[Senate Hearing 118-504]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 118-504
TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVEL-
OPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPRO-
PRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024
=======================================================================
HEARINGS
before a
SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON
H.R. 4820/S. 2438
AN ACT MAKING APPROPRIATIONS FOR THE DEPARTMENTS OF TRANS-
PORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, AND RELATED
AGENCIES FOR THE FISCAL YEAR ENDING SEPTEMBER 30, 2024, AND
FOR OTHER PURPOSES
__________
Department of Transportation
Department of Housing and Urban Development
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Appropriations
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
50-536 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON APPROPRIATIONS
PATTY MURRAY, Washington, Chairman
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine, Vice
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois Chairman
JACK REED, Rhode Island MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
JON TESTER, Montana LISA MURKOWSKI, Alaska
JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
JEFF MERKLEY, Oregon JERRY MORAN, Kansas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
TAMMY BALDWIN, Wisconsin SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut Virginia
JOE MANCHIN, West Virginia JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi
MARTIN HEINRICH, New Mexico BILL HAGERTY, Tennessee
GARY PETERS, Michigan KATIE BRITT, Alabama
MARCO RUBIO, Florida
DEB FISCHER, Nebraska
Evan Schatz, Staff Director
Elizabeth McDonnell, Minority Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, and
Related Agencies
BRIAN SCHATZ, Hawaii, Chairman
PATTY MURRAY, Washington (ex CINDY HYDE-SMITH, Mississippi,
officio) Ranking
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine (ex
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California officio)
JACK REED, Rhode Island JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
CHRISTOPHER A. COONS, Delaware SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
CHRISTOPHER MURPHY, Connecticut Virginia
JOE MANCHIN, West Virginia LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland JOHN HOEVEN, North Dakota
JOHN KENNEDY, Louisiana
JERRY MORAN, Kansas
Professional Staff
Dabney Hegg
Kelsey Daniels
Rajat Mathur
Jessica Sun
Michael Clarke (Minority)
Michael Ciamarra (Minority)
Cameron O'Brien (Minority)
Administrative Support
Abby Laver
Alex Shultz (Minority)
C O N T E N T S
----------
HEARINGS
Thursday, March 23, 2023
Page
Department of Transportation..................................... 1
Thursday, April 20, 2023
Department of Housing and Urban Development...................... 53
----------
back matter
List of Witnesses, Communications, and Prepared Statements....... 93
Subject Index:
Department of Transportation................................. 95
Department of Housing and Urban Development.................. 96
.
TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DE-
VELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES AP-
PROPRIATIONS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2024
----------
THURSDAY, MARCH 23, 2023
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met at 10:00 a.m. in room 192, Dirksen
Senate Office Building, Hon. Brian Schatz (chairman) presiding.
Present: Senators Schatz, Murray, Reed, Coons, Manchin,
Van-Hollen, Hyde-Smith, Collins, Moran, Hoeven, Boozman,
Capito, and Kennedy.
DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
STATEMENT OF HON. PETE BUTTIGIEG, SECRETARY
opening statement of senator brian schatz
Senator Schatz. Good morning. This hearing will come to
order. Good morning and welcome to everyone, especially the new
Ranking Member, Senator Hyde-Smith. I am excited to work with
you. I know you appreciate the importance of infrastructure and
housing in your home State, and we have already talked about
some of these priorities.
I have had the pleasure of working with Senator Collins for
the last 2 years, and we have been able to find common ground
on everything from aviation safety to youth homelessness and
affordable housing.
Every member on this committee knows the importance of
stable bridges, efficient airports, and safe cars, and so I
look forward to continuing the bipartisan and cooperative
nature of this subcommittee with you, Senator Hyde-Smith,
Secretary Buttigieg, thank you for appearing today to testify
on the President's fiscal year 2024 request for the Department
of Transportation.
We very much look forward to discussing your sustained
focus on safety, equity, and climate at the Department. We are
in the second year of implementing the Infrastructure
Investment and Jobs Act that brought historic investments to
our transportation systems.
On a bipartisan basis, we made the right decision to fix
our aging infrastructure and begin taking steps to adapt to
climate change. But we face a reversal of that commitment--we
do face a reversal of that commitment if we entertain the House
majority proposal to return to 2022 funding levels.
We would face an automatic cut of $16 billion simply
because of the increase to HUD rental assistance and lowering
offsetting receipts from FHA and Ginnie Mae, excuse me. This
would decrease FAA's air traffic controller workforce and
safety inspectors, and lead to major flight cancellations and
delays, and it would hurt all sectors of transportation, would
face cuts to essential air service, Amtrak, subway service in
big cities, and bus service in rural areas.
The impact on safety would be even worse. There would be
fewer inspections of new Boeing aircraft, fewer inspections of
bridges like the one that collapsed in Pittsburgh last year,
and fewer inspections of the rail lines like the one in East
Palestine.
These issues are outlined in a letter from you, Mr.
Secretary, to Chairwoman DeLauro, which I am submitting for the
record, and I encourage my colleagues to review. Now is not the
time to slash critical investments if we want to sustain the
progress we have made in investing in our infrastructure.
Instead, we need to build on that success. The President's
budget request does exactly that with strong investments in
FAA, rail research, and highway safety. Specifically, it
includes a hiring surge for air traffic controllers after the
COVID crisis, shutting down the training academy for 2 years.
A number of recent near misses have highlighted the need
for more training and technology, and new ways of thinking
throughout the aviation industry. The COVID relief funding for
airlines and airports allow the aviation sector to recover
quickly, and it is incumbent on us to have the qualified staff
to meet the growing demand. Airlines also need to be held
accountable.
The Secretary is engaged with the airlines on how to
improve the customer experience, and I think more needs to be
done. While the budget request was written before the East
Palestine incident, we need to work together to improve
standards and deploy technologies to prevent future incidents.
I support the recommendations to revisit the cost share for
rural transit and the benefits this also provide to tribal
transportation. I think we need to do more to improve access to
competitive programs for tribes where cost share is really a
barrier to accessing Federal funds. I also need to mention road
safety.
The National Safety Council estimates that more than 46,000
people were killed in motor vehicle crashes in 2022. That is
nearly 10,000 more, 10,000 more than 10 years ago. In Hawaii,
roadway deaths were up 24 percent in a 1 year period. Just
yesterday, six construction workers were killed on the
Baltimore Beltway when a driver crashed into a work zone.
Too many tragedies like this occur every day and we know
they can be prevented. NHTSA needs to rapidly implement the
rules Congress directed, some of which are more than a decade
overdue. I want to just say that again. NHTSA needs to rapidly
implement the rules that Congress directed, some of which are
more than a decade overdue. I look forward to your explanation
of the delays and a plan moving forward.
With all that said, Secretary Buttigieg, I look forward to
hearing your testimony shortly. Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, I
want to reiterate how glad I am to see you as Ranking Member of
this subcommittee, and I turn to you for your opening
statement.
statement of senator cindy hyde-smith
Senator Hyde-Smith. And let me begin by thanking Chairwoman
and the Vice Chairman of the Appropriations committee for
joining us today.
And Vice Chairman Collins, I am certainly committed to
upholding your thoughtful and your effective leadership on this
subcommittee for the past several years, and I appreciate your
work there because you have truly been a strong advocate for
your constituents and such success on bipartisan working
relationships. But I would also like to thank the Chairman
Schatz for that kind welcome.
Mississippi and Hawaii may be in different time zones and
face different transportation infrastructure challenges, but I
am confident that we will find common ground to work together
in this subcommittee and address the obstacles facing not only
our constituents but all Americans.
And as we work to craft responsible funding legislation for
fiscal year 2024, I look forward to continuing the
collaborative spirit that you and Vice Chairman Collins have
established. I also welcome our witness, Secretary Buttigieg,
and I certainly enjoyed our visit yesterday when you came to my
office and look forward to your testimony and I look forward to
working with you.
The Department's budget request comes in the wake of, as we
have discussed, several serious and troubling incidents across
our transportation sectors, including multiple near misses at
airports, the closing of our nation's airspace for the first
time since 9/11 from an infected fall of the notice to air
mission systems, otherwise known as Notice to Air Missions
(NOTAMS), and numerous derailments, most notably those in East
Palestine, Ohio.
We must continue to ensure that we have the safest, most
reliable transportation network in the entire world. And the
appropriations process is the best way to provide oversight and
evaluate the funding needs. We also must ensure that our rural
communities have adequate support from the Federal Government.
Rural communities face very unique challenges. What works
in larger urban areas often does not work in smaller rural
areas like those across Mississippi. As such, we must formulate
a funding bill that strikes a healthy balance that we can meet
the needs of all Americans. The Administration's fiscal year
2024 request in DOT is $108.5 billion, which is 1 percent
increase over the fiscal year 2023 enacted levels.
I am disappointed to see that even with the proposed
increase funding, this request zeroes out programs that are
priorities for this subcommittee. Specifically, this budget
request zeroes out the RAISE Grant Program that the Bridge
Formula Program and the Airport Improvement Program
supplemental funding--each of these programs have been very
crucial for rural communities, especially in states like
Mississippi.
Some past projects that I would like to highlight right now
is a RAISE Grant award to Yazoo City, Mississippi. Everybody
has trouble pronouncing Yazoo City, which will be used to make
much needed infrastructure updates and to revitalize their main
street.
In an airport improvement program investment at Key Field
in Meridian, Mississippi, to rehabilitate the runway and
install a runway guidance system that will improve safety and
allow the airport to operate more efficiently.
However, pleased to see that the budget request continues
to fully fund the Essential Air Service Program, which ensures
connectivity to our nation's rural communities, as well as
investments to modernize and increase safety at the FAA.
Smaller airports, like the ones located in Greenville, Tupelo,
and Hattiesburg, Mississippi, benefit from the Essential Air
Service (EAS) program to ensure safe travel for customers
needing access to smaller markets.
New businesses will rarely locate in areas without
dependable commercial air service. So, these smaller airports
are very vital for the economic development in these areas.
Additionally, the budget request includes robust funding for
the Consolidated Rail Infrastructure and Safety Improvements
grant programs to develop a safer rail network.
So, I believe that the funding decisions need to be met
with fiscal responsible decisionmaking that ensures taxpayers
are prioritized also. With that in mind, Secretary Buttigieg, I
look forward to hearing from you and working together for the
American people. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Thank you very much. Are there any members
wishing to make an opening statement? If not, Secretary
Buttigieg, please proceed with your testimony.
summary statement of hon. pete buttigieg
Secretary Buttigieg. Thank you very much, Chair Schatz,
Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, Vice Chair of the committee Collins
and all of the members of the subcommittee here for the
opportunity to discuss the President's fiscal year 2024 budget
request for the Department of Transportation, totaling $145
billion.
The budget will propel our Department's work across our
three major categories of effort, running our operations well
in the agency, building good things well across the country,
and protecting the safety and well-being of everyone who
interacts with America's transportation systems.
In each of these areas, of course, Congress plays a
fundamental role. And I want to thank members on both sides of
the aisle who have been true partners as we have worked to
build a stronger, safer transportation system.
I join you today at a moment of historic challenge as well
as opportunity in our transportation systems, as they cope with
profoundly disruptive forces that include continued shockwaves
from the coronavirus pandemic, increasing threats from climate
change, and the effects of decades of disinvestment, which are
thankfully coming to an end as we implement the Infrastructure
Investment and Jobs Act (IIJA).
A further source of instability has to do with the conduct
of many players in transportation related industries. Over the
years, a drastic tendency away from competition and toward
concentration has developed, while at the same time, many of
the biggest firms were slashing staff and costs, often boosting
their profitability, but too often at the public's expense.
And the result is a transportation system today that is
still too vulnerable, and when any part of it strains or
breaks, the costs are borne by the American people. But we are
also in a moment of tremendous opportunity and progress.
We are making infrastructure investments across the
country, using the funds that Congress entrusted to us. And we
are seeing some new and welcomed bipartisan support in this
chamber for much needed safety regulations on freight
railroads, including a number of policies we had been calling
for and which we strongly support.
I would like to highlight a few vital areas where we have
made progress in the last year and the further strides we can
make through the President's fiscal year 2024 budget. On
aviation, we are getting airlines to honor the tickets that
they sell while advancing safety measures across industry and
within the FAA.
But there is still far more to do as recent events make
clear. The 2024 budget invests $24.8 billion to make needed
investments to add air traffic controllers, improve the safety
and capacity of America's airports, and accelerate the
modernization of critical systems and infrastructure, such as
the notice to air missions system.
On rail, we have made nearly $18 billion available to
improve rail service and safety and published our proposed rule
requiring a minimum of two train crew members. Derailments may
be down compared to prior decades, but we are still seeing far
too many.
For every community like East Palestine that has been
impacted, and every community wondering if they're next, the
status quo is clearly not acceptable. The President's budget
includes $273 million to support Federal Railroad
Administration safety personnel, expand inspection
capabilities, and increase stakeholder engagement to address
risks.
Meanwhile, we put 3,700 bridges and almost 70,000 miles of
road on the path to improvement, which means a safer ride and
lower maintenance costs for millions of families and truck
drivers. And we awarded grants for the first ever Safe Streets
and Roads for All program.
We still see far too many fatal crashes on our roads, and I
want to join the Chair in pausing to acknowledge the tragic
crash on I-695 in Maryland yesterday when a driver entered a
work zone, struck and killed multiple workers. We cannot and
must not accept that roadway fatalities are an inevitable part
of life in America.
Our budget includes $3.1 million for the Highway Safety
Improvement Program, new funding for safer walking and biking
infrastructure, advanced safety research initiatives, and
Strengthening Mobility and Revolutionizing Transportation
(SMART) grants like the ones we awarded just this week that
pilot innovative solutions to protect drivers, pedestrians,
bicyclists, and construction workers.
With regard to transit, we have advanced projects from bus
rapid transit in Charleston to light rail in Seattle. The
budget includes $4.45 billion for Capital Investment Grants to
move forward with major projects that improve American
transportation for generations, like the Hudson River tunnels
and the FrontRunner double track project in Salt Lake City. And
the budget also includes policy proposals that would allow
transit agencies the flexibility they need to adapt to post-
pandemic shifts in ridership.
For supply chains, we have made critical investments in
ports from Columbus, Mississippi, to Los Angeles so that goods
move more quickly. And we have taken measures that have helped
the course of Pacific shipping rates go down by 80 percent.
This budget provides $230 million for the Port
Infrastructure Development Program to build on this important
work. There is a great deal of progress underway and a great
deal yet to be done.
Together, we are stewards of a transportation system
finally seeing renewal in its physical foundations but showing
real points of vulnerability that endanger communities and
workers, especially in the places where Federal oversight and
regulation have been undermined.
Congress was able to pass a bipartisan infrastructure law,
of proportions that eluded our predecessors for decades. Now we
need that same bipartisan strength to sustain these ongoing
infrastructure investments, to make progress on safety
regulations, and to protect Americans counting on that
infrastructure.
Thank you again for the opportunity to appear, and I am
looking forward to your questions.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Peter Buttigieg
Chair Schatz, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, and Members of the
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss
President Biden's Fiscal Year 2024 Budget request for the
Department of Transportation, totaling $145 billion.
The budget will propel our Department's work across our
three major categories of effort: running our operations well
in the agency; building good things well across the country;
and protecting the safety and wellbeing of everyone who
interacts with America's transportation systems--from
pedestrians to airline passengers to rail workers.
In each of these areas, Congress of course plays a
fundamental role. I want to thank Members on both sides of the
aisle who have been true partners as we work to build a
stronger, safer transportation system.
I join you today at moment of historic challenge and
opportunity in our transportation system, as it copes with
profoundly disruptive forces that include continued shockwaves
from the coronavirus pandemic, increasing threats from climate
change, and the effects of decades of disinvestment which are
thankfully coming to an end now that we are implementing the
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act.
I believe that a further source of instability across our
transportation systems has to do with the conduct of many
players in transportation-related industries. Over the years, a
drastic tendency away from competition and towards
concentration has been visible in these industries. And at the
same time, many of the biggest firms in transportation have
slashed staff and costs, often boosting their profitability but
too often at the expense of operational effectiveness and
public benefit.
As these patterns collide, we have seen effects ranging
from exhaustion of rail workers that labor organizations have
warned could undermine safety, to strained supply chains
requiring concentrated public sector attention and
intervention.
The result is a transportation system today that is still
too vulnerable, and when any part of it strains or breaks, the
costs are borne by the American people--from the frustrations
of millions of airline passengers to the terror felt by the
residents of East Palestine, Ohio after the derailment there.
But we are also in a moment of tremendous opportunity and
progress. We are making infrastructure investments across the
country using the tools and funds that Congress provided to
us--and we are seeing some new and welcome bipartisan support
for much-needed safety regulations, including a number of
policies we have called for, and which we strongly support.
I'd like to highlight a few critical areas where we have
made progress in the last year, and the further strides we can
make through the President's Fiscal Year 2024 budget.
On aviation, we are getting airlines to honor the tickets
they sell and compensate passengers fairly when there are
issues, while advancing safety measures across industry and
within the FAA. But there is still far more to do, as recent
events make clear. The 2024 budget invests $24.8 billion to
make needed investments to add air traffic controllers, improve
the safety and capacity of America's airports, and accelerate
the modernization of critical systems and infrastructure such
as the Notice to Air Mission System.
On rail, we have made nearly $18 billion available to
improve rail service and safety, advanced more than 70 critical
rail projects across the country, and published our proposed
rule requiring a minimum of two train crewmembers. Derailments
may be down compared to prior decades, but we're still seeing
far too many. And incidents in rail yards and with at-grade
crossings are on the rise. For every community like East
Palestine that has been impacted, and every community wondering
if they're next, the status quo is clearly not acceptable.
That's why the President's budget includes $273 million to
support Federal Railroad Administration safety personnel,
expand inspection capabilities, and increase stakeholder
engagement to address risks.
Meanwhile, we have put 3,700 bridges on the path to
improvement, so trucks and commuters can get where they need to
be without delay; we are helping States improve almost 70,000
miles of roads, which means a safer ride and lower maintenance
costs for millions of families; we awarded grants for the
first-ever Safe Streets and Roads For All program, and partners
are stepping up in response to our National Roadway Safety
Strategy. But we still see far too many fatal crashes on our
roads. Our budget includes $3.1 billion for the Highway Safety
Improvement Program, new funding for safer walking and biking
infrastructure, and advanced safety research initiatives.
On transit, we have advanced projects from bus rapid
transit in Charleston, to light rail in Seattle. This budget
includes $4.45 billion for Capital Investment Grants, to move
forward with major projects that will improve American
transportation for generations, like the Hudson River Tunnels
between New York and New Jersey, and the Front Runner Double
Track project in Salt Lake City. The budget also includes
policy proposals that would allow transit agencies the
flexibility to use formula funding for operating expenses to
adapt to post-pandemic shifts in ridership.
On supply chains, we have made critical investments in
ports from Columbus, Mississippi to Los Angeles so that goods
move more quickly--and we have taken measures that helped cut
the number of ships waiting at America's largest ports from
over 100 down to the single digits, and helped bring Pacific
shipping prices down 80%. This budget provides $230 million for
the Port Infrastructure Development Program to build upon this
important work.
There is a great deal of progress underway, and a great
deal yet to be done.
Together we are stewards of a transportation system that is
finally seeing renewal in its physical foundations but shows
real points of vulnerability that endanger communities and
workers--especially in the places where Federal oversight and
regulation have been undermined.
Congress in recent years has shown itself capable of
delivering a bipartisan infrastructure law that evaded our
predecessors for decades. Now we need that same bipartisan
strength to sustain those ongoing infrastructure investments--
and to make progress on safety regulations that protect
Americans driving, flying, walking, riding--and counting--on
that infrastructure.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
RAIL EMERGENCY RESPONSE
Senator Schatz. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Let me start with
the FRA. What is FRA doing to review the performance of wayside
detection technologies, railroad standards for an emergency
notification, and emergency response procedures?
Secretary Buttigieg. These wayside detection devices are
installed alongside tracks and they can provide advance warning
when there are issues that couldn't be detected by other means.
Not all derailments are caused by an issue in the rail.
Sometimes it is an issue on board. This is something that
historically has not been the subject of Federal regulation,
although we did put out a safety advisory in the wake of the
East Palestine case from FRA regarding this.
But we have seen them deployed by a number of railroads and
are interested in working with Congress, as well as examining
our existing authorities to create more regularity and
standardization about the use of these tools because we think
they can play an important role in preventing crashes and
derailments.
Senator Schatz. No, I think that is perfect. I think we are
going to have to get our lawyers together to figure out whether
you have all the authorities you need. And if so, then we will
push you to utilize those authorities to get some sort of
standardization.
But if you need statutory authority, I don't think this is
particularly controversial that each railroad should not have
their own boutique version of this. This is a safety question
and there should be standards across the industry. I just want
to talk to you about airport resiliency.
AIRPORT RESILIENCY
The short version of this is that lots of runways are going
to be facing coastal inundation. And so, this is not a climate
policy question, right. That is not the jurisdiction of this
committee. But to the extent that the sea level is rising, that
has impacts across the country in our airports. Do you have the
authority you need to help airports to respond to that?
And are you doing enough to encourage airports to
recognize, whatever your politics are about energy policy or
this or that or the Inflation Reduction Act, the very pragmatic
question in front of us is how do we prevent sea level rise
from damaging our airports?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, we are certainly doing all we
can with the authorities that we have. The FAA supports airport
sponsors that include resiliency in their master planning
effort. And those master plans are eligible for funding through
the Airport Improvement Program (AIP).
And we are certainly encouraging those airports, those
project sponsors, to work with their local district offices to
develop scope of analyses dealing with resiliency that may not
have been contemplated specifically in the past.
The 2023 enacted appropriation gave FAA the authority to
use supplemental funds specifically to address resiliency and
would welcome opportunities to work with Congress to continue
that kind of support, because I believe the need for attention
to resiliency affecting all of our infrastructure, certainly
affecting airports, is only going to grow each passing year.
Senator Schatz. Yes, I just want to point out, the model
here is the DOD, right. The DOD doesn't get to have an opinion
necessarily about climate action or whatever, but they have
bases and installations and they don't have the luxury of
pretending that there aren't some issues, especially with our
Navy bases.
TRIBAL ACCESS TO COMPETITIVE GRANTS
Moving on to some tribal issues, a real barrier for tribes
to access Federal competitive grants is the cost share
requirement. Would you support expanding the cost share waiver
proposed in the budget more broadly to FTA competitive programs
for tribes?
Secretary Buttigieg. Yes, we have this in the tribal
transit formula and competitive programs, but not other FTA
programs. And when I am meeting with tribal leaders and we are
traveling in Indian Country, we hear this refrain again and
again and again.
Sometimes 20 percent of those projects would not always
look like a large figure from a Washington perspective, but to
those tribes, it could be the difference between a project
happening and not happening, so we would love to work on that.
IMPAIRED DRIVING RULE
Senator Schatz. The IIJA requires NHTSA to finalize a rule
on impaired driving. Are we on time? Can you give me an update,
please?
Secretary Buttigieg. Yes. So, the National Highway Traffic
Safety Administration (NHTSA) will soon be posting an annual
report that is going to share more detailed information on the
rulemaking status, and I am going to defer to that report on
anticipated timelines.
But what I can tell you is that NHTSA is working very hard
to develop the advance notice of proposed rulemaking, including
on areas like the impaired driving detection technology, which
is novel and different from the kinds of things that they have
prescribed in the past, but that we recognize the urgency,
importance, and interest of, given its potential to prevent
crashes and fatalities.
BUY AMERICA
Senator Schatz. Final question. The President in his State
of the Union said, ``And when we do projects, we are going to
buy American.'' Buy American has been the law of the land since
1933, but for far too long, past Administrations have found a
way to get around it. Not anymore.
You are about to give out billions in Federal funds through
grants to many agencies. Do we have your commitment to comply
with buy America, which is statutory, but also with what the
President is saying about actually complying and not just
having every agency waive the statute?
Secretary Buttigieg. Yes. Not only has, as you noted, this
law has been on the books for a long time, but the President is
exceptionally, I would argue historically focused on making
sure that we buy America. And that is something you will see
throughout the Administration.
Senator Schatz. Thank you. Senator Hyde-Smith.
AVIATION SAFETY
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you know,
Mr. Secretary, there have been significant increases in near-
misses and runway incursions occurring all over the country.
And whether it is Texas, California, Massachusetts, or most
recently here in Washington, D.C., these incursions are not
subsiding and they are very alarming.
According to data we received from the FAA, in calendar
year 2022, there were 1,696 runway incursion incidents. And
since the beginning of this year, we have already had 266
runway incursions incidents.
Even with the significant investment Congress provided the
FAA in fiscal year 2023, we are still seeing very concerning
unacceptable numbers. And you yourself just recently expressed
your concerns about the FAA's lack of accountability for these
runway incursions at last week's safety summit.
But knowing that most of us here in the Senate, we fly on a
weekly basis and we certainly encounter our own flight mishaps,
from cancellations due to mechanical problems or crew staffing
problems. It just seems that it is just another reason to be
concerned about the safety of the traveling public.
Given this committee has been providing funds to address
runway incursions specifically for several years, why are
existing safety measures that have been previously used to
mitigate these incursions no longer--are no longer effective?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, I do want to emphasize the
effectiveness of our safety systems in terms of maintaining an
aviation system that is exceptionally safe, while recognizing
that we can't just rest on that without continually working to
raise the bar.
What I mean by that is that while it is an extraordinary
fact that in a typical year, the number of passengers losing
their lives in commercial aviation crashes is zero, we need to
be just as animated and just as energized about these near
misses.
Now, the runway incursion numbers that we pay the most
attention to are the severe ones. They are called category A or
B, and there is a definite increase in those types of
incidents. In past years, they have occurred at a rate of
roughly once per month. Right now, they are, this year,
occurring at a rate that is roughly double that. And of course,
the only number we want to see, again, is zero.
This is why the FAA convened the safety summit last week,
took a number of steps and is continuing to take steps,
including this week what is called a SAFO or a safety alert
going throughout the system to encourage a higher degree of
vigilance, while we are also looking at engineering solutions
that might make a difference.
We think that the uptick is partly related to the
exceptionally fast surge in demand and the swift return to the
skies, faster than even the most optimistic scenarios that we
heard a couple of years ago. We need to make sure, of course,
that as that system comes back to that high level of demand,
there is no negative safety impact to that.
We don't take for granted for a second the safety record of
U.S. aviation and will continue to be focused on maintaining
that. And that is reflected in the budget with our requested
funds for system modernization, also for increased staffing in
air traffic control so that there is less pressure on the
existing workforce. And we know that that demand is only going
to grow.
Senator Hyde-Smith. And so, you think that with the request
that you have in now, you think that that would help mitigate a
lot of this?
Secretary Buttigieg. Yes, I think that will keep us on
track for continuing to make the improvements that need to be
made. The FAA is rightly concerned with maintaining gains from
the past, yet not thinking that that is enough, or as I have
heard it put in memorably, viewing safety never as a
destination, that you get there and then you are satisfied, but
as a continual journey. These funds will help us to take
another fiscal year's worth of step on that journey.
SAFE DRIVER APPRENTICESHIP PROGRAM
Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. And one thing that I want to ask
you about, because it is really important. There is such a
driver shortage in the trucking industry. And last month, the
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration provided my staff
with the participation data for the Safe Driver Apprenticeship
Pilot Program, which I was really excited about because
hopefully we can meet the needs of this.
Boy, we have learned a lot after COVID with the supply
chains, but this three-year pilot program was included in the
infrastructure law and is based on the Drive Safe Act, and that
I co-sponsored last Congress.
Outside of this pilot, current law prevents 18- to 20-year-
old from operating a commercial motor vehicle in interstate
commerce. This means that a 20-year-old driver in Mississippi
is allowed to drive more than 350 miles from Gulfport,
Mississippi, to South Haven at the very Northern end of the
State but cannot drive the extra mile from South Haven to
Memphis, Tennessee, which is right there.
And obviously a great need right there. This makes little
practical and economic sense to me. But although the pilot
program is intended to accommodate up to 1,000 carriers and
3,000 enrolled apprentices at any given time, the initial
participation data is just alarmingly and underwhelming.
At the time of the presentation from the FMCSA, only 21
carriers had been approved for participation and four
apprentices were in the program. One, two, three, four. We
could take up to 3,000.
So, some in the trucking industry have indicated that
burdensome program requirements, which were not included in the
Drive Safe Act nor the infrastructure bill, are a major
deterrent to carrier participation.
For example, the Federal Motor Carrier Safety
Administration (FMCSA) requires participants to install inward
facing cameras on themselves in the vehicles, which invites
legitimate concerns about privacy. And if the participation
rate remains this low for it, it is unlikely that the pilot
will provide enough credible data to inform future policymaking
on this issue.
So, what are DOT and the FMCSA doing to improve
participation in the program and to ensure that requirements
hindering enrollment are removed? Because this is huge to
Mississippi. We need drivers.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, the FMCSA is hard at work
launching this pilot. We were able to take applications
beginning last summer. And as you noted, I think it is up to 22
motor carriers are approved.
We got another 22 that have been approved by FMCSA and are
just working through the process. So far, we agree, we would
like to see a higher level of participation.
So, some steps on that have included making information
available to 1,500 carriers who meet the safety requirements.
FMCSA did that some weeks ago. There is also a paid media
campaign that took place in February that we are hoping will
build interest. And we will continue using social media and
outreach to the high school graduating class of 2023 about this
program.
Any requirement that is in the program is for the purpose
of safety. And safety will always be our first priority. But we
are very interested in getting the level of participation that
will get us good data to see if we can continue in this
direction without compromising safety.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you. Because that that is a real
concern when I saw those numbers, that that is a really concern
there. Okay, I will save my questions for another round and
give somebody else an opportunity now.
Senator Schatz. Senator Coons.
AMTRAK FUNDING AND INFRASTRUCTURE
Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Schatz, Ranking Member
Hyde-Smith, Vice-Chair Collins. Welcome, Secretary Buttigieg.
Look forward to talking with you this morning. Let's start, if
we can, with rail.
Rail is a real concern for my community. We have one of the
busiest passenger rail stations in America named for our
President, but we also have very busy freight rail lines that
run up and down the backbone of the East Coast.
I appreciate your continued work to implement the
Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, which is benefiting the State of
every Senator. But we have to continue to provide robust
funding for DOT programs in order for us to actually achieve
the vision of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. On Amtrak,
America's passenger rail system, you are requesting a 20
percent increase over our fiscal year 2023 enacted levels.
In no area of transportation do I think your phrase in your
opening statement, decades of disinvestment, is it more real
than in our rail infrastructure, something that has been
tragically highlighted in recent weeks.
I will lead the letter endorsing Amtrak's $3.65 billion
request to ensure robust funding of the Northeast Corridor and
our national network. And as I have previously raised, Amtrak's
funding needs were not addressed by the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Act.
There was a significant and helpful down payment, but the
framing assumed steady annual appropriations. This is something
I rely on for my transportation to and from work, so it is
particularly personal to me. I know for 36 years, our President
also commuted by rail, as do millions of others across our
country.
How can we continue to support Amtrak and ensure the
Northeast Corridor is a reliable, safe means of transportation?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, Amtrak is a vitally important
economic asset to the entire country, certainly with regard to
the Northeast Corridor. And as you mentioned, our President
famously is enthusiastic and focused on this, as is the
Administration. Amtrak will be growing its workforce and will
have to in order to be able to make good on the opportunities
that are coming by way of the investments and implementing the
$22 billion in advance appropriations provided by the
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, while, as you noted,
requiring more resources for many of the things that I think
passengers, customers, and communities expect.
I know that they had, last time we checked in February,
nearly 20,000 workers. They have set a goal to hire almost
4,800 more in 2023.
So whether it is the physical infrastructure side, where we
as a Department are most likely and most often partnering with
them, whether it is the workforce growth that they need to
undertake, or a third area I would point to, that is important
in terms of the reliability of the system, less on the
Northeast Corridor, but overall, which is ensuring that the
legal requirement of the freight railroads to make way for
passengers is met.
I think all of these will continue to need sustained
attention, and we welcome opportunities to work with Congress
to make sure that the funding and the authorities align.
Senator Coons. Thank you. Delaware has long been a site of
significant Amtrak operations, both the Wilmington shops and
the Bear shops for repair and maintenance. We have the National
Operation Center, and DOT recently gave a railroading 101
program grant to our State Department of Labor, which--I am
sorry, the U.S. Department of Labor gave our State Department
of Transportation a grant to try and help grow future
railroading workforce.
As the ranking member noted in trucking, we have a real
challenge, but we also do in railroading, in order to take
advantage of construction, maintenance, and operations
opportunities. Let me also ask you about heavy trucks and
hydrogen. Senator Cornyn and I are co-sponsors, along with six
of our colleagues, bipartisan co-sponsors of the Hydrogen for
Trucks Act.
SUSTAINABLE TRANSPORTATION
It would accelerate the deployment of clean hydrogen to
decarbonize heavy duty transport. Fuel cell trucks have all the
benefits of diesel-powered trucks, but without the emissions.
But in the early stages of deployment of promising fuel cell
technologies, there is going to be a need to lower cost
barriers and to provide both gathering critical data so that
what is manufactured and deployed is demonstrably safe and
better understood, and to provide some incentives for early
adopters.
How is the Department thinking about supporting operators
interested in adding hydrogen fuel cell trucks to their fleets?
And do you think the kind of incentive program that is laid out
in my bipartisan bill with Senator Cornyn would be helpful to
accelerating adoption of these vehicles?
Secretary Buttigieg. We welcome the work that you and your
bipartisan colleagues are doing because it is another piece of
the puzzle of having more sustainable transportation for the
future. It is one thing for light duty vehicles, cars we all
own that we have existing on the street available technology
that is zero emissions.
The story is more complex for buses and I would add--for
trucks rather, but I would add buses to that. And in addition
to some of the tools we do have to work with, like the charging
and fuel infrastructure discretionary grant program we just put
out, and the FTA's work on the bus side, I would certainly be
interested in continuing to partner with you on expanding the
availability and the support for hydrogen, because we know, as
you look at the harder to decarbonize elements of our
transportation systems, surface for sure with the trucks and
buses, but also as we look ahead to the long term future of
aviation and shipping, there is no question that hydrogen will
be an important thing to consider.
Senator Coons. Well, we have a number of critical companies
doing cutting edge research and development and deployment in
hydrogen for transportation ad otherwise in Delaware, and some
great opportunities.
I recently had a chance to ride in a heavy-duty truck on I-
95 from Newark to Wilmington and was really struck at how far
along this technology is. Let me close by thanking you for the
$270 million investment in Federal Railroad Administration
(FRA) safety initiatives that is in the budget.
After the tragic derailment in East Palestine, we want to
work together with you and with the bipartisan group of my
colleagues who are proposing improvements in rail safety, and I
want to make sure that we stay engaged in this as a Congress.
Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary Buttigieg. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Schatz. Vice-Chair Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Before
I go to my questions, I want to welcome the new ranking member
of the subcommittee, Senator Hyde-Smith. She will be an
absolutely terrific partner for you.
And I can assure you, Senator that Chairman Schatz will
also be a great partner. I have been either the chair or
ranking member of the subcommittee for many, many years, and it
is great to know that it is in such good hands, and those
compliments do not count against my time.
[Laughter.]
Senator Schatz. Noted.
Senator Collins. Thank you.
Senator Schatz. Compliments never count against you.
[Laughter.]
INFRASTRUCTURE GRANT PROGRAMS FUNDING
Senator Collins. Mr. Secretary, welcome. The Administration
is proposing once again to zero out important programs like the
Bridge Formula Program. In fiscal year 2023, Congress provided
more than $1 billion in funding for the Bridge Formula Program,
which benefits many rural states, including my State of Maine.
As you know, this is a program that was created by this
very subcommittee, and it has been very effective in improving
and replacing our nation's deteriorating bridges. In addition,
as the ranking member has pointed out, the budget includes no
funding for the popular and effective RAISE Grant Program.
This program, too, has been essential to roadway bridge
replacement and port projects across the country, including in
my State of Maine. The budget request instead is shifting these
important programs to be funded solely by the bipartisan
infrastructure funding rather than complementing annual
appropriations.
I was one of the ten negotiators of the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Act, and I can unequivocally state that the
funding from that historic law was intended to be supplemental.
It was not intended to supplant the regular appropriations.
So, proposing to eliminate the annual appropriations not
only conflicts with clear Congressional intent, but also
dilutes the impact and limits to reach of the program. And I
must say, the Administration has been very quick to laud the
bipartisan infrastructure program to take credit for its role
in shaping it, but now it submitted a budget that dilutes its
impact. Can you explain to me why you are allowing for
supplanting the funding rather than following congressional
intent?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, let me first associate myself
with your remarks about the RAISE program, which is both
popular and highly effective. And in my travels in particular,
as I visit communities where we have been able to fund projects
through that program, you can see the effect that it has.
Likewise, we continue to enthusiastically pursue the
deployment of the funds that are available to us in the Bridge
Program and others that were contemplated both in the
Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act and could be subject to
future opportunities for appropriation as well.
Of course, it is challenging in any budget to make sure
that the top line conforms with the President's and the
public's and the Congress's expectations about fiscal
responsibility. We sought to strike that balance in the right
way, ensuring that there are additional funds for projects,
including in discretionary programs that we know are very
sought after across the country.
But you have my commitment that our Department will
continue, whether it was RAISE, the Bridge program, or others,
to make the absolute most of the funding that we have by way of
that advance appropriation, and continue the dialog about how
to make sure that needs are met, balanced, of course, with the
fiscal responsibility concerns that you all must balance in
your appropriating role.
NATIONAL SECURITY MULTI-MISSION VESSELS
Senator Collins. Let me bring up another issue. I met this
week with the State Maritime Academy Presidents to talk about
the state-of-the-art training vessels that we have been
appropriating. They are technically called the national
security multi-mission vessels. And this subcommittee worked
really hard to replace them in order of age.
We did one per year and we have now funded all five, with
the first being scheduled to be delivered later this year. And
yet, the President's budget does not include funding to
continue the support for the shoreside infrastructure
improvements at our nation's State maritime academies that are
necessary for berthing these newly constructed vessels.
And I don't understand that because we are not going to get
the benefits to the cadets, nor to the Merchant Marine, nor to
our military, nor to our nation in general, if the
Administration doesn't help fund the infrastructure required to
accommodate and operate these ships. Why did the Administration
slash this account? And I use the word slash advisedly.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, we are excited about what these
NSMVs and these are going to mean for the future of the
Merchant Marine, for the cadets, and for the country. We are
very much looking forward to construction and delivery
proceeding.
The President's budget for 2024 includes $19.2 million to
cover some unanticipated steel cost increases for one of the
vessels that continues funding for the program and also
flexibility for management of the fleet following the
construction and delivery of the vessels and through their life
cycle.
But there is, I think, going to have to be a continued
conversation about the responsibilities on the vessel itself
and then the shoreside resources. We provided notification last
month of our intent to obligate fiscal year 2022 funds for some
improvements that will be needed on the shoreside.
But I think we do need to continue that dialog with the
Maritime Academy so that there is a clear, predictable, and
responsible balance between what is provided by the United
States Maritime Administration (MARAD) and what is provided at
the academy level to make sure that there is appropriate
shoreside support.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have many more
questions, but I would ask to submit them for the record.
Senator Schatz. That is fine. And we are going to try to do
a second round if the time permits. Senator Van Hollen.
RECONNECTING COMMUNITIES
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you
for mentioning the terrible crash we had in Baltimore County at
I-695 yesterday. Mr. Secretary, thank you for acknowledging
that as well. Six people were killed in a construction worker
zone. I am pleased, Mr. Secretary, that the National
Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) is investigating that crash
and we all look forward to improving road safety to avoid these
terrible tragedies.
On a much happier note, I want to thank you and the
President for your work implementing the infrastructure
modernization bill. It was good to have you and the President
in Baltimore for the announcement of the $4 billion investment
to upgrade a 150-year-old tunnel and replace it with the new
Frederick Douglass Tunnel.
That is going to cut down on Amtrak train times between
Baltimore and D.C. by a huge amount and make it much more
efficient and safe for travelers. I was also very pleased that
the Department of Transportation awarded Baltimore City $2
million in a planning grant under the Reconnecting Communities
Program.
You and I, Mr. Secretary, have spoken about this project
many times. There was a gross injustice committed in the 1960s.
A highway was begun through West Baltimore, displacing over a
thousand homes, cutting right through an African American
community.
And then the highway was stopped, never completed, but the
scar remained. So, this is a very important project. And as you
know, the Reconnecting Communities Program was included in the
infrastructure bill, specifically with the Highway to Nowhere,
West Baltimore in mind.
That is why we worked to establish the program
legislatively and then inserted it into the infrastructure
bill. So first, I want to thank you and the Department. This is
obviously the first step in making sure that we reconnect that
community. Finally, I wanted to mention the red line in
Baltimore.
This was a major transit project in Baltimore City that had
been supported by the Maryland delegation for years. Our
immediately past Governor pulled the plug on that, even though
we had lined up the billion dollar funding to move forward with
the project.
Our new Governor, Wes Moore, is very interested in moving
forward, as is Mayor Scott. Senator Cardin and I included
language in the infrastructure bill just highlighting the
importance of this project and making clear that full
consideration should be given to previous projects that were
pretty much ready to go in the event they are resubmitted. So,
I just want to put that again on your radar screen.
TRANSIT WORKER SAFETY
My question relates to the Transit Worker Pedestrian
Protection Act. This is something I worked on, had legislation.
We also included it in the infrastructure bill. And the purpose
is to establish a safety committee made up of union
representatives and management representatives in transit
agencies in order to make sure that we deal with transit worker
safety and protection, and pedestrian protection.
This is a serious problem. Last week we had a hearing in
the Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs committee where we had
testimony from the President of Baltimore's ATU Local 1300. The
night before the hearing in the Banking committee, he had been
in a hospital in Baltimore visiting with a fellow transit
worker who had been stabbed twice on the job. So, it just
highlighted the urgency of implementing this program.
In Baltimore, things are moving ahead. As of last week, the
information we had was one-third of ATU's bargaining units
reported that management had not established the Joint Safety
Committee. As of this morning, apparently, we have made some
progress. There is still, however, dozens left, Mr. Secretary.
And according to ATU, they are being told in many cases by
local transit agencies that it is ATU's job to do this when
clearly it is FTA's responsibility to make sure that this
provision of law is implemented.
And the law also says that those transit agencies should
not be getting any grant funding for other programs until this
is done. So, I just ask for your commitment today to make sure
that we swiftly and fully implement that provision.
Secretary Buttigieg. Thanks. You have that commitment. We
have communicated to the agencies that they need to certify
that they have one of these committees stood up. If they don't,
that puts their access to Federal funding at risk. We need to
be doing everything we can to protect transit workers.
And let's make clear that it is completely unacceptable to
have any kind of assault, violence, threats, or intimidation
directed against these frontline workers. I have heard these
same themes in meeting with workers and their representatives.
This has the attention of the FTA Administrator, has my
attention as well.
And we will continue our focus on making sure that transit
agencies are doing everything they can, and that we are doing
everything we can.
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you,
Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Senator Kennedy.
Senator Kennedy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary.
How are your babies?
Secretary Buttigieg. Thank you for asking. They are doing
all right.
Senator Kennedy. As we were talking about earlier, my
father used to tell me, you will never know love until you have
a child.
Secretary Buttigieg. It is a different kind of love.
Senator Kennedy. It is a different kind of love.
Secretary Buttigieg. It is a wonderful thing.
RULEMAKING PROCESS
Senator Kennedy. I want to ask you a philosophical
question, Mr. Secretary. How do you and your team go about
deciding whether to promulgate a new rule? Let me give you an
example. Study after study has shown that the number of
teenagers you have in a car is directly proportional to their
chance of having a wreck.
And we have known this for years. I am not recommending
this rule because frankly I don't know how I would vote on it
if it came to us. But suppose one of your team members came to
you and said, look, if we promulgate a rule that you can't
have--if you have a teenage driver, you can't have more--any
other teenagers in the car with that teenage driver, how would
you go about analyzing that?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, in this type of case, it would
likely reflect the traditional division of labor that we have
had between the Federal Government and the states, in that the
Federal Government tends to regulate the design of a vehicle,
the design of the roads, and safety issues related to that
physical infrastructure in the physical vehicle. While State
DMVs and State laws tend to regulate the conduct of a driver.
So, the very thing you are mentioning, for example, I
think, is why in some states there is a gradual approach where
when you have your learner's permit, you can be behind the
wheel. But there are restrictions on who could be in the
vehicle with you for exactly that reason.
I know you are asking this philosophically, not in terms of
the particular policy that you are using as an illustration,
but to zoom out more generally, we would look as my answer up
to now, might indicate, at our authorities and our
responsibilities. We'd look at the data and where it leads us.
We look at what we think is likely to happen if we were to
promulgate a rule like that. And then of course, we would get a
lot of feedback. We would make sure that we have an
understanding of what the different stakeholders think is
important, information we might not be privy to.
Now, having said all of that, the truth is it is rarely the
case that we imagine a rule and go out into a universe as a
blank slate and find out what might happen around it. Usually
there has been dialog, debate, and data building up for years
that makes a potential rule rise higher on the list of a
Department that can only take so many regulatory steps at a
time.
And of course, it is also working to revise and
occasionally withdraw older rules that are still on the books.
But hopefully that gives you some sense of the approach that we
would take, and that we do take, when we are thinking about our
rulemaking authorities.
LIQUEFIED NATURAL GAS CENTER OF EXCELLENCE
Senator Kennedy. Okay. I want to get in one other question
while I have time. In the fiscal year 2021 in our
appropriations bill, we created, we meaning Congress, a
national center of excellence for liquefied natural gas safety.
And the statute, I will just quote it to you. It is short.
``In determining,'' this is what the statute says, ``in
determining the location of the center, the Secretary shall''
not may but shall ``locate the center in the State with the
largest Liquefied natural gas (LNG) production capacity as
determined by the total capacity and billion cubic feet per day
of LNG production authorized by the Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission under Section 3 of the Natural Gas Act as of the
date of enactment of this Act.''
That is Louisiana. Louisiana has a production capacity of
21.2 billion cubic feet a day. Your Pipeline and Hazardous
Materials Safety Administration doesn't seem to want to locate
the center in our State, my State. Can you tell me why, if you
know.
Secretary Buttigieg. I will have to consult with the
Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration to
understand the latest on that center of excellence. But I can
certainly tell you that we, of course, ensure any choice we
make is conforming with statute. And so, I want to make sure
that whatever is underway is consistent with the law as
written.
Senator Kennedy. If you would look at it. I know you have a
lot of things on your plate, but the law is pretty clear. And
personal preference is not supposed to enter into this, and I
think my State is clearly number one in production capacity.
And I have noticed a determined reluctance by some of your
agency folks to make this decision and put it in my State. Now,
I would much rather just tell them have them be upfront and
tell me why.
Secretary Buttigieg. I will make sure to find out.
[The information follows:]
PHMSA is making immense progress in establishing a Liquefied
Natural Gas (LNG) Center of Excellence in accordance with the
legislation, and PHMSA agrees with your interpretation of the
calculation as outlined in the statute.
On April 28, 2023, PHMSA personnel met with your staff to provide
an update on the agency's activities related to establishing and
determining a location for the Center. The agency continues to evaluate
suitable sites in Louisiana, including existing Federal buildings,
universities, and private facilities. PHMSA is also reaching out to
other Federal agencies with a stake in LNG facility operations and
safety, including the Department of Energy, Federal Energy Regulatory
Commission, and U.S. Coast Guard, to query their interests in
collaborating with DOT regarding the Center's establishment, and/or
maintaining a continued presence throughout the life of the Center.
Additionally, PHMSA will host an ``LNG Center of Excellence
Webinar'' on May 17, 2023, to share information with stakeholders on
the purpose of the Center, activities completed to date, and provide
instruction on how to submit comments to inform decisions on the
Center's establishment and future direction.
Senator Kennedy. Thank you.
Secretary Buttigieg. Thanks, Senator.
Senator Schatz. Chair Murray.
Senator Murray. Well, thank you very much, Chair Schatz and
Ranking Member Hyde-Smith. I look forward to working with you
and Vice Chair Collins and all the members of this subcommittee
as we return to regular order and work to find common ground to
build a strong, competitive economy for families across our
country.
Today's hearing is really an important opportunity to
assess what resources that is going to require, and it does
come amid some very stark reminders that keeping our country
strong means keeping our infrastructure strong. We all know
about the recent train derailment and spill in East Palestine,
Ohio.
There was also one last week in the Swinomish Tribal
Reservation in my home State of Washington, and we have seen
some disturbingly close calls in air travel lately. So, as we
are writing the funding bills for this year ahead, we
absolutely have to remember that keeping our families safe and
our nation competitive is, of course, about defense spending,
but it is also important to remind ourselves that safety and
our families' safety is dependent on non-defense spending as
well.
And when it comes to protecting our families, we have to
make sure that our people and our goods get safely and
efficiently from point A to point B, and when it comes to
keeping our economy competitive, we can't compete with China
without well-run ports who ship American goods out to the
world.
And I am proud to say my home State of Washington has some
of the best. We know we can't compete without strong public
transportation networks that connect our communities and are
accessible to everybody, and strengthen our local economies,
and get people to work and school and more.
And of course, we can't compete when it comes to clean
energy and reducing emissions without investing in green
transportation. So, this bipartisan infrastructure law that we
passed laid a really good, strong foundation for an
infrastructure decade.
And now we have to build on that to make sure that we can
compete the projects--complete the projects in our communities
that are so badly needed, like the I-5 bridge project in
Southwest Washington you are well aware of or expanding Sound
Transit's light rail system. So, I look forward to hearing more
from Secretary Buttigieg about why projects like this are
important and what we need to keep that momentum going.
HAZARDOUS MATERIALS SAFETY
But I wanted to ask you today about the recent derailments
in Ohio and in my State, and how they really demonstrate some
significant vulnerabilities in our nation's rail system. We
have been here before with crude oil incidents, and I worked
with the Administration then through this subcommittee
actually, to require comprehensive oil spill response plans and
funding to improve safety practices and training for our short
line and regional railroads.
Secretary, there are just a few examples of steps we took
to increase safety around crude oil. Could you expand those
efforts now for other hazardous materials?
Secretary Buttigieg. Thank you for your attention to this
issue and for the question. The short answer is yes. Often what
happens is that America learns from an experience of disaster,
and I know that your work and others on this committee was part
of responding to some horrific crashes, derailments, and
incidents that took place in the early 2000s that led to things
like the creation of the category of the high hazard flammable
unit train.
And while that was, I think, a successful response to that
type of tragedy, questions arose in the wake of East Palestine
from people who asked a very reasonable question, looking at
that horrific smoke column and fireball coming out of the vinyl
chloride controlled burn, that if this train did not meet the
legal or technical definition of a high hazard flammable train,
what would?
And so I think this is compelling us to revise and review
both the high-hazard flammable unit train (HHFUT) definitions
in particular, and then more broadly, the authorities and the
definitions that we are working with, some of which are in
statute, and we welcome the legislation on a bipartisan basis
that is emerging in this chamber to do some things that we
think are important from stiffer fines for safety violations,
to specific concrete technical measures that could make a
difference. We are also acting with the authorities that we do
have.
Recent safety advisories on valve caps for tank cars are
just one example. And are calling on industry not to wait for
us to require of them to do the right thing on their end. And
with regard to your question here, I would point to the
importance of early notification for communities when hazardous
material is passing through them.
That is still not as rigorous as we believe it ought to be.
But legislation would raise the bar on that, but I don't think
that industry should wait for legislation, we certainly won't,
to view that as the right thing to do.
RAIL SAFETY
Senator Murray. Yes. Well, I know this budget was prepared
before those derailments, but can you talk a little bit how you
are using existing resources to increase rail safety and maybe
what is in this budget that will help you with that?
Secretary Buttigieg. Yes, well, the budget was proposed
before the East Palestine tragedy or crash took place. It
already reflects a number of steps that we have been wanting to
take or expand, including growing FRA's capacity with regard to
railroad safety. And I would divide that into a couple of
relevant categories. One has to do with enforcement and
compliance, but in another, research.
So, for example, the wayside detection devices that could
have played a role here are something that have been developed
partly through collaboration with the FRA, and obviously we
need to continue looking at how that technology could help to
prevent future derailments and crashes.
So, it is certainly reflected here in the budget,
increasing the agency's railroad safety personnel, expanding
inspection and audit capabilities, enhancing data analysis that
will help us identify root causes, and better interpret the
NTSB data that comes as they do their independent work, and
increasing the stakeholder outreach and partnerships.
And just to give you one example of what is in the budget,
there is $17 million for the automated track inspection program
and $4.5 million to support efforts to expand the confidential
close call reporting system, which we think is important.
And of course, we will continue evaluating what else could
make a difference as we look to the future.
Senator Murray. Well, thank you very much. And I will
submit my remaining questions for the record, but really
appreciate your being here. And again, look forward to working
with you as we put this bill together.
Senator Schatz. Thanks very much, Chair Murray. Senator
Capito.
Senator Capito. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member.
And thank you for having the initial hearing. And it is good to
see you again, Mr. Secretary. If this had been last year, you
and I went round and round over the Federal Highways memorandum
of guidance in terms of where dollars should be spent.
And we had a disagreement, but I am glad to see you saw the
light and pulled the memo down because it was causing a lot of
angst in terms of our State DOTs being able to move forward.
So, I also want to thank you. Shailen Bhatt has been very
conversing with us and many other members here in the Senate,
and I am glad to see we have a permanent person in there, now a
confirmed person.
GRANTS MANAGEMENT PROCESS
So, he is doing a good job. But I am hearing that some of
the project grant agreements across--are taking increasingly
longer to complete. These types of delays can obviously cause
project costs, delay much, and you know the time's ticking on
the infrastructure bill. I am also told that the grant debriefs
for people that don't get granted, that are offered by the
Department are becoming less and less helpful.
So historically, these have been able to equip our
applicants to be able to reapply in the following years to have
a much more successful and impactful application. So, I would
hope that, I am concerned about just the delays and then these
debriefs.
I want to bring them to your attention because they are
being brought to my attention and ask that you would identify
additional ways that we can move these projects quicker, and
also that we can help with the debriefs to make sure they are
as substantive as they can be.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, thanks. The goal of compressing
the timeline between an award announcement and a grant
agreement is one that I enthusiastically share. There are a
number of steps, of course, that have to happen and it is
taxpayer money, but we have got to find ways to streamline that
process without losing any of the fidelity to the reasons why
it is there.
And that is something that we take very seriously, because
we want to get not just the projects identified, but, of
course, to get them built. Now, some steps that we have already
taken to try to ease that include steps to reduce the number of
independent processes and consolidate them, and to work with
project sponsors as they are getting through NEPA, for example.
We will often have a project that has not yet finalized its
National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA) process, but already
identified for funding. We need to make sure--or sometimes they
don't even have the engineering, the final design work done.
And that can be necessary to sign a grant agreement. So, we
are going to do everything we can on our end. But we also want
to work with project sponsors to help them do what they have to
on their end, recognizing that even if it is a requirement that
they must meet, we are not going to sit back and just say, you
are on your own, good luck meeting those requirements. We
really want to partner with them to get that done.
Likewise, with the debriefs that is something that I
consider very important for unsuccessful project applicants who
often turn into successful applicants later on. Would love
offline to get more information about some of the specific
feedback you are getting, so that we can examine that and make
sure the process is useful.
Senator Capito. Right. Okay. So, it seems that it is--
while the desire may be to shorten, it seems as though the
desire is not quite being met because it is becoming
increasingly long.
ONE FEDERAL DECISION
So, let's talk about One Federal Decision that is in the
IIJA. We are looking at this hopefully in a permitting and
energy and other projects. Again, concerns as to whether you
are adhering to one Federal decision, whether it is working the
way it is supposed to, because this is supposed to be--
shortening the timelines is supposed to be more efficient.
It is not skirting any environmental regulations at all.
And I don't know, I have frustrations on it and I don't want to
recommend it in a permitting bill. If we can't, you are sort of
the test case here and coming up a bit short. So, could you
speak to one Federal decision?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, we are certainly working to
implement one Federal decision.
Senator Capito. But that has been years, right? That has
been years, even before you got there.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, I know that there was the rule
version. Now, there is the legislatively mandated version. We
were able to act within days to get that first provision out
around the categorical exclusions.
We are tracking toward those averages that are called for
by those provisions in the law, and also trying to make sure
there is more transparency and clarity with our permitting
processes, including the Federal Permitting Dashboard and the
interagency organizations that have been set up to try to make
sure that there is clear information and as smooth a process as
can be.
Again, I think part of what is at play here is that it is
not only the things that we are doing as an agency, and there
are many, but also how we can make sure the project sponsors
are able to do what has to happen on their end, especially when
you are working with newer or smaller communities that may be
new to receiving Federal funds, but that should be no barrier
to them succeeding and delivering these projects. And that is
important to us.
Senator Capito. Yes, it is pretty discouraging when you
talk to a Federal agency who can't get-- and I am not saying
this is DOT, these are different agencies, but they are
projects that are infrastructure development, roads, water
projects, and the two agencies aren't even talking.
You know, where you have to get permits from both of them,
say, Fish and Wildlife, Corps of Engineers, EPA. That is the
whole point of one Federal decision, is to pull those in and
have somebody.
But I still think there is too much disconnect between
these Federal agencies. And I am not even talking about how
they interplay with the State ones or even the private
developers, because that is an issue as well.
The least we could do is have our Federal agencies
interacting and talking with one another to speed the projects.
So, thank you for working on that. Thank you. Thank you, Madam
Chair.
Senator Schatz. Senator Reed.
WIND ENERGY
Senator Reed. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
Mr. Secretary, for joining us today. As you probably know,
Rhode Island is the leader in offshore wind energy in the
country, and there are several programs that DOT has port
infrastructure grant programs, the small shipyard program,
RAISE grants.
Are you, or how are you structuring or restructuring these
programs to help accelerate wind energy throughout the country?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, wind energy represents a use
case that really is newer than some of these programs
themselves, at least at the kind of scale that is being
supported by facilities and proposed facilities in Rhode Island
and elsewhere.
Certainly, wind related projects have been competing well
in the Port Infrastructure Development Program, and we have
seen how RAISE and other potentially other sources of funding
can be relevant here as well. What we know is that there is
rising demand and enormous opportunity.
And part of what I think will be important for us going
forward is to make sure that our processes reflect not just the
traditional metrics that we use on a transportation basis, but
the bigger macroeconomic picture of knowing that if we have the
right kind of port facilities, we are supporting a
manufacturing base that is onshore here in the U.S. that can
create some of this equipment.
And we recognize the opportunity and the obligation to
support that economic strength with the particular projects
that are coming along for consideration.
TRANSIT ELECTRIFICATION
Senator Reed. Well, we are, as you know, because of our
leadership, doing exactly that, trying to develop manufacturing
and assembly in our ports and these systems of DOT would be
helpful. Also, we are trying to electrify our transit system.
We have a statewide system. I think we might be unique in the
country.
And likely will be the first will have a totally electric
transit system. But supply chain problems, other issues are
cropping up. How can you help us get to that electrified system
or hydrogen or hybrid or other non-petroleum products?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, we are aware of this interest
from the Rhode Island Department and from Massachusetts Bay
Transportation Authority (MBTA), and that could make for better
commutes and certainly make for cleaner air as well. I want to
take care to note that many of the key early decisions are
local and we respect that.
But we will certainly say that if there is that local
commitment coming together in a path forward and if the project
sponsors are interested in pursuing Federal funding through our
Capital Investment Grants Program under the FTA, I would
certainly be happy to take a look and to provide technical
assistance as they develop that.
Senator Reed. Thank you. Just a final point. Quonset State
Airport is very critical both to commercial travel and our
National Guard. We have a C-130J squadron there. It is
absolutely not only critical to the State but to the nation,
and we have been trying to expand that. We have run into some
problems.
So, I would ask your commitment to take a look at the
project at Quonset and see if the Department of Transportation
could provide any type of assistance to help us get over recent
complications.
Secretary Buttigieg. We will make sure to do that.
Senator Reed. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Senator Hyde-Smith.
CONTRACT TOWERS
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do have a
couple of more questions. Mr. Secretary, I am a strong
proponent of the FAA contract tower program, and it just helps
enhance aviation safety at seven small airports in Mississippi
and around the country.
However, I have heard concerns that some contract towers
lack the same type of equipment as the FAA staffed towers,
which is so much has been focused on our conversations of
aviation safety and near misses.
It seems to me that the controllers at contract tower
airports should have access to the same radar displays and
other equipment to increase their situational awareness,
especially as operations continue to rise.
Can you please tell me what steps the FAA is taking to
ensure contract towers are properly equipped?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, first, let me make clear that
the FAA is committed to the contract tower program. We know the
difference that it can make at a lot of facilities and
communities. And I should note that the funding request in the
President's budget ensures that these Federal contract towers
will have the staffing that is necessary to meet their safety
mission.
And for FAA owned facilities, that also goes to equipment
needs. Now, there are a number of towers in the program that
have expressed interest in additional or different forms of
equipment.
There is currently not a non-Federal system for these
towers, but we are actively exploring ways to best meet their
needs, recognizing that there is a different set up and a
distinct mission that these Federal contract towers meet, but
wanting to make sure they have everything that is required in
order for them to meet that mission.
RAIL SAFETY
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you for that. And I want to talk
a little bit about detectors with the train derailments in the
East Palestine, Ohio. There has been a renewed focus on rail
safety, obviously, but specifically on the wayside and hot box
detectors on train routes. And as you know, trains use these
detectors to notify the railroad when there is a problem so it
can be addressed.
It is my understanding the tracks in East Palestine
actually had these detectors. But while mandating this
technology may seem like a good idea now, this technology has
existed for decades, and I am just concerned that mandating
just this technology would lock the railroads into using
outdated technology.
So new technologies are already being tested, such as
onboard detectors that would monitor each train car from a
centralized location. But can you tell me how the
Administration's budget request is keeping pace with the
railroads in terms of safety, innovation, and technology using
this specific?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, the budget request supports FRA
building the team that is needed for everything from inspectors
to research and development.
And I should note, of course, that our work also supports,
with the funding that has come from Congress, supports the
physical infrastructure improvements that have benefited rail
safety through things like our Consolidated Rail Infrastructure
and Safety Improvements (CRISI) program, and our Railroad
Crossing Elimination Program.
But specifically with regard to the wayside detection
technologies, there are two categories of them, and one is
those that can detect a developing fault in a rolling stock.
That is where you have these so-called hot box detectors that,
for example, can note a difference in temperature in a bearing
or an axle that could be an indication of a fault. And then
others that are effectively sounding an alarm, identifying a
condition that requires immediate attention and actions.
I don't want to get ahead of the NTSB's findings, which
will, when the final report comes out, which may take a year or
more, probably have a higher level of detail. But I will say,
broadly speaking, our view is that we need more and not less
rigorous standards for railroad safety.
And that may include technologies, including wayside
detection devices. It can also include approaches like the
added requirements that attach to a high hazard flammable unit
train, and just better enforcement capability so that we can
make sure railroads are accountable for their compliance.
Right now, a multibillion-dollar railroad might face just a
six figure fine, even if found responsible for an egregious
violation that resulted in loss of life. And we just don't
believe that's enough to get their attention. And it is one of
the measures in the proposed bipartisan legislation here in the
Senate that we embrace, which is that it would add teeth to
those enforcement powers.
So whether it is specifically with regard to wayside
detection systems or more broadly in terms of the research, the
enforcement, and the infrastructure improvements that are being
made, I believe this budget will help us prepare for that, but
also recognize that this is going to be a journey that has to
be refreshed and renewed every single year as we learn more
from conditions on the ground.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you very much.
Senator Schatz. Senator Moran.
Senator Moran. Mr. Chairman, thank you, and the Ranking
Member. Thank you, I am pleased to have the opportunity to work
with the two of you and others on this subcommittee in my debut
appearance at T-HUD.
Mr. Secretary, welcome. Thank you for the series of
telephone conversations we have had in the last few weeks, and
I appreciate your presence in front of the committee today. I
would follow up on what the ranking member had to say about the
Drive Safe Act.
It was a piece of legislation that I introduced with a
number of my colleagues. She indicated the lack of use of that
program to date. I was glad to hear you indicate you are
pursuing changes, improvements, alterations in the program to
make sure that we actually get a lot of young drivers into this
profession.
HAIR TESTING
And so, I would just reiterate my support. Thank you for
yours. And if we can be of help in trying to accomplish the
goals that we mutually share, please put me to work. I am
surprised, or disappointed that I am once again talking about
hair follicle testing, which has been a topic of conversation
since the FAST Act of 2015 was passed.
Alternative drug testing for truck drivers, the 2015 Fast
Act required HHS to issue scientific and technical guidelines,
HHS, for hair testing as a method of truck driving testing
program with 1 year of its enactment.
Mr. Secretary, I wonder if you had any update on
conversations between FMCSA and HHS, anything that is
progressing or moving this opportunity along?
Secretary Buttigieg. Let me get an update for you on that,
Senator. As you note, there is a dependency between our
authorities in FMCSA, and a finding that would have to come
from HHS. And we stand ready to work on that as that finding
comes through, but I will make sure to determine the latest
state of play there and update you accordingly.
[The information follows:]
The Department of Transportation continues to monitor HHS' work in
implementing Section 5402(b) of the FAST Act concerning hair testing as
a method of detecting the use of a controlled substance. HHS issued
proposed Mandatory Guidelines for Federal Workplace Drug Testing Using
Hair (HMG) in 2020 (85 FR 56108 (September 10, 2020)). The Fall 2022
issue of the Unified Agenda of Regulatory and Deregulatory Actions
(https://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/
eAgendaViewRule?pubId=202210&RIN=0930-AA33) indicated a Final Rule
would be used in December 2022. However, the final rule has not been
issued to date.
FMCSA leadership met with HHS leadership responsible for issuing
HMG in February and March of 2023. While HHS' timeline has yet to be
publicly shared, HHS advised that efforts are currently underway to
progress further toward finalizing hair testing guidelines for Federal
Workplace Drug Testing Programs. We defer to HHS to provide an updated
schedule for issuing the final HMG.
CRISI PROGRAM
Senator Moran. Thank you. Thank you for letting me bring
that to your attention. Secretary, the short line freight
industry is critical to communities across Kansas and across
the country.
A lot of economic needs. Rail is important to me in Kansas
for a number of reasons, but one of them is how we help
agriculture commodities from where it has grown to where it is
exported or consumed or further refined.
The CRISI program has been invaluable in helping address an
estimated $12 billion in investments that is needed to ensure
that the industry can modernize and meet the needs of the
country. Any opportunity that you would like to take now to
discuss your commitment to the CRISI program?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, we begin by saying we are
committed to the CRISI program. We recognize its importance in
both the economic and the safety responsibilities that we have
when it comes to rail infrastructure.
And I would note that among the $1.4 billion requested for
FRA's discretionary programs reflected in the President's
budget, there is a $510 million identified for CRISI Grants,
which when you add that to the $1 billion in advance
appropriations that came through IIJA would represent a total
of over $1.5 billion for the coming fiscal year.
And as you note, that program can support the safety, the
reliability, the efficiency of these railroads that are so
important in every part of the country. We have seen the
impact, the results, and the enthusiasm in local communities
for what those represent.
Passenger rail can even benefit from that when it improves
rail that is used by Amtrak and hosted and owned by the freight
railroads. And you will see us continuing to move full steam
ahead on the use and the deployment of these funds.
Senator Moran. Thank you. And that has been one of the--I
hadn't thought of it until you said it, and I highlight it that
it is one of the ways that we have been able to improve Amtrak
service through our State, is through CRISI Grants.
ADVANCED AIR MOBILITY
My final question, Chairman, is the continued development
of advanced air mobility I think is hugely important. The AAM
Coordination and Leadership Act, which is another--one of the
pieces of legislation that I have introduced, it became law. I
introduced it with Senator Sinema.
It establishes a working group led by DOT to advance this
emerging technology. It was signed into law last year. Is the
Department fully engaged to ensure that the success of this
working group will occur, with its particular focus on mobility
for passenger carrying aircraft that we intended in that
legislation?
And I would ask that in addition to that question, I would
also ask for your commitment that you and the Department would
provide me with updates throughout the process of this
committee doing its work.
Secretary Buttigieg. We will make sure to do that. And we
recognize the enormous promise of advanced air mobility and
that it creates a number of novel questions and challenges that
are different in kind than what the FAA and the Administration
are used to managing.
So the committee, the process that you referenced, and the
agenda of the FAA more broadly to prepare the airspace for this
is high on our minds and we will continue pursuing it in ways
that meet our safety mission while also being compatible with
the competitive and prompt development of these new
technologies so that America is a leader, as we are accustomed
to being, in aviation writ large.
Senator Moran. A prompt, Mr. Secretary, is my goal in
raising this topic. We face a competitive world and we want the
United States to be the leader in this emerging technology.
Secretary Buttigieg. Agreed. Thank you.
Senator Moran. Thank you.
Senator Schatz. Senator Boozman.
TRUCK PARKING CAPACITY
Senator Boozman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you for
being here today and testifying. I know you have got a lot
going on. I have really just got a couple questions that I
think are important. Nearly 87 percent of Arkansas communities
depend exclusively on trucks to move their goods.
Since the vast majority of my constituents rely on, and
this is true of so many other areas throughout the country,
efficient trucking operations, I am really interested in the
Department of Transportation's long-term plan to build our
truck parking capacity.
We have heard repeatedly from representatives of the
trucking industry that the nationwide shortage of truck parking
capacity is a key driver of supply chain inefficiency. In fact,
for every 11 drivers, there is only one truck parking space.
So, Mr. Secretary, would the establishment of a competitive
grant program for truck parking projects better equip DOT and
the states to address the long-standing challenge? And if so,
or if not, how can we help you accomplish, you know, something
that really is a major problem now and is probably only going
to get worse in the future?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, I completely agree with the
importance of this issue. When you talk with truck drivers, it
is one of the first things that they will raise. And it is not
just a matter of convenience, it is really a matter of safety.
It means that as a driver is on their route, they see that
they are getting close to the limit of their hours of service.
They are faced with a choice to either stop short and lose
income, if there is even a space near them, or to park in a
place that could be unsafe.
Senator Boozman. And I don't mean to interrupt, but I am
told that literally drivers will drive around for an hour, hour
and a half, you know, trying to find a spot before their hours
run out so that they will stay, you know, stay within the right
the timeframe.
Secretary Buttigieg. That is right, or face being compelled
to park on those ramps, which is not safe for them or for other
drivers. So, in terms of a dedicated program, we would welcome
a dialog on that. I do want to make sure in the meantime, you
are aware that we are using the funding we do have for these
purposes.
We were able, through our Infrastructure for Rebuilding
America (INFRA) discretionary programs, I believe INFRA but I
will double check--to fund both Florida and Tennessee working
on projects to do just this, to add truck parking spaces. And I
would add there is some interesting technologies developing
that can help drivers know in real time where some of those
spaces might be available to avoid just that scenario that you
are describing of circling around, which benefits no one.
So, we will continue to consider this a valid use in any
discretionary program where it is permitted under statute.
Secondly, we have taken steps to urge State DOTs to recognize
that this is often an eligible use of their Federal-aid Highway
Formula Funds. We would love to see more of those funds going
to that purpose.
But third, if there is an opportunity to investigate
dedicated programming, I certainly recognize that that would
meet a need.
Senator Boozman. Well, we would really like to work with
you, and I think I can speak for the committee in the sense
that this is, you know, such an important area, you know, to go
forward and help you with the projects that you have got going
now, but also try and figure out a future way to perhaps, you
know, help alleviate this.
Secretary Buttigieg. Likewise.
AIR TRAFFIC INVESTMENT
Senator Boozman. The other thing is the Appropriations
committee has been diligent over the past several years in
funding the FAA air traffic organization at or near the
requested levels in the President's budget.
With that said, I have heard a lot of aviation stakeholders
mention the funding is simply not enough to meet the air
traffic goals. And I note that your budget request includes a
$1.4 billion increase for FAA, with most of that directed
towards air traffic. Can you explain where the increased
funding will be directed if Congress funds the air traffic
request and the need for that?
Secretary Buttigieg. Certainly. We see more pressure than
ever on the national aviation system. Some of that comes from--
by way of economic good news, which is the increased demand and
interest in flight. But we have to make sure the systems are
keeping pace. And even if it weren't for that surge, there are
ongoing needs that we need to make sure that the FAA can meet.
So, part of what you are seeing in the increase is an $800
million increase for the operation sides. That includes air
traffic control hiring and training. You know, we had 1,500
controllers hired in fiscal year 2023 and we will need the
funding to continue training them and then project another
1,800 for fiscal year 2024.
And even allowing for attrition, that represents an
expansion in workforce, which I think is very much needed right
now. There is also funding for the sustainment of the national
airspace system.
That is for software maintenance programs and
telecommunication systems, and trying to reduce the risk of
system outages. And then a number of other proposals that are
really about getting ready for the future or addressing
requirements of the Aircraft Certification Reform Act.
Now, there is also a $600 million increase in the
facilities and equipment side. And I want to point in
particular to $115 million for modernization, which would allow
us to move forward faster on things like the NOTAMS
modernization that started in 2019. And phase 1 is set to be
done in 2025.
Obviously, we are very interested in how to accelerate
that, as well as the telecommunications infrastructure, which
is running on technology that telecom operators tell us they
will not support indefinitely, and so we really need to make
that change from time-division multiplexing (TDM) to Internet
protocol technology.
Just to give you a flavor of some of the steps. Last thing
I would point to is research and development, which is an
important area always for FAA. And of course, this sits
alongside the airport improvement program funds on FAA's books,
which allow us to benefit airports of all sizes across the
country.
Senator Boozman. Right. Well, thank you, Mr. Secretary.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Senator Manchin.
Senator Manchin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. I
appreciate it very much. First of all, I want to say I think,
Mr. Secretary, Senator Hyde-Smith mentioned this about rural
areas and the funding, and the RAISE, INFRA, rural, and Mega
grant programs. So, the only thing I want to say that we have
been trying to, and I am trying to get this, and all of us come
from rural states.
20 percent of the population of America lives in rural
America, it is about 66 million people. And I guarantee you, we
get less than single digits when all the funding comes from
Federal. I don't think it is directed or intentionally. It just
happens because there is so much scale of economies in larger
areas.
But we are trying to make sure--so in a situation such as
this, the $5.2 billion, $1 billion of that should have been
designated for rural areas to get as per appropriate share. And
I think if you look, it didn't happen that way.
Various large cities got most of it. But I want to bring
that to your attention because we are trying to pass an overall
piece of sweeping legislation that says the 20 percent. So,
anything you can do to maybe bring your staff up to speed on
looking at that when we disburse moneys out into rural areas
would be very, very helpful.
ALTERNATIVE FUELS
On the funding for alternative fuel, refueling stations,
what we are concerned about there, there is more than just EV
charging stations that we are concerned about. I am concerned
about the horsepower that it takes to run the big trucks, that
runs the things that we need, and that is going to be hydrogen
as we transition.
And I hope that you are looking at that as aggressively as
you are the EVs, that that we are moving very rapidly in, and
that is going to be needed for us to meet the demands because
EVs will not carry the trucks and the heavy loads that we need,
and also on our trains and things of that sort. And I don't
know if you all have looked at it differently than that.
Secretary Buttigieg. Sure. Yes, we share your interest in
hydrogen. One thing I would note is that while the National
Electric Vehicle Infrastructure (NEVI) program with the states
is focused on EV infrastructure, the $2.5 billion Charging and
Fueling Infrastructure Program includes hydrogen as an eligible
use.
Senator Manchin. I think you are going to have to push that
yourself a little bit, sir, take the lead on that because if
not, it might lag behind because of the overanxious desire to
get EVs out the door quicker than----
Secretary Buttigieg. We certainly recognize for trucks.
Also, I would note for buses, there is a lot of interest.
Senator Manchin. Yes, you know, this technology goes back
to the 90s. We had a hydrogen fueling station in West Virginia
back in the 90s, but then it didn't get the support it needed
so it went nowhere. We never matured that industry. We are
determined to get it done this time.
RAIL SAFETY
If I could go to the rail situation, we had a disaster in
2015, but up until that we have had the electronic control
pneumatic brakes. And I think you and I talked about it
briefly. That was started back 9 years, started in 2006. They
have gone through all the testing and everything, and by 2015,
we thought we had it. Then we had the wreck in West Virginia
and now then it was kind of put on the sidelines for the 2016,
2020 period. So, the only thing I would say, the technology
exists.
It has been successfully field tested. And we think that it
would have been very helpful in preventing some of these
horrific train accidents. So, the only think I would like for
you all, and hopefully you would commit to have the Federal
Railroad Administration to revisit the electronically
controlled pneumatic brakes (ECP) brakeS system.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, thank you for that, and we are
interested in the ECP brake opportunities. As you know, the
FAST Act constrains us to some extent in our ability to apply
it, but I have directed our team to look at everything we can
do within those constraints, and also would welcome partnering
with Congress to loosen those constraints.
I will note now that positive train control (PTC) is fully
deployed, there would need to be some steps to make sure that
we get the right compatibility between PTC and ECP. But I
certainly continue to view this as a potentially--very
important.
AIR PILOT WORKFORCE
Senator Manchin. If you keep us up to speed basically on
the technology and what changes have been made and if they are
adaptable, would be very helpful, and then hopefully we can
speed that. Pilot shortage, okay. Especially we are affected
more in rural areas than most because when there is a pilot
shortage, we are the first routes that get cut because of
economics.
As a pilot myself, and I am way above the 67 age, we are
still able to fly. We can still make pretty good decisions,
keep our lives, if you will and those of entrusted in--I don't
know, I would hope that you all would consider the 65 to 67 age
increasement. It would be very helpful for us to meet the
challenges we have all over America, especially in rural
America.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, as you know, that is set
statutorily and it conforms to the International Civil Aviation
Organization (ICAO) level of 65. And so, any variance from that
could create international issues, but always looking primarily
to the data and would want to see any kind of data that could
inform any measure related to the future pilot workforce.
We can't and won't do anything that could compromise safety
but are interested in anything and everything that we could do
that meets that test, including encouraging and helping more
people get started.
Senator Manchin. We have a bill with Senator Graham that we
think may help you a little bit, so we are going to try to
pursue that one and hopefully you will take a good look at it
and see what you think.
PIPELINE SAFETY
Finally, hold on--we have one here on hydrogen. What has
been included in the Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety
Administration spending plan to address--and my concerns about
the safety and blending of hydrogen into existing older
pipelines. Also, you know, the jurisdictional situation that we
have with transmission and pipelines.
We have been contemplating putting it under one roof. And I
know how staff is maybe territorial on this, but we are
thinking with FERC, where we have had all our pipelines and
transmission, we are looking at that for a new permitting bill.
Really want your input on that, how we can do that, and
basically synchronize this better.
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, we will.
Senator Manchin. Safety on pipelines first, if you can, and
get that.
Secretary Buttigieg. Sure. Yes, we have got the----
Senator Manchin. I am so sorry, Senator. Thank you.
Secretary Buttigieg [continuing].-- $228.2 million assigned
for pipeline safety. That includes operations, R&D on things
like leak detection and grants to states. We know how important
those can be. On the structural matter, we would defer to
Congress, but happy to work with you on that.
Senator Manchin. Okay. But on the pipelines, the type of--I
am told we have a lot of pipelines existing right now, also
that they can carry amounts, up to 20 percent of hydrogen right
now, the same pipelines. Some of the pipelines can be basically
retrofitted or what we call sleeved, if you will, a new
pipeline inside that, as we transition into more hydrogen.
We are going to need help from you all right now and
support, if we can use the existing right of ways that don't
have to go through all the environmental considerations, that
basically that pipeline is already there, why can't we
repurpose it for the same purpose that we have now as we
transition to other fuels?
So hopefully you all will be looking at that for us. Thank
you, Secretary, I appreciate it. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You
have been so kind.
ARPA-I
Senator Schatz. No problem, Senator Manchin. I just have
two final questions. We provided some seed money to begin the
planning process for Advanced Research Projects Agency-
Infrastructure (ARPA-I). And the President's budget is
requesting $19 million for the next phase. What are your short-
term accomplishments and your long-term goals for the program?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, thank you. We are very excited
about ARPA-I. It is patterned after the successful ARPA-E and
DARPA and ARPA models. They provide advanced research that just
isn't being met by other bodies, and we think could help lead
to transformative benefits in transportation areas of interest,
including safety.
With the $3.2 million that Congress provided for this
fiscal year, we have begun the development process to stand
this up, including a staffing plan and preparing to provide an
outline of research activities to Congress in the coming weeks,
followed by a strategic vision that we will seek to get to
Congress by October.
And ARPA-I has begun conducting outreach, workshops, and
other launch activities. With the $19 million requested in the
fiscal year 2024 budget, we would be able to advance this work,
fully, build out ARPA-I and begin pursuing projects that could
make a difference on things like breakthrough intersection
safety systems, which could reduce fatalities at intersections
that right now claim 10,000 lives per year in the United
States.
So, while this is not the biggest dollar amount you will
see in the budget, I think it is one of the areas where we may
see the most bang for our taxpayer buck in the same way that
the original DARPA famously generated trillion-dollar ideas
like the Internet itself based on the research funding that was
provided to them.
Senator Schatz. Thank you. Senator Feinstein can't join us
today, but she has a time sensitive question regarding
environmental protections for the Brightline West Rail Project.
Can you follow up with her office directly?
Secretary Buttigieg. We will make sure to do that,
Chairman.
UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS
Senator Schatz. Thank you very much. Senator Hoeven.
Senator Hoeven. Mr. Secretary, one of the things that we
work very hard on in North Dakota is developing the unmanned
aviation systems in the Grand Forks region. And we have a test
site there, the Northern Plains test site.
We work with the Grand Forks Air Force Base. We have a
technology partner, Grand Sky Technology Park. And so, we have
developed an incredible partnership and could do a lot more to
fly unmanned aircraft in the NAS safely and well.
We have been working with Bill Nolen, the Acting
Administrator right now. He has been helpful and we appreciate
it. What can you do to help us continue to advance that
industry?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, first of all, North Dakota
really has a lot to be proud of with regard to the research and
the work that has gone on here. I have spoken with your
Governor about it, too, and we view it as a major national area
of interest in aviation.
These uncrewed aircraft systems, or UAS are, we think,
going to transform a number of aviation uses, and some of those
maybe sooner than people think, especially with regard to use
cases like deliveries to remote or rural areas for urgently
needed pharmaceutical supplies, something we are supporting a
little bit of research on through our SMART grants.
I would direct your attention to the budget request, which
will total $138.9 million for fiscal year 2024 across different
activities related to UAS that would advance drone integration
into the NAS by supporting the development of the policies, the
procedures, and the standards that we are going to need,
recognizing that this is just different, related but different
from traditional crewed aircraft.
That is going to include partnerships with other agencies
and with industry on safety. It is going to require clear
standards on rules on things like beyond visual line of sight
operations, forecasting, and processing of the different
authorizations that are going to be needed.
So, we are enthusiastic about the potential of this
technology. We also recognize that it is going to create a lot
of challenges and we will diligently put these requested
dollars to use advancing that.
Senator Hoeven. And you committed to helping us develop UAS
in our test site and for the country?
Secretary Buttigieg. Welcome to continue to work with you
on that.
SUPPLY CHAIN
Senator Hoeven. All right. The other issue I want to bring
up to you is supply chain issues. Obviously, inflation is an
incredible problem right now. We need to do everything we can
to get it under control.
Too much spending here in D.C. is a big part of the
problem. But the supply chain issues are a huge issue. And that
involves everything from farmers getting containers, you know,
loading those containers at the ports, getting adequate truck
drivers. I just recently saw that the AGC, Associated General
Contractors said that they are not able to get enough skilled
tradesmen.
And, as you know, across the board, we are seeing a real
challenge with these supply chain issues. Obviously, in some
cases it is too much regulation. In some cases, they are not
able to get the people. Just the whole gamut. So, we have got
to get people back into the workforce. We have got to train
them expeditiously.
We have got to make sure that small business doesn't have a
regulatory burden that holds them back from doing what they
need to do to knock down these supply chain barriers and get
this terrible inflation down, which is, as you know, very
difficult for the American people. What are you doing to make
sure that we solve these supply chain issues?
Secretary Buttigieg. Well, I agree this continues to be a
major concern, and it is driven by a number of factors.
Certainly, the extremely low unemployment rate right now is a
factor. And the fact that the economic demand and the growth in
our economy came roaring back at a pace that even the most
optimistic scenarios just a couple of years ago didn't
anticipate, has put strain on the system.
Let me mention a near-term effort and then a longer-term
view. The near-term effort that I would invite your attention
to, is a program called Freight Logistics Optimization Works
(FLOW). This is by no means the biggest dollar amount you are
going to see in the budget. It is about $5.3 million requested
to support eight positions.
But this emerges from a partnership that we formed with
industry retailers like Target, Walmart, and Home Depot,
logistics companies like FedEx, UPS, and DHL. Shippers like
Maersk and MSC. And ports like Long Beach, Newark, and Georgia
to make sure that better information and data sharing took
place.
And to your point about small business, you know, the very
biggest firms sometimes have their own supply chains and are
not feeling the pinch in the same way that, for example, my in-
law's family business does when they can't get the hardware
that they need on time and can't exactly send a ship to go get
it.
We will be able to do more work with this so-called FLOW
Program that I think will make a big difference. And I would
also just echo your point that this is connected to the fight
against inflation.
Certainly encouraged to see that the cost of ocean shipping
in the Pacific is down 80 percent because we know that when it
was at those sky-high rates, that is one of the things that led
to inflation at its peak that we observed a few months ago.
There is a long way to go in making sure that we address those
issues.
Senator Hoeven. We need to see more help for small business
to really get through these supply chain issues.
Secretary Buttigieg. Agreed. And if I could just point to
one other thing. We are also mindful of this in our
grantmaking, in the infrastructure work that we are doing, that
we have got to shore up the infrastructure that those supply
chains move across, because that is a public responsibility,
even while we are working to support the private sector, doing
what it does best.
Senator Hoeven. Thank you.
Senator Schatz. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. Thank
you for your testimony today. Thank you for your partnership
with this committee. We have got a lot of work to do to pass an
appropriations bill, but I am confident that we will get there.
ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS
The hearing record will remain open until Friday, April
7th, to allow members to submit additional questions for the
record.
Questions Submitted by Senator Brian Schatz
aviation consumer protections
Question. Secretary Buttigieg has been very proactive on aviation
consumer protection issues, particularly with the unruly behavior from
passengers during the COVID-19 pandemic and getting airlines to improve
consumer protections without regulations. The Office of Aviation
Consumer Protections still receives over 100,000 complaints a year,
which is 500 percent higher than in 2019. The FY 2023 THUD bill
provided $1 million for eight new staff in the Office of Aviation
Consumer Protections. The FY 2024 budget request includes an additional
$4.6 million for eight additional positions, upgrades to the aviation
consumer complaint system, and a new rulemaking tracking system to help
keep Congress and the public aware of the Administration's regulatory
work.
In the 2023 Omnibus, this subcommittee provided new positions for
the Office of Aviation Consumer Protection to help with the increase in
complaints. What additional resources and authorities are needed to
improve the flying experience for passengers?
Answer. As you noted, the Office of Aviation Consumer Protection
(OACP) is continuing to receive a high volume of air travel service
complaints--102,561 complaints in 2020 (a 569 percent increase from
15,332 complaints received in 2019), 49,958 complaints in 2021 (a 226
percent increase compared to 2019), and 1177,656 complaints in 2022 (a
406 percent increase compared to 2019). Airlines receive significantly
more complaints and inquiries directly from consumers. By any measure,
consumer dissatisfaction with the airlines is very high.
OACP's mission is to assist and protect aviation consumers by
processing and analyzing consumer complaints, educating consumers about
their rights, enforcing aviation consumer protection and civil right
requirements, and drafting aviation consumer protection and civil
rights regulations. Currently, OACP consists of a team of 17 attorneys
(including the Assistant General Counsel), 15 transportation industry
analysts (TIAs), 3 support staff and paralegal, and 1 consumer affairs
analyst.
The DOT is taking action to expand OACP's capacity so it can be
more responsive to the needs of air travelers and ensure accountability
for airlines and ticket agents. At a time when aviation consumer
complaints are at a record high, the need to provide enhanced response
to the public has never been greater. The DOT recently extended terms
for 2 part-time reemployed annuitants to handle air travel service
complaints. The DOT is also continuing to allow overtime for staff
processing complaints and has reassigned more than 15 DOT employees
from other offices to assist with complaint handling, enforcement, and
rulemaking. In addition, DOT expects to hire 8 new staff in OACP in FY
2023 and has requested another 8 new staff positions in FY 2024 to
enable it to protect airline consumers against civil rights violations
and unfair and deceptive practices.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Patty Murray
Question. It's critical funding from the Bipartisan Infrastructure
Law is providing opportunities for small and disadvantaged businesses
in our communities. It's my understanding the Department set a target
of awarding 20% of Federal contracts to small and disadvantaged
businesses, which is a great start.
How is the Department working with the Minority Business
Development Agency and Small Business Administration to help reach this
goal?
Answer. The Secretary signed three memoranda of understanding
(MOUs) last September with the U.S. Small Business Administration and
the Minority Business Development Agency to support Departmental
capacity building and technical assistance efforts to help small and
disadvantaged businesses (SDB) increase their competitiveness and
footprint in the Federal marketplace.
Accordingly, we have taken the following actions:
--Developed a series of regional events in collaboration with both
SBA and MBDA. The ``Advancing Equitable Infrastructure
Opportunities Symposiums'' provide an opportunity for small and
disadvantaged businesses to learn about upcoming BIL-related
projects, funding, available technical assistance, and access
to capital programs. These sessions also include a business
matchmaking component to connect small and disadvantaged
businesses with State DOT procurement officials, prime
contractors, and technical assistance providers.
--Access to Capital
--Hired a private equity subject matter expert from SBA's Small
Business Investment Company (SBIC) program to spearhead
OSDBU's Access to Capital Initiative (ACI). This is a
targeted effort to bridge the awareness and relationship
gaps that persist between SDBs and providers of private
capital through moderated Access to Capital panel
discussions, SDB introductions to private capital
providers, and the development of a Virtual Connector
platform that facilitates introductions and meetings of
SDBs and private capital providers
--The Virtual Connector will be an online tool that will screen and
optimize matches of SDBs and private capital providers and
provide a means for them to coordinate meetings, then track
the progression of these burgeoning relationships.
--Surety Bond Guarantee Program
--SBA has engaged in data sharing with DOT by providing listings of
regional companies which have entered into a relationship
with the SBA Office of Surety Guarantees, which in turn
have been shared with DOT Small Business Transportation
Resource Centers (SBTRC) to assist small business owners in
gaining access to skilled SBTRC technical assistance.
--OSDBU's Bonding Education Program was recently added to SBA's
Surety Bond Guarantee (SBG) webpage to help increase
program marketing and promotion.
--SBG staff will join OSDBU Regional Symposiums to provide
technical assistance to construction firms.
In addition, DOT worked to improve tools and policies, as follows:
--Procurement forecast enhancement and streamline
--OSDBU expanded the DOT's procurement forecast to include new data
fields to assist SDB search for DOT direct contract
opportunities.
--Also, included Federal Aviation Administration forecasted
opportunities in the DOT's forecast along SDB to search for
DOT-wide opportunities in one location.
--FAA inclusion of WOSB, SDB and HubZone set asides in Acquisition
Management System (AMS).
--FAA amended its AMS to include set asides for women-owned, small
disadvantaged, and HUBZone firms. These policy changes
helped the FAA to significantly increase HubZone contract
awards in FY 2022.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Dianne Feinstein
Question. As you know, the FRA is reviewing the proposed $9 billion
Brightline West high-speed rail project to connect Las Vegas with East
Los Angeles. The line will go through California's Mojave Desert
between two national parks, home to various protected and endangered
species. I recently sent letters to you and Administrator Bose to
include three wildlife overpasses as required mitigation in the pending
permit. If left out of the permit, there is no enforceable requirement
to build the overpasses, and this project will jeopardize protected
wildlife.
Will the Department ensure that the NEPA documentation requires
environmental protections, specifically the three wildlife overpasses?
Answer. Brightline West's current design includes mitigation
developed in consultation with the United States Fish and Wildlife
Service (USFWS) for impacts to Federally endangered species, which was
included in FRA's September 2020 re-evaluation, and will remain in
FRA's forthcoming second project re-evaluation.
In addition to Federally listed endangered species, FRA, through
the re- evaluation, considered potential impacts to all wildlife,
including the desert bighorn sheep, mountain lions and other California
desert species. The Project, as currently designed, will include
measures to minimize or mitigate impacts to wildlife, such as mirroring
existing conditions of culverts and bridges to reduce potential effects
to wildlife movement, including the desert bighorn sheep.
Brightline West will design bridges, culverts, and fencing in
coordination with the USFWS, Bureau of Land Management (BLM), and
Caltrans to ensure they meet applicable standards, and are compatible
with the State's efforts, to the extent feasible.
The FRA is aware of an agreement between Brightline West, Caltrans,
and California Department of Fish and Wildlife (CDFW) dated January 11,
2023, to implement wildlife overpasses across I-15. The agreement
States CDFW prioritized remediation of wildlife barriers where the
Brightline System will be constructed and identified three priority
locations. The executed agreement includes Caltrans setting aside funds
to cover 75 percent of the initial preliminary cost estimate, as well
as owning and maintaining the three wildlife overcrossings after
construction. Brightline West will provide design services at no cost
to Caltrans or CDFW. These dedicated overcrossings will provide a
sustainable and safe path for wildlife, over the existing I-15 and
future high-speed rail system to be built within the median. The DOT
and FRA were pleased to learn about the agreement between the State of
California agencies and Brightline West.
Question. Why would FRA not require the overpasses when the science
clearly shows they are necessary and all the stakeholders say they
agree?
Answer. The FRA as part of the NEPA process has independently
reviewed information provided by Federal and State resource agencies,
along with information provided by Oregon State University and non-
governmental organizations (NGOs). The FRA has coordinated with the
USFWS to develop mitigation measures associated with Federally
endangered species including the Desert Tortoise and the Mojave Ground
Squirrel. These USFWS mitigation measures are included in the NEPA
documentation. The FRA reviewed potential impacts from the Brightline
West Project to other Mojave Desert species through the NEPA process,
which included the desert bighorn sheep, compared to the existing
conditions to determine if any mitigations are required. I-15 was
constructed in 1957. Through the NEPA review, FRA understands the
effect I-15 has had on species that require large ranges, and DOT also
understands the impacts the interstate system had on not only the human
environment but the natural environment. The current conditions show
overcrossings are a rare occurrence and the construction of a rail
system within the highway median would not result in significant
impacts from the current state. The DOT supports the agreement put in
place by Brightline West, Caltrans, and CDFW for three wildlife
overcrossings, which shares the burden of improving the existing
conditions for the desert bighorn sheep populations which have been
segmented by our interstate highway system and potentially the
Brightline West Project.
Question. I appreciate the Administration recognizing California's
unique authority under the Clean Air Act, which grants my state, and
the 16 other States that have adopted California standards, the
authority to set ambitious emission standards. However, federally
regulated sources of air pollution such as seagoing vessels, freight
locomotives, on-road and off- road heavy-duty vehicles and aviation
will soon make up a larger share of air pollution than sources subject
to state regulation.
Will you continue to work with the EPA and California to set the
strongest possible standards from all transportation sources?
Answer. According to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency
(EPA), the transportation sector is the leading source of greenhouse
gas (GHG) emissions in the country. As such, the Biden Administration
is pursuing an all-of-government approach to using its authorities to
reduce GHG emissions-and other air pollutants-across the entire
economy. The DOT is doing its part to address transportation GHG
emissions within its authorities and will continue to do so in
coordination with other Federal agencies, States, and other communities
and stakeholders, including by collaborating closely with EPA on fuel
economy standards. The DOT has rulemaking authority and administers
funding programs that can be used to help reduce emissions from several
sources. The Bipartisan Infrastructure Law created new programs and
expanded eligibilities and increased funding for some existing
programs, many of which can address GHG emissions across a variety of
modes of transportation within DOT's purview.
In September of 2022, DOT, the U.S. Department of Energy, the U.S.
Department of Housing and Urban Development, and EPA signed a
Memorandum of Understanding on decarbonizing the transportation sector,
demonstrating the Biden Administration's commitment to a holistic and
collaborative approach to addressing transportation GHG emissions. In
January of 2023, the agencies released the U.S. National Blueprint for
Transportation Decarbonization, which outlines strategies for reducing
GHG emissions from all sources of transportation through collaboration
among various levels of government and other stakeholders.
Question. California has aggressive plans to take advantage of the
historic bipartisan infrastructure bill to transform our mass transit,
port, and airport systems. This includes Los Angeles' ``28 by 28''
plans for the 2028 Summer Olympics, BART's expansion to Silicon Valley,
California High Speed Rail, improvements to Los Angeles and San
Francisco airports, and electrification and emissions reduction
projects at our Nation's largest ports. Some of these projects have
experienced enormous cost increases resulting from rising material
prices and lingering supply chain issues.
How does the Department of Transportation plan to address price
increases affecting design, funding, and construction plans for DoT
funded projects?
Answer. The DOT understands that communities across the Nation have
unmet transportation infrastructure needs that are critical to
improving the safety, quality of life, and economic competitiveness of
our communities. That is why DOT has sought and received a historic
increase in the amount of discretionary funding available to States and
localities to construct critical transportation projects across the
Nation. The DOT has worked with State and local project sponsors to
provide a large share of Federal funding to support infrastructure
projects within these communities. In some cases, and as legally
permissible, DOT has also provided 100 percent of Federal funding to
eligible applicants that do not have the resources needed for certain
projects or are impacted by rising costs of construction materials.
The DOT understands that cost increases can be disruptive to the
overall planning, design, and construction of infrastructure projects.
That is why DOT has historically required project sponsors to include
contingency funding in their financial plans when applying for
discretionary grant funding to account for unforeseen cost increases
due to a variety of factors, including inflationary cost increases.
This practice has proven effective in ensuring that project sponsors
are able to withstand price increases and complete needed projects.
Finally, DOT has a strong record of working collaboratively with
communities to find mutually agreeable solutions and amend grant
agreements when allowable by law or regulation to address unforeseen
cost increases or other disruptions to projects awarded transportation
infrastructure grants.
In October 2022, the White House hosted the Accelerating
Infrastructure Summit. At the Summit, the Administration and outside
organizations announced new efforts and an Action Plan to accelerate
the rebuilding of our Nation's infrastructure and maximize this once-
in-a-generation opportunity to build a better America.
As part of the efforts, DOT has launched the USDOT Project Delivery
Center of Excellence at U.S. DOT's Volpe National Transportation
Systems Center (https://www.volpe.dot.gov/project-delivery) to support
and educate transportation infrastructure project managers in States,
Tribes, local, regional, and territorial governments on project design,
planning, and construction. It will serve as a central resource for the
most innovative and effective practices and bring project managers
together to learn from one another.
Question. California is home to 40 million people, and we have led
the Nation in constructing large transit systems that move millions of
people each year. This includes construction currently underway on the
Nation's first truly high-speed rail project connecting San Francisco
and Los Angeles, as well as projects in the Sacramento Capitol
Corridor.
Will you commit to awarding California projects their fair share of
funding from the Federal-State Partnership Intercity Passenger Rail
Program, based on our population and the State's contribution in tax
dollars?
Answer. The Federal-State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail
(FSP) Program provides a generational Federal funding opportunity to
improve American passenger rail assets to expand or establish new
intercity passenger rail service across the United States. Funding
under the FSP-National Program is awarded on a competitive basis.
Applications submitted under the FY 2022-23 FSP-National Notice of
Funding Opportunity (NOFO) are currently undergoing review. Once
applications are submitted, FRA evaluates projects based on their
technical merit and project benefits as outlined in the NOFO.
Additionally, FRA will take into account a project's ability to meet
the Administration's goals of enhancing safety, addressing equitable
economic growth and job creation, equity and barriers to opportunity,
addressing climate change and sustainability, and transforming our
Nation's infrastructure. These steps are taken to ensure the Nation's
tax dollars are awarded to the most impactful projects across the
Nation. FRA looks forward to reviewing and evaluating all eligible
projects, including those located in California.
Question. Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) exposure has
been known to increase incidence of some kinds of cancer, reproductive
and developmental harms, and immune harms. Congress required the
Department of Defense to stop using PFAS-based firefighting foams by
October 2024, and the Federal Aviation Administration requires U.S.
civilian airports to meet the military's standards.
How do you plan to help airports transition away from using toxic
PFAS- based firefighting foams at civilian airports?
Answer. The DOT shares your concerns and developed a transition
plan for airports to use in their transition to the new fluorine-free
foam (F3). The FAA has met with the Department of Defense, the
Environmental Protection Agency, and our industry stakeholders,
including aircraft firefighters, to develop the plan. On May 8, 2023,
the FAA published the Aircraft Firefighting Foam Transition Plan,
meeting the congressional mandate to develop this plan. The Plan is
available on the FAA website at https://www.faa.gov/airports/
airport_safety/aircraft_rescue_fire_fighting/f3_transi tion. We will
continue to prioritize this transition in order to maintain the safest
air transportation system in the world while also addressing
environmental concerns.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Joe Manchin
Question. On February 27th, the Wall Street Journal reported that
every former Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) Administrator
spanning the Clinton Administration through the Trump Administration
wrote to you expressing public safety concerns over automakers like
Ford and Tesla taking AM radios out of their electric vehicle models.
AM radio is the backbone of the National Public Warning System. Because
of its reach and resiliency in the worst conditions, FEMA has invested
heavily in infrastructure to ensure these stations remain on air, even
in the event of an EMP attack or other disaster. In fact, AM radio
listening spikes during disasters like hurricanes and tornadoes. While
some automakers claim they are taking AM radios out of their electric
vehicle models because of interference to the AM signal generated by
electric motors, others like General Motors and Toyota have shown the
issue is easily resolvable and worked around.
Mr. Secretary, have you had any engagement with automakers related
to these public safety concerns?
Answer. The DOT recognizes the important role that AM radio has
played and continues to play in providing people the information they
need for safety, including information about weather emergencies. The
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is delegated
authority under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act to
protect the public against unreasonable risk of crashes due to the
design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and against
unreasonable risk of death or injury in a crash. We understand there is
legislation in Congress that would give NHTSA authority to require
automakers to equip motor vehicles with AM radios as standard
equipment. We look forward to closely reviewing the legislation and
working with Congress on this issue.
To better understand the issue, we have initiated dialogue with the
auto industry and with related industries on this important topic and
we are happy to keep you posted on those activities.
Question. Mr. Secretary, as you know, PFAS are a large family of
fluorinated chemicals, exposure to which is associated with increased
risk of cancer, harm to fetal development, and other serious health
problems. In the FY2020 National Defense Authorization Act, Congress
required the Department of Defense to stop using PFAS-based
firefighting foams entirely by October 1, 2024. Because the Federal
Aviation Administration (FAA) requires U.S. civilian airports to meet
the military's standards, funding will be needed to safely flush and
clean fire suppression systems and tanks holding old firefighting foam
stocks to facilitate this transition to PFAS-free foams.
How can the FAA use Airport Improvement Grants to help transition
civilian airports to firefighting foams without toxic PFAS chemicals?
Answer. Airport Improvement Program grants can pay for costs that
are eligible by statute and justified, such as replacing Aircraft
Rescue and Fire Fighting (ARFF) vehicles that are incompatible with
PFAS-free firefighting foam. The FAA is collaborating with our industry
and government partners to better understand how to successfully
eliminate reliance upon chemicals containing PFAS. In addition, the FAA
has met with the Department of Defense, the Environmental Protection
Agency and our industry stakeholders, including aircraft firefighters,
to develop a transition plan to the new fluorine-free foam (F3). On May
8, 2023, the FAA published the Aircraft Firefighting Foam Transition
Plan, meeting the congressional mandate to develop this plan. The Plan
is available on the FAA website at https://www.faa.gov/airports/
airport_safety/aircraft_rescue_fire_fighting/f3_transi tion.
Question. Corridor H was first designated by President Johnson as
part of the Appalachian Development Highway System (ADHS) in 1965 to
connect I-81 in Virginia to I-79 in West Virginia, and over 55 years
later, we're still working on it. There's a reason we still care.
Connecting the population base of the DC metro area to the interior of
West Virginia would be a game changer, and we've already seen huge
economic benefits along the sections that have already been completed.
When I was Governor, I was proud of open up more than half of Corridor
H. And I have been proud to secure Federal funding through
Appropriations over the past 3 years, and to include my Finish the ADHS
Act in the bipartisan Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act. Around
90% of Corridor H has been funded or completed. That leaves just 15
miles left in West Virginia. That's it. And the longer we wait to do
this, the more expensive it's going to be. It's long past time we
finish the job.
Mr. Secretary, I appreciate our past conversations and your
attention to finishing Corridor H. Will you commit to working with us
to finish this once and for all?
Answer. Yes, I commit to working with you, State stakeholders, and
the Appalachian Regional Commission to complete the corridor in
accordance with the law as expeditiously as possible.
Question. During my time in the Senate, I've fought to keep ticket
agents in West Virginia, save the New River Train, and expand rail
service that keeps my state connected to the rest of the Nation. We
have two Amtrak lines that stop in West Virginia, the Capitol Limited,
which runs through our Eastern Panhandle, and the Cardinal, which runs
from New York City to Chicago and traverses much of the southern
portion of the State--from the Summit Bechtel National Scout Reserve,
the State Capitol in Charleston, to Marshall University in Huntington.
The Cardinal line is also notable as the only train with an Amtrak stop
inside of a National Park--the New River Gorge National Park and
Preserve--in the entire United States. Unfortunately, it is also one of
two lines in the entire country that only runs 3 days per week. We've
all talked about making sure to restore service across the Nation after
the pandemic. Any form of transportation needs reliable service or
people will stop using it, and it makes no sense to me that West
Virginia shouldn't have the same consistent service as the rest of the
country. That's why I'm proud to say that I am working with the Federal
Railroad Administration (FRA) to evaluate ways to restore daily service
on the Cardinal.
Can I count on you and your team to work with my staff and
stakeholders in West Virginia to look at ways to restore 7 day a week
service on this critical transportation route to my state?
Answer. Section 22214 of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law directs
FRA to conduct a study to evaluate the restoration of daily passenger
service along discontinued Amtrak long-distance routes, as well as
``any Amtrak long-distance routes that, as of the date of the enactment
of this act, occur on a non-daily basis.'' As of the enactment of the
act, two Amtrak long-distance routes provided (and continue to provide)
service three days per week: the Cardinal, which operates between New
York and Chicago via West Virginia, and the Sunset Limited, which
operates between New Orleans and Los Angeles. As part of the study, FRA
is evaluating restoring daily service to both the Cardinal and Sunset
Limited, including potential costs associated with daily service. FRA
is engaging with State DOTs, Amtrak, Class I Railroads, metropolitan
planning organizations, regional passenger rail authorities, local
officials, federally recognized Tribes, and the broader stakeholder
community as we evaluate how to better connect people with long-
distance rail services. Materials from the study's regional working
group meetings are available on the study website at https://
fralongdistancerailstudy.org/. Representatives from the West Virginia
DOT, West Virginia Regional Intergovernmental Council, and KYOVA
Interstate Planning Commission (West Virginia, Kentucky & Ohio) have
participated in working group sessions to date. The FRA looks forward
to further engagement with stakeholders across the country--including
those from West Virginia--as the study progresses.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Chris Van Hollen
Question. Washington Union Station is the second busiest train
station in the country. The station anchors the southern end of the
Northeast Corridor, is the centerpiece of potential regional run-
through commuter rail service between Maryland and Virginia, and serves
as a gateway for domestic and international travelers visiting the
Nation's capital. Despite the vital role the station plays, much of
Union Station's rail infrastructure and passenger facilities have been
left largely untouched or decreased in size since the building was
originally constructed in 1907. With station ridership expected to
double between 2000 and 2040, the station is quickly being pushed
beyond capacity. Due to the absence of much-needed improvements and
renovations, the station's safety, security, and accessibility
deficiencies threaten future operations. As you know, the Union Station
Redevelopment Corporation and Amtrak have developed a plan for the
Washington Union Station Expansion Project (SEP) to address these
challenges and expand Union Station to serve the region and nation's
next century. Whereas nearly all other multimodal transportation
facilities are owned by State or municipal transportation entities,
Union Station is federally-owned by DOT--making this a truly unique
asset. The Federal Government has a responsibility to ensure that Union
Station is maintained and expanded to meet the needs of the public.
Congress stands ready to assist the Administration as necessary to
implement this project, but DOT must play a vital role during this
formative period.
Do you agree that completion of the SEP is of significant
importance to both regional and national interests and that DOT--as the
owner of Washington Union Station--needs to play a more active role in
ensuring this project moves forward without additional delays?
Answer. The SEP is of critical interest to DOT and FRA. Therefore,
DOT and FRA continue to play an active role in moving this project
forward:
--Recently, the FRA identified the Union Station Redevelopment
Corporation (USRC) as the Project Sponsor. As such, USRC will
oversee the planning, design, and construction of the SEP.
Prior to coming to Washington, USRC's new CEO led the execution
and delivery of the Moynihan Train Hall expansion to Penn
Station, a project of similar scale and complexity.
--The FRA released the Supplemental Draft Environmental Impact
Statement (EIS) for the SEP on May 12, 2023, and plans to issue
the Final EIS/Record of Decision in January 2024, per the
schedule published on the Federal Permitting Dashboard.
--The SEP is listed on FRA's Northeast Corridor Project Inventory as
a project in pre-construction and was eligible to apply for
funding through the Federal State Partnership for Intercity
Passenger Rail--Northeast Corridor Program for pre-
construction activities.
Question. As the owner of Washington Union Station, what steps can
DOT take now, in advance of the EIS completion to position this
essential project for execution?
Answer. The FY 2024 President's Budget proposes to set aside $15
million from the Federal-State Partnership for Intercity Passenger Rail
program for a directed grant to the Union Station Redevelopment
Corporation to advance critical state of good repair and rehabilitation
projects at the station. Currently FRA is funding and overseeing
several near-term foundational projects that set the stage for the SEP.
These include the Track 22 Rehabilitation Project, the Washington Union
Station Subbasement Structural Replacement Program and Subbasement
Utility Relocation Project, and the Concourse Modernization Project.
The FRA is also involved in several activities that are essential
to project execution:
--The Office of the Secretary (OST) and FRA are on the Advisory Group
for the District of Columbia (District) commissioned study on
the delivery and governance of the SEP. The District will
complete the Study by the end of 2023 and it will recommend a
project delivery approach including the governance structure,
and the financial, legal, and legislative roadmap to implement
the SEP.
--The FRA is working with Amtrak to coordinate with and obtain
agreement from the other rail operators regarding the SEP
terminal infrastructure construction phasing and track outages.
--The FRA is consulting with the U.S. General Services Administration
to understand requirements/best practices for disposal of
Federal property and acquisition of property for Federal
development, including air rights.
--The FRA, USRC, and Amtrak will submit the SEP to the National
Capital Planning Commission for Preliminary Review approval and
to the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts for Concept Review approval
prior to the end of calendar year 2023.
Question. Would you support the Department's development of an
action plan to clarify and establish what organizational entity will
oversee the planning, design, and construction of the SEP?
Answer. The DOT agrees that a governance and execution action plan
will be vital in ensuring the successful execution and completion of
the SEP. The FRA recently identified the USRC as the Project Sponsor.
Additionally, FRA is an active participant in the District of Columbia
commissioned delivery and governance study.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Cindy Hyde-Smith
essential air service
Question. There are 4 Essential Air Service (EAS) communities in
Mississippi. We want to ensure funding for the EAS program.
Additionally, it is important that airlines exist to serve EAS
communities, especially in light of the pilot shortage. At least one
new entrant is SkyWest Charter who hopes to serve many EAS communities,
but their application for commuter authority appears to be held up.
Will DOT please act quickly to approve the SkyWest Charter
application so communities in Mississippi and other States across the
US may continue EAS service?
Answer. The DOT has been hearing from many communities awaiting a
decision on SkyWest Charter's application and appreciates how important
this is for the communities. The DOT is actively reviewing SkyWest
Charter's application and providing full and fair consideration to the
pleadings filed in the public docket. As this matter is contested, DOT
is unable to comment on the merits of the application. Regarding the
EAS communities in Mississippi, DOT continues to hold in SkyWest
Airlines at Hattiesburg/Laurel and Meridian, on 30-day periods, and
will hold in SkyWest Airlines until a replacement carrier is located.
For Greenville and Tupelo, which currently have Alternate EAS grants,
Corporate Flight Management, Inc. d/b/a Contour Airlines is their
selected air carrier.
Outside of EAS, DOT has invested heavily in improving Mississippi's
airports. Since 2019, the FAA has provided airports in MS over $148
million in Airport Improvement Program (AIP) funding for eligible
capital development and $71 million in COVID relief funds. In addition,
airports around the state have received over $57.4 million in funding
provided through programs established under the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law (BIL), which includes the BIL Airport Infrastructure
Grant program; and the Airport Terminal Program (ATP) and FAA Contract
Tower (FCT) competitive discretionary grant programs. The DOT has also
awarded Small Community Air Service Development Program (SCASDP) grants
to Mississippi communities, including a $750,000 grant to the Golden
Triangle Airport and a $750,000 grant to the Natchez-Adams County
Airport to improve air service; both communities are actively working
to recruit an air carrier.
airport improvement program funding
Question. Will FAA change its position on allowing AIP funds to be
used for the maintenance, enhancement, and extension of secondary
runways?
Answer. AIP funds are eligible to maintain, enhance, and extend
existing secondary runways when there is a demonstrated capacity need
at the airport. Some airports have lost either the frequency of
operations or service, or both, that originally justified secondary
runways. When aircraft operations have declined over a sustained period
of time, it is difficult to justify AIP funding to maintain existing
secondary runways (or at least to their full existing dimensions) given
other priority infrastructure needs around the airport system. In
addition, the Federal Government has made a significant investment in
developing all-weather runway infrastructure, and well-established
regional systems of airports that can provide support during irregular
operations. However, the FAA does consider exceptions unrelated to
capacity based on unique operational circumstances of the airport and
its users. Examples include the need to efficiently separate faster jet
aircraft from slower propeller aircraft, efficiency and operational
resiliency for certain demanding air medical transport and aircraft
firefighting (e.g., wildfire) operations, inclusion in a noise
abatement preferential runway use program, and significant facility
investment (hangars or maintenance, repair, and oversight facilities
(MROs) that are located to use the secondary runway.
chinese manufactured drones
Question. I understand that the FAA still uses drones made by
Chinese companies in its work, and may permit third party contractors
to fly DJI drones to inspect the FAA's national infrastructure. Will
the Department commit to reviewing this matter and ensuring that
Federal taxpayer dollars are not used to fund the operation of
technology that places our security at risk?
Answer. The FAA utilizes the GSA Blue Unmanned Aircraft Systems
(UAS) approved system list as a default for appropriate UAS systems to
acquire for operational purposes. The existing policy was implemented
following the issuance of Executive Order 13981, Protecting the United
States from Certain Unmanned Aircraft Systems. The intent to curtail
the acquisition of ``covered systems'' of foreign-manufactured drones
was implemented in a policy that the FAA will not acquire any ``covered
systems,'' either directly or through a contractor, for the operations
of the FAA.
However, understanding that foreign-manufactured drones make up the
majority of the entire UAS marketplace, it is crucial to ensure that
the highest fidelity research possible is performed to adequately
address the safety of the National Airspace System (NAS). Therefore, to
meet the FAA's statutory and regulatory requirements regarding the
safety of the NAS, the FAA needs to conduct research, utilizing
foreign-manufactured drones and domestically-manufactured drones, to
compile the data necessary to inform UAS data-driven policy decisions,
safety assessments, procedures, rulemaking, and standards to enable the
agency to integrate emerging entrants safely and securely. The FAA does
individualized cybersecurity planning to implement the safeguards
necessary to properly protect the integrity of FAA and U.S. Government
systems from foreign-manufactured drones.
Question. Do you agree that DOT should ensure Federal grant funding
is not being used on drones manufactured by companies that pose a
threat to national security?
Answer. Yes. In the context of research and development, the FAA
conducts a significant body of research through its FAA Center of
Excellence (COE) for Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) (also known as
ASSURE) using grant funding to inform UAS data-driven policy decisions,
safety assessments, procedures, rulemaking, and standards to enable the
agency to integrate emerging entrants safely and securely. This
research evaluates safety risks and requires consideration and
evaluation of the characteristics of drones most commonly flying in the
U.S. today. Foreign-manufactured drones make up the majority of the
marketplace, so it is crucial to ensure that the highest fidelity
research possible is performed to adequately address the safety of the
NAS.
The use of Federal grant money should be scrutinized and only
approved for narrowly focused research efforts that expand the FAA's
knowledge and understanding of the safety and security risks posed by
foreign manufactured drones. Every day, manufacturers are modifying and
evolving their technologies with different modalities, protocols, and
capabilities that can only be understood through tailored research
efforts that look at these systems and assess their impact to public
safety, the airport environment, and to the National airspace.
Question. What process does the Department have in place to vet
incoming Federal grant applications for connections to Chinese military
companies?
Answer. The FAA Center of Excellence (COE) for Unmanned Aircraft
Systems (UAS) is required to certify that they have reviewed the latest
Department of Homeland Security (DHS) industry alert on drone use if it
is determined drones will be utilized in research grants. They must
further assess and certify the risks within their proposals, which are
then reviewed by the FAA.
FAA's Airport Improvement Program and Bipartisan Infrastructure Law
grant programs can only accept grant applications from recognized
airport sponsors, pursuant to Federal law. The grant recipients, in
turn, are required to comply with Federal procurement regulations,
including Build America, Buy America Act requirements (Pub. L. 117-58,
div. G, title IX, subtitle A), and other requirements under Sec. 889 of
the National Defense Authorization Act of 2019 (Pub. L. 115- 232) on
restrictions related to Chinese manufacturers.
gps backup
Question. Federal policy requires DOT to identify and respond to
GPS interference incidents, improve resilience to GPS interference, and
ensure transportation safety. Unfortunately, very little progress has
been made in this space over the last few years. In fact, we are still
awaiting the Administration's guidance on EO 13905, which is
specifically calls on DOT, and others, to strengthen our Nation's PNT
resiliency.
When should Congress expect to see the release of the
Administration's guidance on Executive Order 13905?
Answer. The National Space-Based PNT Executive Committee (EXCOM)
Departments and Agencies are working to implement EO 13905, including
activities related to GPS and Complementary PNT systems, but are not
currently working on issuing guidance with respect to EO 13905. EO
13905 and SPD-7 form a policy ecosystem that encompasses all forms of
PNT technology. The National Security Council (NSC) has also provided
oversight of Executive Branch activities regarding execution of EO
13905 responsibilities, including implementation activities the Sector
Risk Management Agencies (SRMAs) are working on with individual
critical infrastructure sectors designed to promote the responsible use
of PNT by owners and operators of PNT.
Section 4 of Executive Order (EO) 13905 identifies several
implementation activities designed to promote the responsible use of
PNT by owners and operators of PNT; DOT has been conducting a number of
related initiatives in support of Strengthening National Resilience
Through Responsible Use of PNT Services for the Transportation Systems
Sector (TSS). These initiatives are enumerated below:
1) PNT Profile Adaptation (EO 13905, Section 4(a) and Vulnerability
Assessment and Testing (EO 13905, Section 4(c))
DOT has been conducting PNT vulnerability assessments and testing
focused on aviation, maritime, rail, as well as connected and automated
vehicle applications that apply the NIST PNT Profile (NISTIR 8323) five
core functions: Identify, Protect, Detect, Respond, Recover. These
functions provide a high-level, strategic view of the life cycle of an
organization's management of PNT cybersecurity risk.
2) Federal Radionavigation Plan (FRP) (EO 13905, Section 4(b))
DOT, DHS, and the Department of Defense (DOD) incorporated
references to EO 13905, and specifically to the NIST PNT profile, into
updated Sections 3.2.10, 3.2.11, and 6.5 of the 2021 Federal
Radionavigation Plan signed by the Secretaries of Homeland Security,
Transportation, and Defense released on July 1, 2022.
3) PNT Contractual Language (EO 13905, Section 4(d))
DOT participates in the DHS-led working group to develop and
evaluate PNT resilience contract language through table-top exercises
with contract and acquisition professionals. The projected timeline is
as follows:
--August/September 2023: Complete working draft of PNT Contract
Language Guidelines. Interagency review will be coordinated by
the National Coordination Office (NCO) for Space-Based
Positioning, Navigation, and Timing.
--September 30, 2023: Final DHS/Cybersecurity and Infrastructure
Security Agency (CISA)-approved PNT model contract language
ready for Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) Council
submission and concurrent Guidelines/Best Practices release on
the DHS/CISA website. FAR Council Case standard timeline is
approximately 16 months from submission.
4) DOT Maritime Pilot Program (EO 13905, Section 4(g))
DOT focused its pilot program on GPS jamming and spoofing in the
maritime environment through a partnership between OST-R and MARAD.
MARAD maintains over 40 U.S. Government-owned ships as part of the
Ready Reserve Force (RRF) fleet that supports national security
operations around the globe. This Pilot Program identified specific
shipboard systems aboard MARAD's RRF vessels that use or form PNT data,
identified a Complementary PNT data source suitable for the maritime
operating environment to diversify acquisition of PNT service data from
a non-GPS source, detected the disruption and manipulation of PNT
services in actual and simulated marine environments; and provided
MARAD with a framework to manage the associated risks to the shipboard
systems, networks, and assets dependent on PNT services. These findings
led to recommendations for candidate technologies that could help
mitigate the effects of GPS signal disruption sources and will inform
future PNT acquisition decisions for RRF vessels.
5) DOT Implementation Activities in Support of the National
Research and Development Plan for PNT Resilience (EO 13905, Section
4(h))
The R&D Plan for PNT Resilience issued by the Office of Science and
Technology Policy (OSTP) in August 2021 prioritizes 14 objectives which
are focused on achieving greater PNT service resilience. DOT selected
to participate in 13 of the 14 research objectives.
gao report re: gps interference
Question. All transportation modes use and rely on accurate and
reliable GPS information for PNT purposes. This information is critical
to public safety and the efficient management of U.S. transportation
systems. However, it is also a represents a severe vulnerability to
U.S. travelers and our Nation's macroeconomic wellbeing. Until the
recent NOTAM disruption, GPS was perhaps the most significant ``single
point of failure'' concern in our transportation ecosystem.
According to a December 2022 GAO report about GPS disruptions and
resiliency, ``DOT identified 196 potential GPS interference incidents
from January 2020 through May 2022. However, GAO found that DOT's
process does not include all available user reports, and DOT's data
contain inaccurate information.''
Is the Department partnering with the private sector to identify
PNT resiliency solutions that eliminate this single-point-of-failure
while minimizing taxpayer exposure?
Answer. The DOT is developing guidance to document standard
processes to record GPS interference incidents across all
transportation modes and to ensure quality assurance oversight. The DOT
also has entered into an Interagency Agreement with the DOD Defense
Innovation Unit to accelerate the implementation of an automated GPS
interference detection capability leveraging the use of commercial data
from GPS receivers across space, aviation, maritime, and surface
domains. This capability will provide the U.S. Government and the
public with a common operating picture of GPS interference events.
In addition, DOT is developing a detailed Complementary PNT (CPNT)
Action Plan to drive adoption of resilient PNT solutions based on
commercial PNT technologies across the Nation's transportation system
and within other critical infrastructure sectors. The plan involves
engaging PNT technology vendors and critical infrastructure owners and
operators, supporting the development of CPNT specifications and
standards, conducting CPNT testing and evaluation, and creating a
Federal PNT Services Clearinghouse. Taken together with the efforts of
other Federal partners, these initiatives will continue to strengthen
the resilience of the Nation's PNT-dependent systems by encouraging and
promoting the responsible use of PNT by owners and operators of
critical infrastructure, resulting in safer and more secure critical
infrastructure.
cybersecurity--pnt
Question. There are areas that I do want to commend the Department
for its action to ensure cybersecurity and all-hazards resilience,
including Positioning, Navigation and Timing (PNT), are part of the
standard Notices of Funding Opportunities language that the Department
issues for the discretionary programs. I am, however, concerned that
recipients, such as the State DOTs, are not fully aware of the certain
eligibilities like PNT.
What efforts are being undertaken by the Department to ensure it is
fully communicated to applicants given the critical importance of PNT?
Answer. The DOT has taken an aggressive and considered approach to
informing potential applicants, both new entrants and repeat grantees,
of the many opportunities afforded them by the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law (BIL) and other grants, including cybersecurity and
all-hazards resilience. The DOT launched and continues to improve the
DOT Navigator, a resource to help communities understand the best ways
to apply for grants, and to plan for and deliver transformative
infrastructure projects and services. The DOT Navigator (https://
www.transportation.gov/grants/dot-navigator/about-dot-navigator)
provides general information to develop grant applications and
understand frequently required documents, contacts to DOT regional and
field offices, and a searchable menu of technical assistance resources
available to help new and repeat grantees to realize their communities'
visions for moving goods and people safely, efficiently, sustainable,
and equitably. The DOT routinely delivers new toolkits and holds
webinars on these grant opportunities, and sponsors outreach to
specific communities, such as the Rural Opportunities to Use
Transportation for Economic Success (ROUTES) initiative.
Examples of the success of this technical assistance concerning PNT
and cybersecurity include the February 2023 selection of two grantees
in the BIL University Transportation Center (UTC) Program:
--Center for Assured and Resilient Navigation in Advanced
Transportation Systems at the Illinois Institute of Technology,
and
--Center for Automated Vehicle Research with Multimodal Assured
Navigation at The Ohio State University.
In the Strengthening Mobility and Revolutionizing Transportation
(SMART) Grants program, March 2023 selections included:
--Regional Planning Commission of Greater Birmingham, to convert
existing public transportation systems in Central Alabama into
an integrated mobility system leveraging cyberinfrastructure,
route optimization and planning, service integration, trip
dispatching, and more.
--North Carolina Department of Transportation, to provide hands free,
eyes free alerts to motorists through existing smartphone
applications and navigation systems in North Carolina.
roadway safety technology
Question. Approximately 43,000 people died in motor vehicle traffic
crashes in 2021. This represents the highest number of fatalities since
2005 and the largest annual percentage increase ever recorded. This is
both tragic and unacceptable. Many roadway deaths are avoidable thanks
to advancements in roadway safety technologies, such as Cellular
Vehicle-to-Everything (C-V-2-X), among other technologies that enables
vehicles to communicate with other vehicles, with the infrastructure
they are driving on, and with nearby. In fact, NHTSA estimates safety
applications enabled by V2X could eliminate or mitigate the severity of
more than 80 percent of vehicle crashes.
There is significant desire in both the public and private sector
to deploy C-V2X. The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) recently
received waiver requests from more than 10 State DOTs, three major
automakers, and nearly 20 technology companies and equipment
manufacturers interested in deploying C-V2X. Now is the time to deploy
C-V2X throughout our transportation system.
What is the Department doing to promote rapid and widespread
deployment of C-V2X and will you commit to provide the leadership
necessary to ensure the Nation will realize the overwhelming safety
benefits of C-V2X?
Answer. The DOT is strongly committed to advancing deployment of C-
V2X capabilities to reduce roadway crashes and fatalities.
The DOT is working on a number of paths to promote rapid and
widespread deployment of C-V2X:
--The DOT has held two Intelligent Transportation System (ITS)
stakeholder community Summits (stakeholder engagement sessions)
to identify ongoing needs so that DOT can help overcome gaps
and challenges to allow stakeholders to move forward
successfully with their deployments. The DOT has been:
--Partnering with National Telecommunications and Information
Administration (NTIA) on test-based analyses that support
Federal Communications Commission (FCC) ability to grant
the pending waivers.
--Developing technical guidance and assistance to support V2X field
deployments.
--Working with industry on V2X standards and implementation
processes.
--During the first V2X Communications Summit in August 2022, the
stakeholder community requested that DOT partner with FCC and
NTIA to resolve issues remaining with the FCC decision that
would allow the FCC to grant waivers to permit deployment of C-
V2X technology; and that DOT coordinate the development of a
nationally scalable and interoperable Deployment Plan.
--On April 24, 2023, the FCC granted a joint waiver request that
allows automakers like Ford, Jaguar Land Rover, and Audi,
State departments of transportation in Utah and Virginia,
and private companies to deploy cellular Vehicle to
Everything (C-V2X) technology in the 5.9 GHz band.
--Since August 2022, the DOT team has collected needs statements
and ideas for how to create a Deployment Plan that can be
executed by and with State and local deployers and
automotive manufacturers (including after-market
installations as well as fully equipped vehicles).
--Working with the stakeholder trade associations-AASHTO, ITE, ITS
America, ATSSA, Auto Innovators, and 5GAA-the DOT team held
``mini dialogues'' with association members as well as
individual State and local departments of transportation,
to gather input on vision, mission, goals, and strategies
for the Plan.
--On April 28, 2023, DOT held the second Summit on Enhancing
Interoperable Connectivity for Safe Transportation to
collaboratively work on developing the Deployment Plan.
gao report on aviation safety bi-laterals and validation
Question. For many years, the Committee focused on FAA efforts to
improve the aviation safety bi-lateral agreements and maintain fairness
for U.S. companies in the international marketplace. The GAO has an
ongoing review of the resources and activities related to FAA's
efforts, which may inform decisions into this Committee's oversight of
these activities moving forward, particularly given the implications
for U.S. manufacturers.
When this GAO report is complete, will you commit to a discussion
with this committee on its findings?
Answer. FAA leadership in the global aviation community is
essential not only for the benefit of U.S. travelers flying abroad, but
also for the U.S. and international aerospace industry. The FAA values
GAO's work and respects the findings of its review. The FAA would be
happy to discuss the findings in the GAO report with the Committee.
aircraft emissions
Question. In 2016, under the leadership of the United States, the
International Civil Aviation Organization completed its first ever Fuel
Efficiency Standards with the goal to limit aircraft CO2 emissions. The
standards were agreed to by more than 190 countries. The U.S. is in the
process of implementing these standards through an FAA rule-making
initiated in June 2022. Once adopted, all U.S. aircraft will have to be
certified to these new standards in order to be delivered to their
customers after 2027. The European Union adopted its implementation
rule in 2019, and completed its first certification of an aircraft in
2020. U.S. manufacturers of large and small aircraft are anxious to
have a final FAA rule released as soon as possible in order to begin
certifying aircraft to the standard. However, that rule will need to be
completed before our domestic manufacturers will be able to apply for
those certifications
Can you please tell the Committee when you expect the rule to be
finalized?
Answer. On January 11, 2021, EPA published a final rule adopting
the ICAO standard into U.S. regulations as a new part in title 40 of
the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) (40 CFR Part 1030). On June 15,
2022, in accordance with requirements under the Clean Air Act for the
FAA to enforce the standard at the time of aircraft certification, the
FAA proposed new certification regulations for certain airplanes to
ensure compliance with EPA standards. The applicability of the proposed
regulations and the regulatory emissions limits in the United States
are the same as those adopted by ICAO as its airplane CO2 emissions
standard. The comment period for FAA's proposal closed on August 15,
2022, and the FAA received sixty-two comments on the rule. The FAA is
currently working on a final rule, which the FAA anticipates will
publish in September 2023.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Susan M. Collins
faa family seating policy
Question. The Department is proposing legislation that would
require airlines to seat children with an accompanying adult. Like
many, I believe young children should be able to sit next to a parent
or guardian when flying, without having to pay an additional fee. I
want to make sure all customers have the same experience regardless of
the airline they choose to fly. However, there seems to be a much
higher burden placed on airlines that do not assign seats versus those
that do.
I commend the Department's efforts to get several carriers to agree
to the Department's new family seating commitment, which is reflected
in DOT's new dashboard, as well as the legislation you are asking
Congress to adopt. Unfortunately, it appears the reason why some
carriers were willing to change their policies is because DOT only
wants carriers that assign seats to agree to provide adjacent seating
for families only when such seats are available at the time of booking.
This is unlike DOT's expectation of carriers that do not assign seats,
or have an open seating model, in which case DOT is requiring adjacent
seating at the time of boarding. There is a big difference to require
adjacent seating when seats are available at the time consumers
purchase their tickets versus during the boarding process.
I want to learn more about the data the Department used to justify
its proposal. Is it from the number of complaints, or were there other
data points used?
Answer. In July 2022, DOT issued a notice urging airlines to do
everything that they can to ensure the ability of a young child to be
seated next to an accompanying adult family member or other
accompanying adult, without charging fees for adjacent seating. The
DOT's review of airline seating policies revealed that airlines'
seating policies and practices do not ensure that a child is able to be
seated next to an accompanying adult family member. The DOT also
reviewed family seating complaints that it received against airlines.
While the number of complaints DOT receives from air travelers about
family seating is low compared to other categories of complaints
against airlines, the impact of a single incident can be significant
for the affected family.
The following are only some examples of complaints involving family
seating issues which DOT received prior to sending the proposed
legislation. The examples involve a variety of major U.S. airlines.
--A family with a 3-year-old did not pay more for advance seating.
Each member of the family, including the 3-year-old, received a
middle seat assignment before flight. The family arrived at the
airport early for assistance with seating the 3-year old with
an adult only to receive no help from the staff or flight
attendants. Parents had to ``bargain'' with passengers on board
for volunteers to move. The airline's response did not dispute
the occurrence.
On the same airline, another complaint said that a 2-year old was
given a middle seat next to strangers and it was only through the
goodwill of a passenger willing to accept a middle seat that the child
sat with a parent. The complaint asserts that airline employees did not
assist and only ``chided'' them for not paying to get seats together.
The airline's response did not dispute the occurrence.
--A nine-year-old did not sit next to his parent because when they
boarded the aircraft other passengers who boarded earlier were
saving seats and no passenger would move. The airline's
response did not dispute the occurrence and stated that it does
not have a specific policy that prevents customers from saving
seats and it cannot guarantee customers will be able to find
seats together on the aircraft. Another complaint about the
airline asserted that the airline asked the parent to pay a
premium boarding fee to guarantee that 10- year-old twins could
sit with their parents because its family boarding was only for
kids 6 and under. In its response, the airline said that it
offers upgraded boarding as a voluntary purchase for a prime
boarding position, but still doesn't guarantee a specific seat
onboard.
--A customer called the airline in advance of flight to ask if the
airline can seat a 2-year old with a parent. The carrier said
the party would have to wait until they get to the airport, but
it was possible that the 2-year-old would sit with two random
strangers. In its response, the airline apologized that the
consumer was unaware of the restrictions on basic economy fares
which do not have advanced seat assignments. After the
passenger complained to DOT, the airline said it gave a one-
time exception to the policy.
Whether an airline assigns seats or an airline has an open seating
model, DOT believes a parent who purchases airline tickets for a family
should receive a guarantee from the airline that it will seat the
parent and child together without fees or a last-minute scramble at the
gate or on the aircraft.
For airlines that assign seats, under DOT's proposed legislation,
these airlines would be required to ensure each young child is seated
adjacent to an accompanying adult to the extent adjacent seats are or
become available after the family is ticketed. The DOT included this
exception in the proposed legislation to avoid airlines taking away a
seat that is already assigned to another passenger.
Because airlines that practice open seating do not assign seats,
the proposed legislation does not include similar language for the open
seating model. The DOT's proposal leaves it to the discretion of
airlines that practice open seating to decide what policies and
procedures work best to ensure children aged 13 and under receive seats
next to an accompanying adult without the family needing to pay more
for their trip for this purpose.
Will the Department commit to providing the data you used to
justify the Administration's proposal?
Answer. The DOT stands ready to provide Members of Congress and
congressional staff with additional information about its proposal that
would fast track a ban on charges for family seating and require
airlines to seat young children adjacent to an accompanying adult. As
shown on DOT's Airline Family Seating Dashboard (https://
www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/airline-family- seating-dashboard),
three U.S. airlines that sell tickets have voluntarily made enforceable
guarantees for fee-free family seating, but most have declined to make
a guarantee to their customers.
vehicle safety
Question. Many localities use AM broadcasts to provide up to date
local information. For example, the Maine Turnpike Authority uses 1610
AM for emergency and non- emergency messages that are broadcast 24/7.
These broadcasts can be issued for critical safety reasons, including
accidents that close portions of the Turnpike or a major winter weather
event. Recently, some electric vehicle manufacturers have eliminated AM
radios from their cars noting that the electric motors interfere with
the signal. This comes as the Administration is promoting the adoption
of electric vehicles for personal, business, and official governmental
purposes.
Do you believe that the removal of AM radio from vehicles
jeopardizes safety? If so, what steps is the Department of
Transportation taking to ensure that motorists can continue to freely
and safely receive local alerts without creating new burdens on
localities?
Answer. The DOT recognizes the important role that AM radio has
played and continues to play with regard to people getting information
that they need for safety, including information about weather
emergencies. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
is delegated authority under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle
Safety Act to protect the public against unreasonable risk of crashes
due to the design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and
against unreasonable risk of death or injury in a crash. We understand
there is legislation in Congress that would give NHTSA authority to
require automakers to equip motor vehicles with AM radios as standard
equipment. We look forward to closely reviewing the legislation and
working with Congress on this issue.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Shelley Moore Capito
Question. Turning to rail safety, you had stated initially that the
previous Administration was to blame because they did not implement a
rail braking regulation--known as electronically controlled pneumatic
brakes or ECP brakes. Yesterday, the Commerce Committee had a hearing
on the East Palestine derailment, and I asked Chair Homendy of the NTSB
about this. She said that ECP brakes would not have prevented the
derailment in East Palestine.
Do you agree with the Chair or do you stand by your initial claim?
Answer. I believe the Trump administration was wrong to cut
railroad safety regulations, a view that I expressed in the immediate
aftermath of the Norfolk Southern derailment and a view that I continue
to hold.
At the same time, I have gone out of my way not to assign blame for
the Norfolk Southern derailment in East Palestine. I have consistently
expressed my support for the NTSB's independent investigation, and I
have expressed my agreement with Chair Homendy's concern that
misinformation was spreading about the role of ECP brakes.
In discussing the relevance of advanced braking systems, including
the ECP braking rule withdrawn by the Trump administration in 2018, I
have not asserted that it would have prevented this particular incident
but rather have highlighted its relevance in the context of ensuring
railroading becomes safer in America.
DOT is committed to revisiting the potential for advanced braking
systems, such as ECP brakes, throughout the industry to the extent it
is shown to be feasible and beneficial. More generally, in this
administration we will continue our work to strengthen, not weaken,
railroad safety rules in America.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Lindsey Graham
Question. It was recently reported in the Wall Street Journal and
elsewhere that all of the former Administrators of the Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), spanning the previous four
presidential administrations, joined in sending you a letter raising
public safety concerns about some automakers removing AM tuners from
new model cars, particularly electric vehicles. Former and current FEMA
officials alike have noted publicly that AM stations due to their reach
and resiliency are critical to the Nation's National Public Warning
System, and removing AM reception from vehicles complicates emergency
officials' ability to communicate with the public in times of need.
Could you please provide a summary of any discussions you've had
with automakers in response to this letter from the former heads of
FEMA?
Answer. The DOT recognizes the important role that AM radio has
played and continues to play in providing people the information they
need for safety, including information about weather emergencies. The
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) is delegated
authority under the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act to
protect the public against unreasonable risk of crashes due to the
design, construction, or performance of a motor vehicle, and against
unreasonable risk of death or injury in a crash. We understand there is
legislation in Congress that would give NHTSA authority to require
automakers to equip motor vehicles with AM radios as standard
equipment. We look forward to closely reviewing the legislation and
working with Congress on this issue.
To better understand the issue, we have initiated dialogue with the
auto industry and with related industries on this important topic and
we are happy to keep you posted on those activities.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Jerry Moran
Question. In 1988, the Department of Transportation's jurisdiction
over mergers terminated, and the Department of Justice remains
responsible for enforcing antitrust laws and evaluating proposed
mergers.
As such, can you explain the jurisdictional role, if any, the
Department of Transportation has on any actions related to the proposed
Spirit-JetBlue merger?
Answer. The DOT considers a wide range of issues related to airline
mergers that fall within its jurisdiction, including international
route transfers, economic fitness, code-sharing, and possible unfair or
deceptive practices and unfair methods of competition. Regarding the
proposed merger of JetBlue and Spirit, the two carriers filed a
transfer application requesting that the DOT allow them to combine and
operate their international routes under one certificate (the
authorization required to provide air transportation). The two carriers
also filed an exemption application asking the DOT to permit them to
operate under common ownership prior to the requested transfer. In
light of the Department of Justice's pending antitrust litigation, the
DOT denied the exemption application. The DOT continues to separately
investigate the transfer as part of its statutory public interest
mandate and under its authority to enforce against unfair and deceptive
practices and unfair methods of competition.
SUBCOMMITTEE RECESS
Senator Schatz. This hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:40 a.m., Thursday, March 23, the hearing
was adjourned, and the subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene
at a time subject to the call of the Chair.]
TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DE-
VELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES AP-
PROPRIATIONS FORFISCAL YEAR 2024
----------
THURSDAY, APRIL 20, 2023
U.S. Senate,
Subcommittee of the Committee on Appropriations,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met at 10:00 a.m. p.m. in room SD-192,
Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Brian Schatz (chairman)
presiding.
Present: Senators Schatz, Murray, Coons, Van Hollen, Hyde-
Smith, and Collins.
DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT
STATEMENT OF HON. MARCIA FUDGE, SECRETARY
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR BRIAN SCHATZ
Senator Schatz. Good morning. This hearing will come to
order.
Welcome. I am glad to be back with you, Ranking Member
Hyde-Smith, as we evaluate the 2024 Budget Request for the
Department of Housing and Urban Development.
The committee's working aggressively to move forward under
regular order. I look forward to getting a top line agreement
in the next month allowing us to develop a balanced bipartisan
bill that recognizes our country's serious housing challenges.
Housing and homelessness are a top concern not only in
major cities but also in rural areas, small towns, and most
severely in tribal communities.
At the same time HUD faces serious budgetary challenges.
HUD offsetting receipts are down $7 billion from last year and
at an all-time low due to loan volume, decreasing as a result
of higher interest rates, and adding to the pressure the
renewal of HUD rental assistance requires an increase of nearly
$3 billion just to preserve existing units given rising market
rate rents.
The subcommittee has a long tradition of bipartisan
cooperation on housing issues and the preservation of HUD
rental and homeless assistance has always been the foundation
of our bill, and we've made progress in key areas.
The HUD VASH Program created by Chair Murray has cut
veterans' homelessness by nearly 55 percent since 2009 and
there are enough vouchers available to effectively end
veterans' homelessness.
The Youth Homelessness Demonstration Program created by
Vice Chair Collins has reduced the number of homeless youth by
25 percent since 2017, saving countless kids from trafficking
or worse.
Former Chairman Leahy established a Rapid Rehousing Program
for survivors of domestic violence that has helped more than
50,000 people get out of harm and into stability.
Senators Reed and Collins made great strides to strengthen
protections against lead poisoning, improving the health of
thousands of children, and a core focus of mine has been to
increase funding to historic levels for tribal communities
where overcrowding is three times the national average and the
poverty rate is double.
But this progress will end if we enact the House Majority
proposal to return to 2022 funding levels. Secretary Fudge has
outlined her concerns in a response to Vice Chair DeLauro. I
encourage my colleagues to review a copy of the letter on the
dais.
Senator Schatz. Now is not the time to slash housing
programs. We should be building more housing, building it
faster, and getting more families into the housing that they
can afford.
Amid these challenges, the Administration is proposing a
number of initiatives to ease housing burdens. I'm especially
pleased to see funding requests for the HOME Program to build
more affordable housing and the Yes in My Backyard Affordable
Housing Production Incentive Program. This program acknowledges
that the Federal Government alone cannot build its way out of
our housing crisis and that the government at multiple levels
is responsible for creating a housing shortage.
We need to create incentives for state and local
governments to legalize housing. To the extent the Federal
Government does support building, I similarly urge HUD to
remove its own barriers to new housing by streamlining
administrative procedures, improving coordination between
Federal programs and reducing costs.
My staff visited a new affordable housing development
project in Colorado that used light-tech and four different
funding streams from HUD for gap financing. That project had to
go through five different property inspections for each funding
stream, four of which were from HUD itself. This is a huge
waste of time and resources. I'm glad I see the Secretary
jotting this down, and something we can solve.
To help families afford housing, we need to ensure public
housing authorities are able to use the Section 8 vouchers that
they already have and that's why I support the President's
Budget Request to increase funding to administrative fees for
PHAs so that they can pay for security deposits and holding
fees that will get families into units faster.
Finally, we should be doing more, not less, to combat
homelessness. Last year we provided HUD $75 million for new
permanent supportive housing. I was also pleased to work with
the Secretary and Ranking Member Hyde-Smith over the last few
months to make a historic $484 million available for
unsheltered and rural homelessness.
We know the Housing First approach works, but we can do
more to connect housing and supportive services to get people
off the streets and into stable housing.
Secretary Fudge, thank you for appearing today. We look
forward to discussing these and other issues that you are
managing. I look forward to hearing your testimony, but first,
Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, I turn to you for an opening
statement.
STATEMENT OF SENATOR CINDY HYDE-SMITH
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Chairman Schatz, and thank
you, Madam Secretary, for being willing to serve and for
stepping up. Thank you for being here today.
Let me begin by thanking you for your visit to Mississippi
following the deadly and disastrous tornados that hit us in
March. We appreciate the assistance offered by HUD to help
communities and families because my state will recover from
that for a while, we're still in a desperate need, and I'm
pleased to be here this morning to discuss the Department of
Housing and Urban Development's fiscal year 2024 Budget
Request.
I want to say thank you to the Vice Chair for being here
today, as well.
But HUD plays a central but not singular role in Federal
housing and community development policy. In some cases its
programs actively partner with or supplement the work of other
Federal agencies and state and local governments.
HUD's programs also facilitate collaboration with both the
private housing market and nonprofit service providers. These
partnerships assist low-income working families, seniors, and
people with disabilities, ranging from providing houses for
those experiencing homelessness to enabling homeownership.
They also support community and economic development
activities in large urban areas as well as the small towns of
Rural America.
However, while these programs are important, they are not
immune to the broader fiscal challenges that we face as a
country. This year will require tough conversations around the
national debit and the scale of Federal spending.
As a fiscal conservative, I welcome these conversations as
we work to set a clear path for the future of this great
nation.
The budget gimmicks of the past are not a sustainable path
forward and they do not address the underlying issue of our
ballooning national debt. As challenging as the broader fiscal
issues are, the subcommittee is also starting from a
particularly different position, difficult for this year.
Federal Housing Administration, FHA, and Ginnie Mae
receipts offset the cost of our bill. The Administration
projects these offsetting receipts to be $4.9 billion lower
this year than last year.
However, this gap will likely increase even further once
the Congressional Budget Office finishes scoring the budget
request.
A $5 to $7 billion shortfall would be bad enough but this
will also be on top of the continued increases in the cost of
maintaining current rental assistance because some costs were
designated as emergency spending last year. This increase could
be as much as six billion. Combined, the subcommittee faces a
real prospect of a shortfall of a possibility of $13 billion
just to maintain fiscal 2023 program levels.
It's too early to know what our allocation will be or even
what the fiscal year 2024 spending level will look like.
However, it is clear we will need to make tough choices that
numerous proposals in the President's Budget Request may not be
accommodated.
Instead, it will be important to try to improve the
efficiency and effectiveness of the programs we fund within the
constraints we have to operate.
I look forward to working with Chairman Schatz and the rest
of my colleagues in writing the fiscal responsible HUD bill
that seeks to meet the needs of all Americans across the
country.
Secretary Fudge, once again, thank you for appearing before
this committee today, and I truly appreciate your help in
Mississippi.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Thank you, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith.
Are there members wishing to make an opening statement?
If not, Secretary Fudge, please proceed with your
testimony.
SUMMARY STATEMENT OF HON. MARCIA FUDGE
Secretary Fudge. Thank you very much.
Chairman Schatz and Ranking Member Hyde-Smith and
Distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify today in support of President Biden's
2024 Budget.
The support of this subcommittee is critical to ensuring
every American has a roof over their head and can live in
communities that are strong and resilient.
This Administration believes that everyone deserves to live
in a safe and affordable home. Whether you rent or own, having
a good home in a neighborhood with opportunities sets the
foundation for everything else in your life.
Without a home, it is harder for a person to access good
paying jobs and decent schools. It drives up costs for families
and adds to inflationary pressures. That doesn't just hurt
hard-working people. It hurts communities. A lack of affordable
housing hinders the job market and stifles economic growth.
President Biden understands in order to build an economy
that works for all, we must invest in housing to expand supply,
lower costs, improve access to rental options and
homeownership, and advance efforts to end homelessness.
As the President often says, a budget is a value statement.
The Biden-Harris Administration values building and preserving
affordable housing. We value rental affordability and housing
fairness and, most of all, we value the people of this country,
including the most vulnerable among us, and therefore we do not
believe they should feel forced to sleep on the streets or
under a park bench.
The President's budget builds on the tremendous progress
made over the last 2 years and demonstrates the Biden-Harris
Administration's unwavering commitment to protecting all
Americans, whether they live in big cities, small towns, rural
communities, or tribal nations.
President Biden is requesting $73 billion to fund HUD's
core programs and initiatives and an additional $104 billion
over the next decade to make the critical investments in
affordable housing our country needs to address our housing
affordability crisis.
The President's budget represents a modest increase over
2023-enacted levels, one that is necessary to ensure millions
of families and communities can maintain access to services
they rely on, including many of our most vulnerable citizens.
The 2024 budget provides $32 billion for housing choice
vouchers which can help an additional 180,000 low-income
individuals and families find affordable housing, $3.7 billion
to provide housing and services to individuals and families
experiencing homelessness, $3.4 billion to give communities
flexible resources they can use to create affordable housing,
improve housing choice, and expand economic development.
The President's budget includes $410 million in funding we
need to remove and mitigate the threats posed by dangerous
health hazards, like lead, carbon monoxide, radon, and fire
from homes.
It invests $752 million to support improving energy
efficiency and resilience in HUD-assisted and finance
developments and $90 million to support HUD's Fair Housing
Programs.
The President's budget supports full authorization of the
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery Program. I
have traveled to communities across this country in many of
your home states that have been devastated by disaster. Storms
and wildfires are not getting any less severe. In fact, they
are getting worse.
The Federal Government must be able to quickly and
effectively deploy resources. Full authorization of CDBG-DR
will help us get there.
Because the President values housing, his budget invests in
building up HUD's internal staffing and IT capacity, not
stripping it away. We cannot carry out our mission to end
homelessness and protect affordable housing, something I know
matters to everyone here, if we do not invest in the Federal
agency and the Federal workers who are charged with doing that
important work.
The proposed budget for HUD funds programs that help the
most vulnerable households in our country pay their rent,
people with disabilities, low-income seniors, working single
parents with children.
Our programs touch every community, every town, every
locality, but, most of all, they help people. They help
American families, families from all walks of life with all
manner of experiences who want what we all deserve, access to a
safe and stable home that meets their needs, and I would say
that I understand certainly budgetary concerns, but I would
just ask that we would prioritize what is best for the people
of this nation and not balance the budget on the backs of poor
people or seniors or homeless people.
It is important and I thank you so very much and I look
forward to your questions.
[The statement follows:]
Prepared Statement of Hon. Marcia Fudge
Chairman Schatz, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, and distinguished
Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to testify
today in support of President Biden's 2024 Budget for the Department of
Housing and Urban Development (HUD). The support of this Subcommittee
is critical to ensuring that every American has a roof over their head
and can live in communities that are strong and resilient.
This Administration believes that everyone deserves to live in a
safe and affordable home. Whether you rent or own, having a place to
live that you can afford in a neighborhood with opportunities is the
foundation for so much else in life.
A lack of quality affordable housing hinders the job market and
holds back economic growth by making it harder for workers to access
good-paying jobs. It drives up costs for families and inflationary
pressures.
That's why the President's Budget includes a historic investment to
lower housing costs, expand housing supply, improve access to
affordable rental options and homeownership, and advance efforts to end
homelessness.
HUD's mission is critical to achieving the President's vision to
build a better America--to ensure that every person has a shot to get
ahead; to address longstanding systemic challenges, including racial
injustice, rising inequality, and the climate crisis; to expand on the
historic progress our country has made over the last year and deliver
on the President's agenda laid out in his State of the Union address.
This Budget builds on the tremendous progress made over the last 2
years and demonstrates the Biden Administration's unwavering commitment
to protecting our nation's most vulnerable populations.
HUD is proposing a bold set of values and policies that prioritizes
building and preserving affordable housing, promotes rental
affordability and fairness, makes homeownership a reality for more
first-time and first-generation homebuyers, and advances efforts to
prevent evictions and end homelessness.
president biden's 2024 budget
The 2024 President's Budget requests $73.3 billion for HUD,
approximately $1.1 billion more than the 2023 enacted funding level. In
addition, it requests $104 billion over 10 years for new mandatory
affordable housing investments. Together, this suite of funding and tax
credits aims to tackle the Nation's housing affordability crisis by
making a historic investment in lowering housing costs to further the
Administration's commitment to rebuilding America from the bottom up
and middle out.
The Budget makes critical investments in the American people that
will help lay a stronger foundation for shared growth and prosperity
for generations to come.
For HUD and those it serves, the Budget provides:
--$32.7 billion for the Housing Choice Voucher (HCV) Program, to
expand assistance to an additional 50,000 low-income
individuals and families.
--$3.7 billion to provide housing and services to individuals and
families experiencing or at-risk of homelessness, including a
focus on survivors of domestic violence, dating violence,
sexual assault, stalking, and human trafficking, as well as
youth;
--$3.4 billion for the Community Development Fund and $1.8 billion
for HOME Investment Partnerships, giving communities flexible
resources crucial to creating affordable housing, improving
housing choices, and expanding economic development;
--$752 million to support energy efficiency and resilience in HUD-
assisted and financed developments;
--$410 million to remove dangerous health hazards from homes,
including mitigating threats from lead, carbon monoxide, radon
and fire;
--$90 million for Fair Housing programs along with an increase in HUD
staff fair housing capacity to redress discriminatory housing
practices; and
--$2.3 billion for Management and Administration expenses to ensure
HUD has the human capital and technology necessary to deliver
on its mission for the American people.
The President's 2024 Budget supports authorizing the Community
Development Block Grant--Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) program. For more
than twenty years, the Congress has appropriated emergency supplemental
funds to HUD in response to major disasters to address the unmet long-
term disaster recovery needs of States, territories, local governments,
and Tribes. Authorization would improve the transparency and
predictability of CDBG-DR funds for impacted communities.
At HUD, we understand that our homes represent more than four walls
and a roof. A good home can serve as a platform for economic
opportunity, good health, and strong families. How can a person hold
down a job or take care of their health or children if they do not have
a bed, shower, or stove?
To further HUD's mission through this Budget, I have outlined five
priorities:
--Support Underserved Communities and Equitable Community
Development;
--Increase Supply of and Access to Accessible, Affordable Housing;
--Promote Homeownership Opportunities and Wealth-Building;
--Advance Sustainable Communities, Climate Resilience, and
Environmental Justice; and
--Strengthen HUD's Internal Capacity to Deliver Its Mission
support underserved communities and equitable community development
The Budget fortifies support for underserved communities and
supports equitable community development for all people. To quickly
house more people experiencing housing insecurity, the Budget provides
$32.7 billion for the Housing Choice Voucher Program, an increase of
over $2.4 billion over the 2023 enacted level, to maintain services for
all currently assisted families and to expand assistance to an
additional 50,000 households. The Budget also provides $8.9 billion for
the Public Housing Fund, which provides grants to Public Housing
Authorities to operate, maintain, and make capital improvements for the
approximately 1.7 million residents of public housing. The Budget also
addresses the nation's homelessness crisis, providing $3.75 billion, an
increase of $116 million over the 2023 enacted level, for Homeless
Assistance Grants. Additionally, the Budget provides $3.3 billion for
the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) formula program, for
developing viable urban and rural communities by expanding economic
opportunities, and $90 million for fair housing programs for targeted
and coordinated enforcement, education, and outreach.
ensure access to and increase supply of affordable housing
Today, there's a shortage of almost 7 million affordable housing
units. For every 100 extremely low-income renters, there are only 33
rentals available. The Budget works to expand housing production to
help meet housing demand and to provide equitable access to housing
opportunities for all people. It provides $1.8 billion for the HOME
Investment Partnerships (HOME) Program, which has long served as an
anchor of the nation's affordable housing system. The Budget proposes
over $16 billion to fully fund renewals and amendments in Project-
Based Rental Assistance, Housing for Persons with Disabilities, and
Housing for the Elderly Programs, along with $258 million for new
development of approximately 2,200 new units of Section 202 Housing for
the Elderly and Section 811 Housing for People with Disabilities. The
Budget also proposes Ginnie Mae authority to securitize affordable
multifamily housing loans made by Housing Finance Agencies (HFAs) and
insured under the Federal Housing Administration's (FHA) Section 542(c)
Risk-Sharing program.
The Budget also proposes a new $61 million program account,
Operational Performance Evaluations and Risk Assessments (OPERA), that
will improve HUD's inspection capacity. It will streamline the funding
for financial, health, and safety inspections to over 2.4 million units
of subsidized and affordable housing across HUD. It will also increase
HUD's data analytic capabilities, which will help assess trends and
keep residents safe.
Finally, the Budget includes a $104 billion package of new
mandatory affordable housing investments that will occur over 10 years,
including $60 billion that would be administered through HUD. Together,
this suite of funding and tax credits aims to tackle the Nation's
housing affordability crisis by making a historic investment in curbing
housing cost growth, expanding housing production, and providing
resources to renters to avoid eviction and further the Administration's
commitment to rebuilding America at all levels.
promote homeownership opportunities and wealth-building
The Budget promotes homeownership and wealth-building
opportunities, including equitable access to credit for home purchases
and improvements, for underserved borrowers, including first-time, low-
to-moderate income and minority homebuyers. It provides $15 million in
credit subsidy and other expenses for an FHA Small Balance Mortgage
demonstration program that would increase access to mortgages for
lower-priced homes, for which affordably priced mortgages are currently
scarce. The Budget also provides a new $100 million set- aside under
the HOME Program for the FirstHOME Downpayment Assistance initiative
that would provide funding to States and insular areas to better
support sustainable homeownership for first-generation and/or low-
wealth first-time homebuyers. Additionally, to make homeownership more
affordable starting this year, FHA recently reduced the annual mortgage
insurance premiums for new borrowers by about one-third.
advance sustainable communities, climate resilience, and environmental
justice
The Budget advances sustainable communities by strengthening
climate resilience and energy efficiency, promoting environmental
justice, and recognizing housing's role as essential to health. It
provides $752 million in targeted climate resilience and energy
efficiency improvements in public housing, Tribal housing, multifamily-
assisted housing, and other assisted housing. As part of this funding,
the Budget provides $185 million to help communities develop and
implement locally driven comprehensive plans to transform neighborhoods
with distressed public and assisted housing. Finally, it provides $410
million to remove dangerous health hazards from homes, including
mitigating threats from lead, carbon monoxide, radon, and fire.
strengthen hud's internal capacity to deliver its mission
The Budget builds on HUD's efforts to restore staffing to levels
that can adequately and successfully deliver HUD's services. This
Administration is committed to recruiting and retaining the human
capital needed to properly monitor compliance on properties, loans,
grants, and public housing authorities, as well as tackling the
systemic issues inside the Department that occurred over the previous
two decades as the result of the steady decline in staffing. Using
workforce succession strategies, the Department intends to ensure that
additional staffing results in the right people filling the right jobs,
providing the biggest impact toward achieving HUD's priorities. The
2024 Budget requests $1.9 billion toward salaries and expenses (S&E),
$155 million more than the 2023 enacted level which, in combination
with carryover of 2023 funding, will support 8,635 full-time equivalent
(FTE) employees. The Budget will support staffing gains made since
2020, and additional increases in 2024. These critical resources will
enable the Department to serve households and communities more
effectively and efficiently across the country. The 2024 Budget funds
initiatives that comply with Federal mandates to improve the customer
experience so that program interactions are easier and more effective
and efficient for HUD customers.
The Budget also proposes $415 million for the IT Fund and includes
$12 million within the S&E topline to fund IT device expenditures
through the Working Capital Fund. The Budget continues to invest in
much needed modernization of HUD's IT systems, infrastructure, and
cybersecurity. These investments will help ensure that HUD has the
resources and capacity to meet the critical work ahead. The technology
resources support grantees and partners in their efforts to promote
affordable rental housing, provide access to homeownership
opportunities, create healthier home environments, and reduce
homelessness.
In summary, HUD's proposed Budget funds programs and offices to
further HUD's mission, which is to create strong, sustainable,
inclusive communities and quality affordable homes for all. The Budget
delivers on these commitments, and I am pleased to share this request
with the Subcommittee.
Chairman Schatz, Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, and distinguished
Members of the Subcommittee, I look forward to working with you. Thank
you for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss my
priorities for the Department and how the President's 2024 Budget will
serve our most vulnerable citizens, increase the resilience of our
communities, and tackle the challenges facing our Nation.
Senator Schatz. Thank you very much, Secretary.
I know you are preparing your first round of MB grants and
IO want to make sure of one thing. I just want to make sure
that these are grants not for planning but for the
implementation of up-zoning and the reduction in whatever
regulations are impeding the development of housing generally.
When we talked through this program both verbally but also
in the legislative process, I really wanted to avoid pushing
out a bunch of money to a bunch of consultants who would tell a
bunch of city councils what to do and I want to be reassured
that we're not doing that.
Secretary Fudge. I assure you, Senator, we are not doing
that.
We realize that it is important to go directly to these
communities and not only to talk with them about the programs,
which we have, but to assure that they do not think they're
going to get resources just because they say we'll look at it.
We want to have outcomes that are positive because we can't
afford the time to go through a lot of hoops. We need the
housing. Just quite frankly, we need to talk with people about
the issues, not just Federal issues but state and local issues,
as well, I assure you, sir.
Senator Schatz. Thank you.
And what's your timing for rollout?
Secretary Fudge. Let's see. Oh, the no-zone funding is
going to be coming out fairly soon. I don't have the date, but
I can get it to you.
Senator Schatz. Thank you.
A lot of states are using Medicaid waivers to support case
management and housing-related services. In practice, a lot of
homeless service providers are struggling with delays and
complications with billing anything that's Medicaid-related.
Having run a nonprofit before that for language translation
services and mental health services billed Medicaid, it's a
tough business, and I'm wondering what you can do to help these
homeless service providers to kind of, you know, get their
systems up and running. To have a relatively small homeless
service provider shop that is equipped on the fiscal side, on
the billing side, to deal with Medicaid is a big challenge.
I'm wondering what HUD can do to help everybody.
Secretary Fudge. Well, HUD and HHS have launched a joint
technical assistance center. So what we are doing is talking to
communities about how they go around some of the regulations
that we think are being restrictive, but, as well, provide
technical assistance as to how they can reach more people.
So I think that between Health and Human Services and HUD
we are doing a pretty good job of getting to people to talk to
them about how we work together to make sure we can provide the
services because the one thing that people are finally
connecting is that health and housing are very closely tied and
related.
Senator Schatz. Thank you.
The budget once again proposes to conduct the continuum of
care competition every 2 years instead of annually. How does
this help?
Secretary Fudge. Well, it helps because it takes hundreds
of hours annually to prepare these proposals. It would be
better spent spending money and time on the people who we serve
and the other thing it does is it gives some consistency so
they're not worried about how they're going to pay their staff
from year to year. Maybe they now know I've got staff for 2
years as opposed to one. I have resources for 2 years as
opposed to one and it encourages real confidence in the
program. So we think the outcomes will be better.
Senator Schatz. I think that's right, by the way. I think
it's really important that we do that. Having run a nonprofit,
if you're on a year-to-year grant, it's hard to hire people
because they know, you know, if you're a not-for-profit and
you're competing with, you know, the Federal Government or the
private sector in terms of getting a medical director or a
psychologist or a psychiatric nurse or whatever it is, and
they're looking at this thing thinking it's a maximum, it's
probably 30 percent less pay but on top of that it's maximum a
year gig, depending on whether we get renewed, it just doesn't
work.
The final question. I mentioned this in my opener around
the specific observations that my staff made. Four inspections
all from HUD for four different lines of funding from HUD, and
I would just like your commitment to work this and to get some
sort of standardization, and I'd like to know if there's some
statutory problem that we can fix so that we don't have the
same agency coming back at different part of the agency.
If it's a matter of Federal law, please let us know. If
it's not, please fix it.
Secretary Fudge. You have my commitment.
Senator Schatz. Thank you.
Secretary Fudge. What we know is that we do need to
standardize some things. That's one of the things we've been
working on. I think that you will be pleased by the end of this
year as we roll out more of our national standards, but I would
suggest that we are required to follow the language and
appropriations for different programs and so I was talking to
someone from Tribal.
We had a meeting with our tribal leaders last week. He
says, ``I understand environmental, but we don't have a radon
problem. Why are you making me test for radon?'' So those are
some things that we are trying to work through.
Senator Schatz. Yeah. Thank you very much.
Ranking Member Hyde-Smith.
Senator Hyde-Smith. I'll be glad to yield my time to Vice
Chairman Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Secretary Fudge, as I noted in my
opening remarks, the recent storms and tornados in Mississippi
have had a devastating effect on Rolling Forks, Silver City.
Egypt, Amery, across four counties, and many communities, and
we certainly appreciate the President's commitment to the
people of Mississippi and the FEMA assistance that is already
on the ground to make a difference and also appreciate HUD
rolling out the program waivers and its disaster response
toolbox. That is very appreciated.
Although the data on unmet needs is still coming together,
it's never too early to think about the longer-term recovery
needs of these communities and families.
The fiscal year 2023 Omnibus provided three billion in
additional CDBG-DR funding, of which 162 million remain after
taking care of earlier 2022 disasters.
Madam Secretary, what are HUD's plans for allocating the
162 million remaining from the fiscal year 2023 Omnibus?
Secretary Fudge. First, let me just say thank you for
having a conversation with me about this earlier. I appreciate
your time.
We do have $162 million remaining, but we have yet to get
all of the information and data in from the storms in Florida
and from other places. We know this $162 million is not going
to go very far. We are generally in the ballpark of $3 to $4
billion for storms for 2021 and 2022. We don't see that 2023 is
going to be any different, especially as it has started out the
way it has.
So the $162 million is more than likely going to go to
Selma, to California for the floods, and to Florida. So right
now those funds are allocated, but we will be coming to you for
an authorization as soon as we get data in from Federal
Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).
Senator Hyde-Smith. Okay. Thank you for that answer, and
I'm a firm believer in the importance of financial literacy
education, have been for many, many years when I was in the
state legislature, but while it should be taught more in
schools, these educational opportunities should be also
available to adults, as well, and I'm pleased that HUD's budget
includes funding for programs like Ross to help public housing
residents develop the skills they need to end cycles of
dependency or housing counseling to help families become
successful homeowners.
However, I am concerned that the request only level funds
for Ross and core housing counseling program and misses the
opportunity to invest more in expanding financial literacy to
more families.
While not requesting additional funding, how is the
department working to increase the availability of financial
literacy education and resources to the individuals and
families served through the HUD program?
Secretary Fudge. Well, on May 1st we're going to be
participating in a summit that addresses family self-
sufficiency. It is a program that is very successful throughout
our HUD Developments, be it public housing and, as well,
multifamily housing.
We recently launched a new asset-building cohort through
our Moving to Work. We have included resources for housing
counseling to assist with financing in particular.
So I think that we are working very diligently to give
those that we serve the opportunity to learn about financing,
to save money. We are trying to move people from public housing
into homeownership. So we are working very, very diligently to
be sure that we prepare people for better financing, better
outcomes in their lives.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you.
And when it comes to homelessness, we've talked about that
a little bit already, a lot of the attention is focused on the
large numbers of homeless individuals on the West Coast and
given the numbers, not unreasonably so, but, however, with this
attention it is easy to lose sight of the challenges of
homelessness faced by other communities, especially in rural
areas, where there are fewer shelters and supportive services
and where it's easier to under-count the number of homeless
individuals.
HUD's Point in Time count for 2022 notes that while
homelessness increased nationally by 0.3 percent from 2020 to
2022, in rural areas the increase was six percent, and while
urban homelessness is certainly a problem, is the department
equally committed to addressing homelessness in the underserved
and under-resourced areas of the country, as well?
Secretary Fudge. Absolutely. Just this week, we announced a
total of $66 million in awards that are specifically targeting
homelessness in rural areas, and we had some awards earlier in
the year, as well. So we are very, very keenly aware of the
problem in rural communities, especially because in rural
communities you find a great deal of unsheltered homelessness.
So we are directing resources to rural communities.
Senator Hyde-Smith. I'm seeing more of the encampments in
different places and, you know, there definitely is an
increase, and my time has expired.
Thank you.
Senator Schatz. Vice Chair Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Before the clock starts ticking down, I just want to thank
you and the Ranking Member for your leadership on this
subcommittee. I care deeply about this subcommittee and the
issues that you'll be handling, having been either the chairman
or the ranking member for many years, and it's great to know
that it's in such good hands with both of you. So thank you.
Secretary Fudge, let me begin with a big thank you to you.
Last year I asked you for assistance on behalf of the City of
Bangor where I live in handling an influx of unsheltered
homeless individuals and families and it led to encampments all
over the city and the city was at a loss as to how to deal with
this sudden problem.
You sent an expert team to Bangor which has worked for
months with the city and I want to report to you that just
recently they were able to take down one of the encampments on
Valley Avenue in Bangor and find homes for each of the
individuals who had been living in the encampment, a tremendous
success, and the city officials have been so pleased with the
expertise and the suggestions and recommendations that the HUD
team brought. So I truly want to thank you for that.
More recently, I've discussed with you a request from the
City of Portland which had a tremendous influx, a thousand
people since January, for example, of unsheltered individuals
and families who are asylum seekers who have come to Portland.
So they need your help, as well, and again I appreciate
your willingness to assist us.
One part, one challenge is encouraging private owners and
landlords to house these individuals who have been unsheltered.
They tend to view particularly those that are chronically
homeless as challenging tenants and I encourage them to work
with HUD, to work with local officials, but do you have any
advice from HUD on how communities not only in Maine but across
the country can engage private owners and landlords in this
process of providing homes for the unsheltered?
Secretary Fudge. Yes, and thank you so much. Our teams were
really excited about the outcomes and are already talking with
Portland.
Senator Collins. Great.
Secretary Fudge. So we're already in conversations with
their team.
We do know that getting landlords involved is a very
difficult situation, but one of the things we've found is that
for certain rental properties, if we give them a master lease,
it makes it so much easier for them to work. So that's one of
the things we're doing.
We're looking at how we can provide toolkits and resources
to explain to them why it's a good thing to be involved. We're
talking about finding incentives for landlords so that they
will lease especially to homeless, but I think that we all
understand it's a problem but we are working on it and I think
that we're doing really very well because when we sit down and
have conversations with them, then they find that we are a very
stable source of resources, that we will assist them beyond
just that one rental. So we're working and it's getting better.
It's not where we want it to be but it is getting better.
Senator Collins. Thank you.
There are two groups who find themselves homeless that
particularly concern me. One are young people who are aging out
of foster care and what I found is that in some states at age
18 you're out of the foster care system, even if you're still
in high school. That assistance is cut off. That breaks my
heart, and there are very few youth shelters. There's an
excellent one called New Beginnings in Lewiston, Maine, but
generally they don't exist, and for someone who's already gone
through a difficult situation, a young person, and thus is in
foster care, to find themselves at an arbitrary age when
they're still in school to no longer have the services of
foster care is very sad to me.
I led the creation of a youth homelessness demonstration
program and we do have family unification vouchers and we
obviously need to improve the child welfare system, but in the
absence of those improvements, I'm concerned that the budget
does not provide any funding for these families, any additional
funding for the family unification vouchers.
Instead, you're proposing a much larger mandatory program
but no new vouchers for family unification, and my question for
you on that is why isn't there funding in the budget for those
essential vouchers?
Secretary Fudge. We did just in March of this year announce
the availability of about $30 million in Foster Youth to
Independence Program. So that has already been done.
We are also--of course, your Youth Demonstration Grant has
been awarded to states across the country, as well, earlier
this year.
The President's budget does talk about youth vouchers for
2024 in the mandatory and I think that you're right. I don't
disagree with the way that you are suggesting that we might go
about it and it's something that we can talk with him about.
Senator Collins. Great. And finally, if you'll indulge me
just a quick--the second segment that I'm really concerned
about in our population is we're seeing a growing number of
older adults who are unsheltered.
The Point in Time Survey that HUD does focuses on three
groups, those under 18, those between 18 and 24, and then above
24, which is a pretty large category, and what I'm hearing is
we're seeing people who are homeless who are over age 50, who
are even over age 65, and that's a change in the composition of
the unsheltered population that really concerns me.
So aside from the current Point in Time data which really
doesn't focus on that older group as much, does HUD have
available either internally or from other Federal or state
partners more data so that we can figure out what's going on
with that older population and how to meet their needs?
Secretary Fudge. Well, it's estimated, Senator, that in
2020 those that are over 55 years of age made up 17.9 percent
of all the homeless people and those who are chronically
homeless, that 55 and older number, makes up 30 percent.
We don't have enough senior housing. We don't have enough
housing that is affordable to seniors, and we don't have enough
housing in this country where people can age in place and so
with those things, in addition to seniors being on fixed
incomes and the rents going sky high, they are being forced and
pushed to the street.
We are very, very aware of what is going on, but we know
the answer is more senior housing, more affordable housing, and
taking a look at how in this nation we can allow people to age
in place. So it's something--I was at a conference. It's
happening in other countries, too. I was at a conference in
Germany. They're having the same problem, but these are the G7
ministers that are talking. Housing is on their agenda, as
well. Same thing in Asian nations.
We're trying to find ways to keep people in their homes,
but it is acute here at this stage of the game. So I'm glad
that you're aware of it and we can talk about some ideas, but
we have some ideas that we'd like to work on.
Senator Collins. Great. Thank you very much, Madam
Secretary, and thank you for your indulgence, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Senator Van Hollen.
Senator Van Hollen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Madam Secretary, great to see you. Always welcome you in
Maryland and thanks for all that you've done for the country
and for our state of Maryland. You know well that we're facing
an affordable housing crisis in the United States and I
appreciate many of the requests and initiatives in this budget
to work to address that, including your request for an increase
in housing vouchers.
I'm in the process right now of working with Senator Young
in reintroducing a bill that we've introduced each year, each
Congress called The Family Stability and Opportunity Vouchers
Act, which is especially focused on providing opportunities for
families with young kids to move to areas of greater
opportunity, and we appreciate the provisions in your budget
that include some of the additional funding for mobility
services and the wrap-around services that are so important to
make that successful and all the data and all the studies
indicate that this can be an effective way for helping families
pull themselves out of poverty.
So I want to make sure that we focus with you and the
department on that going forward.
Also appreciate all your efforts when it comes to the
Choice Neighborhood Programs and in Baltimore City we are
continuing to deal with the legacy of systemic racism and
segregation and this program, the Choice Neighborhoods Program,
I think is an important tool to begin to address that because,
as you know, it calls for mixed use development.
One of the challenges we face as a result of segregation
and neighborhoods that have been left behind are things like
food deserts, lack of opportunity, and so one of the grants
that was recently received was a $10 million grant to something
called Perkins Homes, which is a mixed use project in Baltimore
City.
Could you just speak briefly to using this program as a
tool to try to revitalize neighborhoods?
Secretary Fudge. Choice Neighborhood Grants are
transformational. They can go up to about $35 million. They
truly transform neighborhoods and communities. We think it's an
outstanding program. We find that communities that have used
these resources have made significant changes not just in the
actual fabric of the community based upon new housing but
people feel better about it. People feel good about living in
these--most of them end up being mixed use. People very much
appreciate it and what it allows us to do is get away from the
whole idea of segregating poverty which is something that we
have done for far too long.
So they've been very, very effective. I mean, the
competition for the grants, it keeps us up at night so many
people looking to get these grants, but they're going very
well, very, very well.
Senator Van Hollen. Well, thank you for your continued
efforts in that area because we look forward to working with
you. It's been very effective in helping certain neighborhoods
in Baltimore City. We have a long way to go, make no mistake,
but it's a very important tool.
As you well know, in addition to making sure we have more
affordable housing vouchers, the supply of housing is also a
direct factor when it comes to the high cost. We need to
increase supply, including supply of middle income housing, and
one of the things I've been hearing about from a number of
Maryland constituents is concern about the backlog in the
middle income housing developments that are completing
construction and one of the impediments there has been what
they say are delays in receiving information on the approval
process for their FHA-insured multifamily loans.
We're hearing--you know, heard a little bit about this
months ago, hearing more and more about it now. Madam
Secretary, if you could just talk to that and assure me that we
can work together to address this issue.
Secretary Fudge. I assure you we did have a backlog for
some time. There's no more backlog. So they should be getting
information very, very quickly and if they're not, they should
let us know that.
Senator Van Hollen. Okay. Thank you. We may well be in
touch on that, but I appreciate your willingness to quickly
work this out. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Ranking Member Hyde-Smith.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
And, Madam Secretary, one of the core aspects of the
Section 8 Voucher Program is the public/private partnership
between PHAs and landlords, and however the success of this
program, the cornerstone of Federal rental assistance is
undercut by both the general shortage of affordable housing
that we've talked about as well as the willingness of private
landowners to participate and remain in the program and the
folks that I've talked to in Mississippi, it's not necessarily
the tenants, it's the administrative burdens of the voucher
program drive the owners and landlords to leave the program.
So I know HUD is aware of these challenges while also
balancing the need for reasonable oversight of taxpayer
dollars, but what update can you provide the committee on the
department's effort to streamline program's regulations so the
landlords will want to stay in this program?
Secretary Fudge. Senator, let me just say, and I'd say it
to everyone, we know that we over-regulate some programs and we
are working to change it, and I come from your side of the
table. So for 13 years I was the one saying you need to change
these things, but now that I'm there, we are doing our very
best to change it.
We are working with our partners, both here in the House
and the Senate. We are talking to landlords. We're talking to
our people on the ground to figure out what we can do better.
We know there are a lot of regulations. I was not aware,
Senator Schatz, of the five inspections, but we do know that
there are situations that we can correct, some we can do in-
house, some require that the Senate and/or the House take
action, and so we are isolating those things that we need to
bring to you and say can you assist us with making these
adjustments statutorily and the things that we can do, we are
trying to do, as well, because we know it is a problem.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Wonderful. And a substantial number of
HUD programs have expired authorization, as you're well aware
of, and the CDBG Home and the Lead-Based Paint Hazard Reduction
authorizations expired in 1994. The authorizations for HUD's
Public Housing, Housing for the Elderly, and Section 8 Voucher
Programs expired in 2003, while Homeless Assistance Grants
expired in 2011.
While these are only some of the unauthorized programs,
they account for 71 percent of HUD's fiscal year 2024 requests.
So what is the Administration's plans for working with
HUD's Authorization Committees this year to not just create new
programs but also to modernize its core programs?
Secretary Fudge. Well, I'm not a big fan of creating new
programs. I'll just be honest with you. I think we have a lot
of them. There are sometimes because of the way this body
operates we are required to stand up new programs, based upon
some of the funding we receive, but it's not something that we
very much like to do because it takes us a long time to stand
up a new program.
But we do know that most of our current programs do have at
least some underlying statutory authority to operate. We do
need to reauthorize some of them and we're trying to determine
which ones in priority we need to reauthorize, but we are clear
on the fact that there are some things that we need to do that
haven't been done in a very long time.
Senator Hyde-Smith. In discussing the FHA and the Ginnie
Mae receipts offsets and funding needed for the annual T-HUD
bill and the budget request, you know, anticipates the declines
that we've talked about, but however the Congressional Budget
Office February baseline estimate has these receipts at only
$3.3 billion.
The estimate was produced prior to HUD's reducing the
mortgage insurance premium which the Administration has
estimated to reduce receipts by $2.5 billion, but as the actual
dollars, the budget request anticipates offsetting receipts
will decline from $10.3 billion in 2023 to only $5.5 billion in
2024, a reduction of $4.8 billion.
So this means the final receipt amount the committee has to
use could be roughly $9.5 billion lower this year compared to
last year. So given the FHA's premium reduction was largely
offset by the Federal Reserve's long-expected rate increase
last month, what do we really get for that $2.5 billion cost?
Secretary Fudge. Let me say a couple of things. We were
going to be at a loss no matter what we did. Interest rates
have made it so that people are not buying homes. People are
not refinancing homes. So we were going to have a reduction
anyway.
What we believed because in the fund, the mortgage
insurance premium fund, is about at $142 billion, I think
that's the number, some place in that ballpark, and so we
believe that it was not appropriate to continue to charge
persons who are trying to purchase homes with those resources
when we're sitting on that kind of money. It just wasn't right,
just was not the right thing to do.
The other thing that it did was it did give some relief in
a very high interest environment, it gave some relief to low-
income borrowers and that's what we're trying to do. We're
trying to get people into homes.
But I would say that FHA is extremely--doing very, very
well. We are solvent to a point where you are asking us to keep
2 percent above. We're at an eleven percent. Ginnie Mae is
doing well. We are doing extremely well and we continue to fund
the Federal Government at rates that no other agency does.
So we just did not believe that it was the right thing to
do to continue to ask poor people and people first-time
homebuyers, first generation homebuyers to continue to bear the
burden that they should not bear.
Senator Hyde-Smith. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. Senator Coons.
Senator Coons. Thank you, Chairman Schatz, Ranking Member
Hyde-Smith.
Wonderful to be with you again, Madam Secretary.
Secretary Fudge. Thank you.
Senator Coons. Thank you for your visit to Delaware and for
your attentiveness and engagement around the ongoing challenges
we face providing safe, sanitary, affordable, decent housing to
the American people.
I am frankly thrilled that you are leading this department
at this critical time.
Secretary Fudge. Thank you.
Senator Coons. As you well know from your years of
experience in public service, the Housing Choice Voucher
Program which was just referred to by the Ranking Member is a
significant, robust, and critical tool for the department.
Senator Kramer and I have reintroduced our bipartisan bill
to expand the supply of housing by partnering with landlords,
to draw more landlords into the program, and to increase the
scope in my own community where, as you know, I was in county
government for a decade, six as the county executive. That
supply was critical.
I'd also be interested in hearing from you what initiatives
the department is taking and what we could be doing here to
increase supply because affordability of housing is directly
related to supply and in this challenging interest rate
environment, you can, should, and will make critical
investments in affordable housing programs, but we also need to
do things at the state and local level to increase supply.
I'd be interested if you could briefly speak to what
initiatives you'd like to see us taking around supply.
Secretary Fudge. There are two things, I think, that are
going to be very, very helpful.
One is if we can at least try to meet the President's
request for home resources in the budget because it would
provide us about 15,000 units of affordable housing for new
homebuyers, another 1,300 units of newly constructed
properties, and more than 6,000 units of owner-occupied or
rehabilitated properties.
But the other thing we have to do is look at all of it in
context. So we're looking at how we can either put more
resources into the Low-Income Tax Credit Program that Treasury
wants. We are looking at how we can better use housing finance
agencies to assist with low-cost loans, how we can do more work
and put more resources in the Housing Trust Fund.
It's a combination of things, but the biggest thing right
now is HOME because it's the most flexible resource----
Senator Coons. Yes.
Secretary Fudge [continuing]. We give to communities.
Senator Coons. As you may know, I'm leading the letter here
in the Senate, as you for many years did in the House, and look
forward to fighting for the Home Allocation. It was a Home and
CDBG were the two key tools I had as county executive to work
with nonprofit affordable housing providers.Monday I got to be
at a ribbon-cutting for a new affordable housing multifamily
project, small, but in one of our most challenged and burdened
neighborhoods. Be Ready, Jesus is Coming Church Community
Development Corporation, delightful, sadly recently passed
away, Pastor Lottie Lee had this vision that she would take a
whole block of dilapidated properties that were nearly falling
down and transform them into beautiful state of the art
housing. That was possible through the Federal Home Loan Bank
of Pittsburgh, an underappreciated resource, Home Dollar CDBG
dollars, and, frankly, CDS, an earmark from our congressional
delegation.
Let me talk, if I could impose on the Chairman, for two
more things.
I do want to make sure that you hear again my enthusiasm.
Combating homelessness is a lifelong passion of mine. I worked
with the National Coalition for the Homeless when I was a young
man and Delaware has made real progress in combating, nearly
ending veteran homelessness, but youth homelessness is on the
rise, and I was encouraged to see that HUD has a youth
homelessness demonstration project. I look forward to working
with you to strengthen it and to sustain it and I hope that we
can and will do more to combat youth homelessness in
particular.
Matt Heckles, your Region 3 Director, and the HUD staff in
Delaware are terrific, very engaged, and I hope on your next
visit I'll have the opportunity to join you.
REACH Riverside, as we have discussed before, is a terrific
example of the purpose-built communities model. I believe
there's two communities in the Cleveland area, Buckeye Woodhill
and Glenville, where you've seen that sort of place-based
multifactor community rebuilding program.
I am hopeful that REACH Riverside will get your attention.
I continue to work hard. It's one of my top priorities for
investment in my community.
Last thing I just wanted to mention is that I think the
Choice Neighborhoods Program is one that could use more
resources. I think it has flexibility, I think it has promise,
but I think it's under-resourced and I'd be interested in your
thoughts on how Choice Neighborhoods is moving going forward.
Secretary Fudge. Well, I agree with you, quite frankly,
that we do need more resources. I mean, I'm looking now at the
fact that Wilmington is a finalist in that last round.
Senator Coons. Yes, ma'am.
Secretary Fudge. And we're still looking--the program
obviously--the competition is still underway, but I don't know
of any community that could not use the resources of a Choice
Neighborhood.
Senator Coons. Yes.
Secretary Fudge. Certainly we don't have the resources to
give them to every community, but they are not only
transformational but they are life-changing and I think that
that's part of what we do.
Youth Homes is a problem that I think people did not
realize the gravity of it until the last few years and it is a
major issue in this country.
We talked about youth aging out of foster care. They get
out of foster care at 18 and they're on the streets, no place
to go, no resources. So we have found that the numbers of youth
homes is just continuing to rise. So we are putting resources
in the 2024 budget to deal specifically with youth aging out of
foster care.
Senator Coons. You visited Westside Center which is
building housing specifically for youth aging out of that
circumstance and I think this deserves our attention and you've
got in me an enthusiastic partner to the extent you need
authorizing help or to the extent you need any more support.
I know we have a very talented Chair and Ranking of this
subcommittee. So you probably don't need my help, but to the
extent I can be helpful I'd love to.
Thank you for what you and your very talented team to.
Secretary Fudge. I always need your help, Senator, always.
Senator Coons. Thank you very much, Madam Secretary. Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Schatz. And we always need your help, Senator
Coons. Thank you.
Senator Schatz. Ranking Member Hyde-Smith brought up a
couple of points that I thought were important.
First of all, I just want to agree with her that I
understand that the idea behind providing some relief on the
cost of a mortgage but I think it's fair to say that whatever
relief we provided, you know, sort of blows a hole in our
budget and is washed away by the Fed doing what the Fed is
doing and so I just think we ought to be real cautious about
that because I understand it averages out to about $800 worth
of savings, which is not trivial but again in the interest rate
environment in which we're operating, I think what we did was
sort of cannibalize our budget and not make enough of an impact
for it to be worth it. That's just my view.
I also want to talk about CDBG-DR. I know that Ranking
Member Hyde-Smith is anxious to kind of understand what the
remaining unallocated resources--you know, how they're spoken
for, how much is available, when money will be coming to her
home state to provide the kind of relief that is necessary, and
this is exactly the kind of thing that a permanent
authorization for DR would solve and that's why I'm pleased
that we're going to introduce another bipartisan bill to get
this thing finally done.
You know, the difficulty we had with former Senator Toomey
is that he just didn't like the principal of allowing towns to
rebuild after a disaster because he did not fundamentally think
it was a Federal responsibility and he didn't want to authorize
a new program. Fair enough, but I think the rest of us, you
know, living in the real world, when you have a disaster in
your home state or your hometown, you understand we're going to
spend this money anyway to provide disaster relief.
The question is whether or not we have a permanent
authorization to do it in an intelligent, predictable,
responsive, accountable way, and that's what a permanent
authorization of CDBGDR would do.
I'm wondering if you'd comment on that.
Secretary Fudge. You know, Senator, I was in Kentucky last
month from the major storms that hit in a very, very rural part
of Kentucky. We still have people sleeping in tents 7 months
after a storm because once FEMA goes in because they've got a
permanent authorization, they go in and do their work. By the
time we can get there, six or 7 months have passed and people
are struggling.
It doesn't make sense for us to not be able to go in and
help people quickly.
Senator Schatz. And it doesn't save a penny----
Secretary Fudge. No.
Senator Schatz [continuing]. And that's the point here.
It'd be one thing if we're having a conversation about fiscal
discipline or whatever it is, but the way to exert fiscal
discipline is to have a program, have accountability not just
to spend the money after a bunch of suffering.
We're going to spend this money, we might as well do it in
as efficient a way as possible.
Two more quick questions. I understand that FHA multifamily
approvals have dropped about 75 percent. Senator Van Hollen
mentioned that. Is that true, and are we fixing this? That
seems alarming.
Secretary Fudge. You know, let me get back to you. I don't
know that that's an accurate number, but I'm looking at my--
we'll get back with you on that because I'm not sure and I
don't want to give you----
Senator Schatz. Does that sound wrong to you? I'm looking
at your staff.
Secretary Fudge. I don't think it is accurate.
Senator Schatz. I hope it's wrong.
Secretary Fudge. But I don't want to give you a wrong
answer.
Senator Schatz. But if multifamily approvals have dropped
at any level, we need to understand why and also if we're
getting different answers from different people within FHA, we
just sort of need to understand exactly what's going on.
Finally, homelessness in tribal areas, particularly among
young people, is a major concern, and we've pushed hard to
include tribes as eligible recipients for funding for homeless
youth.
Can you execute on that without a change in Federal law?
Secretary Fudge. I do believe we can, yes.
Senator Schatz. Okay. Can you give me an update as quickly
as possible on where we are with that?
And then the final question is, you know, you said
something really important, which is a lot of Secretaries will
not admit that they over-regulate, right, but I think you have
the wisdom of having come from the Legislative Branch and also
just understanding that whatever thicket of processes and
procedures and rules and laws that you inherited is not your
fault and so you might as well be the turnaround person rather
than the defender of the status quo.
What I'd like from you, and I'll reduce this to writing,
but I don't want to over-complicate it by listing out all the
regulatory barriers, is just a general overview on what key
regulatory barriers you see and what I mean by that is
congressional act, internal procedure, rule, anything, right,
anything that is a sort of requirement, whether it's required
by Federal law or just this is the way we do it, right, and I
want you to sort out first by priority but also by category so
that we know what you're up to, how we can support it, and then
what you have identified as a problem that only we can fix.
Secretary Fudge. Okay.
Senator Schatz. And I'd like to just sort of project manage
this together so we track the things that need to change within
the agency and help you when you're doing rulemaking to
consolidate things or when you're making procedural changes
that don't require a rule under the Administrative Procedures
Act. However it is I want us to sort this and track it and I
want my staff to have a sort of shared spreadsheet, if you
will, so we can work this together because I don't think this
is a partisan question.
We just want your agency to work better and I know you do,
too.
Secretary Fudge. I welcome it. I really do, and I would
also say about tribal nations, the biggest problem we have is
infrastructure.
When you get into these rural communities, just think about
how many reservations and tribal lands we have that have no
running water, no plumbing. That should not happen in this
America.
So infrastructure is as big a problem as anything else
because until we can get that infrastructure, we can't put the
housing there that we need. I mean, you think about the fact
that Native Americans report to the military at higher rates
than--almost double any other group of people and we can't
house them. It's a problem.
Senator Schatz. And tens of thousands of Native families
with no electricity in the United States of America in 2023.
Secretary Fudge. Yes.
Senator Schatz. Thank you.
Chair Murray.
Senator Murray. Well, thank you very much, Chair Schatz and
Ranking Member Hyde-Smith, and I'm really glad to join both of
you today as we continue full steam ahead to return to regular
order and pass our funding bills in a timely bipartisan way.
I know that families back in my home state of Washington
and across the country are counting on us to work together to
get our communities the resources that they need to grow and
thrive and compete on the world stage.
When it comes to keeping folks safe, setting families up
for success, and strengthening our country, it really starts,
as you well know, with making sure that everyone has a roof
over their head and no one is left on the streets or out in the
cold because it's all too common for families in every part of
this country to be terrified about what will happen to them or
their kids the moment they can't make rent or cover their
mortgage.
My home state of Washington, like so many, have been really
grappling with our nation's housing and homelessness crisis for
years and it has gotten worse, as you well know, in this
pandemic.
I've heard from people who have no place to stay, no idea
how on earth they're ever going to afford rent or mortgage.
I've heard from parents living paycheck to paycheck. They're
scared they're going to have to skip meals or medical care to
make rent or who are really frightened their family's going to
end up on the street.
I've met with a lot of community leaders who are fighting
day and night to build more housing, make it more affordable,
and connect these folks who are experiencing homelessness with
the resources that they need.
As I wrote to President Biden, we need a whole of
government approach here and let's be clear whole of government
includes this subcommittee. That's why I fought to make
critical housing investments in our bipartisan funding package
last year and I want to see us build on that progress with
funding to tackle the root causes of this crisis and that means
increasing the supply of quality housing and preserving our
existing public housing, investing in under-resourced
neighborhoods, incentivizing changes to the zone laws, rental
assistance, assistance for first-time homebuyers.
These are investments that pay off for our country in a lot
of ways. They help families build wealth. They provide safety
and stability so our kids can focus on school and adults can
focus on their jobs and strengthen our families and our
communities and our economy.
So I really do look forward to working with the Chair and
Ranking Member on this subcommittee to make sure we have the
investments that we need to move ahead.
Secretary Fudge, thank you for being here today. I wanted
to ask you House Republicans have now proposed to cut non-
Defense discretionary programs to fiscal year 2022 levels.
Can you talk with us about how those cuts would harm HUD's
programs and your department's ability to increase the supply
of affordable housing and reduce the cost of housing and people
who are experiencing homelessness?
Secretary Fudge. Yes, thank you very much, Senator.
We do know that if we go to the 2022 levels we would lose
approximately 350,000 vouchers. We would be short well over a
billion dollars in renewing our project-based rental assistance
contracts. That would be a loss of about 87,000 affordable
units because we would not be able to meet our contract
obligations.
We would probably serve about 50,000+ people who are
homeless--we would not be able to serve about 50,000 people who
are homeless through our Continuums of Care Programs and just
think about it this way.
Things go up, you know. Rent goes up. We talked about
inflation. Prices go up. If we can't meet at least the
inflationary pressures of today, we lose out everywhere. People
can't pay their rents because we can't afford to help them pay
their rent.
So we would have to not only lose all of these things that
I just talked about, but we'd probably have a hiring freeze.
We'd probably have to lay some people off because we received
for the first time in many, many years a raise for some of our
staff last year that we would not be able to maintain.
We just can't function the way that we should because we
would not have the resources to do it.
Senator Murray. Well, I think it's really important that
everybody recognize that we have a housing and a homelessness
crisis not only in my state but across the country and everyone
should understand how serious and devastating those kinds of
cuts would be for the entire country.
So I just want everybody to absorb that. We have a problem
and we would not be addressing it if we go back to those.
Secretary Fudge. I would also say this, that we have for
decades and decades neglected public housing. We have not over
the last few years been able to give them the kind of resources
just to bring some of those properties up so that people can
live decent lives. So each year we are putting more resources
into that.
The President's 2024 budget I think requests about three
billion for capital improvements and eight billion overall and
it's not enough. We could spend that much money in New York or
L.A. What about the rest of the country?
Senator Murray. So this is a serious challenge for all of
us.
I do have additional questions. I'll submit them for the
record, but, Mr. Chairman, as I said, this subcommittee is
critical as we move forward.
So thank you.
Senator Schatz. Thank you, Chair Murray.
Thank you to all of the members. Secretary Fudge, thanks
for coming today to discuss HUD's Budget Request.
ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS
The hearing record will remain open until Friday, May 5th,
to allow members to submit additional questions for the record.
Questions Submitted by Senator Patty Murray
collaboration between hud and cms
Question. Washington state uses a Medicaid demonstration waiver to
implement the Foundational Community Supports program. This program
offers supportive housing to people on Medicaid who are struggling and
helps them get stable housing and become self-sufficient. This
collaborative approach between HUD and CMS is promising--and shows the
value of aligning housing and healthcare dollars to provide effective
solutions for people experiencing homelessness--particularly to address
chronic homelessness.
What capacity building and technical assistance is HUD providing to
support these kinds of efforts and what resources are needed to improve
this collaboration?
Answer. HUD agrees that the growing number of states that are
covering tenancy supports and other housing-related supportive services
under their Medicaid programs for people with chronic health conditions
who are transitioning from homelessness is highly promising. Many
states like Washington are still in the early stages of implementation
of these new Medicaid-financed housing-related services. For this
reason, HUD has been working with the U.S. Department of Health and
Human Services (HHS) to provide more technical assistance (TA) and
support to states to assist them to implement these new Medicaid
services and to ensure that these services are coordinated with housing
assistance.
In partnership, HUD and HHS established the Housing and Services
Resource Center (HSRC) to foster collaboration and cross-sector
partnerships in order to streamline access to services, better leverage
resources, and ultimately make community living possible for more
people. Through this partnership, HUD is in the process of working with
HHS to establish a joint TA engagement with some of the states that
have received the Medicaid 1115 waiver. The goal of this engagement is
to help states with their implementation plan and to ensure states are
addressing homelessness and/or meeting the housing needs of populations
who are at high risk of homelessness.
Additionally, in July 2021, HUD began a 3-part webinar series
titled ``Coordinating HHS Housing-Related Supports and Services with
HUD Housing Assistance.'' The second webinar, held on August 12th,
2021, focused on CMS-Medicaid Resources for Housing Supportive
Services. The webinar provided a primer on Medicaid for housing
providers, including homeless service providers and PHAs, including the
services that could be paid for without a waiver or flexibilities,
flexibilities that were provided as part of the American Rescue Plan,
and information about the Medicaid demonstration waiver.
Going forward, HUD intends to coordinate with the United States
Interagency Council on Homelessness (USICH) on the implementation of
All In: The Federal Strategic Plan to Prevent and End Homelessness,
which includes strategies to increase the use of Medicaid-funded
services for those residing in permanent supportive housing and to
increase the ability of communities to integrate data from HMIS with
other administrative data, such as Medicaid, to inform planning and
decisionmaking.
ehv program and stability vouchers
Question. HUD has included a number of flexibilities and incentives
in the Emergency Housing Voucher Program and Stability Vouchers to
expedite rehousing of people who are experiencing homelessness or at-
risk of experiencing homelessness, and increase leasing rates.
What lessons has HUD learned in implementing these programs and is
HUD considering extending any of these programmatic flexibilities to
other voucher programs in order to increase the number of people who
can use these services and improve program management?
Answer. HUD has been pleased with the success of the Emergency
Housing Voucher (EHV) program, and we believe that the program's
innovations and incentives have been important to that success.
Accordingly, HUD has taken several steps to introduce these innovations
more broadly in the Housing Choice Voucher program.
For instance, HUD expanded the uses of the HCV Program's
Administrative Fees through PIH Notice 2022-18--Use of Housing Choice
Voucher (HCV) and Mainstream Voucher Administrative Fees for Other
Expenses to Assist Families to Lease Units. Given the number of tight
and competitive rental markets around the country, the use of new
strategies is increasingly becoming necessary to help families lease
units. Building on the innovations applied in the EHV program and
elsewhere, this notice authorizes Public Housing Agencies (PHAs) to use
ongoing administrative fee funding to provide owner incentive/retention
payments, security, and utility deposit assistance, assistance with the
application or brokers' fees, holding fees, and renter's insurance if
required by the lease.
In addition, the President's budget includes a demonstration
proposal to allow PHAs to use HCV Housing Assistance Payment Funding to
assist tenants, in limited situations, with security deposits and other
leasing-related costs. Low-income families with HCVs often struggle to
identify units to lease because they have few financial resources and
are unable to pay security deposits and utility deposits. HUD proposes
appropriations language for a demonstration to allow PHAs to use a
limited amount of Housing Assistance Payments (HAP) funding to assist
HCV recipients with tenant leasing expenses such as security deposits,
utility deposits, and where the last month's rent is required upfront.
While PHAs are already allowed to use administrative fees for this
purpose, this proposal would significantly expand the pool of resources
available to PHAs to assist with such costs.
The President's Budget also includes proposals to extend certain
flexibilities that are currently available for EHVs and Veterans
Affairs Supportive Housing (VASH) vouchers to Mainstream 811, Family
Unification, and Foster Youth Initiative (FYI) program vouchers.
service providers for homelessness
Question. Front-line staff play a vital role in our efforts to
tackle homelessness--and the work that they do is tough. Supportive
service providers continue to face high rates of turnover and burnout--
and these workforce challenges impact the success of our homelessness
interventions.
How can HUD better support recruitment and retention in the
homelessness services workforce?
Answer. HUD recognizes the importance of the work that front-line
staff do for homelessness service providers across the country, and how
necessary they are to reducing homelessness. Yet, it continues to be
one of the lowest paying and least-supported jobs. Staff are also
rarely trained to handle the depth of issues they encounter from those
experiencing homelessness.
HUD can support recruitment and retention of front-line staff in
the homeless services workforce by continuing to encourage recipients
to pay higher salaries to these staff and providing resources to
support training and workforce development. HUD began this work during
the COVID-19 pandemic by allowing Emergency Solutions Grants funds
awarded through the CARES Act to pay for hazard pay and other workforce
incentives necessary to prevent, prepare for, or respond to the COVID-
19 pandemic. Additionally, in the recent Special NOFO to Address
Unsheltered and Rural Homelessness, HUD made available funds for
capacity building to recipients operating projects in rural areas,
where finding the necessary workforce was challenging even before the
pandemic.
Recently, Congress amended the statute for the Continuum of Care
(CoC) Program to allow CoC Program grant funds in rural areas to
support ``staff training, professional development, skill development,
and staff retention activities.'' Implementation will permit CoC
program recipients to use the funds to retain staff and provide
training.
The 2024 President's Budget requests that the CoC NOFO be adjusted
to a two-year cycle. This provision will allow HUD to award CoC Program
funds every other year instead of every year. Responding to an annual
NOFO requires CoCs to spend many hours implementing a local competition
process and additional time to complete the application. A two-year
NOFO process would allow CoCs to focus more on strategic planning and
performance evaluation to better prevent and end homelessness in their
communities.
Question. Should we look at ensuring services supported by Homeless
Assistance Grants keep pace with the cost of living?
Answer. Yes. Under the CoC Program there is authority to increase
the budget line items within grants that are related to housing costs
(i.e., rental assistance, leasing, and operating), but there is no
authority to increase costs related to providing supportive services or
carrying out administrative activities. As many of the grants awarded
under the CoC Program have been operating for over 10 years, recipients
are reporting that the funding they were originally awarded for
supportive services is not nearly enough to continue carrying out the
original level of services proposed in their initial grant. Providing
authority to increase funding for supportive services and
administrative costs relative to the cost of living is crucial to
helping recipients provide a high level of supportive services
necessary to assist people experiencing homelessness obtain and
maintain housing and improve their well-being.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Dianne Feinstein
veteran disability
Question. Secretary Fudge, thank you for your continued
collaboration with the Department of Veterans Affairs on the HUD-VA
Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH) program, which provides permanent
supportive housing to veterans experiencing homelessness. It is a
critical tool in the effort to end veteran homelessness. Through the
HUD-VASH program, HUD funds rental assistance through Section 8
vouchers while VA provides case management and connection to services.
HUD also sets the definition of Area Median Income (AMI) and determines
the sources of income that are used to calculate AMI. The inclusion of
veteran disability compensation in the AMI often results in veterans
who live in high cost-of-living areas, like California, earning too
much to qualify for Public Supportive Housing but earning too little to
afford market-rate rents. HUD recently determined it will continue to
include veteran disability compensation in AMI calculations, further
exacerbating the housing challenges faced by many veterans.
Secretary Fudge, please provide any statistics you have on the
number of veterans that are disqualified from public supportive housing
due to their AMI, and especially any statistics that shed light on the
number of homeless that are ineligible because they receive veterans
disability compensation.
Answer. HUD bases Area Median family income calculations, and the
income limits derived therefrom, on income data collected by the Census
Bureau through the American Community Survey (ACS). The ACS does not
ask separately about the receipt of veterans' service disability
payments. HUD does not have national data on how many veterans are not
eligible for housing assistance because service disability payments
raise their incomes above HUD Income Limits.
Question. Will you further consult with the Treasury Department on
the inclusion of veteran disability compensation in AMI calculations
and seek ways to ensure that AMI limits do not result in veterans in
high cost-of-living areas remaining homeless?
Answer. Yes, HUD is actively working with the Department of
Veterans Affairs and the Department of the Treasury to develop a
solution to ensure that all homeless veterans have access to the
affordable housing options they need.
women and homelessness
Question. Secretary Fudge, over the years HUD has formally
recognized specific subgroups in the overall homeless population who
have unique needs and characteristics, like veterans, families,
chronically unhoused, and youth. Such subpopulation designations bring
increased awareness, research, tailored programs, and specific funding
streams (i.e. youth set-asides in state homeless assistance dollars),
which have effectively reduced homelessness amongst all groups.
There is one important group that has not been added as a subgroup:
women. In 2019, the Downtown Women's Center conducted a Women's Needs
Assessment which found that roughly 41.3 percent of chronically
homeless women in Los Angeles sleep most frequently on the streets and
that these women are more likely to experience gender-based violence,
including domestic violence, dating violence, human trafficking, and
sexual assault. Living on the street only increases the probability of
further assaults and trauma. Nationally, unaccompanied women constitute
29 percent, or nearly 1-in-3 of all unhoused individual adults, for a
total of 120,015 women. As women's homelessness nationally remained
flat over the last 5 years, unaccompanied women's homelessness has
increased by 20 percent.
Secretary Fudge, why doesn't HUD recognize unaccompanied women as a
subgroup?
Answer. Homelessness is a tragedy for anyone and we have seen the
unique challenges that arise for women experiencing homelessness. In
2019, the California Policy Lab published Health Conditions Among
Unsheltered Adults in the U.S., a study that looked at the health
conditions of people in both sheltered and unsheltered situations. One
of the key findings was: ``Health and behavioral healthcare needs, and
experiences of abuse and trauma, are major factors in loss of housing
among unsheltered people, most especially for unsheltered women.'' This
reality that women are uniquely impacted by their homeless experience
is important.
Under the Biden Administration, there has been a significant drive
to understand the impact of housing and homelessness on women. HUD
routinely collects and reports data on women experiencing homelessness,
and HUD recently worked with a variety of partners in a technical
assistance effort, including people with lived homeless experience,
advocates, researchers, and communities, to update how data is
collected on gender. HUD is working with other national partners,
including other Federal agencies, to improve access to services and
programs when there is gender-based violence. Additionally, HUD is
enforcing housing protections under the Violence Against Women Act, to
help ensure that women who are gender-based violence survivors are not
denied housing nor lose their housing because of the violence committed
against them.
HUD works with Continuums of Care and other partners to address the
unique needs and characteristics of different populations in a number
of ways. Programs specifically targeted to Youth, Veterans, and
survivors of Domestic Violence, Sexual Assault, and Human Trafficking
are authorized by statute and receive dedicated technical assistance.
In these and all of our other programs, HUD provides tools and ongoing
technical assistance to support grantees in delivering services
equitably and in accordance with the Fair Housing Act and other civil
rights laws. HUD is committed to continue to work with the United
States Interagency Council on Homelessness and other partners to
appropriately lift up the needs of women experiencing homelessness and
to support efforts to design solutions that meet their unique needs and
characteristics and advance equity.
documentation
Question. Secretary Fudge, as you know possession of a social
security card is critical to helping individuals who are homeless, and
lack of proper identification is detrimental to securing placement in a
permanent supportive housing program. For low-income or homeless
individuals who have lost their documents, identification requirements
create a difficult barrier and can lead to delays or even missed
opportunities. Some homeless individuals find it difficult to get
replacement social security cards or other documentation from the
Social Security Administration (SSA).
Secretary Fudge, do you recognize the lack of documentation for
homeless individuals as a problem and what are you doing to address it?
Answer. HUD is doing all it can to make it easier to serve people
experiencing homelessness with minimal documentation. For instance,
HUD's Continuum of Care Program does not require people experiencing
homelessness to provide identification to receive housing. However, HUD
is also aware that communities are partnering with many organizations
to address homelessness and some of the other entities do require that
kind of documentation. HUD is working with partners to find solutions
to ease the effort of documentation. This includes considering waivers
for communities where needed. HUD is in current conversations with SSA
to evaluate challenges and explore potential solutions to reduce the
burden of data collection.
los angeles's inside safe initiative
Question. Secretary Fudge, as you know Los Angeles Mayor Karen Bass
declared a local emergency for homelessness and initiated a program
called Inside Safe to promote long-term housing stability. The
initiative has already cleaned up street encampments and provided
housing for more than 4,000 individuals, but much work remains to be
done.
Secretary Fudge, will you commit to working with Mayor Bass and the
City of Los Angeles on the Inside Safe initiative? What resources, if
any, does HUD need to assist the City of Los Angeles and ensure that
Inside Safe is successful?
Answer. HUD has been working with Los Angeles to understand its
challenges and provide support. HUD has provided comprehensive
technical assistance to the Continuum of Care (CoC), which is working
closely with the city. HUD convenes a regular call with the CoC, PHAs,
City, and County to discuss solutions to barriers to housing people in
Los Angeles. HUD provided technical assistance to the CoC as it worked
through the wind-down of Project Roomkey. Many of those lessons learned
are directly applicable to the Inside Safe initiative. HUD is ready and
willing to assist the City of Los Angeles and the CoC in their efforts
to safely address the shelter and housing needs identified through
Inside Safe and other efforts in Los Angeles through more integrated
multi-part TA. We would also note that HUD proposed an increase to TA
in the FY2024 President's Budget, which will allow us to offer more
robust support in place-based engagements similar to those taking place
in Los Angeles.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Joe Manchin
homeless families and children
Question. As you know, there are competing Federal definitions of
``homeless.'' According to HUD, homelessness has substantially declined
in West Virginia. However, during the 2021 school year, the West
Virginia Department of Education identified more than 9,500 students
who experienced homelessness. Families and children who stay
temporarily with other people, or in motels, due lack of permanent
housing are considered ``homeless'' by the U.S. Department of Education
(DOEd), but not by HUD.
How does this budget request specifically support children
experiencing homelessness?
Answer. HUD believes no one should experience homelessness,
especially children. The homeless education data reported by the
Department of Education (ED) differ from the data reported by HUD in
several ways. One example is ED utilizes State Education Agency (SEA)
data that includes children and youth sharing the housing of other
people due to loss of housing, economic hardship, or a similar reason
(often referred to as living in ``doubled-up'' arrangements or ``couch-
surfing''). The HUD definition of homeless does not include people in
doubled-up or couch-surfing arrangements; as such, this population is
not represented in HMIS data. Additionally, SEA data includes children
staying in hotels or motels due to the lack of alternate, adequate
accommodations. HMIS data includes people staying in hotels or motels
only if those accommodations are subsidized through a homeless
assistance program.
In the 2020 Annual Homelessness Assessment Report (AHAR) Part 2, in
which estimates are for the 2019 reporting year (October 1, 2018--
September 30, 2019) and the 2020 reporting year (October 1, 2019--
September 30, 2020), HUD reported on unaccompanied youth served
throughout the year by Continuums of Care (CoCs) for the first time.
This information is critical to helping HUD and communities better
understand homelessness, create strategies to prevent it, and,
ultimately, to end it. The AHAR reported that in 2019 there were
120,866 unaccompanied youth and in 2020 there were 93,404 unaccompanied
youth served in shelters. ED's data from the 2018-19 school year
reported 125,729 homeless students and 112,822 homeless students in the
2019-20 school years. Despite the differences in how the data is
reported, these datasets tell a joint picture that children and youth
experiencing homelessness are being identified and served through our
respective efforts.
HUD has worked with communities to make great progress over the
last several years and saw a decline in homeless families with children
of roughly 5 percent each year culminating in a 36 percent reduction
between 2010 and 2022. This outcome was a result of HUD's incentives
that encouraged communities to adopt more effective practices and
better coordination with partner agencies to better identify and serve
children and youth as well as the targeted funding through the Youth
Homeless Demonstration Program (YHDP) grants.
HUD has been awarding YHDP grants since 2016. Those grants have
facilitated greater coordination at the Federal and local level. HUD
works with partner agencies in ED and the Department of Health and
Human Services (HHS) to ensure that we are learning all that we can
from these programs and promulgating best practices and working towards
better coordination across the homeless response and other children and
youth service systems. Most importantly, HUD is centering the voices of
children and youth in this process. Youth who have experienced or are
currently experiencing homelessness help shape the YHDP application
process from priorities to actual application reviews. Every applicant
is required to get approval for their projects from a local Youth
Action Board made up of young people who have experienced homelessness.
This current budget request continues this momentum by supporting
communities through the Continuum of Care Program and funding
additional YHDP grants.
HUD is also working closely with other agencies to coordinate
Federal resources. For example, HUD and HHS sent a joint message to
communities in May 2023 to promote newly released funding for
communities and organizations to build and expand housing and services
for youth experiencing homelessness or housing instability.
Question. Can you describe how HUD will work with other agencies,
like DOEd and the Administration for Children and Families, to ensure
we are providing the best services possible to children and youth
experiencing homelessness?
Answer. As described above, HUD is collaborating with its partner
agencies to find ways to best serve children and youth. HUD is
committed to working together and to sharing best practices with our
respective recipients. As recently as May 22, 2023, HUD, HHS's Family
and Youth Services Bureau (FYSB), and HHS's Administration for Children
and Families (ACF) issued a joint message to promote newly released
funding opportunities for communities and organizations to build and
expand housing and services for youth experiencing homelessness or
housing instability. This joint communication highlights HUD, FYSB, and
HHS's Children's Bureau's shared belief in the importance of
coordination and collaboration efforts across Federal, state, and local
partners. Additionally, HUD is committed to providing technical
assistance resources to ensure that recipients of HUD grants are aware
of best practices in serving children and youth experiencing
homelessness and that eligibility for HUD programs is clear and no
child or youth experiencing homelessness is turned away from services
due to confusion over the various definitions of homelessness.
housing supply
Question. While overall inflation has dropped to its lowest level
since May 2021, it is still frustratingly high and amounts to a tax on
West Virginians that they notice every day. According to the Consumer
Price Index (CPI), housing is the single largest contributor to
inflation right now, offsetting the progress made in reducing prices
across other sectors.
What steps is HUD taking to increase housing supply and
construction?
Answer. The Department is committed to expanding the supply of
high-quality affordable housing to meet the needs of households and
communities nationwide. As an important component of the Biden-Harris
Administration's Housing Supply Action plan, HUD has taken, or is
exploring, numerous steps to increase the supply of affordable housing
through the use of its programs. This includes:
--Restarting the Federal Finance Bank's Risk Sharing program, which
provides low-interest loans to state and local housing finance
agencies.
--Directing federally held housing supply to owner-occupants and
mission-driven entities instead of large investors.
--Making it easier to finance new units and helping manufacturers
update their designs to meet changing consumer demands: This
includes working to increase the usability of FHA's Title I
loan program for Manufactured Housing, supporting greater
securitization of Title I loans through Ginnie Mae's platform,
updating the HUD Code to allow manufacturers to modernize and
expand their production lines, and helping manufacturers
respond to supply chain issues.
--Enhancing the FHA 203(k) renovation loan program to increase its
usefulness in renovating single family homes to restore them to
productive use in communities across the country.
--HUD will launch the $85 million Pathways to Removing Obstacles to
Housing (PRO Housing) competition soon, which supports
communities that are actively taking steps to remove barriers
to affordable housing caused by burdensome regulations or
procedures, gaps in available resources for development,
deteriorating or inadequate housing-related infrastructure, or
increasing threats from natural hazards.
--Revising FHA's underwriting policies to permit the inclusion of
current or prospective rental income from accessory dwelling
units in an applicant's income when underwriting a borrower
seeking FHA-insured mortgage financing, which will both
increase the supply of ADUs and help more households access
homeownership and build wealth.
--Treasury and HUD jointly published a `how to' guide to help
governments use American Rescue Plan funds with other sources
of Federal funding. Governments have committed billions of
their State and Local Fiscal Recovery Funds (SLFRF) resources
for affordable housing development.
--HUD has pledged to pursue rulemaking to streamline the HOME
Investment Partnerships program, which is a critical resource
for the creation of affordable rental housing and
homeownership.
--The Thriving Communities Technical Assistance program, funded in
FY22 with $5 million, is designed to support coordination and
integration of transportation and housing in infrastructure
planning and implementation. HUD is currently accepting
requests for technical assistance from local governments.
--HUD has supported the Administration's Housing Supply Action Plan
through a number of actions, including programmatic
enhancements intended to increase multifamily housing
development, changes to FHA asset disposition programs to
direct homeownership assets to owner-occupant purchasers, and
policy changes to facilitate the construction and financing of
alternative housing such as manufactured homes and accessory
dwelling units. HUD also supported the Plan by significantly
updating key program guidance and trainings; these include an
updated ``Use of Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) Funds
in Support of Housing'' program Notice, the new ``Increasing
the Supply of Affordable Housing'' technical assistance website
and Affordable Housing Supply Toolkit, the Barriers to
Affordable Housing Webinar Series, and several other technical
assistance and program guidance products.
--HUD will also launch the $225 million Preservation and Reinvestment
for Community Enhancement (CDBG-PRICE) competition soon, which
will preserve and revitalize manufactured housing communities
through infrastructure, planning, resident and community
services (including relocation assistance and eviction
prevention), resiliency activities, and other assistance to
residents or owners of manufactured homes.
Question. What steps could Congress take to increase all forms of
housing supply?
Answer. There are numerous steps that Congress could take to
increase the supply of housing. The President's fiscal year 2024 Budget
included several legislative and funding proposals that would
contribute to increased housing supply through HUD programs. These
include:
--Mandatory funding for new project-based rental assistance contracts
to increase the development of affordable rental and owner-
occupied housing and to incentivize jurisdictions to remove
barriers to affordable housing developments;
--Modernization of the FHA 203(k) renovation loan program;
--Modernization and enhancement of the FHA Title I Manufactured
Housing and Property Improvement programs;
--Preservation of PBRA rental units when transferring to higher-
opportunity locations;
--Support the President's Budget request for an increase in the
funding of the Federal government's largest affordable housing
production grant program, the HOME Investment Partnerships
Program;
--Re-baselining of basic statutory mortgage limits for FHA
Multifamily programs;
--Authorizing Ginnie Mae securitization of Housing Finance Agency
Risk Sharing loans;
--Increase loan guarantee authority for the Section 108 Loan
Guarantee program so that jurisdictions can request low cost,
federally guaranteed financing for housing, infrastructure and
economic development activities, and authority for HUD to
finance the construction of new housing units in mixed-use
development projects; and
--Expand and improve the Low-Income Housing Tax Credit; create a new
Neighborhood Homes Tax Credit to develop and renovate 1-4 unit
housing in distressed urban, suburban, and rural neighborhoods.
Also, Congress should fully support the Housing Supply Action Plan
and the President's 2024 Budget, including reauthorization and
legislative reform for the HOME program. We would be happy to discuss
any or all of these proposals and would welcome your support for them.
national debt limit
Question. As you may know, the Federal government is teetering on
the edge of financial disaster. We are on the brink of breaching the
debt limit, we are accumulating debt at an historic pace, and we are
consistently encouraging reckless and wasteful spending driven in large
part by a budget system that is broken. While we have a long way to go,
I am encouraged that HUD's FY24 discretionary budget request is roughly
1.6 percent more than FY23-enacted levels. I appreciate your effort to
restrain spending increases, and hope other departments and agencies
will follow suit.
To accomplish the necessary reductions to our national debt and to
reign in reckless spending, we will need an all-hands-on-deck approach
across the government. Can you and the Department commit to working
with the Committee on finding ways to get our fiscal house in order,
while ensuring that essential programs, such as for homelessness and
affordable housing, are sufficiently funded?
Answer. This Administration is committed to fiscal responsibility
and HUD strives to maximize the use and efficiency of taxpayer dollars.
The Budget request reflects this while also accomplishing key goals
like increasing the supply of affordable housing and expanding the
number of vouchers available for those in need.
In recent testimony to the House Appropriations Subcommittee, the
Inspector General noted HUD has made significant strides in improving
financial management. The agency has received clean audit opinions for
three consecutive years. HUD continues to strengthen controls around
its business processes in real-time, as possible, and has a number of
formal mechanisms to address and mitigate risks in our operations.
The President's Budget includes several proposals designed to
improve HUD's efficiency and effectiveness. These include centralizing
funding for inspections, strengthening risk management along with
deploying current technologies, and enhanced business processes across
our operations that would allow the agency to be agile in its
responsiveness and a strong financial steward of public funds.
state housing finance agencies and performance-based contract
administrators
Question. State Housing Finance Agencies (HFAs) have historically
played an important role as Performance-Based Contract Administrators
(PBCAs) overseeing our nation's affordable housing projects funded
through the Project-Based Rental Assistance (PBRA) program. As you
know, PBRA provides critical affordable housing stock to low-income
families across the country. There is concern that HUD could shift PBCA
responsibility from state HFAs to regional authorities. This would harm
states like West Virginia that have very specific needs best addressed
by dedicated HFAs that understand the state. I am encouraged that HUD's
FY24 Budget Request recognizes the important role of state HFAs in the
PBRA program. However, I am concerned that HUD has left the door ajar
for an eventual shift to a regional approach to administration.
Could you explain how this Committee can ensure that State Housing
Finance Agencies are able to continue vitally serving their communities
and the Department as Performance-Based Contract Administrators?
Answer. Existing PBCA contracts across the country are expiring,
with contract extension periods running out within the next year. Due
to the court's decision in CMA Contract Management Services et al. v.
United States, HUD cannot extend the existing contracts beyond the
limited number of short-term extensions remaining. Instead, absent
legislative changes by Congress, HUD will need to procure contractors
through a CICA/FAR compliant process that would not meet the needs of
HUD, states, or PHAs. The only way to continue with a system similar to
the current one is for Congress to provide legislation exempting HUD
from the CICA/FAR process. HUD's proposal in the President's Budget
reflects the extensive feedback received from many stakeholders,
including bipartisan comments from members of Congress regarding HUD's
proposed language. In addition to individual conversations, HUD
recently held a group listening session with stakeholders to hear
comments on the proposal. HUD would welcome the opportunity to work
with the Committee on a legislative solution to resolve the PBCA issue.
proposed rule changes for the home investment partnerships program
Question. The HOME Investment Partnerships Program is HUD's
flagship program, and the only Federal block grant, dedicated
exclusively to producing affordable housing. HOME is also one of the
main tools in providing Federal assistance to West Virginians. Housing
agencies have indicated, however, that the regulations and conditions
can be burdensome, which restricts the impact HOME funds can have. I
understand HUD is developing new rules and regulations for the HOME
program.
How does HOME--and the upcoming proposed rule changes--play into
the Administration's strategy to address the affordable housing crisis?
Answer. The HOME program reform is a key deliverable of the
President's Housing Supply Action Plan. HOME is a critical resource for
acquisition, rehabilitation, or construction of affordable rental and
homeownership housing in communities across the country. For many
localities, HOME is the only affordable housing resource available to
them to address their affordable housing needs and priorities.
The HOME program was authorized by Title II of the Cranston-
Gonzalez National Affordable Housing Act of 1990. The Housing and
Community Development Act of 1992 made changes to the HOME statute to
streamline the program and has been the only reauthorization of the
program. Despite the many innovations in affordable housing financing,
the HOME statute has not been significantly changed in 31 years.
The HOME statute itself helps create significant complexity for
States and localities administering the HOME program because it is very
detailed and prescriptive. The HOME program regulations must then
implement these statutory requirements, so HUD is limited in its
ability to substantially reform the program through rulemaking alone.
HUD is currently developing a HOME proposed rule that, within these
statutory confines, will identify unexercised flexibilities and help to
streamline and modernize the program. The Department believes that
modernization and streamlining of the HOME statute is necessary to
ensure that HOME funds can be used more effectively in newer affordable
housing delivery models and seamlessly with other public and private
financing.
Question. Can you provide the Committee with an update on where HUD
is in this process of updating relevant rules and the impact they will
have on states like West Virginia?
Answer. The Department is currently developing the proposed HOME
program rule. HUD cannot discuss the content of the rule before it is
transmitted to the Hill for review before publication. As part of the
rule development process, HUD is carefully considering the unique
challenges faced by States as they address affordable housing needs in
rural areas.
legal conservatorship of fannie mae and freddie mac
Question. Since the Global Financial Crisis, Fannie Mae and Freddie
Mac have been in a legal conservatorship of the U.S. government. These
government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) purchase mortgages on the
secondary market, providing certainty and liquidity for the housing
market. This legal conservatorship was intended to be a temporary
measure to shore up confidence in the housing industry and to allow the
GSEs to build up sufficient capital to prevent another subprime
mortgage loan crisis. Despite the conservatorship succeeding in its two
goals, subsequent administrations have never addressed the
conservatorship's future.
Has the Administration taken any position on the conservatorship?
Answer. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are in their fourteenth year of
conservatorship, and the Congress has not yet enacted legislation to
define the GSEs' long-term role in the housing finance system. As noted
in the 2024 Budget, the Administration is committed to housing finance
policy that increases the supply of housing that is affordable for low-
and moderate-income households, expands fair and equitable access to
homeownership and affordable rental opportunities, protects taxpayers,
and promotes financial stability. The Administration has a key role in
shaping, and a key interest in the outcome of, housing finance reform,
and stands ready to work with the Congress in support of these goals.
Additional questions would be best directed to the entities with direct
authority over the conservatorship.
Question. Will you commit to working with Treasury to provide the
Committee with information on policy options the Administration, or
Congress, could consider?
Answer. HUD will gladly assist in any way it can in providing
information or input as requested.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Shelley Moore Capito
economically distressed rural counties
Question. In economically distressed rural counties, HUD programs
are not always targeted well, because of the way that HUD measures
incomes and deem eligibility. In these counties, where we find a
concentration of low-income Americans, the area median incomes that HUD
and other agencies use to set eligibility for their programs are very
low because so many people in those counties are struggling to make
ends meet. HUD collects and calculates this income data, and uses it to
set program eligibility limits. Other agencies use these limits, like
USDA, for their own programs.
As far back as 2016, USDA recognized there was a problem with how
low the HUD-produced income limits were in some rural places, and
instituted something called income banding to try and make the limits
work better. Americans seeking services in some rural communities in WV
are told that they don't qualify as low-income, even though their
family of four is living on $48,000 a year. But just over the border in
neighboring rural Ohio, the same family would qualify as low-income
easily.
How long has HUD been aware of this problem?
Answer. HUD's area Median Family Income calculations and the
associated Income Limits are calculated in accordance with statute and
are designed to designate the same proportion of households as eligible
based on metropolitan area and non-metropolitan county estimates of
median family income. In each state, HUD sets a floor on income limits
derived from the median family income across all the nonmetropolitan
counties of the state. In the case of West Virginia, there are counties
where a family of four living on $48,000 per year is not considered to
be low-income but that same family would be considered low-income in
Ohio because of the relative levels of income in the two states. The
area Median Family Income across non-metropolitan counties in West
Virginia in HUD's FY 2023 income limits was $64,200. In Ohio, the
commensurate measure of area Median Family Income is $79,500.
Consequently, the lowest county-level low-income limit in West Virginia
is $50,250 whereas in Ohio it is $62,700.
Available data show that there is an urgent need for affordable
housing and housing assistance throughout the country, across all types
of communities. HUD tracks the share of households eligible for
assistance through its Comprehensive Housing Affordability Strategy
Data. These data are special tabulations of American Community Survey
Data which apply HUD's Income Limits to Census tabulations to show both
owner and renter populations by HUD's Income Limit categories. The most
recent data shows that 27 percent of households in West Virginia would
be considered very low income by HUD, while in Ohio the figure is 26
percent. The average household income for a family receiving rental
assistance from HUD is $16,000, well below the income limits in even
the lowest income states. In West Virginia, the average household
income for a family receiving rental assistance from HUD is $12,516; in
Ohio, the same figure is $12,163.
Question. What is HUD doing to ensure rural Americans in
economically distressed communities do not have issues with
unreasonably low-income limits?
Answer. Within the calculation of Income Limits, HUD applies a
``state non-metropolitan median family income adjustment'' which raises
the 4-person Very Low-Income limit to be equal to 50 percent of the
area Median Family Income calculated across all non-metropolitan
counties in a state. For FY 2022 this means that any area in West
Virginia where the actual area Median Family Income would generate a 4-
Person Very-Low Income limit less than $29,650, the calculated Median
Family Income is raised to $29,650, subject to HUD's annual limits on
income limit increases and decreases.
HUD notes that the greatest barrier to a family receiving needed
housing assistance is the limited available funding for that
assistance. The Department remains committed to working with Congress
on solutions to the nation's urgent need for affordable housing.
Question. Will HUD work with my office to provide technical
assistance on legislation to revise the state floor to be extended to
include a national floor?
Answer. HUD regularly works with members of the House and Senate on
technical drafting service (TDS) requests. We would be happy to provide
our data and research expertise through the TDS process.
impact of area median income calculations
Question. Last year's Appropriations bill included report language
that directs HUD to report on the impacts of using new proposed Area
Median Income (AMI) calculations to account for poorer, rural states
which lower Area Media Income calculations statewide in turn lessening
the eligibility of certain areas to receive Federal assistance for
housing. In urban areas, 30.4 percent of the population qualifies as
``low-income'' whereas in rural areas only 16.3 percent of the
population does.
Has HUD begun working on this report?
Answer. Yes, HUD has begun working on the report. The report will
be based on the recently released FY 2023 Income limits, which were
delayed this year due to anomalies in Census data caused by the
pandemic. HUD is in the process of quantifying the increase in rent for
low-income households that would result from raising income limits in
the lowest income states.
Question. If so, where is HUD in the process of compiling this
report?
Answer. HUD is still in the analysis phase of compiling information
to provide in the report. As part of compiling the necessary data, HUD
notes that by setting income limits based on local estimates of median
family income, HUD ensures that similar shares of households are
classified as low-income regardless of the area's state median family
income. Nationally, about 27 percent of households are classified as
very low-income based on HUD's income limits in 2019, the latest year
for which data are available. This figure is the same for both
metropolitan and non-metropolitan counties. The share is also 27
percent for both counties served by the Appalachian Regional Commission
and non-Appalachian counties.
hud economic development initiatives (edis) cds projects in west
virginia
Question. Prior to the hearing, my office received an update on
FY22 and 23 HUD Economic Development Initiatives (EDIs) CDS projects in
West Virginia. Thank you very much for compiling and sharing that
information. I am concerned about the lack of funding that has been
awarded, in particular the FY22 projects. I understand it is a
difficult account that lacks a direct purpose and authorization unlike
other CDS accounts.
Will HUD continue to work with my office to keep us informed of
when funding is being released to recipients in the state?
Answer. Yes, HUD is committed to keeping your office informed
regarding Community Project Funds/Congressional Directed Spending (CPF/
CDS) awards in West Virginia. Through the Department's Office of the
Chief Financial Officer, Appropriations Liaison Division, the program
provides the Senate Appropriations Committee reports of executed CPF/
CDS grant agreements on a regular basis. Please reach out to HUD's
Office of Congressional and Intergovernmental Relations if you have
questions for HUD's Office of Economic Development regarding the status
of pending CPF/CDS awards for West Virginia. Thank you for the
opportunity to keep you updated regarding how these projects are
creating economic opportunities within your state.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator Jerry Moran
Question. Secretary Fudge, as companies work to serve the Ginnie
and FHA markets, would you agree that it is important for Ginnie, FHA
and HUD to provide clear and consistent guidelines in terms of when an
institution should qualify to be approved as well as clarify with
companies why they may have fallen short of HUDs standards?
Answer. HUD agrees that it is important to provide clear and
consistent approval guidelines for FHA and Ginnie Mae. Both agencies
provide extensive information regarding eligibility guidelines and
approval requirements and offer clear explanations in instances in
which requests for approval are denied. If you are aware of specific
instances in which this has not occurred, please let us know so that we
can investigate further.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator John Hoeven
herschel lashkowitz tower
Question. We have been working with the City of Fargo and the Fargo
Public Housing Authority to secure funding to demolish and redevelop a
HUD housing facility called the Herschel Lashkowitz Tower. The
Lashkowitz tower was built over 50 years ago by the Federal government,
and has 200 residential units, making it the largest residential
building in North Dakota. However, the building is badly outdated and
needs to be replaced. Last November, the North Dakota Industrial
Commission (NDIC) awarded $3.4 million in Federal funding for this
project, which was made available under HUD's Housing Trust Fund, which
provides funding to states for affordable housing development. At the
same time, we have been working to secure additional funding for
asbestos mitigation and clean-up through the Environmental Protection
Agency's Brownfields Cleanup Grants program. The grants are expected to
be awarded in the coming weeks, and I want to once again express the
importance of this project for low-income families in the Fargo area.
Will you and your team continue to work with my office and state
and local officials to move this project forward?
Answer. Yes, HUD will continue to work with all parties.
public housing authorities in rural areas
Question. North Dakota has 32 Public Housing Authorities serving
29,000 North Dakotans in 12,000 households. As North Dakota is a very
rural state, some of our Housing Authorities serve areas over 7,000
square miles large.
What type of assistance does HUD provide for Public Housing
Authorities located in rural areas to help with capacity building,
technical assistance, and training?
Answer. The Office of Field Operations has contracted technical
assistance and training that can be provided to PHAs on topics ranging
from increasing public housing occupancy, improving physical
conditions, PHA governance and HCV utilization. If a PHA requests or a
field office sees a need, technical assistance can also be tailored to
fit a PHA's needs.
An example of TA provided previously is:
--In 2022, Rolette, North Central (Ramsey), and Towner PHAs, each
received technical assistance from HUD's Denver Field Office
through a Multi-Agency Support Contract. These PHAs received
five half-day training sessions on assorted topics followed by
bi-weekly or monthly one-on-one sessions with each PHA. The
assistance was aimed at offering training and technical support
across various program areas including both Housing Choice
Voucher and Public Housing.
--Fargo Housing and Redevelopment Authority (FHRA) also received
direct technical assistance through a Support Contract to
assist the PHA with agency capacity and struggling occupancy,
and to develop a strategy to manage an aging public housing
stock. The Denver Field Office assisted the (FHRA) with a
disposition action of the Lashkowitz Tower property in early
2020. In July 2022, after many discussions with HUD subject
matter experts, FHRA modified their application to include
demolition due to pervasive amounts of asbestos and other
hazardous materials.
--All North Dakota PHAs have been regularly attending the MAP Network
quarterly Program Update Calls, which serve as a platform for
exchanging information and receiving guidance. These calls
ensure that the PHAs stay updated on important program
developments.
--Overall, the Denver Field Office has been actively engaged in
providing technical assistance and training opportunities to
the PHAs in North Dakota. Each PHA in North Dakota is assigned
a Portfolio Management Specialist, an Engineer, and a Financial
Analyst from HUD's Denver Field Office. This team is
responsible for monitoring, coaching, and communicating with
each of the PHAs in North Dakota, establishing touchpoints on a
regular basis, often weekly if not monthly. These communication
channels serve as crucial opportunities for PHAs to interact
directly with their partners at HUD, enabling them to ask
critical questions, seek feedback, and gain valuable knowledge.
By engaging in this ongoing dialogue, PHAs in North Dakota can
stay informed about the latest updates, policies, and best
practices, ensuring a collaborative and supportive relationship
between the PHAs and HUD. This consistent communication further
strengthens the partnership, fosters a mutual understanding,
and enhances the PHAs' ability to effectively serve their
communities and fulfill their stated mission.
housing and urban development veterans affairs supportive housing
(hud-vash)
Question. Housing and Urban Development Veterans Affairs Supportive
Housing (HUD-VASH) is an important program that combines HUD's Housing
Choice Voucher rental assistance with VA's case management and clinical
services in order to assist veterans experiencing homelessness. The
fiscal year 2024 budget request did not include new funding for this
program because previously appropriated funds remain available.
Why haven't previously appropriated funds been expended?
Answer. HUD continues to make all appropriated HUD-VASH funds
available under the HUD-VASH registration of interest notice process,
which allows PHAs and partnering Veteran Affairs Medical Centers
(VAMCs) the opportunity to self-identify interest in receiving
vouchers. In 2023, HUD is giving PHAs two separate opportunities to
register interest for all available HUD-VASH vouchers and funding--the
first of these, Notice PIH 2023-09, was published in April.
During the FY 2021 Registration of Interest, fewer PHAs self-
identified interest in receiving a HUD-VASH voucher allocation. Many
PHAs are working to improve the utilization of their existing program
before coming in for additional vouchers. There is also a lack of
administrative capacity among some PHAs. HUD and VA are working
collaboratively to assist PHAs and VAMCs to improve utilization.
Question. Does HUD have enough resources to ensure that veterans
experiencing homelessness who are eligible for this program will be
able to access its services?
Answer. HUD believes that there are sufficient HUD-VASH voucher
resources to serve the current eligible population of homeless
veterans. HUD notes that this may change in the future due to expansion
of HUD-VASH eligibility or if veterans are not prevented from becoming
newly homeless in the future.
______
Questions Submitted by Senator John Boozman
proposed community reinvestment act rule
Question. As drafted, the proposed Community Reinvestment Act rule
issued by the OCC, Federal Reserve, and FDIC, could be interpreted to
penalize banks that purchase seasoned government-backed loans such as
those under HUD's FHA and Section 184 Indian Home Loan Guarantee
programs.? More specifically, the borrower distribution metric is
unclear on how it would treat the purchase of a loan to a borrower who
was considered LMI at the time the loan was originated, but for whom
the bank does not have updated borrower income information at the time
of purchase.? Because the borrower distribution metric measures the
number of purchased and originated home mortgage loans to LMI borrowers
as compared to all of the bank's purchased and originated home mortgage
loans, to include purchased, government-backed loans without any
updated income information in the borrower distribution metric will
artificially suppress CRA ratings.
To what extent do you believe this interpretation of the proposed
rule would drive banks away from participating in government loan
programs, like the FHA and Section 184 programs, and the Ginnie Mae
system?
Answer. HUD appreciates the Senator's interest in the potential
impact of the proposed Community Reinvestment Act rule on its programs.
The Department is unable, however, to estimate the prospective impact
of this proposed rule on lender participation in its programs.
Question. Do you agree that dissuading banks from participating in
these programs could result in unintended consequences for borrowers
who rely on FHA and Section 184 loan programs??
Answer. HUD welcomes the participation of all interested and
qualified lenders in its programs and is unable to estimate the
prospective impact of this proposed rule on lender participation in its
programs.
Question. Would you support excluding purchased, seasoned,
government-backed loans without any income information reported from
the borrower distribution metric in the final CRA rule?
Answer. HUD does not have an opinion on this matter.
fha multifamily production
Question. Over the past 2 years, FHA's multifamily production
volume has dropped dramatically from over 140 closings per month to
less than 60. HUD's own `Fiscal Year 2022-2026 HUD Strategic Plan' has
a goal to `Increase the Supply of Housing'.
With rising interest rates and reduced liquidity across the banking
sector, what steps are being taken by FHA to reverse the trend on
multifamily housing and help HUD to deliver on its Strategic Plan goal
of increasing the supply of housing?
Answer. The Department is committed to expanding the supply of
high-quality rental housing to meet the needs of people and communities
nationwide. FHA's Multifamily mortgage insurance programs are an
essential part of that effort that we have worked to strengthen since
the start of the Administration.
FHA Multifamily experienced record program volume in FY 2020, 2021,
and 2022, with $21.4 billion, $31.3 billion, and $22.7 billion,
respectively, in firm commitments. In the preceding 10-year period from
FY 2010 through FY 2019, volume ranged from $10.6 billion to a high in
2013 of $17.8 billion. Like all mortgage finance sectors, multifamily
financing is sensitive to macroeconomic conditions. As interest rates
have risen, it has become more challenging to make projects pencil out,
leading to a decline in multifamily loan production across all
financing channels in the market. As the market adjusts to a new normal
in terms of mortgage interest rates, Multifamily will continue to
support the supply of rental housing through its efficient & effective
delivery of Multifamily mortgage insurance. In addition, the FY 2024
President's Budget includes a legislative proposal that would permit
HUD to update the statutory loan limits for the program, which would
ensure FHA remains a viable financing option across a variety of
markets.
housing for older americans
Question. Housing for older Americans has never been more important
as we are at peak retirement for Baby Boomers. HUD's section 232
program provides Mortgage Insurance for Residential Care Facilities.
What is HUD doing to update this important program and make sure it
meets the needs of our aging population? For example, are there
thoughts of moving the age to 55 (to conform with the Fair Housing Act
definition of Housing for Older Persons) or making it easier for
nursing homes to qualify?
Answer. HUD continuously strives to improve this extremely
important and widely used residential care facility financing tool. As
you have indicated, the statutory definition of ``elderly'' that
applies to Section 232 assisted living facilities (ALFs) is limited to
a person who is at least 62 years of age. Presently, HUD is sometimes
able to insure ALFs with younger residents by utilizing Section 232's
statutory definition for a Board and Care Home. Doing so is case-
specific and is constrained by other Board and Care Home statutory
constraints. HUD is assessing the impacts of its statutory authority
under the 232 program and whether changes that serve broader segments
of older adults may be merited.
gnma
Question. The 2024 President's Budget requests $61.5 million for
Ginnie Mae, which is $20.6 million more than the 2023 enacted level. I
understand that 2024 will be the first year that Ginnie Mae transitions
to support the entire cost for personnel services strictly from an
annual appropriation.
Can you share with the committee how this budget will enable Ginnie
Mae to better achieve its mission to provide liquidity in the housing
finance ecosystem?
Answer. The budget request for Ginnie Mae's Salaries & Expenses
($61 million) will support 271 full-time equivalents (FTEs), and
provide necessary resources for Ginnie Mae to continue building on
recent successes in driving liquidity toward equitable and affordable
housing, including but not limited to:
--Further investing in the Home Equity Conversion Mortgages
(``HECMs'') MBS Program. The HECM MBS program provides
liquidity benefits for senior citizens who depend on this
product to access equity in their homes. The budget ensures
that Ginnie Mae can implement programmatic improvements to
continue to support Issuer liquidity and the long-term health
of this product/program.
It is important to note that a significant increase in the 2024
budget request is the result of additional staffing needs related to
the default of a large HECM MBS Issuer in December 2022 (FY 2023). Upon
default, Ginnie Mae assumed the obligations for ongoing management and
operation of the defaulted portfolio ( $21 billion). A significant
surge in staffing is needed to manage the daily requirements of this
sizeable and complex portfolio.
--Optimize investment strategies that align with the HUD 2022-2026
Strategic Plan. The Plan explicitly directs Ginnie Mae to
pursue providing additional liquidity support to underserved
communities. This will entail the creation of new security
products and delivery structures (e.g., conversion of
multifamily risk share lending to Ginnie Mae securitization;
Title I lending; developing a business channel and
securitization product to enhance liquidity for Community
Development Financial Institutions, etc.). For FY 2024,
continued progress will be dependent on funding to deploy
dedicated FTE resources to support these initiatives.
--Expanding our existing Digital Collateral program. In FY 2022,
Ginnie Mae increased Issuer participation opportunities by
reopening the program to new eIssuer applications. Since
reopening in June 2022, Ginnie Mae has processed over 20
eIssuers after completing risk assessments and system testing
for each. This effort has re-engineered requirements for the
management of pool collateral, including facilitating the
conversion from paper-based to a digital approach, which
requires additional staffing resources.
--Enhancing our MBS program and platform through IT initiatives. In
executing these initiatives, Ginnie Mae takes advantage of
cloud migration. This enhancement of technology transformation
ensures that Ginnie Mae's MBS platform remains competitive and
agile in the dynamic secondary mortgage industry.
--Mitigating major cyber and counterparty credit risks. The scale of
the MBS platform necessitates continued investment over
multiple years. In October 2022 (FY 2023), Ginnie Mae completed
migration of its securitization platform to Amazon Web Services
(AWS) GovCloud. With this migration, Ginnie Mae has the
foundational architecture to provide enhanced visibility into
our security operations and enable compliance with current/
future risk requirements mandated by the government (e.g.,
Executive Order 14028). In addition, Ginnie Mae continues to
make strides in data and analytics, but deficiencies exist
within legacy tools/systems.
firsthome down payment assistance initiative
Question. You have requested $100 million for the First Home Down
payment Assistance initiative. Homeownership is a proven method of
building wealth but obtaining the resources to meet required down
payment and closing costs is the most significant obstacle to
homeownership for potential first-time homebuyers who could otherwise
afford the monthly costs of owning a home. The proposed set-aside
within the HOME account aims to support sustainable homeownership among
first-generation, first-time homebuyers while piloting programmatic
flexibilities and innovations in subsidy delivery.
Would this initiative help participating borrowers achieve greater
equity in their homes at the time of closing?
Answer. Yes. The purpose of the FirstHOME Downpayment Assistance
(DPA) initiative is to provide downpayment assistance to first-time,
first-generation homebuyers (i.e., homebuyers who have not owned a home
and whose parents do not own a home). The purpose of the initiative is
to help participating homebuyers achieve a 10 percent equity stake,
through homebuyer downpayment, sweat equity, the FirstHOME DPA, or
other assistance, in their home at the time of closing.
Question. How would it reduce the likelihood of default and
foreclosure?
Answer. First HOME DPA will seek to combine upfront assistance to
attain a 10 percent equity stake with other tools such as HUD-approved
homebuyer counseling before purchase to ensure that first-time, first-
generation homebuyers achieve homeownership that is sustainable.
Research suggests that a higher level of homebuyer equity and first
mortgage debt that meets industry standards are correlated with lower
rates of default.
The FirstHOME DPA initiative will be administered by state HOME
grantees, which in most states is the state housing finance agency. HUD
will encourage these state grantees to combine FirstHOME DPA with other
resources such as first mortgage financing provided through state-
funded mortgage products, community development financial institution
(CDFI) and other community lender mortgage products, and FHA-insured
products.
Question. Under this initiative, who determines issues such as the
type of housing product, the location of the affordable housing, and
the segment of their low-income population to be served through the
housing investment?
Answer. State HOME grantees would design and administer FirstHOME
DPA programs under flexible rules that encourage pilots and
demonstrations of new approaches to serving low-and moderate-income
first-time homebuyers who are also first-generation homebuyers. As in
the main HOME Program, the grantee would determine the type of housing
that may be acquired with FirstHOME DPA and establish eligibility and
other rules for its program. Each state grantee would administer the
program statewide.
fha's it systems
Question. FHA Catalyst is a crucial project to help provide cloud-
based platforms to reduce costs, risk, and fraud, and bring FHA in line
with current industry practices. I support the enhanced level of
resources provided in recent years to HUD's Cybersecurity and
Information Technology Fund to help the agency better meet its acute
information technology (IT) needs on a broad basis, including
multifamily housing IT modernization and the ongoing upgrade of FHA's
decades-old single-family IT infrastructure.
How would you characterize the current state of FHA's IT systems?
Answer. HUD has completed a number of improvements to date under
the Housing IT Modernization Initiative, the bulk of which have
occurred as components of the FHA Catalyst program. In 2020, HUD
implemented the FHA Catalyst Case Binder and Claims Modules, which
allow FHA lenders to submit case binders and claims electronically.
Previously, HUD maintained paper-based processes that made it difficult
for FHA partners to conduct business with FHA. In 2021, HUD delivered
the FHA Catalyst Single Family Default Monitoring System, which
provides FHA with a modern interface for tracking data on Defaulted
Mortgages. This allows HUD to better understand which loss mitigation
policies are being utilized to help delinquent borrowers remain in
their homes, and to develop more effective policies to support
borrowers and lenders.
HUD remains committed to modernizing FHA's IT infrastructure and we
are currently in the process of updating the roadmap for the Housing IT
Modernization Initiative, which will articulate the strategies and
prioritization that will guide HUD's next steps in IT modernization.
This modernization of FHA's information technology will streamline
processes for stakeholders and staff and improve analytical
capabilities and internal controls.
Question. What more can be done to help FHA improve its quality
assurance controls and the integrity of its systems?
Answer. Completion of the Office of Housing's comprehensive IT
modernization requires Congressional support for continued
appropriations and such resources are requested in the 2024 President's
Budget for the Information Technology Fund in the amount of $3.3
million. While the Department is very proud of the progress made to
date, it will take additional resources to complete the work to
properly modernize FHA's technology. We look forward to working with
Congress as we collectively seek to finish the job of providing the
trillion dollar FHA program the resources it needs to operate
responsibly and efficiently in a 21st century mortgage finance
environment.
small balance mortgage demonstration
Question. Your budget request includes a $15 million set-aside to
finance the new Small Balance Mortgage demonstration, which will help
increase access for mortgages for lower-priced, affordable homes.
How will this demonstration program examine how to streamline
regulations to make the small dollar mortgage market more efficient and
accessible? This would represent a key step forward for potential home
buyers.
Answer. HUD's research has indicated that the primary barrier to
the origination of small balance mortgage loans is the limited
compensation lenders can earn from these transactions. While mortgage
origination costs are largely fixed, lender compensation is variable
based upon loan size. HUD's proposed small balance mortgage pilot will
allow us to test whether small incentives that help to address lender
profitability concerns will prompt them to increase the number of small
balance mortgages originated in FHA programs. We are hopeful that the
program may incentivize some lenders to establish the requisite
strategy and infrastructure to originate these loans at scale with or
without subsidy.
SUBCOMMITTEE RECESS
Senator Schatz. And this hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:06 a.m., Thursday, April 20, the
subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene subject to the call of
the Chair.]
LIST OF WITNESSES, COMMUNICATIONS, AND
PREPARED STATEMENTS
----------
Page
Boozman, Senator John, U.S. Senator from Arkansas, Questions
Submitted by................................................... 87
Buttigieg, Hon. Pete, Secretary, Department of Transportation:
Prepared Statement of........................................ 6
Statement of................................................. 1
Summary Statement of......................................... 4
Capito, Senator Shelley Moore, U.S. Senator from West Virginia,
Questions Submitted by........................................ 51, 84
Collins, Senator Susan M., U.S. Senator from Maine, Questions
Submitted by................................................... 49
Feinstein, Senator Dianne, U.S. Senator from California,
Questions Submitted by........................................ 38, 78
Fudge, Hon. Marcia, Secretary, Department of Housing and Urban
Development:
Prepared Statement of........................................ 57
Statement of................................................. 53
Summary Statement of......................................... 56
Graham, Senator Lindsey, U.S. Senator from South Carolina,
Questions Submitted by......................................... 51
Hoeven, Senator John, U.S. Senator from North Dakota, Questions
Submitted by................................................... 86
Hyde-Smith, Senator Cindy, U.S. Senator from Mississippi:
Questions Submitted by....................................... 44
Statement of................................................. 3, 55
Manchin, Senator Joe, U.S. Senator from West Virginia, Questions
Submitted by.................................................. 41, 79
Moran, Senator Jerry, U.S. Senator from Kansas, Questions
Submitted by.................................................. 52, 86
Murray, Senator Patty, U.S. Senator from Washington, Questions
Submitted by.................................................. 37, 76
Schatz, Senator Brian, U.S. Senator from Hawaii:
Opening Statement of......................................... 1, 53
Questions Submitted by....................................... 37
Van Hollen, Senator Chris, U.S. Senator from Maryland, Questions
Submitted by................................................... 42
SUBJECT INDEX
----------
Page
Department of Transportation
__________
Additional Committee Questions................................... 37
Advanced Air Mobility............................................ 29
Aircraft Emissions............................................... 49
Airport:
Improvement Program Funding.................................. 44
Resiliency................................................... 8
Air:
Pilot Workforce.............................................. 33
Traffic Investment........................................... 30
Alternative Fuels................................................ 32
Amtrak Funding and Infrastructure................................ 12
ARPA-I........................................................... 34
Aviation:
Consumer Protections......................................... 37
Safety....................................................... 9
Buy America...................................................... 9
Chinese Manufactured Drones...................................... 44
Crisi Program.................................................... 28
Contract Towers.................................................. 25
Cybersecurity--PNT............................................... 47
Essential Air Service............................................ 44
FAA Family Seating Policy........................................ 49
GAO:
Report:
On Aviation Safety Bi-laterals and Validation............ 48
Re: GPS Interference..................................... 46
GPS Backup....................................................... 45
Grants Management Process........................................ 22
Hair Testing..................................................... 27
Hazardous Materials Safety....................................... 21
Impaired Driving Rule............................................ 9
Infrastructure Grant Programs Funding............................ 14
Liquefied Natural Gas Center of Excellence....................... 19
National Security Multi-Mission Vessels.......................... 15
One Federal Decision............................................. 23
Pipeline Safety.................................................. 33
Rail Emergency Response.......................................... 7
Rail Safety................................................. 21, 26, 32
Reconnecting Communities......................................... 16
Roadway Safety Technology........................................ 48
Rulemaking Process............................................... 18
Safe Driver Apprenticeship Program............................... 11
Supply Chain..................................................... 35
Sustainable Transportation....................................... 13
Transit:
Electrification.............................................. 25
Worker Safety................................................ 17
Tribal Access to Competitive Grants.............................. 8
Truck Parking Capacity........................................... 29
Unmanned Aircraft Systems........................................ 35
Wind Energy...................................................... 24
Vehicle Safety................................................... 50
__________
Department of Housing and Urban Development
Additional Committee Questions................................... 75
Advance Sustainable Communities, Climate Resilience, and
Environmental Justice.......................................... 60
Collaboration Between HUD and CMS................................ 76
Documentation.................................................... 79
Economically Distressed Rural Counties........................... 84
EHV Program and Stability Vouchers............................... 76
Ensure Access to and Increase Supply of Affordable Housing....... 59
FHA's IT Systems................................................. 90
FHA Multifamily Production....................................... 88
FirstHome Down Payment Assistance Initiative..................... 89
GNMA............................................................. 89
Herschel Lashkowitz Tower........................................ 86
Homeless Families and Children................................... 79
Housing:
And Urban Development Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing
(Hud-Vash)................................................. 87
For Older Americans.......................................... 88
Supply....................................................... 81
HUD Economic Development Initiatives (EDIs) CDS projects in West
Virginia....................................................... 85
Impact of Area Median Income Calculations........................ 85
Legal Conservatorship of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.............. 84
Los Angeles's Inside Safe Initiative............................. 79
National Debt Limit.............................................. 82
President Biden's 2024 Budget.................................... 58
Promote Homeownership Opportunities and Wealth-Building.......... 59
Proposed:
Community Reinvestment Act Rule.............................. 87
Rule Changes for the HOME Investment Partnerships Program.... 83
Public Housing Authorities in Rural Areas........................ 86
Service Providers for Homelessness............................... 77
Small Balance Mortgage Demonstration............................. 91
State Housing Finance Agencies and Performance-Based Contract
Administrators................................................. 83
Strengthen HUD's Internal Capacity to Deliver Its Mission........ 60
Support Underserved Communities and Equitable Community
Development.................................................... 59
Veteran Disability............................................... 78
Women and Homelessness........................................... 78
[all]