[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                        THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS:
                          ARIZONA PERSPECTIVES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION
                               __________

                          FRIDAY, MAY 10, 2024
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-77
                               __________


         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary 
         
         
         
         
               
               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
               
               
               


               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov 
                                 ______

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE   

55-716                     WASHINGTON : 2024 














                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
MATT GAETZ, Florida                    Member
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
CHIP ROY, Texas                        Georgia
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           ADAM SCHIFF, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             ERIC SWALWELL, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          TED LIEU, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  J. LUIS CORREA, California
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota        MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            LUCY McBATH, Georgia
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
KEVIN KILEY, California              DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             CORI BUSH, Missouri
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               GLENN IVEY, Maryland
LAUREL LEE, Florida                  BECCA BALINT, Vermont
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
Vacancy

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
         AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
                                 ------ 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                                                  
                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                          Friday, May 10, 2024

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Ohio.........................................     1
The Honorable Juan Ciscomani, a Member of the House Committee on 
  Appropriations from the State of Arizona.......................     3

                               WITNESSES

Chris Clem, former Chief Patrol Agent, Yuma Sector, U.S. Border 
  Patrol (Retired)
  Oral Testimony.................................................     6
  Prepared Testimony.............................................     8
Jim Chilton, Chilton Ranch, LLC
  Oral Testimony.................................................    10
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    12
Jacob Kartchner, former Sheriff's Deputy, Cochise County, Arizona 
  (Retired)
  Oral Testimony.................................................    27
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    30
Jill Fagan Alexander, Registered Nurse, Mother of Fentanyl 
  Poisoning Victim
  Oral Testimony.................................................    32
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    35

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Committee on the 
  Judiciary are listed below.....................................    52


 
                        THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS:
                          ARIZONA PERSPECTIVES

                              ----------                              

                          Friday, May 10, 2024

                        House of Representatives

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m. 
Mountain Time, Sahuarita Town Hall, 375 W. Sahuarita Center 
Way, Sahuarita, Arizona, the Hon. Jim Jordan [Chair of the 
Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Jordan, Biggs, McClintock, 
Fitzgerald, and Bentz.
    Also present: Representatives Ciscomani and Crane.
    Chair Jordan. The Committee will come to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess at any time.
    We welcome everyone to today's hearing on the ``Biden 
Border Crisis: Arizona Perspectives'' from just South of 
Tucson, Arizona, in the town of Sahuarita.
    I think I got--where's the mayor? Did I get that right, 
Mayor? Mayor? Mayor, thank you for having us, too. We want to 
thank you for being such a great host.
    We want to thank our friend and colleague, who is doing a 
great job in the U.S. Congress, Congressman Ciscomani, for 
hosting us as well today.
    Without objection--yes, you should cheer for him.
    Without objection, Congressman Ciscomani and Congressman 
Crane will be permitted to participate in today's hearing for 
the purpose of questioning the witnesses, and they will receive 
five minutes for that purpose.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. 
Ciscomani, to lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Please join me in the Pledge of Allegiance.
    All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States 
of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one 
Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for 
all.
    Chair Jordan. The Chair is now recognized for an opening 
statement.
    Joe Biden is on track to let 12 million--12 million--
illegal aliens into the United States. Let that number sink in.
    I tell folks all the time: That's the equivalent to the 
entire population of the State of Ohio. We're the seventh 
largest State. That's not evening counting the 1.8 million 
known gotaways who have evaded Border Patrol or the unknown 
number of gotaways who have not been detected.
    In February of last year, we held our first field hearing 
in this great State in Yuma, Arizona. At that time, the Yuma 
Border Patrol Sector was seeing record-high illegal border 
crossers; the local hospital was drowning under the weight of 
illegal aliens' unpaid medical bills; and law enforcement 
officials were warning of the extremely dangerous repercussions 
of an open border.
    We thought it couldn't get much worse, but it did. So, we 
are back in Arizona where the residents feel the effects of the 
Biden open border policies each and every day, the effects of 
nearly five million illegal aliens released into U.S. 
communities, the effects of criminal alien gangs flooding the 
U.S. with illicit drugs, the effects of an unknown number of 
aliens on the terrorist watch list evading Border Patrol 
detection and disappearing into our communities, like the one 
with ISIS ties from Uzbekistan across the Arizona border back 
in February 2022.
    The Department of Homeland Security's own published numbers 
show that the Tucson Border Patrol Sector leads the Nation in 
the Southwest border encounters with at least 366,000 of the 
more than 1.3 million illegal alien encounters so far this 
fiscal year.
    Illegal immigration is such a problem here that, last year, 
the Department of Homeland Security closed the Lukeville Port 
of Entry for more than a month during the holiday season when 
legitimate travel across the border was at its peak so that CVC 
officers could help process the huge number of illegal aliens 
entering the country.
    The rampant illegal immigration welcomed by the Biden 
Administration devastated this area's holiday economy, but you 
don't have to believe me that the border is in chaos. You can 
believe the border--Chief Border Patrol agent from the Tucson 
Sector.
    According to Chief John Modlin, on April 30th, the Border 
Patrol and Tucson law enforcement interdicted a load of more 
than 57 pounds of methamphetamine and more than 88 pounds of 
fentanyl.
    On April 24th, the Chief posted on social media that agents 
had arrested an illegal border crosser who had an extensive 
criminal history, including convictions for the facilitation of 
homicide and aggravated assault with a weapon.
    On April 18th, agents arrested an illegal border crosser 
who also turned out to be convicted of a vicious assault.
    On April 14th, Tucson agents apprehended a group of illegal 
alien border crossers dressed in camouflage in a remote part of 
the sector.
    On April 8th, agents seize 158,000 in fentanyl pills.
    On March 26th, agents apprehended an illegal alien border 
crosser who was a gang member with a felony conviction for 
assault with a deadly weapon in California.
    On March 25th, they apprehended a group of 15 illegal alien 
border crossers dressed in camouflage.
    On March 20th, agents apprehended an illegal alien border 
crosser for viciously assaulting a child.
    Those are just a few of the examples from the last couple 
of months that the Border Patrol knows about and tells the 
public. Imagine what is happening that the Border Patrol 
doesn't know or that this administration won't let agents tell 
us.
    Of course, do you know who else knows what is going on at 
the border? The residents of the great State of Arizona know, 
and a few of them are here today to share how President Biden's 
open border policies negatively affected their communities and 
their lives.
    We will hear from a rancher who sees illegal aliens in 
camouflage on his land every day.
    We will hear from a mom, a mom whose family has been 
forever altered because President Biden refuses to prevent the 
Chinese Government from teaming up with Mexican cartels to 
flood our country with fentanyl.
    We will hear from a Border Patrol Chief who knows firsthand 
the disaster that President Biden's policies created on the 
Southwest border and the negative effects that the open border 
has on agents' morale.
    We will hear from a former Sheriff's Deputy about the 
dangerous condition President Biden's open border creates in 
communities all across Arizona.
    They all have different stories to tell, but they all agree 
that the border has never been as much of a dangerous disaster 
as it is today. It went from the most secure border in recent 
history to the most unsecure border in recent history in just a 
matter of days. Ultimately, only Joe Biden is responsible for 
that.
    Before going to our witnesses and recognizing them and 
swearing them in, I want to give a chance to our host, 
Congressman Ciscomani--who, as I said, has become a good friend 
of this Committee, a good friend of all of us, and is doing a 
great job in the U.S. Congress trying to address these issues 
and others--I want to give him a chance to make some 
introductory remarks.
    Congressman Ciscomani, you are recognized.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Chair. Thank you so much for the 
opportunity to be here and thank you for choosing our community 
to come and add more attention to this pressing issue.
    I wanted to thank all my colleagues as well on the 
Committee for making the trip down here.
    For people here that know, these Members have different 
districts from around the country, and they leave home to be 
here and see what's really happening at the border.
    To the witnesses, of course, thank you so much--and then 
the audience as well--for making the time. This is an important 
issue. We have always known that. We have recognized that.
    Of course, our host town, the town of Sahuarita with Mayor 
Murphy, a good friend and someone that has been steadfast on 
this issue and supportive as well. It does take all of us to 
highlight the importance of the issue, and that's what we've 
been doing and working together.
    The testimonies you will hear today will highlight 
something that we know quite well here in Southern Arizona, and 
that the border is broken. That's not just a saying. It's not a 
random line. We've seen that, and the evidence is there. It's 
not an opinion. It's a fact. We can see that with the numbers. 
It's having a devastating impact here on a daily basis.
    The border crisis and any crisis here are not anything new 
that we haven't seen in this region, but we're experiencing now 
something we have never seen before: The numbers, the amount, 
and the consequences of it. The tragic results of what fentanyl 
has done to our community is something that we never even 
imagined.
    From public safety to trade and commerce as well to other 
industries like agriculture, no aspect of life in Arizona is 
untouched by this border crisis. It's a reality that my 
constituents live every day, that you all live every day.
    Our local communities feel abandoned by the Federal 
Government and this White House and this Administration and are 
paying the price for their inaction, both literally and 
figuratively.
    Local hospitals pay out of pocket for medical care for the 
flow of migration that we're seeing, and counties foot the bill 
for bus tickets to transport individuals to different areas.
    Then, of course, we have families here like Ms. Fagan 
Alexander's, who is--and also the Dunns that I just met today--
that have lost loved ones to accidental fentanyl poisoning, and 
ranchers who live on the border like Mr. Chilton--that we've 
talked about this several times--who are afraid to leave their 
houses due to cartel activity coming through their property. 
Families like Mr. Chilton's have been here for generations, and 
what they're seeing now, they have never seen before.
    To our witnesses and those watching at home, I want you to 
know that the colleagues here that I'm joined with today are 
listening, and they're paying attention from all across the 
country and that they're represented here. They care about 
this. I know because I work with them every single week.
    I have become a friend of this Committee. In fact, this 
Committee, the Judiciary Committee--it helped pass the bill 
that I introduced not too long ago, and it passed out of the 
House--I may say with bipartisan support with over 56 Democrats 
voting for this as well and every single Republican, H.R. 5585, 
the Agent Raul Gonzalez Officer Safety Act. If it wasn't for 
this Committee and the leadership of this Committee, then that 
bill would have never made it through. They were able to speed 
it up, and we were able to vote on it.
    If you don't know this Committee, this bill deals with 
high-speed chases and tackling that issue that has become just 
a constant threat in our communities of cartels recruiting 
young people from Tucson and from Phoenix to come and drive at 
high-speed chases and drive migrants up North, endangering not 
only their lives and the lives of the migrants, but also the 
lives of innocent bystanders.
    This is a humanitarian crisis as much as it is a national 
security crisis as well. Humanitarian for those being 
trafficked, those women and children being trafficked, and also 
for our own citizens and communities here that are being abused 
and are being introduced to this deadly, deadly drug of 
fentanyl that, in many cases, the poisoning happens by 
accident.
    So, I want to thank, once again, my colleagues for being 
here and for helping us pass that bill. It's in the Senate now, 
and it's up to the Senate to also take action on it, and it's 
up to this White House to take action.
    So, again, thank you to my colleagues for being here.
    Thank you, Chair, for the opportunity to waive in and to be 
able to participate in today. With that, sir, I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you. Thank you for your leadership on 
this issue and so many others.
    We will now introduce our witnesses.
    Mr. Chris Clem, retired from a 27-year career in the United 
States Border Patrol as a Chief Patrol Agent in the Yuma Sector 
in December 2022, he served the bulk of that career on the 
Southwest U.S. border but also spent time in leadership 
positions at Border Patrol Headquarters in Washington, DC.
    Mr. Clem earned a master of science in management and 
leadership in criminal justice and a B.S. in criminal justice 
from Sam Houston State University and a certificate of 
graduation for senior managers in government from the Harvard 
Kennedy School.
    Mr. Clem, thank you for your service, and thank you for 
being here today.
    Mr. Jim Chilton, as Congressman Ciscomani mentioned, is a 
fifth-generation Arizona rancher who founded the Chilton Ranch 
and Cattle Company with his father and brother in 1979. Not 
only is Mr. Chilton an accomplished rancher and businessman, 
but he also served as a special assistant to the U.S. Senator 
from Arizona.
    Mr. Chilton earned a bachelor of science and a master of 
science in economics and a master of arts in political science 
from Arizona State University.
    Again, Mr. Chilton, thank you for your service and for 
being here.
    Mr. Jacob Kartchner recently retired as a detective from 
the Cochise County Sheriff's Department after a 20-year career. 
During that time, Detective Kartchner served on the 
Department's Ranch Patrol and was a founding member of the 
SABRE unit which worked closely with landowners to 
strategically place cameras on border lands to catch human and 
drug smugglers as well as other criminals crossing the border.
    Mr. Kartchner is also a rancher whose family has owned land 
in Cochise County since 1891. Thank you as well.
    Ms. Jill Fagan Alexander is a wife and mother of nine 
children. She's an accomplished writer, publisher, and speaker 
who went back to school while she was in her forties to become 
a labor and delivery nurse.
    Based on her family's experience, Ms. Fagan Alexander is 
now on a mission to promote awareness of the fentanyl crisis 
and how Arizona kids and families can protect themselves from 
being fentanyl victims.
    We thank you for being here and sharing your important 
story and for all your work.
    We welcome our witnesses and thank them for appearing 
today. We will begin by swearing you in.
    Would you please raise--now please rise--excuse me--and 
raise your right hand.
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?
    Let the record reflect that all witnesses have answered in 
the affirmative.
    You can be seated. Thank you so much.
    Please know that your written testimony will be entered 
into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you 
summarize your testimony in five minutes, but we'll be fine. 
We'll give you a little extra if you need a little extra. 
That's up to you. We're going to just go right down the list 
just like we introduced you and we'll finish with Ms. Fagan 
Alexander, but let's start with Mr. Clem.
    You are recognized for five minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF CHRIS CLEM

    Mr. Clem. Good morning, Chair, the Members of the 
Committee. My name is Chris Clem. I am a retired Chief Patrol 
Agent of the U.S. Border Patrol.
    I began my career in 1995 about 150 miles east of here in 
Lordsburg, New Mexico, as a GS-5 Border Patrol trainee and 
retired nearly 17 months ago about 250 miles West of here as a 
Senior Executive Service Chief Patrol Agent in Yuma, Arizona. 
Therefore, my responses to your questions are based on my 
recollection of my experiences over the last now 28-plus years.
    I spent most of my career along the Southwest border, and I 
spent a few years in Washington, DC, and New Orleans, 
Louisiana. I was a career government employee who served under 
five Presidential Administrations, starting under Clinton and 
ending under Biden. I was not a political appointee.
    I promoted through the ranks through competitive process 
and commanded four Border Patrol stations across New Mexico, 
Texas, and Arizona. I served as the Deputy Chief Patrol Agent 
in New Orleans Sector, El Paso Sector, and was Acting Chief in 
Big Bend, Texas, for nearly six months before being promoted to 
Chief Patrol Agent of the Yuma, Arizona, Sector for two years 
until my retirement.
    I spent time as an agent in remote locations as well as 
urban environments, and I can tell you: If you've been to one 
station, you have been to one station. If you've been to one 
sector, you have been to one sector. Each location is different 
with its own set of unique circumstances, from terrain to 
infrastructure to communities and to threats.
    However, the one thing that is consistent across the 
spectrum, without border security, our agents, our community, 
the migrants, and our country are vulnerable.
    While immigration and border security are closely related, 
they're not mutually exclusive. However, without proper border 
security in the form of physical security, Border Patrol 
agents, strong policies, and consequences, the integrity of the 
immigration system is compromised and the founding principles 
surrounding the rule of law suffer.
    My statement testimony today will be focused on border 
security, to which I would be considered a subject matter 
expert. Immigration, as mentioned, is related but can only be 
effective and efficient when the border is secured.
    It is also my testimony that each administration that I 
served under made efforts to secure our border based on the 
requirements of Border Patrol agents except the Biden 
Administration.
    Under President Clinton, a hiring push for more agents 
began. I was one of them.
    Under President Bush and the results of the tragedy of 
September 11, 2001, infrastructure plans and one of the first 
national Border Patrol strategies were implemented. Even under 
President Obama, there were hundreds of miles of border wall 
constructed, especially early in his terms.
    We also know that ``build a wall'' was a fixture of the 
Candidate Trump campaign, but became a reality under President 
Trump.
    Let me be clear. President Trump implemented requirements 
which were a culmination of decades of experience from Border 
Patrol agents. The wall was much more than a wall. It was a 
system to include wall technology, access road, and even strong 
policies to close loopholes.
    I will state that the system in place in 2020 was one of 
the best we could have asked for as a country, even with party 
politics and funding making things difficult. This ended and 
came to a screeching halt under President Biden.
    At the end of Fiscal Year 2020, Yuma Sector had just over 
8,800 arrests. That number leaped to over 114,000 in Fiscal 
Year 2021, and over 312,000 in Fiscal Year 2022.
    This Committee and Congress have access to all available 
data, and the staunch difference between the previous 
Administration and the current is gut-wrenching and jaw-
dropping. I understand not every threat to our great Nation 
will come directly across the border, but why would we be 
willing to risk it?
    We know that there are countless gaps and vulnerabilities 
created along the border, specifically the Southern border. We 
are on the heels of two recent testimonies from FBI Director 
Wray that indicate the threats are real.
    With hot spots around the world that have happened under 
President Biden's Administration, there are more than enough 
reasons to secure our border and put back in place the plan as 
intended to include infrastructure, technology, and policies.
    We need the wall installed and completed where it makes 
sense, we need technology installed as intended, and we need to 
increase the number of Border Patrol agents and border security 
personnel as requested by senior field leaders.
    Last, I want to thank you for holding a field hearing. I 
have been advocating for more field hearings so we, the people, 
can meet you and feel represented. While it's difficult to pull 
off, it's essential for Americans to be truly represented.
    I understand many will claim this is a political stunt, and 
I would counter by stating talking about the hearing and not 
acting on behalf of the community so greatly impacted by this 
border crisis is the political stunt. I am grateful for your 
willingness to come to the border again to hear from those that 
have lived it and are living it today.
    My full and complete statement has been submitted. I look 
forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Clem follows:]
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 
    
    
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Clem. I would just agree with 
you. It is anything but a political stunt. There's a reason we 
have Mr. Crane, Mr. Biggs, Mr. Ciscomani from your great State 
here, and others from around the country. We have the Chair of 
the Immigration Subcommittee from California, Mr. McClintock, 
here.
    I wish we had some Democrats that would actually show up 
because it is not a stunt. It's about dealing with a real 
problem and doing everything we can to highlight how serious it 
is. So, thank you for your testimony.
    Mr. Chilton, you are recognized for five minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF JIM CHILTON

    Mr. Chilton. Thank you, Mr. Chair and honorable 
Congressmen.
    My name is Jim Chilton. I am a fifth-generation Arizona 
rancher from the small town of Arivaca Southwest of Tucson. The 
ranch includes private properties, State school trust lands, 
and Federal grazing permits. My ancestors drove cattle from 
Texas to Arizona for 139 years ago.
    Do I see a map here? Oh, right.
    This map of our 50,000-acre ranch--the Southern end of our 
ranch is the international boundary for about 5.5 miles. The 
black lines are our ranch boundaries. The blue lines--is the 
international border with Mexico, and the red line is the Ruby 
Road.
    Wall construction was stopped on our ranch by President 
Biden on January 20, 2021, with half a mile left to go on our 
ranch, and there were additional gaps all along the wall.
    For about 10 years, I have collected film from hidden 
motion-activated cameras of drug packers, previously deported 
persons, criminals, and other persons not seeking asylum and 
crossing North through our ranch. Of approximately 100 trails 
on our ranch, only five have cameras.
    [Video shown.]
    Mr. Chilton. I have images now of over 3,050 people coming 
through the ranch marching North. Are any of these 3,050 
terrorists? This is a national security issue.
    Simultaneously, the cartel is routing massive numbers of 
asylum seekers through the end of the wall on our ranch and a 
gap in California Gulch.
    Last month--that's April--approximately 5,460 of these 
undocumented persons were apprehended, processed, and released. 
They are wearing street clothes and seeking the Border Patrol 
and appear to come from all different parts of the world. The 
amount of trash and human waste left by these people is 
appalling.
    The failure to secure the border allows border crosser 
deaths. We have had three deaths on our ranch in 2023, and I 
estimate 35 deaths on our ranch since 1987. The cartel scouts 
occupy our mountains, and they facilitate flooding drugs into 
our country, including is the fact that there are devastating 
crosser-caused fires and, in sum, causes substantial 
environmental damage.
    Part of the solution is to complete the construction of a 
wall, including fiber-optic cable, electronics, cameras, and 
sensors.
    I believe in legal immigration--not illegal immigration. We 
are a Nation of immigrants, and they do great things for our 
country.
    Bottom line: Everybody should be legal. My thought is we 
need to expand the number of people legally coming into the 
country and secure our border. Right now, it's open, and it's 
President Biden's fault.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Chilton follows:]
    
    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    
    Chair Jordan. Well said. Thank you, Mr. Chilton.
    Mr. Kartchner, you are recognized.
    Just, yes, pull that microphone nice and close. Go right 
ahead.

                  STATEMENT OF JACOB KARTCHNER

    Mr. Kartchner. Mr. Chair, Members of this Committee, I want 
to thank you for allowing me to speak today and for your 
willingness to come here and identify where the problem lies.
    I'm a fifth-generation resident of Cochise County with both 
sides of my family ranching and raising families here for over 
100 years. I'm a rancher within the border region and recently 
retired from law enforcement.
    Over my lifetime in Cochise County and my tenure with the 
Cochise County Sheriff's Office, I have seen the ebbs and flows 
of illegal immigration and the effects that it has on those of 
us that live in rural Arizona. This is the worst I've ever 
seen.
    Growing up, there were always those wanting to come to 
America for a better life, the American Dream as it were. Those 
folks would pass through, maybe stop and ask for water or food, 
and be on their way. Then larger groups started coming through 
cutting holes in fences, draining water tanks, leaving trails 
of trash in their wake, and, in some cases, succumbing to the 
elements.
    I ranched throughout Cochise County and dealt firsthand 
with the border-related issues. The environmental impact caused 
by millions of people coming through has devastated ranch lands 
in Cochise County, making it more difficult for ranching 
families to continue their legacy and heritage.
    Several multigenerational ranchers in Cochise County have 
sold over the last decade to large corporations or absentee 
owners in part, if not all, due to the increasing pressure felt 
by the ongoing border crisis.
    Cochise County has been on the front lines of this crisis 
for decades, and I've had the privilege of serving those who 
are affected on a daily basis: Cochise County citizens and 
ranchers.
    During the last 10 years of my career, I was part of the 
ranch patrol and SABRE team, which consisted of a handful of 
guys dedicated to identifying the threats from international 
smuggling organizations and doing everything we could to stop 
them.
    SABRE stands for the Southern Arizona Border Region 
Enforcement team, and it's a collaborative effort with other 
law enforcement partners. Live-feed game cameras are set up in 
the rural areas between the ports of entry to detect illegal 
activity.
    Prior to 2020, the border issues in Cochise County were 
what we referred to as controlled chaos, in that law 
enforcement agencies working together were able to respond and 
address issues as they were detected.
    The traffic here in the majority of Southern Arizona is not 
give-up or asylum seekers, as seen on the limited media 
coverage. What comes across the Arizona desert are generally 
males 18-40 wearing camouflage from head to toe, including 
wearing carpet over their shoes to make it harder to detect and 
track them.
    Since 2021, the detected flow of military-age males that 
has been detected on the SABRE program has increased over 
tenfold from the years prior. In drug-smuggling or events where 
the State crime was committed, deputies would take disposition 
on the cases, but in cases involving illegal immigration, 
coordination was made with the corresponding Border Patrol 
stations for the apprehensions. Of all the suspected illegal 
entries documented by the SABRE program since its inception, 
less than 35 percent of all detections were apprehended and 
identified.
    Since 2021, when I would encounter these individuals, our 
conversations would turn to where they're going, where they 
come from, or why. They would always tell me about these 
commercials that they would see in their home countries, and 
there would be people on the TV telling them, ``Come to Oregon, 
come to New York, come to Chicago. There's a job waiting for 
you, no questions asked.'' The destination and the job that 
they were seeking weren't always the same, but multiple times--
these commercials would always come up.
    So, they would also tell me that it was costing anywhere 
between $6,000-$8,000--sometimes more--that they had to pay the 
cartel to cross. Most of the people that I had contact with 
didn't have that kind of money to pay the cartel, telling me 
they would owe that amount to the cartel once they reached 
their final destination, wherever that may be.
    As the trafficking increased, so did the need for 
transportation of the cartels' chattel, and I call them chattel 
because they, at that point, are property of the cartel. The 
cartels use social media platforms to recruit drivers to pick 
these folks up and transport them to larger transportation hubs 
such as Tucson or Phoenix.
    These load drivers, as they're called, are told by their 
handlers where to go and when to run from law enforcement. 
These drivers come from all walks of life, ranging in age from 
13 to over 70, drug addicts to suburban grandmothers, but all 
have one thing in common: They all work for transnational 
human-trafficking organizations.
    Offers to pay cash money for drivers entice people from all 
over the country to come to Southern Arizona and transport 
illegal aliens to further the cartels' operation. This 
operation comes at a cost for residents in Cochise County with 
over a dozen deaths from high-speed collisions over the last 
couple of years, all tied to human-smuggling events.
    Am I OK? OK.
    These incidents have become so commonplace that, even when 
the light turns green, residents of Cochise County wait to see 
if a high-speed load driver is going to run the red light 
before proceeding into the intersection. When one of these load 
drivers does stop or evade law enforcement, a common response 
is for every occupant of the vehicle to run in a different 
direction, lessening the chance of capture. This puts not only 
criminals already fleeing from law enforcement onto our ranches 
into our neighborhoods, but also unknown aliens who are 
literally in a foreign country who will do anything to avoid 
capture and have to try and find a way to survive.
    Again, thank you for being here and allowing me to speak, 
but as of today, we, as a country, have no control nor 
knowledge of who or what is coming across our borders. Our 
Southern border is being controlled by the cartels, and we need 
to find a way to regain that control.
    I'm happy to answer any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Kartchner follows:]
    
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    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Kartchner. It, again, 
underscores why Mr. Ciscomani's legislation on the high-speed 
chases is so, so important.
    Ms. Fagan Alexander you are recognized for five minutes.

               STATEMENT OF JILL FAGAN ALEXANDER

    Ms. Fagan Alexander. Chair Jordan, other Members of 
Congress, thank you--
    Chair Jordan. Pull that real close there.
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. Thank you.
    Chair Jordan. I want to hear you.
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. Chair Jordan and other Members of 
Congress, thank you for coming to Arizona to hear one 
perspective of how the open border is impacting families in 
Arizona.
    I recently lost two of my boys just three weeks apart due 
to the fentanyl crisis in Arizona.
    My 20-year-old, Sam, had been in and out of detention since 
he was 14 years old, mostly for alcohol-related incidents. He 
typically stayed away from hard drugs, but at 17, he went to 
prison for a year for a crime he committed while he was high on 
meth. When he got out, he was excited to stay clean. He 
wouldn't even take his ADD meds, because he was worried he 
might abuse them.
    Over the next year, he worked hard at setting up a new 
life. He found a girlfriend and got a job, a car, and an 
apartment. He seemed to be doing well for a while, but then it 
all began to fall apart.
    His girlfriend moved out because he started using it again, 
and not just pot or meth. He was buying fentanyl because it was 
cheap, potent, and easy to find. He lost his job, and on April 
6, 2023, while he was high, he got arrested.
    On intake, he was honest about his drug use. Deputies 
discovered he also had COVID, so they put him in isolation 
which, together with coming down from fentanyl, put him at 
greater risk for self-harm.
    Experiencing the effects of COVID and fentanyl withdrawal, 
Sam reported intense muscle and bone pain, chills, sweats, 
uncontrollable shaking and vomiting, and he decided to end his 
life by hanging himself in jail. It wasn't until days later 
that his dad and I were notified and eventually allowed to see 
him while he was on life support waiting for a determination of 
brain death.
    Even though Sam had quite often made poor choices, he was a 
good person, and he had a good heart. When he got his driver's 
license after getting out of prison, he chose to be an organ 
donor. Our family honors his wish, and on April 16th, Sam was 
able to donate his best kidney to his 30-year-old cousin who 
was on dialysis due to pharmaceutical kidney failure and for 
whom our family had been praying for months would find a donor.
    Sam's other kidney and pancreas were gifted to a woman in 
her thirties, his liver to a man in his forties, and his heart, 
by strange coincidence or by miracle, was gifted to the adopted 
son of my cousin's friend who was near death due to congenital 
heart complications.
    As my family tried to move forward from this tragic 
experience, we all suffered from grief to varying degrees. 
Every time one of my kids left the house, I was sure I was 
going to get a call that they had been killed. My constant 
thoughts and prayers were for their safety.
    We went to clean out Sam's apartment, and I took out all 
the paraphernalia I found before letting the kids in. I 
threatened them not to bring anything home that they shouldn't, 
but I let them each pick a few things of Sam's that they 
wanted: A Dolly Parton shirt, a Village Inn baseball cap, a 
llama planting cup, and a cup that says, strangely, ``Mountains 
above the rest, dad.'' It became some of our newfound favorite 
possessions.
    My 18-year-old son floundered in his last semester of 
schooling as did his 16-year-old brother. Gabe, my 13-year-old, 
ended up getting suspended for forgetfully bringing one of 
Sam's pocketknives to school in his jacket. I couldn't believe 
it, but I also couldn't blame him. My 11-year-old daughter 
became my constant shadow, unwilling to be too far away from me 
for any amount of time. None of us could think straight. We 
were all wrapped in a fog of loss and sadness.
    During the week that Gabe was suspended at home, he decided 
a change was in order for his schooling. He picked out some 
online classes and was excited. As only a 13-year-old can, he 
confidently told us of his plans to finish high school in just 
one year and to take over the world.
    On Wednesday, May 3rd, just 2.5 weeks after Sam's honor 
walk and organ donation, Gabe was found unresponsive with no 
pulse, no respiration, and he was blue in the face. Gabe had 
never shown signs of drug use. I have no knowledge that he was 
a regular user of any substance.
    We found out later that he had a pill found at Sam's house, 
and we surmised that he took it that day. I think he thought it 
would be fun to see what it was like to get high on oxy.
    When he said he wasn't feeling well and threw up, I think 
he realized he was in danger, and he was reaching out for help. 
I think after he showered and said he was going to take a nap, 
and he thought he was out of the woods. I think he thought he 
was going to wake up that day, but he never woke up again.
    Valiant attempts were made by his dad, sheriff's officers, 
first responders, and medical staff to save him, but that 
night, we were given the news that Gabe had also suffered 
anoxic brain injury due to respiratory failure caused by 
fentanyl poisoning.
    Through another nightmarish week in the ICU, we decided to 
give the gift of life again through organ donation. I cannot 
describe the grief and pain we personally experienced nor the 
shock of the organ donor network coordinators as we met again 
and made arrangements for Gabe's gifts.
    Another honor walk was done, and on May 9, 2023--one year 
ago yesterday--Gabe was able to impact seven lives and families 
by gifting his kidneys to two men in their seventies, his liver 
to a 15-year-old boy, and two of his heart valves and his 
cornea to others.
    I never set out to be an influencer, a politician, or a 
firebrand for change, but the things I learned after my boys 
were, in essence, murdered by fentanyl dealers both shocked and 
angered me into action.
    Gabe's pill was not unique. The DEA states that 7 out of 10 
pills they've seized and tested have more than a lethal dose of 
fentanyl. The pill that Gabe took that ended his life had more 
than five times the lethal dose of fentanyl.
    Everyone knows the statistics on fentanyl deaths, but no 
one believes it will happen to them, just like I didn't. Did my 
boys play a part in their own deaths? Absolutely. They made 
their choices, and our family has to live with them. This 
virtual flood of pills both into and through Arizona, which has 
dramatically worsened in the current Administration, allowed my 
boys to make choices they may not have without the current open 
border crisis.
    Nothing now will stop me from teaching kids that one pill 
one time can kill, from educating parents that Narcan at home 
saves lives, and from trying to close the border while 
stiffening penalties for those producing, importing, and 
selling fentanyl in our country knowing that every pill that 
comes into Arizona in this border crisis is likely a death 
sentence for another child like mine or yours. I am asking our 
government to do the same.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Fagan Alexander follows:]
    
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    Chair Jordan. Thank you. Thank you. Said as only a mom can 
say it, so we appreciate you being here and for your testimony.
    The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the Subcommittee on 
Immigration, Mr. McClintock from California.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you all for coming today.
    Mr. Clem, during a visit with Border Patrol agents last 
year in Yuma, I reminded them Congress has no power to enforce 
the law. Our role is to write the laws. I asked them what laws 
they needed us to write to be able to better do their jobs. 
They answered unanimously: We don't need new laws. We need to 
enforce the laws we already have.
    Obviously, we can and we have written laws to make it 
easier for future Presidents to secure the border, as Donald 
Trump did, and make it harder for them to open the border, as 
Biden has done, but is this still mainly a question of 
enforcement?
    Mr. Clem. Yes, sir. I would agree with that. The laws and 
the books that have been written over the last decades allow us 
to do our job. It is the policy and the direction coming out of 
the Executive Branch that directs how we're going to do things. 
(A) U.S.C. 1325 clearly says if you cross the border outside of 
a port of entry, it is against the law, regardless of your 
intent.
    So, yes, I don't believe we need new laws. I think we just 
need new leadership and direction to encourage us to continue 
to enforce the laws.
    Mr. McClintock. Now, as I recall, on Inauguration Day, our 
borders were pretty much secure. The Remain in Mexico policy of 
the Trump Administration slowed phony asylum claims to a 
trickle. The border wall was nearing completion. We were 
actually enforcing court-ordered deportations, returning 
illegals to their own communities, where word got out very 
quickly it's not worth paying the cartels thousands of dollars 
because you are just going to end up back here.
    The laws didn't change on inauguration day. The Presidency 
did. On that first day, Joe Biden rescinded the Executive 
Orders that Trump had issued to enforce our laws.
    What differences did you see on the ground between the days 
before the inauguration and the days we're seeing today?
    Mr. Clem. I can tell you that, in October 2020, Yuma Sector 
averaged--where I was going to be--25 arrests a day. It went up 
in November to 34 a day, up to about 54 a day in December, and 
119 in January. By May 2021, it went up to over 500 a day.
    As I mentioned in my opening statement, we went from 8,800 
arrests in 2020 in Yuma, to 114,000 in 2021, and to 312,000 in 
2022. So, that is a direct result of the Executive Orders that 
pretty much undermined and undid everything that we had worked 
toward over a culmination of several years.
    Mr. McClintock. On the ground, as a law enforcement 
officer, what change did you have in the orders you received 
from on high when the Administration changed?
    Mr. Clem. It wasn't so much of any direct orders to stop 
doing or do anything. It was just the fact that the floodgates 
had been opened.
    When you are dealing with a thousand arrests a day and you 
only have a couple hundred Border Patrol agents working in a 
24-hour cycle, it quickly adds up, and it ties our hands. Our 
agents were pretty much relegated to process--transportation 
and processing and getting people processed and out as quickly 
as possible. That was really what was the direction we were 
heading.
    Mr. McClintock. Current law requires that asylum claims be 
detained until their claim is resolved. The Trump 
Administration implemented the Remain in Mexico policy and the 
Safe Third Country policy that allowed claimants to remain free 
in those countries while their claims were being heard.
    What was the effect of this policy on the number of 
illegals claiming asylum that you encountered, and was the 
rescinding of this policy by Biden largely responsible for the 
influx that you just described?
    Mr. Clem. Yes. I have no doubt in my mind that the 
rescission of the Migrant Protection Protocol led to the mass 
incursions we started seeing.
    I want to make something very clear. The majority--and I 
would say an overwhelming majority--I don't recall people in my 
custody actually seeking asylum. It was through the removal 
process while we were processing them did they claim fear which 
offers them an asylum hearing.
    Mr. McClintock. They're all trained to do that?
    Mr. Clem. Right. They're trained. These are all folks that 
are not seeking asylum. They are using it as a defense.
    When you end the Migrant Protection Protocol, which 
basically was closing loopholes, that word got out so quickly 
that if you make it, you get to stay, and it ultimately put us 
back in a catch-and-release mindset.
    Mr. McClintock. Mr. Kartchner, what are you seeing in 
Cochise County with respect to criminal cartels and affiliated 
gangs? Are they now operating here in American communities, and 
what does that mean for the safety of our neighborhoods?
    Mr. Kartchner. As far as the criminal cartels--as in my 
statement, the criminal cartel--or the Mexican cartels control 
the border, and they control that from both sides of the line.
    Mr. McClintock. Have they now permeated into our country?
    Mr. Kartchner. The majority of what I've seen through 
investigations and everything else--there are players within 
the Phoenix area, within the Tucson area. That's where the 
coordination for these load drivers is from people that are 
already in the U.S., not--
    Mr. McClintock. Well, local law enforcement in my community 
in California told me of one of the nearby rural towns that 
became a place where MS-13 brought its victims from Los Angeles 
to murder, and there are absolutely gruesome stories of faces 
being carved off, fingers severed digit by digit.
    Can we expect this sort of violence to proliferate here as 
MS-13 and other violent gangs establish stronger footholds in 
our communities?
    Mr. Kartchner. I can speak to what I've seen here in 
Cochise County, and Cochise County is not where people are 
staying. The cartels do operate there, but we're simply a pass 
through.
    Further out in the country--in Ohio, California, and New 
York--that's where I believe that you're going to see probably 
some of that cartel.
    Mr. McClintock. That's why Border Patrol have been warning 
us for years to warn our communities outside of the 
international boundary that every community is becoming a 
border town?
    Mr. Kartchner. Yes. Correct.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from Arizona, who has been working on this 
issue nonstop, Congressman Biggs, is recognized.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thank you for 
bringing this hearing here.
    Thank you to our witnesses who have given us amazing 
testimony. We appreciate you being here.
    Thank you to the audience for being here. The police 
presence and Mayor Murphy, thank you, and the town of 
Sahuarita.
    Then, I see at the back of the room my old friend from the 
State Senate, Frank Antenori, and I would just advise the 
police you might to want haul that guy out right now. Just 
saying.
    So, earlier this week, we had a briefing--some of us did--
with Chief Modlin, who is the Sector Chief for this sector, the 
Tucson Sector. I want to give you some startling figures.
    So, from 2018-2020, the encounters averaged 60,000 a year 
in this sector--in Tucson Sector. It had been higher in 2019 
for sure. In 2021, that number was 190,000--190,000 encounters 
in 2021. In 2022, there were 250,000 encounters. In 2023, it 
was 373,000 encounters, and year to date, it exceeds 350,000, 
and they anticipate that they will exceed 700,000 encounters in 
the Tucson Sector by the end of the Fiscal Year which is 
September 30th.
    I'm not counting or including gotaways, both known and 
unknown. I'm not figuring into the fact that CBP has now 
changed how you count known and unknown gotaways, which 
actually will impact how you count them.
    So, I want to reiterate--Chief, you told us at the time, 
and you've now testified twice, but I have got to get this. 
Yuma Sector--you were the Chief in 2020--what was the total 
annual count?
    Mr. Clem. It was just over 8,800 arrests in 2020.
    Mr. Biggs. Right.
    Mr. Clem. Then, it went up to 114,000 at the end of Fiscal 
Year 2021.
    Mr. Biggs. When we look at it, they're averaging somewhere 
North of 350 a day in Yuma still. That's what I've been told. 
That's the report.
    What does that do to communities? Let's just take Yuma for 
one second. To go from 8,800 encounters, we know--and I've been 
there. I saw it when it was just overcrowded and booming.
    What happens to a community like Yuma who has one hospital, 
and you have all those people coming in? You're having to 
release them because you have no place to put them, and neither 
does anyplace else on the Southwest border.
    Mr. Clem. Yes. Thank you for that question. I think it's 
very important for people to realize that, even if one 
geographic location is getting hit very hard like Yuma did, 
others are suffering as well. We take care of each other along 
the way.
    In a place like Yuma, the majority of the year, there's 
only about 100,000 residents. There's a lot of winter visitors 
that come down there and add to the community. When you arrest 
over 100,000 people--that matches and exceeds the community--it 
becomes a problem. There's only one food bank. There is only 
one large nongovernment organization that was capable of 
handling that, and there's only one hospital.
    So, it took an entire community to rally around the Border 
Patrol and thank goodness they did, because we were already 
overwhelmed sitting on average of 5,000-6,000 people a day that 
we would have to release. The NGO would take them and help us, 
so we weren't releasing them to the street because there's no 
bus station. There's one airport that people can fly to Phoenix 
out of, but it was very difficult.
    So, thank goodness the NGO stepped up, but so did the 
entire community. The hospital--my understanding is there is 
still $20-$30 million in unpaid bills from migrants that were 
showing up directly because we could not get out there and 
respond quick enough.
    Mr. Biggs. There were times that the ER was filled with 
illegal aliens. The maternity ward was filled with illegal 
aliens. So, it really, really impacted the community. You had 
farmers that had to plow under fields because they had been 
contaminated.
    Now, Mr. Chilton, at the edge of your ranch where the 
fencing ends, not too far away--just a couple miles--I don't 
know how to describe it--an encampment that's being run. It's 
highly--I've been there. It's unsanitary. They're rolling 
people through there.
    How many people have come around that edge of your ranch 
and filtered through there?
    Mr. Chilton. According to one Border Patrol officer, 5,640 
people have come around the end of the wall on our ranch and 
through California Gulch--which is a huge gap--and they walk to 
the West to this migrant camp that you spoke of--5,640 people 
in April alone.
    Mr. Biggs. They're moving people out--just so you 
understand, there might be 100-150 there, and then Border 
Patrol will get to them, and they'll take them out, and then 
it's immediate filled back up, that encampment.
    Mr. Chilton. You are correct. I've talked to Border Patrol 
officers, and they've said, ``We used to be a security force 
and now we're just glorified taxi drivers.''
    Mr. Biggs. So, thanks for that, Mr. Chilton.
    Then, Mr. Kartchner, the high-speed chases and the SABRE 
force. We could talk about what Sheriff Daniels has done in 
Cochise County and how he has really tried to secure that 
county quite a bit.
    Tell us a little bit about the impact of the high-speed 
chases through the town of Sierra Vista.
    Then, while you're thinking that, I'll just tell you that I 
was down there once, and a high-speed chase had just ended in a 
fatal accident. So, please tell us.
    Mr. Kartchner. As I stated in my statement, over a dozen 
deaths have occurred directly tied to these immigration or 
high-speed chases coming through.
    The sheriff has done a fabulous job of utilizing what 
resources we have to try and address it. We've brought in law 
enforcement partners from different parts of the State to help 
out with that, but they continue to happen as long as the 
cartel is going to continue to recruit these people.
    Like I said, anywhere from the age 13 is the youngest that 
we've had. He took mom's car from Phoenix and drove down to 
Cochise County to pick up however many unknowns to--
    Mr. Biggs. Kids who can't even--don't know how to drive?
    Mr. Kartchner. Correct.
    Mr. Biggs. They're told to not stop and just go fast and 
keep going?
    Mr. Kartchner. One particular 17-year-old driver told us 
that, ``yes, he was just playing a real-life game of Grand 
Theft Auto.'' He was playing a video game with people's lives.
    Mr. Biggs. Our heart goes--thank you, Mrs. Alexander, for 
your testimony.
    I will just tell you that, when you start talking about 
recruitment, they're recruiting at high schools. They're 
recruiting on Snapchat, Instagram, and they're giving you 
specific load-out places: ``Go to mile marker X on--maybe it's 
the I-8 corridor'' or wherever else it may be--``and there's 
where you're going to meet somebody, and you're going to 
transport them, and you're going to make a thousand per hit or 
something like that.'' To a young person, it's going to be 
incredibly enticing to get involved in that.
    So, my time has way expired. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you all for being here today.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from Oregon, Mr. Bentz, is recognized.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I thank all of you for 
being here today sharing your stories with us.
    My family is a ranching family up in Oregon. Granddad came 
out of Texas 110 years ago. The ranches of my--three of my 
little brothers have ranches of similar size to yours, Mr. 
Chilton, and I cannot imagine having thousands on thousands of 
people traipsing through and across our permits and our land. I 
cannot imagine the damage that this would do to your 
operations, your watering facilities, your fences, and your 
ability to keep cattle in the proper place. I was looking at 
the fences that Mr. Biggs called out on your map, and I truly 
cannot imagine.
    I will tell you that the Bureau of Land Management and the 
Forest Service up in Oregon where I'm from are very, very 
intent on making sure that we don't go off trails and that we 
don't damage the land in any--I assume they must be down 
clattering around your ranch to make sure that your property is 
protected from all these people traipsing across. Is that 
correct?
    The BLM is making a huge play, I'm sure, to try to keep all 
these folks from coming across your land. Is that correct?
    Mr. Chilton. The Forest Service, where I have three 
permits, does a remarkably good job of trying. However, it's 
impossible. The 3,050 people I have images of coming across do 
great damage, and 5,640 people at the end of the ranch going 
toward that migrant camp just leave tons of trash. Sometimes 
our cows eat the trash or plastic and die.
    Mr. Bentz. I'm being facetious. The point is that we have 
these Federal agencies that should be focusing exactly on your 
problems because it's so broad in scope, and it's really sad to 
see.
    Ms. Fagan, first, thank you so much for having the courage 
to be here today and sharing that almost impossible situation 
with us. We are now awash in fentanyl. We are literally awash 
in this stuff. So, the value of what you're doing to try to 
warn people of this incredible danger is unbelievable.
    Are you talking to young people and others? How are you 
trying to--because the odds of us going around and scooping 
this up--the odds of us finally convincing the Biden 
Administration to do something about the border are remote, but 
your ability to try to go in and try to at least warn kids, how 
is that going?
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. I had the opportunity on September 11, 
2023, to go and speak to my son's school, so his classmates and 
peers as well as their parents. That was a unique opportunity. 
It was very challenging.
    I also made sure to tell kids,

        You can't take anything. You can't take medicine from your 
        friends. You can't take anything from anyone that didn't come 
        from your parents or from the school nurse. Nothing is safe. 
        Not because your friends are trying to poison you, but because 
        who knows where it all has been.

I talk to parents all the time to tell them,

        You can give Narcan to your child. If you find a child 
        unresponsive, you can give Narcan. It's not going to hurt them 
        if they haven't had opioids. You can give it every two minutes 
        until EMS arrives.

If that had been done for my son, he would be alive.
    There were signs that he was having respiratory stress, 
which is the biggest factor in fentanyl poisoning: Respiratory 
distress. It was seen in him, but his dad didn't know what to 
do.
    I want that message to get out to parents so that when our 
kids make these stupid choices--like at 13, they're going to go 
and traffic people--our kids are going to make mistakes. We 
need to be parents that they can come to when they have made 
that bad decision, and they can be safe with us so that we can 
save them from themselves.
    Mr. Bentz. Have you found others that are helping you in 
this effort?
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. Absolutely. I've coordinated with 
other mostly family driven organizations that are trying to get 
the message out about fentanyl and about all the impacts that 
these are having on our children. I would look for more 
opportunities to do that. I would do anything I could to save 
one family from experiencing what we have.
    Mr. Bentz. Well, I really, really appreciate your being 
here, and thank you for your efforts.
    With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. Thank you.
    The gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. Fitzgerald, is recognized 
for five minutes.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Chair. Thanks for bringing the 
Committee to Arizona.
    Thanks to Congressman Ciscomani for hosting us. I 
appreciate it.
    I want to thank Ms. Alexander for coming and telling her 
story. It's obviously heart-wrenching. Unfortunately, like 
Congressman Bentz said, we all have stories now from our 
Congressional districts of families that have suffered the same 
tragedy that you've gone through, which means, even though 
we're here today taking testimony in Arizona, this is something 
that has affected everyone throughout the entire country at 
this point.
    So, along with that, Congressman Biggs and I were able to 
make a quick trip down to the border and meet with Border 
Patrol this morning, and one of the most alarming things was 
the confirmation that we got from them that they've had 
contacts now with Chinese nationals. Maybe not in the same 
numbers that you see in some of the other sectors, but, in 
fact, it's really happening.
    Any of us that have any contact with the Foreign Affairs 
Committee or if you have been on some of these visits 
internationally, this is a threat that's way beyond what any of 
us could have imagined even a year ago.
    I want to go back to Mr. Clem, if I could. One of the 
things I've worked on--and I think because this has an effect, 
again, nationally is--and a priority--has been that we still 
haven't permanently designated fentanyl as a Schedule 1 
substance, which is just amazing to me.
    It's not because we haven't tried. We've authored a bill--
I've authored bills to try and underscore the seriousness of 
this. Unfortunately, we still have an Administration right now 
that is more worried about legalizing marijuana than 
scheduling--than making fentanyl a Schedule 1.
    Can you talk a little bit about--do you think that would 
have an effect on law enforcement and how they approach the 
issues and the problems that we have related to fentanyl and 
how it's coming across the border right now?
    Mr. Clem. Anytime you take a serious approach on something 
that is causing such devastation like fentanyl poisoning across 
this country and you prioritize it and you make it something 
like a Schedule 1, that's going to give a boost to the morale 
to law enforcement, because they know that this is going to 
lead to a successful prosecution and is an opportunity to at 
least mitigate the threat that it poses.
    They've got the priorities mixed up as far as working on 
legalizing one while they're not criminalizing one at the 
highest level. I think that we need to make that a Schedule 1, 
and we need to hold source countries and pass through countries 
accountable for that because, unfortunately, I hate using this 
as an example--but, if a plane crashed every day and 300 people 
died, they would make a big deal about that. That's the number 
of people that are dying every day according to statistics to 
fentanyl poisoning.
    We need to prioritize that. We need to shut it down where 
it's coming from, and we need to help the Border Patrol agents 
and the officers at the ports to help shut it down.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. So, one other thing I would just like you 
to comment on, if you could, because this is really happening 
right now. Some of my Democrat colleagues are suggesting that 
the majority of fentanyl is coming through the U.S. in the 
ports of entry.
    Can you comment to me, it makes no sense and I think to 
most people, but it's something--it's a narrative that's being 
driven right now in D.C.
    Mr. Clem. Well, there's some truth to that statement 
because I can tell you that--I believe it was in 2022--at least 
in the State of Arizona, about 52 percent of the fentanyl 
seized was at the ports of entry, which meant the 48 percent 
was outside the port. That's what's being seized. We don't know 
where the majority of it is coming through because, as we've 
mentioned and has been talked about already, the number of 
people that are coming in and then getting away--we don't know 
who they are and what they may be bringing in.
    So, there is some truth to the fact that a lot is being 
seized at the ports of entry, but it's almost hard to determine 
how much is coming through where, because we don't know a lot 
of the unknown factors.
    We do know that fentanyl is one of the things that is 
hitting every community in the United States. The migrants are 
passing through the border States, but the fentanyl is going 
everywhere to include border communities.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you.
    If I could just--Mr. Kartchner, I just want to--because of 
your years serving as a Sheriff's Deputy, you understand and 
know the communities in and around the county. What I've been 
experiencing in my district are some of the municipalities have 
been just overwhelmed with this sudden influx of illegals into 
their community.
    I have the city of Whitewater, Wisconsin--who had 200 non-
English speaking students show up on the first day for school. 
I've talked to the school board president there, and they're 
like, ``We're unequipped. We're ill-equipped to handle this.''
    Then if you talk to the Chief of Police and to law 
enforcement there, what becomes a fender-bender in the parking 
lot is a much bigger issue when you've got one person that does 
not speak any English.
    The amount of resources are being depleted at a much more 
rapid pace as a result of the level of immigration that's 
happening in our communities. Can you just comment on that, and 
is that something you saw in the communities that you worked in 
and around?
    Mr. Kartchner. I think I stated it before. Cochise County 
and Southern Arizona, we take the brunt of it. I kind of liken 
it to the front door. When you walk into the house, you don't 
stand at the front door. You walk through the front door. The 
floor gets dirty. We end up with some of those problems, but 
the destination is not here. The destination is where you're at 
throughout the country.
    We would do tours for sheriffs that wanted to learn where--

        OK, this is where the fentanyl is coming from. This is where 
        the drugs are coming from. This is where the illegal 
        immigration starts.

So, they would come down, and our sheriff there in Cochise 
County has a program called Borders To Backyards. So, these 
Sheriffs would come down, and they would see what's going on.
    I had a sheriff actually from Ohio that rode with me, and 
we were dealing with these vehicle loads. When we pulled one 
over, there was 11 people stacked up in the bed of a pickup and 
he actually was able to see it. He went back to Ohio. Two days 
later, he sent me a picture and had something very similar on 
the Ohio Turnpike.
    So, it takes that realization of where it's coming from. 
We're so callous to it and we're so used to seeing this that it 
makes a bigger impact when you realize where it's going.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. My time is up, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you all for being here today.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. 
Crane, another one of our new great Members from this State.
    Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing me to waive 
on to this Committee.
    Thank you to my colleague, Mr. Ciscomani, for hosting this 
in his district. Thank you, Mayor, for allowing us to have this 
here. Thank you, everybody, for your attendance. Thank you to 
the panel for showing up today.
    I'm going to read you guys a quote. I want to see if you 
guys know where this comes from.

        We're a Nation who says if you want to flee and you're fleeing 
        oppression, you should come.

Anybody know who said that?
    Voice. Joe Biden.
    Mr. Crane. Yep. Bingo.

        And those who come seeking asylum, we should immediately have 
        the capacity to absorb them and keep them safe until they can 
        be heard.

Anybody know who said that?
    Voice. Joe Biden.
    Mr. Crane. Yes. Candidate Biden. The first quote was 
September 12, 2019. The second quote was June 27, 2019.
    Anybody that has a brain in their head, ears, and eyes knew 
exactly what was going to happen as soon as this individual 
became the President of the United States. They were going to 
throw that border wide open. Why? A lot of us are asking why, 
and I think we're going to get into that today.
    Because they don't give a damn about you guys. That's what 
I think. I've been in enough of these hearings. I'm on the 
Homeland Security Committee. I'm not going to mince words 
anymore. I've talked to enough families that have lost their 
loved ones to fentanyl, MS-13 gang members, individuals on the 
terror watch list. We've talked to hospital administrators 
talking to us about how overrun their facilities are. I've seen 
enough of the data and enough of the evidence.
    Do you guys think that President Biden and Secretary 
Mayorkas don't know what's going on? Do you think they haven't 
heard enough information yet? I said I'm not going to mince 
words. I think it's treasonous. I absolutely do, all right?
    I just looked up--yes.
    I know that some people say, ``Oh, that doesn't reach the 
legal definition of treasonous.'' Treasonous: Involving or 
guilty of the crime of betraying one's country. Do you guys 
feel betrayed? I know I do. I know I do, and I know a lot of 
you guys do, too.
    I'm going to read you guys something from the Constitution 
of the United States. This is Article IV, Section 4.

        The United States shall guarantee that every State in this 
        union a republic form of government and shall protect each of 
        them against invasion.

    Do you guys think that President Biden and Secretary 
Mayorkas swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution 
of the United States?
    Yep. They did. Are they doing that for you guys?
    What do you think, Mr. Clem? Are they doing that?
    Mr. Clem. I don't think they're doing it to the best of 
their ability, that's for sure.
    Mr. Crane. Best of their ability? Mr. Clem, why do you 
think they developed an app to make it easier to get people 
into this country?
    Mr. Clem. All the things that this Administration has done 
in regard to the border are like giving somebody a bucket to 
bail water out of your sinking boat as opposed to fixing the 
leak. That's what that app does, is to facilitate people in 
and, in their minds, get them out of Border Patrol's custody 
quicker. It has nothing to do with securing the border. The 
border is a national security threat if we don't get it 
secured.
    So, yes, it's about facilitating people into this country, 
not forcing people to do things the right way.
    Mr. Crane. All right. You guys all have smartphones, right?
    Why do you guys have apps on your phone? Navigation apps 
and music apps to make it easier for you guys to do certain 
functions, right? That's why they created an app, guys, to make 
it easier for them to flood this country with illegals.
    We can sit here and we can talk about the different reasons 
why they're doing it, but the bottom line is, this is a 
complete dereliction of duty, and they are betraying you, the 
American people.
    Voice. They don't care.
    Mr. Crane. They don't care. They don't care.
    Mr. Kartchner, what do you think, sir? Do you think this 
Administration is stupid? Do you think they don't know what's 
going on? Do you think they're so foolish that they don't know 
the havoc they're wreaking on the American people?
    Mr. Kartchner. I would dare say that it's no longer 
ineptness that's going on. I believe there is some truth to the 
corruption.
    Mr. Crane. It's tough to ascribe anything else, isn't 
there, after this point?
    Guys, I had a hearing this week in Homeland Security, and 
this hasn't even become very mainstream yet, but it was about 
different foreign adversaries using direct weapons--direct 
energy weapons against U.S. citizens that completely 
incapacitate citizens of the United States. You guys might have 
heard of it called Havana syndrome.
    Then, we went down to the SCIF, and we got a classified 
briefing from some of the people on the panel, and it was one 
of the most--I'm a former Navy SEAL, so I've traveled around 
the world and hunted bad guys for a long time, but I can tell 
you this. When I went down to that SCIF, it was one of the most 
terrifying briefs that I've ever been a part of, OK?
    This is how brazen our enemies are becoming because of how 
foolish, corrupt, incompetent, and I would actually say wicked 
we have become, and our leadership has failed us at every turn. 
So, this next election is going to be important.
    Thank you guys for coming.
    Mr. Chair, thank you for allowing me to speak.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you. We appreciate that.
    As I've been told, we have another mom here who is another 
family. Ms. Dunn? Is Ms. Dunn here? I wonder--I know you know 
your Members from Arizona, but we want to recognize you and 
your family. What you've had to go through is, obviously, what 
Ms. Fagan Alexander has had to go through, too. So, thank you 
for being with us and for your work.
    With that, I want to go to our host for his time for 
questioning. The gentleman from Arizona is recognized for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Again, thanks, everyone, for being here.
    I connected with the Dunns right before this and, again, 
offer your deepest condolences for what you've been through 
and, also, thank you for your bravery.
    Ms. Alexander, I obviously had read your testimony and had 
read the story, but nothing like hearing it from you directly 
and from your heart. I don't think there was a dry eye in this 
place when you shared the pain and the grief that your family 
has gone through, certainly not in this panel. As I looked 
around, I think we're all touched and reminded why we're here. 
As a father myself, as a dad of six, I can tell you that it 
doesn't matter how old your kids are or what they do, they'll 
always be our babies.
    The pain that you and your family have gone through for the 
failures of this Administration is beyond what words can 
describe. Especially on the eve of Mother's Day, I can't thank 
you enough for your bravery and your advocacy of being here. 
Thank you.
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. Thank you.
    Mr. Ciscomani. I can't imagine the pain you felt when those 
calls were received. We can look back and look at so many 
things that everything could be different, and we should be 
doing differently.
    So, I want to just ask you a broad question here. What, in 
your mind, we need to be doing to avoid more families going 
through the pain that you and the Dunns have gone through and 
at least 300 other families in this county alone and way more--
thousands around the country?
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. Well, first, we need to close off 
opportunities for people to be bringing whatever they want over 
our borders.
    Second, 50 percent of all the fentanyl for the U.S. comes 
through Arizona, which is shocking. That means our streets are 
flooded with fentanyl. Kids in junior high, in elementary 
school, are buying this like candy.
    So, first, we need to close our border. We need to make it 
more difficult. We also need to stiffen the penalties for 
people that are producing, manufacturing, and selling all this.
    It's crazy to me when you consider the fact that 70 percent 
of the pills have a lethal dose of fentanyl in them. Of all the 
pills seized, every single one of those pills is a death 
sentence. We aren't charging that. That's not what we charge 
people with when they are seized with all these drugs. We 
charge them with possession. We charge them with production or 
manufacture, or we charge them with intent to sell. We don't 
charge them with murder, but that's what this is.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you for that. I think that message is 
loud and clear. When you look at simple economics of supply and 
demand, you can see there the price and the cost of making 
these terrible pills.
    On that front here, Mr. Clem, one thing that we touched on 
is the gotaways, right? These are the people that cameras 
detected, but they were never encountered or at any point with 
our local law enforcement or Federal law enforcement. So, as 
you look at those images walking through, they don't look like 
people that are just here for the reasons that a lot of 
immigrants are here for.
    It was mentioned that we are a country of immigrants. I 
believe that. I'm an immigrant myself. You all know that. I 
became a citizen in 2006 and a Member of Congress in 2022. No 
other country in the world would allow you to do that. I 
believe in the American Dream, but that abuse that we're seeing 
on that screen is not a reflection of that. It is not the way 
that we need to do this.
    So, when you look at these gotaways, how do you account for 
gotaways? How did you do it when you were in your position 
among different posts, and how is that compared to today? Are 
the numbers actually higher than they seem? How do you 
calculate that? Because a lot of it that is coming in, besides 
the ports of entry, it is coming in through these gotaways 
individuals.
    Mr. Clem. Yes. Thank you. So, a gotaways is somebody that 
has been detected either through--we see it with our own eyes, 
we've tracked it with our--through sign-cut and tracking 
operations, or we've caught them on video camera, but we never 
made the arrest. There was no law enforcement resolution. So, 
those are reported every 24 hours into a GPRA data base, and 
those numbers are officially recorded.
    The other part that is always concerning is the unknowns. 
Where I'm going with that is there has got to be a level of 
percentage of people that we never even get to understand if 
they crossed or we saw them on camera or anything because we 
didn't get out to the border.
    So, if we're reporting 1.8 million, we know that there is a 
percentage of people that we are just completely unaware of. So 
far, this year, there has been almost 170 different countries 
apprehended.
    In this Administration, why somebody would evade arrest by 
Border Patrol knowing that they're going to be caught and 
released should scare the heck out of everybody because the 
people that are evading Border Patrol are someone or something 
that is going to do us harm.
    In fact, I know that the numbers of criminals that have 
been encountered over the last few years on this Administration 
have doubled, if not quadrupled some of the numbers in the 
previous Administration. So, we don't have a clue of who these 
people are other than just using statistics to say they're 
probably not people we want in this country.
    Mr. Ciscomani. So, if the data reflected--this is the worst 
that we've ever seen, it's worse than the data shows being the 
worst that we've ever seen?
    Mr. Clem. I think that's a fair assessment. There is a 
pocket of just we have no idea.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. Chair, I want to be respectful of the time.
    Mr. Chilton and Mr. Kartchner, I see them on a regular 
basis. I want to thank you both for being here and for your 
perspective as well.
    I think Arizona is a State where you can see how many 
people that have moved here just recently, and we also have 
people that have been here for five generations, and everyone 
is unanimous on the opinion and the fact that this is the worst 
that we've ever seen.
    So, I will take the opportunity to speak with you, also 
offline, to respect the time.
    Mr. Chair, I want to thank you once again--you and the 
Committee Members--for coming in.
    I want to tell everyone here today that every Member here 
gave up their time to be here and have the opportunity of being 
with their constituents in their States, but they care about 
this issue. We have been leading this fight from Arizona. We're 
going to continue to do that, but as you can see here, we're 
not alone in this fight. We have a lot of fighting in us, and a 
lot of fighting still to do to protect our border. We will 
continue to do our job in doing that.
    So, I want to thank you all of you for your involvement, 
your passion, you giving up your time, and being here as well. 
We're going to continue to work on this, and you can see here 
the dedication of my colleagues. When I go back to Washington, 
this is who we're working with to make sure our border is 
secure in spite of this Administration not doing what they need 
to do to make sure that happens.
    So, thank you all.
    Thank you, sir.
    Chair Jordan. It's great to see the good Member is 
appreciated here in his district like we knew he was. Thank you 
for your leadership.
    I just want to go to the question that Mr. Crane raised, 
which is the sort of fundamental question: Why do you think 
they're doing it?
    We know it's intentional because, on day one, they decided 
no more building the wall; no longer Remain in Mexico; and 
``When you get here, you will not be detained. You will be 
released.'' They announced it to the world. So, literally, in 
three years and four months, we went from a secure border to no 
border. It still begs the fundamental question: Why? Why are 
they doing it?
    I want to know from folks on the--our witnesses. We want to 
hear from the audience, too, but I want to know from the people 
who testified here today, what do you think the ultimate 
motivation is that Mr. Crane was getting to just a few minutes 
ago? What do you think? I have an idea what I think it is, but 
I want to know what you guys think here on the front line.
    So, let's start with the gentleman with a few more years of 
wisdom than the rest of us. Let's start with the rancher, if we 
can.
    You've been here--you said your ranch has been in your 
family, like, 6,000 years or something, I think you said. So, 
Mr. Chilton, you go first. Tell me what you think. Why do you 
think Joe Biden intentionally, deliberately, in a premeditated 
fashion on January 20, 2021, changed the policies that were 
working and created the mess that we have heard about for years 
now but certainly heard about from you in such a compelling 
way?
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. All of you.
    Mr. Chilton, tell me what you think the motivation is.
    Mr. Chilton. Mr. Chair, it's purposeful, and the purpose is 
to change the demographics of this country. It's politically 
thought by the Administration, Mr. Biden, that these people 
will vote for Democrats in the future once they become citizens 
and eligible to vote. It's strictly a political ploy.
    Chair Jordan. Mr. Clem?
    Mr. Clem. Initially, my thoughts were strictly political 
spite because it took all the Executive Actions. He started on 
day one. In the first 30 days, there were 94 Executive Actions 
that directly impacted the border. So, just to undo everything 
from the previous Administration.
    Overtime, as you start looking at all this and you kind of 
piece it together, your brain wants to reason and try to find 
some facts and truth. The only thing I can come up with is 
just--and this is sitting as a citizen here testifying--is that 
the more people they can bring in, regardless of citizenry, 
they can do census. They can do population votes and gain more 
seats maybe in their favor and/or electoral college votes down 
the road to--as Mr. Chilton mentioned, to swing power in 
their--on their behalf for the future.
    I think there's no other reasoning because they're not 
being transparent other than us having to make this up.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. Politics is more important than what 
happens to kids like--
    Mr. Clem. Absolutely. They're about securing the narrative, 
not securing the border.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. That's kind of what I think, too. It's 
sad because you don't want to think that about the Commander in 
Chief of the greatest country in history. You don't want to 
think that about your government or the people who are elected 
to high offices. You just don't want to think that.
    It's tough to come up with any other conclusion because, 
again, we're all for--we've got a Member of Congress who came 
here as a legal immigrant, did it the right way, and doing an 
outstanding job. We're all for that, but what we're not for is 
the chaos, the chaos that creates situations where two young 
lives are gone. The Dunn family and other young--that's what we 
don't want.
    Mr. Kartchner, I'll give you a chance to respond.
    Mr. Kartchner. Mr. Chair, I don't know if I have an answer 
for you other than to fundamentally change our country, but 
I'll carry it on one step further. If they're looking for 
votes, if they're looking for that kind of stuff, why--and 
throughout my career, I would say somewhere in the 90 
percentile of the people that we encountered were military-age 
males.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. No, that's the scary element.
    The Chair of the Subcommittee on Immigration has warned the 
Committee now and talked to this--talked to the entire Congress 
about these people coming across, some of them who we know are 
on the terrorist watch list, but there's a whole bunch we 
don't.
    I think someone said--I think, Mr. Clem, you said earlier, 
you can walk right up to a Border Patrol agent, and you're 
going to get in. You're going to get released. We know what's 
happening. So, if you're trying to evade that, you aren't up to 
anything any good.
    That's the scary thing to--and, again, it seems to be all 
done in a deliberate way by this Administration, which is 
scary.
    Ms. Fagan Alexander, you're going to get the last word 
here, the last 30 seconds, which is probably appropriate. So, 
you go right ahead.
    Ms. Fagan Alexander. I think that these gentlemen are all 
right. I think there is political power and political gain. I 
think it is also genuinely a dislike for who we are as America. 
I don't think that he likes who we are. I don't think he wants 
us to continue having freedoms that we do. By allowing whoever 
and whatever to come over the border, it changes, it shifts, 
and I don't think he's opposed to that. That's very sad because 
I love America.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. Well, we want to thank the four of you 
for taking time out of your busy lives and coming here and 
giving compelling testimony.
    I want to thank all of you for your attendance.
    Mayor, thank you and our law enforcement for being such 
gracious hosts. I wish I could stay a little longer.
    Of course, we want to thank your Congressman who, as I have 
said now a couple times, is doing a great job. All your team 
from Arizona is doing a great job.
    Plus, I tell your Congressman all the time, his last name 
is just one of those names--it's Ciscomani. It's just one of 
those names you like to say, right? It's one of those great 
names.
    We thank you all. We're going to keep fighting and trying 
to--we have Juan's bill that we passed, a bill that our 
Committee worked on, and House Bill 2 that went through Tom's 
Subcommittee and so much work that would actually help, but the 
main problem is, as Mr. McClintock started us off with saying, 
we just need an Administration who actually enforces the 
current law. So, we're going to continue to stress that.
    God bless you all. The Committee is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:30 a.m. Mountain Time, the Committee was 
adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Committee on the Judiciary can be found at: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=117288.

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