[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                                    
                         [H.A.S.C. No. 118-72]

                                HEARING

                                   ON

                   NATIONAL DEFENSE AUTHORIZATION ACT

                          FOR FISCAL YEAR 2025

                                  AND

              OVERSIGHT OF PREVIOUSLY AUTHORIZED PROGRAMS

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES HEARING

                                   ON

                    FISCAL YEAR 2025 BUDGET REQUEST

                        FOR MISSILE DEFENSE AND

                        MISSILE DEFEAT PROGRAMS

                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                             APRIL 12, 2024

                                   
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
57-193                    WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------  

                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES

                    DOUG LAMBORN, Colorado, Chairman

JOE WILSON, South Carolina           SETH MOULTON, Massachusetts
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio              JOHN GARAMENDI, California
ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York          DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee          SALUD O. CARBAJAL, California,
DON BACON, Nebraska                  RO KHANNA, California
JIM BANKS, Indiana                   CHRISSY HOULAHAN, Pennsylvania
MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida               GABE VASQUEZ, New Mexico
DALE W. STRONG, Alabama              MARC VEASEY, Texas

             Peter Schirtzinger, Professional Staff Member
                Maria Vastola, Professional Staff Member
                    Owen McGeary, Research Assistant
                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

              STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS

Lamborn, Hon. Doug, a Representative from Colorado, Chairman, 
  Subcommittee on Strategic Forces...............................     1
Moulton, Hon. Seth, a Representative from Massachusetts, Ranking 
  Member, Subcommittee on Strategic Forces.......................     2

                               WITNESSES

Collins, Lt Gen Heath A., USAF, Director, Missile Defense Agency.     6
Gainey, LTG Sean A., USA, Commanding General, U.S. Army Space and 
  Missile Defense Command........................................     8
Hill, John D., Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Space 
  and Missile Defense, Office of the Under Secretary of Defense 
  for Policy.....................................................     5
James, LTG Thomas L., USA, Deputy Commander, U.S. Space Command..     9

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:

    Collins, Lt Gen Heath A......................................    51
    Gainey, LTG Sean A...........................................    70
    Hill, John D.................................................    35
    James, LTG Thomas L..........................................    83

Documents Submitted for the Record:

    [There were no Documents submitted.]

Witness Responses to Questions Asked During the Hearing:

    [There were no Questions submitted during the hearing.]

Questions Submitted by Members Post Hearing:

    Mr. Moulton..................................................    97
    Mr. Carbajal.................................................    97
    Mr. Bacon....................................................    99
    
.    
FISCAL YEAR 2025 BUDGET REQUEST FOR MISSILE DEFENSE AND MISSILE DEFEAT 
                                PROGRAMS

                              ----------                              

                  House of Representatives,
                       Committee on Armed Services,
                          Subcommittee on Strategic Forces,
                            Washington, DC, Friday, April 12, 2024.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:44 a.m., in 
room 2212, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Doug Lamborn 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DOUG LAMBORN, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
      COLORADO, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES

    Mr. Lamborn. The meeting will come to order.
    Thank you all for being here. Thank you for your patience 
while we finished a vote series the last few minutes.
    First of all, before we do anything else, I am going to ask 
unanimous consent that non-subcommittee members be allowed to 
participate in today's hearing after all subcommittee members 
have had an opportunity to ask questions.
    Is there any objection?
    If not, so ordered. So non-subcommittee members will be 
recognized at the appropriate time for 5 minutes.
    Welcome to our hearing. And thank you, witnesses, for being 
here. We have, Mr. John Hill, the Deputy Assistant Secretary of 
Defense for Space and Missile Defense Policy. Joining him, we 
have Lieutenant General Thomas James, the Deputy Commander of 
the U.S. Space Command; Lieutenant General Heath Collins, the 
Director of the Missile Defense Agency; and Lieutenant General 
Sean Gainey, the Commander of U.S. Army Space and Missile 
Defense Command.
    The subcommittee meets today to review the Department's 
fiscal year 2025 budget request for missile defense 
capabilities. I have a number of concerns just right off the 
bat here. First, the overall level of funding is inadequate 
given today's threat environment. The fiscal year 2025 budget 
requests $10.4 billion for the Missile Defense Agency. That is 
more than $400 million less than last year and almost $1 
billion below the level projected for fiscal year 2025 and last 
year's FYDP [Future-Years Defense Program].
    I want to reiterate this point. The fiscal year 2025 budget 
request for the Missile Defense Agency is $960 million, almost 
$1 billion below the level planned for in last year's budget. 
Further, these draconian cuts are not limited to just fiscal 
year 2025. The outyear spending projections included in this 
budget envision continued reductions in missile defense 
spending.
    Compared to the spending plan in the budget submitted last 
year, this budget forecasts cutting over $2.6 billion in 
missile defense funding between fiscal year 2025 and fiscal 
year 2028. To achieve these cuts, this budget would make 
several concerning decisions, including terminating the 
production line for SM-3 Block 1B interceptor and eliminating 
competition by prematurely down selecting to single contractors 
on both the next generation interceptor and Glide Phase 
Interceptor programs.
    I know we will get into these issues in greater detail, but 
in the case of the Glide Phase Interceptor, I think it is 
important to note that this down selection is occurring 5 years 
earlier than planned and before the preliminary design review 
is even held. I am extremely concerned that we will simply not 
have enough sufficient technical data to make an informed 
choice between competing concepts for this program.
    The Glide Phase Interceptor is the only capability in 
development specifically designed to combat the growing 
hypersonic threats we face. It is vitally important to our 
national security that we get this program right. We should be 
investing in a robust program that delivers an effective 
capability to our warfighters on a schedule that meets the 
threat. That is why Congress mandated in section 1666 of last 
year's defense authorization bill, but this budget would do the 
opposite.
    Overall, I am concerned that these decisions simply accept 
too much risk and that missile defense appears to have become a 
bill payer for other capabilities in this budget. This is 
difficult to understand given the growth in missile threats, 
the extremely high demand for missile defense capabilities from 
combatant commanders, and the visible evidence of the value 
these capabilities bring to the fight on full display as we 
speak in the Red Sea and in Israel and Ukraine.
    I look forward to hearing more from our witnesses about how 
this budget impacts their programs and their assessment of the 
risks contained in this budget.
    With that, I turn to the ranking member for his opening 
remarks.

     STATEMENT OF HON. SETH MOULTON, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
MASSACHUSETTS, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON STRATEGIC FORCES

    Mr. Moulton. I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    And I will just begin by echoing many of your concerns. 
This is obviously a time when missile defense is in use all 
around the globe, including by the United States, in great, 
great quantity. This is not a technology that seems to be 
fading away, and I think my biggest concern is that I just 
don't understand the rationale behind many of these cuts.
    Now, I have asked a lot of tough questions of leaders like 
yourself, Mr. Hill, in particular, about the purpose of 
hypersonics. It is in that same vein. We don't understand what 
exactly the operational concept is to use hypersonics. That 
makes it hard to understand the money we are spending on it. 
But likewise, as the chairman said, if we don't understand 
why--or we don't understand the rationale behind these cuts, it 
becomes very hard to support them, especially in this 
environment.
    I want to welcome both Lieutenant General James and 
Lieutenant General Collins, as this is the first opportunity to 
testify in front of the subcommittee in your new roles.
    Lieutenant General James, Space Command's role is 
increasing in both importance and consequence. And given that 
Space Command was recently given responsibility for Department-
level missile defense coordination, it is critical that you and 
we understand the complex strategic role missile defense plays 
in our national security. You are the first Army space operator 
to reach the rank of Lieutenant General, so you must be doing 
something right. FA-40s have been an exemplar in the 
Department, and this milestone is well overdue, so 
congratulations.
    Lieutenant General Collins, your unique background across 
the spectrum of strategic programs, including space, nuclear 
weapons, and missile defense, makes you well prepared to be 
director of the Missile Defense Agency. I am encouraged by our 
initial discussions that it is imperative that we understand 
the larger policy implications of what MDA [Missile Defense 
Agency] is developing before we blindly build new systems that 
could inadvertently further the proliferation of missile 
technology or, in the absolute worse case, result in 
destabilization, miscalculation, and escalation to nuclear war.
    As I shift to the topic of today's hearing, I want to 
remind the subcommittee that missile defense has a mixed legacy 
and continues to pose difficult questions about what its 
purpose is and should be, under what conditions it actually 
makes us safer, and how much and what kind of it we need. That 
is why these questions, including what the chairman started 
with, are so important.
    As I laid out last year, there are five basic scenarios or 
levels at which we consider using or not using missile defense. 
Behind me is a graphic depicting these levels, which I will use 
to frame the rest of my remarks.
    The highest level of missile defense, it has been 
longstanding policy across nearly every administration that we 
are not and will not pursue missile defense to defeat a near-
peer nuclear attack. Despite attempts to change U.S. policy 
during last year's NDAA [National Defense Authorization Act] 
cycle to specifically do so, going down this road would be 
incredibly destabilizing, technically challenging, and 
prohibitively expensive.
    Until we can safely rid the world of all nuclear weapons, 
which I believe is ultimately necessary for the survival of 
humanity itself, we can neither unilaterally disarm nor 
unilaterally render useless our adversaries' arsenals. If we 
were to try to render all of our adversaries' missiles 
incapable through increased missile defenses, they would simply 
do what they have arguably already done, develop new, more 
complex missiles to defeat those systems. Mutually assured 
destruction sounds like a crazy concept when you first read 
about it, but it has fundamentally kept us is safe.
    The fourth level of missile defense is the area where there 
is the most debate. This is where we can argue that our 
advancements in missile defense over the past two decades since 
pulling out of the ABM [Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty] treaty 
have provided a greater security blanket against aspiring 
nuclear powers like North Korea and Iran.
    However, as North Korea, or the DPRK [Democratic People's 
Republic of Korea], continues to expand their ballistic missile 
and nuclear arsenals, we must continually evaluate when we view 
them as more of a strategic-level threat and, therefore, rely 
on a policy of nuclear deterrence, instead of simply trying to 
outnumber their ICBMs [intercontinental ballistic missiles] 
with interceptors, such as the next generation interceptor 
program intends to do.
    If we decide to continue to outpace their ballistic missile 
expansion, the question is, how do Russia and China respond? I 
have argued that they will certainly see that growth as 
directly affecting the credibility of their own nuclear forces, 
which may have dire unintended consequences.
    I hope that in today's discussion, Mr. Hill, you can help 
us understand how the Department continues to weigh those 
questions and that balance. As this subcommittee evaluates this 
year's budget request and the continued missile defense policy 
and posture of the United States, we must understand these 
implications for ensuring the strategic stability of America 
and the world for decades to come.
    Now, level three is a nuance that I think is important to 
distinguish from a rogue nation, because the size of the system 
required to deal with it is very different, but continuing to 
have some capability to defend against a small, even single 
accidental launch should be maintained.
    At level two, the tactical level, the incredible support 
Ukraine has received from allies and partners in air and 
missile defense has enabled them to fight back against near-
nonstop Russian missile attacks for the past 3 years. Though if 
this body cannot get its act together and pass the languishing 
supplemental, this is the area in which Ukraine will suffer the 
most and will have direct impacts on their ability to maintain 
their sovereign country and territory.
    In the Red Sea, we are seeing what many thought was not 
possible--multinational, coordinated, and effective missile 
defense--and obviously this is using a lot of missiles, which 
is one of the questions we have about reducing the budget. 
While U.S. Navy ships have been at the center of defending 
deployed forces, allies, partners, and commercial shipping 
vessels from a wide range of air-breathing and ballistic 
missile threats, they have been working across the 
multinational task force.
    The French, German, and U.K. [United Kingdom] Navies have 
all intercepted targets in the Red Sea. And while ideally I 
believe we need to move towards non-kinetic solutions that flip 
the cost curve of missile defense, something the chairman and I 
have been pursuing aggressively, no one can deny the incredible 
impact today's missile defense systems are having on the Middle 
East.
    Finally, at the foundational level of missile defense, 
simply detecting these threats, we still have much work to do. 
However, this past year has marked many successes in domain 
awareness. In February, MDA's hypersonic and ballistic tracking 
space sensor prototypes were launched, and this budget supports 
their ongoing testing through 2027. The Space Development 
Agency also launched their wide field-of-view sensors, which 
will be a key component of the next generation of missile 
warning and missile track architecture replacing the legacy, 
quote, big, juicy satellites currently on orbit.
    As we evaluate the fiscal year 2025 request for missile 
defense programs, I will continue to ask the following 
questions: How will expanding U.S. missile defense today impact 
strategic stability tomorrow? We are already in an arms race. 
Will it make our world more safe? And does each investment 
stabilize or destabilize our strategic national security? These 
are the questions we must ask ourselves on this subcommittee, 
not just with an eye to this year's budget and the NDAA, but in 
determining how our decisions will impact the world we leave 
for our children.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Lamborn. Okay. Thank you.
    We will now move to opening statements from our witnesses. 
I would note that your prepared statements will be made part of 
the record, but you will each have 5 minutes to make some 
opening remarks.
    Mr. Hill, let's begin with you.

   STATEMENT OF JOHN D. HILL, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF 
  DEFENSE FOR SPACE AND MISSILE DEFENSE, OFFICE OF THE UNDER 
                SECRETARY OF DEFENSE FOR POLICY

    Mr. Hill. Thank you, Chairman Lamborn and Ranking Member 
Moulton and distinguished members of the subcommittee, for the 
opportunity to testify today. Thank you as well for including 
my full statement in the record.
    In brief, my written statement surveys threat developments 
in a deteriorating security environment. It stresses the 
unmistakable centrality of missiles of all types, including 
uncrewed aerial systems, or UAS, in modern warfare, and it 
underscores the indispensability of missile defense and missile 
defeat capabilities to deterring aggression and to defending 
our homeland, our forces deployed around the world, and our 
allies and partners. It highlights how those allies and 
partners have come to similar conclusions, are increasing their 
own investments, and are working with us to meet these 
challenges together.
    The administration's defense budget request for fiscal year 
2025 includes $28.4 billion for missile defense and missile 
defeat programs.
    I want to acknowledge at the outset of this hearing the 
strong support this subcommittee has consistently shown for 
missile defense and missile defeat efforts for many years. And 
I stand ready to work with you to pass defense authorization 
legislation for fiscal year 2025, the 64th consecutive year, 
and with all of Congress to pass on-time defense appropriations 
legislation for fiscal year 2025.
    Today, I must also emphasize, perhaps more than anything 
else, the critical urgency of passing the national security 
supplemental request, which Congress has now had for nearly 6 
months. That request includes desperately needed funding, 
funding to support Ukraine in defending its democratic 
sovereignty and its very existence against Russia's illegal and 
ruthless invasion and Russia's authoritarian aggression, 
including relentless barrages of missiles and UAS attacks; 
funding to support Israel in defending itself against the 
continuing missile UAS and rocket attacks by Hamas and other 
groups aligned with Iran; funding to provide critical 
humanitarian assistance in Ukraine, Israel, and Gaza, where 
innocent civilians are dying every day; funding to support our 
Indo-Pacific partners in deterring aggression by the People's 
Republic of China; funding to replenish our own military 
supplies of munitions and other materiel that we have had to 
draw down to meet the urgent needs of allies and partners; and 
funding to invest in the capacity of the American industrial 
base and workforce that is producing these munitions and weapon 
systems, including missile defense systems, that are so vital 
to all of these American national security interests.
    Chairman Lamborn and Ranking Member Moulton and 
distinguished members of this subcommittee, there is simply no 
more time for delay. The time to act is now. I cannot 
overemphasize. As General Cavoli said just the other day, I 
cannot overemphasize the critical importance of Congress coming 
together in common purpose and acting with urgency to pass the 
national security supplemental request.
    Thank you again for convening this crucially important and 
timely hearing. Thank you for your attention. And thank you, 
each and every one of you, for what you do for your 
constituents and the Nation. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Hill can be found in the 
Appendix on page 35.]
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you.
    General Collins.

    STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL HEATH A. COLLINS, USAF, 
                DIRECTOR, MISSILE DEFENSE AGENCY

    General Collins. Thank you, Chairman Lamborn, Ranking 
Member Moulton, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. 
I appreciate your continued strong support for the missile 
defense mission and look forward to the questions today.
    I would like to start out by thanking the men and women 
behind the development, delivery, and sustainment of the 
missile defense system that I represent today, our MDA family, 
and the operators of the system, all key partners in this no-
fail mission.
    As you mentioned, Chairman, we are requesting $10.4 billion 
to develop and deploy homeland missile defenses and improve 
regional missile defenses against increasingly diverse and 
dangerous missile threats. Our prioritization of decisions will 
maximize missile defense system capability, capacity, and 
readiness. We continue to work closely with our combatant 
commanders and services to help prepare them to fight for the 
fight of today and tomorrow.
    To defend our homeland from ballistic missile attack, the 
ground-based midcourse defense, or GMD system, remains our 
Nation's sole protection from limited attacks, with a primary 
focus being the advancing North Korean threat. The ongoing 
ground-based interceptor, or GBI, service-life extension 
program, will continue to improve the GBI reliability and will 
help mitigate risk until the next generation interceptor, NGI, 
is fielded by the end of 2028.
    After 20 years, GMD stands ready, as shown in December of 
2023, when we successfully executed a GMD intercept flight test 
using the two/three-stage selectable ground-based interceptor 
in two stage mode first, demonstrating increased engagement 
battle space. We plan to deploy this capability to the entire 
fleet by the end of this year.
    The NGI program remains on track. Both prime contractors 
have successfully executed preliminary design reviews, or PDRs, 
and MDA is preparing in the near future to complete a best 
value determination and select a single company to continue NGI 
development, testing, production, and fielding.
    Soon we plan to add the long-range discrimination radar, or 
LRDR, to MDA's operational capability baseline by December of 
this year. LRDR, delivered to the government last month, will 
enhance tracking discrimination and hit assessment against 
long-range missile threats. Additionally, the Space Force and 
MDA are in the process of formally declaring LRDR ready for 
space object detection later this month.
    For regional defense, MDA continues to design improvements 
to the Aegis ballistic missile defense capability and procure 
the Standard Missile-3 Block 2A missiles. In fiscal year 2025, 
we will also test and deliver SPY-1 radar upgrades and support 
the Navy in future space domain awareness demonstrations.
    We will continue U.S. terminal high-altitude aerial 
defense, or THAAD, interceptor procurement, fielding and 
training support, along with reliability in cybersecurity 
improvements. In collaboration with the U.S. Army, we have 
fielded the THAAD 4.0 capability to batteries in Korea and on 
Guam and are in the process of fielding 4.0 to the all-
remaining THAAD batteries by the end of 2025. THAAD 4.0 
integrates Patriot capabilities with THAAD to increase Patriot-
Defended area and engagement opportunities. We will also begin 
design work to improve the THAAD system to take on ever-
advancing regional threats.
    The Department continues development of a 360-degree 
layered missile defense capability for Guam. MDA construction 
on the Joint Command Center AN/TPY-6 radar site and launch site 
will begin in fiscal year 2025. And by the end of this year, we 
will execute a flight experiment with the SM-3 Block 2A against 
a medium-range ballistic missile target controlled with the 
initial Aegis Guam system using the first TPY-6 transportable 
array unit.
    Looking forward, MDA continues to pursue end-to-end 
capabilities to defeat the serious challenge posed by 
hypersonic maneuvering threats. Today, our sea-based terminal 
defenses protect assets at sea and forces ashore from 
hypersonic threats. Working with the Navy, we anticipate 
delivering follow-on increment three capabilities in fiscal 
year 2025.
    The Glide Phase Interceptor program, or GPI weapons system, 
will enable layered defense against hypersonic glide threats. 
By the end of fiscal year 2024, in coordination with our future 
international partner Japan, MDA will select a single GPI 
interceptor design to complete development. We will continue to 
develop a mature GPI capability and support the planned 
cooperative development of that Glide Phase Interceptor with 
Japan.
    On the detection and tracking part of the kill chain, as 
mentioned by Ranking Member Moulton, we launched the hypersonic 
and ballistic tracking space sensor, or HBTSS, prototype 
satellites in February to demonstrate fire control solutions 
generated against hypersonic maneuvering threats. Following 
successful demonstration of HBTSS, the responsibility for 
fielding HBTSS like fire control capabilities will be 
transferred to Space Force.
    I am honored by this opportunity and look forward to your 
questions.
    [The prepared statement of General Collins can be found in 
the Appendix on page 51.]
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you.
    General Gainey.

STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL SEAN A. GAINEY, USA, COMMANDING 
      GENERAL, U.S. ARMY SPACE AND MISSILE DEFENSE COMMAND

    General Gainey. Chairman Lamborn, Ranking Member Moulton, 
and distinguished members of this subcommittee, I am honored to 
testify before you and represent this incredible one-team 
organization of 2,300 soldiers and civilians, spanning 13 time 
zones and 19 locations worldwide. These professionals 
tirelessly provide space, high-altitude, and missile defense 
forces and advance capabilities to the Army and joint 
warfighter. I am honored to represent them, and I thank you for 
your unwavering support for this team and their families.
    In January, I took command of the U.S. Army Space and 
Missile Defense Command and Joint Functional Component Command 
for Integrated Air and Missile Defense, also known as JFCC-IMD, 
also acting as the senior commander for both Fort Greely, 
Alaska, and U.S. Army Garrison Kwajalein Atoll. Additionally, I 
also serve as the Army's lead enterprise integrator for air and 
missile defense, and my organization, JFCC-IMD, provides 
operational-level missile defense expertise and integrates 
trans-regional missile defense functions across the joint and 
combined warfighting force.
    As the Army's air and missile defense enterprise 
integrator, today I will use this role to leverage and 
highlight the Army air and missile defense remains the Army's 
most heavily deployed force with the highest demand signal 
amongst the combatant commands every year. This high op tempo 
continues to provide a significant strain on our formations and 
families, and we must continue to address their needs.
    As you know, the urgency for multi-domain, trans-regional 
combat effects continues to increase exponentially. Our adverse 
air and missile defense-related threats have rapidly expanded 
in recent years in quantity, variety, and sophistication, 
rapidly expanding their space R&D [research and development], 
instigating cyber attacks, and test complex missile systems. We 
see this today in Ukraine and looming on the horizon in the 
Pacific. It has never been more imperative that we and our 
allies and partners enhance our missile defense and space 
capabilities to impose costs on our adversaries, denying them 
the benefits of using these weapons and ensuring the 
safeguarding of our Nation.
    As our adversaries increase their emphasis on space and 
missile capabilities, the U.S. Army grows in kind. In December, 
the Secretary and Chief of Staff of the Army and the Sergeant 
Major of the Army signed the Army space vision supporting 
multi-domain operations, specifying the Army's role in 
integrating space capabilities into joint and coalition 
operations while also interdicting the space capabilities of 
adversaries.
    It is also increasingly apparent that integrating our space 
operations and missile defense operations is of critical 
importance to our national security. Our integration is 
essential to effectively contribute to strategic deterrence and 
respond in crisis. What worked for yesterday's military must 
evolve.
    Today, we must integrate space and missile defense at the 
very onset of our prototyping, concept development, and 
application. And we do it all in concert with our Army joint 
and coalition partners, one voice together around the globe. 
Our allies and partners are critical for layered and tiered 
operations to degrade, disrupt, and defeat adversaries, share 
burdens, integrate technology, and protect our mutual 
homelands.
    But all these operational considerations pale in comparison 
to the will, determination, and the trust the amazing men and 
women that operate and sustain these advance systems. These 
soldiers and their families make life-altering sacrifices to 
serve across the globe. Thank you for your efforts in 
supporting them with timely budget, caring for them and their 
families, and building trust with the American people now and 
in the years to come. Caring for our soldiers and their 
families is paramount to win in any environment around the 
globe.
    Thank you for supporting such an incredible mission-ready 
team. I look forward to addressing your questions.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of General Gainey can be found in 
the Appendix on page 70.]
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you.
    General James.

 STATEMENT OF LIEUTENANT GENERAL THOMAS L. JAMES, USA, DEPUTY 
                 COMMANDER, U.S. SPACE COMMAND

    General James. Good morning, Chairman Lamborn, Ranking 
Member Moulton, and distinguished members of this subcommittee. 
It is an honor to be here today representing General Whiting 
and the nearly 18,000 soldiers, sailors, marines, airmen, 
guardians, DOD [Department of Defense] civilians and 
contractors of the United States Space Command. Our expertly 
trained and mission-focused workforce remains our most valuable 
asset.
    As you have heard from my distinguished colleagues here on 
the panel, our strategic competitors' offensive missile systems 
are significantly increasing in capability and scale. They will 
challenge our ability to conduct operations and protect and 
defend U.S. and our allies' vital interest. Our competitors are 
rapidly evolving, diversifying, and proliferating their 
inventories of advanced missiles and technologies. Hypersonic 
glide vehicles and cruise missiles pose diverse threats that 
will complicate our missile warning and missile defense 
missions.
    In April 2023, the Unified Command Plan assigned United 
States Space Command with the responsibility for trans-regional 
missile defense planning and operational support. That decision 
was the culmination of a comprehensive study in alignment with 
numerous policy documents and with the 2022 Missile Defense 
Review. This was a natural fit given our Unified Command Plan 
responsibilities, such as space operations and global sensor 
manager, as the missile defense mission continues to converge 
with the space missions.
    Part of the transition of trans-regional missile defense 
planning and support missions included alignment of the Joint 
Functional Component Command for Integrated Missile Defense 
under U.S. Space Command, commanded by my good friend, 
Lieutenant General Sean Gainey. JFCC-IMD ensured the continued 
execution of the responsibilities during the transition without 
any mission degradation. We, the United States Space Command, 
have integrated JFCC-IMD into our command structures and 
processes and are exploring ways to further optimize their 
execution of critical missions.
    As the global sensor manager, USSPACECOM [U.S. Space 
Command] is responsible for planning, managing, and overseeing 
the operations of all assigned space domain awareness, missile 
defense, and missile warning sensors. Our terrestrial sensors 
are a critical enabler to the combatant command and national-
level military command centers, most performing missile 
warning, missile defense, and space domain awareness mission 
simultaneously.
    Our space-based sensors provide the first alert of a 
missile launch from anywhere on the planet. They provide this 
to our national leaders, the National Military Command System, 
combatant commands, and select international partners. 
USSPACECOM employs a joint, combined, and partnered approach to 
our operations, which expands our access to sensors and their 
information. This includes our Combined Space Operations 
Center's Commercial Integration Cell and our National Space 
Defense Center's Joint Commercial Operations Cell, commensurate 
with the Department's recently published Commercial Space 
Strategy. The JCO [Joint Commercial Operations] also includes 
14 allied partners that are fully integrated into our space 
domain operations.
    It is vital that we keep pace with the emerging threats and 
technologies while ensuring that our sensor architecture 
remains optimized and modernized. While we pursue integrating 
new capabilities, we must still aggressively leverage and 
integrate our legacy sensors in support of our critical missile 
warning and missile defense functions today as part of a 
comprehensive missile defeat strategy.
    Continued funding for research and development for the next 
generation of space-based and terrestrial sensor systems is 
critical to keep pace with the competitors and the potential 
adversaries that we face today. These capabilities must be 
resilient, and we must be able to defend and reconstitute them 
to achieve space across domain mission assurance for the Joint 
Force.
    In closing, the 2022 Missile Defense Review states, ``It is 
a strategic imperative of the United States to continue 
investments and innovation in the development of full-spectrum 
missile defeat capabilities to maintain deterrence and offer 
protection while hedging against uncertainty. Consistent with 
the Missile Defense Review, the Department must explore and 
enact the full range of capabilities to counter advanced 
adversary offensive missiles and hybrid threats across the 
spectrum of conflict.
    U.S. Space Command with fellow combatant commands, 
services, allies, and interagency, and commercial partners 
stands ready to perform our unified command plan 
responsibilities to maintain and expand our competitive 
advantage. USSPACECOM appreciates Congress' continued support 
as we ensure the delivery of space-based capabilities and 
achieve our foundational moral responsibility to protect the 
Joint Force, the Nation, and our allies through all levels of 
competition and conflict.
    I have submitted my written statement for the record. Thank 
you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of General James can be found in 
the Appendix on page 83.]
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you.
    We will now go to questions from the panel--from the 
committee.
    General Collins, as I talked about in my opening statement, 
I am very concerned about the Glide Phase Interceptor. Last 
year, the program planned to continue development and to 
maintain competition between two industry teams for at least 
another 5 years. A preliminary design review, or let's say PDR, 
was planned for 2029 with the potential down-select decision 
following PDR. Now, the program is planning to select a single 
contractor this year without the development activity to prove 
out new technologies and with a lot less information.
    First, a general question. Competition in a program reduces 
risk, drives innovation, and helps ensure the government is 
getting a good value. Wouldn't you say that, in general, that 
is a fair statement?
    General Collins. Yeah. Mr. Chairman, as a career 
acquisition officer, competition within an acquisition strategy 
does buy down risk, keeps both teams sharp throughout the 
acquisition, and intends to--it is a best practice within the 
Department, yes, sir.
    Mr. Lamborn. Okay. Thank you.
    So how concerned are you then that making a down-select 
decision this early in the program will increase risk?
    General Collins. Sir, that is a job that we will be 
attacking greatly now with the decision that will be coming 
later this fiscal year. There are other mechanisms to manage 
competition and risk within a program lower than the prime 
level. We certainly will be looking forward to keeping the 
program on pace and, based on section 1666, look for 
opportunities to bring hypersonic capability to the fight much 
sooner.
    With the GPI program as established today, working with our 
soon international partner Japan, we will continue to look for 
opportunities to buy down that risk judiciously, potentially 
with competition at a lower level within--at the component or 
subsystem level.
    Mr. Lamborn. Okay. So let's dive a little bit more into 
that. What concrete steps--and you have already alluded to 
some--can we take to mitigate this risk or to give ourselves 
options if technology development doesn't go as planned?
    General Collins. Yes, sir. Much of this is--as part of the 
decision to come with down selecting, we are in the midst of 
upgrading our acquisition strategy and finalizing the decision 
criteria for making this decision. Part of that will be 
finalizing in taking a look at how to establish the program 
and, going forward, depending on the selection and the risks 
associated with that particular prime, we will then have to 
take a look at, with the prime, the steps that would be taken. 
Each prime has a different set of risks based on their designs 
and that we would have to specifically identify, based on the 
decision, which one would drive what decisions and actions we 
would take going forward.
    Mr. Lamborn. Well, I still am concerned. I know that you 
will do your best to play the hand of cards that you have been 
dealt, but I really am concerned about this. I just think we 
are taking on too much risk that we otherwise would be able to 
mitigate through continuing the competition more into the 
future.
    This leads to my next set of questions about the program 
schedule. You would think that if the program had advanced 
sufficiently and technology is mature enough for the government 
to select a single prime contractor 5 years earlier than 
originally planned, that we would be in a position to 
accelerate the schedule, but it looks like the opposite is 
happening.
    In last year's hearing, your predecessor, Admiral Hill, and 
I discussed the program's schedule and how delivering a 
capability in 2034 was not adequate. He agreed and said, quote, 
``Out in the mid-30s is almost irrelevant. We are not meeting 
the threat,'' unquote. But this year's budget would add 
additional delay, and now does not anticipate deploying a 
capability until 2035.
    Do you share Admiral Hill's view that this makes it 
irrelevant to go more than 10 years into the future?
    General Collins. Sir, I definitely agree with waiting 11 
years to bring a hypersonic glide phase capability to the 
warfighter is too long, and looking into options within the GPI 
program and other options, that could bring an interim 
capability sooner. We do have a requirement to come back with 
those options to you, and we are working through that. And a 
report will be provided by September that goes through those 
different option spaces, both within the GPI program and 
broader across the missile defense enterprise to try to get any 
capability we can out of the weapon systems we have and also 
into the future with a GPI program.
    Mr. Lamborn. What can you tell us in this setting for the 
record that you will do specifically? You already alluded to 
the intention to try to accelerate some things, but what are 
concrete steps that you are going to be able to take or plan to 
take?
    General Collins. Yes, sir. Right off the bat, one is we 
have engaged with both of our primes that we have on the GPI 
program today to identify opportunities that they see within 
their industry space and their broader enterprises to come up 
with acceleration options that we could be taking within the 
program, within the GPI program. Otherwise, I am also looking 
across at other weapon systems that we have in place today to 
understand what, if any, residual capability they may have and/
or what potential developments, smaller developments could we 
take within those other weapon systems that could bring some 
type of residual capability or interim capability to the fight.
    Mr. Lamborn. Okay. Thank you. I will end my questions 
there, but I will just quickly summarize my concerns.
    This budget, as proposed, cuts the funding, delays the 
schedule, and adds risk to the acquisition approach. I 
understand that it will save some dollars and is cheaper, but I 
am just not sure it will even lead to success in the long run, 
much less address the threats in the meantime.
    With that, I turn to the ranking member for any questions 
he might have.
    Mr. Moulton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I certainly share 
some of these same concerns.
    Lieutenant General Collins, Lockheed's F-35 and Northrop 
Grumman's Sentinel are two examples of programs that currently 
have zero competition and are grossly over budget and grossly 
behind schedule. Now, you have extensive acquisitions 
experience. Can you cite an example of a program that benefited 
from down selecting and reducing competition early? When has 
such a reduction in competition fielded a better technology 
faster and it reduced cost?
    General Collins. Ranking Member Moulton, thank you for that 
question. Um----
    Mr. Moulton. Well, I think the silence speaks volumes. 
Let's move on.
    Mr. Hill, the Department indicated to this committee that 
cancellation of the SM-3 Block 1B was done in part to purchase 
more SM-3 Block 2As. We will set aside that there are no 
additional 2As in this budget request and focus on the policy 
issues I have continued to raise. Is it accurate to say that 
SM-3 Block 1B is solely a regional missile defense asset?
    Mr. Hill. SM-3 Block 1B is for regional missile defense 
against medium-range ballistic missiles.
    Mr. Moulton. Is it also accurate to say that SM-3 Block 2A 
has been proven to intercept an ICBM-range threat, the type of 
threat designed to be handled by the ground-based midcourse 
defense system?
    Mr. Hill. I believe from a kinematic perspective it has 
been shown to be able to intercept at that beginning edge----
    Mr. Moulton. Right.
    Mr. Hill. --but it is--the operational concepts for it are 
as a regional missile defense missile. It is mostly for medium-
range and----
    Mr. Moulton. Right. But I am just asking about its ability.
    Mr. Hill. I believe as a test--there was a test that was 
done----
    Mr. Moulton. Yeah. That is a very long way of saying yes.
    Mr. Hill. Yeah.
    Mr. Moulton. So my question is: was there a policy 
evaluation done on how our adversaries, to include China, 
Russia, North Korea, would respond to a further increase of SM-
3 Block 2As, which have capability against a strategic missile, 
in lieu of the 1B variant, which does not?
    Mr. Hill. Yeah, that was done before my time doing this, 
but I think the implications of the SM-3 2A, which you are 
talking about, being deployed in fleets at different places 
around the world is not something that should logically cause 
China or Russia to have any concerns from a strategic stability 
perspective.
    Mr. Moulton. Well, if you could provide that report to the 
committee, it would be helpful. When you said there was some 
analysis done----
    Mr. Hill. No, the decision and that test was before I was 
doing the missile defense business, so I can look into the 
history of what was done there.
    Mr. Moulton. Well, look, the point is that what matters 
here for strategic stability is not just what we think is 
perfectly logical but what our enemies think, and we have to 
consider these concerns when we are making these budgetary 
decisions. I think, you know, SM-3 Block 2As have an important 
role, but the quantities we are currently buying are about a 
third of what was intended for the 1B. And if we suddenly 
reverse that and triple our 2A buy, we could very well embolden 
our adversaries to further proliferate and advance their 
technology in a way that not only makes our regional defense 
posture weaker at a time where regional missile defense is of 
prime importance, but also impact stability at their strategic 
level.
    I also get the sense that this decision was not thought 
through on an operational business. I mean, General Collins, 
from your perspective, is a future Navy fleet equipped with 
primarily SM-6 interceptors and some SM-3-2A interceptors 
consistent with the direction you see the threat going?
    General Collins. Sir, Ranking Member Moulton, good 
question. What I would take is, I would be concerned with the 
capacity of capabilities that are in a fleet and our ability to 
support with enough 2As moving forward given the capacity that 
we take from that production line today.
    Mr. Moulton. Well, we obviously share those concerns.
    General Collins, has MDA completed analysis of the impacts 
on this decision on its ability to support and sustain the 
current inventory of 1Bs, meet the needs of allies, and support 
the Navy's requirements? Has that analysis been completed?
    General Collins. Sir, we have not completed that analysis. 
We have been waiting for the 2024 appropriation to understand 
the amount of money we were going to get within the SM-3 1B 
line to support the negotiation for an additional lot of 1Bs. 
That work is going on currently today to understand the impact 
to both the 1B final lot as well as the future of the 2A line, 
all of that to inform what type of sparing would we require 
within the 1B line to support the lifecycle of 1Bs.
    Mr. Moulton. Well, I think, to quickly summarize as the 
chairman did, we both share a concern about the lack of 
competition. That seemed to be echoed by your silence. We both 
share concern about simply the magazine capacity that we have 
if we are reducing the number of regional defense assets we 
have at a time when we are using them quite regularly. And I 
have additional concerns about what this all means for our 
strategic stability that it just sounds like have not been 
analyzed or even considered carefully. So we have a lot of 
questions, and I think that is important.
    Just one final question. Lieutenant General Collins, there 
have been a lot of discussions from this subcommittee about the 
potential need for a third CONUS [continental United States] 
interceptor site. Has JROC [Joint Requirements Oversight 
Council] validated any sort of requirement for a third site?
    General Collins. No, sir, there is no requirement.
    Mr. Moulton. If they were to validate such a requirement, 
is the location that was looked at almost 10 years ago at this 
point still where you believe that third site should be 
located, as the last study explicitly indicated that MDA would 
need to relook at the analysis prior to moving forward with any 
sort of program once you had a requirement?
    General Collins. Sir, that is correct. We would take a look 
as, if a requirement for an East Coast site was identified as a 
requirement and validated. As mentioned when the final report 
came out, we would take a look at the current threat, the 
current performance of the system, the current state of affairs 
to assess and evaluate what that optimal site would be.
    Mr. Moulton. Right. So just to summarize, as of right now, 
you don't need a third site. If you were to need a third site, 
you wouldn't just go with what was selected 10 years ago, you 
would do another analysis.
    And, Mr. Hill, I would just add, I hope that we would, per 
my questions about strategic stability, look at the 
implications of a third site on the views of our adversaries.
    Mr. Hill. That is correct. The focus on a third site would 
be the things we are already investing in rather than a third 
site.
    Mr. Moulton. Great.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you.
    Representative DesJarlais.
    Dr. DesJarlais. General Collins, hypersonics have 
completely upended our prior conception of the global missile 
threat landscape with our ability to evade our legacy detection 
systems, and we are now in a position where we are playing 
catchup both in our ability to detect and defeat these novel 
capabilities. Can you update our committee on how you are 
addressing the issue of detection first with the capabilities 
like hypersonic and ballistic tracking space sensor satellites? 
And how are you collaborating with SDA [Space Development 
Agency] on these and other efforts pertaining to hypersonic 
missile defense?
    General Collins. Thank you, Congressman, for the question. 
Hypersonic missile defense is certainly a key focus of the 
Missile Defense Agency and protecting our warfighters as we 
move forward. The hypersonic ballistic tracking space sensor 
that I mentioned in my opening statement and you just 
mentioned, that is a prototype set of satellites to demonstrate 
our ability in the technology to from space detect, track, and 
close the fire control loop against a hypersonic threat, to 
take a hypersonic threat and track it throughout its entire 
launch, from launch to intercept.
    That is a key aspect of our future ability to detect and 
eventually intercept hypersonic weapons anywhere on the planet 
in the future. To get there, we have worked very closely with 
the Space Development Agency. They would be the operational 
transition agent for us to take HBTSS and include it within the 
future proliferated warfighting space architecture. We have 
been working very closely with them, also the Space Warfighting 
Analysis Center, the SWAC, part of the Space Force. We have 
been working with them to ensure that our long-term fire 
control requirements are included within the force design of 
any future space architecture.
    And so with those relationships within Space Force, we are 
ready when we complete the demonstration later this year to 
transition into the proliferated warfighting space architecture 
tracking layer to pick up on the hypersonic fire control 
tracking requirements for Missile Defense Agency.
    Dr. DesJarlais. Okay. On the Glide Phase Interceptor, where 
are we at?
    General Collins. Yes, sir. We have two primes awarded on 
other transaction authority agreements, and both are proceeding 
post-system requirements review and working to finalize 
designs, as well as tech maturation for each of their designs. 
There is a good amount of tech maturation of the design in the 
integration of the system that are being worked on.
    Dr. DesJarlais. Okay. Is an acceleration research on 
hypersonic defense options necessary, and is it technologically 
feasible?
    General Collins. Sir, we believe hypersonic defense is 
feasible. We have, today, a terminal case ability--capability 
to intercept hypersonic threats within the SM-6 sea-based 
terminal capability within the Aegis weapon system. So we are 
already fielded capability to intercept hypersonics in the 
terminal phase.
    Glide Phase Interceptor, we have identified the technology 
areas that need to be matured within that program to do glide 
phase intercept farther away from the intended target, and we 
are in the midst of burning down all of those technologies to 
be able to field this capability. So, yes, we believe that 
technology exists with some maturation to come, but we do 
believe hypersonic glide phase intercept capabilities is 
feasible.
    Dr. DesJarlais. Okay. Mr. Hill, what is the Department's 
policy on how the U.S. will address near-peer hypersonic 
threats to the homeland?
    Mr. Hill. As General Collins just described, we are 
investing in capabilities as Congress directed. We created--we 
designated the Secretary of the Air Force for leading the 
cruise missile defense of the homeland project and, of course, 
Glide Phase Interceptors, many of them are cruise missiles. So 
we will defend them against that, recognizing that in many 
cases this is something that an adversary is using and 
developing, not in the context of a nuclear strike, but in the 
context of potentially defeating our ability to respond. We 
want to demonstrate that, no, we have the ability to follow up 
on the commitments we have made, and that means we will defend 
critical infrastructure in the United States.
    Dr. DesJarlais. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you.
    Representative Norcross.
    Mr. Norcross. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member, for 
today's hearing, and certainly the witnesses.
    We have had a number of discussions on this committee that 
talked about the ability to produce the weapons we need, the 
interceptors and, quite frankly, the entire industrial base.
    Mr. Hill, today you talked about the investment in that 
industrial base. So just for the sake of an argument, let's 
assume we have the technical expertise to design and build and 
we might be able to build a prototype. When you look across the 
U.S. missile industrial base and the workforce, are you 
comfortable with where we are in terms of being able to produce 
the numbers that we are talking about?
    Mr. Hill. I think--I am concerned that we have taken a bit 
of a holiday and that we are playing some catchup here. I am 
concerned that we have an adversary in Russia that is on a war 
footing in Ukraine, and we and our allies in Europe all need to 
look more carefully at the investments and improve our 
abilities to replenish when we draw down munitions and other 
key systems.
    Mr. Norcross. So you talked about the investment in the 
industrial base. What specifically would you point to in this 
budget that is actually going to mitigate some of those 
concerns?
    Mr. Hill. You know, I think it is--there are--focused 
particularly on munitions area and expanding capacity, and some 
of that is a function of when you are buying in larger 
quantities, when you are buying with using the authority that 
the committee has given us to have multiyear procurement, now 
you are creating an environment in which you are not just 
relying on the government's money but companies are also 
willing to put their money into expanding their capacity. Those 
are ----
    Mr. Norcross. So what are we doing to address that exactly? 
What signals are we sending industry? And I am very familiar 
with much of the ammunition, what we are doing over there.
    Mr. Hill. Yeah.
    Mr. Norcross. I am more concerned, at least at this 
hearing, at our missile industrial base.
    Mr. Hill. Yeah.
    Mr. Norcross. When you start talking about investing in our 
workforce, what does that mean? You can send a signal, but 
unless a contract follows it, it is a hollow signal.
    Mr. Hill. Right. The contract following it is going to be 
the question of the resource allocations in finite budgets. 
This is the question that we have been discussing earlier today 
about how many are we acquiring.
    Mr. Norcross. Well, I am not trying to pin you. Well, 
actually, I am----
    Mr. Hill. You are.
    Mr. Norcross. --trying to pin you down, because we are 
doing this to address exactly what we are talking about. And I 
get it, we make the decision and all the complexities and 
dealing with that and then we say we need it yesterday. I mean, 
that is historically what we do. And if we look at some of the 
numbers that we are requesting, and particularly Mr. Moulton 
and what he was saying, even if you change your mind, they 
cannot ramp up in time.
    So when we start looking towards investing in that 
industrial base, we have to send the signals that are true to 
industry, and we have to build it ahead of time because the 
longest lead item is not a piece of material; it is a human. 
And that is why I continue to bring this up meeting after 
meeting.
    But with that, I will yield back to the Chairman. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you, Representative.
    Representative Bacon.
    Mr. Bacon. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, gentlemen, for being here.
    Could you help me understand why the overall budget numbers 
have gone down significantly for missile defense in the 
upcoming budget versus what we did last year? That is what it 
appears to me. Is it because of the budget caps or maybe there 
is other priorities? So I am trying to understand that.
    Mr. Hill. Sure. I will start. Definitely, the Fiscal 
Responsibility Act did set a ceiling. We had to work within 
that ceiling. You had must-pay bills, payroll increases, 
healthcare programs, child support, a lot of those things that 
go on in the Defense Department. And then you find you are 
having to make some choices in your end game.
    Mr. Bacon. Right.
    Mr. Hill. My readiness today for the things I am working 
on, my investment for the future, not easy choices. That is the 
general environment.
    Mr. Bacon. I think it is something for the Armed Services 
Committee to maybe review. Seems like missile defense is an 
area that we do not want to be cutting. I mean, I know the 
budget has gone up a little bit, but I was just surprised to 
see the amount of the cut going on for missile defense.
    A second question. I am not sure who is appropriate--the 
best to ask this to. It is concerning when you see the bases, 
particularly like Iraq, being repeatedly hit out of--from Iran. 
What could we be doing better to protect our forward bases from 
this, or what are we not doing? I know this could be a theater 
commander's question too, but you have a great insight.
    General Gainey. Congressman, thank you. I will take that 
question.
    In my current role and previous roles specifically is the 
Army is providing the preponderance of missile defense and 
counter-UAS defense for those bases forward. Again, continuing 
to add funding for the forward warfighter to employ 
capabilities. You heard General Kurilla advocate for the 
additional funding that he has requested for additional 
counter-UAS capability to proliferate across all of our bases 
forward.
    We do have capability there now that has proven successful. 
We are putting in technology and directed energy and also other 
type of kinetic systems, and continuing funding of those 
systems will allow us to put in volume additional capability on 
those bases.
    Mr. Bacon. Thank you.
    It is alarming to see the amount of targeting Iran is doing 
at our bases in Iraq, and seems like we should be doing 
everything we can to protect against that.
    In the last NDAA, we put some missile defense measures in 
for Kurdistan. How will that look, you think, or will that be a 
hard challenge for you all to accomplish? There was a provision 
that helped the Kurds get missile defense in the last NDAA.
    Mr. Hill. Yeah, I am sorry, I actually heard Kyrgyzstan, 
but----
    Mr. Bacon. Well, the Kurds.
    Mr. Hill. Kurdistan.
    Mr. Bacon. Sorry.
    Mr. Hill. No, that is just my hearing. So, absolutely, 
support to the Kurds have been part of this. Balancing that 
relationship, their relations in the region is also part of 
that question.
    One of the other--to add to some of General Gainey's 
comments as well, we have also in the Red Sea context obviously 
struck back at some of those sites where some of these Iran-
aligned militia groups operate, the Houthis most notably, and 
that is an essential complement to the force protection the 
missile defense provides.
    Mr. Bacon. Thank you.
    One last question for General Gainey, if I may. We have 
been reading some reports of fatigue and burnout because of the 
high ops [operations] tempo for your servicemen and -women. 
What can we do to help mitigate that?
    General Gainey. The Army has taken a holistic look, and as 
you heard me earlier highlight the significant strain on the 
force. But what I will tell you is, I am amazed at how those 
soldiers continue to respond and continue to maintain a 
positive attitude and high reenlistment rate moving forward.
    As the Army looks to get after how do we improve the 
quality of life and improve the op tempo, goes to our 
modernization efforts and continuing supportive funding for our 
modernization efforts, because Patriot system is the most 
deployed system because it is our workhorse system. As we 
modernize with integrated battle command system as the core 
point inside of that modernization, we will then integrate 
several different effecters and capability that provides the 
range of capabilities across several threats. So you will no 
longer have to deploy just a Patriot battery; you can now 
deploy several different components. And the Army's growth of 
that capability in the last R-struct will also add additional 
capacity, so that will help moving forward.
    Mr. Bacon. Well, we appreciate the men and women who serve 
in your command and, in that matter, for all of your all's 
commands. And missile defense is such an important mission and 
it is in high demand everywhere, so we are grateful to you and 
your people.
    Mr. Lamborn. Perfect timing. We will now go to 
Representative Vasquez.
    Mr. Vasquez. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you to the Ranking 
Member.
    Thank you to our witnesses for being here today this 
morning.
    I have the privilege of representing New Mexico's Second 
District, home to White Sands Missile Range. It is the 
birthplace of America's space and missile program. And though 
White Sands continues to be the Department of Defense's 
premiere research and testing facility for our Nation's most 
important weapons programs, they also continue to face 
struggles maintaining modern technology and facilities.
    Now, during my visit to White Sands this January, base 
leadership shared with me that their long-range radars, which 
are supposed to provide critical tracking capabilities for 
weapons testing, have been in service and have not been 
upgraded since the 1960s, posing significant challenges to 
keeping them operational and in line with modern missile 
technology.
    Beyond these maintenance challenges, I have understood that 
these radar challenges and the failures during tests have 
become increasingly frequent, occurring as often as five times 
per month and with tracking and accuracies that are off by 
hundreds to thousands of yards. Not being able to accurately 
track weapons during testing not only poses a safety risk to 
the folks that are working there but also to surrounding 
communities, but threatens our readiness and national security, 
and I think that is completely unacceptable.
    We should do everything in our power to ensure White Sands 
has the necessary equipment to safely and accurately track 
weapons tests so that we are providing our warfighters with the 
best tools and information possible to accomplish their 
mission.
    Lieutenant General Gainey, are diminished testing 
conditions like these acceptable to you? And how do deficient 
testing standards pose a threat to our national security?
    General Gainey. Congressman, thank you for the question. 
White Sands Missile Range remains an integral part, as you 
know, to our testing in the Army's Air and Missile Defense 
Program. As the senior mission commander for Kwajalein Atoll, I 
also have strategic testing at those sites where I also 
maintain an infrastructure and sensors to be able to get after 
that. And I believe continuing funding and improvements of all 
of those capabilities are critical to continuing to ensure that 
we have the best capability as we test our critical systems 
moving forward.
    Mr. Vasquez. Thank you so much. In New Mexico, as you know, 
Lieutenant General, we have a long legacy of not just missile 
testing, but a lot of research and development that has 
contributed to the strength of this Nation's national security. 
We also have a toxic legacy of impacts at local surrounding 
communities from testing activities, which is one of the 
reasons I am fighting and others here in Congress are fighting 
to reauthorize RECA [Radiation Exposure Compensation Act]. And 
so we just want to make sure that those technologies are 
updated, and that we don't make the same mistakes of the past, 
at the same time, protecting national security.
    Now, Mr. Hill, given the importance of White Sands testing 
capabilities, what is stopping the department currently from 
updating these critical testing systems?
    Mr. Hill. Congressman Vasquez, I am not familiar with the 
specific decisions on those, but we can certainly take the 
question. And in the general sense, obviously, the previous 
discussions about the overall top line and making tradeoffs 
within finite resources I am sure is part of the calculations 
that is happening.
    Mr. Vasquez. Thank you, Mr. Hill. I appreciate you paying 
attention to this issue in future budget requests. Now beyond 
the missile testing and evaluation done at White Sands, we are 
home to the largest manufacturer of space grade solar cells 
that are a key component to providing power to our satellites. 
Producers in my district power a significant portion of our 
Nation's national security satellites directly contributing to 
the strength of our missile warning fleet and space.
    Mr. Hill, for components like solar cells that are critical 
for our missile defense and warning infrastructure, what does 
it mean to the Department to have a reliable, domestic supply 
chain? And how can Congress help support robust production 
capabilities like those in my State?
    Mr. Hill. I think these reliable domestic production 
chains, we see how important they are across a number of 
fields. One of the things that we have done is we most recently 
issued our commercial space integration strategy, recognizing 
how much innovation is being driven by the commercial side of 
space. And understanding that we in the Defense Department need 
to shift from trying to contort them into meeting our 
requirements to being flexible about our requirements so we can 
leverage what they are doing. That would be an example of 
creating an environment in which more innovation happens inside 
domestic production capacity.
    Mr. Vasquez. I appreciate that, Mr. Hill. And we certainly 
are at the forefront, I think, of that commercialization, both 
in the research and development phase but also know in light 
assembly and manufacturing when it comes to all these different 
components that are going into these modern systems. And I 
appreciate your continued attention and investment to New 
Mexico's Second District. Thank you so much. Chairman, I yield 
back.
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you. Representative Strong.
    Mr. Strong. Thank you, Chairman Lamborn, and Ranking Member 
Moulton, and I thank each of you for being here today.
    General, it is great having each of you in my office last 
week. It was interesting to learn that not only is Huntsville 
the Rocket City, but it is also apparently the City of Love 
since this is where you met your wife, General James.
    And I also found out that General Gainey's parents met at 
Red Stone Arsenal. So it is interesting to hear that. Red Stone 
Arsenal is truly making a name for itself. I have said it 
before, and I will say it again, we have got some great things 
coming out of Huntsville.
    General Collins, just a few weeks ago, General Guillot with 
NORTHCOM [U.S. Northern Command] reconfirmed to this committee 
that the next generation interceptor is critical for defending 
the homeland.
    Last spring, your predecessor testified to the benefits of 
keeping multiple contractors on the NGI program through 
critical design review. But since late last year, we have 
learned that this is no longer the plan. This really concerns 
me and many others.
    Looking back to 2019 when the redesign kill vehicle--RKV--
program was canceled, we had all our eggs in one basket. There 
wasn't a backup plan. And because we didn't have a backup plan, 
we had to extend the life of our interceptors and start an 
entirely new program. This cost taxpayers a lot of money, it 
costs us capability, and it costs us time when there is a 
ticking clock over in the Indo-Pacific and throughout the 
world.
    What has changed? Why is MDA now making an earlier than 
planned down-select decision before critical design review next 
year?
    General Collins. Congressman, thanks for that question on 
NGI. It is absolutely our foundation for homeland defense into 
the future. And we have continued to focus the agency very much 
on NGI and its incorporation in no later than 2028.
    Two things to note, one we have talked about is certainly 
the fiscal realities and the decisions that needed to be made 
with--across the missile defense portfolio has been far-
reaching. But second, we have also been keeping the NGI program 
on track. Both primes have completed a preliminary design 
review. Both have completed full qualification of all of their 
parts for the radiation environment. And many of the 
subcomponents have been taken to the critical design review 
stage of design. All of that brought together, we, the agency, 
believe we have a full, in-depth understanding of the designs 
from the two primes. We fully understand, and the transition to 
production plans and the risks that are still involved with 
both primes. And we believe that the level of risk is well 
below the Department's standard of making a decision such as 
this. So we believe we have the technical depth and knowledge 
and understanding of risk as we move forward to make that 
decision.
    Mr. Strong. Thank you. I know that some very smart people 
have done great work to keep our current interceptors in the 
game longer, but we cannot keep life-extending the fleet. Is 
that right?
    General Collins. That is correct, sir.
    Mr. Strong. Thank you. I know that the confidence and NGI 
succeeding is high. I credit a big part of that to the 
incredible work being done at Red Stone Arsenal with both 
industry teams in Huntsville, Alabama. But the consequences of 
something going wrong with NGI are much higher now than it was 
back in 2019. Would that be a correct statement?
    General Collins. Yes, sir. There is still additional risk 
ahead of us on the program, and we will continue to stay very 
focused on where that risk is. Sorry. We will continue to stay 
focused on where that risk is and focus on mitigating that risk 
as best as possible.
    Mr. Strong. I totally agree. They are much higher this 
time, because just as you said, we can't fall back on doing 
another life extension of the current system. We have already 
used our get-out-of-jail free card with the RKV. I worry that 
the Biden administration is wanting to dismantle the 
significant industrial capacity that has been built up over 
decades. And MDA's budget and plans are taking a detrimental 
hit due to some short-sighted decisions here.
    Is there a report or study that MDA has conducted that 
supports down-selecting before critical design review over 
sticking with the original acquisition strategy?
    General Collins. No, sir, we do not have any reporter 
assessment on that.
    Mr. Strong. Thank you. So where budget constraints, the 
primary or initial reason for the change in strategy, or is it 
because the teams have progressed better than expected?
    General Collins. I would have say, sir, it is a combination 
of both. Both teams have progressed very, very well. But there 
was a catalyst that was driven by the fiscal decision as well.
    Mr. Strong. I thank each of you for being here. Mr. 
Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you. Representative Carbajal.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hearing all the 
nexus that you have to Representative Strong's district and not 
Paradise, which is my district, makes me start questioning your 
judgment, I must say. We know our adversaries possess 
hypersonic capabilities. Defending against and defeating this 
threat is proving to be challenging, both technically and 
physically.
    General Collins, how are advanced manufacturing 
technologies, such as additive manufacturing being utilized to 
reduce costs and acquisition timelines for future hypersonic 
defense programs?
    General Collins. Thank you, Congressman, for that question. 
I fully agree with your notes on the difficulty in developing 
an industry base to accelerate our hypersonic offensive and 
defensive weapons as we move forward. And in my previous job 
within the Air Force buying hypersonic weapons, we had the same 
challenges is developing the industry base to produce critical 
technologies we require for hypersonic weapons.
    At the Missile Defense Agency, we are very focused on 
bringing any of the new advanced manufacturing capabilities and 
technologies to bear to help war and reduce costs of building 
hypersonic weapons in the future as well as helping to scale 
and increase pace of capacity of lines going forward.
    We are very much looking into advanced manufacturing or 
additive manufacturing. As you mentioned, we have a group 
within our S&T [science and technology] division that is 
closely looking at and investing in small business maturation 
capabilities of additive manufacturing and particular 
capabilities that are required within a hypersonic weapon.
    One in particular is carbon/carbon additive manufacturing, 
which is key to the front edge thermal protection systems of 
our hypersonic weapons. A key technology and a limiting factor 
within our ability to scale the industry base. So we are very 
much investing across the traditional and nontraditional bases 
to ensure we have the manufacturing capability for hypersonic 
weapons.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. General Collins, earlier this 
year, the Missile Defense Agency, MDA, launched two hypersonic 
and ballistic tracking space satellites, HBTSS. MDA received 
additional funds in fiscal year 2024 defense appropriation bill 
to do calibration testing and training on threat representative 
hypersonic targets.
    Can you please describe the status of the satellites, and 
how MDA is going to execute the additional $25 million for 
calibration provided in fiscal year 2024 omnibus?
    General Collins. Yes, Congressman, absolutely. It was a 
major activity on Valentine's Day of this year when we lost 
the----
    Mr. Carbajal. That is my anniversary, by the way.
    General Collins. Sir, those satellites are still 
progressing through launch and early orbit testing. We have a 
very slow methodical process whereby we turn on the satellites, 
we turn on the payload. Over the last month, we have had first 
light, what we call the first time we have turned on the 
payloads, and actually looked with them and started taking a 
look at the data to calibrate. That calibration continues. We 
started to do a number of cooperative activities where there 
may be a launch or a test that somebody else is executing. And 
we have been using those as capabilities, as opportunities to 
calibrate that payload.
    Later this summer, we will be executing our first HTB 
Hypersonic Testbed One launch in June. That is a launch 
specifically designed for our HBTSS satellites to look at a 
hypersonic threat and track it through its time of flight. They 
use--there will be another HTB2 test later in the summer. Those 
are the two same wickets that we are looking at to calibrate 
and certify the fire control solution and technology that we 
have.
    Back to the earlier conversation, another opportunity we 
are getting is the Space Development Agency for wide field 
review satellites were launched on the same booster. They are 
in plane with our two satellites. And so we are actually going 
to be able to utilize some testing of the wide field review 
capability in concert with RHBTSS technology as well. A key 
capability as we look forward to a future missile warning, 
missile defense, and missile defense space architecture. Thank 
you, sir.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. General James, the value add of 
HBTSS is that it will provide fire control quality data to 
track and intercept hypersonic threats. Can you speak to the 
importance of fire control quality data, the importance of 
using threat represent--representative hypersonic targets to 
calibrate and train against, and how space command plans to do 
that across future year defense programs?
    General James. Yes, Congressman, I sure can. Thanks for the 
question. I came a long way. I have a few things to say. So 
thanks for the question. Absolutely, important, incredible. As 
SPACECOM continues to flesh out its transregional missile 
defense mission, and we continue to press on that, and we see 
those natural links between what you have heard the other 
colleagues say here about the convergence of the space and the 
missile defense mission. How we use our space assets and 
develop those to get at the technology changes we see to your 
point, the hyper velocity or the cruise missile threats that we 
see, we are going to have to use space-based systems. We are 
going to have to be able to provide that level of targeting 
quality information. And so, that's exactly the things that we 
are looking on as we continue to develop the net centric 
command and control systems, and the information systems, like 
C2BMC [Command Control Battle Management Communications] as we 
continue to press for that. You will see that in our list as an 
important factor that we need to continue to press on to 
increase our ability to command and control and pass that 
information from close to sensor, sensor to best shooter to be 
able to make those connections. There is a lot of work that 
happening more than just in USSPACECOM, and are tying into all 
of that with MDA, with SNDC, Army's convergence, Nimble Titan, 
lots of different exercises, JIAMDO. Nimble fire. We exercise 
all of those to continue to build our expertise in that.
    Absolutely critical because terrestrial sensors are not 
going to allow us to track and target the threats that we see 
coming the way we have in the past. That will have to be space-
based. And all the things that General Collins just talked 
about from SDA and the work with HBTSS from the space force and 
other capabilities, absolutely important, and integrating 
commercial and integrating the allies. That is an area that 
USSPACECOM has done tons of work with over the years, and it 
falls naturally to how we are going to move forward with 
missile defense.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. And thank you, Mr. Chair, for the 
additional time. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Lamborn. Well, it is really more for Lieutenant General 
James. Representative Wilson.
    Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Indeed, I 
hope Mr. Secretary General, as you see, that incredibly, this 
is bipartisan with the leadership of our chairman and ranking 
member, and even including Congressman Carbajal. And so--but 
truly, we want you to succeed. And I have a personal interest. 
I served 31 years in the Army Guard and our Reserves, and I 
really appreciate military service. And I am grateful my oldest 
son served in Iraq field artillery. My second son was a doctor 
out of track, he was in the Navy, but I still claim him serving 
in Baghdad, my third son, Signal in Sinai. And my youngest a 
year, Afghanistan as an engineer. So all credit to my wife, 
Roxanne, for actually training these guys.
    But the bottom line is we want you to succeed. And, 
equally, it is more important than ever, Mr. Secretary General, 
we are in a conflict we did not choose. And to me, it is a 
conflict, a war, between dictators with rule of gun who are 
invading democracies with rule of law. Sadly, it began February 
24, 2022, when war criminal Putin just murderously invaded 
Ukraine, just seeking out civilians to murder civilians. I have 
been there to Bucha to see the inhumanity of what has been 
done. I actually was in Kiev in August last year possibly for 
the first hypersonic missile attack. And the tactic of war 
criminal Putin is so inhuman, and that is to attack a civilian 
target like an apartment complex, and then that is not the real 
attack. Twenty years--twenty minutes later when the first 
responders are there, the fire service, the EMS personnel law 
enforcement, that is when the real attack occurs.
    And it is just shocking to think of the tactics that Putin 
has to try to intimidate the people of Ukraine, just as they 
did the people of the Aleppo in Syria, and then to come back 
and try to intimidate first responders. Then, of course, it 
continued on October the 7th when the puppets of the regime in 
Tehran invaded and, again, 1,200 innocent civilians mercilessly 
murdered intentionally without any sense of propriety or 
concept. Indeed not in uniform, just everything that could be a 
violation of laws of war they conducted. And then, of course, 
sadly we have had over 150 attacks that have occurred in the 
Red Sea, as correctly identified by Congressman Moulton in 
Iraq. Over and over again, we see these attacks. Over 150. And 
then culminating on January the 28th with three young members 
of the Army Reserves from Georgia who were killed by a 
Hezbollah, again, another puppet of Iran, killing three of our 
personnel and wounding 40 others.
    And so, it is just incredible to me the challenges that we 
have, and we want the best. And wanting the best, General 
Gainey, in particular, I am concerned with the level of 
deployment of such an important branch, the air defense 
artillery. And, actually, I want to commend. It is no surprise, 
General, Congressperson Don Bacon was ahead of the curse. And 
that is the deployment level that is being conducted. And I 
know with the leadership we have, bipartisan, we would like to 
back you up in any way to try to address that.
    With all of this in mind, General Gainey, in particular, 
how are we addressing the technological development of the 
Chinese Communist Party war criminal Putin, the regime in 
Tehran, the Kim Jong Un? How are we addressing this?
    General Gainey. Congressman, thank you for the question and 
appreciate your thoughts. As--I will speak first on the Army 
perspective. The Army is undergoing its most modernized effort 
in several, several years. We are moving from a Patriot centric 
force, and I highlighted earlier how we are asking Patriot to 
essentially do everything in a fight, give after tactical 
ballistic missiles, cruise missiles, and, in some cases, with 
our partners even going after drones with the Patriot system. 
The U.S., through our modernization program, U.S. Army, is now 
looking at integrated battle command system as the cornerstone 
of that system. We have that system in test right now with our 
unit out at Fort Bliss. What that unit--that integrate--that C2 
system does is it integrates several components and not just a 
system. It takes a lower tier air missile defense sensor as the 
cornerstone of that capability, and then it adds in other 
sensors, whether ground-based sensors or airborne platforms, 
and also adds in shooters into that common C2. So now given the 
operator to leverage several different sensors to provide 
several different effectors against the range of threats. And 
also that lower-tier air missile defense sensor provides 
significantly more capability than the current system does, 
which would allow it to now optimize most of those interceptors 
that are part of that C2 system.
    And if you look at this challenge from a joint perspective 
in my JFCC IMD hat, that is where we look at how do you bring 
all of these systems together in a larger C2 construct? And 
that is something as we work towards the defensive wall, one of 
the areas we are looking at is how do you take the Army 
integrative battle command system integrated with some of the 
systems that the missile defense agency is putting together on 
Guam? And so, therefore, we are looking at we will have an 
enduring solution that moves forward that essentially 
integrates all those several systems, leverages the sensors and 
the shooters together. That is the medium, lower to medium 
range.
    Now, if you look at the counter UAS in the protection to 
the maneuver capability, the Army has also significantly 
invested in that area also where we have added several 
maneuver, short-range defense systems integrated into our 
division in BCPs to be able to provide capability against 
cruise missiles. Looking at technology like directed energy, 
50-kilowatt directed energy that we have deployed out there 
right now testing that capability, and also refielding high-
power microwaves into our formations to be able to get at those 
threats.
    So if you look at a capability, a system that is able 
integrate all of these sensors, all of these effectors, and 
then be able to put the proper fires on target, the appropriate 
interceptor or effect on the appropriate target, that is how we 
are moving forward in modernization. That is how it is going to 
allow us to move forward.
    Mr. Lamborn. Thank you. Representative Garamendi.
    Mr. Garamendi. Thank you. If there is ever a committee that 
is faced with a problem, it is this one. I am on a lot of 
military committees, and I never had a committee that had so 
many acronyms. To try to understand what each and every one of 
these things actually is, it is a challenge. But I am going to 
try to take this in a different direction. Following on some of 
the work that my colleague, Mr. Moulton, put forward earlier in 
his remarks, we will forever be playing defense, trying to 
catch up with the offense. We can use the NFL [National 
Football League], we can use the experience of what we are 
hearing here today. Much of this discussion today is about 
defense.
    And we know that in that defensive environment, there is 
great risk. What has happened over the course of the last 23 
years is a very significant shift in this entire arena. Prior 
to 2002, there was an ABM treaty, an antiballistic missile 
treaty. It would do well for all of us to understand the 
details of the actual language of the treaty. We usually think 
it only applies to intercontinental ballistic missiles. It 
didn't. It went beyond that. The United States withdrew from 
that. To this day, Russia uses the withdrawal of the--of 
America from the ABM treaty to justify their continued buildup 
of intercontinental ballistic missile systems and the weapons 
that go with it.
    Interestingly, in recent days, the last few years, China is 
using that very same withdrawal, American withdrawal from the 
ABM treaty system to justify its buildup of intercontinental 
ballistic missiles, including silos, which this committee has 
discussed.
    It is fair to argue that that withdrawal from that treaty 
has led to the current nuclear arms race, and much of the 
discussion today has to do with how we are going to defend 
using the GMD system. And my concern here is that we are in a 
never-ending cycle of offense followed by defense that presumes 
to be successful against the then-known offense, and yet when 
we are around.
    My point here is that as much time as we are spending on, 
in this committee, defense, we ought to be looking at how to 
break this cycle of an arms' race. Now you can add the nuclear 
piece to it, which you must do, and it becomes even more 
significant. It is never-ending. And I know the members of this 
committee, and certainly the gentlemen before us understand in 
detail what this race is all about, the risks that are in it.
    And my question to you, Mr. Hill, is, is it useful for us 
policymakers and for you and your team to spend as much time 
thinking about how to stop the cycle, or at least slow down the 
cycle of offense, defense, defense, offense, and back and 
forth, all of which creates greater risk? Mr. Hill, I would 
love to hear your thoughts on it.
    Mr. Hill. Sure. Congressman Garamendi, very, very key piece 
in the entire puzzle of what you are getting after here. 
Clearly, there was a time, there was an era when we had someone 
we could work with on the other side of a negotiating table. 
During the Soviet Union, that era and the Cold War, we did 
negotiate agreements with them successfully. We are in a--and 
that is a key piece to any kind of arms control situation. Do 
you have someone you can work with? Now, you have three, and 
you have a very different Russia in some ways in terms of can 
you deal with them as a credible negotiating partner right now?
    So, it is not to--it is to say you always need to be 
thinking about that as one of the pieces of what you have to 
work with to try and maintain strategic stability, defense, 
offense, as well as can you come up to a confidence level with 
somebody on the other side of the table. China's a third player 
in this now, which adds to the complications. But I think the 
tool never goes away. It is how do you use it in the 
environment you have?
    Mr. Garamendi. I am going to take 5 more seconds. Every one 
of the arms control mechanisms that went into effect during the 
Cold War occurred almost immediately after the most difficult 
of moments in that Cold War. I will let it go at that. That is 
a historical issue. But thank you. I am out of time. And for 
me, I am going to spend as much time talking about this as I do 
about offense and defense. Thank you.
    Mr. Lamborn. Representative Stefanik.
    Ms. Stefanik. Thank you, Chairman Lamborn. First, I would 
like to correct the record earlier in this hearing. The ranking 
member said that the Department of Defense chose Fort Drum as 
the preferred missile defense site for the third homeland 
missile defense site nearly 10 years ago. That is incorrect. 
Despite the fact that you said that is correct, General 
Collins, you are aware that the date that that was designated 
was 2019, correct?
    General Collins. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Stefanik. So the 10 years ago was incorrect?
    General Collins. Yes, ma'am, 4 years ago.
    Ms. Stefanik. Great. You also are aware that just last 
year, General Milley and Vice Admiral Hill testified in front 
of this committee that the construction of a third site at Fort 
Drum would be strategically worthwhile, correct?
    General Collins. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Stefanik. Are you aware of that testimony?
    General Collins. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Stefanik. Yes. And you are also aware that in multiple 
NDAAs, the language designating Fort Drum was the preferred 
third site for an East Coast missile defense site has been 
included in multiple NDAAs. Are you aware of that?
    General Collins. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Stefanik. And just let the record reflect, the ranking 
member voted in support of that language, not once, but 
multiple times, as well as voted for appropriations as did the 
majority of the members of this committee.
    Now, in the fiscal year 2014 Appropriations Act and the 
NDAA, we worked to secure $10 million in planning and design 
funds for the Missile Defense Agency to begin construction 
activities for a third homeland missile defense site at Fort 
Drum.
    My question to you, General Collins, is as the director of 
MDA, can you confirm to me that this $10 million is being used 
as dictated by Congress as explicitly stated by Congress at 
Fort Drum to begin the planning and design of a third missile 
defense site.
    General Collins. Ma'am, the $10 million has been authorized 
and appropriated for that purpose, and that is the purpose we 
are executing it for.
    Ms. Stefanik. And what are you using that for?
    General Collins. That is to do the initial planning and 
development of design for continental interceptor site to take 
it to the 10 percent design level.
    Ms. Stefanik. At Fort Drum?
    General Collins. We are pursuing an agnostic design that 
would support----
    Ms. Stefanik. That is not what the language said.
    General Collins. By providing and--by doing it as an 
agnostic site, we would not slow down the capability to do it.
    Ms. Stefanik. That is not what the language that was passed 
by Congress said. And you understand that in the NDAA for 
multiple years, it had designated Fort Drum. There were three 
sites under consideration in three different States. There was 
a process and environmental impact study. This has been a very 
thorough process. And so, you are saying to me today that the 
$10 million is not designated at Fort Drum for the planning and 
design?
    General Collins. It is--it supports continental interceptor 
site at any location that is determined to be optimal in the 
future in line with the 2019 memo that the Department signed 
out.
    Ms. Stefanik. Designating Fort Drum?
    General Collins. Fort Drum, and it also designated that 
when a requirement was set for a continental site, that there 
would have to a be readdress and a reassessment of location 
based on performance.
    Ms. Stefanik. Even though you said in my office, when we 
met General Collins in my office, that you understood that the 
$10 million would go to the design planning at Fort Drum as 
specified by the NDAA.
    General Collins. When a decision--if a decision is made to 
pursue a Fort Drum site, the $10 million will be 100 percent in 
line with being able to accomplish that.
    Ms. Stefanik. But you do understand that multiple NDAAs 
Fort Drum has been designated as well as by DOD?
    General Collins. I am aware, ma'am, of the report that the 
department signed out and the previous NDAAs.
    Ms. Stefanik. Okay. Great. With that, I will yield back.
    Mr. Lamborn. All right. Thank you. That concludes the 
public portion of this hearing. We have votes that will be 
called roughly 11:45 or shortly thereafter. So we will be in 
recess, and we will go into a closed hearing up in room 2337, 
until such time as votes are called, and then we will adjourn 
the subcommittee at that point. So we will be in recess and be 
upstairs.
    [Whereupon, at 11:18 a.m., the committee proceeded in 
closed session.]
    
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                            A P P E N D I X

                             April 12, 2024
    
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              PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

                             April 12, 2024

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              QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS POST HEARING

                             April 12, 2024

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                   QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. MOULTON

    Mr. Moulton. Given that the President recently assigned to 
U.S. Space Command the responsibility for coordinating trans-
regional missile defense, how does U.S. Space Command 
contribute to the complex and strategic role that missile 
defense plays in our national security?
    General James. The transfer of the trans-regional missile 
defense (TRMD) responsibility aligns with the global sensor 
management (GSM) responsibility under USSPACECOM and allows 
more efficient use of kinetic and non-kinetic sensor to shooter 
chains across multiple Combatant Commands. USSPACECOM is 
uniquely positioned to support and contribute to cross-
Combatant Command coordination from the tactical to the 
strategic levels. USSPACECOM provides dynamic management of 
global terrestrial, afloat, and space-based multi-mission 
sensors while optimizing and defending associated command and 
control architectures. GSM and TRMD alignment create additional 
efficiencies by consolidating policy, planning, assessment, 
intelligence, training, and exercise support to the Joint 
Force. USSPACECOM provides planning support to other Combatant 
Commands, including a global perspective of Ally and Partner 
capabilities. USSPACECOM also ensures our defenses continue to 
evolve by articulating and emphasizing warfighter requirements; 
advising, assessing, and integrating warfighter feedback into 
the capability development process; and enabling enhanced 
synchronization to future operations.
                                ------                                


                  QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. CARBAJAL

    Mr. Carbajal. How are flight test opportunities being 
provided to enable the next generation of intercept systems?
    General Collins. The Missile Defense Agency (MDA) follows a 
rigorous process to develop the MDA Integrated Master Test Plan 
(IMTP) on an annual basis, documenting the planned test 
opportunities of each system. The IMTP is delivered to Congress 
each spring synchronized with the President's Budget 
submission. The IMTP development process involves multiple 
phases to collect program requirements, design and schedule 
tests, cost estimate, and evaluate against budget constraints 
aligned with MDA's flight test priorities. This process intakes 
program requirements both within and beyond the Future Years 
Defense Program (FYDP) years to ensure long-lead test 
resourcing can be addressed within the FYDP. Additionally, the 
IMTP development process closely coordinates program test 
requirements with other external Department of Defense 
stakeholders.
    External stakeholders, including but are not limited to the 
following:
     LDirector, Operational Test and Evaluation (DOT&E)
     LOffice of the Undersecretary of Defense for 
Research and Engineering Director, Developmental Test, 
Evaluation, and Assessments (DTE&A)
     LCommander, Joint Functional Component Command for 
Integrated Missile Defense (JFCC IMD) (representing the 
combatant commands)
     LCommander, United States (U.S.) Army Test and 
Evaluation Command (ATEC)
     LCommander, U.S. Air Force Operational Test and 
Evaluation Center (AFOTEC)
     LDirector, U.S. Navy Operational Test and 
Evaluation Force (OPTEVFOR);
     LSpace Training and Readiness Command (STARCOM)
     LCommander, Joint Interoperability Test Command 
(JITC).
    DOT&E, DTE&A, JFCC IMD, ATEC, AFOTEC, OPTEVFOR, STARCOM, 
and JITC members engage with MDA on a weekly basis to develop 
flight test opportunities as reflected in the IMTP. These 
jointly coordinated test opportunities enable and demonstrate 
the capabilities of future Missile Defense System 
functionality, including currently documented test schedules 
for the Next Generation Interceptor, Glide Phase Interceptor, 
and Defense of Guam programs in IMTP v25.1.
    Mr. Carbajal. Do existing hypersonic defense strategies 
focus on both strategic and conventional adversary threats, or 
are these threats being treated separately?
    General Collins. Current United States (U.S.) policy 
distinguishes between regional hypersonic missile threats and 
threats capable of striking the U.S. homeland. It prioritizes 
the development of global warning and tracking capabilities to 
address all hypersonic threats (threats regionally and to the 
homeland), and the development of active and passive defense 
capabilities to defend against regional hypersonic threats. 
Though the United States maintains the right to defend itself 
against attacks from any source, per longstanding policy, the 
United States relies on strategic deterrence to address large 
and intercontinental-range, nuclear missile threats to the U.S. 
homeland from Russia and the People's Republic of China. I 
defer to the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy 
for more information on U.S. hypersonic defense strategy and 
policy.
    Mr. Carbajal. How do the estimated hypersonic interceptor 
acquisition quantities compare to quantities for existing 
ballistic or cruise missile interceptors?
    General Collins. There are currently an approximate 1,650 
ballistic missile interceptors which include Ground Based 
Interceptor, Standard Missile three, Standard Missile six, and 
Terminal High Altitude Area Defense. Of the 1,650 ballistic 
missile interceptors, approximately 140 interceptors are dual-
use to counter hypersonic threats. These quantities do not 
include Service capabilities or cruise missile interceptors 
external to the Missile Defense Agency.
                                ------                                


                    QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY MR. BACON

    Mr. Bacon. I am concerned that, with few exceptions, most 
key U.S. military installations lack dedicated land based air 
and missile defense:
    A) What is the Department of Defense strategy to ensure our 
overseas air bases and key installations in Europe, the Indo-
Pacific and the Middle East are defended from air and missile 
attack?
    B) Has the Department of Defense established a current 
critical asset list (CAL) and defended asset list (DAL) for key 
military installations and operating locations in Europe, the 
Indo-Pacific and the Middle East? Who approves each of these 
lists?
    C) How does the Department determine which military service 
is responsible for developing, resourcing and operating land-
based air and missile defense systems for locations that appear 
on each CAL/DAL in Europe, the Indo-Pacific and the Middle 
East?
    D) How many sites on each CAL in Europe, the Indo-Pacific 
and the Middle East are considered undefended (e.g. on the CAL 
but not on the DAL)?
    E) What organization in DoD is responsible for organizing, 
training, equipping and presenting forces to USSNORTHCOM to 
defend key military installations in the Continental United 
States from cruise and hypersonic missile attack from an 
adversary?
    Mr. Hill. A) In accordance with the 2022 Missile Defense 
Review, the Department of Defense works with allies and 
partners to provide threat-based, mission-tailored air and 
missile defense of overseas air bases and key installations to 
deter and defend against attack and enable conditions for 
effective U.S., allied, and partner military operations should 
deterrence fail.
    This approach seeks to leverage U.S. and partner 
capabilities while balancing near-term risk to mission and 
forces with longer-term Department of Defense efforts to build 
integrated air and missile defense force readiness, capability, 
and capacity. We accomplish these objectives through a careful 
evaluation of air and missile threats and the assignment of 
U.S. Integrated Air and Missile Defense (IAMD) capabilities 
through the Department's Global Force Management (GFM) process.
    Additional details can be provided in a classified setting.
    B) The Department of Defense has established a critical 
asset list (CAL) and a defended asset list (DAL) for Europe, 
the Indo-Pacific region, and the Middle East. CALs and DALs are 
created and approved by combatant commander for their assigned 
area of responsibility to address mission requirements and 
reduce risk associated with current and emerging air and 
missile threats.
    C) The Secretary of Defense's initial decision for force 
allocation is ordered through the Global Force Management 
Allocation Plan (GFMAP). The Secretary directs changes in 
military service responsibilities for land-based air and 
missile defense informed by CCMD requirements, Joint 
Requirements Oversight Council (JROC) recommendations, fiscal 
considerations, and changes in the national security 
environment. The Secretary of Defense determines the assignment 
of land-based missile defense assets among the combatant 
commands and determines the forces for land-based missile 
defense operations through the Global Force Management process. 
More than one military service may be tasked to support a CCMD 
requirement.
    D) The Combatant Commander is responsible for determining 
how best to employ assigned military forces to protect assets 
on the critical asset list and defended asset list. The number 
of assets protected, and level of protection offered are 
dynamic and can change rapidly based upon mission requirements, 
threats, and available resources. Additional details can be 
provided in a classified setting.
    E) The Secretaries of the Military Departments, through the 
Military Services, are responsible for organizing, training, 
and equipping forces (including Reserve Component forces). The 
Secretary of Defense determines which forces are assigned or 
allocated to USNORTHCOM to defend key military installations in 
the continental United States from missile attack.

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