[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
AN OVERVIEW OF THE NATIONAL OCEANIC
AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION
BUDGET PROPOSAL FOR FISCAL YEAR 2025
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
AND TECHNOLOGY
OF THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JUNE 4, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-42
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-782PDF WASHINGTON : 2026
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HON. FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California, Ranking
RANDY WEBER, Texas Member
BRIAN BABIN, Texas SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
JIM BAIRD, Indiana HALEY STEVENS, Michigan
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
MIKE GARCIA, California DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
JAY OBERNOLTE, California ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina
DARRELL ISSA, California KEVIN MULLIN, California
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas JEFF JACKSON, North Carolina
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York EMILIA SYKES, Ohio
RYAN ZINKE, Montana MAXWELL FROST, Florida
SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida YADIRA CARAVEO, Colorado
DALE STRONG, Alabama SUMMER LEE, Pennsylvania
MAX MILLER, Ohio JENNIFER McCLELLAN, Virginia
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia GABE AMO, Rhode Island
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia SEAN CASTEN, Illinois,
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York Vice Ranking Member
TOM KEAN, New Jersey PAUL TONKO, New York
VACANCY
------
Subcommittee on Environment
HON. MAX MILLER, Ohio, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina,
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas Ranking Member
RYAN ZINKE, Montana SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia MAXWELL FROST, Florida
C O N T E N T S
June 4, 2024
Page
Hearing Charter.................................................. 2
Opening Statements
Statement by Representative Max Miller, Chairman, Subcommittee on
Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
House of Representatives....................................... 8
Written Statement............................................ 9
Statement by Representative Deborah Ross, Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 10
Written Statement............................................ 11
Written statement by Representative Zoe Lofgren, Ranking Member,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 12
Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Chairman, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 13
Written Statement............................................ 14
Witnesses:
Dr. Rick Spinrad, Administrator, National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration
Oral Statement............................................... 15
Written Statement............................................ 17
Discussion....................................................... 25
Appendix I: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Dr. Rick Spinrad, Administrator, National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration................................................. 38
Appendix II: Additional Material for the Record
Letters submitted by Representative Suzanne Bonamici,
Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives
``Oregon-based NANOOS core activities and Inflation Reduction
Act (IRA) plans,'' Dr. Jan Newton, NANOOS Executive
Director................................................... 56
Oregon Coastal Caucus, Rep. David Gomberg, Chair, et al...... 58
Letter submitted by Representative Bill Posey, Subcommittee on
Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
House of Representatives
To the Honorable Richard W. Spinrad, Ph.D., Administrator,
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, from Bill
Posey, Member of Congress, et al........................... 60
AN OVERVIEW OF THE NATIONAL OCEANIC
AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION
BUDGET PROPOSAL FOR FISCAL YEAR 2025
----------
TUESDAY, JUNE 4, 2024
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Environment,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 11:18 a.m., in
room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Max Miller
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Miller. The Committee will come to order. Without
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recesses of the
Committee at any time.
Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``An Overview of the
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) Budget
Proposal for Fiscal Year 2025.'' I now recognize myself for 5
minutes for an opening statement.
Good morning, and welcome to our hearing on NOAA's budget
proposal for the Fiscal Year of 2025. I'd like to welcome the
Under Secretary of Commerce for Oceans and Atmosphere and NOAA
Administrator Dr. Rick Spinrad as our sole witness this morning
to discuss the President's proposed budget for the agency.
Thank you for coming.
This conversation comes in an especially difficult time for
our economy. People across our country are struggling to pay
more for just about everything. Since President Biden was
inaugurated in January of 2021, the food price index has
increased by 21 percent, and the energy price index has
increased by 41 percent. Rising costs are unchecked.
Additionally, Federal spending is at a record high, and while
the increasing national debt is projected to slow economic
growth and suppress the growth of Americans' household income
over time.
All of that to say any talks around budget and spending
even at an agency like NOAA warrant careful consideration and
calculated decisions. The President has requested $6.5 billion
for NOAA's Fiscal Year 2025 budget. This would be a $242
million increase from the total appropriations that NOAA
received in Fiscal Year 2024. It's worth noting that NOAA
received an additional $2.6 billion in discretionary
appropriations from the infrastructure law, which remains
available until 2027. NOAA also received one-time influxes of
$3.3 billion in the Inflation Reduction Act and over $500
million in the Fiscal Year 2023 disaster supplemental bill.
NOAA has billions of dollars that it didn't just have a few
years ago. As this is the case with so many other agencies,
it's been a difficult adjustment for NOAA, as I know, to
responsibly spend all of this money and exceedingly hard for us
in Congress to determine how much of it has made it out the
door. Any successful business knows exactly how much money it
has before seeking a loan for more. NOAA should strive to do
the same and detail specific spending plans for their billions
of dollars before seeking additional increases. We need to
shift from the ``we need more'' mindset to maximize to what
we've been given.
As I mentioned, our current economic outlook clearly tells
us that current Federal spending is not sustainable. I'm not
placing the blame on NOAA, I want to be very clear, nor am I
advocating for drastic cuts at the agency. I would like to be
clear about that as well. Too many hardworking Americans rely
on the data they provide on a daily basis. But an honest
conversation is needed about funding priorities. As the budget
request accurately describes, NOAA provides the environmental
science information and services needed to protect the lives,
lifestyles, and livelihoods for all Americans. Therefore, when
making any budget decision, we should ask, does this program,
activity, or funding demonstrably protect lives and property?
I'm pleased to see that the budget includes manageable
increases for the Office of Marine and Aviation Operations and
the National Weather Service. These two offices are at the
forefront of innovation in extreme weather prediction that can
indeed save lives. My home State of Ohio has faced countless
tornadoes this year, and because of early warning systems and
accurate predictions, the loss of life has been minimal, thank
God.
Yet I am discouraged by the proposal to significantly
decrease the budget of the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric
Research (OAR). This office is developing our next-generation
radar, supporting technology transfers to commercialized
Federal research, and funding the 16 cooperative institutes,
which consist of 80 universities. Cutting funding in this
office means cutting our investment in the future and accurate
weather forecasting.
Nonetheless, I remain optimistic about NOAA's future and
working with you, Dr. Spinrad. I have no doubt that the
Administrator, in conversations of his own and developing this
budget, I'm confident we can productively work through
differences in opinion and work together to best advance NOAA's
mission. I look forward to hearing from the Administrator as we
look to support NOAA's lifesaving activities.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Miller follows:]
Good morning, and welcome to our hearing on NOAA's Budget
Proposal for Fiscal Year 2025.
I'd like to welcome the Under Secretary of Commerce for
Oceans and Atmosphere, and NOAA Administrator, Dr. Rick
Spinrad, as our sole witness this morning to discuss the
President's proposed budget for the agency.
This conversation comes at an especially difficult time for
our economy. People across our country are struggling to pay
more for just about everything. Since President Biden was
inaugurated in January 2021, the food price index has increased
by 21%, and the energy price index has increased by 41%. Rising
costs are unchecked.
Additionally, federal spending is at a record high, while
the increasing national debt is projected to slow economic
growth and suppress the growth of Americans' household income
over time. All of that to say, any talks around budget and
spending, even at an agency like NOAA, warrant careful
consideration and calculated decisions.
The President has requested $6.5 billion for NOAA's FY25
budget. This would be a $242 million increase from the total
appropriations that NOAA received in FY24.
It's worth noting that NOAA received an additional $2.6
billion in discretionary appropriations from the Infrastructure
Law, which remains available until 2027. NOAA also received
one-time influxes of $3.3 billion in the Inflation Reduction
Act and over $500 million in the FY23 Disaster Supplemental
bill.
NOAA has billions of dollars that it didn't have just a few
years ago. As is the case with so many other agencies, it's
been a difficult adjustment for NOAA to responsibly spend all
this money, and exceedingly hard for us in Congress to
determine how much of it has made it out the door.
Any successful business knows exactly how much money it has
before seeking a loan for more. NOAA should strive to do the
same and detail specific spending plans for their billions of
dollars before seeking additional increases. We need to shift
from the "we need more" mindset to "maximize what we've been
given."
As I mentioned, our current economic outlook clearly tells
us that current federal spending isn't sustainable. I'm not
placing the blame on NOAA, nor am I advocating for drastic cuts
at the agency - too many hard-working Americans rely on the
data they provide on a daily basis. But an honest conversation
is needed about funding priorities.
As the budget request accurately describes, NOAA provides
the environmental science, information, and services needed to
protect the lives, lifestyles, and livelihoods for all
Americans. Therefore, when making any budget decision, we
should ask: does this program, activity, or funding
demonstrably protect lives and property?
I'm pleased to see the budget includes manageable increases
for the Office of Marine and Aviation Operations and the
National Weather Service. These two offices are at the
forefront of innovation and extreme weather prediction that can
indeed save lives. My home state of Ohio has faced countless
tornadoes this year, and because of early warning systems and
accurate predictions, the loss of life has been minimal.
Yet, I'm discouraged by the proposal to significantly
decrease the budget of the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric
Research. This office is developing our next-generation radar,
supporting technology transfers to commercialize federal
research, and funding the 16 Cooperative Institutes, which
consist of 80 universities. Cutting funding in this office
means cutting our investment in the future and accurate weather
forecasting.
Nonetheless, I remain optimistic about NOAA's future. I
have no doubt that Administrator Spinrad had tough
conversations of his own in developing this budget. I'm
confident we can productively work through differences in
opinion and work together to best advance NOAA's mission.
I look forward to hearing from the Administrator as we look
to support NOAA's lifesaving activities.
Chairman Miller. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the
Environment Subcommittee, the gentlewoman from North Carolina,
for an opening statement.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chairman Miller.
I'm pleased to welcome Administrator Spinrad today to
discuss the Fiscal Year 2025 priorities of the National Oceanic
Atmospheric Administration as we celebrate National Oceans
Month and look forward to World Oceans Day on Saturday.
NOAA provides invaluable ocean, weather, and climate
research and services to our Nation. NOAA's execution of this
mission to protect lives and property through science,
stewardship, and service has always been a worthwhile
investment for the American taxpayers. NOAA's mission has only
become increasingly urgent and valuable due to the climate
change-induced increase and frequency of severe and extreme
weather events. Across the Nation, Americans look to NOAA for
critical and time-sensitive information when confronted with
natural phenomenon such as tornadoes, wildfires, hurricanes,
tsunamis, geomagnetic solar storms, and much more.
NOAA also supports the private sector and academia through
partnerships, as well as the generation of highly--high-quality
research and data products. Much of NOAA's lifesaving work and
accomplishments are carried out with little fanfare. Often,
NOAA's success manifests as the prevention of negative
consequences from natural hazards, and we thank you for that.
While NOAA's success can be difficult to recognize and
appreciate when disasters don't happen, we know that the quiet
hard work of NOAA scientists, meteorologists, pilots, and
administrators culminates in saved lives and reduced economic
losses. Though NOAA does an excellent job of executing its
mission, sustained investments in research, operations, and
communication should still be made to bolster the effectiveness
of the agency. NOAA's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request of $6.6
billion, a 4 percent increase over 2024 appropriations levels,
prioritizes investments in the next generation of weather
satellite infrastructure, an investment that will pay off. NOAA
also plans to expand its portfolio of climate services, which
will greatly benefit decisionmakers grappling with the effects
of climate change.
As skilled public servants form the backbone of NOAA's
scientific and operational endeavors, the agency also plans to
invest in much-needed retention and recruitment of its
excellent workforce. And I visited a National Weather Service
facility last week and met with several people who are saving
lives every day.
Despite the impressive and valuable array of initiatives
that NOAA plans for 2025, I'm concerned about the proposed
funding decreases to critical programs within the National
Ocean Service (NOS) and the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric
Research. These funding reductions would negatively impact
NOAA's capacity to execute coastal observations, ecosystem
protection, ocean exploration, innovative research, educational
outreach, and many more important functions that advance the
agency's mission. I hope we can discuss strategies to continue
the essential work of these programs, even under the
constraints of the Fiscal Responsibility Act.
While supplemental funding made available to NOAA under the
Inflation Reduction Act is being put to great use, and I'm
excited to hear more about those projects, I want to hear what
steps NOAA is taking to avoid a budgetary cliff for NOS and OAR
when those funds expire, especially considering proposed budget
reductions in the base budget for Fiscal Year 2025. I'm also
concerned about the majority's proposed topline appropriation
reductions of 6 percent to nondefense funding that would do
immense harm to NOAA and other critical science agencies within
the Federal Government.
Just over a week ago, NOAA announced it predicts an above-
normal 2024 Atlantic hurricane season. Now, more than ever, it
is essential that we invest in our Nation's scientific
leadership, including the ever-important sectors of weather,
climate, and ocean research. I look forward to hearing from
Administrator Spinrad about NOAA's admirable work and how
Congress can continue to support the agency.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Ross follows:]
Thank you, Chairman Miller. I am pleased to welcome
Administrator Spinrad today to discuss the fiscal year 2025
priorities of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric
Administration as we celebrate National Oceans Month and look
forward to World Oceans Day on Saturday.
NOAA provides invaluable ocean, weather, and climate
research and services to our nation. NOAA's execution of its
mission to protect lives and property through science,
stewardship, and service has always been a worthwhile
investment for American taxpayers. NOAA's mission has only
become increasingly urgent and valuable due to the climate
change-induced increase in the frequency and severity of
extreme weather events. Across the nation, Americans look to
NOAA for critical and time-sensitive information when
confronted with natural phenomena such as tornadoes, wildfires,
hurricanes, tsunamis, geomagnetic solar storms, and much more.
NOAA also supports the private sector and academia through
partnerships and as well as the generation of high-quality
research and data products.
Much of NOAA's life-saving work and accomplishments are
carried out with little fanfare. Often, NOAA's success
manifests as the prevention of negative consequences from
natural hazards. While NOAA's success can be difficult to
recognize and appreciate when disasters don't happen, we know
that the quiet, hard work of NOAA scientists, meteorologists,
pilots, and administrators culminates in saved lives and
reduced economic and losses.
Though NOAA does an excellent job executing its mission,
sustained investments in research, operations, and
communication should still be made to bolster the effectiveness
of the agency. NOAA's fiscal year 2025 budget request of 6.6
billion dollars, a 4% increase above the 2024 appropriations
level, prioritizes investments in the next generation of
weather satellite infrastructure - an investment that will pay
off. NOAA also plans to expand its portfolio of climate
services, which will greatly benefit decision-makers grappling
with the effects of climate change. As skilled public servants
form the backbone of NOAA's scientific and operational
endeavors, the agency also plans to invest in much-needed
retention and recruitment of its excellent workforce.
Despite the impressive and valuable array of initiatives
that NOAA plans for 2025, I am concerned about the proposed
funding decreases to critical programs within the National
Ocean Service and the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric
Research. These funding reductions would negatively impact
NOAA's capacity to execute coastal observations, ecosystem
protection, ocean exploration, innovative research, educational
outreach, and many more important functions that advance the
agency's mission. I hope that we can discuss strategies to
continue the essential work of these programs, even under the
constraints of the Fiscal Responsibility Act.
While supplemental funding made available to NOAA under the
Inflation Reduction Act is being put to great use-and I'm
excited to hear more about those projects-I want to hear what
steps NOAA is taking to avoid a budgetary cliff for NOS and OAR
when those funds expire, especially considering the proposed
reductions in base budget in FY 2025.
I am also concerned about the majority's proposed topline
appropriations reduction of 6% to non-defense funding that
would do immense harm to NOAA and other critical science
agencies within the federal government. Just over a week ago,
NOAA announced that it predicts an above-normal 2024 Atlantic
hurricane season. Now, more than ever, it is essential that we
invest in our nation's scientific leadership, including in the
ever-important sectors of weather, climate, and ocean research.
I look forward to hearing from Administrator Spinrad about
NOAA's admirable work and how Congress can continue to support
the agency.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Ms. Ross. And, Mr. Chairman, before I yield back, I ask
unanimous consent to enter the opening statement of Ranking
Member of the Full Committee, Ms. Lofgren, into the record.
Chairman Miller. Without objection.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]
Thank you, Chairman Miller and Ranking Member Ross for
holding this hearing on NOAA's Fiscal Year 2025 budget request.
Welcome back Dr. Spinrad, and thank you for your service and
leadership at NOAA.
NOAA's mission of science, service, and stewardship is
accomplished through many diverse programs and activities that
span the Earth's systems from the bottom of the ocean to the
sun. This critically important scientific agency is required to
understand and predict the changes in climate, weather, and
oceans;--conserve and manage coastal and marine ecosystems;--
and effectively communicate all of this information to the
right people in order to protect lives, property, and our
economy. This is no small feat, especially during this time of
constrained resources and the growing urgency to address
climate change.
Understandably, with its top line constrained by the Fiscal
Responsibility Act, NOAA had to make difficult decisions in its
fiscal year 2025 Request.
In NOAA's request, I am pleased to see the support for the
next generation of satellites. The environmental data used from
these satellites are critical to NOAA, commercial industries,
and other Federal and international partners in a wide range of
applications --including providing 95% of the data used in
weather forecast models. It was not that long ago that NOAA's
satellites were on the Government Accountability Office's high-
risk list due to a potential gap in coverage. To make sure
these environmental satellites do not rejoin that list, NOAA
must ensure there are no delays and no unnecessary cost
overruns. As these projects progress, I look forward to seeing
NOAA's plans to make certain they stay on track.
While there are other bright spots in the budget request, I
have a grave concern with NOAA's proposal to make steep cuts to
some of its research programs. NOAA's Office of Oceanic and
Atmospheric Research conducts critical weather, climate, and
ocean research that supports all the other line offices within
NOAA. This budget would bring invaluable research to a halt or
significantly delay any progress. For instance, the Joint
Technology Transfer Initiative, which incorporates research
into operations, would face a 90% decrease in funding. The U.S.
Weather Research Program which houses various weather phenomena
research projects- including fire weather and seasonal to
subseasonal prediction--would take a 20% hit to its budget.
Ocean Research will also take a devastating hit to its bottom
line. These types of cuts would be detrimental to the
prediction and response to our changing climate.
Last month, House Republican appropriators announced that
they have no plans to follow the agreement of the Fiscal
Responsibility Act. Instead, they intend to slash non-defense
spending by 6%. I worry that the President's budget proposal
for NOAA is making it even harder for the rest of us to fight
to restore NOAA's budget.
This committee has heard over and over the importance of
our scientific research. Robust funding for federal science
agencies, including NOAA, is necessary if want to be the world
leader in cutting edge research and technology.
Dr. Spinrad, I look forward to hearing from you on NOAA's
priorities for this upcoming fiscal year in these challenging
times and how this Committee can help support NOAA meet its
mission. Likewise, I look forward to working with my colleagues
on both sides of the aisle in securing the necessary
investments for NOAA.
I yield back.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you very much, Ms. Ross.
I now recognize the Chairman of the Full Committee, the
gentleman from Oklahoma, for an opening statement.
Chairman Lucas. Thank you, Chairman Miller, and thank you,
Administrator Spinrad, for being here.
I'm pleased to say that this is our first NOAA-related
hearing since the overwhelmingly bipartisan passage of the
Weather Act reauthorization on the House floor. I'll repeat the
same sentiment I said at that time. I cannot stress enough how
critical it is to invest in our Nation's weather system. That's
why I'm extremely disappointed after reviewing NOAA's proposed
budget. In the Weather Act reauthorization, we placed
additional responsibilities on the Weather and Air Chemistry
Programs within the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research
and increased authorizations for those programs. Three hundred
and ninety-four Members of Congress voted in support of this
effort.
This budget takes the opposite approach and decreases the
funding for the OAR office and the Weather and Air Chemistry
Research Programs. Yes, the budget request is simply a request.
And, at the end of the day, Congress controls the purse
strings, but the budget request is also a message to all
stakeholders and industry, and NOAA's message is this: The need
for improved early and accurate forecasting of severe weather
is not a priority for this Administration.
I'm also disappointed to see yet another proposed decrease
in the funding for the National Mesonet Program (NMP) and a
continued plan the flat-fund commercial data purchases. These
programs are golden opportunities--examples, I should say, of
how NOAA can supplement and even improve their weather data
inventory with cheaper, flexible industry efforts. Instead of
supporting these programs, NOAA is requesting significant
increases in the National Environmental Satellite Data and
Information Service in order to build out Federal satellite
constellations. While that is an admirable goal, I support
ensuring our next generation of satellites avoid gaps that can
affect NOAA's ability to weather forecast, and it shouldn't
come at the cost of decreasing commercial data.
As Chairman Miller noted out, recent supplemental
appropriation bills have ensured NOAA's coffers are well
stocked. It would seem logical to annually bolster programs
like the in NMP and the CDP and use one-time in fluxes for
keeping large projects on budget and on schedule. Additionally,
it seems prudent to test the usefulness of commercial data
before NOAA tries to collect data on their own through
expensive buildouts and federally owned instruments.
I sincerely hope this hearing brings us the opportunity to
hear NOAA's justification for the budget decisions, as well as
detailed updates on how they are using the billions of dollars
currently at the agency. And I look forward to continuing to
work with you, Administrator Spinrad. And I would note, I do a
lot of public townhall meetings back home, and frequently
people speak shall I say with me or to me or through me. I've
never spoken to you, Doctor. I've always spoken with you, and I
think we have a wonderful level of communication. But on this
day, much like my constituents, I'm using you as a conduit to
send a message back up the line, which I hope will be heard.
With that, I yield back the balance of my time, Mr.
Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Lucas follows:]
Thank you, Chairman Miller, and thank you Administrator
Spinrad for being here.
I'm pleased to say that this is our first NOAA related
hearing since the overwhelmingly bipartisan passage of the
Weather Act Reauthorization on the House Floor. I'll repeat the
same sentiment I said at that time: I cannot stress enough how
crucial it is to invest in our country's weather system.
That is why I'm extremely disappointed after reviewing
NOAA's proposed budget. In the Weather Act Reauthorization, we
place additional responsibilities on the Weather and Air
Chemistry Research programs within the Office of Oceanic and
Atmospheric Research and increase authorizations for those
programs. 394 Members of Congress voted in support of this
effort.
This budget takes the opposite approach and decreases the
funding for the OAR office and the Weather and Air Chemistry
Research programs.
Yes, the budget request is simply a request. At the end of
the day, Congress controls the purse strings. But the budget
request is also a message to all stakeholders and industry, and
NOAA's message is this: the need for improved early and
accurate forecasting of severe weather is not a priority of
this Administration.
I'm also disappointed to see yet another proposed decrease
in funding for the National Mesonet Program (NMP) and a
continued plan to flat fund Commercial Data Purchases (CDP).
These two programs are golden examples of how NOAA can
supplement and even improve their weather data inventory with
cheaper, flexible industry efforts. Instead of supporting these
programs, NOAA is requesting significant increases to the
National Environmental Satellite, Data, and Information Service
(NESDIS) in order to build out federal satellite
constellations.
While that is an admirable goal, and I support ensuring our
next generation of satellites avoid gaps that could affect
NOAA's ability in weather forecasting, it shouldn't come at the
cost of decreasing commercial data.
As Chairman Miller pointed out, recent supplemental
appropriations bills have ensured NOAA's coffers are well
stocked. It would seem logical to annually bolster programs
like the NMP and CDP and use one-time influxes for keeping
large projects on budget and on schedule.
Additionally, it seems prudent to test the usefulness of
commercial data before having NOAA try to collect data on their
own through expensive buildouts and federally owned
instruments.
I sincerely hope this hearing gives us the opportunity to
hear NOAA's justification for their budget decisions, as well
as detailed updates on how they are using the billions of
dollars currently at the agency. I look forward to continuing
to work with you, Administrator Spinrad, and I yield back the
balance of my time.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me introduce our witnesses. Richard ``Rick'' W.
Spinrad, Ph.D., was sworn in June 2021 as the Under Secretary
of Commerce for the Oceans and Atmosphere, and the 11th NOAA
Administrator. Dr. Spinrad is responsible for the strategic
direction and oversight of the agency and its over 12,000
employees. Earlier in his career, Dr. Spinrad held leadership
positions at the United States Office of Naval Research and
Oceanographer of the Navy, where he was awarded the
distinguished Civilian Service Award, the highest award given
by the United States Navy to a civilian.
Dr. Spinrad served as NOAA's chief scientist under
President Barack Obama from 2014 until 2016. He received his
B.A. in earth and planetary sciences from the Johns Hopkins
University, and his M.S. and Ph.D. in oceanography from Oregon
State University.
I now recognize Administrator Spinrad for 5 minutes to
present his testimony. And, Doctor, thank you for your service.
TESTIMONY OF DR. RICK SPINRAD, ADMINISTRATOR,
NATIONAL OCEANIC AND ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member
Ross, Chair Lucas, Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for
the opportunity to testify about NOAA's Fiscal Year 2025 budget
and a quick note of thanks for your very kind words about the
hard work of our workforce, especially over the last several
months. We appreciate the continued support of Congress, the
Administration, and our broad and diverse set of stakeholders.
For Fiscal Year 2025, NOAA's budget request proposes $6.6
billion in discretionary appropriations, an increase of $224
million from the Fiscal Year 2024 enacted level. This Fiscal
Year 2025 request will prioritize investments in critical
operational and infrastructure activities that support NOAA's
ability to carry out our mission across five thematic areas.
First, NOAA will invest in the next generation of
environmental satellites in order to provide significant
improvements in data and products to meet security, safety, and
prosperity needs of the Nation. NOAA uses industry's standard
acquisition procedures to ensure that we invest appropriately
and effectively.
Second, NOAA will address the climate crisis and strengthen
resilience. Specifically, NOAA will invest in increasing
conservation and protection in an expanded sanctuary system by
training the next generation of marine-protected area
professionals and expanding technology use to support
management priorities.
Third, NOAA will continue to provide critical science and
data to inform economic development. Notably, NOAA will
continue to work closely with the Department of Interior's
Bureau of Ocean Energy Management and others to maximize the
benefits of offshore wind.
Fourth, NOAA will integrate equity across the organization
by improving knowledge-sharing capabilities and service
delivery to tribal, rural, and urban communities.
And finally, NOAA will continue to reduce the deferred
maintenance and repair backlog across our facilities in order
to maintain operations, address safety issues, and ensure
mission capability.
This Fiscal Year 2025 budget builds on investments from the
Inflation Reduction Act and the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
I'm proud to share that, as of the end of Fiscal Year 2023, we
have awarded a total of $1.1 billion in IRA and BIL grants and
contracts. Some of our programs have seen 28 times more demand,
which equates to about $16 billion more than we have available
in funding, demonstrating the strong need for these types of
opportunities.
Additionally, NOAA is continuing to invest in a few other
notable areas. We're prioritizing funding for the current
satellite constellation, making the critical investments
necessary to maintain the development timelines for the most
mature next-generation satellite programs to expand delivery of
essential climate, weather, atmospheric, oceanographic, and
space weather information. NOAA will continue the development
of the GeoXO satellite program, which will provide sustained
observations for weather forecasting, real-time monitoring of
air quality conditions, and improved ocean forecasting and
fisheries management. These investments are needed now to
ensure NOAA continues to provide relevant, timely, and targeted
information support to prevent loss of life and property,
especially for underserved communities now and well into the
future.
In addition, NOAA is committed to investing in climate
research and providing actionable environmental information
that is the basis of smart policy and decisionmaking to improve
readiness. The National Weather Service will begin the work of
transforming the Advanced Weather Interactive Processing
System, or AWIPS, to a cloud framework, which will give
forecasters secure remote access to provide in-person impact-
based decision support services to decisionmakers anytime,
anywhere. These investments are absolutely necessary since
we've recorded seven disasters with losses exceeding $1 billion
each just this year. And after rolling out the hurricane season
outlook, we know it's going to be another very busy season.
And then lastly, the Fiscal Year 2025 request will support
enhanced fleet operations by improving maintenance, ensuring
competitive crew rotations, and implementing best safety
practices. This funding includes the addition of the NOAA ship
Oceanographer to the fleet and will allow us to deliver a total
of 2,840 days at sea. Similarly, the Fiscal Year 2025 request
will support flight hours to penetrate hurricanes and
atmospheric rivers. The Administration and I are fully
committed to the Hurricane Hunter mission, and these
investments are critical to meet mission requirements and
inform climate science and critical emergency services.
On almost a weekly basis now, we're bringing all of our
resources to bear, whether it's to directly support the Federal
response to the Francis Scott Key Bridge disaster, provide
tornado warnings in Iowa, or supply air quality guidance for
Minneapolis. Overall, with this 2025 budget request, NOAA will
be well-positioned to help support the communities we serve,
particularly those most vulnerable to climate change and its
impacts.
I look forward to working closely with you on each of these
initiatives and to discussing NOAA's mission more with you
today. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Spinrad follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Miller. Thank you for your testimony, Dr. Spinrad.
The Chair recognizes himself for 5 minutes of questions.
And real quick, I just wanted to say I like your style
today, blue tie, blue suit. We're doing the same thing. We
didn't coordinate that if any of you were wondering, but--all
right.
Dr. Spinrad. I'll get you a blue lapel pin, too, sir.
Chairman Miller. You promise?
Dr. Spinrad. Absolutely.
Chairman Miller. All right. Let's get it done.
Well, thank you for coming, Administrator Spinrad. It's
good to see you.
The weather enterprise is relying upon collaboration not
just between NOAA and domestic stakeholders, but international
partners as well. Global data sharing improves models across
the board and leads to greater accuracy and prediction
capabilities. However, in the current world landscape, there
can be bad actors. They go after its data and its users. How is
the department making sure that the national security is
prioritized and American interests are protected? And how does
NOAA monitor and evaluate international partnerships with
adversaries like China, Russia, or Iran?
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you for the question, Chair. This is a
critical issue for us, and there's a couple of ways that we go
about ensuring that national security is paramount in our
products and services. Internally, that is to say internal to
the U.S. Government, we have a number of very effective
relationships with our partners in DOD (Department of Defense).
I've got MOUs (memorandums of understanding) with Navy and Air
Force specifically, and we regularly meet to talk about what
are the joint requirements, what are the capabilities that
we've got to support each other in terms of providing products
and services.
We also work closely with the National Security Council.
And in fact, just this past year, we took the effort, we took
the initiative in the National Weather Service to embed one of
our Weather Service employees in the National Security Council
so that we can make sure we've got real-time connectivity and
we're not waiting for a phone tree to respond to these kinds of
issues.
Outside of the United States, outside of the U.S. Federal
Government we are active participants in the global dialog,
most notably through the World Meteorological Organization,
where the head of our National Weather Service sits as the
United States' permanent representative and can talk about
policies, practices, and programs that best serve our national
needs and also, quite honestly, leverage the capabilities and
capacities of our other allies around the world, so it's a
combination of internal and external activities.
Chairman Miller. Thank you. I appreciate that,
Administrator.
Earlier this Congress, I was proud to pass H.R. 1715, the
Advanced Weather Model Computing Development Act, through the
House of Representatives. This bipartisan, commonsense piece of
legislation requires the Department of Energy (DOE) and the
National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration to carry out
research on advancing weather and climate modeling and
prediction. What progress has been made at NOAA regarding using
HPCs high-performance computing) for weather modeling? And has
any progress been made in partnerships with other Federal
agencies that we have?
Dr. Spinrad. Yes, thank you, Chair, for that question as
well. The short answer to your question is, yes, a lot of
progress. I think you know that, in years past, and this year,
we're continuing to invest in our own high-performance
computing capacity. Not being satisfied that that will meet all
of our computational needs, we have also invested heavily
through MOUs and actual grants and contracts with the private
sector to provide cloud-based services. So a lot of what we're
trying to do in terms of HPC can be done in collaboration with
cloud service providers in the private sector. With respect to
the specific relationship--and I should add artificial
intelligence (AI) applications are part of that whole set of
HPC-based activities.
You specifically alluded to the relationship with DOE. I
couldn't be prouder to point out to you that, this week, in
partial celebration of Capitol Hill Ocean Week, I will be
signing an MOA (memorandum of agreement) with the Department of
Energy, part of which alludes to our joint activities in
leveraging each other's high-performance computing
capabilities.
Chairman Miller. That's awesome. I love to hear that.
I am done with my questions, but I just want to say thank
you and your team. We've had a great working relationship and a
couple of calls, and I just really appreciate--I mean, we may
never agree on every issue, and that's OK. I think we'd be kind
of nuts if we did. But all in all, I just really appreciate you
all working with our office and this Committee to work through
these issues and to highlight your priorities and President
Biden's priorities and his agenda and to see the differences. I
really appreciate your time this morning. I yield back.
I'm now going to recognize Ms. Bonamici out of Oregon for 5
minutes of questions.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Chairman Miller and Ranking Member
Ross.
Nice to see you Dr. Spinrad. Welcome back to the Committee.
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you.
Ms. Bonamici. You know, Administrator Spinrad, as an
Oregonian, that I represent a significant portion of the
magnificent Oregon coast. NOAA's Integrated Ocean Observing
System, or IOOS, is a critical program to collect, process, and
share ocean and coastal data, and that's used for navigation,
weather forecasting, fisheries management, coastal hazard
mitigation. Your budget request for Fiscal Year 2025 proposes a
$32.5 million cut, which is actually a 76 percent reduction in
IOOS funding.
The Northwest Association of Networked Ocean Observing
Systems, known as NANOOS, relies on this funding for their core
activities. And the proposed IRA-funded--or Inflation Reduction
Act-funded--projects to expand data collection and modeling
including for ocean health, erosion management, and supporting
tribal-led projects. But replacing base IOOS funding with IRA
resources will threaten the long-term program needs and I'm
concerned strain IOOS activities. The proposed cuts will
actually require NANOOS to remove their buoy and glider
observing assets and stop running models.
So, Administrator Spinrad, I'm concerned about some kind of
budgetary cliff when IRA funds expire. So what are NOAA's plans
to sustainably fund these critical IOOS programs?
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you, Congresswoman Bonamici. Good to see
you as well.
And I will share with you that IOOS, along with several
other programs we've got, reflect the very difficult decisions
that we had to make in this budget as a consequence in part of
the Fiscal Responsibility Act and the constraints that we had
there, but also our commitment to sustain current activities
such as those for keeping the next generation of satellites in
place and making sure our mission-essential functions were not
compromised in any way.
Nonetheless, the reduction in funding in IOOS is in part
being addressed by some of those IRA funds, but as your
question implied, not one for one. And so I have taken it upon
myself to sit down and meet with all of the IOOS regional
directors. I did that a couple of weeks ago. I'll be meeting
with the Pacific IOOS Director in Hawaii next week to
understand exactly what these mean. We've directed that data
management and cyber infrastructure be the specific activity
that is sustained.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. I want to get another question in,
and I don't want to stop you, but I have a related question.
And that has to do with tsunami mitigation.
Dr. Spinrad. Yes.
Ms. Bonamici. And I've heard from many of the coastal
communities--and again, you know, as an Oregonian, that we have
the Cascadia subduction zone and risk of tsunami. I've spoken
with them about the NOAA Tsunami Hazard Mitigation Program. And
that's used to raise awareness to prepare towns for disaster.
Coastal Oregon towns like Bay City, Seaside, they rely on those
high-quality models and timely alerts, and the residents know
that the accuracy of NOAA's tsunami systems is really a matter
of life and death.
So NOAA's budget proposes to eliminate funding for the
Tsunami Hazard Mitigation Program and reallocate that funding
to improve tsunami detection technology. So similar to the IOOS
funds, how can NOAA work to maintain tsunami mapping research
and education services and modernize its equipment without
compromising one priority for the other?
Dr. Spinrad. Yes, thank you for that question, and I share
your concern with respect to tsunami response, especially for
those kinds of tsunamis that the Cascadia 9.0 represents where
the ability to respond quickly is important.
What we have chosen to do, what we will do with the tsunami
program is provide a common framework, and that will enhance
the ability of communities to respond. Right now, our Alaska-
based and Hawaii-based tsunami offices, tsunami centers--
warning centers operate with different systems, which means the
warning we get to people is far from optimal. So by, if you
will, providing the common framework, the kind of operational
picture, the residents of the coastal communities in Oregon
will get a better predictive product than they had before. That
way, we're going to ensure continuity of operations.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Dr. Spinrad, and I look forward to
working with you and NOAA on these really critical programs for
coastal communities.
And, Mr. Chairman, as I yield back, I request unanimous
consent to enter into the record a document that outlines
Oregon NANOOS core activities and planned IRA projects that are
at risk from this budget proposal and also a letter from the
Oregon Coastal Caucus expressing concerns about the proposed
cuts to both NOAA's National Tsunami Hazard Mitigation Program.
And with that, happy Capitol Hill Oceans Week, and I yield
back.
Chairman Miller. Without objection.
Thank you, Ms. Bonamici.
I now recognize Mr. Posey for 5 minutes of questions.
Mr. Posey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Spinrad, regarding the misguided East Coast vessel
speed limit rule for the right whales, why did NOAA meet with
several outside groups such as the Center for Biological
Diversity, but not the National Marine Manufacturers
Association, prior to the proposed rule being published?
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you for the question. As you know,
Congressman, the issue of vessel speed rule in North Atlantic
right whales is paramount for us and trying to find a solution
that addresses the concerns and the responsibilities that we've
got with regard to protection of those species under the law
and also balance the economic development issues associated
with boating is critical. The rule right now is with OIRA
(Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs) and OMB (Office
of Management and Budget), so I won't get into very specific
details.
But I want to address your question. And the question is
really one of how did we engage and get comment and impact. And
in fact, we, myself, the head of the National Marine Fisheries
Service, have had discussions with that association. We also
received over 90,000 public comments, including from the
association on the proposed rule. And so I feel confident in
telling you that we have addressed, accommodated, and listened
to all of those comments and incorporated that thinking into
the rule that is now under consideration at OMB.
Mr. Posey. Yes, but the question was, why didn't you talk
to the marine manufactures prior to that?
Dr. Spinrad. Well, they were part of the discussion.
Mr. Posey. Oh, they they have indicated they weren't before
the rule was written. Am I correct, we're still talking about
less than an average of one right whale death per year from
strikes. Is that correct?
Dr. Spinrad. Well, in fact, just this year alone, we've had
four deaths, one from entanglements, three from strikes, two
off Georgia, one off Florida, and that's just so far this year.
And those are unquestionably attributable. I've got, in fact,
an example of a whale strike off Georgia. These are happening
this year. We have seen a considerable number. And the
Canadians also have had similar.
Mr. Posey. Any indication how many from the Northeast from
the alternative power uses like the windmills and stuff?
Dr. Spinrad. There's no indication that the offshore wind
development has an adverse impact on the whales, on their
migration or their health.
Mr. Posey. OK. What specific topics were discussed at the
May 22 Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs meeting,
including any specific requests by outside groups or agency
action and any NOAA responses provided? That was in a letter I
sent you of April.
Dr. Spinrad. Yes, we've got that letter. We're going to
respond to that letter. I cannot comment on OIRA's behalf, but
we'll certainly take that for response.
Mr. Posey. Besides the May 22 Office of Information and
Regulatory Affairs meeting, has NOAA met with any other outside
groups prior to the rule being published?
Dr. Spinrad. We had meeting--like I said, through the
comment period and through discussions, we had quite a few
meetings and discussions, yes.
Mr. Posey. Can you identify some of them for me?
Dr. Spinrad. We'd be glad to respond for the record with
the list of those we've met with and commented.
Mr. Posey. Are you aware of our April 26 letter which you
just----
Dr. Spinrad. Yes.
Mr. Posey [continuing]. Acknowledged? And I'm just
wondering when we might expect a response from it.
Dr. Spinrad. We're working on it, sir. It's got to go
through the top chain at the Department of Commerce. And I
don't have a specific date for you, but I assure you, it's got
our attention, and we are developing a response.
Mr. Posey. So 6 months, a year? I mean, just ballpark it.
Dr. Spinrad. I can't give you an estimate.
Mr. Posey. So it could be never?
Dr. Spinrad. No, we will respond to your letter.
Mr. Posey. Is it going to be in 3 years?
Dr. Spinrad. I cannot give you a response. I'm going to do
everything in my capacity to ensure we get a timely response
back to you.
Mr. Posey. So it could possibly be 3 years?
Dr. Spinrad. I don't think it would be. I think it would be
much sooner than that.
Mr. Posey. OK. Less than 2 years?
Dr. Spinrad. I can't answer that, sir.
Mr. Posey. Yes, so it could be 2 years before you give me
an answer.
Dr. Spinrad. It's going to be answered as efficiently and
effectively as we can.
Mr. Posey. But not 3 years from now. You said no, but it
could be as much as 2 years?
Dr. Spinrad. I don't expect it would be 3 years. I can't
give you an exact date.
Mr. Posey. OK. But you can't say--it could be----
Dr. Spinrad. I can't give you an exact date.
Mr. Posey. Yes. Wow. Mr. Chairman, I'd like to, without
objection, have, as a matter of the record, my letter to NOAA
dated April 26.
Chairman Miller. Without objection.
Mr. Posey. I yield back. Thank you, sir.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Posey.
I now recognize Ms. Ross for 5 minutes of questioning.
Ms. Ross. Dr. Spinrad, thank you again for being with us
today.
For decades, climate change has been the subject of
political attacks. Less than 2 weeks ago, a massive storm swept
across the United States, claiming at least 22 lives.
Windstorms, flooding, heat waves, and other severe weather have
all been increasing in ferocity and frequency and not just in
the United States. But every American sees it here with our own
eyes, and yet some in the majority party continue to question
the science of climate change and use it as an excuse to attack
our premier client--climate science agency.
Dr. Spinrad, NOAA collects and disseminates publicly
accessible environmental data and produces world-leading
climate research and information. What processes and procedures
does NOAA have in place to ensure that its science is reliable,
accurate, and follows the highest of scientific standards?
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you, Ranking Member Ross, for that very
important question. As a science-based agency, we at NOAA pride
ourselves on the scientific quality, accuracy, credibility, and
integrity of the information we develop. So the first part of
the answer to your question is we adhere to scientific
standards, those that have been time-tested and are the same
standards the highest-level academics and research laboratories
around the world use, peer review being the most notable
element of that kind of process.
We also established--and I'm proud to say I was the
original author some 14 years ago--of NOAA's scientific
integrity policy, a policy which makes clear what we expect of
our scientists in terms of adhering to those standards,
scientific standards. And of course, we have statute and
legislation to abide by, not the least of which is the
Information Quality Act by which we test, if you will, our
information against the standards that Congress has
established. So there's a variety of different tools, if you
will, that keep us on the straight and true.
Ms. Ross. Well, thank you very much for that answer.
My next question has to do with staffing. The National
Weather Service is made up of talented employees who are
responsible for issuing accurate and timely forecasts and
warnings 24/7. And, as I said, I just visited one of my
National Weather Service locations in my district. This year,
we've already seen several life threatening severe-related
weather events. This hurricane season, which officially started
on June 1, is predicted to be an extremely active season.
The Fiscal Year 2024 budget cut about 100 National Weather
Service positions. If the 2025 Weather Service staffing budget
does not increase to at least inflation levels, this could
increase the burden on an already strained workforce. Dr.
Spinrad, how would an austere staffing budget impact the
workforce of the National Weather Service and across other line
offices in NOAA?
Dr. Spinrad. Ranking Member Ross, thank you for addressing
the issue of the people in the organization. We can lay claim
to the best science, the best models, the best observational
capabilities, but at the end of the day, it's our forecasters
in the weather forecast office like the one you visited a
couple of weeks ago across the agency. Our ability to bring
people onboard is not where I want it to be. And so,
consequently, even though we hired 1,700--more than 1,700
people last year, we need to make sure that we are able to
bring people into the organization and also retain them. It's
one thing to recruit, but we want to make sure we are retaining
folks.
So to do that, what we are doing is increasing our staffing
and our Office of Human Capital services. The head of the
National Weather Service, Ken Graham, is working aggressively
to optimize the staffing plan because, quite honestly, the way
we are staffing our weather forecast offices is a method that
was established many decades ago. So we are trying to optimize
how we are staffing.
And then the last part of this is making sure we have taken
best advantage of those direct-hire authorities that we've got
in the programs like Lapenta fellowships that give us
visibility for the next generation of forecasters in the
Weather Service.
Ms. Ross. OK. My time is about to expire, but I am going to
submit for the record a question about your backlog of deferred
maintenance costs, which appear to be about $1 billion. And the
request is not anywhere near there. So hopefully in a written
response we can find out what the priorities are and whether
you need additional funds.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ranking Member Ross.
I would now like to recognize the gentleman, Mr. Collins
out of Georgia, for 5 minutes questions.
Mr. Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Spinrad, NOAA's
National Weather Service has had multiple transmission outages
that have resulted in delays, warnings, and lapses in
dataflows. And the outages, they've affected Georgia in
particular in early January at an airport in Rome, Georgia. A
data outage was so severe that it left pilots blind to weather
events within 40 to 60 miles from the airports. But luckily,
there were no weather events going on that day, but it could
have been a disaster. And I'm just trying to get an update. How
are you addressing this?
Dr. Spinrad. Yes, thank you for that question. Obviously, I
share the priority of making sure we have 24/7 365 weather
services. I can assure you that, in every case, our backup
systems are working effectively, but that's not adequate. And
so part of what we're doing is making sure we've got the
agreements in place and the resources with the providers,
whether it be the internet service providers, data providers,
or communications providers so that we do not have any failures
in the system. And some of the resources that we've got through
the IRA are helping us to address those shortfalls.
Mr. Collins. All right. The 2025 budget, how's it improved
upon the existing partnerships with private and public weather
data to improve our forecasting models?
Dr. Spinrad. The--our reliance on the private sector and in
fact the development of the commercial data buys is something
that I have as a very important both personal and professional
priority. I think you know that over the last several years
we've engaged in some initial data buys with the private sector
that give us thousands of profiles of vertical temperature and
humidity. This is, in my opinion, a successful pilot program.
It's my intent to increase our capability for incorporation of
private data into our portfolio of weather service products.
Mr. Collins. Thank you. Following up on some of what Mr.
Posey was talking about, you know, you and I have had private
conversations about the right whale issue and the $80 billion
industry that you're going to affect, the 63,000 vessels that
are out there that you're going to affect with this 10-knot
rule that you have proposed. And I guess my question is pretty
simple. So you implement this thing. How do you plan on
enforcing it?
Dr. Spinrad. So I think you know that the National Marine
Fishery Service has an Office of Law Enforcement. This will be
part of their responsibility. We also work very closely with
the U.S. Coast Guard, and none of the development of a rule
like this is done without close collaboration and discussion
with the Coast Guard.
The other part of enforcement is going to lie in technology
and the use of technology to be able to understand where
vessels are, what speed they're going. So it's a combination
technology, our own resources, and then partnerships with other
Federal and State agencies.
Mr. Collins. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I have no other further questions, and I
yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Collins.
I now recognize Mr. Frost out of Florida for 5 minutes of
questions.
Mr. Frost. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. Good morning, Dr.
Spinrad.
Last month, NOAA predicted that this summer's hurricane
season will be--will have the most named storms ever, so it'll
be a bad hurricane season, as NOAA is predicting. NOAA's
hurricane season forecast is an important reminder of the
dangers that my constituents face, and it sets the tone for how
they prepare for the storm season. How does the flat funding
for the National Weather Service in NOAA's Fiscal Year 2025
budget request still reflect the importance of the National
Hurricane Center's yearly hurricane season outlook?
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you for the question, Congressman. I
certainly appreciate the concern over what we see as a rather
dramatic hurricane season coming down the line. The budget that
we've got right now will ensure that we can sustain our
capabilities. We are also optimizing some additional
capabilities so your constituents, for example, will see new
products like the cone of uncertainty that traditionally only
gave those coastal inhabitants information about what was
coming down the line will now give some of the inland
inhabitants information as well. We're also going to be able to
use AI applications on a test basis for translation of the
watches and warnings into multiple languages. So I can assure
you that not only will we sustain the products and services
that you know and appreciate from the hurricane center and the
Weather Service in general, but we will be able to expand some
of those capabilities.
Mr. Frost. Would you say has technology allowed you to kind
of keep the funding flat but still be able to do more? Is that
the reasoning there?
Dr. Spinrad. To a certain extent, yes, certainly things
like AI. For example, right now if we do a translation of a
forecast, it can typically take a half hour or 45 minutes for
human intervention, but AI allows that to be done in just 3 to
5 minutes. So at no real additional cost, we can improve the
service in that example.
Mr. Frost. NOAA's Atlantic Oceanographic and Meteorological
Laboratory (AOML) is responsible for real-time hurricane-
related measurements, hurricane science, and maintaining the
global ocean climate data record. A recent White House report
states that this Florida-based lab is having trouble attracting
and retaining scientific talent because it can no longer
support cutting-edge science. Could you speak to NOAA's plan to
address the aging research labs, including AOML?
Dr. Spinrad. Yes, thank you very much. And I can tell you,
having visited AOML just a few months back, I can appreciate
the issues. There was some roof leakage and other problems
going on there. We have over 600 facilities around the country,
and so what we undertook a couple of years ago was, first of
all, building a facilities and infrastructure strategic plan.
How do we know if we got one more dollar if we can spend one
more hour doing work on any of those facilities where we should
spend that time and effort? So we built a mechanism for
prioritizing and determining what that should be. That
particular plan is about to be rolled out. We will use that
facilities investment plan as the basis for making strategic
decisions about all of our facilities, including at AOML.
Mr. Frost. Along with my colleague, Congressman Daniel
Webster--he also sits on this Committee--we introduced the
bipartisan Fixing Gaps in Hurricane Preparedness Act. It would
direct NOAA to study shortcomings as it relates to severe
weather preparedness for populations like seniors and folks
with disabilities. As you probably know, seniors make up the
vast majority of hurricane-related deaths. Will NOAA's
requested increase in the National Weather Service
dissemination funding reflect the need to better protect
seniors and folks with disabilities from severe weather today?
Dr. Spinrad. Well, first, I have to say, Congressman, I
resemble that remark. I appreciate your calling attention to
providing services, especially for underserved or unserved
communities. I think you know this Administration has put a
premium on developing just that. And so, consequently, we are
focusing on providing those kinds of services. Just last month,
we rolled out, with our colleagues at the Centers for Disease
Control, a heat risk tool, for example, which will now allow
those vulnerable communities to be able to know am I at risk
from a heat event? If so, what do I need to do? Who do I need
to call? How should I prepare? And that tool is intended to
provide people with something like 3 to 5 days' lead time. So
you'll know that you need to find a cooling center. You may not
even know where a cooling center is right now. So that's an
example of the kind of thing to--things that we are doing. Same
thing on drought and flooding as well.
Mr. Frost. And last question, with an $8 million decrease
in funding for the Office of Oceanic and Atmospheric Research,
how does the NOAA's Fiscal Year 2025 budget address the need
for CO2 removal from the oceans?
Dr. Spinrad. So part of this is in making sure that we've
got good collaboration with our partners, and marine carbon
dioxide removal as an important element with respect to
addressing atmospheric carbon dioxide is something we are
engaging with our partners at DOE on. We're going to work
toward what is right now an administration-wide--an interagency
approach toward reducing carbon dioxide through marine
approaches.
Mr. Frost. So you have the $8 million decrease in there
because there's going to be more shared responsibility on this
with other agencies?
Dr. Spinrad. In part. I mean, as I indicated earlier, some
very tough cuts that we had to make, especially on the research
side of the house, were a consequence of the prioritization of
keeping our mission essential functions up and running and
adhering to the statutes and limitations of the Fiscal
Responsibility Act.
Mr. Frost. Thank you so much. I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Frost.
I now would like to recognize Mr. Amo out of Rhode Island
for 5 minutes of questions.
Mr. Amo. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Spinrad, good to see you again. I know that we had the
opportunity last month to break ground together in Newport,
Rhode Island, for the future home of NOAA's Marine Operations
Center--Atlantic. And due to the efforts of my great colleagues
in the congressional delegation, especially our leadership on
the Senate side and Senator Jack Reed, we were able to make
that happen. So I'm grateful for your continued support, and I
look forward to a ribbon cutting in our future.
This facility is really important to us. It will support
good-paying union jobs in my district, and it's going to mean
economic growth, that are a return on the investment of the
Federal Government. It will--the facility will feature a pier
fit for four large vessels, a floating dock for smaller
vessels, a space for repairs, a building for shoreside support,
and a warehouse. Supporting NOAA's fleet of ships in the
Atlantic as they collect data critical to understanding climate
change, protecting marine ecosystems, and keeping mariners safe
will further solidify Rhode Island's leadership in the blue
economy.
So, Dr. Spinrad, if you could briefly, please expand on how
the Marine Operation Center--Atlantic's new location in Newport
will support NOAA's efforts to conduct climate and oceanic
research.
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you, Congressman Amo. Good to see you
again as well. That was certainly a great celebration.
Just as a quick personal note, being able for my boss to go
back to her home State as well was a good opportunity.
This facility in Newport will serve as a homeport facility
for several of our ships, meaning we will be able to conduct
operations out of Newport effectively and efficiently. The
colocation if you will with our colleagues at Navy and Coast
Guard is an added benefit. And I would add, having that
proximity to some of the most premier ocean research
institutions like University of Rhode Island, Woods Hole
Oceanographic, University of Connecticut, and others is a real
added benefit so that for any number of reasons, we see this as
a real plus for the agency.
Mr. Amo. Wonderful. And I'm glad that you mentioned the
Navy. Of course, we've got longstanding historical ties there,
and I'm hopeful that that proximity will yield great
collaboration across NOAA and the Navy, which will yield some
growth in our innovation economy, our blue economy locally in
Rhode Island.
I wanted to ask about another issue that's important to my
constituents. I've actually received letters from third-graders
on this topic. And this is the North Atlantic right whale, one
of the most endangered whales in the world. As you know, it's
on the verge of extinction with fewer than 340 remaining.
Vessel strikes have remained the most significant cost--cause,
rather, of human-driven mortality for the right whales. If the
current rate of population decline continues, the species will
go extinct by 2037.
Dr. Spinrad, can you explain what NOAA is doing to protect
the endangered right whale? And I know we heard briefly about
it, but could you talk about the relationship between saving
the North Atlantic right whale and the vessel speed rule to
expand mandatory speed restrictions?
Dr. Spinrad. Thank you, Congressman Amo. The protection of
the North Atlantic right whale is something that we are legally
bound to do. And I want to make a strong point of that because
this is not something we think would be nice to do. We have to
do this by dictate, if you will, from the Endangered Species
Act and the Marine Mammal Protection Act And, in fact, it's a
zero-loss kind of situation in that because we have so many--so
small a population of these whales, including only about 70
reproducing females, that it is incumbent on us by law to
ensure that any manmade causes of their demise are addressed.
The two main causes are vessel strike, and in this this
year already, we've had three whales that we know of that have
been killed by vessel strike and entanglement in fishing gear.
And we know that there's been one loss. I would also say the
numbers are higher because in a couple of those cases these
were cows if you will, mother whales that had calves associated
with them. We've not been able to find the calves.
So what we are trying to do is establish through careful
study of the science and the economics what is an appropriate
vessel speed, for what size vessels do we need to impose, what
times of year, and what areas are most appropriate? We'd like
to be able to apply this in a way that is both supportive of
economic development, but at the same time reflective of our
need to protect these whales from vessel strike. That rule
right now is at OIRA and OMB, and we hope that we can start
implementing accordingly and protecting this species from
extinction.
Mr. Amo. Well, I appreciate your consideration and
balancing the many interests, and I look forward to working
with you to make sure that we do everything we can to protect
the whales.
With that, I yield back my time.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Amo.
I just, in closing, would like to thank all the witnesses
and you, Dr. Spinrad, for your valuable testimony and the
Members for their questions on the Committee. The record will
remain open for 2 weeks for additional comments and written
questions from Members.
And once again, I just wanted to let you know how much we
appreciate you in this hearing this morning. One of the things
I love about this Committee is it's more bipartisan than not so
we can actually get real work done. So I appreciate every
Member up here.
And the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
Appendix I
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Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
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Appendix II
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Additional Material for the Record
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