[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]




               THE CURSE OF SOCIALISM IN CENTRAL AMERICA 
                           AND THE CARIBBEAN

=======================================================================




                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                             June 27, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-123

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
      
        
      
        
               [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
               
        


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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

56-703 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2026
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                   MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     GREGORY MEEKS, New York, Ranking 
JOE WILSON, South Carolina               Member
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania            BRAD SHERMAN, California
DARRELL ISSA, California             GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
ANN WAGNER, Missouri                 WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
BRIAN MAST, Florida                  AMI BERA, California
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee              JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MARK E. GREEN, Tennessee             DINA TITUS, Nevada
ANDY BARR, Kentucky                  TED LIEU, California
RONNY JACKSON, Texas                 SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
YOUNG KIM, California                DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida        COLIN ALLRED, Texas
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan              ANDY KIM, New Jersey
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       SARA JACOBS, California
    American Samoa                   KATHY MANNING, North Carolina
FRENCH HILL, Arkansas                SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, 
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                    Florida
JIM BAIRD, Indiana                   GREG STANTON, Arizona
MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida               MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
THOMAS KEAN, JR., New Jersey         JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York             JONATHAN JACKSON, Illinois
CORY MILLS, Florida                  SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia              JIM COSTA, California
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               JASON CROW, Colorado
JOHN JAMES, Michigan                 GABRIEL AMO, Rhode Island
KEITH SELF, Texas                    KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
RYAN K. ZINKE, Montana               BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
JAMES C. MOYLAN, Guam

                Brendan Shields, Majority Staff Director

                Sophia Lafargue, Minority Staff Director
                
                                 ------                                

                 SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE

                   MARIA SALAZAR, Florida, Chairwoman
MARK GREEN, Tennessee                JOAQUIN CASTRO, Ranking Member
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan              GREG STANTON, Arizona
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio                JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
KEITH SELF, Texas                    SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
JOHN JAMES, Michigan








                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                            REPRESENTATIVES

                                                                   Page
Opening Statement of Subcommittee Chairwoman Maria Salazar.......     1
Opening Statement of Subcommittee Ranking Member Joaquin Castro..     1

                               WITNESSES

Statement of Eric Jacobstein, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau 
  of Western Hemisphere Affairs, U.S. Department of State........     3
  Prepared Statement.............................................     6
Statement of Greg Howell, Senior Deputy Assistant Administrator, 
  Bureau For Latin America and the Caribbean, U.S. Agency for 
  International Development......................................     9
  Prepared Statement.............................................    11

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    30
Hearing Minutes..................................................    31
Hearing Attendance...............................................    32








 
      THE CURSE OF SOCIALISM IN CENTRAL AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN

                              ----------                              


                        Thursday, June 27, 2024

                  House of Representatives,
            Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
                              Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:13 p.m., in 
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Maria Elvira 
Salazar (chair of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Ms. Salazar. So the Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere 
will come to order.
    The purpose of this hearing is to analyze the impact of 
socialist policies in Central America and the Caribbean and how 
they undermine American interests in our hemisphere.
    Now I am going to recognize myself for an opening 
statement. It's just going to be few comments.

         OPENING STATEMENT OF CHAIRWOMAN MARIA SALAZAR

    Thank you very much to Mr. Jacobstein for being here once 
again and enduring our questioning. I mean, it speaks so 
highly--I always say it speaks so highly of the American 
democracy of having people of your stature just like Mr. 
Howell, and thank you for both being here.
    I mean, do you foresee something like this in Venezuela or 
in Cuba or Nicaragua where the government officials have to 
come and answer questions to Congress?
    So I know--I understand that this is fatiguing and I am 
sure that you--that you don't necessarily like coming here but 
I thank you very much and you are a perfect testament of what 
this wonderful system stands for--democracy.
    So thank you for being here and enduring our questions. I 
am sure that mine are going to be a little bit more rigorous or 
maybe not as pleasant as my ranking member. So thank you once 
again, and I will get to it very quickly.
    Now I recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from 
Texas, Mr. Castro.

       OPENING STATEMENT OF RANKING MEMBER JOAQUIN CASTRO

    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman Salazar, for convening 
this hearing on U.S. policy toward Central America and Cuba, 
and welcome to our witnesses from the State Department and 
USAID. Great to see you all again.
    For decades the United States viewed the hemisphere almost 
solely through the very cold war lens that prioritized almost 
at the expense of everything else rooting out communism above 
all other considerations, and in many cases the United States 
used its influence to suppress democratic movements and elevate 
governments that would protect our economic interests and side 
with the United States over the Soviet Union, often at the 
expense of their own citizens.
    While we won the cold war, which is obviously very 
important and crucial not only for the United States, our 
allies, and the world, we lost much of our credibility as 
defenders of democracy, as partners that would build ties based 
on our shared democratic values.
    So when we frame the challenges of the hemisphere through a 
left versus right or socialism versus capitalism lens I believe 
we fail to fully analyze the modern day challenges that both 
Central America and the Caribbean face, for example, rampant 
corruption, democratic backsliding, attacks against the rule of 
law and an independent judiciary, lack of respect for human 
rights, increasing vulnerability to climate disasters due to 
climate change, exclusion of indigenous, Afro Latino, and 
LGBTQI+ communities in the political process, lack of economic 
opportunity and slow recovery from COVID-19, widespread 
violence at the hands of transnational crime organizations and 
gangs.
    And to be clear, and I've said this many times in this 
committee--even before I was ranking member I said it in the 
full committee--I believe that there are leaders on the left 
and the right in Latin America and around the world who have 
abused their people and I actually think that when you get to a 
certain point of abuse and repression it's no longer about 
political ideology.
    You become an autocrat. You become an autocratic leader, 
and we've seen that happen from both right--leaders on the 
right and leaders on the left and I think that we should stand 
up against those leaders wherever they come from.
    So but also, to be clear, it's not our role as Americans to 
choose the leaders for these countries. They have to go through 
a democratic process of choosing their leaders or even to 
choose their economic systems.
    Again, the people have to put those systems in place and 
they have to be committed to sustaining them. We must provide 
our democratic allies in both regions including Costa Rica, 
Panama, and the Dominican Republic, the tools needed to 
strengthen their democratic institutions.
    That engagement was on full display in Guatemala where the 
Biden administration made a dedicated and concerted effort to 
support Guatemala's democratic process and the peaceful 
transfer of power just 70 years after the United States 
overthrew the country's democratically elected president Jacobo 
Arbenz.
    Undoubtedly, the leaders of Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua 
present the opposite version, one that suppresses the economic 
hopes and dreams of their people.
    But we must realize that engaging in cold war rhetoric only 
helps authoritarians in all three countries continue to justify 
their denial of economic, political, and social rights.
    As you all know, they often use us, the United States, as 
an effective foil for their own leadership and to bolster their 
own political fortunes in their countries, and where we are 
consistent focused on today's challenges and use sanctions 
carefully we can make inroads in changing the behavior of these 
authoritarian leaders.
    But we have to focus the conversations on ways we can 
pragmatically work with countries in the region. That means 
partnering on anti-corruption and money laundering efforts, 
engaging with human rights instruments, driving public and 
private sector investment, and working on partnering on climate 
resiliency among other things.
    That means cooperating on stopping the export of guns 
manufactured here in the United States that are used by gangs 
and transnational crime organizations in Haiti, Jamaica, 
Mexico, Guatemala, and Honduras to exacerbate the various 
security and stability crises in the region.
    That's why I introduced the America's Regional Monitoring 
of Arms Sales Act and the Stop Arming Cartels Act. Democratic 
values are what our country was founded upon.
    By focusing the conversation on what the United States can 
do today to partner with countries to foster inclusive, 
responsive, transparent, and democratic institutions we can 
better promote a secure, stable, and free Central America and 
Caribbean and that's what can help us address shared challenges 
like irregular migration and climate change.
    But we must do it together and we must chart a path that 
focuses on the right set of priorities.
    With that, I yield back, Chairwoman.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    Other members of the committee are reminded that opening 
statements may be submitted for the record.
    Today we have witnesses from the State Department and USAID 
who cover American interests in Central America and the 
Caribbean for the Biden administration.
    Mr. Eric Jacobstein is a deputy assistant secretary for the 
Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs at the United States 
Department of State, and Mr. Greg Howell is the senior deputy 
assistant administrator for the Bureau of Latin America and the 
Caribbean of the United States Agency for International 
Development.
    Thank you for being here. Your full statements will be made 
part of the record and I will ask each of you to keep it to 5 
minutes in order to allow time for other members.
    I now recognize Mr. Jacobstein for his opening statement.

                  STATEMENT OF ERIC JACOBSTEIN

    Mr. Jacobstein. Chairwoman Salazar, Ranking Member Castro, 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
testify today.
    I am pleased to outline our overall approach to Central 
America and the Caribbean and to specifically discuss how the 
administration addresses Cuba and Nicaragua as we work to build 
a more democratic, prosperous, secure and climate resilient 
hemisphere.
    Our work in Central America is guided by the root causes 
strategy which addresses long-term structural challenges. We're 
proud of our work in the root causes strategy where we see 
results across the board including in the fight against 
corruption.
    A key part of our strategy is the vice president's Central 
America Forward initiative, which has generated $5.2 billion in 
new private sector commitments.
    In the Caribbean our focus is on strengthening regional and 
civilian security cooperation and promoting economic prosperity 
including through enhanced climate resilience and adaptation, 
energy independence, digital connectivity, and disaster 
preparedness.
    In Cuba our policy focuses on support for the Cuban people 
including their human rights and fundamental freedoms and their 
political and economic well-being.
    The Cuban regime holds approximately 1,000 unjustly 
detained political prisoners behind bars. This includes 
hundreds of peaceful protesters from July 11, 2021. We 
continuously push for their unconditional and immediate release 
through bilateral and multilateral channels.
    Following the July 2021 protests the administration imposed 
Global Magnitsky sanctions on components of personnel of the 
Cuban military and the ministry of the interior responsible for 
the crackdown on these peaceful protesters.
    The State Department also imposed visa restrictions on 28 
Cuban officials who enabled unjust detentions and sham trials 
of peaceful protesters.
    We continually make it clear to the Cuban government that 
human rights remain our top priority in the bilateral 
relationship.
    Communism failed in Cuba. The Cuban people are eager to 
control their own economic destiny. Today, more than one-third 
of Cuba's labor force works in one of the island's 11,000-plus 
private businesses.
    The Cuban people still view the United States as a 
preferred partner. We, therefore, cannot cede space to Russia 
or China and must continue to foster the growth of the private 
sector.
    We recognize that this will not turn Cuba into a capitalist 
democracy overnight but we believe that Cuba's dynamic private 
sector offers ordinary Cubans opportunity for a better life.
    In Nicaragua we're committed to promoting accountability 
for the Ortega-Murillo regime and its brutal repression of 
civil society, its blatant disregard for human rights, its 
efforts to fuel irregular migration toward our Southwest 
border, and its deepening ties with malign actors.
    Our efforts have helped to disrupt migratory flows and 
stymied access to resources that enable the regime to hold its 
grip on power. We continue to take aggressive measures to curb 
regular migration throughout the hemisphere and disincentivize 
use of the Managua Airport by those seeking to profit off 
vulnerable migrants.
    In November 2023 we implemented a new visa restriction 
policy that targets individuals running charter flights into 
Nicaragua designed primarily to facilitate irregular migration 
into the United States.
    We've used this new policy to hold bad actors accountable. 
Together with the Department of Homeland Security and the 
Treasury we issued a May 15 policy alert notifying commercial 
airline carriers, air charter companies, travel agents, and 
service providers of abuse by migrant smuggling and human 
trafficking organizations operating in and through Nicaragua.
    We also are focused on Russia's malign efforts to forge 
military and security relationships with countries in the 
region which are aimed at undermining democracy and weakening 
Western influence.
    To address this challenge, on May 15th the administration 
sanctioned the Russian police training center in Managua for 
its role in enabling the Nicaraguan national police's 
repression of the Nicaraguan people.
    The Biden-Harris administration continues to take actions 
to ensure the Nicaraguan regime's ill-gotten gains cannot be 
used to further its brutal repression of civil society.
    In March we designated Nicaragua's attorney general, who's 
played a role in the regime's property seizures, and in May we 
designated two Nicaraguan gold mining companies that allowed 
the regime to profit from corrupt operations, adding to the 
list of 12 other entities and 50 individuals sanctioned by the 
Treasury Department under Presidential Executive Order 13851, 
which was amended by Executive Order 14088.
    In addition, the State Department has taken steps to impose 
visa restrictions on more than 1,400 individuals connected to 
attempts to silence the voices of the Nicaraguan people through 
repression, unjust detentions, and sham trials.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify here today 
and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Jacobstein follows:]
    
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    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Jacobstein, and I recognize Mr. 
Howell for his opening statement.

                    STATEMENT OF GREG HOWELL

    Mr. Howell. Chair Salazar, Ranking Member Castro, 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
invitation to discuss USAID's work to advance economic 
opportunity, democratic values, and human rights in Central 
America and the Caribbean.
    In the decades that USAID has spent working in the region 
we've seen the consequences of governments putting political 
agendas ahead of people and we've learned how to address these 
challenges most effectively.
    We forge our partnerships not with specific political 
parties or administrations but with people and institutions 
that bravely push for democratic change. This work is critical 
to local communities, to broader regional stability, and our 
own national security here at home.
    That's especially true of USAID's efforts in countries like 
Nicaragua, Cuba, and beyond. In Nicaragua the Ortega-Murillo 
regime's repressive or authoritarian rule is creating an 
increasingly nonpermissive environment.
    With support from malign actors like the PRC and Russia, 
the regime is persecuting civil society actors, closing 
independent media outlets, and attacking those who speak out 
against the regime.
    USAID stands with the brave Nicaraguans making their voices 
heard in support of democratic principles and human rights. 
Those efforts are especially important as USAID is one of the 
few donors supporting human rights defenders and implementing 
partners exiled abroad.
    Some of our deepest, most enduring foreign partnerships 
have stemmed from supporting other nations in their darkest 
hour. The work of these partners to call out the regime's 
abuses and advocate for democratic change is vitally important 
and USAID is proud to stand with them.
    We support those who shine a light on injustice across 
Central America through the Voices Initiative, which brings 
together USAID, the State Department, and like-minded partners 
so we can bring to bear all of the U.S. government's tools to 
protect and promote civic space.
    At USAID we've used our voice to protect our partners and 
those under threat, consulting closely with organizations to 
better understand risks they are facing and increasing our 
programming to meet some of those challenges.
    That includes our work offering at-risk human rights 
defenders, journalists, democracy activists, and anti-
corruption champions with legal, psychosocial, and even 
relocation assistance as well as fellowship opportunities in 
the U.S. universities for those from Guatemala, Honduras, El 
Salvador, and Nicaragua.
    These regional efforts ensure that those fighting for 
democracy have access to protection and can continue their work 
from outside of their countries if needed.
    And in Cuba USAID operates within the parameters of the 
Cuban Democracy and Libertad Acts. For nearly 30 years across 
four U.S. administrations USAID has helped the people of Cuba 
in the face of oppressive government rule, supporting human 
rights, fundamental freedoms, and democratic values by 
strengthening civil society and providing improved access to 
information.
    USAID provides ongoing humanitarian assistance to political 
prisoners and their families and to individuals who face 
hardship because of their political beliefs.
    There are currently more than a thousand political 
prisoners in Cuba and USAID provides assistance to 
approximately 800 of those individuals and thousands of Cuban 
families, and our assistance includes nutritional food items, 
vitamins, over the counter medicines which are an invaluable 
lifeline to improve their physical and psychological well-
being.
    USAID also promotes the free flow of information to, from, 
and within Cuba through greater access to independent news.
    Over the last decade USAID has helped train hundreds of 
journalists whose work in major international outlets has 
counteracted information manipulation by the regime, 
documenting the dismal conditions on the island and 
highlighting the human rights violations by the regime.
    Those violations include forced labor, garnished wages, 
threats, and surveillance endured by Cuban doctors who serve in 
overseas medical missions.
    We are proud to support brave Cuban citizens who are 
risking their lives to advocate for a free and democratic 
future for their country.
    At a time of global power competition in the hemisphere and 
alarming examples of leaders in the region betraying democratic 
principles, it is in the interest of the United States to 
foster partnerships that work toward a more peaceful, 
democratic, prosperous, and stable Western Hemisphere.
    That is why it is critical that USAID maintains a presence 
across the region and supports those who champion our shared 
values.
    Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Howell follows:]
    
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Howell.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning.
    Well, I think that we agree on the end goal so thank you. I 
like very much what you have been saying. So I just have few 
questions here for you and I am going to start with Mr. 
Jacobstein.
    As you know, last month Cuban regime officials were at the 
Miami Airport inspecting something, a tour with TCA, and we 
just learned that last week there was a second secret visit of 
four Cuban regime officials to the same airport, the Miami 
International Airport, but this time four agreements were 
signed with the U.S. Government.
    What type of agreements are those? Do you have any idea, 
Mr. Jacobstein?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much for your question.
    So in terms of TSA, I would say TSA has coordinated with 
the Cuban Civil Aviation Authority and the Cuban authority for 
airport and services for years on airport security measures and 
best practices, always in the U.S. interest.
    Ms. Salazar. But signing agreements with the Cubans, do you 
think the Cubans ever--once they sign they ever fulfill their 
promise?
    Mr. Jacobstein. So I would just say in terms of the visit 
of the FAA I don't want to speak on behalf of the Department of 
Transportation or the FAA.
    Ms. Salazar. Yes, but you're at the State Department. You 
know everything that the U.S. Government is doing vis-a-vis 
Cuba.
    Mr. Jacobstein. I would say the rationale for this visit is 
clear and very much in the U.S. national interest. We're 
interested in aviation safety----
    Ms. Salazar. It's clear. Wait a minute. It's clear. You're 
going to tell me that the Cubans are going to help the 
Americans fight terrorism if they are in the list of terrorist 
states? So maybe, and maybe you can clarify this. I am not sure 
why maybe you guys are trying to create a scenario where you 
can take Cuba off the list of terrorist countries.
    Do you think that's what you guys are doing by granting 
the--by saying it? You see the Cubans are here in Miami and 
they're signing agreements and they're going to help us fight 
terrorism. Tell me.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely not.
    Ms. Salazar. Good. So you're not--you're not going to take 
Cuba off the list of terrorist countries? Is that what you're 
telling me?
    Mr. Jacobstein. You asked me about these visits. These 
visits are intended to promote aviation safety and security 
especially for U.S. passengers. That is fundamental and 
critical to us. We want all these passengers including Cuban 
Americans who go back and visit their family members to be 
safe.
    Ms. Salazar. And I agree with that. But at the same time 
you're talking to Cuba officials. So go back to--it's not what 
Cuba wants, which we know what they want.
    It's what the United States, in this case the Biden 
administration, is looking for, which I really would like to be 
wrong in thinking that you're just laying the groundwork so you 
can take Cuba off that list.
    And I just want you to tell me that I am wrong. Am I wrong? 
You're not planning to take it off?
    Mr. Jacobstein. So as I've said before, U.S. law 
establishes specific statutory criteria for sending in a State 
sponsor of terror designation.
    Ms. Salazar. I am not asking you that. I am asking you 
something different.
    Do you think the State Department at this hour is trying 
to--is creating the conditions and the scenario in order to 
take Cuba off the list of terrorist countries?
    Mr. Jacobstein. At this time there is no review ongoing on 
State sponsor of----
    Ms. Salazar. Say that again.
    Mr. Jacobstein. At this time there's no ongoing review on 
the State sponsor of terror designation.
    Ms. Salazar. Well, you have until July 12th to start that--
to start that ongoing or to start that investigation or that 
study because you have a specific date.
    So you're telling me right now, of course, is, what--it's 
July--I mean, it's June, what, 28th. But you have until July 
12th. So what are you guys planning to do July 13th?
    Mr. Jacobstein. There's no specific timeframe for a review 
but at this----
    Ms. Salazar. Oh, yes. Six months before you need to 
review--according to the law you need to review 6 months before 
and then you take them off or you leave them on.
    So July 12th would be the day.
    Mr. Jacobstein. I don't think that's accurate to say that 
July 12th is the day but I just would say again that should any 
review happen any future review would be based on the law and 
criteria established by Congress.
    Ms. Salazar. Can you just answer yes or no if you guys are 
thinking about taking Cuba off the list? And the only reason 
why I am insisting on this is because if you were to do that 
you're giving that cruel and despicable regime oxygen to do 
what you just said right now.
    A thousand political prisoners are in jail just because 
they went out and they claimed libertad. So can you tell me yes 
or no? Are you guys thinking about taking Cuba off the list or 
not?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I would just say, again, any review of 
Cuba's status on the SST should one happen would be based on 
the law and the criteria established by Congress.
    Ms. Salazar. That means yes, you are thinking about doing 
it----
    Mr. Jacobstein. It does not.
    Ms. Salazar [continuing]. And that is very bad. But we will 
talk about it further.
    Now, but I want to congratulate you at the same time 
because there's a new application on your phone called ta-ta-ta 
which I am not going to say it but it's very good, and there's 
good news for the Cubans because now for what I hear coming 
from the Biden administration you're going to have an app that 
the Cubans are going to be able to use and then when ETECSA 
shuts down then this app is going to allow the Cubans to 
connect to another form of internet and that's great.
    So
    [speaking foreign language]. Do you know anything about 
that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I am not tracking this specific issue but 
happy to discuss our efforts within that.
    Ms. Salazar. But you just said it right now that you want a 
digital--you said digital connectivity. That's No. 1. And Mr. 
Howell said it, too.
    If you give connectivity to the Cubans you're giving them 
the possibility of them demonstrating in the streets of Havana 
and everyone will see them even though they're being beaten by 
the regime.
    That's great. Connectivity--that's all we need. Do you 
agree?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes. The administration supports the Cuban 
people's access to an open, interoperable, secure, and reliable 
internet.
    U.S. regulations already allow for certain activities to 
support the Cuban people's access to information on the 
internet, and the actions announced by OFAC by the Treasury 
Department on May 28th including supporting greater access to 
U.S. internet services, applications, e-commerce platforms, 
that builds on that support.
    And then on top of that I would say our programs through 
the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor they increase 
Cubans' on-island ability to access information and to 
communicate freely and securely using digital security best 
practices and censorship circumvention tools.
    So this is very much at the top of our mind.
    Ms. Salazar. Good, and we're going to work with it because 
I am just saying it to you and to the Cuban people who are 
watching this hearing that there's hope coming.
    And I don't want to extend my time too much and I don't 
want to fatigue my colleagues' patience.
    Just one more, Honduras. The State Department was supposed 
to give Congress a report on democracy in Honduras. It was due 
last week.
    What happened?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I will followup on the status of the report 
as soon as I am back.
    Ms. Salazar. All right. But why haven't you finished it?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Sometimes these reports lag in time for a 
number of reasons. But I don't have anything further than that. 
But happy to provide that.
    Ms. Salazar. Well, you're not giving me--but I am giving--
unfortunately, Madam President Xiomara Castro I am giving her 
an F on the report because democracy is not being protected in 
Honduras and I am going to give you two examples.
    Madam President just honored Nicolas Maduro the highest 
honor Hondurans can give. How embarrassing for the Hondurans, 
the Francisco Morazan Medal to Nicolas Maduro, really.
    And Madame President is China's best friend in the region, 
and not only that, she has established collectivos Chavez 
style. You know what those are? She forms sort of a 
paramilitary--a group of people with guns so they can go and 
attack the police.
    So in my book she gets an F. What do you say about that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much. So our goal----
    Ms. Salazar. I am sure she thanks you, too.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Our goal through the root causes strategy 
in Central America is to focus on promoting democracy, 
prosperity, security----
    Ms. Salazar. But talk to me about Honduras specifically.
    How do you view what she's doing?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Specifically in Honduras there are a number 
of areas in which we cooperate--on migration management, on 
investment facilitation. We recently signed a memorandum of 
understanding on gender-based violence.
    Yes, there are challenges as well and, for example, just 
last fall there were violent attacks on Members of Congress 
during the selection process for the attorney general, and so 
we in response used the Section 353 report to put a sanction in 
place for Ricardo Arturo Salgado Bonilla, who is the current 
minister of strategic planning.
    Ms. Salazar. Are you sending Madam President the message 
that she should not be messing with Honduras' democracy and she 
should not be moving to the left like Chavez, Maduro, Ortega, 
Fidel? Are you sending that message?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Throughout the region we absolutely focus 
on the need to have good----
    Ms. Salazar. And what do they--what do they respond in 
exchange?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Good governance is critical in all the 
countries of Central America and that is a----
    Ms. Salazar. But what do they respond? What do they tell 
you when you send that very noble message?
    Mr. Jacobstein. We have countless conversations. I won't 
get into the internal diplomatic conversations but this is 
something that's top of mind along with our focus on shared 
economic prosperity, anti-corruption, migration management, and 
a host of issues.
    Ms. Salazar. Of course.
    Finally, another 30 seconds--Nicaragua. As you said, 
Rosario and Daniel they have a big pinata. They are now--
Nicaragua has become this platform for people to arrive to come 
to the United States.
    We're talking about a thousand flights. Each person pays 
$10,000. You have had 300,000 people from all over. Right here 
you have people coming from Morocco, from Senegal, from Libya, 
from India, from Tajikistan, from Kazakhstan.
    You have 300,000 people coming to Nicaragua and it happens 
that eight of them were terrorist members of ISIS. They wound 
up in New York. So what list would you put Ortega on?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely, this is top of mind for us. No 
one should profit off of vulnerable migrants.
    Ms. Salazar. What are you going to do about it?
    Mr. Jacobstein. We've taken a number of steps, which I 
outlined in my----
    Ms. Salazar. Give me--tell me two of them.
    Mr. Jacobstein. For example, we implemented a new 3C policy 
Secretary Blinken announced in November 2023 in which we're 
revoking visas for charter airlines who are facilitating a 
regular migration through Nicaragua.
    We put in place a number of sanctions just on May 15th, 
which I mentioned.
    Ms. Salazar. Why don't you put them on the list of 
terrorist countries as well? Can you do that? Could Nicaragua? 
I mean, they're sponsoring terrorists. They're letting 
terrorists go through there to come here. Can we do that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Happy to take back your recommendation. I 
would say that we've taken a number of----
    Ms. Salazar. That wasn't--would you agree with that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. We've taken a number of very robust steps 
to deal with the irregular migration challenge and you have 
seen a reduction in the charter flights. It's still a huge 
challenge and I am working very closely in particular with 
commercial airlines.
    The International Air Transport Association, on the margins 
of the Los Angeles declaration ministerial meeting that 
Secretary Blinken attended in Guatemala, put out a robust 
statement on the work they're doing.
    So we're working both inside of Nicaragua and outside of 
Nicaragua to address this critical challenge.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you for your efforts. I yield back.
    And sorry, I appreciate your patience, Ranking Member, now 
Representative Castro.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    Ms. Salazar. I now recognize the ranking member for five or 
more minutes.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you.
    Eric, you're really earning your government salary today. I 
guess--I do have a question but first let me speak to the to 
the Cuba issue. And, Chairwoman, I respect--you know, she 
obviously has a very strong perspective, very strong, strong 
convictions, and I know many people in her district agree with 
her.
    I guess I want to present a bit of an alternative because 
she knows we disagree on this. You know, since the early 1960's 
we tried one thing, which was to distance ourselves from Cuba, 
sanction Cuba, to isolate Cuba, and the result was that the 
Castros stayed in office for decades and decades and decades 
and the people in Cuba were impoverished. The society fell 
behind other nations of the world even though it has incredible 
potential as a nation and the people have incredible potential.
    And I think it comes down to whether you believe, going 
forward, we should stick to those 1960's policies or whether we 
would have more influence on the direction of Cuba--again, not 
picking their leaders or picking how they do things, just like 
any--we don't need to do for any other nation but have some 
influence in the direction they take, I think that the answer 
is engagement.
    And I know the designation of terror came in the last week, 
I think, of the Trump administration, that the Secretary of 
State made that designation literally on their way out.
    And so I hope that you all will undertake that review. I 
think it is a necessary review and, again, you know, it comes 
down to me whether we're going to take a different approach 
than we took for decades and decades that obviously has not 
worked, and what--or whether we're going to leave Cuba in the 
hands of nations like China and Russia.
    And I think that's why I was supportive of what President 
Obama was trying to do in his second term, which was to 
normalize diplomatic relations, to start preparing at that time 
for the departure of both the Castros and be ready at that time 
in that moment to build a closer relationship with the Cuban 
people and the Cuban government to try to make the country more 
democratic and, you know, to take a different course.
    It didn't end up panning out that way, obviously. In fact, 
when President Trump came in, like I said, in their last week 
they designated the country as a State Sponsor of Terrorism and 
that is where the Biden administration took over and that's 
where it finds itself now.
    But, you know, I hope that we will take a different course. 
So but I did have a question I wanted to ask you. I am 
concerned about the ongoing efforts to undermine and discredit 
the convictions of the eight individuals found guilty of the 
murder of human rights and environmental defender Berta 
Caceres.
    As you know, the appeals to those convictions are ongoing 
and are overdue for a judgment and I am concerned as are other 
Members of Congress that the judges are coming under undue 
pressure to free the convicted corporate executives that 
ordered that murder.
    Is the United States closely tracking the court case and 
will you commit to pushing back against false statements 
regarding the facts of the case?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much for that question, 
Ranking Member Castro. Yes, we are tracking the case and the 
ongoing concerns for environmental defenders in Honduras, and 
happy to work closely with you, your office, and our embassy in 
Honduras to ensure that we followup and ensure a free and fair 
trial on this.
    Mr. Castro. And we're now 2 years in the administration of 
President Castro there who was elected with the backing of much 
of civil society. What do you see as the trends for the safety 
and freedom of civil society in Honduras?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much. So, you know, we 
certainly work very closely with Honduran civil society on a 
number of issues. I was in Honduras earlier this year, met with 
members of civil society.
    I would say in particular met with members of grief in a 
community--LGBT community--who feel under threat. So I feel 
like there's--I feel there's much more we can do. The embassy 
works very closely to ensure that these individuals, these 
groups, have our support but we do think there's more that can 
be done including through the human rights protection mechanism 
in Honduras.
    So we'll continue to push hard on that.
    Mr. Castro. And then one more question for now. In February 
2023 the United States worked to free 222 Nicaraguan political 
prisoners who were imprisoned by the Ortega-Murillo regime.
    In fact, we flew those people directly to the United States 
on a U.S. government-funded flight. Many of those individuals 
have been rendered stateless by the regime and they've applied 
for asylum so they're not at the risk of deportation.
    I understand that of the 160 individuals who applied for 
asylum only one has had an interview so far. So I wanted to ask 
you will you work with your colleagues at DHS to prioritize 
their asylum applications or provide them advanced parole 
before the end of the year, especially given our role in 
bringing them to the United States?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much. So the State 
Department and USAID allocated significant resources to enable 
safe transportation and immediate care for the 222 individuals 
released from prison in Nicaragua.
    However, we don't have the resources or mandate to provide 
the long-term care some of the 222 require. But in terms of 
your specific question, since the arrival of the 222 the State 
Department has worked closely with USCIS to facilitate the 
travel of immediate family members of these individuals from 
Nicaragua to the United States through lawful pathways.
    This will continue as more members of the 222 become 
sufficiently established in the United States. So in terms of 
those who are in process, once members of the 222 submit their 
asylum applications the State Department can provide comments 
on specific asylum applications to USCIS or to the Department 
of Justice. I am happy to work with you to followup on the 
specific procedures.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. I yield back, Chairwoman.
    Ms. Salazar. You had another 5 minutes. All right.
    Now I recognize Representative Self for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    First question for you is what is the political trend? We 
heard a lot about inputs from you. What do you think is the 
political trend in Central America, toward or away from 
democracy? How do you judge the trend?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much. So it's a mixed bag. I 
think that we've seen some positive trends and our goal is to 
meet partners where they are, always in the U.S. interest under 
the root causes strategy to work together to reduce irregular 
migration.
    Mr. Self. Okay.
    Mr. Jacobstein. I would say one very positive example is in 
Guatemala where we've worked very closely with President Elect, 
now President Arevalo----
    Mr. Self. Okay. So we've got a mixed bag. Okay. Thank you.
    The ruling parties in Honduras, Nicaragua, and Cuba are 
each members of the Foro de Sao Paulo. I quote from last year. 
This is their statement. ``The U.S. project of domination over 
Latin America and the Caribbean is facing an environment marked 
by threats to its hegemony.'' That's us.
    ``The dispute with China and the growing presence of 
progressive or leftist political forces in regional 
governments--Central America and the Caribbean--constitute an 
important challenge to a country''--that's us--``affected by 
multiple crises that are manifesting themselves in the 
political, economic, social, and cultural spheres.''
    Now, you said earlier that--and I am going to ask you if 
you believe that the Biden administration can pull these three 
countries out of the orbit of the Foro.
    You said before, and I want to get to this because this is 
important, that you would conduct this review under the 
guidelines set by Congress--the law set by Congress.
    Why should this committee believe that? Because the view is 
that the Biden administration on this what you call irregular 
immigration we consider that lawless. There is no attempt to 
secure the southern border.
    So do you believe--and there are other examples around the 
world that I could give you--do you believe that the 
administration believes--do you, that's you--do you believe 
that you can pull Honduras, Nicaragua, and Cuba out of the 
Foro?
    Mr. Jacobstein. This is an independent forum so I wouldn't 
say that we would have a role to do that. But venues like the 
Sao Paulo Forum could have the potential to play a role in 
advancing hemispheric progress but only if they move away from 
past criticism and toward consensus building.
    So the comments that have been referenced we find 
unconstructive in many ways.
    Mr. Self. You find not constructive and yet you give--in 
fact, you have requested in the Fiscal Year 2025 budget request 
millions of dollars for these three countries. How do you 
reconcile that? You admit it's an independent forum. You're not 
going to pull them out. How do you reconcile that?
    Because the root strategy that you have here--the root 
cause strategy that you have here--how are you going to change 
their behavior? That is the bottom line question.
    Mr. Jacobstein. So the root causes strategy provides 
resources to nongovernmental organizations, implementers 
throughout the region. This is not a blank check to 
governments.
    There's very little money that goes directly to governments 
themselves. We work with governments. We partner where we can 
and where we should. But these are resources that are intended 
to support societies at large.
    So I will go back to one of your colleagues, and I don't 
remember who it was, said that we--yes, it's true we are no 
longer the chief trading partner with Central and South 
America. China is the chief finance partner with Central and 
South America.
    So I don't see how you are going to influence these 
governments if you're simply giving the people who are 
suffering, the NGO's under them, money and yet you're not 
working to change them.
    And I say again I don't know what confidence we can have in 
the administration of doing it under the laws that Congress 
passes.
    Madam Chair, I yield back.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Congressman Self.
    Now I recognize Ranking Member Castro for another round of 
questioning.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you.
    We all agree that democratic backsliding, regardless of 
political leanings or ideology is a concern in the region. In 
his war on gangs Salvadoran President Bukele has filled the 
largest prison in Latin America by undermining the country's 
checks and balances, violating human rights, and bypassing the 
judicial system in the name of restoring law and order.
    I wanted to ask you, Mr. Jacobstein, does the United States 
remain concerned about respect for human rights and the rule of 
law in El Salvador?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you for that important question.
    We'll continue to call for progress on democracy, human 
rights, inclusive governance, transparency, and the rule of law 
during President Bukele's second administration.
    So, you know, I would say it is true that during El 
Salvador's State of exception reported gang crimes have dropped 
significantly but these gains were achieved at the price of 
respect for fair trial guarantees and principles of justice.
    Prison conditions, historically challenging, worsened so we 
raised these concerns with Salvadoran officials, particularly 
prison conditions for minors, and we continue to urge the 
government of El Salvador to end the State of exception both 
publicly and privately.
    Mr. Castro. And, you know, look, I think the election and 
also the polls have shown that the president there has been 
quite popular with the people and I think there is relief among 
the public that gang violence is down and why wouldn't there be 
relief.
    But as a nation we've also stood for--we've always stood 
for the fact that processes matter and respect for the rule of 
law matters, and there are strong indications that people who 
are innocent and not attached to any gangs have been rounded up 
in this dragnet that's going on in El Salvador.
    And this is an example--you know, when I talk about being 
critical of leaders on the left or the right this is an 
example, I think, of where I feel as though if this were a 
leftist leader in Latin America that had imprisoned 2 percent 
of his or her population there would be a lot of people 
demanding that we do something about that and that we, you 
know, take every action in terms of sanctions and everything 
else to stop it.
    But here we have a leader on the right who has now 
imprisoned by many estimates about 2 percent of the population 
and there isn't much said about it.
    And so, yes, that's deeply concerning. The differential 
treatment in leadership and, you know, begs the question 
whether we're going to consistently apply our values as a 
country to leaders depending on where they are or not depending 
on where they are on the ideological scale or spectrum.
    But let me ask a followup on that. President Castro of 
Honduras recently announced plans to build a 20,000 capacity 
mega prison as part of a larger crackdown on gang violence, 
raising concerns that Honduras will follow El Salvador and its 
approach.
    Do you share those concerns and have you communicated them 
with the government of Honduras?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much.
    When it comes to states of exception, just as in El 
Salvador we always believe a State of exception must, indeed, 
be exceptional.
    So it's certainly something that we've communicated 
throughout the region, that we understand the need for 
governments to respond to security situations in their country, 
to respond to the trauma of years of gang violence, but that 
due process is critical.
    Mr. Castro. And that State of exception is essentially an 
emergency position, right? Not something that should last 
permanently there?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes, exactly.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman. I yield back.
    Ms. Salazar. Thanks to you, Ranking Member. Now I will 
grant--I will recognize Representative Self for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    In this discussion that you just had I would quote 
President Reagan, ``There is no left or right. There is only up 
toward maximum individual freedom consistent with civil society 
or there's down to the ash heap of history.''
    So I think freedom ought to be your message, freedom for 
the people of Central America, and regardless of who that is 
the message I would ask you to send to the people of Cuba, each 
of these countries, is freedom--that we will stand with them 
for freedom, for liberty--for personal responsibility and 
liberty.
    With that, I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Representative Self.
    And now I recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning.
    I wanted to--I just wanted to continue with what I was 
asking you and go back now in depth that we have a little bit 
more time about Nicaragua.
    It's embarrassing what they're doing. It's embarrassing, 
and we have allowed it. We're talking about 300,000 people from 
all over the world coming to Nicaragua, a thousand flights in 
the last year, $10,000 per person and we have terrorist cells 
in New York and Philadelphia.
    So, in reality, what can we do to send the message to 
Daniel Ortega, who has transformed that country into a tyranny 
in the last 4 years, that he needs to stop this?
    He's making a joke, a big pinata out of this. So level with 
me. What can we really do?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you.
    So we're taking aggressive action in this space.
    Ms. Salazar. And what does aggressive action mean?
    Mr. Jacobstein. President Biden issued an executive order 
in October 2022 which we implemented this year in May to the 
Treasury Department to sanction two entities in the gold 
sector. This is a sector that is enriching Ortega-Murillo's 
regime.
    So that is one piece of it. You have seen the sanctions, 
countless visa revocations, additional sanctions on his 
attorney general, on the Russia Training Center.
    Ms. Salazar. But you know, Mr. Jacobstein, that those 
people do not want to come to Sax or go to Disney World. So 
they don't really care about coming to the United States.
    It's CAFTA-DR that will hurt them, and I hate to say this 
because it's not very good for the average Nicaraguan but we've 
got somehow to stop these people.
    You know Rosario Murillo is evil. You know this, and look 
what they're doing to us. And Mexico is letting them come 
through. But it comes through Nicaragua.
    So tell me what else can we do? Because we don't want--can 
you imagine--I don't even want to say it in public. Please tell 
me.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you. So we share your concerns. We're 
extremely concerned and that's why we have taken aggressive 
actions both on--you mentioned the visa policy. That's one 
piece. But also sanctions that get them in their pocketbook and 
that's what happened with the gold section saying--the gold 
sector sanctions.
    Sanctioning the Russia Training Center was also really 
important because that went after their efforts to, you know, 
essentially train others in the hemisphere on Russian police 
tactics.
    So we took these actions. But then also, as I said, we're 
working to put in penalties against the regime itself. We're 
also working outside of Nicaragua. That's through the visa 
revocations for executives of charter airline companies through 
our good collaboration per Marshall Airlines to work closely 
with them.
    So we're working across the board to address this issue, 
and our diplomatic efforts, honestly, with foreign governments 
and outreach have helped prevent numerous charter flights bound 
for Nicaragua from Africa, Central Asia, the Middle East.
    Our embassy in Managua, our embassies around the world, are 
sharing information with each other to ensure that these 
charter flights stop.
    Ms. Salazar. So maybe we can send the message--I am just 
going to translate what you said--we can send the message to 
the private sector, meaning those charter companies, that they 
should not be engaging in business anymore with the Ortega 
regime?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely. Our diplomats----
    Ms. Salazar. That's exactly what you're doing?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Our diplomats do that.
    Ms. Salazar. How can we help you send that message loud and 
clear?
    Mr. Jacobstein. We would appreciate that. We're happy to 
work with you and your office in finding ways to collaborate.
    Ms. Salazar. Of course.
    Mr. Jacobstein. We do feel that a number of charter 
airlines have moved out of this space, but in a sense it's 
whack-a-mole.
    Ms. Salazar. We need all of them out of the space.
    Mr. Jacobstein. So we need continue to push. So we'd be 
happy to work with you on that.
    Ms. Salazar. Good. Now, let's go back to Honduras. You know 
that Honduras--I just told you that I give her an F, 
unfortunately, because I have a lot of--thousands of Hondurans 
in my district. Those are hardworking people. They don't 
deserve this type of political elite.
    Now, recently the president has allowed 100 Cuban doctors 
to get to Honduras. We know that the Cuban doctors are treated 
as slaves. USMCA says that you cannot treat any type of 
professional as this type of--be involved in this type of human 
trafficking. El Colegio Medico de Honduras oppose their 
presence.
    This Congress passed a law that requires the State 
Department to cancel the United States visas of any government 
official who is involved in trafficking Cubans or any other 
nationality.
    So are you concerned about the fact that the Cubans are now 
being slaved by Xiomara Castro's government?
    Mr. Jacobstein. We're very concerned about Cuba's medical 
missions. You mentioned the Fiscal Year 1924 appropriations act 
which called for a report listing the countries and 
international organizations for which the Secretary's credible 
information are directly paying the government of Cuba for 
coerced and trafficked labor of Cuban medical professionals.
    So after the president----
    Ms. Salazar. Interrupting you. I mean, you understand that 
that money doesn't get to the Cuban doctor's pocket, right?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes.
    Ms. Salazar. So that government goes--that money goes to 
the United--to the Cuban government. So you pay $1,000 for one 
Cuban, $5,000, and the Cuban doctor gets $200.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely, and we continue to urge 
countries considering hiring Cuban workers to keep agreements 
transparent and respect human rights and internationally 
recognized labor rights.
    Ms. Salazar. But why don't we cancel their visas?
    Mr. Jacobstein. So----
    Ms. Salazar. That will be a very loud message. Would you 
consider that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you.
    Ms. Salazar. Any Honduran government official that is 
involved in the human trafficking of Cuban doctors or any other 
doctor doesn't come to the United States?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes.
    Ms. Salazar. Do you like that idea?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely. We'd be happy to look into any 
information you have on individuals. The department at this 
time does not have----
    Ms. Salazar. Starting with the president, just like you 
guys did with Giammattei in Guatemala, cancel their visa. Don't 
you see that everyone wants to enjoy the American dream and 
come and enjoy what we have?
    So we got to use that in order to help other people: the 
Cubans, the Nicaraguans, the Hondurans, the Guatemalans, the 
Salvadorans. Everybody is entailed.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Happy to receive any information you have.
    Ms. Salazar. Do you agree with that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. We'd be happy to----
    Ms. Salazar. I need you to do that because that way we're 
sending a very strong message to these governments that they 
cannot be playing around and doing what they're not supposed to 
do when it comes to human rights.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes. Happy to receive information on this 
when--on any of these issues and to followup with you.
    Ms. Salazar. All right.
    Now, finally, finally, let's go back to Cuba and 
connectivity. You know that I've always said that the Biden 
administration after July 11th the best thing that he can do 
for the Cubans is to give them connectivity.
    You know very well, and the Biden administration has been 
there with the Cubans and you have recognized that they have 
come out into the streets just simply screaming ``Libertad,'' 
right, and connectivity is--if they were only--if they could 
have connectivity, which is having internet, once ETECSA which 
is the Cuban internet company shuts down the average Cuban 
would go back into the streets, demonstrate, and at least know 
that if they're being beaten at least the world will see them.
    That's what I would need, and I represent the Cuban exile 
community in Miami. Connectivity. What do you know about this 
new app?
    Mr. Jacobstein. As I mentioned previously, I don't have 
information on this app but would be happy to followup. I would 
just say, more generally----
    Ms. Salazar. What do you mean you don't have information on 
this app? This app is--it's out there and we're about to 
announce it.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Look forward to learning more. I would say 
it's important to note that despite the Cuban government's 
efforts to control access to information millions of Cubans are 
online every day accessing a whole variety of information, 
including our very active U.S. embassy----
    Ms. Salazar. No. No. No. No. But when they go out and here 
or there you know what the Cuban regime does? They shut it 
down.
    How do I know? Because I have people in Cuba telling me, 
oh, they just shut down internet and it's just text. Obviously, 
video is no good because they're going to see how the 
repressive apparatus is beating them and breaking their necks 
on the streets.
    Mr. Jacobstein. And this is precisely why our programs 
increase Cubans' on-island ability to access information, to 
communicate freely and securely using digital security best 
practices and censorship circumvention tools. So this is top of 
mind for us.
    Ms. Salazar. All right. Good. I am glad that it's a 
priority for me, too. And, finally, I just want to go--Mr. 
Howell, you have not been able to--I am very sorry that I've 
not spoken with your or have given the opportunity to speak a 
little bit more.
    But, you know, when I was a news reporter for Univision I 
was the Central American bureau chief and I lived in El 
Salvador and Honduras, and I can say to you that USAID is like 
God the Father. Everyone loves USAID because it brings the best 
of the American system, not only the American dollars.
    So I have high regard for USAID. I have been hearing lately 
that within Central America the USAID policies have changed.
    What do I mean by that? That sometimes you give money to 
those programs that do not necessarily go--are aligned with 
what the local people want, that we're talking too much about 
cultural and social and sexual orientations and basically what 
the Guatemalans and the Hondurans--what they want is a job, be 
able to learn a trade, be able to have a little loan so they 
can live their little American dream in their country.
    So what do you say to that--to those criticisms that I am 
sure you have heard them?
    Mr. Howell. Thank you, Chairwoman Salazar.
    Actually, in Honduras we are working closely with the 
people of Honduras and we've worked there for over 60 years and 
proud to work with civil society groups like the National Anti-
Corruption Council which has actually exposed cases of 
corruption very recently with a former vice minister of 
security under the previous administration.
    We also work to prevent and stop gender-based violence, 
which is a terrible scourge in the----
    Ms. Salazar. Why don't you give me two or three programs 
that are the top programs, let's say, in Guatemala and 
Honduras? Those two countries. Top programs where you are 
allocating the most resources in.
    Mr. Howell. Well, as far as one of our success stories, 
certainly, working with the private sector. USAID has worked 
with 70,000 coffee farming families. That's over half of all 
coffee farming families, and with international buyers are 
exporting high-quality Honduran coffee internationally----
    Ms. Salazar. Good.
    Mr. Howell [continuing]. Creating jobs and improving the 
incomes of farming families.
    Ms. Salazar. What else?
    Mr. Howell. What else? We're actually working closely with 
the labor ministry of Honduras on legal pathways for H-2 visas. 
We've tripled the number of H-2 visas emitted from Honduras to 
allow Hondurans to work ethically and temporarily here in the 
U.S. under this lawful Pathways program that benefits not only 
the Honduran people but also U.S. consumers and U.S. companies.
    Ms. Salazar. Sure. What about Guatemala?
    Mr. Howell. Well, glad you asked. I worked there for 4 
years and worked very successfully as well with the private 
sector in Guatemala training youth, preventing violence, 
working with civil society and as well the municipalities 
across Guatemala.
    Climate change is another key aspect of our work, trying to 
maintain and save the Mayan Biosphere Reserve in the northern 
part of the country.
    Ms. Salazar. But have you heard the same thing that I've 
been hearing--and I am not being so critical because I said I 
know USAID is not perfect but it brings the American spirit to 
these countries--that sometimes you are putting too much 
emphasis on those programs that have nothing to do with the 
sensitivities of the place.
    Mr. Howell. No, appreciate that. We appreciate feedback all 
the time, but currently----
    Ms. Salazar. You haven't heard it?
    Mr. Howell [continuing]. Under the president, President 
Arevalo----
    Ms. Salazar. Yes.
    Mr. Howell [continuing]. He has assumed office so we're 
pleased to just----
    Ms. Salazar. No, but before. Before Arevalo we were there 
during Giammattei and to everybody else, I mean, like you said, 
70 years before.
    So you have not heard the criticism that I've heard? But I 
will share that with you if you want to in private so maybe you 
can hone in on those programs according to what the local 
people want.
    Mr. Howell. I appreciate that, ma'am----
    Ms. Salazar. Good. I will work with you and try to help 
you, because I know the area very well. So thank you very much 
for your patience----
    Mr. Howell. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Salazar [continuing]. And to you, Mr. Jacobstein. So I 
think that the clock saved you, right?
    [Laughter.]
    Ms. Salazar. I thank the witnesses for their valuable 
testimony and the members for their questions. The members of 
the subcommittee may have some additional questions for the 
witnesses and we will ask you to respond to them in writing.
    And pursuant to committee rules, all members may have 5 
days to submit statements, questions, and other materials for 
the record, subject to the length limitations.
    Without objection, the committee stands adjourned. Thanks 
again.
    [Whereupon, at 3:11 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]


                                APPENDIX

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               Material Submitted for the Hearing Record
               
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