[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE
WORKFORCE
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
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HEARING HELD IN WASHINGTON, DC, MAY 16, 2023
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Serial No. 118-10
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Education and Workforce
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: edworkforce.house.gov or www.govinfo.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-687 WASHINGTON : 2025
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COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE
VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina, Chairwoman
JOE WILSON, South Carolina ROBERT C. ``BOBBY'' SCOTT,
GLENN THOMPSON, Pennsylvania Virginia,
TIM WALBERG, Michigan Ranking Member
GLENN GROTHMAN, Wisconsin RAUL M. GRIJALVA, Arizona
ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York JOE COURTNEY, Connecticut
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia GREGORIO KILILI CAMACHO SABLAN,
JIM BANKS, Indiana Northern Mariana Islands
JAMES COMER, Kentucky FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida
LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
BURGESS OWENS, Utah MARK TAKANO, California
BOB GOOD, Virginia ALMA S. ADAMS, North Carolina
LISA McCLAIN, Michigan MARK DeSAULNIER, California
MARY MILLER, Illinois DONALD NORCROSS, New Jersey
MICHELLE STEEL, California PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
RON ESTES, Kansas SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
JULIA LETLOW, Louisiana LUCY McBATH, Georgia
KEVIN KILEY, California JAHANA HAYES, Connecticut
AARON BEAN, Florida ILHAN OMAR, Minnesota
ERIC BURLISON, Missouri HALEY M. STEVENS, Michigan
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas TERESA LEGER FERNANDEZ, New Mexico
JOHN JAMES, Michigan KATHY E. MANNING, North Carolina
LORI CHAVEZ-DeREMER, Oregon FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
ERIN HOUCHIN, Indiana
Cyrus Artz, Staff Director
Veronique Pluviose, Minority Staff Director
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C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hearing held on May 16, 2023..................................... 1
OPENING STATEMENTS
Foxx, Hon. Virginia, Chairwoman, Committee on Education and
the Workforce.............................................. 2
Prepared statement of.................................... 5
Scott, Robert C. ``Bobby'', Ranking Member, Committee on
Education and the Workforce................................ 8
Prepared statement of.................................... 10
WITNESSES
Cardona, Miguel, Secretary, U.S. Department of Education..... 12
Prepared statement of.................................... 14
ADDITIONAL SUBMISSIONS
Chairwoman Foxx:
Status of Letter Responses--Department of Education dated
May 14, 2023........................................... 106
Submitted letter dated May 24, 2022, to Chief Operation
Officer Cordray........................................ 376
Submitted response letter dated December 15, 2022, to
Representative Foxx.................................... 378
Submitted letter dated April 3, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 380
Submitted response letter dated April 17, 2023, to
Chairman Comer......................................... 385
Submitted response letter dated April 28, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 388
Submitted letter dated February 27, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 389
Submitted response letter dated March 16, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 393
Submitted response letter dated May 5, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 395
Submitted letter dated September 28, 2022, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 396
Submitted letter dated January 12, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 402
Submitted response letter dated January 26, 2023, to
Chairwoman Fox......................................... 404
Submitted letter dated June 22, 2022, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 406
Submitted response letter dated January 11, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 409
Submitted response letter dated May 10, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 410
Submitted letter dated March 23, 2023, to Assistant
Secretary Lhamon....................................... 411
Submitted response letter dated April 11, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 417
Submitted letter dated April 25, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 419
Submitted response letter dated May 15, 2023............. 423
Responding to Committee Document Requests................ 424
Submitted letter dated April 5, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 430
Submitted response letter dated April 21, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 437
Submitted response letter dated May 15, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 438
Submitted letter dated February 24, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 442
Submitted response letter dated April 3, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 445
Submitted letter dated June 18, 2020, to Chairman
Flaherty and Counsel Kamenar........................... 448
Submitted letter dated May 12, 2023, to Secretary Cardona 469
Submitted letter dated April 28, 2023, to Secretary
Cardona................................................ 473
Submitted response letter dated May 12, 2023, to
Chairwoman Foxx........................................ 478
Adams, Hon. Alma, a Representative in Congress from the State
of North Carolina:
Letter dated March 15, 2023, from the United Negro
College Fund (UNCF).................................... 49
Letter dated March 16, 2023, from the American Council on
Education (ACE)........................................ 50
Letter dated March 13, 2023, from Spelman College........ 53
Letter dated March 15, 2023, from Morehouse College...... 480
Burlison, Hon. Eric, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Missouri:
Letter dated January 19, 2023, from Lance Gooden......... 85
Jayapal, Hon. Pramila, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Washington:
Committee Member PPP Loans............................... 62
College Tuition Comparison of Committee Members.......... 63
Miller, Hon. Mary, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Illinois:
Article from Office of Population Affairs (OASH)......... 73
Owens, Hon. Burgess, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Utah:
Article from foxbaltimore.com............................ 36
Thompson, Hon. Glenn, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Pennsylvania:
Report from National Center for Education Statistics
dated May 2019......................................... 128
QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record by:
Secretary Cardona........................................ 483
EXAMINING THE POLICIES AND PRIORITIES
OF THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION
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Tuesday, May 16, 2023
House of Representatives,
Committee on Education and The Workforce,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m. House
Rayburn Office Building, Room 2175, Hon. Virginia Foxx,
(Chairwoman of the Committee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Foxx, Wilson, Thompson, Walberg,
Grothman, Stefanik, Allen, Banks, Comer, Smucker, Owens, Good,
McClain, Miller, Steel, Estes, Kiley, Bean, Burlison, Moran,
Chavez-DeRemer, Williams, Houchin, Scott, Grijalva, Courtney,
Sablan, Wilson, Bonamici, Takano, Adams, DeSaulnier, Norcross,
Jayapal, Wild, McBath, Hayes, Omar, Stevens, Leger Fernandez,
Manning, Mrvan, and Bowman.
Staff present: Cyrus Artz, Staff Director; Nick Barley,
Deputy Communications Director; Mindy Barry, General Counsel;
Hans Bjontegard, Legislative Assistant; Solomon Chen,
Professional Staff Member; Christina Delmont-Small,
Investigator; Tyler Dufrene, Research Assistant; Cate Dillon,
Director of Operations; Daniel Fuenzalida, Staff Assistant;
Sheila Havenner, Director of Information Technology; Amy Raaf
Jones, Director of Education and Human Services Policy; Andrew
Kuzy, Press Assistant; Marek Laco, Professional Staff Member;
John Martin, Deputy Director of Workforce Policy/Counsel; RJ
Martin, Professional Staff Member; Hannah Matesic, Director of
Member Services and Coalitions; Audra McGeorge, Communications
Director; Eli Mitchell, Legislative Assistant; Gabriella
Pistone, Legislative Assistant Oversight; Rebecca Powell, Staff
Assistant; Ian Prince, Professional Staff Member; Mary
Christina Riley, Professional Staff Member; Chance Russell,
Professional Staff Member; Kent Talbert, Investigative Counsel;
Brad Thomas, Senior Education Policy Advisor; Dhrtvan Sherman,
Minority Staff Assistant; Amaris Benavidez, Minority
Professional Staff; Nekea Brown, Minority Director of
Operations; Scott Estrada, Minority Professional Staff;
Elizabethe Payne, Minority AAAS Fellow; Rashage Green, Minority
Director of Education Policy & Counsel; Christian Haines,
Minority General Counsel; Ilana Brunner, Minority General
Counsel; Stephanie Lalle, Minority Communications Director;
Kota Mizutani, Minority Deputy Communications Director; Emanual
Kimble, Minority CBCF Fellow; Veronique Pluviose, Minority
Staff Director; and Banyon Vassar, Minority IT Administrator.
Chairwoman Foxx. The Committee on Education and the
Workforce will come to order. I note that a quorum is present.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to call a recess at
any time. Good morning, everyone, and welcome today's hearing.
On my first day as Chairwoman of the Committee on Education the
Workforce this Congress, I made a promise to officials in the
Biden administration.
Think about investing in a parking space on Capitol Hill.
You will be here often. That is because I see congressional
oversight as a primary duty of the Committee. Secretary
Cardona, I am pleased you are the first administration official
to make your statutorily mandated half-mile pilgrimage to the
Committee this Congress.
Candidly, Mr. Secretary, I wish we could have you appear
before us more often. In lieu of your presence, I have directed
no less than 11 oversight letters to the Department of
Education since the 118th Congress began. My first letter
notified you of the Department's obligation to provide timely
and complete responses to Committee oversight requests.
Mr. Secretary, I wish this hearing was an endorsement of
your Department's cooperation with our requests, so we could
then proceed in good faith to the Fiscal Year 202024 budget
request. Instead, the Department has engaged in disingenuous
and misleading actions while being minimally responsive to
congressional oversight.
Article 1 vests the power of the purse in the Congress.
James Madison wrote in Federalist 58 that, ``This power over
the purse may in fact be regarded as the most complete and
effectual weapon with which any Constitution can arm the
immediate representatives of the people for obtaining a redress
of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and
salutary measure.''
Therefore, before turning to the budget proposal for which
you are here to advocate, I would like to lay out the concerns
from this Committee of the people's elected representatives to
which the Department has been derelict in responding. Mr.
Secretary, the Department has repeatedly attempted to
circumvent the Constitutional authority of Congress by
legislating the President's student debt scheme through
executive fiat.
Six times the Department extended its pause on student loan
payments. Each time American families scrambled to prepare for
the restart of loan payments, which education bureaucrats left
them in the dark until the 11th hour. The American taxpayer has
paid 175 billion dollars for the repayment moratorium. It must
end.
Then Mr. Secretary, the Department proposed a radical
alteration to the income drive repayment plan. This back door
attempt to drive through the President's free college agenda
will cost the American people at least 230 billion dollars over
the next decade.
Finally, Mr. Secretary, on top of that, the Department is
attempting to provide nearly two-thirds of the benefit to those
in the top half of the income spectrum. Not only has blanket
cancellation been rejected by the courts, renounced by nearly
all economists, and even balked at by former Obama officials,
it defies logic.
Student debt cancellation as written is a regressive policy
that benefits the top half of earners disproportionately
enforces degree-less blue-collar workers to pay for PhD's. The
three policies comprising the President student debt scheme
would cost the American taxpayers upwards of 1 trillion
dollars. Meanwhile, the Federal Government is 32 trillion
dollars in debt.
Each borrowed dollar comes out of worker's paychecks
through the inflationary tax. I wrote February 10, 27th, and
April 25th, regarding these issues, and have yet to receive a
satisfactory answer. Furthermore, Mr. Secretary, the Department
acts as one of the main proponents of this administration's
culture war on the American people.
Your job is to administer faithfully the laws enacted by
Congress, not misuse those laws to indoctrinate, yet the
Department has radically rewritten Title IX, so that sex is
defined as an ideological construction, rather than a
biological reality. Under your Department's regime self-
identification is deemed sufficient for a man to be a legal
woman, and therefore compete in women's sports.
One could self-identify as a man on 1 day, and a woman the
very next day. What a reductive surface level view of
womanhood. Frankly, I have yet to hear you define what a woman
is, yet you propose sweeping rules to redefine women as a
class. Mr. Secretary, I wish I could say the pervasive,
progressive ideology championed by your Department has stayed
in university lecture halls, where students are mature enough
to debate the concepts.
It has trickled down to K-12 schooling. Your Department
recently announced it would give priority to history and civics
grants for school programs that promote diversity, equity and
inclusion. Also, and not coincidentally, recent NAPE data
revealed that under your watch history scores for eighth
graders have hit record lows, the worst since the assessment
began in 1994.
Our country was built on the guiding principles of liberty
and natural rights. Left-wing history teachings tear down our
founding by ignoring the good for the bad and ascribing
collective guilt for whole populations for the actions of their
ancestors. Aside from dumbing down a whole generation, this
radical new history is aimed at subverting our national story,
as in imperfect people collectively bound by higher ideals.
Finally, Mr. Secretary, let us not forget the COVID-19
pandemic. By prolonging school closures at the behest of
teachers' unions, your Department made the single greatest
education policy failure in our Nation's history. You let
students lose 20 years of progress in core curriculum like
math, reading and history.
It did not take a scientific study to tell you that remote
learning would crush K-12 progress. All it took was listening
to parents. If COVID proved one thing, it is that writing a
blank check for education is not the answer. We effectively
turned the Department into a bank during the pandemic, sending
190 billion out the door to K-12 schools.
We know how that turned out. Those funds have been used to
push the administration's ideological agenda, such as
subsidizing LGBTQ+ cultural competencies in California. Your
Department refused to conduct proper oversight over COVID
relief funds, so on April 3d my Committee stepped in and
requested documents and accountability.
We have yet to receive satisfactory response. That is the
thrust of your Department's action this past year. Now let me
quickly turn to the Fiscal Year 202024 budget proposal.
Ironically, this administration is trying to justify a 10.8
billion dollar increase in discretionary spending for the
Department of Education from the Fiscal Year 202023 level.
Earlier I called the half mile to Capitol Hill a pilgrimage
because I feel that is exactly how administration officials
view it. This building is foreign to them. Officials shy from
oversight and accountability, instead of treating it as their
sacred duty to answer elected representatives.
We want answers. We want answers for parents left in the
dark, children put a generation behind, women athletes being
discriminated against, and the American taxpayer left with the
bill. That should be the starting point for any budget
discussion. With that, I yield to the Ranking Member for an
opening statement.
[The statement of Chairwoman Foxx follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Scott. Thank you, Dr. Foxx, and before I begin, I would
like to take a moment to acknowledge that tomorrow is the 69th
anniversary of the Brown v. Board of Education decision. In
that decision the Chief Justice wrote that in the field of
public education the doctrine of separate, but equal, has no
place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.
Now, almost 70 years later, the American's public schools
are as segregated by race and class today as they were in the
late 1960's. According to a government accountability office
report last year more than a third of public school students
attend a racially segregated school.
Tomorrow, I will reintroduce legislation The Strengthen
Diversity Act, and the Equity Inclusion Enforcement Act, to
meaningfully address school segregation, and finally realize
the promise of Brown. Now, Mr. Secretary, good morning, and
thank you for being with us today.
I am pleased to say that under your leadership the Biden
Harris administration has helped restore the Department's
commitment to supporting public schools, supporting students,
and supporting educators.
Two years ago, as the Chair pointed out, we secured the
largest investment in the K through 12 education, in our
Nation's history in the American Rescue Plan, which made it
possible for schools to reopen safely, stay open safely,
addressing learning loss, and respond to student's social and
emotional needs. We ensured that the greatest resources went to
those with the greatest need.
This administration has forgiven more than 38 billion
dollars in student loan debt for 1.75 million borrowers,
including loan borrowers who were defrauded by their
institutions. It has helped provide borrowers with a clear
pathway to repayment by improving the public service loan
forgiveness program, and the income driven repayment program.
The Department also helped protect student's safety and
civil rights by updating Title IX rule and issuing new guidance
to protect students with disabilities from discriminatory
discipline practices. These are just some of the key steps the
Department, under this administration, has taken to deliver for
students and educators.
Today we look forward to hearing more about how the
President's budget proposals will build on this progress. It is
often said that a budget proposal is a statement of values.
Investments we choose to make, or choose not to make, are a
clear way for the American people to see whether their elected
officials are putting their taxpayer's money where their mouths
are.
President's budget proposal reflects a continued commitment
to expanding access to high quality education at every level.
Here are just a few examples. The proposal shows up funding to
help underserved schools close achievement gaps, these are the
same programs that are helping students recover from the
pandemic.
To lower the cost of college, the budget proposes $820.00
in increased maximum Pell Grant, as well as a downpayment
toward free community college, and it boosts funding for career
and technical education, which is critical for our economy.
These investments will be transformational for our educational
system.
Regrettably my republican colleagues have chosen to use
their time in the majority to pursue policies that harm
students and roll back the clock on our progress. Last month
the House Republicans passed a bill that makes devastating cuts
to programs for our students and educators.
It eliminates billions of dollars for schools serving low-
income students equivalent to removing more than 60,000
educators and staff from classrooms.
The proposal reduces funding for as many as 7.5 million
students with disabilities and makes college more expensive by
eliminating Pell Grants for 80,000 students and reducing the
maximum award for the remaining 6.6 million recipients.
Finally, it eliminates badly needed student debt relief for
more than 40 million eligible borrowers. Our nation's students
and educators deserve better. We should be working together to
address the urgent challenges in education such as rebuilding
and modernizing school infrastructure, addressing achievement
gaps, protecting student's civil rights, and lowering the cost
of college for current and future borrowers.
Committee democrats have introduced and will continue to
introduce legislation that will take key steps toward these
goals, and simply put when we invest in education, students can
succeed. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, for your time, and for your
work to help every student access high quality education. Thank
you, Madam Chair, and I yield back.
[The statement of Ranking Member Scott follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Pursuant to
Committee Rule 8(c), all members who wish to insert written
statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the
Committee Clerk electronically in Microsoft Word format by 5
p.m., 14 days after the date of the hearing, which is May 30,
2023.
Without objection, the hearing record will remain open for
14 days to allow such statements, and other extraneous
materials referenced during the hearing to be submitted for the
official record.
I now turn to the introduction of our distinguished
witness. We have before us today Hon. Miquel Cardona, who is
Secretary of the U.S. Department of Education. Secretary
Cardona, I recognize you for your verbal statement.
STATEMENT OF HON. MIGUEL CARDONA, SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF
EDUCATION
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Good morning, Chairwoman
Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, and distinguished members of the
Committee. I am pleased to join you today to testify on behalf
of President Biden's Fiscal Year 2024 Budget Request for the
Department of Education.
I often say that investing in our children is as important
as investing in our defense. It protects our future. It
strengthens our society. It reinforces the prosperity of our
country, our economy, and the power of our example around the
world. This budget request is about whether we choose to invest
in that future for our children, and for our Nation.
We can choose to invest in giving our children a strong
foundation for learning right away by expanding high quality
preschool for more 4-year-olds across America. We can choose to
invest in a better education for our students in Title I
schools where they can learn the fundamentals of reading, math,
and other rigorous subjects they will need to succeed in life
because those schools are able to tailor instruction and use
data to provide one on one support thanks to 2.2 billion
dollars in additional funding.
We can choose to invest in guaranteeing that our students
will have highly qualified teachers with years of experience
because we worked early to fully prepare, develop and empower a
strong and diverse educator workforce. We can choose to invest
in better learning conditions for our students with another
half billion dollars to advance our goal of doubling the number
of counselors, the number of social workers, mental health
providers available to our students.
We can choose to double the funding for full-service
community schools that help our students get wrap around
support from their own community. Crucially Madam Chairwoman, I
know we have a lot of common ground on this. We can choose to
invest in pathways to careers and skills to compete and succeed
in a strong economy.
This budget would deliver more funding for career and
technical education, more funds to create career connected high
schools, and more investments in helping every student become
multi-lingual.
We can also choose to invest in making sure postsecondary
education is inclusive, and affordable for the many Americans
who will benefit from a college credential or degree. That
means increasing Pell Grants. It means investing in proven
strategies that help students better afford college and succeed
in earning a degree.
It means supporting our HBCUs, our TCUs, and our MSIs. It
means making universal community college a reality nationwide.
We have a choice to give our students. We have a choice to give
them more, not less, with this budget. We have a choice to go
back to a broken status quo, or to raise the bar for education
together.
As we consider this budget request let us appreciate that
even as we respectfully disagree in some areas, we all believe
passionately in the importance of giving our young people a
brighter future. Let us acknowledge that we have many areas of
common ground, from wanting our children to have a strong
foundation in reading and math, to seeking more skills and
career pathways for our young people.
The choice we face now is whether we are going to build on
common ground that we have to invest in our children or protect
a broken status quo that is failing too many of our students.
Now is not the time to breakdown in partisan or divisive
culture wars. Now is the time to choose to come together on
behalf of the students, parents and educators who are looking
to us to serve and raise the bar for education in this country.
Working together I know we can, and we will. Thank you, and
I am looking forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Secretary Cardona follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Secretary for staying
within the time. Now, under Committee Rule 9, we will now
question witnesses under the 5-minute rule. I will start by
asking questions. Mr. Secretary, as I read through your
statement I saw only a passing reference to the restart of loan
payments.
You said the Department was requesting 2.65 billion to
administer FSA programs, ``to support students and student loan
borrowers as they navigate the financial aid application, and
student loan repayment processes.'' I, and Subcommittee
Chairman Owens wrote you on April 25th asking 12 questions
about the readiness of the Department and FSA for the restart.
We have not received any answers. Last week in your
testimony before the Senate Appropriations Committee you said
the Department is preparing to restart Federal student loan
payments. Will you commit to no more extensions of the
repayment pause?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx. As you know,
the one-time target debt relief plan that President Biden
proposed will provide up to 43 million Americans with some much
needed relief, but we recognize that the loan payment will be
restarting, and as we said in the past, the Supreme Court
decision, which we are eagerly awaiting, we feel positive that
it is going to be a positive outcome.
Chairwoman Foxx. I am under a time constraint, so I would
like you to get real specific, okay? Are you going to pause
anymore of the repayments?
Secretary Cardona. We communicated that after the Supreme
Court decision is made, loan repayments will start within 60
days of the decision.
Chairwoman Foxx. Okay. What are the specific interim and
final action steps you've advised loan servicers to take in
preparation for the restart?
Secretary Cardona. We are in communication regularly with
loan servicers, and we recognize that part of the success of
the repayment plan will be based on how our borrowers receive
information in a timely way, in a clear way. We have engaged
with our servicers to ensure that that is the expectations.
Chairwoman Foxx. How many written communications explaining
the details of the restart has the Department had with loan
services from January of this year until the present?
Secretary Cardona. Sure. My team is engaging with yours to
provide that information, and we will make sure that that
information gets to you in a response.
Chairwoman Foxx. Have either you or Mr. Cordray spoken
directly with the loan servicers about the restart any time
during the period January 2023 through the present?
Secretary Cardona. As I said, the information that you
requested will be provided, and it will answer who from the
Department has communicated.
Chairwoman Foxx. Will that include sufficient information
about sufficient compensation for the student loan servicers to
have the capacity to return to repayment? Will you include
that?
Secretary Cardona. I will ensure that my team has this
information that you are requesting, and while I do not have
the information in front of me now, I will tell you that I will
continue to act in good faith to be responsive.
Chairwoman Foxx. Is it true that you have cut the service
levels provided by the servicers and the funding they receive
by amending the current contract, while at the same time you
have extended those contracts through December 2024? Is that
true?
Secretary Cardona. Chairwoman Foxx, part of the requests
that we have here is to provide sufficient funding to make sure
that we can provide good service to our borrowers, and we feel
that this budget reflects our attempt to make sure that we are
providing good service to our borrowers through their
servicers.
Chairwoman Foxx. Mr. Secretary, this act of Congress that
established the Department of Education included the finding
that ``Parents have the primary responsibility for the
education of their children in states and localities and
private institutions have the primary responsibility for
supporting that parental role.''
You agree, do you not, that teachers, administrators and
school boards should defer to parents as the primary teachers
of their children, and teachers, administrators and school
boards should support parents, not undercut them and work
against them. Is that correct?
Secretary Cardona. As a former school principal, I would
always tell parents at graduations you are the first and most
influential teachers. I say we play a supporting cast, and the
schools that are most effective are those that honor and engage
parents in a meaningful way.
Chairwoman Foxx. Okay. On a related point I note that a
report released in March of this year by the Defense Freedom
Institute found that 8 of the Nation's 20 largest school
districts allowed students to use names and pronouns without
parental knowledge and consent, yet some of these same
districts included New York City Department of Education, LA
Unified School District, Chicago Public Schools require
parental permission to dispense over the counter medications.
Mr. Secretary, you agree, do not you, that school districts
that allow students to use names and pronouns in school align
with their gender identity without parental knowledge and
consent undercuts parents.
Secretary Cardona. As I said before Chairwoman, it is
critical that schools and parents are engaged together and
supporting children. Decisions like that are made at the local
level. The Federal Government does not have a role in that.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you again, Mr. Secretary, and I now
recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Grijalva is recognized for 5
minutes. Thank you.
Mr. Grijalva. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and
welcome. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, it is good to see you again.
The discussion on the proposed budget by the administration is
an investment on top of an investment and is good strategy, but
my question Dr. Cardona, has to do with the republican budget,
or the illusion of a budget, which calls for a 22 percent cut,
even on the 22 levels, based on debt, and based also on the
premise that the military would not be touched at all.
I asked the question because I think it is important to
contrast this investment budget that you are bringing before
the Committee today versus what is a budget that devastates
Title I, devastates all the support and supplemental services,
especially toward our most vulnerable students.
Speak to that point. Speak to the point as well Mr.
Secretary, there is a demographic shift going on in our public
education system across the country, reflected in the area I
represent. Not only the diversity in terms of race and
ethnicity, but also poor kids being the bulk in some areas of
who is attending public education.
Why this investment is important to that transition that
this country is going through in our public schools, and why
these proposed cuts, how they devaState this and why that
cutting those programs at this time to those populations, what
it means to our country going forward, sir.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Grijalva, and you
know, as a lifelong educator I have been able to see how these
dollars, these Federal dollars help students who are most in
need. You mentioned Title I. Students who are struggling to
read. We have work to do in this country to get our students
reading at the level they should be reading.
There is no reason in this country we are not leading the
world. Our plan is aimed at addressing the literacy numeracy,
and the achievement of students in many other areas. I have
seen the impacts of Title I dollars for example. I have seen
the impact of the IDEA dollars, for our students, and quite
frankly, you are absolutely right.
Cuts in these areas would negatively impact those students
who need it most. For example, it would result in a 22 percent
cut would result in approximately 60,000 teachers being cut
from Title I dollars across the country.
Our students cannot afford that. For students that are
students with disabilities, I would argue these students have
probably been impacted the most by the pandemic because they
did not have access to the small group setting, the one-to-one
device support that they often receive.
We would see a cut of 48,000 teachers under IDEA. It would
have a negative impact on our entire country, but I think the
impact would be most felt by those in greatest need.
Mr. Grijalva. I have other questions having to do with
Title I that you responded to, the 22 percent funding cut,
questions about middle school and its importance in our system,
American Indian and Alaskan Native education, school librarians
and the right to read.
As I think the mention of ideological and cultural issues
being dominating the discussion around education, and not the
fundamental needs that it has, and what we could supplement
those needs within terms of resources. I want to congratulate
the Department of Education for continuing to protect the
students right to read, and the parents right to choose what
they read.
Not when you have over 2,500 books banned across libraries
in this country, or attempts to ban those books, that is a
frightening thought. If we are talking about ideological
grievance issues, you know, one parent's rights are important
and need to be protected, but the ability of children to have
access to the best information and for that to be empirical,
and for that to be protected as I right I think is also
important.
I want to congratulate the Department for that, and with
that I yield back, Madam Chairwoman.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Grijalva. Mr. Walberg, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you Mr.
Secretary for being here.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Mr. Walberg. During the prolonged school closures caused by
the pandemic and the outsized, and I will say that again,
outsized teacher's union influence, many parents were able to
get a window into their child's education like never before. It
is about time. They should have been doing it sooner.
Parents knew that school closures were harming their
children, and they needed to get back in the classroom as
quickly as possible. We recently saw a sample of the devasting
impact these school closures had on our children's education.
In the Nation's report card student testing scores have
declined in history, civics, reading and math.
Last year the acting Associate Commissioner of the National
Assessment of Education Progress said, ``These are some of the
largest declines we have ever observed in the single assessment
cycle in 50 years.'' Mr. Secretary, in February 2021 the CDC
planned to release guidance to reopen schools regardless of
community spread of COVID-19.
Then the CDC consulted with the American Federation of
Teachers, and its President, Randi Weingarten, who provided
edits to the reopening guidance. These edits according to CNN's
Jake Tapper at the time, would have allowed schools serving 99
percent of children to potentially close.
Mr. Secretary, we know how important in person schooling
is, and we know how devastating remote learning has been. By
2021, we also knew that COVID posed low risk to children. The
question comes, and Mr. Secretary, do you think the CDC was
wrong to provide AFT President Weingarten veto power over their
guidance, and do you think teachers' unions were wrong in
discouraging schools from reopening?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Walberg, for the
question. I share the strong belief that our students needed to
be in schools right away, and that we needed to reopen our
schools. When I took oath on March 2, 2021, 46 percent of the
schools in this country were open full-time.
Within 9 months we were over 98 percent of our schools open
full-time, so my actions prove that I too, felt schools should
be reopened.
Mr. Walberg. You felt that Randi Weingarten should not have
had veto power for the CDC?
Secretary Cardona. I can speak to the Department of
Education and what we were focused on.
Mr. Walberg. Well, we are expecting the Secretary of
Education to stand up to the teachers' union when they are
wrong.
Secretary Cardona. I will be very frank with you.
Mr. Walberg. They seem to have veto power with this.
Secretary Cardona. Mr. Walberg, when I was Commissioner of
Education in Connecticut, and then when I became Secretary of
Education for the whole country, we worked with various
different stakeholders who were all onboard with safely
reopening our schools.
Mr. Walberg. Well, I would hope that I guess getting to the
punchline here, we would hope that in the future that when we
have science that goes on, and certainly not locking down
schools again, that the Department of Education be the
strongest proponent for making schools open and working for the
kids.
Let us go on. We know that CDC closely consulted with two
teachers' unions, the AFT and the NEA on school reopening
guidance in 2021. This year on April 25, the New York Post
reported, and I quote, ``AFT and the National Education
Association also asked the White House and the CDC for help
shaping its press strategy to show the rank and file they and
the Biden administration were on the same page.''
Mr. Secretary, yes or no, please. Did your Department have
any role in advising the NEA or the AFT on their public
relations strategies, yes or no?
Secretary Cardona. We take our work to communicate with the
public very seriously. We don't engage in other----
Mr. Walberg. Yes or no. That is what I asked. It is a
simple----
Secretary Cardona. I understand you are asking a yes or no
question, but I want to be very clear on the values of the
Department. We take the role of communicating with families----
Mr. Walberg. Did you have a role in advising the NEA or
AFT?
Secretary Cardona. We do not have a role in advising.
Mr. Walberg. You do not have a role?
Secretary Cardona. We do not have a role in advising the
NEA of AFT.
Mr. Walberg. Okay. Mr. Secretary, in states where teachers'
unions are the strongest schools were especially slow to open,
including Michigan. According to the AIA's Return to Learn
tracker on June 7, 2021, only 38 percent of California's
schools were fully in person.
In Illinois only 40 percent were in person, New Jersey 23
percent were fully in person. Despite the well understood
knowledge of the COVID in that it posed very low risks to
school children, and the presence of an available vaccine for
teachers, why do you think schools were so slow to reopen where
the teachers' union's influence was, and has been the
strongest?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. As I said at
the beginning, for me as a father and as an educator, it was
critical that we open schools as quickly and as safely as
possible. The Department of Education acted immediately to make
sure that we provided guidance to schools which was never done
from the onset of the pandemic until that day, to the sum of
what we did.
We have been providing guidance on the safe school
reopening, and we are proud of the fact that within months over
98 percent of our schools were safely reopened.
Mr. Walberg. I see my time has ended. Thank you. I yield
back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Walberg. Mr. Courtney, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Courtney. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Mr.
Secretary for your great service, and your testimony this
morning. One of the many strengths that I think you have
brought to this office is that for the first time in history
you served as Secretary of Education as a graduate of a career
and technical education high school, Wilcox Tech, where my good
friend and colleague, Congresswoman Hayes, represents the city
of Meriden.
We really are in a moment right now in our economy where a
career in technical education schools shine. We have a 3.4
percent unemployment rate, 9.6 million job openings in the U.S.
economy, and the mission in the curriculum of career and
technical education is perfectly positioned to help close the
skills gap to fill many of those positions.
I had an opportunity to witness that a couple weeks ago at
a national signing day ceremony at Norwich Tech High School in
my district where half of the graduating class of Norwich Tech
signed letters of intent with their parents, their teacher, and
their new employer, sitting right beside me.
It was like NFL draft day with a packed auditorium,
cheering these kids on, signing them up to be electricians,
painters, a large portion of those were I think as you know,
signing letters of intent to go work at Electric Board
Shipyard, which this year has a target of hiring 5,750 people
between Quantum Point, Rhode Island and Groton, Connecticut to
fill the bill of Congress's increased demand for submarine
production.
Again, you mentioned in your testimony that one of the work
horses of a career in technical education, which is the Federal
Perkins Grant Program, received a 43 million dollar increase in
your budget, bringing it to a total of 1.5 billion, a historic
level of Federal investment in career and technical education.
As I heard that day in Norwich, they are turning away
hundreds of kids who would love to take advantage of the
benefit of career in technical education, and that is where
your other initiative, the career connected high school
program, which you mentioned, would again expand that
curriculum out to comprehensive high schools, something which
you and I discussed during a visit there.
Can you talk again about again this really, I think,
surgical focus, in terms of trying to address opportunities in
our economy right now that young people could really benefit
from?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. I really
feel strongly that this is an issue where we can come together
in bipartisan fashion and really transform the opportunities
that are students have. I think it is critical that we move to
evolve our education system to be more responsive to the
options that students are going to have when they graduate.
I think it is time, as a country, that we come together to
challenge the 4-year college or bust mentality that still
exists in many places. I was a technical high school graduate,
with options. I chose a 4-year college. We need to provide more
students across this country with options to be--to join
workforce, or to start with the workforce and then go to a 4-
year college, often times paid for by the employer, right?
It is about providing options. I joke that my personal
plumber is doing really well. He happens to be in Aruba today
while I am testifying, but there are options for our students.
The career connected high school is making sure that the
technical career pathways that are available to students, that
as you said, will lead to jobs, are not available only to
students in technical high schools.
We need to make sure that our comprehensive high schools
provide access to career and college counseling, and pathways.
I have seen amazing examples in my visits across the country of
schools that are preparing students for 4 year colleges, but
are also preparing students for options that exist upon
graduation, or upon graduation of a 2-year school.
I have seen comprehensive high schools engage in advisory
boards with industry partners, so that their curriculum could
be lined up to what the needs are in the field. We want to
promote that. We want to make that the norm, not the exception.
Right now, it seems like technical high schools and very niche
high schools are doing this.
All students across the country deserve this opportunity.
As I have said before, I feel like this is something if we put
our heads together in a bipartisan fashion, we can really
transform education.
Mr. Courtney. Thank you, and again with my remaining
seconds I think it is important to note that the McCarthy debt
limit bill, which would put an indiscriminate chainsaw into
Perkins Grants and career connected high schools is exactly
what our employers across the country do not want.
They want to connect people with the right skills to give
them jobs, careers, that will support themselves and their
families. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Courtney. Mr. Allen, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Allen. Thank you, Madam Chairman. Mr. Secretary, our
Nation is 32 trillion dollars in debt. We talk about how it is
all about the children, and it is amazing that we are
maintaining our standard of living on the backs of future
generations. Even worse, the Department of Education is dead
set on enacting costly programs like this mass student loan
bailout.
Student loan cancellation will cost every taxpayer in my
district $3,527.00. Let me say that again. My constituents in
the 12th District of Georgia may have to pay the Federal
Government and additional $3,527.00 to cover the cost of
someone else's student loan.
Do you believe that canceling student loans will
financially help Americans who never went to college? Yes or
no.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question, Congressman
Allen. I believe the targeted debt relief plan will help
prevent defaults and get people back on their feet. I also
believe that the strategies that we are taking in making
college more affordable----
Mr. Allen. Sir, yes you believe canceling these loans will
help folks who actually never went to college.
Secretary Cardona. Sir, I believe if we help folks get back
into repayment without falling into default it would help not
only them, but their local economy.
Mr. Allen. Do you believe that canceling student loans will
reduce the amount that students will borrow now that they have
every incentive to think that the Federal Government will pay
their loans for them? Yes, or no?
Secretary Cardona. I believe you are referring to the
income driven repayment plan. The income driven repayment plan
that we are proposing is----
Mr. Allen. I know about the plan, sir, just yes, do you
believe that you should continue this process?
Secretary Cardona. We are expanding options for students to
attend college. There are too many students in this country
that think college is out of reach for them. We're fixing that.
Mr. Allen. Do you believe that canceling student loans will
reduce the amount that colleges charge students? Yes, or no?
Secretary Cardona. In conjunction with our accountability
measures, and our efforts to make sure that we are holding
colleges accountable for a good return on investment, I believe
that we are working on making college more affordable.
Mr. Allen. Yes sir, but studies show that increasing
subsidies to colleges and universities cause the cost of
college to increase, in fact that is true under every Federal
program. In my first term in Congress, we passed the Every
Student Succeeds Act to replace the No Child Left Behind.
We did this through block grant funds directly to the
states, and let the states take control of our education. We
also did this to reduce the size, scope and the budget of the
Department of Education. President Biden's Fiscal Year 2024
budget calls for an increase of 10.8 billion in Department of
Education funding.
This comes after 190 billion of COVID relief funds sent to
K through 12 schools to help them reopen and respond to the
effects of the pandemic. The Department's lack of oversight led
to their inability to track how funds were being spent. Now
Congress does not know if these funds were effective for the
purpose of COVID relief.
In short, by providing these funds the Department of
Education, we are effectively throwing money down a dark hole
while we appropriate even more tax money to the Department of
Education when the Department has already shown their inability
to manage the 190 billion in COVID relief funds.
Secretary Cardona. Sir, I know that the American Rescue
Plan dollars were a lifeline to districts. In my visits to
states, I have had parents, students, educators tell me that
those dollars were the reason why students were able to re-
engage. I am sure in your district as well, many students
benefited from the American Rescue Plan.
Mr. Allen. Sir, I am talking about the accountability of
the funds.
Secretary Cardona. We have on our website, if you go to
ed.gov and ARP data transparency link, so that it is very clear
where the dollars are spent, and we engage regularly with each
State and make sure that the dollars are going where they were
intended by Congress.
Mr. Allen. Well, let me ask you this. Is the Department
taking any action to change their oversight protocol to ensure
funds appropriated to them are being spent in ways that were
intended?
Secretary Cardona. We take the fiscal responsibility very
seriously, and we are engaging in processes, and I would be
happy to have my team share with you very specifically, what we
are doing, and how we are supporting states using the dollars
to support students getting back into school, mental health
supports, and academic recovery.
Mr. Allen. Well, the reason I asked the question is that we
would like to explore that oversight. Mr. Secretary, the Biden
administrations Fiscal Year 2024 budget request proposed a new
200 million career connect at high schools' competitive grant
programs. Yes, 16 seconds, how are you going to get these funds
to rural areas that do not have the expertise to apply for
these grants?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. I know that
time is short, happy to followup. We have a rural community
practice. We are engaging proactively with our rural
communities. They deserve the attention and access to the
grants as well.
Mr. Allen. Okay. Please respond to that in depth, so that
we make sure rural America benefits, and with that I yield
back, Chairman Foxx.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Allen. Mr. Sablan, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Sablan. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
Mr. Secretary Cardona, welcome once again. Thank you for your
service also, and so many of your great ideas.
Secretary Cardone. Thank you.
Mr. Sablan. Including the fact that----
Mr. Scott. Mr. Sablan, could you talk into the mic?
Mr. Sablan. Including the fact that my good colleagues
district, 110,100 borrowers would lose access to the PSLF and
the student forgiveness. Secretary it is really difficult to
try and figure out how over 14 years I have tried to work as
much as I can to get programs out to my district, the Northern
Mariana Islands, and now to see the impact of the proposal, the
debt reduction proposal where we all go back to the school year
2022 levels.
Over many programs which many of my colleagues here will
bring up today, but for me, Secretary Cardona, the Trio program
is a long-standing program that provides direct support
services for over 800,000 underserved students to promote post-
secondary education success.
In their Default on America Bill, republicans propose to
significantly slash program's budgets by reverting to Fiscal
Year 2022 funding levels, what would this mean for the
administration of the Trio programs, how would students
enrolled in Trio experience this cut?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. Without
question, the reduction to 22 levels would have a negative
impact on all major programming, in particular, with Trio
programs there would be a 262 million dollar cut, and it would
eliminate services for almost 200,000 students that would
otherwise have access to Trio programs and allow students to
access higher education.
Mr. Sablan. Mr. Secretary, I bring up the Trio program is
an example. I come from a district where many of our population
are below the poverty level. We need access to Title I
programs, Pell Grants, all of those different programs that go
out there, including assistance in feeding our students for
lunch, at least breakfast.
All of those would be severely cut, and I do not know how
we would address this in my district alone. I am talking about
the Northern Mariana Islands. There, what is happening now is
really significant for the government, let alone now if these
cuts--proposed cuts were to occur. This would have impacts on
the several years ahead of us.
Bringing some of the investments we have already made at a
loss. We cannot move forward. We cannot maintain them, and I
know Mr. Secretary, you brought up a lot of different things in
some of your, including a letter that you wrote. Tell me, is
there anything more that you think we--the Department, our
students, our teachers, our administrators can potentially
lose?
Secretary Cardona. Sure. Thank you for that question. Look,
I think it is important to contextualize this by framing it
investing in our schools is an investment in our students.
Right? I likened it to defense. To protect our future, and the
economic growth of this country, investments in our students,
in our schools is critical.
Cuts would limit services. I mentioned career technical
education, and I mentioned Trio. Mental health support for our
students. It is important to remember that we are in the middle
of a youth mental health crisis. Cuts would remove 40 new
grants, and 300 existing programs that are providing support
for students and their mental health.
When we think about these cuts we have to put faces to
these cuts. This would mean the data showed one in 3 high
school girls over the last 3 years has considered suicide. One
in 3. Cutting mental health supports now to levels lower than
we currently have would mean that more high school girls would
not have access to that mental health support that they need.
If we do not put faces to this, it is hard to understand
the impact that would have on our country. Everyone's district,
every student would suffer. IDEA, we have over 7 and a half
million students with disabilities who would not have the
support that they would have had before. I can go on sir, but I
know that my time is up.
Mr. Sablan. Yes.
Secretary Cardona. Devastating impacts.
Mr. Sablan. Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. Madam
Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Sablan. Mr. Owens, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you, Secretary, for being here.
I am going to go back a little bit. My dad received his PhD in
1951 in soil science, agronomy. I received a BA in biology and
chemistry in 1975 in biology. I know you graduated in 2001. One
of the things that we shared in common, my dad and I, even
though there was a 24-year difference is something called
organic chemistry.
Organic chemistry is the study of organic compounds
property reactions, and predictability, in other words it is
order. Even though you graduated in a different study
altogether, would you agree that changes in organic chemistry
cannot change because we wish it to be so?
Secretary Cardona. I would want to engage in further
conversation.
Mr. Owens. Well no. This is a very simple question. Can we
change the properties and reactions of organic chemistry
because we believe that we wish it so. Yes, or no? I mean it is
your basic common sense what do you think?
Secretary Cardona. I donnot have enough information in
organic chemistry.
Mr. Owens. Okay. Well, I will answer as a scientist. I will
say no. You cannot change organic chemistry. If we did, we
would not have a pharmaceutical industry alive today, okay?
There is another law, a law of gravity. I know that the Biden
administration believes in executive orders but let me just ask
you this. Based on equity, is it possible to change the law of
gravity so blacks are no longer impacted by it? The answer is
no.
Secretary Cardona. I am not sure sir.
Mr. Owens. Okay. Let me just say my point is this. The law
of gravity is one of God's laws. It is not going to change
because we wish it so.
Secretary Cardona. Right.
Mr. Owens. It is based on predictability. Now, I was a top
athlete in high school. I went to University of Miami All
American. Played in the NFL All Pro. It was based on the fact,
as a man, there are certain things we can predict about me my
chromosomes, DNA, hormones, muscle mass, bone mass. Would you
say it would be fair for me any time in this process, from high
school until 30 years old, that I had a chance to box or
wrestle with your daughter, competing with your daughter?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. I think I
understand now the line of questioning that you are getting to.
Let me just be very clear here.
Mr. Owens. Well, I want to make sure I have just a few
minutes here. The question is would that be fair for me with
what I just described as a man, because I decided I want to
change myself to being a woman, that can now compete against
your daughter?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. My responsibility and my privilege
to make sure that all students have access.
Mr. Owens. Let me just say this, I am sorry, please just
bear with me. Would you say as an 18-year-old young man that
means my home boys decided we wanted to be woman. Would it be
okay for your daughter for me to be able to go into your
daughter's bathroom to expose myself because I felt I was a
woman? Would that be fair to your daughter?
Secretary Cardona. Congressman, I see where----
Mr. Owens. By the way, I have five daughters, so I am very
passionate about the questions that I asked you right now, and
I would think there would be no question in your mind as a
father what these answers should be. There should not be
hemming and hawing about this. This is--I am talking about your
daughter now.
Secretary Cardona. Congressman, there is nothing in our
proposed Title 9 regulations that determine how bathrooms
should be used.
Mr. Owens. Okay. Okay. All right. Let us move on, let us
move on. There is something here I want to share with
everybody.
Secretary Cardona. Sure.
Mr. Owens. This is called the Cloward-Piven Strategy.
Something put in place back in 1966, and I hope Americans
really pay attention to this. It was two Marxists from
Columbia. Their goal was very simple to propose a--by this way
this time the democrats owned the House, Senate and
administration.
They proposed to create a crisis in the current welfare
system that would ultimately bring about its collapse and
replace it with a system of guaranteed annual income, which is
Marxism. They hoped to accomplish this by informing the poor
blacks, the blacks, of their rights to welfare and assistance,
encourage them to apply for benefits, and in fact, overloading
the already overburdened local and national bureaucracy.
Would you agree to use misery as a political strategy is
the essence of evil?
Secretary Cardona. Congressman, I will be very pleased to
share how our budget is going to help us.
Mr. Owens. Right now, I am talking about using misery to
get an agenda across. Is that evil? I will say let me just say
this. It is. By the way, the results of this--this is winning
to the race, created this effort Cloward-Piven, created
generations of black people for whom working for a living was
an extraction.
I came from a community in which we led the country in the
growth of middle class, men committed to college, men committed
to marriage. This is what did us in. Political, progressive
policies that hurt our kids. I want to place in the record 23
schools in Baltimore have zero proficiency in math.
I will bet you if your child was in these schools here, you
would not sit around and say it is okay to leave them there.
You would do whatever you had to do regardless of your income.
You would take two or three or four jobs. Poor people have the
same love for their kids as elitists.
I want to say that I want to pass and enter this into the
record, American people are waking up.
Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
[The information of Mr. Owens follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Owens. We are going to get this done, and I yield back
my time.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Owens. Ms.
Bonamici, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, thank you for your
continued work to support students, and I agree with you about
the value of investing in education. Needless to say, I am very
concerned about the cuts that actually republicans have already
voted for on the floor that will negatively affect student
learning and pandemic recovery, harm student's mental health,
cut CTE programs, increase teacher's stress, make college
education less attainable, and actually diminish opportunities
to access a high-quality education for our most marginalized
students, including students of color, students with
disabilities from low-income families, and those who identify
as LGBTQI.
I want to note particularly for the Chairwoman and my
friends and colleagues on the other side of the aisle. I
recently participated in a roundtable conversation with parents
across the country, parents of trans students. It was a very
meaningful conversation.
I encourage you to do the same, as you said Mr. Secretary,
put faces to these stories. I implore you to stop picking on
trans students. Mr. Secretary, under your leadership the
Department of Education secured funding for and implemented
programs to improve school safety, increase wrap around
services, expand that important access to career and technical
education, and decrease the cost of college.
Mr. Secretary, I want to ask you about Title IV (a) of the
Every Student Succeeds Act, which funds well-rounded education,
addresses school conditions, including school safety and
technology access. The increased funding for Title IV (a) from
the appropriation's process, and also from the bipartisan Safer
Communities Act has tremendous potential for school
improvement.
How are states and school district drawing down that Title
IV (a) funding, and also the funding from the bipartisan Safer
Communities Act to compliment and supplement efforts to make
schools safer and advance well-rounded educational
opportunities for all students?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Thank you for the question,
and as an educator safety in schools is always going to be the
No. 1 priority, especially now when we're seeing so many cases
of mass shootings, just this morning I learned of another one.
We are over 225 in this year alone, in this country. 135
incidents in our schools. 19 of which resulted in death. Safety
is a critical priority. Title IV dollars, BSCA dollars,
bipartisan Safer Community Act dollars are really needed for
our schools to ensure appropriate access to mental health
supports, making sure that we have more personnel available to
students who are experiencing trauma, or have experienced
trauma, or are struggling to help get them the supports they
need before.
The dollars are intended to provide professional
development for educators. Often times the schools are
overlooked. We can talk a lot about providing support for
schools, but we omit the importance of making sure that our
teachers have the professional development that they need.
You cannot be informed in trauma or given professional
development for trauma in a 1-hour after school staff meeting.
The dollars in BSCA, the dollars in Title IV are intended to
build the capacity of our professional work staff to make sure
they have the tools they need.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Thank you for mentioning
professional development as well. I wanted to just followup
with a couple of yes or no questions. Will you commit the
Department's resources, including those available through BSCA
to working with school districts to improve school safety in a
manner that incorporates restorative evidence-based practices
and avoids the overuse of SROs in schools?
Secretary Cardona. We are certainly working with states
currently to make sure that they know how to use the BSCA
dollars to make sure that more resources are available.
Proactive resources, which include professional development and
restorative practices.
Ms. Bonamici. I appreciate that. I have been communicating
about this issue. Are you willing to followup with me within 8
weeks to discuss the Department's progress in distributing this
Title IV (a) funding?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. We will followup.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, as students
continue to recover from missed learning time, it is important
for the Department to develop best practices to improve student
achievement, and to share those practices with educators,
school leaders, districts and State leaders. How can the
Federal Government, and the Institute of Education Services
pursue innovative solutions to address the effects of the
pandemic on student learning?
What would budget cuts to education research mean for the
ability of schools to effectively address missed learning?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, and I absolutely
agree with you. We learn best from each other. That is one
thing that I learned as an educator, that often times the best
way to get learning to happen is to create conditions where
folks are learning from each other on shared problems of
practice.
We have created different mechanisms for that. Cutting
funds for IDEAs, and others, would only limit the ability for
us to engage partners, but also invest in evidence-based
strategies that we know are aimed at improving instruction, but
ultimately student outcomes.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you Mr. Secretary, my remaining couple
of seconds I just want to thank you for your emphasis as well,
on multi-lingual education, which is not only good for you
know, a global economy, but it's also good as the brain
research shows for student learning overall, so thank you
again, and I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici. Mr. Grothman, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Grothman. Thank you. Thanks for coming on over to our
humble building here. The Federal student loan system is built
to encourage students to take out as many loans as they can
without regard to how much they'll be able to repay. Mass
amounts that students are borrowing is affecting their ability
to have a family, buy a car, or own a home.
Only 32 percent of young college graduates with student
loan debt say they are living comfortably. Do you think a
student should take out more loans that they will comfortably
be able to afford?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. I recognize
that our current system is broken, and we have the
responsibility to make sure that----
Mr. Grothman. Okay. People should not take out more loans
that they could afford, right? Can you agree on that? Can you
agree people should not take out more loans than they could
afford?
Secretary Cardona. Well, it all depends, sir. If you're an
18-year-old you might have to take loans that you cannot afford
as an 18-year-old, but eventually when you have a good job you
can pay for those loans. We are improving our----
Mr. Grothman. We will give you another question. Are you
aware that the Higher Ed Act limits financial aid advisers from
using their expertise in counseling borrowers to borrow less in
cases where it is obvious the student is taking out too much
debt? In other words, if I am going to a university and there
are counselors there and their counselor thinks hey, you could
make do with $4,000.00 this year, instead of $8,000.00.
That counselor cannot say you would be better off taking
out only $4,000.00 in debt. Are you aware of that?
Secretary Cardona. We are making sure that we are
communicating with our universities around the practices that
we feel help students.
Mr. Grothman. Yes. They cannot do that. You know that is
against the law right now if you do not know that.
Secretary Cardona. Yes. I would be happy to look into any
concerns that you have about bad actors in the field.
Mr. Grothman. Well, it is not bad actors. Yes, I have got a
bill right now, and I want to see if you will support it. Okay.
We have these financial aid counselors in the universities,
okay, and if somebody comes in and says I want to take out the
maximum amount, I am going to take out $10,000.00 in loans this
year, it is right now against the law in many cases for the
counselor to say I think that is foolish, do not take out
$10,000.00. I think you can swing it on $4,000.00.
Do you think the local aid counselor should have that
ability?
Secretary Cardona. I believe counselors should be able to
give students accurate information around what they can----
Mr. Grothman. The accurate information includes the ability
to say I do not think you should be taking out such a big loan.
Secretary Cardona. Right. I believe counselors should be
able to counsel----
Mr. Grothman. Good, you are going to be able to help me on
this bill. That is what I want. okay. That is good. Next. Under
your new proposed income driven repayment plan, borrowers will
only pay back 63 cents of every dollar they borrow. Moreover,
according to an analysis by the Urban Institute, just 22
percent of undergraduate students will fully repay their loans.
How can call this a repayment plan when barely almost 80
percent of the undergraduates will not pay the loans they took
out?
Secretary Cardona. The income driven repayment plan, and I
am really excited about this, is going to open access to
college for so many more students, and the goal is to make sure
that they can pay their debt based on their income. As their
income increases, their debt payment increases.
Mr. Grothman. Okay.
Secretary Cardona. I have seen too many students, sir, as a
former educator who ruled out college, intelligent students,
students who have tremendous potential, rule out college
because of the fear of the cost. I am proud that we are
creating a pathway now for all students to feel comfortable,
and make sure that college costs are not the reason why they
don't pursue higher education.
When I think of the talent in this country that is going
untapped, sir.
Mr. Grothman. Well first all, I am just going to object for
a second there. You are implying that if you do not go to
college your ability is untapped. I think that is a little bit
snobby in my opinion. I know so many wildly successful
businessmen who do not go to college, who got a skill, they are
in construction, they are in trucking, and to say that your
potential is untapped because you did not go to college, I
think you are a little bit of snobbery there that I find
offensive.
Be that as it may, I want to talk a little bit about
diversity because we hear a lot about diversity. I know a
university professor in English, she has been involved in like
seven different schools. Over 100 different professors of
English she has dealt with, none of them would he classify as
politically conservative.
There was a study by Harvard student newspaper study that
said only 6.4 percent of the people who responded were
conservative leaning after attending a private Ivy League
institution. My friend's experience. Does it concern you when
you have that little diversity in ideology in major
universities? Does that bother you?
Secretary Cardona. Some of my most influential and best
teachers never attended college.
Mr. Grothman. Okay well good, I am glad you got that right.
We will stop running on people who do not go to college because
I find they sometimes contribute a lot more to society than the
people who did go to college, so that is good, but the question
I have for you--does the lack of diversity in thought of both
of the professors and the college graduates, does that bother
you?
Secretary Cardona. I am concerned also at some of the
attacks on DEI, if that is what you are referencing sir.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Grothman. Mr. Takano, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Takano. Thank you, Madam Chair. As someone who
remembered my mother, me, yesterday, she never got a college
degree, and she succeeded very well. She had the good sense to
tell me you are going to college. Mr. Secretary, I share some
of my colleagues on the other side's concern about the costs of
higher education, the costs of post-secondary education.
That part of the brokenness of the system is you know, more
and more of the costs of going to school at higher ed is being
borne by families. We have seen states subsidize a public
higher ed much less than they did several decades ago. I also
think that there are bad actors out there.
I want to ask you about the Higher Education Act, and the
incentive compensation ban that was instituted several decades
ago. What do you believe the congressional intent was behind
this incentive compensation ban?
Secretary Cardona. I believe it was intended to limit the
ability for compensation for services that were provided to
students by third party servicers.
Mr. Takano. Well would you agree that the incentive
compensation ban was intended to prevent colleges from behaving
in unscrupulous ways, and do you know of some of the behaviors
that Congress noticed at its hearings several decades ago,
about the behaviors that they were seeking to curb?
Secretary Cardona. I am having a hard time hearing you.
Could you repeat the question please?
Mr. Takano. Okay. I am sorry. Can you--do you know some of
the behaviors that Congress was attempting to curb with the
incentive compensation ban?
Secretary Cardona. I believe some of the behaviors that
were intended to be curbed were some of the behaviors of third-
party servicers profiting or targeting students for programing
that is less quality.
Mr. Takano. Well, that might have been. I mean well are you
familiar with online program managers? That's something that
has emerged in the last 10 years?
Secretary Cardona. I am.
Mr. Takano. They are known as OPMs. Are you aware that what
many critics are saying about online program managers, these
critics are alleging that these program managers are getting
around the intent of the incentive compensation ban.
Secretary Cardona. I am aware of them. I believe that
higher education institutions must be given the opportunity to
evolve and meet the student where they are. There is an
increased demand for flexibility in higher education. I think
higher education institutions are right to evolve to make sure
they are meeting students where they are.
With that said, we are in the process of ensuring greater
oversight to make sure that they are being managed well, so
that it does not result in what we have experienced with
borrowed defense, and having upwards of 14 billion dollars in
loans discharged because students were taken advantage of by
certain online predatory practices.
Mr. Takano. Well thank you, thank you. Are you concerned at
all about how the 2011 bundled service guidance by the Obama
administration may have opened the door for abuses and
opportunism by these online program managers?
Secretary Cardona. I am aware that there have been concerns
expressed, and that there have been concerns expressed by my
colleagues on the Hill about the potential negative impact on
students, yes.
Mr. Takano. Well, thank you for that. Critics are charging
that students are being sold online programs that are
deceptively marketed as equivalents of the in-person programs
on campus. Typically financed with debt. Are you concerned that
online program managers may be inducing colleges to set up
these online programs as cash cows that mislead and target
underserved students by aggressively extracting revenue, and
misrepresenting the value of these programs?
Secretary Cardona. We are currently in the process of
rulemaking to make sure we put in the checks and balances that
are needed while also giving colleges the opportunity to
explore partnerships that recruit students differently, and
meet students online needs the way students have asked for.
Mr. Takano. Well, you know that Representatives DeLauro,
Jayapal, Mr. Bowman and myself in March, as public comment on
the incentive compensation ban, we recently co-led a letter.
Borrowers in a social program offered to the tuition sharing
agreement between the University of California, and to you,
duly acting as a public company and an online program manager,
were left with a median debt of $112,000.00.
The median salary for their degree was $52,000.00 2 years
after their completion. I see my time is running out, I just
wanted to make sure I got that information, and that is the
sort of behavior we are concerned with, and how this might be
driving students to an unsustainable debt. I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Takano. Mr. Banks, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, in April 2021, your Department
proposed a rule incentivizing public schools to incorporate
critical race theory in U.S. history and civics classes. The
rule cited Ibram X. Kendi's work, and the 1619 project as
examples of the sort of ideas that the Department would
promote.
However, just 3 months later you backtracked on the plan,
and released a watered down, updated guidance that did not
mention Ibram X. Kendi, or the 1619 project. Mr. Secretary, why
did the Department remove references to Ibram X. Kendi and the
1619 project in its updated guidance?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, for the
question. We take the role of supporting our districts and
schools very seriously, and we know that decisions around
curricular materials are best left to local districts, and we
will continue to have that belief as we move forward.
Mr. Banks. You--the guidance was there telling teachers and
schools to go teach about Ibram X. Kendi and 1619 project. You
took it out. Did you take it out because you decided ultimately
that what they are teaching is inappropriate to teach our kids?
Secretary Cardona. As I said, Congressman Banks, we take
the role very seriously of what we have, and the Federal
Government does not have a role in curriculum. What we
recognize and what you mentioned illustrates----
Mr. Banks. I am asking whether or not it is appropriate.
Mr. Kendi called Justice Amy Coney Barrett a white colonizer
because she adopted two Haitian children. Do you think that is
appropriate to teach our kids?
Secretary Cardona. What I was going to say earlier sir,
is----
Mr. Banks. Mr. Kendi also in his book he stated that
capitalism is essentially racist, so at one point you wanted to
teach our kids Ibram X. Kendi's findings, and his teachings
that capitalism is racist. Do you believe capitalism is
essentially racist?
Secretary Cardona. What I was going to say, sir, is that
this issue of even the grant proposal that we put out while we
don't influence curriculum, has become the target of divisive
culture wars, and we choose to stay above that, and really
focus on supporting our districts.
Mr. Banks. I do not know. Ibram X. Kendi argued that white
people created the AIDS virus. Is that divisive?
Secretary Cardona. Sir, I would ask you to save the
questions for perhaps that author. What I would say is----
Mr. Banks. It was in your original rules proposal. You
wanted to teach our kids what Ibram X. Kendi and the 1619
project. The 1619 project teaches that Abraham Lincoln is a
white supremacist. Is Abraham Lincoln a white supremacist?
Secretary Cardona. Sir, again, you could choose to use your
time to be divisive, I want to work together.
Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, you in a rules proposal you
wanted to teach this garbage to our kids. You eventually
backtracked on it. I was just hoping you would tell us you
backtracked on it because ultimately you came to the conclusion
that it is inappropriate to teach our kids critical race
theory, or some of the garbage that 1619 project, and Ibram X.
Kendi teach, but apparently you do not want to tell us that
today.
Secretary Cardona. Well, you could choose to be divisive
with your time, sir. I want to talk about what we are trying to
do for the American people, and what we could do together if we
focus our efforts on what students and parents need.
Mr. Banks. Mr. Secretary, how about this? Two weeks ago,
U.S. students' civics and history scores were released, and
they were the worst ever in American History. I think one of
the reasons why is because your administration, in a divisive
way, wants to teach this kind of garbage to our kids, but let
me move on.
Indiana, my home State, recently passed a law at the State
legislature that banned biological males from competing against
girls in high school and elementary sports because obviously,
biological males have some physical traits that would give them
an advantage in sports over girls.
The Education Department, your Department, proposed a rule
change that would pull Federal funding from schools that don't
allow biological males to compete against girls in sports. Mr.
Secretary, yes or no, does that mean that your Department would
take away school lunch programs for needy kids because a State
or a school will not allow a boy to compete against a girl in
the sports?
Secretary Cardona. So, going back to the civics if I could.
Mr. Banks. Oh no, I am asking you a question. Do you
support taking away school lunches from kids who go to schools
where boys are not allowed to play on girl's sport's teams?
Secretary Cardona. We are promoting the most rigorous,
intensive academic programming under the Raise the Bar. I would
love to share more details with you.
Mr. Banks. Do you support taking away a school lunch from a
needy kid, a kid who might be the only warm meal they get every
single day because that school will not allow a boy to compete
on a girl's sport's team?
Secretary Cardona. I am proud of the work we are doing.
Mr. Banks. It is a yes or no question, Mr. Secretary.
Secretary Cardona. I am proud of the work we are doing to
make sure that all students----
Mr. Banks. Madam Chair, the answer is yes. This
administration would take away school lunches from kids who
need that lunch, maybe the only warm meal that they might ever
get because of the radical agenda of this administration. I
yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Banks. Ms. Adams, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Adams. Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like enter into
the record three letters, one from UNCF, one from the American
Council of Education, the other from SpelmanCollege that speak
to some of the issues that they are concerned about regarding
the services that they want to continue.
Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
[The letters of Ms. Adams follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Adams. Mr. Secretary, it is good to see you again.
Thank you for coming to speak with us today about the
Department's budget, and I would invite you to come back to my
district again sometime soon. It was a pleasure having you
there to visit historic JCSU and Corona Creek Elementary.
Last year we were proud to secure significant wins for
minority serving institutions, and historically black colleges
and universities in the Federal omnibus, and several million
were allocated. It is a program that was originally included in
the Ignite HBCU Excellence Act, and so I just want to ask you
to just make a comment or two about the importance of investing
in R&D infrastructure programs at our schools.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that. Without question,
investing in research and development at these institutions is
critical for their continued growth, for their ability to have
access to grants and contracts, and also to make up for
historic under investment, and we have seen our HBCUs welcome
and take advantage of those dollars.
We see that they have a plan to engage in better
facilities, to make sure that their students have the same
access to labs that other institutions have, which would then
make them more eligible for, as I said before, contracts. We
are pleased to be able to provide support for that, and we
recognize the importance of doing that to level the playing
field.
Ms. Adams. Thank you. You know, when we look at the even
though the Ignite did not pass as Ignite, there was 50 million
going to HBCUs, and we would certainly continue to hope that
there would be no competition against the HBCUs and MSIs, and
that HBCUs could stand on their own, and not compete with well-
resourced institutions like University of Texas, or the
University of California.
I am curious about whether you have vetted your thinking
with the experts at UNCF regarding this matter?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. We are in regular conversation with
our colleagues, UNCF and others around the important needs, and
the unique needs of HBCUs, and we will continue to work with
them, and our HBCUs, to make sure that their needs are listened
to, and that we are acting in a way that supports their
individual needs.
Ms. Adams. Right. Thank you. Let me, you were talking about
the OPMs, and my colleague was just talking about them. I just
wanted to mention that the online program managers have seen an
explosion in the number of contracts with school districts and
institutions of higher education as a result of the pandemic,
necessitating a move to digital and remote learning.
UNCF, and many HBCUs have expressed the importance of
retaining the bundled services exception, and of course letters
have been sent to you, and these are the ones that we have just
put into the record, so I hope that you would certainly
consider--continue to consider those requests.
Let me ask you about the Department of Education on
February 15 released two announcements. The first focused on
incentive compensation guidance. The second sought to
significantly expand the definition and the reach of third-
party servicer oversight, and of course, again these
organizations that I have mentioned have continued to express
concern about it.
They describe the importance of the current contracting
flexibilities with third party higher education providers, and
they have expressed support in preserving the 2011 guidance,
and so has the Department conducted an analysis of the impact?
Were any changes to this guidance, and what those changes
might have on minorities and underserved populations?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you for that. We recognize
that there are many different perspectives on this, and we want
to make sure we are very thoughtful in considering the
different perspectives, the different scenarios. As I said
earlier, while I recognize that in many cases students are
welcoming online opportunities, we also have to make sure that
the oversight is there so that students are getting a good bang
for their buck, and a good return on investment for their
education.
We are in that process, and we welcome feedback and
comments from different perspectives, and we will definitely
take them into account.
Ms. Adams. Thank you, Mr. Secretary, and thank you for your
great work. Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Dr. Adams. Mr. Good, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Good. Thank you, Madam Chairman, and thank you Mr.
Secretary for being here. Mr. Secretary, 1 year ago before this
Committee I asked you for an update on the implementation of AG
Garland's October 20, 2021, memo to the FBI asking them to
investigate parents who were expressing concern about the
education of their children in government schools, which their
tax dollars are funding, as you know.
This is the same DOJ that arrests and jails peaceful pro-
life protestors, that targets Catholic churches in Richmond,
Virginia, near my district. You stated a year ago when I asked
you about it that your staff may have received information on
implementation of the memo, but you had not personally received
that.
It has now been a year. Have you since received an update
on the implementation of AG Garland's memo directing the FBI to
investigate parents?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. Are you
asking me if I have received an update from----
Mr. Good. Yes. Have you received an update on that memo on
what is the status of the FBI targeting, or investigating
parents who express their concerns at school board meetings?
Secretary Cardona. Have I received an update from my staff,
or from the DOJ?
Mr. Good. Have you--what kind of an update have you
received? What is the status? What is your understanding of the
status of the FBI efforts to investigate parents who show up to
school board meetings?
Secretary Cardona. There is no update of anything regarding
that. There is no involvement in the NSBA letter from the
Department of Education. As a matter of fact, we strongly
support engaging with families and parents, especially at the
Board level.
Mr. Good. You know the subject of that memo in October of
21 was partnership among Federal, State, local, tribal and
territorial law enforcement to address threats against school
administrators and board members, teachers and staff. It begins
with in recent months there has been a disturbing spike in
harassment, intimidation and threats of violence against school
board administrators, board members, teachers and staff who
participate in the vital work of running our Nation's public
schools. Was that true?
Secretary Cardona. Sir, you are referencing a letter of 2
years ago.
Mr. Good. Was that true?
Secretary Cardona. Can you repeat that?
Mr. Good. Are you aware of this big upswing in violence and
intimidation and threats directed at school board members,
teachers and staff? Was that true?
Secretary Cardona. I am focusing now sir, on making sure
schools are getting----
Mr. Good. You cannot verify that, or confirm that being the
Secretary of Education that--that is true?
Secretary Cardona. Right now, sir, in 2023, our focus is in
making sure that our school boards have enough dollars to
provide the funding to their schools.
Mr. Good. Do you support AG Garland's directive targeting
parents who show up and express their concerns at school board
meetings?
Secretary Cardona. Sir, if you have questions for the
Department of Justice, I would ask you----
Mr. Good. You are the Secretary of Education. Do you
support his memo targeting parents who show up at school board
meetings to express their concerns?
Secretary Cardona. I have complete confidence that our
Department of Justice is well positioned to----
Mr. Good. You do not support it apparently. You are not
saying you support that.
Secretary Cardona. I believe that they are well within
their rights to do what they feel is necessary. My focus is
on----
Mr. Good. Do you think we should turn over parents to law
enforcement if they show up to school board meetings to express
concern about what is happening in their kid's schools?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Let me tell you what I feel.
I feel parents are critical partners in the process of
educating their children.
Mr. Good. Do you think parents have primary responsibility
for the education of their kids?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
Mr. Good. Primary authority for the education of their
kids?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
Mr. Good. Okay. When a parent shows up to a school board
meeting to express concerns, do you think that the DOJ and the
FBI ought to respond by targeting those parents?
Secretary Cardona. Sir, I believe parents engagement in
board meetings, in school functions,----
Mr. Good. Okay. You are not saying yes. I presume that you
do not support that. Now, you as Secretary of Education, have
you done anything to help protect the First Amendment rights of
parents who show up and express their concern at school board
meetings without threat, or fear of threat of retaliation from
the government or law enforcement? Have you done anything to
help protect that?
Secretary Cardona. Yes.
Mr. Good. What have you done to help protect that?
Secretary Cardona. We communicate regularly with all
stakeholders, including parents, including board officials,
around the importance of engaging parents at a higher level
than even before the pandemic because I think parents know
better than anyone else what the needs of the child are, and
their engagement is critical.
Mr. Good. Well, I am glad to hear you say that. We
certainly agree that parents know best. This October 4 memo
from two and a half years ago, or a year and a half ago is just
another example of how this DOJ, under AG Garland has become a
politically focused weaponized justice system.
In fact, you see in my office was recently made aware of a
report that staff and associates of Loudoun County school, in
fact they are in the national news all the time aren't they, it
is a classic textbook example of education gone awry here at
the local level.
They have orchestrated a campaign of smear attacks. Their
school board against harassment, intimidation against local
parents. Of course, as you probably know, they posted on
Facebook threats against parents, it was in a Facebook group
saying things like it a school board, you know, lives need to
be ruined beyond repair.
I am so ready to show up with guns, lol. Do you think it is
appropriate for parents for comments like this to be directed
at parents?
Secretary Cardona. Well parents have the right to
communicate and be present at board meetings. I support parents
of communicating their thoughts, and their displeasure with the
board.
Mr. Good. Would you support an investigation into this what
has happened in Loudoun County's schools just recently, would
you support an investigation for that?
Secretary Cardona. We have, the Office for Civil Rights,
that investigates if complaints are made, and we're happy to
followup on any complaints that are alleged.
Mr. Good. Would you support an investigation into this?
Secretary Cardona. If a complaint toward our Office for
Civil Rights was filed, I would.
Mr. Good. Thank you very much. I yield back, Madam
Chairman.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Good. Ms. Jayapal, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Madam Chair. Before I get started
with my comments, I just wanted to express my surprise that my
republican colleague from Indiana, Mr. Banks, was so concerned
about stripping school lunches, and I wanted to remind this
Committee, and anyone that might be watching, that last year 42
republicans voted against providing school lunches for kids,
and Mr. Banks was one of them.
In fact, across the country we have seen republican
legislators in State legislatures trying to strip school
lunches away from kids, so I am just surprised at the concern,
and I hope that perhaps, that means we can have bipartisan--
complete bipartisan support.
We did have bipartisan support last time, but complete
bipartisan support for providing school lunches. Secretary
Cardona, thank you for the work you are doing. Thank you for
being here today. Higher education of all kinds is no longer
affordable for many Americans. Nearly 44 million borrowers have
1.6 trillion dollars in Federal student debt, and middle-income
borrowers owe an average of $43,000.00.
Recognizing this crisis, President Biden's student debt
relief plan will cancel up to $20,000.00 in student debt for
over 40 million borrowers from low-and middle-income families.
Despite these benefits to working families, my republican
colleagues want to stop this transformative plan.
Just last week in this Committee republicans advanced a
disapproval resolution to reverse the payment pause, and block
relief without advancing any higher ed reforms to reduce costs.
Here is a lot of misinformation from my colleagues across the
aisle. I think it is important to correct the record and run
through exactly who would benefit from the administration's
student debt relief plan.
Is it correct that 90 percent of republicans, excuse me, 90
percent of recipients of this plan earning less than $75,000.00
would benefit?
Secretary Cardona. That is true, and some are republican.
Ms. Jayapal. Some are republican, yes. I am going to get to
that actually. What is the income cap on beneficiaries that
would benefit?
Secretary Cardona. $125,000.00 would be the cap.
Ms. Jayapal. No one earning above $125,000.00 is going to
be benefit. Relief is not just among younger working Americans,
right? How would older, retired Americans benefit from debt
relief?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Older folks who have debt would
also benefit from this, so it is not just intended for the
younger folks.
Ms. Jayapal. In fact, older Americans owe a quarter of
Federal student debt, and 7 million borrowers age 50 and up
either owe, or are paying for a loved one. Is that correct?
Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
Ms. Jayapal. We know that one in six Americans living in
rural areas represented by many of my colleagues across the
aisle have fallen into delinquency or default. Tell us about
the rural borrowers who would benefit from the debt relief
plan.
Secretary Cardona. Yes. I have visited rural communities
and spoken to educators and folks who are trying to get back on
their feet after the pandemic in rural communities. I would
argue rural communities were impacted maybe more significantly
due to lack of access of broadband, and other things, so this
would definitely help them get back on their feet as well.
Ms. Jayapal. It is clear that the administration's plan to
cancel student debt would be far reaching, and targeted at
those most in need, and I just find it a stunning hypocrisy
that my colleagues across the aisle might want to stop this
plan, even as we know of at least 12 republican members who
oppose this relief but receive 22 million dollars in total from
PPP forgiveness.
Madam Chair, I would like to enter into the record a list
of republican Members of Congress whose PPP loans were
forgiven, this is from the Center for American Progress Action,
and a list of the annual labor 118th members from the debt
collective, that shows that they paid for college when they
went, and what it costs today, as well as includes those
members who got PPP loans forgiven by the government.
Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
[The information of Ms. Jayapal follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. Now as we approach the end of the
loan payment pause, borrowers are expected to start repayments
in the coming months. How would debt cancellation help these
borrowers before returning to repayment?
Secretary Cardona. It would cancel out debt for many up to
20 million borrowers would no longer have debt and would be
able to get back on their feet. Again, it is important to
remember the purpose of this was to prevent defaults, and make
sure that folks are not worse off now than they were before the
pandemic.
It would definitely address, as I said before, about 20
million would no longer have payment.
Ms. Jayapal. This resolution that republicans advanced out
of Committee that would block critical relief and retroactively
end the payment pause between September and December of last
year, how feasible would it be for servicers to prepare and
prevent borrowers who are expecting the pause to end later this
year from defaulting?
Secretary Cardona. That would increase the likelihood of
default significantly.
Ms. Jayapal. The resolution could also limit your
Department's ability to quickly issue a new pause as the last
administration did twice. How long would it take your
Department to issue a pause in the future emergency if you had
to go through the rulemaking process?
Secretary Cardona. It would significantly delay putting
many borrowers in default. It is important to remember that the
actions here under the Hero's Act, it is consistent with what
was done in the previous administration. We are using the
Hero's authority that I am given, and I use that waiver. There
was no objection the last administration, there should not be
any now.
Ms. Jayapal. That is right. Thank you so much Secretary
Cardona. I really applaud the work you and your Department have
done, and continue to do for all our students across the
country. Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Jayapal. Ms. McClain, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. McClain. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Mr.
Secretary for being here. I am just amazed. I talk, I hear my
mom talking in the back of my brain, she is on that shoulder,
she always said Lisa, if you make a deal, you got to hold up
your end of the bargain.
Lisa, if you have a right to something, you have an
obligation as well. It seems like we want to pick up one end of
the stick, but not the other, so I want to just take a moment
and since it is Mother's Day, and thank my mom for all the
wisdom and guidance that she has given me on rights and
responsibilities, and if you pick up one end of the stick, you
pick up the other, so thanks mom.
Switching gears a minute, in 2021 you had a hearing before
this Committee, and you said you believed all colleges, right,
should be treated equally. Is that still your position?
Secretary Cardona. I do.
Mrs. McClain. Awesome. I want to protect the students and
the taxpayers but give--but the idea that the Department can
act unilaterally to forgive student debt using the borrower
defense program to discharge student debt to me is alarming. It
is concerning, and I hear my mom in the back of my head.
Mr. Secretary, I am trying to get some data before I just
talk about opinions. Do you know, or can you tell me how many
public universities have had claims approved under the loan
discharge program?
Secretary Cardona. Are you saying the borrow defense
actions?
Mrs. McClain. Yes.
Secretary Cardona. Yes. I could have my staff reach out to
you with specifics about that, but the borrower defense----
Mrs. McClain. Wonderful.
Secretary Cardona. Is really protecting students from bad
actors that are some of the----
Mrs. McClain. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think there is bad
actors in public universities, private universities, I mean
you're always going to find bad actors. I wish we were all
perfect, but that is not the world we live in. Do you have, or
can you get me the data on the amount of number of career
colleges that have also had claims approved?
Secretary Cardona. Sure. We would be happy to followup with
you.
Mrs. McClain. Okay. When can I expect that?
Secretary Cardona. Well, we engage in feedback and
communication with the Committee regularly, so we will make
sure we act in good faith to continue that communication to get
the information you----
Mrs. McClain. July 1st do you think we should at least have
it?
Secretary Cardona. I will have my team reach out to your
team very soon to share when you could expect that.
Mrs. McClain. I am sorry. You have no idea when you are
going to be able to get me the data?
Secretary Cardona. Well, you know, we have 45 letters that
were sent to us, and we are working in good faith to make sure
we communicate.
Mrs. McClain. It is really simple. I am just trying to get
the data on how many public universities and private
universities have had claims approved under this loan discharge
program.
Secretary Cardona. I am sure that information could be
gathered, and I will have my team reach out to yours.
Mrs. McClain. I appreciate that. I am kind of looking for a
date.
Secretary Cardona. That is fine. I will have my team reach
out to yours to share with you a date that you can receive that
information. It is important that you have the information.
Mrs. McClain. I would agree too, and with as much money as
we give the Department of Education, and as much as we care
about the students, I would think somebody has this data. I
mean, you want to say August 1st. I mean that is like 3 months,
I would think we could be able to get this data in a 3-month
period of time.
Secretary Cardona. We think it is really important to
communicate with you, and I will have my team reach out to
yours to share a timeline of when we can get that information
to you.
Mrs. McClain. Am I the only one that things that--OK, all
right. Well, thank you for your speedy expedience on this.
Okay. I understand that there is also been a lot of FOIA
requests made by private organizations and institutions trying
to get information on these claims, and have not received them
yet.
Has your Department been processing and responding to these
requests?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
Mrs. McClain. Okay.
Secretary Cardona. The Department of Education is committed
to being very clear and providing information with oversight.
We take that very seriously; we are very responsive.
Mrs. McClain. You just do not take the timeline seriously.
Secretary Cardona. We have provided over 2,400 pages of
documents in this Congress alone. We have responded to 45
letters this Congress alone, and we are going to continue to
take that very seriously because oversight is important.
Mrs. McClain. How many employees do you have in your
department, and what is your budget?
Secretary Cardona. Roughly under 4,000.
Mrs. McClain. Under 4, Okay. Okay. I am going to take that
as a yes, you have been processing and responding to these FOIA
requests?
Secretary Cardona. We take that very seriously.
Mrs. McClain. That is a great answer to a question I did
not ask, so can we just stick with the question. Yes or no. I
mean we learned that early in education. Has your Department
been processing and responding to the FOIA requests? Yes, they
have, no they have not, I will even accept an I don't know.
Secretary Cardona. Yes. We take FOIA requests very
seriously, and we have been responding.
Mrs. McClain. Yes.
Secretary Cardona. We take FOIA requests very seriously and
we have been responding.
Mrs. McClain. What color is your suit?
Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to focus on the budget.
Mrs. McClain. I am just starting to figure out if we can
answer a question, okay.
Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to speak----
Mrs. McClain. All right. Madam Chair, I think this
information is vital, not only for the oversight role, but also
to understand the President's request for a 600 percent
increase in the budget in the student financial aid office. I
hope that you are willing to work with me to get this data from
the Department, and get it in actually a timely fashion for the
American taxpayers.
With that Madam Chair, I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. McClain. I intend to try to
pursue this a little bit myself. Ms. Wild, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Ms. Wild. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and thank you,
Secretary, for being here. I have to applaud your patience and
decorum throughout this hearing. As we sit here, primaries in
my home State of Pennsylvania are taking place, and some of the
most important races in Pennsylvania right now, and across the
country are school board races.
As I sit here having already voted by mail, I am hearing
reports of people at polling places who are harassing voters
with ridiculous claims, many of which are the same that you
have heard talked about here, including you know, claims of
teachers grooming students, and just so many outrageous claims
that really I think do a disservice to public education in
general, to the teaching profession.
I feel as though your job, and the job of our educators has
been made much harder than it should be. Public education is
just so important, and you know, I really believe that you and
the vast majority of our educators are incredibly committed and
dedicated to students, and to the parents.
I sit here as a mother of a 27 and 30-year-old, but I was
involved in their parent teacher organization throughout both
of them being in elementary school, as were many other parents,
mostly mothers. I was a working mother, and made a point of
being involved, and was never in any way impaired from being
involved in my children's education, and was able to weigh in
on sit through classes, whatever needed to be done.
I would suggest that people's time could be used much more
productively if they got involved in their children's schools,
which is very much needed. I am sorry that this has become such
a divisive and hostile issue.
It is not surprising that we are losing scores of teachers
every single year at a time when we obviously need more. I am
going to shift gears because we had the pleasure in
Pennsylvania 7 of having you visit one of our wonderful two
community colleges. We had a great day there, and I am a real
fan of community college education.
What I would like to hear from you is just some discussion
of the advantages to our society at large, not just to
students, but to our society at large of providing affordable,
or preferably free, community college education. Take it away.
Secretary Cardona. You know, it really is just about
opportunities. I really feel, and I have spoken to mayors, to
Governors, college presidents, that recognize community
colleges are really economic drivers for the community. I
remember visiting recently Columbia, Ohio, Columbus State
Community College, and we were on a panel.
The K-12 superintendent was there. The 2-year college
president was there. I think it was the vice president of Intel
was there because they're investing there. The coherence
between their shared goals, and strategy will lead to students
that attend those schools to graduate without debt, with six
figure jobs.
They are going to be contributing to the economy. I think
this is an investment that pays for itself. What we are doing
is ensuring that our K-12 schools have a through line to 2-year
schools, our industry partners, and our 4-year schools, because
as we are talking about some of this invest in America, these
many cases bipartisan plans, they are going to require that we
have many jobs.
We need to make sure that we are preparing the next
generation's workforce, and community colleges are the best
tool to get that done.
Ms. Wild. Well not surprisingly, I completely agree with
you, and I have learned much more about our community colleges
since being in Congress, and what I hear from our employers
throughout Pennsylvania 7 is just how valuable they are to the
employers, that they can quickly pivot and create a new
training program, a new field that is needed by employers, as
we continue to hopefully really get manufacturing back into
this country. I think they are going to prove to be even more
important.
Secretary Cardona. Excellent.
Ms. Wild. I really want to see those doors open to
everybody as much as possible. Thank you for your commitment to
community colleges. I have so much more I would love to discuss
with you, but of course as usual, our time is up. With that I
yield back, thank you.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Wild. The Secretary has
asked for a short break, so I am going to say 5 minutes because
I want to get through as much of this hearing as we possibly
can before we go to vote, so we will take a 5-minute break.
[Recess.]
Chairwoman Foxx. The meeting will come back to order. Ms.
Miller, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Miller. Thank you. Mr. Secretary.
Secretary Cardona. Hello.
Mrs. Miller. Why does the Biden administration believe our
daughters should be forced to compete against biological men in
high school sports?
Secretary Cardona. I believe we have the responsibility to
ensure that all students can engage in all aspects of public
school, including athletics without fear, without having to be
discriminated against, and that is what we are proposing in our
Title IX proposals. What we are saying is you cannot have
blanket bans; however, we do provide--we allow for local input
in the process.
We have taken questions--we have taken comments for the
last month. The comment period ended yesterday, and what we
feel we are doing is making sure that no students are feeling
discriminated against, especially since there has been a public
attack on students----
Mrs. Miller. Well, there are feelings among the girls,
among our daughters, that they are being ignored. Title IX, the
purpose of Title IX was to give our daughters opportunities.
Opportunities to win championships, and earn scholarships, and
by ignoring this and allowing men into our girls' athletics, we
are canceling those opportunities.
Not only that, in some of our girls sports like volleyball,
they have been injured. If men can compete against our girls,
it erases this ability. Anyway, I would like to get on to the
bathrooms. We have got an issue here. Could you tell me does
the Biden administration think it is appropriate to allow
biological males to shower in the girl's bathroom?
To allow schools to have biological men in the girl's
showers and locker rooms?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. I will be happy to answer
that question. I want to make reference to where we agree.
Title IX has been excellent in giving more opportunities for
girls. High School girl athletes have gone from 150,000 in 1972
when Title IX was passed, to over 3 million today, so you are
absolutely right.
With regard to----
Mrs. Miller. They are very discouraged right now. I have
talked to coaches, and athletes. The girls are very discouraged
when they spend years preparing and they are being canceled out
by biological males being allowed to participate but let us get
on to the bathrooms because that is a hot topic right now.
What we want to know is does the Biden administration
believe it is appropriate for schools to allow biological men
in the girl's locker rooms, and in their showers?
Secretary Cardona. The athletics proposed rulemaking
process is about athletic team eligibility. There is no
language in there about bathrooms. Those decisions are made to
local--are made by local boards and local states.
Mrs. Miller. Well sir, you are a policy setter. You put out
guidance, and we have rules that are coming from you, and
actually I brought some with, and I would like to enter them,
Madam Chairwoman, into the record, your own guidance that talks
about bathroom policy. Actually, multiple states have had to
sue you to keep you from enforcing these policies.
You created this mess. It did not just happen, but okay,
let us go on then, can you say unequivocally, that biological
males should never be allowed in girl's locker rooms and
showers? Just answer yes or no, should they be allowed, or
should they not be allowed in there?
Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
[The information of Mrs. Miller follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Secretary Cardona. As I said before, you are asking
questions on something that were not in our proposed rules. I
would love to work with you on how we can take into
consideration.
Mrs. Miller. Absolutely, sir, you all created this mess. It
did not happen out of nowhere. Under the Trump administration
Secretary DeVos, she was able to say unequivocally that girls
should never have to shower in front of a biological male, and
they should not be allowed in their locker rooms, and you have
created it.
It is in your guidance. Multiple states have sued you to
keep you from enforcing this. I would like you to State yes or
no, will you say unequivocally that biological men do not
belong in our girls' locker rooms and showers?
Secretary Cardona. We absolutely, as a father, and as an
educator, absolutely support making sure that boys and girls
use different showers. That is common sense. What I will say
though, is that we have the responsibility also to ensure that
all students feel safe and welcome in their schools.
Mrs. Miller. Yes. Right. We want our girls to feel safe,
and because of your guidance, your rules, the Biden
administration's policies have been pushing this, creating this
mess. We have multiple cases where girls have been assaulted,
where they have been traumatized because there have been
biological men in their locker rooms and showers.
In my State of Illinois, and at Waterloo High School, girls
were forced to use the nurse's office if they did not want to
share a bathroom with men, and then they were disciplined for
not using the same bathroom. You are trying to dodge and
conceal your position because you know parents are horrified
that the Biden administration wants to force our daughters to
compete against biological males in sports, and shower with
them in the bathrooms.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Ms. Miller. Ms. McBath, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. McBath. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Secretary
Cardona, thank you so much for visiting with us once again
today, and as much as republicans want to say otherwise, you
are not trying to break the system.
Your Department really is taking real steps to make it
truly work for working families, and every American who has
been completely left behind by a higher education system that
continues to be pay for play. I am proud to stand by you, and
President Biden in our fight to make sure that our higher
education system is more equitable, and I am disappointed by
efforts in Congress to roll back you know, all the important,
and just really popular steps that have been taken by your
agency.
While every single House republican recently voted to pass
a debt limit bill that reduces the maximum Pell Grant by about
15 percent and cancels the student debt relief that working
families in the State that I represent, Georgia, are counting
on. House democrats, and Secretary Cardona, you are trying to
do just the opposite.
Instead of cutting programs like Pell and attempting to
decrease the maximum award for the first time in over 30 years,
we are trying to expand upon them. Instead of trying to balance
the budget on the backs of those who cannot afford to go to
college, we are taking real steps to even the odds for the
hard-working families across the country.
The Pell Grant covers the lowest percentage of the cost of
a college education in the history of the program, at just 30
percent of the estimated cost of a 4-year institution's cost,
and if it were up to House republicans it would count--it cover
even less. It would count for even less than that. A college
degree, or credentials continue to be the surest path to
economic security for Americans, and we must do more as a
country to make sure that we are ensuring that every student
has the resources necessary to follow that path.
Now there are over 122,000 real people in my district in
Georgia, that quality for some sort of student debt relief
under the President's debt forgiveness program. That is more
than just about any other members in this room, and I do know
that to be a fact because we checked.
These people are not just numbers. These are the nurses
that take care of us when we cannot take care of ourselves, and
the teachers that you trust to teach your kids, and to keep
them safe in school. More than 80,000 people in my district who
applied for these funds, or who were automatically approved,
are counting on them to come through. That is what is really
the harm here. For the last 50 years students whose families
cannot afford to pay for college have relied on Pell to be
there for them. It is alarming to see that every republican on
the House, in the House would go on record supporting cuts to
Pell at a time where in this country, you know, already the
Pell Grant covers the lowest share of the cost of a college
education in the history of the program.
Their proposal would eliminate Pell for thousands of
students in Georgia and cut the maximum award by nearly
$1,000.00 for the 640,000 plus students in my State who still
qualify for Pell. Secretary, please take your time. Please
expound once again for us as much as you possibly can. No trick
questions for you.
Can you share more about the economic significance of Pell,
and the negative impact that these cuts would have on working
families?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you for that. You know Pell
helps level the playing field for students, so that their
participation in higher education is based on their ability,
not on their wealth. It opens the doors to students, many times
first generation college students, to not only change their
life's trajectory, but also the trajectory of their own
children.
As I said earlier, it allows us to really maximize on the
talent that we have in our schools. Many times, students feel
like they are not going to even consider college. I have had
experiences where I talked to parents who as young as
elementary school said that their children cannot go to college
because they cannot afford it, and they fear the costs.
Pell allows students to have access to higher education, to
higher earning potential. We know college graduates make on
average a million dollars more over the course of their life,
than students who graduate high school and do not go on to. We
are trying to open up access to higher education, whether that
is through universal community college, which we know is an
economic driver for communities.
Four-year colleges, which we know provides students
pathways to economic stability. We are trying to open doors.
Pell does that. Especially because it focuses on students who
are most financially in need.
Mrs. McBath. Thank you, and I yield.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Steel, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Steel. Thank you, Chairwoman Foxx, for hosting this
hearing, and thank you Secretary Cardona for participating
today. For a long time, the CCP has spent millions of dollars
and also our tax money went in backing Confucius Institutes to
promote the CCP propaganda, and they pressure universities to
censure any criticism of the Chinese government.
The CCP has been infiltrated in our universities. We must
ensure the CCP cannot gain access to sensitive research
happening on our campuses. In many cases research is funded by
the Federal Government. I have legislation to identify and
remove hostile actors that are deemed a foreign intelligence
threat to higher education and set the reporting gift threshold
from Section 117 to $5,000.00 or lower, so that we may be aware
of foreign investments in our universities.
Mr. Secretary, the Education Department recently published
a notice seeking comment on whether Section 117 institution
reporting is necessary to proper functions of the Department,
and whether the information will be processed and used in a
timely manner.
I understand that reporting foreign gift donations is not
aa popular topic for institutions, but if information on
foreign funding is not reported to the Department, apart from
releasing a new web page that serves as a repository for old
guidance, and increase for Section 117, how do--we cannot adopt
to understand how our foreign adversaries are asserting their
influence on college campuses? How does the Biden
administration propose to protect our sensitive research from
our greatest adversaries?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question,
Congresswoman Steel. I agree with you wholeheartedly that this
is an area of importance, and that we must make sure we protect
the intellectual property of the United States and our campuses
from foreign threats, and we take those very seriously. We have
improved the system for transparency and accountability under
Section 117, and we are working really hard to ensure
compliance of reporting, which has been in the books for 20
years but has not really been kept up.
We are proud that we have 34,000 filings of public gifts in
the last 2 years, which is we are on track to be the
administration with the most filings, and this is all in part
to demonstrate our--the importance we place on protecting
American interests and reducing potential foreign influence on
our college campuses.
Mrs. Steel. Seems like CCPs beliefs are stealing, and it is
faster and cheaper when they are actually working on their own
technology, especially our universities and they are inside of
our universities and try to steal that research, so it is
really important. Mr. Secretary, I am sure you would agree that
it is essential to visit schools in person to learn firsthand
how they are doing and what needs they have.
You have also said on many occasions that you support all
high quality schools, including public charter schools. It is
very important in Orange County, and they are very successful.
To my knowledge, and please correct me if I am wrong, you have
never visited a charter school while Secretary of Education,
even with half of the students in D.C. attending charter
schools. Will you commit to visiting charter schools before the
end of this year, especially after COVID? This is really
important to see that these kids are in school and they are
learning totally different than regular public schools, and it
is really, really amazing that charter schools are doing much
better than any other schools.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congresswoman Steel. I agree,
charter schools do provide an option for students and parents.
Sometimes they focus on specific learning programs or specific
sciences. Public charter schools are definitely examples of
schools that are tailored toward meeting specific needs that
parents are seeking. I do commit to visiting a charter school.
Throughout my career as an educator, not only as Secretary but
previously, I have seen charter schools, public charter schools
serve the public and meet the needs of families.
There is support for them, but also, I do commit if I had
not visited. I have visited over hundreds of schools. If I have
not visited one, I do commit to visiting a charter school.
Mrs. Steel. Please come visit Orange County charter
schools, that they are very successful. My time is up. I yield
back.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Thank you, Congresswoman Steel.
Congresswoman Hayes, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Hayes. Thank you. Thank you, Secretary Cardona for
being here today, and for your seriousness at focusing on the
issues at hand. I will say that is a very nice blue suit that
you are wearing. I was also happy to hear today in Committee
that Mr. Banks, like myself, also cares about making sure that
children have warm meals when they go to school. It is
something that is deeply personal to me, and an issue that I am
committed to fighting for in this Congress, so looking forward
to some bipartisan support on this issue.
I would like to switch gears today and focus my questioning
on early childhood education. The Head Start program is one of
the greatest anti-poverty initiatives in American history. Six
decades after its founding, Head Start has served 38 million
children, including me. Head Start participants are 12 percent
less likely to live in poverty as adults, and 29 percent less
likely to receive Public Assistance.
Connecticut has 86 Head Start and Early Head Start Centers
serving approximately 5,000 children. Unfortunately, in 2019
about 100,000 children lived in poverty in Connecticut, which
means that around 95,000 children did not receive access to
early math and reading readiness or immunizations, dental and
medical care that Head Start provides.
Nationally, only 10 percent of eligible children and their
families have access to Head Start programs. In the fiscal 2024
budget, President Biden allocated $500 million for a
demonstration program in the Department of Education to create
or expand free high-quality preschool in schools or community-
based settings, including programs like Head Start, for
children eligible to attend Title I schools.
In the State of the Union, I was especially pleased to hear
President Biden make the case for universal pre-K and raises in
teacher's pay. He said, and I quote, ``The way to put America
back on top and create the best-educated workforce is to make
it so preschool for three and 4 year-olds is universal.'' Dr.
Cardona, I know you understand that the earlier children attend
school, the better their academic outcomes are, and the quicker
parents can return to the workforce.
Can you tell us about what policy the Department is putting
forth to improve access to pre-K for kids?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely. Thank you for that and, you
know, as teachers that we are, we recognize and we saw in our
classrooms the students who had access to it and students who
did not, and oftentimes the students who did not required some
level of intervention to catch up. We, as you mentioned, have
in our budget a proposal for close to half a billion dollars to
expand preschool and early childhood experiences, and at the
Department recognize that it is incumbent upon us to work with
HHS to make sure that we are connecting the dots, and that we
are modeling what we want to see in our states.
Early childhood education is critical, especially when it
is connected to the K-12 system, so that the experience that
pre-kindergarten students have, whether that is run through HHS
and their programs or the programs that are run in the
community, are connected to the kindergarten program, so the
students and educators are--the educators are communicating, so
that the students' experience is a positive one.
We are big on the science of how children learn best. We
know the science around how children earn best, play-based
activities where they are using oral language. I can continue
but I am sure you have other questions. It is an area of
passion of mine.
Mrs. Hayes. Well no, but I would like to give you some time
to address the outlandish statement that was made on this
Committee today. Quote, ``If me and my home boys decided to
become girls and expose ourselves to your daughter, how would
you feel about that?'' I just want to say it for the record
that no Democrat, no functioning adult wants that, and you, Dr.
Cardona, as a public school teacher, a public school
administrator, as the parent of public school children, can you
tell us what policies the Department is putting forth to
support all students who attend our schools?
Secretary Cardona. Right. Well, you know, some of those
comments, I think, are doing exactly what I warned us. We
should be focusing on what the American people are asking us
for. They are not asking for divisive comments. They are asking
us to work together. Student safety is of primary importance.
Making sure that students are accepted in schools and
acknowledged for who they are is critically important.
In this country, we are seeing a lot of attacks on specific
students, especially students who have already experienced the
most need for mental health support. We need to stand up for
all students, and make sure that all students have a place in
our schools.
Mrs. Hayes. Thank you, Dr. Cardona, and I appreciate you
bringing forth data that talked about the rates of student
suicide, because I have been one of those teachers on the
receiving end of just heartbreaking stories when students are
breaking down and saying that they just do not know what to do
next. Many teachers around this country are the ones who pull
those students back. Again, thank you for your time. I yield
back.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Bean, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Bean. A very good afternoon. Thank you very much, Madam
Chair. Good afternoon, E&W Committee and Mr. Secretary,
welcome. We are glad to have you here.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Mr. Bean. You said a couple of things that I am with you
on. One is we need to raise the bar in education and two, you
said that parents know their kids best. A couple of weeks ago,
at the very same table that you are sitting there now, we heard
from education experts and actual students that said the
biggest thing that we can do to raise the bar and empower
parents and kids is give school choice, give choice to parents
to determine what's best for their kids.
We heard some dramatic minority students who have overcome
just significant obstacles in life, and then there is the
Opportunity Scholarship Program right here in D.C. that is just
turning in some great numbers. 93 percent of kids in that
program graduate from high school. 90 percent go on to college.
Its 94 percent are minority, and the audience is about $25,000
a year. What are we doing to promote choice?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Thank you, Congressman Bean. You
know I, as a parent, do feel that I should have decisions to
make about my child's education. I am a student--when I was in
high school, I chose a technical high school, so I had choice.
I am a product of having choice. I am in favor of that, and I
certainly feel that parents should be able to make decisions
about their children.
Mr. Bean. Does your budget reflect choice? Are we given and
encouraging choice of charter schools and private schools?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. We have not reduced funding for
public charter schools, and we recognize that those are
parents' choice. What I am not in favor of, sir, is using
dollars that are intended to elevate or raise the bar as we
call it on public school programming, so that the funding goes
to private school vouchers. What ends up happening is we are
already having a teacher shortage. If you start taking dollars
away from the local public school, those schools are going to
be worse.
Mr. Bean. How long is too long? We have heard of our civics
scores are the worse ever. We have heard that learning loss now
is permeating the land, except for the free State of Florida,
which we are doing really well and because we opened schools a
lot faster than other states. I think at a school district in
Baltimore has zero students proficient in reading and math
scores.
Secretary Cardona. I believe your microphone is off sir. I
believe your microphone is off.
Mr. Bean. Okay. I think about the district in Baltimore
that has zero students proficient. How long should a student
have to wait before help? How long is it okay to be stuck in a
failing school?
Secretary Cardona. I agree with you. The sense of urgency
that I have as Secretary of Education could be illustrated by
some of the strategies we have taken, to make sure that the
dollars are being spent to reopen schools.
Mr. Bean. It is a shame. The rich people have already left.
The minority students, the people without means are the ones
struggling in those schools. We need to offer them hope. You
said we treated all colleges the same, all colleges the same.
Proprietary schools right now are taking it on the chin. You
and the administration have made it very difficult for
proprietary colleges to continue their mission of bringing
hope, you know.
They are the non-traditional, non-traditional. They are
older students, non-traditional college students. For many
times, this single parent mom who wants to better herself can
go there. Right now, they are under attack and when I meet with
them, they say many of them will be closing soon. Why are you
at war with proprietary colleges?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. I do not
believe we are at war. I think what we are trying to do is fix
a broken system. 90 percent of the borrower defense claims were
against for-profit institutions that were taking advantage of
students. While I recognize they have an important role, we
want to make sure that we are protecting students before we are
protecting----
Mr. Bean. What about the good ones? You are targeting all
of them. There are some great colleges out there that are
letting people become dental hygienists. We need our teeth
cleaned.
Secretary Cardona. Right, right.
Mr. Bean. They are providing a valuable service. How are
you discerning between good ones and there is somebody that is
a bad one.
Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that and I agree with
you. We are in support of colleges that are proprietary, that
are doing and have a good track record.
Mr. Bean. We are going to close them if we do not change
our ways and ease up on--because that net you are casting is
all of them right now. What are we going to cut? We are--you
may not know, but 32 trillion in debt. You have not proposed a
cutting thing. What would you--certainly this is a--education
really is a state's responsibility. What would you cut? What
can we do without or trim back?
Secretary Cardona. Yes, yes, thank you for that. I do, as I
said earlier, investing in education to me is investing in our
country's economic prosperity.
Mr. Bean. There is nothing you would cut though? What about
the unspent COVID funds? We still have--you have actually made
it easier to not spend them and extend out. I am going to yield
back my time, but we need to recognize that we work together.
Secretary Cardona. I would love to answer that question.
Mr. Bean. I will go with you at a school. Come to northeast
Florida. I will walk some charter schools with you too, Madam
Secretary. I yield back, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Bean. Ms. Stevens, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Stevens. Thank you, Madam, Chair, and thank you to our
amazing and esteemed Secretary for your testimony and your time
today, and your great leadership of our Department of
Education. It is a real delight to have you in the House of
Representatives today, as we are reviewing Fiscal Year 2024
budget priorities and education being at the top of the list.
Many of us on this Committee are fully in support of
funding IDEA and making sure that students of all abilities get
the education they deserve, and that is why we know our public
schools are so important in that charge because frankly, most
of the time that is where students who are receiving IEPs go.
For the families that--particularly in my district in Oakland
County, Michigan, we see a very successful model with special
education in not burdening these families with additional cost.
Mr. Secretary, you are well aware of the impact on COVID-19
and students, and I do not think there is anyone in the cabinet
who has more of a bird's eye view on that subject than you. You
may remember that we had a hearing on this subject,
particularly examining how the impacts of COVID-19 hit and hurt
our students who have learning disabilities.
In Oakland County, we have Dr. Wanda Cook-Robinson, who is
overseeing our IEPs for 22,000 students, doing a great job at
that. Interested to hear how the Department is working to
ensure that schools are providing students with disabilities
the services and supports they need to get them back on track,
both academically and with regard to the goals outlined in
their IEP.
Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that, and you are
absolutely correct. Students with disabilities have--were
impacted significantly during the pandemic. I would argue
probably the group of students that has--was impacted the most.
I remember getting stories from parents and students, hoping
that they can get back into the classroom and making sure that
they would get the support that they missed out on during the
pandemic.
I received letters of parents, from parents who told me
that your children regressed because the IEP was not able to be
met. We have been, we have been very specific with regard to
guidance for students with disabilities, and we have gone as
far as having cases investigated by our Office for Civil
Rights, to ensure that districts followup on their legal
responsibility.
Ms. Stevens. Yes.
Secretary Cardona. We have taken that very seriously. For
the first time ever, the Department of Education put out
guidance on providing mental health supports for students. I
think it was the summer of 21--to make sure that they had
access to what tools were available with the American Rescue
Plan dollars. We know that that is critically important for
students to be successful.
Ms. Stevens. Yes, that is absolutely remarkable, and
certainly we know that fully funding IDEA, stop robbing Peter
to pay Paul and help our school district succeed in a wide
range of disabilities, physical and cognitive that our students
face, and we certainly appreciate you including mental health.
We also know that students benefit from having diverse
teachers, Mr. Secretary. Just 20 percent of our Nation's
teachers identify as people of color, compared with half of all
K through 12 students.
Legislation like the RETAIN Act which I introduced with
Congressman Brad Schneider last week would address the
nationwide shortages of teachers that disproportionately impact
our students coming from lower income households, and also
students of color. How is the Department, Mr. Secretary,
working to support states and school districts in strengthening
and diversifying their educator workforce, and what is the
Department doing to support State and district efforts to
address the teacher shortage in general that was here before
the pandemic?
Secretary Cardona. Exactly, yes. Thank you for that
question. Really quickly on IDEA, in 1975 Congress set out to
pay for 40 percent, made a commitment of 40 percent of IDEA
dollars to pay for special education.
Ms. Stevens. We are about to hit 50 years on that puppy.
Secretary Cardona. We are at 12.1 percent in fiscal year
?23. It is important to contextualize that. With regard to
diversity and professional staff, this is something that we
take very seriously. We created for the first time the Augusta
Hawkins grant, that is intended to provide pathways for diverse
candidates into the teaching profession, to make sure that our
teaching profession reflects the diversity of our country as
well.
We are focusing on creating apprenticeship programs. When
we started as an administration, only two states had
apprenticeship programs for teachers. We are up to about 16,
which means that student teachers would get paid now, and we
need to really change that. The goal is to get 50 states.
Ms. Stevens. Pay the student teachers.
Secretary Cardona. Pay the student teachers. If you want to
have diversity in the teaching ranks, make the pathways easier
to get into it.
Ms. Stevens. Thank you, and with that I yield back.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Burlison, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr.
Secretary, for joining us today. We have heard previously from
experts this year about the--about their concerns of the impact
that foreign entities, especially China have on our higher ed
institutions. Do you share those concerns?
Secretary Cardona. I do, I do. I take foreign threats very
seriously, and I think it is really important that we protect
the intellectual property of our universities.
Mr. Burlison. Previously, the previous administration, not
Presidential administration but your Department and your agency
would release information on and request that information from
universities on the foreign donors, their names, their
information, the country of origin, and your administration is
not making that list, all of this, the same information public.
Why is that?
Secretary Cardona. As I said before, we take foreign
threats very seriously. We have improved our process and have
provided at least 34,000 filings that were made public. We are
on track to have the most filings made public than any other
administration, and it was the last administration actually
that changed the process to not share names. We are following
the same process that they left us.
Mr. Burlison. Okay. Madam Chair, I want to submit for the
record a letter to Secretary Cardona from Lance Gooden.
Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
[The letter follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Burlison. On the letter dated January 19th of 2023, you
received a letter from Representative Gooden. Do you care to
comment about, or did you respond to that letter?
Secretary Cardona. Our team works very closely with members
of the Hill in good faith, and we are going to continue to have
ongoing engagement with them and be responsive to the letter.
Mr. Burlison. In his letter, he outlines concerns that he
has about your office's, or about the changes in your agency to
no longer include information on the foreign gifts and
contracts that are being sent to our schools, specifically
concerns related to the University of Pennsylvania which has a
connection to Penn Biden Center. They received from the year
2021 to 2022 $51 million. This is outlined in this letter. This
is the same location that we know had mismanagement of
classified documents. He is requesting an investigation by your
Department into this. What was your response?
Secretary Cardona. Well as I said before, we are going to
continue to be responsive and act in good faith to share
information. I must remind you that it was the last
administration that did not feel it warranted an investigation
on what you are referring to.
Mr. Burlison. Do you--do you have any concerns? Do you
believe that an investigation is warranted?
Secretary Cardona. We have--we take the foreign threat very
seriously, and we are going to continue to respond to letters,
and I am confident that the process that we have in place is
creating greater transparency around this information, and
making sure that people know that we are holding them
accountable for compliance as well.
Mr. Burlison. My next question has to do with the School
Board Association letter that was dated 2021 to President
Biden. That letter that was submitted specifically stated--that
group later issued an apology for that letter. When it was
during that time, were you aware before they drafted that
letter? Were you aware or did you work with the School Board
Association?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely not. We had nothing to do
with the letter that they wrote.
Mr. Burlison. Okay. Well, that is surprising, because the
people from the School Board Association said that you--they
were writing the letter given direction from the White House as
per a request from Secretary Cardona.
Secretary Cardona. Yes. I will repeat. We had nothing to do
with that letter, and we stand by that.
Mr. Burlison. Okay. According to--so the NSBA apologized
and this, if I did not go into this, this is the letter where
they claimed that parents, they associated parents who
testified at school board meetings as terrorists. They have
since apologized. Has your administration apologized, because
after they issued the letter, your administration's initial
response was supportive of the letter.
Secretary Cardona. I do not believe that to be accurate.
No. 1, I think our position has been the same from Day 1.
Parents belong in the educational process, and we need to do
more to engage parents.
Mr. Burlison. Okay. You deny, or you refute, or you do not
agree with the content of the letter, in regard to parents
being terrorists?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely not.
Mr. Burlison. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Leger Fernandez, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Madam Chair and
thank you so much, Secretary Cardona for being here and
bringing your perspective that is so unique of having taught in
the classroom and taught in the kind of classrooms that we are
talking about now. Sadly, yesterday an 18 year-old used an
assault rifle to kill three elders and ruined two officers in
Farmington, New Mexico. Every school in the city locked down
including an elementary school that was right near the
shootings.
Thankfully, none of the victims were children. However, as
you know in the last 10 years, there have been 660 shootings at
K through 12 schools, 267 people have died. So many more have
been traumatized. I believe it is heartbreaking and
irresponsible that the majority of Republicans refuse to take
action on an assault weapons ban. Secretary Cardona, do you
agree that banning assault weapons would decrease the number
and severity of school shootings in America?
Secretary Cardona. I do.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. I also believe, thank you very much,
and thank you for standing with our children. It is ridiculous
that children have to be afraid of going to school, that their
parents to have live in fear every time they drop their
children off, and that what happened in Farmington that you are
no longer safe just driving down the street of your
neighborhood.
Moving on to another matter about financial fitness, I
think we need to encourage our young Americans, our students,
to give them financial fitness. Not literary because we all
know how to read, but financial fitness, make them strong
enough to move about in our world. I have the Financial Fitness
Act, which would direct the Department of Education to
establish a personal finance education portal available to the
public, including both the students and their parents to
provide the kind of information about creating that fitness.
Would you commit? The bill almost made it through the Senate
last year, we were that close. I think you could establish this
kind of online portal now. Would you commit to working with us
to do that?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely would, and love to hear more
about it and hear more about that. I think in our raise the bar
strategy, we are really thinking about ways to improve
programming in our schools and make sure that personal fitness
or literacy, financial literacy is something that students are.
Is it okay if I can share a little bit about the previous
question?
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Please do.
Secretary Cardona. You know, I was a school principal. I
think sometimes we lose sight of the emotion that happens when
you are in a school, even if it is a school that is not
impacted directly by the shooting. I was a school principal
when the Sandy Hook massacre happened. I was about 40 minutes
away, and I remember the impact that that had not only on
myself, the students, the parents, the teachers.
We should not have to worry about safety of six and 7 year-
olds when they are learning how to read. We have gotten--we
have become a bit desensitized as a country. There is no one
magic answer to this, but we need to come together around
student safety. If we cannot come together around student
safety, then I struggle, I struggle to think that we are going
to have to continue this fight. Our students deserve to be
safe, and as a parent and an educator, this is an area that I
really think we need to come together on.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. I do believe that we should come
together. I have had some very encouraging conversations with
those in the community. This 18 year-old was supposed to
graduate today. He will not. The law enforcement did a great
job of responding and minimizing the damage. It is, it is
extremely heartbreaking. Going back to things that are less
heartbreaking but more about promise and opportunity, because
that is our job, is to create possibility for students to
remove obstacles.
We do not have disadvantaged students. We have students who
have aspirations, and we need to help them get there, right? I
am introducing the America's College Promise Act, which would
provide tuition-free college for students at community
colleges, and especially support low-income students who
transfer to TCUs, HBCUs, MSIs, you know, Hispanic-serving
institutions. That is what we have. In New Mexico, almost every
single one of our higher education entities is minority-serving
institutions.
Could you please discuss the need for 2 years of pre-
community college, what that would mean to students and to
their families?
Secretary Cardona. Sure. I recognize the time is creeping
up here, but it is economic mobility for the student, for their
families, for their community, for their State. Education and
getting the skills that they need to have higher-paying jobs
and contribute to the economy is something that we should all
want. To me, universal community college is an investment in
our local economy and in our Nation's economy.
Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you very much Secretary, and I
do share everyone's concern about McCarthy's Default in America
Act, and the devastating cuts it would mean to education
funding. I have run out of time, so I yield back Madam
Chairman, Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. Mr. Kiley, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Kiley. Secretary Cardona, you supported student vaccine
mandates for COVID. Here is an article from Politico, September
23d, 2021, ``Education Secretary Backs Mandatory School COVID-
19 Vaccines.'' You are quoted in that article saying not only
do I support it, but I am encouraging states to come up with a
plan to make sure it happens.'' You also said, ``Governors
should work with their school officials and with their health
officials to roll out requirements.''
Now, you made these statements in your capacity as
Secretary of Education. Is it fair to say that this was the
policy of the Biden administration, was student vaccine
mandates?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. At the time of the article that you
are referencing, we were--we had the majority of our schools
closed for full-time instruction. Our students were suffering,
and it was the recommendation of our health experts to provide
vaccination----
Mr. Kiley. Yes, this was the policy of the Biden
administration, was to favor student vaccine mandates?
Secretary Cardona. It was a recommendation of our health
officials, not only at the Federal level but at the State and
local level also to--in local districts to have students
vaccinated----
Mr. Kiley. I will take that as a yes. It was administration
policy to favor student vaccine mandates, since you have not
denied----
Secretary Cardona. There was not a Federal mandate on
student vaccines.
Mr. Kiley. Correct, but you encouraged states to adopt
them?
Secretary Cardona. I encouraged reopening schools and----
Mr. Kiley. You encouraged states to adopt student vaccine
mandates, yes or no?
Secretary Cardona. Could you repeat the question?
Mr. Kiley. Did you encourage states to adopt student
vaccine mandates----
Secretary Cardona. I did not encourage states to adopt
student vaccine mandates. Where states----
Mr. Kiley. Excuse me, sir. You said right here, ``Not only
do I support it, but I'm encouraging states to come up with a
plan to make sure it happens.'' The title of the article is
``Education Secretary Backs Mandatory School COVID-19
Mandates.''
Secretary Cardona. Sir, you could read the article, or you
could talk to the person that was in that position then. I
supported schools reopening and in local districts where they
were having the vaccine mandates, I supported the decision made
by lawful----
Mr. Kiley. I guess Politico misquoted you? Is there any--do
you believe--did any states adopt that position by the way? Did
any states adopt student vaccine mandates and implement them?
Secretary Cardona. To my knowledge, no states adopted that.
Mr. Kiley. It seems like kind of a fringe position that you
offered if not a single State agreed with it? Another fringe
position that you adopted was favoring mask mandates for young
children and making them wear masks throughout the school day.
This was outside the international norm. Most countries in
Europe did not do that, yet you insisted that this was backed
by science.
Mr. Secretary, did you ever fabricate or mischaracterize
scientific evidence in order to support student mask mandates?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely not. What I did was lead the
country to go from 46 percent school reopened to 98 percent.
Mr. Kiley. We will get to that in a moment. Here is an
article from the National Review, ``Researcher Corrects
Secretary of Education After He Cites Her Study to Justify
School Mask Mandates.'' If you want to go the primary source,
here is a tweet from you. This is from September 27th, 2021. It
says, ``A Wisconsin study found that schools that required
masking had a 37 percent lower incidence of COVID-19.''
There is comment from Dr. Tracy Hoeg who says ``Secretary
Cardona, I was the senior author of this study. Our study is
not able to give any information about the role masks played in
the observed low in school transmission rate.'' So I will ask
you again, Mr. Secretary, did you ever fabricate or
mischaracterize scientific evidence in order to justify student
mask mandates?
Secretary Cardona. No. What I supported were common sense
mitigation strategies that protected students, our educators
and families as we reopened school in the height of a pandemic,
and we were able to successfully do that.
Mr. Kiley. Well, what you also did was call out Governors
who did not want to have mask mandates. This is from the
Washington Post. ``Education Secretary Cardona Criticizes the
Republican Governors for Banning Mask Mandates.'' Why do you
feel like it was necessary to criticize these Governors for
their decisions?
Secretary Cardona. I thought it was important to
communicate the importance of superintendents and health
officials making the decisions, not State Governors preventing
health experts from having their voice heard.
Mr. Kiley. Let us then move onto the topic of school
reopenings. The states that you decided to criticize, this is a
chart of in-person instruction index for the 2021 school year
from Burbio. The states you chose to criticize, Florida is near
the best, nearly 100 percent. Texas is in eighth place. The
bottom five states were Hawaii, Washington, Maryland, Oregon
and California. Did you ever criticize the Governors of those
states for refusing to open schools?
Secretary Cardona. Can you tell me what that chart is? I am
not sure----
Mr. Kiley. It is from Burbio. It has been widely cited in
the media.
Secretary Cardona. What does the top say though? The font
is very small.
Mr. Kiley. Average in-person instruction index, how much
were schools opened.
Secretary Cardona. Okay, and what is your question?
Mr. Kiley. Did you ever criticize the Governors at the
right end of these charts for not opening these schools?
Secretary Cardona. What are the right----
Mr. Kiley. California, Oregon, Maryland, Washington,
Hawaii.
Secretary Cardona. I provided guidance, regardless of
whether the Governors were Republican or Democrat, on reopening
schools.
Mr. Kiley. Yes, but you specifically criticized the
Governors of Florida and Texas for not wanting to force masks
on young children. Did you in the same way criticize the
Governor of California for not opening schools?
Secretary Cardona. I was very critical of Governors firing
superintendents whose job it was to protect students and
families.
Mr. Kiley. Did you criticize Governor Newsome for not
opening schools?
Secretary Cardona. Again, I was very critical of Governors
who were overstepping and removing----
Mr. Kiley. I did not hear a yes. I am sorry. We have been
listening to evade yes or no answers all day. The reality is, I
would encourage you to sort of look at what happened in our
State of California. Parents were absolutely beside themselves
as schools were functioning just fine in other states. Our
politicians refused to open them, and you never spoke out on
the side of those parents and criticized those politicians.
This was the most consequential policy failure in modern
U.S. history, and I am afraid to say it Mr. Secretary, that you
and this administration were complicit. I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Kiley. Ms. Manning, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Manning. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Mr.
Secretary, for being with us today, and thank you for your
service to our country. Secretary Cardona, the President's
budget includes an additional $578 million to invest in
increasing mental health providers to schools. We know that
youth mental health is currently in crisis. That is why this
week I am reintroducing my Improving Mental Health and Wellness
in Schools Act.
This is a bipartisan bill that would add mental health
education to existing guidelines for local school wellness
policies, and to increase resources for mental health providers
in our schools. How do you plan to allocate funds for
increasing providers in schools, and what is being done to
increase counselor to student ratios in our schools?
Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you. That is a critically
important topic. The mental health needs of our students are
great. When I talk to educators, when I talk to parents and
students, that is the primary request, that they have enough
supports to make sure their students are well.
We are working, as I said earlier, we provided guidance in
2021 around how to access it. We are providing pathways to
certifications there. We are working with higher education
institutions to make sure that they're meeting the demand. We
are strongly encouraging and lifting up models of K-12
institutions working with community-based health centers, to
make sure that it takes like the whole community approach.
We have partnerships that we are supporting with these
dollars, with schools and hospitals that provide mental health
supports. It is also important for us to take a step back and
look at mental health support as a continuum. We are also
supporting local Boys and Girls Clubs that are providing after-
school programming for students to be in a safe place, with
mentors and giving them the support that they need to be
successful in school.
We are going from everything from proactive Tier 1 supports
in schools, additional school counselors and school social
workers, and external community partners that provide mental
health supports.
Ms. Manning. Thank you. One of the things that my bill
would do by introducing mental health wellness into schools,
would be to try to normalize the opportunity for students to
seek mental health assistance when they are having mental
health issues, to try to remove the stigma around mental health
care. Under the Republicans' proposal to cut fiscal year24
discretionary spending back to the Fiscal Year 22 enacted
level, would we still have funding available for the mental
health programs you have described?
Secretary Cardona. We would see a significant decrease in
funding for mental health supports if a cut equivalent to 2022
funding levels were implemented. It would result in $50 million
in cuts for mental health supports alone. 40 new grants would
be cut and the support for 300 existing grants would also be
cut.
Ms. Manning. We would see a significant decline in funding
for mental health services, even though we know we are having a
mental health crisis among school-aged children in our country.
I would like to move to a different topic. The President's
budget also includes $178 million for the Department of
Education's Office of Civil Rights, a 27 percent increase from
Fiscal Year ?23. By contrast, the Republicans' budget proposal
would slash funds for OCR at a time is receiving record numbers
of complaints of civil rights violations in schools, and
according to the ADL, antisemitic incidents on college campuses
increased by 41 percent from 2021 to 2022.
I recently spoke with Assistant Secretary Catherine Lhamon
about the backlog of civil rights complaints and the need for
more staff at OCR to process and investigate these kinds of
claims. How will the resources that are at the increase in the
budget be used to reduce the backlog of cases, and can you
commit that they will be used to investigate all of the Title
IV complaints, including antisemitic incidents?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that. Absolutely. The
Office for Civil Rights, as you mentioned, has seen an increase
in the number of investigation requests. In 2019, they had
about 10,000 cases. Last year, they had over 19,000 cases. They
went from----
Ms. Manning. 19,000 cases?
Secretary Cardona. 19,000 complaints last year. The funding
would ultimately result in additional staff to investigate
these cases. We recognize cases. Disability discrimination is
on the rise, as well as antisemitism. We would be more
responsive and look into those cases much quicker.
Ms. Manning. Can you assure us that the Biden
administration's commitment would include protecting all
students, including Jewish and pro-Israel students?
Secretary Cardona. Yes, we would definitely be committed to
that.
Ms. Manning. Thank you. My time has expired, I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Moran, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Moran. Thank you, Madam Chair. Secretary Cardona, my
name is Nathaniel Moran. I am from northeast Texas. I wanted to
talk with you first about this quote you mentioned to
Representative Burlison just a few minutes ago. When I walked
in, I heard you say to him ``We need to do more to engage
parents.'' Did I hear you correctly when you said that?
Secretary Cardona. Yes.
Mr. Moran. Okay. Did you support the language in the
recently passed Parents Bill of Rights, that sought to codify
this need to do more to engage parents?
Secretary Cardona. I believe in parental engagement. I
believe that that bill would create a level of oversight where
the Federal Government is dictating what local boards can or
cannot do, so I do not think that is necessary.
Mr. Moran. Is it your position that really local boards are
the ones that know best for their school district, and should
make those decisions on the local level to the extent that it
is possible?
Secretary Cardona. I do believe that, yes.
Mr. Moran. When you were in the classroom, you taught
fourth grade at Hanover Elementary School. Is that true?
Secretary Cardona. No. I taught fourth grade at Israel
Putnam Elementary School. I was a school principal at Hanover
Elementary School.
Mr. Moran. Did I read correctly that you were one of the
youngest or the youngest principal when you were the principal
at Hanover?
Secretary Cardona. I was back then, yes.
Mr. Moran. In your time in the classroom in fourth grade, I
presume that you really cared deeply about your students. You
engaged your students, you got to know each one of them
individually; is that correct?
Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
Mr. Moran. You found out pretty quickly that every one of
them has different needs, and aside from parents, you probably
knew best how to educate those kids in your fourth grade class;
is that accurate?
Secretary Cardona. It is accurate.
Mr. Moran. Then when you became a principal at Hanover, I
presume that's about the same truth for your school. You knew
your school better than anybody else; is that correct?
Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
Mr. Moran. In fact, you knew the parents and you were held
accountable because you were closest to the parents at that
school, and if you did something that stepped out of line from
what the parents wanted in that community, they could come talk
to you, and they probably did on a regular basis?
Secretary Cardona. That is correct.
Mr. Moran. I am confused. When we deal with education on
the Federal level, we seem to always want to push education up
to the Federal Government, and have the Federal Government
impose more and more mandates. My question to you is under your
administration as Secretary of Education, what have you done to
push more authority and control and power down to the parents
in the local school districts?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question. The same
values that I had as a fourth grade teacher and as a school
principal I have here. As a matter of fact, when I was at the
local level, and even at the district and State level, I
preferred that the decisions be made at the local level. I
think that is where it should be. What we are doing is we are
providing grants, and we are funding local boards. We are
building capacity of local boards and working and partnering
with them to make sure that we stay within our lane and stay in
our role.
As a matter of fact, the question you asked me about the
Parents Bill of Rights, I have been providing that same, those
rights since I was a teacher and principal. What that bills
does is provide a greater role for Federal Government to
monitor local school decisions.
Mr. Moran. I take it by your opposition to the Parents Bill
of Rights that you are for getting the Federal Government out
of local school districts and letting local school districts
actually perform on the local level, as opposed to having more
oversight from the Federal Government?
Secretary Cardona. Our country was designed to have local
control in school boards and that is something----
Mr. Moran. I love to hear you say that, and you just gave
me the two examples of the things I think, I thought you were
going to say about what the role of Federal Government is here
in education, and primarily its grants and funding. Is that an
accurate statement?
Secretary Cardona. Protecting the civil rights of students.
Mr. Moran. Is there--of those three things, so grants,
funding and protecting the civil rights of students, do you
believe that states are ill-equipped to do that on their own?
Secretary Cardona. I believe states sometimes need support
and guidance to do that work successfully.
Mr. Moran. Do you believe that there is a State presently
that cannot actually protect the civil rights of students or
provide funding or grants to local school districts, so that
they can decide locally how best to use that money?
Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to have my team
followup on some of the work that we are doing in the Office
for Civil Rights to support states and districts accomplish
that work, and I am proud that we can be a partner with states
and districts to get that work done.
Mr. Moran. Do you agree that me as a representative from
East Texas probably does not know local school districts in
California or New York nearly the way those folks know their
school districts in their communities. Would you agree with
that?
Secretary Cardona. I would agree that that makes sense,
that know your districts more than you know districts in other
parts of the country.
Mr. Moran. Right. I grew up in East Texas. I know East
Texas, and conversely the folks from California and New York,
even the ones from Republican districts, do not know East Texas
near as well as I do. Would you agree with that?
Secretary Cardona. I would agree with that.
Mr. Moran. Have you ever been to an East Texas school
district?
Secretary Cardona. I have been to Texas a number of times.
I do not recall specifically which districts right off the top
of my head. I am sure it is a wonderful district, and I am sure
the local officials there are doing a great job educating
students.
Mr. Moran. I agree. Thank you for your time today.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Moran. Ms. Wilson, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Wilson. Thank you. Thank you Madam Chair and thank you
Mr. Secretary for coming today, and thank you so much for
coming to Miami earlier this month, to highlight career
technical education and after school programs at two of the
Nation's best public schools, Dr. Frederica S. Wilson/Skyway
Elementary School, which also has the Frederica S. Wilson Boys
and Girls Club on campus and William H. Turner Technical Arts
High School.
At Turner Tech, Secretary Cardona met students as they
learned to become electricians, nurses, farmers, veterinarians,
plumbers and music producers. I want to thank Principal Frazier
and his staff for the outstanding work. The $43 million
increase in Federal career and technical education funding
included in the President's Fiscal Year 2024 budget ensures the
prosperity of these individual programs in my district and
across the Nation.
We rolled out the red carpet as Secretary Cardona visited
Dr. Frederica S. Wilson/Skyway Elementary School, the
birthplace of the 5,000 Role Models of Excellence Mentoring and
Dropout Prevention Program, which has empowered boys of color
for more than 30 years. He met grown men who came through the
program. Our own deputy superintendent of schools is a product.
Within the halls of that school, we held a roundtable to
underscore the importance of Federal investments in mentoring
and after school programs. I want to thank Principal James and
her team for their outstanding work.
I commend President Biden and Secretary Cardona for their
unwavering support of mentoring and after school programs in
the Fiscal Year 2024 budget. The key to our collective success
lies in early investments in our children's education. We can
do this by creating robust universal pre-K and compulsory
kindergarten programs on a national scale.
As the Ranking Member of the Higher Education and Workforce
Development Subcommittee, I am very concerned about the impact
of restarting the Federal student loan repayment program. The
integrity of our higher education system is at risk, as
delinquency and default rates are projected to skyrocket after
payments are restarted.
I look forward to working with the Secretary and my
colleagues to cancel student debt and increase Federal
assistance for students. With that Mr. Secretary, I have a few
questions.
There is a teacher shortage and it is getting worse.
People, parents are telling their children you will not become
a teacher. In a recent survey conducted by McKinsey and
Company, teachers cited salary as the No. 1 reason for
considering departing the profession. For that reason, I
sponsored the American Teacher Act, supporting State efforts to
establish minimum $60,000 teacher salaries, endorsed by the NEA
and the AMT.
Can you please elaborate on the Education Department's
commitment to addressing the teacher shortage through existing
Federal programs?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Thank you for such a
wonderful visit, and I appreciate what I saw there, a community
coming together. Multiple generations coming together for the
students and mentorship program was great. The career pathway
program there was amazing. I loved how connected it was to the
careers that exist in that community.
We do not have a teacher shortage issue. We have a teacher
respect issue in this country, and if we are not going to be
bold to address it, we are the doorstep of another crisis in
our schools. Our teachers have proven time and time again that
they will do what they need to do for students, and what we
have done as a country is not honor them the way they should be
honored.
I call it the ABCs of teaching. We need to provide our
teachers with agency, treat them like professionals, make sure
that we're listening to them, take into account their
perspective. Second to parents, they know the students most. B
is better working conditions, which means having mental health
support for students available, having professional development
opportunities for teachers to grow in their career, and have
career options for them as well.
Then C, competitive salaries. We have created a condition
where teachers feel guilty talking about salary. That is
unacceptable. Teachers are making on average 20 percent less
than people with similar degrees. We need to come together to
support our educators with more than just coffee on Teacher
Appreciation Week. We need to make sure we have competitive
salaries.
In our budget, we are putting dollars toward pathway
programs, pipeline programs. I talked earlier about
apprenticeship programs. Name another profession where you have
to work for 4 months for free full time? Student teachers have
to do that. This is why we are having a hard time recruiting.
We have work to do there, and we are committed to it.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Ms. Chavez-DeRemer, you are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Mr.
Secretary, thank you for joining us today. It is nice to meet
you. I am Laurie Chavez-Deremer, representing Oregon's Fifth
District.
Secretary Cardona. Nice to meet you.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. From some of the testimony I have heard
today, I know we are not going to agree on everything. From a
lot of what you said, it encourages me to want to build a
working relationship with you in this role, because I think at
the end of the day we are going to share the same goals,
setting up our Nation's kids for success.
In Oregon, high schools are no longer required to
demonstrate that each of their kids are graduating with the
ability to read and write at their grade level. That does not
set our kids up for success. If they cannot read at a high
school level, how are they supposed to understand their rights
as workers or compare job offers? If they cannot write at a
high school level, how can we expect them to negotiate pay or
apply for new jobs?
Mr. Secretary, what happens when kids graduate high school
without being able to read or write at a level needed for
navigating their professional life?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question,
Congresswoman. Great to meet you and I look forward to working
with you as well. You are absolutely right. If basic literacy
is not met, if math functioning is not met, we could talk about
pathways all we want, but our students are not going to be able
to take those careers and go on to college. Basic literacy-
numeracy is critical for students to be successful.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Following up to that, is it serving our
kids, whether they are from Oregon or any State, to bring their
high schools down to standards where students do not need to
graduate with these basic, necessary skills?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. While I cannot speak specifically
to what was done in your State, I would be happy to have a
conversation with you about that at another time. I will say
that what we need to be doing, which is why we called it
``Raise the Bar,'' we need to be raising the bar. The
performance of our students was made worse by the pandemic, but
it was nothing to brag about before the pandemic.
We believe our students should be leading the world, and
our plan to raise the bar includes rigor in academics, high
standards, ensuring that students have good, well-rounded
comprehensive educations so they can choose to go on to 2-year
school, 4 year school or join the workforce. They have options.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Kids avoid these situations
irrespective of their state's policies. When teachers and
parents have great and communicative relationships, both
parties working together is in the best interest of the
student, I believe. Mr. Secretary, would you agree that in
parent-teacher relationships, teachers should provide deference
to the parents?
Secretary Cardona. I do believe that teachers and parents
should be working very closely together, and it should be a
proactive relationship, not just when there are issues. There
should be times where teachers can get to know the parents. The
more you know the parents, the more you know how to help the
child.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Should parents have the ability to
provide with direct feedback about what they are teaching?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. I believe those processes do exist,
where there is ongoing communication, and if there are concerns
or--I mean in the past, I have had parents ask me if it is
possible to share a little bit of, you know, reading materials
on a particular topic that was of interest to the student, to
help reengage the student at a better, in a better way. I do
believe that that is something that should happen.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. That makes sense to me. If a child has
being bullied or has a drastic change in behavior, should
teachers be transparent with parents about what they are
observing at school?
Secretary Cardona. Through ongoing communication, that
should be existing already, yes.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Also in your testimony, you mentioned
that high schools need to set up students for success in
pursuing a college diploma or technical and career. I mean I
think, and I would agree with you 100 percent, you are hitting
the nail on the head for sure. As you know, a lot of students
would want to pursue technical and career cannot use the Pell
grants to cover short-term programs which prepare them for the
necessary skills to thrive in technical and career. I know it
is mentioned in your budget, but are you supportive of
increasing Pell grant eligibility to those short-term programs?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. I have frequently said if we are
asking our schools and districts to evolve, we need to evolve
also. I am interested in looking at ways to expand it to short-
term Pell, with increased accountability to make sure that the
students are getting a benefit from it. I am open to that, yes.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. My final question, is this an area that
you will commit to working with the Committee on then?
Secretary Cardona. Absolutely.
Ms. Chavez-DeRemer. Okay. Well, I look forward to working
with you. I appreciate you being here today, and with that
Madam Chairwoman, I yield back my time.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. I recognize now Mr. Bowman for
5 minutes.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary,
it is great to see you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank
you for your continued stellar service, and congratulations on
an amazing career. It is not often where you get to meet a
Secretary of Education that actually taught in our classrooms,
led schools as a principal, worked as a superintendent, and led
an entire State. You really have moved up the ranks. Thank you
so much for your service.
I want to zoom out for a moment because the Republican
proposed budget seeks to cut $4.5 trillion overall, which will
obviously have a huge impact on education. While Republicans
continue to speak about these budget cuts, they do not also
speak about increased spending to invest more in our children
and our families. They supported the Trump tax cuts for the
wealthiest Americans a few years ago, and are now unwilling to
even discuss making sure the wealthy among us contribute their
fair share to the American economy and to education.
We have a current economic system where two of the
wealthiest Americans own more wealth than the bottom 50 percent
of the country combined. The wealthy are not contributing their
fair share, and large corporations are not contributing their
fair share, whereas at the same time we are talking about
budget cuts.
We are not having honest, holistic, comprehensive
conversations, and it seems the party, the Republican Party is
going through a sort of cognitive dissonance, where on the one
hand they are speaking about caring about student learning,
whereas on the other hand their budget proposal will cut
hundreds of thousands of teachers from our classrooms.
On the one hand they are speaking about caring about
student mental health, where on the other hand their budget
proposal will cut thousands of mental health professionals from
being in our schools. Their budget would also cut the arts and
music and sports programs, not just in the Bronx and Mount
Vernon in my district, but also in Arkansas, Ohio, Michigan,
Florida, and will hurt not just urban black and brown kids, but
rural white kids as well.
Rural white kids love music. They would love to learn how
to play an instrument. They would love to have theater, drama
and arts programs in their schools, and they would love to
participate in a holistic, comprehensive education program.
Unfortunately, because local property taxes fund our schools
more than anything else, wealthy kids continue to get the kids
that poor rural kids do not get, and poor urban kids do not
get.
It is very frustrating for me to sit here as a lifelong
educator, to listen to Republicans who do not have one former
educator in their party on this Committee talk about what we
need to be doing in our schools and what we need to be doing
when it comes to education. It is incredibly frustrating that
they are not being honest. They call themselves patriots, they
call themselves patriots. They claim to love America.
How can they love America when they are not investing in
our most precious resource, which is our children? If you
really love America, you want to see America grow and thrive
for decades to come. The best way to do that is to make sure
our children and families have everything they need. At the
same time, they want to cut SNAP benefits, they want to cut $4
billion from Title I schools. These are the poorest, most
vulnerable people.
If we put them in desperate situations, they will turn to
doing something that will harm their community, which is crime.
Their budget also cuts hundreds of thousands of law enforcement
officers. Now we do not have the resources to respond to our
kids on the front end or the back end, and we are leaving our
families to suffer. My question is this: Speak to us about the
impact of these cuts and how they will contribute to the school
to prison pipeline, and talk about how community schools can be
a response to that.
Secretary Cardona. Sure. You know----
Chairwoman Foxx. The gentleman has 20 seconds.
Secretary Cardona. As the President says, show me your
budget and I will show your values. It costs more to intervene
and incarcerate than it does to educate. We are either going to
pay now or pay later. We need to invest in our children and
invest in our country.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. I now recognize Mr. DeSaulnier
for 5 minutes.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you,
Secretary. It is a pleasure to see you and have you here with
your experience. I want to talk about mental health. You have
talked about it a lot here today. Last session we passed the
bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and last session I was able
to get the Mental Health Matters Act out of the House, not in
bipartisan fashion, not able to get it through the Senate.
First on the bipartisan Safer Communities Act that was
enacted, any feedback you have so far in your enactment, trying
to get more of those--I know it is early--resources to the
schools? I put this in the context of two things you have
mentioned. For years, I have gone out to school districts in my
district in the San Francisco Bay area. It is a very diverse
district, very wealthy district, very poor ones.
The two things I hear regularly from rank-and-file
educators, administrators and teachers is first your comment
about respect. Young people say they chose to be teachers in a
high cost area like where they are from, and their frustration
is their passion for it, but their lack of respect from the
larger community and their mental health. I regularly hear from
administrators and teachers and parents what they need is more
counselors.
What do you--what do you see as successes, early successes
in the bipartisan Safer Communities Act, and on the Mental
Health Matters Act, and I continue to have discussions with my
friend, the Chair, on how we could do more around this, about
attracting young people in the mental health fields. Since
parity in the ACA, we have over 300 percent increase in adults
and kids asking for mental health resources.
We have unfortunately an inverse response from people
choosing to go in the field. I recently had a meeting with some
people who have $350,000 worth of debt from the Wright
Institute in Berkeley, California near my district. They have
no professional lifetime of actually getting that. The two
questions are in the first bill, what do you see as successes,
early as it may be? In the second bill, how do we deal with the
dilemma of the good news is, stigma is going, is getting
healthier about particularly the young people for accessing.
We have these huge demands, and we do not really have a
thoughtful way to get young people to go into the profession to
meet the needs?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that, and you know I feel
optimistic, sir. You know, career pathways and mental health
support for students seems to be something that everyone agrees
needs to happen. The bipartisan Safer Communities Act provides
a necessary funding to help double the number of social
workers, counselors. It provides the support and immediate
needs that our schools are having. Teachers, principals,
parents, they all agree that these dollars are needed. Red and
blue states, it is something that we know we need to do better,
and thankfully the funding is there for that.
I am seeing this becoming an issue that unifies people and
brings people together around the needs of our students and our
educators, and I appreciate you mentioning that. I recently
spoke to teachers at the Department of Education just for a
focus group and they said, you know, please do not forget we
are dealing with the same mental health issues our students are
facing. Sometimes we have displaced trauma. Please make sure
that your plan includes us. I respect that.
With regard to the shortage, we have to think outside the
box. If we do what we have done, we are only going to get what
we have got, and that is not good enough. We have to create
pathway programs. We have to work with our higher education
institutions to work with K-12 districts, to find pathways and
start tapping our freshmen and sophomores in high school, and
asking them to consider a career in the mental health space and
provide pathways for that.
Our Augusta Hawkins grant does that. The work we are doing
around apprenticeships does that, and we are continuing to look
for ways to lift up examples of where that works.
Mr. DeSaulnier. To followup on this, we have got great
research on--I mean in the last 20 years, we have learned more
about neuroscience and the development of cognitive development
successfully. I recently talked to Susan Linn, a Harvard
researcher, who wrote Who's Minding Our Kids: The Effect of
Social Media. Another wonderful researcher at Stanford, another
woman, wrote Dopamine Nation. I meet with her next week.
We have all these amazing, this amazing knowledge unlike
anything probably in the history of our species. We are not
taking that research and deploying it, for some of the reasons
we just mentioned. What can we do at this Committee in a
bipartisan fashion, to work with you to get that kind of
overview?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. You are absolutely right. One
of the challenges we have is turning research into practice,
and what we are trying to do is provide guidance in real terms
and make sure we are listening to educators, parents, so that
our guidance is reflective of their needs, not policy at a
50,000-foot view level.
Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you. I yield back. I hope I get a
gold star.
Chairwoman Foxx. You are pushing, you are pushing. We are
going to go vote and then come back. We have some members on
our side who will be coming back after votes. Would you--would
you like to go Ms. Omar, before we go vote or--OK. You are
recognized for 5 minutes.
Ms. Omar. Thank you. Mr. Secretary, thank you so much for
being here with us. Thank you for all that you are doing to
advance education in this country. I feel like our education
system is under assault. In many states, there are drastic
measures that are being taken that is going to make it hard for
a lot of our kids to feel as if they are part of a community
and can receive the education that they need, in order to be
able to succeed.
There are organizations like Moms for Liberty, I call them
Moms for Dictatorship, for Disrespect, for Disinformation, for
abuse, for harassment, for bullying because many of the things
that they are advocating for is to create an environment where
a lot of our kids feel intimidated, a lot of our kids feel as
if they are not living in an open, inclusive society. When we
think of the naming of liberty, we think about liberty and the
pursuit of happiness, letting people achieve their dreams and
be able to exist as they wish to exist in this country and
around the world.
I want to hear what the Department of Education is doing to
push back against some of this discourse, some of the
legislation that's being proposed in Florida and in Texas. We
saw that there was a legislation that was asking for young
women to disclose when they were menstruating. I cannot imagine
the level, the level of disrespect that a child might feel, or
my daughters might feel when a teacher or an administrator
wants to get some information that is so personal for them.
What is the Department of Education doing?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congresswoman, and yes, we
also feel that students who are most in need of support are
often targeted by folks, and made to feel that they are not
welcome or accepted for who they are.
Ms. Omar. Yes. Does the Department of Education have tools
to push back against that, or do you need legislation to help
you do that?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Clearly legislation would help, and
we would be, you know, implementing legislation. We have
provided more fact sheets and documents around the rights of
educators, the rights of education leaders, the
responsibilities that they have. We have made sure that our
Office for Civil Rights is responsive and clear around what
role they provide. Our Office of Elementary and Secondary
Education has provided countless documents and clarity around
what the roles and responsibilities are of boards and State
officials.
We have stood up and used our position to make sure we made
it clear that all students should be respected, all students
should be seen and valued for who they are, and we are going to
continue to do that. We recognize many of our students are
under attack, especially our most vulnerable students, and we
have the responsibility to stand up for those students, whether
it is through op-eds, using the bully pulpit, clarifying fact
sheets.
Ms. Omar. Thank you.
Secretary Cardona. We have done our part and we are going
to continue.
Ms. Omar. I also want to congratulate you on the student
debt cancellation that the administration has implemented. I
know that there are some challenges in the court. I want to ask
if there is an update, and also once you are in the clear, does
the Department have the resources, the manpower to be able to
carry it out as effectively and efficiently as possible?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that. We are excited about
the long-time targeted debt relief that is going to help 43
million Americans. We look forward to a positive decision from
the Supreme Court, and we are geared up, ready to go. We
recognize it has never been done before, to bring on up to 43
million people back to repayment. The Student Aid Office is
ready. We want to be more responsive than we have been in the
past, and make sure that we provide good service.
I will say that if the budget proposal that we have here is
not supported, it would significantly impact our ability to
serve the 43 million borrowers. It would affect our ability to
serve those students who are going to be eligible for FASA. We
anticipate over 600,000 more students having access to higher
education with our better FASA.
Ms. Omar. Wonderful, and we look forward to making sure you
have the resources that you need, and the Republicans do not
succeed in stopping you from completing this effort. Thank you
so much and I yield back.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you. Mr. Comer, you are recognized
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Comer. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, thank you
for being here today. I have written you several times over the
last few months, not just in my capacity as a member of the
House Education Committee but as chairman of the House
Oversight Committee, and I am glad to have the opportunity to
discuss some of these issues with you today.
My most recent correspondence was in conjunction with
Chairwoman Foxx. In that letter, we requested additional
information regarding the Department's plan to allow borrowers
to self-certify their income for eligibility for income-driven
repayment plans. The Department announced these changes on
January 10th of this year, and it has left loan administrators
and borrowers without guidance on how these changes will be
implemented.
We are also concerned that self-certification of income
will result in fraudulent reporting. That is a priority for my
House Oversight Committee, fraud. To date, my staff and I have
not received a response from your letter, from our letter. Will
you commit to scheduling the requested briefing regarding the
Department's actions by the end of this week?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman Comer and I do
look forward to having my team continue ongoing engagement.
With regard to the reporting of income, we are working to
improve the system, to make sure that we have the information
directly from the IRS, to reduce paperwork and make sure that
the information is accurate.
We take the engagement with the Oversight Committee very
seriously, and we want to make sure that we are responsive to
any requests and act in good faith.
Mr. Comer. Can we get a briefing from the Department staff
on exactly how that is being implemented because this waste
fraud abuse within the whole Federal Government is out of
control, and we try to nip in the bud before it happens. This
looks like fraud waiting to happen here.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. We do take that issue very
seriously. I agree with you that we have to be very mindful of
every dollar that is being used. I will make sure that there is
a communication to your team from my team and we are responsive
in our engagement with you.
Mr. Comer. Okay. Mr. Secretary, Section 117 of the Higher
Education Act currently requires institutions of higher
education to disclose gifts or contracts from a foreign source
valued at more than $250,000. Since 1986, gifts and contracts
to the U.S. institutes of higher education from China, Russia,
Saudi Arabia and Qatar have totaled more than $11 billion. For
instance, the University of Pennsylvania, home of the infamous
Penn Biden Center for Diplomacy, where President Biden stored
some of his classified documents, reported a nearly 400 percent
increase in foreign gifts and contracts, including
approximately $22 million in anonymous donations from China.
Coincidentally, you recently announced the Office of
Federal Student Aid would be taking over enforcement activities
relating to potential Section 117 violations, an office with
little or no background in such disclosures and indicated
potential violations would have a much lower level of scrutiny.
What steps has the Department taken to strengthen Section 117
enforcement in the transition from the Office of General
Counsel to the Office of Federal Student Loan Aid?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. We take foreign
threats very seriously, and we will be responding to all the
letters that we receive. We respect the protecting intellectual
property here in the United States, and with regard to Section
117, we are improving reporting by moving it to FSA and
building capacity. We have gotten over 34,000 public filings
already. We are on pace to have the most in any other
administration. We take it very seriously.
Mr. Comer. Let me say this before I would like to yield the
balance of my time to the Chair. We have got a problem with our
universities, according to multiple university presidents I
have spoken with, that we have Chinese students that are
stealing our intellectual property. They are essentially
serving as spies for the Chinese Communist Party.
We have certain universities that are receiving enormous
anonymous gifts from the Chinese Communist Party. This is a
concern for the House Oversight Committee. With that Madam
Chair, I yield the balance of my time.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Secretary, as
I mentioned in our--I want to followup on what Congressman
Comer's talking about. As I mentioned in our call last week, we
have transmitted to the Department several oversight letters
with requests for information. Right now, some we have received
no response; with others we have received minimal response, and
nearly all the letters were late and most of them the request
for documents have been ignored.
Without objection, I submit for the record a summary chart
of the letters and the status of each, the letters we sent to
the Department and the response letters we received where they
exist, and the instructions the Committee provided to the
Department for responding to the letters. As Mr. Comer has
suggested, we will continue to press for the answers to the
questions that we are asking and the information that we need.
Will you commit to responding fully and promptly to all the
letters I have indicated in the chart?
[The letters follow:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Chair Foxx. We take it very
seriously, and to be responsive.
Chairwoman Foxx. I just need a yes or a no.
Secretary Cardona. I do commit to make sure that we
continue to respond to your letters in a timely way and in good
faith, yes.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. With that, I
recognize Mr. Mrvan for 5 minutes.
Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Secretary Cardona. In March 2021, I
was proud to support the House package of the American Rescue
Plan Act. This historic investment in our Nation's K through 12
education system enabled school districts, teachers, staff and
students to weather the novel challenges posed by the pandemic.
My home State of Indiana received over $1.9 billion from
this law. Specifically local educational agencies were able to
leverage these funds to strengthen teacher development and
preparation programs, as well as provide educators with
competitive, livable salaries. What data has the Department
collected about how states and districts are using ARP funds?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, and thank you
for the support of the American Rescue Plan dollars. Without
question, that was a lifeline for our schools, and in my
conversations and my travels to over 40 states and territories,
without question that helped get our students reconnected to
schools. It helped colleges stay open, and there were a lot of
colleges that would have closed.
In the K-12 space, over 50 percent of the dollars were used
for staffing and academic recovery, 23 percent on school
infrastructure. What that means is basically addressing
deferred maintenance on the air circulation system. Quite
frankly, I visited some districts where the system hadn't been
touched in over 10 years, and they had to basically gut it and
start it from scratch. The American Rescue Plan dollars helped
that happen. Mental health supports is another area where those
dollars were critical.
As you know, we are in a youth mental health crisis right
now. If it were not for those dollars, we would be dealing with
much worse data on the condition of our youth. It has been
used. We put--because we want to make sure we are clear where
the dollars are being used, we put on our website, www.ed.gov,
a link on the opening page, ARP Data Transparency, where you
can see how the dollars were used in every district.
Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. The mental health
accessibility, the ability to invest in HVAC systems that could
help with viruses, which I believe was used to clear that air
to get schools back or children back in schools, was a vital
part of that. I appreciate that.
The second part of my question is can you describe how the
President's budget proposal will buildupon the investment to
support a diverse and highly qualified educator workforce?
Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that. We have to
recognize that sustaining a highly qualified workforce is
critical if we're serious about our students improving in
reading and math, if we are serious about students finding
pathways to career and college. It all starts with making sure
that we have a highly qualified workforce and retaining a
highly qualified workforce.
Our budget proposal includes measures to drill down and
make--fund pathway programs that are grow your own programs.
For example, in a community you might have a paraeducator who
is supporting students, or you might have parents who might
have a degree in something else, but do not have a degree in
teaching. Recruiting them, creating a pathway for them to get
to the teaching credentials, and then going back into the
district. We have a program called the Augusta Hawkins grant
that does that, to help diversify the teaching profession.
We are working very intently on making sure we expand
apprenticeship programs. Currently, student teachers work for 4
months without getting paid. We have to fix that. If we are
going to recruit and retain teachers, we have to make sure that
the teaching profession is viewed like other professions, and
you get paid while you do that. We are--we went from two states
that have apprenticeship programs; we are up to 16. We want to
get to 50.
We want to make sure that we are helping. We want to work
with 4-year institutions, to make sure that they are working
more closely with K-12 districts, so we can be tapping freshmen
and sophomores on the shoulder and saying you should be a
teacher like I was tapped on the shoulder.
Mr. Mrvan. Coming from a heavy labor force or labor
organized district, just elaborate a little bit more on the
apprenticeship program for the teachers, and what that means.
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Much like in some of the trade
industries, we have a young person or a new person learning
skills from someone that has done the job for a long time. We
want to make sure that we have apprenticeship programs for
teachers as well. You learn best by doing with a seasoned
mentor that knows the ins and outs. That, coupled with pedagogy
instruction at the university level, is the best pathway.
Right now, our systems are designed where in many cases,
our pre-service teachers do not get into the classroom until
their last year of the profession. We have to change that, to
make sure that they are prepared and connected to the students
that they are going to serve.
Mr. Mrvan. I thank you, Mr. Secretary, and I appreciate you
looking at it from the perspective of drawing more equitable
teachers into that field, and also doing what you can to bring
in and change that profession for the better. Thank you. With
that, I yield back my time Chairwoman.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Mrvan. Mr. Secretary, we
are going to go vote, and then we will be back. Thank you.
[Recess.]
Chairwoman Foxx. I thank everyone for their patience in
coming back and thank you, Mr. Secretary, for waiting for us. I
now recognize Mr. Estes for 5 minutes.
Mr. Estes. Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you Secretary
for joining us today. It is so important for us to--on the
legislative branch to be involved so much in the activities of
the Department. I know there is a whole list of issues that we
can go over, and one of the things I wanted to make sure that
some of the questions other folks had, they had an opportunity
to cover. I want to yield my time to the Chair, so she can ask
some more questions. I know she has in depth.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Estes. Mr. Secretary, one
more question as a followup to what we were discussing earlier
on the letters, and that other people have expressed their
concern about. Could we get you to commit to fully responding
in the future to letters and requests we transmit in accordance
with the instructions? I think you indicated that earlier, but
I would like to get a clear response from you on that.
Secretary Cardona. Sure, Chair Foxx. We certainly do take
that very seriously, and I commit that our Department will
respond to letters and provide the information that we can
provide to you in good faith.
Chairwoman Foxx. Now I would like to turn to a positive
note. You have mentioned how you would like us to work in a
bipartisan manner. Others have done that. We had a hearing on
WIOA the other day that was very bipartisan, and we think one
area of bipartisan support that we find in the Committee is
support for Workforce Pell or some call it short-term Pell. We
would like to call it Workforce Pell.
I introduced the Pell Act, which requires short-term
programs to meet strong guardrails to ensure students receive a
return on their investment. Importantly, the Pell Act does
exclude any types of providers of high-quality online
education. My belief is if a provider can meet the guardrails,
the work wouldn't take away high quality education options for
the students. I am thrilled that Ranking Member Scott has also
introduced his own proposal, which does not exclude for-profit
providers.
Sixteen other House Democrats also joined in supporting
Workforce Pell, that allows high quality for-profit providers
to participate. As I said, we had a really good hearing on
workforce issues. Now that there seems to be some agreement on
a path forward, will the Department support Workforce Pell for
all?
Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that. I said earlier
today that I feel if we are asking our institutions----
Chairwoman Foxx. Microphone, excuse me.
Secretary Cardona. Okay. If we are asking our institutions
to evolve to meet the students' needs, we too need to be
thinking about different ways to meet the demand. I look
forward to hearing more about it and engaging in working in
bipartisan fashion to support the legislation, thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. I will just add one more comment to that.
In terms of again, I am always very sensitive to language and
how we are talking about things. I think most people want to
get degrees or certification to get a job. We are not just
talking about community college. We are not talking about
baccalaureate. We are talking about all kinds of opportunities
for people I think here.
I think it is best if we talk about a continuum, and I know
you have alluded to that. Thank you very much. We look forward
to working with you. I yield back to Mr. Estes, who I think is
going to yield to Mr. Owens.
Mr. Estes. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I will yield the
remainder of my time to Mr. Owens.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. Thank you so much. I just wanted to I
just spend just a few minutes to represent those voices of the
millions of Americans who have been left behind over the last
few years. We talk about Baltimore. There is an article here,
23 schools, zero proficiency in math. That is right here in our
shadow, this last year. Talk about often the 75 percent of
black boys in the State of California that the Department of
Education said could not read and write.
These are the real Americans outside of our bubble, and I
know it is nice to kind of come here. We talk about bipartisan.
We can kind of talk flowery words, but there are people that
are actually dying today, hopelessness, no desire to move
forward because they are not getting educated. Let me ask you
this. First of all, what types of schools would you take a look
at for your children to go to?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Mr. Owens. I agree with you.
That level of----
Mr. Owens. I only have a few minutes, so what type of
schools would you--would private, would parochial, would
charter, would public? What would be the options you would give
yourself if you were trying to find the best school for your
children?
Secretary Cardona. My wife and I would look at all options.
My children attend public schools, I attended public schools.
Mr. Owens. Okay. Now let me ask you this. I am sorry,
because we are running out of time. If your children, who you
love dearly, where you vision there are great things that we
all do, found themselves in a place like this where the schools
are failing, what would you do to get them out of that?
Secretary Cardona. Sir, I guess the best way to look at
this, as Secretary of Education, I have a responsibility for 65
million students.
Mr. Owens. No, no, no, I am sorry. I am going to break this
down. I am sorry. I am going to break it down to those who are
listening, that are going through what we are dealing with
right now today. Those kinds of people, we would take away
their titles. What would you do as a parent if you found
yourself in this situation, like millions of black and Hispanic
kids are doing every single day and they have no choice. What
would you, how would you handle that?
Secretary Cardona. I would advocate for the President's
budget.
Mr. Owens. Would that be choice?
Secretary Cardona. I would advocate for funding schools, so
that those students could have access to success.
Mr. Owens. Would that be all schools? I mean these schools
here have enough money. This school here, 21,000 per child.
21,000 is Baltimore schools. It is not the school; it is not
the money. It is failure of a system. Giving them more money
would not be the key. Would you give them choice to get out?
Secretary Cardona. When you have choice sir----
Mr. Owens. Would you give yourself choice to get out, your
children to get out of that situation? Would you do something
to choose to get away from that, or just because the system is
there, you would just go with it?
Secretary Cardona. Make sure we improve the local schools
as well. I want to make sure that wherever my kids go to
school, they have success.
Mr. Owens. Okay. You will stay there. Okay, well thank you
so much, appreciate it. Just know I would never do that to my
children, never, ever. Okay, just so you know. I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. I now recognize Ms. Houchin for 5 minutes.
Ms. Houchin. Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for your
testimony. I am going to in the spirit of time, just go through
a few yes or no questions, Mr. Secretary. As you know, the
House and this Committee passed the Protection of Women and
Girls in Sports Act, in an effort to protect Title IX, which
the Department of Education has failed to do. As the parent of
two female student athletes, I have a vested interest in this
issue.
Do you believe that requiring those women to undress in
front of Leah Thomas and allowing Leah Thomas to undress in
front of female athletes constitute sexual harassment, yes or
no?
Secretary Cardona. I do not believe students should be--
feel unsafe in any locker room.
Ms. Houchin. Do you believe that it constitutes sexual
harassment to force women to undress in front of biological
males?
Secretary Cardona. I do believe forcing women to undress in
front of biological males is a concern and sexual----
Ms. Houchin. If Thomas identified as male, would requiring
female swimmers to dress with him have constituted sexual
harassment?
Secretary Cardona. Can you repeat the question?
Ms. Houchin. If Leah Thomas identifies as male, would
requiring female swimmers to dress with him have constituted
sexual harassment?
Secretary Cardona. I think I know the line of questioning,
and I would be happy to entertain----
Ms. Houchin. Just say yes or no.
Secretary Cardona. It is not a yes or no question for me
because----
Ms. Houchin. It is a yes or no question. Is it sexual
harassment or not?
Secretary Cardona. You can continue down--you can use your
time to go down that line of questioning----
Ms. Houchin. If female athletes are sidelined from
participation in women's sports or denied awards or other
recognition only because a male who self-identifies as a girl
competes in this sport, does this constitute sex discrimination
under Title IX?
Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to discuss the merits
of our proposal and hear your concerns about the policy. This
line of questioning where----
Ms. Houchin. Yes or no. Do you think that female athletes
sidelined from participation in women's sports, if they are
denied awards or recognition because a male who identifies as a
girl competes in the sport, does that constitute sex
discrimination under Title IX, yes or no?
Secretary Cardona. I believe the harassment or
discrimination against transgender students is something that
is rampant in this country, and as a Department we are
proposing regulations to make sure that all students are seen
and valued for who they are, and given the same opportunities--
--
Ms. Houchin. Under Title IX, under that interpretation,
under--are you admitting then that Title IX under your
interpretation no longer protects female athletes' equal
opportunity on the basis of sex?
Secretary Cardona. I am proud of the work we are doing to
make sure that all students feel valued and seen in schools,
and there are students right now that are hurting because
elected officials have chosen to use their platform to further
ostracize them, and we take pride in making sure schools----
Ms. Houchin. Why have you proposed--why have you proposed a
regulation that will under some circumstances require schools
and colleges to commit acts of sex discrimination under Title
IX by permitting biological men to take the place of female
athletes in women's sports?
Secretary Cardona. If you look at our proposed Title IX
regulations, it does not do that. What it does is prevent
blanket bans on students who are transgender and allows
students to participate in co-curricular activities which are
part of the education process.
Ms. Houchin. If those biological males are required to
dress with female athletes, does that constitute sexual
harassment?
Secretary Cardona. Are you referring to transgender girls?
Ms. Houchin. Yes.
Secretary Cardona. I believe transgender girls should have
access to all the experiences that public schools provide.
Ms. Houchin. Why is it not--why do you not feel that female
athletes should be protected from sexual harassment?
Secretary Cardona. All athletes should be protected from
sexual harassment.
Ms. Houchin. What you are saying is contradictory. Okay. I
am going to move on to free speech. The suppression of
conservative speech has been an ongoing issue. Over 60 percent
of students in a recent survey believe the political and social
climate on their college campuses prevents free speech and
expression. Earlier this year, the Department questioned the
necessity of the Free Inquiry Rule, that protects students'
rights to free speech on their campuses and allows courts to
hold institutions in violation accountable. Do you believe that
violations of free speech are not happening on college
campuses?
Secretary Cardona. Free speech is the foundation for higher
education, and we support it 100 percent. The Department can
only act after the court rules that a public institute of
higher education has violated the First Amendment.
Ms. Houchin. Secretary Cardona, your Department is
questioning the effectiveness of the rule before the legal
process established by the rule has ever been carried out.
Secretary Cardona. We believe in free speech and the
importance of protecting free speech on college campuses.
Ms. Houchin. Your Department has also questioned if the
Free Inquiry Rule has detrimental effects that seem
contradictory. How can you rule, have a rule--how can a rule
have detrimental effects if no cases have been ruled on by a
judge yet and no final judgments have been transmitted to the
Department to act on?
Secretary Cardona. I would be happy to have my Department
reach back out to you to share information about it, and I am
proud of the fact that we are protecting the freedom of speech
that our students have on higher education institutions.
Ms. Houchin. Thank you, thank you. I yield the remainder of
my time to the Chair.
Mr. Owens. Thank you. I yield to Mr. Smucker for 5 minutes.
Mr. Smucker. Sorry about that. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for
yielding and thank you Secretary for coming before the
Committee and answering some of our questions. One of the I
think most pressing issues today is President Biden's student
debt bailout, which is deeply unfair to the majority of middle-
class Americans. In my district, only 17-1/2 percent of people
have a bachelor's degree. 63 percent of my constituents have no
college degree at all.
Essentially what the bailout is doing is asking my
constituents to subsidize the education of others. According to
the National Taxpayers Union, the cost of debt cancellation and
your proposed income-driven repayment plan will cost each
American taxpayer $3,527.
I find it simply unacceptable that you would ask my
constituents who do not have a college degree and millions more
across the country to shoulder that burden for individuals who
knew what they were getting into, who signed their own name to
a Federal college loan. Just wonder if you would care to
respond to that.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman. I want to make
sure it is very clear that the targeted debt relief, 90 percent
of the dollars will go to people making less than $75,000. It
is to help middle class Americans and those who are struggling
to get back on their feet as a result of the pandemic. I make
it analogous to small business, the PPP loans to helped keep
those businesses afloat. It is because of the pandemic, and it
is a one-time payment.
What it is intended to do is prevent defaults from
happening. We were projecting a significant number of defaults
in loans, which is bad for the entire community in which those
people live. What we are trying to do is provide targeted debt
relief. The overwhelming majority of people that would get it
are making less than $75,000.
Mr. Smucker. I can tell, just reState in talking to my
constituents, they see it as very unfair to themselves. They
believe that people have gone into this, knowing what they were
getting into, and they have made choices based on what they
wanted to do and their own lives and the direction they wanted
to go, and they feel like they are being held responsible for
others.
We did send a letter. I signed onto a letter with the
Chairwoman expressing concern that the Department's outside
auditor, KPMG, was unable to give an audit opinion because of
your insufficient evidence to back up the cost estimates and
the take-up rate for the student loan bailout plan. In fact,
KPMG had to issue a disclaimer of opinion, which I believe is
the first time in 20 years that the Department received this
kind of disclaimer.
How can taxpayers trust your Department of Education to
spend their money wisely if you and your staff cannot even
account for how much money you are spending?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for the question. I want to
just make a very quick comment. The President has already
reduced the deficit by more than 1.7 trillion, and we're
projecting a $3 trillion deficit reduction in the next 10 years
with this budget, with reference to the context of the student
loan forgiveness. With regard to the audit, the disclaimer was
not a negative assessment as you know. It was done because
there was never in the history of our Department an attempt to
do what we are doing, to provide targeted debt relief.
It was more a disclaimer. We do take our fiscal
responsibility very seriously at the Department of Education,
and we will continue to do that.
Mr. Smucker. We will let that--one other quick question I
would like to get in. I am concerned about the initiation of
loan repayment after 3 years of paused payments.
Secretary Cardona. Right.
Mr. Smucker. The Department has lost experienced servicers
and those that remain face serious staffing challenges, which
will create difficulties I am afraid for borrowers during the
transition. I believe you confirmed in a Senate Appropriations
hearing that the Department will resume those loan payments
shortly after June 30th.
Secretary Cardona. Yes.
Mr. Smucker. However, I have heard from constituents and
servicers as well that they have received no communication or
guidance regarding the resumption of payments, and I am
wondering if you could confirm that you provided the servicers
with the information that they need to be prepared for
repayment?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you for that question, and it
gives me an opportunity to kind of support what you are saying.
Yes, we are in communication regularly with our servicers, but
the budget that we are proposing, if not--if we do not have the
funding in FSA, we are going to see extended delays. Our
veterans are not going to get the services that they need in a
timely way. We are not going to be able to process the FAFSA
applications. Your support of the funding for FSA will make
sure that that on ramp to repayment is smooth, as smooth as
possible for our borrowers.
Mr. Smucker. Just one quick--can you commit, can you
provide all communications that you provided to servicers as it
pertains to repayment to this Committee?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. I believe that was in one of
the letters. We are working in good faith to be responsive to
those letters, thank you.
Mr. Smucker. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Smucker. Mr. Thompson, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Thompson. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mr. Secretary, thank
you for taking the time to be here today, much appreciated. As
you know that I believe we all share the common goal of
supporting academic excellence for students of all age, but
particularly for young students early on in their academic
careers, to build the foundation for success.
Now funding from the targeted education incentive finance
grants under Title I, Part A of the Elementary and Secondary
Education Act is intended to go to schools serving low income,
high poverty areas. Now these grants are allocated based on a
complex formula that considers both the percentage and the
number of disadvantaged students in a given area.
As part of the Every Student Succeeds Act in 2015, Congress
mandated a study on Title I funding for formulas, in order to
ensure that funds are actually going to the local education
agencies that need them the most. Madam Chairwoman, I would ask
unanimous consent to insert into the record this 2019 report
from the National Center for Education Statistics on the
mathematical formula for Part A grants under Title I.
Chairwoman Foxx. Without objection.
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Mr. Thompson. Thank you, ma'am. What this report shows is
what local education agencies in my district and around the
country have been saying for decades. The formula simply is not
fair. The number weighting disproportionately sends funds to
large school districts. The report found even if they have a
low percentage of poverty because of the number weighting. This
leaves school districts in low-income rural areas like my
district on the short end of the stick.
Mr. Secretary, the support to offset the impact of poverty
on education and learning should not be based on your zip code.
It should be on your actual circumstances. Mr. Secretary, what
do you think is the solution to address this discrepancy?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, Congressman, for that
question, for sharing that. I share, I share those beliefs. For
far too long, I believe our rural communities have not been
identified as in need as they really are. In fact, the pandemic
showed that our rural communities were often the communities
that had the least access to broadband, the least access to
one-on-one devices and to highly certified teachers.
We take that very seriously. I visited several rural
communities. I have spoken to teachers and parents in rural
communities and students, to hear from them directly. I am
proud to say that the Title I dollars, rural districts would
share on the $2.2 billion increase. The rural education program
in our budget has $215 million.
Mr. Thompson. Well, Mr. Secretary, you are talking about
new money. I am talking about the formula. Is the formula
broken? Is the formula inequitable, so that it favors large
school districts despite low incidence of poverty? Does it
favor them over quite frankly the remaining school districts
that can have a significantly higher proportion of poverty? Is
the formula broken?
Secretary Cardona. Mr. Thompson, I will be happy to look at
that and hear more from you, and look into that, because I do
think----
Mr. Thompson. Well, I would encourage you, because your
Department actually conducted this, arranged for the study at
the direction of this Committee, and the study that came back
says that it is broken. It is inequitable, you know, is the--so
we need a formal--the formula for distribution really has been
affirmed by the work, the study that your Department led.
We need a remedy that is similar to legislation I have
introduced, that actually caused that study to occur called the
ACE Act, All Children are Equal. Certainly, equal in terms of
those that are living--so we are not--so it is the formula that
is broken at this point.
Moving on here, I also wanted to quickly touch on CTE
programs. As co-chair of the Career and Technical Education
Caucus, they are really a champion of Perkins V. I am proud of
the bipartisan work, the support that this committee has done
for students of all ages in terms of both academic and
technical skills.
Mr. Secretary, in the President's budget request, there is
a substantial increase for CTE national programs, and while I
have consistently supported robust funding for CTE programs
under the Perkins formula, I am concerned that this funding
would flow outside of this formula that so many schools rely
on. Has your Department encountered any issues with the Perkins
formula, and if not, why are you seeking to allocate additional
funds outside of it, outside of the Perkins formula?
Secretary Cardona. Sure, thank you for that. I just want to
followup on the previous question about rural education. We do
take that seriously. We have a new director of Rural
Engagement. We created a Rural Action Team, and I would be
happy to share more information with you.
Mr. Thompson. That is great.
Secretary Cardona. With regard to the Perkins program, that
is the--that is the foundation of the work that we are going to
be doing. We recognize, sir, that if we continue with the way
we are going, we are never going to meet the demand. We are
never going to meet the demand. What we need to do is not only
engage in supporting State grants through Perkins, but also
make sure that we are providing not only funding but support,
guidance and a push to evolve our high schools to create better
college and career pathways, to engage to our 2-year schools
and our workforce partners.
That has been very well-received in the states and the
districts when I have conversations with Governors, mayors,
school superintendents who want to do the right thing, school
boards, but they just need technical assistance to make sure
that their schools are evolving to meet the demand.
Mr. Thompson. Well, I think they need the Perkins V formula
assistance actually. As I visit these schools, these are
secondary education schools. These folks have waiting lists
today.
They have the programs. They are partnering with those who
sign in front of a paycheck, not the back of a paycheck to
provide the right type of education so that when these kids
graduate, they have got a diploma and certificates in one hand,
and quite frankly multiple job offers in the other. Let us not
mess this up by working outside the formula for Perkins V.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I apologize for the additional time.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Thompson. Mr. Scott, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Scott. Thank you, Madam, Chair, and thank you Mr.
Secretary for being with us. We have heard several references
to certain schools where virtually no one is up to standard.
What does ESSA do for schools like this? The solution we have
heard is that if you let a few people sneak out the back door,
they might take care of themselves, where the other 90 percent
of course are stuck in a bad school with less resources.
What does ESSA allow you to do, and what does your budget
do to these schools that are clearly failing?
Secretary Cardona. It allows for greater oversight and
accountability. It allows for us to engage more directly with
these districts, with these states, and where possible to
direct where funds are going to be used or partner with them to
build capacity to meet the needs of the students. As you said,
the answer is not to give students a lottery ticket to
somewhere else. It is to make sure that all schools are
performing at high levels.
I am proud of the work that we are doing to what we call
Raise the Bar around academic proficiency, reading and math,
civics history, sciences. We need to do better if our students
are going to be prepared for these jobs, and we have a plan,
sir. We have a plan to do that, and I am happy to share it with
anyone on the Committee that is interested in learning more.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. Now I think you have pointed out in
response to the decision to open schools during the pandemic,
that decision was made on a local and State basis, not on a
Federal basis. The Federal Government did provide money to make
that happen. You mentioned the ventilation systems in a lot of
schools had problems with PPE, transportation money, hired
nurses and counselors, catch up, hire extra tutors in summer
programs. Could you have--could these schools have opened
safely without the ARPA money?
Secretary Cardona. Across the country the schools relied on
the American Rescue Plan dollars. We are talking about
students, not Republican students, Democrat students or
parents. We are talking about the 50 million students in our K-
12 schools. I have heard from red communities, blue communities
that those dollars helped safely reopen school, get the
students the materials that they needed, provide compensatory
support after school.
There were more students in summer school programs this
summer than any other time in our country's history because of
the American Rescue Plan dollars. All students benefited from
it.
Mr. Scott. Thank you. We have heard about the cost of debt
cancellation, student debt cancellation and what it costs each
taxpayer. We did not hear the calculation for how much it costs
each taxpayer for the Trump tax cut, which was actually bigger,
with 80 percent of the benefits with the top 1 percent and
corporations. We have not heard that calculation.
We have dealt with the--you have dealt with the public
service loan forgiveness program. Under the Trump
administration, virtually no one earned a discharge when they
thought--because the program was so messed up. How many people
have benefited from the public service loan forgiveness under
your administration?
Secretary Cardona. Thank you. Well, when we came into our
positions, we were told fix this broken system, and part of
that was the public service loan forgiveness, intended for
teachers, for nurses, for police officers, for veterans, all
those people that we were calling essential 3 years ago today.
Well, from 2017 to 2021, when that program was in effect, 7,000
Americans benefited from it.
OK, we worked to fix that. From 2021 till today, over
600,000 people have taken advantage of it. Over $42 billion in
approved debt relief have been provided to teachers, to people
who choose public service. I would say it is working and it is
helping keep people in those professions that we need.
Mr. Scott. Well, we need to make sure the loan servicers
are doing their job to inform people of the appropriate program
they need to be in. I am not satisfied that they are doing what
they need to be doing. Are you aware of the Loan Act that
increases Pell grants and makes public service loan forgiveness
more generous and reduces interest rate? If not, if you could
have your staff review it and get back to us, we would
appreciate it.
Secretary Cardona. Will do.
Mr. Scott. I just wanted to express in the final seconds
the funding for mental health, Title I, early childhood
education, extracurricular activities, CTE as the gentleman
from Pennsylvania has mentioned, were all valuable, and we need
to be putting more money into those programs, not less as it
would be under the Republican cuts. Thank you so much for being
with us today.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Scott. I yield back.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you, Mr. Scott. Mr. Williams, you
are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Williams. Mr. Secretary, I understand it is your last
question. I admire you for your endurance, and I am told that
they--they raised the temperature as the hearing goes on to
simulate summer school, so I think that is where we are in the
cycle.
There are currently 56-57 million children K-12 in our
country today approximately. 90 percent of those are in our
public schools, and 10 percent are in other forms of education.
Over the last several years sir, we have seen, as has been well
documented and noted, a shocking decline in children's ability
to read at grade level, to perform math at grade level.
This is particularly concerning in my district, where we
have some of the poorest schools in our Nation, and has been
noted by my colleagues and others, I am certain that the
parents in these school districts, in the poorest of our school
districts love their children and have hope for their children
every bit as much as elsewhere. I have two fundamental
questions, sir. I come out of the military service early in my
career, and it was a very unforgiving environment of
accountability for leadership.
It concerns me that we could see such a precipitous drop in
the performance of our children and the concern that we all
share for what that means, not just for their lives but also
for society, for our culture, for our economy. What
accountability are you enforcing in your organization among
your leadership? To what degree are you holding them
responsible for this precipitous drop in performance of our
children?
Secretary Cardona. Yes, thank you for that question and
like you, I feel a great sense of urgency, of not only
recovering from the impact of the pandemic, but really looking
at the data from 2019 as unacceptable. Our students should be
achieving at the highest levels in the world. We have a plan to
address that, and our plan we call it Raise the Bar strategy. I
would be happy to share more information on it.
We are focusing relentlessly on literacy, numeracy,
improving STEM outcomes and giving students a well-rounded
education that prepares them for choices when they graduate,
whether it is career or college. With regard to accountability,
we are engaging regularly with states. We are monitoring their
assessment strategies, making sure that all students are being
accounted for. We collect data on disparities of students, and
make sure that we call out any disparities.
More than call out, because that does not change behaviors,
is really support and make sure that we are providing the best
technical assistance possible at the Department of Education.
Mr. Williams. If I may just bring it to a little bit more
to the point of my question, the accountability that I am
accustomed to is that leaders are held accountable, not the
states, not the schools, but leaders in your organization. What
plan do you have to hold the leadership of the Department of
Education accountable for this lapse, including going back to
2019 and before?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. Well, keep in mind that the data
decline has taken a couple of decades to get to where we are.
What we are doing is putting a plan in action that's focusing
on academic rigor, highly qualified teachers. If you look at
our plan, it is focusing on some of the root causes. We do not
have highly qualified teachers in some of our neediest areas.
We are focusing not only dollars but resources and our
technical assistance on improving that, literacy and numeracy.
We are also funding programs that support literacy and
numeracy. While we take responsibility and we have a plan for
it, we recognize that this has been decades in the making.
Mr. Williams. I appreciate that, and I look forward to
learning about your plan, but more importantly will be watching
for accountability. Last question hopefully of the day perhaps,
but yes, I believe that children and parents and families
deserve a choice in their education, and I would support a
model where the resources follow the child and not the
institutions, particularly when we find our institutions are
failing so broadly.
What pilot projects, what programs, what initiatives are a
part of your Department that follow this model of school choice
and where resources perhaps follow children, preferably in the
most underprivileged of our neighborhoods?
Secretary Cardona. Yes. We do support public charter
schools, and we have funding for that. Let me just close by
saying I take very seriously as a father, as an educator, my
responsibility for every child's learning in this country, and
I will never support a system that has winners and losers. All
students deserve to be in a high quality school, and every
parent should be able to select their local neighborhood school
as a high quality school.
That is the work of the Department of Education. That is
what I am committed to as Secretary. Thank you.
Mr. Williams. Thank you. I think school is out, and my time
has expired.
Secretary Cardona. Thank you.
Chairwoman Foxx. Thank you very much. I believe that takes
care of all the members who were here who wished to ask
questions. Secretary Cardona, I thank you again for coming to
testify before the Committee today. I thank you again for your
patience as we went to vote, and without objection, there being
no further business, the Committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 2:59 p.m., the Committee adjourned.]
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