[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING

=======================================================================



                                HEARING

                               before the

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-79

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
       
       
       
       
                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





                    Available via http://govinfo.gov                   
                              ______
                                
                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

57-073                    WASHINGTON : 2026
    
	
	
	
	
	
	
	
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                         SUBCOMMITTEE ON HEALTH

               MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa, Chairwoman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       JULIA BROWNLEY, California, 
    American Samoa                       Ranking Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               MIKE LEVIN, California
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin             Pennsylvania
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas               GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois




Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
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of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
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current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.








                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Mariannette Miller-Meeks, Chairwoman...............     1
The Honorable Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, Acting Ranking Member..     2

                         SPEAKING FROM THE DAIS

The Honorable Morgan Luttrell, U.S. House of Representatives, 
  (TX-08)........................................................     3
The Honorable Scott Franklin, U.S. House of Representatives, (FL-
  18)............................................................     4
The Honorable Gabriel Vasquez, U.S. House of Representatives, 
  (NM-02)........................................................     5
The Honorable Keith Self, U.S. House of Representatives, (TX-03).     6
The Honorable Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, U.S. House of 
  Representatives, (WA-03).......................................     7
The Honorable Steve Womack, U.S. House of Representatives, (AR-
  03)............................................................     8
The Honorable Jill Tokuda, U.S. House of Representatives, (HI-02)     9
The Honorable Lori Chavez-DeRemer, U.S. House of Representatives, 
  (OR-05)........................................................    10

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Dr. Carolyn Clancy, Assistant Undersecretary for Health, 
  Discovery, Education, and Affiliate Networks, Veterans Health 
  Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs............    12

        Accompanied by:

    Dr. Matthew Miller, Executive Director, Office of Suicide 
        Prevention, Veterans Health Administration, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

    Dr. Ajit Pai, Executive Director, Office of Rehabilitation 
        and Prosthetic Services, Veterans Health Administration, 
        U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

    Dr. Ryan Heiman, Acting Director, Member Services, Veterans 
        Health Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans 
        Affairs

                                Panel II

Mr. Brian Dempsey, Director of Government Relations, Wounded 
  Warrior Project................................................    20

Ms. Missy Meyer, Director of Community Integration, America's 
  Warrior Partnership............................................    22

Mr. Clark Pennington, Chief Operating Officer, The Independence 
  Fund...........................................................    24

Mr. Jon Retzer, Deputy National Legislative Director, Disabled 
  American Veterans..............................................    26

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Dr. Carolyn Clancy Prepared Statement............................    35
Mr. Brian Dempsey Prepared Statement.............................    59
Ms. Missy Meyer Prepared Statement...............................    72
Mr. Clark Pennington Prepared Statement..........................    74
Mr. Jon Retzer Prepared Statement................................    77

                       Statements For The Record

U.S. Office of Government Ethics Prepared Statement..............    83
American Federation of Government Employees, AFL-CIO Prepared 
  Statement......................................................    85
American Psychological Association, Association of VA 
  Psychologist Leaders, Association of VA Social Workers, 
  National Association of Veterans Affairs Physicians and 
  Dentists, Nurses Organization of Veterans Affairs, Veterans 
  Healthcare Policy Institute Prepared Statement.................    87
The Honorable Jason Crow, U.S. House of Representatives, (CO-06) 
  Prepared Statement.............................................    95
National Association of State Veterans Homes Prepared Statement..    96








 
                          LEGISLATIVE HEARING

                              ----------                              


                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 11, 2024

                    Subcommittee on Health,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mariannette 
Miller-Meek [chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Miller-Meek, Radewagen, Bergman, 
Murphy, Van Orden, Luttrell, Kiggans, Brownley, Levin, 
Budzinski, and Landsman.

   OPENING STATEMENT OF MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, CHAIRWOMAN

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I agree with yesterday's hearing that 
members need to be given a map and a watch to be on time to 
hearings. That includes both sides of the aisle. It is not 
directed to one or the other.
    We welcome all members of the subcommittee and our 
witnesses. We look forward to a very productive session today 
on some impactful veterans legislation.
    Before we begin, however, I would like to take a moment to 
remember the nearly 3,000 American lives that were lost 23 
years ago today. Please join me in a moment of silence for the 
9/11 victims and their families. Thank you.
    Today, we will be discussing 16 bills. Each bill would 
attempt to improve the delivery of healthcare to the men and 
women who have served. These bills include creative solutions 
that would seek to address difficult problems, including a 
pilot program to fill vacant shifts, reforms to ensure that the 
U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) has the authority to 
prescribe medicine, and a study which looks at the mental 
health crisis that affects our veteran community.
    I would now like to take a moment to discuss my bills, H.R. 
9438, the No Wrong Door for Veterans Act and H.R. 9478, 
Veterans Sports Act. H.R. 9438 would seek to reauthorize an 
incredibly important VA mental health program, the Staff 
Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program.
    The Fox Grant Program is a successful grant program that 
enables the VA to provide grant funding to community-based 
organizations to help organizations in communities where 
veterans live expand the reach of their mental health efforts.
    My bill would reauthorize the Fox Grant Program for an 
additional 3 years until 2028. It would also make changes to 
the administration of the program including improvements to 
coordination of care between VA providers and grantees and the 
standardization of the veteran intake process.
    This program is another avenue for veterans to receive 
brain health support. There should be no wrong door when it 
comes to seeking brain health, and I am proud to have 
introduced this bill to continue and improve this amazing 
program.
    My second bill is H.R. 9478, the Veterans Sports Act. This 
legislation would provide access to adaptive limbs for amputee 
veterans by ensuring that they are able to have the highest 
quality of life that we can provide them.
    This bill would amend existing law to ensure the 
availability of adaptive sports and recreation prostheses limbs 
by recognizing them as medically necessary for veterans living 
with limb loss.
    I think it is critical that we ensure that disabled 
veterans have the equipment and tools they need to live active 
lifestyles as they please in order to allow them to live the 
fullest and make them whole.
    I am proud to introduce these bills and look forward to 
discussing the many others on our agenda.
    I want to again thank our witnesses for being here today 
and those organizations that submitted statements for the 
record. It is a privilege to collaborate on crafting impactful 
legislation for our veterans and to address some critical 
issues facing them.
    I now yield to Representative Cherfilus-McCormick for her 
opening remarks.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, ACTING RANKING 
                             MEMBER

    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Chairwoman Miller-
Meeks.
    Thank you to our witnesses for being here today to discuss 
these bills. I am sitting in for Ranking Member Brownley who, 
unfortunately, could not be here today. I know she is 
disappointed to not be here, especially not to be able to speak 
about her bill, the Have You Served Act, which is on the agenda 
for today.
    I will take the opportunity to recognize her for her work 
on this issue. So often just asking the question have you 
served could make a huge difference in recognizing and 
supporting veterans.
    Helping service providers learn how to appropriately talk 
about veteran status and where to connect them to resources 
will change lives. Representative Brownley's bill will create 
grants to establish ask the question campaign training 
programs, establish key matrices for the training and improving 
outreach about the efforts. I want to thank her for leading 
this effort.
    We will also consider several other bills today sponsored 
by my Democratic colleagues which will increase access to VA 
healthcare, especially for rural veterans. This includes the 
Rural Veterans Transportation to Care Act, which will expand 
the VA's very popular highly rural transportation grant program 
and expand the program to serve veterans in rural in addition 
to highly rural communities.
    It also includes the New Mexico Rural Veterans' Healthcare 
Access Act, which would adjust Veterans Integrated Service 
Network (VISN) lines to ensure veterans in New Mexico can 
easily receive travel reimbursement when accessing care at the 
nearest VA medical facility to them.
    I am also glad we are considering the Veterans Sentinel Act 
legislation to address suicides that occur on VA campuses. 
While these events are rare, they are tragic and devastating 
for VA and to all of the veterans' community.
    Representative Crow's bill would create a task force to 
identify root causes for these events and analyze ways to stop 
further events from happening.
    Finally, we will consider a bill to give co-pay parity to 
veterans that identify as Native Hawaiians and strengthen VA 
coordination with the Native Hawaiians' health care system.
    However, I am disheartened to see so many bills from my 
Republican counterparts on the agenda that focus on diverting 
more care out of VA. We know that VA provides the best care and 
that more often than not veterans want to receive their care 
from the VA.
    Some of these bills, like the Veterans Mental Health Access 
Act and the No Wrong Door for Veterans Act, propose to send 
more money to outside entities creating grant funding giveaways 
with no or very few strings attached.
    These bills lack vital matrices to monitor the performance 
of grantees and ensure these programs are meeting their 
intended purposes.
    I look forward to hearing from our VA witnesses about the 
department's view on all these bills on today's agenda and how 
we can work together to ensure VA can serve veterans to the 
best of their ability.
    I am also looking forward to hearing from our Veterans 
Service Organization (VSO) partners about what these bills 
would mean for their members.
    With that, Madam Chairwoman, I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Cherfilus-
McCormick.
    We have a full agenda today so I will be holding everyone 
to 3 minutes per bill to get through in a timely manner.
    This morning we are joined by several of our colleagues who 
will testify on their bills. We are appreciative of their work 
in serving our Nation's veterans.
    With that, I ask unanimous consent that all non-committee 
members be waived on to speak on their bills from the dais. 
Hearing no objections, we will move forward.
    I now recognize Representative Luttrell. You are now 
recognized for 3 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF MORGAN LUTTRELL

    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. The Service Dogs 
Assisting Veterans Act, or the SAVES Act, would require the 
secretary to establish a 5-year pilot program that would award 
competitive grants to nonprofit organizations providing service 
dogs to the eligible veterans.
    This bill would ensure that veterans receiving service dogs 
through these grants are not charged fees and are provided with 
a veterinarian insurance policy for their service dogs. The 
bill would also establish a process for granting service dogs 
to veterans with mental health conditions and would authorize 
the secretary to allocate up to $10 million annually for the 
program.
    This builds upon previous legislation, the Puppies 
Assisting Wounded Service Members, or PAWS, for Veterans 
Therapy Act, Public Law 117-37, which expanded efforts to 
support veterans with Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and 
other service-related injuries with service dogs.
    The VA refers veterans to nonprofit organizations to 
receive these service dogs, but the process can often be 
lengthy and with veterans waiting up to 1 to 3 years, and the 
availability of the of the dogs is extremely limited.
    The SAVES Act aims to address these limitations and wait 
times by expanding the avenues that veterans can receive 
service dogs from VA to nonprofit organizations. Generally, 
nonprofit organizations are expected to provide these service 
dogs quicker than VA due to there being less bureaucracy.
    This legislation also looks at addressing the needs of our 
veterans. Amid that is why it expands the scope of the 
disabilities covered for the veterans who qualify for service 
dogs and will allow veterans who suffer from blindness, visual, 
or mobility impairments, seizures, post-traumatic stress 
disorder, and traumatic brain injuries to qualify as well.
    Veterans face a wide range of issues and there is never a 
one-size-fits-all approach. I am pleased to introduce this 
piece of legislation or this bill and it is bipartisan. It does 
have bipartisan support. Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Luttrell.
    Typically, we would go to the Democrat. The Democrat up to 
speak next is not here so we are going to go to Representative 
Franklin. Representative Franklin, I now recognize you for 3 
minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF SCOTT FRANKLIN

    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Madam Chairman. This is a solemn 
morning, as you noted, as we recognize the 23d anniversary of 
the attacks on 9/11. That evil act of cowardice sent many of 
our sons and daughters to foreign soil to defend our Nation.
    Two decades now and trillions of dollars spent, an entire 
generation at this point of our young men and women who 
answered the call to join our armed forces to defend our great 
Nation, many of them have now joined the ranks of veterans who 
served in previous eras.
    It is the duty of this panel, our primary duty I would 
argue, to ensure that these brave Americans receive the best 
care and the benefits they have earned.
    Despite the sacrifices our veterans and their families have 
made, reports indicate they are being cutoff from certain 
services the VA is obligated to provide them.
    Recently, the VA has been pushing more veterans back into 
VA facilities from community care providers without 
consideration of continuity of care when deciding in a 
veteran's best medical interest. This abruptly cuts off 
veterans from longtime treatment plans and providers they 
trust.
    It is difficult for veterans to build rapport with a 
provider or a counselor and then be forced to find a new one, 
creating gaps in care. These gaps can negatively impact all 
aspects of life for veterans and their families.
    It is unconscionable this would be allowed to even happen 
and that this committee would do so. It is something we must 
stop.
    I am concerned by the comments by members of the committee 
that appear to be in direct opposition to community care. The 
same comments advocate shrinking the funding and size of the 
program.
    The rationale often centers around the VA's recent efforts 
to increase convenience with new clinics and improve care by 
recruiting new specialists. I applaud those efforts, including 
the opening of a fantastic new clinic in my hometown of 
Lakeland, Florida.
    I consider those efforts to be table stakes. The VA can 
always be striving to improve. Excellent care at VA facilities 
and providing flexibility to veterans are not opposing 
missions. VA must continue to improve care and expand 
convenience for our veterans. They deserve nothing less.
    I believe, and I know many of my colleagues here agree, 
veterans should be able to choose the care that works best for 
them, whether that is inside the VA or out, especially for 
those who are already using community care.
    My bill, the Ensuring Continuity in Veterans Health Act, 
protects veterans who have chosen to utilize community care. It 
will also provide clarity for veterans concerned that they will 
lose their provider.
    Specifically, this requires the VA to consider continuity 
of care in determining best medical interest of a veteran. This 
will provide disruption in care for veterans already receiving 
services from community care providers. Most importantly, it 
will allow veterans to continue choosing the most convenient 
care for them.
    I would like to thank the chairman for supporting this 
legislation, and I look forward to working with the committee 
to mark up this bill in the coming days. I urge we take it to 
the House floor for a vote.
    Thank you, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Franklin.
    I now recognize Representative Vasquez for 3 minutes.

                  STATEMENT OF GABRIEL VASQUEZ

    Mr. Vasquez. Thank you, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks and Ranking 
Member Brownley, for allowing me to testify today in support of 
my bill, the New Mexico Rural Veterans Healthcare Access Act.
    Traveling across my district can take up to 9 hours from 
Jal, New Mexico to Zuni Pueblo. That means that nearly 50,000 
veterans who call New Mexico's Second District home have more 
difficulty accessing critical resources, including VA 
healthcare, which is largely contained in two Veteran 
Integrated Service Networks.
    However, in southern New Mexico, the lines do not work and 
veterans suffer. This problem has been occurring for over a 
decade. In fact, I started this fight as a staffer before I 
became a Member of Congress.
    The current lines force veterans in Otero and Edi Counties 
to travel more than 4 hours to Albuquerque instead of nearby El 
Paso less than an hour away for healthcare. Traveling long 
distances for basic care referrals and other appointments 
creates an incredible hardship for those who served our 
country.
    It is not just long distances. It is the dignity of care 
and extended waiting times. The VA will only provide a mileage 
reimbursement to veterans who seek service within their VISN 
lines.
    A veteran in Carlsbad is faced with an unjust choice. Get 
reimbursed for a 9-hour trip to their designated VA hospital in 
Albuquerque or bear the cost themselves for a 4-hour trip to El 
Paso.
    Our veterans opt for the closest VA but are not receiving 
any mileage reimbursement for going outside their VISN lines, 
defeating the purpose of this system.
    I recently met with both the directors of the Albuquerque 
and El Paso VA healthcare systems and brought the ranking 
member of the Veterans Affair Committee to listen directly to 
veterans about the hardships that they face. Everybody in the 
room agreed that the line should be changed.
    As legislators, we cannot leave our rural veterans behind. 
The Veteran Integrated Service Networks were created to make 
sure veterans are organized into a system where they have 
access to what they need, but for the rural veterans in my 
district in southern New Mexico that benefit simply does not 
exist.
    My bill, the New Mexico Rural Veteran Healthcare Access 
Act, would move Edi and Otero Counties in my district into 
Veteran Integrated Service Line 18. This change would give 
these veterans closer access to specialty care and mileage 
reimbursement for the VA hospital trips that they are already 
making.
    To the veterans of New Mexico's Second congressional 
District, know that I am here fighting for you. Whether you are 
in Edi or Otero County, Dona Ana or Bernalillo, you all deserve 
equal access to the benefits that you deserve.
    I urge support for my legislation in this committee, and I 
yield back. Thank you, Mrs. Chairwoman.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Vasquez.
    I now recognize Representative Self for 3 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF KEITH SELF

    Mr. Self. Thank you, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks. I am honored 
to introduce H.R. 9485, the Enhancing Faith-Based Support for 
Veterans Act of 2024. This important legislation addresses a 
crucial gap in the spiritual care provided to our veterans.
    Under this bill, VA chaplains would be required to offer 
veterans the option to order their name and contact information 
to be shared with non-VA religious or faith-based organizations 
of their choice. In other words, this option is at the sole 
discretion of the veteran.
    This step will ensure that veterans have access to the 
spiritual care they need and want, regardless of their faith.
    This issue was brought to our attention by a dedicated Army 
veteran who also serves as a Catholic Eucharistic Minister in 
the Dallas Diocese. He learned of the problem through a 
parishioner who had been bringing Catholic communion to the Sam 
Rayburn Memorial Veterans Center and Bonham VA Clinic for many 
years.
    However, 2 years ago, they were informed that due to a 
change in policy access to VA patients had been revoked. H.R. 
9485 aims to fix these issues by allowing veterans to complete 
a privacy release form, similar to what all of our constituents 
have to fill out before opening casework.
    This will enable the VA to connect them with chaplains or 
religious leaders who can offer the specific spiritual support 
they need and want. By passing this bill no veteran would be 
denied the spiritual care they require due to bureaucratic red 
tape.
    I am grateful to my constituent who brought this issue to 
light, and I look forward to working with my colleagues to 
advance this bill through Congress. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Representative Self.
    I now recognize Representative Gluesenkamp Perez for 3 
minutes.

              STATEMENT OF MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ

    Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez. Thank you to the chairwoman and 
ranking member for the opportunity to testify today about my 
bill, Rural Veterans Transportation to Care Act.
    Almost exactly 1 year ago today I heard from one of my 
counties in my district that they had just received notice from 
the VA that they were no longer eligible for the VA highly 
rural transportation grant program.
    The county had been operating a van for the purposes of 
transporting veterans to the Department of Veterans Affairs 
facilities to receive medical care free of charge since 2014.
    Over the years, this service has proven essential to 
veterans seeking essential care to things like chemotherapy and 
critical surgeries and treatment for heart conditions.
    In 2022 alone, the van made approximately 300 trips and 
transported between 40 and 60 veterans. However, due to the 
definition of eligibility for these grants as set in statute, 
as fewer than seven residents per square mile Skamania County 
learned that due to new Census data and migration changes that 
happened during the pandemic, that our rural county was no 
longer considered rural enough.
    Now we are at 7.15 residents per square mile. With just 1 
week's notice we lost transportation funding.
    I sent a letter to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs 
McDonough in October urging the VA to fill transportation gaps 
for rural veterans and work with Congress to redefine highly 
rural.
    In a reply earlier this year the department expressed 
support for the provision outlined in Rural Transportation to 
Care Act. The bipartisan bill would improve how VA measures 
rurality, helping more veterans living in rural areas get 
transportation to VA or VA-authorized healthcare facilities.
    The bill would also expand eligibility to both rural and 
highly rural counties, as well as tribal organizations.
    Last, the legislation would increase the maximum funding 
amount so transportation services could keep pace with 
inflation.
    It is our responsibility to our Nation's heroes to ensure 
that our Nation's heroes are well supported after returning 
from home and can access the benefits they have earned and 
deserve. Just last week, I was visiting with veterans in 
Pacific County about how vital these kinds of transportation 
services are, and they are literally life or death.
    People who have been waiting for appointments for 18 months 
can lose an appointment if they are just 10 minutes late or 15 
minutes late to their appointment, setting them back 10 months 
to care.
    Access to professional, reliable transportation is critical 
to deliver lifesaving care to our veterans. As veterans across 
my district and the country face dramatic reductions in 
lifesaving services, it is our duty to make sure they are not 
left behind.
    This bipartisan bill will not only restore critical 
healthcare transportation services for Skamania County veterans 
but will also newly expanded eligibility to make sure more 
veterans in rural areas around the country have a safe and 
reliable way to get to their appointments and receive the care 
they deserve.
    I thank you again for the opportunity to testify on this 
bill and I look forward to continuing to work on getting this 
across the finish line.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Ms. Gluesenkamp 
Perez.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Womack for 3 
minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF STEVE WOMACK

    Mr. Womack. I thank the Chairwoman Miller-Meeks and Ranking 
Member Brownley, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. 
I want to thank you for considering my bill, H.R. 9324, the 
Protecting Veteran Access to Telemedicine Services Act of 2024.
    I would also like to express my sincere gratitude for 
allowing me to speak in support of this legislation today. This 
bill seeks to ensure that our Nation's veterans, whether they 
reside in bustling urban centers or in the most remote areas of 
our country, have uninterrupted access to the healthcare 
services they need and deserve.
    As you are aware, the Ryan Hate Online Pharmacy Consumer 
Protection Act was enacted in 2008 to regulate the prescription 
of controlled substances via telemedicine in response to the 
rise in online pharmacies and the potential for misuse.
    This law plays an important role safeguarding public 
health, but also has not been updated to reflect the 
differences between 2024 compared to 2008 and does not 
acknowledge the difference between VA and general civilian 
online pharmacies.
    During the COVID-19 pandemic, requirements under the Ryan 
Hate Act for a patient to meet with a practitioner in person 
for the prescription of a controlled substance were temporarily 
waived.
    The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) and U.S. 
Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced the 
temporary extension of these flexibilities, but that extension 
expires at the end of this year. My bill, the Protecting 
Veteran Access to Telemedicine Services Act of 2024, would 
permanently extend this exemption to allow healthcare 
professionals employed by the VA to prescribe medically 
necessary controlled substances to veterans via telemedicine 
under certain conditions.
    This exemption has been a lifeline for our Nation's 
veterans and without a permanent exemption, many veterans could 
see their access to vital healthcare services severely 
restricted.
    For our veterans in urban areas, the expiration of this 
exemption would mean longer wait times for in-person 
appointments, further straining an already burdened VA 
healthcare system.
    The situation is even more critical for veterans in rural 
areas. These veterans face unique challenges, including 
geographical isolation and limited access to healthcare 
providers. The Ryan Hate Act exemption has enabled them to 
receive care from VA providers and specialists who may be 
hundreds of miles away without the need for costly and time-
consuming travel.
    The continuation of this exemption is not just a matter of 
convenience. It is a matter of necessity. It ensures that 
veterans in every corner of this country have equal access to 
the care they so desperately need and they deserve.
    It is an honor to speak in support of my legislation today. 
I urge my colleagues on this subcommittee to support the bill 
and to act swiftly in passing this legislation.
    Our Nation's veterans have sacrificed so much for our 
freedom. It is our duty to ensure they receive the care they 
have earned in a manner that meets their needs in today's 
world.
    With that, Madam Chairwoman, I yield back my time.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Representative 
Womack.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Tokuda for 3 
minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF JILL TOKUDA

    Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, 
Representative Cherfilus-McCormick, and distinguished members 
of the Health Subcommittee, thank you for including my bill, 
H.R. 8562, the Parity for Native Hawaiian Veterans Act, in 
today's legislative hearing and for the opportunity to speak in 
support of this important bill.
    In the United States there are approximately 614,600 Native 
Hawaiian veterans, including nearly 275,000 in my home State of 
Hawaii. According to a May 2022 report by the Veterans Health 
Administration (VHA), Native Hawaiian and other Pacific 
Islander veterans aged 45 and older experienced significantly 
less access to checkups and routine care than their white 
counterparts.
    The report concluded that ``work is needed to improve the 
veteran experience of care among
    [Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islander] veterans'' and 
better information could be ``helpful in understanding and 
addressing their disparities.''
    They served and sacrificed the same as their fellow 
veterans, yet our country is failing to meet our obligations to 
them. More must be done to eliminate needless barriers to care 
for our Native Hawaiian veterans.
    That is why I have introduced the Parity for Native 
Hawaiian Veterans Act to ensure Native Hawaiian veterans can 
access health care services in a similar manner as their 
American Indian and Alaska Native counterparts.
    To fulfill the Federal Government's trust responsibility to 
the Native Hawaiian community it is vital that Native Hawaiian 
veterans be treated the same as other Native American veterans 
and explicitly included in Federal programs and policies 
supporting other Native veteran populations.
    Currently, the Indian Health Service (IHS), Tribal health 
programs, and IHS-funded urban Indian organizations can seek 
direct reimbursement from the VA for services rendered to 
eligible American Indian and Alaska Native veterans.
    The Parity for Native Hawaiian Veterans Act would codify 
the same reimbursement relationship between VA and the Native 
Hawaiian health care systems that have been authorized by 
Congress to provide comprehensive health promotion and disease 
prevention services, as well as primary health services to our 
Native Hawaiians.
    With more locations near to where Hawaiians live, this is 
about meeting our veterans where they are at and greatly 
increasing their access to care.
    My bill does three things. It updates the definition of 
Native Hawaiian in statutes governing veterans' care and 
benefits. It eliminates co-pays for qualified Native Hawaiian 
veterans. It allows the VA to directly reimburse the Native 
Hawaiian health care systems for care provided to Native 
Hawaiian veterans.
    This bill was developed in consultation with Papa Ola 
Lokahi, which has been authorized by Congress to coordinate and 
assist healthcare programs and services provided to Native 
Hawaiians. The bill also incorporates technical assistance from 
VA and past work by the Office of Hawaiian Affairs.
    Ultimately, the Parity for Native Hawaiian Veterans Act is 
about improving healthcare access and affordability for Native 
Hawaiian veterans and ensuring all veterans are provided the 
care they need and are entitled to as a result of their service 
to our country.
    I look forward to working with members of this committee 
and Senator Hirono, who has introduced identical legislation in 
the Senate, to advance this measure forward in Congress. Mahalo 
and I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Representative 
Tokuda.
    The chair now recognizes Representative Chavez-DeRemer for 
3 minutes.

                STATEMENT OF LORI CHAVEZ-DEREMER

    Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks and Vice Chair 
Cherfilus-McCormick, thank you for inviting me today to speak 
on behalf of my legislation, the VA Geriatrics and Gerontology 
Advisory Committee Expansion Act.
    This bill is simple. It would include a representative of 
the National Association of State Veterans Homes (NASVH) on the 
Department of Veterans Affairs Geriatrics and Gerontology 
Advisory Committee.
    NASVH has been great partners and supporters of this 
legislation. Their goal as an all-volunteer organization is to 
promote and enhance the quality of care and life for veterans 
and families in their network of homes through education, 
networking, and advocacy.
    There are 169 VA-recognized State Veterans Homes across the 
Nation, including two in Oregon, one in The Dalles, and one in 
my district in Lebanon, Oregon.
    The Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory Committee was 
authorized in 1991. Its primary role is to advise the VA on 
geriatric research education and assess the demand for long-
term veteran care and the VA's ability to provide for its plan 
to meet these geriatric services.
    A representative from NASVH having full representation on 
the committee would be able to bring new, unique, and tested 
clinical expertise to strengthen this mission. With over 8 
million living veterans who are aged 65 and older, many still 
from our greatest generation, there is an everlasting need to 
strengthen and expand long-term care options for our veterans.
    The amount of nursing home care offered by the VA is 
currently not meeting the overall number of eligible veterans. 
NASVH will be able to offer nursing home care, experience 
combined with the ability to stretch adequate resources and 
serve as many veterans as possible, including expanding care to 
veterans who can be serviced in their own communities and 
homes.
    With a nationwide network, NASVH has the capabilities to 
understand the changing demographics, needs, and preferences of 
veterans in all areas of the country. I believe State Veterans 
Homes have the full capability to advise the VA on the long 
care options, and I also believe the VA must also make a long-
term commitment the State Veterans Homes.
    I have appreciated the ongoing support of Chairman Bost and 
the committee here today and thank them for their steadfast 
support and leadership in aiding our Nation's veterans.
    They were kind enough to visit my district back in June to 
tour the Portland VA Medical Center and also help me hosting a 
listening session in Bend, Oregon, where we heard directly from 
local veteran constituents on the issues they face in receiving 
the care they deserve.
    One of the main issues we discussed was long-term and 
community care for the aging veterans. Further, I echoed those 
concerns of Oregonian veterans in writing to Secretary 
McDonough asking the department to respond to a series of 
questions that were raised during that listening session by 
July 31. We have yet to receive that response from the VA.
    I urge Secretary McDonough to respond to these questions 
quickly because they are questions not coming from me. They are 
questions from our veterans, the very ones he was appointed to 
and confirmed to serve.
    Again, I want to thank my colleagues on both sides of the 
dais for their consideration of this legislation, and I urge 
their support. Passing the VA Geriatrics and Gerontology 
Advisory Committee Expansion Act will be a clear win for the 
States Veterans Homes, network, and for our Nation's aging 
veterans.
    With that, Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Representative 
Chavez-DeRemer.
    As is our practice, we will forgo a round of questioning 
for those members waiving on to present their bills. They have 
excused themselves or they may now be excused.
    I now invite our first panel to the table. Joining us today 
from the Department of Veterans Affairs is Dr. Carolyn Clancy, 
assistant under secretary for Health, Discovery, Education, and 
Affiliate Networks, Veterans Health Administration.
    She is accompanied by Dr. Matthew Miller, executive 
director, Office of Suicide Prevention, Veterans Health 
Administration, Dr. Ajit Pai, executive director, Office of 
Rehabilitation and Prosthetic Services, Veterans Health 
Administration, and Mr. Ryan Heiman, acting director, Member 
Services, Veterans Health Administration.
    Dr. Clancy, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to present 
the department's testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF CAROLYN CLANCY

    Dr. Clancy. Well, good morning, Chairwoman Miller-Meeks and 
acting Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick, and members of the 
subcommittee. Thank you for the invitation to present our views 
on several bills that would affect VA programs and services.
    I am not sure if we have name tags so we will just point 
out Dr. Matthew Miller, Dr. Ajit Pai, and Mr. Ryan Heiman, who 
are with me here today.
    Today's date, as noted by you earlier, Madam Chair, holds 
profound significance in our Nation's history and for VA. 
Twenty-three years ago our Nation was under attack, and in the 
aftermath many brave Americans honorably answered the call to 
serve, creating a new generation veterans, each with unique 
challenges and healthcare needs for nearly 2 decades of 
conflict.
    Our solemn duty is to ensure that all veterans receive the 
exceptional care and respect they deserve. The sacrifices and 
those of their families underpin our unwavering commitment to 
VA's noble mission.
    While we are prepared to discuss all proposed legislation, 
I will highlight a few bills in these opening remarks. The No 
Wrong Door for Veterans Act proposes changes to VA's Staff 
Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program.
    Key provisions extend this program's duration, modify the 
definition of emergency treatment, and require baseline mental 
health screening for grantees using the Columbia-Suicide 
Severity Rating Scale, also known as the C-SSRS. The bill also 
requires annual briefings between grantees and VA Medical 
Center personnel.
    We support the bill's intent but have concerns. We are 
opposed to codifying C-SSRS use as this could prevent adapting 
more effective future tools.
    Additionally, we recommend extending the pilot to allow the 
program to run a full 8-year period and also recommend 
increasing authorized appropriations to reflect the extended 
program duration and allow nationwide scaling.
    Our teams are prepared to collaborate with your offices to 
incorporate these recommendations and others noted in the 
written statement.
    Next, H.R. 6291, Have You Served Act, provides a grant 
program encouraging human services professionals. State and 
local governments. and community providers to inquire about 
military service.
    This bill would authorize VA to make up to 25 grants 
annually not exceeding $200,000, each to eligible entities for 
developing or expanding ask the question campaigns. These 
campaigns are crucial to identifying and supporting veterans in 
various community settings.
    We support the bill's intent but recommend technical and 
clarifying edits for successful implementation, including 
expanding the scope of eligibility and supported services and 
other amendments would just be needed to provide VA with some 
flexibility in program administration.
    With respect to H.R. 6330, the Veterans' Sentinel Act, 
Section 2(a) would require VA to establish a pilot program for 
a working group to collect and analyze data regarding on-campus 
suicides and attempted suicides.
    We support this section but recommend technical edits to 
ensure optimal use of resources for preventing veteran suicide.
    We recommend that Congress avoid legislating a specific 
methodology or evaluation approach, allowing VA the flexibility 
to determine the best strategies and apply innovative solutions 
to address this critical issue. As written, we anticipate 
significant implementation costs.
    Section 2(b) would require VA to annually evaluate 
statistical trends of suicides and attempted suicides by 
veterans that occur on VA property and determine 
recommendations for prevention, and we support this section, 
recognizing the need for timely and useful surveillance efforts 
to end veteran suicides.
    We defer to the Comptroller General regarding Section 2(c).
    Finally, we appreciate the committee's interest in two 
bills resembling legislative proposals in fiscal years 2024 and 
2025 Presidential budgets, H.R. 7504 and H.R. 9324, which would 
both make important progress in reducing barriers 
disproportionately affecting rural and otherwise underserved 
veterans.
    We support both bills, however, several technical and 
clarifying edits technically are needed to fully address the 
intended problems.
    Thank you for your ongoing support of programs supporting 
our Nation's veterans. Your dedication has improved the lives 
of those who have served our country, and we look forward to 
working together with you to develop innovative solutions and 
develop emerging challenges to meet veterans' evolving needs. 
Your partnership is absolutely invaluable.
    Madam Chair, Ranking Member, this concludes my statement 
and we are happy to answer questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Carolyn Clancy Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Dr. Clancy. 
Typically I will reserve my questions until the end so that 
other members can go prior to me, so Representative Cherfilus-
McCormick, I now recognize you for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Dr. Clancy, in your testimony you suggest that 
Representative Brownley's bill be modified to provide greater 
clarity in terms of how the grant program would be administered 
to include the application process, the award of grants, and 
requirements for applications.
    Could you elaborate on this? What kind of requirements for 
applicants would be most helpful to ensure grants are awarded 
to appropriate entities?
    Dr. Miller. Thank you for the question. As we have 
indicated, we fully support the spirit and the intention of the 
Have You Served as to the question of legislation.
    This is in direct reinforcement of Governor's Challenge 
goal number one, which is to better identify veteran service 
members, family members in the community, and in turn, connect 
them to care.
    I think the increased clarity that is requested around the 
application process, applicant requirements, awarding of 
grants, and use of grant funds can relatively easily and in a 
straightforward manner be worked through within the markup 
process. Our team stands by ready to offer suggestions therein.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you.
    My next question is for Dr. Clancy, but I guess you are 
directed to who can best answer it. As written, Representative 
Brownley's Have You Served Act is pretty deferential to the 
secretary on the topic of what VA resource grantees should 
connect veterans to.
    In your written testimony, you recommend that the bill be 
amended to be more specific about the array of VA services and 
benefits to which grantees should connect with veterans. Can 
you expand on how you believe those services should be 
identified and why more prescriptive language would be helpful 
to VA in ensuring veterans can be connected with those 
programs?
    Dr. Clancy. Great questions, thank you. Also for Dr. 
Miller.
    Dr. Miller. I think that that is our--I think it is a 
really good question. It is always a fine line between writing 
this in a way that is broad versus overly prescriptive to find 
the right balance and mix.
    I think the right subject matter expertise teams between 
the Veteran Experience Office and our Partnerships Office would 
happily sit down and talk about the specifics to strike that 
balance in a way that most fully supports the spirit and the 
intention of this bill.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. I think this question 
is going to be for you also, Dr. Miller. I appreciate the VA's 
testimony on the Have You Served Act and the recommendation 
that the scope of eligible entities that can apply for these 
grants to be expanded.
    Can you speak to some of the work that the community 
partnership in the VA, in the Vet Resource Community Network 
and the VHA National Center for Healthcare Advancement and 
Partnership that this bill might be able to help and support it 
becoming law?
    Dr. Miller. This bill as it is currently written speaks 
very directly and I must say, from my perspective, I appreciate 
it as such to the efforts being conducted through the 
Governor's Challenge. It highlights efforts that eight states 
and one U.S. territory are currently engaged in with ask the 
question and seeks to expand those efforts.
    In the spirit of expansion, it also looks at and offers to 
look at other partnerships, such as those that are engaged and 
structured through the Veterans Experience Office (VEO) and 
through the National Center for Healthcare Advancement and 
Partnerships (HAP). It is opening the door to other 
partnerships beyond Governor's Challenge and drawing them in.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, I have a quick question. I 
wanted to shift toward Veterans Sentinel Act. Dr. Miller. I was 
glad to learn from your testimony that VA established an 
interagency workgroup to address the U.S. Government 
Accountability Office's (GAO) recommendations regarding on-
campus suicides.
    Can you share what the VA's existing interagency workgroup 
has done to improve VA's response to on-campus suicide, 
particularly in improving processes?
    How long does VA intend to continue convening the working 
group and would codify the working group help ensure this work 
continues?
    Dr. Miller. Three improvements stand out to me to offer to 
you in response to your question. Improvement number one from 
the interagency workgroup is we have improved the process of 
the informational briefing system such that we have 
standardized the process across VHA, Veterans Benefits 
Administration (VBA), and National Cemetery Administration 
(NCA) so that standardized information is included.
    Number two, we have included in the process very specific 
checkpoints for asking was an Root Cause Analysis (RCA) 
conducted? Was a peer review conducted? Creating hard stops 
with those questions.
    Three, we have addressed direct needs that have been 
identified, parking lot signs being one. We in Fiscal Year 2023 
provided parking lot signs to 100 percent of VA facilities. In 
Fiscal Year 2024 we are offering 7,000 additional parking lot 
signs with the Veterans Crisis Line (VCL) number and 988 
updates.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much.
    The chair now recognizes herself for 5 minutes. Dr. Clancy, 
the VA's testimony request for moving the statutory cap on Fox 
Grant amounts, VA has not properly managed grant funds within 
the first 2 years of the program, given that some organizations 
are receiving the full grant the amount and serving less than 
20 veterans a year.
    How do you justify removing the cap when the VA is not 
properly overseeing these funds?
    Dr. Miller. I am happy to take that question, ma'am. As the 
program that administers the Staff Sergeant Gordon Parker Fox 
Grant Program, I appreciate your question. I thank you for it.
    The request to adjust the cap is in response to adjustments 
to something we all have been talking about, inflation so that 
the awards as it continues are reinforcing of current costs and 
adjust to current costs.
    I think panel two members noted the advantage of this as 
well within their written statements.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you.
    Dr. Clancy, given the significant, and I realize that you 
may refer this, given the significant physical and mental 
health benefits of adaptive prostheses and terminal devices for 
sports and recreational activities, why does the VA not support 
including these devices in the definition of medical services 
under Title 38?
    Dr. Clancy. This is Dr. Pai, who is the expert here. 
Thanks.
    Dr. Pai. Good morning, Chairman. We already include that 
definition of adaptive sports devices in our regulations and 
our clinicians are prescribing them.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. You said you include a definition but 
does that definition mean that they are--it does not mean that 
they are medically necessary?
    Dr. Pai. Correct. With adaptive sports and let me say that 
we really appreciate the intent and the spirit of this 
legislation. These devices are highly complex, right? An 
individual with an amputation has to go through weeks, months, 
sometimes years of rehabilitation and their medical 
comorbidities can impact their ability to utilize that device.
    You know, we just have had the Paris Paralympics and we are 
really proud of our 13 veterans that we support over there. 
What we see is that the rehabilitation for this type of journey 
can take even longer than just that initial phase.
    We really want to make sure that a veteran has consistent 
and constant participation in that activity so that they can 
really benefit with lifelong care.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I just want to make sure I understand 
this correctly. You support the current regulatory framework. 
You are not opposed to these devices being utilized. Is the 
problem with codifying these provisions into law problematic 
because you are afraid veterans will not get the rehabilitative 
services that they need?
    Dr. Pai. No, ma'am. We just feel that the legislation is 
redundant because we are already doing that. We understand that 
there are veterans out there that are having challenges, and we 
really want to make sure that we are hearing from those 
veterans, from those districts, from yourself and other 
Congress persons to make sure that we are caring for those 
veterans.
    I understand that there is a question of will one clinician 
prescribe something that another clinician may not prescribe? 
We are really putting in efforts to educate our clinicians.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Right, thank you, which is why we need to 
have it codified into law. Thank you for that.
    I had another question in regards to the Have You Served 
Act, Dr. Clancy. Rather than setting up a new program, why 
cannot grants be utilized for those entities that are already 
doing this?
    In Iowa we have veteran service organizations in every 
single county. Why could not these grants go to them or why 
could not these grants go to our, you know, our great veteran 
service organizations, such as the Legion, Disabled American 
Veterans (DAV), Wounded Warrior Project, Purple Heart, Veterans 
of Foreign Wars of the United States (VFW).
    There are too many. If I left you I do apologize.
    Why not give the grants to existing organizations who 
already work with veterans and are adept at that?
    Dr. Clancy. I think the short answer is we could certainly 
do that and happy to work with your staff on that. At the same 
time, we would also like to recognize that there are places 
that are beyond the reach even of those phenomenal 
organizations and not preclude their contributions as well.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Oh, interesting. The smallest town in 
Iowa of 200 people has a VSO but thank you so much for that.
    I am seeing no other members. I think this round of 
questioning is over. Our second round of questions, do you have 
a second round of questions?
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Yes.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. The chair now recognizes Representative 
Cherfilus-McCormick.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you.
    I appreciate your testimony points. I appreciate that your 
testimony points out that while on-campus deaths by suicide are 
tragic, they are relatively rare among all suicide deaths.
    However, we have no way of knowing how many veteran deaths 
by suicide may be occurring at community care facilities or 
their root causes.
    Would VA be able to apply the same investigation method in 
this bill, which is the Veterans Sentinel Act, to suicide 
deaths that occur at community care facilities if we were to 
amend the bill to include that?
    Dr. Miller. Happy to answer that question. There have been 
20 on-campus suicides to the present day this fiscal year. 
Adding information from non-VA sites applicable to veterans, I 
think, would be value added to our awareness and surveillance 
process.
    We would be very happy to take a look at what would be 
needed to engage that process with our community partners, yes.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. I want to also talk 
briefly about the New Mexico Rural Veterans' Healthcare Access 
Act.
    Dr. Clancy, in your testimony regarding the New Mexico 
Rural Veterans Healthcare Access Act, you mentioned that VA is 
taking action to address this issue. However, there are 
veterans currently electing to receive their care on the El 
Paso VA healthcare system because it is closer to them.
    However, in VA's eyes they live within the catchment area 
of the Albuquerque VA and are therefore officially assigned to 
that facility and only receiving travel reimbursement when they 
travel to that facility.
    What actions, if any, can the VA take right now to address 
this without requiring VISN lines to be redrawn to ensure that 
veterans who are already doing this are able to get their 
transportation reimbursed?
    Dr. Clancy. Great question. Mr. Heiman.
    Dr. Heiman. Sure. Thank you, Ranking Member Cherfilus-
McCormick and also thank you to Representative Vasquez for his 
testimony earlier.
    We agree with the interest of examining the particular 
lines. That is something that we do not feel we need a law to 
actually accommodate, and as such, we are currently looking 
into everything from referral patterns to transportation 
reimbursement, as you mentioned and as Representative Vasquez 
mentioned.
    We are committed to this and we intend to brief the 
committee as well as local delegations of these efforts in and 
around the end of the calendar year.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Does VA have any plans to adjust 
the VISN boundaries to account for these veterans? If so, what 
is keeping the VA from doing this as expeditiously as possible?
    Dr. Heiman. Thank you for the question. We are actively 
looking into what those boundaries could be, and I think 
certainly redistricting or reapplying the VISN structure and 
boundaries is something that is within our control and 
something that we are actively working at between VISN 22 and 
VISN 17.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Dr. Clancy, I understand that your 
testimony that the SAVES Act, which would create a 5-year pilot 
grant program for nonprofit organizations to provide service 
dogs to veterans, would likely require new staff in a dedicated 
office.
    Do you have an idea of how many additional staffs would be 
needed to administer this program and within which program 
office with VHA would you house this program?
    Dr. Clancy. I will need to take that for the record, 
Congresswoman. I do not think it would be an enormous lift in 
terms of the number of staff, and I am guessing it would 
probably come under prosthetics but I do not want to speak for 
my colleague here. We will get back to you on that. He was 
about to say no.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Dr. Miller, can you explain more 
about why VA is concerned about the No Wrong Door Act codifying 
the Columbia-Suicide Severity Rate Scale as the only tool Fox 
Grant recipients may use to complete baseline mental health 
screenings?
    What is the current practice? What are some other possible 
tools that could be used, and how would limiting the program to 
Columbia-Suicide Severity Rating Scale affect grantees and 
outcomes?
    Dr. Miller. Thank you for the question and let me be clear 
that the Suicide Prevention Program Office supports the 
Columbia as a scale from a validity and reliability perspective 
and sees the value of its role.
    I think our concern can best be summarized in terms of 
codifying it as the tool to use. If a more effective tool 
arises in the next 2 to 3 years we want to be able to flexibly 
adjust to that and our current bylaws allow for that rather 
than an act of Congress, literally, to adjust from the Columbia 
to a different measure.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, Representative 
Cherfilus-McCormick.
    The chair now recognizes Ranking Member Takano for 5 
minutes if he has questions.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chair Miller-Meeks.
    Dr. Miller, we received VA's interim report on the Fox 
Grant Program that included some limited data on the 
effectiveness of the program so far, and we appreciate that VA 
anticipates having additional data in its final report and 
believe these data will help Congress and VA evaluate whether 
the program is working as intended.
    Do you believe that limiting grantees to the Columbia-
Suicide Severity Rating Scale would impair the level of data 
that grantees can collect and therefore limit our ability to 
assess the effectiveness of the program if we reauthorize it?
    Dr. Miller. Thank you for your question, sir, good to see 
you. Yes. We do believe that limiting to the Columbia would 
impact the reliability and the validity of outcome evaluation 
of the Fox Program.
    With that said, we do not necessarily read in the 
legislation that outcome data is restricted to the Columbia 
necessarily as there are other measures and broader measures of 
well-being, mental health, financial status that will also be 
included in the outcome measures as part of the Fox Grant 
Program.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. Well, I want to, kind of, switch gears 
here and talk about H.R. 9426 to carry out a pilot program 
under the secretary under which the secretary may fill vacant 
shifts at medical facilities of the Department of Veterans 
Affairs with non-departmental healthcare providers.
    While I appreciate my majority counterpart's intent in 
putting forth a bill that would allow VA to use contractors to 
cover vacant shifts at VA medical facilities, I share VA's 
concern that key aspects of the bill are not clearly defined 
and the implementation would be difficult.
    However, knowing that staffing shortages are often a 
concern for medical centers, I am glad to hear that our VISNs 
are already offering clinical resource hubs to ensure staffing 
needs are met in times of vacancies.
    Can you expand on how that is activated and if it has so 
far been sufficient to address shortages?
    Dr. Clancy. I will give you a couple of examples. The 
notion is if a veteran, for example, is seen at Detroit and by 
a primary care clinician who then believes that that clinician 
needs a specialist but that specialist is not available or they 
do not have the capacity to see that veteran in a timely way at 
that facility, through this clinical resource hub they can 
identify another facility in the network where the veteran 
could get that care.
    This has worked extremely well, as I understand it, in VISN 
23, you know, which is Minnesota, Iowa, South Dakota, and North 
Dakota. It has allowed them to bring much more of the 
cardiology care back into VA.
    Obviously, in areas in all of those states where there are 
not cardiologists everywhere. It also works very well on a 
number of other networks, but that is the intent of it.
    In other words, the VISN is more than just a silent 
overseer, if you will, of multiple freestanding facilities but 
really is leveraging their capability as a system within a 
system, if that makes sense?
    Mr. Takano. Dr. Clancy, are these, in this example you 
gave, would the cardiologist, would that be a VA doctor or 
maybe potentially a contract doctor?
    Dr. Clancy. A VA doctor.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. That is through, so it is called a 
clinical resource hub?
    Dr. Clancy. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. How does VA currently decide how and when to 
activate contracts with temporary help service firms?
    Dr. Clancy. We have put together a new contract, I think a 
year and a half ago, the interim critical staffing program 
where we can hire a whole array of medical, nursing, and other 
healthcare specialties as needed.
    That would be activated by individual facilities. It can 
also activate administrative and managerial support as needed 
as well.
    Mr. Takano. To what extent are these already in use?
    Dr. Clancy. I would have to take that for the record and 
get back to you, sir, because it became live shortly before we 
realized that we needed to be more strategic with hiring and so 
forth.
    Mr. Takano. Madam Chair, I have a couple more just odd 
questions or do you want to just, kind of, stop now for now? 
Okay. All right. All right that is fine. I will yield back.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Takano.
    On behalf of the subcommittee, seeing that no other members 
are here, I wanted to thank all of you for your testimony and 
for joining us here today. You are now excused, and we will 
wait for a moment as the second panel comes to the witness 
table.
    Dr. Clancy. Madam Chair, I had one quick question. 
Representative Tokuda from Hawaii made a point today which 
clarified an issue for us which may require a correction or 
addendum to the written statement. Is that feasible?
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. I think that you can submit that for the 
record.
    Dr. Clancy. Perfect, thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Welcome, everyone, and thank you for your 
participation today. On our second panel we have Mr. Brian 
Dempsey, director of Government Relations for the Wounded 
Warrior Project, Ms. Missy Meyer director of Community 
Integration at America's Warrior Partnership (AWP), Mr. Clark 
Pennington, chief operating officer at the Independence Fund, 
and Mr. Jon Retzer, deputy national legislative director for 
health at Disabled American Veterans.
    Mr. Dempsey, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF BRIAN DEMPSEY

    Mr. Dempsey. Thank you. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking 
Member Takano, and distinguished health subcommittee members, 
thank you for inviting Wounded Warrior Project to testify at 
this morning's hearing to discuss legislation intended to 
improve VA's ability to provide better access to care and 
ensure better health outcomes for our Nation's veterans.
    Honoring and empowering wounded warriors has been at the 
heart of our mission since 2003. Meeting the needs of those who 
volunteered to serve our Nation and protect the freedoms we 
enjoy as Americans is not only a solemn obligation but a 
national priority.
    Our written statement reflects our views on several of the 
bills before you, but for today's hearing on the anniversary of 
the September 11th attacks that led to our founding, I am going 
to focus on legislation that we believe will be most impactful 
on the lives of the post-911 wounded, ill, and injured warriors 
that we serve.
    First, we support H.R. 9438, the No Wrong Door Act, which 
would reauthorize the Staff Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide 
Prevention Grant Program through 2027 and extend an important 
tool for VA to provide upstream suicide prevention services in 
communities around the country.
    We remain hopeful that the Fox Grant Program becomes a 
permanent fixture in VA's public health strategy, however, we 
believe that attention should be given to how service 
eligibility determinations are made and how clinical care can 
be responsibly provided before the program is made permanent.
    To that end, we support adoption of the Columbia protocol 
for baseline mental health screenings, which were used at 
Wounded Warrior Project for the same purpose.
    Second, we support H.R. 9427, legislation that would allow 
VA to provide grants to nonprofit organizations to provide 
outpatient mental health treatment services to veterans. While 
we appreciate the need to keep VA as a coordinator of 
unfragmented clinical care, we believe that embracing grants to 
direct care programs is a commitment most consistent with 
putting the needs of the veteran first, particularly when 
skepticism toward VA in the veteran community is an unfortunate 
reality for some.
    We believe this legislation can be thoughtfully 
incorporated into the No Wrong Door Act so that grants are 
carefully coordinated with other community-based efforts to 
help serve an overarching intent to connect veterans to the 
care and support they need now, but also foster a healthier 
awareness of and trust in the VA services that are available.
    Third, we support draft legislation to include a 
representative of the National Association of State Veterans 
Homes on the Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory Committee of 
the Department of Veterans Affairs.
    VA's long-term support services reached just over a half a 
million veterans last year and 30 percent were under the age of 
65.
    While we do not have figures to definitively state how many 
of these younger veterans served after 9/11, one of Wounded 
Warrior Project's most significant programs, the independence 
program, supports warriors with moderate and severe traumatic 
brain injury symptoms or other debilitating injuries or 
illnesses for whom independent living may be far from assured 
in both the near and long term.
    We need to plan for their futures and the present needs of 
aging veterans is more important than ever. We need to ensure 
that critical stakeholders in VA's long-term support service 
portfolio have a voice in that planning.
    Shifting attention to veterans whose injuries may be more 
evident, we are proud to support H.R. 9478, the Veterans 
Supporting Prosthetics Opportunities and Recreational Therapy 
Act. This bill would raise adaptive prostheses and terminal 
devices for sports and other recreational activities to the 
same level as wheelchairs, artificial limbs, and special 
clothing as far as how VA is prepared to assist veterans on 
their path to a new normal.
    Under current law, VA will not provide adaptive recreation 
equipment to a veteran unless it is part of a medical or 
rehabilitative treatment plan. This legislation would 
effectively remove this barrier between the veteran and the 
support they may need to pursue activities like biking, 
swimming, or weightlifting that can be every bit as beneficial 
to mobility and mental well-being as clinical or guided 
rehabilitative care.
    We are proud to support this legislation because we have 
seen firsthand the positive and life-changing effects of 
adaptive equipment on a veteran's quality of life and mental 
health.
    Last, I would also highlight the needs of post-911 veterans 
with traumatic brain injury as a basis for our support for H.R. 
7504, the Rural Veterans Transportation to Care Act. Traumatic 
brain injuries and related neurocognitive impairment can 
challenge, if not totally eliminate, a veteran's ability to 
travel to and from VA medical appointments. Some may rely on 
caregivers but extensive commutes can add to the stress of 
caring for a loved one.
    Others may rely on public transportation, which can be very 
tedious and time consuming, if it is even available in the 
rural areas where they live. The Rural Veterans Transportation 
to Care Act would expand access to VA's highly rural 
transportation grants to veterans residing in rural areas.
    This VA grant-based program currently only helps veterans 
in highly rural areas travel to VA or VA-authorized health care 
facilities, but there are clearly many more who could benefit 
from this critical service.
    Ladies and gentlemen, it is my distinct honor to be here to 
represent our Nation's wounded warriors and their families. 
Thank you for letting us do our part to keep the promise.
    This concludes my testimony and I look forward to your 
questions. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Brian Dempsey Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Dempsey.
    Ms. Meyer, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF MISSY MEYER

    Ms. Meyer. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Takano 
thank you so much for the privilege of being here today to 
testify. There are two bills that I would like to discuss 
today.
    First, America's Warrior Partnership is in support of H.R. 
9427 introduced by Chairman Bost to carry out the pilot program 
to provide grants to outpatient mental health facilities. The 
more our Nation can expand access to mental health care for 
veterans the better, but it must be done with a holistic 
approach.
    Every veteran is unique. Offering counseling is wonderful. 
Additional choices such as outpatient facilities for mental 
health, access to traumatic brain injury treatments, since it 
is often concurrent with mental health crisis, and post-
traumatic growth training can expand the resources that are 
available.
    The main focus of my testimony today is going to be on the 
No Wrong Door for Veterans Act. AWP is focused on outreach to 
all veterans and as we told the committee last year, the 
original idea of the SSG Fox Grant had a singular goal, find 
veterans in the community that need help and help them.
    To reach that goal, Congress needs to implement reforms 
that specifically bring back outreach as the singular focus, 
streamline the intake into the VA for eligible Fox 
participants, and hold organizations accountable.
    We are thankful for the committee's hard work on this 
program, and we offer a few observations and suggestions. As 
one of 80 grantees we have done a significant amount of 
outreach since Fox inception.
    Currently we have screened 1,917 warriors for the risk of 
suicide using the Columbia-Suicide Severity Rating Scale, or 
the C-SSRS. 370 of those warriors discussed and disclosed some 
level of suicide risk or a previous attempt. That is 19 
percent.
    Ninety-four percent of the warriors that have turned to AWP 
with their thoughts and trusted us with the risk of suicide, 
were not seeking assistance for a mental health-related issue. 
The SSG Fox Program is working. Relationships are being built 
and connections to resources are made.
    The Fox Grant is a success story and asking the question 
works. AWP, the VA, and Congress have all played an integral 
part in saving the lives of these warriors, but there is more 
to do.
    First, we are thankful for the inclusion of language that 
directs briefings for VA employees in regard to the SSG Fox 
Program and ensuring a bi-direction, solid, working 
relationship with local VA staff is essential.
    It is more important than ever that we have education for 
frontline staff at the VAs to understand this program and its 
purpose.
    While the legislation mandates the C-SSRS as the only 
required screening protocol, AWP recommends also adding 
language that would make the additional baseline assessments 
discussed earlier as optional.
    Rarely do veterans in our program complete all five of the 
additional baseline assessments and very rarely do they 
complete them twice as required. The assessments have been 
described as both triggering and redundant by both our staff 
and the warriors that they are being administered to.
    Third, the emergent care section is very helpful. AWP 
recommends adding a section that clearly lays out expectations 
for the program and identifies boundaries for both the VA and 
the grantees.
    The SSG Fox Grant Program is about outreach, however, the 
line has become muddied and expectations can be unclear. To fix 
this it would be helpful to add a section that requires a 
specific program on-ramp for veterans identified as eligible 
and in need of VA care.
    The process does not need to be complex. It does not need 
to be burdensome. It can be done through the 988 crisis line. 
It can be done through local Veterans Affairs Medical Centers 
(VAMC) with expedited care or even a dedicated line for 
grantees to call when we have an eligible participant.
    The key here is expedited. If we are going to ask the 
question we need to have a plan for the answer.
    Fourth is accountability. The Fox Grant Program is working 
and to keep the program successful Congress and the VA must 
hold organizations accountable with verifiable metrics.
    AWP recommends adding a section requiring the VA to develop 
accountability metrics in regard to outreach, screenings, 
eligible participants identified in the course of the program, 
referrals, et cetera and then require regular reports back to 
Congress.
    While accountability and metrics are vital, the data 
collection tool implemented by the VA at the end of 2023 has 
had the opposite of its intended effect. The Fox Grant 
Program's assessments are meant to be anonymous but currently 
the tool requires a Social Security number and a date of birth 
to enter any data into the tool.
    This has caused AWP to go from reporting nearly 100 percent 
of our data to less than 5 percent. AWP has suggested returning 
to the original anonymous participant identification numbers 
instead of requiring our warriors to provide personal health 
information to be in the program.
    Finally, the only limitation AWP has on being more 
successful is funding. If the ceiling on grants was doubled 
tomorrow so would our outreach efforts. For these suggestions, 
please see our written statement that we have submitted.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look 
forward to any questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Missy Meyer Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Ms. Meyer.
    The chair now recognizes Mr. Pennington for 5 minutes.

                 STATEMENT OF CLARK PENNINGTON

    Mr. Pennington. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member 
Takano, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, on 
behalf of Sarah Verardo, Chief Executive Office (CEO) of the 
Independence Fund, thank you for the opportunity to testify 
before you today.
    The Independence Fund was founded in the halls of Walter 
Reed to serve catastrophically wounded veterans, their 
caregivers, and their families. While the Independence Fund 
submitted written testimony on most of the bills before the 
subcommittee, I will limit my remarks to two pieces of 
legislation that impact our constituency the most.
    In 2017, VA promulgated a regulation entitled, 
``Prosthetics and Rehabilitative Items and Services'' under 38 
CFR, Part 17 that specifies when adaptive creative recreation 
equipment within prosthetics may be approved.
    The regulation cites, ``An item that is designed to 
compensate for or that may by design compensate for loss of 
physical, sensory, or cognitive function and is necessary for a 
veteran to actively and regularly participate in a sport, 
recreation, or leisure activity to achieve the veteran's 
rehabilitative goals.''
    This definition appears to cover items like a running 
blade, climbing blade, a swimming or diving prosthetic, among 
others. However, the regulation potentially limits VA's 
approval at a local level of such an item for a veteran unless 
it is part of a medically necessary rehabilitation plan to meet 
a medical goal and not for a long-term life or health plan and 
a routine solitary or group activity for what VA states is only 
for personal enjoyment.
    The wording of that regulation has the potential to bias VA 
practitioners and VA employees in the prosthetics approval 
chain from allowing these devices to be approved, ordered, 
manufactured, or provided to veterans who seek to remain active 
throughout their lives beyond the rehabilitation phase.
    The very nature of this regulation appears to be at odds 
with VA's often invoked philosophy around whole health of the 
veteran and the VA's implied mission to help veterans heal and 
incrementally or ultimately achieve some degree of self-
actualization and self worth despite their medical history.
    The idea of using whole health approach to medicine is an 
important aspect of improving mental health and reducing 
suicide. Because of the disparity between VA's whole health 
philosophy and the regulation it imposes, limiting when 
veterans can obtain adaptive prosthetics, the Independence Fund 
is pleased to support Chairwoman Miller-Meeks' legislation that 
will amend Section 1702, Subparagraph 6 to specifically include 
adaptive prosthesis and terminal devices for sports and other 
recreational activities to the list of medical services VA must 
provide.
    This legislation will ensure veterans seeking to enjoy and 
benefit from physical and psychological aspects of recreational 
activities will now be guaranteed access to the prosthetics 
they need to thrive. The Independence Fund encourages the 
committee to quickly pass this legislation.
    Suicide prevention is one of VA's stated healthcare 
priorities. In 2020, Congress passed into law Commander John 
Scott Hannon Veteran Mental Health Care Improvement Act. 
Included in that act is the staff Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox 
Suicide Prevention Grant, which provides grant recipients the 
means and authority to evaluate suicidality through a mental 
health assessment.
    In the case the veteran is deemed to need access to 
immediate higher level mental health care due to acute suicidal 
crisis, the statute requires the secretary to furnish that 
care. What is missing from the statute is the time requirement 
in which that care must be placed.
    Along with reauthorizing the grant program, the No Wrong 
Door for Veteran Act mandates that if the secretary cannot 
provide the emergent care within 72 hours, the veteran will be 
deemed eligible for emergent suicide care under Paragraph 1720J 
of Title 38.
    This is a much-needed provision. Veterans who are in acute 
crisis do not have days or weeks to be placed in a care setting 
that can address the crisis. This legislation will ensure that 
every care option is used so veterans are not left on their own 
while they are in the greatest period of need.
    The Independence Fund fully supports the enactment of this 
legislation. This concludes my testimony and I am happy to 
answer questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Clark Pennington Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Pennington.
    Mr. Retzer, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF JON RETZER

    Mr. Retzer. Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Takano 
and Member Bergman, thank you for inviting DAV to offer our 
views on the veterans' healthcare bills being considered by the 
subcommittee today.
    Many veterans do not recognize their veteran status and are 
not receiving care and benefits through the Veterans Health and 
Benefits Administration and community services.
    By asking have you served healthcare providers and 
community partners can identify veterans who might otherwise go 
unnoticed and ensure they receive tailored healthcare, access 
to benefits, and community services. For this reason, DAV is 
pleased to support H.R. 6291, Have You Served.
    Data is essential for preventing veteran suicide by 
identifying at-risk individuals, tailoring their interventions, 
and monitoring trends. Leveraging data enables VA to comprehend 
veteran suicide complexities, devise effective prevention 
strategies, and ultimately save lives.
    Therefore, DAV supports H.R. 6330, the Veteran Sentinel 
Act, but recommends expanding its scope to also include 
collecting suicide data for veterans using the veterans 
community care program.
    2.7 million rural and highly rural veterans confront unique 
obstacles in accessing VA's top-notch healthcare services. DAV 
supports H.R. 7504, the Rural Veterans Transportation to Care 
Act that would modify the existing transportation grant program 
to improve access to healthcare for rural veterans.
    H.R. 9324, the Protecting Veteran Access to Telemedicine 
Service Act, would enhance telehealth care accessibility for 
veterans in remote or underserved areas by eliminating the in-
person visit, a requirement for prescribing certain controlled 
medications.
    DAV supports this bill as it would guarantee continuous 
medication access for veterans, regardless of their ability to 
physically go to a VA facility.
    H.R. 9427 would direct the VA to carry out a pilot grant 
program for non-VA outpatient mental health facilities to 
ensure the delivery of culturally competent, evidence-based 
mental health care for veterans.
    Rather than creating a parallel system with little 
oversight and potential lower standards of care, we recommend 
increasing the number of VA mental health clinicians to reduce 
the wait times for mental health care in VA and veteran 
community care program settings.
    The recent VA Red Team report emphasized the need to expand 
the use of VA direct healthcare and balance the use of 
community healthcare services to prevent the erosion of the VA 
healthcare system.
    Madam Chair, H.R. 9438, and No Wrong Door for Veterans Act, 
would amend and reauthorize the VA Staff Sergeant Parker Gordon 
Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program. DAV has no concerns about 
the provision to reauthorize the Fox Grant Program for an 
additional 3 years.
    However, the bill would also establish a new access 
standard mandating a 72-hour deadline for the VA to provide 
services after a veteran is referred to non-suicidal mental or 
behavioral health follow-up care.
    Although we prioritize timely access to mental health 
services for veterans, this provision may risk disconnecting 
them from VA and other necessary support services. For these 
reasons we do not support this provision of the bill.
    DAV supports H.R. 9478 to include adaptive prosthesis and 
terminal devices for sports and other recreational activities 
in VA's medical service package. These devices will help to 
promote physical activity and overall well-being among 
veterans, allowing them to engage in sports and recreational 
activities that they need and enjoy.
    DAV supports the Safeguarding VA's Healthcare Workforce Act 
which would allow VA to bring in outside healthcare providers 
when they need to fill vacant shifts, ensuring enrolled 
veterans have timely access to care.
    However, we highly recommend VA prioritize its efforts to 
maintain proper hiring and retention practices, strengthen 
internal staffing levels, and remain the primary provider and 
coordinator of care while effectively utilizing community care 
networks.
    Finally, DAV supports the Service Dogs Assisting Veterans, 
SAVES, Act that would establish a pilot program to award grants 
to nonprofit organizations to assist in providing service dogs 
to eligible veterans.
    This bill would also ensure prescribed service dogs are 
provided at no cost, that there is reimbursement for any 
required follow-up training, and as well as coverage of 
veterinary benefits for the life of the service dog.
    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, this concludes my testimony and I 
am pleased to answer questions you or members of the committee 
may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jon Retzer Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much.
    Thanks to all of you for your thoughtful comments.
    I now recognize general Bergman for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    Thanks to all of you for being here today and your 
thoughtful, articulate, and timely testimony, not only timely 
in the subject at hand, but maintaining yourself within the 
standards of time. You know, you did not waste any time. You 
got right to the point.
    I would like to focus on two important bills that will help 
improve veterans' access to mental health care and suicide 
prevention programs. First, the No Wrong Door for Veterans Act, 
which I joined Chairwoman Miller-Meeks in introducing last 
month. Despite spending more and more money each year on VA 
suicide prevention programs, more and more veterans continue to 
take their lives every day.
    There is a--it leaves a hole not only, I think, I know in 
the family's heart, but it leaves a hole in those of us, and 
you included, trying to do the right thing for the right 
reasons for our veterans. It takes a little bit out of you 
every day knowing that we are still dealing with this.
    The Fox Grant Program, which I helped to champion during 
the 116th Congress, complements VA's existing suicide 
prevention efforts by targeting veterans outside of the VA 
system and ensuring that those in need are able to receive 
evidence-based care.
    The No Wrong Door for Veterans Act will reauthorize and 
improve the Fox Grant Program so that more veterans can 
continue to receive the suicide prevention that they need, 
prevention and care that is, not just prevention.
    Second, I would like to highlight Chairman Bost's Veterans 
Mental Health Access Act which would create a pilot program to 
increase veterans' access to behavioral health care in the 
community. Both of these bills would make real changes to 
address the veteran mental health and suicide epidemic while 
protecting and complementing the important work of the VA.
    Now for questions. Ms. Meyer, could you speak to the 
bureaucratic barriers at VA that might prevent a veteran from 
receiving mental health or suicide prevention care?
    Ms. Meyer. Thank you for the question. The barriers tend to 
be twofold, one of them being the requirements of the program 
to be enrolled, participating in the lengthy and sometimes, 
well, most of the time redundant baseline mental health 
screenings.
    We may have a veteran that is qualified based on the C-
SSRS, however, they do not want to participate in four or five 
other baseline assessments, so they are now ineligible so they 
would not be then enrolled in the Fox Grant Program. AWP will 
still refer them to the VA.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay. Do you think that the bills like 
Chairman Bost's Veterans Mental Health Access Act will give 
more options to veterans who need mental health care?
    Ms. Meyer. We hope so.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay.
    Mr. Pennington, how has the Fox Grant Program improved 
veteran access to suicide prevention care?
    Mr. Pennington. Well, I would say that the Fox Grant is 
obviously an opportunity for organizations to capitalize on 
that funding to move their programs forward.
    At the Independence Fund we do not typically take part in 
that in our suicide prevention. Our operation resiliency 
program is a program that is funded through 100 percent 
donations.
    The Fox Grant is enabling us to also reach out to 
organizations like law enforcement and using that opportunity 
to educate law enforcement, who is typically our first 
responders onsite with somebody who is in crisis. That is a 
huge opportunity for us under the Fox Grant.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay. I am going to interpret, but what you 
said is that the reforms to the Fox Grant Program included in 
H.R. 9438 will actually improve in broad-based, you know, more 
broad basing of these efforts and hopefully targeted to 
appropriate and much in need veterans.
    Mr. Pennington. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay.
    Well, then with that, Madam Chair, I know there was a 
couple of hearings ago I went over my time so I am going to 
yield back 35 seconds.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much, General Bergman.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. Mr. Dempsey, can you 
elaborate on the benefits of requiring the baseline screening 
to be conducted using the Columbia protocol in terms of 
streamlining intake and standardizing data collection as 
specified in the reauthorization of the Fox Grant Program?
    Mr. Dempsey. Of course. Thank you, Madam Chair. Our 
perspective on that bill in using the Columbia protocol is very 
much rooted in our own personal experience at Wounded Warrior 
Project where our largest programming investment has been in 
the delivery of mental health support and related care.
    We recently established a triage team to help assign 
veterans to several programs within a continuum of support. The 
Columbia protocol has allowed us to quickly and effectively 
screen veterans for their risk of suicide and help assign them 
to the appropriate level of care.
    I think it is the efficiency that you can move through and 
screen that has been the most beneficial aspect of us, but I 
would be happy to follow up with colleagues of mine who work 
with warriors directly and then we can, perhaps, provide some 
more insight on just how effective that has been for our 
organization. Thank you.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you.
    Ms. Meyer, as you know, many VA medical facilities are not 
aware of the Fox Grant Program. Can you tell me why you think 
the quarterly briefings in this bill would build partnerships 
between the community and the VA, as well as increase care 
coordination and ultimately provide better care to our 
veterans?
    Ms. Meyer. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for your question. I think 
that the quarterly briefings would be successful. When you 
become a grantee you are required to reach out to all the 
suicide prevention coordinators within your community and so we 
have done that.
    Then the gap so far has been that then the frontline staff 
answering the phone has no idea when I call and say, hi, I am a 
Fox Grantee and I am a Fox participant. They do not even know 
what that is.
    Making sure that they understand, knowing who we are when 
we make the phone call, knowing why we are calling to serve 
that veteran immediately would just, I think it could change 
the intake process completely.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you.
    Mr. Retzer, the H.R. 9324, Protecting Veteran Access to 
Telemedicine Services Act of 2024, how do you believe this bill 
would better serve rural veterans who may not have a VA 
provider within a reasonable driving distance?
    Mr. Retzer. Thank you for that question, very good 
question. We look at this situation as our veterans that are in 
challenges with barriers for geographical location or even 
climate, they may not be able to make their way VA all the 
time.
    That brings a risk when there is a deadline to get their 
medications on time. Many other medications that they are 
taking actually are much needed for lifesaving purposes and 
actually have some risky side effects if they do not have that 
continuity of care from their medication. That is one of the 
things that we see in the advancement in the use of 
telemedicine to be able to facilitate that gap and barrier.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Pennington, in regards to H.R. 9478, the Veterans 
Sports Act, you have noted concerns about VA's policy of not 
providing adaptive recreation equipment such as adaptive 
prostheses or terminal devices when the equipment is intended 
solely for recreation.
    How many veterans have you heard from who were denied such 
equipment due to this policy and could you provide any specific 
examples of veterans who are affected by this limitation and 
the impact it had on their physical, and even more importantly, 
their mental or emotional well-being?
    Mr. Pennington. Yes, ma'am, thank you. In reference to 
that, I mean, you can look back to a survey that we conducted 
in 2021 where we reached out to a significant population within 
our constituency that is seeing a significant reduction in the 
opportunity for recreational prosthetics.
    I can bring two examples to you right now that we are 
currently working with the VA on that has specifically 
requested swimming blades, specifically requested opportunities 
to continue recreational opportunities and activities that they 
did prior to their injury that they no longer can do because of 
their injury and therefore is impacting their mental health.
    Because of some of the restrictions in not just the fitting 
of a prosthetic to the individual initially, then the 
opportunity to have access to recreational prosthesis is not a 
significant mental health barrier for them.
    We saw a significant decline in both of these that we have 
access to and that we presented to the committee before in the 
past that we really believe that this opportunity improves 
their mental health.
    I did hear from the VA during their testimony here today 
that they believe this is already part of their process. I 
would say that the information coming from that level down to 
the practitioners inside of those VISNs is not happening 
because they are being denied access to these recreational 
prosthetics that ultimately go to mental health improvement.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you very much.
    As a doctor and veteran I can certainly testify to the need 
for making people whole, similar to what their lives were 
before their injuries.
    Seeing that no other members are here, I would recognize 
the ranking member for closing remarks but he is not here.
    On behalf of the subcommittee I want to thank you all, all 
of the witnesses for being here today. I look forward to 
working with you and with the VA to address some of the issues 
facing our veterans and some of the points brought up today in 
testimony.
    The complete written statements of today's witnesses will 
be entered into the hearing record. I ask unanimous consent 
that all members have 5 legislative days to revise and extend 
their remarks and include extraneous material. Hearing no 
objection, so ordered.
    I want to thank the members and witnesses for their 
participation today. This hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement of Carolyn Clancy
                  
                  
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                  Prepared Statement of Brian Dempsey

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                   Prepared Statement of Missy Meyer

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and other 
honorable members of the Subcommittee

    Thank you for the honor to testify before the House Veterans 
Affairs Subcommittee on Health. There are many bills up for discussion 
today, but my testimony will primarily focus on one: The No Wrong Door 
for Veterans Act, which reauthorizes the SSG Parker Gordon Fox Suicide 
Prevention Grant Program.
    However, before I discuss the bill, I wanted to mention America's 
Warrior Partnership's support for another bill being discussed today, 
H.R. 9427, introduced by Chairman Bost, to carry out a pilot program to 
provide grants to outpatient mental health facilities for the provision 
of culturally competent, evidence-based mental health care for 
veterans.
    At AWP, one of the most common requests for health care services is 
related to mental health. The more our Nation can expand access to 
mental health care for veterans, the better. But it must be done with a 
holistic approach. Counseling is a great tool, but every veteran is 
unique. Offering additional choices, such as outpatient facilities for 
mental health, access to Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) treatment (since 
it is often concurrent with mental health crisis), and Post-Traumatic 
Growth (PTG) training (both pre-and post-crisis) can expand the 
resources available.
    That being said, AWP is focused on outreach to all veterans. Since 
I was last before the Subcommittee to discuss the SSG Fox Grant last 
December, much has changed and much has been accomplished. AWP is one 
of the most successful recipients of funding from the SSG Parker Gordon 
Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program (aka SSG Fox Grant).
    As we told the Committee last year, the original idea of the SSG 
Fox Grant had a singular goal: find veterans in the community that are 
in need and help them.
    However, as the program was implemented by the VA and put into 
practice by organizations across the country, part of this goal has 
been diluted and lost. To reach that goal, Congress needs to implement 
reforms that specifically bring back outreach as the singular focus, 
streamline the intake into the VA for eligible Fox veterans, and hold 
organizations accountable.
    We are very thankful for all your hard work on this program, 
Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley. The introduced 
legislation, H.R. 9438, to reauthorize the SSG Fox Grant, is a terrific 
start, and AWP is grateful for your efforts to continue this successful 
program. To help improve the SSG Fox Grant program, we offer a few 
observations and suggestions:

    Program Overview

    As one of 80 SSG Fox Grant recipients, we have done a significant 
amount of outreach with the program since its inception. From October 
2023 to July 2024, AWP produced results:

        -1,818 warriors screened for suicidal ideation using the 
        Columbia-Suicide Severity Rating Scale

        -13 percent disclosed some level (low, moderate, high) of 
        suicide risk (235)

    This rate of outreach, screening, and eligibility is consistent 
with past years.
    The SSG Fox Grant Program is working. Veterans who are both inside 
and outside the VA and VSO system and in need of assistance are being 
identified.
    Relationships are being built and connections with resources made. 
Since Fox Grant Inception, 370 veterans have trusted AWP with their 
thoughts of suicide while only 6 percent of those warriors were seeking 
assistance for a mental health related issue to begin with. This is a 
success story and asking ``the question'' works. AWP, the VA, and 
Congress have all played an integral part in saving these veterans, but 
there is more that can be done.

Coordination:

    AWP is thankful for the inclusion of language that directs 
briefings for VA employees about the SSG Fox Grant program. It's 
important for organizations in the community and the VA to all 
coordinate together. It is our hope that grant recipients will be 
invited to these briefings and work together to improve communication 
and ``warm hand-offs'' of individual cases as they arise. Previously, 
many VA staff members had no idea what the Fox Grant is or why grantees 
were calling asking for assistance with a ``Fox Participant.'' Ensuring 
a bi-direction, solid working relationship with local Suicide 
Prevention Coordinators and VA staff is essential, as is more education 
to frontline staff on the SSG Fox Grant. Accordingly, as an advocate 
for veterans who trust us, it is essential for the VA to communicate 
back to grantees their plan and status of that veteran.

Screening Questionnaires:

    Next, AWP is very grateful for the inclusion of language in H.R. 
9438 that eliminates some of the redundancies and bureaucracy of the 
screening questions. As AWP mentioned in previous testimony in December 
2023, rarely did veterans make it through all the questionnaires, and 
the Columbia Protocol (C-SSRS) has proven to be the most inclusive and 
comprehensive set of questions needed to ensure those at risk are 
identified quickly and easily.
    While the legislation mandates C-SSRS as the only required 
screening protocol, AWP recommends adding language that would make the 
five follow-on assessments optional. Rarely do veterans make it through 
all five of the VA-mandated assessment questionnaires, and it has 
become burdensome on staff as well. Instead, the focus should be on 
ensuring the veterans have access to resources and not focusing on 
answering redundant questions.

Crisis Intervention:

    In H.R. 9438, the section on ``Emergent Suicide Care'' is a strong 
addition. In many instances, AWP has used the 988-emergency crisis line 
to help veterans identified through Fox Grant outreach. This language 
helps codify support and resources available to those who are unable to 
obtain services in the crucial 72-hr window after first contact.

Clearly Defined Pathway for Eligible Individuals:

    The addition of the Emergent Care section in H.R. 9438 is very 
helpful. However, AWP recommends adding a section that clearly lays out 
the expectations for the program itself and identifies boundaries for 
the VA and organizations. While AWP does all it can to provide 
connections to referrals and resources, AWP is not a direct service 
provider. It is clearly outlined in the scope of the grant proposal. 
However, the line has become muddied and expectations are often 
unclear.
    To fix this, it would be helpful to add a section that requires a 
specific program ``on-ramp'' for veterans identified by grant 
recipients that need VA care. The process does not need to be complex 
or burdensome. Since grant recipients have already asked the required 
questions and processed the information, passing along the information 
to the VA without burdening the veterans themselves again with tiring, 
frustrating, redundant questions (which sometimes involve discussing 
traumatic experiences) would dramatically increase the success rate of 
the program as well as assist the veteran more efficiently.
    This can be done in several ways. For example, requiring that after 
grantees go through the required screening procedures, eligible 
veterans must be connected with the 988-crisis line or their local VAMC 
for expedited care when necessary. In addition, Congress could also 
mandate that the VA create a dedicated phone line for intakes from 
grantees that would offer expedited care.

Accountability:

    The SSG Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program is 
working. To keep the program successful, we need to ensure all 
organizations that are receiving grants in the program are held to 
account. The $750,000 grants come from the trust Congress and the 
American taxpayers have in our organizations, and AWP holds that trust 
in the highest regard. Accordingly, AWP holds itself to account 
regularly with audits and reviews, and we work hard to ensure these 
funds are maximized efficiently to find veterans in the community and 
serve them.
    At AWP, we hope all other grantees are holding themselves 
accountable with the same high standards. However, Congress and the VA 
must also hold organizations accountable with verifiable metrics. AWP 
recommends adding a section requiring the VA develop accountability 
metrics that report outreach, referrals, etc--and then require regular 
reports to Congress. It is the only way to find if some organizations 
are not fulfilling their responsibility under the program.
    For the metrics themselves, it's hard to identify specific keys to 
success. However, AWP believes the best way to look at program success 
is to measure the number of screened individuals and the number of 
eligible veterans, in addition to outreach completed to document 
efforts toward identifying those in need.
    While accountability and metrics are vital, the Data Collection 
Tool (DCT) implemented by the VA at the end of 2023 has had the 
opposite of its intended effect. While developed to streamline data 
submission previously completed in thousands of pdf documents, the 
result has been a standstill in reporting for many grantees. The SSG 
Fox Grant Program assessments are meant to be anonymous. The DCT now 
requires a participant's Date of Birth and Social Security Number to 
enter any data shared in the DCT. AWP has gone from reporting nearly 
all data to less than 5 percent. Previously, the program was hindered 
by the redundancy of assessments and lack of incentive to complete them 
multiple times. Now that is compounded by the obvious lack of anonymity 
that comes with providing your PHI to the VA for an ``anonymous 
program.'' AWP hoped the DCT would save both AWP staff and clients from 
repetitive and exhausting data reporting, but unfortunately it has only 
diminished any data collection the VA hoped to gain through this grant.
    In February 2024, the VA asked for suggestions on how to remedy 
this issue. AWP has suggested returning to participant identification 
numbers that were previously used to report data (created and tracked 
only by the reporting agency) rather than PHI of participants. This 
issue remains despite repeated acknowledgements by VA staff that data 
is not being adequately captured with the DCT as it is.

Grantee Funding:

    For AWP, the only limitation in being more successful with the 
program is funding. If the ceiling on the grants was doubled overnight, 
so would AWP's outreach efforts.
    Accordingly, while $750,000 has been the limit on SSG Fox Grants to 
date, there are organizations, like AWP, who have successfully utilized 
the grant and could do more with more. While not for all organizations, 
raising the ceiling could be beneficial if done correctly. Again, it 
would require metrics and reporting.
    Members of the Subcommittee, thank you again for the opportunity to 
testify today. We look forward to our continued work together and would 
like to thank each of you for all your hard work and dedication to 
those who served in our Nation's armed forces.

                                 

                 Prepared Statement of Clark Pennington

    The Independence Fund was established in 2007 to empower our 
Nation's catastrophically wounded, injured, or ill Veterans, by helping 
them cope with and overcome the physical, mental, and emotional wounds 
sustained in service. The Fund is dedicated to improving the lives of 
Veterans and their families through a range of programs including 
Mobility, Caregiver Support, Advocacy, Casework, Operation RESILIENCE, 
Independence@Home, and other Family oriented initiatives, The 
Independence Fund strives to bridge the gaps in care across all these 
areas and offers comprehensive support to Veterans and their families 
in need by working with the Department of Veterans Affairs, Department 
of Defense Health Agency, State level agencies, non-profit entities, 
and private mental health professionals.
    The Independence Fund is honored to present its views on the 
legislation that impacts catastrophically disabled veterans and their 
caregivers.

Draft Legislation to amend title 38, United States Code, to include a 
representative of the National Association of State Veterans Homes to 
the Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory Committee of the Department of 
Veterans Affairs.

    This bill amends section 7315(a) of title 38, USC, requiring the 
Under Secretary of Health to consult with the President of the National 
Association of State Veterans Homes (NASVA) when selecting members for 
appointment to the Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory Committee. This 
legislation will also require that the Committee include one 
representative who holds a professional license in nursing home 
administration and is a member of the National Association of State 
Veterans Homes.
    The Independence Fund supports this legislation. No other 
association is more qualified at understanding the needs of aging 
veterans than members of NASVH, and as such, their participation will 
be an invaluable in advising the Under Secretary of Health and 
assessing the capabilities and needs of VA's obligation to care for our 
aging veteran population.

Draft Legislation to direct the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to carry 
out a pilot program to provide grants to outpatient mental health 
facilities for the provision of culturally competent, evidence-based 
mental health care for veterans, and for other purposes.

    The Independence Fund holds no position on this legislation.

Draft Legislation to amend title 38, United States Code, to require 
that non-citizen appointees to positions in the Veterans Health 
Administration are subjected to background investigations prior to 
employment.

    The Independence Fund holds no position on this legislation.

Draft legislation to amend title 38, United States Code, to permit the 
voluntary transmission of patient contact information to certain 
religious or faith-based organizations by chaplains employed by the 
Department of Veterans Affairs, and other purposes.

    The Independence Fund holds no position on this legislation.

H.R. 9438, a bill to amend and reauthorize the Staff Sergeant Parker 
Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program of the Department of 
Veterans Affairs.

    This legislation includes four main provisions. First, the bill 
limits the amount of the grant that can be used on food and non-
alcoholic drinks. This is a commonsense amendment that ensures grant 
recipients are using the bulk of the funding to provide services. 
Second, the bill requires quarterly updates to VA personnel on grant 
recipients that are within 100 miles of the VAMC to better educate and 
coordinate available services the grant recipients provide. Third, this 
bill requires VA to refer a veteran who needs emergent suicide care to 
the community if VA cannot provide that care within 72 hours. Last, 
this legislation will extend the program until September 30, 2027. 
Veterans who are in crisis cannot wait for care. The Independence Fund 
fully supports this legislation.

    H.R. 9324, a bill that amends title 38, United States Code, to 
authorize certain health care professionals employed by the Department 
of Veterans Affairs to deliver, distribute, or dispense to veterans 
certain controlled medications via telemedicine under certain 
conditions, and of other purposes.

    The Independence Fund supports this legislation. VA is a leader in 
the use of telemedicine, working to improve access to care regardless 
of where veterans live or their preferred mode of receiving care should 
continue to be a priority. A gap in current law, that has been 
temporarily lifted in response to COVID-19 and is set to expire on 
December 31, 2024, prevents VA providers from prescribing controlled 
substances without an in-person medical examination. This legislation 
will make this authority permanent to VA providers, allowing for 
increased access and functionality to VA's robust telehealth 
capabilities.

Draft legislation that directs the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to 
carry out a pilot program under which the Secretary may fill vacant 
shifts at medical facilities of the Department of Veterans Affairs with 
non-Department health care providers.

    The VA currently is under a 5-year, indefinite delivery/indefinite 
quantity contract with the medical staffing company, Aptive, to provide 
staffing services for all levels of clinical care and administrative 
support. If this contract is insufficient to fulfil VA's needs, The 
Independence Fund recommends modifying the current contract.

H.R. 9478, a bill to amend title 38, United States Code, to include 
adaptive prostheses and terminal devices for sports and other 
recreational activities in the medical services furnished to eligible 
veterans by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs.

    The Independence Fund fully supports this much needed amendment to 
law. VA currently applies a 2017 regulation ``Prosthetic and 
Rehabilitative Items and Services, 38 CFR Part 17 that specifies when 
``adaptive recreation equipment'' within prosthetics may be approved, 
allowing for ``an item that is designed to compensate for, or that, by 
design compensates for, loss of physical, sensory, or cognitive 
function and is necessary for a veteran to actively and regularly 
participate in a sport, recreation, or leisure activity to achieve the 
veteran's rehabilitative goals.'' This language limits approval of 
these adaptive and recreational prosthetics when they are specifically 
part of a medical goal, and not for long term life and health goals 
that are described as ``for personal enjoyment.'' This regulation 
ignores VA's philosophy of ``whole health.'' Veterans who have lost a 
limb and what to begin, return to, or maintain an activity that keeps 
them active improve social engagement and psychological and physical 
health and should not have to be subject to specific medical goals.

Draft legislation to require the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to award 
grants to nonprofit organizations to assist such organizations in 
carrying out programs to provide service dogs to eligible veterans, and 
for other purposes.

    Research studies have found that veterans who have PTSD see a 66 
percent reduction in symptoms within 3 months of being paired with a 
service dog. This research found that the presence of the service dog 
lowers anxiety and depression, improves social functioning and 
relationship health, and interrupts panic attacks. Unfortunately, the 
capability of organizations to train and provide service dogs does not 
meet the demand. This legislation will provide grants to nonprofit 
organizations to increase the number of dogs that can be trained to be 
service animals. This is a small investment to increase access to a 
clinically proven method of improving veterans' mental health. The 
Independence Fund is proud to support this legislation.

H.R. 9146, a bill to amend title 38, United States Code, to require the 
consideration of continuity of health care in determining best medical 
interest under the Veterans Community Care Program, and for other 
purposes.

    This legislation amends Section 1703(d)(2) of title 38 to include 
continuity of care as a consideration for referral to community care. 
1703 (a)(2)(B) requires the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to ``ensure 
continuity of care and services'' when coordinating non-VA hospital 
care. However, under subparagraph (d) ``Conditions Under Which Care Is 
Required To Be Furnished Through Non-Department Providers'' there is no 
mention of continuity of care as a factor for consideration in 
determining the bast medical interest for when and where a veteran 
receives care. This legislation includes continuity of care in the list 
of considerations a provider can use to ensure veterans get non-
disrupted care. The Independence Fund suggests that the bill be amended 
to include guidelines that will prevent CCN providers from requesting 
additional authorization of care without that care being approved by 
the PCP or the VA provider who initially authorized the care.

Draft legislation to amend title 38, United States Code, to make 
improvements relating to conflicts of interest for certain Department 
of Veterans Affairs employees, and for other purposes.

    The Independence Fund does not hold a position on this legislation.

H.R. 9301, a bill to direct the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to 
include two counties in New Mexico in a certain Veteran Integrated 
Service Network.

    The Independence Fund does not hold a position on this legislation.

H.R. 6291, the ``Have You Served Act''

    Many State and local governments and community organizations 
provide benefits and services to military veterans and their families, 
but all too often veterans are unaware of the benefits. This grant 
program provides funds to human resource offices in these agencies and 
organizations to train frontline employees on how to ask about military 
service as well as build campaigns to proactively inform the veteran 
community of the programs and services that are unique to that 
community. The Independence Fund fully supports this legislation.

H.R. 6330, the ``Veterans' Sentinel Act''

    Every effort must be taken to understand and mitigate the 
circumstances that lead to suicide. It is particularly disturbing when 
a veteran dies by suicide on a VA campus. This should signal to VA and 
advocates alike that the system designed to provide mental health care 
is inadequate. The Veterans' Sentinel Act call on the Secretary to 
establish a pilot that would form a working group to collect and 
analyze data regarding on-campus attempted and completed death by 
suicide. Importantly, this legislation requires the working group, 
through the Secretary, to send a report to the House and Senate 
Committees on Veterans Affairs that outlines any recommendations that 
can lead to the reduction of suicide attempts on VA campuses. The 
Independence Fund fully supports this legislation.

H.R. 7504, the ``Rural Veterans Transportation to Care Act''

    H.R. 7504, the ``Rural Veterans Transportation to Care Act'' amends 
current law, allowing transportation grants to include rural regions, 
which account for 2.7 million enrolled veterans. By expanding access to 
this population, veterans will have easier access to VA's direct care 
services. Additionally, this bill will increase the grant amount to 
modify vehicles to comply with ADA requirements. Both of these 
provisions are necessary to care for veterans who are catastrophically 
disabled.

H.R. 8562, the ``Parity for Native Hawaiian Veterans Act of 2024''

    The Independence Fund holds no position on this legislation.

                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Jon Retzer

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley and Members of the 
Subcommittee:

    Thank you for inviting DAV (Disabled American Veterans) to testify 
at today's legislative hearing of the Subcommittee on Health. DAV, a 
congressionally chartered non-profit veterans service organization 
(VSO), is comprised of nearly one million wartime service-disabled 
veterans. Its single purpose is to empower veterans to lead high-
quality lives with respect and dignity. DAV is pleased to offer our 
views on the bills under consideration today by the Subcommittee.

                   H.R. 6291, the Have You Served Act

    H.R. 6291, the Have you Served Act, would require the Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA) to provide grants to eligible organizations for 
the purpose of conducting ``Ask the Question Campaigns'' encouraging 
human services professionals, State and local governments and community 
providers to ask whether someone has served in the military. By 
promoting the question ``have you served?'', the bill seeks to raise 
awareness about veteran status among health care providers, social 
service agencies, and the general public. Improved identification of 
veterans can lead to better access to VA benefits and services and 
addressing unmet needs within the veteran community.
    While DAV does not have a specific resolution on this matter, the 
bill could potentially get veterans who are unaware of their veteran 
status access to earned benefits and health care services. For these 
reasons DAV supports H.R. 6291, in accordance with our Statement of 
Policy, which calls for enhanced outreach to ensure that all disabled 
veterans receive the benefits they have earned through their military 
service.

                  H.R. 6330, the Veterans Sentinel Act

    H.R. 6330, the Veterans Sentinel Act, would address the issue of 
veteran suicides on VA property by implementing a pilot program within 
the VA.
    This bill would require the VA to set up a working group within the 
Office of Mental Health and Suicide Prevention for the purpose of 
gathering and analyzing data on veteran suicides and attempted suicides 
that occur on VA property. The working group would unify disparate 
sources of data related to on-campus suicides to improve the accuracy 
and comprehensiveness of the information collected. Furthermore, the VA 
would analyze the statistical trends of suicides and attempted suicides 
at VA facilities annually and be required to report on policies, 
staffing and resource levels and suggest preventive actions for these 
incidents.
    DAV supports H.R. 6330, the Veterans Sentinel Act, in accordance 
with DAV Resolution No. 224, which supports program improvement and 
enhanced resources for VA mental health programs and suicide prevention 
efforts. We do however, suggest the bill be amended across all veteran 
care settings to include gathering information on suicide attempts and 
deaths within the Veterans Community Care Program (VCCP) as well. This 
expanded study should encompass onsite VCCP suicides and any suicides 
occurring within 24 hours of Community Care Network (CCN) contact. This 
timeframe aligns with the VA's current practice for root cause 
analyses, a standard not yet adopted by the VCCP.

        H.R. 7504, the Rural Veterans Transportation to Care Act

    The goal of H.R. 7504, the Rural Veterans Transportation to Care 
Act, is to improve veterans transportation options to VA medical 
facilities for veterans living in rural areas.
    Veterans living in rural areas can face challenges that lead to 
disparities in access and quality of health care compared with their 
urban counterparts. This bipartisan bill would expand eligibility to 
the VA's Highly Rural Transportation Grant Program, which provides 
grant funding for veteran service organizations and State veterans 
service agencies to provide veterans transportation in eligible 
counties by increasing the maximum amount of funding granted to 
purchase an ADA-compliant vehicle.
    The bill would also modify the existing grant program to include 
both rural and highly rural counties, by redefining ``rural'' and 
``highly rural'' using Rural-Urban Commuting Area (RUCA) designations 
to better account for population density, urbanization, and commuting 
patterns.
    Our nation's 2.4 million veterans living in rural areas often face 
unique difficulties accessing VA health care that those living in urban 
and suburban areas do not. Chief among them is transportation to VA 
medical facilities. The nearly 300,000 veterans living in areas 
considered highly rural face even greater obstacles and deserve 
increased attention to assistance in accessing VA's high-quality health 
care.
    DAV is proud to support H.R. 7504, the Rural Veterans 
Transportation to Care Act, in accordance with DAV Resolution No. 42, 
which calls for ensuring sufficient access to care to meet the health 
needs of veterans residing in rural or remote areas. This bill would 
help the VA provide more rural veterans better access to health care 
and help ensure our Nation keeps its promises to America's veterans.

     H.R. 8562, the Parity for Native Hawaiian Veterans Act of 2024

    H.R. 8562, the Parity for Native Hawaiian Veterans Act of 2024, 
would amend title 38, United States Code, and make modifications to the 
program for direct housing loans and medical care services from the 
Department of Veterans Affairs for Native Hawaiians.
    The bill would modify the definition of Native Hawaiian veterans 
and aims to improve access to medical care for Native Hawaiian veterans 
by eliminating copays for services received through the VA, and 
enabling the Native Hawaiian Health Care System to seek direct 
reimbursement for certain costs from the VA.
    DAV has no resolution on this issue and takes no position on the 
bill.

       H.R. 9146, the Ensuring Continuity in Veterans Health Act

    H.R. 9146, the Ensuring Continuity in Veterans Health Act, would 
ensure that continuity of health care is considered when determining 
the best medical interest under the Veterans Community Care Program 
(VCCP).
    The proposed legislation would amend title 38, United States Code, 
to ensure that continuity of health care is a factor considered in 
determining the best medical interest for veterans using the VCCP. This 
would be achieved by adding a new subparagraph to Section 1703(d)(2) of 
title 38, which explicitly includes continuity of care as a 
consideration. The amendment does not specify the definition of 
continuity of care or its requirements. The focus is solely on 
expanding the criteria used by a provider to evaluate the best medical 
interests of a veteran within the existing framework of the VCCP when 
VA services are not readily available.
    It appears the bill aims to ensure that veterans are able to 
maintain consistent relationships with their health care providers and/
or complete an episode of care when referred to care in the community. 
We agree it is important that VA maintain quality and consistency of 
health care services provided to veterans and believe VA already has 
the authority to consider continuity of care as a factor under the 
existing statute. At the same time, it is important to point out that 
numerous research studies have shown that care provided by the VA 
direct care system is of comparable and often superior quality to that 
provided by private sector providers and may have other advantages from 
coordination and continuity of care perspectives.

       H.R. 9301, New Mexico Rural Veteran Health Care Access Act

    H.R. 9301, the New Mexico Rural Veteran Health Care Access Act, 
would add two new counties in New Mexico as part of the VA's Veterans 
Integrated Service Network (VISN) 17. The new areas to be included in 
the VISN would be Eddy and Otero counties.
    Currently, Eddy and Otero counties are part of VISN 22, which 
covers most of the State of New Mexico. VISN 17 covers all of Texas and 
small portion of eastern and southeastern New Mexico. This legislation 
would bring together the final two counties in the southeastern portion 
of New Mexico and include them in VISN 17.
    DAV does not have a resolution specific to VA's VISN system; 
however, we do not have an objection to the bill's intent to address 
regional disparities in access to veterans' health services.

   H.R. 9324, Protecting Veteran Access to Telemedicine Services Act

    This bill aims to permanently extend a pandemic-related exemption 
that allows VA health care professionals to deliver, distribute, and 
dispense medically necessary controlled substances to veterans via 
telemedicine, even if they have not conducted the in-person medical 
examination.
    By removing the requirement for an in-person visit, the bill aims 
to make health care more accessible for veterans who reside in remote 
or underserved areas. Last, this bill would ensure that veterans can 
continue to receive their medications without interruption, even if 
they cannot physically visit a VA facility.
    DAV supports H.R. 9324, in accordance with DAV Resolution No. 42, 
which supports the right of rural veterans to be served by the VA to 
the maximum extent practicable and calls for the VA to overcome 
barriers to care for rural veterans by continuing to improve access to 
telehealth care initiatives.

 H.R. 9427, to direct the VA Secretary to carry out a pilot program to 
provide grants to outpatient mental health facilities for the provision 
of culturally competent, evidence-based mental health care for veterans

    H.R. 9427 would direct the Secretary of Veterans Affairs to carry 
out a pilot program to provide grants to non-VA outpatient mental 
health facilities to ensure the delivery of culturally competent, 
evidence-based mental health care for veterans.
    This bill recognizes the importance and expertise VA provides in 
the delivery of specialized mental health services to veterans. In 
doing so, it highlights the need to ensure high-quality, evidence-based 
care when a veteran is referred to the community for services.
    Although DAV Resolution 224 calls to support program improvement 
and enhanced resources for VA mental health programs and suicide 
prevention to address the mental health needs of veterans and ensure 
they receive high-quality, accessible care, we have concerns with this 
bill. Specifically, that it could potentially weaken the VA's 
integrated health care system, which conflicts with DAV Resolution 403, 
calling for strengthening and protecting the VA health care system.
    Veterans in need of mental health care are eligible for care via 
the Veterans Community Care Program (VCCP) if the VA cannot provide it 
within 20 days or 30 minutes of drive time. This bill would create a 
system parallel to the existing VCCP and introduces a new structure 
with competing eligibility rules. For veterans receiving care through 
the MISSION Act, VA serves as the authorizer of community care when a 
veteran is eligible. For veterans receiving care through the grant, 
VA's role in authorizing community care would be bypassed, which 
eliminates VA as the default provider of care when available in a 
timely and convenient manner. Under this bill, even when VA services 
are readily available, a veteran would be entitled to obtain outside 
care.
    This approach sets a precedent that could extend beyond mental 
health care, potentially leading to a system that is the exact opposite 
of what MISSION intended, i.e., to rely on community resources to 
supplement and not supplant VA care.
    The recent VA Red Team Report strongly advised for VA to expand 
direct-delivered care and reduce community-delivered health care to 
prevent the VA system's collapse. This bill would potentially move in 
the opposite direction.
    If the goal is to reduce wait times for mental health care access 
in VA and VCCP settings, the most effective solution would be to 
increase the number of VA mental health clinicians rather than create a 
parallel system with little oversight and potentially lower standards 
of care. Medical facilities that are not currently participating in the 
VCCP who wish to furnish mental health care to veterans should be 
actively invited to join the VCCP.

               H.R. 9438, No Wrong Door for Veterans Act

    H.R. 9438, the No Wrong Door for Veterans Act, would amend and 
reauthorize the VA Staff Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention 
Grant Program (SSG PGFSP), which supports nonprofit community 
organizations and government agencies working to serve veterans at risk 
of suicide. This grant program utilizes a public health approach and 
combines clinical and community-based interventions with a goal of 
preventing suicide for veterans inside and outside of the VA health 
care system.
    The Fox Grant Program allowed VA to implement a comprehensive 
mental health screening for grantees to measure the effectiveness of 
services. In order to combat veteran suicide and assess program 
outcomes, it is vital to examine data on specific interventions.
    The March 2024 congressionally mandated report, An Interim Report 
on the Provision of Grants through the Staff Sergeant Parker Gordon Fox 
Suicide Prevention Grant Program (SSG Fox SPGP), noted under 
``Measurement Outcomes'' that grantees spent much of the first year, 
since January 2023, building and staffing their programs before 
starting to provide services and screening potential eligible 
individuals.
    Although limited, the data collected from SSG Fox SFGP grantees was 
considered to be beneficial for reporting, program management, and 
evaluation. VA indicated it is using the initial year's program data to 
assess the suitability of benchmarks for future performance standards. 
Over time, VA predicts an increase in available data and the potential 
for more program graduates. The final report will better assess the 
effectiveness, capacity, and the feasibility of expanding grant 
provisions.
    The No Wrong Door for Veterans Act would appear to limit VA in its 
ability to measure Fox Grant recipients who currently evaluate 
participants using both pre and post measurements across relevant 
metrics. Data collection and assessment will help VA make better 
decisions regarding program effectiveness and the needs for future 
resource allocation and we believe it is critical to maintain a robust 
set of metrics and evaluation tools, particularly during the early 
phase of this program.
    The No Wrong Door bill would also implement new access standards 
that enforce a 72-hour deadline for the VA to deliver services after a 
veteran is referred for follow-up care for non-suicidal, non-emergency 
mental or behavioral health. This provision dramatically shortens the 
timeliness standard for VA mental health care for Fox Grantee veterans 
from the current 20-day standard to a mere 72 hours. If the VA fails to 
meet this timeline, the veteran would automatically become eligible for 
non-VA care, even outside of the Veterans Community Care Program, in 
line with the COMPACT Act standard, which ensures that mental health 
care is available anywhere for veterans who are in mental health crisis 
and at imminent risk for suicide. We are concerned that this 
unrealistic and unworkable new standard could undermine VA's efforts to 
provide coordinated mental health care to veterans.
    This provision has the potential to negatively affect the VA health 
care system and the veterans it serves.

 Draft bill to include a representative of the National Association of 
  State Veterans Homes on the VA Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory 
                               Committee

    This draft legislation would require the VA to include a 
representative from the National Association of State Veterans Homes, 
who holds a professional license in nursing home administration, on its 
Geriatrics and Gerontology Advisory Committee (GGAC).
    The VA's GGAC was created in 1980 to address challenges VA faced 
related to caring for a large influx of aging World War II veterans. 
One of the committee's main duties is to assess the capabilities of 
VA's health care facilities to respond with effective and appropriate 
care and services to address the medical, psychological, and social 
needs of older/aging veterans.
    DAV has no specific resolution that addresses who should be 
appointed as a member of the VA's GGAC; however, the experience and 
expertise of a representative from the National Association of State 
Veterans Homes could be beneficial to the Committee's work and we have 
no objection to this draft bill moving forward.

 Draft bill to require that non-citizen appointees to positions in the 
      Veterans Health Administration are subjected to background 
                   investigations prior to employment

    This draft legislation would require that non-citizen appointees 
undergo a background investigation prior to their employment with the 
VA. Currently, a non-citizen appointee may be hired by VA on a 
temporary basis under title 38, United State Code.
    While DAV has no resolution that addresses VA hiring practices for 
non-citizen appointees, according to VA, these appointees are subject 
to background investigations. Furthermore, as part of VA's Personnel 
Security and Suitability Program, all employees, including non-
citizens, are required to meet the necessary security and suitability 
standards before being hired by VA.

     Draft bill, the Enhancing Faith-Based Support for Veterans Act

    This draft legislation would allow a VA chaplain to send a 
veteran's contact information to a non-VA religious or faith-based 
organization. Once the VA chaplain has completed a spiritual 
assessment, the veteran must approve/elect to have their contact 
information shared with a non-VA religious or faith-based organization. 
The spiritual assessment includes the medical treatment plan of the 
veteran as well as their personal spiritual information.
    While DAV has no resolution that addresses this matter, we have no 
objection to ensure that veterans have access to a wide range of 
supportive services, including those offered by faith-based 
organizations.

         Draft bill, Safeguarding VA's Healthcare Workforce Act

    This draft bill would establish a 3-year pilot program that allows 
the VA to fill vacant shifts at its medical facilities with non-
Department health care providers once the number of vacant shifts 
reaches a minimum threshold, predetermined by the Secretary.
    This initiative could help address staffing shortages and ensure 
that veterans receive timely and quality care. By leveraging non-
Department health care providers, this program could improve veterans' 
access to care, especially in underserved areas.
    That said, it is important that VA continue to work diligently to 
ensure appropriate hiring and retention practices are exercised and 
that internal VA staffing levels continue to be strengthened.
    DAV supports this draft bill in accordance with DAV Resolution No. 
403, which calls for VA to provide timely and convenient access to care 
for enrolled veterans, and for VA to remain the primary provider and 
the coordinator of care, while continuing to optimize the use of 
community care networks to fill in gaps, particularly in rural and 
remote areas.

  Draft bill, to include adaptive prostheses and terminal devices for 
   sports and other recreational activities in the medical services 
  furnished to eligible veterans by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs

    This draft bill would include adaptive prostheses and terminal 
devices for sports and other recreational activities in the medical 
services furnished to eligible veterans by the Secretary of Veterans 
Affairs. A terminal prosthetic device is one that works by means of 
cables to create voluntary opening and closing for managing a grip.
    Amending current medical-services law would be a significant step 
in enhancing the quality of life for many veterans. The proposed 
amendment would ensure that veterans have access to adaptive prostheses 
specifically designed for sports and recreational activities. This can 
include specialized limbs for running, swimming, cycling, and other 
activities. By providing these adaptive devices, the amendment aims to 
promote physical activity and overall well-being among ill and injured 
veterans, helping them to engage in sports and recreational activities 
that they enjoy and need to maintain their fitness and independence.
    The amendment would establish guidelines for veterans to be 
eligible for these devices, guaranteeing access through the VA for 
those in need. VA would not only provide such devices, but also offer 
training and support to help veterans effectively use their new 
prostheses. Furthermore, the amendment could stimulate the exploration 
and creation of new adaptive technologies, guaranteeing veterans have 
access to state-of-the-art prosthetic and adaptive devices.
    DAV supports this draft bill in accordance with DAV Resolution No. 
429, which supports sufficient funding for VA prosthetics and sensory 
aids service and timely delivery of prosthetic items, promoting 
physical activity and overall well-being among veterans, helping them 
to engage in sports and recreational activities that they enjoy.

      Draft bill, Service Dogs Assisting Veterans Act (SAVES Act)

    The SAVES Act would establish a 5-year pilot program to require the 
Secretary of Veterans Affairs to award grants to nonprofit 
organizations, accredited by Assistance Dogs International or the 
International Guide Dog Federation, to assist in providing service dogs 
to eligible veterans. The bill would also provide for the training of 
the dogs to assist veterans with various mental health and physical 
conditions. This bill would also provide each veteran who receives a 
dog through the grant program a commercially available veterinary 
insurance policy for the service dog.
    DAV supports this draft bill in accordance with DAV Resolution No. 
590, which supports a consistent benefit for service dogs, to include 
that any veteran for whom a service dog is prescribed receives the dog 
at no cost; there is reimbursement for any follow-up training deemed 
appropriate; and a veterinary benefit provided for the life of that 
service dog.

 Draft bill to make improvements relating to conflicts of interest for 
            certain Department of Veterans Affairs employees

    This draft bill seeks to make improvements relating to conflicts of 
interest for certain VA employees.
    Currently, title 18, United States Code, Sec.  208 addresses 
conflicts of interest for Federal employees, including those at the VA. 
This law prohibits Federal employees from participating personally and 
substantially in any government matter that could affect their own 
financial interests or those of their family members, business 
partners, or organizations they are affiliated with. This law ensures 
that Federal employees, including VA researchers, maintain the highest 
standards of integrity and avoid any actions that could compromise 
their objectivity.
    In the past, researchers could freely discuss the science with both 
VA and their academic affiliate without conflict, except for the 
funding and research agreement. Recognizing their erroneous historical 
interpretation and the potential legal risks, the VA Office of General 
Counsel (OGC) concluded that science, funding, and research agreements 
are all crucial aspects of the matter. Due to this OGC decision, 
employees working on the matter or research topic must secure a waiver 
prior to proceeding.
    Initially planned for March, the policy's enforcement was deferred 
by VA until at least September 30, 2024. The absence of a policy for 
pursuing waivers at VA significantly impacts thousands of researchers 
by substantially delaying approval of research projects, as they 
require approval from both OGC and local VAMCs.
    Although DAV does not have a resolution specifically addressing 
conflict of interest matters for Federal/VA employees, research is a 
critical part of VA's mission of serving our Nation's ill and injured 
veterans. For these reasons, we suggest that measures taken to address 
this issue should focus on maintaining quality researchers and 
employees. VA must ensure that their work can continue without undue 
administrative burdens.
    This concludes my testimony on behalf of DAV. I am pleased to 
answer questions you or members of the Subcommittee may have.

                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


         Prepared Statement of U.S. Office of Government Ethics

    The U.S. Office of Government Ethics (OGE) is pleased to provide 
its views on proposed legislation to amend title 38, U.S. Code, to 
provide exceptions to the criminal conflict of interest laws, 18 U.S.C. 
Sec. Sec.  203, 205, and 208, for employees of the Department of 
Veterans Affairs (VA) who concurrently hold outside positions with 
certain outside employers. OGE has not reviewed and takes no position 
on other pending legislation being considered at this hearing.
    OGE appreciates VA's and the Subcommittee's ongoing work to address 
the complex balance between recruitment and retention of qualified VA 
medical personnel and the need to protect government processes from 
abuse and conflicts of interest. OGE is concerned, however, that the 
draft legislation does not effectively balance these competing 
equities. As written, the draft legislation would disturb the carefully 
balanced conflict of interest program that has existed for the past 60 
years by providing overly broad exemptive relief, reducing oversight 
and transparency in the process of waiving the conflict of interest 
laws, and creating inconsistent treatment between dually appointed VA 
scientists and other scientists. More importantly, OGE believes that 
the existing legal framework is flexible enough to provide exemptive 
relief in many cases in which there is a legitimately low risk of an 
actual conflict of interest.

I. Current Law and Effect of Proposed Legislation

    Congress enacted 18 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  203, 205, and 208 as part of 
omnibus legislation updating the Federal bribery, conflict of interest, 
and graft laws in 1962.\1\ These laws were promulgated carefully, with 
the goals of not only strengthening limitations on conflicts but also 
ensuring that the government could access qualified experts from 
outside government, particularly scientists.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Modern Bribery, Graft and Conflict of Interest Law, P.L. 87-
849, 76 Stat. 1119 (1962). Additional conflict of interest laws are 
found in chapter 11, title 18, of the United States Code. Employees of 
the executive branch are also covered by comprehensive standards of 
conduct found in 5 C.F.R. part 2635.
    \2\ H. Rep. 748, 87th Cong., 1st Sess. 4 (1961); S. Rep. No. 2213, 
87th Cong., 2d Sess. (1962).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Section 208 provides that an employee may not participate in any 
particular matter in which, to the employee's knowledge, the employee, 
a spouse, minor child, general partner, or any ``organization in which 
[the employee] is serving as officer, director, trustee, general 
partner or employee, or any person or organization with whom [the 
employee] is negotiating or has any arrangement concerning prospective 
employment'' has a financial interest.\3\ While the prohibition is 
broad, it provides several authorities that allow OGE or an agency to 
waive insubstantial conflicts of interest. These authorities include 
personalized waivers\4\ and regulatory exemptions.\5\ The draft 
legislation would change this framework by creating two special 
exemptions at 38 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  7302(f)(1) and 7303(e)(1) that would 
allow dually appointed VA employees to participate in health profession 
education and research particular matters affecting the financial 
interests of their outside employers--so long as they do not make a 
final, binding determination related to that matter--notwithstanding 18 
U.S.C. Sec.  208(a).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208(a). For OGE regulations interpreting and 
providing guidance on Sec.  208, see 5 C.F.R. pt. 2640.
    \4\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208(b)(1). Agencies must confer with OGE prior 
to issuance of an individualized waiver whenever practicable, provide 
OGE with a copy of each executed waiver, and make each executed waiver 
available to the public upon request. OGE is committed to reviewing 
waivers as fast as possible while meeting its responsibility to 
objectively review the facts of each case to ensure the statutory 
standard is met.
    \5\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208(b)(2).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Section 205 provides that an employee may not represent an outside 
party before the Federal Government in relation to any particular 
matter in which the United States has a direct and substantial 
interest.\6\ Section 203 provides that an employee may not receive any 
compensation for representational services provided by themselves or 
another person in any particular matter in which the United States has 
a direct and substantial interest.\7\ Although these two laws apply to 
all government employees, there are several exemptions, including 
exemptions for intermittent and temporary appointees.\8\ These 
exemptions balance the need for specialized expertise from outside the 
government with the need to prevent these employees from using their 
positions to unfairly advantage their outside employer. The draft 
legislation would change this framework by creating two special 
exemptions at 38 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  7302(f)(2) and 7303(e)(2), allowing 
dually appointed VA employees to lobby the government on behalf of 
their outside employers on health profession education and research 
matters, as well as receive compensation for those communications, 
notwithstanding 18 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  203 and 205.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  205(a)(2).
    \7\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  203(a).
    \8\ 18 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  203(c), (e); 18 U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  205(c), 
(f).

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II. Concerns Regarding Proposed Legislation

    OGE is concerned that the draft legislative exemptions to 18 U.S.C. 
Sec. Sec.  203, 205, and 208 are overbroad and lack the necessary 
protections against substantial conflicts of interest found in current 
law. Unlike current exemptions to 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208, which are only 
available when a conflict of interest is insubstantial, remote, or 
inconsequential,\9\ the proposed legislation would allow an employee to 
participate in any health profession education or research particular 
matter regardless of how substantial the potential financial gain to 
their home institution--potentially including multi-million-dollar 
contracts, grants, cooperative agreements, and other financial 
assistance arrangements. In addition, by enacting exemptions to 18 
U.S.C. Sec. Sec.  203 and 205, dually appointed VA employees would be 
free to both lobby for benefits on behalf of their outside employer and 
participate in the decision to grant those same benefits in their 
official role, so long as they were not the final signatory. Without 
necessary safeguards, dually appointed VA researchers could be placed 
in the position of making decisions not because it is the right thing 
to do, but because it advantages their home institution.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ See 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208(b)(1)-(2).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OGE is also concerned that the draft legislation would remove 
important checks and balances that ensure that waivers and exemptions 
are done in an accountable and transparent way. For example, agencies 
are currently required to consult with OGE prior to issuing individual 
waivers when practicable and must make those waivers public upon 
request.\10\ Likewise, OGE provides centralized review and issuance of 
regulatory exemptions to 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208.\11\ OGE's involvement 
ensures that those waivers and exemptions are consistent with the 
statutory criteria and that these authorities are not subject to abuse. 
The proposed legislation does not contain similar checks and balances 
as the existing conflicts of interest statutes.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208(d)(1).
    \11\ 18 U.S.C. Sec.  208(b)(2).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    OGE is likewise concerned that the draft legislation would treat 
dually appointed VA researchers differently than other VA employees and 
other scientists and medical professionals that work for other 
agencies.\12\ Avoiding inconsistent treatment and a proliferation of 
``nonuniform ad hoc exemptions'' was one of the principal reasons 
Congress established a single, uniform set of conflict of interest 
rules.\13\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ Congress recently enacted a limited exemption to 18 U.S.C. 
Sec.  209 for dually appointed VA researchers. See Consolidated 
Appropriations Act, 2023, P.L. 117-328, Sec.  182, 136 Stat. 5436 
(2023) (codified at 38 U.S.C. Sec.  7382(b)). While that provision has 
no effect on the views in this statement, OGE notes that there are more 
safeguards that apply to that provision than are found in this draft 
legislation, including a requirement that the Secretary authorize use 
of the exemption in writing.
    \13\ H. Rep. No. 748 at 14.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Finally, OGE believes that the legislation may be unnecessary. In 
instances in which a conflict of interest arising from a health 
professional education or research particular matter is insubstantial, 
remote, or inconsequential, the VA can issue an individualized waiver 
or may be able to work with OGE to promulgate an appropriately scoped 
regulatory exemption. Likewise, dually appointed VA employees serving 
only intermittently with the government may be able to rely on a pre-
existing exemption or receive an individualized waiver of 18 U.S.C. 
Sec. Sec.  203 and 205 to communicate on a grant or contract with the 
United States if the VA Secretary has determined it is in the public 
interest.
    OGE thanks the Subcommittee for the opportunity to present views 
related to this draft legislation. OGE stands ready to work with the 
Subcommittee and with VA to identify and implement procedures that 
ensure the VA can continue to retain qualified VA researchers, while 
also limiting the influence of conflicts of interest in the research 
and education process. We believe that an approach is possible that 
will appropriately balance the needs to secure qualified medical 
professionals while protecting Government processes from abuse and 
conflicts of interest.
    Please do not hesitate to contact us if we may be of additional 
assistance.

                                 

Prepared Statement of American Federation of Government Employees, AFL-
                                  CIO

    Chairwoman Miller-Meeks, Ranking Member Brownley, and Members of 
the Subcommittee:

    The American Federation of Government Employees, AFL-CIO (AFGE) and 
its National Veterans Affairs Council (NVAC) appreciate the opportunity 
to submit a statement for the record for the September 11 House 
Veterans' Affairs Health subcommittee legislative hearing. AFGE 
represents more than 750,000 Federal and District of Columbia 
government employees, 304,000 of whom are Department of Veterans 
Affairs (VA) employees. AFGE's positions on several of the bills being 
considered are below:

H.R. 9146, Ensuring Continuity in Veterans Health Act (Rep. Franklin)

    H.R. 9146 requires the Secretary to include ``continuity of care'' 
as one of the criteria used to determine when private care would be in 
the best medical interest (BMI) of a veteran. We oppose this provision 
because it will make it harder for VA to bring veterans back to VA from 
private care in instances when private care is no longer in the best 
interest of the veteran by requiring that continuity of care in the 
community be considered as a criterion in determining medical best 
interest. This would hamper VA's efforts to reverse excessive 
privatization by bringing back more veterans to direct care after 
receiving private for-profit care. VA already has flexibility under the 
current statute to consider continuity of care if it is in the best 
interest of the veteran. But adding it as a required criterion in 
determining best interest would limit VA's ability to decide that 
transferring a veteran back to the VA from private care is truly in the 
best interest of that veteran. This would particularly impact the VA's 
ability to rein in costly private care following emergency care by 
transferring veterans to VA hospitals after a veteran has been 
stabilized. In a recent Hospital Consumer Assessment of Healthcare 
Providers and Systems (HCAHPS) survey conducted by the Centers for 
Medicare & Medicaid Services, nearly 80 percent of VA medical 
facilities received a four or five-star rating compared to only 40 
percent of non--VA hospitals. This only adds to an already large body 
of evidence that VA provides higher quality care to veterans than 
private providers. It therefore is neither in the best interest of the 
veteran nor the taxpayer to legislate keeping veterans out of VA where 
they receive high-quality care specifically targeted to their needs at 
lower cost than private for-profit care.

H.R. 6330, the Veterans Sentinel Act

    H.R. 6330 establishes an Office of Mental Health and Suicide 
Prevention, a pilot program under which the Secretary establishes a 
working group to collect and analyze data regarding on-campus suicides 
and on-campus attempted suicides. AFGE supports efforts to improve 
suicide prevention by collecting data on direct care suicides and 
conducting root cause analysis. However, the bill should be amended to 
include parallel data collection and analysis for suicides that happen 
when veterans are served at non-VA facilities.

Pilot program to fill vacancies with non-departmental staff

    This bill creates a pilot program under which the Secretary would 
contract out to fill vacancies at a medical facility with non-
department health care providers. This would create a new program that 
fills vacancies with non-department health care workers in addition to 
the Integrated Critical Staffing Program (ICSP) for temporary 
contractors, which the VA already has in place. The ICSP has already 
created a troubling precedent for outsourcing hiring at the expense of 
permanent staff. In recent months, VA directed medical centers to 
remain FTE-neutral, a policy it applied to permanent workers but not to 
contractors. VA has admitted that it needs an additional 5,000 FTE in 
Fiscal Year 2025 to meet its direct care needs. If VA continues rely on 
this privatization accounting scheme to hire contractors to meet these 
needs and not permanent workers, contract workers will effectively 
crowd out funding for permanent FTE. Rather than further expanding 
costly temporary staffing, the VA should pass a comprehensive 
recruitment and retention bill that addresses problematic hiring and 
compensation policies.

Veterans' Mental Health Access Act (Chairman Bost)

    The Veterans' Mental Health Access Act would create a pilot for a 
new program to create non-VA outpatient mental health. This program 
would provide grants to nonprofit organizations that have operated at 
least one outpatient mental health facility in the United States for a 
continuous period of at least 3 years. AFGE opposes creating a parallel 
private mental health program that supplants VA's direct care system 
rather than supplement it when veterans cannot reasonably access VA 
care. Veterans are already eligible for private care if the VA cannot 
provide it within 20 days or 30 minutes of drive time. VA, however, 
must authorize this care. This bill would undermine the direct care 
system by creating a parallel private program that veterans would 
access without VA authorization. This would erode the integrity of the 
VA's integrated delivery system which depends on VA to coordinate 
veterans' care. Finally, the bill does not include quality or licensing 
standards for these providers. Rather than create a private, standard-
free program for mental health outpatient treatment, Congress should 
invest in direct care mental health by funding additional VA mental 
health providers.

H.R. 9438, the No Wrong Door for Veterans Act,

    H.R. 9438 would amend and reauthorize the VA Staff Sergeant Parker 
Gordon Fox Suicide Prevention Grant Program which supports nonprofit 
community organizations and government agencies that identify at-risk 
veterans and provide an array of suicide prevention interventions such 
as suicide risk education and peer support services. The focus of the 
program is on supplementing VA's clinical program with community-based 
prevention programs.
    H.R. 9438 introduces a new 72-hour deadline for the VA to provide 
services after a veteran is referred for follow-up care. If the VA 
can't meet this deadline, the veteran becomes eligible for private 
care. This drastically reduces the wait time for VA mental health care 
from the current 20 days (under the MISSION Act) to just 3 days. This 
new standard is impossible for the VA to consistently meet. We have 
opposed other provisions like this. Again, Congress should instead fund 
additional VA mental health providers.
    AFGE looks forward to working with members of the health 
subcommittee to advance legislation that strengthens the VA workforce 
to improve veteran care.

 Prepared Statement of American Psychological Association, Association 
of VA Psychologist Leaders, Association of VA Social Workers, National 
    Association of Veterans Affairs Physicians and Dentists, Nurses 
 Organization of Veterans Affairs, Veterans Healthcare Policy Institute
 
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                    Prepared Statement of Jason Crow
                    
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   Prepared Statement of National Association of State Veterans Homes
   
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