[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                   THE FUTURE OF FAMS: EVALUATING THE
                      FEDERAL AIR MARSHAL MISSION
=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               before the

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                      TRANSPORTATION AND MARITIME
                                SECURITY

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                           SEPTEMBER 24, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-80
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
                                     



               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                    

        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

59-982 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2025






























                     COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY

                 Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas             Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi, 
Clay Higgins, Louisiana                Ranking Member
Michael Guest, Mississippi           Eric Swalwell, California
Dan Bishop, North Carolina           J. Luis Correa, California
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida           Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
August Pfluger, Texas                Shri Thanedar, Michigan
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York        Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia      Glenn Ivey, Maryland
Tony Gonzales, Texas                 Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Nick LaLota, New York                Robert Garcia, California
Mike Ezell, Mississippi              Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Anthony D'Esposito, New York         Robert Menendez, New Jersey
Laurel M. Lee, Florida               Thomas R. Suozzi, New York
Morgan Luttrell, Texas               Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
Dale W. Strong, Alabama              LaMonica McIver, New Jersey
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma              Yvette D. Clarke, New York
Elijah Crane, Arizona
                      Stephen Siao, Staff Director
                  Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
                       Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
                       
                                 ------                                

          SUBCOMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND MARITIME SECURITY

                  Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida, Chairman
Clay Higgins, Louisiana              Shri Thanedar, Michigan, Ranking 
Nick LaLota, New York                  Member
Laurel M. Lee, Florida               Robert Garcia, California
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex     Timothy M. Kennedy, New York
  officio)                           Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi 
                                       (ex officio)
                  Vacancy, Subcommittee Staff Director
           Alex Marston, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director


























           
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               Statements

The Honorable Carlos A. Gimenez, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Florida, and Chairman, Subcommittee on 
  Transportation and Maritime Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     1
  Prepared Statement.............................................     2
The Honorable Shri Thanedar, a Representative in Congress From 
  the State of Michigan, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on 
  Transportation and Maritime Security:
  Oral Statement.................................................     3
  Prepared Statement.............................................     4
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress 
  From the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on 
  Homeland Security:
  Prepared Statement.............................................     5

                               Witnesses

Mr. John A. Casareti, Founder and President, Air Marshal 
  Association:
  Oral Statement.................................................     6
  Joint Prepared Statement.......................................     7
Ms. Tina Won Sherman, PhD, Director, Homeland Security and 
  Justice, U.S. Government Accountability Office:
  Oral Statement.................................................     9
  Joint Prepared Statement.......................................    10

 
                  THE FUTURE OF FAMS: EVALUATING THE
                      FEDERAL AIR MARSHAL MISSION

                              ----------                              

                      Tuesday, September 24, 2024

             U.S. House of Representatives,
                    Committee on Homeland Security,
                        Subcommittee on Transportation and 
                                         Maritime Security,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:11 a.m., in 
room 310 Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Carlos A. Gimenez 
(Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Gimenez, Higgins, LaLota, Lee, 
Thanedar, and Kennedy.
    Mr. Gimenez. Good morning. The Committee on Homeland 
Security, Subcommittee on Transportation and Maritime Security 
will come to order. Without objection, the Chairman may declare 
the subcommittee in recess at any point.
    Today's hearing will examine Federal Air Marshal Service's 
mission set and the future of the agency. I now recognize 
myself for an opening statement.
    Today's subcommittee is examining the Federal Air Marshal 
Service and its role in securing the commercial aviation sector 
of the United States. Terrorist organizations and rogue nation-
states have targeted the commercial aviation sector since its 
inception.
    In the 1970's and the 1980's, terrorists carried out 
notorious hijackings across the world, including the 1977 
hijacking of Lufthansa flight 181 by the Popular Front for the 
Liberation of Palestine, and the 1985 hijacking of Transworld 
Airlines flight 847 by Hezbollah.
    While most prior incidents involved hijackers seizing 
passengers and crew as hostages and demanded ransom for their 
release, the nature of the threats shifted dramatically with 
the al-Qaeda attacks on September 11, 2001. As the nature of 
the threat evolved, so has the role of the Federal air 
marshals.
    While the U.S. Government has deployed air marshals on 
commercial flights since the early 1960's, today's Federal Air 
Marshal Service was formally established in response to the 
September 11 attacks.
    After September 11, waves of volunteers stepped forward 
from other law enforcement agencies and from all walks of life 
to sign up for the air marshal mission and the organization 
became part of the newly-established Transportation Safety 
Administration.
    Twenty years later, after the September 11 attacks, a 
threat to the commercial aviation sector continues to evolve. 
Fortunately, our capabilities to counter terrorist threats 
against commercial aviation have also advanced. There is a 
vetting of potential terrorists in between when an airline 
ticket is purchased and the day of the flight gives law 
enforcement more time to foil terrorist plots before they can 
be carried out.
    TSA is continuing to improve its screening equipment, and 
my colleagues and I on this subcommittee continue to advocate 
for the agency to speed up its deployment of new technology to 
ensure airports have modern capable systems at their security 
checkpoints.
    TSA also offers training like the Federal flight desk 
officer program to airline flight crews to respond to in-flight 
threats. It is critical that we are proactive in staying ahead 
of the threat and continually look for opportunity to sharpen 
our capabilities and advance our technologies. In this context 
I believe it is essential to re-evaluate the role of the 
Federal air marshals in aviation security. We're concerned that 
air marshals are not being utilized effectively.
    It was recently reported that former Congresswoman Tulsi 
Gabbard was monitored by Federal air marshals during commercial 
flights because her name appeared on TSA's Quiet Skies Program. 
The Quiet Skies Program means to prevent terrorist attacks not 
only to surveil law-abiding citizens traveling on commercial 
flights.
    Additionally, I'm concerned about the deployment of Federal 
air marshals to the Southwest Border. While TSA has assured the 
committee that these deployments did not impact normal FAMS 
operations, it is troubling to me that the border crises have 
escalated to the point of needing additional personnel surge to 
the border. It's long past time for the Biden-Harris 
administration to get this crisis under control.
    Two weeks ago we commemorated the 23rd anniversary of the 
September 11 attacks. In the wake of this somber occasion, it 
is important that the subcommittee continue to work proactively 
to secure the commercial aviation sector and prevent an attack 
like that from ever happening again. This subcommittee must 
utilize its oversight authority over the Federal Air Marshal 
Service to ensure that taxpayer dollars are being used 
efficiently and effectively in the mission to return terrorists 
and other criminals from targeting the commercial aviations 
sector. We must ensure that the Federal Air Marshal Service 
faithfully and effectively fulfills its mission to safeguard 
the passenger aviation sector.
    Thank you to our witnesses, Ms. Won Sherman and Mr. 
Casaretti for appearing before this subcommittee. I look 
forward to your testimony.
    [The statement of Chairman Gimenez follows:]
    
                Statement of Chairman Carlos A. Gimenez
                
    Today, this subcommittee is examining the Federal Air Marshal 
Service and its role in securing the commercial aviation sector in the 
United States.
    Terrorist organizations and rogue nation-states have targeted the 
commercial aviation sector since its inception.
    In the 1970's and 1980's, terrorists carried out notorious 
hijackings across the world, including the 1977 hijacking of Lufthansa 
Flight 181 by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and the 
1985 hijacking of Trans World Airlines Flight 847 by Hezbollah.
    While most prior incidents involved hijackers seizing passengers 
and crew as hostages and demanding ransom for their release, the nature 
of the threat shifted dramatically with the al-Qaeda attacks on 
September 11, 2001.
    As the nature of the threat evolved, so has the role of Federal air 
marshals.
    While the United States Government has deployed air marshals on 
commercial flights since the early 1960's, today's Federal Air Marshal 
Service was formally established in response to the September 11 
attacks.
    After September 11, waves of volunteers stepped forward from other 
law enforcement agencies and from all walks of life to sign up for the 
air marshal mission, and the organization became part of the newly-
established Transportation Security Administration.
    Twenty-three years after the September 11 attacks, the threat to 
the commercial aviation sector continues to evolve.
    Fortunately, our capabilities to counter terrorist threats against 
commercial aviation have also advanced.
    Diligent vetting of potential terrorists in between when an airline 
ticket is purchased and the day of the flight gives law enforcement 
more time to foil terrorist plots before they can be carried out.
    TSA is continuing to improve its screening equipment, and my 
colleagues and I on this subcommittee continue to advocate for the 
agency to speed up its deployment of new technology to ensure airports 
have modern, capable systems at their security checkpoints.
    TSA also offers trainings like the Federal Flight Deck Officer 
Program to airline flight crews to respond to in-flight threats.
    It is critical that we are proactive in staying ahead of the threat 
and continually look for opportunities to sharpen our capabilities and 
enhance our technologies.
    In this context, I believe it is essential to reevaluate the role 
of Federal air marshals in aviation security.
    I am concerned that air marshals are not being utilized 
effectively.
    It was recently reported that former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard 
was monitored by Federal air marshals during commercial flights because 
her name appeared on TSA's Quiet Skies program.
    The Quiet Skies program aims to prevent terrorist attacks, not 
unduly surveil law-abiding citizens traveling on commercial flights.
    Additionally, I am concerned about the deployments of Federal air 
marshals to the Southwest Border.
    While TSA has assured the committee that these deployments did not 
impact normal FAMS operations, it is troubling to me that the border 
crisis has escalated to the point of needing additional personnel 
surged to the border--it is long past time for the Biden-Harris 
administration to get this crisis under control.
    Two weeks ago, we commemorated the 23rd anniversary of the 
September 11 attacks.
    In wake of this somber occasion, it is important that this 
subcommittee continues to work proactively to secure the commercial 
aviation sector and prevent an attack like that from ever happening 
again.
    This subcommittee must utilize its oversight authority over the 
Federal Air Marshal Service to ensure that taxpayer dollars are being 
used efficiently and effectively in the mission to deter terrorists and 
other criminals from targeting the commercial aviation sector.
    We must ensure that the Federal Air Marshal Service faithfully and 
effectively fulfills its mission to safeguard the passenger aviation 
sector.
    Thank you to our witnesses, Ms. Won Sherman and Mr. Casaretti, for 
appearing before the subcommittee.
    I look forward to your testimony.

    Mr. Gimenez. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the 
gentleman from Michigan, Mr. Thanedar, for his opening 
statement.
    Mr. Thanedar. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Gimenez, 
for holding this hearing today, and thank you to our witnesses 
for being here. We look forward to listening to you and with 
us.
    This is our subcommittee's first hearing since we 
commemorated the anniversary of September 11 attack a couple 
weeks ago, so it is truly time to evaluate the state of Federal 
Air Marshal Service. FAMS have evolved significantly since 
September 11, 2001, when only 33 air marshals were in service 
working under the Federal Aviation Administration.
    In the following months and years, FAMS expanded 
exponentially hiring hundreds and eventually thousands of 
marhals to protect our skies. Today FAMS carry out an essential 
mission every day serving as the last line of defense to secure 
commercial flights for--from terrorist attacks.
    TSA has evolved its methods for assigning FAMS to flights 
to ensure coverage is driven by its regions and risk 
assessment. Thanks to the leadership of Ranking Member Thompson 
and the support of Congress, TSA has also evolved--paid for 
FAMS along with the rest of the TSA work force finally, placing 
employees on equal footing with counterparts at other Federal 
agencies.
    However, other aspects of FAMS have changed little over 
more than 20 years and may be in need of reform. Far too long 
FAMS have voiced dissatisfaction with the day-to-day realities 
of serving as air marshals. The job of an air marshal is 
extremely demanding as FAMS must stay alert and focused during 
long-haul flights, travel on little rest, and spend significant 
time away from loved ones and support networks.
    FAMS has struggled with impacts to their health, including 
their mental health. Tragically, according to TSA data, since 
2002, 16 FAMS have taken their own lives. Sadly, this 
experience is far too common among law enforcement within the 
Department of Homeland Security and throughout the country.
    I'm proud to have co-sponsored Ranking Member Thompson's 
bill, the DHS Suicide Prevention and Resiliency for Law 
Enforcement Act, which would help address the challenges facing 
FAMS and other DHS law enforcement personnel. Congress must 
consider whether FAMS requires additional reforms to protect 
the health and well-being of its employees and ensure the 
ability to continue to secure air travel.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about their 
recommendation for the future of the Federal air marshal 
services.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thanedar follows:]
    
               Statement of Ranking Member Shri Thanedar
               
                           September 24, 2024
                           
    This is our subcommittee's first hearing since we commemorated the 
anniversary of the September 11 attacks a couple weeks ago, so it is a 
fitting time to evaluate the state of the Federal Air Marshal Service. 
FAMS has evolved significantly since September 11, 2001, when only 33 
air marshals were in service, working under the Federal Aviation 
Administration.
    In the following months and years, FAMS expanded exponentially, 
hiring hundreds and eventually thousands of marshals to protect our 
skies. Today, FAMs carry out an essential mission every day, serving as 
the last line of defense to secure commercial flights from terrorist 
attacks. TSA has evolved its methodology for assigning FAMs to flights 
to ensure coverage is driven by intelligence and risk assessments.
    Thanks to the leadership of Ranking Member Thompson and the support 
of Congress, TSA has also evolved pay for FAMs, along with the rest of 
the TSA workforce, finally placing employees on equal footing with 
counterparts at other Federal agencies.
    However, other aspects of the FAMS have changed little over more 
than 20 years and may be in need of reform. For far too long, FAMs have 
voiced dissatisfaction with the day-to-day reality of serving as air 
marshals. The job of an air marshal is extremely demanding, as FAMs 
must stay alert and focused during long-haul flights, travel on little 
rest, and spend significant time away from loved ones and support 
networks.
    FAMs have struggled with impacts to their health, including their 
mental health. Tragically, according to TSA data, since 2002, 16 FAMs 
have taken their own lives. Sadly, this experience is far too common 
among law enforcement within the Department of Homeland Security and 
throughout the country.
    I am proud to cosponsor Ranking Member Thompson's bill, the DHS 
Suicide Prevention and Resiliency for Law Enforcement Act, which would 
help address the challenges facing FAMs and other DHS law enforcement 
personnel. Congress must consider whether FAMS requires additional 
reforms to protect the health and well-being of its employees and 
ensure their ability to continue to secure air travel.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about their 
recommendations for the future of the Federal Air Marshal Service.

    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Ranking Member. Other Members of 
the committee are reminded that opening statements may be 
submitted for the record.
    [The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
    
             Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
             
                           September 24, 2024
                           
    Originally established in 1961 and expanded exponentially the wake 
of 9/11, today the Federal Air Marshal Service employs several thousand 
FAMs who fly armed on domestic and international flights. Every day, 
FAMs protect commercial flights against hijackings, explosive attacks, 
and other terrorist threats.
    I want to express my gratitude to the air marshals who work long 
hours under difficult conditions to help keep the flying public secure. 
We may not be able to thank each of them personally, but their service 
and sacrifice--and that of their families--is truly appreciated.
    I am proud to have championed the effort to boost pay for all TSA 
employees, including FAMs, to put them on the same footing as their 
peers at other Federal agencies. While increasing pay is a critical 
part of the effort to support the TSA workforce, more remains to be 
done to support FAMs.
    I hope this hearing will help Congress address long-standing 
challenges and the need for further reform at the agency. I am 
particularly focused on supporting the health and well-being of FAMs, 
who have long expressed health concerns as a result of their demanding 
duties and schedules.
    In 2012, a study by Harvard Medical School on reportedly found that 
75 percent of FAMs were sleep-deficient when flying domestic missions 
and 84 percent when flying international missions.
    In 2020, the Government Accountability Office (GAO) reported that 
FAMs in every office GAO visited stated that health issues were a key 
quality of life concern. Tragically, TSA has lost 16 FAMs to suicide 
since 2002.
    Last year, the Committee on Homeland Security approved my bill, 
H.R. 2577, the DHS Suicide Prevention and Resiliency for Law 
Enforcement Act, which would help address suicides and mental health 
among DHS law enforcement, including FAMs. I look forward to reaching 
an agreement with the Senate on the bill so it can go to the President 
to be signed into law.
    I hope our witnesses will share their thoughts today about what 
more TSA can do to support FAMs and what Congress can do to support 
those who are on the front lines securing the homeland.

    Mr. Gimenez. Again, I am pleased to have this distinguished 
panel of witnesses before us today on this critical topic. I 
ask that our witnesses please rise and raise their right hands.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Gimenez. Let the record reflect that the witnesses have 
answered in the affirmative. Thank you and please be seated.
    I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses. Mr. 
John Casaretti is the founder and president--and president of 
the air marshal--of the Air Marshal Association. Ms. Tina Won 
Sherman serves as director for the Homeland Security and 
Justice Team at the U.S. Government Accountability Office. I 
thank both of our distinguished witnesses for being here today. 
I now recognize Mr. Casaretti for 5 minutes to summarize his 
opening statement.

            STATEMENT OF JOHN A. CASARETTI, FOUNDER AND
                PRESIDENT, AIR MARSHAL ASSOCIATION

    Mr. Casaretti. Good morning, Chairman Gimenez, 
distinguished Members of this committee. My name is John 
Casaretti. I'm the president of the Air Marshal Association. 
The AMA represents thousands of current and former air 
marshals, and approximately half the flying air marshals are 
voluntary members.
    I was working as a custom inspector in New York City on 
September 11, 2001. I worked at the ground zero clean-up and 
Fresh Kills recovery effort for 7 months, then joined the 
Federal Air Marshal Service shortly thereafter. Those 
experiences created a sincere and personal desire to ensure 
that FAMS mission is successful.
    Currently, FAMS are part of the TSA. The TSA mission is a 
screen pass to the property at our Nation's airports. It's an 
important mission, but it's not a law enforcement mission. Air 
marshals believe their lack of law enforcement culture makes 
the TSA either unable or unwilling to develop the FAMS service 
to its fullest potential.
    As I testified to this committee in November 2021, the 
agency security strategy must evolve and the FAM mission must 
be redefined. We cannot be just another layer of TSA 
bureaucracy.
    The Air Marshal Associations met with TSA Administrator 
Pekoske on numerous occasions and we provided him with a 
detailed future paper that outlines some strategies to better 
utilize Federal air marshals. A key focus of the AMA future 
committee was the need for FAMS to be criminal investigators. 
Currently, there are no Federal agents available to investigate 
transportation incidents at airports and local authorities can 
only investigate to the limit of State law. Simply put, Federal 
interests are not being met at airports.
    Air marshals also do not fully understand their role within 
TSA initiatives. A current concern from our members is the TSA 
Quiet Skies Program. FAMS complain that they're not getting 
briefings, that they do not know why they are assigned to 
specific QS missions, that they have been given no specific 
task to complete.
    The TSA will claim that Quiet Skies is a useful and 
effective measure, but we disagree. To our knowledge, no Quiet 
Skies mission has resulted in the identification of a 
terrorist, of a terrorist plot being uncovered, or a terrorist 
action being stopped. Because of the question of programs like 
Quiet Skies, the Air Marshal Association worked with former 
Congressman Hice to enact the Strengthening Aviation Security 
Act in the 115th Congress. The law required TSA to tell 
Congress what specific intelligence is used to assign FAMS on 
missions. Many years later we're still waiting for this report.
    Another recent misstep has been the AVO program, which 
assigns FAMS to airports without specific mission or 
clarification of their authority. While we agree that assigning 
FAMS to airports is a step in the right direction, the FAMS 
must be in power to investigate any security incident or 
insider threat that they may encounter.
    There are simply too many operational criticisms to cover 
in this short statement. However, there are a multitude of 
other TSA missteps that need to be mentioned and may help 
explain why FAM morale is so low. For example, the AMA was 
forced to sue the agency in Federal court for Constitutional 
rights violations, management misconduct, and for lack of due 
process during agency investigations.
    The AMA is also suing for back pay and overtime for work 
performed since 2013. Even now FAMS can be assigned to shifts 
over 20 hours without receiving overtime due to misguided 
agency policies. FAMS are also required to remain on call 24/7 
without compensation. Sadly, the TSA believes it can behave 
this way because Congress authorized it. Public law 107-71 of 
2001, commonly referred to as the ATSA, essentially gives the 
TSA the authority to do whatever it wants. Prior administrators 
have even testified during open Congressional hearings that 
they do not have to answer Congressional questions and have 
also resisted subpoenas.
    This TSA defiance of Congress originates at the TSA Office 
of Chief Counsel and aided by DHS Office of General Counsel. 
TSA will do nothing without the permission of the chief 
counsel. This top-down control of TSA decisions by 
unaccountable attorneys who are detached from the mission has 
paralyzed the air marshals.
    All FAMS understand that law enforcement is a demanding 
job, but no FAMS signed up to be on call without compensation, 
to work punishing schedules, to endure management abuse, or to 
be subjected to investigations that violate our basic rights.
    The issues air marshals face have brought some agents and 
their families to the breaking point. We have lost many to 
suicide and other mental health issues. I have personally lost 
friends and I've watched families crumble.
    Air marshals tell the AMA that they want to be removed from 
the TSA and placed into a law enforcement agency. Since 2001, 
an entire generation of FAMS was made to work for 20 years 
under difficult conditions and then retire without fair 
compensation. The FAMS that remain do not want to share this 
fate. Responses to 2 recent surveys show that between 83 and 93 
percent of air marshals want to leave the TSA. Simply put, they 
don't trust the TSA after 23 years.
    I'd like to thank this committee for being--for holding 
this hearing and for the opportunity to testify before you 
today.
    I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Casaretti follows:]
    
                Prepared Statement of John A. Casaretti
                
                           September 24, 2024
                           
    Good morning, Chairman Gimenez and distinguished Members of this 
committee.
    My name is John Casaretti, and I am the president of the Air 
Marshal Association. The AMA represents thousands of current and former 
air marshals, and approximately half of flying air marshals are 
voluntary members.
    I was working as a Customs Inspector in New York City on September 
11, 2001. I worked at ground zero and the Fresh Kills landfill for 7 
months, and then joined the Federal Air Marshal Service shortly after 
recovery operations ended. Those experiences created a sincere and 
personal desire to ensure the FAM mission is successful.
    Currently, the FAMS are part of the Transportation Security 
Administration. The TSA mission is to screen passengers and property at 
our Nation's airports. It is an important mission, but it is not a law 
enforcement mission. Air marshals believe that a lack of law 
enforcement culture makes the TSA either unable or unwilling to develop 
the FAM Service to its fullest potential.
    As I testified to this committee in November 2021, the agency's 
security strategy must evolve, and the FAM mission must be redefined. 
We cannot be just another layer of TSA bureaucracy.
    The Air Marshal Association has met with TSA Administrator Pekoske 
on numerous occasions, and we provided him with a detailed Future Paper 
\1\ that outlined some strategies \2\ to better utilize Federal air 
marshals.\3\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ https://airmarshal.org/news-1/f/08042021-ama-future-committee-
final-recommendations.
    \2\ https://airmarshal.org/news-1/f/ama-evolution-committee-covid-
update.
    \3\ https://airmarshal.org/news-1/f/fam-1811-committee-paper.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A key focus of the AMA Future committee was the need for FAMs to be 
Criminal Investigators in the 1811 series.\4\ Currently, there are no 
Federal agents available to investigate transportation incidents at 
airports, and local authorities can only investigate to the limits of 
State law. Simply put, Federal interests are not being met at airports.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ https://airmarshal.org/news-1/f/ama-fams-evolution.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Air marshals also do not fully understand their role within certain 
TSA initiatives. A current concern from our members is the TSA Quiet 
Skies program. FAMs complain that they are not given briefings, they do 
not know why they are assigned to QS missions, and that they have been 
given no specific tasks to complete.
    The Quiet Skies program mimics the rule sets used by border 
agencies within the Federal Inspection Service areas. But the metrics 
and data points used to anchor arbitrary border inspections were never 
designed, or intended, to send highly-trained agents, like air 
marshals, on anti-terrorism missions.
    The TSA will claim that Quiet Skies is a useful and effective 
measure, but we disagree. To our knowledge, no Quiet Skies mission has 
resulted in the identification of a terrorist, a terrorist plot being 
uncovered, or a terrorist action being stopped.
    Because of questionable programs like Quiet Skies, the Air Marshal 
Association worked with former Congressman Hice to enact the 
Strengthening Aviation Security Act in the 115th Congress.\5\ The law 
required the TSA to tell Congress what specific intelligence is used to 
assign FAMs on missions. Many years later, we are still awaiting this 
report.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ https://airmarshal.org/news-1/f/ama-supports-hr-4467.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Another recent agency misstep has been the AVO program, which 
assigns FAMs to airports without a specific mission or clarification of 
their authority. While we agree that assigning FAMs to airports is a 
step in the right direction, the FAMs must be fully empowered to 
investigate any security incident or insider threat they might 
encounter.
    There are simply too many operational criticisms to cover in this 
short statement. However, there are a multitude of other TSA missteps 
which need to be mentioned, and may help explain why FAM morale is so 
low.
    For example, the AMA was forced to sue the agency in Federal court 
for Constitutional rights violations, management misconduct, and for 
lack of due process during agency investigations.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2022/06/20/2465651/
0/en/Federal-Air-Marshal-Union-Sues-TSA-for-Violating-Constitutional-
Rights.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The AMA is also suing the TSA for back pay and overtime for work 
performed since 2013.\7\ Even now, FAMs can be assigned to shifts of 
over 20 hours, without receiving overtime, due to misguided agency 
policy. FAMs are also required to remain on call 24/7 without 
compensation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ https://www.globenewswire.com/news-release/2020/05/29/2041197/
0/en/US-Court-certifies-class-of-air-marshals-for-unpaid-overtime.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Sadly, the TSA believes it can behave this way because Congress 
authorized it. Public Law 107-71 of 2001, commonly referred to as the 
ATSA, essentially gives the TSA the authority to do whatever it wants. 
Prior administrators have even testified during open Congressional 
hearings that they do not have to answer Congressional questions, and 
have also resisted subpoenas.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ https://oversight.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/TSA-
Report.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This TSA defiance of Congress originates at the TSA Office of Chief 
Counsel, aided by the DHS Office of General Counsel. TSA will do 
nothing without the permission of the chief counsel. This top-down 
control of TSA decisions, by unaccountable attorneys who are detached 
from the mission, has paralyzed the air marshals.
    All FAMs understand that law enforcement is a demanding job, but no 
FAM signed up to be on call without compensation, to work punishing 
schedules, to endure management abuse, or to be subjected to 
investigations that violate our basic rights.
    The issues air marshals face have brought some agents, and their 
families, to the breaking point. We have lost many FAMs to suicide and 
other mental health issues. I have personally lost friends, and have 
watched families crumble.
                                 ______
                                 
    Air marshals tell the AMA they want to be removed from the TSA and 
placed into a law enforcement agency. Since 2001, an entire generation 
of FAMs were made to work for 20 years under difficult conditions, then 
retire without fair compensation. The FAMs that remain do not want to 
share that fate.
    Responses on 2 recent AMA surveys show that between 83 percent \9\ 
and 93 percent \10\ of air marshals want to leave the TSA. Simply put, 
air marshals do not trust the TSA after 23 long years. We need to find 
a different path forward.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ https://www.surveymonkey.com/results/SM-
lMrbvlJk4IqtbUISQPuX_2FQ_3D_3D/.
    \10\ https://airmarshal.org/news-1/f/membership-responds-to-ama-
priorities-survey.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I would like to thank this committee for holding this hearing, and 
for the opportunity to testify before you today.
    I look forward to your questions.

    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Mr. Casaretti.
    I now recognize Ms. Sherman for 5 minutes to summarize her 
opening statements.

     STATEMENT OF TINA WON SHERMAN, PH D, DIRECTOR, HOME-
      LAND  SECURITY  AND  JUSTICE,  U.S. GOVERNMENT  AC-
      COUNTABILITY OFFICE

    Ms. Sherman. Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member Thanedar, 
Members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to 
testify this morning on behalf of GAO. Twenty-three years after 
9/11, threats to aviation security remain prevalent and have 
evolved beyond terrorists from the cockpit to now also included 
threats from explosives, insiders, cybersecurity, and more.
    Tasked with remaining confident in the Nation's civil 
aviation system, the Federal Air Marshal Service or FAMS 
assigns armed Federal law enforcement officers to provide an 
on-board security presence on selected domestic and 
international flights by U.S. carriers. To provide as much 
coverage as possible, FAMS uses a deployment strategy that 
involves identifying flights and determining how to divide its 
resources between in-flight and ground-based security.
    GAO 2016 examine a range of issues related to FAMS and has 
also highlighted 2 key areas where FAMS could strengthen its 
efforts. Those are organizational performance and work force 
management. Regarding organizational performance, GAO has made 
8 recommendations to FAMS and TSA since 2016 and 6 of them 
implemented. These recommendations include comprehensively 
reporting on performance information and assessing the 
effectiveness of its countermeasures.
    We also recommended that FAMS consider risk when setting 
annual targets for domestic and international flights to 
achieve its mission priorities. Without doing so, FAMS cannot 
ensure it's devoting its resources to the highest-risk flights. 
FAMS has since revised its deployment strategy and no longer 
uses annual targets, so it did not implement a recommendation. 
We continue to believe that risk should be a key consideration 
in any FAMS-supporting strategy.
    Regarding work force management, GAO has made 12 
recommendations to FAMS and TSA and all but one have been 
implemented. These recommendations span assessing the health 
and fitness of the FAMS work force to facilitate employee 
access to COVID testing during the pandemic.
    We also recommend that FAMS monitor air marshals work hours 
against scheduling guidelines. FAMS has developed a standard 
report showing air marshals' actual work and rest hours are 
consistent with its guidelines but does not provide the report 
to leadership or produce it on a regular basis. Doing so would 
fully address our recommendation.
    In 2023 FAMS issued a new road map to guidance efforts. The 
road map outlines 5 priorities and efforts to identify and 
align funding, prioritize risk and allocate resources, and 
improve operational and mission support. It also states that 
implementation would not be fully realized until the end of 
this year.
    To support the subcommittee's oversight role, future 
Congressional studies could examine FAMS progress in 
implementing the road map and whether it contains specific 
strategies to help achieve its objectives. GAO's guide to 
managing and assessing performance of Federal organizations 
could be used to help Congress determine if FAMS is achieving 
its objectives.
    Congressional oversight could also cover the degree to 
which FAMS supports the overall heath and wellness of its air 
marshals. GAO strategic human capital management body of work 
includes leading practices to address those and other workforce 
challenges.
    In closing, protecting the civil aviation system and its 
evolving threats is critical to our Nation's transportation 
security, and GAO is prepared to continue to assist the 
subcommittee in its oversight of FAMS and TSA. I'd like to 
thank my GAO colleagues for your support in advance of this 
hearing and to the subcommittee for their focus on this 
important topic.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Sherman follows:]
    
                 Prepared Statement of Tina Won Sherman
                 
                      Tuesday, September 24, 2024
                      
                             gao highlights
                             
    Highlights of GAO-24-107824, a testimony before the Subcommittee on 
Transportation and Maritime Security, Committee on Homeland Security, 
House of Representatives.

Why GAO Did This Study
    Twenty-three years after 9/11, the threat of terrorist attacks to 
civil aviation and the need for effective security measures remains of 
significant concern. FAMS deploys air marshals on selected flights to 
deter and address such threats. In June 2023, FAMS issued a road map 
that describes the mission, vision, and priorities of the agency.
    This statement discusses GAO's portfolio of work on FAMS and its 
progress addressing prior GAO recommendations.
    This statement is based on prior GAO reports published from May 
2016 through June 2021, along with updates on FAMS's efforts to address 
previous GAO recommendations. For these reports, GAO reviewed TSA and 
FAMS documentation, analyzed data, and interviewed agency officials. 
For recommendation updates, GAO reviewed FAMS and TSA documentation and 
met with officials.

What GAO Recommends
    GAO made 20 recommendations related to FAMS in the reports covered 
by this statement. DHS agreed with all of them. As of August 2024, 17 
have been implemented; 1 has been partially implemented; 2 have been 
closed--no longer valid. GAO will continue to monitor the agency's 
progress.

federal air marshal service.--recommendations to address organizational 
        performance and workforce challenges largely implemented

What GAO Found
    The Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS) is a component within the 
Department of Homeland Security's (DHS) Transportation Security 
Administration (TSA). In prior work, GAO identified various challenges 
affecting FAMS. These generally fall into two areas: (1) organizational 
performance and (2) workforce management. As of August 2024, FAMS and 
TSA have largely implemented GAO's 20 recommendations.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    One example of a closed recommendation to address organizational 
performance relates to the effectiveness of TSA's aviation security 
countermeasures. In 2017, GAO reported on the costs and effectiveness 
of TSA's passenger aviation security countermeasures, including FAMS. 
GAO found that TSA did not have methods to assess its effectiveness in 
deterring attacks on the U.S. aviation system. As a result, GAO 
recommended that TSA explore and pursue methods to do so. TSA addressed 
this by commissioning several studies and using them to inform 
leadership decisions about new or revised countermeasures. As a result, 
TSA should now be better-positioned to understand and improve its 
efforts to deter attacks on the U.S. aviation system.
    The open, partially-addressed, recommendation to address workforce 
management challenges focuses on FAMS's tracking of the time its air 
marshals spent on and off their shifts. In 2020, GAO found that FAMS 
did not monitor air marshals' work hours against its guidelines for 
shift lengths and rest periods. GAO recommended that FAMS monitor the 
extent to which air marshals' actual shifts and rest hours are 
consistent with scheduling guidelines. As of August 2024, FAMS 
developed reports with this information, but it had not used them to 
help manage its workforce.
    Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member Thanedar, and Members of the 
subcommittee: I am pleased to be here today to discuss our work on the 
Federal Air Marshal Service (FAMS)--a component within the Department 
of Homeland Security's (DHS) Transportation Security Administration 
(TSA). FAMS's stated mission is to detect, deter, and defeat criminal, 
terrorist, and hostile activities that target our Nation's 
transportation systems.
    In the 23 years since the attacks of September 11, 2001, TSA has 
spent billions on a wide range of programs designed to enhance aviation 
security.\1\ For example, FAMS deploys armed Federal law enforcement 
officers--air marshals--to provide an on-board security presence on 
selected flights of U.S. air carriers traveling domestically and around 
the world. To cover as many flights as possible, FAMS has a deployment 
strategy that involves identifying flights and determining how to 
divide resources between in-flight and ground-based security.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ In fiscal year 2023, FAMS's total appropriation was $735 
million and for fiscal year 2025, FAMS has requested $843 million.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To effectively carry out its work, FAMS must continually ensure 
alignment between its core mission and the resources necessary to 
achieve it. In June 2023, FAMS issued a road map that, in part, 
describes the mission, vision, and priorities of the agency.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Transportation Security Administration, Law Enforcement/Federal 
Air Marshal Service Roadmap (June 2023).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My statement today discusses GAO's portfolio of work on FAMS and 
its progress addressing our recommendations. This statement is based on 
prior GAO reports published from May 2016 through June 2021, along with 
selected updates on FAMS's efforts to address previous GAO 
recommendations.\3\ For these reports, GAO reviewed FAMS documentation, 
analyzed data, and interviewed agency officials. For recommendation 
updates, we reviewed FAMS and TSA documentation and met with FAMS and 
TSA officials.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ GAO, COVID-19: Federal Air Marshal Service Should Document Its 
Response to Cases and Facilitate Access to Testing, GAO-21-595 
(Washington, DC: June 23, 2021); Aviation Security: Federal Air Marshal 
Service Has Taken Steps to Address Workforce Issues, but Additional 
Actions Needed, GAO-20-125 (Washington, DC: Feb. 12, 2020); Aviation 
Security: Actions Needed to Systematically Evaluate Cost and 
Effectiveness Across Security Countermeasures, GAO-17-794 (Washington, 
DC: Sept. 11, 2017); Federal Air Marshal Service: Actions Needed to 
Better Incorporate Risk in Deployment Strategy, GAO-16-582 (Washington, 
DC: May 31, 2016); and Federal Air Marshal Service: Additional Actions 
Needed to Ensure Air Marshals' Mission Readiness, GAO-16-764 
(Washington, DC, Sept. 14, 2016).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    More detailed information on the objectives, scope, and 
methodologies of our prior work can be found in each of the reports 
listed at the end of this statement. We conducted the work on which 
this statement is based in accordance with generally accepted 
Government auditing standards. Those standards require that we plan and 
perform the audit to obtain sufficient, appropriate evidence to provide 
a reasonable basis for our findings and conclusions based on our audit 
objectives. We believe that the evidence obtained provides a reasonable 
basis for our findings and conclusions based on our audit objectives.

      fams and tsa have largely implemented gao's recommendations
      
    Since 2016, we have made 20 recommendations to address various 
challenges affecting FAMS. These generally fall into two areas: (1) 
organizational performance and (2) workforce management.\4\ As of 
August 2024, FAMS and TSA have largely implemented our recommendations. 
As figure 1 illustrates, 17 have been implemented, 1 has been partially 
implemented, and 2 have been closed as no longer valid.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Managing organizational performance can include efforts to 
measure and assess performance. Managing the workforce can include 
efforts to acquire, develop, and retain staff.
    \5\ GAO may close a recommendation as no longer valid when a 
program or approach has been significantly changed since GAO's 
recommendation. GAO continues to monitor FAMS's progress in 
implementation.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

Actions to Better Manage FAMS Organizational Performance
    With respect to the 8 recommendations we made concerning 
organizational performance challenges, FAMS and TSA have implemented 6 
but did not implement the remaining 2. Examples of actions taken in 
response to our recommendations include:
   FAMS took action to report comprehensively on performance 
        categories.--In May 2016, we reported on the performance 
        information FAMS shared with TSA and DHS. We found that the 
        performance measure FAMS used to assess the extent to which it 
        met its flight coverage and resource use targets was not clear 
        or objective.\6\ This measure--the TSA coverage score--was a 
        composite score for 11 performance categories, including air 
        marshal coverage of certain domestic and international 
        flights.\7\ The measure lacked clarity because, for example, it 
        aggregated flight coverage and resource allocation information, 
        which made it difficult to interpret. It also lacked 
        objectivity because, as a composite measure, it did not show 
        performance below or above desired levels in the 11 
        categories--information that would aid decision making. As a 
        result, we recommended that FAMS report the performance results 
        for each of the 11 categories that comprise the TSA coverage 
        score to FAMS and TSA leadership.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ GAO-16-582.
    \7\ Further detail about these categories has been designated 
sensitive security information and thus cannot be included in a public 
testimony.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In 2017, FAMS began reporting the more complete information to both 
        FAMS and TSA leadership on a regular basis.\8\ As a result, 
        DHS, TSA, and FAMS leadership had more complete information 
        about FAMS performance, including where FAMS performance was 
        below targets. We therefore closed this recommendation as 
        implemented.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ FAMS now refers to this as the ``Composite Index of Federal Air 
Marshal Service Risk-Based Flight Coverage Goals.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
   TSA took action to assess the deterrent effect of 
        countermeasures.--In September 2017, we reported on the costs 
        and effectiveness of TSA's passenger aviation security 
        countermeasures, including FAMS.\9\ We found that TSA did not 
        have methods to assess its effectiveness in deterring attacks 
        on the U.S. aviation system. As a result, we recommended that 
        TSA explore and pursue methods to assess the deterrent effect 
        of TSA's passenger aviation security countermeasures.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ GAO-17-794.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    TSA addressed this recommendation by commissioning several studies. 
        For example, TSA studied threat shifting--the response of an 
        adversary to its perception of countermeasures or procedures--
        as a means to understand and influence deterrence. TSA 
        officials explained that they used the studies' results to 
        inform leadership decisions about new or revised 
        countermeasures. By pursuing these methods, TSA could better 
        understand and improve its efforts to deter attacks on the U.S. 
        aviation system. We closed this recommendation as implemented.
   FAMS has not set annual targets for its coverage of domestic 
        and international flights.--In our May 2016 report, mentioned 
        above, we found FAMS could better incorporate risk in its 
        deployment strategy.\10\ For example, we found that FAMS did 
        not consider risk when deciding how to initially divide annual 
        resources between domestic and international flights to achieve 
        its mission priorities. With this approach, FAMS attempted to 
        maximize the total number of flights it could cover, but 
        because this model did not account for risk, FAMS could not 
        ensure it is devoting its resources to the highest-risk flights 
        overall. As a result, we recommended that FAMS incorporate risk 
        into its method for initially setting annual target numbers of 
        average daily international and domestic flights to cover.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ GAO-16-582.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In March 2018, FAMS revised its deployment methodology to no longer 
        set these annual targets. We closed this recommendation as no 
        longer valid. In November 2020, agency officials said that FAMS 
        was evaluating its concept of operations and planned to make 
        further adjustments to their deployment strategy.

Actions to Better Manage the FAMS Workforce
    With respect to the 12 recommendations we made concerning workforce 
management challenges, FAMS and TSA have implemented 11 and FAMS is 
making progress in implementing the remaining recommendation. Examples 
of actions taken in response to our recommendations include:
   FAMS took action to assess the health and fitness of its 
        workforce.--In February 2020, we assessed FAMS's workforce 
        issues, including air marshals' quality of life.\11\ We found 
        that although FAMS had assessed individuals' health, such as by 
        requiring medical exams, the agency had not comprehensively 
        assessed the health of its workforce as a whole--a step that 
        would enable it to look for broader health trends and risks. As 
        a result, we recommended that FAMS develop and implement a plan 
        to assess the health and fitness of the FAMS workforce.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ GAO-20-125.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In October 2022, FAMS began tracking injuries among the workforce, 
        including the number, type, and geographic location of 
        individuals with injuries. With this information, FAMS 
        management can better ensure its workforce can fulfill its 
        national security mission. We closed this recommendation as 
        implemented.
   FAMS took action to facilitate employee access to COVID-19 
        testing.--In June 2021, we reported on FAMS's response to 
        COVID-19.\12\ We found that air marshals faced barriers getting 
        tested for COVID-19 and FAMS had not been routinely 
        facilitating employee access to such testing. As a result, we 
        recommended that FAMS routinely facilitate employee access to 
        COVID-19 testing.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ GAO-21-595.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In March 2022, FAMS began making COVID-19 tests available to 
        employees. By routinely facilitating employee access to 
        testing, FAMS helped employees better ensure their health, the 
        health of others, and FAMS's continued security operations. We 
        closed this recommendation as implemented.
   FAMS has taken some action toward monitoring air marshals' 
        work hours against scheduling guidelines.--In our February 2020 
        report we found that FAMS did not monitor air marshals' actual 
        shifts and rest periods against FAMS's scheduling 
        guidelines.\13\ As a result, we recommended that FAMS do so.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ GAO-20-125. At the time of our review, FAMS's guidelines 
identified a 10-hour maximum for domestic work shifts. In certain 
circumstances, however, air marshals could be scheduled to work longer 
than 10 hours. In addition, FAMS's guidelines identified a 16-hour 
minimum rest following domestic flights exceeding 8 hours of flight 
time and a 12-hour minimum rest following domestic flights lasting 8 
hours of flight time or less.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As of August 2024, FAMS has developed a standard report describing 
        the extent to which air marshals' actual work and rest hours 
        were consistent with the guidelines. However, FAMS has not 
        produced the report regularly and provided it to leadership. 
        According to agency officials, FAMS plans to implement the 
        report before the end of 2024. To fully address this 
        recommendation, FAMS will need to use this report to understand 
        the extent to which air marshals' actual work hours are 
        consistent with the guidelines. We consider this recommendation 
        open-partially implemented and will continue to monitor FAMS's 
        progress.
    In conclusion, protection of our Nation's civil aviation system 
amidst evolving threats is critical to overall transportation security. 
Our prior recommendations prompted FAMS's and TSA's actions to address 
organizational performance and workforce management challenges. We 
stand ready to support future Congressional oversight.

                gao contacts and staff acknowledgements
                
    Chairman Gimenez, Ranking Member Thanedar, and Members of the 
subcommittee, this completes my prepared statement. I would be pleased 
to respond to any questions that you may have at this time.

    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Ms. Sherman.
    Members will now be recognized by order of seniority for 
their 5 minutes of questioning. I now recognize myself for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Casaretti, your testimony was somewhat troubling to me. 
How many FAMS are there? How many Federal air marshal personnel 
are there?
    Mr. Casaretti. Chairman, I'm not sure if I'm supposed to be 
releasing that in open testimony, and specifically I can only 
guess. I don't work with the agency directly, so I would----
    Mr. Gimenez. We'll find that out. Not a problem. OK. 
Thanks. I'm interested in--where is it that you would want the 
FAMS to be? I mean, you don't want it to be under TSA, but 
where would you recommend that it should be? Should you be your 
own agency separate or should you be under some other law 
enforcement branch of Federal Government?
    Mr. Casaretti. I think the FAMS want to be under law 
enforcement. We've had this conversation with--amongst 
ourselves and with different staff. The best fit would be in a 
law enforcement, not a regulatory agency. Standalone probably 
would be more problematic than its worth, and the air marshals 
just want to make sure that there is an intelligence basis for 
them going on these flights, that they have a meaningful 
contribution to the security in so much that they can do 
investigative work and try and find the problems before they 
get on the aircraft as well.
    We've toyed around with DOT looking into the authority of 
that. There's been a lot of speculation and questions about 
whether or not we could become HSI agents and whether or not 
the duties in the air are going to be a collateral duty. Those 
are promising, but I think there's going to be an issue with 
the shifting authority from 49C over to 19 USC authority, so 
we're still talking about that. We have no answer. We're hoping 
this committee can figure it out for us.
    Mr. Gimenez. Yes, but we're going to be looking to you, the 
people, to tell us hey, where do you think you best lie? I 
guess we're going to look at it ourselves. When you have--when 
you are assigned to a flight, are you assigned to a mission, or 
are you just--are these things random, or how does that--how 
does that work?
    Mr. Casaretti. So the missions--a lot of the missions are 
random, but there are QS and those types of flights, or SMCs 
that they say----
    Mr. Gimenez. Could you speak English for me, please. I'm 
not--I don't speak TSA-ese.
    Mr. Casaretti. I understand. Special mission coverages they 
say are intelligence-based missions. Quiet Skies they say are 
intelligence-based missions. Unfortunately, we don't feel that 
the rule sets that they're using to create these missions are 
necessarily intelligence.
    One of the reasons why we worked with Congressman Hice in 
the past was because we were trying to flush out exactly what 
they were doing with intelligence and why they thought these 
missions were of higher risk that require a Federal agent to be 
placed on it for antiterrorism measures. It just didn't make 
sense to us.
    What we found out was they borrowed or they thought that 
they would borrow a rules set system from Customs, which is 
called automated targeting system, which puts these rules in 
place, and they grab people that happen to stumble into it like 
a net. I worked for Customs and I used to deal with this 
before. That system was designed to be used in the border area. 
It was designed to have inspectors actually asking questions of 
these people that might stumble across a rule set. So in that 
scenario, it works very well, because you have eye-to-eye human 
law enforcement contact with the individual that may have 
stumbled across the rule set.
    Air marshals can't do anything like that. They're assigning 
an air marshal on the flight based upon these single data 
points. I don't consider that intelligence and a lot of the air 
marshals don't either.
    Mr. Gimenez. The Quiet Skies Program, how does one get on 
that list?
    Mr. Casaretti. You have to trigger one of the rules. 
There's rules that they make and they're triggered, and if you 
happen to trigger it, you're on the program.
    Mr. Gimenez. OK. So I guess we're going to have to have a 
Classified briefing with TSA to find out how one gets on that 
list and how in the world does a former Congresswoman get on 
that list. So when somebody is in the Quiet Skies Program, 
anytime they fly, they're going to be seen. Somebody is going 
to be with them. Is that what you're telling me?
    Mr. Casaretti. They're going to--there is a high risk 
they're going to have an air marshal on the flight. I don't 
know if they're going to have a job on the flight, but they'll 
become the flight.
    Mr. Gimenez. Fair enough. I think that's better in a 
Classified setting as to how one gets there and why certain 
people are on it. I'm certainly very interested in why 
certainly people are on it, but I'm not going to have it here 
in this hearing. So my time is up and I now recognize the 
Ranking Member from Michigan.
    Mr. Thanedar. Thank you, Chairman.
    Thank you, witnesses, for your testimony today. Mr. John 
Casaretti from the Air Marshals Association, thank you so much 
for being here. I also want to thank the men and women of--for 
the air marshals and the work that you've done to keep us all 
safe. I really appreciate it, especially those of us who fly 
fairly frequently. We appreciate the good work that your 
members do.
    In your testimony, you described some of the challenges 
facing air marshals, including their punishing schedule. Would 
you please walk us through what kind of schedule would be 
typical for an air marshal during the week, you know, how--when 
they're asked to perform or be on a flight what information do 
they have, what training do they have, what is expected of 
them, and how taxing could that be.
    Mr. Casaretti. Yes, Ranking Member. There is--a regular day 
would be unknown at this point, because schedule changes happen 
all the time. They'll pretty much be on stand-by, which affects 
their personal lives. They may be called to get on a flight 
early. They may be told at the end of their shift to be on a 
flight that lasts for 8 or 9 hours, so a lot of the problems 
that the FAMS face is that they have families, they have child 
care. There's dogs to walk. There's things to do that can't be 
dropped at the drop of a hat.
    As far as the long work days are concerned, our 
international missions can run on our longest-haul flights, you 
know, 16 to 20 hours, and that doesn't include the pre-mission 
briefings. It doesn't include the breakdown or the meeting with 
foreign authorities to lock up weapons, getting to the hotel. 
By the time you actually have your time to yourself, you may 
have worked a triple shift and you're pretty much wiped out, 
but then you've got to go to sleep, find food in some cases off 
times at the destination city and get your sleep in, maybe a 
get workout if you can, and get right back on the aircraft and 
do it again. So you're working on a constant sleep deprivation 
and your circadian rhythm is knocked out of whack.
    A problem that we found over the years is the other demands 
that you have to meet when you get back specifically going to 
the office, doing specific training, even things like firearms 
or physical fitness becomes really hard because you're on this 
huge sleep deprivation. You're away from your children and your 
families. You're groggy. You cannot keep up with what's going 
on at home because you're so disjointed. That's one of the 
things that I was mentioning before about families being torn 
apart and crumbling. You can't get it all together when you're 
on this constant 27-day deployment that's lasted in some cases 
for 20 years.
    Mr. Thanedar. Thank you.
    Dr. Sherman, I have a--in 2020 GAO heard from many air 
marshals that they were experiencing extreme fatigue, mental 
health issues, difficulty maintaining a healthy diet, and 
increased frequency of illness. GAO also cited survey data 
showing that only 44 percent of air marshals felt protected 
from health and safety hazards. What actions did GAO recommend 
TSA should take to address these health concerns?
    Ms. Sherman. Thank you. In particular I'd like to highlight 
from that work. One has to do with scheduling deadlines and 
ensuring that there is adherence by FAMS to the TSA scheduling 
guidance for those air marshals. That wasn't something that was 
being documented and that is some action that the FAMS has 
since taken.
    Also, the other quality of life considerations that have 
come up in terms of physical fitness assessments, and while 
those assessments were being carried out on a regular basis, 
they weren't also being documented. There wasn't a lot of 
information that was easily accessible and there wasn't 
information in some type of a system that would allow FAMS to 
look across the work force and really better understand the 
physical fitness and, of course, the mental health issues as 
well of the work force. So we made those recommendations.
    I just wanted to also add that for this committee we are 
planning to start up work in the near term to look at DHS law 
enforcement officers' mental health and wellness and we look 
forward to supporting the committee's oversight in that area.
    Mr. Thanedar. Thank you, Dr. Sherman. My time is up, so I 
yield back.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, Ranking Member. I now recognize the 
gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Lee.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Sherman, I'd like to pick up right where you left off 
and talk a little bit further about the Federal Air Marshals' 
road map and some of the initiatives that are outlined there. 
Can you tell me, are there any particular initiatives in that 
road map that have not yet been implemented that you think are 
important for the road map?
    Ms. Sherman. Yes. Thank you. So we actually have in GAO 
taken a look at the implementation of that road map since this 
issuance from last year. In fact, stated in the document itself 
at the very end, it highlights the fact that it was going to 
take about 18 months at the end of this year for largely kind-
of a substantive invitation to occur and even another 6 months 
before there are sufficient performing measures to understand 
the efforts.
    As part of that road map, there's absolutely, though, areas 
that we think that will help to potentially address some of 
these issues but also to keep FAMS at bay, or I should say--
sorry, at pace with current threats. For example, building or 
increasing field-based capabilities to be able to address some 
of the additional threats around insiders in cybersecurity that 
are continuing to emerge.
    Ms. Lee. Tell us a little bit more about that, if you 
would. Any specific recommendations or insight about how they 
might build those field-ready capabilities?
    Ms. Sherman. Yes. No insight at this stage. It's something 
that we absolutely believe is important for us to take a closer 
look at in terms of the implementation of the road map, whether 
or not the strategies that are being carried out align with the 
objectives and the priorities that are set forth, and we also 
think that it would be a good time for us to revisit the FAMS 
deployment strategy and get a better understanding of progress 
made there as well.
    Ms. Lee. Mr. Casaretti, turning to you, how do the 
operational air marshals on the ground feel about that road 
map? Is it your assessment that they are supportive of it, that 
they are believers in it, or are there concerns about it?
    Mr. Casaretti. Congresswoman, I don't think the air 
marshals even understand the road map. We had submitted a 
detailed future committee with a bunch of recommendations and 
I've spoken to the current and former directors about 
implementing it and making us more able to meet insider threats 
on the ground and have meaningful work at the airport, but 
nothing really has been done.
    Even the AVO program I mentioned earlier in my statement, 
FAMS are just placed in airports without training, without 
guidance, and they are pretty much told to walk around. We 
don't think that's an effective use of us. In a lot of ways, 
it's an insult of what we know in our experience.
    Ms. Lee. On that point, if you would help us with just a 
little bit of background. Those who are currently serving in 
the Federal air marshal program, are they sworn law enforcement 
officers?
    Mr. Casaretti. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Lee. So you all have the ability and the background and 
the training to be doing that sort of investigation insider 
threat assessment and things that you refer to.
    Mr. Casaretti. Yes and no. The reason I'll say no is 
because we've suffered an incredible brain drain over the last 
few years. The air marshals that came on post-9/11 like myself, 
they've mostly retired, and we have now air marshals that came 
on and have no other law enforcement experience except what TSA 
has taught them. We're not in love with what TSA has taught us. 
A lot of us has crutched off of our prior training and 
experience to do actions at airports. I myself was on a ground 
team twice around for about 2 years and 2 months and I was able 
to develop a lot of case work, but that was all based upon my 
prior training and experience, none of was what taught to me in 
the FAMS service.
    So I think there's a real challenge right now that 
trainings got bumped up, which is why we keep going back to 
training. We have a fresh group of people and they need to be 
taught how to do this kind of work.
    Ms. Lee. I'd like to hear a little bit more about what you 
just described. So during your work on the ground team, you 
were able to develop and make cases. So for us, at some point 
an FBI agent or HSI agent could bring a Federal case, build an 
investigation, but you clearly are seeing a role for the 
Federal Air Marshals to do more and to do more of that front-
line work investigating and bringing cases. Could you describe 
for us the types of things, the types of situations and cases 
that you have investigated and what you think the air marshals 
can be adding if they were given appropriate training?
    Mr. Casaretti. Of course. A lot of the cases I've developed 
were based upon plain view and me being at the airport, basic 
law enforcement tactics. You put yourself in the place where 
you can see bad things happening. What we were doing at the 
time was we had a training of the TSA BDO component, behavioral 
detection officers. They were under the Federal Air Marshals 
for a short time. So I trained them on bag searches, I trained 
them on properly dumping out a bag to feel the weight of it in 
case there was precursor chemicals in it.
    When they did that kind of search, I was able to see a lot 
of things, because they were doing a proper search. Things that 
were uncovered were multiple credit cards unsigned going 
foreign. So that's a CMIR, Currency Monetary Instrument 
Reporting Act violation, and I was able to notify customs 
about. You'll see if you're down by the areas where baggage is 
being screened, you may see a lot of organics coming through an 
E-scan machine. I was able to seize $110,000, get a DEA agent 
on-site and do 13 arrests and close 2 cases the following day 
in Newark.
    There are ways to build the air marshals into current TSA 
operations to utilize us as law enforcement and as 
investigators, but TSA is so risk-adverse they do not want us 
to do these things. I think one of the things that we have been 
trying to get them to do is to look at intelligence, to deploy 
us based upon intelligence, and to look at what we're able to 
do at the airports so we can identify these insider threat 
incidents and we can get some case work developed. If we 
develop case work at the airport, it will naturally lead to 
intelligence, and that will naturally keep the whole domain 
safer.
    Ms. Lee. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from 
New York, Mr. LaLota.
    Mr. LaLota. Not yet Florida, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Gimenez. You'll get there eventually.
    Mr. LaLota. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say thanks 
for your leadership and bringing us all together on the Federal 
Air Marshal Service. To our witnesses for your expertise, your 
informing this panel is important to how we craft our policies 
and set our budgets, and I want to say thanks for being here 
and for your professionalism.
    This month marks the 23rd anniversary of the tragic events 
of September 11 which serve as a catalyst for the creation and 
expansion of the Federal Air Marshal Service as we know it 
today, and as we as a committee and we as the public who 
reflect on that fateful day, it's important to recognize that 
the aviation security landscape has evolved significantly since 
23 years ago.
    Originally tasked with ensuring the safety and security of 
passengers, crew, and aircraft, the Federal Air Marshal Service 
has played a vital role in deterring and responding to in-
flight threats. However, the effectiveness of FAMS is now 
subject to on-going discussion given the limited deployment of 
air marshals only covering an estimated 5 to 6 percent of daily 
commercial air flights and the high operational costs involved 
amounting to $735 million in 2023.
    Dr. Sherman, good morning. Thanks so much for being with us 
here today. Can you tell us what has the GAO's work revealed 
about the Federal Air Marshal Service's contribution to 
aviation security, Doctor?
    Ms. Sherman. Thank you for asking that question. What we've 
identified is that it's been challenging and difficult for TSA 
to understand FAMS and air marshals' ability to be able to be 
effective as an aviation security countermeasure. We looked 
back just a few years ago across all of the aviation security 
layers or countermeasures that TSA has, and FAMS stood out as 
one of the few where understanding effectiveness was very 
limited.
    We can understand and appreciate the challenge of doing so, 
because essentially one of the primary contributions that FAMS 
has is to be a deterrent--to deter attacks, and that's 
difficult to quantify, that's difficult to measure, but there 
are ways for the air marshals and for the relevant programs to 
be able to get closer to an understanding of that deterring 
factor so that we have a better sense of the cost effectiveness 
and we also have an opportunity, or at least FAMS and TSA 
would, to essentially optimize or right-size the use of its 
resources.
    Mr. LaLota. Given that complex and ever-changing threat 
environment that you described where the adversaries have 
shifted from traditional hijacking tactics to cyber threats, 
insider attacks, and even drone-related disruptions, we must 
now understand how FAMS has adapted its mission and whether its 
contributions remain impactful. A follow-up question to that is 
how has FAMS adjusted its operations and deployment strategy to 
adapt to these new threats?
    Ms. Sherman. Yes. We've talked a little bit about ground-
based operations already, considering Viper teams, support of 
transportation security officers at the airport, providing 
security and law enforcement assistance not only at the 
airport, but also in transportation hubs and service in the 
kind of maritime space to providing other types of assistance 
or support as intelligence is identified.
    That moved toward ground-based deployment as not only 
something that is a function of the changing integral threats, 
but it's actually something that FAMS has been interested and 
has had a desire to move toward since I think 2010 or 2011 in 
part to help address some of the physical and mental wellness 
challenges that we were talking about earlier.
    Mr. LaLota. I want to get into that a little bit more, but 
with the remaining time I have left, just about a minute, we, 
Congress, this panel especially knows the nature of the job 
includes frequent travel and long hours, and we know that can 
take a toll on the morale and mental health of our Federal Air 
Marshals, and we have a specific appreciation for that. 
Understanding how air marshals view their roles, leadership in 
FAMS and TSA, the factors contributing to job satisfaction or 
dissatisfaction is crucial in how we can assess, how we can 
improve engagements, morale, and retention among air marshals.
    With about the 30 seconds I have remaining, Mr. Casaretti, 
I want to thank you again for being here with us today. Tell 
the panel here how the air marshals generally feel about their 
role. How is morale? How is everybody doing?
    Mr. Casaretti. Congressman, morale is low. It got a bump, 
because we finally have equal pay to the rest of our peers in 
law enforcement, but none of the other issues have been solved, 
and that's one of the big problems. Over and over again I 
talked to FAMS from across the country on a weekly basis, and 
it always comes back to the simple fact that the FAM does not 
know why they're on the specific flight they're on. That's 
usually what we always get back to. What is the specific 
intelligence to the flight that I'm on? No one can tell us.
    Even with the program I related earlier with Quiet Skies, 
they say there's specific intelligence and you will get a PDF 
with the picture of the individual, but you have no job and is 
there is no specific reason for you to be on that flight that's 
identified, so we're being told to sit on an airplane, but we 
have no job.
    It turns out that me myself in my entire career, my agency 
never really told me I had a job except if you see them get on 
a plane, take care of it. If you see a violent incident, take 
care of it. Other than that, I feel like my entire career was 
squandered, except for my own proactive efforts at the airport.
    Mr. LaLota. I can tell you, and I'll yield back in a 
moment, Mr. Chairman, but under the Chairman's leadership, this 
panel cares about the morale of the leadership and the morale 
leads to more effectiveness which leads to safer skies. It's an 
important mission that we should all strive to, and I 
appreciate your testimony today.
    Chairman, I yield.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. I now recognize the gentleman from 
Louisiana, Mr. Higgins.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Casaretti, Dr. Sherman, thank you for being here today. 
There's been on-going discussion in my office for quite some 
time, and of course I support the enforcement of the law and 
protection of our travelers. We all travel a lot.
    You know, it has always been to me as an American 
comforting to know even as a cop, you know, when I was a full-
time cop and sometimes I would travel on a pretty regular basis 
to participate in the training somewhere or to interact in some 
manner with other law enforcement, so even being a cop on an 
airplane, it was always reassuring to think maybe there is an 
air marshal on a plane. Try and identify the guy, you know, 
maybe it's that guy, maybe it's that guy. It's just the way 
it's supposed to work.
    So being a supporter and a cop myself, it was that much 
more troubling as a constitutionalist when it began to be 
brought to my attention that maybe the air marshal service has 
been co-opted by some darker force within the Federal 
Government that would oppress the freedoms and rights, 
including the very, very basic freedom to travel the land that 
Americans enjoy.
    So I paid very close attention to the initial 
whistleblowers that came forward and spoke to me in my office 
and we performed our due diligence. We discovered a letter that 
I had not known of prior that was offered by--at that time the 
Democrat Chairman of this committee and the Ranking Member of 
this committee just after January 6 essentially instructing TSA 
to find ways to interact with and obstruct the travel of 
conservatives that had come to the Capitol region in the time 
frame before January 6th and after January 6th.
    Well, that bothered the hell out of me that such a thing 
could happen. So we started looking into it, and some 
disturbing things have come to light, and some things that we 
thought perhaps were disturbing, they were settled. Where we 
are right now as a body, as a committee, and we're responsible 
to perform for the American people and to support our oath to 
the family. Support the Constitution of these United States, 
far more important than anything Republican or Democrat. But 
Americans need to hear from you that the air marshal services 
are not being used to follow around conservative Americans that 
have been tagged as some high-risk individual. Do you support--
if an American supports a particular candidate for President, 
does that put an American potentially in a high-risk category 
that they would be followed by the air marshals, Mr. Casaretti?
    Mr. Casaretti. Congressman, I don't believe that specific 
thing would put you in the category, but I believe there is the 
discretion and the leeway for TSA to develop a rule set that 
has a high likelihood of catching any type of person it wants 
to. So everything is rules-based, because there is no tough 
oversight of the rules they're using. They can make any rule 
they want to, and yes, it could----
    Mr. Higgins. Exactly. The freedom to travel the land, I 
mean, it's a foundational principle. You're not actually living 
in a free land if you're not free to travel the land. If we're 
being watched and tracked and followed and spied upon by agents 
that we, the people, you know, provide to protect the citizenry 
allegedly from some legitimate threat to air travel, it's 
disturbing and troubling.
    I have several questions that I'm going to never get to but 
were prepared in writing for you, Mr. Casaretti, and you, Dr. 
Sherman. Just 3 or 4 questions each. We're going to provide 
those in writing. I hope to have a timely answer on those 
questions.
    Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the subcommittee convening on 
this important topic, and I yield.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you, gentleman from Louisiana. We're 
going to go through a second round, so I'll start off. Mr. 
Casaretti, when something happens in TSA at the line, something 
which is illegal, somebody brings a weapon, et cetera, and 
they're apprehended, who apprehends them?
    Mr. Casaretti. Chairman, local law enforcement are called 
to respond. It's very unlikely that there will be a Federal 
charge on it, so they have the TSA reimbursement program. They 
pay for local law enforcement to be available to TSA and TSA 
will call them.
    One of my big complaints about this system is that Federal 
Air Marshals are not automatically on the local notification 
system, so if there ever were an opportunity to examine Federal 
interests in these incidents, we don't even have the 
opportunity to, because city, State, and local comes and does 
whatever they're going to do, seize or invest our evidence or 
just arrest the individual, and we don't get a piece of it.
    Mr. Gimenez. Do you have arrest powers?
    Mr. Casaretti. I'm sorry?
    Mr. Gimenez. Does the Federal Air Marshal Service, do you 
have arrest powers?
    Mr. Casaretti. Yes.
    Mr. Gimenez. You do. OK. If something happens on an 
aircraft, again, some incident, et cetera, that may be a 
violation of law, who gets called for that?
    Mr. Casaretti. So different situation. That's our special 
aircraft jurisdiction. We share concurrent jurisdiction on 
those things with the FBI. There are a lot of things on the 
aircraft we wouldn't get involved in that are low-level. We 
would just activate and do something if there was a threat to 
life and the aircraft itself.
    Mr. Gimenez. Somebody assaults, let's say, a flight 
attendant. Would you be involved in that? Would the Federal Air 
Marshal Services be involved in that? Or would you be doing the 
arresting, or it would be somebody else?
    Mr. Casaretti. Absolutely. On flight, we'd take care of the 
incident, obviously arresting the individual. Usually a hand-
off to local law enforcement would happen, or if there was a 
responding agent able to respond, the FBI might be notified and 
they might respond.
    Mr. Gimenez. One final question that I have is, and I do 
intend to have a Classified briefing about the Quiet Skies and 
how people get on it and what the rules are and because, 
obviously, it needs to be in a Classified setting, but I'm also 
concerned as my colleague from Louisiana about how--what these 
rules are and how certain people get on them. We've heard of 
some names that are on it. They're frankly quite disturbing as 
to why they would be on it.
    But I'm going to have--my final question is about the 
scheduling. It would seem to me that an air marshal, a system 
like that that goes on flights and surveils flights and 
protects flights, would be very--the scheduling and the work 
hours would be quite similar to what the aircraft personnel or 
the pilot, the co-pilots, the flight attendants would follow. 
Do you follow that kind of schedule or is it something 
completely different?
    Mr. Casaretti. It is completely different insomuch that 
airline employees are able to change their shifts. They're 
feeling tired, they give up a trip. Air marshals can't do that. 
There is a variety of reasons why they can't, especially when 
you're talking about international deployments, because there's 
country clearances to be considered, so you will not be able to 
switch an individual off an aircraft when they've already been 
cleared to go to that destination.
    However, the local or the CONUS trips, the continental U.S. 
trips, that's a whole different story. If there was more like a 
flight attendant or a pilot schedule, there would be the 
ability to swap back and forth when you feel tired so you can 
stay healthy. There is no ability for air marshals to do that, 
and I think that's a huge difference that affects why we're 
unhealthy.
    Mr. Gimenez. Do you get paid overtime for anything over 40 
hours?
    Mr. Casaretti. There is a provision of the FLSA that says 
we have to work 43, and because we're grouped in with regular 
law enforcement, we're paid on a rotating shift schedule, so 
what that basically means is TSA is able to game our schedules 
to deny us a lot of overtime pay. In the example I was using 
earlier about a 20-hour workday, they may have a shift that 
crosses midnight and the TSA says oh, that doesn't count 
anymore, it's a brand new day. So you got 8 hours of straight 
time and 8 hours of straight time, and therefore, hey, you only 
got 3 hours of overtime. But then they'll put you on a short 
domestic trip the next day so they're able to erase that 
overtime. It disappears.
    Mr. Gimenez. I mean, there's a Fair Labor Standards Act. Do 
you follow the Fair Labor Standards Act in terms of overtime, 
et cetera? You're not executive personnel. You're hourly 
personnel, right? Or are you not?
    Mr. Casaretti. The Court has ruled that we are covered 
under the FLSA, so we are under the FLSA. What we don't enjoy 
are the rest breaks and things like that that are mandated when 
we're on a flight. There's no break time.
    Mr. Gimenez. Fair enough. OK. I yield back and I recognize 
the Ranking Member.
    Mr. Thanedar. Thank you, Mr. Casaretti, for your testimony. 
So when you have longer flights, like 14-, 16-hour flights, are 
there multiple air marshals on those flights?
    Mr. Casaretti. Our assignments are based upon risk. The 
longer flights, usually it's a larger team, and that's also on 
the size of the aircraft itself. You have a working area that 
you can cover, a line of sight and where you can observe 
things, so if it's a bigger aircraft, obviously, we need 
multiple teams, one to cover the flight deck, one to take care 
of maybe bombs in the back of the aircraft if we find one, so 
there is larger teams and larger aircraft.
    Mr. Thanedar. OK. Now, the GAO's report came out before 
COVID, and I believe that FAMS were classified as essential 
employees and they're required to fly missions throughout the 
pandemic, which I imagine would have made mental health 
challenges even worse. How would you describe the mental state 
of most air marshals today? What resources do you believe would 
help air marshals who are struggling with their mental health?
    Mr. Casaretti. I think the mental state of most air 
marshals that have been flying for a long time is strained, and 
that's because it's a compounding thing month after month where 
you're having issues and not being home and not being able to 
contribute meaningfully to home life and contributions.
    For instance, one of the GAO reports that's in front of me, 
just to reference the estimated shift time, 29 percent of air 
marshals shifts were over 18 hours in 2019. That's just 
directly prior to the pandemic really affecting how we fly. If 
you're being scheduled almost 30 percent over 18-hour workdays, 
notwithstanding your commute and other things that you have to 
do to prepare, there's almost no time at home. You just cannot 
have a home life.
    My own family suffered terribly and we made a decision as a 
family for my wife to quit and home school our kids, and we've 
done that for 12 years just because it was the only time I 
could get with my family. So if you're not able to make those 
kinds of changes to your life, things devolve quickly, and we 
have a very high divorce rate in the FAMS.
    Mr. Thanedar. Typically, on an average, how many hours 
would they work per week?
    Mr. Casaretti. It varies. It depends on your scheduling. 
Mostly it depends on where your field office is located. 
Coastal field offices have a lot of international flights where 
a lot of the middle-of-the-country field offices do a lot of 
multiple-leg flights, 3, 4 a day, so it just depends.
    Mr. Thanedar. Are there hourly workers? Are there exempt 
salary workers?
    Mr. Casaretti. Air marshals are--it's FLSA workers, so we 
get paid a salary, but we get paid hourly for overtime 
purposes.
    Mr. Thanedar. All right. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Gimenez. Mr. Kennedy, do you have any questions? OK. 
Thank you.
    I will now recognize the gentleman from Louisiana again, 
Mr. Higgins.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Sherman, in your statement, you stated that since 2016, 
we've made 20 recommendations to address various challenges 
affecting the Federal Air Marshal Services.
    These generally fall into two areas. No. 1, organizational 
performance, and No. 2, work force management. Is that from 
your statement?
    Ms. Sherman. That's correct.
    Mr. Higgins. Yes, ma'am. Well, I'm going to ask you, Dr. 
Sherman, are you familiar with the fact that air marshals, 
generally speaking, is as broadly reflected in survey after 
survey? Air marshals want to do law enforcement work. They 
don't want to do political work. That's why they want out from 
under TSA. When you survey air marshals again and again and 
again, they don't want to be a part of TSA, because they feel 
that TSA is like political--has become a political extension of 
whoever is in charge. Air marshals want to have law enforcement 
missions on the plane.
    Mr. Casaretti, is that an accurate reflection of your 
surveys that show that 83 and 93 percent of air marshals want 
to leave TSA? Simply put, air marshals do not trust the TSA. 
After 24 years, that they want to be removed and placed in a 
law enforcement agency. Why? Because they want to perform law 
enforcement missions. Is that generally accurate?
    Mr. Casaretti. That's correct.
    Mr. Higgins. OK. So when you have a letter, Dr. Sherman, 
I'm going to ask you if they'll be more effective? If in your 
opinion the field air marshals are being more efficient, more 
effective agency performing for the American people and the law 
enforcement role, which is what they originally intended to do, 
not as political spies or political extensions of the 
weaponization of some political agenda out of this Executive 
branch or that Executive branch. These guys don't want to do 
that. They want to do law enforcement.
    So you're looking into the efficiency of the agencies 
talking about organizational performance and work force 
management when morale is low and turnover is high because the 
work force is not happy with the role that they're playing, 
then of course it will be less efficient than if you flip that 
switch. What survey after survey shows is that these guys want 
to do law enforcement work, not political work.
    But I ask you each to reflect upon these words from the 
letter on January 11, 2021 written by Chairman Bennie Thompson, 
who was the Chair of this committee at that time, Ranking 
Member now, Ranking Member John Katko, Republican. We were in 
the Minority. Sent a letter to TSA Administrator Pekoske--
nobody knew about this letter, by the way. Took me a year-and-
a-half to find out about this letter--to Pekoske asking for 
updates on current efforts to disrupt ``the travel of white 
supremacists''. Options available for ``denying air carrier 
service'' to individuals posing a potential threat following 
January 6. There you go, that pesky right to travel the land 
that Americans that enjoy Constitutional protections are 
supposed to enjoy.
    So we have the 2 top guys, Democrat and Republican, signing 
a letter to the--I almost used an acronym I'm not supposed to 
use in here, the man in charge at TSA saying hey, we want you 
to report to us on what you're doing to follow around using 
field air marshal services, to follow around these Republicans 
that came to the capital region on January 6.
    That's political stuff. This is why these guys don't want 
to be a part of TSA, this is why their performance is lagging, 
this is why turnover is high, this is why morale is low.
    So Mr. Casaretti, in my remaining 30 seconds, we covered a 
broad topic there. Should this body take action to make the 
field air marshals services a stand-alone law enforcement 
agency? I yield to the gentleman.
    Mr. Casaretti. Thank you, Congressman.
    I think that would be the best for the American people. I 
think we need to be out of the bureaucratic agency we find 
ourselves in, just be an arm of that. We need to be released to 
do the law enforcement work we all signed up to do.
    Mr. Higgins. Thank you, sir. Thank you, ma'am for being 
here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield.
    Mr. Gimenez. Thank you. I thank the witnesses for their 
valuable testimony and the Members for their questions. The 
Members of the subcommittee may have some additional questions 
for the witnesses and we would ask the witnesses to respond to 
these in writing.
    Pursuant to committee rule VII(D) the hearing record will 
be held open for 10 days. Without objection, this subcommittee 
stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:13 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

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