[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
SUPPORTING ISRAEL AND UKRAINE AGAINST
TERROR
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND
COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
OCTOBER 19, 2023
__________
Printed for the use of the Commission on Security and Cooperation in
Europe
[CSCE118-9]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via www.csce.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
53-842 WASHINGTON : 2023
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COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION
U.S. HOUSE U.S SENATE
JOE WILSON, South Carolina Chairman BEN CARDIN, Maryland Co-Chairman
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee Ranking ROGER F. WICKER, Mississippi
Member Ranking Member
ROBERT B. ADERHOLT, Alabama RICHARD BLUMENTHAL, Connecticut
EMANUEL CLEAVER II, Missouri JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
RUBEN GALLEGO, Arizona JEANNE SHAHEEN, New Hampshire
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina THOM TILLIS, North Carolina
MIKE LAWLER, New York SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island
GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana
MARC VEASEY, Texas
EXECUTIVE BRANCH
Department of State - to be appointed
Department of Defense - to be appointed
Department of Commerce - to be appointed
C O N T E N T S
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Page
COMMISSIONERS
Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, from Tennessee................. 1
Hon. Joe Wilson, Chairman, from South Carolina................... 16
Hon. Victoria Spartz, from Indiana............................... 19
Hon. Sheldon Whitehouse, from Rhode Island....................... 21
Hon. Marc Veasey, from Texas..................................... 26
WITNESSES
Oksana Markarova, Ukrainian ambassador to the United States of
America........................................................ 3
Eliav Benjamin, Deputy Head of Mission, The Embassy of Israel to
the United States.............................................. 5
Jamil N. Jaffer, Founder and Executive Director, National
Security Institute at George Mason University.................. 11
Jonathan Schanzer, Senior Vice President, Foundation for the
Defense of Democracies......................................... 12
Dan Twining, President, International Republican Institute....... 14
SUPPORTING ISRAEL AND UKRAINE AGAINST TERROR
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COMMISSION ON SECURITY AND COOPERATION IN EUROPE,
U.S. HELSINKI COMMISSION,
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,
Thursday, October 19, 2023.
The hearing was held from 2:02 p.m. To 3:44 p.m., room 2247
Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC, Representative
Joe Wilson [R-SC], Chairman, Commission for Security and
Cooperation in Europe, presiding.
Committee Members Present: Representative Joe Wilson [R-
SC], Chairman; Representative Steve Cohen [D-TN], Ranking
Member; Representative Victoria Spartz [R-IN]; Senator Sheldon
Whitehouse [D-RI]; Representative Marc Veasey [D-TX].
Witnesses: Oksana Markarova, Ukrainian Ambassador to the
United States of America; Eliav Benjamin, Deputy Head of
Mission, The Embassy of Israel to the United States; Jamil N.
Jaffer, Founder and Executive Director, National Security
Institute at George Mason University; Jonathan Schanzer, Senior
Vice President, Foundation for the Defense of Democracies; Dan
Twining, President, International Republican Institute.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE COHEN, RANKING MEMBER, U.S.
HOUSE, FROM TENNESSEE
Representative Cohen: The hearing will come to order. I am
Congressman Steve Cohen, the ranking member. The chair is
involved in a markup in another committee. He is not being
pushed for speaker. [Laughter.] He would make a great speaker,
would he not? Tell him I said that. Thank you all for attending
this hearing, an important issue.
On October 7, Israel experienced a terrorist attack from
Hamas that was brutal, inhuman, and has caused the world to
concentrate on the Middle East. The world needs to be looking
at what is going on in the Middle East and for the awful,
horrific deaths that Hamas caused. I have been to meetings this
week with families of victims, and a victim who appeared at the
president's Jewish President's Conference. America is pretty
well united behind Israel. That is commendable and good as
should be the case.
There is parallels between Israel and Ukraine, and Hamas
and Russia. Those parallels are pretty clear to anybody that
looks at this issue and the players with an objective eye. A
lot of people, particularly in Congress, some people in
Congress, are not looking at it that way. Congress was pretty
much united behind supporting Israel with military aid and all
other types of aid, except for a few members of the squad.
There are quite a few people who are not for supporting aid to
Ukraine, and that is really sad, because Ukraine is an
independent nation, as is Israel--a sovereign nation that is
having its integrity threatened, attacked. Russia is no
different than Hamas in the case of what they have done in
attacking a sovereign nation and wanting to commit genocide.
Hamas has in their charter that they want to remove all the
Jews from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River. They have some
pretty awful things to say about Jewish people in general, that
they are slime and characters and bad people. They would like
to see, I think, all the Jews in the world destroyed, killed.
Russia has basically done the same thing in Ukraine. They do
not think Ukraine exists. They are a non-State. They believe
that the Ukrainians--they are just trying--they have done all
the aspects of a genocide, taking the children, destroying
cultural sites, you name it.
There is so many parallels and the support should be there
for Ukraine as well as we should be a country, as we have been
over the years, supporting democracy, supporting the rule of
law, and supporting nations that are being attacked by
countries that do not respect the rule of law and do not
respect borders and respect basically what the U.N.'s about and
what OSCE was formed for, the Helsinki Accords. That there are
countries that have geographic integrity and they should not be
interfered with.
We hope we can have funding for both Ukraine and Israel.
There will be a package the president's going to propose to do
that, because they are parallel situations. I know Chairman
Wilson shares my views on both Israel and Ukraine. I look
forward to hearing ideas today for new initiatives and insights
into the problems that we have from our distinguished
witnesses.
Appreciate the Ambassador being here. She has been a
stalwart for Ukraine and have done a marvelous job.
We welcome Mr. Benjamin here as well, deputy chief of
mission from the Embassy of Israel, for his opening remarks. I
heard you at the president's conference at the I Street--6 and
I Synagogue and you were spectacular. Thank you for meeting
with the group and representing the Ambassador.
Following the remarks of the embassies' representatives
here, we will hear from our witnesses.
Jamil Jaffer, founder and executive director of the
National Security Institute at George Mason.
Then hear from Dr. Jonathan Schanzer, senior vice president
of the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies, who literally
wrote the book on Hamas and has been a great friend of this
Commission for some time.
Finally, we will hear from Dr. Dan Twining, president of
the International Republican Institute.
Thank each of you for coming here, for your interest in
this subject. Nothing is closer to my heart, and should be
close to everybody in America's heart.
With that, I yield to the other commissioners for remarks.
Nobody seeks recognition. [Laughter.] With that, I recognize
the Ambassador, Ambassador Makarova.
TESTIMONY OF OKSANA MARKAROVA, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Mr. Markarova: Thank you very much, Co-Chair Cohen. I
apologize for my voice. I have lost it yesterday. I, of course,
could not miss our meeting today. From the onset, let me thank
you and the Commission for your tireless work in defending
human rights everywhere and fighting against injustice and
fighting for dignity. As still, unfortunately, we have so many
terrorists, whether it is a terroristic organization like Hamas
or terroristic State, like Russian Federation, who instead of
working toward resolving real problems that we all still have
are simply trying to kill people. This is appalling in the 21st
century.
I would like to start my remarks with the quote of
President Zelensky, and he said, ``As terror is spreading
across the globe, it is important for the world to give an
unambiguous signal that protection against terror will not stop
anywhere.'' Indeed, only joint resolute decisions and only
joint resolute actions can put a decisive end to the terror
that outcasts regime employ against the innocent civilian
population in so many places. To illustrate the horrors Ukraine
faces daily, I would like to start also to add and demonstrate
a short video on the usage of Iranian-made drones which Russia
deploys against our civilians, our infrastructure.
[A video presentation begins.]
Narrator: Alongside pricey ballistic and cruise missiles,
Russia is using a new technological weapon to accomplish its
war crime in Ukraine--Iranian-made kamikaze drones. Assembled
from commercially available components, the delta winged Shahed
136 drone carries a small warhead, about 50 kilograms, instead
of the more usual 450 kilograms or more for ballistic and
cruise missiles. Keeping a low profile on radars, they carry a
powerful charge. A hit from a drone may be equivalent to a hit
from a missile.
Cheap, lethal, and plentiful, these drones have already
inflicted tremendous damage to Ukraine within the past 18
months of the full-scale aggression. Thirty percent of
Ukraine's power stations were knocked out in just over a week
last year after swarming attacks of the Iranian kamikaze
drones. This is what was left from a school in the town of
Romny after the drone attack on August 23rd. This is the
aftermath of the targeted power plant in Vinnytsia region,
leaving 18,000 people with no heat.
Forty thousand tons of Ukrainian grain that were supposed
to be delivered to Africa, China, and Israel were burned out
after the onslaught of Russian-launched drones on a port in
Izmail, Odessa region. In a massive drone attack on storages
and Lviv, the Kremlin reduced to nothing 300 tons of
humanitarian aid. This is what Ukrainian kids have to go
through every time they hear air raid sirens and explosions
after hostile attacks from the sky. This is a civilian
apartment building that had been hit by a kamikaze drone,
cutting short the life of a couple who was expecting a child.
Even though its navigation signal is vulnerable to jamming,
their quantity trump quality. Such drones can be sent in large
volleys from several directions, overwhelming air defenses. In
just September this year, Russia launched over 500 such drones,
eliminating Ukraine's housing, infrastructure, and human lives.
Russia was also receiving materials from Iran required to build
a drone manufacturing plan that could be fully operational
early next year. Even though Ukraine puts down around 80
percent of Russian-launched drones, the Kremlin is planning to
produce over 6,000 more by summer 2025 to continue terror. The
rest, 20 percent, is quite enough to inflict tangible damage.
Russia longs for more destruction, more pain, and more lives
taken. Stop Russia, cease violence, put an end to terror.
[Video presentation ends.]
Mr. Markarova: Thank you. For 602 days now, Ukraine endures
this reinvasion and start of the aggressive war. In this war,
not only Russia is fighting on the battlefront, but also is
using the Kremlin's key tool, its greatest perverted pride, the
pride of terrorizing civilians. Last winter with these Iranian
drones, but also with other missiles and all the tools that
they have, they attacked pretty much every beautiful city in
Ukraine, trying to destroy schools, trying to hit museums,
trying to destroy residential buildings.
Of course, we will not break, and Ukrainians will not
break. We have to recognize this countless war crimes as pure
terrorist acts that Russia is committing and over and over
again. Obviously, this winter, Russia will try to use the same
tactics of terrorism. Please know that during this horrible
week of attacks on Israel, the terrorist also targeted
civilians, but also targeted one of the largest power plants in
the region. Until last winter when Russia started employing
this tactic, the terrorists had not done so in the previous
attacks. What is it, if not the same playbook?
Yet another proof that unanswered evil doubles, another
proof that the civilized world must stand together against this
modern axis of evil, of countries like Russia, Iran, and others
who join forces in not only trying to wipe out Ukraine, but
also trying to start wars and do terrorist attacks in other
parts of the world. To prevail in this aspect and protect our
civilians, we must deprive Russia of its ability to produce
sophisticated missiles. We must deprive Iran from the
possibility to continue producing them and also sharing them
with Russia. Russia still depends significantly on the Western
technologies to produce them. This link must be decisively cut.
Sanctions must be decisively enforced. All backdoors must be
sealed.
Another aspect of strengthening is, of course--and I want
to, again, thank the Commission of putting constant attention
to it--is the terror against Ukrainian children. Let me draw
attention to a couple of numbers. Five hundred and eight
killed. One thousand thirty-six injured. One thousand four-
hundred and ninety-seven missing. Nineteen thousand five
hundred forty-six deported. Those are not just numbers. Those
are kids, our Ukrainian kids, our neighbors' kids, our kids'
classmates, and it is only the official numbers.
Because we do not control still almost 20 percent of our
territory, which is still occupied and terrorized by Russia, we
do not know the numbers. We do not know what happened to a lot
of people of Mariupol and Melitopol. Mariupol is the city of
400,000 people. We do not know how many of them were killed, or
deported, abducted to Russia. Among all these children are also
orphans, children who have parents, as well as children who
have legal guardians, or children whose parents died during
hostilities.
Yet, again, we are discussing the two countries today. We
see, again, the terrorist attacks against children in Israel.
We have to decisively say that this is a terrorist attack. This
is not some sense from even the war. This is something that is
a war crime and has to be punished with the most severe
punishments. Russia must be held accountable for committing
these crimes and preventing their repetition in the future.
In conclusion, you know, for both of our countries, for
Ukraine for the past 602 days, for Israel, the time is of the
essence. All people who fight for democracy and freedom
throughout the globe count on U.S. leadership and count on U.S.
continued support in order to be able to defend ourselves. We
in Ukraine will not get tired. We will not surrender. We will
not stop until all Ukraine is liberated and until all of our
people are brought home, and until Russia is held 100 percent
accountable.
We do not ask other nations to fight for us. We still are
capable and willing to do it ourselves. We need, sir, all the
support in order to be able to fight. We need the support with
weapons and budget support. We really hope that these
discussions that are in Congress right now on the additional
supplementary budget for Ukraine, and for that matter for
Israel and for other allies, will be supported and adopted so
that we can actually, now when the victory is in sight, double
down on our efforts and liberate all Ukraine. Thank you for
your support, and God bless America.
Representative Cohen: Thank you for your remarks. The
parallels with Iran and Russia both helping--Iran is definitely
helping Hamas. I suspect they are helping Russia. I mean,
Russia is helping Hamas as well. They certainly benefit from
the spotlight being turned away from Ukraine. I think President
Biden in the proposal he is going to have is going to be
supportive of both the areas.
Mr. Benjamin, again, thank you for your remarks yesterday
at the--I guess was yesterday. Time flies, or the day before--
but you are recognized.
TESTIMONY OF ELIAV BENJAMIN, DEPUTY HEAD OF MISSION, THE
EMBASSY OF ISRAEL TO THE UNITED STATES
Mr. Benjamin: Thank you. Thank you, Ranking Member Cohen.
Thank you, Ambassador Makarova, for your remarks, and thank you
for hosting me and us here today.
We are at war. Israel is at war. A war that we did not
choose, but a war that we will end. Once we defeat Hamas, and
we will defeat Hamas, we will make sure that they have no more
capabilities to terrorize any of our people, any of our
citizens, or any of our soldiers anywhere around Israel, or
anywhere around the world.
I woke up 12 days ago now in the middle of the night, it
was 6:30 in the morning in Israel, understanding that we are at
war and realizing that my youngest brother and his wife and
four kids are in their safe room in Netiv HaAsara, adjacent to
the Erez crossing, adjacent to Gaza--it is the closest neighbor
to Gaza--a safe room that he stayed in for the next 12 hours,
with firing and house-to-house manhunts by Hamas. After 12
hours of barely hearing from him and with him having his own
personal pistol outside of the window to make sure that
nobody's coming at them, they managed to finally escape--
learning afterwards that their friends and neighbors two houses
down were massacred; learning afterwards that my sister-in-
law's relative, brother-in-law, who is part of the emergency
preparedness unit of Netiv HaAsara, was killed while taking
action against Hamas. This is a story in a way one could say a
good one, because they survived and they were not injured, at
least physically. Emotionally, of course, we know them, like
everybody else, are going to carry these scars for years to
come.
To date, we are talking about over 1,400 people who have
been brutally murdered, over 3,500 that we know of and that we
are coming out publicly with that have been injured, and over
200 who have been kidnapped. These are not just Israelis. These
are not just Jews. I am holding here a sheet which shows 41
countries, of whom their people have been affected--either
killed or injured or kidnapped, and this is what we know to
date. There are far more that we still don't know of. I am
holding here a few examples of names of American citizens. In
this case, I think they are all--three of them are also
Israeli, but are American citizens. All three of them have been
kidnapped. There are probably more because we do not yet know
the numbers.
Why we do not know the numbers yet? Because we cannot
identify all the bodies. Why we cannot identify all the bodies?
Because they were mutilated, they were burned, they were
hidden, they were taken away. Yes, we are at war, and we will
win this war. We will win this war with the support to the
international community, and first and foremost by the United
States. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you, Mr.
Ranking Member, and to the Commission, and to the U.S.
Congress, and to the administration for everything that you
have been doing up to now and you are continuing to doing as we
speak now in support of Israel in this war against Hamas, to
defeat Hamas.
Understanding in the most unequivocal manner, and in the
clearest way, that these are evil people, if we can even call
them people. This is Israel's 9/11, only if you take the
proportion of the size of Israel this is 9/11 times 10 at
least. This is Israel's fight on ISIS, because some of the
atrocities that came out from Israel, the footage that came out
is even crazier than we saw in the darkest days of ISIS. I am
sparing this honorable Commission from the video that we have--
that I have, portraying some of these atrocities. I have them
available. If the Commission wishes to see them, I am more than
happy to send it over.
This is the face of Hamas, and this is what the whole world
should realize and recognize. This is not just an Israeli war.
It is not just an Israeli fight, again, which we did not start.
Because today it is in Israel. Tomorrow, God forbid, it is in
Ukraine, who have been suffering enough, and more than enough.
The day after that, it could be even here in the United States.
Because these terrorist organizations are not only against
Israelis they are against Jews, and not only in Israel. They
are against mankind, and anything which calls for decency, any
entity and anybody who calls for protecting human rights, and
protecting individuals, and protecting civilians.
I am wearing this blue ribbon here in recognition in
support of those who are held captive and calling for their
immediate--immediate--release. This is one of the things that
we are calling also on the Commission to help us push forward.
Hamas have no value for human life. They are doing--while
Israel is doing its utmost to protect human life, including
Palestinians in Gaza by even calling for them to, quote, ``to
go down south,'' so they will not be affected by the war, Hamas
is doing everything in its power to harm civilians, to harm its
own civilians, and everything that Hamas is committing and
committed is no less than war crimes. If you want, war crimes
against humanity, and this is while Israel is working within
the international human rights law and within the military law.
This is not just Hamas. We are seeing threats emanating
from Hezbollah in the north. We have seen threats and terrorism
also taking place by the Palestinian Islamic Jihad in in Gaza.
We are seeing Iran sitting on the sidelines smiling and
enjoying every moment of it. This is the same Iran that has
been supporting these terrorist organizations forever, too many
years. This is a time also to point the finger in Iran's
direction as an entity which is responsible also for these
things. The deterrence messages that come from the United
States are highly important. They carry a very heavy weight. We
are grateful for the messages that--the messages that are sent
across, including through military maritime presence in the
Eastern Mediterranean and other messages that I will not go
into now. We need to continue this, because these are the
messages that our enemies and foes-- all our enemies and foes
understand.
This war will take time. It is not another cycle of
violence where we put a Band-Aid or a patch on it. The idea is,
as I stated earlier, to eliminate the threat of Hamas once and
for all. We are grateful for--to the United States for its
support, including with hopefully the supplemental support
which will come through in Congress over the next short while.
We are grateful for the sanctions and designations on Hamas by
the United States, including just yesterday sanctions against
another 10 individuals. We are calling for more sanctions, more
designations, and for other countries around the world that
have not yet come to terms with the fact that Hamas is a
terrorist organization to do so here now, sending a very, very
clear message.
The unequivocal support that we are seeing and hearing from
Congress as well, as well as the administration, as well as so
many countries around the world, is heartwarming. It gives us
the tailwind to fight this war. It gives us the ability and the
strength to win this war. Thank you very much.
Representative Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Deputy. We appreciate
your testimony and your work.
I would like to ask each of you, do you either have any
concrete knowledge of Iran's involvement in either Ukraine--we
know in Ukraine with drones--but involvement with Hamas and
what is going on in Israel?
Mr. Benjamin: As we have been saying for years, Hamas and
Iran cooperation was there and is there. We are seeing this
very, very clearly. It comes through training of Hamas
operatives, whether it is in Iran, whether it is in Gaza,
whether it is in other places. We know that a very vast
majority of the funding of Hamas comes from Iran. As I said
earlier, Iran at this point is sitting and smiling. Seeing them
reaching out to Hamas leaders even now today shows exactly
where they are and what they are doing.
Representative Cohen: Have you seen any indications that
Russia has helped Hamas and--or through Iran, or directly?
Mr. Benjamin: I do not know to say this in front of this
Commission at this at this point. We are keeping a very close
eye on all countries in the region.
Representative Cohen: Thank you. You know, they certainly
benefit from it. Putin's statements were less than a concerning
and seemed less than heartfelt about what happened. He is
smiling and what is happening now because it benefits him as
well.
I believe we are going to be able to have support. There
will be some dissenting voices, but I think eventually we will
get it. We have got to get a speaker, at least a temporary
speaker, and hopefully that can happen in the next day or two,
and then we can get some action. The Ukraine package I know
will be large, and one that maybe will not have to incur issues
with additional supplementaries. Israel, I think, it is pretty
secure. I think we have got strong support for Israel and we
will have that. I saw on the news, you may have seen this,
there were two hostages that were, said, found in Gaza, killed.
Have you heard that?
Mr. Benjamin: I have not. I have not yet seen that. I hope
that no hostages have been harmed physically.
Representative Cohen: That was my next--so it was a
grandmother and, I think, her 12-year-old granddaughter. You
are nodding. Yes, it was on the news, and I do not know how
they found them, but they just said they were found. You know
of no other--
Mr. Benjamin: Yes. This is, again, part of the cynical use
and approach of Hamas to human lives, playing with everybody's
minds, playing with people's souls, and with zero dignity to
people and to human beings regardless of where they are from.
Again, it does not matter if we are Israeli or American or
Ukrainian, or any other nation. We are calling, as I said
earlier, for the immediate release of every single hostage
safely back to their homes.
Representative Cohen: Do you believe Hamas health
ministry's statements any more than the Ambassador believes
Putin's statements?
Mr. Benjamin: Absolutely not.
Representative Cohen: Yes. They are both two of a kind.
They are two of a kind. It is a lot of lies.
Ambassador, we have attempted to get some moneys to from
Putin and from the Soviet oligarchs to help rebuild Ukraine. Do
you have any new information about that, or concerns?
Mr. Markarova: Thank you for this question. Well, first of
all, I think is just--it is very just that for all these
horrible distractions, which only for one first year of war the
World Bank estimated at 411 billion [dollars] of just physical
destruction, that it has to be compensated and paid by the
Russians. With regard to the Russian oligarchs, and everyone
who finances this war, support this war, thank you to Congress,
we already have the possibility through the court to confiscate
it and DOJ already has moved forward with one confiscation of
Malofeyev's money, 5.4 million [dollars], and others.
It is going to take time, but I think the major question
right now to discuss with all the G-7 is the sovereign assets.
It is the Russian sovereign assets, which we know that there
are at least, you know, in the vicinity of 300 or 400 billion
[dollars], or maybe even more, frozen by G-7 countries, but not
only. As we recently discovered, there is about 200 billion
[dollars] that are frozen in the Euroclear system in Belgium. I
am very glad that there are more renewed talks right now
between the G-7 ministers of finance on how to confiscate and
how to better use this money even now.
I think we have to join forces there because, again, we are
very grateful for the American support. We are very much
counting on this additional supplementary budget. At the end of
the day, it is not the American or Ukrainian or European
taxpayers who have to pay for this. It is the Russians who have
to pay for their damages. We look forward to working with
Congress. We are working very actively with administration, the
State Department, and Treasury on how to better do it. As the
former minister of finance, I not only believe I know that it
can be done.
I know this is a very specific case that will not
jeopardize the untouchability of the sovereign money, which is
normal in the normal circumstances. This is a very specific
case of a country that has been condemned by 154 countries in
the U.N. for the illegal aggression we have in all three major
cases, the cases against Russia on both aggression and genocide
and everything else. It is only natural and just to use the
sovereign assets as well as the private assets of the Putin's
oligarchs to compensate and to pay this.
Representative Cohen: Yes, I think the House Foreign
Affairs Committee had a hearing on a bill to do that yesterday
and collect those assets. I was--unfortunately, could not
attend. I was with some family members of Israeli victims. I
read something today, a gentleman who had been in Hamas at one
time. He is now renounced them, and he said that Hamas is not
interested in the Palestinians, uses the Palestinians, and
really wants to have an Islamist State across the Middle East.
Do you believe that is accurate, that Hamas is really thinking
beyond the sea to the river, and really looking at all across
the entire Middle East?
Mr. Benjamin: I believe you can hear from an expert on
Hamas in a few minutes far better than I can, and not be
accused of being biased. Sometimes maybe Israelis are
considered biased when they talk about these terrorist
organizations which are out to kill us. Believe me, we are not
biased. Hamas is holding its own people hostage. It has been
holding its own population hostage in Gaza since 2007 when they
took over. Ask any average Palestinian, any average Gazan who
is willing to speak, if he is not scared of Hamas coming
afterwards and killing him. Israel has been providing economic
benefits for Gazans. Twenty thousand Palestinians from Gaza
have been coming daily to work in Israel and bringing food to
their families. That is 20,000 families make the maths. This is
just one small example of the areas that Israel has been--has
been investing in to help the population.
Hamas would have nothing of that. Look at their charter of
Hamas, which calls for destruction, annihilation of Jews, of
Israel and, yes, wants to control everything from the
Mediterranean Sea until the Jordan River. That is their--that
is their aspiration. That is what they want to do, with zero
care about civilians, including their own whom they--yes, they
take as human shields, as we are speaking now. They are firing
rockets from underneath hospitals, from underneath schools,
from underneath mosques, from within residential areas, putting
their own people at risk and sending them to die as well.
This is not what Israel is about, but this is what Hamas is
about and has been about. Now once and for all, unfortunately--
really unfortunately--it took such a horrific war that they
launched on Israel for the whole world to realize what Hamas is
really about, and what we have been saying for so many years
that Hamas is--that Hamas stands for. It is not only Hamas. It
is Hamas. It is the Palestinian Islamic Jihad. It is Hezbollah.
It is all of these terrorist organizations who have zero care
about human beings, and this is what we should--this is who we
should go after and make sure they do not do any more harm.
Representative Cohen: Well, I certainly agree with you. I
think the event we had yesterday or the day before, with the
destruction at the hospital, and the press doing a very poor
job of reporting the information. They almost reported it as
fact, quite a few mainstream media sources did, and then it
flew in the Middle Eastern street as if it was fact. Now we
see, of course, that it was not, that there was a--probably a
Palestinian weapon that had gone awry.
Do you think there is any way--as you say, Israel will be
seen as biased. How could we go about trying to give that
information? Do you think there is any ear that might be opened
to that the argument that it was not an Israeli bomb?
Mr. Benjamin: I call also through this esteemed Commission
to anybody and everybody who is willing to hear and able to
hear, do not follow the news which is sent out by Hamas or by
the Palestinians who are supporting of Hamas in such a blind
way, and in an automatic manner. It is very easy to come and
accuse Israel. Israel is taking things very seriously and in a
responsible manner. We look into these things. We check these
things. We do not come out with fake news.
We came out with very clear evidence that the unfortunate
bombing of this hospital in Gaza was conducted by the
Palestinian Islamic Jihad, by one of their rockets falling on
this hospital. It is not the first time, far from it, of
rockets that Hamas and PIJ are launching that the fall on
Palestinians within Gaza. The denouncement against Israel
from--including countries in our region--is something which is
uncalled for, something which is, as far as we are concerned,
intolerable. We have called them out on this. We call on the
U.S. to call these countries out on this and out of following
blindly statements that come out by Hamas.
Representative Cohen: Well, thank you. I think we are going
to have some and more information come out soon from America
about the intelligence we had and the knowledge and the reason
why it is just reliable information that it was a Palestinian
rocket. We need to get that out. Hopefully we can find some
ears that are still open, not closed in that area. It would
have been stupid, for Israel to bomb a hospital. I mean, that
is the first thing people would say. Well, how would they do
that? Are they crazy? No, they are not crazy. Hamas is lying.
That would have been the more logical thing, but people
understand that yet.
You have been so kind to give us your time. We know you
have got to--you have to be somewhere, Madam Ambassador, and we
appreciate your testimony and your time. Sir, if you would like
to stay, you are welcome to stay, and if not, we understand it
and appreciate your attendance. We will do everything we can to
help.
Mr. Benjamin: Thank you. I am going back to our war room in
the embassy.
Mr. Markarova: Thank you very much.
Representative Cohen: You are welcome.
Second panel, get ready. [Laughter.]
[Break.]
Representative Cohen: Thank you. We are now ready for our
second panel.
Our first witness will be Mr. Jamil Jaffer, the founder and
executive director of the National Security Institute at George
Mason. Thank you for being with us.
Our next witness after that will be Dr. Jonathan Schanzer,
senior vice president of Foundation for the Defense of
Democracies, who wrote the book on Hamas. Great friend of the
Commission. Thank you.
Then we will hear from Mr. Dan Twining, who is the
president of International Republican Institute.
Mr. Jaffer, please.
TESTIMONY OF JAMIL JAFFER, THE FOUNDER AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR
OF THE NATIONAL SECURITY INSTITUTE AT GEORGE MASON
Dr. Jaffer: Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, Mr. Chairman,
Mr. Co-Chairman, thank you for having me here today to testify
about the connections between the war between Israel and Hamas
and the war between Russia and Ukraine. Just a moment to talk
about the horrific terrorist attacks of 10/7. In those attacks,
we saw 1,400 Israelis and other nationals killed in a single
day. Two hundred kidnapped, held beneath the tunnels in Gaza.
Thirty-one of those were Americans. Twenty of those kidnapped
are Americans.
It was the single deadliest day in Israel's history, single
deadliest day for the worldwide Jewish community since the
Holocaust. It is the equivalent over a dozen 9/11 attacks on a
population-adjusted-basis. Let me say that again. We have about
--or, on the day of 9/11 attacks we have about 280 million
Americans. We lost 3,000, approximately, Americans that day.
The Israelis lost 1,400 of their own on a population of
approximately 9 million--over a dozen 9/11 attacks.
It is worth remembering how our allies handled the days,
weeks, months, and even years after those attacks. They stood
by us. They traveled with us to every corner of the globe to
hunt down Al-Qaida and its leadership as we took that terrorist
organization apart. For 20 years, while we fought that global
war on terrorism, we remained safe in this country from the
mass-scale terrorist attack by Al-Qaida. We owe our allies the
same. We owe them a duty of standing by them in response to
these terrorist attacks. We owe our friends in Ukraine the same
duty.
They were invaded, with no cause, by Russia, itself a
terrorist nation-State. We have stood by Ukraine, providing
over $40 billion in security assistance over the last 2 years.
Truth be told, we have slow-rolled that assistance. The most
advanced weaponry that they need to win that war M-1 Abrams, F-
16s, ATACMS, HIMARS are all now getting in the fight. Had they
been in the fight earlier, had we trained them on it earlier,
there is a possibility that they could have pushed back harder
on Russia, kept them out of their territory, and remove more of
Russia from their territory thus far.
There is a key connection between these two fights. We know
that Iran today supplies all manner of drones to Russia in its
fight in Ukraine. We know that Iran has troops on the ground in
Ukraine training Russians on the use of those drones. We know
that Iran is considering providing short-range ballistic
missiles to Russia in that conflict. Russia, for its part, it
has provided Iran with its primary source of conventional
munitions and nuclear technology for the vast majority of the
time.
Now, the key connection between these organizations is
important to note. It is not just Russia and Iran. It is China
and North Korea as well. These are all globally repressive
nation-states. They repress their own people, they hold them
back, they give them no opportunity. Then they seek to export
that repression to other parts of the globe, first of their
immediate neighborhood and then more broadly across the world.
These nations are increasingly working together. We see China
and Russia's no limits partnership. We see President Xi saying
to President Putin in an offhand conversation that the world
heard that there are changes that was not seen in 100 years,
and we--Russia and China--are leading those changes.
We know that for decades Iran and North Korea have
cooperated on ballistic missile and nuclear technology. We know
that today in the fight in Gaza, Hamas is using North Korean
rocket-propelled grenades. The reality is these globally
repressive nation-states have long been working together. It is
incumbent upon the United States to stand with our friends in
Ukraine and our allies in Israel in this fight against global
repression. Thank you for the time, and I appreciate it. I will
take your questions afterwards. Thank you.
Representative Cohen: Thank you for your testimony and your
attendance.
Dr. Schanzer, you have written the book on Hamas. I keep
thinking of the song, the book of love--who wrote the book of
love. [Laughter.] I am interested to hear about your book.
TESTIMONY OF JOHNATHAN SCHANZER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT,
FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMORCRACIES
Dr. Schanzer: That was not it. [Laughter.]
Well, Ranking Member Cohen, members of the Commission, on
behalf of FDD, I want to thank you for the opportunity to
testify today. Israel has just suffered in Iran-sponsored
massacre. Ukraine is struggling to repel Russian forces, and
Taiwan watches with grave concern as China threatens to invade.
America must view these three embattled democracies as
important assets, and I must view these three adversaries as a
threat to the U.S.-led world order.
As we speak, there is a very real possibility of a regional
war erupting in the Middle East. The Islamic Republic of Iran
has armed and funded Hamas and Hezbollah, along with other
factions in the region. Recent reports point to the existence
of an Iranian-led nerve center in Beirut that is designed to
help these terrorist groups target Israel more efficiently.
Fortunately, the IDF has thwarted Iranian efforts to create a
new terror proxy in the Golan Heights. Israel has repeatedly
destroyed most if not all of what Iran is trying to stand up
there. However, Iran-backed militias do remain in Syria, and
Russia's presence in Syria has complicated all of this.
Moscow's missile defense systems have forced Israel to take
significant precautions in the ongoing effort to prevent the
smuggling of advanced Iranian weapons from Syria to Lebanon.
These are precision guided munitions. We have never seen a non-
State actor, a terrorist group, acquire these before, and
Russia is making this more difficult. Now, the operations to
destroy these weapons in Syria are ongoing. They often take
place with Russian knowledge. It is an uneasy arrangement, and
because of that, the Syrian front is still manageable, but
Russia's role in the region is far from positive. Moscow
continues to work closely with both Iran and Hezbollah.
In fact, Russian-Iranian relations have deepened
considerably since Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022. This
goes beyond the sanctions-busting that was the basis of their
relationship before all this started. Russia has received UAVs
from Iran, which we have heard today. Tehran has sent advisors
to train Russian personnel. Since last summer, Russia has
launched over 2,000 Iranian UAVs into Ukraine. Moscow now wants
to produce some of these UAVs domestically, and so Russia and
Iran are currently working together to increase the drones'
range and speed.
Iran has supplied other material to Russia, like artillery
shells and rockets. In return, Tehran wants Russia to provide
fighter jets, and attack helicopters, and radar, and combat
trainer aircraft, and more. Moscow has sent to Iran some
captured Western weapons from Ukraine. These include Javelin
and NLAW anti-tank guided missiles and Stinger MANPADS.
Amidst all of this, on top of it all, concerns are mounting
about a Chinese invasion of Taiwan. Beijing has openly
intimidated the island nation. Within a 24-hour time span in
July 16 PLA warships approached Taiwan accompanied with over
100 different aircraft sorties. China's calculus about an
invasion of Taiwan could be influenced heavily right now by
what the United States does in Ukraine and in Israel. The
landscape is clear. China, Iran, and Russia are working
together. Our policy must be to deny them the ability to
threaten our friends and our interests.
What can be done? The first step is fully funding the
Department of Defense. Congress needs to break the cycle of
continuing resolutions and provide a more steady stream of
resources to itself and to our allies. Washington needs a
procurement strategy that can address supply chain
vulnerabilities while enhancing our ability to produce critical
materials and technology during times of crisis. We should
learn what Israel, Ukraine, and Taiwan need to defend
themselves.
In the case of Israel, I can tell you now that we can
provide several items without massive investments or new
manufacturing. This includes precision munitions, small-
diameter bombs, Tamir interceptors for the Iron Dome, and,
actually, it is great news. I was going to recommend it, but it
is already happened. The United States has sent two of its Iron
Dome batteries based in Guam to Israel, en route already.
To combat China's aggressive rise, Congress needs to
support viable alternatives to the Belt and Road Initiative to
countries that need that kind of assistance around the world.
We need to continue to strengthen the screening of large
investments here in the United States through CFIUS, the
Committee on Foreign investment in the United States. We should
pass that supplemental aid bill for Ukraine that provides
enough funding to last through the 2024 elections.
Finally, when this crisis in Israel is over, when the dust
settles, an Iran policy review is long overdue. Policies that
appease the regime rather than confronting it have undeniably
contributed to the crisis we face today. I will end here. On
behalf of FDD, I thank you for the invitation.
Representative Cohen: You are welcome. Thank you for
accepting it.
Dr. Twining, you are recognized from the International
Republican Institute.
TESTIMONY OF DAN TWINING, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL REPUBLIC
INSTITUTE
Dr. Twining: Thank you, Mr. Cohen, members of the
Commission. Proud to be before you today.
The free world is under assault from an authoritarian axis
that wants to cripple American leadership, break American
alliances, and make the world safe for autocracy. America's
role in the face of this coordinated campaign of authoritarian
aggression is to restore deterrence and stand on the side of
freedom. We can do that by serving as the arsenal of democracy
that allows our allies in Israel and Ukraine to prevail, while
making sure that Taiwan does not succumb to a similar assault.
First, let's be clear: the balance of power is on our side.
Russia and Iran are broken economies. Russia is a declining
power that steals from its own citizens. Iran's leaders invest
in fomenting violence and repression rather than improving the
lives of ordinary Iranians. In contrast, the U.S. and our
allies control some 70 percent of global GDP.
Yet, authoritarians no longer fear American power, perhaps
confusing our domestic political divisions for lack of
strategic will. Our adversaries are emboldened by our
flirtation with isolationism. American retrenchment does not
produce local solutions to problems, it creates vacuums of
power our enemies seek to fill, leading to larger
conflagrations. America cannot cede the field to revisionist
powers and violent extremists. Pull back makes the world more
dangerous for Americans.
Unlike democracies that seek prosperity and security
through peace, authoritarians sow conflict abroad to distract
their citizens from problems at home. This is true of Putin's
war on Ukraine, China's threats against Taiwan, and Iran's
sponsorship of terror. Hamas rules Gaza by force, spending
their resources on weapons to attack Israel rather than on the
needs of desperate Palestinians. Authoritarians are working
together in novel ways. Moscow and Beijing used Hamas' assault
not to express support for Israel but to condemn America and
our policies. Iran is the world's leading state-sponsor of
terror, yet China's foreign minister has expressed firm support
for Tehran, quote, ``on issues concerning core interests.''
Iran arms Russia with drones to attack Ukraine.
Vladimir Putin openly supports Xi Jinping's ambition to
conquer Taiwan by force. China massively increased energy
imports from Russia to offset Western sanctions and has tripled
exports of integrated circuits to Russia. Both China and Russia
help Iran circumvent international sanctions. China has more
than tripled imports of Iranian oil. Russian, Chinese, and
Iranian media amplify each other's anti-Western propaganda,
including that Ukraine and Israel are aggressors not victims.
It is vital not to mistake Hamas' control of Gaza with
legitimacy. There have been no elections in Gaza since 2006.
Hamas will not hold them because it thinks it will lose.
Polling from September, a month ago, shows that only a quarter
of Palestinians support Hamas leading the Palestinian people.
Before the conflict, 77 percent of Palestinians told pollsters
they wanted elections as soon as possible. A supermajority
tells pollsters that Hamas is corrupt. It is a terrorist
organization not a governing authority that seeks better lives
for Palestinians. Residents of Gaza suffer poverty, isolation,
and violence at its hands.
What are the implications of these dangerous developments
for the United States? First, if America's three greatest
adversaries are going to actively collaborate in armed attacks
on our allies, that's all the more reason for us to ensure that
friendly democracies prevail in the fight. Giving Ukraine and
Israel what they need to restore their sovereignty and security
is essential. Appeasing aggression in one theater only invites
belligerence in another. Make no mistake, China is watching our
reaction to the wars on Ukraine and Israel with great interest.
If we do not show the will and staying power to help our
friends win, we only embolden Chinese designs in Asia.
Defeating aggression in Europe and the Middle East is central
to deterring aggression in Asia.
America should be the arsenal of democracy to support
Israel, Ukraine, and Taiwan in the face of authoritarian
aggression. Of course, that is not all we need to do. Dictators
fundamentally fear their own people. Our policy should much
more strongly support the Iranian people, who yearn for
modernity and openness not despotism and terror. We should
stand with Ukraine, not just to repel armed aggression but
because a successful democracy in Ukraine could transform
Russia by showing that the cradle of Russian civilization,
which was founded in Kyiv, thrives in freedom.
Finally, America should double down on investing in
responsive governance around the world. Violent extremism
incubated in Gaza's hothouse of repression. China, Russia, and
Iran exercise the most influence against us where governing
elites are corrupt, media is censored, civil society is
repressed, elections are not free, and democratic institutions
are absent. Investing in the cause of freedom abroad is a very
sound way to protect American security at home. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOE WILSON, CHAIRMAN, U.S. HOUSE,
FROM SOUTH CAROLINA
Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Dr. Twining. I regret that I
was not here on time except for one good thing, we had a full
Foreign Affairs Committee meeting, which is remarkable in terms
of bipartisanship, and so I quote one of our friends,
Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee: ``Good news has no feet; bad
news has wings.'' Let me tell you the good news, and indeed, it
is bipartisan and the issues we were discussing largely with
the regime in Tehran and the oppression of the people of Iran.
Then as I came in, Dr. Twining, I always like to remind you
that one of the most memorable times I ever had--experienced in
my life, was to be an IRI, International Republican Institute,
election observer in Bulgaria on June 10, 1990, to see the
success of American victory in the cold war. To see what a
vibrant country Bulgaria is today, that even Mr. Jaffer would
not have imagined.
This--with that in mind--also, I was really pleased to see
you are connecting the dots. What we are into as a war we did
not choose of dictators with rule of gun opposing democracies
with rule of law. In that conflict, we have an axis of evil
that you have identified, and it would be Putin, Raisi, Xi, and
then who would ever imagine the destitute, poverty-stricken,
slavish regime in North Korea providing weapons to Hamas?
Dictator Un, but we can win with peace through strength.
Since I was a bit late, I am going to show another part of
bipartisanship that is absolutely remarkable. We are going to
ask questions, 5 minutes, from each of us. I am actually going
to defer, can you imagine, to the ranking member, Congressman
Cohen, to go first.
Representative Cohen: Thank you. In an exhibit of
bipartisanship, I recommended you for speaker before you got
here. [Laughter.]
Chairman Wilson: That would be an insult. I cannot believe
it. It is sending somebody to purgatory. That is just not good.
[Laughter.]
Representative Cohen: Dr. Schanzer, you wrote the book on
Hamas. When I heard about the gentleman who said that Hamas
wants an Islamist State, my mind went to, like, ISIS and the
Islamic State that goes all the way to Iraq. Is their Islamic
State that they envision that broad, or is it the land of
Israel in the land that is presently under Palestinian control?
Dr. Schanzer: It is a good question. I will try to unpack
it here quickly. If you look at the charter, the charter calls
for the liberation of Palestine. It is a mash up basically of
Palestinian nationalism and Islamic fundamentalism or Jihadism,
if you will. When you begin to look at the history of Hamas, as
I have, you begin to see that, first of all, it is a splinter
faction of the Muslim Brotherhood, which envisions global
domination by Islam. Then you begin to look at who has trained
and worked alongside Hamas, both in terms of funding and arming
the group.
Actually there we look back to the early years in the
1990's, where Hamas was working alongside the likes of Al-Qaida
in Sudan. You begin to get a sense of the fellow travelers of
this organization. They all have a vision for a different kind
of world, one in which the U.S. is no longer calling the shots
and we are Islam reigns supreme, and so there is that element
of this organization. Now, do not get me wrong, I think they
would be quite content with overrunning Israel and destroying
it with the help of Iran, its primary patron. They will be
looking to some of these other Islamist partners. They are
fellow travelers with Al-Qaida, the Islamic State, Iran, and
others.
Representative Cohen: Have you seen any influence of Russia
in this particular Middle Eastern episode?
Dr. Schanzer: I have not seen any direct intervention by
Russia. I mentioned before that, you know, Hezbollah and Iran
have worked alongside Russia in Syria, where there have also
been some of these Shia militias that had been threatening to
invade Israel. That is one Russian component of it. The other
is I mean, it was interesting, there was a call between
Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu. I want to say it was 2
days ago. It was professional and courteous, but it came right
on the heels of a conversation that Putin had with Hamas, where
they lauded him for a proposed U.N. Security Council resolution
that condemned Israel for the ongoing violence in the Middle
East right now, if you can just imagine that.
Representative Cohen: Do either of you other gentlemen --
and thank you, sir--have any knowledge of Russia's involvement
in any direct way with Middle Eastern conflict?
Dr. Jaffer: Well, we have seen reports just in the last few
days. We saw Ali Baraka, a Hamas spokesman, on Russia Today
right after the 10/7 attacks talking about the fact that Russia
was politically supporting Hamas. He noted that they have
licenses from Russia to build Kalashnikov rifles and to--and to
obtain ammunition. There have been claims by Ukraine that
Russia's trained Hamas fighters. We have also seen Vladimir
Putin back in 2006 invite Hamas leadership to Moscow and fete
them there, and so Russia has never declared Hamas to be a
terrorist organization. U.S. declared it to be terrorist
organization over 20 years ago in 1997. Russia's draft
resolution on the issue--on the ongoing war between Israel and
Hamas does not mention the terrorist attacks themselves, if you
can imagine. It simply talks about Israeli actions.
It is pretty clear where Russia's loyalties lie in this
fight. While they may have conversations with the prime
minister, we know where Vladimir Putin stands. He sees this as
taking a problem off his plate and putting it squarely on the
United States. He blames actually--the Russia resolution blames
the United States, of all things, for what is happening the
Middle East today. Obviously, that is just wrong.
Representative Cohen: Thank you.
Dr Schanzer: There is one other thing I neglected to
mention. There was one isolated report in the Israeli media,
and I have not been able to verify it, that Putin has actually
issued, I do not know if I would call it a direct threat, but
he is commented on the deployment of American naval assets and
called it a problem in the region that needs to be removed, as
the U.S. has deployed the military there to try to help, you
know, stand behind our Israeli allies.
Representative Cohen: Let me throw out one other thing and
thought, and then I am going to be at my 5 minutes, I guess. I
should stay within my 5 minutes. I yield back.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congressman Cohen. I
would like now to make my opening statement, and then, of
course, we will defer to Congresswoman Spartz, all the way from
Indiana. We are grateful for her service, and then I will do my
5 minutes, and it will be strictly enforced.
I want to thank everybody for attending this critical
hearing today. Terrorism is defined as the unlawful use of
violence and intimidation, especially against civilians in the
pursuit of political aims. This hearing takes place after the
most horrific terrorist attacks committed against Israel ever.
Iranian regime-backed and Russia-supported Hamas has
slaughtered, raped, kidnapped, over 1,000 people at what has
been referred to as Israel's 9/11 and Pearl Harbor. Meanwhile,
Putin's forces are committing terrorist attacks across Ukraine
with civilians coming under attack by Putin's forces to commit
mass murder, rape, and engaged in the kidnapping of Ukrainians,
bombing schools and hospitals indiscriminately, just as they
had done in Syria.
This magnitude of terrorism is only possible in a world on
fire, where deterrence has broken down, with an appearance of
appeasement to terrorism. We are in a war that not--that we did
not choose, as dictators with rule of gun seek to destroy
democracies with rule of law. Hamas and their backers and
financiers in Tehran feel empowered. The Iranian regime has
gotten away with supplying weapons to Putin and embedding
terrorist leaders within parliament of fragile governments
receiving international support. They note the administration's
willingness to negotiate with terrorists providing ransom
money. The lessons of history are a reminder that peace comes
only through strength, and diplomacy only works where leverage
exists.
Had the United States and our allies committed to supplying
Ukraine with the weapons needed initially, it is likely the
courageous Ukrainians would have already succeeded in removing
Putin's forces. It is a sad truth, but the world anticipated
Ukraine to lose, underestimating the resolve of Ukrainian
patriots. Delays have not only prevented Ukraine from saving
lives, but demonstrated to dictators that the United States has
not responded seriously to attacks on our allies, and possibly
even to ourselves. Despite Russia's terror attacks against
Ukraine and backing from the terrorist State Iran, the United
States surprisingly still has not recognized Russia as a State
sponsor of terrorism.
Russia's funding of the terrorist organization Wagner Group
is well known, as are Putin's meetings with Hamas in Moscow in
March of last year and just in August of--excuse me--this year.
Hamas visiting with Putin. How clear could this be? Documented
connections to Hezbollah in Syria. Its doctrine against Ukraine
is one of pure terror. It targets civilians to destroy civilian
infrastructure with the express purpose of terror. It is the
obvious terrorist State. Why do we not label it one? Why do we
still seek to preserve a status quo in which terrorist
dictators states enjoy full integration with rule of law
democracies?
We did not choose the fight. After the cold war, every
nation was given the opportunity to embrace democracy and enjoy
a future of freedom and prosperity. Dozens of countries are
free today from communism with the largest number of countries
ever and freedom and democracy due to American military
strength. Sadly, a network of terrorist states preferring
genocide and barbarism were unhappy with this arrangement. Now,
instead of appeasing these states and hoping, we must isolate
and defeat them. The democracies of the world must close ranks
to defeat the dictators.
This means primarily prioritizing the three beleaguered
democracies who are frontlines for freedom and stability.
Israel, Ukraine, and Taiwan. These great societies cling hard
to freedom next to neighbors who do everything they can to pry
it from their hands. We need to understand that dictators and
terrorists of the world are working together, a network
consisting of Russia, the Iranian regime, Hamas, Hezbollah, and
the Chinese Communist Party, the rule of gun. As the other
side, we need to build a network of well-armed rule of law
democracies and reestablish deterrence so that these terrorists
will never consider attacking us or interrupt the ability to
achieve peace through strength.
Gruesomely, the first victims of dictators are the
oppressed people of Russia, the oppressed people of Iran, and
the oppressed people of China. Both war criminal Putin and the
regime in Tehran and its terror groups receive weapons from the
hermit regime of Kim Jong-un. Hamas recently used weapons
provided by North Korea in their murderous attack on networks
and must be stopped. I would refer you, there is an article
either on Fox News or in New York Post with specific weapons,
the pictures of the weapons, the description of the weapons.
They are only made in the dictatorship in Pyongyang, and I am
sorry, I do not have the exact identification of these weapons.
It is extraordinary how clear this is that it does not take
--took rocket science to figure out a bizarre-looking anti-tank
missile which says ``Made in DPRK,'' that it is made in DPRK.
Frequently, enemies of America and actually are very helpful to
put it in English. I have seen downed drones from Yemen, and
all of them were very helpful because it said ``Made in Iran.''
With that, I now refer to Congresswoman Spartz.
STATEMENT OF VICTORIA SPARTZ, U.S. HOUSE, FROM INDIANA
Representative Spartz: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you
for being here and having this important conversation,
especially in this important times. You know, I really have not
spent before I was in Congress much time in the Middle East.
Just visited few times, but around what is happened in
Afghanistan, Ukraine, I spent a little bit more time and really
understood the importance of the region, complicated situation
on the region, but also that significant impact Russia has to
destabilize the region, Middle East, North Africa, and other in
the direct way, in Syria and working with Iran, or indirect way
in places like Libya, Sudan.
I also realize that our policy maybe do not pay as much--we
do not pay as much attention to how some, you know, deterrence
used to be much stronger. You know, know a little bit more than
enough to be dangerous, but you probably know more than I do. I
just wanted to get each of your perspectives. What do you
believe, as the United States, maybe we need to do better
dealing--you know, have stronger policies and have more
deterrences and understanding of this region, because, you
know, ultimately, you know, Russia goal is to destabilize
Europe, South America, you know, Middle East. I do not think
majority our allies in other country want that. I do not think
it is benefit and anyone. You know, they use a lot of cheap
weapons, but a lot of lives are lost. You know, it costs not
just, you know, a lot of money, but a lot of lives. What would
you--just your perspective--you each of you can comment what we
can do better? Maybe we should pay more attention to some
developments there. Thank you.
Representative Twining: Thank you, Congresswoman. I will
channel Senator Whitehouse just for a minute and say cleaning
up dirty money flows that benefit regimes like Russia, like
Iran, like North Korea. The North Koreans make a significant
amount of their State revenue through illicit trafficking in
all sorts of things, right? Cleaning up dirty money flows that
benefit dictators. Taking strategic initiative. It feels like
the democracies are very reactive these days. We wait for the
bad guys. We let them make the first move and then we cede the
advantage to them in trying to cobble together a united
response.
Take advantage of our authoritarian adversaries' greatest
weakness, which is fundamentally their great insecurity about
their own people, right? I mean, you are here in the U.S.
Congress because citizens elected you. If citizens in these
countries had a choice, they would choose different leaders.
That is actually true of Hamas in Gaza, which is why it has not
had an election since it took power nearly 20 years ago. Let us
spend much more time and energy thinking very seriously about
defense and increasing deterrence through traditional military
means. Let us also think about what our authoritarian
adversaries are most afraid of.
Dr. Schanzer: Thank you for the question. I am going to use
the current crisis right now to sort of, I think, explain how
America can get a win. That attack by Hamas was sponsored by
Iran. Hamas is a[n] Iran-backed terrorist organization that
also enjoys the support of China and Russia. As Israel has now
readied to go into the Gaza Strip and to destroy this terrorist
organization, with the support of the United States, we are now
seeing Iran-backed proxies threaten a much wider war. We are
watching Hezbollah in Lebanon, Shi'ite militias in Syria,
potentially other groups in other parts of the region.
What needs to happen here right now is America needs to
determine the outcome of this conflict, and by that, I mean, it
needs to deter Iran. It needs to deter Hezbollah, and any other
actor that might intervene, and force them to watch helplessly
as our ally destroys Hamas, watch them look on helplessly as
one of their important pieces is removed from the chessboard.
If we can do that, then I think we are now in the process of
reestablishing deterrence after having lost it for many years.
Dr. Jaffer: Congressman, I think it is a really important
question you raised. I want to agree with the views expressed
by both Dr. Twining and by Dr. Schanzer. I guess what I would
say is, what you are seeing happening in the world today--
whether it is Russia-Ukraine, the threats by China against
Taiwan, Iran's support of Hamas and the terrorist attacks of
10/7, is what happens when you have a world devoid of American
leadership. This is what happens when we abandon our allies and
do not make our foes afraid.
The world has watched as we failed to enforce the Syria red
line, as we failed to support our allies in Ukraine in the
first invasion by Vladimir Putin when he took Crimea. What
happens when we withdrew so terribly from Iraq and Afghanistan,
abandoning our allies who stood by us in that war. This is what
happens when America does not lead, and we can lead. We are
called lead. The American people want us to lead. There is a
popular view that the American people would not support America
going into the fight or spending the money it takes to buildup
our military and defend our allies, both Israel and Ukraine.
That is not true. Americans want to know why. Why it
matters to their economic bottom line, why it matters to our
national security. It does matter. We need leaders like you
all, and a president who will explain it. We have not seen that
in over a decade and a half.
Representative Spartz: Thank you.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congresswoman Spartz, and, hey,
Congresswoman Spartz has a unique perspective. She was born in
the Soviet Union, now today the free, independent country of
Ukraine. She has the distinction of being--even Senator
Whitehouse would be surprised, the only Member of Congress who
was born in the Soviet Union.
We now refer to Senator Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.
STATEMENT OF SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, U.S. SENATE, FROM RHODE ISLAND
Senator Whitehouse: Thank you very much. Pleasure to be
with you all. Glad to see my friend Dan Twining here. Thank you
for participating and for mentioning the importance of cleaning
up the flow of dark money in succeeding in the clash of
civilizations that we face right now.
I borrow that phrase from Samuel Huntington with some
hesitation, because I put the border line in that clash of
civilizations in a different place. I put it between
transparent democratic societies with rule of law and
autocracies and kleptocracy and countries that are run by
criminals. Unfortunately, one of the predicaments we have in
the United States of America is that there are powerful people
who make a lot of money aiding and abetting the dark money
kleptocrats and autocrats. We are, in that sense, giving aid
and comfort to our enemies, so we do need to continue to clean
that up.
There are two fairly specific things that I would like to
ask you to comment on, particularly Dr. Schanzer, if I may.
Along with Ranking Member Risch, I am the lead on the--what we
call the REPO Act, which would authorize the president to work
with other countries in Europe that are also home to frozen
Russian sovereign assets and create a procedure for seizing
those assets and directing them to Ukraine to be used for
rebuilding and other purposes. There is, I think, mixed
feelings in the administration about this, but they seem to be
moving our way. I would love to have your thoughts on the value
of grabbing those sovereign assets, not just as additional
resources for Ukraine but also as a powerful signal to Putin
that his behavior is going to have real punishment, and hitting
them good and hard right in the wallet I think would be a good
added signal.
That the second is simply to make sure that we do a better
job of grabbing Russian oligarch assets. We have a predicament
right now, which is that if you are a U.S. citizen and you are
driving down the highway and you got $400,000 in unexplained
cash in your car, the police can pull you over and they can
seize that. If you are a foreign Russian crooked oligarch, and
you have a $400 million yacht someplace, you have more rights
than that American citizen in terms of defending your yacht.
[Laughter.] It is a very simple procedure. It is called in rem.
You move on the yacht rather than having to chase through all
the ownership structures. I would very much like to see us pass
a bill that allows us to proceed against foreign oligarchs,
criminals, and kleptocrats' assets in rem.
Dr. Schanzer, if you would go first, and then if there is
any time remaining, if Dan could pinch in.
Dr. Schanzer: Sure. Thank you, Congressman Whitehouse.
First, I want to just say that on this question of aiding
and abetting our enemies, I think it is worth noting right now
that we have been--we have been aiding and abetting Iran with
appeasement, contributing to the attacks that took place on 10/
7. We have been allowing countries like Qatar and Turkey and
Malaysia to continue to sponsor Hamas. These things need to
stop, and I would certainly encourage this Commission to look
at that as well. Specifically to your question--
Senator Whitehouse: Thank you.
Dr. Schanzer: The seizing of assets and redirecting them to
Ukraine, I think sounds like a solid thing for the United
States to do. I think, though, it would make sense to do this
with a coalition of countries, so that the U.S. is not singled
out.
Senator Whitehouse: That is what the legislation requires.
In fact, the bulk of the funds are actually held in European
countries, so acting on our own would not be--
Dr. Schanzer: It would not be effective.
Senator Whitehouse: It would not be effective.
Dr. Schanzer: Correct. So getting the Europeans on board--
and, by the way, getting the Europeans to chip in a bit more,
just as we are, I think is also a very sound policy. As far as
targeting the oligarch assets, I fully understand your
frustration. When I worked at the Treasury Department trying to
track those kinds of assets was never easy. We did work with a
sort of shorthand version of if we are 80 percent sure that we
know what we are dealing with, we are going to move first and
then adjudicate after it has been done. By and large, that
worked out very well during the height of the war on terror,
and there was an urgency that I think needs to be felt now as
we think about targeting Russian assets too.
Senator Whitehouse: To go to--follow down my path of in
rem, Latinate legal terms, there iis also qui tam out there,
which allows individuals to bring fraud actions in the name of
the United States. If it turns out there really is fraud, they
get a share of it. It would be nice to have people who work
for, let us say, a Russian oligarch, to be able to be paid a
bit of a bounty if they come in and testify and say: Yup,
definitely his boat. Every time we go out, he is on it. Every
time the guests come, they are his guests, and we call him
boss. Things like that can make a big difference. We are trying
to push that as well.
Dr. Schanzer: That sounds like something for the Rewards
for Justice Program at the State Department. They might be able
to expand it. We already have already bounties for those that
provide evidence leading to arrests of terrorists. Why not
oligarchs?
Senator Whitehouse: Correct. I think my time has expired,
so I will turn it back to the distinguished panel. Thank you
very much for allowing a member of the other body to come over
and associate with his betters. [Laughter.]
Chairman Wilson: Hey, the whole story, we are very humbled
to have somebody from the House of Lords come here, Okay?
[Laughter.]
Senator Whitehouse: So funny.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Senator Whitehouse
and, indeed, thank you so much for raising--we are in a clash
of civilizations, gosh. It just--we have got to be prepared,
and we have gone through the cold war with prospects,
particularly for the young people out there, that we had no
chance of succeeding. Now tens of millions of people live in
freedom that would have never been imagined, with IRI helping
lead the way, and NDI too, and so we appreciate that.
Then the highest form of flattery is that Congressman Cohen
and I have copied the Whitehouse-Risch REPO bill, and so we
have the House version. Indeed, I think it would be great if we
could add the rewards program to that in some way. That would
be very, very helpful. As we are looking at the just horrible
situation of loss--murderous loss of life, really, now in
several such gruesome locations, one fact is that Russia,
Putin, and Iran, Dr. Schanzer, have worked together with drones
and other military equipment. There are sanctions against the
Putin regime, the war criminal. With that in mind, is there
more that can be done to block the military equipment coming
from the regime in Tehran that oppresses the people of Iran?
Dr. Schanzer: In short, the answer is there are huge
numbers of things that we can do to put additional pressure on
the regime in Iran that would inhibit its ability to move money
and to move the technical parts necessary for these drones.
FDD, sir, has something like 200 different recommendations on
how to crack down on the regime. We are very happy to hand
those to you, and they include elements of this
nonproliferation regime, which has a lot of holes in it.
Chairman Wilson: Well, thank you so much and, again, this
is so bipartisan, and I look forward to working together with
my colleagues. I do want to give one bit of good news, and that
is that last week I was at the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in
Copenhagen. It was just remarkable to see the unanimity of
support for Ukraine and then something that could never be
imagined, Sweden giving up 200 years of neutrality to address
the dictators. Finland, with an 830-mile border, to address the
dictators. The protection for the Baltic republics, who would
ever have imagined?
At the same time, Senator, it was really very encouraging,
the support of Israel. There have been times in the past where
our European friends have not been so unified. They were and
are today, understanding the implications of dictatorships
around the world, and they recognize what occurred and Israel.
France 24 news that I was watching in English had about Pearl
Harbor. The prime minister of Denmark spoke to us about the
combination of Pearl Harbor and 9/11, and so there was a
realization. Then, indeed, Mr. Jaffer, the planning for this
October 7 attack, which coincidentally is Putin's birthday,
with the collaboration possibly around the world, could this
have been conducted just by indigenous members of Hamas?
Dr. Jaffer: Thank you, Chairman Wilson. There is no way
that Hamas could have conducted this attack without the
support, supply of weaponry, and money from Iran. Period, full
stop. This is the only way that organization functions. It is
at the core of its behavior and its capability. That is exactly
why as this fight continues, and particularly if this fight
expands to Hezbollah in the north which is another Iranian
proxy, we must hold the Iranian regime accountable for what is
taking place, and so you are exactly right.
You know, you talk--you have talked in the past about a
collusion of dictators. We see exactly that happening here. It
is Russia. It is Raisi. It is Kim Jong-un, and it is President
Xi in China. They are working together across the globe
contrary to American interests, and we have to confront them in
that way.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you. Indeed, American interests,
which is the interest of civilization.
Dr. Jaffer: That is right.
Chairman Wilson: The thought of dictators from whether it
be Assad, Un, or the big three, gosh, what a risk that is to
civilization, and existential, as people are concerned about
issues. With that, we will conclude, except for if anybody--
anyone up here, including Congressman Cohen, who just said he
had one more question. If there any additional questions,
Congressman Cohen.
Representative Cohen: Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As I understand it, Hamas' leader is in Qatar. Then I
understand there is some type of Hamas in Turkey and maybe some
of their leaders there. Can you tell us, where are all these
Hamas people? The ones that are in Turkey, they have like a
store and it says Hamas Turkey, you know, and a brand? Or were
they hiding out in the mountains? What are they doing?
[Laughter.]
Dr. Schanzer: [Laughs.] It is a good question. The Qataris
for the last 10 or 12 years have had an external headquarters.
Some of their political leadership has been based there--Ismail
Haniyeh and Khaled Mashal both call Qatar home. Of course, this
is not new for the Qataris. They have also hosted all manner of
other terrorist organizations in this kind--in that country. It
is the Taliban, Al-Qaida, ISIS. It is well known at this point
that Qatar is a hospitable place. They just do not agree with
our definition of terrorism. Fundraising takes place there. All
sorts of organizational activities take place there. People are
free to come and go. It is a safe haven for them and it is
extremely dangerous that we have bestowed upon that country the
label of major non-NATO ally, and that this is allowed to
continue.
They are offering right now their good offices, I will put
those in air quotes, to try to negotiate the 302 hostages--to
try to negotiate their release. This is not in Qatari's
interest. They are advocating on behalf of Hamas as they have
been for a long time. This should not be allowed to stand.
Similarly, the Turks--the Turks have an office. It is no
storefront. They do not have, you know, in neon lettering, you
know, Hamas Palestinian Resistance since 1988, but there is an
office of probably several dozen people.
These are former fighters. These are fundraisers, and in
fact there was--if you recall the 2014 war between Hamas and
Israel, at the end of the war there was a guy by the name of
Saleh al-Arouri, got up in front of 1,000 people in Istanbul
and announced that Hamas had in fact planned and executed the
kidnapping and murder of three teens in Israel that had sparked
the war. He was received with thunderous applause. The regime
in Turkey is no longer befitting of the label ``NATO ally.''
There is a problem here that we have just held our noses and
allowed for this to continue.
I will even add the Lebanese. There is a--
Audience Member: Excuse me. Excuse me.
Representative Cohen: Excuse me. This is--get her out of
here.
Audience Member: Excuse me.
Representative Cohen: Get out of here. Go home.
Chairman Wilson: Ma'am?
Doctor, please--hey, Doctor, please continue.
Dr. Schanzer: Yes.
In Lebanon, we have a similar problem. We have been funding
the LAF, the Lebanese Armed Forces, while the country has
allowed Hamas to be operating there. You can see the trend.
American allies violating our trust and supporting Hamas. I
think this is an inflection point for the United States.
Representative Cohen: Where--if there are other places
where Hamas leaders are, Israel has the desire to decapitate
the leadership, to take it out. If they are in Qatar and if
they are in Turkey, and other places, I mean, it is going to be
kind of tough to do that, isn't it?
Dr. Schanzer: I would not put it past the Israelis. But
that might be for someone else to talk about. By the way, I
mean, the Israelis have decapitated Hamas leaders that are
active in Malaysia. We have seen that before. I suspect it will
probably continue as Israel seeks to exact justice after the
10/7 slaughter.
Representative Cohen: I am going to ask you a stupid--a
question shows my ignorance on this issue. Who is Hezbollah as
far as there--are the Palestinians? Are they Lebanese? What are
the nationalities, backgrounds of those folk?
Dr. Schanzer: Hezbollah's based in Lebanon primarily,
although they have got a significant base of operations in
Latin America right now. Of course, they have got a lot of
operatives running around in Tehran. They are a wholly owned
subsidiary of the--of the regime in Iran. Just to give you a
sense of the threat, because it right now Hezbollah is
threatening to open up a second front with Israel. While the
fighting rages in Gaza, in the north of Israel there is a
second front that could very well be opened. There have been
dozens of rockets that had been fired, dozens of anti-tank
missiles, infiltrations into northern Israel.
This is very disconcerting. This is one of the things that
I think the president is trying to deter at this moment, to
deter a second front from opening. Hezbollah is considered to
have an army that is equal in strength to the average European
army. It has 150,000 rockets right now facing south at Israel.
It has got precision-guided munitions that could hit strategic
targets, like Israel's nuclear facility or like its chemical
plant. These are things that could create catastrophic attacks.
We could be hours or days or weeks away from watching those
threats materialize. This is why it is imperative right now
that the U.S. mount the deterrence that is necessary to stare
down Iran and to stare down Hezbollah, and to allow Israel to
be able to do what it needs to in Gaza and hopefully end this
crisis.
Representative Cohen: Thank you, sir.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much. Again, to reemphasize
how bipartisan the support is for the people of Ukraine, the
people of Taiwan, the people of Israel, on behalf of Western
civilization, we have Congressman Marc Veasey from Texas.
STATEMENT OF MARC VEASEY, U.S. HOUSE, FROM TEXAS
Representative Veasey: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I
want to thank the panel for being here today. There has been a
lot of--and I know that our European counterparts that we work
with a lot when we travel for Helsinki Committee meetings, they
are going to be focused a lot on humanitarian efforts,
particularly efforts around being able to move people that live
in the--in Gaza into safe areas, you know, as Israel wants to
advance in there to be able to root out Hamas terrorists from
that particular region.
I wanted to ask, I know that other countries have had to
deal with similar issues around humanitarian crisis, and wanted
to make sure that people that are moved into countries, that
they--that the people that they are moving in have not been
people that have been radicalized. It is something that we do
before people come into the United States. We vet people. Can
you sort of explain to us what it would--what vetting would
look like if--because I know that the Egyptians and obviously
Israelis are very concerned about people that may be Hamas
sympathizers, or may even, you know, have been radicalized
themselves and would want to commit violence, would come into
those countries, and so they do not want that.
What does it look like if a--if a Palestinian family of
four is being interviewed for safe passage into a neighboring
country or nearby country? What exactly does that look like?
What does that processing and that vetting look like?
Dr. Schanzer: I am going to make a suggestion here. I do
not know how that kind of vetting can happen. You know, you are
looking at a territory roughly the size of Washington, DC. with
2.2 million people that had been subjected to Hamas rule for 16
years. How you start to figure out who is Okay and who is not
at this stage in the game, who is a threat who is not, that is
going to be really challenging.
I wrote a piece of The Wall Street Journal with a colleague
of mine, Mark Dubowitz, our CEO, on Monday, and I want to make
this suggestion. I have already identified a number of the
countries that have been Hamas supporters over the years, those
that have financed and provided the weapons and the training to
Hamas. I think there should be significant pressure on those
countries to take in the refugees. Have a clear message from
the United States that they created this problem and it is now
their problem to take care of with these 2 million people.
Quite frankly, I do not care who is radicalized when they go to
these countries that have been supporting a radical cause for
as long as they have. I think this would be justice.
Representative Veasey: Yes. Yes, that is interesting. Dr.
Jaffer, do you have anything to?
Dr. Jaffer: I mean, you know, look, the typical way this
vetting works is you take your intelligence sources and
methods, you obtain that information, you combine it with law
enforcement information, and you run these folks through data
bases as best you can. What is probably advisable in this case
is for the Israelis and the Egyptians to work together, if in
fact the route out is through the Rafah Border Crossing and
into Egypt, to share information, share intelligence. We should
provide what information we have that may be derogatory on
these individuals as well.
I think Dr. Schanzer's right. It is going to be a very
difficult challenge. While this vetting is happening, they are
not going to be able to cross into Egypt. That is going to be
one of the challenges. Now, what Israel has done, is to provide
that safe zone and say: Look, if you go south of the Gaza Wadi,
we are going to focus our attacks and our effort to root out
Hamas today, at least for now, on that northern part. This has
got a warning that Hamas did not provide civilians in Israel.
It is also interesting that as Israel is saying, look, Gazans
go south, the Hamas is telling its own civilians: Stay here.
I mean, we knew that Hamas had no regard for Israeli lives
and American lives in Israel. They clearly have no regard for
Palestinian lives in Gaza, because they are telling their own
people to stay there when they know a massive attack is coming.
That is the kind of people we are talking about. We are not
talking about governing entity. We are not talking about a
democratic entity. We are talking about a terrorist group,
plain and simple. One that has been labeled a terrorist group
by our own government for over two decades.
Representative Veasey: Yes. Yes. No, absolutely, and
speaking of the Rafah Crossing, I know that that is going to be
a critical area for humanitarian supplies to come through. What
does it look like making sure that those critical supplies that
are needed, whether it is food, water, medicine, you know, are
not weapons? Because I think that, again, our European allies,
as when we go to these conferences, that is an area that they
are going to be mainly focused on because of, you know, the
optics and what have you that is, you know, an important part
of this cause. We want to make sure that, you know, we do not
become useful idiots to Hamas as they, you know, go on this
campaign to try and annihilate Israel.
Dr. Schanzer: It is going to be a problem. It is going to
be a huge problem. We know that there are, I think, roughly 20
trucks right now waiting to get through. One of them, I noted,
has actually been sent by the Turks. I have already mentioned
what the Turks have been up to in terms of their sponsorship of
Hamas. I would be very careful of that, especially in light of
the fact that just 3 weeks ago there was a news item that I
flagged coming out of the region where a shipment from Turkey
was sent to Gaza. It was supposed to be building materials, and
within those building materials, they discovered tons of
explosive materials.
You know, you have got to vet the countries that are trying
to provide assistance. I do not want nothing from the Qataris
to get in. I want nothing from the Turks to get in. We should
be working with only approved countries that have no ties to
Hamas. That is a first step, but this is not going to be an
easy operation. The other thing I will note is that the
Israelis have said that they are very willing to allow for this
assistance to come in, but they are looking for goodwill from
the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip to release the 203
hostages. The pressure that Israel is feeling right now to
allow for this assistance to come in when they are getting
nothing in return from Hamas I think should be noted by this
Commission.
Representative Veasey: Yes. Mr. Chairman, can I ask one
more question?
Chairman Wilson: Of course.
Representative Veasey: Is there technology set up at that
crossing to be able to do things like scan for materials that
are coming through so it is not something that becomes a huge
log jam there at the border as we are trying to move
humanitarian assistance through?
Dr. Schanzer: Yes, the Israelis have an entire agency. It
is called COGAT, and it is designed to do exactly this, to vet
the things that come through and to scan them. The problem is
that no effort can work 100 percent of the time. This is not a
hermetic seal, and so things do continue to get through that
you do not want. Right now, the stakes are extremely high.
Representative Veasey: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you, Congressman Veasey.
We now go to Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana.
Representative Spartz: Just a brief question. I visited
Middle East not a long time ago, and I wanted to get your
comments on the United Arab Emirates. It seems like they became
a safe haven for Russia and sanctions and really got a lot of
pro-Russian. Pro-Chinese policies developing, which is very
concerning. I wanted to see what would be an effective way to
deal with that, and if you can any comment on UAE.
Dr. Schanzer: Look, the UAE has been, I think, a strong
ally of the United States. Obviously was very heartening to see
the way in which the UAE normalized ties with Israel. It has
been, I think, a model. Not all Emirates are created equal
within the UAE. Abu Dhabi is the capital, and I think there,
the government is onside with U.S. policy. You go to Dubai, it
is a different story. You begin to see that within each of
these jurisdictions there are different illicit finance
concerns and different alliances with various leaders. Dubai,
by the way, is a safe haven for the Iranians as well. There is,
I think, a challenge that the UAE will need to grapple with
probably soon, that it is going to need to figure out how to
homogenize its policies and not to allow for, you know, one
emirate to play arsonist and the other one to play firefighter.
This is, I think, the challenge that awaits the UAE.
Representative Spartz: Thank you.
Chairman Wilson: Thank you very much, Congresswoman Spartz.
We really always appreciate your insight.
With this too, when I came in, Dr. Twining, I was so
pleased you were talking about the axis of dictators, and we
are talking about the Chinese Communist Party, the regime in
Tehran, Putin. It is really personal to me. My dad served in
the Flying Tigers in World War II. He served in Kunming,
Chengdu, Xian. I grew up with a great appreciation of the
people of China. It is really heartbreaking to me to see the
Communist Party oppression of the people in the Communist Party
threats to Taiwan. I just--I am just really hopeful, again,
that we can be preemptive there to create a porcupine for peace
through strength, and then reinforce our dear friends of
Ukraine and Israel.
Additionally, I want to point out that Dr. Schanzer has
been understating so much. He is being very clear in his
statements, but I would like to read the Hamas covenant. People
need to know, article seven, and it was August the 18, 1988.
Our enemies are really clear, Okay? Osama bin Laden said he was
going to attack the United States in 1999. We know that Putin
has said in August 2021 that Ukraine did not exist. We know
that we have--and the parliament in Tehran chants of ``Death to
America.'' ``Death to Israel,'' in English. They are all so
helpful to let us know these things, and, indeed, how many
threats has Beijing made to Taipei?
With all of that in mind, of all the declarations I have
seen in my life I have never seen one so clear, but--and
horrific. It is article seven of the Hamas covenant. Quote,
``The day of judgment will not come about until Muslims fight
Jews and kill them. Then the Jews will hide behind rocks and
trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out, oh Muslim, there
is a Jew hiding behind me. Come and kill him,'' end of quote.
We are not talking about territorial acquisition. It is not
Palestine. It is not a geographic area. It is not Gaza. It is
not West Bank. This--what better explanation of just barbaric
heinous hatred is--and people need to read the Hamas covenant.
I am going to do my best so long as I can to let people know
what a threat this is.
As we conclude, I would like to get a picture with the
three of you, if you would come stand behind us, because you
look really good. [Laughter.] I would like also our staff
people even to be in the picture. So with this, we are
adjourned. [Sounds gavel.]
[Whereupon, at 3:44 p.m., the hearing ended.]
[all]