[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
SUPPORTING GEORGIA'S SOVEREIGNTY AND DEMOCRACY
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JUNE 5, 2024
__________
Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in
Europe
[CSCE118-4]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via www.csce.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-937 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE U.S SENATE
JOE WILSON, South Carolina Chairman BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland Co-
Chairman
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Ranking
Member ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama Ranking Member
EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina TIM SCOTT, South Carolina
MICHEAL LAWLER, New York JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana TINA SMITH, Minnesota
MARC A. VEASEY, Texas THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
EXECUTIVE BRANCH
Department of State - Erin Barclay
Department of Defense - Celeste Wallander
Department of Commerce - Don Graves
C O N T E N T S
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Page
COMMISSIONERS
Hon. Joe Wilson, Chairman, from South Carolina................... 1
Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, from Tennessee................. 3
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut........................ 12
Hon. Victoria Spartz, from Indiana............................... 15
WITNESSES
Ivane Chkhikvadze, EU Integration Program Manager, Civil Society
Foundation, and Georgia Country Consultant, European Endowment
for Democracy.................................................. 5
Natalie Sabanadze, Senior Fellow, Chatham House, and former
Georgian ambassador to the EU.................................. 7
William Courtney, [ret.], Adjunct Senior Fellow, RAND
Corporation, and former U.S. Ambassador to Georgia............. 9
SUPPORTING GEORGIA'S SOVEREIGNTY AND DEMOCRACY
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COMMISSION ON SECURITY & COOPERATION IN
EUROPE,
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Tuesday, June 5, 2024.
The hearing was held from 2:16 p.m. to 3:20 p.m., Room 210,
Cannon House Office Building, Representative Joe Wilson [R-SC],
Chairman, Commission for Security and Cooperation in Europe,
presiding.
Committee Members Present: Representative Joe Wilson [R-
SC], Chairman; Representative Steve Cohen [D-TN], Ranking
Member; Senator Richard Blumenthal [D-CT]; Representative
Victoria Spartz [R-IN].
Witnesses: Ivane Chkhikvadze, EU Integration Program
Manager, Civil Society Foundation, and Georgia Country
Consultant, European Endowment for Democracy; Natalie
Sabanadze, Senior Fellow, Chatham House, and former Georgian
ambassador to the EU; Ambassador [ret.] William Courtney,
Adjunct Senior Fellow, RAND Corporation, and former U.S.
Ambassador to Georgia.
OPENING STATEMENT OF JOE WILSON, CHAIRMAN, U.S. HOUSE, FROM
SOUTH CAROLINA
Chairman Wilson: [Sounds gavel.] Ladies and gentlemen, good
afternoon. I am Congressman Joe Wilson, the chairman of the
Helsinki Commission. I am very grateful to be here today. On
behalf of the United States Helsinki Commission, I want to
welcome everyone here and thank you for joining us today for
this very important hearing.
Thank goodness that we have really talented staff who know
how to move microphones. [Laughter.]
This hearing comes at a critical moment for the nation of
Georgia. Since it regained its independence in 1991 the United
States and Georgia have come to a close, inseparable
relationship based on the shared vision of democratic
principles and a strong and free Euro-Atlantic.
Our two countries have worked closely together to develop
deep and far-reaching reforms in Georgia, spurring investment
and economic development, and we have worked side by side for
the common cause of regional and European peace. Our soldiers
have fought together in Afghanistan, Iraq, and beyond, and the
United States has contributed over six billion in direct
assistance and much more to provide opportunities and open
horizons for the Georgian people.
The United States, along with our colleagues in Europe,
have long, strong, and steadfast friends through the people of
Georgia. Unfortunately, this powerful bond has recently come
under a withering attack by the ruling Georgian Dream Party led
by the billionaire founder Bidzina Ivanishvili.
The Georgian Dream government has openly renounced their
long-standing democratic and Euro-Atlantic choice of the
Georgian people, ramming a Putin-esque style foreign agent law
through parliament despite months of mass protests, as you see
from the posters behind us, and damning public opinion.
This law is openly intended to stigmatize and undermine the
nation's independent civil society and media and suppress
avenues for alternative thought or dissent. Worse, this foreign
agent law appears to be only the tip of the iceberg of the
government's anti-democratic turn.
Additional policies and legislation are gutting the
independent remaining vestiges of the Central Election
Commission, finalizing the capture of the beleaguered judiciary
and civil society actors and activists as well as their
families as being actively threatened, intimidated, and even
assaulted by government-linked thugs.
Opposition offices have been raided, destroyed, and with
graffiti vandalized. Georgian Dream is actively embracing war
criminal Putin and other authoritarians despite Putin occupying
20 percent of its internationally recognized territory and it
illegally seized that territory in a longer brutal history of
colonial Soviet subjugation and aggression.
The ruling party has found common cause with war criminal
Putin, which has been all too happy to cosign Georgia Dream's
conspiracy-riddled anti-Western turn. Russian intelligence
assets operate in Georgia with impunity. Georgia's security
services have been turned on the population while Georgian
sovereignty has been bargained away to the Russian empire for
the cheap baubles of power and material gain.
Georgian Dream is also expanding its ties with the Chinese
Communist Party rapidly and handing over key infrastructure to
the People's Liberation Army military-linked companies as
another aspect of his dictatorial turn. The United States must
not allow this attack on Georgian democracy and its Euro-
Atlantic future to go unanswered. That is why I welcomed the
State Department's recent announcement of a visa ban policy
against any individual undermining Georgian democracy.
We must do more to keep our promises to the people of
Georgia. I am grateful to introduce the MEGOBARI Act along with
my colleagues and friends of the nation of Georgia Ranking
Member Steve Cohen, Congressman Richard Hudson of North
Carolina, and Congressman Marc Veasey of Texas. Bipartisan.
This legislation will provide the State Department with
additional tools and guidance for promulgating visa
restrictions and financial sanctions against those who
undermine Georgian democracy and engage in repressive measures
against the Georgian people.
It will also produce reporting to highlight the extent of
Russian and Chinese malign influence in Georgia and the way
those efforts have become closely intertwined with key
individuals in Georgia. It also will require the administration
to move quickly to establish a pre-election task force in
Georgia to work urgently to help protect the democratic
environment ahead of the October 2024 elections.
Additionally, the spirit of the MEGOBARI bill highlights a
more robust and positive framework for U.S.-Georgia bilateral
relations. That is why the legislation calls for expanded trade
ties, streamlined people-to-people contacts, and robust
economic and security assistance packages when the Georgian
government returns to the long-standing democratic and Euro-
Atlantic choice of its people.
It is critical to show the Georgian Dream that we are
serious about our support for the Georgian population with whom
we seek to continue a positive and collaborative future. I am
pleased to say that the MEGOBARI Act has strong bipartisan
support and we are grateful to welcome endorsements from
Freedom House, the Georgian Association of the USA who are here
today in dynamic leadership. We appreciate you being here.
The Central and East European coalition Razom, which has
been so effective in promoting freedom and democracy for the
people of Ukraine, the North Caucasus Nations Committee, and
others. I look forward to working with Commissioner Jeanne
Shaheen to combine our efforts for the tremendous people of
Georgia.
Today we will hear from some of the leading experts in
Georgia about this dynamic and worrying situation. I am pleased
to welcome Ivane Chkhikvadze who is here in the middle --thank
you--who is the European Union integration program manager at
the Civil Society Foundation in Tbilisi and a Georgia country
consultant for the European Endowment for Democracy; Ambassador
Natalie Sabanadze, who is a senior fellow at Chatham House, the
Royal Institute of International Affairs in London, the former
Georgian ambassador to the European Union, and a former senior
official at the OSCE; and Ambassador William Courtney, an
adjunct fellow at the RAND Corporation and a former U.S.
ambassador to Georgia.
We are grateful for your presence and your testimony today,
and before we hear from our witnesses I would like to give the
floor to my very honored colleague Congressman Steve Cohen, the
ranking member from Tennessee.
STATEMENT OF STEVE COHEN, RANKING MEMBER, U.S. HOUSE, FROM
TENNESSEE
Representative Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to
all the folks in attendance here. This is a very important
issue for the United States and for the world. Our witnesses
will enlighten us on what has been occurring in Georgia and
what the impact is on the world and freedom.
I happened to have been in Georgia in 2012, I believe it
was when the Georgia Dream came to power, and at the time Mr.
Ivanishvili gave the impression that he was going to be a
reformer and it was, indeed, a dream and a good dream. Mr.
Saakashvili was running a pretty draconian prison system and
had quite a bit of opposition because of the lack of liberties
that he was seeing for people in prison and the use of the
prison system to punish folks.
Mr. Ivanishvili has held power now for 12 years, and while
he is not the prime minister or the president he is the man. He
runs the show. I do not like to necessarily judge people by the
way I see them and the first time I see them, but the first
time I saw him I thought, this is no dream. He looked like so
many corporate businesspeople who want to run everything and
autocrat types and powerful folks who are looking for a
government as a way to expand their desires and interests and
fulfill their destiny as they see it, and I think he has proved
that to be true. That first glimpse, I think, was appropriate.
Mr. Saakashvili now I think resides in jail, has been there
for quite a while, and is treated pretty awfully. I am the OSCE
special representative on political prisoners. I am concerned
about Mr. Saakashvili, who is a political prisoner. He has, I
think, been in very ill health and his life may be in danger.
This law that was just passed it was said that they wanted
to make sure that there were not foreign agents dealing in
Georgia. What it was, I think, it is not so much foreign agents
as they labeled civil groups and NGOs but transparency and
freedoms which the NGOs encourage and espouse.
They are not really interested in that. They are interested
in government control. A country that tries to bully its NGOs
is a country that is not a democracy. It is not Western values.
Georgia, obviously, we know wants to join the European Union.
That would be good for them economically. They would like to--I
guess they would like to be in NATO. I do not know.
Ms. Sabanadze: Yes.
Representative Cohen: Okay, good. Yes. [Laughter.]
They are not--their being so close to Russia, and they
should have learned from South Ossetia Russia is not their
friend. Of course, they still have a reverence for Stalin. I
went up to--what is the name of the--it starts with a G, maybe.
Chairman Wilson: Gori.
Representative Cohen: Gori went to the Stalin Museum. It is
kind of interesting to see that and he has kind of come back
and always looked upon as a Georgian that had done good. Well,
he did good. He did bad and that is how he did good. Kind of a
mix. They seem to have somewhat of a reverence for him.
I would like to--I am just looking forward to hearing from
the witnesses where is Saakashvili and how is he--what is his
conditions if you know and, Ambassador, you probably have
knowledge on that and appreciate your being here to edify us.
I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Ranking Member Steve
Cohen of Tennessee.
As we begin today, I would like to ask for unanimous
consent. We have a letter submitted for the record from the
leader of the Georgian Labor Party Shalva Natelashvili, and so
without objection, this shall be entered into the record.
We will now begin with each witness and my goal is that
each have five minutes and then we will proceed, and we will
have members of Congress and Senate and the House coming back
and forth. To give everybody time, we could limit it to five
minutes each, and then equally, we are limited to five minutes
each, too.
With this in mind, I would like to begin with Ivane
Chkhikvadze and so thank you very much for your being here
today.
TESTIMONY OF IVANE CHKHIKVADZE, EU INTEGRATION PROGRAM MANAGER,
CIVIL SOCIETY FOUNDATION, AND GEORGIA COUNTRY CONSULTANT,
EUROPEAN ENDOWMENT FOR DEMOCRACY
Mr. Chkhikvadze: Thank you, Chairman Wilson and honorary
members of the Commission. Allow me please to express my
genuine appreciation for holding this very timely and important
hearing and also giving me the opportunity to address the
distinguished guests and participants of this meeting.
I would like to focus your attention on the latest
developments in Georgia regarding democratic backsliding, which
is taking place in the country, with a particular emphasis on
the adoption of the Russian-style law on transparency of
foreign influence that the ruling Georgian Dream Party recently
adopted.
First, allow me to present myself. I am Ivane Chkhikvadze,
as it was already mentioned here, and I have been working as a
leader of the EU integration program at the Civil Society
Foundation for more than 10 years, and together with my
colleagues, some of them are here, we have been supporting and
promoting Georgia's Europeanization and democratization process
for decades.
We have spent almost entire our lives fighting for
Georgia's freedom, democracy, and the future, that is, with
Europe and with the West, and now when it comes to the topic of
today's hearing my country and my people are standing at the
crossing point.
Georgia will either continue its stride to become part of a
free whole of Europe or yet again become part of Russia's
backyard as it was during the Soviet times. The choice of
Georgian people is crystal clear. We are choosing freedom,
democracy, rule of law, and see Georgia's future in the
European Union and NATO.
As I am speaking here now the Georgian people are taking to
the streets of Tbilisi and other towns of Georgia to ensure the
country's freedom and democracy. While the loud voice of
Georgian people has been heard here in Washington, D.C., and in
the capitals of the European Union it has not been heard by the
ruling party Georgian Dream.
Contrary to the will of the people the Georgian authorities
are erecting the wall between Georgia and the West through
adopting the law on transparency of foreign influence. The law
will fully erase the critical voices and destroy the vibrant
civil society that has been built in the country with the
generous support of our friends and partners over the years
including the U.S. Agency for International Development.
The law goes against the U.S.-Georgia charter and strategic
partnership that aims to bolster independent media, freedom of
expression, and access to objective news and information. This
law requires all organizations which receive more than 20
percent of their funding from abroad to register as agents of
foreign influence, and in cases they refuse the law envisages
forced registration and crippling fines.
The law applies not only to organizations but also to
individuals. It would allow the state institutions to demand
and access sensitive personal data of private citizens and
seize their assets without due process.
In less than five months Georgia will have crucial general
elections. There is a high threat that these elections will
take place without critical media, independent civil society,
and local election observers. The law depicts civil society
activists as traitors to the country and foreign agents and is
being used by the ruling party to discredit the organizations
and individuals that could otherwise help to preserve Georgia's
democracy in October.
Even before the formal implementation of the law, many
peaceful protesters have already been facing state-promoted
terror. Hundreds of peaceful protesters have been arrested and
beaten up and civil society experts like myself face regular
threats against our lives and our families. Graffitis and
posters, which one is here as you can see, with terms such as
"enemy of the nation" and "a foreign agent lives here" are
appearing at the offices and private homes of pro-democracy
activists.
Unidentified assailants have ambushed thousands of
activists with impunity. Despite hundreds of arrests of
peaceful protesters there has not been a single case where the
state authorities effectively investigated and held accountable
officials for excessive use of force or their responsibility
for assaulting protest participants.
It is clear that these types of actions are fully condoned
or even encouraged by the ruling party. I would remiss if I did
not mention one of the key drivers behind the foreign agent law
which is the richest man in Georgia, the oligarch Bidzina
Ivanishvili. Mr. Ivanishvili, the founder and the leader of the
Georgian Dream Party, in his recent speech on April 29 openly
threatened civil society and any political opponents of the
Georgian Dream with repressions.
The ruling party is severely undermining Georgia's future
through increasing hostility towards Western democratic values
and capturing the state institutions such as judiciary, law
enforcement, prosecutor's office, et cetera. All Georgian
governments since the restoration of its independence in 1991
have been pursuing membership in the European Union and NATO
and closer ties with the United States.
The ruling party is the only government that is going
against the will of the people and now is seeking to oppress
them for wanting a closer alignment with Western democrats. The
overwhelming majority of the Georgian society says its future
in Europe is without Western friends--with Western friends and
with the United States. The history of Georgia shows that
fighting for freedom is part of our life. We know that we are
fighting for our ancestors and also for our future generations
and hold no desire to lose it.
We acknowledge that we are not alone in this fight. We see
and appreciate that our Western friends and allies are standing
with us. In this regard, we value the recently initiated bill
entitled MEGOBARI Act and I sincerely hope that this
legislation will be adopted and enacted soon.
We are now in a race against time and every minute counts
when it comes to stopping Georgia's turn away from democracy.
The stakes are very high for Georgia, Georgian people, and for
our friends. It would be a real missed opportunity if Western
friends of Georgia do not act now.
We appreciate always all statements and supporting words.
At the same time, we need concrete steps that will stop the
current Georgian government from moving the country into the
Russian orbit. The Georgian government cannot be allowed to
sabotage our hard-fought democracy without consequences.
Let me take this opportunity again to express my genuine
appreciation for organizing this very timely and important
hearing and I will be happy to address your questions.
Thanks for your invitation.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chkhikvadze.
We now proceed to Dr. Natalie Sabanadze.
TESTIMONY OF NATALIE SABANADZE, SENIOR FELLOW, CHATHAM HOUSE,
AND FORMER GEORGIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE EU
Ms. Sabanadze: Thank you, Chair, honorable members of the
Commission.
Being able to address you today is a rare privilege and a
great responsibility, first, because I am deeply honored and,
second because I hope to do justice to the courage of thousands
of my countrymen who are out in the streets defending their
rights, their liberty, and their European future.
If Georgia still feels like a free country it is thanks to
popular resistance to authoritarianism and the spirit of
defiance that is vividly manifested today. Popular protest is
an antidote to political apathy but more so it is a response to
the blocked arteries of public institutions.
When institutional channels for voicing dissent or
achieving change are closed mass protest is the only available
form of civil engagement. In response, Georgia's increasingly
insecure ruling regime is reviving the Stalinist playbook and
hunting treasonous agents inside and global enemies outside.
Violence and intimidation rule the day and conciliation is
not an offer. In today's Georgia democracy is being destroyed
by the hands of parliamentary supermajority. At the instruction
of one unaccountable man, the supermajority is reversing
George's long-standing foreign policy priorities.
It is destroying 30 years of gains, friendships, and
partnerships that have sustained us since the end of Soviet
rule. By adopting laws such as the one on transparency on
foreign influence the ruling regime is subverting Georgia's
long-standing dream to rejoin the European family of free
nations while blatantly denying that it is doing anything of
the sort.
As if in an Orwellian dystopia Georgians are being told
that friends are enemies who wish war and destruction on us
while enemies who occupy parts of the country are no longer a
threat. Georgia's rulers maintain that a law that contradicts
the principles of democracy and human rights is good for us.
They insist that it will only advance rather than derail
Georgia's European integration despite endless pronouncements
from European officials to the contrary.
Having spoken to many international partners, and having
read the Venice Commission's and OSCE's highly negative yet
detailed assessment, Georgia's rulers insist that they have not
heard a single valid argument against their new legislation in
the runup to parliamentary elections this fall. In this
dialogue [of the death ?], truth falls victim. Black is white
and white is black. Transparency and accountability are
transformed into means of arbitrary persecution. Calls by well-
meaning European partners for depolarization become
justification for silencing opponents and stifling dissent.
Ladies and gentlemen, at stake, is not just a law. The law
is a symptom, not the cause, of the current political crisis,
and Georgia is part of the trend, not an exception. Autocratic
regimes from Russia to Venezuela are adopting such legislation
to equip themselves with the legal instruments of repression to
destroy civil society not only through imprisonment and
violence but also through financial audits and technically
lawful harassment.
They are working to steal elections, not on the day of the
vote with crude ballot stuffing but weeks and months in advance
with elaborate systems of incentives and pressures. The methods
set by autocracies are becoming more sophisticated, and more
veiled in vocabularies of sovereignty and traditional values.
Civic protest movements now tend to be described as color
revolutions, the work of outsiders and of local traitors who
are manipulated by foreign governments.
These tactics aim at persuading people to stay out of
politics and to trade their freedom for order, their rights for
a chance to prosperity, and to accept the abuse of power for
the sake of preserving the peace.
The Georgian government has joined the anti-liberal anti-
Western revolt spearheaded by Russia. In its war on Ukraine
Russia does not seek only to subjugate the Ukrainian nation and
to reestablish its sphere of influence. It also seeks to de-
Westernize the global order. Ukraine is a major front while
lesser ones have emerged in Georgia and elsewhere around the
world.
Recent policies of the Georgian government such as the
foreign agents legislation, the handing over of critical
infrastructure projects to the Chinese, the parroting of the
Russian narrative about the decadent West, and the adherence to
calls for de-dollarization of the global economy are all signs
of this transformation.
Make no mistake, in this battle, the Georgian people and
its government stand on opposite sides. This is why the aptly
named MEGOBARI Act is so important. Georgians must fight this
fight for themselves as we have been doing.
We need friends. Those who disregard our peaceful and
democratic will and who deny us the future we want for our
children need to bear the consequences. Georgia as a country
deserves your continued support. Individuals who decided to
turn us into Russia's grey zone for their shady business deals
have to be punished.
This is part of a global fight. If the world is to be
divided by a new Iron Curtain once more then help us in our
struggle not to end up on the wrong side again.
Thank you.
Chairman Wilson: Dr. Sabanadze, thank you so much.
We now proceed to Ambassador William Courtney.
TESTIMONY OF WILLIAM COURTNEY, [RET.], ADJUNCT SENIOR FELLOW,
RAND CORPORATION, AND FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO GEORGIA
Mr. Courtney: Thank you, Chairman Wilson, Ranking Member
Cohen.
I am grateful for the opportunity to testify regarding--
[off mic]--and address the U.S. interests in Georgia, review
U.S.--Georgian relations, and comment on implications.
The United States has voiced strong support for the
sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of Georgia
since its independence. The U.S. seeks to protect the interests
of thousands of American citizens who live in or visit Georgia
and the U.S. businesses and NGOs.
The United States wants to continue cooperation to ensure
that critical components of Russia's war on Ukraine do not pass
through Georgia. Other law enforcement cooperation includes
countering nuclear smuggling and terrorism.
The United States supports independent Georgian NGOs that
work to strengthen the country's democratic institutions, an
open trading route through Georgia as a lifeline for Armenia.
The United States is concerned about Russia's plans for a naval
base in occupied Abkhazia.
After the traumatic civil war in the early 1990s, President
Eduard Shevardnadze managed to stabilize Georgia. The U.S.
helped by providing large-scale humanitarian Food for Peace
aid. Shevardnadze and his young allies made reforms but over
time their momentum slowed.
In 2003 unrest led to the Rose Revolution. Its leader,
Mikheil Saakashvili, led a government that undertook anti-
corruption reforms and built state institutions. Some 30,000
Georgian troops fought alongside U.S. forces in Iraq and
Afghanistan.
In 2005, President George W. Bush visited and declared
Georgia a beacon of democracy--sorry, a beacon of liberty. In
2008, Russian forces invaded. The U.S. provided one billion in
aid to help Georgia rebuild.
In the 2012 elections, the Georgian Dream coalition funded
by Bidzina Ivanishvili, as you mentioned, defeated
Saakashvili's party. In 2020, however, virtually all opposition
parties boycotted parliament to protest against alleged
election violations. Georgian Dream was angered by U.S.
sanctions against officials engaging in illicit conduct.
In recent years Georgian Dream has taken a more pro-Russian
and anti-democratic course. A recent law could make Georgia a
tax haven for dark money, as you mentioned. A foreign agent law
modeled on the repressive Russian law has sparked the largest
popular protests since independence.
Georgian Dream may abuse the law to protect its hold on
power. A new report by the German Marshall Fund foresees
political violence around parliamentary elections in October.
For nearly three decades a values-based partnership has been at
the core of U.S.-Georgian relations. Now prospects are dimming.
The U.S. has announced a more restrictive visa policy for
those who suppress civil society. Relations will take a turn
for the worse if Georgian Dream rigs the October elections. As
in Russia, the government might deny access to independent
election monitors; ban advertising in, quote, "foreign agent,"
end quote, media; and disqualify candidates.
Georgian Dream could emulate Russia in other ways. It may
ban organizations it deems as undesirable. Ivanishvili
threatens that Saakashvili's party will strictly answer for all
its crimes. This hints at show trials.
Targeted sanctions might raise costs to Ivanishvili and
Georgian Dream of further repressive measures. The United
States could specify more individuals as specially designated
nationals, blocking their assets and prohibiting Americans from
dealing with them. Coordinated U.S. and European measures are
best. The leverage of the EU has a special weight. Germany says
the European Union will not start accession negotiations so
long as the foreign agent law is in effect.
Polls show that large majorities of Georgians back EU
membership and see Russia as the greatest political threat.
These encouraging views and three decades of democratic
progress in Western ties will influence Georgia's future. Too,
in a negative way will Russia's occupation of one-fifth of
Georgia's territory.
In closing, Georgians will not be denied their democratic
and European futures and the West will not be deterred from
helping them achieve these noble ambitions. Thank you.
Chairman Wilson: Ambassador, thank you very much. We have
been joined by Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut.
Just as we begin now with questions, we will be limiting
ourselves to five minutes each and then very likely we will
also be joined by other members and, in fact, a superstar just
walked in, Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, who was born in the
USSR. She was actually born in Ukraine and now is a member of
Congress in the United States from Indiana.
With this in mind, the five minutes now begins with me so
begin the five-minute clock. Here we go.
I actually want to begin in a very positive way. I am
grateful to be joined by one of my grandsons today, Houston
Wilson. Our family appreciates the people of Georgia and that
his dad served with Georgian troops in Iraq. His dad is a Navy
orthopedic surgeon and I know that he always was so
appreciative of the courageous Georgian troops. You could count
on them to provide the best security. Then, again, I am
grateful that Houston is here as an intern with U.S. Senator
Tim Scott.
As we begin, too--
Representative Cohen: Would you like Houston to come sit
behind you like Representative Rose's son? [Laughter.]
Chairman Wilson: No, we are not doing that. See, I told you
all what a troublemaker the ranking member is. It is just a--
no, hey, you have to see that. That was a--they do not allow
this in the U.S. Senate, but in the House, we had a spectacle
yesterday of a House member speaking with his son behind him
who was actually communicating with his brother at home with
different facial expressions that were somewhat distracting.
Anyway, back to what we are doing, okay? [Laughter.]
Hey, I had a wonderful visit to Tbilisi. The people are
inspiring, how beautiful the countryside is, and then very
humbling to Americans who see buildings hundreds and hundreds
of years old and it just--the antiquities are such a reminder
of what a great heritage the people of Georgia have and how it
can be built upon.
Then it was particularly interesting to me to be there with
a joint parachute jump with--there were National Guard members
from the state of Georgia who in a joint jump with troops from
the nation of Georgia and as--when they landed and we were able
to greet them and thank them for their service you had to look
very carefully on the patch to see if it was the United States
flag or the flag of the nation of Georgia because they--it was
just really humbling to see how well--but it is part of
something that is occurred and that is a friendship between the
United States and Georgia.
Mr. Chkhikvadze, a question I have for each of you and with
the limited time, but what has America actually done to assist
the people of Georgia over the years?
Mr. Chkhikvadze: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I think that you already provided some information at the
beginning of our discussion, although support has been
appreciated and provided by the United States, first and
foremost, a lot has been done when it comes to the military
support training and equipment of our military forces and also
we do see and appreciate when it comes to the democratic
support every--annually and every year.
I think that this is something which is--as I mentioned at
the beginning, which is something which is also at stake, and
this support--I mean, the support to the people, to the
Georgian society and Georgian country should be there. This is
very much appreciated, very much supported, and very much
welcomed.
At the same time, as it was already repeated--my colleagues
here--I think that those who are undermining the U.S.--Georgia
partnership and also the future of Georgia towards the European
Union they have to bear the responsibility.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you.
Dr. Sabanadze?
Ms. Sabanadze: Thank you.
Well, basically, since the regaining of independence United
States has been supporting Georgia on its path to
democratization and to European and Euro-Atlantic integration.
It was mentioned here that every single government, despite of
its color, despite of its problems, ups and downs, there has
been one constant in Georgian foreign policy and that has been
a drive towards the West and that drive has been very much
supported by you.
It was mentioned also that in the very difficult years in
the 1990s, humanitarian assistance helped thousands in Georgia
to survive and then the U.S. assistance helped Georgia to
consolidate as a state, to consolidate its institutions, and to
help promote democracy and promote civil society.
In fact, the reason why we have such a vibrant civil
society is thanks to your assistance and assistance of our
European partners, and when I said that what Putin is doing at
the global scale, which is to de-Westernize the global order,
these kind of laws the Georgian government is now adopting aim
at de-Westernization of Georgia.
That is why these things are connected. Thank you.
Chairman Wilson: I am going to--we are going to have a
second round so I will get with Ambassador Courtney at that
time.
Indeed, we are in a global conflict that you have
identified as dictators with the rule of gun invading
democracies with the rule of law. Sadly, it was somewhat begun
in 2008 with the illegal annexation of South Ossetia and
Abkhazia.
We are now--we can talk about bicameral. Well, we are going
to prove it right now in that we have House and Senate, we have
Republicans--Democrats and Republicans--and so this is a unique
Commission in that it is bicameral and bipartisan.
Senator Blumenthal?
STATEMENT OF RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, U.S. SENATE, FROM CONNECTICUT
Senator Blumenthal: Thank you, Chairman Wilson, and thank
you to our very distinguished witnesses today.
This issue is of tremendous importance, I think, to the
American people. We need to make them more aware of it and that
is why I am grateful to the bipartisan leadership of the
Helsinki Commission--Chairman Wilson, Representative Cohen, and
the entire Commission--for focusing on Georgia.
I was part of a letter with Senate colleagues written
recently to the Georgian prime minister about the proposed
foreign agent law that would force nongovernmental
organizations and independent media that receive more than 20
percent of their funding from foreign donors to register as
foreign agents and I am deeply disappointed that this measure
has been signed into law despite significant protests from the
Georgian people.
I think it is just one example of how autocratic
subjugation of freedom and independence in those areas is
languishing and I think it undermines our relationship with
Georgia.
I would like to hear from our witnesses how you assess how
effective this new law has been in, in effect, discouraging or
deterring or degrading the kinds of organizations that pose
alternatives to the government.
Maybe we begin with you, Mr. Ambassador.
Mr. Courtney: Thank you, Senator.
The law has just come into effect. The best way to assess
how the Georgian Dream is likely to use it is to look at what
happened in Russia. In 2012 Russia passed a foreign agent law
and then started banning independent media, for example, from
receiving commercial advertising. Used the law to disqualify
candidates for election.
Russia--Putin did not think that was enough so in 2015
Russia passed an undesirable organization law. Russia has used
the two of them together plus cynical means of implementing
them basically to wipe out independent civil society in Russia.
In Georgia, we may or may not be at the bottom. The
downward spiral could continue if Georgia follows the path that
Russia took after passing its foreign agent law.
Senator Blumenthal: Thank you.
Dr. Sabanadze?
Ms. Sabanadze: Yes, I would agree with that. I think the
law only recently has been enacted so it is a little bit early
to see its effect. In fact, we can see the rhetoric that
surrounded the adoption of this law. It had not been passed yet
and yet the entire hierarchy of the ruling party was accusing
basically everybody with a different opinion of being either a
foreign agent or a traitor.
It will and has unleashed a campaign of intimidation, which
is extremely disconcerting. This law violates many principles
of international law and the Georgian constitution but most
importantly it stigmatizes organizations, media, and
individuals for promoting Georgia's democratic, independent,
and pro-European future and it stigmatizes them calling them
foreign agents.
It is an extremely difficult label to carry so a lot of
organizations will simply shut down. The fines are
disproportionate and they will impact gravely because this is
not a very rich civil society. I mean, and it is actually very
transparent all the funding. They will have to close down and,
of course, it contradicts the principles of freedom of
association and freedom of expression.
It also has violated due process because the adoption of
the law was rushed through. The third reading took a grand
total of sixty-seven seconds and there has been no
consultation, no public debate. In fact, we know what it caused
and it simply added to polarization.
I think the signs so far are pretty bad and we do fear that
unless there is a very--a response there will be more crackdown
on freedoms and individual rights.
Senator Blumenthal: I do not know whether we have time for
Mr. Chkhikvadze.
Mr. Chkhikvadze: I will try to be short. I think that one
of the biggest challenge here is discrimination and
discreditation of those organizations which have been promoting
democracy there. The Ministry of Justice is supposed to set up
the list, the registry where all the organizations are supposed
to register. Registration is something that civil society
organizations, most of them, are not going to do because this
is absolutely unlawful and unjustified.
Then there will be the fines and there will be also the
blocking of the accounts and this would be a big blow to the
country's democracy. This is what we are facing and this is
happening five months before the general elections in the
country.
Senator Blumenthal: Thank you. Thank you, Mr.--
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Senator.
We now proceed to Ranking Member Steve Cohen of Tennessee.
Representative Cohen: Thank you. Let me ask you--maybe we
could start with Dr. Sabanadze. I asked the question earlier--
and I thought I knew the answer and we got a little help--that
there is a great desire to be part of the European Union and
NATO and go Western and I heard that from everybody.
Yet, Ivanishvili does not necessarily agree with that. Am I
not correct?
Ms. Sabanadze: Well, the truth is that our government and
Mr. Ivanishvili know very well that about 80 percent of the
population support Georgia's membership in the European Union
and a little bit less but it is above 70 percent support
membership in the NATO.
For any political force to come out and openly say that
they are against it will be a political suicide. That is why we
have this kind of dystopian situation where the government
pursues policies that openly contradict European values and
undermine our chances for European integration while at the
same time saying that nothing has changed, and that EU and NATO
remain Georgia's priorities.
This is the problem. I do not think they want to do it. I
do not think that they will take steps. There are nine
suggestions there tabled for us to pursue and instead, we are
adopting these Russian laws that do not serve Georgia's
interest and definitely do not serve Georgia's European
prospects. They maintain--
Representative Cohen: Are you saying Ivanishvili does a
good job of hiding his--
Ms. Sabanadze: Yes. He is hiding behind the propaganda and
very often he is positing the choice to the Georgian people
between far away European integration prospects and peace,
between prosperity now and protection of human rights. It is a
devil's bargain and this is what he is offering, and it is
really, really veiled with the propaganda, veiled in the
language of sovereignty, in the language of traditional values.
This is a Russian playbook, and we need to call his bluff.
Representative Cohen: Let me ask you, and if you do not--
cannot help me one of the gentlemen might be able to help me.
Tell me to the best of your knowledge what Saakashvili's
condition is--his health, his prison term, the support he might
have in the country.
Ms. Sabanadze: His support, I think, is best measured by
the support for his party, which is UNM. According to polls, it
is something between 10 percent to 15 percent, which has been
quite consistent. I think his health is improving. He is not in
prison. He is in a hospital, and the latest judgment from the
European Court of Human Rights has been that his conditions are
decent.
Representative Cohen: Does anybody have anything different?
Different prognosis? Diagnosis? Treatment? Nothing?
Ambassador Courtney, what years were you in Georgia? What
years were you an ambassador?
Mr. Courtney: I was there from 1995 to 1997. I was our
second ambassador.
Representative Cohen: Okay. Things have changed. I yield
back the balance of my time.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congressman.
We now proceed to Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana.
STATEMENT OF VICTORIA SPARTZ, U.S. HOUSE, FROM RHODE ISLAND
Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I just kind of have a few questions to just follow up on
what you mentioned. I think, Dr. Sabanadze, you mentioned it is
a Russian playbook and the Russian playbook did not work in
Russia very well. You know, a lot of people do not realize
that, you know, really aggression--Russian aggressions pretty
much started in 2008, you know, under Republican
administration. Then continued under Democrat administrations,
and it is continuous and, you know, they advance quite a bit.
The lay of the land is not the best, and the West has been
extremely, extremely weak in dealing with this situation. From
your assessment, you know, just understanding the situation in
Georgian politics--and I am not even--will try to claim my
understanding on this issue--but what do you think the things
need to happen and we--as Americans, we should do to really
start dealing with this situation? Because it is escalating
further and further, and it is not going to get better. From
your perspective, what needs to happen with what we are doing
or not doing related to Georgia right now?
Ms. Sabanadze: Thank you. It is a million-dollar question
and a difficult one to answer, of course. As you say it has a
local Georgia dimension--American policy towards Georgia--and
it also has a global dimension which is U.S. policy towards
Russia because these two are interconnected.
If Russia succeeds Georgia will turn into a gray zone,
which I mentioned, and Russia will be able to benefit from the
transit routes. Russia will be able to benefit from
infrastructure. It does not have to invade again Georgia. It
only needs to control it through local government.
Georgia will be turning away from the West, and we see this
happening already, the kind of multi-vectoring of Georgia's
foreign policy, which has never been the case before --
rapprochement with Russia despite 2008 and despite the
occupation of Georgian territories, strategic partnership with
China, and so on and so forth.
Russia's war against Ukraine has enabled autocrats around
the world and leaders such as we have to challenge rules,
challenge democracy at home, maximize power, and think that
they can go unpunished. Here is the second part and that is to
impose consequences for this because like Ukraine Georgia is
also a battleground, and in Ukraine, you have--
Representative Spartz: What--if you can give me some
examples, you know, just kind of concrete things that you
believe that we have mechanisms to start kind of you know--
[laughs]--be a little bit maybe tougher, maybe tougher on some
of these issues. What consequences you think would be effective
to say these governments need to decide which sides they are
taking?
Ms. Sabanadze: There are punitive measures such as
sanctions that I think have to be targeted and individuals need
to bear responsibility and these include visa bans. These
include financial sanctions--you know, their inability to send
their children to study in expensive universities here in this
country. These affect individual lives and they are
individually responsible.
I think this should not affect support in general because,
on the contrary, Georgia and Georgian civil society, and media,
need greater support today, and I also believe that one policy
choice would be to look at the election situation very closely
and to think about the election observation in long term
because, as I said, methods are getting sophisticated.
It is not so obvious that you see--I mean, they may be but,
you know, there is a long system of completely unraveling the
political playing field in a way that basically elections
become useless, that this is a foregone conclusion.
There will be a competition because Georgians--there are
parties, and they will be contested. This contestation will
only give legitimacy but not provide for a real change. This is
something that needs to be looked at.
Representative Spartz: Right. Sanction some individuals
particularly and then also, look at the election. This
Commission has an observation function and I actually always
think it is problematic that we do not look-- that they take--
do not take risk-based approach how we deal with elections and
potential abuses, not, you know, a kind of one-time-fits-all
approach. I think that is something that has to change because
we are involved in that.
You know, I think my time has expired. If we go again, I
might ask Ambassador questions, but I think you brought--and
the structural system, a lot of these former Soviet republics,
you know, unfortunately, did not create a legislative
framework. They did not have some, like, Founding Fathers,
unfortunately--[laughs]--to really create a proper legal system
of checks and balances. It allowed them to centralize power
back so quickly and it, unfortunately, happened to most of
them.
I yield back.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman
Congresswoman Spartz has been a leader on behalf of fair
and free elections around the world and so her interest is
proven by her actions.
Now, we will have a second round and the question that I
had initially asked nobody can answer better now with the
ambassador as to the benefits of the relationship between the
nation of Georgia and the United States.
Mr. Courtney: Thank you, sir.
As I mentioned in my testimony and Dr. Sabanadze noted--
[off mic]--in the early years when people were hungry were
coming out of a civil war. That was tens of millions of
dollars, maybe over a hundred million dollars. That was quite
substantial at the time and pretty important.
Then also at the beginning we and our European allies
worked together to try to promote civil society, democratic
reforms, rule of law reforms, economic reforms, and that has
been consistent all the way through.
The U.S. has been particularly active on the security
front. We had a Georgian training and equipment program for a
number of years which helped Georgian forces in Afghanistan and
Iraq fight and those were--they took on some of the toughest
assignments in those wars.
Then we developed a program to help Georgia with its
territorial defense and that program has been more recent. That
is the program that Georgia needs to deal with a potential
Russian threat. We have played a quite substantial role in all
the areas, especially security.
Chairman Wilson: It is really humbling to know the
assistance of food, on something as basic as that, at a time so
important. Then, Dr. Sabanadze, I really am so grateful for you
raising how a foreign agent law sounds so benign except for one
thing. It has been a precursor of dictatorship--a precursor,
sadly, in the Russian Federation.
I have been to Russia a number of times. I thought they
were going to be part of modern Western civilization--their
art, their literature, their architecture that we have adopted.
It did not occur to me that Putin would be successful in
creating a dictatorship but that is, sadly, true. Then you
flash forward to another country that at one time was one of
the wealthiest in the Western Hemisphere. No longer, and that
is Venezuela. Over and over again there is an example.
It is a precursor to a dictatorship and--but doing away
with the abilities of political advertising--it says foreign
agent. Well, it is really not a foreign agent; it is domestic
political activity.
Again, explain step-by-step how a dictator--and, hey, I
want to mention something. I try to call it dictatorships.
People talk about authoritarians. They talk about autocrats.
People do not understand that but something that really offends
dictators is to be called dictators, and so the dictatorship of
Putin, the dictatorship of Xi, Khamenei, we need to address
this. How can we help the people of Georgia not experience a
dictatorship?
Ms. Sabanadze: Well, that is exactly what Georgians are
fighting for right now. I think it is very important to
understand how these new types of autocracies come around. We
do not see tanks rolling through the streets anymore. Very
often you see democratically-elected governments subverting
democracy. Institutions that brought them to power they are
busy destroying those institutions, and the freedom of
expression, freedom of media, that they took advantage of, and
the power which was out there to be contested they took
advantage of this. They are destroying this through
parliamentary supermajorities, for example, which is what
happened in Georgia and is happening in many other parts of the
world.
This is a gradual process. It goes by the destruction of
one institution after another. Sometimes it is called a reform.
Sometimes it is just a change of leadership. It is--because it
is gradual it is difficult to spot. It is not, as I said, a
coup d'etat which you see and very easy to respond to.
Elections, again, are something that are being stolen long
before because you have such an uneven playing field that
democracy does not function anymore and the political space for
democratic contestation is no longer there.
These are the kind of hybrid dictatorships, if you would
like, who maintain at the same time a facade of democracy and
maintain that they are democracies and like in our case they
maintain that they want to pursue European and Euro-Atlantic
integration even though everything they do goes against it.
This is the kind of contradiction that we have to see and
understand, and very often our methods are outdated --the
methods of responding. Their methods have become more
sophisticated but our democracy promotion methods, and election
observation methods, are rather outdated so they do not really
capture what is going on.
The real help for Georgia is to empower these people and
those who are out in the streets they need protection because
if they are left and if Georgian society is left alone facing a
regime that is increasingly insecure and as a result
increasingly violent, I think there will be a lot of
disappointment.
Your assistance, this discussion, the MEGOBARI Act, and
more legislation of this type would be a very important signal.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you so much. It is interesting to
think of incrementalism as to dictatorships being established
as opposed to a Bolshevik revolution or whatever that
totalitarians come to power.
We now proceed to Congressman Steve Cohen of Tennessee.
Representative Cohen: I think I am going to pass.
Chairman Wilson: I have never heard him this quiet. Anyway,
this--but hey, I know we can count on pithy questions from my
dear friend Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana.
Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ambassador, my first question is for you. I think you were
an ambassador in the early--late 1990s, right, in Georgia,
correct? Yes. I actually lived in the late 1990s, in fact,
Ukraine at that time. My observation after the Soviet Union
fell apart, you know, it was Wild West. The early 1990s were
terrible.
At the end of the 1990s, there were--some positive things
were happening. There were some trends and building some
democratic institutions. I do not think they have ever been
built, you know, unfortunately. That is why it was so easy to
really corrupt and erode them and not really have, you know, no
democratic institutions and a lot of this is just appearance of
that.
From your perspective, you were involved, you know, in
1995, 1997. That was very challenging times and very --and most
of these Republicans at that time still were more pro-American,
I would argue, because even Russia was not--you know, so what
things went wrong and what things we did not do as a
policymaker here?
I was not American at that time. I came here in 2000.
[Laughs.] You know, I have my observations. You have been
actually a leader at that time reading foreign policy. What do
you think we should have not done and maybe we should look back
and make some adjustments now?
Mr. Courtney: Let me make a comparison between Ukraine and
Georgia. For a long time, Ukraine and Georgia seemed to be on
pretty much a parallel path moving to the European Union,
moving to a pro-Western future.
Occasionally there were problems with stolen elections or
leaders who wanted to turn the clock back so popular
revolutions took place. The first one was the Rose Revolution
in Georgia. Then a year or so later it was the Orange
Revolution in Ukraine and then in 2014 a second popular
revolution in Ukraine in the Maidan.
What we see today is a vibrant democracy in Ukraine that
has benefited from both of those popular revolutions which have
been mid-course corrections in the democratic path, if you
will. We see a democracy in Ukraine that is so strong that it
is surviving even an all-out war with Russia.
What happened to Georgia? Georgia had won but then Georgia
had different traditions--you know, a less Western tradition,
if you will, than Ukraine had and so it became easier for
authoritarian-minded people to take Georgia away off the path.
Crime and corruption were a bigger issue in some cases in
Georgia.
Now Georgia may be at another crossroads like Ukraine was
in 2014. These elections are in October, if those elections are
rigged in a major way then as in Ukraine there could be another
color revolution in Georgia.
We really should keep our eye on those elections. Now, the
West can help. We fund independent election monitors. We
criticize authoritarian moves. It is useful to understand that
the West really is not a major player. We can help at the
margins but it is what the people or the country do themselves.
The Ukrainians built their democracy themselves with some
Western support. Georgians are building their future as well.
Representative Spartz: Right. I agree. Democracy can be
only built, you know, from the ground up, but I would probably
disagree with your definition of a vibrant democracy. We are
not going to go there--in Ukraine, so we are not going to go
there.
A question for you, Mr. Chkhikvadze. I do not know if I
said it right. You know, you are dealing with the EU a lot, and
where is the position right now with the EU? Because in a lot
of ways EU with all of this initiative has an opportunity,
really, to help to reform some of these institutions and how--
and I have not seen them really doing much. You know, I will be
honest with you. I was--you know, dealing with European I get,
like--[laughs]--in the wake of dealing with them I do not know
how I used to live there.
You know, what is your perspective and assessment of what
is really happening right now with--I understand you dealt with
the EU, and what they are doing, and how helpful they are,
maybe, to incentivize some of these countries to move in more
democratic directions, including Georgia?
Mr. Chkhikvadze: Thank you.
I will just start with your previous question, if I may,
when it comes to what the U.S. should do and when it comes to
the support to Georgia.
First and foremost, I think that you can help us in regards
not to allowing the ruling party to rig the elections in
October. This is extremely, extremely crucial.
Secondly, I think that some of the proposals are already in
the MEGOBARI Act but, first, we should start from the election
observations and allow this to be free, fair, and competitive.
Thirdly, it was already mentioned that one of the crucial
supports which U.S. is providing to Georgia is its
nonrecognition policy. As you know, the two parts of Georgia is
occupied by Russia and there is an attempt by Russians to-- and
then also others to recognize its independence, and the U.S. is
very much backing us not to--to make sure that this does not
happen. To continue that policy would be very valuable.
Also, when it comes to security support this is also very
important and, last but not least, civil society support. This
is also, very important.
Coming back to your question about the European Union, as
you know, we are now in the process of accession and we are now
in the--I mean, there is a proposal that Georgia has to
implement the nine steps--nine recommendations--from the
European Union side.
Unfortunately, six months after it was proposed nothing has
been done by the Georgian authorities. The ball is in our court
now, and we have to deliver on very important issues and very
important policy fields like the judiciary, fighting against
elite corruption, et cetera, et cetera.
We do not see that there is a political will there that is
there in the case of our government. Unfortunately, there is
not much progress in that regard. Otherwise, as we hear every
time from the EU member states and the European Union in
general, is that the door is open, and we have to deliver on
that progress further on this road. Thank you.
Representative Spartz: Yes. Thank you. Yield back.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman Spartz.
She always proves her enthusiasm and so we can count on that.
As we conclude, I also want to point out that I am the co-
chair of the EU Caucus and I have visited the European Union
countries and, gosh, the economic benefit and opportunities
that are provided are just--would be so wonderful for the
people of Georgia.
At this time we shall adjourn and I would like to invite
the three witnesses to please come up front to get a picture
with the members of the Commission who are here. With that, we
are--and I want to thank the staff members who have helped make
the Helsinki Commission so successful on behalf of the people
of the United States.
With that, we are adjourned. [Sounds gavel.]
[Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the hearing ended.]
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