[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                   FAA REAUTHORIZATION: EXAMINING THE CU-
                    RRENT AND FUTURE CHALLENGES FACING THE 
                    AEROSPACE WORKFORCE

=======================================================================

                                (118-13)

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                            SUBCOMMITTEE ON
                                AVIATION

                                 OF THE

                              COMMITTEE ON
                   TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             APRIL 19, 2023

                               __________

                       Printed for the use of the
             Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
             
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     Available online at: https://www.govinfo.gov/committee/house-
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                             transportation
                             
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
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             COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

  Sam Graves, Missouri, Chairman
Rick Larsen, Washington,             Eric A. ``Rick'' Crawford, 
  Ranking Member                     Arkansas
Eleanor Holmes Norton,               Daniel Webster, Florida
  District of Columbia               Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Grace F. Napolitano, California      Scott Perry, Pennsylvania
Steve Cohen, Tennessee               Brian Babin, Texas
John Garamendi, California           Garret Graves, Louisiana
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Georgiavid Rouzer, North Carolina
Andre Carson, Indiana                Mike Bost, Illinois
Dina Titus, Nevada                   Doug LaMalfa, California
Jared Huffman, California            Bruce Westerman, Arkansas
Julia Brownley, California           Brian J. Mast, Florida
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida         Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon,
Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey       Puerto Rico
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Pete Stauber, Minnesota
Salud O. Carbajal, California        Tim Burchett, Tennessee
Greg Stanton, Arizona,               Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
  Vice Ranking Member                Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey,
Colin Z. Allred, Texas                 Vice Chairman
Sharice Davids, Kansas               Troy E. Nehls, Texas
Jesus G. ``Chuy'' Garcia, Illinois   Lance Gooden, Texas
Chris Pappas, New Hampshire          Tracey Mann, Kansas
Seth Moulton, Massachusetts          Burgess Owens, Utah
Jake Auchincloss, Massachusetts      Rudy Yakym III, Indiana
Marilyn Strickland, Washington       Lori Chavez-DeRemer, Oregon
Troy A. Carter, Louisiana            Chuck Edwards, North Carolina
Patrick Ryan, New York               Thomas H. Kean, Jr., New Jersey
Mary Sattler Peltola, Alaska         Anthony D'Esposito, New York
Robert Menendez, New Jersey          Eric Burlison, Missouri
Val T. Hoyle, Oregon                 John James, Michigan
Emilia Strong Sykes, Ohio            Derrick Van Orden, Wisconsin
Hillary J. Scholten, Michigan        Brandon Williams, New York
Valerie P. Foushee, North Carolina   Marcus J. Molinaro, New York
                                     Mike Collins, Georgia
                                     Mike Ezell, Mississippi
                                     John S. Duarte, California
                                     Aaron Bean, Florida

                        Subcommittee on Aviation

Garret Graves, Louisiana, Chairman
Steve Cohen, Tennessee, Ranking Memberric A. ``Rick'' Crawford, 
Henry C. ``Hank'' Johnson, Jr., Georgiakansas
Andre Carson, Indiana                Thomas Massie, Kentucky
Julia Brownley, California           Scott Perry, Pennsylvania
Mark DeSaulnier, California          Bruce Westerman, Arkansas
Greg Stanton, Arizona                Brian J. Mast, Florida
Colin Z. Allred, Texas               Pete Stauber, Minnesota
Sharice Davids, Kansas               Tim Burchett, Tennessee
Jesus G. ``Chuy'' Garcia, Illinois   Dusty Johnson, South Dakota
Jake Auchincloss, Massachusetts      Jefferson Van Drew, New Jersey
Mary Sattler Peltola, Alaska,        Lance Gooden, Texas
  Vice Ranking Member                Tracey Mann, Kansas
Hillary J. Scholten, Michigan        Burgess Owens, Utah
Dina Titus, Nevada                   Rudy Yakym III, Indiana, Vice 
Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey     Chairman
Salud O. Carbajal, California        Lori Chavez-DeRemer, Oregon
Robert Menendez, New Jersey          Thomas H. Kean, Jr., New Jersey
Eleanor Holmes Norton,               Anthony D'Esposito, New York
  District of Columbia               John James, Michigan
Frederica S. Wilson, Florida         Marcus J. Molinaro, New York
Rick Larsen, Washington (Ex Officio) Mike Collins, Georgia
                                     Aaron Bean, Florida
                                     Sam Graves, Missouri (Ex Officio)

                                CONTENTS

                                                                   Page

Summary of Subject Matter........................................   vii

                 STATEMENTS OF MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE

Hon. Garret Graves, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of Louisiana, and Chairman, Subcommittee on Aviation, opening 
  statement......................................................     1
    Prepared statement...........................................     3
Hon. Steve Cohen, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Tennessee, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Aviation, 
  opening statement..............................................     4
    Prepared statement...........................................     5
Hon. Sam Graves, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Missouri, and Chairman, Committee on Transportation and 
  Infrastructure, opening statement..............................     6
    Prepared statement...........................................     8
Hon. Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Washington, and Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation and 
  Infrastructure, opening statement..............................     9
    Prepared statement...........................................    10

                               WITNESSES

Faye Malarkey Black, President and Chief Executive Officer, 
  Regional Airline Association, oral statement...................    12
    Prepared statement...........................................    14
Sharon B. DeVivo, Ed.D., President, Vaughn College, oral 
  statement......................................................    29
    Prepared statement...........................................    31
Brad Thress, President and Chief Executive Officer, FlightSafety 
  International, oral statement..................................    34
    Prepared statement...........................................    35
Heather Krause, Director, Physical Infrastructure, U.S. 
  Government Accountability Office, oral statement...............    39
    Prepared statement...........................................    41
Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, Air Line Pilots Association, 
  International, oral statement..................................    49
    Prepared statement...........................................    51

                       SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD

Letter of April 18, 2023, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. 
  Rick Larsen, Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation and 
  Infrastructure, and Hon. Garret Graves, Chairman, and Hon. 
  Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Aviation, from a 
  former Administrator and Acting Administrator of the Federal 
  Aviation Administration, Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rudy 
  Yakym III......................................................    62
Submissions for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen:
    Statement of Captain Larry Rooney, President, Coalition of 
      Airline Pilots Associations................................    70
    Statement of Captain Casey Murray, President, Southwest 
      Airlines Pilots Association................................    71
    Letter of April 18, 2023, from Robert Rockmaker, President 
      and Chief Executive Officer, Flight School Association of 
      North America..............................................    73
    Press Release of April 19, 2023, from Ambassador Sully 
      Sullenberger...............................................    74
    Statement of the Association of Professional Flight 
      Attendants.................................................   109
    Letter of April 19, 2023, from the Families of Continental 
      Flight 3407................................................   111
    Press Release of April 19, 2023, from the Transportation 
      Trades Department, AFL-CIO.................................   113
Speech of Captain John Prater, Then-President, Air Line Pilots 
  Association, International, Before the Aero Club, July 19, 
  2010, Submitted for the Record by Hon. Troy E. Nehls...........    77
Submissions for the Record by Hon. Garret Graves:
    Statement of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association......   105
    Letter of May 4, 2023, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. 
      Rick Larsen, Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation 
      and Infrastructure, and Hon. Garret Graves, Chairman, and 
      Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Aviation, 
      from Airports Council International-North America et al....   108

                                APPENDIX

Question from Hon. Greg Stanton to Faye Malarkey Black, President 
  and Chief Executive Officer, Regional Airline Association......   115
Question from Hon. Greg Stanton to Sharon B. DeVivo, Ed.D., 
  President, Vaughn College......................................   115
Questions to Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, Air Line Pilots 
  Association, International, from:
    Hon. Greg Stanton............................................   116
    Hon. Troy E. Nehls...........................................   116

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                             April 14, 2023

    SUMMARY OF SUBJECT MATTER

    TO:      LMembers, Subcommittee on Aviation
    FROM:  LStaff, Subcommittee on Aviation
    RE:      LSubcommittee Hearing on ``FAA Reauthorization: 
Examining the Current and Future Challenges Facing the 
Aerospace Workforce''
_______________________________________________________________________


                               I. PURPOSE

    The Subcommittee on Aviation will meet on Wednesday, April 
19, 2023, at 10:00 a.m. ET in 2167 Rayburn House Office 
Building for a hearing titled, ``FAA Reauthorization: Examining 
the Current and Future Challenges Facing the Aerospace 
Workforce.'' The hearing will examine the current state of the 
United States' aerospace workforce, challenges facing future 
industry needs, implementation of the workforce-related 
provisions in the 2018 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) 
reauthorization law, and proposed solutions designed to address 
ongoing challenges in advance of Congress reauthorizing the 
FAA's statutory authorities which expire on October 1, 2023. 
The Subcommittee will receive testimony from the Regional 
Airline Association (RAA); Vaughn College of Aeronautics and 
Technology; FlightSafety International (FSI); the Government 
and Accountability Office (GAO); and the Air Line Pilots 
Association, International.

                             II. BACKGROUND

    Civil air transportation significantly contributes to 
domestic and international economies. A recent FAA report notes 
that in 2019, civil aviation contributed 4.9 percent of the 
United States gross domestic product (GDP), generated $1.9 
trillion in total economic activity, and supported nearly 10.4 
million United States jobs.\1\ Although the COVID-19 pandemic 
effectively reduced these values by an estimated 50 percent in 
2020, air transportation traffic in North America continues to 
grow and is expected to exceed pre-pandemic levels this year, 
ahead of some other markets.\2\
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    \1\ FAA, The Economic Impact of U.S. Civil Aviation: 2020 (Aug. 
2022) available at https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2022-08/
2022-APL-038%202022_economic%20impact_report.pdf.
    \2\ See id.; Press Release, Internat'l Air Transp. Assoc'n, Air 
Travel Growth Continues in February, (Apr. 4, 2023) available at 
https://www.iata.org/en/pressroom/2023-releases/2023-04-04-02/; News 
Release, ICAO forecasts complete and sustainable recovery and growth of 
air passenger demand in 2023, (Feb. 8, 2023), available at https://
www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/ICAO-forecasts-complete-and-sustainable-
recovery-and-growth-of-air-passenger-demand-in-2023.aspx.
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    According to the FAA, United States air carrier domestic 
passenger growth is forecasted to average 4.7 percent per year 
over the next 20 years.\3\ This average projected growth 
includes double digit growth in 2022 and 2023, prompting some 
aviation stakeholders to raise concerns about whether there 
will be sufficient workers to meet both present-day and future 
demand. A recent industry report concluded that ``tight labor 
market conditions go beyond having enough crews for flights; it 
also reflects staffing problems in the ranks of ground staff, 
baggage handlers, air traffic controllers, Transportation 
Security Administration agents, and vendors that help supply 
airlines and airports.'' \4\ Additionally, the same report 
noted there were not enough people to repair aircraft and 
highlighted that executives in the aircraft maintenance and 
repair industry identified finding new hires as their biggest 
challenge.\5\
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    \3\ FAA, FAA Aerospace Forecast Fiscal Years 2022-2042 at 2 (June 
28, 2022), available at https://www.faa.gov/sites/faa.gov/files/2022-
06/FY2022_42_FAA_Aerospace_Forecast.pdf.
    \4\ As leisure travel recovers to 2019 levels, airlines struggle to 
match the rebound's intensity, according to Oliver Wyman, Oliver Wyman, 
(June 7, 2022), available at https://www.oliverwyman.com/media-center/
2022/jun/as-leisure-travel-recovers-airlines-struggle-to-match-
rebounds-intensity.html?bsrc=oliverwyman.
    \5\ Id.
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    The rate of attrition and retirements across the aerospace 
workforce also present challenges, the latter of which 
particularly exacerbated by the pandemic. For instance, the 
Youth Access to American Jobs in Aviation Task Force (YIATF) 
highlighted in its September 2022 report that the aviation 
industry, ``an industry with 50,000 unfilled positions[,] is 
losing staff at a rate six percent higher than other sectors 
and at the same time is losing out in recruiting new talent due 
to factors including a failure to compete with tech companies' 
pay rates.'' \6\ Although the air transportation sector faced 
an unparalleled need for talent, especially for pilots, before 
the COVID-19 pandemic, the workforce challenges facing the 
industry today are more acute across the board than ever 
before.\7\ Congress must examine challenges facing the 
aerospace workforce and explore opportunities to address those 
challenges to ensure the aerospace workforce is capable of 
meeting demand for decades to come.
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    \6\ FAA, Youth Access to American Jobs in Aviation Task Force, 
Final Report, (Sept. 22, 2022) [hereinafter YIATF Report], available at 
https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/committees/
documents/media/YIATF_Taskforce_Report%209-22-22%20FINAL.pdf.
    \7\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-14-232, Aviation Workforce: 
Current and Future Availability of Airline Pilots, (2014), available at 
https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-232; YIATF Report, supra note 6.
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  III. KEY AEROSPACE OCCUPATION PROFILES AND ISSUES FOR CONSIDERATION

    The civil aviation sector relies on a highly skilled and 
largely certified workforce that includes pilots, maintenance 
and repair technicians, aircraft and component manufacturers, 
engineers, aircraft schedulers and dispatchers, and air traffic 
controllers. Though the breadth of aviation professionals goes 
beyond those professions listed, this hearing will focus on 
airline pilots and aircraft mechanics, as these professions are 
heavily regulated, require significant training and experience 
to achieve FAA certification, and are essential to the safe 
operation of the National Airspace System (NAS).

AIRLINE PILOT WORKFORCE

    The career path to becoming a United States airline pilot 
requires an individual to not only satisfy FAA training and 
instruction requirements, but also obtain qualifying flight 
experience. Present-day demand is strong, as is evidenced by 
hiring rates.\8\ Both mainline and regional pilot pay has 
increased in recent years; in 2021, the median wage for airline 
and commercial pilots was $134,630.\9\ Moreover, the Bureau of 
Labor Statistics (BLS) projects the overall employment of 
airline and commercial pilots to grow six percent from 2021 to 
2031.\10\
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    \8\ David Koenig, A nationwide pilot shortage is straining air 
travel, Los Angeles Times (Feb. 10, 2023), available at https://
www.latimes.com/business/story/2023-02-10/a-nationwide-pilot-shortage-
is-straining-air-travel.
    \9\ U.S. Bureau of Labor Stat., Department of Labor, Occupational 
Outlook Handbook, Airline and Commercial Pilots, available at https://
www.bls.gov/ooh/Transportation-and-Material-Moving/Airline-and-
commercial-pilots.htm.
    \10\ Id.
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PILOT TRAINING AND COSTS

    Individuals training to become a pilot can undertake their 
pilot education and training at a collegiate aviation school, a 
non-collegiate vocational pilot school, or a non-collegiate, 
instructor-based pilot school.\11\ In addition, the military 
trains and certificates pilots, many of whom pursue careers as 
airline pilots upon exiting the military.\12\ However, former 
military pilots make up fewer new hires at airlines today than 
they once did, especially as the military is currently facing 
its own challenges recruiting pilots.\13\ Though the costs of 
training vary greatly based on the training pathway chosen and 
the time it takes to complete training, one of the largest 
vocational flight schools estimates that it costs $96,995 to 
become a pilot if an individual has no previous flight 
experience.\14\ On the collegiate front, a 2018 GAO report 
cited that tuition costs for a professional pilot student can 
often exceed $100,000.\15\
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    \11\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-18-403, Collegiate 
Aviation Schools: Stakeholder's Views on Challenges for Initial Pilot 
Training Programs, (2018), available at https://www.gao.gov/assets/gao-
18-403.pdf.
    \12\ See supra note 8.
    \13\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-14-232, Aviation 
Workforce: Current and Future Availability of Airline Pilots, (2014), 
available at https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-14-232; Rachel Cohen, 
Perennial pilot paucity puts Air Force in precarious position, Air 
Force Times (Mar. 3, 2023), available at https://www.airforcetimes.com/
news/your-air-force/2023/03/03/perennial-pilot-shortage-puts-air-force-
in-precarious-position/.
    \14\ ATP, How Much Does it Cost to Become a Pilot?, (accessed Apr. 
3, 2023), available at https://atpflightschool.com/become-a-pilot/
flight-training/pilot-training-cost.html.
    \15\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-18-403, supra note 11.
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    Upon completion of training and passage of the requisite 
FAA tests, an individual can obtain a pilot certificate.\16\ To 
obtain a commercial pilot certificate--which is required for an 
individual to fly aircraft for compensation for non-airline 
pilot jobs--they typically must have flown a minimum of 250 
total flight hours.\17\ To be eligible for hire as either a 
pilot-in-command (captain) or second-in-command (first officer) 
for a United States scheduled airline, an individual must also 
obtain an airline transport pilot (ATP) certificate, the 
highest level of pilot certification, in addition to their 
other certificates and ratings.\18\ An ATP certificate requires 
an individual to have obtained at least 1,500 flight hours. 
Current regulations allow for but restrict the number of these 
flight hours that can be accrued in a full flight simulator or 
through the usage of a flight training device to not more than 
100 hours if the aeronautical experience was accomplished as 
part of an approved training course.\19\ Some pilots with fewer 
than 1,500 flight hours can obtain a ``restricted-privileges'' 
ATP certificate (R-ATP), under which specific academic training 
courses and military experience can count toward the flight 
hour requirement.\20\ If a pilot holds an R-ATP certificate, 
they may be hired as a first officer by a Part 121 airline; 
however, they cannot be a captain until they obtain an ATP 
certificate after accumulating 1,500 hours total flight 
hours.\21\
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    \16\ Id.
    \17\ 14 C.F.R. Sec.  61.129 (2023).
    \18\ 14 C.F.R. Sec.  121.436 (2023).
    \19\ 14 C.F.R. Sec.  61.159 (2023).
    \20\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-18-403, supra note 11.
    \21\ See supra note 13.
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    The standards for obtaining pilot certificates in the 
United States have changed little since implementation of the 
bipartisan Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration 
Extension Act of 2010 (P.L. 111-216), which mandated a minimum 
of 1,500-flight hours to obtain an ATP certificate and directed 
the FAA to amend regulations to require all first officers to 
have an ATP certificate.\22\ The FAA subsequently adopted the 
1,500-flight hour requirement in 2013.\23\ These changes and 
many others followed the Colgan Air flight 3407 crash near 
Buffalo Niagara International Airport, NY, in 2009, which 
killed 50 people.
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    \22\ Pub. Law No. 111-216, 124 Stat. 2348.
    \23\ 78 Fed. Reg. 42324 (July 15, 2013).
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    The standards for obtaining a certificate to conduct 
commercial, passenger carrying operations in the United States 
differ vastly from the professional pilot certification 
pathways adopted internationally. For instance, the 
International Civil Aviation Organization's (ICAO) multi-crew 
pilot (MPL) certificate, adopted in 2006, enables pilots to 
become a first officer in approximately 18 months, with a 
minimum of 240 hours of total actual and simulated flight 
hours. ICAO does not specify the breakdown between actual and 
simulated flight hours and thus allows part of the training 
curriculum to be accounted for on flight simulators; however, 
MPL-holders must also meet all the actual flying time for a 
private pilot license, plus additional actual flying time in 
instrument, night flying, and upset recovery.\24\
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    \24\ ICAO, Personnel Licensing FAQ, available at https://
www.icao.int/safety/airnavigation/pages/peltrgfaq.aspx#anchor24.
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    Regarding pilot training and competency requirements, some 
aviation stakeholders argue that certain requirements result in 
pilots accruing flight hours that are not directly relevant to 
a complex, multi-crew airline environment or may create 
barriers to entry into this career.\25\ Other stakeholders, 
notably pilot unions, contend that the present-day first 
officer qualifications are appropriate and that United States 
air carriers should alternatively do more to recruit and retain 
pilots.\26\ A recent position paper summarized that the 
``commercial aviation industry is at a crossroads, and the 
practices it adopts now relative to how the pilots of the 
future are selected, trained and mentored will have critical 
safety ramifications during a period of projected rapid global 
growth.'' \27\
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    \25\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-18-403, supra note 11.
    \26\ Strengthening the Aviation Workforce: Hearing Before the S. 
Comm. on Commerce, Science and Transportation, 118th Congress (March 
2023) (statement of Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, Air Line Pilots 
Association, Int'l).
    \27\ Flight Safety Foundation, Position Paper: Pilot Training and 
Competency, (Mar.2018), available at https://flightsafety.org/wp-
content/uploads/2018/03/FSF-position-paper-pilot-training-and-
competency-FINAL-03-01-18.pdf.
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PILOT SUPPLY AND OUTLOOK

    The number of individuals qualified to become airline 
pilots has increased from 2017 through 2022 by about 3,000, 
from 144,557 to 147,934 certificates.\28\ The number of new ATP 
certificates issued each year over the 2017 to 2022 time period 
increased by more than 100 percent, from 4,449 to 9,588.\29\ 
Despite the uptick in supply of qualified individuals, there is 
growing concern about whether the growth will be substantial 
enough to cover both an anticipated increase in industry demand 
and the wave of pending retirements the industry will face over 
the next decade.\30\ In 2021, one industry analyst noted in a 
2021 article that FAA data reflected a third of all active ATP-
rated pilots will be forced to retire over the next 10 
years.\31\ A more recent industry forecast anticipates a 
shortfall of 17,000 pilots in 2032.\32\
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    \28\ FAA, U.S. Civil Airmen Statistics (last updated Jan. 19, 2023) 
available at https://www.faa.gov/data_research/
aviation_data_statistics/civil_airmen_statistics.
    \29\ Id.
    \30\ Geoff Murray & Rory Heilakka, The airline pilot shortage will 
get worse, Oliver Wyman, available at https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-
expertise/insights/2022/jul/airline-pilot-shortage-will-get-worse.html.
    \31\ Courtney Miller, A very real pilot shortage threatens to upend 
the U.S. airline recovery, The Air Current, (Oct. 28, 2021), available 
at https://theaircurrent.com/analysis/real-pilot-shortage-threatens-us-
airline-recovery/.
    \32\ Geoff Murray, Rory Heilakka, Daniel Rye, and Lindsay Grant, 
Industry efforts are easing pilot shortage severity, Oliver Wyman, 
available at https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2023/
jan/industry-efforts-easing-pilot-shortage-severity.html.
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INDUSTRY INITIATIVES

    To improve the long-term supply outlook for airline pilots, 
several major airline carriers have recently launched flight 
training programs and career pathways to boost pilot supply and 
supplement hiring initiatives. For example, United Airlines 
launched its own flight training school in January 2022, the 
Aviate Academy, becoming the first major United States carrier 
to own a flight school.\33\ Through the Aviate Academy, United 
Airlines aims to train 5,000 new pilots by 2030.\34\ Other 
airline industry initiatives include American Airlines' Cadet 
Academy and Delta's Propel Program--which strive to bolster the 
pool of qualified airline pilots.
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    \33\ Jessica Poitevien, United Airlines Becomes the First Major 
U.S. Carrier to Open Its Own Flight School, Travel + Leisure, (Oct. 16, 
2022), available at https://www.travelandleisure.com/airlines-airports/
united-airlines/united-airlines-opens-flight-school-aviate-academy.
    \34\ Id.
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AVIATION MAINTENANCE WORKFORCE

    The aviation maintenance technician (AMT) workforce 
generally falls into two categories: (1) certificated mechanics 
and service technicians (repairmen) and (2) avionics 
technicians.\35\ Aviation maintenance workers are generally 
employed by commercial airlines, repair stations, and aircraft 
manufacturers. According to BLS data, the median annual wage in 
May 2021 was $65,380 for aircraft mechanics and service 
technicians and $69,280 for avionics technicians.\36\ The 
overall employment of aircraft and avionics equipment mechanics 
and technicians, according to BLS, is projected to grow six 
percent from 2021 to 2031.\37\
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    \35\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-20-206, Aviation 
Maintenance: Additional Coordination and Data Could Advance FAA Efforts 
To Promote a Robust, Diverse Workforce, (2020), available at https://
www.gao.gov/assets/gao-20-206.pdf.
    \36\ BLS, Department Of Labor, Occupational Outlook Handbook, 
Aircraft and Avionics Equipment Mechanics and Technicians, available at 
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/installation-maintenance-and-repair/aircraft-
and-avionics-equipment-mechanics-and-technicians.htm.
    \37\ Id.
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TRAINING AND COSTS

    In general, it can take between one and three years of 
education or training to become a FAA-certificated mechanic and 
earn an airframe rating, a powerplant rating, or an airframe 
and powerplant (A&P) rating.\38\ There are generally three ways 
to become eligible to take the AMT knowledge test to become a 
FAA-certificated mechanic: (1) military training and 
experience; (2) AMT schools; and (3) practical work experience 
under the supervision of a certificated mechanic.\39\ 
Practical, on the job training is the most inexpensive method 
for gaining the required experience to become a certificated 
mechanic, according to the FAA.\40\ Tuition at an AMT school, 
an educational facility certificated by the FAA in accordance 
with Part 147 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, can vary 
based on a program, but the average cost for an A&P program in 
2022 was $17,754.\41\
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    \38\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-20-206, supra note 35.
    \39\ Id.
    \40\ FAA. Experience Requirements to Become an Aircraft Mechanic, 
(December 2022), available at https://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/
experience.
    \41\ Aviation Technician Education Council, 2022 Pipeline Report & 
Aviation Maintenance Technician School Directory, (Nov. 2022), https://
www.atec-amt.org/uploads/1/0/7/5/10756256/atec-pipelinereport-2022.pdf 
[hereinafter 2022 Pipeline Report].
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    FAA-certificated repairmen service aircraft components and 
must be recommended for certification by their existing 
employer to perform specific tasks, like welding or 
painting.\42\ It can take a repairman more than a year to 
obtain the required experience or training to become 
certificated. Unlike certificated mechanics, a repairman's 
certificate is only valid at the employer for which it was 
issued.\43\ Additionally, only FAA-certificated mechanics can 
approve an aircraft for return to service. Mechanics and 
repairman who are not certificated may still perform repair 
work, but they must be supervised by an FAA-certificated 
mechanic or repairman.\44\
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    \42\ U.S. Gov't Accountability Off., GAO-20-206, supra note 35.
    \43\ Id.
    \44\ FAA, Become a Mechanic Frequently Asked Questions, (July 
2022), available at https://www.faa.gov/mechanics/become/faq.
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    Avionics technicians generally install, inspect, test, or 
repair avionics equipment, such as radar, radio, navigation, 
and missile control systems in aircraft and space vehicles.\45\ 
There is no required test to become an avionics technician, but 
the technician may hold an A&P, repairman, or related FAA 
certificate.\46\ Furthermore, employers may have additional 
qualification requirements for individuals that work on 
avionics.\47\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \45\ GAO-20-206, supra note 35.
    \46\ Id.
    \47\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

TECHNICIAN SUPPLY AND OUTLOOK

    According to FAA data, the number of newly-issued mechanic 
certificates increased 11 percent from 2017-2022, from 6,398 to 
7,119 certificates respectively.\48\ Despite the increase in 
newly issued certificates, the total number of certificated 
mechanics has remained relatively flat over the past two 
decades.\49\ It is projected that by 2031, two out of every 
five current mechanics--more than 90,000 certificated mechanics 
in total--will reach retirement age.\50\ Using historical 
output data, the Aviation Technician Education Council (ATEC) 
estimates that 79,000 mechanics will enter the industry in the 
next 10 years, approximately 11,000 workers short of replacing 
the expected retirements over the period.\51\ Furthermore, a 
recent ATEC report found that civil aviation maintenance sector 
only captures an estimated 10 percent of military members with 
aviation experience as they transition to civilian life.\52\ 
Should forecasted demand over the same period materialize, as 
driven by industry growth, the mechanic population is expected 
to fall short nearly 30,000 mechanics to meet commercial 
aviation needs.\53\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \48\ FAA, U.S. Civil Airmen Statistics, supra note 28.
    \49\ 2022 Pipeline Report, supra note 41.
    \50\ Id.
    \51\ Id.
    \52\ Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association, 2023 FAA 
Reauthorization Priorities (Aug. 2022), (letter on file, House Comm. on 
Transp. and Infrastructure, Subcomm. on Aviation).
    \53\ 2022 Pipeline Report, supra note 41.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

INDUSTRY INITIATIVES

    Industry stakeholders and airline operators have 
established pathway programs to better recruit and retain 
mechanics in the aviation industry. For instance, the JetBlue 
Gateways program offers opportunities to current crewmembers 
interested in pursuing a career as a mechanic.\54\ In August 
2021, AAR, a Chicago-based aviation maintenance and repair 
company, partnered with the Corporation for Skilled Workforce 
to create a program at schools located near its repair stations 
to demonstrate how students can learn skills leading to 
multiple career paths at the company.\55\ To hire 2,000 
mechanics over the next decade, Delta is providing $350,000 in 
grants to nine aviation high schools around the country to help 
expand its workforce.\56\ Other career development initiatives 
include apprenticeship programs. A recent industry survey found 
that apprenticeship programs are the most effective way to 
attract and retain talent, with 60 percent of respondents 
rating apprenticeship programs as very effective or extremely 
effective.\57\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \54\ JetBlue, JetBlue Gateways, available at https://
www.jetbluegateways.com/.
    \55\ Lindsay Bjerregaard, AAR Plans For Expected Ramp-Up In 
Workforce Demand, Aviation Week, (Aug. 2020), available at https://
aviationweek.com/mro/workforce-training/aar-plans-expected-ramp-
workforce-demand.
    \56\ Leslie Josephs, College of $70,000 a year? Aviation Industry 
scrambles for mechanics as retirements loom, CNBC. (Sept. 2018), 
available at https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/03/airlines-search-for-young-
mechanics-as-retirement-wave-looms.html.
    \57\ Derek Costanza and Brian Prentice, Recover and Rebuild Toward 
a Leaner, More Agile MRO Industry, Oliver Wyman, available at https://
www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2021/apr/mro-maintenance-
repair-overhaul-survey-2021.html.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

               IV. CONGRESSIONAL MANDATES AND INITIATIVES

AVIATION WORKFORCE DEVELOPMENT GRANTS

    Section 625 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018 
(FAARA18; P.L. 115-254) authorized $5 million for a pilot 
workforce development program and $5 million for an aviation 
maintenance technician workforce development program.\58\ This 
workforce development program has enjoyed broad support from 
many aviation stakeholders, as it encourages collaboration 
between government, industry, and local entities to address 
skills gaps and encourage more Americans to pursue good-paying 
careers in aviation. Several stakeholders have touted the 
success of the program but are concerned that it is 
oversubscribed. The FAA received more than 300 grant 
applications in the initial funding round for the two programs 
but was only able to award 31 total grants.\59\ Many aviation 
stakeholders have expressed interest in continuing and 
potentially expanding this program in the upcoming FAA 
reauthorization bill.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \58\ Pub. L. No. 115-254 Sec.  625, 132 Stat. 3405.
    \59\ FAA Briefing by Sean Torpey, Executive Director for National 
Engagement and Regional Administration, to H. Minority Comm. on Transp. 
and Infrastructure Staff, (Oct. 25, 2022, 2:00 PM EST) (slides on file 
with Comm.).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

YOUTH ACCESS TO AMERICAN JOBS IN AVIATION TASK FORCE AND THE WOMEN IN 
                    AVIATION ADVISORY BOARD

    There were several other provisions in the FAARA18 targeted 
toward recruiting and retaining more young people and women to 
pursue careers in the aviation industry. Section 602 of the law 
directed the FAA to establish the Youth Access to American Jobs 
in Aviation Task Force. The task force was required to provide 
recommendations and strategies to the FAA to facilitate and 
encourage high school students to enroll in high school career 
and technical courses.\60\ In September 2022, the Task Force 
released its final report, providing 21 recommendations to 
Congress, the FAA, and the aviation industry.\61\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \60\ Pub. L. No. 115-254 Sec.  602, 132 Stat. 3400.
    \61\ YIATF Report, supra note 7.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Section 612 of the law directed the FAA to create the Women 
in Aviation Advisory Board, which was tasked with ``promoting 
organizations and programs that are providing education, 
training, mentorship, outreach and recruitment of women in the 
aviation industry.'' \62\ In May 2020, the Department of 
Transportation (DOT) announced the appointment of 30 members to 
the advisory board.\63\ The report issued by the Advisory Board 
in March 2022 provides, among other things, 55 recommendations 
to DOT, FAA, Congress, and the aviation industry on how to 
address barriers to recruiting, retaining, and advancing women 
in aviation.\64\ Several stakeholders have requested that the 
Board be made permanent.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \62\ Pub. L. No. 115-254 Sec.  612, 132 Stat. 3402.
    \63\ DOT, U.S. Transportation Secretary Elaine L. Chao Appoints 
Industry Leaders to Women in Aviation Advisory Board, (May 15, 2020), 
https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/us-transportation-
secretary-elaine-l-chao-appoints-industry-leaders-women-aviation.
    \64\ FAA, Women in Aviation Advisory Board, Final Report, (Mar. 28, 
2022), available at https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/
rulemaking/committees/documents/media/
WIAAB_Recommendations_Report_March_2022.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS COLLEGIATE TRAINING INITIATIVE (UAS-CTI)

    Sections 631 and 632 of the FAARA18 directed the FAA to 
establish a collegiate training initiative program relating to 
UAS by partnering with institutions of higher education to 
prepare students for careers in the UAS sector.\65\ 
Additionally, the law directed the FAA to designate a consortia 
of public, two-year institutions of higher education as 
Community and Technical College Centers of Excellence in Small 
UAS Technology Training.\66\ To comply with these requirements, 
the FAA launched the UAS Collegiate Training Initiative (UAS-
CTI) program in April 2020. Under the program, ``participating 
institutions will engage with the FAA, each other, general 
industry, local governments, law enforcement, and regional 
economic development entities to address labor force needs'' to 
help provide students with the ``skills needed to pursue a 
successful career in a UAS-related field.'' \67\ The FAA has 
approved curricula for 111 schools under the program to 
date.\68\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \65\ P.L. 115-254 Sec.  631, 632.
    \66\ Id.
    \67\ FAA, More Schools Join the Collegiate Training Initiative, 
(Sept. 2020), available at https://www.faa.gov/news/updates/
?newsId=95838.
    \68\ FAA, UAS Collegiate Training Initiative (April 23, 2023), 
available at https://www.faa.gov/uas/educational_users/
collegiate_training_initiative.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

STUDENT OUTREACH REPORT

    Section 601 of the FAARA18 directed the FAA to submit a 
report to Congress describing the agency's outreach efforts to 
elementary and secondary students interested in STEM careers in 
order to prepare them for aviation- and aeronautical-related 
careers and mitigate the anticipated shortage of pilots and 
other aviation professionals.\69\ The FAA completed the report 
and submitted it to Congress in September 2019.\70\ In the 
report, the FAA highlighted a 20 percent increase in the number 
of outreach representatives and a 50 percent increase in the 
number of its outreach events.\71\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \69\ Pub. Law No. 115-254 Sec.  601, 132 Stat. 3400.
    \70\ FAA, Section 601 Youth in Aviation Student Outreach Report, 
available at https://www.faa.gov/about/plans_reports/congress/media/
Section_601_Youth_in_Aviation_
Student_Outreach_Report.pdf.
    \71\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAA CYBERSECURITY WORKFORCE REPORT

    Section 549 of the FAARA18 required the National Academy of 
Sciences to study the FAA's cybersecurity workforce and develop 
recommendations to ``increase the size, quality, and diversity 
of such workforce, including cybersecurity researchers and 
specialists.'' \72\ The report was released in June 2021.\73\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \72\ Pub. Law No. 115-254 Sec.  549, 132 Stat. 3378.
    \73\ National Academies of Science, Engineering, and Medicine, 
Looking Ahead at the Cybersecurity Workforce at the Federal Aviation 
Administration, (June 2021), available at https://www.nap.edu/resource/
26105/FAA%20Cybersecurity.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

FAA TECHNICAL WORKFORCE REPORT

    Section 569 of the FAARA18 directed the FAA to submit a 
report to Congress describing the progress made toward 
implementing the agency's action plan to attract, develop, and 
retain a talented workforce in the areas of systems 
engineering, architecture, systems integration, digital 
communications, and cybersecurity.\74\ The FAA completed the 
report and submitted it to Congress in October 2020.\75\ Among 
its recommendations, the report called on the FAA to focus on 
recruiting youth to build the agency's pipeline of technical 
talent, including high school and middle school students.\76\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \74\ Pub. Law No. 115-254 Sec.  569, 132 Stat. 3386.
    \75\ FAA, Section 569 Report on Attracting, Developing, Training, 
and Retaining FAA's Technical Workforce, available at https://
www.faa.gov/about/plans_reports/congress/media/
Report_Congress_FAA_Technical_Workforce_Sec569.pdf.
    \76\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

                              V. WITNESSES

     LFaye Malarkey Black, President and Chief 
Executive Officer, Regional Airline Association
     LDr. Sharon B. DeVivo, President, Vaughn College 
of Aeronautics and Technology
     LBrad Thress, President and Chief Executive 
Officer, FlightSafety International
     LHeather Krause, Director, Physical 
Infrastructure, United States Government Accountability Office
     LCaptain Jason Ambrosi, President, Air Line Pilots 
Association, International

 
FAA REAUTHORIZATION: EXAMINING THE CURRENT AND FUTURE CHALLENGES FACING 
                        THE AEROSPACE WORKFORCE

                              ----------                              


                       WEDNESDAY, APRIL 19, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
                          Subcommittee on Aviation,
            Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:02 a.m., in 
room 2167 Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Garret Graves 
(Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. The Subcommittee on Aviation will 
come to order. I ask unanimous consent that the chair be 
authorized to declare a recess at any time during today's 
hearing.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    I also ask unanimous consent that Members not on the 
subcommittee be permitted to sit with the subcommittee at 
today's hearing and ask questions.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    As a reminder, if Members wish to insert a document into 
the record, please also email the document to 
[email protected].
    I will now recognize myself for the purpose of an opening 
statement for 5 minutes.

OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. GARRET GRAVES OF LOUISIANA, CHAIRMAN, 
                    SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION

    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. We have seen some pretty 
challenging times in the aviation sector over the past several 
years with COVID, with a huge drop in airline travel then a 
huge surge back. We have seen air traffic control run into 
incredible problems. And at the end of the day, it is our job 
to be looking at the impact on consumers; looking at the impact 
of the people that are the end users. And there are so many 
different components in the system. And I think that we are, 
sort of, the common thread that are supposed to be looking at 
this in how we ensure that there is compatibility, and that 
they complement one another.
    When you look forward and you begin looking at the 
projections for pilots, for mechanics, for advanced aviation 
systems, you look at flight attendants, you look at TSA agents 
or security personnel, and you look at where we are, we are 
going off a cliff. And what I mean by that is that the 
challenges that we have seen in recent years just with air 
traffic control issues and other challenges in the huge surge 
and drop in airline travel, that that will actually become 
common practice, meaning the disruptions, the lack of capacity, 
the higher prices, the delays, and cancellations, if we are 
unable to meet the projected demand.
    And so, this hearing today is focused on how in this 
upcoming FAA reauthorization bill we are going to address 
workforce issues, an absolutely critical issue. This is the 
last hearing, I think, the fourth hearing that we have had on 
aviation. And I think it is appropriate that today that we 
close out by talking about the hard-working men and women that 
are the backbone of our aviation industry.
    I want to thank the full committee Chairman Sam Graves for 
working with us and helping to identify the hearing topics that 
we have gone through. I want to thank my friend, Mr. Cohen, the 
ranking member, and Mr. Larsen, for their leadership issues and 
for their input on this as well to make sure that we are 
thinking about the big themes and thinking about the proper 
topics for the reauthorization bill.
    If I look at, kind of, the last few weeks and months of 
hearings that we have had, there is no question that we are at 
a crossroads in civil aviation. But I also want to say that the 
aviation industry, I think, really is remarkable. Despite all 
the flaws and problems, and sometimes in spite of the solutions 
that Congress imposes sometimes in search of problems, we still 
have the safest, the busiest, and the most successful aviation 
system in the world. And all of the success is owed to the 
Nation's unmatched aviation workforce. And I want to thank 
again the men and women, the millions of men and women that 
make up that aerospace workforce.
    Look, as we move forward, I think it is critical that we 
get input from the different sectors that are here today. And I 
will go through and say it again. Whether you are here 
representing pilots, you are representing airlines, you are 
representing general aviation, you are representing flight 
attendants, you are representing the mechanics, you are 
representing all the ground crews that are out there--you are 
representing this next generation, this advanced aviation that 
we are looking at. We have got to get this right. Because at 
the end of the day, if we don't, then the disruptions that we 
have seen over the last few years, quite frankly, aren't going 
to be anything.
    And so, I think it is critical as we move forward that we 
look carefully at the weakest link. We have often found 
ourselves out there building up one component of it only to not 
have another. And, for example, look at what has happened 
recently with the constraining of capacity in the Northeast. We 
had a weak link. We had lack of capacity in one single sector 
of the aviation industry. We have had to actually pull back 
slots or constrain capacity. Coming back to what I said 
starting out, at the end of the day, it is about the consumer. 
If we are constraining capacity, we are reducing convenience, 
and we are probably increasing prices. And that is not the 
direction we need to be moving in.
    So, in closing I am going to say this: We are well aware 
there are projections that make it crystal clear that we have 
got challenges ahead of us. And we have got to be thinking 
about how we can move forward in a way that meets the growing 
demand that we are going to have but does it while maintaining 
the clear objective of convenience, of affordability, of 
safety, and making sure that we do this in a way that is smart 
and effective for taxpayers.
    [Mr. Graves of Louisiana's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
   Prepared Statement of Hon. Garret Graves of Louisiana, Chairman, 
                        Subcommittee on Aviation
    When you look at the workforce projections for pilots, mechanics, 
advanced aviation systems, flight attendants, TSA agents, and others 
compared to where we are today--we can see very clearly that we're 
going off a cliff. What I mean by that is the challenges we've seen in 
recent years--dramatic drops and unexpected surges in consumer demands 
for airline travel, constraints for our air traffic control system--
will become common practice. This means that disruptions, lack of 
capacity, higher prices, delays, and cancellations will continue if 
we're unable to get ahead of the projected demand for air travel. There 
are so many different components in this system, and we need to ensure 
that all aspects of the aviation industry are working in unison to 
support the public.
    This hearing is focused on exploring how the upcoming Federal 
Aviation Administration (FAA) reauthorization bill could address these 
workforce shortages--an absolutely critical issue. This is the last 
hearing we will have had in the Subcommittee before we get to work 
writing that bill, and I think it's appropriate that today we close out 
by talking about the hard-working men and women who are the backbone of 
our aviation industry.
    I want to thank the full Committee Chairman Sam Graves for working 
with us and helping identify the hearing topics we've gone through. I 
want to thank my friend, Mr. Cohen, and the Ranking Member, Mr. Larsen, 
for their leadership and their input on this to make sure that we're 
thinking about the big themes and proper topics for the reauthorization 
bill.
    If I look at the last few weeks and months of hearings that we've 
had, there's no question that we're at a crossroads in civil aviation. 
The aviation industry really is remarkable. Despite all of the 
challenges it faces, we still have the world's safest, busiest, and 
most successful aviation system. I want to thank the many safety 
advocates including those in attendance today for continuing to push 
our system to new levels of safety.
    We owe all of this success to the nation's unmatched aviation 
workforce. And I want to thank, again, the men and women--the millions 
of men and women--that make up that aerospace workforce.
    As we move forward, it's critical that we get input from the 
different sectors that are here today. Whether you're here representing 
pilots, airlines, general aviation, flight attendants, mechanics, or 
all the ground crews--you're representing this next generation of our 
aviation system.
    We've got to get this right. Because at the end of the day, if we 
don't, then the disruptions that we've seen over the last few years, 
quite frankly, aren't going to be fixed.
    As we move forward, we must look carefully at the weakest link. 
We've often found ourselves out there building up one component of the 
holistic system, only to see another component suffer from a lack of 
attention and resources.
    For example, look at what's happened recently with the constraining 
capacity in air traffic control capabilities in the northeast. We had a 
weak link. We've had to actually pull back flight availabilities in 
those airports to ensure that ATC is able to safely handle the number 
of flights in their region.
    Coming back to what I said at the beginning of my remarks: at the 
end of the day, this is about the consumer. If we're constraining 
capacity, we're reducing convenience and probably increasing price, and 
that's not the direction we need to be moving in.
    We are well aware that projections make it crystal clear that we've 
got workforce challenges ahead of us. We've got to be thinking about 
how we can move forward in a way that meets future demand while 
maintaining the clear objective of convenience, affordability, and 
safety. We have to ensure that we do this in a smart and effective way 
for our taxpayers.

    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. So, with that, I yield back my 
time, and I recognize Ranking Member Cohen for 5 minutes.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. STEVE COHEN OF TENNESSEE, RANKING 
                MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON AVIATION

    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And welcome, everybody. 
And I particularly want to say I am aware of the Colgan family 
that is here, and that you continue to represent your loved 
ones who were lost in that terrible, horrific crash. And you're 
here to see that we have safe and good transportation.
    I am from Memphis, Tennessee, and Pinnacle Airlines, which 
ran Colgan, was out of my city. And I regret that, and they 
didn't run their airline necessarily as well as they should 
have. They ran it on the cheap. So, I apologize.
    I look forward to hearing from our esteemed witnesses today 
as we seek to learn about how we can develop and diversify the 
U.S. aviation workforce. The aviation industry is approaching a 
critical juncture with respect to its talent development, 
especially the recruitment, training, and retention of 
individuals in its workforce.
    A significant post-pandemic increase--everybody wants to 
travel--and an aging workforce are just two elements that have 
exacerbated the need for the FAA, Congress, and industry 
leadership to be vigilant in workforce development efforts. 
Without that, we can't have the airlines as they should be.
    Partly due to recent staffing issues, the traveling public 
has had to deal with notable disruptions in air transportation 
over the past 24 months, with increases in commercial airline 
delays and cancellations, leaving millions stranded at 
airports. I just experienced that on Sunday when my plane was 
canceled. Alex, have we found out why yet?
    Staff. Not yet.
    Mr. Cohen. Not yet. We have been trying--they said it was 
weather, but nobody else knows anything about the weather that 
would have done that, so, I was stranded.
    Last year, 20 percent of flights arrived behind schedule, 
resulting in 1.3 million delayed flights. There were roughly 
181,000 canceled flights in 2022, exceeding 2021. These 
statistics suggest Congress must move with urgency to 
intentionally develop the workforce and ensure U.S. air travel 
can continue to meet demands of our public.
    And to ensure our safety remains the gold standard, we must 
shift the focus to cultivating new pipelines for upcoming 
aviation professionals to flow through. One obvious solution 
resides within collegiate aviation programs which help students 
transition from college to career on the flight deck, in 
airports, and repair shops.
    In 2022, the Tennessee Board of Regents approved a new 
program at Southwest Tennessee Community College in my district 
which will help folks get into the airline industry with 
Federal Express in Memphis. We have those jobs available. It 
aims to keep those students in the aviation industry or to help 
them get into it. It's the first 2-year program of its kind in 
Tennessee and is poised to help diversify the aviation 
workforce.
    There has been progress in the FAA's HBCU initiative 
program, and several commercial operators, such as Delta, have 
pathway programs aimed at diversifying their workforce.
    Another great example in my district is FedEx, which has 
celebrated its 50th birthday. A birthday that when they came 50 
years ago, it was transformative to package delivery in the 
world. And to Memphis, it was a lifeline and a seamless 
relationship that continues and should continue forever. They 
have continued working with HBCUs to break down barriers for 
Black students, which is a large portion of our community in 
Memphis. They have created and funded three programs since 
2021, which aim to empower and educate HBCU students while also 
connecting them to internships and mentorship programs within 
the FedEx network.
    While these programs are helping to make progress, minority 
demographics are still severely underrepresented in commercial 
aviation. Black Americans constitute only 3.4 percent of 
professional pilots, 5.6 percent of airport management 
positions, and 9.5 percent of air traffic controllers, whereas 
women comprise only 20 percent of the aviation workforce.
    To rectify this issue, strengthen the workforce, and 
protect the industry's longevity, the concepts of diversity, 
equity, access, and inclusion must be at the forefront of our 
endeavors.
    I applaud the FAA, Congress, and the aviation stakeholders 
for their efforts thus far in helping move the needle in the 
right direction to develop the U.S. aerospace workforce. 
However, as we will hear from our witnesses present today, 
there is still more work to be done to ensure our workforce 
continues to grow.
    I look forward to learning more about how our subcommittee 
can support this multifaceted development so equity and 
inclusion can become concepts embedded within all of aviation, 
making recruitment and retention challenges an issue of the 
past.
    I come to this position with great joy in my work and an 
opportunity to do more good as being ranking member of the 
subcommittee. But it is a difficult journey for me because 
there might be a time or two I have to vote against my chair--
and he is such a nice guy, and he is such a good human being--
it is going to make it real hard for me. But I am going to do 
the best I can. I yield back the balance of my time.
    [Mr. Cohen's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
 Prepared Statement of Hon. Steve Cohen of Tennessee, Ranking Member, 
                        Subcommittee on Aviation
    Thank you. I look forward to hearing from our esteemed witnesses 
today as we seek to learn more about how we can develop and diversify 
the U.S. aviation workforce.
    The aviation industry is approaching a critical juncture with 
respect to its talent development, especially the recruitment, 
training, and retention of individuals in its workforce.
    A significant post-pandemic increase in demand for air travel and 
an aging workforce, are just two elements that have exacerbated the 
need for the FAA, Congress, and industry leadership to be vigilant in 
workforce development efforts.
    The reality is that without a robust workforce, planes cannot fly 
and people cannot travel safely.
    For instance, partly due to recent staffing issues, the traveling 
public has had to deal with notable disruptions in air transportation 
over the past 24 months, with increases in commercial airline delays 
and cancellations, leaving millions stranded at airports.
    Last year, 20 percent of flights arrived behind schedule, resulting 
in 1.3 million delayed flights. Furthermore, there were roughly 181,000 
canceled flights in 2022, exceeding 2021 cancellations.
    These statistics suggest that Congress must move with urgency to 
intentionally develop the workforce and ensure U.S. air travel can 
continue to meet the demands of the flying public.
    And to ensure our safety remains the gold standard, we must shift 
the focus to cultivating new pipelines for upcoming aviation 
professionals to flow through.
    One obvious solution resides within collegiate aviation programs, 
which help students transition from ``college to career'' on the flight 
deck, in airports, and in repair shops.
    In 2022, the Tennessee Board of Regents approved a new program at 
Southwest Tennessee Community College in my district.
    The program, which aims to help students enter the aviation 
industry, is the first two-year program of its kind in Tennessee, and 
is poised to help diversify the aviation workforce.
    There has also been some progress made with the FAA's Historically 
Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) Initiative Program and several 
commercial operators, such as Delta Air Lines, have pathway programs 
aimed at diversifying the workforce.
    Another great example in my district can be seen at FedEx through 
their collaboration with HBCUs to help break down entry barriers for 
Black students. They have created and funded three programs since 2021, 
which aim to empower and educate HBCU students while also connecting 
them to internships and mentorships within the FedEx network.
    While these programs are helping to make progress, minority 
demographics are still severely underrepresented in commercial 
aviation.
    For instance, Black Americans constitute only 3.4 percent of 
professional pilots, 5.6 percent of airport management positions, and 
9.5 percent of air traffic controllers, whereas women comprise only 20 
percent of the aviation workforce.
    To rectify this issue, strengthen the workforce, and protect the 
industry's longevity, the concepts of diversity, equity, access, and 
inclusion must be at the forefront of all workforce endeavors.
    I applaud the FAA, Congress, and aviation stakeholders for their 
efforts thus far in helping move the needle in the right direction to 
develop the U.S. aerospace workforce.
    However, as we will hear from our witnesses present today, there is 
still more work to be done to ensure our workforce continues to grow.
    I look forward to learning more about how our Subcommittee can 
support this multifaceted development so equity and inclusion can 
become concepts embedded within all of aviation, making recruitment and 
retention challenges an issue of the past.
    Thank you.

    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. We can always just go for a walk. 
Thank you. I now recognize the chair of the full committee, Sam 
Graves, and somebody who's been a great aviation mentor for me, 
and I think knows more about aviation than anyone in this room. 
I recognize the chair for 5 minutes.

  OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. SAM GRAVES OF MISSOURI, CHAIRMAN, 
         COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

    Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I want 
to thank our witnesses for being here today. And I do want to 
commend Chairman Graves and Ranking Member Cohen for holding 
these hearings in advance of the upcoming FAA reauthorization.
    I think it is very fitting that we kicked off our first 
series of hearings that we had with safety, because it 
underpins our entire aviation system. We are concluding today 
by focusing on the aerospace workforce. The men and women who 
keep the cogs turning in factories and repair facilities and 
cockpits and air traffic control towers across the country are 
not only instrumental to ensuring the safety of the traveling 
public, but they are also ensuring the global competitiveness 
of the American aerospace system. And now is the time to 
examine the challenges the aviation industry faces as we build 
and fly the advanced aircraft of the future.
    As a professional pilot, I think about how pilot training 
has remained static over the years, except for the adoption of 
the 1,500-hour rule. We heard in our first hearing how we have 
established the gold standard in aviation here in the United 
States. But it is also true that many other countries have safe 
systems. And none of them have achieved their safety record by 
matching the 1,500-hour rule for the first officer, including 
the United States.
    So, in our system, pilots with around 250 hours, typically 
very structured hours, come out of flight school, and they are 
left to bridge that gap to 1,500 hours. Only a few of those 
hours have any kind of requirements associated with them, and 
they can almost always be logged on a clear and sunny day.
    I am not convinced that kids coming out of flight school 
and telling them they need to be towing banners or teaching 
students or boring holes in the sky while racking up debt 
produces the best pilots.
    We all know what the FAA found, and that is the number of 
flight-hours you have are not a reflection of what kind of a 
pilot you are. I know some of our pilot groups out there like 
to point out that we haven't had an accident in the last 10 
years. I want to go back through and examine those accidents 
because they point to the fact that they are not a result of 
the 1,500-flight-hour rule. If you go back and look at the 
accidents prior to 2010, not a single one had anything to do 
with the 1,500 hours.
    You can classify accidents in two categories. You can 
classify them as mechanical failure, which the FAA determines 
is unrecoverable due to something happening to the aircraft. Or 
you can classify them as pilot error.
    So, if you go back in 2004 at Pinnacle, what we saw was a 
severe lack of professionalism where the pilot in command had 
7,000 hours, and he pushed the envelope during a ferry flight--
and he did that intentionally, having fun--and it led to a loss 
of both engines.
    In 2004, a Corporate Airlines pilot failed to properly 
execute a nonprecision approach. Both crewmembers had in excess 
of 1,500 hours.
    Comair, in 2006, pilots attempted to take off from the 
wrong runway. Both crewmembers had well in excess of 1,500 
hours.
    And then we come to Colgan. The captain responded 
incorrectly to a stall warning that led to the loss of the 
airplane. Both crewmembers had well in excess of 1,500 hours. 
The captain had 3,379 hours, and the first officer had 2,244 
hours. It had nothing to do with the 1,500-flight-hour rule.
    We have got to find better ways to train safer and better 
skilled pilots and give folks the credit for the skill that 
they demonstrate or the high-quality training that they 
receive.
    Just look at the military. You come out of the military, 
and you go into combat 300 hours. So, what we are saying is 
that pilots who have 300 hours are qualified to fly an F-15 for 
the Air Force or an F-18 for the Navy in combat, but they are 
not qualified to fly in the right seat of an airliner. They are 
qualified to fly in a C-17 or a C-130 hauling heavy cargo, but 
they are not qualified to fly in the right seat of an airliner.
    We all know what happened in Buffalo. And I agree that the 
system covered up some problems. That is where we need to 
focus. We need to focus on what the problem is, not what the 
problem isn't. Anything less is an insult to the profession and 
the industry that relies on our pilots, to be quite honest with 
you.
    And with that, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses 
about the ways that we can improve not only the pilot 
workforce, but other skilled professionals our pilots depend on 
to make sure that we deliver people and goods all over the 
country. And with that, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    [Mr. Graves of Missouri's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
Prepared Statement of Hon. Sam Graves of Missouri, Chairman, Committee 
                  on Transportation and Infrastructure
    First off, I want to commend Chairman Graves and Ranking Member 
Cohen for holding these hearings in advance of the upcoming FAA 
reauthorization bill.
    I think it's fitting that we kicked off our series of hearings with 
safety, which underpins our entire aviation system, and that we're 
concluding today by focusing on the aerospace workforce. The men and 
women who keep the cogs turning in factories, repair facilities, 
cockpits, and air traffic control towers across the country are not 
only instrumental to ensuring the safety of the traveling public, but 
also to ensuring the global competitiveness of the American aerospace 
industry.
    Now is the time to examine the challenges the aviation industry 
faces so we can build and fly the advanced aircraft of the future. As a 
professional pilot, I think about how pilot training has remained 
static over the years, except for the adoption of the 1,500 flight-hour 
rule.
    We heard at our first hearing how we've established the gold 
standard here in the United States, but it's also true that many other 
countries have very safe systems. And none of them have achieved their 
safety record by matching our 1,500 flight-hour first officer 
requirement.
    In our system, pilots with around 250 hours--typically very 
structured hours--come out of flight school and are left to bridge the 
gap to 1,500 hours. Only a few of those hours have any kind of 
requirements associated with them, and even then, they can almost all 
be logged on sunny, clear days. I'm not convinced that taking kids out 
of flight school and telling them to tow banners, train students, or 
bore holes in the sky while racking up debt produces the best pilots.
    We all know what the FAA found--that the number of flight hours you 
have are not a reflection of what kind of pilot you are. I know some of 
the pilot groups like to point out that we haven't had an accident in 
the last 10 years. So, I want to go back through and examine those 
accidents because they point to the fact that they are not a result of 
the 1,500 flight-hour rule. If you look at the accidents prior to 2010, 
not a single one had anything to do with 1,500 hours.
    You can classify accidents in two categories. You can classify them 
as mechanical failure, which the FAA determines is unrecoverable due to 
something happening to the aircraft. Or you can classify them as pilot 
error.
    If you go back to 2004, Pinnacle, what we saw was a severe lack of 
professionalism where the pilot in command had 7,000 hours, and he 
pushed the envelope during a ferry flight--and he did that 
intentionally--having fun. And it led to a loss of both engines.
    In 2004, a Corporate Airlines pilot failed to properly execute a 
non-precision approach. Both crew members had in excess of 1,500 hours.
    Comair, 2006, pilots attempted to take off from the wrong runway. 
Both the crew members had well in excess of 1,500 hours.
    In the Colgan Air accident, the captain responded incorrectly to a 
stall warning that led to the loss of the airplane. Both crew members 
had well in excess of 1,500 hours. The captain had 3,379 hours and the 
first officer had 2,244 hours. It had nothing to do with the 1,500 hour 
rule.
    We have got to find better ways to train safer and better skilled 
pilots and give folks credit for the skill they demonstrate or the 
high-quality training they receive.
    Just look at the military. You come out of the military, and you go 
into combat with 300 hours. So what we're saying is pilots who have 300 
hours are qualified to fly an F15 for the Air Force or an F18 for the 
Navy in combat, but they can't fly in the right seat of an airliner. 
They're qualified to fly a C17 or a C130 hauling heavy cargo, but 
they're not qualified to fly in the right seat of an airliner.
    We all know what happened in Buffalo, and I agree that the system 
covered up some problems. That's where we need to focus. We need to 
focus on where the problem is, not where the problem isn't. Anything 
less is an insult to the profession and the industry that relies on our 
pilots.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about ways we can 
improve not only the pilot workforce but also the other skilled 
professionals our pilots depend on to deliver people and goods around 
the world.

    Mr. Yakym [presiding]. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you 
for your opening remarks. I now recognize the ranking member of 
the full committee, Mr. Larsen, for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement.

 OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. RICK LARSEN OF WASHINGTON, RANKING 
     MEMBER, COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE

    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Thank you, Chair, for calling 
today's FAA reauthorization hearing to explore the challenges 
facing the workforce in aviation and aerospace.
    American innovation, economic growth, and global leadership 
are impossible without the hard-working Americans that make up 
our Nation's aerospace and aviation workforce. These dedicated 
and talented individuals keep our skies safe and efficient; 
design, build, repair, and operate our most modern aircraft; 
and help ensure the traveling public arrives at their final 
destinations without incident--Representative Cohen's 
experience notwithstanding.
    The last few years have exacerbated ongoing challenges 
faced in the industry and workforce. Congress has a 
responsibility to address these challenges to ensure that we 
retain a robust U.S. aerospace and aviation workforce now and 
in the future.
    Recent projections show air travel is expected to reach 
pre-pandemic levels in North America by the end of this year. 
That growth is welcomed, but the industry has struggled to keep 
pace with this robust recovery that--thanks to decisive 
congressional action to sustain the industry during the 
pandemic--occurred much faster than anticipated.
    Often at the forefront of this discussion is the 
availability and recruitment of U.S. commercial airline pilots. 
While there continues to be debate about whether the current or 
future supply of pilots is enough to adequately meet demand, 
here are some facts. FAA has reportedly issued an average of 
more than 6,200 new airline transport pilot--or ATP--and 
restricted ATP--or R-ATP--certificates every year since 2014. 
From 2017 to 2022, the number of new ATP certificates issued 
annually more than doubled, from an estimated 4,500 to 9,600 
certificates. And the Bureau of Labor Stats--or BLS--projects 
the overall employment of airline and commercial pilots to grow 
6 percent from 2021 to 2031.
    Meanwhile, the U.S. maintains its role as a global leader 
in aviation safety in part due to the key safety rule requiring 
1,500 hours of total flight time for pilots hired by U.S. 
airlines.
    As many of us know, the standard was enacted following the 
Colgan Air flight 3407 that crashed near Buffalo in 2009. And 
I, too, would like to recognize the families who are here today 
who lost loved ones and thank them for their unwavering and 
consistent advocacy in front of this committee and in front of 
Congress.
    Since the establishment of this rule, the U.S. commercial 
airline industry has experienced one of the safest decades on 
record. And while the advancement of aviation technology such 
as full-scale flight simulators and other computer-based 
equipment are helpful tools in developing a more skilled and 
safer pilot workforce, there is no substitute for real-world 
flying experience on a flight deck. So, preserving the current 
safety requirements on training are critical to maintaining the 
U.S. gold standard in aviation safety.
    Further, Congress, the FAA, and stakeholders must expand 
the pipeline of talent and improve efforts to recruit, train, 
and retain a robust workforce from every part of our society. 
To address this priority, the 2018 FAA bill invested $10 
million annually in the section 625 Aviation Workforce 
Development Grant program to support the training and 
recruitment of new aircraft mechanics and pilots.
    For example, in my hometown of Everett, Washington, 
Aviation Technical Services, or ATS, earned a $459,000 grant to 
support their apprenticeship and training programs which focus 
on introductory and displaced workers as well as veterans 
transitioning to civilian life. This grant program is widely 
supported by stakeholders. Unfortunately, despite receiving 
hundreds of applications, the FAA could only award 53 grants in 
the last 2 funding rounds. So, increasing the overall funding 
level for this program would also help alleviate the bottleneck 
in training.
    And, finally, as our Nation works towards a long-term 
recovery, it is critical the educational and career 
opportunities in the aerospace industry be available and 
accessible to all Americans.
    According to the latest census data, women represent more 
than half of the U.S. population, 50.8 percent, yet, only 3.6 
percent of airline captains and 2.6 percent of aircraft 
mechanics. Further, more than 13 percent of the U.S. population 
is African American. However, only 3.4 percent of commercial 
air pilots are African American.
    My point here is that there is an opportunity. The 
opportunity for the aviation and aerospace industry, not just 
to take the initial steps to enhance and diversify its 
workforce through creation of flight-training academies, 
apprenticeships, and other career programs, is that more can be 
done. And Congress must expand the pipeline of people entering 
aviation careers by increasing outreach to, and opportunities 
for, communities underrepresented in the industry. Because it 
is not just the right thing to do, but it is probably the most 
economically competitive thing that we can do to maintain the 
long-term health of the industry.
    And so, I would look forward to the testimony today from 
our panel. And with that I yield back my negative 2 seconds.
    [Mr. Larsen of Washington's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
 Prepared Statement of Hon. Rick Larsen of Washington, Ranking Member, 
             Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
    Thank you, Chairman Graves, for calling today's FAA reauthorization 
hearing to explore the challenges facing the U.S. aerospace and 
aviation workforce.
    American innovation, economic growth and global leadership are 
impossible without the hard-working Americans that make up our nation's 
aerospace workforce.
    These dedicated and talented individuals keep our skies safe and 
efficient; design, build, repair and operate our most modern aircraft; 
and help ensure the traveling public arrives at their final 
destinations without incident.
    The last few years have exacerbated ongoing challenges facing the 
industry and workforce. Congress has a responsibility to address these 
challenges to ensure we retain a robust U.S. aerospace and aviation 
workforce now and in the future.
    Recent projections show that air travel is expected to reach pre-
pandemic levels in North America by the end of the year.
    While this growth is welcomed, the industry has struggled to keep 
pace with this robust recovery that--thanks to decisive Congressional 
action to sustain the industry during the pandemic--occurred much 
faster than anticipated.
    Often at the forefront of this discussion is the availability and 
recruitment of U.S. commercial airline pilots.
    While there continues to be debate about whether the current or 
future supply of pilots is enough to adequately meet demand, here are 
the facts:
      The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has reportedly 
issued on average more than 6,200 new Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) and 
restricted (R-ATP) certificates every year since 2014;
      From 2017 to 2022 alone, the number of new ATP 
certificates issued annually more than doubled, from an estimated 4,500 
to 9,600 certificates; and
      The Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects the overall 
employment of airline and commercial pilots to grow 6 percent from 2021 
to 2031.

    Meanwhile, the U.S. maintains its role as the global leader in 
aviation safety, in part due to the key safety rule requiring 1,500 
hours of total flight time for pilots hired by U.S. airlines; commonly 
referred to as the ``1,500-hour rule.''
    As many of us know, this standard was enacted following the tragic 
Colgan Air flight 3407 crash near Buffalo, NY in 2009--and I would like 
to recognize the families who lost loved ones for their unwavering 
advocacy; some of whom are here in person today.
    Since the establishment of the 1,500-hour rule, the U.S. commercial 
airline industry has experienced one of the safest decades on record.
    While the advancement of aviation technologies, such as full-scale 
flight simulators and other computer-based equipment, are helpful tools 
in developing a more skilled and safer pilot workforce, there is no 
substitute for real-world flying experience on a flight deck.
    Preserving the current safety requirements on pilot training are 
critical to maintaining the U.S. gold standard in aviation safety.
    Further, Congress, the FAA and stakeholders must expand the 
pipeline of talent and improve efforts to recruit, train and retain a 
robust U.S. aerospace workforce from every part of our society.
    To address this priority, the 2018 FAA reauthorization law invested 
$10 million annually in the Sec. 625 aviation workforce development 
grants to support the training and recruitment of new aircraft 
mechanics and pilots.
    For example, in Everett, Washington, Aviation Technical Services 
earned a $459,000 grant to support their apprenticeship and training 
programs, which focus on introductory and displaced workers, as well as 
veterans transitioning to civilian life.
    This grant program is widely supported by stakeholders across the 
aerospace sector. Unfortunately, despite receiving hundreds of 
applications, the FAA could only award 53 grants in the last two 
funding rounds.
    Increasing the overall funding level for the program would help 
alleviate this bottleneck. Furthermore, expanding the grant eligibility 
to include aviation manufacturing would help cultivate the skills 
necessary--particularly in innovative technologies--for the U.S. 
aerospace workforce to compete globally.
    As our nation works toward long-term economic recovery, it is 
critical that the educational and career opportunities in the aerospace 
industry be available and accessible to all Americans.
    According to the latest Census data, women represent more than half 
of the U.S. population--50.8 percent. Yet only 3.6 percent of airline 
captains and 2.6 percent of aircraft mechanics are women.
    Furthermore, more than 13 percent of the U.S. population is African 
American. However only 3.4 percent of commercial pilots are African 
American.
    The U.S. aerospace industry is taking the initial steps to enhance 
and diversify its workforce, through the creation of flight training 
academies, apprenticeships and other career pathway programs. But more 
can be done.
    Congress must expand the pipeline of people entering aerospace 
careers by increasing outreach to, and opportunities for, communities 
underrepresented in the industry. It's not just the right thing to do, 
it's probably the most economically competitive thing we can do to 
maintain the long-term health of the industry.
    The 2018 FAA reauthorization law created two expert panels--the 
Youth Access to American Jobs in Aviation Task Force and the Women in 
Aviation Advisory Board--to help address this issue and their final 
reports were completed late last year. The Committee is assessing their 
recommendations for inclusion in the upcoming reauthorization bill.
    The current and future challenges facing the U.S. aerospace 
workforce are significant, but I believe we can meet them.
    I look forward to hearing recommendations from today's witnesses on 
how we can enhance the talent pipeline for the aerospace workforce and 
ensure U.S. leadership in this growing sector.

    Mr. Yakym. Almost on time, Mr. Larsen. I would like to 
welcome our witnesses today and thank them for being here.
    Briefly, I would like to take a moment to explain how our 
lighting system works. There are three lights in front of you. 
Green means go. Yellow means you are running out of time, so, 
wrap it up. And red means your time has expired.
    I ask unanimous consent that the witnesses' full statements 
be included in the record.
    Without objection, so ordered.
    As your written testimony has been made part of the record, 
the subcommittee asks that you limit your oral remarks to 5 
minutes. And with that, Ms. Black, you are recognized for 5 
minutes for your opening statement.

TESTIMONY OF FAYE MALARKEY BLACK, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE 
OFFICER, REGIONAL AIRLINE ASSOCIATION; SHARON B. DeVIVO, Ed.D., 
  PRESIDENT, VAUGHN COLLEGE; BRAD THRESS, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF 
EXECUTIVE OFFICER, FlightSafety INTERNATIONAL; HEATHER KRAUSE, 
      DIRECTOR, PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, U.S. GOVERNMENT 
ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE; AND CAPT. JASON AMBROSI, PRESIDENT, AIR 
             LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL

TESTIMONY OF FAYE MALARKEY BLACK, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE 
             OFFICER, REGIONAL AIRLINE ASSOCIATION

    Ms. Black. Thank you very much. Chairman Graves, Ranking 
Member Cohen, subcommittee members, I am Faye Malarkey Black, 
CEO of the Regional Airline Association. Thank you for 
including me.
    Every airline worker holds the safety of passengers in 
their hands. My full statement covers more ground, so, I will 
focus now on the pilot shortage, which has grown for years 
while our industry contracted, small communities lost air 
service, and other airline employees lost jobs. Thank you for 
the payroll support program. It saved our industry. Still, we 
emerged smaller from the pandemic. Regional airlines did not 
shed pilots, but larger airlines saw 6,000 leave. Their 
replacements plus more for growth came from regionals.
    Regionals turned to a pipeline that was higher than usual 
last year, but still qualified just 9,491 while 12 large 
airlines alone hired 13,128. Today, 300 airports have lost air 
service, losing on average 1 in 4 flights. Eleven airports went 
dark. Some say these were profit decisions, so, let's settle 
the matter. Airlines do not shrink networks to profitability, 
nor park expensive assets unless they must. Today, we see 
stabilization, not recovery. And within 15 years, nearly half 
of all pilots will retire.
    Networks use larger aircraft to cope, concentrating service 
at larger cities, while cutting frequency and markets. 
Passengers become drivers, while traffic fatalities claimed 
more than 40,000 lives last year.
    Some have used data stripped of context to say the pilot 
shortage is not real. Some say a large mode around the career 
is needed to boost wages for those inside. Some say there is no 
pilot shortage, just a pay shortage.
    Regional airlines' starting pay averages $100,000 for 
pilots. Bonuses can exceed $125,000. Five hundred jets are 
parked. Pay hasn't solved this. We need better career access.
    Today's Federal Student Aid system fails pilots. Federal 
loans are short $80,000 or more. Airlines provide subsidized 
training and other supports, but lower income families can't 
bridge the gap.
    Today's pilots are 96 percent White and 91 percent male. A 
racial wealth gap means cost barriers who hurt people of color 
most. Many work first jobs to afford pilot jobs. The average 
new hire is in their thirties, the median age for childbearing. 
RAA supports a bill expected soon to align student loans with 
flight education costs. This can't come soon enough.
    We support use of 529 plans for flight training, and the GI 
bill for private pilot licenses. Pilots are high earners. 
Helping people fund training is the right thing to do, and it's 
sound economic policy. As solutions advance, we ask Congress to 
let experienced pilots fly until age 67, if they choose.
    Raising the age will have immediate, positive effects, 
particularly as an acute captain shortage slows even first 
officers. No data shows a pilot is unsafe at 65, but this 
arbitrary line forces qualified pilots to retire when they have 
much to offer. These are mentors for the next generation, and 
they have our support.
    Most importantly, RAA urges Congress to ensure that pilot 
qualification standards ensure qualified pilots. A rule change 
in 2013 required pilots to gain vastly more pre-hire flight 
time without support for pilots shouldering the burden. This 
was intended to improve pilot experience, but the reality has 
been different.
    The same studies FAA used to craft the rule have been 
updated four times, and each shows that pilots now build time 
at the expense of the quality and the recency of their 
training.
    The more time pilots spend building hours, the more the 
positive effect of their training fades. Despite the rhetoric, 
pilots do not encounter icing or thunderstorms or practice 
commercial flying procedures when they build this time. They 
fly light aircraft in clear weather. They arrive in our 
training programs with high time, but they are not ready. 
Failure rates have soared even though airlines have tightened 
screening and expanded training footprints repeatedly. 
Overreliance on hours has introduced risk, and we are 
compensating with remedial training.
    We have not asked to change the rule. Congress has already 
provided the remedy directing FAA to approve training pathways 
that enhance safety, but just three exist with no actions since 
2013. The operating environment has changed, and flight 
simulators and training devices have advanced. No airline would 
assume a 2013 training program remains relevant today, and the 
FAA should not either. FAA must keep up, and we ask Congress to 
keep watch.
    There has never been a better time to be a commercial 
airline pilot, but we need safe policies to open doors to this 
transformational career. We will keep doing our part. We would 
like your help. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify 
today, and I look forward to your questions.
    [Ms. Black's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
    Prepared Statement of Faye Malarkey Black, President and Chief 
            Executive Officer, Regional Airline Association
    My name is Faye Malarkey Black. I am the President and CEO of the 
Regional Airline Association (RAA). Regional airlines play a critical 
role in the U.S. air transportation system, particularly for smaller 
communities. The safety of our passengers, crewmembers, and the public 
is and will always be our top priority. RAA appreciates the opportunity 
to testify before the Committee today and share our perspective on the 
current workforce challenges facing the airline industry and its impact 
on air service across the country.
    I want to thank the Committee for its leadership during the 
pandemic. The Payroll Support Program provided a lifeline to airline 
industry employees. Likewise, the minimum air service guarantees put in 
place kept as many small communities as possible connected to the air 
transportation system during that challenging time. Unfortunately, the 
pandemic was particularly hard on the regional airline industry; 
several airlines shuttered or went through bankruptcy, and the industry 
emerged smaller than before.
                     The Regional Airline Industry
    RAA represents 18 regional airlines \1\, which operate 41% of the 
U.S. scheduled passenger departures and directly employ more than 
62,000 individuals. Regional airlines specialize in operating smaller 
aircraft that are rightsized for smaller markets. In 2021, regional 
airlines carried approximately 123 million passengers; a substantial 
increase from the 73 million carried in 2020, during the height of 
COVID, but still more than 40 million fewer passengers than carried in 
2019. Regional airlines provide more than half of the air service in 30 
states and more than 75% of the air service in 15 states \2\. Notably, 
regional airlines offer the only source of scheduled, commercial air 
service at 67% of U.S. airports. In fact, major airlines operate at 
about 33% of U.S. commercially served airports, while regional airlines 
operate at 98%.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ RAA Members are: Air Wisconsin, CommuteAir, Cape Air, Empire 
Airlines, Endeavor Air, Envoy, GoJet Airlines, Horizon Air, Jazz, Mesa 
Airlines, New England Airlines, Piedmont, PSA Airlines, Ravn Alaska, 
Republic Airways, Silver Airways, SkyWest Airlines
    \2\ Regional airlines provide 75% or more of the air service in 
Alabama (81%), Alaska (88%), Arkansas (81%), Iowa (78%), Kansas (82%), 
Maine (79%), Mississippi (82%), North Dakota (88%), South Dakota (85%), 
Vermont (92%), West Virginia (91%). Regional airlines provide half or 
more of the air service in Idaho (73%), Indiana (59%), Kentucky (60%), 
Michigan (57%), Montana (73%), Nebraska (60%), New Hampshire (69%), New 
Mexico (63%), North Carolina (55%), Ohio (52%), Oklahoma (55%), Oregon 
(54%), Pennsylvania (59%), Rhode Island (67%), South Carolina (57%), 
Utah (58%), Wisconsin (67%), and Wyoming (64%).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Without regional airlines, huge segments of the U.S. population 
would not have access to scheduled, passenger air service without 
hours-long highway drives. For this reason, regional airlines play a 
crucial role in upholding multi-modal transportation safety. According 
to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and the Federal 
Highway Administration, Americans continue to drive more than during 
the height of the pandemic, and preliminary Federal Highway 
Administration data shows a 1.6% increase in vehicle miles traveled, or 
about 39 billion miles, with traffic fatalities claiming the lives of 
31,785 people in the first nine months of 2022 alone.\3\ Compared to 
2021, traffic fatalities increased 12% on rural interstates.\4\ In 
2021, the last year for which there is full data, traffic fatalities 
reached an estimated 42,915 deaths, a ten-year high.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/nhtsa-estimates-traffic-
deaths-2022-third-quarter
    \4\ Id.
    \5\ https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/early-estimate-2021-
traffic-fatalities
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Because major airlines cannot serve smaller airports with their 
larger aircraft, most partner with regional airlines to provide air 
service to small communities. The goal of this arrangement is to bring 
air service connectivity and a seamless, safe, and reliable travel 
experience to passengers in every corner of the country. While regional 
airlines contribute significantly to civil aviation's overall $1.8 
trillion economic footprint, air service at small communities (defined 
as small and non-hub airports) drove $152 billion in direct economic 
activity in 2019, supporting over one million jobs and $43 billion in 
local taxes and wages.\6\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ https://www.raa.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/RAA_Annual-
Report-2019_v33_bw.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
       Addressing Workforce Challenges Today and into the Future
    The regional airline industry, like most of the airline industry, 
has experienced workforce challenges. Most acute among these challenges 
is a severe and ongoing pilot shortage. Regional airlines have adopted 
many self-help measures to address the shortage, but these measures are 
not enough alone. That is why we are focused on partnering with 
Congress, the Administration, and interested stakeholder groups to 
safely address the impacts the pilot shortage is having on our 
industry, passengers, and the communities we serve. Working together, 
it is critical that we increase equitable career access, reduce the 
cost barriers associated with pilot training, and update and modernize 
the training provided. These actions will expand the pilot development 
pipeline to include a more diverse population, while improving aviation 
safety and creating an environment where air service can be restored 
and grow.
  The Regional Airline Industry Is Suffering from a Devastating Pilot 
                                Shortage
    Despite soaring passenger demand, a worsening pilot shortage has 
hindered the regional airline industry's recovery from the pandemic and 
is decimating small community air service. This shortage has been 
growing for decades, driven by the inability to create a sustainable 
pipeline of new pilots. One of the main challenges has been the FAA's 
inaction in advancing and evolving pilot training standards as 
envisioned under the Airline Safety and FAA Extension Act of 2010 (2010 
Airline Safety Act.) \7\ Most pilots only have access to an hours-based 
pilot qualification standard, which incorporates little actual training 
after completing flight school. To maintain safety, every regional 
airline has significantly expanded its training footprint, but more 
candidates fail out today than they did before the qualification 
standards favored flight time over quality training. This prevents air 
carriers from maximizing the pilot development pipeline.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ P.L. 111-216 (August 1, 2010).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The impacts of the pilot shortage are real. Currently, more than 
500 regional aircraft are parked,\8\ and those aircraft remaining in 
service are underutilized. The impact has been felt by 308 airports, or 
almost 72 percent of all U.S. airports. These airports have, on 
average, lost one quarter of their flights, with smaller airports 
experiencing a disproportionate impact.\9\ This is happening despite 
industry self-help measures, including dramatic compensation increases 
and enhancing partnerships and pathways with training providers and 
larger carriers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ https://www.flightglobal.com/fleets/nearly-500-regional-jets-
parked-in-usa-cirium-fleets-data/152859.article
    \9\ OAG published schedules April 2019 vs. April 2023
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For decades, the airline industry depended on the U.S. military to 
provide a robust supply of well-trained pilots; however, due to a 
variety of factors, including the military's decision to disinvest in 
manned aircraft, that pipeline substantially diminished. Our collective 
long-term success in addressing workforce challenges will depend on our 
ability to hire civilian men and women from underrepresented 
backgrounds and demographics. Unfortunately, despite targeted efforts, 
airlines have not been able to successfully expand the recruitment of 
pilots outside the industry's core demographic, which is overwhelmingly 
comprised of white males. The main obstacles to accomplishing this goal 
are barriers to entry related to access and wealth; bottom line, this 
is an expensive career path.
    Currently, the pilot shortage is further complicated by an acute 
captain shortage. Twelve large carriers alone hired 13,128 \10\ pilots 
in 2022, sourcing nearly all these pilots from regional airlines. This 
hiring spree specifically targeted captains and captain-eligible first 
officers. Exacerbating the captain shortage is the forecasted growth in 
pilot retirements. Over the next fifteen years, approximately 50 
percent of the workforce will be forced to retire. When a pilot--
typically a captain--retires from a larger airline, this sets off a 
trickle-down effect of upgrades, ultimately resulting in a pilot--
typically a captain or captain-eligible first officer--being hired from 
a regional airline. Because every flight needs a captain, and because 
there are more captains recruited by larger airlines than there are 
regional airline captains, or first officers eligible to upgrade and 
replace them, even first officer hiring is slowed, despite a growing 
shortage of all pilots. Thousands of willing, healthy, and skilled 
pilots, who would like to continue working, are being forced out of the 
profession at age 65, to the detriment of air service across the 
country.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ https://fapa.aero/hiringhistoryarchive.asp?year=2022
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
 There aren't Enough Qualified and Interested Pilots Available for Hire
    Despite increased FAA pilot certifications in 2022, there are not 
enough qualified and interested pilots for hire. Though 9,491 new 
pilots qualified in 2022--the highest number on record--it fell far 
short of the 13,128 hired by just one subset of the airline industry 
last year. It is vitally important that pilot production in 2022 be put 
in the proper context. COVID substantially disrupted the pilot 
development pipeline with roughly 4,105 expected pilot qualifications 
interrupted between 2020 and 2021.\11\ Though 9,491 new pilots 
qualified in 2022, this ten-year high drops below the five-year average 
once adjusted for the pandemic backlog.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ Analysis of data files distributed monthly by Registry 
Services and Information Management Branch, AFB-730, Federal Aviation 
Administration
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additionally, many external factors influence the assignment of 
trends in pilot supply data. Just as COVID disruptions led to a ten-
year high in pilot qualifications in 2022 when pilots caught up, a 
closing regulatory window accelerated qualifications in 2016--the 
second highest year on record--before a steep drop in 2017. Wide swings 
in qualifications, including increases or decreases of near or above 
100% from one year to the next, illustrate both the need to control for 
data anomalies when drawing conclusions, and the fragility of pilot 
supply year over year.



    In terms of the current pilot supply, we have no expectation that 
large carriers will slow the pace of hiring over the course of this 
year, thus limiting the opportunity for regional airlines to replenish 
their pilot ranks. On its last earnings' call, United Airline CEO, Scot 
Kirby stated, ``We along with Delta, American, and Southwest alone are 
planning to hire about 8,000 pilots this year compared to historical 
supply in the 6,000 to 7,000 range. Pilots are and will remain a 
significant constraint on capacity.'' \12\ Mr. Kirby also noted that 
other large air carriers are expected to hire around 2,000 pilots, 
indicating an overall demand of at least 10,000 pilots, which will be 
sourced primarily from regional airlines.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ UAL 4Q/FY22 Earnings Call, January 18, 2023. See: https://
ir.united.com/static-files/5b5b2c9c-aa92-44da-ad37-753035bedd8d.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This demand is being fueled in part by of the coming tsunami of 
pilot retirements. Over the next 15 years, nearly 50 percent of the 
commercial airline workforce will be forced to retire because they will 
reach the age of 65. There are 70 percent more pilots aged 43 to 64 
than aged 21-42. Reflective of the high cost of flight education and 
training, the ``under 30 years of age'' cohort of pilots is the 
smallest at around 8 percent of total pilots. This year, 2,225 pilots 
must retire. Required retirements will peak in 2029 at 3,750, when 
pilots aged 58 today turn 65. Thereafter, retirements remain high, 
staying above 2023's rate for the foreseeable future.



    Equally important is the aggregate number of pilots that may be 
available to hire. More than one-third of the 174,424 ATP certificate 
holders in the FAA's Civil Airmen Database are ineligible for hire 
because either they are foreign pilots, or don't hold a first class 
medical, or have other disqualifying factors.



    Of the remaining 112,715 pilots, we can determine how many are 
available to hire from the seniority lists for legacy, regional, low 
cost, national, and large cargo carriers, which totals more than 
100,000 pilots. This leaves slightly over 12,000 pilots who aren't on 
seniority lists. Business aviation and charter operators also employ 
ATP pilots, making it reasonable to conclude that nearly every eligible 
pilot is already working.



    When determining pilot supply, it is critical to include business 
aviation's need for ATP pilots in any forecast of pilot demand. For 
example, Boeing's annual forecast is regularly cited as an accurate 
forecast for pilot demand. Lately, it has been used to validate that 
the United States is producing enough pilots to meet demand since it 
projects a need of 6,400 pilots a year through 2041 for North America, 
which is below the average ATP production over the last 5 years. 
However, Boeing's forecast does not include demand for pilots from 
business aviation, regional airlines who operate aircraft with less 
than 30 seats, and helicopters. Boeing stopped including demand for 
these segments of the industry in 2021. However, it should be noted 
that in its 2020 forecast, when those groups were last included, Boeing 
projected an annual need of slightly over 10,000 pilots per year for 
North America through 2039.
         High Barriers to a Pilot Career Compounds the Shortage
    Unfortunately, as it relates to pilots, no amount of generated 
interest and no amount of investment in salaries can address the sky-
high cost of flight education and training. Sadly, those costs keep 
many from pursuing the career path. Airlines are stepping into the 
void, but they can't advance a holistic solution that ensures financial 
access for everyone who is prepared to put in the work to become a 
pilot.
    Flight education and training at an FAA-certificated pilot school 
costs around $80,000. This cost can then dramatically increase to over 
$200,000 when combined with the added expenses associated with a 
bachelor's degree. The result is that only the most fortunate or 
affluent pursue the career path, which is one of the chief reasons the 
pilot population has very limited diversity. According to the Census 
Bureau's Labor Force Statistics Demographic Data for Pilots & Flight 
Engineers,\13\ the pilot profession is not diverse--95.7% of the 
profession identifies as White; 9.2 percent Female; 2.6 percent Black; 
1.6 percent Asian; and 9.7 percent Hispanic. Even where economic 
background is not statistically associated with an underrepresented 
population, financial barriers that deter or prevent some candidates 
from pursuing training further constricts an already unacceptably 
narrow pool of potential candidates.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey, 
Bureau of Labor Statistics. See https://www.bls.gov/cps/cpsaat11.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The high cost also makes it very difficult to grow the airline 
pilot populations under 30 years of age, which is by far the smallest 
cohort of working pilots at about 8 percent. The average age of a new 
hire regional airline pilot is in the mid-30s, which is also the median 
age for childbearing. Most pilots come to the profession as a second 
career and most have a college degree.\14\ These pilots were long 
called to the career path but were only able to surmount the financial 
obstacles later in life after they had built up their own savings and 
credit histories.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \14\ Pilot Source Study 2018: https://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/
viewcontent.cgi?article
=1198&context=jate
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       The Pilot Shortage is Resulting in an Air Service Collapse
    The pilot shortage has driven a wholesale collapse in small 
community air service. More than 500 regional aircraft are parked, and 
aircraft remaining in service are being operated between 20-40% less 
than their usual operation. Today, 308 airports in the contiguous 
United States, or 72 percent, have less air service now than they did 
prior to the pandemic. Comparing July 2019 departures to announced July 
2023 schedules, network carriers have exited 73 markets, with almost 
all exits representing a loss of regional lift (See Appendix A).
    Comparing April 2019 flight schedules with April 2023, we see that 
the smallest airports in rural communities have lost the most service. 
Eleven airports have lost all their air service and 136 airports have 
lost more than 25% of their service. For the 53 nonprimary airports 
that lost flights, the average loss was 38 percent; 164 non-hub 
airports also lost flights and the average loss was 32 percent.
    Larger airports, both large and medium hub are also seeing a loss 
of flights as they experience a reduction in air service and 
connectivity to and from small communities. Twenty-one large hub 
airports have lost on average 14 percent of their flights, and 21 
medium hub airports have lost on average 16 percent of their flights. 
From a state-by-state air service perspective, 42 of 50 states have 
less air service today than they did pre-pandemic. Fourteen of these 
states have lost 20 percent or more of their service. (See Appendix B).
    The regional airline pilot workforce was further diminished coming 
out of the pandemic. Network and major carriers, in full partnership 
with their pilot unions, brokered early exit packages that resulted in 
approximately 6,000 pilots separating from their employer. Although 
regional airlines granted virtually no early retirement packages to 
pilots, with the sudden return of demand, larger airlines replenished 
their pilots from the regional airline ranks. Simultaneously, all 
airlines have sought to increase pilot rolls to accommodate growth and 
ensure reliability amidst an increased in nonproductive pilot time 
under COVID and other factors.
    Although these factors amplified the pilot shortage, the number of 
regional airline flight departures had already been declining for 
almost a decade due to the pilot shortage. During this time, numerous 
carriers ceased operating or filed bankruptcy due to a lack of pilots. 
In contrast, during this same period, larger carriers experienced an 
increase in flight departures, reflecting a more sufficient pilot 
workforce. Unfortunately, the contraction in the regional airline 
industry also led to the substantial loss of air service to smaller 
communities. Remarkably, these losses took place during periods of 
sustained economic expansion, when communities ordinarily see more, not 
less, air service.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    The pilot shortage has resulted in a collapse in air service, and 
smaller communities are particularly impacted because they rely 
exclusively on regional airlines for air service. It is vital that 
Congress address the pilot shortage to ensure communities of all sizes 
have access to the National air transportation system.
   Other Workforce Shortages Impacting the Regional Airline Industry
    While the pilot shortage has made headlines, the regional and 
broader airline industry also face a deep shortage of aircraft 
mechanics. According to Oliver Wyman, the North American gap between 
the supply for mechanics and other aircraft maintenance workers and 
demand for them this year will be between 8% and 12%.\15\ By 2027, the 
supply deficit could grow to between 24% to 27%, which represents a gap 
of between 43,000 and 48,000 workers. This shortfall could result in a 
maintenance backlog that leads to fewer flights, and more delays and 
cancellations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2023/jan/
not-enough-aviation-mechanics.html
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    This shortage is driven in large part by an aging baby boomer 
workforce that is preparing to retire, and an insufficient number of 
new or younger mechanics entering the profession. Thousands of 
mechanics retired early during COVID exacerbating the shortage. Today, 
most mechanics are over 40 years old, and less than ten percent of the 
workforce is between 18-30 years old \16\.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ US Bureau of Labor Statistics, Transport Canada, Federal 
Aviation Administration, Oliver Wyman analysis
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While this shortage will impact everyone in the industry, certain 
sectors will feel it worse than others. As is the case with pilots, 
regional airlines serve as the entry point for mechanics and will be 
one of the segments most highly impacted by the shortage. Once 
mechanics gain skill and experience, many move on to work for major 
airlines, which are larger and can offer higher pay and greater 
advancement opportunities. As a result, the workforce at major airlines 
trends older, and they will face the wave of coming retirements sooner, 
forcing them to hire more talent from regional airlines and others. 
Additionally, regional aircraft are disproportionately older. 
Approximately 60 percent of the fleet is no longer being manufactured 
and older aircraft require more maintenance and upkeep. Importantly, 
returning parked aircraft to service involves complex and painstaking 
work to ensure they can resume flying safely. All systems must be 
inspected to ensure the aircraft is airworthy. When we address the 
pilot shortage, as many as 500 parked aircraft can start flying again 
to reconnect the country. Regional airlines will require an ample, 
well-qualified pool of maintenance technicians to return this fleet to 
service.
    Another workforce shortage that is constraining the regional 
airline industry is the shortage of air traffic controllers. The 
controller workforce must be adequately staffed to minimize delays and 
disruptions to passengers. This summer, the FAA is asking all major 
airlines to reduce service by 10 percent at LaGuardia, Kennedy, and 
Reagan National Airport because of a controller shortage at the New 
York Terminal Radar Approach Control (NY TRACON) facility. As of 2022, 
regional airlines were responsible for 52 percent of the departures at 
Reagan, 46 percent of the departures at LaGuardia, and 18 percent of 
the departures at Kennedy. To compensate for these cuts, major airlines 
will decrease the number of regional aircraft flights to transport the 
same or more passengers on mainline narrowbody aircraft. This is the 
same response that major carriers have taken with the pilot shortage, 
and like the pilot shortage, the impact of the controller shortage at 
the NY TRACON will fall disproportionately on passengers from small 
communities. These passengers will endure reduced convenience, and more 
frustration and hardship when disruptions and delays occur amidst fewer 
flight options to set things right.
Actions Being Taken by Regional Airlines to Address Workforce Shortages
    Regional airlines are investing in solutions to attract more 
people, especially pilots and maintenance technicians, to the regional 
airline industry. Part of this strategy includes higher pay. The 
average pay for newly hired regional airline first officers now exceeds 
$100,000 per year.\17\ Regional airline pilot salaries are now 
approximately equivalent to first year, first officer salaries at 
network carriers.\18\ Airlines have also made continuous investments in 
programs designed to spark career interest among candidates who have 
been historically underrepresented in the career.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ https://atpflightschool.com/become-a-pilot/airline-career/
regional-airline-pilot-pay.html
    \18\ https://www.oliverwyman.com/our-expertise/insights/2022/nov/
next-gen-pilots.html
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As one important means of reaching diverse populations, regional 
airlines partner with organizations who regularly engage and support 
underrepresented candidates who are seeking aviation careers, such as 
the Organization for Black Aviation Professionals, National Gay Pilots 
Association, Women in Aviation, Sisters of the Skies, Latinos Pilot 
Association, Professional Asians Pilots Association, and others. This 
engagement includes supporting scholarship programs and attending 
events with these organizations to educate students on the careers and 
opportunities available to them.
    Airline outreach is not limited to college-age students; carriers 
conduct outreach to students in elementary, middle, and high school in 
diverse school districts to help inspire an interest in aviation career 
paths. They also participate in aviation summer camps where students 
tour facilities and aircraft and speak with pilots and senior airline 
leaders about their jobs. All RAA members are engaging with their 
communities and offering opportunities that expose students to 
aviation.
    Service members who are transitioning out of the military as well 
as veterans are also highly sought-after employees because they often 
have transferable skills and training that fits well within the airline 
industry. They also have unique life experiences and backgrounds they 
bring to their work. Carriers regularly conduct outreach on military 
bases that are near hub locations, attend job fairs and events, and 
work with staffing agencies and conferences that are specifically 
intended for recruiting individuals with a military background.
    Additionally, many regional carriers have partnered with larger 
airlines to create pathway programs where pilots work at a regional 
airline before they move to a larger carrier. Pathway programs also 
partner with schools with diverse student populations, including 
minority serving higher education institutions like Historically Black 
Colleges and Hispanic Serving Institutions, as part of their 
recruitment and outreach efforts. These programs are designed to 
identify and prepare candidates for careers as pilots. Once admitted to 
the program, these candidates are mentored by individuals with similar 
backgrounds and life experiences.
    Many airline employees also have long held aspirations to become 
pilots, however, like other individuals, the high cost of training has 
deterred them from realizing this dream. Some regional carriers, like 
Cape Air, have created internal programs to provide financial 
assistance to cover a portion of its employees' flight training 
expenses so that they can fulfill their dream of becoming a pilot. 
Republic Airways has opened its own flight training school called LIFT 
(Leadership in Flight Training) Academy that utilizes state of the art 
equipment and training practices to train the next generation of 
pilots. Students who successfully complete the LIFT career pathway 
program will have a guaranteed pathway to a career as a pilot at the 
air carrier. LIFT Academy costs $97,000 and Republic offers a $15,000 
subsidy making training $82,000. After graduation, Republic offers an 
additional $15,000 in tuition reimbursement, making the cost $67,000. 
Supporting the LIFT academy is an aviation maintenance apprenticeship 
program in partnership with the U.S. Department of Labor. Apprentices 
earn as they learn over a 36-month period, and upon completion will be 
ready to begin a career as an aviation maintenance technician. These 
are but two examples. Multiple regional airlines have started training 
pathway programs in concert with their major airline partners.
           Recommendations for Addressing Workforce Shortages
    If air service is to be preserved and eventually restored, urgent 
action is needed from lawmakers to advance near-term and long-term 
solutions to supplement the actions being taken by airlines and other 
aviation stakeholders to create a sustainable and well-trained 
workforce. Advancing near-term solutions for the pilot shortage is 
particularly important given that most of the workforce is rapidly 
approaching mandatory retirement age. It takes at least three years for 
a pilot to complete flight training and build the required flight hours 
to qualify for an air transport pilot certificate (ATP) and hiring 
eligibility.\19\ Those following four-year degree programs with 
restricted-ATP (R-ATP) authorization, typically take at least five 
years to become eligible for hire.\20\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \19\ ``In part 121 operations, each pilot in command (PIC) and each 
second in command (SIC) are required to have an ATP Certificate. Part 
135 operations requiring the PIC to hold an ATP Certificate with an 
airplane category multiengine class rating are (1) commuter operations 
using multiengine airplanes with nine or fewer passenger seats 
(Scheduled 135), (2) on-demand operations using multiengine airplanes 
with 10 or more passenger seats, or (3) turbojets. Part 91K operations 
require all PICs of multiengine turbine-powered fixed-wing airplanes to 
hold an ATP Certificate.'' See: FAA Advisory Circular 61-138 (July 2, 
2013).
    \20\ FAA regulations allow certain pilots with fewer than 1,500 
hours of flight time to obtain a restricted privileges ATP certificate, 
which permits a pilot to serve as a co-pilot until he or she obtains 
the necessary 1,500 flight hours. See: https://www.faa.gov/pilots/
training/atp.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For all workforce challenges, there is an urgent need for an 
enhanced partnership between the government, labor, and industry 
stakeholders to raise awareness about the transformational jobs 
available in aviation and to ensure that those pursuing these career 
paths have access to educational opportunities to develop the skills 
necessary for success.
                    Solutions for the Pilot Shortage
Near-Term Solution: Raise the Retirement Age for Pilots
    Raising the pilot retirement age is the only solution before this 
Committee that will immediately provide the airline industry access to 
more pilots and help mitigate the air service losses that communities 
are experiencing today. For example, if the retirement age was 
increased to 67, aligning it with the current social security 
retirement age, an additional 5,000 pilots would have the option to 
continue working over the next two years. This is approximately the 
same number of ATPs produced in 2021. If the retirement age was 
increased to 68, which is the current retirement age for pilots in 
Japan, an additional 8,000 pilots could continue working over the next 
three years. It is for this reason that RAA supports the Let 
Experienced Pilots Fly Act of 2023 (H.R. 1761), which has been 
introduced by Congressman Troy Nehls (R-TX). We thank Congressman Nehls 
and Members of this Committee who have cosponsored this critical piece 
of legislation.
    For the regional airline industry, increasing the retirement age is 
a particularly impactful solution because it will also help address the 
captain shortage. The overwhelming number of pilots who are approaching 
retirement age work at larger air carriers and when they retire, it 
sets off a domino effect of upgrades resulting in the departure of 
regional airline captains or captain ready first officers. Increasing 
the retirement age will slow attrition and provide regional carriers 
with the opportunity to stabilize their workforce. This in turn can 
help to preserve and eventually grow service to the communities that 
rely on us for air service.
    As this Committee knows, Congress increased the retirement age from 
60 to 65 in 2007. Aviation safety wasn't weakened then, and it won't be 
if the retirement age is increased again as long as existing regulatory 
safeguards that mitigate risk are continued. Today's older pilots must 
undergo mandatory medical examinations every six months. Additionally, 
all pilots have their skills regularly evaluated in flight simulators 
to ensure proficiency. Existing regulations also require two pilots in 
the cockpit. Because most Part 135 operators are not subject to a 
retirement age, pilots over the age of 65 are currently providing 
scheduled, passenger service safely as part of the EAS Program.
Long-Term Solution: Advance Aviation Safety by Expanding Structure 
        Training Pathways and Incorporating Modern Technology in Pilot 
        Training
    RAA is not seeking, in any way, to reduce the pilot training 
requirements put in place in the 2010 Airline Safety Act. In that Act, 
Congress wisely gave the FAA the authority to allow for constant 
improvements to and modernization of pilot training programs. RAA is 
seeking the Committee's support to ensure the FAA fully utilizes its 
existing authority in a way that continuously enhances safety.
    In the last ten years, there have been vast advancements in 
academic training programs, including flight simulation technology. 
Flight simulators allow instructors to build a robust curriculum and 
use high-fidelity simulation technology to train on emergencies, 
adverse weather conditions, and crew resource management techniques in 
a multi-crew environment. This allows mastery of skills that are 
crucial for commercial flying but are too dangerous to attempt or 
impossible to replicate in small, single-engine aircraft. Simulators 
also keep performance data to allow better evaluation of a pilot's 
performance and scenarios can be repeated until the skills have been 
mastered.
    Unfortunately, today's R-ATP pathways have not advanced alongside 
these technological and programmatic developments and the safety 
benefits they offer. Structured training pathways offer more training, 
not less, and should be encouraged when they advance safety. The FAA 
must additionally ensure that hours spent using modern training methods 
and technologies that allow for such challenging and reality-based 
experiences are credited and weighted for pilots working to meet the 
1,500-flight hour requirement. This will enhance safety, incentivize 
continuous improvements in pilot training programs, and allow new 
pilots to receive the best, most modern, and targeted training 
available.
    In 2013, the FAA implemented its new First Officer Qualifications 
(FOQ) rule with the prerequisite 1,500-flight hours as one ATP training 
pathway. The FAA also established three other training pathways (R-
ATPs), allowing some structured academic training to be credited toward 
flight hours. These R-ATPs allow military pilots to receive credit for 
750-flight hours; graduates with a BA in aviation to receive credit for 
500-flight hours; and graduates with an AA in aviation to receive 
credit for 250-flight hours.
    In the last ten years, the FAA has not updated the FOQ rule to 
incorporate advancements in pilot training and flight simulator 
technology. Yet, when it was published, FAA acknowledged the rule did 
not exhaust the possibilities for R-ATP pathways. The FAA said the 
decision was based on the ``best currently available scientific data 
and information,'' and in the rule explicitly noted the need for 
regulatory review:

        ``In the future, however, FAA is likely to gather and analyze 
        additional data in this area; for example, through safety 
        outcomes resulting from this rule, and additional information 
        collections associated with other rulemakings. . . . Because of 
        the likely availability of such data in the future, the FAA may 
        obtain additional empirical evidence relevant to the precise 
        relationship between flight hours and types of training. For 
        example, Phase III of the Pilot Source Study, explained 
        elsewhere in this preamble, suggests areas for further 
        research.'' \21\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \21\ https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/rulemaking/
recently_published/media/2120-aj67.pdf -- p 26)

    Two updates of the Pilot Source Study used by the FAA in 
formulating the FOQ rule, have produced peer-reviewed, empirical data. 
Each study demonstrated that R-ATP pathways are superior to hours-based 
qualification pathways and further showed a marked deterioration of 
pilot skill occurs while pilots build undisciplined flight hours 
between foundational training and being hired by an airline.\22\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ https://www.pilotsourcestudy.org, PSS 2015 and PSS 2018)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Notably, the FAA hasn't approved an R-ATP pathway for pilots who 
complete training at FAA-certificated flight schools, preventing the 
thousands of pilots from receiving more and better pilot training. It 
was Congress's intention to make safety enhancing pilot training 
improvements available to as many pilots as possible not just graduates 
of military and qualifying collegiate flight programs. In 2009, during 
consideration of the underlying bill, then Aviation Subcommittee 
Chairman Jerry F. Costello (D-IL) described this portion of the bill as 
follows:

        `` . . . because pilot groups, the FAA administrator and flight 
        education universities have all cited the need to strengthen 
        pilot academic training, the bill allows the FAA administrator 
        to give credit towards the 1,500-flight-hour requirements if a 
        flight school or a university provides academic training that 
        exceeds the strengthened minimum ATP requirements in the 
        bill.'' \23\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \23\ CREC-2009-10-14-pt1-PgH11328.pdf (congress.gov); emphasis 
added.

    In the years since the FOQ rule was adopted, only about one-third 
of pilots who receive their ATP do so through the R-ATP pathways. Entry 
to these pathways is limited by financial, geographic, and access 
barriers. Additionally, most pilots who complete flight training at 
flight schools already have a college degree and can't rationalize 
going back to school to get a professional pilot degree (an AA or BA.)



    Despite additional empirical evidence on the relationship between 
flight hours and types of training and despite huge advancements in 
pilot training programs and technology, the FAA has done nothing to 
carry out the intent of Congress or incentivize continual improvement 
in pilot training programs. Airlines and highly credentialed pilot 
training institutions are requesting more safety enhancing R-ATP 
pathways that integrate flight time with support from modern training 
technologies, flight simulators, and advanced flight training devices. 
This will unequivocally enhance aviation safety and improve pilot 
training and proficiency by ensuring that pilots get the relevant 
experience the right way.
Long-Term Solution: Remove Financial Barriers to Becoming a Pilot
    Regional airlines are investing in solutions to attract more people 
into the career path and to retain our existing workforce. As noted, 
the average pay for newly hired regional airline first officers now 
exceeds $100,000 per year.\24\ Additionally, according to the Bureau of 
Labor Statistics, the median annual wages for airline pilots, copilots, 
and flight engineers in scheduled air transportation was $207,000 in 
May 2021.\25\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ https://atpflightschool.com/become-a-pilot/airline-career/
regional-airline-pilot-pay.html
    \25\ https://www.bls.gov/ooh/transportation-and-material-moving/
airline-and-commercial-pilots.htm#tab-5; last available data.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Unfortunately, the life changing financial opportunities available 
to pilots working today, are walled off behind systemic barriers that 
impair career access. Chief among these barriers is the high cost of 
flight education and training, which on its own costs around $80,000, 
and can dramatically increase to over $200,000 when combined with the 
added costs associated with a bachelor's degree. Federal financial aid 
is insufficient to facilitate a financial pathway for undergraduate 
students. This forces those who don't come from wealth to borrow from 
private lenders with high interest rates, assuming their parents 
qualify or want to shoulder the financial burden. Many families lack 
the credit histories and scores necessary to qualify for aid and are 
locked out altogether. Unlike other career paths that require 
additional professional credentialing, such as doctors and lawyers, 
accredited pilot training programs can't access additional lending 
available through graduate aid programs to cover the higher costs.
    This is why increasing the student loan cap for accredited flight 
education and training programs to help cover the higher costs 
associated with these programs is critical. This will provide a 
financial pathway to everyone, which will both grow and diversify the 
profession. RAA anticipates that legislation will be introduced soon in 
the House of Representatives to increase the student loan cap for 
accredited flight education and training programs and urges Members of 
this Committee to support it.
    In addition to increasing student loan caps, lawmakers should 
consider expanding and amending the Section 625 workforce development 
grant program for pilots to enhance outreach to the next generation of 
pilots.\26\ The workforce program should be expanded to support 
activities related to pilot recruitment and training to help ensure 
long-term growth and diversification of the pilot profession. 
Activities should target outreach to school-age children and 
underrepresented populations along with training for commercial pilots.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \26\ FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018, sec. 625; P.L. 115-254 
(October 5, 2018).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lawmakers should also consider expanding GI bill benefits to cover 
the full cost of flight training at FAA-approved pilot schools and 
allow the GI bill to cover private pilot certificates. Forcing veterans 
to pay for the private pilot certificates, which typically costs 
between $10,000 to $15,000, is a deterrent, and FAA-approved pilot 
schools are typically the lowest cost and quickest route to qualifying 
for an ATP. Passenger and cargo carriers no longer require commercial 
airline pilots to have a college degree, leaving little justification 
for continuing the current policy of discouraging veterans from 
pursuing this educational pathway. Lastly, flight education and 
training expenses incurred at FAA approved pilot training schools don't 
qualify for 529 plans--tax advantaged investment accounts that are used 
to save for a child's education. Lawmakers should support Rep. Mike 
Collin's (R-GA) Aviation Workforce Development Act (H.R.1818) to 
address the inequitable treatment of flight training programs.
           Solutions for the Maintenance Technician Shortage
Expand Sec. 625 Grant Programs for Maintenance Technicians
    Section 625 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018 authorized $10 
million to recruit and train maintenance technicians and pilots.\27\ 
FAA initiated the program in 2021 and received more than 300 
applications. Congress should expand the Maintenance Technician Program 
and make modifications to improve access to grant resources and ensure 
that successful programs can continue to receive funding and improve 
FAA's implementation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \27\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Improve the Transition of Military Maintenance Professionals to Civil 
        Aviation
    The Aviation Technician Education Council estimates the civil 
aviation industry is capturing less than 10 percent of exiting veterans 
with aviation maintenance experience, in part because there is no clear 
path from the military to civil certification. The FAA reauthorization 
bill should include direction to the FAA to create a military 
competency examination that will provide a pathway to mechanic 
certification for servicemen and women, like what is available for 
military pilots. The FAA should also expedite repairman certificate 
applications for individuals with military technical experience 
applicable to aviation maintenance, even those from non-aviation 
specialties.
      Regional Airlines' Top Priority is Advancing Aviation Safety
    Today's unprecedented level of aviation safety is because Congress, 
the FAA, and aviation stakeholders, have continually worked together to 
evolve how we both detect and respond to risks to ensure that the 
United States operates the safest aviation system in the world. This 
Committee can take much credit for the United States' amazing aviation 
safety record and the many safety improvements mandated in the last 
decade, including in the FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, the 
FAA Extension, Safety, and Security Act of 2016, the FAA 
Reauthorization Act of 2018, and the 2020 Aircraft Certification, 
Safety, and Accountability Act.
    Other key elements of this risk-based safety oversight system that 
have been developed and implemented by the FAA, industry, and labor in 
the last two decades include: the Commercial Aviation Safety Team 
(CAST); the Aviation Safety Information and Analysis Sharing (ASIAS) 
system; Aviation Safety Infoshare; the FAA's Safety Assurance System 
(SAS); and industry's Safety Management Systems (SMS).
    Many of these safety systems and tools rely upon the use of 
unbiased, empirical data to detect, assess, and respond to risk 
appropriately. When this process is politicalized, the data is 
misrepresented or misinterpreted, or stakeholders are vilified, the 
process breaks down and risk is introduced.
    For years, RAA has been raising the alarm that the 1,500-flight 
hour requirement is not having the intended effect of improving pilot 
training. Regional airlines have been warning that pilots entering 
airline training programs today are less prepared for the part 121 
flying environment. This is because, despite their high flight time, 
they have not mastered swept wing jet aerodynamics, they lack crucial 
experience in congested airspace, they have no experience recovering 
from high altitude upsets, they have not experienced engine fires, 
failures, or other mechanical problems, they have never experienced 
icing, they have never operated in a thunderstorm, they have never 
experienced wind shear, and they have no experience operating in a 
multi-crew environment or using crew resource management, a cornerstone 
of flight safety.
    In response to these deficiencies, regional airlines have had to 
act on their own to make sure that pilots have the relevant experience 
to fly for a commercial airline. Airlines must conduct remedial 
training to provide skills that should be part of a pilot's foundation 
but simply aren't. To keep flying safe, every regional airline has 
significantly expanded its training footprint to provide more classroom 
time, extra simulator and other training sessions, and have had to 
lengthen initial operating experience time before pilots are ready to 
fly. Airlines also fail out more candidates today than they did before 
the qualification standards favored flight time over quality training. 
The result is that too many pilots waste their time and money on flight 
training and time building that leaves them ill-prepared for working at 
a regional airline. RAA has never sought to weaken aviation safety, 
instead we have consistently called for improvements to pilot training 
because the current standard permits the accumulation of simple flight 
hours, including in a hot air balloon, that do nothing to improve pilot 
skills and instead lengthen the time since a pilot has completed 
training and becomes eligible for hire, a period where skills are lost 
today.
    Impeccable, empirical data from numerous peer reviewed studies \28\ 
have continued to validate the conclusion reached by the FAA years 
ago--that the 1,500-flight hour requirement has no relationship to 
accident prevention and does not enhance pilot training.\29\ In fact, 
the same studies FAA relied on to formulate new standards have been 
updated several times. Most importantly to today's hearing, each has 
demonstrated the fallacy of relying on flight time as a proxy for pilot 
experience, instead showing harm.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \28\ https://www.pilotsourcestudy.org/
    \29\ FAA Office of Aviation Policy and Plans Economic Analysis 
Division its Final Regulatory Evaluation Pilot Certification and 
Qualification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations, June 2013: ``The 
FAA reviewed the accidents in the National Transportation Safety Board 
(NTSB) accident database over the period 2001-2010 and, based on broad 
search criteria, found 31 accidents where it appeared that the rule's 
training and type rating requirements might have prevented or mitigated 
the accident. AVP also attempted to quantify the benefits of the 1,500-
hour requirement, but AVP found no relationship between the 1,500-hour 
requirement and airplane accident.'' See: https://www.regulations.gov/
document/FAA-2010-0100-1925
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Two separate Aviation Rulemaking Advisory Committees have also 
recommended that the FAA increase the number of R-ATP pathways. 
Unfortunately, these recommendations have been misconstrued, and in 
some cases, shouted down. Fear and emotion are injected into the 
conversation that should be based on facts and data. For over ten 
years, this has prevented incorporating advancements in pilot training 
methods, curriculum, and technology into the 1,500-flight hour 
framework. Improvements that are heralded and recognized as safety 
enhancing for commercial and airline pilots are somehow inappropriate 
and counter-productive for pilots with less than 1,500 flight hours 
despite being heavily utilized to train pilots outside the United 
States.
    Last month, I joined Secretary Buttigieg and Acting Administrator 
Nolen at the FAA Safety Summit. Stakeholders were called together to 
address an increase in aviation incidents on taxiways and runways. The 
Acting Administrator urged attendees to ask ourselves difficult and 
sometimes uncomfortable questions to strengthen aviation safety. We 
need to apply that same standard to the 1,500 hour requirement to 
ensure we are producing the best trained, highest quality pilots in the 
world.
                               Conclusion
    RAA and our members look forward to working closely with this 
Committee to advance solutions to the aviation workforce shortages, 
including the development of a strong supply of safe, well-trained 
pilots. Advancing long- and short-term solutions to aviation workforce 
shortages will be needed in order to stop air service loss and restore 
connectivity and the economic and societal benefits that air service 
brings. Above all, safety will remain our top priority. Every solution 
must ensure the continued safety of our passengers, crewmembers and the 
public.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
                               Appendix A

      Market Exits By Carriers that Partner with Regional Airlines
  Comparison of Air Service from July 2019 vs. Announced Schedules for
                                July 2023
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alaska Airlines.........................................................
------------------------------------------------------------------------
DUT.............................  Dutch Harbor......  AK
------------------------------------------------------------------------
American Airlines.......................................................
------------------------------------------------------------------------
MEI.............................  Meridian..........  MS
TOL.............................  Toledo (US) OH....  OH
HVN.............................  New Haven.........  CT
PIB.............................  Hattiesburg/Laurel  MS
                                   (US) MS.
DRT.............................  Del Rio...........  TX
JLN.............................  Joplin............  MO
ITH.............................  Ithaca............  NY
ISP.............................  Islip.............  NY
DLH.............................  Duluth............  MN
CYS.............................  Cheyenne..........  WY
OAK.............................  Oakland...........  CA
SUX.............................  Sioux City........  IA
MHK.............................  Manhattan.........  KS
SWF.............................  New York..........  NY
LGB.............................  Long Beach........  CA
DBQ.............................  Dubuque...........  IA
IPT.............................  Williamsport......  PA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delta Air Lines.........................................................
------------------------------------------------------------------------
EWN.............................  New Bern..........  NC
AVP.............................  Wilkes-Barre/       PA
                                   Scranton.
ISN.............................  Williston (US) ND.  ND
CAK.............................  Akron/Canton......  OH
APN.............................  Alpena............  MI
SCE.............................  State College.....  PA
FSM.............................  Fort Smith (US) AR  AR
SWF.............................  New York..........  NY
MHT.............................  Manchester (US) NH  NH
ASE.............................  Aspen.............  CO
PIA.............................  Peoria............  IL
PHF.............................  Newport News/       VA
                                   Williamsburg.
ERI.............................  Erie..............  PA
COD.............................  Cody..............  WY
GJT.............................  Grand Junction....  CO
FNT.............................  Flint.............  MI
LNK.............................  Lincoln...........  NE
LSE.............................  La Crosse.........  WI
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hawaiian Airlines.......................................................
------------------------------------------------------------------------
JHM.............................  Kapalua...........  HI
MKK.............................  Hoolehua..........  HI
LNY.............................  Lanai City........  HI
------------------------------------------------------------------------
United Airlines.........................................................
------------------------------------------------------------------------
PBG.............................  Plattsburgh.......  NY
ELM.............................  Elmira/Corning....  NY
STS.............................  Santa Rosa (US) CA  CA
MLU.............................  Monroe............  LA
UIN.............................  Quincy (US) IL....  IL
MMH.............................  Mammoth Lakes.....  CA
CKB.............................  Clarksburg........  WV
CWA.............................  Wausau............  WI
ISN.............................  Williston (US) ND.  ND
RST.............................  Rochester (US) MN.  MN
CLL.............................  College Station...  TX
EAR.............................  Kearney...........  NE
MKG.............................  Muskegon..........  MI
EAU.............................  Eau Claire........  WI
SPI.............................  Springfield.......  IL
ERI.............................  Erie..............  PA
ITO.............................  Hilo..............  HI
SHD.............................  Staunton/           VA
                                   Waynesborough.
LWB.............................  Lewisburg.........  WV
VPS.............................  Destin/Ft Walton    FL
                                   Beach.
EVV.............................  Evansville........  IN
PUB.............................  Pueblo............  CO
PIR.............................  Pierre............  SD
FLG.............................  Grand Canyon (US)   AZ
                                   AZ.
CGI.............................  Cape Girardeau....  MO
LAN.............................  Lansing...........  MI
GRK.............................  Killeen/Fort Hood.  TX
PAE.............................  Everett...........  WA
AEX.............................  Alexandria (US) LA  LA
PAH.............................  Paducah...........  KY
AZO.............................  Kalamazoo/Battle    MI
                                   Creek (US) MI.
COU.............................  Columbia (US) MO..  MO
OGS.............................  Ogdensburg........  NY
ATY.............................  Watertown (US) SD.  SD
------------------------------------------------------------------------
OAG Published Schedules July 2019 vs. July 2023

                               Appendix B

                          Comparison of Air Service By State April 2019 vs. April 2023
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                                          Sum of Frequency
                             State                              ------------------------------------   % Change
                                                                  2019-04    2023-04    Grand Total
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AK.............................................................    28,644      23,659        52,303         -17%
AL.............................................................     3,857       2,977         6,834         -23%
AR.............................................................     3,153       2,634         5,787       -16.5%
AZ.............................................................    19,082      18,665        37,747        -2.2%
CA.............................................................    76,243      65,396       141,639       -14.2%
CO.............................................................    26,158      27,781        53,939         6.2%
CT.............................................................     2,779       2,504         5,283        -9.9%
DE.............................................................                    47            47       100.0%
FL.............................................................    60,776      63,126       123,902         3.9%
GA.............................................................    38,618      32,671        71,289       -15.4%
HI.............................................................    13,321      14,565        27,886         9.3%
IA.............................................................     3,065       2,066         5,131       -32.6%
ID.............................................................     2,506       2,598         5,104         3.7%
IL.............................................................    44,618      34,966        79,584       -21.6%
IN.............................................................     6,222       5,045        11,267       -18.9%
KS.............................................................     1,470       1,261         2,731       -14.2%
KY.............................................................     8,037       6,455        14,492       -19.7%
LA.............................................................     7,464       6,326        13,790       -15.2%
MA.............................................................    15,856      15,274        31,130        -3.7%
MD.............................................................     9,817       8,261        18,078       -15.9%
ME.............................................................     1,844       1,611         3,455       -12.6%
MI.............................................................    19,777      14,310        34,087       -27.6%
MN.............................................................    15,995      12,269        28,264       -23.3%
MO.............................................................    13,315      10,998        24,313       -17.4%
MS.............................................................     1,484       1,272         2,756       -14.3%
MT.............................................................     2,997       2,769         5,766        -7.6%
NC.............................................................    32,241      27,721        59,962       -14.0%
ND.............................................................     1,869       1,463         3,332       -21.7%
NE.............................................................     3,085       2,459         5,544       -20.3%
NH.............................................................     1,159         841         2,000       -27.4%
NJ.............................................................    16,317      16,269        32,586        -0.3%
NM.............................................................     2,843       2,732         5,575        -3.9%
NV.............................................................    16,496      18,365        34,861        11.3%
NY.............................................................    39,021      38,918        77,939        -0.3%
OH.............................................................    10,931       8,209        19,140       -24.9%
OK.............................................................     3,888       3,439         7,327       -11.5%
OR.............................................................     9,179       7,432        16,611       -19.0%
PA.............................................................    22,638      15,905        38,543       -29.7%
RI.............................................................     1,696       2,147         3,843        26.6%
SC.............................................................     5,883       6,058        11,941         3.0%
SD.............................................................     1,305       1,132         2,437       -13.3%
TN.............................................................    12,573      12,524        25,097        -0.4%
TX.............................................................    71,735      68,492       140,227        -4.5%
UT.............................................................    10,681       9,754        20,435        -8.7%
VA.............................................................    27,590      25,036        52,626        -9.3%
VT.............................................................     1,081         848         1,929       -21.6%
WA.............................................................    20,270      18,865        39,135        -6.9%
WI.............................................................     6,145       4,535        10,680       -26.2%
WV.............................................................     1,017         778         1,795       -23.5%
WY.............................................................       778         671         1,449       -13.8%
                                                                ------------------------------------------------
  Grand Total..................................................   747,519     674,099     1,421,618        -9.8%
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OAG Published Schedules April 2019 vs. April 2023


    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Ms. Black. Dr. DeVito [sic], you are 
recognized for 5 minutes for your opening testimony.
    Ms. DeVivo. It's DeVivo, but that's OK.
    Mr. Yakym. DeVivo. I apologize.

TESTIMONY OF SHARON B. DeVIVO, Ed.D., PRESIDENT, VAUGHN COLLEGE

    Ms. DeVivo. Members of the Subcommittee on Aviation, thank 
you so much for allowing me to speak to this esteemed group. I 
am honored to be part of this panel of engaged leaders who are 
working to provide opportunities to the next-generation 
workforce.
    I come here today to offer two perspectives: The first is 
as the chair of the Youth Access to American Jobs in Aviation 
Task Force, a group of 21 members charged by Congress to look 
at how we provide a growing workforce pipeline to the aviation 
and aerospace industry. We developed 21 recommendations to 
address this challenge.
    The second perspective is as the president of Vaughn 
College of Aeronautics and Technology, a private, nonprofit 
institution in New York City. We offer certifications and 
degree programs in aviation.
    The task force provided a roadmap for implementation with a 
set of actionable items using documented best practices and 
initiatives designed to grow the workforce. The overwhelming 
evidence to our talent shortfall lies in young people from 
currently underrepresented groups who are unaware of the jobs 
available in this sector and the transformational opportunities 
they represent.
    This industry has been an unknown opportunity for these 
communities, including rural communities. Building awareness 
needs to be begin at age 10 when students are exploring their 
passions and their interests are formed. The key to this effort 
is creating a one-stop-shop website. This resource for students 
and families would provide information and support to join the 
industry. Eighteen is the second critical time when students 
and families are making training and education decisions, and 
the pathway needs to be clearly defined and communicated.
    The next hurdle is funding. We must also make the pathway 
affordable so that students from every economic background can 
pursue the needed credentials to join the workforce. Among the 
recommendations: decrease the cost of flight training by 
increasing the allowable simulator time for pilot 
certification; increasing the maximum Pell grant for students; 
developing a national aviation scholarship program; increasing 
donations to aerospace education programs; increasing the 
current FAA Workforce Development Grant program from $10 
million to $50 million, as well as increasing funds to support 
the FAA's oversight of that program and leveraging their 
regulatory oversight to lower costs by updating its personnel 
and certification standards.
    The connective tissue that links these recommendations 
together is the need to communicate at the regional and 
national level. We suggest a model based on the nine regions of 
the FAA.
    The Regional Advisory Councils would collaborate on 
pathways, best practices, and resources with a representative 
from each regional council forming a National Advisory Council 
that would monitor efforts and design metrics for success. 
These councils could be managed and coordinated by the FAA's 
Aviation and Space Education Office.
    We further encourage the FAA to seek out partnerships with 
the Department of Labor, the Department of Education, and 
others to facilitate communication and alignment of national 
priorities that shape training and certification pathways.
    As an educational institution that serves a primarily 
underserved and underrepresented population, Vaughn College 
understands firsthand the challenges that students from 
underresourced communities face. We serve a population of about 
1,200; 80 percent are from underrepresented backgrounds, and 
most are first generation.
    The average family income for a Vaughn aviation maintenance 
student is about $34,000, and for all other programs, about 
$42,000. An aviation maintenance student has a 55-percent gap 
between the cost of tuition and Federal and State financial aid 
and a 48-percent gap for all others.
    For our flight students, the cost of training is an 
additional $75,000 to $85,000. Many families do not qualify for 
a parent PLUS loan and turn to the alternative loan market 
where the interest rates are high. Doubling Pell would provide 
greater financial support.
    Congress could also consider the Flight Education Access 
Act to increase the subsidized and unsubsidized loan limits. 
Families could carry the debt with a competitive interest rate, 
and an income-based repayment option would allow affordable 
repayment.
    Congress could also do more to support minority-serving 
institutions with grants for simulation equipment, curriculum 
development, and faculty, like the options available through 
the Department of Education with title V and title III grants. 
This effort could be coordinated with a cooperative 
relationship between the FAA and DOE.
    The future will only become more challenging with advanced 
air mobility and uncrewed aerial vehicles. The current 
workforce demands do not factor in the technicians, pilots, 
vertiport managers, and engineers needed for these burgeoning 
fields. The FAA needs the staffing and operational support to 
meet these demands.
    We have the roadmap, now we need commitment to invest in 
building a pipeline that supplies the workforce for the future. 
Thank you.
    [Ms. DeVivo's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
   Prepared Statement of Sharon B. DeVivo, Ed.D., President, Vaughn 
                                College
    Members of the Subcommittee on Aviation, thank you so much for 
allowing me to speak to this esteemed group. I am honored to be part of 
this panel of engaged leaders who are working to provide incredible 
opportunities to the next generation of the aviation and aerospace 
workforce.
    I come here today to offer two perspectives. The first is as the 
Chair of the Youth Access to American Jobs in Aviation Task Force 
(YIATF), a group of 21 members charged by Congress to look at how we 
provide a growing workforce pipeline to the aviation and aerospace 
industry. Our Task Force developed 21 recommendations to help move our 
country forward in addressing this challenge which we will face for the 
next two decades. The second perspective that I bring to you today is 
as the president and chief executive officer of Vaughn College of 
Aeronautics and Technology, a private, non-profit, Minority-Serving 
Institution located directly across the street from LaGuardia Airport. 
We offer master's, bachelor's and associate degrees as well as 
certificate programs in all aspects of aviation. We are a unique 
institution in that we offer a variety of entry points into the 
industry from a 16-month aviation maintenance training program and 
associate degrees that provide a pathway to air traffic control to an 
engineering degree that is coveted by aerospace companies seeking 
automation manufacturing expertise and a graduate degree in aviation 
management.
    As you know, we face an unprecedented need for maintenance 
technicians and pilots for the next 20 years, according to Boeing and 
Airbus forecasts as well as engineers, air traffic controllers and 
airport managers. Right now, the United States is not producing enough 
qualified talent to meet the demand, which is why we must expand the 
existing pipeline to include opportunities for underserved populations 
especially minorities and women who have not been exposed to these 
fields. Prospective students and their families want to know that 
aviation is a high-tech, in-demand field with well-paying jobs and a 
solid career outlook.
    The Task Force, comprised of individuals from industry, non-
profits, trade associations, and educators completed their work this 
past fall and provided a roadmap for implementation with a set of 
actionable items using documented best practices and initiatives 
designed specifically to open pathways for underrepresented and 
underserved groups. The Task Force determined four key areas where 
industry, education, youth-serving organizations and the federal 
government can work together to build the workforce pipeline. The areas 
include:
      Early Awareness and Engagement
      Building a One-Stop Shop of Information on the Web
      Collaborating to Create a Connected Pathway
      Funding the Opportunity

    The overwhelming evidence pointed to the ready solution to our 
talent shortfall lies in young people from currently underrepresented 
groups who are unaware of the jobs available in this sector and the 
transformational opportunities they represent. For too long, this 
industry has been an unknown opportunity for these communities, 
including rural communities. Building awareness, based on our research, 
needs to begin at roughly at the age of 10 when students are exploring 
their passions and their interests are formed. Creating greater 
awareness at the middle and elementary school levels can lead to 
greater engagement at the high school level. Key to this effort is 
creating a one-stop shop website that could be coordinated by the 
proposed legislation for the National Center for the Advancement of 
Aviation Act. This website would act as a resource for students and 
families in finding out about organizations in that region to support 
interest, information about all of the career options available, the 
options for training and education as well as a resource for 
scholarships and other funding resources.
    The other critical age, we learned, is 18 when students and 
families are making training and education decisions and the pathway to 
a transformational future needs to be clearly defined and communicated.
    By building the awareness early, and providing role models who look 
like the students from unrepresented communities that we want to reach, 
we can increase the long-term engagement level, create a sense of 
belonging and lead young people to enroll in collegiate and technical 
training programs. Finally, we must make the pathway affordable so that 
students from low socioeconomic backgrounds can pursue the needed 
credentials to join the industry, whether aviation maintenance, flight 
or engineering.
    After awareness of aviation, the single largest hurdle for young 
people to join the industry is funding. Among the seven recommendations 
made by the task force are: decreasing the cost of flight training by 
increasing the allowable simulator time for pilot certification; 
increasing the maximum Pell Grant for students; developing a national 
aviation scholarship program with specific criteria and approved 
programs; increasing donations to aerospace education programs by 
increasing corporate tax benefits; increasing the current FAA Workforce 
Grant Program from $10 million to $50 million as well as increasing 
funds to support the FAA's oversight of that program; and leveraging 
the FAA's regulatory oversight to lower costs by updating its personnel 
and certification standards.
    The Task Force also made a recommendation for a longer-term 
multifaceted aerospace workforce development program to provide 
sustainable funding to nonprofit organizations and institutions so they 
can spend more time serving students and less time looking for funding. 
This program, along with other recommendations, is one of several that 
would require Congressional action. (Greater details for these can be 
found in the report which is available at: https://www.faa.gov/
regulations_policies/rulemaking/committees/documents/index.cfm/
document/information/documentID/5703)
    We believe the connective tissue that links these recommendations 
together is the need to communicate at the regional and national level. 
We suggest a model, based on the nine regions of the FAA, that allows 
for better understanding of the aviation and aerospace needs of every 
sector of this country and a way to share our successes. The suggested 
Regional Advisory Councils would collaborate on pathways, best 
practices, resources and more with a representative from each regional 
council forming a National Advisory Council that would monitor efforts, 
share success from around the country and design metrics for success. 
Ideally, these Councils would be managed and coordinated by the FAA's 
Aviation and Space Education Office regional coordinators.
    Without continuing this conversation beyond the Task Force, we will 
not make the progress we need to shape the workforce pipeline. That 
ability to work together was also identified by the Task Force at the 
federal level as well--we encourage the FAA to seek out partnerships 
with the Department of Labor (DOL), the Department of Education (DOE) 
and others to facilitate communication and alignment of national 
priorities that shape training and certification pathways. Two examples 
include: 1. Offer Job Corps training through a partnership between the 
FAA and DOL. 2. The FAA could collaborate with DOE on the various 
career readiness platforms available to high school students in a 
public-private partnership to provide the free flow of information 
about the myriad of job opportunities in aviation and the pathway to 
those options (more potential partnerships are suggested in the Task 
Force report, see link above).
    As an educational institution that serves a primarily underserved 
and underrepresented population, Vaughn College understands firsthand 
the challenges that students from under resourced communities.
    Founded in 1932, we offer master's, bachelor's, associate degrees 
and certificate programs in all aspects of aviation including flight, 
aviation maintenance, air traffic control (Vaughn is an FAA-approved 
Air Traffic-Collegiate Training Institute), flight dispatch, as well as 
engineering, airport/airline management and other technologies. We 
serve a population of about 1,200 students (500 students in aviation 
maintenance, 400 students in flight and airport/airline management and 
about 300 in engineering and engineering technology); 80 percent are 
from underrepresented backgrounds and most are first-generation 
Americans and first-generation college students. In our most recent 
incoming first-year class, 21 percent were women.
    Our students are among the neediest. The average family income for 
a Vaughn aviation maintenance student is about $34,000 and for all 
other programs it is about $42,000. On average an aviation maintenance 
student has 55% gap between the cost of tuition and the financial aid 
available and for all other Vaughn degree programs the gap is 48%. In a 
recent survey of our students' financial circumstances, 72% worry about 
having enough money to pay for school and 20% ran out of money six or 
more times in the past year. In addition, 32% reported housing 
insecurity and 28% had very low food security with 40% working more 
than 40 hours per week.
    For our flight students, the cost of flight training is an 
additional $75,0000 to $85,000 on top of tuition. Many of our families 
do not qualify for a PLUS loan (the traditional loan offered to parents 
of students) because of their credit scores or lack of credit and must 
turn to the alternative loan market where the interest rates are much 
higher. Doubling Pell would provide the financial support that our 
students need to achieve their goals and get them to the industry. 
Congress should also consider the Flight Education Access Act, which 
would significantly increase the subsidized and unsubsidized loan 
limits. This would allow families to carry the debt with a competitive 
interest rate, and given the fact that new graduates must still 
complete hundreds of hours of flight time as Certified Flight 
Instructors at an hourly pay rate of less than $30 an hour, an income-
based repayment option through the federal government would allow that 
student to afford those loan payments while also covering basic needs.
    When students graduate the outcomes are exceptional: Within one 
year of graduation 92% of those students are employed or continuing 
their education (prior to the pandemic we were at 99%; 76% in their 
field. For graduates who pursue an aviation maintenance degree or 
certification, those skills are also transferable to a variety of 
fields including other forms of transportation, offshore and onshore 
wind, public utilities and manufacturing.
    In a 2017 study done by the Equality of Opportunity Project 
published in the New York Times (that has not been replicated), 
examined more than 2,100 institutions that were the best at moving 
students from the bottom 40 percent in income to the top and Vaughn was 
number one in the country. That is the evidence of the transformation 
possible with a Vaughn education, and by extension an aviation 
education, and we not only change that student's life we change the 
whole family's trajectory. In addition, in a study by Georgetown 
University's Center on Education and the Workforce in 2020, Vaughn 
ranked in the top 4% of colleges where low-income students get the 
highest return on investment. As a result of this overwhelming 
evidence, we made a strategic decision to offer our full-time bachelor 
of science and associate in aviation maintenance students the Vaughn 
Guarantee--if they remain enrolled full-time during their studies and 
meet regularly with our career services office and are not employed 
within one year we will pay their federal loans for one year. Our 
students and families are primarily concerned with affordability and 
the assurance of a career path, and this Guarantee is a declaration 
that Vaughn considers this a true partnership for student success.
    Queens is incredibly fortunate to have an aviation ecosystem that 
could act as a model for other major metropolitan areas. That ecosystem 
includes education partners like Aviation High School who we support 
with ``Bridge to College'' programs, partnering on Women in Aviation 
Events, scholarships and more. Between these two institutions, we are 
one of the largest producers of technicians to industry. Our other 
outstanding partners include the Port Authority of New York and New 
Jersey, Delta, Endeavor, Republic, JetBlue, United and the Cradle of 
Aviation Museum, among others, to provide a clear career pathway.
    At Vaughn, we host the Scouting community with interactive 
workshops, have developed a math program with a local middle school 
that provides a pathway to high school and then Vaughn, our students 
offer demonstrations at museums like the Cradle of Aviation, and we 
host awareness events in cooperation with JetBlue and United at the New 
York Hall of Science, as well as send Vaughn students to participate in 
a variety of secondary school events. These programs create the early 
awareness needed to draw individuals traditionally not well represented 
in the industry.
    Congress could do more to support Minority-Serving Institutions 
specially with grants for simulation equipment, curriculum development 
and faculty like the options available through the Department of 
Education with Title V and Title III grants (of which Vaughn recently 
was awarded for $3 million over the next five years to invest in our 
facilities, faculty and program in aviation maintenance).
    Vaughn's 90 years of expertise in aviation education provides us 
with a unique vantage point and a legacy of students who fuel one of 
this nation's leading economic drivers, and the horizon while it looks 
incredibly bright will only become more challenging with advanced air 
mobility and uncrewed aerial vehicles. All the current workforce 
demands do not even factor in the maintenance technicians, pilots, 
airport managers and engineers needed for these burgeoning fields. To 
meet the need for a qualified and well-trained workforce we must create 
awareness in communities that can be the greatest contributors to the 
aviation industry by providing early awareness, access to a connected 
pathway, easy access to more information about the variety of pathways 
via the web, and an affordable way to achieve the dream of a fulfilling 
career that provides the American dream. Aviation and aerospace are and 
can continue to be that for more Americans if we have the willingness 
and the commitment to invest now in building a pipeline that supplies 
the workforce for the future.

    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Dr. DeVivo. Hopefully, I got it right 
that time.
    Mr. Thress, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

    TESTIMONY OF BRAD THRESS, PRESIDENT AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE 
              OFFICER, FlightSafety INTERNATIONAL

    Mr. Thress. Thank you, Vice Chairman Yakym.
    Ranking Member Cohen, Ranking Member Larsen, and members of 
the subcommittee, on behalf of FlightSafety International, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I am Brad 
Thress, president and CEO of FlightSafety.
    I would like to start by saying as a lifelong aviator and a 
former Air Force pilot, type rated in several commercial and 
business jet aircraft, I am very passionate about the safety of 
our industry, and it is the focus of our entire company.
    FlightSafety trains pilots, maintenance technicians, cabin 
personnel, dispatchers, and drone operators for business 
aviation, defense, and the commercial airlines. We also 
engineer and manufacture our own simulators at our factory in 
Broken Arrow, Oklahoma.
    Simulator flight training is an integral part of the safety 
improvements achieved by the aviation industry over the last 
several decades. It has proven to save lives. It is a 
regulatory requirement around the world, and it is also 
required by insurers of complex airplanes.
    Globally, over 1,500 civil full-flight simulators are in 
operation. Sims are certified to accurately recreate the 
experience of flight operations. They provide a fully immersive 
experience. Pilots are qualified in new types 100 percent in 
the simulator. The first time they fly the airplane is 
typically with passengers in the back.
    The full-flight sim you see pictured here on the left 
consists of three major assemblies. An exact duplicate of a 
full cockpit, which you can see in the upper right picture, a 
high-definition wraparound visual system and a motion base. The 
average cost of a full-flight sim is $12 million. And they 
simulate operations anywhere in the world in all weather 
conditions.
    Simulators also enable flightcrews to experience all 
possible aircraft malfunctions, many of which are impractical 
to train in the aircraft because it is unsafe. Between 2020 and 
2022, 488 accidents occurred during training flights. That is 
11 percent of all accidents. These accidents resulted in 70 
fatalities.
    Simulators also allow crews to experience rare events like 
rapid decompressions and emergency descents, high-speed 
rejected takeoffs, and dual engine failures.
    Full spectrum of operating environments are also available 
in the simulator. We train environmental events like wingtip 
vortices encounters, wind shear, cold-weather operations in 
snow and ice, and mountainous airport operations in poor 
weather. We also train special operating procedures like the 
approaches into Washington Reagan.
    Just as a flight-hour of combat training in an F-35 differs 
dramatically from an hour in a 172, an hour of simulator 
training is far more valuable than an hour in a single-engine 
aircraft. The two pictures on the right contrast the experience 
of the simulator on the upper right and the single-engine 
airplane on the lower right.
    Since 2013, airline copilots are required to have 1,500 
hours, just like airline captains. It is very expensive to 
build this time which drives many of these hours into single-
engine aircraft where the experience is not relevant to 
commercial operations.
    Simulator training duplicates the full commercial operating 
environment. The impact of the simulator experience could be 
expanded by increasing the credit allowed toward the 1,500 
hours. Currently, a maximum of 100 hours of sim time are 
allowed, which is just 7 percent of the requirement. Increasing 
this to a more significant portion would enhance the 
preparedness of the pilot workforce.
    I will conclude by saying flight simulators are proven 
technologies; they are here today; the industry relies on them. 
Increasing their use will give pilots a much stronger and 
relevant body of experience and enhance the safety of the 
aviation industry. I will yield back my time.
    [Mr. Thress' prepared statement follows:]

                                 
   Prepared Statement of Brad Thress, President and Chief Executive 
                  Officer, FlightSafety International
    Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Cohen, Chairman Graves, Ranking 
Member Larsen, and members of the Subcommittee, on behalf of 
FlightSafety International and our employees, I thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today. My name is Brad Thress, and I am the 
President and CEO of FlightSafety International. As a life-long aviator 
and former Air Force pilot rated on several commercial and business jet 
aircraft, I am understandably passionate about this topic.
                              Introduction
    FlightSafety International (FSI) is a U.S. company with over 4,900 
employees in 36 states. As a leading supplier of advanced, simulator-
based training for business, defense, and commercial airline pilots, 
maintenance technicians, and cabin crew, FSI has had a single focus for 
over 70 years; increase the safety of aviation through world class 
training for air crew members and maintainers.
    FSI offers initial, recurrent, advanced and special operations 
pilot training and provides access to cutting-edge simulator 
technology, specially designed training environments, and the expertise 
of professional FAA and European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA)-
qualified instructors. As a training provider, FSI trains 82,500 people 
annually, including approximately 52,000 civil pilots and 5,700 
military pilots.
    Other training provided by FSI includes initial and updated 
aviation maintenance training for professional technicians, Aircraft 
Dispatcher, Corporate Scheduler/Dispatcher, and Operations Control 
Specialist for Helicopter Air Ambulance training. FSI also offers 
professional drone training with a program built upon experience with 
UAS training for the military and decades of experience in 
international corporate aviation.
                Modernizing Aviation Workforce Training
    The current multifaceted challenges facing the aviation industry 
and their impacts to air service have highlighted the need to modernize 
workforce training programs. FSI designs, manufactures, and installs 
new simulators, advanced training devices, classrooms, aircraft 
systems, and crew emergency trainers. FSI is an expert in the design, 
manufacture, and support of Level D-qualified full flight simulators, 
advanced flight training devices, visual systems and displays. FSI also 
develops comprehensive, state of the art interactive courseware, using 
traditional and virtual technologies, and FSI simulators faithfully 
replicate the look, feel, and performance of customers' aircraft.
    In the last decade, flight training device and simulation 
technology have made enormous advancements. Training provided in these 
devices allows greater exposure to the multi-engine, multi-crew airline 
environment pilots must be able to master. In addition, student pilots 
can experience emergency situations, weather, and other events in a 
realistic, but virtual setting. These are experiences they cannot gain 
flying solo in a small, single-engine aircraft.
    The following are some of the advancements in-flight training 
device and simulation technology that FSI has achieved:
    +  Image generation products that bring training to life with 
seamless, powerful, and realistic training scenarios.
    +  Advanced simulations, including sensor simulation and a wide 
variety of high-fidelity weather systems and effects, with up to 64,000 
atmospheric layers.
    +  Physics-based weather models, including:
        Atmospheric scattering;
        3D clouds, including storm clouds with volumetric and 
in-cloud effects, rain shafts and correlated radar profiles;
        2D and 3D oceans, including two swell states, ocean 
wave and spray effects, and geo-specific littoral ocean water coloring;
        Runway, taxiway, and area geo-specific contaminants; 
and
        Dynamic precipitation, such as physics-based rain, snow 
with accurate density and motion, and bouncing hail.
    +  A wide variety of animation types and controls featuring 
outstanding visibility attenuation, weather, physics-based lighting, 
and special effects.
    +  A variety of animation controls that can be combined and chained 
together to create numerous complex effects, including:
        Particle-based simulations such as dust clouds, brown 
outs, whiteout, obscuration effects, smoke, downwash, and more; and
        A variety of sensor trigger-based animations.
    +  An extensive library of airports, photorealistic moving models, 
and high-detail areas with urban culture and vegetative density.
    +  Glass mirror displays with superior optical performance, sharper 
image clarity, and significant advances in fidelity and field of view. 
Displays fill the entire aircraft window, with the largest field-of-
view on motion of up to 300 degrees horizontal and 60 degrees vertical.
                         Full flight simulators
    Full flight simulators are certified to accurately recreate the 
experience of actual flight operations. They consist of an exact 
duplicate of a full cockpit, high-definition visual system, and motion 
base. The average commercial simulator costs approximately $12 million. 
They produce exact simulations of operations anywhere in the world and 
in all weather conditions. They also enable flight crews to experience 
all possible aircraft malfunctions and operational scenarios safely and 
realistically. FlightSafety engineers and manufactures our own 
simulators in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. We operate 386 simulators in 16 
states and 6 countries.
                       Enhancing Aviation Safety
    Simulator based flight training is an integral part of the safety 
improvements achieved by the aviation industry over the last several 
decades. Experience gained in flight simulators empowers aviators to 
safely handle situations from routine to the most critical emergencies. 
This training is proven to lower risk and save lives. Because of its 
powerful impact on safety, simulator-based flight training has become a 
regulatory requirement around the world. It is also required by 
aviation insurers for complex aircraft. Globally there are over 1,500 
civil simulators in operation
    Most critical training elements are impractical to reproduce in the 
aircraft because it is unsafe and can damage expensive system 
components. During the last three years eleven percent of accidents 
occurred during training flights. To mitigate these risks, in-aircraft 
training is limited to partially accurate scenarios practiced in 
unrealistic environments.
    Simulator training allows crews to fully experience all possible 
events even rare ones. Simulators also allow crews to experience a full 
spectrum of operating environments such as snow, icing, wind shear, and 
high-altitude airport takeoff and landings. They are used to expose 
pilots to special operating procedures at specific airports around the 
world like the special approaches into Washington Reagan. At 
FlightSafety we construct precise scenarios using actual operating data 
recorded aboard the aircraft. We create scenarios tailored to improving 
a specific pilot's performance in areas shown by his or her aircraft 
data to need improvement. We also aggregate this aircraft data and 
build training profiles based on current airports and approaches that 
have higher accident risks.
                   Value of simulator training hours
    Industry and airworthiness authorities around the world recognize 
the increased safety achieved by training in full flight simulators and 
flight training devices. For the last ten years U.S. airline first 
officers have been required to have 1,500 hours of flight time just 
like airline captains. Because flight time is very expensive, aspiring 
aviators accomplish most of their hours in more affordable, simple, 
single-engine aircraft. Training hours performed in certified full 
flight simulators as well as other flight training devices build much 
more experience, and are therefore much more valuable, than flying 
light, single engine piston aircraft in visual conditions.
    In addition, the flight experience obtained in light aircraft is 
not relevant to the type of operation professional pilots experience. 
It primarily takes place outside of the airspace above 18,000 feet and 
around busy airports, where the vast majority of commercial operations 
take place. It is primarily accomplished in the daytime, in clear 
weather rather than at night or in inclement weather, and it purposely 
avoids the types of operational complexity that are encountered daily 
by professional aviators.
                 Increasing flight simulator experience
    Encouraging the richer experience provided by simulators can be 
accomplished in several ways. Ideally it would be used all along a 
pilot's journey to become a professional aviator. Allowing credit for 
simulator training for each rating on the ladder to becoming a 
professional pilot would make high-quality simulator experience an 
implicit part of the development of commercial pilots. Another approach 
would be to allow credit for simulator hours in a larger aggregated 
amount at the last rung in the ladder, the 1,500 hours required to 
qualify as an airline first officer. Currently the FAA allows credit 
for a maximum of 100 hours, seven percent, of simulator training toward 
the requirement. Increasing the maximum amount of credit for simulator 
training to a larger portion of a pilot's flight experience would have 
a significant positive impact on the safety of our industry.
 Solving the Airline Pilot Shortage by Fully Utilizing Advancements in 
                             Pilot Training
    FSI believes a key long-term solution to the pilot shortage is 
better use of and greater credit for quality training provided by 
advanced training device and simulation technologies. To this end, the 
FAA must fully utilize the authority granted it in the Airline Safety 
Act of 2010 and provide credit towards the 1,500-flight hours required 
for an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certificate for time spent 
instructing or training in high-quality flight training and simulation 
devices. Congress and the FAA already recognize that not all hours in 
an aircraft have the same value or benefit. This recognition is 
manifest in the flight hour requirements for the three existing levels 
of a restricted Air Transport Pilot (R-ATP) rating: 750 hours 
(Military), 1,000 hours (4-year accredited aviation college program), 
1,250 (2-year accredited program).
    Expanded use of advanced training devices and simulation technology 
will significantly improve pilot training, reduce the cost and time 
required, and allow greater access to airline careers for a more 
diverse population of aspiring pilots. Most importantly, it will 
enhance the safety of the National Airspace System (NAS). Pilots will 
be better trained as the result of greater exposure to challenging 
conditions, multi-crew environments, and busy airline and airspace 
scenarios. These are all situations they do not face while accruing 
hours towards the 1,500-flight hours flying solo in a small aircraft. 
But pilots will be able to experience these situations virtually in 
advanced flight training devices and simulators if the limit on 
allowable flight training simulator hours was increased. In addition, 
training performed in advanced flight training devices allows both 
students and instructors to review their performance and repeat it as 
needed. Students can learn from their mistakes in a safe, but realistic 
and challenging environment.
                               Conclusion
    The commercial aviation industry would be measurably strengthened 
by the increased use of flight training devices and full flight 
simulators, particularly those certified to the highest fidelity levels 
(see pictures on the next page; including pictures showing a cockpit in 
a simulator versus a cockpit in a small aircraft typically used for 
accruing the flight training hours.) Training in these devices is much 
richer and more valuable than training in an aircraft. This is because 
it gives pilots the ability to experience malfunctions and flight 
situations, such as icing and cross winds, that are simply impossible 
to experience safely in an aircraft. Increasing the amount of flight 
hour credit given to pilots for time spent instructing or training in 
flight training devices and full flight simulators would be very 
powerful both in improving aviation safety and in encouraging this 
method of high quality, broad-based, and effective virtual learning.
    As a U.S. company with over seven decades of experience training 
pilots and expertise in simulation technology, the Subcommittee should 
consider FSI a resource as it develops solutions to the pilot and 
aviation workforce shortages for inclusion in the 2023 Federal Aviation 
Administration (FAA) Reauthorization.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
  [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    

    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Mr. Thress. Ms. Krause, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes.

TESTIMONY OF HEATHER KRAUSE, DIRECTOR, PHYSICAL INFRASTRUCTURE, 
             U.S. GOVERNMENT ACCOUNTABILITY OFFICE

    Ms. Krause. Vice Chair Yakym, Ranking Member Cohen, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
discuss GAO's work on the aviation workforce. Like many other 
critical sectors of the Nation's economy, the aviation industry 
has been adversely affected by the COVID pandemic.
    However, demand has steadily rebounded since spring of 2021 
with ICAO predicting global traffic levels to exceed pre-
pandemic levels this year. We have previously reported on 
industry concerns that new workers, particularly commercial 
airline pilots and aircraft mechanics, were not entering the 
industry at a pace sufficient to replace attrition and support 
the industry's projected growth. With the recent rebound in 
traffic, these concerns have reemerged.
    My statement today is based on our past work and 
forthcoming report on the aviation workforce and will focus on: 
One, what Federal and industry data reveal about the supply and 
demand of airline pilots and aircraft mechanics; two, 
challenges to maintaining or growing workforce supply; and, 
three, actions the aviation industry and FAA are taking to 
address those challenges.
    First, Federal and industry data on the supply of U.S. 
pilots reveal a growing but also aging workforce. From 2017 
through 2022, the total number of individuals qualified to be 
airplane pilots, that is, those holding airline transport pilot 
or ATP and active medical certificates increased by 3,000 or by 
2 percent. The number of students enrolled in 4-year pilot 
training schools also doubled from around 15,000 in 2017 to 
around 30,000 in 2021. However, as of 2022, over half of active 
ATP certificate holders were over the age of 50.
    While the supply has increased, the combination of 
increases in pilot hiring, wages, and employment in recent 
years also show strong demand and can serve as indicators of a 
tight labor market. Demand for pilots is especially acute among 
regional airlines reporting that their operations have been 
affected by difficulties in hiring and retaining pilots, 
particularly captains, who have moved to larger airlines.
    As for aircraft mechanics, mechanic certificates grew by 11 
percent, and student enrollment grew by 18 percent from 2017 
through 2022. However, there was a decline in employment levels 
and an increase in wages, which may suggest that the number of 
mechanics willing or able to work in aviation has decreased.
    There are some limitations to what data can tell us about 
this workforce. For example, because some certificated pilots 
and mechanics may be working for other industries or aerospace 
companies, the ATP and mechanic certificate data overestimate 
the number currently employed by airlines or repair stations. 
In addition, future supply and demand protections are 
inherently uncertain.
    For example, the projected growth assumes continued 
economic growth. If a recession or another unexpected event 
affecting demand were to occur, the projections may be higher 
than actual demand.
    A number of challenges continue to constrain the supply of 
pilots and mechanics according to aviation stakeholders we 
interviewed for our forthcoming report. Several of these 
challenges we have reported on before and include: One, the 
high cost of pilot education; two, pay and working conditions 
faced by mechanics whose skills are highly valued by other 
industries; and three, limited workforce diversity, which 
shrinks the pool of potential future applicants.
    Airlines, repair stations, and FAA are taking steps to 
address these challenges. For example, several regional 
airlines recently increased pilot pay; in one case, boosting 
starting wages for first-year, first-class officers and 
captains by around 120 percent and 175 percent, respectively. 
In addition, some airlines and repair stations have established 
their own training schools and programs to help train pilots 
and mechanics.
    FAA also has several efforts to enhance outreach and 
attract more youth and diversity to aviation careers. For 
example, under the Aviation Workforce Development Grant program 
established by Congress in FAA's last reauthorization, FAA 
awarded $5 million to 16 schools for pilots, and another $5 
million to 15 schools for maintenance workers in 2022. However, 
FAA received more than 300 applications for these grants. And 
several stakeholders we interviewed said the funding provided 
is likely not enough to make a substantial impact on supply 
challenges.
    In closing, a sufficient supply of skilled aviation workers 
is critical to ensuring a safe and robust aviation system. The 
recent strong recovery of aviation demand has been good for the 
industry. It has also exacerbated longstanding workforce 
challenges. Meeting aviation workforce needs is a shared 
responsibility among the aviation industry, schools, and 
Government. This concludes my statement. I look forward to 
answering your questions.
    [Ms. Krause's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
       Prepared Statement of Heather Krause, Director, Physical 
         Infrastructure, U.S. Government Accountability Office
  Aviation Workforce: Supply of Airline Pilots and Aircraft Mechanics
    Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Cohen and Members of the 
Subcommittee:
    I am pleased to be here today to discuss the supply of and demand 
for commercial airline pilots and aircraft mechanics and industry and 
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) responses to workforce supply 
challenges. The U.S. civil aviation workforce is responsible for 
helping move over half a billion people and millions of tons of goods 
each year. Like many other critical sectors of the nation's economy, 
the aviation industry has been adversely affected by the COVID-19 
pandemic. Passenger demand for air travel plummeted in 2020, creating 
cascading effects across sectors including airlines, airports, and 
repair stations. However, passenger demand has steadily rebounded since 
spring 2021. In 2023, traffic levels in North America are expected to 
exceed pre-pandemic traffic levels, according to a March 2022 forecast 
from the International Air Transport Association.
    As a result, industry questions about whether it has a sufficient 
number of workers to meet demand have reemerged. Industry's demand for 
pilots and mechanics is driven by several factors, including projected 
demand for air travel, the number of aircraft that airlines expect to 
use to fulfill that demand, as well as anticipated workforce attrition 
and retirements. We have previously reported on airlines' concerns that 
new workers--particularly commercial airline pilots and aircraft 
mechanics--are not entering the industry at a pace sufficient to 
replace attrition and retirements and support both the industry's 
projected growth and expansion into electrified aviation operations 
that may enter service in the next 5 years.\1\ The aviation industry's 
response to the COVID-19 pandemic may have exacerbated these concerns, 
as airlines and other businesses encouraged workers to retire or 
voluntarily separate to reduce costs during the industry downturn.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ GAO, Aviation Workforce: Current and Future Availability of 
Airline Pilots, GAO-14-232 (Washington, D.C.: Feb. 28, 2014); Current 
and Future Availability of Aviation Engineering and Maintenance 
Professionals, GAO-14-237 (Washington D.C.: Feb. 28, 2014); and 
Transforming Aviation: Stakeholders Identified Issues to Address for 
`Advanced Air Mobility', GAO-22-105020 (Washington, D.C.: May 9, 2022).
    \2\ Among other assistance, federal COVID-19 relief laws provided 
up to $63 billion in financial assistance for passenger airlines and 
other eligible applicants to pay employee wages, salaries, and 
benefits. The financial assistance, depending on the program, required 
recipients to refrain from conducting involuntary furloughs, among 
other requirements. For example, recipients were to use financial 
assistance from the three rounds of the Payroll Support Program (PSP) 
exclusively for the continuation of wages, salaries, and benefits. 
Recipients were required to refrain from conducting involuntary 
furloughs or terminations and reducing pay rates and benefits for 
prescribed periods of time.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My statement today will highlight (1) what is known about the 
supply of and demand for commercial airline pilots and aircraft 
mechanics, and what is projected for the future; (2) challenges related 
to increasing the supply of pilots and mechanics, according to industry 
stakeholders; and (3) actions the aviation industry and FAA have taken 
to address workforce supply concerns.
    This testimony is based on our body of work on aviation workforce 
issues.\3\ In particular, we are drawing from a draft report being 
developed in response to a provision in the FAA Reauthorization Act of 
2018 that GAO study the aviation and aerospace workforce of the future. 
The draft report is currently out for comment with the Department of 
Transportation (DOT) and FAA. We expect to issue the report next month. 
In addition, in May 2022, we reported on issues that industry and the 
federal government will need to address before an emerging form of air 
transportation--Advanced Air Mobility (AAM)--can be widely implemented, 
including challenges to developing a skilled AAM industry workforce.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ See GAO, Aviation Workforce: Current and Future Availability of 
Airline Pilots, GAO-14-232 (Washington, D.C.: Feb. 28, 2014); Current 
and Future Availability of Aviation Engineering and Maintenance 
Professionals, GAO-14-237 (Washington D.C.: Feb. 28, 2014); Collegiate 
Aviation Schools: Stakeholders' Views on Challenges for Initial Pilot 
Training, GAO-18-403 (Washington, D.C.: May 15, 2018); Aviation 
Maintenance: Additional Coordination and Data Could Advance FAA Efforts 
to Promote a Robust, Diverse Workforce, GAO-20-206 (Washington, D.C.: 
Feb. 6, 2020); and Transforming Aviation: Stakeholders Identified 
Issues to Address for `Advanced Air Mobility', GAO-22-105020 
(Washington, D.C.: May 9, 2022).
    \4\ Advanced Air Mobility is expected to use revolutionary 
aircraft--which may feature electrified propulsion systems, increased 
levels of automation, and vertical take-off and landing capabilities--
to transport people and cargo.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    For the draft report, we examined industry and government data on 
airline pilots and aircraft mechanics. These data included the number 
of airline transport pilot and mechanic certificates FAA estimated to 
be active from 2017 through 2022, students enrolled in training 
programs, and hiring, wage, and employment data for these occupations. 
We determined the data were sufficiently reliable by conducting 
selected manual and electronic tests of the data. We also interviewed a 
range of aviation stakeholders, including representatives from domestic 
passenger and regional airlines; repair station operators that perform 
inspections and maintenance on aircraft; faculty from collegiate 
aviation schools and aviation maintenance schools; and multiple 
industry associations and labor groups representing a cross-section of 
aviation interests. The results of these interviews are not 
generalizable to the entire commercial aviation industry.
    We also held two discussion groups with a non-generalizable 
selection of currently-employed aircraft mechanics, identified with 
labor union assistance, in which we discussed their perspectives on 
their careers to that point, including what factors attracted them to 
aviation careers and what obstacles they have faced. We also 
interviewed FAA program officials with subject matter expertise in 
areas such as pilot and mechanic certification and education and 
outreach programs, and reviewed relevant FAA documentation including 
grant project applications and rulemaking documents. More detailed 
information on our scope and methodology for this work can be found in 
the report we are issuing next month.
    Similarly, our work on AAM workforce issues included interviews 
with a non-generalizable sample of 36 stakeholders including AAM 
companies, trade organizations, standards bodies, colleges and 
universities, state and local governments, and organizations that 
represent aerospace workers on these issues, among other methods.
    More detailed information on our objectives, scope, and methodology 
for that work can be found in the issued report. The work on which this 
testimony is based is being conducted in accordance with generally 
accepted government auditing standards.
   Available Data on the Supply of and Demand for Airline Pilots and 
                           Aircraft Mechanics
Pilot Supply Has Grown Since 2017 and Is Projected to Increase over the 
        Next Two Decades
    In our draft report, we determined that pilot supply grew from 2017 
through 2022 based on FAA's Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) certification 
data and collegiate aviation student enrollment data.\5\ Pilot supply 
may further increase over the next two decades based on projected 
growth in ATP certifications. However, the extent to which this 
projected supply would exceed or fall short of industry's demand for 
pilots is unknown given the uncertainties surrounding future demand, 
among other things.\6\
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    \5\ Other sources of airline pilot supply include non-collegiate 
vocational pilot schools, non-collegiate, instructor-based pilot 
schools, and the military; however, these sources were outside the 
scope of our audit work.
    \6\ We have long reported that the demand for air travel is highly 
cyclical in relation to the state of the economy, as well as to 
political, international, and health-related events. See GAO, 
Commercial Aviation: Airline Industry Contraction Due to Volatile Fuel 
Prices and Falling Demand Affects Airports, Passengers, and Federal 
Government Revenues, GAO-09-393 (Washington, D.C.: Apr. 21, 2009).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      ATP certifications: From 2017-2022, the supply of 
individuals qualified to be airline pilots--those under 65 years old 
and holding both an ATP certificate and an active medical certificate--
increased by about 3,000 (or 2 percent, from 144,557 to 147,934 
certificates), according to FAA data. The number of new ATP 
certifications issued each year by FAA grew more than 100 percent 
during this time period (from 4,449 to 9,588 certificates).\7\
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    \7\ The pool of ATP certificate holders may include pilots who are 
unavailable for work, not suitable or competent to act as pilots in 
airline operations, or unwilling to work at wages being offered.

      Student enrollments: The number of individuals enrolled 
in 4-year pilot training schools almost doubled from 2017 through 2021, 
from 15,329 to 30,088 students, according to data obtained from the 
University Aviation Association.\8\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ At the time of our analysis, 2022 enrollment data were not yet 
available.

      Upcoming retirements: According to FAA data, the average 
pilot age has remained at roughly 51 years old from 2017 through 2022. 
About 15 percent of all ATP certificate holders (25,214 of about 
173,000) were 65--the mandatory retirement age for U.S. passenger 
airlines--or older in 2022 (see fig. 1).\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ While pilots age 65 and over are no longer eligible to fly for 
scheduled U.S. passenger airlines, they may be eligible to work as 
pilots or instructors elsewhere.

    According to FAA data, an average of about 4,300 ATP holders under 
65 will reach mandatory retirement age each year from 2022 through 
2042. Approximately 15 percent of current ATP certificate holders will 
turn 65 by 2027, 32 percent by 2032, 47 percent by 2037, and 61 percent 
by 2042. Other factors, such as early retirements or pilots leaving the 
aviation industry could further reduce pilot supply; however, these 
data are not publicly available.

 Figure 1: Distribution of Active Airline Transport Pilot Certificates 
                          in 2022 by Age Group


         Source: GAO analysis of FAA information. GAO-23-106769

Note: Pilots age 65 and over are no longer eligible for employment with 
scheduled U.S. passenger airlines, but could work as pilots or 
instructors elsewhere.

      Forecasted increase in pilot supply: Based on FAA's 
forecast of ATP certificate growth, which, according to FAA officials, 
factors in mandatory retirements, the number of ATP certificate holders 
under 65 may increase 10-17 percent from 2022 through 2042. To project 
the growth of ATP certificate holders who are under 65, according to 
FAA officials, an annual growth rate between 0.5 and 0.8 percent could 
be applied to the pool of certificate holders. Using those lower and 
upper bounds, the pool of certificate holders could grow from 147,934 
in 2022 to either 163,452 (10 percent growth) or as many as 173,492 (17 
percent growth) ATP certificate holders in 2042. However, the extent to 
which the projected supply would exceed or fall short of industry's 
demand for pilots is unknown given the uncertainties surrounding future 
demand.\10\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \10\ We have long reported that the demand for air travel is highly 
cyclical in relation to the state of the economy, as well as to 
political, international, and health-related events. See GAO, 
Commercial Aviation: Airline Industry Contraction Due to Volatile Fuel 
Prices and Falling Demand Affects Airports, Passengers, and Federal 
Government Revenues, GAO-09-393 (Washington, D.C.: Apr. 21, 2009).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Current Demand for Pilots is Strong
    Publicly available data on hiring and employment by U.S. passenger 
airlines--and the interaction of hiring and employment with wages--
indicate there is strong demand for pilots, as noted in our draft 
report.
      Hiring: Pilot hiring, one of the key measures of demand 
for airline pilots, recovered strongly in 2021 following a steep drop 
after the onset of the pandemic. According to data from Future and 
Active Pilot Advisors (FAPA), nine mainline U.S. airlines hired 28,418 
pilots from 2017 through 2022--an average of almost 4,700 pilots per 
year.\11\ However, that growth was not evenly distributed across that 
time period. For example, in 2020 those nine airlines collectively 
hired about 1,500 pilots, coinciding with the steep drop in demand for 
air travel early in the pandemic. In 2021, the nine airlines hired 
4,067 pilots, and in 2022 hired 11,194 pilots, according to FAPA data.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \11\ FAA defines mainline airlines as those providing service 
primarily via aircraft with 90 or more seats. See FAA, FAA Aerospace 
Forecast Fiscal Years 2022-2042. The nine mainline U.S. passenger 
airlines for which FAPA makes pilot hiring data publicly available are 
Alaska Airlines, Allegiant Air, American Airlines, Delta Air Lines, 
Frontier Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Spirit 
Airlines, and United Airlines.

    It is not possible to determine from the FAPA data to what extent 
those nine airlines hired pilots who were new or returning to the labor 
force, as opposed to pilots who were employed by other airlines. 
However, representatives from two regional airlines told us as part of 
our ongoing work that they have lost pilots to hiring by larger 
airlines in recent years.
      Employment: According to the latest available full-year 
data reported by airlines to DOT, the number of pilots employed by 22 
mainline and regional airlines increased from 70,747 in 2017 to more 
than 73,000 in 2021. The 2021 employment numbers mark a turnaround from 
2020, when pilot employment at those airlines dropped by almost 9 
percent compared to 2019, as many pilots retired, were furloughed, or 
left the profession, at least temporarily. However, the 2021 employment 
numbers remain below 2018 levels.\12\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ According to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) data, 
employment of the aircraft pilots and flight engineers occupational 
group increased by about 0.7 percent per year from 2017-2021. In 
comparison, employment across all occupations increased by about 0.2 
percent each year according to BLS.

      Pay: Mainline and regional airline first officer pay rose 
from 2017 through 2021, according to our analysis of data from the Air 
Line Pilots Association. At 10 mainline airlines, starting pay for a 
first officer in their first year rose from an average of about $62 per 
hour in 2017 to almost $76 per hour in 2021, an annualized rate of 5.3 
percent.\13\ At 12 regional airlines, first-year, hourly pay for a 
first officer rose from an average of $35 an hour in 2017 to almost$45 
an hour in 2021, an annualized rate of about 6 percent.\14\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \13\ In real 2021 dollars, pay rose from about $68 per hour in 2017 
to $76 per hour in 2021, an annualized rate of 2.7 percent per year. We 
adjusted pay for inflation in real 2021 dollars using the Consumer 
Price Index from the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor 
Statistics.
    \14\ In real 2021 dollars, pay rose from about $39 an hour in 2017 
to about $44 an hour in 2021, an annualized rate of 3 percent per year. 
We adjusted pay for inflation in real 2021 dollars using the Consumer 
Price Index for the U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor 
Statistics.

    In addition, demand for pilots is especially acute among regional 
airlines, which have lost pilots to other employers, according to 
representatives from regional airlines. For example, in July 2022, 
representatives from a regional airline told us they have lost about 
100 pilots a month to larger airlines. One regional airline estimated 
that U.S. regional airlines would collectively lose about 11,000 
pilots--or 65 percent of their workforce--to larger airlines in 2022. 
Representatives from three regional airlines told us they typically 
lose more experienced captains to mainline airlines, which makes it 
challenging for regional airlines to have enough captains to develop 
their less experienced first officers. In 2018, we also reported that 
regional airlines indicated difficulties finding sufficient numbers of 
qualified pilots to meet demand.\15\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \15\ GAO-18-403.
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    The federal government and the aviation industry forecast that 
demand for pilots will continue to be strong in the future. For 
example, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) projects an average of 
about 18,000 job openings annually for the aircraft pilots and flight 
engineers occupational group until 2031.\16\ While these forecasts are 
helpful in gaining a sense of aviation workforce demand in the years to 
come, developing forecasts is inherently difficult, as they are based 
on numerous assumptions and actual demand might differ from projected 
demand due to a variety of factors. For example, the projections assume 
continued economic growth, but if a recession or another unexpected 
event like the COVID-19 pandemic were to occur, the projections of 
workforce demand are likely to be higher than actual demand.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \16\ The aircraft pilots and flight engineers occupational group 
includes commercial passenger and cargo airline pilots, charter pilots, 
flight instructors, and helicopter pilots, among other occupations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Number of Individuals with Aircraft Mechanic Certificates 
        Increased, but Stakeholders Noted Challenges to Hiring
    In our draft report, we determined that aircraft mechanic supply 
grew from 2017 through 2022 based on mechanic certification and 
aviation maintenance student enrollment data.
      New mechanic certificates: The number of newly issued 
mechanic certificates increased 11 percent from 2017 through 2022 
(6,398 to 7,119 certificates), an annualized growth rate of about 2 
percent.

      All mechanic certificates: The total pool of mechanic 
certificates also increased 12 percent from 2017 through 2022, from 
286,268 to 320,042, an annualized growth rate of about 2 percent per 
year. However, these data provide limited information on the current 
mechanic workforce, as the number of mechanics who have retired from, 
or otherwise left, the aviation industry since 2017 is unknown. 
Additionally, as we reported in 2020, individuals holding mechanic 
certificates might never work in the aviation industry, or might begin 
their career in the aviation industry and leave for a job in another 
industry.\17\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \17\ GAO-20-206.

      Student enrollments: According to survey data compiled by 
the Aviation Technician Education Council, estimated enrollment at 
aviation maintenance technician schools rose from 17,791 students in 
2017 to roughly 21,000 students in 2021. However, representatives we 
spoke with from two maintenance schools indicated that their 
enrollments have either remained fairly steady or decreased in recent 
years. For example, representatives from one school told us they had a 
waiting list for enrollment before the pandemic, but now are unable to 
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fill all of their available seats.

    Available data provide a limited picture of the current demand for 
aircraft mechanics, as noted in our draft report. Hiring data from 
repair stations and other aviation industry employers are not publicly 
available, which limits visibility into the extent to which employers 
are trying and able to fill vacancies. Data reported to DOT by airlines 
indicate that employment of maintenance labor (a category which 
includes more than aircraft mechanics) at 22 mainline and regional 
airlines decreased by about 13 percent from 2017 through 2021; however, 
average annual pay increased by about 12 percent over this period.\18\ 
Although other factors may be involved, the decline in airline 
employment coupled with an increase in wages suggest that there could 
be a decrease in the number of mechanics willing and able to work for 
airlines, due to retirements or to individuals finding employment 
elsewhere.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \18\ DOT's ``Maintenance Labor'' category includes apprentice 
mechanics, carpenters, chief mechanics, cleaners, crew chiefs, 
electricians, engineers, foremen, inspectors, lead mechanics, 
mechanics, mechanic helpers, non-productive shop labor, and shop labor 
not identified with specific maintenance projects.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Interviews we conducted for our draft report also identified recent 
challenges in meeting current aircraft mechanic workforce needs. 
Specifically, representatives from four airlines, three repair 
stations, and a labor union told us that aviation businesses have 
experienced challenges maintaining a sufficient number of mechanics. 
Representatives from two of the repair stations told us that inadequate 
staffing levels have contributed to backlogs in work and delays in 
maintenance activities. Representatives from one regional airline 
reported that it was 5 to 7 percent below its desired staffing level in 
April 2022, while representatives from another regional airline 
reported that their attrition has outpaced new hires over the prior 12 
months.
    Similar to the pilot demand forecasts, the federal government and 
the aviation industry forecast that demand for aviation maintenance 
workers--including aircraft mechanics--may be strong in the future. For 
example, BLS projects an average of about 11,500 job openings annually 
for the aircraft mechanics and service technicians occupational group 
from 2021 until 2031.\19\ However, according to one consulting firm's 
forecast for 2022 through 2032, aviation maintenance supply challenges 
in North America could limit the number of aircraft in service to meet 
passenger demand.\20\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \19\ The aircraft mechanics and service technicians occupational 
group includes occupations such as aircraft engine specialists, 
airframe mechanics, flight test mechanics, and helicopter engine 
mechanics.
    \20\ Oliver Wyman, Global Fleet and MRO Market Forecast 2022-2032. 
MRO is an acronym that stands for maintenance, repair, and overhaul 
organizations.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ongoing Challenges to Increasing the Supply of Pilots and Aircraft 
                               Mechanics
    Aviation industry stakeholders we interviewed as part of our draft 
report identified a number of challenges to increasing pilot and 
mechanic supply, several of which we have previously reported. Our 
forthcoming report will provide more details on the challenges noted 
here as well as others affecting the available supply of pilots and 
mechanics. In addition, these challenges may be exacerbated by the 
additional demand for workers to support new types of aviation 
operations--such as AAM.
      Pilot education costs: Affordability is an important 
factor affecting the potential pool of applicants for pilots and other 
aerospace professions. For example, according to data from the 
University Aviation Association, the average cost of a 4-year degree 
plus flight training ``lab fees'' in 2021 was $85,745 for in-state 
students and $138,511 for out-of-state students. The full cost of a 
collegiate flight education exceeds the maximum amount of certain types 
of federal financial aid available to eligible students. Some aviation 
industry stakeholders we interviewed for our May 2022 report 
characterized the high costs of training as a barrier to entry for 
students who are not from affluent backgrounds, and stated that some 
potential students choose not to pursue aerospace education because of 
these high costs.\21\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \21\ GAO-22-105020.

      ATP certification requirements: Stakeholders hold 
differing views on FAA's 1,500-flight-hour requirement to be hired as a 
first officer and its effect on pilot supply.\22\ Representatives from 
regional airlines we spoke with characterized the requirement as a 
barrier to entry that has played a part in constraining the pilot labor 
pool and contributed to current pilot supply challenges. However, the 
Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA) stated that the 1,500-flight-hour 
requirement has contributed to enhanced aviation safety and attributes 
the pilot supply challenges that airlines have recently experienced to 
their decisions to implement workforce reductions during the COVID-19 
pandemic. ALPA has also stated that, based on the pool of ATP 
certificate holders, there is more than sufficient availability of 
qualified pilots to fly for airlines given the right opportunity. 
Additionally, faculty from three collegiate aviation programs told us 
that the 1,500-hour requirement has helped schools retain flight 
instructors longer because their time instructing students counts 
toward the 1,500 hours. However, many pilot training facilities 
included in our May 2022 report reported being overstretched due to a 
lack of flight instructors, among other challenges.\23\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \22\ Pursuant to a statutory requirement, in July 2013, FAA began 
requiring all first officers to have an ATP certificate, which requires 
1,500 hours of flight experience. Pub. L. No. 111-216, Sec.  217(c)(1) 
124 Stat. 2348, 2367. Pilots with fewer than 1,500 hours can obtain a 
``restricted-privileges'' ATP certificate (R-ATP), under which specific 
academic training courses or military experience can reduce the 
required hours of total flight time to fly certain operations. FAA made 
this change for airline first officers following the 2009 Colgan Air 
Inc. crash in New York, and subsequent legislation that required FAA to 
modify, among other things, first officer qualifications.
    \23\ GAO-22-105020.

      Infrastructure constraints: Faculty we interviewed from 
two collegiate aviation programs indicated that their ability to 
produce more pilots is constrained by existing school infrastructure, 
including facilities and aircraft to train students. For example, 
faculty from one school told us that limited classroom space, among 
other infrastructure constraints, has hampered its ability to take on 
additional enrollments. The school is planning a new building to house 
the aviation program's administration as well as provide additional 
classrooms. Additionally, some stakeholders said current aerospace 
training facilities may not be able to produce sufficient numbers of 
workers to handle demand from both the traditional aerospace sector and 
the emerging AAM industry.\24\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \24\ GAO-22-105020.

      Pay and working conditions: According to FAA officials we 
interviewed for our draft report, mechanics are often underpaid, given 
the responsibilities they have for ensuring the safety and 
airworthiness of an aircraft. Additionally, several participants in our 
mechanic discussion groups described challenging working conditions, 
including the likelihood of working the overnight graveyard shift early 
in one's career, working outside in inclement weather, and regular 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
exposure to noise and chemicals.

      Competition for talent from other industries: According 
to several aviation stakeholders, the set of skills mechanics acquire 
from maintenance schools is valued by other industries, which may offer 
more attractive compensation or work environments than the aviation 
industry.

      Limited awareness and stigma of aviation maintenance 
careers: Several aviation industry stakeholders told us that interest 
in aircraft mechanic and other aviation maintenance careers suffers 
from a lack of public awareness of the career opportunities. According 
to FAA officials, mechanics are not as visible to the public as other 
careers in the aviation industry. According to representatives from one 
regional airline, support mechanisms for promoting aviation maintenance 
professions--such as engagement with high schools and maintenance 
schools, promotional marketing, and recruitment--are not as well 
developed as those supporting and promoting the airline pilot 
profession.

    In addition, stakeholders we interviewed for our draft report, 
along with an aviation industry workforce study, cited limited 
workforce diversity as a challenge to increasing both pilot and 
mechanic supply. For example, in May 2022 we reported that some 
stakeholders viewed the industry as failing to cultivate a more diverse 
workforce, which in turn has factored into hiring shortfalls across the 
aerospace industry. These stakeholders said the aerospace industry has 
not traditionally done a good job of engaging students from diverse 
backgrounds and has also struggled retaining them once hired. These 
stakeholders cited a variety of reasons, including a lack of attention 
to the issue.\25\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \25\ GAO-22-105020.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Data and studies also show limited diversity among pilots and 
mechanics. Although women represented 47 percent of the total U.S. 
workforce in 2021, an aviation industry workforce study showed that 
women comprised 5 percent of Air Line Pilots Association member pilots 
and 3.6 percent of association member captains in 2021.\26\ The study 
also noted that racial and ethnic groups including Black or African 
American, Asian, and Hispanic or Latino persons are underrepresented in 
these careers. For example, representatives from a non-profit pilot 
association told us that 3 to 5 percent of the pilot workforce are 
Latino. Additionally, University Aviation Association data on pilot 
students in 4-year schools indicate that 17 and 29 percent of the 
30,088 enrolled students in 2021 identify as female or minority, 
respectively. Women make up 2.6 percent of the aviation maintenance 
workforce, according to the aviation industry workforce study.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \26\ Rebecca Lutte, Women in Aviation: A Workforce Report, 2021 
Edition (Omaha, Nebraska: The University of Nebraska at Omaha Aviation 
Institute, December 2021).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While these non-governmental data offer some insight into the 
diversity of the workforce, we and others have identified opportunities 
for FAA to address aviation maintenance workforce challenges through 
its use of relevant data. In February 2020, we recommended that FAA use 
its existing data--which includes demographic information for mechanic 
certificate holders, such as gender--and coordinate with other federal 
agencies to identify and gather information needed to measure progress 
and target resources toward diversifying the talent pool for aviation 
maintenance careers.\27\ As of April 2023, this recommendation remains 
open.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \27\ GAO-20-206.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Aviation Businesses and FAA Actions to Address Workforce Supply 
                                Concerns
    Our draft report identifies a number of actions U.S. airlines and 
repair stations are taking to help bolster the supply of pilots, 
including the following illustrative examples.
      Offering higher pay and bonuses: Certain regional 
airlines have raised pay substantially to respond to increased pilot 
attrition to mainline airlines. For example, in August 2022, 
CommuteAir, a regional airline that is partially owned by United 
Airlines, announced that it is increasing starting pay for first 
officers from $51 an hour to $72 an hour, and for captains from $84 per 
hour to $100 per hour. Mesa Airlines also announced in August 2022 that 
it would begin offering starting wages of $100 an hour for first-year 
first officers, and $150 an hour for first-year captains, increases of 
118 percent and 172 percent, respectively. Regional airlines are also 
offering signing bonuses, captain upgrade bonuses, and retention 
bonuses.

    Mainline airlines have also increased pilot pay. For example, in 
October 2022, Alaska Airlines announced that it had ratified an 
agreement with the Air Line Pilots Association that offers pilot pay 
increases ranging from 8 percent to 23 percent, based on seniority. By 
2024, captains will be earning $300 to $330 per hour and first officers 
$108 to $228 per hour, depending on years of service.
    According to several sources, employers have modestly increased 
mechanic wages in the last 2 years, but consumer price inflation may 
have counteracted more recent pay increases. According to a 2022 
industry report, the hourly wage for an entry-level certificated 
mechanic rose from $21.54 in 2020 to $25.49 in 2022, a nearly 20 
percent increase.\28\ Additionally, officials from two repair stations 
we interviewed told us they had increased their wages for entry-level 
mechanics.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \28\ Aviation Technician Education Council, 2022 Pipeline Report.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Recruiting foreign pilots: According to FAA data, the 
number of foreign-licensed pilots seeking ATP certificates remained 
steady from 2017-2020 before increasing 191 percent from 2020 through 
2022. However, foreign pilots remain a small portion of the pilot 
workforce. Several regional and low-cost U.S. airlines--including 
Breeze Airways, SkyWest Airlines, ExpressJet Airlines, CommuteAir, 
Spirit Airlines, and Frontier Airlines--have recruited and hired 
Australian pilots to address workforce concerns during the pandemic 
recovery.

      Developing training schools and programs: Airlines, 
including United Airlines (Aviate Academy) and Republic Airways (LIFT 
Academy), launched flight schools in recent years to directly train 
their pilots and supplement their hiring pipelines. In addition, some 
airlines and repair stations use pathway programs with maintenance 
schools and universities to attract and retain entry-level mechanics, 
offer them employment upon graduation, and advance them throughout 
their career. To attract entry-level maintenance workers, two of the 
three repair stations we interviewed indicated that they had recently 
established apprenticeship programs, in which employers hire workers 
without, or with limited, aviation maintenance experience and provide 
on-the-job training to prepare them to pass the FAA certification 
tests. These programs often provide a condition of employment once 
apprentices have achieved their certification.

    As described in our draft report, FAA has also undertaken several 
efforts to enhance aviation educational outreach and to attract more 
youth and greater diversity to aviation careers. For example, in 
response to mandates in the 2018 FAA reauthorization, FAA has 
established two organizational bodies that have undertaken studies and 
developed reports and recommendations to encourage youth and women's 
involvement in aviation careers.\29\ These reports direct 
recommendations to Congress, FAA, and the aviation industry. According 
to officials, FAA is determining how the recommendations from these 
efforts could be implemented. The agency also plans to provide updates 
annually on the status of those recommendations for each effort on 
FAA's webpage.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \29\ In addition to responding to mandates in sections 602 and 612 
of the 2018 reauthorization by establishing the Youth Access to 
American Jobs in Aviation Task Force and the Women in Aviation Advisory 
Board, FAA also wrote the Youth in Aviation Outreach Report summarizing 
its existing outreach efforts to students who are interested in 
science, technology, engineering, and math (STEM) careers, as required 
in Section 601 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 2018. Pub. L. No.115-
254, 132 Stat. 3185, 3400.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In addition, FAA is awarding grants to programs geared toward 
attracting young people to aviation careers. The Aviation Workforce 
Development Grant Program was mandated by section 625 of the 2018 FAA 
reauthorization and is aimed at investing in the aviation workforce by 
helping to support the education and recruitment of the next generation 
of aviation professionals. The law established separate grant programs 
for pilots and aviation maintenance workers.\30\ The law also outlined 
dollar amount limits, eligibility requirements, and the authorization 
period for grant projects.\31\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \30\ According to FAA, the intent of the grant program for pilots 
is to support meaningful education designed to help students become 
aircraft pilots, aerospace engineers, or drone operators. The intent of 
the aviation maintenance grant program is to expand the aviation 
maintenance workforce, establish education and apprenticeship 
opportunities, and support activities to facilitate the transition to 
careers in aviation maintenance, including members of the Armed Forces.
    \31\ According to section 625 of the FAA Reauthorization Act of 
2018, each grant program is permitted to spend $5,000,000 each fiscal 
year, from 2019 to 2023. Each grant project is eligible to receive up 
to $500,000. The Aviation Workforce Development grant program has been 
authorized through fiscal year 2023.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In its initial round of funding in fiscal year 2022, FAA received 
more than 300 applications in total for the two programs. The agency 
awarded $5 million in funding to 16 recipients under the grant program 
for pilots. Additionally, FAA awarded $5 million to 15 recipients under 
the aviation maintenance grant program.\32\ FAA announced $10 million 
in grant awards under the two programs in January 2022, and the period 
of performance for each recipient is 18 months, ending in July 2023. 
Upon project conclusion, recipients are required to submit grant 
closeout reports that document all progress and performance 
metrics.\33\ FAA announced a second round of grant funding in April 
2022, for which applications were accepted until June 2022.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \32\ Eligible applicants include holders of a certificate issued 
under parts 21, 121, 135, or 145 of Title 14 C.F.R., or labor 
organizations representing aviation maintenance workers, accredited 
higher education or high schools, and state or local government 
entities.
    \33\ Recipients are required to submit several indicators semi-
annually to allow FAA to track the performance of grant projects, 
including: (1) a detailed description of program activities and 
recruitment events; (2) the number of individuals who enrolled in the 
program; (3) the number of individuals who successfully completed the 
program; and (4) the number of participants who successfully completed 
application or certification requirements necessary to become a pilot 
or aviation maintenance technical worker.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Several stakeholders we interviewed for our draft report--including 
officials from a labor union, a repair station, and an airline--
indicated support for the Aviation Workforce Development Grant Program.
    However, these stakeholders expressed concerns about the amount of 
funding provided. For example, officials from one airline told us that 
the current funding provided for the program was likely not large 
enough to make a substantial impact.
    Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Cohen, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, this completes my prepared remarks. I would be pleased to 
respond to any questions that you or other Members of the Subcommittee 
may have at this time.

    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Ms. Krause. Captain Ambrosi, you are 
recognized for 5 minutes for your opening statement.

 TESTIMONY OF CAPT. JASON AMBROSI, PRESIDENT, AIR LINE PILOTS 
                   ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL

    Mr. Ambrosi. Chair Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, Chair 
Graves, Ranking Member Cohen, and members of the subcommittee, 
thank you for the opportunity to offer my view on behalf of 
more than 67,000 pilots of the Air Line Pilots Association, 
International.
    I would like to thank this committee for its bold action in 
2020 to pass the Payroll Support Program. It prevented the 
collapse of the airline industry and saved American jobs. Your 
work guaranteed that this country would have enough pilots 
during the pandemic and could respond to demand-driven growth 
when recovery came. Thanks to you, the United States has more 
than enough pilots and the safest guys in the world.
    A decade earlier, this committee also came together in a 
bipartisan effort to take on a crisis in our industry, a series 
of fatal accidents, the last of which occurred near Buffalo, 
New York, in 2009. I am honored that the families of those who 
lost loved ones on that flight and on the ground are 
represented here today.
    In response to more than 1,100 lives lost in U.S. airline 
accidents in the 20 years prior to 2010, Congress heeded 
investigators who found that inadequate pilot experience and 
training had contributed to the crashes. In the 2010 FAA bill, 
you established stronger pilot qualification training and 
experience requirements and made other aviation safety 
improvements. Since then, passenger fatalities have dropped by 
99.8 percent. This year's reauthorization should be based on 
retaining these provisions.
    This pilot training framework has also produced tens of 
thousands more pilots over the past decade than airlines 
needed. The United States has certificated nearly 64,000 
airline transport pilots since July of 2013, while airlines 
have hired to fill approximately 40,000 positions.
    In this context, airlines' decisions during COVID to bump 
pilots to smaller equipment, park aircraft, as well as furlough 
and put pilots on inactive status, have created a training 
backlog. When demand and subsequently growth returned more 
quickly than some airlines anticipated, most of these pilots 
had to be retrained. Retraining is time-intensive and 
expensive. It also relies on a training footprint that includes 
personnel and simulator devices and wasn't designed for a 
global pandemic.
    Fortunately, we have more pilots available now than before 
the pandemic. As a result, the training backlog is already 
resolving itself as airlines get caught up. Moreover, pilot 
training classes are at capacity and college aviation programs 
are full.
    With the recovery and thanks to this committee's work, 
airlines are hiring pilots as companies expand marketshare and 
networks. As a result, new workers are performing new roles in 
an air transportation system that is already stressed and 
working to integrate new and expanding users. This is no time 
to weaken safety standards.
    The current labor market is complicated by pilots moving 
among carriers as they leave airlines that offer less 
attractive careers for those providing better paying quality of 
life.
    Regional airlines have traditionally offered second-tier 
paying work roles, and some would rather lower safety standards 
than pay pilots a living wage. This isn't how the United States 
became the gold standard in aviation safety, and it is 
predictable that pilots can pursue better opportunities.
    Large passenger and cargo airlines have 7,500 more pilots 
today than before the pandemic, even when we account for pilots 
who change jobs multiple times. While encouraging, we shouldn't 
lose focus on continuing to expand the pilot pipeline.
    In this year's FAA reauthorization, Congress should build 
on the strength of America's aviation workforce, maintain 
safety, and open the doors of opportunity for all those who 
aspire to fly by providing student loans for appropriate flight 
training programs, establishing grants to build flight training 
and education degree programs at minority-serving institutions, 
increasing funding for the Workforce Development Grant program, 
and making the Women in Aviation Advisory Board a permanent 
body.
    At the same time, we need a real dialogue about our 
Nation's commitment to air service to small communities. I flew 
for a regional airline, and I am committed to ensuring that 
small and rural community passengers have access to safe and 
reliable service. However, under deregulation, airlines base 
service decisions on market demand.
    ALPA stands ready to work with this committee to improve 
the Essential Air Service Program. We support increasing the 
subsidy cap, enabling the regulator and airlines to adjust EAS 
payments when appropriate, and modifying airlines' frequency 
requirements. Actions like these--not weakening safety 
standards--will provide the air service rural communities need.
    ALPA looks forward to collaborating with this committee to 
ensure this Nation continues to have an abundant supply of 
airline pilots and lead the world in aviation safety. Thank 
you.
    [Mr. Ambrosi's prepared statement follows:]

                                 
 Prepared Statement of Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, Air Line Pilots 
                       Association, International
    On behalf of the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), 
I want to thank you for inviting me to testify on the current and 
future aerospace workforce. My name is Captain Jason Ambrosi and I am a 
current and qualified international captain on the Boeing 767 at Delta 
Air Lines, and serve as the president of ALPA. ALPA is the largest 
airline pilot union in the world, as well as the largest 
nongovernmental aviation safety organization, with a history of safety 
advocacy spanning more than 90 years.
    Thanks to the leadership of Chair Graves and Ranking Member Cohen 
and many others on the Committee, the Payroll Support Program and its 
strong worker protection and retention provisions provided a bridge to 
guarantee there are a sufficient number of pilots to not only ensure 
system operability throughout and after the pandemic, but also to 
accommodate demand-driven growth for air carriers today. In the absence 
of bold intervention to invest in and preserve pilots and other airline 
personnel, we likely would not be having this hearing today. Carrier 
capacity would be extremely limited, and available pilot personnel 
would be a major constraint on passenger and cargo operations.
    A decade earlier, this Committee also came together, again in 
bipartisan fashion, to address another crisis in U.S. aviation: the 
unacceptably high number of airline passenger fatalities. In fact, in 
the two decades before Congress intervened to make life-saving changes 
to the law, more than 1,100 people were killed in Part 121 airline 
passenger operations. Since the passage of the 2010 Act, the United 
States has experienced a 99.8 percent reduction in airline passenger 
fatalities. So, I commend you for not only taking bold action to save 
tens of thousands of pilot jobs during the pandemic, but also for 
saving countless lives and establishing a framework for producing more 
pilots than the airline industry has needed over the past ten years.
    Much has been written about the current and future supply of pilots 
in the United States, with frequently little to no substantiation of 
information, misleading data, or a failure to account for a multitude 
of industry dynamics at play. Here are the facts: there are more than 
enough pilots to meet U.S. airline hiring demand; airline pilot growth 
has increased each year since the pandemic; and airline decisions to 
leave communities are market-driven business choices and should not be 
conflated with pilot supply. Training capacity has been the dominant 
pilot-related constraint on air travel. The displacement of pilots by 
carriers to ease costs combined with post-pandemic carrier hiring 
growth has created considerable attrition and a significant training 
backlog. These are the pilot labor dynamics prevailing today. The good 
news is that the system is resilient--and is working to correct this 
current, short-term situation. All while maintaining the United States' 
enviable position of having the golden standard when it comes to the 
safety of our aviation system.
    Responding to temporary post-COVID industry problems with permanent 
changes to pilot training and qualification requirements is ill-
considered and dangerous. The lifesaving safety improvements ushered in 
by this Committee through the Airline Safety and Federal Aviation 
Administration Extension Act of 2010 and attendant minimum first 
officer qualification rules is the framework by which the U.S. airline 
industry is safer than at any point in history. Attempts to undermine 
or otherwise alter or repeal this lifesaving set of requirements, 
including moving from an experiential-based training and qualification 
regime to a simulation-based system, threatens the lives of the 
traveling public and frontline aviation workers--and should be 
summarily rejected.
                 Pilot Supply and the Airline Industry
    Over the last decade, segments of the industry have speciously 
suggested there is an issue with pilot supply in the United States. 
This narrative does not reflect reality. In fact, according to the only 
publicly available data on pilot head counts at U.S. air carriers, the 
nation has produ62,972 pilots, while ALPA estimates that airlines have 
hired approximately 40,000 between 2013 and today. And in a sign of 
just how strong the post-pandemic pilot pipeline has been, there are 
more than 7,500 net pilots today at the large passenger and cargo 
carriers than pre-pandemic. Again, there are more than enough airline 
pilots to meet demand and that is thanks, in large part, to the 
leadership of this Committee.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
             Airline                12/31/2019   12/31/2022   Difference
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Delta............................       13,082       15,040        1,958
United...........................       12,251       13,831        1,580
American.........................       13,800       13,450         -350
Southwest........................        9,300        9,342           42
FedEx............................        5,028        5,912          884
JetBlue..........................        3,661        4,314          653
UPS..............................        2,800        3,500          700
Alaska...........................        3,048        3,292          244
Spirit...........................        2,390        3,184          794
Frontier.........................        1,492        1,997          505
Allegiant........................          947        1,100          153
Hawaiian.........................          869        1,012          143
Sun Country......................          368          571          203
                                  --------------------------------------
  Total..........................       69,036       76,545        7,509
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pilot counts from airline annual reports; FedEx data from ALPA member
  data; 2019 Frontier data from ALPA member data

    To most accurately quantify the number of pilots who can operate 
aircraft for FAR Part 121 air carriers (as opposed to all commercial 
pilots), it is necessary to examine the ATP multiengine rating (ATP-
MEL) holders. The ATP-MEL is the required license that pilots flying 
for Part 121 major, low-cost, regional, and cargo airlines hold \1\. 
ATP-MEL pilots include both ATP and R-ATP pilots who can operate 
aircraft for these air carriers. The current production of ATP-MEL 
certificated pilots has outpaced U.S. airline hiring needs to replace 
retiring pilots and has also covered the new hiring demand created by 
flying increases before the pandemic and today. Specifically, over the 
last nine-and-a-half years for which there is data, the FAA has issued 
62,972 certificates, while mainline airline carriers hired for 
approximately 40,000 pilot positions.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ This testimony will use ``ATP-MEL'' when discussing pilot 
supply and demand. This term covers ATP and Restricted-ATP certificate 
holders. ATP-MEL is the data series provided by the FAA for use by 
airline stakeholders, including Airlines for America (A4A), the 
Regional Airline Association (RAA), and ALPA. By using ATP-MEL, we 
ensure the removal of pilots with only single-engine licenses, which 
represent a fraction of ATP and R-ATP certificate holders. The data 
presented in this testimony therefore represents the most accurate 
statistical approximation of the pilot pool that can apply for and fly 
for FAR Part 121 air carriers.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Looking at the certificates issued by year versus cumulatively, 
there has been an average of more than 6,200 new ATP and R-ATP 
certificates issued every year since 2014, and that figure has 
increased since airlines have announced additional hiring needs. For 
example, from March 2021 to February 2023 the FAA has issued 15,759 new 
ATP and R-ATP certificates (or an average of 657 per month). This also 
means that more than half of all active ATP and R-ATP certificate-
holders under the age of 65 today received their FAA certification 
during the last nearly 10 years, signifying a younger cadre of new 
pilots who will remain in the industry for a long time. These numbers 
also reflect a demand for pilots to accommodate substantial growth in 
the airline industry year-over-year.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    As we examine various data to use in the discussion about pilot 
availability, it's important to frame the context under which forecasts 
for pilot demand or independent reports about pilot supply are created 
and published. For example, Boeing releases an annual forecast on the 
global commercial market that includes pilot demand. This forecast, 
based on fixed growth assumptions, is useful for the manufacturer's 
purpose of selling aircraft, but has limited predictive value for the 
U.S. airlines and the pilot profession, which are subject to cyclical 
dynamics, including recessions, fuel prices, and pandemics. Building 
aircraft is a time- and resource-intensive process that requires long 
lead-time horizons to match forecasted future demand for aircraft with 
a manufacturer's ability to design and build planes. That said, 
Boeing's latest forecast through 2041 predicts demand for the entirety 
of North America for the next 20 years to be 6,400 pilots a year, which 
is far below historic and current ATP production for the United States.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                          Source: EFA Research

    Oliver Wyman, a management consulting firm, has produced popular 
reports on both the global pilot and North American pilot pipeline 
following the pandemic. The firm's analysis, however, comingles North 
American supply with U.S. domestic pilot supply, and fails to provide 
any substantiating information for its sweeping conclusions about the 
U.S. market.
    Misinformation regarding pilot supply is often related to the 
little-understood effect of pilot retirements. During the pandemic, 
airlines offered various ``early out'' retirement-inducement programs 
primarily to pilots between the ages of 62 and 65 to help reduce costs 
for airlines and enable younger pilots to remain in their jobs rather 
than face furlough.
    While the prudence of this decision may be questionable in 
hindsight, these ``early outs'' had minimal effect on supply. Rather, 
they simply accelerated retirements that were already planned to take 
place in the following years for pilots subject to the statutory 
retirement age of 65. As a result, 2020 saw a higher-than-expected 
number of retirements as pilots in the oldest age bracket--
approximately 62-65 years of age--retired early. Consequently, this 
will reduce the number of retirements expected in the next few years. 
Specifically, retirements for 2024-2025 will be below pre-pandemic 
forecasts, with retirements stabilizing and returning to the pre-
pandemic, forecasted levels by 2025.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Dispensing with concerns related to the supply of pilots, ALPA 
understands that both the available pilot labor market and the 
provision of flying has been complicated, owing to the difficulties of 
returning from the pandemic. Most notably, there has been a significant 
training backlog as a result of the airlines' decisions during the 
pandemic to park planes, bump pilots off larger aircraft to smaller 
aircraft fleets and types, furlough during the lapse of the first PSP, 
and place pilots on inactive status. Given that piloting are a 
seniority-structured profession, this resulted in a massive, across-
the-board reallocation of pilots. Such decisions may have seemed 
reasonable to carriers as the industry, manufacturers, and analysts 
predicted an approximately three- to five-year recovery lag. However, 
because demand returned significantly quicker than airlines predicted, 
some have consequently had to reverse these decisions and effectively 
retrain nearly every pilot, often back to the equipment they flew prior 
to the pandemic, while accommodating new pilot hiring due to growth. 
This massive training event is costly (e.g., mainline retraining cost 
per pilot is approximately $22,000 to $55,000), time-intensive, and set 
against a fixed training footprint of limited personnel and simulators 
that was never designed to respond to a one-off event like a global 
pandemic.
    This training backlog has affected flying capacity as carriers have 
more pilots today than in 2019, but pilot utilization--as measured in 
block hours--is down. For example, ALPA's seven largest mainline 
passenger airlines have more pilots than in 2019 but are flying 
substantially fewer block hours as airlines struggle with pilot 
training throughput. The CEOs of American, Delta, and Southwest agree 
and have publicly declared to investors that the constraint on their 
flying is pilot training, not supply.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Delta Air Lines, Inc. Earnings Call, Q4 2021, American Airlines 
Group Inc. Earnings Call Q4 2021, Southwest Airlines Co. Earnings Call 
Q1 2022.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Many of the regional carriers have complained about the ``pilot 
shortage,'' but what they really face is pilot attrition. The regional 
airline industry is necessarily fragile by its structure. Mainline 
carriers use their regional ``feed partners'' to operate their regional 
flying in small markets set by contract. These contracts require the 
regional airline to cover labor expenses, aircraft maintenance, and 
aircraft ownership costs, while the major airline effectively controls 
and limits regionals' economic capability, including ticket pricing and 
schedules. This arbitrage strategy has historically resulted in low 
pilot regional pay, poor work rules, single-digit operating margins, 
fewer regional carriers, and pilot-retention problems.
    For decades, pilots entered these low-paying positions at a 
specific regional airline with a ``flow'' program to a major carrier 
partner. However, flow programs have diminished in size and scope, 
guaranteeing very few mainline positions, while the ULCC carriers 
increasingly provide an avenue for pilots to move to higher-paying jobs 
more quickly, achieve greater career progression, or bypass the 
regional system entirely. Currently, regional airlines are experiencing 
captain attrition, not inadequate numbers of first officers or overall 
pilot supply. Given the pay differential between regionals and their 
ULCC and mainline counterparts, captains have been leaving regional 
carriers as ULCCs and mainlines increased hiring the last two years. 
Mainline carriers in particular have been seeking first-mover 
advantages to build out their networks as demand for flying and, 
specifically, international flying opportunities increase. This post-
pandemic growth has created a temporary hiring binge by mainline 
carriers. By the admission of the largest regional carrier to its 
investors, with a new, higher-paying contract, they expect to ``manage 
attrition'' \3\ for captains while their first officer ``pilot classes 
[are] filled.'' \4\ This should be the case for many regional carriers 
who have followed suit in terms of improving pilot contracts.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ SkyWest Earnings Call, Q1 2022
    \4\ SkyWest Earnings Call, Q3 2021
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Since deregulation in 1978, airlines have made their business 
decisions based on expected consumer demand, geography of growth, route 
profitability, network planning and allocated flights, frequency of 
service, and aircraft purchases accordingly. With the cessation of the 
Payroll Support Program's requirement for continuation of air services 
for certain markets served prior to the pandemic, airlines began making 
substantial changes to meet pandemic-market demand, with leisure travel 
largely replacing small community business travel and many carriers 
ending or reducing service to markets they deemed no longer 
economically advantageous. While it is convenient for some airlines to 
blame pilot availability for their profit-based business decisions to 
abandon smaller communities, the facts simply don't back up the 
contention.
    Simultaneously, for nearly a decade, airlines have shifted to 
``higher gauge'' aircraft with more seats and away from fuel-
inefficient regional aircraft. According to Wall Street analysts, by 
retiring smaller regional jets in favor of larger and newer aircraft, 
carriers will ``see operating cost efficiency and market share gains'' 
\5\ by improving unit costs, matching consumer demand with supply, and 
improving aircraft features.\6\ Fifty-seat aircraft, which historically 
operate to smaller markets, are fuel inefficient, cannot accommodate 
high-end, first-class seating, are expensive to maintain, and 
consequently are being phased out by the industry.\7\ Put simply, 
airlines are in the business of making money and, right now, the profit 
is in leisure markets and in-demand cities through the use of larger 
aircraft. As a result, they are phasing out 50-seat regional jets in 
favor of narrowbody aircraft and reducing frequencies in favor of 
larger aircraft with high load factors and greater profitability. Such 
decisions, which are not made by pilots, are increasingly depriving 
small and rural markets of connectivity, business opportunities, and 
growth.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ ``En-gauging the Growth Engine.'' Morgan Stanley Research. June 
30, 2021.
    \6\ ``United Next--not just an aircraft order.'' Deutsche Bank 
Research. June 29, 2021.
    \7\ ``The 50-Seat-Jet Era Will End Soon at Republic Airways 
Holdings Inc.'' The Motley Fool. May 22, 2014.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As carriers rationalize their networks and increase the gauge of 
their aircraft, we must not let market demand sacrifice small and rural 
air service markets. We believe air service to small and rural 
communities is a national responsibility and that safe, efficient, and 
reliable air service to these communities is a critical component of 
our national air transportation system. We call on Congress to increase 
its support for the Essential Air Service (EAS) program, and to 
incentivize greater carrier participation and increased service. The 
goal of the EAS program was to ensure that air connectivity for smaller 
and rural airports remained. Congress has, at times, either through the 
FAA authorization process or annual appropriations bills, impaired the 
program by limiting funding, restricting eligibility criteria, and 
eliminating program expansion.
    Airlines have cancelled their EAS contracts and thus eliminated air 
service to smaller and rural communities. Remedying the market failure 
of the deregulated airline industry's provision of air service to rural 
and small markets will require consideration for changing the subsidy 
and enplanement cap, allowing air carriers to renegotiate EAS contracts 
to account for unforeseen operating costs, revising the DOT's 
calculation for driving distance, allowing communities that lost EAS 
service to regain or reestablish eligibility, and revise the DOT's 
process for carrier selection. ALPA looks forward to working with the 
Committee to balance these reforms with careful financial stewardship 
to help ensure the irrevocable benefits of community air service remain 
a federal priority.
                          Pipeline Development
    While the current supply of pilots is robust enough to meet demand, 
ALPA is fully committed to inspiring, developing, and supporting the 
next generation of pilots. Each year, ALPA connects with thousands of 
students--from elementary to university aged--to inspire young people 
from all backgrounds to see themselves as pilots. ALPA is also working 
to create an accessible, inclusive airline pilot workforce for all who 
are interested and for those who for too long have not been adequately 
represented in the pilot profession. Women and people of color, in 
particular, face significant barriers to becoming aviators--and that 
must change.
    Congress can and must do more to reduce the cost of flight 
training. Specifically, the FAA reauthorization provides an opportunity 
to amend the Higher Education Access Act of 1965 to ensure flight 
education and training qualify for federally subsidized student loans 
for four-year, two-year, and appropriately accredited Part 141 
programs. There is no reason for unequal loan treatment between a 
traditional college student and a student seeking to be a professional 
airline pilot, who must shoulder prohibitively costly private loans for 
training. More wholistically, reforming educational opportunities 
should include increasing participation for underrepresented or 
nontraditional, low-income, and rural populations as well as providing 
grants to build flight training and education degree programs at 
minority-serving institutions, including historically Black colleges 
and universities. To ensure prospective student success and long-term 
career attachment, qualifying programs should be structured and 
accredited training programs, and cost control should be a 
consideration given that higher education institutions' too frequently 
capture the cost of federal subsidy increases.
    This Committee should consider augmenting and growing the Workforce 
Development Grant Program originally authorized by the FAA 
Reauthorization Act of 2018. The program authorized support for 
educational and development projects for pilots and maintenance 
technical workers. We believe Congress must authorize and ultimately 
appropriate more resources for the program to have a greater impact. 
Additionally, we are supportive of adding new workforce eligibilities, 
including an aviation manufacturing program mirroring the existing 
programs.
    Similarly, more must be done to increase female participation in 
aviation professions. ALPA was proud to not only fight for the Women in 
Aviation Advisory Board (WIAAB) as part of the last FAA bill, but also 
to serve on the Board. The findings in the WIAAB's report confirmed 
that women and men experience their careers in aviation differently--at 
all seniority levels--with barriers being largely systemic and no one 
entity or sector responsible for them or their resolution. The Board's 
report calls for unions, industry associations, government agencies, 
and Congress to share the responsibility of making changes to the 
industry in five areas: culture, recruitment, retention, advancement, 
and data. For these identified measures, we believe it is important to 
make the WIAAB permanent so it can focus on increasing and supporting 
female pilots and other aviation personnel.
    We would also draw attention to the Report's many recommendations 
regarding scheduling, family leave, and accommodations for mothers, 
including the Nursing Mothers' Accommodations (#40) recommendation. It 
is long overdue that federal law stop discriminating against pilots and 
flight attendants regarding pumping by ending their exclusion from the 
Fair Labor Standards Act's (FLSA) provisions on break time and 
reasonable accommodations for nursing mothers when aboard aircraft. 
Congress passed the PUMP Act last year in order to remedy deficiencies 
in FLSA, but unfortunately industry lobbying killed provisions related 
to flight and cabin crew protections. Congress must end this gross 
inequity if it wishes to truly increase and support female growth and 
retention in the industry.
             Protecting and Promoting the Rights of Workers
    Any discussion of workforce development must consider the 
preservation of the core rights of workers. This includes both 
preserving the rights airline employees enjoy under state and local 
laws, as well as holding the Department of Transportation to account 
for its failure to exercise its authority to protect U.S. airline 
employees from domestic and foreign efforts to undermine their rights 
and working conditions.
    The long-term growth and prospects for the pilot profession and 
other aviation personnel is based on stability and dignity. This 
Committee should look to the FAA reauthorization to advance, rather 
than diminish, these core tenets.
    ALPA opposes changes to the Airline Deregulation Act (ADA), in 
particular its scope of preemption of state law. In 1978 Congress 
limited ADA preemption so as not to foreclose state and local 
regulation of traditional areas of state concern regarding labor and 
employee issues as applied to aviation workers. By expressly tailoring 
preemption of state law only to circumstances where the states directly 
regulate customer-centric prices, routes, and airline service, Congress 
balanced the industry's need for uniformity in its relation to the 
traveling public while respecting the states' traditional ability to 
protect and support its citizens. Our members, like workers throughout 
the economy, avail themselves of the benefits provided by state and 
local governments to care for sick spouses, children, and to address 
medical concerns outside the protections provided by their collective 
bargaining agreements. These long-established protections should not be 
arbitrarily foreclosed.
    As this Committee recently observed in the railroad industry, 
transportation workers care significantly about matters unrelated to 
pay, and the flexibility to provide and care for oneself and family is 
necessary for a stable industry. Attempts to expand the intent and 
statutory framework of ADA preemption to swallow up and preclude these 
important state law rights will negate this significant progress. In 
challenging state and local laws, the airlines have unsuccessfully 
litigated a series of cases which attempted to block labor, paid sick 
leave, meal and rest, and related laws, including recent denial of 
petitions of certiorari before the Supreme Court. The establishment of 
labor standards falls within the traditional police power of the 
State--a settled principle that applies with equal force to airlines--
and the connection between the ADA and labor policy is extremely 
attenuated, as recognized by the courts. Any attempt to amend or 
otherwise undermine the accepted status of the ADA's preemption 
provisions, contrary to the courts' interpretation, in the pending FAA 
reauthorization or any other legislation will needlessly undermine 
long-existing rights of workers and will be strongly opposed by the 
American labor movement.
    It is also long past time that Congress direct the Department of 
Transportation to consider all of the public interest factors related 
to the protection of U.S. airline workers in its statute. In 1980, 
Congress required the Department of Transportation to consider the 
effect its economic regulations have on U.S. aviation workers, 
including in airline licensing cases. Specifically, that the Department 
``encourag[e] fair wages and working conditions'' for U.S. airline 
employees (49 U.S.C. Sec.  40101(a)(5). However, since deregulation, 
the DOT has believed that Congress did not want employee matters to 
play a consequential role in DOT decision making, irrespective of the 
responsibility Congress gave to it to take these interests into account 
in the statute.
    In recent decisions, the DOT has essentially disregarded Congress' 
interest regarding the protection of U.S. workers. In 2016, the DOT all 
but ignored the statutory public interest to grant a foreign air 
carrier permit to an airline--Norwegian Air International--that engaged 
in forum shopping to undermine labor standards. In July of 2022, the 
DOT granted a U.S. airline operating certificate to Waltzing Matilda 
Aviation LLC without imposing any safeguards to prevent the airline 
from basing all of its employees abroad under foreign labor laws. By 
ignoring the public interest, this arrangement would open up the door 
for would-be investors to set up ``nominal'' U.S. carriers with 
otherwise no material ties to the U.S., U.S. employees, or U.S. labor 
law to operate airlines point-to-point in the U.S. Finally, the 
Department proactively removed an employee protective clause in the 
Delta Air Lines-LATAM Joint Venture that would have ensured U.S. 
employees a fair share of new flying rather than inequitably benefiting 
the foreign partner.
    The Fair and Open Skies Act seeks to remedy some of these failures 
by (1) restoring and requiring the multifactor public interest test for 
foreign air carrier permits (49 U.S.C. 41302), (2) adding a new 
criterion regarding the undermining of labor standards, and (3) 
including labor standards language in the negotiating objectives for 
State and DOT to consider in bilateral negotiations to help prevent the 
U.S. from entering agreements without considering potential harm to 
workers and mitigations. We hope this provision will be included in the 
Committee's FAA reauthorization legislation.
                   Pilot Training and Aviation Safety
    We have not experienced a major, catastrophic accident since 
February 2009. However, the absence of a fatal accident does not mean 
we have eliminated all risk. The incidents that have occurred over the 
last several months demonstrate that there is pressure on the system 
resulting in risk that we must mitigate. Recently, the FAA Call to 
Action in response to these recent incidents involving crew 
incapacitations, runway incursions, and near misses focused on these 
system pressures and methods to mitigate them.
    Accordingly, we must not introduce added risk to our aviation 
system by reducing qualification and experience requirements. Now is 
the time to refocus our efforts and make our aviation system even 
safer.
    In the years following the passage of the Aviation Safety and FAA 
Reauthorization Act of 2010, the airline industry ushered in sweeping 
changes to pilot qualifications and training and aviation safety that 
have profoundly improved airline operations and directly contribute to 
the U.S. aviation safety record. Previously, first officers were 
required to only possess a commercial certificate, which can be 
obtained in as few as 200 to 250 hours of total accumulated aircraft 
flight time. In the context of an FAR 121 operation using a multi-pilot 
flight deck, the commercial license as established decades ago did not 
keep pace with the changes to and increased complexity of aircraft and 
FAR 121 airline operations. Recognizing that the regulatory minimums 
were outmoded and no longer reflected the increased complexity and 
duties delineated between ``pilot flying and pilot monitoring'' of 
multiple flight deck crew operations, Congress required that each 
flightdeck crewmember for an FAR 121 air carrier hold an airline 
transport pilot certificate. Despite Congress's recognition of the 
critical importance for each pilot on the flight deck to possess an 
Airline Transport Pilot certificate and the experience commensurate 
with the responsibility of transporting passengers in FAR 121 
operations, this vital requirement has been under attack since this was 
passed into law in 2010 after a series of fatal accidents.
Simulator Use in Pilot Training Leading to Becoming a Professional ATP 
                           Certificated Pilot
    Simulators are very useful tools for certain components of pilot 
training, but have express limits, including for pilots learning to 
fly. Specifically, these devices are unable to fully replicate flying 
an airplane in the dynamic airspace system with changing weather 
conditions, traffic density, communicating with ATC, listening to ATC 
communications with other aircraft to maintain situational awareness of 
their location, and continuously monitoring the system status of the 
aircraft.
    In order to maintain the safety of our skies, we should never 
remove real-world experience--and certainly not with the current post-
COVID stressors on the system. Applying more simulator training toward 
the issuance of pilot certificates (i.e., Private, Commercial, ATP), is 
unwise and likely to increase risk in the system. High fidelity 
simulators are great training devices, but the technology has not yet 
progressed to the point of making these devices useful in building 
flight experience and replicating a dynamically changing environment 
necessary to build judgement and decision making. Performing to 
operations in canned scenarios in an artificial environment cannot 
replace experiential learning through flying a real airplane in the 
NAS. The simulator airspace and air traffic control environment is 
artificial and cannot fully simulate the complexity, variability, and 
communications every pilot experiences in the NAS. Therefore, extensive 
experience in the unstructured actual real-world complex airspace 
environment, managing expected and unexpected ATC clearances, weather, 
traffic, and maintenance issues, is essential to developing the skills 
pilots need.
    There are essential skills that pilots acquire with experience, 
such as those that develop a pilot's judgment to make quick, safe 
decisions under pressure and preventing situations from escalating. 
While attempts are made in training to recreate experience that builds 
these skills, this real life experience cannot be equaled with training 
in a simulator.
    By contrast, simulators are well suited for introducing procedures 
to pilots in a controlled training environment, particularly flying 
instrument procedures (e.g. instrument arrivals and approaches to 
airports). But as a pilot is learning to fly instrument procedures, 
putting them into practice in actual flight with all the associated 
pressures and demands is completely different. In the simulator, if a 
pilot does something wrong or gets confused, the flight can be stopped. 
As pilots build experience toward qualifying for the ATP by flying in 
real world conditions, they are forced to resolve and safely continue 
flight when encountering problems. This builds resilience, judgement, 
decision making and ensures the pilot is capable before they have the 
responsibility of transporting hundreds of passengers or large 
quantities of cargo.
    Similarly, simulators have limitations for learning how to control 
the aircraft through coordinated use of the flight control systems. 
Maintaining coordinated flight ensures safe control of the aircraft, 
and is a critical skill pilots develop as they obtain their required 
training and experience for certificates. Failure to maintain 
coordinated flight can cause loss of control accidents which have been 
a leading cause of fatalities.
    Overreliance on simulators as pilots are learning to fly and become 
professional ATP certificated pilots would be a detriment for pilot 
skill, judgement, and decision-making development, and ultimately 
flight safety. Simulator credit should not be increased and should not 
replace experience operating a real airplane in the airspace system. 
The current requirements to gain experience in an actual airplane, 
which limit the number of hours in a simulator toward a pilot 
certificate, are critical for developing requisite pilot skills.
    It is important to note that the term simulator is often used 
generically to describe a wide range of flight training devices and 
requires further clarification to delineate the capabilities of the 
device are and how closely it can replicate flying an airplane. Some 
training devices only resemble a generic aircraft but not a specific 
aircraft like a Cessna 172 or a Boeing 737. Some devices may be 
operated from a laptop (e.g. Microsoft Flight Simulator) while others 
are a replica of an actual flight deck sitting on top of 6 hydraulic or 
electric legs that cause the unit to move similar to the aircraft's 
movements. It is important to know exactly what device is being 
proposed for what use.
    Aviation Training Devices (ATD) provides a platform and design for 
both procedural and operation tasks without motion. In contrast, most 
air carrier flight simulation is conducted using Full Flight Simulators 
(FFS) and Flight Training Devices (FTD). The latter two devices are 
collectively referred to as Flight Simulator Training Devices (FSTD). 
FFSs move around to mimic the motion of an airplane climbing, 
descending, and turning in order to help replicate the sensations a 
pilot feels in an airplane. FTDs are more advanced than ATDs but, like 
ATDs, they do not have motion capability, and some don't have a visual 
system to provide a simulated view out the flight deck window. FFSs are 
currently only required to be used by air carriers during the final 
evaluation stage of air carrier flight training, and a small number of 
specific tasks during air carrier training leading up to 
evaluations.\8\
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    \8\ See Part 60 Table B1B in Attachment 1 of Appendix 2 and the 
March 30, 2016 14 CFR Part 60, Flight Simulation Training Device 
Qualification Standards for Extended Envelope and Adverse Weather Event 
Training Tasks; Final Rule, Federal Register page 18206.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Very few flight schools have invested in a multi-million dollar FFS 
due to the cost to operate FFSs, particularly when an ATD is allowed by 
regulations to be used for the simulator time that can be applied 
toward pilot certificates. Thus, the advanced FFS that most closely 
resemble flight are not heavily utilized at most flight schools.
    The current FAA regulations allow for up to 100 hours \9\ of the 
total time required to qualify for an ATP to be obtained in a FFS, FTD, 
or an ATD through a Letter of Authorization (LOA).\10\ \11\ Due to the 
option for LOA approval of ATDs, if more simulator time were granted 
toward the ATP or other certificates, much lower fidelity devices than 
FFSs will be used. Even if the highest fidelity FFSs were required to 
be used without exception, safety would be sacrificed due to FFSs still 
not fully replicating flight in an airplane, which is essential when 
pilots are still training to become professional ATP certificated 
pilots. Once pilots are ATP certificated, simulators are well suited 
for helping to ensure their skills are retained, and to exercise 
essential skills that are rarely encountered when flying a real 
airplane (e.g. engine failure).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ 61.159(a)(6) ``Not more than 100 hours of the total 
aeronautical experience requirements of paragraph (a) of this section 
or Sec. 61.160 may be obtained in a full flight simulator or flight 
training device provided the device represents an airplane and the 
aeronautical experience was accomplished as part of an approved 
training course in parts 121, 135, 141, or 142 of this chapter.''
    \10\ 2016 final rule--Aviation Training Device Credit for Pilot 
Certification--https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2016/04/12/
2016-08388/aviation-training-device-credit-for-pilot-certification--
``FAA approves the use of ATDs for private pilot, commercial pilot, and 
airline transport pilot certification through the issuance of LOAs 
under the Administrator's authority in Sec. 61.4(c).''
    \11\ 61.4, Qualification and approval of flight simulators and 
flight training devices (a) states ``Except as specified in paragraph 
(b) or (c) of this section, each flight simulator and flight training 
device used for training,''; (c) states ``The Administrator may approve 
a device other than a flight simulator or flight training device for 
specific purposes.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) also currently 
sets the limit at 100 hours \12\ of simulator time that can be applied 
toward an ATP. If the U.S. were to allow additional simulator credits, 
the FAA would have to file a difference and be out of compliance with 
the global standard at ICAO. In addition, the FAA has established a 
joint industry-government committee specifically to discuss, 
prioritize, and provide recommendations to the FAA concerning pilot 
training. This committee, the Air Carrier Training Aviation Rulemaking 
Committee (ACT ARC) \13\ is the appropriate venue to consider any 
proposals to increase simulator time allowed to be applied toward the 
ATP. Again, at a time of dynamic changes in the aviation system, 
including constant industry-wide hiring and integration of new 
entrants, we should not be considering adding additional risk by 
lowering training and experience requirements.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \12\ ICAO Annex 1, section 2.6--ATP, paragraph 2.6.3.1.1 ``The 
applicant shall have completed not less than 1,500 hours of flight time 
as a pilot of aeroplanes. The Licensing Authority shall determine 
whether experience as a pilot under instruction in an FSTD is 
acceptable as part of the total flight time of 1,500 hours. Credit for 
such experience shall be limited to a maximum of 100 hours, of which 
not more than 25 hours shall have been acquired in a flight procedure 
trainer or a basic instrument flight trainer.''
    \13\ See public ACT ARC website--https://www.faa.gov/about/
office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/afx/afs/afs200/afs280/
act_arc/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    An important consideration regarding pilot training must consider 
how pilots actually build flight time. Contrary to the rhetoric that 
new pilots gain 1,500 hours of flight time by renting a small airplane 
in fair weather, many pilots after obtaining a commercial pilots 
license will obtain a certified flight instructor (CFI) certificate and 
get paid to instruct the next generation of pilots as their primary 
means of building the flight time experience needed to acquire an ATP 
certificate. Additionally, pilots fly for commuter or on demand air 
carriers in revenue service conducting operations under Part 135 
regulations, typically with 9 or fewer passengers. Finally, pilots also 
build their flight time experience to qualify for an R-ATP or full ATP 
by flying for a charter operator with a local fixed base operation 
under FAR 135 and business or corporate flying under part 91 or 91K. 
Some pilots will do a combination of all these things after they obtain 
their commercial pilot certificate in order to build experience to 
qualify for an ATP. However, most will flight instruct either at the 
university where they completed their degree or at a civilian flight 
school. Put simply, pilots build hours toward the ATP or R-ATP 
certificate by flying in real world conditions, which gives them 
necessary experiential training to progress to flying transport 
category aircraft under FAR 121.
    Increasing the hours that can be done in the simulator would also 
significantly hamper the ability to maintain the needed CFI population 
to train future pilots. After pilots obtain their appropriate 
certificates (i.e. private pilot and commercial pilot) and instrument 
and multi-engine ratings, they typically have around 200 to 250 hours 
of flight experience. This leaves pilots with 800 hours of experience 
to build to qualify for the R-ATP pilot certificate. Currently CFIs are 
reaching the qualifications to train new CFI's \14\ before they meet 
the current requirements to be a First Officer for an FAR 121 air 
carrier. Reducing the number of hours or adding credits toward an ATP 
will negatively impact the availability of flight instructors and cause 
significant strain on flight schools and aviation colleges.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \14\ See 14 CFR, Part 61, 61.195(h), Qualifications of the flight 
instructor for training first-time flight instructor applicants
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I appreciate the Committee's thoughtful and thorough consideration 
of our industry's workers and our contributions to the safest period in 
air transportation in history. The pilots of ALPA stand ready to assist 
this Committee with its important policy and oversight work.

    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Captain Ambrosi. Yesterday, the 
committee received a letter from former FAA Administrator and 
former ALPA president Randy Babbitt and former Acting FAA 
Administrator and airline pilot Dan Elwell, encouraging the 
committee to consider the quality of training hours for pilots 
on their way to an ATP. I ask unanimous consent that a copy of 
that letter from two former FAA leaders be entered in the 
record.
    Seeing no objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                                 
 Letter of April 18, 2023, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Rick 
Larsen, Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, 
and Hon. Garret Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, 
   Subcommittee on Aviation, from a former Administrator and Acting 
Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration, Submitted for the 
                     Record by Hon. Rudy Yakym III
                                                    April 18, 2023.
The Honorable Sam Graves,
Chairman,
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, 2165 Rayburn House 
        Office Building, Washington, DC 20515.
The Honorable Rick Larsen,
Ranking Member,
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, 2164 Rayburn House 
        Office Building, Washington, DC 20515.
The Honorable Garret Graves,
Chairman,
Subcommittee on Aviation, 2165 Rayburn House Office Building, 
        Washington, DC 20515.
The Honorable Steve Cohen,
Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Aviation, 2164 Rayburn House Office Building, 
        Washington, DC 20515.
    Dear Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, Chairman Graves, and 
Ranking Member Cohen:
    We write to you today to share our thoughts on the airline pilot 
shortage and our recommendations on how we believe Congress and all 
stakeholders can work together to modernize the way we train and 
qualify airline pilots.
    There is no denying that the United States has a very real shortage 
of airline pilots. As a result, airlines are eliminating markets and 
curtailing growth. The impacts to domestic air service and connectivity 
are staggering.
    Testifying before the U.S. Senate Commerce Committee last year, 
Transportation Secretary Buttigieg called the pilot shortage ``a 
national issue'' that is `` . . . affecting the whole domestic aviation 
industry but disproportionately affecting smaller regional airlines.'' 
\1\ We agree. And, this national issue requires immediate and focused 
attention by Congress, U.S. regulators, and all aviation stakeholders. 
We can and should resolve the pilot shortage, but we must do so while 
maintaining the incredible safety record we have worked so hard to 
achieve.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ U.S. Department of Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg, 
Testimony before the U.S. Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and 
Transportation (May 3, 2022).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Drawing on our combined century of aviation experience,\2\ with 
more than forty years as airline and military pilots, we recommend the 
following solutions:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Randy Babbitt is a Former FAA Administrator, ALPA President and 
Airline Pilot. Dan Elwell is a Former FAA Deputy Administrator, FAA 
Acting Administrator, Airline Pilot, and United States Air Force Pilot.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1.  Advance regulations governing pilot training and qualification 
to keep pace with continuous improvements in training programs and 
technology.
    2.  Update the pilot training model to achieve better-designed 
academic and mentored flight training.

    Taking both steps will create a more diverse and well-qualified 
pilot pipeline, ensure greater safety in the training environment, and 
significantly improve training outcomes.
    Before 2013, most regional airline First Officers held a commercial 
certificate when hired and needed an Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) 
certificate with 1,500 hours in flight before upgrading to Captain. In 
the Airline Safety and FAA Extension Act of 2010 (2010 Airline Safety 
Act,) \3\ Congress mandated that all pilots, including First Officers, 
must hold an ATP before being hired by an airline. Recognizing the 
benefits of structured training, Congress also directed the Federal 
Aviation Administration (FAA) to approve additional qualification 
pathways with fewer hours but more structured training, when doing so 
enhanced safety more than fully complying with the flight hours 
requirement. The FAA finalized the First Officer Qualification rule in 
2013, requiring an ATP certificate with 1,500 flight hours for First 
Officers without approved structured training backgrounds and approving 
three structured training pathways for First Officer qualification 
where fewer flight hours but more structured training produced at least 
an equivalent level of safety.\4\ Today, First Officers qualify with 
1,500, 1,250, 1,000 or 750 flight hours, depending on their training 
background.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ P.L. 111-216 (August 1, 2010).
    \4\ FAA Final Rule on Pilot Certification and Qualification 
Requirements for Air Carrier Operations, 78 Fed. Reg. 42324, 42352 
(July 15, 2013); and Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Extension Act 
of 2010, Pub. L. No. 111-216, Sec.  217, 124 Stat. 2348 (2010).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While the new First Officer standards set the U.S. apart from the 
International Civil Aviation Organization \5\ by requiring six times 
more pre-hire flight time than anywhere else in the world, we are not 
suggesting that the FAA should revoke these requirements. However, the 
FAA should continue to advance the regulatory framework it put in place 
a decade ago, which today fails to allow for, let alone incentivize, 
the continuous improvement in pilot training that Congress intended.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ ICAO, located in Montreal, Canada, is the international body 
for aviation standards.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additionally, the regulations do not sufficiently distinguish 
between flight unsupervised/non-training flight hours and supervised/
training flight hours. For most pilots, flight hours usually take place 
in a small, piston engine aircraft in clear weather, and uncrowded 
airspace. Supervised training flight hours entail a combination of 
exceptional curriculum, flight instruction, flight simulation, and 
relevant practice, practice, practice. Pilots can practice in 
airplanes, flight training devices, and simulators. Simulator training 
assures exposure to all-weather events and emergencies that cannot be 
safely practiced in flight. In contrast, racking up non-training flight 
hours does little to improve the skills, knowledge, and experience 
demanded of pilots operating in a multi-engine, multi-crew, busy 
airline environment.\6\ Unfortunately, because of regulations written 
decades before the incredible advances in full-motion, high-fidelity 
simulators, and advanced training devices, pilots are restricted from 
logging more than about seven percent of their ATP-qualifying time in 
simulators. As a result, most pilots accumulate over 75 percent of 
their airline-qualifying flight hours outside of a curriculum and 
monitored environment. There is an old aviation quote that is 
particularly fitting: ``The pilot who teaches himself [or herself] has 
a fool for a student.'' \7\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \6\ Pilot source studies, see: www.pilotsourcestudy.org
    \7\ Robert Livingston, Flying the Aeronca, 1981.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Refreshing the regulatory environment with additional structured 
training programs can ensure more of our future commercial airline 
pilots receive training in a multicrew environment, learning critical 
commercial airline concepts like Crew Resource Management and standards 
of professionalism. An updated training model would also allow flight 
schools to continuously adapt to new advancements in aircraft 
technology and training techniques. Experience tells us that an updated 
model should increase, rather than limit, time spent in modern 
simulators that expose trainees to emergency scenarios and hostile 
weather events like icing and thunderstorms--too dangerous to learn or 
practice in the air. Airlines' own flight training has also evolved. It 
is not a coincidence that today's commercial airline pilots complete 
nearly all necessary initial or transition flight training in a 
simulator.
    Unfortunately, the U.S. pilot training paradigm is flipped from 
where it should be. Today's approach maximizes `simple flight hours' 
but allows minimal credit for the use of advanced simulator and ground 
training devices; we strongly believe it should be the other way 
around. The FAA can and should continue to evolve alternative 
qualification pathways to keep pace with continuous improvements in 
training programs and technology. The U.S. Air Force is doing just 
that, and their pilot training is rightfully seen as the gold standard.
    Advancing the regulatory framework will drive innovation and 
encourage the development of more quality flight training programs, 
facilitating greater access to the pilot profession from a broader and 
more diverse population. This is particularly important when many 
aspiring pilots cannot afford today's flight time-centered pathways. 
Most importantly, our future pilots will be better trained, in a safer 
training environment with a dramatically smaller carbon footprint.
    We thank you for the opportunity to share our thoughts and 
recommendations and we stand ready to work with you, the Committee, and 
all stakeholders to modernize our pilot training regulatory framework 
and model by incentivizing `quality flight hours' through FAA-approved 
structured training programs. Doing so will help address the airline 
pilot shortage and help to restore air service losses felt by so many 
communities. Most importantly, it will further enhance the United 
States' enviable aviation safety record.
                                       J. Randolph Babbitt,
                      Principal Partner, Babbitt & Associates, LLC.
                                                Dan Elwell,
                               President, Elwell & Associates, LLC.

    Mr. Yakym. I now recognize myself for 5 minutes as we will 
now be moving into Member questioning. Thanks again to our 
witnesses for being here as we examine the challenges facing 
the aviation workforce. In the last few weeks, I visited the 
South Bend International Airport in my district as well as the 
Lift Academy for Republic Airways in Indianapolis. A common 
theme for both visits was the pilot shortage.
    South Bend has big plans for new routes to further connect 
our community to the rest of the world and drive our local 
economy forward. But the feedback they are getting from the 
airlines is they are interested, as they have specific routes 
planned that are identified that we discussed in the meeting, 
but they don't have the pilots to do it, and they can't add the 
flights until they have the crews, and right now they are 
telling us that they have no crews.
    So, let's be clear. I think the United Airlines CEO put it 
best in a recent earnings call, and I quote: ``There is a pilot 
shortage, and that is real. And it is going to take years to 
resolve.''
    Something I want to focus on this morning is training and 
the concept of quantity versus quality. The value of the hours 
spent in a Cessna--as I have gone through pilot training myself 
and am a check ride away of having my own private pilot 
certificate--and the value of someone like me spending time in 
a Cessna running laps around an airfield on a bright sunny day, 
stands in stark contrast to an hour in a simulator learning how 
to respond to emergency scenarios that builds muscle memory in 
preparation for an emergency scenario.
    Mr. Thress, you say that simulators can capture a pilot's 
performance data that can then be used to show the pilot how 
and where to improve. How prevalent is that technology today? 
And can you give us a quick example of how that works, how data 
points are captured, and what the presentation back to the 
pilot looks like?
    Mr. Thress. Gladly. So, very similar to most commercial 
airplanes have a focal system which measures the pilot's 
performance both with respect to where he puts the airplane in 
the airspace, the simulators also capture control position 
inputs during different maneuvers.
    So, a good example is an engine failure during takeoff. The 
most critical time for an engine failure is that decision speed 
called V1. And we train that for every pilot that we train. So, 
if a pilot's struggling with the V1 cut, as we refer to it, we 
can show him how he is manipulating the physical controls of 
the airplane versus a successful maneuver. And he can say, OK, 
I am putting in the wrong rudder, or I am putting in not enough 
rudder, or I am putting in too much rudder during the cut. So, 
you can multiply that across a whole variety of different 
maneuvers, but that is the basics of how it works. I hope I 
answered your question.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you. And can an aspiring airline pilot 
learn any of that flying in a Cessna, as I do, under ideal 
conditions?
    Mr. Thress. So, training in the aircraft itself is limited 
to some, what I would call, marginal scenarios. So, let's take 
that same engine failure as an example.
    So, if you do an engine failure training in the airplane, 
instead of total loss of the thrust, the power is typically 
reduced to idle where the engine is still making 30 to 40 
percent of its maximum thrust. So, there is the first on 
realism.
    The second one is for safety reasons. The engine power 
cannot be reduced until at least 500 feet above the ground. So, 
you kind of miss the whole critical training element of the 
engine failure occurring at the most critical point of V1.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you. Mr. Ambrosi, let's consider two 
theoretical aspiring airplane pilots. One spends 1,500 hours 
flying in Class E or Class Echo airspace with zero simulator 
time. The other has completed 1,500 hours, 1,400 of those were 
spent in Class E airspace. But 100 of those were in a simulator 
environment of a regional jet flying in Class Bravo airspace. 
In varying weather conditions and mechanical scenarios, we see 
the data-driven debriefs showing how they can improve their 
response to the scenarios. Which pilot do you think is better 
prepared to be an airline pilot?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Well, sir, thank you for the question. I would 
point out that the current system allows for 100 hours of 
simulator training, just as in the scenario that you point out.
    Mr. Yakym. So, which one of those pilots again would be 
better prepared, do you believe?
    Mr. Ambrosi. As long as that simulator training has the 
curriculum to it where they are actually practicing that, and 
they are not just sitting in a simulator, or sitting at a desk 
or a laptop, then I would agree with you that that scenario 
would be a better trained pilot.
    Mr. Yakym. So, we can agree that not all flight-hours are 
created equally, and that the quality of time spent in the 
simulator--if it is quality time--is indeed time that is well 
spent?
    Mr. Ambrosi. If it is quality time. But I will point out 
that there is no replacement for experience. I will tell you I 
have been flying for over 25 years in an airline environment, 
and simulators are critical. I have spent more time in a 
simulator than anybody in this room. And we train specific 
things--engine failures, just like the gentleman said. However, 
I am not paid to fly a simulator. I am paid to fly people 
across the Atlantic to their destinations in Europe in a real 
environment where things come up that you are not expecting in 
real-world conditions. So, yes, there is significant value to 
simulation time, but there is no replacement for those of us 
that operate in the real world with passengers behind us.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Mr. Ambrosi. I will now recognize the 
ranking member, Mr. Cohen, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Captain Ambrosi, do you 
think 15 hours is sufficient time for a pilot to train in 
flight?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Did you say 15 hours or 1,500 hours?
    Mr. Cohen. 1,500.
    Mr. Ambrosi. So, if I may, we hear the 1,500-hour rule a 
lot. So, 1,500 hours is a basis which is a number that is out 
there. If you have advanced academics, you can drop down to 
1,000 hours, 1,250 hours, 750 hours because of the recognition 
of military training. So, there are plenty of pipelines. And 
almost 50 percent of all the pilots that go to the airlines are 
coming through one of those other programs that recognize less 
than 1,500 hours. So, it is not a direct 1,500-hour rule.
    I will also point out that under the current law, the 2010 
bill, people can bring--proposals can come in front of the 
aircraft--the ACT ARC, Air Carrier Training Aviation Rulemaking 
Committee, just like those did, and there can be credit. So, 
all the proposals that are bringing on simulator time or 
anything else can go to the ACT ARC can be recognized. There is 
a process in place. There is no legislative change required.
    Mr. Cohen. Do you think it would be a good idea to maintain 
the current rules?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Absolutely. Look, since 2010, fatalities are 
down 99.8 percent. I mean, that is a number that nobody can 
play with statistically. Fatalities are down 99.8 percent. We 
haven't had a fatal accident. We are the safest in the world.
    Comparing ourselves to other places around the world that 
have lower training--do people in small communities deserve 
less safe service? No. We should be striving to improve safety 
and not just have some lower level of safety just because we 
have had a good 10-year period with no fatalities.
    Mr. Cohen. Would you think it would be a good idea to keep 
the current rule which we have and also add, say, 60 hours on a 
simulator in addition to the time you have in flight?
    Mr. Ambrosi. I would point out that, let's say, 1,500 
hours: 100 of that already today can be in a simulator.
    Mr. Cohen. Right, but let's say you take that out of that, 
and you make the 1,500, and less, 750 for the military, et 
cetera, you are up in the air flying around on a pretty day, et 
cetera, et cetera. And then add to it an additional 60 hours in 
a simulator, that is in addition to, not in lieu of.
    Mr. Ambrosi. There would be nothing wrong with that, but I 
would say today's rule allows for simulator time that is not 
even being used.
    Mr. Cohen. Right.
    Mr. Ambrosi. But most of that 100 hours is not being used 
today. So, they could go ahead and use that 100 hours today.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. Mr.--is it Threece [sic]?
    Mr. Thress. Thress.
    Mr. Cohen. Thress, I'm sorry. Do you think the 1,500 hours 
is good or bad, the rule we have got with the annotations that 
the captain----
    Mr. Thress [interrupting]. Yes, I think I would shy away 
from the 1,500-hour rule, making comment on that. I think it is 
for the regulator to observe. I am just saying that of the 
hours that typically go toward the 1,500, a lot of them are at 
a very simple, unrealistic, as was discussed previously, not 
relevant to the commercial airline operating environment, in 
that the simulator is much more valuable than flying around on 
a blue sky day in a 172.
    Mr. Cohen. Well, what about keeping the rule like it is and 
adding that you also have to do 60 hours in a simulator.
    Mr. Thress. Yes, I have no objection to that. And I think 
that would add value and add richness and experience and build 
safety for the aviation industry.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. Now, let me ask the panel to 
refresh my recollection. I have had some memory of an African-
American pilot--and this goes to a lack of African-American 
opportunities in the air industry--but an African-American 
pilot who I think flew around the world solo. And he might have 
been from Miami. And he might have got in some--are you 
familiar with it?
    Ms. Black. Yes.
    Mr. Cohen. Is there a program that he got started or he was 
part of in Miami to try to get students there involved in the 
aviation industry? And how has that worked out?
    Ms. Black. I think you are referring to Captain Barrington 
Irving.
    Mr. Cohen. Yes, that's right.
    Ms. Black. It is wonderful. If I had a check for $1 
million, I think I would try and give it to what he is doing, 
because he has shown people in communities that are similar to 
the community that he came from that there is room for them in 
aviation. I think it has been a great success. He has moved 
this. He's now got documentaries going, and so, it has been 
great on outreach. But he is also showing them how to get into 
the industry. Unfortunately, those high career barriers remain, 
and so, we need to follow up those great outreach efforts where 
things that actually give people funding to access this career 
we have woken them up to.
    Mr. Cohen. Since J. Beresford Tipton is not here to give 
you $1 million, how would you recommend that Congress with its 
millions of dollars utilize Mr. Irving and his program?
    Ms. Black. We all had a great start with the workforce 
grant programs. That has been really important. Those were 
oversubscribed on the maintenance side. On the pilot side, that 
could be expanded to a pay a little bit more for pilots that 
are trying to go through training and education and support 
some of that. So, increasing that funding would be a help. And 
we expect legislation, the Flight Education Access Act, that 
will help right-size the gap between what you can get out there 
in student loans that are capped today and the actual cost of 
flight training, which is inherently more expensive.
    And there is about an $80,000 gulf. So, if you come from a 
lower income family, you can't get across. And, in fact, we 
have a very modest scholarship program. We give about $4,000 or 
$5,000 out a year. But we often hear from people that if it 
were not for that modest amount we gave them, they would have 
stopped the education flight training part of their program. 
So, it is clear we need to do more to give people education 
funding.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you. Could you share some of the 
information about Mr. Irving with my staff, so that we refresh 
my recall, and maybe we can contact him?
    Ms. Black. We would love to share information and make an 
introduction if you would like.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you so much. I yield back.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Ranking Member Cohen.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Bean for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bean of Florida. I thought it was going to be a lot 
longer, Mr. Chairman, so, thank you so much.
    And good morning, panelists. Good morning, T&I 
subcommittee. What an honor to be with you and for you all to 
be forward.
    Captain Ambrosi, you are a lot of time sitting up front in 
the plane. Sometimes you are sitting in the back. If you are 
sitting in the back of the plane, what scares you? What do you 
worry about if you are sitting in the back of the plane? Do you 
ever get concerned about anything? What should the public be 
concerned if they are sitting in the back of the plane?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Maybe food poisoning. No, in all seriousness, 
our airlines have great food. I am not going to--look, it is 
about having well-trained pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, 
making sure that this industry is as safe as it is today.
    What I worry about are the attacks by special interests to 
roll back or change regulations that have worked. Again, we are 
back to a--this is simple--99.8-percent reduction in fatalities 
in the last 10 years since the 2010 FAA bill. It is easy. We 
don't have to talk about any other numbers besides that.
    Safety, let's do things to enhance. Let's make it better. 
We are the gold standard of aviation: my first ever hearing in 
the short 3 months I have been in this position. What are we 
going to do to make that even better? We shouldn't be talking 
about equivalent or rolling back. We should be: How do we make 
it better?
    There has been a series of recent incidents. It has been in 
the news. I participated in an FAA safety panel. With those 
kind of things going on, because of all the new in the system, 
why are we discussing potentially rolling back or decreasing a 
level of safety?
    Mr. Bean of Florida. Ten-four, ten-four. No, thank you for 
sharing that.
    I am on several other committees. I am on Education and the 
Workforce, Small Business. Of course, all these committees meet 
at the same time. But you name the industry and everybody is 
suffering from lack of skilled workers in their industry. You 
name it, and so, everybody.
    So, we have to rethink how we are getting kids fired up 
about careers, whether they are a pilot or an auto mechanic or, 
more importantly today, an aircraft mechanic or somebody that 
can fix a simulator.
    So, let's rethink it. The Pell grant. I know, Dr. DeVivo, 
you talked about changes to the Pell grant. More money is one 
thing, but is there anything we need to do? Pell grant is now 
50 years old. What do we need to change to the Pell grant 
besides just adding money to it?
    Ms. DeVivo. That is a great question. So, for most students 
from underresourced communities, Pell is helpful, but it is all 
the expenses around going to school that are often not funded. 
So, if you are commuting, how do I afford a bus pass? How do I 
make sure I can afford my books? How do I make sure I can eat?
    Vaughn students, oftentimes, six times over the last year 
they experienced a shortfall in income, right? And it is often 
for things like rent and Wi-Fi and those kinds of expenses. And 
so, Pell is terrific in that it helps support tuition and fees, 
but it is those expenses around college that are very----
    Mr. Bean of Florida [interrupting]. I got you. That is part 
of growing up, though. Going to college is not just the 
classes, but it is learning that you have got to do your 
homework, and no one is there to get you up.
    So, what do we need to do? If we were going to make--if we 
were going to make over our education system and to make a 
path, what would it look like? I know you have programs to 
teach mechanics.
    Ms. DeVivo. Pilots, engineers.
    Mr. Bean of Florida. But you are a college. What about the 
kid that doesn't even go to college? How do we--and I will 
throw this as a tossup to anybody. How do we reach--we are not 
doing a good enough job to get kids--I say kids but just young 
people or anybody, really--fired up about different 
professions. What do we need to do? Anybody want to jump in?
    Brad Thress, what say you?
    Mr. Thress. So, I am really out of my swim lane here, but I 
would say that the culture in America toward education is 
overly focused on the 4-year degree, and I think we need to 
start early in high school and channel people and create----
    Mr. Bean of Florida [interrupting]. Right. How do we do--I 
agree with you. How do we--I mean, do we have----
    Mr. Thress [interrupting]. You have to create a pathway.
    Mr. Bean of Florida [continuing]. Career days? I mean, 
would it be industries? Would you take some kids to let them 
shadow with some of your mechanics?
    Mr. Thress. Certainly. But I think the pathway has got to 
be very clear. So, the pathway toward becoming a commercial 
airline pilot at Embry-Riddle is crystal clear, down to the 
hour.
    Mr. Bean of Florida. Yes.
    Mr. Thress. That pathway toward becoming a windmill 
technician or an auto mechanic or a sim tech is not as clear, 
and it has to start early. It has to start in high school.
    Mr. Bean of Florida. Got you. Got you.
    Captain, jump in.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes. I would just add that we understand. And 
at the Air Line Pilots Association, we begin our reach all the 
way down to middle schools. We do over 1,000 visits a year at 
middle schools. We are trying to expand to make a more diverse 
workforce. Our pipeline is full because, as you said, it is 
very clear how to get there, but we need to get people 
inspired--minorities, women.
    My daughter is 8 years old, and I want her to have 
opportunities that females 30 years ago when I was going 
through it didn't have. So, it is about getting out there and 
doing that outreach.
    Mr. Bean of Florida. Ten-four. My time is expired. I love 
the conversation, love the ideas and thoughts. And so, thank 
you for being a part of the debate today. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Mr. Bean. I always appreciate your 
enthusiasm, sir.
    And with that, I would like to recognize the ranking member 
of the full committee, Mr. Larsen, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Thank you, Chair.
    First, I would like to enter into the record statements 
from the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations, the 
Southwest Airlines Pilots Association, the Flight School 
Association of North America, and Captain Sully Sullenberger, 
all supporting the preservation of the current 1,500-hour rule, 
in addition to other comments they have.
    Mr. Yakym. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                                 
  Statement of Captain Larry Rooney, President, Coalition of Airline 
   Pilots Associations, Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
    Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, and members of the 
committee, on behalf of the Coalition of Airline Pilots Associations 
(CAPA) and the 35,000 professional airline pilots we represent, I would 
like to thank you for the opportunity to provide a statement for the 
hearing record.
    I am Captain Larry Rooney, President of the Coalition of Airline 
Pilots Associations (CAPA), the world's largest professional pilot 
trade association, representing more than 35,000 pilots at American 
Airlines, UPS Airlines, NetJets, Republic Airways, Atlas Air, Horizon 
Air, ABX Air, Omni Air International, Silver Airways and Cape Air.
    CAPA would like to extend our appreciation to the Transportation 
and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Sam Graves, Ranking Member Rick 
Larsen, members of this committee, and staff for holding this important 
hearing. The unprecedented safety record that we've benefitted from, 
since Congress mandated the higher qualification standards, should 
serve as a testament to the life-saving benefit that it brings to the 
aviation industry.
    Today, we are at a crossroads. The aviation industry is 
experiencing significant safety-critical stressors highlighted in a 
recent FAA Safety Summit, which barely scratched the surface of the 
long safety road that lies ahead. Do we allow near-term operating 
pressures that the industry is experiencing to erode our exemplary 
safety record, or do we continue to hold firm that safety remains 
paramount. As stated by my friend and colleague Captain Sully 
Sullenberger, ``There's simply no substitute for experience in terms of 
aviation safety.'' I wholeheartedly agree with his real-world analysis 
and perspective.
    The responsibility of safely transporting passengers through a 
congested air traffic control system in challenging atmospheric 
conditions can only be learned, developed, and honed through actual 
flight experience as the safety of the traveling public demands no 
less.
    CAPA fully supports the ATP as the minimum requirement for all Part 
121 and 135 pilots employed by U.S. commercial air carrier operators, 
congressionally mandated and contained within the Airline Safety and 
Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 (Pub. L. 111-216) 
that the Airline Transport Pilot (ATP) License serves as the minimum 
standard for employment as a pilot with an FAA Part 121 or 135 air 
carrier.
    The ATP provides the academic coursework, flight training and 
experience needed for the safe piloting of today's complex, high-speed 
aircraft through a congested, multifaceted air traffic control network 
in challenging weather environments.
    All mainline and regional air carriers now require the ATP for 
employment and to provide for the ``One Level of Safety'' that the 
traveling public deserves.
    The 1,500 flight hours that the ATP requires develops a mature, 
experienced and professional aviator who has the foundation to exercise 
prudent judgment while being responsible for the safe transportation of 
hundreds or many times thousands of passengers during a typical flight 
duty period.
      Entry-level First Officers have immediate flying duties 
and are equitably responsible as the Captains they serve for the safe 
operation of the aircraft and for the passengers lives entrusted to 
them.
      ATP requires 500 cross-country flight hours, 400-night 
hours.
      ATP training and evaluation standards are tailored to 
commercial operations at large airports with complex arrival and 
departure procedures.
      Achieving the ATP requires additional requirements for 
validation and evaluation generating more complete pilot performance 
documentation.
      1,500 hours develops better airmanship skills.
      Spatial orientation, physiological factors and 
situational awareness are finely honed with more flight time.
      Commercial pilot (only) licensed aviators account for 3x 
the accidents as ATP licensed pilots.
      50% of US domestic flights are flown by Regional 
Carriers.
      ``Quantity'' of flight hours have a ``Quality'' of their 
own.

    The previous minimum hiring requirement for U.S. commercial Part 
121 and 135 operators was 250 flight hours, a commercial pilot license 
and an instrument rating.
    Similar to the medical profession where a doctor who is responsible 
for only one life at a time must first complete undergraduate study, 
medical school, residency and pass board certified exams, CAPA believes 
airline pilots should be held to the same rigorous standards contained 
within the ATP process before practicing their craft.
    CAPA does not support any additional reductions beyond the 
requirements already contained in the ATP pathways established by 
Congress.
    Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, and members of the 
Subcommittee, I would like to thank you again for the opportunity to 
provide a statement of the hearing record. I am happy to respond to any 
questions that the subcommittee may have.

                                 
Statement of Captain Casey Murray, President, Southwest Airlines Pilots 
       Association, Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
             Maintain ``Gold Standard'' in Aviation Safety
    Following the tragic 2009 Colgan Air crash near Buffalo, New York, 
Congress passed the Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration 
Extension Act, sometimes called the ``1500-hour rule.'' This act 
mandated that all Part 121 pilots obtain an Air Transport Pilot 
(``ATP'') rating. Flight simulator time can account for up to 25 of 
those required training hours for an ATP. Creating the ATP 
requirement--including its subcomponents like simulator training 
ratios--represented a collaborative and bipartisan effort between the 
FAA, National Transportation Safety Board, labor, and Congress.
    The ATP requirement (1500-Hour Rule) has led to the safest period 
in commercial aviation history. We have experienced only one inflight 
fatality amongst all major carriers. However, it is not uncommon for 
advocacy groups to petition the FAA or Congress to reduce or water down 
the 1500 rule when they wish to increase the number of available ATP 
pilots. The FAA has repeatedly denied petitions to reduce pilot 
training hours because of the increased risks doing so would represent 
to passenger safety.
    The Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (``SWAPA'') opposes 
reducing or watering the 1500-Hour Rule--including lowering the 1500 
total hours or expanding the simulator hour portion. Doing so would 
threaten to degrade a safety system that is working remarkably well. 
However, if increasing the number of available ATP pilots is a goal, 
SWAPA can offer three shovel-ready solutions to preserve the U.S.'s 
``Gold Standard'' of aviation safety.
                       Resolve Testing Bottleneck
    There are four paths to becoming an ATP certificated pilot--the 
U.S. military with 750 hours, a two-year collegiate flight program with 
1250 hours, a four-year collegiate program with 1000 hours, or private 
flight instruction with 1500 hours. Most collegiate or airline flight 
school graduates return to either entity after graduation to instruct. 
They spend approximately 18-24 months to accrue the required hours to 
achieve their R-ATP/ATP certificate. However, a significant testing 
backlog often has pilot applicants waiting months to test and advance 
through their certification rating process.
    The FAA authorizes experienced non-government pilots--called 
Designated Pilot Examiners (``DPEs'')--to administer and certify flight 
examinations of pilot applicants on the Agency's behalf (under 14 CFR 
183.23). Unfortunately, there aren't enough DPEs to satisfy demand. The 
FAA tried to address this issue in some way in 2018 by removing 
geographical limitations on DPEs and increasing the number of tests per 
day DPEs can perform. Despite these efforts, however, the DPE shortage 
persists. As of February 2022, only 942 DPEs exist nationwide. Of those 
942, almost half of those DPEs perform less than 50 tests per year.
    Congress can increase the new pilot supply to regional and major 
airlines by increasing the supply of DPE's thereby reducing the 
training bottleneck. In addition, the 2018 FAA Reauthorization 
established a DPE Working Group to provide recommendations to address 
the DPE shortage. The Working Group submitted its recommendations to 
the FAA in 2021. SWAPA remains neutral on the specifics of those 
recommendations but encourages all stakeholders to continue their work 
to address this staffing issue.
                 Remove Financial Barriers to Training
    The average cost per student to an airline-sponsored flight school 
is $100,000. Additionally, once a pilot trainee graduates from a flight 
school, they still have to accrue additional hours, which is costly. 
However, Americans pursuing flight training don't have access to the 
same loan rates and structures available to traditional college and 
vocational school attendees. They cannot utilize 529 Savings plans to 
save for this career path. Additionally, it is not uncommon for the 
testing backlog to force students to take longer than four years to 
complete their training. Exceeding this timeframe can trigger problems 
with the underlying grant and/or loan requirements.
    These financial barriers discourage trainees from pursuing an 
aviation career. There are currently bipartisan and bicameral 
legislative proposals to resolve these disparities. SWAPA supports 
these efforts to remove financial barriers to aviation training.
                 Reduce Special Issuance Medical Delays
    Pilots must receive medical clearance from the FAA every six months 
for Captains and 12 months for First Officers to remain in the air. If 
a pilot experiences a health event or medical condition, they must 
obtain a Special Issuance Medical. Unfortunately, as currently 
administered by the FAA, the special issuance medical process is beset 
by extremely lengthy delays that keep pilots grounded in limbo for 
months to years without resolution.
    Pilots can wait several months to years before receiving a 
determination from the FAA to resolve any special medical flags. In 
some cases, these bureaucratic delays persist even if the pilot 
received subsequent medical clearance from their FAA-approved health 
provider. These delays and lack of transparency keep untold numbers of 
experienced pilots out of duty well beyond what's necessary for due 
diligence. SWAPA supports efforts to reform the FAA special issuance 
medical process to improve transparency, efficiency, and get more 
qualified pilots back in the air.
                               Conclusion
    SWAPA strongly opposes efforts to reduce--or otherwise water down--
the current ATP requirements. Undermining the Rule would degrade safety 
while running a real risk of lowering the pilot supply in the medium-
to-long term. Reducing the ATP requirements may provide a short-term 
boost to the number of pilots initially qualifying for hire. However, 
doing so would lead to a mass exodus of existing flight school 
instructors and worsen the training bottleneck. Most flight school 
instructors are pilots working to accrue their ATP-required hours 
before leaving to join an airline.
    The Colgan Air tragedy is a constant Northstar for all 
stakeholders. Safety can never be sacrificed, even to increase worker 
availability. Fortunately, there are ways to improve pilot training 
output without degrading safety. Congress can increase the availability 
of DPEs, remove financial barriers to training, and resolve special 
medical delays. SWAPA stands ready to help Congress and the FAA address 
these crucial issues.

                                 
 Letter of April 18, 2023, from Robert Rockmaker, President and Chief 
    Executive Officer, Flight School Association of North America, 
              Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
                                                    April 18, 2023.
The Honorable Steve Cohen,
Ranking Member--Subcommittee on Aviation,
U.S. House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee, U.S. House of 
        Representatives, Washington, DC 20515.
    Dear Ranking Member Cohen,
    The Flight School Association of North America (FSANA) which was 
formed in 2009 would like to go on record as fully supporting that the 
``1,500-hour'' rule remain in place with no changes.
    The United States has continued to experience the safest 13 years 
in the history of airline transportation in America in large part 
because of the ``1,500-hour'' minimum requirement for pilot training as 
passed by Congress in 2010.
    The 2010 Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Act was 
the first piece of new airline safety legislation to be adopted in over 
20 years, brought about by the crash of Colgan Air flight 3407 in 2009. 
The accident killed 49 people on board and one person on the ground. 
The 2010 Act requires airline pilots to complete a minimum of 1,500 
hours of flight time under most circumstances.
    A deviation from current regulatory practices that have served to 
produce the safest period of airline travel in the United States since 
they were implemented represents a major risk to the flying public.
    A deviation from the current regulatory practices would result in a 
significantly higher turnover rate of Certified Flight Instructors 
(CFIs) at flight schools. This would further exacerbate the industry's 
ability to train new pilots.
    A majority of airline pilots have started their careers as CFIs. 
The experience they gain from teaching new Ab Initio pilots is 
priceless due to the myriad of flight experiences that take place in 
the early days of new pilot training.
    Flight school owners and operators have spoken loud and clear that 
any reduction in the ``1,500-hour'' rule will create a serious CFI 
turnover which will hinder the pilot training pipeline due to a lack of 
qualified pilots to teach new students. The current pace of Ab Initio 
training would be greatly reduced leading to further pilot supply 
issues.
    Nothing replaces experience and FSANA like all aviation segments 
has safety as the highest priority. Nothing can come before safety. 
Creating a quality safety culture is accomplished by never ending focus 
and improvement and safety is not established by luck. FSANA fully 
supports that the ``1,500-hour'' rule remain in place with no 
deviations.
    Thank you very much and we stand ready to be a resource to the 
committee and appreciate the work being conducted by the committee.
        Sincerely,
                                          Robert Rockmaker,
     President and CEO, Flight School Association of North America.

                                 
 Press Release of April 19, 2023, from Ambassador Sully Sullenberger, 
              Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
                                         Contact:                  
                                          Carie Ferreira McGrane   
                                         (415) 640-3767            
                                        [email protected]
For Immediate Release

April 19, 2023
  Amb. Sully Sullenberger Denounces Attempts To Cheapen Pilot Training
    san francisco--Ambassador Sully Sullenberger, who recently served 
as the U.S. Ambassador and Permanent Representative to the 
International Civil Aviation Organization, and is best known for 
successfully landing his disabled jetliner on the Hudson River with no 
fatalities in January 2009, has long spoken about the need for quantity 
and quality when it comes to new pilot training--and how we can and 
must have both. He released the following statement ahead of today's 
House Subcommittee on Aviation hearing:

        ``Airline industry lobbyists and some in Congress are still 
        trying to cut pilot training in half to cheapen and quicken it. 
        That is a dumb and dangerous idea. With the recent shocking 
        airline near misses and close calls, now is absolutely not the 
        time to cut corners. No one would want their loved ones to 
        board an airliner piloted by a crew not able to handle whatever 
        challenges they will face.''

    Ambassador Sullenberger will be listening to today's hearing--``FAA 
Reauthorization: Examining Current and Future Challenges Facing the 
Aerospace Workforce.'' He is a speaker, author, safety expert, and an 
ardent advocate for the safety of everyone who flies. His lifelong 
preparation and leadership enabled him to safely guide US Airways 
Flight 1549 to an emergency water landing in New York City's frigid 
Hudson River--an inspirational and iconic moment in modern history. 
During his tenure as Ambassador to ICAO, a United Nations Specialized 
Agency, he reasserted U.S. leadership there, tackling the aviation 
crises involving Belarus, Russia, a Middle East airspace dispute and 
climate change. He has also testified before Congressional committees 
several times, as recently as 2019.

                                 # # #

    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Thank you.
    So, first question is for GAO and Heather Krause. You 
mention on page 11 of your report, which I think, first off, 
the report does a good job of outlining the phalanx of 
challenges that we face and then some solutions for it.
    But on page 11, you discuss infrastructure constraints, by 
which you mean school infrastructure facilities' ability to 
train students, as well as the increasing demand from 
traditional aerospace and from the emerging AAM industry.
    And I am wondering if GAO has done anything specifically 
about a study on the AAM industry with regards to the 
employment opportunities but also the shortage or the dearth of 
folks who can help that industry as well.
    Ms. Krause. Yes. We did some work looking at the projected 
timelines at this stage for AAM, and as part of that, 
understanding some of the challenges that the industry faces. 
And so, one of them is workforce challenges.
    The skills, we did explore with stakeholders the types of 
skills that are needed for that workforce. So, things like 
increased understanding of electrification and power systems is 
one example. But the standards haven't been set and the skills 
are sort of still being developed or determined that are going 
to be needed for those types of aircraft as those aircraft are 
being designed and certified. So, that is kind of driving what 
would be needed for better understanding what kind of workforce 
is needed.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. OK. Thanks. And not to be too 
obvious, but I will be very obvious. Another reason why maybe 
it is a good idea to increase the authorization levels for 
section 625, because it is clear from the amount of 
applications that come in that we are hardly meeting the demand 
right now.
    Ms. Krause. Yes. The range of stakeholders we spoke with 
had some concerns about the funding levels.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Yes. Great. Thanks.
    Dr. DeVivo, just turning a little bit differently, what 
actions have you seen as most successful in keeping costs down 
for students or for helping students?
    Ms. DeVivo. Are you asking about one specific program or 
just in general about how to keep costs down?
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. I am asking you what actions have 
been most successful in keeping costs down for students.
    Ms. DeVivo. So, I am not sure I completely understand what 
you are asking in terms of--you mean as an institution?
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. I am not trying to be 
belligerent. It is a simple question.
    Ms. DeVivo. No, no, no. I am just trying to understand.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. It is a simple question about 
what are the best opportunities, what are the best actions and 
easiest for students to use in order to keep their cost down 
for aviation schools, in your experience?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes. So, it will vary by State. Some States 
are--in addition to Federal funding, whatever that State is 
doing in terms of helping to support that student. And I am 
really limiting my comments to those from low socioeconomic 
backgrounds. So, any prep that they can do before they get to a 
collegiate program--and we do everything from aviation 
maintenance training to engineering programs--so, on the 
aviation maintenance training side, the rules that just changed 
after 50 years in September helped us to put the general 
license in high schools. So, that can help save money. So, then 
you are only coming to us needing an airframe and a powerplant.
    P-TECH programs, if you are familiar with Federal funds 
that are administered to States, where you can work with a 
local high school so that a student gets 30 credits of high 
school and only needs 30 credits at the collegiate level, has 
an associate's degree. We are doing that in avionics, aircraft 
electronics. And we find an industry partner. So, it is the 
local high school, us, and in this case AAR. Now you are only 
paying for 30 credits of collegiate education.
    So, those are a couple of different ways. Having more of 
the work, the prep work done to the extent that we can in high 
schools certainly helps in that pathway. The nice thing about 
aviation is you can be flying from a young age. You can't get 
certified, but you can at least be flying.
    So, when students come to us at 10th and 11th grade, I will 
say, did you take a demo flight? Start to get a sense of what 
the career path looks like. You can start to build hours even 
before you get to us. Those are some of the options that really 
help lower the cost for families.
    Mr. Larsen of Washington. Thanks. I appreciate that.
    And I appreciate it, Mr. Chair. I just wanted to ask some 
other questions other than the 1,500-hour rule. We are getting 
a good debate on that, and I think that is great, but the 
workforce development part of the FAA bill title will be 
addressing much broader issues as well, and I wanted to be sure 
to get some other things on the record.
    And I want to thank Captain Ambrosi for being our witness 
here today. Thanks.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Ranking Member Larsen.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Nehls for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Listen, we all understand that pilots undergo frequent and 
higher levels of testing than most any other high-stakes 
profession. Pilots who turn the age of 40 are required medical 
evaluations every 6 months, an EKG every 12 months, and 
performance tests every 9 months, recurrent training and 
qualification programs approved by the FAA, and regular flight 
test performance evaluations.
    Pilots over the age of 60 also undergo frequent simulator 
assessments to verify their continued competence and flight 
skills. These assessments provide an evidence-based--an 
evidence-based--measure of a pilot's decisionmaking, reaction 
time, communication, and overall performance. And there is no 
better measure of the competencies required for safe and 
effective flight than simulator assessments, regardless of age.
    In 2007, the FAA changed the age of pilots on large 
carriers from age 60 to 65. Back then, ALPA was against raising 
the age. They fought against it aggressively. Once it was 
passed into law and the age was raised to 65, ALPA reversed 
course and supported the decision to raise the age.
    Mr. Ambrosi, are you familiar with the name Captain John 
Prater?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes, sir, former ALPA president.
    Mr. Nehls. OK. Mr. Prater was ALPA's president back in 2007 
when the age limit was raised to 65. In a speech in 2010, Mr. 
Prater praised the decision to raise the age and said it has 
helped with the pilot shortage.
    Mr. Ambrosi, are you familiar with his speech?
    Mr. Ambrosi. I am not.
    Mr. Nehls. OK. It is my understanding his speech was on 
ALPA's website last year, and now it can no longer be found.
    Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask unanimous consent to have 
Mr. Prater's speech entered into the official record.
    Mr. Yakym. Without objection, so ordered.
    [The information follows:]

                                 
    Speech of Captain John Prater, Then-President, Air Line Pilots 
   Association, International, Before the Aero Club, July 19, 2010, 
             Submitted for the Record by Hon. Troy E. Nehls
                              Address By:
                     Captain John Prater, President
                   Air Line Pilots Association, Int'l
                Before the Aero Club of Washington, D.C.
                             July 19, 2010
    The airline industry is different from any other in the tension 
that exists between its two missions. On one hand, airlines are treated 
like public utilities that are expected to provide safe, secure, low-
cost transportation to the general public. On the other hand, the 
airlines are for-profit companies that are expected to make money. 
Balancing these missions has become complex.
    I'm honored to provide the views of nearly 53,000 airline pilots at 
38 airlines in the United States and Canada on how we can achieve these 
seemingly divergent missions. As president of the Air Line Pilots 
Association, International, I would like to express my appreciation to 
Bob (Bergman) and the Aero Club of Washington for having me here today 
for this luncheon.
    Whether we are airborne at 35,000 feet above the Capitol or 
shadowing the Potomac on approach to Washington National, airline 
pilots have a unique and unrivaled perspective from the flight deck 
about how regulations and legislation created in this city affect our 
passengers and cargo, as well as our nation's role in the global air 
transportation system.
    As pilots, our investment in our company is unlike that of almost 
any other U.S. worker. Our seniority system encourages mentoring so 
that we can pass along our decades of flight experience to the next 
generation of airline captains. It positions us to hold safety as our 
highest priority. It also allows us to say NO when safety concerns rise 
to the point of conflict with profits or operational metrics. The 
seniority system should serve to make us career-long stakeholders in 
our airline, because leaving our company means starting over and 
essentially destroying the value of our decades of experience.
    The seniority system, which has been called our ``lead handcuffs,'' 
has far too often been used as almost a weapon against us during 
collective bargaining or Chapter 11 reorganization.
    But the safety and stability that pilot seniority systems are 
designed to create have come under intense pressure in the face of 
consolidation or other corporate transactions. And many airlines are no 
longer viewed by airline pilots as career opportunities. In fact, one 
manager of a large regional carrier has called the abundance of pilot 
experience on his seniority list the ``death spiral'' of pilot costs. 
What a shame that pilot experience is seen as a financial liability 
instead of an asset when it comes to attracting more business.
    I would like to lay out for you today our view of how government 
policy makers, and industry and union leaders, can offer all of our 
constituents a more stable future.
    First, we must take a step back and look at the state of our 
profession and of our industry. In the years since 9/11, airline pilots 
and other airline employees have, of course, as you all know, been 
besieged by carrier bankruptcies and had to endure staggering 
concessions, brutal pension terminations, and widespread job losses.
    Moreover, the last 30 years of relatively low barriers for entry 
into the airline industry, widely available capital, and the increasing 
ability to reach and sell products to consumers via the Internet have 
made it much easier for start-up airlines to come into this industry.
    Unfortunately, this ease of entry has led to the start-up of new 
airlines that are often under-capitalized and ill-prepared to execute a 
long-term business plan. As these airlines enter the market, they have 
a dramatic effect on pricing and force their established competitors to 
price irrationally in order to compete.
    Over time, when new entrants file for bankruptcy, go out of 
business, or merge, as they often do, the established airlines have 
absorbed huge losses, often entering reorganization themselves.
    The industry as a whole suffers from these poorly performing new-
entrant airlines, a result that clearly works against the long-term 
goal of a safe and stable air transportation system.
    As one competitive response, the name-brand airlines have increased 
the practice of outsourcing much of their domestic and North American 
flying, which has created a new airline business model. Whether this 
model is called fee for departure, pro-rate, system extenders, or 
regional airlines, it has succeeded in lowering overall pilot and labor 
costs, but it has eliminated the many benefits of retaining experienced 
and loyal, career-minded employees who now struggle to earn enough to 
provide for their families.
    Where do airline pilots stand in this new scenario? Many of you 
here today witnessed the shock expressed by members of Congress and the 
news media when it was revealed that pilots flying 30- to 90-seat 
airliners can expect to earn as little as 16,000 or 17,000 dollars a 
year.
    In addition, this frenzy to cut costs has prompted many airlines to 
push pilots to work the maximum number of hours that regulations allow. 
Coupled with minimum staffing of pilots and obscene scheduling 
practices, this focus on productivity and cost-cutting forces pilots to 
spend many more hours on duty, whether it is measured by day, month, or 
year.
    This reality not only affects the pilots of today, it also 
influences the pilots of tomorrow. The cost of the basic education 
needed to become an airline pilot can easily approach 200,000 dollars 
or more, and so the prospect of spending such a sum to land a piloting 
job earning less than 20,000 dollars a year simply doesn't make sense, 
not to us, not to anyone.
    Today's reality does not bode well for our industry's ability to 
attract the most talented individuals to my profession. The recession 
that took place in this country during the past two years, along with 
the change in the mandatory pilot retirement age in 2007, has buffered 
us against a true pilot shortage.
    However, the recent economic momentum and approaching massive 
retirements mean that more qualified airline pilots will be required 
than are willing to work for the bankruptcy-driven wages and quality of 
life that we witness at far too many airlines today.
    Yet, in the face of all of this, I am proud to say that airline 
pilots stand as consummate professionals who safely fly millions of 
passengers and millions of tons of cargo every day.
    So, what do pilots in the cockpit and passengers in the cabin need 
from Washington if we are to revitalize a stable, safe, and profitable 
industry, now and for the future?
    ALPA believes the plan must be set on a five-point foundation. We 
need to:
      Create a national-level aviation policy that ispart of a 
U.S. transportation policy;
      Establish a single, high level of safety andsecurity for 
ALL passenger and cargo airlines;
      Develop and maintain the best trained, mostcompetent 
pilot workforce in the world;
      Modernize the National Airspace System;and
      Forge a U.S. international aviation policy that provides 
an effective balance among U.S. economic, security, airline, passenger, 
and worker interests.

    The first of these five points is ensuring that our national 
policies promote opportunities for U.S. airlines to prosper, create 
good jobs for U.S. workers, and allow our companies to compete 
effectively and profitably with foreign airlines.
    Identifying the policies, or lack of policies, that form barriers 
to stability is the first step. National polices must be scrutinized 
and reset if they do not advance the goal of stabilization.
    One example is the current taxation structure. Incredibly, you have 
heard it before and you will hear it again, airline tickets continue to 
be taxed at least as heavily as tobacco and liquor in this country. 
This is outrageous, and I think we can all agree that Congress must 
correct it.
    Another example is fuel speculation. While prices are relatively 
stable now, dramatic swings in prices and high costs add significant 
stress to the industry and make long-term planning almost impossible. 
This, too, must be rectified. ALPA was proud to partner with the ATA on 
related provisions of the financial legislation that is now before the 
President and which we hope will address this concern.
    The second point of our foundation is the need to ensure that the 
airline pilot workforce continues to be the best trained, most 
competent in the world, and that pilots uphold and maintain the highest 
standards of professionalism.
    Given a decade of concessions and the ``race to the bottom'' 
pattern in the regional segment of the industry that I mentioned 
earlier, we also must position our industry to attract and to retain 
the highest-caliber candidates.
    For most of our history, the U.S. airline industry has been able to 
count on a steady supply of military-trained aviators who were eager 
for a full airline career following their service to our nation. Those 
days are over.
    Today, a majority our pilots come from the civilian and university 
programs, and, unless our industry offers pilots a better future than 
it does today, our airlines will soon face a severe problem.
    The third of our five points? We need to ensure a single, high 
level of safety and security for all airlines, regardless of whether 
their pilots carry passengers or cargo or what type or size of aircraft 
they fly.
    A foundational element of this single level of safety must be 
science-based flight-time and duty-time limits and minimum rest 
requirements and to make sure that they apply to all types of flying.
    The cooperation among ALPA, government, and industry partners 
through the formation and the work of the Flight/Duty Time Aviation 
Rulemaking Committee set the pace for progress toward the common goal 
of a new, updated set of regulations based on science.
    This initiative by the FAA and the DOT must finally get airborne. 
While we understand this is a comprehensive and very complicated 
regulation, I do hope the September forecast is met.
    The failure to complete the FAA reauthorization continues to put a 
hold on many critical safety enhancements. The versions of the 
reauthorization currently under consideration by the conferees will 
address many of ALPA's safety priorities, including policy improvements 
in the pilot fatigue area, weather research on volcanic ash and 
airframe icing, and runway safety.
    The FAA reauthorization also makes an important down payment on 
implementing NextGen, which is the fourth element in ALPA's policy plan 
for a stable U.S. airline system.
    As new technologies emerge, the pace of change in our industry 
highlights our outmoded aviation rulemaking process.
    The current process is slow and cumbersome, and it attempts to 
regulate the safety of an industry that is becoming increasingly agile. 
When a risk is identified and a solution created, regulations can 
literally be years in the making.
    The result is a patchwork of outdated rules that are supplemented 
by government recommendations, manufacturers' bulletins, and industry 
best practices, which are, of course, not mandatory or enforceable if 
an airline management chooses not to comply to keep a low-cost 
advantage over those that do.
    I fully support the FAA's current charter of a new Aviation 
Rulemaking Committee to address the qualifications and training for 
second-in-command pilots. I have appointed two ALPA members to 
participate on the ARC, and I hope that my concerns regarding 
regulatory delays are not borne out in this critical safety matter.
    Finally, the fifth point. Our country needs to establish and 
maintain a U.S. international aviation policy that provides an 
effective balance among U.S. economic, security, airlines', and, again, 
workers' interests.
    ALPA stands in solid support of the current U.S. foreign ownership 
and control rules. We urge their full enforcement. These rules are 
rooted in basic national security considerations, especially the need 
to ensure that U.S. aircraft are available in times of national 
emergency.
    The United States needs to ensure that our carriers are able to 
continue to survive and grow in the international arena. ALPA is 
offering suggestions to the Future of Aviation Advisory Committee that 
we believe will help achieve this objective.
    As I present ALPA's five-point plan for a safe and stable airline 
industry, I do feel optimistic because the U.S. and global economies 
are showing signs of growth and recovery. While issues outside of the 
industry still loom as potential threats, one thing is clear: the 
health of our industry corresponds and contributes to the health of our 
economy. We must do all we can together to foster it with federal 
initiatives that protect and provide for the health of the airline 
industry.
    Another reason for optimism for me is the current Administration. 
We are now working with a U.S. government that engages union and 
industry leaders when searching for solutions.
    The Obama Administration has set a new tone of working with ALPA on 
the safety, security, and labor relations issues that matter most to 
our passengers and to our profession.
    In a related area of government policy, negotiating and enforcing 
contracts under the Railway Labor Act only works when both bargaining 
parties are treated fairly and equally. When the National Mediation 
Board creates uncertainty about the steps it may take in mediation, 
both parties are motivated to bargain earnestly to reach a final 
agreement. The NMB has shown that it means business in efficiently 
moving toward closing current negotiations. Bargaining parties that 
fail to act responsibly can expect consequences.
    This change has produced results--in the form of new working 
agreements--over the past year.
    ALPA pilots at Alaska and Hawaiian Airlines have recently approved 
new, positive contracts that have rewarded our members, produced 
profitable companies, and begun to stabilize labor-management 
relations.
    Both of these management groups are to be recognized for their 
willingness to invest in their employees. I have given my commitment to 
help them succeed in this difficult business.
    Unfortunately, one ALPA pilot group faced a management that tried a 
different approach. The management at Spirit Airlines refused to 
acknowledge the enormous contribution its pilots made to the company's 
survival in hard times and to its prosperity during recent years.
    After four years of fruitless contract talks, the National 
Mediation Board released both pilots and management from mediation on 
May 12. The release triggered a 30-day cooling-off period that expired 
at 12:01 a.m. on June 12. After two deadline extensions and a full-out 
effort failed to reach an agreement, Spirit pilots withdrew their 
services.
    Following five days of trying to operate an airline without pilots, 
Spirit management reached a tentative agreement with ALPA that includes 
improvements in pay, benefits, and work rules that reflect the pilots' 
contributions to the company's success. Should the Spirit pilots ratify 
this tentative agreement, and if Spirit management demonstrates its 
willingness to now move forward with a consensual relationship with 
their ALPA pilots, they, too, will have my commitment to assist in 
making their company a success.
    I hope that these three examples illustrate my point: those 
managements that work with ALPA stand a far better chance of succeeding 
than those that don't.
    With nearly half of ALPA's 38 pilot groups currently in or 
approaching contract negotiations, I hope that airline managements 
understand how important it is to find ways to reach agreement. Pilots 
at Trans States, AirTran, Pinnacle, United, and Continental are 
entering critical phases of negotiations.
    I'm optimistic that outcomes at these companies can mirror the 
recent positive results that I just mentioned.
    This tenet is also true for the consolidation and transactions both 
real and forecast at several airlines. The pilots at Colgan, Compass, 
American Eagle, Pinnacle, Mesaba, and Trans States are their companies' 
most valuable and vested assets.
    In these and any future transactions, our involvement every step of 
the way is essential for the long-term success and, I daresay, survival 
of the airline.
    On another note regarding the Obama Administration, ALPA applauds 
Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood for establishing the advisory 
committee and for selecting ALPA's director of economic and financial 
analysis, Ana McAhron-Schulz, to serve among its members. The Committee 
and its work are important acknowledgment that this industry and our 
workers cannot be overlooked or underrated as a cornerstone in the 
global economy.
    Our airline industry is undergoing a critical transformation right 
now. The decisions we make in taking on the challenges we face today 
will determine the opportunities we have for tomorrow.
    The promise of new national policies and collective bargaining 
agreements that will enhance safety as well as pilots' professional 
lives is encouraging. These improvements will make a difference for 
pilots flying the line now, and they will help restore our profession 
as we seek to attract qualified candidates to become the airline pilots 
of the future.
    At ALPA, we are hopeful about an improving economic outlook, a 
government that is willing to listen to labor's views, and managements 
that are committed to understanding and working with organized labor. 
Together with the five-point foundation I laid out, these developments 
will foster a safe and stable industry.
    Whether you experience it from aboard an international long-haul 
flight passing 35,000 feet overhead on your way to Europe or on the 
river approach to National, this city, and indeed each of us in this 
room, has a tremendous capacity to contribute to a safe and stable 
airline industry, but we must also resolve to ensure that the needs of 
all stakeholders are recognized.
    I hope that all of you will join me in a renewed commitment to 
strengthen our industry in every area--safety, security, and labor 
relations. Our passengers, cargo shippers, employees, shareholders, and 
economy depend upon it.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to be here today.

    Mr. Nehls. For all my colleagues here today, I need to 
clarify one thing. The aviation industry--and we know it--is 
the safest in history, in aviation history today. And I think 
it is the remarkable work done by the FAA, as well as the 
airline carriers, but understand this: Regional carriers 
support raising the age from 65 to 67.
    Mr. Ambrosi, a part 125 carrier can haul 20 passengers. A 
part 135 carrier can haul 30 passengers. And some of these 
aircraft operated by the 125s and the 135 carriers can be as 
large as a 737, a 747, hell, even a 787. Is that correct?
    Mr. Ambrosi. That is my understanding.
    Mr. Nehls. Yes, that is correct.
    Do you believe the 125 and 135 carriers are operating 
safely, yes or no?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Sir, I don't represent those airlines.
    Mr. Nehls. Folks, these carriers can hire pilots to fly 
past the age--up to 70 years old.
    Do you think it is fair--and nobody in this room--do you 
think it is fair that the millionaires and the billionaires in 
this country are allowed to fly NetJets? And all these big 
private airlines, they got NetJets. They are flying, having 
their good time on their private jets, right? And they get the 
most experienced pilots to fly while average Americans don't.
    NetJets and them, they are stealing these pilots from the 
part 121s. They are stealing their pilots at the age of 65, 
because you can't fly anymore for the part 121. You can't fly 
for United and American once you turn 65. NetJets and all these 
private carriers, they just love it, because they are just 
taking them. They got a guy with 25,000 hours in the cockpit. 
They love it.
    A sports team, folks, a sports team can fly a part 125 and 
a 135. Like the basketball team. Boston may have to fly to 
Atlanta, the basketball team. Cleveland is going to fly to New 
York. The playoffs are going on. These teams are worth billions 
of dollars, and yet they are confident that the guy in the 
cockpit could be up to 70 years old, even higher. The wealthy 
elites out of Hollywood flying these private jets, they can 
have a guy get in that cockpit and he can be 70 years old, but 
yet we are telling the major airliners, when you turn 65 you 
are out of here.
    Are part 125 and 135 pilots less safe than the part 121 
pilots, Mr. Ambrosi, yes or no?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Sir----
    Mr. Nehls [interrupting]. Answer yes or no. Are they safer 
than--are they less safe than the 121 pilots and do you have 
data that would support it, yes or no?
    Mr. Ambrosi. They operate in a different world.
    Mr. Nehls. Folks, this is my point: Large airliners are 
forced to retire at the age of 65 because of an arbitrary rule 
passed by Congress. The pilot age was put into place in 1959. 
In 2007, they overwhelmingly raised the age limit to 65.
    I tell you what. I ask the committee to support my bill. 
Let experienced pilots fly, raising the age from 65 to 67. I 
highlighted the health and physical fitness requirements. They 
are the same. Let's show support for the regional airliners by 
raising the age 65 to 67. The regional airliners are asking for 
our help, and it is the right thing to do.
    Ms. Black, I will fight like hell to get this commonsense 
approach and increase the age 65 to 67 in the FAA 
reauthorization.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Yakym. Thank you, Mr. Nehls.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Johnson for 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for 
holding this hearing, you and the ranking member. And I want to 
thank the witnesses for appearing today and for your testimony.
    Since the Wright brothers first took flight on December 17 
of 1903, the aviation industry has soared to heights that the 
Wright brothers could not have imagined.
    Aviation today is an essential component of America's 
global leadership, and Congress must stay diligent in ensuring 
that the aviation industry continues to set the gold standard 
for the world, thus ensuring continued economic growth in 
trade, business, and tourism.
    And it is critical to understand that the changing American 
demographic requires that all sectors of the aviation industry 
reflect the diversity that will continue to emerge, because 
without pipelines of opportunity aimed at currently 
underrepresented demographics, the shortage of workers in the 
aviation industry overall will be exacerbated.
    Captain Ambrosi, last month I introduced the Minorities in 
Aviation Education Act which, if enacted, would take a critical 
step towards diversifying and growing the aviation industry 
workforce by creating a grant program geared towards 
strengthening the pipeline for the entry of more women, people 
of color, and individuals living in rural areas into the 
aviation industry.
    One of the largest vocational flight schools estimates that 
it costs $96,995 to become a pilot for those with no previous 
flight experience. When you consider that people of color, 
women, and those living outside of urban areas are historically 
less wealthy, which means that they lack the resources 
necessary to become pilots, licensed pilots, when you consider 
that fact, it is no--there are some pieces in the puzzle that 
become clear.
    Can you elaborate on the financial and other challenges 
that many individuals, primarily minorities, face when trying 
to enter the aviation industry as pilots?
    And also, some airlines won't consider hiring a pilot who 
is not a college graduate. Is it your opinion that a college 
degree is a reasonable requirement for those seeking to become 
a commercial airline pilot?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Thank you, sir, for the question. First and 
foremost, I agree. Flight training has gotten so expensive, I 
don't think I would be here today if I was going through the 
process today. And so, I can completely understand how tough it 
is for folks of a different demographic.
    It is essential that we support, provide student loans for 
flight training programs, establish grants and support building 
out aviation programs at Historically Black Colleges and 
Universities and other areas where minorities can be served, 
increase funding for the Federal development workforce grants, 
and make sure that we are out there outreaching to women in 
aviation and we are doing--it is an all-of-the-above approach. 
It is not just one or the other. We should be doing all of the 
above.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. And what about the requirement for 
a college degree?
    Mr. Ambrosi. I apologize. So, it is my understanding that 
most of the airlines have subsequently removed that. At a time 
when there was just an absolute surplus of pilots, both in the 
civilian ranks and coming out of the military, it was very hard 
to get hired at the airlines when I was going through the 
process 25 years ago. It was a thing they added to it just to 
say, hey, OK, one more item to add to the list of narrowing 
pilots down. But I believe that most of the U.S. airlines have 
removed that requirement, sir.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you.
    Dr. DeVivo, your written testimony stated that 80 percent 
of your students are from underrepresented backgrounds, and 
most are first-generation Americans and first-generation 
college students. Also, 21 percent of your most recent incoming 
class are women. You also stated that 72 percent of your 
students worry about having enough money to pay for school, and 
20 percent ran out of money six or more times in the past year.
    Can you speak further about the possible solutions that 
Congress can consider in the upcoming FAA reauthorization?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes. Thank you very much for that question. And 
they are an awesome population. Queens is the most diverse 
county in the country, and we reflect all the amazing 
immigrants who have come to this country. And that has been 
true for all of our 90-year history.
    As I put in my testimony, there are several Federal grant 
programs. So, doubling Pell is key to this. And that is true 
for every student I serve, but many students across this 
country who could use greater support. These are the neediest 
students that are served by Pell.
    I am also fortunate to be from a State that is quite 
generous in terms of its State support. So, that is helpful. 
The State support is often key to helping students get through 
the program of their choice.
    And then there are other ways. The Flight Education Access 
Act will specifically help flight students. Oftentimes, our 
students don't qualify for the loans, like parent PLUS loans, 
which offer much better interest rates, because either their 
parents don't have a credit background or their credit scores 
are not good enough to get a loan. So, this would actually help 
provide subsidized and unsubsidized loan rates at interest 
rates that are much better. And then they could qualify for 
income repayment, which would be more affordable as well.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your 
indulgence. I yield back.
    Mr. Molinaro [presiding]. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. Not a 
problem. Thank you, Mr. Johnson.
    I would now like to recognize Mr. Stauber for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Stauber. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    And to all the witnesses, thanks for your testimony. And we 
appreciate being able to say that flying the skies is the 
safest form of transportation. I have the privilege of doing it 
at least twice a week.
    Mr. Ambrosi, can you speak a little more about some of the 
accessibility issues to careers in aviation that you have 
observed?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes. Like I said previously, sir, the cost has 
gotten to a point where I don't think I could be in this 
position today. So, we need to address that, and we need to 
address bringing more people into this great profession.
    Being an airline pilot today, now that we are in a post-
pandemic environment, and we are bringing up pay and working 
conditions to where they should be, this is a great time to be 
an airline pilot, and we need to make sure that access is out 
there for everybody.
    So, like I said, Federal student loans, grants. Let's make 
sure that we get out there and get the resources to 
Historically Black Colleges and Universities and minority-
serving institutions, so that they can get the resources they 
need to encourage our next generation of pilots, mechanics, 
flight attendants, everybody. Get involved in this great 
profession.
    Mr. Stauber. And a followup: Would allowing the FAA-
certified commercial pilot and aircraft maintenance technician 
schools to qualify as an expense for existing 529 plans lower 
this barrier?
    Mr. Ambrosi. I think that is a spectacular idea. We would 
support that 100 percent.
    Mr. Stauber. I am grateful to Congressman Collins for 
introducing the Aviation Workforce Development Act to help make 
aviation education more accessible. And as a cosponsor, I look 
forward to championing the bill across the finish line during 
the FAA reauthorization.
    Dr. DeVivo, in your testimony, you indicate that 
legislation, like the National Center for the Advancement of 
Aviation Act, could help create greater awareness of the 
aviation sector, especially by young people. Mr. Carson and I 
plan to reintroduce the bill next week.
    Could you elaborate on how the NCAA could help with youth 
engagement?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes, absolutely. So, one of the key ways that 
we found as part of the Youth Task Force was there is no one 
place to get good information about how to get to a career in 
the industry.
    So, let's say you go to Oshkosh and you get an EAA free 
Eagle Flight, right? And then what do you do? If there were 
resources online that maybe connects you to your local Civil 
Air Patrol chapter or Women in Aviation chapter, and then that 
leads to a Scouting badge, and then you take a certain set of 
courses in high school and that leads you to collegiate and 
technical training programs.
    It can be very mysterious. And the National Center would 
actually help in terms of a website that would create day in 
the life, videos about all the different careers, what the 
pathway looks like, what the pay looks like. How do you get 
there? How do you finance it? It would take all the mystery out 
of it for families.
    Mr. Stauber. I agree with you. I think that the more we can 
let the public and our youth know about the aviation careers 
and how awesome they can be and how exceptional they are, I 
think we can help with that workforce issue. And I know that 
this committee, in a bipartisan fashion, as Mr. Johnson stated 
earlier, we want to help you with that, and we are committed to 
doing that.
    I appreciate the opportunity to work with my colleagues to 
improve the workforce pipeline and inspire more people to work 
in the aviation industry during the FAA reauthorization. But 
the truth of the matter is, we must stop disincentivizing a 
whole generation of able-bodied Americans from working. Now, 
nearly every industry is suffering from workforce shortage. We 
need to return to a society that values the dignity of work and 
rewards effort. Only then will we see the real changes we all 
desire.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Molinaro. Thank you, Mr. Stauber.
    And now for 5 minutes, Mr. Garcia.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you, Chairman. And thank you 
to all the witnesses this morning.
    My first question is to Captain Ambrosi. As you stated in 
your testimony, the number of ATP certificates issued each year 
between 2017 and 2022 increased by more than 100 percent, which 
is great. But the flight schools across the country are running 
at maximum capacity.
    First officers complete initial training and then have to 
wait for a check airman to perform their initial operating 
experience. Once online, the first officers are underutilized 
due to the imbalance in captains, first officers, and check 
airmen. These problems, in addition to the mass early 
retirement during the COVID-19 pandemic, contributed to the 
bottleneck in the training pipeline that hinders a carrier's 
ability to effectively utilize pilots.
    So, my question is: In your opinion, what can Congress do 
to help enhance your training capacity and to eliminate the 
bottlenecks in the training pipeline?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Well, sir, thank you for the question. The 
system is working. The pandemic--to the retirement piece, many 
airlines did early-out retirement packages, because they didn't 
know that three rounds of Payroll Support Program. And thank 
you very much to the Congress for supporting the aviation 
workforce. Many pilots retired.
    We are catching up on that wave, because those retirements 
are--so, they were basically borrowing from the future and 
those retirements are down. So, the retirements over the next 2 
and 3 years will be significantly less than they would have 
been. So, that is going to help us.
    The training backlog, it takes a long time to train a pilot 
at an airline, and that is a good thing, because of the safety 
record we have. So, we are getting caught up. All those people 
that were bumped down are now training back the other 
direction, and the airlines will be in a far better place than 
they were.
    As far as at the regionals with the captains leaving and 
they have first officers, it is reported that some of the 
regionals, the better paying and working condition airlines, 
they have classes full into the next year. So, the captains are 
leaving. Captains used to stay in place largely and wait for a 
major partner and go to a legacy partner. The pay and working 
conditions have come up at the middle airlines so well that now 
these pilots are also jumping to those airlines and then maybe 
jumping again. So, it is creating--though some of the numbers 
are inflated, because they are making two stops on their way to 
an airline.
    So, again, we are catching up on that. The regionals have 
stepped up their pay and benefits to try to keep some of those 
pilots there. And, again, that training backlog is resolving 
itself.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. And what can Congress do, if 
anything?
    Mr. Ambrosi. It is going to resolve itself. I don't think 
any action is required, sir, other than, like we talked about 
on getting more people of diverse backgrounds interested in 
aviation. The pipeline is full. Let's make that pipeline more 
diverse and have every pilot, have every demographic 
represented.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. OK. Thank you, sir.
    And, Ms. Black, how are your member carriers planning to 
right-size staffing to ensure the effective utilization of the 
pilots that you have or hire?
    Ms. Black. I couldn't hear one part of your question. 
Right-size what? Can you repeat that, please?
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. To right-size staffing to ensure 
the effective utilization of the pilots that you have or that 
you will be hiring in the near future.
    Ms. Black. OK. I want to speak to the broader situation 
that is happening. I agree that we do have a pronounced 
shortage of captains. But to put that in a proper perspective, 
we have a shortage of all pilots. But first officers can't fly 
without captains, and during the pandemic, they flew a lot 
less.
    Actually, the daisy train of upgrades and downgrades that 
we see at the major airlines are not happening at the 
regionals, but we did lose a lot of our captains and captain-
ready first officers. The one thing that will slow that down 
right now is raising the age for retiring pilots so that it 
slows attrition from the majors.
    We did see more jumping around earlier after the pandemic. 
That has stabilized somewhat, going to the low-cost carriers, 
then to the mainlines. Pay and benefits have improved across 
the board.
    But regional airlines are and will be the career entry 
portal for the industry. That is not new. Larger airlines can 
offer a bigger airplane with greater revenue capacity and more 
advancement to bigger and bigger aircraft, just like that 
happens at the majors. We won't stop that attrition, but we 
need to better manage it. And the retirement age at 65, moving 
that to 67 gives us about 8,000 more pilots that will stabilize 
some of that attrition in the next 2 years.
    Mr. Garcia of Illinois. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, 
I yield back.
    Mr. Molinaro. Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
    And for 5 minutes, I recognize Chairman Graves.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I 
appreciate it.
    Ms. Krause, thank you for being back. I think if you 
testify one more time, you get a free cup of coffee. I 
appreciate you being here and always appreciate the input you 
provide to the committee.
    Look, I am not a math whiz, but I am looking at numbers, 
and I am looking at some of the data that you have produced. 
And so, if I am understanding all this correctly, that FAA is 
predicting that the number of pilots holding an ATP, an airline 
transport pilot certificate, to increase by about 30,000 over 
the next 20 years, which is a 16-percent increase, right?
    So, then, over the same period, they have projected that 
passenger enplanements are forecast to grow an average of 4.9 
percent a year, or a 98-percent increase over the same period 
of time. U.S. mainline carrier fleet is forecast to grow from 
3,132 to 5,532, a growth of 3.8 percent per year, which 
converts to a 76-percent increase.
    All right. So, I am going to say it again. I am not a math 
whiz, but I am looking at a 98-percent increase in passenger 
enplanements, a 76-percent increase in airplanes. Yet, a 16-
percent increase in ATPs, or pilots.
    Am I missing anything or do we have a pretty significant 
disconnect?
    Ms. Krause. Yes. Some of the difference is a little bit in 
how the forecasts are done. And also, when we have looked at 
FAA's activity forecast, like the enplanement ones that you 
were mentioning, they have consistently been overestimated, so, 
overestimating greater demand, because they are unconstrained 
in that they don't take into consideration things like, is this 
growth impacted at all by things like airport capacity.
    And so, there is some difference there as well as the pilot 
supply numbers then are projecting off of historical and other 
data. So, that explains it a bit in terms of the differences.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. But safe to say that, even if you 
were to include margins of error and others, that we have got a 
problem moving forward?
    Ms. Krause. I mean, I think this industry and the growth of 
this industry is really dependent on the growth of the 
workforce. So, I think that is something that is important to 
focus on.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. So then, when you add in the fact 
that we are looking at advanced aviation systems, you have got 
advanced urban mobility, even remote piloted vehicles, that 
doesn't help, right? I mean, that just further exacerbates the 
challenges that we are looking at moving forward.
    Ms. Krause. That is exactly what we heard when we talk to 
folks and a range of stakeholders about advanced air mobility 
and some of the challenges that they face, which is some of 
these same workforce challenges that the traditional aerospace 
sector faces. They will also face that, in addition to new 
skills that these workers will need.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. Great. Thank you.
    Ms. DeVivo, in your testimony, you indicated that the 
single largest hurdle to becoming a pilot is the resources. And 
I want to thank Mr. Collins jumping in as a freshman and 
working on solutions to this issue. He has legislation to help 
address this, and I certainly appreciate him jumping right in 
in the first few weeks and coming up with solutions.
    But how would expanding the use of simulator technologies 
potentially affect the financial challenges? And I am curious 
if you could just talk on the safety side as well, which is 
obviously really critical. Could you respond to that, please?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes, absolutely. So, part of the reason why the 
task force recommended this is because simulator time is a lot 
less expensive than flight time. And if you are not flying 
consistently--I am talking three times a week--it will cost you 
much more, because you have to repeat the last thing because 
you are just not--well, you know, you are working on your--this 
idea of being able to consistently fly is really important.
    If you were to expand the number of simulator hours that 
were available, then students could be practicing at a much 
cheaper rate, which makes that flight-hour in the plane that 
much more efficient.
    So, we were not trying to suggest a change at all in the 
number of hours to achieve certification, just the efficiency 
of getting to that certification and not having to require so 
many hours in the plane.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. Thank you.
    Ms. Black, very quickly: Do you think that your member 
companies would--if we were to raise the simulator hours, do 
you think that you could actually improve safety? Do your 
member companies believe you could actually improve safety?
    Ms. Black. Yes. Thank you for the question. We don't think 
so; we know so. It comes down to how that time is spent. When 
we talk about having more or less, it is really important that 
we ask, more of what?
    And when we are allowing our pilots to qualify primarily 
through hours-based pathways, we don't know what they are 
doing, but what we can see that they are doing is flying in 
light aircraft in fair weather. We know exactly what they are 
doing in a simulated program, and so, that increases the level 
of safety substantially.
    Mr. Graves of Louisiana. Thank you, Ms. Black.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Molinaro. Thank you, Mr. Graves.
    And now, for 5 minutes, I recognize Ms. Scholten.
    Ms. Scholten. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.
    And thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today. 
Workforce development in the aviation and aerospace industries 
is a key priority of mine in this year's FAA reauthorization. I 
appreciate the opportunity to hear from all of you about the 
challenges and also the opportunities in this sector.
    Gerald R. Ford International Airport, one of the major 
airports in my district, has a unique arrangement with the West 
Michigan Aviation Academy, a school that is located right on 
the grounds of the airport and focuses specifically on creating 
graduates who can go on to work in this field. It is really 
remarkable. We invite all of you to come out and visit it 
sometime. We are so proud of it.
    Getting more youth in the industry will be critical to 
maintaining our competitiveness in the years to come, as we 
have talked about. We talked about changing some of the culture 
around education and training here.
    I recently introduced a bill that changes the way the 
census tracks higher education from not only recognizing 2- and 
4-year college degrees but certificate and training programs 
like this one.
    My first question is for Dr. DeVivo. Can you please 
elaborate on your experience as chair of the Youth Access to 
American Jobs in Aviation Task Force? And what recommendations 
specifically do you have for Congress to take immediate action 
for implementation and guiding this through the implementation 
process?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes. So, it was an awesome 2 years working with 
21 members from trade associations, industry, educators, 
nonprofits, all doing really good work. And we knew we were not 
going to invent the next greatest program. It had already been 
invented. The idea was how could we scale it.
    And so, what we tried to do was identify the major barriers 
and then provide solutions. So, the two biggest barriers are 
awareness and finances, especially to underresourced and 
underrepresented communities. And if they knew about the 
opportunities, which are transformational--I can attest to that 
at my institution--that more people would pursue it, right? But 
because they don't have an uncle, brother, somebody in their 
family in the industry, they don't know about it, right?
    So, we tried to give both very actionable, put more 
resources in libraries, all the way to: Could we have a 
national aviation scholarship program? I think the areas that 
FAA reauthorization could really help with was: The 
conversation can't end with our task force or the women's 
board, which I hope you are familiar with as well.
    This idea that we need to keep the conversation going, but 
not just at the national level, but also to do it at the 
regional level as well. So, we have proposed: use the nine 
regions of the FAA, use the AVSED, the Aviation and Space 
Education office. They have representatives in each district. 
Put together industry, higher ed, training programs, 
nonprofits. Let's at least start to share resources, share 
students, and Boys and Girls Club, Scouting. Get all of us in 
the room talking about how we serve our regions.
    Then have whoever, have a representative go to a National 
Advisory Council that would look at metrics of success and make 
sure that that information was always being fed back to the 
FAA.
    Around finances, it is the Flight Education Access Act. It 
is about doubling Pell. Those kind of things that will really 
help change the trajectory for underresourced and 
underrepresented communities.
    Ms. Scholten. Yes. Thank you. That was very insightful and 
thorough. I appreciate it.
    I have a followup question for Captain Ambrosi. Earlier, we 
were talking about multiple ways to continue to expand our 
workforce. And I wanted to ask you, do you think it is wise to 
raise the retirement age to 67?
    Mr. Ambrosi. So, thank you for the question. The European 
regulators have studied this, and they have recommended against 
it. So, the Europeans have studied the decline with age and are 
against it.
    The current limit in ICAO internationally is 65. The 
difference last time when we were at 60 going to 65, ICAO was 
65. So, going to 65 instantly got you 5 more years of airline 
pilots. In today's world, that is not the same, because going 
to 67 will result in every pilot that flies internationally 
outside the U.S. will have to retrain on domestic-only 
equipment. The airlines will have to build schedules that 
result in those pilots only flying domestically.
    This is a major cost burden. Not only will it do that for 
the airlines and create more headache for them, for pilots who 
choose to stay, you will also have the issue of taking training 
slots in a much-needed training backlog for those pilots to 
train going down and then leave 2 years later, which is a slot 
that someone that could do the next several years for that 
company in that position.
    Ms. Scholten. Thank you.
    Mr. Molinaro. Thank you, Ms. Scholten. I appreciate that.
    I now would like to just recognize myself for 5 minutes. 
And thank you all for testifying today.
    I know that we have covered these topics ad nauseam this 
afternoon. Is it afternoon yet? Today. I have made addressing 
the aviation industry workforce issues and overall workforce 
shortage, I have made the Workforce Development Grants a 
principal priority for me as we consider FAA reauthorization 
and, of course, in an effort to seek increased funding.
    I would like to start with you, Dr. DeVivo. And I know that 
you kind of have spoken to this several times already, but just 
to reemphasize. I know that you generally agree with the desire 
to increase funding and the Workforce Development Grants. Could 
you just speak a little bit more as to the benefit to advancing 
the workforce development and addressing the shortage within 
that pipeline?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes, absolutely. And I will say that my 
institution was fortunate to get one of those grants on the 
pilot side, and we are actually doing uncrewed aerial systems 
work, so, remote pilot work, which is really exciting.
    The issue is, is that $10 million is clearly not enough for 
the whole country, right? And we would really love to see that 
funded at $50 million. At the same time, please help give the 
FAA the operational funding to oversee the implementation of 
those grants.
    I think it was a bit of a challenge. And if we were to move 
from $10 million to $50 million, I think they would need some 
more operational help.
    Mr. Molinaro. In my previous life as a local elected 
official, we built an experiential hangar and training program 
in partnership with the community college. The grant became 
very, very critical. We know the value, and we know the 
benefit.
    I represent a portion of the State of New York with smaller 
regional airports, in particular Ithaca and Binghamton, New 
York, where, sadly, we have seen, certainly because of 
workforce issues and others, a decline in both capacity and who 
takes advantage of or makes use of those particular airports.
    In my short time on the subcommittee, I have become a bit 
more interested and focused on advanced air mobility, AAM, with 
the understanding that the technology itself and the 
advancement of AAM could provide greater access to those 
regional airports and perhaps, in fact, revitalize them and 
create greater connectivity with larger airports.
    Ms. Krause, in your testimony, you talk a little bit 
certainly about your involvement with industry stakeholders in 
the AAM space and specifically future constraints to expansion. 
Could you just touch on those constraints and perhaps how 
Congress might confront those within the FAA reauthorization?
    Ms. Krause. Yes. I mean, we heard a number of challenges 
when it comes to the development of AAM industry. First and 
foremost is getting aircraft certified. So, that is something 
that the FAA has been working on. That will help sort out some 
of the other challenges that certainly are faced, including 
workforce. Then you have a better sense of the type of skills 
that you may need for those workforce.
    Other issues that we have heard when we have done this work 
is just developing, having the markets there to support it and 
the, kind of, marketability of the technology. So, yes, there 
are a number of things that are stalled, because it is still 
developing that, kind of, start with the certification of the 
aircraft.
    Mr. Molinaro. Thank you for that. I just emphasize, AAM 
provides, I think, an opportunity to bring back to life some of 
these regional airports that, frankly, can provide really good 
connectivity.
    Captain Ambrosi, as I came in you were talking a little bit 
about steps that we could take certainly to expand access and 
enhance access to pilot education courses, et cetera. Could you 
reemphasize this concept of making use and qualifying expenses 
under the 529 savings plans, and perhaps that as a tool might 
break down some financial barriers? And, again, I recognize 
that we have touched on some of this already.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. As I 
said previously, I think it is an all-of-the-above approach. 
So, I think the 529 is a great idea. I think Federal student 
loans for flight training. Other professions have access to 
these loans. I don't know why our profession is any different. 
So, we should certainly open the doors.
    As I said, funding for Historically Black Colleges and 
Universities, minority-serving institutions, an all-of-the-
above type approach. This is a great--I say it all the time, 
but this is such a great profession. Let's figure out how to 
open the doors for everybody. The pipeline is full. We don't 
have a problem attracting people, but we need to attract 
everybody. This needs to be an all-of-the-above approach.
    Mr. Molinaro. I appreciate that. And I think we generally 
all agree. This is an area and a space that, quite frankly, if 
we get this right, can really unlock employment opportunities 
with good-paying, solid jobs, long-term investment. And I just 
hope that we make it a priority in reauthorization and that we 
focus on breaking into communities that often don't have access 
to what will be tremendous work opportunities.
    And, with that, my time is expired, and I would like to 
recognize Mr. Allred for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Allred. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I also have a small aviation industry in my area. I 
represent Dallas, where, of course, Southwest and American 
Airlines are headquartered, and we have major aviation 
employers, and it is critically important for us.
    And as we talk about dealing with the pipeline issues and 
getting more folks into the pipeline, as has been discussed 
today and I think as you just discussed, Captain, it seems to 
me the best way for us to do that is to throw open the doors 
and also to increase the diversity of our pipelines, 
particularly for our pilots.
    To me, this is something that I have made a focus of in my 
time in Congress to try and introduce some of our talented 
youngsters to this pathway. It also, of course, will help us 
bring more people into the profession, but also open new 
avenues.
    And, Dr. DeVivo, we have heard a lot about how your 
students and other prospective pilots are having trouble paying 
for school and run out of funds and can't qualify for loans. I 
am working on legislation right now to increase the caps on 
student loans for folks attending flight school.
    I wonder if you could discuss how that would help to 
increase the diversity of the students and the folks seeking to 
get into this profession.
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for the question.
    So many of our families can't qualify for a parent PLUS 
loan, because they either don't have the credit history or they 
don't have the credit score to qualify, which means they have 
to go to the alternative loan market, where the interest rate 
is quite high.
    I have a female pilot, a Black female pilot, graduated with 
$90,000 in alternative loan debt at a percentage rate of 18 
percent. That makes it hard to eat while you are trying to get 
your hours, right? So, this idea of having the loans for 
subsidized or unsubsidized raised means that they would have a 
much more reasonable interest rate, but also they would qualify 
for income-based repayment, so, it would be affordable as they 
make their way to an awesome career.
    Mr. Allred. Absolutely. That is very important to note.
    And, Captain Ambrosi, I know workforce diversity is an area 
where the Air Line Pilots Association has been very engaged, 
and I want to thank you for that. And just wanted to know if 
you could add anything to what you just said in response to the 
last question around throwing open the doors, particularly 
access to these loans, and how you would see that benefiting in 
terms of creating a more diverse pipeline for pilots.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Absolutely. Look, at the Air Line Pilots 
Association, we pride ourselves on outreach. And it is not just 
about the people that are members now but the future 
generation, embracing the next generation.
    We do over 1,000 visits a year to everybody from middle 
schools to universities. We put ACE Clubs at universities to 
try to increase the outreach to folks from a more diverse 
background. And, again, it is an all-of-the-above type of 
approach. We get out there, get the message out there. That is 
part of it, is getting that message out there that, yes, you 
can become an airline pilot. You can become a mechanic. You can 
become anything that you want to become. So, we pride ourselves 
on getting out there and delivering that message.
    And it does help that now the entry-level pays of this job 
are getting better to where you can fund some of these student 
loans. Back when I came through, the pay was so miserable that 
a student loan was a burden that was very difficult. So, 
fortunately, we have negotiated better pay and working 
conditions at most airlines. And the student loan process is 
essential. So, whatever we can do to help at ALPA.
    Mr. Allred. So, specifically, you would support increasing 
the caps on student loans?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Absolutely.
    Mr. Allred. Yes. That is great. Thank you, sir.
    My last minute here, President Malarkey Black, as you know, 
Congress took action in 2018 in the FAA reauthorization to 
create section 625. I know we have had a lot of discussion 
about that today, to allow Government and industry stakeholders 
to work together to encourage more Americans to pursue good-
paying careers in aviation.
    Beyond reauthorizing and increasing the amount of money in 
the program, are there other improvements you think we should 
make to it?
    Ms. Black. Yes. Thank you for the question. I think we are 
doing a great job on outreach. And I think the workforce 
development, the grants have been very, very powerful in 
curriculum development, in teacher development, and that's 
strengthening us. But we could go even further and allow that 
to help people, use it as another tool to pay for education and 
training, both for pilots and mechanics.
    And I also want to add a comment. We have talked a whole 
lot about the degree pathway, which remains really important, 
but it is also important to support students that are coming 
through certificate programs, part 141, highly structured 
training programs.
    There aren't enough of those today. Right now, two-thirds 
of the pilots qualify through hours-based qualification. That 
is another way where we can inject more areas of support but 
also higher structure for the pilots that are coming in.
    Mr. Allred. That is great. Thank you so much. Mr. Chairman, 
I will yield back.
    Mr. Burchett [presiding]. Thank you, sir. I now recognize 
myself, which I think is kind of weird to say. I have always 
thought that, but I guess I am doing it.
    And I appreciate my friends' talk about diversity. My mama 
actually flew an airplane during the Second World War. And I am 
an unrepentant mama's boy. And I like the fact that there are 
three women up here at this time. And I had always thought that 
if it was now, mama would be flying me up here to DC, but at 
the time that was just--after the war, it just probably wasn't 
the coolest thing, although I carry around a picture of her in 
her airplane, and it is very cool to me. And after she passed, 
she was actually put into Knoxville College's Hall of Fame. 
That is a Historically Black College there in Knoxville where 
she taught. So, very proud of my mama.
    Anyway, Captain Ambrosi, you stated that pilot training 
backlogs contributed to air travel disruptions last year. Can 
you explain this, and do you expect similar problems in the 
future?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Thank you for the question, sir. And I have a 
daughter who is 8, and I hope she gets into this profession as 
well. It is a great one.
    Mr. Burchett. I have a daughter who is 15, who rides 
horses. I wish she had taken up motorcycles. It is cheaper and 
a lot safer.
    Go right ahead.
    Mr. Ambrosi. If my daughter is watching, I am going to ask 
her to take up motorcycles and not horses, because I understand 
what you are going through.
    Mr. Burchett. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Look, let's make no mistake. Last summer, the 
airlines overscheduled. They had airplanes available. Because 
of the pandemic and the training backlog and the fact that they 
had displaced so many pilots, they had to be retrained. They 
had available airplanes. The passenger demand was there. They 
said, hey, let's go to the nth degree to try to get these 
people where they want to go, and they overscheduled.
    We are getting caught up. The big airlines have more pilots 
than they have ever had by thousands, thousands more than pre-
pandemic levels. So, can I----
    Mr. Burchett [interrupting]. You don't expect that to 
happen in the future, or is there a caveat, as we say?
    Mr. Ambrosi. If I had a crystal ball, I would buy a lottery 
ticket. But I would tell you that I think the ball is in their 
court. They have a lot more pilots, and they should be fine 
this summer, but the ball is in their court. If they decide to 
go, let's push it just that extra X percent to maximize 
revenue, then we could have a problem. But they are certainly 
in a better position this year than they were last summer.
    Mr. Burchett. I hate it when they push it when I am trying 
to get back to Knoxville.
    Ms. Black, GAO determined that the pilot supply grew from 
2017 to 2022, but the regional airlines are struggling to 
attract and retain pilots. What is being done to encourage the 
employees to stay with these regional airlines?
    Ms. Black. Thank you for the question. I want to speak 
first to the comment that the supply of pilots has increased 
from 2017 to 2022. We hear that sometimes. That talks about 
certifications and, in fact, they have increased. But what is 
being missed in that conversation is what happened and what may 
be contributing to that banner year that we are having. And we 
don't have to look too far back to see what that is. It was the 
pandemic.
    During that time, about 4,100 fewer pilots than we expected 
actually qualified. And so, they are catching up. They are 
still catching up. We haven't quite gotten back to where we 
should be. But once you adjust for that, we are below average.
    So, we are, beyond that, looking at about almost half of 
our workforce within the next 15 years will hit that hard stop 
at age 65. So, everything that we do now matters.
    What we are doing to try and retain our workforce is not 
just increasing pay and quality of life. And sometimes that 
means moving bases a little bit closer, hiring people in bases 
that may not be the most maximum efficiency, but it is what the 
pilots want. So, we are trying to meet that. Flow programs and 
other things like that.
    But they can only go so far. What we need to do is make it 
easier and equally safe to get into this industry and lower 
those access barriers that are keeping so many people who could 
come in and keep us connected out of the industry today.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you.
    Ms. Krause, is there any evidence that the Aviation 
Workforce Development Grant program will be successful?
    Ms. Krause. Sorry, sir, what was the question?
    Mr. Burchett. I said, is there any evidence the Aviation 
Workforce Development Grant program will be successful?
    Ms. Krause. At this time--so, the grant period is 18 
months. So, those folks that received grants should be 
reporting to FAA the outcomes and results of those grants. And 
so, we should know sometime this summer. Those will start 
coming in, to see what came of those funds from those grants.
    Mr. Burchett. OK. What industry-driven initiatives could be 
expanded or replicated to grow the workforce?
    Ms. Krause. I mean, there are a number of actions that, 
when we have looked at what folks are doing to respond to 
supply have been things like raising pay, both at the regional 
and the mainline carriers.
    It is really a shared responsibility and a partnership 
across industry, schools, Government. So, you see things like 
airlines creating flight schools to support training, as well 
as aviation maintenance workers, there are apprenticeship and 
other partnership programs between schools and industry to 
support the pipeline.
    Mr. Burchett. Thank you. And I have run over 17 seconds.
    At this point, I recognize my dear friend from Washington, 
DC, Ms. Norton.
    Ma'am.
    Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Dr. DeVivo, in your testimony, you highlighted the need for 
outreach to diverse communities to address workforce 
challenges. As you may know, Black Americans account for just 
6.2 percent of the aviation workforce and 2.6 percent of pilots 
and flight engineers.
    While the recruitment efforts for diverse candidates have 
increased in the past decade, you noted that diverse students 
may not be able to afford to pursue the secondary education 
necessary for these highly specialized jobs.
    Should additional types of financial aid be made available 
to help low-income students enter the aviation field?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes, absolutely. One of the great ways to do 
that is by doubling Pell.
    Ms. Norton. Ms. Krause, I have been told by pilots that one 
of the major barriers to pilot certification is a shortage of 
designated pilot examiners. Flight students who have completed 
the requisite education requirements still have to wait to 
display their knowledge in exams because there are not enough 
examiners to account for all the students.
    Does GAO have any statistics on recommendations related to 
designated pilot examiners and their impact on the current 
workforce challenges?
    Ms. Krause. We have certainly heard that as an issue, but 
we haven't looked at it specifically. We would be happy to work 
with your office to get some additional information.
    Ms. Norton. I would very much appreciate that.
    Mr. Thress, training costs are a major barrier in pilot 
recruitment. Could utilizing flight simulators in more 
educational institutions decrease costs for students?
    Mr. Thress. Yes. The cost to operate a simulator is usually 
significantly lower than operating an actual airplane. And 
simulators can also serve as a, what we call a rehearsal 
mechanism, so, that time in the actual airplane is more 
valuable.
    Ms. Norton. Well, we certainly need to get on that.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota [presiding]. The Chair would 
recognize Mr. Collins for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The cost of training for commercial pilots is substantial, 
and that is why I introduced H.R. 1818, the Aviation Workforce 
Development Act. This commonsense bill will make education 
costs of FAA-certified pilot and aircraft maintenance technical 
schools a qualified expense for 529 plans.
    And I want to thank Chairman Graves and Ranking Member 
Cohen for their co-leading and help in this effort with me and 
the bipartisan group of 30 Members and numerous stakeholders 
who have endorsed this legislation.
    Y'all, it is a simple bill. All we want to do is give 
aspiring aviators and aircraft mechanics the same tools to 
train for these vital careers as those seeking 4-year degrees.
    Captain, I am grateful for ALPA's support for this bill. 
And can you just specifically, can you tell the committee how 
this policy will contribute to a steady supply of commercial 
pilots?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Absolutely, sir. Thank you for your 
leadership.
    Anything that can lower the barrier for entry is a good 
thing. All-of-the-above approach. So, adding this to the suite 
of products or things that we are doing to try to lower those 
barriers for entry is a good thing.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. There are actually over 13 million 
people with 529 savings plans.
    Ms. Black, I am also grateful to have the support of the 
Regional Airline Association. The Aviation Workforce 
Development Act unites the aviation community, including 
industry, labor, education, and flight training associations.
    Can you tell us how H.R. 1818 will make pilot and mechanic 
training more accessible and, therefore, help the airlines meet 
the growing demand for air service?
    Ms. Black. I also thank you for your leadership on that and 
the other programs.
    It is so crucial that we are reaching out to more pilots, 
and I think that is one area where the industry and 
congressional stakeholders are successful.
    Where we are less successful is actually allowing people 
over the burden, and that often comes down to money. So, 
programs like you have offered that give grants and actually 
put money in hands of people who are either training or are 
getting trained are really critical.
    It is also important that we give people access to the best 
training and making sure that the things that we are doing are 
not just focusing on the degree pathway. In fact, most pilots 
that qualify newly already have college degrees.
    So, everything we are doing needs to look not just at the 
very valuable degree pathway, but also at the other 
certificated and accredited institutions that are providing 
training.
    Mr. Collins. Thank you. Thank you. That is all I have, Mr. 
Chairman. I yield back.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Thank you very much, Mr. 
Collins.
    Next up is Mr. Payne. He is recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Payne. Chairman, I thought Mr. Carbajal is next.
    Mr. Carbajal It is OK. Go ahead. It is OK.
    Mr. Payne. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Since 2000, the 
passenger airline industry has consolidated significantly with 
eight mainline passenger carrier mergers, and the ninth is 
still pending. Over the same time period, there have been three 
outside events that had disproportionate impact on the airline 
industry: September 11, the Great Recession, and COVID.
    Against that backdrop of these disruptions, people looking 
at career pathways could be forgiven for choosing an industry 
that seemingly provides greater stability and isn't on the 
front line of layoffs and economic downturns.
    Ms. Faye Marlarkey Black--Ms. Black, how do you help 
prospective employees feel competent in choosing a job in the 
aviation sector?
    Ms. Black. I think that comes down to the help of the 
industry, and it is all interconnected. The health of pilot 
careers--and not just pilot careers, but the other individuals 
who lose their jobs, and we don't have enough pilots--depends 
on a healthy industry, and so do the communities that regional 
airlines exclusively connect. And so, I think we focus on a 
safe and a healthy and a strong environment for our airlines. 
We were extremely grateful for the leadership of this committee 
and Congress in the Payroll Support Program. It saved our 
workforce. And you also leaned in hard to make sure that 
regional airlines, which look a little bit different from the 
majors, were able to access it, and for that I thank you.
    Mr. Payne. Thank you. The importance of a diverse workforce 
is not just a matter of equity, but also improves the overall 
operations of the aviation industry.
    Captain Ambrosi, can you please share with us how 
recruiting a diverse workforce improves the safety of airline 
operations?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. Having a 
diverse workforce is essential. We have over 1,000 visits a 
year from middle schools on up trying to encourage the next 
generation of pilots to getting into this. This is a wonderful 
job. As I have said many times, this is a great profession.
    And Federal loans, grants to build aviation programs at 
Historically Black Colleges and Universities and other 
minority-serving institutions, 529, it is an all-of-the-above 
type approach. So, doing that will certainly help bolster our 
workforce moving forward.
    Mr. Payne. Thank you. It is just a matter of necessity 
these days that we look to diversify this workforce. We are 
running out of the normal people that have been able to get 
these jobs over decades and the people that are in this 
position to potentially move into that position look a little 
different than the workforce of the past. So, it is just 
necessity in numbers that we diversify. And with that, I will 
yield back.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Thank you, sir. I will 
recognize myself for 5 minutes. Mr. Ambrosi, I want to make 
sure I have a proper understanding of the kind of medical 
examinations that pilots go through. It is my understanding 
there is a routine medical examination every 6 months. There is 
an EKG every 12 months for pilots over 40. And then, of course, 
you have got the regular recurring training and qualifications 
regimen. Is that right?
    Mr. Ambrosi. That is correct.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So, commercial airline pilots 
are forced to retire today at 65. You can be older than that 
and be a part 135 operator, right? That would be charter jets, 
corporate jets. Is my understanding on that right?
    Mr. Ambrosi. It is the exact number of passengers you can 
carry. I am not sure, but yes, in a general nature.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So, do we have data-based 
evidence that tells us that part 135 operators between the ages 
of 65 and 67 are more dangerous than part 135 operators between 
the ages of, say, 60 and 65? Is there a data-based evidentiary 
record for that?
    Mr. Ambrosi. I am not here to say who's dangerous. I can 
tell you that the Europeans have studied this extensively, 
raising the retirement age past 60 with medical evidence, and 
it said, no, it is not a good idea, and they are recommending 
against it.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So, you said Europeans have 
studied this extensively and that you have knowledge of that 
research. So, Captain, do we know what data they used to draw 
the conclusion you said they had drawn?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Sir, I am certainly happy to have my team 
share with your team the studies that they referenced.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Sure. I mean, we have 
thousands of these part 135 operators between the ages of 65 
and 67. If there was evidence that there was an adverse impact 
on safety, wouldn't we know that in this country? Would we need 
to look across the pond to be able to understand the safety 
environment?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Look, right now, airlines with hundreds of 
people in the back get much more scrutiny than what might be 
happening in general aviation and other sectors. So, I can't 
speak to accident rates in general aviation or whatever. What I 
can tell you is in part 121 airline operations, which I do, we 
have had a 99.8-percent reduction in accidents in the last 10 
years. And it is based on the current system. The current 
system is working. I will mention on top of the fact of the 
retirement age, those are the other hurdles, which I have 
previously addressed where pilots over the age of 65--the 
international standard is 65--those pilots would no longer be 
allowed to fly internationally and would cause a----
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota [interrupting]. Oh, Captain 
Ambrosi, you and I both know there are all kinds of instances 
in transportation and elsewhere where America is able to lead 
the world. I don't think we want to give the Europeans a veto 
over what we view as a safe and efficient aviation system.
    So, Ms. Black, I will turn to you. In your testimony, I 
think you noted that in the next 15 years, 50 percent of pilots 
will be retiring. One number that I think I also heard was 
17,000 retirements in the next 9 years. What is the likelihood 
that those retirements would have an adverse impact on rural 
markets like those in my State?
    Ms. Black. They will hurt rural markets first and worst 
just as the retirements and the other attrition has for rural 
markets first and worst under the existing pilot shortage. And 
I would be remiss if I didn't mention a couple of things about 
the safety record of older pilots. These pilots are not 
operating in a different world, they are operating in our 
country. They are flying over your schools, your churches, your 
synagogues, they are in our system, and they are flying safely.
    Canada and Japan have a retirement age that is higher than 
65. And ICAO is actually looking at increasing the retirement 
age in Europe as well.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. So, Ms. Black, if the 
retirement age for commercial airline pilots was moved from 65 
to 67, might that help improve rural air service?
    Ms. Black. Yes, very specifically, it would alleviate the 
captain shortage that we have. These are some of the most 
experienced pilots, and they are needed to develop the next 
generation.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Ms. Black, does the bulk of 
literature in this area suggest that pilots between the ages of 
65 and 67 would have an adverse impact on safety?
    Ms. Black. Absolutely not.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. OK. Mr. Ambrosi, turning again 
to you, I thought the chairman in his opening comments did a 
great job of talking about ATP. And earlier you mentioned that 
the FAA already has the flexibility in law to develop some 
additional pathways to an ATP. That sounds great to me. Would 
you join me in encouraging the FAA to use the flexibilities 
they already have in law?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Sir, to your previous question, and I will 
jump right on----
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota [interrupting]. I only have 14 
seconds, sir. I have got to get an answer. Would you encourage 
the FAA to use those authorities they have?
    Mr. Ambrosi. No one has given them a proposal. So, bring a 
proposal, and let the FAA take a look at it.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. All right. Good. Thank you, 
sir. With that, my time has expired. And we will look toward 
Mr. Carbajal. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Captain Ambrosi, there 
is a lot of noise regarding the current supply of pilots in the 
workforce. GAO testimony mentions the supply of pilots is 
expected to increase. From your perspective, do we have enough 
pilots in the workforce to meet the current and future demands, 
especially as we welcome new entrants into the airspace?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes, sir. The pilot supply is good. The 
pipeline is full. We have a training backlog. As in any 
pandemic-related industry, we are getting caught back up. Help 
is around the corner. Pilots are training as fast as they can. 
So, we do need to get--as we said previously, keep outreach, 
get more people involved in this, more diverse backgrounds, but 
the pilot supply is good.
    With your indulgence, I would like to reference a fact on 
FAR 135 accidents. There have been 79 accidents since 2010 with 
hundreds of fatalities, just to put that on the record.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. I recently ran into one of my 
colleagues across the aisle, former General Bergman, who is a 
pilot himself. And I was really taken aback. He volunteered 
that he was adamantly against changing the age for our pilots. 
And it just caught me off guard because I wasn't even 
discussing that issue with him. But I only mentioned that 
because he is somebody who I respect greatly and served in the 
Marine Corps as I did. And, again, he went to great lengths to 
let me know why he was concerned with that proposal.
    Mr. Thress and Captain Ambrosi, can you identify and 
describe any conditions, factors, or scenarios that flight 
simulators do not capture that real-world flying does?
    Mr. Thress. There are certainly some scenarios and some 
physiological effects that the simulator doesn't capture. So, 
one would be the effects of Gs. So, during an unusual recovery 
in the simulator, you will still only feel 1 G on your body, 
whereas in the airplane you may feel 4 or 5, which can be 
disconcerting if you are not accustomed to it. So, that would 
be the first thing that comes to mind.
    The second thing is we simulate rapid decompression and 
emergency descents. But we do that through aural cues, and the 
cues provided by the aircraft's annunciator system rather than 
your ears popping and the other effects of actual change in 
pressure. Those things are done in another simulator called an 
altitude chamber.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. Captain?
    Mr. Ambrosi. Thank you, sir. In addition to the items Mr. 
Thress discussed, a simulator can't be programmed for 
everything. So, there are real-world situations. But let's 
point out the most obvious thing that a simulator can't do: 
Give you that ``I could perish if I don't do the right thing'' 
thing. Because a simulator, you can always get out and reset 
and walk away, which you can't do in a real airplane in real 
airspace.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you. Ms. Krause, your testimony cites 
that although women represented 47 percent of the total U.S. 
workforce in 2021, only 17 percent of the pilot students are 
women. Obviously, I think we can do a better job of encouraging 
women to join STEM careers.
    How can we do a better job of ensuring our aviation 
workforce is reflective of our Nation's diversity, including 
women?
    Ms. Krause. The issue of diversity is really a shared 
responsibility with the Government, industry, and the schools. 
I think as Dr. DeVivo referenced, you have a couple of task 
force reports out there with a number of recommendations to the 
Congress, to FAA, to industry. It is important to take a look 
at those, the different parties and see what might be 
implemented. On the FAA side, they have shared with us what 
they plan to start looking through those recommendations, 
figure out how they might implement them, and then track them 
on their website.
    Mr. Carbajal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. I thank Captain Ambrosi for 
sharing his information regarding part 135 operators, and I 
know we want a full and complete record. So, I would just ask 
afterwards you follow up breaking down those incidents by 
pilots between the ages of 65 and 67 and that rate versus 
pilots who are younger.
    With that, let's go to Mr. D'Esposito of New York. Sir, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair, and good 
afternoon, everyone. Thank you for being here. As you may or 
may not know, Long Island is a proud host of the N90 TRACON. It 
is actually nestles in the north center part of my district. I 
visited there a couple of weeks ago. I met with the individuals 
who run that facility, and it was definitely eye-opening to the 
aviation industry.
    But as we have discussed today, unfortunately, the Nation's 
workforce challenges deeply have affected the aviation 
community. And on the topic of the current and future 
challenges facing the aerospace workforce, air traffic 
controllers play a vital role in ensuring flight safety and 
efficiency.
    There is an air traffic controller shortage that has been 
overlooked, we believe, for far too long. And the number of air 
traffic controllers that have clocked enough training hours at 
N90 are dangerously low, and if left unaddressed, will be 
harmful to New Yorkers and obviously their passenger 
experience.
    So, my questions are for Dr. DeVivo. Are there any 
regulatory barriers that have prevented timely training and 
certification for our much beloved air traffic controllers?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes. So, thank you so much for that question. 
And we are a certified--a collegiate training institute as part 
of the FAA's program to work with institutions to offer air 
traffic control. And we are in New York, and they like to work 
with us because our students want to come home.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Right.
    Ms. DeVivo. And they will do a set of four courses and then 
get a recommendation from us if they graduate and pass those 
courses effectively and go on to training at Oklahoma City. I 
know that N90, because I am in New York, too, has been a bit of 
an issue. It is something that we are more than happy to assist 
with, because of the fact that our students want to come back 
to New York. The JFK tower is almost completely filled with 
Vaughn graduates. And many of our students are at the TRACON as 
well. It is a very complicated training spot, and it is hard to 
hold onto folks as well. So, I don't know enough about exactly 
what their training program is from Oklahoma City to the N90, 
but I do think that there are options to help with that.
    Mr. D'Esposito. And it is good to hear you say that they 
want to come home, because I know that we are working hard to 
make sure that we keep the 30 or so air traffic controllers 
that have been asked by the FAA to move elsewhere to stay at 
that facility. So, I think that is what we all want: for them 
to come home. And, obviously, has the current workforce 
challenges, how has it affected your institution?
    Ms. DeVivo. Right, so, we have lost about 26 percent of our 
enrollment since the start of COVID. We were on this nice 
uptick as the demand increased, and COVID hit our families 
really hard. As you know, New York City was particularly hard 
hit by COVID. Our ZIP Code was one of the hardest initially 
hit. And so, our families, whose average family income is 
anywhere between $34,000 and $42,000, they lost their jobs. 
They lost family members who died because of the coronavirus. 
And so, education was not something that they were able to do. 
So, we have had quite a few stop-outs. But we are starting to 
see the enrollment come back. The salaries certainly help in 
terms of encouraging students to consider aviation and 
aerospace as a career path.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Yes, and so, I guess to that point, have 
there been any changes that you made at Vaughn to attract new 
students and to have that uptick once again?
    Ms. DeVivo. Yes, so, we really, really work hard to sell 
the return on investment, right? So, we are talking a lot about 
a defined career pathway. That is why our students come to us. 
Because their students and their families want to know: What is 
the job at the end of this? When can I start to see some income 
for my family? And we are not just changing that student's 
story, we are changing that whole family's trajectory. And so, 
having the ability to talk about the demand, which thankfully 
the media covers for us, has been hugely helpful in terms of 
attracting students to the programs.
    Mr. D'Esposito. Well, I appreciate your work and, 
obviously, if there is anything that I can do to help keep our 
people home and make sure that they stay working and living in 
New York, which is obviously very often burdened with some high 
taxes, we want to keep them there. So, I appreciate your work. 
Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. I thank the gentleman and 
would now turn to the gentleman from California, Mr. 
DeSaulnier.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Captain Ambrosi, I 
want to give you a second to finish your thought to the 
chairman. I agree with him about American exceptionalism and 
can-do spirit, but I also believe Americans can learn from 
others. You were finishing about some of the things that 
Europeans were doing in terms of retirement age.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Thank you, sir. I appreciate that. I just 
wanted to point out that part 121 operations are the safest 
they have ever been. And my team gave me some facts on other 
parts that had been referenced and just wanted to share that 
with the committee, but I am happy to follow up with more 
detailed data for the committee.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. And we can always explain to the Europeans 
how well we do as well.
    Mr. Ambrosi. To follow up on the ICAO piece, because I did 
get cut off on that, was ICAO is not just going to change the 
rules because the U.S. says. That is just not how it works. 
They will put it into a study. So, if the Europeans say one 
thing, and the U.S. says another, we know how this world works, 
it is not going to be, oops, the U.S. said this, so, let's flip 
the switch. They are going to put it into a study, which could 
be, who knows, years. So, just to clarify on that point.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. I appreciate that. And I really appreciate 
the chair and the leadership to have all of these thoughtful 
hearings. Reauthorization is a wonderful opportunity to look at 
all that we have done successfully, but also changing times, 
and, certainly, this one, with workforce development. At our 
last hearing, I was able, during my 5 minutes, to talk about 
air traffic controllers, in my experience, in the San Francisco 
Bay area, retaining those folks and training them. In my 
experience, with the near miss with Air Canada 9 years ago, 
where it was because of humans properly trained to the 
continuous training that avoided that. So, whether it was 
Captain Sullenberger and the Miracle on the Hudson, or that 
instance, or so many that we don't know, it is proper training 
and attracting people, but retaining them and training them.
    So, I am going to read you a quote from a mutual friend, 
Captain Ambrosi, and I want you to respond to it. Quote: 
``Airline industry lobbyists and some in Congress are still 
trying to cut pilot training in half to cheapen and quicken it. 
That is a dumb and dangerous idea. With the recent shocking 
airline near misses and close calls, now is absolutely not the 
time to cut corners. No one would want their loved ones to 
board an airliner piloted by a crew not able to handle whatever 
challenges they will face.'' Unquote.
    So, maybe you can respond to that. That is from a press 
release from a friend, a mutual friend, Ambassador Sully 
Sullenberger. And to quote, the headline on this is 
``Ambassador Sully Sullenberger Denounces Attempts To Cheapen 
Pilot Training.''
    So, the context of what I just said about the importance of 
having, not just getting people to go in the field, but to 
continue to keep those high standards. So, at that moment of 
decision, we have someone who is properly trained and continues 
to be trained at a minimum of the current standard so that we 
avoid these tragedies.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes, sir. Well, I better be careful because no 
one knows better than Sully, right? So, commenting on his 
comments could get me in trouble. But I agree with him 100 
percent. Right now, we are at the safest point in history, but 
yet we are still seeing some of these incidents. This is the 
wrong time to consider changing rules, potentionally rolling 
back safety regulations. Now is the time to make sure--pilots 
embrace technology. But as you said so well, sir, we are there, 
we are that last line of defense. So, we embrace technology. 
But a well-trained, well-rested, qualified flightcrew on the 
flight deck are that last line of defense when it comes to safe 
operation of the airplane, passengers, crew. So, thank you.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. And I understand the pressures on the 
industry. I have said this before, investment money is very 
mobile globally. People expect the return on investment, but it 
doesn't serve that return on investment in the long term to 
risk safety. And these questions about these near misses--I 
don't want to be pollyannish about this--the FAA and we 
collectively have a great record. So, I don't want to raise 
alarm, but they are clearly messages, are they not, that these 
are things that we should do root canal--root canal, Freudian 
slip--root causes that really get to the human factors in 
particular. There is a lot of pressure to push people through. 
And people want to travel. That is a good thing.
    Mr. Ambrosi. Yes, there is pressure on the system, right? 
We have a lot of new. It is not just pilots. We focused a lot 
on pilots here today. Rightfully so, because we are the most 
forward facing of the industry. But it is mechanics, flight 
attendants, gate personnel, people that work on the ramp, it is 
reservation agents, this whole system, air traffic control. 
Everything has a lot of new because of the post-COVID 
environment. People left the industry, not just pilots. Now a 
lot of new people are getting into the industry. So, we need to 
redouble our efforts on safety. Redouble our efforts to look at 
why those things are happening and work together--industry, 
FAA, labor--look together and say, hey, what are we doing? Do 
we need some more additional training? I apologize on the time.
    Mr. DeSaulnier. Thank you. I yield back. And if you hear 
from Captain Sullenberger, you can blame me.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. And the soft tap was just a 
gentle notice. When you have got people as experienced as 
Captain Ambrosi and the gentleman from California, you get an 
extra 15 or 30 seconds if you need it. So, if you want to 
finish your thought, Captain, of course, that is fine.
    Mr. Ambrosi. No, that is fine. I was wrapping up anyway. 
Again, safety is why we are all here.
    Mr. Johnson of South Dakota. Very good. The gentleman 
yields back. Are there any further questions from anyone on the 
subcommittee who may not have yet been recognized? Seeing none, 
that concludes our hearing.
    I want to thank each of our witnesses for your testimony. 
You did a good job. This is not the easiest thing in the world 
to do. Great job.
    I would ask unanimous consent that the record of today's 
hearing remain open until our witnesses have had an opportunity 
to respond to any questions they may have been asked that were 
submitted to them in writing. Without objection, that has been 
ordered. And then secondarily, I would ask unanimous consent 
that the record remain open for 15 days to allow Members to 
make additional comments or raise additional questions. We 
could also have the witnesses make additional comments, if they 
so wish. Is there any objection?
    Seeing none, that is so ordered. And with that, ladies and 
gentlemen, this subcommittee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]

                       Submissions for the Record

                              ----------                              


Statement of the Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, Submitted for 
                    the Record by Hon. Garret Graves
                             Introduction:
    Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Cohen, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the Aircraft 
Owners and Pilots Association's (AOPA) perspective on ``Examining the 
Current and Future Challenges Facing the Aerospace Workforce.''
    As the world's largest aviation membership organization, AOPA 
represents the general aviation interests of over 300,000 aircraft 
owners and pilots in the US. Our members collectively operate over 85% 
of all general aviation (GA) aircraft in the country and represent two-
thirds of all pilots.
    With a mission of protecting and defending the freedom to fly--
while prioritizing safety--AOPA has been a pillar of the aviation 
industry since its founding in 1939. However, attracting the next 
generation of diverse aviators is crucial for the industry's success.
    Despite positive initiatives to address workforce challenges and 
promote diversity within aviation, there remains a lack of coordination 
between different sectors of the industry and government.
    One of the biggest challenges facing our industry is ensuring that 
the United States has a well-qualified, well-trained, and diverse 
workforce to meet the demands that are present today and will remain 
well into the future.
       AOPA Initiative To Address the Next Generation of Pilots:
    Boeing's 2020-2039 Pilot and Technician Outlook projected a global 
need for over 760,000 new pilots and 730,000 aviation technicians over 
the next 20 years. Of those, North America will require over 200,000 
new pilots and a significant number of new technicians. A Boeing 
executive summary emphasizes that ``meeting the projected long-term 
demand'' for aviation positions ``will require a collective effort 
across the global aviation industry'' as ``tens of thousands of pilots, 
technicians, and cabin crew members reach retirement age over the next 
decade.'' The company added that educational outreach and career 
pathway programs ``will be essential to inspiring and recruiting the 
next generation.''
    Most people that aspire to become aviators start in general 
aviation, and AOPA plays a significant role in shaping the future of 
the aviation workforce by inspiring young people to explore aviation. 
Nowhere is this more evident than in such initiatives as the AOPA 
Foundation High School Aviation STEM Curriculum. By offering high-
quality aviation education to high school students across the country, 
AOPA is creating a pathway to rewarding aviation careers for thousands 
of young adults from diverse backgrounds.
    The courses offered by AOPA are designed to capture the imagination 
of the students and provide them with the necessary tools to pursue 
advanced education and careers in aviation. Not only does AOPA offer a 
free curriculum, we also take the lead on educating the educators, 
ensuring that teachers have the knowledge and resources to best plan 
for success.
    AOPA's High School Initiative program conforms to Common Core math 
and science standards, Next Generation Science Standards, FAA Airmen 
Certification Standards, and career and technical education best 
practices. By providing such a comprehensive curriculum, AOPA is 
enabling students to gain certification or industry-accepted tests 
such, as the FAA Private Pilot Knowledge test or a Part 107 small UAS 
(drone) pilot certification.
    The AOPA High School Aviation STEM Curriculum is now offered in 
more than 400 schools in 43 states across the country, engaging more 
than 16,300 students. Since the program's inception five years ago, we 
have reached more than 50,000 students, and a full 70% of those who 
have graduated report they are actively pursuing an aviation career.
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Moreover, and as important, nearly half of our curriculum students 
come from minority backgrounds, and more than 20% are female. This 
participation represents a significant increase in diversity when 
compared to the current aviation workforce. Again, for aviation to keep 
pace with ever-growing demands, it must reflect the broader society.
    Furthermore, AOPA's aviation education curriculum has also been 
implemented in schools of all sizes, in both rural and urban areas. The 
program is designed to be inclusive and accessible to students from all 
backgrounds, regardless of their socioeconomic status or geographic 
location.
    The interest in AOPA's curriculum from high schools across the 
country has been overwhelming, and the organization is committed to 
ensuring that high schools have the resources they need to teach 
students about aviation and all that it offers. AOPA is proud to play a 
leadership role in developing the future aviation workforce and looks 
forward to continuing its work with the Committee to promote aviation 
education and career opportunities for all.
              Congressional Action on Aviation Workforce:
    The inclusion of two aviation workforce development grant programs 
(aircraft pilots and aviation maintenance technical workers) in section 
625 of the 2018 FAA Reauthorization law is commendable and we 
appreciate the Committee leadership. This provision aims to encourage 
high school students to pursue science, technology, engineering, and 
math (STEM) aviation education and training, as well as training in 
aviation and aerospace skills. However, as Congress takes up the next 
FAA Reauthorization bill, more needs to be done.
          National Center For the Advancement of Aviation Act:
    The aviation industry is still facing a significant workforce 
challenge that needs to be urgently addressed. While there are 
undoubtedly many excellent programs designed to tackle this issue, 
including the AOPA High School Initiative and such governmental 
organizations as the two aviation workforce development programs, what 
is lacking is the necessary coordination and communication between the 
various sectors of the industry. A more cohesive approach to workforce 
issues is crucial to ensure that our aviation and aerospace workforce 
in the United States remains competitive. Collaboration--and the means 
to foster it--is of paramount importance. We believe, and the entire 
aviation industry supports, the bipartisan and bicameral National 
Center for the Advancement of Aviation (NCAA) Act is the solution. We 
appreciate the leadership of this Committee to move the bill which 
overwhelmingly passed the House last September by a vote of 369-56.
    Cong. Andre Carson (D-IN) and Cong. Pete Stauber (R-MN) plan to 
reintroduce the NCAA bill in the 118th Congress and we encourage the 
Committee to include this important legislation as part of the next FAA 
Reauthorization Act.
    This bill calls for the establishment of a federally chartered 
501(c)3 not-for-profit national aviation center that would facilitate 
cooperation, collaboration, and coordination across all sectors of 
aviation: civil, commercial, and military. The NCAA would focus on key 
areas including aviation and aerospace STEM curriculum for middle 
school and high school students, establish scholarships, 
apprenticeships, internship or mentorship programs to pursue careers in 
aviation or aerospace-related fields, support military veterans who 
would like to transition to a career in civil aviation or aerospace and 
provide a critical forum for cross-disciplinary collaboration and 
cooperation between governmental, non-governmental and private aviation 
and aerospace stakeholders to address the aviation and aerospace 
workforce.
    The NCAA would be a private entity and no general fund taxpayer 
dollars would be used to support it. Funding for the initiative would 
come by Congress authorizing and appropriating a small percentage (3%) 
of the interest accrued annually on the taxes and fees collected from 
those who use the system and are deposited into the aviation trust 
fund. Using just 3% of the interest, along with the industry support, 
is a small investment, less than 1/10th of 1% of the Trust Fund 
receipts, to ensure efficiencies and effectiveness are realized for an 
aviation and aerospace industry that supports more than 11 million jobs 
and contributes more than $1.6 trillion per year to the national 
economy.
    By uniting our collective efforts to ensure that we have a more 
diverse industry, the NCAA can create a pipeline of qualified and well-
trained talent. It will also be instrumental in including individuals 
who may not have been on our radar in the past, such as women and 
minorities, and veterans.
    Again, NCAA bill has the support of virtually the entire aviation 
industry, including general aviation, airlines, airport, manufacturers, 
unions, schools, and other entities involved in all segments of 
aviation and aerospace. Nearly 200 organizations, representing hundreds 
of thousands of Americans, have already expressed their support for 
this bill.
           NCAA Will Allow FAA To Focus on Its Core Missions:
    The FAA is facing significant obstacles in terms of modernizing the 
country's air traffic control system, as well as coping with such air 
travel disruptions as delays and cancellations that are impacting 
millions of Americans. The recent outage of the FAA's NOTAM system, 
which impacted the entire aviation system, is just one example. FAA's 
primary focus has been and should continue to be, to ensure the safety 
and efficiency of our national aviation system. Everything the FAA does 
should be directly tied to, and in support of, that mission, and 
comprise functions that can only be performed by a regulatory body.
    According to the FAA's FY24 budget proposal, the agency ``holds 
safety as the FAA's highest priority, with an emphasis on the 
modernization of our nation's airspace and telecommunications systems 
necessary to provide reliable transportation to the flying public.'' We 
fully agree with that, however, ensuring a highly talented aviation 
workforce for the future which is essential for the growth of the 
aviation and aerospace industry, should not be a primary focus of the 
FAA.
    The NCAA, with the support of the government and the aviation and 
aerospace industry, is the ideal entity to help address the workforce 
issues we are facing. A national center focused on aviation workforce 
will also help increase the FAA's efficiency and allow the agency to 
maintain a laser focus on aviation safety and ensure FAA programs and 
processes are centered on its core mission of aviation safety, air 
traffic control (ATC), airport infrastructure, and airman and aircraft 
certification. We should allow the FAA to focus on getting more 
designated pilot examiners (DPE) in the field, fixing the special 
issuance medical process, ensuring that our airports remain safe and 
vibrant, and continuing to modernize our air traffic system.
    AOPA firmly believes that FAA needs to maintain operational control 
and regulatory authority across its various lines of business that 
support its mission. However, where there are opportunities to trim 
functions that are not essential to FAA's core, such as aviation 
workforce development, we should look for bold initiatives like the 
National Center for the Advancement of Aviation.
                              Conclusion:
    Collaboration between private and governmental organizations is 
crucial to address the challenges related to the development and 
sustainability of the aviation workforce. The aviation industry is 
constantly evolving, and it requires a skilled and diverse workforce to 
adapt to these changes. A cohesive approach is needed to ensure that 
the aviation and aerospace workforce in the United States remains 
competitive.
    The National Center for the Advancement of Aviation Act is a bold 
and necessary initiative that will facilitate collaboration and 
coordination across all sectors of the aviation industry, ensuring a 
more diverse and skilled workforce, and promoting growth and 
sustainability in this crucial sector of the American economy while 
allowing the FAA to focus on its core mission--aviation safety and 
managing our national air space system.
    We are excited about the prospect of including the National Center 
for the Advancement of Aviation Act in the upcoming FAA Reauthorization 
bill and we look forward to working with all Members of the Committee 
to ensure that it is included in the final bill.

                                 
  Letter of May 4, 2023, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Rick 
Larsen, Ranking Member, Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, 
and Hon. Garret Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Steve Cohen, Ranking Member, 
  Subcommittee on Aviation, from Airports Council International-North 
     America et al., Submitted for the Record by Hon. Garret Graves
                                                       May 4, 2023.
The Honorable Sam Graves,
Chairman,
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, United States House of 
        Representatives, Washington, DC 20515.
The Honorable Rick Larsen,
Ranking Member,
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, United States House of 
        Representatives, Washington DC 20515.
The Honorable Garret Graves,
Chairman,
Subcommittee on Aviation, Committee on Transportation and 
        Infrastructure, United States House of Representatives, 
        Washington, DC 20515.
The Honorable Steve Cohen,
Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Aviation, Committee on Transportation and 
        Infrastructure, United States House of Representatives, 
        Washington, DC 20515.
    Dear Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, Chairman Graves, and 
Ranking Member Cohen,
    We, the undersigned organizations, write in strong opposition to 
the inclusion of policies that would fundamentally undermine the 
existing Open Skies aviation agreement framework within the 2023 
Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) reauthorization bill.
    For more than 30 years, Open Skies agreements have been a 
bipartisan policy success, advanced by both Democratic and Republican 
administrations. These bilateral trade agreements allow U.S. passenger 
and cargo airlines to fly around the world without the government 
interference in airline decision-making about routes, capacity, and 
pricing, which was very prevalent before the U.S. decided to export its 
domestic aviation deregulation policies to the international 
marketplace.
    The U.S. has reached Open Skies agreements with more than 130 
countries, creating significant benefits for consumers, the aviation 
workforce, as well as the economy at large. Recent estimates \1\ 
demonstrate that these accords have generated at least $4 billion in 
annual gains to travelers, along with a 15 percent average drop in 
fares. Additionally, a 2018 D.C. Circuit Court opinion \2\ found that 
these agreements ``promote competition'' and that ``a service 
authorized by a bilateral agreement is in the public interest.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ See: https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Open-
Skies-Published.pdf
    \2\ See: www.cadc.uscourts.gov/internet/opinions.nsf/
42B692B364342E5D8525828A004DB9AC/$file/17-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Placing burdensome conditions and requirements on new foreign air 
carrier permits would violate existing Open Skies agreements and invite 
retaliation from U.S. aviation partners worldwide. During an April 19, 
2023, hearing \3\ in the U.S. House Transportation and Infrastructure--
Subcommittee on Aviation, Airline Pilots Association, International 
(ALPA) President Capt. Jason Ambrosi testified in support of including 
so-called ``flags of convenience'' legislation within the 2023 FAA 
Reauthorization bill. He wrongly \4\ claimed the U.S. Department of 
Transportation (DOT) has ignored the statutory public interest 
requirements of 49 U.S. Code Sec.  40101 in past foreign air carrier 
permit decisions. In fact, DOT is already statutorily required to make 
a public interest finding in awarding routes to air carriers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ See: https://transportation.house.gov/calendar/
eventsingle.aspx?EventID=406262
    \4\ See: https://docs.house.gov/meetings/PW/PW05/20230419/115681/
HHRG-118-PW05-Wstate-AmbrosiJ-20230419.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Erroneously dubbed as the ``Fair and Open Skies Act,'' \5\ this 
legislation and others like it would put the U.S. in violation of an 
international trade agreement that could lead to legal action by 
foreign government partners. While ALPA has tried to downplay the 
threat of retaliation in the past, recent responses from the EU clearly 
demonstrate their intention to uphold terms of the U.S.-EU Air 
Transport Agreement (ATA). On July 23, 2019, the then Director-General 
of the European Commission (EC)'s Department for Mobility and 
Transport, stated in a speech \6\ to the International Aviation Club of 
Washington, D.C., ``I sincerely hope that all parties honour and value 
our [Air Transport] Agreement and if need be, we will use all legal 
means to defend ATA.'' The EU has also previously filed for arbitration 
\7\ against the U.S. for breaching this pact during Norwegian Air 
International's application process, saying that DOT's slow-walk to a 
decision ``constitutes a breach of the EU-U.S. Air Transport 
Agreement.''
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ See: http://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-bill/
3095/text
    \6\ See: https://transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2019-07/2019-
07-23-international-aviation-club-dc.pdf
    \7\ See: www.reuters.com/article/norweg-air-shut-eu-usa/eu-files-
for-arbitration-in-u-s-dispute-over-
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additionally, in the authoritative Memorandum of Consultations \8\ 
signed in 2010 at the conclusion of the U.S.-EU negotiations, the 
delegations stated explicitly that ``in the event that a Party would 
take measures contrary to the Agreement . . . the other Party may avail 
itself of any appropriate and proportional measures in accordance with 
international law, including the Agreement.'' The EC has also 
emphasized that, if such a bill were to be signed into law, the U.S. 
would be in clear violation of the U.S.-EU Open Skies Agreement. As 
such, ALPA's assertions that the EU does not have the ability or will 
to unilaterally act against U.S. air carriers is demonstrably false.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\ See: www.gsa.gov/cdnstatic/Switzerland_Transport_Agreement.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We are grateful for this committee's leadership, and dismissal for 
more than a decade, of ALPA's dubious and misleading claims surrounding 
shortfalls in the Open Skies framework. A so-called ``flags of 
convenience'' bill would only serve to place the U.S. in violation of 
the U.S.-EU Open Skies Agreement and invite retaliation on the U.S. 
commercial and cargo aviation industries by our international 
partners--with consumers and U.S. businesses shouldering the greatest 
consequences. Therefore, we ask for your continued leadership in 
upholding the Open Skies framework in the 2023 FAA reauthorization 
bill.
        Sincerely,
              Airports Council International-North America.
                                                    Airbus.
                                                 Atlas Air.
                                 Cargo Airline Association.
                                                     FedEx.
                   International Air Transport Association.
                                                   JetBlue.

                                 
    Statement of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, 
              Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
        Commercial Airline Staffing Concerns: Flight Attendants
    1.  The 10-hour minimum rest rule has helped significantly in 
providing Flight Attendants additional rest. At American Airlines, 
Flight Attendants still receive 8 hours ``behind the [hotel] door'' 
which means that eating, showering, preparing uniforms for the next 
day, and other personal tasks are all accomplished during the 8 hours. 
This often still leaves 5-6 hours for sleeping.

    2.  Crew Scheduling is not restricted from contacting Flight 
Attendants during rest hours. Frequently, Flight Attendants are called 
multiple times during the hours of 0000-0500 regarding a rescheduled 
flight. If the Flight Attendant does not answer the calls, the 
scheduler will send hotel staff up to the room to wake up the Flight 
Attendant to tell them to call the company.

    3.  American Airlines is still frequently unable to provide crew 
hotel rooms when Flight Attendants land in their layover city. This 
past week, with the closure of the FLL airport due to flooding, 
numerous Flight Attendants were stuck in the airport, sleeping in the 
terminal or on empty airplanes with no air conditioning, toilets, or 
water.

    4.  American Airlines is struggling with Flight Attendant 
attrition. Our workforce is aging out and reaching retirement age. 
46.5% of American Airlines Flight Attendants are between ages 55 and 
86.While Flight Attendants are hired to replace those who are 
resigning, retiring, or being terminated, the airline is still unable 
to keep up with attrition. As a result, American Airlines is then 
unable to staff aircraft with more than FAR minimum crew.

    5.  Before the pandemic, American Airlines flew premium service 
flights with 2 or more Flight Attendants above FAR minimum crew--
typically international flights or trans-continental flights with 
elevated levels of service for passengers. These flights are now flown 
with FAR minimum crew, despite the return to a full in-flight service. 
American Airlines cut staffing when our planes were empty during the 
pandemic. Our planes are now full again. Our staffing needs to return 
to 2019 levels.

    6.  When international flights to Europe, Asia, and South America 
are staffed with minimum crew, if a Flight Attendant is injured or 
becomes ill on a layover, the company must scramble to find someone to 
work the flight back to the US. Pre-pandemic, international flights 
were staffed above FAR minimum crew. This has created delays and/or 
cancellations, which in turn disrupts plans for our passengers. These 
situations should be uncommon but are now commonplace. Additionally, it 
causes Flight Attendants to be rescheduled, who then lose time off work 
with little or no additional compensation. For example:
          Flight 293--DEL to JFK--April 16, 2023--One Flight Attendant 
was injured while on layover in Delhi, India. Because the flight was 
staffed at FAR minimum, the crew was not legal to fly the 16-hour 25-
minute flight. American Airlines was nearly forced to divert to Bangor, 
Maine where a relief crew would be positioned to work the 25-minute 
flight from BGR to JFK. However, the diversion was averted because an 
off-duty Flight Attendant on personal travel was available. This is an 
extreme measure that is purely dependent on the serendipity of a 
crewmember being present at the out-station who is willing and able to 
work the flight.

    7.  American Airlines continues to force Flight Attendants into 
more ``productive'' schedules. There are now longer duty days, with 
more flight segments, and shorter rest periods. The monthly line 
average has increased from 74-78 hours to 81-86 hours. This equates to 
1-2 extra days at work each month. These hours are the hours in which 
the aircraft door is actually closed, as Flight Attendants are not paid 
until the door is shut. Pay stops upon arrival when the door is opened. 
This productivity results in flying more hours, longer hours in the air 
and on the ground, shorter rest breaks, and fewer days off. American 
Airlines is currently flying more domestic vs international hours than 
pre-pandemic. The extra boardings, deplanings, and unpaid time between 
flights are much more challenging and wearing than a single long-haul 
international flight.

    8.  During high-traffic periods (spring break, summer, holidays, 
and 3-day weekends) flight schedules increase significantly. Even with 
the increased number of Flight Attendants who have been hired and 
trained, airlines struggle to keep up with the increased flying during 
these periods. The flights are full, and the company adjusts the flying 
schedule to meet demand, leaving crews minimally staffed on every 
holiday and weekend period.

    9.  The Flight Attendant profession has changed dramatically 
beginning with the attacks of 9/11 and continuing through the Covid 
pandemic. Flight Attendants work in small quarters, 35,000 feet in the 
air, exposed to fumes and radiation, outnumbered 50-1 by passengers, 
and on their own to manage any and all emergency situations. Social 
media and the news have captured in graphic detail what Flight 
Attendants face with unruly passengers. Assaults, attacks, and beatings 
are happening on a regular basis. Frequently, the assailants are 
released with minimal repercussions, leaving Flight Attendants feeling 
anxious, afraid, and unprotected at work. With additional staffing, it 
is easier to anticipate any potential conflicts and resolve them before 
they escalate into physical altercation.

    10.  All the situations previously create a job that was once, but 
no longer is, coveted. Now airlines are struggling to find qualified 
candidates and retain them. Coupled with draconian attendance policies 
and performance requirements for Flight Attendants, there is now even 
higher attrition, and airlines unable and unwilling to staff aircraft 
with more than FAR minimum crew. When Flight Attendants fly more, they 
are exposed more, and get sick more. They are disciplined for calling 
in sick. They are also disciplined for coming to work sick.

    11.  For decades, the Flight Attendant position was desired because 
it offered a flexible work schedule, great travel benefits, and decent 
pay with benefits. Most airlines stopped offering pensions during the 
bankruptcies in the 1980's, benefits packages were significantly 
reduced, and flexibility disappeared. Most Flight Attendants were 
willing to trade higher wages for the benefits and flexibility. 
However, many airlines are 4-5 years past renewal of contracts, so 
there have been no raises or improvements to working conditions for 
several years.

    12.  The quality of the layover hotels has also been compromised. 
Many hotels have bedbugs or sub-standard cleaning, exposing Flight 
Attendants to even more germs and sickness than what they are exposed 
to on the aircraft. During the pandemic, airline management had to be 
pressured into allowing Flight Attendants to wear masks saying it would 
`scare the passengers.' As frontline essential workers, APFA lost 
Flight Attendants to Covid during the pandemic.

    13.  Workers' comp claims for Flight Attendants are frequently 
denied. Studies on professions with the highest number of on-the-job 
injuries usually include Flight Attendants on the top ten, if not top 
five, list of unsafe jobs. Additional staffing would prevent 
repetitive-use injuries sustained from closing overhead bins, lifting 
bags, and carrying heavy items.

    14.  Scheduling flight crew at FAR minimum is not good for either 
airline customers or employees. Weather events and mechanical issues 
will always exist, but understaffing delays are entirely preventable. 
When proper staffing is in place, the airline is nimbler to recover the 
operation and get passengers to their intended destinations.

                                 
Letter of April 19, 2023, from the Families of Continental Flight 3407, 
              Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
                                                    April 19, 2023.
United States House of Representatives,
Aviation Subcommittee of the Committee on Transportation and 
        Infrastructure,
Washington, DC.
    Dear Sir or Madam:
    The `Families of Continental Flight 3407' appreciate the offer to 
provide a submission to the record regarding House Aviation 
Subcommittee hearing ``FAA Reauthorization: Examining the Current and 
Future Challenges Facing the Aerospace Workplace''.
    First, we want to thank members of Congress who unanimously passed 
landmark aviation safety legislation Public Law 111-216, `The Airline 
Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010'. 
Implemented by the FAA, this legislation significantly upgraded safety 
standards for pilot qualification and experience, pilot training, 
safety management systems, pilot flight and duty rules, pilot resource 
development, a new Pilot Record Database, and oversight. These 
improvements along with continued focus by aviation stakeholders have 
contributed to the safest period in U.S. aviation history where there 
has not been a domestic Part 121 fatal airline crash in over 14 years.
    We feel it important to respond to comments offered by House 
Transportation and Infrastructure Chairman Graves in his statement, 
questioning the value of pilot flying hours of experience by referring 
to actual pilot flying hours of experience in several regional airline 
crashes that occurred before the Airline Safety Act of 2010 was passed. 
His passionate comments selectively focused on pilot flight hours at 
the time of each accident and are not reflective of the true intent of 
the Airline Safety Act of 2010, where all upgraded requirements work 
together to result in a safer aviation system. The Families of 
Continental Flight 3407 refer to the phrase, ``Let's put the best 
pilots in the cockpit and set them up for success''. Flight experience 
PRIOR to becoming a Part 121 Captain or First Officer is important, and 
a critical component of the screening and preparation for the 
responsibility of transporting passengers safely to their destinations.
    When Captain Renslow (Flight 3407) was hired, he only had 600 hours 
of flight experience. He did not disclose previous multiple failed 
check rides and Colgan Air failed to look far enough into his 
background to see his multiple failed check rides. His lack of 
airmanship and foundational flying skills continued after Colgan Air 
hired him. Marvin Renslow was hired at a time when Colgan Air was 
rapidly expanding. Economic pressures were driving their accelerated 
hiring of pilots, including pilots like Marvin Renslow, who had far 
fewer hours of experience and less vetting. Economic pressure to get 
and keep flights in the air continued and was one of the reasons Marvin 
Renslow was both hired and retained at Colgan, even promoted, despite 
several additional failed check rides. The system at the time allowed 
for his career to progress, rather than restrict further advancement. 
He should have washed out. At the National Transportation Safety Board 
hearings investigating the crash, Colgan management testified they 
would not have hired him knowing what they learned after the crash. The 
requirements put in place by the Airline Safety Act of 2010 for an 
Airline Transport Pilot certification now require an elevated 
demonstration of both written and actual flying skills, as well as an 
increase in the number of hours, and the type of hours of experience 
and provide a more comprehensive record of pilot training and 
experience. These requirements serve as a check against an airline 
succumbing to economic pressures to hire pilots with less experience 
and training, which could put passenger safety at risk. It is the 
enhanced hours and experience required, as well as more stringent 
testing requirements for an ATP certification today, that have made 
this the safest period in U.S. airline history.
    It should be noted that prior to the Airline Safety Act of 2010, 
the major Part 121 U.S. airlines required far more than 1500 hours of 
flying experience before hiring. Their requirement for several thousand 
hours of experience to be considered for hire was reflected in their 
safety record. The last 6 fatal crashes, including the crash of 
Continental Flight 3407, were all on Regional Airlines. The now lengthy 
safety record which includes both Regional and Major Part 121 airlines 
since the Airline Safety Act of 2010, is a testament to the enhanced 
and higher First Officer Qualifications, Pilot Training, Safety 
Management Systems, Flight and Duty time, and Pilot Record Database, 
which are the keystones, working together, building the stellar safety 
record in Part 121 Major and Regional airlines today.
    Also, included in the hearing was testimony and discussion 
requesting more hourly credit for flight simulator experience to be 
given toward attaining an ATP or RATP certificate. Mr. Brad Thress 
(President & CEO--Flight Safety International) explained simulator 
technology and expressed his belief that the technology can provide 
virtual experience in different environmental and mechanical scenarios 
which pilots might encounter, without risk of personal harm or aircraft 
damage. Simulator costs are approximately $12 million dollars each, 
which he claims will result in a more cost-effective option for new 
pilots versus flying real planes. However, during questioning about the 
ability of simulators to duplicate all elements of the flying 
experience, he admitted there are critical sensory and tactile elements 
that the technology is unable to replicate. That same understanding was 
considered by FAA during the development of the upgraded ATP and RATP 
certificate which do include up to 100 hours of credit for certain 
flight simulator flying.
    We also recognize professional pilots Captain Chesley Sullenberger 
and First Officer Jeff Skiles (now Captain) of ``Miracle on the 
Hudson,'' who have said the FAA got it right when developing the new 
ATP and RATP certificate. Both have publicly commented that there is no 
replacement for the experience a new pilot gains every time he or she 
flies an aircraft. The Families of Continental Flight 3407 do NOT 
support any changes to credits for simulator flying experience towards 
qualification for an ATP or RATP certificate.
    An area of consideration discussed at the Hearing that the Families 
of Continental Flight 3407 do support is the development of more 
pathways for future aviation employees to start a career. We support 
the providing of financial assistance to help manage the training 
expenses to enter these occupations. Ideas like aviation job fairs, 
airline industry/ high school career days, air shows etc. are all good 
avenues to highlight jobs in the aviation sector. Availability of 
grants, low interest loans, G.I. Bill modifications, 529 plan 
adjustments etc. are good proposals to help manage education expenses. 
These are worthy of more consideration in the pending FAA 
reauthorization bill.
        Sincerely,
                   The Families of Continental Flight 3407.

                                 
    Press Release of April 19, 2023, from the Transportation Trades 
   Department, AFL-CIO, Submitted for the Record by Hon. Rick Larsen
April 19, 2023
    Transportation Labor Reaffirms Support for Pilot Training Rules
    washington--Greg Regan and Shari Semelsberger, President and 
Secretary-Treasurer of the AFL-CIO Transportation Trades Department 
(TTD), released this statement as the House Aviation Subcommittee holds 
a hearing on ``FAA Reauthorization: Examining the Current and Future 
Challenges Facing the Aerospace Workforce (https://
transportation.house.gov/calendar/eventsingle.aspx?EventID=406262)'':

          ``Today, the nation's largest transportation labor 
        federation, representing 37 unions and millions of workers 
        across aviation and other transport industries, reaffirms our 
        support for the United States' current pilot training and First 
        Officer Qualification Rules, including the 1500 hour rule, and 
        oppose moving from experiential or real flying time to 
        simulator-based training.
          ``Some stakeholders in the aviation industry are using the 
        specter of a fictitious pilot shortage in an attempt to weaken 
        U.S. pilot training standards. To be clear: there is no 
        shortage of pilots. According to the Federal Aviation 
        Administration (FAA) data released today, pilot production 
        remains strong. It is imperative that Congress put the safety 
        of passengers and aviation workers first and reject any calls 
        to weaken these standards.
          ``Following the fatal Colgan Air crash in 2009, Congress 
        unanimously passed the Airline Safety and FAA Extension Act in 
        2010, which mandated new pilot experience, training, and 
        qualification requirements. Now, special interests in 
        Washington are seeking to weaken these safety requirements so 
        they can hire less qualified aviators for lower pay and 
        benefits.
          ``The current pilot training and qualification requirements 
        have led to a 99.8 percent reduction in airline passenger 
        fatalities since their enactment in 2010. In the two preceding 
        decades there were more than 1,100 passenger fatalities.
          ``The United States is the gold standard for aviation safety. 
        We cannot afford to go backwards on safety and endanger the 
        lives of the flying public.''

                                 # # #


                                Appendix

                              ----------                              


 Question from Hon. Greg Stanton to Faye Malarkey Black, President and 
         Chief Executive Officer, Regional Airline Association

    Question 1. The FAA has acknowledged it is experiencing an air 
traffic controller shortage and to address it, at least in the short-
term, has asked the airlines to reduce flights in some of the nation's 
busiest airspace to avoid delays and cancellations during the peak 
summer season. Can you discuss how the airlines are being impacted by 
the shortage of air traffic controllers?
    Answer. Another workforce shortage that is constraining the 
regional airline industry is the shortage of air traffic controllers. 
The controller workforce must be adequately staffed to minimize delays 
and disruptions to passengers. This summer, the FAA asked all major 
airlines to reduce service by 10 percent at LaGuardia, Kennedy, and 
Reagan National Airport because of a controller shortage at the New 
York Terminal Radar Approach Control (NY TRACON) facility. As of 2022, 
regional airlines were responsible for 52 percent of the departures at 
Reagan, 46 percent of the departures at LaGuardia, and 18 percent of 
the departures at Kennedy. To compensate for these cuts, major airlines 
have decreased the number of regional aircraft flights to transport the 
same or more passengers on mainline narrowbody aircraft. This is the 
same response that major carriers have taken with the pilot shortage, 
and like the pilot shortage, the impact of the controller shortage at 
the NY TRACON will fall disproportionately on passengers from small 
communities. These passengers will endure reduced convenience, and more 
frustration and hardship when disruptions and delays occur amidst fewer 
flight options to set things right.

Question from Hon. Greg Stanton to Sharon B. DeVivo, Ed.D., President, 
                             Vaughn College

    Question 1. The drone industry is expected to create a large number 
of new manufacturing, software, and pilot jobs, but it is also expected 
to change the current workforce. To help build the next generation 
workforce and upskill our existing one, I have focused on establishing 
a federal grant program to support the higher education institutions 
that have been designated under the FAA's UAS Collegiate Training 
Initiative. What role can new airspace entrants, such as drones and 
advanced air mobility, play in helping the U.S. build and maintain a 
strong pipeline of aviation professionals?
    Answer. Thank you for the opportunity to answer this great 
question. New airspace entrants should connect to their local community 
colleges, Minority-Serving Institutions, and other colleges and 
universities to become part of their Industry Advisory Councils (IAC). 
IACs help influence curriculum and program/certificate/degree 
development. Most institutions have these, particularly as part of 
technical and/or engineering departments. Higher education wants and 
needs industry input to best prepare their students for the careers of 
the future. Those new entrants will want to consider employer 
engagement on campus through the career services office to raise 
awareness about their opportunities. These companies should consider 
internships, co-ops, job shadowing and apprenticeships also as 
awareness-building and a gateway to new talent. Congress could also 
``inspire'' this action by expanding funding for grant programs that 
require industry and higher education to work together on pathways that 
support emerging careers.
    Please feel free to reach out if I can provide further information 
or assistance.

Question from Hon. Greg Stanton to Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, Air 
                 Line Pilots Association, International

    Question 1. The FAA has acknowledged it is experiencing an air 
traffic controller shortage and to address it, at least in the short-
term, has asked the airlines to reduce flights in some of the nation's 
busiest airspace to avoid delays and cancellations during the peak 
summer season. What has been the impact on pilots of the air traffic 
controller shortage?
    Answer. The controller shortage has reduced our ability to operate 
aircraft in airspace and created visible strains on the safety of 
flights. Pilots rely on air traffic control to provide data, 
instructions, clearance for the airspace, support for takeoffs, 
landing, climbs and descents, among other valuable information. The 
lack of sufficient controllers impedes all of these core functions of 
flying. As such, we support the House FAA bill's inclusion of max 
hiring targets.

 Questions from Hon. Troy E. Nehls to Capt. Jason Ambrosi, President, 
               Air Line Pilots Association, International

    Question 1. ALPA provided statistics citing 9,491 new ATP 
certificates were issued in 2022. However, it is not clear whether 
these numbers represent a reliable trend that can be relied upon. It 
also appears that there are a large portion of foreign pilots who seek 
training in the U.S. and return to other countries to fly. The FAA has 
averaged approximately 6,700 ATP certificates per for the last 10 
years. Over the last 3 years, even with the spike seen in 2023, the 
average is still 1,652 below average. Does the number of ATP 
certificates issued in 2022 incorporate backlogs associated with 
training disruptions during the pandemic? Have these backlogs all been 
cleared? How many of the 2022 ATP certificates were issued to foreign 
pilots? Does ALPA have a position on the U.S. issuing visas to allow 
foreign pilots to fly on U.S. carriers?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 2. Captain Ambrosi, you stated that raising the pilot age 
limit will result in an excessive number of training cycles due to 
international age limits. However, not all pilots who are facing forced 
retirements are on widebody international routes--a large portion are 
already flying domestic routes that would not result in disruptions or 
additional training. Further, many widebody aircraft fly both domestic 
and international routes, and automated scheduling algorithms can 
easily accommodate scheduling pilots over 65 on domestic-only routes. 
In the event that a pilot is forced to down bid to a domestic only 
aircraft, it would require as few as 2 training events for all 
positions to be filled. In contrast, if the same pilot retires, up to 
13 training events are triggered due to pilots bidding up, further 
exacerbating training backlogs. Therefore, raising the pilot age would 
actually reduce the number of training cycles. What proportion of 
pilots who will be forced to retire over the next two years are 
currently flying domestic-only aircraft? What proportion of widebody 
routes are domestic? If ALPA's argument is that training slots should 
be reserved for pilots who will be in the system longer, should 
Congress consider raising the age limit to 70 or higher to add 
additional benefit?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 3. This past fall, the International Air Transport 
Association--representing more than 300 airlines around the world that 
are responsible for more than 84% of air transport--requested that ICAO 
revisit raising age limits that constrain the ability of the aviation 
industry to recover from the pandemic and that represent unnecessary 
barriers to employment and serve as de facto discrimination. IATA 
further justified the request, stating, ``The continued upward trend in 
life expectancy, associated with a decline in the likelihood of sudden 
pilot incapacitation, together with extensive pilot incapacitation 
awareness training, the use of modern simulators to train and assess 
pilots' performance, and the increase and availability of flight deck 
automation are expected to have further reduced the residual risk of 
pilot incapacitation.'' While no timeframe for completion has been 
identified, ICAO has indicated that it is currently gathering best 
practices used by the nine member countries that currently allow flying 
above age 65 and will be considering these in conjunction with current 
performance and safety data. What evidence does ALPA have to support 
the statement that ICAO would require a multi-year study before it will 
consider raising age limits? As a Member State, can the U.S. request 
that ICAO consider a resolution to raise age limits at an international 
level?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 4. Due to the unprecedented number of forced age 65 
retirements affecting senior pilots at U.S. major airlines, carriers 
have increased hiring and promotion of pilots in record numbers. This 
has resulted in a number of pilots with only one year of experience 
being awarded Captain positions, including awards to widebody aircraft. 
Some of these pilots have limited experience as pilot-in-command of 
transport category aircraft. Does ALPA agree that there has been an 
increase in FSAP/ASAP incident reporting, and does ALPA consider this a 
safety concern? Given that there is a positive correlation between 
experience and safety--and that ALPA has stated that there is no 
substitute for experience--do younger, less experienced pilots provide 
a safer operating environment and less exposure to risk than 
experienced pilots who are between the ages of 60 and 67?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 5. During testimony, you made the statement that European 
regulators recommended against raising the age limits. This statement 
is false. The study ALPA cites was conducted by an outside 
organization, and the first page of the report states that the opinions 
expressed are those of the organization and that the ``views expressed 
in the study have not been adopted, endorsed, or in any way approved 
the European Aviation Safety Agency.'' Subsequent to the report, 
materials from an ICAO workshop held in May 2019 state that the 
European Aviation Safety Association (EASA) was considering an increase 
of the pilot age for multi-pilot CAT operations with additional tests 
to support aeromedical decisions about a pilot's fitness to fly on an 
individual basis. ``Next steps'' for moving forward were also 
identified. A final decision had not been made, and aviation operations 
were subsequently disrupted by the pandemic. A 2020 publication by one 
of the authors of the report states that standardized risk assessments 
identified in the study can be used to allow EU pilots to fly above age 
65 in multi-crew operations. What evidence does ALPA have that EASA 
currently opposes or has taken a formal position against raising the 
age limits above age 65 for pilots in multi-crew commercial operations?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 6. The report ALPA referenced did not state that raising 
the age limit for pilots in multi-crew operations on an incremental 
basis, such as from 65 to 67 or 65 to 70, would introduce a 
statistically significant level of risk. Is there any research that 
indicates there would be a statistically significant increase in risk 
associated with raising the pilot age limit from age 65 (current age 
limit) to age 67 (proposed age limit)?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 7. Has the FAA objected in any manner to raising the pilot 
age to 67?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.

    Question 8. The Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) has 
expressed a longstanding concern about any mandatory age limit for 
pilots under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967 (ADEA). 
In 2006, the EEOC supported legislation to raise the pilot age limit 
from age 60 to 65 for a ``specified time period'' and as an ``interim 
step'' toward ``eliminating age as a determinative factor in the 
employment of airline commercial pilots.'' In the 15 years since that 
legislation was passed, despite data showing that raising the age limit 
did not compromise safety, there has been no movement toward aligning 
regulations regarding the age limit with Federal law.
    In the absence of data demonstrating a safety risk, and given the 
objective of Federal law under the Age Discrimination in Employment Act 
to prevent disadvantaging older workers in their efforts to retain 
employment and prevent setting arbitrary age limits that contribute to 
disadvantaging older workers, is ALPA willing to change its position 
and support an increase in the age limit for Part 121 pilots, as it did 
in 2007?
    Answer. A response was not received at the time of publication.
    
                                [all]