[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                      ENSURING VA'S SECURITY: HOW
                       CAN CONGRESS BEST SUPPORT
                         VA'S LAW ENFORCEMENT?
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                        SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND 
                              INVESTIGATIONS

                                OF THE

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                         THURSDAY, MAY 16, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-64

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]       


                    Available via http://govinfo.gov
                    
                                __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
56-195                     WASHINGTON : 2025                  
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------     
                   
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

              SUBCOMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND INVESTIGATIONS

               JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia, Chairwoman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana, Ranking 
    American Samoa                       Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
                                         Florida

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined.
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                         THURSDAY, MAY 16, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Jennifer A. Kiggans, Chairwoman....................     1
The Honorable Frank J. Mrvan, Ranking Member.....................     2

                               WITNESSES
                                Panel I

Mr. Alfred Montoya, Deputy Assistant Under Secretary for Health 
  Operations, Veterans Health Administration, U.S. Department of 
  Veterans Affairs...............................................     4

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. Troy Brown, Senior Security Officer, Veterans Health 
        Administration, U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs

    Ms. Brandy Soto, Chief of Police, Little Rock, Arkansas 
        Veterans Affairs Medical Center, U.S. Department of 
        Veterans Affairs

    Mr. George Chester, Chief of Police, Detroit, Michigan 
        Veterans Affairs Medical Center, U.S. Department of 
        Veterans Affairs

Mr. Bryan Hunt, President, AFGE Local #2384......................     5

                                Panel II

Mr. Kapua Conley, Regional President, Sentara Healthcare System, 
  Hampton, Virginia..............................................    18

Mr. Chuck Dowd, Vice President, Public Safety Broadband 
  Technology Association, Las Vegas, Nevada......................    20

Mr. Jon Retzer, Assistant National Legislative Director, Disabled 
  American Veterans..............................................    22

                                APPENDIX
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Alfred Montoya Prepared Statement............................    35
Mr. Bryan Hunt Prepared Statement................................    38
Mr. Kapua Conley Prepared Statement..............................    42
Mr. Chuck Dowd Prepared Statement................................    44
Mr. Jon Retzer Prepared Statement................................    49

                        Statement For The Record

Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association Prepared Statement..    51

 
                      ENSURING VA'S SECURITY: HOW
                       CAN CONGRESS BEST SUPPORT
                         VA'S LAW ENFORCEMENT?

                              ----------                              


                         THURSDAY, MAY 16, 2024

             Subcommittee on Oversight and 
                            Investigations,
                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:03 p.m., in 
room 390, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Jen Kiggans 
[Chairwoman of the subcommittee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Kiggans, Bergman, Rosendale, 
Luttrell, Mrvan, Pappas, and Cherfilus-McCormick.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, CHAIRWOMAN

    Ms. Kiggans. Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come to 
order. Thank you all for being here today for this oversight 
hearing on the challenges and needs of the U.S. Department of 
Veteran Affairs (VA) Police Force and how Congress can support 
them in fulfilling their critical mission.
    Before we proceed further, I ask unanimous consent for 
Representative Morgan Luttrell to participate in this hearing. 
This week we celebrate Police Week, and I am grateful for the 
opportunity to highlight our brave men and women in uniform. VA 
police do critical work to ensure our Nation's heroes safely 
receive the care and benefits they have earned. I would like to 
take a moment to say thank you to the current and former VA 
police and other first responders who have joined us today. I 
am excited to welcome Chief Soto and Chief Chester, along with 
former VA police officer of the year, Mr. Hunt.
    The VA police play a vital role in ensuring the safety and 
security of VA facilities, employees, and the veterans they 
serve. In fact, many VA police are veterans themselves. The 
stakes are high, and VA police face unique challenges that make 
it hard for them to carry out their duties. VA police are often 
in dangerous and difficult situations. It is essential they 
receive the training and support necessary to handle these 
situations safely and effectively. As Senate Veterans Affairs 
Ranking Member Moran pointed out in a recent letter, Congress 
must explore ways to enhance training programs for VA police 
officers and put the pressure on the VA to provide them with 
tools and resources needed to protect themselves and others. VA 
police are often the only individuals equipped to help a 
veteran who enters the facility with the intent of taking their 
own life. Suicide prevention training is paramount for all 
police officers and is required by law, but recent data shows 
it has not, so far, been a priority of the Department. Another 
issue facing the VA police is the need for improved 
coordination and communication with other law enforcement 
agencies. The VA police, often in emergency situations, work 
alongside other Federal, State, and local law enforcement 
agencies, and it is crucial that they have effective 
communication channels in place to coordinate their efforts and 
respond to emergencies quickly.
    Today, I hope to learn more about the technologies and best 
practices that could help reduce these communication 
challenges. On top of these issues, VA police have constant 
issues with recruitment. Through the Sergeant First Class Heath 
Robinson Honoring our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics 
(PACT) Act, Congress authorized critical skills incentive 
payments, which can help VA police with staffing shortages due 
to pay. Congress, however, must continue to work with VA to 
address staffing shortages and ensure VA police have the 
resources they need to fulfill their mission.
    VA police play a vital role in ensuring the safety and 
security of VA facilities and the veterans they serve. As such, 
Congress must make sure VA police have the tools they need to 
carry out their critical mission. Thank you again for being 
here today, I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how 
we can best support the VA police force.
    With that, I now recognize Ranking Member Mrvan for his 
opening comments.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF FRANK J. MRVAN, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Chair Kiggans. I appreciate the 
opportunity to discuss the issues impacting our VA police 
officers and other essential security staff. This hearing is 
very timely considering it is National Police Week.
    I want to start by thanking those first responders, active 
and retired, that are here today. Thank you for your dedication 
to keeping our veterans, caregivers, and VA staff safe day in 
and day out. The VA police have an important duty and great 
responsibility in protecting veterans and the VA providers. 
They also play a key role in ensuring VA facilities are a 
welcoming community for every veteran, a community many belong 
to themselves. Nearly 90 percent of VA police are veterans.
    This committee has led several hearings and roundtables in 
recent years to discuss the challenges facing the VA police 
force. However, it is long overdue that Congress takes the 
feedback we have received and creates solutions. For example, 
over half of the medical facilities surveyed in Fiscal Year 
2023 by VA's Office of Inspector General (OIG) reported a 
severe police shortage, that is 73 facilities. These 
significant shortages have persisted since at least Fiscal Year 
2018 and partially driven by disparities in officer pay and 
benefits. Based on exit survey data from 2021 and 2022, nearly 
30 percent of respondents departed the VA police service due to 
pay and benefit issues.
    Today, our VA police force, our police officers, are still 
not treated equitably with their other Federal law enforcement 
counterparts. The bipartisan H.R. 1322, the Law Enforcement 
Officers Equity Act, take steps toward creating that equity. In 
granting these dedicated Federal employees their earned 
retirement benefits, VA stands to create a significant gap in 
institutional knowledge and expertise at the hands of 
resolvable issues like pay and benefits. That is extremely 
distressing considering our veterans and VA providers rely on 
adequate security in order to access care and perform their 
responsibilities.
    I urge my colleagues in the Committee on Oversight and 
Accountability to work with me to advance this bill. Further, 
oversight performed by the Government Accountability Office and 
VA's Office of Inspector General have identified serious 
deficiencies in risk management efforts and actual physical 
security outcomes. Both entities have indicated that the VA 
lacks a comprehensive security strategy.
    VA also has a convoluted and decentralized governance 
structure. This has led to a lack of understanding of what is 
required of both frontline workers and security administrators. 
VA has reportedly begun the process to develop these documents, 
but we have not yet received an update or plans of 
implementation. Recent events, such as the tragedies in Atlanta 
and Kansas City, underscore the need for increased attention to 
policies, regulations, and trainings so we can strengthen VA 
security.
    I am extremely concerned about the reports that only one 
third of VA police have completed their required suicide 
prevention training. This Congress, this subcommittee has 
considered legislative proposals to update weapons detection 
technology at VA facilities across the enterprise. I have been 
and continue to be supportive of the efforts to create a safer 
VA. However, I believe these proposals must be driven first and 
foremost by veterans and what they need to help them feel safe 
at VA facilities.
    We should also ensure that veterans feel that they can 
access their care with ease. We need to work with VA providers 
and security personnel to understand what solutions will 
empower them to perform their job fully and safely. Finally, we 
must study and incorporate best practices into VA security 
strategies.
    I look forward to hearing from the healthcare providers, 
the organizations here today on these efforts. This week, we 
learned that VA has taken steps to start piloting this 
technology at VA medical centers across the country. While I 
support VA taking proactive steps to improve safety and 
security at its facilities, I am concerned that this is the 
first time we are hearing about this pilot. To my knowledge, VA 
has not yet brought veterans along with this change either. I 
look forward to sitting down with Veterans Service 
Organizations (VSOs) to hear what veterans want and need to 
make them feel safer at all VA facilities. I urge the VA to do 
the same.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Ranking Member Mrvan. We will now 
turn to witness testimony. Testifying before us today on our 
first panel, we have, from the VA, Mr. Alfred Montoya, the 
Deputy Assistant Undersecretary for Health Operations at the 
VA. We have Mr. Troy Brown, Senior Security Officer at the VA. 
We have Ms. Brandy Soto, the Chief of Police, Little Rock 
Veteran Affairs Medical Center. Mr. George Chester, Chief of 
Police, Detroit, Michigan Veterans Affairs Medical Center 
(VAMC). From the American Federation of Government Employees 
(AFGE), the 2012 VA Police Officer of the Year, Mr. Bryan Hunt, 
AFGE President Local 2384.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Ms. Kiggans. Let the record reflect that the witnesses 
answered in the affirmative. You may be seated. Mr. Montoya, 
you are now recognized for 5 minutes to provide your testimony.

                  STATEMENT OF ALFRED MONTOYA

    Mr. Montoya. Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Mrvan, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to 
join you during National Police Week to discuss the Department 
of Veterans Affairs law enforcement and how Congress can best 
support VA personnel in their efforts to serve and protect our 
veterans, employees, and visitors on VA property. Your past 
support has been imperative in ensuring we accomplish our 
mission, and we look forward to continuing that close 
collaboration.
    I am joined today by Chiefs Troy Brown, VA's Senior 
Security Officer; Brandy Soto of Little Rock, Arkansas; George 
Chester of Detroit, Michigan. I would also like to recognize 
Chief Troy Covington of Martinsburg, West Virginia and Major 
Mark Moran, a physical security specialist, who are seated 
behind me.
    The VA police force is crucial in securing VA facilities 
through specialized law enforcement. Its role is multifaceted, 
encompassing law enforcement, security, and public safety 
responsibilities across VA medical centers, regional offices, 
and other facilities nationwide. Officers Jason Ledbetter and 
Chief Gene Parker at the Kansas City, VA exemplify that role. 
Without hesitation, they put themselves directly in harm's way 
to safely disarm a veteran with a loaded pistol, his finger on 
the trigger, the hammer cocked. Because of their quick action, 
professionalism, and compassion, they got that veteran to 
surrender, and he was later admitted to receive the mental 
health care he needed.
    Our officers are highly trained to handle various 
situations, from patrols and emergency responses to crisis 
intervention, while prioritizing the needs of veterans. We 
strive for open, secure facilities while balancing visitor 
access, threats, policies, and standards. Adequate security 
requires planning to protect people, resources, and property, 
prevent theft, and use aids like security screenings and body 
cameras.
    The Federal Law Enforcement Accreditation Board certifies 
the VA's Law Enforcement Training Center (LETC), which offers a 
variety of courses for students and staff. VA has also 
partnered with law enforcement agencies and other government 
organizations, including the National Institutes of Health, the 
Department of Commerce, the Army, the Navy, and the Bureau of 
Prisons.
    Each of our officers is also proudly outfitted with body 
cameras, which protect the rights and well beings of veterans 
and staff members and foster a culture of trust and 
professionalism within the VA community. By capturing critical 
incidents and interactions. These cameras provide valuable 
insights that can inform training, policies, and decision-
making processes, ultimately ensuring a safer and more secure 
environment for all individuals at VA facilities.
    VA police faces challenges in recruiting qualified law 
enforcement candidates due to competition and negative 
perceptions. To address this, VA has a dedicated recruiting 
team that uses local initiatives, virtual events, and marketing 
campaigns to position itself as an employer of choice. Ensuring 
competitive pay to attract and retain qualified personnel is 
challenging, as discrepancies between agencies or regions can 
lead to retention issues. Federal law enforcement follows the 
general schedule, or GS pay scale, with entry level officers 
beginning at grades five or six and more experienced and 
supervisory staff at higher grades.
    Officers can progress through pay steps within their grade 
and locality pay and availability pay apply as appropriate.
    Pay parity and equity are crucial. Regular market analyses 
and salary surveys can align compensation with industry 
standards. Fiscal year 2022 saw difficulties in recruitment and 
retention. VA developed a shortage occupation blueprint for VA 
police to maximize incentives and implement referral programs. 
The number of VA police officers--the number of police officers 
in VA rather, increased by 7.4 percent in Fiscal Year 2023 and 
5.1 percent in Fiscal Year 2024. Currently, there are 4,254 
officers on the force. The retention efforts in Fiscal Year 
2024 show a positive trend with losses being 20 percent less 
than in Fiscal Year 2023 and 25 percent less than in Fiscal 
Year 2022.
    Our informed and intentional retention efforts have 
directly impacted hundreds of officers' decisions to remain in 
the VA police force, such as Officers Kara Morton, Timothy 
Stanton, Jerome Bell, and Gwendolyn Smith at the Durham VA 
Medical Center. These extraordinary officers answered the call 
of a terrified veteran's wife whose husband, a veteran in 
crisis, had overdosed in their car while sitting in a parking 
garage. They saved that veteran's life thanks to their 
compassion and quick action. Their actions exemplified the VA 
police force's commitment to ensuring a safe and secure 
environment for veterans, employees, and visitors alike.
    In closing, VA is firmly committed to enhancing our 
capabilities through ongoing training, modernization, and 
resource allocation. The proposed Fiscal Year 2025 budget will 
support these efforts and enable us to attract the best talent, 
invest in technology, and foster stronger partnerships.
    Thank you for allowing me to be here today. My team and I 
look forward to responding to your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Alfred Montoya Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Mr. Montoya. Mr. Hunt, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to provide your testimony.

                    STATEMENT OF BRYAN HUNT

    Mr. Hunt. Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Mrvan, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting AFGE to 
participate in today's hearing. My name is Bryan Hunt and I 
serve as the President of AFGE Local 2384 at the Louis A. 
Johnson VA Medical Center in Clarksburg, West Virginia. I am a 
U.S. Army combat veteran who proudly served our country during 
Operation Iraqi Freedom in the global war on terrorism.
    I am a service connected veteran who both works and 
receives my health care at the VA. Additionally, for 12 of my 
17 years at the VA, I served as a VA police officer, including 
being named VA police officer of the year in 2012.
    On behalf of AFGE and its National Veterans Affairs 
Council, representing 304,000 VA employees, it is a privilege 
to testify today. Specifically, I plan to focus my testimony on 
the approximately 2500 VA police officers AFGE represents, 90 
percent of whom are veterans themselves. AFGE has several 
recommendations for the subcommittee that can help the VA with 
recruitment and retention for VA police and help it better 
serve veterans.
    The single most effective action that Congress can take to 
help with the recruitment and retention of the VA police force 
is to extend law enforcement officer or LEO status to VA 
police. The current definition of a law enforcement officer 
relied upon in us code for LEO retirement does not include VA 
police. In turn, VA police do not receive retirement benefits 
on par with Federal law enforcement officers at other agencies.
    AFGE strongly supports H.R. 1322, the Law Enforcement 
Officers Equity Act, which would grant these benefits to VA 
police. This bipartisan bill currently has 83 cosponsors, 
including Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, Ranking Member 
Mrvan, Representative Pappas, and five other committee members. 
Providing full LEO status to VA police would significantly help 
the VA police with recruitment and retention.
    Currently, the VA hires new recruits, sends them to the VA 
Law Enforcement Training Center, and then sees these officers 
depart the VA for police positions with other agencies that do 
have these benefits or to State or local departments.
    Granting full LEO status to VA police will diminish this 
turnover, help the VA maintain a stronger and better trained 
police department with higher morale. Additionally, it is 
important to note that at a hearing before the subcommittee a 
year ago, Tracey Therit, VA's Chief Human Capital Officer, 
stated the VA very much supports the Law Enforcement Officer 
Equity Act.
    Speaking from my own experience, after serving 12 years 
with the VA police, I reluctantly took another position at my 
VA medical center. This position offered higher pay and room 
for advancement. To be frank, if the VA police received LEO 
benefits, I would not have left my position. I would still be a 
VA police officer today, protecting my fellow veterans.
    The VA police have a mission to protect those who served 
and I am proud to have been a part of that mission. The VA 
needs to recruit and retain a young and viable police force 
where future officers are not faced with a difficult decision 
that I had to make for me and my family. I urge members of this 
committee to cosponsor H.R. 1322 and support its passage.
    Next, the VA needs to improve the staffing levels of VA 
police to address documented severe shortages. To address this, 
VA has created GS-7 senior police officer positions and AFGE 
urges VA to continue to improve upward mobility. Furthermore, 
AFGE also supports changing statute to allow Federal police 
officers to advance from GS-7 to GS-9 without a year as a GS-8, 
which is currently required.
    AFGE is also concerned about the broad discretion local 
facility management has in its police department budget. AFGE 
has heard reports that some directors are intentionally 
characterizing their facilities in ways that justify having a 
police force, a smaller police force than what is required. We 
urge the VA to enforce its staffing models consistently.
    Furthermore, AFGE wants to highlight that VA police are 
funded from the same budgets as other medical center personnel. 
Medical center directors are forced to choose between hiring 
medical professionals or police officers. AFGE believes the 
committee and VA should consider a dedicated funding source for 
VA police to ensure that veterans protection is not a second 
tier funding priority.
    Finally, one of the key strengths of the VA police is the 
level of training officers must undergo to serve the veteran 
population, including crisis intervention training. This 
training is an extremely important and specialized investment 
that is intended to save lives. However, the high attrition 
rates of VA police who undergo this training puts an added 
strain on the VA resources when considering cost of training. 
This is exemplified by the LETC charging over $14,000 for a VA 
police officer standard training course taken out of the 
medical center's budget and does not include the crisis 
intervention training required by VA Veterans Comprehensive 
Prevention, Access to Care, and Treatment (COMPACT) Act.
    AFGE urges the committee to study how much VA spends on 
training, as well as a breakdown of costs for officers who 
leave shortly after receiving training. Additionally, the VA 
should calculate how it can save money by providing LEO 
benefits and improved use of special salary rates and retention 
bonuses. Improving retention would reduce the need for the VA 
to repeatedly provide training to new officers who are back-
filling positions due to poor retention. AFGE looks forward to 
working with the subcommittee to improve the recruitment, 
retention and morale of the VA police.
    Thank you and I am happy to answer any questions you may 
have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Bryan Hunt Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Mr. Hunt. We will now move to 
questions, and I yield myself 5 minutes. Chief Soto, I am glad 
to hear there has been a small uptick in VA police officers 
nationwide. Have the VA's efforts helped with recruitment and 
retention in Little Rock?
    Ms. Soto. Thank you for that question, madam. Our 
recruitment efforts have definitely improved in Little Rock 
with our efforts to be able to offer the relocation incentives, 
the recruitment incentives, the benefit of having a CSI option 
has definitely improved us as well. We go out and we market and 
search for those great candidates to be able to come and join 
our police force. Short answer, yes, ma'am, they have.
    The retention is a problem when it comes to them--being 
here in Little Rock, we have to offer more of a better benefit 
to be able to keep them in our ranks as opposed to them jumping 
to Little Rock Department or North Little Rock Department or a 
civil or Federal agency. Part of the argument that Mr. Hunt, I 
definitely appreciate that, and what Ranking Member Mrvan 
specified when it comes to retention and retirement. That is a 
very, very important tool that we need to be able to keep them 
on board as well as training, giving them their training. It is 
a benefit for us in Little Rock because we have LETC, the Law 
Enforcement Training Center right next door. We offer we are 
able to give them our--with the support from our Medical Center 
Director, we are able to give them the opportunities to go and 
have--be trained at the Law Enforcement Training Center.
    Ms. Kiggans. Is the VA police force having the same 
problems as our civilian police forces have, where they are 
kind of robbing or trading with each other for positions? Are 
you in the mix?
    Ms. Soto. Yes, ma'am. We usually say we steal from Peter to 
pay Paul. We definitely use that analogy. I have lost several 
good officers to our local civilian law enforcement. I have 
lost several good officers to the Parks Department, you know, 
different types of Federal agencies because they are well 
trained. They are very experienced. In Little Rock, I have a 
dual campus, so they are able to get that experience under 
their belt. Then they get advertised out and they go and 
improve their work-life balance in a different agency.
    Ms. Kiggans. We just do not have enough. Chief Chester, 
along those same lines, how about in Detroit? What have you 
been seeing?
    Mr. Chester. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Thing is that we have 
had a chance to improve our recruitment because of the special 
salary rate (SSR). Compared to Detroit Police Department that 
received a raise, we were able to look at our SSR, get an 
increase in our SSR to retain some of our officers. Because 
prior to that, I did lose some of my officers to go to other 
police agencies within our community.
    Ms. Kiggans. Okay, good. Mr. Hunt, congrats, first of all, 
on being honored as VA police officer of the year. We are happy 
to have you here. I am glad you are still working at the VA. I 
am sure the VA police would have loved to have kept you. I know 
you talked a little bit about some of the things that, the 
reasons you left and the law enforcement officer's status, and 
some of the benefits and perhaps better pay and career growth 
opportunities for you.
    What would you say is the number one reform needed to keep 
quality police officers like yourself in the police force?
    Mr. Hunt. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. I 
would say the single most are the 6(c) LEO benefits. We just 
cannot, the VA can just not compete with other Federal 
agencies. When these officers get on with the VA, they realize 
that, frankly, they are getting a raw deal, because they can go 
to every Federal agency and get these benefits and they start 
shopping around.
    Ms. Kiggans. We will work on that. Then how about, Mr. 
Brown? Before my Senate colleagues engaged you about compliance 
with the Compact Act and its required suicide prevention 
training, it is my understanding that a large majority of VA 
police officers lacked the necessary training. What are you 
doing to rectify this and make sure they get that important 
training?
    Mr. Brown. Madam, Chairwoman, thank you for the question. 
Recently, we redesigned our training modules for crisis 
intervention training. We have posted it on a SharePoint, our 
talent management system, in order for us to better aggregate 
the data and be able to provide that data. We do believe that 
our data was low when we initially responded to those 
questions. However, we had to develop ways to make sure we can 
collect that data and provide accurate information.
    We have a series of different things that are happening 
where we are requiring the Medical Center Directors and Network 
Directors to respond in attestation that they have ensured that 
that training has been completed. Those, those responses are 
due early June. We have a requirement for all training for not 
only the 0083 police officer, the 4,200 that Mr. Al Montoya 
quoted, but all 6,000 employees, including the Chiefs, the 
Deputy Chiefs and the supervisory ranks. We anticipate for that 
training to be completed before the end of the fiscal year. It 
requires an interactive, interactive exercise with our 
community law enforcement and our community partners, social 
work and mental health. While many police officers have 
completed the training, the modules, they are coordinating the 
effort to get the community engagement interactive exercise 
completed as well.
    Ms. Kiggans. Who actually conducts that training?
    Mr. Brown. It will be the police officers, our mental 
health partners, our social work partners, along with the 
community partners in the same occupational series or 
occupation as in law enforcement, mental health, and social 
work as well.
    Ms. Kiggans. Part of it includes the simulation, right?
    Mr. Brown. Yes, ma'am. Tabletop simulations, coordination. 
Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Kiggans. Do you feel like the training is effective?
    Mr. Brown. Yes. The training is in addition to what we are 
leaning toward in a full effort, which is having each police 
officer certified in crisis intervention through Crisis 
Intervention Team (CIT) International. That is a larger 
accomplishment that we need to work to achieve.
    Meanwhile, while we are working toward the industry 
standard of crisis intervention training, certification and/or 
instructors, we have the CIT training modules that we have 
vetted through CIT International. It includes behavioral 
health, suicide prevention, deflection training, de-escalation 
training. Every police officer who attends the Law Enforcement 
Training Center as a new incumbent has to complete that 
training. Every police officer will receive that training 
annually, and we will also push toward the certifications and 
instructor certifications as well.
    Ms. Kiggans. Good. Thank you very much for that answer. Now 
I will yield 5 minutes to Ranking Member Mrvan.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Chairwoman. Mr. Montoya, the VA data 
indicated that the average vacancy rate across the Veterans 
Integrated Service Network (VISN) for the department police 
officer is about 31 percent. How does that compare to other 
occupational series across the VA?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, Ranking Member Mrvan, thank you for that 
question. You know, I think when we look at the vacancy rate 
for our police officers, this is one where it is trending in 
the right direction. Right now, we are actually seeing that at 
about 22.1 percent. As far as how it compares to other 
occupations, I will have to take that one back to the record to 
be able to provide to the committee.
    One thing, though, that I am very proud about right now is 
that this last quarter, our quit rate amongst VA police 
officers is at about 1.2 percent. I think we are really on 
track to having that quit rate be less than 6 percent if we 
keep along those lines, which last year that quit rate was just 
about 8 percent.
    Mr. Mrvan. Then to follow up, what has the VA learned from 
the exit surveys from departing police officers? Are there any 
trends in terms of reason why police officers are leaving VA?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, so that is, again, an excellent question. 
I think I will turn back to my previous experience as a Medical 
Center Director, where I actually met with police officers as 
they were deciding to leave Federal service really asked them, 
why. Why, you know, with a mission such as the VA, why would 
you leave? Many times, it was based on pay. It was based on 
opportunities related to pay. For those specific exit survey 
questions, I would actually like to turn to Chief Brown, who I 
think could answer that.
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir. Ranking Member Mrvan, what we noticed 
in 2018 when assuming this position as a new role in VA, we 
realized that we needed to modernize the police force. In old 
Marine Corps terminology, we thought that it would be best to 
tear the current system down to the ground and restart.
    What we created was a modernization effort for each police 
officer to be able to grow from a GS-5, for the lower level, 
those who had minimum experience, to a GS-15, as well as having 
varying pathways in different directions between training, 
physical security, criminal investigations, and operations, to 
give them an opportunity to use a path in their experience and 
what they desire to grow within the organization.
    What we are learning is that that created an opportunity 
for them. People are retained. We are able to send police 
officers to training outside of the Law Enforcement Training 
Center. We have a new partnership with the Federal Law 
Enforcement Training Center, as well, in FLETC.
    We have a partnership with U.S. Department of Defense (DOD) 
for our SkillBridge program, where we go into the military 
within the 6-months of a military personnel Expiration Term of 
Service (ETS) and recruit and retain them into the police 
department. We actually send them to a place that they desire 
to live, and we place them in an area that they want to live in 
with their family. It is a transition and military SkillBridge 
program that we are instituting.
    We are doing many things to be attractive, moving toward 
21st century law enforcement. We are building the ecosystem 
around the troops, having those resources that they desire. We 
are moving in toward energy weapons. We want to make sure that 
they understand the decision they have to make before they send 
the bullet downrange. We want to make sure that we have 
industry standard training available for the troops and be able 
to provide those resources for them so they can want to stay, 
and they want to grow within the VA system.
    Mr. Mrvan. Mr. Hunt, thank you for sharing your experience 
with the committee, and thank you for your service to the VA. 
We greatly appreciate you being here today. Can you share again 
why you decided to leave the VA police force?
    Mr. Hunt. Thank you for the question, Congressman. Yes, 
basically I was taking stock of my career. I would been at the 
VA for 12 years. I enjoyed being a VA police officer. It is, I 
will say, it is an honorable mission.
    As I was taking into account the type of job, the things, 
the requirements, what you are putting--the nature of the work, 
and you realize that your pay and benefits are the same as the 
other employees. Outside, at that time, outside the VA police, 
there was a more opportunity for advancement to move up in your 
career. That opportunity was not there. I made the decision 
that based on that, to move on.
    I did not want to leave the VA. As a veteran, I love 
working in the VA and serving veterans, so I tried to stay 
within the VA, but I had to move out of the police service in 
order to advance my career.
    Mr. Mrvan. If I could, the H.R. 1322, the Law Enforcement 
Officers Equity Act, which I am proud to be a cosponsor, 
expands the definition of Federal law enforcement officer to 
include VA police officers. This would finally correct the 
inequity between the VA and the Federal law enforcement 
personnel with their retirement benefits. Can you speak to how 
this legislation may help retention, the retention of the VA 
police officers?
    Mr. Hunt. Yes. Thank you for the question, Congressman. 
Yes, as I stated earlier, we bring high-quality officers on. We 
put them through this excellent training. The new officers, 
sometimes they do not know these 6(c) benefits exist, or maybe 
new to the Federal police force. They get on VA police, we 
train them, we season them, and then they come to realize, it 
is there, that they are kind of getting a raw deal because 
their other Federal officer counterparts are receiving these 
other benefits that they do not. Then they begin looking to 
those agencies.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you very much. With that, I yield back.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you. The Chair now yields 5 minutes to 
General Bergman.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. A perfect week, 
since it is National Police Week, to have all of you in here. I 
know there must be at least one Marine in the crowd because you 
referenced the Marine Corps. How many military? All Marines, 
Navy, Army, Air Force. All right. No space, no space cadets in 
there yet right? Oh, space guardians. I am sorry.
    All right, well, you know, thanks to all of you and your 
understanding of security beyond the level of what you are 
doing now, because you got some good training in your 
respective services and the responsibility for 400,000 VA 
employees and roughly 7 million annual patients. I am not going 
to be parochial on this, but I want to use as an example lower 
Michigan. Chief Chester, you have got, you are Dingell. Yes? Or 
are you at Ann Arbor?
    Mr. Chester. Detroit, sir. John D. Dingell.
    Mr. Bergman. Dingell. Okay, so you are at Dingell, you are 
downtown Detroit. We have got Ann Arbor VA. We got Battle 
Creek. We got Saginaw in the lower peninsula. Okay. We will not 
even talk about Iron Mountain because, you know, that is a long 
distance.
    When it comes to your ability to recruit and more 
importantly, retain, let us assume for the sake of discussion 
here that you get a good police officer who, let us say they 
are a Dingell and they want to move. They want to go up to 
Saginaw or they want to go to Battle Creek or they want to go 
west. Is it, do they have the, do you have the ability to 
transfer people? Is there a program that exists? Again, this is 
more about retention than it is anybody else. I mean, is that a 
real thing? Or do we need to consider making it a real thing? 
Or how does that help you?
    Mr. Chester. Yes, sir. That is a real thing. We do have 
officers that transfer. It is if I have a vacancy, I will post 
it. Thing is, is that they can apply or we do have a direct 
hire where we can do direct hires where that person can reach 
out to us and submit their resume. I can look at it and then 
from there it is submitted to HR is where they do resume 
review. If they meet the criteria, they can transfer to our 
facility. I am not sure if Mr. Montoya has something else that 
he would like to add.
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, sir. General Bergman, it is always good 
to see you. We do have those authorities in place right now to 
be able to move officers, should they wish to, from facility to 
facility across VA.
    Mr. Bergman. When you do that and when you talk about 
standardization of training, standardization of procedures. If 
they went from, let us say, Dingell to Ann Arbor to Saginaw to 
Battle Creek, using that example, would they see the same 
Standard Operating Procedures (SOPs)?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, so they generally would see the same 
SOPs. I think what is great about this example that you are 
using, as well, is that the organizational structure from VA 
police to VA police department is the same. Right. That is a 
standardized approach that Chief Brown was able to roll out and 
really push across all VA police departments across the 
country.
    Mr. Bergman. How do we then, if we can transfer within and 
you have got your, if you will, your career force, are we able 
to be--where are the limiting factors in VA police force being 
competitive when, let us say, Detroit Police or Ann Arbor 
Police or, you know, Saginaw Police, or Battle Creek Police to, 
you know, keep going down that road? Are we competing? Are we 
losing people to those police departments?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, sir. As we are--thing is that we do lose 
people to those police agencies because part of the issue is 
just say, for instance, with a Detroit Police Department, they 
go from a starting entry pay to top pay within 5 years. With us 
there is the steps where it takes almost 18 years to get to a 
step 10. That is part of the issue also. Like we may have a new 
officer that comes on before he reached top pay to a GS-6, step 
10 is 18 years. For a Detroit Police Officer, for him to go 
from entry level to top pay is 5 years.
    That is part of the issue. That is why we are losing some 
of our police officers that come on board. They get well 
trained, they are highly marketable, but then they go to some 
other agencies where they can reach top pay in 5 years.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay, well, thank you. I see my time is about 
up. I think we may have an opportunity in using the four 
examples of the VA hospitals to do, kind of, a comparison with 
recruiting and retention when it comes to competing with the 
other law enforcement agencies. With that, thank you again for 
all you do and still doing it with a smile on your face and 
helping those vets.
    I yield back.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, General Bergman. The Chair now 
yields 5 minutes to Mr. Pappas.
    Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much, Madam Chair. It is good to 
see you all here. Thank you all for your service and for what 
you do for veterans each and every day. Mr. Montoya, thanks for 
your testimony here. I have to say, you still have a lot of 
fans in New Hampshire. We are grateful for the job that you did 
at the Manchester VA, and I think you have a unique perspective 
here to offer, and it came out in that last exchange, just as 
someone who has been a Medical Center Director who has worked 
with a variety of different personnel at VA, including our 
police forces, and so we appreciate your contributions to this 
discussion.
    Mr. Hunt, maybe I could turn to you, and I think what you 
provided the Committee was perhaps one of the best examples of 
just testimony on the unique role of the VA police force. I am 
wondering if you could chat a little bit more with us about the 
training that prepares recruits to come into this unique 
situation. Do you feel that it is adequate and are there any 
other tools that Congress can help provide, as we think 
specifically about the issue of veteran suicide to help equip 
our VA police officers what they see each and every day?
    Mr. Hunt. Thank you for the question, Congressman. Yes. The 
thing that comes to mind for me are mental hygiene hold orders. 
Those vary by state. In West Virginia, for example, where I 
worked, if there was a suicidal veteran, and the staff reports 
to me as a police officer or even other staff, hey, this 
veteran, he is threatening suicide. He is leaving, he is 
walking out the door. I do not have the, as a VA police officer 
or any police officer really in West Virginia, have the 
authority to stop him from leaving, and neither do the staff. 
In West Virginia specifically, it requires a mental hygiene 
order from a mental hygiene commissioner. Once that is issued, 
then we can go intervene with the veteran. At that point, there 
may have been--a tragedy may have taken place.
    If there was some type of legislation that the VA could use 
VA wide, how to handle, you know, hold orders for suicidal 
veterans, I think that would be a great tool for the veterans, 
the police, and the staff.
    Mr. Pappas. I appreciate that. You mentioned in your 
testimony the expense of sending new officers to the Law 
Enforcement Training Center. You know, that is a cost and an 
investment that is lost if an officer leaves, say, within the 
first few weeks or first few months of their service. I am 
wondering if it is reasonable to believe that other 
investments, like in retirement benefits, some of the other 
provisions that you mentioned in your testimony are smart with 
respect to the retention issue that we are struggling with?
    Mr. Hunt. Thank you for the question, Congressman. Yes, I 
would--the short answer is yes. Higher retention rate equals 
less money being spent on training. I said earlier that money 
comes from the VA medical center's budget. The higher the 
retention at the hospital, the more money the hospital has to 
spend out of its own budget to send the police officers to be 
trained. Yes, in my opinion, yes.
    Mr. Pappas. Yes. Mr. Montoya, I do not know if you want to 
reflect on that at all, in terms of where we stand with 
retention, in particular. Have we seen any progress being made 
in terms of the statistics the last few years?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes. Congressman Pappas, it is also good to 
see you. It has been a long time, but certainly enjoyed my time 
there up in New Hampshire. In my oral testimony, I mentioned, 
referenced our retention efforts and the work that has happened 
so far. I actually think that we have been doing quite a good 
job since 2022. When we think back to 2022, it was a hard 
recruitment and retention time for VA police officers.
    Thanks to Troy Brown and the Chiefs all coming together, 
doing the Blueprint for VA police. It really allowed us to 
bring forward those tools that we needed to decrease the 
retention. What we have now is 7.4 percent. Our police officers 
increased by 7.4 percent in Fiscal Year 2023, 5.1 percent in 
Fiscal Year 2024. When we look at retention in Fiscal Year 
2024, it showed a positive trend, with losses being 20 percent 
less than Fiscal Year 2023. Now, compare that to 2022, and it 
is actually 25 percent less. It definitely shows that the 
Blueprint that has been created along with the recruitment 
retention tools is definitely making an impact.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks for that. I hope you would also 
agree that some of the other provisions that Mr. Hunt talked 
about, some of the legislation that is pending, could also move 
the needle with respect to recruitment and retention.
    Mr. Montoya. Yes. The way I look at it, both in my role now 
and in my previous role as a Medical Center Director, is that 
you have to use all the tools in your toolbox to be able to 
recruit and retain your staff. Whether that be the special 
incentives or retention or special salary rates, certainly 
everything that we have available is what we are throwing at 
the retention issues and recruitment issues that we have. 
Certainly anything extra would help toward that retention.
    Mr. Pappas. Well, thanks very much. Mr. Brown, you had 
mentioned about some responses that were due in June. I know I 
am out of time now, but just to highlight that, I would 
certainly be interested in seeing that, along with the other 
subcommittee members here.
    Mr. Brown. Yes, Congressman.
    Mr. Pappas. Thanks very much. I yield back.
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you. The Chair now yields 5 minutes to 
Mr. Luttrell.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Chester and Ms. Soto, Chiefs of Police at 
your medical facilities, you are the senior officers at those 
places, correct?
    Ms. Soto. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell. Who is your touchpoint when you go up into 
the organization at Veterans Affairs? Would that be Mr. Brown?
    Ms. Soto. You go through our VISN Chiefs and it ultimately 
goes to Mr. Brown.
    Mr. Luttrell. Mr. Brown, you are the ultimate touchpoint in 
Veterans Affairs?
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell. Do you communicate down and inside the 
organizations at every single VA facility across the country?
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir. Absolutely.
    Mr. Luttrell. We have out of 1300 or, excuse me, 4500 
officers across the country. Roughly 1300 completed the suicide 
prevention awareness training?
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell. When we talk about crisis intervention that 
they have to perform annually----
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell [continuing]. do you have the numbers with you 
on how many officers have completed the crisis intervention 
program to date?
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir. As I mentioned earlier, every VA 
police officer and new incumbent has to complete the CIT 
training during the POST course, the police officer 
standardized training course.
    Mr. Luttrell. If they do it annually, so they have to do it 
every single year. Even the current police officers?
    Mr. Brown. Current police officers, the number is, the hard 
number is 1295, which we responded to. Also, we had just 
recently----
    Mr. Luttrell. 1295 for suicide prevention. Is crisis 
intervention and suicide prevention the same thing?
    Mr. Brown. It is included in the module, sir. Yes, sir. Our 
behavioral health sciences and suicide prevention is all 
combined inside of our Law Enforcement Training Center training 
during that police officer training certification. It is a 400-
hour certification course to become a police officer.
    Mr. Luttrell. At the VA facility that I am--that is in my 
district, I get a lot of feedback from my veterans about red-
flag laws----
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Luttrell [continuing]. inside the VA. Who is 
responsible for creating the red-flag laws that exist inside 
the VA in each individual medical center? Mr. Montoya.
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, sir. I will have to take that question 
for the record and come back to you.
    Mr. Luttrell. We do not have a name for this specific----
    Mr. Montoya. I actually do not know who creates the red-
flag, sir. I know exactly what you are talking about in medical 
records, but I do not know the person that does that.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. I see this and I, in absolute respect, 
in your services and thank you for both sides, military and 
now, and I can only imagine the complexities of everything that 
you deal with every single day.
    When I see the numbers of the absence of training when it 
comes to crisis intervention and you are dealing with a veteran 
in distress. Okay? These red-flag laws, and I have been trying 
to get to the bottom of them myself and I want to talk to the 
person directly responsible for creating those regulations. 
Okay, Mr. Montoya, if you can give me that answer, I would 
really appreciate it, because I see a systemic--I do not know 
if it is systemic, but I see a problem in my area that the red-
flag law seems to be once they are hung, they are never unhung. 
I have veterans that are sometimes in duress when they are 
engaging in the veteran community, in the VA facility. 
Obviously, the ones that they are going to engage with are the 
officers. If the officers are not completely trained up on 
crisis intervention, are they engaging with those veterans 
correctly? That is a problem, and I want to make sure that that 
problem goes away. Does that make sense?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes, it totally makes sense, sir. We certainly 
will come back to you with the information you requested.
    Mr. Luttrell. I would love to have an answer next week, if 
you do not mind, because I can assure you----
    Mr. Montoya. I will try----
    Mr. Luttrell. When I go home--every time I go home--I can 
promise you I have some wonderful individuals in my district 
that make sure that this is the one thing that I am engaging 
with as a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, and I want 
to get to the bottom of this so I can answer their question 
thoroughly.
    Mr. Montoya. Absolutely.
    Mr. Luttrell. If this is--if the--if the red-flag is 
something that, if we do not have a sound, concrete answer on 
exactly what--how this is playing out and it is different in 
every facility, that is a bad thing. Okay?
    Mr. Montoya. Yes. I will tell you, I am going to put on my 
hat as a former Medical Center Director. I do recall, actually, 
at all the medical centers that I was at, that there was a 
disruptive behavior committee (DBC). All of the instances that 
come up from a veteran that may have a potential flag or does 
have a flag goes through that DBC is what it is called, that 
has clinicians on it, providers on that, and they make that 
decision based on all of the information that they have in that 
veteran's----
    Mr. Luttrell. A single red flag can last 2 years. Correct?
    Mr. Montoya. It actually can be removed from the record. 
The process to be able to do that is to go back through that 
disruptive behavior committee, to be able to have them look at 
it again to make sure that there is not a threat.
    Mr. Luttrell. Okay. Madam Chair, I yield back. Thank you.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Mr. Luttrell. The Chair now 
recognizes Mr. Rosendale for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank 
you all for coming in today. Really do appreciate it. I am 
proud to support law enforcement and believe that the VA law 
enforcement plays an essential role in ensuring the security of 
veterans and the VA facilities. We have seen a troubling 
increase in crime at VA facilities. Despite the number of 
veterans frequenting VA facilities having gone down due to 
telehealth and care in the community. Policing is a hard job 
that requires courage, strength, and grit. I have seen 
firsthand the important work that police officers in Montana 
and across the country do to make our community safer.
    Additionally, we must ensure that police officers' Second 
Amendment rights are not being infringed upon when they receive 
health care at the VA facilities. I am working on legislation 
that would bolster the Second Amendment rights of all citizens 
at the VA, whether they be private citizens or law enforcement, 
as a direct result of requests from patients that are currently 
attending there. They think that their rights are being 
infringed upon, and we have recognized that they actually have 
been. There is those who would try to make it even more 
difficult for the patients to be able to feel comfortable in 
exercising their Second Amendment rights.
    Mr. Brown, the testimony that you provided mentioned 
negative media coverage and public sentiment toward law 
enforcement can deter individuals from pursuing careers in 
policing. Mr. Montoya also stated negative perception, just 
said, negative perception, as a major hurdle in maintaining an 
adequate law enforcement presence at the VA. I am sure that 
this also contributes to the 8 percent quit rate that you also 
referenced.
    I have just got a couple of simple questions for you, Mr. 
Brown. Do you think rhetoric calling for defunding the police 
harms recruitment?
    Mr. Brown. The word defunding seems harmful. There is a 
misunderstanding----
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Do you think that saying, and I quote, 
``law enforcement does not protect or save lives, they often 
threaten and take them?''
    Mr. Brown. I do not agree.
    Mr. Rosendale. Harms recruiting?
    Mr. Brown. Can you repeat the question?
    Mr. Rosendale. Do you think that someone saying law 
enforcement does not protect or save lives, they often threaten 
and take them. Do you think that that statement harms 
recruiting?
    Mr. Brown. It does.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Do you think saying policing in our 
country is inherently and intentionally racist, harms 
recruiting efforts?
    Mr. Brown. Absolutely.
    Mr. Rosendale. Do you think district attorneys deciding not 
to prosecute armed robberies and allowing violent criminals to 
remain on the street harms recruiting?
    Mr. Brown. Absolutely.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. I really appreciate that. Would you 
also agree that it is reprehensible that these are all quotes 
and actions that have been taken by prominent Democrat 
politicians in the past few years?
    Mr. Brown. I would agree with politicians.
    Mr. Rosendale. We should be praising law enforcement, not 
tearing them down. Mr. Brown, I have heard several complaints 
that when VA Medical Centers spend tens of thousands of dollars 
to send new officers to Law Enforcement Training Center in 
Arkansas, if they do return to the same Medical Center, the VA 
Medical Center, at all, they are often dejected and looking for 
another opportunity. Do you think that law enforcement training 
center is somewhat responsible for VA's abysmal retention 
stats?
    Mr. Brown. I would like to respond. Thank you for the 
question. We have recently looked at the Law Enforcement 
Training Center, partnering with them as our educational 
institution, modify the training institution, in Fiscal Year 
2025, we will have them expand their territory from Little Rock 
to other parts of the country where training is needed. When 
that team goes out to those areas, we have reduced the amount 
of expense or cost to the course.
    Mr. Rosendale. Sure. Do you think that rather than just 
going out and building a new mousetrap, if you will, that if 
there is adequate or equal training can be undertaken in other 
parts of the country that is easier for officers to attend and 
less costly for the VA Medical Centers to send them to? Should 
not that be able to be utilized?
    Mr. Brown. Yes, sir. We are on our second pilot as we stand 
today. In Orlando, the second group of police officers in this 
pilot would graduate June the 5th.
    Mr. Rosendale. Good deal. Thank you very much for your 
answers. Again, thank the committee very much for the panel for 
coming in today. I yield back, Madam Chair.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Mr. Rosendale, and thank you so 
much again to our first panel of witnesses for coming today. I 
appreciate the candor and your testimony and your willingness 
to participate. I, just again, a very happy National Police 
Week to all of you. Thank you so much for your service, not 
only in the military, but to our veterans. We really appreciate 
you all being here and taking the time to travel.
    I call the committee to a 2-minute recess, and we will 
prepare for our second panel.
    [Recess.]
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you again for our panel for being here 
today, testifying before us. On our second panel, we have Mr. 
Kapua Conley, the Regional President of Sentara Healthcare, 
based out of Hampton, Virginia. Mr. Chuck Dowd, the Vice 
President of the Public Safety Broadband Technology 
Association, and Mr. John Retzer, the Assistant National 
Legislative Director for Disabled American Veterans (DAV).
    Will the witnesses please stand and raise their right hand?
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Ms. Kiggans. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you 
are about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing 
but the truth? Thank you. You may be seated. Let the record 
reflect that the witnesses answered the affirmative.
    Mr. Conley, I appreciate you coming here from Hampton 
Roads. You are now recognized for 5 minutes to provide your 
testimony.

                   STATEMENT OF KAPUA CONLEY

    Mr. Conley. Thank you, Chairwoman Kiggans. Members of the 
committee, thank you for the privilege of addressing you today 
on one of Sentara Health's top priorities, the safety of our 
employees, patients, and all the visitors who walk into our 
facilities.
    My name is Kapua Conley, Regional President for Sentara 
Health. Sentara is an integrated delivery network with 12 
hospitals in the mid Atlantic, a health plan, and more than 
30,000 employees. Our largest hospital is a level one trauma 
center, just miles from Naval Station Norfolk, and we serve 
many active duty, veterans, and their families.
    Keeping our employees, patients and visitors safe is a 
responsibility we take very seriously. As you will hear from my 
comments today. From my perspective, security is both a feeling 
and a reality, and they are not the same. Making our employees 
and patients feel safe is just as important as keeping them 
safe. The statistics around workplace safety and healthcare in 
the healthcare environment are staggering. We know that 
healthcare workers are 5 times more likely to experience 
violence compared to those in any other private profession.
    Outside of law enforcement, the emergency department (ED) 
is the second most dangerous workplace. The U.S. Bureau of 
Labor and Statistics found that healthcare workers account for 
73 percent of injuries from workplace violence. The threat to 
nurses, physicians, and other healthcare workers has been on 
the rise since 2011. Those statistics are a reality on the 
front lines of healthcare. 64 handguns, 1,204 knives, 158 box 
cutters, 84 tasers and two machetes. This is an inventory of 
weapons intercepted at the doors of emergency departments in 
just two Sentara hospitals within the past year. In total, 
security personnel have prevented nearly 2,484 weapons from 
entering Sentara Norfolk General and Sentara Virginia Beach 
General hospitals during that time. Our security team seeks to 
first, prevent and deter violence within our facilities. 
Second, we seek to prevent--we seek to protect our employees, 
patients and visitors from harm or injury should a violent 
incident occur.
    To prevent and deter violence, Sentara has implemented 
sophisticated, state-of-the-art concealed weapon detection 
systems. Over the next 2 years, every hospital will have the 
system in place. When our Chief Executive Officer (CEO), Dennis 
Mathis sat down with some of our frontline employees to discuss 
this initiative, he was concerned about pushback as hospitals 
are havens of healing. One nurse reminded Dennis that our 
children walk through metal detectors every day going to 
school. This is now our new norm.
    In addition, Sentara has implemented a visitor management 
system. This allows us to know who is entering our facility and 
whether they are authorized to do so, reducing criminal acts 
and workplace violence. Also, in addition to the thousands of 
cameras located throughout our hospitals, we have personal 
duress alarms, and a new emergency notification system to 
better communicate with our teams and take proactive action. 
All frontline employees are trained on de-escalation and 
Sentara's implemented cutting edge active shooter training, 
including full scale active shooter drill involving all our 
emergency services community partners.
    To ensure the highest level of safety, Sentara recognizes 
the need to be proactive and not reactive. Each and every 
member of our team is critical to the safety of all. This 
responsibility to keep each other safe is ingrained in our 
culture and built into our daily protocols, training, and 
technology. Every nurse has a capability and responsibility to 
flag patient medical records for individuals who exhibit 
threatening behavior. Our support staff follow the buddy system 
when serving these patients. Security patrols keep a close 
watch on units with potentially violent patients, and they make 
sure the flags on our electronic medical records (EMRs) match 
signage on the units. Patient flags are evaluated every 12 
hours and removed if a patient is no longer a threat.
    Multidisciplinary core threat assessment teams in each 
division review all workplace violent incidences, ensure use of 
protocol--ensure use of flags, analyze trends and root causes, 
and recommend additional training and protocols to maximize 
safety. These teams rally on short notice when there is an 
urgent need for a coordinated and decisive response to 
potential threats. Our in house security professionals are 
essential to our strategic approach to safety. Sentara is 
training an elite team of security office to receive 
certification by the Virginia Department of Criminal Justice 
Services, and who are implementing video magistrate rooms that 
permit police and staff to directly link with the magistrate to 
provide evidence and swear out arrest warrants in real time for 
a criminal event that has or may occur.
    In conclusion, a year-over-year review has showed that we 
have dramatically decreased workplace violence by 19 percent. 
This proves that a comprehensive strategic approach toward 
safety can positively impact the well-being of our employees 
and our patients that we serve. Again, security is both a 
feeling and a reality, and they are not the same. This needs to 
be taken into consideration when we are looking at our own 
veterans' medical facilities. Sentara stands ready to 
collaborate and to partner with the VA system on how to best 
assess, support, and implement best practices in safety and 
security in these facilities. We have made an investment in 
safety which has returns beyond a dollar amount. I hope the VA 
system will do the same.
    I am happy to take any questions at the appropriate time.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kapua Conley Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you. Mr. Conley, Mr. Dowd, you are now 
recognized for 5 minutes to provide your testimony.

                    STATEMENT OF CHUCK DOWD

    Mr. Dowd. Thank you, madam chair, ranking member. I am 
Chuck Dowd. I am a retired assistant chief from the New York 
City Police Department. I did 34 and a half years there, the 
last 12 and a half years as I ran the New York City 911 system 
in all things communications. I am now a part of the Public 
Safety Broadband Technology Association, which is comprised of 
the Nation's leading public safety executives and associations, 
of all professional backgrounds of our leaders. All include 
extensive experience with the knowledge of technology related 
to public safety. Our diverse group of executives understand 
public safety needs and requirements, and most importantly, in 
the context of this hearing, those related to public safety 
communications.
    In 2012, Congress passed legislation to create a nationwide 
public safety broadband network that is known as FirstNet, and 
it exists today. It is run and managed by U.S. Department of 
Commerce and the--the FirstNet authority, which exists inside 
Commerce. It has been a tremendous success, in my view. They 
have close to 6 million members of public safety utilizing the 
network today, and 26,000 public safety organizations.
    Modern technology for communications today, one of the 
difficulties that we were experiencing during September 11th 
and those kinds of events was the simple fact that we could not 
communicate with each other. Interoperability was always 
problematic. We operated kind of in geographic bubbles where we 
could interoperate. Ultimately, you know, when--when you went 
beyond that bubble, there was no capability of communications. 
It is been well documented the difficulties during September 
11th between the police department and the fire department 
unable to communicate with each other. FirstNet, in my view, 
solves that problem.
    The Public Safety Broadband association exists to help 
support all public safety organizations in utilizing the 
technology that is been developed that can be run through that 
FirstNet network. That is a nationwide network. When it comes 
to the VA, I understand, they are using FirstNet, but I also 
believe that it is--it is a capability that can be further used 
because there are so many capabilities, so many applications 
that can be used on FirstNet that could be used toward making 
communications for the VA far more successful than they even 
are today.
    I know that in our experience in New York City, a very 
complex communications environment for public safety. Dozens of 
public safety agencies, either State, Federal, or local, 
functioning inside the city of New York or operating inside New 
York, we were of the--we were of the position and always 
allowed for those agencies to operate on all frequencies as 
long as they followed a few simple guidelines. You know, that 
is something that could be replicated every place else. If the 
VA police are struggling with communications with other--with 
their public safety partners locally, that is something that 
the Public Safety Broadband Technology Association can help 
with.
    One of the things that needs to happen in order for that to 
be successful and critical, and this was missing on September 
11th, is incident management protocols. You can have all the 
technology you want, but if public safety organizations are not 
working together, not setting up protocols, not drilling 
together, not doing tabletop exercises together when there is 
an emergency, you cannot start that there. That has to happen 
before. That was one of the lessons learned out of the 
September 11th attacks. Again, the Public Safety Broadband 
Technology Association can help with that.
    One of the things that we could do, for example, is we 
could introduce the VA police and other Federal police agencies 
into the International association chief of police committees. 
There are a number of committees that they could work with, and 
so, that would--like the Technology and communications 
committee inside them where they could be on that committee and 
share and understand the common problems that affect public 
safety communications on a much more broad scale.
    I am going to stop there. Happy to answer any questions you 
have, and again, I thank you for the opportunity to speak 
today.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Chuck Dowd Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you very much, Mr. Dowd, for your 
testimony and technology you advocate for our police officers 
nationwide, including in my district. Mr. Retzer, you are 
recognized now for 5 minutes to provide your testimony.

                    STATEMENT OF JON RETZER

    Mr. Retzer. Thank you Chairwoman Kiggins, Ranking member 
Mrvan, and members of the subcommittee. DAV is pleased to offer 
our perspectives on the VA police force and security issues.
    First, DAV would like to express our deep gratitude to the 
VA police and security support teams for their unwavering 
dedication in serving and protecting our veteran community. VA 
police officers are responsible for deterring, stopping, and 
investigating crimes and maintaining order within Veterans 
Benefits Administration (VBA), Veterans Health Administration 
(VHA), and National Cemetery Administration (NCA). With a total 
workforce of over 471,000 employees who provide services and 
care to millions of veterans a year.
    The VA healthcare system is encompassed of 172 VA medical 
centers and 1,138 community-based outpatient sites of care. 
Unfortunately, a community this large comes with security and 
safety issues. The VA 2023 annual performance plan reported the 
number of violent crimes committed on VA properties steadily 
increased year-after-year, with 3,131 incidences in 2018 and 
6,538 in 2021.
    In February 2023, the VA Office of Inspector General 
assessed 70 VA medical facilities to determine if they met VA 
security requirements. The OIG noted VA generally complied with 
security training requirements and demonstrated general 
emergency response planning and preparedness. However, it 
identified multiple security vulnerabilities and deficiencies 
at the 70 facilities, to include unlocked doors in sensitive 
areas, insufficient police officers, and increased vacancies 
and interoperable security cameras. Staffing challenges were 
considered a significant factor to security issues identified, 
particularly the lack of visible and active police presence. 
Having police and security personnel presence at facility 
entrances acts as determined to crime and comports with overall 
security of facility.
    Addressing the increase of violent crimes on VA properties 
will require oversight, identifying the unique challenges and 
security weaknesses that exist. It involves emphasizing 
training and implementing processes and procedures and 
protocols to address the privacy and safety of all veterans, 
with a special emphasis on our women veterans who use VA for 
services. It is important that we prioritize equipping VA 
police with quality and functional equipment to mitigate 
potential needs and threats.
    Madam Chair, Congress should pass legislation to ensure 
that VA police force has adequate staffing, resources and 
training to meet the special needs of each VA facility and its 
respective locations. Security and safety should be 
standardized, tailored, and measured. VA needs to prioritize 
facilities or areas with higher incidents or violence or 
security breaches.
    Madam Chair, DAV is pleased to support H.R. 3504, the VA 
Medical Security Report Act. This legislation would require VA 
to conduct an annual survey on security at each VA medical 
facilities. This bill would also require the secretary to 
provide an action plan describing how the department would 
address any identified security weaknesses.
    Another security bill referred to the subcommittee for 
consideration is H.R. 7765, the VA Security Screening Pilot 
Program Act. This legislation aims to implement a pilot program 
for a weapon screening technology at VA medical centers. We 
understand that VA is currently piloting a similar program at a 
few facilities. We certainly appreciate the intent of this 
legislation and the goal to continue safeguarding veterans, 
employees, visitors, and VA's properties.
    Finally, security challenges at VA facilities should be 
done in a manner that avoids creating unnecessary barriers to 
care for veterans, especially aging and service-disabled 
veterans who are more likely to have medical devices, 
prosthetics, assisted equipment, and even service dogs. As 
such, it is critically important to mandate robust consultation 
with veterans and veterans service organizations before 
finalizing any changes to security protocols at VA healthcare 
facilities. Veterans understand the importance of security from 
our times in the armed forces in conducting and sustaining 
operations for this Nation. It is only fitting that our Nation, 
in return, provides the injured and ill veterans secure 
sanctuary for internal and external threats when seeking 
healthcare at VA facilities.
    In closing, we appreciate the subcommittee's attention to 
the issue of security and urge continued oversight to address 
identified areas needing improvement. Chairwoman Kiggans, this 
concludes my testimony. I am pleased to answer questions you 
and members of the committee may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Jon Retzer Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you very much, Mr. Retzer. I now yield 
as much time as I may consume for my questions. Let us see.
    Mr. Conley, we will start with you. Thank you so much again 
for making the trip from Hampton Roads. I know that the drive 
is long. I appreciate you being here, and thank you for serving 
patients, including veterans, from Virginia's second district. 
My district chief of staff recently had twins at one of your 
Sentara facilities, and he certainly appreciated the great care 
and support he received.
    I know that Sentara makes a great effort to keep its 
patients and staff safe. I know that we have championed 
legislation especially to look out for our healthcare workers. 
We know that not just nurses, and as a nurse practitioner, it 
is a privilege to advocate for them. All of our healthcare 
professionals and staff we know are at risk, and we are well 
aware of some of those statistics. Thank you for reminding us 
that they put their lives on the line too, just being in that 
environment of the emergency room, dealing with patients in 
crisis. I appreciate all the work you do to keep them safe. We 
will continue to do our part as well.
    Can you talk a little bit about what some of the advantages 
are to having your own in house security team as opposed to a 
contracted service like other facilities have?
    Mr. Conley. Yes, I think for us, it is the command and 
control and developing strategies that are unique to your 
specific facilities without having layers upon layers and 
contracts upon contracts. I think for us, it makes complete 
sense to be able to have those resources in house, to be able 
to pipeline develop them without the barriers of going through 
a third party, right.
    I think one, from a strategic perspective, being able to 
group your own employees to protect the staff and the 
communities that you serve. I think also it is just--and just 
from an economic standpoint, it is more economic.
    Ms. Kiggans. Are you fully staffed? As far as workforce 
challenges, do you have the security staff that you need?
    Mr. Conley. Yes, I think, you know, obviously that kind of 
waxes and wanes in a little bit. I think our average vacancy is 
a little less than 10 percent, but that is a marked 
improvement. We have seen over the last 24 months intentional 
recruitment effort to bring in more security staff. I think 
part of it was us making sure that we were offering a fair 
market pay grade, pay scale, but then also allowing individual 
professional growth within those individual job codes. I think 
we have done a yeoman's job in trying to reach out to the 
community, better understand what their needs are, and we have 
seen a remarkable improvement with our vacancy rates.
    Ms. Kiggans. Does your security team do any training with 
our local law enforcement or use any of those facilities? We 
just had some Federal money go to Creed's training facility.
    Mr. Conley. Yes. I will tell you one thing that is--and I 
appreciate with all the security agencies within Hampton Roads, 
and I think it is fairly consistent across--across the country. 
At times, healthcare can be somewhat competitive. At the end of 
the day, the security folks are really good at cross 
pollinating best practices across different healthcare systems 
and across different Federal agencies. I think it is very 
relationship driven. There is a lot of cross discussion, a 
cross communication and planning together to make sure that 
there is coordination within the regions that they serve.
    Ms. Kiggans. Then, as the security team, the people that 
you call when you have a person who is having a mental health 
crisis? We frequently have talked in our spaces just about the 
utilization of law enforcement officers to wait with these 
patients while they are waiting for placement. We know that 
wait time can be significant, sometimes even a day, up to 24 
hours or more----
    Mr. Conley. Yes.
    Ms. Kiggans [continuing]. and that we are utilizing, a lot 
of times law enforcement officers, then taking them out of 
their role where there might be needed for security. Who is 
providing that type of security for those patients in the 
clinic?
    Mr. Conley. Yes, I think, depending on the response, the 
initial response might be security individuals. As that 
assessment comes down to maybe that individual's having a 
health crisis, we will transition that over to a clinician or 
someone that is trained to sit with that individual so we do 
not occupy security forces 24/7 on one individual.
    Ms. Kiggans. Is it your in house security team that 
provides, if you did have a patient that was transferred from a 
jail facility to be inpatient, then they would--that would 
might require armed guard. Would that be your security chamber 
or would that be an outside police?
    Mr. Conley. Outside agencies.
    Ms. Kiggans. Okay, great.
    Mr. Conley. Now we might--we might supplement as needed to 
ensure the right security level protocols, but typically that 
is the outside agency bringing in their security team.
    Ms. Kiggans. Great. Then how long is your onboarding 
process for new security personnel?
    Mr. Conley. Typically, they will probably go through a 6-
week orientation. It is on the job. They will do the 
traditional compliance onboarding, and then they are typically 
buddied with a preceptor for a 6 week timeframe and then 
reevaluated and assess whether they are able to go off on their 
own or they need some more additional training to be 
functional.
    Ms. Kiggans. Otherwise very integrated into the culture of 
your hospital. They go through the same orientation?
    Mr. Conley. Yes, 100 percent integrated culture. Going back 
to your initial question, that is also the value in keeping our 
security staff our own. It is really about the culture of 
Sentara and making sure--sure they can reflect our core mission 
and values.
    Ms. Kiggans. Can you speak briefly just to some examples of 
technology solutions that have enhanced security at your 
facility?
    Mr. Conley. Yes. You know, during my statement, I talked 
about our weapon detection system. That is something we 
implemented about a year ago. It is an Artificial Intelligence 
(AI) based technology, so it is not your typical metal 
detector. It is actually scanning individuals, walking, free 
flow. We are--but we do--we did implement that about a year 
ago, and it is been a resounding success not only from keeping 
weapons coming in, but the feeling of safety for our employees. 
You know, they see that, they feel safe.
    We have implemented--we have implemented a visitor badging 
system, so anyone coming in must have an ID, and we are able to 
track that individual as they move through the facility. The 
eventual evolution of that technology is it will integrate into 
our EMR so if a nurse wants to fly flag someone on the floor, 
it will come down to the entrance and that person may not be 
allowed to come in. That is an example of technology.
    We are also right now going through the process of 
evaluating mobile parking lot cameras with some AI 
functionality and integrating that into local law enforcement 
as well.
    Ms. Kiggans. Very good. Thank you. Let us see, Mr. Dowd, I 
understand FirstNet Technology is currently being used in 
Virginia second district. Could you tell me exactly where it is 
in use? Do you know? Is it at the VA facility or----
    Mr. Dowd. It is my understanding it is being used fairly 
broadly by the VA police.
    Ms. Kiggans. At the Hampton medical office?
    Mr. Dowd. I could not tell you which specific locations, 
no.
    Ms. Kiggans. Gotcha. Okay, and let us see. We often hear 
from VA police officers that they are having difficulty 
communicating with local law enforcement during emergencies. 
Can you describe how FirstNet would be used by VA police to 
solve and resolve this issue?
    Mr. Dowd. It is a ubiquitous technology, it is the same 
technology that we all use on our cell phones every day. It is 
completely operable. It is really not so much about the 
technology, it is about the protocols that are established 
between, you know, State, local, and the VA police to cooperate 
together.
    I mentioned earlier, you know, the problem of September 
11th so much was not a communications technology issue as it 
was an incident management issue. You know, there were no real 
meaningful protocols in place for police, fire, EMS to 
interoperate on a major incident. That has changed dramatically 
around the country. Those types of protocols are available for 
the VA police. FirstNet can facilitate that. You still need to 
have the outreach, and I would suggest from the VA to state and 
local authorities. You want to do things like participate in, 
you know, if there are, you know, emergency exercise drills, 
like mass casualty drills, the VA should be there. By the way, 
that would go beyond the VA to other Federal agencies as well.
    Without--without those protocols, without those 
familiarities, without regularly--have regular contact with 
your state and local folks, the technology facilitates and 
makes your situation easier, but without those touch points, 
you do not want to wait for the emergency to get familiar with 
your counterparts in state and local and vice versa.
    Ms. Kiggans. Is that one of the services that FirstNet 
offers is helping to establish those protocols and making----
    Mr. Dowd. No, but again, my organization helps with that. 
That is something we do. Again, there are organizations like 
the International Association of Chiefs of Police, Major Cities 
Chiefs Association, they all can afford opportunities for that 
type of outreach and assistance.
    Again, I mentioned just from a communications perspective, 
the IACP, International association chiefs of Police has a 
technology and committee, technology, and communications 
committee, and it is existed for over 40 years. I know in the 
past there have been members on that committee from Federal 
entities, and there is no reason why the VA police should not 
and could not have a representative on that.
    Ms. Kiggans. I agree. Let us see. Then, Mr. Retzer, one 
question for you. What sort of things does your staff hear from 
veterans about security at the facilities they visit? Good and 
bad.
    Mr. Retzer. Thank you. Thank you for that question. Our 
membership, being that they really rely on the VA healthcare, 
we have in overall, they are very satisfied with the VA 
healthcare and also the safety components that are there. As 
you know, we as veterans, we are accustomed to the world of 
security. We understand the requirements there. Our officers in 
uniform, we look at them as peer to peer, so they bring that 
comfort because we know many of them are veterans themselves. 
That peer to peer connection is building that bond, building 
that culture. We know that they understand our culture, so 
there is definitely a sense of security that is there. They 
feel physically and, you know, emotionally safe.
    However, we do have a group of our population that are 
still challenged with that. That is our women veterans, that is 
our minorities, and LGBTQ+, obviously, that there is a cultural 
competency that needs to be educated and trained on and how to 
address those issues, along with putting it together with the 
unfortunateness of individuals now dealing with their mental 
health, of military sexual trauma, being trauma victims, or 
even post traumatic stress disorder issues that they are 
dealing with. We really rely on our officers--and they are 
doing a great job out there.
    I can tell you, like in Minneapolis VA Medical center, when 
I go there, they actually are talking to our veterans, and they 
are actually, if they are Marines, they are uh [sic], each 
other. They are doing that thing. It is really good to see that 
partnership. They are out there being visible, and that is very 
important for us.
    Ms. Kiggans. That is great. Good. Thank you so much. Now I 
yield as much time as he may consume to Ranking Member Mrvan.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you, Chairwoman. Mr. Retzer, as you know 
from too many heartbreaking stories, veterans often visit VA 
facilities when they are in physical and emotional distress. As 
we heard from Mr. Hunt in the first panel, VA police officers 
are often asked to perform a wide range of duties, many of 
which may be untraditional for police officers. From your view, 
what role do VA police play in veterans receiving care?
    Mr. Retzer. Like I was sharing with Madam chair, it was 
said they are our peer to peer. They are there to cover our 
six, and it is really good to know because they are veterans. 
When I say cover our six, we really feel that way because of 
the fact is we no longer have to do what we were in military, 
suck it up and drive on. It gives us a chance to go and take 
care of ourselves while we know we have those who are trained 
well to take care of us.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Why is it so important for the perspective 
of veterans and veterans service organizations to be central in 
any proposed changes in security at the VA facilities?
    Mr. Retzer. Well, I think one of the most important things 
is veterans and veteran service organizations. We are extremely 
proud of the work that the Department of veterans affairs does. 
We rely on them for a multitude of things from benefit services 
and healthcare services. What we see is that we appreciate the 
veterans affairs. Being transparent is so important that they 
can be transparent with us so we can share the concerns of our 
health issues that may have impact with screening measures or 
personal measures.
    One of the things is when our population is going to VA 
care, we have hundreds of thousands every day going to get 
care. When they are going through the screening process, that 
is not a concern for them, but it is the way it is done. We 
want to make sure that they are not creating barriers, because 
many of our veterans with their injuries and illnesses have 
barriers with different types of prosthetics, medical devices 
that come with them, even pacemakers, certain devices are not 
good for them to go through. The screening process will create, 
you know, lengthy wait times to get into the building, and it 
can also raise anxieties for those who already have mental 
health issues.
    That is a perspective that we would like to be able to 
share, and veterans should be able to share that, to talk about 
what that feels like if these processes and procedures were put 
into place. For example, you know, our metal detection 
machines, scooters, and wheelchairs typically are not equipped 
properly for them to be able to go through the detection 
without them having some type of complication. There is not 
always an ability for someone who has a loss or loss of use of 
their lower extremity to get out of that vehicle that they are 
using to get in. There has to be very thoughtful processes on 
how to mitigate and to help that system through.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. As we have heard today, VA has begun 
piloting weapons detection technology at the VAMC's across the 
country. Have you heard anything from your membership regarding 
this pilot?
    Mr. Retzer. No, we have not heard anything directly with 
that.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Following up, veteran suicide is top 
priority for the committee and I know an issue that DAV also 
takes very seriously. My colleagues have brought up the recent 
report between 2023 and March 2024, only 1,297 out of the 4,505 
armed VA police officers took to the annual suicide Prevention 
Training that is required in the Compact Act. This is less than 
one third of the VA police. Obviously, that is extremely 
concerning. Why is it so important to have VA police adequately 
trained on suicide prevention and de escalation?
    Mr. Retzer. It is so important because they are the first 
responders in many cases, and then they have also the ability 
within the VA facility, externally and internally, to be roving 
around, seeing what is going on. They have real time eyes on 
the situation, and many times that they are out there, they are 
the ones that will be able to provide that service to diffuse 
the situation. Maybe there is some concerns that are happening 
out in the park lot where we have, you know, abilities to get 
in. They can be that point of contact to navigate coming in.
    Then if there are situations, maybe they are getting the 
training, we hope they continue with their training, to involve 
recognizing individuals with maybe opioid issues, then they 
could be there to facilitate, if someone was overdosing with 
Narcan, those measurable things that could save a life. At the 
same time, if there is a crisis going on, they identify through 
training someone who may be suicidal, that they can grab them, 
escort them, do that warm handoff to the clinical mental health 
providers that can take that next step.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Are there any other tools, training, 
otherwise, that could help, in your view, help sustain better 
outcomes for veterans when they enter a VA facility in the need 
of assistance?
    Mr. Retzer. We believe that, you know, the tools and 
resources that they can do, as long as they do not create any 
barriers. When there is that human touch there, to provide not 
only the security and safety, but the guidance for them to go 
in and navigate the system. That is a huge component of what 
they are looking for, the veterans experience, they want it to 
be seamless. Any which way that we can to make the process 
seamless for them and very timely for them is what we are 
looking for.
    Mr. Mrvan. Mr. Conley, thank you for being here to speak to 
the subcommittee and provide best practices from your hospital. 
As a former healthcare executive, I recognize your commitment 
to ensuring the safety of your patients and providers. I 
understand that across your healthcare system, you have 
implemented an AI driven weapons detection technology. How did 
your hospital administrators and security chiefs decide to 
implement these tools? Were these steps initiated by your 
patients, providers, or something else?
    Mr. Conley. I think it--I think it was a combination of 
watching our workplace violence incidents increase across the 
system, and then getting direct feedback from our staff and 
their feeling of safety within the walls of the hospital. Those 
two factors led to the decision to pilot the programs at 
Norfolk General and at Virginia Beach General hospitals, and 
with the successful pilot, the decision to implement this 
system wide.
    Mr. Mrvan. Just the vision of the device.
    Mr. Conley. Yes.
    Mr. Mrvan. When you go to a baseball game, you walk 
through. When someone comes to the hospital, is it the same 
system?
    Mr. Conley. Yes.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay.
    Mr. Conley. It is not a queued up system like a metal 
detector system. It is a free flowing back and forth system.
    Mr. Mrvan. Do you have to have--where those devices are 
located, do you have to have security at that device? With your 
facility, the number of security that you have, does that put a 
strain on the ability of the police because you have to have 
someone stationed at that facility and not patrolling or doing 
other tasks? How have you managed that? Can you answer that 
question?
    Mr. Conley. Yes. When we did our concealed weapon detection 
system assessment, we realized that there is going to have to 
be additional staff. We did not want to take from our current 
staff that are rounding in the hospital and stationed in the 
ED. This would be an incremental expense for staffing the 
equipment 24/7.
    Mr. Mrvan. Your facility actually added security in order 
to facilitate the technology for weapons detection?
    Mr. Conley. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Do you know at what percentage of increase 
that cost or over budget or overhead for that?
    Mr. Conley. For every system, for every system, it is a 24 
hours system, it is about 4.8 FTEs. So 12----
    Mr. Mrvan. FTEs stand for?
    Mr. Conley. Employees. Full-time employees.
    Mr. Mrvan. Employees.
    Mr. Conley. Yes, I am sorry. You got to figure it is a 
roughly about 5 employees per system. If we are going to locate 
them within 12 EDs, 5 additional employees per system. Roughly, 
you know, about 60 employees.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Then from my own personal knowledge, 
because I have never heard of it, you talked about the parking 
lot cameras----
    Mr. Conley. Yes.
    Mr. Mrvan [continuing]. and their AI functionality.
    Mr. Conley. Yes.
    Mr. Mrvan. Examples of cameras with AI functionality.
    Mr. Conley. That is that--so the functionality--and we have 
not fully--we have not fully implemented it, but it allows not 
only to put eyes on the--on the parking lot, but also scan 
plates. Has the ability to do facial recognition. You know, we, 
right now, using it really as a visual deterrent, but the 
capabilities to----
    Mr. Mrvan. Sure.
    Mr. Conley [continuing]. the capabilities to connect into 
local law enforcement does allow them to kind of extend their 
reach into the communities that may not be patrolling at that 
time.
    Mr. Mrvan. Mr. Dowd, if I can ask a quick question. You 
talked about the capabilities that your associations offer up 
when it comes to broadband and trying to get----
    Mr. Dowd. Again, the technologies that have been developed 
over the last 5 or 6 years in response to the development of 
the nationwide Public Safety Broadband Network, there are now 
hundreds of devices in all kinds of functions. Whether it is 
radiation detection, whether it is identifying suspicious 
packages.
    Mr. Mrvan. I just wanted to kind of focus on 
communications.
    Mr. Dowd. Okay.
    Mr. Mrvan. My question would be, through your expertise.
    Mr. Dowd. Right.
    Mr. Mrvan. You had mentioned the advantage of processes and 
procedures in place when it comes to the VA and the Federal 
agency and local law enforcement and state level.
    Mr. Dowd. Right.
    Mr. Mrvan. Do you have statistics of VAs that participate 
and VAs that do not participate?
    Mr. Dowd. I do not have those statistics, no.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. I guess in your expertise, other than 
tabletop exercises and encouraging that, what are ways that you 
think you can draw in those agencies to make sure that they are 
participating in those and tearing down the silos in order to 
be able to communicate?
    Mr. Dowd. Again, you know, through the associations that 
exist in law enforcement, like the International Association of 
Police, in outreach or from either side, from the Federal side 
or from the State and local side, you can create those 
relationships without those relationships. Again, it is a 
struggle when there is an incident. While the technology is 
there and all these different technology capabilities exist 
without that outreach and without that first step to interact 
or to work together in incident management protocols, it is 
going to be difficult when something happens.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. With that, Chairwoman, I yield back. Thank 
you.
    Ms. Kiggans. Thank you, Ranking Member Mrvan. Do you have 
any closing remarks? You got them. You got them all out. Thank 
you. I just wanted to thank our panelists again for making the 
trip and for taking time--from both the first panel and the 
second panel--for being with us today and during National 
Police Week. I know that the rest--speaking for the rest of the 
subcommittee, we are definitely committed to improving security 
at the VA and working with all of you. Thank you so much, 
again, for being here today.
    I ask unanimous consent that all members should have 5 
legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks 
and include any extraneous material. Hearing no objections, so 
ordered. This hearing is now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:41 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]    
      
=======================================================================


                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

=======================================================================


                    Prepared Statements of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement of Alfred Montoya

    Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Mrvan, and Members of the 
Subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity to discuss VA's law 
enforcement and how Congress can best support VA personnel in their 
efforts to serve and protect Veterans, employees, and visitors on VA 
property. Your past support has been imperative in ensuring we 
accomplish our mission, and we look forward to continuing that close 
collaboration as we implement the Fiscal Year (FY) 2025 President's 
Budget. I am joined today by Chiefs Troy Brown, VA's Senior Security 
Officer; Brandy Soto, of Little Rock, Arkansas; and George Chester, of 
Detroit, Michigan. Also, wanted to recognize VA Police Chief Troy 
Covington, of Martinsburg, West Virginia; and Major Mark Moran, a 
physical security specialist who are sitting in the audience.

Police Staffing

    VA's police force plays a significant role in ensuring the security 
of VA facilities by providing specialized law enforcement. However, in 
Fiscal Year 2022, the Department faced significant retention 
challenges. In direct response, VA published a Shortage Occupation 
Blueprint for Police the following year, outlining strategies for 
recruitment and retention, to include maximizing incentives, marketing 
the total rewards of a VA police officer career, and implementing 
employee referral awards programs. VA also modernized and standardized 
VA Police position descriptions, pay grades, and required staffing 
levels. However, each facility Director remains responsible for 
developing a comprehensive staffing plan suited for their facility's 
specific requirements. During their preparations, the facility 
leadership incorporates core Department requirements and applies 
evidence-based staffing methodology, considering factors like 
Vulnerability Assessment Risk Scores, the number of serious incidents, 
crime levels, real-time threats, population density, and community 
needs.
    Recruiting qualified candidates for law enforcement positions can 
be challenging, especially with competition from other industries. 
Additionally, negative media coverage and public sentiment toward law 
enforcement can deter individuals from pursuing careers in policing. In 
response, VA has a dedicated team for recruiting and marketing VA 
police as an employer of choice, using local initiatives and groups, 
virtual career fairs and open houses, email marketing campaigns, and 
more. The team also created a targeted marketing campaign and timeline 
for communications related specifically to law enforcement for 2024. 
After the downturn in Fiscal Year 2022, VA successfully reversed the 
trend, with a 7.4 percent net increase (+278) in police officers in 
Fiscal Year 2023, the highest growth rate in recent years. This growth 
has continued in Fiscal Year 2024, with a 5.1 percent growth rate 
through April 30, 2024, adding 206 officers and bringing the total to 
4,255 officers currently onboard. Efforts to retain officers in Fiscal 
Year 2024 are showing promising results, with losses at the midpoint of 
the year running 20 percent less than Fiscal Year 2023 and 25 percent 
less than Fiscal Year 2022.

Chain of Command

    While individual police officers report directly to their 
corresponding medical centers, VA centralized its national police 
operations within VHA, under the Office of the Assistant USH for 
Operations. Eighteen Veterans Integrated Service Network (VISN) 
security officers are responsible for daily law enforcement and 
security operational oversight for their respective VISNs. The senior 
and deputy security officers within the Directorate of Law Enforcement 
serve as the principal security and law enforcement advisors, providing 
operational guidance to the VISNs and overseeing law enforcement and 
security operational oversight across all VA medical centers (VAMC), 
including adherence to corresponding policy and program requirements.
    Accountability and oversight mechanisms are essential for any law 
enforcement agency to uphold transparency, integrity, and trust within 
the community. While the operational oversight of a VA police service 
rests with the VAMC Director, the Office of Security and Law 
Enforcement (OS&LE) measures the effectiveness of VA Police programs 
through police program inspections. OS&LE leads the policy and 
oversight for the police program, including the police service units 
managed at each VA facility/property. OS&LE and other oversight and 
accountability mechanisms involve internal and external bodies tasked 
with monitoring the conduct of law enforcement officers, investigating 
complaints of misconduct or abuse, and ensuring compliance with legal 
and ethical standards. Recommendations may include policy reforms, 
training improvements, disciplinary actions, or other measures aimed at 
enhancing accountability and promoting public confidence.
    Other law enforcement agencies (such as Federal, State, and local 
police) fall outside the VA police force's chain of command, though 
continued coordination with those agencies is crucial for efficient and 
effective enforcement of laws and public safety. This coordination 
involves sharing information, resources, and expertise to address 
complex issues that may transcend jurisdictional boundaries. It also 
facilitates collaboration on joint operations, task forces, and 
initiatives aimed at combating various forms of crime.

Training Initiatives

    The Law Enforcement Training Center (LETC), responsible for all VA 
law enforcement education, is accredited by the Federal Law Enforcement 
Accreditation, fostering consistency in Federal law enforcement 
training and ensuring compliance with accreditation to instill public 
confidence in VA's law enforcement. LETC hosts an extensive catalog of 
courses that support and develop students and staff. Examples of 
initial training include Introduction to Supervision, Police Program 
Inspection, Evidence Custodian, Firearms, Ground Defense and Recovery, 
and Managing Police Services for Executives. Beyond internal 
mechanisms, VA built alliances by partnering with and providing 
training to law enforcement agencies within the National Institutes of 
Health, the Department of Commerce, the Department of the Army 
(civilian), the Department of the Navy (civilian), the Department of 
the Navy (Active Duty Master at Arms), the Department of the Air Force 
Security Forces (Active Duty), and the Bureau of Prisons.

Fitness for Duty

    Law enforcement agencies typically have specific physical and 
psychological fitness standards that candidates must successfully 
complete before receiving a formal job offer. VA police officers must 
be capable of arduous physical exertion, including emergency 
evacuations, assisting victims, and intervening in disturbances. 
Applicants must demonstrate upper and lower body strength, good distant 
vision, unaided hearing; and have complete and functional limbs and 
emotional and mental stability. VA policy also includes criteria for 
annual physical and psychological examinations for VA police officers 
to determine their continued physical and psychological suitability to 
perform the functional requirements of the position. All VA police 
officers, criminal investigators, supervisors, and chiefs undergo 
annual examinations to assess their ability to perform essential job 
functions. These examinations must be completed within 12 months of the 
previous examination. VA requires examinations by an agency physician 
to determine if an officer or applicant meets those standards.
    In response to immediate concerns that prompt a physical or 
psychiatric examination or results from a routine annual examination, 
officers' credentials are reviewed to determine if temporary action, 
such as suspending arrest or firearm authority, or identifying 
alternate assignments, are necessary pending an outcome. When an 
employee fails a physical or psychiatric examination, reasonable 
accommodation procedures apply, including provisions for alternate job 
searches. If reasonable accommodation is unsuccessful after a failed 
physical or psychiatric examination, the employee may be removed from 
Federal service due to medical inability to perform.
    In addition to providing access to support services such as 
counseling, peer support programs, and employee assistance programs to 
address both physical and mental health concerns, VA police recently 
established a health and wellness office. It offers a personalized, 
proactive, and employee-centered approach to well-being. The Whole 
Health approach focuses on what matters most to the officers: 
personalized health planning, coaching, well-being programs, and 
complementary and integrative health options. In March 2024, VA 
initiated targeted pilots at four sites to establish a collaborative 
culture of well-being and resilience. These pilots aim to integrate 
Whole Health into officers' daily practices and empower them to take 
charge of their health and live their lives to the fullest.

Compensation

    Like other Federal law enforcement agencies, VA's police force 
follows the General Schedule (GS) classification and pay system, which 
has 15 grade levels. Each police officer position is assigned a grade 
based on the level of difficulty, responsibility, and qualifications 
required. Entry-level police officers typically start at the GS-5 or 
GS-6 grade, while more experienced officers or those in supervisory 
roles may be placed at higher grades, such as GS-7 or GS-9. Each GS 
grade has a base salary range with ten step rates. As officers gain 
more experience through years of service and acceptable performance, 
they progress through the steps within their assigned grade, earning 
higher salaries. Locality payments authorized under title 5, United 
States Code, are added to GS base salaries as a geographic-based 
percentage rate to reduce the pay disparity between GS workers and non-
Federal workers in each locality pay area to the extent the President 
authorizes each year by Executive order. By law, the pay disparity for 
each locality pay area is calculated using non-Federal salary data from 
the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics salary surveys, and the extent to 
which pay disparities are reduced each year may be limited by the 
President or Congress. An employee's locality pay rate is based on the 
geographic location of the employee's official worksite. Special salary 
rates (SSRs) are higher rates of pay that VA may establish (with OPM 
concurrence) to obtain or retain the services of police officers under 
a special VA authority in title 38, United States Code. Medical Center 
directors have the discretion to use SSRs for police officers to help 
attract and retain qualified personnel in areas where the standard GS 
rates may not be competitive with other local, State, and Federal law 
enforcement agencies.
    One common challenge is ensuring that compensation is competitive 
enough to attract and retain qualified personnel. Additionally, there 
may be discrepancies between Federal agencies or regions, leading to 
retention issues in certain areas. Over the past year, VHA implemented 
an enterprise-wide approach for addressing compensation challenges for 
police officers under the Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring 
Our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics Act of 2022 by directing 
mandatory reviews of special rates and implementation of a 15 percent 
Critical Skills Incentive. The Drug Enforcement Administration faces 
similar challenges and may also offer specialized pay incentives for 
certain roles. The Federal Bureau of Investigation typically offers 
competitive pay scales, and the nature of their work and prestige can 
attract top talent. Like these agencies, VA seeks to attract and retain 
qualified personnel.
    Another key consideration is maintaining pay parity and equity 
across different roles and levels within an organization. This involves 
conducting regular market analyses and salary surveys to ensure 
compensation aligns with industry standards and internal pay scales are 
consistent. Failure to do so can lead to pay compression, where the 
difference in pay between entry-level and experienced employees becomes 
too small, potentially causing dissatisfaction and high turnover among 
tenured staff. Moreover, considering the total compensation package, 
including base salary, benefits, bonuses, and other retention and 
critical skills incentives, is crucial. These additional components can 
attract and retain top talent, particularly in competitive job markets 
or specialized fields. Striking the right balance between fiscal 
responsibility and competitive compensation is an ongoing challenge but 
essential for maintaining a skilled and motivated workforce. 
Organizations must continually evaluate and adjust their compensation 
strategies to adapt to changing market conditions, labor trends, and 
organizational needs.

Retirement Benefits

    VA police personnel are part of the Federal Employees Retirement 
System (FERS), a retirement plan that provides benefits from three 
different sources: a Basic Benefit Plan, Social Security, and the 
Thrift Savings Plan. Eligibility for retirement is determined by age 
and the number of years of creditable service. In some cases, employees 
must have reached the Minimum Retirement Age (MRA), ranging from 55 to 
57 years old, depending on their year of birth, to receive retirement 
benefits. Through the plan, if employees retire at MRA with at least 10 
but less than 30 years of service, their benefit will be reduced by 5 
percent for each year they are under the age of 62, unless they have 20 
years of service, and their benefit starts when they reach age 60 or 
later.
    There are four variations of accessing retirement benefits 
available through FERS, detailed below:

      An immediate retirement benefit starts within 30 days 
from the date the employee stops working.

      The early retirement benefit is available in certain 
involuntary separation cases and voluntary separations during a major 
reorganization or reduction in force.

      The deferred retirement benefit is available if an 
employee leaves Federal service before they meet the age and service 
requirements for an immediate retirement benefit and have completed at 
least 5 years of creditable civilian service. Deferred retirement 
benefits may be paid earlier if the employee completed at least 10 
years of service.

      The disability retirement benefit is available to an 
employee who becomes disabled while employed for at least 18 months due 
to a disease or injury, and the disability is expected to last at least 
1 year. The agency must certify that it cannot accommodate the employee 
due to their medical condition and that it considered them for 
reassignment within the same agency, at the same grade level, and 
within the same commuting area.

    There are no proposed changes or enhancements to FERS.
    Federal security forces whose primary duties involve the 
investigation, apprehension, and detention of persons who are suspected 
or convicted of certain criminal offenses, are classified as Law 
Enforcement Officers (LEO). The personnel that meet the statutory 
requirement for LEOs received enhanced retirement benefits as 
compensation for having a mandatory retirement age of 57. This 
mandatory retirement age is critical to maintain a ``young and 
vigorous'' corps of officers but may result in experienced LEOs 
retiring at an early age when it may be in the interest of the 
Government to retain these employees.
    VHA police do not meet the statutory requirements of LEO as the 
principal duties of VHA police are to protect property and prevent 
criminal offenses from occurring. There are no proposed changes to the 
statutory definition of LEO.

Building Security

    The guiding philosophy for security in VA calls for an open campus 
environment with layered security. VA facilities are to be open and 
inviting for Veterans and their families, providing safe and secure 
environments of care and service. However, sensitive and high-risk 
areas, such as pharmacies, warehouses, certain research or clinical 
laboratories, and other areas as determined by local risk assessment, 
must have increased physical security and perimeter control. 
Determining necessary protection levels for Federal activities is 
complicated, considering campus visitors' access needs, current and 
future threats, specific policy requirements, and construction design 
standards. VA facility Directors are the deciding officials for 
accepting risk. VA has established policies and procedures to assist 
facility Directors in making these determinations for a successful 
physical security program.
    Effective physical security requires planning for protection of 
persons, resources, and property; preventing criminal loss or theft of 
vulnerable supplies, equipment, and property; and the practical and 
economical application of technical security aids to augment optimal 
use of police officers (such as Security Surveillance TV and screening 
stations). For detecting concealed weapons, VA facilities may establish 
walk-through metal detection screening stations (magnetometers) and the 
use of hand-held metal detectors. Establishing a metal detector 
screening station requires a threat evaluation indicating the community 
is experiencing a marked degree of street violence, that a sizable 
number of patients and employees habitually bear concealed weapons, an 
assessment of employee concerns for safety and security in the 
workplace, and the dedication of no less than two fully armed VA police 
officers to operate this fixed post at all times.

Conclusion

    Madam Chair and Ranking Member Mrvan, thank you again for the 
invitation to join you for this important discussion. VA's police force 
remains committed to upholding our mission of deterring and stopping 
crime, maintaining order, and investigating crimes that may have 
occurred. We appreciate your continued support and collaboration 
through appropriate authorities and budget authorizations. My team and 
I look forward to your questions.

                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Bryan Hunt

    Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Mrvan, and Members of the 
Subcommittee:

    Thank you for inviting the American Federation of Government 
Employees (AFGE) to participate in today's Subcommittee Hearing on 
``Ensuring VA's Security: How Can Congress Best Support VA's Law 
Enforcement?'' My name is Bryan Hunt, and I serve as the President of 
AFGE Local 2384 at the Clarksburg, WV VA Medical Center. I am a U.S. 
Army Combat Veteran who proudly served our country during Operation 
Iraqi Freedom and the Global War on Terrorism, and am a service-
connected veteran who both works and receives my healthcare at the VA. 
Additionally, for 12 of my 17 years at the VA, I served as a VA Police 
officer, including being named the VA Police Officer of the Year in 
2012.
    On behalf of AFGE and its National Veterans Affairs Council (NVAC), 
representing over 750,000 Federal and District of Columbia government 
employees, 304,000 of whom are proud, dedicated Department of Veterans 
Affairs (VA) employees it is privilege to testify today. Specifically, 
I plan to focus my testimony on the approximately 2,500 VA Police 
Officers AFGE represents, 90 percent of whom are veterans themselves, 
serving in facilities throughout the Nation. As the Subcommittee 
continues to evaluate the best ways to support the VA Police Force, 
AFGE has several recommendations that can help the VA with law 
enforcement recruitment and retention, and help it better serve 
veterans particularly related to pensions, staffing, training, and 
physical security.

VA Law Enforcement Pensions

    The single most important and most effective action that Congress 
can take to help with the recruitment and retention to the VA Police 
Force is to extend Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) status to VA Police 
Officers. Under 5 U.S.C 8336(c), any LEO who either serves 25 years or 
is age 50 or older and serves 20 years may retire without penalty for 
early retirement. Currently, the definition of LEO relied upon in the 
code (5 U.S.C. 8401(17)) does not include VA Police Officers, and in 
turn they do not receive retirement benefits on par with Federal law 
enforcement officers at other Federal agencies. AFGE strongly supports 
H.R. 1322, the ``Law Enforcement Officers (LEO) Equity Act,'' 
introduced by Representatives Bill Pascrell, Jr. (D-NJ), Andrew 
Garbarino (R-NY), Gerry Connolly (D-VA), and Brian Fitzpatrick (R-PA), 
which would grant what are sometimes referred to as 6(c) benefits to VA 
Police Officers. The bill also recognizes police at other agencies who 
are not currently recognized as LEOs under the law, including those at 
the Department of Defense (DoD), Federal Emergency Management Agency 
(FEMA), and the Federal Protective Service (FPS). This bi-partisan bill 
currently has 83 co-sponsors, including Chairman Mike Bost (R-IL), 
Ranking Member Mark Takano (D-CA), Ranking Member Frank Mrvan (D-IN), 
Representative Chris Pappas (D-NH), and five other members of the House 
Veterans' Affairs Committee.
    Providing full LEO status to VA Police Officers would significantly 
help the VA Police Force with recruitment and retention. Currently, the 
VA hires many new recruits, sends them to the Law Enforcement Training 
Center (LETC) for training similar to other Federal LEOs, and then sees 
these officers depart the force for other opportunities within the 
Federal Government that do have 6(c) benefits, or to other state and 
local police departments. Granting full LEO status to VA Police 
Officers will diminish this turnover, and help the VA maintain a 
stronger and better trained police department with higher morale. 
Additionally, it is important to note that at a joint hearing before 
the Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee and Health Subcommittee 
on May 17, 2023, Tracy Therit, the VA's Chief Human Capital Officer, 
stated: ``The last thing that I'll mention is we very much support the 
`Law Enforcement Officer Equity Act.' We look forward to being able to 
provide our police officers with those enhanced benefits as well to 
make us more attractive and to fill those positions.''
    While the ``Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) Equity Act,'' is not in 
the jurisdiction of the House Veterans' Affairs Committee, AFGE urges 
that members of this Subcommittee, as well as the full committee, join 
their colleagues to become co-sponsors of H.R. 1322 and support its 
passage in the House.

Staffing

    The VA needs to improve the staffing levels of VA Police. In August 
2023, the VA Office of the Inspector General (OIG) released a report 
entitled ``OIG Determination of Veterans Health Administration's Severe 
Occupational Staffing Shortages Fiscal Year 2023.'' \1\ The report 
noted 73 facilities had a severe shortage of VA Police in the 0083 
series, with more common shortages found for only seven positions. \2\ 
The report goes on to underscore how long the problem has persisted, 
with the report noting that in a ``[c]omparison of the most frequently 
reported severe occupational staffing shortages from FYs 2018 through 
2023 highlighted five occupations that have remained in the top five 
clinical and top five nonclinical most frequently reported severe 
shortages. These occupations included Police, Psychiatry, Practical 
Nurse, Psychology, and Medical Technologist.'' \3\ Additionally, in a 
Fiscal Year 2022 VA Shortage Occupation Report, VA wrote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ ``OIG Determination of Veterans Health Administration's Severe 
Occupational Staffing Shortages Fiscal Year 2023,'' August 22, 2023. VA 
OIG 23-00659-186.
    \2\ Id at 8.
    \3\ Id at 12.

        0083 Police ranked third among the [staffing shortages of] 
        nonclinical occupations in VHA, selected by 71 out of 139 
        health care systems (51.1 percent). There were 3,878 onboard 
        and 1,577 vacant FTE (28.9 percent) as of December 2021. The 3-
        year average growth rate for this occupation was 2.0 percent, 
        with a turnover rate of 10.1 percent in Fiscal Year 2021. 
        Recruitment challenges were identified as the primary cause for 
        risk of shortage by 56 out of 71 health care systems (78.9 
        percent). Limited Supply of Candidates was selected as the 
        primary driver of the shortage by 42 out of 71 health care 
        systems (59.2 percent). Superior Qualifications, Special Rates, 
        or Special Needs Pay (48/71, 67.6 percent) and Recruitment and/
        or Relocation Incentives (36/71, 50.7 percent) were the 
        flexibilities selected most for addressing [the] shortage.\4\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \4\ Fiscal Year 2022 SHORTAGE OCCUPATION REPORT

    As for the VA's administrative actions to address staffing, the 
last time AFGE testified on VA Police issues, AFGE was supportive of 
certain parts of the VA's Modernization Plan summarized in the ``FY 
2020-FY 2021 VA Human Capital Operating Plan (HCOP)'' \5\ and would 
like an update on its status. Specifically, ``Strategy 5'' focuses on 
the ``efforts related to enhanced recruitment, hiring and development 
of VA's police force.'' \6\ This includes the VA's plan to ``create and 
communicate new staffing standards for police performance'' and that 
``[a]dditional training and resources will complement the effort. The 
new standards will provide key inputs into the creation of career 
roadmaps for the police cadre.'' \7\ AFGE also believes that the VA's 
``standardized position descriptions will support efficient and 
effective recruitment and hiring efforts while a workforce assessment 
will be completed to evaluate and improve pay, entitlements, and 
retirement benefits for police officers.'' \8\ AFGE urges the VA to 
implement the training and staffing portions of this plan as quickly as 
possible and ensure that vacancies are filled so the VA Police Force 
has the staff that it needs to serve.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \5\ FY 2020-FY 2021 VA Human Capital Operating Plan (HCOP) (June 
2020)
    \6\ Id. at 20.
    \7\ Id. at 22.
    \8\ Id.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    On the ground, AFGE has seen some of this plan in action, 
particularly with the creation of the new GS-7 Senior Police Officer 
position, which is a clear promotional opportunity from the standard 
GS-6 VA Police Officer. To further improve retention and promotional 
opportunity, AFGE urges both an increase in the number of GS-8 Senior 
Police Officer positions to increase promotion potential and allowing 
Police Officers to advance from GS-07 positions to GS-09 positions 
without a year in GS-08, as is currently required of VA Police. This 
prevents a number of officers, particularly in facilities where a GS-08 
posting is rare, to advance to GS-09.
    Furthermore, not all changes to position descriptions have been 
positive. AFGE remains concerned that the VA Detective position, which 
has been converted to a Criminal Investigator position, is no longer in 
AFGE's bargaining unit in certain locations. AFGE believes this is an 
unnecessary removal of union rights from VA Police Officer units, and 
that these positions should be universally returned to the bargaining 
unit immediately. Additionally, AFGE would like to note that these new 
Criminal Investigator positions were given 6(c) benefits 
administratively. While AFGE supports granting 6(c) benefits to all 
Federal LEOs, it is surprising that this group of officers would be 
extended the benefit while officers working on the front lines 
protecting veterans and staff at VA facilities are not. It would be a 
serious concern if the VA were conferring benefits in return for 
removing union rights.
    Additionally, AFGE is concerned about the wide discretion local 
facility management has in determining what position descriptions and 
organizational charts to use for staffing the facilities' police 
departments. While AFGE supports permitting facilities to hire 
additional staff if they demonstrate the need, AFGE has heard reports 
that leaders in certain facilities are intentionally characterizing 
their facilities in ways that justify having a smaller police force 
than what is required. We urge the Secretary and this Subcommittee to 
ensure that staffing models are accurate and enforced consistently 
across the VA. Furthermore, AFGE wants to highlight that police 
officers are funded from the same budgets as other medical center 
personnel. This practice forces each medical center director to choose 
between hiring between hiring a medical professional or a police 
officer, with priority often going to the healthcare provider. AFGE 
believes the Committee and VA should consider a dedicated funding 
source for VA Police to ensure that veterans and employees are 
protected.

Training

    One of the key strengths of the VA Police force is the level of 
training officers must undergo to serve the veteran population. A key 
example of this is the crisis intervention training that was passed in 
the 116th Congress as part of Chairman Takano's VA COMPACT Act that was 
enacted as part of the Johnny Isakson and David P. Roe, M.D. Veterans 
Health Care and Benefits Improvement Act of 2020. Because of this law, 
VA Police Officers who serve at VA Medical Centers, Community Based 
Outpatient Clinics, or Veteran Benefits Administration (VBA) Regional 
Offices (RO) are now trained to prevent a veteran in a crisis situation 
from harming himself or herself or others.
    This training is an extremely important and specialized investment 
that is intended to save lives. However, the high attrition rates of VA 
Police Officers who undergo this training puts an added strain on VA 
resources when considering the cost of training. This is exemplified by 
the Law Enforcement Training Center (LETC) already charging $14,620 for 
a VA Police Officer Standard Training Course, which does not include 
the crisis intervention training required by the VA COMPACT Act.
    When analyzing this figure in relation to the regular attrition of 
VA Police, the VA is spending a significant amount on training each 
year. AFGE urges the committee to ask the VA how much it expends on 
training, as well as a breakdown of costs for officers who leave 
shortly after receiving training and calculate how it can save money 
and improve retention with 6(c) benefits and improved use of special 
salary rates and retention bonuses. AFGE believes that SVAC Ranking 
Member Moran is correct to point out in a recent letter to Secretary 
McDonough, that at least in part as a result of excessive turnover, 
``[Between] January 2023 to March 2024, only 1,297 out of 4,505 armed 
VA Police Officers were in compliance with the annual training 
requirement of the COMPACT Act representing a compliance rate of only 
28 percent.'' Improving retention would strongly contribute to 
improving the percentage of active officers who receive this 
statutorily required training.

Physical Security

    The VA Police's first obligation is to fulfill its Mission 
Statement ``To Protect Those Who Served.'' To achieve this goal, AFGE 
appreciates that security needs to be tailored to each facility to best 
protect its veterans.
    AFGE supports programs including those proposed in H.R. 7765, the 
``VA Security Screening Pilot Program Act.'' This bill is a strong 
proposal designed to prevent violence at Veterans Medical Centers. 
However, as the VA continues to evaluate its physical security AFGE 
urges the VA to take several considerations into account.
    First, AFGE urges that the VA provides its police with training on 
any new security technologies installed at VA facilities and that only 
VA Police Officers, who have undergone crisis intervention training 
required by statute and are best equipped to respond to an emergency at 
a VA facility, are allowed to operate such technology, and not third-
party contractors.
    Second, AFGE urges the VA to make sure that facilities using or 
piloting screening technology account for the extra demand on staff and 
hire more officers accordingly. Some facility police forces do not have 
the capacity to operate screening technology and perform their other 
duties. New screening technologies will require more police staff.
    Third, the VA should not limit the use of new screening 
technologies to Medical Centers. As the VA utilizes larger Community 
Based Outpatient Clinics (CBOCs), it is worth including them as well as 
VBA regional offices which are under the jurisdiction of other Federal 
agencies police forces. This will provide a broad cross section of data 
on the effectiveness of the technologies.
    Fourth, AFGE strongly encourages that in sites wherever screening 
technology is being piloted, there be either separate screening lines 
or reserved entrances for staff to prevent delays in patient care.
    AFGE looks forward to working with the Subcommittee and the VA to 
improve the recruitment and retention of the VA Police Force and ensure 
that it is fully staffed. Thank you.

                   Prepared Statement of Kapua Conley

    Chairwomen Kiggans, members of the committee, thank you for the 
privilege of addressing you today on one of Sentara Health's top 
priorities - the safety of our employees, patients and all visitors who 
walk into our facilities.
    I am Kapua Conley, Regional President for Sentara Health.
    Sentara is an integrated delivery network with 12 hospitals in the 
Mid-Atlantic, a health plan and more than 30,000 employees. Our largest 
hospital, a Level 1 Trauma Center is just miles from Naval Station 
Norfolk, and we serve many active duty, veterans and their families.
    Keeping our employees, patients and visitors safe is a 
responsibility we take very seriously, as you will hear from my 
comments today. From my perspective ``Security is both a feeling and a 
reality. And they are not the same.'' Making our employees and patients 
feel safe is just as important as keeping them safe.
    The statistics around workplace safety in a healthcare environment 
are staggering.
    We know that healthcare workers are 5X more likely to experience 
violence compared to those in any other private profession. Outside of 
law enforcement, an emergency department is the second most dangerous 
workplace.
    The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics found that healthcare workers 
account for 73 percent of injuries from workplace violence. The threat 
to nurses, physicians and other healthcare workers has been on the rise 
since 2011.
    Those statistics are our reality on the front lines of healthcare.
    Sixty-four handguns, 1,204 knives, 158 box cutters, 84 tasers and 
two machetes - this is an inventory of weapons intercepted at the doors 
of emergency departments in just two Sentara hospitals in a little over 
a year.
    In total, security personnel have prevented nearly 2,484 weapons 
from entering Sentara Norfolk General and Sentara Virginia Beach 
General hospitals during that time.
    Our Security Team seeks to first prevent and deter violence within 
our facilities.
    Second, we seek to protect our employees, patients and visitors 
from harm or injury should a violent incident occur.

Prevent and Deter Workplace Violence

    To prevent and deter violence, Sentara has implemented 
sophisticated, state-of-the-art, AI-driven Concealed Weapon Detection 
Systems. Over the next 2 years, every hospital will have this system in 
place.
    When our CEO, Dennis Matheis, sat down with some of our front-line 
employees to discuss this initiative, he was concerned about push back, 
as hospitals are havens of healing. One nurse reminded Dennis that our 
children walk through metal detectors every day going to school. This 
is now the new normal.
    In addition, Sentara has implemented a Visitor Management System 
that allows us to know who is entering any of our facilities and 
whether they are authorized to do so, reducing criminal acts and 
workplace violence.
    Also, in addition to thousands of CCTV cameras located throughout 
our hospitals, we have personal duress alarms and a new Emergency 
Notification System to better communicate with our teams and take 
proactive action.
    All front-line employees are trained on de-escalation, and Sentara 
has implemented cutting edge Active Shooter Training, including a full-
scale active shooter drill involving our emergency services community 
partners.

Protect Our Employees, Patients and Visitors

    To ensure the highest level of safety, Sentara recognizes the need 
to be proactive, not reactive. Each and every member of our team is 
critical to the safety of all. This responsibility to keep each other 
safe is engrained in our culture and built into our daily protocols, 
training, and technology.
    Every nurse has the capability and responsibility to flag patient 
medical records for individuals who exhibit threatening behaviors. Our 
support staff follow the buddy system when serving these patients. 
Security patrols keep a close watch on units with potentially violent 
patients, and they make sure that flags in our electronic medical 
records match signage in the units. Patient flags are evaluated every 
12 hours and removed if a patient is no longer a threat.
    Multi-disciplinary Core Threat Assessment Teams in each division 
review all workplace violence incidents, ensure appropriate use of 
flags, analyze trends and root causes, and recommend additional 
training and protocols to maximize safety. These teams rally on short 
notice when there is an urgent need for a coordinated and decisive 
response to potential threats.
    Our in-house security professionals are essential to our strategic 
approach to safety. Sentara is training an elite team of Security 
officers to receive certification by the Virginia Department of 
Criminal Justice Services. And we are implementing Video Magistrate 
rooms that permit police and staff to directly link with a magistrate 
to provide evidence and swear out an arrest warrant in real time for a 
criminal event that has or may occur.

Conclusion

    Again, ``Security is both a feeling and a reality. And they are not 
the same.''
    This needs to be taken into consideration when looking at our own 
veterans medical facilities. Sentara stands ready to collaborate and 
partner with the VA system on how best to assess, support and implement 
best practices in safety and security at these facilities.
    We have made an investment in safety which has returns beyond a 
dollar amount. I hope that the VA system will do the same.
    I am happy to take any questions at the appropriate time.

                    Prepared Statement of Chuck Dowd
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                    Prepared Statement of Jon Retzer

    Chairwoman Kiggans, Ranking Member Mrvan and Members of the 
Subcommittee:

    Thank you for inviting DAV (Disabled American Veterans) to testify 
at today's hearing of the Subcommittee on Veterans' Affairs Oversight 
and Investigations--``Ensuring VA's Security: How Can Congress Best 
Support VA's Law Enforcement?''
    DAV, a congressionally chartered non-profit veterans service 
organization (VSO), is comprised of over one million wartime service-
disabled veterans. Its single purpose is to empower veterans to lead 
high-quality lives with respect and dignity. DAV is pleased to provide 
our perspectives on the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) police 
force and security issues being discussed today by the Subcommittee.
    The VA operates one of the largest health care systems in the 
Nation, the Veterans Health Administration (VHA) and offers training 
for a majority of America's medical, nursing, and allied health 
professionals. The VA health care system includes 172 VA Medical 
Centers (VAMC) and 1,138 community-based outpatient sites of care. With 
more than 371,000 employees, these health care facilities ensure 
comprehensive care for over 7 million veterans every year.
    With utmost appreciation, DAV would like to extend thanks to the 
law enforcement men and women who make up the VA's police and security 
support teams for their dedication and commitment to serving and 
protecting our veteran community.
    To protect VA's physical infrastructure, the Office of Emergency 
Management collaborates with relevant VA departments and external 
agencies to safeguard veterans, employees, visitors, and property at VA 
facilities. The Office of Security and Law Enforcement (OS&LE) offers 
guidance, consultation, and direct operational support to all elements 
of VA.
    The VA Police Service is one of the three main sections that the 
office is organized into, responsible for conducting police program 
oversight, policy development and strategic planning, physical security 
standards and practices, protection of VA Central Office buildings, and 
executive protection of the Secretary and Deputy Secretary. The 
Security and Investigations Center (SIC) oversees the management of the 
VA's personnel suitability and security investigation programs. To meet 
the needs of all VA entities nationwide, quality, and timely background 
investigations and adjudications are ensured for VA employees and 
contractors in sensitive positions. The SIC oversees both the 
processing of fingerprints and the design and production of 
identification badges and access cards for Central Office employees.
    The VA Law Enforcement Training Center fulfills its crucial role 
through the provision of professional training and development for VA 
police officers across the system. The VA maintains a well-trained 
police force to enforce the law and protect patients, visitors, 
employees, and property at VA facilities. Approximately 2,700 trained 
VA police officers are shouldering these duties at all major VA medical 
facilities and many VA outpatient clinics. They also serve VA's 
National Cemetery Administration and Veterans Benefits Administrations, 
including locations in Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands.
    The primary role of the VA police is to deter and stop crime, keep 
order, and investigate crimes that may have happened within the 
authority of the VA. Individuals wanting to become VA police officers 
must possess specialized law enforcement experience and undergo a 
variety of background checks and meet basic medical standards related 
to performing law enforcement duties, as set by the Office of Personnel 
Management. These standards require experience with basic laws and 
regulations, as well as law enforcement operations, practices, and 
techniques.
    The VA Fiscal Year (FY) 2023 Annual Performance Plan and Fiscal 
Year 2021 report noted that the VA Office of Human Resources and 
Administration/Office of Operations and Administration tracks and 
reports the number of violent crimes committed on VA property. Violent 
crimes are defined as assault, aggravated assault, sexual assault, 
attempted murder, homicide (murder), kidnapping, manslaughter, robbery, 
terroristic threats to US officials, and workplace violence. The total 
number of violent crimes reported on VA property for Fiscal Year 2021 
was 6,538--steadily increasing, from the previous years of 2020 at 
5,002; 2019 at 4,420; and 2018 at 3,131.
    In February 2023, the VA Office of Inspector General (OIG) released 
its report (22-03770-49) and assessment of 70 VA medical facilities to 
determine if they had established minimum security plans that met VA's 
security requirements. The OIG evaluated security of doors, staffing 
levels, the use of security cameras and if there was an active security 
presence at VA medical facilities. The OIG noted VA generally complied 
with security training requirements and demonstrated general emergency 
response planning and preparedness; however, it identified multiple 
security vulnerabilities and deficiencies at the 70 facilities assessed 
to include: unlocked doors in sensitive areas, significant police 
officer vacancies and inoperable security cameras. Staffing challenges 
were considered a significant factor to security issues identified--
particularly, ``...the lack of a visible and active police presence.'' 
It was noted that having a police and security personnel presence at 
facility entrances acts as a deterrent to crime and comports with 
overall security of a facility. Yet due to staffing challenges, ``OIG 
teams identified that 93 percent of the facilities [monitored] had at 
least one public access door without the required security presence.'' 
We were pleased to see that 69 of the 70 facilities assessed had 
required contingency plans in place for serious security issues to 
include active shooters, bomb threats and hostage situations.
    Additionally, despite VA issued guidance in May 2022 requiring 
facilities to have an active security presence in emergency departments 
at all times by May 2023, 58 percent of facilities did not meet this 
mandate. Finally, the OIG found that surveillance cameras were not 
consistently operable or monitored and recommended more oversight to 
ensure these surveillance systems are regularly tested, maintained and 
managed as another counterpoint for deterrence to potential bad actors. 
The OIG also suggested VA set a national standard for monitoring, 
periodic review and storage of surveillance camera footage.
    To address the increase of violent crime on VA property will 
require oversight and identifying the unique challenges and security 
weaknesses that exist at each VA facility. We need to ensure VA police 
have quality and functional equipment to mitigate risks from possible 
threats, with an emphasis on training and adoption of appropriate 
processes and protocols to address violent crimes as well as the 
privacy and safety of all veterans with a special focus on the safety 
of women veterans using VA services. Congress should consider 
legislation to ensure the VA Police force and its officers have the 
proper staffing, resources and training they need to ensure all medical 
facilities are safe and secure for veterans, staff and visitors.
    Security and safety measures should be standardized but also 
tailored and measured to meet the specific needs of each VA facility 
and its respective location and risk level. There may be a need to 
prioritize facilities or areas with higher crime or incidents of 
violence or security breaches. When making and implementing new 
policies and procedures, it is also important to have the ease of 
access to VA facilities for our disabled veterans at the forefront.
    Veterans understand the importance of security from their time in 
the armed forces in conducting and sustaining operations for this 
Nation. It is only fitting that this Nation, in return, provides ill 
and injured veterans secure sanctuary from internal and external 
threats when seeking health care at VA facilities.
    For these reasons, DAV is pleased to support H.R. 3504, the VA 
Medical Security Report Act, legislation that would require VA, in 
coordination with the Office of Security and Law Enforcement, to 
conduct an annual survey to collect information about security at each 
VA medical care center. Types of information to be collected include: 
frequency and type of criminal activity; number of vacant positions for 
police officers; availability and adequacy of required security 
equipment; and availability and adequacy of training--including 
training for responding to serious threats. The bill would also require 
the Secretary to provide an action plan describing how the Department 
would address any identified security weaknesses.
    Another security bill referred to the Subcommittee is H.R. 7765, 
the VA Security Screening Pilot Program Act, legislation that would 
direct the VA to carry out a pilot program to use weapon screening 
technology at VA medical centers. While we don't have a resolution from 
our members regarding security screening, we certainly appreciate the 
intent of this legislation and the goal to safeguard veterans, 
employees and VA property. As with any changes to security at VA 
facilities, this would have to be done in a manner that avoids creating 
unnecessary barriers to care for veterans - especially aging and 
service-disabled veterans - who are more likely to have medical 
devices, prosthetics, assistive equipment, and service animals. As 
such, it is critically important to mandate robust consultation with 
veterans and veterans service organizations before finalizing any 
changes to security protocols at VA health care facilities.
    In closing, we appreciate the Subcommittees attention to the issue 
of security and urge continued oversight to address identified areas 
needing improvement. Our veterans and the VA staff dedicated to caring 
for them deserve a safe, harassment free environment that is well 
ordered and free of crime. We must ensure the VA police have the staff, 
resources and tools to address the security challenges of today and 
that they have the support to make necessary changes to prevent crime 
and safeguard these essential facilities and veterans using them.
    This concludes my testimony on behalf of DAV. I am pleased to 
answer questions you or members of the Subcommittee may have.

                        Statement for the Record

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   Prepared Statement of Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association
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