[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]






                                


 
 HAMAS' HOSTAGES, PUTIN'S PRISONERS, AND FREEING INTERNATIONAL CAPTIVES: 
   TOWARD STRONGER U.S. ANDGLOBAL ACTION FOR INTERNATIONAL POLITICAL 
                              PRISONER DAY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

            COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE

                        U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                            OCTOBER 25, 2023

                               __________

 Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in 
                                 Europe

                              [CSCE118-10]
                              
                              
                        [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                       Available via www.csce.gov
                       
                       
                        ______                       


             U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 
 53-898                 WASHINGTON : 2023 
 
 
 
                    
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
                       
            COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE

                        U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION

             U.S. HOUSE

                                                 U.S SENATE

JOE WILSON, South Carolina Chairman      BEN CARDIN, Maryland Co-Chairman

STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Ranking            ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi 
    Member                                   Ranking Member
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama              RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri             JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona                   JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina           THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
MIKE LAWLER, New York                    SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MARC VEASEY, Texas

                         EXECUTIVE BRANCH
                 Department of State - to be appointed
                Department of Defense - to be appointed
                Department of Commerce - to be appointed
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                             COMMISSIONERS

Hon. Joe Wilson, Chairman, from South Carolina...................     1

Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, from Tennessee.................     5

Hon. Victoria Spartz, from Indiana...............................     7

Hon. Emanuel Cleaver, from Missouri..............................     9

Hon. Mike Lawler, from New York..................................    20

Hon. Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut........................    24

Hon. Marc Veasey, from Texas.....................................    26


                         OTHER MEMEBERS PRESENT

Hon. Kathy Manning, from North Carolina..........................    22

                               WITNESSES

Davyd Arakhamia, Leader of the Servant of the People Party and 
  Chief Ukrainian Negotiator for Prisoners of War and Abductees..     3

Irwin Cotler, Chair of the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human 
  Rights, Former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of 
  Canada.........................................................    12

Jared Genser, International Human Rights Lawyer, Managing 
  Director of Perseus Strategies.................................    14

Evgenia Kara-Murza, Advocacy Director at the Free Russia 
  Foundation, Wife of Vladimir Kara-Murza........................    16


 


                              ----------                              

 COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN 
                                    EUROPE,
                          U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
                                  HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
                                       Wednesday, October 25, 2023.

    The hearing was held from 10:05 a.m. To 11:50 a.m., room 
1334 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC, 
Representative Joe Wilson [R-SC], Chairman, Commission for 
Security and Cooperation in Europe, presiding.
    Committee Members Present: Representative Joe Wilson [R-
SC], Chairman; Representative Steve Cohen [D-TN], Ranking 
Member; Representative Victoria Spartz [R-IN]; Representative 
Emanuel Cleaver [D-MO]; Representative Mike Lawler [R-NY]; 
Senator Richard Blumenthal [D-CT]; Representative Marc Veasey 
[D-TX] Other Members Present: Representative Kathy Manning [[D-
NC].
    Witnesses: Irwin Cotler, Chair of the Raoul Wallenberg 
Centre for Human Rights, Former Minister of Justice and 
Attorney General of Canada; Davyd Arakhamia, Leader of the 
Servant of the People Party and Chief Ukrainian Negotiator for 
Prisoners of War and Abductees; Jared Genser, International 
Human Rights Lawyer, Managing Director of Perseus Strategies; 
Evgenia Kara-Murza, Advocacy Director at the Free Russia 
Foundation, Wife of Vladimir Kara-Murza.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE WILSON, CHAIRMAN, U.S. HOUSE, 
                      FROM SOUTH CAROLINA

    Chairman Wilson: [Sounds gavel.] The hearing will come to 
order. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank everyone for 
being here today, and we need to address the attention of 
political prisoners and those who have been taken hostage and 
kidnapped around the world.
    As we are doing that, I am beginning and I know that my Co-
Chair, Congressman Steve Cohen, will be here any minute.
    I am really grateful that we have Congresswoman Victoria 
Spartz here with us today. She is quite unique. She was born in 
Ukraine. Actually, she was born in the USSR, and thank goodness 
we can now say Ukraine, so we are delighted.
    Congressman Cohen will be here, and our Senate colleagues 
also, and other House members. As always, there is so many 
conflicting meetings, but we want to--I want to proceed because 
this is so important and our honored guest has another 
commitment to leave.
    With that in mind, we see that--the shocking stories every 
day--the flashing across television screens, newspaper 
headlines, and the latest updates buzzing on our phones--
innocent individuals kidnapped and thrown into hellish 
captivity by murderous terrorists like the puppets of Iran 
Hamas, dictators who are--like the war criminal Vladimir Putin, 
and the heinous, barbaric oppressors around the world. All are 
designed to serve their evil aims of turning innocent people 
into human bargaining chips for destroying democracies and 
individuals' freedom through fear.
    We live in a new world that I have labeled cellphone wars. 
It is--oppressors have weaponized our interconnected world and 
media. They leverage technology and global media to broadcast 
their captives' horror as part of their vile plans to undermine 
faith in democracies and our ability to protect free citizens. 
We must face a hard truth: Until we as democracies stand up and 
stand together with stronger measures to free captives and stop 
their seizure, the terrorists and dictators will continue to 
leverage hostages and political prisoners against us.
    We are in a war we did not choose, with war criminal Putin 
invading Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and Iran's puppets 
invading Israel on October 7, this month. This is a war between 
dictators with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of 
law.
    That is why we are here today. I am grateful to be here, 
ultimately, with Ranking Member Cohen and other esteemed 
experts and colleagues to find solutions and stronger ways of 
these--to end these horrific acts and to achieve peace through 
strength.
    Ranking Member Cohen is a leader on these issues at the 
OSCE's Parliamentary Assembly, where he serves as the special 
representative for political prisoners. Last year, he and I 
introduced a bill to recognize October 30 as the International 
Day of Political Prisoners.
    We all must realize that, beyond raising attention, new 
concrete actions need to be taken by America and other 
democratic governments. Too often, families of hostages, 
prisoners, even senior congressional leaders cannot get answers 
from the State Department or who--or why they refuse to 
recognize leaders like Vladimir Kara-Murza as, quote, 
``wrongfully detained'' while his conditions dangerously spiral 
in--out of control in Putin's prisons.
    I note for the record the State Department's been 
officially invited to the hearing today, as they were to last 
month's hearing on Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is so brave and 
courageous; and his wife, Evgenia, here today. Yet, it has not 
sent anyone from the headquarters just a few miles away to 
answer basic questions. We are threatened with an incredible, 
horrible situation facing Hamas hostages and Putin's prisoners, 
with kidnapped infants and children including millions of 
Ukrainian women and children held captive on their own soil by 
Russian persons--troops. Other innocents are held in captivity 
with odd excuses or failures to act or answer questions are 
unacceptable.
    The murderous Hamas puppets of Iran have unleashed 
unimaginable horror upon innocent Israeli infants, children, 
women, elderly, and all others. They have killed and brutalized 
only for the sake of killing and brutalizing. That is what the 
terrorists do to cause fear and fulfill their goal of having a 
murder of the Jewish people. We mourn every single innocent 
life that has been lost and pray for the well-being of the 
loved ones left behind.
    The terrorists have taken hostages, many innocent civilians 
who are--were going about their daily lives, including at least 
13 Americans who are now captive. Thirty-three Americans, as 
Congressman Eldridge [sic; Emanuel] Cleaver will let you know, 
have sadly been murdered in--by the Iranian puppets in Israel.
    The hearing will investigate the instruments we, the 
American government, has as our brothers--as our toolbox to 
help the captives. Over the years, we have held up--stood up 
several legislative efforts to address the exact numbers, but 
we have learned that they are not adequate. Too often, our 
government fails to act or to sit or answer questions, citing 
legal loopholes or definitions rather than acting. The Putins 
of the world, as we see, and the terror groups are taking 
Americans hostage. This will not stand. We need to have robust 
strategies and responses. I believe we will and it will be 
bipartisan. Congressman Cleaver is with us today and 
Congresswoman Spartz, and so it is bipartisan right now on 
behalf of the people of Ukraine and Israel. With that, we need 
a robust response.
    I am grateful that we have with us Davyd Arakhamia, and he 
is a member of the parliamentary faction--leader of the Servant 
of the People Party, the chief Ukrainian negotiator for 
prisoners of war and abductees. I was very grateful to meet 
with the parliamentarian in May in Kyiv. He has led the 
incredible challenge of negotiating to free innocent men, 
women, and children, and infants Russia's army has kidnapped 
from Ukraine. There is perhaps no better person in the world 
today to describe the realities of confronting Putin's 
dictatorial regime, which is willing to terrorize and sacrifice 
innocent lives. I recognize that we have a very important 
person with us today and thank you for being here, and we look 
forward to your testimony.

  TESTIMONY OF DAVYD ARAKHAMIA, LEADER OF THE SERVANT OF THE 
 PEOPLE PARTY AND CHIEF UKRAINIAN NEGOTIATOR FOR PRISONERS OF 
                       WAR AND ABDUCTEES

    Mr. Arakhamia: Thank you very much, dear Chairman Wilson, 
Co-Chair Cohen, and Victoria, and all other members of 
Commission, ladies and gentlemen, all people who are watching 
us.
    I would like to thank, first of all, the Commission for 
this important hearing, because it is not only for the 
Commission; it is for the whole world to watch and for the 
whole world to react. We know, like, what is happening with 
Hamas hostages right now. Definitely, you know, like, I will 
focus in my speech mostly about things that happening in 
Ukraine, but this does not mean that we only focus on Ukraine. 
We focus on all issues that is right now outstanding and 
getting hotter and hotter. We think that, you know, like, right 
now it is a historical moment where democracies have to be 
united against, you know, dictatorships. Basically, like, you 
know, it looks like we are in a pre-World War III, you know, 
where democracies have to be united and, you know, protect 
everybody who is suffering from these dictatorships.
    Ukraine is fighting. You know, Ukraine is fighting every 
day. Most of the people think that Ukraine is fighting on, you 
know, an invisible format where you have artillery shots, where 
you have drone attacks. Since last 3 months, it became swarm 
drone attacks; 40, 50, sometimes 60 drones at a time are 
attacking single locations with one single goal, is to destroy 
--so to drain off all of our possibilities for air defense and 
then to destroy the targets. Primarily, those are civilian 
targets. Last year, they tried to do the blackout in the 
country, to target all the electrical plants. This year, they 
are going to repeat. This year, unfortunately, they are more 
weaponized. Despite the sanctions, you know, they still managed 
somehow to increase the production of the missiles, drones, and 
all other things.
    There is invisible part of the war. I mean, it is not 
invisible; it is multidimensional. It is, like, only visible 
for certain people. Primarily, I am talking about the children. 
We have a state-owned portal, Children of the War. I checked 
the number yesterday. Yesterday alone, there were registered 
19,546 children who were deported or forcibly relocated by 
Russia--19,500. Sounds like a lot, but if you take a look to 
Moscow, what Moscow reports, Moscow officially reports and 
claims that it managed to relocate 744,000 children. You see, 
like, this big difference. Why? They portray that this is an 
attempt to save young generation from the war, but this is not 
true because when we tried to investigate those stories, we 
have always identified that they change the names of these 
children. They put these children in some foster families. They 
put them in--you know, in special schools where they have 
compulsory so-called patriotic courses where they aim to twist 
the conscience on--you know, like, and impose the blind love to 
Russia and readiness to die for the President Putin.
    We think that this is a crime. Let me remind you that the 
forcible transfer of children, that was a main element of the 
crime of genocide in the act incriminated to Putin by the 
International Criminal Court, where we--the Criminal Court 
issued the search-warrant order.
    Besides children, 28,000 adult civilians are currently, 
according to our records, considered missing under special 
circumstances where they deprive the personal liberty as a 
result of Russia armed aggression. Many of them are held in 
detention camps or prisons for foreigners, both on the 
temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine and those in 
Russia. Despite being peaceful and posing no harm, civilians 
become subject to torture--cruel, inhuman, and degrading 
treatment.
    The most important thing for us that there is no 
humanitarian missions that they allow to visit and check and 
verify--no Red Cross, no human right protection organizations. 
They do not allow anyone to go and check the numbers, verify, 
get the registry, get the records, and so on.
    In full, the same situation remains concerning the 
Ukrainian prisoners of the war. In full violation of Geneva 
Conventions, independent observers, in particular the 
representatives of the ICRC, are not allowed to access those 
people and those persons. They remain subject to humiliation 
and ill-treatment from the Russian staff.
    Those are challenges that we are facing, but we are not--we 
continue to fight and we have two dimensions.
    One is the military dimension where, you know, like, you 
can check it in the news. We would like--we would like--I would 
like to use the opportunity to ask you to support the funding 
request. Obviously, you know about this need.
    The second one is that to use your tool as a Commission 
to--first, to underline all those circumstances; second, to 
develop an action plan. I think that if we would together fight 
to have observers--maybe it could be third-party observers that 
Russia can at least try to allow to see--we would all have and 
own verified information on both sides so then we can address 
with a solution.
    Thank you very much. I would like, again, thank you for all 
the support that you gave to Ukraine, and I promise that we 
would continue to fight for the freedom and democracy in 
Ukraine.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Parliamentarian 
Arakhamia, and just--we just appreciate your courage. It is 
truly indicated.
    We have, indeed, been joined. I am very grateful again to 
show how bipartisan this is. The American people support the 
people of Ukraine. We support the people of Israel. We support 
the people of Taiwan.
    With that, I would like to call on an opening statement 
from our Co-chair, Congressman Steve Cohen from Tennessee.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE COHEN, RANKING MEMBER, U.S. 
                     HOUSE, FROM TENNESSEE

    Co-chair Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank our witness 
for traveling all over to us and speaking, with other 
parliamentarians from Ukraine, with some of us yesterday 
afternoon.
    Mr. Wilson and I have been very bipartisan in our support 
of Ukraine, realizing that Ukraine is a sovereign nation whose 
borders were infringed upon by Russia, that Russia had the 
intent to destroy the country of Ukraine--considering that 
Ukraine does not exist, that it is only part of Russia, and it 
is never been an independent country, and should not be one. It 
is much analogous to Hamas and their credo that Israel does not 
exist, should be wiped off the map, and that they should be 
destroyed.
    Putin wants a genocide in Ukraine, and he is committed all 
the acts that should have it designated as a genocide. Mr. 
Wilson and I have had bills to declare this a genocide, but for 
reticence in our State Department and some recalcitrance on 
their part it has not become law, unfortunately. It is clear 
what they have done. They tried to destroy the culture of the 
Ukrainian people. They have raped Ukrainian women, tortured 
Ukrainian prisoners, kidnapped Ukrainian children, and stated 
improperly and unfounded that Ukraine is not a nation.
    Hamas is the same thing. They raped women. They decapitated 
people. They kidnap children and individuals ranging from the 
elderly to infants. That you--Israel does not exist, and they 
do not want it to exist. They have taken--kidnapped individuals 
who they have as hostages. There is so much alike in Hamas and 
Russia. They are bullies who want to control the people that 
they despise. They do not understand any of the concepts of 
humanity, of getting along, and trying to make the world a 
better place.
    I was appointed by our previous OSCE president, Ms. 
Cederfelt, as the special representative on political 
prisoners. Today, with the work of Congressman Wilson and I 
together, but Congress Wilson initiated it, this is, I think, 
World Political Prisoner Day, or give or take a day, right? My 
charge is to bring the cases of political prisoners, of which 
Russia and Belarus are probably the two most egregious, to the 
world's attention. One of whom was my friend Vladimir Kara-
Murza, who was a friend of this particular body and a friend of 
democracy, and resident here in America. He should have been 
declared, and should be declared, under the Levenson Act as 
wrongfully detained.
    Once again, reticence on the State Department, which I 
cannot understand, I could not understand their tardiness in 
giving ATACMS and other weapons which are needed by the 
Ukrainians to fight off the Russians. Eventually they get 
around to it, but eventually is not good enough. The time is 
now. The time is now for political prisoners. I do not have any 
thought that Putin's going to let Vladimir out of prison, just 
like he is not going let Navalny out. They oppose this corrupt 
oligarchical control leadership in Russia and would like to see 
Russia be democratic and free, and that is what Navalny's 
about. That is what Kara-Murza's about, and that is what so 
many other political prisoners in Russia are about. He is not 
going to let them out.
    Israel is going to have to free the prisoners they have to 
get the 200 hostages free. In the long run, that is going to be 
a problem. Many of the Hamas that came into the kibbutzes spoke 
Hebrew fluently because they had been prisoners and they had 
learned how to speak Hebrew in an efficient way, and they were 
effective and efficient terrorists, killing people and getting 
in. The head of Hamas spent 20 years in an Israeli prison. You 
let them out, they are just worse, and they come back to haunt 
you. That is going to have to happen.
    I want the hostages to be freed. I want our political 
prisoners to be freed. I see Evgenia here, and, you know, as I 
spoke to you, it is just--I feel for you and your children not 
having Vladimir. I want to do everything I can. He told me 
once, he said the worst thing for political prisoners, to be 
forgotten, because they their conscience is what drives them to 
the positions they take that makes them political prisoners and 
puts them in the gulag, and that conscience is something that 
people need to remember. It needs to be brought before people's 
minds, the kind of people that we have in this country still 
who are willing to sacrifice their freedom for an idea, and the 
idea is freedom.
    We are about to lose it in America. Part of the problem we 
have got here has been, continues to be, and will be unless we 
win this next election, Donald Trump. That is the reason why a 
lot of Republicans are falling off in support for Ukraine, 
because Trump won the election of 2016 with Putin's help, with 
the help of the social media factory in St. Petersburg, and 
that is why they want it. He wants to put the same team 
together, and if Putin is his friend and Putin will help him 
try to win the 2024 election.
    Joe Wilson, and Mike McCaul, and Mike Turner, and some 
other Republicans are very strong in support for Ukraine. I am 
afraid they are not a majority. I am afraid the candidate they 
have up today is not for getting Ukraine funding. Whether he 
will support the package because Israel's in it and his 
Evangelical friends want us all to go back to Israel to be in 
the rapture, and that is important to him, so be it. He is for 
Israel. We will deal with him at the rapture time, but he is 
not for Ukraine funding. I think we are at a critical point, 
and hopefully we will overcome it and we will see something 
occur that is--but Trump is a problem. Trump's a problem to 
freedom everywhere in the world, and a problem with honesty, 
decency, the rule of law, and due process. That is all I got to 
say about bipartisanship now.
    I yield back the balance of my time. [Laughs.]
    Chairman Wilson: Mr. Co-Chairman, thank you, sort of. 
[Laughter.] I mean, no, hey, democracy everybody's not going to 
agree, Okay? The bottom line, but we--hey, again, bipartisan.
    We have been joined by Congresswoman Kathy Manning, from my 
sister State of North Carolina. We are--and so we can work 
together, and indeed, Parliamentarian Arakhamia, I am going to 
defer to let Congresswoman Spartz--hey, what a symbol. We could 
tell you that we have great affection for the people of 
Ukraine. We have affection for people who--formerly of the 
Soviet Union. We even had hopes for the people of the Russian 
Federation, but we have a living example of one serving here.
    Before we begin, I do have to say one thing, Okay, 
concerning President Donald Trump. He can be assaulted by 
reality. He was the one who sent Javelin missiles to Ukraine, 
against the advice. He is the one who remarkably put American 
troops in Poland, which is an incredible move of American 
defensive capability. He is the person who warned Chancellor 
Angela Merkel that Nord Stream 2 was capitulation to Putin and 
should be blocked. I--and also he is the one who had the guts 
and courage to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to 
Jerusalem, to recognize the Golan Heights. President Trump, if 
he is reelected, actually Congressman Cohen and I will be right 
there cheering him on the good policies he has.
    With that in mind, we now--okay. [Laughter.] See, look at 
that. See, I have already converted him. Anyway, no, I did not 
do that. You are still a good Democrat. Pardon me. Anyway, hey, 
Congresswoman Spartz.

     STATEMENT OF VICTORIA SPARTZ, U.S. HOUSE, FROM INDIANA

    Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As much as 
deliberation and disagreements we have here, we are still a 
free country. I disagree with Representative Cohen, but I 
respect his opinion. I have to tell you something, that it is 
very important for us to be able to disagree but do things when 
it is in our national interest. I truly believe that we will 
come together, Republicans and Democrats. All of us understand 
that it is in our national interest for Ukraine and Israel to 
defeat very aggressive, and tyrannical, and really terrorist 
groups that now try to destabilize the whole world and kill a 
lot of people, millions of lives.
    I will be honest with you, I think there is just something 
that Republicans feel that President Biden needs to save this 
republic too. We need to secure our border and dealing with 
crushing debt, because if America is not strong there is no 
hope for anyone else. I think we will come to consensus and 
agreement that we need to do both and do things for our 
country. Just kind of talking--you know, we will get off our 
political debates and deliberation, and I think we will have a 
good speaker soon, and then we will have more deliberation.
    Just talking, you know, a lot of people do not understand 
that, you know, that Ukraine is very multinational country, and 
you are kind of a testament to that. A lot of people do not 
understand that you were born in Russia, you have a Georgian 
heritage according to your last name, and you understand what 
it is, what is at stake. You know, it is nothing to do with the 
territories or protecting anyone. It is really people that 
believe in freedoms, want to stand up and die for those 
freedoms. Unfortunately, a lot of Ukrainians are dying. 
Unfortunately, you know, countries go through this, because 
when you get tyranny it is very difficult to get back from 
dictatorship.
    I grew up in the Soviet Union, now Ukraine, but I 
understand what it is. I understand what our founding fathers 
did for us. I think Ukrainian people is, like, founding fathers 
of the United States of America. I think you are going to be 
very strong republic. American people will stand and help, you 
know, because American people stand for freedoms and always 
will, and stand with our lives.
    My question is for you. You know, what do you think we 
could do better to help? There are a lot of terrible things 
happening, and you know, we get busy with a lot of things and 
politics and debates and election. We have real lives that that 
getting destroyed in many countries. I think we have to come 
together to do better. What do you think would be helpful for 
us, and maybe too you could share some of the things and 
policies beyond resolutions, we do a lot of resolutions, that 
we maybe need to do to help, because there are some people are 
really suffering. We can help these people to--you know, to 
survive this brutality.
    Mr. Arakhamia: You know, U.S. is already doing a lot, both 
on the security side and both on the humanitarian side as well. 
We believe that, you know, the main power of the U.S. is U.S. 
can unite and continue to, you know, reunite the coalition of 
our partners. You know, like, in European Union is not that 
flat. We have Hungary, which is always, like, trying to, you 
know, to pronounce Putin's narratives inside the European 
Union. We have--they also have a lot of election processes next 
year. For example, in Slovakia there is, like, a pro-Russian 
party already vote in the elections. We already feeling this 
kind of vibes, negative vibes, you know, like, pro-Russian 
vibes inside the European Union.
    I think that U.S. is already--holds the leadership and this 
process. We just, like, want U.S. to have, like, more actively 
participate in this process to continue and keep people united, 
you know, against the Russian Federation. You see that first 
year was really firm. Second year was softer, because people 
start to think about the money. Russia found numerous ways how 
to avoid sanctions through different proxy countries. 
Unfortunately, you know, like, we--the speed of our--you know, 
as a united coalition--the speed of our reaction is not 
comparable with the speed of their inventions how to avoid 
sanctions.
    Those are, you know, like, clear statements. If you go to 
State Department and ask for the stats, you will see that they 
are changing really rapidly. We are reacting really slowly, 
because we have to talk, we have to agree with all of us, you 
know, like so. If we could speed up those processes and, you 
know, try to tight those sanctions processes for the critical 
components--like rockets, missiles, drones--which are bringing 
the most damage to civilians right now. That would be really 
helpful.
    Representative Spartz: Thank you so much.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you for yielding back again.
    Another living example of our appreciation of people of 
Central and Eastern Europe, we have been joined by Congressman 
Michael Lawler of New York. He was bright enough to marry a 
beautiful young lady from Moldova. I give him credit, as I do 
my oldest son, Alan Wilson, the attorney general of South 
Carolina. He was smart enough to marry a beautiful Polish 
American, so hey, over and over again you see a connection.
    Then we have superstars like Congressman Emanuel Cleaver 
here, all the way from Missouri. Congressman Cleaver.

    STATEMENT OF EMANUEL CLEAVER, U.S. HOUSE, FROM MISSOURI

    Representative Cleaver: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Let me, first of all, express appreciation to you for all 
of the just causes that you have involved yourself in over 
time, including the Madiba, Nelson Mandela, who was imprisoned 
wrongly. What I am--what I am wanting you to help me fix that 
in my mind is the difference--because of what is going on right 
now--and with Hamas. What is the difference between a political 
prisoner and a hostage?
    Mr. Arakhamia: I will try to answer. A political prisoner 
is mostly a person which the power on another side treats him 
as a risky factor to destabilize the regime. The hostage is the 
person which has--might have no political interest, no 
political role, but just a civilian who was taken out, you 
know, and getting tortured, or misplaced, and shot. I think 
that the main reason is, like, this political component. Like, 
the hostage could be political prison. The hostage--but the 
hostage alone could be non-political prisoner, just a hostage 
as a civilian who was taken.
    Representative Cleaver: Mandela would have been a political 
prisoner? Is that--yes. This is something I am interested in 
dealing with. The other issue, you know, maybe much more 
importantly, is what is different now? Or is there a difference 
in Eastern Europe in the--in the way Russia is perceived as 
it--or juxtaposed to how the Soviet Union was perceived? I 
mean, with all the instability, what is the difference that 
people can feel in Eastern Europe? Is the threat level higher? 
Has life changed, what?
    Mr. Arakhamia: Russia is trying to build a country which is 
like a kingdom, when there is a one king who decides for 
everyone in the country. All other countries, democratic 
countries, yes, like Ukrainians, we do not have any kings. We 
do not have any respect to--you know, like to people who try to 
monopolize the power. We would like to live freedom life, where 
democratic values is the main value, where the life of the 
human and his freedom is main value. That is what we are 
fighting for.
    When other countries are trying to be close to Russia, they 
immediately feel this. Like Georgia is my Motherland. Georgia 
now is really pro-Russian. People are super--so the power, the 
government, is pro-Russian. People are, you know, like anti-
Russian so much. Even when the Russian ship--cruise ship, 
normal civilian cruise ship, is being--you know, is coming to 
the city, they, like, just completely--there are so many 
protests, people are fighting, people have demonstrations, and 
so on. Because they feel they do not want Russia to come 
closer, because they already had this in 2008. They had this 
war. They know what is the price for so-called Russian values.
    Representative Cleaver: What I do not understand is, in the 
Middle East, I mean, we can go the boundaries for Israel, based 
on Torah, based on tradition. I am wondering, what does--you 
may not be able to even answer this. I mean, I should probably 
ask Putin. What does he base his constant statements on about 
that Ukraine is a part of Russia? I mean, I know about during 
the Soviet Union and iron curtain and so forth, but is there 
any logic in there? History that we do not know about?
    Mr. Arakhamia: It is just propaganda, because actually 
Ukraine is the mother of Russia. It is the Kyiv Rus. Russia was 
just, like, a swamp. Moscow was nonexistent when the Kyiv Rus 
was already historical center of civilization. For Putin, you 
know, because he is, like, very good at propaganda, we should 
confirm this. You know, like, I think Russia holds second place 
in the world for propaganda. No. 1 is North Korea, and the No. 
2 is Russia.
    That is why you know, like, a lot of people are believing. 
I can tell you, like, we have a report by our intel showing 
that Russians are now buying out the real social media 
accounts--U.S. social media accounts, in Twitter, in other 
places, just to, you know, like, to put this in comments so 
people reading the Twitter, they see in the comments, they 
started to believe these stories. That is just a weapon that--
you know, 21st-century weapon that we should somehow also stop.
    Representative Cleaver: I agree. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver.
    Indeed, this first panel will come conclude. 
Parliamentarian Arakhamia, thank you so much for your courage. 
The courage of the people of Ukraine is an inspiration to the 
world. It is being recognized worldwide. The thought that--who 
would ever imagine that Sweden would give up 200 years of 
neutrality to join NATO? Who would ever imagine that Finland, 
with an 830-mile border, would join NATO? Indeed, something 
that would be helpful to us is for our NATO allies all to 
really achieve the 2 percent of expenditures for self-defense 
for military.
    Then it spreads around the world. Indeed, South Korea, and 
Japan are establishing every effort to really increase the size 
of their militaries, the capabilities of their militaries. We 
will be meeting even this week with the Prime Minister of 
Australia. Worldwide there is a recognition of the bravery of 
the people of Ukraine. They should understand that democracies 
are facing the dictators and will face the dictators, despite 
whatever detractors that we could find in any other political 
party. With that, again, we would like to thank you, and we 
will now welcome the second panel. Hey, clap. [Applause.]
    [Break.]
    Chairman Wilson: Ladies and gentlemen, we should resume 
with the hearing today concerning political prisoners, captive 
individuals, hostages around the world. With that in mind, even 
before we begin I would like to recognize two individuals here 
who can bring, sadly, a real-world understanding of how 
imminent--this month, October 7, the incredible tragedy, the 
invasion and mass murder of that day. With us we have Noam 
Perry, the daughter of 72-year-old Haim Perry, taken hostage by 
the Iranian puppets. Indeed, Noam represents all families of 
the Kibbutz Nif Ozsmall [sic; Nir Oz] and--by the Gaza border, 
where 73 civilians were abducted and kidnapped, and so please 
stand. Thank you. Also, so brave Dona Raich Levi [ph], 
spokesman for the hostages of missing families. Both of you 
stand, and we just appreciate your courage, and we recognize 
you. [Applause.]
    To me, it is just incredible. Here we are in the 21st 
century. We are talking about an invasion by Putin, the 
massacring of people that I saw, we saw in Bucha, where they 
were buried in shallow graves. Now, October the 7, which I was 
really grateful to be at the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in 
Copenhagen, again, to show the unity around the world. That is 
that at Copenhagen, the prime minister of Denmark recognized 
and identified that October 7, is the combination of 9/11 and 
Pearl Harbor. This is a recognition that needs to be understood 
by people worldwide of the conflict, of the invasion of 
dictators against democracies. Do thank you for being here 
today.
    Our second panel is so welcome and extraordinary. We have 
Irwin Cotler, who is the chair of the Wallenberg Centre for 
Human Rights, former minister of justice and attorney general 
of Canada. Last week's hearing featured a witness who had 
literally written the book about the puppet Hamas--puppets of 
Iran. In addition to his esteemed writings representing 
political leaders, like Israel's Natan Sharansky and Nelson 
Mandela, Professor Cotler is a symbol--of, a subject on the new 
documentary film on his decades-long work for freedom. We are 
so grateful for you to be here, Doctor. Thank you. [Applause.]
    Additionally, we have--and we got so many superstars here, 
this is great, so thank you. Hey, because--hey, the world is 
substantially, not all, united. With this in mind, we have 
Jared Genser and also Evgenia Kara-Murza. We are so grateful. 
Mr. Genser is an international human rights attorney and 
managing director of Perseus Strategies. Mr. Genser literally 
wrote many of the key provisions of a major American law 
seeking to free the wrongfully detained, called the Levinson 
Act. This--he has directed, and represented, and freed many 
hostages and political prisoners around the world.
    Ms. Kara-Murza is a symbol of freedom and democracy, for 
you and your husband, Vladimir. We appreciate you, the advocacy 
director for the Free Russia Foundation. You need no 
introduction to the members of this Commission, but we want the 
world to know that we appreciate you for the inspiring 
leadership for your husband, and for others who have been 
imprisoned globally. We look forward to working with you and 
our allies to continue to raise these issues until your 
husband, Vladimir, is freed from Putin's prison, and also all 
political prisoners are freed.
    I want to thank the witnesses for their time, and we will 
begin each with 5 minutes. Then we will begin 5-minute 
questioning by members of the panel, beginning with our very 
honorable Co-chair Steve Cohen. We begin with Dr. Cotler.

TESTIMONY OF IRWIN COTLER, CHAIR OF THE RAOUL WALLENBERG CENTRE 
   FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, FORMER MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY 
                       GENERAL OF CANADA

    Dr. Cotler: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am delighted to be 
here and to join my colleague, Jared Genser and Evgenia Kara-
Murza, in the common cause which brings us together, the 
pursuit of justice on behalf of political prisoners and 
hostages as well as accountability for the major human rights 
violations and mass atrocities committed both in Russia's 
criminal aggression against Ukraine and Hamas' criminal 
aggression against Israeli civilians. The last time I appeared 
before this body, I was actually here together with Vladimir 
Kara-Murza, at the time. As we meet today, he is languishing in 
the Soviet gulag.
    His crime? Telling the truth, both about Russia's domestic 
repression and its external aggression. His trial? Kafkaesque, 
presided over by a judge who was himself the target of 
Magnitsky sanctions. The verdict? Twenty-five years in prison, 
high treason. I might add, an implementation of the Stalinist 
dictum: Give us the person and we will find the crime. Indeed, 
we meet at a historical inflection moment today, where we are 
experiencing--witnessing not only a resurgent, global 
authoritarianism, but the metastasizing of the axis of evil, of 
mass atrocities, of political prisoners as a looking glass on 
the one hand and the hostages as a looking glass on the other.
    Where these acts of criminal aggression have been attended 
--and I do not use these words lightly--by war crimes, crimes 
against humanity, and even mass atrocities constitutive of acts 
of genocide. At times such as these, we have to ask ourselves: 
What is it that we can, what is it that we must do? For reasons 
of time, I am going to just enumerate a number of actions that 
can be taken with respect to each of the criminal aggressions. 
Let me begin in the matter of Russia's criminal aggression 
against Ukraine, using Vladimir Kara-Murza as a case study. 
Might I add parenthetically, I am also here as a special envoy 
on behalf of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Community of 
Democracies in Vladimir Kara-Murza's case and cause.
    No. 1, we need to have bipartisan, nonpartisan, 
parliamentary coalitions on behalf of political prisoners like 
Vladimir Kara-Murza. In Canada, this nonpartisan coalition 
resulted in him recently being named Canada's seventh honorary 
citizen. We have established an ongoing all-party parliamentary 
coalition in that regard, and we are seeking to have that in 
each of the Community of Democracies. Second, and reference has 
been made to this, he should be declared an arbitrarily 
detained person under the American legislation. Number third, 
we need to support the arrest warrants before the ICC in this 
regard. No. 4 establish an independent international criminal 
tribunal for the crime of aggression in Ukraine, because there 
is no other jurisdiction or authority that can hold Putin, the 
military, and political leadership, accountable.
    No. 5, call upon State parties to the Genocide Convention 
to prevent, protect against, and punish all those involved in a 
breach of the Genocide Convention. That occurs both, we 
suspect, to Russia's criminal aggression against Ukraine and 
Hamas's criminal aggression--aided in this axis of evil by 
Iran. No. 6, make representations to the U.N. special 
procedures, like the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention. No. 
7, mobilize the parties. We have more now than 72 State parties 
to the international Declaration on Arbitrary Detention in 
State-to-State relations. The four foreign ministers, which 
included foreign minister of Canada and United States, 
Secretary of State Blinken, recently convened together to 
implement that declaration. We need to mobilize it at this 
point on behalf of political prisoners.
    No. 8, to enhance the imposition of Magnitsky sanctions, 
where those Magnitsky sanctions must also be applied. No. 9, 
call for the immediate release of Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is 
suffering from a polyneuropathy disease which, under Russian 
law, mandates that he be released from prison. Call upon the 
Russians to abide by their own legal responsibilities 
domestically and internationally, and finally, use all the OSCE 
mechanisms for that purpose.
    Let me close by saying that we meet at another historical 
inflection moment in the shadow of the worst day in Jewish 
history since the holocaust, of horrors too terrible to be 
believed but not too terrible to have happened. Where Hamas is 
not just a prohibited terrorist organization under American law 
and Canadian law, it is a genocidal antisemitic terrorist 
government. Not because I say so, but because they say so, 
where they have affirmed their own charter in 1988 founding 
charter again and again, calling for the destruction of Israel 
and the killing of all Jews wherever they may be. Where the 
hostages are a looking glass into those mass atrocities, into 
those standing violations of the most foundational norms of 
international human rights, humanitarian and criminal law, as 
we meet.
    I close by saying that at times such as these--[inaudible]. 
Whoever remains indifferent indicts himself or herself. The 
U.S. can take the lead in organizing a multilateral coalition 
for the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages. To 
invoke the ICC and have arrest warrants here for that purpose. 
To hold accountable enablers like Qatar and Turkey, who have 
been giving base and sanctuary for Hamas leaders.
    In a word, as the families of the hostages have called upon 
us to do--and you have made reference to Noam who is here, and 
we have been meeting with her these last few days--they have 
asked us to be their voice. It is our responsibility, the 
Community of Democracies, each of us individually and 
collectively, to speak on behalf of those who cannot be heard, 
to bear witness on behalf of those who cannot testify, to act 
on behalf of those who have put their lives on the line and 
who, as we meet, we have the elderly, the disabled, the six 
toddlers, et cetera, all hostages. We have to make this a 
priority in our domestic and foreign policy as a matter of 
principle and policy. Thank you.
    Chairman Wilson: Indeed, Attorney General Cotler, thank you 
for your passion. Thank you for your success. It is so 
refreshing to see the United States and Canada, beloved 
neighbors--you said community. We are neighbors, and so it is 
so close, a family. Together as we face dictators around the 
world.
    With that, Mr. Genser, please.

 TESTIMONY OF JARED GENSER, INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER, 
            MANAGING DIRECTOR OF PERSUES STRATEGIES

    Mr. Genser: Chairman Wilson, Co-Chairman Cohen, and 
distinguished members of the Helsinki Commission, my name is 
Jared Genser. I am an international human rights lawyer based 
in Washington, best known over my two-decade career in working 
to free political prisoners around the world. A subset of those 
have been wrongly detained Americans in countries including 
Burma, Cambodia, China, Cuba, Iran, and Nicaragua.
    With limited time today I am going to focus on two aspects 
of my testimony. You have a more complete version of it, I 
believe, in front of you. I want to talk about two topics. One 
is the ending of state-sponsored hostage taking, and the second 
relates to amendments that I believe need to be made to the 
Levinson Act, which is the framework for addressing these 
issues under U.S. law. I haave represented numerous Americans 
who have been grabbed by authoritarian regimes over my career. 
The most important thing that I have learned from these cases 
is that once an American has been grabbed, it is too late. Why? 
Because the U.S. never imposes any serious consequences for 
their detention, and it can take months to years for the U.S. 
to do what is necessary to bring them home.
    The only hope for ending this deplorable practice is to 
disrupt the value proposition for state-sponsored hostage 
taking and to create draconian consequences for states that 
engage in it. In July 2022, I published an op-ed in The Wall 
Street Journal, which I would like to be included in the 
record, proposing President Biden announce the development of a 
new multilateral agreement that would include several key 
elements. First, it should be grounded in the principle of 
collective defense, establishing that a hostage taken from one 
signatory amounts to a hostage taken from all. In other words, 
the proverbial individual stick will break easily, but a bundle 
of sticks will not. Second, it should identify specific actions 
that each signatory can take individually and collectively when 
a national of any signatory is taken.
    In a model agreement that I have drafted and have had the 
opportunity to discuss both with Secretary Blinken and National 
Security Adviser Sullivan, I have listed 11 actions states my 
take if one hostage is taken by a government, such as public 
condemnations, cancellation of official visits, and the 
imposition of targeted sanctions on perpetrators. I have 
identified another 15 action states might take if a government 
engages in a pattern of hostage taking, such as opposing 
perpetrating states candidates for positions in multilateral 
institutions, restricting government loans, and suspending and 
blocking economic assistance, development assistance, or 
security assistance. While I would welcome any new ideas to 
solve this problem, it has been forty-five years since the U.S. 
embassy was taken over in Tehran in 1979. To me, the only hope 
that we have for deterring this practice is disrupting the 
value proposition at its source because, as I said, once an 
American is taken, it is too late.
    Let me just use the balance of my time to talk about the 
Levinson Act, which, as you know, was adopted in 2020 and 
signed into law. It specifically says that secretary of State, 
quote, ``shall review the cases of U.S. nationals detained 
abroad,'' to determine if there is, quote, ``credible 
information'' that they are, quote, ``unlawfully or wrongfully 
detained,'' based on 11 specific criteria. I am pleased to have 
made a contribution to drafting a number of those criteria 
myself that were passed in other forms several times before 
making it into the Levinson Act. If a conclusion is reached 
that a person is unlawfully or wrongfully detained, based on a 
totality of the circumstances, the case is supposed to 
immediately be then transferred from consular affairs to the 
office of the special Presidential envoy on hostage affairs.
    The adoption of the Levinson Act gave great hope to lawyers 
like myself, who had struggled to help--get help for wrongly 
detained Americans. There are a number of improvements that can 
be made. Specifically, improvements in the process. Right now, 
the determination process is facilitated by the Bureau of 
Consular Affairs, and it is opaque, inaccessible by families, 
and of an undetermined length. In my view, the law should be 
amended to require that in all such cases where family asks to 
engage on a potential designation, that there should be 
somebody assigned by the State Department to be a liaison with 
them and their advocates and to engage in ongoing information 
sharing and discussions.
    I also believe the law should require an initial 
determination to be made within 60 days of a U.S. national's 
detention, and that results of reviews have to be provided in 
writing. I also believe that a family, at its request, should 
be able to request a fresh review every 6 months from when the 
last letter might have been issued that a person was not so 
designated. I also believe we need to limit the determination 
to the application of identified criteria. Right now, there are 
11 criteria there are there which are listed, in essence, as 
optional to be applied. I would want those criteria to be 
limited to that list.
    The reason is because I have had a lot of experience with 
various cases, the most high-profile one being that of a 
Cambodian American, Theary Seng, who has a 6-year prison 
sentence in in Cambodia for literally posting to Facebook posts 
critical of the prime minister of the country. Here, we have as 
straightforward a case as you can imagine. The U.N. has said 
she is illegally detained. The American Bar Association, 
including Foundation for Justice, gave her case a rating of an 
F. Secretary Blinken and President Biden both went to Cambodia 
on separate occasions and actually called for her release 
directly to the prime minister of the country. Yet, the current 
position of the U.S. Government is simultaneously that her 
detention is politically motivated and unjust, and yet not 
wrongful or unlawful. If you can square that circle, I would be 
very impressed.
    Let me just conclude by just noting very quickly that I 
also believe the Levinson Act has to be amended to make sure 
there is no discrimination against Americans who have second or 
third nationalities. Right now, that is not as clear as it 
needs to be. I also think the definition of a hostage needs to 
be clarified, as I provide in my written testimony as well. Let 
me just conclude by saying that while I think the U.S. does a 
better job than any country in the world on these issues, 
helping our nationals abroad, there is a lot more that we can 
do. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Genser. We do 
thank you for your past success on legislative interpretation, 
and whatever amendments we need to proceed. again, it will be 
bipartisan that we look forward to working with you.
    Indeed, we are so fortunate our final witness is a world-
respected hero of a world-respected and beloved individual who 
stood up for freedom for the people of Russia, Evgenia Kara-
Murz. [Applause.]

TESTIMONY OF EVGENIA KARA-MURZA, ADVOCACY DIRECTOR AT THE FREE 
         RUSSIA FOUNDATION, WIFE OF VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA

    Ms. Kara-Murza: Mr. Chair, Mr. Co-chair, distinguished 
members of the Helsinki Commission, I thank you for this 
opportunity to be able to address you today. A little over 2 
weeks ago, the world saw the Russian Army commit to yet another 
war crime in Ukraine, killing over 50 civilians, including an 
8-year-old child, in one single airstrike. With Israel under 
horrific attack by Hamas and the entire ethnic Armenian 
population of Nagorno-Karabakh fleeing to neighboring Armenia 
after Azerbaijan assumed control of the enclave, we see how 
fast aggression and violence in its many shapes and forms is 
spreading in all directions.
    In the report released in Vienna on September the 22 of 
last year, following the invocation of the Moscow mechanism by 
38 OSCE participating states to assess the situation with human 
rights in Russia, OSCE Rapporteur Professor Nussberger came to 
the conclusion that, and I quote, ``repression on the inside 
and the war on the outside are connected to each other as if in 
a communicating tube,'' end of quote. Today, according to the 
very conservative numbers by Memorial, co-laureate of the 2022 
Nobel Peace Prize, the list of political prisoners in the 
Russian Federation counts over 600 people. This year marks the 
20 anniversary of the imprisonment of Alexey Pichugin, the last 
hostage of the Yukos case, held behind bars in violation of two 
decisions by the European Court of Human Rights.
    OVD-Info, an independent media project on political 
persecution in Russia, was able to establish that among around 
20,000 unlawfully detained since February 2022, there were at 
least 565 minors. Criminal proceedings were opened against at 
least nine of them before they reached the age of 18, including 
against 16-year-old Nikita Uvarov, who was sentenced to 5 years 
in prison for planning to blow up a virtual FSB building in the 
computer game Minecraft. With a goal to eradicate dissent and 
scare people into silence, the regime has brought back the 
entire arsenal of Soviet-style repressive instruments, 
including punitive psychiatry, torture, extreme violence, 
sexual violence, and de facto deprivation of parental rights.
    As the first-ever U.N. special rapporteur on human rights 
in the Russian Federation Marina Katzarova concluded in a 
recent report, the situation in Russia has signaled, and I 
quote, ``an effective closure of the civic space.'' It is 
important to realize that with all independent media banned and 
blocked, civil society institutions destroyed, and 
international observers and rapporteurs consistently denied 
entry to the country, we have only a vague idea of the scale of 
repression in the country. In this context, it is hard to 
overestimate the importance of the work and supporting such 
work, including financing of lawyers, civil society groups, and 
independent journalists who are doing their best to monitor the 
situation and report countless human rights abuses against all 
odds.
    One important project I have to mention in this regard is 
Poshepallon [ph], launched by Free Russia Foundation in June 
2022. That is specifically dedicated to the search of Ukrainian 
war prisoners and Ukrainian civilian hostages held in Russian 
prisons. Based on signed cooperation memorandums, our project 
works closely with the Ukrainian coordination headquarters for 
war prisoners affairs and the Ukrainian ombudsman for civilian 
hostages. Since its launch in June 2022, the project has 
received thousands of requests submitted by family members of 
Ukrainian war prisoners and Ukrainian civilian hostages. Thanks 
to a network of dedicated and brave Russian lawyers working on 
the ground, the project was able to locate hundreds of these 
people.
    Lawyers are often political prisoners' only connection to 
the world outside. With visits and phone calls by family 
members often denied. They are the only ones who can make sure 
the prisoner is still alive and at least the bare minimum of 
his or her needs is met. Yesterday, when Professor Cotler was 
being awarded by the Lantos Foundation for his truly awe-
inspiring, lifelong work, Congressman McGovern spoke about the 
importance of such work. Defending human rights defenders he 
called it, and that is the reason we are seeing a new wave of 
repression against lawyers in Russia.
    My husband, Vladimir Kara-Murza, joined the Memorial list 
of political prisoners in April 2022. I believe he is still 
alive today because of the international intention, combined 
with his lawyer's commitment to be there for him despite all 
odds. Designated as a foreign agent by the Russian State, 
Vladimir was sentenced to 25 years of strict regime for 
disseminating so-called knowingly false information about the 
Russian army, working with a so-called undesirable organization 
and, to top it off, for betraying his country in five speeches 
that he made on different international platforms, including 
here at the U.S. Congress, raising awareness about political 
repression in Russia and condemning the criminal war against 
Ukraine.
    Since September the 21st of this year, my husband has been 
held in a punishment cell of a maximum security prison colony 
in Siberia, about 2,000 miles away from Moscow. A man who has 
survived two assassination attacks by FSB operatives, and is 
suffering from a serious medical condition because of that, is 
being held in complete isolation in a cell that measures 10 
feet by five feet, with a bed that is affixed to the wall from 
6 a.m. to 10 p.m. every day. After Vladimir's verdict in April 
of this year, over 80 U.S. senators and U.S. representatives 
signed a letter addressed to State Secretary Blinken asking him 
to designate Vladimir as wrongfully detained. A month ago, 
following a hearing held at the Helsinki Commission, 
Congressman Wilson and Cohen introduced a bill requiring the 
secretary of State to determine whether my husband has been 
wrongfully detained.
    Vladimir's and my daughter, Sonya, spoke at that hearing 
about her father, and sent a heartfelt appeal to the U.S. 
Government to bring her dad back. Yet, despite all of this, in 
over 18 months since my husband's arrest, the U.S. Government 
has not been able to determine whether he's been wrongfully 
detained or not. Since Vladimir fits the criteria established 
by the Levinson Act, there can only be--there can only be two 
explanation for the inaction. Either the system does not work 
properly and needs to be fine-tuned, or the U.S. Government 
truly believes that my husband--a decades long human rights 
fighter, laureate of the 2022 Vaclav Havel Human Rights, and a 
fierce campaigner for the Magnitsky sanctions--has indeed been 
detained and sentenced to 25 years in strict regime for a good 
reason.
    I choose to be an optimist because, as Abraham Lincoln 
said, I do not see the point in being anything else. I choose 
to believe that it is a flaw in the system that can be fixed. 
In that regard, in over 18 months of campaigning to raise 
awareness about the plight of political prisoners, I have come 
to realize that democratic countries are generally not very 
well equipped to deal with the ever-rising problem of political 
prisoners and hostage taking. Dictators work together, learning 
from each other and sharing well-oiled repressive tools. Should 
not democratic countries also work together to counter such 
malign practices? In the words of Eleanor Roosevelt, when will 
our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent 
human misery rather than avenge it?
    I believe that the establishment of offices of political 
prisoners and hostage affairs in other democracies would not 
only be a more responsible, consistent, and adequate way to 
address the issue, but could help these countries bring their 
efforts together to not only deal with existing cases but to 
create and fine tune a set of instruments to prevent and 
counter such practices in the future. Democracies should learn 
to be more proactive instead of only doing damage control, 
especially when human lives hang in the balance. As we are 
approaching the international day of political prisoners on 
October the 30, the day when several prisoners of conscience 
including my husband will be holding a hunger strike in Russian 
prisons, I call on the U.S. Government to fight harder for the 
release of those who risked their lives to defend the 
principles this great country is built on. Thank you very much.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Ms. Kara-Murza. You 
and your husband indeed are an inspiration to persons such as 
myself, who have a deep affection for the people of Russia. 
With visits that I have had from Chelyabinsk, to Novosibirsk, 
to Moscow, to St. Petersburg, I just was so impressed by the 
beautiful culture, the art, literature, architecture. What a 
bright future Russia could have. Thank you for standing up for 
a free Russia.
    With that, we now proceed to Congressman Cohen. Each person 
will have a very strict 5-minute participation, because I want 
to make sure that Congresswoman Manning gets to get 5 minutes. 
Thank you very much.
    Co-chair Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Kara-Murza, you have--and the panel--have done a 
marvelous job of bringing up issues which need to be addressed 
by America and other democracies. Thank each of you for being 
here and for making your remarks and your suggestions. When we 
last were together, the Commission made clear that we wanted to 
see Vladimir designated as wrongfully detained. Have you had 
any contact with the State Department since that hearing?
    Ms. Kara-Murza: No, unfortunately, I have not had.
    Co-chair Cohen: Have you attempted to?
    Ms. Kara-Murza: I am always open to contact. I am always 
open to anything they might be willing to share with me, as to 
where their efforts go. Nothing has--no progress has been made, 
as far as I know.
    Co-chair Cohen: It is difficult for us to get them to 
respond too. Sometimes I think they are a foreign nation, 
because the efforts to have them respond have been nil. It is 
very frustrating. I know Mr. Blinken, Secretary Blinken, has 
the right values, but he does not act. Without action, values 
are limited.
    Mr. Genser, you have talked about changes to the Levinson 
Act. I know there are many that are there that you suggest. 
What do you think would be an effective way to get the State 
Department to respond, to get Levinson Act to be such that it 
is more effective?
    Mr. Genser: Yes, I mean, I think you only learn when the 
legislation is actually being implemented what the gaps are 
going to be between the aspiration and the reality. I think 
that we have seen a lot of--a lot of challenges with Levinson 
Act and its implementation. You know, there are other cases we 
have--of course, I have mentioned Theary Seng in Cambodia and 
Vladimir's cases. It is just as emblematic as Theary's case as 
well. I also know cases of Americans who have been, for 
example, the subject of decisions of the U.N. calling them held 
illegally in Saudi Arabia who have not been designated. Another 
case, as well in the UAE, and so, you know, we need to close 
those gaps.
    I think we need some forcing mechanisms here in terms of 
amendments to the Levinson Act. I think requiring a person to 
be actually assigned to the job of working with a family and 
their advocates is really, really important. In the year and a 
half I have been working on Theary Seng's case, so similar 
timeframe as Vladimir's, literally I cannot find a human being 
at the State Department willing to talk to me about why they 
came up with the determination that they did. You know, any 
time I try to reach out to various parts of the State 
Department, I am always sent back to the consular official in 
Phnom Penh, who has no ability to have any conversation about 
the substance of the Levinson Act determination process.
    Co-chair Cohen: Thank you for your work. I appreciate it.
    Professor, you are a hero. Somebody I have great admiration 
for. Thank you for your lifetime's work. I hope to fashion 
myself as best I can in the same model that you have. There are 
times--Evgenia said--you know, Lincoln said there is no other 
alternative than to be an optimist. Elie Wiesel said, you know, 
you cannot have--despair cannot be the answer; it must be hope. 
I get that.
    With Putin, what can be done to make Putin respond and act 
like a reasonable human being? You know, you mentioned that 
neuropathy is Russian law, you are supposed to be--well, Putin 
does not care about Russian law. Putin is the law. What can we 
realistically do with Putin to try to get him to release 
prisoners or to--
    Dr. Cotler: Well, I think we have to, in fact, pursue, as I 
say, not only justice for victims, but accountability. In this 
case, the importance of having an independent international 
tribunal for the crime of aggression, leadership crimes, as the 
Nuremberg Tribunal called it. Where the military and political 
leadership in Putin's Russia can therefore be held accountable, 
because the ICC and other bodies do not have that jurisdiction. 
I might add, parenthetically, because reference was made and we 
have been talking about declaring him an arbitrarily detained 
personal, Vladimir--under the Levinson Act. If a country like 
Canada, which as has been mentioned, is not only part--a 
partner in the Community of Democracies with U.S., not only a 
neighbor, but we are like family--if we could get both houses 
of the Canadian Parliament, as we did, both the House of 
Commons and the Senate, to unanimously--unanimously--confer 
upon Vladimir Kara-Murza honorary citizenship, the least you 
would think that our neighbor in the U.S. can do is have him 
declared an arbitrarily detained person.
    Sometimes it is good for the U.S. to follow Canada's 
example, as Canada has often followed the U.S. example. That 
kind of joint leadership and the leadership of the Community of 
Democracies, where we should not have a situation, like we 
recently witnessed, where somebody like Putin, who is under an 
international arrest warrant, is welcomed by Xi Jinping in 
China, who has an obligation to, in fact, enforce that arrest 
warrant. In fact, welcomes Putin. What we need is to combat 
this corrosive axis of evil by an intensified partnership 
amongst the Community of Democracies.
    Co-chair Cohen: Thank you, sir. My 5 minutes are up. I 
think we need to remember another Canadian, Leonard Cohen, who 
wrote about the crack in the wall where the light gets in. We 
got to find that crack. I yield back.
    Dr. Cotler: I might add, parenthetically, Leonard Cohen was 
a close friend and a lifelong colleague of mine.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Steve Cohen, and it 
is not a surprise that there are a number of Cohens of 
distinction. [Laughter.]
    So--and we now proceed to Congressman Mike Lawler of New 
York.

      STATEMENT OF MIKE LAWLER, U.S. HOUSE, FROM NEW YORK

    Representative Lawler: Thank you, Chairman.
    Certainly, what we have witnessed in the last few years is 
an unholy alliance between Russia, Iran, China, and North 
Korea. They have sought to destabilize the free world. They 
have sought to undermine the United States and our allies. In 
doing so, especially with Vladimir Putin and the Iranian-backed 
Hamas terrorist attacks in Israel, have committed serious war 
crimes and atrocities that cannot go on punished. What tools 
are there at the international level to hold Hamas accountable, 
to hold Iran accountable, to hold Vladimir Putin and Russia 
accountable? What would you like to see done? Mr. Cotler.
    Dr. Cotler: Well, you mentioned at this point about an 
unholy alliance. And there is this metastasizing axis of evil. 
I have sought to share with you some of the interrelationships 
here, but international human rights and humanitarian law, both 
in the cases of Russia's criminal aggression in Ukraine and 
Hamas' criminal aggression against Israeli civilians, these are 
the supreme crimes in international human rights and criminal 
law. The taking of hostages is a looking glass. Therefore, we 
need the multilateral coalition to, in fact, implement 
international human rights and humanitarian law and to call for 
the unconditional and immediate release of the hostages at the 
same time as we seek to secure the release of political 
prisoners. To use all the international instruments in that 
regard.
    The ICC, which should be used now with regard to Hamas in 
the same way that it was used with regard to arrest warrants 
regarding Putin and the like. The independent international 
tribunal, I said, because we will not be able to otherwise 
sanction the crimes of aggression, the leadership crimes. To 
get the ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross, who 
have not been implementing their mandate. If you speak to the 
families of the hostages, they will tell you they have gotten 
no answers from the ICRC, notwithstanding Hamas' brutal 
abduction, kidnapping, and forced disappearances of the 
hostages.
    I think what is important here is multilateral coalitions 
to not only affirm, but to implement the foundational norms of 
international human rights, humanitarian and criminal law, 
along the initiatives that I mentioned--ICC, international 
independent tribunal, ICJ initiatives, universal jurisdiction 
approaches, and the like, the whole arsenal of international 
legal accountability mechanisms.
    Representative Lawler: While I agree with you, part of the 
challenge here is that the United Nations, for instance, has 
historically shown a bias against Israel. Just yesterday, the 
secretary-general said that Hamas' terrorist attack did not 
happen in a vacuum, alleging that it is the Israeli people's 
fault for getting attacked and massacred by the Hamas 
terrorists. It is disgusting. He should resign in disgrace. You 
have a situation, the worst massacre of Jews since the 
Holocaust.
    We have Members of Congress--Members of Congress who repeat 
lies that Israel bombed a hospital, repeating it even yesterday 
despite all evidence to the contrary. We are dealing with a 
situation where reality is at odds with the fiction that has 
been promulgated, the antisemitism that has been promulgated, 
by leaders throughout the globe. While I agree with you, these 
international agencies need to band together with the United 
States, with our allies, to hold these folks accountable, it is 
difficult to do that when you have the secretary-general the 
United Nations blaming Israel for suffering a terrorist attack 
and the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.
    Dr. Cotler: Well, Congressman, you touched on another 
important point, that we are witnessing not only a resurgent 
global authoritarianism, that I described, but a resurgent and 
metastasizing global antisemitism. The tipping point for which 
was the World Conference Against Racism in Durban in 2001, 
which turned into a world conference of racism and hate against 
Israel and the Jewish people. That became the tipping point for 
the new antisemitism. That new antisemitism includes, 
regrettably, the laundering--the laundering of antisemitism 
under the very protective cover of the United Nations, under 
the authority of international law, under the culture of human 
rights, under the very struggle against racism itself. We have 
seen manifestations of this, not only in the United Nations, 
but in our own domestic communities.
    Part of our compelling responsibilities here are to combat 
this resurgent global antisemitism. There have been a dramatic 
rise in hate crimes targeting Jews since Hamas' criminal 
aggression against it. You would have thought it would have 
been the other way around, and so we have a moral inversion 
here. Whereas before Hamas invaded Israel, we had the highest 
rates of antisemitism since audits began 50 years ago. Yet, 
after this invasion, we have had a dramatic increase, not only 
in antisemitic incidences, but antisemitic hate crimes 
targeting Jews. We have to bear this in mind.
    Representative Lawler: Unfortunately, we have seen this 
song before. Israel, as it defends itself, will be under severe 
international pressure. Again, we have members in Congress 
demanding cease-fires, but no accountability for the terrorists 
that beheaded babies, burned babies, murdered Holocaust 
survivors. They are not worried about the accountability there. 
It is pathetic.
    I yield back.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Mike Lawler, and 
thank you for referencing the outrageous situation at the 
United Nations. It is inconceivable.
    We now proceed--hey, we have been joined by Senator Richard 
Blumenthal of Connecticut and also Congressman Marc Veasey of 
Texas. Many Members of Congress coming indicates how important 
each of you are as the message gets out of how we need to 
address political prisoners. We now proceed to Congresswoman 
Manning.

   STATEMENT OF KATHY MANNING, U.S HOUSE, FROM NORTH CAROLINA

    Representative Manning: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you 
know, on foreign affairs you and I speak with one voice from 
different sides of the aisle and with different accents. Since 
October 7, I have been meeting, and talking with, and receiving 
messages from the families of the more than 200 people that 
Hamas abducted in the most gruesome and savage attack on the 
Jewish people since the Holocaust. The families are frustrated. 
They are angry. Yet, they are hopeful that if we in Congress 
weigh in and use the power of the U.S. Congress, we can somehow 
secure the release of all the hostages. The captives are not 
just Israeli, they are not just Americans, they are more than 
40 different nationalities.
    Yesterday, one of the hostage families made a very 
compelling statement when it came to seeking the release of the 
hostages. They said, do not propose a selection process like 
they did during the Holocaust, where some were selected to be 
saved and others were left to be murdered. I am here because I 
am seeking answers. What can we in Congress be doing to secure 
the release of all the hostages in Gaza? While I appreciate the 
multiple steps that you laid out for what we should be doing in 
the long term, the question that I want to ask is: What can we 
in Congress be doing today to make a difference to secure the 
release of the hostages? Mr. Genser, Dr. Cotler, I pose that 
question to either of you.
    Mr. Genser: Well, obviously, this is a very complicated and 
challenging moment. The injustice, obviously, is palpable as it 
relates to the women, the children, even the babies grabbed by 
Hamas and taken into Gaza. There are no, we all know, quick or 
easy answers. You know, I think that negotiating their release 
and trying to get that done as quickly as possible has to be a 
top priority. I think that once Israel were to invade Gaza, it 
will become that much harder. I think that, you know, in the 
near term, we--you know, we do need to focus on those that are 
most in need of help or support. While I fully appreciate and 
understand your approach, Madam Congresswoman, in terms of 
trying to get them all out simultaneously without going through 
a selection process, it is historically not been the case that 
is the way that things have been done.
    Ultimately, there is going to be no satisfying answers 
here. At the end of the day, there is no easy military 
solution. I am sure that they are spread throughout Gaza. The 
kind of demands that Hamas is going to make for the release of 
the hostages are going to be extraordinary. I wish I had some 
quick or easy answers. I think from Congress, the most 
important thing to do is to be meeting with the families of the 
hostages, to be telling their stories, to put out photos of 
what happened. I think that we also need to be telling the 
story of what Hamas actually did, and putting out these 
horrific photos with, obviously, family's permission of what 
they were doing as well.
    We are living in this inverse morality world, as Professor 
Cotler said, where somehow up is down and left is right. We 
need the moral clarity to be able to have a discussion about 
what Hamas did without equivocation, without justification, 
without context. As a separate conversation, we can talk about 
what Israel is doing in Gaza in response to its right to self-
defense, and make sure that they are doing things consistent 
with international law.
    Representative Manning: Thank you. I want to turn to Dr. 
Cotler. I want to ask you a question, because there have been 
accusations of genocide being hurled at Israel as it goes after 
the Hamas terrorists, who so savagely attacked Israeli 
civilians. Can you talk to us about what the definition of 
genocide is and address this accusation?
    Dr. Cotler: Well, you know, the Genocide Convention sets 
forth five mass atrocities that would constitute acts of 
genocide. It includes as well the targeting of a people in 
whole or in part, you know, for their destruction. It includes, 
you know, serious acts of criminal murder, and the like. What I 
want to say with regard to these five acts of genocide is when 
one looks at it, it is Hamas that is perpetrating these acts of 
genocide. When you have the accusations against Israel, it is 
what is known as the false accusation in the mirror. Namely, to 
accuse the victim of the very the crimes that the perpetrator 
are committing.
    When you mentioned that October 7 was the worst day in 
Jewish history since the Holocaust, if I may, just on a 
personal level, I was in Jerusalem on that October 7. I was 
there with my family to celebrate my son's marriage. That 
Saturday was supposed to be a particularly festive Jewish 
sabbath, because it was taking place on the last day of the 
holiday of Sukkot, which is one of the most festive Jewish 
holidays in the Jewish tradition where we celebrate not only 
Jewish indigeneity but our common responsibilities, our common 
humanity. It was also the day of Simchat Torah, when we 
complete the reading of the Five Books of Moses and start it 
again. In other words, a date--a celebratory day.
    That day turned into one of horrors too terrible to be 
believed, but not too terrible to have happened. It is etched 
in my mind, in my being forever. That is why, when we speak now 
about the question of hostages, you mentioned 40 different 
nationalities. That is why we need a multilateral coalition 
that can speak collectively on behalf of these community of 
hostages from 40 different countries. That is why we need to 
adopt an action implementation plan as a matter of urgency that 
this multilateral coalition can pursue. That is why we need to 
ensure that the foundational norms of international human 
rights and humanitarian law, and the Genocide Convention which 
requires all State parties to the Genocide Convention, to 
prevent, to protect against, and to punish acts of genocide.
    That means that Hamas, that is engaged as we speak in 
ongoing and standing incitement to genocide--which is itself, a 
stand-alone breach of the Genocide Convention even if mass 
atrocities do not follow. That from 1988 on, they have been 
engaged in standing breaches of the Genocide Convention without 
accountability. We have to now collectively ensure that there 
is accountability, that there is at this point the prevention, 
the protection against, and the punishment of those engaged in 
acts of genocide. Combat the false inversions, where you go 
ahead and accuse the victim of the various--as I said, the 
various genocidal acts that the perpetrator--that Hamas is 
engaged in, aided and abetted, and we should not forget this, 
by Khamenei's Iran, which has armed, trained, financed, 
supported, and incentivize Hamas, which is effectively a proxy, 
along with Hezbollah, terrorist proxies of Iran. One should not 
forget this axis of evil.
    Representative Manning: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield 
back.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman Kathy 
Manning. Indeed, we are soulmates and look forward to working 
continually in a bipartisan manner.
    We were so fortunate to have Senator Richard Blumenthal 
from Connecticut. It is indeed an honor to have somebody from 
the House of Lords come visit us. [Laughter.]

 STATEMENT OF RICHARD BLUMENTAL, U.S. SENATE, FROM CONNECTICUT

    Senator Blumenthal: It is a great line, do you think? 
Although Canada does not have a House of Lords, does it?
    Dr. Cotler: It has a Senate.
    Senator Blumenthal: Right. Let me ask you both, because you 
have spoken so eloquently on the need for moral clarity from 
the administration and from Congress and we are here talking 
about both Ukraine and Israel together, where both are victims 
of hostage taking, is it not important for the Congress to 
speak not only in a bipartisan way but also in a unified way on 
both Ukraine and Israel? To combine the aid that we want to 
give to both in a single package, so that neither is left 
behind? Mr. Genser, maybe you can speak to that issue.
    Mr. Genser: Well, look, I think these are extraordinary 
times, undoubtedly. I think it is important for people to speak 
with moral clarity on these questions. As an international 
human rights lawyer, one conducts analyses of particular sets 
of facts and circumstances individually and not collectively. 
You know that, obviously, as a former attorney general of the 
State of Connecticut. You know, you do not look at a set of 
crimes that have been committed, except by looking at 
individual perpetrators and doing that analysis on an 
individual case, and indictments are issued on individual 
cases.
    Yet, what we see in the international community and we see 
sometimes in the Congress are false moral equivalencies being 
drawn or justifications being made for--you know, for two very, 
very different sets of topics as it relates to intent. I think 
the biggest thing that I would point out on Israel versus Hamas 
is what is the intent of each of the parties. The intent, 
obviously, if Hamas is to commit genocide, to kill every Jew in 
the world, and to wipe Israel off the map. The intent of Israel 
is to exercise its right of self-defense under the U.N. 
Charter, which is a legal and moral response. It needs to do so 
in accordance with the laws of war.
    I do think, coming to your narrower question, doing this, I 
think, jointly is very, very important, especially given the 
dissenting voices that we also see in the Congress on Ukraine, 
which to me are kind of shocking and, you know, horrific. I 
think what Putin is doing in Ukraine, how he is doing it, with 
the commission of mass war crimes, is, in fact, as Professor 
Cotler said, genocidal. The abduction of children across 
international borders--19,500, by Ukraine's count, as we heard 
from our prior witness--shocks the conscience. I think that we 
do need to deal with these issues together because I think that 
they are directly related, despite being, obviously, in 
different parts of the world.
    Senator Blumenthal: I think those points are very, very 
well taken. Let me ask you, Ms. Kara-Murza, how regularly do 
you hear from the State Department about your husband? Have you 
been provided any explanation or insight as to why he has not 
been designated as wrongfully detained?
    Ms. Kara-Murza: Unfortunately, I have not heard from the 
State Department in a while. As to the explanation, I am always 
told that the State Department is doing its best and that 
Vladimir is put in their public program on unjustly detained 
that brings attention to specific cases of politically--of 
people persecuted for political reasons. As to why the 
determination has not happened, that I have not received a 
clear response to, unfortunately.
    Senator Blumenthal: Thank you. Thank you for being here 
today, again, before our Commission. It really means a lot that 
you are speaking here on behalf of your husband and on behalf 
of other hostages that have been taken by Putin, including, 
although we do not necessarily regard them as hostages, the 
thousands of children that Putin has kidnapped and now are in 
either Russia or Belarus, in effect, being brainwashed. I do 
not think that term is too strong for what is happening. I want 
to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for, again, conducting this hearing 
on this very, very important topic. Thank you all for being 
here, and Mr. Chairman, thanks for your leadership.
    Chairman Wilson: Hear, hear. Thank you very much, Senator. 
Indeed, as an indication of how important our witnesses are, 
the issues are, thank you so much, Senator, for being here.
    We now proceed to Congressman Marc Veasey of Texas.

        STATEMENT OF MARC VEASEY, U.S. HOUSE, FROM TEXAS

    Representative Veasey: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. 
Lord Blumenthal, thank you for joining us today. [Laughter.]
    I tell you, one of the things that has really bothered me a 
lot when it comes to this discussion around antisemitism is the 
fact that we have stopped talking about a lot of the 
antisemitism that has been taking place in the Ukraine. I just 
want to remind everybody of just a few examples of that. You 
probably remembered when Putin unlawfully initially went into 
Ukraine, he said that he was going into Ukraine because of de-
Nazification of that country. Also, you have--there was early 
on repeated attempts when it was pointed out the President 
Zelensky was, in fact, Jewish himself, to try to delegitimize 
him being Jewish by saying that, oh, well, he Is not really 
that Jewish. We have also heard attempts from the Kremlin to 
try to say that that Jews were--the real Nazis were actually 
Jews. These are some claims and some things that we have 
repeatedly heard since this unlawful invasion of Ukraine.
    The reason why I bring that up because that President Biden 
in his speech last week before the Nation, he wanted to 
reinforce to the American public how important it was that we 
help our ally and friend Israel as they try to continue to 
combat what happened and the unlawful invasion in their 
country, and the antisemitism that is rampant there, and then 
also continue to keep our eyes on the ball as it relates to 
Ukraine. I wanted to ask you, how important is it--and I will 
start with, with Mr. Irwin. I wanted to ask you, how important 
is it that we continue to talk about the rise of antisemitism 
in the Middle East and what we are seeing now as it relates to 
Israel, but then also to continue to talk about antisemitism in 
the Ukraine, and remind the American public that it is 
important that we continue to fight both of these forces of 
antisemitism in very important parts of the world?
    Dr. Cotler: Well, Congressman, you have really touched on a 
larger, you know, parallelism here. In other words, what we are 
seeing is both in the case of Russia and Ukraine and Hamas and 
Israel, we are seeing, on the one hand, criminal aggression of 
Russia against Ukraine, criminal aggression of Hamas against 
Israeli civilians. It is paralleled also by its domestic 
repression in each case. In its domestic repression, the 
falsification and inversions, for example, Putin saying he 
launched his operation, which was really a criminal act of 
aggression, for purposes, as you mentioned, de-Nazification. 
Again, the false accusation in the mirror. It is Russia's 
criminal aggression in Ukraine which has been attended by war 
crimes, crimes against humanity, and acts which are 
constitutive of a genocide. Yet, he seeks to invert it by using 
the Nazification metaphor. Similarly, with regard to Hamas.
    I want to mention one thing about Hamas which we do not 
always appreciate. That Hamas is not only an enemy of the 
Jewish people, regrettably, it is an enemy also of the 
Palestinian people. It not only takes Israelis as hostages, but 
it holds its own Palestinian people hostage. It engages not 
only in war crimes and crimes against humanity, in the 
targeting of Israeli civilians, but it keeps his own citizens, 
Palestinian citizens, and uses them as human shields. You have 
another double war crime, both the targeting of Israeli 
civilians and using Palestinian civilians as human shields.
    You have in both cases, both in terms of Russia's criminal 
aggression in Ukraine, Hamas' criminal aggression against 
Israel, paralleled by massive domestic repression. Therefore, 
the need thereby to understand that both communities are being 
taken hostage by their very respective criminal leaderships.
    Representative Veasey: Thank you very much, and I really do 
hope that the panel and all of us will do everything in our 
power to remind people that the fight against antisemitism and 
the antisemitism that is taking place right now in the Middle 
East against Israel is important. It is also equally important 
to fight the antisemitism that Russia is blatantly putting on 
display right now in the Ukraine. We cannot turn our backs on 
what is happening in the Ukraine and only fight the fight in 
the Middle East. We have to make sure that we continue to fight 
in both places against this antisemitism.
    Dr. Cotler: Congressman, if I may just add one thing, 
because I just concluded my 3-year term as Canada's first 
special envoy for preserving Holocaust remembrance and 
combating antisemitism. One of the principal findings I had is 
that we not only have to combat--in that paradigm--combating 
antisemitism from the far right, from the far left, and radical 
Islam. That still remains true. We--but one of the most 
disturbing findings I felt in the 3-years was that we are 
witnessing the increasing mainstreaming, normalizing, 
legitimation of antisemitism in the political culture, the 
popular culture, the entertainment culture, the sports culture, 
and in particular in the campus culture. Here in North America, 
that is the future leadership in Congress, in in the media, and 
academia, and the like. We have to combat that kind of 
pernicious mainstreaming that we have been witnessing both in 
your country and in mine.
    Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congressman Veasey. 
Again, we could tell you that Democrats and Republicans are 
united. Well, here we are, and so you can see it. That is so 
important for the world to understand that, hey, the media is 
going to cover the divisions, and that is understandable, 
except for one thing. The people of the United States stand 
with the people of Ukraine, stand with the people of Israel, 
stand with the people of Taiwan. Again, what a honor for all of 
us. We are so grateful.
    Evgenia Kara-Murza, a world hero married to a world hero. 
Thank you for your courage for the people of Russia, that we 
hope 1 day will enjoy the blessings of liberty. It is so 
exciting, and then, Mr. Genser, thank you so much. Then 
Attorney General Cotler, I have never seen such clarity from a 
Canadian, and so I--[laughter]--and, hey, and I want to--and so 
thank you for the different statements you have made. Your 
clarity is so impressive and, hey, our prayers with your 
family, thank goodness.
    I want you to know in my home State of South Carolina, we 
love Canadians. We have Can-Am days every year. You are welcome 
to Myrtle Beach. For 60 years, we welcome our Canadian 
visitors. You are like swallows to Capistrano. When you show 
up, it means summer's coming, so please come back.
    With that, indeed--
    Dr. Cotler: With pleasure.
    Chairman Wilson: Another point. Thank you for your 
reference to the axis of evil. Hey, this just cannot be 
ignored, that we have a war criminal Putin, we have the Chinese 
Communist Party, we have Iran, and people say proxies. It needs 
to be puppets. Proxies is too nice. These are puppets. These 
are dictators, rule of gun, opposing democracies, rule of law. 
Not authoritarians or whatever, autocrats, whatever 
terminology. It is dictators. They do not like that term, which 
is good. That is how you determine what to use.
    Also, I want to point out that I appreciate, Attorney 
General, you referencing Nuremberg. You are ahead of the curve. 
That is on November the 21st we will be having a hearing, two 
hearings. In the morning, relative to the kidnapping of 
Ukrainian children. In the afternoon, we will have a general 
war crimes. This will be at the very historic Courtroom 60 in 
Nuremberg, were the Nazi war criminals were tried and 
convicted. Indeed, with the--with the situation, even in 
absentia.
    Then, as I conclude I want to point out that none of you 
have been exaggerating what is going on. With Putin, with Iran, 
and that is that, indeed, we should know the Hamas covenant of 
August the 18, 1988. I want to quote, Article Seven, quote--and 
if you will stay for a minute, I want to get a picture with 
the--you are a dignitary. Anyway, Article Seven, quote, ``The 
day of judgment will not come until Muslims fight Jews and kill 
them. Then the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees. The rocks 
and trees will cry out, Oh Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind 
me. Come and kill him.'' End of quote.
    How clear could that be? How clear on the floor of the 
parliament in Tehran, death Israel, death to America, in 
English. They are very thoughtful to let us know what they have 
planned for us. We--what an opportunity that we have to work 
together, and so with this, I am just grateful for OSCE. The 
staff members, thank you, and thank you to our witnesses. I am 
confident that democracies will prevail. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 11:50 a.m., the hearing ended.]