[Senate Hearing 118-24]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                                         S. Hrg. 118-24
 
                    NOMINATION OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                              COMMITTEE ON
               HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS


                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

         NOMINATION OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN TO BE ARCHIVIST OF THE
      UNITED STATES, NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

                               __________

                           FEBRUARY 28, 2023

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                       Printed for the use of the
        Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

        COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
        
        
        
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                           ______

             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 52-482                WASHINGTON : 2023
 
   
        
        
        

                   GARY C. PETERS, Michigan, Chairman
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware           RAND PAUL, Kentucky
MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MITT ROMNEY, Utah
ALEX PADILLA, California             RICK SCOTT, Florida
JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                   David M. Weinberg, Staff Director
                    Zachary I. Schram, Chief Counsel
                  Claudine J. Brenner, Senior Counsel
               Emily I. Manna, Professional Staff Member
           William E. Henderson III, Minority Staff Director
              Christina N. Salazar, Minority Chief Counsel
       Adam J. Salmon, Minority Senior Professional Staff Member
                     Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                   Ashley A. Gonzalez, Hearing Clerk

                            C O N T E N T S

                                 ------                                
Opening statements:
                                                                   Page
    Senator Peters...............................................     1
    Senator Paul.................................................     2
    Senator Johnson..............................................    11
    Senator Hawley...............................................    13
    Senator Carper...............................................    16
    Senator Marshall.............................................    18
    Senator Ossoff...............................................    21
Prepared statements:
    Senator Peters...............................................    23
    Senator Paul.................................................    25
    Senator Capito...............................................    27

                               WITNESSES
                       Tuesday, February 28, 2023

Colleen J. Shogan to be Archivist of the United States, National 
  Archives and Records Administration
    Testimony....................................................     5
    Prepared statement...........................................    28
    Biographical and professional information....................    30
    Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................    57
    Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................    64
    Responses to post-hearing questions..........................    81
    Letters of support...........................................    87

                                APPENDIX

Senator Johnson letters to National Archives and Records 
  Administration.................................................   103


                    NOMINATION OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2023

                                     U.S. Senate,  
                           Committee on Homeland Security  
                                  and Governmental Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room 
SD-562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Gary Peters, 
Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
    Present: Senators Peters [presiding], Carper, Hassan, 
Rosen, Ossoff, Blumenthal, Paul, Johnson, Scott, Hawley, and 
Marshall.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\

    Chairman Peters. The Committee will come to order.
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    \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the 
Appendix on page 23.
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    Today we are considering the nomination of Dr. Colleen 
Shogan to be Archivist of the National Archives and Records 
Administration.
    The Committee is holding a second hearing on this 
nomination at the request of our minority colleagues, and I 
hope that my colleagues will use this additional opportunity to 
ask substantive questions and evaluate Dr. Shogan's 
qualifications both carefully and fairly.
    Dr. Shogan, welcome back, congratulations once again on 
your nomination, and thank you for your willingness to serve in 
this very important position. You are exceedingly well-
qualified to serve as the next Archivist of the United States 
(AOTUS), and I hope to see you confirmed very quickly to this 
important role.
    Throughout your career, you have served in several 
nonpartisan leadership positions with dedication and integrity, 
and during last year's nomination hearing, you demonstrated 
keen judgment, a deep understanding of the importance of the 
Archivist role, and a firm commitment to nonpartisanship and 
transparency.
    Last Congress, some of my colleagues raised concerns about 
potential partisan bias. However, your extensive track record 
shows these claims to be unfounded.
    This Committee has heard from many individuals and 
organizations who attest to Dr. Shogan's expertise and ability 
to work in a nonpartisan manner. These include the American 
Political Science Association (APSA), the Council of State 
Archivists (CoSA), the American Historical Association (AHA), 
and other national, nonpartisan and nonpolitical organizations 
who I will say have enthusiastically endorsed Dr. Shogan's 
nomination. I will enter all of the letters of support into the 
hearing record, which there are many here.\1\
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    \1\ The letters of support appears in the Appendix on page 87.
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    Chairman Peters. The National Archives and Records 
Administration (NARA) is the Federal agency charged with 
maintaining and preserving Presidential and Federal records. 
Recent events have highlighted longstanding issues with 
Presidential records management and classification, and I 
understand that many of my colleagues are eager for more 
information on these issues.
    But I want to stress that, as you told us in your previous 
hearing, you are not able to provide details about current 
investigations related to Presidential records because--and 
this is a good reason--you do not currently work at NARA. 
Pretty straightforward. For my Committee colleagues, this is an 
area that this Committee has been actively engaged in, and it 
is an area that we will continue to be engaged in as we 
continue to examine this issue here in Congress.
    Last Congress, I convened a hearing to examine records 
management challenges and potential reforms. Following that 
hearing, I drafted legislation that will strengthen existing 
laws and modernize recordkeeping processes. I look forward to 
working with Ranking Member Paul and the other Members of the 
Committee to build on the work from last Congress to advance 
bipartisan legislation that will strengthen our records 
preservation laws.
    Today, I hope to have a constructive dialog about the 
current challenges facing the National Archives and Dr. Shogan, 
your plans for addressing those.
    The National Archives faces large backlogs of public 
records requests and requests for military personnel records 
that are essential, absolutely essential to ensuring veterans 
and servicemembers receive the benefits that they deserve and 
have earned.
    The Archivist will also be responsible for leading the 
transition to electronic records across the Federal Government. 
Confirming Dr. Shogan as the next Archivist will help the 
National Archives address these challenges.
    Assuring the full and accurate preservation of our nation's 
history is a monumental task and requires an independent, 
nonpartisan leader dedicated to serving the American public. I 
am confident that Dr. Shogan is the right choice to serve as 
the next National Archivist.
    Today I look forward to hearing more from you, Dr. Shogan, 
about your experience and qualifications and how you plan to 
serve. Again, thank you for being before us a second time.
    With that, Ranking Member Paul, you are now recognized for 
your opening remarks.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PAUL\2\

    Senator Paul. Thank you and welcome. My wife and I are big 
fans of the National Archives and have been there many times, 
and have always felt like it was an organization that was 
nonpartisan, and I hope it can remain so.
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    \2\ The prepared statement of Senator Paul appears in the Appendix 
on page 25.
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    Every year, though, tens of thousands of Americans travel 
to their nation's capital to peacefully stand up for the right 
to life by participating in the March for Life. It is 
quintessential First Amendment activity.
    Just over a month ago though, on January 20th, was the 50th 
anniversary of the March.
    On their way to the march that morning, dozens of marchers 
decided to stop by the National Archives to see our nation's 
founding documents, including the Bill of Rights that 
guarantees their freedom to participate in the march they were 
headed to. Rather than being welcomed as more than a million 
other visitors are each year, these marchers, many of whom were 
school-aged children, were met by hostility by the Archives and 
forced to cover up or remove any pro-life messages. This has 
actually been directly decided by the Supreme Court of the 
United States (SCOTUS) as far as wearing T-shirts that either 
criticize a President or go against a political candidate, but 
it is actually protected speech, even in our schools, where you 
cannot for a student to cover up their shirt, and yet at the 
Archives they were forced to cover their shirts.
    In one example of many from that day, one young woman 
standing mere feet from the original Bill of Rights was told to 
cover her shirt, and her shirt read ``Life is a HUMAN RIGHT.''
    You heard that right. The guards charged with protecting 
the very parchment our Bill of Rights is written on repeatedly 
violated the First Amendment rights of marchers in the presence 
of the actual First Amendment. It is hard to imagine a more 
offensive way to violate their freedom of speech.
    While I understand some action has been taken, a more 
serious investigation is necessary. This is especially true 
because similar violations occurred at the Air and Space Museum 
that day as well.
    This is deeply disturbing that this would happen. Nothing 
like this can ever happen again, and we must understand who 
ordered it or tolerated it, and the culture that enabled this 
to happen.
    Lest anyone think I am being partisan about this, while I 
know of no similar violations of speech of those on the 
political left, I would have exactly the same position. If 
someone said they disliked Rand Paul and he was a terrible 
Senator, they have to right to wear that T-shirt.
    Beyond the Museum, the Archives is responsible for 
preserving Executive Branch documents, and that mission has not 
been without controversy either. Federal records law should be 
a strictly nonpartisan affair.
    Unfortunately, the difference in how the Archives appears 
to have handled the disputes over documents held by former 
President Trump and Vice President Pence, and President Biden 
on the other hand, raises questions about the impartiality of 
the agency. Specifically, the agency seems to have aggressively 
publicized the search for documents at President Trump and Vice 
President Pence's residences, but tried to keep quiet about the 
documents President Biden kept in at least three locations. 
While I think the larger issue here is really that too many 
things are classified, and that is something that you can have 
some effect on older documents and whether they remain 
classified, we really have to get over this. Everything is 
classified. In fact, it makes oversight of government worse.
    But even if it is classified, the rules need to be the same 
for both parties, and it looks as if there was a great deal of 
activity going after the Republicans and not so much for the 
Democrats. It was basically tea and crumpets for Biden, and the 
Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and drawing guns for 
Trump. It did not seem really appropriate to many of us.
    In another document management matter, the Archives 
investigated allegations that the National Institute of Health 
(NIH) improperly destroyed key documents related to Coronavirus 
Disease 2019 (COVID-19). This is important because we are still 
struggling to get information from the NIH. You would not think 
that a scientific organization was resisting document 
disclosure, but they are. The conclusion of that investigation 
seems to be that the Archives simply accepted NIH's word that 
they were not destroying records. Well, realize this is coming 
from an agency that you would think would be nonpartisan also, 
but that is resisting all of our entreaties for information.
    I have sent more than a dozen letters to NIH. See, people 
do not know this. I have sent a dozen letters, some of them 
signed by five Senators. The NIH will not give information to 
the Senate. We need somebody in a nonpartisan position to say 
we have to make sure they are not destroying records over 
there. I have yet to receive any of the documents requested in 
those letters. I am hoping the Chairman will choose to put some 
bipartisan heft behind this. But this is a real problem that 
the government is resisting records release. I have assured the 
Chairman that if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a 
Republican administration I will sign every document request 
because there is no government agency that should be able to 
resist the Senate's request for information.
    Determining whether any documents providing insight into 
the origins of COVID, some of these being improperly destroyed, 
warrants more than just a cursory review, and OK, NIH, we are 
just going to take your word for it.
    Today I want to hear what the Archives is going to do to 
ensure that records related to the origins of COVID-19 are 
properly preserved, as well as a commitment to provide us with 
all documents related to the investigation into the origins of 
COVID.
    Finally, there is a partisan pressure campaign underway to 
bully the Archivist into unilaterally amending the 
Constitution. Who would have ever guessed that somehow the 
Archivist would be involved with amending the Constitution? Do 
you think people were mad over the Supreme Court deciding 
versus the public or legislatures, deciding the issue of 
abortion? Can you imagine if an Archivist who is not thought to 
be someone elected to any kind of office or creating any 
legislation would somehow be in charge of amending the 
Constitution would alarm even the most cautious of folks.
    Congress imposed a deadline of 1982 for 38 States to ratify 
the Equal Right Amendment (ERA), a deadline that was not met. 
We do know the will of Congress on this. Lately, three States 
have attempted to ratify the amendment notwithstanding the 
legal deadline. However, there also have been five States that 
have taken back and removed their approval of this. When 
something murky, at best, you would think that Congress would 
be the arbiter of what would happen, or the people at the very 
least.
    But these activists, who conveniently ignore the five 
States that have withdrawn their ratification, want the 
Archivist to certify adoption of the amendment. To this point 
the nominee has rightly resisted such calls, but we will be 
looking for reaffirmation of that today.
    Thank you, and we welcome your testimony.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Paul.
    It is the practice of the Homeland Security and 
Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC) to swear in witnesses, 
so if you will stand and raise your right hand please.
    Do you swear the testimony you will give before this 
Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but 
the truth, so help you, God?
    Dr. Shogan. I do.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you. You may be seated.
    Today's nominee is Dr. Colleen Shogan, nominated to be 
Archivist of the National Archives and Records Administration. 
Dr. Shogan currently serves as Senior Vice President and 
Director of the David M. Rubenstein National Center for White 
House History at the White House Historical Association and as 
an adjunct lecturer at Georgetown University.
    Dr. Shogan also moderates the Emerging Governance Leader 
Seminar at the Aspen Institute, and serves as a Vice Chair of 
the Women's Suffrage Centennial Commission, the bipartisan 
commission designated by Congress to commemorate the 19th 
Amendment.
    Previously she worked at the Library of Congress for over a 
decade in a variety of roles.
    Welcome, Dr. Shogan. You may proceed with your opening 
remarks.

 TESTIMONY OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN, PH.D.,\1\ TO BE ARCHIVIST OF 
THE UNITED STATES, NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member, 
and thank you distinguished Members of the Committee. Good 
morning. My name is Dr. Colleen Shogan, and my nomination to 
serve as the Eleventh Archivist of the United States is indeed 
the honor of a lifetime. I am likewise humbled by the 
opportunity to serve as the first nominated woman in the role.
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    \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Shogan appears in the Appendix on 
page 28.
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    Before I continue, I would like to thank my husband Rob for 
being here today. He has consistently supported my career, and 
I know this will continue if I am confirmed as Archivist.
    In 2021, I was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer. I 
would like to take a moment to acknowledge my family, my close 
friends, my work colleagues, doctors, and nurses. They helped 
make today possible for me, and I am eternally grateful. I am 
healthy today because of their efforts.
    I must admit, this setting is quite familiar to me. Over 15 
years ago, I worked alongside this Committee as a congressional 
staffer. I never imagined I would be sitting on this side of 
the dais for a confirmation hearing.
    My passion for the American story started in the public 
high school I attended outside Pittsburgh, with engaging 
teachers who taught United States history and government. As a 
first-generation college student in my family, I was fortunate 
to receive a first-class education, which allowed me to explore 
the development and evolution of American ideas and 
institutions.
    My reverence for democratic principles, ideals, and 
governance led me to a career that included positions in 
academia, Federal Government service, and nonprofit management. 
Following my service in the Senate, I spent over a decade 
directly supporting Congress as a senior leader at the 
Congressional Research Service (CRS) and the Library of 
Congress. I also served as the Vice-Chair of the Women's 
Suffrage Centennial Commission, which commemorated the 
anniversary of the 19th Amendment without partisanship. These 
positions, including the one I hold today at the White House 
Historical Association, have instilled in me the tremendous 
value of nonpartisanship and access to trusted sources. I am 
confident that my years of experience in these unique roles 
have prepared me well to serve as the Archivist of the United 
States.
    The National Archives and Records Administration preserves 
the building blocks of our nation's democracy. NARA does this 
by enabling access to the government records which tell our 
national story in the words and images of the people who made 
history.
    This is critical for several reasons. First, it provides 
citizens with answers about family heritage, military service, 
and governmental decisions. Citizen engagement with Archives' 
materials online and in person through our nationwide system of 
archival research rooms and Presidential libraries is a top 
priority for NARA. The National Archives also provides 
researchers, historians, genealogists, educators, students, and 
other stakeholders with trusted information about our shared 
past.
    In my own research, I have benefited from examining NARA's 
records. As a political scientist, I strongly believe that we 
cannot understand our nation's present condition without a 
comprehensive understanding of the paths that brought us here. 
Along with our other Federal cultural institutions, NARA 
secures the repository of knowledge that enables such 
understanding, for scholars and citizens alike.
    Additionally, the National Archives provides vital records 
management services and guidance to all three branches of the 
government and is leading the governmentwide transition to 
electronic recordkeeping.
    Most importantly, NARA safeguards government records in the 
public trust to enable citizens, such as veterans, to claim 
their rights to hold their government accountable and to 
participate in the civic process.
    If confirmed, I will have many hills to climb in this 
position. I do not assume these challenges lightly. To succeed, 
we will need to find creative ways to become more efficient, to 
capitalize upon public-private partnerships, and to engage 
previously underserved communities in meaningful ways.
    Of course, NARA must do this as technologies improve at a 
lightning speed. Government is not always considered nimble 
when it comes to innovation, but the National Archives can 
serve as a leader in its transition to a primarily digital 
future. This will require investing in the Archives' talented 
workforce and making smart business decisions that will propel 
NARA forward.
    In a private meditation, Abraham Lincoln likened the 
principles of the Declaration of Independence to the ``apple of 
gold,'' a phrase contained in the Book of Proverbs. Lincoln 
knew it was his task to move the Nation toward a ``more 
perfect'' realization of these principles. As the 250th 
anniversary of our country approaches, that hard work 
continues. If confirmed, I look forward to sharing the 
treasured collection of the National Archives with all 
Americans. Thank you.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Dr. Shogan.
    There are three questions that the Committee asks of every 
nominee, and I am going to ask you to respond briefly to these 
questions with just a simple yes or no.
    First, is there anything you are aware of in your 
background that might present a conflict of interest with the 
duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
    Dr. Shogan. No.
    Chairman Peters. Second, do you know of anything, personal 
or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and 
honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to 
which you have been nominated?
    Dr. Shogan. No.
    Chairman Peters. Last, do you agree without reservation to 
comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before 
any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are 
confirmed?
    Dr. Shogan. Yes.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you.
    Dr. Shogan, my first question is you are not an archivist, 
or a librarian or a historian. So could you tell the Committee 
what experience and skills you are going to be bringing to the 
role of Archivist of the United States?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. As 
I stated in my opening statement, I bring over 15 years of 
experience in the government sector and in the nonprofit sector 
and increasing positions of importance. I bring management and 
supervisory skills to the table, working in all facets of 
government, including eight years at the Congressional Research 
Service, four years at the Library of Congress in senior 
executive positions, and then for the past three years as the 
Senior Vice President at the nonpartisan, nonprofit White House 
Historical Association.
    I also think I do have a very relevant educational 
background to serve as the Archivist of the United States. I am 
not a historian. I am a political scientist. But my areas of 
expertise were in American politics, in political philosophy, 
and in methodology, and I have really focused on the 
intersection of political science and history. That has been 
where my work has focused, which gives me a very good 
background in the history of ideas and institutions.
    Last, I would highlight that I have performed many of these 
roles, particularly for the past 15 years, in organizations in 
which their principles and values, most importantly, were of 
nonpartisanship.
    Chairman Peters. Dr. Shogan, the outreach and engagement 
with the public are absolutely essential parts of NARA's work. 
If confirmed, what are your priorities for educational 
outreach?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. 
This brings a lot of excitement and energy to me because I 
think that all of our students, all the way from students in 
elementary school all the way to graduate students, my vision, 
my hope is that they will turn to the National Archives first 
when they are engaging in research and exploration related to 
social studies, to American history, to civics.
    I know in this country we do have what some people have 
referred to as a deficit in a knowledge of American history and 
in civics, and that is improving and is getting better. But the 
National Archives can play a major role in helping to close 
this deficit. If I am confirmed, I look forward to looking to 
all kinds of third-party partnerships that would enable more 
access, more knowledge to students about the treasures.
    There are 205 million records online through the National 
Archives in the catalog. That is just amazing. It is the 
largest online archive in the world. It is unbelievable. We 
need to make sure that we are making use of those records, 
making sure that they are available to students. The way we do 
this is directly to students, but it is also through teachers. 
I would also want to evaluate our teacher professional training 
outreach. I know that this has been ongoing at the Archives. I 
would like to increase that outreach, increase opportunities 
for professional training for teachers to use our records in 
the classroom, and I would also like to bring back in-person 
training for teachers to the National Archives, if confirmed.
    Chairman Peters. Great. The next question relates to a 
problem that has to be resolved. It is an issue incredibly 
important to me, and I think every Member on this Committee as 
well. That issue is that NARA is currently facing a backlog of 
over 300,000 requests for military service records.
    Now I was glad to see that last week NARA released a plan 
to eliminate the backlog by December of this year--hopefully 
that will be accomplished--but I think I would like to hear, if 
confirmed, what steps you are going to take to ensure that goal 
is actually met.
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you for that question. This issue is of 
utmost importance to me. I come from a family of veterans. My 
father was a veteran. My uncles were veterans, my sister-in-
law. It is of utmost importance. This goes right to the heart 
of access. Veterans need access to these records so they can 
claim the benefits that they are guaranteed because of their 
service to this country.
    If I am confirmed as Archivist of the United States I view 
this as being a discrete problem of the first magnitude. I plan 
to travel to the National Personnel Records Center, which is 
located outside of Saint Louis, and be able to view the 
procedures and processes that are in place right now. They are, 
as you said, Mr. Chairman, making good progress, and the goal 
is to reduce and eliminate that backlog by December 2023. But I 
would want to travel there and see the processes in place, see 
what else can be done so that we can speed up that deadline.
    Chairman Peters. Great. Dr. Shogan, if confirmed, you are 
going to play a key role in the transition to digital records 
across the scope of the Federal Government. Can you describe 
your experience leading efforts to expand digital resources as 
well as outreach?
    Dr. Shogan. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that question. 
I was lucky enough to be very much involved for the very 
origins of digital outreach and transformation at the Library 
of Congress. I was very much involved in the drafting of the 
first digital strategy at the Library of Congress. I would also 
point to my current position. As you know, COVID really removed 
a lot of in-person interactions after its inception. I think 
everybody that was working in cultural or historical 
institutions was faced with the prospect of having to get their 
information out in ways that they had never approached before.
    We were very aggressive in this regard at the White House 
Historical Association. It took a lot of time and effort. But 
we were able to do things such as going to the White House and 
create a very innovative, 360-degree tour of the White House 
that we were able to put online, and we were able to engage 
with students and teachers. We have made use of that 360-degree 
tour even now that people are back in person with COVID, 
because we know there are people that cannot travel to visit 
the White House.
    I would hope to make creative endeavors like the ones that 
I have done in my previous positions, and to apply those 
principles and strategies to the National Archives, so we could 
share the National Archives with as many Americans as possible, 
hopefully in person but also, of course, through digital means.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Dr. Shogan. Thank you for the 
answers to my questions.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Paul for his questions.
    Senator Paul. Do you believe that the Archivist has the 
power to certify amendments to the Constitution when there is a 
dispute as to how many States have ratified the amendment?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member. As I understand 
it, the function before the Archivist of the United States is 
what has been described as ministerial in function, so the 
Archivist publishes an amendment when it is part of the 
Constitution, not the decider.
    Senator Paul. Very good, and I think that is exactly right. 
In some ways it would probably be similar to sort of the 
certification of an election. When the Vice President comes in 
it was thought to be ministerial, not that the Vice President 
had the power to change or alter the election.
    Will you allow security at the Archives to force people to 
cover clothing that has political speech on it?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, for that 
question. Absolutely not.
    Senator Paul. Will you get to the bottom of how it 
happened? I do not know if this was some rogue person out there 
doing this or if those in charge were encouraging this. But 
will you promise to get to the bottom of it?
    Dr. Shogan. Absolutely, Mr. Ranking Member.
    Senator Paul. I think one of the things that American 
people hate most about government is when it appears as if 
justice or the adjudication of justice is partial, when Lady 
Liberty is not blind, Lady Justice is not blind, that there are 
different standards for people depending on their party. At 
least from where I sit, a lot of Republicans felt like there 
was a different standard really in the way the FBI treated 
Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
    The bigger problem, though, I think, is that everything is 
classified. We classify everything. The menu at the White House 
is supposedly classified. We have problems with too much 
classification.
    But it also makes oversight difficult. For example, a 
million Americans died from COVID. Somewhere between 12, 15, 
maybe 18 million people died worldwide from COVID. I cannot get 
records from the NIH because they classify them. I think it was 
the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) sent us a 
250-page document and redacted the whole thing. This is just 
sort of an insult, and I do not know how we get to it.
    You do not have complete control of this, but I think you 
have some control over the older records. How do you understand 
your role on the older records, being part of declassifying 
older records?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you for that question. Yes, as I 
understand it the agency that classifies information has the 
responsibility and the choice to declassify that information. 
But there is the National Declassification Center at the 
National Archives, located in Maryland, and if I am confirmed I 
plan to, of course, visit the National Declassification Center 
and also prioritize, as you said, Mr. Ranking Member, the older 
records that are waiting for declassification, figuring out how 
we can be most efficient in doing this and how we can 
strengthen relationships with those classifying agencies, those 
classifying entities, so that we are able to move some of these 
older documents through the process. I agree with that.
    Senator Paul. For the record here, on the Presidential 
controversy, what we are stuck with now is millions of dollars 
will be spent on these investigations, and there should be an 
investigation of neither Biden nor Trump nor Pence on this. 
They should be told that these are the rules and we should try 
to work with people that were in office.
    I think we are not going to find that the secrets to making 
a nuclear weapon were at someone's house. I think we are going 
to find that a lot of stuff is classified that does not need to 
be classified. But it began with sort of a witch hunt for 
Trump. Everybody loved it. The media cackled and rubbed their 
hands together and it went on for weeks and weeks. They had 
Donald Trump. They were going to get him. They were going to 
put him in jail. Like all the rest of the governments that are 
controlled by one party around the country, they just had glee 
until Biden was found to have records in a much less secure 
place, next to his Corvette in his garage.
    But I think we have overreacted to both. I have talked with 
the Chairman and others on the other side that we need to do 
something about this over-classification problem. What little 
part you can be of it, I realize and I do not want you to 
create a problem, but what you can do on the older records I 
think we would appreciate trying to get less. I look forward to 
working with the Chairman on trying to change this because we 
cannot have true oversight of government if HHS and NIH is 
telling us it is none of your business.
    We really have to get a hold of what is going on. To me the 
COVID thing is not about Biden at all. A lot of this happened 
in the previous administration so really it should not be 
partisan at all. We should all want to find these records.
    I am going to reserve my time for later if that is OK.
    Chairman Peters. That is fine, Senator Paul. Thank you.
    Senator Johnson, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON

    Senator Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to 
start by making an appeal to the Chair, now we have the full 
Committee but also to my new Chair of the Permanent 
Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI). We have Senator Marshall, 
Senator Paul, and myself are very interested, as I think the 
American public is, in the origin of COVID. I think with the 
recent revelation now the Department of Energy (DOE) is tending 
toward a leak from a lab. We need to understand exactly how 
COVID started so we can prevent it from happening in the 
future.
    I think in this Committee we have the investigatory 
background, certainly my subcommittee does, and I would truly 
encourage the Chairs of the full Committee and the Permanent 
Subcommittee on Investigations to cooperate with us, and quite 
honestly, start a full-fledged Committee investigation into the 
origins. I think it is extremely important, as well as other 
aspects of our response to COVID, which I certainly have my 
viewpoint on that. The House is doing so, I think, in a pretty 
bipartisan fashion. There should be nothing partisan about this 
whatsoever.
    I really encourage you, as the Chair of the full Committee, 
and Senator Blumenthal to cooperate with us in those 
investigations.
    Dr. Shogan, in your third question that is standard in 
terms of asking nominees before the Committee, do you agree 
without reservation to comply with any request or summons to 
appear or testify before a duly constituted committee of 
Congress if you are confirmed, you answered that in the 
affirmative. I am asking, do you agree that that should be a 
request from the minority as well?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator Johnson, for that question. 
If I am confirmed I will be responsive to any requests or 
inquiries that you have, any members on this
    Committee have, or any members of the U.S. Senate or 
Congress, within compliance of existing law. I will do that.
    Senator Johnson. There is also legal counsel opinion in 
2001, which took a look at the language of the Presidential 
Records Act (PRA), where it is talking about ``to the extent of 
manner within its jurisdiction, to any committee or 
subcommittee thereof if such records contain information as 
needed for the conduct of its business that is not otherwise 
available.'' There is no mention of the majority, the minority, 
or a chairman of a committee or chairwoman of a committee 
making that request, but the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) said 
that it is only a request from a chair.
    I understand that is the legal standard put forth by the 
Department of Justice, an agency within the Executive Branch. 
But I would argue, and I certainly experienced this, that it 
has dramatically hampered the rights of the minority to get the 
bottom of what is happening in government.
    In your testimony you mimic the website of the Archives in 
terms of what the purpose of the Archives is. According to the 
Archives website, ``In a democracy, records belong to the 
people. Records help us claim our rights and entitlements, hold 
our elected officials accountable for their actions, and 
document our history as a Nation. NARA ensures continuing 
access to the essential documentation of the rights of American 
citizens and the action of the government,'' and in your 
testimony you said you will be there to safeguard government 
and public records so that the citizens can claim their rights 
to hold government accountable.
    With that Office of Legal Counsel's opinion, if you have 
the presidency held by one party and both branches of 
government held by the same party, half the country, through 
their elected representatives, have no access to records. Do 
you understand that?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, I will need to get back to you on the 
OLC opinion that you are citing. I believe, as you said, that 
issued during the presidency of George W. Bush. But once again, 
I want to promise to be as responsive as possible, under the 
dictates of the law, to yourself, to other Members of this 
Committee, and to Members of the U.S. Senate and all Members of 
Congress, because I do believe, Senator, what you have stated 
is correct.
    The National Archives holds the records of the United 
States in custody for the American people, but the American 
people, it is their records, and I look forward to sharing them 
with as many Americans as possible while following the law.
    Senator Johnson. By the way, I think current majority 
leader Schumer had an issue with that same Office of Legal 
Counsel opinion back in 2018. I actually agree with Senator 
Schumer. I think it is absurd, if you believe in transparency 
of government, if you believe that these records are the 
records of the people, that in certain circumstances there is 
no possibility for the minority party to get access to records 
from the Administration so we cannot hold them accountable, and 
the American public cannot get information that it completely 
deserves to have. Do you agree with that position? Do you 
understand the quandary, the problem with that opinion?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, I do understand the problem that you 
are outlining, and once again, I promise if I am confirmed to 
share as many records as possible with the American people 
under the dictates of the law.
    Senator Johnson. If you become Archivist here, you will 
also be in charge of an agency that in addition to archiving 
other Executive Branch information you will have potential 
information yourself, for example, communications between 
yourself and, in this case, the Department of Justice (DOJ) in 
terms of how to handle the classified information that is in 
the hands of President Trump, President Biden, and Vice 
President Pence.
    I would like to, with consent, enter two letters,\1\ one 
January 23rd of this year and also February 24th, written by 
Senator Grassley and myself to the Acting Archivist, asking for 
information related to those investigations. We did not get a 
satisfactory answer in our January request so we had to follow 
it up with a February request. But the first one just said, 
``If you become Archivist''--this is the question we asked of 
the Acting Archivist--``will you provide all records between 
the Archives and the Department of Justice relating to the 
Archives' response to our January 23, 2023, letter?'' I mean, 
will you provide those types of records? Or are you going to 
hide behind, oh, there is an active investigation, or only a 
Chair can request this?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The letters submitted by Senator Johnson appears in the 
Appendix on page 103.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, I have not been briefed on any details 
regarding these incidents due to the Department of Justice 
investigations. I have not.
    Senator Johnson. I would just ask that, as you said, you 
would be responsive to our requests, should you become 
confirmed, and I would ask for your commitment to be responsive 
to our requests.
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Johnson.
    Senator Hawley, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY

    Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Shogan, when you were here last year a number of 
Senators asked you, including me, a series of questions about 
an article you had written, public statements you had made on 
social media that were, I have to say, pretty grossly partisan, 
and I thought offensive. You and I went back and forth about 
it.
    After that, a number of us asked you questions for the 
record relating to these statements. I want to follow up on one 
of them. I, in particular, asked you to give us a full 
accounting of the public posts that you had made on Twitter. 
You locked your Twitter account before you came before this 
Committee. It had previously been public. I asked you to 
provide the public posts that had previously been available on 
Twitter because the ones that we have were pretty disturbing.
    You responded as follows, ``My personal Twitter account is 
comprised of posts about my mystery novels, events at the White 
House Historical Association, Pittsburgh sports teams, travels, 
and my dog.'' Is this an accurate statement?
    Dr. Shogan. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. I just remind you you are under oath. Is 
this an accurate statement?
    Dr. Shogan. Yes, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Let us talk a little bit about your Twitter 
posts then, that I was asking you about.
    On February 18, 2022, you posted on Twitter bemoaning the 
dropping of mask requirements for children, including those 
under the age of 5. Do you remember that post?
    Dr. Shogan. No, Senator. Those tweets were in my personal 
capacity.
    Senator Hawley. No. I asked you, would you give all public 
posts that you had made on Twitter. You said no, effectively, 
and you said that your Twitter posts consisted of ``mystery 
novels, events at the White House Historical Association, 
Pittsburgh sports teams, travels, and my dog.'' You just told 
me now, under oath, that you stood by that.
    Now let us talk about your Twitter posts. On February 18, 
2022, you posted bemoaning the fact that mask requirements for 
children under the age of 5--one of whom I happen to have, by 
the way--had been dropped. Is that a post about your dog or 
sports teams?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
    Senator Hawley. Answer my question, please, because you 
have testified under oath that you only posted about your dog 
and sports teams and novels, and you also said you would not 
give this Committee any of your public posts.
    Is your post on February 18, 2022, bemoaning the lifting of 
mask requirements for children under the age of 5, who I might 
just ask all of the data has said is extremely harmful to 
children, these mask requirements--we will leave that aside for 
now--is that a post about your dog or sports teams? Yes or no.
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Yes or no, Dr. Shogan. You are under oath 
before this Committee, and I have to say you have placed this 
issue squarely in record by repeatedly refusing to answer. Yes 
or no?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. So you are not answering my question. Let 
us talk about another post.
    On May 26, 2022, you talk about an assault weapons ban, 
retweet a post ``Ban assault weapons now,'' saying you agree 
with this idea that you have to be a certain age to buy so-
called assault weapons in America. Is that a post about sports 
teams or your dog or mystery novels?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. What about the post on January 5, 2021, in 
which you say that Ted Cruz ought to stay in his own lane and 
not worry about what is going on in Pittsburgh. This is a 
reference, I think, to questions he had about the certification 
of the last election. Is that a post about your dog or sports 
teams or mystery novels?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Do you remember December 10, 2020, where 
you said that you were hoping that President Trump would have 
his vetoes overridden and you agree with the post that he was a 
weak policy President? Is that a post about your dog, sports 
teams, or mystery novels?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
    Senator Hawley. What about your post on January 5, 2021, in 
which you speculated that President Trump would pardon himself 
next, participating in a conversation about the certification 
of the Electoral College. Is that a post about sports teams, 
mystery novels, or your work at the White House Historical 
Association?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Do you remember this one? We seem to be 
having an incredible case of amnesia, but maybe you remember 
this one. This is from December 3, 2021, in which you advised 
an individual who goes by ``Meg'' on social media, that the 
Library of Congress, who advised this person to complain about 
religious flags that had been planted on the grounds at the 
Library of Congress, and you say that they ought to be removed. 
You go on to give this person advice about how to complain and 
have them removed. Do you remember that post?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
    Senator Hawley. Do you remember the post?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. I have to say, I have been for four years 
in the Senate. I have never seen a witness stonewall like this 
before, never. I have seen a lot. This is extraordinary. Do you 
remember this post, December 3, 2021?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity, 
Senator.
    Senator Hawley. This is unbelievable, and you want to be 
the Archivist of the United States. You lied to us under oath. 
You lied to us in your questions for the record (QFRs). You 
just lied to me a second ago under oath, and now you are 
sitting here stonewalling, not answering questions about public 
posts that you made.
    Are you a lawyer, Dr. Shogan?
    Dr. Shogan. No, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Are you familiar with the Shurtleff case at 
the United States Supreme Court?
    Dr. Shogan. No, Senator, I am not.
    Senator Hawley. In that case the Supreme Court held that, 
in fact, it constitutes viewpoint discrimination for a 
government entity to remove religious flags from its property 
when it has opened up the property for other people to put 
flags on it, exactly the question that you were addressing in 
your public posts on Twitter. You are giving legal advice, 
which you are not qualified to give, directly contrary to the 
United States Supreme Court. I just wonder, does this have to 
do with your view that you wrote about that the religious right 
is connected to the rise of anti-intellectualism in American 
politics? Is that what you said about religious flags, that the 
religious right is a force for anti-intellectualism? Explain 
that to me.
    Dr. Shogan. No, Senator.
    Senator Hawley. Do you stand by your comment that the 
religious right is part of the rise of anti-intellectualism in 
American politics?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, that article was written. It was about 
how Republican Presidents use common-sense terminology to 
effectively communicate with Americans.
    Senator Hawley. Yes, in which you said that the rise of the 
religious right is part of the rise in anti-intellectualism in 
American politics.
    I would just point out that is the article in which you 
say--the title is, ``Anti-Intellectualism in the Modern 
Presidency: Republican Populism.'' Very nonpartisan.
    Dr. Shogan, I am going to ask you again. Will you give to 
this Committee your public posts on Twitter? Will you make them 
available to this Committee?
    Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
    Senator Hawley. Mr. Chairman, I have to tell you, this is 
the most extraordinary thing I have seen in my brief time in 
the Senate. I have never seen a witness blatantly lie under 
oath like Dr. Shogan has just done to this Committee, 
stonewalled this Committee, and just repeatedly refused to 
answer my questions about her own posts that are in public. For 
these reasons I will oppose your nomination, and I strongly 
urge this Committee to take action on this and force this 
witness to own up to the fact that she is misleading us right 
now, before our eyes, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Peters. Senator Carper, you are recognized for 
your question.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER

    Senator Carper. Thanks.
    Dr. Shogan, why don't you take a minute and just respond to 
some of what we have heard from Senator Hawley, please, and I 
promise not to interrupt you.
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator. I would like to highlight 
my nonpartisan record that I have achieved for the past 15 
years in service, in public service, eight years at the 
Congressional Research Service, four years at the Library of 
Congress, and the past three years at the nonpartisan White 
House Historical Association. I have worked very effectively 
with Republicans and Democrats in all of these capacities.
    When I worked at the Congressional Research Service I 
worked with hundreds of Members of Congress and Senators, 
committees, majority and minority alike. I walked into offices, 
helped them get from Point A to Point B, regardless of their 
partisan affiliation.
    In my current job at the White House Historical 
Association, I came to the White House Historical Association, 
I accepted the position late 2019, started the job in early 
2020, and when President Trump was the President of the United 
States I worked very effectively with that White House, and 
then, of course, now with President Biden in the White House, I 
have worked very effectively with that White House.
    I stand very strongly behind my professional nonpartisan 
record, which I think speaks for itself.
    Senator Carper. The information we just heard from my 
colleague, is this official? Is this like government emails? I 
do not really understand the source of them. Just explain it.
    Dr. Shogan. No. Social media in my personal capacity, as 
marked as much.
    Senator Carper. OK. It will be interesting to see what 
social media in a personal capacity looked like for some of the 
folks that we serve with. Thank you for setting the record 
straight.
    I want to begin by thanking you for joining us for today's 
hearing and for your willingness to serve our country. I am a 
veteran, the last Vietnam veteran serving here, and I am 
especially appreciative of the work in that regard.
    Over the last decade the National Archives and Records 
Administration has been putting together the tools to 
transition the Federal Government from paper to electronic 
records, and as the chief administrator of NARA, the Archivist 
plays a critical leadership role in the transition, as you 
know, to digital records, and providing appropriate support to 
staff will be crucial in the success of the transition.
    Here is my question. With that said, what administrative or 
policy changes would you implement at NARA in order to ensure 
the agency has the appropriate resources to carry out this 
transition from paper to digital, and how will you ensure the 
staff has the support and training that they need to 
efficiently accomplish this feat?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. It is a 
very big challenge for NARA, moving forward, the transition 
from predominantly analog to a predominantly digital archive.
    The first challenge, I think, Senator, will be that paper 
records are not going anywhere. Paper records have existed 
since the beginning of the republic. As the transition moves to 
digital records, after June 30, 2024, when the Office of 
Management and Budget (OMB) directive is implemented, the 
National Archives will still have to deal with paper records 
while they transition. To use a sports analogy, if you are a 
good basketball player you have to be able to play offense and 
defense, and the National Archives will have to be able to also 
serve paper records while they make the transition to digital. 
That will be the first challenge.
    The second challenge, I think, Senator, will be that when 
those digital records come to the National Archives the 
question will be, are the agencies providing the correct data 
that accompanies those records, because as you might imagine, 
there is going to be an exponential increase in the number of 
digital records compared to analog or paper records. What will 
really matter is if the accompanying data with those records 
will help our users find the records that they need. I think 
that is going to be a major challenge.
    Going forward, the Archives, we will need to provide 
correct training for staff, because just as I said before, the 
records have increased exponentially but the budget has not 
increased exponentially. Staff needs to be trained to be able 
to make this transition from paper to digital, and there will 
be different requirements for things like metadata. We can rely 
upon a very strategic use of training to be able to make sure 
staff are ready for that transition, and once again, being able 
to continue the servicing of the paper records while NARA 
becomes a predominantly digital agency.
    Senator Carper. All right. Thank you. One more question, 
dealing with the ability of the National Archives to adapt to 
advancements in recordkeeping technology. In 2014, under my 
leadership as Chairman of this Committee at the time--I think 
with Tom Coburn as my wingman--we passed the Presidential and 
Federal Records Act (FRA) which, among other things, certified 
that electronic records should be treated the same way as paper 
records.
    As a result of that clarification, NARA has seen an 
increase in the volume of records that they are required to 
collect and to preserve. These records document the important 
work that our Federal workforce conducts on a daily basis and 
need to be properly collected and preserved. As such, NARA 
requires the resources to ensure that proper protocols are in 
place to collect and maintain both paper and electronic 
records.
    My question. Dr. Shogan, how do you see NARA being able to 
adapt to advancements in recordkeeping technology to collect 
and preserve both paper and electronic records, and do you feel 
NARA has the resources to do that while responding to record 
requests?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you for that question. As I said in the 
previous answer, this is going to be the challenge, to be able 
to continue to service paper records as well as moving forward 
with the advancement to digital. I think the answer to that, 
Senator, is that the Federal agencies that are, of course, 
providing the records, whether they are paper or digital, need 
to engage earlier in the process. This will be NARA's 
responsibility to provide education and oversight to those 
agencies to get them to engage earlier in the process, so that 
their technologies and their data, once again, will meet the 
needs for users.
    I do not come to this as an archivist by training, but I do 
come to this as a user of the National Archives, and I look 
forward to bringing that perspective as a user to the National 
Archives as we move forward into the digital future.
    Senator Carper. Thank you. All of us on this Committee and 
in the Senate and House receive inquiries from our 
constituents, and a lot of them are veterans. I am especially 
interested in seeing us be able to provide better responses in 
that regard.
    Thank you so much for your willingness to serve in this 
role. Thank you.
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you. Senator Marshall, you are 
recognized for your questions, and welcome once again to the 
Committee. We love having you here.

             OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MARSHALL

    Senator Marshall. Thank you, Senator Peters. Glad to be 
here, and welcome, Dr. Shogan. We are glad you are here as 
well.
    Dr. Shogan, as you know over 1 million Americans and over 
10 million people worldwide have died from COVID. Recently the 
Department of Energy released information that they have 
changed their mind and they believe that this virus originated 
in Wuhan, China, joining our own FBI.
    Earlier you committed to Ranking Member Paul to try and 
declassify older records. Do you feel that America deserves to 
know the origins of COVID, and will you do everything possible 
to declassify these recent records, including why the 
Department of Energy changed their mind?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. It is 
nice to meet you and welcome to the Committee. We did not have 
a chance to chat before.
    Senator, as I understand it the agencies that classify 
records also hold the responsibility to declassify those 
records, so that would not be in the direct purview of the 
Archivist of the United States. But nonetheless, at the 
National Archives, a principal value is the value of 
transparency. I will be responsive to any requests that you 
might have while following the law, and of course, in areas of 
classification finding the appropriate balance between 
transparency and, of course, critically protecting our national 
security.
    Senator Marshall. OK. I want to talk for a moment about the 
storage of data done from research funded with United States 
dollars and how you feel your role would be in this.
    In September 2019, the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) 
terminated access to an important database that was populated 
with genomic sequences resulting in part or from United States-
sponsored research. We still do not have access to those, to 
that data. Similarly, in 2020, the WIV removed genomic data 
stored at our own NIH genomic lab bank here in this country.
    What are your plans to require hosting of data for U.S. 
sponsored research in the United States, and what are your 
plans to pursue any type of punitive actions against the Wuhan 
Institute of Virology for terminating access to our data paid 
for with U.S. dollars?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I am not 
familiar with some of the facts that you have just explained to 
me. I have not been briefed about those matters. But if I am 
confirmed as Archivist of the United States I promise that I 
will look into those matters. I am happy to meet with you or 
meet with your staff to follow up on those matters.
    Senator Marshall. Do you believe that if the United States 
is funding that type of research that it should be transparent, 
it should be stored, it should be available to the public?
    Dr. Shogan. I believe all agencies must follow the 
requirements and dictates in the Federal Records Act.
    Senator Marshall. OK. In 2017, it was discovered that the 
NIH was deleting records. While a number of those records have 
been fully or partially recovered, many have not. NARA has 
acknowledged receipt of an NIH report about the record 
deletion, but to my knowledge it has not been made public.
    Are you aware of this report or the subject of the deleted 
files, and are you willing to submit them to this Committee for 
further review?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, I have not been briefed. I am not 
privy to those details, but I will be responsive to you under 
the requirements of the law, for sure.
    Senator Marshall. Will you make those records available to 
this Committee, if not publicly?
    Dr. Shogan. If I am confirmed I will follow the dictates 
required in the Federal Records Act and all associated 
regulations, Senator.
    Senator Marshall. Kind of change subjects here for a 
second. Last Congress I was shocked to find out that the 
National Archives had, and continues to label, our founding 
documents as containing trigger warnings. That is right. The 
National Archives, on their website, States that the 
Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Bill of 
Rights contains harmful content.
    I introduced legislation with Senator Risch to remove these 
designations and would like to understand your personal opinion 
on our found documents and the role of the National Archives in 
sharing them with our citizens. Do you believe personally that 
the Constitution and our founding documents are harmful?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, absolutely no.
    Senator Marshall. Do you think we should remove that 
warning label that they are trigger warnings there?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, there is a harmful content warning but 
it is on all results when you use NARA's online catalog. It is 
not attached to any one record, such as the United States 
Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Previously, 
when I testified before this Committee, I did state, I believe 
to Senator Lankford, that I would be willing to work with him 
about the language of that warning, and I stand behind my 
promise to do so, if I am confirmed.
    Senator Marshall. OK. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Marshall.
    Ranking Member Paul had two minutes left in his time that 
he graciously passed to allow Members to speak. Ranking Member 
Paul, you are recognized for two minutes.
    Senator Paul. I was favorably inclined by your answer, 
particularly that your role as the Archivist is ministerial 
with regard to certifying amendments to the Constitution. Also 
on your, I think, forthright answer on whether or not you would 
force people to cover their T-shirts. I thought those were 
great responses.
    I guess I am sort of torn, though, with the whole idea that 
your Twitter is private. We tell our kids it is not and be 
careful what you post on Twitter. Everybody knows that.
    The problem is that, see, if I have an intern in my office, 
we actually do look at their Twitter, and if they say bad 
things about people's ethnicity or their private life, they 
make sort of aspersions or act as if they are bigoted in any 
way, we will not hire them as an intern, much less as a person. 
This is advice for everybody. You have to really be careful 
what you post.
    Now, being a liberal should not disqualify you, but the one 
question on whether or not, the Library of Congress should take 
down flags does kind of go to the heart of what we would do 
with records and things and whether or not that shows a bias 
that might enter into the decisionmaking as an archivist. It 
does worry me, not that you are liberal. I think if we got rid 
of liberals we might not have a lot of librarians or 
archivists, frankly.
    But I am worried about the idea that you would advise 
people at the Library of Congress about taking down religious 
flags in a public place. I think it goes against the law. But 
then in not answering the actual issue--and I know it is 
difficult in a cross-examination to decide--but not answering 
the subject about religious flags, it worries me that what we 
are getting is the public face as opposed to what you say in 
private, which may not meld together.
    Do you have any comment on that?
    Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, for that 
question. If I am confirmed as Archivist of the United States, 
without reservation I will welcome all Americans to the 
National Archives. I will welcome them enthusiastically to the 
National Archives. I stand 100 percent behind that sentiment. I 
have a record of doing so at the Library of Congress, where I 
oversaw visitor services for several years, and I will continue 
in that tradition. You have my promise and my word on that.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Paul. Senator 
Ossoff, you are recognized for your questions.

              OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR OSSOFF

    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Dr. Shogan, 
good to see you again, and I congratulate you again on your 
nomination.
    You and I have discussed this issue previously so you will 
not be surprised to hear that I am eager to hear again your 
commitments to work with me to address the significant delays 
that veterans are experiencing accessing their service records. 
As you know, Dr. Shogan, to access their Department of Veterans 
Affairs (VA) benefits and other services to which they are 
entitled, as veterans, veterans need access to the military 
service records which are in the custody of the Archives.
    The good news is that with Chairman Peters' support, last 
year I introduced and passed into law the bipartisan Access for 
Veterans to Records Act, in order to address the serious 
backlog of requests for access to military service records. In 
your hearing last September you committed to working with my 
office to address that backlog.
    I want to ask you again, now that my bipartisan legislation 
is law, will you commit to working with me swiftly to eliminate 
the backlog of veterans' record requests at National Personnel 
Records Center (NPRC)?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, thank you for that question. 
Absolutely.
    Senator Ossoff. What is your understanding of the latest 
state of that backlog? What efforts are underway now to address 
it? What do you think will need to be done if and when you 
assume this office, in order to eliminate it?
    Dr. Shogan. Senator, I think there is good news in that 
regard. The backlog is down to about 330,000 requests. The 
height of the backlog was over 600,000 requests, so that is 
good progress. The project timeline for completion of the 
backlog, or elimination of it, is in December 2023. If I am 
confirmed, I promise to make my first trip as Archivist of the 
United States to Saint Louis, to the National Personnel Records 
Center, to see the operations on the ground, to figure out 
where we can find deficiencies, to make sure that are using 
contractual authorities to the highest extent, to make sure 
that work gets done in an expeditious fashion, and also to 
explore any other creative solutions where we might be able to 
move that deadline up. Although ambitious, December 2023, I 
think we can all agree we would like to have that sooner, if 
possible.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Dr. Shogan. Let us talk now 
about civil rights cold cases, Black Americans who, in the 
segregation era, were dragged from their homes, abducted, 
assaulted, lynched, subject to horrific abuse and murder for 
which there was and remains impunity. Some of the most horrific 
crimes in our national history, they were never prosecuted, and 
the descendants and survivors of those victims are still with 
us. They rightfully demand justice.
    The good news is that we are making some progress toward 
security justice, and last Congress I passed into law the 
bipartisan Civil Rights Cold Case Investigations Support Act, 
to give them tasked with investigating these civil rights cold 
case the time they need to pursue justice.
    The Archives have an important role to play in supporting 
those investigations. If you are confirmed, will you use your 
authorities to the fullest extent you can under the law to 
support those efforts to investigate civil rights cold cases, 
those unsolved lynchings, those unsolved assaults and 
abductions from the segregation era South?
    Dr. Shogan. Absolutely, Senator. I think that falls under 
the Archives' priority of providing access, and providing 
access to populations that need access to those records. We 
talk about veterans previously. That is, of course, so the 
veterans can claim their benefits. In this instance it is so 
the people can claim justice.
    Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Dr. Shogan. I have constituents 
who will be relieved to hear you make that commitment. Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Ossoff.
    I would like to thank you again, Dr. Shogan, for joining us 
today and for your willingness to serve in this very important 
position.
    The nominee has filed responses to biographical and 
financial questionnaires,\1\ and without objection this 
information will be made part of the hearing record, with the 
exception of the financial data which is on file and available 
for public inspection in the Committee offices.
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    \1\  The information on Dr. Shogan appears in the Appendix on page 
30.
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    Chairman Peters. The hearing record will remain open until 
12 p.m. tomorrow, March 1st, for the submission of statements 
and questions for the record.
    Seeing no other Members here to ask questions, this hearing 
is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:07 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                            A P P E N D I X

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