[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                                        S. Hrg. 118-366

                     MADE IN AMERICA: THE BOOM IN U.S. 
                           MANUFACTURING INVESTMENT

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE

                                 OF THE

                     CONGRESS OF THE UNITED STATES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             JUNE 12, 2024

                               __________

          Printed for the use of the Joint Economic Committee
          
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                     Available via www.govinfo.gov
                     
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                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                         
                    
                        JOINT ECONOMIC COMMITTEE

    [Created pursuant to Sec. 5(a) of Public Law 304, 79th Congress]

SENATE                               HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
Martin Heinrich, New Mexico,         David Schweikert, Arizona, Vice 
    Chairman                             Chairman
Amy Klobuchar, Minnesota             Jodey C. Arrington, Texas
Margaret Wood Hassan, New Hampshire  Ron Estes, Kansas
Mark Kelly, Arizona                  A. Drew Ferguson IV, Georgia
Peter Welch, Vermont                 Lloyd K. Smucker, Pennsylvania
John Fetterman, Pennsylvania         Nicole Malliotakis, New York
Mike Lee, Utah                       Donald S. Beyer Jr., Virginia
Tom Cotton, Arkansas                 David Trone, Maryland
Eric Schmitt, Missouri               Gwen Moore, Wisconsin
J.D. Vance, Ohio                     Katie Porter, California
                  Jessica Martinez, Executive Director
                 Ron Donado, Republican Staff Director
                           
                           
                           C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                     Opening Statements of Members

                                                                   Page
Hon. Martin Heinrich, Chairman, a U.S. Senator from New Mexico...     1

                               Witnesses

Mr. Kevin Hostetler, Chief Executive Officer, Array Technologies, 
  Albuquerque, NM................................................     4
Mr. Skanda Amarnath, Executive Director, Employ America, 
  Washington, DC.................................................     6
Dr. Adam N. Michel, Director of Tax Policy Studies, Cato 
  Institute, Washington, DC......................................     8
Mr. Scott Lincicome, Vice President of General Economics and 
  Stiefel Trade Policy Center, Cato Institute, Washington, DC....    17

                       Submissions for the Record

Prepared Statement of Chairman Martin Heinrich, a U.S. Senator 
  from New Mexico................................................    19
Prepared Statement of Mr. Kevin Hostetler, Chief Executive 
  Officer, Array Technologies, Albuquerque, NM...................    22
Prepared Statement of Mr. Skanda Amarnath, Executive Director, 
  Employ America, Washington, DC.................................    24
Prepared Statement of Dr. Adam N. Michel, Director of Tax Policy 
  Studies, Cato Institute, Washington, DC........................    35
Prepared Statement of Mr. Scott Lincicome, Vice President of 
  General Economics and Stiefel Trade Policy Center, Cato 
  Institute, Washington, DC......................................    50
Questions for the Record submitted to Mr. Skanda Amarnath from 
  Senator Amy Klobuchar and Response.............................    68
Chart submitted by Chairman Martin Heinrich titled: After Passage 
  of CHIPS Act and IRA, Real Construction Spending on 
  Manufacturing Surged...........................................    71
Chart submitted by Vice Chairmen David Schweikert titled: 
  Employment in Manufacturing Has Remained Almost Constant for 85 
  Years..........................................................    72

 
       MADE IN AMERICA: THE BOOM IN U.S. MANUFACTURING INVESTMENT

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 2024

                            United States Congress,
                                  Joint Economic Committee,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The hearing was convened, pursuant to notice, at 2:58 p.m., 
before the Joint Economic Committee Chairman, Martin Heinrich 
in Room G-50 Dirksen Senate Office Building.
    Present: Senators Heinrich, Hassan, Welch.
    Representatives: Schweikert, Smucker.
    Staff Present: Hannah Ceja, Sebi Devlin-Foltz, Kobe 
Barthdemy, Douglas Simons, Ron Donado, Matthew Cernicky, 
Alexander Schunk, Colleen Healy, Jeremy Johnson, Jessica 
Martinez.
    Chairman Heinrich. This hearing will come to order. I'd 
like to welcome everyone to today's Joint Economic Committee 
hearing titled, ``Made in America: The Boom in U.S. 
Manufacturing Investment.''
    Today's hearing will begin with five-minute opening 
statements from myself and Vice Chairman Schweikert, and each 
of our four witnesses, and then we'll proceed to questions, 
alternating between parties in the order of member arrival.
    I'm just going to remind members to keep their questions to 
no more than five minutes, but I think you and I can handle 
that.
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. You just remind me.
    Chairman Heinrich. Now, on to opening statements. Over the 
past few years, we have seen a truly remarkable comeback story 
for American manufacturing, impacting communities both in my 
home state of New Mexico, but across the country. The economy 
has added hundreds of thousands of new jobs in manufacturing 
and construction, as private investment has flowed into the 
clean energy sector, semiconductor production and advanced 
technology manufacturing through the U.S.
    This was not an accident. We fought hard to bring real 
solutions to the table and move forward with the Inflation 
Reduction Act, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the CHIPS 
and Science Act. These policies have driven the comeback story 
that we are seeing, and this graph shows how factory investment 
surged after the passage of those laws, a trend that we hadn't 
seen under any prior administration's policies.
    With these historic bills, we've spurred a manufacturing 
renaissance across America, and not only is this benefitting 
our economy, but it will also bolster our national security and 
protect our children and grandchildren from the impacts of 
climate change for years to come.
    The buildout of these key industries will pay dividends by 
creating middle class jobs that people can build a family 
around in their home communities. They will create thousands of 
careers in New Mexico and across the U.S. in the skilled trades 
and in advanced manufacturing, and it is critical in this 
moment that we work with unions, with industry, with training 
centers and local leaders to make sure that implementation of 
these policies is done right.
    To ensure our workforce can capitalize on these 
opportunities, we need to focus on training and upskilling. 
Apprenticeships and vocational training, as well as 
partnerships with community colleges and universities will give 
more Americans the chance to meet rising demand for these 
careers, that will help move our communities, our country and 
our economy forward.
    That is why our legislation made sure to invest in these 
efforts, and in companies that commit to building up America's 
workforce. Array Technologies is a perfect example of a company 
that is leading the way by expanding its manufacturing 
facilities here in the U.S. I was happy to be at Array's 
ground-breaking ceremony in April of this year with Secretary 
of Energy Granholm, and am glad that their CEO could join us 
here today.
    For decades now, Array has been a world leader in 
manufacturing solar trackers, the hardware that rotates solar 
panels towards the sun throughout the day. This year, Array is 
investing more than $50 million to construct a new 216,000 
square foot campus in Albuquerque, New Mexico, that will 
support 300 new jobs in the near-term.
    And they are expanding largely because of the production 
tax credits that we worked so hard to include in the Inflation 
Reduction Act. Just as they did for Array, these incentives 
sent a powerful signal to companies that we are ready to build 
big things in this country once again.
    In the last few years, we have seen hundreds of 
manufacturing announcements representing billions of dollars in 
private investment, and along with the Inflation Reduction Act, 
we are seeing booming private investment in semiconductor 
manufacturing from the CHIPS and Science Act. This law is 
already boosting employment and wages in New Mexico, with Intel 
announcing a $3.5 billion investment in its Rio Rancho campus 
and fab.
    This facility is expected to create at least 700 permanent 
manufacturing jobs, but thousands of construction jobs in the 
meantime, and we are not stopping there. Just yesterday, the 
Department of Commerce announced new CHIPS Act funding for 
Solaro, a home-grown New Mexico company that can now expand 
production and hire 100 new manufacturing workers.
    With support from these policies, companies are opening new 
factories in American communities, to build everything from 
semiconductors to wind turbines and heat pumps, to solar panels 
and energy storage. That's what good policy does.
    But I want to make sure that it is clear that due to these 
policies, business is not only growing in urban centers. We are 
driving investment in rural America. I have seen this firsthand 
back in New Mexico, where Arcosa recently opened a new wind 
tower manufacturing facility in Belen in Valencia County.
    Back in April, I got to meet the workers there and see the 
first wind towers coming off the line at that facility, and 
this is just one example of how these laws that we have passed 
here invest in the economy of the future. These bills are also 
driving investment in rural energy and infrastructure that can 
reduce operating costs, lay the groundwork for future economic 
growth.
    With this approach, we are making sure that the benefits of 
this manufacturing boom reach the entire country. I am looking 
forward to hearing from our witnesses on how these federal 
investments have guided business and manufacturing decisions in 
the U.S., and how we can continue to support this expansion and 
make its benefits as--and make sure it benefits as many 
Americans as possible.
    With that, now I will turn to our Vice Chairman, Chairman 
Schweikert.
    [The prepared statement of Chairman Heinrich appears in the 
Submissions for the Record.]
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. Thank you, Chairman Heinrich, and 
would you believe that I see parts of this differently. Being a 
big fan of something that is often referred to as allocation 
theory, when it is done through a government grant, will that 
government always be granting to the latest, best, fastest, 
most nimble, most cutting edge, most disruptive technology, or 
do we often fund incumbency.
    I think that the record shows that much of the capital 
expenditure, which every dime has been borrowed. Once again, 
this cash flow that is going out, every dime is borrowed money. 
So, you actually have to now think of the rate of return. We 
are paying interest on that.
    We also have a chart, and we are happy to put it into the 
record without objection, that also will demonstrate that 
manufacturing and employment functionally are the same as it 
was in 2022, once again demonstrating that yes, you may get 
spikes in trade as a plant is being built, but are we back into 
the cycle once again of a planned economy industrial policy, 
where we actually--a fraction of that money could have gone 
into the research and development of the next generation that 
disrupts and makes America truly leap ahead of the rest of the 
world.
    Instead, this policy has set off a cascade of subsidized 
chip manufacturing. You see China now organizing what was the 
last fund, $30 billion, and the EU is now setting aside a 
massive subsidy to have theirs. We have actually now created a 
race to the bottom.
    At the very same time, we are doing tax policy, saying we 
need a global minimum, but over here we have functionally 
financed something that is dramatically more expensive in the 
global race to the bottom, a subsidy policy. Its math, you 
cannot avoid the reality.
    The other thing I will also give is the basic belief of if 
you are going to have industrial policy, the concept of having 
government handing out grants and the political danger that 
comes around when I must go knock on the door of the 
administration or the politicians to get my cash, the 
distorting effects that has on society, on competitive markets, 
and the allocation theory comes back into play.
    If we are going to borrow money from your retirement and my 
kids' future, are we actually getting the long-run economic 
growth, or as so often as is quoted around here, are we just 
seeing the sugar high for a short time without long-term 
extended growth and sustainable employment? And with that, I 
yield back.
    Chairman Heinrich. Now I would like to introduce our 
distinguished witnesses today. Mr. Kevin Hostetler is the Chief 
Executive Officer of Array Technologies, a global company 
specializing in utility-scale solar trackers and renewable 
energy, headquartered in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
    Array has been a leader in the solar industry for over 
three decades, and has helped build out the U.S. supply chain 
for solar components. Prior to joining array, Mr. Hostetler 
served as CEO at Rotork, where he led the company's growth 
acceleration program, and as CEO of FDH Infrastructure 
Services, an engineering consulting company, focused on 
critical infrastructure like bridges, dams and transmission 
towers.
    Mr. Skanda Amarnath is the Executive Director at Employ 
America, a research and advocacy organization committed to the 
macroeconomic policies that can sustain full employment 
outcomes. Employ America has written at length about the 
interconnections between manufacturing investment, productivity 
growth and employment gains for workers, among other pressing 
economic policy topics.
    Now, prior to joining Employ America in April of 2019 as 
research director, Mr. Amarnath worked as a market economist 
and strategist, and as an analyst at the Federal Reserve Bank 
of New York.
    Dr. Adam Michel is the Director of Tax Policy Studies at 
the Cato Institute, where he focuses on analyzing the economic 
and budgetary effects of taxation in the United States. Prior 
to joining Cato, Dr. Michel served as the deputy director at 
the Joint Economic Committee under Senator Mike Lee.
    Mr. Scott Lincicome is the Vice President of General 
Economics at Cato's Herbert A. Stiefel Center for Trade Policy 
Studies. Mr. Lincicome is also a senior visiting lecturer at 
Duke University Law School, where he has taught a course on 
international trade policy and previously taught international 
trade policy.
    Mr. Hostetler, let us begin with your testimony, and then 
we will just continue in the order of the introductions.

 STATEMENT OF KEVIN HOSTETLER, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ARRAY 
             TECHNOLOGIES, ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO

    Mr. Hostetler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Vice Chairman 
and all members of this Committee. It is an honor to be here 
today. My name is Kevin Hostetler, and I am the CEO of Array 
Technologies. Our U.S. footprint includes Albuquerque, New 
Mexico, where we have our manufacturing facility, and our 
research and development hub in Chandler, Arizona.
    Array is a leading American manufacturer and global 
provider of tracker solutions for utility-scale solar energy 
projects. Our solar trackers are an integral part of solar 
farms, rotating panels to follow the sun, which increases 
energy production by up to 25 percent.
    Founded in 1989 in Albuquerque as one of the first U.S. 
solar manufacturers, Array is a true American manufacturing 
success story. We are proud to be an American company, sourcing 
low carbon domestic steel, supporting local jobs and using a 
traceable U.S. supply chain with trusted partners.
    I am grateful to be leading Array during this nation's 
manufacturing renaissance. In April, Array broke ground on a 
new manufacturing campus in Albuquerque, where we will make our 
clamps, center structures, drive system components and 
electrical controllers. The IRA and 45(x) credits are helping 
us to onshore critical components and realize this 50 plus 
million dollar expansion.
    To start, our new facility will employ more than 300 local 
residents in the near term. This growth will enable us to 
further develop more onshore capacity and make more solar 
technology here at home. Over the next decade, we anticipate 
significant growth in industry employment, with solar 
manufacturing jobs expected to more than triple.
    In the meantime, we need to create a skilled, renewable 
energy workforce. That is why we partner with schools like 
Central New Mexico Community College. In 2022, we donated a 1.3 
megawatt solar site that generates power for the campus and 
serves as a training facility for Array to provide hands-on 
learning to students.
    Collaborations like these are building a pipeline of 
talent, ensuring that students and job-seekers have the 
necessary skills and knowledge to thrive as the industry 
creates jobs. The IRA and other federal investments have helped 
grow our domestic production. As an example, the 45(x) tax 
credits are allowing us to onshore plant manufacturing, where 
we were importing and this will double our manufacturing 
capacity in Albuquerque.
    We have also invested in new capital equipment to support 
the current and future growth of our facility. Since the 
passage of the IRA, there has been a notable uptick in 
announcements from new solar manufacturing facilities across 
the supply chain, driven by the law's provisions and the 
anticipated rise in solar demand.
    This has caused a ripple effect, as our business growth has 
also spurred growth for our partners. Copper State Bolts and 
Nuts Company has added an additional 30,000 square feet in 
their Goodyear, Arizona facility to support their solar 
business. Our partner Priefert Steel in Mount Pleasant, Texas 
has invested $25 million in solar in the last 24 months, 
employing over 200 people.
    Lock Joint Tube in Temple, Texas invested $16 million in a 
dedicated tube line to support solar tracker manufacturing. And 
finally our partner Nucor is investing $70 million in capital 
for a new steel plant in Kentucky to support the growth in 
solar demand.
    The IRA has set the stage for long-term growth and 
stability for our business and the U.S. solar industry. The law 
is expected to facilitate nearly triple the current solar 
capacity by 2028, fostering a strong, sustainable future for 
renewable energy in America.
    Array's presence in New Mexico not only boosts the local 
economy, but also positions the region as a hub for renewable 
energy innovation and manufacturing. We are proud to work with 
company like Enchanted Machine Works, Knockout Metal Works and 
Precision Sharpening. This growth contributes to a more 
resilient and diverse economic landscape benefiting the broader 
community and promoting long-term prosperity.
    The IRA has spurred a true manufacturing resurgence and 
Array is just one example of how this legislation is paying 
dividends. With policies that supercharge solar manufacturing 
and create new jobs, together we are paving the way for a 
brighter, more sustainable future. Thank you for the time and I 
look forward to answering your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hostetler appears in the 
Submissions for the Record.]
    Chairman Heinrich. Mr. Amarnath.

   STATEMENT OF SKANDA AMARNATH, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, EMPLOY 
                   AMERICA, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Amarnath. Chairman Heinrich, Vice Chairman Schweikert, 
thank you for the invitation to testify today. My name is 
Skanda Amarnath. I am the Executive Director of Employ America, 
a non-partisan macroeconomic policy research organization.
    Before discussing what the available macroeconomic data 
tells us about the nature of manufacturing investment and 
public policy, I would like to first lays out some reasons why 
manufacturing and industrial investment may be of unique 
relevance.
    Economic development and manufacturing advancement have 
long been tied together. No major advanced economy has 
sidestepped the industrialization process on its path to 
becoming wealthy. If you compare what each country exports, it 
becomes clear which countries are richer and which countries 
are poorer.
    Richer countries tend to produce a broader diversity and a 
higher complexity of traded products. That is because richer 
societies have accumulated superior know-how for producing 
highly complex leading-edge products, and can do so across a 
broader range of goods.
    The reasons to encourage investment in manufacturing are 
thus twofold: ensuring that workers and enterprises in the U.S. 
capture the knowledge spillovers associated with producing 
technologically advanced goods, and encouraging broader 
industrial diversification at the national, state and local 
levels.
    A more diversified economy also goes hand in hand with a 
wider range of opportunities for workers and businesses. But 
where other sectors have thrived over the past few decades, 
manufacturing has seen a general decline. Some reasons for the 
decline were inevitable, but it is worth noting that this trend 
also grew more visible in high-tech, advanced manufacturing 
sectors.
    With this mind, the surge in construction of manufacturing 
facilities is worth studying. The level of spending that the 
private sector has engaged in to construct manufacturing 
facilities has increased from approximately $80 billion in 2019 
to around $220 billion today.
    Even after adjusting for specific cost increases, the level 
of real investment has more than doubled since 2019. While 
public policy is surely supporting much of this increase, it is 
worth clarifying that these expenditures are directly deployed 
by private firms, not by governmental actors.
    Not all manufacturing subsectors have seen a surge in 
investment, but the ones most closely adjacent to recently 
enacted legislation have. The manufacturing supersector 
encompassing computer and electronic products, and electrical 
equipment, appliances and components have seen a tenfold 
increase in real manufacturing structures investment since 
2019.
    This supersector includes not only the primary subject 
matter of CHIPS, but also photovoltaic cells for solar panels, 
batteries for motor vehicles and transformers for the utility 
sector, all potentially facilitated by CHIPS and IRA.
    The timing of the surge in investment in manufacturing 
construction is the most compelling evidence that CHIPS and IRA 
are having a sizeable impact on the willingness of 
manufacturers to build out and improve their facilities. The 
effects of policy enactment are especially clear cut across 
census regions in the Midwest and Sun Belt, where manufacturing 
investments surged noticeably following the enactment of 
legislation.
    To fully evaluate the success of policy, it will require 
translating capacity gains, which recent construction spending 
should represent, into gains in manufacturing output and 
productivity. But importantly, it is still far too soon to 
expect relevant manufacturing facilities to reach productive 
maturity and achieve the anticipated level of output.
    It will take time to fully build out capacity, and more 
time still to reach productive maturity. The relevant 
manufacturing investments, given their capital intensity, are 
also unlikely to share their full labor market impact through 
factory floor jobs alone. Instead, what we see is how 
manufacturing investments can drive growth in construction-
related or product research and development jobs.
    While targeted sectors are likely to see further gains in 
employment only as production scales up, the bigger gains in 
employment are materializing right now for electricians, 
engineers, architects, lab testers and a range of other fields 
I describe in more depth in my written testimony.
    As we look to the future, it is important to remember that 
leading edge manufacturing production, whether tied to 
semiconductors or the vast array of new energy technologies, 
often requires available and affordable financing, a proximate 
supply chain and industrial base, and a skilled workforce.
    These necessary conditions for investment often depend on 
the presence of industry in the first place, thereby giving 
rise to what might may understand as a chicken or the egg 
dilemma. It often takes a critical mass of policy support to 
ensure investment decisions can overcome hurdle rates that 
otherwise would deter the sorts of investments that we are 
seeing right now.
    We have had decades of declining interest rates and falling 
cost of capital, but only in recent years has a flurry of 
investment in capital intensive manufacturing sectors emerged. 
This flurry has even defied the has defied the Fed's recent 
campaign to tighten financial conditions thus far.
    But even with this progress, old and new constraints, 
whether they stem from financial constraints, regulatory 
burdens or something entirely different, are likely to bind. In 
ensuring that enacted legislation yields maximum benefit for 
the public, my hope is that lawmakers and policymakers stay 
attentive, open-minded and pragmatic.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Amarnath appears in the 
Submissions for the Record.]
    Chairman Heinrich. Dr. Michel.

STATEMENT OF DR. ADAM MICHEL, DIRECTOR OF TAX POLICY, THE CATO 
                  INSTITUTE, WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Dr. Michel. Chairman Heinrich, Vice Chairman Schweikert and 
members of the Committee, thank you for inviting me to testify 
today. It is a particular honor to participate in a hearing for 
a Committee I once worked for, and which I have many fond 
memories.
    To understand the state of our current economy, it is 
important to begin with the tax reforms passed in 2017. By 
cutting the corporate tax rate and allowing full deductions for 
new investments, called ``full expensing,'' the Tax Cuts and 
Jobs Act empowered businesses to expand their U.S. operations.
    These changes were particularly helpful for investment-
intensive sectors like manufacturing. The tax cuts led to 
faster growth and higher wages. Today, those same tax cuts 
continue to support a strong labor market, additional 
investment and a larger economy. Instead of building on these 
successes of the tax cuts by making 2017 reforms permanent, 
Congress has more recently done the opposite.
    Instead of letting individual Americans, investors, 
consumers, entrepreneurs determine the quantity, quality and 
location of new projects, Congress and the President have 
repeatedly inserted themselves into the private economic 
decision-making, allocating scarce resources according to their 
own design and for Washington's benefit.
    These types of centrally planned industrial policies have a 
multi-decade track record of spectacular failures. Such 
policies inevitably require more than just incentives. For 
example, generous subsidies support electric vehicles and their 
infrastructure. But the billions of dollars of support is not 
enough.
    The subsidies come with heavy-handed regulations that all 
but ban the competitors, and the administration now tells us 
that tariffs are also necessary to protect the industry from 
foreign competition. Market manipulation on one margin always 
leads a cascade of new state interventions that are not just 
windfall profits of corporate industry, but costs to American 
consumers.
    Industrial policy also breeds corruption and fraud. Past 
tax credits have resulted in schemes designed to drain the U.S. 
Treasury of hundreds of billions of dollars. These fiscal 
costs--fiscal resources lost to the programs also represent 
multi-trillion dollar opportunity costs, such as foregone 
opportunities to make more effective tax cuts permanent.
    For example, Congress chose to spend trillions of dollars 
on dubious energy subsidies in the Inflation Reduction Act, 
instead of pursuing broad-based policies like making expensing 
for research spending permanent, a policy that would have 
benefited millions of businesses and their employees all across 
America. As a result of Congress's failure, business R&D 
plummeted when expensing expired.
    I will end with the most worrying trend. The Biden 
administration is actively exporting these industrial policies 
around the world, and they are doing this over the explicit 
objections of Congress. Working through the Organization for 
Economic Cooperation and Development, the administration has 
designed the building blocks for an international tax cartel 
that targets America's most successful employers with higher 
taxes in more than 100 new countries.
    The minimum tax they have designed not only raises tax 
rates, but explicitly encourages competition with state 
subsidies. Paired with domestic U.S. corporate subsidies, the 
OECD minimum tax has prompted new industrial policies in 
countries around the world, including the European Union, South 
Korea, Japan, Israel, Germany, Vietnam, Bermuda, Singapore, 
Ireland, Taiwan, India and China, just to name a few.
    These offsetting subsidies trade no new productive economic 
activity. They simply pad the profits of big, politically 
connected firms. Congress might as well have lit a trillion 
dollars of taxpayer money on fire. At least a bonfire would not 
have fueled multiple years of high inflation.
    Which leads me to my concluding recommendations. Congress 
should reject the Biden administration-led OECD tax cartel by 
cutting its funding and withdrawing from the OECD membership. 
Congress should also reject industrial policies here at home by 
repealing the more than $3 trillion of tax subsidies, including 
those in the CHIPS Act and the Inflation Reduction Act.
    Pursuing neutral, pro-growth tax policies that support 
American employers--that support American employers by keeping 
taxes low for everyone will provide the biggest benefits to 
workers, to manufacturers, to service providers and to families 
across the country. Thank you. I look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Michel appears in the 
Submissions for the Record.]
    Chairman Heinrich. Mr. Lincicome.

    STATEMENT OF SCOTT LINCICOME, VICE PRESIDENT OF GENERAL 
  ECONOMICS AND STIEFEL TRADE POLICY CENTER, CATO INSTITUTE, 
                        WASHINGTON, D.C.

    Mr. Lincicome. Chairman Heinrich, Vice Chairman Schweikert, 
members of the Committee, thank you for having me here today. 
Industrial policy is indeed back in Washington, and supporters 
are already taking credit for an American manufacturing boom.
    Today, I will offer two notes of caution detailed in my 
written testimony. First, the recent increase in U.S. 
manufacturing investment must be put into context. Before the 
CHIPS Act and IRA were enacted, market factors had pushed 
companies to reconsider semiconductor supply chains. Private 
demand for and investment in green energy was soaring, and 
several major U.S. projects had been announced.
    It is thus unclear how much manufacturing spending today 
has been caused by instead of just coincident with new U.S. 
industrial policies. Furthermore, increases in industrial 
spending is still a relatively small share of total output and 
investment. That spending might still be important some day, 
but it is not currently an economic game-changer.
    Indeed, actual U.S. manufacturing performance has been flat 
since 2022. Private surveys have been pessimistic, and 2024 
projections are now softening. Maybe a boom eventually arrives, 
but it is just as likely we are again seeing what critics of 
targeted tax credits, subsidies, tariffs and other industrial 
policy measures have long cautioned, that they do not generate 
sustainable long-term growth, but instead just redistribute 
existing resources to favored companies at a net loss to the 
U.S. economy.
    Second, we must also consider the actual return on all 
these investments. When the government showers preferred 
industries with trade restrictions and trillions of taxpayer 
dollars, the policies will inevitably produce something in the 
real economy.
    The real question is what exactly all that government 
support is getting us. Is it generating dozens of innovative 
and globally competitive American factories and a strong U.S. 
economy, or will it produce a few more successes and many other 
failures?
    Not just unfinished projects, but entire industries 
dependent on government support, plus unintended and unseen 
costs elsewhere in the economy. Today, it is too early to say, 
but there are already warning signs here and abroad, ones we 
have seen before. Here at home, the cost of building, staffing 
and starting production of subsidized facilities has 
skyrocketed, thanks in large part to supply side barriers like 
the National Environmental Policy Act, tariffs and Buy American 
restrictions.
    High costs and other unforeseen issues have now delayed or 
cancelled many semiconductor, EV and solar projects, even some 
where construction had already begun. And there are already 
worrying signs that factories eventually completed here will 
not produce cutting edge technologies that compete globally 
without open-ended government help.
    Solar panels, for example, still cost more to make here 
than abroad, even with all the subsidies and tariffs. The 
industry's solution: even more tariffs. Finally, politics is 
again distorting industrial policy's implementation, social 
policy a tap to CHIPS Act subsidies, IRA dollars funneled to 
swing states, slow and complicated bureaucracy, election-
related investment uncertainty and of course a lobbying boom 
there on K Street.
    These and other issues remind us that there is a huge chasm 
between celebrated investment announcements and actual 
productive factories. They also show that the risk of today's 
industrial policies is that they produce small and discrete 
benefits at a massive cost, including not just a budgetary hit 
but by diverting finite taxpayer and private resources away 
from better targets.
    There are also concerns abroad, because subsidies here have 
prodded the EU, Japan and South Korea, Taiwan and India, China 
and others to offer subsidies of their own. Thousands of new 
industrial policy measures in the last year alone likely worth 
trillions of dollars.
    If history is any guide, this uncoordinated and predictable 
global subsidies race could generate gluts and trade wars that 
would undermine the very domestic investments our industrial 
policies are trying to encourage. In the end, almost everyone 
would be worse off, especially developing countries that can 
afford big subsidies and, in the case of green goods, the 
environment.
    In closing, American industrial policy has long faced 
challenges that limit its effectiveness and inflict unintended 
economic and geopolitical damage. It is too soon to conclude 
that we are following the same path today, but signs do point 
in that direction.
    Now this does not mean that Congress should just sit back 
and watch things unfold, simply hoping our trillion dollar 
gamble pays off.
    As I and Adam and others have written, there is a long list 
of proven tax, trade, regulatory, immigration and other reforms 
that Washington can and should pursue to boost strategic 
industries, and address strategic challenges. But subsidies and 
protectionism still are not on that list. Thank you, and I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Lincicome appears in the 
Submissions for the Record.]
    Chairman Heinrich. Thank you. Mr. Hostetler, I want to ask 
you a question. I was really pleased to visit Array in April 
with Secretary Granholm, to break ground on your new 
manufacturing facility. But one of the things that really 
struck me was the stories that individual folks who work for 
Array were telling about their jobs and their impact on their 
families.
    Can you talk a little bit about the kind of benefits the 
working family can access through a career in advanced 
manufacturing, and what that means for the wider community?
    Mr. Hostetler. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. As you were able 
to witness at our groundbreaking in April, the stories of our 
employees coming into this industry and those that have been in 
for some time, are enjoying very strong wages, great benefits 
and great additional education opportunities through our 
local--resources with our local community colleges.
    They are able to build a solid foundation for their family, 
and again contribute a great deal to the local economy.
    Chairman Heinrich. You know, one of the challenges we have 
in New Mexico right now is that there are so many simultaneous 
construction projects going on between the transmission that's 
being built, the manufacturing that's being stood up. Workforce 
is a real challenge. Can you talk about, a little bit about the 
relationship between the Inflation Reduction Act and your 
efforts to invest in local workforce to build that capacity?
    Mr. Hostetler. Absolutely. As I said in my prepared 
remarks, Mr. Chairman, we have been working with the local 
community college. We have provided them some additional 
systems to which they could train employees early on in how to 
build, install, maintain and control solar systems.
    We are also employing local engineers, local maintenance, a 
very wide degree of different employees in customer service, 
and all of that is geared at once again providing a very 
stable, very strong foundation for their lives in the 
community.
    Chairman Heinrich. Mr. Amarnath, talk a little bit--expand 
on how this focus on energy tech, on semiconductor production 
and infrastructure, how do those relate to the overall 
groundwork for U.S. job growth, and what does that mean for the 
future of the American middle class?
    Mr. Amarnath. Sure. So I would start with the--obviously 
the gains have come through construction investment so far, and 
so especially if you look at the labor market data, while 
manufacturing employment has recovered from the Covid Recession 
and in spite of pretty stable overall, the real gains have 
probably been more visible in other sectors, especially in 
terms of first as I said, the trades construction. But also if 
we look to the repair and maintenance and into particular 
sectors of especially engineering services and engineering and 
drafting and lab testing and there are at least a few key 
sectors, again where manufacturing and services actually go 
hand in hand, where there is a tendency to say 
``manufacturing'' and just focus on particularly that 
subsector. But I would actually encourage people to think a 
little bit more holistically about how manufacturing and 
services are pretty complimentary in these contexts.
    And especially when you think about where the good jobs 
are, right, those are jobs that are typically attached to when 
you are higher in the value chain, right, where you actually 
are at the leading edge. And that is, to my mind, the merits of 
focusing on semiconductor manufacturing, on particularly newer 
energy tech, and these are jobs that would be good jobs on the 
factory floor but also elsewhere.
    That is typically also good for--in terms of commercial 
opportunity for American businesses as well.
    Chairman Heinrich. Yeah. Many of the people in the skilled 
trades that I talked to would point out that, you know, when 
you are building these things, they are inherently temporary 
jobs. But those are the good jobs that support their middle 
class families. They are temporary. When they are standing up 
an Intel factory and then they move on to building 
transmission, and then they move on building their research 
facility at our national labs, we think of those as temporary.
    But they are really permanent jobs for those individuals. I 
want to ask you as well, you know, we have seen some of the 
supply chain that we hemorrhaged for decades, particularly to 
China but more broadly to Southeast Asia for things like--for 
solar panels, for modules, for electric motor components, for 
battery storage.
    Some of that supply chain is beginning to move back onto 
U.S. shores. How important is that, and how critical is the 
structure of a production tax credit to have incentivized that 
reshoring of critical supply chains?
    Mr. Amarnath. It definitely seems like this flurry of 
manufacturing investment that we have seen is pretty 
concentrated in terms of the timing of it, and so while I--it 
is very possible there are layers of policy supports that have 
been helpful, it definitely was unleashed all at once I would 
say, in terms of it being over a very concentrated time period.
    And that suggests that it does require a critical mass to 
get over these hurdles, and these things are--you have to get 
to actually--while I think there are actually a lot of merits 
to what some of another testimony--people have testified as far 
as having broad-based policies that are supportive of all 
industries, there is also a certain quantum of investment that 
is needed in a lot of cases, especially where you get into 
capital-intensive sectors.
    And so these are things that have clearly been helpful as 
far as seeing the surge, especially in 2022 and 2023. Again, 
this is the first phase of manufacturing investment in terms of 
structures. We obviously want to see it shore up in equipment 
and production later on, and these are obviously open questions 
that need to be tackled in real time.
    But there is clearly something that is valuable about 
having onshore supply chains that we have probably learned over 
the last few years in certain contexts, where we have had a 
knockout of auto production for two years.
    There is definitely certain things that can build in more 
resilience, and then there are things that are especially 
valuable in terms of leading edge technologies, where again, I 
think there is a lot of national security and economic security 
relevance to just being at the leading edge there.
    And then I would say at least in the context of call it 
better batteries and semiconductors, there has been evidence 
that the U.S. has fallen behind.
    Chairman Heinrich. Vice Chairman.
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Doctor, 
first off a couple of things from your testimony, your written 
testimony, and I am chasing a couple of things.
    So in my opening statement, I tried to touch on, shall we 
say, allocation cost of--because I remember the rage from our 
brothers and sisters on the left when we did tax reform, being 
a trillion and a half dollars which, as you know, Joint Tax 
missed the number by $900 billion, actually, on top of receipts 
that came in.
    But this is direct subsidies that is over two trillion, and 
the distortion factors of allocation. So my couple of questions 
are when we look at the distortion of a planned economy 
industrial policy, which the left embraced, wages, wage growth, 
the cost to society of the inflation it helped fuel, is society 
functioning poorer today?
    Will I see that the couple of trillion dollars of planned 
economy spending in workers' wages? Will the wages long-run be 
healthier and stronger, or did we actually create a--
functionally a short-term sugar high in a limited number of 
politically connected organizations?
    Dr. Michel. Thank you for the question. It is, I think, the 
second one. The chart that you--that you are holding up there 
shows the cost of the direct subsidies compared to making 
policies that were expiring at the same time, mainly business 
expensing for research and spending in physical investments 
like manufacturing facilities.
    Those policies were expiring and so--and the cost, the $2 
trillion cost of the direct subsidies, is significantly larger 
than setting neutral policy that gets out of the way of 
investment for all businesses, rather than targeted businesses 
that receive specific checks from Washington.
    And so that is why we should first get the government out 
of the way of investment before the government starts getting 
in the business of picking who is investing and where.
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. This borrowing and spending and 
its contribution to inflation. Ultimately, is society poorer?
    Dr. Michel. Yes, undoubtedly. When the government is taxing 
the money out of the economy to then redistribute, or 
borrowing--or borrowing, all of these things make us poor. 
There is deadweight loss on the tax side, there is 
inefficiencies on the spending side. Inflation is making people 
poorer----
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. So for those of us in the 
Phoenix-Scottsdale area, unless you make 26 percent more today 
than when this all began, you are poorer. Mr. Lincicome--
Lincicome. Look, you actually have a great chart in here, 
because you remember part of this hearing was titled, you know, 
the manufacturing boom.
    But if you actually look at the dot plot and say hey, here 
is where, you know, the industrial policy, the spending began, 
and the number of, you know, plans that were happening under 
existing Tax Code and considering if you actually put in the 
hiccup, as we will call it, during COVID-19, how do can you 
call this a boom?
    It might be a tighter concentration, but the fact of the 
matter is under an allocation theory of tax policy, we were 
actually doing quite well and it was a wider distribution.
    Mr. Lincicome. Right, thank you. If you look at, you know, 
the headlines around that time, whether it is in 2019, 2020, 
2021, you saw there was a lot of interest for various market-
related reasons, the pandemic, pure politics and the rest. 
There was interest in changing supply chains, changing 
sourcing, onshoring certain production of defense-related 
technologies or other critical industries.
    And you know, I think it is undeniably true we are going to 
see some sort of sugar high, some sort of investment and 
because of all of these subsidies. I mean again, we are talking 
trillions of dollars potentially in government and taxpayer 
money going to favored industries.
    But the question is not only about whether that is inducing 
that sugar high, it is what we are actually getting.
    Because in the previous, in the pre-IRA, pre-CHIPS era 
where we were seeing some of those announcements and some of 
those investments, those were not coming because somebody was 
dangling cash at a company, or they were not coming because 
there was some sort of tax credit expiring or whatever.
    They were coming because the investors saw a legitimate 
long-term investment that they wanted to make. Those are the 
types of investments we want here in the United States.
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. All right, and Doctor, I want you 
to confirm something I believe I understand. When we do it 
through sort of tax regulatory allocation theory, our policy, 
the vast majority of that goes to corporate America actually 
goes to workers' wages.
    Dr. Michel. When we are--when the Tax Code is treating 
investment neutrally through something like expensing or a 
lower corporate tax rate, most of that is shared by workers 
through higher wages, the theory--the additional investment 
leads to higher productivity, which then leads to higher wages.
    The opposite is not true. A tax credit does not have that 
same passthrough to higher wages. It primarily goes to pad the 
profits of the corporation doing----
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. Which I have always found amazing 
irony in where the two parties are, and what we say about each 
other. And yet we can demonstrate mathematically this policy 
over here is actually what helps workers, and with that, I 
yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Heinrich. Senator Welch.
    Senator Welch. Thank you--I want to thank all our 
witnesses. It is interesting listening, because really there 
are two economic philosophies at work here. There is the 
industrial policy that obviously underlies a lot of the Acts 
that have been recently passed, and there is the very strong 
free market approach, with government not being involved at 
all.
    I voted for those pieces of legislation and support them, 
and think the government does have a role. But I think that is 
really the debate as I listen to you. But I want to ask you, 
Mr. Hostetler, right?
    Mr. Hostetler. That is correct, yes.
    Senator Welch. You have to deal with--you have to deal with 
this guy in New Mexico?
    Mr. Hostetler. I do.
    Senator Welch. Well my--it is tough. It is tough.
    You know, it is really interesting what you are saying, 
because the legislation, there is some funds available for you 
to help folks learn how to do solar installations and then move 
towards providing more clean energy; correct?
    Mr. Hostetler. Yes.
    Senator Welch. The CHIPS Act also provided some funds that 
got invested in Vermont at Global Foundries, and folks there 
see that as jobs. They do not see it as the government involved 
or not involved. I mean the bottom line for them is that it is 
going to give them a new lease on life in these advanced chips.
    But tell me how it makes a difference for young people, 
whose job prospects in many of our rural communities are really 
pretty limited until they get an opportunity to do something 
that has a sustainable future?
    Mr. Hostetler. Yes, absolutely. First, I mean I would like 
to think of this as here is a great example where you separate 
the theory from practice and the reality, right? So these 
specific provisions passed within the IRA has led to a 
definitive practice of onshoring, and that is bringing jobs 
back to the U.S. that were previously done in Southeast Asia.
    That--as we discussed, that new factory will generate 50 
additional jobs that we are again onshoring back from Southeast 
Asia into the U.S. This coupled with the fact that some of the 
provisions that were outlined in the IRA provides prevailing 
wages and apprenticeship programs for all construction 
projects, which not only ensures good-paying jobs and an 
opportunity to learn a new career in what will be a sustainable 
future for the U.S., that is in the renewable energy.
    So we feel really strong about those specific provisions 
and what they are doing in terms of assuring good wages, and 
wages that will be able to be sustained over a long period of 
time.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. And you know to be fair to the 
free market argument, as a result of some of these so-called 
industrial policies and really putting a limitation on imports 
with tariffs, American consumers are going to pay a little 
more, right?
    But what I have seen is that if the whole goal is to just 
get the lowest price, then capital will go to the cheapest 
labor and pretty soon you have hollowed out communities like we 
had in Vermont, when we lost our machine tool industry. And 
coming from a rural state, I have seen that manufacturing is a 
critical part in these rural communities that have depended on 
agriculture, but had the benefit of manufacturing.
    So I guess I will ask you, Mr. Amarnath. You see some 
benefit in these policies that are being disputed about their 
economic efficacy, with having as a goal trying to bring some 
of these manufacturing jobs back to our communities.
    Mr. Amarnath. So I would say especially where it deals 
with--you are trying to rationalize particular policies for a 
particular industry, right, there is obviously places where it 
could be in excess, but it is also worth thinking about what 
types of capacities are being built up in the process, right?
    In the case of machine tooling, for example, that is a 
pretty specialized industry and where there is also--also a lot 
of evidence of where competition is not exactly fair on a 
global scale, and where there needs to be some thought given to 
what capacities are we losing in the process.
    These are people who obviously are working and they are 
earning a paycheck, but they also are developing a certain set 
of skills, a certain type of know-how. That is pretty valuable 
and very costly to lose.
    Senator Welch. Thank you. I will--my time is up, and I did 
not have a chance to address you, but I want to acknowledge 
when you do have industrial policy, you do have tax policy, 
there is going to be winners and losers. And if you are on the 
side, as I was, to support the Inflation Reduction Act, it 
really does demand of those of us who supported those policies 
that there be a hard-headed, hard-nosed assessment of what has 
been the cost and what has been the benefit.
    So your point in that respect I--I agree with. I will yield 
back and I guess Mr. Smucker you----
    Chairman Heinrich. Go ahead.
    Representative Smucker. Thank you, Senator Welch, and just 
a follow-up to some of the comments that Senator Welch just 
made, and I think--I think he aptly described, perfectly 
described the debate that we are having now, the debate that we 
will be having next year as we look extending certain 
provisions of our Tax Code and other changes that could be 
made.
    How do we design the best system to achieve what I think 
are shared goals. We want all Americans to prosper. We want the 
economy to grow. We want to encourage innovation. We want to 
promote job growth and opportunity. So I think it is a very 
valuable discussion to have.
    Mr. Hostetler, I understand or I hear the impact on your 
business, and I think your employees have benefited from that, 
you have benefited from that. But I worry about the broader 
impact on all Americans, and I think if you look at the--the 
what has happened after the IRA was passed, I think it is 
called the Inflation Resurgence Act it should be, because we 
saw inflation grow and our folks on our side have learned that 
is exactly what would happen when you expand supply that much.
    And while it is benefiting some people, I think on a much 
broader basis I have talked to people in my community who have 
not seen the benefits of some of the companies that have 
benefited, and they are hurting. It is--it is difficult for 
them sometimes to put food on the table, gas in their car.
    Prices have gone up 20 percent at least, some items much, 
much more. Since we have implemented some of these industrial 
policy items, as Senator Welch was talking about. It is painful 
for people, and you could pare that back and I will get maybe 
Mr. Lincicome, I will ask you to respond to this.
    But compare that back to the impact of the Tax Cuts and 
Jobs Act. Now that bill was not perfect, but it attempted to 
broaden the--you know, it attempted to implement good tax 
policy that provided a broad benefit, that grew the economy, 
that encouraged innovation. It is pretty difficult to look at 
that and say it did not work.
    Middle income, real household income had increased by 5,000 
per household. The economy was growing at a much faster clip 
than it had been before, which by the way helps to address, I 
think what is one of the biggest existential problems and that 
is the growing debt and the fiscal trajectory that we are on.
    And so--and more people were employed, typically 
disadvantaged populations had the lowest employment rate ever, 
and one of the numbers I am most proud of is we had the lowest 
poverty rate ever in the history of the country after just 
several years of implementation of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act.
    So Mr. Lincicome, am I looking at this correctly? Would you 
want to--do you want to expand on what I said or react to what 
I said? It seems to me there are two very clear examples of 
policy, economic policy that was put in place. We have a pretty 
good record of the impact after a few years in each case. So am 
I--you want to respond to that?
    Mr. Lincicome. Well, I mean I think you are directionally 
correct. I think the reality you have, and I think it is 
correct, that we all share the same objectives. We want good 
jobs, a strong labor market, a strong economy. The question is 
what is going to actually generate that in a sustainable way, 
while minimizing the distortions.
    Not just the economic distortions, but the political 
distortions as well, that your free market approach not only 
avoid taxing certain jobs. So we tax solar panels that hurt 
solar installation jobs; we tax, you know, half of all imports 
are manufacturing inputs. So those are inputs used by American 
manufacturers, support American jobs.
    You not only are taking from consumers and raising the 
costs and shrinking their budgets, but you also put Washington 
in charge of making decisions about what factory gets money and 
what factory does not, what place gets those dollars as well. 
And that over the long term creates enormous problems.
    I think it also creates a risk for even more subsidies and 
protectionism in the future. We had solar panels in 2012 that 
have then--tariffs in 2012 that have just steamrolled, and now 
have another solar panel tariff case now pending. The Intel CEO 
is now talking about the CHIPS ACT 2.0, just weeks after the 
first subsidies were implemented.
    These things have a way of simply sticking around forever, 
if not being expanded, because the industries that we are 
supporting are not actually globally competitive.
    Representative Smucker. I have more questions, but thank 
you Mr. Vice Chairman.
    Vice Chairman Schweikert. Thank you, Congressman Smucker. 
And I apologize to the panel and everyone in the room, because 
there is--we would love to dive down into this. We have votes 
on in the House, so it is the tyranny of the calendar.
    Please understand, I think actually there may be--I think 
even the Chairman may also have some other questions. Three 
days we have to sort of submit some additional questions to. I 
know I have a couple of allocation ones I want to send to the 
good doctor, and with that, the hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:53 p.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
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