[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
LISTEN HERE: WHY AMERICANS VALUE AM RADIO
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON COMMUNICATIONS AND
TECHNOLOGY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 6, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-40
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Published for the use of the Committee on Energy and Commerce
govinfo.gov/committee/house-energy
energycommerce.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
56-268 PDF WASHINGTON : 2026
=======================================================================
COMMITTEE ON ENERGY AND COMMERCE
CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington
Chair
MICHAEL C. BURGESS, Texas FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey
ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio Ranking Member
BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky ANNA G. ESHOO, California
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia DIANA DeGETTE, Colorado
GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida JAN SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois
BILL JOHNSON, Ohio DORIS O. MATSUI, California
LARRY BUCSHON, Indiana KATHY CASTOR, Florida
RICHARD HUDSON, North Carolina JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland
TIM WALBERG, Michigan PAUL TONKO, New York
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina TONY CARDENAS, California
GARY J. PALMER, Alabama RAUL RUIZ, California
NEAL P. DUNN, Florida SCOTT H. PETERS, California
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan
DEBBBIE LESKO, Arizona MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
GREG PENCE, Indiana ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire
DAN CRENSHAW, Texas ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania NANETTE DIAZ BARRAGAN, California
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota, Vice LISA BLUNT ROCHESTER, Delaware
Chair DARREN SOTO, Florida
RANDY K. WEBER, Sr., Texas ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia KIM SCHRIER, Washington
TROY BALDERSON, Ohio LORI TRAHAN, Massachusetts
RUSS FULCHER, Idaho LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas
DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa
KAT CAMMACK, Florida
JAY OBERNOLTE, California
------
Professional Staff
NATE HODSON, Staff Director
SARAH BURKE, Deputy Staff Director
TIFFANY GUARASCIO, Minority Staff Director
Subcommittee on Communications and Technology
ROBERT E. LATTA, Ohio
Chairman
GUS M. BILIRAKIS, Florida DORIS O. MATSUI, California
TIM WALBERG, Michigan Ranking Member
EARL L. ``BUDDY'' CARTER, Georgia, YVETTE D. CLARKE, New York
Vice Chair MARC A. VEASEY, Texas
NEAL P. DUNN, Florida DARREN SOTO, Florida
JOHN R. CURTIS, Utah ANNA G. ESHOO, California
JOHN JOYCE, Pennsylvania TONY CARDENAS, California
RANDY K. WEBER, Sr., Texas ANGIE CRAIG, Minnesota
RICK W. ALLEN, Georgia LIZZIE FLETCHER, Texas
TROY BALDERSON, Ohio DEBBIE DINGELL, Michigan
RUSS FULCHER, Idaho ANN M. KUSTER, New Hampshire
AUGUST PFLUGER, Texas ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
DIANA HARSHBARGER, Tennessee FRANK PALLONE, Jr., New Jersey (ex
KAT CAMMACK, Florida officio)
JAY OBERNOLTE, California
CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, Washington
(ex officio)
C O N T E N T S
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Page
Hon. Robert E. Latta, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Ohio, opening statement..................................... 1
Prepared statement........................................... 3
Hon. Doris O. Matsui, a Representative in Congress from the State
of California, opening statement............................... 9
Prepared statement........................................... 11
Hon. Cathy McMorris Rodgers, a Representative in Congress from
the State of Washington, opening statement..................... 13
Prepared statement........................................... 15
Hon. Frank Pallone, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the
State of New Jersey, opening statement......................... 19
Prepared statement........................................... 21
Witnesses
Jerry Chapman, President, Woof Boom Radio........................ 23
Prepared statement........................................... 25
Answers to submitted questions............................... 116
Scott Schmidt, Vice President, Safety Policy, Alliance for
Automotive Innovation.......................................... 35
Prepared statement........................................... 37
Answers to submitted questions............................... 117
Christopher M. DeMaise, Commander, Homeland Security Branch, New
Jersey State Police............................................ 41
Prepared statement........................................... 43
Answers to submitted questions............................... 119
Submitted Material
Inclusion of the following was approved by unanimous consent.
List of documents submitted for the record....................... 90
Statement of Gregory J. Buchwald................................. 91
Article of May 30, 2023, ``AM Holds Up As Hurricane Hits Guam.
U.S. Navy Turns To Radio To Reach Residents.,'' Inside Radio,.. 100
Letter of June 5, 2023, from Big City Emergency Managers, et al.,
to Hon. Kevin McCarthy, et al.................................. 102
Transcript, House Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
hearing, ``The Impacts of FEMA's Strategic Plan on Disaster
Preparedness and Response,'' May 17, 2023\1\
Letter of June 5, 2023, from Mario H. Lopez, President, Hispanic
Leadership Fund, to Mrs. Rodgers and Mr. Pallone............... 104
Letter of June 5, 2023, from Troy A. Miller, President and Chief
Executive Officer, National Religious Broadcasters, to Mrs.
Rodgers........................................................ 106
Letters of December 1, 2022, from Senator Edward J. Markey to
automakers\1\
News release of February 27, 2023, ``Commissioner Simington
Underscores Need for AM Resiliency,'' Federal Communications
Commission..................................................... 107
----------
\1\ The information has been retained in committee files and is
included in the Documents for the Record at https://docs.house.gov/
meetings/IF/IF16/20230606/116046/HHRG-118-IF16-20230606-
SD298191616.pdf.
Letter of June 6, 2023, from Marta McLellan Ross, Vice President,
Government & External Affairs, National Public Radio, to Mr.
Latta and Ms. Matsui........................................... 109
Letter of June 6, 2023, from Gary Shapiro, President and Chief
Executive Officer, Consumer Technology Association, to Mr.
Latta and Ms. Matsui........................................... 111
LISTEN HERE: WHY AMERICANS VALUE AM RADIO
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TUESDAY, JUNE 6, 2023
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Communications and Technology,
Committee on Energy and Commerce,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:01 a.m. in
the John D. Dingell Room 2123, Rayburn House Office Building,
Hon. Robert E. Latta (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Members present: Representatives Latta, Bilirakis, Walberg,
Carter, Dunn, Curtis, Joyce, Weber, Allen, Balderson, Fulcher,
Pfluger, Harshbarger, Cammack, Obernolte, Rodgers (ex officio),
Matsui (subcommittee ranking member), Clarke, Veasey, Soto,
Eshoo, Cardenas, Fletcher, Dingell, Kuster, Kelly, and Pallone
(ex officio).
Also present: Representative Johnson.
Staff present: Kate Arey, Digital Director; Sarah Burke,
Deputy Staff Director; Slate Herman, Counsel, Communications
and Technology; Nate Hodson, Staff Director; Noah Jackson,
Clerk, Communications and Technology; Sean Kelly, Press
Secretary; Peter Kielty, General Counsel; Emily King, Member
Services Director; Giulia Leganski, Professional Staff Member,
Communications and Technology; John Lin, Senior Counsel,
Communications and Technology; Kate O'Connor, Chief Counsel,
Communications and Technology; Emma Schultheis, Staff
Assistant; Evan Viau, Professional Staff Member, Communications
and Technology; Hannah Anton, Minority Policy Analyst; Keegan
Cardman, Minority Intern; Anthony Choi, Minority Intern;
Jennifer Epperson, Minority Chief Counsel, Communications and
Technology; Waverly Gordon, Minority Deputy Staff Director and
General Counsel; Tiffany Guarascio, Minority Staff Director;
Perry Hamilton, Minority Member Services and Outreach Manager;
Dan Miller, Minority Professional Staff Member; Michael
Scurato, Minority FCC Detailee; Andrew Souvall, Minority
Director of Communications, Outreach, and Member Services; and
Johanna Thomas, Minority Counsel.
Mr. Latta. The Subcommittee on Communications and
Technology will come to order, and the chair recognizes himself
for 5 minutes for an opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT E. LATTA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO
And again, thank you very much to our witnesses for being
here today to examine the importance of AM radio receivers in
vehicles.
AM radio has been an integral part of our society for well
over a century, connecting Americans to local news and serving
as the backbone to our Nation's emergency communications
infrastructure. Over 45 million Americans tune into AM radio
each month. They rely on it for local news, weather, sports,
and emergency alerts. Its unique frequency characteristics
allow signals to travel far and wide, overcoming geographical
barriers and reaching both urban and remote areas. This makes
AM radio an invaluable tool during times of crisis.
When hurricanes, tornadoes, or other natural disasters
strike, AM radio remains steadfast, providing vital information
to those in affected areas when other communication channels
fail. In fact, a few years ago, when I was traveling through my
district, it came on the radio there was a tornado on the
ground. I switched to my local AM radio station playing real-
time weather alerts that allowed me to know the exact path of
the tornado. With that information, I was able to travel--
safely travel home, avoiding the storm's path.
In times of emergency, information is power, and AM radio
remains a primary source for emergency reports. Local
broadcasters have long served as the trusted voice delivering
real-time updates, weather alerts, evacuation instructions, and
other critical information that can mean the difference between
life and death.
Beyond emergency situations, AM radio plays a key role in
local news and community engagement. From news and cultural
events to sports coverage and talk shows, AM radio keeps us
connected to our communities. These stations provide a platform
for discussion, education, entertainment.
Importantly, AM radio reaches a wide demographic, ranging
from seniors to rural and underserved communities. It serves as
a source of information that is accessible to all, regardless
of socioeconomic status or access to the internet.
Today's hearing is the result of announcements made by many
auto manufacturers that they intend to remove AM radio in
certain vehicles due to the interference between the AM radio
receivers and batteries in electric vehicles.
As some manufacturers shared in response to a letter I led
last month with my colleague, the gentleman from Indiana's 6th
district, the electromagnetic waves emitted by an electric
vehicle's battery interfere with the incoming AM radio waves,
causing the sound to buzz and fade. To solve this interference,
some auto manufacturers are installing shields and filters to
protect the receiver against this interference. In other cases,
it appears that cars are equipping their new models with AM
radio capability but have it disabled. However, some automakers
are considering or are actively removing AM radio receivers
from new vehicles altogether, regardless of engine type.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about
the public safety dangers of removing AM radio, and possible
solutions to combating signal interference. Removing AM radio
receivers from vehicles means individuals may miss out on
critical life-saving updates. We must ensure that no community
is left behind, no voice is silenced, and no emergency response
is compromised.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Latta follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Latta. Again, I want to thank our witnesses for being
here, and I now recognize the ranking member of the
subcommittee, the gentlelady from the 7th District of
California, for 5 minutes for an opening statement.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. DORIS O. MATSUI, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA
Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I am glad we
are holding this hearing today. While this issue has been
gaining attention nationally, I think that this committee can
help raise awareness among consumers.
As I said in my statement announcing this hearing, AM radio
provides Americans a crucial public service. Whether that is
information during an emergency, local--or local news, or
community-specific programing, AM radio delivers for consumers.
While the media landscape continues to evolve, AM radio
remains a mainstay for millions of Americans. According to the
National Association of Broadcasters, 82 million Americans
listen to AM stations each month. For these consumers, AM radio
is indispensable. But even for those of us who aren't listening
daily, AM radio represents a critical lifeline when disaster
strikes.
Americans know all too well the need for diverse and
redundant emergency notifications. During wildfires, texts and
other mobile alerts provide information that can save lives.
But these notifications only work when mobile networks are
still intact and operational. If they fail, as we have seen
after wildfires, hurricanes, and tornadoes, we must have a
backup. That is where AM radio comes into play, because the
system is resilient and the spectrum can travel long distances.
AM radio is a reliable backbone for Emergency Alert System.
FEMA acknowledges this role when describing the Emergency Alert
System, saying, ``In many cases, radio and TV stations continue
to operate when other means of alerting the public are
unavailable, providing a layer of resiliency.'`
Many subscription services depend on internet access, and
other public warning methods rely on utility power. In
California, wildfires have destroyed cell towers and taken
utility power down over large areas. For the many California
families that have been forced to flee their homes without a
mobile signal or power, going out without AM radio would be
unthinkable and unacceptable.
Imagine in that moment, with your family in the car,
frantically looking for emergency information, only to find out
your car doesn't have an AM radio. I don't think anyone should
have that experience. With more than 330 million vehicles
registered in California, the loss of AM radio in cars would
represent a devastating setback for emergency communications.
But we know AM radio is more than just a lifeline during an
emergency. For many it represents an irreplaceable connection
to their community. As local news options grow few and far
between, AM radio offers free, hyperlocal journalism. From high
school football scores to city council coverage, AM radio can
provide consumers the local coverage they can't get anywhere
else. And in many areas, AM radio is broadcasting in Spanish,
Vietnamese, and other languages spoken in the community. So in
many ways, AM radio remains a lifeline.
As we continue to push advances in mobility, it is
important that we balance innovation with access. I am hopeful
this hearing will help us do just that.
I am excited to hear from our witnesses today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Matsui follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Ms. Matsui. And with that, I yield the balance of my time.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back the
balance of her time. The Chair now recognizes 5 minutes to the
chair of the full committee, the gentlelady from Washington.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CATHY McMORRIS RODGERS, A
REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON
Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the
witnesses for being here today.
My constituents in eastern Washington rely on AM radio. It
is how they hear the news in their communities, listen to
sports, and receive information during emergencies. In many
parts of my district, FM radio is spotty, and there is no
access to broadband. So AM radio is the only option, which is
why it is concerning that some vehicle manufacturers have taken
steps recently to remove AM radios from new car models. This is
in part a result of the Biden administration's rush to a green
agenda as they push for electric vehicles, because electric
vehicle batteries cause interference to AM frequencies,
resulting in bad reception.
The decision to remove AM radio from cars would affect tens
of millions of Americans. Some estimates suggest that more than
45 million Americans tune in to AM radio each month. While
people in some parts of the country have been able to take
advantage of alternative options in vehicles for accessing AM
radio like through a streaming service, many parts of the
country still lack access to reliable broadband services,
meaning this option is unavailable. That includes people in my
community, who are raising the alarm and sending the message
that they like AM radio. They are concerned that they would
lose access to vital information services like the National
Public Warning System.
Unlike its FM counterpart, AM radio signals travel long
distances and pass through obstacles such as buildings, hills,
and dense vegetation. These characteristics ensure that
potentially life-saving information reaches a large audience,
especially in rural areas with limited access to other forms of
communication.
The Federal Emergency Management Agency, FEMA, has also
worked to reinforce AM radio base stations to mitigate risks
resulting from events like natural disasters. And rural
communities in particular rely on the service provided by AM
radio, especially when they have only limited access to high-
speed broadband and streamed services, or they don't have any
access at all.
These services are important. They are important for
farmers and ranchers who use AM radio to receive information on
the weather, crop reports, and other vital information for
their livelihoods. AM radio fosters a sense of local identity,
connecting people through regional programming that reflects
the unique perspectives and traditions of their communities.
Local media on AM radio is closer to the people, telling the
stories and sharing the perspectives that the national news
doesn't always cover and sometimes ignores. And it plays a
crucial role in government accountability, acting as a watchdog
for local school boards, county officials, regional courts, and
other government bodies.
Further, AM radio continues to be a key outlet for talk
radio shows to connect with audiences across the country. Rush
Limbaugh, for example, had around 15 million listeners tuning
in each week to his show, which was broadcast across 650
stations at its peak. These are vital sources of information
that keep people engaged and connected to their local
community, region, and voices and perspectives they value in
their lives. Whether they are tuning in for the local news,
agricultural or weather reports, information during an
emergency, or to listen to their favorite talk show
personality, AM radio continues to be a popular way for
Americans to stay connected.
I look forward to our discussion today, and I am grateful
for our experts for being here on the panel to share our goal
to both celebrate American innovation and ensure people can use
this critical communications tool and listen to AM radio
stations important to them.
[The prepared statement of Mrs. Rodgers follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Rodgers. I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the ranking member of the full committee,
the gentleman from New Jersey, for 5 minutes.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. FRANK PALLONE, Jr., A REPRESENTATIVE
IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY
Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman Latta. AM radio stations
play a critical role in our Nation's communications network,
and that is why I was so concerned when some automakers
recently announced that they were planning to phase out AM
radio from their electric vehicle models.
I know firsthand how important AM radio can be during an
emergency. In October 2012, after pummeling the Caribbean,
Superstorm Sandy slammed the New Jersey coast with 80-mile-per-
hour sustained winds and rain. There was extensive flooding and
damage along the coasts of New Jersey and New York, including
many of the beach and bay shore towns in my district. States as
far west as Kentucky suffered power outages that lasted for
days. Communications infrastructure was heavily damaged,
including 25 percent of cellular towers across 10 States.
Now, some of my constituents went days without power and
telephone and internet connections, largely isolated and
seeking whatever information they could get. A number of them
relied on broadcast AM radio stations to get up-to-the-minute
information, like where to get water, gas, and groceries. And
in some cases their best source for an AM radio was their
vehicle. So that is why I was so troubled to learn that EV
manufacturers had made the unilateral decision to remove AM
radio from their cars and, as I understand it, without notice,
to consumers who have, for the most part, gotten used to having
AM radio as part of a standard auto package.
I am proud of this committee's bipartisan work to encourage
and promote more resilient communications networks, including
my SANDy Act.
And with the growing prevalence and reliability of wireless
alerting systems, some people may wonder why we are concerned
about the loss of AM tuners in cars, particularly given newer
technology like satellites and IP networks. The answer is that
AM has proven its value in emergency situations, which is
particularly important now, as the worsening climate crisis
unleashes new and more powerful storms around the country.
Despite our continued efforts to make cellular towers and
equipment more resilient, they are still vulnerable during
extreme weather events. Last week, when a typhoon hit Guam,
preliminary press reports suggested that many cellular towers
and FM stations throughout the island were knocked out, but AM
stations stayed on the air. AM radio broadcast stations are the
backbone of the Emergency Alert System infrastructure, which
delivers critical safety alerts during public emergencies.
During cellular network outages, AM broadcast frequencies are
still able to travel 100 miles or more to deliver public safety
communications. So it is no wonder that seven former Federal
Emergency Management Agency Administrators wrote to
Transportation Secretary Buttigieg earlier this year, urging
the Federal Government to seek assurances from auto
manufacturers to preserve AM radio access in vehicles for
public safety.
And we can't be satisfied by reliance on emergency content
delivered through internet or satellite services that require a
subscription or data plans. These services put consumers on the
hook for additional monthly or annual costs. The government
makes our country's electromagnetic airwaves available at no
charge to broadcasters, who then carry these important alerts
and messages to the public at no cost. So we must ensure this
vital information is free to consumers.
Now, thankfully, AM content is not just emergency and
disaster information. For most of the time, broadcast
programming content runs the gamut. In fact, according to the
FCC, AM stations are more likely than FM stations or other
kinds of media outlets to be owned by women and Black or
Hispanic Americans. As we look to increase media diversity, we
should keep in mind that AM radio is an important part of our
Nation's multicultural media programing.
These are the main reasons that we simply cannot allow EV
manufacturers now or in the future to remove AM radio from
their EV models.
So I want to thank Chairs Rodgers and Latta, Ranking Member
Matsui, also Mr. Pence for, you know, basically taking the lead
in holding this important hearing and dealing with this issue.
I also would like to introduce Lieutenant Colonel Chris
DeMaise, who was the commanding officer of the emergency
management section of the New Jersey Office of Emergency
Management.
Thanks for being here today.
Over the years, he has also led emergency responses to
hurricanes and other disasters throughout the country.
So we appreciate your joining us today to share your
expertise and perspective on the importance of AM radio to
emergency management. And thank you for all that you do for New
Jersey.
Now, of course, I have been mentioning New Jersey quite a
bit, but I don't think there is anything I said that doesn't
apply to the rest of the country, as well, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Pallone follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Pallone. I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much. The gentleman yields
back the balance of his time.
We want to thank our witnesses for being with us today and
taking the time to testify before the subcommittee.
You will have the opportunity to give an opening statement,
followed by a round of questions from the Members.
I would like to note for our witnesses that you will see
the timer boxes right there in front of you so that when the
light will turn yellow you will have 1 minute remaining, and
when it turns red your time has expired.
One other thing I would like to note is that we have a
second subcommittee on Energy and Commerce running today, so we
have Members that will be stepping out to go to that
committee--subcommittee upstairs. So it is not that people are
just leaving, they just have to go to another subcommittee. So
I just want to alert you to that.
We have three witnesses for the hearing today, including
Mr. Jerry Chapman, president of Woof Boom Radio; Mr. Scott
Schmidt, vice president of safety policy, Alliance for
Automotive Innovation; and Lieutenant Colonel Christopher
DeMaise, homeland security branch commander, New Jersey State
Police.
And again, we appreciate you all being here today, and we
look forward to your testimony.
And Mr. Chapman, you are recognized for 5 minutes for your
opening statement.
STATEMENTS OF JERRY CHAPMAN, PRESIDENT, WOOF BOOM RADIO; SCOTT
SCHMIDT, VICE PRESIDENT, SAFETY POLICY, ALLIANCE FOR AUTOMOTIVE
INNOVATION; AND LIEUTENANT COLONEL CHRISTOPHER M. DeMAISE,
COMMANDER, HOMELAND SECURITY BRANCH, NEW JERSEY STATE POLICE
STATEMENT OF JERRY CHAPMAN
Mr. Chapman. Good morning, Chairs Latta and McMorris
Rodgers, Ranking Members Matsui and Pallone, and members of
this subcommittee. My name is J Chapman. I am the president and
owner of Woof Boom Radio. We operate 12 radio stations serving
Indiana and Ohio. Three of those radio stations are AM radio
stations. In Lima it is WCIT, in Anderson it is WHBU, and in
Muncie it is WMUN.
I also appreciate the opportunity to testify on behalf of
the National Association of Broadcasters and more than 6,400
local television and radio stations that provide free and
valuable service to our hometowns every day.
I would like to take a quick moment and share a personal
story about the role of AM in times of a crisis. In June of
2009 I was the general manager of a group of radio stations in
Rockford, Illinois. I was returning home that evening with our
11-year-old daughter, and she looked to the sky to the south
and she saw a glow. The--a few minutes earlier, before that, a
train, a Canadian National train going through a suburb in
southern Rockford, had derailed. It was a train carrying 2
million gallons of ethanol at the time. Nineteen of the cars
derailed, some of those cars leaked, and there was a fire that
resulted quickly after that. That fire ensnared the cars at a
crossing that was right by that, and quickly, people were
injured. And unfortunately, that day a life was lost.
Within minutes of that derailment, our radio stations
started broadcasting news of it to the community and telling
people what they needed to do. We worked closely with local
officials to coordinate a response and direct people to safety.
It was our AM radio station that night, WNTA in Rockford,
Illinois, that got people to safety and explained what they
needed to do that evening. As bad as it was, if it was not for
the emergency management officials that night working with
everybody throughout that area, it would have been much more
tragic.
I can tell you that AM radio that evening played a very
important role in doing something that a cell phone delivering
a text message cannot do at that time. AM radio explains, gives
fabric and understanding to an emergency situation.
The AM radio stations also play a central role in our
Emergency Alert System. The vast majority of the AM radio
stations--or the PEP stations, which are the primary entry
point, which fires at the beginning of a presidential alert,
are AM radio stations. These stations have been selected
because many of them have a coverage area of some 700 miles. AM
radio stations also penetrate solid objects like mountains.
FEMA has invested millions to make these stations withstand
natural disasters and acts of terrorism. But the stations
themselves are responsible in those moments for operating in
times of crisis.
A car is oftentimes the only source of power and news
during an emergency. People depend on that. Unlike the internet
and cell phones, which oftentimes go down in a moment of
crisis, the AM radio stations and radio in general stays up
during that.
Despite AM's critical role, some of the automakers have
removed it from electric vehicles, and there are also
discussions to remove it from internal combustion cars.
Broadcasters want to thank Chairman Latta and
Representative Greg Pence and multiple members of this
subcommittee for sending a letter to the automakers signaling
the importance. Local broadcasters were also pleased as a
result of this letter that Ford announced a decision to reverse
its course. We applaud that decision.
A bipartisan bill has also been introduced, and like other
safety requirements, the AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act would
preserve AM radio in cars by requiring the Transportation
Secretary to issue a rule under which motor vehicles would be
required to include a device that can receive AM. Broadcasters,
of course, support this legislation.
In conclusion, this is not a zero sum game. We can protect
Americans the way we always have with the dependable system of
EAS that works in times of emergency. We also can protect the
interference to electronics and the occupants of cars, as
automakers have done for many years. This moment right now is
too important not to take this action.
Thank you again for the opportunity to appear today, and I
look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Chapman follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Latta. Well, thank you, Mr. Chapman.
Mr. Schmidt, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF SCOTT SCHMIDT
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you. Chairman Latta, Ranking Member
Matsui, Chair McMorris Rodgers, and Ranking Member Pallone, and
distinguished members of the committee, on behalf of the
Alliance for Automotive Innovation and our members, I thank you
for the opportunity to appear at this hearing today to share
our perspectives on AM radios in motor vehicles, and consumer
access to emergency alerts.
Alliance for Automotive Innovation was formed in 2020 and
represents the full auto industry, a sector supporting 10
million American jobs and 5 percent of the economy. As the
leading voice of the auto industry, auto innovators appreciates
the continued engagement with your offices regarding consumer
safety and the importance of consumer access to emergency
alerts in motor vehicles.
Our mission is to deliver a cleaner, safer, and smarter
automotive future, and we take the safety of consumers and
public seriously. We remain committed to ensuring drivers have
access to free public alerts and safety warnings through the
Federal Emergency Management Agency system known as the
Integrated Public Alert and Warning System, IPAWS.
Access to emergency alerts under IPAWS is not limited to
just one mode of communication. IPAWS was created to provide
integrated services and capabilities to Federal, State,
Territorial, Tribal, and local authorities and enable effective
alerts to all communities. IPAWS's mission contemplates
multiple methods, including mobile phones via wireless
emergency alerts; radio in terms of analog, digital, and
satellite; and television via the Emergency Alert System and on
the NOAA's Weather Radio.
The system was designed to provide redundant alert
mechanisms, assuring the public has access to multiple outlets
to receive these critical alerts. The intent is for the public
to not have to rely on a single source to receive the alerts.
Rather, the goal is to create a safety net of information
sources. The more the better.
Importantly, while access to emergency alerts is not
limited to vehicles, drivers today are able to take advantage
of the IPAWS safety network. Regardless of whether these
vehicles are equipped with a factory-installed AM radio,
vehicles can receive alerts through AM digital or hi-def radio,
FM, both analog and digital, and satellite radio. Mobile
wireless emergency alerts are also available in vehicles
through connectivity to smartphones.
Simply put, vehicles today offer a host of options for
consumers to receive critical emergency alerts. Consumer trends
show that 90 percent of today's cars come with factory-
installed systems like Apple CarPlay, Android Auto, and
satellite radio.
With technology and new methods of reaching the public,
Congress and Federal agencies have taken actions to modernize
the national alert system to ensure that these systems can
adapt to shifting consumer preferences and include emerging
technologies. Congress has already directed FEMA to modernize
and future-proof the system, including emerging technologies.
What is more, the FCC has noted challenges with analog
radio's steady decline in listenership and reception issues.
Finally, the IPAWS Program Management Office Strategic Plan
emphasizes the challenges for the system as the public moves
from radio and television as their primary mode of news.
Technology advancements in the way the public consumes
information is consistently evolving, and IPAWS has made its
goal to find ways to communicate with the program and public
however and wherever they receive the information.
There are many reasons why automakers make decisions in
vehicle design and features, even when there is no mandate to
include it, which is in the case--this is the case with AM
radios. At the end of the day, automakers consider a variety of
factors when designing and constructing cars, including
prioritizing safety, efficiency, and addressing consumer
preferences.
The auto industry is pro-innovation. We are committed to
ensuring drivers have access to free public alerts and safety
warnings through IPAWS. Both the Federal Government and the
automotive industry recognize that the ways in which consumers
receive information will change over time.
As innovation in the auto industry continues and new
innovations are developed, the Federal Government and industry
must work together to modernize IPAWS and continue to
incorporate new technologies. Doing so will ensure we
collectively provide the best, most capable, and resilient
technologies to the public while also strengthening public
safety.
On behalf of auto innovators and our member companies, I
look forward to working with Congress and the administration to
foster a landscape that serves the interests and safety of all
Americans. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Schmidt follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Latta. Well, thank you, Mr. Schmidt.
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, you are recognized for 5
minutes for your opening statement.
STATEMENT OF CHRISTOPHER M. DeMAISE
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Good morning, Chairman Latta and
distinguished members of the subcommittee. On behalf of Colonel
Patrick J. Callahan of the New Jersey State Police, who also
serves as the State director of emergency management, I thank
you for the opportunity to testify here today about this
important issue and to deliver some opening remarks.
I am Lieutenant Colonel Christopher DeMaise, commander of
the Homeland Security Branch of the New Jersey State Police. I
also serve as the deputy State director of emergency management
and have oversight of the New Jersey Office of Emergency
Management.
I am accompanied today by Mitchell Stetson, who is a member
of NJOEM's communications bureau and subject matter expert in
emergency alerts and warning. I may be drawing upon his
knowledge to answer some of your questions this morning.
As set forth in the following testimony, NJOEM strongly
supports the proposed AM Radio for Every Vehicle Act. The life-
saving value of AM radio clearly outweighs the incremental
costs to improve AM reception in electric vehicles. NJOEM
stands with our partners at the National Emergency Management
Association, NEMA, in voicing our clear support for this bill.
During the last few years, an uptick in severe weather
events and forest fires has been concerning, not just in New
Jersey but across the country. At the same time, we have been
seeing an increase in cyber crimes, active shooter incidents,
and terrorist threats. In the face of this increasing threat
scenario, alert and warning is the best tool we have to ensure
the safety of our residents and to provide critical information
before, during, and after disaster. This can include
information needed while individuals are driving during a
large-scale evacuation or during a power outage, when
individuals sit in their car to listen to essential
communications.
AM radio is a primary component of the Nation's Emergency
Alert System. The emergency management community at all levels,
in tandem with the private sector and broadcasting companies,
has collectively devoted countless funds and personnel hours to
ensure all members of the public can receive critical public
safety information in a timely fashion. AM radio is embedded
into the alert and warning and public information protocols
that we have. NJOEM and our colleagues across the Nation have
developed and continue to develop plans that rely in part on
continued access to AM radio.
New Jersey is a very diverse State, with rural farming
communities, beach towns, and major urban areas. The extensive
reach of AM radio's signals and its high user acceptance ensure
delivery to the widest audience possible.
As a free resource, AM radio provides essential
connectivity for many vulnerable members of underserved
populations who may not have the financial or other means to
access internet-based or wireless communications. Public
sources report that one-third of AM radio users are aged 65 and
older, the same age group that may be less likely to
demonstrate proficiency with other forms of internet and
smartphone applications.
In some cases, AM radio stations may serve specific
cultural and ethnic groups. The emergency management community
is under a mandate to reassess and ensure that services are
being provided to these traditionally underserved communities,
and this is not the time to restrict access to AM radio in
vehicles.
In addition to serving as a primary communication mode, AM
radio fills the need for redundancy as a backup for other
primary communication methods when there is a failure of
technology or an underlying power or internet outage caused by
severe weather event or human caused condition. This
requirement for redundancy is a basic tenet of emergency
management, and has well served this Nation for decades. We are
reminded of this with every hurricane, every tornado, and every
snowstorm.
Our belief is that AM radio is a critical source of
information to our citizens during a crisis. We are investing
in new technology to communicate emergency messaging in a
variety of languages to our radio users, and AM radio services
have the ability to deliver these messages to wherever people
are: at home, in the car. When disaster strikes, no one should
lose access to this essential information because the vehicle
being driven does not have AM radio.
Thank you for your time, and I look forward to questions
today.
[The prepared statement of Lt. Col. DeMaise follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Latta. Well, thank you very much for your testimony
today, and that will conclude our testimony from our witnesses
this morning. And I will begin the questioning this morning and
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
One of my concerns is how little notice has been given to
consumers about the removal of AM radios in vehicles. Some
companies claim to have announced the phase-out of AM radios,
but we have also heard reports that consumers are not aware
that their new car doesn't have AM radio until after they have
left the auto lot. In fact, a dealership in my district even
told me that they had no idea about the change.
And I am--I also want to say thanks to Ford for its change,
saying that AM radio will be put back in their vehicles and
also being able to be downloaded in vehicles that are already
off the line or have been sold to consumers.
Mr. Schmidt, should vehicle manufacturers be responsible to
alert consumers when AM radio, a critical safety function of
the vehicle, is not included in a model before it is purchased?
Mr. Schmidt. Can you repeat that a little louder? I did
have a hard time----
Mr. Latta. Right. Should vehicle manufacturers be
responsible to alert consumers when AM radio, a critical safety
function in the vehicle, is not included in that model before
it is purchased?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes. I mean, unfortunately, I cannot comment
on individual--what manufacturers can do, but I can certainly
reinforce the fact that our members view that there are more
options for delivering content and alerts now in vehicles than
there ever were and that we are committed to providing these
alerts free of charge to our customers through those vehicles.
Mr. Latta. Thank you.
Mr. Chapman, how do you think the removal of AM radios from
your car--from cars will lessen the reach and local impact of
your broadcast channel?
Mr. Chapman. Chairman Latta, thank you for that question.
It will absolutely impact our reach in a significant way.
Most of the radio listening is done in the car. This is a
business concern for many of our businesses in, say, Delphos.
We have people that were the primary source of advertising for
them, so they come to us to move their products. So there is,
obviously, a business reason for us, but there is a business
reason for the community.
And in addition to that, if AM radio is not in cars, it is
the primary point that begins the alert system, so it is a
safety issue too. People won't be able to hear the alerts the
way the EAS system is set up.
Mr. Latta. I know it is a little bit early for me for
everything to be noticed out there with the change, but have
you noticed a change in listenership right now in your station
or stations?
Mr. Chapman. So Chairman Latta, at this point it is very
early in the process. We have not seen changes, but I can tell
you it will be significant because the radio is the primary
entry point for people listening to it, and that is where
people consume most of the radio. And so if it is not in the
car, it would be a significant issue for people hearing alerts
or hearing news from local businesses.
Mr. Latta. Well, let me follow up. We hear from many auto
manufacturers about how streaming AM radio is the future and
there will no longer be a need for an analog or HD AM radio.
What are your thoughts on that characterization?
Mr. Chapman. So for example, all of the Woof Boom stations
stream. But I can also tell you that streaming is part of our
future, but it is not all of our future. As consumers listen to
the stream, they might be hearing in an area that is far off.
And so if they are hearing that stream, they are not getting
EAS alerts for the area that are important, that is the area of
where they are actually residing at the time.
And so one of our concerns, if it is only streaming, we are
still running outside of the structure of the EAS system. EAS
works with AM radio because AM radio can work in times where
the power has gone away. AM radio can work in times of
disaster, whether there are hurricanes or tornadoes. And if a
station is streaming, it is delivered over the internet and--
which is dependent on the power grid, and also other factors
when cell networks go down. This is all part of streaming. So
it is not a substitute for what we have, which is our primary
delivery system.
Mr. Latta. Well, thank you.
Lieutenant Colonel, let me ask in my last 25 seconds here,
when you do your planning--because years ago, when I was a
county commissioner, with our emergency management we always
had planning sessions--do you plan for, if the internet goes
down, what happens then in your communications?
I am sorry, you have about 12 seconds left.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Absolutely, sir. We have to plan for
every contingency, because Murphy's Law is governing much of
our business. And failure of those networks is anticipated.
Mr. Latta. All right. Well, I appreciate that, and I thank
our witnesses.
And my time has expired, and the Chair now recognizes the
ranking member of the subcommittee, the gentlelady from
California, for 5 minutes.
Ms. Matsui. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I think about the AM radio, and it is something that most
of us have grown up with. And there are a lot of things that we
take for granted in this country, and probably AM radio is one
of them. And not only do we think about it in listening to
radios in cars and things like that, but the fact of the matter
today is that, as we look at communications, it has become a
very vital part of what we do, and for emergency purposes.
In rural areas like parts of my district, cell service can
be spotty and simply nonexistent. In these areas, alternative
methods of communications help ensure that all residents have
access to information when and where they need it--and I must
say not only in rural areas too, but in urban areas of which I
have a great part of also.
What I was thinking about is that--can you describe,
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, the limitations of the other
Emergency Alert Systems when cell service or power goes down?
And I think we can imagine it, but how that would happen.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question, ma'am.
Certainly.
During these weather events that we have experienced in New
Jersey and nationally with high winds, destructive forces such
as earthquakes, and other just--snow load and heavy rains, we
have lost cellular communications pretty frequently. And
unfortunately, we have become so devoted to them that we kind
of lose sight of the fact that we do need to rely on other
mechanisms to communicate with the public.
So as mentioned in Chairman Latta's question, I wasn't able
to quite, you know, maybe expand upon we require that
redundancy to make sure that we can communicate with all of the
community. And the AM radio platform certainly has such a broad
reach and is reliable and robust that we have leveraged that
many, many times to communicate with a broad spectrum of people
in both those rural areas and in the urban areas throughout the
State.
Ms. Matsui. Right, absolutely. The frequency used by AM
radio is different than FM or those used to power our phones.
While they have some limitations, they also have strengths that
have helped AM radio reach consumers across the country.
Mr. Chapman, can you describe the unique characteristics of
AM radio frequencies and why they are so well suited to
emergency announcements?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you, Congresswoman. The AM band is
somewhat different than, for example, the FM band. AM waves are
much longer. The FM waves are much shorter. And in layman's
terms what this means is they can travel greater distances,
they can also penetrate things like hills, mountains, and such.
And so many years ago, when FEMA and broadcasters decided
what do we want as the primary point to activate the Emergency
Alert System, they selected AM stations for this very reason.
So the entry point to begin a national alert is primarily AM
stations. And, for example, the one that is in my area that
reaches all of the Midwest is WLW, and it covers some 17
States. And this is the reason AM is so central to the EAS.
Ms. Matsui. All right, thank you very much. I am trying--
local economy, whether on TV or radio, local broadcasters
provide opportunities for smaller businesses to reach consumers
in their community, especially in smaller media markets. This
can be an engine for economic growth.
Mr. Chapman, can you talk about the opportunities AM radio
provides for smaller, local businesses?
How would those opportunities be limited if AM radio were
removed from all vehicles?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
Once again, it is a question of access. And so I mentioned
a radio station that we have in Anderson, Indiana. During the
middle of COVID, we went on the air and, you know, in the old
days of doing a radiothon we started selling cards, gift cards
to businesses to put the money back into the community. So that
is central, how it is the economic engine a lot of times. And
that is an easy example to understand.
One that is also important is there is diverse listening
that was mentioned somewhat earlier. I was fortunate a number
of years ago to be a general sales manager for a Black gospel
station in Indianapolis, and that radio station was central to
that community, not only the businesses but the information
that was communicated to the people that listened to that radio
station. So it was important as they saw the information that
came through the radio at that time as credible and reliable.
And that is an important relationship that exists between a
radio station and its listener base.
Ms. Matsui. OK, thank you very much.
And I yield back.
Mr. Latta. I thank the gentlelady. She yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida for 5 minutes.
Mr. Bilirakis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is a very
important hearing. I appreciate you holding this. And also, I
want to thank the ranking member. And thanks for the testimony,
as well, from the panel.
As we kick off hurricane season this month, I am reminded
of the all-too-familiar situation for residents in my State of
Florida. The electric is out, the internet is down, the cell
phone coverage is shoddy at best. And if people heard my PSAs
over the years, they would know to have an emergency handheld
radio at the ready. But if not, they head to their cars to
reestablish a connection to their community, hear about the
devastation of the storm, and heed any direction from emergency
service authorities.
So my question, the first question, is to Lieutenant
Colonel--to the lieutenant colonel: What benefits do AM signals
have over FM signals during and in the aftermath of a natural
disaster such as a hurricane?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. AM signals, in and of themselves, have
much broader reach, as mentioned before in prior testimony here
today, that they can reach greater distances than the FM
signals can. So we can penetrate some of those more rural
areas. But also, as mentioned, the ability to also penetrate,
you know, buildings within some of those urban centers is--
makes it certainly a little bit more amenable to those types of
messaging.
Mr. Bilirakis. Very good, thank you. In 2016, legislation I
authored to modernize the FEMA's IPAWS system became law. That
legislation improved the effectiveness of the texting system
for future emergency situations and implemented training
requirements for State officials. It also relied heavily on the
emergency alarm system and AM radio signals to work quickly and
effectively.
So again, Lieutenant Colonel, in your professional
capacity, do you foresee potential delays to emergency
information getting to citizens as a result of lesser access to
AM radios?
And is it possible to replicate our EAS system without the
use of AM signals?
And this is so very important, as you know. I mean, we
could lose lives without the AM radio. So please, if you could
respond to that, I would appreciate it very much.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you, Congressman. Yes, so I would
agree that to lose the access to AM radio signals certainly
would impede the messaging getting out, whether it is a
cellular network collapse, a power outage that impacts the
cellular infrastructure, the potential is that those messages
in text form would be cached and not delivered directly to the
people that might need them.
Certainly, we need all platforms available to our residents
because, you know, some people are more comfortable listening
to AM radio stations to obtain their information, and we want
to have all messaging platforms available. So any delays in
getting that message out in that critical moment certainly
could be a matter of life and death as a part of the Emergency
Alert System.
Mr. Bilirakis. Absolutely. And then getting into the
entertainment aspect, people are used to--particularly in the
rural areas, and I represent rural areas, not all of my
district, but quite a bit, two counties, and they are used to--
the people are used to listening to AM radio. That is where
they get their news.
And I tell you what, if we don't save AM radio, Mr.
Chairman, I will tell you what, it would be very devastating
for a lot of people, particularly our seniors. And I will add
that I love to listen to AM radio, listen to baseball games.
And it--radio is--actually, baseball is a radio sport if you
can't go to the game. So that is from a selfish point of view.
But in any case, this is a serious issue, and I really
appreciate you having this hearing. I will yield back the
balance of my time.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
But I think your team is doing better than it did last
year.
Mr. Bilirakis. My team is doing pretty well.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Bilirakis. Two first-place teams, the Rays and the
Pirates.
Mr. Latta. Well, there we go. Thank you very much. The
Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California's 16th
district for 5 minutes.
Ms. Eshoo. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
ranking member for holding this hearing today. Thank you to the
witnesses.
There is no question that many Americans value AM radio,
which is why it has been a standard feature in cars for so many
years. While drivers now have several options for listening to
music, podcasts, and other entertainment while driving, the
backlash to Ford removing AM radio, which they have now walked
back, shows there is still a really robust consumer demand for
this feature.
Just as importantly, I think this episode shows that
automakers are responsive to the demand. That is how the free
market is supposed to work. While there are many features that
drivers may want in their cars, the only ones mandated by the
Federal Government are those intended to keep us safe.
Two of the witnesses today have endorsed legislation
mandating AM radio as a safety feature to ensure the public can
receive emergency alerts during natural disasters and other
emergencies. NHTSA has more than a dozen outstanding safety
regulations mandated by Congress that it has yet to implement,
and some of them have been pending for more than a decade. I
think the Energy and Commerce Committee needs to get after
NHTSA. Before we add to that list, I think we need to be sure
that any additional mandates are truly needed to improve safety
and save lives on the road.
To Colonel DeMaise, is AM radio the only means for--or
primary means by which drivers can receive emergency alerts
through the Integrated Public Alerts and Warning System?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question,
Congresswoman.
They can receive messaging through the FM system as well.
And also, if they have a cellular device available to them,
certainly they can receive messaging through that platform as
well.
Ms. Eshoo. Thank you.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Through the wireless Emergency Alert
System.
Ms. Eshoo. Thank you.
To Mr. Schmidt, what are the potential unintended
consequences of Congress mandating the use of a specific
technology to receive emergency alerts?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for the question. Yes. As you are
well aware, mandates and regulations are blunt instruments, and
so it is important that we look at the cost and benefit over a
future. And one of the things that FEMA has noted is that there
is declining listenership. And part of the whole IPAWS system
is looking at the future in terms of what new technologies are
going to be able to supplement, maybe AM--potentially, in the
future, even replace AM--and also to deliver more effective
alerts.
So we are very technology agnostic in the sense that we are
looking for delivering the alerts to our members, our customers
as efficiently as possible, as broadly as possible, in the most
efficient manner and in a manner that is not going to decline
in the future and will provide the benefits well into the
future. Thank you.
Ms. Eshoo. Is there a--this is to any of the witnesses--is
there a technology-neutral approach Congress can take to ensure
that all drivers have access to emergency alerts?
Yes.
Mr. Chapman. If--Congresswoman, if I may answer that----
Ms. Eshoo. Sure.
Mr. Chapman [continuing]. For a second, FEMA, many years
ago, as they were constructing the current model for the EAS
plan, used AM radio stations as--and I referenced this
earlier--as the primary entry point. And they did that for a
couple of reasons.
Number one, we have already talked about the distances that
AM radio stations travel, but it is also some of the
characteristics. So in the event of a significant disaster that
we haven't experienced, these stations reach more than 90
percent of the United States. So they are the central point.
And so there is not another technology or another medium right
now that is ready to step in and replace that.
Ms. Eshoo. Any other witness care to----
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Congresswoman, I agree with his
statement. It really is, as was mentioned by several witnesses
today, stating that it is the backbone of the Emergency Alert
System. It is the most consistent, dependable platform with
which we have to communicate with the public.
Mr. Schmidt. Yes, I just--kind of just make a mention that,
you know, the--my understanding from reading some of the FEMA
documents is that the EAS system is a fairly cost-intensive
system to maintain. And I think the key thing is how do we make
that more cost effective as we move forward. And as we look at
technologies that may be declining, we need to find
alternatives that can address that in a more cost-efficient
manner and still deliver the safety benefits.
Ms. Eshoo. Why is it so expensive?
Mr. Schmidt. I don't know. I just noted in their--well,
first off, I think the idea is that you have these hardened
stations. And like I said, they are not just AM stations, they
are other stations. And I don't have the specifics on that, but
it is in the--in their documents. And if you want, I can
probably pull that reference and get it back to you, if that
would be helpful.
Ms. Eshoo. I would appreciate that.
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you.
Ms. Eshoo. Thank you to the witnesses.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Latta. The gentlelady's time has expired and yields
back. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady of the full
committee for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
In the announcement--Mr. Schmidt, in the announcement Ford
made on May 23rd, they stated, ``For any owners of 2023 Ford
EVs currently without AM broadcast capability, we will offer an
over-the-air software update to make it available.'`
How was Ford able to turn on AM broadcast capability with
the flip of a switch, while other car manufacturers are not?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for the question. Let me give you
Ford's--what they have told us, and I think they mentioned this
to the committee as well. Because in their May 23rd
announcement, CEO Jim Farley announced that, after speaking
with policy leaders about the importance of AM broadcast radio
as a part of the Emergency Alert System, Ford decided to
include it on all 2024 Ford and Lincoln vehicles. And for any
owners of 2023 model year Ford EVs that did not initially offer
AM radio, they will offer a software update.
It is my understanding from discussions with Ford
representatives that Ford started removing AM radio by
disabling the software while they worked to--on a longer lead
time modification that would actually remove the hardware. So
for those models, Ford can enable the AM radio by--via the
over-the-air update.
However, I can't really speak to any of the--Ford's plans
for post-2024 at this point.
Mrs. Rodgers. Are you aware of any other auto manufacturers
who are choosing not to provide AM radio despite having the
technology and the capability to do so?
Mr. Schmidt. I haven't--we haven't done a census to see
which vehicle manufacturers are or are not. This has been
something that manufacturers look at customer preferences very
closely, and so they do a lot of market research and try to
determine what--how to deliver the most value to their
customers.
Mrs. Rodgers. OK, thank you. Do you have--do you--do any of
the companies in your group plan to charge extra for AM/FM
radios and cars through a subscription service?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes, I really can't talk about, you know,
content. I can talk about the safety.
And so we are committed to providing free alerts. As far as
the content, as you know, in any--in this realm there is a lot
of free content, a lot of subscription content for everything.
So again, that is a consumer preference, a marketing thing that
our manufacturers look at.
But I can say that--reaffirm that we are committed to
ensuring drivers have access to free public alerts and safety
warnings through the IPAWS system. Thank you.
Mrs. Rodgers. OK, thank you.
Mr. Chapman, a large portion of the most popular AM radio
shows feature either conservative or religious content. From
your perspective, what effect will the removal of AM radios
from cars have on the diversity of thought in the broadcasting
space?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you for that question, Congresswoman. I
will pull on a couple of examples.
I have a station in Muncie, Indiana. It is WMUN. We
recently reprogramed this station. It is somewhat cost-
intensive, but we focus on local community issues. It is
important that we have a place for the fourth estate to act, to
talk about public issues.
Like a lot of the communities in the Rust Belt, this town
has been somewhat challenged over the years. But if there is
not the place with the declining forms of other media to
discuss these things, we can't depend on social media to help a
community shape its decision. So it is a role that we need to
play, as a broadcaster, and that is something that AM stations
do really well.
I had referenced a little bit earlier that when I was a
general sales manager of an urban-formatted station in
Indianapolis, we worked very hard to address issues that were
specific to our station and our audience. I have got a good
friend who operates a radio station, he is a member of NABOB in
Evansville, Indiana, Ed Lander, WEOA, and his station puts
information out that would not be received by his listeners in
that community because there are not other sources for it.
So the diversity of voice and the diversity of thought is
very important, and the AM band does that better than any of
our other vehicles.
Mrs. Rodgers. Thank you for those insights. Another
question. The U.S. has invested significant capital into
hardening certain AM radio broadcast stations to prepare for a
variety of crisis scenarios. Can you speak to what goes into
the process of hardening an AM station?
Mr. Chapman. So as a--thank you again for the question. As
a general rule, each station, each opportunity for FEMA and
that broadcaster is unique.
For example, if it is a station that is on the Gulf, it
might be on stilts and up in the air if a hurricane comes
through. That is to protect it, because in the past, when that
has happened--for example, during Katrina--stations were not
able to stay on. So that investment has been made.
Generally, with any PEP station--which is, again, the
primary entry point--30 to 60 days of alternate power are at
each one of those facilities. So it is very different than
might--a station in the Midwest that might be set up to survive
some type of a terrorist act, such as an EMP or something like
that. That is a lead-encased facility. So it depends on the
radio station.
And I know that is not a direct answer, but each one of
these stations is somewhat different in terms of its
requirements.
Mrs. Rodgers. OK. Thank you.
Thank you, everyone. I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentleman from New Jersey, the ranking
member of the full committee, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Pallone. Thank you, Chairman.
In times of emergency, with the stakes so high, we can't
ignore the fact that reducing the number of platforms and
technologies available to us for warning the public makes the
job of emergency managers and first responders that much more
difficult. So let me ask Colonel DeMaise.
Why is AM radio a critical piece of the public warning
system in New Jersey?
And why is it shortsighted to reduce the number of options
available to public officials for communicating with the public
in future disasters?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you, Congressman. The redundancy,
as a major tenet of emergency management, is something, you
know, we try to focus in on. We need to have multiple platforms
available to us, whether it is power delivery, we have
generators or other sources of energy for homes, water--being
bottled water, water buffaloes, et cetera--and from a
communication standpoint, we want the maximum amount of
platforms available that meets the users where they are at.
The AM radio platform is, again, highly accepted by its
audience and trusted, for that matter, and we want to
communicate with those individuals through that platform if
they are not maybe paying attention to those cellular
platforms, television, et cetera. So we lose that connectivity
with that very large audience during a crisis.
Mr. Pallone. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Let me go
to Mr. Schmidt.
I was glad to see you emphasized your member companies'
commitment to ensuring drivers' access to free public alerts
and safety warnings. I did not, however, hear a commitment to
ensuring access to free information and entertainment like that
currently enjoyed from broadcast radio. And while I appreciate
those who point out that most radio stations are available to
stream via apps on our phones or through the vehicles, these
suggestions ignore a simple reality that not everyone has or
can afford unlimited cellular data plans to support that level
of sustained usage or additional subscriptions for their cars.
So we don't want this to be another issue exacerbated by the
digital divide.
So my question, Mr. Schmidt, is how will people without
unlimited data plans or paid auto connectivity subscriptions
access broadcast radio content without the standard antenna in
the vehicle?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for your question. Again, as I
reiterate, consumers have never had so many choices in where
they get their content and information, including alerts.
I can't comment on necessarily what would be subscription
or not subscription. However, I will say that we--our
commitment is that there will be free options in that vehicle.
And even within things that do have subscriptions such as
satellite, their alerts are free on their base channels, so
they are provided without fee, even if you don't choose to
subscribe. Thank you.
Mr. Pallone. I mean, the problem, though, you know, is that
we know that with AM, I mean, it is essentially free. We don't
know how people who have limited means are going to be able to
use some of these other things that might have a subscription
or, you know, limit--they might have--they may not have
unlimited cellular data plans. So I understand what you are
saying, but I also think that we have, in the case of broadcast
radio and AM stations, we know that that is not something they
have to pay for.
Let me go to Mr. Chapman.
Can you describe what would happen if your business had to
rely primarily on streaming broadcasts?
How about the hardship streaming would place on working
people, who regularly tune in to your stations while commuting
to and from their jobs?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you, Congressman, for the question. A
number of our listeners would no longer hear our stations. The
easiest way to consume our product is free, over-the-air radio.
A streaming option is something that all of our stations have,
but it is not that way for all broadcasters. There is a cost
that goes with streaming. So for smaller broadcasters, for
smaller operators, a stand-alone radio station, they may not
have that option.
So it would be a significant hit for our business, it would
lower our reach--and we are talking about safety here--we are
not as--going to be accessible. But for some broadcasters, it
would end their business model.
Mr. Pallone. All right, thank you very much. Thank you all.
And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Michigan for 5 minutes.
Mr. Walberg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Public safety, public benefits beyond safety: two pillars
of what we are hearing about the importance of AM radio. Top-
down mandates are not, I believe, the way to approach this
issue, but it is important that we properly identify what AM
radio means for our constituents and the impact that its
removal from vehicles would have.
I think the fact that AM is free is something that ought to
cause all of us to sit up and take notice.
And thank you to the panel, thank you for dealing with our
concerns, our ideas and questions today.
The free service that AM offers requires no internet
connection, reaches parts of the country and people that
streaming and other services cannot for various reasons. This
is how people in rural areas like my district get their news,
they connect with their religion, they raise money for local
causes, they take part in diverse conversations that they might
not otherwise have access to.
Mr. Chapman, over half of all people only listen to radio
in the car. I listen in the shower as well. We will leave it
there.
Additionally, AM/FM radio is still the top listened-to
media in cars over both streaming and satellite services
combined. Not all automakers have plans to eliminate AM
receivers--and thank you to Ford, I think, for listening, and I
hope they will continue to listen to that and expand the whole
network of free radio by doing so.
How could the rhetoric around removal impact investment in
and availability of AM radio programs?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, could you repeat that very last
part of your question, please?
Mr. Walberg. I was asking how the continued rhetoric around
removal of AM impacts investment and availability.
Mr. Chapman. So, you know, as far as the--Congressman,
thank you for the question--as far as the view or the rhetoric,
you know, it obviously would look, you know, for anybody
wanting to invest in our sector, question what is going on.
But I think the bigger question for us is, as an industry
right now, is how do we make sure that we can connect with
people at all times who want to receive us. And we know that we
do the best when we are received over the air through the
channels that are easiest for people to receive it.
So, you know, we have made a concerted effort to be
available everywhere for people so they can consume our
product. But the vast majority of listening that occurs to
radio stations is where it is broadcast free and over the air.
Mr. Walberg. Yes, and that is an investment option that
ought to be trumpeted.
Mr. Chapman, Michigan has a rich AM history. In fact, the
first commercial radio station in the country started here--or
started there. I guess I am always living in Michigan. Our AM
stations cover things important to Michiganders, whether it is
a fundraiser for the local Salvation Army or minute-by-minute
updates on flooding in the State, or now wildfires up in the
northern reaches of our State. There has been a trend towards
media consolidation for decades, making news less local. That
wouldn't work in Crawford County right now with the fires, if
we weren't local.
What is the AM radio's role in local news and keeping
people in rural areas informed?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, we have made significant
investments in our news operation. I will touch on those in a
second. We started our company on the premise that locally
owned and locally managed radio, where we operate, is the right
way to serve the community. That is our business model. We know
that we need to continue to invest in our news. We have upped
the staff in that. We operate in small communities, and we also
operate in rural areas.
So the news aspect and the information aspect that we
provide to the community is an important part of our service.
That is why many of the people in our organization come to work
every day. They see that as a role to serve the community.
Mr. Walberg. Thank you.
Mr. Schmidt, how much does it cost to include an AM radio
receiver in a newer electric vehicle?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes, unfortunately, I don't have cost
information that is specific to vehicle manufacturers, and it
also is very specific to the vehicle design. I can say there is
probably a range, because some of the issues with interference
may be more or less prevalent, but I don't have any specific
cost information. Sorry.
Mr. Walberg. So that leaves us at a loss as well, because
we don't understand it. So thank you.
I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida's 9th district
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Soto. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In my first couple of
years in the Congress we had Hurricane Irma, which pummeled
central Florida with heavy winds and some rains, and we saw
trees down everywhere. We got hit again with Hurricane Ian just
recently. This time it was more flooding and standing water for
many days.
And we often tell our constituents, as does the State,
that--and our local governments--that we need to be prepared,
have adequate supplies. And one of those key supplies is a
battery-powered radio. It is right there on our list, on the
Federal list, on the State list, because redundancy is
critical, especially for our Emergency Alert System. Cell phone
towers, cable, electricity can all go down. And AM is the last
line of defense when we are talking about critical information,
evacuations, power outages, downed power lines, curfews,
flooding, need of help to clear the way for our first
responders.
And AM is also a key part of our Hispanic culture. Many of
my constituents access Spanish-language programming, news,
culture, music through AM radio, and it has only heightened in
our U.S. territories, all of which are islands like Puerto
Rico, Virgin Islands, and Guam. When all else fails, AM seems
to be there to pick up the slack during a lot of these natural
disasters.
Obviously, a lot of us were concerned when major auto
manufacturers had started considering phasing out AM radio.
Some have reversed course, like Ford, and we appreciate that.
We encourage others to follow suit.
Mr. Chapman, when all else fails, how essential is AM radio
during a natural disaster?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, thank you for the question. The
central point in a large disaster depends on PEP, or primary
entry point stations. The majority of those 75 percent are AM
radio stations. And again, it was the design of the system at
that point in time, which they continue to evolve today, that
they made it essential for AM radio stations because of the
things we have already discussed to be part of that.
In more recent times, when we are dealing with local
alerts, it is only the AM stations that go into great detail.
Two quick examples.
Recently in Alexandria, which is just north of Anderson,
Indiana, twice in 1 month we had what we believed was an active
shooter in a school. It was only our AM radio station
explaining at length with reporters on site what was actually
happening to keep the public calm--because it was not what was
being put on social media. In that example, it is a prime
situation of how AM radio serves in a time of need.
Just a few weeks ago in mid-May, in Lima, Ohio, the prison
there had two extremely dangerous felons escape. In that moment
it was our stations and our AM station that were providing not
just alerts, but we are providing the background and the
information, so businesses and different organizations could
keep their population safe.
Mr. Soto. Thank you so much.
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, how critical is AM radio
stations for motor vehicles for ability of Spanish-speaking
communities in New Jersey or in my home State of Florida or
others to receive emergency alerts?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you, Congressman, for the question.
As mentioned, we like to message out where those
communities are at. And the AM radio stations being able to
share those messages with our people is of critical importance.
From a motor vehicle standpoint, it is not uncommon, as in
the case of Hurricane Sandy, for us to engage in evacuations of
areas. And having that ability to communicate with people that
are on the move when cellular networks may have been
compromised due to high winds or other destructive measures, or
in the case where there's power outages and those systems maybe
aren't able to leverage and communicate properly, the AM
platform provides us with a great deal of connectivity with
those in the community that are on the move.
And in some cases, as we have seen anecdotally, people
sheltering in their cars--maybe they had to move to higher
ground--that radio tends to be their situational awareness of
the environment around them, what the conditions are, if they
may be in an area that might not have a good view of what is
happening in the real world.
Mr. Soto. And, Lieutenant Colonel, whether it is the
Florida Turnpike or the New Jersey Turnpike, how many folks do
you have coming in from out of State who may not be aware of
some of the natural disasters that may be occurring?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. That is a good question, Chairperson.
The New Jersey Turnpike sees somewhere over a million, I
think, riders a day, you know, on a good day. So I couldn't
actually answer, you know, that aspect.
But again, having, you know, those alerts in our
signboards, telling people where to go to get critical
information, we tend to tell people to go to AM radio stations.
Mr. Soto. Thanks. My time is expired.
Mr. Latta. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair now
recognizes the gentleman from Georgia, the vice chair of the
subcommittee, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Carter. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank each of you
for being here. I appreciate it very much.
As the chairman mentioned, I am from Georgia. I have the
honor and privilege of representing the entire coast of
Georgia. Obviously, hurricanes are a concern to us. Obviously,
the emergency management system is important.
You know, one thing to note also, for those of you who may
not be familiar with Georgia, we always say there are two
Georgias. There is Atlanta and everywhere else. Well, we are
everywhere else in south Georgia, you know, so access to AM
radio is important to us, and very important.
But, you know, natural disasters like hurricanes are
traumatic. And oftentimes there is no other means of getting
alerts other than the AM radio. So I am glad to see that
companies such as Ford are--have reversed their decision to
remove AM radio in their EVs based on this information, and I
am hopeful that more will follow suit with that.
Mr. Schmidt, in my district we have Hyundai that is
building one of their EV plants. In fact, it is the largest
economic development project in the history of the State of
Georgia, a $5.5 billion investment that is going to create over
8,100 jobs, plus probably that many more in ancillary
businesses. So we are very excited about it. They have
announced that they have no plans to remove AM radios from
their vehicles as well. So we are we are encouraged to hear
that.
Can you explain to me why some of the OEMs plan to keep AM
and others don't? I mean, what is the rationale here?
Mr. Schmidt. Well, first off, I can't really comment on
individual OEM plans, but I will say our manufacturers are very
consumer-focused, and they run focus groups, et cetera, and
they look at their various product portfolios and the kind of
consumers that use their products and what they want. So I
can't say much more than that, other than the fact that it
seems like some of our members are--see value in it.
And all of our members, though, see value in providing the
full network of the IPAWS alerts, and we certainly support that
and commit to that.
Mr. Carter. I keep hearing that interference with the EV
batteries is a problem, that static and that type of thing--is
that true?
Mr. Schmidt. Well, I mean, in general, AM has issues with
static and interference. That is something that FEMA has
documented.
But I can't say much in terms of very specifics because,
again, EVs, even within EVs, are different. They have a number
of different motors, different components, different places
where they are placed. So I don't have any particular specific
information about the type of shielding or the type of
recommendations they do or remediations they do, in terms of
filtering, to be able to pull out some of that static.
Mr. Carter. You know, I have just got to tell you, I am a
little skeptical of that. I have to believe that, you know, if
they really wanted to they could fix that problem. I mean, I
don't know. Maybe I am wrong.
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, while you serve the great State
of New Jersey, as I say, can you tell me how my constituents in
Georgia, one, would fare in a category 5 hurricane without AM
radio?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
When those survivors don't have a sense of what is
happening around them, it tends to affect adversely their
decision-making processes, whether it is to shelter in place or
maybe to evacuate. And we want to make sure that those
survivors have most critical, up-to-date information possible.
New Jersey, through the Emergency Management Assistance
Compact, has assisted Georgia in providing generators in the
past to help support power during----
Mr. Carter. And we appreciate that, and it does not go
unnoted.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Yes, sir. We definitely know in a--how
important it is to make sure some of those critical pieces of
infrastructure come back online as swiftly as possible.
And, you know, part of that process is making sure that,
you know, you are effectively communicating with your public.
And AM has that ability to transcend some of those other
challenges to the infrastructure.
Mr. Carter. Mr. Chapman, real quick. You mentioned in your
testimony that AM radio helps those who have poor wireless and
broadband signals stay connected. And, you know, again, south
Georgia, we don't have the best broadband. We have got some,
and it is good, but we don't have the best. But we got a lot of
agriculture. So this would impact those in our agriculture
sector, as well.
What--while this proves that we have a lot of work to do--
and particularly on this committee--to improve broadband, rural
broadband, can you please share the volume and type of
information that these communities receive through AM radio?
Mr. Chapman. So thank you for the question, Congressman.
We have a lot of ag and farm information that we have on
our stations, and a lot of that goes on our AM radio stations.
It is very important because that is how it is received by
those communities.
And it is also important to point out that those
communities have other ways to receive things, but it is
easiest for them when they are out in a combine, something like
that, to have it on the AM radio. They have other means, but
they still choose, and ag information across radio is one of
the most important ways it is delivered today.
Mr. Carter. Good, thank you.
And thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman's time has expired, and
the Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California's 29th
District for 5 minutes.
Mr. Cardenas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and Ranking
Member, for having this important hearing.
For some people, radio--specifically, AM radio--is an
outdated medium with a shrinking consumer base. However, in
Latino communities like the one I represent in the San Fernando
Valley, radio is one of the most powerful and far-reaching
forms of media. In November of last year, Nielsen Media
Research reported that 97 percent of Latinos over the age of 18
listened to radio in some form every month.
This phenomenon is not unique only to the Latino community.
Racial and ethnic minorities in my State and across this
country turn to radio for content that is more inclusive of
their stories, their culture, and their experiences and their
languages.
Mr. Chapman, I know my colleagues have asked about this
because it is an important issue. Can you speak further to what
factors allow AM radio to target underserved minority
communities more effectively than other broadcast mediums and
whether or not radio is in one or more languages in America?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, thank you for the question. An
oftentimes overlooked aspect of diversity and voice is the
access to entry. And what I am talking about is the price of a
radio station.
So AM radio stations are typically much less expensive
today than FM radio stations. What that means is somebody
wanting to break into our industry that has a desire to speak
to a specific community, a voice, or a community of color, has
the opportunity to get into broadcast ownership where it might
be much more difficult with a large general market signal. So
that is a very important aspect of how they talk to the
community that they are targeting.
It is--while it is often overlooked, that relationship,
ultimately--as you referenced the high percentage in the Latino
community of listening to the station--it is very similar which
also occurs in the African-American community. Stations that
have a diverse listener base oftentimes have the strongest
listener base because of the relationship with that community.
Mr. Cardenas. So cultural competency and ownership does, in
fact, create an environment where this--the business has--
stands a higher likelihood of reaching more people, therefore
being more successful?
Mr. Chapman. Absolutely. I can tell you by experience, when
I was general sales manager of WTLC-AM in Indianapolis, if we
did not have a message on the air relating to a particular
situation, our audience base oftentimes would doubt that it
actually was existing or taking place. That relationship,
again, is central.
Mr. Cardenas. OK. So despite recent improvements, the
number of minority-owned commercial broadcast stations still
lags significantly behind the representational share of the
U.S. population.
Mr. Chapman, as somebody with experience in purchasing and
operating radio stations, I am wondering if you might have some
thoughts or initiatives Congress can take to encourage others
to follow your path and expand the number of minority-owned
commercial radio stations across the country.
Mr. Chapman. Thank you for the question, Congressman. Our
industry is at the best when we are reflective of the
communities where we operate. There is an unspoken charge that
the radio stations need to speak to the people that are
available in the community.
A number of years ago there was the tax certificate that
was available for diverse groups. As broadcasters, we would
welcome to see that type of thing in place once again, because
we know the more that we have a citizenry that is informed of
the issues that are taking place, it is the best way to guide
people through tough times.
Mr. Cardenas. Yes, it is very important because the--you
mentioned earlier what it takes to enter into that industry,
that business. There are some barriers.
We mourn the loss of somebody who owned radio stations,
television stations, who got his opportunity in the early 1970s
when the FCC actually said, you know, let's see if we can
entice minorities to go ahead and get involved in ownership.
And that was Walter Ulloa out of Los Angeles. He grew up in a
poor side of town but ended up doing very, very well and
brought a tremendous cultural competency to every station that
he was a part of, and therefore was incredibly successful.
So one of the things that I would like to see happen--and
we don't have enough time today--is to see some of your
recommendations forwarded to this committee, examples of the
past where we have been successful in getting more
participation, and then also maybe some innovative things we
could do going forward.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Latta. The gentleman yields back, and the Chair now
recognizes the gentleman from Florida's 2nd District for 5
minutes.
Mr. Dunn. Thank you very much, Chairman Latta. As we have
all heard today, AM radio continues to be important. It offers
a broad range of programming and essential emergency
announcements are transmitted classically on the AM bands.
Given the long wavelength of AM radio, we can hear from
stations hundreds of miles away, which makes this an ideal form
of communications in emergencies.
I am aware that technology innovations bring changes to the
status quo, and we now have FM and satellite radio and
internet, et cetera. But when the prominent lines of
communications fail, when individuals can't access the
internet, or when there is a natural disaster, AM radio is the
last resort. I don't--for the life of me, I am not sure why we
are discussing getting rid of that at this particular juncture.
I have a few questions for you.
Colonel DeMaise, thank you for your time with the panel
today. With your background as a deputy director of emergency
management and many previous roles in this field, I think you
know the importance of effective communications during
emergencies. And Mr. Chapman, your experience in broadcasting
is certainly germane as well.
In the Florida Panhandle we suffered a category 5 hurricane
that seriously impacted our lives and our communications. We
literally lost all cell phones, landlines, internet, and even
our police radio repeaters for nearly 2 weeks. What we didn't
lose was AM radio. So with the potential removal of AM radios
for most of the major automobile manufacturers, do you think
FEMA will be able to communicate effectively with individuals
during disasters?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
As you mentioned, the redundancy that we have built within the
Integrated Public Alert and Warning System relies upon the AM
radio as its most reliable form of communication during those
critical moments when those high winds and other factors can
destroy the actual cellular infrastructure or other means of
communication with which we have to communicate with the public
during a crisis.
So I think FEMA recognizes----
Mr. Dunn. They recognize the importance----
Lt. Col. DeMaise. [continuing]. Absolutely have, that it is
incredibly important to----
Mr. Dunn. Mr. Chapman, same question.
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, thank you. I believe that there's
all kinds of redundancies that are built into the EAS system.
That is why it works well.
But for the reasons that we have pointed out, AM sits at
the very beginning of the chain. The AM stations are far
superior to the other mechanisms and the Emergency Alert System
to start it. It is why we chose for 75 percent of the primary
entry-point stations to be AM radio stations.
Mr. Dunn. That sounds like a strong, strong affirmation.
And Mr. Schmidt, do you have a feeling how much it costs to
put an AM radio in a car?
Mr. Schmidt. No, I don't have an actual cost for an AM
radio. Again, it probably varies between individual
manufacturers, and those are proprietary and closely held.
But again, we are committed and--to providing the alerts
across the full spectrum of the IPAWS system. And we also
have--provide just a vast offer of choices for our
manufacturers.
And oh, by the way, there's still 99 percent of vehicles on
the road today that have AM radios. So we will have AM radio
for quite a while as we look at the future and see what makes
sense in terms of the IPAWS system and FEMA's approach. Thank
you.
Mr. Dunn. So I guess I will close on this note. There are
82 million Americans listening to AM radio, and there are 2
million Americans driving electric vehicles. I think it is a
pretty obvious thing to leave the AM radios alone.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I will yield back. Thank you.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Michigan for 5
minutes.
Mrs. Dingell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Well, AM radio may seem arcane to some. We have already
seen in this hearing it currently serves as the backbone of our
Nation's Emergency Alert System, providing an important
backstop in times of need, and has proven its continued
reliability as other networks fail, which is why the
announcement by some automakers to remove AM radio from cars
has raised significant concerns for Americans.
There are valid questions regarding the overall reach of
various forms of emergency communications: the depth of
information provided by those alerts, free access to alerts,
and the resiliency of the infrastructure required to provide
these alerts.
It is crucial we ensure that all Americans can freely
access life-saving information in times of need through
interrelated, innovative, and overlapping forms of emergency
communication systems. But at the same time, we can't ignore or
stymie technological innovation.
Let me start with you, Mr. Schmidt. In your testimony you
mentioned that the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System
Program Management Office emphasized in its strategic plan for
fiscal year 22-26 difficulties in moving away from radio and
broadcast as the primary channels for news and information. In
your estimation, if we had an emergency right now during this
very hearing, would you say that the current IPAWS system is
fully equipped to serve and reach every American in times of
emergency without assistance from AM radio? Yes or no.
Mr. Schmidt. I can't opine on----
Mrs. Dingell. Yes or no, please.
Mr. Schmidt. Madam Chairman--I mean, sorry, Congresswoman
Dingell, no. I do not have the ability to answer that question
because I am not FEMA. I am not the Government. I am not the
one that developed this--the program. We are the ones that work
with that program to try to support it the best we can.
Mrs. Dingell. Well, I have talked to them. And the fact of
the matter is, based on my conversations, that we are not
currently adequately prepared to reach all Americans in the
event of a disaster without the assistance of AM radio services
as a backdrop.
I am grateful that all the members of the Alliance for
Automotive Innovation have committed to providing multiple
channels of free emergency alert access to consumers. But we
need to get far more specific about how they receive these
alerts.
Mr. Schmidt, can you share with us through what medium
consumers can expect to receive free emergency alerts in
automobiles moving forward? Is it digital, analog, FM, AM,
satellite or another technology?
And are the companies approaching the issue differently?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for the question. Yes, with respect
to free, that varies between mediums, and even within mediums,
so I can't comment----
Mrs. Dingell. So that is a very basic question here.
Mr. Schmidt. However, what I will say is there are
certainly, for example, satellite, where satellite has their
free barker channel, which is always there and runs--and is
without subscription. And there are a lot of the analogs and
other mechanisms which are free as well.
Mrs. Dingell. So, Mr. Chairman, I am going to suggest--for
instance, by the way, Tesla does not offer AM now in its
vehicles. I believe that this committee should ask every
manufacturer whether they are going to--how long, what the
commitment is, how much it is going to cost, is it going to be
streamed, and when they say it is going to be free, what is the
definition of free?
Now, Mr. Schmidt, how have your member companies also
ensured that this medium remains resilient in times of crisis
or when wireless network outages occur?
Mr. Schmidt. Well, again, like I said, IPAWS is a network
of stuff, so depending on the specific event, certain mediums
are maybe more appropriate than others, and that is why there
is----
Mrs. Dingell. But not everybody may have access, because
everybody is not telling us exactly how they are going to make
sure they have access to those free.
Mr. Schmidt, when will these emergency alert services come
standard in all new vehicles?
Is this commitment the same across all member companies, or
will there be differences in terms of what emergency
communication services they will receive in their new vehicles?
Mr. Schmidt. Well, I can't comment on individual
manufacturers on what exactly is in their program, but there is
a commitment that there will be at least some free emergency
alert received through those vehicles.
Mrs. Dingell. But we don't know whether it is going to be
ongoing.
I am going to clearly say consumers should not bear the
cost of receiving life-saving emergency information, period. I
think it is important that every member company you represent
be unambiguously clear about how consumers will receive these
alerts free of charge and standard in new vehicles.
I have other questions I would like to submit for the
record, Mr. Chairman.
And I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Utah for 5 minutes.
Mr. Curtis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our
witnesses.
Listen, I come to this meeting a huge fan of AM radio. I
remember in the 1980s--I will date myself--I used to travel in
Colorado, and I could tune in to the Salt Lake City AM radio
station and listen to local football games and local news. And,
of course, I, like many of my colleagues here, want to make
sure that AM radio is vibrant and is viable for many years into
the future.
But if I am honest, I am a little conflicted with the
concept of the Federal Government mandating how that is done.
And so I come to this hearing with an open mind, not with a
predetermined judgment, but just simply an open mind.
Some of those memories also include eight-track tapes,
cigarette lighters, manual windows, and I find myself asking,
gosh, you know, if the eight-track tape industry had lobbied
for a mandate to keep that eight-track tapes, would we still be
listening to eight-track tapes? And I don't think so.
So, Mr. Chapman, let's agree that the vibrancy of AM radio
is important for entertainment, for education, and, clearly, as
we have heard today, for emergency situations.
But as I travel my district--and I would challenge anybody
to have a more rural district than I have in Utah; as a matter
of fact, half of my district is actually frontier--I have more
success streaming than I do actually getting AM radio signals.
And I am just wondering, if we set aside this concept about
cars for just a minute, isn't the vibrancy of AM radio really
contingent on a transition to streaming? And should we be
having more conversations, right, about how to do that?
Look, when I am here in Washington, DC, I like to listen to
that same local AM station. When I jog on the Mall, I can
listen to news back home, and I don't really care about even an
emergency warning here in DC. I would care about one back more
in my district. So could you just explore with me, like, the
future of AM radio?
And if we all agree we want to keep it vibrant, shouldn't
we be spending more time talking about transitioning to kind of
a new world?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, I appreciate the question. I
think it is a fair question.
One of the things--we all come with preconceived notions,
and one of those is when you reference eight-track tapes from
many years ago, I am part of the generation that grew up with
that. And when I listen to AM radio today, I hear static and it
doesn't sound with the same fidelity that FM radio sounds. But
for the reasons I pointed out earlier, there are clear superior
advantages for AM radio in times of emergency.
And so I also recognize that we have discussed that at
length this morning, but I think that safety point is so----
Mr. Curtis. So I guess my point is there is far higher
likelihood that I will hear that outside of my car than inside
my car. I don't have a car here in DC. Some of my staff doesn't
have a car. And yet, if we explore ways for people to access AM
radio, aren't we actually ensuring far more likelihood that
they would get those alerts if we are making sure that
everybody can access AM radio really--almost no matter where
they are, with today's technology?
By the way, during the hearing my staff prompted me and I
just looked on Amazon. You can buy an AM radio for about $5.
So--those of you who want to know what it costs to add it to a
car, right?
So this is not a cost issue, right? It maybe is a
technology issue, and where we are going in the future issue.
Yes, I will give you a chance to respond. Then I want to
ask a couple more questions.
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, one last point. It was back in
January we were moving our daughter from Denver up to Seattle.
And so we drove through large sections of Utah, you know, in
our 2013 Toyota Avalon. It is a hybrid. And I can listen to AM
radio in that car through that stretch. And there were times
where there was not an FM station and there were times when
there weren't AM stations. And they both complement each other
in some of those more rural areas.
Mr. Curtis. And just for--simply for time, I am going to
move on. I would tell you, though, I can better access that AM
streaming in my car in rural Utah than I can frequently with
stations.
Colonel, that cigarette lighter in my parents' car was
often used to start campfires, and could be considered
essential for emergencies. Maybe only in rural Utah, right?
So in your view, like, are we looking at this through the
wrong paradigm? Should we be looking at new technology?
And here again, not to diminish AM. I want AM to be part of
whatever our solution is, but what role is--are we--should we
be looking to new technology and its advancements and not get
stuck in a paradigm that has to be a traditional AM radio as we
think about it?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Congressman, great question. You know, I
think we are always----
Mr. Curtis. I got to get a super-quick answer, because we
are almost out of time.
Lt. Col. DeMaise [continuing]. Exploring new technologies,
I agree with you 100 percent. But right now, as currently
constituted in an emergency situation, the AM platform is
critical to communicate----
Mr. Curtis. OK. And I don't dispute that. It is not the AM
platform, it is that thing that--is there a paradigm that has
to be--look and feel and act like an old AM radio that I am
questioning.
I am sorry. I am out of time, Mr. Chairman. I yield.
Mr. Latta. The gentleman yields back, and the Chair now
recognizes the gentlelady from New Hampshire for 5 minutes.
Ms. Kuster. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank
you for being with us.
I think it is clear from the discussion today that AM radio
remains a staple communication channel across the country,
including my rural district. From music and talk shows to
traffic updates and the news, AM radio is a trusted platform to
connect people with what they want to listen to.
Many AM broadcast radio stations operate locally and help
to keep their listeners informed about what is happening in our
community. Most critically, Americans know and trust they can
tune into their local AM station to receive alerts and stay
safe during emergencies, including snowstorms and other
emergencies in my State.
For anyone who has ever found themselves caught driving in
a sudden storm, AM radio is where you turn to first. AM radio
is especially important in rural communities where cell
coverage can be spotty and broadband services may be limited,
and that is classic for my district. For rural Americans, AM
radio is a reliable and accessible way to stay connected when
it matters most.
And while Congress continues to work to connect rural
communities and bridge the digital divide, AM radio remains an
essential communications channel. That is why I joined our
chairman, Mr. Latta, and Representative Pence in sending a
letter seeking information from the major automakers on their
plans to phase AM radios out of their vehicles. I remain
concerned that removing the radios from new vehicles will put
rural Americans at risk of not receiving critical emergency
alerts and safety information.
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, can you elaborate on other
available emergency communication tools and how these tools
operate in rural areas? What are the alternatives?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. So in our rural areas, when we push a
message through the Integrated Public Alert and Warning System,
it hits several different pieces of the architecture. One is
communicating through those AM and FM platforms, certainly
through the television, communicating those critical messages,
but also it ties into WEA, the Wireless Emergency Alert system,
which, again, depending upon the reach of those cellular
towers, will hopefully be able to connect with those rural
areas.
But as we have seen, you know, even in the areas very
adjacent to my area in southern New Jersey, which are very
rural, some of that cellular reach is very limited. In some
cases, that messaging doesn't necessarily reach.
Ms. Kuster. Get through. Thank you. AM radio is not the
only emergency management tool available, but it is clearly our
most reliable tool to reach the widest audience at this time.
While I recognize the importance of AM radio, I also support
the innovation and development of new technologies, and I think
this is where Mr. Curtis was going.
Electric vehicles are the future of our Nation's
transportation system, and we must be careful not to stifle
widespread deployment. Mr. Schmidt, how will a potential
mandate to require AM radios in all vehicles impact the
function and adoption of electric vehicles?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for the question.
Yes, as I mentioned earlier, regulation is a blunt
instrument, and it is--it goes to perpetuity. So even if you
have vehicles that now have this technology, you are mandating
them forever, basically. And you are looking at a system that
FEMA has concerns about its declining listenership, and we are
looking at more and better ways of trying to deliver alerts. So
I am--I think we are generally not against--or not in favor of
a mandate in this area.
And again, we have--our commitment is that we are going to
be providing as much through the IPAWS network as possible.
Consumers have a wide range of options, and currently there are
about 99 percent of vehicles on the road, which--that will not
change dramatically in the next future. So we will have time to
look at how we maybe evolve this system in a more positive way.
Thank you.
Ms. Kuster. And one for--more for you, Mr. Schmidt. EV
adoption in rural communities is already falling behind for a
number of reasons. Will the removal of AM radios be yet another
barrier to adoption of EVs in rural communities?
Mr. Schmidt. As I mentioned, I think we have pretty--a
fairly reasonable array of technologies that our EV customers
can use to reach and get to these alerts and et cetera, so I
don't see it as being an impediment for EV penetration.
Ms. Kuster. Thank you. Congress has a delicate
responsibility of protecting public safety without hampering
innovation, and I look forward to our continuing discussion in
this committee.
And with that, I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you.
Ms. Kuster. Fifteen seconds to spare.
Mr. Latta. Well, actually, it was 16 over.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Latta. But we will ignore that. The gentlelady's time
has expired, and the Chair now recognizes the gentleman from
Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
Mr. Joyce. Thank you, Chairman Latta and Ranking Member
Matsui for putting together today's hearing on AM radio, and
thank you to the witnesses for providing such valuable insight.
My district is in the heart of rural Pennsylvania. Many of
my constituents, farmers and rural residents alike, rely every
day on AM radio to receive their local news, from weather to
sports.
We hear all too often that information is power. But in my
district in Pennsylvania, information is protection. With that
knowledge, we know that FEMA relies on AM radio to provide
alerts through the National Emergency Alert System to our
communities. Thus, the protection. With the increasing
prevalence of electric vehicles, some have raised concerns that
the elimination of AM radio will restrict critical access to
emergency alerts for those without cell phones. Some believe FM
could soon follow, despite millions of Americans still relying
on radio for their news and various talk shows and, ultimately,
for their protection.
Mr. Chapman, given that AM radio is often used in times of
severe weather and natural disasters such as tornadoes and
hurricanes, what kind of safeguards do these stations have in
place to ensure that these alerts are able to reach as many
people as possible?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you for the opportunity to comment on
that, Congressman. I can tell you that every radio station that
is part of the network--and it is virtually every station
across the country--has certain protocols and systems that they
have to adhere to. There is regular testing that takes place.
And so, unlike the other systems that are in place, we
continually go through and make sure that free over-the-air
radio is accessible and that there's not holes or gaps in our
system.
Mr. Joyce. So having that extra layer of protection, having
that testing in place to make sure that the holes and gaps are
not present, particularly in areas like rural parts of America,
do you feel that deleting AM radio will provide a national
safety risk?
Mr. Chapman. So--and I think that is the biggest question,
obviously, that we are talking about right here, because the
EAS system has redundancies. You know, we have talked about
that this morning. But there are parts and roles that AM radio
plays in it that cannot be substituted by other forms.
You know, it was chosen--and we have talked about it a
couple of times--as the primary entry point for the national
alerts that go out. And the reason for that is those radio
stations cover 90 percent of the United States. There are 60 of
the 70-some radio stations that are PEP stations that cover the
entire network. And that is the most reliable method that we
have in any time of crisis.
Mr. Joyce. And that reliability is important.
Colonel DeMaise, how many cell phones are not capable of
the wireless emergency alerts?
And could those that are noncapable cell phones be at risk,
without AM radio, to missing emergency, Amber, and presidential
alerts, especially in rural communities?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
I don't have the data on what that would turn out to be, but I
can only state that having the AM radio available to
communicate those messages out as a backup, whether or not that
cellular device is functioning or not, is of critical
importance.
Mr. Joyce. And as a followup, are individuals currently
able to opt out of these imminent threat and Amber alerts
through the WARN Act, defeating the function of this system?
And without those mobile alerts, what are the remaining
ways to be notified of severe weather?
Or are these communication systems in the near future going
to be implemented to reach rural constituents like mine during
an emergency?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Again, I am not aware of the process of
opting out of certain messaging, as per the process, but I can
state that we will still leverage other platforms through the
Integrated Public Alert and Warning Systems, such as
television. We have the ability to leverage other sources of
communications, such as reverse 911, where we can hit hard-line
phones, or the--through the Resident Connect program.
But there are multiple means to build that redundancy in
communicating with the public. But again, as mentioned
throughout the hearing this morning, AM radio is the most
consistent, dependable, and reliable, particularly for those
areas that are more rural.
Mr. Joyce. And I think it is worth, as my time diminishes
here, repeating that AM radio is the most consistent, reliable
form of communication that we have right now.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My time has expired. I yield.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Illinois for 5
minutes.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to thank you
and Ranking Member Matsui for holding this important hearing
this morning.
I also want to thank our witnesses for your testimony to
help us better understand why keeping AM radio receivers in new
vehicles has become an emerging issue and why these antennas
are something so many EV manufacturers have removed from their
vehicles.
I am well aware that AM radio receivers in cars play an
important role for various subsets of our community. One of my
channels in Chicago that I listen to all the time, WVON, they
are very important, especially in the Black community, in
hearing different opinions, getting the word out what is going
on locally, but also nationally also. However, I have also
heard from those who argue that AM radio receivers in cars are
less of a necessity, as you have been hearing somewhat here
today.
I am encouraged by today's hearing because we have Members
of Congress that--we can now be informed by industry leaders as
to why and--how this--important this technology is and how
useful it is to our constituents.
So my district is urban, suburban, and rural. So I want to
talk a little bit about--I went from 1,200 farms in the remap
to 2,000, so I want to hear, Mr. Chapman, how do local farmers
in the field and on rural roadways utilize AM radio, and what
would be or what is the alternative for my rural constituents
if their AM radio was not accessible to them in their cars?
Mr. Chapman. Congresswoman Kelly, thank you for the
question.
In rural America, AM oftentimes is the best vehicle that we
have to get out talk programming, extended long-form, and it is
oftentimes not used for songs and things like that. AM radio
stations are the primary point that ag news reaches the
community that it is intended. And so AM is central to
agriculture, just like it is with communities in urban areas.
Ms. Kelly. So--and according to what my colleague Mr.
Curtis was trying to say, and somewhat my colleague Ms. Kuster,
as far as technology and moving forward, is there any moving
forward, really, for local farmers and rural constituents if we
didn't have AM radio?
Mr. Chapman. So one of the things that has come up this
morning is there are multiple ways for people in this day and
age to find different things. A central point to why this all
is really important is AM is the easiest way for people to do
it. There are things that people in rural areas can subscribe
to, but ag news coming over a satellite to a farm may not be
the best use because of the subscription fees that are involved
delivering satellite news to that individual farm. Satellite
radio is another example.
All of these things have subscriptions. This is the one
mechanism that we have that is free to deliver these types of
things.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you.
And Colonel, how does AM radio help level the playing field
for non-English speakers, especially in emergency situations?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question,
Congresswoman.
As mentioned throughout the hearings today, the relatively
low barrier to entry to broadcast to different diverse
communities through this particular platform make it ideal for
us to communicate with underserved and socially vulnerable
communities that may not have access to some of those resources
in their native languages. The ability of those broadcasters to
communicate directly with the groups that they message out to,
our information is of critical importance to making sure the
public is fully aware of what the situation is as it relates to
disasters.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you, and I am going to yield back 57
seconds.
Thank you to the witnesses.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentlelady yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia's 12th district
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Allen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to take the
opportunity to address the importance of AM radio and, as has
already been mentioned, in our rural communities.
I represent a large part of Georgia's rural community in
the southeast, and I want to emphasize that AM radio plays an
important part in our community, particularly in areas where
consistent wireless service is a challenge. And that is due to
factors of pine trees and other things. AM radio remains a
lifeline for my constituents, providing reliable access to
vital information, emergency alerts, and public announcements.
It is crucial to understand that in rural areas like mine AM
radio is a critical source of news, information, and
entertainment for residents who may have limited access to
other communication technologies.
The reach and reliability of AM radio signals make it the
most dependable means of communication in rural communities, as
they can penetrate obstacles such as dense vegetation. I have
witnessed firsthand how AM radio stations in my district have
played a vital role in disseminating information during
emergencies and severe weather events, ensuring that our
constituents stay informed and safe.
I urge the continued collaboration between automakers,
radio broadcasters, and technology experts to find innovative
solutions that preserve the accessibility and reach of AM radio
while addressing the unique challenges posed by EVs.
Colonel DeMaise, IHS Markit forecasts that by 2035 45
percent of all new car sales will be electric vehicles. From an
emergency alerting perspective, if all of these cars or a large
subset of them do not have AM radio, what is your confidence
level that your State will be able to send notifications that
your citizens will receive?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the question, Congressman.
Our experience has been during those critical moments in
disasters, the cellular networks can tend to be overwhelmed,
either through compromise of the infrastructure due to damaging
winds, or if it is overload from multiple residents trying to
communicate with loved ones. The network can tend to collapse
and not be available to the customer base. However, as many
people in our population that exist are able to access a radio
no matter the condition.
Mr. Allen. Mr. Chapman, you mentioned how many PEP stations
or AM stations in your testimony. Can you elaborate on how
important AM is to EAS, and why other forms of communication
don't have the scale and reach that AM does?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you, Congressman.
AM radio stations are the primary entry point. The national
alert would begin on the AM radio stations, at least 75 percent
of them. There are some 80 radio stations that are PEP
stations. And so that is the beginning point. Those stations
were chosen for the characteristics we have talked about
already, and it is central to making sure that, when there is
an important message, it gets out in a way that can be received
by the other stations that are part of the EAS network. We
begin with our most important that can reach with the most
number of people, and then we go to the next level, which is an
LP1, and then we go to the next level, which is an LP2. It
begins with the PEP stations.
Mr. Allen. Thank you.
Mr. Schmidt, have there been studies on how AM radio has
interfered with or--interfered with the spectrum utilized in
autonomous vehicles?
Mr. Schmidt. I am not aware of it.
Mr. Allen. Mr. Chapman, from my understanding, the issue
with electric vehicles is that the drive train generates
electromagnetic frequencies on the same wavelength as analog AM
radio signals, which heavily interferes with the signal
quality. Is that correct?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, Toyota Motor Company has got
roughly 5.1 million electrified vehicles on the road. That is
more than all the other combined automakers in the United
States. Some of those are hybrids, some of them are electric
vehicles. And they have determined that they have got a way to
isolate the noise. It is not an issue.
You know, I can tell you that the early electric vehicles
had AM radios in them, and most of the vehicles that were
manufactured before 2015 all had AM radios in it. So there has
been some change for some reason. Electromagnetic interference
can be protected in these cars.
Mr. Allen. OK. And as far as the AM radio signals, do they
experience the same kind of interference as analog signals?
Mr. Chapman. Analog and digital stations interfere--
interference, but it presents itself in different ways.
Mr. Allen. OK. What would be the cost of upgrading a tower
from analog to digital?
Mr. Chapman. This is a cost that varies by radio station,
but it would be a significant cost. So it would be difficult,
unless I was commenting on a particular tower, a particular
transmission facility.
Mr. Allen. OK. Thank you so much.
And Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Texas for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Fletcher. Thank you so much, Chairman Latta and
Ranking Member Matsui, for convening today's hearing, and thank
you to all of our witnesses for the time that you have taken
this morning to testify.
It is not surprising to me, as I go toward the end of the
questioning, that a lot of the things that I had prepared to
talk to you about this morning have already been covered. But I
do want to talk about just a couple of those things and follow
up on some of the good questions that have been asked and some
of the questions--some of the answers that you have given.
Of course, I represent the Houston, Texas, area. And so we
are very familiar with the importance of AM radio for emergency
alerts as well as for all the other purposes we have been
talking about here this morning. And I know my constituents
care deeply about this issue in the last just couple of months,
as this issue has been more and more in the news and in our
conversations. I have heard from hundreds of constituents in a
very organic way about their concerns about making sure that
they can continue to have access to AM radio.
And so there are certain things we have touched on and I
just want to emphasize are really important to us. We have
talked a little bit about the importance of being able to
communicate in different languages. In my own district, in our
area, more than 140 languages are spoken. The idea that you can
get to various communities through AM radio has absolutely
borne out in our district, and really important for
communicating within the district.
And of course, we are no stranger to weather disasters and
other emergencies--unfortunately, summer and winter--and this
has been a critical lifeline for us. And so these really are
the priorities of our community, and you all have talked a lot
about that this morning, so I appreciate your insights. It has
been incredibly helpful.
What I am not totally sure--Representative Allen was just
asking a couple of questions about this, and I think, Mr.
Chapman, you were just saying--something has changed recently,
and I am not sure we have gotten the answer today about why
exactly this move is being made, why the manufacturers
specifically and the cars are thinking about removing it. There
are some suggestions about whether there is interference with
the AM signal and the cars. But as you said, this is--we have
had electric cars for going on two decades now, and this is a
more recent issue. So I think that is something that I would
really like to understand better, kind of why it is happening,
and I am not sure we have got the answer to that question this
morning.
And then the other thing that Mr. Curtis touched on that I
think is also important was this question about the transition
and the difference between digital and analog. I too love
listening to my digital radio here in DC, and I tune it to my
Houston Public Media station and listen to what is going on at
home every single morning.
But those are the questions, and I think it goes together,
kind of this--what is the change? Does it have to do with
digital versus analog?
And so I am going to look to you, Mr. Schmidt, if you could
just talk a little bit and try to give us a concise answer on
why this is happening now, and then maybe turn to you, Mr.
Chapman, for a final comment, if we have time.
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for the question.
With respect to changes over time, I have to admit my
expertise is in the safety end, and not in the actual EV
architecture. So I am going to have to come back with you with
some information.
Mrs. Fletcher. I appreciate that.
Mr. Schmidt. I think it is a great question and begs the
information, but we will provide that for you.
Mrs. Fletcher. OK, thank you, yes. I would appreciate that,
if you could supplement. I know we will have a couple of weeks
at the end of the hearing to supplement the record, and I think
it is really important for us to understand that.
And so I guess--can I ask sort of two related questions,
Mr. Chapman, one based on your experience, and two, what we
have heard is that there is a move toward digital that could be
part of it, but also can you speak to whether not just the
expense but the differences you might see in terms of reach,
resiliency, and kind of the depth and strength of the analog
and digital signals?
Like I said, I love my digital radio, but can you just talk
to that, and what those concerns and issues might be, as well,
in your answer?
Mr. Chapman. Thank you, Congresswoman.
I listened to you talk about Houston and Harvey. Our son
was in Houston at that time, when 60-some inches of rain in a
little more than a day were dumped on the community. And I will
touch on the digital thing in a moment, but what was important
is he was prepared because he knew the power was going to go
out. He parked his car in a parking garage up on the second
level, and so he was going to be in a place at least where he
could get information. And the power did go out, and sometimes
it was out and on for extended periods. And so that is a way I
think a lot of people who are in hurricane areas prepare when
something like that comes up.
Just to touch on digital very quickly, it is an option down
the road. But right now broadcasting in all digital, there is a
station that is doing it here in Frederick, Maryland. Most
people can't receive it. It is only a small percentage of the
receivers. It is not an option that is available to us yet. It
should be explored, but EAS depends on analog stations.
Mrs. Fletcher. Well, thank you for that. I appreciate that.
And I will just add as I yield back that I too have a weather
radio. It is a great thing to have if you are in an area like
ours, it is entirely weather. But I think it is critically
important that we preserve this ability to communicate with
everyone in times of disaster, and that is certainly true of
our experience in Houston.
So again, Mr. Chairman, I thank you so much for holding
this very important hearing, and I yield back.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired and
yields back. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Ohio's
12th District for 5 minutes.
Mr. Balderson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you all for being here today. There is no question
about the importance of AM radio to my constituents in central
and southeastern Ohio. Farmers rely on AM radio for their
weather and crop reports. And as you mentioned in your
testimony, Mr. Chapman, individuals and families living in
broadband deserts rely on AM to stay connected to their
communities.
Mr. Chapman, in your testimony you often refer to the AM
signal as resilient. Can you please briefly explain the
difference between AM and FM signals and why you believe the AM
signal is more resilient than the FM?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, thank you for the question.
Touching on the difference in properties, say, for example,
between AM and FM, the FM signal is much shorter. The AM signal
is a much longer wavelength, and what that means is a longer
wavelength travels a much larger distance. So that is one of
the properties. It also will go through solid objects, unlike
what a shorter FM signal will.
So there's ways that it can certainly adapt. And in the
evening, for example, you know, those that might listen to an
AM radio station hear one from a great distance away. So
there's different things that are signal properties that are
really important to the AM band that the FM band doesn't
possess.
Mr. Balderson. OK, thank you. As my colleague Mrs. Fletcher
said, a lot of the questions have been asked, but in a little
different dynamic here we have been hearing a lot about the
analog versus the digital AM radio signals.
In 2020 the FCC issued a report and order authorizing AM
radio stations to voluntarily transition to an all-digital
signal. Back to you again, Mr. Chapman, I apologize. Do any of
your AM radio stations broadcast on a digital signal, and can
you explain the benefits and drawbacks of digital AM radio
signal versus a traditional analog signal?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman Balderson, I would welcome the
opportunity, if it was a good opportunity, for us to transition
to digital AM. Unfortunately, most of our listeners can't
receive digital signals on the AM band. There's differences in
the receivers and such.
And so, for the same reason it is important to keep AM
radio in cars in its current format. It is important for us to
give access to all Americans for AM in its current form, and it
would require a change or receiver standards, which is a
different question entirely.
And so the reason we don't make that transition is people
wouldn't hear us any longer.
Mr. Balderson. OK. Do you know if any of the AM stations
operating as FEMA primary entry points currently broadcast
through a digital signal?
Mr. Chapman. No, they do not.
Mr. Balderson. All right, thank you. You are all done from
my questioning.
Mr. Schmidt, thank you for being here. In the case of
electric vehicles, the batteries interfere with the AM signal,
requiring filters or shielding to be installed to prevent
interference. Following up on my question to Mr. Chapman, is
this interference only an issue with the traditional analog
signal, or would we see the same interference occur with the
digital receiver installed with electric vehicles?
Mr. Schmidt. Unfortunately, I am, again, a safety engineer,
and so I don't have the expertise on that at this moment, but I
can certainly bring that back to you.
Mr. Balderson. OK.
Did you want to raise your hand, Mr. Chapman?
Mr. Chapman. Electromagnetic interference has different
properties for each band, but if it affects AM, chances are it
would affect FM also, whether it was in the digital or the
analog structure. And so the shielding that takes place in cars
needs to protect AM and FM, and that is generally how they are
designed.
Mr. Balderson. OK, thank you very much for all of you being
here today.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back my remaining time.
Mr. Latta. Thank you. The gentleman yields back, and the
Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from New York for 5
minutes.
Ms. Clarke. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me thank our
ranking member, as well. Let me thank our panelists for joining
us today to discuss this important issue.
With the rapid pace of technological advances in
communication technology over the past two decades, it would be
easy to overlook the important role that AM radio has
historically played in keeping us all informed, safe, and
connected. In addition to often being a primary source of news
for immigrant communities, AM radio signals travel farther and
can reach far more people than FM radio. What AM radio may lack
in sound quality it more than makes up for in reach and
resiliency, making it an essential component of our National
Public Warning System. The redundancies that AM emergency
broadcasts provide ensures that Americans have a reliable
channel to receive critical information in time of crisis and
natural disasters.
Additionally, AM radio stations play a crucial role in
increasing the diversity of media ownership, as they are more
likely to be owned by women and minority ownership groups than
FM stations and other media. The premature demise of AM radio
would represent a significant blow to efforts to promote
diversity and inclusion in media ownership and limit the
diversity of programming available to consumers.
With that being said, I am also extremely proud of the
American automakers that have stepped up to help usher in a
clean energy future by shifting more towards electric vehicles.
The transportation sector has long been ripe for
decarbonization, and I commend the automotive industry for
moving quickly to make a zero-emission transportation future a
concrete reality instead of simply a possibility.
And as we move towards the future, it is essential that
industry leaders and policymakers alike keep public safety
concerns at top of mind. We can and must safeguard our clean
energy future without sacrificing essential communication
channels in the present.
Mr. Schmidt, first let me thank you for your organization's
plainly stated commitment to ensuring that drivers continue to
have access to public alerts and safety warnings. As you stated
in your testimony, there are any number of reasons why
automakers make certain choices on vehicle design and features
offered. I would like to get a better understanding of the
technological issues at play with respect to AM in EVs.
And while explaining decisions to remove AM radio from EVs,
some manufacturers have cited electromagnetic interference
generated from electric batteries or motors as among the
factors impacting that decision. Nevertheless, in a reversal of
its decision to remove AM radio from 2024 models, Ford
indicated that it plans to issue a software update to vehicles
already on the road without AM radio.
Mr. Schmidt, my question is when it comes to addressing
electromagnetic interference, are the solutions rooted in
hardware, software, or a combination of both?
Mr. Schmidt. Well, as I mentioned, from the Ford
perspective, they had the hardware in the vehicle. They were
planning to remove AM radio, so it was easy to remove it by
software. And then, when they reversed their decision, they
just used software to bring it back.
So I would say that I can't say anything for any other
manufacturers other than Ford, because they authorized me to--
and they had communications with this committee, as well.
Ms. Clarke. Got you. So it remains to be seen.
Mr. Schmidt. Yes.
Ms. Clarke. Mr. Chapman, in your testimony you spoke to the
importance of AM radio's search and focus on local
communities--excuse me, reach and focus. Can you expound
briefly on why AM radio is so important for rural, minority,
and historically underserved communities and how these
communities could be impacted by the demise of AM radio?
Mr. Schmidt. Congresswoman Clarke, one of the things that
we touched on earlier but is really important is the
opportunity to get into ownership. We need our ownership to be
reflective of the communities where we operate. The cost of
entry for an AM station is much less than an FM station.
And so oftentimes the stations that program to specific
groups that may not be the general market have chosen to go in
because it is a business model that is sustainable for them
with that cost of entry.
Ms. Clarke. Very well.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. Obernolte [presiding]. The gentlewoman yields back. We
will go next to my colleague from Texas.
Congressman Pfluger, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Pfluger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the
witnesses for being here.
I want to start, Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, just, you
know, asking a quick question about the security implications.
I am a military guy myself. You always need backup
communications. You know, and I see kind of that baseline
backup as something that our emergency systems completely
depend on. Just give me a, you know, a brief statement on what
AM radio does as a kind of a baseline backup emergency
broadcast system and what it does for our security in this
country.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you, Congressman. I am sure, as a
military guy, you recall the old phrase ``One is none, two is
one, and three is almost what you need.'`
In the case of emergency management, the ability to have
redundancy, the variety of platforms--knowing, again, as I
mentioned earlier, that Murphy's Law at some point will
intervene and one if not multiple platforms will fail at the
most critical moment is something that we build into our
emergency management processes. We want to make sure that all
those resources are available to communicate with the public
during a crisis.
The AM radio platform, in and of itself, has the greatest
reach of all of our forms of communication with the public and
has been proven to be the most consistently reliable.
Mr. Pfluger. Well, very good. You know, I think, too, of
our local broadcaster in Midland, Texas, Craig Anderson, and,
you know, the ability to get information, much-needed
information, out to the population is so important. And it is
one of the keys, you know, for broadcasting that we need.
Mr. Chapman, from a broadcasting perspective, can you talk
to me about the differences between, you know, the digital and
analog broadcast, and, you know, is it changing?
And again, like my colleagues Mr. Curtis and others have
said, I want to keep an open mind here, but I know for sure
that we need AM radio in this country. And can you talk to me
about digital and analog differences?
Mr. Chapman. Sure. Thank you, Congressman, for the
question. I will talk real quickly in terms of the differences
with AM, in terms of how it is broadcast.
What we are most familiar with and what we all listen to is
analog AM. The other end of the spectrum is digital AM. And the
receivers today, very few of them can receive all-digital.
What we are also familiar with is what is called hybrid,
and that is stations that, in band, deliver both digital and
analog broadcasting. The challenge is, for the hybrid
broadcasting, it is not a reliable system, it is very finicky,
it is tricky to keep it operating well. But it is what we
chose, as a country, through the Commission, to get to the
digital place that we needed on the AM band.
The station I mentioned earlier in Frederick, Maryland, is
broadcasting an all-digital. It sounds like a CD. It is
wonderful. But we can't listen to it unless we have the radio
that receives it.
Mr. Pfluger. It is a great point. So I think, you know--I
wanted to establish the fact that AM radio is a national
security issue. It is an issue for our Emergency Management
System. The receiver is important in this. When I listen to
KWEL in Midland, Texas, you know, myself and many other
ranchers, farmers, people that are in the oil fields, they may
not have a digital receiver or a hybrid receiver.
So Mr. Schmidt, I recently signed on to a letter--and
upstairs we are having a committee hearing on mandates from
another Federal agency, so I am not a mandate, pro-mandate kind
of a person--but I am very concerned about the lack of AM
radios in vehicles. And I would like to hear, you know, what
your thoughts are on how we continue to allow private markets
to work but also allow our population to have the ability to
tune in, because it really is a national security issue.
Mr. Schmidt. Yes, thank you for the comment and question.
Yes, I am--as I have reiterated, I think our members are
fully and--committed to providing a plethora of options and
mechanisms through the IPAWS system. AM radio is one of them.
We also--our members go through and look at the consumer
demands, consumer listenership, and that folds into their
individual product decisions, which I can't elaborate on any
further.
But it is--manufacturers now offer a kind of, like,
dizzying amount of options, and I think that is good. And we
look forward to working with the Federal Government, FEMA, and
the IPAWS in trying to--strengthening the whole system, because
I do understand and recognize through the various strategic
plans that even FEMA has concerns about AM radio's future
because of the declining listenership. And so we have to look
forward at what we can do to provide the kind of--the Nation
with what they need. Thank you.
Mr. Pfluger. I would encourage that. It is very important.
This is foundational to our national security and to getting
information out to the populace.
And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Obernolte. The gentleman yields back. We will go next
to the gentlewoman from Tennessee.
Mrs. Harshbarger, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all
for being here today to come to testify.
You know, this just my opinion, but I think taking AM
radios out of a car is a bad decision by automakers. Most of
the people in my district put gas in their cars or gas or
diesel in their trucks, and they don't drive EVs. And a lot of
them have computers that they don't get on very often, and they
don't have smartphones.
And Mr. Schmidt, you know, my question to you is, are
manufacturers considering cutting AM in gas-powered vehicles?
And I say that because I heard something that Mr. Chapman said
earlier, and he alluded to that.
Mr. Schmidt. Well, as I have mentioned, we are committed
for a full range and plethora of options for getting these
systems, and individual company decisions on specific
technologies is not something I really can comment on.
Mrs. Harshbarger. OK, that is fine.
Mr. Chapman, you said in your statement earlier most PEP
stations or AM radio stations, because their signals can cover
vast areas, some with the 700-mile coverage radius, and travel
better through solid objects like mountains. I represent east
Tennessee. All we have is mountains. We have the Great Smoky
Mountains. And, you know, FEMA has invested millions in these
stations, and they are battle-hardened and--to withstand
various national disasters, you say, and terrorism so we are
able to communicate critical information.
You also say that wireless emergency alerts are not as
reliable in these situations, as cell towers can be damaged and
networks are overwhelmed by high call volume.
And Lieutenant Colonel, you talked about some of the forest
fires, severe weather events and forest fires, and, you know, I
represent the Great Smoky Mountains, Sevier County, and we had
a wildfire last year that destroyed numerous homes. And we had
a huge--one of the worst disasters in Tennessee in 2016, with
the fires in Gatlinburg, and we lost a lot of lives. And there
was--there were communication problems. They were overwhelmed,
the radio systems were overwhelmed. And that is why I feel like
we absolutely need to keep the AM radio service as, you know,
an emergency system.
And, you know, I guess we are paying consumers to buy EVs,
which is indirectly a subsidy to automakers. And you can tell
me if you agree with this, but maybe we should think about
removing that tax credit for EVs if they don't have an AM radio
system. But it is an important, incredibly important thing to
keep these avenues open for things like that.
Lieutenant Colonel, do you have anything to add about the
emergency broadcast systems, and how important they are?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you for the opportunity,
Congresswoman.
I agree. We have some rural areas in New Jersey,
surprisingly, as much as we might look like a very suburban-
urban State, and the reach of the cellular networks in some of
those areas, particularly in an area where we just had a forest
fire this past week, was very limited.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Yes.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. And the communication means with those
individuals, if they had to evacuate, would almost primarily
have been through the AM radio band----
Mrs. Harshbarger. Yes.
Lt. Col. DeMaise [continuing]. To communicate with those
partners.
Mrs. Harshbarger. Yes, that is the issue. And I have two
distressed counties where, when I said that earlier, it wasn't
to say that we are not a sophisticated district, it is to say
that a lot of people don't have those smartphones, a lot of
people don't use or access computers because we have the lack
of broadband. And so, in my opinion, it is critically important
to keep AM service going.
And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Obernolte. The gentlewoman yields back. We will go next
to the gentleman from Idaho.
Mr. Fulcher, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A question for
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise.
In terms of emergency broadcasting, it is my understanding
that you are deputy State director of emergency management and
you have also had roles in State Emergency Response Commission.
Would you just share for a moment about the footprint of AM
versus other emergency broadcasting channels? What percentage
of emergency broadcasting would you say goes currently through
AM channels?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Well, that is a technical question I
don't necessarily have the exact scope and answer to. I am kind
of understanding your meaning----
Mr. Fulcher. Could you just speak to the level of
dependance that our emergency systems have on AM versus other
options?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Yes. In our rural areas, certainly that
percentage of dependance would be much higher than the cellular
networks in that there's areas, believe it or not, in New
Jersey where there is no cellular connectivity whatsoever.
In many cases, we are seeing a transition throughout our
society where people are not, you know, securing landlines as
much anymore, and relying on cellular networks for their
communications means.
So to the point of when we have that crisis and that
emergency happens and that person is either at their residence
or may be in transition through an area with very limited
cellular connectivity, the AM radio band would be one of the
primary means for us to communicate----
Mr. Fulcher. OK, so it is significant. It is a significant
vehicle for communications of emergency.
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Yes, sir.
Mr. Fulcher. OK. Mr. Schmidt, there's been a couple
questions that's come your way in this regard. And I don't know
that I really got a good understanding of your comments on it.
Maybe that is on purpose, maybe it is not. But how is it that
not all auto manufacturers are having the same issues with
interference when it comes to emergency vehicles?
Mr. Schmidt. Well, interference, you know, my understanding
of interference is dependent on vehicle architecture, and
different--even within various EVs, those architectures change.
Motors can be in different places, the electronic devices can
be in different places, the receiver can be at different
places. And space--you know, EMF drops off rapidly with space.
So what may be an issue with one, that one manufacturer versus
another, and the remediation from one to the other will be
somewhat different.
And I really can't comment, since I am not aware of
specific architectures, but I think there are differences in
how vehicle manufacturers are--or vehicles are constructed, and
the--kind of levels of EMF and the levels of shielding needed,
and also maybe within the software used to filter the signals
to clean them up. And so----
Mr. Fulcher. So let me ask you this, because I am having a
hard time just on the technical front--having just a little bit
of technical background--with the response from some that this
is a technical issue, that it is just an interference that, you
know, just can't be overcome or it is just too cumbersome. We
have heard things about the shielding expense, the weight.
Do you buy into the--to that? Do you--or--you are a safety
person. Is there a safety implication to this?
Mr. Schmidt. From a safety standpoint, I think it is very
critical, and that is where our commitment comes from, is that
we are looking at all avenues of the IPAWS to provide alerts,
and our members are committed to doing that. And we have--
provide many, many ways of getting information out through our
vehicles now. So that is our----
Mr. Fulcher. So in terms of implementing an AM option, you
are not aware of safety concerns in terms of the actual
implement in the vehicle.
Mr. Schmidt. No.
Mr. Fulcher. Mr. Chapman, would you care to address any of
that?
Again, just to reframe my comment, I am struggling with
just this idea that, ``Oh, wait, we have technical obstacles,
we can't get this put in place,'' but yet some suppliers, some
manufacturers seem to be able to get this handled and some do
not. Can you comment on that?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, I think that is a fair question.
I am a broadcaster. There are some automakers that have chosen
to figure it out, and other automakers have not. So other than
that, I don't know how to answer it.
You did ask a moment ago about the number of radio
stations. There's roughly 15,000 commercial radio stations
across the country; 4,500 of those are AM radio stations. To
put it into perspective, you know, the Emergency Alert System.
Mr. Fulcher. And thank you for that. I will wrap up my
comments with this, but I think you said a key word in your
answer. You said they have chosen to work this out, and I think
that is exactly right.
I yield back.
Mr. Obernolte. The gentleman yields back. We will go next
to my colleague from Ohio.
Congressman Johnson, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me to
waive on to today's hearing.
You know, AM radio reception is an important communications
asset for rural Appalachian areas, including much of my
district in eastern Ohio. Personally, I appear frequently on AM
radio shows as a way to communicate with constituents in my
district. But more importantly, it is a necessary and critical
public safety asset, especially for remote areas where
broadband and even cellular service are not always available.
I am pleased that my legislation, H.R. 1353, the ALERT
Parity Act, recently passed the House of Representatives, as it
calls for the establishing of rules through which providers of
emergency connectivity service can provide access to 9-1-1 and
emergency alerts in unserved areas.
It is unfathomable for many to understand that there
remains in America remote areas that still lack reliable
cellular service. And removing AM radio receivers from vehicles
in rural America would only compound the issue by cutting off
access to the backbone of our Nation's emergency communications
infrastructure in areas that have truly limited communication
options already.
Thank you, Chairman Latta, for holding this important
hearing, and thank you to our witnesses for providing your
valuable insight on this issue today.
Mr. Schmidt, you stated in your testimony that the
Integrated Public Alert and Warning System, or IPAWS, was
designed to provide redundant alert mechanisms to ensure the
public has access to multiple outlets to receive emergency
alerts. As I just mentioned, there are remote areas in my
district that lack cellular and broadband service. If AM radio
receivers are removed from vehicles, can you please discuss the
options people who live or travel in these remote areas will
have for receiving emergency alerts and public safety
information?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for that question, and yes, as you
mentioned, from my--we are committed for looking at going
through the whole range of the IPAWS, because that is a safety
network as well. And there are things such as satellite that do
have very strong coverage across the Nation as well.
So each part of that network has pros and cons, and I think
that is why FEMA is looking to try to diversify it and even
modernize it, because I think, again, I think our view is we
are technology forward, and we are trying to look at how to
address some of the issues that FEMA has already identified
with AM and how to move it forward for the future.
Mr. Johnson. Well, let me expand on that question. Let me
ask it a different way.
So no cellular, no broadband, it seems to me like in many
areas of the country--and if we take AM out--the only available
communication that many people will have in rural areas is
satellite, correct?
Mr. Schmidt. Yes.
Mr. Johnson. OK, all right.
Well, Mr. Chapman, as you know, broadcasters stepped up
during the COVID pandemic to continue providing local
communities with fact-based journalism, breaking news, and
support for local businesses. What was the role of AM radio in
this type of coverage?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, thank you for the question.
One of the things that we did early on, we did fundraisers
for local businesses. This is as small-town as it gets. We
opened up the mikes, and we started selling business cards for
those businesses. And that money all went to those local
businesses. That is one way that radio steps up.
Another way is the increased investment that we have made
in our news operation. Towns like Anderson, Indiana, have been
through a lot. They need somebody to help them understand
complex issues. When we up our news department on WHBU, it
means that we are having more people to deal with those issues,
to have it on the radio so the community can have a better
understanding.
Mr. Johnson. OK.
Mr. Chapman. It is the same thing we have done with
reprogramming one of our stations. It is to help the community
understand.
Mr. Johnson. OK. In your view, then, are there benefits of
AM radio for rural communities that cannot be provided through
other means?
Mr. Chapman. Absolutely. We have those two examples I just
shared with you.
Mr. Johnson. OK, all right.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back an entire 21 seconds.
Mr. Obernolte. I thank the gentleman for yielding back. It
looks like I am batting cleanup, so I will recognize myself for
5 minutes.
I want to thank you for your testimony today. You have done
a really good job of illustrating why AM radio is so important,
Mr. Chapman. I found your testimony about the incident with
your family and the train derailment to be very poignant.
But I want to echo the comments of several of my
colleagues, most recently Congressman Pfluger, in saying that
normally I am not a big fan of government mandates. You know, I
think that consumers are generally very intelligent about
deciding what they are willing to pay for and why, as long as
it is explained to them. So the question that we are debating
today is whether or not the Department of Transportation should
be empowered to mandate that an AM radio be part of every new
car sold. So I want to direct a couple of my questions to
getting to the heart of that.
Mr. Schmidt, do you know about how much a inclusion of an
AM radio adds to the cost of a car?
Mr. Schmidt. Thank you for the question. As I mentioned--I
think before you came in--that is information that I don't have
a firm grasp on. That is individual for each manufacturer and
their individual systems and what kind of remediation levels
they need to provide on it.
Mr. Obernolte. OK. So, I mean, I think it is fair to say it
is probably not a dollar. It is probably, I don't know, in the
$100 range, something like that. Does that sound fair?
Mr. Schmidt. I really don't know, because I don't----
Mr. Obernolte. I am just guessing, because I know it is
not--it is more than just the equipment. There is an antenna,
and AM radio antennas have to be quite long and installed in
the car.
So, I mean, let's just say it is in that range of that
figure. And without arguing one side or another, how would you
articulate the argument to a consumer who says, ``Look, that is
$100 of my money, I don't want an AM radio. I have got other
means of getting emergency information, so, you know, why are
you forcing me, you know, Department of Transportation, to pay
$100 or more for this equipment that I don't want?'`
Mr. Schmidt. Was that addressed to me? I am sorry.
Mr. Obernolte. Sure. Well, no, I mean, it is a hypothetical
conversation with a consumer who is saying, you know, to you,
``I don't want to be forced to pay $100 for equipment that I
don't want and won't use.'`
Mr. Schmidt. Yes, I think our position is that we think
mandates are a blunt instrument, and especially for a
technology that, as FEMA has said, is--has some declining
listenership.
And so I think, you know, again, I am--think it is
important for the consumers to understand and make those
decisions.
Mr. Obernolte. OK, fair enough.
Lieutenant Colonel DeMaise, I really enjoyed your
testimony. And one of the things that stuck with me is the
statistic that you cited that a third of AM radio listeners are
60 years of age or older. And I think that that sounds about
right. In fact, it might be, in my experience, might be a
little low.
One concern that I have, though, is that in modern cars the
AM radio system is buried so far in the user interface, I
question whether or not consumers can even find it. So if I put
my mother in my car that is just--it is all touch screen, and
it is--you know, it--and I asked her to tune in on an AM radio
station, I am not sure she could do it. What do you think about
that?
Lt. Col. DeMaise. Thank you, Congressman, that is a very
interesting point, and I think it goes down to the preparedness
component of emergency management.
We want people to exercise their plan, so to speak,
whatever that plan might be in a crisis, make sure that they
know what works. The time to sort out where those things are
isn't in the middle of the storm, it is prior to. And while it
may take some education and outreach associated with achieving
that goal, it is a worthwhile endeavor.
Mr. Obernolte. Right, I completely agree with you.
Mr. Chapman, you know, your testimony was very moving to me
about the experience that you had with the train derailment.
You mentioned that getting the information that you got over
the radio, that was the only solution at the time because cell
phones at the time were not capable of delivering that
information. But now they are. So--and they do it in a way that
is fundamentally different from radio, which is, you know, a
one-directional stream of information, whereas the cell phone,
you could say, ``Hey, what just happened, what is that glow,'`
and it can answer you.
So why would--does--you know, as technology changes, as the
way cars are equipped is changing, why should our method of
delivery for this emergency information not change with it?
Mr. Chapman. Congressman, thank you. I think it is a fair
question.
We have evolved the FEMA mechanisms from Conrail early on,
50 years ago, to our current form of alerts. It is important
that we recognize how to evolve things. But at the same time,
we can't stop and make a hard no and say that we are no longer
going to access a significant portion of the population, which
this would do right now. It is important to look at innovation,
but we don't have a ready fix to do at this point in time with
the removal of AM from the EAS system.
Mr. Obernolte. Right. Well, I want to thank you very much
for--everyone, for their testimony. We have no questioners left
here in the room.
So I ask unanimous consent to insert in the record the
documents included on the staff hearing documents list.
Without objection, that will be the order.
[The information appears at the conclusion of the hearing.]
Mr. Obernolte. And seeing no further Members to be
recognized, thank you very much for your testimony and for your
willingness to be here today to educate all of us on this
important issue.
There being no further business before the subcommittee,
I--oh, OK, I remind Members that they have 10 business days to
submit questions for the record. I ask the witnesses to respond
to the questions promptly, and I know you will. Members should
submit their questions by the close of business on Tuesday,
June the 20th.
Without objection, the subcommittee is now adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:43 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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