[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
AMERICAN CONFIDENCE IN ELECTIONS: LOOKING
AHEAD TO THE 2024 GENERAL ELECTION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
ADMINISTRATION
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 11, 2024
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
www.govinfo.gov
www.cha.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-705 WASHINGTON : 2024
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION
BRYAN STEIL, Wisconsin, Chairman
BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia Ranking Member
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma NORMA TORRES, California
MIKE CAREY, Ohio DEREK KILMER, Washington
ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO, New York
LAUREL LEE, Florida
Mike Platt, Staff Director
Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Opening Statements
Chairman Bryan Steil, Representative from the State of Wisconsin. 1
Prepared statement of Chairman Bryan Steil................... 3
Ranking Member Joseph Morelle, Representative from the State of
New York....................................................... 4
Prepared statement of Ranking Member Joseph Morelle.......... 6
Witnesses
Cord Byrd, Florida Secretary of State............................ 8
Prepared statement of Cord Byrd.............................. 11
Frank LaRose, Ohio Secretary of State............................ 13
Prepared statement of Frank LaRose........................... 15
Mac Warner, West Virginia Secretary of State..................... 19
Prepared statement of Mac Warner............................. 21
Maggie Toulouse Oliver, New Mexico Secretary of State............ 26
Prepared statement of Maggie Toulouse Oliver................. 28
Jocelyn Benson, Michigan Secretary of State...................... 35
Prepared statement of Jocelyn Benson......................... 37
Adrian Fontes, Arizona Secretary of State........................ 41
Prepared statement of Adrian Fontes.......................... 44
Submissions for the Record
Cline and Swoboda letter......................................... 66
Questions for the Record
Adrian Fontes answers to submitted questions..................... 73
Jocelyn Benson answers to submitted questions.................... 96
AMERICAN CONFIDENCE IN ELECTIONS: LOOKING AHEAD TO THE 2024 GENERAL
ELECTION
----------
September 11, 2024
Committee on House Administration,
House of Representatives,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9:34 a.m., in
room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Steil, Loudermilk, Griffith,
Murphy, Bice, Carey, D'Esposito, Lee, Morelle, Torres, and
Kilmer.
Staff present: March Bell, Parliamentarian; Jackie Bossman,
Counsel; Annemarie Cake, Professional Staff and Deputy Clerk;
Alexander Deise, Counsel; Thomas Lane, Elections Counsel and
Director of Elections Coalitions; Kristen Monterroso, Director
of Operations and Legislative Clerk; Marrisa Mullen, Deputy
Director of Member Services; Michael Platt, Staff Director;
Jordan Wilson, Director of Member Services; Khalil Abboud,
Minority Deputy Staff Director; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff
Director; Sarah Nasta, Minority Elections Counsel; Matt
Schlesinger, Minority Senior Counsel; and Sean Wright, Minority
Chief Counsel.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. BRYAN STEIL, CHAIRMAN OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM
WISCONSIN
Chairman Steil. The Committee on House Administration will
come to order. I note that a quorum is present.
Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any
time.
Also, without objection, the hearing record will remain
open for 5 legislative days so Members may submit any materials
they wish to be included therein.
Thank you, Ranking Member Morelle, Members of the
Committee, and witnesses for participating in today's hearing.
I do not think it is lost on any of us that we are gathered
today on September 11th, a day where, 23 years ago, our country
was attacked by terrorists. Countless Americans lost their
lives, including first responders. I think, as we look back at
that moment, I think almost everybody of age here in the room
remembers where they were on 9/11 as that news came in, but it
is also maybe a moment to reflect that this country has come
together to address some of the biggest challenges we have ever
seen. In that case, terrorism. We have also done that
throughout the history of this country, and so we have
opportunities to come together and take on the biggest
challenges we face.
Today the Committee on House Administration will continue
its oversight of our Nation's elections. We are now 55 days
away from election day. Voting has begun in some States.
Delaware has already mailed out ballots, and absentee ballots
in my home State of Wisconsin will be mailed out by next week.
With us today are six Secretaries of State who are here to
discuss their preparations for the upcoming election. The
purpose of the hearing is to fully review and explore the
status of States' election preparedness. We will cover an array
of topics. We will hear from Ohio about the recent effort to
remove noncitizen voters. Florida has unique challenges with
natural disasters. Each State faces unique challenges in their
election administration. By ensuring States are properly
equipped to administer their elections, more Americans can have
confidence in how our elections run and the results.
As we approach November 5th, Americans remain concerned
about election integrity. As Chairman, I am committed to
working with States to ensure elections run smoothly and
without foreign interference. More confidence leads to greater
participation, which is a good thing for our country. I am
going to continue to work to strengthen election integrity.
This Committee has passed comprehensive election integrity
legislation this Congress. We passed the SAVE Act. We worked to
stop influence from private and foreign funding in our
elections. This week we are rolling out the House Election
Observer Program to ensure our elections are run smoothly,
fairly, and accurately.
We have invited you here to discuss the upcoming elections
and explore your preparations in your respective States.
Ensuring our elections are secure is of utmost importance. I
will continue to ensure this Committee keeps to work to
strengthening our elections.
As mentioned above, and as you know and as each of you
know, the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act, or SAVE
Act, would require proof of U.S. citizenship to vote. I am
still working for this bill to be signed into law. We took this
action after seeing evidence of noncitizens on voter rolls in
many States across the country. While all 50 States allow legal
noncitizens to receive driver's licenses, 20 States allow
illegal immigrants to receive them also.
Under the MVRA, or the motor voter law, voter registration
forms are provided to everyone who receives a driver's license,
regardless of whether or not the applicant is a citizen.
Because noncitizens can receive driver's licenses in every
State, they inevitably will receive voter registration forms,
even though they cannot vote in Federal elections. As a result,
we have seen States take steps to remove those citizens, those
noncitizens from their voter rolls. For example, over 500
noncitizens were removed from the voter rolls in Ohio, and we
are thankful that Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose is here
to testify on that topic today.
Another issue we will discuss today is States' preparedness
for the upcoming elections. As we learned in 2020 and 2022, it
is crucial for States to have contingency plans in the event of
an emergency on or before election day. Americans deserve to
have confidence that their State's election officials have a
plan in place that will ensure every vote is counted according
to law regardless of outside factors.
The Committee has also provided States with resources
through the Uniform State ACE Act. The Uniform State ACE Act is
a tool kit providing States with 13 specific election integrity
measures to increase voters confidence and promote election
integrity. The tool kit was provided to every State and respect
State autonomy ensuring that reforms can be tailored and are
effective at the local level while still aligning with national
objectives to enhance election integrity.
The Committee is here to assist States in ensuring
elections are fair and secure through other resources as well.
One of those resources is the House Election Observer Program.
I am looking forward to discussing the program with each of our
Secretaries of State here today and confirming that you will
participate and provide unimpeded access to our observers to
ensure free, fair, and secure elections.
A big part of keeping elections secure means keeping them
free from foreign influence. As Chairman of this Committee, I
have launched an investigation into a major fundraising
platform after concerns were brought forward about potential
funding from foreign sources. I have also introduced the Shield
Act, which prevents political fundraising platforms from
accepting pre-paid debit and credit cards. It is imperative
that this Committee continues to work to protect American
elections and do all we can to assist States in doing the same.
I believe secure and fair elections are the backbone of our
democracy. As we approach the upcoming Federal election, it is
imperative that we take a close look at how each Secretary of
State will implement Federal and State election laws to
guarantee every legal vote counts. I look forward to having an
in-depth and productive conversation with each of you today.
I will now recognize the Ranking Member Mr. Morelle for 5
minutes for the purpose of providing his opening statement.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Steil follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF CHAIRMAN OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
ADMINISTRATION BRYAN STEIL
Today the Committee on House Administration will continue
its oversight of our Nation's elections. We are now 55 days
away from election day. Voting has begun in some States.
Delaware has already mailed out ballots, and absentee ballots
in my home State of Wisconsin will be mailed out by next week.
With us today are six Secretaries of State who are here to
discuss their preparations for the upcoming election. The
purpose of the hearing is to fully review and explore the
status of States' election preparedness. We will cover an array
of topics. We will hear from Ohio about the recent effort to
remove noncitizen voters. Florida has unique challenges with
natural disasters. Each State faces unique challenges in their
election administration. By ensuring States are properly
equipped to administer their elections, more Americans can have
confidence in how our elections run and the results.
As we approach November 5th, Americans remain concerned
about election integrity. As Chairman, I am committed to
working with States to ensure elections run smoothly and
without foreign interference. More confidence leads to greater
participation, which is a good thing for our country. I am
going to continue to work to strengthen election integrity.
This Committee has passed comprehensive election integrity
legislation this Congress. We passed the SAVE Act. We worked to
stop influence from private and foreign funding in our
elections. This week we are rolling out the House Election
Observer Program to ensure our elections are run smoothly,
fairly, and accurately.
We have invited you here to discuss the upcoming elections
and explore your preparations in your respective States.
Ensuring our elections are secure is of utmost importance. I
will continue to ensure this Committee keeps to work to
strengthening our elections.
As mentioned above, and as you know and as each of you
know, the Safeguard American Voter Eligibility Act, or SAVE
Act, would require proof of U.S. citizenship to vote. I am
still working for this bill to be signed into law. We took this
action after seeing evidence of noncitizens on voter rolls in
many States across the country. While all 50 States allow legal
noncitizens to receive driver's licenses, 20 States allow
illegal immigrants to receive them also.
Under the MVRA, or the motor voter law, voter registration
forms are provided to everyone who receives a driver's license,
regardless of whether or not the applicant is a citizen.
Because noncitizens can receive driver's licenses in every
State, they inevitably will receive voter registration forms,
even though they cannot vote in Federal elections. As a result,
we have seen States take steps to remove those citizens, those
noncitizens from their voter rolls. For example, over 500
noncitizens were removed from the voter rolls in Ohio, and we
are thankful that Ohio Secretary of State Frank LaRose is here
to testify on that topic today.
Another issue we will discuss today is States' preparedness
for the upcoming elections. As we learned in 2020 and 2022, it
is crucial for States to have contingency plans in the event of
an emergency on or before election day. Americans deserve to
have confidence that their State's election officials have a
plan in place that will ensure every vote is counted according
to law regardless of outside factors.
The Committee has also provided States with resources
through the Uniform State ACE Act. The Uniform State ACE Act is
a tool kit providing States with 13 specific election integrity
measures to increase voters confidence and promote election
integrity. The tool kit was provided to every State and respect
State autonomy ensuring that reforms can be tailored and are
effective at the local level while still aligning with national
objectives to enhance election integrity.
The Committee is here to assist States in ensuring
elections are fair and secure through other resources as well.
One of those resources is the House Election Observer Program.
I am looking forward to discussing the program with each of our
Secretaries of State here today and confirming that you will
participate and provide unimpeded access to our observers to
ensure free, fair, and secure elections.
A big part of keeping elections secure means keeping them
free from foreign influence. As Chairman of this Committee, I
have launched an investigation into a major fundraising
platform after concerns were brought forward about potential
funding from foreign sources. I have also introduced the Shield
Act, which prevents political fundraising platforms from
accepting pre-paid debit and credit cards. It is imperative
that this Committee continues to work to protect American
elections and do all we can to assist States in doing the same.
I believe secure and fair elections are the backbone of our
democracy. As we approach the upcoming Federal election, it is
imperative that we take a close look at how each Secretary of
State will implement Federal and State election laws to
guarantee every legal vote counts. I look forward to having an
in-depth and productive conversation with each of you today.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH MORELLE, RANKING MEMBER OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HOUSE ADMINISTRATION, A U.S. REPRESENTATIVE FROM
NEW YORK
Mr. Morelle. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman Steil.
Let me also begin by offering words of remembrance for both
the victims of 9/11 and the first responders who responded and
to always thank all of America for its response in defense of
New York. I was in New York City on the day of the attacks, and
I know--knew firsthand the horror that day brought. I want to
thank everyone for keeping all the victims and first responders
in their prayers.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for calling this hearing and thank
you to all the Secretaries for being here. We know you have a
tremendous amount of work ahead of you to ensure upcoming
election is secure and fair. We are 55 days from election day.
I do not think I probably have to tell the Secretaries that.
They know that very well. In 10 days, ballots will be sent to
military and overseas voters, and soon States will begin
mailing out their absentee mail-in ballots, and as the
Secretaries here know better than anyone, preparations are well
under way for early and election day in-person voting.
The 2024 election is here. Undoubtedly, there are many
challenges ahead. Election officials are operating in an
election season that continues to be marred by a steady
drumbeat of mis- and disinformation. We have only just begun to
see the danger posed by the maligned use of artificial
intelligence, and this is not a speculative fair. In Michigan,
as Secretary Benson knows all too well, a Republican candidate
for Congress used an AI-generated audio of Martin Luther King,
Jr., purporting to endorse him in a political campaign. I know,
it is shocking to even think of it, but there you go. In New
Hampshire, an AI-generated audio of President Biden was used to
call voters and discourage them from participating in the
Presidential primary in that State.
Our foreign adversaries, as the Chairman has mentioned, are
designing influence campaigns that leverage our flawed
information environment to spread falsehoods about political
candidates and parties, and just last week, the United States
Department of Justice unsealed indictments against two Russian
employees of the Kremlin-backed media outlet RT, which used to
stand for Russia Today, so I do not think there is any question
about where they are from, for violating the Foreign Agents
Registration Act and money laundering to publish and
disseminate content favorable to the Russian government.
Separately, the DOJ seized more than 30 web domains that were
part of a broader ongoing effort by the Russian Government to
interfere in and influence the 2024 election and American
public opinion.
On top of this, domestic actors continue to spread lies and
disinformation about the voting process and the security and
integrity of our elections, and 4 years later continuing
questioning the results of the free and fair 2020 election. For
months, we have heard the former President and others refuse to
say whether they will accept the outcome of the election or
condition their acceptance within if they are free and fair,
which undermines Americans confidence that our elections are,
in fact, fair and secure.
Just last week, former President Trump insisted in a Fox
News interview that he had heard--that he had every right--I am
quoting him--every right to interfere in the 2020 election
saying, quote, ``whoever heard you get indicted for interfering
with a Presidential election where you have every right to do
it.''
Mr. President, there is no such right.
It should go without saying no one has the right to
interfere with elections and that includes the President of the
United States. I would hope that none of my colleagues on
either side of the aisle here today would support those false
claims.
Additionally, election officials continue to face an
unprecedented number of threats and significant harassment
simply for doing their jobs. One Secretary of State tracked a
600-percent increase in threats this year alone. While these
challenges are serious, our democracy is strong. We will
overcome the effects and the efforts of our foreign
adversaries. Americans will not succumb to the torrent of mis-
and disinformation.
Let me speak clearly now for every American here, our
elections are secure. There is, however, more work for Congress
to do. Election officials take on the essential but often
thankless task of running elections and face increased threats
with too little and inconsistent funding from Congress. In
Fiscal Year 2024, Congress appropriated $55 million to States
and U.S. territories in election security grants, but we must
do more to fully fund our elections.
As Ranking Member and a Member of the Appropriations
Committee, I will continue pushing for additional consistent
election funding. Election officials, their staffs, and poll
workers need and deserve our support. Voters deserve truthful
information about when, where, and how to register and how to
cast their ballots, and they deserve truthful information about
the integrity of our elections. Providing support and accurate
information will show election workers that administer that we
are supporting them.
Today we have the opportunity to hear from our six
Secretaries about how they are preparing. Democracy is on the
line this November. Each of you is critical to that success. We
have to continue fighting to protect our elections and those
that run them.
I also want to just take a moment to thank my colleague,
Representative Mike Carey, and the Chairman. I am pleased to
have worked with them to pass a bipartisan bill Monday that
would codify the House's longstanding Congressional Election
Observer Program. I am grateful to all the work we have done
and look forward to working with the chair over the next 2
months to continue this bipartisan and importantly nonpartisan
observer program, which House staff serve in their official
capacity as neutral fact-gathering election observers, so I
look forward to hearing from our witnesses. Thank you for all
the work that you do and let us make sure that every American
has free, fair, and secure access to the ballots this November.
With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Ranking Member Morelle follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER OF THE COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
ADMINISTRATION JOSEPH MORELLE
We are 55 days from election day. I do not think I probably
have to tell the Secretaries that. They know that very well. In
10 days, ballots will be sent to military and overseas voters,
and soon States will begin mailing out their absentee mail-in
ballots, and as the Secretaries here know better than anyone,
preparations are well under way for early and election day in-
person voting.
The 2024 election is here. Undoubtedly, there are many
challenges ahead. Election officials are operating in an
election season that continues to be marred by a steady
drumbeat of mis- and disinformation. We have only just begun to
see the danger posed by the maligned use of artificial
intelligence, and this is not a speculative fair. In Michigan,
as Secretary Benson knows all too well, a Republican candidate
for Congress used an AI-generated audio of Martin Luther King,
Jr., purporting to endorse him in a political campaign. I know,
it is shocking to even think of it, but there you go. In New
Hampshire, an AI-generated audio of President Biden was used to
call voters and discourage them from participating in the
Presidential primary in that State.
Our foreign adversaries, as the Chairman has mentioned, are
designing influence campaigns that leverage our flawed
information environment to spread falsehoods about political
candidates and parties, and just last week, the United States
Department of Justice unsealed indictments against two Russian
employees of the Kremlin-backed media outlet RT, which used to
stand for Russia Today, so I do not think there is any question
about where they are from, for violating the Foreign Agents
Registration Act and money laundering to publish and
disseminate content favorable to the Russian government.
Separately, the DOJ seized more than 30 web domains that were
part of a broader ongoing effort by the Russian Government to
interfere in and influence the 2024 election and American
public opinion.
On top of this, domestic actors continue to spread lies and
disinformation about the voting process and the security and
integrity of our elections, and 4 years later continuing
questioning the results of the free and fair 2020 election. For
months, we have heard the former President and others refuse to
say whether they will accept the outcome of the election or
condition their acceptance within if they are free and fair,
which undermines Americans confidence that our elections are,
in fact, fair and secure.
Just last week, former President Trump insisted in a Fox
News interview that he had heard--that he had every right--I am
quoting him--every right to interfere in the 2020 election
saying, quote, ``whoever heard you get indicted for interfering
with a Presidential election where you have every right to do
it.''
Mr. President, there is no such right.
It should go without saying no one has the right to
interfere with elections and that includes the President of the
United States. I would hope that none of my colleagues on
either side of the aisle here today would support those false
claims.
Additionally, election officials continue to face an
unprecedented number of threats and significant harassment
simply for doing their jobs. One Secretary of State tracked a
600-percent increase in threats this year alone. While these
challenges are serious, our democracy is strong. We will
overcome the effects and the efforts of our foreign
adversaries. Americans will not succumb to the torrent of mis-
and disinformation.
Let me speak clearly now for every American here, our
elections are secure. There is, however, more work for Congress
to do. Election officials take on the essential but often
thankless task of running elections and face increased threats
with too little and inconsistent funding from Congress. In
Fiscal Year 2024, Congress appropriated $55 million to States
and U.S. territories in election security grants, but we must
do more to fully fund our elections.
As Ranking Member and a Member of the Appropriations
Committee, I will continue pushing for additional consistent
election funding. Election officials, their staffs, and poll
workers need and deserve our support. Voters deserve truthful
information about when, where, and how to register and how to
cast their ballots, and they deserve truthful information about
the integrity of our elections. Providing support and accurate
information will show election workers that administer that we
are supporting them.
Today we have the opportunity to hear from our six
Secretaries about how they are preparing. Democracy is on the
line this November. Each of you is critical to that success. We
have to continue fighting to protect our elections and those
that run them.
I also want to just take a moment to thank my colleague,
Representative Mike Carey, and the Chairman. I am pleased to
have worked with them to pass a bipartisan bill Monday that
would codify the House's longstanding Congressional Election
Observer Program. I am grateful to all the work we have done
and look forward to working with the chair over the next 2
months to continue this bipartisan and importantly nonpartisan
observer program, which House staff serve in their official
capacity as neutral fact-gathering election observers, so I
look forward to hearing from our witnesses. Thank you for all
the work that you do and let us make sure that every American
has free, fair, and secure access to the ballots this November.
With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Steil. Without objection, all of the Members'
opening statements will be made part of the hearing record if
they are submitted to the hearing clerk by 5 p.m. Today we have
a one-witness panel featuring six Secretaries of State. From
the State of Florida, we have Secretary Cord Byrd. From the
State of Ohio, we have Secretary Frank LaRose. From West
Virginia, we have Secretary Mac Warner. From the State of New
Mexico, we have Secretary Maggie Toulouse Oliver. From the
State of Michigan, we have Secretary Jocelyn Benson. From the
State of Arizona, we have Secretary Adrian Fontes. If I did not
say West Virginia properly, I will go back and say we have the
Secretary of State of West Virginia Mac Warner. We appreciate
you being with us today. We look forward to your testimony.
Pursuant to paragraph B of Committee rule 6, the witnesses
will please stand and raise their right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Chairman Steil. Let the record show that the witnesses have
all answered in the affirmative. You may be seated.
Let me remind the witnesses that we have read your written
statements, and they'll appear in full in the hearing record.
Under Committee rule 9, you are to limit your oral presentation
to a brief summary of your written statement. I will begin by
recognizing Secretary Cord Byrd for 5 minutes.
STATEMENTS OF HON. CORD BYRD, FLORIDA SECRETARY OF STATE; THE
HONORABLE FRANK LAROSE, OHIO SECRETARY OF STATE; THE HONORABLE
MAC WARNER, WEST VIRGINIA SECRETARY OF STATE; THE HONORABLE
MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER, NEW MEXICO SECRETARY OF STATE; THE
HONORABLE JOCELYN BENSON, MICHIGAN SECRETARY OF STATE; AND THE
HONORABLE ADRIAN FONTES, ARIZONA SECRETARY OF STATE
STATEMENT OF HON. CORD BYRD
Mr. Byrd. Good morning, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member
Morelle, and Members of the Committee. Thank you for the
opportunity to be with you here today. When I was last with you
in May, we discussed the impact of Federal law on the State's
ability to conduct voter roll maintenance. With the November
general election rapidly approaching, today I will discuss
Florida's ongoing efforts in the areas of election preparation,
election observation, and contingency planning.
Election administration, when done properly, as conducted
is a 24/7, 365 days a year job not only during an election year
but in off election years as well. Since I testified before you
2 months ago, Florida has taken considerable steps to further
ensure the integrity and transparency of our elections.
Clean elections begin with clean voter rolls. Florida has
approximately 13.5 million active registered voters. That
number changes every minute of every day. A person turns 18, a
person passes away, a person moves into the State, they move
out of the State, a person becomes a U.S. citizen and registers
to vote for the first time, a person becomes a felon or a
person has their voting rights restored.
To that end, since 2022, Florida has either removed or
moved to inactive status one million voters. The ability to
promptly and accurately maintain clean voter rolls is part of
the legislative reforms championed by Governor Ron DeSantis.
Properly maintained voter rolls are essential to building
confidence in the outcome of elections.
Rulemaking allows the department to respond to issues as
they arise when the legislature is not in session. For example,
one rule increases--one new rule increases reporting
requirements for voter registration agencies, specifically any
such agency that obtains information that an individual
receiving Government services is not a U.S. citizen must
provide that information to the Department of State to be
compared against the voter roll.
To ensure ballots are adjudicated uniformly the same across
all 67 counties, the department has updated its polling place
procedures to provide for uniform statewide operations of
polling places. The procedures also include direction to
supervisors of elections to ensure that spoiled ballots at
polling places cannot be counted.
Finally, the department updated its statewide rule on voter
intent, creating a newly formatted mandatory handbook for
county canvassing boards to use when making voter intent
determinations during vote by mail canvassing and recounts.
Voting system uniformity is another key to Florida's
success. Some States allow local election officials to procure
voting systems. We believe this is the wrong approach. In
Florida, no voting system can be used in any election unless it
has first been tested and certified by the State. The rigorous
testing we conduct gives us the ability to eliminate problems
before ballots are cast.
Chain of custody of voting systems is applied to hardware
and software. When voting system issues arise in other States,
the department proactively contacts the vendors to determine
the root of the issue and then verify that the problem cannot
impact Florida's elections.
While we make every effort to minimize human error in
elections, mother nature also sometimes has a say. As it
happens, the typical election season coincides with hurricane
season in Florida and other coastal States. We do not move or
delay elections. As such, it is imperative that we maintain
robust emergency plans; storms, fires, floods, electrical
outages, blocked roads, It all happens. Florida is prepared for
all contingencies.
My office works closely with Florida's 67 county
supervisors of elections, and if emergencies do arise, we take
necessary steps to ensure that voters can vote. For example,
during the 2022 election cycle, Florida had two severe
hurricanes hit different parts of the State. Counties lost
polling places. Voters were displaced from their homes.
Infrastructure was severely diminished. The election still went
on. I visited the affected counties to survey the damage. We
saw firsthand the destruction and worked with supervisors of
elections in those counties to determine their needs. Governor
DeSantis then issued executive orders to provide flexibility to
supervisors to establish additional voting sites, expand vote
by mail options, and amend reporting requirements. It is
encouraging to see people perform their civic duty to vote
despite being displaced and impacted by devastating storms.
Another thing that Florida gets right is election
transparency. There are no pizza boxes, and you do not need
binoculars to view our elections. Every part of the process is
open to the public, campaigns, and candidates. Florida election
law grants access to the public to watch equipment testing, the
canvassing of ballots, and signature verification, among other
things.
Since 2020 candidates and the parties are also entitled to
reasonable access to review signatures on vote by mail ballots,
observe ballot duplication, and make objections. We want and
encourage the public to watch how their ballot becomes a vote.
We allow and encourage election observation.
Candidates in the parties can designate observers at each
precinct, and we deploy our own team of in-house observers
across the State. Our two newest election officers in Palm
Beach and Broward Counties are the national model for openness
and transparency. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.
Florida is vigilant because we continue to strengthen and hone
our election code year after year. We do not sit idle waiting
for bad things to happen in order to correct them. We cannot
run the risk of becoming complacent.
As I said in my previous testimony, and it bears repeating,
Florida is committed to ensuring that all eligible Floridians
who want to vote have the opportunity to do so. However, we are
equally committed to preventing election fraud and protecting
the integrity of Florida's voter rolls. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Byrd follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. CORD BYRD
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you, Secretary Byrd.
Secretary Frank LaRose, you are now recognized for 5
minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK LAROSE
Mr. LaRose. Well, thank you so much, Chairman Steil and
Ranking Member Morelle and Members of the Committee. As we all
have reflected since September 11th, 2001, especially those of
us that had the opportunity to serve in combat as part of the
global war on terrorism, one of the things we have thought
about is what kind of deep hatred would lead someone to launch
such a terrible attack. What I have been able to come up with
as I have thought about this over the years is that it is our
way of life, our freedoms. One of those freedoms is of course
self-determination through free and fair elections. It is what
we are here to talk about today.
There are a lot of groups out there that focus a lot on
making elections more convenient. That is great. There are a
lot of groups out there that focus on making elections more
secure. While as Secretaries of State, we do not have the
luxury of choosing one or the other; we know that you can make
elections both convenient and secure. We can make it easy to
vote and hard to cheat. That is what we have done in Ohio. That
is one of the reasons why we are nationally recognized as a
gold standard for elections administration. I look forward to
talking about that today.
One of the things that we have focused on quite a bit is
cybersecurity. During my 5 years in this office, we have done
things like put Albert intrusion censors at every county board
of elections, end point detection and response systems, network
segmentation protocols, regional cybersecurity liaisons so that
every county board of elections has access to cybersecurity
experts as well as vulnerability disclosure policies. Yes, we
can ask the good guys to try to hack us and then tell us where
there are holes in our fence so that we can patch those.
I was the first Secretary of State in America to hire a
full-time chief information security officer, and we are proud
of that. We have had five different cybersecurity directives
that have made Ohio the most cyber secure elections
administration in the Nation.
Transparency. Ohio's elections are a completely open book.
There is nothing to hide. Everything at a board of elections is
visible to the public. One of the ways that we have made that
even better is by working with the America First Policy
Institute for the development of a thing called the Data Act
that we passed in Ohio for the standardization and reporting of
election data. Essentially, it lets you look at our checkbook
and see if it balances, and that is something that we are also
quite proud of and something that we think other States should
follow.
One of the other things that we have done is what we call
registration readiness. We work to make sure that people know
what we are doing as it relates to maintaining the database of
our voter registration.
Ready for November is a program that we launched based on a
simple idea that I bring from the military that you sweat in
training so you do not bleed in battle. This is just making
sure that we are prepared long before the action starts for the
logistics of election day. Poll worker recruiting and training,
making sure that adequate supplies are on hand, et cetera. Of
course, list maintenance is one of our most important
responsibilities, and in that sense, we remove deceased voters
on a monthly basis. We check IDs, and yes, we remove
noncitizens from the voter rolls, and thank you for mentioning
that, Chairman. The fact is it is rare, but we keep it rare by
enforcing the law.
Ohioans enacted in our State constitution recently a very
clear prerogative that people of Ohio are saying that American
elections are only for American citizens. It is my duty to make
sure that we carry that out. Unfortunately, that duty is not as
easy to carry out as it should be. When we have done our
analysis of the voter rolls, we have found in just the last
year alone nearly 600 noncitizens registered to vote. We have
removed them from the voter rolls, and yes, referred them for
prosecution because, when an election law, when any law is not
enforced, it is not a law; it is a suggestion. In Ohio, that
form of voter fraud constitutes a felony, and we believe it
should be enforced.
This problem has only been compounded by the lack of border
security under the current administration, and so we know that
the problem continues to grow. Access to the SAVE database is
an imperfect instrument. The Department of Homeland Security
has allowed us access to this database, but, as many of you
know, they charge us for each query that we do. In order to do
it, it is a lot of manual data entry that relies on us getting
a thing called the alien verification number. It is a number
that is very hard to get. We also have to notify the registrant
in question if we are querying the database to search them, but
we have been able to do that.
You see, there are also other databases that we have
requested access to that the department has not made available
to us, at least two other databases that we believe could help
our efforts to identify and remove noncitizens from the voter
rolls. Of course, we should not have this kind of retroactive
look back process that we have right now. Citizenship
verification should happen on the front end, and that is why it
is so crucial that this Chamber finally pass the SAVE Act and
get it over to the Senate and get it to the President's desk so
that we can give Ohioans and Americans the confidence that they
deserve that only the voices of their fellow American citizens
are being heard in our elections and no one else.
Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. LaRose follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK LAROSE
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Secretary LaRose.
Secretary Warner, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. MAC WARNER
Mr. Warner. Today, September 11th is the anniversary of one
of America's worst days.
Chairman Steil. Secretary Warner, your microphone may not
be on. We can hear you, but I know those listening at home
might not.
Mr. Warner. Thank you. Along with many others, I served
this country to protect our Constitution and did so expecting
to fight foreign enemies; 23 years later, none of us expected
to have to protect our own--protect against our own domestic
three-lettered agencies. The worst election interference in
American history was done in 2020 by 51 so-called intelligence
experts who conducted a psychological operation against America
to cause us to believe that the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian
disinformation. It was a lie, and they knew it was a lie.
Former CIA Deputy Director Mike Morell admitted under oath that
he organized the letter to help Biden and to hurt Trump. The
signers wanted to give Biden a talking point, and Biden cited
that letter in his debate with Trump shortly before the 2020
election. Some signers were on CIA payroll as contractors, and
a number used their CIA credentials and signature blocks.
Today's hearing is about restoring election confidence, and
the first step to solving a problem is to admit there is one. A
number of U.S. Government institutions need to publicly admit
the enormity of improperly influencing a Presidential election
before confidence can be restored. Repeatedly I have asked the
FBI, NASS, and CISA officials to publicly acknowledge the
insidious actions, but to date they have refused. The 51 should
apologize for lying, for illegally conducting a PSYOP inside
the United States, and indelibly tarnishing the CIA's
reputation. Their security clearance should be pulled, and they
should never hold a position in Government again.
Then shame on the FBI for not timely exposing the lie and
then telling social media to suppress the story. Mark
Zuckerberg now admits that he should not have listened to the
FBI, but he also interfered with the election by laundering
nearly 400 million Zuck bucks through local entities and using
algorithms that favored one side over the other. Until these
agencies acknowledge culpability, their actions are purposeful
diversions that continue to erode confidence in our elections.
Votes outside the law, that is votes that enter the system
through methods not approved by a State legislature, are what
Americans should be discussing. Examples include ballots that
arrive 3 days after polls close, that arrive via unauthorized
harvesting. They are dumped in unauthorized and unsupervised
drop boxes that are cured without authorization. Absentee
ballots without addresses, dates, or signatures. Election
officials who misuse their authority and allow votes outside
the law should be held accountable and removed from office.
We should develop remedies to votes outside the law. First,
who should be punished? The voter by not counting their vote or
election officials and canvassers who allow and count the
votes? Then, second, what should be the remedy? A civil fine or
a criminal indictment? Rather than tackling these tough issues,
these agencies divert attention by holding worthless briefings,
out-of-date table top exercises, advocating voting by mail,
hyping domestic terrorism, and overplaying threats to election
officials.
National election confidence can be improved by doing what
West Virginia has done. Clean voter registration lists. We
removed 400,000 names and then put on 350,000 live voters.
Implement voter ID. Cross-reference citizenship data with DMV.
Require approved reasons for voting absentee. Look for and
pursue election fraud. West Virginia has pioneered See
Something, Text Something, making every citizen with an iPhone
an extension of our investigation team.
We do not vote by mail. We do not use drop boxes, and we do
not accept votes outside the law, and we do not harvest ballots
illegally. Simply put, we obey election law. When one State
does not obey its own laws, other States should have standing
to bring suit and require only legal ballots by legal voters be
counted. What happens in one State affects all States when
electors are sent to the electoral college.
Meanwhile, West Virginia has called on President Biden to
rescind EO 14019, and I have repeatedly called for repeal of
the MVRA. More common sense. Disallow election-related
ephemeral messaging by social media, and when their algorithms
favor one candidate over another, that should trigger reporting
of a contribution in kind. Do not let consent decrees override
State election law. Require proof of citizenship and pass the
SAVE Act.
Just as we have restored voter confidence in West Virginia,
we can do so nationally by injecting common sense into election
integrity. Thank you for letting me testify on West Virginia
successes. I stand ready for your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Warner follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. MAC WARNER
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you, Secretary Warner.
Secretary Toulouse Oliver, you are now recognized for 5
minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. All right. Can you hear me? Thank you
very much, Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, and Members
of the Committee. Special shout out to our former colleague--
no?
Chairman Steil. Your mic may need to be pulled closer if it
is on.
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. This is what happens when you have a
vertically challenged witness, Mr. Chairman, Special shout out
to Congresswoman Lee, our former colleague.
It is so nice to see you again, Laurel.
Thank you again for having us here today and for organizing
this hearing. My name is Maggie Toulouse Oliver, and I proudly
serve as New Mexico's 26th Secretary of State. I am also proud
to say that the 2024 general election will be my fifth
Presidential election that I have either managed at the county
level or overseen as the Secretary of State.
You know, the alarming decline in public confidence about
the administration and outcomes of elections in our country is
of great concern to me both as an election administrator and as
a citizen of our great Nation. The administration of elections
used to be a relatively quiet affair. We used to say, ``If we
are in the news, we are not doing a good job.'' Now election
administration has a much higher profile among the American
public. More people are now aware of elections and more
awareness can bring more participation, understanding, and
innovation.
However, because of what has now been years of false
election claims and ideological attempts to discredit our
voting systems and processes, much of the heightened awareness
of elections is now colored by conspiracies, misinformation,
and, frankly, outright lies. This false information has led to
increased threats and harassment to election workers. Many of
the people at this table have personally experienced that. You
know, political violence, frivolous and burdensome public
information requests, mounting legal costs, and decreased
overall confidence, this is a vicious cycle that must be
mitigated for the good of our country.
Providing easy access to factual information about voting
and elections is a key strategy we use to increase trust about
elections in my State of New Mexico. When voters are
misinformed about how voting and elections work, they lose
trust in the system itself. Through a multiyear research
partnership with the University of New Mexico that tracks voter
attitudes and knowledge across election cycles, we found there
are knowledge gaps, big surprise, about the fundamental aspects
of the democratic process.
Misinformation about who votes in our elections is another
key factor that diminishes overall voter confidence. The issue
of noncitizen voting is a prominent example of this. Noncitizen
voting does not happen in any systemic way in New Mexico or in
the Nation more broadly. In fact, a Heritage Foundation study,
for instance, reported only 24 instances of noncitizen voting
nationwide over a 24-year period between 2003 and 2023.
However, voters believe noncitizen voting does occur, and
this impacts their overall confidence in elections. This
knowledge gap provides election administrators, such as us here
today, and other leaders an opportunity to better educate
voters about the requirements and procedures for registering
and voting and the legal penalties importantly for violating
the law. We have a zero tolerance policy for any type of
election fraud in my State, and we will pursue it to the
fullest extent of the law.
Connecting the public with their local election
administrators is another strategy to promote trust. Over the
past two election cycles, my office partnered with a coalition
of nonpartisan nonprofit organizations on a statewide media
campaign highlighting the work of county election officials of
both political parties on a statewide media campaign to talk
about the integrity of New Mexico's elections, and we found
that this has been a really great way to connect our local
election officials with folks across the State and put a face
on the people who are running our elections. They are running
on TV, radio, online in English, Spanish and Dine', the Navajo
language. All the videos were recorded to expand the reach of
this effort across New Mexico's diverse communities.
I am proud to say, this year, New Mexico's election
administration was ranked No. 1 in the Nation, and we have the
same exact score as our neighboring State of Michigan by MIT's
prestigious Elections Performance Index. Some of the reason for
our rankings include our transparency, things you have already
heard today. Our transparency around voting and elections, our
wide variety of voter access tools, the extent of the security
measures we have in place to ensure both accuracy and fairness,
post-election audits, air gap tabulators, 100 percent paper
ballots, year-round voter list maintenance, and a variety of
other security measures.
Let me just end by saying, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member,
obviously funding for elections is really important. When we
are combating nation-states, when we are trying to fight the
mis- and disinformation that is coming from other places beyond
the borders of this country, we need that assistance and that
consistent Federal funding. With that, thank you again very
much for giving me this opportunity, and I look forward to
answering any questions.
[The prepared statement of Maggie Toulouse Oliver follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. MAGGIE TOULOUSE OLIVER
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you, Secretary Toulouse Oliver.
Secretary Benson, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. JOCELYN BENSON
Ms. Benson. Thank you, Chairperson Steil, Ranking Member
Morelle, and Members of the Committee. Really grateful for you
all hosting today's meeting and today's hearing. As Michigan's
chief election officer, my responsibility is to ensure our
elections are accessible, safe, secure, and that the results
are accurate. It is not a partisan role, and despite it being
an elected position, it is not a political role. It is a role
that increasingly does force many of us, however, whether we
consider ourselves Republicans, Democrats, or Independents, to
endure threats, harassment, false and malicious attacks on our
character, and integrity.
In today's hearing, you have already heard we are all going
to be talking about the work we do to ensure it is easy to vote
and hard to cheat in our respective States. Indeed, election
security is top of mind for every professional election
administrator in this country. I want to begin my remarks
emphasizing that we cannot have a secure democracy if we do not
protect the security of the people who administer our
elections. Right now we are enduring unrelenting harassment and
threats. People have come to my home. They have threatened me,
my staff, and many of the hundreds of clerks and local election
officials in our State. As a result, we have an omnipresent
feeling of anxiety and hypervigilance that permeates our daily
lives, our staff's lives, and our family's lives.
These threats are a direct result of the spread of false
information about the security and accuracy of our elections. I
need you to be on notice that unsubstantiated allegations and
rhetoric without evidence makes our elections less secure
because they erode the public's confidence in our elections and
harm those charged with protecting our election systems.
The second thing I want to emphasize is that, now more than
ever, the Federal Government's role as a trusted partner in
securing our elections is crucial. Recent years have brought
unprecedented threats to our election system, including some
from highly sophisticated foreign-government-aligned entities.
It is essential that we martial bipartisan support and
cooperative actions in response. Part of that response must be
a commitment to providing a predictable, sustainable, and
reliable stream of funding for our elections. We know what we
must do to ensure our elections are secure in our States but
oftentimes must scrape together funding from multiple sources
to meet our needs. Federal resources are essential for
supporting personnel, purchasing or upgrading voting machines,
or maintaining statewide voter registration databases.
Now I am going to talk about what we are doing in Michigan
to ensure our elections continue to be secure, accessible, and
fair. First, we are working with our clerks to support a secure
and transparent election infrastructure. Other resources like
funding, training, personnel that we provide help us ensure we
can work with local officials to meet the needs of their
communities.
Second, we are building robust partnerships with a broad
and diverse collection and coalition of faith leaders, business
leaders, veterans organizations, colleges and universities,
senior centers, and community leaders in every part of Michigan
to ensure every eligible citizen is able to register and cast a
ballot in every election. I am proud this includes working with
our Detroit Lions and Detroit Pistons as well as NASCAR to meet
people where they are and bring voting opportunities, voter
registration opportunities, and nonpartisan election
information to citizens throughout our State.
Finally, we are taking steps to ensure the accuracy and
security of our voter registration database and provide for the
secure, efficient tabulation of paper ballots and post-election
audits. According to Federal data, Michigan is one of the most
active States in the country for identifying and canceling the
registration of ineligible citizens or voters. In 2020 and in
2022, the Election Assistance Commission reported that
Michigan, the tenth largest State, in the country, ranked fifth
nationwide in removing ineligible voters from our registration
database. As of March, we have canceled more than 800,000 voter
registrations in the last 5 years.
All Michigan voters cast paper ballots, another key element
of election security. Post-election risk-limiting audits also
verify the election results as for accuracy and look across the
entire election. Post-election audits in the 2020 general
election were the most extensive in our State's history. Each
of the 250 local and statewide audits confirmed and reaffirmed
the accuracy and security of that election.
Despite this politically charged environment that we are
in, in Michigan, we are working together to make data-driven
decisions that preserve the integrity of our voting system. I
and my colleagues at the State and local level in our State
will continue to lead on this as the number second ranked in
the country, behind New Mexico, with the same score, and we
hope that you and your colleagues will do the same. Thank you
again for inviting me to testify today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Benson follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. JOCELYN BENSON
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Thank you very much, Secretary Benson.
Secretary Fontes, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF HON. ADRIAN FONTES
Mr. Fontes. Thank you, Mr. Chair, Ranking, and Members of
the Committee.
Ladies and gentlemen, before I begin, I certainly, as an
individual and an American, would, along with all of you I am
sure, reflect today's date, and may we never forget.
My name is Adrian Fontes. The last time I testified before
this Committee I was a candidate for this office. I now come
before you as Arizona's 21st Secretary of State, and it is
indeed an honor to be back.
You will find the details of the achievements and our
preparations in my year-and-a-half-long administration in this
office in my written testimony, but to summarize, let me begin
by discussing the tabletop exercise that we have hosted for
elections officials, law enforcement officials, and Members of
the media, who all play critical roles in preparing for 2024
using and employing generative artificial intelligence deep
fakes and creating the Nation's first AI Advisory Committee
with partners from Open AI, Meta, Microsoft, and other national
and international experts in the field to prepare not just for
2024 but for the future.
We have statewide deployed a ballot tracking system where
Arizona's voters can get automatic notifications of the ballot
of their status from the moment it gets mailed to them to the
moment it returns back to the election department. That sort of
transparency and accountability includes as well a voter
registration notification system where any change in a voter's
registration will be immediately transmitted to them as well.
We have extended information technology services to rural
and Native communities to increase access and to decrease the
sometimes prolific use of provisional balloting in our Native
lands. We have upgraded systems for our uniformed and overseas
citizens so that those serving us in foreign lands who are
eligible citizens can continue to vote in Arizona's elections.
We created a fellowship program to assist our local county
elections officials in their efforts and to train a new
generation of certified election officials across the Grand
Canyon State given the threats and the losses that we have seen
because of those threats. In the profession, we must move
toward a future. We have prepared for and conducted four
statewide elections--four elections in Arizona, including a
Presidential preference election, primary election, and several
jurisdictional elections just in 2024 alone. This is not our
first rodeo even this year. We have significantly improved our
training for new elections officials in Arizona, deploying
innovative assessment and tiger teams of technologists and
resources to shore up operations in every one of our county
levels--county level election administration offices, but none
of this is free, and none of it is cheap.
Our operations administration and security depend on
intermittent, rare, and never enough funding from the Help
America Vote Act grants that we are occasionally given by
Congress. In 2017, elections administration was declared
critical infrastructure by the Department of Homeland Security,
and we still, as Secretary Benson has mentioned, have zero
sustained and dependable Federal funding for this critical
infrastructure. Do the same for highways and dams and
railroads, and see what happens. We implore you, please
consider, if this is such a big deal and if it is so important
that we continue to have free, fair, and secure elections, fund
them.
Now, Arizona is in a unique place. The voters in 2004
passed what is called Proposition 200. While I would challenge
our election systems against any of them in the country to be
the best in the Nation in access to the ballot, I take no pride
in the idea that we have denied eligible citizens the right to
vote in far greater numbers than we would have prevented the
vanishingly rare noncitizen voting that is alleged to be
happening across the United States of America.
When I took the office of county recorder, we found 94,000
rejected voter registration forms, many, many thousands of them
duplicate forms where voters tried and tried and tried again to
register. After thorough research, 47,000 eligible American
citizens were found to have been denied the right to vote
because of that law. One voter was denied 17 different
opportunities to cast a ballot in elections they were eligible
for because of the paranoia around a fake problem.
Voter suppression is unfortunately alive and well. Where
Arizona's voters bear the unusually high and unique burden not
shouldered by any person in this room outside of Arizona's
voters to provide documented proof of citizenship. Most
embarrassingly at this time, right now, 13 to 17 percent of
Arizona's Fed-only voters have ancestry on their Tribal lands
that extends beyond western expansion and before the American
Revolution.
Thank you for the opportunity. I am happy to answer any
other questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fontes follows:]
PREPARED STATEMENT OF HON. ADRIAN FONTES
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Steil. Gentleman yields back. I will begin our
questions today followed by the Ranking Member. We will then
alternate between sides. I recognize myself for 5 minutes for
the purposes of asking questions.
We need to strengthen American's confidence in our
elections. I think there are some real common sense reforms
that can be done to make sure Americans have that confidence in
our elections.
Secretary Toulouse Oliver, you referenced how do we
increase that. Would photo ID increase American's confidence in
their elections? Yes or no?
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Mr. Ranking Member, I do not believe
so.
Chairman Steil. You do not believe that having an
individual show their photo ID saying they are who they say
they are increases confidence in our elections?
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Mr. Ranking--Mr. Chairman, you asked
me a yes-or-no question. I do not think that is a magic bullet.
Chairman Steil. I am not asking if it is magic. I will come
to you, Secretary LaRose. Do you think photo ID increases
American's confidence in our elections?
Mr. LaRose. 100 hundred percent, Mr. Chairman, and it is
vastly popular among both Republicans and Democrats.
Chairman Steil. It makes total sense, right?
Mr. LaRose. 100 percent.
Chairman Steil. That you should go in and show your photo
ID. If you board an airplane, you have got to show your photo
ID. You want to buy a six-pack of beer, you have got to show a
photo ID. If you go in to vote, it makes total sense that you
should have to show your photo ID just to simply say you are
who you say you are, right?
Mr. LaRose. Absolutely.
Chairman Steil. Makes total sense. As we think about other
States, I know New Mexico does not have a photo ID law,
something maybe the State of New Mexico should look at is, per
your comment, we are all working together to increase Americans
confidence in our elections. There are some real common-sense
reforms we would like to see made in States like New Mexico
that does not have a photo ID law.
Mr. LaRose, you removed 500 noncitizens from the voting
rolls. In reading your remarks and in conversations with you,
you went through and took your State motor vehicle database.
You cross-referenced that from the DHS SAVE database and were
able to determine that there were 500 noncitizens on your voter
rolls. Is that accurate?
Mr. LaRose. That is accurate, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Steil. As we look to other States, Mr. Fontes, you
said you removed a number of ineligible voters. Ms. Benson, you
referenced that you removed I think 800,000 ineligible voters
over the course of the past 5 years. Did you do the same work
that Mr. LaRose did where you checked your vehicle database and
cross-referenced the DHS SAVE database? I will start with you,
Secretary Benson.
Ms. Benson. Thank you. We actually do a number of things to
ensure and review the eligibility of our citizens.
Chairman Steil. Do you utilize----
Ms. Benson. We do a number of audits, actually. We use the
SAVE system when people are actually registering and getting
their license, but we cannot use it to actually go back and
look at people who are already registered.
Chairman Steil. Why not?
Ms. Benson. Because the way that the system is set up, but
what we do do----
Chairman Steil. We could.
Ms. Benson. If I could answer.
Chairman Steil. We could. Would you utilize it if we set it
up and----
Ms. Benson. May I respond to the auditing we are already
doing which makes that unnecessary? We actually go back and
every single person----
Chairman Steil. How do you confirm whether or not an
individual is a citizen without doing a back check to the SAVE
database?
Ms. Benson. Everyone who goes into our system when they get
a license or ID has to show some sort of documentation. In that
documentation, their citizenship is essentially verified,
whether it is----
Chairman Steil. It is essentially verified, but why not
check it against the SAVE database?
Ms. Benson. We do at that time.
Chairman Steil. You do not retroactively do it in----
Ms. Benson. We are unable to do it retroactively based on
the database.
Chairman Steil. In my legislation, we actually give States
back the access to be able to utilize that.
Mr. LaRose, you were able to do that. How were you able to
do that?
Mr. LaRose. We were able to do that based on the agreement
that we have reached with DHS to use the SAVE database, but
there is a hole in using motor vehicle data exclusively,
because there are some people that do not get a motor vehicle
operator's license.
Chairman Steil. Without a doubt.
Mr. LaRose. Or do not get a State ID. That is where we are
able to fill that hole by also querying the SAVE database,
which is foolishly--they charge us a dollar something a query
to do that.
Chairman Steil. I will note our legislation and in the SAVE
Act gives States free access to the database, and per Mr.--
Secretary Fontes' comment with funding, what we are working on
is making sure that States have that access unimpeded by cost
and giving States access to the U.S. information as to whether
or not an individual is a citizen. I would encourage all of you
to continue to work with the Federal Government to get access
as Secretary LaRose did, and I would encourage the House and
the Senate to pass and ultimately be signed into law the SAVE
Act, which would give States full access into that database.
I want to shift gears briefly, if I can, to you, Secretary
Benson. President Biden put forward executive order 14019--it
was referenced earlier--directing agencies to create strategic
plans relating to voting. It has been criticized for directing
Federal taxpayer dollars to what many consider partisan Get Out
The Vote efforts. Are you aware that each executive branch
agency, including the Small Business Administration, was
active--was asked to produce a strategic plan under the
executive order?
Ms. Benson. Yes.
Chairman Steil. Are you aware the SBA has been subpoenaed
twice to provide their strategic plan?
Ms. Benson. Yes.
Chairman Steil. Have you seen the Small Business
Administration strategic plan?
Ms. Benson. I have seen the MOU between the SBA and our
office.
Chairman Steil. You and your State conducted an MOU with
the Small Business Administration. Did you see the Small
Business Administration strategic plan?
Ms. Benson. We did one thing.
Chairman Steil. Did you just--did you see the strategic
plan? Have you reviewed it? Have you read it? Did you provide
input into it?
Ms. Benson. We provided, under the boundaries of the MOU, a
URL to the SBA so they could register voters through their
website.
Chairman Steil. Did you provide input into the Small
Business Administration's strategic plan?
Ms. Benson. No.
Chairman Steil. Have you seen the Small Business
Administration's strategic plan?
Ms. Benson. We under the context----
Chairman Steil. Just have you seen the Small Business
Administration's strategic plan?
Ms. Benson. I said no. I have said under the context----
Chairman Steil. You have not seen the strategic plan.
Ms. Benson. I am really not sure why you are barraging me
with these questions. We provided the SBA with a URL----
Chairman Steil. Secretary Benson----
Ms. Benson. That they could register voters through their
website.
Chairman Steil. I am asking specific questions.
Ms. Benson. That is it.
Chairman Steil. Let me give you a background as to why I am
asking you this question. It is actually--it is actually worthy
of it.
Ms. Benson. I just answered your question.
Chairman Steil. That is great. The reason--you asked why I
am asking you, so I am going to answer your question to me. The
reason I am asking you is the Small Business Administration,
under executive order 14019, put forward a strategic plan and
entered into an MOU in a contract with the State of Michigan.
Has any other Secretary of State here entered into a
contract with the Small Business Administration?
Mr. Warner. No.
Mr. LaRose. No.
Chairman Steil. None. The record will reflect only
Michigan. It is quite interesting the Small Business
Administration entered into an MOU with the State of Michigan
and they are doing that under the direction and under the
strategy of a strategic plan. They have put forward a strategic
plan, and all agencies have done this, and we have subpoenaed
to get the strategic plan from every single Federal agency.
These agencies are using our taxpayer dollars to put forward a
partisan Get Out The Vote effort and they will not provide the
strategic plan.
This administration, the Biden administration continues to
hide the strategic plan from every taxpayer in this country,
and I think that does not encourage people to have more
confidence in their elections. This administration should show
the American people what is in the strategic plan they have put
forward. They have uniquely contracted only with the State of
Michigan from the Small Business Administration.
We have seen the Department of Education engage in using
taxpayer dollars for work study. We have seen other Federal
agencies engage in our elections, and what we are asking is to
be able to see this strategic plan as drafted by every Federal
agency. You have not seen it. I have not seen it. I believe the
American people deserve to see the strategic plans as drafted
by this administration as to what they are doing as it relates
to this upcoming election.
Recognizing the time, I will yield back. I will recognize
the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 minutes for the purpose
of asking his questions.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, God forbid
the Government actually help people exercise their rights under
the Constitution to vote, but--excuse me? I have heard a lot of
comments from this side of the aisle today in the mic, and
there has been some comments that I wish people would just be
mindful both of decorum and when you call people liars who are
testifying before Congress. That is a Federal offense. If you
have evidence of it, you ought to bring it. Otherwise, people
ought to be mindful and allow difference of opinion to be
exercised, Mr. Chairman.
I want to--Secretary Benson, since you were asked the
question, you were cutoff both about the audit and any other
comments you want to make about the work you are doing to
register voters. Please use the time to do that.
Ms. Benson. Thank you, Ranking Member. I will never
apologize for doing everything I can to ensure every eligible
citizen is registered to vote. That involves partnerships. It
involves partnerships with the Detroit Pistons. It involves
partnerships with the Detroit Lions, with NASCAR, and yes,
Federal agencies who, if they ask us to provide them a unique
URL so that someone can register to vote through their website
into ours, we will do that, because it is my responsibility and
duty as the chief election officer for the State of Michigan,
and it is one of the reasons we are ranked so high in the
Nation for being one of the best States in the country for
voting.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you for that. I want to come back to
something else that was talked about. Michigan and other
States, California, Arizona, became the target of mis- and
disinformation around ballot counting procedures and how long
it takes to count ballots and certify election results. Explain
to me, if you can, why counting ballots can extend beyond
election night. It seems to mystify people that, if you are
postmarked before the time voting ends that somehow that ballot
should not be counted, but is it false to imply any wrongdoing
simply because results are not final on election night? That
was to Secretary Benson.
Ms. Benson. Oh, sorry. About auditing on election night?
Sorry.
Mr. Morelle. Yes. Just explain why counting ballots
beyond--could extend beyond election night.
Ms. Benson. I am sorry.
Mr. Morelle. Everyone wants results the night of. Are there
legitimate reasons why----
Ms. Benson. Sure. I apologize. I misunderstood. We count
every valid vote in our State and only valid votes. Under our
law, there are three options to vote in our State whether
people vote from home and return their ballots through the
mail, vote early, and vote in person on election day. However
someone chooses to vote, we have a responsibility to count that
vote, and it does take time to do so. We will never sacrifice
accuracy and security in tabulating our votes over efficiency,
although we understand the urgency of the moment and the fact
that the eyes of the Nation will often be on our State to
deliver results, but our priority will always issue ensuring
their accuracy.
I am proud that, even in the 2020 election when some States
did take several days, we had the unofficial results for our
State prepared and public within 24 hours of the polls closing.
Within that time period, we worked transparently to ensure that
people understood we were securely and accurately counting
every vote and trying to do so and working with our clerks to
do so as efficiently as possible.
Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
I want to ask you, Secretary Oliver, last year, you
mentioned, I think, New Mexico enacted the New Mexico Voting
Rights Act, included provision to expand voter access to the
ballot. How were you able to expand rather than restrict voters
access to things like mail-in voting, drop boxes, same-day
voter registration while maintaining security and integrity? I
know you have got about a minute, but if you might just give us
high level.
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Sure, Ranking Member. Thank you. You
know, as has been discussed here today, you know, my colleague
from Ohio said we do not--we can do both at the same time, both
make sure elections are secure and accessible. Importantly, one
of the areas we focused on in New Mexico was access for our
Native voters. With 12 percent Native voting population in our
State, we have the highest Native voting population and it is
very rural, and so not just for our Native voters but for our
rural voters as well, we wanted to make sure that they had
better access to getting a ballot through the mail if that is
how they choose to vote for our Tribal communities. If their
Tribal communities were closed due to a public health emergency
or some other type of emergency that they were not able--not
only able to ensure that folks got ballots, but were able to
return them securely.
Our secure drop containers throughout the State are 24/7
video monitored. They are tamper proof. They need to be checked
regularly by bipartisan staff from the county clerk's office in
that county and transported securely and accounted for with
chain of custody in every case. Those are a few of the
highlights, Mr. Ranking Member.
Mr. Morelle. Very good.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Dr. Murphy is recognized for 5 minutes.
Dr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for
coming today. I have to say I am sorry if people have
threatened individuals. We get threats. Our threats are up 300,
400 percent. It is sadly enough the world we live in, and I
blame social media primarily for it, for all of us, for all of
us.
Ms. Toulouse Oliver, you made a statement that kind of
bothered me a little bit. You said frivolous FOIA requests.
That is the whole purpose of transparent Government. We have
had FOIA requests that go out to the FBI, to some of these
other institutions that never get returned. That is the whole
purpose of transparent Government. I believe this is really the
basis of where the voter angst and anger is coming from,
because we are not seeing transparent Government.
You look at the SBA, and I will ask Ms. Benson really at
this point in time, you know, you want every eligible voter to
do something. You are aware that the VA by executive order is
enrolling people, correct? In your State?
Ms. Benson. We meet people where they are, and if they are
veterans or servicemembers, I welcome every opportunity.
Dr. Murphy. Are you aware that the two places in the VA in
the State of Michigan are both in Democratic districts? No
Republican districts.
Ms. Benson. No, it is actually--that is not accurate.
Dr. Murphy. Well, that was accurate yesterday in our VA
meeting.
Ms. Benson. No.
Dr. Murphy. This is where we----
Ms. Benson. It is a website. It is available to everybody.
Dr. Murphy. This is where the angst comes from, because it
is do for thee as we tell you to do, and this is where the--you
know, the Chairman was talking about yes, we are doing voter
registration, but it is only for Democrats. It is not across
the board. This is where the angst and the anger comes from,
because this administration has said, ``Oh, yes, we are doing
transparent things,'' but we are not doing transparent things.
It is absolutely for Democrats. It is absolutely to try to
change elections.
You know, when I got through 2020, I am a surgeon. I am
very objective. I--cancer does not know Republican or Democrat.
I look at things absolutely objective. Why the hell are
deceased people still on your voter rolls and why does it take
a lawsuit by the Public Interest Legal Foundation to sue you to
get those people off the voter rolls? Tell me.
Ms. Benson. Which one of those three questions did you want
me to answer first?
Dr. Murphy. Please, endure me.
Ms. Benson. OK. I will take the last first. That lawsuit
was dismissed because we actually are ranked fourth in the
country, as the Federal judge noticed----
Dr. Murphy. Do you have deceased people on your voter
rolls, yes or no?
Ms. Benson. We vigorously----
Dr. Murphy. Yes or no?
Ms. Benson. We do everything we can, and just like every
other State, to remove it. We actually----
Dr. Murphy. Should a deceased person be on your voter roll?
Ms. Benson. No, and that is why we remove them once we
receive information----
Dr. Murphy. Great. Should an illegal person, who is in this
country illegally, vote in any election?
Ms. Benson. No.
Dr. Murphy. OK. What if somebody is unknowingly registered
to vote in an election, they are illegal in this country,
should their vote be counted?
Ms. Benson. No.
Dr. Murphy. OK. Great. I would love to hear that and love
everybody to embrace that.
Ms. Benson. We do.
Dr. Murphy. That is great.
You know, guys, this is--why would you not--Ms. Toulouse
Oliver, why would you not embrace voter ID?
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. We do have voter ID in New Mexico. We
just have a variety of different ways that voters can confirm
their identity.
Dr. Murphy. Yes. This is where the folks in Georgia
screamed about voter ID, voter ID is going to suppress the
vote, when they had the greatest turnout in history.
If you do not want voter ID, why would the reason for not?
It is BS to think it is suppressing the vote, BS, BS. The only
other reason that people would want that is so that people
could vote who are not eligible to vote.
This is where the angst comes from. It comes from lack of
transparency; it comes from smugness; it comes from the fact
this administration is doing everything it can to push one
particular narrative into a one-party State.
I say that objectively, after looking at things objectively
and trying to scrub the data, scrub what is going on. It is
absolutely horrible that we are doing this here in the United
States.
We did not find out about it years ago because it was not
being done. Whoever has been running the White House for the
last 3-and-a-half years has been pushing a narrative to try to
get one-party rule. Period.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Congressman Kilmer is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Kilmer. Thank you, Chairman.
Now for something completely different.
First, I just want to thank you all for what you do. I
think it really matters. I think the Federal Government should
be ensuring that you have predictable funding and the resources
you need to make sure that people can vote. Thank you.
I want to touch on a topic that has not come up yet today,
and that is our preparedness to ensure the continuity of this
institution in the face of the unthinkable happening, if there
is a mass casualty event, and the role that you all play in
that.
We have, sadly, seen a dramatic increase in the amount of
threats against Members of Congress. This Committee is looking
into whether States are appropriately positioned to act and to
ensure the continuity of Government and operations in the event
of something horrific happening.
I know you all have enough to worry about, but this is a
topic that the Select Committee on the Modernization of
Congress looked at, and I think it is one that demands more
attention.
Thankfully--and I thank the chair for this and Chairwoman
Bice--a bipartisan group of us sent a letter to the Government
Accountability Office and to all of you and to your fellow
Secretaries of State asking you to participate in a report that
the Government Accountability Office is doing just to see
whether we are prepared.
It is designed to inform Congress about your ability to
comply with existing Federal requirements for filling mass
vacancies in States' representation following a mass casualty
event.
Current law is that a special election needs to be held
within 49 days in the event of a mass casualty if there are
more than a hundred vacancies in the House.
We sent you a letter just asking you to work with the
Government Accountability Office and answer their questions.
Can I just ask quickly, yes or no, will you all work with
the GAO and just respond to their questions? Can I just have an
affirmative ``yes'' from everybody?
[All witnesses responded affirmatively.]
Mr. Kilmer. Yes? OK. Thank you for that. We will only be
able to solve problems insofar as we understand the problems.
For you, Secretary Toulouse Oliver, given your State's
leadership of the National Association of State Election
Directors and the National Association of Secretaries of State,
both of whom we have spoken to about this before, could you
just speak about the time and resources needed to effectively
hold a special election from your perspective? Do you think the
current law of 49 days is doable?
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Thank you very much, Representative,
for asking that question.
We actually recently modified our special election law in
New Mexico. We have a hundred-day timeframe that is codified
between when the vacancy occurs and when the election has to
happen, and that was really compacting the timeframe we felt as
short as we could possibly do it, with also having a well-
prepared, accurate election that the voters were ready for as
well as election administrators.
Forty-nine days would be really pushing it, I mean. By
Federal law we have to mail out ballots 45 days before an
election. That gives you 4 days between a vacancy being
created, candidacies being nominated and declared. I mean, I
just do not think that is realistic.
I obviously understand the urgency of filling those seats,
obviously, but it would be a huge challenge.
Mr. Kilmer. The steps in the process, I mean, military
voters, all of those sorts of things need to be accounted for
as well, right?
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Absolutely. Again, 49 days, OK, and
then on day 4 of that period you are already mailing out
ballots to your uniformed military voters and overseas voters.
I think that is just incredibly unrealistic.
Mr. Kilmer. One of the things we are trying to figure out
is, I mean, I hear 49 days and I think, man, that is a long
time for Congress to be missing a hundred Members----
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. I know.
Mr. Kilmer [continuing]. or more, right? Or in a mass
casualty event, I mean, every time I go to the State of the
Union I think like, but for the grace of God, go we.
49 days is a long time, and what I hear you saying is like
that would be really hard to achieve.
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Again, I think, as election
administrators, I think we can all say we are very used to
making things work. We will make things work, whatever we have
to do.
You are not going to have as accurate an election, and it
is going to be really hard for those election administrators to
make that kind of timeframe work in a way that ensures that
those overseas voters are getting their ballots, not to mention
being ready for things like early voting and absentee voting in
all the States.
Very challenging timeframe, Representative.
Mr. Kilmer. I thank you for your response. Thank you for--
each of you--for being willing to work with the GAO. We are
trying to figure out whether there is a better way to do this.
Thank you.
I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Congressman Loudermilk is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank all of you for being here. I appreciate the work that
you guys do.
Look, whether we like it or not, election integrity is a
huge issue, bipartisan issue, in this country. Whether it is
perception or reality, people have to have confidence in their
elections.
The questioning of elections is on both sides of the aisle.
It is not just one side of the aisle. In 2018, Georgia's
gubernatorial election, Stacey Abrams refused to acknowledge
her defeat by Brian Kemp, citing integrity of the Georgia
election.
We see it on both sides. This is an issue that has to be
addressed. At least in Georgia the largest concern is over
mail-in ballots. Through studies over years and years, when
there is fraud--and there is fraud in every election. I mean,
we have to acknowledge that. It is an issue that is in our
country. It is in every State.
It is minimizing that fraud as best as we can to make sure
that it does not affect the outcome of the election. Then we
have to do it in such a way that it gives the populace
confidence that we are at least trying our best to have an
election that is full of integrity.
With that, Secretary Fontes, just to simplify things, I
will just address questions to you.
In Arizona, like Arizona, many voters choose to vote by
mail. Can you tell the Committee what protections Arizona has
in place to ensure mail-in ballots are actually going to voters
at their correct mailing address and that the signatures on the
ballots match the signature Arizona has on file for each voter?
Mr. Fontes. Mr. Chair, Mr. Loudermilk, first and foremost,
I have to take umbrage with the notion that--the conclusory
statement that you made, there is fraud in every election. That
is just not true. It has never been proven. I will start there.
Mr. Loudermilk. Now, you can--so let me just--let me ask
you this. You can verify----
Mr. Fontes. As for the address verification----
Mr. Loudermilk. It is my time. You can verify to this
Committee that there is no fraud in any Arizona election, a
hundred percent?
Mr. Fontes. It is an entirely different question than
stating that there is fraud in every election. It is a very
different----
Mr. Loudermilk. I do not--OK.
Mr. Fontes. That is exactly what you said, sir.
Mr. Loudermilk. Oh, I did say that.
Mr. Fontes. To answer your question--but to answer your
question----
Mr. Loudermilk. I just do not see the differences if I
say----
Mr. Fontes. If you'd like me to answer your question.
Mr. Loudermilk. Sir, the time belongs to me.
Mr. Fontes. Yes, sir.
Mr. Loudermilk. We can have an interaction, but you have to
allow me to continue on with something you brought up.
I do not see how there is a difference by saying that there
is fraud in every election, and then you cannot guarantee that
you have never had an election without fraud.
This is--I think we have to be intellectually honest going
forward. We deal with a constituency, one where not everyone
abides by a common moral code that we respect the rights of
each other and we follow the rule of law. There are cheaters
out there in every State. We cannot fix a problem unless we are
intellectually honest.
With that, if you could please now address the issue of how
do you ensure mail-in ballots are actually going to voters at
their correct mailing address, and how do you ensure that the
signatures match those that you have on file?
Mr. Fontes. Mr. Chair, Mr. Loudermilk, as to the address
verification system that we employ in Arizona, which has been
in place for a very, very long time, continuously updated, we
use the National Change of Address database by the United
States Postal Service. We use a first and second notice system
to our county registrars, which will send a second piece of
mail if we have returned election mail, and that second piece
of mail is a second notice to the registrar. That back-and-
forth communication via election mail, which is a little
different than first class mail, it cannot be forwarded, by the
way.
Those are some of the techniques that we use, among others.
I would like to touch on the signature verification system
that, again, we have been using for a very long time in
Arizona, a couple of decades as a matter of fact, that uses
three layers of human eyeballs on these signatures.
These folks, by the way, I would argue, are better than the
signature checking folks in some law enforcement agencies,
because they do not just do ballots on election day.
As I indicated in my opening, we have already had four
elections in Arizona. Guess what? Over 80 percent of our
ballots on average now are by mail, and that means every single
one of those ballots has to be signature verified. These are
the same people trained by the trainers who train the FBI in
their signature verification process.
Mr. Loudermilk. Let me follow up on that.
Are the signatures verified against the signature on the
application or on the registration?
Mr. Fontes. They are--well, that is essentially one and the
same. We keep a lot of those signatures in place to have a
total voter record. We will hopefully be able to, although
there has been efforts against this, utilize the entire record
of a voter's signature, because it changes. It adjusts over
time. We get a little older. Sometimes you have something like
Parkinson's or a physical injury that gets in the way.
Because that does happen, if we have a mismatched
signature, we make every effort to contact those voters either
by phone or email or even employ some of the political parties
to go chase down ballots where there are mismatches before the
end of the cure period.
Mr. Loudermilk. All right. Thank you.
I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
Representative Torres is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Torres. Thank you, Chairman.
Once again, I also want to thank each and every one of you
for being here today and for your bravery that you exercise
every day. I hope you are doing everything that you can to take
care of the people that are employed under you, that you
manage, because, truly, it is a scary time for all of you.
Here we are 55 days before election and just days away from
ballots--mail ballots going out across the U.S. and across the
world to Americans abroad and military personnel. Election day
is pretty much on top of us.
Unfortunately, election officials and workers have seen a
rise, again, in dangerous threats, harassment, and
unprecedented attacks across the country.
In fact, several witnesses here, if not all, have been
direct victims of intimidation, violence, at the hands of MAGA
extremists who have been inspired by big lie conspiracies about
election security.
Let us be clear about where the responsibility lies here.
The former President Trump, and now their Republican nominee
for President, took to social media just this past weekend
threatening to jail election officials and casting doubt once
again about the integrity of the 2024 elections in the event
that he loses, because the loser cannot lose.
Let us also be clear, it is not just elected officials who
face threats and intimidation. Last year, a jury ordered Rudy
Giuliani, former President Trump's lawyer, to pay $148 million
for defaming Georgia election workers who were forced to go
into hiding because of the violent threats against them.
In July, a man was sentenced to 14 months in prison for
sending a death threat to a Michigan election worker after the
November 2020 election.
In Florida, the Governor's election police are going down
door to door harassing petition signers.
Secretary Benson, in your testimony you mentioned that you,
yourself, have been threatened, as has your staff and election
officials across Michigan.
How has this constant mis- and disinformation impacted your
office and election workers that you employ?
Ms. Benson. Thank you, Congresswoman, for that question.
Thank you all for your questions today.
I really want to emphasize the power of evidence, first and
foremost, when it comes to election administration or any
alleged irregularities. That is really what I think has to be
at the heart of any type of concerns that are expressed,
evidence of wrongdoing, evidence of irregularities.
When it comes to evidence in these most recent years, there
has been none, despite multiple investigations and audits by
committees in our State and in many others.
In the absence of that evidence, that is why--although I
understand, and people do and should have rightly placed faith
in our elections, and I understand the concerns that people
have as a result of allegations that are thrown around, quite
flippantly, I think, by a lot of leaders today.
The results of meritless requests and meritless accusations
and false rhetoric is that people show up on my doorstep, when
I am inside trying to hang Christmas decorations with my 4-
year-old son, screaming into a megaphone, ``You are a
murderer,'' and. ``You should be arrested and tried for
treason.''
That is the reality of all this. That is actually who it
impacts, those of us who are just trying to do our jobs with
integrity, because we love our jobs.
Every single one of us is professionals who signed up for
this work because we believe in making sure every voice is
heard, not just one party's voice, every voice, every vote
being counted that is valid.
The fact that now all of us, including election workers,
who also sign up to do this work with pride for very little
pay, are now, as the result of lies and misinformation on the
other side, of threats and rhetoric that make us afraid to go
to work, afraid to go grocery shopping, afraid to take our kid
to school, afraid to go into our backyard because we do not
know what might be lurking in the bushes, and that is real.
That is what we are experiencing, not just this last week
but these last 4 years. I hope that that story or those stories
can be in the minds of everyone as you go into this election
season.
Mrs. Torres. Thank you for your testimony.
I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
Congresswoman Bice is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Ranking
Member, for bringing us together today.
Ms. Benson, I want to start out by saying, I need you to be
on notice that 10 million noncitizens have entered this country
illegally, and municipalities across the country are allowing
them to vote in local elections. If States cannot keep one
voter roll registration clean, imagine keeping two separated.
Let me start by addressing Secretary Byrd, LaRose, and
Warner. Clearly, the Democrat Secretaries here have engaged in
``get out the vote'' efforts that the Biden administration is
spearheading. Certainly, I do not know if you have been
contacted and asked to participate in any of these programs,
but in my opinion, voter registration is incredibly important.
However, I think the SBA should be focused on their sole
mission, which is helping small businesses across this country
be successful. I think the Department of Education should be
focused on fixing their failed FAFSA rollout and not focused on
registering voters. It is absurd that the administration has
defied two subpoenas regarding that ``get out the vote''
effort.
Have either of you, Mr. Byrd, Mr. LaRose, or Mr. Warner,
been contacted about these ``get out the vote'' efforts?
Mr. Byrd. We have not, and we have not had any evidence or
reports of Federal agencies in Florida doing that, and if they
were to request, we would not allow them.
We have gone even further in our State of public assistance
agencies that serve as VRAs under the NVRA. We have now
instructed them that they are not--if someone reports as being
a noncitizen that they will report that to us so we can compare
it against the voter rolls, and we specifically prohibit them
from offering them voter registration forms if they report as a
noncitizen.
Mrs. Bice. Quickly, Mr. LaRose and Mr. Warner.
Mr. LaRose. I helped lead an effort to sue the Biden
administration to stop this foolish executive order, so I think
they know better than to ask me.
Mrs. Bice. Mr. Warner?
Mr. Warner. We have specifically written the White House to
ask them to rescind that order because it is unconstitutional,
that executive order.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you.
I want to start with you, Secretary Fontes.
Following the Supreme Court's infamous 2013 decision in the
Arizona v. Tribal, Arizona had to move to a system where it
requires proof of citizenship for those registering to vote in
State elections but no proof for those using the Federal form
to register to vote in a Federal election.
Can you tell the Committee how the Federal-only voter--how
many, I am sorry, how many Federal-only voters there are in
Arizona?
Mr. Fontes. Mr. Chair, Congresswoman, as we have heard,
those rolls change every day. We are at approximately 44,000 at
this time. Two-thirds of them are under 24 years of age. As I
indicated earlier, 13 to 17 percent of them are members of
Native American Tribes or have addresses on Tribal lands.
Mrs. Bice. How many voters are there that can vote in all
elections?
Mr. Fontes. We are over 4 million.
Mrs. Bice. What is the effect on Arizona's elections
following the Supreme Court late August order of the Republican
National Committee v. Mi Familia Vota?
Are you providing individuals who are denied registration
for failing to provide documentary proof of citizenship with
the State voter registration form with the Federal form to
encourage individuals to circumvent the DPOC requirement that
was just upheld by the Supreme Court?
Mr. Fontes. We have issued guidance under--we have issued
guidance to all of our voter registrars across the State with
legal counsel at our side from the Attorney General's Office to
comply with the U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
I think it is very important for folks to understand that
the information gathered on each of those forms is exactly the
same.
While we will follow the law as indicated by the U.S.
Supreme Court, again, these efforts will result in the
reduction of the capacity of some U.S. citizens from being able
to vote.
Mrs. Bice. My time is limited.
I would like to request unanimous consent to submit a
letter from Kevin Cline (ph) and Gina Swoboda to Secretary
Fontes for the record.
Chairman Steil. Without objection.
[The Cline and Swoboda letter referred to follows:]
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Mrs. Bice. It is the case that a voter that registers in
Arizona, on the Arizona form, their application will not be
processed unless they provide proof of citizenship. Is that
correct?
Mr. Fontes. It is the State of the law, and that is what we
have advised our voter registrars, that is correct.
Mrs. Bice. Voters can still register with the Federal form
to vote in a Federal election, provide no proof of citizenship,
and be allowed to vote in November?
Mr. Fontes. That is exactly how you vote in your district,
ma'am.
Mrs. Bice. Actually, I have voter authorization and voter
ID in my State.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the time, and I yield
back.
Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
Representative Carey from the State of Ohio is recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Carey. I want to thank the Chairman.
I also want to thank the witnesses for being here today,
two of whom I have known for many years. It is good to see you
both. I really appreciate you all traveling this way.
Obviously, having Ohio's own Secretary of State here is quite
an honor.
As my colleagues have already mentioned today, this
presents us a critical opportunity to ensure the safeguarding--
I think all of you have said this--of America's elections.
In fact, earlier this week, my dear friend Mr. Morelle,
from across the aisle, we did a bill together, the COCOA Act,
or the Confirmation of Congressional Observers Act. Bipartisan
bill.
This bill was another example of just the common-sense
bipartisan legislation that we do on this Committee that
ensures confidence with Americans.
I am going to turn a little bit to Secretary LaRose, if you
do not mind.
If you recall, I believe it was in June of this year, our
Governor, Mike DeWine, signed into law a new campaign finance
provision to prevent foreign nationals from engaging in Ohio's
elections.
Now, for those of you who you do not know, we have an Issue
1 ballot that is actually going to be up in November. If my--
the numbers that I am seeing are correct, over $26 million has
been spent on the ``yes'' vote, of which a large portion of
that came from foreign entities, and only about $200,000--
$200,000--from $26 million--think about this--$26 million
raised, only $200,000 actually came from the State of Ohio. A
lot of people outside of Ohio had a lot of interest in what
Ohio was doing in its election.
Can you talk about why this change was needed? I kind of
pretty much laid it out there for you, Mr. Secretary, but if
you would, please.
Mr. LaRose. Yes. Well, thank you, Congressman.
Unfortunately, it is needed because there are foreigners
who think that they have a role in Ohio's elections, including,
by the way, a Swiss billionaire who, the day the Governor
called the special session to pass the bill barring foreign
people from contributing, made a contribution, because he was
trying to get in under the wire. $6 million Hansjorg Wyss gave
to an issue in Ohio.
Mr. Carey. What was his name again? I just want to make
sure we are clear on that.
Mr. LaRose. Hansjorg Wyss, the same guy that funds a fake
news operation in Ohio, that, of course, supports the issue
that he is funding as well.
Mr. Carey. He is from Switzerland, just so we are clear.
Mr. LaRose. The country of Switzerland. Fondue. Swiss
cheese. All of that, yes.
Mr. Carey. Yes. OK. All right.
How does the law that the Governor signed prevent foreign
nationals from engaging? I know that he kind of tried to
circumvent the system given the timeframe. How has it changed
than now?
Mr. LaRose. Well, unfortunately, it is currently not in
effect because of a ruling by a Federal judge. We are appealing
that because, again, Ohioans want us to keep foreign actors out
of our elections. Unfortunately, that law is on hold right now.
Mr. Carey. It is something that Ohioans wanted, but we have
a judge that is trying to say that--can you give me a little
more details about the court case?
Mr. LaRose. Yes. It was based on the inclusion of permanent
legal residents in the legislation. We kind of warned the
legislature they may not want to include permanent legal
residents, and that is the part that has caused this to be held
up by the Federal court.
Mr. Carey. Can you give me the number that our friend from
Switzerland, again, donated to this cause?
Mr. LaRose. $6 million, the day the Governor called the
special election to outlaw foreign donations.
Mr. Carey. Unbelievable.
Look, I do not have much time left, but quickly, in Ohio,
like Florida, many voters choose to vote by mail. Can you tell
the Committee what protections Ohio has in place to prevent
mail-in ballot fraud?
Mr. LaRose. Yes. It starts with maintaining accurate voter
rolls. We remove deceased voters on a monthly basis.
Of course, we check the identification of someone when they
request an absentee ballot. We do not mail out unsolicited
absentee ballots, which would be a foolish idea, in my opinion.
We also allow people to track their ballots. You go to our
website, you can track your ballot and make sure that it is
received.
These are just a few of the safeguards that we have in
place.
Mr. Carey. Again, I want to thank all the witnesses for
being here, and appreciate your time. Unfortunately, we do have
two Committees that are running simultaneously. I would like to
hear the rest of the questions, but I am going to have to go.
It is good to see you both, my friends, and look forward to
seeing you again.
With that, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
We now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mr.
D'Esposito, for 5 minutes for the purpose of asking his
questions.
Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you all for being here this morning, this afternoon.
Obviously, the most important--one of the most important
things we face is to make sure that our elections are fair and
that our elections are secure, and I think it is one of the
biggest concerns of the American people.
I want to thank our Chairman for his leadership over the
118th Congress in really focusing and honing in on how to make
these elections more secure, to make sure that they are fair,
to make sure that American citizens are the ones voting in the
American process.
I have heard, not only today but throughout conversations,
that people are saying, well, the amount of noncitizens voting
is not really significant.
I have to--really, this is a question for everybody,
because it is one that really should keep people up at night.
What is the red line? Democrats say that there is not a
significant number of noncitizens registered to vote, but yet
there is still evidence of noncitizens on voter rolls. We are
being told by Democrats that it is not a significant number,
but yet they are still on the voter rolls.
I am going to start, I guess, from right to left, left to
right, and just, I guess, tell us, what is the red line? What
is the number that we think makes it significant? What is the
number that would require the Federal Government to implement
policies to prevent noncitizens from voting in our elections,
one of our most sacred rights?
Mr. Byrd. Congressman, it should be a zero-tolerance
policy. In Florida, in 2000, 537 votes separated President Bush
from Senator Gore. Small numbers matter in elections. Our
current Speaker of the House lost his first race by two votes.
If there were three illegal votes, that is overwhelming to his
race. There should be a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to
noncitizens.
Mr. LaRose. Agree, zero tolerance. Every year, dozens of
elections in Ohio come down to a single vote. Those are usually
local elections, but those matter. We say every vote matters,
we mean that, and we should not allow any noncitizens to be on
our voter rolls.
Mr. Warner. I agree a hundred percent with the previous two
comments, zero tolerance.
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Agreed, and it is already illegal for
noncitizens to register and vote. I completely agree with that.
Ms. Benson. I agree, as well. We are doing everything we
can to ensure that noncitizens are not able to vote and that
only U.S. citizens vote in our elections.
It is working. There is no evidence that noncitizens are
voting. If they were, it would be easy to prove since voting
records are public. Despite numerous organizations spending a
lot of money to try to convince people that noncitizens are
voting, none of these groups have actually been able to provide
any evidence of it.
Mr. Fontes. I will save you time and just say I agree, sir.
Mr. D'Esposito. OK.
Well, Mr. LaRose, I am going to let you follow up on the
statement from Ms. Benson.
Mr. LaRose. We found 135 this year that had voted. We found
another 400 that were registered but hadn't yet voted. This
idea that it is already illegal, it is illegal to hijack
airplanes, but we do not get rid of the TSA.
Mr. D'Esposito. It is also illegal to use fentanyl and
smuggle fentanyl into the country. It is also illegal to come
across our southern border and not face asylum. It is also
illegal for many things. It is illegal to carry guns in some of
our bluest cities and States, but yet every day there is more
and more gun violence.
I think what we are seeing here is that perhaps we need a
better definition of the term ``significant,'' because I think
if one person that is not an American citizen has the ability
to vote in our election there is a serious problem.
As was mentioned by many of our witnesses, our elections
are coming down to just dozens or hundreds of votes. We had a
State assembly race in my congressional district just 2 years
ago where it came down to 138 votes.
Yes, every vote does count. As we continue to sit here and
try to deny the fact that there are noncitizens not only
registering but actually voting in our elections, it is clear
that that is not a fact, because there are people casting
ballots throughout this country that are noncitizens.
I believe, after the last 3-and-a-half years where we saw
3-and-a-half--or I should say, close to 15 million people come
across our southern border, we would be lying to ourselves to
think that some of them are not going to take the opportunity
to vote.
With that, I think that this Committee continues to do the
work that we do to secure our elections. I want to thank you
all for your work.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentleman yields back.
We now recognize Ms. Lee, the former Secretary of State of
the State of Florida, for 5 minutes for asking her questions.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for convening this
important hearing.
To all of our witnesses who are here today, it is indeed a
pleasure to see you. As Florida's former Secretary of State, I
appreciate how important your jobs are and how critical your
jobs are to American confidence in elections and ensuring that
we have free and fair elections in the United States. Thank you
to all of you for being here today.
Secretary Byrd, I would like to go back to you. You
mentioned in your opening a couple of concepts that I think are
very important as it relates to public confidence and really an
example of some of the best practices that we could see in
elections in our country.
I would like to start with voting systems and transparency.
Is it correct, Secretary Byrd, that the Florida Department of
State tests and certifies every voting system before it is used
in an election?
Mr. Byrd. That is correct.
Ms. Lee. Is it also true, Secretary Byrd, that before an
election local election officials perform testing and auditing
of those systems again before they are used?
Mr. Byrd. Yes.
Ms. Lee. That testing and auditing of the election systems
prior to every election is open to the public, is it not?
Mr. Byrd. Absolutely open to the public.
Ms. Lee. Would you tell us this? While voting is going on
during elections, are those voting systems ever connected to
the internet?
Mr. Byrd. They are not connected to the internet.
Ms. Lee. In other words, Secretary Byrd, is it possible to
hack a voting system during an election?
Mr. Byrd. It is not.
Ms. Lee. Would you tell us, Secretary, why it is you think
that these measures you have just described are important and
how they relate to public confidence in elections?
Mr. Byrd. Well, everything we do in Florida is to build
voter confidence. While we have 67 counties and 67 supervisors
of elections who are independently elected constitutional
officers, we have a uniform election code.
It is my job and your former job as the chief elections
officer of the State to make sure that we accommodate the needs
of our largest county in Miami-Dade and our smallest county in
Liberty County, that they can all operate with different
resources and funding at the county level but they also follow
the State law.
Ms. Lee. I would like to go back to something else that was
mentioned earlier in this hearing. There was reference made to
what was described as Governor DeSantis' election police.
In fact, Secretary Byrd, is that not the Florida Department
of State's Office of Election Crimes and Security?
Mr. Byrd. It is. It was one of the Governor's top election
integrity priorities, to create the Office of Election Crimes
and Security.
That office, which is housed in the Department of State, we
investigate allegations of election fraud and crimes.
I think it is really important to note that people think--
when they think election fraud they think of the Presidential
race. Election fraud includes campaign finance violations,
voter registration fraud, initiative petition fraud, candidate
qualifying fraud. We investigate all of those.
For all of the people who say there is no evidence of
noncitizens voting in all of these, come to Florida. We have
the evidence, because I am required, my office is required to
report it to the Governor and the legislature every year.
Ms. Lee. If you would, touch on the petition gatherers,
what that is, and explain for us why that is harmful to both
the public and the elections process if there is fraud
occurring during the petition gathering process.
Mr. Byrd. Those initiative petitions change or have the
potential to change our State constitution. They enshrine--if
they pass, they enshrine it in State law.
There are organizations and businesses that send people
from out of State into the States, pay them to gather
signatures. We have victims of felony identity theft. They have
come and reported that to us, that their signature has been
put--that their identity has been stolen, their signature has
been placed on a signature petition. We have a duty and
obligation to investigate and provide relief to those victims.
Also, most of the reports of election fraud in Florida are
reported by the county elections officials. It is happening,
and it is our duty under the law to investigate.
Ms. Lee. Then one of the things--this question I will
direct to all of our Secretaries who are here with us today--
one of the things that we have heard discussed during this
hearing is the Election Observer Program, which Congress
administers across the country, and this Committee runs that
program, and we deploy trained congressional staff and send
them around as those observers in elections offices around
America.
I would like to hear from each of you on, really just a yes
or no, if your office is prepared and ready to welcome these
election observers during this election cycle.
We will start with you, Secretary Byrd.
Mr. Byrd. Yes, we welcome them.
Mr. LaRose. Proudly.
Mr. Warner. Yes.
Ms. Toulouse Oliver. Of course.
Ms. Benson. Yes.
Mr. Fontes. Happy to have them.
Ms. Lee. All right. Thank you all.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman Steil. The gentlewoman yields back.
I would like to thank all of our witnesses for appearing
before us. It has been helpful. Members of the Committee may
have some additional questions for you, and we ask that you
please respond to these questions in writing.
Without objection, each Member will have 5 legislative days
to insert additional materials into the record or to revise and
extend their remarks.
I will note for our Members, we will be moving into a
markup about 2 minutes after. We will allow the witnesses to
depart, and we will move into a markup.
If there is no further business, I thank the Members for
their participation.
Without objection, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:13 a.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
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