    [Senate Hearing 118-24]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                                                             S. Hrg. 118-24

                        NOMINATION OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   before the

                                  COMMITTEE ON
                   HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
                              UNITED STATES SENATE

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

             NOMINATION OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN TO BE ARCHIVIST OF THE
          UNITED STATES, NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 28, 2023

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov

                           Printed for the use of the
            Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs

            COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS

      [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                               ______

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
     52-482                WASHINGTON : 2023

                       GARY C. PETERS, Michigan, Chairman
    THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware           RAND PAUL, Kentucky
    MAGGIE HASSAN, New Hampshire         RON JOHNSON, Wisconsin
    KYRSTEN SINEMA, Arizona              JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma
    JACKY ROSEN, Nevada                  MITT ROMNEY, Utah
    ALEX PADILLA, California             RICK SCOTT, Florida
    JON OSSOFF, Georgia                  JOSH HAWLEY, Missouri
    RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut      ROGER MARSHALL, Kansas

                       David M. Weinberg, Staff Director
                        Zachary I. Schram, Chief Counsel
                      Claudine J. Brenner, Senior Counsel
                   Emily I. Manna, Professional Staff Member
               William E. Henderson III, Minority Staff Director
                  Christina N. Salazar, Minority Chief Counsel
           Adam J. Salmon, Minority Senior Professional Staff Member
                         Laura W. Kilbride, Chief Clerk
                       Ashley A. Gonzalez, Hearing Clerk

                                C O N T E N T S

                                     ------
    Opening statements:
                                                                       Page
        Senator Peters...............................................     1
        Senator Paul.................................................     2
        Senator Johnson..............................................    11
        Senator Hawley...............................................    13
        Senator Carper...............................................    16
        Senator Marshall.............................................    18
        Senator Ossoff...............................................    21
    Prepared statements:
        Senator Peters...............................................    23
        Senator Paul.................................................    25
        Senator Capito...............................................    27

                                   WITNESSES
                           Tuesday, February 28, 2023

    Colleen J. Shogan to be Archivist of the United States, National
      Archives and Records Administration
        Testimony....................................................     5
        Prepared statement...........................................    28
        Biographical and professional information....................    30
        Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics.................    57
        Responses to pre-hearing questions...........................    64
        Responses to post-hearing questions..........................    81
        Letters of support...........................................    87

                                    APPENDIX

    Senator Johnson letters to National Archives and Records
      Administration.................................................   103

                        NOMINATION OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2023

                                         U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Homeland Security
                                      and Governmental Affairs,
                                                        Washington, DC.
        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in room
    SD-562, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Gary Peters,
    Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
        Present: Senators Peters [presiding], Carper, Hassan,
    Rosen, Ossoff, Blumenthal, Paul, Johnson, Scott, Hawley, and
    Marshall.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PETERS\1\

        Chairman Peters. The Committee will come to order.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Senator Peters appears in the
    Appendix on page 23.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Today we are considering the nomination of Dr. Colleen
    Shogan to be Archivist of the National Archives and Records
    Administration.
        The Committee is holding a second hearing on this
    nomination at the request of our minority colleagues, and I
    hope that my colleagues will use this additional opportunity to
    ask substantive questions and evaluate Dr. Shogan's
    qualifications both carefully and fairly.
        Dr. Shogan, welcome back, congratulations once again on
    your nomination, and thank you for your willingness to serve in
    this very important position. You are exceedingly well-
    qualified to serve as the next Archivist of the United States
    (AOTUS), and I hope to see you confirmed very quickly to this
    important role.
        Throughout your career, you have served in several
    nonpartisan leadership positions with dedication and integrity,
    and during last year's nomination hearing, you demonstrated
    keen judgment, a deep understanding of the importance of the
    Archivist role, and a firm commitment to nonpartisanship and
    transparency.
        Last Congress, some of my colleagues raised concerns about
    potential partisan bias. However, your extensive track record
    shows these claims to be unfounded.
        This Committee has heard from many individuals and
    organizations who attest to Dr. Shogan's expertise and ability
    to work in a nonpartisan manner. These include the American
    Political Science Association (APSA), the Council of State
    Archivists (CoSA), the American Historical Association (AHA),
    and other national, nonpartisan and nonpolitical organizations
    who I will say have enthusiastically endorsed Dr. Shogan's
    nomination. I will enter all of the letters of support into the
    hearing record, which there are many here.\1\
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The letters of support appears in the Appendix on page 87.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Chairman Peters. The National Archives and Records
    Administration (NARA) is the Federal agency charged with
    maintaining and preserving Presidential and Federal records.
    Recent events have highlighted longstanding issues with
    Presidential records management and classification, and I
    understand that many of my colleagues are eager for more
    information on these issues.
        But I want to stress that, as you told us in your previous
    hearing, you are not able to provide details about current
    investigations related to Presidential records because--and
    this is a good reason--you do not currently work at NARA.
    Pretty straightforward. For my Committee colleagues, this is an
    area that this Committee has been actively engaged in, and it
    is an area that we will continue to be engaged in as we
    continue to examine this issue here in Congress.
        Last Congress, I convened a hearing to examine records
    management challenges and potential reforms. Following that
    hearing, I drafted legislation that will strengthen existing
    laws and modernize recordkeeping processes. I look forward to
    working with Ranking Member Paul and the other Members of the
    Committee to build on the work from last Congress to advance
    bipartisan legislation that will strengthen our records
    preservation laws.
        Today, I hope to have a constructive dialog about the
    current challenges facing the National Archives and Dr. Shogan,
    your plans for addressing those.
        The National Archives faces large backlogs of public
    records requests and requests for military personnel records
    that are essential, absolutely essential to ensuring veterans
    and servicemembers receive the benefits that they deserve and
    have earned.
        The Archivist will also be responsible for leading the
    transition to electronic records across the Federal Government.
    Confirming Dr. Shogan as the next Archivist will help the
    National Archives address these challenges.
        Assuring the full and accurate preservation of our nation's
    history is a monumental task and requires an independent,
    nonpartisan leader dedicated to serving the American public. I
    am confident that Dr. Shogan is the right choice to serve as
    the next National Archivist.
        Today I look forward to hearing more from you, Dr. Shogan,
    about your experience and qualifications and how you plan to
    serve. Again, thank you for being before us a second time.
        With that, Ranking Member Paul, you are now recognized for
    your opening remarks.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR PAUL\2\

        Senator Paul. Thank you and welcome. My wife and I are big
    fans of the National Archives and have been there many times,
    and have always felt like it was an organization that was
    nonpartisan, and I hope it can remain so.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \2\ The prepared statement of Senator Paul appears in the Appendix
    on page 25.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Every year, though, tens of thousands of Americans travel
    to their nation's capital to peacefully stand up for the right
    to life by participating in the March for Life. It is
    quintessential First Amendment activity.
        Just over a month ago though, on January 20th, was the 50th
    anniversary of the March.
        On their way to the march that morning, dozens of marchers
    decided to stop by the National Archives to see our nation's
    founding documents, including the Bill of Rights that
    guarantees their freedom to participate in the march they were
    headed to. Rather than being welcomed as more than a million
    other visitors are each year, these marchers, many of whom were
    school-aged children, were met by hostility by the Archives and
    forced to cover up or remove any pro-life messages. This has
    actually been directly decided by the Supreme Court of the
    United States (SCOTUS) as far as wearing T-shirts that either
    criticize a President or go against a political candidate, but
    it is actually protected speech, even in our schools, where you
    cannot for a student to cover up their shirt, and yet at the
    Archives they were forced to cover their shirts.
        In one example of many from that day, one young woman
    standing mere feet from the original Bill of Rights was told to
    cover her shirt, and her shirt read ``Life is a HUMAN RIGHT.''
        You heard that right. The guards charged with protecting
    the very parchment our Bill of Rights is written on repeatedly
    violated the First Amendment rights of marchers in the presence
    of the actual First Amendment. It is hard to imagine a more
    offensive way to violate their freedom of speech.
        While I understand some action has been taken, a more
    serious investigation is necessary. This is especially true
    because similar violations occurred at the Air and Space Museum
    that day as well.
        This is deeply disturbing that this would happen. Nothing
    like this can ever happen again, and we must understand who
    ordered it or tolerated it, and the culture that enabled this
    to happen.
        Lest anyone think I am being partisan about this, while I
    know of no similar violations of speech of those on the
    political left, I would have exactly the same position. If
    someone said they disliked Rand Paul and he was a terrible
    Senator, they have to right to wear that T-shirt.
        Beyond the Museum, the Archives is responsible for
    preserving Executive Branch documents, and that mission has not
    been without controversy either. Federal records law should be
    a strictly nonpartisan affair.
        Unfortunately, the difference in how the Archives appears
    to have handled the disputes over documents held by former
    President Trump and Vice President Pence, and President Biden
    on the other hand, raises questions about the impartiality of
    the agency. Specifically, the agency seems to have aggressively
    publicized the search for documents at President Trump and Vice
    President Pence's residences, but tried to keep quiet about the
    documents President Biden kept in at least three locations.
    While I think the larger issue here is really that too many
    things are classified, and that is something that you can have
    some effect on older documents and whether they remain
    classified, we really have to get over this. Everything is
    classified. In fact, it makes oversight of government worse.
        But even if it is classified, the rules need to be the same
    for both parties, and it looks as if there was a great deal of
    activity going after the Republicans and not so much for the
    Democrats. It was basically tea and crumpets for Biden, and the
    Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and drawing guns for
    Trump. It did not seem really appropriate to many of us.
        In another document management matter, the Archives
    investigated allegations that the National Institute of Health
    (NIH) improperly destroyed key documents related to Coronavirus
    Disease 2019 (COVID-19). This is important because we are still
    struggling to get information from the NIH. You would not think
    that a scientific organization was resisting document
    disclosure, but they are. The conclusion of that investigation
    seems to be that the Archives simply accepted NIH's word that
    they were not destroying records. Well, realize this is coming
    from an agency that you would think would be nonpartisan also,
    but that is resisting all of our entreaties for information.
        I have sent more than a dozen letters to NIH. See, people
    do not know this. I have sent a dozen letters, some of them
    signed by five Senators. The NIH will not give information to
    the Senate. We need somebody in a nonpartisan position to say
    we have to make sure they are not destroying records over
    there. I have yet to receive any of the documents requested in
    those letters. I am hoping the Chairman will choose to put some
    bipartisan heft behind this. But this is a real problem that
    the government is resisting records release. I have assured the
    Chairman that if the shoe was on the other foot and there was a
    Republican administration I will sign every document request
    because there is no government agency that should be able to
    resist the Senate's request for information.
        Determining whether any documents providing insight into
    the origins of COVID, some of these being improperly destroyed,
    warrants more than just a cursory review, and OK, NIH, we are
    just going to take your word for it.
        Today I want to hear what the Archives is going to do to
    ensure that records related to the origins of COVID-19 are
    properly preserved, as well as a commitment to provide us with
    all documents related to the investigation into the origins of
    COVID.
        Finally, there is a partisan pressure campaign underway to
    bully the Archivist into unilaterally amending the
    Constitution. Who would have ever guessed that somehow the
    Archivist would be involved with amending the Constitution? Do
    you think people were mad over the Supreme Court deciding
    versus the public or legislatures, deciding the issue of
    abortion? Can you imagine if an Archivist who is not thought to
    be someone elected to any kind of office or creating any
    legislation would somehow be in charge of amending the
    Constitution would alarm even the most cautious of folks.
        Congress imposed a deadline of 1982 for 38 States to ratify
    the Equal Right Amendment (ERA), a deadline that was not met.
    We do know the will of Congress on this. Lately, three States
    have attempted to ratify the amendment notwithstanding the
    legal deadline. However, there also have been five States that
    have taken back and removed their approval of this. When
    something murky, at best, you would think that Congress would
    be the arbiter of what would happen, or the people at the very
    least.
        But these activists, who conveniently ignore the five
    States that have withdrawn their ratification, want the
    Archivist to certify adoption of the amendment. To this point
    the nominee has rightly resisted such calls, but we will be
    looking for reaffirmation of that today.
        Thank you, and we welcome your testimony.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Paul.
        It is the practice of the Homeland Security and
    Governmental Affairs Committee (HSGAC) to swear in witnesses,
    so if you will stand and raise your right hand please.
        Do you swear the testimony you will give before this
    Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
    the truth, so help you, God?
        Dr. Shogan. I do.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you. You may be seated.
        Today's nominee is Dr. Colleen Shogan, nominated to be
    Archivist of the National Archives and Records Administration.
    Dr. Shogan currently serves as Senior Vice President and
    Director of the David M. Rubenstein National Center for White
    House History at the White House Historical Association and as
    an adjunct lecturer at Georgetown University.
        Dr. Shogan also moderates the Emerging Governance Leader
    Seminar at the Aspen Institute, and serves as a Vice Chair of
    the Women's Suffrage Centennial Commission, the bipartisan
    commission designated by Congress to commemorate the 19th
    Amendment.
        Previously she worked at the Library of Congress for over a
    decade in a variety of roles.
        Welcome, Dr. Shogan. You may proceed with your opening
    remarks.

     TESTIMONY OF COLLEEN J. SHOGAN, PH.D.,\1\ TO BE ARCHIVIST OF
    THE UNITED STATES, NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION

        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Mr. Ranking Member,
    and thank you distinguished Members of the Committee. Good
    morning. My name is Dr. Colleen Shogan, and my nomination to
    serve as the Eleventh Archivist of the United States is indeed
    the honor of a lifetime. I am likewise humbled by the
    opportunity to serve as the first nominated woman in the role.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The prepared statement of Dr. Shogan appears in the Appendix on
    page 28.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Before I continue, I would like to thank my husband Rob for
    being here today. He has consistently supported my career, and
    I know this will continue if I am confirmed as Archivist.
        In 2021, I was diagnosed with early stage breast cancer. I
    would like to take a moment to acknowledge my family, my close
    friends, my work colleagues, doctors, and nurses. They helped
    make today possible for me, and I am eternally grateful. I am
    healthy today because of their efforts.
        I must admit, this setting is quite familiar to me. Over 15
    years ago, I worked alongside this Committee as a congressional
    staffer. I never imagined I would be sitting on this side of
    the dais for a confirmation hearing.
        My passion for the American story started in the public
    high school I attended outside Pittsburgh, with engaging
    teachers who taught United States history and government. As a
    first-generation college student in my family, I was fortunate
    to receive a first-class education, which allowed me to explore
    the development and evolution of American ideas and
    institutions.
        My reverence for democratic principles, ideals, and
    governance led me to a career that included positions in
    academia, Federal Government service, and nonprofit management.
    Following my service in the Senate, I spent over a decade
    directly supporting Congress as a senior leader at the
    Congressional Research Service (CRS) and the Library of
    Congress. I also served as the Vice-Chair of the Women's
    Suffrage Centennial Commission, which commemorated the
    anniversary of the 19th Amendment without partisanship. These
    positions, including the one I hold today at the White House
    Historical Association, have instilled in me the tremendous
    value of nonpartisanship and access to trusted sources. I am
    confident that my years of experience in these unique roles
    have prepared me well to serve as the Archivist of the United
    States.
        The National Archives and Records Administration preserves
    the building blocks of our nation's democracy. NARA does this
    by enabling access to the government records which tell our
    national story in the words and images of the people who made
    history.
        This is critical for several reasons. First, it provides
    citizens with answers about family heritage, military service,
    and governmental decisions. Citizen engagement with Archives'
    materials online and in person through our nationwide system of
    archival research rooms and Presidential libraries is a top
    priority for NARA. The National Archives also provides
    researchers, historians, genealogists, educators, students, and
    other stakeholders with trusted information about our shared
    past.
        In my own research, I have benefited from examining NARA's
    records. As a political scientist, I strongly believe that we
    cannot understand our nation's present condition without a
    comprehensive understanding of the paths that brought us here.
    Along with our other Federal cultural institutions, NARA
    secures the repository of knowledge that enables such
    understanding, for scholars and citizens alike.
        Additionally, the National Archives provides vital records
    management services and guidance to all three branches of the
    government and is leading the governmentwide transition to
    electronic recordkeeping.
        Most importantly, NARA safeguards government records in the
    public trust to enable citizens, such as veterans, to claim
    their rights to hold their government accountable and to
    participate in the civic process.
        If confirmed, I will have many hills to climb in this
    position. I do not assume these challenges lightly. To succeed,
    we will need to find creative ways to become more efficient, to
    capitalize upon public-private partnerships, and to engage
    previously underserved communities in meaningful ways.
        Of course, NARA must do this as technologies improve at a
    lightning speed. Government is not always considered nimble
    when it comes to innovation, but the National Archives can
    serve as a leader in its transition to a primarily digital
    future. This will require investing in the Archives' talented
    workforce and making smart business decisions that will propel
    NARA forward.
        In a private meditation, Abraham Lincoln likened the
    principles of the Declaration of Independence to the ``apple of
    gold,'' a phrase contained in the Book of Proverbs. Lincoln
    knew it was his task to move the Nation toward a ``more
    perfect'' realization of these principles. As the 250th
    anniversary of our country approaches, that hard work
    continues. If confirmed, I look forward to sharing the
    treasured collection of the National Archives with all
    Americans. Thank you.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Dr. Shogan.
        There are three questions that the Committee asks of every
    nominee, and I am going to ask you to respond briefly to these
    questions with just a simple yes or no.
        First, is there anything you are aware of in your
    background that might present a conflict of interest with the
    duties of the office to which you have been nominated?
        Dr. Shogan. No.
        Chairman Peters. Second, do you know of anything, personal
    or otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and
    honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to
    which you have been nominated?
        Dr. Shogan. No.
        Chairman Peters. Last, do you agree without reservation to
    comply with any request or summons to appear and testify before
    any duly constituted committee of Congress if you are
    confirmed?
        Dr. Shogan. Yes.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you.
        Dr. Shogan, my first question is you are not an archivist,
    or a librarian or a historian. So could you tell the Committee
    what experience and skills you are going to be bringing to the
    role of Archivist of the United States?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question. As
    I stated in my opening statement, I bring over 15 years of
    experience in the government sector and in the nonprofit sector
    and increasing positions of importance. I bring management and
    supervisory skills to the table, working in all facets of
    government, including eight years at the Congressional Research
    Service, four years at the Library of Congress in senior
    executive positions, and then for the past three years as the
    Senior Vice President at the nonpartisan, nonprofit White House
    Historical Association.
        I also think I do have a very relevant educational
    background to serve as the Archivist of the United States. I am
    not a historian. I am a political scientist. But my areas of
    expertise were in American politics, in political philosophy,
    and in methodology, and I have really focused on the
    intersection of political science and history. That has been
    where my work has focused, which gives me a very good
    background in the history of ideas and institutions.
        Last, I would highlight that I have performed many of these
    roles, particularly for the past 15 years, in organizations in
    which their principles and values, most importantly, were of
    nonpartisanship.
        Chairman Peters. Dr. Shogan, the outreach and engagement
    with the public are absolutely essential parts of NARA's work.
    If confirmed, what are your priorities for educational
    outreach?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that question.
    This brings a lot of excitement and energy to me because I
    think that all of our students, all the way from students in
    elementary school all the way to graduate students, my vision,
    my hope is that they will turn to the National Archives first
    when they are engaging in research and exploration related to
    social studies, to American history, to civics.
        I know in this country we do have what some people have
    referred to as a deficit in a knowledge of American history and
    in civics, and that is improving and is getting better. But the
    National Archives can play a major role in helping to close
    this deficit. If I am confirmed, I look forward to looking to
    all kinds of third-party partnerships that would enable more
    access, more knowledge to students about the treasures.
        There are 205 million records online through the National
    Archives in the catalog. That is just amazing. It is the
    largest online archive in the world. It is unbelievable. We
    need to make sure that we are making use of those records,
    making sure that they are available to students. The way we do
    this is directly to students, but it is also through teachers.
    I would also want to evaluate our teacher professional training
    outreach. I know that this has been ongoing at the Archives. I
    would like to increase that outreach, increase opportunities
    for professional training for teachers to use our records in
    the classroom, and I would also like to bring back in-person
    training for teachers to the National Archives, if confirmed.
        Chairman Peters. Great. The next question relates to a
    problem that has to be resolved. It is an issue incredibly
    important to me, and I think every Member on this Committee as
    well. That issue is that NARA is currently facing a backlog of
    over 300,000 requests for military service records.
        Now I was glad to see that last week NARA released a plan
    to eliminate the backlog by December of this year--hopefully
    that will be accomplished--but I think I would like to hear, if
    confirmed, what steps you are going to take to ensure that goal
    is actually met.
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you for that question. This issue is of
    utmost importance to me. I come from a family of veterans. My
    father was a veteran. My uncles were veterans, my sister-in-
    law. It is of utmost importance. This goes right to the heart
    of access. Veterans need access to these records so they can
    claim the benefits that they are guaranteed because of their
    service to this country.
        If I am confirmed as Archivist of the United States I view
    this as being a discrete problem of the first magnitude. I plan
    to travel to the National Personnel Records Center, which is
    located outside of Saint Louis, and be able to view the
    procedures and processes that are in place right now. They are,
    as you said, Mr. Chairman, making good progress, and the goal
    is to reduce and eliminate that backlog by December 2023. But I
    would want to travel there and see the processes in place, see
    what else can be done so that we can speed up that deadline.
        Chairman Peters. Great. Dr. Shogan, if confirmed, you are
    going to play a key role in the transition to digital records
    across the scope of the Federal Government. Can you describe
    your experience leading efforts to expand digital resources as
    well as outreach?
        Dr. Shogan. Yes, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that question.
    I was lucky enough to be very much involved for the very
    origins of digital outreach and transformation at the Library
    of Congress. I was very much involved in the drafting of the
    first digital strategy at the Library of Congress. I would also
    point to my current position. As you know, COVID really removed
    a lot of in-person interactions after its inception. I think
    everybody that was working in cultural or historical
    institutions was faced with the prospect of having to get their
    information out in ways that they had never approached before.
        We were very aggressive in this regard at the White House
    Historical Association. It took a lot of time and effort. But
    we were able to do things such as going to the White House and
    create a very innovative, 360-degree tour of the White House
    that we were able to put online, and we were able to engage
    with students and teachers. We have made use of that 360-degree
    tour even now that people are back in person with COVID,
    because we know there are people that cannot travel to visit
    the White House.
        I would hope to make creative endeavors like the ones that
    I have done in my previous positions, and to apply those
    principles and strategies to the National Archives, so we could
    share the National Archives with as many Americans as possible,
    hopefully in person but also, of course, through digital means.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Dr. Shogan. Thank you for the
    answers to my questions.
        I now recognize Ranking Member Paul for his questions.
        Senator Paul. Do you believe that the Archivist has the
    power to certify amendments to the Constitution when there is a
    dispute as to how many States have ratified the amendment?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member. As I understand
    it, the function before the Archivist of the United States is
    what has been described as ministerial in function, so the
    Archivist publishes an amendment when it is part of the
    Constitution, not the decider.
        Senator Paul. Very good, and I think that is exactly right.
    In some ways it would probably be similar to sort of the
    certification of an election. When the Vice President comes in
    it was thought to be ministerial, not that the Vice President
    had the power to change or alter the election.
        Will you allow security at the Archives to force people to
    cover clothing that has political speech on it?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, for that
    question. Absolutely not.
        Senator Paul. Will you get to the bottom of how it
    happened? I do not know if this was some rogue person out there
    doing this or if those in charge were encouraging this. But
    will you promise to get to the bottom of it?
        Dr. Shogan. Absolutely, Mr. Ranking Member.
        Senator Paul. I think one of the things that American
    people hate most about government is when it appears as if
    justice or the adjudication of justice is partial, when Lady
    Liberty is not blind, Lady Justice is not blind, that there are
    different standards for people depending on their party. At
    least from where I sit, a lot of Republicans felt like there
    was a different standard really in the way the FBI treated
    Donald Trump and Joe Biden.
        The bigger problem, though, I think, is that everything is
    classified. We classify everything. The menu at the White House
    is supposedly classified. We have problems with too much
    classification.
        But it also makes oversight difficult. For example, a
    million Americans died from COVID. Somewhere between 12, 15,
    maybe 18 million people died worldwide from COVID. I cannot get
    records from the NIH because they classify them. I think it was
    the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) sent us a
    250-page document and redacted the whole thing. This is just
    sort of an insult, and I do not know how we get to it.
        You do not have complete control of this, but I think you
    have some control over the older records. How do you understand
    your role on the older records, being part of declassifying
    older records?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you for that question. Yes, as I
    understand it the agency that classifies information has the
    responsibility and the choice to declassify that information.
    But there is the National Declassification Center at the
    National Archives, located in Maryland, and if I am confirmed I
    plan to, of course, visit the National Declassification Center
    and also prioritize, as you said, Mr. Ranking Member, the older
    records that are waiting for declassification, figuring out how
    we can be most efficient in doing this and how we can
    strengthen relationships with those classifying agencies, those
    classifying entities, so that we are able to move some of these
    older documents through the process. I agree with that.
        Senator Paul. For the record here, on the Presidential
    controversy, what we are stuck with now is millions of dollars
    will be spent on these investigations, and there should be an
    investigation of neither Biden nor Trump nor Pence on this.
    They should be told that these are the rules and we should try
    to work with people that were in office.
        I think we are not going to find that the secrets to making
    a nuclear weapon were at someone's house. I think we are going
    to find that a lot of stuff is classified that does not need to
    be classified. But it began with sort of a witch hunt for
    Trump. Everybody loved it. The media cackled and rubbed their
    hands together and it went on for weeks and weeks. They had
    Donald Trump. They were going to get him. They were going to
    put him in jail. Like all the rest of the governments that are
    controlled by one party around the country, they just had glee
    until Biden was found to have records in a much less secure
    place, next to his Corvette in his garage.
        But I think we have overreacted to both. I have talked with
    the Chairman and others on the other side that we need to do
    something about this over-classification problem. What little
    part you can be of it, I realize and I do not want you to
    create a problem, but what you can do on the older records I
    think we would appreciate trying to get less. I look forward to
    working with the Chairman on trying to change this because we
    cannot have true oversight of government if HHS and NIH is
    telling us it is none of your business.
        We really have to get a hold of what is going on. To me the
    COVID thing is not about Biden at all. A lot of this happened
    in the previous administration so really it should not be
    partisan at all. We should all want to find these records.
        I am going to reserve my time for later if that is OK.
        Chairman Peters. That is fine, Senator Paul. Thank you.
        Senator Johnson, you are recognized for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR JOHNSON

        Senator Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
    start by making an appeal to the Chair, now we have the full
    Committee but also to my new Chair of the Permanent
    Subcommittee on Investigations (PSI). We have Senator Marshall,
    Senator Paul, and myself are very interested, as I think the
    American public is, in the origin of COVID. I think with the
    recent revelation now the Department of Energy (DOE) is tending
    toward a leak from a lab. We need to understand exactly how
    COVID started so we can prevent it from happening in the
    future.
        I think in this Committee we have the investigatory
    background, certainly my subcommittee does, and I would truly
    encourage the Chairs of the full Committee and the Permanent
    Subcommittee on Investigations to cooperate with us, and quite
    honestly, start a full-fledged Committee investigation into the
    origins. I think it is extremely important, as well as other
    aspects of our response to COVID, which I certainly have my
    viewpoint on that. The House is doing so, I think, in a pretty
    bipartisan fashion. There should be nothing partisan about this
    whatsoever.
        I really encourage you, as the Chair of the full Committee,
    and Senator Blumenthal to cooperate with us in those
    investigations.
        Dr. Shogan, in your third question that is standard in
    terms of asking nominees before the Committee, do you agree
    without reservation to comply with any request or summons to
    appear or testify before a duly constituted committee of
    Congress if you are confirmed, you answered that in the
    affirmative. I am asking, do you agree that that should be a
    request from the minority as well?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator Johnson, for that question.
    If I am confirmed I will be responsive to any requests or
    inquiries that you have, any members on this
        Committee have, or any members of the U.S. Senate or
    Congress, within compliance of existing law. I will do that.
        Senator Johnson. There is also legal counsel opinion in
    2001, which took a look at the language of the Presidential
    Records Act (PRA), where it is talking about ``to the extent of
    manner within its jurisdiction, to any committee or
    subcommittee thereof if such records contain information as
    needed for the conduct of its business that is not otherwise
    available.'' There is no mention of the majority, the minority,
    or a chairman of a committee or chairwoman of a committee
    making that request, but the Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) said
    that it is only a request from a chair.
        I understand that is the legal standard put forth by the
    Department of Justice, an agency within the Executive Branch.
    But I would argue, and I certainly experienced this, that it
    has dramatically hampered the rights of the minority to get the
    bottom of what is happening in government.
        In your testimony you mimic the website of the Archives in
    terms of what the purpose of the Archives is. According to the
    Archives website, ``In a democracy, records belong to the
    people. Records help us claim our rights and entitlements, hold
    our elected officials accountable for their actions, and
    document our history as a Nation. NARA ensures continuing
    access to the essential documentation of the rights of American
    citizens and the action of the government,'' and in your
    testimony you said you will be there to safeguard government
    and public records so that the citizens can claim their rights
    to hold government accountable.
        With that Office of Legal Counsel's opinion, if you have
    the presidency held by one party and both branches of
    government held by the same party, half the country, through
    their elected representatives, have no access to records. Do
    you understand that?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, I will need to get back to you on the
    OLC opinion that you are citing. I believe, as you said, that
    issued during the presidency of George W. Bush. But once again,
    I want to promise to be as responsive as possible, under the
    dictates of the law, to yourself, to other Members of this
    Committee, and to Members of the U.S. Senate and all Members of
    Congress, because I do believe, Senator, what you have stated
    is correct.
        The National Archives holds the records of the United
    States in custody for the American people, but the American
    people, it is their records, and I look forward to sharing them
    with as many Americans as possible while following the law.
        Senator Johnson. By the way, I think current majority
    leader Schumer had an issue with that same Office of Legal
    Counsel opinion back in 2018. I actually agree with Senator
    Schumer. I think it is absurd, if you believe in transparency
    of government, if you believe that these records are the
    records of the people, that in certain circumstances there is
    no possibility for the minority party to get access to records
    from the Administration so we cannot hold them accountable, and
    the American public cannot get information that it completely
    deserves to have. Do you agree with that position? Do you
    understand the quandary, the problem with that opinion?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, I do understand the problem that you
    are outlining, and once again, I promise if I am confirmed to
    share as many records as possible with the American people
    under the dictates of the law.
        Senator Johnson. If you become Archivist here, you will
    also be in charge of an agency that in addition to archiving
    other Executive Branch information you will have potential
    information yourself, for example, communications between
    yourself and, in this case, the Department of Justice (DOJ) in
    terms of how to handle the classified information that is in
    the hands of President Trump, President Biden, and Vice
    President Pence.
        I would like to, with consent, enter two letters,\1\ one
    January 23rd of this year and also February 24th, written by
    Senator Grassley and myself to the Acting Archivist, asking for
    information related to those investigations. We did not get a
    satisfactory answer in our January request so we had to follow
    it up with a February request. But the first one just said,
    ``If you become Archivist''--this is the question we asked of
    the Acting Archivist--``will you provide all records between
    the Archives and the Department of Justice relating to the
    Archives' response to our January 23, 2023, letter?'' I mean,
    will you provide those types of records? Or are you going to
    hide behind, oh, there is an active investigation, or only a
    Chair can request this?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ The letters submitted by Senator Johnson appears in the
    Appendix on page 103.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, I have not been briefed on any details
    regarding these incidents due to the Department of Justice
    investigations. I have not.
        Senator Johnson. I would just ask that, as you said, you
    would be responsive to our requests, should you become
    confirmed, and I would ask for your commitment to be responsive
    to our requests.
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Johnson.
        Senator Hawley, you are recognized for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR HAWLEY

        Senator Hawley. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        Dr. Shogan, when you were here last year a number of
    Senators asked you, including me, a series of questions about
    an article you had written, public statements you had made on
    social media that were, I have to say, pretty grossly partisan,
    and I thought offensive. You and I went back and forth about
    it.
        After that, a number of us asked you questions for the
    record relating to these statements. I want to follow up on one
    of them. I, in particular, asked you to give us a full
    accounting of the public posts that you had made on Twitter.
    You locked your Twitter account before you came before this
    Committee. It had previously been public. I asked you to
    provide the public posts that had previously been available on
    Twitter because the ones that we have were pretty disturbing.
        You responded as follows, ``My personal Twitter account is
    comprised of posts about my mystery novels, events at the White
    House Historical Association, Pittsburgh sports teams, travels,
    and my dog.'' Is this an accurate statement?
        Dr. Shogan. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Hawley. I just remind you you are under oath. Is
    this an accurate statement?
        Dr. Shogan. Yes, Senator.
        Senator Hawley. Let us talk a little bit about your Twitter
    posts then, that I was asking you about.
        On February 18, 2022, you posted on Twitter bemoaning the
    dropping of mask requirements for children, including those
    under the age of 5. Do you remember that post?
        Dr. Shogan. No, Senator. Those tweets were in my personal
    capacity.
        Senator Hawley. No. I asked you, would you give all public
    posts that you had made on Twitter. You said no, effectively,
    and you said that your Twitter posts consisted of ``mystery
    novels, events at the White House Historical Association,
    Pittsburgh sports teams, travels, and my dog.'' You just told
    me now, under oath, that you stood by that.
        Now let us talk about your Twitter posts. On February 18,
    2022, you posted bemoaning the fact that mask requirements for
    children under the age of 5--one of whom I happen to have, by
    the way--had been dropped. Is that a post about your dog or
    sports teams?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
        Senator Hawley. Answer my question, please, because you
    have testified under oath that you only posted about your dog
    and sports teams and novels, and you also said you would not
    give this Committee any of your public posts.
        Is your post on February 18, 2022, bemoaning the lifting of
    mask requirements for children under the age of 5, who I might
    just ask all of the data has said is extremely harmful to
    children, these mask requirements--we will leave that aside for
    now--is that a post about your dog or sports teams? Yes or no.
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. Yes or no, Dr. Shogan. You are under oath
    before this Committee, and I have to say you have placed this
    issue squarely in record by repeatedly refusing to answer. Yes
    or no?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. So you are not answering my question. Let
    us talk about another post.
        On May 26, 2022, you talk about an assault weapons ban,
    retweet a post ``Ban assault weapons now,'' saying you agree
    with this idea that you have to be a certain age to buy so-
    called assault weapons in America. Is that a post about sports
    teams or your dog or mystery novels?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. What about the post on January 5, 2021, in
    which you say that Ted Cruz ought to stay in his own lane and
    not worry about what is going on in Pittsburgh. This is a
    reference, I think, to questions he had about the certification
    of the last election. Is that a post about your dog or sports
    teams or mystery novels?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. Do you remember December 10, 2020, where
    you said that you were hoping that President Trump would have
    his vetoes overridden and you agree with the post that he was a
    weak policy President? Is that a post about your dog, sports
    teams, or mystery novels?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
        Senator Hawley. What about your post on January 5, 2021, in
    which you speculated that President Trump would pardon himself
    next, participating in a conversation about the certification
    of the Electoral College. Is that a post about sports teams,
    mystery novels, or your work at the White House Historical
    Association?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. Do you remember this one? We seem to be
    having an incredible case of amnesia, but maybe you remember
    this one. This is from December 3, 2021, in which you advised
    an individual who goes by ``Meg'' on social media, that the
    Library of Congress, who advised this person to complain about
    religious flags that had been planted on the grounds at the
    Library of Congress, and you say that they ought to be removed.
    You go on to give this person advice about how to complain and
    have them removed. Do you remember that post?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
        Senator Hawley. Do you remember the post?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. I have to say, I have been for four years
    in the Senate. I have never seen a witness stonewall like this
    before, never. I have seen a lot. This is extraordinary. Do you
    remember this post, December 3, 2021?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity,
    Senator.
        Senator Hawley. This is unbelievable, and you want to be
    the Archivist of the United States. You lied to us under oath.
    You lied to us in your questions for the record (QFRs). You
    just lied to me a second ago under oath, and now you are
    sitting here stonewalling, not answering questions about public
    posts that you made.
        Are you a lawyer, Dr. Shogan?
        Dr. Shogan. No, Senator.
        Senator Hawley. Are you familiar with the Shurtleff case at
    the United States Supreme Court?
        Dr. Shogan. No, Senator, I am not.
        Senator Hawley. In that case the Supreme Court held that,
    in fact, it constitutes viewpoint discrimination for a
    government entity to remove religious flags from its property
    when it has opened up the property for other people to put
    flags on it, exactly the question that you were addressing in
    your public posts on Twitter. You are giving legal advice,
    which you are not qualified to give, directly contrary to the
    United States Supreme Court. I just wonder, does this have to
    do with your view that you wrote about that the religious right
    is connected to the rise of anti-intellectualism in American
    politics? Is that what you said about religious flags, that the
    religious right is a force for anti-intellectualism? Explain
    that to me.
        Dr. Shogan. No, Senator.
        Senator Hawley. Do you stand by your comment that the
    religious right is part of the rise of anti-intellectualism in
    American politics?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, that article was written. It was about
    how Republican Presidents use common-sense terminology to
    effectively communicate with Americans.
        Senator Hawley. Yes, in which you said that the rise of the
    religious right is part of the rise in anti-intellectualism in
    American politics.
        I would just point out that is the article in which you
    say--the title is, ``Anti-Intellectualism in the Modern
    Presidency: Republican Populism.'' Very nonpartisan.
        Dr. Shogan, I am going to ask you again. Will you give to
    this Committee your public posts on Twitter? Will you make them
    available to this Committee?
        Dr. Shogan. My social media is in my personal capacity.
        Senator Hawley. Mr. Chairman, I have to tell you, this is
    the most extraordinary thing I have seen in my brief time in
    the Senate. I have never seen a witness blatantly lie under
    oath like Dr. Shogan has just done to this Committee,
    stonewalled this Committee, and just repeatedly refused to
    answer my questions about her own posts that are in public. For
    these reasons I will oppose your nomination, and I strongly
    urge this Committee to take action on this and force this
    witness to own up to the fact that she is misleading us right
    now, before our eyes, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Peters. Senator Carper, you are recognized for
    your question.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER

        Senator Carper. Thanks.
        Dr. Shogan, why don't you take a minute and just respond to
    some of what we have heard from Senator Hawley, please, and I
    promise not to interrupt you.
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator. I would like to highlight
    my nonpartisan record that I have achieved for the past 15
    years in service, in public service, eight years at the
    Congressional Research Service, four years at the Library of
    Congress, and the past three years at the nonpartisan White
    House Historical Association. I have worked very effectively
    with Republicans and Democrats in all of these capacities.
        When I worked at the Congressional Research Service I
    worked with hundreds of Members of Congress and Senators,
    committees, majority and minority alike. I walked into offices,
    helped them get from Point A to Point B, regardless of their
    partisan affiliation.
        In my current job at the White House Historical
    Association, I came to the White House Historical Association,
    I accepted the position late 2019, started the job in early
    2020, and when President Trump was the President of the United
    States I worked very effectively with that White House, and
    then, of course, now with President Biden in the White House, I
    have worked very effectively with that White House.
        I stand very strongly behind my professional nonpartisan
    record, which I think speaks for itself.
        Senator Carper. The information we just heard from my
    colleague, is this official? Is this like government emails? I
    do not really understand the source of them. Just explain it.
        Dr. Shogan. No. Social media in my personal capacity, as
    marked as much.
        Senator Carper. OK. It will be interesting to see what
    social media in a personal capacity looked like for some of the
    folks that we serve with. Thank you for setting the record
    straight.
        I want to begin by thanking you for joining us for today's
    hearing and for your willingness to serve our country. I am a
    veteran, the last Vietnam veteran serving here, and I am
    especially appreciative of the work in that regard.
        Over the last decade the National Archives and Records
    Administration has been putting together the tools to
    transition the Federal Government from paper to electronic
    records, and as the chief administrator of NARA, the Archivist
    plays a critical leadership role in the transition, as you
    know, to digital records, and providing appropriate support to
    staff will be crucial in the success of the transition.
        Here is my question. With that said, what administrative or
    policy changes would you implement at NARA in order to ensure
    the agency has the appropriate resources to carry out this
    transition from paper to digital, and how will you ensure the
    staff has the support and training that they need to
    efficiently accomplish this feat?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. It is a
    very big challenge for NARA, moving forward, the transition
    from predominantly analog to a predominantly digital archive.
        The first challenge, I think, Senator, will be that paper
    records are not going anywhere. Paper records have existed
    since the beginning of the republic. As the transition moves to
    digital records, after June 30, 2024, when the Office of
    Management and Budget (OMB) directive is implemented, the
    National Archives will still have to deal with paper records
    while they transition. To use a sports analogy, if you are a
    good basketball player you have to be able to play offense and
    defense, and the National Archives will have to be able to also
    serve paper records while they make the transition to digital.
    That will be the first challenge.
        The second challenge, I think, Senator, will be that when
    those digital records come to the National Archives the
    question will be, are the agencies providing the correct data
    that accompanies those records, because as you might imagine,
    there is going to be an exponential increase in the number of
    digital records compared to analog or paper records. What will
    really matter is if the accompanying data with those records
    will help our users find the records that they need. I think
    that is going to be a major challenge.
        Going forward, the Archives, we will need to provide
    correct training for staff, because just as I said before, the
    records have increased exponentially but the budget has not
    increased exponentially. Staff needs to be trained to be able
    to make this transition from paper to digital, and there will
    be different requirements for things like metadata. We can rely
    upon a very strategic use of training to be able to make sure
    staff are ready for that transition, and once again, being able
    to continue the servicing of the paper records while NARA
    becomes a predominantly digital agency.
        Senator Carper. All right. Thank you. One more question,
    dealing with the ability of the National Archives to adapt to
    advancements in recordkeeping technology. In 2014, under my
    leadership as Chairman of this Committee at the time--I think
    with Tom Coburn as my wingman--we passed the Presidential and
    Federal Records Act (FRA) which, among other things, certified
    that electronic records should be treated the same way as paper
    records.
        As a result of that clarification, NARA has seen an
    increase in the volume of records that they are required to
    collect and to preserve. These records document the important
    work that our Federal workforce conducts on a daily basis and
    need to be properly collected and preserved. As such, NARA
    requires the resources to ensure that proper protocols are in
    place to collect and maintain both paper and electronic
    records.
        My question. Dr. Shogan, how do you see NARA being able to
    adapt to advancements in recordkeeping technology to collect
    and preserve both paper and electronic records, and do you feel
    NARA has the resources to do that while responding to record
    requests?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you for that question. As I said in the
    previous answer, this is going to be the challenge, to be able
    to continue to service paper records as well as moving forward
    with the advancement to digital. I think the answer to that,
    Senator, is that the Federal agencies that are, of course,
    providing the records, whether they are paper or digital, need
    to engage earlier in the process. This will be NARA's
    responsibility to provide education and oversight to those
    agencies to get them to engage earlier in the process, so that
    their technologies and their data, once again, will meet the
    needs for users.
        I do not come to this as an archivist by training, but I do
    come to this as a user of the National Archives, and I look
    forward to bringing that perspective as a user to the National
    Archives as we move forward into the digital future.
        Senator Carper. Thank you. All of us on this Committee and
    in the Senate and House receive inquiries from our
    constituents, and a lot of them are veterans. I am especially
    interested in seeing us be able to provide better responses in
    that regard.
        Thank you so much for your willingness to serve in this
    role. Thank you.
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you. Senator Marshall, you are
    recognized for your questions, and welcome once again to the
    Committee. We love having you here.

                 OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR MARSHALL

        Senator Marshall. Thank you, Senator Peters. Glad to be
    here, and welcome, Dr. Shogan. We are glad you are here as
    well.
        Dr. Shogan, as you know over 1 million Americans and over
    10 million people worldwide have died from COVID. Recently the
    Department of Energy released information that they have
    changed their mind and they believe that this virus originated
    in Wuhan, China, joining our own FBI.
        Earlier you committed to Ranking Member Paul to try and
    declassify older records. Do you feel that America deserves to
    know the origins of COVID, and will you do everything possible
    to declassify these recent records, including why the
    Department of Energy changed their mind?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. It is
    nice to meet you and welcome to the Committee. We did not have
    a chance to chat before.
        Senator, as I understand it the agencies that classify
    records also hold the responsibility to declassify those
    records, so that would not be in the direct purview of the
    Archivist of the United States. But nonetheless, at the
    National Archives, a principal value is the value of
    transparency. I will be responsive to any requests that you
    might have while following the law, and of course, in areas of
    classification finding the appropriate balance between
    transparency and, of course, critically protecting our national
    security.
        Senator Marshall. OK. I want to talk for a moment about the
    storage of data done from research funded with United States
    dollars and how you feel your role would be in this.
        In September 2019, the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV)
    terminated access to an important database that was populated
    with genomic sequences resulting in part or from United States-
    sponsored research. We still do not have access to those, to
    that data. Similarly, in 2020, the WIV removed genomic data
    stored at our own NIH genomic lab bank here in this country.
        What are your plans to require hosting of data for U.S.
    sponsored research in the United States, and what are your
    plans to pursue any type of punitive actions against the Wuhan
    Institute of Virology for terminating access to our data paid
    for with U.S. dollars?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Senator, for that question. I am not
    familiar with some of the facts that you have just explained to
    me. I have not been briefed about those matters. But if I am
    confirmed as Archivist of the United States I promise that I
    will look into those matters. I am happy to meet with you or
    meet with your staff to follow up on those matters.
        Senator Marshall. Do you believe that if the United States
    is funding that type of research that it should be transparent,
    it should be stored, it should be available to the public?
        Dr. Shogan. I believe all agencies must follow the
    requirements and dictates in the Federal Records Act.
        Senator Marshall. OK. In 2017, it was discovered that the
    NIH was deleting records. While a number of those records have
    been fully or partially recovered, many have not. NARA has
    acknowledged receipt of an NIH report about the record
    deletion, but to my knowledge it has not been made public.
        Are you aware of this report or the subject of the deleted
    files, and are you willing to submit them to this Committee for
    further review?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, I have not been briefed. I am not
    privy to those details, but I will be responsive to you under
    the requirements of the law, for sure.
        Senator Marshall. Will you make those records available to
    this Committee, if not publicly?
        Dr. Shogan. If I am confirmed I will follow the dictates
    required in the Federal Records Act and all associated
    regulations, Senator.
        Senator Marshall. Kind of change subjects here for a
    second. Last Congress I was shocked to find out that the
    National Archives had, and continues to label, our founding
    documents as containing trigger warnings. That is right. The
    National Archives, on their website, States that the
    Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the Bill of
    Rights contains harmful content.
        I introduced legislation with Senator Risch to remove these
    designations and would like to understand your personal opinion
    on our found documents and the role of the National Archives in
    sharing them with our citizens. Do you believe personally that
    the Constitution and our founding documents are harmful?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, absolutely no.
        Senator Marshall. Do you think we should remove that
    warning label that they are trigger warnings there?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, there is a harmful content warning but
    it is on all results when you use NARA's online catalog. It is
    not attached to any one record, such as the United States
    Constitution or the Declaration of Independence. Previously,
    when I testified before this Committee, I did state, I believe
    to Senator Lankford, that I would be willing to work with him
    about the language of that warning, and I stand behind my
    promise to do so, if I am confirmed.
        Senator Marshall. OK. Thank you. I yield back.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Marshall.
        Ranking Member Paul had two minutes left in his time that
    he graciously passed to allow Members to speak. Ranking Member
    Paul, you are recognized for two minutes.
        Senator Paul. I was favorably inclined by your answer,
    particularly that your role as the Archivist is ministerial
    with regard to certifying amendments to the Constitution. Also
    on your, I think, forthright answer on whether or not you would
    force people to cover their T-shirts. I thought those were
    great responses.
        I guess I am sort of torn, though, with the whole idea that
    your Twitter is private. We tell our kids it is not and be
    careful what you post on Twitter. Everybody knows that.
        The problem is that, see, if I have an intern in my office,
    we actually do look at their Twitter, and if they say bad
    things about people's ethnicity or their private life, they
    make sort of aspersions or act as if they are bigoted in any
    way, we will not hire them as an intern, much less as a person.
    This is advice for everybody. You have to really be careful
    what you post.
        Now, being a liberal should not disqualify you, but the one
    question on whether or not, the Library of Congress should take
    down flags does kind of go to the heart of what we would do
    with records and things and whether or not that shows a bias
    that might enter into the decisionmaking as an archivist. It
    does worry me, not that you are liberal. I think if we got rid
    of liberals we might not have a lot of librarians or
    archivists, frankly.
        But I am worried about the idea that you would advise
    people at the Library of Congress about taking down religious
    flags in a public place. I think it goes against the law. But
    then in not answering the actual issue--and I know it is
    difficult in a cross-examination to decide--but not answering
    the subject about religious flags, it worries me that what we
    are getting is the public face as opposed to what you say in
    private, which may not meld together.
        Do you have any comment on that?
        Dr. Shogan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, for that
    question. If I am confirmed as Archivist of the United States,
    without reservation I will welcome all Americans to the
    National Archives. I will welcome them enthusiastically to the
    National Archives. I stand 100 percent behind that sentiment. I
    have a record of doing so at the Library of Congress, where I
    oversaw visitor services for several years, and I will continue
    in that tradition. You have my promise and my word on that.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Ranking Member Paul. Senator
    Ossoff, you are recognized for your questions.

                  OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR OSSOFF

        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Dr. Shogan,
    good to see you again, and I congratulate you again on your
    nomination.
        You and I have discussed this issue previously so you will
    not be surprised to hear that I am eager to hear again your
    commitments to work with me to address the significant delays
    that veterans are experiencing accessing their service records.
    As you know, Dr. Shogan, to access their Department of Veterans
    Affairs (VA) benefits and other services to which they are
    entitled, as veterans, veterans need access to the military
    service records which are in the custody of the Archives.
        The good news is that with Chairman Peters' support, last
    year I introduced and passed into law the bipartisan Access for
    Veterans to Records Act, in order to address the serious
    backlog of requests for access to military service records. In
    your hearing last September you committed to working with my
    office to address that backlog.
        I want to ask you again, now that my bipartisan legislation
    is law, will you commit to working with me swiftly to eliminate
    the backlog of veterans' record requests at National Personnel
    Records Center (NPRC)?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, thank you for that question.
    Absolutely.
        Senator Ossoff. What is your understanding of the latest
    state of that backlog? What efforts are underway now to address
    it? What do you think will need to be done if and when you
    assume this office, in order to eliminate it?
        Dr. Shogan. Senator, I think there is good news in that
    regard. The backlog is down to about 330,000 requests. The
    height of the backlog was over 600,000 requests, so that is
    good progress. The project timeline for completion of the
    backlog, or elimination of it, is in December 2023. If I am
    confirmed, I promise to make my first trip as Archivist of the
    United States to Saint Louis, to the National Personnel Records
    Center, to see the operations on the ground, to figure out
    where we can find deficiencies, to make sure that are using
    contractual authorities to the highest extent, to make sure
    that work gets done in an expeditious fashion, and also to
    explore any other creative solutions where we might be able to
    move that deadline up. Although ambitious, December 2023, I
    think we can all agree we would like to have that sooner, if
    possible.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Dr. Shogan. Let us talk now
    about civil rights cold cases, Black Americans who, in the
    segregation era, were dragged from their homes, abducted,
    assaulted, lynched, subject to horrific abuse and murder for
    which there was and remains impunity. Some of the most horrific
    crimes in our national history, they were never prosecuted, and
    the descendants and survivors of those victims are still with
    us. They rightfully demand justice.
        The good news is that we are making some progress toward
    security justice, and last Congress I passed into law the
    bipartisan Civil Rights Cold Case Investigations Support Act,
    to give them tasked with investigating these civil rights cold
    case the time they need to pursue justice.
        The Archives have an important role to play in supporting
    those investigations. If you are confirmed, will you use your
    authorities to the fullest extent you can under the law to
    support those efforts to investigate civil rights cold cases,
    those unsolved lynchings, those unsolved assaults and
    abductions from the segregation era South?
        Dr. Shogan. Absolutely, Senator. I think that falls under
    the Archives' priority of providing access, and providing
    access to populations that need access to those records. We
    talk about veterans previously. That is, of course, so the
    veterans can claim their benefits. In this instance it is so
    the people can claim justice.
        Senator Ossoff. Thank you, Dr. Shogan. I have constituents
    who will be relieved to hear you make that commitment. Mr.
    Chairman, I yield back.
        Chairman Peters. Thank you, Senator Ossoff.
        I would like to thank you again, Dr. Shogan, for joining us
    today and for your willingness to serve in this very important
    position.
        The nominee has filed responses to biographical and
    financial questionnaires,\1\ and without objection this
    information will be made part of the hearing record, with the
    exception of the financial data which is on file and available
    for public inspection in the Committee offices.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\  The information on Dr. Shogan appears in the Appendix on page
    30.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Chairman Peters. The hearing record will remain open until
    12 p.m. tomorrow, March 1st, for the submission of statements
    and questions for the record.
        Seeing no other Members here to ask questions, this hearing
    is now adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 11:07 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]

                                A P P E N D I X

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