 
it will be done consistent with the Department's policy on tribal 
consultation.

   The Department has taken steps to support Tribes by creating 
        the Indian Energy Service Center (IESC) and transferring the 
        Division of Energy and Mineral Development (DEMO) under the 
        Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA). The DEMO supports Tribes and 
        Indian beneficiaries with the development of their trust 
        resources including minerals, energy, and renewable energy.

    There are currently 10,375 active mineral leases on Indian lands 
encoded into the BIA's Trust Asset and Accounting Management System (T 
AAMS) which is the official system of record of trust title, ownership, 
encumbrances and land records. The breakdown is as follows:

        Mineral Leases by Contract Type

        CA--Coal Lease--4
        FM--Fissionable Material Lease--1
        GA--General Agreement (Other)--15
        GS--Gas Lease--295
        IM--Indian Mineral Development Act--98
        LO--Lease Other--7
        MO--Misc Other--12
        OG--Oil and Gas Lease--8817
        OL--Oil Lease--1054
        PG--Permits (Other)--4
        PP--Prospecting Permit--10
        SG--Sand and Gravel--24
        SS--Subsurface--34

    In contrast, there are currently 46 renewable energy leases on 
Indian lands encoded into TAAMS. The breakdown is as follows:

        Renewable Energy Leases

        Solar--31
        Wind--9
        Hydro--3
        Biomass--1
        Unk--2

    The IESC hosts quarterly Federal Partner Meetings with the Three 
Affiliated Tribes (Tribe) to discuss Indian energy and mineral resource 
development, royalty management coordination, and information exchange 
at the local office level. The departmental bureaus and offices 
represented on the Partnership team operate under the Federal trust 
responsibility to Federally recognized Indian tribes, Indian 
individuals, and Alaska Natives.
    The Department will continue to work with Congress to help Tribal 
Nations further empower themselves through energy development. The 
Department and BIA coordinates and serves on various committees with 
bureaus, federal partners, and the White House Council on Native 
American Affairs (WHCNAA) to deliver opportunities and investments to 
Indian Country. This coordination includes discussion regarding the 
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, also known as the Bipartisan 
Infrastructure Law (BIL), is providing several resources and the 
opportunity to improve services in every Tribal community and advance 
self-determination to Tribes.
    Timely approval of permitting and realty actions are critical to 
infrastructure investment in Indian Country. To this end, BIA recently 
announced an updated National Policy Memorandum (NPM-TRUS-44 Al) which 
streamlines the rights-of-way (ROWs) and business lease application 
process for projects funded by the American Rescue Plan Act and BIL, as 
well as Telecommunications and Renewable Energy Projects. This action 
advances the policy of the BIA to support Tribal Nations in exercising 
their sovereignty to govern their lands and pursue economic self-
sufficiency, conservation practices, and climate resiliency. 
Specifically, this NPM provides clear direction to ensure that ROWs and 
business leases are expedited so there is no unnecessary delay in 
deploying critical infrastructure to Indian country. NPM Link: https://
www.bia.gov/sites/default/files/dup/assets/public/raca/
national_policy_memoranda/pdf/npm-trus-44-al_streamlining-rows-and-
business-lease-applications-amendment-1_final_signed_508_0.pdf
    The Department is also supporting Tribes to confront legacy 
pollution from oil and gas development. The BIL provides $150 million 
for Tribal well plugging, remediation and restoration. Tribes may seek 
funding to undertake the well plugging or may request that the 
Secretary administer the well plugging on behalf of [''in lieu of'] the 
Tribe. The $150 million will be distributed over multiple funding 
opportunities, with an initial $50 million available in fiscal year 
2023. Up to $50 million is available through the 2023 award cycle for 
three categories of projects:

   Tribal Implementation Grants: Funds are available to plug, 
        remediate and reclaim orphaned well sites on the Indian Tribe's 
        respective trust or restricted lands.

   Program Development Grants: Funds are available to assist 
        Tribes in the development or administration of a Tribal program 
        to carry out any activities associated with plugging, 
        remediating, and/or reclaiming orphaned well sites on the 
        Indian Tribe's respective trust or restricted lands.

   ``In Lieu Of' Funding: Tribes have the option to request the 
        Department to administer and carry out plugging, remediation 
        and reclamation activities on the Tribe's behalf.

    Question 2. How will you support Tribes that are seeking to develop 
all of their energy reserves, including their oil trust resources?
    Answer. The BIA offers several programs that support Tribes' 
efforts to develop all types of energy resources, including renewables, 
biomass, distributed generation, hydropower, minerals, and oil and gas. 
Within the BIA, DEMD administers the Energy and Mineral Development 
Program (EMDP) annual competitive grant program, which provides 
financial assistance to Tribes for the evaluation and development of 
energy and mineral resources on their lands. Oil and gas development is 
an eligible resource for funding under this program. The EMDP helps 
Tribes achieve economic independence through development of energy 
resources. Created in 1983, the DEMO provides technical advice to 
Tribes with respect to the location, definition, and development of 
renewable and traditional energy and minerals. The DEMD also helps 
Tribes create sustainable economies through environmentally sound 
development of their energy and mineral resources.
    Established in 2016, the IESC is a multi-agency office that 
utilizes the services of the BIA, Bureau of Land Management, Office of 
Natural Resources Revenue, and Bureau of Trust Funds Administration. 
Each bureau plays a key role in the management of mineral and renewable 
energy resources. The increased coordination and support between these 
key bureaus has alleviated many of the administrative burdens and 
backlogs that were previously present and affecting Tribes and 
individual beneficiaries' development of their trust mineral and energy 
resources. The IESC continues to facilitate coordination between these 
key bureaus and as a result all bureaus are more responsive to the 
needs of the Tribes. As a result of the IESC's efforts, the Department 
has collected and disbursed approximately $1.795 billion in oil and gas 
royalties to Tribes and Indian individuals as of July 26, 2023.
    The IESC and DEMO have worked with the Assistant Secretary--Indian 
Affairs' Office to develop the Renewable Energy Accelerated Deployment 
Initiative for Indian Country (READ!), which aims to inform decision 
makers of Tribal visions and needs regarding renewable energy 
development on Indian lands through Tribal engagement. READI is 
underway and scheduled for implementation by December 2023. READ! will 
provide five hybrid virtual/in-person and two virtual-only listening 
sessions, the first of which took place on August 21, 2023. READ I will 
receive input from Tribes on their future plans for renewable energy 
development and associated needs. At the end of the listening sessions, 
READ! will provide a compilation report for decisionmakers' use to 
allocate resources and program development.

    Question 3. What steps are being taken to help Tribes access and 
navigate federal programs?
    Answer. In addition to the EMDP, the BIA also administers the 
Tribal Energy Development Capacity (TEDC) grant program. This is a 
competitive, discretionary grant program that provides Tribes with the 
necessary resources to develop or enhance Tribal policies, codes, 
regulations, or ordinances for energy resource development. The TEDC 
and EMDP programs have collectively provided grant funding and 
technical assistance to over 200 Tribes via over 600 separate projects 
since its establishment in 1983. Since 2011, the programs have granted 
$40 million.
    The Department also held two consultations with Tribes regarding 
the funding from the Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) to understand the 
unique energy and electrification needs. To assist Tribes in navigating 
the implementation and award process for the BIL and the IRA, the 
Department has also coordinated with other federal agencies, such as 
the Department of Energy, Federal Emergency Management Agency, and 
Department of Agriculture.
    The IESC has also worked with the Office of Environmental Policy 
and Compliance, Orphaned Well Program to administer grants and 
assistance to Tribes looking to remediate abandoned well sites within 
their land. This program will be distributing $50 million in funds for 
2023 and anticipates distributing $100 million more in the next two 
years.
    BIA is also coordinating with the Federal Permitting Improvement 
Steering Committee (FPISC) through a Memorandum of Agreement (MOA) to 
transfer funds for Tribes to support permitting for FAST 41 projects to 
BIA. Within the MOA, BIA will transfer one-time funds to Tribes on 
behalf of the FPISC. BIA will:

   Serve as a pass through as requested by the Tribes during 
        Consultation;

   BIA Office of Trust Services (OTS) will serve as a point of 
        contact (POC) to FPISC on initial transfer;

   BIA will provide support to Tribes in the distribution of 
        the funds;

   OTS will serve as POC to the Government Accountability 
        Office on the distribution of funds;

   OTS will coordinate with the BIA Regions and the Office of 
        Self Governance for response when required.

    Tribes also will be eligible for funding once the Tribal 
Environmental Review Improvement Fund (ERIF) goes live.
    The Department remains committed to working with Tribes, our 
federal partners, and Congress to ensure the energy needs of Tribal 
Nations are met.
                                 ______
                                 
Response to Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Catherine Cortez Masto 
                         to Hon. Bryan Newland
    Question 1. I think workforce development is a crucial part of 
infrastructure, and I think it's an area that's especilly important to 
tribes. Do you see this as a big barrier in native communities and what 
can we be doing with programs like the 477 program as it relates to 
infrastructure?
    Answer. Many Tribal communities face unemployment that is higher 
than non-Tribal communities. Public Law 102-4 77, the Indian 
Employment, Training and Related Services Demonstration Act allows 
federally recognized Tribes and Alaska Native entities to combine 
federal grants implemented for certain purposes (25 U.S.C.  3404(a)) 
into a single plan with a single budget and a single reporting system. 
That single plan, colloquially referred to as the ``477 Program,'' 
integrates employment, training, and related services based on Tribal 
goals and initiatives.
    In 2022, the Department led a multi-agency effort to streamline the 
implementation of Public Law 102-477 to better support Tribal 
sovereignty through the negotiation of an updated Memorandum of 
Agreement (MOA). The Departments of Agriculture, Commerce, Education, 
Energy, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, Housing and Urban 
Development, Justice, Labor, Transportation, and Veterans Affairs each 
signed on to this updated MOA. The Department continues to work with 
each agency to ensure a uniform approach to supporting Tribal 
sovereignty and self-determination in the Tribal use of Public Law 102-
477.
    Public Law 102-477 may be used to build out infrastructure in 
Tribal communities. Tribes have used Public Law 102-477 to construct 
childcare facilities, do minor renovations, and obtain facilities for 
program services. Consolidation of ``477'' services and activities in 
one location reduces the Tribal need to manage multiple locations thus 
significantly reducing overhead costs. Congress can support the 
continued success of Public Law 102-477 by ensuring each agency 
supports Tribes who utilize the 477 Program when disbursing 
infrastructure funds.
    Strong Congressional support for the Bureau of Indian Education 
(BIE) heightens the opportunity for American Indian and Alaska Native 
students to receive a quality education at 183 Bureau-funded elementary 
and secondary schools, located on 64 reservations in 23 states, two 
postsecondary institutions, and through higher education scholarships. 
The investment develops the workforce across Indian Country including 
for advancing infrastructure.
                                 ______
                                 
        *Responses to the following questions were not available at the 
        time this hearing went to print*

     Written Questions Submitted by Hon. Catherine Cortez Masto to 
                           Dr. Kathleen Hogan
    Lead-up: Last Congress, I worked to include a provision in the FY 
2022 Omnibus to bolster the Tribal Energy Loan Guarantee Program by 
allowing the Department of Energy (DOE) to make loans directly to 
Tribes and Tribal energy development organizations through the Federal 
Financing Bank. This was later made permanent by my legislation--the 
Tribal Energy Investment Act--which was included in the Inflation 
Reduction Act (IRA).

    Dr. Hogan--Your written testimony provided an overview of the 
enhancements made to the loan program last year, and highlighted 
meetings and communication that the Department has undertaken since the 
enactment of the IRA.
    Question. Can you please expand on this engagement and provide an 
update on next steps for this Program?

    Follow-up: From your perspective, is the Department adequately 
staffed to solicit all of this feedback and begin issuing loans from 
this Program? What is the current timeline (or target) for the 
Department to issue loans from this Program?
Tribal Bonding
    Lead-up: State and local governments use sizable amounts of tax-
free debt obligations like bonds to build out infrastructure without 
raising taxes. Yet for decades tribes have been effectively shut out of 
the ability to issue non-taxable bonds as all bonds must pass an 
``essential government functions'' test.

    Question. Dr. Hogan, what needs are you seeing by Tribes in in 
developing energy infrastructure projects? How are they being limited 
by not being able to effectively issue bonds?
Tribal Energy Workforce
    Lead-up: Dr. Hogan--the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law includes a 
provision that created the 21st Century Energy Workforce Advisory 
Board. Throughout your testimony, you mention various programs that 
Congress has passed to support tribes in energy infrastructure. Yet 
these programs tend to look at the infrastructure rather than the 
people.

    Question. How will DOE ensure that Tribal partners have the tools 
they need for workforce development in the energy space?

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