[Joint House and Senate Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                REVIEWING THE DIGITAL G.I. BILL PROGRAM

=======================================================================

                             JOINT HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                                AND THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                        THURSDAY, JULY 13, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-25

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABL IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                              __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
53-109 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                   
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                                 ------                                

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                 DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                                     DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
                                 ------                                

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

              MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
KEITH SELF, Texas                        Florida, Ranking Member
                                     GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        THURSDAY, JULY 13, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman, Subcommittee On 
  Economic Opportunity...........................................     1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member, Subcommittee On 
  Economic Opportunity...........................................     3
The Honorable Matthew M. Rosendale, Sr., Chairman, Subcommittee 
  on Technology Modernization....................................     4
The Honorable Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, Ranking Member, 
  Subcommittee on Technology Modernization.......................     5

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Joseph Garcia, Executive Director, Education Service, 
  Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. Department of Veteran 
  Affairs........................................................     6

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. Robert Orifici, Benefits and Memorial Services Portfolio 
        Director, Office of Information and Technology, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

Mr. Troy Mueller, Senior Advisor and Department Head, Veterans 
  Benefits Administration Mission, MITRE.........................     8

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. David Powner, Executive Director, Center for Data-Driven 
        Policy, MITRE

Mr. Kyle Michl, DGIB Senior Delivery and Chief Innovation 
  Officer, Accenture Federal Services............................    10

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Joseph Garcia Prepared Statement.............................    33
Mr. Troy Mueller Prepared Statement..............................    39
Mr. Kyle Michl Prepared Statement................................    40

 
                REVIEWING THE DIGITAL G.I. BILL PROGRAM

                              ----------                              


                        THURSDAY, JULY 13, 2023

             U.S. House of Representatives,
              Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
          Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 1 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden 
[chairman of the subcommittee on Economic Opportunity] 
presiding.
    Present from the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity: 
Representatives Van Orden, Mace, Levin, Mrvan, McGarvey, and 
Ramirez.
    Present from the Subcommittee on Technology Modernization: 
Representatives Rosendale, Mace, Self, Cherfilus-McCormick, and 
Landsman.

OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE 
                    ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

    Mr. Van Orden. Good afternoon. The joint oversight hearing 
of the Subcommittee of Economic Opportunity and the 
Subcommittee on Technology and Modernization will now come to 
order.
    As you have heard me say many times, these subcommittees 
are not bipartisan, they are nonpartisan. I am very proud of my 
Democrat colleagues and also my Republican colleagues to 
adhering to that. There is no room for that in this committee 
and it will not be tolerated.
    Today, we have come together once again to look out for the 
interest of our veterans. Our veterans fought hard for this 
country, and we owe it to them to fight hard for their 
interests here in Congress. Today, our subcommittees come 
together to once again examine how we can work with the U.S. 
Department of Veterans Affairs to improve the lives of veterans 
through the Digital G.I. Bill--good afternoon, sir. The Digital 
G.I. Bill is intended to streamline G.I. Bill claims processing 
by consolidating antiquated legacy IT systems and automating 
adjudication of most claims. Some of these systems are over 
thirty years old and must be modernized.
    Since our last hearing in July 2022, VA has accomplished 
quite a bit. There have been five releases of the software. 
More than half of the supplemental claims are now automated and 
the Enrollment Manager system is now up and running. This is 
good news and shows a tremendous amount of progress. However, 
the Digital G.I. Bill system that is being developed by VA and 
Accenture is partly the result of past IT failures. Other 
companies have attempted to modernize. The systems have failed 
and the VA has wasted millions of dollars. We are here to 
ensure that this does not happen again.
    In March I received a call from the secretary about the 
Digital G.I. Bill failing to process veterans' monthly housing 
allowance. The Benefits Delivery Network (BDN) initially failed 
to pay approximately 282,000 student veterans. While these 
issues were resolved nearly immediately, there are still 4,000 
veterans that received late checks due to this mistake. This 
problem is reminiscent of 2018 when a similar failure resulted 
in thousands of students waiting weeks and months in some cases 
for the claim to be processed, which led to significant delays 
in students receiving their monthly housing allowance. Time and 
time again, student veterans are being left in limbo because of 
the VA's failures, and that is completely unacceptable.
    Also in March the new Enrollment Manager system went live. 
VA had insisted the launch in January at the beginning of the 
spring semester despite an outpouring of concern from the 
schools about the problems that this would cause. That means 
you people are not listening. The subcommittee was eventually 
able to persuade the VA to listen to the boots on the ground 
and push the go live back, set off the demo, effect delays in 
the development of the system that no one has ever adequately 
explained. I am going to say this again, you are not listening. 
You are trying to run things from Washington, DC. and you are 
just not listening. That is no way to run a railroad and we are 
stopping that today.
    It is my understanding that the next Digital G.I. Bill 
release has been stalled for several months as VA takes a step 
back to reevaluate the schedule and revise the cost estimates 
because of the Enrollment Manager release jobs program. That is 
what you are running. We must get a handle on these delays, 
motivate you--it is not the VA, it is you--to keep this project 
on track. Up to this point, it has been like pulling teeth to 
figure out how much money has been spent. I think we got this 
what, last night? You guys knew this hearing was coming a long 
time ago and we got this sheet last night. Okay, no. Junk. We 
need to figure out how much this is costing in a timely manner 
so we can make the appropriate decisions. No one can tell us 
when the project is going to be final. That, again, is 
unacceptable. Cannot even get an answer when you are going to 
do the next release.
    We are here today to get these questions answered and I 
want them answered. I do not want the I am going to get back to 
you later, and then we are going to send you a note and my 
people will call you. I want the answers today. If you are not 
willing or able to answer them, then you are incompetent. I do 
not want to come to having to subpoena you, but we are in the 
majority and I will do so because you are not serving our 
veterans appropriately for some reason, and I want to know what 
that reason is today.
    As I said, we have a fantastic relationship together on 
this committee in a nonpartisan manner. Today, we are going to 
vote it at 13:30. That is 1:30 for you civilians. We may have 
to briefly recess. If you think we are not pushing this today, 
you are wrong.
    With that, I will yield to my friend and distinguished 
Member of Congress, Mr. Levin, the ranking member of this 
subcommittee.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE 
                    ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

    Mr. Levin. I thank my friend, Chairman Van Orden, thank 
Chairman Rosendale as well. I am grateful for the opportunity 
to work with you guys on important legislation to help our 
veterans. Thank Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick as well for 
making this happen today.
    In November 2019, I went to Muskogee, Oklahoma, and I 
wanted to go see why it was taking so long for progress to be 
made on how G.I. Bill benefits and other information was being 
processed and went and had some really good barbecue as well in 
Muskogee. What I saw with regard to G.I. Bill technology was 
frankly pretty shocking. I saw systems that were being held 
together with you know, 40, 50 year old technology, Common 
Business-Oriented Language (COBOL) was being used in one of the 
systems. Frankly, it was miraculous that the good people there 
who were working really hard, were able to make any of it work. 
Even really simple things, like changing an address, proved 
extraordinarily difficult when you had multiple systems 
running. Seeing systems that are decades old barely being held 
together, really was deeply frustrating. I remember the 
conversations I had back then about the money that would be 
needed in order to repair things and to get things up to some 
semblance of modern technology. We largely have delivered on 
what was asked of us in the Congress. We have come through on 
those requests. Bipartisan as well. You know, this was from the 
Trump administration now on through to the Biden 
administration.
    It is so important that we get this right. These processors 
there in Muskogee in a converted grocery store are responsible 
for distributing nearly $12 billion annually in veteran 
education benefits. This dysfunction has been really hard on VA 
staff, but also on student veterans, on educators, on school 
certifying officials.
    I was very pleased that in March 2021, VA awarded the 
contract to Accenture to support the Digital G.I. Bill project 
to create a more user-friendly platform for students and 
institutions enrolled in VA educational assistance programs, as 
well as those administering those programs. We have to unite 
all these legacy systems, scores of legacy systems, bringing 
together activities like payments, enrollments, oversight, at 
higher functioning levels--at any functional level, to be 
honest with you. It is a multi-year effort, and it is planned 
to take place over many increments, and I understand that that 
can be frustrating too, but there needs to be a progress. That 
is the key.
    One year ago, our two subcommittees came together for an 
update on Accenture's work, and the takeaways were pretty 
positive. Improvements were being made, program incurrence were 
for the most part on schedule. In preparation for today's 
hearing, we asked largely the same questions. The news is still 
relatively positive. This summer VA through Accenture released 
something called Enrollment Manager, which replaced a legacy 
system called VA Once. This is designed to improve the user 
experience for school certifying officials, make it easier for 
them to access student records, make it easier and faster for 
institutions to exchange data and documents with VA. There are 
six more releases is my understanding, planned through 2024, 
all designed to make the experience better for the employees 
and for the veterans alike. However, there is absolutely a need 
to review the Digital G.I. Bill contract and the upcoming 
release timelines to ensure both VA and Accenture are on the 
same page for the releases.
    Here is the deal, Congress can pass all the laws that we 
want to pass. If we want to truly strengthen these benefits, if 
we want to truly make this system work the way it is supposed 
to work, we have got to make sure VA has the capacity to 
efficiently deliver those benefits. If we do not do that, we 
are just missing the point, and we are failing the veterans 
that we are serving and the families that we are serving.
    I think we are all committed here to doing everything that 
we can collectively to make sure that is the case, to make sure 
that you guys are on track, and we are going to do all we can 
to hold you accountable to that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, sir.
    I would now like to yield to the Technology Modernization 
(TM) subcommittee chair, Mr. Rosendale. There you are. How are 
you doing, pal? You all right.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., CHAIRMAN, 
            SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    The G.I. Bill is one of the most successful government 
programs in history. The educational benefits in the G.I. Bill 
are often credited with helping create the American middle 
class of the 20th century. Not only that, it is the rare 
government program that has consistently generated hundreds of 
billions of economic growth for tens of billions of dollars 
spent, decade after decade. Congress took big steps to enhance 
the program with the post-9/11 G.I. Bill and the Forever G.I. 
Bill. Now it is critical that we modernize how it operates with 
the Digital G.I. Bill.
    It is hard to believe just how antiquated and complicated 
the information technology systems are that the VA staff use to 
process G.I. Bill applications. As we have seen many times, 
these IT systems are impeding service delivery to our veterans 
rather than improving it. The Digital G.I. Bill (DGIB) project 
began in 2021 and a year ago, the effort was making rapid 
progress. It was releasing new functionality every few months, 
boosting automation, and starting to phaseout legacy systems. 
DGIB is one of the most successful examples of implementing a 
system as a managed service. It was also the lowest cost of all 
the VA's major IT modernization programs. This was an 
encouraging contrast to the expensive failures we have been 
seeing elsewhere.
    Unfortunately, that progress has stalled. Since the fifth 
DGIB release earlier this year, the VA has been stuck in an 
opaque process to revise its schedule and reshuffle the 
subsequent releases. There is still no date for the sixth 
release as the months slip by. Unfortunately, explanations from 
the VA and the contractors have been convoluted and 
contradictory. We are seeing everybody at this table pointing 
fingers at each other. That is the expectation that I have 
today and that is what we are going to try to sort through--
sort that spaghetti out.
    We have to get the Digital G.I. Bill back on track. The 
most difficult and important milestones for the project are yet 
to come. We need to know what percentage of original claims the 
system will be able to automate. We also need to know whether 
Accenture will be able to retire the benefits delivery network. 
VA and contractors still need to demonstrate whether the 
managed service is less expensive to operate than the hodge 
podge of legacy systems. Finally, we need to know how much DGIB 
will ultimately cost. MITRE's initial 10-year estimate was 
between $1.3 and $1.9 billion dollars. We have heard of a 
window, ok, of range of costs. That is an enormous window. 
Getting any information about costs since then has been 
extremely difficult. All we know is that the cost estimate 
seems to be moving in the wrong direction.
    I am pleased to see the Digital G.I. Bill has accomplished 
more in 2 years than any other VA IT project that I have seen. 
Today, it is stumbling. I believe the concept remains sound, 
but the bureaucracy managing the project is floundering. We 
expect better.
    I want to thank our witnesses for appearing today to give 
veterans and taxpayers an update on this important program. I 
look forward to finding out some of these answers so the 
Digital G.I. Bill can move forward.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I will yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I will now yield to the ranking member of the Subcommittee 
on Technology and Modernization, a wonderful friend of mine, 
Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, RANKING 
        MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden, and 
thank you, Chairman Rosendale for holding this hearing. Thank 
you to all our witnesses for being here today.
    We have a lot of ground to cover and a lot of opening 
comments to hear. I will keep my remarks short.
    G.I. bill education benefits are a key recruiting tool for 
our military, especially at a time when the Department of 
Defense (DoD) is struggling to meet its recruiting goals. It is 
in our Nation's interest that we ensure that this benefit 
continues to be an incentive to military service by ensuring 
the program's future stability.
    G.I. Bill benefits are also crucial to easing service 
members' transition out of the military and into private sector 
jobs that support the veterans and their families upon 
completion of their service. While the G.I. Bill has been a 
prime example of a successful benefit program for decades, it 
has historically been frustratingly slow to apply for and 
receive. The old paper process left veterans waiting weeks and 
months for approval to start classes, frequently making them 
miss registration deadlines and postponing their start of their 
education. I am heartened to hear that this is improving, but 
it seems we still have a lot of work to do.
    VA's recent efforts to modernize the system used by managed 
education benefits have been a shining example of how IT 
modernization should happen. Much so it has left us wondering 
why education services is able to do this and other parts of 
the VA cannot. Is there a way that we can share the lessons 
learned from this program with the rest of VA to improve the 
implementation of IT systems across the organization? It is not 
often that the TM Subcommittee gets the opportunity to hear 
from an IT modernization program that seems to be going well, 
but we are starting to hear about delays with the 
implementation.
    I hope to hear today how VA plans to overcome these 
roadblocks and push the program forward. We cannot allow this 
program to go the way of other IT modernization efforts.
    I look forward to today's conversation, and I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, ma'am.
    Allow me to introduce our witness panel.
    Our first witness is Mr. Joseph Garcia, the executive 
director of education services of the Department of Veterans 
Affairs. Mr. Garcia is accompanied by Mr. Robert--I am going to 
slaughter your name, sir. Please.
    Mr. Orifici. Orifici.
    Mr. Van Orden. Orifici?
    Mr. Orifici. Orifici.
    Mr. Van Orden. Orifici. Ok.
    Mr. Orifici. Yes.
    Mr. Van Orden. Orifici. Gotcha. I want to pay the 
appropriate amount of respect by pronouncing your name 
properly, Mr. Orifici--the benefits and memorial service 
portfolio director. Our second witness is Mr. Troy Mueller, 
senior advisor, and department head at M-I-T-R-E, MITRE, and is 
accompanied by Mr. Dave Powner, Center for Data Driven Policy 
at the same company. Our third witness is Mr. Kyle Michl.
    Mr. Michl. Michl, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. This is not working out today. I apologize, 
man. I was much better at this, Mr. Michl, because we met the 
other day. Digital G.I. Bill senior delivery and chief 
innovation officer at Accenture Federal Services (AFS).
    [Witnesses sworn]
    Thank you and let the record reflect that witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Garcia, you are now recognized for 5 
minutes. Just to be super clear, I mean, some of you have been 
here before, that clock is 5 minutes. That is exactly as long 
as you will be talking. Same thing up here.
    You are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your 
testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

                   STATEMENT OF JOSEPH GARCIA

    Mr. Garcia. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Chairman 
Rosendale, Ranking Members Levin and Cherfilus-McCormick, and 
other members of the subcommittees.
    Thank you for the opportunity to discuss the Digital G.I. 
Bill program and the continued system improvements and 
upgrades. Joining me today is Robert Orifici from VA's Office 
of Information and Technology.
    To ensure VA effectively serves veterans and their 
families, seeking to use their G.I. Bill benefits, VA is 
modernizing the G.I. Bill's IT platform to deliver benefits 
faster and enhance customer experience. On March 11, 2021, VA 
awarded a managed service contract to Accenture Federal 
Services to develop the DGIB. This enterprise service platform 
gives G.I. Bill students the ability to engage with VA and 
their earned benefits through electronic outreach, intake, and 
enhanced communication tools. Since inception, VA has deployed 
numerous major releases. In just 6 months, VA marked its first 
major milestone by deploying the processing of post-9/11 G.I. 
Bill claims into the managed service. The managed service 
allows for agile decision making in a single managed platform 
that grows with VA's needs and responds to changes in 
technology through continuous end-to-end updates. For the first 
time since the inception of the G.I. Bill program, applicants 
can receive a same day education benefits eligibility decision. 
DGIB now provides veterans the ability to download and view 
digital copies of their certificate of eligibility, no longer 
waiting up for 5 days for a paper copy.
    We contacted the first veteran who used the automated 
system. This veteran expressed that she appreciates the efforts 
VA has made to ease the process for veterans. She told friends 
who are getting out how easy the process was to apply for the 
post-9/11 G.I. Bill and encouraged them to apply for classes. 
She hopes that more veterans will utilize this benefit in the 
future. Her thoughts validate the goal of the Digital G.I. Bill 
program, better support for veterans pursuing their educational 
goals, modernize the tools for them, and those that support the 
veterans.
    In the most recent major release in March 2023, VA deployed 
Enrollment Manager to help School Certifying Officials, SCOs, 
submit enrollments faster. In only 4 months, VA surpassed 1.4 
million enrollment certifications. Over 15,000 SCOs from over 
11,000 institutions are now using Enrollment Manager. One 
school certifying official shared with me personally that 
Enrollment Manager does not have the same constraints as the 
legacy system. Before, an SCO had to wait a day to make changes 
to a certification to make sure certifications did not get 
processed out of order, but now SCOs can finish a task in a 
couple of minutes that previously would have taken multiple 
days. Enrollment Manager speeds up the certification process, 
which in turn allows SCOs to have more time with their veteran 
students.
    Implementing a managed service and improving automation 
involves integrating numerous complex IT systems and 
decommissioning decades old legacy systems. VA acknowledges 
several challenges during this transition, such as the March 
2023 issue with monthly housing allowance payments. Although 
electronic funds transfer payments were received on the same 
day, there were lessons learned and lessons applied, including 
enhanced monitoring and reporting.
    VA also started a manage services assessment to develop a 
comprehensive risk matrix to ensure mitigation needs and 
promote best practices across the business lines.
    VA is committed to ensuring the continuous improvement of 
the DGIB program, as well as effective stewardship of taxpayer 
resources. VA is working with AFS on a bilateral modification 
to the current contract to meet emergent requirements, clarify 
testing capabilities, and to add additional integrations to 
other VA systems.
    Chairmen and ranking members, VA has made tremendous 
strides in the administration of education benefits and 
appreciates support of Congress as we work through the 
challenges and continue our efforts to modernize educational 
assistance programs.
    This concludes my testimony. My colleague and I look 
forward to answering any questions the committee may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Joseph Garcia Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
    The written statement of Mr. Garcia will be entered in the 
hearing record.
    Mr. Mueller, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
Deliver your testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF TROY MUELLER

    Mr. Mueller. Chairmen Van Orden, Rosendale, ranking member, 
Cherfilus-McCormick, Levin and other members of the 
subcommittees, thank you for the opportunity to testify before 
you today on the Department of Veterans Affairs Digital G.I. 
Bill program.
    Successful modernization of IT is critical to improving the 
veteran experience. MITRE very much appreciates the opportunity 
to share our insights on this work. MITRE is a not for profit 
corporation chartered to operate in the public interest, which 
includes operating six federally funded research and 
development centers, or FFRDCs. The Center for Enterprise 
Modernization, where I am a department head, was established in 
1998 by the Department of Treasury and is now jointly sponsored 
the Department of Veterans Affairs, Commerce, and the Social 
Security Administration. My department is responsible for 
supporting the modernization of benefits and service delivery 
across all Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) lines of 
business.
    As an Air Force veteran, I know firsthand that serving in 
the military opens the door to many benefits, including the 
life changing opportunity to access higher education. Education 
benefits span those entering the service through officer 
training programs, tuition assistance, and fully funded degree 
programs while on active duty, and the G.I. Bill and other 
education programs for veterans and their families. I myself 
have benefited from each of these programs. I received an Air 
Force Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC) scholarship for 
college, I completed my masters under tuition assistance, and 
was able to earn a doctorate utilizing the post-9/11 G.I. bill. 
If not for these benefits, I would not be here before you 
today. Supporting the VA, it is not merely an assignment or a 
job. It is personal. It is my way of giving back for the things 
I have received.
    MITRE has been a partner with Education Service since 2008, 
supporting the implementation of the post-9/11 G.I. Bill, and 
again in 2019 to chart the path forward for modernizing claims 
processing and customer service. MITRE is currently working 
with the program management office in the areas of systems 
engineering, program integration, life cycle cost estimating, 
and organizational change. Over the past 3 plus years, the 
program has had many accomplishments delivering major releases 
of capability. Additionally, the VA has demonstrated gains and 
maturity regarding program governance, execution, and decision 
making as demonstrated by their taking action on 
recommendations of the 2108 independent technical assessment of 
the Colmery Act implementation.
    Programs of this size and complexity intended to modernize 
an environment of multiple legacy systems with numerous 
dependencies and an enterprise that includes parallel 
modernization efforts are never without risk. VBA, to its 
credit, is currently conducting a strategic review of this 
program as part of an effort to identify and evaluate 
opportunities to improve delivery of benefits and services. The 
outcome of the review will position the VA to maintain a rhythm 
of capability delivery while ensuring good stewardship of 
taxpayer dollars.
    Recognizing that there will always be challenges, 
complexity, and risk, I have two recommendations to share with 
you today. The first is to encourage the VA to continue to 
mature its contracting and program management capabilities and 
ensure proper allocation and alignment of resources with 
demonstrated knowledge, skills, and experience to appropriate 
programs and projects. A contracting officer with extensive 
experience procuring commodities is not the same as one who has 
worked on and led development and execution of exquisite 
acquisition strategies for large, complex, transformational 
programs. The same can be said of program managers. Both are 
scarce resources that require agencies to be deliberate about 
career development and assignments.
    The second recommendation is for the House Committee on 
Veterans' Affairs and Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs to 
continue the direct monthly engagement of their staff with 
education service. The meeting which started during the Colmery 
Act implementation has become a critical part of the battle 
rhythm of program, just as important as program increment 
planning sessions or a governance meetings. From our vantage 
point, these monthly engagements promote transparency, provide 
the opportunity for dialog, and contribute to the momentum of 
risk and issue identification, mitigation, and decision making 
on the program.
    In closing, let me just note that of MITRE's roughly 10,000 
personnel, over 1,600 are veterans. There are few duties that 
our employees consider more noble and consequential than 
honoring through our support to the VA the service and 
sacrifice of our Nation's men and women in uniform.
    On behalf of the entire MITRE team, I greatly appreciate 
the opportunity to come before you today and look forward to 
your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Troy Mueller Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Mueller's written testimony now be entered into the 
record. Mr. Michl, I now recognize you for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF KYLE MICHL

    Mr. Michl. Thank you, sir.
    Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden, Chairman Rosendale, 
Ranking Member Levin, Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick, and 
members of the Subcommittees on Economic Opportunity and 
Technology Modernization. Thank you for inviting me to testify 
about our efforts in service of VA's Digital G.I. Bill delivery 
program.
    I am Kyle Michl, the senior delivery lead for the program 
and the chief innovation officer at Accenture Federal Services.
    Accenture Federal has a longstanding partnership with the 
VA on programs that deliver meaningful outcomes for 
beneficiaries, including veterans, service members and their 
families. Since March 2021, Accenture Federal has been working 
with the VA to streamline educational claims processing by 
creating simple, efficient digital experiences to help veterans 
and their families complete their educational journeys. I would 
like to share with you a few examples of how the program is 
serving veterans through continuous delivery of meaningful 
outcomes.
    VA and Accenture Federal have delivered major releases, as 
well as a number of smaller agile releases to our platform. 
These releases are aimed at driving automation and improving 
time to receipt of benefits. Together, VA and Accenture Federal 
have made significant strides in areas including user 
experience, service enhancements, program insights, and 
processing efficiencies. A number of the release highlights 
include providing intuitive user experiences and rapid 
decisions for eligible first-time beneficiaries. We deliver new 
intuitive designs and updated functions for beneficiaries 
applying for Post-9/11 G.I. Bill benefits. Improvements such as 
pre-filled service history function make applications for Post-
9/11 G.I. Bill benefits easier. We have reduced eligibility 
processing from 30 days down to a matter of minutes and 
provided the ability to receive digital copies of decision 
letters.
    The G.I. Bill has been assisting veterans for nearly 79 
years. Now through automation, we are helping applicants start 
their educational journeys faster than ever.
    We are also providing schools modernized claims 
capabilities. School certifying officials, or SCOs, are the 
front door for veterans to continue and complete their 
educational goals. To better serve the SCOs, we introduced 
Enrollment Manager which streamlines the process to submit 
enrollments for students. More than 15,000 SCOs have accessed 
Enrollment Manager since launch and the new system has reduced 
the number of steps to enter in a new enrollment to as few as 
five clicks. Already more than 1.4 million enrollments have 
been submitted. Most importantly, SCOs now have more time to 
focus on what matters most, helping veterans, service members, 
and their families meet and exceed their educational goals.
    Last, modernizing legacy systems. With streamlined VA 
processes and our new technology platform, we have achieved a 
99.99 percent system availability rate for claims processing. 
We are also helping VA decommission antiquated legacy IT 
systems to improve the speed and accuracy of its educational 
claims processes. We have retired two of the three legacy 
systems and have exceeded DGIB's 3-year IT infrastructure 
reduction targets.
    Now, large complex programs have enormous dependencies both 
within and external to the program. Recognizing this, VA and 
Accenture Federal have established governance processes to 
quickly identify risks and assess impacts. Together, VA and 
Accenture Federal have continued to make progress on DGIB 
milestones, while jointly working through options to address 
gaps in dependencies. We are actively engaged with VA to re-
plan future releases to outline potential options for a path 
forward, while continuing to fulfill program commitments. Our 
partnership with VA can continue to provide world class 
modernized services to veteran beneficiaries. We can do this by 
deploying future capabilities like approval manager, workload 
manager, and benefits manager, which will replace aging legacy 
systems with modern technologies and digital experiences.
    In conclusion, we remain steadfast in our commitment to 
make a dramatic difference in the lives of hundreds of 
thousands of veterans, service members, and their families. 
Through the use of innovative technologies, we are 
strengthening the foundation that provides agile rapid 
deployments, improved automation, and enhanced data insight. We 
are proud to help the VA bring to life its truly bold DGIB 
vision and to focus on delivering the best outcomes for 
veterans and for the American taxpayer.
    Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kyle Michl Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Michl, thank you very much for your 
testimony.
    Your written statement will be now entered into the record. 
The subcommittee will now recess so that the members can go 
vote and we expect to return 10 minutes following the last 
vote. Mr. Garcia, I recommend that you bring a lunch. Okay?
    [Recess]
    Mr. Van Orden. The subcommittee will come to order.
    We are going to proceed to questions and I am going to ask 
members and witnesses to respect the 5 minute rule. I talked 
about that earlier, so I am not asking anymore, I am telling 
you. I will hold myself accountable to the same timeline.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garcia, can you give us a date when the Digital G.I. 
Bill project will resume and when the release six is scheduled?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. Thank you for that question.
    We are going through a contact modification with AFS.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Garcia, I am going to be short with you.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. I expect you to be short with me. I asked 
you for a date and not a process. They have got this thing that 
is called the calendar, and I want you to be able to put your 
finger on it and tell me a date. Can you do that?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, yes. The release six is Enterprise 
Management Payment Workload and Reporting (eMPWR). That is the 
next major release. That is the financial system update within 
BDN.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Garcia, that as a process, not a date? I 
am asking you a very clear question, what date? Put your finger 
on a calendar and let us stop this buffoonery.
    Mr. Garcia. Summer of 24 for release six.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. That is a season, not a date, Mr. 
Garcia. What is the date that this will be released?
    Mr. Garcia. I cannot give you a date beyond that.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. That is unacceptable. Mr. Garcia, do 
you read the newspaper? Do you read the newspaper?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. Everyday.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Do you remember that article that came 
out that said Visa went out of business? No, because you did 
not read it because it did not happen. It did not happen 
because Visa is a company and it is predicated on merit. If 
Visa all of a sudden could not process over 200,000 of their 
bills, and then eventually, what, 4,000 at some point, what 
would happen to the person that was responsible at Visa in 
about, I do not know, 6 minutes? What would happen to that 
person, Mr. Garcia? Could you posit it? They would be fired. 
They would be kicked to the curb because they were not serving 
their customers. You use that word when you are speaking about 
my fellow veterans, you call them customers. The person at 
Visa, if they failed objectively, like you have--because it is 
not the VA, man, you are the VA. It says it right there--if 
they failed like that, they would be fired. Why are you still 
getting a paycheck? Can you answer that question, Mr. Garcia? 
Should you be held to the same standard as a civilian company 
that is processing things that you buy at Walmart when you are 
talking about the lives of veterans? I have gone through every 
single education program that you have, Mr. Mueller, all of 
them. You, Mr. Garcia, need to justify to us why you are 
getting a paycheck. Can you do that, sir?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. I would like to do that.
    Mr. Van Orden. Hit it. I am going to give you 50 seconds. I 
want 1 minute to close. Hit it. You are on.
    Mr. Garcia. I started on 1 August 2022.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Garcia. Veteran Rapid Retraining Assistance Program 
(VRRAP), right, was at 54 percent obligation in August 22. 
Through my efforts--Mr. Levin can recognize this--by December 
when the program ended with a 99 percent. I do not call that 
failure, sir, I call that supporting the veteran. As I was a 
student veteran, I would not be here with the G.I. Bill. Eight 
years enlisted time, got out, finished my program, getting the 
G.I. Bill. Customers are important to me. Higher ed, I was in 
higher ed 10 years before I came to this position. I know SCOs, 
sir. I listened to them.
    The successful roll-out of Enrollment Manager, because I 
put a priority on it. I know the SCOs. They used to work for 
me. I listen to them. As I listen to veterans as well.
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well.
    Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
    Here is the problem. Are you confident, Mr. Garcia--can you 
please tell me again what percentage of original claims you 
have automated last month?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, varies by date--by day----
    Mr. Van Orden. Percentage of claims you have automated last 
month. Can you answer that question, sir?
    Mr. Garcia. In the 15 to 20 percent range because it varies 
by day.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. That is a 20 percent variance, and 
that is unacceptable, Mr. Garcia.
    You have to understand that the reason that these things 
are not working is because we have the VA, which is a group and 
agency, and we have processes. We do not have people. That does 
not fly. Mr. Garcia, I am holding you personally accountable 
for this, personally accountable for this.
    I want to say one more thing my--and time as expired. I 
will get you in the second round. I yield back. I now recognize 
the ranking member, Mr. Levin, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. I thank the chairman. I would like to associate 
myself with the chairman's request for specific timeline. In 
fact, in my open, I had mentioned, I think, six additional 
releases. I see in the majority's timeline here, release six, 
seven, eight, nine. I think there are a ten, eleven, and a 
twelve. It would be very helpful to us. I appreciate all the 
work, obviously, that you are doing, but it would be very 
helpful to us that to be able to put specific dates against 
those releases and then be able to measure over time and make 
sure that those dates are being hit.
    I Wanted to follow up also on the chairman's question about 
automation. In your testimony, I saw current percentage of 
57.38. How do you explain that it is not higher than that after 
the time that you have had? How are we going to get from 57.38 
to 70, 80, 90? What do you need to make that happen?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, when the program started, we were at 
around the 35, 37 percent range. We are pushing 60 percent, so 
that is an increase of 25 percent.
    One of the things that we are working on, for example, is 
with DoD on the system called VA DOD Identity Repository 
(VADIR). It is what comes over from the Pentagon into our 
system. We have been having good progress meetings lately over 
the last several months to make sure that information that came 
here was accurate. We do not want to put in an automated system 
inaccurate information that creates inaccurate payments, right. 
The off ramping that occurs from automation is when the data is 
not accurate coming in. We are making progress with DoD.
    Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. Unfortunately, we have 
limited time.
    Can I get your commitment that you will give us a date 
certain or at least an estimated date certain of when we can 
get to hit 70, 80, 90, 100 percent? Can you give us that table?
    Mr. Garcia. We progress----
    Mr. Levin. That is pretty simple, yes or no.
    Mr. Garcia. We are committed to higher automation and 
originals and supplementals, yes, sir.
    Mr. Levin. You cannot give us a specific timetable on when 
you are going to be able to hit those higher numbers?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, it depends on the off ramping.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. Can you give us a specific timeline that 
fills in some of the blanks of this chart when you are going to 
hit release six, seven, eight, nine, and so forth?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, it does depend on the contract 
modification. We have got to get through that and that in turn 
would set the new schedule. We can say, release six is in the 
summer timeframe.
    Mr. Levin. Sir, I am trying to work with you here. I think 
it would be very helpful to everybody on this committee if you 
would at least commit to giving us some specifics with regard 
to dates and times as it pertains to releases and as it 
pertains to the automation frame work. Can you commit to that?
    Mr. Garcia. In the best that I can, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. Well, our staff will be following up with 
yours, but I think it really would be helpful for us to 
understand how these investments are being implemented and how 
these metrics are being achieved.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Levin. In March, hundreds of thousands of veterans were 
at risk of not receiving their housing payments due to a 
processing failure tied to Digital G.I. Bill release five.
    Mr. Garcia, I will start with you, and I want to give time 
for Mr. Michl as well. What steps are you now taking in light 
of that failure to ensure the future releases do not cause 
similar unforeseen errors?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. There was a dependency that was 
created for the BDN system to be online and the system did not 
catch the dependency of when that occurred. The system just 
froze, the payment queue did not go forward. We immediately 
responded to that. Payments did go out for 278,000 Electronic 
Funds Transfer (EFT) recipients, 4,000 paper checks went out 
the next day. We fixed that problem with AFS. We now have 
robust monitoring that occurs every month. I get daily inputs 
that last week, that tracks across the cycle, payment queue, 
payment run, and we have full confidence that will not happen 
again.
    Mr. Levin. That is good to hear.
    Mr. Michl, anything you would like to add?
    Mr. Michl. I would say we certainly recognize that there 
was an issue there and worked together quickly to make sure 
that we got payments out that very same day, and payments out 
overall in the timeframe which typically go out.
    With regards to making sure that this does not occur in the 
future, we have certainly put a number of processes in place to 
look at functional counts and share that with the broader 
stakeholder community to make sure that we have full and 
complete visibility to any issues that may occur, and make sure 
that we have the opportunity to address issues as they arise.
    Mr. Levin. I appreciate that. That is certainly all on the 
record now. We are going to hold you to it.
    Again, as I said at the outset, I think there were so many 
problems with G.I. Bill technology, and it is encouraging to 
hear of your progress, but help us say nice things about your 
work by providing us with specifics, specific dates, specific 
progress that you are making, and I think that would go a long 
way.
    I will yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
    I now recognize Mr. Mrvan from Indiana for 5 minutes, sir.
    Mr. Mrvan. Mr. Garcia, considering the VA's history of 
budget overruns in IT projects, what concrete actions are being 
taken to prevent excessive spending and ensure that the Digital 
G.I. Bill modernization efforts stay within budget?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, I would say two quick points. The 
governance structure that we have has become more robust over 
time. We have the right leadership in place for the executive 
steering committee, for example. On a day to day basis, we have 
program governance that I help lead with my partners at this 
table. Governance have been improved. We are also standing up--
or increasing the Project Management Office (PMO) that works 
directly for me. It has been in place, but we are adding more 
Full Time Equivalents (FTEs) and more capability to it, 
partnering with MITRE at the table as well. I think improved 
governance and the PMO office that helps with that program 
oversight, including the budget part of it, is how we are doing 
that.
    Mr. Mrvan. One of the pieces of legislation that I have 
proposed is an acquisition review board that would allow for 
the ability to look at projects as they are being enacted, as 
they are being instituted. What is your opinion of that?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir what was the term called again?
    Mr. Mrvan. It is an Acquisition Review Board.
    Mr. Garcia. Oh, the ARB.
    Mr. Mrvan. Yes.
    Mr. Mrvan. Sir, I think that is a good idea. As to 
governance, I defer to some of my partners to maybe add to that 
as well.
    Mr. Mrvan. We can stop there. I just wanted to know what 
your opinion was.
    Mr. Garcia. Okay.
    Mr. Mrvan. With that, I will yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, sir. I appreciate it greatly.
    I recognize Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Oh my gosh, I was 
thinking you are--I am sorry--McCormick for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
    This question is for Mr. Orifici--I hope I got that right.
    For the most part, modernization of the Digital G.I. Bill 
system has been seamless and has avoided the pitfalls that VA's 
other IT modernization efforts have faced. What are some of the 
lessons learned from these efforts?
    Mr. Orifici. Thank you for that question, ranking member.
    I have actually come up in the education programs on the IT 
side through some of the failures and the successes that we are 
having here. I have gotten to experience many of the aspects of 
the failed IT and the successful programs. We have had a very 
collaborative environment between education service and Office 
of Information and Technology (OIT) and our vendors, that lets 
us communicate very regularly in terms of what work needs to be 
done, what the risks and issues are, and really be able to 
collaborate closely in terms of what progress needs to be made 
and what actions need to be taken. I think a large part of the 
success in the education space has been that close 
collaboration between the business, IT, and the vendors to make 
things successful.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. How can the VA transfer best 
practices and lessons learned from the modernization effort and 
duplicate it success in other VA programs?
    Mr. Orifici. Also a very good question.
    I am now in a larger role than I have been previously going 
through this and we are looking at the lessons learned and how 
we have done and been able to achieve the successes within this 
program and looking to see what we can then apply to the other 
areas than the benefits portfolio. We also worked very closely 
with our Chief Information Officer (CIO) on a regular basis 
with this program and he has very close to oversight of what we 
are doing here to apply those lessons more broadly across OIT.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. The committee has heard from 
numerous witnesses on the issues and incompatibilities between 
VA and DoD systems. What are the largest challenges in 
integrating DoD and VA systems?
    Mr. Orifici. I will start that question then I will turn 
that over to Joe.
    One of the challenges that we have is that there is very 
specific qualities around especially training data and around 
some the collection of data from all the branches of service as 
we look to automate the claims process. As we get into the 
collection of this data and making sure that we are having the 
quality data there, we have had to work with the data groups on 
the DoD side, and they have been very collaborative with us in 
correcting and working with us to bring this data across. It is 
really been making sure that we collect all the data that is 
needed to be able disqualify training periods and other type of 
information like that to make sure that those claims move 
forward.
    Mr. Garcia.
    Mr. Garcia. Ma'am, that again is a very good question 
because the data comes over from DoD and it enters our system. 
We have had great progress working with our partners. We had a 
meeting with them where we specifically identified the quick 
wins that we could get. A lot of it is Guard reserve time, 
service academies, how they have their obligations set up. We 
were very clear on what we needed, and our counterpart is 
working with the Services to make sure that we get that 
information that we need. I am very pleased with the progress 
that we are making and will continue to make with our DoD 
partners.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you.
    Well, that takes me to my question for you, Mr. Garcia.
    As with any technology modernization program, our main 
concern regarding potential vendor lock. The prime contractor, 
Accenture, indicated that it has used several proprietary 
technologies in a system which may hamper VA's ability to 
modify, upkeep, and enhance systems. Is this a concern of VA?
    Mr. Garcia. Proprietary.
    Mr. Orifici. Proprietary. The----
    Mr. Van Orden. Please suspend the gentlelady's time until 
you guys get your act together.
    Mr. Orifici. I am sorry, sir. He has the hearing--it is not 
working for him, so he has a hard time hearing the questions.
    Mr. Van Orden. That is a very reasonable excuse.
    Mr. Garcia. Is this Intellectual Property (IP)?
    Mr. Van Orden. Are you prepared to answer the question?
    Mr. Orifici. They are concerned about the vendor lock and 
the IP. Yes, IP.
    Mr. Garcia. Social properties?
    Mr. Orifici. Yes.
    Mr. Garcia. Sorry, ma'am. We are working on the 
intellectual property. Is that the question, ma'am?
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Mm-hmm. On the vendor lock.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes. We are working to include that in the 
modification of the contract.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. What steps are you taking?
    Mr. Orifici. Yes, so Mr. DelBene is very concerned about 
the intellectual property and how this moves forward. Part of 
the negotiations that we are entering with the vendor is how we 
handle the transition of IP into the VA to ensure that we 
minimize any impact of vendor lock around the intellectual 
property and the proprietary software.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, madam.
    I recognize Ms. Ramirez from Illinois for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden, Chairman 
Rosendale, Ranking Member Levin, and Ranking Member Cherfilus-
McCormick, for holding today's hearing and reviewing this 
digital bill program, G.I. Bill program.
    As you may know, you have probably heard me talk before 
about a bill that I introduced here in Congress, H.R. 1767. It 
is the Student Veteran Benefit Restoration Act. This bill in 
essence would restore G.I. Bill benefits to student veterans 
who have been defrauded by education institutions. As you can 
imagine, ensuring that the technological upgrades to the system 
used to administer the G.I. Bill benefits is really important 
to me. I want to make sure it works.
    This question is for Mr. Garcia. What steps is the VA and 
relevant departments taking to ensure that one H.R. 1767--
because I am being positive about it being signed into law--
what steps are you taking in the Enrollment Manager platform to 
make sure we have the capacity to handle a possible influx in 
claims?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, ma'am.
    Part of the efforts that we do is legislative changes that 
we need to do. We have office within education service that 
actually works on that to make sure that we take that new 
legislation, work with our partners to make sure that is 
integrated into, for example, the digital GIB platform moving 
forward. That is important that we do.
    Ms. Ramirez. Got it. I just want to reiterate, I think you 
heard it from Chairman Van Orden, you heard it from Ranking 
Member Levin, I mean, I think we all want to see a timeline 
that we are going to be able to count on in this fifth 
iteration of the modernization of the program. It is critical 
to all of us. I want to just make sure I say that on record.
    I have just a few more questions for you, and then I am 
going to yield back.
    Does the VA plan to request increased funding to the Office 
of Information and Technology for educational services? Yes or 
no?
    Mr. Garcia. That is OIT funding so, Robert, can you answer 
that?
    Mr. Orifici. At this time, we do not plan to ask for 
additional funding for OIT for this program, and that will be 
based--that may change based off any negotiations with vendor.
    Ms. Ramirez. Got it. Can the VA say that there will be no 
processing delays in the future as we wrap up what will be 
maybe the fifth iteration?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, ma'am. We do not want any more delays.
    Ms. Ramirez. Yes. I just, again, I want to reiterate what 
you heard here today. We know that you are working really hard 
and we want to make sure that we have the systems in place to 
ensure that above all we are centering everything we do on our 
veterans and making sure that they have the resources they 
need, they are able to process their benefits as soon as 
possible, and that we do not look back and repeat the same 
thing we have seen in the past.
    I am going to take your word that you are doing everything 
in your hands to ensure that summer 2024 date comes to a 
concrete date and that we could all be celebrating, we are 
moving forward, and we have progress.
    Thank you.
    With that, I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Ramirez.
    I recognize Mr. Self from the great State of Texas for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Mueller, I heard you say earlier about the noble work--
VA does noble work. We are not here today to question the 
nobleness of your work, we are here to see if we can make it 
more efficient.
    Mr. Garcia, you have a very impressive resume, 28 years in 
the Air Force. You assumed leadership just over a year ago, and 
you have written on leadership, you have taught leadership, and 
you assumed the leadership of this program almost a year ago. 
Is that right?
    Mr. Garcia. August 1st. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Self. August 1st.
    Mr. Garcia. Going on a year.
    Mr. Self. Going on a year. Very close to it. Since you took 
the leadership of this program, we have come up with this 
delay. First question is, to what do you attribute the delay? I 
may have missed it while I was out on the floor, but the bottom 
line, if you will.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. That is a very good question, sir.
    Part of the delay is getting it right, right. We want to 
make sure, we want to build on the success that I have heard 
people recognize, do right for our veterans, and be good 
stewards, right. The delay, sir, I think, comes down to new 
information that we got about the runway that we now have. BDN 
shut down, the benefit delivery network system, was originally 
going to shut down, be unavailable September of this year. That 
compressed the time schedule, right. Now we know it is next of 
2 years of runway. We were able to use that runway to move 
Enrollment Manager, for example, for the school's certifying 
officials. It has been a great program, 1.4 million enrollment 
certifications. It has been a much better program because we 
moved it to the right. That is an example of how we are trying 
to make sure we take advantage of the agile capacity with 
additional runway.
    Mr. Self. You talked about how it compressed the timeline 
and yet then you have a longer runway. I am not sure I 
understand that. We do not need to go into it.
    Once you identified the delay, how often do you 
personally--because we are talking about at least a billion 
dollar program here over the decade, at least a billion dollar 
program--how often do you personally chair meetings to make 
sure this moves as fast as it can? You personally.
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, Digital G.I. Bill is the highest priority 
for me. It takes up every part of my day. In the governance 
structure we have meetings with our partners twice a week. I 
have their cell phone number. I talked to them nighttime, 
weekends to make sure the program is moving forward. We set up 
a project modernization office, PMO, in my office working 
directly for me now. That is a change that I made. It was not 
working for me before. The PMO works for me. I talked to that 
person daily. It is a daily effort working with this 
modernization forward.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Have you had this large of a project 
management project before?
    Mr. Garcia. I have been involved with projects like this, 
sir, after I retired I worked for a consulting firm. The 
Pentagon has some modernization projects. I did not lead them, 
but I was part of them.
    Mr. Self. Mm-hmm. Okay. What are you going to do--Congress 
is concerned about the length of time. I do not accept these 
delays at face value. What are you doing to compress the time, 
to use your expression.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Self. Do you just accept your contractor's statement 
that it is going to take that long? Because leadership, in and 
of its essence, is to get the most out of the people under you.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. I agree. I do that for our staff, and 
I work collaboratively with our vendors to move the program 
forward. I commit to continue doing that.
    Mr. Self. Do you see any possibility to compress the 
timeline, to use your phrase?
    Mr. Garcia. We want to make sure we do it right, sir. It is 
a lot of testing that needs to occur. We do not want to be too 
fast. We want to make sure that the veterans get their 
benefits, again, as I got when I was the veteran, that the 
payments are accurate, for example. We do not want to speed so 
much that we get it wrong. I think we should be deliberate to 
make sure these major releases that come forward are done 
right.
    Mr. Self. Are your contractors working 24/7 on this?
    Mr. Garcia. I call them at all hours of the day and night.
    Mr. Self. The testing--and this may be for one of you other 
gentlemen--is the testing occurring--because this is an IT 
system, is the testing occurring 24/7?
    Mr. Michl. I will take that, sir. As we go through test 
cycles, we have different phases----
    Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired.
    We are going to move to a second round of questioning. 
Before we do so, Mr. Garcia, is your hearing--is your device 
working?
    Mr. Garcia. The device is not working well, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. I would like to take a brief recess 
now if you want to work on that because I really want you to be 
able to hear what we are saying. Is that all right? All right, 
we will take a brief recess.
    Mr. Garcia, just give a heads up.
    [Recess]
    Mr. Van Orden. I apologize for this, Mr. Garcia. That 
technology was issued to you by this committee and that is not 
your fault, that is ours. That will not happen again. I am 
going to knock you when you are not doing good stuff and I am 
going to knock us we do not do good stuff either. What is good 
for the goose is good for the gander.
    We will proceed now to a second round of questioning and I 
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Garcia, previous to this committee hearing, when you 
guys were informed--I said this earlier, you were informed over 
a month ago that you were going to come here and sit here, and 
we did not get data, this stuff, from you until last night. 20 
years in the Air Force, did a bunch of other stuff. Were an 
officer or an enlisted guy? Were you an officer or enlisted?
    Mr. Garcia. Both. Eight years enlisted, 20 years 
commissioned.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. What pay grade were you using enlisted 
guy? What did you get up to?
    Mr. Garcia. E-5 after 8 years, and then I got out and 
became a lieutenant colonel after 20.
    Mr. Van Orden. Then you went bad. Just kidding. I am an 
enlisted guy. Okay. When you were a lieutenant colonel, if you 
told your lieutenant or whatever, hey, man, we are going to get 
together a month from now and I want you to have pretty much 
every pertinent document you could think to make sure that your 
lieutenant will be able to inform me what is going on. The 
lieutenant that worked for you, Lieutenant Colonel Garcia, 
waited until the night before to give you preparatory material, 
what type of conversation would you have with that lieutenant, 
Mr. Garcia?
    Mr. Garcia. In fairness, I normally try and ask what was 
the situation that led to that first?
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay, Mr. Garcia. What is the situation that 
led to the fact that you guys could not give us the pertinent 
documents that are super duper important for us to find out 
until 12 hours before hearing when you were informed 5 weeks 
ago.
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, I am not sure what document you are 
referring to.
    Mr. Van Orden. Well, this thing with all the budget and how 
much money he spent and everything. The $377,508,587.47, which 
is approximately 20 percent of the $1.3 to $1.96 billion you 
will be expending of taxpayers' dollars for something that may 
or may not work.
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, if that got to you late then, that is my 
responsibility. I do accept that.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
    These guys came into my office and we talked about this 
stuff ahead of time. To the knowledge of this committee, your 
group of folks that work for you have never reached out to this 
committee staff. I know you have certainly not reached out to 
my office to discuss any of these things previously, so we 
could have taken care of some of this and moved the ball 
forward. To me, it seems that if the vendor, which these guys 
proactively reached out to my office because they know I am the 
chairman of the subcommittee and they want to talk through some 
things in detail because I only give myself 5 minutes to talk 
and you have not done it, that is telling me that they are 
trying and you are not. That is a factual statement. I would 
like to see you more engaged in this program.
    My colleague, who had to step back to the floor, Mr. Self, 
is a retired special forces colonel, and these things do not 
fly with us. They do not. If you are responsible, Mr. Garcia, 
you are responsible.
    Mr. Michl, what is included in the next phase of this 
project? Is the code actually written for the project already, 
and how long has it been ready, if it is, and what do you think 
the holdup is to implement this? Is the code written? If it is, 
right, how long has it been written, and then what is the hold 
up for getting it going?
    Mr. Michl. Thank you for the question, sir.
    The majority of the capabilities for release six are 
written. The next phases will be to test that and then 
ultimately to deploy that. There are some additional 
requirements that will likely require development. There will 
be some additional code. That is why I said the majority, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. When did the majority of this get 
written? When is it finished so that you could start your 
testing phase?
    Mr. Michl. It was finished in the in the early spring, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Of this year.
    Mr. Michl. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. What is the holdup?
    Mr. Michl. There are a number of dependencies to enable 
testing. Some of that includes the environments that are 
necessary for that. In order to test an application of this 
type with the complex data----
    Mr. Van Orden. Has anybody said go? Is anybody like go, Mr. 
Michl, run free. Have they done that?
    Mr. Michl. No, sir. We continue to make progress.
    Mr. Van Orden. Hold on, hold on. I got 35 seconds.
    Mr. Michl, who is the person that says go, launch, execute, 
proceed, sir? Who should be saying--a person--who should be 
saying that to you? Not an environment or process, blah, blah, 
blah. Who has to say, hit it, Kyle?
    Mr. Michl. We get approval from Mr. Garcia to move forward 
with testing.
    Mr. Van Orden. We are waiting for Mr. Garcia to tell you to 
launch something that is already written and paid for and Mr. 
Garcia has not told you that yet, is that correct?
    Mr. Michl. We have certainly had discussions about what is 
in front of us.
    Mr. Van Orden. That is a yes or no answer.
    Mr. Michl. There is a lot of complexity----
    Mr. Van Orden. My time has expired and the answer is no.
    I now yield back and I recognize the ranking member, Mr. 
Levin, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. I thank the chairman again.
    Wanted to relay some questions from students. These are 
actual questions from students. Hopefully that will yield your 
attention.
    One of these questions was do all school certifying 
officials have access to Enrollment Manager or have there been 
any issues preventing access? Mr. Garcia, you seem to be on the 
hot spot today, so I will go with you.
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir.
    Over 15,000 have access to Enrollment Manager and those 
that could not, we try to get--we got in the system. There 
might have been some ID.me credential issues, but we believe 
that they are in that need to get in.
    Mr. Levin. To your knowledge, there are not any issues 
preventing access at this time?
    Mr. Garcia. Not that I am aware of, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. We will follow up.
    We also heard that the Enrollment Manager might not have 
the best accessibility for those who are visually impaired. Can 
you commit to look into that and fix any issues with regard to 
accessibility?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. We can look into that.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you. Specifically, we are hearing about 
the inability to increase the font size and things like that. I 
am sure there would be plenty of follow-up for that.
    Then third, what is the downtime when Enrollment Manager 
shut down during the typical duty day?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, I defer to my OIT person on that, please.
    Mr. Orifici. I am not aware of downtime for Enrollment 
Manager during the daytime, and I would defer to a Accenture if 
there is any additional metrics around downtime for Enrollment 
Manager.
    Mr. Michl. I am not aware of specific downtime associated 
with enrolment manager. There are certain processes that depend 
on systems downstream that might be delayed, but that should be 
not apparent to the user.
    Mr. Levin. Okay. If we get you in touch with that specific 
person who had the question, can you commit to addressing their 
concern about this?
    Mr. Michl. Yes. I would be happy to look into it, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Terrific. I appreciate that.
    No further questions, and I will yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Levin. I appreciate it 
greatly.
    I now recognize Mr. Rosendale from the great state of--
where are you from anyway--I am just kidding--Montana.
    Mr. Rosendale. Montana.
    Mr. Van Orden. I know you are from Montana. It is good to 
have you here.
    Mr. Rosendale. The treasure state.
    Mr. Van Orden. It is the treasure state. Mr. Rosendale.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you all for your patience. Obviously, 
we all have a lot of things going on. There is business on the 
floor today I had to participate in. I am glad to be back. 
Thank you very much. This is important work.
    If the next release happens next summer, next rollout, that 
represents a 1-year delay in what we have been doing here. Mr. 
Garcia, we are 2 years into the DGIB program. It has produced 
significant accomplishments, as I have referenced in my opening 
remarks, but the current struggles are frustrating and 
baffling. Let us get right down to the root cause of this. What 
caused the next release to change and to be delayed?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, the next release, release six, is eMPWR. 
That is the financial system that is on the schedule. We do 
need, as Mr. Michl said, the test environment properly to get 
that properly tested, make sure it is done right. We have that 
coming, and so that influenced when that could roll out. I 
would commit to the early summer timeframe for that next major 
release of eMPWR, which is the financial system upgrade.
    Mr. Rosendale. Mr. Michl, let me ask you, what are you 
waiting for? We just heard that Mr. Garcia has to give you the 
authority to move forward. What do you need in order to do next 
rollout?
    Mr. Michl. In order to complete the next rollout we need to 
have the availability of the test environment that Mr. Garcia 
just mentioned, we need to have clarity on what requirements 
are in that release. There is a few additional items to be 
clarified, and we need to have a contractual path to enable 
that.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Mr. Garcia, who do you need to get 
that information from and why is it taking so long to get it?
    Mr. Garcia. We put a team together, acquisitions, OIT, in 
house, and VBA to figure the best course of action. We have 
that final decision made. Now we are moving out. Next 30 days, 
we are going to develop the terms, 30 days to negotiate, and 
hopefully by early, mid September, we will have a contract 
modified with AFS to continue progressing with the next major 
release.
    Mr. Rosendale. Are you saying that there is another 
contractor involved or are you going to be negotiating back 
with Accenture?
    Mr. Garcia. Accenture.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. If you are providing the information, 
why are you not able to get the information that they need? 
Where is that coming from in order to authorize them to 
continue their work?
    Mr. Garcia. Well, we need to modify the contract, right, 
because then we need to set the priorities, do the 
deliverables, there is things we want to do with that modified 
contract that is necessary to trigger the next steps.
    Mr. Rosendale. Do you have the information that is 
necessary to deliver that to Mr. Michl right now, Accenture 
right now so that you could proceed with this work?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, I believe most of the requirements are 
done. There is----
    Mr. Rosendale. If you have the information available to 
you, are you telling me it is going to take you a year to 
negotiate a contract and be able to authorize Mr. Michl to do 
this work?
    Mr. Garcia. No, sir, I did not say it would take a year. I 
am saying by September, we will have the modified contract in 
place for them to continue with release six. They cannot do it 
in 2 or 3 months.
    Mr. Rosendale. Mr. Michl, if you get the authorization in 
September to proceed with version six rollout, are you saying 
that it is going to take you until next summer to roll it out? 
The information I have is that it is going to be until next 
summer. Unless somebody said something in the room while I was 
gone.
    Mr. Michl. Yes, sir. You know, certainly it depends on the 
final outcomes, but that is a reasonable timeframe given what 
we know today.
    Mr. Rosendale. Mr. Michl, how much of the software in the 
next release is already completed and what is left to do?
    Mr. Michl. The majority is complete.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. If the majority of the software is 
completed--I must be missing something--if the majority of the 
software is completed, you have the information that is 
available to you and you just need to finish up a contract, I 
do not understand why we are talking about next year before 
this can be rolled out. Somebody please enlighten me.
    Mr. Michl.
    Mr. Michl. When we look at the deployments for the system, 
there is a small number of windows across the year where we can 
deploy. If you think about Enrollment Manager, we want to make 
sure we are not deploying things during a time of high 
enrollment.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay.
    Mr. Michl. There is approximately 14 out of 52 weeks of the 
year that we can deploy. You take that into consideration. 
There is also a need to go and test thoroughly, as you heard 
Mr. Garcia say, and those test cycles are months long. They 
take a substantial amount of time to make sure that we get this 
right. You add those together, along with the time to move 
forward on potentially new requirements, that is where the 
summer of 2024 comes----
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. If we have the information available, 
you have the software that is available, you have to have a 
little bit of time to go ahead and test it, 30 days to test 
your software out. You say the software is just about complete. 
Then we are looking at--we are trying to find a window of time 
when we do not have a large enrolment, then that would be 
December-January, during which you are not having enrolment 
time. It would seem to me that that would be when we could roll 
this out.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
    I now recognize Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    We are aware that the G.I. Bill benefits change 
periodically as Congress provides for new benefits. In the past 
we have seen technology delays or otherwise create problems in 
the delivery of these benefits.
    Mr. Garcia, how can the VA ensure that the new system is 
this is as future proof as possible.
    Mr. Garcia. I am sorry, ma'am. How do we ensure future 
proof, ma'am? How do you define future proof?
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Making sure that we are avoided 
the obstacles and the pitfalls from the past.
    Mr. Garcia. Avoiding obstacles? Yes, ma'am. I think that 
goes back to the governance structure that we have in place 
with the right people at the right time. We meet constantly, 
again, OIT, other players at this table. The governance 
structure is very important, right. It is the oversight from 
senior levels and then program governance is occurring. The PMO 
office that works for me also ensures the oversight that we 
continue moving forward. It is governance and the PMO office 
that we are increasing the staffing for.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. My question then is for Mr. 
Orifici.
    What specific steps are being taking organizationally and 
technologically to ensure longevity?
    Mr. Orifici. Yes. Thank you for that question. A big part 
of what we are trying to do is eliminate the 22 legacy systems 
that supported education benefits at the start of this process. 
To date, we have eliminated two and we have plans over the 
course of this effort to decommission all but two of the 
systems that currently support education system and move them 
onto this modern platform. All of the systems that support 
education service will be on modern technology. They will no 
longer be sitting on 50 year old COBOL programs.
    In that effort, we should be able to continue to modernize 
and keep the systems current with today's technology.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you.
    Mr. Mueller, other technology modernization efforts at the 
VA have struggled with change management and communication. Has 
MITRE or the VA measured the success of these functions in the 
Digital G.I. Bill program? If so, how was it measured?
    Mr. Mueller. We have not measured the functions, but we are 
supporting the PMO in that space to develop organizational 
change and stakeholder engagement plans.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Are you using any variables to 
measure success?
    Mr. Mueller. We will be developing those measures as the 
PMO continues to mature.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. As of right now, do you know what 
variables you might consider in and what is the delivery date 
for those variables?
    Mr. Mueller. I will take that back and get back----
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. My next question for you then is 
where are there are lessons learned regarding change management 
or communication that can be shared with the rest of the VA 
modernization efforts?
    Mr. Mueller. At MITRE we actually have an innovation center 
that is focused on this space that we--and they work across our 
sponsor base across the Federal Government. We bring those 
lessons learned when we develop the plans that we work with 
this sponsor, with the VA on. That is how we bring that 
information back.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. What are a few of those lessons 
learned specifically?
    Mr. Mueller. I would have to get back to you to get 
specifics, but proactive engagement. I would start with that, 
proactive engagement, constant communication.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Okay. As we are moving forward, 
what was that delivery date? We want to make sure that we have 
full implementation success and that we are measuring what is 
going forward. Do you know when you will have those variables 
and those lessons learned compiled and put together?
    Mr. Mueller. I will have to get back to you on the specific 
date.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. All right.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, ma'am.
    We will proceed to a third round of questioning and I 
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Michl, there are 14 out of 52 weeks where you can 
implement this. Is this correct?
    Mr. Michl. Optimal weeks for deployment, sir, yes.
    Mr. Van Orden. Right on. Do you have those like blocked off 
on a calendar?
    Mr. Michl. We do have versions of calendars for those.
    Mr. Van Orden. Have you given a copy of that to Mr. Garcia?
    Mr. Michl. We have a road map, but it is probably not 
identified clearly. We could share----
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Let us solve some problems here. Let 
us pretend like we are all enlisted people still. Sorry, Mr. 
Garcia. I want you to get a calendar, I want you to block off 
14 out of 52 weeks where you can implement this and I want you 
to hand deliver to Mr. Garcia. Mr. Garcia, that is going to 
help you narrow down so you can answer my ranking member's 
question. You will be able to put your finger on this. I want 
to know when it is going to happen, because this is, again, 
completely unacceptable.
    Are you familiar with the POA and M? Did you guys use that 
in the Air Force? Did you? You know what that stands for? Plans 
of Actions and Milestones. It is the way that you mission plan 
so that you kill terrorists because your guys are trained and 
women are trained and equipped and they are ready to go. Do you 
have the plans and actions of milestones developed for this 
program, which is going to cost over a billion, gazillion--I do 
not even know how much money it is going to cost. Do you have a 
written plan of action and milestone? Do you?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, it is in the integrated master schedule 
for the releases.
    Mr. Van Orden. If you have an integrated master schedule 
then either you have been disingenuous with me or it is a bad 
schedule, because if you have a schedule, sir, that means you 
have a calendar. If you have a calendar, you have dates on it. 
I am going to keep harping on this.
    Okay. If you have time, Kyle, I would appreciate it, 14 
weeks out of 52. Use a highlighter. Hand them to that dude. Mr. 
Garcia, I want you to put your finger on one of those weeks for 
us, and I want you to give it to this guy and to me. We are not 
doing this anymore. We are not doing bureaucratic gobbledygook 
and all that. We are not doing that.
    Veterans risk their lives for us, as you did. They have 
earned these education benefits. They are not a gift. They will 
be able to exercise them and they are not going to have to 
worry about paying their rent because your 40 year old 
antiquated system does not work and you cannot tell me when the 
new one is going to come in. This is unacceptable and it will 
not be tolerated.
    Mr. Garcia, it is you, it is not the Veterans 
Administration, it is not a process or an organization, it is 
you as an individual. I respect your service as a lieutenant 
colonel. You are a Mustang--that is what we call them in the 
Navy. I respect that. With that respect comes responsibility 
and you are responsible. With responsibility comes 
accountability, and we are holding you accountable today. Is 
that crystal clear, Mr. Garcia?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir, it is.
    Mr. Van Orden. I appreciate that greatly.
    Mr. Mueller, you guys are really quiet. I am sorry. I guess 
I do not know if you are happy or not that you are not getting 
drilled. I do not know. It is on either side of the fence.
    Mr. Mueller, in 2018 one of the recommendations of your 
company was made to ensure that success of this project, which 
clearly it has not been successful, was that the VA appoint a 
specific person, like by name, one person, one stop shop, who 
would be held accountable to shepherd this project, to champion 
it. Was that recommendation taken on board?
    Mr. Mueller. Thank you for the question.
    Specific to that 2018 International Trade Administration 
(ITA) recommendation, that was for the Forever G.I. Bill 
implementation.
    Mr. Van Orden. Yes.
    Mr. Mueller. It was taken. It was identified as the 
undersecretary of benefits at the time.
    Mr. Van Orden. Who was that?
    Mr. Mueller. That was Dr. Paul Lawrence.
    Mr. Van Orden. Where did Paul go?
    Mr. Mueller. Well, no. That was the previous Forever G.I. 
Bill, Colmery implementation. For the Digital G.I. Bill, the 
accountable official is Mr. Garcia.
    Mr. Van Orden. Aha. All roads lead to Garcia.
    Mr. Mueller. As I stated in my oral testimony, those 
recommendations were acted on----
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Mr. Mueller. and carried through into the current 
modernization program.
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well.
    Mr. Garcia, I believe that we have come to common accord 
and I have presented my commander's intent. I understand that 
you get what that means. Again, I respect your service 
tremendously. I appreciate the fact that you have decided to 
continue serving our Nation. I just want you to step up this 
game because all the answers are there. Okay? Finger on 
calendar, please. I would appreciate that greatly.
    With that, I yield back and I recognize my ranking member, 
Mr. Levin, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. I thank the chairman again and promise this is 
my last question for you. Although it might be one that we will 
have to revisit in future hearings or future meetings.
    In January 2022, the House passed with a broad bipartisan 
vote the G.I. Bill parity legislation for Guard and Reserve. As 
we are contemplating your timeline and your plan, which I know 
you are going to provide to us after this back and forth, are 
you contemplating the possibility that we may be adding Guard 
and Reserve eligibility? If so, are you incorporating that into 
your thinking at all about the flexibility of more people that 
are all of a sudden going to be eligible for these benefits?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, we will take a look at anybody who is 
eligible that comes eligible, but I have to take that back and 
get that information to you.
    Mr. Levin. In the last Congress we passed it in the House 
pretty overwhelmingly, and then the clock ran out with our 
friends in the Senate. We are just going to try again. It was 
not for a lack of interest or a lack of bipartisan agreement. 
The devil is always in the details on these things, but I think 
there is a reasonable possibility that in this Congress, next 
Congress, who knows. That is going to happen and we are going 
to see Guard and Reserve that are eligible. I think we learned 
a lot in the process and we are going to come back and 
hopefully get that across the finish line. I just want to make 
sure you guys are prepared if there are all of a sudden a lot 
more people who are eligible, that your system can handle it. 
Is that fair?
    Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir. We will be prepared.
    Mr. Levin. All right. Again, I appreciate all that you are 
doing, and we look forward to seeing those timelines from you.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, ranking member.
    I now recognize Chairman Rosendale from the great state of 
Montana.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Garcia and Mr. Michl, what does delaying the next 
release of the summer of 2024 do to the future releases seven, 
eight, nine, for both time and cost? If you could give a quick 
summary, what we could expect. Mr. Michl first and then Mr. 
Garcia, your estimate. Time and cost with the delay of seven, 
eight, and nine.
    Mr. Michl. Sir, so moving release six, there is a degree of 
critical path, so we need to analyze what can happen for future 
releases, seven, eight, and nine, but they will likely also 
need to move from current schedule.
    Mr. Rosendale. That was stating the obvious, okay. I know 
that. What kind of time are we talking about though?
    Mr. Michl. Without additional inputs from the VA on what 
the scope is and how we want to address the dependencies, it is 
hard for me to speculate in that, sir.
    Mr. Rosendale. You could not even estimate the time or cost 
on that? We are right in our schedule to have this project--the 
rollouts are supposed to be completed by the end of 24. Am I 
correct there? Okay. If we are not going to have version six 
rolled out until next summer, then clearly seven, eight, and 
nine are not going to be able to be rolled out until 25 or 
later, 26. Is that a safe assumption?
    Mr. Michl. As I said, sir----
    Mr. Rosendale. Are you telling me that there is any 
realistic possibility that they would be able to be rolled out 
after the summer of 24? Seven, eight, and nine?
    Mr. Michl. Sir, we are looking at options to try to pull 
back pieces where it makes sense, but also recognize that a 
number of those are going to be dependent upon completing 
release six and getting final inputs from the VA.
    Mr. Rosendale. Understood. If the VA gave you everything 
that you requested, are you telling me that there is any 
potential that you would be able to roll those out by the end 
of next year?
    Mr. Michl. Not in their entirety.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay.
    Mr. Garcia, tell me, version six is not going to roll out 
until next summer. What do you think time and cost wise this is 
going to end up taking to complete this project?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, I agree with Mr. Michl. The schedule will 
be dependent on certain actions occurring first. I think the 
first commitment is at release six for the summer, seven, 
eight, nine will follow that. I cannot give you that time 
schedule right now. As far as the cost, MITRE will produce the 
life cycle cost estimate that will address that additional cost 
and provide that to you accordingly.
    Mr. Rosendale. Both of you,--let us say we go beyond the 
time, because I think that we are stating the obvious again. 
You are not going to be able to get this work completed by the 
end of 24, unless something miraculous happens. The window of 
cost is somewhere between 1.3-and $1.9 billion. Can I at least 
get a commitment that you will not be coming back to this room 
and saying we ran out of time and we ran out of money?
    Mr. Garcia. The Undersecretary is committed to not coming 
back for additional funding.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. That does not make me sleep well, but 
I guess that is what we have right now.
    Mr. Michl, is it true that the project will not be 
completed before your contract is slated to expire?
    Mr. Michl. Our contract has multiple option years out to, I 
believe 2029 or 2030. I am not sure that that is a true 
statement, sir.
    Mr. Rosendale. Is it broken out to the actual 
implementation and the operation and maintenance? Are there 
provisions in there? The 2029 is probably the operation and 
maintenance cost, I would assume.
    Mr. Michl. It is, sir.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Do we have provisions in there that 
are going to end before you have the rollout completed? Because 
the rollout is not going to be completed by the end of next 
year. We are kidding ourselves. Does your contract call for 
that in version seven, eight, and nine--is that portion of the 
contract going to expire at the end of next year?
    Mr. Michl. I would have to take this--and get you more 
detail. I do not believe that there are details at that level 
within the contract and I think modifications----
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. We are going to need a copy of that so 
that we can see exactly how this is going to be able to 
proceed. Okay.
    I am down to about 36 seconds here.
    Mr. Garcia, the next DGIB release is on track for a 1 year 
delay. The project would not produce any new capability for an 
entire year. Do you think that is acceptable?
    Mr. Garcia. We will continue with other thing besides the 
major releases. Automation efforts that we have been talking 
about, other minor releases that occur, and the planning that 
will be in place along with testing to make sure that we will 
continue with those major releases in the future. It is not 
that we are stopping. We will continue to make progress.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay.
    I yield back Mr. Chair. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would just like to make a couple closing remarks here.
    I want to thank you all for coming. I appreciate it 
greatly. Mr. Garcia. Not a great afternoon for you. I 
appreciate that. I want you guys to come back here and I want 
to have a great day together. That is what I want. The sole 
intent of this subcommittee, the reason we exist in Congress, 
is to make sure that our veterans receive the benefits that 
they earned. They are not going to do that unless you step up 
your game. It is not going to happen. I expect you to be more 
proactive with us. I am telling you If we do not get the 
answers that we want in a timely manner, I will subpoena you. I 
will bring you here, and I will call CNN, and we will shine 
bright lights right in your eyes, and it will be a very bad 
day. I do not want to do that, but I will. It is not about me 
or you or Mr. Levin or Rosendale or anybody else here, it is 
about the person that does their time in the military, risk 
their lives, they leave their family, and they want to better 
themselves and become a productive member of society just as 
they were a productive member of the military, and they do that 
through education because education is the only way that you 
can free the mind. You know that.
    We are going to get this done and we are going to get it 
done with you or we are going to get rid of you and we are 
going to find somebody else to do it because it has to happen. 
It is not an option. All right.
    With that, I yield back.
    I would like my ranking member--recognize him if you have 
any closing comments.
    Mr. Levin. I cannot follow that.
    Mr. Van Orden. Chairman Rosendale, do you have any closing 
comments?
    Mr. Rosendale. Just look, thank you all for coming in. This 
is one system that started off really well and we just want to 
make sure it finishes well. That is all. We just want to make 
sure it finishes well. Let us not drop the ball at this point. 
Let us keep this thing going.
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members may have 5 
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include 
extraneous material.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:36 p.m., the subcommittees were 
adjourned.]
    
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

=======================================================================


                    Prepared Statement of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement of Joseph Garcia

    Chairmen Van Orden and Rosendale, Ranking Members Levin and 
Cherfilus-McCormick, and other Members of the Subcommittees, thank you 
for the opportunity to appear before you today to discuss the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA or the Department) Digital GI Bill 
(DGIB) program and the continued information technology system 
improvements and upgrades. Accompanying me today is Mr. Robert Orifici 
from the Office of Information and Technology (OIT).
    To ensure VA serves all Veterans and their families seeking to use 
their GI Bill benefits and equip them with the tools and resources 
necessary to reach their academic and career goals, VA is modernizing 
the GI Bill's Information Technology (IT) platform to deliver benefits 
faster and enhance customer service. The goal of this effort is to 
develop a modern digital platform, leveraging cloud-based automation, 
digital service transformation, human-centered design, world-class 
communications, analytics, and other important IT services. The 
improvements will provide world-class customer and benefit services to 
Veterans and VA's partners, enabling more timely and accurate delivery 
of education benefits, providing near real-time eligibility and benefit 
information, and allowing for first contact resolution.

Digital GI Bill Overview

    Each year, approximately 200,000 Service members transition from 
the military to civilian life. Over 875,000 Veterans, Service members, 
and family members used VA education benefits last year alone, 
receiving nearly $10 billion in education and training-related 
benefits. The GI Bill provides an opportunity to skill up for the 
civilian workforce by expanding opportunities for Service members, 
Veterans, and eligible family members to pursue their academic goals, 
enhancing the nation's economic strength with innovative programs that 
support employment in high-demand fields and enriching lives by giving 
beneficiaries the tools they need to further their education to lead to 
fulfilling careers.
    On March 11, 2021, VA awarded a contract to Accenture Federal 
Services, which has partnered with VA Education Service (EDU) and VA 
OIT to develop the DGIB. DGIB is a modernized business platform that 
will feature world-class customer and financial services to enable 
timely and accurate delivery of payments, real-time eligibility and 
benefit information. This new platform will provide an end-to-end 
systems management perspective to ensure proper compliance and 
oversight of GI Bill programs and will allow the use of data and 
business intelligence tools to monitor and measure school and student 
outcomes. Using this platform, GI Bill students will have the ability 
to engage with VA and their earned benefits through electronic 
outreach, intake and communication tools for on-the-spot service.

Claims and Automation

    Process automation is key for improving a veteran's GI Bill 
experience. VA is striving to meet the goal of automating 50 percent of 
original claims and 80 percent of supplemental claims. In just six 
months after the contract was awarded, VA successfully deployed the 
processing of Post-9/11 GI Bill claims to the DGIB Managed Service, 
marking the first major milestone in the modernization journey. The 
Managed Service allows for agile decision-making in a single, managed 
platform that grows with VA's needs and responds to changes in 
technology through continuous end-to-end updates.
    Since the beginning of the program in March 2021 VA has identified 
and resolved more than 20 automation improvement opportunities for 
original and supplemental claims. Through multiple releases, VA has 
made significant improvements in claims processing. In May 2023, the 
full automation rate for supplemental claims was at 61.7 percent, 12.7 
percent percentage points higher than the 49.0 percent automation rate 
in May 2022 and 26.7 percent higher than the program baseline 
automation rate of 35 percent in May 2021. In February 2023, VA 
automated a record 68 percent of supplemental claims, automating the 
processing of 188,000 claims.
    VA's automation efforts to this point have created more streamlined 
processes, updated tracking systems, eliminated redundancies, and 
reduced overall manual intervention required from Veterans Claims 
Examiners (VCEs).
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


    For the first time since the inception of the program, almost 80 
years ago, many GI Bill applicants can receive a same-day education 
benefits eligibility decision, thanks to a simplified Post-9/11 GI Bill 
application experience enabled by DGIB. It provides Veterans the 
ability to download and view digital copies of their Certificate of 
Eligibility and decision letters, so Veterans no longer need to wait up 
to five days for a paper copy to arrive in the mail. Through the 
integration with VA/Department of Defense Identity Repository (VADIR), 
Veterans may now experience pre-filled service history when entering an 
online application for original claims, and no longer need to enter 
that information by hand. VA continues its efforts to improve 
automation, identifying and actively working on the following seven 
automation improvement opportunities as of June 2023:

        1. Benefits Delivery Network (BDN) CH33 Supplemental End 
        Product (EP) Creation

        2. Enrollment Manager (EM) non-standard remarks

        3. EM Mandate (7/1/23)

        4. Automate My Education Benefits (MEB) Transfer of Entitlement 
        (TOE) Claims

        5. Automate Non-College Degree (NCD) Claims

        6. CH33 Award Letter Modernization

        7. Release 6 Enterprise Management of Payments, workload, and 
        Reporting (eMPWR) switch

Recent Accomplishments

    In the most recent DGIB major release in March 2023, VA deployed EM 
to help School Certifying Officials (SCOs) at educational institutions 
process enrollments more efficiently. This will help SCOs submit 
enrollments faster, allowing them more time to assist GI Bill students 
in reaching their educational goals. In only 3 months since EM 
launched, VA surpassed one million enrollment certifications received. 
Over 14,000 SCOs from over 10,000 institutions are using EM to deliver 
earned benefits to Veterans and their families faster than ever before. 
In the legacy system, VA Online Certification of Enrollment System (VA-
ONCE), claims took approximately one business day for the Long-Term 
Solution system to process during business hours. In EM, claims are 
created from school inputs within 5 minutes, during business hours, 
which is 96 times faster than before. Finally, rapid releases of 
additional functionality continue monthly demonstrating agility, 
including 28 new requirements and 61 new user stories developed in 
releases 5.2.0.1-5.2.2. between March and June 2023.
    In future releases, Veterans, their families, SCOs, and other 
partners can expect to see more user experience enhancements. For 
example, GI Bill beneficiaries will benefit from a streamlined 
application process, improved processing times and faster eligibility 
decisions and entitlement adjudications, allowing them to focus on 
their education and career goals. Through VA's modernization efforts 
and the removal of redundant processes, VA is increasing efficiency 
while allowing its employees and SCOs to focus on the mission of 
supporting Veterans and their families.

Challenges

    Implementing a Managed Service and improving automation involves 
integrating numerous complex IT systems and decommissioning decades old 
systems. For example, in navigating the complexity of decommissioning 
BDN, the DGIB team continues to prioritize the development of system 
requirements that can be readily implemented. By applying an all-hands-
on-deck approach, VA has been successful in creating a realistic plan 
to transition legacy systems into the Managed Service. However, VA 
acknowledges several challenges during this transition, such as a March 
2023 issue that affected Monthly Housing Allowance payments.
    As with any major issue, VA immediately established an incident 
response team comprised of OIT experts, analysts, and engineers, to 
identify and resolve the problem in several days and ensure payments 
were completed. Through review of logs, processes, and code, the root 
cause was identified as a configuration applied to the payment queuing 
service as part of Release 5 on March 4, 2023. The configuration 
triggered an unexpected pause in the payment queuing service. However, 
thanks to valiant efforts of many employees at both VA and the 
Department of Treasury, payments were still able to be released that 
day, although later in the day than originally planned. As part of our 
post-incident analysis, VA conducted a thorough review of the 
infrastructure and processes to identify potential vulnerabilities and 
ensure appropriate safeguards are in place. Specifically, multiple 
actions were taken to mitigate this in the future, including auditing 
of configuration for service condition execution establishing 
additional business operations checks, and expanding operations testing 
prior to Go-Live. These actions were driven by a commitment to protect 
our organization's operations and to preserve trust with those we 
serve. Working with Accenture Federal Services, our contracting team, 
and OIT, VA is confident that appropriate safeguards are in place to 
prevent similar incidents in the future. Additionally, these specific 
issues were added to how VA examines all managed services across all 
benefits portfolios to ensure similar safeguards are in place across 
the enterprise.
    Other challenges include limitations on the availability and number 
of testing environments that have affected the overall timeline; and 
the urgency of BDN shutdown has driven much of the timeline and 
implementation capabilities delaying other automation and modernization 
goals of the program. The mainframe manufacturer and support company 
for BDN announced that there will be no continued support moving 
forward due to lack of resources and equipment. Also contributing to 
the urgency of BDN shutdown is the fact that most of the remaining 
education benefit payment systems began development and were 
implemented in the 1970's using outdated programming tools and 
techniques that are no longer viable. The human resource pool is aging 
out and finding new developers is very difficult. As a result, BDN 
costs VA in excess of $20M+ per year which is compounded by an 
increasing scarcity of replacement parts and human resources. The 
amalgamation of these challenges has subsequently delayed the 
overarching ability to apply technical solutions to increase automation 
throughput, which impacts the requirement for maintaining current level 
of full-time employees to manually process Education claims. 
Additionally, the current contractual adjustment allows for the 
inclusion of automation improvements not found in the initial contract.
    VA is also navigating through external dependencies and complex 
integrations with DoD's information, namely VADIR. VA is taking an 
agile approach to be flexible in addressing service changes in VADIR 
that impact critical systems integration and data ingestion. Due to 
service changes in the way data is delivered within VADIR, a higher 
rate of off-ramping resulted, which occurs when a claim is removed from 
the automated process and reverts to manual processing. Consequently, 
automation rates trended toward 49 percent, which was a drop from the 
increased rates that had been achieved by the Managed Service. 
Automation of Post-9/11 GI Bill claims is fluctuating due to these 
ongoing VADIR service changes, but rates are expected to return to 
higher levels over the next several months. VA is already seeing this 
happen as automation rates have returned to the mid-50s percentile 
range previously mentioned. Additionally, VA is developing a permanent 
solution to the excess off-ramping by incorporating additional service 
data from VADIR.
    These back-end system improvements are improving claims processing, 
reducing redundancies, and enhancing the overall GI Bill experience for 
students as well as VA's partners. In line with its overall program 
objectives, VA is continuing its commitment to measuring and improving 
automation of Post-9/11 GI Bill claims and will continue to take an 
agile approach to address and navigate complex external dependencies.

DGIB Releases

    Since March 2021, VA has deployed six major releases and several 
smaller releases to modernize GI Bill services and deliver benefits 
faster, provide better customer service and strengthen its compliance 
and oversight activities.

Release 1: Successful Legislation Implementation

    On July 31, 2021, VA successfully rolled out its first DGIB 
release, which implemented requirements associated with the Johnny 
Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans Health Care and Benefits 
Improvement Act of 2020, and added functionality to increase 
automation. Most notably, the release incorporated legislative updates 
which included providing a simple and secure method for non-college 
degree (NCD) students to verify monthly enrollment via text, a desired 
method based on user feedback. VA's updates incorporated changes for 
five provisions of the law: Section 1001: Rogers STEM Scholarship 
improvements; Section 1005: Requirements for In-State Tuition; Section 
1010: Monthly Enrollment Verification; Section 1019: Overpayments to 
Eligible Persons or Veterans; and Section 1020: Improvements to 
Limitation on Certain Advertising, Sales and enrollment practices. 
Implementation of the Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans 
Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act of 2020 required multiple, 
complex IT updates during an unprecedented pandemic and demonstrated 
VA's ability to modernize while systematically implementing critical 
pieces of legislation impacting GI Bill beneficiaries.

Release 2: Launching the DGIB Managed Service

    On September 29, 2021, just 6 months into the DGIB contract, VA 
activated the DGIB Managed Service, providing for improved processing 
of Post-9/11 GI Bill supplemental claims and marking a major step in 
the modernization journey. This involved migrating data from VA's 
legacy environment so that VCEs could process Post-9/11 GI Bill 
benefits in the DGIB Managed Service platform. The Managed Service 
enables VA to be better prepared to initiate end-to-end updates, 
minimize downtime, accommodate agile decision-making, more quickly 
respond to legislative changes and reduce manual and redundant 
processes. With Release 2, VA took additional major steps in 
transforming GI Bill claims processing. As VA continues to bring legacy 
systems into its Managed Service, efficiency and user experience will 
continue to improve for VA employees and Veterans alike.

Release 3: Introducing Enrollment Verification via Email

    On January 15, 2022, VA expanded the rollout of Section 1010 of the 
Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans Health Care and Benefits 
Improvement Act of 2020 to students attending Institutions of Higher 
Learning, added an email verification option, and deployed additional 
capabilities designed to make enrollment-related processes faster and 
simpler than ever before. With this release, over 300,000 GI Bill 
students are now able to verify their enrollment status each month via 
email or text message to receive their monthly housing allowance and/or 
kicker payments. This release expanded upon VA's successful rollout of 
text-message verification to the NCD facility population (approximately 
an additional 30,000 GI Bill students) in August 2021. Additionally, 
release 3 enhanced system capabilities to refine and improve automation 
of supplemental claims processing for Post-9/11 GI Bill students.

Release 4: Veteran Employment Through Technology Education Courses (VET 
TEC) Managed Service Go-Live

    On April 16, 2022, VA deployed Release 4 of the DGIB, providing 
additional Post-9/11 GI Bill supplemental claims processing 
improvements by removing certain off-ramps and decreasing manual 
processing actions for VCEs to enable faster claims processing. This 
release also migrated the processing of VET TEC claims to the Managed 
Service, which includes entry of VET TEC applications, calculation of 
VET TEC awards for enrollments and terminations with and without 
amendments and manual upload of letters for VET TEC claimants. This 
will result in improved processing of VET TEC claims.

Release 5: Improved Application Experience for First-Time Applicants

    On August 20, 2022, VA made applying for the Post-9/11 GI Bill on 
VA.gov easier than ever for eligible Veterans and Service members who 
have verified their identity through ID.me or Login.gov and are 
applying for the first time. By streamlining and automating the Post-9/
11 GI Bill application experience, VA is now able to pre-fill service 
history for some Veterans and Service Members and provide them with 
eligibility decisions within seconds, and give them quick access to 
digital copies of eligibility letters and a better user experience with 
intuitive designs.

Release 6: Enrollment Manager Launch

    On March 4, 2023, VA successfully launched EM, which replaced VA-
ONCE. This new system modernizes the process for SCOs to certify and 
submit student enrollments, streamlines user experience, and improves 
claims processing. Since its launch, over 10,000 education providers 
have used EM to process more than 1 million enrollments.

Future State

    The future State of the DGIB is driven by the people who support 
and receive benefits from the GI Bill program, leveraging human-
centered design (HCD). The end-users - including Veterans and their 
families - are at the center of the experience. The future state will 
seek to deliver the experience end users desire, by identifying both 
pain points and the experiences they enjoy when interacting with other 
websites and commercial entities. DGIB leverages the HCD process to 
inform updates to the program roadmap. To support this, HCD User 
Feedback Sessions are conducted with GI Bill students, SCOs, State 
Approving Agencies (SAAs) and internal VA staff to understand user 
experience, pain points and areas for improvement and a research 
readout was created to summarize findings. This feedback informs the 
design stage where ideas are designed to address pain points and 
opportunities during concepting and sketching sessions. Before moving 
on to development, testing and validation of prototypes with different 
internal and external users is completed to measure success and 
feasibility of designs. The benefit of DGIB's HCD approach continuously 
puts the end-user at the center of the modernization and experience 
that we are creating. In 2024, VA plans to deploy further business 
capabilities including:

      CH 33 Automation Improvement

      Approval Manager

      Web Enabled Approval Management System (WEAMS) 
Consolidation

      Workload Manager

      Image Management System (TIMS)/eFolder Migration

      Chapter 33 eMPWR-VA Interface

      Payment Service

    VA is developing a new capability, Approval Manager, to replace 
WEAMS, as we continue to move functionality into the DGIB Managed 
Service. Approval Manager will be the new system for Education Liaison 
Representatives, SAAs, and VA staff to approve new programs for 
education benefits. Approval Manager will help improve the end user 
interface, save Education Service staff time generating Compliance 
Survey Worksheets, and streamline the profile for each school, 
including a consolidated list of all SCO and Point of Contact types, as 
well as a single page that displays all programs by approval status. 
Additionally, Approval Manager's connection with Enrollment Manager 
will help more quickly reflect any changes to a school or program in 
Enrollment Manager.
    Another new capability, Workload Manager, will replace TIMS as the 
new method for VCEs to view and manage workload of GI Bill claims that 
need processing. This system will connect with My Education Benefits 
(the VA.gov site where GI Bill students go to apply or receive updates 
on their education benefits) and Benefits Manager (a future DGIB 
microsystem in which VCEs will create and update claims) to transform 
how they are assigned tasks. Workload Manager will bridge the gap from 
a Veteran's application to the claims processing end of Benefits 
Manager. A VCE will review new claims in Workload Manager, create work 
credits, and route it to Benefits Manager for processing.
    The DGIB team is continuing to make enhancements which contribute 
to direct, online, one-stop access to education benefit resources. 
These changes will continue the evolution of a Managed Service that 
increases efficiency and reduces manual processes, allowing VA to focus 
more on serving Veterans and their families.

Reassessment

    VA is committed to ensuring the DGIB program and continued system 
improvement and upgrades provide optimal support of student Veterans 
and the SCOs that support them. Additionally, VA will continue to be an 
effective steward of all taxpayer provided resources. VA has worked 
with Accenture Federal Services on a modification to the current 
contract to meet emerging requirements, clarify testing capabilities 
and add additional integrations to other VA systems. VA has reviewed a 
proposal from the vendor to ensure that the needs of VA are met and the 
impacts to cost and schedule are well understood. VA is working toward 
a course of action to address cost, risk and business-related concerns 
and will continue to work closely with AFS to ensure VA's needs are 
addressed. Although we are proceeding with a sense of urgency, 
sufficient time will be allotted to validate that the key objectives 
will be met.

Communications with Partners

    VA continues to advance its ability to effectively speak directly 
with students, schools, and other partners. To increase awareness of 
how DGIB releases positively impact VA GI Bill students' and partners' 
experiences, it is making targeted outreach efforts to effectively 
communicate GI Bill modernization updates to partners. With an 
omnichannel outreach strategy, VA is amplifying awareness and 
increasing adoption of complex IT and policy changes. In the months 
leading up to the deployment of Enrollment Manager, VA reached out to 
over 91,000 SCOs and administrators through 68 emails. VA used both the 
SCO in the Know and SAA newsletters, to amplify tips and IT updates for 
using EM effectively. VA also closely monitored questions that the 
Education Call Center (ECC) receives to address students' and SCO's 
most pressing questions in VA communication efforts and help alleviate 
ECC call volume.
    In Winter 2022, VA EDU hosted three SCO EM Soft Launch Events at GI 
Bill schools to validate Enrollment Manager during the transition 
period. The schools included American University, George Mason 
University, and GT Aviation. VA was able to identify required system 
updates in real-time, triaging and addressing them with the DGIB 
development team. All updates were taken back, and several were 
addressed immediately while others were addressed for implementation in 
future releases. VA also conducted six virtual training sessions 
covering the EM experience, providing SCOs an opportunity to ask 
questions and get a final look at Enrollment Manager before it went 
live.
    VA Education Service also recognized that the successful rollout of 
EM required not only the system to be up and running, but pre-and-post 
go-live support for end users to drive system adoption. The ECC alone 
was not enough to support SCOs questions; SCOs needed system experts 
who could walk through their questions with them. In March 2023 in 
tandem with Enrollment Manager go-live, VA stood up a Customer 
Experience Group (CEG) to triage questions and issues in real time. 
Externally, the CEG connected with the SCO hotline and provided a means 
to escalate certain SCO questions to a one-on-one over-the-shoulder 
setting using Adobe Captivate; internally, VA had daily meetings with 
stakeholders to work together to identify, discuss, triage and work 
through issues. During its 2-month run, the CEG responded to over 9,700 
calls from SCOs, initiated more than 3,000 Adobe Connect sessions to 
provide more detailed assistance, and created over 100 Service Now 
tickets to track potential IT updates required in Enrollment Manager.
    The rollout of the new system, including first call resolution of 
SCO questions and issues, garnered accolades from SCOs and Veterans 
Service Organizations. One SCO who called the CEG and worked together 
to submit an enrolment said, ``Is that it? Wow, that's amazing, this is 
so simple. Are you sure there isn't more buttons to press? Enrollment 
Manager is one and done!'' In the month leading up to the Enrollment 
Manager deployment, VA's GI Bill Enrollment Manager videos reached over 
11,000 views on VBA's YouTube channel and 2,500 individuals on the 
Post-9/11 GI Bill Facebook page. In addition, over 220 SCOs posted 
comments and questions regarding the Digital GI Bill's newest 
interface, Enrollment Manager. Through VA's outreach efforts and 
communication platforms, it is committed to informing its partners and 
listening to Veterans' needs.
    In tandem with its modernization efforts, VA EDU delivers 
communications and messaging to students and schools via multiple 
channels. VA EDU produces newsletters for students, schools, and SAAs 
as an opportunity to streamline delivery of GI Bill updates but also to 
provide additional services and resources from VA. Past newsletters 
have included updates to the Veterans Crisis Line, legislative updates 
and VA hiring opportunities. Communication campaigns are done via 
email, video, blogs, training updates and social media to ensure 
students and schools are receiving information in multiple ways, but 
also through different channels to increase its effectiveness and 
awareness.

Conclusion

    Chairmen, VA has made tremendous strides in the administration of 
VA education benefits in recent years through modernization efforts. 
Many lessons have been learned along the way, and VA continues to seek 
feedback from partners and find ways to improve education benefits 
delivery through modernization. VA looks forward to continued 
opportunities to work with Congress to address Veterans' concerns and 
provide a better GI Bill experience. VA appreciates the support of 
these Committees as VA continues its effort to modernize VA educational 
assistance programs. This concludes my testimony. My colleagues and I 
look forward to responding to any questions you or other Members of the 
Subcommittees may have.
                                 ______
                                 

                   Prepared Statement of Troy Mueller

    Chairman Van Orden and Rosendale, Ranking Members Cherfilus-
McCormick and Levin, and other Members of the Subcommittees, thank you 
for the opportunity to testify before you today on matters relating to 
the Department of Veteran's Affairs (VA) Digital GI Bill program. 
Successful modernization of legacy IT is critical to improving the 
veteran experience. MITRE very much appreciates the opportunity to 
share our insight from our work on this critical program.
    MITRE is a 501(c)(3) not-for-profit corporation. We are chartered 
to operate in the public interest, which includes operating federally 
funded research and development centers, or FFRDCs, on behalf of 
federal agency sponsors. We currently operate six FFRDCs. The Center 
for Enterprise Modernization was established in 1998 by the Department 
of Treasury and we have been proud to support many modernization 
efforts under that FFRDC, which is now jointly sponsored by the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), Department of Commerce and the 
Social Security Administration (SSA). Currently, I am a Department Head 
in MITRE's Center for Government Effectiveness and Modernization, 
responsible for directing our support to modernization of benefits and 
service delivery across all Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) 
lines of business. The other primary sponsors for which MITRE operates 
FFRDCs include the Department of Defense; the Centers for Medicare and 
Medicaid Services at the Department of Health and Human Services; the 
National Institute of Standards and Technology which operates the 
National Cybersecurity Center of Excellence; the Federal Aviation 
Administration; and the Department of Homeland Security.
    As an Air Force veteran, I know firsthand that serving in the 
military opens the door to many benefits including the life-changing 
opportunity to access higher education. Education benefits span those 
entering the service through officer training programs, tuition 
assistance and fully funded degree programs while on active duty, and 
the GI Bill and other education programs for veterans and their 
families. I myself have benefited from each of these programs. I 
received an Air Force ROTC scholarship for my undergraduate degree. I 
completed my master's degree under tuition assistance, and I earned a 
doctorate via the Post-9/11 GI Bill. If not for these benefits, I would 
not be sitting here before you today. Supporting the VA's mission is 
not merely a job or an assignment, it's personal. It's my way of giving 
back.

A Trusted Partner

    MITRE has been a partner with Education Service since 2008. We were 
brought on board to support the implementation of The Post-9/11 
Veterans' Educational Assistance Act of 2008 (Post-9/11 GI Bill). MITRE 
worked alongside Education Service, its VBA partners, and the Office of 
Information Technology (OIT) to help drive development of a new system 
to process Post-9/11 GI Bill claims.
    Education Service reached out to MITRE again in 2019 to prepare for 
an extensive modernization of their claims processing systems. MITRE 
worked with Education Service to draw up the Modernization Value 
Proposition to include the path forward for modernizing claims 
processing and customer service, providing direct, online, one-stop 
access to GI Bill benefits and information. Speed and simplicity are 
essential for veterans trying to access their benefits while facing 
college application deadlines. This modernization vision is a 
transition to a holistic service that improves user experiences across 
the entire internal and external environment.
    MITRE's role has focused on providing strategic advice, guidance, 
and assistance in the areas of systems engineering, program 
integration, and organizational change. Representative activities 
include formulating a concept of operations, eliciting operational 
requirements, co-creating acquisition artifacts, developing the life 
cycle cost estimate, establishing and refining program governance and 
management processes, assessing organizational impacts of 
modernization, and providing recommendations to improve stakeholder 
communications and outreach. Most recently, MITRE worked closely with 
Education Service to establish a new Program Management Office to 
ensure effective oversight and governance for the program by developing 
standard operating procedures, implementing new change control 
processes, developing a change management roadmap and communications 
plan, crafting customer experience group implementation plans, and 
conducting PMO capability gap and staffing analyses.

A Record of Accomplishment

    Over the past three-plus years, the Digital GI Bill program has had 
many accomplishments delivering six major releases, including providing 
the ability for same-day education benefits eligibility decisions, 
allowing access to digital copies of Certificate of Eligibility (COE) 
and decision letters, and deployment of Enrollment Manager, a 
capability that compressed the time of claim creation from school 
inputs to less than 5 minutes.
    The integrated DGIB team is extremely sensitive to the impact of 
time on veterans and beneficiaries. Delays in processing could drive a 
semester or entire academic year-long delay for some students as some 
degree completion or accelerated graduate programs only start once a 
year. These delays are not just start dates for school, they are delays 
in pursuing dreams and achieving life goals.
    In addition to program delivery accomplishments, the VA has 
demonstrated gains in maturity regarding program governance, execution, 
and decision-making. In September 2018, MITRE was tasked to conduct an 
independent technical assessment of the implementation of Sections 107 
and 501 of the Colmery Act, or Forever GI Bill, which resulted in 20 
recommendations. The acceptance and implementation of these 
recommendations contributed not only to the December 1, 2019, on-time 
delivery of capability, but these lessons of cross-VA partnership, 
accountability, and bias for action have influenced the structure and 
execution of the DGIB program and other VBA modernization programs.
    Programs of this size and complexity intended to modernize an 
environment of multiple legacy systems with numerous dependencies in an 
enterprise that includes parallel modernization efforts are never 
without risks. VBA to its credit is currently conducting a strategic 
review of this program as part of an effort to identify and evaluate 
opportunities to improve delivery of benefits and services. This review 
is an example of using governance, processes, tools, and experienced 
staff to illuminate challenges, craft options, and propose adjustments 
and improvements that will increase the probability of future success. 
The outcome of this review will position the VA to maintain a rhythm of 
capability delivery while ensuring good stewardship of the taxpayers' 
dollars.

Recommendations

    Recognizing that there will always be challenges, complexity, and 
risks, I have two recommendations to share with you.
    The first recommendation is to encourage the VA to continue to 
mature its contracting and program management capabilities and ensure 
proper allocation and alignment of resources with demonstrated 
knowledge, skills, and experience to appropriate programs and projects. 
A contracting officer with extensive experience procuring commodities 
is not the same as one who has worked on and led development and 
execution of exquisite acquisition strategies for large, complex 
transformational programs impacting entire enterprises. The same can be 
said of program managers. Both are scarce resources that require 
agencies to be deliberate about career development and assignments.
    The second recommendation is for the House Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs and Senate Committee on Veterans' Affairs to continue the 
direct monthly engagement of their staff with Education Service. This 
meeting, which started during the Colmery Act implementation, has 
become a critical part of the battle rhythm of the DGIB program, just 
as important as program increment planning sessions, technical working 
groups, and program governance meetings including the executive 
steering committee. From our vantage point, these monthly engagements 
promote transparency, provide the opportunity for dialog, and 
contribute to the momentum of risk and issue identification, 
mitigation, and decision-making on the program.
    In closing, let me just note that of MITRE's roughly 10,000 
personnel, over 1,600 are Veterans. There are few duties that our 
employees consider more noble and consequential than honoring, through 
our support for the VA, the service and sacrifice of our nation's men 
and women in uniform. On behalf of the entire MITRE team, I greatly 
appreciate the opportunity to come before you today, and I look forward 
to your questions.
                                 ______
                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Kyle Michl

    Chairman Van Orden, Chairman Rosendale, Ranking Member Levin, 
Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick, and members of the Subcommittees on 
Economic Opportunity and Technology Modernization, thank you for 
inviting me to testify at today's hearing. I am Kyle Michl, the Senior 
Delivery Lead for the Digital GI Bill (``DGIB'') Delivery Program and 
the Chief Innovation Officer of Accenture Federal Services (``Accenture 
Federal'' or the ``Company''). We are proud to testify here today with 
our client and partner, the U.S. Department of Veterans' Affairs 
(``VA''), and our colleagues from MITRE, on our joint efforts to 
modernize and improve GI Bill claims processing for beneficiaries 
including Veterans, service members, and their dependents.

Accenture Federal Services

    Accenture Federal is a leading U.S. federal services company and 
subsidiary of Accenture LLP. For more than four decades, we have helped 
clients in defense, national security, public safety, civilian, and 
military health organizations take on the demands of their mission, 
mandate, or moment. We put our clients at the forefront of change, 
harnessing it to solve the country's mission-critical challenges. Our 
teams bring the most advanced R&D, latest technologies, and human-
centered design together with the power and commercial innovation of 
Accenture's global network to help clients achieve desired outcomes and 
build a digital core that fuels continuous innovation and creates value 
for their customers, workforce, and partners. Mission success is at the 
heart of everything we do, and we are privileged to advance our 
clients' priorities, particularly as we serve our Veteran community 
through our work with VA.
    Accenture Federal has a longstanding partnership with VA 
collaborating on programs that deliver meaningful outcomes for 
Veterans, service members, and their families. For example, Accenture 
Federal was selected to successfully implement the Harry W. Colmery 
Act--delivering mission-critical VA Education Service claims processing 
that Veterans rely on for timely, accurate disbursement of payments. We 
support the VA Home Loan Program by providing development, security, 
and operations of Loan Guaranty (``LGY'') systems, and platform 
configuration and implementation alongside VA's Office of Information 
and Technology's (``OIT's'') Service Management Office.
    I have worked for Accenture for 26 years and had the privilege to 
serve our government clients for nearly 20 years. I have been a member 
of our federal leadership team since July 2020 when I became Accenture 
Federal's Chief Innovation Officer. In that role, I focus on bringing 
the best of emerging technologies to help our clients modernize and 
transform their business. Over the years, I have delivered large scale 
programs for both civilian and defense agencies and took on the Senior 
Delivery Lead role for the VA DGIB program in May 2022.

DGIB Program History and Successes

    Since March 2021, Accenture Federal has supported VA under the DGIB 
Delivery Program to improve access for Veterans to the educational 
benefits they have earned. Together, we are streamlining education 
claims processing and transforming systems for VA's Veterans Benefits 
Administration (``VBA'') through human-centered design, service 
modernization, analytics, training, communications, and other services. 
With DGIB, we are creating simple digital experiences to help Veterans 
and their families complete their educational journeys more 
efficiently. In addition to transforming the user experience, the DGIB 
Program enables implementation of legislation in a more rapid and agile 
manner, including the Veterans Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act 
of 2020. Below are examples of how this program is serving Veterans:

      Continuous Delivery of Meaningful Outcomes: VA and 
Accenture Federal have delivered six major releases, as well as a 
regular cadence of smaller, agile releases to our platform. With each 
release, VA provides requirements for Accenture Federal to implement 
within VA's complex ecosystem of policy, procedures, and integrated 
systems. In addition to providing enhanced Veteran and stakeholder 
services, these releases are aimed at driving automation and improving 
time to receipt of benefits. Together, VA and Accenture Federal have 
made significant strides in areas including user experience, service 
enhancements, program insights, and processing efficiencies. Release 
spotlights include:

          Intuitive User Experience & Rapid Decisions for 
        Eligible First-Time Beneficiaries: We delivered new 
        functionality for beneficiaries applying for their Post-9/11 GI 
        Bill benefits for the first time. Through new, intuitive 
        designs and updated functionalities--such as a pre-filled 
        service history function--we have streamlined and simplified 
        the process to apply for Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, making it 
        easier than ever to complete. By reducing eligibility 
        processing from 30 days down to a matter of minutes, as well as 
        providing the ability to retrieve digital copies of decision 
        letters, we are helping applicants start their educational 
        journey faster than ever before. For the first time in the GI 
        Bill's 79-year history, these enhancements automate original 
        claims.

          Providing Schools Modernized Claim Capabilities: 
        After beneficiaries start their educational journey, School 
        Certifying Officials (``SCOs'') are the front door to 
        continuing and completing their educational goals. To better 
        serve SCOs' Veteran-focused mission, we introduced Enrollment 
        Manager--replacing a decades old legacy system--streamlining 
        the process to submit enrollments for students. More than 
        15,000 SCOs have accessed Enrollment Manager since launch. The 
        new system has reduced the number of steps to enter an 
        enrollment to as few as five (5) clicks, and, already, more 
        than 1.4M enrollments have been submitted. Most importantly, 
        SCOs now have more time to focus on what matters most--helping 
        Veterans, service members, and their families meet and exceed 
        their educational goals.

          24/7 Chat Support for Schools: With the release of 
        the new GI Bill Chatbot, SCOs now have live 24/7 support and 
        quick access to answers and key information. Since the release, 
        there have been over 7,000 sessions with SCOs resulting in a 
        decreased number of calls to the VA Education Call Center (ECC) 
        and real-time triage of questions from schools. This new 
        functionality helps SCOs rapidly complete accurate claims to 
        support beneficiaries.

          Powering Meaningful Employment for Veterans: We 
        migrated the processing of VET TEC claims--a pilot program 
        aimed at connecting Veterans to with leading technology 
        training programs and employment--to DGIB. The results are 
        improved processing of claims and monitoring of Veteran 
        training and attainment of meaningful employment.

          Omni-Channel Communication Outreach to GI Bill 
        Beneficiaries: By adding new email and text message enrollment 
        verification options, we reduced the risk of students having 
        their payments withheld, all without overwhelming the VA 
        Education Call Center (``ECC''). This implements part of 
        Section 1010 within the Veterans Health Care and Benefits 
        Improvement Act of 2020, which requires students to verify 
        enrollment for housing allowance and/or kicker payments. This 
        is just one example of many agile legislative implementation 
        successes.

      Demonstrated Claim Automation Improvement: By automating 
the first original claim in VA Education Service history, DGIB 
increased original automation rates from 0 percent to 32 percent in May 
2023. For supplemental claims, the automation rate in May 2023 was 62 
percent, 13 percentage points higher than the same month last year and 
27 percentage points higher than when DGIB efforts began. Notably, DGIB 
achieved a record high supplemental claim automation rate of 68 percent 
in February 2023.

      Modernized Legacy Systems: With streamlined VA processes 
and our new technology platform, we have achieved a 99.99 percent 
system availability rate for claims processing and we are helping VA 
decommission antiquated legacy IT systems to improve the speed and 
accuracy of its education claims processes. We have sunset a number of 
legacy systems, including retiring two of the three largest legacy 
systems. As part of our modernization efforts, we have exceeded DGIB's 
three-year IT infrastructure reduction targets. The improvements 
provide enhanced user experience, near real-time eligibility and 
benefits information, and more timely and accurate delivery of 
education services to hundreds of thousands of beneficiaries annually.

      Analytic Insights Powering Service Improvements: A 
recently deployed new DGIB analytics capability provides several 
benefits, such as enabling certain reports to be completed in hours 
rather than days. This new capability acts as a single source of data 
for ad hoc requests, and providing a foundation for AI use cases that 
may include claims optimization, operations, user experience, 
automation, fraud detection, compliance, and oversight.

      Award Winning Transformation Approaches: Working with VA, 
we are reimagining the GI Bill experience in other ways by driving 
transparency and outcomes and keeping stakeholders informed. To help 
communicate awareness, impact, and outcomes, we have applied an omni-
channel, comprehensive, data-driven approach for key stakeholder groups 
(e.g., beneficiaries, SCOs, employers, State Approving Agencies 
(``SAAs''), Congress, Veterans Service Organizations (``VSOs''), and 
media outlets). This includes over 500 email campaigns, 35 videos, in-
person outreach events, and hundreds of social media campaigns to 
successfully reach nearly two million stakeholders. The results--
recognized by the 2022 International Marcom and PR Daily Awards--have 
successfully increased the awareness of the GI Bill, further enabling 
more Veterans, service members, and families to achieve their 
educational goals, increasing their opportunities and lifetime 
earnings.

Path Forward

    A large complex program like DGIB has numerous dependencies,\1\ 
both within and external to the program. Recognizing this, VA and 
Accenture Federal have established governance processes to identify 
risks early and assess impacts. Accenture Federal worked jointly with 
VA to outline and agree to an updated roadmap, key dependencies, and 
target schedule. Subsequently, gaps were identified in the availability 
and number of planned VA testing environments and the timelines for 
external non-DGIB system development. Together, VA and Accenture 
Federal have continued to make progress on DGIB milestones while 
jointly working through options to address the gaps in these 
dependencies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ A dependency refers to any number of prerequisite requirements 
for contract performance. Numerous contract dependencies exist with 
respect to other VA programs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We are actively engaged with VA to replan future releases and 
address challenges to the path forward. We have worked closely with VA 
to outline potential options for a path forward while continuing to 
fulfill program commitments. Given the significant progress made 
jointly with VA on future release capabilities, we are optimistic our 
partnership with VA will continue to provide world-class modernized 
services to Veteran beneficiaries. This includes deploying developed 
capabilities like Approval Manager, Workload Manager, and Benefits 
Manager that will replace aging legacy systems with modern technologies 
and digital experiences.

Conclusion

    We remain steadfast in our commitment to deliver modernization, 
improve user experience through human centered design, seamlessly 
implement legislation, execute a clearly defined communications and 
training strategy, and integrate legacy IT systems to make a dramatic 
difference in the lives of hundreds of thousands of Veterans, service 
members, and their families. Through the use of innovative 
technologies, we are strengthening the foundation that provides agile, 
rapid deployments, improved automation, and enhanced data insight using 
machine learning. We are proud to help VA bring to life its truly bold 
DGIB vision. This transformation puts Veterans at the heart of the 
experience and positions VA as a leader in providing benefits. Our 
focus will always be on delivering the best outcomes for our client, 
for Veterans and for the American taxpayer.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

                                 [all]