[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
OVERSIGHT OF THE FEDERAL
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
NOVEMBER 19, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-137
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: govinfo.gov,
oversight.house.gov or
docs.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
57-442 PDF WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman
Jim Jordan, Ohio Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking
Mike Turner, Ohio Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Gary Palmer, Alabama Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Ro Khanna, California
Pete Sessions, Texas Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Andy Biggs, Arizona Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Nancy Mace, South Carolina Katie Porter, California
Jake LaTurner, Kansas Cori Bush, Missouri
Pat Fallon, Texas Shontel Brown, Ohio
Byron Donalds, Florida Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania Robert Garcia, California
William Timmons, South Carolina Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Greg Casar, Texas
Lisa McClain, Michigan Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Dan Goldman, New York
Russell Fry, South Carolina Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Nick Langworthy, New York Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eric Burlison, Missouri
Mike Waltz, Florida
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Mark Marin, Staff Director
Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
Bill Womack, Senior Advisor
Alex Rankin, Counsel
Abby Salter, Counsel
Sloan McDonagh, Counsel
Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk
Contact Number: 202-225-5074
Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
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C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on November 19, 2024................................ 1
WITNESSES
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The Honorable Deanne Criswell, Administrator, Federal Emergency
Management Agency
Oral Statement............................................... 5
Opening statements and the prepared statements for the witnesses
are available in the U.S. House of Representatives Repository
at: docs.house.gov.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
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* Statement for the Record; submitted by Rep. Connolly.
* Article, NBCNews.com, ``Trump Admin Pulling Millions From
FEMA Disaster Relief''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, Grist, ``After the Flood''; submitted by Rep. Tlaib.
* Article, Gateway Pundit, ``My Blood is Boiling Furious Elon
Musk Goes Off on FEMA''; submitted by Rep. Boebert.
* FEMA Headlines; submitted by Rep. Boebert.
* Article, New York Post, ``FEMA worker accused of telling
staff to skip Trump homes''; submitted by Rep. Donalds.
* Article, Politico, ``Trump Initially Refused to give CA
Aid''; submitted by Rep. Frost.
* Letter, November 19, 2024, to FEMA; submitted by Rep.
Higgins.
* Article, CNN.com, ``Amid Bipartisan Praise for Biden
Hurricane Response, Trump Claims Reviews Negative''; submitted
by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, The Washington Post, ``Biden Did Not Take FEMA
Relief Funds to Use on Migrants''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
INDEX OF DOCUMENTS
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* Article, CNN.com, ``DeSantis and Biden Speak on Storm
Recovery''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, Reuters, ``FEMA Funds Not Diverted to Migrants by
Biden Admin''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, The Hill, ``Kemp Praises Biden's Hurricane Helene
Response''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, Axios, ``Trump Reallocates $155M From FEMA Disaster
Relief to Fund ICE''; submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Press Release, FEMA, DHS Announces $210M of Additional Funds;
submitted by Rep. Raskin.
* Article, The Daily Signal, ``Rotten To a Core - 5 Year FEMA
Vet Reveals''; submitted by Rep. Steube.
* Letter, November 15, 2024, to FEMA; submitted by Rep. Steube.
* Article, BridgeDetroit, ``Devastating floods leave Detroiters
with toxic mold''; submitted by Rep. Tlaib.
* Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell;
submitted by Chairman Comer.
* Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell;
submitted by Rep. Foxx.
* Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell;
submitted by Rep. Donalds.
* Questions for the Record: to Administrator Criswell;
submitted by Rep. Burchett.
The documents listed are available at: docs.house.gov.
OVERSIGHT OF THE FEDERAL
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY
----------
Tuesday, November 19, 2024
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Accountability
Washington, D.C.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:18 p.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. James Comer
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Comer, Jordan, Gosar, Foxx,
Grothman, Cloud, Palmer, Higgins, Sessions, Mace, Fallon,
Donalds, Timmons, Burchett, Greene, McClain, Boebert, Fry,
Luna, Langworthy, Burlison, Raskin, Norton, Lynch,
Krishnamoorthi, Mfume, Ocasio-Cortez, Porter, Brown, Stansbury,
Frost, Lee, Crockett, Goldman, Moskowitz, Tlaib, and Pressley.
Also present: Representatives Steube and McCormick.
Chairman Comer. This hearing of the Committee on Oversight
and Accountability will come to order. I want to welcome
everyone here today. Sorry we are getting late. Votes extended
about 15 minutes longer than they were supposed to.
Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any
time.
I now recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening
statement.
Today marks our first hearing since the election in which
President Trump won in a landslide. This summer, Ranking Member
Raskin described Republicans as a ``shrinking, shriveling
minority party. They are a cult of personality, and there are
not many people who are buying the cult and dogma anymore.''
Yet, just 2 weeks ago, President Trump received historic
support from Americans of all races, religions, and
backgrounds. It is clear the American people are not buying
what the Democrats and their allies and the media are selling
anymore.
For nearly a decade, Democrats, many of whom are in this
room today, have demonized the millions of Americans who
support President Trump. I think of the proud Americans in my
district--good neighbors, citizens, and God-fearing
individuals. They are tired of being called trash, cult
followers, fascist, Nazis, and many other horrific names for
simply loving their country and supporting President Trump. My
constituents want the cost of living to stop skyrocketing,
whether it is food, gas, heating their homes. They want the
border sealed to stop the flow of illegals and criminal aliens
coming to our communities, and they want to end the
weaponization of government. Unfortunately, we have recently
seen a disturbing example of this weaponization of government
on full display.
In the wake of Hurricane Milton, at least one FEMA official
engaged in political discrimination against supporters of
President Trump. This official ordered employees to
discriminate against vulnerable Americans affected by a
hurricane when they needed assistance the most. This same
employee alleged on TV that this was not an isolated event, and
that FEMA essentially treats the homes of President Trump
supporters as if they were homes of people with vicious dogs.
This is unacceptable. Americans demand accountability.
Today's hearing provides Members of the Committee and the
American people the opportunity to get answers about these
troubling developments that have overshadowed FEMA's critical
mission. While today's hearing will focus on FEMA, the issue at
hand is part of a larger problem: the urgent need to hold the
unelected, unaccountable Federal workforce accountable to the
American people and the duly elected President of the United
States. In his first term, President Trump faced not only open
insubordination from Federal employees who refused to help
implement his policies, but also subtler practices intended to
thwart elements of his agenda. And we are already hearing
through media reports that some Federal employees from DOD,
EPA, and, of course, DOJ, are already plotting to thwart
President Trump's agenda when he is sworn in as President in
January. The current system does not have strong enough
mechanisms to ensure accountability. The disciplinary system is
run by and for civil servants to protect civil servants.
President Trump has pledged to take action to bring
accountability to the Federal workforce and ensure there are
measures in place to appropriately deal with poor performers
and those who actively resist implementing the policies of a
duly elected President, and he will have strong allies in the
Republican Members of this House Oversight Committee.
Democrats claim President Trump is trying to politicize the
civil service, but situations like the one at FEMA validate our
concerns that it is already politicized. Under the Biden-Harris
administration, the civil service has not only grown in size,
but also in power, and this power is evident. Just ask the
people in Highlands County, Florida. They needed help, but at
least one FEMA official used her power to make help harder to
get. We only know this because one whistleblower was brave
enough to come forward, but others knew about this and said
nothing, and FEMA leadership did not take action against its
supervisor until the press exposed the discrimination. More
importantly, FEMA officials did not immediately end the
discrimination. Since being fired, the supervisor has made
multiple media appearances claiming she was following direction
from above and that this practice is widespread.
So, the question is this: from FEMA's perspective, was her
main offense not only saying the quiet part out loud, but that
she put it in writing? Who knows how many victims of Florida
were left out of rapid disaster relief response, and what about
other areas of the country? How long has this gone on and
where? It is not acceptable for anyone to threaten the life or
safety of FEMA employees if FEMA does not protect its people,
but this does not justify writing off a huge segment of the
population. I am eager to hear from the Administrator today
about the status of FEMA's disaster relief efforts, as well as
how we can prevent further discrimination. I want to thank you,
Administrator, for being here today, and I now yield to the
Ranking Member for his opening statement.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and congratulations on
your victory, and thank you for your magnanimous statement at
the beginning. I know you are proud of the 4 million vote
majority which the President-elect seems to have now, just as
we were proud of the 7 million vote majority that Joe Biden had
4 years ago. The difference, of course, is that we acknowledge
the loss of our candidate in this election, and we are not
involved in trying to overturn the election or the
Constitution, but we accept the Constitution and we accept the
victory of the President-elect.
Now, thank you for calling this hearing today. As of last
month, more than 300 Americans have lost their lives to the
hurricanes. Millions of people across the Southeast have had
their lives uprooted, their families displaced, and their
communities ravaged by Hurricanes Helene and Milton. Friends of
my family were forced from their home in Asheville, North
Carolina, and they came to stay with us in Maryland for several
weeks following this nightmare, and we closely tracked the
recovery effort, which has been unceasing and determined, even
though aid was still too slow in getting into some communities.
FEMA is America's lifeline in disasters like these,
coordinating rapid response and recovery efforts with state and
local first responders and rescue agencies. In these
hurricanes, FEMA deployed swiftly, providing survivors with
temporary shelter, debris removal, and other emergency
measures, including the $750 for serious needs assistance for
individuals to get items like food, water, baby formula, and
medicine. FEMA's disaster work is not conducted by a unitary
force of full-time Federal Government employees, but rather, a
dynamic team of emergency responders and agencies drawn from
across the country, which includes Federal, state, and local
workers, full-time and part-time employees and private
contractors. Two of my own constituents, Montgomery County Fire
and Rescue Service captains, Josh Kurland and Dave Hutchinson,
went south with rescue teams to help communities hit by
Hurricane Helene. FEMA workers from around America helped their
fellow Americans get back on their feet after a disaster like
this.
Now even in the heat of the Presidential election, Mr.
Chairman, FEMA's response won high praise from leaders across
the political spectrum. Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin said,
``I am incredibly appreciative of the rapid response and the
cooperation from the team at FEMA.'' Florida Governor DeSantis
said, ``Everything we have asked for from President Biden, he
has approved,'' and our Florida colleague, Congresswoman Luna,
said, ``As I am seeing, FEMA has been very helpful, and I have
been in direct communication with them, and they are absolutely
going to assist because President Biden has told them to do
so.''
So, we could be here today celebrating the workforce of
22,000 FEMA workers, but instead we are invited to focus on one
so-called intermittent employee in Florida whose team
encountered what she called political hostility while
canvassing door to door for FEMA in Florida. Thereupon, as I
understand it, she made the judgment that her workers were
unsafe, and she issued the order to her team not to go to any
more houses in the neighborhood where there were Trump signs
planted in the yard. This was a bad mistake, legally and
constitutionally, which violated the core mission of FEMA and
every Federal agency to work on behalf of all Americans. It is
plainly wrong and divisive to use a Presidential campaign lawn
sign as a proxy for someone's dangerousness.
The Director of FEMA, who is with us today, Ms. Criswell,
properly acted immediately within 36 hours of learning of the
incident because this action was an egregious departure from
the norms of nonpartisanship which must govern the conduct and
the work of the Federal workforce. Federal workers have a duty
to serve all Americans, regardless of their political
identification. FEMA's prompt and unequivocal personnel action
in this case is powerful evidence that the civil service system
is working not only to deliver quality public service, but also
to correct employee errors and ensure that the people whose
homes were skipped, as in this case, receive outreach and
assistance. And I understand that there were 20 homes that were
skipped and then they were immediately addressed afterwards,
but I want to ask about that.
Now, none of this is to deny for a moment that in recent
months, FEMA aid workers have been forced to work under a cloud
of propaganda and lies concocted to erode public trust in FEMA.
Because of this disinformation, many victims of hurricanes have
rejected Federal assistance, and others have even harassed and
threatened FEMA workers. As Republican Congressman Chuck
Edwards, who represents Asheville, North Carolina, said, all
the misinformation has been ``not just unhelpful, but it has
been harmful.'' I agree with my Republican colleagues and
Administrator Criswell. Federal agencies must serve all
Americans, and that means the Federal workforce of nonpartisan
professionals hired based on competence and merit. What is true
of FEMA canvassers is of course true of the rest of the
government. We need government for all the people, regardless
of political viewpoint.
President-elect Trump has promised to be a President for
all Americans, and I hope he delivers on that, and if he falls
short of it, I trust all my colleagues will hold him to it. In
his first administration, President Trump all too often
deliberately directed disaster aid based on the party politics
of local leadership and past electoral performance, not the
needs of the community and disaster survivors. In 2017, his
Administration denied 99 percent of the aid that North
Carolina's Democratic Governor requested as part of cleanup
efforts after Hurricane Matthew. Also, in 2017 after Hurricane
Maria, President Trump blocked the full release of emergency
assistance to Puerto Rico that was appropriated by us in
Congress due to his unfounded belief that the destruction and
death toll had been inflated to make him look bad. In 2018,
after California suffered the deadliest and most destructive
wildfire in its history, President Trump initially refused to
approve disaster aid because of the state's liberal Democratic
leanings. He reportedly later changed his mind after his staff
provided him data showing that there were more Trump voters in
Orange County, California than there were in the entire state
of Iowa.
Now is the right time for all of us, Mr. Chairman, and I
mean this, for all of us to agree that nobody in public office,
no matter how high nor how low, should play partisan politics
with disaster relief in the age of climate change. Thank you
for convening today's hearing so we can stand together and
reaffirm our commitment to the idea that government exists to
serve all of our citizens and to commend the devoted Federal
workers who work day in and day out to serve all of our people.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. Without
objection, Representative Steube of Florida and Representative
McCormick of Georgia are waived onto the Committee for the
purpose of questioning the witness at today's hearing.
I am pleased now to introduce today's witness. Ms. Deanne
Criswell has served as Administrator of the Federal Emergency
Management Agency since 2021. She has spent much of her career
in emergency management, having previously served as
Commissioner of the New York City Emergency Management
Department, as well as previous positions within FEMA, serving
as leader of the Agency's National Incident Management
Assistant Teams and as a Federal coordinating officer. Ms.
Criswell served 21 years in the Colorado Air National Guard and
is the veteran of two overseas tours.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witness will please
stand and raise her right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are
about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but
the truth, so help you, God?
Administrator Criswell. I do.
Chairman Comer. Let the record show that the witness
answered in the affirmative. Thank you very much. We appreciate
you being here today and look very forward to your testimony.
Let me remind the witness that we have read your written
statement and it will appear in the record. Please limit your
oral statement to 5 minutes, but obviously you can speak
whatever you need to say. We want to hear it. As a reminder,
please press the button on the microphone in front of you so
that is on and the Members can hear you. When you begin to
speak, the light in front of you will turn green. After 4
minutes, it will turn yellow. When the red light comes on, your
5 minutes have expired, and we will ask that you try to wrap it
up at that point.
I now recognize the Administrator for her opening
statement.
STATEMENT OF DEANNE CRISWELL
ADMINISTRATOR
FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY
Administrator Criswell. Thank you. Chairman Comer, Ranking
Member Raskin, and Members of the Committee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify regarding FEMA's efforts in response to
Hurricanes Helene and Milton. We value this Committee's
legislative support and oversight of our Agency, and I look
forward to our conversation today.
On September 26, Hurricane Helene made landfall in Florida
as a powerful and a fast-moving Category 4 storm with
hurricane-force winds extending 40 miles and tropical storm
force winds extending 310 miles from its center. Helene then
entered Georgia as a Category 2 hurricane before becoming a
powerful tropical storm that continued to release historic
rainfall over already saturated soils as it marched through
South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia. There
were also impacts in West Virginia and Kentucky. Helene's
powerful winds and flood waters altered landscapes and
devastated communities in many places not accustomed to
experiencing such storms. The destruction caused by Helene was
catastrophic.
Less than 2 weeks later, Hurricane Milton rapidly
intensified into a Category 5 storm in the Gulf of Mexico.
After making landfall in Florida as a Category 3, it moved
across the state into the Atlantic, spurring the formation of
tornadoes and leaving an overlapping trail of destruction in
many communities still reeling from Hurricane Helene. Many of
these same communities were still recovering from Hurricane
Ian, Hurricane Idalia, and Hurricane Debbie, and our hearts
have been heavy with the stories of the survivors we have
encountered and talked to, people who have lost their loved
ones, their homes, and their businesses. These two catastrophic
storms led to the loss of over 200 lives and caused extensive
damages to homes and neighborhoods across the impacted states.
There was also widespread disruption of critical services
across Southeastern United States, including the obstruction of
transportation routes which isolated many homes and
communities.
FEMA's mission statement is a simple one spelled out in
seven powerful words: helping people before, during, and after
disasters. And in my written testimony, I have provided a
detailed account of FEMA's preparation, our pre-positioning of
assets and personnel, and our coordination with other Federal
agencies in support of our state, our local, and our tribal
partners. I have described in detail how FEMA responded to
these two storms across eight states, mobilizing the full
weight of the Federal Government to help in impacted areas that
were not accustomed to this kind of disaster, prioritizing
search and rescue efforts, reopening roads to reconnect hard-
to-reach areas, delivering essential food, water, and other
supplies to residents, and restoring critical infrastructure.
And I have described how FEMA is leading recovery efforts in
these impacted states, doing everything we can to cut through
red tape and expedite assistance to survivors.
This has been a challenging time for our workforce of over
22,000 dedicated, hardworking people, many of whom were
impacted by the storms themselves and delayed their personal
and family recovery to meet our mission needs and respond to
the disaster. Our workforce persevered through all of these
challenges that I have just described, and they also persevered
through a difficult security environment generated by
misinformation about FEMA's work, which was spread through
social media. Our goal is to help all people obtain all of the
assistance that they need and that they are eligible for under
the law, and any of the assistance and any misinformation that
was out there was making this much more difficult for them to
get this needed assistance. I greatly appreciate the voices and
the support from Congress from both sides of the aisle during
this event who attested to the work that FEMA was doing on the
ground.
So, I was very concerned when I learned a FEMA employee had
given instructions to a Disaster Survivor Assistance Team that
were completely at odds with FEMA's mission. A critical
function of these teams is to go door-to-door to meet with
disaster survivors, to make them aware of FEMA programs that
are available for them, and to help them register for needed
assistance. This employee wrote to about 11 staff members under
her supervision that they should ``avoid homes advertising
Trump.'' My senior leadership team provided me with this visual
evidence that the employee had, in fact, issued these
instructions and they recommended that this employee be
terminated, and I concurred and directed the termination of
this employee. I released a statement that day, and I will
repeat what I said to all of my employees and the American
people: this type of behavior and action will not be tolerated
at FEMA, and we will hold all people accountable if they
violate our standards of conduct. I do not believe that this
employee's actions are indicative of any widespread cultural
problems at FEMA. FEMA, however, has taken appropriate action
to ensure this matter is fully investigated, and I am committed
to ensuring that nothing like this ever happens again. In the
meantime, we have sent a new team to the field to contact all
of the homes that had been skipped over at this employee's
direction, and that work has been completed.
Now, I know that this incident is on the minds of many
members of this Committee and across America, and I will be
happy to answer your questions on it. However, I also hope that
we will be able to have a chance to discuss the great work that
our workforce has been doing in response to hurricanes Helene
and Milton, as well as the important challenges that lie ahead
in the recovery effort.
Thank you again for this opportunity to testify, Chairman.
I look forward to your questions.
Chairman Comer. Thank you very much. We will now begin with
questions, and the Chair recognizes first the Member on ground
zero of the last hurricane, Dr. Foxx from North Carolina.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I want to
associate myself with your opening statement. Also, I want to
thank the thousands of Americans who responded to the
destruction of Helene in the North Carolina mountains by
donating everything you can imagine to people there. Many
tractor trailers of goods came from all over America. This
response was wonderfully overwhelming. Unfortunately, our
government agencies have not matched the care and compassion of
average Americans.
Ms. Criswell, I have the mission statement for FEMA here
because I looked at it and saw what you have said in terms of
saying that the mission statement is to help people before,
during, and after disasters in every form. But I think one of
the biggest problems that I recognized while being on the
ground for 6 weeks minimum helping people--I was there. My area
was very hard hit with the hurricane. But what I saw is
constituents affected by the storm is how FEMA's
representatives on the ground are telling people what the
Agency cannot do rather than what it can do. And you mentioned
that you were bringing the entire weight of the Federal
Government there, and I think that FEMA has fallen way short of
that, and that is what I am going to talk a little bit about
today.
Again, FEMA's entire mission is to assist ``before, during,
and after disasters.'' It should not be up to disaster
survivors to navigate the bureaucratic labyrinth in their time
of need. FEMA appears to be plagued by poor decisionmaking and
a serious lack of communication. Therefore, I think FEMA is not
living up to its mission statement, a telling sign of
mismanagement. And I want to say that I am the kind of person
who believes government of the people, by the people, and for
the people, and I tolerate no discrimination of any kind. There
should be an information road map available to those affected
by disasters, including what they can expect from FEMA.
You started out by giving us figures about what happened
and a description of what happened. We all know that. And in
every meeting I have had with FEMA, either on the phone or in
person, we get this litany of things that FEMA has done, how
much money it has spent, but when you really get down to the
nitty-gritty, you cannot get any details. What that road map
should include is how much, what kind of aid they can expect to
receive, a timeline for aid, information on all available
assistance--the total Federal Government, as you said, which we
do not get--what types of decisions will have to be made in the
coming weeks, months, and years. So, does FEMA have this road
map, and if so, how is it communicated to people on the ground?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman Foxx, I completely
agree that our programs can be very complicated, and I have
worked hard over the last 3-and-a-half years to try to minimize
the bureaucracy and make it easier for people to gain access to
our program.
Ms. Foxx. So, why are you unable to provide the basic
information to those suffering from disasters in a timely
fashion?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we do have
information that we give out to individuals that have been
impacted by communities. We have several ways that they can
reach out to us, but my direction has always been to try to
meet people where they are, which is why we go into the
communities and talk to people. We call them back if they have
registered and they have been denied.
Ms. Foxx. I was in the meeting with 20 homeowners who live
really close to where I live, the other day, and again, the
first 30 minutes of the FEMA presentation was all bragging
about what FEMA did. It is not providing basic information. If
it is not doing that, how can it claim to be committed to
helping people where they are?
Administrator Criswell. I am happy to look at the
information and the materials that were presented at your
meeting and look for ways to improve them. Our goal should be
to try to tell people how we can help them instead of telling
them what we cannot do, and I have tried and worked to try to
change that focus or that the way we approach reaching out to
people and finding ways to get to yes.
Ms. Foxx. One of my colleagues recently asked FEMA where
approximately 400 trailers full of supplies and aid were
allegedly delivered in Western North Carolina in the days after
Hurricane Helene hit. He was told that the trailers were
delivered to the state emergency management headquarters, but
they also could not share where the aid, estimated to be worth
between $4 million and $10 million, was actually located. Is it
correct that FEMA delivered aid to the state then simply
absolved itself from ensuring the aid actually reached the
people it was intended to help?
Administrator Criswell. This is a partnership. Our ability
to respond to communities requires a deep collaboration between
Federal, state, and local partners. FEMA delivers supplies at
the request of the state in the amount that they have
requested, and the state prioritizes, in consultation with
their local jurisdictions, on where those supplies need to go.
Ms. Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will have several
questions to submit for the record.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back. The
Chair recognizes Mr. Frost from Florida.
Mr. Frost. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. So, in my
district, which was impacted by Hurricane Milton--I live in
Orlando, Florida--I have been dealing with natural disasters
and hurricanes my entire life. I have heard nothing but praise
for FEMA's sense of urgency and how you all have responded in
the last many storms we have had. Since Hurricane Milton, many
of my constituents have opened up case work with my office to
help get FEMA assistance. My team and yours have worked hand-
in-hand to solve these problems, regardless of their political
affiliation or their voting record. So, just thank you for your
hard work, and thank you to the hard work of all of the members
of FEMA and staff who are fighting to ensure that people are
safe and that we can recover after these horrible disasters.
The individual responsible for the instruction that FEMA
workers can avoid houses with Trump flags was fired. That is
good, and thank you for handling that quite isolated situation.
I do, though, however, have to call out the hypocrisy of many
Members of this Committee. Madam Administrator, according to
staff on President-elect Trump's former National Security
Council, on at least three occasions, the President-elect
hesitated to give disaster aid to areas he thought were too
Democratic, like California, after the 2018 wildfires. If
President Trump were to engage in partisan discrimination, how
could that impact Americans, the economy, the environment, and
also taxpayers in general?
Administrator Criswell. The severe weather events that we
have been experiencing and the increase in them, they do not
discriminate. They impact all people across all walks of life
in every part of this country, and we have seen a continued
increase in the number of those events affecting more
Americans. We have to maintain our ability to be a non-partisan
Agency so we can ensure that everybody impacted by these events
can get the resources and the help that they need, that they
deserve and that they are eligible for under the law.
Mr. Frost. According to reports, Trump only agreed to
release aid when his staff pulled voting results to show him
that the heavily damaged area of Orange County, California had
more Trump supporters than the entire state of Iowa.
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a Politico
from October 2024 titled, ``Trump Refused to Give California
Wildfire Aid Until Told How Many People There Voted for Himn,
Ex-Aide Says.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Frost. In the FEMA chapter, Project 2025, the blueprint
for the Trump Administration, on the FEMA section, it said,
``They need to shift the majority of preparedness and response
costs to states and localities instead of the Federal
Government.'' This would be devastating for Floridians. We know
these storms are happening more often because of the climate
crisis. I have heard directly from scientists and
meteorologists who fly into these storms, after I flew into one
with the hurricane hunters, that they are going through more of
these. They are seeing the worst storms they have ever seen in
their careers. These are folks who have been doing this work
since the 1980's. Madam Administrator, how would this proposal
impact the safety of folks like my constituents in Central
Florida who are getting hit year after year with these once-in-
100-year hurricanes?
Administrator Criswell. The ability for these communities
to rebuild after these events is extremely critical. Without
them being able to rebuild, but also rebuild to a level that
makes them more resilient against future events, is going to
really impact their ability to recover. And so, what I have
seen through my time as a local emergency manager as well as
serving in this role, that the biggest limitation and the
reason we have Presidential declarations is when it exceeds the
capacity of a jurisdiction to be able to rebuild and allow
their community to recover, then it will only make it more
vulnerable to future disasters.
Mr. Frost. After Hurricane Helene, President-elect Trump
spread a ton of disinformation about FEMA assistance. Even like
me, some of my Republican colleagues representing areas
actually impacted from the storm, like Sir Edwards from North
Carolina, we have had to expend significant amount of resources
to fight these lies. During these hurricanes, in the days
leading up, I spent a lot of time in all the EOCs that are in
my district. I spent time going to the shelters and speaking
with people, and I cannot tell you the amount of folks who came
up to me in these shelters asking the most ridiculous questions
based on what they heard from Donald Trump. And we know that in
these emergencies, every second matter, every minute matters in
terms of life or death. Does FEMA have the tools and
partnerships it needs to fully combat the disinformation we
have seen from certain politicians?
Administrator Criswell. We continue to see the amount of
misinformation around all disasters increase month after month,
and what we saw during Hurricane Helene was certainly at a
scale that I had never seen before.
Mr. Frost. And how does this disinformation prevent you all
or affect you all in being able to do the lifesaving work that
you do and impact assistance delivery?
Administrator Criswell. I think the biggest impact is that
it makes individuals that have perhaps lost everything
concerned about whether they should come to us for assistance,
and then they cannot start their recovery process if they do
not enter the system to get the resources that they are
eligible for.
Mr. Frost. My hope is that over the next 4 years, President
Trump will not do the same things again, which puts American
lives at risk. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Donalds from
Florida.
Mr. Donalds. Thank you, Chairman. Administrator Criswell,
it is good to see you. My district was hit by Hurricane Ian 2
years ago, so we were devastated like so many other communities
were devastated like by Helene and by Hurricane Milton. My
question for you actually surrounds the firing of Ms.
Washington. She had given multiple interviews where she claimed
that avoiding politically hostile homes is commonplace
throughout FEMA. Is this a practice at FEMA?
Administrator Criswell. Congressman, there is nothing in
any of our policies, our training, or our information sent out
to our field workers to avoid any home for whatever reason,
especially not because of a political affiliation. The actions
of this one individual are not representative of the work that
we do at FEMA.
Mr. Donalds. Now, Administrator, I got an issue because,
and I will submit the article for the record. According to a
New York Post article, titled, ``This is Not Isolated,'' there
is a FEMA official who spoke under the condition of anonymity,
who says that the Agency's practice of skipping Trump-supported
houses or avoiding white or conservative-dominated disaster
zones altogether is an open secret at the Agency and has been
going on for years. So, Ambassador [sic], this is a statement
given to the Post by an employee at FEMA. What is your response
to that statement?
Administrator Criswell. We have investigated this incident,
and it is still under investigation. We are working with the
Inspector General to determine whether or not this is broader
than this, but the evidence that I have seen so far shows that
this was an isolated incident, and it has not gone beyond what
this one employee did.
Mr. Donalds. So, a follow-up question to that, has FEMA
finished its investigation into this matter?
Administrator Criswell. No, we have not finished our
investigation. We have been working with the Office of the
Inspector General. It was also referred to the Office of
Special Counsel for a potential violation of the Hatch Act, and
I have asked the Inspector General to do a full review of this
incident.
Mr. Donalds. So, Administrator Criswell, you told me at the
beginning of this questioning that there is nothing in your
policies that would dictate that this is to occur, yet you have
one official who was fired who said it does occur. You have
another official under your purview, under the condition of
anonymity, talking to the press, that it does occur, but you
cannot verify to this Committee that these practices do or do
not occur. Is that correct?
Administrator Criswell. I have been given no evidence and
seen no indication that this goes beyond this one incident. If
you have specific information, I would welcome that.
Mr. Donalds. Are you prepared to turn over the communiques
between your supervisors and their field representatives and
upper-level management at FEMA to this Committee?
Administrator Criswell. We always cooperate with Congress
on the information that they request, and we will continue to
cooperate throughout this.
Mr. Donalds. So, you are prepared to turn over all those
communications?
Administrator Criswell. We are prepared to support requests
for information to help support the ongoing investigation into
this.
Mr. Donalds. Chairman, I would move that it is clear that
the Administrator is more than prepared to share all
communications with the Oversight Committee about various
communications with field volunteers, volunteer staff on the
ground, supervisors at FEMA headquarters here in Washington,
DC. Also, for the record, Chairman, I move that the article
that I talked about, ``This is Not an Isolated Incident,'' be
submitted for the record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Donalds. Administrator, I want to follow up with one
point. It was said later in this article, ``FEMA employees are
trained to deal with threats and disasters,'' and I think it is
important for the Committee to understand that when you are on
the ground dealing with threats, especially in a disaster area,
it is important. Administrator, do you think it is a better
course of action for law enforcement to be involved when
potential threats occur on the ground because, look, during
Hurricane Ian, we understood that you not only had citizens who
were trying to protect their homes from looters, and they are
concerned, you have looters who are actively trying to get at
people's property in a disaster zone. But apparently, it
appears that you have employees, whether you know or not, who
are trying to take matters into their own hands. So, wouldn't
it be a better course of action to involve law enforcement who
is on the ground in a prolific manner? And it is not just local
law enforcement. I know from personal experience, it is other
law enforcement agencies that are on the ground in support to
neighboring communities. Would you agree with that?
Administrator Criswell. Congressman, we have seen an
increase in the amount of harassment during the response to
hurricanes Helene and Milton. We have been closely coordinating
with law enforcement in all of the states that have been
impacted, in particular in North Carolina where we had several
reports of harassment and potential threats to our employees.
Mr. Donalds. OK. Fair enough. What I would also let the
Committee know, as somebody who had to deal with this
firsthand, it is important for citizens to understand that it
is very difficult to go through the FEMA protocols. We have had
many amounts of citizens who applied for direct assistance,
were denied, and they had to work through my office to do that.
I am quite sure my colleagues who have had to deal with FEMA
have dealt with this firsthand. I would really call on FEMA,
whether it is this Administration or the next, that they need
to clean this process up because the No. 1 thing that hurts
FEMA's reputation is the fact that so many citizens are denied
when they apply, the first time they come through the FEMA
portal. And if they have to go through congressional offices to
get help, and trust me, me and my colleagues, we will do
everything for our citizens. But if that is going to be the
protocol for how citizens get help from the Emergency
Management Agency, then it needs to be completely revamped. I
yield.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Criswell, thank
you for your testimony. Can you explain what the role of a
door-to-door canvas is by FEMA during our hurricane recovery?
Administrator Criswell. These are, Ranking Member, our
Disaster Survivor Assistance teams. These are groups of
individuals that go out into communities to either see if they
have registered for assistance, check on their case for them,
or also identify if they have any other needs that we need to
engage our nonprofit partners that might be in the area, like
assistance with mucking and gutting their home, and we can
relay that information back to the local emergency manager or
back to the state to make sure we are meeting all of their
needs.
Mr. Raskin. And this is a situation where there may be a
complete communications breakdown because of the hurricane
itself, right?
Administrator Criswell. That is part of the reason we do
this. It is because we know, and especially during these
incidents, we saw limited cellular communication availability.
They could not get online to register for assistance, they
could not call us, and so we sent people out to go knock on
their door and see if they have had that opportunity yet.
Mr. Raskin. How many doors would you have knocked on during
hurricanes Helene and Milton?
Administrator Criswell. Tens of thousands, I would have to
get you the exact number.
Mr. Raskin. OK. And hundreds of people would have been
involved in the effort?
Administrator Criswell. Yes.
Mr. Raskin. OK. So, it has been reported that there were
unprecedented levels of harassment and threats leveled against
FEMA workers, both the full-time workers and then intermittent
part-time workers and volunteers who came along. Do you have
any sense of where this harassment and where these threats were
coming from? What were the things being said that would lead
people to attack FEMA workers?
Administrator Criswell. We have seen, over my last few
years in this position, but even as my time as a local
emergency manager, we have seen the amount of information being
spread that is just inaccurate--about FEMA programs, about FEMA
policies--continue to increase. We saw a big jump during Maui.
We saw an even larger increase, and again, on a scale that I
have not seen, during Hurricanes Helene and Milton, primarily
being spread through social media channels.
Mr. Raskin. And have you undertaken any efforts to combat
that disinformation?
Administrator Criswell. So, we do a number of things. We
have an entire team of public affairs and external affairs
experts that help us try to put positive information, correct
information out. We establish a page, it is a standing practice
for us to establish a rumor control page, that we have done for
many years through many administrations, to put accurate
information about the programs that FEMA is offering and the
assistance that is available.
We also reach out to the community. For example, in North
Carolina, right now, we are hiring community liaisons, people
from the community that can help be a bridge between us and the
people in their community to build that trust, make sure people
are getting everything that they need, but also to let us know
what kind of information or what kind of resources they may
still need.
Mr. Raskin. The employee who was fired by you, a day or a
day and a half after you learned of what had happened, was an
intermittent employee, a part-time employee who may or may not
have been trained on the proper protocols of FEMA. But what do
you tell your workers to do if in fact they are harassed or
attacked at the doors, going door to door, offering people
assistance?
Administrator Criswell. Again, we have people that go into
communities that have just been impacted by significant weather
events and meeting people on their worst day. And people are,
you know, angry and they are upset because of what happened to
them. And so, we often have people that feel that they may be
in an unsafe situation, and so we train them to be able to
remove themselves from that situation reactively. We never have
done anything to teach our employees to proactively avoid an
area where they feel they might be threatened.
Mr. Raskin. OK. And just to restate the obvious, if this is
correct, you have no policies or rules counseling people to
engage in political party or candidate discrimination. Is that
right?
Administrator Criswell. We have no policy, no doctrine, no
rule, anything to that matter.
Mr. Raskin. OK. And that is why you acted so swiftly to
deal with that situation when it arose?
Administrator Criswell. I learned of this on November 7,
that there was an alleged claim that an employee had done this.
I directed my team to be able to look into it and provide me
information. They showed me the evidence on November 9, which
is when I directed the termination of the employee.
Mr. Raskin. And I understand that FEMA itself is
investigating to get all of the facts of the matter. Do you
also support an investigation by the Inspector General at FEMA?
Administrator Criswell. I have already requested an
investigation to the IG.
Mr. Raskin. OK. Well, look, on behalf of the family that
stayed with me after the hurricane hit Asheville, North
Carolina, and other friends who were affected, I want to thank
FEMA for doing your very best on behalf of the American people
and mobilizing a strong relief effort, not perfect, none of
them are, but certainly a very serious attempt to address all
of the needs that arose.
I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mrs. Luna, from
Florida.
Mrs. Luna. Administrator Criswell, nice to see you again.
Up here. Sorry.
Administrator Criswell. Yes.
Mrs. Luna. Yes, thanks. You came to my district when we
were impacted. Before I get to some questions that I have from
my constituents, I did have a question in regard to the
investigations that you have into Marni Washington. So, she
went on CNN, and she had stated that under the practice of
avoidance and de-escalation, that was what she was using, what
her supervisor was using, in order to politically discriminate.
My question for you, she also had stated that her supervisor,
Chad Hershey, had directed her not to help politically hostile
Americans, a/k/a, anyone who, in their opinion, had Trump
signs. My question for you is, were you aware of that, and has
Chad Hershey been fired, or is he under investigation
currently?
Administrator Criswell. I understand that Mr. Hershey was
in her supervisory chain, but that is part of now the ongoing
investigation.
Mrs. Luna. If you find that he directed her to, and I
assume that you guys will be talking with her directly, but if
you find that, are you committing that he is going to be fired?
Administrator Criswell. I will commit that anybody who has
taken actions to politically discriminate against people that
were impacted by this disaster will have the appropriate
disciplinary action to include termination.
Mrs. Luna. OK. And then she also had stated on that same
interview that this was not just isolated in Florida, but under
that same de-escalation and avoidance guideline from your field
manual, that it also happened in North Carolina and Georgia.
Are you aware of this, and in your estimates, roughly how many
people have been impacted? She also stated that there should be
incidence reports in regard to FEMA, that we should request
them, but I assume that you are looking into that, so if you
can just follow up on that?
Administrator Criswell. Yes, we will certainly follow up on
that, but again, our policies nowhere talk about proactively
discriminating against areas where they feel that there might
be something harassing----
Mrs. Luna. Tracking. Sorry, I just have to move on, because
we have time here. My next question is that, in regard to your
investigation, Marni Washington stated that after she was
terminated, that she still had access to her portals and the
cases that she had filed, and because of that, she was actually
able to see that FEMA was going through and deleting
information in regard to the cases that she had specifically
handled. Now, I understand that when people leave, sometimes
things have to be terminated, but if you do have an ongoing
investigation, my question is, why would you then want to
delete information because then you would not be able to
adequately conduct a conclusive investigation?
Administrator Criswell. I have no information that we have
deleted anything, as stated by Ms. Washington. Even if
something was deleted, it is all part of a permanent record,
and we have access to it.
Mrs. Luna. OK. Then I would advise, if you are tracking
that, you should go because she is saying that she physically
saw that information was deleted out within 24 hours of her
firing. I have one more question, but I am going to get to some
constituent questions, so please answer these quickly. Pinellas
and Pinellas County, where we were hit, we had actually 13
deaths during the first hurricane, but the county has currently
had only one DRC and has requested a second DRC with no
success. What is FEMA's process for approving additional DRCs
when they are requested?
Administrator Criswell. We work closely with the state
director of emergency management and the county to determine
the best place for those. I can follow up with your staff on
specifically why we have not put a second one.
Mrs. Luna. OK. And we are requesting additional help just
because of the amount of claims that we have for that area, so
we are going to be following up. Please assist with getting us
that additional. The second thing is, what is the status of
FEMA's Flood Mitigation Assistance Program?
Administrator Criswell. The NFIP program has seen a
significant amount of claims as a result of Hurricanes Helene
and Hurricane Milton. As you will see in the supplemental
request, we are asking for debt relief for the National Flood
Insurance Program so we can continue to pay on those claims. To
date, I believe the number is somewhere over $800 million that
we have paid out in response to Hurricanes Helene and Milton,
but we will quickly run out of funding from that fund without
the debt relief, and we will have to go to the Treasury and ask
for additional funding to pay those claims.
Mrs. Luna. OK. So, if you get that funding, you guys will
be able to essentially ensure that recovery and resiliency
grants for all the counties impacted will be received? If you
get the money?
Administrator Criswell. For claims against the NFIP----
Mrs. Luna. Correct.
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. With the debt
forgiveness, we can pay those claims.
Mrs. Luna. OK. My last question for you is, in regards to
community trends, Marni Washington had alleged that that was
what was put into a system that would mitigate these
interactions if they felt that it was dangerous and these
communities, a lot of them were conservative and Trump
supporters, that they felt that FEMA had created an environment
that had stated that those people made them feel uncomfortable,
and that was the reasoning for them passing over these homes,
what can you tell me about community trends in regards to this
allegation that she made?
Administrator Criswell. Our Disaster Survivor Assistance
teams, part of what they do is go out into the community to
understand what the impacts are and to understand what the
survivor needs are. This is often called community trends, but
things that we are looking at are impacts to access, roads that
are out, water infrastructure, needs of the community--like,
many places around South Carolina required oxygen bottles----
Mrs. Luna. If I can just interrupt you real quick. How many
people have been impacted by avoidance and de-escalation? Do
you have a number for that, just nationally, or is there a data
base for that?
Administrator Criswell. I can tell you that for this
particular incident at the direction of our employee, 20 homes
were skipped.
Mrs. Luna. OK. All right. Thank you for your time.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair
recognize Mr. Moskowitz from Florida.
Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
holding this hearing. Administrator Criswell, good to be with
you. You know, as the only Member in Congress who has run a
disaster response, run a disaster recovery, handed out billions
of dollars of FEMA money, also a Democrat who worked in a
Republican Administration and ran the recovery efforts for
Hurricane Michael in deeply Republican areas of the Panhandle,
I can tell you, not once did I ever think about their politics
or my politics. As I toured the Panhandle in Neal Dunn's
district or Matt Gaetz's district, I looked at people as
Americans who were hit by a disaster, and my job was to get
them every program that FEMA had, every dollar available to
them. That was my job.
What happened in Florida in this instance is deeply
disturbing. It is unacceptable. I know you know that. Disaster
aid should never be declined based on support of any political
candidate, and I am happy this rogue employee was fired. You
did the right thing immediately, right? What should have
happened here is, if there were members of FEMA's team that
felt uncomfortable, that should have been passed up to the FCO,
that should have gone to the Federal Coordinating Officer, and
then that information should have gone to Director Guthrie, who
is the Director of Emergency Management in the state of
Florida, my former deputy, and then they could have made sure
to identify those homes and gotten them the information, but
that is not what happened. There was a clear breakdown here,
and so you should do an investigation to make sure that
something like this does not happen again.
Every emergency manager in the country during COVID,
yourself included, I am sure, was worried about the politics of
disaster aid changing. We saw it happening in real time, and we
were really worried, you know, about how that would go into
future disasters. As the world is becoming more partisan, the
world is becoming more divided--you are seeing it here in the
country--we were hoping that disasters, there would be a force
field around FEMA, but that is not the case. I know the people
at FEMA are exhausted, OK? Talent is retiring. They have a
rotating door because of the burnout rate from disasters. That
is not just in this Administration. I talked to the previous
two Administrators during Donald Trump's Administration, and it
was the same problem because of all the disasters that are
happening and the burnout rate that exists. My own agency lost
200 people after COVID because they were burned out.
Every problem that my colleagues brought up--and they are
right. Chairwoman Foxx is right. Anna Paulina Luna is right.
All of the problems that they brought up with FEMA, those
issues about programs and being denied, this is not new. This
has been going on for a while. It happened in the Trump
Administration, right, because here is one of the things that I
am going to say, is that no FEMA Administrator will tell you
while they are FEMA Administrator, but the last two Trump
Administrators will tell you, previous Administrators will tell
you when they leave the job, is that Homeland has become too
big. It has become too big. I got to work with Joe Lieberman.
The idea of Homeland was a great idea. It is still a good idea,
but never did anyone envision that the bureaucracy would become
too big. FEMA cannot make the changes you want them to make.
Whether it is Ms. Criswell or the next Administrator that Trump
appoints, they cannot. Homeland will not let them because there
are 30 people around a table, right? Trying to figure out what
to do in the Agency. So, for the people at DOGE, if Vivek and
Elon are listening, you need to look at Homeland. You have got
problems at Secret Service. Guess where that is? Homeland.
And so, what I am saying is, is that do not look at
Administrator Criswell or this FEMA Administration, or in this
Biden Administration, if you think there are issues in FEMA
that you want to fix. I am letting you know these issues go
back decades. They are not new. They are not. And so, I do want
to say one more thing because I think it is tremendously
important for my colleagues across the aisle and my Democratic
colleagues, it is so important that we do not allow FEMA to
become politicized, and that we do not allow disaster aid to
become politicized. Laser beams do not start fires in
California. We cannot guide where hurricanes go. And you know
what? You know who is amplifying that stuff? Foreign accounts.
Other countries are amplifying that stuff on social media to
divide us, to divide Democrats and Republicans. They want us
fighting over disaster aid because it helps their goal. We
cannot participate in that. We should not amplify that. So, Mr.
Chairman, I thank you for having this hearing. We should have
this hearing, but I want you to know that these issues that you
are bringing up are not issues of today. These are issues of
yesteryear, and so I will work with anyone across the aisle on
fixing these issues within Homeland. And with that, Mr.
Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Jordan.
Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Administrator
Criswell, is Ms. Washington lying to us?
Administrator Criswell. Ms. Washington has----
Mr. Jordan. She said it is common practice. You said it is
reprehensible and isolated. Both statements cannot be true, so
someone is not giving us the facts, and I am kind of trying to
figure out who is not telling the truth.
Administrator Criswell. The actions that Ms. Washington
took were unacceptable.
Mr. Jordan. Well, you had another employee--now, they
remain anonymous, but I think one of my colleagues pointed this
out earlier--FEMA official who spoke on condition of anonymity
said Ms. Washington likely received ``very clear guidance from
her supervisors.'' Is that person lying, too?
Administrator Criswell. I have not received any evidence
outside of the screenshot that Ms. Washington directed to her
team.
Mr. Jordan. So those two people are wrong? They are not
telling the truth, too?
Administrator Criswell. We are currently investigating this
issue and bringing in the IG.
Mr. Jordan. But that is not what you said. You said this is
isolated, reprehensible, has not happened, this is the only
time, and they are saying, nope, nope, nope, it is commonplace.
Administrator Criswell. I am saying that FEMA's mission is
to help all people, before, during, and after disaster.
Mr. Jordan. Maybe the best evidence we have is the actual
screenshot. Can you put the screenshot up on the screen?
[Photo]
Mr. Jordan. Let us look at what the text message said. The
text message said, ``Implement best practices,'' like this is
the best practices, we are going to implement them, and they
talk about making sure you are going in pairs or with more than
one person, avoid the Trump homes, drink your water, take your
towel, coconut waters. So, stay hydrated, walk with someone
else, and do not go to the Trump homes. It seems pretty common
and matter of fact in the actual evidence we do have the text
message itself. But you are still saying Ms. Washington and
this other person are not telling the truth.
Administrator Criswell. When I received this text message,
it was not in accordance with the way we conduct business at
FEMA, and I directed her termination.
Mr. Jordan. Even though it said best practices, even though
it said stay hydrated, which everyone would agree with, even
though it said go in pairs, which everyone would agree with,
even though it said bring a towel, make sure you are covered. I
mean, it said coconut water is the best way to stay hydrated.
Even though it said all those practical things, the part about
avoiding the Trump homes, that is not a best practice. That is
not commonplace. Is that what you are saying?
Administrator Criswell. That is nowhere in our policy, and
I cannot speak to motivations behind----
Mr. Jordan. I am not saying that your policy, but it was--
--
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. What Ms. Washington
did.
Mr. Jordan. OK. Now, and her supervisor, Mr. Hershey, have
you talked to him and to find out if he knew this was
happening?
Administrator Criswell. I understand that he was in her
chain of command, and this is under investigation.
Mr. Jordan. There are 13 people in this text message. Have
you talked to all 13 of those individuals?
Administrator Criswell. This incident is under
investigation. The officer----
Mr. Jordan. That is not what I asked you. I know it is
under investigation. We know how investigations work when it is
done inside the Agency. It takes forever. I am asking did you
talk to the 13 people on this best practices text message?
Administrator Criswell. The Office of Professional
Responsibility has taken this, and they are following
appropriate protocol to investigate.
Mr. Jordan. Is the Inspector General looking at it as well?
Administrator Criswell. And I have asked the Inspector
General to take a look at this. I welcome their review.
Mr. Jordan. Any idea when they are going to talk to these
13 people since you have it? How about you personally? Have you
talked to these 13 people?
Administrator Criswell. I have not talked to them
personally.
Mr. Jordan. You have not talked to them?
Administrator Criswell. I have an entire team that focuses
on this investigation, and that is what they are doing.
Mr. Jordan. Seems to me, it is part of a mindset that is in
government. This is the scary part, because I think it is
broader, and you do not have to take my word, take what people
have said. I mean, this reminds me, we have talked about this
many times, well, actually the same person. Let us go back to
that, the same person who said that this likely received very
clear guidance, this other FEMA official, also said this: ``I
have heard from other entities who are serving in North
Carolina that there was clear guidance to be mindful of the
types of people who are in Western North Carolina.''
Administrator Criswell. I have not seen------
Mr. Jordan. That is pretty derogatory stuff there, isn't
it?
Administrator Criswell. I have not seen any of that.
Mr. Jordan. But you know what it sounds like. It sounds
like Peter Strzok when he said, ``Oh, I just went in the
Walmart. I can smell the Trump supporters.'' Sounds like Joe
Biden when he said, ``Oh, the garbage I see is the Trump
supporters out there.'' Sounds like the guy, the professor, the
Democrats had testified back in 2019 in the impeachment,
``conservatives, especially very conservative people, tend to
spread out, perhaps because they don't even want to be around
themselves.'' This disdain, this mindset that is in the
government where they are, everyone is deplorable, everyone is
garbage, everyone is, you know, smelly people at Walmart and,
oh, be mindful of those people in Western North Carolina. That
is what it sounds like. And again, the best evidence is the
text message we have, which reinforces that mindset that we
have seen from so many people in our government.
Administrator Criswell. The actions directed by Ms.
Washington are unacceptable, and when I received this text
message, I directed her termination.
Mr. Jordan. Do you have any idea who this other official
is? You said----
Administrator Criswell. I do not, and if you have that
information, Congressman, please share it.
Mr. Jordan. Well, I do not have it. You are the one who has
not talked to the 13 people on the text message.
Administrator Criswell. It has not been raised to me.
Mr. Jordan. All right. With that, Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair will now recognize Ms. Norton
from Washington, DC.
Ms. Norton. Administrator Criswell, I understand that in
the weeks since Hurricanes Milton and Helene, FEMA has provided
more than $1.6 billion in assistance to more than 910,000
households. FEMA has also delivered more than 16 million meals,
18 million liters of water, more than 3,000 rows of blue roof
sheeting, and more than 700,000 gallons of fuel to the
communities devastated by these hurricanes, and 500 FEMA
employees remain deployed in these communities to assist with
recovery. Administrator, what steps did FEMA staff take to
contact survivors on the ground, including those displaced from
their homes, and make them aware of the resources available to
them?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, FEMA has many ways
that we can reach and connect with people that have been
impacted by disasters. They can contact us through our 1-800
number. They can go through our disasterassistance.gov website
to register for assistance. They can use the FEMA app. We also
have teams that go out into the communities, especially in
something like North Carolina, where communications were
limited, to make sure that they have had the opportunity to
register for assistance or to check on their case to see what
other information might be needed for them to finish it up and
to process it.
And then we established disaster recovery centers, fixed
facilities, once the infrastructure supports it so people have
a place they can go, and they can talk to somebody face-to-face
and work through their particular needs and their particular
case because we know everybody's situation is going to be
unique to them. And we want to make sure all of our programs
are available, and we help them find the right ones to support
their unique needs.
Ms. Norton. Thank you. The disruption of Hurricane Helene
left close to 4 million people without power. Administrator,
how did FEMA workers reach affected residents for support in
this disaster response effort, even if a certain region lost
connectivity or if a survivor lacked access to internet?
Administrator Criswell. One of the first things we do,
Congresswoman, is we put part of our leadership team in with
local emergency managers to work side-by-side with them to
understand which parts of their communities still need
assistance. Then we can either direct our Disaster Survivor
Assistance teams to go into those areas, or also the state is
sending their resources, like the National Guard. The National
Guard in North Carolina did an amazing job of getting into the
communities and helping people that have been impacted. This is
a holistic effort. This takes all of us to be able to reach all
of those impacted, especially in something that has been
widespread and complicated as the destruction that we saw in
North Carolina.
Ms. Norton. I also want to recognize that because of
challenges like these, it did take too long for emergency
assistance to come in such communities. We must learn the
lessons of those shortcomings to improve the reach of emergency
services at the local, state, and Federal level. Earlier this
year, the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration projected
an ``above normal'' hurricane season, meaning the level and
intensity of storms and hurricanes would increase over this
period. Eleven storms have developed into hurricanes this year.
More than a few years later, the Lahaina community is still
being built back after wildfires hit the land of Maui, and
recovery operations are still continuing more than 2 years
after Hurricane Ian made landfall in Florida. Administrator
Criswell, what can Congress do to make it easier for FEMA to
support long-term recovery efforts and assist with future
disasters that strike the United States?
Administrator Criswell. Congressman, we have two pieces of
bipartisan legislation that would be very beneficial to our
ability to help communities: the Disaster Survivor Fairness Act
and the Management Cost Modernization Act. And I understand
that I am over the time, but I would be happy to talk more
about those two pieces. They would be critical in changing the
way we help survivors.
Ms. Norton. I commend you and FEMA's thousands of staff
from across the country who left their homes to deploy to
communities in need and provide them with assistance in the
face of disruption, trauma, and loss, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Gosar from
Arizona.
Mr. Gosar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just last night, the
White House requested an additional $98.6 billion for disaster
relief with $40 billion marked for FEMA. Although it was
created to provide relief from disasters, FEMA has now become
the Biden-Harris Administration's star student in political
prosecution. In October, FEMA intentionally violated the civil
rights of American citizens in response to Hurricanes Helene
and Milton. This is a key example of the weaponization of the
Federal Government against the American people, and I suspect
there is more for this Committee to uncover. It is critical
that Congress is empowered to conduct rigorous oversight before
any emergency funding has been placed into FEMA's hands. Ms.
Criswell, according to your testimony, FEMA led the interagency
response to Hurricane Helene and Milton for up to 64 different
agencies. Do you think FEMA has the authority to direct these
other agencies to also avoid homes with Trump signs?
Administrator Criswell. There is nothing in FEMA's policy
that would ever direct anybody to avoid anybody regardless of
political affiliation or way of life. Our mission is to help
all people before, during, and after disasters.
Mr. Gosar. Gotcha. Former FEMA employee, Marni Washington,
told reporters this discrimination was a colossal event and
occurred in Florida, North Carolina, and South Carolina. You
justified earlier today at T&I Committee that this was an
isolated incident and that no other supervisor or employee
deployed with Marni Washington provided the guidance to avoid
homes advertising Trump signs. Will you commit to also
requesting an IG report for the discrimination in North
Carolina and South Carolina?
Administrator Criswell. I have already requested the
Inspector General to investigate this, but I will be certain to
ensure that they include North Carolina and South Carolina in
that.
Mr. Gosar. Thank you. An anonymous FEMA employee, we have
been told, I guess it would be from The Daily Signal, that
employees were also advised to avoid certain homes and
specifically use the terms ``hick,'' ``cowboy,'' ``redneck,''
``Trump supporters,'' and ``MAGA'' to describe them. Have you
come across any of these terms in your investigation so far?
Administrator Criswell. This is the first I am ever hearing
any of those terms.
Mr. Gosar. I will make sure you have those. In an interview
with the Washington Examiner, they said these homes were
avoided based on community trends from hostile political
encounters. My question to you is, how does FEMA declare an
incident as a community trend? Is it true that it only takes
one encounter to make a FEMA employee uncomfortable to declare
a community trend?
Administrator Criswell. One of the things that these teams
do, our Disaster Survivor Assistance teams, is they go into the
communities to not only register people for assistance, but to
understand the impacts of the community. They are looking for
things like damages and access issues to transportation
infrastructure. They are looking for damages to water and
power. They are also trying to understand the survivor needs.
These are often referred to as community trends, but these are
used to help us understand the impacts and what resources we
are going to need to bring in. These are not proactive efforts
to try to identify where we should or should not go.
Mr. Gosar. OK. So, my office requested these incident
reports ahead of this hearing, but they were not provided. Can
you please provide this Committee with the incident reports
that determine Lake Placid should be defined as a community
trend?
Administrator Criswell. I would not say that Lake Placid
was defined as a community trend. Again, when we talk about
impacts to a community, we are looking at impacts to that
community and survivor needs.
Mr. Gosar. So, you would provide all the incident reports?
Administrator Criswell. We will work with Congress on the
request for information and provide what you need.
Mr. Gosar. Now, Ms. Criswell, in October you said fighting
this information is a priority for FEMA, including that you
alleged misinformation from President Trump, Elon Musk, and
some of my colleagues about FEMA's responsibility, or lack
thereof, in spending. Is FEMA spending its taxpayer funds
responsibly? Quick question.
Administrator Criswell. Can you repeat that, sir?
Mr. Gosar. Yes. Is FEMA spending its taxpayer funds
responsibly?
Administrator Criswell. We are absolutely spending our
taxpayer dollars responsibly in supporting an unbelievable
increase in the number of severe weather events that have been
happening across the United States.
Mr. Gosar. OK. So that would be a yes. Are you aware of the
OIG's report from March 2023 titled, ``FEMA Should Increase
Oversight to Prevent Misuse Of Humanitarian Relief Funds,''
and/or a second September 2022 OIG report titled, ``FEMA Did
Not Implement Controls to Prevent More Than $3.7 Billion in
Improper Payments From the Lost Wages Assistance Program?''
Administrator Criswell. I am aware of those reports.
Mr. Gosar. And you knew this? And how are you applying that
to this discovery now that you are hearing about Ms. Washington
and possibly other people causing a problem for this?
Administrator Criswell. We value our partnership with the
Inspector General, and we appreciate the findings that they
give us and our areas that we can continue to improve. Some of
those reports and some of the findings in those we non-
concurred with, but for those that we did, we continue to work
with them so we can continue to improve because we are not a
perfect Agency, and we always look to improve the way we help
people.
Mr. Gosar. I do not think anybody is perfect, so thank you.
Appreciate it.
Chairman Comer. The gentlemen, yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Lynch from Massachusetts.
Mr. Lynch. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Welcome, Administrator
Criswell. As evidenced recently by hurricane Helene and Milton
and the catastrophic consequences, we continue to witness
historic flooding that is triggered by extreme weather events.
In our own state of Massachusetts, the National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration has already predicted that my area,
the Boston area, is expected to endure between 12 and 19 days
of high-tide flooding that we have never experienced before.
That is the most in the Northeast region. The non-partisan
congressional Research Service also reports that floods are the
most common and costliest natural disasters across the United
States. However, flood damage is not covered, typically, by
traditional homeowner insurance, and, moreover, most private
insurers do not even offer flood coverage. Instead, as you
know, most of our constituents procure flood insurance for
their homes and businesses from the National Flood Insurance
Program, which you administer. It is a Federal Government
program that provides more than $1.3 trillion in insurance
coverage and 4.7 million policies to residents, mostly in flood
zones in over 22,000 communities nationwide.
Unfortunately, Madam Administrator, to the detriment of
both victims of flood damage and the American taxpayer, this
program is currently more than $20 billion in debt, especially
after having to borrow substantial funds from Treasury, as you
noted earlier, to cover a series of devastating flood seasons,
including going back to 2017, which became the costliest season
on record and included hurricanes Maria, Harvey, and Irma.
Administrator, FEMA administers the National Flood Insurance
Program, which is set to expire in a few weeks, of this year.
Can you offer us your thoughts on how the financial position of
this program is impacting your ability to support homeowners
and businesses that are recovering from flood damage?
Administrator Criswell. The National Flood Insurance
Program is one of the only ways that a homeowner can get the
necessary coverage to protect their investments, and the
National Flood Insurance Program has not had a multiyear
authorization in many years. It has been from CR to CR. Without
a multiyear authorization, we will continue to struggle year
after year to meet the claims that individual homeowners have.
And we have offered up, with our reauthorization proposal, 13
measures--I think it is 13--steps that we can take that will be
able to make the program financially solvent and make sure that
everybody has access to this through an affordability framework
as well. As we know, not everybody can afford flood insurance,
yet it is their No. 1 resource and tool to help protect their
investment.
Mr. Lynch. So, we seem to keep falling behind with these 1-
year, I think it is called as-needed funding. You do not have a
multiyear program where you can actually try to get ahead of
some of the stuff. So, we are still dealing with Hawaii. We are
still dealing with some of these 2017 disasters that we have
not caught up to. One thing I wanted to ask you is that we seem
to compartmentalize these disasters. Because of the impacts of
climate change, we have got, you know, these epic rainfall
events that is causing flooding, we have got tornadoes, we have
got hurricanes, we have got drought-induced wildfires, and our
flood insurance program only covers certain people or targets
certain people in flood zones. Would it be better, would it be
more efficient if we looked at a, rather than having a flood
insurance program, we had a wider, a broader disaster insurance
program where we have more people paying into that? It might
cross-subsidize some of the costs that we are seeing as a
result of these disasters and might allow a break to the
taxpayer instead of having to go in and bail out people who
might repeatedly be experiencing flood damage from storm surges
in areas where they may not wisely relocate.
Administrator Criswell. Yes. I mean, the National Flood
Insurance Program is available to anybody, and I often have
said, if it rains where you live, it can flood where you live.
There are only certain areas that are mandated to purchase
flood insurance, but everybody has the opportunity to purchase
flood insurance. As far as making that a broader, more
catastrophic insurance program, I think that is something that
we should be having conversations with the private sector about
because that is what they should be providing.
Mr. Lynch. All right. Thank you. My time has expired. Mr.
Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. Really good questions. I will recognize
myself for 5 minutes, and, Administrator, I want to thank you
for the work that you and FEMA did in my district a few years
ago after the tornadoes in West Kentucky. I want to publicly
say that.
[Photo]
Chairman Comer. With respect to the text message behind me,
how did you receive the text message? Did you know about it
before it became public, or was it brought to your attention
before the media made public with it?
Administrator Criswell. It was brought to my attention on
November 7 while I was in North Carolina with my leadership
team checking in on recovery. It was mentioned to me that they
had heard that there was a text message that a staff member had
sent. I then directed my team to look into this. This was
before the media inquiry or the media story came out. They
reviewed it and looked into it on the 8th. They contacted me on
November 9. They showed me the text message. I still had not
seen any media stories, and I directed the termination of the
employee because it violates the way we conduct business.
Chairman Comer. And you have testified that you believe
this was an isolated incident. Why should we believe that this
is an isolated incident and not part of a pattern in FEMA?
Because we have seen many other government agencies that we
believe have become politicized and/or weaponized. So, I mean,
why should we believe this is an isolated incident?
Administrator Criswell. Chairman, I understand your
concern, and I share your concern because I want to ensure that
the American people know that FEMA is there to support all
people, which is why we are conducting an investigation and why
we have asked the IG to look into this further to ensure that
this is not beyond the one employee who sent this message, it
is not indicative of the rest of our workforce, and it is
completely unacceptable.
Chairman Comer. So, I want to go back to Ms. Washington.
You terminated her. She was a part-time employee. If she were a
full-time FEMA employee, could you have terminated her then and
there on the spot?
Administrator Criswell. We definitely have more flexibility
within our intermittent employee H.R. practices, but we would
have been able to take the necessary action to remove her until
a full investigation had been done.
Chairman Comer. So, how likely would it have been that her
termination would have been overturned because she would have
been a full-time civil servant and been protected by the civil
service merit laws, tenure laws, whatever you want to call it?
Administrator Criswell. Given the text of this message, it
is very clear that this was an unacceptable type of behavior,
and I do not believe it would have been overturned. I think the
system worked.
Chairman Comer. Well, we are going to find out with a lot
of Federal employees that we believe should be held accountable
for bad behavior. And that is one of the huge issues in this
election, and this is going to be a priority for the new
Administration. And this is a role that this Committee is going
to play moving forward to try to work with the Trump
Administration, work with Elon Musk, and Mr. Ramaswamy to try
to make government more efficient, so we will see. We certainly
believe that people, regardless of their party, regardless of
their status and their years of service in the Federal
Government, regardless of their ideology, if they have done
wrong, then they should be held accountable. And I think the
American people agree with us, and I think that was a huge
issue in the election a few weeks ago.
I want to switch gears and talk about FEMA, and I think a
lot of people, myself included, often wonder what is the role
of FEMA. So, if a hurricane or a tornado or a natural disaster
happens, I believe FEMA should be first on the scene. I believe
that they should be in charge of, obviously, rescue and
recovery to help coordinate to ensure that people have food and
shelter. And then, of course, the big role, I believe, FEMA
plays is debris removal, to try to help coordinate to get the
power going, to get the roads cleared, and things like that. A
lot of people wonder what then? What else is FEMA responsible
for? Because I know when we had our issues in West Kentucky,
people were thinking that if they did not have insurance, that
FEMA was supposed to come in and pay for that. Can you tell
this committee and the American people who are watching this
what exactly FEMA's role is the second a natural disaster
happens, whether it is a wildfire out West, or whether it is
tornado in the Midwest, or whether it is a hurricane on the
East Coast? What is FEMA's responsibility from start to finish,
and how long should that take?
Administrator Criswell. I think the best way to start that,
Chairman, is the fact that all disasters are executed at the
local level. They are managed at the state level and supported
by the Federal Government, and that is where FEMA comes in. In
this particular incident, I contacted Governors before the
storm made landfall in all of the states that were impacted,
encouraging them to ask for a pre-landfall emergency
declaration. What that does is it allows me to preposition
resources, and these are not just FEMA teams. These are the
Federal Government. It gives me the ability to direct other
members of the Federal Government to come in and be able to
respond to those immediate lifesaving needs as needed after a
storm passes.
For these events, we prepositioned resources from Florida
up to North Carolina and into Virginia to support those
immediate needs, and we do that at the support of the Governor.
We have teams that are embedded with the Governor sitting side-
by-side who are also communicating with the local emergency
managers, the local first responders to know where those needs
are so we can direct our resources to the areas that do not
have enough. These all start and end with that local first
responder, and they did amazing work in those first few hours
after these storms passed. And our teams on the ground
immediately, the search and rescue teams from across the
Federal Government, were there doing lifesaving activities as
the storm were passing all of these states.
We then support through mission assigning other Federal
agencies like the Army Corps of Engineers to help assess what
the needs are going to be for debris removal or at the request
of a local jurisdiction to actually do the debris removal if
they do not have the contracts to do so. And then we continue
to support the stabilization of those lifelines, being able to
reimburse communities if they put in a temporary bridge or if
they have done something to----
Chairman Comer. And the time has expired, but what is the
normal time length for this? Do you have an objective when you
go in and say, all right, this is when we hope to be finished,
we hope everybody is paid and all? Is that ever a factor or an
objective?
Administrator Criswell. All disasters are definitely
unique. My objectives and my timelines are, in that response,
to make sure that I have teams on the ground before landfall,
that they are engaged during and after landfall, and then when
the Governor's team tell us that the incident has stabilized,
then we demobilize those response teams.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes----
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, I just have a UC request on some
relevant articles.
Chairman Comer. Yes, go ahead.
Mr. Raskin. One published in The Hill, September 30, 2024,
titled, ``Georgia Governor Kemp Praises Biden's Hurricane
Helene Response Amid Trump Criticism;'' a CNN article, October
7, titled, ``DeSantis and Biden Speak On Storm Recovery After
Reports GOP Governor Had Not Returned Calls From President,
Vice President; and three, a CNN article, October 3, titled,
Fact Check: Amid Bipartisan Praise for Biden's Hurricane
Response, Trump Falsely Claims Reviews are Universally
Negative.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Krishnamoorthi
from Illinois.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you, Chairman, and I thank you,
Administrator, for your service. I want to show you a visual.
[Photo]
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Do you recognize this picture?
Administrator Criswell. I do not.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Good. It is an atmospheric research
facility in Alaska that, believe it or not, conspiracy
theorists allege is a mind-controlling weather machine, and one
of the conspiracy theories out there is that somehow FEMA
controls the weather. And I assume that you, as the
Administrator, do not control the weather, right?
Administrator Criswell. I do not control the weather.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And you do not use secret machines to
control hurricanes to target certain places in the United
States, right?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And you and your team did not direct
severe weather at North Carolina to ``commandeer lithium mine
property in that state,'' right?
Administrator Criswell. Why would anybody want to bring
harm to the American people?
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. And you would not direct severe weather
to target any one of a particular political party, right?
Administrator Criswell. Never.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. You are not establishing FEMA camps to
detain individuals or enact martial law, right?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. These are all conspiracy theories that
you have had to deal with. I am glad that you have addressed
them in this forum. Now let me talk about stuff that is true.
It is true that during Hurricane Helene and Milton, FEMA
assisted more than 35,000 households with disaster relief,
right?
Administrator Criswell. That number sounds about correct.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Let me just talk to you a little bit
about what certain Republican officials have said about your
response. Can you please show the first one?
[Chart]
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. This is Governor Glenn Youngkin of
Virginia. Do you recognize him?
Administrator Criswell. I do.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. He said, ``I am incredibly appreciative
of the rapid response and the cooperation from the Federal team
at FEMA.'' You do not disagree with that, right?
Administrator Criswell. Governor Youngkin and I were
communicating, texting, and talking daily, if not hourly,
during the initial hours that it was passing Virginia.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Well, let me show you another quote.
This is Governor Henry McMaster of South Carolina. He said
Federal assistance from FEMA has ``been superb.'' You do not
disagree with that either, right?
Administrator Criswell. I do not.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Another one. This one is from Senator
Thom Tillis, Republican of North Carolina. He said, ``It has to
be a coordinated response, and FEMA knows how to do this
well.'' I presume you do not disagree with him either, right?
Administrator Criswell. I do not.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Let me turn to a final topic, and this
has to do with, basically, homes that also serve as childcare
centers in many places, including in disaster zones.
Administrator Criswell, access to childcare is often forgotten
in the aftermath of a disaster, and I am worried that cases
like these do not get enough attention by FEMA or other
agencies because these childcare centers are often based in the
provider's homes rather than a commercial facility. Let me show
you what is called a flood susceptibility map of the Chicago
area, which is what I represent.
[Map]
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. I would like to draw your attention to
this particular map because it shows the areas of the Chicago,
what we call Chicagoland, that have high susceptibility of
flooding, and as you can see, it is this blue area, which
basically covers the entire region like a wet blanket. It
represents millions of parents and children as well as
thousands of childcare centers. And so, my question to you is,
in light of the fact that there is a perception, and I believe
a reality, that not enough attention has been paid to these
childcare centers that are situated in homes, can you commit to
proposing to my office and this Committee ways that you can
increase coordination between FEMA and the SBA to assist
businesses like these home-based childcare centers?
Administrator Criswell. Congressman, my office would be
happy to provide any technical drafting assistance or further
assistance to be able to figure out how we can better address
these vulnerable populations within these communities.
Mr. Krishnamoorthi. Thank you very much, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognize Mr. Grothman from
Wisconsin.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Thank you for coming on over here.
I think the last time we had FEMA before this Committee was
maybe about 8 years ago, and that was a time when, I think down
in Louisiana, they had mobile homes that were being sold for, I
do not know if you remember this, for maybe a tenth of cost to
which they were paid for, but that was the last time. I can
tell you, along with many Republicans, when they come into
contact with the government, they sometimes worry about
prejudice against them, OK? I know one guy in my district, he
once did an ad, and miraculously, not your Agency, another
agency kind of came down hard on them. Maybe coincidence. Maybe
not. We all felt it was not coincidence.
Under President Biden, foreign aid has become a vehicle to
promote an overseas social agenda pushed by one party. The
Administration has implemented a disturbing trend of using
foreign assistance as a tool to advance political and
ideological goals. This has raised an important question. Is
the same political discrimination influencing how FEMA
allocates disaster relief domestically, how it responds to this
crisis? First of all, FEMA's workforce is unionized and
represented by the American Federation of Government Employees.
Is that true?
Administrator Criswell. Yes, our employees have that
option.
Mr. Grothman. OK. What percentage of FEMA employees are
part of the union? Do you know?
Administrator Criswell. I do not have that number on me,
but I will be happy to get back to you. It is----
Mr. Grothman. OK. Does FEMA collect or track data on
political contributions made by----
Administrator Criswell. We do not.
Mr. Grothman. OK. The union representing your employees, at
least what I have before me here today, has contributed about
$12 million to Democrats over the last 20 years. Last three
cycles, 93 percent to Democrats. Ninety-six percent to
Democrats. Again, 96 percent to Democrats. And these
contributions go where you would expect, Senate Majority PAC,
DCCC, and President Biden himself. It raises the question, when
you have a group of employees or somebody representing
employees that is so overwhelmingly slanted to helping one
party as opposed to the other party, is it possible that that
overwhelming bias slips into some decisions that are being made
by your employees?
Administrator Criswell. Unions are not part of our FEMA
control, and employees have the option to choose to join them
or not.
Mr. Grothman. Right. I mean, the people who run the unions,
though, and who are presumably elected by your employees want
to push contributions overwhelmingly to one group. I assume
they communicate with your employees. Is this something that
possibly concerns you, or is this why we are perhaps here today
and that couple of your employees seem to believe their
responsibility was to use their government job to help one
group of people rather than the other group of people? Could it
perhaps create that mindset?
Administrator Criswell. Congressman, it is just
unacceptable that any FEMA employee would tell any part of our
organization to not support an individual that was impacted by
a disaster because of a political yard sign.
Mr. Grothman. Right. You see what I am saying, but, you
know, it is one thing if it is 50-50, but when it is like 95
percent to one party, 96 percent to one party, does that create
an environment, perhaps, of a dislike or even hatred of the
political party that they are not giving money to, because, of
course, this union, they presumably communicate with their
employees, this is who you should be supporting, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah. I sometimes wonder if that atmosphere comes a
little bit from these one-sided, slanted unions.
Administrator Criswell. Again, employees have a choice of
whether or not they want to join a union or not. Not all of our
employees are part of that union, and regardless, it is
unacceptable, regardless of if you are in a union or not, to
discriminate against a disaster survivor because of a political
sign in their yard. It is not who we are.
Mr. Grothman. I am really glad that Chairman Comer is
having this Committee. Are you aware of anything you are doing
to make sure this sort of thing does not happen in the past or
in the future, given the overwhelming political slant of the
union that represents your employees?
Administrator Criswell. So, you are talking about anything
I have done with the union or this event to----
Mr. Grothman. Specifically, to make sure this is not going
to happen again.
Administrator Criswell. Yes.
Mr. Grothman. Specifically talking to your employees and
say, we realize you have a union that apparently really
dislikes Republicans. What are you doing to make sure that that
does not flop over into how they dole out the government
largesse?
Administrator Criswell. Yes. So, immediately upon the
termination of the employee that made this direction, I sent
out an email to the workforce letting them know what is
expected of them and that we serve all people. I have been in
this job for 3-and-a-half years, and my focus has always been
on putting people first, and that is all people. We have also
conducted refresher training for all of our staff that are in
the field, explaining to them what we expect of them, again, so
there is no misinterpretation of how we support people that
have been impacted from disasters. And we will continue to work
with the IG on the investigation on if there is any other
factors related to this particular incident.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. I am sure this is something that
they will be talking about for the next 15 years.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Mfume from
Maryland.
Mr. Mfume. Thank you, Chairman Comer and Ranking Member
Raskin. I want to thank the Administrator for being here today,
and I want to associate my remarks with those of the Ranking
Member, Mr. Raskin, in his opening statement.
Madam Administrator, you have got a tough job, and I have
tried to sit here and to listen to what you say and how you say
it, and my gut tells me that you are a good person with a good
heart who wants to do good things for your Nation. I think that
if there was a disconnect here, it might be the fact that you
cannot make everybody underneath you good people, even though
we would like for them to be that way, because we take pride in
our Federal workforce, the fact that it is not a political
workforce. Every now and then, there becomes a possibility
where something terrible can happen. We all know that 2024 has
been a trying year for various agencies throughout the
government, dedicated, like yours, to protecting and providing
for Americans of all walks of life. Your Agency has done a good
job in providing resources, at least what you have, I might add
that, in very difficult situations in a number of different
communities. That conclusion is not mine alone. It comes from
Governors, other Members of Congress, mayors across the Nation.
That being said, I would be remiss if I did not in a
deliberately redundant way go back and address this report of a
FEMA employee who were allegedly forgoing visits to homes that
had Trump signs displayed. Now, regardless of whether that
employee was following a FEMA policy or not, it is a sad day,
quite frankly, any time. We have realized we have reached such
a state in our government where people are making decisions
based on their own partisan beliefs when they are in a
nonpartisan role of providing service and providing it to
everybody, and I must say that every disaster is not even a
natural disaster. In my own city of Baltimore, we had a major
bridge collapse, the Francis Scott Key Bridge, and we are still
struggling to try to find a way to deal with that, and that has
been since March 26 when it collapsed. The Port of Baltimore
was forced to close, as you know. Longshoremen and longshore
women were let go without work. Small businesses were impacted.
We mourned the lives of those six persons who died on that
bridge that night. And as we do in every disaster, we did not
check to see which political party they favored. When the Small
Business Administration, the Army Corps of Engineers and the
Coast Guard all stepped up, as they did repeatedly, month after
month to do the tough work, nobody asked for a party
registration or voting card or voting record.
So, we know that incidents like that are going to happen
again. But what we, I think, have to be very firm in is our
belief that emergencies should never have a party, and that
disasters ought to never be partisan. I expect that we are
going to work together on this. I would strongly suggest,
though, that as I listen to the interview that journalist
Roland Martin did with the person in question, I am still
scratching my head trying to figure out if, in fact, she was
told by someone who is full-time, who may have taken an
overreach in a disaster with a lot going on, to say, by the
way, you can skip those homes. I do not know that she
necessarily would have done it on her own. As you know from the
interview, she is not a Democrat, she is not a registered
Republican, and she did not even vote. So, I am still hoping
that at some point in time, your request to the Inspector
General will be taken seriously, and he will start to look at
what is going on. We need facts in this Committee more than
anything else.
And I am going back to the comments of my colleague from
Florida who mentioned the overall Department of Homeland
Security and suggested that that is where the problem lies
because it is so massive, and people are not doing what they
ought to do when they ought to do it to ensure integrity. I am
going to meet with him later today on the Floor because I want
to know that. He has worked in that capacity, so he should know
what he is talking about. So, I would just hope that as we move
forward here, to the extent that you can provide this Committee
and all the Members of this Committee with additional details,
that would be helpful. I would like very much to know what the
IG's response to you is going to be, and I would like to know
at the conclusion of your own report, if you would be so kind
as to share that with the Chair and the Ranking Member, so that
Members of this Committee who are still really not knowing what
to believe will have something more concrete that we can look
at and make decisions on. Thank you for your time. Mr. Chair, I
yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Cloud from
Texas.
Mr. Cloud. Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Administrator,
for being here. The Chair had asked how long does it take to
recover from these, and I represent a district that was
devastated by Harvey. It was just a few months ago that we were
still at a press conference at a ribbon cutting for something,
a project that we had worked with FEMA to help bring recovery
to. So, obviously, our hearts and minds go out to all those
devastated in these past two hurricanes and what those
communities and the families are going through right now.
I wanted to ask you about, Representative Donalds mentioned
that Ms. Washington says that she thinks this is an unisolated
incident. Of course, we have the New York Post article that
talks about a FEMA official who went on and said that avoiding
white-or conservative-dominated disaster areas was an open
secret within the Agency. You state that there is nothing in
the policy, you know, and I will say, I have been in enough of
these, and that is the expected answer from any Administrator--
of course it is not in the policy. From our standpoint, it is
not the policy that we are concerned with. It is not in the
policy for the IRS to target conservatives, it is not in the
policy for NIH to fund gain-of-function research, it is not in
DHS policy for them to release foreign terrorists into our
land, but they are, it is not policy of the FBI to target
schoolteachers or people of faith, but all this is happening.
And the common response is, well, it is not in the policy
manual.
Well, we are concerned about the culture. And I do not
think that it is in a stated policy or in the culture to
specifically say, you know, skip over Trump signs, but I am
concerned about if there is not a proactive response to make
sure that that is not clear within the culture, that that kind
of attitude should not be accepted at all. And I will point to
this: FEMA's current strategic plan lists three goals. The
first goal is to instill equity. We know that these DEI
initiatives have had a discriminatory aspect in it. We have
seen a lot of companies now having embraced it out of
altruistic means, but understanding that what they do is they
ask us to discriminate proactively. One of the things it
mentions is this plan lists racial minorities, even religious
minorities, as individuals who should be the beneficiaries of
equity. So, I would ask you, whose religious majority or a
racial majority does FEMA make decisions about resources
distributed according to these policies because this is in the
strategic plan. And so, whatever your case is on this, you are
asking your employees to make distinguishment between
individuals, as opposed to just meeting a need.
I tell people all the time, in our in our office, we do not
care who you are, we do not care what your voting record is, we
do not care your background, your whatever. When you walk into
our office, as many offices here, even across the aisle, we are
here to help and to help get your case through. I think that
should be the very clear standing of FEMA, and I would
encourage you to revise your strategic plan and rid it of all
the DEI. We will be addressing this actually in a mark-up, I
think, tomorrow. But if you could do that, I think that would
go a far way to making sure we have a proactive culture to
where it is very clear so these isolated incidences do not pop
up because what we did not see in that text thread was any
pushback on that either, and that should have been clear, like,
no, we are not about that, that is not what FEMA is about. And
I would encourage you to do that.
I did want to ask about a couple things, because sometimes
I have noticed, and I do not think this is the intent having,
you know, my own experience with FEMA, but sometimes it seems
that the process gets in the way of the people. And I will
point in our own district--you know, most of our districts are
rural--sometimes you would have a grant for $500,000 for a
rural community. They are having to go through the same sort of
process that, you know, a large metroplex, somebody with the
$20 million project is going through. Very often it was point
of contacts were very difficult. I know one place that had
seven site visits. It was a different team every time. They had
to start the process over and over again because staff kept
changing and these sorts of things.
I was talking to someone even yesterday and have had a
number of conversations with someone who is on the ground in
North Carolina trying to help, and they listed a couple
instances where you have people come out in the community. They
put some resources together. They are trying to respond while
FEMA is getting there and other resources agencies are getting
there. And FEMA would go in, and they would, for example, be
hosted in a place. FEMA would come out and rent out the place
from underneath the people who are already doing recovery work,
and they would confiscate the resources that were in that place
and, basically, take over and kick the people out. There was
this one group that, basically, were hiding their resources now
because that had happened to them 3 times already.
And so, I would also caution you, there are other
instances, too, where you have people trying to go and rescue
and do recovery of their family, of their friends, of their
neighborhoods, who they know are trapped on a mountain, for
example, and FEMA workers would stop them and prohibit them
from going in to rescue them. And so, again, in the aspect of
guiding a culture, could you speak to what you are doing to
ensure, in a sense, that you do not have--you mentioned some of
them are temporary employees--so you do not have people who
have this newfound authority who are actually prohibiting the
work because it does not fit within their scope, and that we
are making sure we put people before processes?
Administrator Criswell. Chairman, I know we are over. Do I
have time to answer?
Chairman Comer. Can you----
Administrator Criswell. Make it quick?
Chairman Comer. Yes, make it quick.
Mr. Cloud. My apologies. I have had a lot of experience
with FEMA, so.
Administrator Criswell. Yes, Congressman. I mean, first, I
just want to address that equity is a foundation of emergency
management as part of my strategic plan because I think it will
also address some of your concerns, because I share your
concerns. And when I was a local emergency manager, both in
Colorado but as well as in New York City, what I have
experienced is the barriers that people have, good working
people have, in trying to access the assistance that is
available to them. And when I came into this position, my goal
was to try to remove those barriers and make sure that
everybody had access. That is the foundation of why we put
equity in there. It was not a DEI initiative. It was about
making sure all people can access the programs.
Mr. Cloud. Religious minorities, distinguishing between
religious minority and majority.
Administrator Criswell. There is a definition as in the
executive order that is listed in there because that is the
executive order, but our view on equity is making sure that we
have----
Mr. Cloud. Why would you even ask?
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. Consistent and fair
treatment of all people and making sure that nobody is left
behind. That has been our goal, and we have made
transformational changes in our own policies and our
regulations to help assist more people. And we have been able
to provide more aid in the last 3 years because of these
changes because we focused on making sure that there were no
barriers, and we have not before.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman's time has gone way over. The
Chair now recognizes Ms. Ocasio-Cortez from New York.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I think
some of the points made earlier today that disaster response
and relief is historically and continues to be genuinely an
area of bipartisan work, and my hope is that we can continue to
protect these programs. In fact, one of the things that was
brought up earlier, Administrator Criswell, was the National
Flood Insurance Program, the NFIP. I previously served several
terms on the Financial Services Committee, which also has
jurisdiction over the authorizations around the National Flood
Insurance Program. And a lot of people do not know that the
maps for the NFIP and what is considered a flood zone are tied
to flood maps from before the Federal Government even
acknowledged that climate change is real. And so, we are
allocating flood insurance from before these areas became flood
zones that are now flood zones. And so historically, there has
been a great deal of Republican resistance to updating these
maps. My hope is that we can do that now.
But I wanted to move a little bit into your work and what
we are seeing now in the current information environment,
especially after a disaster. Administrator Criswell, recently
in North Carolina and with these storms and hurricanes that
have hit this year, there have been very large-scale moments of
disinformation regarding FEMA, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. One of those that I have just seen is
this idea that, and I am going to ask you if this is true or
not, and I apologize that I even have to ask you some of these
things. But I think it is important for the American people to
see in a setting like this, where we have to swear to tell the
truth, that we see officially on the record that these things
are not true, the first being that the suggestion that FEMA
assistance was only a $750 loan that would have to be paid
back, and if not, FEMA would seize the homes of everyday people
who may not be able to make that back in such a catastrophic
moment. Is that correct?
Administrator Criswell. That is completely inaccurate.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Completely false, correct? But was it,
in your assessment, and did you see lots of people believing
this on the ground or in the field?
Administrator Criswell. I was on the ground for over 3
weeks in North Carolina, and I did hear from people on the
ground asking me, is this real or is this not real?
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Another one that I also saw very widely
circulated, that FEMA did not have enough money to provide
relief services because that allocation of funds went to either
undocumented immigrants, aid to Ukraine, or even aid to the
Israeli Government. Is that correct, that FEMA funds were
allocated away to those causes?
Administrator Criswell. Completely inaccurate.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Completely false. On the record,
completely false, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And other things that we have seen as
well, that it is standing policy for FEMA to politically
discriminate. We know that that is not true, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And there was an incident, we see, but
that individual was fired and that this is not a policy at
scale, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Now, we know that these are important
pieces, very large and influential pieces of disinformation,
but I want to talk about the harm of that, because if you are a
FEMA worker canvassing door to door, you need to knock on
people's doors and see what help they need, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Yes.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Now, I know as someone who is a target
of large amounts of misinformation and disinformation, people
will sometimes--and I genuinely want to separate this from a
partisan accusation, but it is very important to say that if
someone thinks that a FEMA official is coming to their house to
take their house away, that is a situation that could be
escalatory or potentially become violent over something that is
not true, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. I mean, I have had people that have come
to me in an escalatory way because they have believed something
about me on the internet that was completely false, and that is
just me, let alone an anonymous FEMA official who does not have
the same level of resources to be able to combat that kind of
misinformation. And then on top of that, when people do believe
these kinds of things, what is the harm to the communities that
then get convinced of these mistruths?
Administrator Criswell. I think, Congresswoman, one of the
best stories that I can share with you was when I was in
Chimney Rock, North Carolina, and I was talking to the
leadership there. And Chimney Rock is the area where there were
accusations that there were physical threats to our FEMA staff,
where we temporarily moved all of our staff into fixed
locations. When I talked to that leadership team there, they
said this is not who we are. This is looking bad on my
community. Tourists may not want to come visit my community,
but let alone we need your help, the people in this community
need to register for assistance, and now we have to make sure
that they understand that the government is there to help them
and encourage them to apply for assistance so they can start
their road to recovery. I think that is a really good example
of how it not just impacts an individual, but impacts an entire
community and their reputation and who they believe they are,
and now who the public, writ large, thinks they are.
Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Got it. Thank you very much.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady's time has expired. They
have called votes. They called votes about 10 minutes ago, but
we are going to have one more questioner, and then we will
recess for votes. But the Chair now recognizes, for the last
question before recess, the gentleman from Alabama, Mr. Palmer.
Mr. Palmer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This hearing has been
all over the place, from climate change to politics to somewhat
on the issue at hand. And I want to ask you, Administrator
Criswell, has FEMA made any attempt to identify the people
discriminated against because of their support for President
Trump?
Administrator Criswell. The actions of this individual were
unacceptable, and we----
Mr. Palmer. That is not what I asked.
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. Do not have any
evidence at this point that shows that this was a larger issue,
but there are ongoing investigations.
Mr. Palmer. No, ma'am, I have only got a few minutes. No,
ma'am. I am asking--there were clearly people who were passed
over.
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Palmer. OK. Have you made any attempt to identify those
people?
Administrator Criswell. Those people that were passed over?
Mr. Palmer. Yes, ma'am.
Administrator Criswell. Yes. We sent another team in there,
and they have made contact with everybody in that community.
Mr. Palmer. So, what is FEMA prepared to do to meet the
needs of those people who were discriminated against?
Administrator Criswell. If they registered for assistance
or needed assistance, they are now in the system and will get
whatever they are eligible for.
Mr. Palmer. OK. And those are people who have applied that
notified you that they were passed over, or did you discover
them by other means?
Administrator Criswell. When we looked at the records from
this employee's team and found the homes that were skipped, we
sent a team in there to contact all of those homes. I cannot
tell you if they all applied for assistance, I do not know that
they all needed assistance, but we at least gave them the
opportunity.
Mr. Palmer. OK. Thank you. This is not the first time,
though, that FEMA has had an issue with discrimination because
for years, FEMA discriminated against houses of worship. It was
not until a lawsuit was brought by three churches in Texas and
two synagogues in Florida that this stopped. Are you aware of
that?
Administrator Criswell. I am not familiar with the lawsuit
that you are mentioning.
Mr. Palmer. Are you aware that FEMA has had an issue with
interacting with religious groups and churches?
Administrator Criswell. I am not.
Mr. Palmer. I think it is an unfortunate part of FEMA's
history. I can understand why there is a built-in political
bias for FEMA employees in Washington because only about 6.5
percent of the vote for President in the Washington, DC. went
to Trump. But I want to ask you something else, and I want to
go back to the questions that Congressman Jordan asked--
Chairman Jordan asked--and that those people who were on that
chat group that witnessed the directive to volunteers, I am not
sure you gave a satisfactory answer as to whether or not you
have contacted those people and what information you have
gotten from them. Have you tried to do that?
Administrator Criswell. As I said before, I have not
personally talked to them, but there are ongoing
investigations.
Mr. Palmer. So, will you state for the record that the
investigators are contacting those people to get their
information?
Administrator Criswell. The investigators should be
contacting them, and if they have not, I will ensure it.
Mr. Palmer. If you maintain that FEMA took swift and
satisfactory action after Mrs. Washington's team message. Why
do you think the whistleblower felt compelled to reveal her
message to the public?
Administrator Criswell. I cannot speak on behalf of the
whistleblower. I know that I was made aware of the situation on
November 7. I received confirmation that this text message had
been sent on November 9, and I directed her termination. It was
not acceptable behavior. It is not how we want to treat people.
Mr. Palmer. I understand what you are saying publicly, but
what matters is what you are doing in the investigation, what
you are doing privately to clean this up and to create a
culture of respect for all people, and I really do not care if
they are Republican or Democrat. I do not care their religious
affiliations. I think the role of FEMA is to provide aid when
necessary. And I just want to be sure that there is substantial
proof that you can offer the American people today that
taxpayers who pay their hard-earned dollars to provide for
these disaster response resources will not face future
political discrimination from FEMA. Can you give us absolute
assurance of that?
Administrator Criswell. Congressman, we are here to help
all people.
Mr. Palmer. I know, but you did not. I understand that----
Administrator Criswell. And I can assure you that we will
take action against anyone who has not followed our core values
of compassion, fairness, integrity, and respect. We treat
everybody the same. Everybody is eligible for assistance.
Mr. Palmer. We are counting on you doing that, and I would
like to identify with Mr. Moskowitz. I thought that his
perspective on the need to reorganize FEMA--well, Homeland
Security--was spot-on. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. Pursuant to the
previous order, the Chair declares the Committee in recess,
subject to the call of the Chair. We plan to reconvene 10
minutes after the conclusion of votes, so the Committee stands
in recess.
[Recess.]
Chairman Comer. The Committee will come back to order.
Before I recognize Ms. Brown, I want to make this statement
that during the recess for votes, my staff made contact with a
new whistleblower who provided a credible account that a FEMA
contractor visited the home of an elderly disabled veteran's
family around October 10 following Hurricane Helene. While
there, the FEMA contractor recommended that the family remove
Trump campaign materials and signs from both their house and
their yard. He warned the family that his FEMA supervisors do
not take kindly to Trump supporters and that they are seen as
domestic terrorists. The elderly homeowners were so frightened
by this and afraid that they would not recover their loss that
they removed all Trump materials and signs. Nevertheless, FEMA
has not returned to their residence, and this took place not in
Florida, but in Georgia. Administrator, we are happy to provide
you with more information on this, but we and the American
people want to know what FEMA is doing to ensure that political
discrimination is not dictating how the American people are
receiving aid following a disaster.
Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, will you share the information
with the Minority----
Chairman Comer. Absolutely.
Mr. Raskin [continuing]. As well so we can follow up on
that?
Chairman Comer. Absolutely.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. All right. Now, the Chair recognizes Ms.
Brown.
Ms. Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This hearing has shown
us why it is so important for our Federal officials to remain
unbiased, nonpartisan, and committed to helping every single
American under their mandate. The work of the Federal Emergency
Management Agency is critical and will become even more
important as we continue to experience more severe weather
events because of climate change. Just this year, in Northeast
Ohio, we experienced severe drought, extreme heat, flash
floods, and destructive tornadoes, all of which took place in
the span of just 1 month. I am very thankful that no deaths
occurred as a result, but the destruction from these storms and
climate events continue to be felt in my district and every
district across the country. We are grateful for the assistance
that FEMA provided, helping to assess the damage, and get
Northeast Ohio back on its feet.
As my colleagues have said, storms and other disaster
events have no political party, and they do not discriminate.
They do not care if you live in a blue state, a red state, or a
purple state. That is why FEMA and all of our Federal agencies
must remain fiercely nonpartisan. So, Administrator Criswell,
can you speak to how FEMA accomplishes its mission and goals in
a nonpartisan way, and why doing so is so important?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, the work that we do,
again, our mission statement of helping people before, during,
and after disasters, is so critical and especially, as you
mentioned, in a time when we are seeing an increase in the
number of severe weather events across the United States. These
weather events are becoming more complex, creating additional
challenges for people across the country to recover from these
events. We have to support everybody that has been impacted by
this, and it is one of the reasons why I have been so
determined throughout my time here to remove as many barriers
to accessing our programs as possible, like the recent changes
to our individual assistance program, which has been
transformational, the biggest changes that we have done in
probably 20 years to open up more assistance for people across
the United States that have been impacted. We have to help
these people get back on their road to recovery and that is
what FEMA does. We jumpstart that recovery.
Ms. Brown. And can you tell us why public confidence in
your mission is critical to the safety and well-being of the
American public?
Administrator Criswell. There is nothing more important
than trust. We have to have the trust of the American people.
We have to have trust of the communities, the leaders that we
are there to serve. We work for the Governor. We work for those
local communities. These disasters start and end with them and
we are there to support them, and we have to have that trust.
That is why we embed people side-by-side with the Governor's
team, with community leaders' teams, so we know what issues are
going on, what the challenges their communities are facing, so
we can move resources into those communities to help meet those
needs.
Ms. Brown. Thank you. Now, it is unfortunate we have seen
extremist conspiracy theories regarding FEMA's disaster
response. Can you please speak to how this harmful and
inaccurate rhetoric undermines your Agency's mission to provide
support to Americans impacted by a disaster, regardless of
party affiliation or anything else?
Administrator Criswell. Yes, the amount of misinformation,
Congresswoman, that we have seen throughout this event has
really been at a whole new level, but this is something that
FEMA has experienced since it was instituted in 1979. And we
need to be able to reach people where they are at to help them
on their road to recovery, and we do this in a number of ways.
We can translate information into their native language. We can
reach out to local faith-based organizations, trusted leaders
in the community to help them reach out to people that have
been impacted so they know that the information they are
getting is accurate and that they can and should apply for
assistance with FEMA.
Ms. Brown. Thank you for that. And this is how our
essential Federal agencies should continue to operate,
unaffected by partisan politics and above political
interference. I am very glad that this is something we are in
agreement on today and look forward to it continuing into the
future. And with that, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Sessions from Texas.
Mr. Sessions. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
Administrator, thank you for taking time to be here. I felt
like that in listening to you earlier, that your questions, the
answers, and the things that you responded with, not only show
that you have the capacity to understand the task in front of
you, but that you have effectively dealt with it. If I could
just provide two pieces of information. I am not even looking
for a response, but two pieces of information. We did a
Subcommittee hearing out in Hawaii and we had an opportunity,
the Subcommittee which I chair, Federal Workforce--Government
Operations and Federal Workforce--and it was very important for
us to go, and we learned that it was the most expensive
disaster in the country's history, some $3 billion. I was
surprised to hear that it was the most expensive, but that is
the testimony. I would draw to your attention that much of the
delay that has caused much of the money that has been spent, I
think, could be negotiated better with the Governor of the
state. The FEMA representatives who were there did a great job
and I enjoyed them, but they felt like that the delays in their
ability to make progress, to get people back onto their own
home site, back in their own homes has been delayed because the
Governor will not issue the necessary paperwork for them to
move forward. And so, they have moved them off a little bit,
maybe a mile to the West, and they are building a huge new
subdivision of mobile homes, essentially, that are going to
cost a million dollars each. And I think that many of those
could have been placed, maybe 4 or 5 months earlier with the
assistance of the Governor. I would encourage you to please
engage the Governor.
Second, in 2010, there was a blast that happened at West
Texas, a great big explosion, and part of that explosion
destroyed many schools, I think the elementary school, the
junior high, and the high school. We are still now 14 years off
that, and there is a disagreement about the aggregated money
that was spent, and FEMA still believes that West Texas, West
Independent School District, still owes back a great deal of
money, and my staff got deeply engaged. About a 5-hour Zoom
call occurred, and at that I think that there could have been
more transparency on behalf of the Federal Government because
there were dollars that were lumped into aggregate areas that
we could not tell what was in there, and I do not think it was
a perfect match. It was apples on one side and oranges on
another, and the city of West, including the school district,
put things that they paid for, for instance, some athletic
fields and some other things, which were not broken out and
which may have been an assumption that somebody else was paying
for things.
My point in saying this, you have not personally looked at
this and I have not either, but I am going to, and I would like
to, when I contact your regional coordinator there, I would
like to advise him that I told you that I think more
transparency will be necessary so that we can effectively put
this to bed, and I would like to ask that you somehow give some
signal or notice. Let us get transparency. Let us resolve this.
Fourteen years is too long. We do appreciate FEMA. We do
appreciate the work they have done and I am proud of your work
as the Administrator. Mr. Chairman, I yield back my time.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Lee from Pennsylvania.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I would also like to
thank Administrator Criswell for being here with us today on a
very long day, obviously, but let us be real. You know, what
FEMA does has never been more critical because right now
climate change has completely flipped the script. Storms like
Milton and Helene hitting landlocked states, that was
unthinkable not too long ago, but now we have got places like
Asheville, North Carolina, 2,000 feet above sea level and
hundreds of miles from the coast getting wrecked by hurricanes
and extreme weather. So, Administrator Criswell, as we are
seeing more frequent and intense storms, what new challenges
are you seeing emerge for your Agency?
Administrator Criswell. As you mentioned, Congresswoman, we
are seeing events like we have not seen before. I mean, I can
think back to a year ago with the wildfires in Maui that were
happening at the same time that we had a hurricane in the
Pacific heading toward the desert lands of California. The
types of events and severe weather events that we are seeing
are at a scale that we have not seen previously. I mean, as an
example, 117-ish disasters last year and we have over 170
already declared this year. The challenges we face is making
sure as we are rebuilding these communities, that we do so in a
way that makes them stronger against future storms, and not
just the risks that they faced in the past, but the risks that
they will face in the future.
Ms. Lee. Certainly. So, as climate change worsens, would
you say that your Agency is going to need more resources or
fewer resources?
Administrator Criswell. I think we will definitely need
more resources to be able to keep up with the pacing demand of
the events that we have been responding to.
Ms. Lee. Certainly. It does not take a genius to figure
that one out. More disasters in more areas mean more help will
be needed. The climate crisis is here. Pretending that it does
not exist or that it will not get worse only harms the people
that we have been sent to this body to represent. For the sake
of not only my constituents, but people all over the country
who may face natural disasters they have never even thought to
prepare for. I hope that we can all come together to give the
American people the help that they deserve. That means making
sure that FEMA is fully funded and that they are serving all
survivors of natural disasters. So, let us be honest about what
is happening here today.
My Republican colleagues want to cherry-pick this incident
and sensationalize it. Well, the reality is that for decades
there has been different treatment by FEMA, for instance,
toward Black and Brown communities. Hurricanes Katrina, Maria,
Ida, Florence, Harvey, we all saw communities of color served
last or not at all, and those are difficult to discuss, but
important. Several reports and investigations confirmed what
those of us who are part of those communities already knew,
that White disaster victims were helped first and with more
money than Black, people of color, even when the damage was the
same. Rather than fixate on a single incident, this Committee
should be working to ensure that the entire system is equitable
for all Americans and that we are building on the work of the
Administration to make that so.
With that said, while we are reflecting and analyzing our
disaster response, I would like to ask you, Administrator
Criswell, what has FEMA done to ensure that all communities,
particularly the most marginalized, are being fully served? How
has there been improvement since previous storms where we have
seen critiques or even difficulties in administering service?
Administrator Criswell. You know, I have served as a local
emergency manager, and I understand what it is like to be a
customer of FEMA. I have seen people within my own communities
that have had a hard time accessing the programs. One of the
first things that I did was change some of our policies to
ensure that we understand everybody's unique needs. For
example, we know that many homeowners in all parts of the
country do not have traditional mortgages or traditional deeds
to their homes. And so, we expanded the types of documentation
that we accept from people so they can access our programs.
These are the kind of barriers that were affecting people
everywhere, and we wanted to make sure that everyone that was
impacted by a disaster could access our programs with minimal
amount of barriers. Those are the changes that we have made. We
continue to make more. There is more work to do.
Ms. Lee. Certainly, but those are such critical steps that
we have seen results from, so we thank you for that. I do not
think it can be stressed enough how important FEMA is going to
be in the years to come. The climate crisis means recognizing
that we are about to see weather events we have just never
expected. Hurricanes ravaging inland communities,
uncontrollable wildfires, as you have mentioned, across more
areas of the country, uncontrollable tornadoes, floods, severe
storms that are upending lives. Every dollar not invested in
FEMA now, is just going to burn us in the years to come.
When communities are leveled, it costs more money to fix.
We have no choice but to invest if we do not want to see
communities completely erased after climate catastrophes. I
agree with my colleagues across the aisle that partisanship has
no place in distributing government services and aid. Neither
does race or socioeconomic status. That being said, as more and
more of our constituents are affected by increasing natural
disasters, it is more important than ever that we maintain that
same commitment to nonpartisan distribution of aid in the
coming years. I thank you, again, for joining us and for your
testimony today, and I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Burchett from
Tennessee.
Mr. Burchett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Criswell, there
seems to be a huge discrepancy in Federal cost share between
different states. And if I had a map, I could show you. There
it is up there on there.
[Map]
Mr. Burchett. Why is East Tennessee only granted 45 days of
100-percent Federal cost share? It seems like parts of North
Carolina, as you can see, were granted 180 days of the 100
percent Federal cost share.
Administrator Criswell. The cost share requests for each of
the states were granted based on the Governor's request.
Mr. Burchett. The Governor. So, when I go to Governor Bill
Lee, he is going to tell me that was what he requested?
Administrator Criswell. That was the Governor's initial
request. He has since then requested an additional amount of
time, and that is currently under review.
Mr. Burchett. OK. We would be very appreciative if you
could help with that. Why is there a political border between
Tennessee and North Carolina determining the Federal cost
share? Does that fall back on the Governors, or is that
something that you all do? I mean, it just seems like if you
got a loss, you know, why should it stop at the border if
obviously the devastation is in North Carolina and then the
water came down through there and just wiped-out parts of
Tennessee as well?
Administrator Criswell. Presidential disaster declarations
are based by statute on individual states, and then everything
that goes with that, to include cost share, is based on the
request from the Governor as well as the overall capacity and
needs of that state.
Mr. Burchett. OK. When would the Governor's review be
finalized?
Administrator Criswell. We plan to have that review done in
the next several weeks.
Mr. Burchett. OK. If it is done in the next several weeks,
won't that delay the cleanup by these companies?
Administrator Criswell. No, it should not delay it. This is
only about a cost share. So, the work to continue to remove
debris or to stabilize critical infrastructure should and needs
to continue, and then we will continue to reimburse states on
the work that they have done.
Mr. Burchett. OK. Is North Carolina eligible for 180 days
of Federal cost share due to the severity of the disaster, or
it is just that goes back just to the Governor, what they were
asking?
Administrator Criswell. In North Carolina's case, the
Governor did ask for 180 days, and based on the severity and
magnitude of the disaster, and the scale of the impacts across
Western North Carolina, it was determined that that was an
appropriate request.
Mr. Burchett. OK. What documentation do you require to
reimburse disaster victims for temporary shelter?
Administrator Criswell. For individuals themselves or for
states that covered sheltering costs?
Mr. Burchett. Individuals.
Administrator Criswell. So, if an individual has
experienced costs related to evacuating their area, either pre-
landfall or during a disaster, they are eligible for a number
of different programs. They can get rental assistance, and that
can be determined just by applying for FEMA additional
assistance, but if they need continuing rental assistance, they
will have to show receipts that they are continuing to pay for
rent. Every case is going to be specific and unique to each
individual, and we work with them on a case-by-case basis.
Mr. Burchett. The lady who has been alluded to many times,
the FEMA employee with the name was Marni Washington, if I am
correct, who gave the order to discriminate against Trump
supporters. Who is her supervisor, and was the supervisor
disciplined or was it just totally taken as an individual
action?
Administrator Criswell. At this point, the unacceptable
behavior of this FEMA crew lead, this individual person, has
led to my direction to have her terminated. We are conducting
ongoing investigations, and we will continue to provide any
necessary disciplinary action as necessary. We have also
engaged the Inspector General to assist us and provide their
own independent investigation.
Mr. Burchett. Was this person's supervisor investigated as
well?
Administrator Criswell. This is an ongoing investigation,
and everybody that has been involved in that incident will be
part of that investigation.
Mr. Burchett. When do you expect that to be finalized? Is
there any way to tell?
Administrator Criswell. I think it is too early to tell an
exact timeframe, especially since we want to bring in the
Inspector General to conduct their own investigation.
Mr. Burchett. OK. What documents do illegal migrants need
for shelter?
Administrator Criswell. I am not an immigration agency. I
would have to defer you to DHS.
Mr. Burchett. So, they do not come to you all and say--when
they apply for FEMA, they do not do that?
Administrator Criswell. Only legal citizens can get
additional assistance from FEMA. There are a number of ways
that they can do that, and it is all described in statute.
Mr. Burchett. OK. Secretary Mayorkas uses authority under
Title V of the 2024 appropriations bill to shift funds from the
migrant program to disaster relief programs. How do you plan to
restore the faith in FEMA after that occurred?
Administrator Criswell. Can you repeat that question, sir?
We shifted----
Mr. Burchett. I am running out of time, if that is all
right, Mr. Chairman. Has Secretary Mayorkas used his authority
under Title V of the 2024 Appropriations Bill to shift funds
from migrant programs to disaster relief programs?
Administrator Criswell. I am not aware of any funding being
shifted from migrant programs into disaster relief programs.
Mr. Burchett. Or----
Administrator Criswell. Disaster relief is a separate
appropriation from Congress.
Mr. Burchett. OK. For disaster relief to migrant, either
way?
Administrator Criswell. There has been no money shifted
from the disaster relief fund under this Administration to
support migrant programs.
Mr. Burchett. OK. I have run out of time. Thank you, Mr.
Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Ms. Crockett.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank
you so much, Administrator, for being here. A couple of things
that I want to try to run through as quickly as possible. Are
you familiar with NOAA?
Administrator Criswell. NOAA, the National Oceanic
Atmospheric Administration?
Ms. Crockett. Yes, yes. And out of curiosity--you obviously
knew what NOAA stood for--when we are trying to prepare for
these disasters as they are impending, do you rely on
information that you receive from them in getting prepared for
a potential disaster?
Administrator Criswell. NOAA is a critical partner of
FEMA's, whether it is through their National Hurricane Center
to give us forecasts for where hurricanes and the strength of
hurricanes are going to hit, or the National Water Center that
helps us understand what the flooding impacts are going to be,
or the Severe Weather Center that talks about tornado
forecasts. All of this is important to make sure that, one, we
can inform individuals that are in harm's way, but also help us
prepare and preposition our resources to support any immediate
response needs.
Ms. Crockett. Thank you for that. So, you would agree with
me that any administration that would decide that it wants to
get rid of NOAA, that would probably make your job that much
more difficult?
Administrator Criswell. Without the scientific data that we
get from NOAA to help us make decisions and warn the public, it
would make that job more difficult.
Ms. Crockett. OK. I want to talk about money, and I want to
talk about it a lot here in a minute. Listen, we had a vote
that was right before these terrible hurricanes that we have
been talking about, Milton and Helene, came in. And in that
particular vote, we had an opportunity to decide how much
funding was going to go to FEMA. And it is my understanding
that on this Committee, we had a few Members that decided that
they were not going to vote in support of that funding. I do
not know how closely you follow, but we had a number of Members
who actually served not only on this Committee, but they serve
in states that have been mentioned, such as Tennessee, North
Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. And right now, it is my
understanding that we are having a hearing because there is a
concern about a specific individual who potentially skipped, I
think, the total was 20 homes, correct?
And in those 20 homes, if you had to guess, and I do not
know if you have been back to those 20 homes at this point in
time to see what resources, if any, were needed, but if you had
to guess, approximately how much money are we talking about did
not potentially get distributed immediately to those 20 homes?
Administrator Criswell. All 20 homes have been revisited by
our Disaster Survivor Assistance teams. I do not know how many
have actually applied for assistance, but the maximum amount
that is available for an individual through this disaster was
$42,500 for housing assistance and another possible $42,500 for
other needs assistance.
Ms. Crockett. OK. What I am hearing, though, is we are
talking about 20 houses. The data that I have in front of me
shows that over 18,000 interactions have been conducted for
survivors of both Hurricane Helene and Milton. Is that
approximately correct?
Administrator Criswell. I would say that that number is
probably much higher than that.
Ms. Crockett. OK. Give me your number. Well, let us
presuppose that the number was 18,000. If we talked about 20
out of 18,000, that would mean that we are currently using
resources to have a hearing about .1 percent of interactions,
so this is not something that we would consider to be
widespread when we start talking about percentages that are as
low as .1 percent. In addition to that, it is my understanding
that as of November 13, FEMA has delivered over 16 million
meals, over 18 million liters of water, over 3,000 rolls of
blue roof sheeting, over 700,000 gallons of fuel, and
additionally, FEMA has delivered over 2,000 tractor trailer
deliveries containing critical supplies. Do you have any reason
to have any discrepancies about those numbers?
Administrator Criswell. No.
Ms. Crockett. In addition to that, it is my understanding--
I am sorry, you are right that over 671,000 households impacted
by Hurricane Helene have received over $503 million from FEMA's
Serious Needs Program, and over 218,000 households impacted by
Hurricane Milton have received over $145 million. Yet and
still, we had Members on this Committee, it looks like there
were 82 Members that opposed the bill to fund when we knew that
this was coming, thanks to NOAA, and 19 of the 26 Republicans
on this Oversight Committee voted against the bill to keep FEMA
funded, and nine are in states that were directly hit.
I do not understand why we come in and pretend that we have
all these issues with your Agency, and I thank you for your
service, when you do not want to fund it. You cannot complain
about these issues, and when we are talking about, you know,
the people that got skipped over, maybe or maybe not,
ultimately there was a concern about safety. Now hopefully, we
will get the full investigation, but we know that it was Trump
that was out there himself. He was putting out disinformation
and misinformation to the extent that you all had to set up an
entire website to try to combat it. That was a disservice to
all Americans because when a hurricane hits, it does not go
into the Democratic areas. It does not go to the Independents.
It does not go to the Republicans. It goes to American
citizens. It is time for us to decide that we are going to work
together and make sure that we can take care of people
regardless of the decisions that they decide to make on who
they want to put into the White House. And I thank you for your
service and I yield.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Fallon from
Texas.
Mr. Fallon. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know what?
Listen, when a natural disaster hits, it is devastating for
those who are affected. Their lives, their health, their well-
being, their livelihoods, they are all at risk, and it tosses
their lives upside down. And in short, in the aftermath of
these acts of God, we are going to find Americans at their most
vulnerable, and they are desperate, and they need help. And
FEMA is the one Federal Agency whose primary mission is to
provide them that help, and the American taxpayers, as we all
know, fund it, and it does not matter if you are a Democrat, it
does not matter if you are a Republican. You are an American,
and you pay taxes to ensure that you can be helped if, God
forbid, that act of God occurred. And we do not help them by
arbitrarily deciding if they support one particular candidate
over another. That is not only immoral and wrong, it is
criminal. It shatters the Hatch Act. And then we have a FEMA
employee unfortunately,--I believe it is Marni Washington--who
was purposely and deliberately withholding aid to Trump
supporters. So, you are going to avoid those homes that had
Trump signs. Director, fair to say that you were horrified when
you learned of that?
Administrator Criswell. It is completely unacceptable, and
it was heartbreaking to hear that anybody that was impacted by
this disaster potentially did not get the assistance they
needed.
Mr. Fallon. So, would you say that it was an isolated
incident?
Administrator Criswell. At this time, I have seen no other
evidence that goes beyond Ms. Washington, but this is under
continuing investigation.
Mr. Fallon. So, it was not systemic? You do not feel it was
systemic?
Administrator Criswell. I understand the reports that this
employee is making. However, the evidence that has been
presented to me does not show that this is a widespread
problem, but I want to be certain----
Mr. Fallon. OK. Right.
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. That this is not a
widespread problem.
Mr. Fallon. So, Ms. Washington disagreed, of course, and
she said that she would have been scapegoated, and that FEMA,
the Agency, prioritizes avoidance and de-escalation in
situations where some employees may feel unsafe, like according
to her, urban areas where there might be unleashed dogs. And I
mean, the thing that gets me about that is, Director, you do
not think that a Trump sign poses a danger akin to a runaway
dog, right?
Administrator Criswell. Of course not.
Mr. Fallon. And I mean, that is ridiculous, and Trump
supporters certainly should not be compared to or treated like
unleashed dogs, nor should anybody, even somebody that
supported Ms. Harris for President. And so, to determine
whether or not this is systemic and this is imbued into the
fabric of the Agency or not, would you agree that an
independent investigation should be called for?
Administrator Criswell. Absolutely.
Mr. Fallon. And I think it was Representative Perry, and
you had a discussion about that today. Was that right? I do not
know if it was today, but----
Administrator Criswell. It was this morning.
Mr. Fallon. This morning, yes.
Administrator Criswell. And, yes, and I have already
reached out to the IG. We had been working with him, but I have
directly asked them to perform an independent investigation.
Mr. Fallon. I think that is great. The thing is, like, on a
timeline basis, you had October 9, Milton reaches landfall and
then the 24th, there was a whistleblower complaint; 28th, your
legal staff found out about it, and we know for sure on the 7th
that the higher-ups--did you find out about this earlier, or
was it on the 7th?
Administrator Criswell. I was in North Carolina on November
7 when it was brought to my attention----
Mr. Fallon. OK.
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. That we had this
potential issue. I asked my team to look into it and get me
additional information. They presented me the written text of
this employee, and then I directed the termination.
Mr. Fallon. OK. So, did they present you the written text
on the 7th?
Administrator Criswell. On the 9th.
Mr. Fallon. On the 9th, and that is when you fired her, on
the 9th?
Administrator Criswell. Correct, after I saw written
evidence.
Mr. Fallon. There was a Daily Wire article that happened to
just hit on the 8th, and that was, like, national news, and
then she was fired the very next day. I was just concerned
about the fact that your legal staff knew on the 28th and this
woman was not only continually being employed by FEMA, but also
as a supervisor as well. And then, so you do agree that we
should have an IG investigation, and I think that I also do,
but that was not until today. Why the delay?
Administrator Criswell. There was no delay. We have been
working with the IG since this was brought to the Office of
Professional Responsibility. They have been determining whether
or not they were going to take this case, and I just directly
asked them today.
Mr. Fallon. So, you did not directly ask them--you could
have directly asked them earlier though, fair to say?
Administrator Criswell. Fair to say.
Mr. Fallon. OK. But there was a delay of a couple of weeks.
Administrator Criswell. We had to work with them, and we
brought them into this.
Mr. Fallon. OK. So, you know, it is interesting being on
this Committee, Mr. Chairman, for 4 years. It seems no matter
what we talk about, all roads lead back to Donald Trump, and
for our friends across the aisle, he is the boogeyman Trump. We
can be talking about 40-year high inflation, it is somehow
Trump's fault. Twenty-year high interest rates, Trump. We are
talking about a FEMA employee denying services to supporters of
Donald Trump and that somehow all they want to talk about is
Donald Trump--edited, cherry-picked, out of context
information. I think that is called misinformation, if I am not
mistaken. And it is unfortunate because here is the facts: that
Donald Trump was President for 4 years and he approved 89
disasters in states that opposed him, including 17 in
California, more than any state. More than 80 percent of the
disaster requests that President Trump denied came from
Governors of states he won in 2016. And I am going to have a
quote here from an expert. ``There is really no difference that
I have seen,'' said Chad Berginnis, the Executive Director of
the Association of State Floodplain Managers. That is truth in
context. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Tlaib from Michigan.
Ms. Tlaib. Thank you so much, Chairman. Administrator,
thank you so much for being here. I know it has been a long
day, but this is really important in regard to something that
is happening in my community. I know you probably know I am
from Michigan, and we have been hit hard the last 4 years as a
result of storms and flooding. We had two declarations in the
last 4 years for flooding. Many of my residents still currently
struggle with ongoing emotional toll as well as the cost of
flood damage, which they have yet to be able to recover to this
day.
In my district, though, residents live in housing that
often do not have separate rooms, or what you call occupant
rooms in the basement, and which triggers this exclusion that
FEMA has right now of getting help when there is not somebody
sleeping in the basement. This was very much a surprise to me
because many of my seasoned residents who had flooding could
not get access to be able to do the cleanup, which led to such
terrible damage of their basement. And I would love to submit
for the record, Chairman, article from BridgeDetroit,
``Devastating Floods Leave Detroiters With Toxic Mold.''
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Tlaib. And in this article, it talks about the fact
that many of our homes, they would get all this coverage for
all these other things except the basement, where the majority
of the flooding left--you know, I have one resident, 90-year-
old woman in Northwest Detroit. If you walk into her home these
days, especially at this time of the year, you will feel cool
air coming from her kitchen to her living room. She will tell
you that 6 months has passed since the last FEMA declared
flood, and your heart sinks because she has no, literally
resulting from the damage of the basement, drainage issues, no
hot water, rising problems related to the mold and a broken
furnace, right? And we are helping her as quickly as possible
to try to see if there are any other community-based
organizations. But the question then comes to my team and I is,
why is this an exclusion, and would FEMA be open to working
with Members of Congress in a bipartisan way? Because Michigan,
we got basements, and we need to be able to have some sort of a
remedy that it can be a livable home. Toxic mold is dangerous
for any age, but especially my seasoned residents. They are on
fixed income. They do not have the resources to take care of
them.
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, the programs that we
have in our individual assistance program, one, do not replace
insurance. And when somebody is underinsured or uninsured, they
do have access to FEMA financial assistance through our housing
programs, but unfortunately, by statute, the only thing that we
are allowed to provide financial assistance with is for primary
living areas. And so that would be the financial assistance
that they get.
Ms. Tlaib. I want my colleagues to hear this, especially
one colleague. I think there could be a bipartisan effort here
because the basement helps make the rest of the house livable.
That is where the utilities are, I mean, allowing the mold to
continue to grow. I had a woman in Inkster who did not have the
capacity to clean out and get the water out. It froze in the
winter, causing even more damages to her home, and,
Administrator, I know it is statute. I just wanted my
colleagues to understand it. Also, Mr. Chair, for the record,
to submit, ``After the Flood,'' article, again, continue to
talk about the growing issue of flood and storms that are
coming throughout, I think, Michigan again, impacted by the
lack of, again, FEMA being able to cover or just be able to
provide some sort of assistance for basements.
Administrator Criswell. And Congresswoman, we would be
happy to partner with you and provide technical drafting
assistance, but right now, as you mentioned and as I mentioned,
we are limited by statute on what we can provide financial
assistance for, but we also work with our partners then.
Ms. Tlaib. I know.
Administrator Criswell. The SBA comes in.
Ms. Tlaib. SBA is so hard. You want to tell one of my
seasoned residents to get a loan from the Small Business
Administration, they will roll your eyes, probably never talk
to me again. I cannot do that to them. Even when I tell them
they will work with you, thinking about even a lien on their
home, they just do not want to go through that process. The
other thing, Administrator, I think is really important. I want
to know, and please get back to me, in those two declarations
in Michigan, what was the rate of denial? Because I had to go
through so many appeals with our families to get them the help
that they needed from FEMA, and I thought to myself we are just
denying folks. And then later, months later, but it takes so
much effort to, again, get somebody to respond, help the family
get the submission to appeal, and they actually get approved.
But the initial denial, I just feel like we could be preventing
that initial denial because it is devastating for a family.
Some do not even know to call their Member of Congress for
help.
Administrator Criswell. We would be happy to get you that
information. And I will just add that, you know, it frustrates
me equally as much that the way our current system, the
platform works, sends these letters out so quickly, when all we
need to do often is get one additional piece of information. It
is something that we can prioritize and trying to work on it.
Ms. Tlaib. It is like a receipt or something. Yes, just
tell the residents. We got to work on that, because denying
them, they will walk away and they do not even try again.
Administrator Criswell. I understand.
Ms. Tlaib. And I go to my town halls, I go to different
places, and they will say, ``well, FEMA denied me,'' and I
said, ``did you try appealing?'' What do you mean? How do I do
that? Again, I think we need a better process because we are a
public government entity. We should not act like the for-profit
insurance companies. We should be better at this. We should
move with much, much more compassion. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Timmons from
South Carolina.
Mr. Timmons. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank
Administrator Criswell for being here. You have been here a
long time today. It is about 6. This is what, your 7th, 8th
hour? We appreciate you being here to answer these questions. I
do not think any of us believe that you are responsible for the
conduct of some of the employees and/or leadership. Who knows,
we are going to get to the bottom of that, but I just
appreciate you being here today.
You have gotten a lot of the same questions all day, and I
am going to talk about something a little bit different. I am
going to talk about the media and how it responded to this
incident. So, on September 30, President Trump posts on X about
reports of FEMA not helping Republican areas, stating, ``I
don't like the reports that I am getting about the Federal
Government going out of their way to not help people in
Republican areas.'' And, you know, President Trump posts this
on social media, and the mainstream media, quite frankly, lost
their mind. So, let us just go over some of the responses.
October 1, here we have MSNBC: ``What kind of would-be leader
lies about a deadly natural disaster? When it comes to Donald
Trump and Hurricane Helene, it is not a rhetorical question.''
Then we have New York Times: ``The Former President Falsely
Accused the Biden Administration of Neglecting Areas That Had
Voted for Republicans.'' Then we go to CNN: ``Trump cites
baseless reports about anti-Republican bias in the North
Carolina response.'' And then, finally, Vox on October 8,
``Trump Falsely Suggested That Federal Government is Purposely
Neglecting Areas With Republican Voters, But None of These
Claims Are True.''
So, it seems that at least one of them was true and
possibly more. Ms. Washington was fired, allegedly for not
providing relief to hurricane victims because of their
political affiliation. We have documented that. I guess one
question for you is, what exactly was she fired for? So, I
mean, I guess the report is that she was terminated due to her
actions not adhering to FEMA's values. Is that correct?
Administrator Criswell. She was terminated once I saw the
written evidence that she was withholding assistance to people
in communities impacted by disasters because they had a Trump
sign. This goes against our core values and is inappropriate
behavior.
Mr. Timmons. OK. I just want to be sure we understand
because it sounds like a catch-all, the language of not
adhering to FEMA's values. It is kind of similar to conduct
unbecoming an officer in the UCMJ. But I guess my bigger issue
is that FEMA did not cite a specific policy that she violated.
So, is there a specific policy at FEMA that forbids
discrimination of any kind or is this just a catch-all?
Administrator Criswell. We definitely have policies that
prohibit the discrimination of anybody, whether it is the
delivery of our disaster programs or the delivery of our grant
programs that support communities to be better prepared for the
severe weather events that they are experiencing.
Mr. Timmons. And as you should, and I appreciate that. And
obviously, Ms. Washington has made a number of claims alleging
that this is systemic and that this is something that is not an
isolated incident. We just had another whistleblower allege
that there is additional information. So, I guess, you have
already agreed to keep all records of every kind to make sure
that this Committee and that the American public is able to get
to the bottom of whether this was Ms. Washington living out her
own political fantasy or whether there was a systemic
leadership-driven effort to deny relief to people that support
President Trump. So, again, you can--you have already done it
three to four times, probably 30 or 40 times. You can promise
that you are going to keep all information, all data, all
emails, all Teams messages for this Committee and for the
American public to get to the bottom of this?
Administrator Criswell. We archive all information as we
have brought in the Inspector General and have been conducting
our own investigation. All of that is available to them in the
course of their investigation.
Mr. Timmons. Well, thank you. It seems that we are going to
find a number of other people that have engaged in similar
behavior, and I can promise we will get to the bottom of all of
it after January 20. So, I mean, you know, anybody that has
engaged in this behavior at FEMA, I would encourage them to get
their resume ready and find new jobs because a new day is
coming. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Ms. Stansbury from New Mexico.
Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you,
Administrator. I know it has been a very long day, and,
actually, I am grateful for the commentary that was made just
before I began this opportunity to ask some questions and talk
about today's hearing because I think it is important to
emphasize the statements that were just made that a new day is
coming on January 20. And for any of you who are listening at
home, what they are referring to is the inauguration day when
the Trump Administration comes in and begins their purge of
civil servants.
And the reason why I am emphasizing that is because, yes,
we are here to discuss a very serious matter, and absolutely,
under no condition should politics be the reason why someone is
denied basic dignity, access to emergency resources, and comity
by our colleagues, whether that is emergency aid in their homes
or access to the bathroom here in the Capitol. And so, I think
it is important that we talk about what is actually motivating
this hearing.
Now, I want to take a moment. I am a former Federal
employee. I used to work at OMB. Many people know that here on
the Committee, but I think a lot of people do not fully
understand what FEMA does, its emergency response. And I want
to say thank you to you and all of your team during this
summer's historic and catastrophic fires in my district, in
Ruidoso and Mescalero Apache. You came to our district, your
staff were on the ground immediately, and you deployed every
possible resource, and I can tell you unequivocally, that it
was the best response I have ever seen to a natural disaster in
my lifetime. And I can tell my colleagues across the aisle,
that area is very much an area that votes Republican, and those
of us in New Mexico, we do not care. We do not care what your
political affiliation is. We are going to show up. If you are
in need, if you need help, if you are having an emergency, we
are going to show up. We are going to help.
And so, obviously, all of us are deeply disturbed to learn
of this incident. It sounds like the person was disciplined and
dismissed, and so we are grateful for that. But I find it odd
that we are having a hearing where my colleagues have spent how
many hours now 6, 8, I do not even know at this point--
gaslighting us. You know, like, here we are, we are having this
hearing about an incident which is totally unacceptable, and
yet the gentleman who is about to take office, the President-
elect, deliberately and outspokenly withheld aid from his
political rivals from the state of California, from Puerto
Rico, from communities that he knew did not vote for him. And
so, I just find it bizarre that we are even having this
hearing.
And one of the things that I do think is important to
emphasize is that this single most impactful thing that
happened during those two hurricanes that happened in the
October timeframe was the disinformation that dissuaded people
in emergency situations from going and getting individual aid
in their homes. I do not know how many people felt like they
did not get direct service from FEMA or other emergency
responders. But what we do know, because the data tells us, is
that there was a disinformation campaign by the candidate who
was running for President, Members of this Committee, who were
spreading disinformation. And we know that thousands of people
in North Carolina and across the South and in Florida did not
even go and ask for assistance, even though they qualified for
emergency assistance for housing, for hotels, for food, and
things like that. So, if we want to talk about threats to
emergency response, emergency management to our communities,
let us talk about one of the biggest threats, which is
disinformation and eating away at the emergency services that
help our communities.
And I want to just close on this note because I believe
that the purpose of this Committee is actually the real pretext
of what is going on here is that we know, as was just stated by
my friend across the aisle, that on January 20, a new day is
coming. And one of the things that we know is that a
conservative agenda was put forward by the Heritage Foundation
and others in Project 2025, and it called for the
privatization, shrinking, and the doing away with certain parts
of FEMA and emergency insurance. They are trying to distract
from the fact that they know that is what is coming, that is
part of the plan. They have not passed an emergency package
that they were calling for to help our communities just a
month-and-a-half ago, that suddenly, well, we cannot pass
legislation because we do not need to get it done.
So, I think it is really important that the American people
understand what this is. We are going to have to fight to
protect our Federal employees against what we know is going to
be an active purge. And I want to say to all of you and to all
of our first responders out there, thank you for the jobs that
you do. Thank you for the lives that you save. We appreciate
you so, so much, and we are going to fight for you.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Greene from
Georgia.
Ms. Greene. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While Democrats are
complaining about this lengthy hearing and about President
Trump coming in and slashing and reducing the size of
government, I just want to say, let the purge begin because
there are people that are homeless right now in Western North
Carolina, Eastern Tennessee, Georgia, and misinformation is not
the most dangerous thing facing us. It is right now pretty much
the Federal Government and the failure to the American people.
Ms. Criswell, first off, let us put this up.
[Chart]
Ms. Greene. This is the strategic plan you have posted on
the FEMA website. ``The goal and objectives laid out in the
2022-2026 strategic plan will help ensure success for our
Agency, the emergency management community, and those we serve.
The Plan outlines three bold ambitious goals.'' To meet this
challenge, you have listed as No. 1, instill equity as a
foundation of emergency management. Two, lead whole-of-
community in climate resilience. Three, promote and sustain a
ready FEMA and prepared Nation. Ms. Criswell, in FEMA's
strategic plan document that you crafted, you say, ``We must
instill equity as a foundation of emergency management. Systems
that foster inequality serve no one, especially in times of
crisis. We must recognize that disasters affect individuals and
communities differently, commit ourselves to reducing barriers
to access, and deliver equitable outcomes for all whom we
serve.'' The documents adds, ``underserved communities, as well
as specific identity groups, often suffer disproportionately
from disasters.'' However, thanks to whistleblowers that came
out, we found out that Trump supporters were also suffering,
apparently worse than others, because their homes were skipped
over.
And I know you said that you fired the employee that
skipped the homes that had Trump signs, but, you know, we do
not believe that was a one-time incidence, and now we know
there is another whistleblower that has come forward and said
that this happened in another state. And you see, the reason
why Americans do not believe this is a one-time situation is
because they are used to being treated as if they are second-
class citizens by the Biden Administration. Not only has this
happened in FEMA, when they were suffering under horrific
conditions after this hurricane, it has happened through the
Department of Justice, where the Department of Justice has been
used against pro-life activists, parents holding their school
boards accountable, and people that protested the election on
January 6. This Biden Administration, as a matter of fact, you
talk about equity, has treated half of this country and our
beliefs and how we feel completely inequitable.
So, on that note, I also want to bring up that you also
said, ``In administering our mitigation programs, we will keep
equity considerations top of mind, and we will include them in
the competitive scoring process for programs such as flood
mitigation assistance.'' What exactly is this scoring process
that you use when you are choosing organizations to give FEMA
funds to?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we have a number of
competitive grant programs that provide assistance across a
variety of areas. The ones that you are speaking of are part of
our mitigation program where we want to build resilience in
these communities so they can be stronger against some of the
impacts from the severe weather events we are seeing, but we
know that many communities do not have paid staff to write
grants. They do not have the resources to be competitive
against the larger urban areas. And so, we want to make sure
everybody, again, has access to the programs that we offer and
that we reduce those barriers to make sure that they come in on
a level playing field and can get access to make their
communities stronger.
Ms. Greene. Well, in the Fiscal Year of 2023, FEMA spent
nearly $1 billion, $789 million, to shelter illegals in the
United States. This past year it was about $641 million, and
this money largely is distributed through NGO's. Here is a
whole list of them.
[Chart]
Ms. Greene. I know it may be hard to see from there, but
this is a whole list of cities, states, and NGO's that received
millions and millions of dollars from FEMA. And this was to
house illegal aliens, not Americans, who, by the way, all that
money right there, that comes from Americans' bank accounts
when they write their checks to pay their taxes. Do you think
it is acceptable for billions of American taxpayer dollars to
be spent on housing people invading our country, but yet
Americans in North Carolina, Georgia, and Florida are still
homeless and have yet to fully receive support?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we have been
directed----
Ms. Greene. Is that equitable?
Administrator Criswell. We have been directed by Congress
to administer the shelter and services program. If Congress
chooses to change that direction, we will follow that law.
Ms. Greene. Congress is changing that direction,
absolutely. We are going to put American citizens first, not
migrants, because we do not believe that is equitable. You see,
the situation, housing illegal aliens, while Americans suffer,
with Americans taxpayer dollars, that is not equitable. As a
matter of fact, that is the biggest failure that could be ever
done to the American people. It is such a failure, it should be
treason, and that is how the American people feel. As a matter
of fact, regular people are so outraged, they are pissed,
furious at the fact that they feel completely failed by FEMA
that is funded by their money, and yet their own money went to
house illegal aliens that have invaded this country. Americans
are dead today because of the failures of our border, and FEMA
took care of these people. You see that we cannot allow that to
happen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Pressley from
Massachusetts.
Ms. Pressley. Administrator Criswell, thank you for your
stamina here today. It is good to see you again. Thank you for
joining us today and for your leadership. In the face of
repeated climate disasters, mass violence, and humanitarian
crises, the workers of FEMA represent the very best of public
service and deserve the support of Congress. Attempts by
Republicans--many of whom are climate and science deniers, in
the face of a frequency of events that were once anomalies, but
I digress--attempts by Republicans to question the integrity of
FEMA workers is a direct attack on FEMA's mission. Its mission
is especially vital for our constituents, many of whom face not
only the loss of homes and livelihoods, but also lasting
emotional and psychological trauma in the wake of such profound
loss.
Ms. Criswell, Administrator, 2 years ago, my bill, the
Post-Disaster Mental Health Response Act, was signed into law
by President Biden. It expands mental health supports during
emergency declarations. Survivors, in my opinion, deserve not
only to heal, but to thrive, and this law moves us closer to
that. As someone who is deeply committed to addressing trauma,
I am proud to have partnered with you and FEMA in this fight.
Bearing this in mind, can you expound, Administrator Criswell,
on how FEMA is incorporating long-term mental health care into
its recovery plans to support the survivors of recent
hurricanes?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, I appreciate your
partnership in pushing that bill forward because the impact
that these citizens have after a disaster is traumatizing, and
what we do not want to do is re-traumatize them with the
delivery of our programs. We have worked with our teams to
institute a trauma-informed care approach so we can understand
better how a community feels and how a community is reacting to
the impacts from the severe weather event.
We also have teams that go out into the field because our
staff also get traumatized with the day-in and day-out
conversations with people who have lost everything, and it
affects them personally, many of them survivors from previous
storms themselves. And so, this holistic mental health support
is so critical, and we have to de-stigmatize mental health
support in a way that encourages our staff, but also survivors,
to get the help that they need.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you, Administrator Criswell. When we
focus on healing, that is right, we do have to also acknowledge
the work of the healer, who is healing the healer? So, FEMA
workers themselves are exposed to immense stress and trauma
during their services, and as Mr. Moskowitz was alluding to
earlier, there is high fatigue and burnout and low morale
because these are extenuating circumstances with which to be
proximate to. What resources or initiatives does FEMA provide
to support the mental health of its own personnel after a
disaster?
Administrator Criswell. We have taken this very seriously
and we have our own mental health advisor at headquarters, but
we have also put in mental health advisors in each of our
regional offices. And we send teams out into the communities,
into our disaster recovery centers and our joint field offices
to make sure we are taking care of our people. And even back at
headquarters, we will do stand-downs to make sure that we are
providing the assistance that they need, making sure they know
the resources that are available to them, and that when we ask
somebody, how are you doing, we are not just doing it in
passing and we are really listening so we can understand the
stress that they may be going through and encouraging them to
take a break if you need a break, but come back so you can help
these people.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you for recognizing the importance of
that work and for your continued partnership. Now, my district,
the Massachusetts 7th, relies heavily on FEMA in times of
crisis. That is why earlier this year, I was proud to work with
municipal leaders to secure $2.5 million for the Cambridge
Community Center Resilience Hub and the Mill Creek Resilience
Program in Chelsea, and the Island End River Resilience Project
in Everett. Administrator Criswell, while I understand there
are many priorities before the new Administration steps in, can
I have your commitment that FEMA will work to quickly get these
funds to my district, and can you follow up with a point of
contact I can connect with to follow through on this?
Administrator Criswell. Congresswoman, we will certainly
follow up with you on the status of those programs and see
where they are at and what we can do to move them along.
Ms. Pressley. Thank you. Like every district represented in
this hearing room, the Massachusetts 7th depends on FEMA's
ability to do its job. We cannot turn the Agency into a
political game. Instead, we must ensure FEMA and its workers
have the resources, respect, and public confidence they need to
continue their work. Our constituents deserve nothing less.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Mrs. McClain.
Before I recognize Mrs. McClain, we want to publicly
congratulate Mrs. McClain for being elected the Majority Caucus
Conference Chair. That is a big deal, a big high-ranking
leader. We have an all-star cast of Members in both parties,
especially on our side of the aisle. So, congratulations,
Chairwoman.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Chairman Comer. And we recognize you for 5 minutes.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so
much.
There has been a pattern of discrimination, and I think
from what I have listened to, you want to clean it up today,
right? You do not approve of what happened. Neither side
approves of what happened. I mean, we have seen the
weaponization of the Justice Department against President
Trump, the Department of Education investigate religious-
affiliated universities, the DOJ and FBI targeted parents at
school board meetings, blah, blah, blah, goes on and on and on,
right? And I think we all want to clean it up, right? Would you
agree with that?
Administrator Criswell. Discrimination should never be
tolerated.
Mrs. McClain. One hundred percent. I appreciate that. Now,
there is a confirmed discrimination against conservatives at
FEMA, right? So, I just want to put up this timeline to make
sure I have everything correct, right?
[Chart]
Mrs. McClain. October 22, verbal guidance was given by Ms.
Washington to skip over, for lack of better words, Trump homes,
anybody that has a Trump sign. October 24, the whistleblower
comes forward. October 27, the Teams message that we have seen
was sent out. Twenty-eight of October, the complaint received
by FEMA's legal staff, and October 8, the story became public.
And then on November 9, you became aware of it and terminated
her position, correct?
Administrator Criswell. I think we are missing one step in
there, Congresswoman. I was made aware of it on November 7.
Mrs. McClain. November 7.
Administrator Criswell. I cannot see down below.
Mrs. McClain. Yes, it is not up here. November 7, and the
story became public on the 8th, and then on the 9th, right? I
am sure you had----
Administrator Criswell. I was made aware of it on November
7. I directed my team to get me additional information. They
presented that to me on November 9, which is when I directed
the termination of the employee.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you. Did Ms. Washington receive a
severance package?
Administrator Criswell. I would have to check. I do not
know.
Mrs. McClain. When could you get back to us? So, you have
no idea?
Administrator Criswell. I do not know what the terms of her
termination were.
Mrs. McClain. Who would?
Administrator Criswell. I would have to check with my
mission support team.
Mrs. McClain. Your mission support team, OK. So, who gave
Ms. Washington the authority to give the verbal guidance?
Administrator Criswell. I do not know what motivated Ms.
Washington to give that guidance. The direction that she gave
was unacceptable and did not align with the way we conduct our
business to help the American people.
Mrs. McClain. What was her title?
Administrator Criswell. Crew lead.
Mrs. McClain. Crew lead, and how many crew leads did you
have?
Administrator Criswell. We had several crew leads. I would
have to get back to you with a specific number, but it is one
of the lowest levels of supervision we have.
Mrs. McClain. So, Ms. Washington had a supervisor?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mrs. McClain. And maybe even a supervisor above that
supervisor, right?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mrs. McClain. There may be layers upon layers. OK. Why do
you think she felt empowered to give that guidance?
Administrator Criswell. I cannot speak to what motivated
her to give that guidance. What I can say is I was made aware
of this on November 7. It was not acceptable behavior. When I
was given the written evidence of her direction on November 9,
we directed her termination.
Mrs. McClain. Who is her supervisor?
Administrator Criswell. I do not know specifically who her
supervisor is. I know that this individual, Chad, that is in
her supervisory chain, but I do not know if that was her
specific supervisor.
Mrs. McClain. Have you done an investigation on this since
November 9?
Administrator Criswell. We are currently doing an
investigation.
Mrs. McClain. Currently doing.
Administrator Criswell. It started on October 28 and it was
referred to the Office of Special Counsel.
Mrs. McClain. So, as of October 28, we have done a bunch of
investigations, but we have no idea who her supervisor is?
Administrator Criswell. No, I said I personally do not know
who her specific supervisor is. I have an Agency of over 22,000
employees. I do not know the supervisor.
Mrs. McClain. And you have supervisors underneath you. Do
you know if anything happened to her supervisor?
Administrator Criswell. This is currently under
investigation. The only written evidence we had is from Ms.
Washington.
Mrs. McClain. So, we terminated Ms. Washington 3 weeks
after you were made aware of it. Thank God that you were made
aware of it or this pattern could have continuously gone on
because we have layers upon layers, right? You have 22,000
people. I am sure you have a lot of middle management, right?
So, you have a crew lead. I do not know what your hierarchical
structure is, but you have layers of management before it gets
to you, correct?
Administrator Criswell. We follow a very----
Mrs. McClain. That is a pretty simple question. Do you have
layers of management before it gets to you?
Administrator Criswell. We follow a very, you know----
Mrs. McClain. That is a great answer.
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. Accepted chain of
command practice.
Mrs. McClain. Wonderful. So, I will use your word. You have
a chain of command before it gets to you, but you have no clue
about what has happened to that chain of command and why
somebody would let that happen under their watch. Do you think
that is worthy of investigating?
Administrator Criswell. I absolutely think it is worthy.
Mrs. McClain. Wonderful. So, when can I expect a report on
what has happened to those people?
Administrator Criswell. Which is why I have directed the IG
to investigate this.
Mrs. McClain. When can we expect that report? What
consequences would you expect for a supervisor who knew this
was going on? Would you expect them to be terminated as well?
Administrator Criswell. We have an ongoing investigation,
and if we find any evidence that shows that there are
additional violations of the way we conduct our business, we
will certainly take appropriate action to terminate----
Mrs. McClain. And would appropriate action be termination?
Administrator Criswell. Through termination.
Mrs. McClain. Wonderful. And when can we expect this
report?
Administrator Criswell. And we have asked the IG to do this
report, and I can connect with them.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you.
Chairman Comer. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now
recognizes Mr. Goldman from New York.
Mr. Goldman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to make
sure I understand what 4 hours and 20 minutes of fuss is about.
Ms. Washington was a crew lead charged with helping to provide
assistance to individuals in the following of the hurricane. Is
that right?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Goldman. OK. You said that FEMA has 22,000 employees?
Administrator Criswell. More than.
Mr. Goldman. More than 22,000, OK. And as I understand it,
as soon as you saw verified, written evidence that Ms.
Washington used partisanship in executing her job, you
immediately terminated her?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Goldman. And you are now doing an investigation to
determine whether anyone else was involved in this?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Goldman. Seems like that is the right thing to do. You
have a bad apple out of 22,000, and you identified it, and you
fired it. I do not understand what the massive fuss here is. It
is obviously, as you say, unacceptable conduct and you acted
immediately. So, I have not been in here all day, but I have
heard the same questions 5 times myself. I am sure you have
heard them many more times, but it does beg the question about
what happens to FEMA if partisanship bleeds into its mission,
and I want to bring up two examples from the last
Administration.
Hurricane Maria, you may recall, in September 2017, hit
Puerto Rico, resulting in nearly 3,000 deaths. Donald Trump was
President then, and he blocked the full release of the
emergency assistance appropriated by Congress in 2018, and
permitted only a small percentage of the money to go to the
island. He insisted that Puerto Rico was not in need of that
assistance and alleged that the death tolls had been
politically inflated ``to make me look as bad as possible.'' In
November 2018, California suffered the most destructive and
deadliest wildfire in the state's history. Donald Trump,
according to his own former National Security Council staffer,
refused to approve disaster aid because the state of California
had a Democratic Governor and did not vote for him. In fact,
this former staffer had to go and pull out the voting records
from Orange County, where the fire was, to show Donald Trump
that Orange County had more supporters for Trump than the
entire state of Iowa, so that he would ultimately release the
funding. Now, that appears to me to inject partisanship in
administering disaster relief. Is that your understanding of
what I just recited to you, Ms. Criswell?
Administrator Criswell. I was not the FEMA Administrator
during that time, and I would not care to comment on that.
Mr. Goldman. Well, I think it is pretty self-evident that
that is exactly what it was, and this now has continued in the
recent disasters. We are here focused on one rogue employee who
was justifiably and correctly fired, but Donald Trump went on a
misinformation campaign to slander your organization. He at one
point said that President Biden was sleeping and he was not
responding to Georgia Governor Brian Kemp. Brian Kemp
responded, ``The President just called me yesterday afternoon,
and I missed him, and I called him right back. And he just
said, hey, what do you need, and I told him, you know, we have
got what we need. We will work through the Federal process.''
How about this one? Governor Ron DeSantis, ``Everything we have
asked for from President Biden, he has approved, and we do
think we will get more approvals.'' Republican Governor Brian
Kemp of Georgia, ``We got what we need from FEMA. We have had
FEMA embedded with us since, you know, a day or two before the
storm hit.'' Governor Glenn Youngkin, Republican of Virginia,
``I am incredibly appreciative of the rapid response and the
cooperation from the Federal team at FEMA.'' Yet Donald Trump
was spreading misinformation that FEMA was not doing its job.
And then, the last few seconds, I would like for you to
explain how that misinformation hindered FEMA's efforts to
provide disaster relief to those in need.
Administrator Criswell. Any type of misinformation that
creates some type of mistrust in the Federal Government creates
a lack of opportunity for individuals that have been impacted
by these disasters to get the assistance that they need and
that they are eligible for. And we want to be able to reach out
to everybody that has been impacted and assure them that we are
there to support them. They should register for assistance, and
we can work with them to help them on their road to recovery.
Mr. Goldman. And do you think that there were some people
who did not receive disaster assistance because of this
misinformation by Donald Trump?
Administrator Criswell. We will never know if there are
people that should have applied and did not, but there is the
possibility that individuals may not have applied for
assistance because of what they were reading across social
medium.
Mr. Goldman. Well, there are plenty of publications and
media reports about that being the case, and it is a terrific
shame, and thank you very much, Administrator Criswell, for all
of your hard work during difficult times. I yield back.
Chairman Comer. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Boebert from
Colorado.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. Criswell, I
appreciate you being here today. My colleague from Tennessee,
Congressman Tim Burchett, had asked you about funding for
illegals, those who have come into our country, entered our
country illegally, and who are present for some of these
storms. And under oath you stated that that only American
citizens could apply for additional funding through FEMA. Do
you stand by that?
Administrator Criswell. American citizens and eligible
legal aliens can----
Ms. Boebert. Legal aliens, those who have come through the
ports of entry legally and have their green card or anything
else. Well, we have illegal aliens who have entered our
country, and FEMA itself has reported $380 million in
additional funding to communities receiving migrants. FEMA
awards $110 million to the Emergency Food and Shelter Program
to assist migrants. Another FEMA notification: ``Department of
Homeland Security Announces Distribution of More Than $77
Million in congressional Funding for Communities Receiving
Migrants.'' Politico says, ``New York City to Get $104.6
Million From FEMA,'' and the list goes on and on. Even the U.S.
Embassy in El Salvador chimed in, and so I would say that there
is a quite a bit of money going toward illegal aliens.
And Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask for this to be
submitted into the record, these headlines here.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Boebert. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Now, Ms. Criswell, we
have heard that Ms. Washington said that she is being used as a
scapegoat, and I kind of lean to believe that because here
today we have this list of chain of commands. We have
supervisors who are all around her, yet we cannot point to any
specific supervisor who is being held accountable here. We have
heard that there is an investigation. We hear about
investigations all the time. Ms. Criswell, I have people sit
here in front of this Committee and tell us all about
investigations, and then we never receive any information from
that. We have seen the devastation of American citizens who
have been impacted by these hurricanes and they want answers.
So, is Ms. Washington being used as a scapegoat for carrying
out the directive to not go to homes with Trump signs?
Administrator Criswell. I received information on November
7 that there was an employee that had directed homes with Trump
signs and avoided----
Ms. Boebert. Correct, and you terminated her, but are there
others who are going to be held accountable? Now, let me ask
you this. OK. You have the investigation that is been asked of
you. What are you going to do to preserve this investigation
and ensure that it continues in the next administration?
Administrator Criswell. We will fully cooperate with the IG
if they choose to take on this investigation. It has also been
elevated to the Office of Special Counsel.
Ms. Boebert. Sorry, my time is running out. And in this
internal investigation or outside, if you never find anyone who
is actually culpable for this, are you going to take any blame?
Administrator Criswell. We are conducting ongoing
investigations----
Ms. Boebert. Are you going to take any blame if no one is
found?
Administrator Criswell. If we find anyone that has been
violating the way we deliver assistance, we will take
appropriate actions.
Ms. Boebert. I will move on. I am sorry, you are not
answering my question directly. So, this is a culture that the
Biden Administration has allowed to cultivate as, and I believe
that you are a part of this, as FEMA. And I would hope that you
would take responsibility for allowing your employees to
discriminate those who they help based on politics rather than
just dismissing it on an investigation. Now, are there barriers
within FEMA between public and private partnerships or
relationships, or is FEMA only focused on blocking resources
from Trump supporters? Can private citizens help in an
emergency?
Administrator Criswell. The actions of one individual are
not representative of the way FEMA delivers programs.
Ms. Boebert. Can FEMA work with private citizens in an
emergency to get resources to American citizens?
Administrator Criswell. I think you would have to give me
some specific examples of what you mean.
Ms. Boebert. OK. So, we have Elon Musk. He said, ``My blood
is boiling.'' Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit for the
record this article that was printed in regard to Elon Musk as
being furious over FEMA blocking SpaceX engineers.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Ms. Boebert. So, when Elon Musk is furious that he cannot
get Starlink delivered to folks; when I have Congressman Cory
Mills who has to deploy a mission team to bring 26 systems of
Starlink to those who are suffering; when the missing persons
list is 1,500 people before Starlink is brought to them by a
sitting Member of Congress, not by FEMA, and that number goes
down to 600 once communication is able to begin; when a Member
of Congress has to bring 23,000 pounds of supplies; when Elon
Musk is saying we want to get internet, we want to get
connectivity and communication to citizens, we want to bring
supplies, and yet FEMA is blocking supplies, FEMA is seizing
supplies; when I have a senior high school student from Rifle,
Colorado, Cody Wyatt, who is driving across country to get
supplies because FEMA has not been seen in 11 days in North
Carolina or in Pensacola, Florida; when they are not present,
can citizens help or is FEMA going to continue to block private
citizens and refuse to help those based on their political
affiliation?
Administrator Criswell. FEMA has never blocked any
assistance from moving around any of the states that were
impacted. In fact, when Mr. Musk released that statement, we
had over 70 Starlink satellite terminals in and around North
Carolina, exceeding what he had already said.
Ms. Boebert. For 11 days, Congressman Cory Mills did not
see a single FEMA representative or truck, and I have witnesses
as well in Florida who did not see any help from FEMA for days.
I would like there to be----
Administrator Criswell. We were on the ground before the
disaster started.
Ms. Boebert. We will see in your investigation.
Administrator Criswell. You can read in my testimony.
Ms. Boebert. We will see in your investigation if it is
ever released.
Administrator Criswell. I have details in my testimony, my
written testimony, that shows our exact response. You can read
the details there.
Chairman Comer. Before, I recognize Mr. Burlison, the
Ranking Member has a unanimous consent request.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Three articles here
from Reuters, an article dated October 23, ``Fact Check: FEMA
Disaster Funds Not Diverted to Migrants By Biden
Administration;'' Washington Post, October 4, 2024, ``No, Biden
Did Not Take FEMA Relief Money to Use on Migrants, But Donald
Trump Did;'' and from Axios, an article dated August 27, 2019,
entitled, ``Trump Reallocates $155 Million From FEMA Disaster
Relief to Fund Ice;'' and then finally, one other one, which is
a FEMA press release from October 1, 2024, entitled ``DHS
Announces $210 Million of Additional Funds to Protect Faith-
Based Institutions and Non-Profits Against Targeted Attacks.''
Thanks so much.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Chairman Comer. The Chair recognizes Mr. Burlison from
Missouri.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Chairman Comer, and, Ms. Criswell,
thank you for being here with us today. The underlying facts
behind why we are here has got me thinking about, you know, how
did we end up at this point, and I think it did not happen
overnight. This is not just one anecdotal story. This is a part
of a long list of grievances that the American people have
experienced. The whole thing is just very, very familiar. The
names change, the agencies change, the bureaucrats change, but
the people on the receiving end of it are still the same. You
see, the bigger the government, the smaller the individual, and
it is these individuals who feel like, they do not feel like
it, but they have been told that they are garbage and they are
treated like garbage. And when the President of the United
States uses words like, you know, like has been used--
``deplorables,'' ``garbage,'' ``Nazis''--then one can expect
your agencies to treat people in the way in which you are
talking about them.
As you know, we have a FEMA supervisor that expressly
directed volunteers to go door-to-door offering assistance, to
bypass the homes that had Trump campaign signs. These are
American citizens. These are taxpayers. These are our
countrymen and women who just lost everything, all their
possessions, and they are being treated like garbage.
And look, I know that you have said, and I think you have
done well today, that political discrimination is not tolerated
within the Agency. But it looks to me, and I think it is clear
to a lot of Americans, that they feel the same way after the
election earlier this month, and I think that is why the
election results ended up the way they did because it is the
sentiment of the American people. Because they feel like they
can relate to the guy who went through all of what was clearly
a weaponized prosecution for--whether it is the Department of
Justice, the American citizens see that while he is being
attacked by the Department of Justice, they have been attacked.
We had concerned parents at school board meetings labeled as
terrorists. We had Catholics labeled as terrorists. We had
excessive sentences handed out for pro-life activists, and we
had the aggressive targeting of President Biden's political
opponents while slow-walking the Hunter Biden criminal
investigation.
And this is not new, because during the Obama years, we had
the IRS was used to target conservative groups, remember? I
mean, we had Lois Lerner and that Agency stopping the attempts
for groups that had the word ``Tea Party'' or ``Patriot `` from
being able to get tax-exempt status, or how about during COVID
when the Biden Administration pressured social media platforms
to censor ``disinformation about COVID-19,'' including
alternative treatment options, or their concerns were forced
vaccinations or if somebody had the idea that it leaked from a
U.S. Government-funded coronavirus lab in Wuhan rather than
some animal in a wet market.
The American people, who have been called garbage, we saw a
Federal Government do more to stop the distribution of
ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine than it did fentanyl. We saw
all of these and more. We saw rent-a-riot campaigns like BLM
and Antifa not being prosecuted for all of their fires and
destruction, but yet when conservatives have a protest, it is
called an insurrection, and grandmas and grandpas who supported
Trump are still being thrown in jail. We saw financial
institutions work with law enforcement to mark Americans as
domestic terror threats for buying religious texts or firearms
or supporting Donald Trump. There are so many other examples.
Trump, himself, has been attacked by the Department of
Justice--Jack Smith, Fani Willis, all this lawfare. We have the
FBI censoring information about the Hunter Biden laptop. We
have the Democratic Party laundering fraudulent oppo research,
like the bogus Steele dossier, to journalists, and the
intelligence agencies all back them up, siding with a
particular political party. The whole thing was so absurd and
stupid, but again, this culture of political bias against
conservatives and Trump is how this is cultivated.
The American people want and they deserve their government
to be non-partisan. They want their government to be fair. They
want justice to be blind. And they are frustrated when they see
their government weaponized against them because they dare to
support the guy who said let us drain the swamp. And so, this
did not happen overnight. It came from a long litany of events
where some Americans were treated like garbage, and I cannot
wait for DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, to get
in under the next Administration and start making this
government work more efficiently, because this town does need a
purge. This town needs an enema, and honestly, I cannot wait.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes Mr. Higgins from Louisiana.
Mr. Higgins. Difficult testimony to follow.
Chairman Comer. That is a tough act.
Mr. Higgins. Ms. Criswell, I thank you for being before us
today. Mr. Chairman, I have to say, to my colleagues on both
sides of the aisle, I have had extensive communications and
interactions with Ms. Criswell's team, and she has personally
responded to many of my official inquires. We have worked
through hundreds and hundreds of very complicated claims after
Hurricanes Laura and Delta that hit the heart of my district in
the middle of COVID. It was the worst thing you could possibly
imagine. Very powerful hurricanes, a Category 5 and a Category
4, back-to-back, 1 month apart in the summer of 2020. It was
incredibly difficult to respond to, and so I am just going to
say that through the course of the years, I have found that Ms.
Criswell's team has been about as responsive as you can find
any large bureaucracy anywhere in the world. And I would
challenge any colleagues that would question the good lady's
character because I have found her character to be fine. She
runs an organization that many of us are almost paid to hate,
you know, but it is 22,000 employees, which sometimes things
can get out of hand. But I have to say, ma'am, that your
response to my office through the years has been as excellent
as it can be under difficult circumstances.
Ma'am, when FEMA interacts with a particular government
entity or private entity after a disaster, and planning is made
and funding is shared for rebuilding, sometimes extensions for
work are required. Is that correct?
Administrator Criswell. Correct.
Mr. Higgins. If the schedule for reconstruction is
interrupted by supply chains and workforce restrictions, things
like that, the entity that is in partnership with FEMA to
restore their services, they have the opportunity to ask for an
extension, correct?
Administrator Criswell. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. OK. I have a letter, Mr. Chairman, and request
unanimous consent to submit, from Lake Charles Harbor and
Terminal District regarding just such a request for extension
for permanent work to be performed and I would ask that your
office taken it into full consideration, ma'am.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Administrator Criswell. Absolutely, Senator--Congressman.
Mr. Higgins. Thank you, ma'am. I will deliver that to you.
This deal with--it was just outrageous, these reports that we
had of a FEMA employee bypassing Trump supporters. I found it
to be outrageous. How did it strike you, ma'am?
Administrator Criswell. It is completely unacceptable, and
it is heartbreaking to know that anybody impacted by Hurricanes
Helene or Milton would have not been given the opportunity to
get the assistance that they are eligible for.
Mr. Higgins. Do the people of North Carolina, and Florida,
and Georgia, and South Carolina, and Tennessee have your
unwavering commitment to do everything in your power to help
them recover?
Administrator Criswell. Absolutely. We will be with all of
these communities every step of the way throughout their
recovery.
Mr. Higgins. OK. So, I think it is fair that we hold you to
that commitment, don't you?
Administrator Criswell. Yes.
Mr. Higgins. Yes, ma'am. And regarding this behavior out of
this employee, I think you handled that. I mean, you discovered
the behavior on 1 day, you confirmed the behavior the next day,
and you fired your employee the following day, and then you
initiated an investigation to look for what, if there is
anything deeper, like some cultural existence that you are not
aware of this type of behavior. Is that what your investigation
is seeking?
Administrator Criswell. We are doing additional
investigations to be certain where the direction came from, and
if we find----
Mr. Higgins. If you find more of that, will more people get
fired?
Administrator Criswell. If we find any additional evidence
that there was discrimination against a political party----
Mr. Higgins. Thank you. Quickly, you had to question how
she came to that. Could you address for us, please, what she
meant when she said avoidance first and then de-escalation, and
that she mentioned avoidance several times in her statement.
What is that within FEMA?
Administrator Criswell. Our teams go into the field and go
into communities door-to-door and talk to people, and we
provide them safety training. It is a reactive training if they
feel threatened or harassed in any way that, first, they need
to avoid that harassing situation, and if needed----
Mr. Higgins. But have you ever instructed any of your
people to, like, presume there is going to be conflict and,
therefore, avoid a particular type of citizen?
Administrator Criswell. This training is all about reacting
to perceived threats. Never has it been directed to be
proactive----
Mr. Higgins. All right.
Administrator Criswell [continuing]. To avoid a situation.
Mr. Higgins. Mr. Chairman, thank you for this hearing. My
time has expired. I yield. Thank you, ma'am.
Chairman Comer. The gentleman yields. The Chair recognizes
Mr. Langworthy from New York.
Mr. Langworthy. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Administrator Criswell, the reports of this FEMA employee
directing volunteers to bypass properties of Trump supporters
is an absolutely disgusting affront to the mission of FEMA in
the trust of the American people in all of their Federal
Government. FEMA exists to serve all Americans at times in
their darkest hours, in their times of crisis, and this has got
to be delivered without bias or favoritism or despite any level
of discrimination. Yet here we are discussing allegations that
there was political discrimination tainting FEMA's response.
I mean, I really appreciate you being as forthright as you
have been today, but after Hurricanes Helene and Milton,
countless Americans lost their homes, their businesses, and
their livelihoods. Their worlds were turned upside down, and
FEMA should have been the lifeline. It should be a beacon of
hope for any community that has been ravaged by disaster. And
if this situation was flipped and this was happening to those
that supported Kamala Harris, the outrage across this country
would have been deafening. You know, the media would have been
going crazy, yet we did not have that same level of outrage.
This is symptomatic of a dangerous and growing culture of
bias throughout this entire Federal Government, and I would
hope that FEMA would be the last Agency to ever contribute to
that, because you truly are dealing with American citizens at
their darkest hour. We need to be about Americans helping
Americans, period, end of story, no matter where you are, where
you come from, or who you support for President of United
States. When disaster response has been corrupted by political
bias and gamesmanship, the American public's faith in this
Federal Government gets broken permanently. And it is really
tough to erase that stain.
So, I take you at face value that, you know, you are a
person of action, you want to fix this. But what bothers me is
how this employee got to this moment and what culture existed
around them where they thought it was OK to guide other
employees to say, no, skip those houses. I mean, are you aware
of any of your employees that felt that Trump supporters were
dangerous to approach their homes? I mean, like, what was in
your initial portions of your investigation leading to the
termination of this employee? I mean, what was it that, you
know, she expressed as to why we would avoid these Trump
households?
Administrator Criswell. I cannot speak to the motivations
that drove her to send that message, but the actions that she
took were completely unacceptable. We have initiated ongoing
investigations, and if we find any further evidence that this
is broader than this incident, then we will take appropriate
action.
Mr. Langworthy. I mean, since you have been at FEMA, has
political affiliation ever been classified by FEMA or any other
Federal Agency to your knowledge is a dangerous community
trend?
Administrator Criswell. Never.
Mr. Langworthy. OK. Did your employees and volunteers go to
properties with any signage or flags or memorabilia supporting
Kamala Harris or any of the other Democratic candidates running
for office across country?
Administrator Criswell. Other than the information that I
have from this one incident, we have gone to tens of thousands
of homes across all six states impacted.
Mr. Langworthy. So, yes or no, are you aware of any
directive from supervisors of FEMA to avoid properties with any
Democratic or Republican signage for that matter?
Administrator Criswell. I have given no evidence and I am
not aware at this time.
Mr. Langworthy. OK. I think that this investigation is
really important, that you are on, and I am really going to be
looking for a keen interest to the final product, you know, as
you finish that product. Any timeline as when that
investigation might conclude?
Administrator Criswell. We have reached out to the
Inspector General to conduct the investigation. I cannot speak
to what their timeline will be.
Mr. Langworthy. And it is really important to restore faith
for all Americans in many parts of the Federal Government, but
FEMA in particular. So, I really look forward to hearing from
you more in the future.
In my remaining time, I would like to quickly revisit a
letter that I sent earlier this year urging FEMA to update its
methodology for snowstorm-related reimbursements. In its
response, FEMA says that it is working with NOAA on potential
updates, and as winter approaches, lake effect snow season in
Buffalo New York is coming, it is crucial that, to my
constituents in Western New York, that we know that FEMA is
taking proactive steps to ensure the most current standards
guide Federal assistance decisions. Can you give an update on
any progress FEMA and NOAA have made in their efforts to
modernize this methodology?
Administrator Criswell. I know following the historic snow
season that we have had last year and previous years, our teams
have been working on that, but I would have to get back to you
specifically as to where that is at.
Mr. Langworthy. OK. We look forward to following up. Thank
you very much, Director, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Comer. Thank you, gentleman. And I assume the
Inspector General is watching this hearing. This Committee has
jurisdiction over the inspectors general. I cannot encourage
the Inspector General enough not to take this investigation
seriously and report back to the Ranking Member and myself as
soon as possible. The Chair now recognizes Mr. McCormick from
Georgia.
Mr. McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for allowing
me to be part of this very important discussion. I appreciate
all the first responders across the Nation who have done their
very best, including those people who are part of FEMA, to help
those people most in need, especially during these dire times.
I think we really owe it to the people to be accountable for
where the money goes and who are helping, and I think that is
what this is really about. One of the interesting things that
came across when we were reviewing your budget. Can you tell me
what your annual budget is for disaster relief out of FEMA?
Administrator Criswell. In this continuing resolution, we
were given just over $20 billion for Fiscal Year 2025.
Mr. McCormick. So, it is not $38.2 billion. It is $20
billion. Is that what you said?
Administrator Criswell. Out of my overall budget, just over
$20 billion is for disaster relief.
Mr. McCormick. OK, specifically, and according to your
September report that you submitted, what percentage of that
went toward COVID?
Administrator Criswell. I do not have the report in front
of me, sir, but the COVID reimbursements are part of the
Disaster Relief Fund, reimbursements to communities that had
impact, so I would have to get back to you on this.
Mr. McCormick. According to your report, in September, 40
percent of your budget went toward COVID relief. That is not
talked about very much. Now I am an ER doc. I got my MBA. I was
actually serving on the front lines of the COVID pandemic
during the entire pandemic. Can you tell me when the pandemic
was no longer a pandemic according to the President of the
United States?
Administrator Criswell. We closed the incident period in
May of last year.
Mr. McCormick. OK. And yet, we spent 40 percent of our
budget from this year's budget on COVID Relief instead of
hurricanes and other things. Is that correct?
Administrator Criswell. Again, I do not have the numbers in
front of me----
Mr. McCormick. According to your report----
Administrator Criswell. but those are major disaster
declarations that were eligible for reimbursement.
Mr. McCormick. You can prove me wrong by submitting papers
later on, but according to your report submitted just 2 months
ago, we spent 40 percent. I want that number to sink in. Forty
percent of our budget for disaster relief was spent on COVID,
which was gone a long time ago. I was there when it started. I
was there when it ended. I know what the reaction was. I know
where they overspent on it. I know where the waste, fraud, and
abuse was. It makes me sick to my stomach. It is one of the
main reasons I am here in Congress, and to see a disaster
relief spent on something that was behind us, probably paying
off a lot of waste, fraud, and abuse, in my opinion, quite
frankly, and I would love to see that reviewed by Oversight
because this is what is wrong with government. They spend 40
percent of the budget on something that happened 2 years ago,
and we have not enough money to deal with what is happening
right now.
And quite frankly, the whole COVID relief thing, I saw
where the money was spent. I saw how haphazardly it was spent,
and I saw who it benefited and who it did not. And I know a lot
of millionaires and billionaires that benefited greatly off
that money was spent from the U.S. Government taxpayers. And
that is what I am very upset about, and that is why I am here
today as part of the COVID Committee as a doctor who watched
this stuff happen firsthand.
And now to see the budget, I think it is very dishonest. I
know what happened with somebody who skipped over a Trump
house. I get that, and I think it is environmental as far as
the way that the prevailing attitude was. I understand you
fired somebody, which I am very happy about. I understand you
are looking into other people that might be at odds with what
you are supposed to accomplish. But to have a budget that has
dedicated almost half of their budget to something that ended a
long time ago, can you explain that?
Administrator Criswell. All 50 states received a disaster
declaration in the previous Administration to support their
reimbursements for the cost experience from 2019.
Mr. McCormick. For this year?
Administrator Criswell. These are all payments from the
disaster declarations declared during the previous
Administration in 2020.
Mr. McCormick. So, you mean to tell me that you had to do
it?
Administrator Criswell. These were Presidentially declared
disasters, just like all disasters, and as people----
Mr. McCormick. So, you are saying, yes, you had to do it.
Is that correct?
Administrator Criswell. Yes, as communities turn in their
bills----
Mr. McCormick. So, you were by law abided to spend 40
percent of your budget on COVID response?
Administrator Criswell. We are abided by law to reimburse
jurisdictions that received a Presidential disaster declaration
to reimburse them for the costs as eligible under the law.
Mr. McCormick. So, I am new to Congress, Mr. Chairman. Mr.
Chairman, I am new to Congress. I am not really had that
experience that you have, but as an Oversight guy who spent a
lot of your time getting to the bottom of these egregious
errors, and you can fact check me on the other side of the
aisle, too. But I have a hard time believing that, by law, we
had to spend 40 percent of a budget on disaster relief for this
year based on something that ended a couple years ago.
Chairman Comer. I agree.
Mr. McCormick. I am just trying to figure out where that
went, and that is why I am here in Congress. And I hope you can
work with me--and I hope you can work with me--to get the
bottom of why we have those kind of stupid spending laws in
America and we can end those things for good, because that is
the biggest part of the problem of government as I see it.
Thank you, and with that, Mr. Chairman, I rest.
Chairman Comer. Very good question. The Chair now
recognizes our last questioner, Mr. Steube from Florida.
Mr. Steube. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
allowing me to join the Committee today in this important
hearing. And as I assume that the Director knows, my district
has been devastated by six major hurricanes in just the last 2
years. Just a few months ago, my district experienced three
major hurricanes in 3 months and two in 2 weeks. A little over
2 weeks after Hurricane Helene took out my district with a 5-to
7-foot storm surge, Hurricane Milton, a Category 3 hurricane,
made landfall in my district with a 7-to 8-foot storm surge and
over 100-mile-an-hour wind, some of the same businesses that I
visited and ripped drywall out of because of Hurricane Helene,
2 weeks later, got flooded again.
So, as you can imagine, my district, both Republicans and
Democrats and Floridians in general, were outraged to learn
that FEMA had been avoiding conservatives, Trump supporters,
white males, et cetera. Ranking Member Raskin in the beginning
of this hearing stated, ``No one should play partisan politics
with disaster aid,'' but that is exactly what your Agency has
been doing. In the aftermath of such devastation, the American
people expect and trust that FEMA will administer disaster
relief in a fair manner. Unfortunately, we recently learned
that a FEMA Supervisor in Florida named Marni Washington
directed subordinates to skip homes displaying support for
President Trump. Despite your testimony, this now former
employee claims this was a widespread practice under a policy
she termed avoidance. No matter who initiated this avoidance
policy, it was a malicious act that resulted from a corrupt
culture within FEMA.
Administrator Criswell, I wrote you a letter on November 15
in which I asked for information related to this incident. Mr.
Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter the letter into the
record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Steube. Although I asked for my answers by November 25,
perhaps you have enough information to at least answer one of
my questions, and I have heard some of your answers are related
to this. Well, let me just ask it as I asked it in the letter.
Is it Agency policy for FEMA canvassers to practice avoidance
in certain circumstances?
Administrator Criswell. We provide safety training to our
staff as they are going out into communities, door-to-door, and
part of that safety training includes how to avoid or de-
escalate potentially harassing situations in reaction. None of
that is directed at being proactive to avoid certain situations
that they may perceive without an actual threat.
Mr. Steube. But it is subjective, right? It is subjective
on the person canvassing. So, if that person is a Democrat,
which you are in a Democratic administration. You are a
Democratic appointee. You are probably hiring mostly Democrats
over Republicans. You have a Democratic administration. If it
is a Democrat who already believes that a Trump supporter, that
a white, Caucasian person is not what they would not feel
comfortable talking to that person, because it is subjective in
nature, they would skip that house to avoid that. They could do
that.
Administrator Criswell. No, that would be an unfair
characterization.
Mr. Steube. Well, that is not what other people have been
saying that has been reported. When did this policy go into
place? Did you start this policy?
Administrator Criswell. This policy has been in place since
we have had these teams going into the field as they encounter
people all the time, and it is designed to be reactive.
Mr. Steube. When was this specific avoidance policy put in
place?
Administrator Criswell. I would have to get back to you,
sir.
Mr. Steube. OK. In media appearances, Ms. Washington
alleges that she was instructed by a FEMA supervisor named Chad
Hershey to practice avoidance. As part of your investigation,
have you interviewed Mr. Hershey?
Administrator Criswell. I personally have not interviewed
Mr. Hershey, but there are ongoing investigations.
Mr. Steube. Well, I would ask the IG to interview him.
There were 13 people on the text chain with Ms. Washington.
Have they given sworn statements in the course of your
department's investigation?
Administrator Criswell. I would have to check with the
Office of Professional Responsibility as to who they have
gotten statements from.
Mr. Steube. Can you provide the names on that text message
list, the 13 people that works for FEMA, to this Committee to
further this investigation--oversight over your----
Administrator Criswell. We will work with this Committee to
provide information, as appropriate, as part of this
investigation.
Mr. Steube. Earlier today, in the Transportation Committee,
you stated, ``There is not a widespread culture problem at
FEMA.'' Unfortunately, the evidence contradicts your assertion.
And in a report published by The Daily Signal, a former FEMA
employee--so this is not Ms. Washington, this is somebody
else--a former FEMA employee who spent over 5 years at your
Agency stated, ``FEMA is rotten to a core. It is over-staffed,
it is bureaucratic, and they don't really help anybody.''
Referring to the Trump flag incident, the former employee said,
``They were told to avoid Trump, avoid any house that has a
Trump sign, in a verbal meeting. I have seen that happen.'' We
were told, ``don't go into any house that looks suspicious.''
They would use words like ``hick,'' ``cowboys,'' ``rednecks.''
You can change that over to Trump supporters in MAGA.'' So, I
guess that explains why FEMA has never stopped in my house over
the six hurricanes that we have had because I check all three
of your boxes: a Trump supporter, a white male, and a cowboy.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to enter The Daily
Signal article into the record.
Chairman Comer. Without objection, so ordered.
Mr. Steube. After the initial story broke, we sent an email
to my district requesting any of my constituents who felt like
they had been politically discriminated by FEMA. And just since
last week, we have had over 35 people who live and reside in my
district, who are citizens in my district, who have given us
specific instances, factual instances, where they were either
overlooked or specifically discriminated against because of
their political affiliation.
This is the exact type of weaponization of the Federal
Government that put Trump back in the White House. Starting
with the DOJ, the FBI, the intelligence agencies, the
weaponization of the Justice Department against President
Trump, and now it has been weaponizing the American people in
the form of disaster aid, and it is atrocious. Thank God
President Trump won, and he can restore this Department into
what it should be--not partisan, helping every American that
has been affected by a disaster, and I yield back.
Mr. Raskin. Will the gentleman yield for one question?
Mr. Steube. Sure.
Mr. Raskin. You were kind enough to quote me at the
beginning of your remarks, Mr. Steube, saying that partisanship
should not enter into the distribution of disaster aid, and I
think we found unanimous agreement on that point with respect
to this discrete episode that took place in Florida. But
several Members on our side have cited the President-elect,
when he was President before, withholding aid and altering the
distribution of aid, or attempting to, to California, to Puerto
Rico, other places, on precisely the basis of partisanship, and
no one on your side spoke up about that. But since you endorsed
the general principle, I wonder if you would agree that if such
a thing were to take place by a President, perhaps you disagree
with the reporting on it, but if it were to take place, that
would be equally or even more wrong than one person doing it on
a particular city block.
Mr. Steube. I do not care who the administration is or what
Agency it is. If they are discriminating against political
party beliefs and not getting Federal Government aid for that,
that is wrong, which is why Ashley Moody, our Attorney General
for the state of Florida, is suing FEMA exactly for that
reason.
Mr. Raskin. Thank you very much.
Chairman Comer. Madam Administrator, that concludes our
hearing today. I want to thank you for your testimony today. I
know there were many questions. There are going to be some
follow-up questions. We are in communication with other Members
and other people who have suggested that maybe the incident
here was not an isolated incident, so we are going to have
communication back and forth. We look forward to that IG report
coming very soon.
And with that, and without objection, all Members have 5
legislative days within which to submit materials and
additional written questions for the witnesses, which will be
forwarded to the witness.
If there is no further business, without objection, the
Committee stands adjourned. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 7:04 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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