[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                 THE MYTH OF THE NEW CUBAN ENTREPRENEURS:
                  AN ANALYSIS OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S 
                                   CUBA POLICY

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                   SUBCOMMITTEE ON WESTERN HEMISPHERE

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________

                            JANUARY 18, 2024

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-77

                               __________

        Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
        
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]        


Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov, 
                       or http://www.govinfo.gov
                       
                              __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
55-925 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------                        
                     COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS

                   MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Chairman

CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey     GREGORY MEEKS, New York, Ranking 
JOE WILSON, South Carolina               Member
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania	     BRAD SHERMAN, California	
DARRELL ISSA, California	     GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
ANN WAGNER, Missouri		     WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
BRIAN MAST, Florida		     AMI BERA, California
KEN BUCK, Colorado		     JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee		     DINA TITUS, Nevada
MARK E. GREEN, Tennessee	     TED LIEU, California
ANDY BARR, Kentucky		     SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
RONNY JACKSON, Texas		     DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
YOUNG KIM, California		     COLIN ALLRED, Texas
MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida	     ANDY KIM, New Jersey
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan		     SARA JACOBS, California
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, 	     KATHY MANNING, North Carolina
    American Samoa		     SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, 
FRENCH HILL, Arkansas		          Florida	
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio		     GREG STANTON, Arizona
JIM BAIRD, Indiana		     MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida	             JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
THOMAS KEAN, JR., New Jersey         JONATHAN JACKSON, Illinois
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York	     SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
CORY MILLS, Florida		     JIM COSTA, California
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia              JASON CROW, Colorado
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas		     BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
JOHN JAMES, Michigan		     
KEITH SELF, Texas			

                     Brenda Shields, Staff Director
                    Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director
                                 ------                                

                 Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere

                     MARIA SALAZAR, Florida, Chair
                     
KEN BUCK, Colorado                   JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas, Ranking 
MARK GREEN, Tennessee                    Member
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan		     GREG STANTON, Arizona
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio		     JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
KEITH SELF, Texas		     SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California                                     
                                     
                 Ricardo Pita,  Staff Director

                            
                            
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               WITNESSES

Jacobstein, Eric, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Western 
  Hemisphere Affairs, U.S. Department of State...................     9
Roig, Enrique, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Bureau of Democracy, 
  Human Rights, and Labor, U.S. Department of State..............    14

        STATEMENT FOR THE RECORD FROM REPRESENTATIVE BARBARA LEE

Statement for the record from Representative Barbara Lee.........    31

                                APPENDIX

Hearing Notice...................................................    34
Hearing Minutes..................................................    35
Hearing Attendance...............................................    36

            RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Responses to questions submitted for the record..................    37

 
                       THE MYTH OF THE NEW CUBAN
  ENTREPRENEURS: AN ANALYSIS OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S CUBA POLICY

                       Thursday, January 18, 2024

                          House of Representatives,
            Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
                      Committee on Foreign Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:11 p.m., in 
room 2200, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Maria Elvira 
Salazar (chair of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Ms. Salazar. The Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere 
will come to order.
    Mr. Castro. Chairwoman, I wanted to ask unanimous consent 
for Representatives Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida and 
Barbara Lee of California, both senior members of the Committee 
on Appropriations, to participate in this hearing after all 
members have had their chance to question the witnesses.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you for that request. Debbie Wasserman 
Schultz is more than welcome. Barbara Lee is not.
    Mr. Castro. Can I ask you--can I ask you the reasoning, 
Chairwoman? The reason I ask----
    Ms. Salazar. Oh, I can tell you about the--the reasoning is 
because Barbara Lee, who I know is a distinguished member of 
the Democratic Party, is friends with the oppressors and not 
with the Cuban people.
    Barbara Lee has been friends with Fidel Castro and she 
was--there are many statements that we can repeat and that 
indicate that she is just not with the people that I represent 
who are the Cuban exile community in Miami.
    Mr. Castro. Sure.
    Ms. Salazar. She is not a friend of the Cuban people that 
we are trying to liberate.
    Mr. Castro. A point of personal privilege. If I could 
respond really quick.
    Chairwoman, you know I respect your work. Even though our 
positions on different issues with respect to the Western 
Hemisphere and Latin America are sometimes far apart I 
respected your voice and your work and the policy that you've 
worked on. But this move to not allow one of our colleagues in 
the U.S. Congress who's been elected by the people she 
represents to sit and participate on a panel like this is, I 
think, unprecedented. If it's happened before I do not know 
about it, and I know that, like many, you have been critical of 
the government in Cuba in part because it suppresses free 
speech and suppresses different opinions.
    And so, without getting to the substance of your critique 
of Congresswoman Lee, Chairwoman, that's exactly what you're 
doing right now is you're suppressing somebody from even 
sitting here and participating in the same way that the Cuban 
government has suppressed opinion and perspective for decades.
    Ms. Salazar. My dear colleague, the Cuban people do not 
have a platform to express themselves like distinguished lady 
Barbara Lee or Congresswoman Barbara Lee has had because she 
has been able to go to many media outlets. She's been able to 
express her admiration for Fidel Castro. 1But this is not the 
site to do that. She has no position and she is not welcomed on 
this committee that I humbly chair. So I thank you very much 
for your--for your request, but not this time.
    Therefore, the Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere will 
come to order.
    The purpose of this hearing is to discuss the findings----
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Madam Chair, while I appreciate your 
invitation to testify in front of the committee the traditions 
of this committee and our U.S. House of Representatives are 
that we're all provided equal access under the same rules, and 
you and I share a position on the Cuban regime, but unless my 
colleague Congresswoman Lee, who is also equally a 
representative representing one of the 435 congressional 
districts, is allowed to testify then while I appreciate your 
invitation I must decline.
    Ms. Salazar. And I am very sorry but, obviously, we support 
your position if that is it. You've been a very close friend of 
the Cuban people, people that we represent and that live in 
South Florida, and I am so sorry that you're not going to be 
participating with us. But you are a different type of member 
within the Democratic Party.
    Ms. Lee. Madam Chair--Madam Chair, I've served on this 
subcommittee for many, many years. I'm an African-American 
woman who has a point of view where in a democracy those points 
of views are allowed and you are doing exactly what you say the 
Cuban government is by denying myself, a Member of Congress who 
represents the same number of constituency representing, 
denying me the opportunity to present my point of view.
    What is wrong with this picture?
    Ms. Salazar. I would love to have this same type of 
political discourse in Havana.
    Ms. Lee. Let's have it in Havana. If we normalize 
relations--normal diplomatic relations where entrepreneurs can 
thrive in Cuba.
    Ms. Salazar. The only people who have that key is the Cuban 
regime. They could make that happen right now----
    Ms. Lee. Madam Chair----
    Ms. Salazar [continuing]. And, unfortunately, you have been 
friends with those who are not in favor of the Cuban people.
    [Simultaneous speaking.]
    Ms. Lee. Madam Chair, I am the--I am a friend in the United 
States--I am a member of the U.S. Congress. I am a friend of 
the global community and I want to see normal relations between 
every country in the world and the people of the United States 
and the government of the United States whether we agree or 
disagree.
    Ms. Salazar. Then we'll--then we'll--Congresswoman, you 
have been----
    Ms. Lee. The only way we can ensure the values of democracy 
are promoted is being at the table engaging with----
    Ms. Salazar. Fidel Castro has been the worst dictator that 
the hemisphere has seen since the arrival of Christopher 
Columbus----
    [Simultaneous speaking.]
    Voice. Madam Chair, he's been dead for 10 years.
    [Simultaneous speaking.]
    Ms. Lee. Talk about Donald Trump. Why do not you raise his 
autocratic tendencies?
    Ms. Salazar. The subcommittee--we are about to start this 
hearing.
    Ms. Wasserman Schultz. Let's talk about the strength of our 
ideas which I share with you.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you. The Subcommittee on the Western 
Hemisphere will come to order.
    The purpose of this hearing is to discuss the Biden 
Administration's policy toward Cuba and to explore the 
Administration's desire to loosen the rules for investing in 
the Cuban regime's adjacent private sector, among other 
critical bilateral issues.
    I now recognize myself for an opening statement, and thank 
you very much to Mr. Jacobstein for coming and for Mr. Roig for 
being here and wanting to dedicate your time and your expertise 
to clarify this topic a little bit more.
    Do you see this poster behind me? What is it? It's a store 
owned by the Cuban regime. It's a store that sells Guccis, 
Armani products in the heart of Havana, the most expensive 
shopping mall in the capital called La Manzana de Gomez.
    I would like that every MIPYME, as the Cubans call it, 
which stands for small and medium-sized businesses, to look 
like this one and be owned by an ordinary Cuban who has nothing 
to do with the Castro regime.
    Every Cuban not, just the Enchufados, to say in Spanish, or 
the children of the Communist Party bosses. And why do I say 
that? Because so far, unless you have different type of 
information, based on the info that we have coming from Havana 
and from Cuba those who have had an easy, easy path to opening 
a business like this one are the children of the oppressors or 
the oppressors themselves and I'm going to give you three 
examples.
    Ernesto Guevara, Jr., the son of Che Guevara--do we have to 
say who Che Guevara is? He owns La Poderosa Tours. No. 2, 
Sandro Castro, the grandson of Fidel who owns EFE nightclub in 
Havana. No. 3, Vilma Rodriguez, the granddaughter of Raul 
Castro who owns Casa Vida Luxury Holidays.
    And two members of the Red Avispa, Gerardo Rodriguez and 
Renee Gonzalez, who happen to have spent 15 years in a Federal 
prison close to us, are now the main promoters of this new 
concept, I repeat, called the MIPYMEs, small business sector in 
Cuba, according to the Cubans.
    Unfortunately, this smells like a new scheme from the 
regime who is desperate for millions of dollars to violate the 
American embargo. Remember, they allowed the creation of the 
MIPYMEs in August 2021, just 1 month after the July 11th 
protests.
    As you know, the Cuban regime is a master of disguise and 
we just saw here right now a little taste of that that, 
unfortunately, the gentle Congresswoman really believes that 
the Cuban regime is in the business of feeding the Cuban 
population three times a day and giving them prosperity and 
freedom.
    I'm so sorry that I have to believe that this is another 
scheme, and I do want to be wrong. The Biden Administration is, 
according to our information, going to review the new 
regulations regarding Cuba.
    The White House has not revealed all the details, although 
there are rumors that the Biden Administration will open the 
American banking system to this new class of around 9,000 small 
entrepreneurs who compose this new class of private independent 
small business owners. Private independent small business 
owners.
    I repeat, opening the banking system to this supposed new 
class. There's just a couple of catches to this new initiative. 
No. 1, the law. The embargo says clearly that all transfers of 
credit, which means loans, and all payments between banking 
institutions between Cuba and the United States are forbidden.
    No. 2, the Biden Administration says that the new policy is 
never, never going to benefit the regime. But how could that be 
possible if GAESA, which is this institution that controls all 
the money that flows in and out of the island, is run by the 
military?
    No. 3, the Russians. The Russians are the ones who handle 
every credit card transaction in the island. So we're talking 
about three--the embargo, the regime and the Russians.
    And but I think that at the end what we all care to know is 
that the United States wants to benefit Paco, Berta, Pepito, 
Fefa, those Cubans who just want to liberate themselves from 
the joke of the regime. The American Administration, I'm sure, 
does not want to benefit Raul and his nietos.
    Miguel y sus hijos and Ramiro and his primos.
    I'm going to say a small statement in Spanish.
    [Speaking foreign language.]
    The chair now recognizes the ranking member, the gentleman 
from Texas, Mr. Castro, for any statements he may have.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. I'm glad to discuss how the United 
States can support actors in Cuba who are attempting to limit 
the influence and power of the Cuban authoritarian regime 
including the private sector, civil society, and activists.
    Additionally, welcome to our witnesses from the State 
Department. It's great to see you again, Mr. Jacobstein, and 
welcome, Mr. Roig.
    I stand with the Cuban people in their fight for a 
government and society that protects human rights, advances 
democracy, and promotes economic development. I believe that 
the best way to achieve these goals is through a renewed 
approach to our engagement with the island, an approach that 
recognizes that our policies over the last 60 years have not 
resulted in the changes we would like to see.
    In some cases it has even emboldened the Cuban government 
and strengthened their relationship with key adversaries like 
China and Russia. The United States can both recognize the 
threat that the Cuban regime poses to regional national 
security while also engaging on key priorities and supporting 
the Cuban people's efforts to further their own democratic 
aspirations.
    When we fully take ourselves out of the equation like what 
occurred under the, quote/unquote, ``maximum pressure policy'' 
of the Trump Administration we erase our ability to enact 
change and support meaningful efforts.
    And let me be clear, the Cuban government is an 
authoritarian regime with little respect for human rights or 
democracy. It ranks near the bottom of every independent 
measure of democracy.
    However, historically we have seen more progress on these 
issues when we're engaging with the Cuban government, not when 
we're in complete isolation.
    Under President Obama, the United States normalized 
relations by rescinding Cuba's designation as a State sponsor 
of terrorism, lifting U.S. travel and remittance restrictions, 
providing U.S. banks with access to Cuban--the Cuban financial 
system, and reopening embassies in Havana and the Cuban Embassy 
in Washington.
    President Obama made improving human rights conditions, 
particularly freedom of expression and assembly, key to a U.S.-
Cuba relationship. As he succinctly recognized, our Nation's 
policy toward Cuba is the, quote, ``last remnant of the cold 
war in the Americas.''
    And as a test for that remember when we think about the 
argument that we're often--that we're dealing with a communist 
country and so forth China is one of the largest trading 
partners of the United States. Vietnam is a strong trading 
partner of the United States, a country with whom we have a 
strong prosperous relationship.
    Unfortunately, the previous Administration reversed many of 
those reforms and implemented even more restrictive policies 
including a baseless redesignation of Cuba on the State sponsor 
of terrorism list.
    I was hopeful that the Biden Administration would reverse 
Donald Trump's disastrous policies and set up--set us back on a 
path toward normalization with Cuba. I'm grateful that the 
Biden Administration has taken a number of important steps 
including providing humanitarian parole and family 
reunification programs, easing restrictions on remittances, 
lifting travel restrictions, reopening the Havana Embassy and 
visa and consular services, and renewing funding for Cuban 
democracy programs.
    The Biden Administration also rightfully condemned the 
harsh crackdown on July 11 protesters and the subsequent 
arbitrary imprisonment and punishment of opposition figures, 
1,000 of which are estimated to still be in prison today.
    However, the President's failure to reverse harmful 
policies like the unwarranted State sponsor of terror 
designation, sanctions, and the embargo is a serious missed 
opportunity.
    The United States policy toward Cuba over the last 60 years 
has resulted in no tangible proof that these policies move the 
needle on democratic progress.
    Instead, they've dramatically worsened the lives of 
everyday Cubans, Cubans like those who showed up on July 11th 
begging for policies that support democracy and economic 
prosperity.
    The United States is failing those Cubans. Cuba's 
designation as a State sponsor of terror, a last-minute act by 
former President Trump, does not have any merit and has 
isolated Cubans from the global financial system, further 
entrenching the current regime.
    We must remove Cuba from the SSOT and end this baseless, 
extremely harmful designation. As President Obama recognized 
the embargo on Cuba has not only failed to advance U.S. 
interests but has had devastating humanitarian effects by 
obstructing access to essential goods like food and medicine, 
exacerbating hunger, undermining the private sector, and 
eroding critical infrastructure with an even worse impact on 
women and other minorities.
    Along with ending the decades-old embargo the United States 
could support the Cuban people by their--and their aspirations 
by waiving Helms-Burton Title III, ending sanctions on shipping 
companies that provide fuel to Cuba, strengthening agricultural 
ties and reviewing entities on Cuba restricted and prohibited 
accommodations list.
    The Cuban embargo and Cuba's presence on the State sponsor 
of terrorism list are particularly harmful to the growing 
private sector in Cuba. Contrary to today's hearing title, an 
independent private sector does exist in Cuba and supporting 
this growing private sector presence is both beneficial to the 
United States and the Cuban people by lessening the reliance on 
the Cuban government for economic opportunities.
    The private sector as of last year employs 35 percent of 
the Cuban workforce and has provided food and other essential 
goods to the island which are normally inaccessible. We should 
be supporting these entrepreneurial efforts, not stifling them.
    Yet, our current policies prevent the private sector from 
accessing bank accounts, obtaining key investments, and inhibit 
growth due to over compliance. We need the Cuban people to have 
independence from the Cuban regime. This is how.
    I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how the 
United States is supporting this crucial part of Cuban society 
while also advancing our mutual goals of democracy, human 
rights, and economic development.
    With that, I yield back to our chair.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Castro.
    And now other members of the committee are reminded that 
opening statements may be submitted for the record, and today 
we have a panel of witnesses from the State Department who work 
closely with issues surrounding the bilateral relationship 
between the United States and Cuba.
    Mr. Eric Jacobstein is the deputy assistant secretary for 
the Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs in the United States 
Department of State and Mr. Enrique Roig is the deputy 
assistant secretary for the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, 
and Labor at the Department of State.
    And thank you for being here today. Once again, your full 
statements will be made part of the record and I will ask each 
of you to keep your spoken remarks to around 5 minutes in order 
to allow time for member questions.
    I now recognize Mr. Jacobstein for his opening statement. 
Welcome, sir.

   STATEMENT OF ERIC JACOBSTEIN, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, 
 BUREAU OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Salazar, Ranking Member Castro, members of the 
subcommittee, I appreciate the opportunity to discuss the 
Biden-Harris Administration's support for the Cuban people 
including through encouraging the growth of the independent 
private sector.
    I plan to share our observations on the evolution in Cuba's 
economy and private sector, discuss deep concerns we have about 
the Cuban government's ongoing abuse of human rights, and our 
corresponding efforts to maximize support for the Cuban people 
while minimizing benefit for the Cuban government.
    The Cuban economy is in dire straits. Amid recurring 
shortages of fuel, electricity, and increasingly even food it 
is clear that the communist experiment in Cuba has failed and 
the government is not able to provide for its citizens' most 
basic needs.
    In a country where there are no free elections the Cuban 
people are voting with their feet. Roughly 500,000 Cubans 
migrated to the United States in the last two fiscal years 
using both lawful pathways and dangerous irregular migration 
routes, with tens of thousands more leaving for other 
countries.
    In May 2022, our Administration announced policy measures 
focused on empowering the Cuban people including support for 
Cuba's private sector, and these changes are in our national 
security interest and they're consistent with President Biden's 
guidance to benefit the Cuban people while continuing to deny 
resources to the Cuban regime.
    Against this backdrop, we have seen the Cuban government 
grudgingly open space to a nascent yet growing private sector. 
While Cuentapropistas, or self-employed proprietors, have been 
legal for some years, in 2021 the Cuban government also 
legalized the creation of small and medium-sized enterprises.
    With over 10,000 private businesses registered, operating 
in diverse fields from food distribution to construction to 
auto repair, Cuba's private sector is now responsible for 
nearly one-third of all employment on the island.
    And these changes have profoundly affected Cuban culture. 
Young Cubans are eager to earn private sector wages rather than 
work for the State. A class of independent business leaders is 
emerging.
    I know this because our team both in Havana and Washington 
routinely meets with these individuals, and I had the chance to 
meet with a group of them just this week virtually.
    Despite enormous challenges, these individuals report 
feeling energized by the prospect of no longer relying on the 
government and instead shaping their own economic destiny. 
These entrepreneurs look to the United States for inspiration 
and to develop the necessary skills to run successful 
businesses.
    To that end, the State Department has supported programs 
that help to foster essential skills and know-how among 
independent Cuban entrepreneurs. In an acute twist of irony the 
island's communist government must now rely on a private 
enterprise to provide food and basic services for its people. 
It is not an easy road for these entrepreneurs.
    The Cuban government's mismanagement of its economy has led 
to unparalleled high inflation. But because it is more nimble 
and efficient than the government the private sector currently 
serves as a life preserver for the Cuban people without which 
they could not stay afloat.
    We believe that organic expansion of the Cuban private 
sector on the island led by the Cuban people themselves and not 
by any foreign government, is an opportunity that should not be 
wasted.
    Above all, we must encourage the freedom of Cuban citizens 
to define their own economic future. Failing to engage and 
support Cuba's private sector will leave space for Russia and 
the PRC to shape the direction of the Cuban economy. We must 
not allow this to happen.
    Cuban entrepreneurs prefer U.S. values and our economic 
model and see the United States as their business partner of 
choice, and we are focused on taking measures that inject a 
real sense of hope among the Cuban people and stem the tide of 
worsening humanitarian and migration conditions, all while 
remaining steadfast and promoting accountability for the Cuban 
government's continued abuses.
    Now, I want to close by noting the promotion of private 
enterprise is just one part of U.S. engagement in Cuba. We 
consistently advocate for Cubans' fundamental freedoms and 
press for the release of unjustly detained political prisoners.
    In our conversations with entrepreneurs and the Cuban 
government, we emphasize the importance of respecting labor 
rights of Cuban entrepreneurs and all Cuban workers.
    We've facilitated the resumption and expansion of 
remittances and flights between the United States and cities 
outside Havana and we have expanded access to safe and lawful 
migration pathways in support of Cuban-American families.
    Our Embassy in Havana resumed full immigrant visa 
processing, and the Department of Homeland Security implemented 
a modernized process for the Cuban family reunification 
program.
    We increased tourist visa validity, which brought immediate 
tangible benefits to Cubans visiting family and purchasing 
goods in the United States.
    In sum, our approach continues to support everyday Cubans 
while promoting accountability for the Cuban government's 
abuses.
    Thank you very much for the opportunity and I look forward 
to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Jacobstein:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Jacobstein.
    I now recognize Mr. Roig for his opening statement.

 STATEMENT OF ENRIQUE ROIG, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU 
OF DEMOCRACY, HUMAN RIGHTS, AND LABOR, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE

    Mr. Roig. Thank you.
    Chairwoman Salazar, Ranking Member Castro, and 
distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today on our efforts to support human 
rights in Cuba, a key Biden-Harris Administration priority.
    Unfortunately, the human rights situation in Cuba remains 
abysmal. The repressive environment combined with a disastrous 
economy has prompted a mass exodus from the island, including 
of youth activists and human rights defenders.
    The efforts of the State Department's Bureau of Democracy, 
Human Rights, and Labor to promote human rights in Cuba 
includes over $6 million in foreign assistance programs 
annually.
    Our initiatives incorporate human rights documentation and 
advocacy including those related to freedom of religion or 
belief in freedom of expression. We also support documentation 
of labor rights violations and advocacy targeting international 
labor bodies and labor union confederations.
    Our implementers strengthen fact-based reporting and the 
professionalism of independent media and our efforts have 
increased access to information including by assisting in 
circumventing internet censorship on island.
    Recently, I met with a range of civil society actors in 
Miami, who are deeply engaged on many issues relating to Cuba. 
Two issues came up repeatedly which I know are of concern to 
the subcommittee.
    First, the plight of unjustly detained political prisoners 
and, second, Cuban workers including medical professionals who 
may be the victims of human trafficking and exploitation 
through Cuba's labor export program.
    I would therefore like to discuss each of these topics in 
greater detail. Civil society estimates that there are 
approximately 1,000 unjustly detained political prisoners in 
Cuba.
    Reports describe how they are subjected to mistreatment 
including what involves isolation, denial of visits by family 
members, and lack of access to health care. Political prisoners 
have also reported that fellow inmates acting on orders from or 
with the permission of prison authorities beat, threatened, 
intimidated, and harassed them.
    To call attention to their plight many political prisoners 
have engaged in hunger strikes. Our campaign to free unjustly 
detained political prisoners without just cause highlighted two 
Cuban prisoners, Maykel ``Osorbo'' Castillo and 
Joseaniel Ferrer. Unfortunately, they remain behind 
bars so we continue to advocate bilaterally for their release.
    We also highlight the political prisoner problem in 
multilateral contexts. For example, Assistant Secretary for 
Western Hemisphere Affairs Brian Nichols and I participated in 
a September 19th roundtable on the margins of the U.N. General 
Assembly that shed light on the plight of unjustly detained 
political prisoners.
    And also our department programming supports civil society-
led advocacy in international fora. For example, under a 
department program details on nearly 1,000 individual cases of 
human rights violations were submitted to international human 
rights bodies.
    Programs support groups to engage with the U.N. Committee 
for the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against 
Women, the U.N. Working Group on arbitrary detentions, and the 
special rapporteur on torture and other cruel, inhumane, or 
degrading treatment or punishment, among others.
    The department also supported organizations who drafted and 
submitted shadow reports to the United Nations Human Rights 
Council for the 2023 Cuba Universal Periodic Review. The 
reports covered political prisoners, politically and 
religiously motivated repression, torture, gender-based 
violence, sedition cases, and labor rights.
    And to promote further accountability in July 2022 the 
department took steps to impose visa restrictions on 28 Cuban 
officials who had enabled unjust detentions and sham trials of 
hundreds of peaceful protesters who are now political 
prisoners.
    Let me now turn to the issue of trafficking in persons. 
Cuba's labor export program which includes medical missions is 
particularly concerning. Through this program the Cuban 
government sends tens of thousands of workers around the globe 
under multi-year cooperative agreements negotiated with 
receiving countries.
    Workers have reported having their passports confiscated 
and their movements restricted by the Cuban government. They 
work long hours often under dangerous or degrading conditions 
and are surveilled, threatened, and in some cases even sexually 
harassed.
    Workers reportedly receive only 5 to 25 percent of their 
salary with salaries retained in bank accounts they do not 
fully control and seized by the Cuban government if they leave 
the program. Exploitation of the workers in the labor export 
program includes banning those who flee it from returning to 
Cuba for up to 8 years.
    And so to confront this degrading practice the department 
has increased bilateral engagement with countries hosting Cuban 
workers to promote awareness of Cuba's exploitative practices 
and urge countries to uphold their international obligations, 
follow best labor and human rights practices, and protect 
trafficking victims.
    The Office to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons has 
prioritized this issue and in September its Ambassador Cindy 
Dyer traveled to Miami to engage with civil society actors and 
hear directly from survivors.
    So as you can see, Chairwoman and members of the 
subcommittee, we take the issue of human rights in Cuba very 
seriously and we look to address it at every turn.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today. I 
look forward to your questions and to working closely with the 
committee in the future. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Roig:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Roig. Very well said.
    I now recognize myself for 5 minutes of questioning. I'm 
very happy that the State Department recognizes the human 
trafficking of doctors, something despicable.
    I mean, you cannot leave with your wife or with your kids, 
you only make 5 percent of whatever the country pays to the 
regime, and if you want to access the rest of the money you 
cannot until you go back to Cuba. That's called slavery. So 
thank you for bringing that up.
    And to you, Mr. Jacobstein, thank you once again for being 
here. We had had the opportunity to talk to each other so I'm 
very happy that we're going to be able to speak again.
    First and foremost, I just want to highlight that you and 
I, we're on the same page. We want the same thing. I'm the 
first one who wants to be convinced that in a totalitarian 
regime, as I said to the gentle Congresswoman from California, 
the Cuban revolution is probably the most cruel and the most 
repressive revolution that the Western Hemisphere has seen 
since the arrival of Christopher Columbus.
    That was many years ago. This was in 1492. We're talking 
about people who have brought repression to scientific levels, 
where the invincibility of the regime is in the heart of the 
average Cuban.
    That's why they would rather catch a raft, meet the sharks 
in the strait of Florida and reach the city that I represent, 
the city of Havana. So we're talking about people who are 
completely different. We're talking to Hamas. They are the 
Hamas of the hemisphere.
    Now you are telling me that there is this flourishing small 
and middle size businesses who are independent from the 
regime--totalitarian regime controls--that has controlled for 
62 years every single aspect of the Cuban population.
    Now you're telling me that this phenomenon is occurring and 
that you and I will want to help them? Of course, of course, 
and I would love for you to convince not only me but the Cuban 
exile community that I represent that this is true. And I'm 
sure that you are going to be able to hear different reasons 
why, according to your statement, this is really happening.
    But the first question is is the Biden Administration 
planning to give the, quote, ``MIPYMEs'' access to the United 
States banking sector? Yes or no.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much for the question, Madam 
Chair.
    As you know, in May 2022 we announced a series of measures 
to support the Cuban people and one of those--and of those 
measures the majority have been implemented including 
remittances, including a number of the issues I spoke to 
already.
    In terms of the private sector, we have not yet implemented 
those regulations and will provide further information when we 
have it.
    Ms. Salazar. But are you thinking about it? Because opening 
the American banking sector those are major words because we're 
talking about then providing loans to those supposedly small 
business owners.
    Are you planning to open the American banking sector to the 
Cuban MIPYMEs, as they call them?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, ma'am.
    I do not have further information on specific regulatory 
changes at this time.
    Ms. Salazar. OK. Make sure that you send the word back to 
the State Department that that is not going to be a very good 
idea because, No. 1, that violates the United States embargo, 
which happens to be codified in the U.S. Congress, as I'm sure 
you know.
    Now, let's go back to----
    Mr. Jacobstein. Any actions we would take would be done 
under the law.
    Ms. Salazar. Please--yes, that's exactly what I want to 
hear, that whatever measures or regulations you're trying to 
implement are going to follow the United States law meaning the 
United States embargo or the United States embargo against the 
island of Cuba.
    Unfortunately, because the real embargo is against the 
regime the regime has it against its own people because you and 
I agree that if tomorrow morning the Cuban regime decides to 
lift the embargo that they have on the Cuban people we would be 
very close friends, right? Don't you agree?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I would always be happy to be a very close 
friend of yours.
    Ms. Salazar. No, no, not of me, of the Cuban people. Well, 
thank you. I mean, I'm not sure about me. But I mean, I'm 
irrelevant. The United States would be a very close friend of 
the Cuban people if the Cuban regime decides tomorrow morning 
to lift the embargo they have on their people.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely. We have continually focused on 
holding the regime accountable and supporting the Cuban people. 
That's our focus.
    Ms. Salazar. OK. So then now with the MIPYMEs how do you 
know that these are not just fronts or most of them? We're 
talking about 9,000 of them. Supposedly they're produced--
they're hiring 250,000 people--Cubans.
    How do you know that this is not a facade?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, ma'am.
    I know there's been much debate in the press and on social 
media about the true measure of independence of Cuba's private 
sector. Our assessment is that there's a range of actors 
working in the Cuban economy, and some would like to speak in 
absolutes here. We do not think it's about absolutes, that 
either the Cuban economy is completely free and independent or 
it is still 100 percent dominated by the government of Cuba and 
its cronies.
    Our Embassy's assessment speaks to a more nuanced approach 
here and our approach, therefore, must be more nuanced as well, 
and as I----
    Ms. Salazar. What you're trying to tell me is that you're 
willing--as long as you're willing to--as long as you're 
helping some Cubans who have some independence from the regime, 
it's inevitable that you would have to help some of the kids of 
the regime?
    Mr. Jacobstein. No, I'm not saying that.
    Ms. Salazar. So then what are you saying?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I spoke with Cuban independent 
entrepreneurs this week. I have many times in the past. These 
are people who are as far as possible from the Cuban regime. 
These are individuals suffering under the economic 
mismanagement of the regime.
    These are individuals who are making very tough economic 
choices. They told me, "You do not understand. As a private 
sector we have it worse here in Cuba than any private sector in 
the world." They're struggling because of economic 
mismanagement and so----
    Ms. Salazar. Oh, I hear it. But, once again, I say that's 
in the hands of the regime. They could--they could lessen those 
hardships in a minute.
    Now, let me just give you an example. I called a friend 
that I have in Havana and she said, look, La Panaderia La 
Antilla that is in Calsavo del Serro 1571. Used to belong or 
provide pan--bread--to el Ministerio del Interior.
    They closed and 2 weeks after they reopened as a MIPYME 
right there. Then how can you make sure that you're not going 
to be helping those people who are the oppressors? Because I'm 
sure you do not want to be helping the oppressors. You want to 
be helping the oppressed. Tell me.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you.
    Our Embassy staff in Havana regularly engages with 
entrepreneurs and often visits their place of business and they 
hold ongoing conversations with these individuals.
    So any derogatory information received on an entrepreneur 
is reviewed carefully and shared as appropriate within the 
interagency and we'd welcome any information you'd like to 
share with us.
    Ms. Salazar. And I'm sure that I'm going to be feeding you 
a lot of it.
    Now, the imports. You know that there's something called 
GAESA which is this institution that belongs to the military 
that controls every money that flows in and out of Cuba. So how 
is the Biden Administration going to help just the Cuban people 
without going through GAESA, which is the one that controls the 
flows of dollars? How do you do that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you. This is a complicated situation. 
It's very tough, and we do not speak in absolutes here. We need 
nuance if we really want to focus on----
    Ms. Salazar. Speak nuanced means that you do have to be 
sleeping with the devil. Is that what you're telling me? 
Speaking nuanced?
    Mr. Jacobstein. No. I think it means that if we're 
supporting the Cuban people, we have to work within the system 
that exists. This is difficult. We wish it didn't.
    As I said, the private sector is suffering. They admit that 
and we're looking for all means possible to support that Cuban 
sector as the humanitarian crisis on the island deepens and as 
out migration continues.
    Ms. Salazar. Unfortunately, you have to deal with the 
regime and you know it.
    Now, there's another one called Guajirito that has $15 
million in exports. Could you imagine a regular Cuban having 
$50 million dollars in exports? Wow, that's great.
    Who is Guajirito? Who do you think they are? Because they 
are being showcased by the Cuban regime. Do you think that the 
average Cuban could have an enterprise that exports $50 
million?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely not, and these businesses tend 
to be extremely small.
    Ms. Salazar. All right. Then tell me. Tell me.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes. Ma'am, these businesses tend to be 
extremely small, suffering. These are individuals who told me--
--
    Ms. Salazar. The real ones you mean? The real--the ones 
that are not Enchufados with the regime?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes. The independent entrepreneurs are 
about one-third of the economy, 10,000 small and medium-sized 
enterprises.
    Ms. Salazar. Right. I will just ask you one more question 
and then I will recognize my fellow members of the 
subcommittee.
    On November 20th of 2023 the United States Embassy in 
Havana hosted a concert for a hip hop artist who happens to be 
a convicted felon called Big Freedia and on June you showed a 
movie ``Changing the Game'', which is about biological men 
competing in women's sports.
    What does that have to do with advancing the freedom in 
Cuba?
    Mr. Jacobstein. So the U.S. Embassy in Havana, through our 
public diplomacy section, engages in a wide range of activities 
to advance U.S. foreign policy goals in Cuba, including respect 
for human rights.
    So events that focus on the human rights of individuals 
belong to often marginalized communities as Big Freedia, a 
member of the African-American community, LGBT community. 
Events such as the program with her help us to engage wider and 
younger audiences, and during her visit Big Freedia drew on the 
popularity of her music and performances to engage in a wide 
range of discussions with the LGBTQ+ population, with the Afro 
Cuban population, and shared history on the importance of Black 
cultural influence in music----
    Ms. Salazar. I think--Mr. Jacobstein, I believe that maybe 
the Cubans--the average Cuban who loves and adores the United 
States would like to be receiving something different, maybe 
something a little bit more edifying, more gratifying from the 
United States Embassy.
    I'm not saying that these are not important topics but for 
the average Cuban who's suffering exactly what you guys just 
told me just maybe we should send word to the Embassy that 
maybe the Cubans will want to see something else coming from 
the United States.
    Now I yield back.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman.
    I want to say I support the proposed reforms and I hope 
that they ultimately get implemented. I think it would 
represent progress. I think we probably all agree that we want 
to see Cuba change. The question is how does that happen.
    Does it happen with the same isolationist arm's length 
policy that we have pursued for the last 60 years that has made 
Cuba weaker, poorer, that has thrown it into the arms of Russia 
and China? Or does it help through engagement?
    Now, the private sector in Cuba is made up not just--there 
may be some folks who are fronts for the government. But it's 
my understanding that a lot of these folks are regular Cubans. 
Is that correct?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Absolutely. Yes.
    Mr. Castro. Can you tell us how the private sector is 
benefiting the Cuban people? Not the government but the Cuban 
people?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes, absolutely. Thank you for that 
question, and I had a good opportunity to speak with a number 
of these individuals just this week and these are cafe and 
restaurant owners, event producers, individuals who are having 
a really hard time getting--importing goods.
    So these are individuals who make no money from the State 
economy, who cannot survive, and this new way of business--30 
percent of the Cuban economy--this is really the future and, 
frankly, this is capitalism and this is what we want in Cuba.
    So when we're doing work, training individuals, whether 
it's on marketing, labor rights, or otherwise these are skills 
on capitalism. That is precisely what we need for these 
individuals who are really struggling.
    Mr. Castro. This is the creation of a market-based economy, 
the beginnings of it at least?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Precisely.
    Mr. Castro. And even--I know Chairwoman Salazar made the 
point about government fronts. But let's just assume that all 
of these businesses were run by somebody in the government or 
some agency.
    It would still represent a kind of transformation to a 
market-based economy, at least more than what you've seen right 
now. So even in the worst case scenario where all of it was run 
by the government, it is a new kind of market-based economy.
    I do not believe that's the case. Nothing I've seen or 
heard convinces me that that's the case. But it represents the 
Cuban government implicitly--the communist Cuban government 
implicitly admitting that they have to do something different 
than they've done for decades, and so that is a positive thing 
for us.
    The current situation is also dangerous for the Cuban 
people and for the United States and for Latin America because 
it has caused hundreds of thousands of Cubans to flee Cuba and 
make the dangerous trek to the United States.
    We speak often about addressing the challenges of migration 
and we talk about, well, we're going to put this many Border 
Patrol and we're going to put more surveillance and, you know, 
and there's going to be a bigger section of the wall in Texas.
    The longer-term solution is to help buildup the economies 
of these places and the safety of these places that people are 
fleeing, and so the private sector growing in Cuba to me 
represents one promising aspect of what's going on in the 
countries where people are fleeing in Latin America.
    I wanted to ask you a question about the embargo. These 
efforts to increase access to financial services, as I said, 
are welcome but I feel like we're ignoring the elephant in the 
room.
    If the goal is to help the Cuban private sector the 60-year 
embargo of Cuba, I believe, must end. So I wanted to ask you 
does the Administration continue to support the embargo and if 
so does the State Department have evidence to show that the 
embargo has accomplished its purpose?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, sir.
    We do not have any comment in terms of actions that 
Congress would have to take with regard to the embargo but 
certainly understand your perspective on this, and anything 
that we do in terms of reforms would be done under U.S. law.
    Mr. Castro. Now, a question on migration. Since 2021 3 
percent of Cubans have fled their country, the majority to the 
United States. In response the Biden Administration has 
expanded lawful pathways for Cubans to migrate to the United 
States including through access to humanitarian parole and 
family reunification programs.
    How vital is the President's parole authority in helping 
manage migration from Cuba?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you for that question, and you're 
absolutely right. This Administration has expanded lawful 
pathways in a way that has not been done in decades, and we 
have created lawful pathways for these individuals who seek 
entry in the United States including through the Cuba-Haiti-
Nicaragua-Venezuela parole program and the Cuba Family 
Reunification Parole Program.
    And with CHNV, the program I mentioned first, 68,000 Cubans 
have been able to have a legal pathway to the United States as 
of January 11th of this year under that program over the past 
year.
    So this has been a vital pathway as have--as has the CFRP.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Salazar. Do you have a little more?
    Mr. Castro. That's fine. No, I want the other members to be 
able to ask a question.
    Ms. Salazar. All right.
    Now, I yield. I recognize Mr. Green from the State of 
Tennessee.
    Mr. Green. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I want to thank our 
witnesses for appearing here today.
    When I see patients as a physician it's my first duty to 
make the proper diagnosis. Once I understand the cause of the 
medical problem then I can come up with a medical plan. The 
nature of the problem determines the nature of the solution. If 
you misdiagnose the problem your solution is going to be wrong 
or maybe even worse.
    There's no doubt that there's a crisis in Cuba. The country 
is impoverished. It's ruled by a tyrannical and corrupt regime.
    Its people are forced to endure egregious violations of 
human rights and political prisoners are detained, tortured, 
and killed. Everyone can agree on this.
    The million-dollar question, however, is who's at fault. 
The far left claim that this is a result of the U.S. embargo on 
the country and that the Trump era policy of maximum pressure 
on the Cuban people is to blame. But those making these wild 
assertions fail to ask why these policies were implemented in 
the first place.
    Cuba has suffered under a communist rule for 60 years with 
a vast majority of the economy owned or controlled by the 
regime. Now more than ever the Cuban regime is brutally 
repressing and punishing its civil society and violating the 
basic human rights of its citizens.
    Activist protesters and even bystanders are unjustly 
imprisoned and subject to torture and inhumane treatment that 
the Cuban regime dispenses upon its dissidents.
    The regime even engages in state-sponsored human 
trafficking, enriching itself off the profits of forced labor. 
Cuba is not impoverished because the United States refuses to 
do business with them. Russia, China, Venezuela, and several 
other less than reputable countries happily conduct business 
with the Cuban regime.
    Rather, the country is impoverished because the regime at 
every turn enriches itself at the people's expense and they 
viciously beat down anyone who questions their policies. That 
is communism, plain and simple, whether it's the Soviet--the 
former Soviet Union, the CCP, or the Cuban regime.
    Opening the United States to Cuba will not enrich the 
country. The corrupt government will not spontaneously root out 
corruption and redistribute the wealth back to the people.
    It will not release the thousands of political prisoners it 
has locked up and it will certainly not embrace the free market 
principles required to do business with the United States.
    The Cuban military is embedded in nearly every single 
business so the concept of a private sector is virtually 
nonexistent in the country.
    The only outcome to the Biden Administration easing 
pressure off the country is that the brutal Cuban regime will 
further gorge itself on the profits provided by American 
businesses and we will be complicit.
    The Cuban government through its military is metastasizing 
throughout Latin America. Anything that puts another dollar 
into the hands of the Cuban government will increase the export 
of that authoritarianism--Venezuela, Colombia, Bolivia, et 
cetera, et cetera.
    Doing so, putting money into the hands of this 
authoritarian regime, is almost as stupid as easing sanctions 
on Iran or trading $6 billion for five hostages.
    Now is not the time for us to ease up. Now is the time for 
the United States to hold strong in its steadfast commitment to 
ensure that the Western Hemisphere is truly free and 
prosperous.
    This Administration's ceaseless flirting with opening ties 
to Cuba will remove the only chance that the Cuban citizens 
have for freedom.
    It is no small thing for the Cuban regime to endure an 
embargo from the United States even with China and Russia as 
economic partners.
    If we remove the only leverage that we have to punish--to 
push for reform then the Cuban regime will have no reason to 
treat its people with dignity and respect.
    Thank you, Madam Chairwoman, and I yield.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Congressman Green.
    Now I recognize Congressman--Mr. Moskowitz from the State 
of Florida.
    Mr. Moskowitz. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman.
    I share many similarities with the positions that the 
chairwoman has stated today and in the past, and I do think 
there--whilst all the situations are obviously different I do 
think there are similarities in Iran and North Korea and Cuba 
and what's happening in Gaza.
    Yes, in all of those situations we support the Cuban 
people, we support the Iranian people, we support the people of 
North Korea. We support people who are oppressed everywhere.
    But the United States has to have policies against those 
regimes. Of course, you know, when you have opportunities to 
try to pivot and make progress we should take advantage of 
those in all instances.
    But I'm not convinced that the Cuban regime has afforded 
those opportunities. I just do not think we're there and so, 
look, we got to do everything we can to lessen the humanitarian 
crisis in Cuba, just like we have to try to lessen the 
humanitarian crisis in Gaza.
    But that does not mean that we should change our policies 
with the dictators and the totalitarian regimes that control 
these areas. And so, you know, I agree with a lot of my 
colleagues across the aisle here on their policies but I would 
remind them to talk to their colleagues that do not necessarily 
serve on Foreign Affairs but to talk to their Republican 
colleagues that are in the House and do not want to help give 
Ukraine money.
    But it's the very same logic here with what Russia is doing 
in Ukraine and the totalitarian regime that Putin is in Russia.
    And so these are all, you know, different sides of the coin 
but they share similarities, and so while we should be strong 
and unified where we can when it comes to Cuba I ask my 
colleagues on this committee on Foreign Affairs to talk to 
their Republican colleagues right now that are holding up 
support for money for Ukraine.
    I want to talk about China and I want to get to a couple 
questions. Mr. Jacobstein, this is for you.
    So, you know, many of my colleagues on the Democratic side 
and the Republican side share concerns about China's growing 
influence. It's why we set up the China Select Committee.
    We're seeing everywhere, and I saw this on my trip with 
Speaker McCarthy when we went around the globe, everywhere the 
United States creating a vacuum China is filling it, right, 
which is why the isolationist policies, again, of some of my 
colleagues are so dangerous because as we retract, China comes 
in.
    We're seeing their influence in Latin America, in Africa, 
in the Caribbean and, you know, last summer Secretary Blinken 
expressed his deep concerns about China's efforts and increased 
intelligence and military activities in Cuba.
    In this time some of those concerns have been expressed. 
What is your assessment of China's economic, diplomatic, and 
military presence in Cuba?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, Congressman.
    So we have advised Cuba on several levels that it's not in 
its interest to collaborate with the PRC on problematic 
activity. PRC assistance incurs long-term and nontransparent 
steep costs for countries globally, and Cuba is no different.
    You mentioned the comments that Secretary Blinken made in 
his June 20 statement on monitoring this closely and protecting 
our homeland and our interests here. We assess that our 
diplomatic outreach on this topic has slowed down the PRC's 
efforts to project and sustain its military power in Cuba and 
around the world, and we'll continue to use all potential tools 
in the Administration's toolkit, including targeted sanctions 
as appropriate to address these challenges.
    We remain confident that we can meet all of our security 
commitments at home and in the region, and I would note that 
efforts like supporting the Cuban private sector are precisely 
what we--the kinds of things that we can do to curb further 
Chinese influence. We want to be the ones in there influencing 
the private sector rather than the PRC or Russia.
    Mr. Moskowitz. In your opinion how or if at all has U.S. 
adversaries in addition to China sought to take advantage of 
Cuba's economic situation to pursue maybe their own strategic 
priorities?
    We see China doing that--if you want to elaborate--
obviously, but who else? And Russia, obviously.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes, I think--thank you for that. Russia is 
obviously another key example, and we remain concerned about 
Russia's activities in Cuba and we continue to take steps to 
counter it, and Russia and Cuba they frequently announce 
increased ties or trade deals. We seldom see much follow 
through from the Russian government, which is no surprise.
    But we know that Russia wants a more stable, authoritarian 
regime and it's important for us that we not cede space to 
Russia in the development of Cuba's nascent private sector.
    So that's why we feel our engagement in this space is 
important and to us remains the best way to counter Russia's 
malign economic influence.
    Mr. Moskowitz. And just in a hypothetical, just so we can 
kind of, you know, pique our interest, I mean, is there any 
evidence that if the United States were to change its posture 
at all that the regime would turn away from China and Russia?
    I have not seen it. I'm just curious if you have.
    Mr. Jacobstein. I certainly think when we're dealing with 
these independent entrepreneurs, they would benefit more from 
us, from the United States, from the U.S. Government, than from 
PRC and Russia officials. So I think that would be one key 
example where we can have influence.
    Mr. Moskowitz. Yes, because I heard that as I traveled the 
globe that they would--everyone would much rather do business 
with us than China or Russia.
    But I also do not see them retracting from China and Russia 
and the deals that they are making, and I'm seeing that from 
not just some of the countries I named earlier, even in Europe, 
quite frankly, with the deal we saw that Italy made. They're 
not getting out of that deal so quickly. So it's deeply 
concerning.
    I'll just wrap up with this. You know, I just want to make 
a suggestion to the majority. Listen, there are vast 
differences that we have, whether it's on this issue or other 
foreign policy issues. Lord knows I have differences with my 
folks in my own party, like, when it comes to Israel.
    But I think we should always allow members when they try to 
waive on to committee--even when we disagree and we think 
they're wrong we should always allow them to make their point 
and then beat them in the debate and point out why they're 
wrong.
    With that, I yield back. Thank you.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you. And I would like now to yield--I 
mean, to recognize Congressman Self from the State of Texas.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    First of all, on immigration our immigration issues are the 
Biden policies and parole that you are so proud of--parole 
abuse is one of the major issues with our immigration problem--
our illegal immigration problem.
    So let's do not kid ourselves that it has to do only with 
the Cuban State of the economy. The new deputy for the Border 
Patrol said if we simply instituted one policy, Remain in 
Mexico, we would cut down illegal immigration by 65 to 70 
percent.
    Second, I wish the Biden Administration took the issue of 
human rights in America as seriously, as you were saying, he 
takes them in Cuba. Cuba, as we know, has over a thousand 
people facing up to 25-year prison sentences--a thousand 
political prisoners in Cuba today. Today we have hundreds in a 
D.C. jail without conviction and being denied their 
constitutional right to a speedy trial.
    But I want to focus on one. In 2022 20 armed FBI agents 
showed up at this man's house at dawn and arrested him under 
the FACE Act, saying that he had pushed a man outside of a pro-
life clinic--I'm sorry, pro-abortion clinic. He was, 
thankfully, acquitted.
    But that's the Biden Administration's modus operandi. And 
when I get told, well, we may have a few bad apples at the top 
of the FBI, believe you me, Chris Wray was not in one of those 
vehicles. He was not one of those 20 agents that showed up at 
that man's house.
    And while I'm on the topic of abortion, I want to say that 
we have the great shame to be one of seven countries in the 
world that allow abortion past 20 weeks. We share that 
distinction with countries such as China, North Korea, 
Singapore, Vietnam. We have 27 states that have that standard 
or worse.
    So I do not find your testimony very credible but I hope 
that you would find credible The Economist, which I understand 
that you appreciate. As little as 2 weeks ago The Economist, 
not exactly a rag, has said that Cubans--Cuba's economy is in 
its worst state since the collapse of the Soviet Union in the 
1990's. Why would this not be the time to force regime change?
    I will tell you that political loyalty, according to The 
Economist, is still the factor in allowing any business to run 
and The Economist says that small tweaks to a rotten system 
will not be enough to stem Cuba's decline.
    We have said in enough hearings with the State Department 
here in the Foreign Affairs Committee to know that soft power 
does not stand up to the Chinese strong power--hard power--
their stronger power that they're using in the Global South as 
a whole very well.
    So I leave it at that. I do not find this human rights 
discussion very meaningful. And with that, I yield back, Madam 
Chair.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Congressman Self of Texas.
    Now I will recognize Congresswoman Kamlager-Dove from the 
State of California.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Thank you, Madam Chair.
    And I guess I just want to welcome everybody to the 
Twilight Zone. You know, first, I just have to say that Barbara 
Lee is not a pawn or a puppet or part of a scheme of Cuba.
    She is a black woman who was just silenced, denied her 
voice that she was rightfully elected to have, and I just have 
to say that that was shameful to watch as a woman of color to 
see another woman of color silence another woman of color in 
front of a room with a large number of women, and I hope that 
that is a practice that we do not continue.
    I'd also just like to say that it is--I do not understand 
the arguments that suggest you can economically repress a 
country and expect them to do something other than the few 
options that are available to them.
    You know, if Russia is handling all of Cuba's financial 
transactions, well, then you know what? By not engaging with 
them in a substantive, real thoughtful way we are in fact 
helping Russia to try to defeat Ukraine, especially when we are 
not supporting Ukraine and we are contributing to the sanctions 
and we are not taking Cuba off of SSOT.
    So we--it would be great if we could not talk in 
circularity and just have real honest discussions, 
understanding when we compartmentalize and when we do not 
because the reality is we have allies with countries all over 
the globe where we do not agree with every single action, 
behavior, or policy that they take.
    So to then practice purity with Cuba boggles my mind. U.S. 
policy toward Cuba seems perpetually stuck in the cold war, 
held hostage by those who are still in their feelings and who 
seemingly want to cripple the country entirely with little 
regard for whether it advances U.S. interests or increases the 
suffering of the Cuban people and the latest manifestation of 
this is a conspiracy theory about the dangers of a budding 
Cuban private sector that is clearly improving Cubans' quality 
of life and enabling people to reduce their dependence on a 
repressive regime, one I have seen because I've been to Cuba 
and I have visited the small businesses and I have talked to 
folks in the private sector who want more of it because it 
keeps them from having to be solely reliant on a government 
that cannot provide all of the needs it has declared itself to 
be able to do.
    It is counterproductive. And I'm also disappointed in the 
Biden Administration's inaction when it comes to reversing or 
meaningfully modifying 60 years of ineffective and 
counterproductive policy.
    Cuba is not a panacea. No place is. But in my mind, it does 
not meet the statutory definition of a State sponsor of 
terrorism, a designation that was arbitrarily reimposed in the 
final days of the Trump Administration.
    I'm trying to think the last time I heard of a Cuban 
terrorist killing hundreds of people, taking thousands hostage, 
shelling missiles all over the place. I will need help coming 
up with those names.
    So Assistant Deputy--Assistant Secretary Jacobstein, since 
you've been talking so much here in front of us what is the 
Administration's justification for Cuba's SSOT designation?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, Congresswoman.
    U.S. law establishes specific statutory criteria for 
rescinding a State sponsor of terrorism designation. Any future 
review of Cuba's status, should one occur, will be based on the 
law and criteria established by Congress.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Yes. So why are they still on the list?
    Mr. Jacobstein. So we note that the State sponsor of 
terrorism designation remains a specific tool to address 
governments of countries that repeatedly provide support for 
acts of international terrorism. Other tools exist to address 
nonterrorism concerns related to Cuba. But at any future----
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. I know you're in a pickle. I know you're 
in a pickle. I'm in a pickle here sitting here. Do you think 
that Cuba poses a threat similar to Iran, North Korea, or 
Syria?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I would just note again that any future 
review of Cuba's status, should one happen, would be based on 
law and criteria established by Congress.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. So if they were taken off the list would 
you say that there are other tools available to hold the Cuban 
regime accountable?
    Mr. Jacobstein. There absolutely are other tools to hold 
the Cuban regime accountable.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. OK. Yes, and do we try to use those?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes. I mean, Cuba is one of the most 
sanctioned countries in the world. So there's plenty of tools 
and also additional sanctions such as the Global Magnitsky 
sanctions that my colleague Deputy Assistant Secretary Roig 
spoke to following the July 11, 2021, protests.
    Ms. Kamlager-Dove. You're lucky my time is up. With that, I 
yield back.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Congresswoman. Now I recognize Mr. 
Stanton from the State of Arizona.
    Mr. Stanton. Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
    As a matter of professional courtesy to our colleague 
Representative Barbara Lee who was not able to waive onto this 
committee I wanted to take this opportunity to read the 
statement for the record that she would have made if she had 
been here to appear and present the information that she wanted 
to present to this committee.
    So this is a statement for the record by Hon. Barbara Lee 
of California.
    ``I want to thank my friend Ranking Member Joaquin Castro 
for inviting me to participate in this hearing. I'm outraged 
that Chair Salazar has taken the unprecedented step of 
objecting to me participating in this discussion.
    I've been working on United States policy toward Cuba for 
four decades since I was a staffer for the late great Ron 
Dellums and I believe I have something valuable to contribute 
to this conversation.
    One thing that I hope we can all agree on here is that the 
United States should support the efforts of the Cuban people to 
build a peaceful and prosperous society, one that can meet the 
hopes and needs of the Cuban people.
    We see the Cuban people organizing in the political space, 
the cultural space, and even the economic space. The Cuban 
people want to build a freer society but the United States 
policy is based on the idea that if we punish them just a 
little more we will make them succeed.
    We see the failure of this upside down policy everywhere. 
More Cubans are fleeing the island than ever before, adding to 
the humanitarian crisis.
    Do we really want to exacerbate a situation where life in 
Cuba is so unbearable that people will risk their lives to 
leave? Do we want the best and brightest, the Cubans most 
likely to inspire change in Cuba, to flee?
    In Cuba today we see a flowering of entrepreneurship unlike 
any we have seen before. Cuban government officials themselves 
are nervous about this independent economic activity and so far 
the response of too many people in Washington has been to try 
to make those entrepreneurs' lives harder. Does that make any 
sense?
    After six decades of failure it is long past time for the 
United States to try something different. The Obama 
Administration's effort to engage Cuba offered real hope that 
the Cuban people might have the chance to finally determine 
their own destiny free from the meddling of either the United 
States or Cuban governments.
    While politicians in Washington and Havana continue their 
petty squabbles it is the Cuban people who are paying the 
price. I hope this hearing can be the start of us all working 
together to create a smarter, more humane U.S. policy toward 
Cuba.''
    That's the statement of our colleague and friend 
Representative Barbara Lee.
    Now on my own behalf I want to say thank you to Madam Chair 
and Ranking Member Castro for holding this hearing today. Thank 
you to our witnesses for being here, and I want to say 
something about my friend, the former senator of Arizona Jeff 
Flake.
    Arizona's esteemed former senator Jeff Flake was an 
outspoken advocate for normalizing relations with Cuba. During 
his time in Congress he was among the American officials to 
finally bring American Alan Gross home after five long years in 
a Cuban prison.
    He worked across the aisle and with the Obama 
Administration to restore diplomatic relations with Cuba after 
half a century and he founded the bipartisan Cuba Working Group 
to push for fewer punitive economic restrictions, which are 
scapegoated by the Cuban government to cover its own failures.
    Senator Flake believed it's long past time we moved on from 
the conflicts of the past, that doing so not only furthered our 
shared goal of a free and democratic Cuba, it serves American 
interests and he emphasized, quote, ``These aren't just 
sanctions on Cubans, they are sanctions on Americans,'' and 
that's why we are here today.
    Record numbers of migrants from all over the world have 
been apprehended along the border in my home State of Arizona 
including an unprecedented number of Cubans. Not only are Cuban 
migrants making the dangerous 90-mile trip to the U.S. by sea, 
many are now making an even longer journey through Latin 
America to the U.S.-Mexico border driven by fears of 
persecution and economic desperation. In fact, since 2022 4 
percent of Cuba's population has migrated to the U.S.-Mexico 
border.
    Deputy Assistant Secretary Jacobstein and the Biden 
Administration has expanded lawful pathways for Cubans to 
migrate to the United States including through humanitarian 
patrol and family unification programs. We have also started 
bilateral talks on migration.
    How has this engagement resulted in better U.S.-Cuba 
cooperation on undocumented migration?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, Congressman.
    We have indeed worked to expand access to safe and lawful 
immigration pathways. In January 2023, as I noted, we announced 
the CHNV program which has expanded opportunities for Cubans, 
and it was essential to include Cubans, many of whom are 
fleeing the humanitarian crisis, and so those individuals can 
lawfully come to the United States.
    The U.S. Embassy in Havana also resumed full immigrant visa 
processing in January 2023, and the Department of Homeland 
Security resumed processing cases under the Cuban Family 
Reunification Parole Program in Havana in August 2022 and 
implemented a modernized program in August 2023.
    So all of this is critical. I led the delegation--the U.S. 
delegation--through migration talks in Havana in November, 
which is important. This is an island that's 90 miles away from 
us.
    We need to be in continual contact on issues that are in 
our interest and managing migration is in our national security 
interests.
    Mr. Stanton. Thank you very much for that answer.
    I hope that when the Democrats are in the majority, we hope 
next year, that a policy about offering the opportunity for 
members outside the committee to appear before the committees 
will be granted uniformly.
    I think it's just a professional courtesy for our 
colleagues. I did want to offer you or request unanimous 
consent that Representative Barbara Lee's written comments be 
submitted for the record.
    [The information referred to]

    [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5925.011
    
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you, Mr. Stanton of the State of 
Arizona.
    We have a few more minutes before votes are called. So to 
your chagrin I will ask a few more questions and then I'm going 
to give the same amount of time to the ranking member Mr. 
Castro.
    So, you know, there is, Mr. Jacobstein, the least thing 
that the Cuban regime--what the Cuban regime wants is for 
Democrats and Republicans to work together to help the average 
Cuban person.
    So that's why, as I told you from the beginning of this 
hearing, that we are on the same page. We do want to help that 
average insignificant Cuban that has no ties to the regime to 
have something like the board that I just presented.
    So I just want to make that really clear. You and I we're 
on the same page. So my question to you is this. How can we 
help you?
    How can we help this Administration to really help those 
small business owners in Cuba, I repeat, that have no contact 
or connections with the regime in order to open up a good store 
if they want to or to have their own privately owned business? 
What can we do together?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you very much for that question.
    I would encourage you the next time that some of these 
private entrepreneurs come to Washington, come to Miami, to 
meet with some of these individuals, to talk to them, to hear 
about their experience and ways that we can support them.
    Ms. Salazar. And we will do that. But then what about if I 
can feed you 50 names of 50 people who are trying to have a 
small business but they either have not been able to bribe the 
government official that needs to give them the license or that 
they have a lot of impediments and hurdles to get to what the 
Guajiritos or the other La Antilla which is the other bread 
station that I just mentioned?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I would be very----
    Ms. Salazar. If I were to give you names of people that 
want to be small business owners in Cuba could you commit to 
help those and call Havana and have conversations with Havana 
that these people should be included on that list? Could we do 
that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. I'd be very happy--I'd be very happy to 
review any information you provide to us.
    Ms. Salazar. No, not just reading. I'm talking about 
helping those people that we're going to be feeding you because 
now I'm going to make sure that through social media I'm going 
to call everyone in Cuba that would like to become a business 
owner to go and apply.
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you. Our Embassy continues to support 
the Cuban private sector. I'd be happy to review that list, 
share that with our Embassy in Havana to review as well.
    Ms. Salazar. But it's not only review the list. It's 
working with us and my office to make sure that those people 
that have no contact with the Cuban government be able to 
obtain the licenses because since the Biden Administration is 
so interested in making that sector grow, which I am too, so 
then why do not we work together to make the sector grow?
    But not just certain individuals. But I do need your help. 
I need the help from the State Department and the United States 
Embassy in Havana. Could I have that?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you. I cannot speak to a list I have 
not seen, but in theory we'd love to help individuals who want 
support in entrepreneurship.
    Ms. Salazar. And do you commit to helping those people that 
we're going to provide you?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Like I said, I cannot support--to commit to 
help individuals on lists that I have not seen, but we'd be 
happy to review and work with you.
    Ms. Salazar. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ranking Member, if you would like to ask a few other 
questions.
    Mr. Castro. Sure. I wanted to ask you how have China's and 
Russia's economic, diplomatic, and military presence in Cuba 
changed over the last few years?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Yes. No, thank you for that question. I 
think it's--I think it's important.
    You know, as I mentioned, our work with the private sector 
is really important as we continue to curb PRC influence. But 
we have seen that some of the PRC promises have not followed 
through--they've really not followed through on in a big way.
    So we continue to be concerned about this and would love to 
work with you. The PRC serves as Cuba's second largest trading 
partner after Venezuela but PRC investment in Cuba is limited 
and, you know, one example I'd give you a longstanding PRC-Cuba 
sugar trade agreement was suspended in 2023 when Cuba couldn't 
meet its 400,000 ton yearly agreed quota.
    So I think there's a lot of talk about cooperation, but we 
do not often see delivery from the PRC on these commitments.
    Mr. Castro. And also what's the role of the Cuban diaspora 
in the United States in supporting private sector businesses in 
Cuba and how has the State Department engaged with the Cuban 
diaspora and Cuban Americans in determining these policy 
shifts?
    Mr. Jacobstein. Thank you, Congressman.
    We are consistently in touch with the Cuban diaspora and 
welcome opportunities to do that even more so. Former 
Congressman Joe Garcia, who I know is in the audience today, 
has--and a number of other individuals have worked closely with 
independent Cuban entrepreneurs. They brought them to Miami, to 
other parts of the United States, to engage more deeply. So we 
are very much engaged on this and would love to do even more in 
this space.
    Mr. Castro. Thank you. I yield back.
    Ms. Salazar. All right. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    And so I thank the witnesses for their valuable testimony 
and the members for their questions. The members of the 
subcommittee may have some additional questions for the 
witnesses and we will ask you to respond to those in writing.
    And now pursuant to committee rules all members may have 5 
days to submit new statements, questions, and other materials 
for the record, subject to the length limitations.
    And without objection the committee adjourns--stands 
adjourned. Thank you to both of you for your testimony.
    [Whereupon, at 3:28 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

                                APPENDIX
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTTED FOR THE RECORD
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


                                 [all]