[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                        THE FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE 
                              GONE WILD: EXAMINING
                        OPERATION LONG TAIL LIBERATION

=======================================================================

                           OVERSIGHT HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT 
                            AND INVESTIGATIONS

                                OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                      Tuesday, September 10, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-144

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources
       
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        Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
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          Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov
          
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------           

                     COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                     BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                    DOUG LAMBORN, CO, Vice Chairman
                  RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Ranking Member

Doug Lamborn, CO			Grace F. Napolitano, CA
Robert J. Wittman, VA			Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan, 	
Tom McClintock, CA			    CNMI
Paul Gosar, AZ				Jared Huffman, CA
Garret Graves, LA			Ruben Gallego, AZ
Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS	        Joe Neguse, CO
Doug LaMalfa, CA			Mike Levin, CA
Daniel Webster, FL			Katie Porter, CA
Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR	        Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM
Russ Fulcher, ID			Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
Pete Stauber, MN			Mary Sattler Peltola, AK
John R. Curtis, UT			Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, NY
Tom Tiffany, WI				Kevin Mullin, CA
Jerry Carl, AL				Val T. Hoyle, OR
Matt Rosendale, MT			Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA
Lauren Boebert, CO			Seth Magaziner, RI
Cliff Bentz, OR				Nydia M. Velazquez, NY
Jen Kiggans, VA				Ed Case, HI
Jim Moylan, GU				Debbie Dingell, MI
Wesley P. Hunt, TX			Susie Lee, NV
Mike Collins, GA
Anna Paulina Luna, FL
John Duarte, CA
Harriet M. Hageman, WY

                    Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                      Tom Connally, Chief Counsel
                 Lora Snyder, Democratic Staff Director
                   http://naturalresources.house.gov
                                 ------                                

              SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS

                        PAUL GOSAR, AZ, Chairman
                      MIKE COLLINS, GA, Vice Chair
                MELANIE A. STANSBURY, NM, Ranking Member

Matt Rosendale, MT                   Ed Case, HI
Wesley P. Hunt, TX                   Ruben Gallego, AZ
Mike Collins, GA                     Susie Lee, NV
Anna Paulina Luna, FL                Raul M. Grijalva, AZ, ex officio
Bruce Westerman, AR, ex officio
                                 ------                                
                                CONTENTS

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

Hearing Memo.....................................................     v
Hearing held on Tuesday, September 10, 2024......................     1

Statement of Members:

    Gosar, Hon. Paul, a Representative in Congress from the State 
      of Arizona.................................................     1
    Stansbury, Hon. Melanie A., a Representative in Congress from 
      the State of New Mexico....................................     3

Statement of Witnesses:

    Panel I:

    Williams, Martha, Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, 
      Department of the Interior, Washington, DC.................     5
        Prepared statement of....................................     6
        Questions submitted for the record.......................     9

    Panel II:

    Pelletier, Paul, Attorney and Consultant, Pep Talk Advisors, 
      Fairfax, Virginia..........................................    17
        Prepared statement of....................................    19
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    22
    Clemons, Donna (Retired), D.V.M., DACLAM, Retired Research 
      Veterinarian, Trevor, Wisconsin............................    23
        Prepared statement of....................................    24
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    25
    Gillespie, Thomas, Professor & Chair, Department of 
      Environmental Sciences, Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia.    27
        Prepared statement of....................................    28
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    30
    Abee, Chris, DVM, Professor Emeritus, University of Texas MD 
      Anderson Cancer Center, Paige, Texas.......................    36
        Prepared statement of....................................    37
        Questions submitted for the record.......................    38

Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

    Submissions for the Record by Representative Gosar

        Transcript of recorded interview with Mr. Kry............    16

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To:        Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Republican 
        Members

From:     Subcommittee on Oversight & Investigations Staff; Michelle 
        Lane ([email protected]) and James Lundquist 
        (James.Lundquist @mail.house.gov), x6-8747

Date:     Tuesday, September 10, 2024

Subject:   Oversight Hearing on ``The Fish and Wildlife Service Gone 
        Wild: Examining Operation Long Tail Liberation''
________________________________________________________________________
        _______

    The Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations will hold an 
oversight hearing titled ``The Fish and Wildlife Service Gone Wild: 
Examining Operation Long Tail Liberation'' on Tuesday, September 10, 
2024, at 10:30 a.m. in 1334 Longworth House Office Building.

    Member offices are requested to notify Cross Thompson 
(Cross.Thompson@ mail.house.gov) by 4:30 p.m. on Monday, September 9, 
2024, if their members intend to participate in the hearing.

I. KEY MESSAGES

     The Fish and Wildlife Service (Service) conducted an 
            investigation in the Kingdom of Cambodia (Cambodia), known 
            as ``Operation Long Tail Liberation,'' to investigate 
            allegations of exportation to the U.S. of wild-caught long-
            tailed macaques falsely labeled as captive-bred. This 
            investigation spanned at least five years and did not 
            result in charges or convictions against any U.S. 
            individual or entity.

     In carrying out Operation Long Tail Liberation, the 
            Service paid a Chinese national, an informant, $225,000 of 
            government funds to gather information surreptitiously in 
            Cambodia without the knowledge of the Cambodian Government. 
            In addition, the Service aided the informant and his family 
            in finding housing and transportation to the U.S., assisted 
            in obtaining a visa, and provided job placement services.

     When the Service conducted Operation Long Tail Liberation, 
            they did not notify the local law enforcement agencies. The 
            Service ran a covert operation on their terms, on foreign 
            soil, with an improper investigative process.

     The U.S. currently leads the world in medical research. 
            However, without a strong U.S. industry to supply non-human 
            primates (NHPs) for medical research and testing, China 
            will dominate the trade of NHPs, lead the world in medical 
            research and testing, and consequently control the pipeline 
            for new medicines, vaccines, and treatments.

II. WITNESSES

Panel 1:

     Ms. Martha Williams, Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife 
            Service, Department of the Interior, Washington, DC

Panel 2:

     Mr. Paul Pelletier, Attorney and Consultant, PEP Talk 
            Advisors, Fairfax, VA

     Dr. Chris Abee, DVM, Professor Emeritus, University of 
            Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, Paige, TX

     Dr. Donna Clemons (retired), D.V.M., DACLAM, Retired 
            Research Veterinarian Trevor, WI

     Dr. Thomas Gillespie, Professor & Chair, Department of 
            Environmental Sciences, Emory University, Atlanta, GA 
            [Minority Witness]

III. BACKGROUND

    On June 5, 2024, the House Committee on Natural Resources 
(Committee) sent a letter to the Service to investigate actions taken 
during an investigation titled ``Operation Long Tail Liberation.'' \1\ 
The Service's Office of Law Enforcement conducted this five-year 
interagency investigation in Cambodia to investigate allegations of the 
acquisition and exportation to the U.S. of wild-caught long-tailed 
macaques falsely labeled as captive-bred.\2\
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    \1\ See Letter from Rep. Bruce Westerman, Chairman, H. Comm. on 
Natural Resources, and Rep. Paul A. Gosar, Chairman, Subcomm. on 
Oversight & Investigations, to Shannon Estenoz, Assistant Secretary for 
Fish and Wildlife and Parks, U.S. Department of the Interior, and 
Martha Williams, Director, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, U.S. 
Department of the Interior (June 5, 2024), https://
naturalresources.house.gov/uploadedfiles/2024.06.05_hnr_operation_long 
_tail_letter.pdf.
    \2\ Eight International Wildlife Traffickers Indicted, U.S. Fish 
and Wildlife Service (Nov. 21, 2022), https://www.fws.gov/story/2022-
11/eight-international-wildlife-traffickers-indicted.
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    The long-tailed macaque, a monkey native to Asia, is included in 
Appendix II of the Convention on International Trade in Endangered 
Species of Wild Flora and Fauna (CITES).\3\ Appendix II classifies the 
long-tailed macaque as a ``threatened'' species and not ``endangered.'' 
\4\ This species is in heavy demand by biomedical laboratories, 
including in the U.S., for ``combating human infectious disease 
outbreaks as they have been widely utilized in the development of human 
vaccines including AIDS/HIV, periodontitis and most recently SARS-CoV-
2.'' \5\
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    \3\ See https://cites.org/eng/taxonomy/term/1132.
    \4\ See https://cites.org/eng/node/130903.
    \5\ Regina Kate Warne et al., Is biomedical research demand driving 
a monkey business?, NATIONAL LIBRARY OF MEDICINE (Jun. 16, 2023), 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10288045/.
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    Special permits are required to import long-tailed macaques into 
the U.S. due to their listing in the CITES appendices.\6\ While legal 
trade primarily involves captive-bred long-tailed macaques, wild-caught 
macaques can be legally traded if captured with the local government's 
permission.\7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ See https://cites.org/eng/disc/how.php, How CITES Works.
    \7\ Id.
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    The long-tailed macaque is the most traded primate in the world for 
its uses in medical testing and research.\8\ The U.S. has observed a 
significant increase in demand for long-tailed macaques due to the 
sudden need for COVID-19 vaccine research, further contributing to a 
worldwide shortage of these animals. For example, in 2021 alone, over 
30,000 long-tailed macaques were imported to the U.S., with the cost of 
a single primate rising to as much as $50,000.\9\ Imports into the U.S. 
have recently declined due to import restrictions imposed by the 
Service on breeding colonies in Cambodia, and are further exacerbated 
by an embargo from the Chinese government.\10\ Medical research in the 
U.S. is presently at risk due to a shortage of long-tailed macaque for 
medical research purposes, which provides an advantage to the Chinese, 
who are looking to develop their medical research pipeline.\11\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ Lief Erikson Gamalo, Removal from the wild endangers the once 
widespread long-tailed macaque, WILEY ONLINE LIBRARY (Sep. 4, 2023), 
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajp.23547?af=R.
    \9\ Bringing a Nonhuman Primate into the United States, CENTER FOR 
DISEASE CONTROL, https://www.cdc.gov/importation/bringing-an-animal-
into-the-united-states/monkeys.html.
    \10\ David Grimm, Supply of monkeys for research is at a crisis 
point, U.S. government report concludes, SCIENCE ADVISOR (May 4, 2023), 
https://www.science.org/content/article/supply-monkeys-research-crisis-
point-u-s-government-report-concludes.
    \11\ Id.

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A. Fish and Wildlife Service Paid a Chinese National Informant

    In carrying out Operation Long Tail Liberation, the Service relied 
on a paid informant to surreptitiously gather information outside of 
the U.S., in Cambodia, without the knowledge of the Cambodian 
Government. For background purposes, undercover operations undertaken 
overseas are typically conducted with the full knowledge and consent of 
a government, particularly a friendly government, to avoid diplomatic 
issues. The Committee understands that in this case, the Cambodian 
Government had no knowledge of this investigation, which would be 
highly unusual.

    The paid informant, Veng Lim Yeung (Yeung), whom the Service 
nicknamed ``Francis,'' was a Chinese national working at a primate 
facility in Cambodia.\12\ Sarah Kite, an employee of Cruelty-Free 
International, a London environmental organization, introduced the 
Service to Yeung,\13\ who had originally contacted Cruelty-Free 
International in search of a salary.\14\ The information gathered by 
the paid informant would become the basis of indictments for illegally 
importing long-tailed macaques into the U.S.\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ Trial Transcript 3-15-24 PM Manera Direct pp 65 et seq, March 
15, 2024.
    \13\ Id. at 64-65.
    \14\ Trial Transcript 3-14-24 AM Yeung Direct pp 189-190, March 14, 
2024.
    \15\ See Case 1:22-cr-20340-KMW, United States v. Masphal Kry, 
Exhibit A to Defendant's Masphal Kry's Reply in Support of Motion to 
Conduct Depositions Pursuant to Fed. R. Crim. P.15 from the lawsuit for 
a concise description of these issues, which are also discussed in 
court transcripts.

    In court records, Yeung admitted to receiving almost $225,000 from 
the Service throughout the investigation.\16\ Additionally, as part of 
that investigation, Yeung admitted to installing spyware on a computer 
at his place of employment,\17\ providing access to a security camera 
at the gate of the facility to Service agents,\18\ and stealing a 
visitor logbook from his employer,\19\ among other actions. Following 
his work for the U.S. in Cambodia, the U.S. government paid Yeung and 
his family to relocate to the U.S.,\20\ and provided him with a bank 
account and housing assistance,\21\ and aided him in obtaining 
authorization to work in the U.S.\22\ All of this came at significant 
expense to the taxpayer and the Service's programs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ Id. at 193.
    \17\ Trial Transcript 3-15-24 AM Yeung Cross Examination p. 16, 
March 15, 2024.
    \18\ Id. at 13.
    \19\ Id. at 16-17.
    \20\ Trial Transcript 3-15-24 PM Manera Direct p 82, March 15, 
2024.
    \21\ Id. at 85-87.
    \22\ Id. at 87.

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B. Improper Investigation Uncovered in Court

    On November 16, 2022, the Department of Justice announced the 
conclusion of Operation Long Tail Liberation with an eight-count 
indictment charging ``two officials of the Cambodian Forestry 
Administration, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries; the 
owner/founder of a major primate supply organization and its general 
manager; and four of its employees with smuggling and conspiracy to 
violate the Lacey Act and the Endangered Species Act.'' \23\ Of those, 
only Masphal Kry, the Deputy Director of the Department of Wildlife and 
Biodiversity for the Cambodian Forestry Administration, stood trial in 
the U.S.\24\ However, Mr. Kry was acquitted of all charges after a two-
week trial, where court records revealed potential misconduct by the 
Service throughout their investigation.\25\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ U.S. Attorney's Office, Southern District of Florida, 
Cambodian Officials and Six Co-conspirators Indicted for Taking Part in 
Primate Smuggling Scheme, U.S., DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE (Nov. 16, 2022), 
https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdfl/pr/cambodian-officials-and-six-co-
conspirators-indicted-taking-part-primate-smuggling-0.
    \24\ Jay Weaver, Cambodian official acquitted of smuggling rare 
wild monkeys into South Florida, MIAMI HERALD (Mar. 25, 2024), https://
www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article 287073860.html.
    \25\ Daniel Gligich, U.S. wildlife officials paid a Chinese 
national $224k to spy on Cambodia. Their top target was just 
acquitted., THE SAN JOAQUIN VALLEY SUN (Apr. 1, 2024), https://
sjvsun.com/u-s/u-s-wildlife-officials-paid-a-chinese-national-224k-to-
spy-on-cambodia-their-top-target-was-just-acquitted/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Rather than utilizing standard processes available under CITES and 
international laws for their investigation, the Service conducted a 
covert operation in Cambodia without notifying the national government. 
In addition, it is unclear what policies guide the engagement and 
vetting of paid informants in these types of investigations. In this 
instance, it is clear from his own words and actions that a possible 
motivation for Yeung, the paid informant, was to seek payment from 
anyone who would hire him.\26\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \26\ Trial Transcript 3-14-24 AM Yeung Direct Examination pp 182-
184, March 14, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Court records also call into question the adequacy of the Service's 
background investigations before hiring Yeung as a paid informant. For 
example, during proceedings to acquire U.S. citizenship, Yeung signed 
an affidavit that excluded the fact that he had previously been married 
to another Chinese National.\27\ Yeung failed to provide this 
information to Service law enforcement agents, nor was this revealed in 
any background checks or clearances that the Service or other federal 
agencies performed during his vetting as a paid informant.\28\ Yeung 
also admitted in court to smuggling hundreds of wild-caught monkeys 
while working for the Service.\29\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \27\ Id. at 166-171.
    \28\ Trial Transcript 3-15-24 AM Yeung Cross Examination p. 35, 
March 15, 2024.
    \29\ Id. at 27.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There are also fundamental questions about whether the Service's 
investigation against officials in the Cambodian Government was legal 
and whether it followed Service policies and guidance. For example, 
during the investigation, Yeung admitted to stealing electronic records 
from his employer for the Service, installing a computer program on 
office computers to allow the Service to watch surveillance cameras at 
the primate facility, and purchasing recording devices and secret 
cameras to record meetings and events, all without authorization from 
his employer or the Cambodian Government.\30\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \30\ Trial Transcript 3-15-24 AM Yeung Cross Examination p. 13 et 
seq, March 15, 2024.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Service's compliance with basic recordkeeping and secure 
systems requirements has been called into question due to several 
actions. It is evident that they did not readily disclose 
communications between Service agents and the paid informant during the 
trial. Additionally, there is considerable uncertainty surrounding the 
disclosure of text messages and other communications between the 
Service and Yeung, as well as the destruction of certain communication 
records during the investigation.
    Furthermore, information that emerged during subsequent court 
proceedings has raised concerns about the use of a Google Drive set up 
by Yeung for sharing information obtained during the investigation with 
Service agents.

C. Impact on Domestic Businesses and Medical Research

    At the conclusion of the trial, two U.S. citizens from private U.S. 
companies involved in the domestic industry for providing long-tailed 
macaques for medical testing remain ``unindicted co-conspirators'' 
within the indictment.\31\ This has created a serious unresolved legal 
situation for these individuals and their companies--as they remain 
``unindicted co-conspirators,'' they will not have the opportunity to 
defend themselves or their companies in court.\32\ As a result, U.S. 
companies have experienced reputational repercussions from Operation 
Long Tail Liberation, despite the investigation yielding zero 
convictions or charges for U.S. citizens or companies.\33\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \31\ Paul Pelletier, Briefing memo--Oversight Subcommittee, PEP 
TALK ADVISORS (July 7, 2024), On file with Committee.
    \32\ Id.
    \33\ Christopher Cann, Small town residents unite to fight a common 
enemy: A huge monkey farm, USA Today (Jan. 28, 2024), https://
www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/01/28/monkey-farm-breeding-
medical-science-research/72339272007/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The U.S. has long sought to establish domestic sources for the 
long-tailed macaque in order to reduce dependence on imports from 
countries such as China.\34\ At the moment, the U.S. and most other 
countries must rely on ``China's export to test for new treatments for 
cardiovascular diseases, neurological disorder and cancers.'' \35\ 
However, public campaigns by People for the Ethical Treatment of 
Animals (PETA), Cruelty-Free International, and other left-wing 
advocacy groups, coupled with the actions of the Service to restrict 
the trade of the long-tailed macaque, are crippling the domestic 
industry.\36\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \34\ Id.
    \35\ Steve Boggan, China's plan for medical domination: If there's 
another pandemic, the West could be dependent on Beijing for vaccine 
development, UNHERD (Feb. 8, 2021), https://www.nabr.org/about-nabr/
news/implications-nhp-shortages-us-biomedical-research.
    \36\ Pelletier, supra note 32.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Now, U.S. companies are being penalized through the denial of CITES 
permits for the import of captive-bred NHPs, including the long-tailed 
macaque, that were born in the U.S., and those related to Cambodia.\37\ 
This is reportedly due to the Service questioning the ``legal 
acquisition'' of the parental stock of NHPs from Cambodia, even if 
legally imported into the U.S. and previously authorized by the 
Service.\38\ The blanket denial of permits for captive-bred NHPs within 
the U.S. that have a connection to Cambodia has seriously affected the 
nascent domestic industry for NHPs, and ``business and research has 
been substantially impacted.'' \39\ The ability to obtain permits to 
export the blood samples and tissue samples of NHPs, a common practice 
in the industry, has also been restricted.\40\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \37\ Id.
    \38\ Id.
    \39\ Id.
    \40\ Id.

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D. PETA's Close Relationship with the Fish and Wildlife Service

    Radical, left-wing advocacy groups, particularly PETA, have 
aggressively lobbied the Biden-Harris administration for the total halt 
on not only the import of NHPs, particularly the long-tailed macaque, 
but also the use of NHPs for medical testing and research.\41\ For 
years, PETA has waged a public campaign to pressure the U.S. government 
to classify the long-tailed macaque as endangered under the Endangered 
Species Act and ultimately eliminate imports of the long-tailed 
macaque, despite the vast repercussions for medical research in the 
U.S.\42\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \41\ Updates: Campaign to Shut Down the Violent Monkey-Importation 
Industry, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS, https://
www.peta.org/features/campaign-updates-monkey-importation/.
    \42\ Id.

    PETA has targeted the Service with their advocacy efforts, and has 
strongly supported Operation Long Tail Liberation,\43\ as the 
investigation became a popular fundraising tool for PETA over the last 
several years.\44\ This effort is ongoing--after the conclusion of the 
trial resulting from Operation Long Tail Liberation, PETA initiated a 
petition urging the Service to: \45\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \43\ Id.
    \44\ Id.
    \45\ Forests Emptied to Fill Laboratories With Endangered Monkeys--
Act Now to Stop This!, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS, 
https://support.peta.org/page/65925/action/1?locale=en-US.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
     End all monkey imports from Asia immediately.

     Speed up its investigation into U.S. companies that profit 
            from illegally captured monkeys.

     Indict the unnamed U.S. coconspirators in the just-
            concluded case.\46\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \46\ Id.

    Due to the conduct of the Service throughout Operation Long Tail 
Liberation, and the intense pressure campaign by radical left-wing 
groups to halt all imports of NHPs, the Committee is concerned 
regarding the Service's perceived close relationships with PETA and 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cruelty-Free International.

    As previously stated, Ms. Kite from Cruelty-Free International 
first introduced the Service to Yeung for Operation Long Tail 
Liberation.\47\ The information Yeung gathered formed the unstable 
foundation for the indictments following Operation Long Tail 
Liberation.\48\ The Committee has sought information on the discussions 
that took place between these organizations and the Service that 
resulted in the hiring of Yeung as an informant, and whether any 
information relating to this matter was improperly shared with these 
organizations.\49\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \47\ Trial Transcript 3-15-24 PM Manera Direct pp 64-65 et seq, 
March 15, 2024.
    \48\ See Case 1:22-cr-20340-KMW, United States v. Masphal Kry, 
Exhibit A to Defendant's Masphal Kry's Reply in Support of Motion to 
Conduct Depositions Pursuant to Fed. R. Crim. P.15 from the lawsuit for 
a concise description of these issues, which are also discussed in 
court transcripts.
    \49\ See, e.g., Trial Transcript 3-13-24 AM p. 5.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Committee has received information that PETA improperly 
obtained a document related to the trial of Mr. Kry.\50\ In the Mr. Kry 
removal proceeding, Service Agent Dorothy Manera attached a copy of the 
indictment to her affidavit.\51\ However, PETA released a press release 
on November 16, 2022, the same day the indictment was unsealed, with an 
identical copy of this same indictment.\52\ The Committee finds this 
concerning, as that copy of the indictment was not yet available to the 
general public at the time of the PETA press release.\53\ It remains 
unclear how PETA could have obtained that copy of the indictment before 
it was available to the general public.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \50\ Paul Pelletier, Follow-up-Longtail Discussion (July 4, 2024). 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Indictments. On file with Committee.
    \51\ AFFIDAVIT IN SUPPORT OF REMOVAL TO THE SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF 
FLORIDA in the United States District Court Eastern District of New 
York. United States of America v. Masphal Kry, No. 22-mj-01230. On file 
with Committee.
    \52\ Tasgola Bruner, PETA Statement: Feds Indict International 
Monkey Smugglers Who Supply U.S. Labs, PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT 
OF ANIMALS (Nov. 16, 2022), https://www.peta.org/media/news-releases/
peta-statement-feds-indict-international-monkey-smugglers-who-supply-u-
s-labs/.
    \53\ Longtail Discussion, supra note 50.

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IV. CONCLUSION

    The conclusion of Operation Long Tail Liberation revealed serious 
concerns with how the Service carried out their investigation, 
primarily actions related to their Chinese paid informant. The Service 
failed to follow standard processes available under CITES and 
international laws for their investigation, rather choosing to conduct 
a covert operation without informing the Cambodian Government. 
Congressional oversight is required to explain the shortcomings of this 
investigation, resolve outstanding concerns, and examine the close 
relationship of PETA and other left-wing organizations with the 
Service.
                                     


 
     OVERSIGHT HEARING ON THE FISH AND WILDLIFE SERVICE GONE WILD:
                        EXAMINING OPERATION LONG
                            TAIL LIBERATION

                              ----------                              


                      Tuesday, September 10, 2024

                     U.S. House of Representatives

              Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations

                     Committee on Natural Resources

                             Washington, DC

                              ----------                              

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:35 a.m. in 
Room 1334, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Paul Gosar 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Gosar, Collins; and Stansbury.
    Also present: Representative Wittman.

    Dr. Gosar. The Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations 
will come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    The Subcommittee is meeting today to hear the testimony on 
the Fish and Wildlife Service gone wild, examining Operation 
Long Tail Liberation.
    Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements are 
limited to the Chairman and the Ranking Member. I, therefore, 
ask unanimous consent that all other Members' statements be 
made part of the hearing record if they are submitted in 
accordance with Committee Rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
    With non-Subcommittee members participating, I ask 
unanimous consent that the following Members be allowed to sit 
and participate in today's hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I think we have Mr. Wittman from Virginia.
    I now recognize myself for my opening statement.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. PAUL GOSAR, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

    Dr. Gosar. Good morning, everyone. I would like to take a 
moment to welcome our witnesses.
    Thank you for coming before this Committee today to discuss 
the Fish and Wildlife Service gone wild, examining Operation 
Long Tail Liberation.
    First, I would like to acknowledge that the men and women 
who serve us as special agents for the Fish and Wildlife 
Services generally are and do incredible work for our nation, 
and they have my great appreciation. However, I believe that 
leadership has failed to support them.
    Today, the Committee will examine the Fish and Wildlife 
Service's failed covert investigation in the Kingdom of 
Cambodia, Operation Long Tail Liberation, which attempted to 
expose the alleged illegal exploitation of wild caught long-
tailed macaques, falsely labeled as ``captive bred,'' from 
Cambodia to the United States.
    The long-tailed macaque is the most traded non-human 
primate in the world because they are necessary for medical 
research, including the development of drugs, vaccines, 
biomedical research, and treatments. The United States is 
considered the world leader in medical testing and research. As 
demand has grown for the long-tailed macaques, spurred by the 
COVID-19 pandemic, the United States sought to establish a 
domestic industry for supplying non-human primates for medical 
testing and research purposes. In response, radical animal 
rights groups such as PETA and the Cruelty Free International 
have aggressively lobbied the Fish and Wildlife Service to 
classify the long-tailed macaque as endangered, and therefore 
halt all imports to the United States.
    Meanwhile, China is taking steps to dominate the world 
trade of non-human primates. If they accomplish this, China 
will lead the world on medical research and testing, and 
subsequently control the pipeline for any new medicines, 
vaccines, and treatments.
    I want to be clear here. We are all talking about potential 
cures for cancer, Alzheimer's, things of that nature, not just 
the COVID vaccine.
    From what the Committee has observed throughout our 
investigation, poor leadership at the Fish and Wildlife 
Service, a lack of establishment guidance for investigations, 
and influence from radical non-profits led to the deeply flawed 
Operation Long Tail Liberation. The investigation ended in an 
embarrassment. After 5 years, the operation resulted in an 
eight-count indictment, but only one person stood trial in the 
United States, a Cambodian official, for a brief, 2-week trial 
that resulted in an acquittal of all charges.
    Additionally, two American citizens from domestic companies 
involved in the trade of non-human primates are listed in the 
indictment as unindicted co-conspirators. These individuals 
were never provided the opportunity to clear their name. The 
unresolved legal situation continues to harm their businesses 
and the reputation of the domestic industry for non-human 
primates.
    However, the Committee is most concerned with the 
methodology used for this ill-fated operation. To start, the 
Fish and Wildlife Service has conducted Operation Long Tail 
Liberation without notifying the Cambodian Government. This 
violates policy for international investigations and places 
undercover agents in compromising positions while operating in 
a foreign country. The agency also reportedly failed to operate 
in accordance with the Department of Justice for this 
investigation, instead choosing to run this covert operation on 
their own terms.
    Perhaps most alarming, the Fish and Wildlife Service 
introduced national security vulnerabilities to their 
investigation when they contracted a Chinese national to gather 
information on behalf of the United States. The Service paid 
this informant approximately $225,000 and generously moved him 
and his family to the United States, all at the expense of the 
American taxpayer. Cruelty Free International, a radical animal 
rights group, first introduced the Services to the Chinese 
national, who was employed at a primate facility in Cambodia at 
the time.
    The American people deserve an explanation for these and 
other mistakes made throughout Operation Long Tail Liberation, 
and for the Fish and Wildlife Service's close relationship with 
PETA and Cruelty Free International.
    The Committee has received information that PETA, on two 
separate occasions, allegedly obtained documents and images 
from the indictment and the trial that had not yet been 
released to the public, meaning someone leaked the information 
to PETA. PETA and Cruelty Free International have benefited 
from the publicity of the Operation Long Tail Liberation 
through their substantial fundraising efforts, focused on 
declassifying the long-tailed macaque as endangered, and banned 
all imports of non-human primates.
    Clearly, the Department of the Interior is a mess under 
President Biden and Harris' administration. There is no 
accountability at any level for their failures. While I 
recognize this investigation may have begun under the last 
administration, it was allowed to spiral out of control under 
this Administration and now there are real consequences. We 
cannot risk handing over our medical research and ultimately 
our drug and vaccine pipeline to China for the sake of faulty 
investigation.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member for her opening 
statement.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. MELANIE A. STANSBURY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW MEXICO

    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Chairman Gosar, and thank you to 
our witnesses for being here today.
    I just want to start by saying this is an extremely 
difficult topic. And I think, obviously, we are going to hear a 
lot about the case today. But for me personally, listening to 
the treatment and illegal trafficking of primates is a very 
difficult topic.
    As was said, long-tailed macaques are the most traded 
primate in the world. In the United States, they are used to 
test medicine and vaccines before they are used for humans. And 
in theory, these monkeys are bred in captivity specifically for 
that research. They have to be captive bred because wild 
macaques often carry diseases that can skew the results of a 
study to determine if a drug will cause health problems in 
people. And wild populations are increasingly endangered, and 
poaching is a huge threat.
    But let me be clear about my personal position on this 
issue. I believe that we should not be doing human testing on 
primates at all, and need further alternatives to address our 
medical and other needs.
    But sadly, many of these primates are continuing to be 
caught in the wild, poached from their natural habitats, and 
shipped to the United States under falsified permits. Because 
the true source of these primates has been altered, this 
process has been called ``monkey laundering.''
    In 2017, Fish and Wildlife Service agents began an 
investigation into a major monkey laundering ring. They looked 
into a Chinese company called Vanny Holdings with these 
breeding facilities in Cambodia that were allegedly exporting 
large numbers of wild macaques into the United States, these 
are not captive bred, under falsified permits required under 
the international treaty which regulates these, which is known 
as CITES. Vanny was using corrupt officials in high places in 
Cambodia to help falsify those permits, and one of those 
officials was arrested when he came through the United States.
    In the end, this individual was acquitted, not because 
there was not a crime, but because they didn't have sufficient 
evidence to show the conspiracy. But there is little dispute 
that the monkey laundering scheme was happening, thanks to the 
meticulous investigations conducted by Fish and Wildlife 
agents, which are our Federal law enforcement who conduct these 
investigations.
    It is apparently a well-known industry secret in recent 
years the price of a single macaque has risen to as much as 
$60,000 per animal. To maintain the supply of profitable 
monkeys, this multi-billion-dollar animal importation and 
research industry has invested a lot of time and money into 
lobbying, apparently into Congress now, and at least one of the 
Majority's witnesses reflects that investment.
    There are outstanding indictments for several other 
individuals affiliated with this monkey laundering ring, and 
the investigation is continuing to be ongoing. And we are still 
here, in the Minority, trying to understand why exactly this 
hearing was called in the middle of a Federal law enforcement 
investigation and trial.
    Let's be clear. The agents of the Fish and Wildlife Service 
did their jobs, and they did them correctly. They followed 
investigative procedures and standards. They received the 
appropriate approvals and revealed serious flaws in the supply 
chain of these monkeys. And, in fact, the investigation was 
initially authorized under the Trump administration, and 
continued under the current Administration. Authorization was 
given for the informant and compensation was given, and the 
Trump administration renewed this investigation four times. 
Why? Because it is a very serious issue. In transnational 
organized crime, wildlife trafficking are all wrapped up 
together, and this is why we do this kind of Federal law 
enforcement.
    And the proceeds from this organized wildlife trafficking 
often funds terrorism abroad. So, the attacks that we are about 
to hear in this hearing today are questionable, I have to say, 
because we know that our Federal law enforcement did what they 
were asked to do, and that this is an ongoing investigation.
    But I want to be clear. We need alternatives. We cannot 
continue to put our country and our communities at risk, and 
also these animals. And I believe it is inhumane.
    I also want to close by highlighting an urgent and 
unresolved problem related to this case. In New Mexico, we have 
more than two dozen chimpanzees who are sitting in limbo in a 
primate facility that we have been trying to get released. And 
similarly, Charles River Laboratories is holding 1,000 
Cambodian macaques of mixed and uncertain origins because of 
this case. Those animals could be killed, they could be sent to 
another country, or they could be put in an animal sanctuary. 
And it is our hope that the importers who made a lot of money 
on this monkey laundering scheme will foot the bill to make 
sure that those animals are safely transported and put in the 
care of a sanctuary.
    With that, I yield back.

    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentlewoman for her comments. I will 
now introduce the witnesses to our first panel: Ms. Martha 
Williams, Director of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, U.S. 
Department of the Interior, Washington, DC.
    Let me remind the witness that under Committee Rules, you 
must limit your oral statement to 5 minutes, but your whole 
testimony will be submitted to the record.
    I think you can see the green, red, and yellow lights. You 
will have to focus right up here if you are talking. When you 
see the green, you are ready to go. When you are yellow, start 
closing up. And red, shut it down.
    With that, I now recognize Ms. Williams for her 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF MARTHA WILLIAMS, DIRECTOR, U.S. FISH AND WILDLIFE 
      SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, WASHINGTON, DC

    Ms. Williams. Good morning, Chairman Gosar, Ranking Member 
Stansbury, and members of the Subcommittee. I appreciate the 
opportunity to testify before you today to discuss just how 
important it is for our nation's well-being and defense that we 
work together to combat wildlife crime.
    This is a bipartisan issue. Since the early 1900s, Congress 
has passed laws to facilitate legal trade in wildlife and 
prevent the illegal trade, including the Lacey Act, CITES, and 
the Endangered Species Act.
    The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, through our Office of 
Law Enforcement, is the lead Federal agency for protecting 
natural resources and effective enforcement of these criminal 
and civil laws. Wildlife trafficking is a multi-billion dollar 
illicit industry carried out by highly organized and dangerous 
transnational criminal syndicates that are increasingly 
diversifying into wildlife trafficking as an avenue for profit. 
Along with other criminal activities, including drugs, weapons, 
and human trafficking, money laundering, and terrorism, these 
organizations pose a serious threat to our national security, 
economic prosperity, global health, wildlife conservation, and 
community stability.
    The work of our law enforcement office is critically 
important to disrupting wildlife trafficking. In 2023, our 
special agents were involved in over 9,000 wildlife crime 
investigations that resulted in nearly $3 million in fines and 
penalties, over 60 years of prison time, and 222 years of 
probation. Our work levels the playing field for law-abiding 
businesses, brings criminals to justice, and protects the 
national security interests of the United States.
    Because many of our investigations into wildlife 
trafficking involve convergence with other crimes committed by 
criminal syndicates, our special agents work closely with the 
Department of the Defense, DEA, Homeland Security, and more. 
All of our Service's investigations are carefully coordinated 
with Interior solicitors and the Department of Justice and 
Assistant U.S. Attorneys. We also coordinate with the State 
Department on any international investigation.
    Combating wildlife trafficking and transnational criminal 
syndicates is not a partisan issue. There has been bipartisan 
support for this work across parties and across 
administrations. President Obama established the Task Force on 
Wildlife Trafficking. President Trump issued Executive Order 
13773 on countering transnational criminal organizations, 
including those involved in wildlife trafficking. President 
Biden has continued these efforts, and Congress has supported 
this work through passage of the bipartisan End Wildlife 
Trafficking Act.
    The investigation that is the subject of today's hearing is 
also non-partisan. The last administration initiated the 
investigation that we have continued under this Administration. 
This investigation targeted individuals who allegedly conspired 
to poach macaques from the wild, launder them through Chinese-
owned captive breeding facilities in Cambodia, and export them 
to the United States with fraudulent CITES permits issued by 
corrupt officials within the Cambodian Government.
    This is an active, ongoing investigation. While one of the 
individuals has been tried, there are seven additional indicted 
individuals with outstanding arrest warrants. To avoid 
compromising any criminal proceedings, there are law 
enforcement and legal matters that I will not be able to 
comment on today.
    This alleged illegal activity undercut companies operating 
legally, led to corruption with a foreign government, and put 
imperiled species at further risk, and potentially compromised 
the integrity of the biomedical research in this country by 
introducing wild macaques with high zoonotic disease risk into 
the supply chain, all for money.
    I want to emphasize the Service understands the importance 
of lifesaving biomedical research. There is not and never has 
been a ban on the import of long tailed macaques into the 
United States. Legal imports of CITES-listed species are 
commonplace.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today to shed 
light on our nation's interest in combating illegal wildlife 
crime through investigations such as the one that is the 
subject of today's hearing. I would be pleased to answer any 
questions that you may have.

    [The prepared statement of Ms. Williams follows:]
Prepared Statement of Martha Williams, Director, United States Fish and 
              Wildlife Service, Department of the Interior

    Good morning, Chairman Gosar, Ranking Member Stansbury, and Members 
of the Subcommittee. I am Martha Williams, Director of the U.S. Fish 
and Wildlife Service (Service) within the Department of the Interior 
(Department). I appreciate the opportunity to testify before you today 
regarding the Service's efforts to carry out its conservation mission 
by enforcing wildlife laws, regulating wildlife trade, and 
investigating wildlife crimes through the Service's Office of Law 
Enforcement (OLE).
    The mission of the Service is working with others to conserve, 
protect, and enhance fish, wildlife, and plants and their habitats for 
the continuing benefit of the American people. The Service's 
responsibilities include conserving migratory birds, preventing 
wildlife disease, combating invasive species, protecting and recovering 
threatened and endangered species, and promoting global wildlife 
conservation--all of which rely upon enforcement of relevant criminal 
and civil laws, such as the Endangered Species Act (ESA), Migratory 
Bird Treaty Act, and Lacey Act. The Service is the lead federal agency 
for protecting wildlife and plant resources through the effective 
enforcement of federal laws, regulations, and international treaties.
    Wildlife trafficking was once predominantly a crime of opportunity 
committed by individuals or small groups. Today, wildlife trafficking 
is largely carried out by international criminal organizations that are 
well-structured, highly organized, and capable of illegally moving 
large commercial volumes of wildlife and wildlife products and 
laundering its proceeds. These transnational criminal organizations 
engage in other illicit activities threatening national security, 
including money laundering, narcotics trafficking, weapons trafficking, 
and human smuggling. What was once a local or regional problem has 
become a global crisis, as increasingly sophisticated and violent 
criminal organizations have branched into wildlife trafficking. This 
multi-billion-dollar illegal trade is fueled by consumer demand and 
enabled by corruption, limited legal authorities and law enforcement 
capabilities, a lack of political will to prioritize countermeasures, 
and often weak institutions abroad.
    Wildlife trafficking is a serious threat to conservation, national 
security, economic prosperity, global health, and community stability. 
The Administration is committed to continuing efforts to address it 
through a whole of government approach coordinated by the Presidential 
Task Force on Wildlife Trafficking (Task Force). As part of the Task 
Force, which the Department co-chairs along with the Departments of 
State and Justice, the Service works alongside 16 other agencies to 
strengthen enforcement, reduce demand, and build international 
cooperation to end wildlife trafficking.
    Wildlife trafficking causes significant injury to wildlife 
populations in the United States and abroad. For example, in the Gulf 
of California off of Mexico, organized criminal groups have continued 
to harvest the large marine fish totoaba despite it being listed under 
the ESA and under Appendix I of the Convention on International Trade 
in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora (CITES). Totoaba is 
valuable for its swim bladder, with a single pound of swim bladder 
estimated at between $8,000-$12,500. Many of these illegally harvested 
swim bladders are trafficked from Mexico through the United States to 
the People's Republic of China for use as a delicacy for consumption 
and in traditional medicine. Unfortunately, the illegal fishery has 
drastic effects beyond this species; nets set to catch totoaba also 
take a species of porpoise called the vaquita. One of the world's most 
endangered marine mammals, the vaquita has been reduced to an estimated 
population of fewer than 15 individuals, with only 6-8 individuals 
observed in the recent 2024 survey. Both totoaba and vaquita are 
considered to be facing extremely high risk of extinction. There are 
numerous other examples of species that have had their populations 
drastically impacted as the result of illicit trafficking.
    The Service's OLE, working with other federal, state, Tribal, and 
international law enforcement partners, plays a key role in disrupting 
and shutting down this lucrative and harmful illegal business. OLE's 
investigative and enforcement activities are led by roughly 220 special 
agents and 103 wildlife inspectors stationed domestically and around 
the globe. In the United States, OLE was responsible for inspecting 
175,223 declared shipments, valued at over $4.6 billion in legal 
commerce, at 17 ports of entry in 2023. In addition, OLE personnel are 
stationed as attaches at 10 U.S. embassies and stations in countries 
that drive or enable the illegal wildlife trade. In Fiscal Year 2023, 
the work of OLE personnel contributed to over 9,600 wildlife crime 
investigations and court-ordered restitution of $1.9 million in fines, 
$1 million in civil penalties, 64 years in prison, and 222 years of 
probation.
    The Service's OLE works with partners on cases that not only 
protect domestic resources and the economy, but also disrupt 
transnational criminal organizations that threaten national security. 
Through an OLE-led five-year investigation coordinated with the Drug 
Enforcement Administration and Department of Justice (DOJ) and Homeland 
Security Investigations (HSI), Operation Apex resulted in the seizure 
of six tons of shark fins and $200,000 worth of endangered totoaba fish 
bladders, while also uncovering over $4 million in cash, narcotics, and 
firearms. All 12 defendants pleaded guilty and are serving a combined 
250 months of incarceration and 60 months of probation. In another 
example, in 2023, a Malaysian national was convicted of conspiring with 
criminal associates in Laos, Vietnam, and China to launder money from 
the illicit sale of rhino horns and pangolin scales. This conviction 
resulted from a multi-year, international investigation carried out by 
OLE and resulted in the first time the U.S. Treasury Department 
sanctioned foreign co-conspirators for the illegal poaching of 
rhinoceros. During these investigations and many others, the Service, 
like many federal law enforcement agencies, used a number of common law 
enforcement tools including undercover operations, the use of 
informants, controlled purchases of evidence and information, and other 
evidence collection methodologies. The Service's use of these tools 
comports with all appropriate legal and statutory requirements as well 
as Service and Department policies.
    The Service's close coordination with DOJ is critical, as DOJ has 
responsibility for federal criminal prosecutions. OLE investigations 
are a collaborative effort in which our special agents work closely 
with Assistant U.S. Attorneys (AUSAs). To initiate high-profile or 
sensitive investigations, agents must first present allegations of 
criminal activity to DOJ, the Department's Office of the Solicitor, and 
Service managers, who may either approve or deny the investigation. 
Special agents and AUSAs work closely throughout every aspect of 
investigations, and investigative methods such as the use of 
informants, the issuance of grand jury subpoenas, and applications for 
search and arrest warrants are subject to DOJ review and approval. For 
any investigative activities that take place in foreign countries, the 
Service coordinates with DOJ, including Attorney-Advisors from the DOJ 
Environmental Crimes Section, Department of State, and other agencies.
    Today's hearing is focused on one of the Service's recent 
investigations, titled ``Operation Long-Tailed Liberation.'' This is an 
active law enforcement matter. The operation was approved in May 2018 
in support of President Trump's Executive Order (EO) 13773, ``Enforcing 
Federal Law with Respect to Transnational Criminal Organizations and 
Preventing International Trafficking.'' This EO directed federal 
agencies to strengthen enforcement of federal law to thwart 
transnational criminal organizations that presented a threat to public 
safety and national security through the ``illegal smuggling and 
trafficking of humans, drugs or other substances, wildlife, and 
weapons.'' EO 13773 also directed federal law enforcement agencies, 
such as the Service, to ``give a high priority and devote sufficient 
resources'' to these types of investigations while enhancing 
cooperation with foreign counterparts through the sharing of 
intelligence and law enforcement information.
    In 2020, the People's Republic of China instituted policies that 
restricted the export of wildlife, including non-human primates, which 
are traded for biomedical research. The restrictions were implemented 
following the COVID-19 pandemic and have significantly reduced the 
nation's supply of non-human primates. As a result, other countries, 
including Cambodia, have increased their exports to meet the ongoing 
demand for live non-human primates in the United States. From 2018 to 
2022, 155,772 live non-human primates were cleared by the Service and 
imported into the United States for biomedical research. Of that total, 
66,011 live non-human primates were cleared by the Service and imported 
into the United States from Cambodia, or 42.4% of the total number 
imported.
    Long-tailed macaques, also known as crab-eating macaques, are one 
of the most common non-human primate species imported from Cambodia for 
biomedical research. However, long-tailed macaques are also protected 
under CITES and require permits in order to be imported into the United 
States. The Service's investigation sought to implement EO 13773 and 
CITES by increasing OLE's efforts to address organizations that were 
allegedly involved in the illegal smuggling and trafficking of 
wildlife, particularly long-tail macaques, from foreign countries to 
meet demand in the United States.
    In November 2022, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern 
District of Florida announced a superseding indictment against eight 
individuals charged with smuggling and conspiracy to violate the Lacey 
Act and the ESA. The defendants facing these felony charges include the 
owner and founder of a major primate supply organization, its general 
manager and four employees, and two officials of the Cambodian Forestry 
Administration, Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry, and Fisheries 
(MAFF). The indictment reflects the Operation Long-Tailed Liberation 
investigation and alleges that these individuals conspired to acquire 
wild-caught macaques and launder them through Cambodian entities for 
export to the United States and elsewhere, falsely labelled as bred in 
captivity. As alleged in the indictment, in order to make up for a 
shortage of suitable monkeys at breeding facilities in Cambodia, the 
co-conspirators enlisted the assistance of the CITES authority in 
Cambodia and the MAFF to deliver wild-caught macaques illegally taken 
from multiple sources, including national parks and protected areas in 
Cambodia. The indictment alleges that these illegally taken wild 
macaques were delivered to breeding facilities and in some cases they 
were subsequently exported under falsified CITES export permits.
    Since the November 2022 indictment, the Service has met with 
numerous federal agency partners regarding the alleged trafficking of 
long-tailed macaques and falsification of CITES documents. We continue 
to discuss shipments and permits with importers on a case-by-case basis 
and are assessing ways to improve the government's ability to verify 
parentage and captive-bred status of non-human primates. There is not, 
and has never been, a national ban on non-human primate imports into 
the United States. Any imports of CITES-listed species, including long-
tailed macaques, into the United States must comply with all applicable 
federal laws and regulations, including those found at 50 CFR Part 23. 
Importers are responsible for proving the validity of their permits, 
which includes the source of the species, in order for OLE to clear the 
import into the country. The Service will continue to work with other 
federal agencies, foreign governments, industry, and others to ensure 
the sustainable and legal trade of wildlife, including long-tailed 
macaques.
    The Service is committed to combatting the illegal wildlife trade. 
We appreciate the opportunity to testify before the Subcommittee. We 
welcome the opportunity to provide additional information and answer 
questions to the best of our ability given that this remains an active 
investigation.

                                 ______
                                 

 Questions Submitted for the Record to Ms. Martha Williams, Director, 
                     U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service

Ms. Williams did not submit responses to the Committee by the 
appropriate deadline for inclusion in the printed record.

              Questions Submitted by Representative Gosar

    Question 1. Are there procedures at the service or internal at DOI 
which allow your agency to conduct a foreign operation without the 
consent of that nation's government?

    Question 2. Did the Service notify the Department of Justice's 
Office of International Affairs that it was conducting this unusual and 
potentially illegal operation?

    Question 3. Who exactly was notified at the Department of the 
Interior about Operation Long Tail Liberation in Cambodia?

    Question 4. Does the Fish and Wildlife Service have written 
training materials for its law enforcement officers related to criminal 
procedure, including suspect interrogation?

    Question 5. Can you commit to providing the Committee with any 
training materials the Fish and Wildlife Service uses to train its law 
enforcement officers?

    Question 6. What are the departmental policies that allowed the 
Service to hire a foreign informant?

    Question 7. What policies allow the Service to set the compensation 
of paid, covert informants, and who approves these payments?

    Question 8. Did the Service authorize the informant to steal 
documents and use U.S. spying equipment while carrying out his mission?

    Question 9. Does the Service rely on the assistance of animal 
rights groups such as PETA, Born Free, and Cruelty Free International 
when carrying out international operations?

    Question 10. Did the Service actively attempt to arrange employment 
for the informant with animal right groups like PETA, Born Free and 
Cruelty Free International?

    Question 11. Are you aware that China has proclaimed this species 
of non-human primate to be of strategic national importance to their 
country? And, what does that mean to you?

    Question 12. Does China have anything to gain while US medical 
research is handcuffed by questionable accusations and investigations 
of this sort?

    Question 13. It is our understanding that ``operation long tail 
macaque'' involves only 8 CITES shipments, however the Service has, in 
essence, issued an embargo on all imports and re-exports of not only 
live animals but also derivatives that are part of ongoing biomedical 
research going back 5 years. How does the Service justify this overly 
broad approach? What due process has been offered to permit holders who 
(detrimentally, as it turns out) relied on USFWS issued CITES permits 
that have now been suspended? Has the Service consulted with the 
biomedical community to better understand the impact of these permit 
denials on critical time sensitive research and to seek ways to 
mitigate the damage when the imports/re-exports are not directly 
related to the 8 shipments at issue in the indictment?

            Questions Submitted by Representative Stansbury

    Question 1. I understand there are over 1,000 macaques from 
Cambodia that are now in limbo here in the U.S. because they can't be 
used in research and they can't be returned to the wild. What is the 
status and fate of those macaques?

    Question 2. Would you please explain why the larger investigation, 
of which this Kry trial is a part, is important?

    Question 3. Please explain why investigating transnational 
organized crime is so important and what Fish and Wildlife's role is in 
that?

    Question 4. As we all know, the use of informants is common in 
investigations. Why was it so important in this particular 
investigation?

    Question 5. Was the amount paid to this informant unusual for an 
investigation of this magnitude, importance, and duration?

    Question 6. What was the basis for the acquittal in the case? Was 
it because there was not a crime committed?

    Question 7. Is there any doubt that the origin of wild macaques 
from Cambodia were being laundered?

                                 ______
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Ms. Williams. We will now recognize 
our Members for their questions. The first one is the Vice 
Chair, the Member from Georgia, Mr. Collins.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Director Williams, as you are aware, the U.S. Fish and 
Wildlife Service participated in the arrest of a high-ranking 
Cambodian Government official in the JFK Airport as part of 
this investigation in November 2022. Mr. Kry was detained in 
the airport, arrested, and denied access to an attorney or his 
embassy staff before being questioned, despite clearly not 
understanding his rights.
    So, I want to put aside for a second any crimes that may 
have taken place. Mr. Kry is basically your counterpart, but 
for Cambodia, which is a friendly nation. Now, if you were 
arrested in a friendly nation while traveling on official 
government business with a diplomatic passport, at a minimum 
would you have expected to have access to an American embassy 
before being interrogated, especially if that is a right 
guaranteed by that country?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Collins, I first want 
to answer that we did follow all required procedures.
    The answer is I would not, frankly, from this government, 
entertain corrupt dealings. So, I would never be at risk of 
that.
    Mr. Collins. It is just a yes or no question is all I was 
trying to get.
    Ms. Williams. Could you repeat the question, then, please?
    Mr. Collins. At a minimum, would you have expected to have 
access to an American embassy before being interrogated, if 
that is a right guaranteed by the country?
    Ms. Williams. I can't answer that in that I would not be in 
that position.
    Mr. Collins. That is a basic law question.
    Ms. Williams. Well, Congressman Collins----
    Mr. Collins. Let's put it aside. I am down to 3 minutes.
    Putting aside any crimes that could have taken place here, 
again, as Director of the Fish and Wildlife Service, do you 
expect your law enforcement officers, when interrogating 
suspects either domestic or foreign, to uphold the law?
    Just yes or no.
    Ms. Williams. Absolutely.
    Mr. Collins. All right. And what type of training did they 
receive to ensure that this happens? Because if it is not 
happening, I mean, honestly, the facts of the case don't 
matter. And I am sure that we all agree that America deserves 
better.
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Collins, the facts of 
this case have borne out in trial. It is an ongoing criminal 
investigation for which there are remaining seven arrest 
warrants, were those individuals to come into this country.
    But our law enforcement officers are specially trained with 
years of experience, and they put their lives on the line day 
in and day out to carry out their duties in defense of this 
country.
    Mr. Collins. Director Williams, the chapter 16, 742(b) of 
the United States Code lays out the requirements for the 
position that you hold. Specifically, no individual may be 
appointed as the director unless he or she is, by reason of 
scientific education and experience, knowledgeable in the 
principles of fisheries and wildlife management. Did you have a 
scientific education and experience prior to your confirmation 
to this role that satisfied this requirement?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair and Congressman Collins, I am 
knowledgeable in the principles of science and biology. I have 
a long record of experience in working with these issues.
    Mr. Collins. So, do you believe that this is a frivolous 
requirement in the law, given your educational background 
coming into the position?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Collins, I believe 
that my appointment adheres to the law.
    Mr. Collins. Has the DOI Solicitor's Office ever weighed in 
on this matter to determine whether or not you are holding this 
position illegally or legally?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, I believe that there has been 
litigation that was dismissed repeatedly on this matter.
    Mr. Collins. I am running out of time, that is my problem.
    The Committee has learned that the Fish and Wildlife 
Service failed to inform or involve the Cambodian Government 
during the Operation Long Tail Liberation, as revealed during 
the trial of Kry and the Deputy Director of the Department of 
Wildlife and Biodiversity there for the Cambodian Forestry 
Administration. Why did the Service conduct this operation in 
Cambodia without first seeking the consent or involvement of 
the Cambodian Government?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Collins, the U.S. Fish 
and Wildlife Service Office of Law Enforcement did seek and 
work with the State Department, with Homeland Security, with a 
whole number of other organizations. They did not go through 
the Cambodian Government for the very reason that they were 
concerned and we had credible evidence of corruption within 
those individuals indicted in this case in the Cambodian 
Government.
    Mr. Collins. All right. Mr. Chairman, I am going to have to 
yield back.
    Thank you, ma'am.
    Dr. Gosar. The gentleman from Virginia is now recognized 
for his 5 minutes.
    Dr. Wittman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Director Williams, thank you so much for joining us today. 
Let me begin with this. Were you aware that the informant that 
you were working with was a Chinese national?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Wittman, first off, 
that informant was approved under the previous administration, 
as was the investigation. But yes, the CPI was a Chinese 
national working for a Chinese company that we were 
investigating for their criminal activities. So, yes, sir.
    Dr. Wittman. Did the Service do any due diligence to 
determine what connections the Chinese national may have with 
the CCP or with the Politburo members in their role with this 
Chinese company?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Wittman, the Service 
absolutely followed all protocols for using a CPI of a foreign 
national.
    Dr. Wittman. So, you did the due diligence to look at any 
connections there to any entity connected to the CCP or the 
Politburo.
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Wittman, I did not 
myself, but I know that our Office of Law Enforcement officers 
followed all procedures.
    Dr. Wittman. And we know, subsequent to his work, that the 
Chinese national was offered placement here in the United 
States. Security, also job placement. Can you give me some idea 
about what efforts were made and where he was placed in a job 
here in the United States?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Wittman, no, I cannot 
answer that question directly because of the ongoing 
investigation.
    But I can say that we worked with Homeland Security, the 
State Department, and the Department of Justice in bringing 
this CPI into the country so that we would be able to use his 
testimony.
    Dr. Wittman. Was there any connection with the attempts to 
gain employment for him with organizations that inquired with 
the Fish and Wildlife Service concerning their concerns about 
the use of these monkeys in research and the illegal trade of 
these monkeys from Cambodia?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Wittman, I am not 
aware of that.
    Dr. Wittman. OK. There is always a challenge as we see what 
happened with COVID, and we see the associations with medical 
research in China and in medical research in the United States, 
all the way from things like Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients 
to medical research here. Is there anything or any concern 
about the efforts that you are undertaking using a Chinese 
national in what could have been, in that particular case, an 
effort by China to gain an advantage in medical research?
    Obviously, these primates, while we all care about these 
primates and want to make sure that they are treated properly, 
we know too that there is a high degree of importance in 
medical research, especially with groundbreaking medical 
technologies that are able to save lives. Again, the balance 
needs to be struck there. But are there concerns about what 
this could do to give China a competitive advantage in that 
realm of medical research?
    In other words, are there things that potentially could 
have happened here with the effort to understand if there is an 
illegal trade with these monkeys that could be something that 
was to China's interest to be able to interrupt that effort by 
the United States in using primates in medical research?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, Congressman Wittman, I mean, of 
course, that is something we would always pay attention to. 
There was never an intent to support Chinese research or 
anything like that.
    The interesting piece of this case I think that has been 
missed is that this was a Chinese company operating in 
Cambodia. And the very fact that if wild macaques were 
laundered and brought into the captive bred macaque community, 
it could undermine those law abiding, legally operating 
biomedical companies in this country and bring in zoonotic 
diseases.
    So, it is the contrary. By laundering wild macaques into 
captive bred facilities, that undermines the procedures that 
law abiding biomedical companies adhere to in this country. We, 
at the Fish and Wildlife Service, are working with the National 
Association of Biomedical Research to make sure there are 
protocols in place so that wild macaques, especially those with 
diseases, are not illegally laundered and brought into our 
country and undermining our competitive advantage.
    Dr. Wittman. Yes, got you.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you for your question.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentleman.
    Dr. Wittman. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. The gentlewoman, the Ranking Member from New 
Mexico, Ms. Stansbury, is recognized for her 5 minutes.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Director, one of the things that I think is important for 
people to understand is that Fish and Wildlife Service actually 
has a law enforcement division. These are commissioned officers 
that engage with the FBI, the CIA, international law 
enforcement, and local police. These folks carry guns. They are 
dealing with cartels. They are dealing with international human 
traffickers. They are dealing with really bad people. Is that 
correct?
    Ms. Williams. Yes, Ranking Member Stansbury. They put their 
lives on the line every day to protect our country.
    Ms. Stansbury. And I think it is important that people 
understand that wildlife trafficking is not just about the 
wildlife, though. That is very, very important, and let's be 
clear about that. We are talking about primates that are 
classified not only as endangered here in the United States, 
but they are also classified internationally under the UN as 
endangered species.
    So, we have a Chinese-based company, a Chinese-owned 
company that is essentially using a third party in Cambodia to 
go capture primates that are endangered in the wild, then 
changing the papers so that they can illegally transport them 
into the United States and sell them to an American company in 
order to do biomedical research. That is essentially the 
outline of the case. Is that correct?
    Ms. Williams. Ranking Member Stansbury, yes.
    Ms. Stansbury. And in many cases, these companies that are 
involved in international wildlife trafficking are, and I am 
not saying in this case, because I don't have all of the 
background on this company, but in many, many cases, and this 
is what Fish and Wildlife encounters every day, these folks are 
wrapped up in international cartels, crime syndicates. There is 
human trafficking. There is gun trafficking going on. Like, 
there are serious crimes in addition to the animal crimes that 
are occurring.
    And the reason why we crack down on these crimes is not 
only because of the implications for research and what that 
will mean for biomedical research in the United States, not 
only because it is illegal here in the United States, not only 
because it is bad for the animals themselves and for the 
ecosystems that they are a part of, but because it is part of 
international crime.
    And I want to point out that this very Committee has 
already held six Committee hearings about the border and about 
international crime, and yet I am hearing my friends across the 
aisle trying to bend over backwards to defend international 
wildlife traffickers. It is hard to wrap my mind around, I am 
just going to put it that way.
    So, let's just talk here for a moment about this specific 
case. It is my understanding from speaking to folks at Fish and 
Wildlife and from the background materials of this case that it 
is an ongoing investigation, and that one of the judges who was 
involved in trying the first defendant said that absolutely 
there was a crime committed. Is that correct?
    Ms. Williams. Ranking Member Stansbury, I don't----
    Ms. Stansbury. If you don't have it in front of you, I will 
read the quote.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you.
    Ms. Stansbury. The quote from Judge Williams says, ``To say 
again, I think this jury and any jury would absolutely convict 
Vanny,'' this is the Chinese-based company that is involved in 
this international cartel, ``and its personnel because they 
have been proved to be criminally culpable.'' So, why are we 
trying this case in the House Natural Resources Committee? It 
is being tried by law enforcement and the judiciary. I find it 
very strange that this Committee is monkeying around, no pun 
intended, in a trial involving international crime syndicates, 
as it is actively being investigated by Federal law enforcement 
with a criminal syndicate that we know a judge and a jury have 
already said have criminal culpability.
    So, Mr. Chairman, I do appreciate that we are shining a 
light on this issue, because I do believe that we should be 
finding alternatives. And we do have these 1,000 individual 
primates that are stuck in limbo because of this case, and that 
is inhumane, and these animals should be transferred to a 
sanctuary. But I do not think it is appropriate for Congress to 
be using its resources to interfere in a criminal trial right 
now.
    With that, I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentlewoman, and I will address it 
myself.
    Ms. Williams, the United States and Cambodia are both 
parties to CITES, right?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, that is correct, along with their 
184 parties to CITES.
    Dr. Gosar. Yes, I understand that. But why did the Service 
choose to completely ignore the treaty and try to prosecute 
this foreign activity in a U.S. court?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, we actually were not ignoring the 
CITES treaty but were enforcing it. In addition to this case, 
the CITES Secretariat themselves are investigating this as 
well.
    Dr. Gosar. But once again, you are on a foreign country's 
turf, and you have to go through those treaty obligations. You 
have to have the goodwill of that country, don't you?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, absolutely. But the point of CITES 
is that you adhere to the requirements of CITES. And in this 
instance, the Cambodian Government was issuing fraudulent CITES 
permits to fraudulently and dangerously bring wild long-tailed 
macaques into this country, and negatively impact our own 
biomedical research here.
    Dr. Gosar. OK. So, then how do you explain the leaked 
information that showed up in the PETA regarding the indictment 
and trial for this operation?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, I am not aware of any leak.
    Dr. Gosar. OK, you say that PETA never had these documents 
and pictures? They had none of this?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, I am not aware of PETA having 
anything that wasn't in the public record.
    Dr. Gosar. Well, I am really confused here now. PETA has 
information that is pertinent to the indictments of these 
individuals. How did that happen?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, as I said, I am not aware of PETA 
having any information that was not in the public record.
    But what I would clarify too, I want to make sure everyone 
knows that when the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service gets 
information, we deem it credible and we have corroborated it. 
We should use that regardless of its source, as long as it is 
accurately corroborated.
    Dr. Gosar. So, is somebody just automatically guilty and 
they have to prove themselves innocent, or are they innocent 
until proven guilty?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, certainly the law pertains here, 
so they are innocent until proven guilty.
    Dr. Gosar. Just checking on that.
    Yes, I would like to submit for the record the recorded 
interview of Mr. Kry.
    Without objection, so ordered.

    [The information follows:]
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The full document is available for viewing at:

https://docs.house.gov/meetings/II/II15/20240910/117486/HHRG-
118-II15-20240910-SD009.pdf

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    Dr. Gosar. Now, I know you don't have much of a science 
background, but I want to still ask this question anyway. What 
are our options?
    I mean, you heard the Ranking Member talk about all these 
primates in limbo. You know, we can do AI. We now have the 
ability to make human bladders and all sorts of different 
things. When is some of this going to stop with these primates? 
What options will we have, and how long do you see us giving 
options before inducing dogs, cats, primates?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, I am not sure I understand your 
question.
    Dr. Gosar. How long do you think it is going to take us to 
get past these animal trials and start doing them on human-
formed bladders and stuff like that?
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, I believe that there actually are 
some methods that are in place now that don't require research 
on non-human primates.
    But nonetheless, I want to be clear that there has not been 
a ban on non-human primates in this country, and there are 
CITES permits and CITES-traded, legal traded, wildlife that 
come into this country every day, thanks to our Office of Law 
Enforcement investigators who are at the borders securing our 
nation's security as these and other illegally-traded goods 
come into this country.
    Dr. Gosar. I understand that, but my question was, in your 
opinion, how long is it going to take us to get away from these 
animal trials? Point blank.
    Ms. Williams. Mr. Chair, I will have to get back to you. 
But I do know there is some research that happens without it.
    Dr. Gosar. My last comment is just for the record. In this 
trial, the company under discussion, Vanny, which is 
headquartered in Hong Kong, was not charged. OK.
    With that, I think we are done with our questions, and I 
will dismiss the witness and go to Panel 2.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you, Mr. Chair. On the last comment, 
the seven remaining indictments, six of them were Chinese 
nationals that worked for Vanny. So, the company employees were 
a part of this.
    Dr. Gosar. Well, I guess going back to my first question, 
there was a treaty under CITES, and it seems like the United 
States did what they wanted to do. And I am just saying that 
they didn't follow the treaty obligations and go through 
Cambodia first. And I think there are a lot of problems with 
this, whether it be in a war, whether it be the transfer of 
primates. I think we have serious misgivings about our position 
in the world that we can violate any law we want to, whenever 
we want to.
    So, with that, thank you very much, Ms. Williams, and we 
appreciate it. And we will take a 5-minute break until the 
second panel can get put into place. Thank you.
    Ms. Williams. Thank you.
    [Pause.]
    Dr. Gosar. Welcome back, everyone. I will now introduce the 
second panel.
    Mr. Paul Pelletier, Attorney and Consultant, PEP Talk 
Advisors, Fairfax, Virginia; second, Donna Clemons, D.V.M., 
DACLAM, Retired Research Veterinarian, Trevor, Wisconsin; 
third, Mr. Thomas Gillespie, Professor and Chair, Department of 
Environmental Sciences, Emory University, Atlanta, Georgia; and 
finally, Dr. Chris Abee, Professor Emeritus, MD Anderson Cancer 
Center, the University of Texas, Paige, Texas.
    Let me remind the witnesses that under the Committee Rules, 
you must limit your oral statement to 5 minutes. However, your 
entire statement will be placed in the record.
    I will now start by recognizing Mr. Pelletier for his first 
5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF PAUL PELLETIER, ATTORNEY AND CONSULTANT, PEP TALK 
                  ADVISORS, FAIRFAX, VIRGINIA

    Mr. Pelletier. Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, thank you 
for your time this morning, and thank you to the Committee for 
its time and attention to this most important matter.
    Let me start by being blunt. The costly 5-year undercover 
investigation and subsequent trial of a Cambodian Government 
official by the Fish and Wildlife Service was an abject 
failure.
    This disastrous investigation and prosecution was the 
direct result of a severely flawed and unsupervised plan. The 
government's conduct was unlawful, and institutional bias of 
the Fish and Wildlife was nothing short of a misguided effort 
to obstruct the importation and transportation of non-human 
primates, or NHPs, for critical medical, vaccine, and drug 
research. This illegal effort has resulted in a negative global 
impact to human health, and has damaged medical research in the 
United States.
    It has been consistently apparent that the Fish and 
Wildlife, under the influence of PETA and other so-called 
animal advocacy groups, was more focused on a relentless 
publicity campaign. This half-decade PR campaign began when the 
Fish and Wildlife investigation was transparently dubbed 
``Operation Long Tail Liberation.'' It was then carried out 
through the recruitment of an unmonitored and uncontrolled 
Chinese national as a U.S.-paid illegal undercover informant.
    And what did all this effort and expense yield? First, the 
dismissal of six of eight charges against the Cambodian 
official in response to the government's mismanagement and 
withholding of evidence. Then the jury acquitted the Cambodian 
official of the remaining two charges, rejecting the 
government's allegations completely. It is now clear that the 
government never actually possessed evidence to support the 
charges against the Cambodian official. Prior to the trial in 
Miami, I spent months reviewing Fish and Wildlife's so-called 
evidence and then watched every day of the trial in person. I 
will lay this out for you plainly.
    First, starting in 2017, a Chinese national was recruited 
and paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Fish and Wildlife 
to act in an effectively unsupervised and undercover role as 
the agency conducted its off-the-books operation at a large NHP 
breeding farm in Cambodia, which for many years had reliably 
sold NHPs to importers in the United States and other 
countries.
    Rather than actually liberate any long tail macaques, which 
of course is not the mission of Fish and Wildlife's Office of 
Law Enforcement, it is apparent that the agency repeatedly 
broke international laws by conducting the undercover operation 
on foreign soil without the proper consent of either Cambodian 
or U.S. State Department officials. In so doing, Fish and 
Wildlife endangered American citizens by causing the complete 
cessation of imports of any NHPs from Cambodia, which was by 
far the largest supplier of NHPs to the United States, 
especially since 2020, when a ban on the exportation of 
Chinese-bred NHPs due to COVID went into effect.
    While Fish and Wildlife was conducting its 5-year illegal 
operation, it continued to authorize the entry into the United 
States of tens of thousands of NHPs that they now claim, 
without any credible evidence, were exported illegally into the 
United States.
    It doesn't end there. As Fish and Wildlife's illegal 
operation continued, the government unconstitutionally labeled 
my client, Worldwide Primates, an unindicted co-conspirator 
when, according to the Fish and Wildlife's own paid Chinese 
operative, the government absolutely knew that my client had no 
involvement in any criminal activity.
    Despite the acquittal, as we have confirmed with a public 
records request and evidence admitted at trial, Fish and 
Wildlife's undercover Chinese operatives remained on the 
agency's payroll, earning tens of thousands of more taxpayer 
dollars in yet another covert international investigation in 
Cambodia, this one aptly code-named ``Operation Monkey 
Business.'' Incredibly, the government then moved the Chinese 
national and his family to the United States at taxpayer 
expense.
    In sum, Mr. Chairman, Fish and Wildlife's refusal to abide 
by the long-held demonstrably effective protocols already set 
forth in the international CITES treaty in which Fish and 
Wildlife plays a central enforcement role has set back 
international cooperation for decades, all because Fish and 
Wildlife and the DOJ have lost sight of their established 
missions. Instead, they have taken sides with private sector 
radical animal rights groups like PETA to prevent U.S. 
Government mandated and essential commerce of NHPs for our 
vital domestic bioscience and vaccine research program.
    The indictment, not CITES, effectively removed Cambodia as 
a supplier of captive bred NHPs for export to only the United 
States. Fish and Wildlife is now implementing a de facto ban on 
importing any NHPs bred in captive breeding centers in 
Cambodia, none of which were referenced in the indictment or in 
any official records. These disastrous consequences 
disadvantaged only United States stakeholders, namely 
scientific researchers and their suppliers. Other countries 
such as Canada, Japan, and Korea remain free to import from 
Cambodia under valid CITES permits.
    Meanwhile, China continues its primate bioscience research 
unabated. After implementing its 2022 export ban, China can now 
advance scientific research to the detriment of the United 
States healthcare organizations and the American public's need 
for cures and vaccines.
    Thank you very much.

    [The prepared statement of Mr. Pelletier follows:]
                Prepared Statement of Paul E. Pelletier

    Mr. Chairman, thank you for your introduction this morning. And 
thank you to the subcommittee for its time and attention to this most 
important matter.
    Let me start by being blunt: the costly, five-year, extra-
territorial ``undercover'' investigation and subsequent trial of a 
Cambodian government wildlife official that U.S. Fish and Wildlife 
Service (``FWS'') was investigating was an abject failure.
    This disastrous investigation and prosecution was the direct result 
of a severely flawed and unsupervised plan. The government's conduct 
was unlawful, and the institutional bias of the FWS was nothing short 
of a misguided effort to obstruct the importation and transportation of 
Non-Human Primates (``NHPs'') for critical medical, bioscience, vaccine 
and drug research. This illegal effort has resulted in a negative 
global impact to human health and has damaged medical research in the 
U.S.
    It has been consistently apparent that FWS, under the influence of 
PETA and other so-called ``animal advocacy'' groups, was more focused 
on a relentless publicity campaign. This half-decade PR campaign began 
when the FWS investigation was transparently dubbed ``Operation 
Longtail Liberation.'' It was then carried out through the recruitment 
of an unmonitored and uncontrolled Chinese national as a U.S.-paid 
illegal undercover informant.
    And what did all this expense and effort net? First, the dismissal 
of seven of the nine charges against the Cambodian official in response 
to the government's mismanagement and withholding of evidence. Then, 
the jury acquitted the Cambodian Wildlife official on the remaining two 
charges, rejecting the government's allegations completely.
    It is now clear that the U.S. government never actually possessed 
evidence to support the charges against the Cambodian official.
    All of this has seriously undermined FWS' core mission. Having 
personally supervised and prosecuted hundreds of complex international 
criminal fraud schemes on the government's behalf, I am experienced in 
these areas of law and with government agencies, including FWS.
    I was privileged to serve as a federal prosecutor with the 
Department of Justice for over 25 years. In Miami, I supervised both 
the Narcotics and Economic Sections for more than 10 years. In 2002 I 
was called to Main Justice in DC to assist in revitalizing the Criminal 
Division's Fraud Section tasked with overseeing the burgeoning 
accounting fraud scandals that were affecting confidence in our 
economy.
    And, for more than 15 years, I trained prosecutors and agents on 
how to conduct complex international investigations at DOJ's National 
Advocacy Center.
    Mr. Chairman, prior to the trial in Miami of this Cambodian 
official, I spent months reviewing FWS' so-called evidence and then 
watched every day of the trial in person.
    I'll lay this out for you, plainly:
    First, starting in 2017, a Chinese national was recruited and was 
paid hundreds of thousands of U.S. dollars by FWS to act in an 
unsupervised undercover role as the agency conducted its off-the-books 
operation at a large NHP breeding farm in Cambodia which for many years 
reliably sold NHPs to importers in the United States and other 
countries.
    Rather than actually ``liberate'' any longtail macaques, which of 
course is not the mission of the FWS Office of Law Enforcement, it is 
apparent that the agency repeatedly broke international laws by 
conducting the undercover operation on foreign soil without the consent 
of either Cambodia or the U.S. State Department.
    In so doing, FWS endangered American citizens by causing the 
complete cessation of imports of any NHPs from Cambodia, which was by 
far the largest supplier of NHPs to the United States, especially since 
2020 when a ban on the exportation of Chinese-bred NHPs due to COVID 
went into effect.
    While FWS was conducting its 5-year illegal operation, it continued 
to authorize the entry into the U.S. of tens of thousands of NHPs that 
they now claim, without credible evidence, were exported illegally into 
the United States.
    It doesn't end there.
    As FWS' illegal operation continued, the government 
unconstitutionally labeled my client, Worldwide Primates (WWP), an 
``unindicted coconspirator,'' when, according to FWS' own paid 
undercover operative, the government absolutely knew that my client had 
no involvement in any such scheme.
    After the acquittal at trial, as we have confirmed with a public 
records request and evidence admitted at trial, the FWS's undercover 
operative remained on the agency's payroll, earning tens of thousands 
of more taxpayer dollars in yet another covert international 
investigation in Cambodia, this one aptly Code named ``Operation Monkey 
Business.'' Incredibly, the government then moved the operative and his 
family to the United States at taxpayer expense.
    In sum, Mr. Chairman, FWS' refusal to abide by the long-held, 
demonstrably effective protocols already set forth in the international 
CITES treaty, in which the FWS plays a central enforcement role, has 
set back international cooperation in this area for decades. All 
because the FWS and the DOJ have lost sight of their established 
missions.
    Instead, they have taken sides with private sector radical animal 
rights groups like PETA to prevent the US-government-mandated and 
essential commerce of NHPs for our vital domestic bioscience and 
vaccine research programs.
    You should know that though the undercover portion of ``Operation 
Longtail Liberation'' officially ended in January 2022, the DOJ waited 
more than seven months to bring charges; all the while, FWS continued 
to authorize the importation of thousands of NHP's into the US--NHP's 
which the FWS now refuses to be allowed for bio-science research.
    So they delay bringing these charges until July 2022--not 
coincidentally, this was one week after the public revelation of a 
PETA-driven and questionable report which, of course, concluded that 
longtail macaques were now ``endangered.'' This was a complete 
falsehood, contrary to the CITES determination that these longtail 
macaques are not in fact endangered at all and instead are an Appendix 
II ``threatened'' species. Interestingly, DOJ just managed to include 
that legally irrelevant and orphaned ``endangered'' finding in its 
press release announcing the arrest of the Cambodian Wildlife official.
    And soon after the unsealing of the indictment, the United States 
Attorney's office in Miami issued a grand jury subpoena to publicly 
traded importer of research NHP's, knowing that they would have to be 
announced publicly by the company. Despite the fact the there existed 
no possible venue in the Southern District of Florida! Nevertheless, 
upon the mandatory disclosure of the subpoena, investors in that public 
company lost more than $1.25 billion dollars.
    Along with collaborating with and embracing PETA, whose stated 
mission is to prevent the importation and use of all animals for any 
purpose (including bioscience research as required by both vaccine 
development and US law), the FWS confidentially shared aspects of its 
investigation with PETA, so PETA could promote FWS' actions. The FWS 
covertly provided copies of the indictment and undercover video tapes 
directly and immediately to PETA--and only PETA--for its use in 
generating positive sounding press releases about FWS' actions. We know 
this incestuous collaboration continues.
    Mr. Chairman, no such similar collaboration occurs between the FWS 
and US-based importers of NHPs for bioscience research--and these are 
the very organizations that have the greatest breadth of knowledge and 
experience in the operations of overseas, purpose-bred NHP farming. 
Such private companies regularly ``audit'' the breeding operations of 
foreign farms to ensure proper conservation measures are utilized.
    Now to add some perspective, according to the Centers for Disease 
Control (CDC), the number of NHPs annually imported into the United 
States, has remained relatively consistent at around 25K per annum for 
the last 15 years. In the wake of the COVID pandemic, a severe export 
ban enacted by China in March 2020 removed a large portion of 
previously available, captive-bred NHPs from the global marketplace. 
This left Cambodia, Mauritius, the Philippines, Vietnam, and Indonesia 
as the remaining habitats for NHPs that could still be lawfully 
imported into the United States.
    It is important to note that because longtail macaques are an 
Appendix II threatened species, there is no law that prohibits the 
import of wild caught NHP's into the United States as long as they are 
labeled as such on the required CITES permit (as Source code ``W''), 
and that the importation process is accomplished in accordance with all 
relevant laws in the country of export. Nevertheless, the biomedical 
research community had largely shifted from the use of wild caught NHPs 
to ``purpose-bred'' NHPs over the last several decades. In addition to 
important conservational benefits, this shift ensured a better quality 
NHP for the scientific research sector.
    In the U.S., it is the future of the NHP sector.
    The Southern District of Florida's (``SDFL'') 2022 Indictment--not 
CITES--effectively removed Cambodia as a supplier of captive-bred NHPs 
for export only to the United States. The FWS is now refusing entry 
even to NHPs bred in other captive breeding centers in Cambodia, none 
of which were referenced in the indictment or in any official records.
    The disastrous consequences disadvantage only United States 
stakeholders, namely scientific researchers and their suppliers. Other 
countries, such as Canada, Japan, and Korea, remain free to import from 
Cambodia under valid CITES permits. China continues its primate bio-
science research unabated after implementing its 2020 export ban, 
allowing China to advance in research to the detriment of the United 
States scientific community and the public's need for cures and 
vaccines. China also does not actively account for the parental source 
of NHP's.
    Notwithstanding that CITES directly provides immediate and broad 
remedies for the conduct and suspected activity cited by the FWS in the 
indictment of Cambodia, the five-year investigation has caused 
irreparable damage to the use and availability of lawfully acquired 
NHPs by US suppliers and research organizations. CITES' historically 
effective programs for wildlife management have been tossed to the 
wayside. Contrary to the FWS' mission of wildlife conservation and the 
stated purpose of CITES, the net effect of the ill-fated 2022 
Indictment has been to increase the number of wild caught NHPs now 
being removed worldwide from their natural homes.
    The ripple effects of the indictment have undermined conservation 
efforts and pushed critical research operations to foreign countries, 
some of which are adversaries of the United States. This compromises 
the global standing of U.S. scientific research and puts at risk US-
developed intellectual property. This, of course, has been China's plan 
all along, as evidenced by their ``Made in China 2025 Initiative.''
    While U.S.-based research has been stifled, Canada has now become 
the largest importer of animals of Cambodian origin, and demand for 
necessary research is migrating out of the U.S., straight over our 
Northern border.
    Some U.S. companies, including WWP, have been forward-thinking, 
establishing their own purpose-bred colonies here in the United States. 
These homegrown NHP farms reduce imports and dependance on foreign 
sources.
    But now, as a continuation of the bludgeon-like intent of 
``Operation Longtail Liberation,'' and even after their spectacular 
failure at the Miami trial, FWS is preventing export of specimens taken 
from Cambodian NHPs that were acquired legally via FWS authorization 
years ago.
    FWS's permitting denials appear to be applied with an inexplicably 
unreasonable broad brush, especially since DOJ prosecutors and FWS 
agents were unable to trace as ``wild caught'' NHP's in specific 
Cambodian shipments post-2018 as alleged in the 2022 indictment, and at 
the trial of the Cambodian Wildlife official.
    Scientific researchers who purchased NHPs prior to the 2022 
indictment and have used them on vital research are now unable to get 
permits to export the blood and tissue samples at the conclusion of 
their studies. Other research organizations that purchased Cambodian 
NHPs prior to 2023 but have not yet taken delivery of them currently 
refuse to do so, as they are concerned with retributive actions by FWS. 
Many research organizations have canceled orders for all animals of 
Cambodian origin. As a result, some research organizations have shifted 
to utilizing imported feral animals.
    In addition to all of this, the actions of these agencies have 
caused real and significant harm to the United States' relationship 
with our ally Cambodia. The Cambodian government has made it known that 
it is troubled by the U.S.'s treatment of the Cambodian Wildlife 
official, including the Court-suppressed unconstitutional actions of 
the FWS agents at his arrest, his false imprisonment pre-trial and 
treatment at trial. It has questioned whether the actions of the FWS 
violated international or domestic laws or the CITES treaty in carrying 
out the illegal undercover operations in Cambodia. The United States 
government may have a long way to go address the certain harms that 
have been caused by this matter.
    Finally, if, as a net result of the ill-advised, deliberately 
biased, mismanaged and failed FWS operations, the United States moves 
forward to ``uplisting'' longtail macaques to ``Endangered'' status 
under the Endangered Species Act, importations of these very specific 
NHPs to the United States will end. Longtail macaques are the primate 
most commonly used for preclinical studies due to their >90% similarity 
to human DNA. Researchers will feel even more supply pressure and may 
be forced to send their studies to countries like China, where longtail 
macaques are readily available and safeguards for quality control, 
efficacy, and animal welfare are effectively nonexistent.
    The FWS must understand that US importers of NHPs have a unique 
understanding of an industry that could benefit from enforcement and 
protection of relevant species. In fact, collaboration with importers 
is logical and absolutely necessary to ensure the integrity of FWS' 
efforts in this area. So I ask Mr. Chairman, why isn't this cooperation 
happening and why isn't the FWS using the global CITES treaty to 
address this perceived problem?
    Thank you.

                                 ______
                                 

        Questions Submitted for the Record to Mr. Paul Pelletier

            Questions Submitted by Representative Stansbury

    Question 1. Is it your position that current demand for macaques in 
medical research in the US cannot be met with verified captive bred 
monkeys?

    Answer. As discussed in my testimony, rather than utilize the 
historically effective international protocols established by CITES, 
the Fish & Wildlife Service (FWS) has essentially superseded CITES 
protocols by imposing a de-facto import ban on all NHP's from Cambodia 
by refusing clearance of any primate shipments. This selective use of 
the CITES framework and protocols continues to wreak havoc on the 
health science industry. Given that FWS has selectively jettisoned 
requisite CITES protocols, NHP suppliers are left without essential 
implementing guidance as to what evidence would be sufficient to 
confirm acceptable foreign captive breeding. Thus, to the detriment of 
expressed conservation efforts, a captive-bred NHP shortage has been 
artificially created by FWS for only U.S. vaccine and bio-science 
researchers. Import statistics reveal 29,612 primates were imported 
into the USA in 2022, followed by a rapid drop to 16,888 in 2023. The 
ensuing rise of wild caught imports from countries such as Mauritius 
certainly confirms that, with the de facto FWS ban on the importation 
of Cambodian sourced NHP's, the worldwide captive-bred population 
remains insufficient to meet U.S. research needs.

    Question 2. Do you think it is acceptable to use wild macaques for 
research purposes?

    Answer. All federal regulations allow for the use of legally 
procured wild macaques for research purposes. Testimony that wild 
macaques would not be suitable for research purposes has simply has 
never been validated. Historically, as long as imported wild caught 
NHP's go through industry standard screening, importation and 
quarantine procedures, they have been suitable for bioscience and 
vaccine research.
    But you should know that not all imports of wild caught NHP's are 
used directly for research. As the testimony further established, there 
are currently insufficient domestic purpose bred colonies to support 
the U.S. bio-scientific demand. As such, one of the goals of importing 
feral animals, is to increase the US captive colonies, which serves to 
reduce the demand to import animals from abroad. This long-term 
solution was also emphasized by the testimony of Dr. Gillespie.
    WWP has been promoting U.S. based captive breeding colonies for the 
last 30 plus years and has one of the largest U.S. captive colonies in 
the U.S.

                                 ______
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Mr. Pelletier. I now recognize Dr. 
Clemons for her 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF DONNA CLEMONS (RETIRED), D.V.M., DACLAM, RETIRED 
            RESEARCH VETERINARIAN, TREVOR, WISCONSIN

    Dr. Clemons. Thank you. First, I wish to say thank you to 
the Committee for having this hearing and for inviting me to 
provide information that I hope will be helpful to the 
discussion.
    As a career research veterinarian, I have been motivated by 
my deep love and respect for animals and by a desire to support 
the advancement of science and medicine to improve human and 
animal health. Most of my work has been in the private sector, 
supporting drug development and research areas where there is 
high and immediate applicability to human health.
    The pharmaceutical and biotechnology sectors in this 
country rely on non-human primates for medical research, 
particularly for later-stage development and evaluation of 
potential medicines. In the earlier stages, efforts are focused 
on modeling in vitro non-animal methods, and typically other 
animal models such as rats and mice. Once a potential medicine 
has reached a key stage of development, it is usually necessary 
to evaluate the safety and efficacy of it in a species with 
systems more similar to humans.
    Drug development is a long and costly process, taking many 
years from concept of a drug until a medicine is available for 
patient use. Many medicines don't make it to the patient over 
safety concerns or a lack of adequate effectiveness. It is just 
as important that an under-effective or an unsafe product not 
make it to the market as it is to have an effective drug.
    And yes, there is a sense of urgency involved. Patients 
with serious illnesses for autoimmune disease, cancer, 
neurodegenerative diseases, and others are waiting for these 
medications.
    Non-human primates, the long-tailed macaque being the most 
used, have immune, reproductive, neurologic, digestive, and 
cardiovascular systems with tremendous similarity to human 
system functions, and provide predictability regarding the 
human response to medicine. These animals have been 
instrumental in the creation of many of today's medicines and 
treatments. And as a result, the pharmaceutical industry relies 
on a consistent, reliable supply chain from both domestic and 
foreign breeders to meet their research needs.
    Imported animals are a critical component of the supply 
chain and have been for many years. A brief explanation of why 
importation and large breeding facilities need to exist. The 
long-tailed macaque has only one birth per year of a single 
infant. In a well-managed facility, this means we can have 70 
to 80 births expected for a colony of about 100 females and 10 
to 15 males. This number of offspring, when grown, will support 
two late-stage pharmaceutical research projects.
    Breeding and rearing healthy research-appropriate animals 
has been done in large numbers in countries where the climate 
is suitable for this semi-tropical species. As a research 
veterinarian, it was part of my job to evaluate the health and 
general condition of animals, including the non-human primates, 
being purchased for research. My evaluation of the animal 
supply included a review of suppliers, auditing their animal 
care programs, and in many cases conducting on-site inspections 
of the facilities themselves. These audits focused on the 
facilities, their sanitation, medical care, nutrition, the 
welfare of the animals, the staff training, and the behavior of 
the animals.
    In general, I found earnest, knowledgeable staff with a 
genuine concern for the animals in their care that were being 
well treated. I saw breeding facilities with healthy offspring 
and family units, adolescent animals housed in group settings, 
and adult animals being prepared for transport. Over the course 
of my decades-long career, the general health of these animals 
has only improved as the breeding facilities have become more 
sophisticated in their general management, design, medical 
care, and nutrition.
    From my perspective, having worked in the above capacity, I 
am aware of the view in the research community that it is being 
discriminated against by Federal agencies that regulate these 
activities, whereby individuals who may personally disapprove 
of animal research are potentially abusing the power of their 
positions to influence policy, including, for example, treating 
research organizations differently from other animal 
enterprises by slow-walking import and export applications and 
other actions including those discussed today. These behaviors 
have had a negative impact on medical research in the United 
States.
    Thank you, and I am happy to answer any questions the 
Subcommittee may have.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Clemons follows:]
  Prepared Statement of Donna Clemons, DVM, DACLAM, Global Director, 
                     Comparative Medicine (retired)

    I wish to say thank you to the committee for having this hearing 
and for inviting me to provide information that I hope will be helpful 
to the discussion.
    As a career research veterinarian, I have been motivated by my deep 
love and respect for animals and by a desire to support the advancement 
of science and medicine to improve human and animal health. Most of my 
work has been in the private sector, supporting drug development in 
research areas with high and immediate applicability.
    The pharmaceutical and biotechnology sectors rely on nonhuman 
primate models for medical research, particularly for the later stage 
evaluation of potential medicines. In the earlier stages, efforts focus 
on computer modeling, in vitro (non-animal) methods, and typically 
other animal models such as rats and mice.
    Once a potential medicine has reached a key stage of development, 
it is usually necessary to evaluate the safety and efficacy of it in a 
species with systems similar to humans. Drug development is a long and 
costly process, taking many years from concept until a medicine is 
available for patient use. Many medicines don't make it to the patient 
over safety concerns or lack of adequate effectiveness. It's just as 
important that an undereffective or unsafe product be identified and 
NOT enter the market as it is to have an effective drug. And yes, there 
is a sense of urgency--patients with serious illness are waiting and 
hoping for that next treatment for cancer, for autoimmune disease, for 
neurodegenerative disease.
    Non-human primates, the long tail macaque being the most used, have 
immune, reproductive, neurologic, digestive, and cardiovascular systems 
with tremendous similarity to human system functions and provide 
predictability regarding human response to medications. These animals 
have been instrumental in the creation of many of today's medicines and 
treatments and as a result the pharmaceutical industry relies on a 
consistent, reliable supply chain from both domestic and foreign 
breeders to meet research needs. Imported animals are a critical 
component of this supply chain and have been for many years.
    A brief explanation of why importation and large breeding 
facilities exist: the long tail macaque has only one birth per year of 
a single infant. In a well-managed facility, one can expect 70-80 
births per 100 females/10-15 males. This will cover approximately 2 
late-stage pharmaceutical studies.
    Breeding and rearing healthy, research-appropriate animals has been 
done in large numbers in countries with a climate suitable for these 
semi-tropical species. As a research veterinarian, it was part of my 
job to evaluate the health and general condition of animals (including 
the non-human primates) being purchased. My evaluation of animal supply 
included a review of suppliers, auditing their animal care programs, 
and in many cases conducting on-site inspections of the facilities 
themselves. These audits focused on facilities, sanitation, medical 
care, nutrition, welfare, staff training, and animal behavior. In 
general, I found earnest, knowledgeable staff with a genuine concern 
that the animals in their care were being well treated. I saw breeding 
facilities with healthy offspring and family units, adolescent animals 
in group settings, and adult animals being prepared for transport. Over 
the course of my decades-long career, the general health of these 
animals has only improved as the breeding facilities have become more 
sophisticated in general management, facility design, medical care, 
nutrition, and behavior management (handling).
    From my perspective having worked in the above capacity, I am aware 
of the view in the research community that it is being discriminated 
against by federal agencies that regulate these activities whereby 
individuals who may personally disapprove of animal research are 
potentially abusing the power of their positions to influence policy, 
including for example treating research organizations differently from 
other animal enterprises by slow walking importation or exportation 
applications and other actions including those discussed here today. 
These behaviors have had a negative impact on medical research in the 
United States.
    Thank you and I am happy to answer any questions that the 
Subcommittee may have.

                                 ______
                                 

  Questions Submitted for the Record to Dr. Donna Clemons (retired), 
             D.V.M., DACLAM, Retired Research Veterinarian

              Questions Submitted by Representative Gosar

    Question 1. During your career, have you had direct interactions 
with the FWS? What were the nature of those interactions?

    1a) In your experience, is the FWS neutral to customers in terms of 
imports?

    1b) Do they follow the rules for permitting, or do they put their 
thumb on the scale to get the outcome that they want?

    Answer. Throughout my 30+-year research career, I have had numerous 
direct interactions with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS), 
primarily concerning the acquisition of re-export permits for 
biological samples from nonhuman primates. These experiences have often 
been frustrating due to erratic permit granting, long and unexplained 
delays that can range from six weeks to over six months, and instances 
where permits expired without any action from the FWS, necessitating 
the resubmission of identical applications to restart the process. A 
particularly challenging encounter occurred in February 2019 when two 
investigators unexpectedly arrived at my home late in the evening after 
my husband, and I had returned from celebrating my birthday. They 
aggressively interrogated me regarding NHP importation and foreign 
breeders based on work I had conducted seven years prior. When I 
requested legal representation, they returned two hours later with a 
subpoena, which was ultimately withdrawn in favor of an interview at my 
attorney's office.
    In my experience, the FWS does not maintain neutrality toward 
customers regarding imports. This lack of impartiality also extends to 
re-export permits. Conversations with FWS staff and colleagues at other 
institutions revealed that certain organizations and purposes for 
import/export permitting receive preferential treatment. For instance, 
sanctuaries could obtain permits within days, while research 
institutions often faced delays of weeks or even months. During a 
meeting at the Arlington FWS office, I was discreetly informed that 
``not everyone likes what you do,'' suggesting that my permits were 
frequently placed at the ``bottom of the stack'' for processing.
    Based on these observations, it appears that the FWS does not 
strictly adhere to permitting rules. Instead, their actions seem 
influenced by biases toward specific types of work or institutions, 
leading to inconsistencies in how permits are processed and granted.
    I strongly believe that they put their thumb on the scale. There 
appear to be individuals within agencies, including the FWS who use 
their authority to support a private agenda. Industry insiders have 
long concluded that applications related to research are discriminated 
against while other activities are favored.

    Question 2. Based on your testimony, I understand that there are 
now fewer long-tailed macaques imported into the United States for 
medical research under the Biden Administration. How has this impacted 
medical research in the United States?

    Answer. Over the past four years, imports of macaques for medical 
use have declined by over 50%. It goes to reason that medical research 
relying on these animals has declined as well. At the same time, these 
very same animals are being imported by China, Japan, and Canada for 
medical research in those countries.

    Question 3. Do you believe that medical research has declined in 
the United States but increased in foreign countries over the past four 
years due to the policies adopted by the Biden Administration?

    Answer. Yes. The USA is the only country effectively embargoing 
these animals, guaranteeing the offshoring of billions in research to 
rival countries such as China, which have access to the resources. For 
those companies who choose to continue their research, this means 
outsourcing this work to other countries, putting US supremacy in 
science and our intellectual property at greater risk.

            Questions Submitted by Representative Stansbury

    Question 1. Is it your position that current demand for macaques in 
medical research in the US cannot be met with verified captive bred 
monkeys?

    Answer. No. My position is that at this time, the demand cannot be 
met with domestic-bred NHPs, meaning those bred in the U.S. Importing 
primates from established foreign colonies, where the climate is 
suitable for large-scale breeding operations, is a critical component 
of the research resources needed.

    Question 2. Do you think it is acceptable to use wild macaques for 
research purposes?

    Answer. Based on the natural history of macaques, all of these 
animals are considered wild, as they have never been domesticated. A 
more accurate distinction might be between captive-bred and wild-caught 
macaques.
    Captive-bred animals are generally preferred for medical research 
because they are better defined in terms of lifetime health conditions, 
genetics, diet, and other factors. Ethical sourcing is a top priority 
for research organizations, meaning the origin of the animals must be 
reliable.
    The IUCN has noted that macaques are invasive in many parts of the 
world, posing a threat to local wildlife. As an invasive species, they 
have contributed to the endangerment and even extinction of certain 
bird and animal species. In efforts to control their population, 
macaques are often captured or killed. Therefore, using them to 
replenish breeding stocks or for selective research purposes could be 
seen as a more acceptable approach.

                                 ______
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you very much, Dr. Clemons. I will now 
turn to Dr. Gillespie for his 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF THOMAS GILLESPIE, PROFESSOR & CHAIR, DEPARTMENT OF 
   ENVIRONMENTAL SCIENCES, EMORY UNIVERSITY, ATLANTA, GEORGIA

    Dr. Gillespie. Thank you, Chairman, Ranking Member, and 
esteemed members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to speak before you today. I am doing so in my 
personal capacity. The views I express are my own, and do not 
necessarily represent my employer or other bodies on which I 
serve.
    I am Thomas Gillespie, Professor and Chair of Environmental 
Sciences and Professor of Environmental Health at Emory 
University and Rollins School of Public Health in Atlanta, 
Georgia. Prior to my current position, I was a Professor of 
Veterinary Medicine and Anthropology at the University of 
Illinois, Champaign-Urbana. I am also a member of the IUCN 
Primate Specialist Group and an external expert to PREZODE, a 
multi-national effort to prevent zoonotic disease emergence.
    For over two decades, my research has examined risk factors 
for zoonotic disease transmission at the human primate 
interface. I am here to address a critical issue that threatens 
both public health and wildlife conservation: the trade in wild 
macaques for biomedical research.
    Long-tailed macaques, Macaca fascicularis, are used for 
biomedical and pharmaceutical research due to their genetic and 
physiological similarities to humans. Unfortunately, these same 
traits make macaques excellent reservoirs for pathogens that 
can infect us and potentially lead to disease outbreaks in 
humans. Considering the number of animals traded and the 
zoonotic potential of each animal, macaques show the highest 
average volume of potential zoonotic disease of all wildlife 
traded.
    Furthermore, some of these pathogens can alter the immune 
system of monkeys, confounding the results of studies examining 
the effects of a drug or vaccines being tested on monkey 
subjects.
    For these reasons, U.S. research facilities have for 
decades expected healthy, pathogen-free captive bred macaques 
sourced from controlled facilities. The COVID pandemic-related 
reduction in the availability of captive bred long-tailed 
macaques appears to have resulted in the importation of 
substantial numbers of wild macaques labeled as captive bred 
and pathogen free. Since this time, multiple cases of 
melioidosis have been diagnosed in macaques imported from 
Cambodia. Melioidosis is a potentially fatal disease caused by 
a tier one select agent, Burkholderia pseudomallei, which is 
endemic to much of the geographic range of long-tailed 
macaques.
    Equally troubling, CDC data indicate the prevalence of 
culture confirmed tuberculosis in imported non-human primates 
was only 0 from 2013 to 2020, but has increased since the 
pandemic.
    Both Burkholderia and tuberculosis can present 
asymptomatically in macaques, and false negatives to approved 
diagnostic tests for both pathogens are not uncommon. 
Therefore, it is not surprising that multiple cases of TB among 
imported monkeys were reported to CDC up to 2 years post-
quarantine.
    Even more concerning were the six cases of melioidosis 
detected among long-tailed macaques imported from Cambodia. 
Four of these cases were not detected until months after the 
monkeys had entered the United States and been transported to 
other facilities. Both tuberculosis and Burkholderia are 
capable of infecting and causing disease in a broad range of 
mammalian hosts, including humans, domesticated animals, and 
livestock. And environmental conditions in the Southern United 
States could promote establishment of Burkholderia, which can 
be shed in the urine, feces, blood, and saliva of infected 
animals.
    Other than TB, CDC does not currently require screening to 
be performed in apparently healthy non-human primates during 
the CDC-mandated 31-day quarantine period. If importers choose 
to screen apparently healthy animals for zoonotic infections 
during the quarantine period, positive results must be reported 
to CDC within 24 hours. Consequently, TB and Burkholderia are 
just the tip of the iceberg in terms of zoonotic threats to the 
American public. Most future emerging infectious diseases 
remain to be discovered, and the tropical forest habitat of the 
long-tailed macaques is a known hotspot.
    I applaud the U.S. Fish and Wildlife for their efforts to 
combat illegal wildlife trade, and I encourage Congress to 
increase resources available to U.S. Fish and Wildlife to 
facilitate their efforts. Further, I encourage research 
facilities making use of primate models to commit to ending the 
use of wild caught primates, to carefully review the sourcing 
of primates, and to actively promote the use of alternative 
research strategies that do not involve capture of wild non-
human primates.
    I hope these details have clarified the critical importance 
of ending the wild macaque trade. Thank you again for the 
opportunity, and I welcome questions.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Gillespie follows:]
   Prepared Statement of Professor Thomas Gillespie, Emory University

    Chairman, Ranking Member, and Esteemed Members of the Subcommittee: 
Thank you for the opportunity to speak before you today. I'm doing so 
in my personal capacity; the views I express are my own and do not 
necessarily represent my employer or any board, taskforce, commission 
or other body on which I serve.
    I am Thomas Gillespie, Professor and Chair of Environmental 
Sciences and Professor of Environmental Health at Emory University and 
Rollins School of Public Health in Atlanta, Georgia. Prior to my 
current position, I was a Professor of Veterinary Medicine and 
Anthropology at the University of Illinois, Champaign-Urbana. I am also 
a member of the IUCN Primate Specialists Group and an external expert 
to PREZODE, a multinational effort to prevent zoonotic disease 
emergence.
    For over two decades, my research has examined risk factors for 
zoonotic disease transmission at the human / primate interface. I am 
here to address a critical issue that threatens both public health and 
wildlife conservation: the trade in wild macaques for biomedical 
research.
    Long-tailed macaques (Macaca fascicularis) are used for biomedical 
and pharmaceutical research due to their genetic and physiological 
similarities to humans. Unfortunately, these same traits make macaques 
excellent reservoirs for pathogens that can infect us and potentially 
lead to disease outbreaks (Gillespie et al., 2008). Considering the 
number of animals traded and the zoonotic potential of each animal, 
macaques show the highest average volume of potential zoonotic disease 
of all wildlife traded (Borsky et al., 2020). Furthermore, some of 
these pathogens can alter the immune system of monkeys, confounding the 
results of studies examining the effects of a drugs or vaccines being 
tested on monkey subjects (Conroy, 2023). For these reasons, US 
research facilities have, for decades, expected, healthy, pathogen-
free, captive-bred macaques sourced from controlled facilities (Roberts 
and Andrews, 2008; Conroy, 2023).
    The COVID pandemic-related reduction in the availability of 
captive-bred, long-tailed macaques appears to have resulted in the 
importation of substantial numbers of wild macaques labelled as 
captive-bred and pathogen-free (Ruppert et al., 2022; Hansen et al., 
2022). Since this time, multiple cases of melioidosis have been 
diagnosed in macaques imported from Cambodia (CDC, 2022). Melioidosis 
is a potentially fatal disease caused by the Tier 1 Select Agent 
Burkholderia pseudomallei, which is endemic to much of the geographical 
range of long-tailed macaques. Tier 1 Select Agents present the 
greatest risk of deliberate misuse with significant potential for mass 
casualties or devastating effect to the economy, critical 
infrastructure, or public confidence, and pose a severe threat to 
public health and safety. Equally troubling, CDC data indicate the 
prevalence of culture-confirmed tuberculosis in imported non-human 
primates was zero from 2013-2020 but has increased since the pandemic 
(CDC, 2023). Both Burkholderia sp. and Tuberculosis sp. can present 
asymptomatically in macaques and false negatives to approved diagnostic 
tests for both pathogens are not uncommon (CDC, 2022; 2023). Therefore, 
it's not surprising that multiple cases of TB among imported monkeys 
were reported to the CDC up to two years post-quarantine. Even more 
concerning were the six cases of melioidosis detected among long-tailed 
macaques imported from Cambodia. Four of these cases were not detected 
until months after the monkeys had entered the US and been transported 
to other facilities (Taetzsch et al., 2022). Both tuberculosis and 
Burkholderia are capable of infecting and causing disease in a broad 
range of mammalian hosts including humans, domesticated animals, and 
livestock and environmental conditions in the southern US could promote 
establishment of Burkholderia, which can be shed in the urine, feces, 
blood and saliva of infected animals (Portacci et al., 2017; Hall et 
al., 2015; Taetzsch et al., 2022; CDC, 2023).
    Other than TB, CDC does not currently require screening tests to be 
performed in apparently healthy nonhuman primates during the CDC-
mandated 31-day quarantine period. If importers choose to screen 
apparently healthy animals for zoonotic infections during the 
quarantine period, positive results must be reported to CDC within 24 
hours (CDC 2022; 2023). Consequently, TB and Burkholderia are just the 
tip of the iceberg in terms of zoonotic threats to the American public. 
Most future emerging infectious diseases remain to be discovered, and 
the tropical forest habitat of the long-tailed macaques is a known 
hotspot (Jones et al. 2008; Gillespie et al., 2021).
    Beyond these obvious threats to public health, the trade in wild 
macaques is a threat to wildlife conservation. Long-tailed macaques are 
listed by the IUCN as Endangered and are reported to have experienced 
an 80% decrease in their population size over the past 35 years (Koch 
Liston et al., 2024). Habitat degradation, coupled with pest control 
measures at the human interface (culling and sterilization), pose 
severe risks to the species (Valle, 2024). Moreover, trade for 
biomedical research, is likely to exacerbate this decline (Hansen et 
al., 2022). In some regions, macaque populations have declined by over 
50% in just a decade (Koch Liston et al., 2024). This not only disrupts 
ecological balance but also threatens the survival of species that are 
already vulnerable due to habitat loss and other pressures (Estrada et 
al., 2017).
    I applaud US Fish and Wildlife for their efforts to combat illegal 
wildlife trade and I encourage Congress to increase resources available 
to US Fish and Wildlife to facilitate their efforts. Further, I 
encourage research facilities making use of primate models: 1) to 
commit to end their use of wild-caught primates; 2) to carefully review 
the sourcing of primates; and 3) to actively promote and use 
alternative research strategies that do not involve capture of wild 
non-human primates.
    I hope these details have clarified the critical importance of 
ending the wild macaque trade. I welcome your questions.

References

Borsky S, Hennighausen H, Leiter A, et al. (2020). CITES and the 
zoonotic disease content in international wildlife trade. Environmental 
and Resource Economics 76:1001-1017.

CDC (2022). Letter from Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, 
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to National Association of 
State Public Health Veterinarians. Subject: Melioidosis in Imported 
Nonhuman Primates. February 22, 2022

CDC (2023). Letter from Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, 
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to the National Association 
of State Public Health Veterinarians. Subject: Tuberculosis in Imported 
Nonhuman Primates. July 24, 2023.

Conroy G (2023). How wild monkeys' laundered for science could 
undermine research. Nature 623:672-673.

Estrada A, Garber PA, Rylands AB, et al. 2017. Impending extinction 
crisis of the world's primates: Why primates matter. Science Advances 
3:1 e1600946.

Gillespie, TR, Jones KE, Dobson AP, et al. 2021. COVID-clarity demands 
unification of health and environmental policy. Global Change Biology 
27:1319-1321.

Gillespie TR, Nunn CL, Leendertz FH. 2008. Integrative approaches to 
the study of primate infectious disease: implications for biodiversity 
conservation and global health. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology 
51:53-69.

Hall CM, Busch JD, Shippy K, et al. (2015) Diverse Burkholderia Species 
Isolated from Soils in the Southern United States with No Evidence of 
B. pseudomallei. PLoS ONE 10:e0143254.

Hansen MF, Ang A, Trinh TTH, et al. (2022). Macaca fascicularis 
(amended version of 2022 assessment). The IUCN Red List of Threatened 
Species 2022: e.T12551A221666136.

Jones KE, Patel NG, Levy MA, et al. (2008). Global trends in emerging 
infectious diseases. Nature 451:990-993.

Koch Liston AL, Zhu X, Bang TV, et al. (2024). A model for the 
noninvasive, habitat-inclusive estimation of upper limit abundance for 
synanthropes, exemplified by M. fascicularis. Science Advances 
10:eadn5390.

Portacci K, Rooney AP, Dobos R. (2017). Assessing the potential for 
Burkholderia pseudomallei in the southeastern United States. Journal of 
the American Veterinary Medical Association 250:153-159.

Roberts JA, Andrews K. (2008). Nonhuman Primate Quarantine: Its 
Evolution and Practice. Institute for Laboratory Animal Research 
Journal 49:145-156.

Ruppert N, Holzner A, Hansen MF, et al. (2022). The IUCN Red List of 
Threatened Species 2022. (Gland, Switzerland: International Union for 
the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources), e.T12555A215350982.

Taetzsch SJ, Swaney EM, Gee JE, et al. (2022). Melioidosis in 
Cynomolgus Macaques (Macaca Fascicularis) Imported to the United States 
from Cambodia. Comparative Medicine. 72:394-402.

Valle, S. (2024). A Population Viability Analysis (P.V.A.) approach to 
the conservation of the Long-tailed Macaque (Macaca fascicularis). 
Apple Valley, MN: IUCN SSC Conservation Planning Specialist Group.

                                 ______
                                 

   Questions Submitted for the Record to Professor Thomas Gillespie,
                            Emory University

            Questions Submitted by Representative Stansbury

    Question 1. How does illegal poaching and smuggling of monkeys 
undermine efforts to control and prevent disease outbreaks?

    Answer. Wild mammals are the primary source of emerging viral 
pathogens of concern to humans and virus richness scales with wild 
mammal richness (Johnson et al. 2020). The highest mammalian diversity 
occurs in tropical forested areas, such as the natural range of the 
long-tailed macaque (Macaca fascicularis) (Jones et al. 2008; Olival et 
al. 2017). Furthermore, the close phylogenetic relationship between 
humans and nonhuman primates ensures that many pathogens occurring 
naturally in wild primates have minimal biological barriers to clear to 
expand their host range to humans (Gillespie et al. 2008; Calvagnic-
Spencer et al. 2012).
    Consequently, wild primates have long been monitored for zoonotic 
diseases such as yellow fever, malaria, and schistosomiasis; however, 
the urgency of this surveillance intensified dramatically following the 
global HIV/AIDS pandemic, which was definitively linked to the zoonotic 
transmission of SIV-1 from chimpanzees (Gao et al., 1999; Keele et al., 
2006). Additionally, related retroviruses (e.g., simian foamy viruses) 
and filoviruses (e.g., Ebola and Marburg viruses) are frequently 
transmitted between wild primates and humans, particularly through the 
hunting and butchering of these animals (Leroy et al., 2004; Wolfe et 
al., 2005). While HIV/AIDS and Ebola are perhaps the most well-known 
examples, they represent only a fraction of the diverse array of viral, 
bacterial, fungal, and parasitic pathogens that can be transmitted from 
nonhuman primates to humans (Gillespie et al. 2008; Strahan et al. 
2024).
    The capture and smuggling of wild monkeys have the potential to 
lead to novel human exposures to pathogens throughout the timeline from 
capture in the wild (exposure of primate trappers), through transport 
(exposure of local and international traders and transportation and 
government employees), to laboratory (exposure of researchers and 
caretakers) (Karesh et al. 2005). Further, as many pathogens can be 
spread through various bodily fluids, inappropriate disposal of such 
biohazardous materials could lead to environmental exposure to the 
human population, companion animals, livestock, and wildlife. Further, 
stress and poor handling conditions implicit in the illegal capture and 
smuggling of wild monkeys can also compromise the health of these 
animals, making them more susceptible to disease and exacerbating the 
public health risk (Vicente-Santos et al. 2023). Considering these 
risks, tremendous effort should be made to ensure that primates 
entering the United States are not of wild origin.
References
Calvignac-Spencer S, Leendertz SAJ, Gillespie TR, Leendertz FH (2012). 
Wild great apes as sentinels and sources of infectious disease. 
Clinical Microbiology and Infection. 18:521-527.

Gao F, Bailes E, Robertson DL, et al. (1999). Origin of HIV-1 in the 
chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes troglodytes). Nature. 397:436-441.

Gillespie TR, Nunn CL, Leendertz FH. (2008). Integrative approaches to 
the study of primate infectious disease: implications for biodiversity 
conservation and global health. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology. 
51:53-69.

Johnson CK, Hitchens PL, Pandit PS, et al. (2020). Global shifts in 
mammalian population trends reveal key predictors of virus spillover 
risk. Proceedings of the Royal Society B. 287:20192736.

Jones KE, Patel NG, Levy MA, et al. (2008). Global trends in emerging 
infectious diseases. Nature. 451:990-993.

Karesh WB, Cook RA, Bennett EL, Newcomb J. (2005). Wildlife trade and 
global disease emergence. Emerging Infectious Diseases. 11:1000-1002.

Keele BF, Heuverswyn F, Li YY, et al. (2006). Chimpanzee reservoirs of 
pandemic and nonpandemic HIV-1. Science. 313:523-526.

Leroy EM, Rouquet P, Formentry P, et al. (2004). Multiple ebola virus 
transmission events and rapid decline of Central African wildlife. 
Science. 303:387-390.

Olival KJ, Hosseini PR, Zambrana-Torrelio C, et al. 2017 Host and viral 
traits predict zoonotic spillover from mammals. Nature. 546:646-650.

Strahan EK, Witherbee J, Bergl R, et al. (2024). Potentially zoonotic 
enteric infections in gorillas and chimpanzees, Cameroon and Tanzania. 
Emerging Infectious Disease. 30:23-26.

Vicente-Santos A, Willink B, Nowak K, et al. (2023). Host-pathogen 
interactions under pressure: A review and meta-analysis of stress-
mediated effects on disease dynamics. Ecology Letters. 26:2003-2020.

Wolfe ND, Switzner WM, Carr JK, et al. (2005). Naturally acquired 
simian retro-virus infections in Central African hunters. Lancet. 
363:932-937.

    Question 2. What are the implications for our research on vaccines 
and other medications if wild monkeys are passed off as captive bred 
when they are not?

    Answer. The expectation of purpose-bred/captive-bred monkeys for 
use in sophisticated and expensive experiments is that the animals will 
have been raised in controlled environments that guarantee that 
veterinary care and pathogen screening have been applied from birth and 
the animal's health history, pedigree, and genetic definition are 
available to researchers. Recent scientific publications have raised 
concerns that critical research and toxicology studies are being 
impacted by the presence of unexpected viruses, bacteria, and parasites 
in macaques being used to test the safety and efficacy of drugs and 
treatments (Johnson et al., 2022; Powell et al., 2024).
    The introduction of wild-caught monkeys into US facilities also 
increases the risk for zoonotic disease transmission to laboratory 
personnel and their families. Purpose-bred monkeys are expected to be 
free of dangerous pathogens that can spill over into humans or other 
animals. A recent increase in the number of monkeys imported into the 
US infected with tuberculosis, simian retrovirus and herpes B--a 
zoonotic virus that is prevalent is wild monkeys, but should not be 
present in captive-bred monkeys--and the transmission of the deadly 
herpes B virus to laboratory workers in Asia is a strong indication 
that wild-caught monkeys are circulating in the supply chain (CDC, 
2021; Wang et al., 2021).
    Further, many of the pathogens that naturally infect wild primates 
present asymptomatically (Gillespie et al. 2008; Calvignac-Spencer et 
al. 2012). Thus, without extensive pathogen screening, infected wild 
monkeys passed off as purpose-bred could easily be enrolled in 
biomedical research (Grimm 2022). This is particularly detrimental for 
studies evaluating vaccine efficacy and safety, as the immune response 
of wild-caught monkeys is not representative of the broader population 
of captive-bred monkeys or humans due to previous or ongoing 
infections. Even asymptomatic infections in these monkeys would produce 
divergent immune response compared to captive bred monkeys, 
invalidating study results (Conroy 2023). For example, Simian T-
lymphotropic virus type 1 (STLV-1), a retrovirus commonly found in wild 
primates in Africa and Asia (Ishikawa et al. 1987; Sintasath et al. 
2009), triggers cells to release high levels of cytokines, proteins 
that regulate the immune response (Gardner et al. 2004). Thus, use of 
wild STLV-1-infected monkeys would compromise studies examining immune 
response and could lead to inaccurate conclusions about the 
effectiveness and safety of vaccines and medications.
    Simian foamy virus (SFV) is another retrovirus that occurs at high 
prevalence in Asian monkeys including long-tailed macaques (Gardner et 
al. 2004; Jones-Engel et al. 2007). SFV infection can significantly 
alter cell membrane structure and function, leading to cell fusion and 
other cytopathic effects, particularly in in vitro cell cultures, 
making it difficult to maintain cultures of cell lines from infected 
monkeys (Welsch et al. 2007; Couteaudier et al. 2022). Further, as an 
enveloped virus, SFV acquires its viral envelope by budding from the 
host cell membrane, which can disrupt cell membrane integrity within 
the host (Welsch et al. 2007). Consequently, use of wild SFV-infected 
monkeys and tissues derived from such monkeys would compromise any 
studies examining infectious disease mechanisms involving viruses 
replicating inside such impacted cells.
    Beyond viruses, parasitic worms and protozoa are abundant in wild 
primates (Gillespie 2006; Gillespie et al. 2008) and can suppress 
immune response to viral infection due to balanced antagonism between 
the components of the immune system that deal with extracellular 
parasites (type II helper T lymphocytes) vs. intracellular viral 
infections (type I helper T lymphocytes) (Desai et al. 2021). 
Consequently, use of wild parasite-infected monkeys would have the 
potential to compromise vaccine trials for viral pathogens or any 
studies examining infectious disease mechanisms involving viruses (Wait 
et al. 2020; Whitehead et al. 2022).
    These examples demonstrate the significant public health risks 
inherent in using wild primates in biomedical research and the strong 
potential of this practice to exacerbate health crises rather than 
alleviating them.
References

Calvignac-Spencer S, Leendertz SAJ, Gillespie TR, Leendertz FH (2012). 
Wild great apes as sentinels and sources of infectious disease. 
Clinical Microbiology and Infection. 18:521-527.

CDC (2021). Nonhuman primate importation and quarantine United States, 
fiscal years 2019-2021. Presentation given at the Association of 
Primate Veterinarians Annual Workshop Kansas City, MO October 15, 2021.

Conroy G. (2023). How wild monkeys' laundered for science could 
undermine research. Nature. 623:672-673.

Couteaudier M, Montange T, Njouom R, et al. (2022). Plasma antibodies 
from humans infected with zoonotic simian foamy virus do not inhibit 
cell-to-cell transmission of the virus despite binding to the surface 
of infected cells. PLoS Pathogens. 18(5):e1010470.

Desai P, Janova H, White JP, et al. (2021). Enteric helminth 
coinfection enhances host susceptibility to neurotropic flaviviruses 
via a tuft cell-IL-4 receptor signaling axis. Cell. 184(5):1214-
1231.e16.

Gardner MB, Carlos MP, Luciw PA. (2004). Simian Retroviruses. In: 
Wormser GP, editor. AIDS and other manifestations of HIV infection. 4th 
edition ed. San Diego: Elsevier Academic Press. 195-262.

Gillespie TR. (2006). Non-invasive assessment of gastro-intestinal 
parasite infections in free-ranging primates. International Journal of 
Primatology. 27:1129-1143.

Gillespie TR, Nunn CL, Leendertz FH. (2008). Integrative approaches to 
the study of primate infectious disease: implications for biodiversity 
conservation and global health. Yearbook of Physical Anthropology. 
51:53-69.

Grimm D. (2022). Indictment of monkey importers could disrupt U.S. 
research. Science. 378(6623):934-935.

Ishikawa K, Fukasawa M, Tsujimoto H, et al. (1987). Serological survey 
and virus isolation of simian T-cell leukemia/T-lymphotropic virus type 
I (STLV-I) in non-human primates in their native countries. 
International Journal of Cancer. 40(2):233-9.

Johnson AL, Keesler RI, Lewis AD, et al. (2022). Common and not-so-
common pathologic findings of the gastrointestinal tract of rhesus and 
cynomolgus macaques. Toxicologic Pathology. 50(5):638-659.

Jones-Engel L, Steinkraus KA, Murray SM, et al. (2007). Sensitive 
assays for simian foamy viruses reveal a high prevalence of infection 
in commensal, free-ranging, Asian monkeys. Journal of Virology. 
81:7330-7337.

Powell CJ, Kapeghian JC, Bernal JC, Foster JR. (2024). Hepatitis A 
virus infection in cynomolgus monkeys confounds the safety evaluation 
of a drug candidate. International Journal of Toxicology. 43(4):368-
376.

Sintasath DM, Wolfe ND, Lebreton M, et al. (2009). Simian T-
lymphotropic virus diversity among nonhuman primates, Cameroon. 
Emerging Infectious Diseases. 15(2):175-184.

Wait LF, Dobson AP, Graham AL. (2020). Do parasite infections interfere 
with immunisation? A review and meta-analysis. Vaccine. 38(35):5582-
5590.

Wang W, Qi W, Liu J, et al. (2021). First human infection case of 
monkey B virus identified in China, 2021. China CDC Weekly. 3(29):632-
3.

Welsch S, Muller B, Krausslich HG. (2007). More than one door-Budding 
of enveloped viruses through cellular membranes. FEBS Letters. 
581(11):2089-2097.

Whitehead B, Christiansen S, Ostergaard L, Nejsum P. (2022). Helminths 
and COVID-19 susceptibility, disease progression, and vaccination 
efficacy. Trends in Parasitology. 38(4): 277-279.

    Question 3. The CDC requires procedures and measures to prevent 
diseases from being introduced into the US through imported monkeys. 
What are some examples of diseases that could still spill over- or have 
already spilled over-into people from imported nonhuman primates and 
how would they get past protections currently in place? Has there been 
evidence of spillover into people from imported nonhuman primates?

    Answer. The requirement for imported non-human primates (NHPs) to 
undergo a minimum 31-day quarantine, mandated by the CDC, is based on 
the time needed to complete three consecutive tuberculin skin tests 
(TSTs) at two-week intervals. This duration also exceeds the incubation 
period for filoviruses (i.e., Ebola and Marburg viruses) and many other 
high-consequence pathogens that have previously been imported along 
with wild primates to biomedical facilities in Europe and the United 
States (Petts et al. 2021). However, other than tuberculosis, CDC does 
not currently require screening tests to be performed in apparently 
healthy non-human primates. If importers choose to screen apparently 
healthy animals for zoonotic infections during the quarantine period, 
positive results must be reported to CDC within 24 hours (CDC 2022; 
2023). Consequently, many asymptomatically carried and / or latent 
infections my go undetected. For example, multiple cases of melioidosis 
have been diagnosed in macaques imported from Cambodia (CDC, 2022). 
Melioidosis is a potentially fatal disease caused by the Tier 1 Select 
Agent Burkholderia pseudomallei, which is endemic to much of the 
geographical range of long-tailed macaques. Importantly, Taetzsch et 
al. 2022, note that, ``the incubation period of melioidosis is highly 
variable, not well defined in animals, and can exceed 31 d. One report 
described a rhesus macaque that developed melioidosis 10 y after 
importation into the US. In an unpublished case from 2015, B. 
pseudomallei was isolated from a liver abscess found at necropsy in an 
NHP that was euthanized due to persistent lethargy and dehydration 
almost a year after importation and release from CDC-mandated 
quarantine. After the case reported here, 5 additional macaques 
imported in separate shipments from Cambodia developed abscesses from 
which B. pseudomallei was isolated several months after importation 
and, in 4 of the cases, after release from CDC-mandated quarantine. 
These cases illustrate the impracticality of holding imported NHPs in 
quarantine beyond the incubation period for melioidosis. In addition, 
serology is not a useful screening tool in animals from endemic regions 
due to cross-reactivity and poor correlation with active infection or 
development of clinical signs.''
    Equally troubling, CDC data indicate that culture-confirmed 
tuberculosis in imported non-human primates was undetected from 2013-
2020 but has increased since the COVID pandemic and consequent 
cessation of monkey imports from China (CDC, 2023). Both Burkholderia 
sp. and Tuberculosis sp. can present asymptomatically in macaques and 
false negatives to approved diagnostic tests for both pathogens are not 
uncommon (CDC, 2022; 2023). Therefore, it is not surprising that 
multiple cases of TB were reported to CDC in monkeys up to two years 
post-quarantine (Yee et al. 2021). TB species isolated and reported to 
CDC from non-human primates, including M. fascicularis, included M. 
bovis, M. caprae, M. orygis, and M. tuberculosis (CDC, 2023). Both 
tuberculosis and Burkholderia are capable of infecting and causing 
disease in a broad range of mammalian hosts including humans, 
domesticated animals, and livestock and environmental conditions in the 
southern US could promote establishment of Burkholderia (Portacci et 
al. 2017; Hall et al. 2015; CDC, 2023).
    Further, a recent increase in the number of monkeys imported into 
the US infected with tuberculosis, simian retrovirus and herpes B--a 
zoonotic virus that is prevalent is wild monkeys, but should not be 
present in captive-bred monkeys--and the transmission of the deadly 
herpes B virus to laboratory workers in Asia is a strong indication 
that wild-caught monkeys are circulating in the supply chain (CDC, 
2021; Wang et al., 2021). To date, there have been 50 documented cases 
of herpes B virus infection in humans, with 21 deaths (Hu et al. 2022). 
Most of these infections were caused by direct contact with macaques 
(i.e., bites, scratches, or contact with monkey tissue or fluids) (Hu 
et al. 2022). These are just the tip of the iceberg in terms of 
zoonotic threats to the American public. Most future emerging 
infectious diseases remain to be discovered, and the tropical forest 
habitat of the long-tailed macaques is a known hotspot (Jones et al. 
2008; Calvignac-Spencer et al., 2012; Gillespie et al. 2021).
    Considering these risks, tremendous effort should be made to ensure 
that primates entering the United States are not of wild origin. In 
addition, CDC should implement broad and rigorous pathogen screening 
protocols for non-human primates imported into the United States. 
Vigilance, comprehensive screening, and strict adherence to quarantine 
and safety measures will be essential for mitigating the risks of 
disease spillover. These efforts will help safeguard public health and 
ensure that potential pathogens are effectively managed before they can 
impact both human populations and local ecosystems.
References

Calvignac-Spencer S, Leendertz SAJ, Gillespie TR, Leendertz FH (2012). 
Wild great apes as sentinels and sources of infectious disease. 
Clinical Microbiology and Infection. 18:521-527.

CDC (1993). Tuberculosis in imported nonhuman primates--United States, 
June 1990-May 1993. MMWR. Morbidity and mortality weekly report. 
42(29):572-576.

CDC (2021). Nonhuman primate importation and quarantine United States, 
fiscal years 2019-2021. Presentation given at the Association of 
Primate Veterinarians Annual Workshop Kansas City, MO October 15, 2021.

CDC (2022). Letter from Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, 
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to National Association of 
State Public Health Veterinarians. Subject: Melioidosis in Imported 
Nonhuman Primates. February 22, 2022

CDC (2023). Letter from Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, 
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to the National Association 
of State Public Health Veterinarians. Subject: Tuberculosis in Imported 
Nonhuman Primates. July 24, 2023.

Gillespie, TR, Jones KE, Dobson AP, et al. (2021). COVID-clarity 
demands unification of health and environmental policy. Global Change 
Biology 27:1319-1321.

Hall CM, Busch JD, Shippy K, et al. (2015) Diverse Burkholderia Species 
Isolated from Soils in the Southern United States with No Evidence of 
B. pseudomallei. PLoS ONE 10:e0143254.

Hu G, Du H, Liu Y, Wu G, Han J. (2022). Herpes B virus: History, 
zoonotic potential, and public health implications. Biosafety and 
Health. 4(4):213-219.

Petts D, Wren M, Nation BR, et al. (2021). A short history of 
occupational disease: 1. Laboratory-acquired infections. The Ulster 
Medical Journal. 90(1):28-31.

Portacci K, Rooney AP, Dobos R. (2017). Assessing the potential for 
Burkholderia pseudomallei in the southeastern United States. Journal of 
the American Veterinary Medical Association. 250:153-159.

Taetzsch SJ, Swaney EM, Gee JE, et al. (2022). Melioidosis in 
Cynomolgus Macaques (Macaca Fascicularis) Imported to the United States 
from Cambodia. Comparative Medicine. 72:394-402.

Wang W, Qi W, Liu J, et al. (2021). First human infection case of 
monkey B virus identified in China, 2021. China CDC Weekly. 3(29):632-
3.

Yee JL, Prongay K, Van Rompay KKA, et al. (2021). Tuberculosis 
detection in nonhuman primates is enhanced by use of testing algorithms 
that include an interferon-g release assay. American Journal of 
Veterinary Research. 83(1):15-22.

    Question 4. Many of us have not had to deal with Tuberculosis in 
our lifetimes. Can you please remind us what that entails for people 
who contract it?

    Answer. For the average American today, this question would likely 
evoke the image of a pale and fragile figure from a century ago 
coughing blood into a handkerchief, but tuberculosis (TB) is not a 
disease of the past. This bacterial infection, primarily caused by 
Mycobacterium tuberculosis, is deadliest among all infectious diseases 
today, killing more people than malaria and HIV/AIDS combined (WHO 
2023). Globally, almost 10 million people fall ill each year and 1.5 
million succumb to TB (WHO 2023).
    TB is an airborne disease that spreads easily as people cough or 
talk in proximity to others. Consequently, 25% of people globally are 
infected with TB (Houben & Dodd 2016). Although the vast majority have 
asymptomatic, latent TB; five to 10% will develop disease at some point 
without treatment (Menzies et al. 2018; Vynnycky et al. 2020). Initial 
symptoms can resemble a common cold, making TB difficult to detect. As 
the illness progresses, the victim develops a persistent cough 
producing blood or sputum, chest pain, fever, night sweats, weight 
loss, and loss of appetite (WHO 2023). If untreated, TB can cause 
severe lung damage and other systemic effects, respiratory failure, and 
death (WHO 2023).
    Successful treatment of TB is challenging, involving daily use of 
five drugs whose side effects include nausea, rashes, and jaundice for 
four months (or longer depending on severity and drug sensitivities) 
(WHO 2023). To further complicate the process, multi-drug resistance 
develops in 20% of previously treated cases of TB and drug-resistant TB 
requires extensive treatment (>2 years) with only a 50% survival rate 
(Pai and Memish 2016). Treatment of DR-TB is also very expensive 
because of the high cost of second-line TB drugs (Pai and Memish 2016).
    Laboratory-acquired tuberculosis (TB) is a serious occupational 
hazard for laboratory workers, especially those who test for TB. TB is 
caused by the bacteria Mycobacterium tuberculosis, which is primarily 
spread through the air by inhaling infectious aerosols. Laboratory 
workers can be exposed to these aerosols when handling liquids that 
contain the bacteria.
References

Houben RM, Dodd PJ. (2016). The global burden of latent tuberculosis 
infection: a re-estimation using mathematical modelling. PLoS Medicine. 
13(10):e1002152.

Menzies NA, Wolf E, Connors D, et al. (2018). Progression from latent 
infection to active disease in dynamic tuberculosis transmission 
models: a systematic review of the validity of modelling assumptions. 
Lancet Infectious Diseases. 18(8):e228-e38.

Pai M, Memish ZA. (2016). Antimicrobial resistance and the growing 
threat of drug-resistant tuberculosis. Journal of Epidemiology and 
Global Health. 6(2):45-47.

Vynnycky E, Fine PE. (2000). Lifetime risks, incubation period, and 
serial interval of tuberculosis. American Journal of Epidemiology. 
152(3):247-63.

World Health Organization (2023). Global tuberculosis report 2023. 
Geneva. Licence: CC BY-NC-SA 3.0 IGO.

    Question 5. Has the illegal importation of long-tailed macaques 
into the US for animal research impacted the conservation status of 
wild monkey populations?

    Answer. Long-tailed macaques are listed by the IUCN as Endangered 
(Ruppert et al. 2022), and have experienced an 80% decrease in their 
population size over the past 35 years (Koch Liston et al., 2024). 
Habitat degradation, coupled with pest control measures at the human 
interface (culling and sterilization), pose severe risks to the species 
(Valle 2024). Moreover, extensive trade and use in biomedical research, 
has exacerbated these declines (Hansen et al., 2022). Despite being 
perceived as overabundant in some areas, data on local populations are 
often anecdotal and inconsistent, hindering effective conservation 
efforts (Valle 2024). In some regions, macaque populations have 
declined by over 50% in just a decade (Hansen et al., 2022). This not 
only disrupts ecological balance but also threatens the survival of 
species that are already vulnerable due to habitat loss and other 
pressures (Estrada et al., 2017).
    While more data is needed to determine the extent to which illegal 
capture for biomedical research contributes to the sharp decline of 
wild long-tailed macaques, it is undoubtedly a significant factor. 
Given the regulatory and ethical constraints surrounding research on 
endangered species, it is in the best interest of stakeholders within 
the US biomedical industry and funding agencies, including the National 
Institutes of Health, to invest substantially in effective conservation 
programs for this endangered primate species. Such efforts will not 
only support the species but also align with ethical research 
practices.
References

    Estrada A, Garber PA, Rylands AB, et al. (2017). Impending 
extinction crisis of the world's primates: why primates matter. Science 
Advances. 3:e1600946.

Hansen MF, Ang A, Trinh TTH, et al. (2022). Macaca fascicularis 
(amended version of 2022 assessment). The IUCN Red List of Threatened 
Species 2022: e.T12551A221666136.

Koch Liston AL, Zhu X, Bang TV, et al. (2024). A model for the 
noninvasive, habitat-inclusive estimation of upper limit abundance for 
synanthropes, exemplified by M. fascicularis. Science Advances 
10:eadn5390.

Ruppert N, Holzner A, Hansen MF, et al. (2022). The IUCN Red List of 
Threatened Species 2022. (Gland, Switzerland: International Union for 
the Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources), e.T12555A215350982.

Valle, S. (2024). A Population Viability Analysis (P.V.A.) approach to 
the conservation of the Long-tailed Macaque (Macaca fascicularis). 
Apple Valley, MN: IUCN SSC Conservation Planning Specialist Group.

                                 ______
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you, Dr. Gillespie.
    Dr. Abee, it is your turn for 5 minutes.

STATEMENT OF CHRIS ABEE, DVM, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, UNIVERSITY OF 
         TEXAS MD ANDERSON CANCER CENTER, PAIGE, TEXAS

    Dr. Abee. Thank you, Chairman Gosar and the Committee, for 
the opportunity to testify today.
    My name is Chris Abee. I am a veterinarian and an emeritus 
professor at the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center, 
retired. For over 40 years, I studied the biology and diseases 
of non-human primates and conducted research to find better 
ways to treat and prevent both human and animal diseases. My 
testimony today aims to highlight the importance of long-tailed 
macaques and other non-human primates in biomedical research.
    Of the approximately 70,000 primates used in research 
annually, almost half are long-tailed macaques imported from 
Asia. These animals are crucial for pharmaceutical studies and 
for publicly-funded research to advance our understanding of 
disease prevention and treatment.
    We use the term ``non-human primate'' because humans are 
also primates. This phylogenetic proximity between human and 
non-human primates makes them invaluable in biomedical 
research. Their genomes are approximately 95 percent identical 
to the human genome, resulting in many body systems such as the 
immune system and the cardiovascular system, renal system, 
respiratory system all closely resembling those of humans.
    A report published last year by the National Academies of 
Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine titled, ``Non-human Primate 
Models in Biomedical Research: State of the Science and Future 
Needs,'' concluded that research requiring non-human primates 
remains essential to our country's biomedical discovery and 
translational research pipeline.
    In recent years, the COVID-19 pandemic placed enormous 
pressure on our country's domestic primate research resources. 
During this time, China, our primary source of imported 
primates, halted exports to the United States. This action 
sharply increased the cost of these animals from $5,000 to as 
much as $50,000 each, effectively pricing out scientists with 
NIH grants.
    Simultaneously, animal rights organizations have attempted 
to use the Endangered Species Act and the U.S. Fish and 
Wildlife Service to reclassify these animals as endangered 
species. Such a classification would make them unavailable for 
research. Therefore, the decision to reclassify a species as 
endangered must be based on very solid scientific data and 
taken very seriously.
    The United States leads the world in biomedical research. 
But our country's leadership is fragile. China has openly 
expressed its intention to replace the United States as the 
world leader in biomedical research. They have built primate 
research facilities with capacity far surpassing the United 
States, and have no restrictions on primate use in research.
    In conclusion, I hope I have conveyed the importance of 
non-human primates to the country's biomedical research 
programs. I urge Congress to consider directing the NIH and the 
U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to develop action plans ensuring 
both supply and availability of primates for publicly and 
privately-funded medical research. These plans should be 
developed by outside committees of experts, rather than the NIH 
and U.S. Fish and Wildlife staff. In my opinion, this will only 
happen with a congressional mandate.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.

    [The prepared statement of Dr. Abee follows:]
Prepared Statement of Christian R. Abee, D.V.M., M.S., DACLAM Professor 
        Emeritus, University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center

    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Chris 
Abee. I am an Emeritus Professor retired from the University of Texas 
MD Anderson Cancer Center. For over 40 years, I studied the biology of 
nonhuman primates and conducted research to find better ways to treat 
or prevent both human and animal diseases.
    My testimony today aims to highlight the importance of Long-Tailed 
Macaques and other nonhuman primates in biomedical research. Of the 
approximately 70,000 nonhuman primates used in research annually, 
almost half are Long-Tailed Macaques (Macaca fascicularis) imported 
from Asia. These animals are crucial for pharmaceutical studies and for 
publicly funded research to advance our understanding of disease 
prevention and treatment.
    We use the term ``nonhuman primate'' because humans are also 
primates. The phylogenetic proximity between human and nonhuman 
primates makes them invaluable in biomedical research. Their genomes 
are approximately 95% identical to the human genome, resulting in many 
body systems, such as the immune and cardiovascular systems closely 
resembling those of humans.
    A report published last year by the National Academies of Sciences, 
Engineering, and Medicine (NASEM) titled ``Nonhuman Primate Models in 
Biomedical Research: State of the Science and Future Needs'' (National 
Academies Press, 500 Fifth Street, NW, Keck 360, Washington, DC 20001; 
(800) 624-6242 or (202) 334-3313; http://www.nap.edu), concluded that 
research requiring nonhuman primates remains essential to our country's 
biomedical discovery and translational research pipeline.
    In recent years, the COVID-19 pandemic placed enormous pressure on 
our country's domestic primate research resources. During this time, 
China, our primary source of imported primates, halted exports to the 
U.S. This action sharply increased the cost of these animals from 
$5,000 to as much as $50,000 each, effectively pricing out scientists 
with NIH grants.
    Simultaneously, animal rights organizations have attempted to use 
the Endangered Species Act and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to 
reclassify these animals as endangered species. Such a classification 
would make them unavailable for research. Therefore, the decision to 
reclassify a species as endangered must be based on solid scientific 
data and taken very seriously.
    The U.S. leads the world in biomedical research, but our country's 
leadership is fragile. China has openly expressed its intention to 
replace the U.S. as the world leader in biomedical research. They have 
built primate research centers with capacity surpassing the U.S. and 
have no restrictions on primate use in research.
    In conclusion, I hope I have conveyed the importance of nonhuman 
primates to our country's biomedical research programs. I urge Congress 
to consider directing the NIH and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to 
develop action plans ensuring both supply and availability of primates 
for publicly and privately funded medical research. These plans should 
be developed by outside committees of experts rather than NIH and USFWS 
staff. In my opinion, this will only happen with a Congressional 
mandate.

                                 ______
                                 

            Questions Submitted for the Record to Chris Abee

              Questions Submitted by Representative Gosar

    Question 1. Is the U.S. currently experiencing a shortage of 
nonhuman primates for research?

    Answer. Yes, the U.S. is currently experiencing a critical shortage 
of nonhuman primates for research. This shortage has worsened over the 
past 15 years due to two main factors: inadequate funding from the 
National Institutes of Health (NIH) for domestic research resources and 
continued reliance on imported Long-Tailed macaques from Asian 
countries by pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies.
    The expansion of domestic primate breeding research resources could 
potentially alleviate or eventually eliminate this shortage. However, 
this would require the development of national plans for nonhuman 
primate research resources by both the government and the private 
sector.
    Several reports over the last six years have warned the NIH's 
Office of Research Infrastructure Programs (ORIP) about this critical 
shortage. Unfortunately, ORIP's response to these warnings has been 
inadequate.

    These reports include:

     https://orip.nih.gov/about-orip/research-highlights/
            nonhuman-primate-evaluation-and-analysis-part-1-analysis-
            future-demand-and

     https://orip.nih.gov/about-orip/research-highlights/
            nonhuman-primate-evaluation-and-analysis-part-2-report-
            expert-panel-forum

     https://orip.nih.gov/sites/default/files/NHP-Evaluation-
            and-Analysis-Final-Report-Revised-508.pdf

     https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK593002/

    These reports provide detailed information on the current situation 
and potential strategies to address the shortage of nonhuman primates 
for research in the United States.

    Question 2. You mention China in your testimony--what could be the 
consequences of China dominating this sector? How important is it for 
the US to counteract that dominance?

    Answer. China's potential domination of the nonhuman primate 
research sector poses significant risks to the United States. The U.S. 
dependence on China for critical medical research resources puts the 
country in a vulnerable position, as demonstrated during the COVID-19 
pandemic when China halted exports of Long-Tailed macaques essential 
for vaccine and medicine development. This sudden elimination of 
research resources threatened U.S. public health, highlighting the 
dangers of relying on a single foreign source for crucial materials. If 
the U.S. relinquishes its leadership role in biomedical research, China 
would likely determine global research priorities, significantly 
impacting future medical advancements. The National Academies of 
Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine's 2023 report concluded that 
reliance on China and other Asian countries for nonhuman primates is 
unsustainable and threatens U.S. medical research. Maintaining U.S. 
leadership in this field is crucial for national security, public 
health, and scientific advancement, making it essential to counteract 
China's dominance and ensure the continued progress and independence of 
U.S. medical research.

    Question 3. How prepared is the U.S. for the next pandemic?

    Answer. The U.S. is not adequately prepared for the next pandemic 
due to two critical weaknesses in national research resources for 
nonhuman primates. The first weakness is the inadequate support 
provided by the NIH's Office of Research Infrastructure Programs 
(ORIP). NIH grant support is crucial for developing new medicines and 
vaccines, as demonstrated by COVID-19 treatments. Multiple reports 
(2018, 2023, 2024) have highlighted the shortage of nonhuman primates, 
limiting research on public health threats. Despite these reports, NIH-
ORIP has failed to develop an action plan to expand nonhuman primate 
research resources. In fact, inflation-adjusted NIH support for 
national primate research resources has decreased over the past 15 
years. This lack of action suggests either insufficient expertise and/
or interest in supporting NIH research grants that require nonhuman 
primates.
    The second weakness facing the U.S. is pharmaceutical and 
biotechnology companies' reliance on Asian countries for nonhuman 
primates. These companies require nonhuman primates to test the safety 
and efficacy of new medicines, and most of these animals are imported 
from Asian countries. A 2023 report by the National Academies of 
Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine concluded that this reliance is 
unsustainable and threatens U.S. biomedical research. This issue could 
be addressed through public/private partnerships to develop domestic 
breeding resources, eventually eliminating dependence on Asian 
countries. These weaknesses significantly hinder the U.S.'s ability to 
respond effectively to future pandemics.

            Questions Submitted by Representative Stansbury

    Question 1. Do you think it is acceptable to use wild macaques for 
research purposes?

    Answer. I do not think it is acceptable to use illegally obtained 
wild macaques for research purposes, nor do I recommend the use of 
wild-born macaques. Animals captured from the wild have unknown health 
histories, ages, genetic backgrounds, and social histories. This lack 
of background information may lead to flawed research results. 
Furthermore, research using wild macaques might require more animals 
due to variability caused by differences in ages, genetic background, 
and disease history. It's worth noting that if the U.S. Fish and 
Wildlife Service continues to deny importation of captive-bred macaques 
from countries like Cambodia, it inadvertently forces researchers to 
rely more heavily on legally obtained wild macaques, which is not ideal 
for the reasons mentioned above. This situation underscores the 
importance of developing sustainable and ethical sources of these 
animals, preferable through captive breeding programs that can provide 
animals with known backgrounds and histories.

                                 ______
                                 

    Dr. Gosar. Thank you very much, Dr. Abee.
    It is just you and me, so you are up.
    The Ranking Member is recognized for her 5 minutes.
    Ms. Stansbury. All right. Thank you very much, and thank 
you to our witnesses for being here
    Mr. Pelletier, is that the correct pronunciation of your 
name?
    Mr. Pelletier. Yes, it is.
    Ms. Stansbury. I apologize.
    Mr. Pelletier. It is good enough.
    Ms. Stansbury. I just wanted to clarify your role here 
today. You mentioned in your testimony that you are here on 
behalf of your client, Worldwide Primates. Is that correct?
    Mr. Pelletier. That is correct.
    Ms. Stansbury. And you are here in that formal capacity of 
representing that person as your client, correct?
    Mr. Pelletier. I am, yes.
    Ms. Stansbury. Yes. And as a family-owned business owned by 
a Mr. Matthew Block. Is that correct?
    Mr. Pelletier. No it is not, it is owned by Ira Block.
    Ms. Stansbury. Oh, Ira Block.
    Mr. Pelletier. Matthew Block's son.
    Ms. Stansbury. But Matt Block is a former CEO, manager, 
family owner. And just to be clear, Mr. Block was convicted and 
spent 13 months in prison for smuggling baby orangutans. 
Correct?
    Mr. Pelletier. No, he wasn't. He was convicted in 1990. He 
pled guilty almost 25 years ago, if not more, for participating 
in a scheme to submit false paperwork for baby orangutans 
entering Russia, yes.
    Ms. Stansbury. So, for the smuggling of primates into 
another country using a third party.
    Mr. Pelletier. Correct.
    Ms. Stansbury. I appreciate that clarification. I want to 
turn to our witness who is here with us from Emory.
    One of the things that I find so strange about this whole 
network of illegal smuggling, and I think our last witness 
really highlighted the worldwide shortages of course causing 
challenges for research, and we understand that, but it is the 
actual implications for research.
    So, I know, Dr. Gillespie, you are an expert in zoonotics. 
If wild versus laboratory-raised animals are used in research, 
could it alter the outcomes of tests and trials of drugs?
    Dr. Gillespie. Ranking Member Stansbury, it absolutely can. 
The fact that many pathogens can modify the effect of immune 
function means that you can have confounding results where it 
is almost impossible, if not impossible, to distinguish between 
the effect of pre-existing infections versus a vaccine-mounted 
response for a test of that nature or if you are purposefully 
infecting to look at the impacts of a given pathogen.
    Ms. Stansbury. So, you would want to, and again, I think I 
made my position clear in the first panel that I support 
alternatives to animal testing. But strictly from a scientific 
and medical standpoint, you want controls in a study to make 
sure that the animals that you are conducting trials and tests 
on, that you understand their provenance, where they came from 
so that you can control for factors that might affect the 
outcome of that drug trial is essentially what we are saying, 
right?
    And the thing that I guess I find strange about the sort of 
cover-up in these international animal trafficking situations 
and the complicity of American-based companies and research 
institutions is wouldn't you want animals that have a clear 
provenance because it could affect the outcome of your medical 
trials? Is that correct?
    Dr. Gillespie. Ranking Member Stansbury, absolutely. It is 
a critical issue for the biosecurity of our medical research, 
as well as the biosecurity of our populations and our animal 
production for agriculture, as well.
    Ms. Stansbury. So, why do you think that American-based 
research institutions are not pushing for clear enforcement of 
these regulations?
    Why are they not being more detailed in their due 
diligence?
    And why are they purchasing from companies that may be 
U.S.-based or foreign-based that are potentially bringing in 
smuggled animals?
    Dr. Gillespie. Ranking Member Stansbury, the specifics are 
beyond my expertise. But as an individual, I would assume that 
it is because greater profits can be made, or there is ability 
to get around the rules that are in place.
    Ms. Stansbury. Well, I think I am asking more about U.S.-
based institutions. And I am a bit of a recovering academic 
myself, though certainly not in this field. I guess what I am 
trying to drive at is that there is an onus on American 
institutions and research institutions, especially those funded 
by the U.S. Government, to make sure that we are doing our due 
diligence to make sure that any kind of tests that we conduct 
are being done with full legality, whether that is 
international treaties, using animals that are appropriately 
sourced. And that it also falls incumbent on us in the United 
States to make sure that we are doing that, as well.
    And with that, I will yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. Thank you.
    Dr. Clemons, can you clarify the provenance issues in your 
expertise in working with these institutions? Can you tell us a 
little bit about that?
    Dr. Clemons. Thank you for the question. I have worked in 
the private sector my entire career for a contract research 
organization and for a major pharmaceutical company. As part of 
my role there, I was tasked with looking into the background of 
animals, the suppliers that we were doing business with as 
companies, and looking into the welfare of animals. 
Specifically, welfare of the animals was the primary charge as 
my veterinary role.
    So, I looked at much documentation related to these 
animals, their history of work, and as I said in my statement 
before, I researched these facilities and visited most of them 
during the course of my career. I have been to several 
countries, looking at animals, and found all of them that I was 
able to look at to be operating in good condition, with clarity 
in their paperwork and clarity in their interactions with us.
    It was clearly in the interests of my organizations to have 
ethically-obtained animals.
    Dr. Gosar. I mean, it seems to me if the macaques are such 
a big deal here, that we would have our own supply. What would 
it take for the United States to have their own supply? Or do 
you have to breed more different genetics?
    Dr. Clemons. Yes, thank you for that question, as well.
    I think there is an interest in having more of a domestic 
supply in the United States. I have certainly seen that. But 
there are several factors involved. One is that it would take a 
tremendous number of animals to produce what is needed for 
research. Just to take the number 20,000, for instance, as an 
example of annual use, which is not, by the way, anywhere close 
to what the actual need is in the United States, this would 
still require a colony of approximately 130,000 breeders, 
adolescents, and young animals being reared in order to produce 
20,000 animals per year.
    Now, that also requires many years of development for us to 
create a facility of that size. It is very expensive. It is 
going to take a lot of importation of breeding animals. Over 
time, I expect this would take many years, as there would not 
be enough breeder animals imported in one go to get that 
started.
    The last factor I might want to mention here is that there 
have been numerous attempts by companies to begin major 
breeding colonies, and animal rights organizations have 
consistently worked to block the development and building of 
those facilities.
    Dr. Gosar. I want to ask the question to you and Dr. Abee.
    We are talking about diseases like dementia. We are talking 
about MS, a lot of different things possible. Can you give me 
an idea if there is anything on the horizon that AI or 
synthetic human cells can actually bust some of these tests 
with? What is on the future?
    Dr. Clemons. What is in the future? Well, what we have 
right now is some very promising technology. It is in early 
stage.
    To use one example, for instance, the organ-on-a-chip gets 
a lot of attention, and it should. It is a promising 
technology. But what it is is one very, very small piece of 
tissue from one specific individual person or animal being 
tested. It does not look at the complex interaction of multiple 
organ systems in a complex living being. So, this is very 
promising. It is a good adjunct technology that is being used 
right now. It may become much more prominent in the future, but 
for now it is not mature science and it does not replace the 
need for complex species.
    Dr. Gosar. Dr. Abee?
    Dr. Abee. I referenced the National Academies report that 
was published last year. I had the opportunity to serve on that 
consensus committee that wrote that report. And the Committee 
included a number of scientists that were expert in developing 
new approach methodologies. The committee was composed of 
scientists who work with animals and scientists that work to 
develop new approach methodologies, and the consensus was that 
the new approach methodologies are, as Dr. Clemons said, not 
mature enough to meet all of our needs.
    In some cases, we are able to use non-animal approaches, 
and wherever we can we do. But the need for primates, and this 
was a consensus, unanimous, of the entire committee, was that 
we absolutely have to have non-human primates for the 
foreseeable future.
    And one surprise to me in serving on that committee is that 
scientists working on new approach methods said we need the 
primates in order to validate the new approaches that we are 
developing.
    Dr. Gosar. I think you can hold those thoughts because I am 
going to come back. We will do a second round. I am going to go 
to the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Collins, for his 5 minutes.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Pelletier, did I pronounce that right?
    Mr. Pelletier. Sure. That is good enough, thank you.
    Mr. Collins. I am a South Georgia boy, we don't have too 
many, once you get past Jones, it gets a little tough.
    [Laughter.]
    Mr. Collins. Given your expertise in this case and your 
experience at the Department of Justice, you have a unique 
perspective on this matter. In your testimony, you highlighted 
some of the illegal and outrageous activities carried out by 
the Service and its paid informant in this matter. Can you 
quickly summarize some of the most problematic actions taken by 
the Service during this investigation?
    Mr. Pelletier. Yes, I can. Congressman, thank you for the 
question.
    The first thing I would tell you is that they opened the 
investigation in 2017, called it ``Operation Long Tail 
Liberation.'' They had spoken with the Chinese national and he 
told them he had no information with respect to any wildlife 
being shipped as wild caught to the United States. Yet, they 
opened the investigation called Operation Long Tail Liberation.
    And No. 2, he was in it for the money. As a prosecutor, I 
know that those witnesses that are in it for the money 
specifically have to be supervised very well. In this case, the 
whole case was about tracing the monkeys to the United States 
and proving they were wild caught. They couldn't do that. As a 
matter of fact, the Chinese national didn't even attempt to 
trace the animals until he came to the United States in 2022 
and was paid $100,000. And then he started tracing the monkeys.
    Mr. Collins. So, given that lack of evidence or whatever 
you want to call it, what do you think motivated the DOJ and 
the Service to go forward with this ill-fated trial?
    Mr. Pelletier. It is very clear what motivated them. They 
were trying to do a stunt to absolutely stop the trade. It is 
not about conservation; it is about eradication of this trade. 
PETA and the Department of Justice and Fish and Wildlife 
Service are in cahoots, and were in cahoots during this whole 
trial. And we know that because the Fish and Wildlife was 
sharing secretly information with PETA so they could post it on 
their website.
    Mr. Collins. And in your testimony, you referenced PETA, 
Cruelty Free International, as well as actions taken by the 
Service to restrict trade on non-human primates that are really 
crippling the domestic industry.
    Can you elaborate on the actions the Service has taken that 
have and are having such a negative effect on our domestic 
industry?
    Mr. Pelletier. Yes, I mean, my expertise only goes so far 
in that area. But what I can absolutely tell you is they 
avoided using CITES here. For 5 years they conducted this 
``investigation,'' and continued to allow 20,000 or more NHPs 
into the United States that Fish and Wildlife Service tells us 
are wild caught. Why would you do that when there is an 
international treaty that perfectly addresses any concerns in 
that arena? They just let them in.
    And then we have the Fish and Wildlife Service asking PETA 
if they can find a place for these 1,000 monkeys that we have 
talked about before they even unsealed the indictment. So, they 
are talking about actually seizing monkeys and stopping the 
monkeys after they let them into the United States, No. 1.
    But No. 2, they are discussing it before the indictment is 
unsealed. And those monkeys did not come from the Vanny farm. 
So, it is a level of coordination that is, to me, despicable, 
No. 1, because it is not the mission of the Fish and Wildlife 
Service to eradicate this trade, but it has basically stopped 
the trade from Cambodia of any NHPs, and they were the largest 
source for medical research.
    Mr. Collins. So, I have just heard you state that they have 
taken sides with the private sector, these radical animal 
groups, to prevent the U.S. Government mandated and essential 
commerce of non-human primates for important domestic 
bioscience and vaccine research programs.
    As a Federal prosecutor and as well as a private sector 
litigator, what are your thoughts on how to really address this 
problem?
    Mr. Pelletier. Well, I think there are a couple of things 
that need to be done here.
    One is I think there has to be a recognition by Fish and 
Wildlife Service that there is a problem here. I think if you 
talk to any of these doctors on the panel, particularly Dr. 
Clemons and Dr. Abee, they can tell you that in their business, 
the Fish and Wildlife Service has always been hostile to the 
trade and to research. Always. So, I think there needs to be a 
change in that dynamic.
    I also think that the conduct here that I have outlined in 
my statement needs to be referred to the IG and/or to OPR. I 
think that that is it.
    And then finally, what I would love is an ability for an 
honest broker at Fish and Wildlife Service, to be able to talk 
with the experts in the arena, the people who import the 
monkeys. If there is a problem, they know more than anybody, 
and they should be talking with us, not talking to PETA about 
these issues.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you.
    Dr. Gosar. We are doing a second round.
    Mr. Collins. OK, all right. I am hard of hearing, you know.
    Mr. Abee, could you please explain why the long-tailed 
macaque is the most needed non-human primate for pharmaceutical 
studies?
    Dr. Abee. That species of primate has been used for many, 
many years, which means that we have carried out many, many 
studies on these animals, so they are very highly 
characterized. That means that when we use them in a research 
project and we see anything unusual in the animals in the 
research project, we can determine more precisely why that has 
occurred if it is a test article or it is an experimental 
manipulation.
    So, it is the large amount of background data that we have 
on this species that make them very important.
    Mr. Collins. Can you think of any medical treatments we 
would not have today if primates were not available for 
research?
    Dr. Abee. Almost every major drug that we use today and 
that has been developed over the last 20 to 30 years, at some 
stage in the process of developing that drug, non-human 
primates were needed.
    Very often it is in the later stages, what we call the 
translational research stages, where we are attempting to 
translate what we have found, and translate it into whether it 
would be applicable to humans. Non-human primates are 
particularly good at that.
    This is very important in large molecule therapeutics, 
which are extremely important today. These drugs such as Humira 
are monoclonal antibodies that were developed, and primates 
helped us develop those. And these drugs are used in all of the 
autoimmune diseases which are growing in our country. If you 
look at the statistics, autoimmune disease is becoming 
epidemic.
    Mr. Collins. So, if PETA and other animal rights groups 
received their wish and primates were banned from research and 
testing, what will happen?
    Dr. Abee. Well, in biomedical research what would happen is 
that the development of new therapies, new drugs, new ways to 
treat disease would either be delayed or would never occur.
    In biomedical research, I like to say that time is lives. 
When we were developing the COVID-19 vaccine very, very 
rapidly, we could do the arithmetic without the vaccine. We 
knew how many people were dying, and with the vaccine we knew 
we could reduce it. The development of that vaccine quickly, 
and non-human primates were involved, saved many, many lives.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. I want to go back to one quick 
thing.
    Mr. Pelletier, did the government promise the court it 
would be able to trace the non-human primates delivered by Mr. 
Kry to the United States to support all the charges in the 
indictment?
    Mr. Pelletier. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, it did. What 
was even more unusual, it didn't do it.
    And what happened is the government themselves moved to 
dismiss five of the charges when they weren't able to prove it. 
And as a prosecutor for 25 years, I have never seen anything 
like that. They promised and didn't fulfill. That is unusual.
    Mr. Collins. I want to say that, too. So, the government 
did promise the court, but then they didn't deliver.
    Mr. Pelletier. That is correct.
    Mr. Collins. All right, thank you.
    Mr. Chair, that is all I have. I yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. The gentlewoman from New Mexico, Ms. Stansbury, 
you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Abee or Abee?
    Dr. Abee. Abee.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. Did I hear you say a few moments 
ago that you had participated in a National Academies panel?
    Dr. Abee. Yes, I served on their consensus committee in 
preparing that report.
    Ms. Stansbury. Thank you. So, you recognize the importance 
of science-based organizations in making sure that we have the 
most synthesized, up-to-date science in decision-making, 
obviously, because you are participating in one of the most 
important bodies that does that.
    And are you familiar with the IUCN, which is the 
international body that makes recommendations regarding 
ecosystems and animals?
    Dr. Abee. I know of IUCN. I am certainly not an expert on 
the organization.
    Ms. Stansbury. Definitely. Well, I will just say that there 
is a direct analogy to the National Academies, because the IUCN 
is an advisory board that is a science-based organization that 
makes recommendations to UN bodies around the state of the 
science for the protection of animals and ecosystems. So, it is 
science-based.
    And the reason why I am bringing this up is that I want to 
read to you all the consensus science about the status of long-
tailed macaques. And this comes out of PubMed, which is put out 
by the National Institutes of Health: ``In 2022 long-tailed 
macaques, a once ubiquitous primate species, was elevated to 
endangered on the International Union for Conservation of 
Nature Red List of Threatened Species.'' That is the IUCN. 
``And in 2023, recognizing that long-tailed macaque is 
threatened by multiple factors, including declining native 
habitats across Southeast Asia, over-utilization for 
scientific, commercial, and recreational purposes, inadequate 
regulatory mechanisms, and culling due to human macaque 
conflict, a petition for rulemaking was submitted to the U.S. 
Fish and Wildlife Service to add the species to the U.S. 
Endangered Species Act.''
    The reason why I wanted to read this is that there has been 
a lot of conversation in this hearing this morning arguing that 
the reason why Fish and Wildlife is trying to regulate primate 
trafficking is because of influence from animal rights 
organizations. But actually, it is science. The science says 
that these animals are declining, and that they have declined 
precipitously over the last several years in the wild. And it 
is not just the United States, it is international 
organizations that have taken action to protect these animals. 
And we are often, frankly, trailing the international community 
around the protection of wildlife and ecosystems.
    And it is illegal to traffic in wild caught animals. We 
understand from the conversation this morning that sourcing is 
a problem. There are not sufficient animals that are bred in 
captivity, as was just shared by one of our panelists, to meet 
the demand in the U.S. biomedical community. But it is illegal 
to traffic in wild caught animals. And the reason is because 
they are precipitously declining because of these four factors, 
which the consensus of our scientific community has spoken loud 
and clear on this.
    So, I just want folks to understand that is what we are 
talking about here. This is why Fish and Wildlife is regulating 
illegal, illicit trafficking in these animals. And with that, I 
yield back.
    Dr. Gosar. I thank the gentlewoman.
    Dr. Abee, you mentioned China in your testimony. What would 
be the consequences to the United States and the world if China 
dominated this sector?
    Dr. Abee. Well, what has happened is that China has invited 
American scientists to come to China to do their research. They 
have also offered to carry out what are called regulated 
studies, studies that have to be done under the Good Laboratory 
Practices Act in order for those studies to be recognized by 
the FDA when developing a drug.
    But if you do a regulated study at a test facility in 
China, you have to provide what is called a ``certificate of 
analysis'' to the test facility. You are forfeiting your 
intellectual property when you do that. They are supposed to 
keep it confidential, but there is great concern that that 
intellectual property is in jeopardy when a test facility in 
China carries out the research.
    So with that, it means that we would be forfeiting the 
development of new drugs in the United States in order that it 
be carried out in China, where the resources----
    Dr. Gosar. We saw it happen with COVID. That came from 
China, so it is definitely a problem.
    Dr. Abee. Well, it is definitely a problem, yes. And I 
think that if our research programs, in order to carry out the 
research, is moved to China, that we will be jeopardizing 
progress in biomedical research because the United States is 
the world leader in that research right now.
    Dr. Gosar. I want to get back to these populations. If it 
is so important, we ought to be breeding these populations. So, 
if you were to design this, it is going to cost money, 
regardless. It seems like we are stuck here. What kind of 
population would you need, and what kind of inferences from 
outside sources would you have so that you had additional 
genetic material helping you breed this captive population?
    Dr. Abee. Well, we would need to build on the primate 
resources that we have in this country right now, both public 
and private.
    The National Institutes of Health funds seven national 
primate research centers and a number of national research 
resources of non-human primates. But over the years, all of 
these centers have been underfunded. The funding from NIH has 
not kept up with inflation.
    Dr. Gosar. So, let me ask you a question. I am going to 
stop you right there.
    Why not the people that utilize these primates for their 
benefit, because you have this Big Pharma that is getting huge 
revenues, why can't they pay part of this aspect?
    Dr. Abee. Well, what has happened up until very recent 
years is that China provided these animals at a very low cost, 
a lower cost than what we could produce them in the United 
States.
    Dr. Gosar. But couldn't you incentivize that program?
    It seems to me we are living inside a box, and we are not 
looking outside the box for alternatives. It seems to me like a 
collaboration. We are $35.6 trillion in debt, to be honest now, 
and we are looking at expenditures more. It seems like we need 
the private sector to step up here, and it would be nice to see 
some type of collaboration here so it is not all the government 
paying money here. Do you see what I am talking about?
    Dr. Abee. Absolutely. I think there should be a public-
private partnership. But the publicly-funded primate resources 
are extremely important, as well, because they serve publicly-
funded research programs, NIH grants.
    Dr. Gosar. Oh, I see the whole point there. That is my 
question about additional genetic material mass coming into 
that population.
    Mr. Pelletier, do you think it would be very appropriate 
for Congress to ask all NGOs, if they take one penny from the 
Federal Government, they have to disclose all their resources 
and where they come from?
    Mr. Pelletier. Yes, I think that it would be very 
appropriate, particularly finding out all of their 
communications with the Fish and Wildlife Service.
    And if I might, I would say, to correct something the 
Ranking Member said, as it relates to macaques there is no 
government in the world on God's green Earth, including the 
United States, which recognizes macaques as endangered in any 
way, No. 1.
    No. 2, wild-caughts are absolutely permitted to be imported 
into the United States if, in fact, they are properly declared 
as wild caught on the importation papers.
    And No. 3, IUCN has agreed that they are re-evaluating 
their finding of endangered. So, what the actions of Fish and 
Wildlife Service have done here have actually forced more wild 
caught to be shipped to the United States because we can't get 
captive bred out of Cambodia. So, I would just like to clarify 
that.
    Dr. Gosar. Well, the other question I want to answer is how 
do you stop this? There has to be consequences for actions. 
Somebody has to be accountable for it. So, that is the biggest 
key. It starts with justice.
    I want to thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony 
and the Members for their questions.
    The members of the Committee may have additional questions 
for you, and we ask that you respond to these in writing. Under 
Committee Rule 3, members of the Committee must submit 
questions to the Subcommittee Clerk by 5 p.m. on Friday, 
September 13. The hearing record will be held open for 10 
business days for these responses.
    I want to thank everybody. It was a very energetic and 
entertaining conversation. With that, if there is no further 
business, the Subcommittee is adjourned.

    [Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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