[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS: EXAMINING FED-
ERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL COORDINATION IN
COASTAL COMMUNITIES
=======================================================================
FIELD HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND TECHNOLOGY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
NOVEMBER 28, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-39
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Homeland Security
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov/
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-494 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
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COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee, Chairman
Michael T. McCaul, Texas Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi,
Clay Higgins, Louisiana Ranking Member
Michael Guest, Mississippi Sheila Jackson Lee, Texas
Dan Bishop, North Carolina Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey
Carlos A. Gimenez, Florida Eric Swalwell, California
August Pfluger, Texas J. Luis Correa, California
Andrew R. Garbarino, New York Troy A. Carter, Louisiana
Marjorie Taylor Greene, Georgia Shri Thanedar, Michigan
Tony Gonzales, Texas Seth Magaziner, Rhode Island
Nick LaLota, New York Glenn Ivey, Maryland
Mike Ezell, Mississippi Daniel S. Goldman, New York
Anthony D'Esposito, New York Robert Garcia, California
Laurel M. Lee, Florida Delia C. Ramirez, Illinois
Morgan Luttrell, Texas Robert Menendez, New Jersey
Dale W. Strong, Alabama Yvette D. Clarke, New York
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma Dina Titus, Nevada
Elijah Crane, Arizona
Stephen Siao, Staff Director
Hope Goins, Minority Staff Director
Sean Corcoran, Chief Clerk
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AND TECHNOLOGY
Anthony D'Esposito, New York, Chairman
Nick LaLota, New York Troy A. Carter, Louisiana, Ranking
Dale W. Strong, Alabama Member
Josh Brecheen, Oklahoma Donald M. Payne, Jr., New Jersey
Mark E. Green, MD, Tennessee (ex Daniel S. Goldman, New York
officio) Bennie G. Thompson, Mississippi
(ex officio)
Diana Bergwin, Subcommittee Staff Director
Lauren McClain, Minority Subcommittee Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Statements
The Honorable Anthony D'Esposito, a Representative in Congress
From the State of New York, and Chairman, Subcommittee on
Emergency Management and Technology:
Oral Statement................................................. 1
Prepared Statement............................................. 3
The Honorable Troy A. Carter, a Representative in Congress From
the State of Louisiana, and Ranking Member, Subcommittee on
Emergency Management and Technology:
Oral Statement................................................. 4
Prepared Statement............................................. 6
The Honorable Bennie G. Thompson, a Representative in Congress
From the State of Mississippi, and Ranking Member, Committee on
Homeland Security:
Oral Statement................................................. 7
Prepared Statement............................................. 9
Witnesses
Mr. Tony Robinson, Region 6 Administrator, Federal Emergency
Management Agency, U.S. Department of Homeland Security:
Oral Statement................................................. 10
Prepared Statement............................................. 12
Mr. Francisco Sanchez Jr., Associate Administrator, Office of
Disaster Recovery and Resilience, U.S. Small Business
Administration:
Oral Statement................................................. 15
Prepared Statement............................................. 16
Mr. Casey Tingle, Director, Governor's Office of Homeland
Security and Emergency Preparedness, State of Louisiana:
Oral Statement................................................. 18
Prepared Statement............................................. 20
Mrs. Pamela Gonzales Granger, President/Owner, McBade Engineers &
Consultants, LLC:
Oral Statement................................................. 24
Prepared Statement............................................. 25
EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS: EXAMINING FEDERAL, STATE, AND LOCAL
COORDINATION IN COASTAL COMMUNITIES
----------
Tuesday, November 28, 2023
U.S. House of Representatives,
Committee on Homeland Security,
Subcommittee on Emergency Management
and Technology,
New Orleans, LA.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 8:01 a.m. CST,
Millie M. Charles School of Social Work Auditorium, Southern
University at New Orleans, 6400 Press Drive, New Orleans,
Louisiana, Hon. Anthony D'Esposito (Chairman of the
subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives D'Esposito, Carter, and Thompson
(ex officio).
Mr. D'Esposito. Good morning. The Committee on Homeland
Security, Subcommittee on Emergency Management and Technology,
will come to order.
Without objection, the subcommittee may recess at any
point.
The purpose of this hearing is to examine disaster
mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery in coastal
communities. I thank Southern University at New Orleans and
Ranking Member Carter for hosting the subcommittee today.
I recognize myself for an opening statement.
I first want to begin by thanking our witnesses for
participating in this hearing today. I look forward to hearing
more about your work to help communities prepare for, respond
to, and recover from natural disasters and other events that
impact coastal communities. Thank you for your decision to work
in this field.
As a retired NYPD detective and former chief of the Island
Park Fire Department, I know that working in emergency
management isn't always glamorous, and it's often a thankless
job. But I want to tell you that your work and our work does
matter. Thank you for serving and for being on the front lines
in people's greatest times of need. We talked about it
yesterday. It brings out some of the very worst in people, but
individuals like you, it brings out the very best.
While we work hard to protect our communities from
environmental hazards, many of us have seen first-hand how
powerful hurricanes may leave unspeakable destruction in their
wake. In the aftermath of Superstorm Sandy, I was serving as
chief of my hometown in Island Park, and will never forget the
sense of dire need that followed. An estimated 100,000 homes
were damaged or destroyed on Long Island alone, but we worked
hand-in-hand, arm-in-arm with FEMA to rebuild our community.
As Members of the Subcommittee on Emergency Management and
Technology, it is important that we examine how State and local
governments coordinate with Federal agencies, such as FEMA and
the SBA, to help coastal communities mitigate the unique
challenges they face and prepare for potential emergencies.
When the scale of an emergency is beyond what a State can
handle, the Federal Government must coordinate effectively with
State officials and local first responders who are already on
the ground and who know their communities best.
I look forward to evaluating not only the Federal response
to natural disasters and FEMA's long-term recovery programs,
but also how local partners are collaborating to build
resiliency and mitigate the impacts of natural disasters.
Historic storms have become too common in recent years, and
coastal communities must consider how to harden their defenses
and become more resilient in anticipation of future storms. We
can't only focus on disaster recovery. We have to ensure that
our infrastructure is able to withstand the next storm. Doing
so will prevent continued destruction from happening.
It is estimated that for every $1 invested in hazard
mitigation, $6 is saved in disaster recovery. Billions of
Federal dollars have been appropriated for hazard mitigation
projects under Building Resilient Infrastructure and
Communities. I am pleased that there have been many efforts to
improve vulnerable communities' access to Federal grant
funding, and I look forward to learning more about how
Louisiana is utilizing these funds.
In fact, the enacted Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018
authorized FEMA to incentivize States to take responsibility
for their own emergency preparedness through allowing States
that proactively funded hazard mitigation before the disaster
to qualify for increased Federal funding after a disaster.
Considering how critical disaster preparedness and resiliency
are for coastal communities across the Nation, I hope to learn
more about resiliency projects in Louisiana and how communities
are taking advantage of opportunities available to them.
FEMA also hosts a multitude of preparedness grants, as well
as hazard mitigation assistance grants, to support first
responders and protect people and property from future
disasters in highly at-risk communities. These grants play an
important role in helping police and fire departments improve
public safety and strengthen communities' defenses against
extreme weather events.
Since State governments and local nonprofits are the first
to respond, States should maintain and strengthen their state
of preparedness to avoid becoming dependent on FEMA in the
aftermath of a storm. However, we must also ensure that Federal
assistance is available to those who truly need it most.
Should a catastrophic event occur in the future, effective
Federal, State, and local coordination is essential for our
National preparedness and response. As such, the Post-Katrina
Emergency Management Reform Act of 2006 was enacted
specifically to address failures during Hurricane Katrina and
to improve FEMA's role in our national emergency management and
training.
Earlier this year, this subcommittee heard from emergency
management professionals and practitioners about some of the
difficulties that survivors face in applying the individual
assistance and--for individual assistance. I look forward to
hearing about how we can simplify and improve vulnerable
communities' access to State-wide resources, as well as FEMA's
individual assistance program and SBA's disaster loan program
in the aftermath of storms.
I would like to know how we can make the process easier for
disadvantaged or vulnerable communities so that they can get
help they need. How can nonprofits, the private sector, and
State and local governments better serve their communities so
FEMA isn't left to pick up the tab? How are they using Federal
funds already available to them?
I hope to hear your input to these questions. I know that
coastal communities take care of one another. While living by
the coast can come at a cost, millions of Americans call these
communities their home. It is our duty to serve them well and
to ensure that they are prepared for whatever could come their
way.
Thank you again to the witnesses for being here this
morning, for your public service, and for serving this great
Nation.
[The statement of Chairman D'Esposito follows:]
Statement of Chairman Anthony D'Esposito
November 28, 2023
I first want to begin by thanking our witnesses for participating
in this hearing today. I look forward to hearing more about your work
to help communities prepare for, respond to, and recover from natural
disasters and other events that impact coastal communities. Thank you
for your decision to work in this field.
As a retired NYPD detective and former chief of the Island Park
Fire Department, I know that working in emergency management isn't
glamorous, and it's often a thankless job, but I want to tell you that
your work matters. Thank you for serving, and for being on the front
lines in peoples' greatest time of need.
While we work hard to protect our communities from environmental
hazards, many of us have seen first-hand how powerful hurricanes may
leave unspeakable destruction in their wake. In the aftermath of
Superstorm Sandy, I was serving as chief of the Island Park Fire
Department, and will never forget the sense of dire need that followed.
An estimated 100,000 homes were damaged or destroyed on Long Island
alone, but we worked hand-in-hand with the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) to rebuild our community.\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\1\ Madeline Armstrong, Long Beach residents recall Sandy horrors
10 years later, EYEWITNESS NEWS ABC7, (Oct. 26, 2022), https://
abc7ny.com/long-beach-sandy-superstorm-memories/12380694/
#:?:text=On%20Long%20Island%2C%20about%20100%2C000,and%2013-
%20people%20were%20killed.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
As Members of the Subcommittee on Emergency Management and
Technology, it is important that we examine how State and local
governments coordinate with Federal agencies, such as FEMA and the
Small Business Administration (SBA) to help coastal communities
mitigate the unique challenges they face and prepare for potential
emergencies. When the scale of an emergency is beyond what a State can
handle, the Federal Government must coordinate effectively with State
officials and local first responders who are already on the ground, and
who know their communities best.
I look forward to evaluating not only the Federal response to
natural disasters and FEMA's long-term recovery programs, but also how
local partners are collaborating to build resiliency and mitigate the
impacts of natural disasters. Historic storms have become too common in
recent years, and coastal communities must consider how to harden their
defenses and become more resilient in anticipation of future storms. We
can't only focus on disaster recovery; we have to ensure that our
infrastructure is able to withstand the next storm. Doing so will
prevent continued destruction from happening.
It is estimated that for every $1 invested in hazard mitigation, $6
are saved in disaster recovery.\2\ Billions of Federal dollars have
been appropriated for hazard mitigation projects under the Building
Resilient Infrastructure and Communities (BRIC) program. I am pleased
that there have been many efforts to improve vulnerable communities'
access to Federal grant funding, and I look forward to learning more
about how Louisiana is utilizing these funds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\2\ https://www.nibs.org/blog/disaster-resilience-trillion-dollar-
challenge-heres-what-fema-can-do-help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In fact, the enacted Bipartisan Budget Act of 2018 authorized FEMA
to incentivize States to take responsibility for their own emergency
preparedness through allowing States that proactively funded hazard
mitigation efforts before the disaster to qualify for increased Federal
funding after a disaster.\3\ Considering how critical disaster
preparedness and resiliency are for coastal communities across the
Nation, I hope to learn more about resiliency projects in Louisiana and
how communities here are taking advantage of the opportunities
available to them.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\3\ https://www.nibs.org/blog/disaster-resilience-trillion-dollar-
challenge-heres-what-fema-can-do-help.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
FEMA also hosts a multitude of Preparedness Grants, as well as
Hazard Mitigation Assistance Grants, to support first responders and
protect people and property from future disasters in highly at-risk
communities. These grants play an important role in helping police and
fire departments improve public safety and strengthen communities'
defenses against extreme weather events.
Since State governments and local non-profits are the first to
respond, States should maintain and strengthen their state of
preparedness to avoid becoming dependent on FEMA in the aftermath of a
storm. However, we must also ensure that Federal assistance is
available to those who truly need it most.
Should a catastrophic event occour in the future, effective
Federal, State, and local coordination is essential for our National
preparedness and response. As such, the Post-Katrina Emergency
Management Reform Act (PKEMRA) of 2006 was enacted specifically to
address failures during Hurricane Katrina and to improve FEMA's role in
our National emergency management and training.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
\4\ https://www.fema.gov/emergency-managers/planning-exercises/nle/
background.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Earlier this year, this subcommittee heard from emergency
management professionals and practitioners about some of the
difficulties that survivors face in applying for Individual Assistance.
I look forward to hearing about how we can simplify and improve
vulnerable communities' access to State-wide resources, as well as
FEMA's Individual Assistance (IA) Program and SBA's Disaster Loan
Program in the aftermath of a severe storm.
I would like to know--how can we make the process easier for
disadvantaged communities so that they can get the help they need? How
can non-profits, the private sector, and State and local governments
better serve their communities so that FEMA isn't left to pick up the
tab? How are they using the Federal funds already available to them?
I hope to hear your input on these questions. I know that coastal
communities take care of one another; and while living by the coast can
come at a cost, millions of Americans call these communities their
home. It is our duty to serve them well and to ensure that they are
prepared for whatever could come their way. Thank you, again, to our
witnesses for your public service and for participating in this
hearing. And with that, I yield back.
Mr. D'Esposito. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the
subcommittee for his opening statement.
Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good morning. I want to welcome everyone to Louisiana's
Second Congressional District, my home. Today, we gather here
at Southern University-New Orleans to discuss the topic so many
New Orleanians are very, very familiar with, and that is
emergency preparedness.
I would like to thank Southern University staff and campus
community for hosting today's event. I'd also like to thank our
distinguished panel of witnesses here to share your expertise
to the subcommittee.
I want to thank Subcommittee Chair D'Esposito, for agreeing
to hold this hearing in a bipartisan fashion. I want to thank
Ranking Member Bennie Thompson of the entire Committee of
Homeland Security for being here. Thank you both for traveling
from your homes so close after the holidays to be here with us
for such an important hearing.
This is--today's hearing is to learn more about the
challenges and the successes of emergency preparedness in my
district. I see in the audience we have a whole host of
individuals, and I thank you for being here.
I want to particularly recognize the council member whose
district we're in, Council Member Eugene Green of District 8.
Thank you for being here, sir.
New Orleans is at ground zero for so much of the
conversation on emergency preparedness. Hurricane Katrina was
one of the worst natural disasters in recent memory in the
United States. Hurricane Katrina was followed by Hurricane Rita
just a few weeks later. The hurricanes resulted in loss of life
and property damage. In the aftermath of the hurricanes, the
response efforts were scrutinized, and many policies were
changed for the better.
There have been many other disasters to hit my district
too, including Hurricanes Ike and Ida and the historic
floodings of August 2016. Because of these disasters, we have a
better understanding of the importance of Federal, State,
local, and Tribal territorial officials prioritizing emergency
resources, emergency preparedness to ensure that our
communities are equipped to respond to disasters quickly and
recover with dignity.
The threat posed by climate change makes the conversation
on preparedness even more important. The effects of climate
change are being felt worldwide, which includes more frequent
and severe natural disasters, like hurricanes, droughts, and
wild fires.
At the Federal level, investment in mitigation strategies
have become a priority for the Federal Emergency Management
Agency, FEMA. I am pleased that the Biden-Harris administration
has announced nearly $2 billion in grant funding to help
communities mitigate the impacts of climate change.
Flooding has increasingly become a concern in Louisiana,
contributing to the increasing costs of flood insurance
policies. Louisianians rely on the National Flood Insurance
Program, NFIP, to offer reasonably-priced coverage. However,
FEMA's new Risk Rating 2.0 system guts that program and causes
great challenges. We'll hear more about that today.
Risk Rating 2.0 result in a 134 percent average increase in
flood insurance costs for single family homes in Louisiana,
phased in over time. This policy will leave many Louisianians
vulnerable to extreme weather events because they simply cannot
afford to pay these exorbitant costs for flood insurance.
Another concern facing my constituents is Small Business
Administration loans. Many of my constituents own businesses,
and when disasters strike, they have to take out a loan to make
the repairs and stay afloat. Unfortunately, some of the small
businesses are still paying loans from years and disasters past
while we continue to face additional storms and natural
disasters and having to face the struggles of yet--depending on
yet another SBA loan.
I hope to hear from our witnesses today about how we are
working to make sure that flood insurance does not become a
luxury that only a few can afford and ways that we can help
small businesses literally stay afloat.
Since the terrorist acts of 9/11, emergency preparedness
has also included providing Federal resources for combating
threats and acts of violence. The Department of Homeland
Security's Preparedness Grant Program, which includes Urban
Area Security Initiatives, State Homeland Security Programs,
and the Nonprofit Security Grant Program, which helps
communities prepare for and address threats.
In 2022, Southern University campus in Baton Rouge is one
of the many Historically Black Colleges and Universities across
the country that was targeted with a bomb threat. Making sure
that the DHS preparedness grants reach HBCUs and other targeted
places is essential.
I am proud to advocate for DHS's preparedness grants, and
hope to hear from our witnesses today on how these programs are
helping Louisianians.
Last, I would like to emphasize, as we continue to face
more frequent and severe emergencies, it is becoming
increasingly clear that our emergency management systems need
to prioritize equity. Vulnerable populations are often hit the
hardest by disasters and oftentimes receive disproportionate
amount of resources.
Building equity into emergency management means ensuring
that all individuals and communities have equal access to
resources and support before, during, and after the disaster.
This not only helps to prevent further harm, but it also
strengthens overall resiliency.
In May, I joined Ranking Member Thompson as the co-chair of
the first-ever Congressional Disaster Equity and Building
Resilience Caucus. The caucus aims to promote equity in
disaster preparedness and response and provide valuable forums
to discuss Federal policies that impact the underserved
communities in the face of disasters.
Again, I want to thank Southern University, SUNO, for
hosting our witnesses and participating in today's hearing and
my colleagues for making time to be here in my district.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I look forward to hearing from our
witnesses today on how we can continue to build and support
emergency preparedness for all of Louisianians.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
[The statement of Ranking Member Carter follows:]
Statement of Ranking Member Troy A. Carter
November 28, 2023
I want to welcome everyone to Louisiana's Second Congressional
District--my home.
Today, we are gathered at Southern University at New Orleans (SUNO)
to discuss a topic so many New Orleanians are very familiar with and
that is emergency preparedness. I would like to thank the Southern
University staff and campus community for hosting today's hearing.
I want to thank our distinguished panel of witnesses here to share
your expertise with the subcommittee. I want to thank Subcommittee
Chairman D'Esposito for agreeing to hold today's hearing. I, also, want
to thank all my colleagues for coming to today's hearing to learn more
about the challenges and successes of emergency preparedness in my
District.
New Orleans is ground zero for so much of the conversation on
emergency preparedness. Hurricane Katrina was one of the worst natural
disasters in the recent memory of the United States. Hurricane Katrina
was followed by Hurricane Rita just a few weeks later. The hurricanes
resulted in loss of life and property damage. In the aftermath of the
hurricanes, the response efforts were scrutinized and many policies
were changed for the better.
There have been many other disasters to hit my District, too,
including Hurricanes Ike and Ida, and the historic flooding in August
2016. Because of these disasters, we have a better understanding of the
importance of Federal, State, local, Tribal, and territorial officials
prioritizing emergency preparedness to ensure that our communities are
equipped to respond to disasters quickly and recover with dignity.
The threat posed by climate change makes the conversation on
preparedness even more important. The effects of climate change are
being felt worldwide, which includes more frequent and severe natural
disasters like hurricanes, droughts, and wildfires. At the Federal
level, investment in mitigation strategies have become a priority for
the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). I am pleased that the
Biden administration recently announced nearly $2 billion in grant
funding to help communities mitigate the impacts of climate change.
Flooding has increasingly become a concern in Louisiana,
contributing to the increasing costs of flood insurance policies.
Louisianians rely on the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) to
offer reasonably-priced coverage. However, FEMA's new Risk Rating 2.0
system, cuts program. Risk Rating 2.0 will result in a 134 percent
average increase in flood insurance costs for single-family homes in
Louisiana, phased in over time. This policy will leave many
Louisianians vulnerable to extreme weather events because they cannot
afford to pay for flood insurance.
Another concern facing my constituents is Small Business
Administration loans. Many of my constituent's own businesses, and when
disasters strike, they have to take out loans to make repairs and stay
afloat. Unfortunately, some of the small businesses are still paying
loans years after a disaster strikes. I hope to hear from our witnesses
today about how you are working to make sure that flood insurance does
not become a luxury that only few can afford and ways to help our small
businesses.
Since the terrorists' attacks of 9/11, emergency preparedness has
also included providing Federal resources for combatting threats and
acts of violence. The Department of Homeland Security's preparedness
grant programs, which include the Urban Area Security Initiative
(UASI), State Homeland Security Program (SHSP), and the Nonprofit
Security Grant Program (NSGP), which help communities prepare for and
address threats.
In 2022, the Southern University campus in Baton Rouge was one of
many Historically Black Colleges or Universities (HBCUs) across the
country that was targeted with a bomb threat. Making sure that the DHS
preparedness grants reach HBCUs and other targeted places is essential.
I am a proud advocate for the DHS preparedness grants and hope to hear
from our witnesses today how these programs are helping Louisianians.
Last, I would like to emphasize, as we continue to face more
frequent and severe emergencies, it is becoming increasingly clear that
our emergency management systems need to prioritize equity. Vulnerable
populations are often hit the hardest by disasters. Building equity
into emergency management means ensuring that all individuals and
communities have equal access to resources and support before, during,
and after a disaster. This not only helps to prevent further harm, but
also strengthens overall resilience. In May, I joined Ranking Member
Thompson as a co-chair of the first-ever Congressional Disaster Equity
and Building Resilience Caucus. The Caucus aims to promote equity in
disaster preparedness and response and provide a valuable forum to
discuss Federal policies that impact underserved communities in
disasters.
Again, I want to thank Southern University/SUNO for hosting, our
witnesses for participating in today's hearing, and my colleagues for
making time to learn about my district.
With that, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today on
how we can continue to build and support emergency preparedness for the
people of Louisiana.
Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
I now recognize the Ranking Member of the full committee
for his opening statement.
Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Good morning. I want to thank Ranking Member Troy Carter
for bringing the subcommittee to this Congressional district to
look at issues regarding emergency preparedness and how the
Federal Government can better support the needs of coastal
communities. Ranking Member Carter is a tireless advocate in
Washington, DC, for the people of the Second District of
Louisiana, and I'm glad to participate in this important
hearing.
I also say it's easy to come to New Orleans when you're
invited. So I'm glad to be back.
I want to thank Chairman D'Esposito for agreeing to hold
today's hearing. I know he represents a coastal district on
Long Island, New York, and I look forward to a productive
discussion on issues of shared interest. I'd also like to
express my appreciation to all the witnesses present here
today.
Finally, I'm pleased to be at Southern University in New
Orleans, a prominent Historically Black University. I'd like to
thank the university for hosting this hearing and its staff for
their hospitality. As a double HBCU graduate, I'm always happy
to come to an HBCU campus.
With that said, I want to turn to the topic of today's
hearing. Over the years, we've seen more frequent and powerful
storms which have caused billions of dollars in damage. In my
home State of Mississippi, each year since 1980, we have
averaged about 2.3 disasters crossing the billion dollar mark.
In 2005, both Mississippi and Louisiana were hit by one of
the worst natural disasters, Hurricane Katrina, which was then
followed by Hurricane Rita. The devastation and the lack of
proper emergency response by local, State, and Federal
officials during these disasters will forever be imprinted in
my mind. Thankfully, emergency management has significantly
improved since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, due in no small
part to actions taken based on lessons learned from those
storms.
More recently, tornados devastated my home district,
tragically killing 22 people. FEMA has been present and ready
to help at every step since the tornado, and we are thankful
for their assistance.
Disasters often hit vulnerable populations the hardest,
including low-income communities, rural areas, racial
minorities, Tribes, individuals with disabilities, seniors, and
children. Those with experience in disaster response are well
aware of the unequal treatment marginalized communities have
received during Hurricane Katrina. I hope to never see people
trapped, hungry, and fearing for their lives in the aftermath
of a disaster because local, State, and Federal officials
prioritize one group over another.
Fortunately, the Biden administration is doing more to
support communities like those in Louisiana and Mississippi,
which frequently faced unequal impacts of disasters. For
example, it has included equity as one of the main pillars of
FEMA's 2022 to 2026 strategic plan.
The Biden administration has also made long-needed policy
changes that increased accessibility of FEMA's programs, such
as expanding allowable ownership documentation to help disaster
survivors keep land that has been in the family for
generations.
As we face more frequent and severe emergencies, it is
critical that we prioritize equity. The lack of equitable
resources during a disaster is appalling, which is why I, along
with Representatives Carter, Titus, and Brian Higgins, created
the Congressional Disaster Equity and Building Resilience
Caucus. The caucus provides a valuable forum to discuss Federal
policies that impact underserved communities in disasters.
I'm eager to hear from our witnesses today on how we can
continue to support emergency preparedness for the people of
Louisiana.
With that, I thank Ranking Member Carter for having us in
his district today. I also thank Chairman D'Esposito for
holding the hearing, and the witnesses for joining us.
With that, I yield back, Mr. Chair.
[The statement of Ranking Member Thompson follows:]
Statement of Ranking Member Bennie G. Thompson
November 28, 2023
I want to thank Ranking Member Troy Carter for bringing the
subcommittee to his Congressional district to look at issues regarding
emergency preparedness and how the Federal Government can better
support the needs of coastal communities. Ranking Member Carter is a
tireless advocate in Washington, DC, for the people of the 2nd district
of Louisiana, and I'm glad to participate in this important hearing.
I also want to thank Chairman D'Esposito for agreeing to hold
today's hearing. I know he represents a coastal district on Long
Island, New York, and I look forward to a productive discussion on
issues of shared interest. I would also like to express my appreciation
to all the witnesses present here today.
Finally, I am pleased to be at the Southern University at New
Orleans, a prominent Historically Black University. I would like to
thank the university for hosting this hearing and its staff for their
hospitality.
With that said, I want to turn to the topic of today's hearing.
Over the years, we have seen more frequent and powerful storms, which
have caused billions of dollars in damage. In my home State of
Mississippi, each year since 1980, we have averaged about 2.3 disasters
crossing the billion-dollar mark.
In 2005, both Mississippi and New Orleans were hit by one of the
worst natural disasters, Hurricane Katrina, which was then followed by
Hurricane Rita. The devastation and the lack of proper emergency
response by local, State, and Federal officials during these disasters
will forever be imprinted in my mind. Thankfully, emergency management
has significantly improved since Hurricanes Katrina and Rita, due in no
small part to action taken based on lessons learned from those storms.
More recently, tornadoes devastated my district and tragically killed
22 people. FEMA has been present and ready to help at every step since
the tornado, and we are thankful.
Disasters often hit vulnerable populations the hardest--including
low-income communities, rural areas, racial minorities, Tribes,
individuals with disabilities, seniors, and children. Those with
experience in disaster response are well aware of the unequal treatment
marginalized communities received during Hurricane Katrina. I hope to
never see people trapped, hungry, and fearing for their lives in the
aftermath of a disaster because local, State, and Federal officials
prioritized one group over another.
Fortunately, the Biden administration is doing more to support
communities like those in Louisiana and Mississippi, which frequently
face unequal impacts of disasters. For example, it has included equity
as one of the main pillars in FEMA's 2022-2026 Strategic Plan. The
Biden administration has also made long-needed policy changes that
increase the accessibility of FEMA's programs, such as expanding
allowable ownership documentation to help disaster survivors keep land
that has been in their family for generations. As we face more frequent
and severe emergencies, it is critical that we prioritize equity.
The lack of equitable resources during a disaster is appalling,
which is why I, along with Representatives Carter, Titus, and Brian
Higgins, created the Congressional Disaster Equity and Building
Resilience Caucus. The caucus provides a valuable forum to discuss
Federal policies that impact underserved communities in disasters.
I am eager to hear from our witnesses today on how we can continue
to support emergency preparedness for the people of Louisiana.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you very much, Ranking Member
Thompson.
Other Members of the subcommittee are reminded that opening
statements may be submitted for the record.
I am very pleased, as we all mentioned, to have such an
important panel of witnesses this morning.
I ask that the witnesses please rise and raise your right
hand.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. D'Esposito. Let the record reflect that the witnesses
have answered in the affirmative.
I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses. Mr.
Tony Robinson serves as the regional administrator for FEMA's
Region 6, which oversees FEMA's efforts in Arkansas, Louisiana,
New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and 68 Federally-recognized Tribal
Nations within this geographic area. In this role, Mr. Robinson
has managed over $1 billion in grant funding each fiscal year
to assist Region 6 partners in preparing for and recovering
from disasters.
Mr. Francisco Sanchez Jr., serves as the associate
administrator for the U.S. Small Business Administration's
Office of Disaster Recovery and Resilience. An associate
administrator, Mr. Sanchez is responsible for supporting
America's 33 million small businesses, renters, and homeowners
to help them withstand or recover from natural disasters.
Mr. Casey Tingle has served as the director of the
Governor's Office of Homeland Security and Emergency
Preparedness for the State of Louisiana since 2021. In this
capacity, Director Tingle directs all aspects of the State's
homeland security emergency and disaster preparedness and
response, including billions of dollars in mitigation projects
to protect Louisiana communities.
Mrs. Pamela Granger is a licensed civil engineer in
Louisiana and Florida and has been a civil engineer for over 27
years. She is the president and owner of McBade Engineers &
Consultants, and brings a wealth of experience in managing
large civil works projects for local, State, and Federal
clients throughout the Gulf Coast.
I thank the witnesses for being here today and, again,
thank you for your service to our coastal communities in this
region.
I now recognize Region 6 Administrator Robinson for 5
minutes to summarize his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF TONY ROBINSON, REGION 6 ADMINISTRATOR, FEDERAL
EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT AGENCY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY
Mr. Robinson. Good morning, Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking
Member Carter, and Congressman Thompson. Thank you for the
opportunity to join you today to discuss the mission of the
Federal Emergency Management Agency.
I'm Tony Robinson, regional administrator for FEMA Region
6. I've been with FEMA since 1987, and I'm responsible for
covering Arkansas, Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Texas, and
the 68 Federally-recognized Tribal Nations within this
geographic area.
FEMA has a powerful mission: Helping people before, during,
and after disasters. In recent years, carrying out that mission
has become more challenging and complex as we now face
intensified natural disasters throughout the year, often in
communities not used to experiencing them.
In the face of this new reality, it is more important than
ever that we break the cycle of disaster damage and
reconstruction. We must focus on being better prepared,
resilient, and vigilant against these ever-increasing threats.
Under Administrator Criswell's leadership, with bipartisan
support in Congress, and in close collaboration with Federal,
State, local, Tribal, and territorial governments, community-
based organizations, and the private sector, FEMA is leading
the way toward greater resilience.
FEMA is not only a response recovery agency, we also work
to mitigate the worst impacts of disasters before they occur.
Hazard mitigation saves lives, results in less complex disaster
recoveries, and can help us break the disaster cycle. That is
why we appreciate Congress' support in authorizing and funding
the Safeguarding Tomorrow Revolving Loan Fund as another
mechanism for FEMA to increase the resiliency of our Nation by
providing new types of financial support to our State, local,
Tribal, and territorial partners.
On September 12, 2023, FEMA awarded the first round of
storm funding to Louisiana to kick start a loan program to help
communities reduce their vulnerability to natural hazards and
disasters. FEMA awarded Louisiana $6.9 million, the highest
among the 8 recipients.
FEMA's Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities
grant program has also proven to be a very effective tool for
mitigation efforts. To date, FEMA has allocated nearly $4
billion in grant funding to States, local communities, Tribal
nations, and territories to undertake hazard mitigation
projects.
BRIC is being made more accessible to communities that are
most at risk and most in need through the implementation of the
Community Disaster Resilience Zone Act of 2022. FEMA announced
the first set of zones in September that designate high-risk
disadvantaged communities, allowing them to receive up to 90
percent Federal cost share for projects primarily benefiting
those zones.
Here in Louisiana, Jefferson Parish was selected for a
project to harden power infrastructure to protect residents,
essential businesses, and emergency services providers from
hurricane-force winds, as well as upgrade poles and wire to
withstand 150-mile-per-hour winds and lightning strikes. When
completed, this project is expected to save lives by keeping
the power on to communities even during severe weather events.
In Plaquemines Parish, where the historic community of
Ironton experienced devastating flooding levels as high as 12
to 14 feet during Hurricane Ida, our BRIC Direct Technical
Assistance Program is working with communities to develop an
application that would identify solutions to improve the
community's drainage system during future events.
As the committee knows, disaster recovery is often complex,
painstaking, and takes a long time. Preparing our communities
to recover quicker when disasters happen is part of building a
resilient Nation. FEMA, in partnership with the U.S. Department
of Housing and Urban Development, established the first of its
kind pre-disaster State housing planning initiative designed to
assist participating States in developing or maturing their
pre-disaster housing strategy. I would like to commend
Louisiana for being one of the first 4 States to join this new
initiative.
Under Administrator Criswell's leadership, we have taken
concrete steps to simplify and create more equitable solutions
through the individual assistance program. In 2021, we expanded
methods of ownership verification for homeowners whose
properties had been handed down informally through generations,
as well as expanding methods of occupancy verification for
owners and renters. As a result, in 2022, an additional $348
million of assistance went to more than 78,000 renters. An
additional $444 million went to more than 57,000 homeowners.
FEMA is also in the process of making it easier for
survivors to apply for disaster assistance with the on-line
application available on DisasterAssistance.gov. Instead of
requiring survivors to answer questions for every possible
program, we're shifting to a tailored, needs-based assessment
process. The new process will improve the customer experience
and reduce the burden for applicants by providing a more
intuitive application process.
There is still much more to do to build a more resilient
America, but FEMA is well-positioned to address the increasing
range and complexities of disasters, support the diversity of
communities we serve, and meet our Nation's growing
expectations of the agency. We appreciate and continue to need
Congress' support as we execute our mission of helping people
before, during, and after disasters.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify, and I look
forward to answering your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Robinson follows:]
Prepared Statement of Tony Robinson
November 28, 2023
Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking Member Carter, and the Members of the
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to join you today to
discuss the mission of the Federal Emergency Management Agency. I am
Tony Robinson, regional administrator for FEMA Region 6. I have been
with FEMA since 1987 and am responsible for covering Arkansas,
Louisiana, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Texas.
FEMA has a powerful mission: Helping people before, during, and
after disasters. In recent years, carrying out that mission has become
more challenging and complex. We can no longer speak of a disaster
``season.'' From atmospheric rivers in January to tornados and
wildfires in December, we now face intensified natural disasters
throughout the year, often in places not used to experiencing them. In
just the last several months, we have seen disasters ranging from
record flooding in Vermont, to the Nation's deadliest fire in over a
century occurring on the island of Maui, to the first tropical cyclone
to make landfall in California since 1938, and the impact of three
hurricanes on the Gulf Coast of Florida over the last year.
In the face of this new reality, it is more important than ever
that we break the cycle of disaster damage and reconstruction. Instead,
we must focus on being better prepared, resilient, and vigilant against
these ever-increasing threats. Under Administrator Criswell's
leadership, with bipartisan support in Congress, and in close
collaboration with Federal, State, local, Tribal, and territorial
governments, community-based organizations, and the private sector,
FEMA is leading the way toward greater resilience.
FEMA is not only a response and recovery agency. We also work to
mitigate the worst impacts of disasters before they occur. Hazard
mitigation saves lives, results in less complex disaster recoveries,
and can help us break the disaster cycle.
For example, FEMA is implementing a National strategy to
incentivize the adoption of disaster-resistant building codes. We know
that one of the most important ways to build resilience across our
country, and save lives, is through adoption of hazard-resistant
building codes. Communities that have adopted more modern, more
resilience-focused building codes have avoided an estimated $32 billion
in losses from natural disasters across the country since the year 2000
alone, which could translate into over $130 billion in savings by 2040.
According to the fiscal year 2023 Q4 Building Code Adoption Tracking
(BCAT) database, only 31 percent of jurisdictions have adopted the
current (2021) or next most recent (2018) hazard-resistant building
codes. That would mean that slightly more than 2 out of 3 communities
in the United States have not adopted current hazard-resistant building
codes, which represents roughly 177 million people at high risk from
the growing impacts of natural disasters who do not reside in
communities with hazard-resistant building codes. We must close that
gap.
We recognize that many mitigation projects are expensive, and
financing the construction of these projects is very challenging for
communities. That is why we appreciate Congress' support in authorizing
and funding the Safeguarding Tomorrow Revolving Loan Fund (STORM RLF)
as another mechanism which FEMA is using to increase the resiliency of
our Nation by providing new types of financial support to our State,
local, Tribal, and territorial (SLTT) partners. STORM RLF provides
capitalization grants to States, eligible Federally-recognized Tribes,
and territories to establish revolving loan funds from which they will
provide low-interest loans to local governments to undertake mitigation
projects and activities that will reduce their risks from natural
hazards and disasters. At least 40 percent of the loans are expected to
be directed to small or under-resourced communities, as we know that
access to traditional grant funding is a significant barrier that
small, rural, and other communities with limited capacity face when
seeking to undertake mitigation projects.
On September 12, 2023, FEMA awarded the first round of STORM RLF
funding to Louisiana, 6 other States, and the District of Columbia. A
combined $50 million in grant funding will kick-start 8 loan programs
to help communities reduce their vulnerability to natural hazards and
disasters. FEMA awarded Louisiana $6.9 million, the highest amount
among the 8 selected recipients. FEMA expects to make available for
competition additional STORM RLF funding in 2024.
FEMA's Building Resilient Infrastructure and Communities (BRIC)
grant program has also proven to be a very effective tool for
mitigation efforts. To date, FEMA has allocated nearly $4 billion in
grant funding to States, local communities, Tribal nations, and
territories to undertake hazard mitigation projects. Following the
fiscal year 2022 BRIC National competition, FEMA selected 124 projects
across 115 communities. The selections span all 10 FEMA regions,
including 38 States, one Tribe, and the District of Columbia.
BRIC is being made more accessible to communities that are the most
at risk and most in need through the implementation of the Community
Disaster Resilience Zones Act of 2022. FEMA announced the first set of
Zones in September that designate high-risk disadvantaged communities
to receive up to 90 percent Federal cost share for projects primarily
benefiting these Zones.
Here in Louisiana, Jefferson Parish was selected for a project to
harden power infrastructure to protect residents, essential businesses,
and emergency service providers from hurricane-force winds, as well as
upgrade poles and wire to withstand 150-mph winds and lightning
strikes. When completed, this project is expected to result in
interruption and restoration cost savings of over $150 million in the
next 50 years and, more importantly, will save lives by keeping the
power on to communities even during severe weather events.
In Plaquemines Parish, where the historic community of Ironton
experienced devasting flood levels as high as 12-14 feet during
Hurricane Ida, our BRIC Direct Technical Assistance Program is working
with the community to develop a fiscal year 2024 application that would
identify solutions to improve the community's drainage system during
future events.
As the committee knows, disaster recovery is often complex,
painstaking, and takes a long time. A part of building a resilient
nation is also preparing our communities to recover quicker when
disasters happen. FEMA just completed the first cohort of one of its
new initiatives to help communities prepare for recovery in partnership
with U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD). Together
we established a first-of-its-kind Pre-Disaster State Housing Planning
Initiative designed to assist participating States in developing or
maturing their pre-disaster housing strategy. Over the course of
several months, with technical assistance from FEMA and HUD,
participating States identified their existing housing stock in the
State and localities, documented current and potential strategies for
temporary and permanent housing options to be pursued after a disaster,
while simultaneously creating strategies to provide resilient,
affordable housing to survivors as soon as possible after an event. I
would like to commend Louisiana for being one of the first 4 States
across the Nation to join this new initiative.
With regard to individuals and families, under Administrator
Criswell's leadership, we have taken concrete steps to simplify and
create more equitable solutions for assistance through our Individual
Assistance (IA) program that have led to real, and tangible positive
impacts for disaster survivors. In 2021, we expanded methods of
ownership verification for homeowners whose properties had been handed
down informally through generations, as well as expanding methods of
occupancy verification for owners and renters to prove the disaster-
damaged home was the primary residence. Both ownership and occupancy
verification also allow self-certification as a last resort due to
challenges with obtaining traditional forms of documentation. As a
result, in 2022, an additional $348 million dollars of assistance went
to more than 78,000 renters, and an additional $444 million dollars
went to more than 57,000 homeowners. Previously, these individuals
would have been denied FEMA assistance, complicating their recovery.
FEMA is also working to simplify our Public Assistance Program to
streamline the distribution of aid to communities. We are refining
information collection forms to enable applicants to complete project
applications on their own and reduce paperwork. By implementing the
requirements of the Small Project Efficient and Effective Disaster
Recovery (SPEED) Act, less information will be required for small
projects--projects less than $1 million--which will accelerate recovery
funds to these communities. To provide some perspective, approximately
94 percent of projects are small. The forms will also include questions
designed to better facilitate support for underserved communities.
We also changed how to calculate the threshold for property losses
for survivors to qualify for Direct Housing assistance, which ensures
more precise damage evaluations regardless of the size of the damaged
home. The previous calculations could disadvantage homeowners with more
modest homes, who might have suffered comparable damage to larger homes
but were receiving less assistance. The new calculation methodology is
more accurate in providing assistance that is proportionate to the
damage sustained.
FEMA also is in the process of making it easier for survivors to
apply for disaster assistance--beginning with the on-line application
available on DisasterAssistance.- gov. Instead of requiring survivors
to answer questions for every possible program, including for services
they don't need, we're shifting to a tailored, needs-based assessment
process. The new process will improve the customer experience and
reduce the burden for applicants by providing a more intuitive
application process. Notably, this deliverable fulfills an important
commitment of the DHS Secretary from Executive Order 14058, to ``design
and deliver a streamlined, on-line assistance application.''
FEMA has also contributed administrative data and staff
perspectives to cross-agency projects to improve the recovery
experience for people impacted by disasters. One effort focuses on
administrative burden analysis across the recovery experience, and the
other focuses on meeting survivors with a trauma-informed approach.
There is still much to do to build a more resilient America, but
FEMA is well-positioned to address the increasing range and complexity
of disasters, support the diversity of communities we serve, and meet
our Nation's growing expectations of the agency. We appreciate and
continue to need Congress' support as we execute our mission of helping
people before, during, and after disasters.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I look forward to
answering your questions.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Robinson.
I now recognize Associate Administrator Sanchez for 5
minutes to summarize his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF FRANCISCO SANCHEZ JR., ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR,
OFFICE OF DISASTER RECOVERY AND RESILIENCE, U.S. SMALL BUSINESS
ADMINISTRATION
Mr. Sanchez. Good morning, Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking
Members Carter and Thompson. I'm Francisco Sanchez, the
associate administrator of the Office of Disaster Recovery and
Resilience at SBA. On behalf of Administrator Isabel Casillas
Guzman and the entire agency, thank you for your support of our
disaster mission and also for convening this discussion on
Federal, State, and local coordination in coastal communities.
Being in a local role before joining SBA, it's precisely the
type of work that I've been engaged in for about the past two
decades.
In my career, emergency management started unexpectedly
with a storm on the Texas-Louisiana coast, has been defined by
storms on the Texas-Louisiana coast, and will likely end with a
storm on the Texas-Louisiana coast.
My first two official visits in this role were to Florida
and to here in Louisiana. I know from personal experience that
the representatives on this panel are collaborators at all
levels of government, and they represent the kind of
coordination and trusted coordination that comes from both the
opportunity and, quite frankly, the challenge of having to work
together so frequently.
The disaster enterprise at SBA fulfills one of the agency's
most important functions. Its mission is to provide affordable,
timely, and accessible financial assistance to businesses of
all sizes, private nonprofits, homeowners, and renters. The SBA
offers low-interest, long-term Federal loans for disaster
losses not covered by insurance. Our world-class team works
tirelessly to enhance our programs and resources, ensuring the
Nation's 33 million small businesses, along with countless
homeowners, renters, and nonprofits, can access recovery and
mitigation resources they need to rebuild in a way that's
stronger, smarter, and more resilient.
Twenty-twenty-two set a record. The United States
experienced 18 separate weather and climate disasters, each
costing more than a billion dollars. Fast-forward to this year,
we are, unfortunately, breaking even more records.
In 2023, as of early November, there have been 25 confirmed
disaster events with losses each exceeding a billion dollars in
the United States. At the end of 2023 fiscal year, SBA was
involved in 405 disaster declarations across this country. This
morning, SBA is on the ground in 31 disasters across 24 States,
2 territories, and nearly 170 counties or parishes across this
country.
Under the Biden-Harris administration, SBA has approved
more than 105,000 loans, resulting in excess of $5.9 billion in
low-interest loan disaster lending in the hands of survivors--
disaster survivors to help them to rebuild and recover.
To be clear, this year has involved a wildfire on a
tropical island in the Pacific and a hurricane making landfall
across a California desert.
We're in New Orleans today, but the tropical storms are not
the only threat to coastal communities as the climate changes.
This year, Louisiana faced multiple disasters related to
wildfire. The most substantial of these fires, the Tiger Island
fire in Beauregard Parish, stands as perhaps one of the largest
wildfires recorded in the State's history.
Simultaneously, the threat of tropical cyclones only
persists--not only persists but is also growing. In 2020,
Louisiana experienced 5 direct tropical cyclone landfalls,
setting the record for the highest number for any single State
in a hurricane season.
Under Administrator Guzman's leadership, the SBA announced
major changes to its disaster lending program. For the first
time in 30 years, SBA increased loan limits for a homeowner's
primary residence from $200,000 to $500,000, and we increased
limits for personal property, such as clothing, furniture,
appliances, and automobiles, from $40,000 to $100,000. To give
homeowners and businesses time to recover from a disaster,
SBA's initial deferment period went from 5 months to 12 months
and deferred interest for those 12 months as well.
To improve customer experience, SBA launched the MySBA Loan
Portal in February 2023, allowing users to use a single login
across multiple programs across SBA for managing their loans,
programs like our small business vet certification, or our
VetCert program, and now a new on-line disaster assistance
application that will ease the burden on disaster survivors and
expedite how quickly we can get money into their hands. This
effort aligns with an important commitment of Administrator
Guzman in Executive Order 14058 that directs us to design and
deliver a streamlined on-line disaster assistance application
experience. These steps are important, but preparedness starts
before disaster.
So as I close, I will highlight that SBA has extended its
assistance for its mitigation programs to help them prepare for
disasters to come. This year, SBA changed the final rule.
Before, you could only use mitigation lending for the disaster
type you just faced. Now you can mitigate against any type of
hazard that you're facing in your community. That common-sense
solution will help us be more resilient moving ahead.
So, Chairman, thank you so much for the opportunity, and
Members, and the invitation to be here.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sanchez follows:]
Prepared Statement of Francisco Sanchez
November 28, 2023
Thank you for the invitation to discuss the Small Business
Administration's (SBA's) response to major disasters and explore
disaster mitigation, preparedness, response, and recovery and State,
Tribal, and local coordination efforts with our Federal partners. Good
afternoon, Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking Member Thompson, Rep. Carter,
and distinguished committee Members. I am Francisco Sanchez, the
associate administrator for the Office of Disaster Recovery and
Resilience (ODR&R) at the SBA. On behalf of Administrator Isabel
Casillas Guzman, and the entire agency, I want to express our deep
appreciation for your support of our disaster assistance mission and
commitment to ensuring the Federal Government stands ready to aid our
communities in their preparedness and recovery efforts.
With decades of experience in emergency management, I've had the
privilege of working on some of the Nation's largest security events,
including 2 Super Bowls and 3 World Series. I've also been involved in
local coordination for multiple National special security events. Prior
to joining SBA, I served as the Deputy Homeland Security and Emergency
Management Coordinator for the Harris County Office of Homeland
Security & Emergency Management in Texas, which is the third-largest
county in the United States. Harris County includes the city of Houston
and, during my tenure in public service, we responded to historically
catastrophic hurricanes like Katrina, Rita, Ike, and Harvey. We dealt
with extreme natural events, ranging from wildfires that burned
thousands of acres, to historic flooding, to rainstorms that dumped 16
inches of rain on our community in less than 12 hours. Recently, Harris
County averaged one Presidentially-declared disaster every 9 months.
Since my transition to the Federal Government in January 2022, I
have been leading ODR&R at the SBA. I am now more confident than ever
that the disaster enterprise fulfills one of the agency's most
important functions. Its mission is to provide affordable, timely, and
accessible financial assistance to businesses of all sizes, private
non-profit organizations, homeowners, and renters following a declared
disaster. The SBA offers low-interest, long-term Federal loans for
disaster losses not covered by insurance. Our world-class team works
tirelessly to enhance our programs and resources, ensuring that
America's 33 million small businesses, along with countless homeowners
and renters, can access the recovery and mitigation resources they need
to rebuild stronger, smarter, and more resiliently.
We are actively addressing climate change and community
preparedness through the Mitigation Assistance Option for Disaster
Loans, which has become a critical resource for individuals and
businesses impacted by disasters. In 2022, the United States declared
18 separate weather and climate disasters, exceeding $1 billion in
damages. In 2023 alone, SBA has addressed a range of major disasters
across the country--from wildfires in Hawaii, to Hurricane Idalia that
severely damaged the southern States of Florida and Georgia, to
flooding in Vermont--each time responding swiftly and adjusting to
needs on the ground. SBA is currently involved in 31 disaster
declarations across the Nation. We have active declarations in 17
States. Even after a disaster declaration closes, our personnel remains
on the ground to assist. To date, we have staff in 7 States, 2
territories, and 172 counties/parishes to help process closed cases.
Under the Biden-Harris administration we have accepted 285,341
applications and approved 105,748 requests, resulting in $5,994,586,670
in lending.
We are in New Orleans today to discuss disaster mitigation,
preparedness, response, and recovery and State, Tribal, and local
coordination efforts with their Federal partners.
According to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's
National Centers for Environmental Information, Louisiana ranks third
nationally in terms of total costs from Federally-declared disasters
exceeding $1 billion. Between 1980 and 2023, Louisiana has reported
damages of around $300 billion.
Texas ranks first nationally in damages with an estimated $300
billion to $400 billion. Florida follows closely in second place with
damages ranging from $300 billion to $390 billion over the same 43-year
period.
This year Louisiana has faced multiple disasters related to
wildfire. From August to October 2023, Louisiana faced a series of
wildfires that consumed more than 60,000 acres (94 sq mi), and forced
evacuations in several towns, including Merryville and Singer. The most
substantial of these fires, the Tiger Island fire in Beauregard Parish,
stands as the largest wildfire recorded in the State, burning over
50,000 acres of land.
These fires, which began on August 22, 2023, resulted in at least
441 wildfires across 17 parishes and led to the destruction of at least
21 buildings, prompting the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)
to approve an assistance grant in Beauregard Parish, Louisiana.
Over the past decade, Louisiana has faced several tropical cyclone
events, including the landfall of 3 Category 3+ hurricanes, along with
a series of significant flooding events. In 2020, Louisiana experienced
5 direct tropical cyclone landfalls, setting a record for the highest
number for any State in a single hurricane season.
In March and August 2016, prolonged rainfall resulted in flooding
across the State of Louisiana. In August 2016, 7-day rainfall rates
reached over 2 feet in some of the most deluged areas. For the 2 events
combined, in Louisiana, over 42,600 applications were received, with
19,900 approvals totaling $1.37 billion. For the March 2016 severe
storms and flooding, SBA opened 55 physical centers in the State. For
the August 2016 severe storms and flooding, SBA opened 51 centers.
On August 27, 2020, Hurricane Laura made landfall in Cameron
Parish, Louisiana as a Category 4 hurricane, with maximum sustained
winds of 150 mph and storm surge of up to 18 feet. After the
Presidential disaster declaration, SBA went to work to help the
community rebuild. We approved more than 10,600 loans for $613 million.
SBA opened 1 physical center and 3 virtual centers.
On August 29, 2021, Hurricane Ida made landfall at Port Fourchon,
Louisiana (Lafourche Parish) as a Category 4 hurricane, with maximum
sustained winds of 150 mph and storm surge of up to 13 feet. SBA's
disaster lending team approved 26,000 loans for $1.31 billion. SBA
opened 76 physical centers and 3 virtual centers.
With 2023's hurricane season ending on November 30, now is the time
to build resiliency and make the investments to survive the next storm.
One of President Biden's top priorities has been to prepare America's
economy and our communities for the growing threats and challenges of a
changing global climate.
The SBA plays an important role in advancing this mission.
During Presidential disaster declarations, SBA staff co-locates
with FEMA-State Disaster Recovery Centers, providing one-on-one
assistance to applicants to begin the process of applying for financial
assistance to rebuild and recover. SBA also opens Business Recovery
Centers in the affected area to support business owners. Beyond
disaster loans, SBA works with our network of specialized Resource
Partners such as Small Business Development Centers, SCORE, and others
to provide technical assistance and support to help businesses reopen
their doors.
As a part of our Recovery and Outreach Strategy, SBA conducts
campaigns aimed at helping eligible individuals and businesses with
applying for an SBA loan. Whether that's seeking additional assistance
from SBA or identifying additional resources within our network, SBA is
committed to helping small businesses build capacity for disaster
preparedness, resilience, and long-term recovery. Because loans are a
complex financial transaction, SBA's outreach strategy focuses on
assisting eligible individuals and businesses that may not be familiar
with SBA's disaster loan program and applicants that were initially
declined. We provide reconsideration opportunities for businesses who
are declined and we conduct targeted outreach to encourage businesses
that were impacted by a disaster to apply for Economic Injury Disaster
Loan (EIDL) assistance.
Under Administrator Guzman's leadership, the SBA announced major
changes to its disaster lending program in July 2023. For the first
time in nearly 30 years, the SBA adjusted its loan limits, taking into
account rising construction costs to ensure that communities across
America have access to sufficient funding to rebuild homes, replace
personal property, and reopen businesses when disasters strike.
To adjust for current costs, SBA increased loan limits for a
homeowner's primary residence from $200,000 to $500,000. We increased
loan limits for personal property such as clothing, furniture,
appliances, automobiles, from $40,000 to $100,000.
To give homeowners and businesses time to recover from a disaster,
SBA increased the initial payment deferral period from 5 to 12 months.
To decrease cost of recovery for borrowers, interest on SBA disaster
loans does not begin to accrue for the first 12 months from the date
they receive the loan.
To improve customer experience, SBA launched the MySBA Loan Portal
in February 2023, allowing users to use a single login to access
multiple services including account management for loans, the Veteran
Small Business Certification (VetCert) program, and, most recently, a
new on-line disaster assistance application that eases the burden on
disaster survivors and expedites the availability of loan funds to
homeowners, renters, businesses, and nonprofit organizations recovering
from disasters. This effort aligns with an important commitment of
Administrator Guzman in Executive Order 14058, to ``design and deliver
a streamlined on-line disaster assistance application experience.''
These steps are important, but emergency preparedness starts before
disasters. Extended mitigation assistance from SBA is crucial beyond
the declared disaster event. Communities face multiple risks like
hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, wildfires, and earthquakes. Disaster
mitigation funds allow owners to build stronger and more resilient
defenses so that they can be prepared when the next disaster strikes.
Early this year, SBA published a final rule to allow property
owners to use mitigation loans to prepare for a range of disasters.
Previously, disaster loan funds were limited to solely to mitigate a
``similar'' disaster event that caused damage to their home or
business. If a borrower is affected by a fire, they can also access
funding to prepare for a flood or hurricane. This commonsense change
will allow our communities to be more resilient going forward.
Thank you for your support of SBA and our disaster recovery
mission. I look forward to our continued work together.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Sanchez.
I now recognize Director Tingle for his opening statement.
STATEMENT OF CASEY TINGLE, DIRECTOR, GOVERNOR'S OFFICE OF
HOMELAND SECURITY AND EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, STATE OF
LOUISIANA
Mr. Tingle. Good morning. Thank you, Chairman D'Esposito,
Ranking Member Carter, Ranking Member Thompson, for inviting me
here today and for holding this important hearing. To the staff
and to SUNO for hosting us, thank you for your work as well.
I'm Casey Tingle, the director of the Governor's Office of
Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness for the State of
Louisiana, the State agency that's got lead responsibility for
the coordination of emergency management in the State.
The relationship between Federal, State, local emergency
management partners is critical. While each maintains separate
authorities and capabilities, we must connect and support one
another to effectively and timely save lives and property.
In Louisiana, just in Governor Edwards' 8-year term,
Louisiana has been impacted by roughly 250 local events that
involve some level of State coordination or support. Only 50 of
these were raised to the level of a State emergency
declaration, and over 20 of those were a Federal declaration.
The point there is simply that, while large events are
increasing and the demand on the Federal system is increasing,
the number of small events is also increasing. So the demands
that we see at the State and local level correspond to what we
have heard from our Federal partners. Every day somewhere local
partners are responding to some sort of an emergency event.
Often in Louisiana that is the case, and a number of these
events remain local events.
We've seen since Hurricane Katrina in 2005, much progress
in our response posture. I'm happy to report that. Our response
to a number of events, we've already heard, from 2020, 2021,
2016, hurricanes, floods bears that out. This coordination with
our key Federal partners and local partners is continuous. I
think that's important to note. It benefits from not just work
and exercise scenarios but in all of the real-world work that
we have done responding to numerous events.
I want to highlight on behalf of the State, the State of
Louisiana's investment in emergency management. In the most
recent legislative session, we were appropriated State funds so
that we could pass through an increase of $3 million every year
in emergency performance, management performance grant funding
to our parish partners, recognizing a significant increase to
them to build their local capacity.
Whether it's cyber response, whether it's building a new
shelter or warehouse capacity, or managing the first of its
kind State temporary housing program after Ida, the State of
Louisiana continues to increase its investment and role in
emergency management for our State.
I want to highlight the importance of the EMPG funding and
what it has meant for the State of Louisiana and the work that
it does and the value that it provides every day for events
that never rise to the level of a Federal declaration. This
funding is some of the most flexible funding that we have in
this space, and as a one-for-one match, brings a great return
on investment.
There's broad consensus in the emergency management
community for the need to increase this funding, and I would
encourage all of you to consider that as you make
determinations on budgets to come.
Secondarily, Senate Bill 3071, the Disaster Management
Costs Modernization Act, could also provide additional funding
to State and local partners without the appropriation of any
new dollars, simply allowing the flexibility to allocate
dollars that are already funded under the disaster, allowing
those funds to go farther and do more than they are currently
allowed to do. House support for this approach would be another
tangible step toward supporting better preparedness at the
State and local level.
On behalf of the State of Louisiana, just a couple of
points that I would make in terms of our support for our
locals. We process in the neighborhood of $1 billion to $1.5
billion dollars in reimbursements every year related to
disaster management programs. So we've got a great deal of
support to this.
Some of the things that we have done recently is to procure
at the State level program management contracts that allow our
locals to better access these programs and utilize these
programs without some of the administrative red tape. We
provide funding and technical assistance so that all parishes
can have a hazard mitigation plan to access hazard mitigation
funding.
Then finally, we've got staff that are dedicated to the
work to reduce complexity of managing these programs and a
great deal of experience doing so. The Disaster Survivors
Fairness Act and Disaster Assistance Simplification Act are
both examples of your work in this space, and I want to thank
you for that.
Thank you for the opportunity today.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Tingle follows:]
Prepared Statement of Casey Tingle
November 28, 2023
introduction
Thank you, Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking Members Thompson and
Carter, and distinguished Members of the committee for the invitation
to testify today and for holding this hearing in New Orleans.
I am Casey Tingle, director of the Governor's Office of Homeland
Security and Emergency Preparedness (GOHSEP). GOHSEP is the State
agency responsible for the preservation of the lives and property of
the people of the State of Louisiana through the coordination of
emergency preparedness, response, recovery, and homeland security
activities. As director of GOHSEP and on behalf of my colleagues in
State emergency management, we thank you for holding this discussion on
Emergency Preparedness: Examining Federal, State, and Local
Coordination in Coastal Communities. I also want to thank the other
partners providing testimony today. Each of them represents an
important component of the response and recovery network and each
agency represented has made significant contributions to the recovery
of Louisiana from disasters.
The relationship between Federal, State, and local emergency
management is critical. Each maintains separate authorities and
capabilities but must connect and support one another to effectively
and timely save lives and protect property. State emergency management
relies on the capacity, relationships, and preparedness of our local
partners, so the success of FEMA is also determined by the strength of
the States. The relationship between State and Federal emergency
management is sometimes stressed, but no disagreement cannot be
overcome by understanding each other's priorities, remaining flexible,
and maintaining the shared goal of focusing on disaster survivors.
disaster history declarations
From 2016 through 2023, Louisiana has been impacted by roughly 251
local incidents involving some level of State coordination or support
of these, 50 were State emergency declarations and 21 Federal disaster
declarations.
For State fiscal year 2023 alone, GOHSEP responded to 39 events and
activated the State Emergency Operations Center for 7 of those events
totaling 48 days of activation.
Notable events that affected the State include multiple severe
weather and tornado events, winter weather, and the saltwater intrusion
of the Mississippi River. There were also numerous local emergencies
including water system outages. A total of 7 incidents warranted a
State of Emergency Declaration from the Governor.
In that time, we have had several opportunities to address
coordination and improvements with other Federal agencies like FEMA and
local governments and we welcome the committee to this discussion as we
look to remain dedicated to the development and maintenance of programs
that meet our core mission, are cost-effective, improve communication
at the local, State, and Federal levels, and assist Louisiana in moving
closer to disaster independence.
While FEMA and our other Federal partners play critical roles in
our Nation's response infrastructure, response is happening every day
at the State and local level that does not rise to the level of a
Federal declaration.
progress in response posture
Since Hurricane Katrina in 2005, much progress has been made in the
response posture in the State of Louisiana as evidenced by the response
to a number of major disaster events. While no response is perfect and
each event is different, the level of preparedness, collaboration, and
practice continue to demonstrate improvements at all levels.
Coordination with key partners is continuous and benefits from trusted
relationships built over many years of working together in exercises
and real-world experience. The risks we face continue to grow in
severity and frequency but so does the commitment to preparedness at
all levels.
state investment in emergency management
Without a thriving State and local emergency management system,
many of the aforementioned events would likely have required costly
Federal support. Louisiana is investing more resources in the building
and supporting of this capacity at the local level by increasing by $3
million the amount of Emergency Management Performance Grant funding
that is passed through to our local partners. In addition, increasing
investments in cyber response and preparedness capacity, investments in
new shelter and warehouse capacity, as well as managing a State
temporary housing program are all examples of efforts to improve the
level of preparedness and the capacity to respond and recover for
Louisiana.
importance of emergency management performance grant funding
One of the most important resources supporting State and local
emergency management agencies build capacity is the Emergency
Management Performance Grant (EMPG). With a one-to-one matching
requirement at the local and State levels, this program represents one
of the best values in Federal spending. EMPG continues as a critical
driver of progress and success made across the country in preparing
for, responding to, and recovering from all hazards. The program's
success is shared by all levels of Government and relies heavily on the
continued, and decades-long, commitment of Congress.
The emergency management community is requesting Congress codifies
one of the COVID-19 supplemental amounts of $100 million to increase
EMPG to an overall funding level of $455 million in fiscal year 2024.
This will move the community toward ensuring all eligible States and
jurisdictions fully participate in the program and matches the approach
Louisiana has taken.
Further, legislation filed in the Senate, S. 3071 Disaster
Management Costs Modernization Act, would provide another critical
funding stream to support preparedness of communities across the
country by allowing for the roll-over of management costs from one
disaster to another. This legislation is supported by the National
Emergency Management Association (NEMA), International Association of
Emergency Managers (IAEM), Big City Emergency Managers (BCEM),
BuildStrong Coalition, and National Voluntary Organizations Active in
Disasters (NVOAD). Support in the House for this approach would be a
tangible step toward supporting better preparedness at the State level.
state support with recovery and mitigation programs
GOHSEP provides grant management and technical services under the
Public Assistance (PA) and Hazard Mitigation Assistance (HMA) programs.
FEMA's Public Assistance PA Program provides supplemental grants to
State, Tribal, territorial, local governments, and certain types of
private non-profits so that communities can quickly respond to and
recover from major disasters or emergencies. For context, GOHSEP
manages $23 billion in PA funding across 20 open disasters, $3.5
billion in Hazard Mitigation Grant Program (HMGP) funding across 18
open disasters, and an additional $478 million in annual mitigation
grant funding. For the State's 2023 fiscal year, GOHSEP worked with
eligible sub-grantees and FEMA to fund over 2,300 new PA grants
representing recovery funding of $1.9 billion and supplemental
amendments to grants totaling $329 million. During this same period,
GOHSEP reviewed and approved over 4,200 reimbursement requests worth
$1.1 billion dollars recovery funding.
Despite continued good-faith efforts by FEMA to reduce the
complexity of these programs, the pathway to accessing these funds
remains a real challenge to many communities. Oftentimes the fear of
claw-back or burden of complexity results in impacted communities
growing frustrated with the process or withdrawing altogether at a time
when the assistance is most needed. In order to increase the
accessibility and timeliness of this process, GOHSEP has implemented
several strategies to try and reduce the administrative burden of these
programs.
Example 1: State Contracts to Support Local Entities
In 2020, GOHSEP procured State contract vendors to assist sub-
grantees impacted by a disaster in getting immediate assistance with
obtaining and receiving both PA and HMGP funding. This new process
allows the contract support to engage early on and the sub-grantee is
spared the administrative burden of a procurement process when they are
still often in active response mode. In fiscal year 2023, these vendors
continued their work with over 130 sub-grantees across 5 disasters from
obligation of funding through grant closeout.
Example 2: Hazard Mitigation Plan Support
Approved and adopted hazard mitigation plans are a requirement for
the State and local governments, including special districts, to be
eligible for HMA grant funding. In addition to securing FEMA funding to
update the plans, GOHSEP provides assistance throughout the planning
process to ensure that plans are consistent with FEMA guidance and are
approved in a timely fashion. Currently, 48 parish plans are approved,
and 16 parish plans are in the process of being updated. Another
example of this support is the partnership with Louisiana State
University's Stephenson Disaster Management Institute (LSU SDMI) to
provide assistance with local hazard mitigation plan updates. For the
past 10 years, the State offers this assistance at no cost to the
parish to ensure that all 64 parishes have an approved Hazard
Mitigation plan.
Example 3: Technical Program Support
One of the most important responsibilities in managing these
programs is to ensure sub-grantees are able to navigate the rules of
the program and maximize their Federal grants. GOHSEP has dedicated
staff and contract support available to assist with successfully
navigating technical program requirements to ensure that FEMA reviews
and determinations are correct and consistent with the letter and
intent of law, regulation, and policy. One example of this work
involves how to appropriately account for insurance proceeds. GOHSEP
was recently successful in assisting Iberia Parish School Board with
approval of $1.7 million in PA funding related to this issue and in
assisting other sub-grantees with an additional $1.5 million due to
incorrect insurance reductions.
Example 4: State Program Liaison Staff
Since Hurricane Katrina, GOHSEP has assigned staff to serve as
program liaison between FEMA and sub-grantees for PA and HMA funding.
These staff are assigned to work with sub-grantees to explain program
requirements and time lines, to assist with complicated project
applications, and to flag issues for GOHSEP leadership. These staff
help ensure consistency and responsiveness in the program delivery and
collaboration between Federal and local partners.
Example 5: State-Funded Debris Funding
While Louisiana did not have any disasters that met the criteria
for a Federal disaster declaration in fiscal year 2023, there were
significant events that exceeded local abilities to respond and
recover. In order to preserve lives, safety, and public health; the
State agreed to fund the response and debris operations necessary for
the impacted communities to recover. GOHSEP made modifications to its
existing procedures to review and disburse this funding. GOHSEP also
supported the impacted communities by providing outreach and technical
support for their debris operations. The delivery of this program has
encouraged more robust debris management planning and has expedited
recovery from more localized events such as tornadoes.
investment in cyber preparedness and response
GOHSEP partnered with the Division of Administration--Office of
Technology Services (OTS), the Louisiana National Guard (LANG), and the
Louisiana State Police to offer cybersecurity incident management and
response assistance to State, local, and private Critical
Infrastructure and Key Resources (CIKR) throughout the State. Emergency
Support Function (ESF)-17 has been activated in an open-State disaster
declaration since 2019 and has responded to more than 120 individual
State, local, and private CIKR. During State fiscal year 2023, 22 ESF-
17 responses were conducted.
Additionally, GOHSEP has partnered with ESF-17 partners to develop
a Cyber Incident Management and Response training program and has
trained organizations throughout higher education, the State's court
systems, K-12 school systems, and municipalities across the State.
During State fiscal year 2022-2023, 4 Cyber Incident Management and
Response training events and exercises were conducted.
state and local cyber grant program
In preparation for submission of the State's 2022 State and Local
Grant Program (SLCGP) application, the Louisiana Cybersecurity
Assurance Program and associated plan were developed. This represents a
progression from a strictly reactive cybersecurity posture through
incident responses involving Louisiana's ESF-17 agencies to the
development of a proactive posture, to equitably balance Louisiana's
cybersecurity efforts. The plan resulted from ESF-17: Cybersecurity's
successful proofs of concept and was specifically developed to allow
for efficient and effective cybersecurity information sharing and
coordination, and to leverage the State's purchasing power (on behalf
of the local and rural entities) to receive discounted high-volume
prices on key assets such as software licenses and hardware for State-
wide distribution. The key project from the 2022 grant focuses on End-
Point Detection resources provided for local entities across the State.
This approach enjoyed broad support from all partners on cyber planning
committee and further demonstrates commitment to local partners.
complexity issues with recovery/mitigation
While the response posture continues to improve, the challenges of
recovery and mitigation continue. Lack of alignment, competing time
lines, duplicative interactions, insurance challenges, and the overall
lack of affordable housing all serve to leave many disaster survivors
and communities in a cycle of frustration and despair. The slow time
line of these programs combined with subsequent event further stress a
depleted network of non-profit and faith-based partners. Community
Development Block Grant--Disaster Recovery (CDBG-DR) funds offer the
promise of long-term recovery and flexibility but many times these
promises are not fulfilled. Ask families that have to navigate multiple
programs, applications, rules, and time lines for their feedback in you
will hear confusion, missed opportunities, and short-term programs
standing in the way of long-term solutions. H.R. 1796: Disaster
Survivors Fairness Act of 2023 and S. 1528: Disaster Assistance
Simplification Act both offer helpful solutions to these challenges.
Thank you for your attention to these issues.
insurance issues
At a time when local and State partners continue to increase
investments in coastal protection and restoration, updating State-wide
building codes, and creating new mitigation programs, the availability,
affordability, and performance gaps threaten the future of many
communities in our State. The lack of transparency and affordability
for the National Flood Insurance Program mean that families are now
priced out of their communities in some cases after investing their
hard-earned funds to elevate their home as well as local taxation for
flood protection. For wind insurance, the slow and convoluted claims
process and the increasing reliance on the costly State insurer of last
resort mean that recovery is slower, stressful, and often incomplete.
conclusion
On behalf of the State of Louisiana, thank you again for holding
this hearing and drawing attention to the needs of our community. Thank
you for your attention to the challenges and complexities of recovery
that all too often fade into the background once the immediate
attention has passed. We should commit to leaning forward, removing
duplicated programs, and effort to look at the process from the
survivor's point of view. Working together, aligning efforts, and
empowering communities to prepare for recovery in the same way they
prepare for response will position us for the challenges ahead.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Tingle.
I now recognize Mrs. Granger for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF PAMELA GONZALES GRANGER, PRESIDENT/OWNER, MC BADE
ENGINEERS & CONSULTANTS, LLC
Mrs. Granger. Good morning, Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking
Member Carter, Ranking Member Thompson, and other Members of
the subcommittee. I am Pamela Gonzales Granger. I'm a
practicing civil engineer in the State of Louisiana. I've been
practicing for 29 years. I have a bachelor's and a master's
degree. All of my clients are government clients, so I have
chosen to spend the last 29 years helping our local, State, and
Federal partners with recovery, with infrastructure projects,
rather than doing any private development.
I'm honored here to testify before you based upon my
experience for the past 7 years, since the August 2016 flood
that we commonly call DR-4277. That is when, in Youngsville,
where I live and where my firm is and where I currently
practice, we received more than 32 inches of rain in less than
48 hours. So while it wasn't a hurricane, and we're about 40
miles from the coast, we are tidally influenced. So what
happens in Youngsville, adjacent communities, communities
downstream, communities upstream, we are all in it together.
We're all affected.
The Hazard Mitigation Program is one of--what I feel--one
of the best programs in order to work with mitigation of
projects from disasters, such as the disaster 4277. Oftentimes,
many small communities do not have the funds in order to do the
projects that are really needed in order to reduce the base
flood elevation. If we want to get flood insurance down, we
really need--we need to focus on doing projects that reduce the
base flood elevation.
The two projects that we have experience in doing under
this program not only benefited the city of Youngsville but
local cities around parishes downstream and upstream. So
programs like these need to be continued because local charters
don't always allow you to spend money on projects that would
help other communities, and your local charters usually want to
keep your money within your community.
But with that said, most small communities don't have the
resources and don't have the experience with navigating the
Hazard Mitigation Program and many of the Federal programs.
Some might call it red tape. I refer to it as duct tape and a
ball that you're trying to open up and spread and make one
straight line.
With that, there were many challenges, and that's what my
testimony, my written testimony that I provided was based upon
the challenges. While there are benefits and the projects are
now complete, there are benefits of 4 to 12 inches of base
flood reduction for many, many people within the community.
But there were challenges with the procurement policy.
There are challenges once the project is started with the
goalpost moving as far as to what your requirements are. So you
may start, and if there are modifications, you will submit
plans, and you could be required to make modifications on some
new procedure or process unbeknownst to you, delaying and
causing increase in costs. When you apply for a project, you
have to put all your funds at the beginning, and so those could
change over time.
There's also the challenge of the coordination and the
review timing and the coordination of when to get the comments
back. We always have a deadline on us as to when we have to
provide comments, and we have to provide quarterly reports, but
there don't appear to be deadlines on the opposite end.
There needs to be--there is a central portal, which
oftentimes doesn't work or has the inability to be used for
certain times. Then if you successfully get it through, like we
did on the projects, there comes the last challenge of
reimbursements.
While I recognize there are a lot of programs, we are only
2 projects of 132 that went through the application process of
DR-4277. We are the only 2 that went to construction, and here
we are 7 years after that disaster.
But with those reimbursements taking long, consultants like
myself and the contractors are now footing the bill, because
we're the ones that are waiting to be paid 90 to 120 days.
I am a small business. So are these contractors. So we have
a lot--with technology and the ability that we have before us,
we have a lot of work to do. The program is really great. I
look forward to working with anyone who would like to ask
questions or work with me on some of the challenges and ideas
because we lived it.
So I thank you for the opportunity today, and look forward
to answering any questions and helping you guys in the future.
[The prepared statement of Mrs. Granger follows:]
Prepared Statement of Pamela Gonzales Granger
November 28, 2023
introduction
Good morning, Chairman D'Esposito, Ranking Member Carter, and other
Members of the subcommittee. I am Pamela Gonzales Granger, PE, a
practicing registered professional civil engineer, owner and principal
engineer of McBade Engineers & Consultants, LLC in Youngsville,
Louisiana. Currently, I own and manage a woman-owned small business
civil engineering firm that provides professional civil engineering
services to local and State governmental clients for infrastructure
projects. I have been providing engineering modeling, planning, and
design services to governmental clients for over 29 years.
I am honored to testify today before your subcommittee based upon
my personal experiences and my firm's experience over the past 7 years
with implementing disaster recovery and mitigation projects within
small local communities in Louisiana as part of the August 2016 flood
known as DR 4277. I have personally led every project that my firm is
involved in that is funded by both the Hazard Mitigation Program (HMGP)
and HUD which are administered through the State of Louisiana through
Governor's Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness
(GOHSEP) and the Louisiana Office of Community Development through the
Louisiana Watershed Initiative (LWI) Program, respectively as part of
the recovery and mitigation efforts of DR 4277. I have first-hand
knowledge of the Federal, State, and local coordination and
implementation of disaster recovery and mitigation projects through the
HMGP and LWI funding for the local communities of Youngsville and
Church Point, Louisiana.
My testimony today focuses on the needs, benefits, challenges, and
areas where we can collectively improve on the coordination and
implementation of the HMGP program, disaster recovery, and mitigation
so that communities can recover, be more resilient, and implement
projects that result in a reduction of flood levels and flood insurance
premiums. My experience is based upon the two recent DR 4277 regional
detention pond projects for the city of Youngsville, Louisiana.
needs and benefits of hmgp and other federal programs for disaster
preparedness, recovery, and resilience for small and local communities
The phrase ``water doesn't know political boundaries'' became very
apparent to many small communities throughout Louisiana during the
flood of August 2016. Many communities, including the city of
Youngsville, recognized that drainage, stormwater management, and
floodplain management was beyond what a community does just within its
own corporate limits. Small communities where drainage is influenced by
adjoining communities, communities downstream, and coastal tides must
work on a regional basis and work with State and Federal partners to
implement projects that positively impact a region.
Many small communities have limited financial resources as well as
staff resources that have the availability and experience to identify
and implement projects and activities on a regional level. Most
community charters prohibit and/or limit local funding for projects
that may be more regional in impacts and location. This is why the need
continues for Federal and State funding of projects that result in a
regional impact on drainage, stormwater, and floodplain management.
Projects like the city of Youngsville's Bailey Grove Regional
Detention and Coulee LaSalle Regional Detention are great examples of
how the local governments agreed to work together on the selection and
implementation of regional projects with the HMGP funding appropriated
for the ``Acadiana Region''. Both projects benefit the city of
Youngsville, city of Broussard, Unincorporated Lafayette Parish,
Vermilion Parish, Iberia Parish, and St. Martin Parish. None of the
entities by themselves would have been able to fund $10 million in
regional detention projects. The projects provide for a reduction of 4
to 12 inches in 100-year Base Flood of the FEMA modeled channels of
Coulee LaSalle and Bayou Parc Perdu depending upon where you are
located along the channel within each City or Parish. In an area where
most homes had on average 6 inches of water within the homes during the
2016 flood, this is recognized as a significant benefit. In Youngsville
alone there was more than an estimated $29 million in flood damage to
homes in the areas of these channels.
challenges with applications, implementation, and reimbursements
After disasters like the 2016 flood or hurricanes, small municipal
governments face a daunting task of recovery, typically with limited
staff resources. Many small communities do not have full engineering
departments or grant writers and have limited accounting staff.
The Challenge of the Procurement Policy.--To apply for
Federal grant programs such as HMGP or BRIC, most small
communities need to hire a consultant due to limited internal
resources. Oftentimes, local communities such as Youngsville
would prefer to get consultants that are familiar with their
infrastructure and their needs to help them with the grant
application. Typically, the grant applications require a level
of engineering preliminary study and/or modeling to answer the
questions and score well on the application for approval. This
means the community must fund the grant writer with their own
funds to apply. Due to the level of engineering analysis, most
engineering firms will need to be funded to pursue grants. If
the grant application is approved and funded, the community
must follow procurement policy to select a firm. The firm that
applied for the funding is typically prohibited from submitting
for selection to perform the engineering. While communities
understand the need for the ``level playing field'' for
consultants, the current procurement policy adds several months
to a project for selection, adds cost for the new consultant to
learn about the system and costs to the community to fund the
applicant consultant to help the selected consultant with
understanding the system. This is counterproductive to recovery
in time and cost.
The Challenge of Changing Requirements Once a Project is
Started.--Once the project is selected and moves forward,
grantees are given instructions with requirements and schedules
along with guidance documents. However, as new disasters occur
and new funding for those disasters become available, new
procedures, processes, and guidance documents are developed
with the intention of making it easier for the new applicants.
Two examples in our experience were the new algorithms and
process for the calculation of the Benefit Cost Analysis or BCA
and the Hydrologic and Hydraulic (H&H) Report Requirements. Our
project plans, specifications, benefit-cost ratio, and H&H
report were submitted in June 2021, but we received comments a
year later referring to a guidance document released after our
submittal. The BCA analysis was rejected due to new guidance
and tool kit that was not previously provided as a grantee for
DR 4277. While we understand and appreciate the importance of
the BCA and we acknowledge and agree we want to only spend
money on projects that provide a benefit that exceeds the cost,
a project that has been started should stay within the guidance
provided in the grant agreement as long as the grantee has been
making forward progress within the given project time and in
constant communication with the State partners. We must strive
to work together as to not move the goal post throughout the
life of the project.
The Challenge of the Federal Partner Review and
Coordination.--As part of the grantee requirements, a quarterly
report must be submitted regarding the progress of the
projects. There is no requirement for the State and Federal
partners to provide quarterly or any regular updates to the
grantee regarding the review process during the application,
funding, or any submittal review phases. If there is a
requirement, we did not receive any regular correspondence on
our Youngsville projects.
There are many schedule and time constraints that are placed on the
grantee for accountability but there are no schedule or time
constraints placed on the State and Federal partners to provide
anything to the grantee. The grantee's ability to get their
project approved, funded, and/or reviewed is directly related
to how much you constantly inquire, and the number and titles
of the individuals you copy on your inquiries. Our experience
on our two Youngsville projects was when you are unable to get
answers after several weeks and/or months on an inquiry, we
reached out to the staff of our Congressman.
During the review process, significant delays occurred with
comments submitted from the Federal agency to the State agency
then to the grantee. The program would benefit tremendously
from a review comment system that was on a portal instead of
letters generated then sent to a desk for signature, then
emailed to one person then delays getting emailed to numerous
others before being sent to the grantee. Once the grantee
received comments, a 30-60-day deadline was typically given to
the grantee to respond to comments.
The Challenge of a Central Portal.--Access to a central
portal that the local, State, and Federal partners can all
utilize is critical to the success of efficient and succinct
project implementation. A central portal should be where all
information is stored and where all partners can access the
same information and where alerts can be set to notify members
of submittal documents. A review comment section where all
partners provide comments and responses would make the process
more efficient and thorough.
While a portal exists, during our project implementation the portal
experienced a lot of technical issues including document
reduction and failures to alert when documents are uploaded.
Due to the numerous technical issues and the inability for
everyone to use it efficiently, links to drop boxes had to be
created to submit documents for review.
The Challenge of Reimbursements.--Most small communities
like the city of Youngsville do not have the funds to pay
consultants and contractors and then wait to be reimbursed by
the State. For the first phase of the projects, which is the
data collection, modeling, and design phase, the city of
Youngsville did pay us as the consultants as we submitted
invoices, as they had sufficient cash flow at the time of
design. Phase 1 of the two projects combined was less than $2.2
million. However, Phase 2 was almost $8 million for
construction, program management, construction management, and
construction observation services. The construction contracts
were for 9 months, which resulted in an average of $1 million a
month in construction and fees for the project. The city of
Youngsville does not have the amount of cash flow to pay
invoices then get reimbursed. The city of Youngsville has
experienced reimbursements and/or payments taking 90 to 120
days. This means that the contractors and engineers are funding
the Phase 2 of the projects by taking out loans to meet cash
flow to run their companies and paying interest on that money,
yet interest is not paid to contractors and consultants. At
that rate of reimbursement, consultants and contractors cannot
afford to be involved with multiple disaster recovery or
mitigation projects at a time. As a small business owner who is
passionate about helping small municipal clients like
Youngsville with disaster recovery, mitigation, and resilience,
the reimbursements are a significant challenge to the
sustainability of our company. Our experience in 2023 has
forced us to limit the number of clients we can assist with
Federal-funded programs at the same time, despite our success
in assisting our clients with navigating the process.
summary
Disaster recovery, mitigation, and resiliency grant programs are
highly regarded and well-intended. With the science and technology at
our disposal it should not take the amount of time it takes to
implement projects from inception to completion. The two city of
Youngsville projects were 2 of 132 projects that received application
approval under the HMGP for DR 4277. As of August 2023, only 3 of the
132 projects were approved for Phase 2 which is construction. The city
of Youngsville projects are the only 2 projects that have been
constructed in the State under the HMGP for DR 4277, 7 years after the
disaster.
We must improve these numbers and statistics. Working together we
can improve the programs to deliver high-quality projects quickly,
efficiently, and cost-effectively. We can improve and/or eliminate
every challenge identified.
I thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I offer my
assistance to work with and provide ideas to the State and Federal
partners as well as this subcommittee from my perspective as consultant
that not only designs but works as an extension of staff of a local
community when working on projects that are Federally-funded. I am
happy to answer any questions you may have.
Mr. D'Esposito. Well, thank you, Mrs. Granger.
Members will be recognized by order of seniority for their
5 minutes of questioning. An additional round of questioning
may be called after all Members have been recognized.
I now recognize myself for 5 minutes.
So again, I want to thank you all for being here. As
someone who has spent his adult life in the emergency
management world, I think one of the questions that we always
ask ourselves is are we better off today than we were the last
time we were faced with an emergency similar?
Through all of your opening statements, I heard, you know,
a common theme, coordination, being better prepared, having
communication amongst all agencies.
So, Mr. Tingle, I know we discussed much of this yesterday
when we did our tour, but like many coastal States, I think New
York--there are many coastal States that--we have flood-prone
communities, but there are different challenges throughout
different locations in the State. In New York, you know, Long
Island, and my colleagues, Mr. Garbarino and Mr. LaLota, we
face very different concerns on Long Island as they may in
Buffalo and Syracuse and Westchester.
So as someone who represents the entire State, how do you
focus not only during emergencies but preparing for the next
emergency to make sure that every area of the State of
Louisiana has the proper resources that they need and that no
one is neglected?
Mr. Tingle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the question. So
on behalf of the State of Louisiana, we've got emergency
management offices by law in each of our 64 parishes. We--as I
mentioned in my opening statement, we have continued to pass
along more of our EMPG funding to each of them.
The best response is always the local response. So the
better-positioned our local partners are, the better-positioned
we as a State and we as a Nation will be. So we take that
effort very seriously.
So we work very closely with our locals. We view it as our
job to support them, to help fill gaps for them, and to ensure
that they are providing to us the information and the resource
requests that they need so that we can benefit them timely. So
I think it's that partnership that makes a difference on behalf
of the State of Louisiana.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you.
I think one of the issues that we've been focused on in
this committee, because I think it's important--you know, I
always compare it to New York. I think about the aftermath of
Hurricane Sandy and preparing and making sure that resources
were allocated correctly throughout the State. There is no
question that during emergencies, resources are allocated. I
think that it's always in the best interest, but sometimes
those resources are not allocated to the places that they
really should be.
One of the things that we have been focused on is making
sure, and one of the reasons for this hearing, is that we are
coordinated with all agencies, Federal, State, and local.
Places like Louisiana, and I'll compare it to home on Long
Island. I mean, on Long Island, our fire service is comprised
of mostly volunteers from the city line all the way out to
Montauk. The entire Long Island is pretty much volunteer fire
service.
Now, you take a large-scale emergency and you coordinate
the local police departments, the emergency management system,
the volunteer fire service, FEMA, Small Business
Administration, there becomes a lot--there's a lot of cooks in
the kitchen.
What can we do better? I know that we have tried to push
out the information to these smaller organizations and
institutions to make sure that they have the ability to apply
for the grant funding and they know the resources that are
available. But what can we do better to make sure that it's not
just the big organizations that are getting that large pot of
money, that we can actually get into the communities, the
smaller communities, the ones that actually really need the
money and the resources to battle these emergencies?
What can we all do better as Members of Congress and what
can we do better as the Federal Government to make sure that
they have--and really this question is to all of you. So if we
want to start with Mr. Robinson and work our way down: What can
we do better to make sure that even the smallest communities
are getting the information that they need to be provided the
resources to really help them survive?
Mr. Robinson. Thank you, Chairman. I think your point on
coordination and collaboration is key. We have to have built
relationships before the event in emergency management. So for
Region 6, we work very closely with all of our partners at the
Federal and State level. I think the important thing that we
really focused on in the last several years is, who are the
influencers in communities? So there's faith-based
organizations, the organizations that really have that
grassroot connection that can get that information out to
individuals.
So those are some of the things that we're working on
through our office and in coordination with our States.
Mr. D'Esposito. Great.
Mr. Sanchez.
Mr. Sanchez. Thank you, Chairman, for the question. I think
the coordination piece is critical. I think there's three ways
to look at it from our function. It's coordinate, collaborate,
and communicate. How do we coordinate with State, local, and
Federal partners? How do we communicate all that information?
How do we collaborate on the solutions that make sense for a
community?
You know, we're unique and interesting sort-of. We're
opening access to Governors so they can make more disaster
declarations, but we're leading from the ground up with local
communities, making sure that when we go on the ground, we're
learning from those local chambers, those local organizations,
making sure that we're going where they are.
So all the data-driven decisions we make also go into local
communities for context to ensure that where we need to be,
making sure there our programs get to those communities that
need it, but that everyone is aware of that as well.
Mr. D'Esposito. Great.
Mr. Tingle.
Mr. Tingle. I would add to that--and certainly would agree
with those comments. I would add that in your role in
particular, there is a balance between appropriate oversight
and ensuring that taxpayer dollars are spent appropriately, and
all of us, you know, certainly support that. But how you do
that through policy, how you do that through legislation
oftentimes ends up meaning that we spend more money trying to
manage the dollar than we're actually implementing.
So to Mrs. Granger's point earlier on her comments, I would
just say that as we create legislation, as we review policies
in the Stafford Act and other places, the ability to reduce
complexity. There is only so much technical assistance that we
can provide to communities. If the barrier to those programs
and the level of sophistication that you have to have and
experience to navigate them is, in many cases, a turnoff to
communities. They're afraid of accessing. They're afraid of
getting something wrong. They're afraid of the claw-back on the
backside of doing something.
So I would just advocate strongly for balancing that
oversight component with is the complexity that we are
including to get that oversight also costing us money and the
opportunity cost that communities are not accessing those
programs because they are afraid of that complexity.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Tingle.
Mrs. Granger, I'm over my time, but if you could be brief
to that question and, I guess specifically, how small business
is affected and how we can do better for that.
Mrs. Granger. Well, I think to get to the community, like
you said, right now the money goes to the State, the State to
parishes, from our perspective, all this competition from the
State divvying up on the HMGP. If it actually went to the
communities directly, if there was a way you could, no
different than how some COVID money was able to be worked with
projects directly with the communities. There's just lots of
levels. If there was a way that it doesn't have to always go
through three to four levels, that would be one.
From a small business, just like anything else, there are
some Federal programs where it's mandated small businesses have
to be paid within a certain amount of time. I mean, putting
that onus on whoever it is that's doing it, there's a--we have
time limits. Contractors have time limits with liquidated
damages. I'm just saying putting it on folks to have time
limits on what they do as well.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you.
With the red dot, I've clearly violated my time limit.
But I now recognize my good friend--and thank you again for
having us and welcoming us--the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr.
Carter.
Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I mentioned earlier the National Flood Insurance Program
Risk Rating 2.0 has caused hardships for many property owners
in New Orleans and throughout Louisiana. FEMA professes that
Risk Rating 2.0 is a better solution to managing flood risk.
But when I talk to those who are impacted, with the high--
higher and rising flood insurance programs, I hear something
totally different.
When Secretary Mayorkas was before our committee, I
challenged him on the reality of what Risk Rating 2.0 is doing
to many underserved communities and many communities, period,
throughout Louisiana, Mississippi, and many other States. He
then recognized and acknowledged publicly that it is a work in
progress and we have to continue to work on ways to make it
better and more equitable.
Mr. Tingle, can you discuss the impacts of Risk Rating 2.0
on Louisianians?
Mr. Tingle. I will do my best, sir. You certainly laid out
some important information there which I would agree with.
There are two--amongst the whole realm of Risk Rating 2.0 and
some of the challenges there, there are two things that I would
point out to the committee for consideration.
No. 1 is, under the legacy system of NFIP, there was a
great deal of transparency in terms of, if I elevate my house a
foot, 2 feet, 3 feet, I can estimate with some deal of clarity
what the reduction in my policy premium is going to be. There
was a--not a strict calculation but a general sense of every
foot that you elevated a house what your savings was going to
be. That no longer exists under Risk Rating 2.0. So that lack
of transparency with what can I do to my house to lower my
premium, I think there are some things in progress, but that
clearly was not the case with the initial rollout and, clearly,
more work needs to be done there.
Then the second critical point that I would highlight is
just the need for an affordability program to be able to offset
some of those costs. From my perspective, rolling out the
premium change without a corresponding affordability program is
devastating to so many coastal communities in the State of
Louisiana and other States as well.
Mr. Carter. Thank you.
It's literally causing people to have to make the
determination can they afford to live in the home that in many
cases they've paid for and now find themselves with not a house
note but a flood insurance note that oftentimes is more
expensive than the house note itself.
Mr. Robinson--thank you, Regional Administrator Robinson,
for listening and being a part of the discussion. Has FEMA
considered exploring a means-based assistance program as
recommended by the GAO report entitled, ``Flood Insurance:
FEMA's New Rate-Setting Methodology Improves Soundness but
Highlights Need for a Broader Program.'' This study really
spelled out a lot of the issues that are there.
Can you share with us your thoughts on what you guys are
doing to recognize some of these?
Mr. Robinson. Thank you, Congressman Carter. As you all
know, insurance obviously is a great way for individuals to
recover much more quickly in a disaster. So Risk Rating 2.0
established the flood insurance premium on each individual
home's unique flood risk. So we know increasing premiums are a
challenge. The agency has submitted an affordability framework
to Congress that I believe does take into consideration some of
the GAO considerations.
For my commitment to you as Region 6 regional administrator
and the things that I can control, we're going to continue to
work very closely with the State to look at mitigation measures
that we can put into effect that lower the risk to homeowners
that would bring those insurance premiums down. The other thing
that we are very aggressive on is getting communities to
participate in the community rating system, and that can enable
5 to 45 percent reduction in insurance rates depending on a
community's community rating system rating.
Mr. Carter. Thank you.
It's an on-going issue. We'll continue to bring it back.
You've not--this is not the first time you've heard me say
this. It comes up in every committee that we have.
With my remaining time, which I'm running close to,
Associate Administrator Sanchez, in my opening remarks I talked
about the increased burden that small businesses have. Every
time there's a storm, we have to--many small business owners
have to make loans every time there's a natural disaster to get
their businesses back up. We know the benefit of small
businesses. They're the backbone of our community. They hire
people. They pay sales taxes. Sales taxes pay for police and
fire and other resources. Yet they continue to be strangled
with loan after loan after loan.
I have spoken with the administrator repeatedly, and I'll
ask you the same question: Where do we stand on working on loan
forgiveness? We forgive small countries. We forgive financial
institutions and automobile institutions. What about a
forgiveness program for small businesses that will allow them
to continue to provide jobs and resources?
Mr. Sanchez. Ranking Member, thanks for that question. It
is a concern that we hear repeatedly and one that--we can't by
law forgive loans, but we do everything we can within our
authorities to address those challenges. I want to thank you
for the opportunity to invite our staff on a regular basis to
help prepare businesses here in advance of hurricanes----
Mr. Carter. You guys have done a great job with that, by
the way. So I want to thank you and your local team, as with
everyone at the table. All of you have been great. The
questions that we pose to you are not to pick on you but
questions that we continue to wrestle with.
Mr. Sanchez. Yes. So within our authorities, here's some of
the things. We can't forgive loans, but we're looking for ways
to reduce that impact to be more customer-friendly. One of
those is reducing--extending the deferment period for an
initial loan for 12 months and zero interest. We're also--we
talk about mitigation. SBA is often the first and only Federal
agency on the ground. We talked about Louisiana, for example.
Of the 36 disasters in the past 10 years, 17 of those has been
SBA agency declarations, and we're the only agency on the
ground for those and those smaller disasters, and they add up
when businesses are impacted over and over.
On the mitigation front, as we're pushing that program so
that hopefully businesses in coastal communities or that are
impacted again and again don't have to even come back to us
again. So for right now we've prioritized our mitigation
lending program. So fiscal year 2022, there were only $6
million--I'm sorry--about $9 million in mitigation lending.
We've prioritized education so that businesses know that they
have the opportunity to mitigate when they're facing a
disaster. We've increased that from about $9 million to $66
million. It's almost three times what we did the previous year
in loan amounts. So within our constraints working to
prioritize mitigation so they don't have to come for us for
additional----
Mr. Carter. So real quickly. I'm over my time, and the
Chairman has been very generous, but I'm going to end real
quickly. You indicated it's not. What's the impediment? Tell me
if the impediment is--as Congress we're more than ready to
remove that impediment and we'd like to know will we have your
support in doing so.
Mr. Sanchez. Sir, it is something that we hear. It's
consistent frustration from--and I know businesses and
homeowners that are repeatedly having to come to SBA loans
would be appreciative of.
Mr. Carter. Good enough. We'll have a bill before end's
week.
I yield back.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
Now I recognize the Ranking Member of the entire committee,
Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Mrs. Granger, I feel your pain. I have two working
disasters going in my district. One of the things I have
historically promoted is for people in the local area to get
employed, either through the local hire program at FEMA or as a
subcontractor or contractor in their respective community.
Now, we have some challenges. One is a majority of my
emergency manager jurors in my counties are part-time. That
means that, you know, they're the veterans service officer or
they're the farmer or something like that. So some of the
training and certifications that are required kind-of hit-and-
miss. But what happens with an engineering firm is the big boys
show up and just gobble up everything, and so a company like
yours is just kind-of pushed to the side.
I'm looking for what safeguards can we put in place so that
local businesses who have capacity won't be pushed to the side.
Can you help me with that?
Mrs. Granger. Yes, sir. Thank you for the question. Well,
just like the Federal Government has the 8(a) set-aside program
where you can give Federal contracts to somebody that's 8(a),
why couldn't the Government say--if it's a small business in
that community and it's that community's trusted advisor, why
can't they use those communities? That's what I meant by the
procurement policy.
Because right now the procurement policy says, if I help my
community write the application, because I know everything
about it and I work as their extension of staff, I can't then
do the work, and that big firm comes in, and the big firms know
that. So they wait for the little firms who are working with
the communities to help them in the recovery, identify the
project, write the grant, and then they come in when you have
to go through Federal procurement policy, if you get the
Federal loan, and that's how they come in.
So modifications to that Federal procurement policy.
Because if the Federal Government can say if you're in 8(a) you
can get direct, which I totally agree with, the whole idea is
the level playing field. I don't think the Federal procurement
policy with the level playing field was trying to keep small
businesses out. I think they were trying to help small
business. The problem is the way it's written and the way it
goes.
That would be one thing, I think, because I think a lot of
times a lot of these small communities are saying, I don't want
to work with them. So they're going to not put the application
in, and I'm not going to put the application in for a large
firm to come in. Because the other thing that happens, Mr.
Thompson, is that the small community will have to pay me so
that I can explain to the large firm what to do.
Mr. Thompson. Yes. Let me give you another issue for--Mr.
Tingle, is--and I'll get to Mr. Robinson on the second round.
FEMA approves the reimbursement, and it comes to the State. It
takes longer for the State to approve the reimbursement that
FEMA has already approved. So you have Mrs. Granger and other
subs out there, you know, they've done everything they need.
What is it you think we could do to streamline just the
reimbursement if it goes straight to FEMA and FEMA says, OK,
since we're putting the money in, we approve it? Help us out.
Mr. Tingle. Sure. So a bit of context, from my experience,
is the one piece of that puzzle that I think would be most
helpful here is if the FEMA approval included language that
they are approving that the costs that they've reviewed are
reasonable and that the execution of those costs is in line
with their rules. The way it stands now, the FEMA approval
doesn't cover all of the things that have to be provided at
audit, and it leaves the State at some risk that if anything
about that process is incomplete, FEMA's going to ask for the
money back, and the State is the first in line to have to deal
with that claw-back.
So right now there is a bit of risk that some of the things
that FEMA does and some of the flexibility that they offer
helps them, but it doesn't necessarily resolve risk at the
State or local level.
Mr. Thompson. So is there a time limit that the State is
required to complete that review?
Mr. Tingle. So there is a time limit between the State and
locals. In terms of what we respond to FEMA with, I would just
clarify that I think that the answer to that question is more
that what is not time-based in terms of FEMA policy is the time
for which they have to act.
Mr. Thompson. OK. On the second round, Mr. Robinson, you
can get ready for that.
Mr. D'Esposito. Do you want to do it while you're at it?
Mr. Thompson. Well, OK.
Well, Mr. Robinson, how do you help us streamline
reimbursement after disaster for contractors like Mrs. Granger?
Mr. Robinson. So, obviously, one of the most important
things that we do is the reimbursement process. So a couple of
things--and I'll just highlight a couple of things that Casey
talked about. I think one of the things that we see as audits
come out, especially long, high-dollar amounts, that really
puts a risk base on the State who is our primary recipient. So
when there's an issue, that's who we ask for money back for. So
where we see big audits, I think that really slows down the
process because there's a lot of fear in the system about, have
I done everything correctly?
So in Region 6, some of the things that we're doing is
we're really focusing on a predisaster procurement training,
and so we get out, work with our States, work for the locals on
the things that they need to be looking out for, so the small
business set-aside clauses and contracts. Because the last
thing we want them to do is go through a contract. What we see
in audits is about 60 percent of them are either based on
audits--or procurement or documentation.
So we want to make sure that we're addressing that and
training up-front so that those aren't issues that they deal
with on the back end of a disaster and slows down
reimbursement.
Mr. Thompson. Does that make sense, Mrs. Granger?
Mrs. Granger. Well, maybe to them. I think what he's trying
to say is that there's--I think a lot of people are so risk-
averse that they're just taking their time and they're looking
for everything. But if there's a issue or if there's something
that you're risk-averse about and you have a question, they do
not pick up the phone, nor--or they--you know, contact the
local. If there's a question with something on procurement, if
there's a question with something on an invoice or whatever,
they're not readily picking up the phone saying, I've got it in
front of me, I've got these questions. That is not what
happens.
What happens is, when you wait, you're calling and saying,
What seems to be the issue? Nobody can give you that answer.
Mr. Thompson. OK. So we need to look somehow at, if there's
an issue with the reimbursement, the person who finds the issue
needs to contact the company right then. Make sense.
Mrs. Granger. Yes, sir.
Mr. Thompson. So is that--now, that's the State.
Mr. Tingle. Yes, sir. So we've got primary responsibility
there. I would say that one thing that I think should be
considered here is that we've made a lot of progress under
public assistance grants with finding ways to improve the cash
flow. So when the administration raised the cap of the small
project threshold, for example, to a million dollars, that
greatly relieved the administrative burden on State and locals
to expedite cash flow. That only applies to public assistance.
If we could do something like that under the Hazard Mitigation
Program, regardless where the threshold is, that just simply
said that, once approved, that grant can be paid out to the
subgrantee, I think that would be a great step forward.
Mr. Thompson. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
So, Mr. Tingle, in your previous role as assistant deputy
director for hazard mitigation assistance for the Governor's
Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness for the
State of Louisiana, you oversaw the Hazard Mitigation Grant
Program, the Flood Mitigation Assistance, and Pre-Disaster
Mitigation Grant Program that collectively represented $2.5
billion in projects to protect people and property from natural
disasters.
I think something that we've seen in many States--and I
think it's one of the questions or the comments that I posed in
the beginning was that as emergency managers we always try to
be better off today than we were at the last emergency.
So we've seen during storms, we've seen even during the
COVID-19 pandemic, that proactive--or I should say at that
point reactive--reactive governments often make changes. I
mean, you look at COVID, and there are many municipalities that
made building and zoning changes so that restaurants and small
businesses could stay afloat and keep their doors open.
So through that $2.5 billion that has been allocated, have
you seen in Louisiana that it's been used the right way? Are
people and are the local municipalities changing and making
changes to their, let's say, their building codes, you know,
their flood plain management? Are they making the necessary
changes so that this money is actually being utilized correctly
to prepare us for the future?
Mr. Tingle. Yes, sir. So unlike some of the former
questions, that one is easy. The answer is yes. So in support
of our local partners, I think as we saw some elevations as we
drove around yesterday, we saw houses that are 3, 4 feet above
the ground today so that in a future rainfall event, while the
street may flood, while the yard may have water, the home is
going to be safe. So that's true across coastal Louisiana,
across many parts of Louisiana.
The level of engagement at the local level to pursue these
mitigation programs, to execute these mitigation programs, as
Mrs. Granger has outlined, the patience and the persistence
that it takes, that's true across Louisiana. I'm proud of those
local partners and all the work they do in interfacing both
with homeowners and property owners as well as doing community-
based projects.
So in terms of where we've progressed to, that's one of the
changes. The projects Mrs. Granger mentioned are not individual
home elevations. They are detention projects that are finding a
way to hold rainfall so that it doesn't immediately go in the
street or immediately flood. We've got projects like that in
the city of New Orleans as well.
Mr. D'Esposito. Now, I know this was discussed yesterday
when we did the tour, and I guess it's really something that
comes up whenever you talk about emergencies: It brings out the
very best in people and, unfortunately, brings out the very
worst in people. So I know that we had briefly touched on it
yesterday while we were in our tour. But I think it's
important, because when you see a number like $2.5 billion--and
perhaps Mrs. Granger can comment on this, but I know a lot of
your work has been with government.
But in addition to the obvious, when we talk about this
$2.5 billion, we talk about investing in infrastructure, we
talk about raising homes and businesses, we talk about making
our communities more resilient, what also has been done in
order to protect communities and residents from the fraud that
we've seen with contractors and especially targeting seniors
and people who are in the communities that--you know, we see
it--I know where I live on Long Island, we still have homes
that are in the air, you know, not put back on their foundation
yet because they had a contractor that came in and completely
took them for their money and you never see them again. I know
that the prosecutors in the area have worked with Consumer
Affairs in order to prosecute these individuals, but there's
also been laws changed, local laws changed in order to tighten
up the ship.
Maybe you can comment on the work that's been done. Because
we don't want to see another $2.5 billion be used and people
being taken advantage of again.
Mr. Tingle. Certainly. So at a community-based project,
there's very little risk there. In terms of the procurement
guideline, the process that has to go through, all of that gets
sorted out. I think the existing challenge is when an
individual family receives a grant to raise their house, to
rebuild their house----
Mr. D'Esposito. Right.
Mr. Tingle [continuing]. And they're not familiar with
construction, this may be the first construction project that
they have had to go through.
So for the State of Louisiana, there's really two things
that I would highlight. One is, in all of our reconstruction
programs, using like HUD CDBG dollars, there's a program by
which the State can handle all of that administrative burden,
finding the contractor, doing the contracting, and the
homeowner is just supporting that work. Then the second piece
is, in our mitigation programs, everything is milestone-based.
That first milestone that--in fact, the project can't even kick
off until the contract's been put forward, the contractor shows
what they're going to do, they've been vetted. So all of that
money is really based upon actual performance, and requiring
that has been a significant step forward.
Mr. D'Esposito. Right. So they don't move forward unless
they meet the benchmarks?
Mr. Tingle. That's correct.
Mr. D'Esposito. OK. Mrs. Granger, did you want to comment
on that?
Mrs. Granger. Quickly. I did flood as well, and I had flood
insurance, and I can tell you, you should put the--I was not
required. I'm in zone X. But the money went to Wells Fargo, who
has my house--home loan. They were extremely strict, to the
point they didn't want to take my license for me to be able to
redo it.
So lots of our--if they were given grants and it was
administered the way Wells Fargo administered me, working on my
house with my flood insurance money, would be really--because
there was no way somebody was going to be able to do it without
having all of the credentials. It took several layers for them
to understand I had the credentials. We design the plans
contractors put together. But I think that there are things
that could be in place.
While it is great for the homeowner to get the money, like
he said, a lot of them don't know what to do. So I think,
obviously, if it was given, whether it's given--if they still
have a loan, if the flood insurance has to go back to the
mortgage company, maybe the grants should too. Because the
mortgage companies send inspectors out there and the mortgage--
while it is a--I didn't like having to necessarily go through
it, but there were several layers.
Mr. D'Esposito. Yes.
Mrs. Granger. You did have to have an actual license,
because it's their risk. It's their home.
Mr. D'Esposito. Right. To that point, I think that's what's
important. I think that learning from mistakes, not just here
in Louisiana but, you know, back on Long Island and in New
York, I think that the licensing of these contractors and the
oversight of them is super important. When we're investing
billions of dollars, there should be an investment in the
oversight of these contractors as well, so that, you know, the
$2.5 billion is actually spent correctly so that we're not,
unfortunately, giving it and then giving it to some contractor
who's disappearing.
Like we talked about yesterday, you know, the Government is
not in the business of just replacing another loan because you
got had by a really bad contractor.
So I appreciate it.
My time has expired.
Mr. Carter.
Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mrs. Granger, you brought to light a question that I heard
and comments that I've heard from people regularly where
there's few advocates for small business people throughout the
State of Louisiana. When we talk about communication,
coordination, and collaboration, that's a real issue, making
sure that small businesses get what they need and that they're
not strangled waiting for payment.
You've got listening ears here. You've got listening ears
here. Tell us how we can use the resources of Congress to make
that easier, to demonstrate that we're going to use our
influence to make sure that small businesses are paid timely.
Because waiting 30, 60, 90, 120 days and beyond is not
sustainable for a small business owner. Having a tier 1, tier
2, tier 3 approach where someone gets a contract in the matter
of natural disasters, the prime gets a contract here, they
siphon off all the profit. By the time it gets down to the
person that actually does the work, there's very little profit
there, if any.
Share with me your view on how we can do better. Casey, if
you can chime in, and then we'll move down the line. Because
this is an issue that I think each of you can use your silver
bullet, if you will, to--let's figure out how we can do better
by that--small businesses can't afford to be strangled--making
sure that we provide resources for them that they can access
and maintain their businesses and not be offered at the last-
minute literally pennies on the dollar for work that they've
already completed.
Mrs. Granger. Thank you.
I think there are--in other agencies and other programs
some of those types of things you're talking about are already
there. So I think Congress and the Federal Government has done
that. For example, in the CDBG program, we do plenty of grant
work in the CDBG program, and we get paid very quickly, as do
the contractors. When the community gets paid, they have to pay
I think within 7 days. So that's one of the programs that we
know on the State and the Federal level has worked very well
with regards to payment. There's a process. They have it down
pat, never been a problem in collecting from that particular
program.
I know when you do certain types of projects for the Corps
of Engineers, they have requirements to pay within a certain
amount. If it's a small business, especially if you have a
small business sub--so if you were working for one of those
large firms, you have to be paid within a certain amount of
time.
So I think that things need to be written in disaster
funding. So when disaster funding comes out and the bill comes
out, a lot of times there are things that are either added to
it or not. So I believe that that could be put in as to here's
some requirements, but requirements--and they would have to
have, you know, from a State level what requirements they need
with regards to what they're responsible for. But I do believe
that it could be written in that if it's a small business,
and--that we're always saying and Federal procurement policy
always says use a small business, you get more points,
different things, but then they don't necessarily always
safeguard, so people might have----
Mr. Carter. Or they oftentimes use a small business to get
a contract and then--these are stories that we hear regularly--
--
Mrs. Granger. That's correct.
Mr. Carter [continuing]. That a small business, a minority,
a disadvantaged business, a woman-owned business, an African-
American-owned business is used to get the contract, to get
those scores, but then when it's time to use them, either they
don't use them or they underutilize them. Therefore, they've
gotten the benefit, but then they're throwing the resource
away. So the person who's the business owner still got the
shaft.
Mrs. Granger. Correct. We deal with that all the time where
folks will ask us and we have been on contracts where a large
firm was selected and we got no work. I have no idea how they
reported and how they were able to get funded, but they did get
contracts and we were not part of any of them.
Mr. Carter. Thank you.
Casey.
Mr. Tingle. Thank you, Ranking Member Carter. A couple of
points. One, both public assistance and hazard mitigation
funding are premised on the model that they are reimbursement
programs, and the assumption being made there is that the local
entity who's executing the project is going to be the one that
is paying the bill and then getting reimbursed for what they've
paid through the grant program.
The reality is that that's not practically how it works and
it's, in most cases, not feasible for a surge of recovery funds
to come to a local government and that their budget is going to
be able to cash-flow those things and execute a reimbursement
program.
So I think the fundamental premise needs to be revisited
that a reimbursement-based program, while on an annual grant
process may work because you've got the ability to sort-of
budget and plan for those dollars, it doesn't work in a
disaster response or recovery context because your budget is
not foreseeing that surge in funding that in some cases may
exceed your annual budget by just the funds that come from one
disaster event. That's the first point.
The second point, on the contracting piece, I would think 2
CFR here is limiting in terms of the flexibility to be able to
make some of those local decisions about procurement. What we
have done in response to that, for example, to your point, when
we executed our Ida Sheltering Program, instead of having one
prime company do all of the haul and installs, we issued
probably 8 contracts, so that we could ensure that there was
local participation, there was small business participation,
and we gave multiple firms a chance to perform and then make
assignments based upon that performance.
So I think breaking those large contracts into smaller
contracts, making them more responsive----
Mr. Carter. That helped. That helped a lot. But I'll tell
you what still needs to be a little further tweaking. So I want
to compliment you on that. But now we've got to make sure that
that tier system of tier 1, 2, 3, 4, whatever, that person at
the bottom who ends up doing the real work gets paid the
smallest amount. The people at the top tier take their money
off the top, and then they sub it out. The person that's a
local vendor, the person that's a DBE vendor, the person that
is the actual expert in the subject matter, they're left with
nothing in most cases. We've got to dive deeper into how we can
fix that tier system. I think breaking it into 8 was a good
start, but now we've got to break it a little bit further.
I know I'm far exceeding my time. Please finish your
thought.
Mr. Tingle. Just I would agree with you. I think it's more
work on the State. In this case it certainly was, but it was
worthwhile work. The less subcontracting that goes on and the
more direct contracts you have to execute that work I think is
a helpful step.
Mr. Carter. As I relinquish my time, one other comment I
want to make and then I'm going to shut up, is that we have to
make sure that we have emphasis on using local vendors in the
area where we've had the disaster. The last thing, the insult
to injury to local contractors is to watch people from other
parishes, States, and communities come in to rebuild
communities after a storm when, in fact, people that live in
those communities have the requisite skills to do it
themselves. Why not have people that live in that community
rebuild their community and also rebuild the economy?
I yield.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member.
I now recognize Mr. Thompson.
Mr. Thompson. Well, the easy answer to the contracting is,
if the person who's doing the contracting is paid the same
money for doing one contract as he would do or she would do for
8, they'll do one and watch TV and drink coffee the rest of the
day. But if you say you have to do these contracts in order to
perform, that's different. I think that's part of, I think,
what we're going to have to talk about as a committee, is how
do we do that?
The other thing about the tiering, after tier 2, FEMA
doesn't get involved in a subcommittee--in a subcontractors'
debate. So the low person on the totem pole who's doing the
work, who's getting messed over doesn't really have anybody to
complain to because there's no authority. So I think we have to
fix some of that, because we see it all the time, when a large
contractor comes in, do one sub, that sub has standing, but the
next person, out of luck.
So I just think--has that been your experience, Mr.
Robinson?
Mr. Robinson. Yes. Certainly I think that tiered approach,
like you said, the sub is a responsible contractor, what goes
on below that. I think as we had this discussion today, I think
something certainly we look at in our procurement training is
how do we talk about language in request for proposals that
kind-of keep that from happening. So certainly something we'll
take back and look at from our training perspective on how to
advise on a request for a proposal.
Mr. Thompson. Yes. The other public policy question is, in
vulnerable communities, primarily low-income, African American,
or whatever, there are very few building codes. So when you
have a disaster and, you know, here comes FEMA to the rescue,
and then you get to Rolling Fork, Mississippi, and they don't
have building codes. Then you say, Well, we can't help you
because you don't have building codes. So we spend months
trying to get that in place. But to that local person, you
know, you need help right then.
So it's been a challenge. I'm not certain what the answer
is, other than continue to try to educate the communities that,
if danger comes or disaster comes, in order for help to be on
time and responsive, you have to have this. But then you have
to have a system in place that manages it. You can't just have
it on the books, like we found in other areas. But that's been
a major frustration, especially with rural folk.
The majority of my district is rural, and people just don't
want you to tell them what to do with their own land, you know.
I raise chickens on it and my granddaddy did. So that's been a
real challenge.
But I think the Federal, State, local response, back to one
of the other comments, it has to be coordinated. The minute an
impacted community gets a different response from one of those
entities, then it runs off the rails after that. So I would
stress making sure that the coordination of the effort is
consistent in any disaster we do, because those vulnerable
communities are the ones that risk the most, because they don't
have working knowledge of how. The Katrina experience here is
the gold standard for what not to do.
I encourage all of the parties here to remember all those
horror stories we heard and saw. I would hope that at this
point, over this period of time, a lot of those issues have
been resolved, so that, God forbid, if it happens again, it
won't be to the level of what we had.
But, Mr. Chairman, I just thank you and Mr. Carter for
having the hearing. It's an expensive proposition. I have a
number of communities, this is their second disaster, and you
go tell that family, FEMA can't fix your house the second time
because we fixed it the first time. Then, you know--but they
don't have insur---I mean, it's the challenges that a lot of
communities we care a lot about are having. It's quite a
challenge, to say the least.
So I thank you again, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. D'Esposito. Thank you.
Thank you again to our witnesses. I also want to give a
sincere thanks to Southern University for hosting us, as well
as the Homeland Security staff for putting this hearing
together.
The Members of the subcommittee may have some additional
questions for the witnesses and we would ask that the witnesses
respond to these in writing. Pursuant to committee rule VII(D),
the hearing record will be held open for 10 days.
Again, thank you all very much. We appreciate your work.
Stay safe. Have a blessed holiday season.
Without objection, this subcommittee stands adjourned.
Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 9:32 a.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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