[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE FISCAL YEAR 2025 BUDGET REQUEST FOR
NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST, NORTH
AFRICA, AND CENTRAL ASIA
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
May 23, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-107
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov, http://docs.house.gov,
or http://www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-741PDF WASHINGTON : 2026
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COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey GREGORY MEEKS, New York, Ranking
JOE WILSON, South Carolina Member
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania BRAD SHERMAN, California
DARRELL ISSA, California GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
ANN WAGNER, Missouri WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
BRIAN MAST, Florida GABE AMO, Rhode Island
KEN BUCK, Colorado AMI BERA, California
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MARK E. GREEN, Tennessee DINA TITUS, Nevada
ANDY BARR, Kentucky TED LIEU, California
RONNY JACKSON, Texas SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
YOUNG KIM, California DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida COLIN ALLRED, Texas
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan ANDY KIM, New Jersey
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, SARA JACOBS, California
American Samoa KATHY MANNING, North Carolina
FRENCH HILL, Arkansas SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK,
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio Florida
JIM BAIRD, Indiana GREG STANTON, Arizona
MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
THOMAS KEAN, Jr., New Jersey JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York JONATHAN JACKSON, Illinois
CORY MILLS, Florida SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia JIM COSTA, California
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas JASON CROW, Colorado
JOHN JAMES, Michigan BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas
Brenda Shields, Majority Staff Director
Sophia Lafargue, Minority Staff Director
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SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE MIDDLE EAST, NORTH AFRICA, AND CENTRAL ASIA
JOE WILSON, South Carolina, Chairman
BRIAN MAST, Florida DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota, Ranking
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee Member
RONNY JACKSON, Texas BRAD SHERMAN, California
JIM BAIRD, Indiana GERALD CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York KATHY MANNING, North Carolina
RICH MCCORMICK, Georgia GABRIEL AMO, Rhode Island
Gabriella Zach Subcommittee Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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REPRESENTATIVES
Page
Opening Statement of Subcommittee Chairman Joe Wilson............ 1
Opening Statement of Subcommittee Ranking Member Dean Phillips... 3
WITNESSES
Statement of Hon. Barbara A. Leaf, Assistant Secretary, Bureau of
Near Eastern Affairs, U.S. Department of State................. 5
Prepared Statement............................................. 8
Statement of Jeanne Pryor, Deputy Assistant Administrator, Middle
East Bureau, U.S. Agency for International Development......... 16
Prepared Statement............................................. 18
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 48
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 50
Hearing Attendance............................................... 51
Materials for the Record
Material for the record, Tower Attack 22 Jordan.................. 52
THE FISCAL YEAR 2025 BUDGET REQUEST FOR NEAR EASTERN AFFAIRS
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Thursday, May 23, 2024
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Middle East, North Africa and
Central Asia,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:37 a.m., in
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joe Wilson
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Wilson. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome and good morning.
The subcommittee on the Middle East, North Africa, and Central
Asia of the Foreign Affairs Committee will come to order. The
audience is reminded that any disruptions will result upon a
gavel of the suspension of anyone who disrupts the meeting, and
the Capitol Police will remove anyone who disrupts the meeting.
With that in mind, the purpose of the hearing is to discuss
the President's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request for this State
Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs and USAID which we
all appreciate both bipartisan. With this in mind, I now
recognize myself for an opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SUBCOMMITTEE CHAIRMAN JOE WILSON
The last few years have seen monumental events and shifts
in the Middle East and North Africa. The historic Abraham
Accords were a tremendous accomplishment by the Trump
administration toward a stable and prosperous Middle East. With
our allies and partners, there was tremendous progress toward
normalization and extraordinary prosperity. Those partnerships
have never been more critical.
On October 7th, 2023, the world watched as Iranian
terrorist puppet Hamas murderously slaughtered Israeli
citizens. Hamas perpetrated the largest single attack on the
Jewish people since the Holocaust. War Criminal Putin, the
Chinese Communist Party, and the terrorist regime in Tehran
have escalated their common goals, the destruction of democracy
around the world.
This new axis of evil has worked to undermine global
security by stealing critical natural resources, disrupting
global supply chains. And as we've seen by the Houthi attacks
of shipping lanes, they face sadly minimal consequences. Yet
this administration has not shown the necessary leadership to
get the world through the crisis, much less reestablish
deterrence which is so critical of our adversaries.
Sadly, the President pausing at least one and threatening
to delay more critical weapons shipments to Israel is a sad
example. Instead of insuring Israel has the tools it needs to
eliminate the threat of the Hamas terrorist, this
administration prioritized the construction of an unnecessary
pier in Gaza that according to the Department of Defense isn't
even helping aid the people in need. America needs a clear and
consistent policy from the United States to counter the Iranian
backed terrorist puppets in their proliferation of missiles and
weaponized drones.
This policy must include strengthening regional air and
maritime defense cooperation and fulfilling arms sales with
related security agreements without delay to ensure our
partners' and allies' security needs are fully met. The
intentions of Hamas are extremely clear. They made it very
clear in the goals of their charter of August 18, 1988.
And I quote Article 7, ``The day of judgment will not come
until the Muslims fight the Jews, killing the Jews. Then the
Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees
will result into the last Jew behind a rock. Come and kill
him,'' end of quote.
This administration has led countries across the region to
question America's longtime commitments to the region. The
United States leadership vacuum was publicly underscored by the
recent murder of three American troops, Sergeant William Jerome
Rivers, Specialist Kennedy Ladon Sanders, and Specialist Riona
Alexandra Moffet. When the Iranian puppet Hezbollah killed
American citizens, sadly the administration chose to
halfheartedly, if at all, to respond.
And I particularly identify these were Army Reservists from
my neighboring State of Georgia. And I served in the Reserve
myself. It's just horrifying to think that three persons were
killed by Hezbollah and 40 others were injured.
The American people deserve better than this when we
continue the pattern of the administration. And just this week,
I was grateful to have a phone call with a very dedicated and
dynamic family of the late Dr. Majd Kamalmaz. Dr. Kamalmaz was
an American psychologist who was murdered by the criminal Assad
regime in Syria after being kidnaped by the regime in 2017.
This administration has not made any statement of
condolence or condemnation of the criminal Assad regime for
killing a Syrian American citizen. But sadly, the
administration did issue condolences for Abraham Raisi, the
Butcher of Tehran who was singlehandedly responsible for the
murder of tens of thousands of Iranian civilians. This
juxtaposition clearly shows where the administration has chosen
to side unfortunately with dictators.
It's time to reevaluate the U.S. relationship with Iraq.
The Iraqi Popular Mobilization Forces are working against the
best interest to the United States and democracy. I am grateful
to have had an amendment to the NDAA yesterday on this topic,
designating a report on the malign influence of the PMF and
their collaboration with the regime in Tehran.
I am grateful that my two oldest sons, Allen and Addison,
have served in Iraq to liberate the people of Iraq. And so I
have, again, a special interest for the people of Iraq that
they have a bright future. And it can't be with the Iranian
influence. Finally, the United States continues to be the most
generous nation in the world with regard to international aid.
However, the weaponization of international aid through
diversion by dictators and terrorists is a widespread problem
that must be confronted. Steps must be taken to ensure aid is
not diverted to dictators and reaches organizations such as the
White Helmets which actually work to help the people of Syria.
I'm grateful that my amendment to the National Defense
Authorization Act yesterday passed unanimously to prevent
normalization of the mass murder Assad.
The world is currently engaged in a global conflict that we
did not choose. Dictators with rule of gun on one side
beginning with the invasion, February 24, 2022, by war criminal
Putin and democracy and rule of law on the other. Today, all
eyes are on the Middle East, and we look forward to hearing
from you how you plan to promote peace through strength and
budget for the year.
Thank you, witnesses, for your time. And now I'm so
grateful. We have with us today back in his rightful place, the
ranking member, the gentleman from Minnesota, Mr. Dean Phillips
for his opening statements.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SUBCOMMITTEE RANKING MEMBER DEAN PHILLIPS
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the kind words
and your leadership. And just a reminder to all of us and all
of you and anybody who might be watching that this is a
committee dedicated to diplomacy and to peace, not to war. We
are here to identify tactics, provide resources, inspiration,
and strategies to end bloodshed.
And I know I speak for every single one of my colleagues,
Democrats and Republicans, when I say that any child, any child
in this world, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Agnostic
who loses a life in war is one child too many. I want to thank
Assistant Secretary Leaf and Deputy Assistant Administrator
Pryor for being with us today. And clearly, the world has
changed considerably since our last hearing less than a year
ago.
Discussion about strengthening U.S. engagement in the
Middle East, countering Russian and Chinese influence in the
region, and promoting regional integration and economic growth
have been supplanted by the appalling bloodshed in both Israel
and Gaza. The Hamas terror attack of October 7th claimed 1,200
Israeli lives and 253 hostages, including Americans. I want to
reiterate that.
Americans continue to be held hostage in Gaza by a terror
organization with approximately 134 remaining in captivity
today. And many of the women and girls killed or held captive
have been subject to the most incomprehensible, disgusting
sexual violence imaginable at the hands of Hamas terrorists.
There's not a single nation in the entire world that would not
have responded by aggressively targeting the elimination of
Hamas along with its key sponsor, the Iranian regime, are the
most destructive and destabilizing elements in the entire
Middle East.
Israel has justifiably declared war on Hamas, not the
Palestinian people. Hamas has sworn to the destruction of
Israel. They are coward who use women and children as human
shields.
They are coward who hide in tunnels, thousands of miles of
tunnels, under dense population centers. And they are coward
who operate and headquarter in hospitals and schools. In the 8
months since October 7th, the United Nations estimates that
over 35,000 human beings have been killed in Gaza.
While many thousands are clearly Hamas terrorists, there is
no denying the loss of thousands, thousands of innocent lives
in Gaza and near famine conditions that are currently ravaging
the population. Prime Minister Netanyahu and the Israeli
government have a responsibility to ensure increased
humanitarian aid reaches Palestinian civilians unimpeded and
that all operations to eliminate Hamas terrorists are conducted
in accordance with international humanitarian law. And when
violations and tragedies occur such as the strike on the World
Central Kitchen employees, it is Israeli's responsibility to
fully and comprehensively investigate such incidents and hold
individuals accountable.
Let me be clear. I am deeply, deeply concerned about the
Israeli government's failure to present a credible and
actionable strategy to ensure the durable elimination of Hamas,
the return of all hostages, and to enable finally Palestinian
self-governance and security. It has become clear that Prime
Minister Netanyahu seems to be more focused on preserving his
own position of power and short-term political advantages over
the long-term security and prosperity of both Palestinians and
Israelis alike.
So we find ourselves at yet another critical juncture.
During last year's hearing, we spoke about the extraordinary
possibility of a Saudi-Israeli normalization agreement which
despite this crisis still remains a possibility contingent, and
I repeat, contingent on Israel and the Arab world taking the
courageous steps necessary to realize it. And while Gaza
remains front and center, we mustn't forget Hezbollah
continuing to violate U.N. Security Council Resolution 1701 by
launching thousands of missiles and rockets toward Israel's
population centers.
We mustn't forget the Houthis in Yemen who continue to
attack commercial and military vessels in the Red Sea, having
done so over 68 times while preventing assistance from reaching
Yemeni civilians, half of whom desperately need humanitarian
aid. And we mustn't forget the millions of displaced people and
refugees desperate for the same thing that every single one of
us in this room take for granted, a roof over our heads, food
on the table for our children, and a future of possibility. The
Near East Affairs budget must reflect the acute needs of the
region while affording your agencies the ability and the
flexibility to effectively respond to these challenges.
I am pleased that Congress finally came together to pass
the National Security Supplemental Bill which including 8.7
billion in military aid and defense assistance to Israel and 9
billion in global humanitarian aid, much of which will be
deployed to Gaza.
I also urge your continued focus on repatriation and
reintegration efforts for ISIS families in refugee camps like
al-Hol and Roj in northeast Syria and your commitment to
working to address the humanitarian and security conditions
inside those camps. We also must address Democratic backsliding
in Tunisia and pushback against President Saied's authoritarian
rule and his continued destruction of institutional checks and
balances, arrests, and targeting of political adversaries and
silencing of the media and civil society.
And, finally, we must continue to encourage the selection
of a Lebanese president, long overdue, who can unite the
country, promote transparency and accountability and finally
put the interests of the Lebanese people above individual
enrichment and outside influence. Lebanon is facing a horrific
economic crisis, a refugee crisis, and a Hezbollah crisis. We
cannot address these things without a legitimate government in
place.
Most of all, thank you to both of you, our witnesses, to
your teams for all the extraordinary work that you do every day
on behalf of the United States of America and humanity. With
that, I yield back, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Wilson. And indeed, thank you, Congressman Dean
Phillips. And it's somewhat sad. We're in the final months of
Congressman Phillips serving in Congress. He's going on to
bigger and better things in the future. But he shall be missed.
But you can tell his passion and his background is so
appreciated in a bipartisan way.
We are pleased to have as distinguished witnesses today
Hon. Barbara A. Leaf, the Assistant Secretary for the Bureau of
Near Eastern Affairs at the Department of State, and Ms. Jeanne
Pryor, the Deputy Assistant Administrator for the Bureau of the
Middle East at USAID. Thank you for being here today, and your
full statements will be made for the record. And we will keep
the spoken remarks to 5 minutes so that we have time for
members to ask questions. And I now recognize Assistant
Secretary Leaf for the opening statement.
STATEMENT OF BARBARA LEAF
Ms. Leaf. Chairman Wilson, Ranking Member Phillips, members
of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me here today to
testify on the President's Fiscal Year 202025 budget request
for the Middle East and North Africa which remains--a region
which remains of vital importance to U.S. interests. While the
Israel-Hamas conflict and escalation by Iran and its proxies
complicate our work, the administration is fully committed to
leading the collective action necessary for a secure and stable
region responsive to the needs of its people. Diplomacy is the
best means to address the issues at hand, and your support will
undergird our vigorous diplomatic engagements to advance U.S.
interests and contests strategic competitors seeking to exploit
post-October 7th instability.
A regional engagement is anchored by a resolute effort to
reinforce our partnerships as they are tested by conflict.
We're committed to building enduring peace and security for and
between Israelis and Palestinians, including through eventual
steps to establish a Palestinian State existing side by side
with Israel. Our Fiscal Year 202025 request includes crucial
lifesaving aid for Palestinians in Gaza, as well as millions of
refugees and internally displaced persons in Lebanon, Syria,
Jordan, and Yemen.
Our unrivaled network of partnerships, including those
forged through the Abraham Accords, creates integrated defense
and deterrence to counter malign actors. Israel with the help
of the United States and a network of our allies was able to
defend itself from Iran's unprecedented missile and drone
attack. To hold Iran accountable, we engage with EU partners to
secure expansion of sanction authorities and work jointly with
the G-7 and others to impose sanctions.
Our regional partners play an important role in ensuring
regional stability and security. Egypt remains a critical
partner for addressing the Israel-Hamas conflict and preventing
regional spillover. It serves as a key staging ground, an entry
point for humanitarian aid, and as a throughput for those
evacuating Gaza.
With Qatar, Egypt is indispensable to our efforts to secure
the release of hostages. Jordan has also played a leading role
in promoting peace and security in the region. And that
cooperation remains critical to our own security priorities.
In 2022, we signed the 7-year MOU on assistance. Jordan is
making progress toward its benchmarks, and we will be with them
every step of the way to implement them. Diplomatic engagement
and solutions that build resilient institutions are the only
viable paths toward restoring and maintaining stability in the
region.
Diplomacy can allow Lebanese and Israeli civilians on both
sides of the Blue Line to return home. Our support enables
Lebanese armed forces to provide stability and security for
those living on both sides of the Blue Line. We were grateful
for the role they played protecting our embassy perimeter in
Beirut during violent protests last October.
Our request also calibrates support for the Tunisian people
and to address their needs in an increasingly forbidding
environment. Targeted U.S. investments have promoted
professionalism and accountability within the Tunisian armed
forces and counters strategic competitors attempting to gain
influence by exploiting Tunisia's current security challenges.
Your support for the Department's plans to establish an interim
diplomatic facility in Libya allows us to scale up our
diplomacy amid an intensification of Russia's destabilizing
influence.
Libya's funding under the Global Fragility Act and our
$19.25 million in bilateral assistance request supports Libya's
eventual transition to a democratic, stable, and unified
states. We seek a durable resolution to the conflict in Yemen
through an inclusive peace process under U.N. auspices.
Reckless Houthi attacks in the Red Sea threaten the regional
and global economy and undermine those prospects.
The $41.6 million in Yemen request advances our priorities
of lasting peace in Yemen and economic security for the Yemeni
people. Our commitment to greater regional stability includes
the enduring defeat of ISIS which continues to pose a resilient
threat. With funds raised through the coalition and continued
support of Congress, we can address and resettle families from
al-Hol and Roj camps and provide stabilization to foster
resilience in local communities.
A key U.S. priority is fostering a stable and sovereign
Iraq integrated regionally and with the global economic system.
Our work with Iraq to diversify and grow its economy and
develop real energy independence helps the Sudani government
deliver better opportunities for the Iraqi people. And that
includes an inclusive State for Iraq's religious and ethnic
minorities.
While events in the last year have injected dramatic
dynamics into the Middle East and North Africa, our commitment
to the region remains steadfast. The Department is committed to
supporting our partners working together to address shared
challenges. Thank you for the opportunity to testify on the
President's budget request, and I want to close by thanking the
subcommittee for your continued support for our efforts in the
regions. And I want to give a shout out to my staff in the
field and the staff in the NEA Bureau who helped me prepare for
this today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Leaf follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Assistant Secretary Leaf.
And we now recognize Department Assistant Administrator Pryor
for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF JEANNE PRYOR
Ms. Pryor. Chairman Wilson, Ranking Member Phillips, and
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for
inviting me here to testify today at this incredibly difficult
time in our region. We all know that the Middle East and North
Africa are at a critical inflection point. Hamas' abhorrent
attack on Israel and the ongoing conflict in Gaza have taken
center stage across the globe.
The challenges of the moment offering opportunity in which
the relatively modest amounts in our Fiscal Year 2025 request
might play an outsized role in shaping a peaceful and
prosperous future for the region. While we remain focused on
the immediate response, we must also examine the entire scope
of the region's challenges in order to envision a path forward.
Water and food insecurity, high numbers of displaced persons
from conflicts and natural disasters, corruption and economic
mismanagement already strained the region's resources prior to
October 7th.
The region's fragile economies have been further set behind
by the ongoing violence. Palestinian gross domestic product in
2023 declined by 1 billion compared with 2022, all of that in
the fourth quarter. And earlier this year, the International
Monetary Fund lowered its growth forecast for the region to 2
percent, significantly below the 5.6 percent gross seen in
2022.
Despite the difficulties of this moment, Hamas' horrific
attack makes clear the high cost of yielding the competition
for the region's future, not only for the United States but
also for our regional allies. Our Fiscal Year 2025 request
proposes critical investments to address the region's needs. In
response to the conflict, we have requested an increase of 10.3
million to mitigate post-conflict needs in Gaza and the West
Bank and five million for Lebanon. We've also requested an 11
million increase in funding to support Morocco's recovery from
last year's earthquake and an additional 22 million in Syria to
reintegrate returnees from al-Hol into their communities.
We will use these increases and other requested investments
to build on previous accomplishments. For example, just this
month, USAID supported the departure of 66 families from al-Hol
camp to Deir ez-Zor Governorate where we are supporting them in
their communities with legal assistance, transitional shelter,
psychosocial support, and job opportunities. And just this week
in Morocco, Administrator Samantha Power announced our
partnership with the government of Morocco and an NGO to give
direct cash grants to 180 cooperatives whose livelihoods were
compromised by the earthquake.
Our peacebuilding work deserves particular attention given
the growing divisions in the region. Although tensions remain
high, we continue to see signs of hope in the dedicated
peacebuilders in the region. Our partners through the Nita M.
Lowey Middle East Partnership for Peace Act remain committed to
their work.
And our Middle East Regional Cooperation program has
likewise seen positive signals for continued cross border
collaboration from its participants. Proposals for
collaboration between Palestinian and Israeli researchers
remain among the top proposed MERC partnerships. Our Fiscal
Year 2025 request continues funding for these critical
activities to continue the work of building enduring peaceful
ties between Israel and its neighbors.
Despite the numerous regional challenges, space remains to
influence the trajectory of the region. The region's young
population will play a critical role in shaping their future.
We must invest in helping these young people develop a Middle
East and North African region that is integrated into the
global economy. With the funds requested, we will not only
empower the people of the Middle East in North Africa to forge
a more promising and prosperous future but also ensure security
for America and its allies. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Pryor follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Ms. Pryor. And I now
recognize Congressman Brian Mast. And I want to thank him. At
our last hearing, he showed his resolve. He stated hour after
hour after hour and then was the person to be able to ask a
question. So today, the last shall go first. Congressman Brian
Mast.
Mr. Mast. I'll take your word on that, Chairman. Thank you.
Thank you both for your testimony today. I've reviewed your
testimoneys prior to your attendance today.
Secretary Leaf, my questions are primarily for you. Having
reviewed your testimony, your request for budget, the
discussion of post-conflict needs in Gaza, what you're
requesting there, and specifically your statement in your
written testimony about a two-State solution is the best way to
ensure Israel's future as a Jewish and democratic State living
in peace alongside a viable, sovereign, and democratic
Palestinian State as part of your testimony.
It's fair to say you're the chief diplomat for America over
the Mid East, the top dog as they say. That would be a fair
categorization of yourself? Yes, ma'am. Turn your microphone on
so everybody can hear you.
Ms. Leaf. Yes.
Mr. Mast. Very good. So my first question, I've asked this
of others before. Have you objectively assessed your pursuit of
a Palestinian state?
Ms. Leaf. So Congressman, when have I objectively assessed
it, meaning are the conditions there right now. They're not
there.
Mr. Mast. Did you objectively--did you just decide, hey, I
think there should be a Palestinian state? Or did you
objectively look at this?
Ms. Leaf. Longstanding policy and it's certainly been the
stated policy of this administration.
Mr. Mast. But did you personally as the top dog over the
Middle East objectively assess whether we should make a State
out of a group that currently holds five Americans hostage--
roughly five Americans hostage----
Ms. Leaf. We----
Mr. Mast [continuing]. Killed 35 Americans in the last
couple months? Did you objectively assess?
Ms. Leaf. So Congressman, we have no intention of working
with Hamas in that endeavor. What we're talking about is
something entirely different.
Mr. Mast. I would hope you don't.
Ms. Leaf. Yes.
Mr. Mast. So let me ask a question related to that. But you
did objectively assess this?
Ms. Leaf. Yes.
Mr. Mast. Okay. Who did you objectively assess would become
the leader of the Palestinian State that you wish to create?
Ms. Leaf. It's not for us to designate a leader.
Mr. Mast. But if you are objectively assessing whether the
United States of America should put resources into creating a
Palestinian State as the top diplomat over the Middle East, we
would expect that you objectively assessed who would become the
leader of this State.
Ms. Leaf. No, it is not for us to determine that.
Mr. Mast. I didn't say you were going to determine it. I
said who do you objectively assess will be the leader of that?
Ms. Leaf. I don't have--I don't have an objective
assessment as to who will be the leader of that.
Mr. Mast. So you did not objectively assess who----
Ms. Leaf. That's not part of the----
Mr. Mast [continuing]. Would become the leader of the State
that you wish to make?
Ms. Leaf. No.
Mr. Mast. So you don't assess--well, maybe you can do it
right now. Would you assess that Hamas would be the leader of
that state?
Ms. Leaf. Absolutely not.
Mr. Mast. Palestinian Islamic Jihad?
Ms. Leaf. Absolutely not.
Mr. Mast. Fatah?
Ms. Leaf. Fatah is not the leader of anything right now. It
is----
Mr. Mast. I'm asking you if you assess.
Ms. Leaf. Fatah is an organization. It's a political
organization.
Mr. Mast. Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade.
Ms. Leaf. It's one of the number--no, absolutely----
Mr. Mast. Lion's Den.
Ms. Leaf. Any of the--any of the FTOs, any of the
organizations we have designated as foreign terrorist
organizations are exactly that. That is not what we're talking
about.
Mr. Mast. But certainly as you being our top diplomat in
the area, you should be able to understand that we should have
every expectation that if you're pursuing, creating a
Palestinian State that you would've objectively assessed who
you think would be the leader of that. Now let me ask you
something else. Do you objectively assess that if they were
made a State today that they would have to be labeled a State
sponsor of terror?
Ms. Leaf. Who is the they in that question?
Mr. Mast. A Palestinian State. Would it--a Palestinian
State created prior to October 7, would it be a State sponsor
of terror today?
Ms. Leaf. It's a theoretical question I can't answer.
Mr. Mast. Would you label them a State sponsor of terror
today?
Ms. Leaf. It's a theoretical question.
Mr. Mast. Now you're just acting----
Ms. Leaf. Actually, one in the past.
Mr. Mast [continuing]. Like people do in D.C. Would you
label them a State sponsored--do they meet the requirements?
Ms. Leaf. Who's they?
Mr. Mast. Well, their government is Hamas.
Ms. Leaf. No. If you're talking about Hamas, I've already
answered that question.
Mr. Mast. But that is their government?
Ms. Leaf. No, but we're not talking about Gaza. We're
talking about a Palestinian State. And that's a larger
question. And it would be a negotiated process.
Mr. Mast. Who would negotiate that?
Ms. Leaf. The U.S. would offer its good offices to
negotiate between the parties.
Mr. Mast. So we would negotiate it. But it's not up to us
to think about who would be the leader of that Palestinian
state?
Ms. Leaf. Ever in the past----
Mr. Mast. You should not objective assess that?
Ms. Leaf. We have never in the past designated leaders in
the guise of such negotiations.
Mr. Mast. So I don't think what you're saying exactly adds
up here, that you wouldn't assess who would be the leader of
this Palestinian State.
Ms. Leaf. For the Palestinians to determine.
Mr. Mast. But the Palestinians----
Ms. Leaf. But we're not talking----
Mr. Mast [continuing]. Determined this in the past. And
they determined Hamas would be their leadership. Polling after
polling shows they would choose Hamas as their leadership.
Ms. Leaf. The PLO is the recognized representative of the
Palestinian people. Hamas is an FTO and lies outside of the
PLO.
Mr. Mast. You think the PLO----
Ms. Leaf. The PLO is----
Mr. Mast [continuing]. Is recognized as the leadership by
the Palestinian people?
Ms. Leaf. The Palestinian authority governs. The PLO is the
representative.
Mr. Mast. You think that's what the Palestinian people
believe?
Ms. Leaf. I haven't done polling on this recently.
Mr. Mast. But as the top diplomat over the Middle East, I
would expect that you've reviewed this.
Ms. Leaf. But the PLO is the entity that did the Oslo
Agreement with Israel, and----
Mr. Mast. It appears to be that my time is expired. I thank
you for trying to answer. You have not objectively assessed
whether it is wise for America to pursue making a State out of
Palestinians. And I suggest you do as the top diplomat over the
Middle East.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congressman Brian Mast. We
now proceed to ranking member Dean Phillips for 5 minutes.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Secretary Leaf, I
want to thank you again for your emphasis on--and the State
Department's emphasis on the repatriation and reintegration
efforts of the ISIS families. I spoke about that in my opening
remarks.
My bill, the Syrian Detainee and Displaced Persons Act
renewed the position of the ISIS detainee coordinator and
directed the development of a strategy on how to address these
camps. It became law in the 2024 NDAA and even in Minnesota.
Two half-brothers were reunited with their grandparents and
repatriated another family of ten back to the United States.
So I just want to compliment you on that effort. I know
some might question why would we do that for ISIS families. But
perhaps you could speak to the why. Why is it important, the
work that your team is doing is critical for U.S. national
security?
Ms. Leaf. So with regard to this effort on repatriation,
and I will say it's an all hands effort because my colleagues
in the Bureau for Counterterrorism also work assiduously on
this effort, as does the Bureau for--PRM, the Bureau for
Population and Migration. So what I would say is the following.
Those encampments of al-Hol and Roj are both filled with
families, children. More than half of the population is
children.
And they are the--sort of the human leftovers of ISIS. And
they suffer as much as anyone at this point. The quest to
resettle them in their home countries, whether it's largely
Iraq or in Syria, goes precisely to the effort of trying to
integrate people back into communities to make those
communities resilient and to be resilient against a resurgent
ISIS. And that goes directly to our national security
interests.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you for that affirmation. Ms. Pryor,
you spoke of MEPPA's people-to-people Partnership for Peace
fund. Try to say that five times fast.
Tell me how you're looking at that since October 7th. Has
anything changed? And how has the peacebuilding community in
general responded to these events since?
Ms. Pryor. Thank you for your question. So we were
concerned with the conflict. What would happen to MEPPA? But as
we've worked with the peacebuilding community, we have been
inspired by their reaction.
What they see in this, in all their trauma, in all their
grief and anguish on both sides, Israelis and Palestinians,
they have redoubled their commitment to peace. And that's hard
in their larger communities. So it is really incumbent upon us
to continue our support to them while they try to bring back
the idea of peaceful coexistence and rebuild those frayed ties
between the two communities.
I was very pleased that when we put out our most recent
solicitation that we had nearly 100 applications. And so
there's clearly still a commitment and a desire now more than
ever to find ways for peaceful coexistence. Thank you.
Mr. Phillips. I hope so. Thank you. Back to you, Secretary
Leaf. Many of us are concerned about settler violence in the
West Bank. It works against our aspirations for peace.
I was encouraged by President Biden's EO imposing sanctions
I think on 12 individuals. Can you discuss that? Has there been
any change whatsoever in that activity? And if so, if you could
articulate it.
Ms. Leaf. So this has been a longstanding effort over the
last I would say at least 2 years. And it culminated after
October 7th with what we saw as a very sharp increase in
violence on the ground in an effort to really just push
communities off their land over and over again. And obviously,
destabilizing clearly harmful for the interest of civility and
for the lives of Palestinians in the West Bank.
But frankly, it ultimately can be a spark and a flashpoint
and therefore a security issue for Israel. We took action to
really go after those who were leading this. And this is an
ongoing process. We also engaged forthrightly with senior
levels, military and civilian, in the Israeli government to
cease the practice of Army units escorting settlers which they
were doing at that time.
That is largely but not entirely stopped. But we really
asked the Israelis to redouble their effort to bring this down.
We've seen a decrease but it is by no means over. And lately
we've seen organized efforts to obstruct critical humanitarian
aid going into Gaza.
Mr. Phillips. Last quick question. I listened to my
colleague, Mr. Mast's comments about the myriad of terrorist
organizations ostensibly trying to represent Palestinians.
Based on your experience in the region and even recent visits,
do you get a sense of aspiration amongst the Palestinian people
to select--given the opportunity to select a government that
would want to make peace?
Ms. Leaf. So what we have found and what polling indicated
on the eve of October 7th was that those who had to live under
Hamas' predations by and large rejected Hamas. But they didn't
have a vote. Hamas rules by dent of the gun, by force. It is
fair to say Palestinians long for State.
Our stance is simple. It's a negotiated State. It's a State
that shares the land in a sense with Israel, recognizes Israel
as the PLO did more than 30 years ago.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you. And with that, my time is expired
and I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you much, Ranking Member Dean Phillips.
And now I recognize myself. And indeed I want to thank you for
being here. And what a time in history.
We need a bipartisan manner to achieve as much as we can.
That's why I express concern again about Dr. Majd Kamalmaz in
that he was a Syrian American. And we have so many people in
our country who have family.
They can be Yemeni. They can be Lebanese. We know Iraq,
Iran, and Syria, Assad, to kill, murder an American citizen.
There must be a response so that Americans can visit with their
families safely.
And of course, dictatorships have a history of doing this
with the murder of Alexei Navalny, the kidnaping of Vladimir
Kara-Murza by war criminal Putin over and over again. People
should have freedom of travel without being kidnaped and
murdered. With that in mind, I'm also so concerned about the
regime in Tehran, the dictatorships, oil exports to finance
their terrorist puppets, Hamas, Houthi, Hezbollah.
Additionally, they use that money to oppress the people of
Iran. We know that the vast majority of the people of Iran
would want to live in a modern civilization. The Iranian
American community diaspora, the Iranian diaspora around the
world just dream 1 day for freedom and liberty for the people
of Iran. With that in mind, to what extent is the
administration working with the European allies to ensure a
snapback of all U.N. sanctions on Iran to be triggered at the
Security Council for the remaining restrictions on Iran's
nuclear program lapse in 2025?
Ms. Leaf. Congressman, thank you for that lay down of all
the issues that, in fact, consume this administration. What I
would say about snapback is this is an issue that is discussed
diplomatically with our partners. I would default to discussing
this in a classified setting as to the various aspects of the
nuclear program and how that is affected by snapback or not.
But I want to address some of the concerns that you just
laid out about Iran's freewheeling efforts to destabilize the
region. You're right. It is at a cost as much to the Iranian
people as it is to the people of the region.
And therefore, we have really bolstered our efforts both
across economic, diplomatic military efforts to drive pressures
on that end. As we saw on April 13th and 14th, we had an
extraordinary opportunity that was quite successful to bring
together regional and European partners to bolster and defend
against proxy attacks and attacks directly from Iran against
Israel. I think that is--however terrifying that night was for
all of us, for Israelis most of all, it was a ready
demonstration of an appetite for common action that we didn't
see 10 years ago.
Mr. Wilson. Additionally, back to Syria, it really concerns
me the Arab League, much to all of our disappointment has
recognized the Assad dictatorship. I'm hoping that every effort
is made for the United States not to reach out to the
dictatorship particularly in light of their use of chemical
weapons. And then their use of chemical weapons, now we find
out today that war criminal Putin is using chemical weapons
against the civilian population of Ukraine.
And the parallels keep going. And Putin helped lead the
effort of the total destruction of Aleppo, then the total
destruction of Mariupol, and now the planned destruction of the
second largest city of Ukraine, 1.4 million people in Kharkiv
and using chemical weapons against the defenders there. With
that in mind, what effort is being made to prevent
normalization with Assad?
Ms. Leaf. So I'll just remind for the record this
administration has no intentions of normalizing relations with
Assad. It is one of the most heavily sanctioned countries in
the world right after Iran. And we continue to look for ways to
use new sanction opportunities to increase that pressure.
We've been very clear with our Arab and other partners that
we see no value in the act of giving Assad reentry to the Arab
League. It has looked like it's pretty formulated. He does not
look like he has garnered the dividends that he had hoped to.
But we make it very clear with our partners that there is no
room for flouting our sanctions and that pressure ought to be
applied by them in addition to us and our European partners on
this account.
Mr. Wilson. Well, every effort should be made. It's just so
important to have peace through strength and to sanction the
dictatorships around the world so they cannot be unlimited in
their conduct of mass murder and slaughter. With that in mind,
we now proceed to Congressman Brad Schneider of California--
Sherman, Sherman not of Illinois.
Mr. Sherman. Thank you. Thank you for being here. We saw
the death of Ebrahim Raisi. Unfortunately, the Security Council
decided for a moment of silence in mourning his death. And
while we feel for the families of every human being, few have
murdered as many thousands of people.
I want to talk about some brave Iranians who now face the
death penalty for speaking out for Women, Life, and Freedom
Movement and for democracy in Iran. That includes rapper Toomaj
Salehi who became an outspoken voice of protest. On April 30th,
he was sentenced to death by two judges, neither of whom have
been sanctioned by the United States.
And so I hope you'll jot down as one of your items to do to
see whether these two judges should be sanctioned. Since then,
two more dissidents, Fawdar--sorry for the pronunciation--and
Danielle Moghadam have been reportedly arrested for their own
protests. Can you commit that the State Department will use all
appropriate forums to call for the release of these
individuals?
Ms. Leaf. Absolutely.
Mr. Sherman. And I would hope that you would suggest to
Linda Thomas Greenfield that at an appropriate time in the
Security Council there be a moment of silence for the families
of those who--Ebrahim Raisi sentenced to death, 30,000 of them
in 1988, the 1,500 murdered in 2019 in Bloody November, and the
many others who are victims of his bloodstained hands. As to
the Houthi, they have killed men for being gay. They have
murdered and put their bodies hanging.
They have murdered thousands. They are an illegal terrorist
group. But what is also not recognized is that there is a real
genocide that has happened in Ethiopia. And there are now the
600,000 people are dead.
And now food in the horn of Africa is more costly as a
direct result of the Houthi who are probably killing more today
through their actions in driving up the price of food to the
point where people can't afford it than events in Gaza. We have
occasionally bombed the Houthi to stop them or retaliate for
them hitting ships. But bombing isn't precise.
Saudi bombing is so imprecise that we get a little angry at
it now and then. There's a legitimate government of Yemen.
They're asking for defense articles.
They're willing to do on the ground what needs to be done
to save thousands of lives and Yemen--hundreds of thousands of
lives. And Yemen, hundreds of thousands of lives for those
dependent upon food shipments to the Red Sea. Why are we not
providing those defense articles?
Ms. Leaf. Thank you for that set of questions, Congressman.
So when the administration came into office, one of the first
acts of the President on foreign policy terms was to establish
to set up a--ask that we set up an envoy in an effort to drive
the ongoing war at that time to a close, to a peaceful close,
to a truce. That is what we did over the course of 2 years.
And we have a de facto truce. However, in the meantime,
this--and a roadmap to peace to Yemeni-Yemeni negotiations
under U.N. auspices. Quite frankly, we think the food
insecurity would only grow vaster, greater. The situation would
become more parlous if that war were to resume.
Mr. Sherman. I'm not suggesting you resume--resumption of
the war. But if a legitimate government doesn't have defense
articles, that will resume the war as we know that Marib is
under possible Houthi attack. So if you're going to prevent the
Houthis from expanding this war, peace through strength rather
than the idea that because you're for peace, you're against
defense articles.
Ms. Leaf. No, I understand what you mean.
Mr. Sherman. I'll point out that we had Blinken, of course,
yesterday. He committed that within 30 days he'd get back to us
as to whether the Popular Resistance Committees in Gaza should
be designated as either a foreign terrorist organization or
specially designated terrorist organization. And I bring that
to your attention because you're the one that's actually going
to have to do the work.
But, as you know, Hamas does not act alone. It has sister,
cousin organizations, Islamic Jihad. Palestinian Islamic Jihad
is the best known of those. Second on that list is the Popular
Resistance Committees, who are responsible for participating in
the massacres of October 7th, but have also killed both
American and Israeli civilians.
So I hope that you'll get that work done and that we will
see them designated. I'll leave it to you as to which of those
two designations most apply. And finally, as I pointed out to
Secretary Blinken, we cannot--we want a rapprochement with
Saudi Arabia and Israel but not at the cost of a successful
Saudi nuclear program.
Saudi has occasionally said they want what Iran has. Well,
Iran has the enmity and hostility of the United States. Saudi
Arabia, remember that any weapon that was in the Shah's hands,
supposedly our friend in 1978, was in the hands of the
Ayatollahs in 1979. So I hope that any 123 Agreement with Saudi
Arabia has the additional protocol for more inspection,
prohibits reprocessing, prohibits refinement, and otherwise
meets the gold standard. And that gold standard is already
exemplified in our agreement with the UAE--our nuclear
cooperation agreement with the UAE.
Mr. Wilson. And thank you, Congressman Brad Sherman of
California. And we now proceed to Congressman Mike Lawler of
New York.
Mr. Lawler. Yesterday, I asked Secretary Blinken if the
administration was implementing the SHIP Act and the Iran China
Energy Sanctions Act which were signed into law as part of the
supplemental last month. He said that they have been
sanctioning oil tankers involved in the Iranian oil trade but
that's not exactly what the bills do. So Mr. Leaf, do you plan
to implement the SHIP Act's sanctions against ports and
refineries that process Iranian oil?
Ms. Leaf. Yes.
Mr. Lawler. Have you started that process?
Ms. Leaf. I would have to get a more detailed answer for
you, Congressman. I don't know where that process lies. I know
that we've sanctioned over 220 persons that are involved in the
shipment--transshipment of oil.
Mr. Lawler. Since the bill took effect?
Ms. Leaf. I don't know----
Mr. Lawler. Or you're talking about prior to?
Ms. Leaf. Up to now, up to now.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. Well, up to now, Iranian oil sales are up
$88 billion since Joe Biden took office. So I would say what
you're doing up to now has not been effective. Do you plan to
implement the Iran-China Energy Sanctions Act, sanctions
against Chinese financial institutions and cooperation with
other departments?
Ms. Leaf. We will carry out the law, Congressman.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. But to your knowledge, it has not yet
started?
Ms. Leaf. I will get back to you on that.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. Last year's NDAA included my bill to
create a special envoy position at the State Department to
prioritize and expand the Abraham Accords. What steps has the
State Department taken thus far since that bill took effect?
Ms. Leaf. We do not have an envoy. And we were--however,
that said, we had a whole set of staff working on normalization
issues all the way up through October 7th. That work will
continue apace when the conditions are right. As you know, we
have had a specific set of normalization efforts underway as
regards to Saudi Arabia. The national security advisor just
reported out on those discussions between Saudi Arabia and the
U.S. and then his briefings to the Israeli government.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. So just to be clear, within the NDAA,
there was a provision to create the special envoy for the
Abraham Accords. And to date what has been done to enact that--
--
Ms. Leaf. We do not have an envoy.
Mr. Lawler. Is there a short list? Is somebody pulling
together a list?
Ms. Leaf. Not that I'm aware.
Mr. Lawler. So the administration has no intention of
filling this position?
Ms. Leaf. No, I did not say that. I said we do not have an
envoy at this time.
Mr. Lawler. So this was signed into law in December. When
do you anticipate that this process will get started?
Ms. Leaf. I can't answer that today. I'll be happy to get
back to you.
Mr. Lawler. That's disturbing. Ms. Leaf, the ICC is an
absolute abomination. Do you agree that the ICC has an anti-
Israel bias?
Ms. Leaf. Well, I think we spoke very clearly over the last
couple of days about this, that it was a shameful equivalency
that was drawn between the acts of Hamas and the Israeli
leadership. I think this President and the Secretary have been
very clear on this point.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. I----
Ms. Leaf. I can't answer a larger question about----
Mr. Lawler. Do you think there's an anti-Israel bias at the
ICC?
Ms. Leaf. I'm not in the position to judge that.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. Do you agree with Senator Schumer that
there should be regime change in Israel?
Ms. Leaf. The administration is not fostering regime change
anywhere, including in Israel.
Mr. Lawler. So you don't agree with Senator Schumer's----
Ms. Leaf. That is a decision----
Mr. Lawler [continuing]. Demand that there be a regime
change?
Ms. Leaf [continuing]. Totally for the Israeli people.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. Do you agree with Nancy Pelosi when she
said that Benjamin Netanyahu should resign?
Ms. Leaf. That is a decision for the Israeli people.
Mr. Lawler. So you don't agree with Nancy Pelosi?
Ms. Leaf. I do not.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. Is Israel committing a genocide in Gaza?
Ms. Leaf. No.
Mr. Lawler. The fastest way for a cease-fire to occur would
be for Hamas to surrender and release all the hostages,
correct?
Ms. Leaf. Yes, it is.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. If the--and you agree that Iran and
Hamas' stated goal is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth,
correct?
Ms. Leaf. Yes, yes, it is.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. So knowing that, why did the
administration withhold weapons to aid Israel despite Congress
approving the delivery of these weapons?
Ms. Leaf. So at a time of intense discussions with the
Israeli leadership--between the U.S. and Israeli leadership
over the question of a major combat operation in Rafah where at
the time 1.4 million IDPs were crowded into a very congested
piece of Gaza where all the infrastructure for their assistance
was located there. At that time, the president made a decision
to hit pause on one shipment so that those discussions could
continue but that those weapons would not be used in such an
operation. And these discussions continued. They continued
during the national security----
Mr. Lawler. But you agree that Hamas uses innocent
Palestinians as human shields, correct?
Ms. Leaf. Absolutely.
Mr. Lawler. Okay. I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. And again, thank you so much, Congressman Mike
Lawler, for your very insightful questions. And now we proceed
to Congresswoman Kathy Manning of North Carolina.
Ms. Manning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to my
friends, Chairman Wilson and Ranking Member Phillips. And thank
you to our witnesses for joining us today. Assistant Secretary
Leaf, yesterday I asked Secretary Blinken about the alarming
reports that Egypt secretly changed the terms of a cease-fire
proposal, a good proposal that Israel had signed off on which
jeopardized the release--the deal to release the hostages. Can
you tell us what exactly happened there?
Ms. Leaf. I've seen those reports. I really can't elaborate
on them. And I don't really know whether there's anything at
all to this.
Ms. Manning. I hope you will followup on this because it is
extremely disturbing to think that a country that we give
billions of dollars to aid every year would change the terms of
a cease-fire agreement and jeopardize getting the release of
hostages who we are all determined to get back to their loved
ones safely. Do you find that recognition of a Palestinian
State by Spain and Ireland and Norway and other unilateral
steps are effective to help secure the release of the hostages
and forge a resolution to the conflict?
Ms. Leaf. So our stance on this is very clear. We support a
negotiated solution, a negotiated creation or roadmap to a
negotiated Palestinian State. Unilateral recognition doesn't
advance anything.
Ms. Manning. And can you clarify the administration's
policy on the Israeli operation in Rafah? Do you believe--I
mean, we've now seen what's happening in Rafah. There is the
exodus of many, many people from--innocent civilians from that
situation. How can Hamas be defeated in Rafah without--how can
Hamas be defeated without any operation in Rafah?
Ms. Leaf. No, I think the President and the Secretary and
the national security advisor, all of us who've had these
discussions have been very clear. It's a question of how an
operation is undertaken, under what conditions, setting the
conditions for people to safely move, ensuring that there's a
humanitarian infrastructure for them to move to. And then how
to go in is the subject of military to military discussion. And
I think our military has given really good advice on going in a
targeted way in a way that really mitigates the risk of
civilian harm.
Ms. Manning. And have the Israelis been open to that
advice?
Ms. Leaf. We have seen them adjust over time. And we are
watching this very closely as the national security advisor
said.
Ms. Manning. So as we discuss the day after, hopefully when
this war concludes, how do you see the willingness of Arab
partners to assist with the post-war security and
reconstruction? And do you see hopeful signs?
Ms. Leaf. I do. I do. And look, this conflict has
engendered tremendous turmoil, public anger across the region
at the suffering that has been very visible to everyone, the
suffering of civilians who were caught in harm's way in the
conflict. But I think the governments that we have been talking
to, those with relationships now with Israel and several who do
not yet have relationships.
They have a deep going commitment to the same quest that we
have which is an enlarging integration across the region. That
means Israel integrated into the region. So I do expect that we
have a lot of partners on the other side of this conflict.
Ms. Manning. As I'm sure you have been doing, I have been
following all of the reports about the horrific sexual
violence, mutilation, humiliation that was used as a weapon of
war by Hamas against Israeli women and girls. And we are deeply
concerned about those women who are still being held hostage.
And recently, a video was released from a Hamas Go Pro camera
showing how horrific their treatment has been. What levers do
you see for getting Sinwar to release those hostages?
Ms. Leaf. So I met with families of those five young women
on one of my, I think, eight trips out to the region since
October. And it was a wrenching discussion. And I for one could
not bear to look at that video again.
At the end of the day, we have at the end of a phone line a
guy who many people have termed a psychopath. He's certainly
messianic. He certainly thinks he's achieved some place in
history.
And he has dragged everyone toward a terrible place. But I
will assure you that both Egypt and Qatar and a few other
countries that have some level of influence. But especially
those two countries, they have worked relentlessly at this
effort.
So yes, there is pressure from conditions of the conflict
itself. There's pressure, I think, from Gazans who want an end
to this conflict. But our two partners have put unstinting
pressure on Hamas.
Ms. Manning. Thank you for your testimony. I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Kathy
Manning. Again, can you imagine, we're going to miss--we lose
Dean Phillips and Kathy Manning. This is just not good. But we
appreciate their service.
And then we get very talented freshmen in here too. So
Congressman Gabe Amo all the way from Rhode Island.
Mr. Amo. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And thank you,
Assistant Secretary Leaf and Ms. Pryor for being here today. As
we continue to witness the devastation in Gaza and increased
instability across the region, it is clear that we need an
immediate and lasting cease-fire that surges humanitarian aid
into Gaza and releases the hostages that continue to be held by
Hamas.
As my colleague, Ms. Manning, just stated, we must be
prepared for the day after. A long term plan is essential for
Israelis and Palestinians alike to have security and self-
determination. And I pray, personally, that it's a plan where
the tragic events on and following October 7th are never
repeated.
This committee, the State Department, and USAID will play
an important role in the cease-fire negotiations and a long-
term path to peace. Assistant Secretary Leaf, I just want to
hear briefly about how you and leaders at the State Department
have elevated the humanitarian imperatives as you've engaged in
negotiations and your thinking as it relates to the day after.
Ms. Leaf. Thank you, Congressman. So we have out on the
field right now a special envoy, Lise Grande, who has 30-plus
years of working in the most dire of humanitarian conditions,
places of conflict. And she is out there in Israel now leading
our efforts, corralling our efforts working across the Israeli
government with the Egyptian government with humanitarian
actors with the Israeli military to really bring everything to
bear so that we can have a true surge of humanitarian
assistance.
It's not just episodic but it is sustained. The conflict is
unbelievably complex. And the conditions inside Gaza really
pose tremendous challenges to the humanitarian workers.
Lise Grande is working hand in glove with all of these
parties to see that there are deconfliction mechanisms, that
all the pieces are put in place so that the food that the
critical humanitarian assistance gets to those in need. She
also has plenty of experience on stabilization effort. So when
you talk about the post-conflict setting, we look at it in
three sort of buckets.
There is security. There is post-conflict governance. And
there is the recovery and reconstruction piece. You can throw a
lot of money at that last piece. But the first two pieces are
really shaped first and foremost as the Secretary has said
apart from the military effort to destroy Hamas' capabilities.
Giving and allowing an alternative to Hamas' ideology is
critical. So you've heard the Secretary, the National Security
Advisor, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs speak to the need for
Israel itself to have a larger strategic political set of
objectives alongside the military campaign. Military campaign
will just be, as the military say, continually mowing the grass
but not really achieving that settled conditions in which we
will work with our partners to stand up alternatives to Hamas
in security, alternatives to Hamas in terms of governance.
And to an earlier question, we think we have partners out
there. We know we have partners out there. But we're going to
need a lot of assistance to get those security and governance
pieces elaborated in a way that works for the people of Gaza
and that is framed in a larger political context.
Mr. Amo. On the point of surging humanitarian aid topic
that I am concerned with, earlier this month, Ms. Pryor, USAID
announced additional greater Federal funding for ready to use
therapeutic foods, lifesaving treatment for children who are
facing acute malnutrition. One of only two domestic producers
of those ready to use therapeutic foods as in my home State of
Rhode Island at a nonprofit named Edesia Nutrition which stands
ready and able to offer this critical assistance to vulnerable
civilians in Gaza, particularly the youngest. Ms. Pryor, how
are these ready to use therapeutic foods getting into Gaza to
help children facing malnutrition? And at present, are you able
to effectively provide these therapeutic foods to civilians in
Gaza?
Ms. Pryor. Thank you, sir. You're right. Our RUTFs are
incredibly important in an emergency response, especially for
children who are suffering from severe food insecurity. The
challenge right now is just getting goods in.
We've had access, open, closed, depending upon security
conditions within. We're not getting nearly enough assistance
in. The economic support funds that I oversee don't actually
engage in this. But I'm happy to go back to my humanitarian
assistance colleagues and get more information about this issue
specifically. Thank you.
Mr. Amo. Thank you, Ms. Pryor. And I think the urgency of
the moment is clear. And we need to act accordingly to make
sure that we address the hunger that far too many are facing.
And with that, I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congressman Gabe Amo. We
now proceed to Congressman Brad Schneider of Illinois.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank
both witnesses for being here today. I have so many questions.
I wish we could dwell on all of them. But I'll start--first of
all, associate myself with the comments of those who've gone
before me but start at a high end. Is U.S. committed to our
leadership role in the MENA region?
Ms. Leaf. Absolutely.
Mr. Schneider. And expected to stay committed to that for
the long term?
Ms. Leaf. Yes, sir.
Mr. Schneider. Okay. Does the budget we're talking about
and presented here reflect that priority and what we're trying
to achieve?
Ms. Leaf. Yes.
Mr. Schneider. Those are my easy questions. I was speaking
yesterday and I tried to make the point that the best way to
ultimately defeat Hamas, PG in Gaza, Hezbollah, the Houthis,
the militias in Syria and Iraq and all of which center
ultimately at Iran. The best way to do that, the most
devastating defeat to these organizations would be to get on a
path to peace for the region. Both of you somewhat expand on
that.
Ms. Leaf. I'd be happy to. It's sort of the issue that's on
my mind every day. So look, I think we saw rather horribly
illuminated for the first time was the full range of proxies
that have been stood up, created by Iran over 30-plus years.
Nearly 40 years this has been a project of Iran's.
And we who follow these things, we're well aware of that.
We all are. The countries, the region feel the impact of those
proxies on their sovereignty, on their security, stability.
But this was a really rather ghastly illumination of the
degree to which Iran has weaponized the issue of the
unsuccessful quest for Palestinian statehood. You are
absolutely right, Congressman. That is an abiding conviction of
this administration that the best way to take the air out of
the balloon if you will, to take this cause away from these
terrible terrorist organizations and from Iran itself is to get
the Palestinians on a pathway to a negotiated State, a State
that recognizes Israel, that lives side by side with Israel and
peace.
Mr. Schneider. Ms. Pryor, I don't know if you want to add
to that at all.
Ms. Pryor. So I think we've made a number of investments
over the years to support moderate voices throughout the
region. And we can see the benefits of that, whether it's in
Libya working with journalists who are calling out
misinformation that is often by Russia or Tunisian Civil
Society who continue to press on the need to get back to
democracy. And so I think these are--it's big bang for the
buck. It's modest resources that I think over time can have an
outsized impact. Thank you.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you. Yesterday, Secretary Blinken was
asked a question about the idea of two states. We were asked
earlier about two states. But also the status of the region
before October 7th versus after October 7th. And I think the
question was put in a way that in September there was a sense
that we were on a good path.
We were talking about normalization between Saudi Arabia
and Israel. Everything wasn't addressed, but we were taking
steps to make big positive changes. The Abraham Accords I think
are one of the biggest reflect of that.
I'm proud with my colleagues here we founded the Abraham
Accords Caucus of which I'm one of the co-chairs. We continue
to work on that within the Abraham Accords Caucus. We're trying
to create a Gaza working group or we have created a Gaza
working group to focus on the need to bring first assistance
and aid and security and governance ultimately to Gaza.
But in the context of the Abraham Accords, Paul Becker
talks about this idea that both Jews and Arabs belong to the
same land. Abraham Accords recognizes that. I'd ask you to
expand the idea objective assessment if you would of how
important it is to recognize that both Jews and Arabs, Israelis
and Palestinians belong to this land and that the path to peace
is two states.
Ms. Leaf. So I think it's indisputable that this status quo
does not work for--the status quo being five million
Palestinians to the east and to the west of Israel in a State
of everything ranging from unhappiness to frustration to range
to despair to militancy. It's a terrible recipe for militancy
for radicalization. And Israel sits squarely between these
communities.
And again, it's a backdrop of a longstanding longing for a
State of their own. So objectively, I can't see any other
alternative. The status quo is terrible and it's been
weaponized by Iran in the most malign fashion.
And it radicalizes people. On the other hand, you have a
set of states, those who had longstanding relations with
Israel, Jordan and Egypt, those newcomers, or those who
resumed, Morocco, Bahrain, UAE. They retain the avid desire not
just to keep up the relationship but to deepen it, to expand
it, and to see other people join that community, other states
join that community.
And that is the work that we are continuing to sort of keep
the burners on and with specific regard to Saudi Arabia. As I
said earlier, that is a specific opportunity that we would like
to leverage. It will need to be on the other side of this
conflict. But I think the other side of this conflict opens up
a lot of possibilities.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you for the
extended time. I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congressman Brad Schneider
of Illinois. In cooperation with Ranking Member Dean Phillips,
we now will proceed with the second round because what you're
doing is so important. In fact, Ms. Pryor, I have always been
so impressed about what the United States Agency of
International Development has done.
I always cherish my visits to Afghanistan to see the
clasped hands of the U.S. and Afghan flags with an arrow
leading a school. And I like to point out that at that time the
sign was rusty. The people liked it there because it would've
been very easy to take down.
And then to see little girls going to school with white
scarfs and little guys going to school with baseball caps which
were are not indigenous to Afghanistan. And it's so sad now to
know that so much of that is being reversed. But it was such a
great effort.
And, additionally, I visited Syrian refugee camps. And,
gosh, what a positive experience to see how well organized. And
these were half TEUs. This was not a tent. People had actually
put a real effort into creating a society to see young people
going to schools, even seeing a business area being set up,
small businesses, commercial enterprise, revealing how capable
that people are.
But a concern I have has been the Gaza pier. Three hundred
and 20 million dollars. To me, that is so irresponsible for the
American taxpayers to spend that much money and then find out
that the aid that's being transported is being diverted, not to
the people of Gaza. And so what efforts are being made to make
every effort that whatever aid there in Gaza goes to the people
who need it most and not Hamas?
Ms. Pryor. Thank you. Yes, we share that concern. The pier
is intended to be another way to expand humanitarian assistance
delivery. But really, it's no substitute for the land access,
no substitute.
Yes, we did have a concerning incident yesterday in which
some of the assistance that came off of the pier was desperate
people, desperate people taking it for themselves. However, I
am happy to say we have been able to confirm that two-thirds of
it has managed to make it through for formal, proper
distribution. We are currently working with the U.N. and the
Israelis to see what it is that we can collectively do to
prevent this.
I'm afraid the breakdown of social order in Gaza has been
challenging. And the answer to keep desperate populations from
just taking the aid off of the trucks is to flood aid into Gaza
so there's no reason to. Thank you.
Mr. Wilson. Well, whatever effort can be made. And of
course, to me an overriding concern, Madam Secretary, is the
potential of a nuclear Iran. I'm just so concerned that the
destabilization that will occur with our great allies of the
region and even more the existential threat to the people of
Israel, existential to the people of the United States.
They're developing ICBMs for a single reason. It's not for
weather research. It's to ultimately fulfill their dream of
death to Israel, death to America. So what is being done to
block in every way these stockpiling of highly enriched
uranium? What's being done because this is as existential for
all of us?
Ms. Leaf. I absolutely agree with you, Congressman. And I
don't have to repeat. But I'll just say since 2018 when we
withdrew from the JCPOA, we really lost eyes on in many ways
and lost the restraints that were otherwise there on Iran.
Iran has not shown a particular appetite or seriousness
about nuclear diplomacy as we call it. But we are--the
President remains committed to seeing that Iran never has a
nuclear weapon. So we are using all the tools at our disposal
and we're working with multilaterally as well as bilaterally on
sanctions and disruption activities.
And on the one hand, we've seen the steady accretion of
fissile material. We have not yet but we watch very closely
seeing steps taken that would move toward weaponization of
that. But that is an overriding concern for the administration.
Mr. Wilson. Well, every effort must be made because a
nuclear Iran to me with their view of Armageddon, it's just got
to be addressed. And I wish you well. But the duplicity of the
JCPOA, they had no intent. That was a delay tactic. So with
that, we, again, need to be working together. And showing that
we do, I now recognize Ranking Member Dean Phillips.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Pryor, I want to
ask about both Tunisia and Lebanon starting with Tunisia. The
zeroing out of the development assistance account is troubling.
Administrator Powers in her recent testimony to Congress
indicated the same as it relates to investing and protecting
rights and democracy in Tunisia. So I welcome your thoughts on
that and how we can continue to do so if we are eliminating
that budget.
Ms. Pryor. Thank you. So the decrease in Tunisia's budget
is very much a reflection of the democratic backsliding in the
country and the hard choices we have to make across the region
about where we invest our funds. However, we are preserving
within the budget the same percentage of assistance for civil
society as we have in the past. Civil society is key to holding
the President of Tunisia accountable in pushing back on the
democratic backsliding. And so our commitment to those
organizations remains.
Mr. Phillips. Can you give a little bit more detailed
example of how that works and how those dollars are used to
that end?
Ms. Pryor. So, for example, we had a youth training program
on leadership. And three of our--actually, six of our
participants ran for the legislature and three of them were
elected. So we now have a small foothold of moderate voices
going in to Tunisia's deliberative bodies.
Mr. Phillips. It goes without saying. I'm sure you would
concur it's a little bit of the chicken and the egg. If we
withdraw resources because of the backsliding, how can we
reduce the backsliding? So I still find that troublesome I have
to say.
Lebanon, we're all aware of the political and economic
crisis. Administrator Powers, of course, spoke about the mass
displacement of civilians along the Lebanese-Israel border. Can
you speak to ways that USAID is trying to address this other
humanitarian issue that is not getting nearly the attention
that I think it needs?
Ms. Pryor. Yes, Lebanon has been just wracked by a terrible
economic crisis that the World Bank calls one of the worst in
150 years. Just to begin with going into the current conflict
in the region. But Hezbollah's attacks on Israel has now
spawned another humanitarian crisis in the south of Lebanon.
Approximately 93,000 Lebanese have been displaced as a result
of Hezbollah's actions.
And they have lost their livelihoods. Their children are
losing out on education. And so our budget request asks for a
modest increase in Lebanon to help these people rebuild their
lives, whether it's the opportunity to return to the
communities of origin or if they have to start anew in another
community.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. Thank you. Ms. Leaf, relative to the
livelihood support that has run out now for the LAF and the
ISF, I think in December, are there ways that we can be
supporting those institutions in Lebanon to provide some
degree, a modicum of civility?
Ms. Leaf. Yes. And I mean, part of the way we're doing that
aside from the funding streams, the FMF, we are working
assiduously in a couple of directions. One is diplomatic with a
set of partners putting pressure frankly on the Lebanese
parliament, the Lebanese political chieftains to do their job
which is to elect a new President that will set up an empowered
cabinet and a Prime Minister.
And on the other hand, my colleague, Amos Hochstein,
continues his work side by side with our Ambassador Lisa
Johnson in Beirut to do the backdoor sort of de-escalation
efforts between Israel and Hezbollah. And at the point when we
move to a cease-fire, his work will begin in a proper formal
way. And that will--we're looking--at that point through that
process, we would look at a more bolstered effort for that but
coupled with the border demarcation work.
Mr. Phillips. Okay. On that subject, is there a chance do
you think of a permanent border demarcation agreement?
Ms. Leaf. Hope springs eternal. That's what we're aiming
for.
Mr. Phillips. Good. And then last, another refugee crisis,
of course, the Syrian refugees in Lebanon. And I think a
scapegoat for their economic challenges and whatnot. What are
we doing to support them specifically?
Ms. Leaf. Of course, we do a lot of work through our
humanitarian funding across the region. We have demands in
every direction. We are also redoubling our efforts with the
Lebanese government not to target them, not to do anything that
would look like refoulement, but to allow them access to the
same funds.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you. And quickly, Ms. Pryor, anything
USAID on that subject of Syrian refugees quickly.
Ms. Pryor. Yes, on our side, in addition to providing
humanitarian assistance, one way which we do is using
electronic vouchers. So Syrian refugees pump money into the
Lebanese economy. But on the development side, what we have
done is we work with the Lebanese communities that are hosting
these refugees to reduce the toll on the communities.
So for example, we have helped these communities expand
schools to accommodate Syrian refugee children. We have helped
communities improve their water pumping stations and wastewater
treatment to accommodate the extra pressures that the refugees
are putting on this critical infrastructure. So that this way,
the Lebanese don't also suffer along with the Syrian refugees.
Mr. Phillips. Thank you both, and I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congressman Phillips. And
I want to commend you, Ms. Pryor. The voucher system really
works. That's very creative. And to address again in Syria the
thought that half of the population, 14 million people, due to
the Assad dictatorship, they've lost their homes, businesses,
their mosques, their church. But thank goodness we've got good
people like Kathy Manning now who try to get things back on
track.
Ms. Manning. I assume you're turning it over to me, Mr.
Chairman. Thank you. I appreciate that. Actually, well, let's
stick with Syria and Lebanon for just a minute.
You have described a really terrible situation in Lebanon
which we are all aware of. And it's because of Hezbollah. It's
because of Iran. It's because of all the refugees that have
been forced out of their homes in Syria because of Assad. What,
if anything, can be done with regard to Lebanon? Is there any
chance of pushing Hezbollah out?
Ms. Leaf. Honestly, not at this time. There's no
institution. There's no element of society that can come up
against Hezbollah. But I think one thing that was--may have
been missing from your litany, Congresswoman, is the
responsibility of Lebanon's own politicians to put their house
in order, that's where the work begins.
To put a fully empowered government in place that will
undertake critical economic reforms that will raise the country
from its dire State. They're in a gridlock of their devising.
And so yes, they lose control over anything, including the
degree to which Hezbollah drags Lebanon into a war.
Ms. Manning. Well, that makes me think about the innocent
Palestinian people in Gaza who have not been able to create any
kind of a responsible government. When you think about all of
the 400 miles of underground tunnels, sophisticated tunnels and
all the building equipment that went into those tunnels to be
used for a war rather than that equipment could've been used to
build houses and schools and businesses. Why have the people in
Gaza been unable to get rid of Hamas?
Ms. Leaf. I think it's--if you look at footage of the
events back in 2006, 2007, people were being thrown off
rooftops----
Ms. Manning. By Hamas?
Ms. Leaf [continuing]. By Hamas. And those were other
Palestinian political elements, Fatah and others. It's been a
reign of terror, and it's been a very closed off piece of
territory. So it's not surprising in a sense.
I want to see at the end of this conflict on the other side
of it the opportunity for Palestinians of Gaza really to enjoy
the fruits of selecting their own leadership and running their
own affairs.
Ms. Manning. So let me ask you about UNRWA because I
question whether the underlying mandate of UNRWA which has been
only to assist the refugees, not to help them build new lives,
not to resettle them, whether that underlying mandate has been
a fundamental problem that has perhaps prolonged the conflict.
As we know, the mandate of the U.N. Commission--High Commission
on Refugees has a much broader mandate. That mandate is
actually not just to care for the refugees but to help them
build new lives. And we also know not only has UNRWA become--in
UNRWA probably the largest employer in Gaza but UNRWA employees
participated in the horrendous and grotesque October 7th
attack. What should happen with UNRWA when this conflict is
over?
Ms. Leaf. So look, I think there are a number of important
investigations that will lay out the course of reform that
UNRWA should undertake, that the U.N. should ensure that it
undertake. The question of the mandate I think obviously is
something for the U.N. General Assembly. It's not something
that's going to be solved by member states at this point. I
think the functions that UNRWA has had, the core functions it's
had in Gaza in particular, there simply hasn't been another
organization that has done those--taken up those functions.
Ms. Manning. But has the notion that UNRWA is to provide
not only food but schooling for the Palestinians, removed that
fundamental governmental obligation from Hamas?
Ms. Leaf. No, I think--well, I think what occurred in the
events of 2007 and what's been the reality since is you've had
a terrorist organization running that strip of land. And nobody
could contest that, not the people, not an organization. On the
other hand, to your question about where do we go from here, we
have to remember also that UNRWA has these critical functions
in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and on the West Bank.
And again, we don't have another organization that can do
that. And government of Jordan cannot take on all of those
obligations, nor Syria, nor Lebanon. In any case, I think the
question of settling the larger question of refugees and in
every country it really comes back to a political process. And
that's the answer.
Ms. Manning. Well, I want to thank you both for all of your
hard work and your service. And let me close by saying I sure
wish we were seeing protests against Hamas. Thank you.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Kathy
Manning. We'll now proceed for our final but very distinguished
member, Congressman Brad Schneider of Illinois.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you, Chairman. And just to get some
things on the record in talking about Gaza, since President
Biden spoke to Congress 2 months ago, has Israel sought to
surge aid into Gaza?
Ms. Leaf. I'm sorry. Did you say have they----
Mr. Schneider. Has Israel sought to surge more aid into
Gaza since President Biden spoke to Congress 2 months ago?
Ms. Leaf. Yes, yes.
Mr. Schneider. And is Israel working with U.S. and others
to deconflict distribution of aid within the Gaza strip?
Ms. Leaf. I'm going to let Jeanne add to my answer. But the
deconfliction mechanism is inadequate at this time.
Ms. Pryor. Yes, we continue to work with the Israeli
government on improving deconfliction and trying to introduce
best practices from other conflict environments. But a lot of
work remains to be done.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you. Is Hamas intentionally seeking to
disrupt aid coming into Gaza and getting throughout Gaza?
Ms. Leaf. It's seeking to control it where it can. And that
is--there's also a high degree of lawlessness. But Hamas is an
actor in that.
Mr. Schneider. Okay. Let me shift gears and talk to--I like
the term you used, the other side of the conflict. Is any
progress being made on an ensuring Hamas isn't able to return
to control of Gaza after the conflict?
Ms. Leaf. It's an ongoing effort.
Mr. Schneider. And in discussing--there's been talk about a
multinational force in Gaza, countries in the region calling on
the U.S. to actually put boots on the ground. Is there
discussion of U.S. troops on the ground in Gaza?
Ms. Leaf. The President has made clear he has no intention
of having U.S. forces in Gaza.
Mr. Schneider. Okay. And again, for you, Ambassador Leaf.
Can you talk about your bureau, the NEA's role in planning for
the day after Gaza and a better future for all people in the
Middle East?
Ms. Leaf. So in addition to the terrific staff that I am
privileged to lead in the bureau, I have a set of staff
dedicated to this proposition and drawn from different sectors
with different experience. I also rely on several of our
chiefs-of-mission in the field now who have extensive
experience on Israel-Palestinian matters.. So we work on this
on a daily basis. And it is--that team helps provide thinking
and direction for the Secretary's own engagements.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you. Within the context of looking to
the future for the region, I asked earlier in my first round
about U.S. leadership in the region and that commitment. But
China is also seeking to play a role--a competitive role. Can
you talk about how you're advocating within State and whether
SMP or other forums to make sure that we have a comprehensive
long-term strategy for the broader MENA region vis-a-vis what's
going on in the world with China and Russia?
Ms. Leaf. A couple of things about process. Of course we're
very fortunate to have the expertise at the top of our
leadership and the Deputy Secretary Kirk Campbell. We also have
China House.
We have personnel overseas including in my region who are
dedicated to the work of looking at China's engagements,
activities, whether it's in the information space, economic,
military, what have you. So we have a rich sort of architecture
for working on these issues. But let me just draw a contrast if
I could in how the U.S. leads in the region versus what China
is doing.
On the fundamental existential issues that confront the
region, Gaza, Red Sea security, attacks by Iran and its
proxies, you will see the U.S. leading in all of those domains.
Whether on the hostage negotiations, on the relief effort for
Gazan civilians, whether it's on questions that relate to the
Palestinians in general, you see the U.S. leading on that.
China has large and growing economic relations.
China has been missing in action on Red Sea security,
absolutely missing in action. And it's been missing in action
on all the other fundamental critical pieces that relate to the
security and stability of this region, whether it's--and it has
relations with Iran. But it does not appear to use that
relationship to any purpose when it comes to constraining Iran
and its use of its proxies, whether against Israel or against
anyone else. And by the way, I'm not aware that the PRC has
ever condemned October 7th.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you. And last as we finish where we
began, the hostages, there are 128 hostages still in Gaza
including eight Americans. We know that more than 30 are
deceased. We assume five of the Americans are still alive.
We've already mentioned it, but I want to emphasize the
urgency of rescuing these hostages and doing everything we can
to rescue all the hostages, including the American eight.
There's reports of ongoing sexual violence. There was a video
released yesterday that showed the capture of five of these
women. And with permission of the chairman, I'd like to be able
to show that video now.
Mr. Wilson. Absolutely. Without objection.
Mr. Schneider. Thank you. I don't know if we can get the
volume.
[Video shown.]
Mr. Schneider. Since there's no volume, I will narrate. But
this is a video of Hamas terrorists on October 7th. This is
video taken from the cameras of Hamas found in Gaza by the IDF
as they were operating in Gaza.
These are five women soldiers. The video has been edited
because they're not showing the many dead bodies that are
included in this film. It's taken over a period of 2 hours.
And what's heard or being shown in the words is the
terrorist talking to these women. At one point, it's overheard
one of the terrorist saying these are prisoners we can
impregnate. These women are still being held in Gaza.
I think you can imagine the importance of bringing them
home. You see in this video horrific images of blood, bloody
prisoners clearly who have been beaten by their attackers. You
see him saying, you are so beautiful, to one of the women. The
terrorist is saying that.
So the video shows the capture of hostages, an absolute war
crime, crime against humanity. These women are still being
held. We assume they are being physically abused, sexually
abused.
I had the privilege of seeing Sheryl Sandberg's move
Silence After Screams. Sexual violence should be condemned
anywhere. It is unfortunate in this case not only is it being
ignored, it is being denied. I think you can see from these
pictures. I hope we do everything we can to get all these
hostages home as soon as possible, including the American
eight. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Wilson. Thank you very much, Congressman Schneider. And
it just can't be understated the horror, the barbarism, the
inhumanity of persons on amphetamines who actually videoed what
they were doing of the mass slaughter and the sexual attacks on
women on October 7th. And truly, Madam Secretary, we're talking
about people in general but also American citizens. Thirty-five
were murdered and another six I believe have identified as
being captive.
With that in mind, I want to thank the witnesses for their
valuable testimony. I want to thank the dedicated staff of the
Foreign Affairs Committed and the members for their questions.
The members of the subcommittee may have some additional
questions for the witnesses, and we will ask you to respond to
those in writing. Pursuant to the committee rules, all members
have 5 days to submit statements, questions, and extraneous
materials for the record subject to length limitations. Without
objection, the subcommittee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:18 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
APPENDIX
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