[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                         LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON.
                  H.R. 226, H.R. 7543, H.R. 7896, H.R. 7920,H.R. 
                   8529, H.R. 8661, H.R. 8646, H.R. 8647, H.R. 8514,
                         H.R. 8560, H.R. 8627, AND H.R. 8607

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                                 OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-68

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-198                       WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                       
                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY

                 DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                                     DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................     1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member.........................     2

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Mr. John Bell, Executive Director, Loan Guaranty Service, U.S. 
  Department of Veterans Affairs.................................     4

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. Joseph Garcia, Executive Director, Education Service, 
        U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

    Mr. James Ruhlman, Deputy Director, Education Service, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

    Ms. Jill Albanese, Director, Clinical Operations/Senior 
        Advisor, Veterans Health Administration, U.S. Department 
        of Veterans Affairs

                                Panel II

Dr. Jan Del Signore, President, National Association of Veterans 
  Program Administrators.........................................    13

Mr. Kevin O'Neil, Senior Employment and Education Policy 
  Associate, The American Legion.................................    14

Ms. Karen Kreutziger Powell, Chief Executive Officer of Flat Home 
  Loans, Mortgage Bankers Association............................    16

Mr. Marquis Barefield, Assistant National Legislative Director, 
  Disabled American Veterans.....................................    18

Mr. Richard Brookshire, Chief Executive Officer, Black Veterans 
  Project........................................................    19

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. John Bell Prepared Statement.................................    31
Dr. Jan Del Signore Prepared Statement...........................    49
Mr. Kevin O'Neil Prepared Statement..............................    55
Ms. Karen Kreutziger Powell Prepared Statement...................    67
Mr. Marquis Barefield Prepared Statement.........................    70
Mr. Richard Brookshire Prepared Statement........................    74

                       Statements For The Record

National Consumer Law Center Prepared Statement..................    77
Navy Federal Credit Union Prepared Statement.....................    78
Housing Policy Council Prepared Statement........................    79

                          APPENDIX--continued

The Military Coalition Prepared Statement........................    87
National Association of Realtors Prepared Statement..............    89
Student Veterans of America Prepared Statement...................    91
Veterans Education Success Prepared Statement....................    96
Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States Prepared Statement.   100
National Guard Association of the United States Prepared 
  Statement......................................................   102
Reserve Organization of America Prepared Statement...............   103
National Alliance to End Homelessness Prepared Statement.........   110
Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the United States 
  Prepared Statement.............................................   111

 
                         LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON
 H.R. 226, H.R. 7543, H.R. 7896, H.R. 7920, H.R. 8529, H.R. 8661, H.R. 
    8646, H.R. 8647, H.R. 8514, H.R. 8560, H.R. 8627, AND H.R. 8607

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JUNE 12, 2024

      Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:06 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Van Orden, Crane, Levin, and 
Ramirez.
    Also present: Representatives Vasquez, and Davis.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Van Orden. Good afternoon, everybody. Sorry about that, 
Kay. Surprise her. Surprise. The subcommittee will come to 
order. I welcome the witnesses and subcommittee members to 
today's hearing, and everyone who has participated in the 
subcommittee understands this is not a bipartisan committee, 
this is a nonpartisan committee and will continue to operate in 
that vein.
    We have got 12 important legislative proposals to consider 
today. It is--oh, sorry. Please be seated. Yes, sorry about 
that. I got all excited about legislation. I actually do. I am 
a much bigger nerd than I thought I was. It is important to 
note that not all of the proposals will move forward in today's 
process, are in the process, and we hold legislative hearings 
to learn from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and 
other groups about their views on the bills and ensure members 
are making informed decisions and when we do or do not--when we 
do or do not mark them up. We value the insight provided by 
these stakeholders and agencies as an essential part of this 
process. A number of these proposals seek to improve education 
programs for America's veterans and ensure that the GI Bill 
dollars are being used responsibly.
    I specifically want to highlight three of my bills that are 
on today's agenda. My--my first bill would modernize the 
requirement for VetSuccess on Campus (VSOC) officers and allow 
them to have a minimum of a bachelor's degree in a relevant 
field of study instead of a master's degree. This change will 
allow our VSOCs to service more student veterans on campus and 
possibly allow for services to be provided to nearby student 
veterans on other campuses. Other bills that I have introduced 
would allow individuals participating in the on-the-job 
training or apprenticeship to receive an increased amount of 
educational assistance paid during the--during months 6 through 
12 of the apprenticeship from 80 to 90 percent. This is a 
logical way to promote nontraditional ways for veterans to 
explore career opportunities.
    My last bill would establish a partial claim program that 
would bring the VA Home Loan Program on par with other programs 
such as Federal Housing Loan (FHA), Fannie Mae, and Freddie 
Mac. This partial claim authority would be in step--would be a 
step in the loss mitigation process before the Veterans Affairs 
Servicing Purchase (VASP) program, which I have deep seated 
concerns about.
    In the current high interest environment that we are living 
in, created by some terrible economic policies, my bill would 
allow a veteran who is behind on their mortgage to get a loan 
from the Federal Government--the Federal Government without 
having to enter into loan modification that would make their 
mortgage payments too costly to afford. The legislation would 
allow VA to provide assistance without purchasing the entire 
property, which is a key difference from the proposed vast 
expansion.
    Many of you have heard previously me express my frustration 
with the idea of the VA taking responsibility for as many as 
60,000 mortgages that would put the American taxpayers on the 
hook if they are foreclosed to the tune of $16 billion, which 
could potentially destroy the second best program that has been 
created under the Veterans' Administration, and that is the VA 
Home Loan Guarantee, the first one, of course, being the GI 
Bill.
    My bill would allow VA to provide limited assistance and 
include mechanisms to encourage repayment as soon as the 
veterans are able. I do look forward to working with the 
minority and my friends in the Senate to see if we can find a 
better way to help these veterans without destroying the VA 
Home Loan Program.
    At this hearing, we are also going to discuss legislation 
to allow National Guard and Reservists who are activated while 
in school to receive a grade instead of an incomplete, provided 
they can reach an agreement with their school and professors.
    Additional bills that will be considered would address 
education, home loan, and homelessness, which is my ranking 
member's number one legislative priority. I have reservations 
about some of the proposals on the agenda today, and the 
witnesses testimony and questions from members will hopefully 
address some of these issues so that we can make informed 
decisions about whether or not to move these forward in the 
legislative process. We look forward to hearing from the 
members who have been introduced, who have introduced these 
proposals, as well as our witnesses on how we can continue to 
improve these bills and better the lives of our veterans.
    I now yield to my friend, Ranking Member Levin from the 
great State of California, for 5 minutes.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. Levin. Thank you to my friend, Chairman Van Orden, for 
holding this legislative hearing on 12 pieces of legislation, 
and also congratulations on a successful jump at Normandy 
commemorating the 80th anniversary of D-Day. I want to start 
out by highlighting a few of the bills on the agenda that will 
ensure equity and benefits for service members, veterans, 
spouses, and dependents, expand much needed benefits for 
homeless veterans, and increase the post-9/11 GI Bill books and 
supply stipend.
    First, I would like to thank Ranking Member Takano for his 
partnership on the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 
2024. This important piece of legislation would ensure National 
Guard and Reservist service members receive post-91/1 GI Bill 
eligibility for every day spent in uniform. This means that 
every day conducting operations, training, attending military 
schools, conducting weekend drill and annual training 
requirements, or responding to National disasters would count 
toward earning post-9/11 GI Bill educational benefits.
    Additionally, homelessness continues to be a top priority 
of mine, and there is not a one size fits all solution. We must 
take a comprehensive approach to address the underlying needs 
of each individual veteran until every veteran has a place to 
call home. Ranking Member Takano, Representative Waters, I 
partnered on the End Veteran Homelessness Act that will allow 
thousands more veterans to be served in the U.S. Department of 
Housing and Urban Development (HUD) VA Supportive Housing 
program. This crucial piece of legislation will drastically 
reduce the number of homeless veterans and increase the 
utilization of U.S. Department of Housing and Urban 
Development-Veterans Affairs Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH) 
vouchers.
    Next, Representative Clyburn's VA Housing Loan Forever Act 
will address historic racial inequities faced by veterans. This 
significant piece of legislation would grant eligibility to the 
VA Home Loan Program for military family members of World War 
II, Korean, and Vietnam War veterans who are promised benefits 
based on their service but unable to actually use these 
benefits due to redlining and discriminatory practices. We have 
a moral obligation to make this right, and this will have a 
huge impact on this generation and subsequent generations for 
home ownership.
    Last, Representative Vasquez's bill would increase the 
books and supply stipend that veterans receive each academic 
year. This stipend has not been increased since the post-9/11 
GI Bill benefits were enacted in 2008.
    Many veterans cannot stretch the yearly books and supply 
stipend to cover all their needs. I have heard this frequently, 
and they often end up paying out of pocket to ensure they have 
everything they need. This bill would help to ensure that no 
longer happens and that our student veterans have the books, 
supplies, and equipment they need to be successful.
    Moving on, we are considering the VA Home Loan Reform Act. 
I was surprised to see this legislation on the VA Home Loan 
Program instead of Representative Deluzio and Senator Tester's 
bill H.R 7898, the Veterans Housing Stability Act of 2024, that 
was introduced in April of this year. I want to be clear. I 
support the intent of providing VA with additional tools to 
help veterans avoid foreclosure. However, Representative 
Deluzio's bill is much more comprehensive. It would provide 
authority for the VA to request moratoriums on foreclosures in 
the event of a National emergency and establish a partial claim 
program for up to 30 percent of the unpaid principal. I am 
concerned that the bill on the agenda is meant to replace the 
VASP portion of the loss mitigation waterfall, something I 
cannot support. We should be adding to VA's toolbox, not taking 
tools away.
    Finally, I am pleased we are considering a bill that 
focuses on allowing more post-secondary vocational institutions 
to offer hybrid learning. However, I do have some concerns 
around the drafting of the bill to ensure we are not opening up 
the aperture for bad actors to take advantage of veterans GI 
Bill benefits. As I have said before, the subcommittee has a 
treasure trove of bills that are ready for consideration. I 
would welcome more legislative hearings this year and I stand 
ready to work with the chairman on his priorities.
    Also, I look forward to our upcoming events, such as the 
Subcommittee Markup and the Oversight Hearing on homelessness 
programs later this month. Chairman Van Orden and I share this 
as a top priority. We still have so much to accomplish. The 
calendar keeps getting shorter. With that, Mr. chairman, I 
yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. I will now 
introduce the witness panel. Our first witness is Mr. John 
Bell, the executive director of Loan Guaranty Services at the 
Department of Veterans Affairs. Mr. Bell is accompanied by Mr. 
Joe Garcia, executive director of education services; Mr. James 
Ruhlman, deputy director of education services; and Ms. Jill 
Albanese, director of clinical operations.
    I ask the witnesses of the first panel to please stand and 
raise your right hand.
    Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to 
provide is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 
truth? Thank you.
    Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in 
the affirmative.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Van Orden. I asked the witnesses today to have your 
seats, please. You guys know how this works. I do not ask you 
to respect the 5-minute rule. You are going to do it, or I will 
shut the microphone off. I hold myself to the same standard. 
Mr. Bell, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your 
testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans' Affairs.

                     STATEMENT OF JOHN BELL

    Mr. Bell. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member 
Levin, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting 
us here today to discuss pending legislation. Joining me today 
are Joe Garcia, Executive Director, and James Ruhlman, Deputy 
Director for Program Management, both from education service at 
the Veterans' Benefits Administration, and Jill Albanese, 
Director of Clinical Operations and Senior Advisor to the 
Executive Director for the VA Homeless Programs Office at the 
Veterans Health Administration.
    While VA's views on all of the bills are detailed in my 
written testimony, including areas of concern and support, I 
would like to highlight several bills in my opening remarks.
    First, VA highly supports the unnumbered bill that would 
authorize an annual increase of the amount payable for books 
and supplies. The current amount has remained unchanged for 15 
years, and with the cost of books increasing each year, we 
believe that books and supplies stipend should also increase to 
lower out-of-pocket expenses for our beneficiaries. VA also 
supports the unnumbered bill, which would increase the monthly 
housing allowance from 80 percent to 90 percent during the 
second period for beneficiaries participating in on-the-job 
training and apprenticeship programs. With the cost-of-living 
expenses steadily rising, this increase to the housing 
allowance will ease some of the financial strain on our 
veterans and allow them to focus more on gaining the skills 
needed to acquire meaningful employment.
    Regarding the Modernizing the Veterans on Campus Experience 
Act of 2024, VA does not support this bill unless amended. VA 
requests additional clarification on the definition of 
employees authorized to provide on campus services, given the 
specific educational requirements needed to provide counseling 
services. We also request clarity on the bill's restriction to 
provide case management services to no more than 25 individuals 
at any one time, as it will limit the VSOC's counselors ability 
to provide necessary outreach and walk-in services to student 
veterans, especially in serving multiple campuses.
    VA strongly supports efforts to end veteran homelessness, 
and as such, we support the End Veteran Homelessness Act of 
2024. This legislation would expand veterans' eligibility for a 
HUD-VASH program and allow more veterans experiencing or at 
risk of homelessness to obtain permanent housing. Regarding the 
Housing Loan Forever Act, VA supports this bill. If amended, we 
believe VA's proposed amendments to limit a legatee's benefit 
to a one-time purchase or construction loan for a first-time 
homebuyer will not jeopardize the objectives of the bill and 
will still make a meaningful difference for the families of 
veterans who served prior to 1978 and did not use their earned 
VA Home Loan benefit.
    Finally, VA appreciates the subcommittee's continued 
support to provide VA with additional flexibilities to help 
veterans experiencing financial difficulties retain their 
homes, and as such, we support Section 2 of the VA Home Loan 
Program Reform Act.
    However, we do not support the partial claim program 
outlined in Section 3 of the bill due to concerns that it would 
compromise veterans long-term financial standing and pose 
significant implementation challenges given the short-lived 
nature of the program. VA also does not support Section 4 of 
the bill because we believe that VA has, in announcing 
yesterday our strategy to address the changing real estate 
marketplace, VA announced a temporary policy to allow veterans 
to pay buyer broker fees when purchasing a home using their 
earned VA Home Loan benefit. We also noted that we will propose 
a permanent policy through rulemaking when full impacts of the 
class action lawsuit and the National Association of Realtors 
rule changes are fully understood.
    Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. We appreciate 
the congressional intent and welcome the opportunity to work 
closely with Congress on all of the bills on today's agenda. My 
colleagues and I are prepared to respond to any questions you 
or other members of the subcommittee may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of John Bell Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Bell. I am now going to 
recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Ms. 
Albanese, thank you for your testimony in support of the End 
Veteran Homelessness Act of 2024. A bill I am proud to co-lead 
with Ranking Members Takano and Waters. This bill will 
modernize the HUD-VASH program by expanding eligibility and 
making it more flexible. How will the expansion of eligibility 
for HUD-VASH and other authorities in this bill close the gap 
between unused vouchers and the veterans who are still 
experiencing homelessness?
    Ms. Albanese. Thank you very much for that question, 
Ranking Member Levin. We really do appreciate this very much. 
To answer your question, we know that there are many veterans. 
In fact, we know that there are thousands of veterans out there 
who are homeless who could benefit from having a HUD-VASH 
voucher. Right now, they are not eligible for that HUD-VASH 
voucher. By expanding the pool of veterans that can receive 
these vouchers, we can get those veterans off the streets now 
and permanently. What we know about HUD-VASH is that veterans 
do not return to homelessness when they have a permanent 
subsidy like HUD-VASH.
    This really, truly would end someone's homelessness. I 
heard recently that there was a veteran who was living in his 
car, he had a full-time job, was working every day, and 
therefore was deemed not needing case management. That 
veteran's not eligible for a HUD-VASH voucher, even though 
there were unused vouchers available at that local medical 
center. That veteran, if this bill were passed, could get a 
HUD-VASH voucher and again would end his homelessness 
permanently.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you for that. How much does VA estimate 
this bill will cost?
    Ms. Albanese. There--there is no cost. We----
    Mr. Levin. No cost.
    Ms. Albanese. Yes.
    Mr. Levin. That is good.
    Ms. Albanese. We will use--we are not asking for additional 
vouchers. We will use the existing resources that we have to--
we are just asking for more flexibility, really, to use the 
vouchers the way we want to.
    Mr. Levin. Appreciate that. I want to turn to the VA Home 
Loan Program. VA recently updated its policy to temporarily 
allow veteran buyers using the VA Home Loan Program to 
negotiate and pay their own buyer broker fee within certain 
safeguards. Veterans were previously not allowed to pay their 
own buyer broker fees when they bought a home through the VA 
Home Loan Program. A recent legal settlement will likely lead 
to a greater expectation that homebuyers pay their own buyer 
broker fees, putting veterans at a disadvantage in securing a 
home. Mr. Bell, I will ask this of you. When does VA plan to 
make this new rule permanent?
    Mr. Bell. Sir, we are working on the regulation now. We 
wanted to make sure that as implementation gets closer for the 
National Association of Realtors (NAR) settlement in August, 
that we are able to take that feedback from the public and then 
make a fully informed decision about, you know, whether or not 
there are addition--whether or not there are maximum fees that 
should be charged for--for veterans to make sure that they are 
still able to be competitive, but also get that public feedback 
on--on how we should move forward.
    Mr. Levin. At a minimum, could you commit to not rescinding 
this temporary prohibition and returning to former policy?
    Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Appreciate that. Mr. Garcia, I will turn to you. 
I think we agree veterans should never have to worry that their 
education is being jeopardized or that they are going to be 
harmed by a predatory institution. I worked on passing 
legislation to ensure proper oversight measures for the VA and 
to restore education benefits to defrauded veterans. The 
Veterans Education and Technical Skills Opportunity Act would 
change the definition of institutions of higher education for 
the purposes of independent study, specifically to include 
post-secondary vocational institutions. My question for you, 
sir, does this bill provide adequate standards, in your view, 
to qualify to participate in student financial assistance 
programs that are authorized by Title IV?
    Mr. Garcia. We have concerns about that because the way the 
language is now, it is qualified to participate versus approved 
and participate. Education Department really are the subject 
matter experts when it comes to Title IV approval. The way the 
bill is written now, we would then have to determine who is 
qualified. Right? Again, that is not our expertise. The concern 
is you bring us into it, you may have two agencies reaching 
different conclusions on being qualified. Why not stick with 
the language now for Title IV: approved and participate versus 
determining somebody who is qualified? That would be the 
concern.
    Mr. Levin. Got it. I appreciate that, Mr. Garcia. One more 
question for you. By expanding the definition of independent 
study to allow vocational schools to provide online learning, 
would the bill potentially open up the aperture for bad actors?
    Mr. Garcia. Sir, with the state-approved agencies, what 
they do now, we believe that that would not be an issue because 
you do not want to prevent good programs from coming in. You 
already have the safeguards to prevent bad programs from--from 
being there. We think there is more benefit to it with existing 
controls already in place with us and the State approved 
agencies.
    Mr. Levin. Out of time. He is about to hit that gavel, so 
yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. The chair 
now recognizes Ms. Ramirez for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, ranking 
member. I want to thank our witnesses for joining us today. I 
have had an opportunity to hear from a number of you, so it is 
good to see you again. It is important, as we are discussing a 
number of bills that aim to improve the lives of our veterans, 
including those that would help prevent homelessness, expand 
opportunities to obtain housing, improve educational benefits, 
and address educational equity, that we get into a little bit 
more of the substance of it. I want to start with Ms. Albanese. 
Did I pronounce your name correctly?
    Ms. Albanese. Close enough. Thank you.
    Ms. Ramirez. Okay. Thank you. I am big on that. I wanted to 
ask you, we know that the flexibilities integrated in the 
emergency housing voucher program have worked to reduce 
homelessness and get people in stable housing during the 
pandemic. My question to you is, how does the End Veteran 
Homeless Act adopt some of those flexibilities and why are they 
so necessary to our ability to get veterans quickly moved into 
permanent housing?
    Ms. Albanese. Yes, thank you so much for the question. What 
we found during the pandemic that the more flexibilities we 
had, the more veterans we could house. Having these additional 
flexibilities with the HUD-VASH program, it is going to allow 
our case managers to provide services to those veterans who 
need it the most, but still provide the HUD-VASH voucher to 
veterans who maybe do not need intensive case management 
services. That is going to allow us to house more veterans 
within the HUD-VASH program. It is also going to allow us to 
move veterans who maybe were in another housing program, maybe 
in another assistance program, into HUD-VASH if they need the 
case management and if that is a more appropriate program.
    Ms. Ramirez. Got it. Additionally, I--I think I have 
mentioned this before, and actually this question can be to 
you, or it could be to Mr. Bell, but I used to run a homeless 
shelter. I did that--I was there for about 13 years. I know I 
look very young for that, but it happened. I worked with a lot 
of veterans who were experiencing homelessness, who oftentimes 
the time that it took to help them move into permanent housing 
really had an impact on their mental health. I wanted to ask 
you, or Mr. Bell, do you think that the End Veteran Homeless 
Act will also serve as another tool to really help reduce 
suicide among our veterans? I mean, we know, for example, that 
homeless veterans are 186 percent higher, at higher rate than 
non-homeless veterans, in committing suicide. I am interested 
in your take on that, Mr. Bell or Ms. Albanese.
    Ms. Albanese. I will say, absolutely it will. We know that 
homelessness or risk of homelessness is absolutely a high risk 
for suicide. What this bill will do is it will also allow us 
to--it will allow us to serve more veterans and house more 
veterans. It will also allow us to serve more veterans who are 
at risk of homelessness, and we know that that is a risk factor 
for suicide.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. Then I guess one of my last 
questions here. This one I want to move and shift a little bit 
into the VA Home Loan Reform Act. Mr. Bell, this one is for 
you. The Veteran Affairs Servicing Purchase program is set to 
start at the end of May, and through VASP, as the last option, 
the VA will purchase qualified veterans modified loans from 
their servicer. The VA Home Loan Reform Act would create 
partial claims program. My question to you is, what is the VA 
doing to ensure that those veterans who were forced to take 
much higher interest rates when the COVID provisions ended and 
before the VASP implementation are taken care of?
    Mr. Bell. Thank you for your question. This--this speaks 
directly to the reason why we needed VASP. That was a unique 
set of borrowers, of veterans that went through The Coronavirus 
Aid, Relief, and Economic Security (CARES) Act, had 
forbearances, they were at 2.5 to 3 percent interest rate, and 
we needed a--a place where we could solve for the past due 
payments, but we needed payment reduction. And payment 
reduction is what allows VASP to work. We are hoping that as we 
get over--over this one occurrence, that there are other means 
in our lost mitigation waterfall that our servicers can use to 
help veterans as they move, if they do go into default, that we 
can help them succeed. It is just that is why it is the last 
option in that waterfall. It is all about payment reduction. 
They needed a time and place payment reduction when 2.5 percent 
interest rate is what they have now, 2.5 to 3, and raise her at 
7 percent, so----
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. That is helpful. Thank you, Mr. 
Bell. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. In accordance with committee rule 5E-Echo, I 
ask unanimous consent that Representative Vasquez from 
California----
    Mr. Vasquez. New Mexico.
    Mr. Van Orden. New Mexico. Oh, my gosh. You know what? I am 
going to haze myself. Immediately following this committee 
hearing. From New Mexico will be permitted to participate in 
today's subcommittee hearing. Hearing no objections, we will 
proceed. Mr. Vasquez, from the great State of New Mexico, you 
are now recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Vasquez. Thank you so much, Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin. We do have a saying, do not California my New 
Mexico. I am going to hold you to that, although I love the 
great State of California. Distinguished members of the House 
Veterans Affairs Subcommittee on the Economic Opportunity for 
allowing me to testify today in support of my bill, the 
Veterans Education Assistance Adjustment Act. Thank you to our 
witnesses that are here as well joining us.
    Our veterans have made an extraordinary sacrifice for our 
country. It is our duty to support them as they transition to 
civilian life and pursue their educational goals. The post-9/11 
GI Bill has been a key part of our promise to veterans, 
offering them the educational benefits they need to reach their 
academic and their career goals post service. However, to 
maintain the effectiveness of this vital program, we need to 
make sure the financial support it provides keeps up with 
inflation and a changing economy. Currently, the financial 
support for books, supplies, and equipment provided under the 
post-9/11 GI Bill stands at $1,000 per year. This amount, 
unchanged over a decade, no longer reflects the rising costs of 
educational materials and living expenses. My bill, the 
Veterans Education Assistance Adjustment Act, would increase 
the maximum stipend for books and supplies to $1,400 per year. 
Additionally, it introduces a cost of living adjustment each 
year, ensuring that the financial support keeps pace with 
inflation and the ever increasing costs that our veterans and 
their families face today.
    Books and other educational supplies can be a barrier for 
many students. 2008 was the last time an adjustment was made. 
Alarmingly, $1,000 in 2008 is equal to $1,450 today. Veterans 
should not be required to subsidize that additional cost with 
their limited incomes. As the cost of materials rise, our 
veterans deserve the necessary financial support to continue 
their education.
    My district, New Mexico's second congressional district, 
with one of the highest rates of service per capita, including 
the highest rates amongst Native Americans, is home to almost 
50,000 veterans, and New Mexico is home to 3,700 veterans 
currently enrolled in veteran educational assistant benefits. I 
am honored to come before this committee today to advocate for 
them and the benefits they rightfully deserve for serving our 
country, as well as all the veterans enrolled in these benefits 
in all of our districts across the country. It has been well 
over a decade since anyone took into account the cost of 
education supplies for veterans, and that is why I am here 
today to advocate for my bill that will provide veterans with 
the financial stability that they need to focus on their 
studies as they transition to civilian life.
    We need to do better to assist the heroes who served our 
country. The cost of books should not be a barrier to education 
and to a future career. I ask that the Chairman, Ranking 
Member, and members of this subcommittee support my legislation 
to increase this crucial stipend for veterans education 
assistance. Thank you all for considering my bill. I yield 
back, Mr. Chairman
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Vasquez, I want to thank you for coming, 
and I appreciate--I appreciate this bill. There is precedent 
set already through the Vocational Rehabilitation program, 
where they pay for books and supplies, and what I suggest we do 
is look at how that program is administered in the cost and see 
if we can apply some type of formula to this. You are right. 
We--we should not have our veterans who served our country 
subsidizing their own education. One--one of the primary 
reasons some people do join the military is to have educational 
benefits. We are in a recruiting crisis now. I really--I 
appreciate you coming here tremendously.
    A tradition in the subcommittee is, when we ever have 
anybody come talk, is that you are given a gift, and it is 
Wisconsin cheese. Matthew just left, and if he is not back in 
time, if you want to take off, that will be delivered to your 
office, and you are always welcome here. I appreciate your 
heart for veterans, sir.
    Mr. Vasquez. Chairman, you know the way to my heart. I 
appreciate it.
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. I now recognize, or the chair now 
recognizes himself in the third person for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bell, you were here before when we were discussing 
VASP, and I asked you specifically, if all things went to pot, 
would the Veterans' Affairs Administration, before closing on 
homes? You said, yes. Everything, this whole waterfall, does 
not work out. You said that the VA would foreclose on veterans 
homes. Then I had the secretary of Veterans' Affairs, Denis 
McDonough, a man that I respect tremendously, and I asked him, 
in what universe do you see the Veterans Affairs Administration 
foreclosing on a veteran home who was incapable of paying their 
mortgage after we go through this whole thing? He said, there 
is not one.
    The secretary of Veterans' Affairs said that there is no 
way that the VA would be foreclosing on homes, and you said 
that they would if all of these schemes do not work out. Who is 
running the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Mr. Bell, you or 
Secretary McDonough.
    Mr. Bell. Sir, of course the Secretary runs the VA. What I 
will say is we are doing everything that we can, including 
talking about the legislation that we have presented today, as 
well as the VASP program, and making sure that every veteran is 
given the opportunity to not foreclose.
    Mr. Van Orden. I understand, Mr. Bell. Are you telling me 
that you inadvertently delivered the wrong testimony to this 
committee under oath, or you did that on purpose because your 
testimony and the secretary of Veterans' Affairs testimony are 
incongruent?
    Mr. Bell. No, sir. The answer is--is, again, I stand by 
that there are certainly times, unfortunately, where we have to 
foreclose on veterans.
    Mr. Van Orden. Do I need to ask the secretary to revise his 
testimony, or do I need to ask you to revise yours? This is an 
incredibly important issue because we are talking about 
destroying the second-best program that has ever been 
developed.
    Mr. Bell. Sir, I will take that back to the--to the 
Department.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. That is a completely unacceptable 
answer, sir. You gave the exact opposite answer to the 
secretary about a program that could potentially--a program 
within a program that could destroy it and not allow our 
veterans to purchase homes. Again, this speaks to the fact that 
I do not think that this VASP program has been thought out very 
well. Our second panel, we are going to be talking about the VA 
Housing Loan Forever Act of 2024, right?
    Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. How many folks would be eligible for this? 
The expansion of the VA Home Loan Program.
    Mr. Bell. It is an unknown, sir, and that is one of the 
things that we need to work through with the--with the bill, is 
to understand exactly what veterans are eligible.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay, I read your testimony. It is great. I 
just have a couple questions here.
    Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Are you telling me, the Veterans' Affairs, 
that the VA is willing to foreclose on the home of a World War 
II veterans granddaughter who is given these benefits through 
an expansion of the program?
    Mr. Bell. Again, sir, there is every--we expend every 
opportunity within VA----
    Mr. Van Orden. I get it.
    Mr. Bell [continuing]. with our servicers to, you know, to 
try not to foreclose on any veterans. What I am before you 
today to speak about is for our continued support in trying to 
solve an issue where we do not----
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Bell, I understand your intent 
explicitly. I also understand the fact that you have decided to 
extend this moratorium until December. Is that correct?
    Mr. Bell. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. If you guys, if your ship is 
watertight and everything is good to go, and you are going to 
launch it out to everybody, like you told me you were prepared 
to do so before, why would you have to extend anything? Why 
cannot you push go?
    Mr. Bell. Sir, there is one thing for us to be able to take 
in or to establish the program, that happened on May 31st, 
which was what was promised. Whether or not a servicer's 
technical is--is ready from a technical standpoint to transfer 
those loans to us, that is why we needed the additional time, 
because we do not want to leave any veteran behind that we can 
help.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Bell, no one wants to leave a veteran 
behind, but I am afraid you are going to destroy something that 
is the second-best program that has ever been created by the 
VA, because you have not thought this program through. I am out 
of time.
    Before I dismiss this panel, I feel compelled again to 
express my deepest reservation about what the Veterans' Affairs 
Committee is potentially doing. I mean, if we look at these 
things, the application of this VASP, their implementation of 
this and this $16 billion that we are signing up for, and now 
we are talking about potentially expanding VA Loan Home 
Guarantees to an unknown number of people--which you 
articulated very well, that your concerns--I just I am 
unwilling to allow that to take place on my watch. No one wants 
a homeless veteran. It is Ranking Member Levin's priority. It 
is my priority.
    If we do this and we destroy the program in its entirety, 
trying to save it, the amount of homeless veterans we are going 
to have is going to be exponentially more. The road to hell is 
paved with good intentions, and I feel like we are taking that 
off ramp with your VASP program, and I just want that noted 
again for the record. I am not impugning your reputation, sir, 
or saying that your heart is not in the right place. Any one of 
you. I understand that. I just, we are trying to get to the 
same place, but the route you are choosing to take is going 
to--is going to destroy something that is--that is good.
    I do need to note that, Mr.--the written statement, Mr. 
Bell, will be entered into the record.
    Thank you very much for coming, everybody. I appreciate it 
greatly. You are excused, and I hope that you stick around for 
the second panel.
    Can we empanel the second panel, please?
    The Clerk. Here they come.
    Mr. Van Orden. Oh, wow, look at that.
    The Clerk. Poof. There you go.
    Mr. Van Orden. We are all sitting here staring at each 
other and wondering who is.
    On our second panel, we are going to wind up--if you just 
stay standing for a second. On our second panel, we are going 
to hear from the following witnesses. Dr. Jan Del Signore, 
President of the National Association of Veterans' Program 
Administrators; Mr. Kevin O'Neil, Senior Employment and 
Education Policy Associate at the American Legion; Ms. Karen 
Kreutziger. What is it? Kreutziger? Okay. Kreutziger Powell, 
Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Flat Home Loans on behalf of 
the Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA); Mr. Marquis. You know 
what, I get a Marquess in my district, you are a Marquis. Mr. 
Marquis Barefield, Assistant National Legislative Director at 
Disabled American Veterans (DAV); and Mr. Richard Brookshire, 
CEO and Founder of Black Veterans Project.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. Let the record reflect it. All 
witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Now you may be 
seated.
    Dr. Del Signore, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF JAN DEL SIGNORE

    Dr. Del Signore. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, 
and members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to 
speak at this hearing on pending legislation. My name is Dr. 
Jan Del Signore, President of the National Association of 
Veterans' Program Administrators, NAVPA. NAVPA's membership 
includes over 400 public and private colleges and universities 
across the Nation that represents over 530,000 student 
veterans.
    Most of our membership is comprised of school certifying 
officials, SCOs, and school administrators who administer or 
oversee GI Bill benefits for our student veterans. NAVPA has 
served as the voice of advocacy for veterans in higher 
education since its founding in 1975. I appreciate the 
opportunity to speak on the pending legislation topics that 
pertain to the institutions of higher learning, IHLs, and how 
previous outcomes have affected our military-connected students 
and veterans.
    NAVPA would like to address the following topics, the 
Student Veteran Debt Relief Act of 2024 and Performing 
Education for Veterans Act. One of our main concerns is how 
Public Law 116-315 Section 1019, has been implemented by the 
VA, causing undue hardship on student veterans and schools 
alike. When the VA determines a GI Bill recipient was paid 
Chapter 33 benefits incorrectly, those overpayment letters are 
sent to the institution.
    NAVPA members are reporting those overpayment letters 
include tuition payments as far back as 2010. Per the SCO 
handbook, the institution is required to retain student records 
for 3 years. The institution has difficulty understanding the 
reason for this 14-year-old debt since SCOs no longer have 
access to the VA, one once technology or even the student's 
records per Federal guidelines, or why it has taken the VA over 
14 years to determine a debt.
    Sometimes a student and/or graduate is unaware the VA has 
rescinded their GI Bill approval. These students are placed 
into collections causing unforeseen consequences such as 
negatively impacting their credit rating and personal financial 
portfolios. These actions are unknown to the student veteran as 
the school can no longer contact them. Not all student debt has 
been from years past, however.
    When the VA has rescinded a student veteran's GI Bill 
approval, NAVPA had one member report that both the school and 
student received overpayment letters prior to the student's 
final semester. This created a huge debt for the student where 
he had to retain--return thousands of dollars of his housing 
allowance back to the VA due to a VA clerical error, but was 
then facing no housing support to complete his final semester 
in school and graduate.
    In addition, he now owed his school thousands of dollars in 
tuition for the moneys the VA took back that were previously 
approved under his benefit. This action was not only unfair to 
that student veteran, but placed him into extreme financial 
hardship and dire straits.
    Our next topic concerns the Reform Education for Veterans 
Act. Currently, schools are required to follow guidance from 
the Department of Education, ED, and the DOD, Department of 
Defense, and how to administer to students when or if they are 
activated while attending the institution. The Department of ED 
currently has an outline, and the Department of Defense 
Instruction DOD 1322.25 provides guidance the schools must 
adhere to.
    NAVPA recommends an amendment to reflect current procedures 
followed by the Department of ED and the Department of Defense 
for when service members must withdraw or take a leave of 
absence to perform military duty. Public Law 117-333 added a 
time restraint upon the SCO to prepare for a VA compliance 
survey. The compliance survey change currently limits 
institutions to less than 10 business days to prepare for a 
review once notified is received.
    NAVPA members are reporting that there is not enough time 
to prepare for a VA compliance survey. Many schools are not 
receiving a reasonable amount of notification. Current 
legislation is maximum of 10 business days to prepare, 
organize, and upload the amount of documentation required. SCOs 
are working from the time they receive notification until the 
day of the site visit to gather the substantial amount of 
required documentation for the VA compliance survey, regardless 
of Federal holidays, weekends, school mandated events, or 
personal life events.
    Recently, one school reported they were notified on the 
Thursday prior to Memorial Day for a compliance survey at their 
institution for the following Wednesday. That was a 3-day 
business day notification over a Federal holiday when the 
school was closed.
    Centralized schools are reporting that they are being 
notified for different compliance survey locations on the same 
day. These centralized schools are categorized as one 
institution under the Department of Education, with these 
surveys often overlapped, creating triple duty or more for the 
SCO at times.
    Many SCOs are veterans themselves and are reporting that 
received notification for a VA compliance survey on the day 
they have an appointment at the VA hospital. Then there is a 
conflict and they cannot reschedule.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today, and I look 
forward to your questions regarding these topics.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jan Del Signore Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Dr. Del Signore, your testimony 
will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. O'Neil, you are 
now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF KEVIN O'NEIL

    Mr. O'Neil. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and 
distinguished members of this subcommittee, on behalf of 
National Commander Daniel J. Seehafer, and our 1.6 million 
members, the American Legion thanks you for the opportunity to 
testify on important legislation affecting veterans and their 
families. Before we delve into legislation, I want to express 
my admiration for the subcommittee's unwavering commitment to 
ensuring that veterans and their families receive the support 
they deserve in all facets of life.
    The legislation we are here to discuss today is a testament 
to this commitment, reflecting a strong desire to provide 
veterans with every available opportunity. These opportunities, 
often life changing, can transform the lives of veterans in 
ways that were once unimaginable. My own life was significantly 
transformed by the benefits made available to me following my 
military career. I remember sitting with a recruiter in 2008 at 
the age of 19 and hearing about the array of benefits that I 
would receive as a result of my military service.
    Even at that time, despite having no desire to obtain a 
degree, I found it astonishing that the GI Bill would allow 
veterans to attend college with little to no cost out of 
pocket. It took time for me to develop the desire to attend 
college, but when I finally did, I felt extreme gratitude for 
those who determined that veterans are deserving of these 
benefits. I feel the same gratitude now for this subcommittee 
as it continues to expand opportunities for veterans and their 
families.
    Keeping in line with the theme of education, the American 
Legion would like to express its support for two bills that 
will greatly improve education and training outcomes for 
veterans. The first bill that we would like to address is the 
Warriors to Workforce Act. The Warriors to Workforce Act, a 
bill that the American Legion fully supports, aims to increase 
the monthly housing allowance for veterans from 80 percent to 
90 percent of the standard rate.
    This adjustment is designed to support veterans continued 
participation in apprenticeship and on-the-job training 
programs, and to reduce dropout rates that often occur when 
their housing allowance decreases after the program's first 6 
months. If passed, this bill will be a significant step toward 
ensuring that veterans have the necessary support to transition 
into the civilian workforce. We firmly believe that no veteran 
should be forced to discontinue their education due to housing 
costs.
    The American Legion commends Chairman Van Orden for his 
leadership in the efforts of the subcommittee to improve 
education and training outcomes for veterans. The second bill 
that the American Legion strongly supports is H.R. 7543, the 
Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024. From safeguarding 
our borders and capitals, to providing pandemic aid, and 
supporting local law enforcement, National Guard and Reserve 
service members have been increasingly called upon to face 
unique challenges.
    They often make significant sacrifices, leaving their 
families and civilian employers for extended periods of time, 
sometimes even accepting substantial pay cuts. Yet despite all 
we ask of them, they often are denied fundamental benefits of 
their service, particularly the GI Bill.
    The American Legion believes that every day in uniform 
counts. National Guard and Reserve service members who serve 
alongside their active-duty counterparts deserve GI Bill 
parity. The American Legion would like to thank Ranking Member 
Levin and Takano for their leadership on this front and that of 
the subcommittee for consistently advocating for GI Bill 
parity.
    Finally, the American Legion would like to express its 
support for legislation not related to education, and that is 
the VA Housing Loan Forever Act. Specifically, the American 
Legion supports transferring housing loan benefits to spouses 
and biological or legally adopted children. There is no option 
for service members and veterans to transfer VA home loan 
benefits to their spouse or child.
    By enabling and supporting the families of our service 
members and veterans, we are supporting the military community 
as a whole. We thank Congressman Clyburn and his staff for 
their commitment to service members, veterans, and their 
families.
    In closing, the American Legion would like to thank 
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished 
members of this subcommittee for allowing us to be here today, 
and I welcome any questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kevin O'Neil Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. O'Neil. Mr. O'Neil's written 
testimony will be entered into the hearing record. My fellow 
legionnaire. Ms. Kreutziger Powell, you are now recognized for 
5 minutes to deliver your testimony.

              STATEMENT OF KAREN KREUTZIGER POWELL

    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member 
Levin, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today on behalf of the MBA. My name is 
Karen Kreutziger Powell. I serve as the chief executive officer 
at Flat Branch Home Loans, an independent residential mortgage 
lender headquartered in Missouri and licensed in 38 states. I 
have extensive experience originating, securitizing, and 
servicing VA Home Loan program mortgages and am honored to 
appear before this panel.
    MBA appreciates the focus of today's hearing on proposed 
legislation aimed at authorizing a permanent partial claim 
program.
    This program is designed to give our Nation's heroes loss 
mitigation options comparable to those in other Federal housing 
programs. The VA Home Loan program is a significant benefit 
earned by our veterans through their sacrifice and service. MBA 
recognizes the need to make this program more accessible, 
operationally efficient, flexible, and competitive.
    This is particularly crucial during times of individual 
crisis for veterans and their families, and it is important 
this benefit is not diminished. That is why I want to emphasize 
MBA's strong concern that the VA funding fee should not be used 
for expenses unrelated to the Home Loan program.
    MBA has worked closely with committee staff on the topic of 
partial claims, and we are pleased to offer recommendations 
aimed at improving the proposed legislation. The VA may require 
additional resources from Congress to implement these suggested 
program improvements.
    MBA welcomes legislation that authorizes a permanent 
partial claim for the VA Home Loan program. A partial claim is 
a standard, simple, and time-tested foreclosure prevention 
solution available to borrowers in other Federal housing 
programs, but one that is missing from the VA's loss mitigation 
toolkit. It allows a borrower who has resolved a financial 
hardship to move missed payments to the back of the loan 
without interest following a period of forbearance.
    This helps borrowers get back on track with regular 
mortgage payments or pursue a modification for a more 
affordable payment. Despite the introduction of the VA's newest 
loss mitigation program, known as VASP, MBA believes veteran 
homeowners facing temporary financial hardship deserve access 
to partial claims to reinstate their loans and remain in their 
homes.
    Access to both of these solutions will provide struggling 
borrowers with a more durable set of loss mitigation options to 
preserve affordable homeownership. We are, however, concerned 
that certain provisions of the current bill text, such as the 
repayment plan, could adversely affect veteran homeowners, 
mortgage servicers, and the VA. As drafted, this legislation 
adds hurdles that may negatively impact borrower benefits. 
These changes might be motivated by a desire to generate 
revenue through interest income, but VA will recoup the initial 
outlay most of the time as a partial claim requires repayment 
at payoff, refinance, or maturity of the first lien mortgage.
    No other government program requires repayment with 
interest, and we urge amendments to the bill to achieve parity 
with other Federal housing programs.
    MBA appreciates your consideration of these 
recommendations. Our association and its members will continue 
to work with the agency, this committee, and other key 
stakeholders to ensure veterans and their families have access 
to more affordable, sustainable home ownership opportunities.
    The final topic I want to highlight today concerns the 
settlement agreement of the National Association of Realtors to 
resolve various class action lawsuits alleging antitrust 
violations. If approved, changes could impact decisions by 
sellers to cover buyer-agent commission fees. VA's regulations 
prohibit veterans from paying fees or commissions to real 
estate agents in relation to a VA Home Loan program. This 
prohibition puts veteran borrowers at a severe disadvantage as 
they are prohibited from compensating real estate agents who 
guide them through the home buying process.
    MBA is pleased that the VA has taken temporary measures to 
address the problem. We urge the VA to permanently amend its 
regulations. Once again, MBA appreciates the opportunity to 
comment on the issues impacting the VA Home Loan program and 
the specific legislation before the subcommittee, today. We 
value partnering with Congress and the VA to help veterans 
utilize their earned benefit to achieve home ownership.
    MBA looks forward to continuing to work with the 
subcommittee to forge practical solutions and provide the VA 
with the necessary resources to implement changes and improve 
the Home Loan program.
    I look forward to answering any questions you may have on 
this or any of the proposed legislation.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Karen Kreutziger Powell Appears 
In The Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you. The written statement of Ms. 
Kreutziger Powell will be entered into the hearing record. Mr. 
Barefield, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your 
testimony.

                 STATEMENT OF MARQUIS BAREFIELD

    Mr. Barefield. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for 
inviting DAV to testify at today's hearing of the Subcommittee 
on Economic Opportunity to consider the legislation for 
discussion this afternoon. We have provided our written 
statement for all of the bills under consideration today, and 
we are pleased to provide our views on a few of the bills 
impacting DAV members, their families, and survivors.
    Mr. Chairman, at the beginning of the Fiscal Year 2024, 
there were as many as 41,000 veterans homeless in the United 
States. According to the VA, a key priority is to place 
veterans experiencing homelessness into permanent housing. They 
will accomplish this by using HUD rental assistance vouchers 
for privately owned housing to assist veterans who are 
experiencing homelessness.
    This collaborative program between VA and HUD combines 
housing vouchers with VA supportive services to help veterans 
who are homeless, and their families find and sustain permanent 
housing. VA case managers may connect these veterans with 
supportive services such as healthcare, mental health 
treatment, and substance use counseling to help them in their 
recovery process and with their ability to maintain housing in 
their community.
    For these reasons, DAV is pleased to support H.R. 8560, the 
End Veteran Homelessness Act. Many veterans have experienced 
post-deployment conditions such as post-traumatic stress 
disorder, traumatic brain injuries, and substance use 
disorders. These conditions from military service often make 
veterans participation in the workforce difficult or impossible 
and can make them more prone to homelessness. We appreciate the 
fact that this legislation would have case managers prioritize 
assistance to vulnerably homeless veterans, especially those 
with service-related conditions.
    We urge Congress, excuse me, to authorize the HUD VASH 
vouchers and require the VA to provide effective case 
management necessary for homeless veterans to stay housed. 
Another bill DAV fully supports is H.R. 7543, the Guard and 
Reserve GI Bill Parity Act.
    Currently, for guard and reserve members to be eligible for 
post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, they must have served at least 90 
aggregate days on active duty after September 10, 2001, or 
served 30 continuous days on active duty after September 10, 
2001, and were honorably discharged for a service-connected 
disability. With the passage of this with the passage of this 
legislation, National Guard and Reserve members will be 
eligible to earn post-9/11 GI Bill education benefits for every 
day spent in service to this country.
    This legislation would address the inequity between all 
duty statuses. We encourage Congress to remove barriers to 
continued education and ensure full access and use of these 
earned benefits.
    Mr. Chairman, DAV is pleased to support your bill, H.R. 
7920, the Agriculture Grants for Veterans Education and 
Training Services Act, or the AG Vets Act. For individuals who 
would like to pursue an opportunity to work in agricultural 
fields, this grant program would go a long way in helping them 
achieve the goal. Agriculture is a broad and diverse industry 
that offers a wide range of jobs and opportunities.
    There are many jobs in the agriculture that are in high 
demand, including supportive positions like truck drivers, 
construction workers, engineers, and mechanics. According to 
the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, the agriculture industry 
employed over 876,000 people in 2021, and overall employment of 
agricultural workers is projected not to change from 2021 to 
2031. These grants are intended to support the establishment 
and enhancement of farming and ranching opportunities for 
veterans, as well as to be used for training, education, 
curriculum development, and other activities that increase 
veterans participation in agriculture.
    Finally, Mr. Chairman DAV also supports the following 
bills, H.R. 7896, the Vets Opportunity Act, H.R. 8514, to amend 
Title 38, United States Code, to provide for an annual increase 
in stipend for book supplies, equipment, and other educational 
costs under post-9/11 education assistance programs of the 
Department of Veterans Affairs; H.R. 8592; H.R. 8627; H.R. 
8646; and, finally, H.R. 8661.
    This concludes my testimony, and I welcome any questions 
that you or members of the subcommittee make.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Marquis Barefield Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Barefield. I, too, am a 
member of the Disabled Veterans of America, DAV, thank you very 
much. The written statement of Mr. Barefield will be entered 
into the hearing record. Mr. Brookshire, you are now recognized 
for 5 minutes to deliver your testimony.

                STATEMENT OF RICHARD BROOKSHIRE

    Mr. Brookshire. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, and members of the subcommittee, on behalf of 
Black Veterans Project, thank you for the opportunity to share 
our views on H.R. 8607, the VA Housing Loan Forever Act. Black 
Veterans Project is a nonpartisan 501(c)(3) nonprofit that 
advances research, litigation and narrative storytelling to 
actualize racial equity and reparative justice in and out of 
uniform. Core to our mission is making reparations for 
descendants of Black World War II veterans and their families 
real in our lifetime.
    June 22 marks 80 years since the GI Bill was initially 
crafted and passed into law in 1944. This past week we 
venerated the heroic actions of American troops on the shores 
of Normandy. Today, we must remember an uncomfortable truth, 
that the horrors of Jim Crow segregation were reinforced by our 
government's administration of the GI Bill's housing and 
education benefits programs meant to honor the contributions of 
the greatest generation.
    The sacrifices of over 1 million Black GIs were met with 
redlining, with racial covenants, discriminatory practices in 
banking and collegiate admissions, and broader divestments 
tantamount to economic lynching. Collectively, these policies 
coalesced to ensure diminutive numbers of Black veterans and 
military families could access nor utilize their VA home loans. 
VA Home Loan programs set millions of White veterans and their 
families on a path to home ownership and to the accumulation of 
generational wealth, bolstering and transforming the American 
middle class.
    The opportunity to right this particular historical wrong 
is overdue, and the time to act has come. Black Veterans 
Project unequivocally supports H.R. 8607, VA's Housing Loan 
Forever Act, and its aim to amend Title 38 of the United States 
Code to make certain legatees of certain veterans eligible for 
housing loans guaranteed by the Secretary of Veteran Affairs 
and for other purposes.
    A 2021 Brandeis University study found that Black veterans 
of World War II were obstructed from accessing the GI Bill and 
were denied approximately $80,000 in wealth of generating 
benefits between 1945 and 1956, worth nearly $70 billion today. 
We encourage further exploration of how H.R. 8607 can become 
law to redress that harm while maintaining a provision for 
utilization by multiple descendants. A preliminary analysis by 
the Center for Responsible Lending in 2022 showed that 
expanding the VA housing loan pool would be revenue generating, 
boost the housing market, and have a net positive impact on 
reducing housing insecurity for military families.
    We implore removing any undue burdens on military families 
seeking redress by placing minimal barriers to accessibility in 
the bill's final form. This bill must extend good faith to 
descendants who meet credit income standards and to qualify for 
access to the VA housing loan program. Last, I would be remiss 
not to address how continued discrimination in lending persists 
today, evidenced by the Cable Network News, Inc. (CNN) 
investigation into the practices of Navy Federal Credit Union 
and its home loan program late last year, whereby more than 
half of its Black applicants were denied access to home loans.
    Greater oversight and accountability are needed to ensure 
that all financial institutions participating in the Department 
of Veteran Affairs VA Home Loan program provide equitable 
access and are held accountable for patterns of discrimination 
in lending. Audits of major lenders participating in VA Home 
Loan programs and penalties for bad actors must be implemented 
if we want to avoid repeating the sins of our past. Ensuring 
all veterans and military families have equitable access to 
sustainable upward mobility is the responsibility of all 
Americans, but particularly this subcommittee.
    Black Veterans Project appreciates the opportunity to 
express our views, and we look forward to working closely with 
you and all the staff members as this measure advances. Thank 
you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Richard Brookshire Appears In 
The Appendix]

    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Brookshire. Mr. Brookshire's 
testimony will be entered into the hearing record. In 
accordance with the committee rule 5-Echo, I ask unanimous 
consent that Representative Davis from North Carolina be 
permitted to participate in today's subcommittee hearing. 
Hearing no objection, we will proceed.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. O'Neil, thank you 
so much for your kind words. Earlier this year, as you 
mentioned, we reintroduced the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity 
Act. It is a very important bill to me. The GI Bill has allowed 
millions of veterans to pursue a higher education and find 
rewarding career paths. Service members consistently cite GI 
Bill benefits as one of the top reasons they choose to serve in 
our armed forces, given the opportunities those benefits 
provide for them and their families. However, our Guard and 
Reserve members only accrue benefits in very limited 
circumstances. My bill would expand eligibility for the post-9/
11 GI Bill to count every day that a service member is paid and 
in uniform toward benefit eligibility in order to achieve 
parity for National Guard and Reserve members. Mr. O'Neil, how 
would this impact your membership?
    Mr. O'Neil. Thank you for the question. I think it would 
greatly impact our membership. This is something we have been 
focusing on for years. We have a resolution in place that 
supports GI Bill parity. Our 1.6 million members agree that 
this is something that should happen. Like I said, I think this 
would greatly impact membership in a positive way.
    Mr. Levin. Terrific. I agree with you, and I think all 
service members, no matter whether they serve in the active or 
reserve components, deserve benefits for doing their jobs and 
risking their lives. I look forward to working with the 
Chairman to get this bill across the finish line, this 
Congress, at least, I hope.
    Mr. Brookshire, I will turn to you. Thank you for your 
testimony as well. The Home Loan Guarantee program is one of 
the best known and most widely used veterans benefits. Mr. 
Brookshire, in your testimony, you referenced the impact of 
redlining. For the benefit of our committee, can you further 
explain how a veteran was unable to use their home loan benefit 
due to redlining?
    Mr. Brookshire. Veterans were no, Black veterans were not 
unable to use their home loans with respect to redlining, in 
part because policies were put in place by the FHA that 
essentially made it very difficult to get their homes insured 
in particular areas, and it made it nearly impossible to 
receive home loans from banks because of it. That essentially 
was a policy that disabled many, many Black families from being 
able to access the benefit.
    Mr. Levin. Got it. It had the same effect. Just slightly 
different. Can you explain how the VA Housing Loan Forever Act 
will attempt to address racial inequities faced by veterans 
from marginalized groups in accessing their earned GI Bill Home 
Loan benefits?
    Mr. Brookshire. This would enable families and descendants, 
spouses, to be able to utilize a benefit that was earned and 
had not been utilized. It would give them access to the VA Home 
Loan benefits. A pretty standard, straightforward.
    Mr. Levin. Very good. Anything else that you want to 
mention about this issue?
    Mr. Brookshire. Yes, I would like to say that, you know, 
obviously this bill would be very important to Black vets, but 
I think it would affect all veterans. Only 4.3 million 
returning GIs use the benefit. There were almost 16 million 
folks who served. This would benefit Hispanic vets, this would 
benefit White vets, who were not able to use the loan for 
whatever reason. Obviously, this is very important to Black 
veterans as well.
    Mr. Levin. Very much appreciate your comments. Thank you 
all for your testimony and look forward to working with you all 
to get these bills across the finish line.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin. I now 
recognize Ms. Ramirez for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman. I have already told Rep. 
Davis that he might get a treat. Well, no, just kidding. Thank 
you again, Chairman. Just really grateful for your work and 
Ranking Member Levin's work here, particularly as we are 
talking about an issue that is so important to me, and that is 
ending homelessness. Folks, as we know, our veterans continue 
to be at risk and currently are experiencing homelessness. That 
is why this hearing is so important and making sure that we are 
providing every possible VA resource to our at-risk veterans is 
crucial. Doing the work that I have done addressing issues of 
homelessness, I know that it costs three, four times more to be 
able to help someone once they are experiencing homelessness 
than it is to prevent it.
    Mr. Barefield, can you tell me how the End Veteran Homeless 
Act will enable case managers, the folks that are providing 
those support services, to help homeless veterans with 
wraparound services like healthcare, like mental health 
treatment, and substance use disorder compensating?
    Mr. Barefield. Thank you for the question. Those case 
managers would be able to intervene with homeless veterans who 
need those services that you just mentioned, healthcare, mental 
health services, and substance use disorder. Some homeless 
veterans have those ailments or have that need for healthcare, 
and they do not have a way to connect with VA medical centers 
or the Community-Based Outpatient Clinics (CBOC) in their area. 
Those case managers would prove to be very important by 
connecting them with VA services that they can use and get 
connected with to help get them out of the situations that they 
are in.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you so much, Mr. Barefield. Obviously, 
as we think about it, housing is a need, but there are other 
needs as well. Sometimes homelessness is a symptom of other 
issues. I absolutely believe and have actually supervised many 
case managers that do wraparound services. I absolutely agree 
with you. I want to talk to you about homeless women veterans. 
Particularly this legislation, how do you see, Mr. Barefield, 
it assisting women veterans that may have a child or children 
also in need of assistance?
    Mr. Barefield. Thank you for that question as well. Women 
veterans, especially those with children that may find 
themselves being homeless, would definitely benefit from case 
managers being able to connect them with not only the HUD 
vouchers that they would need to remove them from the situation 
that they are in, but the wraparound services, again, would 
also be able to provide them with other needs that they would 
have for themselves and for their children.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. I want to turn it over and talk a 
little bit now with Mr. Brookshire. First, just thank you so 
much for being here, and I really appreciated hearing from you 
and your testimony and what it means today to do the work that 
we must do, particularly our reparations for so many of our 
Black veterans who have seen the challenges of disparity and 
continue to see them. We know that veterans of color, 
specifically Black and Latino veterans, are disproportionately 
impacted by unsheltered homelessness. Look, there is no reason 
any veteran, regardless of race, regardless of gender, should 
experience homelessness. I think that we are all clear that we 
must always be aware of how there are still racist policies 
like redlining and segregation that feed into the cycles of 
homelessness and poverty. Mr. Brookshire, can you explain how 
the VA Housing Loan Forever Act would begin to redress veterans 
who did not receive housing benefits during the implementation 
of the GI Bill? You started talking a little bit about in your 
testimony, but I would be interested in hearing more.
    Mr. Brookshire. One, I think it is a matter of restoring 
dignity to military families, Black military families 
specifically, who were denied a benefit for generations. I 
think, second, it would also help to boost home ownership in 
the Black community. There, I believe the Center for 
Responsible Lending did a study in 2022 that showed that I 
think somewhere around 12 million potential descendants are 
descended from World War II veterans. That would obviously be a 
large pool. I think they recommended that the program be shaped 
around first-time homebuyers. Obviously all of those things 
need to be considered in the crafting of the bill as it moves 
forward. For me, it is about, one, restoring dignity. I mean, 
second, acknowledging a historical wrong that occurred when 
this second greatest policy was put in place by this committee, 
and also offering a pathway to home ownership for a community 
that is still facing a lot of challenges.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Mr. Brookshire. I had another 
question, but I will wait, if there is another round. I will 
yield back. Thank you.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Ramirez. The Chair now 
recognizes my great friend, Mr. Davis for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Davis. Well, good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden and 
Ranking Member Levin. It is an honor to appear before you, and 
I must say, a treat. This is a very distinguished subcommittee 
that is taking on awesome and incredible work. I want to 
personally thank you for keeping up the fight for every day, 
every single day, for our Nation's veterans, and especially the 
46,000 veterans in North Carolina's First congressional 
District, which more than 15,000 were or are currently enrolled 
in an educational program. H.R. 8627, the Student Veteran Debt 
Relief Act of 2024, will allow veterans who have decided to 
continue their education after serving our country to remain 
enrolled in education programs at educational institutions 
across the country while they respond to a student loan 
overpayment.
    Our veterans should never have to worry about their 
educational future if a review determines they received a 
student loan overpayment due to a fault that has nothing to do 
with them. The Student Veteran Debt Relief Act will ensure that 
our Nation's veterans take responsibility in paying back 
student loan overpayments without compromising their financial 
well-being or their education. No veteran should have to worry 
about their degree or certificate that they are going to be 
delayed because of a student loan overdue payment. We must 
ensure morale remains high. Thank you for this opportunity.
    I would like to direct my question today to Mr. Barefield. 
My question is, how might the Student Veteran Debt Relief Act 
help to collect loan overpayments in a timely fashion while 
preventing veterans from facing the hardship of disenrollment 
from their educational institution?
    Mr. Barefield. Thank you for the question, Mr. Davis. This 
legislation, one, would squarely put the responsibility on the 
VA for creating a debt that the veteran had no intended or no 
intentions of, or no way of knowing about. The VA puts the 
responsibility on the veteran to make sure that they know 
classes are being paid for, that enrollment has been taken care 
of. A lot of this, this bill would relieve a lot of that 
pressure off of the veteran to make sure that they know that 
something that they did not create, or cause will not be a 
burden on them from completing their education.
    Mr. Davis. Again, I believe we need to continue to do 
everything we can to help our veterans along the way. This is 
legislation that we have enormous interest in. I urge support. 
I want to thank the opportunity to come before the subcommittee 
today. I would always thank all of our veterans who continue to 
fight for other veterans across the Nation. Thank you so much, 
and I appreciate you, my friend, and the Chair and the ranking 
member.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Van Orden. Mr. Davis, thank you. In fact, Ms. Ramirez 
was being truthful. This is some fantastic Vern's, Wisconsin 
beer cheddar, and it is for you. Tell your friends they want to 
come to the subcommittee. There is absolutely treats awaiting 
for you.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes. Mr. O'Neil, I am 
alive today because there was 50 Pennsylvania National Guard 
dudes helping protect me and the person that became the first 
democratically elected Prime Minister of Iraq. His name is 
Ibrahim al-Jaafari. I had those cats, and they were our second 
ring of security. The last three service members that were 
killed in action were killed in Jordan. They were reservists. 
What they did not really widely publish is that there was a 
tremendous amount of National Guardsmen that were injured 
during that same attack. The enemy does not care if you are a 
Reservist. They do not care if you are a National Guardsman. 
They are not aiming at your title; they are aiming at the 
American flag on your shoulder. We would be wise to remember 
that collectively as a Nation. This is a thing that this 
particular issue that you have very broad bipartisan support, 
and we will continue to work for parity. We got to get down to 
the brass tacks, nuts and bolts, to figure out how to do it 
properly. Again, I do not care if you are a Reservist. I do not 
care if you are a National Guardsman. I want to make sure that 
the benefits that you have earned through your service are 
granted to you at the commiserate level.
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell, how many people would you have on 
your staff to service 40,000 to 60,000 home loans?
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. Currently for us, we have about a $7 
billion portfolio, which is about 40,000 units, and it is 
between 40 and 45 employees to service that portfolio.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. That is in the tune of about $16 
billion?
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. For us, it is $7 billion. We have 
really low loan amounts.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay.
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. When you are servicing units matter, 
and so 40,000 loans is what we service.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. What is the level of subject matter 
expertise with your people that are servicing these loans?
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. There is multiple departments and 
extreme levels of expertise, specifically in the loss 
mitigation field.
    Mr. Van Orden. How long does it normally take someone to 
gain the commiserate amount of expertise to make sure that they 
can run these books at a low-level of failure?
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. There is multiple layers, but if you 
are truly running the department, I would say several, several 
years of experience.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. It is not a pickup game. Right? You do 
not just like roll in on Monday and then on Tuesday, you are 
servicing loans----
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. No.
    Mr. Van Orden.--to the tune of $16 billion and 60,000 
loans.
    Ms. Kreutziger Powell. No, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. The problem is, we have some people 
that do not quite understand that, and I think that they are 
treading into waters and they do not know what they are doing. 
That is an issue.
    Mr. Brookshire, my colleague, Mr. Clyburn, came to my 
office a little while ago and brought up this issue to me. He 
did that because both of my parents were Freedom Riders in the 
sixties. They left for Mankato State. They went down to 
register African Americans to vote. This is part of my family's 
DNA, trying to rectify these things and making sure that we are 
not discriminated against people due to immutable 
characteristics, such as race, sex, and all that stuff.
    I have some questions, because, again, we got to nail this.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. You know what I mean? How many potential 
folks are you talking about that would be eligible for this 
program?
    Mr. Brookshire. I do not know the answer to that question. 
I think that is part of the reason that we have presented the 
bill now is so that we can start to get answers and get a 
Congressional Budget Office (CBO) score.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. What if the person who was given 
access to a Veterans Home Loan Guarantee wants to purchase an 
additional home?
    Mr. Brookshire. Again, I would not know the answer to that 
question because the bill is still in draft form.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay, so here is the VA--and this is going 
to sound crazy. I see Mr. Rodriguez over there. He is probably 
going to have a heart attack. I agree with them in their 
assessment of a lot of stuff. I mean, that is going to--you 
want to write that one down, Mike?
    What my concerns are is that we do need to have things 
definable. What is definable is, and it is irrefutable, is that 
many Black Americans during that period of time in our history 
were discriminated against because of an immutable 
characteristic. No one is arguing that at all. That happened. 
That is real. If we can rectify something, we should. My 
concern is that until we are able to clearly define numbers, we 
cannot understand the cost and we cannot understand how to 
appropriately apply this. For instance, the way that this is 
currently written, it is not compatible with how an active-duty 
service member's eligibility for VA Home Loan Guarantee is.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. Like, I can use it, but I cannot transfer 
it.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. My educational benefits I can transfer to my 
wife and to a child. I cannot give it to my grandchild or a 
cousin or any living descendant.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. I would like these things, these programs, 
if we could have some type of standardization across the board.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. If we use an existing model like the GI 
Bill, which I think would be prudent, then a significant 
portion of the people that are potentially identified in this 
bill as written would no longer be eligible for it. I have had 
these discussions with Mr. Clyburn and I am going to continue 
to work with him to get this down to something that we can 
truly quantify.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. Here is how I have decided to legislate. If 
it makes sense, we are going to do it.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. If it does not make sense, we are going to 
ask questions. Right now, it does not make sense. That is why I 
am asking questions. I will speak to my colleague, Mr. Clyburn, 
again. Then if we can get to yes with those answers, then we do 
it. I do not care what the CBO score is. I do not care what 
your political party affiliation is. I do not care. If it makes 
sense, it makes sense. If we have the opportunity from the 
subcommittee to help rectify historic wrong, that is what we 
are going to do.
    Mr. Brookshire. Mm-hmm.
    Mr. Van Orden. I want you to stay in very close contact 
with our teams and let us see if we can get to yes.
    Mr. Brookshire. Okay.
    Mr. Van Orden. Is that cool?
    Mr. Brookshire. Yep.
    Mr. Van Orden. All right. Okay. Well, with that said, they 
are going to call votes here shortly.
    Ms. Ramirez. I will submit my questions.
    Mr. Van Orden. Are you sure, Ms. Ramirez.
    Ms. Ramirez will submit her questions, her follow-on 
question, for the record. I want to thank you, everyone. I am 
going to recognize Ranking Member Levin, for any concluding 
remarks you might have.
    Mr. Levin. I just want to thank the Chairman for his 
cooperation in so many of these important bills and thank our 
witnesses for all their hard work. Hopefully we get a lot done 
in the next few months here.
    Mr. Van Orden. Hopefully. I want to thank you guys for 
coming and for your participation in today's hearing. I have 
received a number of statements for the record. I have read 
them all. I make a habit of doing that before we sit down here 
and talk. I ask unanimous consent that all members may have 5 
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include 
extraneous material. Without objection, so ordered. This 
hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:31 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]     
      
    
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

=======================================================================


                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                    Prepared Statement of John Bell
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                 Prepared Statement of Jan Del Signore
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                   Prepared Statement of Kevin O'Neil
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

             Prepared Statement of Karen Kreutziger Powell

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify today on behalf 
of the Mortgage Bankers Association (``MBA'').\1\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ The Mortgage Bankers Association (MBA) is the national 
association representing the real estate finance industry, an industry 
that employs more than 275,000 people in virtually every community in 
the country. Headquartered in Washington, DC, the association works to 
ensure the continued strength of the Nation's residential and 
commercial real estate markets, to expand homeownership, and to extend 
access to affordable housing to all Americans. MBA promotes fair and 
ethical lending practices and fosters professional excellence among 
real estate finance employees through a wide range of educational 
programs and a variety of publications. Its membership of more than 
2,000 companies includes all elements of real estate finance: 
independent mortgage banks, mortgage brokers, commercial banks, 
thrifts, REITs, Wall Street conduits, life insurance companies, credit 
unions, and others in the mortgage lending field. For additional 
information, visit MBA's website: www.mba.org.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    My name is Karen Kreutziger Powell, and I am the Chief Executive 
Officer at Flat Branch Home Loans, an independent residential mortgage 
lender licensed in thirty-six states. I am appearing today in my 
capacity as a member of MBA's Residential Board of Governors - and as a 
former Co-Chair of MBA's Independent Mortgage Banker (IMB) Executive 
Council.
    As a lender with deep personal experience originating, 
securitizing, and servicing Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) Home 
Loan Program mortgages, I am honored to appear today before this panel.
    Specifically, MBA appreciates the focus of today's hearing on 
proposed legislation that would improve the available suite of VA Home 
Loan benefits by authorizing a permanent partial claim program - one 
designed to give our Nation's heroes a set of loss mitigation options 
comparable to those offered through other Federal housing programs.
    I am also prepared to comment on proposed legislation designed to 
expand access to the VA Home Loan program to include legatees of 
Veterans who never used their housing benefit, and I am happy to 
continue to elaborate on MBA's strongly held belief that the VA funding 
fee should not be used to as a budgetary offset for expenses unrelated 
to the Home Loan program.
    In recent weeks, MBA has enjoyed the opportunity to work closely 
with House Veterans' Affairs Committee staff on the topic of partial 
claims. The industry is grateful for the progress made during those 
discussions. Accordingly, I am pleased to offer recommendations aimed 
at improving the proposed legislation. It is important to note the VA 
may require additional resources from Congress to implement some of 
these suggested program improvements and changes.
    As noted in appearances by prior MBA witnesses before this panel, I 
want to underscore that our industry, including the many individual MBA 
member firms who originate and service VA loans, continues to have a 
positive and productive working relationship with the agency.
    The VA Home Loan Program is one of the most significant benefits 
our Nation's heroes earn through their sacrifice and service. MBA 
recognizes the need to help make this important program more 
accessible, operationally efficient, flexible, and competitive against 
other loan options. This is particularly important during times of 
individual crisis for Veterans and their families - in keeping with the 
topics and challenges being discussed here today.
    We understand this work will involve reaching a bipartisan 
consensus with the members of this Subcommittee (and full Committee), 
the full House, your Senate counterparts, the agency itself, and all 
other key market participants and advocates. MBA looks forward to 
playing a constructive role as part of this ongoing dialog.

The VA Home Loan Reform Act (H.R. 8647)

    As noted, MBA welcomes legislation that authorizes a permanent 
partial claim for the VA Home Loan Program. A partial claim is a 
standard, simple, and time-tested foreclosure prevention solution 
available to borrowers in other Federal housing programs but is sorely 
missing from the VA's loss mitigation toolkit.\2\ A partial claim 
allows a borrower who has resolved a financial hardship to move their 
missed payments to the back of the loan following a period of 
forbearance. Through a partial claim, borrowers can get back on track 
with their regular monthly mortgage payments or pursue a modification 
to achieve a more affordable payment.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ The COVID-19 Veterans Assistance Partial Claim (VAPCP) was 
discontinued in October 2022. The VAPCPC was modeled after the Federal 
Housing Administration's (FHA) and Rural Housing Service's (RHS) 
partial claim, as well as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's Payment 
Deferral.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Despite the recent introduction of the VA's newest loss mitigation 
program that attempts to combat today's high interest rate environment, 
the Veterans Affairs Servicing Purchase (VASP) program, MBA believes 
Veteran homeowners facing a short-term, temporary financial hardship 
deserve access to this vital tool to reinstate their loan and remain in 
their homes.\3\ It seems contradictory that the reward of their 
sacrifice and service is access to a loan program that offers less of a 
safety net than other broadly available government loan programs. 
Access to both solutions will provide Veteran homeowners with a more 
durable set of loss mitigation options to preserve affordable 
homeownership in times of financial stress.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ The Veterans Affairs Servicing Purchase Program allows the 
servicer to modify qualifying borrowers to 2.5 percent over 30 or 40 
years after the loan is purchased by the VA.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    While MBA appreciates the legislation's recognition of the need for 
a partial claim, we are concerned that certain provisions of the bill, 
namely the repayment plan, will adversely affect Veteran homeowners, 
mortgage servicers, and the VA. As drafted, H.R. 8647 adds certain 
hurdles that may negatively impact the borrower benefits of a partial 
claim. These changes may be motivated by a desire to generate revenue 
from a partial claim through interest income, but VA will recoup the 
initial outlay the vast majority of the time as a partial claim 
requires a borrower to repay their arrearage at payoff, refinance, or 
maturity of the underlying first lien mortgage.\4\ No other government 
program requires a repayment of the partial claim with interest and we 
urge amendments to the bill to achieve parity with other Federal 
housing programs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ The average life of a mortgage loan is under 7 years, which 
will fluctuate with market interest rates.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    To do so, the bill should remove Section 3(c), which requires a 
borrower to agree to enter a monthly repayment within 1 year of 
receiving the partial claim funds or face potential interest (0.5 
percent) for failing to do so. While the terms of repayment are 
undefined, such a provision is not in the best interest of the Veteran 
borrower and creates unnecessary risk. By definition, a repayment plan 
does not help borrowers return to the same, if not better, financial 
position than before their financial hardship.\5\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ An interest penalty - while nominal--also creates the risk of 
negative amortization creating a greater financial burden to the 
Veteran than underlying delinquency itself.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Additionally, creating a repayment plan raises complications around 
how to treat the (otherwise performing) first lien mortgage if the 
borrower is delinquent on the repayment plan. The VA would also need to 
pay for and manage a complex payment processing operation to collect 
the interest paid on the partial claims, which could cut into the 
revenue generated under this approach. To address these issues, we 
suggest defining a partial claim as a subordinate, non-interest-bearing 
junior lien that does not require repayment during the mortgage term, 
similar to the FHA program's partial claim or the GSE payment deferral.
    Second, Section 3 should specify that a partial claim is not a 
claim against the guaranty. The loan guaranty is a fundamental 
statutory protection against the risk of default a lender receives at 
loan termination. Currently, H.R. 8647 defines a partial claim as a 
purchase of a portion of the indebtedness to resolve a default, 
consistent with VA's existing purchase authority that allows VA to pay 
a claim before loan termination. Paying the guaranty portion before 
termination will adversely affect credit losses for lenders and 
servicers, and because of the impact on Ginnie Mae security pricing, 
would also adversely impact affordable financing for Veterans in the 
future. We recommend that the bill affirmatively state the guaranty 
cannot be used to fund a partial claim and that, instead, it is a 
direct purchase of a portion of the indebtedness.
    MBA appreciates your consideration of the recommendations for 
improvement to the bill outlined here. Our association - and its 
members that originate, service, and securitize VA Home Loan Program 
mortgages - looks forward to continuing to work with the agency, this 
committee, and other key stakeholders on H.R. 8647.

The VA Housing Loan Forever Act of 2023 (H.R. 8607)

    The VA Housing Loan Forever Act of 2023 is a well-intended piece of 
legislation meant to redress the harm that historical discrimination 
inflicted on Veterans of color - including World War II Veterans - 
during a period of time stretching from the 1940's to the 1970's. MBA 
supports the bill's intent, which is to transfer the VA housing benefit 
to the legitimate heirs of those brave service members who were 
wrongfully denied the benefit they earned.
    For this legislation to become a successful policy that best 
supports the families of those Veterans' whose benefits were not 
realized, we recommend several changes be made to the legislation in 
its current form. These changes are offered to address potential 
implementation concerns, as well as mitigate concerns that the bill, as 
drafted, could expose the VA Home Loan program to a considerable threat 
of fraud and abuse without proper safeguards in place.
    As the legislation is currently drafted, VA would be responsible to 
confirm legatee status on an application-level basis, validate and 
authenticate the transfer of the benefit, validate and authenticate 
revocations of the transfer, and maintain a data base of such transfers 
and revocations. MBA fears these new cumulative set of responsibilities 
will prove to be difficult to track and administratively unwieldy for 
the agency.
    Therefore, we are concerned that the requirements needed to verify 
the legatee will lead VA to ultimately delegate this responsibility to 
lenders in a similar fashion to the way the agency currently delegates 
credit underwriting approval. Without an appropriate ``safe harbor'' 
for lenders, this potential responsibility would present a major 
liability risk for participating lenders who make good faith efforts to 
ascertain and validate claimed legatee status - but may not always get 
it right.
    The VA program is unique among Federal programs in that it offers a 
competitively priced ``zero-down'' mortgage. This is an especially 
attractive option in a market where down payment funds remain the 
biggest hurdle for first time home buyers, and VA does not have a cap 
on loan limits for higher-income homebuyers. Taken together, an overly 
broad transfer of benefits will be ripe for abuse and/or invite 
instances of outright fraud, such as forged signatures of a Veteran or 
signatures made under duress, in addition to the anticipated 
difficulties of dealing with an elderly population of potential new 
beneficiaries. MBA is concerned about the burden this would impose on 
the VA--and potentially the lender by delegation--to police these 
anticipated program changes.
    Existing data consistently shows that loans to Veteran borrowers 
perform better than loans to other borrower cohorts when factors like 
FICO score and debt-to-income ratio are taken into account. If the VA 
program is expanded to include a much larger and potentially 
unpredictable non-veteran population, we anticipate the VA program 
would begin performing similarly to, or perhaps even worse, than the 
FHA loan program over time, meaning higher delinquency rates and 
greater claim volume. This, in turn, could lead to higher Funding Fees, 
more aggressive lender credit overlays, or the VA itself tightening the 
program credit requirements. We worry that these potential changes 
would reduce the overall value of the VA loan benefit over time and 
diminish the advantage that it affords Veterans over other loan 
programs.

Other Potential Policy Options

NAR Litigation Settlement Impacts on VA Borrowers

    As you are aware, the National Association of Realtors (NAR) 
entered a proposed settlement agreement, pending court approval, to 
settle numerous class action lawsuits alleging violations of antitrust 
law. If approved, the key changes required by the settlement are 
projected to take effect in August and could impact the decision made 
by some sellers to cover the cost of the buyer agent commission. In 
some instances, sellers may decide to forego covering a buyer's broker 
commission - particularly if buyers are offering to cover the cost 
themselves. Today, the VA prohibits Veterans from paying fees or 
commissions to real estate agents or brokers in relation to a VA home 
loan. Thus, without the ability to potentially match competing purchase 
offers that are willing to cover buyer agent commission, Veteran 
borrowers face a distinct disadvantage.
    MBA is glad that VA has now taken a temporary measure to address 
this prohibition. We urge the VA to permanently amend its regulations 
to allow Veteran borrowers to pay reasonable and customary fees and 
commissions to retain agents that will represent their interests in the 
transaction.

Drafting Table

    As we have noted in prior testimony before this Subcommittee, MBA 
encourages Congress to ensure the VA has the necessary resources to 
implement a permanent public input process for the development of 
transformative policies before they are required to be implemented. 
Similar to FHA, a ``Drafting Table'' for interested stakeholders would 
allow the VA to receive thoughtful comments on the impact of changes to 
a lender and servicer's operations prior to implementation and 
enforcement. Transparency and collaboration in policy development will 
ensure VA's mission is best achieved, will result in a more efficient 
mortgage program, and will improve outcomes for veterans.

VA Funding Fees

    MBA remains concerned about the repeated use of VA home loan 
funding fee increases to pay for non-housing related veterans' 
benefits. As Congress considers several wide-ranging pieces of 
legislation that would expand or alter veteran benefits across a range 
of programs, I want to make clear that MBA opposes legislation that 
increases or extends VA funding fees to offset the costs associated 
with new and/or unrelated expenditures.
    Simply stated, these funding fee increases and extensions 
implemented in recent years (and being considered once again) are not 
in any way correlated with the actual credit risks of Veteran 
homebuyers. If that were the case, the actual funding fee would be a 
fraction of where it currently sits today, meaning that far more 
Veterans would be able to qualify to purchase a home. Instead, it is 
out of reach for many Veterans today. Those who can access the benefit 
today are paying far more, in the midst of a housing affordability 
crisis, to help subsidize other Federal programs.
    These continued increases and extensions of previous increases 
severely threaten the VA home loan program. While any individual 
funding fee increase may be small, the cumulative impact of the many 
hikes and extensions over the past decade is worrisome and significant. 
We recognize that in many instances the funds diverted from the home 
loan program fund worthy and important initiatives, but firmly believe 
that Congress should fund that work separately rather than diminish the 
strength of the home loan program to achieve those ends.
    We urge Congress to work with the Biden Administration to ensure 
that VA funding fees are set at levels commensurate with the risks 
associated with VA-guaranteed home lending. Congress should conduct 
appropriate oversight and analysis of past funding fee increases before 
simply defaulting to the practice of levying further increases or 
extensions.

Conclusion

    Once again, MBA appreciates the opportunity to comment on the many 
critical issues that impact the VA Home Loan Program, including the 
specific legislation before the Subcommittee at this hearing today. We 
value our partnership with Congress and the VA on these subjects - and 
our shared mission to help Veterans utilize their earned benefit to 
achieve homeownership.
    Our association looks forward to continuing to work with this 
Subcommittee - and the full Committee - to forge practical solutions 
including, but not limited to, the legislation to make permanent a VA 
partial claim option to help distressed borrowers. We also look forward 
to working with Congress to help provide the VA with the resources 
necessary to implement changes and improve the delivery of the Home 
Loan Program benefit to our Nation's heroes.
    I look forward to answering any questions you may have.

                                 

                Prepared Statement of Marquis Barefield

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and Members of the 
Subcommittee:
    DAV (Disabled American Veterans) has a mission that includes the 
principle that this Nation's first duty to veterans is the 
rehabilitation and welfare of its wartime disabled. This principle 
envisions vocational rehabilitation and/or education to assist these 
veterans to prepare for and obtain gainful employment, enhanced 
opportunities for employment, job placement and self-employment, so 
that the full array of talents and abilities of disabled veterans are 
used productively and to their greatest levels.
    We are pleased to provide our views on the bills impacting service-
disabled veterans, their families and the programs administered by the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) that are under consideration by the 
Subcommittee.

                H.R. 226, the Veterans Collaboration Act

    The Veterans Collaboration Act would mandate VA to initiate a 2-
year pilot program aimed at fostering cooperation between the VA, 
nonprofit organizations, and institutions of higher learning to provide 
administrative support to veterans.
    The program would focus on collaborating with veterans service 
organizations (VSO) and educational institutions offering pro bono 
legal aid to veterans for filing disability compensation claims. 
Additionally, it would require the Department to establish metrics to 
identify and promote the most effective service providers, target 
states with large veteran populations, and utilize social media for 
promotion and outreach.
    The Secretary would also be required to submit quarterly reports on 
the program's progress and its impact on veterans to the relevant 
congressional committees. DAV has no resolution from our membership on 
this matter, and therefore takes no position on this bill.

      H.R. 7543, the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024

    GI Bill education benefits date back to 1944; serving as a critical 
tool in helping service members transition back into civilian life and 
closing the opportunity gap created by military service with their 
civilian counterparts. Congress has previously attempted to correct GI 
Bill inequities between Active Duty and Reserve Component service 
members.
    H.R. 7543, the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act, would grant 
National Guard and Reservist service members Post-9/11 GI Bill 
eligibility for every day spent in service to this country. 
Specifically, this legislation would ensure that Guard and Reservists 
receive credit for every day they spend in uniform in a Federal duty 
status under titles 10 or 32 for GI Bill purposes. This following 
service would count toward earning the Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits: 
conducting operations, training, attending military schools, conducting 
weekend drills, completion of annual training requirements, or 
responding to national disasters.
    The Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024 would universally 
address this inequity for all duty statuses. DAV fully supports H.R. 
7543, the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act, in accordance with DAV 
Resolution No. 542. We must remove barriers to continued education and 
ensure full access and use of earned benefits.

H.R. 7896, the Veterans Education and Technical Skills Opportunity Act 
                                of 2024

    More and more student veterans are gravitating toward virtual 
educational programs and we need to ensure that they have the same 
access to online learning as their non-veteran counterparts.
    H.R. 7896, the Veterans Education and Technical Skills (VETS) 
Opportunity Act of 2024, or VETS Opportunity Act, would change the 
criteria for the approval of certain independent study programs under 
VA educational assistance programs. Specifically, it would update the 
definition of eligible institutions of higher education in relation to 
student financial assistance programs. By expanding post-9/11 GI Bill 
eligibility to include high-quality, partially online certificate 
programs in areas, such as welding, Computer Numerical Control 
machining, and heating, ventilation, air conditioning and 
refrigeration, this legislation ensures veterans have access to 
opportunities that align with the needs of employers.
    DAV fully supports H.R. 7896, the VETS Opportunity Act, in 
accordance with DAV Resolution No. 542. We support giving student 
veterans more opportunities, through programs like independent study, 
to pursue their educational goals.

   H.R. 7920, Agriculture Grants for Veterans Education and Training 
                              Services Act

    The U.S. agricultural industry not only provides daily necessities, 
but millions of stable, enriching careers. There are many jobs in 
agriculture that are in high demand, including supportive positions 
like truck drivers, construction workers, engineers, and mechanics. 
There are direct agriculture related careers in biotech industries 
developing new and (we hope) better seeds, chemists working to find new 
herbicides and insecticides, soil analysts, as well as marketing 
positions that help bring crops to the supermarket shelves.
    H.R. 7920, the Agriculture Grants (AG) for Veterans Education and 
Training Services (VETS) Act, or AG VETS Act, would establish a program 
where the Secretary of Agriculture will award competitive grants to 
eligible entities, such as cooperative extension services, land-grant 
colleges, non-land-grant colleges of agriculture, Hispanic-serving 
agricultural colleges and universities, State departments of 
agriculture, nonprofit organizations, community-based organizations, or 
combinations thereof.
    These grants are intended to support the establishment and 
enhancement of farming and ranching opportunities for veterans. The 
funds are to be used for training, education, curriculum development, 
workshops, tours, field experiences, or other activities that increase 
veterans' participation in agriculture. Recipients would be required to 
match the grant amount with non-Federal funds. The bill would authorize 
$5 million annually for fiscal years 2025 through 2029 to support this 
initiative.
    DAV fully supports H.R. 7920, the AG VETS Act, in accordance with 
DAV Resolution No. 542. We must ensure that veterans are afforded the 
opportunity to develop proper skills and gain meaningful employment to 
take care of themselves and support their families.

  H.R. 8514, to provide for an annual increase in stipend for books, 
 supplies, equipment, and other educational costs under VA's Post-9/11 
                              Educational

                           Assistance Program

    According to the website educationdata.org, the average cost of 
books and supplies varies widely between programs.

      At public 4-year institutions, students pay an average of 
$1,220 annually for textbooks and supplies.

      Books and supplies at private, non-profit institutions 
average $1,215; at private, for-profit institutions, the average cost 
is $990.

      At public 2-year institutions, students pay an average of 
$1,467 each year for books and supplies.

      At private, nonprofit institutions, books and supplies 
average $930; at private, for-profit 2-year colleges, the average cost 
is $1,501.

    H.R. 8514 would increase the monthly stipend for books and supplies 
from $1,000 to $1,400 and on an annual basis beginning with Fiscal Year 
2025. The increase would be tied to the Consumer Price Index and based 
on the average U.S. city for the 12-month period ending on June 30 
preceding the beginning of the Fiscal Year for which the increase is 
made. The increased percentage amount would be rounded to the nearest 
dollar.
    In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 157, DAV supports H.R. 8514, 
as this legislation would help defray associated costs for service-
disabled veterans and survivors using their educational benefits.

          H.R. 8560, the End Veteran Homelessness Act of 2024

    Many veterans experience post-deployment readjustment issues and 
conditions such as post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic brain 
injuries and substance use disorders. These conditions acquired during 
or worsened by military service often make veterans' participation in 
the workforce difficult or impossible and can make them more prone to 
homelessness.
    VA initiatives to end homelessness among veterans through enhanced 
collaboration with other Federal, State, faith-based, VSO and community 
partners have made significant in-roads in decreasing homelessness 
among our Nation's veterans.
    The End Veteran Homelessness Act would have case managers 
prioritize assistance to vulnerable homeless veterans, including 
veterans who are homeless and have disabilities (including chronic 
mental illness, chronic substance abuse disorders or chronic physical 
disabilities). A homeless veteran or a veteran at risk of being 
homeless who the VA determines does not require case management, may be 
afforded a HUD-VASH voucher if the use is included in the notice of 
operating requirements of the program.
    The bill would authorize payment of administrative fees to the 
public housing agencies for costs of administering vouchers and other 
eligible expenses used to facilitate the leasing of the vouchers, such 
as security deposits and other cost related to retention and support of 
participating owners. It also requires the Government Accounting Office 
(GAO) to complete and submit a report with specific information as it 
pertains to the HUD-VASH program to the appropriate congressional 
committees.
    In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 083, DAV fully supports H.R. 
8560, the End Veteran Homelessness Act. We urge Congress to authorize 
vouchers through the Department of Housing and Urban Development and 
require the VA to provide effective case management, health and 
supportive services necessary for homeless veterans to stay housed.

                H.R. 8592, the Warriors to Workforce Act

    The VA currently pays a veteran up to $1,000 each academic year 
while they are in an apprenticeship or other on-the-job training 
program.
    This draft legislation would increase the amount of educational 
assistance paid by the VA to an eligible individual during the first 
year of a full-time program of apprenticeship or other on-the-job 
training from 80 percent to 90 percent.
    We support this legislation in accordance with DAV Resolution No. 
157. Transitioning service members and veterans benefit from 
apprenticeship programs and we support increasing the amount of the 
educational assistance to 90 percent for full-time program 
participants.

         H.R. 8627, the Student Veteran Debt Relief Act of 2024

    Currently, a veteran is responsible for keeping track of their 
tuition and fee account balance. Veterans are advised to visit their 
school's financial office regularly to review their account, ensure the 
charges are correct and that payments and refunds are processed 
correctly. Veterans are also encouraged to contact their school 
certified official to make sure the certification sent to the VA 
matches their schedule. Currently, the veteran is held responsible if 
an overpayment is created.
    This draft legislation would transfer responsibility for 
overpayment to the VA and no longer hold a veteran, eligible person or 
educational institution at fault. The veteran, eligible person or 
educational institution would have to show that the VA made the error 
in eligibility or that the DoD provided incorrect information to the VA 
about the veteran or the eligible person for educational assistance.
    If the VA determines that the overpayment to the veteran or 
eligible person would likely result in the inability for them to 
continue in their course or program, the VA will determine if the 
liability is eligible for a hardship waiver or try to recover the 
overpayment from the veteran or eligible person.
    If the VA cannot recover the overpayment from the veteran or 
eligible person, the VA would be required to contact the Under 
Secretary for Benefits to attempt to recover the overpayment or 
establish a payment plan with the veteran or eligible person.
    The legislation would ensure that the VA may not recover an 
overpayment unless it is identified and the educational institution has 
been notified of the overpayment. Additionally, not more than 10 years 
can pass before the overpayment can be collected by the Department.
    In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 097, we support this draft 
legislation. DAV supports legislation that requires the VA to waive any 
additional amounts of debt created by its own lack of timely action on 
evidence and information received regarding education changes.

  H.R. 8646, the Modernizing the Veterans On-Campus Experience Act of 
                                  2024

    This draft legislation would expand the use of VetSuccess on Campus 
(VSOC) counselors to more than one institution of higher learning and 
lower the number of people that they are required to provide services 
to from 50 to 25 individuals.
    The VSOC program aims to help veterans, service members, and their 
qualified dependents succeed and thrive through a coordinated delivery 
of on-campus benefits assistance and counseling, leading to completion 
of their education and preparing them to enter the labor market in 
viable careers.
    VSOC counselors are easily accessible on campuses, which helps to 
quickly resolve any problems that could potentially interfere with a 
veteran's educational program, to include assisting with disability 
accommodations. If needed, they can also provide referrals for health 
services through VA Medical Centers, Community-Based Outpatient 
Clinics, or Vet Centers.
    DAV supports this draft legislation in accordance with DAV 
Resolution No. 542. Disabled veterans participating in Veterans 
Readiness and Employment benefit from having VSOCs available to assist 
them with any barriers to their educational goals. This draft bill 
would help ensure that VA is effectively utilizing this important 
resource.

          H.R. 8661, the Reforming Education for Veterans Act

    This draft legislation would allow a student veteran that has 
received orders to go back to active duty to withdraw from a period of 
education, take a leave of absence or enter into an agreement with the 
institution of higher learning concerning the course of education and 
determine if the course has been satisfactorily completed. The 
institution of higher learning may enter into an agreement with a 
student veteran if they have completed at least half of a course of 
covered education.
    This legislation would also require the VA to notify the school 
certifying official (SCO) of any updates to the SCO handbook within 14 
business days of the update.
    In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 157, we support this draft 
bill as it would improve VA's education benefit for service-disabled 
veterans. Specifically, this legislation would protect the student 
veteran from having to retake a course of education if called back to 
active duty.

            Draft bill, the VA Home Loan Program Reform Act

    This draft legislation would allow the VA to perform certain 
actions if a veteran is faced with foreclosure of a VA-backed home 
loan, to include:

      Paying the holder of the loan guaranteed an amount 
necessary to avoid foreclosure of the loan;

      Requiring the holder of the loan and the veteran to 
execute all documents necessary to ensure the VA obtains a secured 
interest in the property covered by the loan;

      Requiring the holder of the loan to take any actions 
necessary to carry out these actions, including preparing, executing, 
transmitting, receiving and recording documents, and requiring the 
holder of the loan to place the loan in forbearance.

    The legislation authorizes VA to carry out a program, to be known 
as the ``Partial Claim Program'' under which the Department may make a 
partial claim if the VA determines that such loan is in default or at 
risk of defaulting. The amount of a partial claim will not exceed 20 
percent of the unpaid principle balance of the guaranteed loan.
    Provisions in the bill also allow the VA to establish guidelines to 
protect its interest in this program and include specific consequences 
for the individual or entity that had the VA-backed loan if default or 
foreclosure occurs while in the program.
    Additionally, any decision made by the VA on a partial claim would 
not be subject to judicial review. Nor would any decision made on a 
partial claim be treated as a decision under the law that affects 
another benefit. The VA may not make a partial claim after September 
30, 2026.
    DAV has no resolution specific to this issue and therefore takes no 
position on this draft legislation.

          Draft bill, the VA Housing Loan Forever Act of 2023

    This draft legislation would allow the transfer of the VA home loan 
benefits of the veteran to one or more legatees of the veteran. The 
veteran would have had to have served during a specific time period and 
not used their home loan benefits during their lifetime.
    The VA home loan benefits of a deceased veteran could be 
transferred to an individual if they apply for the benefits during a 
10-year period and have been determined by the VA to be a legatee of 
the veteran. The term ``legatee'' is defined as: a spouse or surviving 
spouse; a biological or legally adopted child; a grandchild; and any 
other direct descendant.
    Once identified as the legatee of the veteran, that individual 
would be entitled to receive the full housing loan benefits of the 
veteran. The legatee of the veteran could use the benefits immediately 
upon such transfer but could not transfer the housing loan benefits to 
another individual. A veteran may revoke the benefit of transferring 
their housing loan benefits to a legatee by written notice to the VA.
    DAV has no resolution specific to this issue; therefore takes no 
position on this draft legislation.
    Mr. Chairman, this concludes my statement. We appreciate the 
opportunity to provide our views on the legislation before the 
Subcommittee and look forward to addressing questions members may have.

                                 

                Prepared Statement of Richard Brookshire

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the 
Subcommittee, on behalf of Black Veterans Project, thank you for the 
opportunity to share our views on H.R. 8607, the Housing Loan Forever 
Act.
    Black Veterans Project is a nonpartisan 501(c)3 non-profit 
organization that advances research, litigation, and narrative 
storytelling to advance racial equity and reparative justice in and out 
of uniform. Core to our mission is making reparations for descendants 
of Black World War II veterans real in our lifetime.
    June 22nd marks eighty years since the GI Bill was initially 
drafted and passed into law in 1944.
    This past week, we've venerated the heroic actions of American 
troops on the shores of Normandy. Today, we must remember an 
uncomfortable truth--that the horrors of Jim Crow segregation were 
reinforced by how our government chose to administer the GI Bill's 
housing and education benefit programs.
    The sacrifices of over 1 million Black GIs were met with redlining, 
racial covenants, discriminatory practices in banking and collegiate 
admissions and broader divestments tantamount to an economic lynching.
    Collectively, these policies coalesced to ensure diminutive numbers 
of Black veterans and military families could access nor utilize their 
VA home loans. VA's home loan program set millions of white veterans on 
the path to homeownership and the accumulation of generational wealth--
bolstering and transforming the American middle class.
    The opportunity to right this particular historical wrong is 
overdue, and the time to act has come.

H.R. 8607--VA Housing Loan Forever Act

    Black Veterans Project unequivocally supports legislation to amend 
Title 38 of the United States Code to make certain legatees of certain 
veterans eligible for housing loans guaranteed by the Secretary of 
Veterans Affairs and for other purposes.
    A 2021 Brandeis University study alleges that Black World War II 
veterans who were obstructed from accessing the GI Bill were denied 
approximately $80,000 in wealth-generating benefits between 1945 and 
1956. We encourage further exploration of how H.R. 8607 can become law, 
maintaining a provision for utilization by multiple decedents.
    A preliminary analysis by the Center for Responsible Lending in 
2022 showed that expanding the VA housing loan pool would be revenue-
generating, boost the housing market and have a net-positive impact on 
reducing housing insecurity for military families.
    We implore removing any undue burdens on families seeking redress 
by placing minimal barriers to accessibility to this benefit. Rather, 
this bill must extend good faith to those who still must meet credit/
income standards to qualify and access the VA home loan program.
    Last, I would be remiss not to address how continued discrimination 
in lending persists today - evidenced by the CNN investigation into the 
practices of Navy Federal Credit Union and its home loan program late 
last year, whereby more than half of Black applicants were denied 
access to home loans.
    Greater oversight and accountability are needed to ensure that all 
financial institutions participating in the Department of Veterans 
Affairs VA home loan program provide equitable access and are held 
accountable for patterns of discrimination. Audits of major lenders and 
penalties for bad actors must be implemented if we want to avoid 
repeating the sins of our past.
    Ensuring all veterans and military families have equitable access 
to sustainable upward mobility is the responsibility of all of us.
    Black Veterans Project appreciates the opportunity to express our 
views before this Subcommittee and we look forward to working closely 
with the staff members as this measure advances.

                       Statements for the Record

                              ----------                              


           Prepared Statement of National Consumer Law Center

    On behalf of the low-income clients of the National Consumer Law 
Center, thank you to Chairman Van Orden and Ranking Member Levin for 
the opportunity to submit a statement for the record at the June 12 
hearing on: ``Pending Legislation.'' We write to share our response to 
H.R. 8647 VA Home Loan Program Reform Act (hereinafter, ``H.R. 8647'').
    It is a bedrock principle of Federal housing policy that borrowers 
who are facing financial hardship should have access to workout options 
to bring their loans current and avoid foreclosure. These home 
retention policies provide stability for homeowners by giving them a 
path to recovery after financial hardships and provide stability for 
neighborhoods that suffer when foreclosure hits.
    We strongly believe that Veteran borrowers with VA-guaranteed loans 
should have access to foreclosure alternatives that are at least as 
favorable as the options available to other federally backed borrowers. 
This should include giving Veteran borrowers who have overcome a 
temporary hardship access to a simple option that defers past due 
amounts to the end of the loan and allows them to resume making their 
original monthly payments.
    Borrowers with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, FHA-insured, and USDA-
guaranteed loans all have this type of option, and VA-guarantee 
borrowers should have access to one as well. The previous VA partial 
claim program established during the pandemic did provide such an 
option, but VA discontinued the program in October 2022. The current 
deferral program that VA allows is generally not economically viable 
for mortgage servicers of VA-guaranteed loans and, thus, is unused and 
does not fill the gap. And traditional modifications, which are better 
suited to assist borrowers facing ongoing rather than temporary 
hardships, are not effective for most borrowers at the current mortgage 
rate.
    We generally support legislative efforts to clarify that VA has the 
authority to establish a partial claim program, though we believe the 
VA already has this authority. However, VA has not reestablished a 
partial claim program, and we recognize that legislation would be an 
important impetus for getting it in place. We appreciate efforts from 
both parties to address this issue.
    In assessing the various legislative efforts to address the partial 
claim, which includes H.R. 8647 and S. 3728, the Veterans Housing 
Stability Act of 2024 (hereinafter, ``S. 3728''), we prefer S. 3728 for 
a few reasons. First, H.R. 8647 imposes an interest rate on partial 
claims when the borrower chooses not to make monthly payments on the 
partial claim. As stated above, VA borrowers should have at least 
equivalent loss mitigation options as other federally backed borrowers, 
and those other programs do not charge interest. Moreover, the interest 
rate may push some borrowers into a monthly payment plan on their 
partial claim on top of their existing monthly payment, and we know 
that this type of total monthly payment increase also increases the 
likelihood that the borrower redefaults. Additionally, we do not think 
the interest rate imposed would provide substantial revenue for the 
program and, thus, it seems unnecessary.
    Second, H.R. 8647 imposes a statutory cap of 20 percent of the loan 
balance on partial claims. We prefer the 30 percent cap imposed by S. 
3728. We believe it is important for VA to have flexibility in its 
operation of the program. In addition, the 30 percent cap aligns with 
the other federally backed programs.
    Finally, H.R. 8647 does not clarify some of the additional 
authorities VA should have to help borrowers who fall behind that S. 
3728 bill does clarify, including authorities related to forbearance 
and moratorium. We believe the goal of the bill is to clarify VA's 
ability to take these actions and so it is critical to include the 
moratorium and forbearance authorities as S. 3728 does.
    Under either bill, it is our understanding that there will be 
significant challenges in how to fund a partial claim program at the 
VA. We urge VA to work with Veterans, Members of Congress from both 
parties, consumer advocates, and industry participants to discuss how 
to establish the partial claim while also protecting the long-term 
health of the VA Home Loan Guaranty. It is crucial to establish this 
program to help Veterans in need.
    If you have any questions or would like to meet about this 
statement, please contact Steve Sharpe, Senior Attorney at the National 
Consumer Law Center, at [email protected] or Kanav Bhagat, consultant to 
the Center for Responsible Lending, at [email protected].

                                 

            Prepared Statement of Navy Federal Credit Union

    Navy Federal Credit Union is committed to expanding economic 
opportunity and access to credit for our diverse community of members. 
That is why we hired a leading civil rights lawyer and former 
Commissioner of the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, Debo Adegbile of 
WilmerHale, to review our mortgage lending. That external review 
confirmed what we at Navy Federal know to be true - we treat our 
members fairly, regardless of their race or background.
    Mr. Adegbile has now completed his review, and found no race-based 
decision-making in our mortgage underwriting. His analysis showed that 
when all non-public underwriting factors are accounted for - including 
credit score, income verification, debt-to-income ratio, and incomplete 
credit applications - any suggestion of discrimination by the CNN 
article is completely unsupported.
    As the largest home lender to Black Americans by percentage of 
loans successfully made, we continue to work to make home ownership 
accessible to all.
    Navy Federal values each and every one of our members. Black 
members make up one in four of our members, and we rank first among 
large lenders in the percentage of mortgage loans made to Black 
borrowers. We are proud to serve as an industry leader in expanding 
economic opportunity for our 13 million members, and we are committed 
to identifying opportunities to further drive homeownership. Working 
with our internal stakeholders and external partners, we are currently 
examining initiatives to build on our mission of expanding access to 
credit for our diverse community of members and continue our efforts to 
address systemic barriers to homeownership. This is a challenge that 
requires action across the industry, and we are working to make sure we 
do our part.
    These initiatives will include Navy Federal's newly created Office 
of Financial Opportunity, led by Executive Vice President of Real 
Estate Lending Brittani Ivey. These steps are in addition to the many 
programs Navy Federal has in place as part of our continued work to 
help members achieve their financial and home-ownership goals, such as 
free financial counseling and credit-modeling products to help our 13 
million members around the world learn how to build and maintain 
credit, unique support for first-time homebuyers of modest means, 
educational seminars for members, and more.

            Statement from WilmerHale Partner Debo Adegbile

    ``CNN's analysis was incomplete, and the article's suggestion that 
Navy Federal discriminates against its members is unsupported. In fact, 
our review found that when all relevant factors are controlled for, 
which CNN did not do, the difference in approval rates between Black 
and White borrowers falls to less than 1 percent. The remaining 
difference in approval rates is explained by legitimate, non-race 
factors like income verification and incomplete credit applications. 
Navy Federal is exploring opportunities to enhance its mortgage lending 
practices and drive further access to home ownership.''

              Prepared Statement of Housing Policy Council
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
              Prepared Statement of The Military Coalition
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

         Prepared Statement of National Association of Realtors
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

           Prepared Statement of Student Veterans of America
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
            Prepared Statement of Veterans Education Success

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and Members of the 
Subcommittee:

    We thank you for the opportunity to share this statement for the 
record to be considered during this hearing, which includes many 
notable bills addressing topics in higher education and veterans' 
education benefits. Veterans Education Success is a nonprofit 
organization with the mission of advancing higher education success for 
veterans, service members, and military families, and protecting the 
integrity and promise of the GI Bill and other Federal education 
programs.
    In this statement, we address the following legislative proposals: 
the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024, the Student Veteran 
Debt Relief Act of 2024, the GI Bill Book Stipend Act, the Reforming 
Education for Veterans Act, the Modernizing the Veterans On-Campus 
Experience Act of 2024, the Warriors to Workforce Act, and the Veterans 
Education and Technical Skills Opportunity Act of 2024.
    We applaud the Subcommittee's dedication to our Nation's veterans 
and look forward to working closely with the staff members on the 
advancement of many of these important topics for broader 
consideration.

H.R. 7543, the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024

    This bill would expand Post-9/11 Educational Assistance eligibility 
to include National Guard Members performing active duty service. It 
broadens the definition of qualifying service to encompass various 
active and training duties as specified in Titles 10 and 32, and 
applies these provisions retroactively to service since September 11, 
2001. The amendments will take effect 1 year after enactment.
    We are pleased to see Congress address this long-overdue issue 
affecting the eligibility of reserve component members for the Post-9/
11 GI Bill by reintroducing the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity 
Act.\1\ The current law mandates that Guard and Reserve Members must 
have served at least 90 cumulative or 30 continuous days on active duty 
to accrue ``qualifying days,'' creating a disadvantage in accessing 
their deserved GI Bill educational benefits. Despite the obligation for 
reserve component members to ``serve in uniform'' and fulfill duty 
responsibilities for a minimum of 39 non-consecutive days each fiscal 
year, these periods of service do not currently contribute toward Post-
9/11 GI Bill eligibility. We appreciate the Subcommittee's work to 
address this disparity.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Veterans Education Success. Joint U.S. Senate and U.S. House of 
Representatives Veterans Affairs Committee Hearing. ``Statement for the 
Record: Legislative Priorities Submitted to the Senate and House 
Committees on Veterans Affairs 2024,'' (Mar. 13, 2024), https://
vetsedsuccess.org/statement-for-the-record-legislative-priorities-
submitted-to-the-senate-and-house-committees-on-veterans-affairs-2024/.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We also applaud this legislation for applying retroactively, and 
that it would apply to all service performed on or after September 11, 
2001. We appreciate the strong bipartisan support for this legislation, 
and are especially grateful to Chairman Van Orden and Representatives 
Ciscomani and Mrvan of this Subcommittee for their co-sponsorship. We 
look forward to seeing this legislation advance, and we support this 
bill.

H.R.--, the Student Veteran Debt Relief Act of 2024

    This bill would modify the requirements for recovering overpayments 
of educational assistance by VA. Through proposed subparagraph (f)(1), 
GI Bill overpayments would not be considered a liability of the student 
or institution if the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) made an 
error or received incorrect information from the U.S. Department of 
Defense (DOD).
    In addition, proposed subparagraph (f)(2) directs that in instances 
where an overpayment has been made and the Secretary determines in 
consultation with an institution that liability for the overpayment 
would likely result in the student not being able to continue at the 
school, VA would be required to review the liability to determine if it 
is eligible for a potential hardship waiver, and if not, enter into a 
payment plan with the student.
    Pursuant to proposed subsection (g), the Secretary may not recover 
an overpayment under Sec. 3685 unless the overpayment occurs and is 
identified after the enactment of this Act, and the institution is 
notified and the overpayment identified within 10 years of the 
overpayment occurring.
    We cannot support this bill as it is not good for student veterans. 
It undermines the Protect the GI Bill Act, enacted in 2021, which 
ensured that overpayments were the obligation of the institution.
    We have serious concerns about subparagraph f(2) because the 
language of the bill as well as the problem purportedly being resolved 
by the bill are unclear. Of particular concern is that subparagraph 
f(2) appears to authorize the Secretary, acting in concert with the 
school, to shift the school's responsibility for repayment (provided in 
existing 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3685(b)) from the school to the student.
    The bill specifies that the Secretary shall seek repayment from the 
student if, in consultation with the institution, the Secretary 
determines liability for the overpayment would likely result in the 
student not being able to continue in the program. The bill does not 
appear to provide the student the option of still requiring VA to 
recover the overpayment from the school. Rather, the Secretary is 
required to review the liability for a hardship waiver, and if it does 
not apply, enter into a payment plan with the student. In doing so, the 
bill undermines the Protect the GI Bill Act.\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ The purpose of paragraph f(2) is made even more unclear because 
VA should already be reviewing student debt to VA for hardship pursuant 
to 38 U.S.C. Sec. 5302. If the intent of the bill is to require VA to 
consider whether a student's liability to VA would likely cause the 
student to withdraw from school as part of a hardship review, then that 
could be achieved with a simpler provision.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Student veterans who contact us often have complaints about 
misleading information and the low quality education they receive from 
predatory schools, and they do not want to spend any more of their GI 
Bill at the school. Further, students may not want to assume 
obligations under a payment plan with VA. This bill would put students 
in jeopardy because institutions could misuse this provision to provide 
unreliable and self-serving information to the Secretary about the 
student's circumstances, resulting in the repayment obligation being 
shifted to a student who actually may not intend to continue in the 
program.
    Especially troublesome, predatory schools could use the threat of 
aggressive collection practices and prohibitive institutional debt to 
intimidate students into staying enrolled and assuming a payment plan 
with VA with more favorable terms. This bill would unintentionally 
provide schools with the means to intimidate students to remain 
enrolled at an institution or incentivize students to stay enrolled at 
a low-quality school.
    Similar to subparagraph f(2), the problem to be solved and the 
scope of the solution in proposed subsection (g) are not clear. It 
appears that the Secretary will be prohibited from seeking recovery of 
overpayments under Section 3685 that occurred prior to the enactment of 
the Act, and that this protection may only relate to seeking recovery 
from institutions.
    We urge the Committee to set aside this current draft legislation 
and engage in further fact-finding and policy development without the 
unintended consequences of undermining the 2021 law that holds 
institutions liable for overpayments.

H.R.--, To amend title 38, United States Code, to provide for an annual 
increase in stipend for books, supplies, equipment, and other 
educational costs under Post-9/11 Educational Assistance Program of 
Department of Veterans Affairs

    This bill proposes an annual increase in the stipend for books, 
supplies, equipment, and other educational costs under the Post-9/11 GI 
Bill. The key provisions include raising the stipend amount to $1,400 
from the current maximum of $1,000 and introducing a new requirement 
for the Secretary to adjust the stipend based on the Consumer Price 
Index (CPI) each fiscal year.
    The present book stipend amount has not changed since the original 
Post-9/11 GI Bill legislation passed in 2008.\3\ This stipend has not 
kept pace with the increased costs of educational materials. The Bureau 
of Labor and Statistics inflation calculator estimates that the 
economic value of $1,000 in 2008 is worth nearly $1,500 today, a 
roughly 50 percent increase, and yet the book stipend has remained 
stagnant.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Section 5003 of H.R. 2642, the Supplemental Appropriations Act 
of 2008 authorized the book stipend, codified as 38 U.S.C. 
Sec. 3313(e)(2)(B)(iv)(I).
    \4\ The Bureau of Labor and Statistics inflation calculator 
estimates $1,000 in 2008 would be valued at roughly $1,485 in 2024. 
Reference: https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We support this common-sense legislation to modernize the amount of 
the book stipend and additional increases based on the CPI. We thank 
the Subcommittee for addressing this long overdue issue.

H.R.--, the Reforming Education for Veterans Act

    This bill would seek to codify certain policies for GI Bill 
students during periods of military service, including the requirement 
of a leave of absence policy. It would also decrease the number of 
compliance surveys for educational institutions that have multiple 
locations, and mandate timely updates to the school certifying 
officials (SCO) handbook.
    We support the intended goal of improving protections for student 
veterans who are mobilized for a period of military service. However, 
we believe those protections are already enshrined in two separate 
pieces of legislation: the Isakson-Roe Act, which conditions 
eligibility for VA funds on similar accommodations, and the Higher 
Education Opportunity Act, which requires all Title IV institutions to 
accommodate servicemembers when they are activated.\5\, \6\ 
We are concerned that the enactment of yet a third piece of legislation 
mandating essentially the same accommodations is not only redundant, 
but also could lead to confusion and complicate compliance.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ Public Law 116-315, Section 1018 stipulates institutions must, 
``maintain a policy that (i) ensures that members of the Armed Forces, 
including the reserve components and the National Guard, who enroll in 
a course of education at the educational institution may be readmitted 
at such institution if such members are temporarily unavailable or have 
to suspend such enrollment by reason of serving in the Armed Forces; 
and (ii) otherwise accommodates such members during short absences by 
reason of such service.''
    \6\ Public Law 110-315, Section 487 stipulates institutions must, 
``Any student whose absence from an institution of higher education is 
necessitated by reason of service in the uniformed services shall be 
entitled to readmission to the institution of higher education if (A) 
the student (or an appropriate officer of the Armed Forces or official 
of the Department of Defense) gives advance written or verbal notice of 
such service to the appropriate official at the institution of higher 
education; (B) the cumulative length of the absence and of all previous 
absences from that institution of higher education by reason of service 
in the uniformed services does not exceed 5 years; and (C) except as 
otherwise provided in this section, the student submits a notification 
of intent to reenroll in the institution of higher education in 
accordance with the provisions of paragraph (4).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We urge the Committee to abandon Section 3, which proposes limiting 
annual compliance surveys at multi-campus institutions to no more than 
one. We are alarmed at the notion of allowing any venue where veterans 
may enroll and use their hard-earned benefits to skip a compliance 
survey. This would be a giveaway to college chains that operate many 
locations. Conditions at one campus location do not necessarily reflect 
the circumstances of other campuses, and even aggregating data across 
multiple campuses can mask subpar conditions that fall below the 
compliance thresholds.
    Ensuring compliance by every branch is important to protecting 
student veterans and the GI Bill. Compliance burdens are the price that 
institutions voluntarily accept in exchange for eligibility for GI Bill 
funds. We believe it is entirely reasonable that VA be allowed to 
ensure that all venues enrolling veterans are in compliance with the 
requirements that Congress has seen fit to impose on institutional 
participants.
    Finally, we acknowledge the importance of timely updates to SCOs, 
as they are oftentimes the frontline support for student veterans on 
campus. Ensuring they have the most current guidance, consistent with 
the statute and intent of Congress, is critical to the proper 
functioning of GI Bill benefits. We support this section of the bill, 
and would support the inclusion of this provision in future 
legislation.

H.R.--, the Modernizing the Veterans On-Campus Experience Act of 2024

    This bill would improve on-campus educational and vocational 
counseling provided by VA's VetSuccess on Campus (VSOC) program. It 
revises counselor qualifications, allowing them to serve at multiple 
campuses and limiting their caseloads to 25 individuals at a time.
    A key feature of this bill is allowing counselors to serve multiple 
campuses. This flexibility addresses the issue of limited resources at 
some institutions, ensuring that more veterans can access these 
services regardless of their location. It maximizes the use of 
available counselors and creates a broader support network.
    Additionally, the bill limits the number of individuals a counselor 
can serve to 25 at a time. This cap would help to maintain the quality 
and effectiveness of the counseling services, ensuring that each 
veteran receives personalized attention.
    We support this legislation, and thank Chairman Van Orden for 
leading this proposal.

H.R.--, Warriors to Workforce Act

    This bill would increase the monthly housing allowance (MHA) 
stipend from 80 percent to 90 percent for veterans during the total 
first year of full-time apprenticeship or on-job training (OJT) 
programs. Presently, veterans receive 100 percent of the MHA for the 
first 6 months, which decreases by 20 percent every 6 months that 
follows.
    We believe there are a variety of beneficial pathways available 
with the GI Bill, including apprenticeships and OJT programs. While 
these programs are lesser known in comparison to traditional 2-and 4-
year degrees, for many of the veterans who make use of these pathways 
they can offer long-term gainful employment.\7\ We believe additional 
monetary support during the transition period will allow veterans to 
focus more on their training, and to worry less about their finances.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \7\ A 2015 Government Accountability Office report titled, 
``Outcome Measures and More Outreach Would Enhance the Post-9/11 On-
the-Job Training and Apprenticeship Programs'' found that veterans make 
use of OJT and apprenticeship programs at a rate of approximately 2 
percent of over all GI Bill users. For more details, reference: https:/
/www.gao.gov/assets/gao-16-215t.pdf.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We do note, as a practical matter, that an increase in funding of 
the second 6-month period creates a greater disparity as the MHA rate 
would drop in the following period from the proposed 90 percent down to 
60 percent (as opposed dropping from 80 percent to 60 percent). We 
would encourage the Subcommittee to consider this element in 
discussions with VA, and ways to mitigate any risks associated with a 
steeper decline in the MHA during that period.
    We support this legislation, and thank the Subcommittee for 
presenting it for consideration. We also thank the Chairman for 
championing this proposal, and look forward to providing any additional 
feedback on it as the Subcommittee may request.

H.R. 7986, the Veterans Education and Technical Skills Opportunity Act 
    of 2024

    The Veterans Education and Technical Skills Opportunity Act of 
2024, or ``VETS Opportunity Act'' would modify the criteria for 
approval of certain independent study programs. Specifically, the bill 
seeks to amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3680A(a)(4)(B)(iii)(II) to add, as an 
exception to the prohibition against independent study programs, for-
profit programs that do not lead to a standard college degree or to a 
certificate at an institution of higher learning.
    We urge the Committee to set aside this legislation and undertake 
further analysis. The rationale and actual need for this legislation 
are unclear, and the current proposal would pose dangerous unintended 
consequences to student veterans.
    Some proponents of this legislation contend it is needed so that 
``hybrid programs'' - defined as programs offered as a combination of 
online and resident training - at for-profit institutions may be 
approved, but this argument is fundamentally flawed and misleading. 
Hybrid standard college degree and certificate programs offered at 
institutions of higher learning, which includes for-profit schools, may 
be approved under Sec. 3680A(a)(4) already. Therefore, the proposed 
amendments to Sec. 3680(A) are unnecessary for providing access to 
hybrid programs, if that is the intention of the legislation.
    As the bill is currently drafted, the changes will open up the GI 
Bill to a subset of so-called independent study programs that were 
wisely excluded when Sec. 3680A was last amended, due to the 
exploitative nature and lack of accountability.\8\ The exclusion of 
those programs was extensively considered, and agreed upon by 
overwhelmingly bipartisan congressional majorities as part of the 
passage of the Forever GI Bill in 2017. We believe this legislation 
would open up the GI Bill to some of the worst and most exploitative 
programs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \8\  Public Law 115-48, Section 302, https://www.Congress.gov/115/
statute/STATUTE-131/STATUTE-131-Pg973.pdf
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From a technical perspective, it is unclear why this legislation 
proposes expanding the current definition to also include subsection 
(a) of Sec. 3680A, as inclusion of foreign programs under this change 
would be unusual. Furthermore, the term ``is qualified to participate 
in the student financial assistance programs authorized by Title IV of 
that Act'' would be a weak and inadequate standard. We believe, at 
minimum, it should be amended to read, ``participates in the student 
financial assistance programs authorized by Title IV of that Act.'' Any 
programs that would be eligible for Title IV funds, but elect to not 
accept Title IV funding, often do so to avoid the requirements and 
scrutiny that accompany a signed program participating agreement with 
the U.S. Department of Education.\9\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \9\ There may be rare exceptions to this, such as some religious 
institutions that object to title IV resources on the basis of their 
beliefs.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    We strongly oppose this legislation, and encourage the Subcommittee 
not to advance it for additional consideration.

Conclusion

    Veterans Education Success sincerely appreciates the opportunity to 
express our views before this Subcommittee. We look forward to the 
discussion and review of these proposals, and we are grateful for the 
continued opportunities to collaborate on these topics.

 Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, Veterans 
Education Success has not received any Federal grants in Fiscal Year 
2024, nor has it received any Federal grants in the two previous Fiscal 
Years.

                                 

  Prepared Statement of Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States

    Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the 
subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign 
Wars of the United States (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the 
opportunity to provide our remarks on legislation pending before this 
subcommittee.

H.R. 226, Veterans Collaboration Act

    The VFW supports the intent of this legislation to establish a 
pilot program that encourages greater collaboration between the 
Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) and nonprofit organizations and 
institutions of higher education. This would promote VA partnerships 
with Veterans Service Organizations that provide claims assistance. It 
would also encourage partnerships with educational institutions that 
provide pro bono legal services to veterans.
    Our one suggested language modification to this legislation is to 
specify that partnerships with Veterans Service Organizations include 
free assistance by VA-accredited representatives. The VFW strongly 
supports greater outreach to veterans to access their earned benefits 
and believes no veteran should have to pay a fee for those services. 
This is an important clarification to include in the bill text.

H.R. 7543, Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024

    The VFW strongly supports this legislation to create equity in VA 
education benefits for Reserve Component service members. National 
Guard and Reserve members train alongside active duty service members 
and consistently make sacrifices without always earning the same VA 
education benefits. This bill would allow any day in uniform receiving 
military pay to count toward Post-9/11 GI Bill eligibility. For years, 
the sacrifices of Guard and Reserve service members have been 
overlooked in achieving GI Bill eligibility. The time is now for parity 
with all the armed forces in earning VA education benefits.

H.R. 7920, Agriculture Grants for Veterans Education and Training 
Services Act

    The VFW supports this legislation to create a program within the 
Department of Agriculture to award competitive grants to entities that 
provide farming and ranching opportunities to veterans. While a 
traditional 4-year degree program might not be desirable for every 
veteran after service, we support training and education opportunities 
for all types of employment. Farming and ranching work can provide 
satisfying, stable work that contributes to the community in a positive 
way.

Discussion Draft, To amend title 38, United States Code, to provide for 
an annual increase in stipend for books, supplies, equipment, and other 
educational costs under Post-9/11 Educational Assistance Program of 
Department of Veterans Affairs

    The VFW supports this legislation to increase the annual stipend 
for books, supplies, and equipment under the Post-9/11 GI Bill from 
$1,000 to $1,400. While the cost of books and printed materials has 
increased significantly over the last decade, and even more so due to 
recent levels of inflation, VA's book stipend for students has remained 
stagnant. This benefit is a critical component to a veteran's education 
and should be increased regularly to meet rising costs.

Discussion Draft, To amend title 38, United States Code, to increase 
the amount of educational assistance paid by the Secretary of Veterans 
Affairs to an eligible individual during the first year of a full-time 
program of apprenticeship or other on-job training

    The VFW supports this legislation to increase the housing allowance 
during the second 6-month period of an apprenticeship or on-the-job 
training program for which a veteran is using VA education benefits. 
The increase from 80 percent to 90 percent would help veterans complete 
these important education programs that provide direct job training 
while ensuring their basic housing needs are covered. The VFW would 
also like to see more data reported on the success of these programs, 
as well as information to better understand the needs of the veterans 
who decide to drop out before completion.

Discussion Draft, End Veteran Homelessness Act of 2024

    The VFW supports this proposal to modify the Department of Housing 
and Urban Development-VA Supportive Housing (HUD-VASH) program. HUD-
VASH combines HUD's Housing Choice Voucher rental assistance with VA 
case management and supportive services. This proposal would expand 
case management for homeless veterans to provide assistance with rental 
costs and administrative fees such as security deposits. The bill would 
also establish an annual report on the HUD-VASH program including usage 
data, staffing ratios, services provided to veterans, and barriers that 
prevented voucher use. Last, the proposal includes a Government 
Accountability Office report on characteristics of homeless veterans 
served by the HUD-VASH program. These reports would provide important 
information on the success of the program and would assist in 
identifying where specific improvements should be made.

Draft Discussion, Student Veteran Debt Relief Act of 2024

    The VFW supports this legislation to address student debt due to 
overpayment of VA education benefits. If VA overpays a student or 
school, the student should not be negatively impacted. VA should make 
every effort to recoup the funds while ensuring that the student, if 
liable, is offered a payment plan to repay the debt over time. Errors 
made by VA should not prevent student veterans from completing their 
education courses in a timely manner. Financial stability is critical 
while they are studying or training to maximize the potential of their 
education leading to stable employment and successful outcomes after 
graduation.

Draft Discussion, VA Housing Loan Forever Act of 2023

    The VFW membership is currently reviewing this proposal. If a VFW 
resolution reaches our national convention this July, we will have more 
feedback to inform our position on this proposal.

Draft Discussion, Modernizing the Veterans On-Campus Experience Act of 
2024

    The VFW supports the intent of this proposed legislation that 
specifies the requirement of a bachelor's degree for VA on-campus 
counselors. It would also create a limit for counselors to provide 
services to no more than twenty-five students at a time.
    The VFW is concerned about shortages of both VetSuccess on Campus 
(VSOC) counselors and Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) 
counselors on college campuses across the country. Since taking on 
Chapter 31 casework, we have heard that VSOC staff are experiencing 
burnout and have limited time to carry out their VSOC-focused work. We 
have also heard that VSOC counselors often work with forty or more 
students at a time, so capping the number of veterans they serve may 
not be feasible or helpful. We agree that lowering the education 
requirement from a master's degree to a bachelor's degree could help 
increase the amount of applicants for these important jobs. We would 
argue that keeping this requirement flexible could also increase the 
demand for these positions as well as the potential to retain the right 
staff who would not be easily tempted to leave for other types of work.

Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives

Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, the VFW has 
not received any Federal grants in Fiscal Year 2024, nor has it 
received any Federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.

The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign 
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.

                                 

 Prepared Statement of National Guard Association of the United States

    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and distinguished members of 
the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs, on behalf of the almost 
45,000 members of the National Guard Association of the United States 
and the nearly 450,000 Soldiers and Airmen of the National Guard, we 
appreciate this opportunity to submit a statement for record. We are 
deeply grateful for the work of this committee and your staff members. 
Your tireless dedication toward improving the lives of veterans has led 
to substantial policy change with lasting impact. We stand together 
with you all to defend those who protect and defend our Nation. 
Specifically, we would like to highlight three bills that improve 
servicemembers education benefits.

H.R. 7543, The GRAD Act

    As we celebrate the 80th anniversary of the GI Bill this year, we 
reflect on the incredible impact it has made on generations of 
servicemembers. When a servicemember steps up to enlist in the 
military, they commit to the security of our Nation. In return, we 
commit to their future by providing education benefits. What better way 
to honor the spirit of this monumental policy than by extending it to 
cover all military service for the Guard and Reserve. While members of 
the Reserve Component maintain the same level of daily preparedness as 
the Active Component, they do not receive the same benefits for the 
same service. This inequity must be corrected.
    We ask for full consideration and support of H.R. 7543, the Guard 
and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act (GRAD Act). We have been working on this 
effort for several congresses with your committee and this year's 
language is the ideal approach, covering all title 32 service. As 
negotiations continue, we express the importance to cover all Annual 
Training (AT) and Inactive Duty Training (IDT). A day in uniform is a 
day in service to this country and should count toward education 
benefits.

H.R. 8607

    Inflation has caused costs to skyrocket across all markets and 
books and supplies for college have been no different. According to the 
Bureau of Labor Statistics, between 2006 and 2016 college textbook 
prices increased by 88 percent. The stipend of $1000 no longer covers 
the yearly expenses that it once did. Raising this stipend and linking 
it to the Consumer Price Index is the right move and ensures equitable 
reimbursements well into the future. We fully support this effort to 
modernize this benefit and bring it into the 21st century.

H.R. 8627, Student Veteran Debt Relief Act of 2024

    Last, we support this effort to put limitations on establishing a 
statute of limitations for the Department of Veterans Affairs to recoup 
any overpayments that have been made. We believe a 10-year window is 
more than adequate for the government to acknowledge any payment 
errors. Often, the individual has no idea the overpayment was even 
made. Servicemembers should not have to live in fear of whether or not 
the government is someday going to come to them for a repayment. This 
is a common sense correction that protects veterans.

Conclusion:

    I thank you again for taking up these critical issues and for 
allowing NGAUS to submit this statement. These efforts will provide 
even more servicemembers with much needed benefits and breakdown 
barriers to education. These policies truly make a difference in the 
lives of our Guardsmen and their families. I look forward to continuing 
our work together and sincerely appreciate the steadfast leadership 
from the members and their staffers in advocating for the National 
Guard.

         Prepared Statement of Reserve Organization of America
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
      Prepared Statement of National Alliance to End Homelessness

    The National Alliance to End Homelessness (``the Alliance''), which 
is a nonpartisan, nonprofit, mission-driven organization committed to 
preventing and ending homelessness, thanks Chairman Van Orden, Ranking 
Member Levin, and other distinguished members of the House Committee on 
Veteran Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, for including in 
today's hearing the End Veteran Homelessness Act of 2024 (H.R. 8560), 
which was recently introduced by Representatives Takano, Waters, and 
Levin. The Alliance testified before this Subcommittee on March 16, 
2022, to discuss, among other things, an earlier draft of this bill. 
The Alliance appreciates the extensive consultation the sponsors have 
undertaken with Veterans, homeless services providers, homelessness 
groups, and veteran groups in drafting this legislation.
    The Alliance is pleased to endorse the End Veteran Homelessness Act 
because it will update the HUD-VASH program, which has ended 
homelessness for thousands of Veterans with severe disabilities and has 
become a model for homeless services programs. We believe the 
legislation would allow HUD-VASH to continue to serve homeless Veterans 
with the most acute needs with both housing assistance and wraparound 
services, but also permit the program to use more vouchers more quickly 
and thus safely and securely house more homeless Veterans.
    The HUD-VASH program has been one of the most important tools 
driving the reduction in homelessness among Veterans. It provides deep 
rent subsidies so that participants can afford housing no matter how 
low their incomes; along with intensive case management to ensure that 
participants can access the full range of healthcare, employment, and 
other services available through VA and other means.
    This intervention model, known generically as permanent supportive 
housing (PSH), has been demonstrated in numerous studies to achieve 
excellent results, ending homelessness for people who most would be 
ready to give up on; reducing bad outcomes, including incarceration and 
death; and saving money for a range of systems, particularly 
healthcare.
    HUD-VASH's PSH model has the greatest positive impact when used for 
people with the most severe problems. Relative to other homelessness 
interventions like rapid re-housing, it is an expensive model; but by 
stabilizing the housing and lives of people with severe physical and 
behavioral health issues who have been homeless for years, it vastly 
improves their lives, while saving money for the government, through 
reductions in spending on jails, shelters, emergency rooms, 
hospitalizations, and commitments to mental health facilities. There 
are other effective alternatives for homeless Veterans with less acute 
needs. However, for Veterans with severe disabilities, nothing works 
like HUD-VASH.
    The concept of ``chronic homelessness'' has been developed largely 
to articulate which people are the appropriate participants in PSH, and 
VA has largely targeted HUD-VASH to these Veterans: those with severe 
disabilities, who have been homeless in shelters or unsheltered 
situations for at least a year. This targeting has been a large part of 
the cause for reductions in Veterans' homelessness. Decades of research 
show that when there is insufficient funding to assist everyone who 
needs help securing housing, reductions in homelessness are maximized 
by providing scarce housing resources to those who are already homeless 
and have been homeless for the longest time, since they are least 
likely to escape homelessness without help.
    The progress on Veterans' homelessness since 2008 has meant that 
some communities have essentially ended chronic homelessness among 
Veterans. At the same time, however, the most recent Point-in-Time 
count indicates there are 38,000 homeless Veterans on any given night 
and that veteran homelessness increased by more than 7 percent in 2023 
because of the longstanding but worsening crisis in affordable housing. 
Moreover, 30,000 HUD-VASH vouchers are not being used. Clearly, the 
time has come to expand the eligibility for HUD-VASH in order to serve 
more homeless Veterans--but without allowing any reduction in the 
program's commitment to serve chronically homeless Veterans. The 
Alliance believes that The End Veteran Homelessness Act allows the HUD-
VASH program to successfully make this transition, using existing 
resources more economically to safely and securely house more homeless 
Veterans.
    The legislation ensures HUD-VASH stays true to its mission by 
prioritizing for case management ``vulnerable homeless Veterans, 
including Veterans who are homeless and who have disabilities 
(including chronic mental illness, chronic substance abuse disorders, 
or chronic physical disabilities''.
    However, the legislation would also allow for unused HUD-VASH 
vouchers to be used to house other Veterans who are homeless or at 
great risk of homelessness but currently ineligible for the program, 
including the elderly or heads of family with very low incomes; as well 
as Veterans ``receiving assistance under another Federal housing 
assistance program'', which frees up those resources to be used by non-
Veterans.
    Moreover, the legislation also endows HUD-VASH vouchers with 
special incentives that will allow them to be leased up more quickly. 
These incentives are inspired by Emergency Housing Vouchers, which were 
temporarily made available to communities in the early 2020's and they 
were generally successful because of the rapidity with which these 
vouchers housed people experiencing homelessness, even in tight rental 
markets, thanks in large part to the flexible funding provided to 
Public Housing Authorities for landlord incentives, security deposits, 
and housing navigation.
    The End Veteran Homelessness Act would make better use of HUD 
resources, ensure that HUD-VASH continues to prioritize homeless 
Veterans with the greatest needs, while allowing the program to serve 
additional homeless Veterans with vouchers that will be leased up 
faster than ever--that's why the Alliance has endorsed this 
legislation. If the Committee has any questions about our views of the 
End Veteran Homelessness Act, please contact the Alliance's John 
Threlkeld ([email protected]).

                                 

Prepared Statement of Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the 
                             United States

H.R. 7543, the Guard and Reserve GI Bill Parity Act of 2024

    ``The Citizen Soldiers and Airmen of the National Guard daily serve 
our Nation, both at home and abroad. Every time they put on the 
military uniform, they represent dedication and loyalty to America. The 
GI Bill Parity Act represents gratitude for the commitment and 
sacrifice that these men and women exemplify in their service. Ensuring 
that the National Guard receives the appropriate credit for the 
education benefits that they enlisted for every time they represent 
this Nation is more than just keeping a promise and saying thank you, 
it is giving each of them the chance to accomplish goals, reach 
potentials, and be their best outside of the uniform. The Enlisted 
Association of the National Guard of the United States is proud of this 
legislation, along with all the work of the committee, that continues 
to highlight the National Guard, our service members, the families of 
the Guard, and the importance of ensuring we have the best trained and 
qualified military in the world.''

    Enlisted Association of the National Guard of the United States

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