[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EXAMINING TRANSITIONING
SERVICEMEMBERS EXPERIENCE
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FRIDAY, AUGUST 23, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-76
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
57-071 WASHINGTON : 2026
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO,
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
Jon Clark, Staff Director
Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman
NANCY MACE, South Carolina MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
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FRIDAY, AUGUST 23, 2024
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................ 1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member......................... 4
WITNESSES
Panel I
Mr. Duane Honeycutt, Executive Director, Milwaukee VA Regional
Office, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs.................... 6
Accompanied by:
Mr. Nick Pamperin, Executive Director, Veteran Readiness and
Employment, Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S.
Department of Veterans Affairs
Ms. Melissa Cohen, Executive Director, Outreach, Transition,
and Economic Development, Veterans Benefits
Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs
Panel II
Mr. Joe Quackenboss, Veteran Service Officer, Trempealeau County. 17
Mr. Dustin Schultz, Veteran Specialist, Western Technical College 18
Ms. Danielle Luba, Commander, The Veterans of Foreign Wars of the
U.S............................................................ 20
Ms. Kaytlyn Brown, Student Veteran, Western Technical College.... 21
Mr. Adrian Moreno, Student Veteran, University of Wisconsin La
Crosse......................................................... 22
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements Of Witnesses
Mr. Duane Honeycutt Prepared Statement........................... 37
Mr. Joe Quackenboss Prepared Statement........................... 42
Mr. Dustin Schultz Prepared Statement............................ 43
Ms. Danielle Luba Prepared Statement............................. 44
Ms. Kaytlyn Brown Prepared Statement............................. 44
Mr. Adrian Moreno Prepared Statement............................. 46
Statements For The Record
Disabled American Veterans Prepared Statement.................... 49
EXAMINING TRANSITIONING
SERVICEMEMBERS EXPERIENCE
----------
FRIDAY, AUGUST 23, 2024
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
U.S. House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m.,
University of Wisconsin La Crosse (UWL) Cleary Alumni & Friends
Center, Great Hall, 615 East Avenue N., La Crosse, WI, Hon.
Derek Van Orden, (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Van Orden, Grothman, and Levin.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Van Orden. The subcommittee will come to order. Good
morning.
First of all, I want to thank everybody for joining us in
this field hearing for the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
of the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Veterans
Affairs.
To the best of our knowledge this is the first official
congressional hearing that has ever taken place in the Third
congressional District of the State of Wisconsin.
I really want to thank you all for coming here, and there
will be more of this. I want everybody that is here to be more
connected with what is taking place in DC, and I sure as hell
want everyone in DC to be more connected with what is taking
place here, and this is a function of that. Thank you so much.
I am Derek Van Orden. It is my pleasure to not only serve
as your Congressman but also to serve as the chairman of the
subcommittee, and I set the pace in this Congress that this is
not a bipartisan committee. This is a nonpartisan committee and
I am very proud of Ranking Member Levin and the staff are
strictly adhering to this policy, and there is certainly enough
garbage politically taking place around the country right now
and there is absolutely no place for politics at all when we
are discussing our veterans.
Thank you very much, Mike. I appreciate that greatly.
I also want to thank the students, faculty, staff at the
University of Wisconsin La Crosse for being here at this field
hearing.
Chancellor Beeby, I do not know if he had a chance to be
here but thank you very much for having us here. David Tubb,
Nate Wolfe from the Veterans Center, thank you for hosting us
in your space.
This is a unique space around the country. You guys do an
incredible job for supporting our veterans so thank you so much
for that.
I also want to thank the Greater Driftless Area businesses
for hosting our staff during our stay here. I believe that they
have consumed their body's weight of cheese curds, which I
appreciate greatly.
Mike just got here because he was down in Chicago. There
was something going on there. I did not read the papers this
morning. Apparently, there was something going on in Chicago,
but it is great to have him up here.
It is wonderful to see a school like this integrating
veterans who have served our country and protected us into
their campus culture and that does not happen everywhere around
the country, and so I deeply appreciate that.
Again, I would like to thank Ranking Member Levin. He is
not just the ranking member of this committee. He is actually a
friend of mine. We did the first subcommittee hearing--that was
the first one in Congress at all--was at Mike's district.
He represents Oceanside, California. They have the highest
population of veterans homelessness in the Nation and it is
Mike's number-one priority to help alleviate veterans'
homelessness and he makes a very, very strong effort in doing
so, and so thank you for coming to my neighborhood.
This summer it is great to have everybody here in the State
of Wisconsin. We are the largest producer of cheese. You can
take notes if you want. Cheese, cranberries, horseradish,
ginseng, prepared meats, bovine--dairy bovine genetics. I will
tell you what that means later. Of course, mink pelts. Mink
pelts.
If anybody is in the market for bovine genetics or mink
pelts, please see my staff after the subcommittee hearing.
I want to thank you all, especially Mike, for traveling
here to the great State of Wisconsin and we are going to listen
to the people from Wisconsin and also from the Veterans Affairs
Committee to try to make sure that we can understand what the
heck is going on.
Before we get rolling, I am just going to ask everybody
that has served this Nation in their uniform please stand up.
Holy beans.
[Applause.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. Who is watching the world right
now?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Van Orden. It is a valid question. I see my commander
here, Sarah. Doug is here from Monroe County. Awesome guy. We
have an active duty service member. He is a specialist. I do
not know if he wants to be on camera or not but he is around
here somewhere. Pretty good dude. I know his dad, who was a
Marine. He joined the Army. His dad is mad at him still.
I also want to thank the staff. There is so much work that
goes into having these, especially outside of DC, so I want to
thank the majority staff. I want to thank the minority staff
for coming out here.
It is just amazing. They leave their families to come out
here to make sure that you guys understand what is going on.
If any of you are having issues with the Veterans Affairs
Administration, and I am your Congressman, or if Glenn is your
Congressman--Congressman Grothman--I am going to introduce him
in a second--I want you to--my staff, raise your hand. Hands.
Okay. If you are having a problem with the Veterans Affairs
Administration, everything from getting enrolled into ID Me,
which we have got some groups here, or if you are having
problems with claims and disabilities and stuff we are here for
you today but we will also be here for you tomorrow and the
next day and the next day and the next, okay, and that is an
open invitation.
The format for today's event is set up to allow you guys to
see what proceedings in Washington, DC, look like. It is not a
town hall but, again, we have just identified everybody from
the staff. If you have issues please bring them up with them or
me following, or with Ranking Member Levin.
My top priority as a member of the Veterans Affairs
Committee is suicide prevention, and as the chairman of the
subcommittee I have decided to take a novel approach to doing
this by ensuring that our service members' transition from the
military to civilian life is successful.
We have a program called the Transition Assistance Program,
or TAP, in order to help with this, and I have chosen to focus
on TAP because those 24 months after someone leaves the service
is, unfortunately, when a lot of our veterans decide to commit
suicide and that is because in a blink of eye they lose their
rank and their uniform. They lose their social status. They
lose authority and anywhere from half to all of their paycheck
and it is incredibly stressful.
I decided to use our authority as Members of Congress to
make the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) take
alternative and innovative approaches to preventing veteran
suicide as what they are doing is simply--it is just not
working.
Congress has provided over $120 billion since 9/11, $16.5
billion in this last Fiscal Year for veteran suicide prevention
and the veteran suicide rate is increasing. What the VA is
doing is not working. That is an objective fact.
This is another way to approach this problem set and I say
make because, unfortunately, many times the Veterans Affairs
Administration drags its feet when it comes to institutional
change and they are not alone.
The U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) has not been
exceptionally helpful in this matter either and no department,
agency, or individual will ever be given any slack by this
subcommittee if they are protecting their institutions at the
expense of our veterans.
If you read the papers around here you know that I can get
a bit salty when I am adamant about an issue and this is no
different.
Getting TAP right is an upstream solution that will
hopefully mitigate so many of the negative issues that faces
our vets today and potentially help Ranking Member Levin's
number-one issue, keeping them off the street to begin with.
What we are going to do here is we are going to look at TAP
very specifically. Having served for 26 years myself I know how
difficult the transition to being a civilian can be.
I introduced the TAP--legislation to enhance the TAP
program, which is very well intended but, unfortunately, it
does not always meet the mark.
A recent U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) study
found that more than 4,300 at-risk service members did not
receive the warm handover assistance that was needed--4,300 of
our brothers and sisters--and too many of them were falling
through the cracks.
We will be doing a better job to make sure that there is a
concrete plan set from when they take off that uniform to put
on a suit or if they put on a tool belt to get to work.
My bill increases the accountability within the DOD and
requires more data collection within TAP. My bill also refine
changes the committee made in the past the DOD did not follow.
Again, they are not being helpful.
No two service members have the same life experience as
their career in the military and we should do all we can to
help personalize the transition experience that we provide to
each of them to meet their needs, not the department's needs.
We are here today to listen, and I am pleased that we have
a great panel of witnesses with us today to talk about the
transition from the perspective of western Wisconsin.
Our panelists today do not do the work they do for money or
for fame but to help our veterans, and I want to thank the
panelists who are here today and I look forward to today's
discussion.
Once again, I thank Ranking Member Levin for attending this
field hearing here in the beautiful Third District of the State
of Wisconsin. I yield back.
I now yield to the ranking member for his opening remarks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Levin. Well, thank you so much to Chairman Van Orden
for having me. Thank you to everyone for your hospitality. I
understand if I am here I have to cheer for the Packers, not
the Vikings. That is what I have been told. Thank you also to
my colleague Glenn Grothman.
I am Mike Levin from Southern California. I have the great
honor to represent Camp Pendleton. I do not know if we have any
Marines here but it has been my privilege and honor to serve
these last 6 years and, you know, I can tell you when you get
to Congress you have the opportunity to serve on a variety of
different committees, a lot of the committees that you probably
see on cable news, people screaming and yelling at each other,
not really getting anything done, not being productive.
Your Congress member, Derek Van Orden, after his honorable
service as a SEAL decided to continue that service in the House
of Representatives and made a choice to be part of the House
Veterans Affairs Committee, which is probably the last bastion
of--you can call it nonpartisanship. You can call it
camaraderie. You can call it, you know, actually trying to get
something done for people rather than just point fingers and
yell.
Sometimes we all point fingers at the VA. I am sorry about
that. We do it--at least we do it in a bipartisan way, in a
friendly way most of the time.
Look, we are making great progress and I am really hopeful
that working with the chairman and working with my colleagues
that the staff will continue to work in a very collaborative
way as well to get major veterans legislation passed this year.
There is no reason we cannot do it. We have to prioritize
it. We are making great progress as it pertains to veteran
homelessness. I was very excited to work with VA, U.S.
Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD), and Treasury a
recent change, a very big rule for veterans who are on the
brink of homelessness or have become homeless.
If you are--if you get disability compensation that used to
be counted as income toward getting housing assistance. That is
no longer the case. This is a very big deal.
The Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring our
Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act is another
very big deal, and as I was making the turn into La Crosse I
saw a big old billboard for the PACT Act and wanted to ask the
chairman how he pulled that off. I want one of those billboards
in Oceanside, California.
I know that we are here to talk about TAP and I just want
to agree with what the chairman said. There is no one size fits
all for transitioning a service member. It simply does not
work.
We have to individually tailor TAP for each service
member's needs as best we can. I have had the honor to go and
participate in the TAP classes at Camp Pendleton and they throw
so much at our transitioning service members all at once in so
many acronyms, so many programs.
They expect everybody to know everything after, you know,
basically feeding it all to them. It is like cramming for an
exam, right.
We have some bills that, hopefully, would help. There is
one that I introduced called the Transition Improvement by
Estimating Risk, or TIER Act, which will add new screening
criteria to better understand the risk factors each
transitioning service member faces.
It was passed in the House National Defense Authorization
Act so we passed that in a bipartisan way but then it goes to
the Senate and we know that--I see Senator Baldwin's staff here
so I cannot say too many bad things about the Senate--but that
is not always where good things get done. We need help with
that.
Ranking Member Takano has the Ensuring Veterans Smooth
Transition Act that would automatically enroll transitioning
veterans into VA health care. I think that is a very good idea.
We have been, you know, working in a bipartisan way,
nonpartisan way, to address the problems with TAP and I think
your Congress member is spot on in the desire for us to work
together and to improve things. We have to. We are going to
continue to do it and I hope we can get some stuff done this
year.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back. Go Packers.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Now, he asked me, should you cheer for
the Packers or the Vikings. Now you know we are working in a
truly bipartisan manner because he would have opened up with--
he would have opened up with a skull this would have been a----
Mr. Levin. I would have said Go Rams but nobody here would
have liked that. They would not--throw me out of here.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
I will now introduce the witness panel. Our witnesses for
the first panel are from the Department of Veterans Affairs--
from the Department of Veterans Affairs include Mr. Duane
Honeycutt, executive director of the Milwaukee VA regional
office, who is accompanied by Mr. Nick Pamperin, executive
director of Veterans Readiness and Employment (VR&E), and Ms.
Melissa Cohen, executive director of outreach, transition and
economics.
I would ask the individuals to please stand and raise their
hands.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth?
[Witnesses are sworn.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much. The record will reflect
that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
Please take your seat. In accordance with the Committee
Rule 5(e) I ask unanimous consent that Representative Glenn
Grothman from the great State of Wisconsin be permitted to
participate in today's subcommittee hearing.
Hearing no objections, we will proceed.
Mr. Honeycutt, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to
deliver your testimony on behalf of the VA witnesses.
STATEMENT OF DUANE HONEYCUTT
Mr. Honeycutt. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin,
and distinguished members of the subcommittee, I appreciate the
opportunity to appear before you today to discuss transitioning
service members' experience with the Department of Veterans
Affairs and the services and benefits available to them.
Accompanying me today is Melissa Cohen, executive director
of outreach, transition and economic development, and Nick
Pamperin, executive director of veteran readiness and
employment.
Within VA our focus is on increasing transparency,
improving collaboration, and keeping veterans at the center of
everything we do. The VR&E benefit is truly one of the most
life transformative programs for our veterans that VA has.
The Milwaukee VR&E division comprised of three VR&E out-
based offices--Eau Claire, Green Bay and Madison--as well as
the Vet Success on Campus program at the University of
Wisconsin, Milwaukee, the VR&E benefit is truly one of the most
life transformative programs our veterans have.
At the Milwaukee VA regional office, or RO, we have focused
on positive veteran outcomes, communication with our partners
about VR&E benefits and outreach. Locational rehabilitation
counselors have already achieved a positive outcome for 166
veterans this Fiscal Year of which 141 have received an
employment outcome.
Of those 25 have reached maximum rehabilitation gain, which
means the veteran participant has reached full employability
potential based on the limitations of their disabilities.
Potential like Darren, a marine from Milwaukee who shared,
``Peng, my VR&E counselor, guided me straight into a vocational
field appropriate for my life experience. Her motivation pushed
me to do better than I believed I could. I completed my degree
and began a new construction safety manager career. My service-
connected disability had limited my future earning potential.
Peng facilitated a plan for myself and my family to move
forward.''
We cannot be fully successful without the support of our
partners. The Milwaukee RO regularly provides training and
monthly briefings to county veteran service officers and
veteran service organization partners about all aspects of RO
operations including VR&E.
In addition to assisting veterans who are actually seeking
employment the Milwaukee RO collaborates with Federal, State,
and county and city partners, and in this Fiscal Year the
Milwaukee RO assisted veterans with job placement into 20
Federal, three State, three county, and six city positions.
We also want to ensure we are doing our best to outreach to
veterans themselves. The Milwaukee VR&E division has taken a
proactive role in presenting virtual meetings and events open
to veterans throughout the State.
The VR&E division continues its active involvement with the
Department of Workforce Development. In Fiscal Year 2024 we
have had over 1,214 VR&E applicants, the most claims the VR&E
division in Milwaukee has ever processed.
The Milwaukee RO maintains a strong outreach presence
across the State of Wisconsin including to transitioning
service members.
During Fiscal Year 2023 the RO participated in 14 Reserve
and Guard outreach events and five thus far in Fiscal Year
2024, assisting veterans and transitioning service members at
events such as resource fairs and Yellow Ribbon programs
throughout the State.
I want to express my appreciation for your continued
support and continue to improve our service to transitioning
our Nation's veterans, their families, their caregivers and
survivors.
VA remains committed to increasing transparency and
continued collaboration with you and our stakeholders.
Chairman, this concludes my statement. My colleagues and I
would be happy to answer any questions to you or any other
members of the subcommittee may have.
Thank you.
[The Prepared Statement Of Duane Honeycutt Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields back.
The chair now recognizes Ms. Cohen for 5 minutes for her
testimony, and the written testimony of Mr. Honeycutt will be
entered into the hearing record.
Well, I guess we will not be doing that, Ms. Cohen. You
guys all got together ahead of time. All right.
Well, I will now proceed to a question and ask the members
and witnesses to please respect the 5-minute rule. Actually, I
am not going to ask you. I am telling you. I am shutting the
microphone off at 5 minutes. Sorry, that is the senior chief in
me. Anyone in the Navy gets that.
I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes to
question witnesses.
Mr. Levin. Well, thank you, Chairman. I got a readout of
the annual VA military civilian transition summit and one thing
that concerned me was that very little--at least as I
understand, very little was discussed about the Veteran
Readiness and Employment, or VR&E, program.
This has been a underutilized program for my five-plus
years in the Congress and I have been trying to figure out why
that is and how we can improve.
I think the role that the program plays with service
members transitioning out of the military due to an illness or
injury is incredibly important. It provides something called
IDES, Integrated Disability Evaluation System, counselors that
can help transitioning service members with automatic
enrollment. Again, I think that is important if they are being
discharged due to illness or injury.
Mr. Honeycutt, how does the VA ensure awareness of the VR&E
program and IDES counselors located on military installations?
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you for that question. I believe Ms.
Cohen would be able to provide a complete response.
Ms. Cohen. Thank you for the question.
We make transitioning service members, first and foremost,
aware of VR&E in our TAP course. We have module four. It is
within getting career ready. It is an 80-minute course.
Subsequent to that we provide one-on-one benefit advisor
appointments. A new initiative we are starting is that you
can--we show a Quick Response (QR) code during your TAP course
so you can make the appointment right there during TAP so you
can talk with a benefit advisor individually.
Also Solid Start. We are going to reach out to veterans
three times in that first year and we stand ready to answer
VR&E-related questions and to--we have access to what services
they have accessed or not and can share VR&E information there.
We also have many military lifestyle modules as well so
there are a myriad of avenues we try to make sure we do that.
Last, too our outreach efforts--we do include it in our--in our
outreach talking points.
Mr. Levin. Do you think that today VR&E is utilized
effectively by transitioning service members? Are you satisfied
with the rate with which VR&E is used?
Ms. Cohen. If I would, I would defer that to Mr. Pamperin
with the VR&E program.
Mr. Pamperin. It is a great question, sir.
What I will tell you is we have seen record growth within
VR&E, growth that we have never seen historically before. We
are up over 45 percent in applications, over 38 percent in
active participants. We are at over 160,000 veterans within our
program.
Our program is not for every veteran. You do have to have
that service-connected disability and an employment barrier. In
my two and a half years in this program, when I first came on
board we were hovering at around 117,000, 120,000. I think as
part of outreach, as part of the PACT Act, part of all of the
efforts that we have made, we have seen tremendous growth.
Mr. Levin. How many veterans, roughly, do you think could
avail themselves of VR&E if they knew to sign up and, you know,
were given the adequate information to do? What does that rough
number look like? It is 160,000 out of how many?
Mr. Pamperin. Honestly, sir, I would have to take that one
back for the record because it is a two-part process. You have
got to have the service-connected and character of discharge
for eligibility and then you are seen by a counselor and they
are the ones who make that professional designation--is that--
is there a barrier to your employment and things of that
nature. I would be happy to----
Mr. Levin. I am encouraged to hear the spike, you know, 38
percent you said from a hundred--you said, roughly, 117,000 and
160,000 but, again, the question is out of how many and what I
have heard is that it is a lot. You know, we are talking about
several hundred thousand potentially that could, you know, take
advantage of that program.
I guess the--I am encouraged to hear about a QR code--that
is good. What else can you do differently? It sounds like
things are improving. Obviously, with the PACT Act they are
improving. What else can you do differently? What creative
ideas or suggestions do you have?
Ms. Cohen. A few initiatives. We have launched--we have
collaborated with U.S. Department of Labor (DOL) with our off-
base transition training. We have done----
Mr. Levin. That was our bill. Appreciate that.
Ms. Cohen. Absolutely. That is another opportunity where we
are messaging services. Also with our Solid Start--that is new
too--is we are reaching out where they can schedule the call in
advance, and while Solid Start already has a more than 70
percent connection rate we are finding that when people--when
veterans can schedule that call in advance they are answering
that call on the first instead of the third call and the length
of the conversation we are finding is twice as long.
We continue to work every avenue we can to make sure we
have that direct connect.
Mr. Levin. With the chairman's permission I will ask one
more question. He is tough with his gavel, though. Or we can
come back for a second round if you want.
Mr. Van Orden. Mike, please go ahead and we are going to
extend your window here.
Mr. Levin. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Of course, it is only because you rooted for
the Packers.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Levin. The other program I wanted to ask you about is
the Vet Success on Campus and the VSOC counselors. There are
not enough of them. Lots of campuses do not have them.
I think I read here in the Milwaukee area you--or in the
region, rather, you have one at the University of Wisconsin,
Milwaukee, but you do not have any in lots of other areas.
The question is how does your VR&E office manage what are
supposed to be personalized career planning and Chapter 36
counseling requests at all these other campuses when you only
have one counselor for this whole region. It is a big region.
We are a long way from Milwaukee.
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you for that question.
The determination of how many VSOCs we have in Wisconsin,
unfortunately, is not made by me. It is determined nationally
and I believe Mr. Pamperin could expound on that as to why.
Mr. Pamperin. Sure. Be happy to.
I know VSOC is requested at a lot of states and
universities across the country. We do have a wait list of
over--of about 300 universities that have requested them.
To your point, first, on the Chapter 36 portion, for any
veteran who is seeking 36 services that does not have a VSOC we
do have what--our Personalized Career Planning and Guidance
Program (PCPG) contract that does provide that counseling
service to those veterans on those campus for schools that have
requested.
We have, unfortunately, been constrained by who we are
allowed to hire for a VSOC. Right now, due to our record growth
our first priority is to ensure that veterans are seen by a
counselor. We do have that legislative requirement of one
counselor per 125 veterans.
We recently added 342 Full-time Equivalent (FTE) to the
VR&E program this year alone just to maintain that ratio. The
VSOC counselors on campus provide an immense benefit to
veterans and to military dependents and spouses on that campus
but 76 percent of the work that they do is not VR&E related.
We are constrained by--we are required to hire that
master's-educated counselor that has one of five degrees.
Makes it incredibly difficult to recruit and, respectfully,
my first priority has to be getting those veterans that are in
the 31 pipeline, that massive growth that we have seen, seen by
a counselor.
That is where our primary focus has been.
Mr. Levin. Do you know if that--my last question--if that
master's requirement is a statutory requirement or is that
something that you have put in place via regulation?
Mr. Pamperin. It is statutory, sir.
Mr. Levin. We can--we will take that back. That is a very
helpful feedback.
Mr. Pamperin. I would love to work with you and the
committee on finding some relief so that we can potentially
change that barrier that we have so that we could look to add
more or provide, you know, the service to colleges.
Mr. Levin. Thank you. Yield back. He is going to get this
gavel.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired. The chair
now recognizes Hon. Glenn Grothman, my very good friend from
the great State of Wisconsin, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Okay. I would like to thank
Congressman Van Orden for having this hearing.
You know, most of the Congress is--in August because we are
not in Washington is kind of on break so I was very happy to
see that Derek Van Orden was bringing a little bit of Congress
here, and his office happens to be next to mine.
I can tell you for a freshman he already has developed a
reputation for kind of, at least on the Republican side of the
aisle, one of the two or three guys who is the go-to guy on
veterans issues and I certainly--not having been in the
military myself I certainly rely a great deal on Congressman
Van Orden for how to handle veterans issues.
Now, a couple questions here. I was interested that you
just told me that we have restrictions on who can become a
counselor. Do you think those restrictions should be removed?
Mr. Pamperin. Sir, for clarification, the restrictions on
the Vet Success on Campus counselor position?
Mr. Grothman. Yes.
Mr. Pamperin. It is my opinion that they--those
restrictions should be removed so that they can provide the
general benefits VA assistance. Opens up the door for us to
hire a whole different cadre than a small group of counselors.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
Next question. Congressman Van Orden led off by talking a
little bit about the high suicide rate among veterans. Does any
of you feel qualified to talk about the number of suicides and
why they are going up?
I mean, we are certainly putting more and more money into
counselors, which I guess proves that somebody who is putting
money into a problem does not solve the problem. If you want to
give us a shot as to why the number of suicides keeps going up
anyway?
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you for the question.
I could not really respond to that. I can tell you some--I
can outline the training our employees have over the--at least
at the regional office level to attempt to impact that in a
positive way.
We have approximately 850 full time employees at the
Milwaukee regional office. They are required to undergo annual
training on suicide prevention which includes referrals to
identifying if they--if they identify it a potential to refer
to specialists a suicide crisis hotline in the hospital.
Our public-facing employees actually have training twice a
year on this issue provided by Melissa's staff and I will let
Melissa expound on that.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I will tell you which direction I am
going.
First of all, if the number of suicides is going up is it
greater than for the general population? Say, veterans who are
in their 30's compared to the population as a whole in their
30's, are veterans committing suicide at a higher rate?
Ms. Cohen. I cannot speak to that specific question. I can
tell you a little bit about some of the services within my area
of responsibility that may help with the general topic if that
is helpful for you.
Mr. Grothman. Okay, sure. Well, do you know when a veteran
commits suicide does it go into some sort of data bank
somewhere where we can follow up and see what would have
happened there?
Ms. Cohen. I do not have that particular portfolio. I
cannot answer that question. I can tell you that DOD flags for
us when there is a transitioning service member that has
certain risk factors and we will reach out.
Mr. Grothman. Yes. Does anybody have an answer to that
question?
Mr. Van Orden. I do, yes. Sorry, I recognize myself for--
can we have a colloquy here?
Yes, Congressman Grothman, what happens is that the
Veterans Affairs Administration catalogs this but they are--
they are not cataloging several different types of deaths of
veterans including drug and alcohol overdoses and also
accidents related to drug and alcohol overdose.
They are mischaracterizing the amount of veterans that are
actually committing suicide. We have had multiple hearings
about this in Congress and the issue is that they are not using
different types of--they call them evidence-based treatment
modalities.
We are going to have--as a matter of fact, I would like to
invite you and you. In September we are going to have another
hearing for nontraditional and nonevidence-based treatment
modalities to prevent veteran suicide.
That is the long answer to your question. The short answer
is yes.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Well, very good.
Do you find as the number of people you treat has gone up
that the number of suicides has dropped, or what is the
correlation between the number of veterans you touch and the
number of disasters we have?
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you for that question. I really do not
believe that I would be able to answer that question. I think
that would be better directed toward our Veterans Health
Administration (VHA) counterparts.
Give you an example. You know, I said we have--in the
regional office we have about 850 FTE. Only about 10 percent of
those actually do face-to-face contact with veterans. The rest
of them are actually, you know, doing other services, looking
at--basically deciding claims, different things.
They may see flags within a claims file that there is a
suicide potential and they do referrals or it is not unusual
for the national call center, which is not in Milwaukee, to
refer a call from a Wisconsin veteran that there is this flag
for suicide potential or--and it goes through a protocol
referral process to the hospital, to the suicide hotline, up
and to include welfare checks. There is a whole litany of
process there.
To your base question, I do not feel I would have the
knowledge to answer it.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I guess my 5 minutes is up.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman's time has expired. Glenn, if
you want to do a second we are here all day.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
Mr. Van Orden. The chair now recognizes himself for 5
minutes.
Yes, I just referred to myself in the third person. That is
what you are supposed to do here in Congress. That is part of
the problem.
Okay. How many vets do we have here again? Raise your hand.
Okay. Keep your hand up if you know what VR&E is. Okay. That is
actually more than I anticipated but it is about half.
That is an issue. If we have our veterans that do not even
understand or know what this program is or that it exists that
is the problem. You know, we got a big surge. We are getting
200 more vets a month because of the PACT Act and all that
coming up.
We cannot forget about those who have served that are not
going to go through TAP and it has been a consistent issue that
I have had with the VA is that we do try to get things done for
the now retiring veterans but we cannot forget the people that
made it so we are not conducting this hearing in German. You
know what I mean?
We need to do a better job of getting this pushed out to
the people that look like me and some of the other folks. I
want to do a follow up with Mike's question and what I have
noticed and I am sure that Mike--Mike was the chairman of this
subcommittee the last Congress and I am sure that he has
noticed that the Veterans Affairs Administration does a
terrible job of framing a problem. Like, the problem is not
framed well, and so what is your current budget now for this?
VR&E--what is the current budget?
Mr. Pamperin. I believe our current budget is, to include
expenditures, $1.2 billion.
Mr. Van Orden. $1.2 billion-ish, right? Okay.
Are you sufficiently funded?
I know it is--never ask a government bureaucrat if they are
sufficiently funded. You cannot see behind you but we can and
everyone was, like--yes.
Mr. Pamperin. Right. Obviously, within our program, and I
do want to just quick mention something about suicide. One
thing that truly makes VR&E great is veterans in our program by
our longitudinal study have higher rates of healthcare
utilization. To your point----
Mr. Van Orden. That is what we are trying to do.
Mr. Pamperin [continuing]. we need to make sure that we are
funded for the staffing levels so that we have counselors to be
able to serve veterans.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Mike asked you a real specific
question, how many folks are eligible for this, and you could
not answer the question, which leads back to my original
statement.
The Veterans Affairs Administration does a terrible job of
framing a problem. You cannot tell me how much money you need
for X amount of staff persons if you do not know how many staff
persons you need because you do not know how many veterans need
to be serviced.
You guys approach this--and it is not just you. I am not
bagging on you specifically. You guys approach this thing the
wrong way. You try to build this huge model. You do not
understand what needs to take place.
Until you have an actual survey, until you have a census of
the amount of veterans that are currently enrolled, the amount
of veterans that can potentially be enrolled, you cannot
reasonably ask us for the appropriate on money which it is our
job to write the budget to give you the money if you do not
have the data points required.
I really hope that when you leave here, because we will
follow up, that we get the answer how many veterans are
potentially or how many veterans can potentially be enrolled in
this problem? It is not that hard. What is the disability
rating, 30 percent?
Ms. Cohen. Ten.
Mr. Van Orden. Ten? It is 10 percent so a 10 percent
rating, right, and then they have to have certain restrictions,
right? You tie that directly to their diagnosis when they come
out to get that rating.
It is really not that complicated. It just is not. I used
this program to go to law school. I have used every single
educational program from tuition assistance to VR&E. I have
used the entire spectrum.
No one can snow the snowman. I know you guys are trying to
do your best but we have to do a better job of framing these
problems and we have to do a better job of educating the people
sitting behind you, which leads me to this question.
What is your interface with our CVSOs, our county veteran
service officers? What type of interface do you have with them?
Is it a regular meeting? Is it a quarterly thing? Is it
bimonthly? Is it a newsletter?
How do you guys interface with the troops on the front line
which are our county veteran service officers?
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you so much for that question.
I can tell you in the 10 years that I have been the
director of the Milwaukee VA regional office I have a--I feel,
and I will let them speak for themselves--I feel I have a very
close relationship with our Wisconsin County Veterans Service
Officer Association.
We have monthly conference calls. We have--twice a year
they have their convention, which I am involved in speaking to.
I will tell you where we can do better is we usually spend the
majority time updating changes in the PACT Act, changes in
benefit entitlement.
We have not spent as much time as I feel we should on VR&E
type ancillary benefits and I will make you that commitment. We
have a--we have a meeting coming up or a convention coming up
in October. I will make that forefront of my interaction with
our CVSOs.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Honeycutt, and we will check
my schedule and if I am not in DC, I will be there. With that,
my time has expired and, Congressman Grothman, do you want to
do a second round of questioning?
Mr. Grothman. Sure.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. We will do a second round of
questioning. Ranking Member Levin, do you have any questions
you would like to ask?
The chair now recognizes Hon. Glenn Grothman for 5 minutes.
Mr. Grothman. Yes, I asked a couple questions about suicide
before and, you know, when our veterans take their own life I
hope that is something we are all--all realize what a
catastrophe it is and what we are doing, and I am a little
concerned maybe we are not getting the appropriate data we can.
I am going to throw out some questions. Maybe you do not
know the answers. We all should know the answers. It is a
concern that we do not. If we do not Congressman Van Orden is
going to have hearings later, and maybe you know the type of
things that I think Congress is looking for.
When you do find suicides, you know, percentage wise how
many have had contact with the VA beforehand?
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you for that question. I do not know
that answer. What I will do is take back and interface with our
VHA counterparts that would know that data and I can provide it
for you.
Mr. Grothman. Do we have to--the question is do we--do we
have that data? Does somebody keep track of that?
Mr. Honeycutt. I am sure that is in VHA, yes, in the
hospital side.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Next question is if someone does commit
suicide do we have data on whether or not they received
treatment for depression and do we have data as to whether that
veteran was on any sort of medication?
Mr. Honeycutt. Thank you for the question. I believe that
data exists. I will do every--make every attempt to get that
for you.
Mr. Grothman. I will tell the reason I am asking the
question.
Sometimes, because of Health Insurance Portability and
Accountability Act (HIPAA) requirements, we are told that
information we would like to have is not available. I do not
even know whether you have the ability to get that information.
If we, for example, find out that a veteran committed suicide
do we have the capability of knowing whether or not that person
was on medication or not?
Mr. Honeycutt. I am unable to answer that question. I
apologize. I really do not--I really--I am not in a position to
be able to speak to that.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I guess what I am getting to, if we are
going to solve this problem we have to know certain answers,
right? We cannot just throw money at the situation because you
throw money at the situation you do not solve the problem, and
if the treatment they are receiving is ineffective or poor we
have got to know that.
We have got to know, you know, what is done, was this
veteran flagged for potential problems, if--after he dies was
he receiving counseling for depression within the VA? Was he
receiving counseling for depression outside the VA?
Do you not think those are things that we ought to know if
we are going to be serious about solving this problem?
Mr. Honeycutt. I do not disagree with you whatsoever,
Congressman.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Any of the other two folks up there
have a comment?
Ms. Cohen. I agree with Mr. Honeycutt that VHA does own,
typically, the suicide portfolio. Under my purview I will just
give you an example going back to Solid Start. This is--it is
an initiative. When we understand someone has risk factors for
suicide--the Department of Defense tells us that--we prioritize
calling those veterans in that first year--that first
transition year.
We will make up to 21 calls. For those three times we call
seven times to make sure we make that connection. We have
connected with 90,000 people since Solid Start has launched,
90,000 at-risk veterans to make sure that we connect them with
all the resources we can, to the crisis line, and to make sure
that we offer them support.
Mr. Grothman. I will give you one more follow-up question
on that.
Ms. Cohen. Please.
Mr. Grothman. Of course, they can ask for help through the
VA and I am sure many people ask for help outside the VA, and I
am sure many people do not ask for any help at all.
My guess, though I do not know, is because of HIPAA
requirements we may find it impossible to know whether or not
people have received medication for problems or not or if that
medication is effective because there are a lot of people out
there more skeptical of medication and think maybe it is even
counterproductive.
Do you think if you cannot get the answers to these
questions that we should maybe put a hole in the HIPAA law to
allow us to do research just to see how many veterans commit
suicide, whether they were on antidepressants?
Ms. Cohen. I am sorry. I cannot speak to that specific
HIPAA topic.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. Well, okay. Well, thank you for
allowing me to go over and----
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman----
Mr. Grothman. I will yield.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
Before we dismiss you guys I just want everyone in the
audience to understand that Mr. Pamperin, Mr. Honeycutt, and
Ms. Cohen are not dodging anything. This is not what you hear
on TV. This is not the bureaucratic dodge.
What it does demonstrate is that the Veterans Affairs
Administration has built itself on a series of pillars of
excellence, or you know them as stovepipes, because there is
part of the VHA, Glenn, that they do not even know this stuff.
They do not cross pollinate. It is because the Veterans
Affairs Administration is the second largest bureaucracy on the
planet, the first one being our own DOD.
I just want to be very clear with everybody here that these
three folks are not dodging anything. They have been very
forthcoming and--but it is great to demonstrate the fact that
these would be great things to know if we do frame the problem
and we kind of readjust ourselves.
It is not just--it is not pushing a veteran through to get
an education. It is pushing a veteran through to make sure that
they are alive to get the education and that once they get the
education they become a productive member of society as a
civilian just as they were a productive member of society as a
member of the military.
I want to thank you guys very much. Are you driving back?
Can you hang on for the second panel?
Mr. Van Orden. You are all good? Okay. Well, with that, I
want to thank you all and you are excused. I hope you will and
you will be sticking around for the second panel. We will be in
recess until we get ourselves set up here for the second panel.
[Recess.]
Mr. Van Orden. Take your seats, please. Take your seats,
please.
In our second panel we have representatives from several
local community organizations and student veterans: Mr. Joe
Quackenboss--great name--veteran service officer from
Trempealeau County; Mr. Dustin Schultz, a veteran specialist at
Western Tech College; and Ms. Dana Luba, The Veterans of
Foreign Wars of the U.S. (VFW) commander in Wisconsin.
Then we also have Ms. Kaytlyn Brown, student veteran from
Western Tech--good morning, ma'am--and Mr. Adrian Moreno, a
student veteran at the University of Wisconsin La Crosse.
I would like to welcome you all and please stand and raise
your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth?
[All witnesses answer in the affirmative.]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much. Let the record reflect
that all witnesses have answered in affirmative. Please take
your seats.
Mr. Quackenboss, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to
deliver your testimony.
STATEMENT OF JOE QUACKENBOSS
Mr. Quackenboss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As a military veteran, transitioning from active duty to
civilian life is a journey filled with both challenges and
opportunities, especially when it comes to navigating the
academic landscape.
My experience transitioning both on and off the school
campus has been a mix of triumphs and tribulations but through
it all I have identified key areas where support from various
entities could significantly have enhanced the process for
veterans like myself.
On campus one of the biggest hurdles I faced was adjusting
to the academic environment. Coming from a structured military
setting to the more independent and sometimes overwhelming
nature of college classes was a significant shift.
Many veterans, myself included, could benefit from tailored
orientation programs that not only introduce us to academic
resources but also provide guidance on time management, study
skills and access to tutoring services.
Furthermore, the Department of Veteran Affairs plays a
crucial role in supporting veterans through educational
benefits. While the GI bill offers valuable assistance the
bureaucracy and delays in processing claims can be very
frustrating and discouraging for a lot of veterans.
Streamlining the application process and the disbursement
of funds process could alleviate a lot of stress and ensure
that veterans receive the entitled benefits in a more timely
manner.
In addition to institutional support, veteran service
organizations like the American Legion, the different CVSOs,
things like that, they provide valuable resources for veterans
transitioning to civilian lifestyle
These organizations can offer a sense of camaraderie,
something that a lot of us left behind, that peer support and
access to valuable resources such as career counseling,
networking opportunities and mental health services.
However, that greater collaboration between Veterans
Service Organizations (VSO) and educational facilities I feel
like needs to be enhanced to ensure veterans are aware and
connected to the vital resources they have.
There is a gap between what even myself as a CVSO knows
about the veteran benefits available for education and what
there is for veterans when they step foot on campus.
Community members also play a very high role in supporting
veterans during the transition. Many employers, for instance,
can implement veteran hiring initiatives and provide mentorship
programs to help veterans navigate within the community. This
can help combat the stigma and create a more inclusive
environment for reintegration of veterans.
In conclusion, the transition from military service to
civilian life, particularly within the academic setting, is a
complex process that requires support from multiple
stakeholders.
By improving access to resources, streamlining
bureaucratic--I am sorry, bureaucratic processes, fostering
collaboration between institutions and organizations, and
cultivating a supportive community environment we can enhance
the transition for veterans to ensure they strive in post-
service endeavors.
Thank you.
[The Prepared Statement Of Joe Quackenboss Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields back. Thank you, Mr.
Quackenboss. The written statement of Mr. Quackenboss will be
entered into the record.
Mr. Schultz, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to
deliver your testimony.
STATEMENT OF DUSTIN SCHULTZ
Mr. Schultz. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
My name is Dustin Schultz. I am a veteran specialist for
Western Technical College (WTC) and have been in my position
for 3 years.
Prior to this role, I was a veteran service officer and a
nonprofit director for a veteran mentorship program where we
worked with our local veterans treatment court and justice
involved veterans. Last, I am an honorably discharged U.S. Army
veteran and served overseas during Operation Iraqi Freedom.
I will be providing remarks on the struggles I have
witnessed as service members transition from the military.
Current programs like the Transition Assistance Program and
the Yellow Ribbon Reintegration Program--TAP--are great tools
for help and service members transition into education and
employment.
However, senior leadership are often beyond this stage in
their life. Officers already have a college degree and senior
noncommissioned officers often elect to transfer their
education benefit to their dependents.
Retiring senior leadership may choose not to return to the
workforce at all. This is a disconnect between those providing
these preventative services and the lower enlisted service
members who do not share the same circumstance, and from my
experience lower enlisted service members struggle to
transition the most.
Veterans report that timing is a problem for the current
transitional services. They see these programs as a series of
checked boxes positioned between them and their release from
the military.
This causes participation to be rushed. Service members are
not honest about what issues they may have to deal with upon
their return and do not foresee the challenges ahead of them.
Veterans report that these programs are provided at the end
of their time in the military and do not allow much time to
consider the challenges that they may face. I believe there
should be more efforts to start the transitional services much
earlier in their careers.
Service members are returning to a home where parents, a
spouse, or other loved ones have taken on some of their
responsibilities in their absence. They may struggle to find
their role in the home, leading to relationship issues like
divorce and thus compounding emotional, financial and social
hardship.
Services should include the families who are critical to
successful transition and help prevent those compounding
issues.
Current service programs seem to lack follow up after
leaving the military. This can leave the veteran feeling
discarded and devalued. Coordination with other services and
programs is lacking. There are thousands of nonprofit
organizations that can help.
Services or support that is not specific to veterans are
often overlooked. For example, we have veterans that are not
aware that they can utilize the free application for Federal
student aid, FAFSA.
I believe the case management approach that is proactively
assessing the service members and their families as they
transition back into the civilian life would be helpful.
Incorporate all effective forms of support such as faith-based
programs, peer support, and others that are personalized to the
individual.
Exit services could be provided by a reintegration
counselor similar to that of the Veteran Readiness and
Employment program Chapter 31 who can assist the service member
and connect them to the appropriate resources.
Veterans who die by suicide are alarming figures but they
often do not include those who die of accidental death due to
things like poor decision-making, recklessness, or
unintentional drug overdoses.
The service member does not know how they will handle the
freedoms of civilian life until they experience it. I feel
there should be an additional emphasis on making good decisions
and minimizing risky behavior.
Last, education benefits are a major reason many decide to
join the military and often the first endeavor for a service
member after they transition.
A common issue people report is the financial instability
due to prorated housing payments. For instance, if a student
begins spring term January 8 the VA will prorate their monthly
housing stipend and reduce their housing payment.
When the term ends the payment is again prorated excluding
days at the end of the month that the student is not enrolled.
I believe these inconsistent housing payments cause
unnecessary hardship to students, student veterans, and their
families.
Thank you.
[The Prepared Statement Of Dustin Schultz Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Schultz.
I just want to say something. I know the three of you
pretty well and I told Mike the first time I ever met Dustin he
gave me the razz, like, what are you doing? I mean, like,
hardcore.
I was--and I told him what we are doing, and we have talked
repeatedly and I really like the initial adversarial approach
that you have taken and by your testimony here you have shown
you actually know what you are talking about, as do you, Mr.
Quackenboss, obviously.
Then, Ms. Luba, I would like to let everyone to know that
this is my Veterans of Foreign Wars post commander. Thank you
for coming today, Commander.
We are both members of Legion Post 1530 here in La Crosse
and you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your
testimony, Ms. Commander.
STATEMENT OF DANIELLE LUBA
Ms. Luba. Thank you.
House of Representatives, Committee on Veteran Affairs and
Congressman Van Orden, thank you for the opportunity to let me
speak on my behalf regarding my transition from the military to
my civilian life.
I would first like to explain that I am an almost 17-year
veteran of the world's greatest Air Force. Most of my career
has been as an Air National Guard member. I have always worn
two hats, my military cover and my civilian cover. They both
coexist with one another.
My transition to using my educational benefits was a
challenge for myself. For most of your entire young life into
adulthood it is controlled by somebody else. They help you to
make decisions of your day to day.
When you join the military, you are shifting it from a
family member's job to help you decide to the military making
those decisions for you. They set your day for you based on
what is best for the mission.
When I was given the opportunity post training I
immediately enrolled into Western Technical College. I had no
idea what I was doing. I just kept hearing this is your
opportunity--take it and run with it, and in the ideal world of
knowing exactly what you want that would have worked out
perfectly.
I spent 2 years using my GI bill for a career that I do not
think I ever wanted. I then proceeded to continue to use it at
a 4-year university with the same outcome. It was not until my
first deployment in 2012 that I had time to sit and think in a
once again extremely structured environment that I found what
my forever idea was.
After I returned I continued to another 4-year school and
completed my bachelor's degree. One of the main benefits that
the military will use as a recruiting tool is your school is
paid for and that statement is correct if you have the proper
guidance to ensure that it is used correctly.
Here I sit, an almost 17-year veteran with over $30,000 in
student loan debt. I am very grateful for the opportunity to
serve my country and do what I am doing but it would have been
nice to have better guidance when I was younger.
They always say once you get older you will understand. I
now fully understand the need for proper assistance when
someone is beginning the chapter for their educational
benefits.
The Veterans of Foreign Wars support the efforts to making
veterans' transition a smoother process and assisting them in
all ways. Veterans have given their worlds to ensure ours and
to be able to help them now should be everyone's goal.
I would like to thank you for your time and listening to my
experience.
[The Prepared Statement Of Danielle Luba Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields back.
Ms. Brown, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony.
STATEMENT OF KAYTLYN BROWN
Ms. Brown. I would like to thank you all for this
opportunity to come here and speak to you guys about my
experiences.
My name is Kaytlyn Brown. I served in the United States
Navy from November 2014 to September 2023. I opted to do the
in-person TAP class on board Naval Station Norfolk and I
personally did not find the week-long class to be beneficial.
Day one when I showed up on the desks were stack of books
containing everything and anything, and we had what basically a
lot of us in the Navy love to call death by PowerPoint.
Basically, it skimmed over. We did have some guest speakers
come in and they just regurgitated what was on the PowerPoints
and were not actually able to answer any of the questions that
myself and my fellow military members had, and it is still the
same for my friends who are going through TAP class currently
because I did ask them about that.
Sorry, I have a lot of anxiety.
Mr. Van Orden. Ms. Brown, you have all the time you need.
Ms. Brown. Then just going into my transition experience
through my last command, which was mid-Atlantic Regional
Maintenance Center in Norfolk, I did not have a lot of help
from them. They just kind of do the usual, hey, you are
transitioning out. You are separating. We do not really want to
deal with you.
They just do not like to help you. I had a, I do believe, a
4-month out-serve, so a lot of my stuff on the tail end of my
contract did not show up when I actually had to file my
separation paperwork.
I had to actually beg another E7 to argue my leave chit for
me so I can take leave from July to September to finish out my
end of contract here at home and, thankfully, he took pity on
me and did go argue with the higher ups and the officers and
be, like, hey, you know this is her case.
She has everything. You know, she did the math. She has all
the paperwork to show you that she has these days of leave
occurred to take this full amount even though it does not
actually reflect in our web pages.
Then my next biggest issue was dealing with my household
good moves. I had to go through the Suddath moving company and
about a couple months after I got home, you know, I had a
couple months left to actually file all my paperwork and they
changed the entire system.
I did not have numbers I needed to actually enter in and to
try and get paid for stuff they damaged like my washing
machine. It looks like it fell down the highway. Still works
somehow but it looks horrible.
You know, they managed to break a couple--a TV, a couple
other odds and ends and I am just, like, this is kind of
fantastic that I cannot get reimbursed because you guys changed
everything.
You know, it is just a lot of these service members, you
know, myself, I do not know about them but a lot of our issues
stem directly while we are still in the military trying to
actually get out, prepare ourselves, and we are not getting the
adequate help or support even from our last commands.
You know, I have seen it across every single command I have
been at. I first served on U.S. Stout DDG-55. Those people
separating they had issues there. Then I next served on USS
Gerald R. Ford CVN-78--still had issues. 27 Merrimack they did
get a little bit better but still a lot of issues with these
separating service members, and I find it extremely
disappointing, especially after myself being a child of an Army
veteran and Air Force veteran.
I watched both my parents struggle and now I understand
that struggle and I find it still disappointing, you know, 20
years later it is still happening.
Thank you for your time.
[The Prepared Statement Of Kaytlyn Brown Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. The gentlelady yields back.
Ms. Brown, thank you very much for coming. I will talk to
you later.
Mr. Moreno, the chair now recognizes you for 5 minutes to
deliver your testimony.
STATEMENT OF ADRIAN MORENO
Mr. Moreno. All right. Good morning.
Thank you, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and
distinguished members of the Subcommittee of Economic
Opportunity for allowing me to testify today on the critical
issue of the transition experience for veterans like us going
into--going on and off campus.
My name is Adrian Miguel Marino. I am a senior here at the
University of Wisconsin La Crosse. I am the leader of--sorry,
president of the prelaw society here as well as the philosophy
club.
Outside of that, I have done youth sports coaching as a
volunteer for the past four or 5 years since I have been here.
Before this I served in the Mississippi National Guard straight
out of high school and after that the Wisconsin National Guard
and worked for the State of Wisconsin in a civilian capacity
for my last two or three remaining years serving with the
Guard.
I come before you today as a person of Hispanic descent, a
person of color, as well as a veteran to express concerns on
behalf of those who are accustomed to being underrepresented.
I come before all you today because our service members
face a unique battle transitioning into life as students. It is
crucial that we as a society through our institutions provide
comprehensive support to these veterans to ensure their
transition.
Transitioning service members, particularly those who are
first-generation students like myself, often lack proper
academic guidance despite never even having stepped foot on a
college campus.
While veterans undoubtedly possess valuable skills such as
adaptability and resilience, these alone are not nearly
sufficient enough to sustain academic performance. The result
can often be discouragement, isolation, and abandonment of
educational goals.
In my own experience, transitioning from the military
service to civilian life and academia was a process of trial
and error. I found myself job hopping, trying to find a role
that suited my skills and interest.
This period was challenging and very often discouraging.
The need that I had for structured guidance and support went
consistently unmet and because of that to say that I struggled
immensely would be an understatement.
Good, distinguished members of the committee, we need to
equip veterans with tools and resources to explore different
career paths and understand how their skills can translate into
these civilian roles and not just speak about them.
I have personally experienced these difficulties and was
fortunate enough to meet civilians who provided crucial
support, not because I was a veteran but just because they saw
how hard I was working to even stay on campus day in and day
out.
Unfortunately, many service members do not have the same
experience. To address this issue I propose that we empower our
service members with the same level of interest and guidance
that the universities here offer first-year students.
Specifically, I recommend the introduction of first-year
experience courses tailored for veteran students. I also
advocate for institutions to provide and promote career
advising and skill translation services.
These measures can help veterans translate their military
skills into academic and civilian settings, fostering a
smoother and more successful transition.
In support of these proposed solutions research often shows
that the most significant barrier to pursuing a college degree
after service is that we are often outliers in the classroom.
Everything that we know is from personal endeavors and not
from structured guidance. A first-year experience course
tailored for veterans could help them navigate their classes
and on college campuses manage their time more effectively and
understand the resources available to them.
Such a course could also provide a supportive community
either for or comprised of veterans to prevent many of these
feelings of isolation and, more importantly, prevent many
avoidable failures.
In conclusion, we must provide comprehensive support to
these veterans transitioning into civilian life and academia.
Again, I recommend the introduction of a first-year experience
course tailored for veteran students and the promotion of
career advising and skilled translation services.
While the parking spaces are great, a little guidance can
go a very long way and these measures can provide veterans with
just that, allowing them to translate their military skills
into academic and civilian roles to lead society, not just be a
part of it.
I come to you today in a very privileged position to talk
about something that is very personal to me--my failures, not
my victories--because I had the right people that helped me
just in time to get through here, and like one of our service
members here, despite having the support I am in $30,000-plus
of debt and I am not even through graduate school and I plan on
going to law school after this.
I am willing to answer any questions that you have about
these recommendations. Thank you again for the opportunity to
testify on this important issue.
[The Prepared Statement Of Adrian Moreno Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Moreno.
Before we get into questions I just got to tell you we are
different. We are different. Brown, Luba, Schultz, Quackenboss,
Moreno, me, the rest of the screwballs behind you--we are just
different, and I think that that makes us unique and we have
the ability to tell these younger people that have rolled out
of high school and what the world really looks like, and they
get to see commitment and they get to get inspired by your
experiences.
Nothing is ever going to make you a civilian again and
there is good and bad with that, but I appreciate it and I will
get to more of you in question. Thank you for your testimony.
All of the witnesses' testimonies will be entered into the
official record. I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5
minutes. Apparently it is 8 minutes today. I do not know what
is happening.
Mr. Levin. This is unusual for him.
Mr. Van Orden. It is crazy.
Mr. Levin. I want to thank everybody just for their
exceptionally good testimony. You know, we do hearings all the
time and everybody was heartfelt and on point and I am very
grateful for it.
I want to thank our CVSOs, really, you know, across the
country. San Diego--they are huge the work that they do. We
have a bill--I think you know about this--but with Cathy
McMorris Rodgers, Brad Finstad, and myself called the CVSO Act
to help provide some funds your way. County VSOs are spread
thin and we are very grateful for the work you are doing.
Mr. Schultz, I want to thank you for the comments
particularly about junior enlisted service members. Back home
seeing our junior enlisted Marines at Camp Pendleton what they
are dealing with on a daily basis, you know, we tried--in fact,
in the National Defense Authorization Act we got a 20 percent
pay increase for junior enlisted service members and, again, it
went to the Senate--I am looking at you over there--and, you
know, unfortunately, we could not get it across the finish line
and there was actually pushback from the administration saying,
well, we do not want too much compression between the junior
enlisted and everybody else.
You know, what do I say to my junior enlisted Marines who
can barely make ends meet living in a place like San Diego,
California? It is just ridiculous.
I very much appreciate your comments.
Commander, thank you, and by the way, thank you to the VFW
again everywhere for all that you are doing. I want to--I am
going to come back to you but I want to start with the
students. Both of you spoke so articulately and you offered
some good suggestions.
My question for you is if you were in our shoes and you
could make changes--legal changes--to the way TAP works what
would you do if you were in our shoes, if you had that
opportunity? I will start with you, since you are going to law
school.
Mr. Moreno. Let us hope I make it, huh?
Mr. Van Orden. Oh, you are going to make it. You are going
to make it.
Mr. Moreno. I personally did not even know about TAP going
in. I did not know, frankly, about anything. It was more just
like Ms. Brown says, hey, congrats. You are out. Take advantage
of the opportunity. You know, beat it.
I personally would--you know, I agree with the death by
PowerPoint. The courses just, frankly, do not do much outside
of I checked that box--let me get out of here because clearly
they want me out of here.
On campus for these freshmen they make them go to mandatory
Eagle fest, student involvement, and even though most of them
do not care some of them do. They get the opportunity to at
least see this stuff in front of them.
They get to see it in action. They get to see people just
as enthused as them about the opportunity to go to school and
if they do not know it is fine because most people do not,
frankly, know what they want to do for the rest of their lives
by the time they are 20 anyways.
This should not be an obstacle to success and I feel as
though a first-year course that assists these freshmen greatly
and at least ensuring that they are not going way off course
while trying to achieve academic goals would definitely help a
lot more.
Making it a mandatory thing for first-years. I just know
that making the veterans office in--on campuses easier to find
would be helpful as well. It always feels like a scavenger hunt
trying to find wherever a VA is.
Mr. Levin. Great suggestions. I will ask you the same
question.
Ms. Brown. Honestly, I think that the TAP program it has
the correct intentions but how it manifests is not there.
I think instead of it being a week-long course that it
needs to be expanded so you can actually go in depth and make
sure that everyone that is going through the program actually
understands what is being presented to them because, you know,
death by PowerPoint they are just like, okay, here in speed
talk for about 15 to 20 minutes and then they are, like, okay,
see you. Bye.
It is not beneficial for everyone. We are just--it goes in
one ear and completely out the other side. I think it would
greatly benefit from being lengthened. You know, by that time
most commands are like, okay, well, you know, we know you are
on the out. You need to do this class. We think it should be
longer and they are already preparing to essentially replace
you anyways. So----
Mr. Levin. We are--so Jodey Arrington, who is a good friend
from Texas--he is now chairman of the Budget Committee--he and
I passed a bill that is now law for this off-base transition
pilot and the idea is to try to do some of what you are saying.
We have not really seen the results and, frankly, our
friends are still here from VA--it took, like, 3 years to get
the thing going. We have had--that sometimes happens, too. We
will pass a law and then we will say, okay, now we--you know,
now we are good and then it takes 3 years for them--two, three,
four--just to get the thing running.
There are some things happening. I just really want to
thank you both, and I will end with you, Commander.
I guess what are you hearing from your new members
--you know, your new transitioning service members, you
know, who are, you know, in my experience looking to serve in a
different capacity, looking to just figure it out. What are you
hearing?
Ms. Luba. That is kind of the problem with the VFW. Now, we
are trying to reshift our image. It used to be a good old boys
club and it was all the men that would go to the bar and hang
out with their friends, and really what we are trying to do now
is we are trying to shift it.
I would say Dustin and I are the youngest members there by
30 years. No offense if any of them are listening to me but it
is true. No, you are there--you are there.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Levin. I am right here. I am literally sitting in front
of you.
Ms. Luba. The thing is we are trying to shift that. One
thing that I have worked with Dustin is reintegrating our
scholarship program and so we get them out to Viterbo, to TC,
and to UW Well and we try to get veterans that are qualified
for the VFW with their DD-214s if they submit a letter, and it
can be on any topic, really. We do not really pick it but we
want to know why this would be beneficial. That is how we got
Dustin in the VFW is he did the scholarship and he has been
stuck ever since and he cannot leave now.
You know, the other things that we try to do is we try to
get out into the community a little bit more. I try to make
sure that I try to be at as many things as I can because I am
younger by 30 years. Somebody will see me there and they will
see a woman that is commander because the VFW was not always
the most kind to females especially.
In the State of Wisconsin we started a female committee--a
female veteran committee that we are trying to work with all
the VFWs to get questions out there. Do you feel welcomed at
your VFW? Do you feel like you are heard at your VFW? Then from
there we just keep pushing forward.
Mr. Levin. Well, I am out of time but I commend you for
doing that. I encourage you all, you know, think of creative
ideas and suggestions for us.
I know you have a very receptive Member of Congress right
here and, you know, we need your ideas. We need your input, and
I am just grateful to you all for your service and for your
testimony today. This was outstanding.
Thank you.
Mr. Van Orden. Does the gentleman yield?
Mr. Levin. I do.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields.
The chair now recognizes Hon. Glenn Grothman from the great
State of Wisconsin for 5 minutes.
Mr. Grothman. A couple questions. I have an idea of doing
something.
I get around to a lot of the employers in my district,
particularly the manufacturers. They almost routinely tell me
that we have too many people getting 4-year degrees out there
and they are not getting a lot of value out of them.
Do you think it would be beneficial to give veterans an
option when they leave the service, and some people could take
the GI Bill and other people could take, you know, just, say, a
down payment on a house which would help you in another part of
your life, given that I think it is almost universally
acknowledged among people we probably have too many 4-year
degrees out there today?
Mr. Moreno. While I am not in a position to be buying a
house anytime soon, I found that my struggle often was off
campus, if this helps.
Most of the time when I was not able to show up for class
or I was not able to complete work was that, to be frank, sir,
most employers are a little discouraged and when they see
National Guard even at the--you are still serving they are a
bit less inclined, at least outwardly, to--or inwardly, I am
sorry--to hire because now they have to accommodate for you
being out at drill.
I do not say this as a suspicion. I say this because I know
and been told this by an employer that picked me up. Like, I
kind of was a little nervous about hiring you at first because
of this and this and this and that.
I do not know if the issue is a lack of funding because I
always hear about so many programs that the program--that are
out there it is just what do you do when you get out.
Mr. Grothman. Well, you see my point. I mean, right now--I
will say we do not talk veterans for 1 second
--in society as a whole I again and again hear from
employers that they wish they had people get a skill than get a
4-year marketing degree or something and I thought about that
with regard to the veterans. I mean, the GI Bill has been a
long time. We should never get rid of the GI Bill.
I wondered if, you know, perhaps there are veterans out
there who would be better off with a cash stipend that they can
use to help them in life rather than a 4-year degree when we at
least, according to the employers in my district, we probably
have more than enough of.
You do not have an opinion on that. Your mind is a blank.
Ms. Luba. A benefit to the Air Force is while you are in
you can get your CCAF, your Community College of the Air Force
degree. It is a 2-year degree that comes through your training.
I have obtained that but, again, when you are a young
airman or a young enlisted you are told to take those education
benefits and go with them. That is--the number-one perk that
the military uses as recruiting is your college is paid for.
I think trying to change the mindset in a young adult
thinking that, you know, your push toward education, trying to
change it more into a skill, I think that is happening. Like,
TC does that with their 2-year degree, you know, and that is
more hands-on based and it is not a 4-year degree, but that
still would be paid for by their GI Bill. It is still
beneficial.
Mr. Grothman. Correct.
Yes, Ms. Brown.
Ms. Brown. I do believe Mr. Van Orden would have a better
understanding on how the Navy works, obviously. The Navy does
not like to actually give us any type of degrees.
We will maybe get a couple semester credits and that is
about it. Whereas, you know, my job in the Navy I was a hull
maintenance technician. I was a welder and plumber.
I do not even have--you know, with my almost 9 years of
experience I do not even have a full degree just even for
welding or even qualify for a journeyman unless I actually go
through and manually log every single hour I have done through
a MAPS program.
If we could actually change it so those schools would
actually give us an actual degree we would have more technical
diplomas and more skilled trades out in the world.
Most of us that want to go into jobs that are well paying
we do not have access to that and we would have to go through
school just to get those qualifications we already have and a
lot of us consider it a complete waste of time. Thank you.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. I will make one other comment. You
talked about a stigma. Usually when I associate veterans
looking for a job it is uniformly a positive, okay. I have
hired veterans in my office. I can tell you it jumps off the
page if you are a veteran.
I am not sure I would spend a lot of time talking about a
stigma because if there is a stigma it has got to be a tiny
segment of the population that has a stigma on hiring veterans.
I think everybody that I know would consider a person who
is a veteran it is a positive in hiring them and just
--that is just a little comment.
I guess I am over my time. Thank you for giving me an extra
12 seconds.
Mr. Van Orden. Does the gentleman yield?
Mr. Grothman. I yield.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Moreno was referring to being a National Guardsman
where you have to--you are continuing working. You are correct.
Oh, sorry, the chair now recognizes himself for 5 minutes.
Right. Glenn, that is what he was talking about. As opposed
to being like a straight up veteran I am no longer serving I am
now still in the National Guard and at some point, you are
going to have to go do drill and then deploy. I got you. Check.
Mr. Quackenboss, Mr. Honeycutt was here and he said that
you guys have pretty good communications. Is that, in fact, a
true statement from their perspective, sir? It is?
Mr. Quackenboss. That is absolutely a good statement.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
Mr. Quackenboss. Monthly we sit in our meetings together.
Not only that but we also have been stepping into more of the
case management as well where VA will ask community members
like CVSOs what cases do you want to bring forward--what is
going on in your area.
I sat in on a couple of those even just last week that were
absolutely fantastic, just going through the names of veterans
who--in our community who needed assistance or who had applied
for something--there was an issue.
Well, how can VA help? Who do we need to get in contact
with who would help them? Being able to sit in on those, being
a community member, being a CVSO, and being able to touch each
of those veterans in those ways and being able to move forward
and say, hey, we were able to get in touch with VA. VA is going
to reach out to you. That is the best part.
Mr. Van Orden. Roger that. Okay. Why that is so important
is Trempealeau County is on the opposite side of the State of
Milwaukee. To bring that up to you, Mike, that is an excellent
thing to hear.
Mr. Schultz, you nailed it. There is a massive disparity
between the officer and enlisted ranks. There simply are. Mike
said this. It was actually, I think, 23 percent increase that
we had written into the--our bill from the House.
Then the administration--the current administration--did
not want to do that, which, to me, is fantastically stupid, and
then it did not get through the Senate. Sorry, if we could talk
to Tammy about that I would appreciate that.
Right now how many QuikTrips are within a mile radius here?
The answer is 50, right. You can go to a QuikTrip right now as
a 17-year-old, sign up for QuikTrip. You are going to get paid
more, your benefits are going to be equal, and you do not have
to leave your family and no one is shooting at you unless you
are getting robbed.
Okay. Compare that to a junior enlisted person in the
military and it is not right.
I was part of a task force. We are trying to fix this. That
is where it came out of. We have got a lot of really very
serious veterans who have walked this walk in Congress or like
Mr. Garcia from California 25 he was an officer but he gets it
because he is connected with his enlisted folks and he sees
that we struggled.
My wife and I were using WIC. You guys know what that is--
Women, Infants and Children--to buy milk for our kids when I am
getting shot at overseas fighting al-Qaeda. That is not okay.
Thank you for pointing that out.
Ms. Luba, we are working on it--oh, sorry, Commander. We
want people to have a better understanding of what they are
trying to enter into in a second career and the problem is the
Department of Defense.
That is--I was referencing that directly in my opening
statement. The Department of Defense is the problem, and they
think that if we set up a smooth transition and a good off ramp
for active duty military people that people are going to get
out of the military and that has been proven wrong by my fellow
Navy SEALs.
Naval Special Warfare started this transition assistance--
the TAP program--and it is a 24-month thing that starts 2 years
before you are getting out of the service, to address Ms.
Brown's concern, and there was no increase of Navy SEALs
getting out of the military because they had an understanding
of what they are going to do when they got out.
That is a fallacy and it is wrong, and I have spoken
directly to the secretary via letter. I will say it again right
now. If you are Lloyd Austin--Secretary Austin, if you are
listening, your people are not doing what is right for our
service members because eventually they are going to become
veterans, and I was looking into the camera on purpose. There
you are.
Ms. Brown, you have shown incredible courage today and I
see how stressful this is to get up here and I am telling you
the old crusty, salty senior chief that probably uses
inappropriate language too often is telling you I am proud of
you.
There is no way in hell you should ever have to go to a
chief outside your division to advocate for you and that is the
problem I am talking about. Okay.
I was a command career counselor for two different commands
and I told every one of my guys, all my frogmen, if you are
thinking about getting out of the military I am the only person
you are going to tell.
Do not tell anybody, and I helped set them up, get
everything aligned for them. Guess what? I had a 100 percent
retention rate because I showed those people I actually cared
about them wearing the uniform and not.
We have to get over this culture of you are a piece of
trash when you no longer can be in the service. There is a man
sitting behind you who is a National Guardsman for the
Minnesota National Guard that when he got out they just threw
him out like he is garbage. Served his country and his unit. He
is no longer welcome. Door is closed. Am I paraphrasing--that
is accurate, sir?
Okay, so check me out. That is not okay. You go into my
office all the service seals are on the wall. You know what is
the far right, right there? You know what that is? It is the
Wisconsin National Guard. I hold them at the same level of
reverence that I do all of our active duty servicemen and
women.
There is 50 Pennsylvania National Guardsmen that are
directly responsible for me being alive today because they
protected me and my platoon in Iraq. I know half the room
wished they were not there but the other half does.
Our National Guardsmen and women are doing the job and we
have introduced bills together to make sure that we get parity
in educational benefits and many things across the board
because we respect your service tremendously.
I am sorry that you were treated that way, sir, in
Minnesota. At least you are now on the right side of the river.
That is all I am going to say.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Moreno, it is an excellent idea but it
is too late. By the time a student enrolls in a college it is
too late because you are going to run into what the commander
is talking about here.
They are going to get involved in a program. They are going
to think it is what they want to do. They are going to get 6
months or a year into it and then they have blown a year of
their GI Bill.
That is why the Department of Defense has to get off their
ass and realize that we are here for the full life cycle of the
sailor, Marine, soldier, airmen. That is from the time you join
the military to the time you are done and past that. That is a
life cycle.
What I would like to do is incorporate, because what you
are talking about is very smart, but take the actual programs
from the universities that our young servicemen and women are
going to go to and inject that into the cycle when they are
still active duty because then by the time they show up they
are going to go through the rest of the matriculation process
at the college but they have an 80 percent chance of getting
the right degree to begin with.
Here is the--here is the problem that we are working at.
Ms. Brown, this will--this speaks directly to you because that
has not changed since I was in the Navy and, you know, ships
were made of wood and men were steel. Now--that is an old Navy
joke because I am an old Navy guy. Has not changed and this is
why.
Naval officers and Army officers--our officer corps--is not
held accountable. They are not held accountable for their
troops or their sailors or their airmen for not going through
these programs. They are not held accountable for the follow-
on. They are just not.
I have proposed, and I have spoken to some of my other
Democrat colleagues, making this a block on a Fitness Report
(FITREP). That is what they call it in the Navy--it is a
Officer Evaluation Report (OER) in the Army--and it
specifically states how many of their troops have not gone
through this program, and they get docked and they do not get
promoted and that is the only way this is going to change is
holding our officer corps accountable for not taking care of
their sailors.
That is it. That is the real answer. Skip to the end. Mr.
Grothman, do you have any more questions you would like to ask?
Mr. Grothman. No. I would just say you put together a
great----
Mr. Van Orden. Well, I will get to you then. I just want to
make sure you did not want to do a second panel, and we will do
closing statements.
Mr. Grothman. Okay. No.
Mr. Van Orden. Do you have any more?
Mr. Levin. No, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. With that, I would like to recognize
the ranking member for any closing statement he would like to
make.
Mr. Levin. Well, I want to thank the chairman for his
leadership on our committee this Congress, and as has been said
for a freshmen he knows an awful lot and he is very dedicated
and passionate about serving you all and I hope you know that.
I can tell you it is my great honor to get to serve on this
committee as well. When I got to Congress I did not know it
would be the most rewarding work that I did but it is by a lot.
We actually--despite maybe some of the delays we actually
see the fruit of our labor a lot quicker and a lot more
directly than you see, again, in virtually any other committee
in the Congress and I hope it will always stay that way.
You know, we have an opportunity here. We are getting very
close to the election. It is silly season, right, in political
speak, and it gets harder and harder to get things done in
Washington before an election.
Whether it is before the election or before the end of the
year in what they call the lame duck session we have, I
believe, a moral obligation to get a veterans package done for
this Congress and I have got a couple bills in there including
the CVSO Act, including the Get Rewarding Outdoor Work for our
Veterans (GROW) Act, which is a bill that will hopefully get
lots and lots of veterans employed at the Department of
Interior in conservation jobs across the country. That is
something that is very important to me as well.
We have got to get it done. We have got to work together
and I thank the chairman and I thank Representative Grothman
for their work in this regard.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields back.
The chair now recognizes Hon. Glenn Grothman for any
closing statement he may wish to make.
Mr. Grothman. I would just like to thank you for putting
together these great panels. I think we learned a lot today.
I think we learned there is some more questions we want to
have answered in the future, particularly with regard to the
cause or what we can do about suicide.
You know, one more time I learned a little bit more about
the veterans' situation from Congressman Van Orden and, again,
I would like to thank all you folks for taking time out of your
busy days to come down here and educate us a little bit.
Mr. Van Orden. The gentleman yields back.
Well, thank you very much, everybody, for coming. I got to
tell you I hope everybody noticed a couple things that happened
today that you are never going to see in the press.
You are never going to see members of the veterans
community writ large openly praising the Veterans Affairs
Administration. You just do not see that.
They are the easiest can to kick around, and I want you to
understand that there are a tremendous amount of professionals
at the VA that are trying very, very hard to get things done
and you saw that witnessed today, which is fantastic.
From the health care side of the VA I get all my healthcare
through the VA, including these awesome glasses.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Van Orden. I get seen here in La Crosse and at Tomah
and I am very, very proud of them. Is anybody here from the
health side today? Okay. Thank you, ma'am. Oh, hey, what is up?
Listen, I am very, very proud of them and people need to
understand that, that there are--the Veterans Administration
there is a lot of people that are trying to do what is best.
Unfortunately, the higher you get up the more convoluted it
gets and people start protecting institutional equities and not
the veterans. That does not happen here in La Crosse and it
does not happen over in Tomah either for whatever you have
heard.
I just want to be crystal clear that I am exceptionally
proud of our people that work at the VA in particular in the
health care side because, I mean, look at me. Spring chicken
right here.
You guys are a key component, especially our VSOs and our
CVSOs. We have to be able to sit across the table and if that
has to be at the bar across the street or if it is an office in
a county building, and look each other in the eye because then
we are going to know if something is okay or something is
wrong.
Every single person here that has managed a single troop
can look at a sailor or a soldier, an airman or a Marine in the
eye for a millisecond and go, hey, dude or gal, sit down, get a
cup of coffee and tell me what is going on.
Without a direct connection from the VFW, from the American
Legion, Disabled Veterans of America, and all these groups, and
without our CVSOs we are going to keep having a problem with
our veterans committing suicide because they are disconnected.
I want you to walk away, and I kind of thought we are going
to yell at people because I am good at that--I want you to walk
away today understanding that there are people in the Federal
Government that are trying to help and I also want you to walk
away with the complete understanding that we know that we fall
short a lot and we recognize that.
With that said, I want to thank Ranking Member Levin for
coming out from the great State of California. I want to thank
Congressman Grothman from coming out from the even greater
State of Wisconsin and for everybody here that has come out.
With that--sorry, I have to say some more magic words. Here
they are.
I ask unanimous consent that all members may have five
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include
extraneous materials. Without objection so ordered.
This hearing is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:48 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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A P P E N D I X
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Prepared Statements of Witnesses
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Prepared Statement of Duane Honeycutt
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished members
of the Subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to appear before you
today to discuss the transitioning Service members' experience with the
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and the services and benefits
available to them. Accompanying me today is Melissa Cohen, Executive
Director, Outreach, Transition, and Economic Development, and Nick
Pamperin, Executive Director, Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E)
Service. I want to express my appreciation for your continued support
of the Nation's Veterans, their families, caregivers, and survivors.
Within VA, our focus is on increasing transparency, improving
collaboration, and keeping Veterans at the center of everything we do.
Transition Support
Transition Assistance Program
Established in 1991, the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) is an
interagency effort designed to help more than 200,000 transitioning
Service members annually. Through TAP, VA partners with the Departments
of Defense (DoD), Education, Homeland Security, and Labor, the Small
Business Administration, and the Office of Personnel Management.
Together, we help to equip Service members with the tools they need to
succeed in civilian life and connect them to the benefits and services
they have earned and deserve. In partnership, we take a comprehensive
approach to care, ensuring that TAP is a tailored program that evolves
with the changing needs of the transitioning Service members.
As part of TAP, VA works to inform transitioning Service members of
the education and training benefits available to them. Specifically for
the VR&E benefit, Module 4 (titled ``Getting Career Ready''), presented
during the mandatory VA Benefits and Services course, provides a
comprehensive overview of VR&E and education benefits, and discusses
how to apply for VR&E services online, by mail, and in person.
Further, the VA Education Benefits Military Life Cycle (MLC) module
enables VA to connect with Service members well before transition so
they can gain an early understanding of their benefits and plan for
their futures. This module also overviews VA education benefits and the
VR&E Program. The Online Resource Guide provides VA.gov links to apply
for VR&E directly.
VA Benefits and Services course and the VA Education Benefits MLC
Module also provide information about the GI Bill Comparison Tool. This
tool enables Service members to research approved schools and
employers. Moreover, during the VA Benefits and Services course,
Benefits Advisors discuss the importance of using the GI Bill
Comparison Tool to locate institutions that accept the GI Bill, compare
the benefits of chosen institutions, and learn which Veterans programs
are available at their selected institutions.
During DoD Capstone, a mandatory component of the TAP process, a
commander or commander's designee verifies that the transitioning
Service member has met TAP Career Readiness Standards, has a viable
Individual Transition Plan (ITP), and is prepared to transition to
civilian life. During this process, Benefits Advisors are available to
support individual Service members who have questions or need
assistance with VA education benefits. Benefits Advisors assist with
connecting Service members with VA's Personalized Career and Planning
Guidance (PCPG) Program and VR&E, and with researching available
Veteran programs on the campus the member plans to attend.
VA TAP also provides one-on-one sessions with a Benefits Advisor,
offering Service members individualized assistance. One-on-one
assistance sessions are based on the individual's needs and are driven
by the information covered during the VA Benefits and Services course.
The typical discussion topics include housing insecurity, education
benefits, and disability compensation. In Fiscal Year (FY) 2023, VA
conducted more than 53,000 one-on-one sessions, with more than 43
percent (22,800+ Service members) of those sessions including
discussions on education and training program benefits. More than 14
percent (7,400+ Service members) of these sessions also discussed VR&E
services.
VA Solid Start
The VA Solid Start (VASS) Program launched on December 2, 2019, as
part of the Military to Civilian Readiness Pathway, to make early,
consistent, and caring contact with newly separated Veterans. With the
signing of VASS law (P.L 117-205) on October 17, 2022, VA is
permanently authorized to expand VASS with DoD coordination. VASS calls
all eligible Veterans at three key stages (90-, 180-, and 365 days
post-separation) during their first year after separation from active
duty. Using data provided by DoD, VASS provides priority contact to
Veterans, meeting certain mental health risk factors, supporting
continuity of care, and lowering any barriers to access to mental
health care treatment and support through VA. VASS representatives
address challenges the Veteran may be facing at the time of the call by
connecting the Veteran with the appropriate benefits or resources for
assistance. These representatives receive special training to recognize
the signs of crisis and, when needed, can provide a direct transfer to
the Veterans Crisis Line for additional support.
VASS agents have the necessary access, information, and training to
support to recently separated Service members with VR&E-related issues
and concerns. When appropriate, based on the Veteran's specific
situation at the time of the VASS engagement, VASS agents will discuss
the possible availability of VR&E benefits to assist with the issue or
concern raised by the Veteran. In calendar year (CY) 2023, VASS
provided information on VR&E over 62,500 times.
From the program launch in December 2019 through July 2024, VASS
has successfully connected with 501,640 (73.7 percent) recently
separated Veterans, helping them connect with the benefits and services
they have earned. For example, in CY 2023, of Veterans who had a
successful VASS connection, 1.13 percent applied for VR&E benefits,
60.24 percent applied for Education benefits, and 0.05 percent applied
for PCPG benefits. Veterans who did not have a successful connection
with VASS had utilization rates of 0.43 percent, 32.56 percent, and
0.03 percent, respectively. Additionally, in July 2023, VASS launched a
VSignals survey to assess Veteran satisfaction with the VASS program
and since the launch, VASS-eligible Veterans evaluated their
satisfaction with the VASS program as 4.5 on a 5-point Likert scale.
Personalized Career Planning and Guidance (PCPG) Program
The PCPG Program, also known as Chapter 36 services, fulfills 38
U.S.C. Sec. 3697A requirements by supporting transitioning Service
members, Veterans, and qualified dependents. PCPG services are designed
to provide participants with personalized counseling and support to
help guide career paths, ensure the most effective use of VA benefits,
and achieve educational and career goals.
The PCPG Program provides career and education counseling to
transitioning Service members within 6 months of leaving the military,
Veterans who have left the military within the past 12 months, or at
any time to individuals eligible to use a VA education benefit. PCPG
career and education counseling services include resume support,
education and employment planning, detailed skills assessment, a
personalized action plan to achieve education and career goals,
adjustment counseling to transition to civilian employment
successfully, and a direct connection to VA benefits and services. For
Fiscal Year 2024 through July 2024, PCPG received 7,308 applications
requesting PCPG services. Since Fiscal Year 2022, PCPG has seen an
increase in applications received. In Fiscal Year 2022, it was 6,665
applications received and in Fiscal Year 2023, PCPG received 7,714
applications for services.
Milwaukee Regional Office Outreach to Transitioning Service members
The Milwaukee Regional Office (RO) maintains a strong outreach
presence across the Wisconsin, including transitioning Service members.
During FY 2023, the RO participated in 14 Reserve and Guard outreach
events and six to date in Fiscal Year 2024, assisting Veterans and
transitioning Service members at events such as resource fairs and
Yellow Ribbon Programs throughout the State. Specific to the La Crosse
area, the Milwaukee RO has participated in the La Crosse Veterans
Bonanza event, hailed as the ``largest Veteran event in the tri-State
area,'' for the past 2 years, and which is typically held the first
weekend in November. Last year, the Milwaukee RO reached approximately
300 individuals at the event, providing information and assistance on
VA benefits and services. In Fiscal Year 2024, the Milwaukee RO active-
duty outreach has resulted in over 3,000 direct engagements with
Veterans.
Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) Program Overview
The VR&E Program's mission is to assist Service members and
Veterans with a service-connected disability that limits their ability
to work or prevents them from working to prepare for, find, and
maintain suitable careers or maintain a life of independence. VR&E
achieves this mission by providing Veterans with hands-on counseling
services to ensure Veteran's goals are not only achievable but
attained. VR&E employs nearly 1,000 professional vocational
rehabilitation counselors (VRC) and delivers services through a network
of almost 350 office locations. Our service delivery model works to
support Veterans where they are located and includes operations at all
56 ROs, approximately 142 out-based sites, 70 Integrated Disability
Evaluation System (IDES) installations, and 104 VetSuccess on Campus
(VSOC) schools/campuses.
The Milwaukee VR&E division continues to demonstrate strong
performance in support of Veterans, encouraging and counseling them
toward continued education and career goals. There are VR&E out-based
offices in Wisconsin (Eau Claire, Green Bay, and Madison), and a VSOC
Program at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.
The Milwaukee RO regularly provides training and monthly briefings
to county Veterans Service Officers and Veterans Service Organization
partners about all aspects of RO operations, including VR&E. For Fiscal
Year 2024, as of July 16, 2024, there have been over 861 VR&E
applicants with 159 positive outcomes and 135 employment
rehabilitations for Veterans in Wisconsin. Positive outcomes indicate
successful program completion.
VR&E Benefits
VR&E benefits are available for Veterans who received an honorable
or other than dishonorable discharge, have a VA service-connected
disability rating of at least 10 percent or more, and apply for
services. After eligibility is found, entitlement must be determined
and is based on the establishment that barriers to employment exist
resulting from a service-connected disability. For those rated at 10
percent, barriers of a more severe nature must be established.
Active-duty Service members are eligible for the VR&E Program if
they expect to receive an honorable discharge upon separation from
active duty, apply for VR&E services, and have a proposed IDES rating
from VA. Section 1631 of P.L. 110-181 authorized VR&E eligibility and
automatic entitlement for Service members with a severe injury or
illness before a VA rating is issued. Section 126 of P.L. 115-251 made
this authority permanent on September 29, 2018. From October 2023
through June 2024, 11,612 Service members have a plan of VR&E service
through the VR&E IDES Program. Of these, 9,318 have separated from the
military and are currently using their VR&E benefits, while 2,294
remain in service and are at various stages in the VR&E Program. This
participation allows Service members to identify their career goals and
established a plan of VR&E service upon transitioning from the
military.
Additionally, in Fiscal Year 2024, 4,664 Service members began
receiving services through IDES but discontinued the VR&E program,
while 850 completed their rehabilitation through the VR&E IDES program.
In total, 17,126 Service members received or continue to receive VR&E
services through IDES in 2024.
During Fiscal Year 2023, VR&E provided services to 132,687 Veterans
and Service members, as well as achieved 17,135 positive outcomes for
Veterans and paid over $1.6 billion in benefits. As of June 30, 2024,
VR&E currently has 158,897 Veteran participants with 93,661 enrolled in
Long-Term Services. This is a significant increase of 20 percent since
the August 2022 implementation of the Sergeant First Class Heath
Robinson Honoring our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT)
Act of 2022 (P.L. 117-168). Approximately 12 percent of our current
participants have toxic exposure related disabilities, and this is
expected to increase over the next few years. VBA continues to utilize
the multi-year Toxic Exposures Fund appropriations to reduce claims
inventory and restore pre-pandemic timeliness. VBA's aggressive hiring
initiatives resulted in an increase of more than 18 percent in Fiscal
Year 2023 allowing VBA to significantly increase claims processing
capacity. VBA also continues to work closely with military archivists
to obtain access to records at the National Archives and Records
Administration and at their branch archival facilities to support claim
research and is adding additional staff to accelerate research requests
with military partners.
The need for VR&E services has increased in recent years. When
comparing Fiscal Year 2022 to Fiscal Year 2023, there was a 29.8
percent growth in applications and a 27 percent increase in Veterans
entering benefits plans. In Fiscal Year 2024, VR&E is expecting an
additional 23 percent increase in Veteran applications and an
additional 5 percent growth in separating Service members. Year over
year, the number of eligible applicants processed in Milwaukee has been
increasing. For example, last calendar year, from January to June 2023,
the local division received 815 eligible applications. During the same
time in 2024, the Milwaukee local division received 861 eligible
applications. As of June 30, 2024, there are 1,339 Veterans
participating in the VR&E Program in Wisconsin.
The VR&E Division continues its active involvement with the
Wisconsin Department of Workforce Development. In addition to assisting
Veterans who are ``actively seeking employment,'' the Milwaukee RO
collaborates with Federal, State, county, and city partners. In Fiscal
Year 2024, as of July 31, 2024, the RO assisted Veterans with job
placement into 20 Federal, three State, three county, and six city
positions. Recognition of outstanding VR&E counselors from the
Milwaukee RO has been received from Veterans describing exceptional and
responsive services and kind care to assist them with training and
education in new career paths. As one Veteran stated, his VR&E
counselor motivated and pushed him to do better than he believed he
could. He completed his degree and began a new career in construction
safety management. He stated his VR&E counselor provided him dignity
and direction for a positive future.
VetSuccess on Campus
The VSOC Program is designed to help student Veterans succeed and
thrive through a coordinated delivery of on-campus benefits assistance
and counseling. The goal is to ensure that student Veterans complete
their education with the preparation necessary to enter the labor
market into viable careers. The VSOC Program offers various benefits to
eligible individuals including adjustment counseling, vocational
testing, educational and career counseling, and VA benefits coaching.
However, VSOC counselors will try to assist all student Veterans,
Service members, and Veteran dependents by referring them to other
resources and helping them register for healthcare services, regardless
of VA benefit eligibility, utilization, or enrollment status. In Fiscal
Year 2023, VSOC counselors had 20,043 contacts with Veterans, Service
members, and Veterans' dependents nationwide. From the beginning of
Fiscal Year 2024 until July 1, 2024, VSOC counselors have had 15,412
contacts with Veterans, Service members, and dependents nationwide.
Another component of the VSOC Program is the outreach efforts to
connect student Veterans with information about training and employment
services available under Chapter 31. VSOC counselors present
information about VR&E and other VA services at all new student
orientations on VSOC campuses, and other events where student Veterans
may be present. Career fairs, resume workshops, and student
organization meetings are examples of other outreach events a VSOC
counselor may host or attend. VSOC counselors are the ``face of VA''
and make referrals to other VA and non-VA services, such as VA health
care, disability services, financial aid, debt management, and peer
mentoring programs.
VSOC counselors are vital to ensuring that the student Veterans can
effectively use their earned benefits to attend school and receive the
most value out of their entitlement. A VSOC counselor on campus
strengthens VA's partnership with the school. It improves VA's
opportunity to provide outreach and transition services during a
student Veteran's or Service member's transition from the military to
college life. VRCs and VSOC counselors are also available to assist
dependents using VA benefits.
The Milwaukee VR&E division has an ongoing presence at the
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee campus through the VSOC Program. The
VSOC counselor has assisted over 166 students in Fiscal Year 2023
through June 2024.
Veteran Employment
VA recognizes that there are more needs to be met in the employment
space to ensure that Veterans are ready to enter the labor market upon
completion of the VR&E Program as well as receive all the assistance
necessary to obtain suitable employment. To support this identified
need, VA works with the Department of Labor Veterans' Employment and
Training Service for more time sensitive, local labor market and job
referral expertise for Veterans enrolled in the VR&E program. In June,
VA embarked on an employment pilot for VR&E focused on standardizing
training and improving the consistency of the employment coordinator
(EC) function. The pilot consists of a total of eight ROs (two per
district). The EC position is critical in assisting Veterans achieve
suitable employment. In Fiscal Year 2023, with the assistance of the
nationally located ECs, VR&E achieved 17,134 positive outcomes and
10,686 employment outcomes. At the Milwaukee RO, ECs assisted in
achieving a positive outcome for 170 Veterans in Fiscal Year 2023, of
which 126 of those received an employment outcome. This pilot will
leverage labor market expertise to focus on education and training
Veterans for in-demand jobs; expanding specialized partnerships with
employers through the increased utilization of non-paid work experience
(NPWE); on-the-job training (OJT); apprenticeships; and special
employer incentives (SEI). Introducing this consistency in the use of
ECs is designed to improve customer service, business partnerships, and
consultative services between VR&E staff, resulting in the development
of more well-supported rehabilitation plans and increased employment
outcomes. It is anticipated the pilot will run for 7 months. At the
conclusion of the pilot, VA expects that Veterans will have improved
access to NPWE, OJT, apprenticeship, and SEI opportunities.
VR&E Longitudinal Study Report 2023
The Longitudinal Study, required by 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3122, follows
three cohorts of former participants over a 20-year period and details
the current employment metrics of individuals who complete the program.
The primary goal of the Longitudinal Study is to determine the long-
term outcomes in four major areas: employment, income, home ownership,
and use of other programs and services. The Longitudinal Study\1\ is
published annually, and findings suggest stability and better outcomes
for rehabilitated Veterans compared to Veterans who discontinued their
VR&E Program, as well as steady improvement of post-program outcomes
over time. The 2023 Longitudinal Study finds that the median annual
income of rehabilitated Veterans is $95,000, which is 67 percent higher
than that of Veterans who did not complete the VR&E program.
Additionally, rehabilitated Veterans have home ownership rates of 76
percent, which is 15 percentage points higher than Veterans who do not
complete the program. VA recognizes that individuals who choose to
discontinue the program may have characteristics that are distinct from
those who achieve rehabilitation, limiting the lessons that can be
learned from the study. Moreover, the VR&E Longitudinal Study lacks a
comparison group, so it is not possible to attribute any differences in
Veterans' outcomes to participating in the program.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ VR&E Longitudinal Study--Veteran Readiness and Employment
(VR&E) (va.gov) (Found at https://www.benefits.va.gov/VOCREHAB/
VRELongitudinalStudy.asp).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
VR&E Staffing, Recruitment, and Retention
The VR&E Service has placed emphasis on the recruitment and
retention of staff to ensure the quality delivery of service. In July
2023, VR&E expanded the qualifying education requirement to be a
counselor by accepting five additional Master's degrees which have
duties closely aligned with a counselor's duties. This effort increased
the number of individuals eligible to deliver VR&E benefits. Since the
expansion of the degrees accepted, VR&E field staff has grown, and
recently, VR&E completed new counselor training for 68 new counselors,
the largest training class in VR&E history.
Additionally, a new position has been added to support case
management of Veterans in the Chapter 31 program. The Vocational
Rehabilitation Specialist position provides direct case management
services to Veterans, ensures timely payments, addresses academic
issues, and ensures Veterans have access to professional services.
VR&E added over 260 new vocational rehabilitation counselors and
specialist staff to address the dramatic growth in the VR&E Program
since the passage of the PACT Act. This additional staff reduces the
ratio of counselors to Veterans to 1:115, ensuring compliance with the
legislative requirements in section 254 of P.L. 114-223. The additional
staff will ensure that Veterans in the VR&E Program have access to
their counselor and the benefits and services they earned and deserve.
Technology to Improve the Veteran Experience
VR&E is implementing technology improvements to reduce staff
administrative tasks as well as improve the Veteran experience. VR&E
modernized its electronic virtual assistant (e-VA) to allow counselors
to send all letters and forms directly to their clients. Veterans also
gained the ability to sign and return documents to VA electronically.
The integration of e-VA with the Veterans Benefits Management System,
and the integration with Veterans Benefits Administration's Package
Manager/e-VA streamlines administrative tasks for counselors, freeing
up an average of 10 hours per week per counselor. This efficiency
benefits Veterans by allowing counselors to dedicate more time to
providing personalized support and expediting case processing. Since
the implementation of e-VA, Veterans are now being placed into plans of
service, on average, 46 days faster, ensuring quicker access to vital
resources. Additionally, e-VA facilitates improved communication
channels between staff and Veterans, enhancing accessibility and
support beyond traditional means. With the deployment in May 2024,
these advancements underscore a commitment to enhancing Veterans'
experiences through efficient, technology-driven solutions.
The Readiness and Employment System (RES) will replace VR&E's 25-
year-old legacy case management system with a web-based platform that
integrates over 20 VA systems and data sources to deliver services and
benefits to veterans more timely and efficiently. The legacy system
needs many of VA's modernization efforts such as the document
repository and training facilities data base. RES automates repeatable
administrative processes, saving staff time interacting with the
Veterans they serve. The system will automate complex awards
calculations for more accurate payments to Veterans while providing
intelligent document handling that eliminates staff needing to
download, upload, or email individual documents. This new system,
through technology, will reduce the administrative functions of
counselors, allowing them to focus on counseling Veterans, including
creating practical training and independent living plan.
Conclusion
VA appreciates Congress' continued support in improving our support
for transitioning Service members and the benefits available to them.
VA remains committed to increasing transparency and continuing
collaboration with you and our stakeholders. Mr. Chairman, this
concludes my statement. My colleagues and I would be happy to answer
any questions you or other members of the Subcommittee may have.
Prepared Statement of Joe Quackenboss
As a military veteran, transitioning from active duty to civilian
life is a journey filled with both challenges and opportunities,
especially when it comes to navigating the academic landscape. My
experience transitioning both on and off the school campus has been a
mix of triumphs and tribulations, but through it all, I've identified
key areas where support from various entities could significantly
enhance the process for veterans like myself.
On campus, one of the biggest hurdles I faced was adjusting to the
academic environment. Coming from a structured military setting to the
more independent and sometimes overwhelming nature of college classes
was a significant shift. Many veterans, myself included, could benefit
from tailored orientation programs that not only introduce us to
academic resources but also provide guidance on time management, study
skills, and access to tutoring services.
Furthermore, the Department of Veteran Affairs (VA) plays a crucial
role in supporting veterans through educational benefits. While the GI
Bill offers valuable assistance, the bureaucracy and delays in
processing claims can be frustrating and discouraging. Streamlining the
application and disbursement process would alleviate stress and ensure
that veterans receive their entitled benefits in a timely manner.
In addition to institutional support, veteran service organizations
(VSOs) are invaluable resources for veterans transitioning to civilian
life. These organizations offer a sense of camaraderie, peer support,
and access to valuable resources such as career counseling, networking
opportunities, and mental health services. However, greater
collaboration between VSOs and educational institutions could enhance
their impact by ensuring that veterans are aware of and connected to
these vital resources from the moment they step foot on campus.
Community members also have a role to play in supporting veterans
during their transition. Employers, for instance, can implement veteran
hiring initiatives and provide mentorship programs to help veterans
navigate the civilian job market. Moreover, fostering a culture of
understanding and appreciation for veterans within the community can
combat stigma and create a more inclusive environment for
reintegration.
In conclusion, the transition from military service to civilian
life, particularly within the academic setting, is a complex process
that requires support from multiple stakeholders. By improving access
to resources, streamlining bureaucratic processes, fostering
collaboration between institutions and organizations, and cultivating a
supportive community environment, we can enhance the transition
experience for veterans and ensure they thrive in their post-service
endeavors.
Prepared Statement of Dustin Schultz
My name is Dustin Schultz, I am a Veteran Specialist for Western
Technical College and have been in this position for 3 years. Prior to
this role, I was a Veteran Service Officer and a nonprofit Director for
a Veteran Mentorship Program where we worked with our local Veterans
Treatment Court and justice involved veterans. Last, I am also an
honorably discharged US Army Veteran and served overseas during
Operation Iraqi Freedom. I will be providing remarks on the struggles
I've witnessed as service members transition from the military.
Current programs like Transition Assistance Program and the Yellow
Ribbon Reintegration Program (TAP/ YRRP) are great tools for helping
service members transition into education or employment.
However, senior leadership are often beyond this stage in
their life. Officers already have a college degree, and senior
noncommissioned officers often elect to transfer their education
benefits to their dependents. Retiring senior leadership may choose not
to return to the workforce at all.
This is a disconnect between those providing these
preventative services and the lower enlisted service members
who do not share the same circumstances.
From my experience, lower enlisted service members
struggle to transition the most.
Veterans report that timing is a problem for current
transitional services. They see these programs as a series of ``check
boxes'' positioned between them and their release from the military.
This causes participation to be rushed, service
members are not honest about what issues they may have to deal
with upon their return, or do not foresee the challenges ahead
of them.
Veterans report that these programs are provided at
the end of the service members' time in the military and don't
allow for much time to consider what challenges may arise in
transitioning.
I believe there should be efforts to start
transitional services much earlier in the service
member's career.
Service members are returning to a home where parents, a
spouse, or other loved ones have taken on some of their
responsibilities in their absence.
They may struggle to find their role in the home
leading to relationship issues like divorce and thus
compounding emotional, financial, and social hardship.
Services could include families who are
critical to successful transition and help prevent
compounding issues.
Current services and programs seem to lack follow up
after leaving the military.
This can leave the veteran feeling discarded or
devalued.
Coordination with other services or programs
Thousands of nonprofit organizations that can help.
Services or support that is not specific to veterans
are overlooked. I have had veterans that are not aware that
they can apply for FAFSA.
I believe we need more of a case management approach that is
proactively assessing the service members and their families as they
transition back into civilian life.
Incorporate all effective forms of support such as
faith-based programs, peer support and other options that are
personalized to the individual.
Exit services could be provided by a ``reintegration
counselor'' similar to the Veteran Readiness & Employment
program (Chapter 31) who can assist the service member or
connect them to appropriate resources.
Veteran suicides each day are alarming figures, but do
not include those that die of accidental death due to other things like
poor decision-making, recklessness or unintentional drug overdose.
The service member doesn't know how they will handle
the freedoms of civilian life until they experience it.
I feel there should be additional emphasis on
making good decisions and minimizing risky behavior.
Last, education benefits are a major reason many decide
to join the military and often the first endeavor for service members
after transition. A common issue people report is financial instability
due to pro-rated housing payments.
For instance, if a student begins a Spring term on
January 8th, the VA will prorate their monthly housing stipend
and reduce the housing payment. When the term ends, the payment
is again pro-rated to exclude any days of the month the student
is not enrolled.
I believe these inconsistent payments cause
undue hardship on student veterans and their families.
Thank you.
Prepared Statement of Danielle Luba
House of Representatives, Committee on Veteran Affairs, and
Congressman Van Orden,
Thank you for the opportunity to speak on my behalf in regard to my
transition from the military to my civilian life. I would like to first
explain that I am an almost 17 year veteran of the worlds greatest Air
Force. Most of my career has been as an Air National Guard member. I
have always worn two hats; my military cover, and my civilian life.
They both coexist with one another.
My transition to using my educational military benefits was a
challenge for myself. For most your entire young life into adulthood is
controlled by someone else. They help to make the decision of your day-
to-day life. When you join the military, you are shifting it from a
family members job to help you decide to the military making those
decisions for you. They set your day for you based on what is best for
the mission. When I was given the opportunity post training, I
immediately enrolled into WTC for school. I had no idea what I was
doing. I just kept hearing ``this is your opportunity, take it and run
with it.'' And in the ideal world of knowing exactly what you want that
would've worked out perfectly. I spent 2 years using my GI Bill for a
career that I don't think I ever wanted. I then proceeded to continue
to use it at a 4-year university with the same outcome.
It wasn't until my first deployment in 2012 that I had time to sit
and think, in a once again extremely structured environment, that I
found what my forever idea was. After I returned, I continued to
another 4-year school and completed my bachelor's degree. One of the
main benefits that the military will use as a recruiting tool is ``your
school is paid for.'' And that statement is correct if you have the
proper guidance to ensure it is used correctly.
Here I sit an almost 17-year veteran, with over $30,000 in student
loan debt. I am very grateful for the opportunity to serve my county
and do what I am doing, but it would've been nice to have better
guidance when I was younger. They always say ``once you get older you
will understand.'' I know fully understand the need for proper
assistance when someone is beginning the chapter for their educational
benefits.
I would like to thank you for your time and listening to my life
experience.
Prepared Statement of Kaytlyn Brown
I served active duty in the Navy from November 2014 to September
2023. I started the transition from being an active duty Sailor to a
civilian in December 2022.
I opted to do the in person TAPs class in Naval Station Norfolk. I
didn't find the week long class to be overly helpful since majority of
the required topics that had to be covered were merely skimmed over
with in person guest speakers to not be knowledgeable enough to answer
majority of the questions that were asked me and fellow transition
military members. The guest speakers just ``regurgitated'' what was on
the slides in the PowerPoint that was shown to us by the speaker. The
class has good intentions, but it is not nearly long as it should be to
ensure that we have a good understanding in what is available to us
while transitioning and to us as we became veterans.
My transition experience with my last command was not pleasant for
me. My leadership was not very helpful. I ended my contract on a
obliserve. I took 76 days of ``separation'' leave which took me from
the 10th of July 2023 to the end of my contract on the 23d of September
2023. When I had to file my leave chit, my obliserve accumulated leave
days were not in the system and I had to provide many extra documents
to prove that I had those the days to take for leave. Many of the
leadership that had to approve my chit, didn't understand or simply
didn't care to read the provided documents to understand my situation
and kept rejecting it until I finally begged an E-7 that technically
wasn't in my chain of command to help me and explain it to the people
who kept rejecting my request for leave. That E-7 got leave chit
approved for me.
My next biggest issue was dealing Suddath for shipping my personal
household goods from Hampton, Virginia to Warrens, Wisconsin. The
movers in VA didn't know how to pack things, so my mother and I had to
go in behind them and repackage fragile items, such as glassware and
dinnerware. They stood on my washing machine, that survived two prior
moves in the area, and I had to bend the lid back close to its original
shape. They placed one of my TVs in a way that the screen broke. And on
top of it all, I was never able to get reimbursed for my damaged items
because they changed their system and I couldn't get into it and submit
anything cause they were asking for codes and numbers that I didn't
have.
I thank you for your time and for the opportunity to share my
experience of transitioning from active duty to being a civilian.
Kaytlyn M. Brown
Prepared Statement of Adrian Moreno
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Statements for the Record
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Prepared Statement of Disabled American Veterans
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