[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    LIFE AFTER LIMB LOSS: EXAMINING
                      VA AMPUTEE PROSTHETICS CARE
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-89

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       

                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                              __________
                              
                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
57-945                    WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
                   
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

               MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa, Chairwoman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       JULIA BROWNLEY, California, 
    American Samoa                       Ranking Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               MIKE LEVIN, California
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin             Pennsylvania
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Chairwoman...............     1
The Honorable Julia Brownley, Ranking Member.....................     3

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Mr. M. Christopher Saslo, DNS, APRN-BC, FAANP, Assistant Under 
  Secretary for Patient Care Services/Chief Nursing Officer, 
  Veterans Health Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans 
  Affairs........................................................     4

        Accompanied by:

    Dr. Joel Scholten, Executive Director, Physical Medicine and 
        Rehabilitation, Veterans Health Administration, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

    Dr. Ajit Pai, Executive Director, Office of Rehabilitation 
        and Prosthetic Services, Veterans Health Administration, 
        U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

    Mr. J. Drew Craig, Design Chief, Enterprise Measurement and 
        Design Directorate, Veterans Experience Office, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

                                Panel II

Mr. Jose Ramos, Vice President of Government and Community 
  Relations, Wounded Warrior Project.............................    18

Mr. Matt Brown, U.S. Army Veteran, The Independence Fund.........    20

Ms. Ashlie White, Chief Strategy and Programs Officer, Amputee 
  Coalition......................................................    22

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. M. Christopher Saslo, DNS, APRN-BC, FAANP Prepared Statement.    35
Mr. Jose Ramos Prepared Statement................................    40
Mr. Matt Brown Prepared Statement................................    52
Ms. Ashlie White Prepared Statement..............................    54

                       Statements For The Record

U.S. Government Accountability Office Prepared Statement.........    57
Mr. Scott Restivo Prepared Statement.............................    64
The American Legion Prepared Statement...........................    66

 
                    LIFE AFTER LIMB LOSS: EXAMINING
                      VA AMPUTEE PROSTHETICS CARE

                              ----------                              


                      WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 20, 2024

                    Subcommittee on Health,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:30 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mariannette 
Miller-Meek [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Miller-Meek, Bergman, Murphy, Van 
Orden, Luttrell, Brownley, Landsman, and Budzinski.
    Also present: Representative Rouzer.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, CHAIRWOMAN

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Hearing for the Subcommittee on Health 
will now come to order. Today we will be discussing the 
Department of Veterans Affairs' (VA) Amputation System of Care 
(ASOC) and the services provided to veteran amputees. At VA 
prosthetics include a wide range of devices, from eyeglasses to 
hearing aids to prosthetic limbs. If I could manage to turn the 
page. Although our main focus today will be on amputee 
prosthetics, I want to highlight the VA's recent failures 
related to purchasing and budgeting for prosthetics. In July, 
committee staff visited the Rocky Mountain VA Medical Center in 
Colorado and discovered that thousands of prosthetic orders had 
been improperly canceled. As a clinician, I was appalled that 
this could happen and it is clearly unacceptable.
    Earlier this month, I was informed that the VA's claimed 
budget shortfall for healthcare, which they argued was related 
to the cost of prosthetics, was a huge exaggeration. If the VA 
cannot even budget correctly for prosthetics and routinely 
cancels orders, how can veterans, especially those living with 
the visible wounds of war, trust that they will receive the 
prosthetics they need? We cannot and should not accept this as 
status quo. Prosthetic care is essential to the bedrock of VA's 
mission. This means assisting veterans with regaining 
functionality and working to improve their quality of life 
after limb loss as a result of their service in uniform. Each 
year, VA sees approximately 95,000 new amputations, primarily 
due to vascular disease or diabetes. However, VA also treats a 
significant number of post 9-11 veterans with combat related 
amputations.
    As veterans' needs evolve, it is the VA's responsibility to 
provide the highest quality of care and advances in research to 
meet those needs. VA services vary across its facilities, but 
its seven fully equipped regional amputation centers can offer 
comprehensive care from prosthetic fabrication to full 
inpatient rehabilitation. These centers should set the standard 
for world class care for prosthetics, and in many cases they 
do. VA's amputee care serves nearly 100,000 veterans annually, 
with many receiving exceptional care. However, the committee 
has heard of significant delays in veterans receiving their 
prosthetics.
    For one example, one veteran recently told my team that he 
has spent over a year waiting for a functional prosthetic leg. 
For 10 of those months, as you can see here, he had to rely on 
duct tape to hold his prosthetic together. Since March 2023, he 
has been forced to travel out of State every 3 months for 
appointments. Despite these repeated trips, there is still no 
timeline for when he will receive his new prosthetic limb. Now, 
it should not take a congressional hearing for him to hear back 
from the VA or for the VA to respond to this veteran. He should 
receive the latest state-of-the-art updated prosthetic limb 
now, ASAP. Veterans depend on these devices for their daily 
lives and waiting for years for our prosthetic limb, socket, or 
terminal device is unacceptable. I expect we are going to hear 
similar stories today.
    Like other VA offices, VA's amputation centers face 
understaffing and are often riddled with bureaucratic 
inefficiencies. These challenges, exacerbated by the Biden 
Harris Administration's poor leadership and staffing decisions, 
are uniquely devastating to veteran amputees. These 
bureaucratic delays not only impact veterans physical health, 
but they also take a toll on their mental well-being, resulting 
in more time in healthcare facilities and less time spent with 
their families enjoying life or advancing their careers. As a 
veteran and a physician, I know we can do better. In addition 
to these issues, veterans face barriers in accessing adaptive 
prosthetic limbs and terminal devices for sports and 
recreational activities. Devices that can be life changing. The 
committee has heard numerous stories of veterans being denied 
these adaptive prosthetics. That is why I recently introduced 
H.R. 9478, the Veterans Supporting Prosthetics Opportunities 
and Recreational Therapy Act or the Veterans Sport Act. This 
bill would ensure these adaptive prostheses and terminal 
devices are defined as clinically necessary for veterans living 
with limb loss.
    I am committed to working with the VA to ensure we provide 
our veterans with timely, high quality prosthetic care that 
they deserve so that they have access to what they need to live 
the most fulfilling life possible and the most fulfilling work. 
During today's hearing, we will delve deeper into these issues, 
hear from witnesses and work toward common sense solutions. 
Thank you all for being here and I look forward to a productive 
discussion on this critical topic.
    Before I introduce the witnesses on our first panel, I ask 
unanimous consent that our colleague, Representative David 
Rouser be waived on for this hearing. Hearing no objection. We 
will move forward. I now will yield to Ranking Member Brownley 
for any opening remarks you may have.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF JULIA BROWNLEY, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Brownley. Thank you Chairwoman Miller-Meeks and thank 
you to our witnesses for being here today. Veterans living with 
amputations deserve access to the most comprehensive pre and 
post amputation care that VA can provide. I am looking forward 
to hearing from our VA witnesses on Panel One about how they 
currently provide this care and areas of improvement and 
advancements that they are seeking. I am also looking forward 
to hearing from our Panel Two witnesses about their own 
experiences and experiences of those they represent with VA 
care.
    Veterans with amputations from any cause must receive well-
coordinated and comprehensive care from providers including 
their physicians, physical and occupational therapists, 
prosthetic providers and mental health providers. It is crucial 
that we support the provisions of all these types of care to 
ensure that every veteran receives the unique combination of 
these services needed to meet their medical and personal goals. 
While I understand that not every VA facility has the capacity 
to manufacture prosthetics, I look forward to hearing more 
about how VA is working to build in house capacity while 
continuing to work with contracting and vendor partners, 
improve communication with providers in the community, and 
ensure it is providing wraparound services for veterans in its 
care.
    I am especially glad to hear of the work VA is doing to 
both prevent disease progression to avoid amputation as well as 
to the advances in technology and treatment options available 
for those who do receive amputation. This includes VA programs 
like the Preventive and Amputation in Veterans Everywhere or 
PAVE, a program that has been established at every VA medical 
facility and researched through the VA center for Limb Loss and 
Mobility. As we continue to advance our medical understanding 
of these diseases, they can lead to the need for amputations. I 
am sorry, that would lead to the need for more amputations. We 
must continue to improve the care we are providing our 
veterans.
    It is also clear we are living in a time of exciting 
advancements for prosthetic options. With the use of telehealth 
technology, VA providers can be more connected than ever to 
ensure veterans and other providers are communicating about 
veterans' prosthetic needs. Additionally, with advances like 3D 
printing, we have more control than ever over how and where VA 
can manufacture prosthetics and ensure a proper and effective 
fit. I look forward to hearing more about how VA is already 
using this technology and how it can be expanded upon. This 
will be especially important for women veterans who make up a 
small but growing number of the total patients with amputations 
that receive care at VA.
    As U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) notes in its 
statement for the record for this hearing, women veterans have 
reported facing difficulty in finding properly fitting 
prosthetics as they are generally sized for men. However, the 
ability to 3D print prosthetics that are designed to fit their 
bodies and accommodate their clothing and shoe options will be 
revolutionary for women veterans. I am also grateful to Mr. 
Ramos and Mr. Brown for being here and willing to share their 
experiences and expertise, as well as Mr. Restivo who has 
submitted a statement for the record. I find this committee's 
work is most impactful when we can hear a variety of veterans 
experiences with the care VA provides and identify common 
ground where those services and care can be improved. I look 
forward to continuing that today.
    Finally, I welcome hearing from our witnesses at the 
Amputee Coalition about its work to support VA's amputation 
care. Having the support of a community of individuals who 
understand the challenges of living with any physical change is 
crucial, including for veterans living with amputations. I am 
glad the Coalition can provide that through its Peer Visitor 
Program and National Support Group Network, and I am looking 
forward to hearing more about the types of support that we can 
expand upon. Thank you again to our witnesses and for being 
here and I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you Ranking Member Brownley.
    I would now like to introduce the Panel One witnesses 
testifying before us today. We have Dr. Christopher Saslo, 
Assistant Undersecretary for Health Patient Care Services at 
the Department of Veterans Affairs. Accompanying Dr. Saslo 
representing the Department of Veteran Affairs are Dr. Joel 
Scholten, Executive Director of Physical Medicine and 
Rehabilitation, Dr. Ajit Pai, Executive Director, Office of 
Rehabilitation and Prosthetic Services and Mr. Drew Craig, 
Design Chief, Enterprise Measurement and Design Directorate, 
Veterans Experience Offices (VEO). Dr. Saslo, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your opening statement.

               STATEMENT OF M. CHRISTOPHER SASLO

    Dr. Saslo. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks and 
Ranking Member Brownley and members of the subcommittee. I 
appreciate the opportunity to address the subcommittee today 
regarding VA's amputation system of care. Joining me today as 
you heard is our Executive Director for the Office of Rehab and 
Prosthetics, Dr. Ajit Pai. I am also accompanied by the 
Executive Director of Physical Medicine and Rehab, Dr. Joel 
Scholten and Mr. Drew Craig, who is our Design Chief for VA 
Enterprise, Measurement and Design Directorate. My colleagues 
and I are pleased to share how VA cares for veterans with limb 
loss. Overarchingly, the department employs an 
interdisciplinary team based approach focused on maximizing 
each veteran's functional ability and independence. Each 
amputation procedure presents unique challenges which requires 
specialized follow-up care. VA is committed to building on our 
record of excellence when addressing amputation related needs 
of our veterans. We provide lifelong specialty care benefits 
which includes ensuring access to advanced prosthetics and 
instructor rehabilitative services. VA's amputation system of 
care connects the Nation's heroes to the expert services as 
close to their home as possible.
    In Fiscal Year 2024, the amputation system of care provided 
care to 18,387 veterans through 38,122 encounters that included 
7,896 virtual visits. The roughly 18,000 veterans we cared for 
represents a significant 12.5 percent increase in our 
prosthetic health delivery over Fiscal Year 2023. Further, new 
patients experience a low average wait time of 26.5 days. 
Patient satisfaction remains high in Fiscal Year 2024 with the 
95 percent of our veterans reporting feeling respected during 
clinic visits and 92.8 percent reporting satisfaction with 
their inclusion in care delivery. The Amputation System of Care 
model emphasizes lifelong care which centers on the whole 
health of each veteran including physical and mental well-
being. Key pillars include preoperative education so that they 
know what to expect throughout their wellness journey.
    VA performs annual assessments thereafter as part of the 
Whole Health approach which incorporates peer support and 
adaptive supports. We also offer comprehensive training for 
providers, specialists, patients, caregivers and families. The 
U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) and VA continue to collaborate 
to ensure seamless, high-quality care for service members and 
our veterans. VA and DoD utilize the Extremity Trauma and 
Amputation Center of Excellence to advance discovery and 
clinical practice. In service to veterans' whole health, the 
department creates new mutual educational programming and has 
created a network of amputation rehab coordinators. In 
conjunction with the DoD, VA's Office of Advanced Manufacturing 
allocates resources to develop and manufacture U.S. Food and 
Drug Administration (FDA) compliant advanced medical devices. 
In recent years, VA has made significant prosthetic 
advancements. We modernized our workflows through the 
implementation of 3D technology and through increased use of 
our telehealth visits.
    Other current innovations include a 3D printed foot system 
to enable veterans to wear shoes of any size type and heel 
height. VA is also testing a prosthetic system which allows 
users to feel touch through their prosthetics. The next gen 
prosthetic devices utilize advanced algorithms to produce real 
time measurements which improves functionality. Surgical 
advancements includes the ERTL technique, targeted muscle 
reinnervation and FDA approved osseointegration implantation. 
VA's groundbreaking research includes a multi-site study which 
tests an internally developed bone anchored prosthetic docking 
system. At VA, we do much of our work to create positive 
veteran outcomes from within. However, we also rely on private 
sector partners to advance our mission of care. The network of 
veterans service organizations aid VA in caring for veterans 
experiencing delays or challenges with amputation related care 
and we continue to learn at every opportunity.
    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley thank you 
again for your opportunity to provide remarks on VA's holistic 
approach to amputee care. Our commitment to ensuring that all 
veterans receive the solutions and respect they deserve remains 
steadfast. My colleagues and I are ready to address any 
questions you may have on how we can advance our mission.

    [The Prepared Statement Of M. Christopher Saslo Appears In 
The Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Saslo. As has 
been my protocol, I will defer my line of questioning to the 
end. I now recognize Ranking Member Brownley for 5 minutes for 
any questions she may have.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Saslo, 
the GAO's statement for the record for this hearing identified 
that one of the issues facing VA researchers in this area, 
particularly for women veteran research, is recruitment, giving 
the smaller population. Can you expand on how VA is addressing 
this challenge?
    Dr. Saslo. Yes, ma'am. I will start off, and then I will 
turn it over to my colleagues. We have a number of ways that we 
continue to advance the research of our female veterans. Of 
course, you mentioned the Rehabilitation and Engineering Center 
for Optimizing Veteran Engagement and Reintegration (RECOVER) 
center, which we look at our 3D printed foot. We also have done 
a number of research studies since 2017. We have actually 
completed seven studies. We have five that are ongoing, and we 
have one that is a new study. We can actually offer that into 
submission for the record to actually go over all the different 
studies that we have been working through. I will turn it over 
to Dr. Pai and Dr. Scholten.
    Dr. Scholten. Thank you, Dr. Saslo. I would also add that 
VA uses the electronic health record so we can identify and 
recruit subjects not only from the site where the research is 
being conducted, but we can actually recruit nationwide to 
improve the pool of applicants and increase the number of 
females in the study. The Office of Research and Development 
also includes funding support for travel and some of these 
studies where there is a harder time to recruit individuals, so 
they will include the travel piece within the research budget. 
Finally, the Office of Research and Development also has 
developed the Women's Enhancement recruitment process, which is 
a toolkit that all researchers can use so we can increase the 
number of female participants in all of our research studies.
    Ms. Brownley. Can we have the new research that Dr. Saslo 
referenced written into the record?
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Without objection.
    Ms. Brownley. I wanted to--so you know, in reading my staff 
report here, that 73 percent of veterans who need prosthetics 
is because of diabetes and not because of injury, which is just 
a shocking statistic to me. I will just say that it seems as 
though the VA should be so razor focused on diabetes to prevent 
them ever having to come over to your department to get some 
form of prosthetics. I think with women, I have to assume that. 
I think the women population is about 20 percent in that area. 
In terms of veterans who have received prosthetics. I have to--
my sense is that women are more likely to need a prosthetic 
because of injury and not diabetes since they are younger. You 
know, they are younger and we did not have women fighting in 
Vietnam, for example, and so forth. If you agree with that 
assumption, then I am very interested in this new study that 
you are talking about. Is there anything more that you can be 
doing for women who need to receive a prosthetic because of an 
injury? Is there anything more? I know the 3D printing I think, 
is a big one. I would be interested to know kind of what the 
women's satisfaction level is within the VA in terms of those 
who receive a prosthetic. If you could just talk a little bit 
more.
    Dr. Saslo. I will just comment on the fact that as you 
heard me mention earlier, our satisfaction stories overall are 
very high. However, to your point, we continue to look at how 
we can focus our efforts on our growing population female 
veterans, as you mentioned. As they are a younger population 
and our fastest growing population, I will turn it over to Dr. 
Scholten, who may be able to address a little bit further.
    Dr. Scholten. Yes, unfortunately, I do not have the 
breakdown of VA trust scores, female versus male in the 
amputation clinic, but we do make every effort to outreach to 
of female veterans with limb loss. We have. We actually rely 
very heavily on our Veteran Service Organization (VSO) partners 
to encourage female veterans to engage with VA and engage with 
the amputation----
    Ms. Brownley. If you guys, I only have 17 seconds left, but 
if you could talk a little bit about what the VA is doing with 
regards to diabetes and addressing that so that we can reduce 
this percentage of veterans who need a prosthetic.
    Dr. Scholten. We have a complete diabetes management team 
and our Patient Aligned Care Teams (PACT) implement that with 
veterans. As you mentioned before, the PAVE Score or the PAVE 
program helps with prevention of amputation. There is a whole 
health approach essentially for the prevention, for the 
wellness and the diabetic management in order to prevent 
amputation care.
    Ms. Brownley. Thanks.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ranking Member Brownley. The 
Chair now recognizes Dr. Murphy for 5 minutes for any questions 
he may have.
    Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you all to 
the witnesses for coming today. I think your assumption that 
older veterans that are primarily female, I just think seeing a 
lot of older patients myself, generally diabetes is worse in 
older individuals and as far as the amputation risk, it is much 
higher then. You know, guys, I serve on this committee because 
I am not a veteran, but one out of ten of my constituents are 
and I am increasingly now just frustrated upon frustrated upon 
frustrated about delays, missed appointments, not being able to 
get referrals. I just want to pull my hair out. I had a long 
call with one of them yesterday who was at his wit's end and 
bounced around VA's gets referred back and forth. You get sent 
to community care. The community care doctor cannot send you to 
an appropriate referral. They have to bounce you back to your 
primary person who may or may not really get to that. The VA 
has lost yet another opportunity to provide excellent care to 
our veterans.
    When it goes on with prosthetics, this is difficult time. I 
mean, I get it. It is not only a change in your ability to 
ambulate or to pick up something, it is also just a change in 
your entire mental calculus on how you view yourself. Delays 
just in these type of instances where you have veterans delayed 
in wheelchairs for extended period of times, not ambulatory, 
not able to get things back. I am reading about the difference 
between the philosophy of DoD versus veterans and how veterans 
actually prefer DoD because they want to get their life back 
and get back into action, if you will, is really something, I 
think a particular note. Just if I can get a few questions, Dr. 
Saslo, can you tell me how the VA is ensuring that individuals 
with lower limb loss who are confined to wheelchairs due to 
malfunctioning prosthetics, legs sockets, how do they receive 
timely repairs? How do they receive replacements that restore 
their mobility? Do you have any statistics that tell me about 
timeliness?
    Dr. Saslo. Well, I will start off with the timeliness 
piece, sir, and that is that our access itself actually falls 
below the target of 28 days, where our access metrics show an 
ability to get veterans into care within 26 days. While that is 
not ideal----
    Mr. Murphy. Can you define into care?
    Dr. Saslo. Getting into an appointment?
    Mr. Murphy. Okay.
    Dr. Saslo. While that is not ideal, we certainly want to 
try to make sure that our veterans mobility is addressed as 
quickly as possible. I do not know if, Dr. Scholten, you would 
like to address it a little further.
    Dr. Scholten. Sure. I am not sure I can speak specifically 
to the sub cohort of individuals you are referring to that have 
had a challenge with their prosthetic device or their 
wheelchair. We have done extensive work to and we are launching 
a wheelchair repair contract which will help improve access for 
veterans and the speed and efficiency to get wheelchair repairs 
made. We encourage for any veteran with limb loss that is 
engaged with their amputation team they have the ability to 
communicate by phone, by secure message, and any way possible 
to try to connect with the team and allow for the appropriate 
appointment to occur in a timely manner.
    Mr. Murphy. Does the VA monitor anything of any 
complications that can occur from delays? You know, you delay a 
wound, you get cubitus ulcers, you get some other things for 
people sitting in wheelchairs and et cetera, et cetera. Does 
the VA monitor any of that? That is a quality measure that the 
private world does.
    Dr. Scholten. I do not have any specific information on 
that question.
    Mr. Murphy. Can you guys tell me briefly about training 
that our prosthetic staff at the VA gets, how they deal with 
these cases? What kind of individuals are training our 
veterans?
    Dr. Saslo. Sure. Dr. Pai.
    Dr. Pai. Yes, happy to answer that. We have robust training 
programs for rehabilitation therapies, whether they are 
physical therapy, occupational therapy, as well as for 
Certified Prosthetists and Orthotists (CPO). We have the most 
robust training programs for certified prosthetists, orthotists 
in the country. We have 15 sites that train 26 trainees 
annually. The majority of these individuals are recruited then 
for VA employee employment down the line. We can use these 
programs as our pipeline.
    For physical therapy, we have 54 training programs not 
specific to amputee care, but in general, over 900 trainees and 
the majority of 80 percent of physical therapy trainees are 
recruited down the line for VA employment.
    Mr. Murphy. You know, I get that the world. I was in a 
physical therapy office in the civilian world in my district, I 
do not know, six, 8 weeks ago. Very difficult to find physical 
therapists, as with any healthcare official or position these 
days. I will tell you, I just am getting more and more and more 
frustrated to hearing from our veterans that they cannot access 
a system that is built for them. There are frustrations, and it 
is not just with this particular committee meeting, of access 
to community care, access overall. I will tell you, I am 
hopeful that in the next administration, the new veteran 
secretary is going to really shake up the VA to determine that 
we are doing things costly, I mean, cost effectively and 
efficiently, and most importantly, providing quality and timely 
care to our veterans. Guys, I just, you cannot sell a product 
that is not working for the people to whom it is supposed to be 
purchased. By whom it is supposed to be purchased. Thank you, 
Madam Chair. I am going to yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, the chair now recognizes the 
gentlelady from Illinois for whatever questions she may have.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you to our 
Ranking Member and thank you to the panelists for being here on 
a very important topic today. Taking a look at amputee 
prosthetic care for our veterans. I wanted to pick up just on 
what Ranking Member Brownley was talking a little bit about 
specifically around our women veterans. The GAO report on 
prosthetics for female veterans. One issue that was raised by 
veterans was the lack of commercially available prosthetic 
options that VA providers can use to meet women's needs. My 
question is for Mr. Saslo, what steps has the VA taken to work 
around these challenges present in the prosthetics market 
generally and specifically for women veterans? As a second 
question, how do these challenges differ by type of limb loss, 
such as lower versus upper limb loss?
    Dr. Saslo. I will be happy to start, but one of the things 
I want to emphasize is that, as Dr. Scholten mentioned earlier, 
we really do rely on our electronic health record to really 
look at how we can match the needs of our specific veteran 
population to how we can best address treating them. One of the 
things I think is also important to recognize is that we 
partner very aggressively with our Office of Research and 
Development in looking at how we can develop those recruitment 
processes in order to be able to study our female veterans as 
well as the rest of our population. One thing I will say is 
that we recognize that lower limb loss is a much higher 
prevalence than our upper limb loss. I think we have done a 
great deal of research when it comes to how our upper limb loss 
can be addressed, especially in our female veterans. I will 
talk to, I will let Dr. Scholten talk a little bit more about 
that.
    Dr. Scholten. I would just add that each individual, each 
veteran is treated as an individual, so they are assessed and 
provided an individualized plan of care. That, of course, would 
include which type of amputation they have experienced, as well 
as what are their goals, what were their recreational 
activities, pre-amputation, as well as things they are 
interested in doing post amputation. The VA has also partnered, 
as Dr. Saslo mentioned, with our research partners. As a result 
of that, I did want to reemphasize that the RECOVER program, 
which is out of the Minneapolis VA, they have created a 3D 
printed custom ankle, custom printed foot system so you can 
adjust the heel height to accommodate whichever shoe you want 
to wear. We have made some significant advancements to provide 
some unique customization for prosthetic devices for females. 
There is certainly a long way to go. There is not a lot 
commercially available, but we are hoping to rely on the 
innovation of our VA staff to help move the needle forward.
    Dr. Pai. Add to that, at the Denver VA, they are working 
specifically on upper extremities, so different size hands for 
women Veterans and at the Tampa VA they are looking at the 
prosthetic--they call it a brasthesis or sports bra for women 
with upper limb needs.
    Mr. Craig. Yes. I just wanted to add, we recently completed 
a deep dive into amputee and adaptive driving in the Veteran 
Experience office. Two of the things that we came away clearly 
hearing as bright spots was that veterans truly appreciate the 
way they are treated as individuals, which is not something we 
normally hear when we are out doing our research and also the 
passion of the providers. I mean, I can imagine how it would be 
pretty easy to be very passionate about this, but that is two 
of the bright spots. I think it goes to what you were asking.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you. Thank you. If I could just. With 
the time I have remaining, I wanted to shift gears to rural 
health and accessibility. Mr. Saslo, I understand the VA's 
amputation system of care operates as a tiered system with four 
levels of care into which each medical facility is classified. 
How does the VA ensure that care is consistent across its 
medical facilities, particularly in rural areas where we know 
in districts like mine, we just have fewer providers.
    Dr. Saslo. I think the really great part is that as the 
amputation system of care not only has a regional amputation 
centers, but they also have the polytrauma amputation network. 
It is across the entire country where it is a very 
comprehensive training program that is done every year. We work 
with not only the facilities, the providers, but we also make 
sure that there are opportunities for us to learn from our 
community partners. The other thing that I think we are very 
proud of is our mobile prosthetics, which we have. It is a 
rural funded prosthetics process. We have 15 sites in 11 
states, including 32 of our Community-Based Outpatient Clinics 
(CBOC). We are looking at expanding to another five sites just 
in Fiscal Year 2025. I think there is an awful lot of 
opportunity. We have served over 4,200 veterans using that 
process with over 6,000 visits.
    Ms. Budzinski. I will yield back. Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes 
General Bergman for 5 minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Thanks for all of 
you for being here. I am going to ask a question that I do not 
expect an answer to because inside you will know what your 
answer is and not necessarily to be talked about now, is the VA 
being reactive or proactive on the majority of the time? Okay. 
The answer is sometimes you got to be either, you know, each 
different. Okay. Proactivity tends to lead toward less need to 
be reactive, if that makes, you know, any kind of sense. Having 
said that, Dr. Saslo, how does the VA ensure its prosthetists? 
That is a tough one to roll off the tongue. Prosthetists stay 
informed about the latest advancements in prosthetic limb 
technology and innovation?
    Dr. Saslo. Thank you for the question. I think, as we 
mentioned a little bit earlier, there is a lot of training that 
goes on not only from a national, but a regional. We also use 
the concepts of having the three regional amputation centers 
that our physical medicine rehab have fellowships on. We try to 
make sure that we make training as available as we can.
    Mr. Bergman. I know, I think you, probably because I walked 
in late, you might have already answered that in some way, 
shape or form.
    Dr. Saslo. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay, so let me ask you a slightly different, 
from a different angle, is there any modeling and simulation 
that is used? If that was asked before, I apologize. To do what 
you do.
    Dr. Scholten. I would just add that we work very closely 
with the Department of Defense to review all emerging evidence 
when it comes to amputation care and update our clinical 
practice guidelines every 5 years. In addition, we partner with 
DoD to have training opportunities to learn about the latest 
advancements in prosthetic technology as it emerges so that 
service members and veterans have access to the latest 
technology.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay, well, I am not making a pitch for 
anything in particular here, but each year, Sunday after 
Thanksgiving through the Tuesday, but the show floor opens on 
Monday, Interservice/Industry Training, Simulation and 
Education (I/ITSEC) Modeling and Simulation Conference takes 
place in Orlando. It is a place where obviously a lot of DoD 
folks go, and there is a lot of innovative technologies there 
and good panels, good education. I would suggest if somebody 
from the VA is not attending, it is like you are missing a 
chance to not have to rely on the DoD for what it might tell 
you is there. I would be proactive and send somebody down 
there. Dr. Saslo, what is Veterans Health Administration (VHA) 
doing to get real time feedback from the amputee patient 
population to take corrective action when necessary, and also 
address local facility level issues? What kind of real time 
feedback chain do you got going?
    Dr. Saslo. In addition to the patient satisfaction surveys 
that we use, we also have a veteran experience that looks at 
how we can improve and what we have done. With that, I will 
turn it over to Drew because he is got some really great, 
robust information.
    Mr. Craig. Yes, sir. Each of the outpatient journeys has a 
stop code that is associated with a particular type of clinic, 
and the stop code that is associated with amputation the scores 
are remarkably high among ease, effectiveness, emotional 
resonance and transparency, equity. The lowest score on this 
for this quarter is 83.5. That is graded on a liker score of 1 
through 5. If they give us a 4, I trust I agree with the 
statement made or I strongly agree that we consider that an 
indication of satisfaction with that particular piece. 93 
percent overall satisfaction and 89.4 percent in overall 
quality. These are assessed by ongoing. What triggers the 
survey is a visit to the amputation clinic and then the veteran 
receives a survey. It is not 100 percent, it is not a canvas, 
it is surveys. Out of this one this quarter we have received 
384 responses from veterans who were seen for amputee issues.
    Dr. Saslo. If I could just add on to that really quickly, 
we have a process called a completed post-delivery checkout 
where we look to try to make sure that the veteran actually has 
the opportunity to tell us that we have met their needs, what, 
how their fit is, what their performance is, what their comfort 
is. So far, that we have been successful in trying to address 
81 percent of those. While our goal is always 100 percent, we 
have actually improved our scores of being able to do those 
evaluations to 81. We continue to move that forward. Sir.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Madam Chair. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, General Bergman. The 
Chair now recognizes Representative Landsman for 5 minutes for 
any questions he may have.
    Mr. Landsman. Thank you, Madam Chair. Dr. Saslo, I just, in 
your testimony, you talked about the work that you all are 
doing to address the gaps in orthotics and prosthetic services. 
Including challenges, limited access. Including challenges like 
limited access in the Midwest. I represent the 1st 
congressional district in Ohio. That is southwest Ohio, and was 
hoping you could talk a little bit about some of the 
strategies. Just going into greater detail on what you all are 
doing to address those gaps. What we should be doing, where I 
should be doing to be helpful. It is to everyone. Starting with 
you, Doctor.
    Dr. Saslo. Sure. I appreciate that. As I mentioned earlier, 
one of the things we are proud of is the fact that we do 
utilize our mobile prosthetics. We also have other mechanisms 
that we are trying to make sure, such as our in-house 
fabrication at 89 different sites. I do not know, Dr. Pai, if 
you would like to also address some of the opportunities.
    Dr. Pai. Yes, certainly. Our prosthetists will oftentimes 
use scanning technology to get a sense of the limb that is 
needed to be fabricated. Right. If they do not have the 
fabrication lab onsite, then they can send that out to a 
centralized fabrication lab within VA that is in house. Then 
the limb is created there, the components, the socket that is 
fabricated, plus the different components are sent back to the 
facility. The prosthetists onsite can put that together and 
work with the veteran. They can make adjustments there at their 
location. They can also do those adjustments in those mobile 
prosthetic vehicles. It is called Mobile Prosthetic and 
Orthotic Care (MOPOC) that we have at those 15 sites. Then the 
other thing that we do quite a bit is virtual care. If, and 
maybe Dr. Scholten, you want to talk about virtual care from an 
ASOC standpoint.
    Dr. Scholten. Sure. We have, as Dr. Pai mentioned, we have 
leveraged virtual care extensively in order to not only improve 
access, but also equity across all areas of the country. Really 
focusing on our rural areas, we have been able to expand our 
amputation clinic team. Now there are only nine VA sites that 
do not have a full team. Now a full team would be considered, 
may include some virtual team members that are beaming in to 
kind of participate with the veteran and the therapist or the 
provider that is with the veteran. We have, we are down to only 
nine sites that do not have a fully functioning team. We 
leverage our other VA capabilities of beneficiary travel in 
order to kind of--in order to allow access for veterans to get 
to the right level of care. In Fiscal Year 2024, we did perform 
almost 8,000 virtual care visits really to really emphasizing 
how we are reaching out to veterans.
    Mr. Landsman. Considering all that, very helpful. As we 
look at next year's budget or finishing this year's budget, 
which will most likely happen next year. What as it relates to 
these gaps which sound like are being filled or you all have 
strategies, is there anything that I should be pushing for are 
those of us who represent Midwest districts should be pushing 
for to be helpful?
    Dr. Saslo. I think, as I mentioned, you know, we are 
looking at the expansion of those mobile sites as well. The 
mobile sites being Fiscal Year 2025, the mobile prosthetics 
labs. One of the other things I think is also important is that 
we really do rely on our community partnerships as well. In 
those areas where VA cannot provide the fabrication or the 
prosthetic services, we try to make sure that our community 
partners are heavily engaged. The one thing that I think that 
we continue to work at evolving is how those partnerships can 
be strengthened in making sure that we are delivering the same 
type of care through our community partners as we do through 
the VA because we have recognized that there are some gaps in 
the way that our customer satisfaction exists and we have 
opportunities to improve that.
    Mr. Landsman. It is great. Thank you all. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I thank you very much Representative 
Landsman. The Chair now recognizes Representative Luttrell for 
5 minutes for any questions he may have.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, good afternoon, 
gentlemen. Mr. Saslo, you and Mr. Scholten mention the 
electronic healthcare records and how that information shares, 
how you are gathering information. Just going to piggyback off 
of Mr. Landsman's statement and Ms. Budzinski statement, I 
think, because there seems to be a shortness when we are 
dealing with women veterans on the sizing, sizing scope and 
scale of their prosthetics. Now, I am very well aware that the 
electronic healthcare record system is broken. There is only 
six facilities out of 172 facilities in the continental United 
States that communicate to each other. My question is, maybe 
you can enlighten me on this. I am trying to get clarification 
on this as we kind of wade through these difficult waters. How 
are you aggregating enough data that you can share across 
multiple sites if only six sites are talking to each other?
    Dr. Saslo. I am not sure where the six sites information is 
coming from, sir, but all of our----
    Mr. Luttrell. I just talked to the Secretary today.
    Dr. Saslo. All of our sites have the ability to draw data 
from across the entire enterprise.
    Mr. Luttrell. Communicate to all 172 sites?
    Dr. Saslo. Yes. The CBOC's as well, it draws from the 
electronic health record, depending upon the type of data you 
are trying to pull. It will go oftentimes by diagnostic code. 
It will actually look at the age, the demographics as a whole. 
Much of our data that we have through the Office of Prosthetics 
and Rehabilitation, actually we have individuals that work on 
that data aggregation and help us to drive the care that we are 
providing for it. I do not know, Dr. Pai, if you would like to 
expand on that a little bit more.
    Dr. Pai. Yes, certainly. You are alluding to the disparate 
Veterans Health Information Systems and Technology Architecture 
(VistA) systems that are in our Legacy----
    Mr. Luttrell. Yes. Yep. Correct.
    Dr. Pai. All of that data does get pulled into our data 
bases, our national data bases that we were able to pull data 
from for, to aggregate and to review on a national level. We 
can utilize that data to provide direction to our clinicians in 
the field or to our clinical programming.
    Mr. Luttrell. From Washington State. All the way to the 
Bronx. You guys can communicate without any interruption?
    Dr. Pai. Yes.
    Mr. Luttrell. It is fascinating because I am going to take 
what you are telling me and, and I am going to go back to Mr. 
Elnahal, have the same conversation.
    Dr. Pai. As a clinician, so I worked in a facility as a 
clinician for a number of years. During that time, I could look 
at. We could be able to pull in records from other VA's through 
our joint Legacy viewer or even through the Vista system.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay, is there a, for lack of a better term, 
is there an enclave that exists inside the VA when it comes to 
aggregating amputees data set data information that--because if 
I understand this correctly, and I have too many friends that 
are missing limbs, there is a series of stages that go along 
with. Once they lose their limb, they get their primary, 
secondary, tertiary, and then their final prosthetic. Is there 
an enclave in place that these data facilities that the VA 
facilities can access? If a veteran is in one of the remote 
places that says, hey, look, here is the next phase of 
evolution when it comes to the prosthetics for a below the knee 
amputee, this is what our private industry has implemented into 
the space. Then you reach out to the veteran and say, hey, 
look, phase 20 or whatever is ready to go. We have it for you.
    Dr. Scholten. Thank you for that question. We have some 
capability, but we cannot get down to the granularity that you 
are speaking of about the specific subtype of amputation and 
the potential prosthetic device or evolution of a prosthetic 
device that might be necessary. What we do have is we have our 
FLOW 3 system, which allows us to track on an individual 
veteran level, the process of their prosthetic prescription and 
then all the way through to delivery and checkout process. We 
can monitor that timeline. We do not necessarily have a way to 
kind of retrospectively go back and identify every veteran with 
a specific type of amputation that might benefit from a new 
prosthetic.
    Mr. Luttrell. You would think in 2025 we might have that 
capability with artificial intelligence and machine learning. 
Is this one of those spots that the VA is kind of behind?
    Dr. Saslo. I think when it comes to using the use of AI----
    Mr. Luttrell. I am trying to. I am just----
    Dr. Saslo. No, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell. I am just trying to make this easier on our 
veterans. It seems like we may be behind the eight ball a 
little bit when it comes to advances in technology for the VA 
and helping our veterans out.
    Dr. Saslo. We recognize the use of AI is actually 
propelling us in healthcare to be able to do a better job. I do 
not know that we are there yet.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. Madam Chair, I want to thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Luttrell. The 
Chair now recognizes Representative Rouzer for 5 minutes for 
any questions he may have.
    Mr. Rouzer. Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that very 
much. I have got a witness that will come up in the next panel, 
but my question is for you all now that I have the opportunity. 
Thank you. It seems to me that in so many cases, you have 
veterans that need prosthetics or whatever the issue may be, 
that everybody seems to be treated as a number, you know, on 
somebody's desk. I recognize the inherent difficulties with the 
bureaucracy, et cetera. When these veterans come in and they 
need help and they need care, why do not we have a system where 
you assign somebody to see their case all the way through? You 
have all these check boxes, and they check this box, but then 
they have to wait 8 months to get to this box, and then another 
8 months to get to this box or 4 months or whatever it may be. 
It just seems to me like it could be organized in a much better 
manner, and perhaps it takes more personnel to do it this way. 
After all, they are our veterans. I mean, you have got a 
Congress that is willing to invest in these things. Any comment 
on that or any thought on that? Has that ever been discussed 
where you basically have a caretaker in the sense of guiding 
them through the bureaucracy and make sure that their case does 
not fall through the cracks?
    Dr. Saslo. I think it is really important to recognize that 
the whole concept behind the amputation system of care really 
does rely on an interdisciplinary team. Sometimes that case 
manager for that particular veteran may be a prosthetist, it 
may be the clinician, but we are also looking at how we can 
maximize the care delivery and the continuity that you are 
speaking to using the concepts of care coordination, integrated 
case management. For those patients that are high risk, high 
visibility, what we are trying to do is to identify someone who 
takes that ownership of that veteran's care from start to 
finish. I do not know if, Dr. Pai, if you would like to address 
the additional pieces of ASOC.
    Dr. Pai. Yes, so care coordination is paramount in this 
population. We want to ensure that we are able to provide our 
veterans with that type of service. Right. Sometimes. I know 
our offices work with your office and the network, and we want 
to ensure that we are hearing when there are issues like that 
and there are gaps, because then we want to try and fix them. 
We did hear from, and I do not know if Mr. Craig, if you want 
to talk about the VEO discussion with veterans on post 9-11, 
but that was something that we heard from veterans that would 
allow us to do better in the future.
    Mr. Craig. Yes. Our research that I spoke about earlier 
focused on post 9-11 combat amputees and their experience 
between DoD and VA and private sector. One of the things that 
certainly came out of that research was that they do need 
someone to help them navigate the system so that they do not 
get put in line behind others who may not have as big a need 
just based on when they were signed up for an appointment. A 
number of our research projects for different populations have 
borne that out. That is something veterans desire.
    Dr. Saslo. If I could just add one other thing, and that is 
to your point, I think we do have the opportunity to refine 
that. I think that we, as we have other navigators for 
specialized types of care like our cancer navigators and things 
like that, we have the opportunity to refine that even more.
    Mr. Rouzer. Well, I think there is a number of cases out 
there that you do not even know about because veterans, they 
just give up. You know, they at least ought to be able to get 
their phone call returned when they call. I mean, it is very, 
very frustrating for every Member of Congress and Madam Chair, 
I have probably taken more time than I should have been 
allocated. I will yield back and wait for my opportunity to 
introduce our witness.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Representative 
Rouzer. I now yield myself 5 minutes for any questions I may 
have. Dr. Saslo, I have heard reports of veteran amputees being 
denied adaptive prosthetics. How many veterans have been denied 
adaptive prosthetics in the past year? What justification is VA 
providing for these denials or Dr. Scholten.
    Dr. Scholten. Thank you for that question. I will go ahead 
and take that. We certainly do not, we do not have the number 
of, when you say veterans that have been denied prosthetics, we 
do not have that number. Each veteran is seen and provided an 
individualized plan of care. That care plan is based on the 
veterans desires to engage in the community and also their 
medical comorbidities and other psychosocial factors. Our 
amputation teams are encouraging veterans to participate in 
recreational activities. We are able with our prosthetic 
regulations to provide any device provided it is FDA cleared 
that is in clinically indicated for a veteran. While that 
development of that individualized care plan allows us for 
those items, even though they are recreational type items, to 
be clinically indicated to enhance their community 
participation.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. My staff has been in contact with a 
veteran who has been waiting all year for a prosthetic leg. He 
was told by the Nashville Veterans Affairs Medical Center 
(VAMC) that his delay was due to a backlog of 4,000 prosthetic 
devices. Do you think this is acceptable?
    Dr. Scholten. I do not. I do not.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. What immediate steps is the VA taking to 
address this significant backlog?
    Dr. Scholten. I would be happy to hear get some information 
about that specific veteran case.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. Is the VA leveraging community 
care and third-party vendors to alleviate this backlog? Is 
there anything preventing the VA from outsourcing more 
effectively to ensure timely prosthetic care and access?
    Dr. Pai. I am happy to answer that question. While I 
specifically do not know, or I cannot answer specific to the 
you said Nashville or Tennessee backlog. In general, we do 
leverage community vendors, providers that are prosthetists. We 
work very closely with them. About 2/3 of prosthetic limb 
fabrication is provided out in the community. Our clinical 
teams are the amputation team that Dr. Scholten has described, 
they work in concert with those community providers. Oftentimes 
when a veteran is there getting their prosthetic limb or 
getting their therapy, our clinical team has beamed in with 
telehealth so that they can ensure that the veteran is getting 
the care that they deserve.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. To better understand the scope of this 
issue, I would like a list of every VA medical center that 
currently has a prosthetic backlog. To be specific, I would 
exclude glasses, hearing aids, scleral shells. I am speaking of 
limb prosthetics, arms, legs, hands, et cetera, broken down by 
item type by December 20th.
    Dr. Saslo, you mentioned earlier about the whole health 
approach and the annual assessment. We know that the majority 
of amputees come from vascular disease or peripheral vascular 
disease or peripheral arterial disease, which could be diabetes 
or other types of peripheral arterial disease or PAD. We also 
know that the life expectancy or mortality once one has been 
diagnosed with PAD is quite significant above 50 percent. My 
question is, given that you have a whole health approach and an 
annual assessment, is the VA screening for PAD with a simple 
device such as an ankle brachial index test?
    Dr. Saslo. Yes, thank you for that question. I think one of 
the examples I think is really important is what we are doing 
with regards to our remote temperature monitoring and our 
sensory Podiometric Smart Map that allows us to actually 
identify veterans that are at risk. We also have things called 
the siren socks or the Orbix insoles. We are taking every 
advantage that we can to identify early diagnoses so that we 
can do prevention. One of the things that we have been able to 
be successful with is actually reducing the number of 
ulcerations based upon some of these uses by about 15 percent. 
We have actually seen a reduction of about 37 percent in our 
amputations and admissions to hospitals of about 10 percent. I 
think it is really important that this is just one set of tools 
that we use when it comes to addressing peripheral artery 
disease.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. In the 2019 Rand report, and this is 
coming off of some of the other questions, the US Army noted 
that for all individuals sustaining combat amputations, the 
goal is to return them to the highest level of activity they 
wish to achieve. In contrast, the standard of care at the VA 
focuses on returning amputee patients to a community ambulation 
level. I certainly understand that with the majority of 
amputees in VA care being elderly and from vascular disease. It 
enables them to perform basic activities of daily living, not 
to the highest level of activity they wish to achieve. Should 
not the VA hold itself to the US
    Army standards, particularly for post 9-11 service 
connected amputees to ensure they can function to their highest 
potential? Or do we need to legislate that there is a priority 
given to returning young amputees back to a full life daily 
activities?
    Dr. Saslo. We completely agree that we want to return 
people to the full extent of their activity of daily living, 
which is one of the reasons why we really have been trying to 
push for our veterans to get the equipment that they need to be 
as flexible as they can be. One of the things that I think 
reflects that is the number of adaptive sports programs that we 
have that helps to highlight what the capabilities are for 
those veterans that may be seeking to improve their quality of 
life.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you so much. On behalf of the 
subcommittee, I want to thank all of you for joining us today. 
You are now excused, and we will wait for a moment as the 
second panel comes to the witness table.
    [Recess]
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I would now like to introduce the panel 
to witnesses testifying before us today. We have Mr. Jose 
Ramos, Vice President of Government and Community Relations at 
the Wounded Warrior Project. We have Ms. White, Chief strategy 
and Programs Officer at Amputee Coalition. Then I am going to 
recognize Representative Rouzer to introduce our third witness.
    Mr. Rouzer. Well, thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member 
Brownley, I greatly appreciate you having this hearing today. 
It is a great honor for me to introduce Mr. Matt Brown. He is 
an army veteran that currently resides in my district. It is an 
honor to represent him. Mr. Brown served in the United States 
Army as a member of the 82d Airborne, assigned to Fort Bragg, 
or what is now known as Fort Liberty, North Carolina. After 
active duty, Mr. Brown continued his service in the Maryland 
National Guard before moving to Wilmington and founding 
Energize Group Dental Marketing. A very successful businessman. 
Today, the committee will hear firsthand from him about his 
very, very frustrating experience dealing with the Fayetteville 
VA Medical Center while acquiring his or trying to acquire his 
prosthetic.
    My team and myself have worked very diligently to get his 
case resolved, and it almost took an act of Congress just to 
get him elsewhere to actually receive the prosthetic that he 
needed. He will go into much greater detail, but it really is a 
very disturbing set of facts that he reveals. He is not the 
only one. He is representing probably thousands and thousands 
of other veterans who are facing the same issue. I greatly 
appreciate you allowing him to come and testify. I appreciate 
it much. Mr. Brown, thank you for your service. Thank you for 
your tireless efforts to advocate for not only yourself, but 
all the veterans that need the help and that they deserve. I 
yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. Mr. Ramos, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your opening statement.

                    STATEMENT OF JOSE RAMOS

    Mr. Ramos. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member 
Brownley, and distinguished members of the Health Subcommittee, 
thank you for today's hearing. I want to begin by saying that 
every day, Wounded Warrior Project has the privilege of working 
with our VA partners, and we get to see the amazing work they 
do and the dedicated staff who are committed to caring for our 
Nation's veterans. Our organization has been serving wounded 
warriors across the country for more than 20 years, interacting 
with thousands of warriors daily and helping them lead healthy, 
fulfilling and empowered lives. Since the beginning of the 
global war on terrorism, Wounded Warrior Project has been at 
the bedside of just about every single combat amputee, close to 
1,800 of us. Today, we continue to serve these warriors through 
our adaptive sports and independence programs, just to name a 
few.
    While I serve as Vice President of Government and Community 
Relations. I would like to share my story as an amputee. In 
2004, while serving on my third combat tour as a Navy Corpsman 
attached to a Marine sniper team, I was severely injured when a 
rocket hit our position and instantly severed my left arm. 
Shortly after my recovery, I was fitted with a prosthesis. I 
felt whole again and quickly became dependent on it or some 
other type of adaptive device to live a fulfilling life. I have 
tried three times to transition from DoD to VA for my 
prosthetic needs and three times I have left believing that my 
care is better left to DoD. I have experienced getting wrong 
prosthetics a right hand when I am missing my left hand. VA has 
told me that I am better off going to DoD for my care. VA 
providers not knowing about the latest cutting-edge 
technologies and VA changing its policies to make it harder to 
get adaptive devices. Roughly 20 to 30 percent of post 9-11 
combat amputees decide to stay with DoD for their prosthetic 
needs. While many have successfully transitioned to VA, relying 
mostly on community providers, too many have also experienced 
challenges and at times experiences trying to use VA.
    You would think that someone like myself, with over two 
decades of being an amputee who understands the system better 
than most veterans out there because of the work I do that I 
would not face or that would fare off a bit better. On this 
last attempt, which started in late 2022, I decided to go all 
in. I did so because my prosthetist, who had been my 
prosthetist with DoD for the last 18 years, became a VA 
community provider. I figured should be seamless. From the 
start, I felt like I had to fight what I truly needed, 
something I have never experienced at DoD. I felt like the 
system was designed to work against itself and against my 
needs. For example, I dropped off a broken hand in late 2023 
and it took 6 months to get it back. I finally received a 
functionable hand back in June 2024. While I waited, my other 
three hands broke down and now I am choosing to go back to DoD 
for my replacements.
    I cannot wait months. Not having a working prosthetic is 
not simply impacting physical abilities, but as you have heard 
before, it impacts mental health too. I firmly believe that VA 
is committed to serving our Nation's veterans and I see that 
every single day. For VA to truly be the best in the country, 
there are areas where improvements are urgently needed, 
especially when it comes to the care of our most severely 
disabled warriors. I believe that VA should be the world's 
premier place for amputee care and prosthetics. However, my 
personal experience tells me that there is still room for 
improvement. As we highlighted in our written testimony, VA can 
take at least four steps to become best in class for amputee 
care.
    First, recognize the unique needs of amputees rather than 
grouping amputees and prosthetic limbs with other prosthetic 
users such as those who use hearing aids, wheelchairs or even 
hip implants. Just different. Second, increase the hiring of 
prosthetists and expand in house fabrication capabilities 
within the VA to ensure that veterans get timely expert care. 
Third, promote and support holistic, healthy lifestyles for 
amputees by providing necessary adaptive equipment to help 
veterans stay active without forcing them into rehabilitation 
programs that may not be needed. Finally, provide increased 
funding to support and expand innovative programs like the 
Mobile Prosthetic Orthotic Care Program to reach a larger 
population of amputee veterans.
    The VA has struggled to recognize that there is a large 
number of younger, more active amputees demanding more of their 
prosthetics. Veterans deserve the best care and with the right 
investment and commitment, the VA can and should become the 
global leader in prosthetic care for amputees. I thank you for 
inviting me to testify today and look forward to answering your 
questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jose Ramos Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Ramos. Mr. Brown, you are 
now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your opening statement.

                    STATEMENT OF MATT BROWN

    Mr. Brown. Thank you, Chairwoman Miller and Ranking Member 
Brownley for inviting me to testify about my long and 
frustrating experience with VA prosthetic services at 
Fayetteville, North Carolina VA Medical Center. I am US Army 
veteran.
    Mr. Luttrell. Hey buddy, you are 82d Airborne. You are the 
toughest son of a bitch in this room. All right. Hey, we are 
here for you, man. Suck it up. All right. You are amongst 
friends. Let us hear it.
    Mr. Brown. I am a US Army veteran who enlisted in 2009 and 
sustained traumatic brain injuries and spinal fractures from an 
airborne training operation at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I 
left active-duty service in 2011, transitioning to the Maryland 
National Guard. I was honorably discharged in 2015. I have 
always been very active. Running, doing martial arts, scuba 
diving. I was diagnosed with bone cancer in May 2021. My life 
has forever changed. When I was still a young man, a family and 
thriving business. Much of my self-worth was derived from my 
physical abilities. To the extent of the cancer, my concerns 
concerning my about having my surgery at the VA center. I was 
given a community care referral to Duke Medical center in 
Raleigh, North Carolina. In summer of 2021, my left leg was 
amputated above the knee in August 2021 at Duke. After the 
surgery, I was in a wheelchair for 7 months. My first VA 
treatment appointment was on November 18th, 2021. VA claims 
they gave me a martial arts prosthetic within 28 days and a 
state-of-the-art leg system within 53 days of this appointment. 
Neither of those worked.
    I learned later that remaining in a wheelchair post 
amputation for as long as I did can inhibit physical and mental 
recovery. I had no idea it would take the VA 2 years to get me 
a proper prosthetic. I would have to advocate aggressively for 
myself at every turn, eventually seeking help from 
Representative Rouzer, Senator Tillis, the Independence Fund 
and this committee staff. My experience with the VA over those 
2 years were bewildering and demoralizing. The staff at the 
local VA hospital consistently failed to communicate well about 
my care, follow through on my care coordination and expedite 
requests for prosthetics. All of the community vendors who 
responded to the VA request to produce the proper fitting leg 
socket for me did their best. Some told me the acquisition 
process at VA was slow and sometimes they would not get paid 
promptly by the VA. This would only add to the stress of not 
being able to resume my normal activities outside of a 
wheelchair.
    In October 2022, I heard about a special socket the VA had 
provided to another amputee, the Quattro Variable Volume 
Socket. Given my level of physical activity and the changes in 
blood flow residual limb, I thought this system would be my 
answer. I asked the VA to obtain one, but they never followed 
through to acquire it. The request sat idle and eventually 
expired. I had to start all over again. I continued to work 
with a local vendor to obtain a properly fitting socket. During 
those months I was using a prosthetic ankle. I visited the 
vendor for routine maintenance in September 2022. The vendor 
told me they had to repossess it because the VA had not paid 
them. I left the vendor without the ankle and had to 
temporarily use an older ankle that was not flexible for the 
next year. VA continued to pursue the same types of sockets. I 
continued to tell the VA that I needed a different type of 
socket, basically the Quattro.
    This Groundhog Day process was extremely frustrating for me 
and my family. I was stuck in a wheelchair for 6 months and 
missed out on many personal activities. In October 2023 I was 
so frustrated with VA prosthetics after a socket they acquired 
from a vendor broke while I was overseas, I contacted Congress 
Rouzer staff for help. They tried to get VA moving, but 
Congress was still slow. After 2 months of congressional 
inquiry, I reached out to the Independence Fund's case work 
team in Charlotte. Their team and Congressman Rouzer's staff 
joined up and pressed VA for answers. In December 2023, VA 
finally agreed to shift my prosthetics care to Richmond, 
Virginia. I was assigned to a VA prosthetics doctor there. He 
assessed my needs for a different type of socket so I could get 
out of the wheelchair and travel more easily for my business 
and participate in sporting activities with my wife and 
friends.
    The Richmond VA doctor worked with me and local vendor to 
give me an interim that will that fit well. It was not until 
May 2024 that VA finally purchased and delivered the Quattro 
socket I am using here today. I have lost 34 pounds since 
getting the socket. I am a new person today. This only happened 
because of continued pressure on VA from Congress and the 
Independence Fund. Looking forward, it is clear to me that VA 
needs a deep dive into what they address and process everyday 
amputees needs for prosthetics, especially ones like mine, and 
deliver them timely. The entire experience can be overly 
bureaucratic, sluggish, often impersonal and sometimes 
uncaring.
    I know VA has testified that the cost of these recreational 
limbs is a concern, but very honestly, these experts do not 
realize what it is like to be confined to a wheelchair, unable 
to swim or run, carry your child and then ignore unseen costs, 
long delays like mine, like mental health anguish I went 
through and the related cost VA paid for additional mental 
health visits I needed over these 2 years. The VA has also 
testified that all these services are already being provided. 
Yet I and other amputees are proof that commitment is not being 
honored and followed by local VA staffs and supported by a 
responsive acquisition system.
    There are lifelong future cost savings for VA when veterans 
can obtain the prosthetics they need to live active, fulfilling 
lives. We are not looking for special treatment. We just want 
to live our lives as independently as possible. I appreciate 
the time you have given me today and look forward to your 
questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Matt Brown Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Brown, for making the trip 
here to Washington, DC to share your story and your testimony 
with us. Ms. White, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your opening statement.

                   STATEMENT OF ASHLIE WHITE

    Ms. White. Good afternoon, Chair Miller-Meeks, Ranking 
Member Brownley, and the distinguished members of the VA Health 
Subcommittee. My name is Ashley White. I am the Chief Strategy 
and Programs Officer for the Amputee Coalition, and I am 
testifying today in that capacity. Thank you so much for the 
hearing and this opportunity. The Amputee Coalition is a 501c3 
organization established in 1986 to provide support, education 
and advocacy for the over 5.6 million individuals living with 
limb loss or limb difference in the United States. The Amputee 
Coalition provides information, referral, healthcare, 
navigation services, peer support and community engagement 
programming through its operation of the National Limb Loss 
Resource Center, which is funded through a cooperative 
agreement under the Administration for Community Living in the 
Department of Health and Human Services.
    At the heart of the Amputee Coalition's mission is our peer 
support programs. The organization was founded from a peer 
support program. Our goal is to make sure that no one goes 
through this journey alone. We believe that support comes in 
many forms and can make an incredible difference in recovery 
and rehabilitation. Through an annual contract with the 
Department of Veteran Affairs, our organization provides 
technical support, print and digital resources, certified peer 
visitor training as well as train the trainer training and 
helps facilitate the amputation systems of care Peer Support 
Program. No one is in a better position to understand the 
experience of living a life with an amputation or supporting a 
person with limb loss than someone who has traveled that 
journey. A well-trained peer can offer encouragement and 
information. An individual navigating the start of their own 
journey can better understand, absorb, process and accept. A 
peer reviewed study published in 2022 noted that peer support 
interventions showed promise in addressing suicide risk.
    As noted in a recently published GAO report, over 93,000 
veterans living with limb loss receive care through the VHA 
annually. Beyond combat related injury from serving in the 
Armed Forces. Limb loss can also be the result of complications 
due to diabetes and peripheral arterial disease. The VA reports 
that most of its patients living with limb loss treated by 
amputation systems of care suffer from one of these conditions. 
The previously mentioned GAO report also highlighted as Chair 
Miller-Meeks mentioned and as others have testified today that 
the amputation specialty clinics through which many of the 
veterans receive limb loss receive care related to their limb 
loss are staffed by an interdisciplinary team. This 
interdisciplinary team model is the gold standard and one that 
we at the Amputee Coalition wish all Americans facing limb loss 
could have access to throughout their continuum of care.
    Recognizing that some veterans living with limb loss may 
experience mobility challenges, virtual amputation clinics also 
exist to access care from a VA medical center. This opportunity 
provides veterans living with limb loss the ability to connect 
to a provider from various locations including at home, a VA 
clinic or a community prosthetic partner. This is also not the 
standard of care offered to most available to most civilians 
and we commend the efforts to the VA to make care more 
accessible for those living with limb loss. Acknowledging the 
successes of the VA care model, it is also important to note 
some of the challenges and potential areas for improvement.
    Healthcare access challenges faced by individuals 
experiencing limb loss in rural America continue to be a 
concern for the Amputee Coalition. The GAO report confirmed 
that 28 percent of Medicare beneficiaries who receive received 
amputations live in rural areas, but only 20 percent of all 
Medicare beneficiaries live in rural America. While the report 
did not provide this data for the veteran population, one 
cannot ignore that rurality, it plays a role in access to 
coordinated health care. While the VA employs many certified 
prosthetist orthotists for its various clinics, much of the 
prosthetic care received by veterans is still provided by 
community Orthotics and Prosthetics (O&P) provider. The reports 
we receive highlight from veterans highlight differences in 
communication processes between clinics within the VA and those 
in a community setting that vary from facility to facility.
    Creating more streamlined, coordinated channels of 
communication between community providers and the VA clinical 
teams is vital to ensure that care remains coordinated when an 
individual is receiving prosthetic services outside of the VA 
setting. Our partners and provider groups, also representing 
the orthotic and prosthetic field have also expressed their 
concerns about the Orthotics and Prosthetics workforce 
pipeline, and it is my understanding that the National 
Commission on Orthotic and Prosthetic Education is in the 
process of initiating a study to look specifically at those 
workforce shortages.
    While the VA remains an attractive employer for CPOs, the 
Amputee Coalition is concerned with the recent reports of 
attrition that are coming out of these Masters of Orthotic and 
Prosthetic programs, especially since There are only 13 
programs at graduating Master's level O&P providers.
    In closing, the Amputee Coalition expresses its gratitude 
for the opportunity to be a trusted partner in serving our 
Nation's veterans every single day. We value our partnership 
with the VA and are committed to supporting efforts to improve 
prosthetic care and the mental health and well-being of those 
veterans who have or are at risk of experiencing amputations.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Ashlie White Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ms. White. We will now proceed 
to questioning. As is my protocol, I will defer my questions 
until the end. I will now recognize Ranking Member Brownley for 
5 minutes for any questions she may have.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you Madam Chair, and thank you all for 
being here. Mr. Brown, thank you for your service to our 
country and the courage to come up here and share your story. I 
want to understand the period of time that you kind of went 
through this horrible experience. It sounds like. It sounded to 
me like it was a 2-year period from the time that you wanted to 
get out of that wheelchair and get a prosthetic to the time 
that you finally got one that worked for you. Is that roughly 
right?
    Mr. Brown. It is pretty accurate. It was about 2 years. 
There was--it was like, there is a loyalty more to the 
bureaucracy than the end user, the patient. I was like, I am 
the person using it and it is like you get up in the middle of 
the night to go to the bathroom and your leg falls off by the 
bathroom and you fall and you say this thing keeps falling off 
in public, it is falling off. They replicate into the same 
socket all over again. I knew what my problem was. I did my own 
research and I said, this is the solution. I knew another 
veteran who is a friend of mine in Colorado who got that socket 
and I was not able to. The whole time I was asking for a 
running blade so I could start running. I started exercising 
again. I am a really active guy. There was a lot of things and 
it took about 2 years total from beginning to end to get it. I 
just got it this past June, so I am still----
    Ms. Brownley. The running blades, did you get those?
    Mr. Brown. I have the running blade. One issue with the 
running blade is you have to do a running clinic to learn how 
to run. I still, since I have got my running blade, have not 
been able to get to a running clinic. They were like, there are 
two we could possibly send you to. One is in Washington State 
and one was over here. There was not really a way to facilitate 
training and teach me how to run. Here is this item, but there 
is no support on how to use the item. I am kind of using my 
personal trainer at home to try to figure it out on my own, 
which I do not know if it is the safest, but I want to run with 
my wife, so.
    Ms. Brownley. How many prosthetics were you given before 
you got the one? I cannot remember what the name of it, but it 
is what, the Quattro?
    Mr. Brown. Yes.
    Ms. Brownley. Yes. How many? How many tries?
    Mr. Brown. The socket. I do not have the number in front of 
me, so I do not want to be inaccurate. If I had to guess off 
top of my head, we probably had 10 to 14 tries of the socket, 
but it was all different variations of the same attempt.
    Ms. Brownley. And, but, so, but you had, I mean, sort of at 
least 6 months into it, you had done your research and you knew 
what was going to be best for you. It took and you still had to 
go through a lot of----
    Mr. Brown. There was a lot of not understanding my needs. 
Like no one, like they talked a lot about team care when they 
are up here. The team, I am not sure, I have never saw the 
team. I saw a person that was a prosthetist who was 70 years 
old who was out of touch and did not care. He just, he did 
care, but he just did not want to read through it. The one 
problem I had was I am a Brazilian Jui-Jitsu black belt. I 
train a lot, I wrestle and when I would come off the mats my 
leg would not fit anymore. I said I need something I can 
adjust. A friend of mine that is a black belt who is also a 
veteran in another State got this from you. I would like this. 
It was, what we actually found out was the purchase order 
actually had been cut to the vendor and it sat there for a year 
and no one told us. Then I called the vendor like, can you help 
me with this? Like we had your purchase order for a year and 
now it expired. At some point it got authorized and we had not 
even known.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. Again, thank you Mr. Rouzer for, 
you know, getting involved and making it happen. Sadly, I 
apologize for the VA and their inability to satisfy you as a 
veteran and as an important patient in their care. So. Again, 
thank you. Thank you very much for being here. Ms. White. I 
wanted to ask you. I absolutely am a firm believer in peer 
support programming and peer support groups and how effective 
they can be for veterans with a variety of different kinds of 
issues. I am just wondering. I tend to spend a lot of time on 
women because I do not feel like women veterans get the 
attention that they deserve. I am wondering how many women have 
you served and do you believe that the women that you have 
served that a woman to woman peer group is the best option 
moving forward?
    Ms. White. Thank you for the question, Ranking Member 
Brownley. With respect to the number of women served by the 
Amputee Coalition, our support programs operate through the 
amputation systems of care. About 14 percent of the individuals 
who come directly to the Amputees Coalition's information 
referral centered. Those are direct calls to us, about 14 
percent of those are veterans, and only about 2 percent of 
those are women. A very small----
    Ms. Brownley. Veterans and non-veterans.
    Ms. White. Veterans and--sorry. Yes, yes.
    Ms. Brownley. I got it.
    Ms. White. If you look at that, those numbers that are 
directly served by our organization, not through the 
partnership that we have with the amputation systems of care, 
It is a small number, but I do believe that many women are 
going to community support groups. There are nearly 300 
community support groups that we help facilitate. They are 
affiliated with us, but they are actually operated by 
individuals who live in those communities. I believe that many 
women are going to those community groups and they are finding 
support, whether that is through a civilian who has a similar 
level of limb loss or a person who has a very similar 
experience to them and may also be a veteran. I think they have 
access to both support groups in their communities as well as 
through the VA system.
    Ms. Brownley. Very good. Thank you for that and thank you 
for what you do, because it sounds like what you do is really 
important to servicing our veterans and having success with 
limb loss and all the wraparound issues and support that they 
need to have the highest quality of life that they certainly 
deserve. Thank you for that. I am over my time. I apologize and 
I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you for yielding. Thank you, 
Ranking Member Brownley. The chair now recognizes 
Representative Luttrell for 5 minutes for any questions he may 
have.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, ma'am. Mr. Brown, Mr. Ramos. We 
try to unpack the suitcase on this. We understand that. We 
understand the varying levels of difficulty trying to get the 
quad for your leg and then what is your arm. Obviously, here is 
the tricky part. Who did you call? Who said no? Where did it go 
from there? I would like to have names so I can personally 
address this issue at the granular level. You know, veterans 
are veterans, we will come--we have this just. We just love to 
come. Just to say things are going bad. I got it. You know, but 
we need to know exactly where we need to touch this. I am going 
to ask both of you, when you talk to your--at what level, who 
you are speaking with and where are they going and where is it 
dying? Where are the barricades and the barriers existing so we 
can get in there and try to clean it up. Mr. Ramos, you can go 
first, and I will go to Mr. Brown.
    Mr. Ramos. I think you asked a really good question. I 
think the challenge is there is not a single person that you 
can really reach out to. To be very honest with you, I think 
the system collectively, the way VA defines prosthetics and 
amputees generally sits under PSAS or the Office of Prosthetic 
and Sensory Aid Services. That truly is more of an acquisition 
logistics and procurement process. It is funded in that way. 
The prosthetists and prosthetic limbs all reside underneath 
that. One of our recommendations here is we got to kind of 
separate and stop talking about prosthetics as the same as 
hearing aids and eyeglasses. I think that is the challenge, I 
think for the both of us reaching out to our providers, our 
community providers. I mean, similar story for me was a lapse 
of time as it relates to the purchase order being submitted and 
not being sent to the provider. Not knowing.
    Mr. Luttrell. It seems like a series of communication 
breakdowns because you are--I do not mind, I have got a brain 
fart here. Your system was sitting there waiting to get. The 
paperwork is waiting to go and it just, it died on the vine, 
correct?
    Mr. Brown. Yes. The communication breakdowns I could not 
have asked for. I could not hope for a better question from 
you, Representative Luttrell. My local VA, this is going to 
sound unbelievable to you that the phones have been broken for 
several years. I cannot call in and make an appointment. I 
heard a lot of talk today about satisfaction scores from the VA 
officials. You can make studies and package data up and paint a 
picture. There is a Key Performance Indicator (KPI) or standard 
that all of us in this room, civilian, veteran, any industry 
value, it is universal and it is a Google rating. The Google 
rating for my facility is like 3.5 stars. If you read those 
reviews, for years we have been complaining with no feedback 
loop to help, that we cannot call in and make an appointment. 
We have to drive in to make an appointment. I challenge all of 
you, take your phones out, Google Wilmington, North Carolina VA 
Hospital and read the reviews. You can go back four or 5 years 
and everyone is on there complaining, we cannot call in. To 
this day, I still cannot call in to make an appointment. I have 
to drive in.
    A fundamental patient care is communication. If we take 
this KPI like we can package up all these KPIs, right? That is 
the standard of excellence for the world. I just challenge you 
in your districts, go look at the Google ratings and read the 
reviews. They are generally not good because of this. Then on 
the level of the granular level, my prosthetists, he verbally 
told me there needs to be five of me here, and there is one, 
and I am 68 years old, and his name was Thomas Ray, generally a 
nice guy that cares, but he was not equipped to handle this. 
His boss, Damon DeLoache, was just out of touch with the whole 
process. On the fundamental level, when I was waiting for my 
prosthetic, I could not call in to get a status update.
    Every Thursday, the prosthetist visited my local VA center. 
I would take my wheelchair, throw it in my truck. I would only 
been an amputee a few months now. I would drive to the VA 
center, sit in my wheelchair, wait in the lobby to hope that he 
would walk past me to ask for an update. If we cannot handle 
the fundamentals of patient communication, like calling in. I 
had--I am kind of a little bit of aggressive guy with some 
stuff. I figured out who the director of that building was. I 
found her picture and I waited around for her. Her name was 
Debbie. I addressed her. I said, you are the director, right? 
She said, yes. I said, the phones are broken. She goes, oh, I 
quote, I know they have been broken. They have been broken for 
years. I just do not know who to call.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay, next steps for me is going to find out, 
because there are multiple sites, so I need to find out who the 
prosthetist is calling at the next level and where that goes to 
get everything activated and how it comes back down inside the 
organization to clean up this problem set. The gentleman that I 
am going to discuss that with are sitting directly behind you, 
which I think you should have gone first in this hearing. That 
would have given us extra ammunition, if you will, to have 
discussions with the VA staff, or VA leadership. Thank you and 
Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Representative 
Luttrell. The Chair now recognizes Representative Rouzer for 5 
for any questions you may have.
    Mr. Rouzer. Thank you. I would be happy to yield some more 
time to my colleague, Mr. Luttrell, if he wants to follow up. 
You had a good line.
    Mr. Luttrell. I could sit here all day. When--I would like 
to dig in with you, Mr. Brown, because when your case was moved 
out of the Wilmington VA, where does that land? At what site?
    Mr. Brown. We end up at Richmond, Virginia.
    Mr. Luttrell. Wilmington goes to Richmond.
    Mr. Brown. Yes, so we moved out of the Fayetteville or 
Veterans Integrated Service Network (VISN) 6 to Richmond. The 
doctor who received me was Dr. Joseph Webster, who is an 
awesome clinician. He was an angel for me. He got me my leg 
back. He was compassionate. He was awesome. It was the opposite 
experience of what I experienced in Fayetteville. We had to 
move my care all the way to Richmond, Virginia to get me past 
this 2-year ordeal.
    Mr. Luttrell. Can you explain to me at kind of a deeper 
level why? The people behind you are listening and I need them 
to hear this, which I am sure they have heard it multiple 
times, but they are going to hear it right here in front of 
Congress. I want to know why and where the communication, not 
most of the communication, but the movement of taking care of 
our amputees at Wilmington seems to be lost. Then you have to 
go to North Carolina. You have to go to Richmond.
    Mr. Brown. Yes, go to Richmond. Just to give you an idea, 
like the level of distrust that develops so rapidly, I actually 
had to start like recording my doctor's appointments to 
document things because of me requesting things verbally and 
not having them. What happened is I would request something. I 
would wait a long period of time for an appointment with a 
prosthetist. I would request something and then he would say, 
oh yes, we are working.
    Mr. Luttrell. Do you have the paperwork that you received 
from the VA that says why this got canceled with a name on the 
bottom of it?
    Mr. Brown. No.
    Mr. Luttrell. That is tragic.
    Mr. Brown. Yes, I do not. I never really could. Like, so I 
was asking the prosthetist, like, when am I going to get this 
Quattro socket? Every time it was a kick the can down the road. 
It was a very vague answer. He was the only prosthetist for our 
region. He swore there needed to be five, there was only one. 
He went out with COVID for 3 months and he finally called me 
back 1 day and he said this to me. I work in healthcare, in 
dental, so I am very familiar with Health Insurance Portability 
and Accountability Act (HIPPA) laws. My company handles a lot 
of personal information and we are really compliant with that. 
He said on the phone to me, he said, Matt, I am home with COVID 
and my dining room table is covered with patient paperwork that 
I am trying to get through while I am out sick with COVID. My 
first reply was, that is a HIPAA violation. My information 
cannot be in your home. It is like there is a deliberateness 
you do things with when you want to achieve. What I will tell 
you is in VISN 6 Fayetteville system, that deliberateness does 
not exist for excellence. Just look at the Google reviews. We 
give the reviews. It is all under four stars.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Ramos, your turn.
    Mr. Ramos. I think this frankly highlights the necessity to 
really evaluate what DoD does versus what VA does. I will say, 
and I will tell you why I say that is, unfortunately, my 
brother in arms here does not have the luxury to be next to an 
Military Treatment Facility (MTF) center of excellence to just 
walk in and get the assistance they need. Right? We should 
strive collectively to ensure that the VA is the center of 
excellence. I am not saying we need to build a center of 
excellence in every single district, because that is not 
possible. There is not many amputees, but, dang it, every 
single active duty or post 9-11 combat veteran will tell you 
exactly if they want to go to the best care for amputee care. 
They are going to fly to Brooke Army Medical Center (BAMC), 
they are going to fly to Walter Reed, or they are going to fly 
to the Center for Intrepid. Right? By the way, they are going 
to pay out of their own pocket to get there. Nonetheless, and 
VA should have the same, exact same thing, and we just do not.
    Mr. Luttrell. When the question is asked why the VA does 
not have the same model as the DoD, what is the response you 
get from those that you are engaging with?
    Mr. Ramos. We talk a lot about the ASOC system or kind of 
the amputee system of care. I will tell you, until I started 
working with Wounded Warrior Project, I did not know it 
existed. We have seven sites, and I think collectively the 
culture is we have the systems in place. I am not saying that 
it is not in place for maybe older geriatric patient 
population. It is just not responsive to a young active 
population who is beating the crap out of their prosthesis and 
trying to live a fulfilling life. When I turn 70, I am still 
going to continue to do what I do. I have four hands because I 
break them fast. I break them fast because I am an active 
individual and their system is not responsive to meet my needs, 
to meet his needs. It is just not designed that way.
    Mr. Luttrell. How long can you stay with the DoD? Do you 
ever have to transition away from DoD to the VA?
    Mr. Ramos. You do not. I do fear part of why I have come to 
the VA system to give it a try is I fear that at some point, 
DoD says, hey, you know what? You are a veteran. Go to the VA. 
The answer is DoD looks at us also kind of a way to ensure that 
they continue to maintain their expertise in dealing with 
combat patients based on what is happening across the globe. We 
have not been asked to no longer come back, but that is always 
been a concern. Right now, as far as I know, now it is a 
different situation for him because he is not a service 
connected, combat disabled veteran that went through the 
system, but I do not. That is why I am going back to DoD, to be 
very honest.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. I yield my time.
    Mr. Rouzer. Yes, my time has expired.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you. Thank you, Representative 
Luttrell and Representative Rouzer. The Chairwoman now yells 
herself 5 minutes for questions she may have. Mr. Ramos, and I 
think you brought this up, but how did your experience with the 
DoD prosthetic care compare to care provided directly by the 
VA? Were there noticeable differences in quality or timelines?
    Mr. Ramos. I think what would be helpful is to kind of 
maybe give you a comparison of the two different experiences in 
systems generally. Right. At DoD, the prosthetist and the 
clinic or the amputee care clinic are jointly co located. 
Right. When I go talk to my primary provider, my prosthetist is 
there or easily accessible and we can talk about here are my 
challenges. Okay, got it. Here is a prescription. Then go and 
execute. Now if I need something that is modified on the spot, 
they can build out. If it is something that needs to get sent 
out to either rebuilt or new, they do that right there. Then I 
get it in a matter of weeks. Right.
    With VA, for example, the VAMC here in DC, they are not co 
located as a matter of fact, two different, complete different 
spaces. I first have to make a visit with my primary clinician 
and then get that prescription approval that then gets sent to 
my community provider. Now I have to make an appointment with 
my community provider, drive down to Bethesda, and actually go 
through the process of kind of working with the prosthesis. 
That individual then now has to wait for the purchase order to 
come in to them so that they can go and execute on the actual 
prosthetic delivery or fixing. Then from there I have to either 
go back to the community provider and make sure that it is the 
right prosthetic in this case, because I have experienced 
having the wrong one been delivered to me now. Then eventually 
that is what the process looks like.
    It is really a almost instant fixing of addressing need, 
approval of an execution versus coordinating different 
meetings, different appointments, getting approvals, waiting, 
and then eventually getting your prosthesis.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Yes. That difference in the care that you 
receive and you perceive may in fact be a difference in mission 
between the DoD and the VA. Certainly we have heard a lot about 
the populations and the type of population that we are dealing 
with as a veteran population, as an active duty DoD population. 
To me, what I am hearing loud and clear is that there needs to 
be a segregation of prosthetic limbs from other sensory type of 
prosthetic devices. That is, when you were here, I was 
adjusting my prosthesis, my glasses, but glasses, hearing aids, 
scleral shells, facial implants, even wheelchairs. These types 
of devices need to be segregated and have a amputee prosthetic 
office that directly deals with that within the VA, and then 
second, perhaps also segregating the populations. No one wants 
to say that. It is not politically correct to say that. 
Although I am almost 70 years old, I would say I am an active 
70 year old.
    Nonetheless, a person's needs who is retired and not 
working is certainly different than a person who is working and 
raising a family and trying to support a family. Mr. Brown, did 
anyone from the--so you were diagnosed with the cancer, you are 
at the VA, you know you are going to have treatment for your 
cancer, you are going to have an amputation. Did anyone from 
the VA's Amputation System of Care team engage you before your 
amputation or how long after your amputation?
    Mr. Brown. Earlier there was a conversation about proactive 
versus reactive. Me and wife are really proactive people. We 
knew this was coming. We knew for about 3 months my leg was 
being amputated and I proactively contacted the VA. No one 
reached out to me. The extent of the team experience they speak 
of was I went there, sat down with that prosthetist and what I 
was told was it was a very short conversation. I was in this 
chair maybe 5 minutes. The VA is world class when it comes to 
prosthetics, was the claim and that whatever you need, you are 
going to get, there are no problems. It was a great 
expectation. Me and wife felt good about our decision.
    Then the amputation happened and then it was kind of like 
the best analogy I can use is it kind of felt like a used car 
salesman. I was told this awesome, rosy story. Then the moment 
it was time to facilitate care, I had to wheel myself to the VA 
on Thursdays to hope to bump into this individual to get an 
update. I was never given a timeline or expectation. There was 
no team experience.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Yes, I can certainly understand that. 
Waiting for the stump to heal. There are a ton of questions I 
would have about all of this process. One of the things I also 
heard, and let me say that having been in the military, both 
enlisted as a nurse, as a doctor, worked at the VA, relatives 
at the VA, family members, I can assure you that the people 
behind you have not heard of your story because that is how 
bureaucracies work. What happened at the Wilmington VA probably 
stayed at the Wilmington VA instead of that being ratcheted up 
the chain of command to where the people who can actually 
implement policy changes and make those individuals work to the 
best of their ability do not get that information.
    We also heard from Dr. Saslo and Dr. Scholten that the 
scores that were received and feedback reports had very high 
scores, 88 percent clinical prosthetic patients at the 
Fayetteville VA Medical Center are happy. As I listen to that, 
if someone did not take the proactive approach to go and study 
what socket, what terminal, what prosthetics, if you are a 
woman, do you have a prosthetic that is going to adapt to the 
different type of shoe that you are wearing, to the different 
type of activities that you are engaged in, whether you are 
working or non-working, whether you are lifting children? If 
they do not take the proactive approach to do that, how do they 
know what is available? If in fact they are getting state-of-
the-art care? How can you determine whether or not you are 
satisfied? All you can determine is you are satisfied with what 
you were given, but not what the range of options are available 
to you, or even if there is adaptive prosthetic devices.
    Based on your experience, Mr. Brown, and conversations you 
have had with other veteran amputees, do you believe that 
statistic accurately reflects the quality of care and trust at 
Fayetteville or the experience other veterans may have?
    Mr. Brown. No, I do not think it is anywhere near accurate. 
I sit in the waiting rooms with the other amputees in the 
prosthetics department and you know, the amputee community, the 
veteran community is small. The amputee veteran community is 
smaller, especially in our region. It is real easy for us to 
find all each other. I started like a little WhatsApp chat with 
all my fellow amputee friends and asked them, how long are you 
waiting for this? How long are you waiting for that? The 
experience is pretty uniform. When you lump in major limb 
amputation with eyeglasses and compression socks, it is easy to 
get a positive review of questions you loaded up to get the 
metric you want as a survey you sent. When you are asking 
someone about compression socks versus a complex item like a 
leg that replaces your--creates your ability to be mobile.
    When I heard the in Fiscal Year 2024, the satisfaction rate 
was like 95 percent. That is not accurate. Going back to the 
Google rating, like I mentioned earlier, that is the world's 
standard for excellence. I personally started looking at the 
facilities in my area and they all were well below four stars, 
most near three stars. I think that is a KPI that no one is 
looking at, that the whole world embraces as the standard for 
excellence. I think that needs to be looked at because these 
facilities do not have good ratings. That is a clean feedback 
loop from us to you. No one in leadership, I think, has ever 
looked at that. No one thinks anyone is looking at it.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Well, thank you very much. Ranking Member 
Brownley. Do you have any closing remarks?
    Ms. Brownley. I just want to say I really appreciate having 
this hearing. I have been on the committee, I think, for 12 
years, and I am not sure that we have had a hearing on this. 
Thank you for bringing it forward. I have learned a lot, and I 
think I have got a pretty clear idea. I think that the 
Chairwoman's just sort of laid it out, too, in terms of where 
we need to go on this, in terms of trying to make it better. 
The VA should, when it comes to prosthetics, they should be the 
very best. They should be on the cutting edge. They should be 
world class, and, you know, they should be leading the pack 
across the country. I think there is probably the VA is doing a 
good job across the board in certain places, but, you know, not 
everywhere. I think someone talked about, you know, rural 
America, too, where it is even a greater challenge.
    I just think we need to kind of really work on this to make 
sure that we are providing, you know, our veterans who have 
served our country. You know, losing a limb is--I cannot 
imagine. I honestly, I cannot imagine what that would be like. 
I do understand how impactful it can be if things are not 
working for you, both physically and mentally. Anyway, I think 
we have got some work cut out for us, and I appreciate you 
having the hearing, Madam Chair. I yield.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Well, thank you very much, Ranking Member 
Brownley. I thank all of our members who are here today. I 
especially thank the VA. I know that some of these comments 
were probably not something that you particularly wanted to 
hear because it sounds like you are truly trying to give state-
of-the-art care to all of our veterans, especially our veterans 
with amputee and limb loss. I would like to thank our witnesses 
on Panel Two Mr. Ramos, Ms. White and Mr. Brown for being here 
and for your courageous testimony. Not easy to come all this 
way and bring that forward and that we do need to do a better 
job of holistically looking at our veterans and our veteran 
population.
    I would like to thank everybody for their participation in 
today's hearing and for the great discussions we have had on 
this important topic. I would agree that we have a roadmap for 
where we need to go and how we need to assist the VA in order 
to treat you better to the highest level of your functionality 
and activities of daily living. As I have stated before, 
ensuring that our Nation's veterans receive the highest quality 
of care is my top priority as Chairwoman of the subcommittee 
and holding the VA accountable and providing proper oversight 
is the job that we on this committee have been tasked with.
    I am committed to working with my colleagues and the 
department to ensure that high quality care is delivered to our 
veterans. I look forward to continuing these efforts to working 
with all stakeholders involved.
    The complete written statements of today's witnesses will 
be entered into the hearing record. I ask unanimous consent 
that all members have five legislative days to revise and 
extend their remarks and include extraneous material. Hearing 
no objection. So ordered. I thank the members and the witnesses 
for their attendance and their participation today. This 
hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 4:16 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


               Prepared Statement of M. Christopher Saslo

    Good afternoon, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, 
and members of the Subcommittee on Health. Thank you for the 
opportunity to testify before you today to discuss VA's Amputation 
System of Care (ASoC). Joining me today is Dr. Joel Scholten, Executive 
Director, Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation (PM&R); Dr. Ajit Pai, 
Executive Director, Office of Rehabilitation and Prosthetic Services; 
and J. Drew Craig, Design Chief, Enterprise Measurement and Design 
Directorate, Veterans Experience Office (VEO).
    At VA, we are dedicated to addressing the diverse needs of Veterans 
with amputations throughout their lifetime and ensuring access to 
rehabilitation services, specialty benefits and services, and advanced 
prosthetics. Our comprehensive approach focuses on providing tailored 
care, cutting-edge technologies, and ongoing support to improve the 
quality of life for Veteran amputees.

Overview

    VA's ASoC offers a comprehensive, integrated care model for 
Veterans with amputations or those who are at risk of amputation. This 
holistic approach emphasizes Veteran-centric care through a 
multidisciplinary team, including PM&R physicians, physical and 
occupational therapists, prosthetists, mental health clinicians, and 
various other specialists. ASoC's core philosophy revolves around 
providing lifelong care through coordination, collaboration, and 
education.
    Amputations present unique challenges and complexities for Veterans 
requiring specialized services and support throughout their lifespan, 
including pre-amputation care, post-surgery, rehabilitation, prosthetic 
prescription and training, and lifelong follow-up. The Veteran's care 
journey begins with pre-prosthetic care and preparation. Whenever 
possible, the ASoC team engages with Veterans and their families before 
surgery. This proactive approach allows for crucial education on post-
operative care, home preparation, equipment needs, and future 
prosthetic plans. It ensures a smoother transition for Veterans 
returning home and assists families in making necessary preparations.
    Once the Veteran's residual limb has healed, the prosthetic fitting 
and training phase begins. The prescription process considers the 
Veteran's goals, prior functional level, and medical history. Fitting 
may occur within the VA system or with community prosthetists with the 
VA team collaborating to ensure the prosthesis meets the Veteran's 
mobility needs. The subsequent training process is intensive and 
requires commitment from the Veteran, their family, and the care team. 
This initial rehabilitation phase can extend more than a year post-
amputation.
    Post-prosthetic rehabilitation services involve close monitoring, 
especially during the first year. The team anticipates and responds to 
changes in the Veteran's limb and strength and makes necessary 
modifications to the prosthesis and rehabilitation plan. Veterans 
typically return to the Amputation Specialty Clinic multiple times in 
the first year after amputation to ensure the prosthesis supports the 
Veteran in achieving their functional goals.
    Long-term follow up and maintenance are crucial aspects of the ASoC 
model. VA recommends annual assessments for all Veterans with major 
amputations to ensure continuity of care and lifelong management. ASoC 
adopts a Whole Health approach that incorporates peer support, support 
groups, and adaptive sports to help Veterans reintegrate into the 
community.
    Adaptive sports programs play a significant role in the 
rehabilitation process. VA uses health care practitioners to refer 
patients to recreation therapists who educate Veterans and families 
about adaptive sports and leisure activities. They also aid Veterans 
with renewing pre-injury leisure activities, introduce adaptive 
equipment, teach new skills, and facilitate community integration. 
Adaptive Sports programs adhere to specific regulations for equipment 
provision and can have a profound impact on Veterans' well-being. They 
help Veterans restore functional capabilities, boost self-esteem, and 
improve overall quality of life. Recreation therapists, working with 
Veterans in adaptive sports programs, partner with the ASoC team when 
specialty prosthetic limbs are required to participate in a sport.
    Through this comprehensive approach, ASoC provides a continuum of 
support from pre-amputation through long-term care, ensuring Veterans 
receive the highest quality of care and support throughout their 
journey.

Recent Data

    During Fiscal Year (FY) 2024, the Veterans Health Administration 
(VHA) surgery programs performed over 8,000 amputations, which is a 7.7 
percent decrease from Fiscal Year 2019. Toe/foot amputations were most 
common (69.7 percent), followed by below-knee (19.9 percent) and above-
knee leg amputations (15.3 percent). A trend toward more distal 
(further away from the body) amputations in Fiscal Year 2024 suggested 
a preference for tissue preservation.
    Veterans undergoing amputations were predominantly male (98 
percent) with a mean age of 70 years. They often had complex 
comorbidities, which included diabetes (87 percent), peripheral 
vascular disease (82 percent), and ongoing tobacco use (over 50 
percent). Notably, most VA amputations result from chronic diseases 
rather than combat or trauma. Only 119 of the over 8,000 Fiscal Year 
2024 amputations were performed on Veterans with Operations Enduring 
Freedom, Iraqi Freedom, or New Dawn designations.

DoD and VA Partnerships

    The Department of Defense (DoD) and VA have established a robust 
collaborative framework to ensure seamless care for Service members and 
Veterans, particularly in amputation and limb trauma. This interagency 
partnership is exemplified through various initiatives and programs 
designed to enhance patient care, streamline processes, and foster 
innovation.
    One cornerstone of collaboration is the Extremity Trauma and 
Amputation Center of Excellence (EACE), which is a congressionally 
mandated joint effort that focuses on advancing care for individuals 
with limb trauma or amputations. EACE ensures consistency and 
efficiency across both agencies and demonstrates a commitment to 
providing the highest quality care for those who have sacrificed for 
our country.
    Another significant area of cooperation is the development and 
updating of Clinical Practice Guidelines (CPG). VA and DoD regularly 
join forces to create evidence-based guidelines that improve patient 
care for Veterans, Service members, and civilians. These interagency 
workgroups have made substantial progress in developing guidelines for 
upper and lower limb amputation rehabilitation, which ensures 
standardized care practices based on the latest research. CPGs for 
upper and lower limb amputation are publicly available on the VA/DoD 
Clinical Practice Guidelines webpage (https://
www.healthquality.va.gov). VA clinicians are informed of CPG updates 
through a variety of educational forums, such as webinars, community of 
practice calls, and email distribution to clinical providers.
    The collaboration extends to logistical support with VA's Denver 
Logistics Center (DLC) providing comprehensive supply chain management 
for various VA programs. Notably, DLC grants DoD orthotists and 
prosthetists access to its contracted orthotic and prosthetic 
components, which facilitates timely procurement and enhances care 
delivery. This cooperation is further strengthened by mutual 
participation of DoD and VA providers in each other's educational 
programming, thereby fostering knowledge exchange and professional 
development.
    To ensure a smooth transition of care for Service members, ASoC 
implemented a network of 25 Amputation Rehabilitation Coordinators 
across the country. These coordinators assist Service members with 
amputations in their transition to the VA system. Additionally, they 
help coordinate care for Veterans who receive ongoing treatment in both 
systems.
    The Office of Advanced Manufacturing (OAM) currently executes a 
Joint Incentive Fund (JIF) grant to align advanced manufacturing 
between VA and DoD. A major component of this work was developing a 
shared Quality Management System (QMS) that adheres to U.S. Food and 
Drug Administration (FDA) requirements and allows for the development 
and manufacturing of certain medical devices within VA and DoD, thus 
facilitating easy sharing of products and ideas. With the shared QMS 
and medical devices, transitioning Service members can expect to 
receive continuation of care and similar prosthetics services between 
DoD and VA.

Research and Innovation

    Since 9/11, technological advancements revolutionized care delivery 
and prosthetic devices. Additionally, VA improved communication between 
Veterans and their clinic teams through platforms like MyHealtheVet, My 
VA Images, and VA Video Connect. These tools allow Veterans to share 
their home and community environments with providers, which enables a 
better matching of prostheses and rehabilitation plans to optimize 
independence. VA's Office of Healthcare Innovation and Learning also 
has been instrumental in implementing cutting-edge technologies. By 
adopting 3D scanners, printers, and digital software, VA developed a 
digital prosthetic workflow and seamlessly integrated new hardware and 
software.
    Prosthetic devices have benefited from micro-computing and design 
improvements. Lower limb prostheses now use advanced algorithms and 
real-time measurements to react to user movements, which reduces the 
risk of falls. Power-generating foot and knee systems can actively 
propel users forward. Upper limb prostheses also have advanced systems 
that can identify muscle activity patterns to replicate desired 
movements more accurately and prosthetic hands that can move individual 
digits for increased precision.
    The human-prosthesis interface has seen advancements through 
various surgical techniques including Ertl technique, Targeted Muscle 
Reinnervation (TMR), and bone-anchored external prostheses. The Ertl 
technique is a surgical procedure in which a tibiofibular bone bridge 
is established with the intent of creating improved distal 
weightbearing. The TMR procedure aims to alleviate phantom limb pain 
and improve muscle control over myoelectric prostheses by intentional 
placement of nerves within selected muscles. Veterans now have access 
to osseointegration (OI) surgery creating direct skeletal attachment 
for the prosthetic limb. Nine Veterans have received OI surgery, either 
in VA or through a community provider, since the inception of the 
program in January 2022. VA is carefully monitoring the demand for this 
procedure to ensure Veterans have access to this innovative surgery.
    Ongoing research and development initiatives continue to push the 
boundaries of prosthetic technology. VA has funded a new research 
center with a focus on prosthetics, which brings the total number of VA 
Rehabilitation Research and Development Centers in amputation care and 
prosthetic technology to three. Current projects include a 3D-printed 
foot system to enable women Veterans to wear shoes of any size, type, 
and heel height; testing fully implanted neuro-prosthetic systems that 
enable users to feel touch through their prosthetic as if it were their 
own limb; improving clinical measures for upper-limb amputees; and 
developing shared decision-making tools for amputation level and 
prosthetic component selection. Research is also underway to improve 
prosthetic attachment methods. This research includes a multi-site 
study which tests a VA-developed bone-anchored prosthetic docking 
system, develops women-specific above-elbow prosthetic suspension 
systems, creates new variable-compliance below-elbow prosthetic arm 
sockets based on athletic shoe technology, and tests the effects of an 
adjustable above-knee socket on asymmetry, residual limb movement 
within the socket (socket pistoning) and comfort/satisfaction in female 
and male Veterans.

Procurement and Manufacturing

    VA balances efficiency with individual patient needs by following a 
structured approach to procuring and manufacturing prosthetics. 
Manufacturing challenges often stem from limitations in local 
resources, particularly in rural areas. To address these challenges and 
manage the device lifecycle, VA's regulations (38 C.F.R. Sec. Sec.  
17.3200-3250) prioritize repairing existing items unless replacement is 
clinically necessary or more cost-effective. Decisions regarding limb 
repair or replacement involve discussions between the clinician, 
Veteran, and Prosthetic and Sensory Aids Service (PSAS) representative.
    Case studies from the Denver VA Medical Center (VAMC) and 
Fayetteville VAMC highlight ongoing efforts to improve prosthetics 
services. Key improvements include aligning surgical implant handling 
with VHA Directive 1081.01(1), Procurement of Surgical Implants; 
enhancing Durable Medical Equipment contractor stocking; and addressing 
staffing shortages. These efforts have yielded tangible results, such 
as reducing open consults and eliminating delayed orders. The 
Fayetteville VAMC does not fabricate limbs. All prosthetic limb 
requests are referred to vendors for fabrication or procurement. The 
latest Veteran feedback report stated that 88.8 percent of clinical 
prosthetics patients expressed trust in their prosthetics team at the 
Fayetteville VAMC.
    The Office of Advanced Manufacturing is collaborating with various 
VA offices and external organizations to develop an end-to-end digital 
prosthetic workflow. This digital workflow aims to improve efficiencies 
in device delivery, reduce facility space requirements, and enhance 
communication across the VA enterprise including expanding capacity for 
community-based outpatient clinics (CBOC) and rural sites. The workflow 
also offers opportunities to improve procurement transparency, 
standardize care, and better understand the lifecycle of devices 
Veterans use.

Acquisition Process

    The prosthetics acquisition process within the VA system presents 
strengths and challenges. When VA providers handle artificial limb 
provision internally, the process is generally more streamlined due to 
effective collaboration between the Orthotic, Prosthetic, and Pedorthic 
Clinical Services (OPPCS), ASoC, and PSAS teams. This approach 
minimizes potential bottlenecks and creates a smoother experience for 
Veterans. However, when necessary, community fabrication is available. 
Involving community prosthetists requires additional steps. For items 
over $10,000, purchase requests must go through Contracting Officers, 
potentially delaying the delivery of artificial limbs. This process 
contrasts with the internal VA process, where such delays are 
significantly less frequent.

Quality of Care

    The ASoC's integrated care model exemplifies a patient-centered 
approach that emphasizes streamlined, coordinated amputation and 
prosthetic care. In Fiscal Year 2024, VA saw 18,387 unique Veterans 
with 38,122 encounters in amputation clinics, which included 7,896 
virtual care encounters to enhance access to specialty amputation care. 
This multidisciplinary strategy offers numerous benefits, including 
improved care coordination, cost savings, and continuity of care. 
Follow-up appointments provide opportunities for more in-depth 
evaluations and strikes a balance between comprehensive care and 
specialized attention.
    Prosthetic limbs are provided for Veterans through both internal 
capabilities and referral to community prosthetic providers. 
Approximately one-third of prosthetic limbs are fabricated within the 
VA system while two-thirds are provided by community prosthetic 
providers.
    To ensure high-quality prosthetic limb procurement, VA promotes an 
interdisciplinary post-delivery prosthesis checkout visit, going above 
the industry standard. In Fiscal Year 2023, for all Veterans receiving 
a limb through VA, 76 percent completed a post-delivery prosthesis 
checkout. Full Fiscal Year 2024 data are not yet available.
    Veteran satisfaction remains a top priority, as evidenced by 
continuous monitoring efforts using data from VEO's Veteran Signals 
(VSignals), a survey platform used to measure Veterans' trust in VA. In 
Fiscal Year 2024, results showed 95.4 percent of Veterans felt 
respected and comfortable during their Amputation Specialty Clinic 
experience, and 92.8 percent reported feeling the health care team 
included what matters most to the Veterans in their plans for what to 
do next in managing their health and well-being. ASoC proactively 
enhances patient experience through annual satisfaction evaluations and 
is currently collaborating with VEO to develop a Veteran Journey Map 
for the Amputation Specialty Clinic.
    To improve service delivery and provide more equitable care to 
rural Veterans, ASoC is exploring digital workflow infrastructure to 
extend prosthetic services beyond VA medical centers into outpatient 
clinics and Mobile Prosthetic and Orthotic Care units. Furthermore, 
ASoC leverages digital prosthetic workflows to enable collaboration 
across clinical services, and OAM is exploring ways to overlay 
different imaging modalities with patient anatomy and prosthetic 
devices. This approach aims to facilitate communication between 
surgery, wound care, rehabilitation, and prosthetics, ultimately 
yielding prosthetic devices that fit well, are comfortable, and prevent 
friction-related pressure wounds.
    ASoC demonstrates an unwavering commitment to providing Veterans 
with high-quality prosthetic devices and care services through a 
multifaceted approach to standards, quality control, and patient 
satisfaction. This dedication is evident in the organization's ongoing 
efforts to refine and implement evidence-based practices, which 
includes the forthcoming Lower Limb Amputation CPG that is set to 
release in December 2024, and a meticulous ``check out'' process for 
prostheses to ensure devices meet patients' needs in terms of fit, 
performance, and comfort.

Training and Education

    To enhance care quality, promote innovation, and empower those 
affected by limb loss, ASoC and its associated programs offer 
comprehensive training and education initiatives for providers, 
specialists, patients, and families. For health care professionals, 
ASoC provides annual regional trainings, a Monthly Education Series, 
and annual Peer Support Training in collaboration with the Amputee 
Coalition. Three Regional Amputation Center sites offer established 
PM&R physician Amputation Fellowships for specialized physician 
training, while the OPPCS National Program Office complements these 
efforts with monthly Virtual Education Sessions, annual in-person 
training, and the VA Prosthetic and Orthotic Residency Program.
    VA continues to develop training materials for implementing new 
technologies in prosthetic services and funds nearly 300 PM&R physician 
residency positions annually. In addition, VA supports Orthotics and 
Prosthetics (O&P) education through various initiatives, which includes 
funding residency positions, participating in trainee recruitment 
events, and providing resources for non-competitive hiring 
flexibilities. To further enhance the quality of care for Veterans with 
limb loss and other related conditions, VA also sponsors numerous 
physical therapy and occupational therapy residency and fellowship 
programs across various specialties.
    Veterans and their families also benefit from ASoC collaboration 
with the Amputee Coalition. This collaboration includes development of 
a workbook on sex and intimacy after amputation, as well as a robust 
Certified Peer Support program with over 25 trained VA Clinician 
Trainers and more than 40 VA Certified Peer Visitors.
    VA also leverages its relationships with Veterans Service 
Organizations (VSO) to better understand the Veteran experience. VSOs 
inform us of Veterans who are experiencing delays or challenges with 
their amputation-related care, which allows VA to address Veteran-
specific issues and perform service recovery. These challenging 
scenarios are used as training examples during national forums. VSOs 
have been invited to participate as faculty during our regional 
amputation training conferences to support education efforts and ensure 
the Veteran experience is adequately represented.

Future Improvements

    VA is actively addressing gaps in its O&P services and facing 
challenges such as limited access in the Midwest and among insular 
islands despite mobile care units. While weighing in-house production 
against outsourcing, VA aims to improve service delivery by 
streamlining procurement processes and hiring additional staff in areas 
of limited access.
    To modernize its prosthetic workflow, VA aims to implement an end-
to-end digital process to allow for better storage, reproduction, and 
research capabilities. This plan includes expanding access to 3D 
printing technologies and streamlining electronic systems nationwide. 
VA also introduced the Prosthetic Sock Management Tool, a patient-
centered education tool to aid in education and management of 
prosthetic sock use.

Conclusion

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and members of 
the Subcommittee on Health, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
today to update you on VA's holistic approach to amputee care. Our 
system encompasses innovative technologies, specialized care, and 
unwavering support to ensure Veterans with amputations receive the 
highest quality of care and services possible. Our commitment to 
ensuring that all Veterans receive the care, support, and respect they 
deserve remains steadfast. My colleagues and I are prepared to answer 
any questions you may have.

                    Prepared Statement of Jose Ramos
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

                    Prepared Statement of Matt Brown

    Thank you Chairman Miller-Meeks and Ranking Member Brownley for 
inviting me to testify on my prolonged and frustrating experience with 
VA Prosthetics Services and specifically the Fayetteville, North 
Carolina VA Medical Center. I am a U.S. Army veteran who enlisted in 
2009 and sustained two Traumatic Brain Injuries and spinal fractures 
due to airborne training operations at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. I 
left active service in 2011 and transitioned to the Maryland National 
Guard. I was honorably discharged from military service in 2015. I have 
always been very active physically, running, doing martial arts, and 
scuba diving. I was diagnosed with bone cancer in May 2021 and my life 
was forever changed in ways I do not wish on anyone. I was still a 
young man with a family and a thriving business and much of my self-
worth was derived from my physical abilities. Due to the extent of the 
cancer and my concerns about having the surgery done at a VA hospital, 
I was cleared for a Community Care referral to Duke Medical System in 
Raleigh, North Carolina in summer of 2021. My left leg was amputated 
above the knee on August 1, 2021 at Duke. After the surgery, I used a 
wheelchair for 7 months. During those 7 months I was unable to 
communicate with the prosthetics department because the phones were not 
functioning properly at my local VA center in Wilmington. I had to load 
my wheelchair in my truck and drive to the VA, where I would wait in 
the lobby to see the prosthetics person and ask them the status of my 
prosthetic. In the interim, I was cleared for follow on VA care on 
November 10, 2021. My first VA treatment appointment was on November 
18, 2021. The VA will tell you I was given a martial arts protective 
socket within 28 days and a state-of-the-art prosthetic leg system 
within 53 days of that appointment, but neither of these systems worked 
for me because they would not stay on my residual leg. I have since 
been told that getting out of a wheelchair and beginning to use a 
properly fitting and safe prosthetic within weeks, not months, of an 
amputation is optimal and can be essential to a positive overall 
physical and mental recovery. At that time in early 2022, I had no idea 
it would take VA another 2 years to get me that proper prosthetic and 
that I would have to advocate vigorously for myself at every turn, 
eventually seeking help from Representative Rouzer, Senator Tillis, and 
The Independence Fund to advocate for my health and well-being to the 
VA.
    My experiences with the VA over those 2 years were nothing short of 
bewildering and demoralizing. It seemed the staff at the local VA 
hospital consistently failed to communicate well about my care, follow 
through on my care coordination, and expedite requests for prosthetics. 
During that period, I worked with three different VA network private 
prosthetists in my local area of Wilmington, North Carolina. Although I 
was initially told I could select any provider, the one I selected for 
their reputation was not in the VA network so the VA selected another 
vendor for me at the onset.
    All of these vendors over time responded to VA requests to produce 
a proper fitting leg socket. On more than one occasion they told me the 
acquisition approval process at VA was often slow and sometimes they 
would not be paid promptly by VA for their services. I complained to VA 
about the poor communication from VA to these local vendors multiple 
times. While all of this was going on, VA denied my travel claims for 
the trips I took to Duke in 2021 for my cancer treatment and the 
surgery. I am still working with Congressman Rouzer to resolve this. 
Meanwhile, I have been contacted by bill collection agencies. This only 
added to the stress of not being able to resume my normal activities 
outside of a wheelchair.
    In October 2022, I heard from a fellow veteran amputee about a 
special socket the VA had provided him, called the Quattro variable 
volume socket. Given my level of physical activity and the changes in 
blood flow within my residual limb, I thought this system could be the 
answer to my ongoing search for a proper prosthetic. I indicated this 
to VA and requested they obtain one for me. I found out some time later 
that VA placed a requisition order for that socket, but never followed 
through to acquire it. The requisition sat idle while I repeatedly 
asked for this socket. The purchase order eventually expired and I had 
to start all over advocating again for the proper socket.
    I continued to work with a local vendor to obtain a properly 
fitting socket and during this period of months I was using a 
prosthetic ankle. I visited the vendor for routine maintenance in 
September 2022 and the vendor told me they had to repossess this item 
because VA hadn't replied to their requests for payment. I left the 
vendor that day without that ankle and had to use an older ankle that 
was not as flexible.
    For the next year, VA continued to pursue the same types of sockets 
and I continued to tell VA that I needed a different type of socket, 
basically the Quattro. This ``ground hog day'' process was extremely 
frustrating for me and my family. During this period, I was stuck in a 
wheel chair for 6 months. I missed out on so many personal activities.
    In October 2023, I was preparing to travel overseas and was still 
waiting for a socket to be delivered that fit properly. I let VA know I 
had a time limit on how long I could wait before my travel and VA 
directed a local vendor to provide me with a socket, but the vendor was 
concerned it wouldn't fit well and when it wouldn't I had to travel 
using my old, poorly fitting socket. That socket failed during my trip 
and it was very painful to walk and I came home with an infection. Upon 
my return, I was so frustrated that I let my contact at Congressman 
Rouzer's staff know about this. They assisted me further with VA, but 
progress was slow. After almost 2 months of congressional inquiry, I 
reached out to The Independence Fund's Casework Team in Charlotte. 
Their team and Congressman Rouzer's staff partnered to press VA for 
answers on the continued delays in my care and obtaining a properly 
fitting prosthetic. In December 2023, after calls and emails between 
Representative Rouzer's staff and the team at The Independence Fund 
with VA staff at Fayetteville and Washington DC, VA finally agreed to 
shift my prosthetic care from Fayetteville, North Carolina to Richmond, 
Virginia. My prosthetic doctor in Wilmington had left her practice at 
VA in 2022, so I was consequently assigned to a prosthetic doctor in 
Richmond as a result of the outreach to VA. That new doctor looked into 
my medical conditions and spent significant time assessing my needs for 
a different type of socket so I could get out of a wheelchair, travel 
more easily for my business, and finally participate in sporting 
activities with my wife and friends for personal and family well-being.
    The Richmond VA doctor worked with me and a third local vendor to 
get me an interim socket that fit well and allowed me to travel for 
business in January 2024. It would not be until May 2024 when VA 
finally purchased and delivered the Quattro socket I use today. Since 
then I have lost thirty five pounds due to my increased activities and 
feel like a new person today. This only happened because of continued 
pressure on VA from Representative Rouzer, Senator Tillis, and The 
Independence Fund.
    Looking forward, it's clear to me that VA needs a major rework or 
reform of how they address and process everyday amputee's needs for 
prosthetics, especially ones like mine, and deliver them timely. The 
entire experience can be overly bureaucratic, sluggish, and often 
impersonal, sometimes uncaring. I know VA has testified that the costs 
of these special recreational limbs is a concern, but very honestly 
these experts don't realize what it's like to be confined to a 
wheelchair for months, unable to swim or run, and they are ignoring the 
other unseen costs the long delays I experienced can cause, like the 
mental anguish I went through with my family and the related financial 
costs VA paid for with additional mental health visits I needed over 
those 2 years. There are also lifelong future cost savings for VA when 
veterans obtain the prosthetics they need to live active and fulfilling 
lives and don't have to rely on VA for more medical care. The VA has 
also testified that all these services are already being provided, yet 
I and other amputees are proof that commitment is not being uniformly 
honored or followed by local VA staffs and supported by a responsive 
acquisition system. We are not looking for special treatment, we just 
want to live our lives as independently and actively as possible.

                   Prepared Statement of Ashlie White
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


    Prepared Statement of the U.S. Government Accountability Office
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                  Prepared Statement of Scott Restivo

    I joined the United States Army in March 2006 and was honorably 
discharged in January 2014. I deployed overseas with each unit I 
served. My combat service began in Iraq from 2007-2008 with 2d 
Battalion, 22d Infantry Regiment, 10th Mountain Division where I was 
attached to Special Forces and participated in air assaults and 
multiple fire fights. I deployed a second time to Iraq from Fort Lewis, 
Washington in 2010 with 2d Battalion, 23d Infantry, as an infantryman 
in a Stryker unit. My last deployment was from Fort Campbell to 
Afghanistan with 3d Battalion, 187th Infantry. During that deployment, 
a guard tower I was posted in was struck by enemy rocket propelled 
grenade fire. Early in my military service I injured my right leg in 
training and that injury was later aggravated on deployment, eventually 
requiring a rod placement. I also have a moderate traumatic brain 
injury (TBI), hearing loss, and ongoing complications such as seizures 
and PTSD in addition to other medical conditions. The rod that was 
placed in my leg by the Army at Fort Drum later dislodged into my knee 
tearing my meniscus and causing revision of my patella tendon. I was 
willing to remain in the Army, but due to administrative issues and 
what I saw as improper handling of my medical care in the Army, 
including a misrepresentation of the origin of my injury as occurring 
pre-service, my medical discharge process was denied and I was not 
medically retired by the Army. Consequently, I do not qualify for 
TRICARE and have since faced prolonged and significant challenges since 
my discharge receiving timely and appropriate treatment and care from 
the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA).
    This is a condensed summary of my medical journey and my advocacy 
efforts relative to the VA:

    -My primary health care doctor at the VA had us apply for the 
Caregiver Program in 2016 given our needs. We were subsequently denied 
admission to the program in 2016, despite my need for continuous care. 
The reason given was I did not need 6 months of continuous care. Due to 
my medical conditions, Lelia had to quit working because I was having 
seizures, incontinence, and non-cognitive episodes. I had a home health 
nurse for wound care, a PICC line my wife had to change every few 
hours, speech therapy, OT, PT, and a leg that was impeding my mobility. 
I endured multiple knee surgeries without improvement, had PICC line 
complications, and ER visits.

    -On November 15, 2016, the VA performed right knee surgery to 
remove the dislodged rod and reconstructed my knee.

    -Post-surgery, I frequently visited the ER with severe symptoms, 
including loss of consciousness, seizures, fever, and a discharging 
incision wound. The VA ER only provided fluids and a few times cleaned 
the wound and stabilized my condition. Multiple outside hospitals 
identified an infection, but could only stabilize the issue and kept 
referring me back to the VA since they did the initial surgery.

    -My wife, Lelia, aggressively advocated for my care and condition. 
She reached out to my Primary Care Provider, Mental Health Specialist, 
Neurology, Orthopedics, social workers, and patient advocates since 
surgery complications began.

    -In January 2017, my wife finally got a call from the head of the 
Nashville VA hospital's Orthopedics department and arranged a time for 
me to be seen. During that visit, 500+ liters of fluid were drained 
from the knee in my right leg and I was wheeled into immediate 
emergency surgery due to sepsis.

    -I awoke days later burning up with a fever, I had gone into shock 
and nearly died from sepsis. My wife had called family members in as 
the staff didn't think I would make it. Four days later I had broken my 
fever only to awaken confused and remember being frustrated, in pain, 
and being wheelchair dependent with round the clock PICC line changes.

    -Recently, we discovered several news articles that revealed the 
VA's sterilization equipment was down during the initial surgery, 
indicating non-sterile conditions.

    -After 6 months of constant advocacy by my wife and pleading with 
the VA orthopedic surgeon an outside Orthopedic referral was finally 
approved in June 2017.

    -During the first appointment Tennessee Ortho Association images 
revealed that the infection had spread into the bone and they could do 
nothing to stop the spread of infection. I was referred for care at 
Vanderbilt University Hospital.

    -I had bone grafts, and several surgeries at Vanderbilt, but was 
still sick and losing more and more mobility. Essentially, I had a dead 
limb I was dragging around with me daily. The last surgery and attempt 
to save my leg was unsuccessful. I broke down and decided I was done 
living ill and I wanted to live my life to the fullest even if that 
meant without a leg.

    -On October 18, 2018, my right leg above the knee was amputated at 
Vanderbilt. Some days I wish the guard tower attack had taken me out or 
the rocket just had taken my leg off then. It had now been 6 years 
since the rod had initially dislodged into the knee, and I suffered the 
slow death of my leg into the bone, primarily due to negligence. This 
is not how anyone should lose a limb.

    -The VA delayed providing me with a prosthetic for 6 months and 
offered inadequate Physical Therapy. The Nashville VA prosthetic clinic 
was ineffective, offering incorrect prosthetics, infrequent 
appointments, and poor communication. I experienced frequent prosthetic 
malfunctions, falls, and inconsistent care. Liners last approximately 3 
months, but I went 18 months with two liners and this caused sores and 
wounds to my stump. I had a loaner leg for over 6 months due to a 
microprocessor malfunction and the need for it to be sent out to be 
fixed by the manufacturer. That was the third time I had a loaner leg 
for extended periods of time. Each time I am in a loaner leg, it 
affects my gate and ability to walk and function correctly. As of this 
testimony, I am still waiting for a proper prosthetic leg that allows 
me the normal mobility I am seeking.

    Based on my experiences with VA, I offer the following 
observations:

    -I essentially have received inconsistent care throughout the 
entire VA system, predominantly in Nashville and not just only with 
prosthetics care.

    -A 2018 VA hearing sought repayment of separation pay, later found 
to be improperly coded, because DOD had granted me relief and the VA 
judge recommended relief, but the VA overruled their judge and recouped 
all pay from March to August 2020. This was during the pandemic and the 
sudden loss of that money caused me and Lelia undue stress and 
hardship.

    -My VA primary care provider changed, leading to misdiagnosis and 
overlooked issues, such as infections and kidney stones. VA imaging 
showed one kidney stone and Vanderbilt's showed multiple.

    -In February 2020, I experienced severe blood pressure issues, 
leading to ICU admission and a finding of a mitral valve issue, yet I 
was discharged without resolving my blood pressure cycling. I was 
admitted to Skyline hospital, they found I was allergic to the 
medication the VA put me on and I was on the stroke watch for 5 days. 
Advocacy efforts resulted in a new Primary Care Manager in 2021 and I 
was assigned to a palliative care team, but my major health issues 
remained unresolved.

    -In 2022, a congressional inquiry revealed lost caregiver 
applications and vehicle grants dating back to 2018. By early 2023, 
vehicle repairs prompted reapplication for a vehicle allowance, 
revealing systemic VA issues. Continuous communication with the chief 
of staff's secretary at Nashville VA resulted in no tangible outcomes.

    -In March 2023, my wife quit her job teaching to advocate for my 
medical issues full-time, leading to a confrontational prosthetics 
appointment and to an inner facility consult with transfer of 
prosthetic care from Nashville VA to Tampa VA.

    -We made regular trips from Tennessee to Tampa for laser treatments 
and prosthetics fittings and while we experienced initial improvements 
in care, we faced logistical and financial challenges.

    -By late 2023, the prosthetic issues persisted, requiring multiple 
repairs and causing frequent falls.

    -Dental complications arose, with VA dental falsely diagnosing an 
emergency infection.

    -Advocacy again led to some progress, such as an adaptive housing 
grant approval, but continuous care and prosthetic issues remained 
unresolved.

    -Our second Caregiver Program denial was appealed, and I faced 
significant ongoing challenges with prosthetic fitting and 
functionality.

    -Travel expenses are not fully covered to Tampa for necessary 
treatment and have imposed significant financial burdens. Communication 
with Tampa prosthetics is now crossing over into other care 
communications issues between other VA providers.

    -In February, 2024, Tampa VA was supposed to have ordered or 
prescribed a new socket for the current daily use prosthetic because 
mine is broken and does not fit. This prosthetic knee was repaired over 
4 times within a 6-month period, and I had been in a loaner leg since 
November 2023. The repaired knee was to be used as a backup in place of 
a loaner leg situation. A new fitting socket and copy of the daily use 
microprocessor was also supposed to be ordered for the function of 
daily use in the event we lose power at our home, as has happened for 
days after storms. I received this new system on July 8, 2024. It was 
not functional for long term daily use; it is supposed to be waterproof 
so I may be able to use it as a shower leg and not need a shower leg 
made, though I have requested a water leg since the day of surgery 
because I want to be safe and feel normal and be able to stand in the 
shower. I did receive two liners and they arrived a year after I had 
last received liners, despite multiple communications stating the need 
for them since our November 2023 visit to Tampa. I left my appointment 
with Hanger Prosthetics in July with the still broken socket and 
malfunctioning knee, carrying the non-microprocessor system with videos 
of gait training so my wife can assist me in learning how to use the 
leg on my own.
    In conclusion, I pray that my journey illustrates the severe 
challenges faced in obtaining adequate care through the VA. Despite 
some progress, due in significant part to The Independence Fund's 
unceasing effort to get our voice finally heard and this story told at 
the upper levels of the VA in Washington DC and by this Committee's 
staff, significant gaps in care and support persist, necessitating 
ongoing advocacy and intervention to improve my quality of life. I 
thought going to war would be the end of the battle, but the fight has 
been for my life in seeking medical care in the VA system. I ask 
Congress for a change of access to timely and efficient prosthetic care 
whenever requested, so that no Veteran suffers the loss and function of 
a limb or inadequate prosthetic limb care the way I have.

                                 

               Prepared Statement of The American Legion

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley and distinguished 
members of the House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Health on behalf 
of National Commander James LaCoursiere and The American Legion, the 
country's largest service organization for veterans, comprised of more 
than 1.5 million dues-paying members, we thank you for the opportunity 
to offer this statement for the record regarding life after limb loss 
and the prosthetics care provided to veterans by the VA.

                           Amputees' Stories

    This year our organization has conducted numerous interviews with 
amputees. This includes an interview with U.S. Army veteran Geoffrey 
Quevedo on November 6th, 2024\1\ and a subsequent interview with U.S. 
Army veteran Earl Granville on November 14th, 2024\2\. Additionally, 
U.S. Air Force veteran Adam Popp was interviewed on the Tango Alpha 
Lima Podcast on May 7th, 2024\3\.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Petrie, Andrew, Joshua Hastings, and Geoffrey Quevedo. The 
American Legion Health Policy Amputee Interviews. Personal, November 6, 
2024.
    \2\ Hastings, Joshua, Sri Benson, and Earl Granville. The American 
Legion Health Policy Amputee Interview. Personal, November 14, 2024.
    \3\ Marr, Adam, Stacy Pearsall, and Adam Popp. A Record-Setting 
Veteran Amputee. Other, n.d. https://www.legion.org/information-center/
news/tango-alpha-lima/2024/may/a-record-setting-veteran-amputee.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On Nov. 30, 2012, while on patrol in Afghanistan, Geoffrey Quevedo 
and a fellow soldier from the 10th Mountain Division discovered an 
improvised explosive device (IED). As they attempted to disarm the 
device, it exploded--catastrophically wounding Geoffrey and his squad 
mate, leading them to be medically evacuated to Walter Reed Medical 
Center in Bethesda, Maryland. Geoffrey originally had his left foot and 
left arm above the elbow amputated. These injuries led to more than 40 
surgeries with the eventual amputation of his left leg below the knee. 
Due to complications, he now deals with chronic pain, vision loss and 
migraine headaches.
    When asked about his experiences in receiving treatment, Mr. 
Quevedo mentioned difficulties in reordering extra sleeves and 
prosthetic supplies from VA. These reorders are due to the wear and 
tear of Geoffrey pushing himself to run 5-kilometer and 10-kilometer 
marathons. He said, ``Sometimes it feels like I'm being punished for 
trying to be active.'' It is clear that VA should recognize these kinds 
of supplies, adaptive sports and recreation prosthetics as clinically 
necessary for amputees.
    We should be eliminating barriers to exercise, not creating them, 
as it is an essential part of living a healthy life and addressing 
upstream health complications. Geoffrey also talked about his decision 
to move closer to his community care provider and his frustration with 
VA's delayed payments to his provider after receiving care.
    When asked to describe his strongest support system, Geoffrey noted 
how instrumental peer support from the amputee community was in his 
recovery. He said it is an honor to be an example to younger veterans 
walking down a similar road: ``Pain becomes a part of life--there is 
really nothing you can do to take it all away. You go from being top 
dog, to someone always asking for help.'' He realized the most painful 
thing about his recovery was dealing with the loss of his independence. 
``This is why I always tell them to stay active.''
    Earl Granville agreed with Geoffrey, noting that working with other 
amputees has been critical to his own recovery. Earl was deployed to 
Afghanistan when--on June 3, 2008--an IED exploded, ejecting Granville 
out of the vehicle and killing two fellow soldiers, Major Scott Hagerty 
and Specialist Derek Holland.
    Mr. Granville talked about the training he received from the 
Amputee Coalition, where they worked on learning to listen. There, he 
would often break the ice with younger amputees, saying ``Hey, you've 
got that new shiny thing. How is that going?'' Granville now tours 
around the country promoting his philosophy of the three Ps: purpose, 
passion and being part of something bigger than oneself.
    When asked about his experience receiving care, Mr. Granville gave 
the Walter Reed Medical Center a glowing recommendation. He is 
generally pleased with the care he is receiving from VA. One drawback 
he mentioned, however, is the inconvenience of having to go in person 
to a VA facility when a certain process could be conducted digitally. 
``We need to make it easier on these guys.''
    In addition to interviewing Mr. Quevedo and Mr. Granville, The 
American Legion Tango Alpha Lima podcast interviewed Air Force veteran 
Adam Popp on May 7, 2024. Mr. Popp became an amputee during his 
deployment to the province of Paktia in Afghanistan, where he was 
wounded by a secondary IED, resulting in the amputation of his right 
leg above the knee. Since then, he has become an outstanding athlete, 
setting seven new marks in the Guinness Book of World Records.
    In his interview, Popp mentions that he understands his 
achievements reflect not only his physical fitness, but his strong 
mental state. He admits that in the aftermath of his injury, he did not 
seek out such challenges. ``It's about seeking out selective struggles, 
some type of challenge, and then coming out stronger on the other side, 
whether that is through physical activity, education or personal 
struggles that happen in anyone's daily life.'' He ended with a 
question: ``Is that going to beat us down or lead us to a more fruitful 
and productive life?''

                         Post-traumatic Growth

    The theory of post-traumatic growth (PTG) suggests that people can 
rebuild their foundation by believing they are not defined by what has 
happened to them, i.e., positive psychological change can occur after 
experiencing a traumatic event. PTG therapies often pursue new 
experiences to take advantage of the increased neuroplasticity (the 
brain's ability to form and reorganize synaptic connections) of 
traumatized patients. This increased neuroplasticity follows both 
physical and psychological trauma. Due to the untraditional nature of 
PTG therapies, it has been difficult for the VA to implement system-
wide programs. The Staff Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention 
Grant Program should continue to seek community partners who deliver 
PTG programs for veterans. The image of the broken hero needs to be 
replaced with one of strength and mental resilience.

                          Opioid Use Disorder

    Many veterans become amputees due to explosions or blast-related 
events; these lead not only to injuries such as amputations but often 
cause spinal cord injuries (SCIs) and traumatic brain injuries (TBIs). 
These types of injuries can lead to chronic pain, loss of movement, and 
other serious medical problems throughout the body.
    About one-third of veterans with SCIs will experience persistent 
neuropathic pain after injury, and opioids are considered among the 
most effective treatments for neuropathic pain. This puts veterans 
suffering from polytrauma at a substantial risk for opioid use 
disorder.
    According to the National Library of Medicine, U.S. military 
veterans have been heavily impacted by the opioid crisis, with drug 
overdose mortality rates increasing by 53 percent from 2010 to 2019.\4\ 
The need to improve overdose prevention efforts remains clear and more 
should be done to provide effective alternatives to opioids for chronic 
pain management.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Woller, Sarah A., and Michelle A. Hook. 2013. ``Opioid 
Administration Following Spinal Cord Injury: Implications for Pain and 
Locomotor Recovery.'' Experimental Neurology 247 (September): 328-41. 
https://doi.org/10.1016/j.expneurol.2013.03.008.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                             Gaming Therapy

    In January 2024, The American Legion conducted a System Worth 
Saving (SWS) site visit to the James A. Haley Veterans' Hospital 
(JAHVH) in Tampa, Florida. During a tour of the facility, the SWS team 
was given the opportunity to meet Jamie Kaplan, a recreation therapist 
who informed us about JAHVH Gaming, a gaming community of about 350 
servicemembers and veterans who meet five nights a week. The array of 
adaptive gaming controllers and other gaming prosthetics was most 
impressive, using combinations of hands, feet and even lung power.
    These innovative approaches are a critical part of addressing the 
isolation felt by many veterans with limb loss and can provide both 
support and entertainment. When The American Legion's Health Policy 
team highlighted these innovations with Mr. Quevedo in our interview, 
his face brightened--envisioning playing video games with his 
daughters. More should be done to make such dreams a commonplace 
reality.
    During the Tampa visit, the late Autrey James, previous Chairman of 
The American Legion's Veterans Affairs & Rehabilitation Commission, 
became extremely interested in the gaming program and spoke about the 
Legion's efforts in California to create supportive veteran gaming 
communities. He informed Mr. Kaplan that the Legion's Department of 
California had established a Gaming Committee in 2023 to help promote 
camaraderie, improve mental health and aid recruiting efforts.

                    Age/Gender-Appropriate Resources

    The young age of traumatic and non-traumatic amputees highlights 
the need for age-appropriate resources. Many of the post-9/11 veterans 
are still within working age, as indicated by a study that showed 37 
percent of veterans with limb loss are employed. Post-9/11 veterans 
have different prosthetic needs compared to older veterans.
    According to recent research, approximately 85 percent of veterans 
with a limb amputation are under the age of 35. Older veterans with co-
morbidities related to their limb loss are often physically challenged 
and have difficulty exercising; this is in contrast to younger veterans 
who are more physically able but face other challenges such as mental 
health difficulties due to trauma and PTSD.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Murray, Craig D., Heather Havlin, and Victoria Molyneaux. 2023. 
``Considering the Psychological Experience of Amputation and 
Rehabilitation for Military Veterans: A Systematic Review and 
Metasynthesis of Qualitative Research.'' Disability and Rehabilitation, 
March, 1-20. https://doi.org/10.1080/09638288.2023.2182915.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last, with the increase number of women veterans serving during the 
post-9/11 era, we have also noticed an increase in gender-specific 
prosthetic needs. In past years, amputations among veterans were a 
male-dominated concern. Many women who served in recent wars have also 
suffered from limb loss and they have different needs when it comes to 
prosthetics. For example, thinner and lighter devices are required to 
provide the function and agility women need to be as independent as 
possible.

                               Conclusion

    The lack of age/gender-appropriate resources for young veterans 
must be addressed. Alternatives to opioids must be made readily 
available to veterans who suffer from spinal cord injuries and chronic 
pain. Access to alternative treatments for polytrauma--such as PTG 
virtual reality therapy, adaptive sports and recreation prosthetics - 
must be increased and additional research must be funded. VA and DoD 
need to work more closely in helping to ease the burden of 
transitioning servicemembers who require prosthetic maintenance, 
training and rehabilitation.
    The American Legion strongly supports VA efforts to fund, develop, 
and provide gender-specific prosthetic appliances, orthotics, and 
services through multiple avenues--such as medical facilities, 
community outreach centers and mobile clinics. VA must continue to 
engage in research and innovation to ensure that veterans are provided 
with sufficient opportunities to mobilize independently.
    Research should encompass the latest technologies in prosthetics 
and orthopedic devices and should include comparative analyses on best 
practices and outcomes derived from the Medicare program and the 
commercial health insurance market relating to the coverage of 
assistive technologies.
    Finally, the tragic effects of physical and mental disabilities 
overwhelm some veterans who end up taking their own lives. Without 
question, successful treatment plays a key role in suicide prevention. 
The restoration of mobility, positive psychological changes, safe pain 
management and a sense of community are powerful tools in reducing 
veteran suicides.
    Two of the veterans who shared their stories with The American 
Legion have felt the tragedy of suicide. Mr. Quevedo's former squad 
mate, Quinton Picone, died from suicide 5 years after the IED incident 
in Afghanistan. Mr. Granville's twin brother Joe took his own life in 
2010; the brothers had served together in the Army on multiple 
deployments.
    Suicide prevention remains The American Legion's most important 
mission. In partnership with The Columbia Lighthouse Project and the 
QPR Institute, our national ``Be The One'' program has provided 
training in suicide prevention for more than 10,000 members of The 
American Legion family - our goal is to train more than 100,000 by the 
end of 2025.
    Furthermore, The American Legion Buddy Check Program aims to 
reconnect veterans who may need assistance but do not know where to go 
or who to ask for help. In concert with this effort, the VA held its 
first Veteran Buddy Check Summit last month, an event that was 
extremely well received.
    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley and distinguished 
members of this Subcommittee, The American Legion thanks you sincerely 
for your leadership and for allowing us to explain the position of our 
membership on the issue of VA prosthetics care for amputees. For 
additional information regarding this testimony, please contact the 
director of our Legislative Division, Julia Mathis, at 
[email protected].

                                 [all]