[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
ASSESSING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
RESPONSE TO THE 2023 MAUI WILDFIRES
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT OPERATIONS
AND THE FEDERAL WORKFORCE
of the
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND ACCOUNTABILITY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 4, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-127
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Accountability
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available on: govinfo.gov
oversight.house.gov or
docs.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-883 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND ACCOUNTABILITY
JAMES COMER, Kentucky, Chairman
Jim Jordan, Ohio Jamie Raskin, Maryland, Ranking
Mike Turner, Ohio Minority Member
Paul Gosar, Arizona Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of
Virginia Foxx, North Carolina Columbia
Glenn Grothman, Wisconsin Stephen F. Lynch, Massachusetts
Michael Cloud, Texas Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Gary Palmer, Alabama Raja Krishnamoorthi, Illinois
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Ro Khanna, California
Pete Sessions, Texas Kweisi Mfume, Maryland
Andy Biggs, Arizona Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, New York
Nancy Mace, South Carolina Katie Porter, California
Jake LaTurner, Kansas Cori Bush, Missouri
Pat Fallon, Texas Shontel Brown, Ohio
Byron Donalds, Florida Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Scott Perry, Pennsylvania Robert Garcia, California
William Timmons, South Carolina Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Greg Casar, Texas
Lisa McClain, Michigan Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Dan Goldman, New York
Russell Fry, South Carolina Jared Moskowitz, Florida
Anna Paulina Luna, Florida Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
Nick Langworthy, New York Ayanna Pressley, Massachusetts
Eric Burlison, Missouri
Mike Waltz, Florida
------
Mark Marin, Staff Director
Jessica Donlon, Deputy Staff Director and General Counsel
Bill Womack, Senior Advisor
Alex Rankin, Professional Staff Member
Mallory Cogar, Deputy Director of Operations and Chief Clerk
Contact Number: 202-225-5074
Julie Tagen, Minority Staff Director
Contact Number: 202-225-5051
------
Subcommittee on Government Operations and the Federal Workforce
Pete Sessions, Texas, Chairman
Gary Palmer, Alabama Kweisi Mfume, Maryland Ranking
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Minority Member
Andy Biggs, Arizona Eleanor Holmes Norton, District of
Byron Donalds, Florida Columbia
William Timmons, South Carolina Maxwell Frost, Florida
Tim Burchett, Tennessee Greg Casar, Texas
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Gerald E. Connolly, Virginia
Lauren Boebert, Colorado Melanie Stansbury, New Mexico
Russell Fry, South Carolina Robert Garcia, California
Eric Burlison, Missouri Summer Lee, Pennsylvania
Vacancy Jasmine Crockett, Texas
Rashida Tlaib, Michigan
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on September 4, 2024................................ 1
Witnesses
----------
Panel 1 - Federal Witnesses
Mr. Bob Fenton, Regional Administrator (Region 9), Federal
Emergency
Management Agency
Oral Statement................................................... 11
Col. Eric Swenson, Commander, St. Paul District, U.S. Army Corps
of
Engineers
Oral Statement................................................... 13
Mr. Francisco Sanchez, Jr., Associate Administrator, Office of
Disaster
Recovery & Resilience, Small Business Administration
Oral Statement................................................... 16
Ms. Cheree Peterson, Deputy Regional Administrator (Region 9),
Environmental Protection Agency
Oral Statement................................................... 18
Panel 2 - Local Witnesses
Major General Kenneth Hara, Adjutant General, State of Hawaii
Oral Statement................................................... 39
Mr. Richard Bissen, Mayor, Maui County, Hawaii
Oral Statement................................................... 40
Ms. Lauren Nahme, Senior Vice President, Maui Recovery Office,
Hawaii Community Foundation
Oral Statement................................................... 42
Mr. Keeaumoku Kapu, President & CEO, Na Aikane o Maui
Oral Statement................................................... 44
Mr. Sne Patel, Board President, LahainaTown Action Committee
Oral Statement................................................... 46
Written opening statements and statements for the witnesses are
available
on the U.S. House of Representatives Document Repository
at: docs.house.gov.
Index of Documents
----------
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Anonymous.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Councilmember
Tamara Paltin.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Dave.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Debra Engel
Michalek.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Guinrvero.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Jackie Keefe.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Katheryn Wilson.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Lorien ``Lolo''
Acquintas.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Lorrie Betsill
Nielson.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Mark Paranada.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Representative
Elle
Cochran.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Star Fernandez
Beechick.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Susie Richter.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Tammy A.
Perkins.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Tom Roy.
* Statement for the Record, September 4, 2024, Sharon Scott.
* Statement for the Record, by Rep. Ellie Cochran; submitted by
Rep. Jill Naomi Tokuda.
* Report, Maui Exposure Study, MWES; submitted by Rep. Tokuda.
* Report, Maui-Together-Assessment, HSRHA; submitted by Rep.
Tokuda.
* Letter, August 7, 2024; submitted by Rep. Tokuda.
Documents are available at: docs.house.gov.
ASSESSING THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT'S
RESPONSE TO THE 2023 MAUI WILDFIRES
----------
Wednesday, September 4, 2024
U.S. House of Representatives
Committee on Oversight and Accountability
Subcommittee on Government Operations and the Federal
Workforce
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:01 a.m.
Hawaii, Lahaina Civic Center, Social Hall, 1840 Honoapiilani
Highway (HI-30), Lahania, Hawaii, Hon. Pete Sessions [Chairman
of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Sessions and Porter.
Also present: Representatives Jill Naomi Tokuda and Ed
Case.
Mr. Sessions. The room will come to order.
Good morning. This hearing this morning is part of the
official business of the U.S. House of Representatives. This
hearing is of the Subcommittee on Government Operations and the
Federal Workforce, and we will come to order.
I would like to welcome each and every one of you who are
here today for this important event.
Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any
time.
I recognize myself for the purpose of making an opening
statement.
My opening statement is, is that I am delighted that the
community has come to this hearing today. We have very
specifically received not only the gracious warm welcome of the
Mayor, but also many of you, and my colleagues also who are
from this island. This island is made up of beautiful people
with a rich heritage. And we, all of us as Members of Congress,
come here with great respect for you.
I want to say to you and each of you and my colleagues at
the House of Representatives, U.S. Congress, but also to people
of the United States of America, we watched with horror of the
scenes, but you lived through it. It was you who had to suffer,
not only the problems that happened so quickly, that enveloped
and took lives, but also that night who had to take count of
where you were. As Americans we watched this, and we were
horrified.
And so, we today join with you, as my colleagues, to come
here I think at an appropriate time to not only say what we
want to hear about this but to let you know that we care about
you. We care, each of my colleagues that care about what
happens not only here and the rebuilding, but they care about
each of you not just as a people, but the lives that are lived
here. So, I think it is important that the way that you greeted
us we return that back to you and say thank you.
I am pleased to be joined today by the Ranking Member for
this hearing, the gentlewoman from California, Congresswoman
Porter. Both she and I are making this trip because we feel
compelled to come and not only hear what we need to hear, but
to make this trip to assess for our Subcommittee the things
which we might learn which may help others in the future.
I am also grateful for the assistance of my dear friend, Ed
Case. Congressman Case represents Hawaii's First congressional
District, and he is here with me.
Ed, thank you for taking the time to be here.
And I want to give special mention to Congresswoman Tokuda,
who the people of this beautiful Lahaina have had her in her
prayers and dreams but in her hard work for a long, long time.
Thank you for taking time and to greet us as we got together
last night to learn more about her thoughts and her ideas.
She is equally a part of this success in what we are doing
here today. She also knows that the 1-year anniversary of the
fires that took 102 lives will not be forgotten and will be a
part of the discussion and on our memory and minds today.
But this is the jewel of the islands. We call this, because
I think you do, the jewel of Hawaiian history and of culture.
And from the people that I have spoken with that also were here
to help, they believe that.
On behalf of the House Oversight Committee, I want to
extend our condolences to those of you who had those that were
lost or injured, and express to you that I know that your loved
ones, friends, and neighbors in the community you represent
also today, and perhaps that is why we are here.
By traveling perhaps a long way, me from Texas, others who
came here from California, but those who represent the Federal
Government, FEMA and other agencies, they have been on the
ground here for a year. They feel like their lives have been
benefited because they gave a service back to people on this
island, and I wish to thank them at this time on behalf of the
U.S. Congress and the American people for their work, their
diligence, their honesty, and the reasons why they came were to
be of help. And I think that should not be forgotten.
So, a sincere thank you also goes to representatives of the
Maui County government and the Mayor's office and the Mayor who
is here with us today to make sure that what we are doing here
today is not just what we hear, that we respect you and say
thank you to you, but a working relationship that is being
pushed a little bit more by the U.S. Congress being here.
My Ranking Member, Mr. Mfume, who is from Maryland, cannot
be here today. As you may know, he represents the area where
the bridge fell in Baltimore Harbor. He has his own issue. And
so it is today that I say to you, Mr. Mfume, as the Ranking
Member of this Subcommittee, simply cannot be here, but wishes
that his--and he wants me to express his sincere wishes to each
one of you, as I have done and as each of my colleagues will
do, and certainly the point of view for the community itself.
We expect to hear back things that may not be foreign to us
but that will be very special to you, and we are open to
hearing that. I have heard from our members of the Federal
Government who are here working that they have tried to respect
not only the culture but the feedback from people, and I am
proud of this.
We also appreciate the need for housing, which existed
before the fire and certainly now. To hear the, all too
frequently, the sons and daughters of those who call Hawaii
home cannot afford to call it home for themselves anymore and
have had to seek other places. And we came to get a sense of
the beautiful history that this island and islands represent,
not just the culture, but the beauty that it represents.
Some elements are simply uniquely Hawaiian. Yesterday, my
staff from the government reform and oversight subcommittee,
both Republican and Democrat colleagues of ours, toured the
area to include sacred places to many people that are here on
these islands. And it was important that we got that knowledge
of the sensitivity, not only that each of you represent, but
that we need to acknowledge and respect, and we do. Some of
these elements are common to all of us, but some are very
special, and we respect that.
As I recollect the same case that I was aware of back on 9/
11, we were dealing with very difficult issues, the sensitivity
of people who lost thousands of lives. And while there is no
way to look at a brother or a son or a daughter or grandparents
or parents, there is the ability that we have to come and
listen and uniquely understand their loss and to give them a
sense of hope and confidence that us working together as
Americans we can make it work. But I understand and respect
what we may hear today.
I also want you to know that we have gathered together
witnesses that we believe represent the best of not only the
hard work that is being done here, but those who respect
hearing back from the community, hearing back from elected
officials. And while this may be a difficult part of the
process to make decisions, I spoke to the Mayor this morning
specifically and I said, ``Mr. Mayor, please know that while
there is much work to be done, there are also decisions that I
encourage you and your colleagues to be together so that it is
done properly.'' And the Mayor reminded me, ``Congressman
Sessions, if you get 10 people in a room, you may get 10
answers.'' And I respectfully said back to the Mayor, ``That is
why we respect the ability of local people to make local
decisions and to come up with an answer.''
This Subcommittee's work regarding disaster recovery really
began last year. It began last year with me as Chairman of the
Subcommittee, that is not only government operations, but it is
the Federal workforce, as we held a field hearing in Fort
Myers, Florida into the recovery of Hurricane Ian. And we were
very successful in not only approaching the community, but
listening. And I think that we are doing the right thing today.
Our intent in these hearings is now and was to specifically
open our ears and receive feedback. Feedback that may result
itself perhaps in FEMA or other organizations learning new
things, but the U.S. Congress seeing firsthand. The U.S.
Congress seeing firsthand about on a bipartisan basis how we
can work together on issues that are like this. Every disaster
is different, and every disaster has its unique circumstances.
Once again, that is part of the mission of this Subcommittee:
to be here to listen, to learn what was working, what might
need to be done, and the needs that we need to be aware of.
At the individual level, there are many that are seated
here who bring tears of grief and perhaps uncertainty. While we
cannot alleviate all the fears or take care of all the harm
that has happened, we are here to say that you have come to the
right place to hear a story. A story of a group of people who
came to try and help and to make better this island so that it
is better prepared for tomorrow, and that is why we are here.
We know that no Federal agency, indeed no human institution,
can address every concern. But we are here today under official
business to do our duty as best we see it. And I will tell you
it is being done, not just on a bipartisan basis, but it is
being done with us together.
I would like to, if I can at this time, recognize--I have
three colleagues from the Democratic Party. We refer to them as
the Minority, but they are colleagues of mine. Well, we refer
to each other in Majority and Minority. In this case today, I
want to recognize the gentlewoman from California, and she will
then offer the order in which she would choose to give the
opening statements, but to let you know that Congresswoman
Porter has taken time from the Subcommittee to represent what
we believe is important, and that is Mr. Mfume and these ideas,
to make sure you know that we see this together.
The gentlewoman is now recognized.
Ms. Porter. Thank you very much, Chairman Sessions.
I want to start by thanking the city of Lahaina. The island
of Maui, the civic center, and everyone--the Minority staff,
the Majority staff. It is a lot of work to bring Congress to
the American people, but field hearings, in my opinion, are one
of the most important things that Congress does, and maybe one
of the most underused things that we do. Our work is here with
the American people. Our work is not just in Washington, D.C.
So, it is a lot of work, and I want to appreciate the staff and
everyone, both local and from Washington, who made this field
hearing happen.
And thank Chairman Sessions for his leadership and his work
going back many, many months to plan and to hold this hearing
at the most appropriate time with the best possible set of
witnesses we could have to learn and understand how to move
forward.
As we all know too well in this room, 1 year ago our
country suffered a horrible tragedy when wildfire flames
engulfed Lahaina, destroying everything in their path. And the
damage was devastating. Families lost their homes, their
livelihoods, their communities and, for many, their loved ones.
We are here today in part to grieve with you and to
acknowledge those painful losses. But we are mostly here
looking forward, to reinforce the Federal Government's
continued commitment to helping Hawaii recover. When disaster
strikes, Americans show up for one another to rebuild what we
have lost. It matters how we rebuild and who we are rebuilding
for. Survivors and families still struggle to find stable,
affordable housing.
Many families were already experiencing an intense housing
crisis well before the wildfire a year ago. Competition with
tourists, mainlanders scooping up properties to rent as
vacation homes, combined with a lack of new construction played
a part in putting stable, affordable housing out of reach for
many of the families who live and work here.
The wildfires supercharged Maui's housing crisis. For
starters, the destruction of a chunk of Maui's already limited
supply of homes further exacerbated the imbalance between
supply and demand, hiking up rents across the island, even for
families who were not displaced. When FEMA began providing
disaster relief payments to assist survivors, some landlords
reportedly took advantage of the crisis by ousting their
existing tenants so they could lease to fire survivors for a
higher monthly rent. State leaders have worked to crack down on
this abuse, but in many cases the damage had already been done.
As Chairman Sessions has already emphasized, this hearing
is not about finger-pointing or playing a blame game. We are
here on a bipartisan basis to examine the response from all
levels of government to last year's wildfires and to learn so
that we can apply what we have experienced here to improve
future disaster response.
One takeaway that I have gathered already is that the
United States needs to center affordable housing in its
disaster response. I think this was a lesson from Katrina as
well. I think what happened here is showing we are still
struggling to understand how to provide housing in the wake of
disasters.
Lahaina, like any area, has its own challenges and barriers
to overcome in building affordable housing. But there are
common root problems present from Hawaii to my home state of
California. I represent Orange County, California; expensive,
coastal property, with geographic limitations, a lot of
dependency on tourism. There is much in common, and we are
struggling with many of the same root problems.
We need Congress to step up and invest in affordable
housing in advance of disaster so that we are not already in a
shortage when we are trying to climb out. So, I encourage
Congress to think about passing the Affordable Housing Credit
Improvement Act. It currently has 125 Democratic sponsors and
114 Republican cosponsors.
The tax credits in that bill would result in building 2
million new homes. We could help unleash private capital for
home construction by guaranteeing and securitizing the
construction of one to four-unit starter homes, just like the
government already does for big apartment buildings which may
not be suitable, for example, in areas like Lahaina. We could
invest in technology to make 3D printed building materials and
reduce building costs by over 30 percent. We could center
housing construction here to build component parts for houses
to be able to have high-quality housing built more quickly than
is typical. And we could stop Wall Street hedge funds from
scooping up all the affordable homes across our country and
driving up prices for homeowners and renters alike. And we
could reward cities and counties that take the step of making
their building and zoning requirements more flexible.
While we are going to rightly, today, focus on survivors
who lost their homes in the wake of the fire, we are not doing
enough to anticipate the underlying housing crisis that made
the Lahaina wildfires such a profound shock to the housing
market, so we must do more.
Today we are here to listen and to bear witness. So, thank
you for your willingness to share your memories, your
experiences, and your hopes, both painful and joyful, stories
of both heroism and hardship.
I would now like to recognize my colleague----
Mr. Sessions. If I could, please. Excuse me, I am sorry.
Ms. Porter. Yes, of course.
Mr. Sessions. So, without objection, I would like to have
Congresswoman Tokuda and Congressman Ed Case of Hawaii will be
waived on the Committee for the purpose of questioning today's
witnesses at this Subcommittee hearing. Both of these Members
of Congress have worked tirelessly, not only on behalf of the
people of Hawaii from last year's wildfires but also with their
colleagues. They have made sure that we heard more about the
stories, the stories that some respects are thrilling because
it is talked about human endeavor and the people of this island
and their desire to continue to work. So, we waive them both
on.
Without objection, that is done. Now I have to come back to
the gentlewoman.
Ms. Porter. This is a technical procedure so that they can
be part of the committee. So, really good job being in charge.
That is why he is in charge today.
I would now like to recognize my colleague, Representative
Jill Tokuda.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Representative Porter.
And mahalo, Mr. Chairman, for holding this field hearing
today. You and I know that you have absolutely approached this
hearing with the utmost sincerity, and aloha. It could have
been done many other ways, but for the way that you and your
team have approached this truly with the best of intentions and
hopes in your heart for our community and our people, I am very
grateful.
And now, please, I hope you will both consider yourselves
part of our extended ohana, which means you are always welcome
back. But we all now have a shared responsibility in terms of
how we move forward to support our community.
Thank you again, Representative Porter, Representative
Case, for taking time out of what is a very busy August
district work period to come here and to directly listen from
our constituents today.
I am also thankful, as I mentioned, to the Committee staff
and team that are in this room for their collaboration and work
with our team and their hard work for organizing this field
hearing and bringing it to Maui. Oftentimes we summon people to
Washington, DC, as Representative Porter mentioned. It is about
coming to you and meeting you where you are at. So, mahalo to
the teams that made this possible.
You know, as you know, our community just commemorated the
1-year anniversary since the fires. And I have said many times
that this has felt like both the shortest and the longest year
of my life. But I am truly grateful; grateful, honestly, that
during these extremely difficult times that I have been blessed
to be surrounded by the very best of us.
You know, people and organizations from across the state,
from across the country and the world, they stepped forward and
stepped up and truly cared for our community, and they have
gone above and beyond to help us heal, recover, and now focus
on rebuilding.
From shortly after the fires, as you know, we have had
Members of Congress, from Chairman Westerman, to former Speaker
McCarthy and Minority Whip Clark, all come to Maui to express
their strong support for our people. President Biden and
numerous Cabinet members have also been here, committed to
marshalling a whole-of-government response to the disaster. And
since then, the Federal Government has provided over $3 billion
in direct support to Maui and its recovery.
This field hearing is a valuable opportunity for us to
reflect on the past year, and we focus our efforts for what
will continue to be a long and challenging road ahead. One year
later, the greatest challenges we face are the ones that we
cannot see on the surface. Beneath the progress we have made
are the wounds and the scars of a community still hurting and
still grieving. Survivors are struggling to get back on their
feet, to find and keep jobs in a local economy that will take
years to recover, and to secure the finances necessary to
rebuild their homes, their businesses, and their lives.
In a sobering study done by the Hawaii State Rural Health
Association, 45 percent of fire-impacted residents are
seriously considering leaving Maui for other islands or another
state. And across Maui County, a majority of residents know
someone who has already left the island.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert into the
record the Hawaii State Rural Health Association's report
entitled, ``The Struggles of Maui County'', and the Maui
Wildfire Exposure Study's initial report entitled, ``Community
Health, Wellbeing, and Resilience,'' conducted by researchers
at the University of Hawaii.
Mr. Sessions. Without objection, they will be entered into
the record.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
These reports highlight the struggles and the pain points
of recovery and rebuilding. They also identify key needs as
well as opportunities.
Getting this recovery right over the next months, years
and, quite frankly, as I have said, generations, will require
us as a local, state, and Federal Government, and as a
community as a whole, to stay focused on the future.
Central to the next phase of rebuilding Lahaina is the
long-term recovery plan and development by Maui County. And
while physical structures and streets may change, the strength
and soul of Lahaina, we all know, are her people. And as the
people of Lahaina determine what that future will be for this
place, what it will look like, what it will feel like, what we
will lift up, it will take a coherent vision and plan to make
it a reality.
To sustain that recovery, we will also need continued
Federal support. President Biden submitted his initial request
for supplemental disaster funding last October, and updated
that request again this past June. This is where Congress can
and must deliver immediately. Since our fires, disasters, we
know, have continued to strike across our country. We must
replenish FEMA's Disaster Relief Fund and provide Community
Development Block Grant Disaster Recovery, CDBG-DR--we love our
acronyms--funds and more.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert into the
hearing record a recent letter from the Hawaii congressional
delegation outlining our request for additional funding for
housing, education, healthcare, infrastructure and more.
Mr. Sessions. Without objection, that will be included in
the record.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
As we continue our work to meet these urgent needs, we must
never forget that Lahaina is not Lahaina without her people.
They are the foundation of this community, and they must
continue to be the focus of all of our efforts in this
recovery.
Over the past year, we have witnessed not just their grief,
but their courage and, above all, their hope. Through them, the
world has seen what it means to truly be Maui strong.
To the members of the community gathered here today or
watching online, this field hearing represents our commitment
to Maui as Congress and the Federal Government remains
unwavering. We will continue to be here however long it takes.
And I am grateful to my colleagues and the agencies gathered
here today for their support thus far and well into the future.
As many of you know, after the fires I said I would take to
the Floor each time we are in session to make sure that Maui is
never forgotten. Next week, I will speak all 102 names lost and
the names of the two missing on the Floor of Congress. Their
names and their lives forever enshrined in our history. This is
a reminder that you will never, ever be forgotten and we will
not go away.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, fellow colleagues. And I yield back.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
Ms. Porter?
Ms. Porter. Thank you.
I would now like to recognize my colleague, Representative
Ed Case.
Mr. Case. Thank you so much.
Aloha to everybody. And I join my colleagues up here in
saying a very special mahalo to each and all of you for coming
here today and all of you that are watching across our country
with the sole intention of focusing on the needs of Maui and of
Lahaina in particular. We really appreciate your participation
because this is taking all of our effort.
A special thank you to Chair Sessions and Ms. Porter for
coming all this way to devote yourself here. Your comments in
the opening statement indicate that you completely understand
and that you completely get what the needs are and how we feel
we need to approach those needs. So, I really appreciate that.
I also think it is important to say that among many, many
great partnerships that it has taken to focus on Maui
throughout this last year plus, your congressional delegation
has been unified and working together throughout that period.
Jill has obviously lead that from the U.S. House side. But I
would be remiss if I did not also mention Senators Schatz and
Hirono who have been a key part of this effort. And I know that
they are here in spirit today.
And I also want to say mahalo to our Federal Government. We
are focusing today on the Federal Government's response, and we
are doing that because the Federal Government has carried the
heavy load of the recovery. And, of course, many other people
had a part in it. But today, our job is to provide for
congressional responsibility in terms of oversight and to ask
the questions--what have we done well? What could we do better?
And it is not just for the sake of Maui, it is to make sure
that we take the lessons of each one of these disasters and
responses and to other disasters that will occur in the future.
But one thing I do want to say, and my colleagues have
alluded to it and Jill talked about it directly, but, you know,
the Federal Government and the Federal agencies are ultimately
people, and people have motivations. And I will say without a
question that the people that have been in charge of the
Federal Government's response have been competent and caring
and dedicated people who have embraced and cared about Maui.
And, you know, this does not always happen in the Federal
Government, but it certainly has happened here.
And so, as we ask the questions we are going to ask today,
this is in the context of great partners, people that have
cared, people that have tried to find the ways to address
problems in our own way, and they deserve our recognition. So,
each and all of you from the Federal Government who have helped
so much, mahalo so much for that.
Obviously, at the 1-year anniversary, we have done a lot.
The Federal Government's total expenditures are closing in on
$3 billion or in that range in totality, including about a half
a billion dollars in direct assistance to survivors. And
obviously we have much more that must be done. And so, this is
not over by a long shot. And it is clearly imperative that we
continue to provide Federal assistance as long as it takes,
including our No. 1 priority right now which is supplemental
disaster funding, which I have strongly supported through my
work on the House Appropriations Committee which funds our
Federal Government.
And this is a critical issue for us in Congress right now
that we need to focus on, because on August 7, FEMA was
forced--the Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, Mr.
Fenton here who has become synonymous with FEMA, was forced to
implement what is referred to as Immediate Needs Funding
because the Disaster Relief Fund, which is how we have funded
most of this response--we put a bunch of money into it, it is
utilized for disasters where they might occur. And in this
case, that DRF is now exhausted and we are down to the last
limits of it. And that is why FEMA has had to--because we have
had a lot of disasters, not just Maui, across the country, they
had a lot of draws on that and we are way overdue to replenish
the Disaster Relief Fund.
And so, our No. 1 priority really is--the congressional
delegation, I think it is fair to say, and the letter from
Jill--that Jill referred to from the delegation makes this
point. The first and foremost thing we have to do is to
replenish the Disaster Relief Fund as soon as possible. And we
have asked for that in the tune of $20.9 billion. This is
actually urgent right now. This is something that is happening
in Congress right now that we hope to solve within the next 3
weeks, by the end of this fiscal year, September 30. So that is
No. 1.
And then No. 2, we need, as reference was made, to fund the
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Relief Fund. This is
what we need and will access in order to actually rebuild
Lahaina.
And so, these are the big-picture issues that we face as we
analyze the specific response your delegation and our friends
and allies in Congress, including the two up here, are focused
on the larger picture of the necessary Federal assistance that
we will need to finish this job.
And with that, I look forward to hearing from all of our
witnesses about what we have done well, what we need to do
better on for Maui, and what the lessons are to be learned,
both for our own ohana and for our fellow citizens across the
country as they face comparable situations.
Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you
very much.
I am very proud of my colleagues that have taken their time
to not only be a part of this but to make sure that we were
properly prepared.
Today's Subcommittee hearing will focus and feature two
panels of witnesses. The first panel, which is already seated,
will feature Federal witnesses--Federal witnesses from FEMA,
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, U.S. Small Business
Administration's office, and also the EPA. We believe they
represent the heart and the soul of the work that needed to be
done here, and we are calling upon them to give testimony
today.
I would like to introduce the panel, if I could, please. We
have, first, the gentleman, Mr. Bob Fenton, who served as a
Regional Administrator for FEMA Region 9, which includes
Hawaii, since 2015. He brings together not only his knowledge
and experience, but the background, the willingness, and desire
to work with local people on serving answers that are best for
them.
Colonel Eric Swenson serves as Commander of the U.S. Army
Corps of Engineers, St. Paul District, and he has done this
since 2022.
Colonel, we appreciate you taking time to not only be with
us today but to know that you have led the critical work that
was very important for the last year to this island, and thank
you.
Mr. Francisco Sanchez, Jr. He serves as the Associate
Administrator for the U.S. Small Business Administration,
Office of Disaster Recovery & Resiliency. And I would put both
of those words directly to him today as we will, both on the
words ``disaster recovery'' and ``resilience.''
Sir, we want to thank you for not only taking the time to
be here but your hard work and the people of your agency who
have contributed to this important effort.
And last, the gentlewoman, Cheree Peterson, who approached
me earlier with a big smile, and I said to her ``thank you very
much.'' Thank you from the EPA perspective of being the Deputy
Regional Administrator for Region 9, but for the hard work. And
she had several employees that were with her, and she knew that
when I said thank you, it was really on behalf of each of us
that are here today and the American people.
I am delighted that you are all here.
So, pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), the witnesses will
please stand and raise their right hand to be sworn.
And I will ask each of you, do you solemnly swear or affirm
that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
[Response].
Mr. Sessions. Please let the record--thank you very much--
please let the record show that the witnesses all answered in
the affirmative. You may now take your seat. We are delighted
that you are here.
And I would ask that we allow Mr. Fenton to please take his
time. Mr. Fenton, as you know, we typically have a 5-minute
opportunity that is available to the witness. I would like for
you to take the time that is necessary, that does not include
all day, but take the time that is necessary. Because what we
are trying to do today is not to rush through to 5 minutes, but
to listen to you about the things that you have seen, that you
understand, and things that you think these important Members
of Congress--by the way, we represent about 1 percent of the
U.S. Congress that is here today, listening to you and here for
the right reasons.
The gentleman is recognized for 5 minutes.
MR. BOB FENTON
REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR (REGION 9)
FEDERAL EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY
Mr. Fenton. Well, thank you, Chairman Sessions, Ranking
Member Porter, and Representatives Tokuda and Case. My name is
Bob Fenton. I am the FEMA Region 9 Regional Administrator, and
I also served as the Chief Federal Response Coordinator
appointed by President Biden to oversee the Federal response to
these historic wildfires that swept through Kula and Lahaina in
August 2023.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify regarding FEMA's
continued efforts to help Maui recover from the deadliest
wildfires to impact the United States in over a century. During
this tragic event, 102 lives were lost and two remain
unaccounted for. This pain of this kind of loss is deep and
palatable across the island. Thousands of buildings and
cultural heritage sites were also destroyed by the fires,
including approximately 4,000 homes and the face of the sacred
and the historic town that was loved by all.
In my 28 years with FEMA, I have seen numerous disasters
destroy communities across the country. While some have been
bigger in size, none have been as complex as Maui. My
experience working in the Pacific has taught me a lot, mostly
to listen more than I speak and to surround myself with
cultural leaders that I can learn from. It has also underscored
the importance of ensuring that every Federal employee who
deploys here understands the uniqueness of the culture they are
working amidst. Because of this, I requested a cultural adviser
from Maui almost immediately after being tasked with overseeing
this response.
The Department of Interior sent a senior adviser for Native
Hawaiian Affairs to advise us on intergovernmental
relationships and interagency coordination and to consult with
the Native Hawaiian community in recognition of their special
legal and political relationship with the Federal Government.
In coordination with our Federal partners, FEMA established
a Cultural Protocol Task Force that focused on three things:
First, enhancing our staff's understanding of the diverse
culture background; second, raising awareness among affected
communities about FEMA's assistance and procedures; and three,
incorporate cultural practices and considerations into the
planning, implementation, and delivering of FEMA-supported
services, operations, and programs for Maui.
For example, the Cultural Protocol Task Force highlighted
the need for debris removable permission forms to be translated
into 11 languages. We knew that Lahaina was the capital of the
historic Hawaii Kingdom and sites of cultural importance were
hidden beneath the ashes of the fire in Lahaina and potentially
Kula, so we incorporated cultural experts to monitor debris
removal operations. Like our cultural adviser, the cultural
monitor shedded [sic] light on actions we can take and honor
the local community and rich history without compromising the
speed of our response.
In addition to leveraging cultural experts, FEMA has
utilized expertise across our partnering agencies. For example,
the U.S. EPA, who is here today, removed household hazardous
materials. And the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers is in the
process of removing residential and commercial debris. Today,
we spent over $1 billion in those activities to remove that
debris and are on pace to have it completed by February 2025.
As debris removal continues and we are encouraged by homes
being built, we need to collectively work on accelerating the
rebuilding. These hollow structures or fresh foundations are
signs of hope. Housing on Maui is challenging, to say the
least. Due to preexisting housing shortages and infrastructure
limitations, locating temporary housing for displaced survivors
has been a critical component of our effort since August 2023.
Initially, following the fires, over 8,000 survivors were
accommodated in hotels as part of emergency sheltering efforts
that was led by the state, in coordination with FEMA and funded
by us. Following the state's request for direct housing
assistance from FEMA, a joint decision was made by FEMA, the
state, and the county partners to temporarily house survivors
in short-term vacation rentals through FEMA's Direct Lease
program and other programs that the state sponsors.
Short-term vacation rentals were prioritized due to their
abundance and high vacancy rate on Maui following the
wildfires. By January 2024, the Agency secured approximately
1,300 units with leases up to 2 years. FEMA is also temporarily
in the process of procuring alternative transportable temporary
housing units for survivors as they work toward their permanent
housing solution. In collaboration with our partners, we are
working to install these temporary housing units on a group
site in Kilohana and on private properties of eligible
residents who lost their homes during the wildfire.
Temporary housing solutions are not one size fits all, so
we continue to explore innovative ways we can to support Mayor
Bissen's priority of returning Lahaina people to their
community in Lahaina as quickly and safely as possible.
President Biden set the tone for the Federal Government's
role and priority on Maui when he visited after the fire. The
President emphasized that the community would lead Lahaina's
recovery; the Federal Government would listen, learn, and
support, and we will do just that for as long as it takes.
FEMA has provided over $3 billion in funding. We will
continue to support Maui's recovery while being mindful of the
funding required from the Disaster Relief Fund. However, there
are times when the number of intensity of disasters naturally
outpaces our appropriated funds. As a result of our dwindling
Disaster Relief Fund, on August 7, FEMA implemented Immediate
Needs Funding. Under Immediate Needs Funding, we are
prioritizing lifesaving and life-sustaining response--disaster
responses and delaying obligations for longer work.
Although we will continue to accept and process
applications for longer term work, FEMA will be unable to
obligate funding until the Disaster Relief Fund is replenished.
You have our commitment that FEMA will move quickly to resume
obligations paused under the INF as soon as the Disaster Relief
Fund is replenished.
In closing, I want to extend my deepest condolences to
those individuals and families who have lost loved ones in the
fires. I hope collectively we can hold space for their grief
today and in the days and years to come. I am grateful to
Governor Green, Mayor Bissen, the first responders, FEMA's
teams, private nonprofits, and partner agencies for their
adaptability, endurance, and genuine partnership through this
response.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to
answering your questions today.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. And,
Administrator Fenton, thank you so much for being here.
Colonel Swenson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
COLONEL ERIC SWENSON
COMMANDER
ST. PAUL DISTRICT
U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS
Col. Swenson. Aloha. Chairman Sessions and distinguished
Members of Congress, thank you for the opportunity to testify
on the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers response to the devastating
wildfires of August 8, 2023.
The fires razed historical Lahaina Town, as well as 25
homes in the central Maui highlands. There were 102 lives lost,
more than 1,550 properties destroyed, and significant damage to
public infrastructure. Many of the affected residential
properties were single family homes that also contained one or
two additional ohana homes, or family homes, on the lot. These
housed the workforce, guests, and extended families of the
people of west Maui, resulting in a greater impact on the
people of Maui than the numbers might otherwise suggest.
On August 9, 2023, FEMA issued the initial mission
assignment to the Corps of Engineers to activate Emergency
Support Function 3, public works and engineering. This unlocked
our vast emergency response resources. The next day, we
mobilized a temporary emergency power planning and response
team to restore power to the critical infrastructure, including
water wells, pump stations, and emergency centers. To date,
FEMA has issued the Corps 10 mission assignments totaling just
over $1.15 billion.
Soon after we started our temporary power mission, we
started debris removal, an extensive and complex mission, with
an estimated cost exceeding $1 billion. The Corps, under FEMA,
is leading this effort in partnership with the state, county,
EPA, industry partners and, most importantly, our cultural
observers who are experts in their aina, or land, and the
area's diverse heritage.
Initial debris removal began in central Maui highlands on
November 7, 2023, and was complete by January 19, 2024. In
Lahaina, debris removal started on January 17, 2024. This past
week, the Corps cleared fire debris from the last residential
property, which is a massive accomplishment completed months
ahead of schedule.
The Corps has also cleared 60 percent or approximately 60
percent of commercial lots, removed more than 3,100 vehicles,
and removed 141 vessels from in and around Lahaina Harbor.
Another significant effort was constructing a temporary
elementary school to replace the destroyed King Kamehameha III
Elementary School. We finished this temporary 30-classroom
campus, complete with a dining facility, administrative
building, and several support buildings in March 2024. This
facility was built in just 95 days and now serves 320 students,
providing a much-needed sense of normalcy for the community.
To address the acute housing shortage, FEMA tasked the
Corps with preparing sites for temporary housing. On April 11,
2024, the Corps awarded a contract to a Dawson subsidiary,
Aktarius LLC, a Native Hawaiian-owned small business for site
preparation in Lahaina named Kilohana, a Hawaiian word that
means ``lookout.'' Kilohana will accommodate 169 homes and
single families. We anticipate completing site work to include
a sewer main extension to the county's sanitary lift station by
October 28 of this year.
In August 2024, FEMA issued the Corps a mission assignment
to facilitate the installation of temporary housing units on
personal property. A challenging mission but one with the
potential to deliver exactly what residents have asked for, a
housing solution that gets them back on their aina.
The success of our mission is largely due to the close
collaboration between all stakeholders, including Native
Hawaiians and other residents of Maui. This partnership was
crucial in ensuring the safety and well-being of Lahaina and
Kula residents and supporting their ability to rebuild.
Employing local contractors, including Native Hawaiian-owned
businesses, has been vital in fostering community trust and
contributing to the local economy during the recovery.
Acknowledging Lahaina's deep historical and cultural
significance, the Corps worked closely with cultural advisers
and was sensitive to Native Hawaiian traditions, including
pule, or prayer, before missions and significant events. These
practices, led by cultural monitors, honored the land and the
people, fostering trust and respect for the community. This
approach was critical in ensuring that our efforts were not
just about rebuilding infrastructure, but also about doing our
part to heal a community deeply rooted in its heritage.
Building trust with the local community and finding a
suitable location for debris storage were significant
challenges. Without trust, residents would be hesitant to sign
up to our debris removal program--that would have delayed the
removal of hazardous debris and the recovery process. We built
trust by using our public affairs teammates to reach across all
media, by being present at weekly community meetings, and by
reaching out to community elders. Our contractors also hired
local labor and local cultural monitors. When a work crew
comprised of locals arrived at a residential lot, residents
felt a personal connection to the debris crew. In some
instances, family members were clearing family parcels. This
built credibility within the community and encouraged others to
sign up for the debris removal program.
In late 2023, we gained access to a former cinder mine in
west Maui for our use as a temporary disposal site. That real
estate transaction gave us and our contractor the land needed
to construct and operate a site capable of holding all of
Lahaina's fire debris. The West Maui TDS, though controversial
at first, has enabled the Corps to rapidly clear fire debris
from Lahaina.
As the Commander of the Corps mission for Maui from
February to August 2024, it was an honor, it is an honor, to
serve this community and to serve alongside dedicated public
servants at all levels of government.
In 6 months, we, the Army Corps of Engineers, finished the
temporary school, completed all residential debris removal, and
are poised to complete the remainder of our work by the end of
February 2025. More than that, the Corps team worked together
with the people of Maui, with every team member serving as an
ambassador to this community. To date, we have had over 1,300
USACE Ambassadors support this recovery mission.
In conclusion, the Corps is fully committed to the recovery
and rebuilding of Lahaina Town and all affected areas in Maui.
We will continue to work tirelessly to restore hope and
stability to the community.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look
forward to answering your questions you may have. Mahalo.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time.
Colonel Swenson, let me say this to you and other members
of the United States Armed Forces that today serve not only our
great Nation but are also here and present and taking part in
this, thank you. Thank you to the United States Armed Forces
for your service to your families and to the time that you have
devoted to this.
I would also like to add, because I failed to earlier, and
to law enforcement. Men and women of law enforcement, men and
women of Federal, state, and local law enforcement have devoted
themself to the others' lives and would put their own life at
risk. And I want to say that the same about the military. It is
part of what you do, it is part of what you have done proudly.
So, I say thank you to United States Armed Forces as well as
our law enforcement partners. Thank you very much, sir.
We now want to go to Administrator Sanchez. Sir, thank you
so much for taking time to be with us. The gentleman is
recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MR. FRANCISCO SANCHEZ, JR.
ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR
OFFICE OF DISASTER RECOVERY & RESILIENCE
SMALL BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION
Mr. Sanchez. Aloha, Chairman Sessions and distinguished
Committee Members. Thank you for the invitation to discuss the
Small Business Administration's response to the Maui wildfires.
And my deepest gratitude to Representative Tokuda and the
Hawaii delegation entirely for the warm hospitality and
gracious welcome, not just to beautiful homeland but for the
past year, not just today, for welcoming our teams to work
together to lift Maui and its people up.
I am Francisco Sanchez, the Associate Administrator for the
Office of Disaster Recovery & Resilience. And on behalf SBA
Administrator Isabel Casillas Guzman and the entire agency,
please know that we deeply appreciate your support of our
disaster mission.
Prior to joining SBA, I was the Deputy Homeland Security
and Emergency Management Coordinator for Harris County, Texas,
the third largest county in the Nation, which includes the city
of Houston. And I have had the responsibility, coming from the
Gulf Coast, to be on command staff for four of our Nation's 10
most costly natural disasters, as well as to provide oversight
for security operations of many high-level events, including
two Super Bowls, three World Series, and multiple national
security events.
Over the course of that time, I also served as a
firefighter for nearly 10 years. And I know firsthand the
devastation and destruction that fire can cause. And what I saw
in the immediate hours after the fire was put out in Lahaina
was certainly one of the most tragic scenes that I have
witnessed.
As I walked along Front Street, some of the ground and some
of those parts of the street were still smoldering. Lives,
homes, and livelihoods were entirely erased. And the task at
hand was and remains to be monumental.
Today, Chairman, we come full circle. Just more than a year
ago at a hearing much like this one in Florida for Hurricane
Ian, we discussed SBA's commitment to fulfill its solemn
obligation to help disaster survivors.
Today, the greatest transformation of SBA's disaster
enterprise in the agency's nearly 71-year history is largely
complete. We are better prepared today than we have ever been
to help communities recover from disasters.
The hearing was on August 10, the same day President Biden
signed the major disaster declaration for my Maui. And I would
be on the flight the following morning to join Administrator
Guzman and FEMA Administrator Criswell here on the island the
next day.
SBA has provided more than $405 million in loan offers,
more than $90 million has been disbursed already to disaster
survivors. And under Administrator Guzman's leadership, SBA's
sweeping reforms have been integral to our Maui response.
In July 2023, just days before the fires, SBA updated
disaster loan limits for the first time since I was graduating
high school, nearly 30 years. These increases have helped
ensure that disaster survivors here and elsewhere have the
sufficient funding they need to recover and to rebuild. Limits
for a homeowner's primary residence were raised from $200,000
to $500,000. More than 26 percent of the initial loan approvals
in Maui were above the previous administrative limit of
$200,000. Because of these changes, there is an additional
$101.9 million approved, on the ground, accessible to disaster
survivors that otherwise would not have access to those funds
to rebuild.
SBA also increased loan limits for personal property, such
as clothing, furniture, automobiles, and appliances, from
$40,000 to $100,000. SBA also increased initial payment
deferral from 5 months to 12 months. This means a borrower does
not need to make a payment and no interest accrues until 1 year
after disbursement. This allows disaster survivors to focus on
what matters most, their own personal and financial recovery.
We also proved that we can be swift, we can be agile. And
with the authorities Congress has provided us we can pivot to
deliver on the most critical local priorities. Specifically in
Maui, SBA increased the disbursement period from 6 months to 24
months. This means that businesses and homeowners have more
time to rebuild, that their loan will not lapse, even if they
cannot start rebuilding today. What once was a lend-and-leave
program is now a whole-of-SBA effort where we bring every
resource to bear that we can to help communities rebuild.
Government contracting is just one of those. SBA's Office
of the Government Contracting and Business Development
identified 179 Hawaii-based small businesses owned by veterans,
women, and Native Hawaiians. As of now, more than $688 million
in Federal contracts have been awarded to small businesses,
including $425 million in prime contracts to Hawaii-owned
firms. That translates to 57.5 percent going to small business
and 37.8 percent going to Hawaii-based firms. And I will
commend Army Corps of Engineers that have been a critical
partner in helping us reach those targets. And if we can do
this on an island in the middle of the Pacific, we can
translate this to other places in the continental United
States.
We have done more than that in the past year, but we have
more work to do. This week I will be hearing directly from the
residents and people of Maui to see what the work in the coming
years looks like, because communities recover stronger when we
strengthen how we work together.
So, mahalo for your support of SBA. And I look forward to
answering your questions.
Mr. Sessions. Administrator, thank you very much. The
gentleman yields back his time, and thank you very much.
I think we all see why sometimes 5 minutes does not fit
perfectly, and you took good advantage to make sure that we
received information we needed to know.
Administrator Peterson, welcome. We are delighted that you
are here. The gentlewoman is recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MS. CHEREE PETERSON
DEPUTY REGIONAL ADMINISTRATOR (REGION 9)
ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
Ms. Peterson. Aloha, Chairman Sessions and Members of the
Subcommittee. On behalf of the U.S. Environmental Protection
Agency, thank you so much for inviting me here today.
EPA's mission is to protect human health and the
environment. We strive to provide clean water, clean air, and
clean land to all communities. Under this mission, ensuring
that that includes recovery and response to disasters, such as
the terrible one that occurred in Maui in 2023. This remains a
top priority for EPA and myself.
On August 10, President Biden signed a major disaster
declaration. Within 24 hours, EPA personnel were on the ground
responding. Since this tragedy struck, I personally have been
in Lahaina four times and have continued to bring staff here.
Over 300 people have come from all across EPA.
I have seen firsthand the devastation in Lahaina, heard
firsthand the stories of the communities and residents here, as
well as the community leaders. It has affected me profoundly,
as has it for every EPA personnel member who has come here.
These personal experiences will remain with us and continue to
motivate us here.
As part of the emergency response, FEMA has assigned the
EPA three missions: hazardous material removal, water
infrastructure technical assistance, and sustainability advice
during the recovery process. Today, I am here to provide
updates on what we have accomplished, as well as what we are
continuing to work on today.
On August 17, 2023, only 7 days after the disaster
declaration, EPA began removing hazardous material from the
city of Lahaina. During this period, we removed 200 tons, by
hand, of hazardous material from 1,374 properties, residential
properties, and 74 commercial properties. We did so and
completed this mission by December 22, which I want to
highlight was done 30 days ahead of deadline and $20 million
under budget. During this time, we also set up five air
monitoring stations so that the County of Maui would be able to
understand any air quality issues affecting their communities.
We placed these air monitors in the most vulnerable sections of
the community, to include our schools.
Our next mission was to deploy our water emergencies
technical assistance team. They provide guidance and technical
assistance to the County of Maui for our storm water, drinking
water and wastewater. Over the last 7 months, EPA has tested
over 1,300 drinking water lateral lines that connect to main
sewer lines. Of these, we identified 600 that contained
contaminated water and contaminated substance, and we alerted
Maui County so that they could be capped and protected from the
rest of the water system. We also cleared and inspected over
98,000 linear feet of the sewer system so that it would be
operable as soon as people would be able to rebuild.
Through these efforts, the EPA has enabled water advisories
to be lifted sooner, for water treatment plants to become
online, and to protect segments of the water infrastructure to
prevent ash and debris from flowing into saltwater and fresh
groundwater.
On July 17, on time and on budget, EPA completed our
drinking water and wastewater emergency response.
Currently, we are working to design, for the Wahikuli
Terrace neighborhood, a connection to the sewer system. This
will eliminate the need for cesspools that degrade the
environment.
The last mission EPA received was for sustainability. This
is a long-term advisor to assist rebuilding communities and
restoring watersheds with the aim of helping the communities be
more resilient in the face of this kind of disaster. The
sustainability advisor continues to collaborate with local and
state departments, as well as our Federal family at the table
here, to understand local priorities and identify potential
funding sources for long-term recovery.
The most important aspect of what EPA did here was to
approach this mission so that it was deeply rooted in respect
for Hawaii's unique cultural heritage. Through consultation
with Maui's community and cultural leaders, we cooperatively
developed a cultural strategy that set a new standard for EPA
for Federal response. This included establishing cultural
sensitivity training, as you heard, that continues today with
the Federal family. We placed cultural monitors at each of our
hazmat teams, and we also imbedded--over 50 percent of our on-
island staff were locals, and we are very proud of this. We
also set new code of conduct for all of our contractors and our
personnel. My partner agencies continue this work so that we
protect as much as possible the rich cultural heritage of
Lahaina.
Throughout the response, EPA was dedicated to communicating
with the communities as clearly and frequently as possible. We
appeared every week in the public meetings, and we appeared at
multiple venues, to include the formal disaster assistance
session that were continually opened here in the Lahaina
Center, as well as the more informal one, such as the one that
took place in the Pele Park. We strive to keep the residents
and the community informed on everything we do.
We worked very closely with our local, state, and Federal
partners. I am so grateful to be at this table with this
wonderful and cooperative team that allowed us to get in and do
our mission.
EPA remains committed to long-term recovery. I have walked
the streets of Lahaina and Kula and have spoken with community
leaders and residents. Their stories of loss, resilience, and
hope motivates both myself and the entire EPA to continue
supporting Maui's recovery. The incredible strength and spirit
of the Maui community inspires us, and their needs guide our
work.
Mahalo nui loa. I look forward to your questions.
Mr. Sessions. Administrator, thank you very much. Following
your words of, perhaps, the way you have operated, we will
offer some bit of feedback now too. And I would move to the
distinguished gentlewoman, Congresswoman Tokuda, on our attempt
to try and be more forthright too.
The gentlewoman is recognized.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
You know, while this hearing may be slightly different from
others that have attended hearings here in the state
legislature and the city council, and there is no formal period
for public comment, we want to be able to share what you have
to say and make sure that you are heard.
And so, for those who would like to, there are comment
cards that are available that will be handed around by staff
that you can please fill out. Put your thoughts down, your
contact information, and it will be put as part of the official
record of this Committee.
So, Mr. Chair, Committee Members, I do appreciate this
opportunity to allow our people to be able to participate and
give comment today.
Mr. Sessions. We are delighted. We had decided we are going
to do that at the end. We decided we are going to do it in the
middle.
Administrator Peterson, thank you for your feedback.
We now would move to the distinguished gentlewoman from
California, my colleague, Ms. Porter.
Ms. Porter. Thank you very much.
I want to start with you, Mr. Sanchez, and talk about the
SBA's role here. About how many applications have you received
from those affected by this disaster?
Mr. Sanchez. Completed applications is roughly 6,000.
Ms. Porter. Six thousand. Were there more that were started
but not finished?
Mr. Sanchez. Yes. There were about 6,400 that were started.
Ms. Porter. And what have you done to--sorry. What have you
done to locate those people who started an application but
maybe did not finish it, to try to understand why?
Mr. Sanchez. Sure. We have gone through our teams on the
ground as we have researched the data base, who started an
application, maybe did not finish it. We have done multiple
attempts. For example, we reached out just earlier this year to
about 309 of those; 308 of those we were able to identify. At
the end of the day, we were able to make positive contact with
about 240 of those, and we tried multiple times over 2 weeks,
and we identified ``why haven't you completed it?'' Sometimes
the answer was no interest at this time. Sometimes they needed
additional paperwork or guidance, and then our teams were able
to follow up with them directly to help get them over the
finish line.
Ms. Porter. I think that is really helpful because I think,
in the wake of an event like this, there is sort of lots of
different people coming to help, and people are not sure where
they belong. And so, I think that follow up and that tracking
is really one of the most important things government can do.
I think often we focus on what gets disbursed, what gets
done. And I think one of the important things we asked
ourselves--we actually have to study who does not apply, who
does not know about the program, who does not complete it to
kind of understand whether we are being effective.
I also wanted to ask you about, sort of, the role of the
SBA writ large, because I think this is one of the agencies
that maybe has a little bit of a public relations problem in
that you also assist individuals. Can you talk about that?
Because I think what is a business under the SBA is complex and
I think often makes it challenging for people to know whether
they can and should be asking you for assistance.
Mr. Sanchez. Sure. Many people do not know that SBA helps
homeowners, renters, and businesses, and private nonprofits
help to recover after disaster, and we are here to help with
your uninsured losses or underinsured losses.
And for perspective, local and state governments typically
do more business with SBA than almost any other Federal agency.
Certainly, FEMA comes in for the Presidentially declared
disasters. For perspective, we were on the ground for 472
disasters last year. Since 2000, there have only been 3 years
where there have been more Presidential disasters than SBA-
declared disasters.
And so, while we are on the ground more often, we do need
the help of local communities and nonprofits and local leaders
to explain to people that you can come to SBA and the value of
a long-term--low-interest, long-term loan.
Ms. Porter. So, I wanted to go back to those 6,000
applications that were received. How many has SBA accepted so
far?
Mr. Sanchez. Of those--we received about 6,028 applications
fully completed. We have approved 2,278 of those loans. The
vast majority of those, about 1,434 are for homes, 356 for
businesses, and 488 for economic injury disaster loans. That
is, businesses that were not physically impacted but are seeing
a downturn in revenue, and some of those businesses may have
been both physically and economically injured.
Ms. Porter. So, what about the other 3,740 and change? Are
you still reviewing them? What is their status? What is the
timeline? Have they been denied? What can you tell us about
that?
Mr. Sanchez. Sure. One of the concerns is this is a
protracted recovery. We will be here for a while, and so some
of the--we continue to reach out. There are folks that I
continue to reach out personally--I have been--this is my third
time on the island--to help get through the process and see
where they are. We will be here for the long haul.
People are recovering at their own pace. We are learning
the different culture of the island, the pace at which people
come. We have--and so that is--that we are leading from the
ground up is critical to us.
In terms of how long we will be here, it has been--we have
done a 2-year--people can draw down 2 years from being sent the
loan. We recently signed a lease for 2 years with extension to
extend. We know this is going to be a long recovery, so we are
going to--we have 10 staff on the ground; 5 of those are local
hires.
And so, we are committed to be here a long--however long it
takes for us to get people across the finish line.
Ms. Porter. Yes. I think this is a really important point
that--the work that you have done in terms of increasing the
disbursement period. I think sometimes we focus on, you know,
every dollar has to go out right away, and I think what that
misses is that sometimes not everyone wants their dollars right
away because once you take the money, then the time starts
ticking for the repayment and the rebuilding.
And we are now, as we have heard from the EPA and from the
engineers and from FEMA, we are now in a place 1 year later
where water has been restored, power has been restored, debris
has been removed, and we can start actually that rebuilding
process.
So, I just want to emphasize to the public, I think
sometimes there is a sense of every dollar has not gone out and
it has been a year. I think your point about centering when
people are ready for that help and being here in the long term
is really important.
So, I just--I want to suggest to you that that lengthened
disbursal process and that lengthened repayment period is
something that I think, particularly for fire, we might need to
adopt more agencywide. I do think there are unique things about
Lahaina, but I think fire generally, a little bit different
than flood, for example.
But even flood, I think we are just experiencing bigger
disasters, and that means it takes a longer time to do the
cleanup and repair. We are doing it in a more both culturally
sensitive way but environmentally safe way, and what that means
is we cannot always disburse the money as quickly. And so, I
would encourage you to think about that.
I actually have more questions, but I am going to--my time
has expired, and I hope we have a chance to come back around,
Mr. Chair, if we can.
Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman yields
back her time.
The answer to that is, yes, we will do that. You had
previously directed that comment to me, and I wanted to be as
realistic as I could. We do not have 40 members here. We have
Members who are here----
Ms. Porter. You should be thankful we do not have 40
Members.
Mr. Sessions. Well, I agree with that also.
We now move to the distinguished gentlewoman, Ms. Tokuda,
for her 5 minutes.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
And, you know, I just want to follow up on Representative
Porter's comments. But first, Mr. Sanchez, I remember, in just
the days after the fire, Administrator Guzman coming to the War
Memorial with us to see a congregate shelter, helping us to
actually translate in Spanish because we did not have a
translator right there at the time, and allowing my team to
then help this person, you know, get their papers that had
burned in the fire.
And so, just really appreciative that it was boots on the
ground for anything that was required of us. So, please relay
my thanks to the Administrator.
But I did want to follow up, and you and I kind of started
the conversation earlier today. You know, as we know, small
businesses, I almost call them micro businesses, mom and pop
shops here, they are the core of Hawaii's economy and
definitely the case in Lahaina, and that is particularly true
of this area.
And so many of our small businesses, quite frankly, as we
discussed, were still recovering from the pandemic. They were
still trying to pay off their existing EIDL loans from the SBA.
The fires hit, and all of a sudden, while you have got
deferment, the thought of taking on another obligation is quite
daunting for many, from a credit perspective, from a
responsibility perspective. And as a result, they had
significant challenges many times securing further assistance
from the SBA, as Representative Porter alluded to.
Mr. Sanchez, in the most recent numbers that we have been
looking at, more than half of our home and business
applications were denied or withdrawn. Withdrawn oftentimes
meaning they could not get documentation or answers required to
actually complete it. And in the case of EIDL loans, about two-
thirds of all applications were denied or withdrawn, and it is
a timing thing.
But as we discussed earlier, how are we going to work to
get those thousands of applications that came through, how do
we get them to yes? Because many of these individuals need
those resources to either rebuild, to be able to stay here in
the place that they love. And so how are we getting to yes?
Mr. Sanchez. Yes. So, we are very deeply committed to try
to get people across the finish line and to yes. It is
something that we learned in Florida. We learned it in
Kentucky. We learned it in Selma, Alabama. And so, we launched
our reconsideration campaign. That means if you get a no from
SBA, we are going to go back and figure out why the answer was
no.
One of the things that we have done through our
reconsideration campaign, typically our credit score is a
certain number, minimum credit score. If you are within five
points of that, there is a decent chance we can get you back to
yes by working with you through SBA district offices and our
resource partners. We expanded that here to 10, within 10
points.
And so let me tell you what that actually means. It means,
because we go back and help get people to yes and devote the
time, energy, and the resources that is required for that, in
Selma, a decline went from no to $400,000 in capital because we
went back and tried to get folks to yes.
I worked personally with one survivor here who was having
challenges with the paperwork and other issues, was frustrated.
We got that disaster survivor from wanting to walk away to
$574,000 in approved capital for them to start rebuilding their
home and their business.
And so that is the kind of approach that we are taking. And
so, we are bringing in our resource partners, like Operation
Hope, our small business development centers, and really that
team effort and that going from just the lend-and-leave program
that we used to be and that whole-of-SBA approach to bringing
every resource we can to bear to help people through that
application process. And not only that, try to get them other
resources that they need.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you.
And as we discussed earlier, hopefully consideration can be
made. Many of the things that disqualified people or forced
them to withdraw, whether documentation, credit scores,
financing, it was because of the fires. And so, they need extra
help to get them to that yes point where they will be eligible.
So, I'm sure we will have more discussion on that.
But, Mr. Fenton, would love to chat with you. First of all,
Chair, I will have you know, a few days when I first met him, I
asked him, ``Where did you have breakfast this morning?'' And
he said, Tasty Crust. I knew we are in good hands because he
was eating with the locals from day one.
So, thank you, Mr. Fenton, for being here nonstop for the
past year. And, you know, you kind of talked a little bit
about, in your verbal and your written testimony, about the
biggest challenge over the past year being housing, the
thousands of displaced individuals and households living in an
already tight market. The majority were renters, many living on
top of each other in many particular situations, and how it was
a joint decision between FEMA, the Governor, and the Mayor to
kind of target the short-term vacation rentals so that we can
quickly put survivors into these homes.
And in testimony, Mayor Bissen talks about how, you know,
the unintended consequences were the negative impacts on the
housing market island-wide and for many residents that have
been displaced. And there have been multiple counts of
predatory behavior. Some landlords have scrambled to secure the
higher, you know, rents paid by FEMA's Direct Lease program and
the state's equivalent program and displace current residents
right now.
And so, Mr. Fenton, given what you know now, would this
still have been the best approach for transitioning survivors
out of non-congregate shelters into this Direct Lease program?
Mr. Fenton. Yes, I think at the speed that we had to do it,
this was the only resource that had those many units available.
We have had less--since we have primarily focused on the
vacation rental market, we tried to limit the impact to
individuals here that were significantly impacted by this
event. Over 4,000 units lost in this significant event. So, we
tried to limit that.
We have less than 10 that have been brought to us as
potential issues where people have been displaced. We have
turned those all over to the state's attorney general to take
action against that.
But I do not know if there would have been any quicker
solution just because of the limitation of infrastructure,
water, and other issues to develop sites. It has taken us right
now, I think the site that we are doing, somewhere around 9
months to do that. We assessed over 20 different properties and
really had limited solutions to do that. Most of the people
want to stay on the west side, and so there is just not a lot
of good solutions.
I think the vacation rental, use of vacation rentals was
the best solution and the most timely solution. I think in
retrospect, we should go back and look at that and figure out
how to really utilize that in combination with local
authorities or regulations, and how can we more manage that
better in the future if we had to do something similar.
We may also want to look at maybe a quicker housing
solution. You know, right now, our housing solution is really
what we use in the mainland that we are exporting out here,
which takes a long time. So, can we use something that is more
austere that uses maybe solar or other things that do not
require as much infrastructure as we do right now?
So, there are things that we can do to look at how we are
setting up our infrastructure here and not have as a robust,
you know, a system that we have on the mainland and something
that works better maybe with some of the conditions as we go
into the Pacific, especially the far Western Pacific.
Ms. Tokuda. Absolutely. Thank you.
And I know I have more questions, but thank you. I
definitely think a hot wash after all of this is done to take a
look at how we can come up with better alternative approaches,
whether in Hawaii or anywhere in the continental United States,
would be a good one.
And also, understanding the human capacity, you know, in
terms of regulation that exists here and ability to be able to
manage what ultimately became predatory behavior, whether
reported or not. What we do know is there has been
displacement. That is unacceptable across the board.
And so, thank you for that, and we look forward to more
discussion throughout the hearing.
But, Mr. Chair, I will yield back.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
I now move to the distinguished gentleman, my dear friend,
Congressman Case. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Fenton, we have all made reference, not all of us but
certainly two of us have made reference to Immediate Needs
Funding restrictions now placed by FEMA on funding of disasters
due to the shortfall in the Disaster Relief Fund. And you
testified that that meant you would not be able to,
essentially, obligate long-term funding recovery efforts and
needed to move to immediate disaster-related stuff. And we
obviously have a lot of disasters around the country.
So, what is the practical impact if they do not solve the
DRF soon? What is going to be the practical impact to the Maui
recovery from the restriction of Immediate Needs Funding?
Mr. Fenton. It delays long-term recovery. It delays
building, rebuilding of infrastructure. We are unable to
obligate the funding that is needed to rebuild permanent
infrastructure. And so, while we currently right now have
sufficient funds to continue to help individuals with housing
or other immediate needs, that too is starting to be
threatened.
So, the impact is really to--you know, and we are at a very
good stage right now with debris being removed, water coming
on, and power coming on to actually start rebuilding the
infrastructure, and that will delay that process and elongate
the recovery and impact Maui further.
Mr. Case. OK. Thank you.
And then switching to the subject of housing, because I
think we would agree that this has been probably the most
problematic part of the recovery is taking kind of FEMA's more,
you know, continent-based approach to transitional housing and
long-term recovery housing and trying to transpose that into a
much different housing environment. Ms. Porter made reference
to this.
And we have had many discussions along these lines, and you
with the congressional delegation, and this is an area that we
have on occasion disagreed on what the right path is. I think
we are on a good path now, but I just want to make sure of some
basic facts.
If I understand correctly, and this comes from my staff's
conversation with you a few weeks ago, somewhere in the range
of 4,300 households were eligible for transitional housing. The
information that I think I got back from you through them was
that somewhere in the range of 1,300 had actually requested
assistance, and that 1,300 is distributed in various ways.
The Direct Lease program, you know, some of them found
permanent solutions. The Kilohana group site was referenced,
and some of your smaller transitional housing that you are
actually constructing.
I guess, first of all, are the facts correct? And second,
if those are correct, what did happen to the other 2,000-some-
odd? It seems a large number to me looking at it today.
Mr. Fenton. Yes. So, over 4,000 qualified what we call
direct housing. That means they are a renter or owner and their
home was destroyed by the fire. And then what happens is we
conduct a preplacement interview with each one of those 4,000
households. So, these are households, not individuals,
households. We conduct interviews with each one of them to
understand what their needs are.
A large number were able to secure housing. Some were
insured and have LAE or LOU and used that insurance. Some were
able to find other housing. And so those discussions and
sometimes as many as 10 discussions with an individual
household led us to 1,300 need some type of direct housing,
meaning that we have no housing, we need help from the Federal
Government to house us.
The average in my region, Pacific or mainland, is usually
less than 10 percent. So right now, we are at about 32 percent,
which is a higher than normal number but I think well within
the norm of what we see on other disasters.
Mr. Case. OK. So, do you have any expectation--is that
number then pretty firm? Is that the universe we're dealing
with? I guess the question I am asking is, is it possible that
some of the people who did not go into the transitional housing
program would, in fact, still go into it in some way, shape, or
form if the option was there? Or are they pretty much out of--
off your radar at this point from this perspective at least?
Mr. Fenton. There has been very few that have come back up
that had a situation that has changed it. I would want to say
in the single digits over the last couple of months. There are
some right now whose LAE or LOU has been exhausted, and then
what they are going into is our continued housing assistance
where we provide them 175 percent of rental cost and help them
continue to rent units there.
Mr. Case. OK. Great.
I also have a few more questions, but I will defer, Mr.
Chair.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you
very much, Ed.
I will now yield myself 5 minutes for the purpose of
questioning.
Administrator Sanchez, I am going to aim the first question
at you, and then I have a second question that I would
encourage any of you to respond to.
You and I both know that these are four agencies that are
represented here. That does not represent the entire U.S.
Government. There are certainly issues related to the IRS and
other reporting, perhaps those who have student loans and other
things that would need that output.
Do you believe that they have been adequately addressed as
you look across this entire process, that you had help from
other agencies and answered those questions?
Mr. Sanchez. Yes, sir. I think one of the things that we
have learned from disaster to disaster is that if you are one
of the most impacted disaster survivors, you probably will not
file in the first 30, 60, 90 days. You come in later and you
are missing paperwork. You need questions.
One of the things that we have built a strong partnership,
for example, with the Internal Revenue Service if we cannot
find--if that disaster survivor cannot find tax records, we
will go out and do that for them on behalf of the IRS. Just,
you know, for example, we know that 59 of those IRS did not
have records because we went and looked.
In addition, beyond that, we are also working with our
resource partners beyond the Federal Government because it has
to be a state, local, and Federal and nonprofit response. We
are working with nonprofits to get that paperwork and other
issues they need to get businesses across the finish line.
Mr. Sessions. Did you run across anyone that was seeking
assistance for a business or something where there were no IRS
records that were available from the IRS?
Mr. Sanchez. Fifty-nine of those, yes, sir.
Mr. Sessions. Fifty-nine.
Did you extend to them the advantages of the Federal
Government, even though they had, perhaps, not taken the time
to file paperwork about what they had been doing previously?
How did you handle that?
Mr. Sanchez. We connect them to other resources because we
are a lending program, not a grant program.
Mr. Sessions. Right.
Mr. Sanchez. There are certain requirements----
Mr. Sessions. Well, that might be the IRS. So, we will be
asking the IRS about how they handled that. I think it is
important for the Members of Congress to know that if someone
chose not to legitimately register their business, to pay their
taxes, and do those things, I, as one Member, would want to
question what would that response be so that I would be aware.
Thank you very much.
The overwhelming thing that we--has struck me today is that
the flexibility that you were given, each of you--and I applaud
that and I think that is important--but it is, I think,
important for people to understand what the rules of the game
are, how long they have, how flexible you have become in that
process.
Do you believe that you have adequately made sure that,
perhaps our young Mayor, perhaps other people, perhaps
organize--yes, Mayor, I did call you young. He smiled at his
wife. He smiled at his wife, and she assured him back, yes,
honey, you are a young mayor.
But have these become known across, what I would say, the
needs of the island to where it may not get to everybody but to
where everybody goes, yes, we knew the rules? As opposed to,
you know, I did not really ever understand what we were trying
to get at.
Do you think that you have adequately brought these rules,
regulations, timeframes, responses, answers to a broad group of
people?
Administrator Fenton, I will let you go first.
Mr. Fenton. Thank you, sir.
I think it is a continuing process. What I have found on
Pacific islands, and I have had a number of discussions with
young Mayor a number of times during this event, but it is a
continuing education. It is not a straight line. It is a Venn
diagram, and it can take continuous effort, and it's just not,
you know, myself communicating it. It is others communicating
it. It is the community communicating it.
I think the Mayor's advisory program is critical to bring
senior leaders from the community in. You know, how do we
educate them, so they carry the message? Maybe using faith-
based leaders, maybe using other individuals. It is a
continuing effort.
Mr. Sessions. Do you think you say the same thing every
time of what the rules are to every single group?
Mr. Fenton. Yes. I think that sometimes, you know, when you
have an organization as big as ours, not everyone is on the
same message sometimes, and we have to continue to improve
that. I think that sometimes, you know, Federal Government
programs can be over bureaucratic and the more that we----
Mr. Sessions. Yes, sir, but we are talking about the rules.
We are talking about the flexibility that Administrator Sanchez
so adequately explained as the flexibility. Here are the rules.
And that is where I think it is important to recognize how you
had some people who may not have qualified, and we need to make
sure those rules are there.
So, you would say it is an ongoing process, something that
you need to remember is very important, and sharing that
information.
Administrator Sanchez?
Thank you, Mr. Fenton.
Mr. Sanchez. So, certainly, a great question, Chairman,
because our parameters for just doing disaster lending are
pretty--those are set.
Mr. Sessions. Have they changed?
Mr. Sanchez. The rules not to qualify change. The rules in
which you can access the loans.
Mr. Sessions. I do agree.
Mr. Sanchez. And so, one of the things, it is kind of a
victim of sort of our innovation. We want to lead from the
ground up and meet local priority. So, some of the parameters
did change to be responsive to the local needs. Like we are
doing this----
Mr. Sessions. And have they been well communicated?
Mr. Sanchez. We are doing that daily, but, again, on this
visit, we have heard the need for more flexibility. And so, it
is a challenge to be innovative but also go back, and we have
tried to with 10,000 emails to homeowners, 4,000 emails to
businesses, 6,400 actual physical contacts with disaster
survivors to let them know what those changes are.
I think we can be nimble, but I think we can also do a
better job of making sure that the person that got a loan on
day 10 understands the flexibilities that are now there 3
months later when someone may have gotten their loan as well.
So, it is a work in progress.
Mr. Sessions. I think the same things also, and we will
completely defer to you, but to say to people ``we are now
halfway through this period, if you fit or believe you are
going to be doing this''--things like that, reminding people.
If I were involved in something that was highly difficult
in my life, I would want a little bit of a reminder. Not today,
``you have got till tomorrow,'' but, rather, today, ``you have
got 6 months'' as a reminder.
Thank you very much. I think these are the two questions
that I have.
I now would like to advise the panel that we are going to
go through a second round in the same order.
The distinguished gentlewoman from California is
recognized.
Ms. Porter. Thank you.
Mr. Fenton, I wanted to talk with you a little bit about
some of your housing recommendations, following up a little bit
on what my colleague, Representative Case, said.
It is notable to me as I prepared for this hearing and
heard over and over again that housing remains the biggest
unsolved challenge--we have made great progress in many other
areas--that HUD, Housing and Urban Development, is not here
today. And I think this reflects nothing about the preparation
but something more structural in our Federal Government about
the role of HUD and how that agency works. HUD, again, Housing
and Urban Development.
Can you talk about how we might better integrate HUD into
disaster relief? What are the barriers structurally, funding-
wise? How can we do better going forward on that piece?
Mr. Fenton. Yes. So, HUD has been here as part of our team,
the interagency team that has been here since the beginning,
but there is a number of limitations, both on my side and HUD's
side.
My side is primarily focused at temporary housing to be an
interim solution that is usually set at 18 months. Now, I can
extend that, and in this event, I will extend that temporary
housing.
But when we start talking about permanent housing, there
are some things I could do. On public--on the infrastructure,
if HUD does not have the funding, I can step in and fund it,
and I have done that here for some of the publicly damaged
ones.
But probably the biggest tool that we have is HUD's CDBG-R
program, and it is not an annual appropriation but usually done
through supplementals. And so, what is happening is you have
this interim authority that comes in through FEMA to
temporarily meet the immediate needs, the mass care needs, put
people in non-congregate sheltering, temporarily house people
without that authority working simultaneously to work on the
long-term solutions.
And so, what is happening is--and that one takes the
longest to actually implement. So, if you do not work it as we
are working the other ones, you get to a point where I have now
got to my 18 months and there is nothing there, right, because
this one takes the longest to develop permanent infrastructure.
We are actually doing a pretty good job of phasing
everything in here by having the debris removed within a year
for residential. The water system is back operational because
of EPA's work and the Corps' work and all the sewer systems.
So, we are ready for the infrastructure. We are ready for the
community to build.
What is lacking is that Federal funding to help the
rebuilding. SBA is there within the loan part, but HUD needs to
be there, and it is really because it is a supplemental funding
through the CDBG-R that that does not exist, and it is a tool
that the Mayor does not have to use.
Ms. Porter. Yes. And I think that really illustrates that
there is a focus on kind of the day one, the money for the day
one, but we have to start planning and funding for the long
term on day one. And so instead, there is a focus on getting it
out quickly and not on sort of the longer term. And by the time
we go to do that, then it creates that gap, right, that gap
where people fall into between what you can do and the HUD
piece.
I also wanted to ask you, in your testimony, you mentioned
the Permanent Housing Construction program. Is that correct?
Mr. Fenton. I do not remember----
Ms. Porter. But is it true that you cannot do that outside
the continental United States?
Mr. Fenton. No, I could do it outside the continental
United States. So, it is based on--initially, maybe about 10,
20 years ago, it was only for ancillary areas, but that has
changed now, and it is--we are able to do it anywhere where
there is a need and it is cost-effective.
There are certain conditions that need to be met as far as
there has to be no alternate housing resources available. There
has to be also other forms of--no forms of other temporary
housing, they are unavailable or infeasible or not cost-
effective. So, this makes it very difficult.
Ms. Porter. So, can I ask you? I mean, from a taxpayer
perspective, realizing that, reportedly--and please correct me
if this is wrong--in some instances, the government was paying
upwards of $1,000 per night for short-term housing, which is I
think pretty eye popping for taxpayers around the country.
Why not deploy the Permanent Housing Construction program?
In other words, given the housing shortage we have already in
so many communities, when there is a disaster, does it make
sense to have FEMA focus so much on a temporary instead of on a
better balance between temporary and permanent?
Mr. Fenton. Well, there still needs to be a temporary
solution because what do you do with individuals the length of
time it takes you to rebuild? And we know in fires, it is
probably going to take you a year before the infrastructure and
the housing is ready to rebuild because of the debris removal
and restoration of infrastructure, even longer than hurricanes,
floods, or other events.
And so, what do you do to house people? So, you need to
have that temporary solution but also need to be able to work
the permanent solution.
Ms. Porter. Yes. I guess I wonder about more austere
temporary with a bigger commitment to permanent right at the
get-go. Does that make sense? Rather than what we have kind of
been doing, which is pretty long temporary, and then relying on
that gap to close the permanent.
I want to turn quickly to Ms. Peterson. Can you talk about
the role of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and the grants
that have gone out with regard to electrical grid improvement
and water infrastructure for Hawaii and Maui in particular?
Ms. Peterson. Sure. So, the funds that we use to inspect
both the drinking water and sewer water, those were all through
FEMA. It was not through the IRA process.
We have not done anything in particular in the electrical
grid. Certainly, when they are a little farther in rebuilding
because the solar for all program goes through 2025 and 2026,
this community would be eligible to apply as an underserved
community for solar for different parts of their community.
But at the stage of the rebuilding, there is not--to my
knowledge, we do not have any applications, but I can have our
staff get back to you more further because I am not quite sure.
Ms. Porter. Because my understanding is that Hawaii
generally--and maybe Mr. Case knows more about this--but that
Hawaii generally received like $95 million for electrical grid,
and I just do not know how much of that is then being allocated
out. You know, this is always a challenge I think in any
community. It is a bigger challenge in island communities that
are noncontiguous.
But I think that there was $95 million allocated for
electrical grid improvements and $50 million for water
infrastructure improvements through the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law, and I think EPA--before your time, to be
fair--gave out those grants.
So, I think one of the questions I have for the second
panel, that I am going to stop talking so we can get to, is how
much of that is coming to Maui and whether or not we are
leveraging that effectively to prevent the next disaster.
So, with that, I will stop, and I can thank the Chairman
for his indulgence.
Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. The gentlewoman yields
back her time.
Does the gentlewoman seek time?
Ms. Tokuda. Yes, I do.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman is recognized.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to elaborate a little bit on the line of questioning
there. Mr. Fenton, let us talk about the permanent housing
construction authority. Correct me if I am wrong--and I am
reading your testimony. So, at that point when you could have
triggered the Permanent Housing Construction authority, was the
collective decision of the Mayor and the Governor in talking
with FEMA to instead pursue the route of the Direct Lease?
Or tell me what has to happen just so we can have a
forward-looking view of how do you get us to that permanent
housing construction versus the more temporary transitional
kinds of housing that we are seeing right now.
Mr. Fenton. Yes. So, permanent housing for us is
underneath--our authority is underneath the Stafford Act
408(c)(4), I believe is where it is at. And I think the
limitations there are, one, it has to be a homeowner as we look
at it. And we do--we have done it on some other Pacific
islands. It has to be uninsured. So, you are talking now about
a population that fits that that is probably underneath a
hundred on this. Ninety percent of the people displaced were
renters here. So, it is not, you know, a silver bullet, if you
will, to meet a large need.
Next, it has to be--there has to be no other solutions for
temporary housing, and it has to be cost-effective.
And so, there are a number of other solutions here. There
is Direct Lease. We could put in a temporary unit. There is a
lot of other solutions before you get to housing.
Just to give you an idea, to build on--last time we built
was probably about 10 years ago, out here in the Pacific, maybe
about 8, 10 years ago, and it was about $400,000 per unit to
build.
The cost out here to build is over $900 a square feet right
now. You are talking over a million-something dollars per house
to rebuild out here, which would not make it feasible based on
the authorities that I have right now to do that.
Our authority really focuses on, you know, temporary
solutions. And I have used the ones that provide the most
solutions the quickest, understanding that this will be a need
that probably goes on 6 years here when we have----
Ms. Tokuda. You are basically the houser of last resort----
Mr. Fenton. Yes.
Ms. Tokuda [continuing]. If you will. And so probably,
congressionally, we would have to take a look at whether or not
those authorities could be brought in a bit to take into
account these kind of different situations where we may not
want to look at it just being for the uninsured or for, you
know, a homeowner but particularly, I think in this case, where
there is not many other options.
And I think when you look at our housing market, not many
options is particularly the box that we check off quite well
here. And so, just maybe if we could talk a little bit more
about the permanent--more of the building units, the Kilohana
project, 169.
As you know, for our congressional delegation, and we have
said this multiple times, we would love to just actually see us
get to a thousand temporary units built here, partly because we
know that while the Direct Lease program is great, there is
always, for example, the possibility that after 18 months in
the program, a landlord might decide to opt out.
And so, we need a place where we know we will have to house
individuals for upwards of 5 to 6 years, and something that we
have built and have Kulina over is a lot easier than then
trying to find another lease for these particular families.
So, you know, what is the plans and potential to--as you
know, it takes a while to build--to continue to build beyond
the 169 units that will be completed in October, I believe, or
by October, so we can get a little bit higher in that number
and provide some stability in terms of housing going forward in
the future?
Mr. Fenton. Yes. And we are balancing the build versus the
resiliency needed. We also do not want to build something that
becomes the next risk as we build it.
We are building the 169 units. We are also working with the
primary homeowner's property to put units on their property and
working with them right now.
The next thing we really want to pursue is, rather than
building group sites, we are actually reaching out to the
secondary homeowners, which over 70 percent of the homes up
there are secondary homes. People that own them are not from
this island. Most of them are from the mainland. We want to see
what they are going to do with those lots. Maybe we could rent
those lots from them rather than giving them to the developer,
and we could start putting units on those lots to re-bring back
the community.
So that is a program we are talking to the Mayor about. We
are about to start doing a massive pull out. There is already
1,100 households, properties that meet that, those conditions.
The other thing that we have done is we have actually, in
the past--and I think we do need to come up with better
solutions for the Pacific because it is so unique. We have done
a program with MIT to look at a seed program where we put
something temporary out that becomes then the permanent piece
of the permanent house.
And so, we have worked with MIT and come up with a
prototype where maybe it is the, you know, the kitchen, the
bathroom, a room, and maybe the main room, and then from there,
you could build on to that to make it the permanent solution.
Technology is now catching up with this, and, you know,
whether it is 3D printing or different solutions that we can
start looking at those now, what is agile and can be shipped,
because everything out here, as you know, has to be shipped by
sea, and could meet those kind of things.
So, I think we are in an area now where we need to start
doing that research and unique capabilities for the Pacific as
we have done to kind of speed up the mainland.
Ms. Tokuda. Definitely. I think the more we can build in
some permanence, understanding that this is a long haul for
many of our residents, and we want to give them as much
stability as possible, the better.
Chair, if I may just ask one quick question.
You can answer it, yes or no. You and I have talked about
this, and it was brought up about HUD's interaction. Is there
anything Congress can do, for example, where we can start to
integrate FEMA and HUD's involvement in the sense that, for
example, if FEMA could purchase real property to house
temporarily victims and survivors, and at that point that they
no longer need it, turn it over to HUD for more permanent
housing solutions for the population that they particularly
serve, it would be an investment of money from the Federal
Government that would be much better than a one and done kind
of Direct Lease program.
An increase inventory of affordable units in a community,
we definitely need it here. And so, what needs to be done to--
again, as Representative Porter talked about, we need them
parallel. I would like to see them overlapped so that we can
have the best use of our dollars and, quite frankly, an
increase in inventory in our communities that, ultimately,
everywhere you look across the country, affordable housing is
something that we all need to see in our backyards.
Mr. Fenton. I agree with you that we need to integrate
those authorities better. There is no one solution that fits
every unique jurisdiction's needs, and we need to have some
flexibility in authority that allows us to connect those
authorities better, including funding the CDBG-R right away.
Ms. Tokuda. Very good. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
I will go to my second round.
Colonel, you are now faced with a second year. What lies
ahead for you and the Corps?
Col. Swenson. So, thank you for the question.
We have 1 year under our belt. We have just completed all--
removed all the debris from residential lots in Lahaina town
and in Kula, and we have about 112 lots or so left that we have
to just finish the paperwork on and get them turned back over
to the counties so that those residents can rebuild.
We are about 60 percent complete with commercial debris
removal. That has been a bit more--it started a little later,
and it has been a complex mission, one that we do not do
frequently in all these disasters. So, we are going to spend
time working on that.
And as Mr. Fenton mentioned, we are continuing to support
FEMA's initiatives to help with housing, whether that is
through a lease that the FEMA lease is in, we put an APTHU. It
is essentially a containerized housing unit on top of it. We
are also going to finish building out our Kilohana site to get
those 169 units ready for residents, for fire survivors to move
into.
Mr. Sessions. Good.
Administrator Peterson, you, too, I would really ask the
same question. Your valuable insight has been very useful. Do
you need to be there for recovery? Tell me what your next year,
the second year, looks like for the EPA.
Ms. Peterson. Sure. Thank you for that question.
We are in the process of hiring two staff to be out here
permanently so that we can continue to assist in the water and
sustainability missions because those are really where we see
EPA being able to help resources and link that to the needs
that we see as they arise.
I met with the Mayor yesterday to look at are there other
Wahikuli Terrace-type neighborhoods out there that might need
additional assistance that we are just not aware of yet. So
that is where we see our future.
Mr. Sessions. Great. Thank you very much.
I would yield now to the distinguished gentleman, my
friend, Ed Case, for his follow-up. The gentleman is
recognized.
Mr. Case. Thank you again, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Fenton, this is more of a comment than a question, but
I just want to make sure that everybody heard your general
comments on the phasing of assistance as you go through on a
long-term basis. Because I will tell you that in the many
briefings that I have been in with you and the collective
Federal, state, and local team, what has been most impressive
is where you line things up in just a chart, and you just go
right across over a long-term lay where you know what is
happening here, what has to happen, and when the next tranche
of Federal funding needs to be ready.
And I am completely agreeing with you, again, on the
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Relief, which is the
next big tranche out there. So, I just want to commend you for
that, and I think it is something that if you are--I assume you
are doing this throughout the country every time you have a
disaster, but I think that was done well.
I think that--a question for either Ms. Peterson or Colonel
Swenson. You know, just going back to debris removal, your
testimony was and I think--I think your testimony was that
there's 98 percent removal now of the residential. Is that 98
percent residential lots that have authorized you for removal
or is that the universe of all residential lots?
Col. Swenson. Thank you for that question.
So, we cleared this week 1,300--our 1,390th residential
lot. Now, a residential lot, it is not like zoning. So, it is
not if it is zoned commercial, it is commercial debris. If it
is zoned residential, it is residential. We categorize
residential and commercial debris removal based on the type of
debris.
So, a 180-unit apartment complex that had beds and linens
and sheets and personal effects would be considered residential
debris. So, when I say 1,390 units, that could be one single
family home. It could be one single family home with an ohana
home, or it can be 180 units.
Mr. Case. OK. Here is the reason for my question. Because
if you go back 6 to 8 months when the residential debris
removal program was first instituted, we were getting a 10
percent or so response in terms of authorization at the very,
very beginning from homeowners. And either they did not know
that the program was there, or they did not trust it, or, as I
recall, there was a liability release provision that scared
some homeowners.
And so, what I am asking is, is the universe of people
eligible for the program, is that everybody so that you
actually surmounted that obstacle with the very, you know,
commendable, tailored local approach? Or do we still have a lot
of homeowners out there that just have not opted into debris
removal at all? And if so, why?
Col. Swenson. Sir, I think you can count everyone who has
opted out on one hand or less. We have gotten almost every
single commercial and residential property owner to opt in to
our program, and we did it because we demonstrated success
because we worked with the elders in the community who have
the--who are the respected members who share their knowledge
with the rest of the community. We did it because we hired
local labor who went out and showed residents that we are not
here--this is not the Federal Government here to somehow take
your land. This is people that are from the community doing
this clearance for you and then we give it back. You know, we
relinquish that----
Mr. Case. OK. Well, that is double commendations, because
it was not looking so good 6 to 8 months ago. And so, you
found--and I think that is probably a positive lesson learned
from this experience that can be applied somewhere else in the
country.
A final comment, Chair, and this is an area that the
Subcommittee may want to follow up on, but we have talked about
administrative flexibility with all four of our testifiers
here, and adjusting through administrative flexibility to the
actual needs of the local community I think has been really
positive in all of your situations. But there is a limit to
administrative flexibility. Essentially, sooner or later you
run out of flexibility, and the law itself prevents you from
going any further.
And my question would be, not for here but for later on in
a more deliberate way is, OK, how do we change the law? Like,
what were the limitations that really you just wish, if you
were having a full disaster response here, that you had the
obstacles presented by the law where we can actually amend
them?
I think one example, which we have not talked about, was
the ineligibility of compact-free association residents for key
Federal programs, which we solved, but that was a limitation in
the law. We could not do anything about it. The Red Cross came
in and picked up that burden. That was a great cost share--I
mean, not cost share but responsibility sharing. So, commending
you for that.
But I think this is an important thing to ask is, you know,
where can the laws be changed to accommodate some of the
challenges that we saw?
With that, I yield back.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you
very much.
I want to thank our first panel. I believe you have
provided substance that not only enumerated your value add from
you and your organizations, but you, to the highest of ability,
presented yourself to where the people of this beautiful island
felt like that you came, did the right thing, and offered an
opportunity that really we, as Americans, would like and
provided it. And I want to thank each of you for that.
Before I offer an adjournment to you, for the people who
were earlier advised that we would take their comments, I would
like to ask that any sheets of paper, if anybody has a comment,
would be placed up on that table at the end of the table, and
we will gather those. And I really express my thanks to each of
you.
Pursuant to the previous order, the Chair declares the
Committee in recess for 10 minutes, subject to the call of the
Chair, where we will make the changes necessary to not only
excuse the first panel that is now excused but to call up the
second panel.
And the Committee now stands in recess for 10 minutes.
[Recess.]
Mr. Sessions. The Committee will come to order.
I want to thank each of our witnesses who are here and
prepared to give testimony. I would also like to thank those of
you who are gathered together to hear this as the audience. And
I want to commend you and let each of you know, in case you are
just now walking in, that there are sheets of paper that are
provided for you to provide us feedback also, and that we would
appreciate and respect your feedback on those sheets of paper.
We will have--J.D., where are you? I do not--where is he?
OK. Sheets of paper--J.D. is not here. He was there a minute
ago. The sheets of paper are where?
Staff. On this blue table.
Mr. Sessions. On this blue table. If anyone would wish for
us to receive your feedback, that is what we are here to do
also.
I am now pleased to introduce our second panel, including
the young Mayor. They represent state and local witnesses who
have been an equal part of not only serving the people of this
island, but really the people of the United States of America.
My comments earlier, I would wish to make now, and that is,
Mr. Mayor, you lived through this. We watched it but you lived
through it, and the people of this island suffered, and it was
personal, and it was a different experience for them.
But the people of the United States also watched how the
people of this island handled this and the devastation that
took place, and we offered our--not only our prayers but also
those of resiliency and braveness that were met by each of you.
And so, if you have just walked into this, please know that
we have tried to respectfully approach this issue with my
colleagues who are--one who is from California and two are from
the islands here, and that we believe what we want to do is
express to you that we have come to hear from the witnesses
that we have had. First, the Federal witnesses and now the
state witnesses. And we believe these witnesses represent the
resiliency of this island, not just the hopes and dreams, not
just the culture, but the future.
And so, I would like to express, on behalf of my colleagues
of the U.S. Congress, as well as those colleagues that I have
that serve on government reform and oversight. My name is Pete
Sessions, and I serve as Chairman of the Government Operations
and Federal Workforce, which is a Subcommittee that is
authorized, literally, within and by the Constitution of the
United States.
We do not come and tell people how to do--government
agencies how to run their business. We expect that the law and
those parameters do that, but we do follow up, and we receive
oversight instructions, and we follow up because we care about
things that the government becomes engaged in.
Last, we made a decision some 6 or 8 months ago that we
would delay coming to the island with the knowledge that 6
months ago much of the work was still underway, that the work
would not be put on the side for us to come and do this but,
rather, it would continue.
So, Mr. Mayor, as I told you and I think that you agreed,
we are not late. We think we are on time, and I think you
agreed with that. But today is that day, and today is that day
where community leaders will be able to express their feedback
of what lies ahead and what needs to be done.
So, I would open up--do you wish to make an opening
statement? The gentlewoman is recognized--or Ed, if you do.
Katie is not here, so we will come to you.
Ms. Tokuda. No, Mr. Chair, but just to thank. You have here
leaders of our community that represent literally thousands of
other individuals throughout Lahaina, Maui, and our state that
absolutely stepped up, many of them survivors themselves, but
have done so much to support our community.
And so, I am very humbled and honored and grateful to be a
part of this community as the Representative but really very
blessed that we have these leaders here today. So, thank you
again for being here and bringing this hearing to Lahaina where
it really should always be, the discussion right here, coming
to the people. So, mahalo.
Mr. Sessions. Thank you.
My colleague from the Committee, the distinguished
gentlewoman from California, do you choose to make an opening
statement?
Ms. Porter. I do not.
Mr. Sessions. Do not.
Mr. Case, do you choose to say anything?
Mr. Case. Ms. Tokuda spoke for me, so there you go.
Mr. Sessions. Great. Thank you very much.
Well, we are delighted. We are going to proceed then. I am
pleased to introduce our witnesses: Major General Kenneth Hara.
His duties as adjutant general for the state of Hawaii began on
December 6, 2019.
General, thank you for being here. We appreciate this.
Our young Mayor, Richard Bissen, the Mayor of the city of
Maui since January 2023. Mr. Mayor, thank you for not just your
friendship but for your resiliency to be able to accept us
coming here to ask questions and to hear from you and for what
lies ahead. Thank you, sir.
We next have Ms. Lauren Nahme--and when I say it wrong, you
are entitled to correct me because I speak Texan--Senior Vice
President of the Hawaii Community Foundation, Maui Recovery
Office. Thank you for being here.
And I apologize for accusing you of being the Mayor's wife.
His wife made sure, she said to the Mayor ``get that--tell that
Texan to get it right.'' So, Lauren, thank you very much.
Next, we have Sne Patel, Board President of Lahaina Town
Action Committee. And we appreciate you being here, sir. Thank
you very much, Mr. Patel.
And last, we have Mr. Keeaumoku Kapu. I will let you now
pronounce your name properly, sir.
Mr. Kapu. Keeaumoku Kapu.
Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. Serves as president and
CEO of the local organization and is focused on the importance
of not just heritage, but the culture that comes with it and I
want to thank our panel very much.
We are now going to have you rise. And each you would raise
your hand, your right hand and wish this is for you to be
sworn.
Pursuant to Committee Rule 9(g), we are now going to ask
you do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony that you
are about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but
the truth so help you God?
[Response].
Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much. Please let the record
reflect that all witnesses answered in the affirmative.
You may now take your seat. Those of you who got here early
recognize what we are going to do here, we are going to move
through what might be a 5-minute opportunity for you to provide
this Committee with your feedback, your testimony, that while
we have read, it is important for you to give. I will also tell
you, Mr. Patel, perhaps most important to you, you do not have
to stick within the 5 minutes, but I would ask that you make
your points and then conclude your remarks with the knowledge
that we will come back and ask those questions.
We will now move directly to our first witness. General,
you are recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF MAJOR GENERAL KENNETH HARA
ADJUTANT GENERAL OF HAWAII
General Hara. Chair Sessions, Ranking Member Porter,
members of the Hawaii delegation, good afternoon and aloha. I
am Major General Kenneth Hara, the Adjutant General for the
state of Hawaii Department of Defense and also the overall
State Incident Commander for the Maui wildfires response.
In the aftermath of the August 8 Maui wildfires, Federal,
state, county and private and local organizations rapidly
mobilized and responded to providing lifesaving, life
sustaining and remains recovery operations. These entities
worked together to quickly provide sheltering solutions to the
survivors of the Maui wildfires. The Federal response, in
particular, was very organized and grew rapidly over the course
of the recovery operations.
For example, once private property and commercial zones
were cleared, the Environmental Protection Agency commenced
household hazardous material removal, which allowed the
residents and loved ones to reenter their properties and safely
retrieve valuables, including items of sentimental value.
This immense Federal response enabled the county and state
to rapidly transition to long-term recovery operations.
Throughout the recovery and response period, state, Federal
resources also worked hard to support the county of Maui and
adhere to the guidance and vision of Maui community leaders.
Culture considerations, historic preservation and environmental
planning have all been important priorities during the Maui
wildfire response process and our Federal partners have been
responsive to that emphasis throughout. In short, coordinated
response to the Maui wildfires has been remarkable at all
levels.
My testimony will focus on the cooperation and
accomplishments with respect to interagency coordination,
interim and long-term housing, debris removal and cost share
Federal reimbursement.
In support of the recovery efforts, the Federal Government
has provided a wide range of resources, primarily via FEMA, the
U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, Department of Housing and Urban
Development, Small Business Administration, Department of the
Interior, Economic Development Administration, and the
Department of Health and Human Services.
For example, in the immediate aftermath of the wildfires
state of Hawaii and FEMA Region 9 established a joint recovery
coordination group led by Luke Meyers, the Hawaii State Federal
Disaster Recovery Coordinator and Alana Kuhn, the Federal
Disaster Coordinator. The scope, scale and complexity of the
fire's aftermath required a whole of community recovery
approach organized into six recovery support functions,
community planning and capacity building, economic
infrastructure systems, health and social services, natural and
culture resources, and housing.
The joint team effectively coordinated operational resource
and policy issues. Longer term recovery efforts have led the
Hawaii office of Recovery and Resiliency, what would be called
ORR, which leads the state coordinated efforts for Federal,
state, county, private partners. Last fall, the ORR worked
closely with Federal disaster recovery coordinators and the
interagency recovery coordination group, which have coordinated
Federal recovery efforts.
Interagency coordination has also been key to developing
sheltering and housing solutions. Immediately following the
wildfires, the County of Maui provided congregate shelters for
displaced individuals. Meanwhile Governor Green directed to get
these individuals out of the congregate shelters and the
survivors into non-congregate shelters as soon as possible. In
support of that goal, Hawaii contracted the American Red Cross
to manage the state's Non-Congregate Sheltering program.
For the complex debris removal, the state of Hawaii
contracted the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, or USACE, as a
prime contractor for the Maui's complex debris removal project.
USACE'S planning and communication with all stakeholders has
been extremely inclusive and effective. In addition to
subcontracting local companies, the USACE team contracted
trusted culture advisors and culture monitors for the project.
They maintained a clear communication by holding weekly
community recovery meetings that ensured transparency and
responsiveness to local concerns.
In conclusion, the overall response for the Maui wildfires
has been nothing short of extraordinary and we are immensely
grateful to the Federal partners who have come alongside us in
this effort. We look forward to continuing to work together as
we recover and rebuild Maui.
Once again, the state of Hawaii thanks the Subcommittee for
your attention in that matter. And we look forward to further
discussion and collaboration. Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time. Thank you
very much.
Mr. Mayor, please know that my colleagues that are here and
gathered today, as well as the wishes from the U.S. Congress,
in particular the Committee that I represent, Government Reform
and Oversight, wishes to tell you that we have come out here
for the right reasons and that is to not only tell you that we
care about you, but also to listen. And we are delighted with
your professional nature and your viewpoint of this meeting.
So, the gentleman is now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF RICHARD BISSEN
MAYOR
MAUI COUNTY
Mayor Bissen. Aloha mai kakou, Chairman Sessions and
Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to
speak with you today. While this hearing focuses on response
efforts in Lahaina, we were also faced with multiple fires in
Kula, Olinda, and Pulehu on August 8, 2023. We continue to
mourn the tragic loss of 102 of our loved ones and the two that
are still unaccounted for.
In one night, 12,000 of our people were displaced, 2,200
homes and commercial buildings were destroyed and numerous
historical sites were lost, leaving debris scattered over more
than 5 square miles. Despite this devastating loss, we moved
forward acutely focused on restoring homes, schools,
communities, centers, businesses, and natural habitat.
Families remain in temporary housing and face mounting
costs from mortgage payments that will be owed once forbearance
expires. Survivors struggle with financial instability,
childcare and healthcare needs, and increasing mental health
concerns.
Our businesses and industries have endured severe economic
loss. We are sincerely appreciative of the work of our Federal
partners. It is my hope that our testimony today will encourage
continued support for Maui and ensure that survivors of the
next investable disaster will benefit from our experience.
I am grateful for the response and leadership of FEMA
Region 9 for their consistent and continued presence throughout
this disaster. Most notable is how FEMA has adapted to our
unique cultural and island community needs, including the
effective use of cultural monitors and the flexibility to
respond to emerging concerns.
Due to our isolated location, the unique nature of our
housing market, and our high percentage of renters, finding
adequate housing near work schools and community posed a
distinct challenge. Consequently, survivors dealt with the
uncertainty and challenge of moving multiple times while in non
non-congregate housing, endured a burdensome process of
complicated applications and experienced confusion navigating
FEMA eligibility requirements, all while suffering through
post-disaster trauma.
Although FEMA designed to offer temporary housing solutions
for survivors, many of these options were impractical for an
island community already grappling with a severe housing
crisis. Additionally, FEMA's rental assistance program posed
unintended consequences negatively impacting our rental housing
market island-wide, causing further distress for other Maui
residents who were displaced unintentionally.
Permanent housing options earlier in the response would
have been ideal. Expanding FEMA's permanent housing
construction program to states outside the Continental U.S.
could provide a viable approach to addressing long-term housing
solutions. Also integrating HUD early into the recovery process
would also expedite permanent housing options.
I also want to recognize the SBA for the approval of $405
million in low-interest disaster loans which provided financial
assistance to help Maui begin to rebuild. However, the
perception that SBA funds were intended solely for businesses
rather than individuals suggests that clearer messaging could
help reduce misconceptions and delays in accessing critical
funds.
Next, I want to acknowledge the support of the EPA which
led our unique hazardous household waste disposal operations,
including the collection and disposal of lithium-ion batteries
from electric vehicles and solar panels. Also, EPA's water
emergency team worked with county departments to expedite the
restoration of our water systems and offered free inspections
to help residents adhere to cesspool compliance issues.
Last, I would like to thank USACE for their crucial and
expedited role in debris removal for residential and commercial
properties and restoring infrastructure so our residents can
begin to rebuild. I also applaud the remarkable achievement in
constructing King Kamehameha III Elementary School's temporary
campus in just 95 days, creating a learning environment for 350
students.
Continued financial and programmatic support from our state
and Federal partners is crucial to the preservation and
livelihood of our people and the success of this recovery. A
special mahalo to our Hawaii congressional delegation, Governor
Green, Lieutenant Governor Luke, and our state partners, our
county workforce, including the 76 who lost their own homes.
And our local community partners for their unwavering support
through this most difficult time.
Most importantly, I want to recognize the incredible
strength of our people, many who have endured inconceivable
suffering but continue to push forward with incredible grit,
sacrifice, and immeasurable courage. And while we can rebuild
structures, if we do not return Lahaina to the very people who
represent the spirit and the soul of our community, if we do
not recognize the faces of our friends and our family as we
repopulate then we will have lost this battle for our people.
And even one more family lost is one too many. Mahalo.
Mr. Sessions. Mr. Mayor, we acknowledge and respect not
only the effort that you and others who will speak today, but
with great respect I will recognize and do, as well as my
colleagues, that each of you have a task today and that is to
represent people.
Your words are sincere, your accomplishments can and should
be noted, but we are here also to look to the future about how
we will continue to work with you based upon the past that we
think is important.
So, for each of you who now follow the Mayor, please know
this that we do recognize the heartfelt emotion that comes with
this. And you will be given that time to express that and we
respect it. Sir, thank you very much.
We now move to our next witness, Lauren Nahme. The
gentlewoman is recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF LAUREN NAHME
SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, MAUI RECOVERY EFFORT
HAWAII COMMUNITY FOUNDATION
Ms. Nahme. Aloha, Chairman Sessions and your distinguished
Members of your Subcommittee. On behalf of the Hawaii Community
Foundation, I would like to acknowledge and mahalo the
leadership of our country, the state of Hawaii, Maui County,
the not for-profit business and global donor community for
their support and collaboration through this very intense,
tragic, complex disaster.
I would like to especially acknowledge the leadership of
Governor Josh Green and Mayor Richard Bissen and all of their
staff for working nonstop to lead emergency and recovery effort
since the very beginning the while keeping the rest of the
county and state operating.
I would also like to mahalo our Senators Hirono and Schatz,
and U.S. Representatives Tokuda and Case for their continuous
advocacy for Hawaii and keeping Maui's recovery top of mind for
Congress. My original testimony submitted has a lot of
background and supporting information and I will just highlight
a few points.
Our work and disaster support includes not only strategic
grant-making through the Maui Strong Fund, but also sharing
information, convening, coordinating, and collaborating with a
range of partners to optimize responsiveness to needs while
leveraging philanthropic dollars to fill gaps and minimize
overlaps with government resources. So, what you do matters to
us.
To date, we have received $200 million in contributions,
including $5.8 million in interest earnings that we have
contributed back into the fund. We have not charged an
administrative fee on the contribution, so the entire sum will
go to Maui's recovery.
So far, we have awarded over 250 grants for $112 million,
with $12 million more sitting in the pipeline for approval. We
have raised funds independent of the Maui Strong Fund to
support the operations and administration of these funds.
Because this recovery will be long and with a multibillion-
dollar price tag, a core part of our strategic focus is to do
our very best to understand prioritized needs, compliment and
leverage public resources rather than duplicate, keep our eye
out for the vulnerable, and be as data informed as possible.
Accordingly, we made an early commitment to partner with a
few organizations and several strategic grants that would focus
in on those who may fall through the cracks of public disaster
resources and post-process which as outlined in my testimony
original testimony. What has been clear and consistent
throughout our formal and informal data gathering via our
partners, grantees and survivors is that uncertainty
surrounding current and future resources and timetables is a
significant factor impacting the ongoing and mental health,
wellbeing, and recovery of our community.
Uncertainty related to housing, which we have heard so much
about, employment, and reconnection with neighbors and friends
hinges largely on federally provided public resources and
planning and execution efforts of the state and county. To
start, while non-congregate shelters were a necessary and
standard part of response to disasters of this kind that
displace people from homes, the lack of certainty of placement,
length of stay, and possibility of movement was repeatedly
expressed as unsettling and we also know very costly.
In response, HCF collaborated with FEMA, the state, colony
and other philanthropic organizations to develop time-bound
plan and committed very significant resources for housing for
at least 18 months for 3,000 households providing the certainty
that families desperately sought.
While the interim housing plan was a great demonstration
for all of us working together but still not perfect,
challenges that still exist and need immediate attention
include the unaffordable rents that have increased in ranges of
50 to 200 percent or pre-disaster levels creating a sub-crisis
of its own as local residents are displaced when leases are
either not renewed or renewed with exorbitant increases. This
is another group of disaster effected residents who represent
our friends, families, and critical contributors to our
community and workforce, and many have either left or
contemplated leaving.
Additionally, there are very significant concerns regarding
the impending resource cliffs when FEMA and other significant
resources sunset as early as February 2025 without clear
alternative paths and options for families.
Improved forecasting and delivery of needs and affordable
housing, living wage jobs, healthcare and other family
resources are required and must be solidified with a sense of
urgency to reduce and eliminate longstanding uncertainty for
families.
A clear win to celebrate as we have heard about, the United
States Army Corps of Engineers has made significant progress
ahead of schedule with debris cleared from residential
properties and potable water restored to all of Lahaina, thanks
to the EPA. It is even more crucial right now for homeowners to
know what resources are available to rebuild and when.
Additionally, certainty and urgent authorization of CDBG-DR
funding is crucial to continue this very positive momentum, to
accelerate recovery, and reduce financial and mental health
hardships for survivors. It is not clear what is holding this
up.
In closing, while our commentary has been focused on the
recovery, we hope and believe that Maui can be a model not just
for how a people and a place will prepare and respond to a
disaster, but to ultimately rethink the economic and wellbeing
construct for our broader Hawaii and other island communities.
Mahalo for this opportunity to participate and share what
we are doing, what we have learned, and what we look forward
to. We also deeply appreciate your demonstration of care and
commitment by being here in person to listen, inquire,
understand, and pursue informed action. We are ready to
continue our participation and coordination with all parties to
fully support the successful recovery and ultimate resilience
of our friends and families on Maui.
Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. Thank you very much.
Mr. Kapu, thank you for being here today. You have been
most respectful, I think, in your presentation as I have
watched you these past several hours. We are delighted that you
are here and the gentleman is now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF KEEAUMOKU KAPU
PRESIDENT & CEO
NA AIKANE O MAUI
Mr. Kapu. Greetings to all Committee and Subcommittee
Representatives in assessing the Federal Government's response
to 2023 Maui wildfire. Aloha. My name is Keeaumoku Kapu of
Lahaina Ko Hawaii Pae Aina. And my family are recognized lineal
descendants to two valleys, Kahoma as well as Kaua'ula. And we
live on land awarded to our families through the existing
constitutional kingdom in the seat of government once situated
here in Lahaina in 1848 until today.
I am the youngest of seven children of my father, Paul
Kekai Kapu, who served in the United States Marine Corps from
1950 to 1960 and my mother, Pualoke Ha'o from Mo ko kai od day.
Our organization, Na Aikane o Maui, was formed and founded
back in 2011 as a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization to help our
general community as a resource hub to our in-depth history of
Lahaina and to assist in traditional protocols within the
sensitivity of our customs, protocols, and beliefs.
I have sat on many boards and commissions such as the Maui
County Cultural Resources and Commission in 2001 to 2004 and
reappointed to the Commission as of 2023 to 2023. I also served
on the Maui Lana' Burial Council through the State Historic
Preservation Division from 2004 and the Chairman from 2008 to
2012. Served on the Native Hawaiian Historic Preservation
Council in advisory to the Board of Trustees of the Office of
Hawaiian Affairs from 2004 to 2014. I also served on the West
Pacific Regional Fisheries Council--it is a Federal management
agency in--2007 to 2014.
I stand before you as a testament to a place that was
almost erased to total commercial and industrialization. King
Kamehameha III school no longer here today. The royal compound
be a reminder of how our paradise disappeared. Now that we are
dealing directly with scattered remains throughout the entire
campus grounds of the royal compound known to many as the
capital of the Kingdom of Hawaii, where a lot of our monarchial
foundations once stood.
Lahaina is known as the Venice of the Pacific, hence the
name known by our elders, Malu'ulu o Lele, the breadfruit
grottos of Lele.
The Federal Government's response had been great throughout
the recovery process and beyond. Some hiccups when it comes to
the protection of historic properties, especially when dealing
with burials and understanding more of the roles of Hawaii
burials laws through the Hawaii revised statues and
administrative rules could need a lot of more clearing up and
understanding on both the Federal and state levels of
governance. When it comes to the rights of the general public's
need to know, should be a directive from the State Historic
Preservation Division and the Maui Lanai Island Burial Council.
We Na'Aikane o Maui extend our gratitude to the Federal
Government for all assistance in an expeditious way by
prioritizing the needs of our community's health, safety,
livelihood for the benefit of our future generations and
tomorrow.
In closing, I would just like to add, and as a Kupono in
the back reminded to me, that it is very complex that we live
that we have also got to remember we are under the guides of Ke
Akua up above that we also need to honor him, especially during
these times of need.
So, in closing, I would just like to add Na keakua e
ho'opomaika'l a'e malama is kakou, may the Lord continuously
bless each and every one of us always. Mahalo. Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. Mr. Kapu, thank you very much.
I will tell you I think we pray to the same God, and we
also have significant impact from Mother Nature. And whether
you live in Waco, Texas as I do or whether you live on these
islands, you could come into contact with both. Your faith and
resiliency was expressed today. I appreciate you taking time to
be with us. I would like to ask that you stick around for a few
minutes more. But I think the power of your testimony is
greatly appreciated. The gentleman now yields back his time.
Mr. Patel, we are delighted that you are here. The
gentlemen is recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF SNE PATEL
LAHAINA TOWN ACTION COMMITTEE
Mr. Patel. Aloha esteemed Members. My name is Sne Patel,
and I stand before you today as the President of the Lahaina
Town Action Committee. Before I share my experiences from this
unprecedented event, I wanted to first just thank you all for
being here in this physical space and coming to us rather than
all of us coming to D.C., so really want to thank you for that
and commend you.
So, greater resilience is what we seek in a world that
continues to provide challenges. And I believe that by working
together we can share our collective wisdom, just as the
ancestors of these lands once did. We can do better for
ourselves and for generations to come. As I learned from
Keeaumoku Kapu here, the future is in the past. We have got ask
ourselves, right, what kind of future are we leaving for our
kids, for keiki? Lahaina is not just a place, it is a cherished
sacred part of Hawaii's identity. And as we move forward, we
are committed here to assuring that it shines brightly again,
not just for today, tomorrow, but for future generations.
As I mentioned, I am the current President for Lahaina Town
Action Committee. The organization was founded nearly 40 years
ago by business leaders in Lahaina and the LAC has always
strived to strike that balance between the economic vitality of
Lahaina as well as well as the cultural and the historic.
So August 8, that was a big event. I do not come here just
as an individual represent businesses but someone that has
lived here 20 plus years in west Maui, married father of three,
and someone who has lost property as well. I have experienced
the profound impacts of a disaster on both a personal and
professional. However, nothing compares to the heartbreak of
the families who lost loved ones that day. So, take a moment to
just honor them, those 102 lives.
In the immediate aftermath of the wildfire, the businesses
that remained standing were among the first to step up. There
was no division or distinctions, just a unified effort to
shelter, feed, and support those who had lost everything.
Witnessing this firsthand, even under the heavy weight of the
fire's aftermath, was a testament to our strength, the strength
of our community.
For weeks we operated on a mutual foundation of mutual aid,
doing whatever we could to support each other in this time of
need. However, as the days turned to weeks, it became evident
that our efforts, though valiant, were not sustainable without
more structured support.
And so, I thank all the Federal agencies that came, all the
state agencies, everybody. Mahalo them because tremendous
effort.
The destruction of the businesses on Front Street and other
parts of Lahaina represent a monumental and economic loss. But
this is not just about individual businesses, but the economic
and cultural heart of west Maui. We know tourism, alone, drove
70 percent of the economy and many of the small businesses
along Lahaina's historic Front Street were not only integral to
the part of the local heritage, but also key to the daily
livelihood of thousands.
Losing these businesses has meant losing a significant
portion of our community's income, jobs, and security. For
generations, Lahaina was not just a historic town, it was a hub
of commerce, culture, education, and connection. There are
restaurants, art galleries, museums, historic sites, and marine
businesses. They all blended together to provide livelihoods
for many and attracted visitors from all over the world. The
destruction of the town is not just a financial blow, it
represents a deep wound to the identity of west Maui.
You can still feel the shock waves that are already felt
throughout this community. However, my greatest fear is that
the tsunami yet to come if we do not act fast with the right
level of support, it is going to be too late.
The wildfires, you know, the Mayor said destroyed 2,200
structures including around 800 businesses which collectively
generated approximately $2.7 million in daily revenue. Tourism
declined from 7,000 daily to 2,000 that lead to an estimated
loss of about $11 million per day in visitor expenditures.
Overall, economic losses, including property damage, in
businesses to business interruptions are estimated between 4 to
6 billion, this is from UHERO and DEBT.
Business owners, many of whom were under insured, are
facing an uncertain future. Workers who depend on those jobs
are now out of work. And we are losing people each day to the
mainland. Given the level of devastation and the need to update
much of the infrastructure it may be years before businesses
can even think about rebuilding and reopening. For many the
question is not just how they will reopen, but whether they can
afford to at all. Even those that are back in operation are
struggling and those looking to restart are finding that lease
rents have increased exponentially with the demand for
commercial space making it harder for them to get back on their
feet.
By the end of the first month following the fire, the
Lahaina Town Action Committee began receiving calls from many
of the businesses seeking answers, guidance, and a path. And in
response, we facilitated a critical meeting on September 5,
2023, with the support from State Senator Lynn Decoite and both
the Maui Chamber of Commerce, Hawaii Chamber of Commerce. The
meeting was attended by 100 businesses and key government
officials, including the Mayor, the Governor, members of the
state, various state agencies, department heads, Congresswoman
Jill Tokuda, thank you.
During the meeting, several immediate needs were
identified, highlighting both the challenges faced and the
opportunities for improvement and recovery efforts,
specifically for small businesses.
I know we are short on time. I have a lot of here notes
from that meeting I could share. So, I have a lot of SBA
comments that I can share. And I know, out of respect for time,
I will conclude. So, I thank you for your time. I look forward
to working with all of you to find workable solutions that
allow our businesses and the community to recover and thrive
once again. It is going to take all of us. We all need to be in
a boat navigating together, together.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time.
It does us good on this side of this dais to know that each
of you have placed your hand on the pulse of emotion because
you were a part of living through this. You are a part of day-
to-day work that went on. You are a part of the creation of how
you sustain people. There has been talk about God and the
beauty of this island--these islands and the need to make sure
that as we move forward we do this together.
I would hope that each of you understand that we respect
you and we do understand the importance of the emotion that is
related, not just to your historical background or the legacy
that you respect so much, but also to that moving forward. So,
I hope that what we do today on this side of the dais is
respectful back for you.
And I have every reason to believe that it will be. But I
want to personally thank you and the people who sit behind you.
We did not think we would come out here and hold a normal
hearing just where we would ask questions and then take the
information and leave. We recognize this is a longer process.
So, with great respect as the Chairman of this Subcommittee, I
want to thank each of you.
With that, we will now move to the distinguished
gentlewoman from California for her 5 minutes. The gentlewoman
is recognized.
Ms. Porter. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mayor Bissen, I wanted to ask about to return to housing,
which is a big part of your testimony and something we talked
about earlier. The truth is we do not have enough affordable
housing anywhere in the Nation at this point. That is true in
my home state of California. It is increasingly true even in
states that have historically have lower housing, like Mr.
Sessions' state of Texas. But for a long time, Hawaii has been
the most expensive state in the Nation to buy a home. What is
about the median typical home price here on the island?
Mayor Bissen. One-point-two million dollars.
Ms. Porter. OK. And what is about the typical median
income, if you know?
Mayor Bissen. Well, I know it would take for someone to
afford a home today, you would have to earn $200,000 a year to
afford buying a house now. 5 years ago, 10 years ago, it would
have been $76,000 to afford a home here. So that is----
Ms. Porter. A huge change.
Mayor Bissen. Yes, yes.
Ms. Porter. So, I think it is just not realistic to expect
people to buy a $1.2--or let us even say they get something
smaller, a $1 million dollar home, off a median wage, which
right now in Maui, the island as a whole, so that is about
$88,000 a year. It was too expensive to live here before the
fire. So, here is the point I want to make and I want to ask
for panelists to respond. You cannot expect the market--Mr.
Fenton, I am kind of talking to you here too--you cannot expect
the market to fix something after a natural disaster when it
was--the market was already deeply dysfunctional beforehand.
So, in other words, where you already had an affordable
housing crisis before the fire and what the fire has done is
deepen and worsen that problem, but it has also created a
spotlight on it and drawn attention to it. And just to
highlight this point, from 2018 to 2023, in that 5 years in
which housing prices increased, do you know how many net
housing units were added on Maui?
Mayor Bissen. I do not have the exact number, but it was a
very small number.
Ms. Porter. According to our research, Maui actually lost
175 units. So, I think what I would like to ask each of you to
think about is how do we improve this? We cannot just rely on
the market, because the market was not getting it done before.
It is not going to suddenly get it done now. And some of the
Federal interventions, in some ways, made the market worse,
more difficult.
Some of them I think will help and make it better, but we
just have a broken market. Right now, what share of residential
zoned--what share of the island that is zoned for residential
property is zoned for multifamily housing, do you know?
Mayor Bissen. I do not know the percentage, no.
Ms. Porter. According to our research, a little over 18
percent. So, that is higher by the way than the rest of Hawaii,
which is around 7.5 percent. So, I think we are going to need
some flexibility about what types of homes we build, what kinds
of materials we use to build homes, what those homes look like.
And we have to do that in a way that respects the heritage, the
preferences, the cultural significance.
So, there is no one-size-fits-all answer here, but I guess
I would just say--the question I would like to hear you sort of
talk about and I will start with you, Mayor, is what do we need
to change to create a better market for affordable housing in
Maui? I mean, because if we do not answer that, we are not
going to figure out in Lahaina where we have a fire on top of
that.
Mayor Bissen. Yes. I think the first answer I would offer
you is infrastructure, including water. Water is probably the
greatest barrier, at least for the west side. And I know Mr.
Kapu can speak to this having lived through this for the time
he has lived out here. 76 percent of the water on the west side
is privately owned, 24 percent is owned by government or
county.
And that is, again, one of the barriers for us to work
with. I mean, of course you can try to increase your capacity
by--which is what we have been trying to do just to dig more
wells to try to offer that. I mean, there are other things we
can work with the private purveyors to try to acquire more of
that water back.
But even if you acquire the water, it is allocated by the
state agency that allocates how much water we are allowed to
take out of our water systems. So, even if you, let us say take
over some of that 76 percent, that water is already allocated
to somebody else anyway.
So, those are some of the challenges that I have learned of
since becoming mayor. And part of the infrastructure for us is,
of course, cesspools being converted so that can be put on the
county's system. Wastewater system, so, increasing wastewater
capacity--you must have that before you can add more homes. So,
I would say that is probably the--the biggest issue is
infrastructure.
Ms. Porter. Yes. And I think that is an area where
rebuilding can give us a fresh start, an opportunity to
improve. As you mentioned, before I wrap up, Ms. Nahme, did you
want to add anything?
Ms. Nahme. Yes, thank you. I wish our CEO Micah was here,
because prior to the fire this was an area of huge focus called
House Maui and informed now by the fire, for sure, that
probably has to bump up on steroids. And so, we are really
thankful that that is going to be a continued focus for the
Hawaii Community Foundation.
And we also just recently hired Keanu Lau Hee as my
replacement and she will cover both the Maui recovery as well
as focusing on House Maui.
And because she has a lot of the relationships locally here
and also with the county and a lot of experience there, the
hope is that there will be this collective, because as mayor
said, it will going to take state, county, community, cultural
advisors, to all come up with again time-bound, measured kind
of goal that everybody has to shoot for an issue that is going
to require innovative strategies that we are learning from this
disaster that we can implement to make sure that it truly is
affordable based on what the median household income is.
Ms. Porter. Yes, thank you very much. I think this is
really a lesson for communities across the United States who
are grappling with affordable housing problems that are
affecting everything from rising homelessness problems which we
are dealing with in California and many other places, to being
able to attract businesses to their communities. You have to
get ahead of this because it just makes the recovery that many
times harder.
And so, I encourage, you know, everyone here to continue to
be in conversation with each other, but also to be innovative
because I think redoing what you were doing is not going to get
you where you ultimately need to be because you were already in
a whole struggle before you started. And we are facing the
exact change challenge in California, that rebuilding would
leave us behind because we were starting from that place in
terms of housing affordability.
So, I will yield back. Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
The gentlewoman, Tokuda, is recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you. And, again, thank you to the panel.
We have walked together many, many days, it feels like years,
but truly grateful to have all of you out there on the
frontlines doing what you are doing every single day.
To piggyback, you know, to Representative Porter's
question, in many ways this fire ripped back the curtain for
how we have struggled to just survived here in Hawaii from a
housing perspective.
Permitted versus unpermitted, you just do what you have to
do, many of us living on top of each other just to be able to
make ends meet. And then you see the crisis when something like
fire happens and suddenly displacement is for not just a few
but literally thousands and thousands of people who have been
living together just to be able to get by.
We see it not just here in Lahaina and Maui, we see it on
every single island and so it is about being creative. It is
also about how we build housing people can afford. I never talk
about affordable anymore because even that is out of reach for
most of our people right now.
But looking at it, I know you talked a little bit about
infrastructure, General Hara, please chime in as well, I know
we have the recovery plan coming to fruition toward the end of
the year, hoping that is on track.
But also, just wondering that as, you know, we have heard a
lot of comments today about needing to move faster to rebuild
and permits being issued right now for various rebuilding and
houses here in Lahaina.
I just want to make sure that as we are issuing these
permits and we are quickly looking to rebuild, are we making
sure that we keep all of our options open to making sure we
rebuild back better? Having visited Paradise, California, much
of it was centered around keeping people safe and making them
feel safe, so removing the fire risk.
So, when we talk about the need potentially to underground
facilities, to widen streets that were not wide enough to be
able to allow people quick exit and whatnot, are we making sure
that the rebuilding, the recovery plan includes things that
will make our community as a whole safe and reflect the vision
of the community? That it is not at cross purposes with just
issuing permits quickly. Do you know what I am saying?
Mayor Bissen. Yes, it is a balance that has to be struck.
So, there have been 156 permits that have already been
submitted and the 48 of those have been approved. This is just
in Lahaina and couple in Kula and there are 20 homes that are
currently being rebuilt right now in Lahaina. I think your
point about having the material be fire resistant, fire
retardant is obviously part of the messaging that having people
build safer is of course something that has been also promoted.
But I wanted to share is, for us, probably our main policy
is to try to put the same people back in the same homes, on the
same--because the risk that is threatened by is the people who
are leaving. And, you know, building it back nice and safe, but
having it be an entirely new group of people occupying would
not be our goal. And so, there is the balance that I was just
talking about.
There are very big differences between Paradise and Lahaina
in terms of the makeup of the community. That was more of a
retirement community. It did not have the type of industry and
they struggled for rebuilding because lots of that community
decided not to return. And, of course, here we want our people
to return and so there have been some differences. But I would
say, you are absolutely right, we have to balance speed with
the safety.
Ms. Tokuda. And not necessarily impede the speed, but we
have to make sure the planning and the approval of permits
reflects, perhaps, even everyone's desire, including those
homeowners applying for those permits, desire to build back
smarter. And if we keep the exact footprints, are we precluding
ourselves from building safer so undergrounding, widening,
those types of things.
And so, I just hope that all of that is a parallel, but not
just in parallel, they kind of overlap each other as I have
been talking about. So, we are not approving quickly or too
quickly a lot of these permits to rebuild. And at some point,
negating the opportunity for us to actually build the
improvements that the entire community wants, which could be
those underground utilities and wider streets, perhaps even
cultural corridors, those types of things.
So, I would just say we have to step back always and
remember what is the big picture vision the community has
presented and making sure we reflect that in the plans, as well
as permitting and other types of decisions that go through. And
I know that takes a lot of political and community will and
courage as well at the end of the day, but I think that will be
called upon us to be able to do that to make sure that what we
build for the future is in fact the vision that our people have
asked for. At the end of the day, keep them safe as well, in
Lahaina, a place where people can live so thank you for that.
And I would just like to ask one question of Keeaumoku.
This could have worked out completely differently, in terms of
a Federal response, to a disaster in one of our most sacred
historical and cultural places. I think you and I both know
that. There could have been time and place where we would not
all be sitting in this same room together talking about how we
have worked to get to this point. So, what made the difference
to you? How is this different?
You know, you have that historical institutional
knowledge--he is young, too, by the way, I am not saying he is
old--but how was this different from any other Federal response
that you have experienced or heard about or seen? And how was
it better so when we look forward, these are things--we have to
correct things definitely, we have to fix little tweaks as you
said, hiccups, but how do we institutionalize this because it
was in fact better?
Mr. Kapu. In my testimony I kind of mentioned, I said I sat
on many boards and commissions. So, having that advantage, so
looking at our town in a more different way. And I think that
has a lot to do with one of the problems that we face when we
talk about affordable homes and things like that, because we
have got to realize that, you know, in Hawaii, it is really
extremely different, especially when you talk about burial laws
and you talk about, you know, any kind of infrastructure,
especially during the first phase of the development they found
bones when they started doing a lot of the transmission lines,
so that is a big snag.
So, for us, as the kahani as many years that I have been
involved in, not just the review, been planning as well as
consulting with things such as the culture corridor and why
that is important is to make sure that we have people on the
ground to address the needs of our historic properties mainly.
And why that is important is because my County of Maui when
we originally started in the beginning, we never thought we
would take on a big responsibility such as being involved in
these recovery efforts. I went from a 501(c)(3) nonprofit
organization of only eight individuals in our organization to
62 cultural monitors and observers.
So, being provided the opportunity to step up and be a part
of a solution and not the problem, I have been able to hire a
lot of the family that lost homes, family that lost families.
And it kind of changed the atmosphere pertaining to how we
would dive into our community to make sure that our community,
although being agitated, to know that we have not just
Hawaiians, but also multigenerational families that we hired to
be a part of the monitoring and observations that was going
throughout the town. So, that was kind of great.
In the beginning, I thought, you know, first of all that OK
somebody putting me under the bus, but it was greater than
that. I think one of the greatest opportunities was sitting
with a lot of the contract people that came from afar, all the
different primes, working with Nima, Hi ema, different
contractors and all that and really understanding what the
importance of why we were there.
Our priority was to make sure that we focus on the
residential side to get our families back home, because in the
beginning my county in Maui was one of the hubs that was set up
to provide provisions for our community, food, water,
resources. And we did that periodically during a time when we
were selected to be a part of the recovery efforts, my County
of Maui's cultural monitoring program. Being involved with a
lot of the architectural design, people that was hired, the
contractors, the archeologists, stuff like that.
So, it gave us an opportunity to look at the layers of
different governances and how we can expedite it to make sure
that the priority was to get the residents home. That was the
first priority for us to make sure that we provide whatever
needs and necessities. We are kind of like the watchdogs out
there to make sure that the communities were protected, the
properties were protected.
Our whole responsibility to the kahani was we are the first
and last defense to protect the integrity of our town. Although
we were kind of a little bit on the incognito, but I think
sometimes you have got to take that stance today because how we
need to think expediting, how are we going to take care of our
communities.
So, mahalo for the question. I hope I answered it.
Ms. Tokuda. Mahalo.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
The distinguished gentleman, Mr. Case, is recognized for 5
minutes.
Mr. Case. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mayor, I want to follow up on Rep. Tokuda's questioning on
essentially what we are building back to. Because from the very
beginning, one of the big questions has been what is our target
at the end of the day, what is Lahaina that we envision and
that we want to bring back to life? And it may not be the same
exact Lahaina as before.
And actually, I am not sure it should be from a, you know,
fire prevention, wildfire prevention and that is before you get
to the community's concepts about how to bring back Lahaina as
a vibrant residential and business and cultural community.
And if you look at Mr. Fenton's charts that are in my head,
we have all been in the briefings, the sequence depends on a
decision soon or later about what that plan is for Lahaina. And
I say this to you as a very practical matter, because from a
Federal funding perspective, which is going to have to fund
this, if we are, as your delegation and other, successful in
opening up that next large tranche of Federal money in the
Community Development Block Grant Disaster Relief, the CDBG-DR
funding, and as you go to the private sector and others for
partnerships along those lines, you have got have a plan.
Otherwise, the money is not going to be--it is going to be
very hard for us to say to the Feds, hey, we have got the CDBG-
DR funding and we are ready to fund it, but by the way, we did
not know what we are funding for. And so, the real question
here is, I recall Mr. Fenton's charts, I am not pinning it on
him, because it was a question for everybody, but sometime
around this period there would be that decision.
I mean, not exactly right now, but soon, not later. And so,
I am just, you know, Lahaina was in many areas nonconforming
use. And so obviously, we now have the problems of the
nonconforming use and how to work through that. The conditions
of much of Lahaina facilitated or probably facilitated wildfire
exposure, density, spacing setbacks, street width, et cetera,
et cetera, wires above ground.
And so, I guess my question is where are you on that
decision? I know it is a complex decision. It is a decision,
you know, for the community, for the elected leaders that we
have always said from the beginning that is Maui's decision,
but when is that decision coming along? Because it is not too
far away that we are really going to need that decision to have
been made.
Mayor Bissen. I agree with you. Thank you, Congressman. The
long-term recovery project is due to be out, the draft, in
October. That is the result of many, many community meetings
that we have held and also neighborhood meetings that our
office of recovery staff has been pursuing.
One of the, I guess, mantras we have had is that this would
be community led and government supported. You know, keeping in
mind we are not planning a subdivision that is owned by the
county. These are all privately owned properties that we are
needing to get input from, some that will be impacted more than
others.
When we talk about Front Street and the business community,
also privately owned lands that are impacted by shoreline
rules, by SMA rules, by so many rules. So, I guess the
challenge is taking all of that into account and putting that
into the plan that I mentioned to you. We had--our deadline was
to be by the end of year and October is where we think the
draft will come out, the first draft.
Again, that is going to be a result of the meetings and
what has been told to us by the community in those meetings--it
is a compilation of those--of that feedback. So, that--it
mirrors what we have been receiving. Totally understanding
evacuation, health and safety factors, streets, you know, size
of the streets. We have a lot of data, a lot of information
that has also been factored into those decisions.
But you are right. It is a challenge to try to all be on
the same page, and it is probably going to start with a
recommendation based on, again, what we have heard, and I am
sure it will go through a few different drafts as we put it out
to the community.
Mr. Case. That is really good.
And so, the process, I assume, would be you would put the
draft together, and it would go out to the community for
comment, but sooner or later, it has to be converted into a
county ordinance, right?
Mr. Bissen. Sure.
Mr. Case. Possibly even amendments to state law for SMAs
and that kind of stuff. So, we have got some--you know, it is
not as if it is going to be done by the end of the year. It is
just that the plan itself is out there and hopefully agreed to
in concept.
But a question along those lines. So, you already have--I
think you said they have 157 permit applications, 40 or 50 in
process, 20 approved. Are they----
Mr. Bissen. Being built.
Mr. Case. Twenty being built.
Mr. Bissen. Twenty homes being built right now. There are
48 that are approved.
Mr. Case. Right.
And are those--I assume that those 20 are being built in
accordance with current code. So, like----
Mr. Bissen. Those are permitted.
Mr. Case. Right.
Mr. Bissen. Those are all permitted.
Mr. Case. So, they would have waived any nonconforming use
issues or they did not have any or--I mean, they are being
built according to some understanding of what Lahaina is going
to look like afterwards, right? Because the houses are being
rebuilt, as opposed to any modifications to, you know, lot
lines or anything like that.
Mr. Bissen. I think I understand your question. My answer
is yes.
Mr. Case. OK. All right, thanks.
Mr. Sessions. The gentleman yields back his time.
It does not take a lot to have to sit here and listen and
conjure up in your mind the undertaking that you are all
involved in. We heard stories of roads that were too narrow,
people that were trapped, exits that did not necessarily
represent an emergency, may have represented daily life.
I know there is an undertaking here, and my Federal partner
friends, as we have spoken, the Mayor was in some of these
because he and I spoke about the avenues that need to be
addressed.
But it is going to require a big undertaking. Are you going
to take someone's title to a land and make it bigger or change
it? What impact does that have on the next person? How do you
take and widen a street knowing that you run into people's
title? How do you come and say we want our infrastructure for
electricity or other means? How do you dig the hole for that
and come up with the agreement from the community? How do you
cross lines?
Our prayers are with you. We are not here to try and solve
those, but I think you have adequately told me what I think I
knew and understood as I watched this circumstance as it
evolved. I think you have properly addressed each other. I
think you have shown respect and dignity. I think our Federal
partners have attempted to do that.
But I will tell you the people on this side also are trying
to weigh and measure not just money and time and effort, but we
are trying to count on you to come up with some of those
answers so that we are able to correspondingly find out, as
your Members are, how do we work to make sure it can be
accomplished.
This is a serious undertaking. This is something that you
can hope and pray it never happens in your lifetime. But I
think that I am looking at a group of people that are up to it,
and I want to pass to each of you, not as we leave here but as
we listen and work through in our minds, this requires a lot of
people, not just you, to have cooler heads, to have thoughtful
ideas, and to work together.
And there is an old saying in Texas, when the going gets
rough, the rough get going. And they really work together, and
they really find common elements.
You may have heard me earlier, but the Mayor said to me,
you know, Congressman Sessions, when we get 10 people in a
room, you get 10 different ideas. I would say to you that I
would challenge you to find a way to look at this where you can
come up with that idea. And I would like to think that when you
have done the heavy lifting, that you can come back to your
delegation, and they will find common practice to be able to
approach us.
We did not come here to hear negative things. We came here
to hear things about reality, and the reality of what you have
presented us with and that we are respectfully coming back to
you to say is, we think there was some flexibility allowed by
your Federal partners. We think we have to make it work, and we
think in Congress, we have got to work together to make that
work.
I have admiration for you. I have respect. There are
communities in the district that I represent that lost
everything by a twister that came and went in 48 seconds. It
tore up lives, shifted ideas, and gave people a reason to be
thankful but also to fear. And I want you to know I think you
are up to it.
Is there any Member here that wishes to extend with a
second round? Mr. Case?
Mr. Case. No. Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. Ms. Porter?
Ms. Porter. No. Thank you.
Mr. Sessions. Yes, my adult is telling me hold on. And I
can handle that. So, we will ask Ms. Tokuda when she comes
back.
So, I have been doing this for a few minutes anyway, trying
to be nice, but I wanted to say what I said. So, I'm going to
say right now, pending her coming back--and we get this, she
needs to be given that opportunity--that I want to thank my
staff for the professional work that they have developed. I
want to thank my colleagues and their staff. I want to thank
them for the time.
And I also want to thank, as I did during the 6 years when
I was Chairman of the Rules Committee, for the stenographers
who have taken time to come and learn how to listen to
California, Hawaiian, and Texan again as they try and take
these words that are most genuinely and heartfelt.
If someone reads the words, they may be able to decipher
them as being different from normal hearings that we have.
But for those of you who are here, I have been told this is
on C-SPAN and will be available to people across the United
States of America and for you, because I am sure they will
replay it tonight, because I am sure my wife will see me.
But what I want to say to you is, is that if you fail to
watch the TV, you will fail to see the real names, work,
prayers, emotions, and resiliency that has been exhibited today
by this panel and the first panel. That I offer support and
prayer and believe that we have done the right thing.
But I want to say this: it is the people that sit behind
you that also have to feel like they got a fair shot at hearing
and understanding. And so, I would encourage my young Mayor and
each of you to make sure that you are clear when you speak,
that you enunciate those things that are still hopes and
dreams, and that your Member of Congress will make sure that
she transmits those to us, I think, appropriately, and we will
listen.
The gentlewoman is recognized for any closing statement she
would choose to make. The gentlewoman is recognized.
Ms. Tokuda. Thank you.
And first of all, again, Mr. Chair, to you, we have been
having these discussions literally for months, months and
months about when was the best time, the most appropriate time,
who to bring forward, what to see when you were here. I cannot
thank you enough for just the aloha you have shown our people.
And I think just from the two panels today, you have seen
that there has been so much work done, and there is so much
professional and personal commitment that each one of them
brings to really making sure that we not just help people heal
and recover but that we actually come back so much stronger,
and that we reflect the Lahaina and the Maui, country of Maui
as well, and the Hawaii that we want to be going forward into
the future.
And so, you know, as I said in the very beginning when I
started, and I will say it again, it has been a really fast and
long year for all of us. I think when we look around the room
at the faces, when we hear the names, when we hear the bright
spots and what we have been able to accomplish together, for
many of us it triggers back all of these memories of where we
were, what we were experiencing, both the highs and the lows.
And so, it has been quite a trying year for us, but to be
able to give us this opportunity in our home, in this space, to
be able to share where we have come from and, more importantly,
what we see for the future and how we can do better and be
stronger going forward, that is truly a blessing for us that
you would be willing to do this. Whereas, many times it is just
what you get in writing or it is whoever happens to be in D.C.
to be able to share that.
So, this is really meaningful for our community to have
this opportunity, and I know that there is plenty of folks in
this room right now who have been strong leaders for this
community, many watching online right now that have really
stood up.
And so, I wish you could meet all of them during your time
here because I tell you, they would tell you the stories, and
they would paint the picture of why the relationships have been
so meaningful. And they will be lifelong. Folks like Bob, you
cannot go anywhere. You will always, as I said, become anuhea
and part of the ohana.
And both of you as well. Thank you, Chair, Representative
Porter. Taking the time to be here shows your commitment, the
kuleana, you feel to making sure that whatever happens going
forward is done, is done right. So, I truly feel blessed to
have been a part of this and, again, just really want to thank
you and thank everyone here for making this possible.
Thank the teams, the folks that sit in the back sometime
but who made sure that all of this happened in a way that will
be respectful, as you said, and sensitive to the community. So,
thank you again.
Thank you to my colleague, Ed Case. While this is no longer
his district, it was his district. He always makes sure, and we
both do, that, you know, the needs of our state as a whole are
represented in the halls of Congress. So, thank you again.
Mahalo, everyone.
Mr. Sessions. The gentlewoman yields back her time.
Without objection, all Members that are here have 5
legislative days within to submit material and additional
written questions for the witnesses. I would expect that the
witnesses will respond back--I do not worry about that--but
accordingly, so that we may put this entire matter together.
Seeing no further business, without objection, the
Subcommittee stands adjourned.
Thank you very much.
[Whereupon, at 1:26 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
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