[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
HAMAS' HOSTAGES, PUTIN'S PRISONERS, AND FREEING INTERNATIONAL CAPTIVES:
TOWARD STRONGER U.S. ANDGLOBAL ACTION FOR INTERNATIONAL POLITICAL
PRISONER DAY
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
OCTOBER 25, 2023
__________
Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in
Europe
[CSCE118-10]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via www.csce.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
53-898 WASHINGTON : 2023
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE
U.S SENATE
JOE WILSON, South Carolina Chairman BEN CARDIN, Maryland Co-Chairman
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Ranking ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi
Member Ranking Member
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
MIKE LAWLER, New York SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MARC VEASEY, Texas
EXECUTIVE BRANCH
Department of State - to be appointed
Department of Defense - to be appointed
Department of Commerce - to be appointed
C O N T E N T S
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Page
COMMISSIONERS
Hon. Joe Wilson, Chairman, from South Carolina................... 1
Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, from Tennessee................. 5
Hon. Victoria Spartz, from Indiana............................... 7
Hon. Emanuel Cleaver, from Missouri.............................. 9
Hon. Mike Lawler, from New York.................................. 20
Hon. Richard Blumenthal, from Connecticut........................ 24
Hon. Marc Veasey, from Texas..................................... 26
OTHER MEMEBERS PRESENT
Hon. Kathy Manning, from North Carolina.......................... 22
WITNESSES
Davyd Arakhamia, Leader of the Servant of the People Party and
Chief Ukrainian Negotiator for Prisoners of War and Abductees.. 3
Irwin Cotler, Chair of the Raoul Wallenberg Centre for Human
Rights, Former Minister of Justice and Attorney General of
Canada......................................................... 12
Jared Genser, International Human Rights Lawyer, Managing
Director of Perseus Strategies................................. 14
Evgenia Kara-Murza, Advocacy Director at the Free Russia
Foundation, Wife of Vladimir Kara-Murza........................ 16
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COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN
EUROPE,
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Wednesday, October 25, 2023.
The hearing was held from 10:05 a.m. To 11:50 a.m., room
1334 Longworth House Office Building, Washington, DC,
Representative Joe Wilson [R-SC], Chairman, Commission for
Security and Cooperation in Europe, presiding.
Committee Members Present: Representative Joe Wilson [R-
SC], Chairman; Representative Steve Cohen [D-TN], Ranking
Member; Representative Victoria Spartz [R-IN]; Representative
Emanuel Cleaver [D-MO]; Representative Mike Lawler [R-NY];
Senator Richard Blumenthal [D-CT]; Representative Marc Veasey
[D-TX] Other Members Present: Representative Kathy Manning [[D-
NC].
Witnesses: Irwin Cotler, Chair of the Raoul Wallenberg
Centre for Human Rights, Former Minister of Justice and
Attorney General of Canada; Davyd Arakhamia, Leader of the
Servant of the People Party and Chief Ukrainian Negotiator for
Prisoners of War and Abductees; Jared Genser, International
Human Rights Lawyer, Managing Director of Perseus Strategies;
Evgenia Kara-Murza, Advocacy Director at the Free Russia
Foundation, Wife of Vladimir Kara-Murza.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE WILSON, CHAIRMAN, U.S. HOUSE,
FROM SOUTH CAROLINA
Chairman Wilson: [Sounds gavel.] The hearing will come to
order. Ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank everyone for
being here today, and we need to address the attention of
political prisoners and those who have been taken hostage and
kidnapped around the world.
As we are doing that, I am beginning and I know that my Co-
Chair, Congressman Steve Cohen, will be here any minute.
I am really grateful that we have Congresswoman Victoria
Spartz here with us today. She is quite unique. She was born in
Ukraine. Actually, she was born in the USSR, and thank goodness
we can now say Ukraine, so we are delighted.
Congressman Cohen will be here, and our Senate colleagues
also, and other House members. As always, there is so many
conflicting meetings, but we want to--I want to proceed because
this is so important and our honored guest has another
commitment to leave.
With that in mind, we see that--the shocking stories every
day--the flashing across television screens, newspaper
headlines, and the latest updates buzzing on our phones--
innocent individuals kidnapped and thrown into hellish
captivity by murderous terrorists like the puppets of Iran
Hamas, dictators who are--like the war criminal Vladimir Putin,
and the heinous, barbaric oppressors around the world. All are
designed to serve their evil aims of turning innocent people
into human bargaining chips for destroying democracies and
individuals' freedom through fear.
We live in a new world that I have labeled cellphone wars.
It is--oppressors have weaponized our interconnected world and
media. They leverage technology and global media to broadcast
their captives' horror as part of their vile plans to undermine
faith in democracies and our ability to protect free citizens.
We must face a hard truth: Until we as democracies stand up and
stand together with stronger measures to free captives and stop
their seizure, the terrorists and dictators will continue to
leverage hostages and political prisoners against us.
We are in a war we did not choose, with war criminal Putin
invading Ukraine on February 24, 2022, and Iran's puppets
invading Israel on October 7, this month. This is a war between
dictators with rule of gun invading democracies with rule of
law.
That is why we are here today. I am grateful to be here,
ultimately, with Ranking Member Cohen and other esteemed
experts and colleagues to find solutions and stronger ways of
these--to end these horrific acts and to achieve peace through
strength.
Ranking Member Cohen is a leader on these issues at the
OSCE's Parliamentary Assembly, where he serves as the special
representative for political prisoners. Last year, he and I
introduced a bill to recognize October 30 as the International
Day of Political Prisoners.
We all must realize that, beyond raising attention, new
concrete actions need to be taken by America and other
democratic governments. Too often, families of hostages,
prisoners, even senior congressional leaders cannot get answers
from the State Department or who--or why they refuse to
recognize leaders like Vladimir Kara-Murza as, quote,
``wrongfully detained'' while his conditions dangerously spiral
in--out of control in Putin's prisons.
I note for the record the State Department's been
officially invited to the hearing today, as they were to last
month's hearing on Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is so brave and
courageous; and his wife, Evgenia, here today. Yet, it has not
sent anyone from the headquarters just a few miles away to
answer basic questions. We are threatened with an incredible,
horrible situation facing Hamas hostages and Putin's prisoners,
with kidnapped infants and children including millions of
Ukrainian women and children held captive on their own soil by
Russian persons--troops. Other innocents are held in captivity
with odd excuses or failures to act or answer questions are
unacceptable.
The murderous Hamas puppets of Iran have unleashed
unimaginable horror upon innocent Israeli infants, children,
women, elderly, and all others. They have killed and brutalized
only for the sake of killing and brutalizing. That is what the
terrorists do to cause fear and fulfill their goal of having a
murder of the Jewish people. We mourn every single innocent
life that has been lost and pray for the well-being of the
loved ones left behind.
The terrorists have taken hostages, many innocent civilians
who are--were going about their daily lives, including at least
13 Americans who are now captive. Thirty-three Americans, as
Congressman Eldridge [sic; Emanuel] Cleaver will let you know,
have sadly been murdered in--by the Iranian puppets in Israel.
The hearing will investigate the instruments we, the
American government, has as our brothers--as our toolbox to
help the captives. Over the years, we have held up--stood up
several legislative efforts to address the exact numbers, but
we have learned that they are not adequate. Too often, our
government fails to act or to sit or answer questions, citing
legal loopholes or definitions rather than acting. The Putins
of the world, as we see, and the terror groups are taking
Americans hostage. This will not stand. We need to have robust
strategies and responses. I believe we will and it will be
bipartisan. Congressman Cleaver is with us today and
Congresswoman Spartz, and so it is bipartisan right now on
behalf of the people of Ukraine and Israel. With that, we need
a robust response.
I am grateful that we have with us Davyd Arakhamia, and he
is a member of the parliamentary faction--leader of the Servant
of the People Party, the chief Ukrainian negotiator for
prisoners of war and abductees. I was very grateful to meet
with the parliamentarian in May in Kyiv. He has led the
incredible challenge of negotiating to free innocent men,
women, and children, and infants Russia's army has kidnapped
from Ukraine. There is perhaps no better person in the world
today to describe the realities of confronting Putin's
dictatorial regime, which is willing to terrorize and sacrifice
innocent lives. I recognize that we have a very important
person with us today and thank you for being here, and we look
forward to your testimony.
TESTIMONY OF DAVYD ARAKHAMIA, LEADER OF THE SERVANT OF THE
PEOPLE PARTY AND CHIEF UKRAINIAN NEGOTIATOR FOR PRISONERS OF
WAR AND ABDUCTEES
Mr. Arakhamia: Thank you very much, dear Chairman Wilson,
Co-Chair Cohen, and Victoria, and all other members of
Commission, ladies and gentlemen, all people who are watching
us.
I would like to thank, first of all, the Commission for
this important hearing, because it is not only for the
Commission; it is for the whole world to watch and for the
whole world to react. We know, like, what is happening with
Hamas hostages right now. Definitely, you know, like, I will
focus in my speech mostly about things that happening in
Ukraine, but this does not mean that we only focus on Ukraine.
We focus on all issues that is right now outstanding and
getting hotter and hotter. We think that, you know, like, right
now it is a historical moment where democracies have to be
united against, you know, dictatorships. Basically, like, you
know, it looks like we are in a pre-World War III, you know,
where democracies have to be united and, you know, protect
everybody who is suffering from these dictatorships.
Ukraine is fighting. You know, Ukraine is fighting every
day. Most of the people think that Ukraine is fighting on, you
know, an invisible format where you have artillery shots, where
you have drone attacks. Since last 3 months, it became swarm
drone attacks; 40, 50, sometimes 60 drones at a time are
attacking single locations with one single goal, is to destroy
--so to drain off all of our possibilities for air defense and
then to destroy the targets. Primarily, those are civilian
targets. Last year, they tried to do the blackout in the
country, to target all the electrical plants. This year, they
are going to repeat. This year, unfortunately, they are more
weaponized. Despite the sanctions, you know, they still managed
somehow to increase the production of the missiles, drones, and
all other things.
There is invisible part of the war. I mean, it is not
invisible; it is multidimensional. It is, like, only visible
for certain people. Primarily, I am talking about the children.
We have a state-owned portal, Children of the War. I checked
the number yesterday. Yesterday alone, there were registered
19,546 children who were deported or forcibly relocated by
Russia--19,500. Sounds like a lot, but if you take a look to
Moscow, what Moscow reports, Moscow officially reports and
claims that it managed to relocate 744,000 children. You see,
like, this big difference. Why? They portray that this is an
attempt to save young generation from the war, but this is not
true because when we tried to investigate those stories, we
have always identified that they change the names of these
children. They put these children in some foster families. They
put them in--you know, in special schools where they have
compulsory so-called patriotic courses where they aim to twist
the conscience on--you know, like, and impose the blind love to
Russia and readiness to die for the President Putin.
We think that this is a crime. Let me remind you that the
forcible transfer of children, that was a main element of the
crime of genocide in the act incriminated to Putin by the
International Criminal Court, where we--the Criminal Court
issued the search-warrant order.
Besides children, 28,000 adult civilians are currently,
according to our records, considered missing under special
circumstances where they deprive the personal liberty as a
result of Russia armed aggression. Many of them are held in
detention camps or prisons for foreigners, both on the
temporarily occupied territories of Ukraine and those in
Russia. Despite being peaceful and posing no harm, civilians
become subject to torture--cruel, inhuman, and degrading
treatment.
The most important thing for us that there is no
humanitarian missions that they allow to visit and check and
verify--no Red Cross, no human right protection organizations.
They do not allow anyone to go and check the numbers, verify,
get the registry, get the records, and so on.
In full, the same situation remains concerning the
Ukrainian prisoners of the war. In full violation of Geneva
Conventions, independent observers, in particular the
representatives of the ICRC, are not allowed to access those
people and those persons. They remain subject to humiliation
and ill-treatment from the Russian staff.
Those are challenges that we are facing, but we are not--we
continue to fight and we have two dimensions.
One is the military dimension where, you know, like, you
can check it in the news. We would like--we would like--I would
like to use the opportunity to ask you to support the funding
request. Obviously, you know about this need.
The second one is that to use your tool as a Commission
to--first, to underline all those circumstances; second, to
develop an action plan. I think that if we would together fight
to have observers--maybe it could be third-party observers that
Russia can at least try to allow to see--we would all have and
own verified information on both sides so then we can address
with a solution.
Thank you very much. I would like, again, thank you for all
the support that you gave to Ukraine, and I promise that we
would continue to fight for the freedom and democracy in
Ukraine.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Parliamentarian
Arakhamia, and just--we just appreciate your courage. It is
truly indicated.
We have, indeed, been joined. I am very grateful again to
show how bipartisan this is. The American people support the
people of Ukraine. We support the people of Israel. We support
the people of Taiwan.
With that, I would like to call on an opening statement
from our Co-chair, Congressman Steve Cohen from Tennessee.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE COHEN, RANKING MEMBER, U.S.
HOUSE, FROM TENNESSEE
Co-chair Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank our witness
for traveling all over to us and speaking, with other
parliamentarians from Ukraine, with some of us yesterday
afternoon.
Mr. Wilson and I have been very bipartisan in our support
of Ukraine, realizing that Ukraine is a sovereign nation whose
borders were infringed upon by Russia, that Russia had the
intent to destroy the country of Ukraine--considering that
Ukraine does not exist, that it is only part of Russia, and it
is never been an independent country, and should not be one. It
is much analogous to Hamas and their credo that Israel does not
exist, should be wiped off the map, and that they should be
destroyed.
Putin wants a genocide in Ukraine, and he is committed all
the acts that should have it designated as a genocide. Mr.
Wilson and I have had bills to declare this a genocide, but for
reticence in our State Department and some recalcitrance on
their part it has not become law, unfortunately. It is clear
what they have done. They tried to destroy the culture of the
Ukrainian people. They have raped Ukrainian women, tortured
Ukrainian prisoners, kidnapped Ukrainian children, and stated
improperly and unfounded that Ukraine is not a nation.
Hamas is the same thing. They raped women. They decapitated
people. They kidnap children and individuals ranging from the
elderly to infants. That you--Israel does not exist, and they
do not want it to exist. They have taken--kidnapped individuals
who they have as hostages. There is so much alike in Hamas and
Russia. They are bullies who want to control the people that
they despise. They do not understand any of the concepts of
humanity, of getting along, and trying to make the world a
better place.
I was appointed by our previous OSCE president, Ms.
Cederfelt, as the special representative on political
prisoners. Today, with the work of Congressman Wilson and I
together, but Congress Wilson initiated it, this is, I think,
World Political Prisoner Day, or give or take a day, right? My
charge is to bring the cases of political prisoners, of which
Russia and Belarus are probably the two most egregious, to the
world's attention. One of whom was my friend Vladimir Kara-
Murza, who was a friend of this particular body and a friend of
democracy, and resident here in America. He should have been
declared, and should be declared, under the Levenson Act as
wrongfully detained.
Once again, reticence on the State Department, which I
cannot understand, I could not understand their tardiness in
giving ATACMS and other weapons which are needed by the
Ukrainians to fight off the Russians. Eventually they get
around to it, but eventually is not good enough. The time is
now. The time is now for political prisoners. I do not have any
thought that Putin's going to let Vladimir out of prison, just
like he is not going let Navalny out. They oppose this corrupt
oligarchical control leadership in Russia and would like to see
Russia be democratic and free, and that is what Navalny's
about. That is what Kara-Murza's about, and that is what so
many other political prisoners in Russia are about. He is not
going to let them out.
Israel is going to have to free the prisoners they have to
get the 200 hostages free. In the long run, that is going to be
a problem. Many of the Hamas that came into the kibbutzes spoke
Hebrew fluently because they had been prisoners and they had
learned how to speak Hebrew in an efficient way, and they were
effective and efficient terrorists, killing people and getting
in. The head of Hamas spent 20 years in an Israeli prison. You
let them out, they are just worse, and they come back to haunt
you. That is going to have to happen.
I want the hostages to be freed. I want our political
prisoners to be freed. I see Evgenia here, and, you know, as I
spoke to you, it is just--I feel for you and your children not
having Vladimir. I want to do everything I can. He told me
once, he said the worst thing for political prisoners, to be
forgotten, because they their conscience is what drives them to
the positions they take that makes them political prisoners and
puts them in the gulag, and that conscience is something that
people need to remember. It needs to be brought before people's
minds, the kind of people that we have in this country still
who are willing to sacrifice their freedom for an idea, and the
idea is freedom.
We are about to lose it in America. Part of the problem we
have got here has been, continues to be, and will be unless we
win this next election, Donald Trump. That is the reason why a
lot of Republicans are falling off in support for Ukraine,
because Trump won the election of 2016 with Putin's help, with
the help of the social media factory in St. Petersburg, and
that is why they want it. He wants to put the same team
together, and if Putin is his friend and Putin will help him
try to win the 2024 election.
Joe Wilson, and Mike McCaul, and Mike Turner, and some
other Republicans are very strong in support for Ukraine. I am
afraid they are not a majority. I am afraid the candidate they
have up today is not for getting Ukraine funding. Whether he
will support the package because Israel's in it and his
Evangelical friends want us all to go back to Israel to be in
the rapture, and that is important to him, so be it. He is for
Israel. We will deal with him at the rapture time, but he is
not for Ukraine funding. I think we are at a critical point,
and hopefully we will overcome it and we will see something
occur that is--but Trump is a problem. Trump's a problem to
freedom everywhere in the world, and a problem with honesty,
decency, the rule of law, and due process. That is all I got to
say about bipartisanship now.
I yield back the balance of my time. [Laughs.]
Chairman Wilson: Mr. Co-Chairman, thank you, sort of.
[Laughter.] I mean, no, hey, democracy everybody's not going to
agree, Okay? The bottom line, but we--hey, again, bipartisan.
We have been joined by Congresswoman Kathy Manning, from my
sister State of North Carolina. We are--and so we can work
together, and indeed, Parliamentarian Arakhamia, I am going to
defer to let Congresswoman Spartz--hey, what a symbol. We could
tell you that we have great affection for the people of
Ukraine. We have affection for people who--formerly of the
Soviet Union. We even had hopes for the people of the Russian
Federation, but we have a living example of one serving here.
Before we begin, I do have to say one thing, Okay,
concerning President Donald Trump. He can be assaulted by
reality. He was the one who sent Javelin missiles to Ukraine,
against the advice. He is the one who remarkably put American
troops in Poland, which is an incredible move of American
defensive capability. He is the person who warned Chancellor
Angela Merkel that Nord Stream 2 was capitulation to Putin and
should be blocked. I--and also he is the one who had the guts
and courage to move the American embassy from Tel Aviv to
Jerusalem, to recognize the Golan Heights. President Trump, if
he is reelected, actually Congressman Cohen and I will be right
there cheering him on the good policies he has.
With that in mind, we now--okay. [Laughter.] See, look at
that. See, I have already converted him. Anyway, no, I did not
do that. You are still a good Democrat. Pardon me. Anyway, hey,
Congresswoman Spartz.
STATEMENT OF VICTORIA SPARTZ, U.S. HOUSE, FROM INDIANA
Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As much as
deliberation and disagreements we have here, we are still a
free country. I disagree with Representative Cohen, but I
respect his opinion. I have to tell you something, that it is
very important for us to be able to disagree but do things when
it is in our national interest. I truly believe that we will
come together, Republicans and Democrats. All of us understand
that it is in our national interest for Ukraine and Israel to
defeat very aggressive, and tyrannical, and really terrorist
groups that now try to destabilize the whole world and kill a
lot of people, millions of lives.
I will be honest with you, I think there is just something
that Republicans feel that President Biden needs to save this
republic too. We need to secure our border and dealing with
crushing debt, because if America is not strong there is no
hope for anyone else. I think we will come to consensus and
agreement that we need to do both and do things for our
country. Just kind of talking--you know, we will get off our
political debates and deliberation, and I think we will have a
good speaker soon, and then we will have more deliberation.
Just talking, you know, a lot of people do not understand
that, you know, that Ukraine is very multinational country, and
you are kind of a testament to that. A lot of people do not
understand that you were born in Russia, you have a Georgian
heritage according to your last name, and you understand what
it is, what is at stake. You know, it is nothing to do with the
territories or protecting anyone. It is really people that
believe in freedoms, want to stand up and die for those
freedoms. Unfortunately, a lot of Ukrainians are dying.
Unfortunately, you know, countries go through this, because
when you get tyranny it is very difficult to get back from
dictatorship.
I grew up in the Soviet Union, now Ukraine, but I
understand what it is. I understand what our founding fathers
did for us. I think Ukrainian people is, like, founding fathers
of the United States of America. I think you are going to be
very strong republic. American people will stand and help, you
know, because American people stand for freedoms and always
will, and stand with our lives.
My question is for you. You know, what do you think we
could do better to help? There are a lot of terrible things
happening, and you know, we get busy with a lot of things and
politics and debates and election. We have real lives that that
getting destroyed in many countries. I think we have to come
together to do better. What do you think would be helpful for
us, and maybe too you could share some of the things and
policies beyond resolutions, we do a lot of resolutions, that
we maybe need to do to help, because there are some people are
really suffering. We can help these people to--you know, to
survive this brutality.
Mr. Arakhamia: You know, U.S. is already doing a lot, both
on the security side and both on the humanitarian side as well.
We believe that, you know, the main power of the U.S. is U.S.
can unite and continue to, you know, reunite the coalition of
our partners. You know, like, in European Union is not that
flat. We have Hungary, which is always, like, trying to, you
know, to pronounce Putin's narratives inside the European
Union. We have--they also have a lot of election processes next
year. For example, in Slovakia there is, like, a pro-Russian
party already vote in the elections. We already feeling this
kind of vibes, negative vibes, you know, like, pro-Russian
vibes inside the European Union.
I think that U.S. is already--holds the leadership and this
process. We just, like, want U.S. to have, like, more actively
participate in this process to continue and keep people united,
you know, against the Russian Federation. You see that first
year was really firm. Second year was softer, because people
start to think about the money. Russia found numerous ways how
to avoid sanctions through different proxy countries.
Unfortunately, you know, like, we--the speed of our--you know,
as a united coalition--the speed of our reaction is not
comparable with the speed of their inventions how to avoid
sanctions.
Those are, you know, like, clear statements. If you go to
State Department and ask for the stats, you will see that they
are changing really rapidly. We are reacting really slowly,
because we have to talk, we have to agree with all of us, you
know, like so. If we could speed up those processes and, you
know, try to tight those sanctions processes for the critical
components--like rockets, missiles, drones--which are bringing
the most damage to civilians right now. That would be really
helpful.
Representative Spartz: Thank you so much.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you for yielding back again.
Another living example of our appreciation of people of
Central and Eastern Europe, we have been joined by Congressman
Michael Lawler of New York. He was bright enough to marry a
beautiful young lady from Moldova. I give him credit, as I do
my oldest son, Alan Wilson, the attorney general of South
Carolina. He was smart enough to marry a beautiful Polish
American, so hey, over and over again you see a connection.
Then we have superstars like Congressman Emanuel Cleaver
here, all the way from Missouri. Congressman Cleaver.
STATEMENT OF EMANUEL CLEAVER, U.S. HOUSE, FROM MISSOURI
Representative Cleaver: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me, first of all, express appreciation to you for all
of the just causes that you have involved yourself in over
time, including the Madiba, Nelson Mandela, who was imprisoned
wrongly. What I am--what I am wanting you to help me fix that
in my mind is the difference--because of what is going on right
now--and with Hamas. What is the difference between a political
prisoner and a hostage?
Mr. Arakhamia: I will try to answer. A political prisoner
is mostly a person which the power on another side treats him
as a risky factor to destabilize the regime. The hostage is the
person which has--might have no political interest, no
political role, but just a civilian who was taken out, you
know, and getting tortured, or misplaced, and shot. I think
that the main reason is, like, this political component. Like,
the hostage could be political prison. The hostage--but the
hostage alone could be non-political prisoner, just a hostage
as a civilian who was taken.
Representative Cleaver: Mandela would have been a political
prisoner? Is that--yes. This is something I am interested in
dealing with. The other issue, you know, maybe much more
importantly, is what is different now? Or is there a difference
in Eastern Europe in the--in the way Russia is perceived as
it--or juxtaposed to how the Soviet Union was perceived? I
mean, with all the instability, what is the difference that
people can feel in Eastern Europe? Is the threat level higher?
Has life changed, what?
Mr. Arakhamia: Russia is trying to build a country which is
like a kingdom, when there is a one king who decides for
everyone in the country. All other countries, democratic
countries, yes, like Ukrainians, we do not have any kings. We
do not have any respect to--you know, like to people who try to
monopolize the power. We would like to live freedom life, where
democratic values is the main value, where the life of the
human and his freedom is main value. That is what we are
fighting for.
When other countries are trying to be close to Russia, they
immediately feel this. Like Georgia is my Motherland. Georgia
now is really pro-Russian. People are super--so the power, the
government, is pro-Russian. People are, you know, like anti-
Russian so much. Even when the Russian ship--cruise ship,
normal civilian cruise ship, is being--you know, is coming to
the city, they, like, just completely--there are so many
protests, people are fighting, people have demonstrations, and
so on. Because they feel they do not want Russia to come
closer, because they already had this in 2008. They had this
war. They know what is the price for so-called Russian values.
Representative Cleaver: What I do not understand is, in the
Middle East, I mean, we can go the boundaries for Israel, based
on Torah, based on tradition. I am wondering, what does--you
may not be able to even answer this. I mean, I should probably
ask Putin. What does he base his constant statements on about
that Ukraine is a part of Russia? I mean, I know about during
the Soviet Union and iron curtain and so forth, but is there
any logic in there? History that we do not know about?
Mr. Arakhamia: It is just propaganda, because actually
Ukraine is the mother of Russia. It is the Kyiv Rus. Russia was
just, like, a swamp. Moscow was nonexistent when the Kyiv Rus
was already historical center of civilization. For Putin, you
know, because he is, like, very good at propaganda, we should
confirm this. You know, like, I think Russia holds second place
in the world for propaganda. No. 1 is North Korea, and the No.
2 is Russia.
That is why you know, like, a lot of people are believing.
I can tell you, like, we have a report by our intel showing
that Russians are now buying out the real social media
accounts--U.S. social media accounts, in Twitter, in other
places, just to, you know, like, to put this in comments so
people reading the Twitter, they see in the comments, they
started to believe these stories. That is just a weapon that--
you know, 21st-century weapon that we should somehow also stop.
Representative Cleaver: I agree. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver.
Indeed, this first panel will come conclude.
Parliamentarian Arakhamia, thank you so much for your courage.
The courage of the people of Ukraine is an inspiration to the
world. It is being recognized worldwide. The thought that--who
would ever imagine that Sweden would give up 200 years of
neutrality to join NATO? Who would ever imagine that Finland,
with an 830-mile border, would join NATO? Indeed, something
that would be helpful to us is for our NATO allies all to
really achieve the 2 percent of expenditures for self-defense
for military.
Then it spreads around the world. Indeed, South Korea, and
Japan are establishing every effort to really increase the size
of their militaries, the capabilities of their militaries. We
will be meeting even this week with the Prime Minister of
Australia. Worldwide there is a recognition of the bravery of
the people of Ukraine. They should understand that democracies
are facing the dictators and will face the dictators, despite
whatever detractors that we could find in any other political
party. With that, again, we would like to thank you, and we
will now welcome the second panel. Hey, clap. [Applause.]
[Break.]
Chairman Wilson: Ladies and gentlemen, we should resume
with the hearing today concerning political prisoners, captive
individuals, hostages around the world. With that in mind, even
before we begin I would like to recognize two individuals here
who can bring, sadly, a real-world understanding of how
imminent--this month, October 7, the incredible tragedy, the
invasion and mass murder of that day. With us we have Noam
Perry, the daughter of 72-year-old Haim Perry, taken hostage by
the Iranian puppets. Indeed, Noam represents all families of
the Kibbutz Nif Ozsmall [sic; Nir Oz] and--by the Gaza border,
where 73 civilians were abducted and kidnapped, and so please
stand. Thank you. Also, so brave Dona Raich Levi [ph],
spokesman for the hostages of missing families. Both of you
stand, and we just appreciate your courage, and we recognize
you. [Applause.]
To me, it is just incredible. Here we are in the 21st
century. We are talking about an invasion by Putin, the
massacring of people that I saw, we saw in Bucha, where they
were buried in shallow graves. Now, October the 7, which I was
really grateful to be at the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in
Copenhagen, again, to show the unity around the world. That is
that at Copenhagen, the prime minister of Denmark recognized
and identified that October 7, is the combination of 9/11 and
Pearl Harbor. This is a recognition that needs to be understood
by people worldwide of the conflict, of the invasion of
dictators against democracies. Do thank you for being here
today.
Our second panel is so welcome and extraordinary. We have
Irwin Cotler, who is the chair of the Wallenberg Centre for
Human Rights, former minister of justice and attorney general
of Canada. Last week's hearing featured a witness who had
literally written the book about the puppet Hamas--puppets of
Iran. In addition to his esteemed writings representing
political leaders, like Israel's Natan Sharansky and Nelson
Mandela, Professor Cotler is a symbol--of, a subject on the new
documentary film on his decades-long work for freedom. We are
so grateful for you to be here, Doctor. Thank you. [Applause.]
Additionally, we have--and we got so many superstars here,
this is great, so thank you. Hey, because--hey, the world is
substantially, not all, united. With this in mind, we have
Jared Genser and also Evgenia Kara-Murza. We are so grateful.
Mr. Genser is an international human rights attorney and
managing director of Perseus Strategies. Mr. Genser literally
wrote many of the key provisions of a major American law
seeking to free the wrongfully detained, called the Levinson
Act. This--he has directed, and represented, and freed many
hostages and political prisoners around the world.
Ms. Kara-Murza is a symbol of freedom and democracy, for
you and your husband, Vladimir. We appreciate you, the advocacy
director for the Free Russia Foundation. You need no
introduction to the members of this Commission, but we want the
world to know that we appreciate you for the inspiring
leadership for your husband, and for others who have been
imprisoned globally. We look forward to working with you and
our allies to continue to raise these issues until your
husband, Vladimir, is freed from Putin's prison, and also all
political prisoners are freed.
I want to thank the witnesses for their time, and we will
begin each with 5 minutes. Then we will begin 5-minute
questioning by members of the panel, beginning with our very
honorable Co-chair Steve Cohen. We begin with Dr. Cotler.
TESTIMONY OF IRWIN COTLER, CHAIR OF THE RAOUL WALLENBERG CENTRE
FOR HUMAN RIGHTS, FORMER MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND ATTORNEY
GENERAL OF CANADA
Dr. Cotler: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am delighted to be
here and to join my colleague, Jared Genser and Evgenia Kara-
Murza, in the common cause which brings us together, the
pursuit of justice on behalf of political prisoners and
hostages as well as accountability for the major human rights
violations and mass atrocities committed both in Russia's
criminal aggression against Ukraine and Hamas' criminal
aggression against Israeli civilians. The last time I appeared
before this body, I was actually here together with Vladimir
Kara-Murza, at the time. As we meet today, he is languishing in
the Soviet gulag.
His crime? Telling the truth, both about Russia's domestic
repression and its external aggression. His trial? Kafkaesque,
presided over by a judge who was himself the target of
Magnitsky sanctions. The verdict? Twenty-five years in prison,
high treason. I might add, an implementation of the Stalinist
dictum: Give us the person and we will find the crime. Indeed,
we meet at a historical inflection moment today, where we are
experiencing--witnessing not only a resurgent, global
authoritarianism, but the metastasizing of the axis of evil, of
mass atrocities, of political prisoners as a looking glass on
the one hand and the hostages as a looking glass on the other.
Where these acts of criminal aggression have been attended
--and I do not use these words lightly--by war crimes, crimes
against humanity, and even mass atrocities constitutive of acts
of genocide. At times such as these, we have to ask ourselves:
What is it that we can, what is it that we must do? For reasons
of time, I am going to just enumerate a number of actions that
can be taken with respect to each of the criminal aggressions.
Let me begin in the matter of Russia's criminal aggression
against Ukraine, using Vladimir Kara-Murza as a case study.
Might I add parenthetically, I am also here as a special envoy
on behalf of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Community of
Democracies in Vladimir Kara-Murza's case and cause.
No. 1, we need to have bipartisan, nonpartisan,
parliamentary coalitions on behalf of political prisoners like
Vladimir Kara-Murza. In Canada, this nonpartisan coalition
resulted in him recently being named Canada's seventh honorary
citizen. We have established an ongoing all-party parliamentary
coalition in that regard, and we are seeking to have that in
each of the Community of Democracies. Second, and reference has
been made to this, he should be declared an arbitrarily
detained person under the American legislation. Number third,
we need to support the arrest warrants before the ICC in this
regard. No. 4 establish an independent international criminal
tribunal for the crime of aggression in Ukraine, because there
is no other jurisdiction or authority that can hold Putin, the
military, and political leadership, accountable.
No. 5, call upon State parties to the Genocide Convention
to prevent, protect against, and punish all those involved in a
breach of the Genocide Convention. That occurs both, we
suspect, to Russia's criminal aggression against Ukraine and
Hamas's criminal aggression--aided in this axis of evil by
Iran. No. 6, make representations to the U.N. special
procedures, like the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention. No.
7, mobilize the parties. We have more now than 72 State parties
to the international Declaration on Arbitrary Detention in
State-to-State relations. The four foreign ministers, which
included foreign minister of Canada and United States,
Secretary of State Blinken, recently convened together to
implement that declaration. We need to mobilize it at this
point on behalf of political prisoners.
No. 8, to enhance the imposition of Magnitsky sanctions,
where those Magnitsky sanctions must also be applied. No. 9,
call for the immediate release of Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is
suffering from a polyneuropathy disease which, under Russian
law, mandates that he be released from prison. Call upon the
Russians to abide by their own legal responsibilities
domestically and internationally, and finally, use all the OSCE
mechanisms for that purpose.
Let me close by saying that we meet at another historical
inflection moment in the shadow of the worst day in Jewish
history since the holocaust, of horrors too terrible to be
believed but not too terrible to have happened. Where Hamas is
not just a prohibited terrorist organization under American law
and Canadian law, it is a genocidal antisemitic terrorist
government. Not because I say so, but because they say so,
where they have affirmed their own charter in 1988 founding
charter again and again, calling for the destruction of Israel
and the killing of all Jews wherever they may be. Where the
hostages are a looking glass into those mass atrocities, into
those standing violations of the most foundational norms of
international human rights, humanitarian and criminal law, as
we meet.
I close by saying that at times such as these--[inaudible].
Whoever remains indifferent indicts himself or herself. The
U.S. can take the lead in organizing a multilateral coalition
for the immediate and unconditional release of the hostages. To
invoke the ICC and have arrest warrants here for that purpose.
To hold accountable enablers like Qatar and Turkey, who have
been giving base and sanctuary for Hamas leaders.
In a word, as the families of the hostages have called upon
us to do--and you have made reference to Noam who is here, and
we have been meeting with her these last few days--they have
asked us to be their voice. It is our responsibility, the
Community of Democracies, each of us individually and
collectively, to speak on behalf of those who cannot be heard,
to bear witness on behalf of those who cannot testify, to act
on behalf of those who have put their lives on the line and
who, as we meet, we have the elderly, the disabled, the six
toddlers, et cetera, all hostages. We have to make this a
priority in our domestic and foreign policy as a matter of
principle and policy. Thank you.
Chairman Wilson: Indeed, Attorney General Cotler, thank you
for your passion. Thank you for your success. It is so
refreshing to see the United States and Canada, beloved
neighbors--you said community. We are neighbors, and so it is
so close, a family. Together as we face dictators around the
world.
With that, Mr. Genser, please.
TESTIMONY OF JARED GENSER, INTERNATIONAL HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER,
MANAGING DIRECTOR OF PERSUES STRATEGIES
Mr. Genser: Chairman Wilson, Co-Chairman Cohen, and
distinguished members of the Helsinki Commission, my name is
Jared Genser. I am an international human rights lawyer based
in Washington, best known over my two-decade career in working
to free political prisoners around the world. A subset of those
have been wrongly detained Americans in countries including
Burma, Cambodia, China, Cuba, Iran, and Nicaragua.
With limited time today I am going to focus on two aspects
of my testimony. You have a more complete version of it, I
believe, in front of you. I want to talk about two topics. One
is the ending of state-sponsored hostage taking, and the second
relates to amendments that I believe need to be made to the
Levinson Act, which is the framework for addressing these
issues under U.S. law. I haave represented numerous Americans
who have been grabbed by authoritarian regimes over my career.
The most important thing that I have learned from these cases
is that once an American has been grabbed, it is too late. Why?
Because the U.S. never imposes any serious consequences for
their detention, and it can take months to years for the U.S.
to do what is necessary to bring them home.
The only hope for ending this deplorable practice is to
disrupt the value proposition for state-sponsored hostage
taking and to create draconian consequences for states that
engage in it. In July 2022, I published an op-ed in The Wall
Street Journal, which I would like to be included in the
record, proposing President Biden announce the development of a
new multilateral agreement that would include several key
elements. First, it should be grounded in the principle of
collective defense, establishing that a hostage taken from one
signatory amounts to a hostage taken from all. In other words,
the proverbial individual stick will break easily, but a bundle
of sticks will not. Second, it should identify specific actions
that each signatory can take individually and collectively when
a national of any signatory is taken.
In a model agreement that I have drafted and have had the
opportunity to discuss both with Secretary Blinken and National
Security Adviser Sullivan, I have listed 11 actions states my
take if one hostage is taken by a government, such as public
condemnations, cancellation of official visits, and the
imposition of targeted sanctions on perpetrators. I have
identified another 15 action states might take if a government
engages in a pattern of hostage taking, such as opposing
perpetrating states candidates for positions in multilateral
institutions, restricting government loans, and suspending and
blocking economic assistance, development assistance, or
security assistance. While I would welcome any new ideas to
solve this problem, it has been forty-five years since the U.S.
embassy was taken over in Tehran in 1979. To me, the only hope
that we have for deterring this practice is disrupting the
value proposition at its source because, as I said, once an
American is taken, it is too late.
Let me just use the balance of my time to talk about the
Levinson Act, which, as you know, was adopted in 2020 and
signed into law. It specifically says that secretary of State,
quote, ``shall review the cases of U.S. nationals detained
abroad,'' to determine if there is, quote, ``credible
information'' that they are, quote, ``unlawfully or wrongfully
detained,'' based on 11 specific criteria. I am pleased to have
made a contribution to drafting a number of those criteria
myself that were passed in other forms several times before
making it into the Levinson Act. If a conclusion is reached
that a person is unlawfully or wrongfully detained, based on a
totality of the circumstances, the case is supposed to
immediately be then transferred from consular affairs to the
office of the special Presidential envoy on hostage affairs.
The adoption of the Levinson Act gave great hope to lawyers
like myself, who had struggled to help--get help for wrongly
detained Americans. There are a number of improvements that can
be made. Specifically, improvements in the process. Right now,
the determination process is facilitated by the Bureau of
Consular Affairs, and it is opaque, inaccessible by families,
and of an undetermined length. In my view, the law should be
amended to require that in all such cases where family asks to
engage on a potential designation, that there should be
somebody assigned by the State Department to be a liaison with
them and their advocates and to engage in ongoing information
sharing and discussions.
I also believe the law should require an initial
determination to be made within 60 days of a U.S. national's
detention, and that results of reviews have to be provided in
writing. I also believe that a family, at its request, should
be able to request a fresh review every 6 months from when the
last letter might have been issued that a person was not so
designated. I also believe we need to limit the determination
to the application of identified criteria. Right now, there are
11 criteria there are there which are listed, in essence, as
optional to be applied. I would want those criteria to be
limited to that list.
The reason is because I have had a lot of experience with
various cases, the most high-profile one being that of a
Cambodian American, Theary Seng, who has a 6-year prison
sentence in in Cambodia for literally posting to Facebook posts
critical of the prime minister of the country. Here, we have as
straightforward a case as you can imagine. The U.N. has said
she is illegally detained. The American Bar Association,
including Foundation for Justice, gave her case a rating of an
F. Secretary Blinken and President Biden both went to Cambodia
on separate occasions and actually called for her release
directly to the prime minister of the country. Yet, the current
position of the U.S. Government is simultaneously that her
detention is politically motivated and unjust, and yet not
wrongful or unlawful. If you can square that circle, I would be
very impressed.
Let me just conclude by just noting very quickly that I
also believe the Levinson Act has to be amended to make sure
there is no discrimination against Americans who have second or
third nationalities. Right now, that is not as clear as it
needs to be. I also think the definition of a hostage needs to
be clarified, as I provide in my written testimony as well. Let
me just conclude by saying that while I think the U.S. does a
better job than any country in the world on these issues,
helping our nationals abroad, there is a lot more that we can
do. Thank you very much.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Mr. Genser. We do
thank you for your past success on legislative interpretation,
and whatever amendments we need to proceed. again, it will be
bipartisan that we look forward to working with you.
Indeed, we are so fortunate our final witness is a world-
respected hero of a world-respected and beloved individual who
stood up for freedom for the people of Russia, Evgenia Kara-
Murz. [Applause.]
TESTIMONY OF EVGENIA KARA-MURZA, ADVOCACY DIRECTOR AT THE FREE
RUSSIA FOUNDATION, WIFE OF VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA
Ms. Kara-Murza: Mr. Chair, Mr. Co-chair, distinguished
members of the Helsinki Commission, I thank you for this
opportunity to be able to address you today. A little over 2
weeks ago, the world saw the Russian Army commit to yet another
war crime in Ukraine, killing over 50 civilians, including an
8-year-old child, in one single airstrike. With Israel under
horrific attack by Hamas and the entire ethnic Armenian
population of Nagorno-Karabakh fleeing to neighboring Armenia
after Azerbaijan assumed control of the enclave, we see how
fast aggression and violence in its many shapes and forms is
spreading in all directions.
In the report released in Vienna on September the 22 of
last year, following the invocation of the Moscow mechanism by
38 OSCE participating states to assess the situation with human
rights in Russia, OSCE Rapporteur Professor Nussberger came to
the conclusion that, and I quote, ``repression on the inside
and the war on the outside are connected to each other as if in
a communicating tube,'' end of quote. Today, according to the
very conservative numbers by Memorial, co-laureate of the 2022
Nobel Peace Prize, the list of political prisoners in the
Russian Federation counts over 600 people. This year marks the
20 anniversary of the imprisonment of Alexey Pichugin, the last
hostage of the Yukos case, held behind bars in violation of two
decisions by the European Court of Human Rights.
OVD-Info, an independent media project on political
persecution in Russia, was able to establish that among around
20,000 unlawfully detained since February 2022, there were at
least 565 minors. Criminal proceedings were opened against at
least nine of them before they reached the age of 18, including
against 16-year-old Nikita Uvarov, who was sentenced to 5 years
in prison for planning to blow up a virtual FSB building in the
computer game Minecraft. With a goal to eradicate dissent and
scare people into silence, the regime has brought back the
entire arsenal of Soviet-style repressive instruments,
including punitive psychiatry, torture, extreme violence,
sexual violence, and de facto deprivation of parental rights.
As the first-ever U.N. special rapporteur on human rights
in the Russian Federation Marina Katzarova concluded in a
recent report, the situation in Russia has signaled, and I
quote, ``an effective closure of the civic space.'' It is
important to realize that with all independent media banned and
blocked, civil society institutions destroyed, and
international observers and rapporteurs consistently denied
entry to the country, we have only a vague idea of the scale of
repression in the country. In this context, it is hard to
overestimate the importance of the work and supporting such
work, including financing of lawyers, civil society groups, and
independent journalists who are doing their best to monitor the
situation and report countless human rights abuses against all
odds.
One important project I have to mention in this regard is
Poshepallon [ph], launched by Free Russia Foundation in June
2022. That is specifically dedicated to the search of Ukrainian
war prisoners and Ukrainian civilian hostages held in Russian
prisons. Based on signed cooperation memorandums, our project
works closely with the Ukrainian coordination headquarters for
war prisoners affairs and the Ukrainian ombudsman for civilian
hostages. Since its launch in June 2022, the project has
received thousands of requests submitted by family members of
Ukrainian war prisoners and Ukrainian civilian hostages. Thanks
to a network of dedicated and brave Russian lawyers working on
the ground, the project was able to locate hundreds of these
people.
Lawyers are often political prisoners' only connection to
the world outside. With visits and phone calls by family
members often denied. They are the only ones who can make sure
the prisoner is still alive and at least the bare minimum of
his or her needs is met. Yesterday, when Professor Cotler was
being awarded by the Lantos Foundation for his truly awe-
inspiring, lifelong work, Congressman McGovern spoke about the
importance of such work. Defending human rights defenders he
called it, and that is the reason we are seeing a new wave of
repression against lawyers in Russia.
My husband, Vladimir Kara-Murza, joined the Memorial list
of political prisoners in April 2022. I believe he is still
alive today because of the international intention, combined
with his lawyer's commitment to be there for him despite all
odds. Designated as a foreign agent by the Russian State,
Vladimir was sentenced to 25 years of strict regime for
disseminating so-called knowingly false information about the
Russian army, working with a so-called undesirable organization
and, to top it off, for betraying his country in five speeches
that he made on different international platforms, including
here at the U.S. Congress, raising awareness about political
repression in Russia and condemning the criminal war against
Ukraine.
Since September the 21st of this year, my husband has been
held in a punishment cell of a maximum security prison colony
in Siberia, about 2,000 miles away from Moscow. A man who has
survived two assassination attacks by FSB operatives, and is
suffering from a serious medical condition because of that, is
being held in complete isolation in a cell that measures 10
feet by five feet, with a bed that is affixed to the wall from
6 a.m. to 10 p.m. every day. After Vladimir's verdict in April
of this year, over 80 U.S. senators and U.S. representatives
signed a letter addressed to State Secretary Blinken asking him
to designate Vladimir as wrongfully detained. A month ago,
following a hearing held at the Helsinki Commission,
Congressman Wilson and Cohen introduced a bill requiring the
secretary of State to determine whether my husband has been
wrongfully detained.
Vladimir's and my daughter, Sonya, spoke at that hearing
about her father, and sent a heartfelt appeal to the U.S.
Government to bring her dad back. Yet, despite all of this, in
over 18 months since my husband's arrest, the U.S. Government
has not been able to determine whether he's been wrongfully
detained or not. Since Vladimir fits the criteria established
by the Levinson Act, there can only be--there can only be two
explanation for the inaction. Either the system does not work
properly and needs to be fine-tuned, or the U.S. Government
truly believes that my husband--a decades long human rights
fighter, laureate of the 2022 Vaclav Havel Human Rights, and a
fierce campaigner for the Magnitsky sanctions--has indeed been
detained and sentenced to 25 years in strict regime for a good
reason.
I choose to be an optimist because, as Abraham Lincoln
said, I do not see the point in being anything else. I choose
to believe that it is a flaw in the system that can be fixed.
In that regard, in over 18 months of campaigning to raise
awareness about the plight of political prisoners, I have come
to realize that democratic countries are generally not very
well equipped to deal with the ever-rising problem of political
prisoners and hostage taking. Dictators work together, learning
from each other and sharing well-oiled repressive tools. Should
not democratic countries also work together to counter such
malign practices? In the words of Eleanor Roosevelt, when will
our consciences grow so tender that we will act to prevent
human misery rather than avenge it?
I believe that the establishment of offices of political
prisoners and hostage affairs in other democracies would not
only be a more responsible, consistent, and adequate way to
address the issue, but could help these countries bring their
efforts together to not only deal with existing cases but to
create and fine tune a set of instruments to prevent and
counter such practices in the future. Democracies should learn
to be more proactive instead of only doing damage control,
especially when human lives hang in the balance. As we are
approaching the international day of political prisoners on
October the 30, the day when several prisoners of conscience
including my husband will be holding a hunger strike in Russian
prisons, I call on the U.S. Government to fight harder for the
release of those who risked their lives to defend the
principles this great country is built on. Thank you very much.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Ms. Kara-Murza. You
and your husband indeed are an inspiration to persons such as
myself, who have a deep affection for the people of Russia.
With visits that I have had from Chelyabinsk, to Novosibirsk,
to Moscow, to St. Petersburg, I just was so impressed by the
beautiful culture, the art, literature, architecture. What a
bright future Russia could have. Thank you for standing up for
a free Russia.
With that, we now proceed to Congressman Cohen. Each person
will have a very strict 5-minute participation, because I want
to make sure that Congresswoman Manning gets to get 5 minutes.
Thank you very much.
Co-chair Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Kara-Murza, you have--and the panel--have done a
marvelous job of bringing up issues which need to be addressed
by America and other democracies. Thank each of you for being
here and for making your remarks and your suggestions. When we
last were together, the Commission made clear that we wanted to
see Vladimir designated as wrongfully detained. Have you had
any contact with the State Department since that hearing?
Ms. Kara-Murza: No, unfortunately, I have not had.
Co-chair Cohen: Have you attempted to?
Ms. Kara-Murza: I am always open to contact. I am always
open to anything they might be willing to share with me, as to
where their efforts go. Nothing has--no progress has been made,
as far as I know.
Co-chair Cohen: It is difficult for us to get them to
respond too. Sometimes I think they are a foreign nation,
because the efforts to have them respond have been nil. It is
very frustrating. I know Mr. Blinken, Secretary Blinken, has
the right values, but he does not act. Without action, values
are limited.
Mr. Genser, you have talked about changes to the Levinson
Act. I know there are many that are there that you suggest.
What do you think would be an effective way to get the State
Department to respond, to get Levinson Act to be such that it
is more effective?
Mr. Genser: Yes, I mean, I think you only learn when the
legislation is actually being implemented what the gaps are
going to be between the aspiration and the reality. I think
that we have seen a lot of--a lot of challenges with Levinson
Act and its implementation. You know, there are other cases we
have--of course, I have mentioned Theary Seng in Cambodia and
Vladimir's cases. It is just as emblematic as Theary's case as
well. I also know cases of Americans who have been, for
example, the subject of decisions of the U.N. calling them held
illegally in Saudi Arabia who have not been designated. Another
case, as well in the UAE, and so, you know, we need to close
those gaps.
I think we need some forcing mechanisms here in terms of
amendments to the Levinson Act. I think requiring a person to
be actually assigned to the job of working with a family and
their advocates is really, really important. In the year and a
half I have been working on Theary Seng's case, so similar
timeframe as Vladimir's, literally I cannot find a human being
at the State Department willing to talk to me about why they
came up with the determination that they did. You know, any
time I try to reach out to various parts of the State
Department, I am always sent back to the consular official in
Phnom Penh, who has no ability to have any conversation about
the substance of the Levinson Act determination process.
Co-chair Cohen: Thank you for your work. I appreciate it.
Professor, you are a hero. Somebody I have great admiration
for. Thank you for your lifetime's work. I hope to fashion
myself as best I can in the same model that you have. There are
times--Evgenia said--you know, Lincoln said there is no other
alternative than to be an optimist. Elie Wiesel said, you know,
you cannot have--despair cannot be the answer; it must be hope.
I get that.
With Putin, what can be done to make Putin respond and act
like a reasonable human being? You know, you mentioned that
neuropathy is Russian law, you are supposed to be--well, Putin
does not care about Russian law. Putin is the law. What can we
realistically do with Putin to try to get him to release
prisoners or to--
Dr. Cotler: Well, I think we have to, in fact, pursue, as I
say, not only justice for victims, but accountability. In this
case, the importance of having an independent international
tribunal for the crime of aggression, leadership crimes, as the
Nuremberg Tribunal called it. Where the military and political
leadership in Putin's Russia can therefore be held accountable,
because the ICC and other bodies do not have that jurisdiction.
I might add, parenthetically, because reference was made and we
have been talking about declaring him an arbitrarily detained
personal, Vladimir--under the Levinson Act. If a country like
Canada, which as has been mentioned, is not only part--a
partner in the Community of Democracies with U.S., not only a
neighbor, but we are like family--if we could get both houses
of the Canadian Parliament, as we did, both the House of
Commons and the Senate, to unanimously--unanimously--confer
upon Vladimir Kara-Murza honorary citizenship, the least you
would think that our neighbor in the U.S. can do is have him
declared an arbitrarily detained person.
Sometimes it is good for the U.S. to follow Canada's
example, as Canada has often followed the U.S. example. That
kind of joint leadership and the leadership of the Community of
Democracies, where we should not have a situation, like we
recently witnessed, where somebody like Putin, who is under an
international arrest warrant, is welcomed by Xi Jinping in
China, who has an obligation to, in fact, enforce that arrest
warrant. In fact, welcomes Putin. What we need is to combat
this corrosive axis of evil by an intensified partnership
amongst the Community of Democracies.
Co-chair Cohen: Thank you, sir. My 5 minutes are up. I
think we need to remember another Canadian, Leonard Cohen, who
wrote about the crack in the wall where the light gets in. We
got to find that crack. I yield back.
Dr. Cotler: I might add, parenthetically, Leonard Cohen was
a close friend and a lifelong colleague of mine.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Steve Cohen, and it
is not a surprise that there are a number of Cohens of
distinction. [Laughter.]
So--and we now proceed to Congressman Mike Lawler of New
York.
STATEMENT OF MIKE LAWLER, U.S. HOUSE, FROM NEW YORK
Representative Lawler: Thank you, Chairman.
Certainly, what we have witnessed in the last few years is
an unholy alliance between Russia, Iran, China, and North
Korea. They have sought to destabilize the free world. They
have sought to undermine the United States and our allies. In
doing so, especially with Vladimir Putin and the Iranian-backed
Hamas terrorist attacks in Israel, have committed serious war
crimes and atrocities that cannot go on punished. What tools
are there at the international level to hold Hamas accountable,
to hold Iran accountable, to hold Vladimir Putin and Russia
accountable? What would you like to see done? Mr. Cotler.
Dr. Cotler: Well, you mentioned at this point about an
unholy alliance. And there is this metastasizing axis of evil.
I have sought to share with you some of the interrelationships
here, but international human rights and humanitarian law, both
in the cases of Russia's criminal aggression in Ukraine and
Hamas' criminal aggression against Israeli civilians, these are
the supreme crimes in international human rights and criminal
law. The taking of hostages is a looking glass. Therefore, we
need the multilateral coalition to, in fact, implement
international human rights and humanitarian law and to call for
the unconditional and immediate release of the hostages at the
same time as we seek to secure the release of political
prisoners. To use all the international instruments in that
regard.
The ICC, which should be used now with regard to Hamas in
the same way that it was used with regard to arrest warrants
regarding Putin and the like. The independent international
tribunal, I said, because we will not be able to otherwise
sanction the crimes of aggression, the leadership crimes. To
get the ICRC, the International Committee of the Red Cross, who
have not been implementing their mandate. If you speak to the
families of the hostages, they will tell you they have gotten
no answers from the ICRC, notwithstanding Hamas' brutal
abduction, kidnapping, and forced disappearances of the
hostages.
I think what is important here is multilateral coalitions
to not only affirm, but to implement the foundational norms of
international human rights, humanitarian and criminal law,
along the initiatives that I mentioned--ICC, international
independent tribunal, ICJ initiatives, universal jurisdiction
approaches, and the like, the whole arsenal of international
legal accountability mechanisms.
Representative Lawler: While I agree with you, part of the
challenge here is that the United Nations, for instance, has
historically shown a bias against Israel. Just yesterday, the
secretary-general said that Hamas' terrorist attack did not
happen in a vacuum, alleging that it is the Israeli people's
fault for getting attacked and massacred by the Hamas
terrorists. It is disgusting. He should resign in disgrace. You
have a situation, the worst massacre of Jews since the
Holocaust.
We have Members of Congress--Members of Congress who repeat
lies that Israel bombed a hospital, repeating it even yesterday
despite all evidence to the contrary. We are dealing with a
situation where reality is at odds with the fiction that has
been promulgated, the antisemitism that has been promulgated,
by leaders throughout the globe. While I agree with you, these
international agencies need to band together with the United
States, with our allies, to hold these folks accountable, it is
difficult to do that when you have the secretary-general the
United Nations blaming Israel for suffering a terrorist attack
and the worst massacre of Jews since the Holocaust.
Dr. Cotler: Well, Congressman, you touched on another
important point, that we are witnessing not only a resurgent
global authoritarianism, that I described, but a resurgent and
metastasizing global antisemitism. The tipping point for which
was the World Conference Against Racism in Durban in 2001,
which turned into a world conference of racism and hate against
Israel and the Jewish people. That became the tipping point for
the new antisemitism. That new antisemitism includes,
regrettably, the laundering--the laundering of antisemitism
under the very protective cover of the United Nations, under
the authority of international law, under the culture of human
rights, under the very struggle against racism itself. We have
seen manifestations of this, not only in the United Nations,
but in our own domestic communities.
Part of our compelling responsibilities here are to combat
this resurgent global antisemitism. There have been a dramatic
rise in hate crimes targeting Jews since Hamas' criminal
aggression against it. You would have thought it would have
been the other way around, and so we have a moral inversion
here. Whereas before Hamas invaded Israel, we had the highest
rates of antisemitism since audits began 50 years ago. Yet,
after this invasion, we have had a dramatic increase, not only
in antisemitic incidences, but antisemitic hate crimes
targeting Jews. We have to bear this in mind.
Representative Lawler: Unfortunately, we have seen this
song before. Israel, as it defends itself, will be under severe
international pressure. Again, we have members in Congress
demanding cease-fires, but no accountability for the terrorists
that beheaded babies, burned babies, murdered Holocaust
survivors. They are not worried about the accountability there.
It is pathetic.
I yield back.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Mike Lawler, and
thank you for referencing the outrageous situation at the
United Nations. It is inconceivable.
We now proceed--hey, we have been joined by Senator Richard
Blumenthal of Connecticut and also Congressman Marc Veasey of
Texas. Many Members of Congress coming indicates how important
each of you are as the message gets out of how we need to
address political prisoners. We now proceed to Congresswoman
Manning.
STATEMENT OF KATHY MANNING, U.S HOUSE, FROM NORTH CAROLINA
Representative Manning: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you
know, on foreign affairs you and I speak with one voice from
different sides of the aisle and with different accents. Since
October 7, I have been meeting, and talking with, and receiving
messages from the families of the more than 200 people that
Hamas abducted in the most gruesome and savage attack on the
Jewish people since the Holocaust. The families are frustrated.
They are angry. Yet, they are hopeful that if we in Congress
weigh in and use the power of the U.S. Congress, we can somehow
secure the release of all the hostages. The captives are not
just Israeli, they are not just Americans, they are more than
40 different nationalities.
Yesterday, one of the hostage families made a very
compelling statement when it came to seeking the release of the
hostages. They said, do not propose a selection process like
they did during the Holocaust, where some were selected to be
saved and others were left to be murdered. I am here because I
am seeking answers. What can we in Congress be doing to secure
the release of all the hostages in Gaza? While I appreciate the
multiple steps that you laid out for what we should be doing in
the long term, the question that I want to ask is: What can we
in Congress be doing today to make a difference to secure the
release of the hostages? Mr. Genser, Dr. Cotler, I pose that
question to either of you.
Mr. Genser: Well, obviously, this is a very complicated and
challenging moment. The injustice, obviously, is palpable as it
relates to the women, the children, even the babies grabbed by
Hamas and taken into Gaza. There are no, we all know, quick or
easy answers. You know, I think that negotiating their release
and trying to get that done as quickly as possible has to be a
top priority. I think that once Israel were to invade Gaza, it
will become that much harder. I think that, you know, in the
near term, we--you know, we do need to focus on those that are
most in need of help or support. While I fully appreciate and
understand your approach, Madam Congresswoman, in terms of
trying to get them all out simultaneously without going through
a selection process, it is historically not been the case that
is the way that things have been done.
Ultimately, there is going to be no satisfying answers
here. At the end of the day, there is no easy military
solution. I am sure that they are spread throughout Gaza. The
kind of demands that Hamas is going to make for the release of
the hostages are going to be extraordinary. I wish I had some
quick or easy answers. I think from Congress, the most
important thing to do is to be meeting with the families of the
hostages, to be telling their stories, to put out photos of
what happened. I think that we also need to be telling the
story of what Hamas actually did, and putting out these
horrific photos with, obviously, family's permission of what
they were doing as well.
We are living in this inverse morality world, as Professor
Cotler said, where somehow up is down and left is right. We
need the moral clarity to be able to have a discussion about
what Hamas did without equivocation, without justification,
without context. As a separate conversation, we can talk about
what Israel is doing in Gaza in response to its right to self-
defense, and make sure that they are doing things consistent
with international law.
Representative Manning: Thank you. I want to turn to Dr.
Cotler. I want to ask you a question, because there have been
accusations of genocide being hurled at Israel as it goes after
the Hamas terrorists, who so savagely attacked Israeli
civilians. Can you talk to us about what the definition of
genocide is and address this accusation?
Dr. Cotler: Well, you know, the Genocide Convention sets
forth five mass atrocities that would constitute acts of
genocide. It includes as well the targeting of a people in
whole or in part, you know, for their destruction. It includes,
you know, serious acts of criminal murder, and the like. What I
want to say with regard to these five acts of genocide is when
one looks at it, it is Hamas that is perpetrating these acts of
genocide. When you have the accusations against Israel, it is
what is known as the false accusation in the mirror. Namely, to
accuse the victim of the very the crimes that the perpetrator
are committing.
When you mentioned that October 7 was the worst day in
Jewish history since the Holocaust, if I may, just on a
personal level, I was in Jerusalem on that October 7. I was
there with my family to celebrate my son's marriage. That
Saturday was supposed to be a particularly festive Jewish
sabbath, because it was taking place on the last day of the
holiday of Sukkot, which is one of the most festive Jewish
holidays in the Jewish tradition where we celebrate not only
Jewish indigeneity but our common responsibilities, our common
humanity. It was also the day of Simchat Torah, when we
complete the reading of the Five Books of Moses and start it
again. In other words, a date--a celebratory day.
That day turned into one of horrors too terrible to be
believed, but not too terrible to have happened. It is etched
in my mind, in my being forever. That is why, when we speak now
about the question of hostages, you mentioned 40 different
nationalities. That is why we need a multilateral coalition
that can speak collectively on behalf of these community of
hostages from 40 different countries. That is why we need to
adopt an action implementation plan as a matter of urgency that
this multilateral coalition can pursue. That is why we need to
ensure that the foundational norms of international human
rights and humanitarian law, and the Genocide Convention which
requires all State parties to the Genocide Convention, to
prevent, to protect against, and to punish acts of genocide.
That means that Hamas, that is engaged as we speak in
ongoing and standing incitement to genocide--which is itself, a
stand-alone breach of the Genocide Convention even if mass
atrocities do not follow. That from 1988 on, they have been
engaged in standing breaches of the Genocide Convention without
accountability. We have to now collectively ensure that there
is accountability, that there is at this point the prevention,
the protection against, and the punishment of those engaged in
acts of genocide. Combat the false inversions, where you go
ahead and accuse the victim of the various--as I said, the
various genocidal acts that the perpetrator--that Hamas is
engaged in, aided and abetted, and we should not forget this,
by Khamenei's Iran, which has armed, trained, financed,
supported, and incentivize Hamas, which is effectively a proxy,
along with Hezbollah, terrorist proxies of Iran. One should not
forget this axis of evil.
Representative Manning: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield
back.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman Kathy
Manning. Indeed, we are soulmates and look forward to working
continually in a bipartisan manner.
We were so fortunate to have Senator Richard Blumenthal
from Connecticut. It is indeed an honor to have somebody from
the House of Lords come visit us. [Laughter.]
STATEMENT OF RICHARD BLUMENTAL, U.S. SENATE, FROM CONNECTICUT
Senator Blumenthal: It is a great line, do you think?
Although Canada does not have a House of Lords, does it?
Dr. Cotler: It has a Senate.
Senator Blumenthal: Right. Let me ask you both, because you
have spoken so eloquently on the need for moral clarity from
the administration and from Congress and we are here talking
about both Ukraine and Israel together, where both are victims
of hostage taking, is it not important for the Congress to
speak not only in a bipartisan way but also in a unified way on
both Ukraine and Israel? To combine the aid that we want to
give to both in a single package, so that neither is left
behind? Mr. Genser, maybe you can speak to that issue.
Mr. Genser: Well, look, I think these are extraordinary
times, undoubtedly. I think it is important for people to speak
with moral clarity on these questions. As an international
human rights lawyer, one conducts analyses of particular sets
of facts and circumstances individually and not collectively.
You know that, obviously, as a former attorney general of the
State of Connecticut. You know, you do not look at a set of
crimes that have been committed, except by looking at
individual perpetrators and doing that analysis on an
individual case, and indictments are issued on individual
cases.
Yet, what we see in the international community and we see
sometimes in the Congress are false moral equivalencies being
drawn or justifications being made for--you know, for two very,
very different sets of topics as it relates to intent. I think
the biggest thing that I would point out on Israel versus Hamas
is what is the intent of each of the parties. The intent,
obviously, if Hamas is to commit genocide, to kill every Jew in
the world, and to wipe Israel off the map. The intent of Israel
is to exercise its right of self-defense under the U.N.
Charter, which is a legal and moral response. It needs to do so
in accordance with the laws of war.
I do think, coming to your narrower question, doing this, I
think, jointly is very, very important, especially given the
dissenting voices that we also see in the Congress on Ukraine,
which to me are kind of shocking and, you know, horrific. I
think what Putin is doing in Ukraine, how he is doing it, with
the commission of mass war crimes, is, in fact, as Professor
Cotler said, genocidal. The abduction of children across
international borders--19,500, by Ukraine's count, as we heard
from our prior witness--shocks the conscience. I think that we
do need to deal with these issues together because I think that
they are directly related, despite being, obviously, in
different parts of the world.
Senator Blumenthal: I think those points are very, very
well taken. Let me ask you, Ms. Kara-Murza, how regularly do
you hear from the State Department about your husband? Have you
been provided any explanation or insight as to why he has not
been designated as wrongfully detained?
Ms. Kara-Murza: Unfortunately, I have not heard from the
State Department in a while. As to the explanation, I am always
told that the State Department is doing its best and that
Vladimir is put in their public program on unjustly detained
that brings attention to specific cases of politically--of
people persecuted for political reasons. As to why the
determination has not happened, that I have not received a
clear response to, unfortunately.
Senator Blumenthal: Thank you. Thank you for being here
today, again, before our Commission. It really means a lot that
you are speaking here on behalf of your husband and on behalf
of other hostages that have been taken by Putin, including,
although we do not necessarily regard them as hostages, the
thousands of children that Putin has kidnapped and now are in
either Russia or Belarus, in effect, being brainwashed. I do
not think that term is too strong for what is happening. I want
to thank you, Mr. Chairman, for, again, conducting this hearing
on this very, very important topic. Thank you all for being
here, and Mr. Chairman, thanks for your leadership.
Chairman Wilson: Hear, hear. Thank you very much, Senator.
Indeed, as an indication of how important our witnesses are,
the issues are, thank you so much, Senator, for being here.
We now proceed to Congressman Marc Veasey of Texas.
STATEMENT OF MARC VEASEY, U.S. HOUSE, FROM TEXAS
Representative Veasey: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
Lord Blumenthal, thank you for joining us today. [Laughter.]
I tell you, one of the things that has really bothered me a
lot when it comes to this discussion around antisemitism is the
fact that we have stopped talking about a lot of the
antisemitism that has been taking place in the Ukraine. I just
want to remind everybody of just a few examples of that. You
probably remembered when Putin unlawfully initially went into
Ukraine, he said that he was going into Ukraine because of de-
Nazification of that country. Also, you have--there was early
on repeated attempts when it was pointed out the President
Zelensky was, in fact, Jewish himself, to try to delegitimize
him being Jewish by saying that, oh, well, he Is not really
that Jewish. We have also heard attempts from the Kremlin to
try to say that that Jews were--the real Nazis were actually
Jews. These are some claims and some things that we have
repeatedly heard since this unlawful invasion of Ukraine.
The reason why I bring that up because that President Biden
in his speech last week before the Nation, he wanted to
reinforce to the American public how important it was that we
help our ally and friend Israel as they try to continue to
combat what happened and the unlawful invasion in their
country, and the antisemitism that is rampant there, and then
also continue to keep our eyes on the ball as it relates to
Ukraine. I wanted to ask you, how important is it--and I will
start with, with Mr. Irwin. I wanted to ask you, how important
is it that we continue to talk about the rise of antisemitism
in the Middle East and what we are seeing now as it relates to
Israel, but then also to continue to talk about antisemitism in
the Ukraine, and remind the American public that it is
important that we continue to fight both of these forces of
antisemitism in very important parts of the world?
Dr. Cotler: Well, Congressman, you have really touched on a
larger, you know, parallelism here. In other words, what we are
seeing is both in the case of Russia and Ukraine and Hamas and
Israel, we are seeing, on the one hand, criminal aggression of
Russia against Ukraine, criminal aggression of Hamas against
Israeli civilians. It is paralleled also by its domestic
repression in each case. In its domestic repression, the
falsification and inversions, for example, Putin saying he
launched his operation, which was really a criminal act of
aggression, for purposes, as you mentioned, de-Nazification.
Again, the false accusation in the mirror. It is Russia's
criminal aggression in Ukraine which has been attended by war
crimes, crimes against humanity, and acts which are
constitutive of a genocide. Yet, he seeks to invert it by using
the Nazification metaphor. Similarly, with regard to Hamas.
I want to mention one thing about Hamas which we do not
always appreciate. That Hamas is not only an enemy of the
Jewish people, regrettably, it is an enemy also of the
Palestinian people. It not only takes Israelis as hostages, but
it holds its own Palestinian people hostage. It engages not
only in war crimes and crimes against humanity, in the
targeting of Israeli civilians, but it keeps his own citizens,
Palestinian citizens, and uses them as human shields. You have
another double war crime, both the targeting of Israeli
civilians and using Palestinian civilians as human shields.
You have in both cases, both in terms of Russia's criminal
aggression in Ukraine, Hamas' criminal aggression against
Israel, paralleled by massive domestic repression. Therefore,
the need thereby to understand that both communities are being
taken hostage by their very respective criminal leaderships.
Representative Veasey: Thank you very much, and I really do
hope that the panel and all of us will do everything in our
power to remind people that the fight against antisemitism and
the antisemitism that is taking place right now in the Middle
East against Israel is important. It is also equally important
to fight the antisemitism that Russia is blatantly putting on
display right now in the Ukraine. We cannot turn our backs on
what is happening in the Ukraine and only fight the fight in
the Middle East. We have to make sure that we continue to fight
in both places against this antisemitism.
Dr. Cotler: Congressman, if I may just add one thing,
because I just concluded my 3-year term as Canada's first
special envoy for preserving Holocaust remembrance and
combating antisemitism. One of the principal findings I had is
that we not only have to combat--in that paradigm--combating
antisemitism from the far right, from the far left, and radical
Islam. That still remains true. We--but one of the most
disturbing findings I felt in the 3-years was that we are
witnessing the increasing mainstreaming, normalizing,
legitimation of antisemitism in the political culture, the
popular culture, the entertainment culture, the sports culture,
and in particular in the campus culture. Here in North America,
that is the future leadership in Congress, in in the media, and
academia, and the like. We have to combat that kind of
pernicious mainstreaming that we have been witnessing both in
your country and in mine.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congressman Veasey.
Again, we could tell you that Democrats and Republicans are
united. Well, here we are, and so you can see it. That is so
important for the world to understand that, hey, the media is
going to cover the divisions, and that is understandable,
except for one thing. The people of the United States stand
with the people of Ukraine, stand with the people of Israel,
stand with the people of Taiwan. Again, what a honor for all of
us. We are so grateful.
Evgenia Kara-Murza, a world hero married to a world hero.
Thank you for your courage for the people of Russia, that we
hope 1 day will enjoy the blessings of liberty. It is so
exciting, and then, Mr. Genser, thank you so much. Then
Attorney General Cotler, I have never seen such clarity from a
Canadian, and so I--[laughter]--and, hey, and I want to--and so
thank you for the different statements you have made. Your
clarity is so impressive and, hey, our prayers with your
family, thank goodness.
I want you to know in my home State of South Carolina, we
love Canadians. We have Can-Am days every year. You are welcome
to Myrtle Beach. For 60 years, we welcome our Canadian
visitors. You are like swallows to Capistrano. When you show
up, it means summer's coming, so please come back.
With that, indeed--
Dr. Cotler: With pleasure.
Chairman Wilson: Another point. Thank you for your
reference to the axis of evil. Hey, this just cannot be
ignored, that we have a war criminal Putin, we have the Chinese
Communist Party, we have Iran, and people say proxies. It needs
to be puppets. Proxies is too nice. These are puppets. These
are dictators, rule of gun, opposing democracies, rule of law.
Not authoritarians or whatever, autocrats, whatever
terminology. It is dictators. They do not like that term, which
is good. That is how you determine what to use.
Also, I want to point out that I appreciate, Attorney
General, you referencing Nuremberg. You are ahead of the curve.
That is on November the 21st we will be having a hearing, two
hearings. In the morning, relative to the kidnapping of
Ukrainian children. In the afternoon, we will have a general
war crimes. This will be at the very historic Courtroom 60 in
Nuremberg, were the Nazi war criminals were tried and
convicted. Indeed, with the--with the situation, even in
absentia.
Then, as I conclude I want to point out that none of you
have been exaggerating what is going on. With Putin, with Iran,
and that is that, indeed, we should know the Hamas covenant of
August the 18, 1988. I want to quote, Article Seven, quote--and
if you will stay for a minute, I want to get a picture with
the--you are a dignitary. Anyway, Article Seven, quote, ``The
day of judgment will not come until Muslims fight Jews and kill
them. Then the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees. The rocks
and trees will cry out, Oh Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind
me. Come and kill him.'' End of quote.
How clear could that be? How clear on the floor of the
parliament in Tehran, death Israel, death to America, in
English. They are very thoughtful to let us know what they have
planned for us. We--what an opportunity that we have to work
together, and so with this, I am just grateful for OSCE. The
staff members, thank you, and thank you to our witnesses. I am
confident that democracies will prevail. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 11:50 a.m., the hearing ended.]