[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME IN PHILADELPHIA
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
FRIDAY, MAY 3, 2024
__________
Serial No. 118-74
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
_______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-634 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair
DARRELL ISSA, California JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking
MATT GAETZ, Florida Member
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona ZOE LOFGREN, California
TOM McCLINTOCK, California SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
CHIP ROY, Texas Georgia
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina ADAM SCHIFF, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana ERIC SWALWELL, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin TED LIEU, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
BEN CLINE, Virginia J. LUIS CORREA, California
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
LANCE GOODEN, Texas JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey LUCY McBATH, Georgia
TROY NEHLS, Texas MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
KEVIN KILEY, California DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming CORI BUSH, Missouri
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas GLENN IVEY, Maryland
LAUREL LEE, Florida BECCA BALINT, Vermont
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
Vacancy
CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
C O N T E N T S
----------
Friday, May 3, 2024
OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary
from the State of Ohio......................................... 1
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on
the Judiciary from the State of New York....................... 3
The Honorable Madeleine Dean, a Member of the Committee on the
Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania....................... 6
The Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a Member of the Committee on the
Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania....................... 6
WITNESSES
Terri O'Connor, Spouse, Slain Philadelphia Police Officer
Oral Testimony................................................. 7
Prepared Testimony............................................. 10
Pauline Fitzgerald, Former Police Investigators
Oral Testimony................................................. 14
Dr. Joel Fitzgerald, Chief of Police and Emergency Coordinator,
Regional Transportation District
Oral Testimony................................................. 15
Prepared Testimony............................................. 18
Dr. Ruth Abaya, Attending Physician, Emergency Department,
Children's Hospital of Pennsylvania
Oral Testimony................................................. 30
Prepared Testimony............................................. 33
George Bochetto, Philadelphia Trial Attorney, Bochetto & Lentz
Oral Testimony................................................. 38
Prepared Testimony............................................. 40
Nick Gerace, Retired Philadelphia Police Officer
Oral Testimony................................................. 52
Prepared Testimony............................................. 55
Adam Garber, Executive Director, CeaseFire PA
Oral Testimony................................................. 63
Prepared Testimony............................................. 65
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
All materials submitted for the record by the Committee on the
Judiciary are listed below..................................... 93
Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the
Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Arizona, for the
record
A certified copy entitled, ``The Mayor's Operating Budget in
Brief for Fiscal Year 2021,'' Jun. 2020, James F. Kenney,
Mayor, City of Philadelphia
An article entitled, ``Remembering Philadelphia Police Sgt.
James O'Connor killed in line of duty 1 year ago,'' Mar.
13, 2021, 6ABC
An article entitled, `` `Make sure justice is served': Slain
Temple police sergeant's family calls for death penalty
for suspect,'' Jan. 23, 2024, NBC10 Philadelphia
A document entitled, ``Major Crimes as reported to PPD: Major
Crimes as reported to PPD,'' May 3, 2024, Philadelphia Police
Department, submitted by the Honorable Madeleine Dean, a Member
of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of
Pennsylvania, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a Member
of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of
Pennsylvania, for the record
An article entitled, ``How Philadelphia reduced gun violence
in 2023,'' Jan. 18, 2024, The Philadelphia Inquirer
An article entitled, ``Philly leaders encouraged by drop in
homicides so far this year,'' Apr. 30, 2024, NBC10
Philadelphia
An article entitled, ``Carjackings significantly declined in
2 years, Philadelphia Carjacking Task Force reports,''
Apr. 12, 2024, FOX 29 Philadelphia
An article entitled, ``Philly DA sets up new unit focusing on
repeat gun offenders,'' Apr. 15, 2024, WHYY
An article entitled, ``Number of homicides plummets in major
U.S. cities,'' Apr. 16, 2024, Axios
Materials submitted by the Honorable Matt Gaetz, a Member of the
Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Florida, for the
record
A report entitled, ``Philadelphia 2024: The state of the
city,'' Apr. 11, 2024, The Pew Charitable Trusts
An article entitled, ``George Soros's Prosecutors Wage War on
Law and Order,'' Jun. 22, 2023, The Heritage Foundation
An article entitled, ``Philadelphia's Soros-funded district
attorney deceived court to get murderer off `death row,'
'' Mar. 15, 2024, Washington Examiner
An article entitled, ``Guest Commentary: George Soros' Bad
Bet on Progressive Prosecutors,'' Jul. 14, 2023,
Philadelphia Citizen
APPENDIX
A statement from Douglas Murray, author, journalist, submitted by
the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the
Judiciary from the State of Ohio, for the record
VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME IN PHILADELPHIA
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Friday, May 3, 2024
House of Representatives
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 9 a.m., at the
William J. Green Jr. Federal Building, 600 Arch Street, Room
2A, Philadelphia, the Hon. Jim Jordan presiding.
Present: Representatives Jordan, Gaetz, Biggs, Cline, Van
Drew, Kiley, Nadler, Scanlon, Dean, Ross, and Ivey.
Also present: Representative Meuser.
Chair Jordan. The Committee will come to order. Without
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at any
time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on ``Victims of
Violent Crime in Philadelphia.'' The Chair now recognizes the
gentleman from New Jersey to lead us in the Pledge of
Allegiance. Mr. Van Drew.
All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States
of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one
Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for
all.
Chair Jordan. Without objection, Mr. Meuser will be allowed
to participate in today's hearing for the purpose of
questioning the witnesses and will receive five minutes for
that purpose. So welcome, Congressman Meuser, to the Judiciary
Committee for today's hearing.
The Chair will now recognize himself an opening statement.
When you do not prosecute bad guys you shouldn't be
surprised that you get more crime. When you defund the police
you shouldn't be surprised when you get more crime. When you
have a designated area for illegal drug use you shouldn't be
surprised when you get more crime. Philadelphia is doing all
three of those things, and that is why we have seen the
increase in crime we have seen in this great American city.
When you do those things there are real consequences. Real
bad things can happen when you engage in those kinds of
policies. We are going to hear from witnesses today who will
talk about the terrible things that have happened to loved ones
within their family.
At our field hearing in Manhattan we looked at the
administration of justice and the safety of communities. The
Committee continued to examine these principles with a field
hearing in Chicago, and, of course, hearings in Washington, DC.
Today, of course, we are here in Philadelphia to once again
look at the administration of justice and keeping our
communities safe. It appears Philadelphia is living up to its
1969, what The New York Times said in 1969, the nickname,
quote, ``Gang Capital of America.'' By the end of 2023,
Philadelphia surpassed 400 homicides, and there have been 24 in
the first 30 days of this calendar year.
Manhattan, Chicago, Washington, and Philadelphia have
violent crime problems. This is not the only thing they have in
common. They all have soft-on-crime prosecutors who favor the
criminals over the victims and their families.
Since the current District Attorney for Philadelphia, Larry
Krasner, began his tenure in 2018, violent crime, particularly
homicides, have increased, with crime rates reaching a peak in
2021. Philadelphia crime occurs so frequently and so
drastically that there is a Twitter account, Philly Crime
Update, to maintain a running database for the public to be
informed of major crimes throughout the city in real time.
Over the past year, property crimes, including retail theft
and carjackings, have risen by more than 15 percent compared to
last year. Retail theft has skyrocketed by almost 28 percent,
while vehicles have increased by 72 percent, although District
Attorney Krasner blames this number on flaws in the cars
themselves instead of the criminals. Go figure.
Simply put, Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner is
failing to prosecute criminals. Since his tenure began,
Krasner's office has consistently declined to prosecute crimes
in the city. In 2022, the Pennsylvania House of Representatives
introduced a resolution to impeach Krasner for several of his
policies that had caused the spikes in violent crime. Notably,
the policies include not seeking cash bail for most cases,
considering a defendant's immigration status in the plea
bargaining process, and not prosecuting crimes like
prostitution or marijuana possession.
For instance, in 2016, before Krasner took office, the
withdrawal and dismissal of violent crime cases accounted for
48 percent of all violent crime outcomes. That percentage
increased to 60, in 2019, 68 percent in 2020, and up to 70
percent in 2021. Philadelphia's pro-criminal policies embolden
criminals while victims fail to receive the justice they
deserve.
Krasner uses his office to crusade again what he considers,
quote, ``social injustices,'' such as bail reform and reduced
sentencing. However, his policies came at the expense of
victims and lost lives.
According to the Pennsylvania Commission on Sentencing, the
number of violations of Uniform Firearms Act cases are
initiated by Krasner's office but are ultimately withdrawn,
dismissed, or prosecution discontinued in a disproportionately
high comparison to other counties. Between 2015-2020, the
number of violations of Uniform Firearms Act cases within
Philadelphia increased from seven to 21 percent. In that same
time span, the commonwealth's 66 other counties experienced an
increase from 7-10.
Additionally, those charged with a VUFA offense were
charged with another offense within three years at a higher
rate in Philadelphia compared to the statewide average.
Further, the proportion of discontinued cases increased from
seven percent in 2015, 13 percent in 2018, 18 percent in 2019,
and 21 percent in 2020. It just keeps going up. By abandoning
charges against VUFA offenders, Krasner's office has allowed
more offenders who were recently arrested for possessing a
firearm to return to the community without significant
repercussions.
We can see by who the Democrats invited to appear as
witnesses at this morning's hearing that they will once again
try to blame the guns, instead of the people who use them, to
commit the crime. As we can see here in Philadelphia, when you
don't enforce gun laws already on the books, new ones will have
zero impact on the problem.
Larry Krasner should not take all the blame for the crime
gripping Philadelphia. Before Philadelphia's 2023 Mayoral
Election, the City Council and the mayor caved to the far left
movement and demanded to defund the police. For example, in
June 2020, the City Council approved a $33.3 million reduction
to the Philadelphia Police Department budget, with a commitment
to reinvest the money in other areas of the community. With
this move, Philadelphia joined other liberal-run cities, like
New York, Los Angeles, Austin, San Francisco, Washington, DC,
Baltimore, Hartford, and Seattle. In each of these cities,
after drastically cutting police spending, crime rates continue
to rise. Go figure.
In Philadelphia, since January 2020, 500 people have been
killed and more than 2,240 have been shot, which was a 40
percent increase more than the police have ever seen or ever
recorded. It is a recipe for disaster that this Committee has
seen repeatedly in Democrat-run cities. Soft-on-crime
prosecutors, mixed with elected leadership defunding the
police, lead to disastrous consequences for the citizens they
took the oath to serve.
I want to thank all the men and women in law enforcement
who work tirelessly to keep this city safe. Three of the
witnesses this morning includes loved ones of police officers
who tragically lost their lives while serving and protecting
their communities. We should all take a minute here to thank
our brave men and women in law enforcement for what they do for
all of us.
Thank you to all our brave witnesses for being here, and
again, the Capitol Police, the Philadelphia Police Department,
and the Federal Protective Service, and all the other law
enforcement folks here for everything they do to keep everyone
safe, day after day.
With that I would like to--we are going to play a quick
video, and then I will turn to Mr. Nadler for his opening
statement.
[Video plays.]
Chair Jordan. We can all tell it is a serious problem.
With that I would yield five minutes to Ranking Member, or
whatever time you want. Our clock is broken right now, but you
can take as much time as you like. The Ranking Member is
recognized.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, today the
majority has insisted that we go to Philadelphia, the fourth
stop in a tour of cities that Republicans have selected as they
try to distract from the fact that they have no meaningful
solutions to make our country safer. Instead, they have
repeatedly focused Committee activities on vilifying
immigrants, dismantling common sense in gun laws, and pursuing
wild conspiracy theories for which they have found no evidence.
While I am always pleased to visit the great city of
Philadelphia, and I have no doubt that we will learn a lot, our
time would be better spent again back in D.C. passing bills
that can help support Philadelphia and all our communities to
be safer places for every American. We should be passing bills
to invest in public safety and better law enforcement, bills
that we know will saves lives from gun violence, and bills that
address the root causes of violent crime.
I know we can do it because we have done it before, when
Democrats were in charge of this Committee.
Philadelphia, like many cities, has not waited for House
Republicans to change course. Many States and cities have taken
action to address gun violence, to invest in public safety and
law enforcement, and to address the root causes of crime, like
homelessness and economic instability. Many cities' efforts
were supported through the American Rescue Plan, which included
$350 billion of flexible aid to State and local governments.
Many States have pursued the same ideas that House Democrats
have advanced to reduced gun violence, such as enacting extreme
risk protection orders or expanded background checks at the
State level.
State and local governments have also received funding from
the Bipartisan Safer Communities Act, which funded a range of
gun violence prevention programs. All these efforts have begun
to have a meaningful impact: Crime fell in 2023 and is
continuing to fall in 2024.
So far this year, Philadelphia has had 35 percent fewer
homicides, more than a third less than it did during the same
period in 2023. That is dozens of lives saved, hundreds of
families kept whole. We know it is not nearly enough.
I want to thank the families of victims for being here to
share your stories. While there is less crime than there was a
year ago, your stories are a reminder that we must always do
more. Every life lost has a profound impact on both the family
and the community where that person should still be alive
today. While homicides are the most serious crimes, we know
that other violent crimes also leave a lasting mark on
individuals whose lives may never be the same. For every
survivor and victim of violent crime with us today and across
the country, I remain committed to doing more to help you and
to prevent more people from experiencing what you have faced.
Ms. O'Connor, there is no law that will bring back your
husband. Mr. and Ms. Fitzgerald, there is no grant program that
will ever bring back your son. I believe we do have solutions
to prevent gun violence, including gun violence against law
enforcement officers, like your loved ones.
I appreciate the opportunity to hear from members of law
enforcement, from those who have lost a family member to
violent crime, and to those working toward lifesaving
solutions. I just wish it were part of a serious effort on the
part of Republicans to find bipartisan solutions to the
challenges we face with violent crime instead of pure political
theater designed to fit a false narrative about Democrats.
If Republicans were serious about addressing violent crime,
we would not be in Philadelphia but in one of their own
districts. We have yet to have a hearing on victims of violent
crime in any of the six States with the highest per capita
murder rates, all who are led by Republicans, and all who voted
for Trump in 2020.
Nonetheless, I hope we can learn something today about how
Philadelphia has achieved its recent reductions in violent
crime and how we can further support its public safety efforts
and the efforts of State and local governments nationwide. We
know that this is not just the work of government or law
enforcement, but that we must also include the work of
community organizations, public health experts, educators,
researchers, and more. It is only by working together that we
will make progress.
Let me end by saying a word in defense of one of the
Democratic district leaders who have been slandered by the
Republicans--district attorneys, I should say--my own district
attorney, Alvin Bragg, who is the first in this country who has
managed to bring to trial that serial felon, Donald Trump.
I thank our witnesses for being here, and I yield back the
balance of my time.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. Without objection,
all the opening statements will be included in the record. We
will now introduce today's witnesses.
Mr. George Bochetto is a trial attorney and litigator with
Bochetto & Lentz here in Philadelphia. In 2022, Mr. Bochetto
was retained by the Pennsylvania House of Representatives as a
Special Counsel working on the impeachment of District Attorney
Larry Krasner. We welcome you today.
Mr. Nick Gerace is a retired Philadelphia police officer
who served 12 years with the Philadelphia Police Department.
Since retiring, Mr. Gerace has advocated for community safety
and a greater emphasis on prosecuting violent criminals.
Ms. Terri O'Connor. Ms. O'Connor's husband, Corporal Jim
O'Connor, was a Philadelphia police officer shot and killed in
the line of duty while executing a warrant on March 13, 2020.
Corporal O'Connor was a 23-year veteran of the Police
Department and served 15 years with the SWAT team. O'Connor was
the son of a police officer. Terri and Jim's son is a
Philadelphia police officer, as well, and their daughter serves
in the United States Air Force. Thank you and your entire
family for your service to the community and to our great
country.
Dr. Joel Fitzgerald and Ms. Pauline Fitzgerald. Mr.
Fitzgerald has served in law enforcement for more than 30
years, including with the Philadelphia Police Department, and
was Chief of Police in Missouri City, Texas; Allentown,
Pennsylvania; Fort Worth, Texas; and Waterloo, Iowa. Ms.
Fitzgerald served in law enforcement for more than 25 years
with the Philadelphia Police Department; Stafford, Texas,
Police Department; the Pennsylvania Attorney General's Office;
and the Tarrant County Criminal District Attorney's Office.
One of the Fitzgeralds' children, Sergeant Christopher
Fitzgerald, was shot and killed in the line of duty on February
18, 2023. Sergeant Fitzgerald was an officer with the Temple
University Police Department. We thank you and your entire
family for your service, as well, and we feel for your great
loss.
I now want to recognize Congresswoman Dean and Congressman
Scanlon to introduce Mr. Garber and Dr. Abaya.
Ms. Dean. Thank you, Chair, and I welcome all my colleagues
to our great city of Philadelphia. I thank the testifiers for
being here today.
It is my pleasure to introduce a friend and an advocate and
a colleague, frankly, Adam Garber. He is the Executive Director
for CeaseFirePA. I have known Adam a long time in his capacity
as an advocate around reducing and stamping out gun violence,
along with I believe we have CeaseFirePA folks in the audience.
Thank you for taking the time to be here with us, and thank you
for your advocacy.
What CeaseFire does--and I know this personally because I
was a State representative--is work with doctors, with
advocates, with elected officials at the State level, trying to
change legislation to reduce gun violence, and you have had
some success this year since we got a Democratic majority in
the Pennsylvania House. So, thank you for your tireless
advocacy around these things.
I also do want to just say to Ms. Fitzgerald, Dr.
Fitzgerald, and Ms. Fitzgerald in the audience, there really
aren't any words except to say that we are serious about
reducing gun violence. We thank you for your service. We are
sorry for your grave loss.
Ms. O'Connor, to you as well, thank you very much for being
here, for offering us your husband's story of service. I hope
what we can do here today is find solutions, things that work,
instead of trying to politicize what is going on.
So, with that Mr. Garber is introduced.
Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, and I do want to echo the remarks
thanking our witnesses for being here today. Just to correct
the record, Ms. O'Connor's husband was promoted to sergeant
posthumously in recognition of his service, so I wanted to make
sure that was clear.
I would like to introduce Dr. Ruth Abaya. She is an
attending physician in the Emergency Department at Children's
Hospital of Philadelphia, and a scholar at CHOP's Center for
Violence Prevention. She is also an Associate Professor of
Pediatrics at the Perelman School of Medicine at the University
of Pennsylvania.
She received her BA from Bluffton University, which I
believe is in Mr. Jordan's district. She got a combined MD,
Master of Public Health from Northwestern University. She
completed her residency at Boston Children's Hospital, and a
fellowship at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Her
research focuses include gun violence prevention with
particular emphasis on access to firearms among high-risk
adolescents, as well as patient-centered approaches to
prevention that draw on the experiences of the youth
themselves.
As a fellow at the Stoneleigh Foundation, she is working to
create a registry of those who have experienced firearm
injuries in Philadelphia, to identify the most promising
practices for violence prevention and intervention in the city.
Previously, Dr. Abaya led the Injury Prevention Program at
the Philadelphia Department of Public Health, where she oversaw
the development of citywide program coalitions, including a
hospital-based Violence Intervention Program Coalition and a
Cure Violence/Violence Interruption coalition.
In recognition of her lifesaving work, Dr. Abaya was named
the Philadelphia Eagles Inaugural Inspired Change Changemaker
of 2022. She is a member of the National Medical Council on Gun
Violence and has presented on gun safety counseling at the
National Physicians Alliance's national conference.
So, welcome to all our witnesses.
Chair Jordan. Thank you. We welcome our witnesses, and
thank them for appearing today. We will begin by swearing you
in. Would you please rise and raise your right hand.
Do you solemnly swear or affirm, under the penalty of
perjury, that the testimony you are about to give is true and
correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief,
so help you God?
Chair Jordan. Let the record reflect that the witnesses
have answered in the affirmative. You all may sit down. Thank
you.
Please know that your written testimony will be entered
into the record in its entirely. Accordingly, we ask that you
summarize your testimony in five minutes. I think the clock is
now working. I think that is the case. We are going to be a
little flexible with time.
Before recognizing Ms. O'Connor, I do also want to
recognize we have a number of students from the University of
Pennsylvania here today. We appreciate you all being here. I
know there are some things going on on your campus that we
don't particularly like, but we are glad that you are here. We
are glad that you are here with us today, as well.
Ms. O'Connor, you may begin.
STATEMENT OF TERRI O'CONNOR
Ms. O'Connor. Good morning, everyone. My name is Terri
O'Connor. My husband, Jim, was a corporal in the Philadelphia
Police Department. He had 23 years with the department, the
last 15 in which he worked in the highly elite SWAT unit. On
March 13, 2020, Jim was shot and killed while serving an early
morning, high-risk murder warrant.
Our lives were forever changed at 6:09 a.m., when Jim was
pronounced dead. I last spoke with him about 11 p.m., the night
prior. It was my 45th birthday. He kissed me goodbye, wished me
another Happy Birthday, told me he loved me and said, ``I'll
see you in the morning.''
I awoke to a phone call that Jim was shot, followed by
police officers shortly after, escorting me to the hospital,
where I saw my husband's lifeless body. It's a memory that will
never escape my brain.
How did this happen? I always thought Jim was more covered
with larger vests, and protective helmets. Unfortunately, he
was shot in the forearm and in a small area, near the left
shoulder blade, where he was not protected. What I would soon
learn next about the entire situation is a scenario I could
never fully imagine.
When Jim and his team entered the house that morning, they
were immediately fired on. Approximately 12-16 shots were fired
from inside that morning, two of which struck Jim. There were
10 guns, along with endless amounts of drugs found in the tiny
one bedroom the four men were hiding in.
I should mention, a SWAT officer returned fire, striking
two people in the house. At one point, a voice came from inside
the room asking the police to stop shooting at them, because
someone was shot inside the small bedroom. The officers then
stopped, and had the men come out of the room, one by one. All
four men, any of who could have been the potential fatal
shooter, came out alive.
I could speak easily for an hour about the lengthy criminal
records these four males had. A month before Jim's murder one
of the males was arrested and let out twice for drug dealing.
He had three open juvenile cases and one previous arrest as an
adult. He was supposed to be on a GPS monitor, which he wasn't
wearing either time. He could have been put in detention, but
instead under Larry Krasner he was released on his own
recognizance and no bail required. He was charged as an adult
with carrying guns while selling drugs, but due to the low bail
that was set, he walked out easily both times. He had many
other run-ins with the law over the past few years, and was
described as a major drug dealer, a flight risk, and a danger
to community. None of this mattered.
The man that fired the shots that killed my husband was
charged two years prior to Jim's death for carrying firearms
without a license. He got nine--23 months in prison, but walked
out of court that day a free man, because the court accepted as
his prison term the amount of jail time he previously served.
As part of the deal the district attorney agreed to drop two
other charges, intentional possession of a controlled substance
and a charge of carrying firearms in public. While on
probation, three different times, this same male was brought
before the judge on violations of parole, and the District
Attorney's Office allowed him to continue being on probation.
One year before Jim's murder, this same male was arrested
again, this time for a direct violation of his probation. A
newly assigned assistant district attorney told the judge the
District Attorney's Office was withdrawing the drug charge.
Allegedly the same month he was given the pass on the drug
charge, this male committed a robbery and a murder. He was able
to elude the police until March 13, 2020. In the months to come
after, prosecutors would come to learn about five murders this
male committed after he proudly scraped the names into his
prison cell wall.
Another male that was in the room was on parole at the time
for a 2016 gun possession case, which he had served State
prison time. The fourth male in the room happened to be wanted
for one of the murders as the main shooter. Again, I could go
on and on about this male and the many other arrests he had in
the prior years, along with the rap sheets of the other three
males in that room that fateful morning.
That leads us to where we are today. We have a city in
shambles. We have a district attorney who says crime is down.
Well, obviously if you don't prosecute criminals, of course it
appears that way. How many second, third, fourth, and even more
chances are to be given? I have always said it seems to take
something personally happening to your family to have people
truly understand the repercussions of these lenient policies.
The one thing that gives me some peace of mind with this case
is that these men were charged federally. That gives us the
best chance these men never see the outside of a jail cell ever
again. They took away something from us that could never be
replaced. and need to face the most severe consequences.
I have a daughter whose father didn't get to walk her down
the aisle at her wedding, a son who continues to follow in his
father footsteps, trying to make him proud while raising his
two daughters who will never know their pop. Then, there is
myself. I became a widow the day after I turned 45. I have come
to hate my birthday. We were 1 month shy of our 25th Wedding
Anniversary, and I was left to figure out a life that I could
have never imagined. I have said from the beginning, even if it
gets me nowhere I will use my voice to speak out in every way
possible to speak about how Jim's death didn't need to occur.
My husband got up and went to work just to do his job. If our
district attorney, prosecutors, and judges did their job, maybe
he would still be here today.
Thank you for taking the time to listen to my story.
[Prepared statement of Ms. O'Connor follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chair Jordan. Thank you, Ms. O'Connor. Ms. Fitzgerald.
STATEMENT OF PAULINE FITZGERALD
Ms. Fitzgerald. Please allow me to share the last moments
of our son's life, Temple University Police Sergeant
Christopher Fitzgerald. They were captured on a Ring camera
video. The date Saturday, February 18, 2023, is seared in our
hearts and our minds. On that day, at approximately 7 p.m.,
Chris was on patrol in a marked patrol vehicle and engaged in a
Bluetooth telephone call with his friend, before taking notice
of the defendant and his cohorts. Chris focused on the masked
defendant and attempted to stop the defendant.
Chris was wearing a police bicycle officer uniform
consisting of a two-tone neon reflective Temple University bike
uniform shirt, with police patches and the word ``Police''
clearly identifying him as a law enforcement officer.
Chris transmits over his police radio his call sign and
that he is in pursuit. The Ring camera captures the defendant
fleeing on foot, and moments later Chris catches the defendant.
He can be seen and heard providing clear, articulate, and
lawful verbal commands to the defendant to get on the ground.
Chris is captured in the video using his training and the
minimum amount of force necessary to bring the defendant under
his control. He is attempting to make a lawful arrest.
The defendant is actively resisting arrest, and he has
already made the conscious decision that he refuses to
surrender peacefully. In fact, you can hear Chris telling him,
``Come on, bro.'' This phrase reinforces that Chris was using
minimum force, and when it is obtained voluntary compliance
from the defendant. The defendant made the conscious decision
to refuse to surrender peacefully. ``Come on, bro,'' will be
the last words Chris will ever State.
The defendant is then heard saying, ``Why?'' This is the
moment immediately preceding his decision to discharge the
first of six gunshots to strike our son in the middle of a busy
Philadelphia street. Chris neither beat the defendant nor
utilized inappropriate force. Our collective professional
opinion, garnered over approximately 60 years of collective law
enforcement experience in four U.S. States is the subject used
this as an apparent calculated ruse to distract and mentally
disarm Chris, by feigning compliance and making him believe
that he was going to lawfully surrender before viciously firing
and striking him.
Chris immediately falls to the ground, onto his back, from
the defendant's first shot, which incapacitates him. He is not
observed moving without external manipulation again.
The next point in the video reveals the defendant's
malicious and callous depravity. He stands over Chris, while
incapacitated, and inexplicably makes the conscious decision to
shoot him that states five additional times. Each of the six
total shots are calculated fatal kill shots. They all strike
our son in the neck, face, and head. The defendant
intentionally ensured Chris' death by shooting him and striking
him above the body armor. Those actions make it apparent that
the defendant is highly intelligent, and his actions were both
purposeful and calculated. He knew that ballistic vests failed
to cover the areas above an officer's neck, and capitalized on
that knowledge. He placed himself in the circumstances that he
practiced for.
The defendant's crimes could have stopped there, but as the
video evidence supports they did not. He proves himself to be
even more than a highly sophisticated criminal because he
further diversifies his criminality, distinguishing himself
from other dangerous shooters. He did not stop at the cold,
calculated murder of the law enforcement officer. He commits
two robberies using a firearm, doubling down on his nebulous
achievement. He commits a carjacking as aggravated robbery,
REAP, PIC, POW, VUFA, and a
plethora of associated charges. All his criminal acts occur in
a heavily populated neighborhood, while onlookers and witnesses
can never unsee the psychological trauma he inflicted and the
physical jeopardy he placed them in. They were frozen, as they
were frozen in their vehicles.
The defendant elevates the level of felonious criminality,
committing a robbery on a mortally wounded uniformed officer.
The level of criminality, or pure evil, that it takes after
shooting a uniformed police officer, this defendant then lifts
my son's limp arm to access his pockets to rob him of his
personal belongings. The defendant moves on to Chris' holster
and firearm. He forcibly yanks it, with extreme force that the
holster is moved from the right side of his body to near his
zipper. He intended to kill a cop that day.
While Chris lay mortally wounded, this defendant's criminal
mind raced as he feverishly attempted to take his service
weapon. It was not enough to possess the gun that already had
our son's blood on it, the one used to kill Chris. He had every
opportunity to flee the scene after the first shot disabled
Chris but decided to rob Chris and the Asian male complainant
he calmly carjacked thereafter. Only he can tell us whether he
intended to sell the second gun or commit further crimes with
it.
The defendant displayed wanton disregard for law
enforcement, and his indifference to human life is obvious. All
the aforementioned behaviors occurred in a densely populated
area in the presence of witnesses who were recklessly placed in
serious danger because of his continuing course of criminal
conduct.
The only way to stop these murders of police officers is to
enforce our laws and to hold those persons placed in positions
to enforce these laws accountable. These criminals must be
punished to the highest extent of the law to ensure that they
are not free to commit those crimes again.
There is no do-over when you take a life. Our loved ones
are gone forever. The pain and trauma from our young son's
family will be felt for generations. My daughter-in-law,
Marissa, is now a widow, and must now raise their children as a
single mother. This defendant broke a two-parent home, leaving
our grandchildren fatherless.
Thank you for your time.
Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mrs. Fitzgerald. Said like only a
mom can say it. Dr. Fitzgerald, your five minutes.
STATEMENT OF DR. JOEL FITZGERALD
Dr. Fitzgerald. It is pretty hard to followup my wife's
testimony, but thank you, Chair Jordan, thank you to the
Committee Members here today, in particular, those who are
concerned about these soft-on-crime approaches in this country,
and equally weak prosecutorial efforts, let's say, that have
happened in this city and basically eviscerated a once noble
police department, endangering the lives of all Philadelphians.
We were both Philadelphia police officers for many years so we
identify with what these officers are going through.
In the case of the murder of our son, Chris Fitzgerald, the
DA here in the city has displayed an incessant and transparent
unwillingness to expose a person of privilege to the death
penalty. This is a capital crime in the commonwealth of
Pennsylvania. This consideration is what the DA gives a jury.
He empowers the jury to consider death. It is on the books; it
is the law.
When you raise your right hand as the district attorney in
the commonwealth of Pennsylvania you swear to uphold the
Constitution of the United States and of this commonwealth.
First, I would like to see if Mr. Krasner is here. I don't
think he is, but he had every opportunity to be here. When he
raised his arm and he swore, like we swore today to testify
before you, to uphold those laws, he is not doing so when what
my wife described meets every prong of a death penalty case. I
don't care what your position is on the death penalty. What I
do care about is that we uphold the law.
The criminals in Philadelphia look at everything that goes
on here. They watch TV, they listen to the radio, and they know
that Krasner gives them a free pass. We, as a family--my
daughter-in-law, my wife, and I--on the 24th day of this month
had to present the various aggravators before the District
Attorney's Office. We should never have had to do that. A
District Attorney, in any State or commonwealth in the United
States, should stand up for the families and the victims of
violent crime, and those folks should also be the people who
represent us and not have to be lobbied to do the right thing
by law. We are not asking for anyone to die. We are asking for
the rightful consideration to be given to an empaneled jury so
they can decide what the fate is of this heinous murderer.
This DA took almost one year to even take this preliminary
hearing for our son's murderer to court, one year. Four
continuances are allowed, more than allowing the defense to
gather their information, on mitigators in this case, well
beyond that, to let the press die down, with the hope that
since we come from Colorado that we wouldn't come here. We are
Philadelphian. We care about this city. We care about the crime
that is going on. With all due respect to some of the testimony
we have heard here already, this city is coming out of
prepandemic crime numbers. I should say we are hitting
prepandemic crime numbers. So, crime is down in many cities
across the country, but what level of crime is acceptable? I
beg you. It is certainly not acceptable to the police officers
or to the community members who are latchkey and affected by
the violent crime that keeps them in their homes, inside of
neighborhoods, and don't allow them to enjoy the fruits of
their labor.
This prosecutor, Larry Krasner, ceded the advantage to the
defense. He represents us, he represents my daughter-in-law, he
represents my dead son, and he ceded the advantage to the
defense attorneys.
I will say this. It is unfortunate. He did a press
conference yesterday, and he trotted out his supporters, many
of whom are Black and Brown, just like we are. We are a blended
family, obviously. He had religious leaders in the city who
have traded the potential for justice and a more livable city,
in this case for our son, as well, to either be silent or to
advocate for somebody that doesn't do the right thing, to
advocate for someone that refuses to thoroughly punish
individuals who deserve it, to advocate for someone who opens a
revolving door for criminals in this city, and around this
city, to come in and prey on citizens, like the shooter did the
night he attacked our son.
That is the power of some of the, as I call it, regressive
district attorneys out there, who mask their dangerous personal
agendas and destroy hundreds of families, and they say it is
under the guise of creating fairness, equality, and being able
to bridge the disparate impacts that it has on communities.
What about the impacts that it has on those community members
who are actually affected by violent crime?
Yesterday, if you were to listen to the testimony of Mr.
Krasner and the pundits that he pushed up to the stage, it
would have you believe that everything is OK. It is far from OK
in this city. There are some great people working to correct
things. Kevin Bethel is the new police commissioner. He is just
like family to me. He is actually the person that encouraged me
to become a police officer. I have every confidence in the
world in him. What I don't have confidence in is that Mr.
Krasner will align himself with the mayor of the city, with
everyone in the city trying to reverse the negative trends of
violent crime, and a true partnership and a meaningful
partnership, because he is part of the problem. He opens that
door. He creates the recidivist opportunities to attack
Philadelphians.
I realize I am running out of time, but I have to mention
the vigilant efforts of the Philadelphia Police Department, the
Temple University Police Department, and those who are out
there every day and who keep their chins up. It is up to you,
Members of the Committee, to help them keep their chins up, to
keep bringing up the fact that prepandemic violent crime levels
are still unacceptable. Yes, we have seen double the amount of
homicides in some cities and triple over the last few years,
but even in 2018, those numbers were greatly, greatly elevated
from previous years. We have got to do something different.
Philadelphia stakeholders have to do something different.
I will close out by saying I hope the testimony helps
citizens better understand that district attorneys and the
people that they are able to push out in press conferences
aren't necessarily representative of the city as a whole nor
the feelings of citizens as a whole. We can conduct studies. We
can do it now. I will help conduct those studies. We need to
ask every Philadelphian, every Philadelphia stakeholder how
they feel. We have folks that align themselves with a certain
financier who facilitates this notion that cities, inner cities
in particular, are safe, when I know that the residents in
inner-city Philadelphia feel differently. I will help them put
those studies together, and I will help them assess those
results in a fair and unbiased manner. Thank you.
[Prepared statement of Dr. Fitzgerald follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chair Jordan. Thank you, Doctor. Mrs. Fitzgerald, thank
you, and Marissa, thank you, and Ms. O'Connor, God bless you
all. Dr. Abaya.
STATEMENT OF DR. RUTH ABAYA
Dr. Abaya. Good morning. Thank you to the Committee for
inviting me to speak to you today. My name is Ruth Abaya, and I
am privilege to serve as an attending physician at the
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, in the Division of
Emergency Medicine. I have had the opportunity there to work on
the issue of community violence through our Center for Violence
Prevention, and I have had the past privilege, as you heard, to
serve as the Injury Prevention Program Manager for the
Department of Public Health.
The issue of community violence is of critical importance
to the patients we serve in Philadelphia. Violence has long
been a public health crisis, with significant impact on the
lives and well-being of each and every resident of the city,
and with a disproportionate impact in Black and Brown
communities with histories of chronic disinvestment. During the
COVID-19 pandemic, Philadelphia and many cities across the
Nation saw historic increases in firearm-related related
violence. In 2020, firearm-related injuries became the leading
cause of death for children and youth 1-19 years of age
nationally.
The impact of firearm violence is not just limited to
patients and their immediate families. Research conducted at
CHOP has demonstrated that those who live within a quarter mile
of a shooting incident were almost twice as likely to come to
the emergency department for mental health-related needs. This
research also demonstrated that the closer a child's proximity
to a violent injury, the stronger the effect.
Our communities need true and lasting solutions to this
crisis. Like many cities, we are seeing some promising
reduction in firearm-related violence. However, 2023 remained
above prepandemic levels. We must use this opportunity to learn
more about what works to sustainably reduce violence and create
resilient, thriving communities.
I came to this work through my clinical training, where I
often had conversations with youth who had expressed no
expectation of living past their 25th birthday. Too often
survivors would be returned to their society with no resources
to provide an offramp to safety, hope, or healing, and no
connection to strategies that could interrupt the cycle of
violence.
Community violence intervention, or CVI, is defined as a
suite of evidence-informed strategies that aim to reduce
violence through engaging the community, especially those at
highest risk. Individuals or groups are then connected to
critical resources and services such as employment and trauma
healing, and to interrupt cycles of retaliatory violence. This
work depends on the knowledge and expertise of critical
messengers, individuals from community who have lived,
experienced, and are well positioned to engage those at high
risk in CVI strategies. Community violence intervention is
powerful because it has the potential to impact those at
highest risk of involvement in violence on either side of the
gun, changing a person's trajectory and impacting their life-
long term.
One CVI strategy that creates a bridge between the hospital
and the community is Hospital-Based Violence Intervention
Programs, or HVIPs. These programs are multidisciplinary
programs that provide safety planning, services, and trauma-
informed care to patients with violent injuries. The CHIP
Violence Intervention Program, or VIP, provides long-term
comprehensive case management services to youths who come to
the emergency department for a violent injury. This work
recognizes the long-term physical, emotional, and social
impacts of violence.
HVIPs have shown potential in reducing exposure to repeat
violent injury, supporting basic needs and mental health needs,
improving psychosocial outcomes, and reducing exposure to the
criminal justice system. This model is part of the CHOP Center
for Violence Prevention's comprehensive approach to addressing
violence and its impacts in our communities. Violence and the
resultant trauma can occur at any points in a child's life, in
a person's life, and the center does work with community
partners around bullying prevention, addressing intimate
partner violence, firearm safety and safe storage, and suicide
prevention, all while pursuing rigorous research to understand
the impact of these programs and strategies.
The CHOP VIP program is one of several HVIPs in the city of
Philadelphia which cover most of our Level 1 trauma centers. In
my tie at the Department of Public Health we created an HVIP
coalition that provided a community of practice around programs
who are meeting the needs of violently injured patients
throughout the city. In partnership with a similar coalition of
violence interruption programs such as Cure Violence, formed at
the same time, these programs form a critical part of the CVI
ecosystem, defined as the city's violence intervention
infrastructure, connecting stakeholders who work in various
sectors to implement a comprehensive slate of strategies that
address the dynamics of violence.
Working with a community of practice holds potential to
limit duplication, identify common best practices, and improve
the quality of services throughout the city. Many of these
models have a critical point in common. They all seek to engage
those at high risk of exposure to the trauma of violence. A
critical role for communities of practice is to work together
to strengthen the local ecosystem so that this work is
streamlined and impactful.
I want to end with the story of one young man whose story
exemplifies how life courses can be altered by the work of CVI,
and why continued investment in this work can be so
transformative. This young man was a survivor of violence, but
he also had a complicated chronic disease. Between navigating
his injury, contending with housing insecurity, and attempting
to return to school, his physical and mental health were at
risk. Through an HVIP, his violence intervention specialist
advocated for him in the school setting, in finding stable
housing, in securing his medications, in attending his followup
appointments with his trauma team, and in getting connected to
mental health services. These interventions likely saved his
life and provided an opportunity to exit the harmful cycle of
violence and find safety and health.
Far too many survivors of violence could benefit from these
powerful programs. The future of community violence
intervention holds a great deal of promise for communities like
Philadelphia, and investment in these models in the areas of
programming and research can help cities build a sustainable
path to violence reduction and community safety. We stand ready
to support any such efforts.
Thank you so much for allowing me to testify about this
important issue, and I am looking forward to taking questions.
[Prepared statement of Dr. Abaya follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chair Jordan. Thank you, Doctor. Mr. Bochetto.
STATEMENT OF GEORGE BOCHETTO
Mr. Bochetto. Thank you very much. Mr. Chair and the
Committee Members, good morning. My name is George Bochetto,
and I have lived and worked in Philadelphia for the better part
of 50 years now. I am a trial lawyer, and during my career I
have handled many high-profile and important matters in courts
all over this country including the U.S. Supreme Court. I was
also engaged as the lead attorney to handle the impeachment
process for Larry Krasner in the Pennsylvania House of
Representatives in 2022.
It is truly an honor to be invited to give testimony to
this Committee on this most important topic, and I thank Chair
Jordan for the opportunity.
Larry Krasner took over the District Attorney's Office in
2018. What followed was an unprecedented explosion of crime and
violence. Through a combination of progressive policies and
endless incompetence, Krasner has actively encouraged criminal
behavior. In Krasner's first term in office the murder rate in
Philadelphia increased by 78 percent, and I would wish to point
out that when we note currently about the reduction in the
murder rate, we are talking about a reduction from an
unprecedented explosion of murders in this city, and the
reduction level is still outrageous.
In a single year 562 human beings had their lives stolen
from them, and it is predictably the result of these nihilistic
policies that Larry Krasner has implemented. Who they impact,
more than anybody, are the so-called persons who he is trying
to protect, the minorities and the poor communities. Those are
where the impacts are felt the heaviest.
I got involved many years ago in a case with Larry Krasner
in perhaps the most notorious case in Philadelphia's history,
the killing of Officer Daniel Faulkner, by one Mumia Abu Jamal,
who admitted to the killing, was tried by a jury, and was
convicted with overwhelming evidence.
Since that time, some 30 years ago, Mr. Jamal has filed a
series of appeals and repeat motions in an effort to gain his
release from prison, and he was singularly unsuccessful until
Mr. Krasner took office. During that time, Mr. Krasner had the
fifth PCRA appeal filed by Abu Jamal, and literally ignored the
filing, missed briefing deadlines, and told prosecutors to
stand down. He was literally tanking the case to set free
perhaps the most notorious killer in Philadelphia's history,
and a killer, by the way, who was notorious internationally.
I was engaged by Maureen Faulkner, Danny Faulkner's widow,
and I filed an emergency petition in the Pennsylvania Supreme
Court, known as a Kings Bench Petition. I bypassed the trial
level, I bypassed the appellate level, and I went right to the
Supreme Court, because of the seriousness of what was taking
place. I pointed out to the Supreme Court the terrible,
irreconcilable conflicts of interest that Larry Krasner had in
trying to tank this conviction. Thank God the Supreme Court
stepped in and we now continue to maintain Mr. Jamal where he
belongs, in prison.
There are so many other cases that I can point to and give
you examples of individuals who committed crimes, violent
crimes, who are allowed to go free on bail, who were released
on their own recognizance, who were violating the Uniform
Firearms Act, and are back on the streets, committing murders
in this city, committing carjackings, committed violent crimes,
and this is all directly as a result of Mr. Krasner's policies.
I would be happy, during the questioning period, to detail
exactly how some of those came about.
Let me just also say this. It is not just that Mr. Krasner
has taken on himself to be derelict in his responsibilities in
violent crimes and murder cases. He also regards himself as a
one-man legislature. In Pennsylvania, we have laws against
prostitution, and those laws are designed to help drug-addicted
young women, who are victims of human trafficking and abuse.
Larry Krasner has taken it on himself, and has issued a
memorandum to his staff, we will no longer, in Philadelphia,
prosecute prostitution. He overruled the Pennsylvania
legislature in one fell swoop, and no one has challenged him on
it. Well, we challenged him in the impeachment proceedings.
Theft is also a crime in Pennsylvania, but in Philadelphia
you can steal up to $500 in a convenience store, a Wawa, or a
department store and you will not be prosecuted. This is the
one-man legislature of Larry Krasner, and it has led to a
lawlessness, a street crime, and a level of disrespect that
affects everybody's quality of life, and begs the criminals to
become more emboldened and more dangerous on our streets.
I am here because I have dedicated my professional career
to due process and the rule of law, and I can tell you, being
in the trenches, working in this city directly, one on one,
with the Krasner Administration, the idea of due process of law
and rule of law are abused, ignored, and disregarded, and it
needs to stop.
Thank you so much for hearing me out.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Bochetto follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chair Jordan. Thank you. Mr. Garber.
STATEMENT OF ADAM GARBER
Mr. Garber. Good morning, and thank you, Chair Jordan,
Ranking Member Nadler, and the Members of the U.S. House
Judiciary Committee. Thanks for visiting Philadelphia and
discussing how we can make this community and other communities
safer.
As the Executive Director for CeaseFirePA, we are the
commonwealth gun violence prevention organization, and our team
includes gun owners who believe responsible gun ownership and
gun safety laws go hand in hand, survivors of this crisis,
doctors who have treated wounds in the emergency rooms, parents
who worry about their children, and faith leaders who counsel
families at the worst moments of their lives.
I made my home in Philadelphia 17 years ago. I ride SEPTA
nearly every day, often with my five-year-old child, and
commute around the city, including today.
As you have heard, we saw an enormous spike in gun violence
and violence in crime over the beginnings of the pandemic. A
thousand more residents died from gunfire during that time.
Contrary to public perception, criminal activity and drugs were
not the primary drivers of this violence. A review of more than
2,000 shootings by law enforcement, public health experts,
courts, and other public safety experts found arguments were
responsible for 50 percent of all shootings. Drug trafficking
was only 18 percent.
This also aligns with what we know about widespread firearm
access. It can turn everyday interpersonal conflicts into fatal
accidents, including arguments on SEPTA buses, sitting in a
car, and in a very sad Philadelphia incident, while waiting for
a cheesesteak during the pandemic in 2021. Social media further
amplifies this conflict, especially among the city's youth.
It is worth noting, as we talk here, that this same problem
is playing out in other communities across the commonwealth,
even at higher rates. In 2022, the city of York had a higher
homicide rate per capital than Philadelphia.
Violence is going down, though. Gun homicides dropped in
2023 by 22 percent in Philadelphia, and for the current year
they have dropped another 44 percent compared to the same time
period in 2023. We are on pace for less than 300 homicides, and
while each of those is an awful catastrophe that we must still
do more to prevent, it shows we are headed in the right
direction.
Three things are driving the reversal: First, the emotional
and mental strength the pandemic receded. Second, gun sales
began to subside. There were more than four million firearm
transfers from 2020-2022 in Pennsylvania. Last and most
importantly, thanks to the American Rescue Plan, the Bipartisan
Safer Communities Act, and State-level funding there was a
historic investment in community-based violence prevention
programs. Those use trusted messengers to deescalate conflict,
help victims recover after shootings, stopping retaliations.
Statewide, more than $200 million was given to district
attorneys, local law enforcement, and nonprofits to address the
crisis. In the case of Philadelphia, the city's Group Violence
Prevention Program received funding, and groups that were
involved in that program were 38 percent less likely to be
involved in shootings than those that were not.
Still, we must do more about this crisis, as we have heard
today, and this Committee, Congress, and the PA General
Assembly has a critical part to play. There are multiple
popular, bipartisan gun safety policies to prevent a shooting
before it happens, rather than more victims being created and
punt afterwards. Three already passed the Pennsylvania House of
Representatives with bipartisan support: Universal background
checks, extreme risk protection orders, and banning ghost guns.
Ghost guns are the IKEA of firearms. You can order them online,
they are mostly built, and in less than an hour, with simple
tools and no significant expertise put together a firearm as
deadly as any you would buy at a dealer.
In September 2022, rec center worker Tiffany Fletcher was
killed with one, and it has become a lucrative business for gun
traffickers in the area. In Montgomery County, a trio was
making a profit by turning ghost gun kits into firearms and
then selling them. A few weeks ago, House Bill 777, to treat
ghost guns like other firearms requiring background checks and
serialization, passed with bipartisan support, including
Representative Martina White, the former head of the
Philadelphia GOP and Majority Caucus Secretary.
A second pathway for firearms used in violent crimes are
stolen or lost firearms. As the Cambria County's district
attorney recently told media, ``There are lots of stolen guns
floating around. They show up on crime scenes on a very regular
basis.''
Stolen guns also rose in conjunction with the rising
violence being discussed today, climbing 38 percent between
2019-2021 in Philadelphia. There is no requirement that you
report your missing weapon if it goes away, if you lose it, or
if it is stolen. Responsible firearm owners do report their
missing firearms. It is the irresponsible ones, and those
intent on trafficking guns that do not, and Congress can make
it a requirement.
Last, we should talk about where these guns are always
coming from. If a health inspector didn't show up at your
favorite restaurant for years, even a decade, you would be much
more likely to get food poisoning or find rats, because
inspectors help ensure everyone follows the safety guidelines.
Unfortunately, licensed firearm dealers operate in a world
where they are inspected every 5-7 years by ATF. Most dealers
will have few problems with these inspections. They work hard
to ensure their weapons are not at crime scenes, even
cooperating with law enforcement around suspicious purposes.
Sn analysis by the Brady Campaign and PA's Track and Trace
Program, which was designed to help law enforcement prevent the
trafficking that is enabling all this violent crime, found that
50 percent of recovered crime guns in the commonwealth came
from only one percent of dealers. The U.S. Congress needs to
enforce resources in the cornerstone of our public safety
system to help law enforcement prevent the trafficking that is
enabling this violence.
The responsibility of this crisis rests with the General
Assembly and the U.S. Congress, who have the ability and
responsibility to address the firearms used in violent crimes.
You must continue funding for effective community-based
programs that help prevent shootings and retaliations and
strengthen gun safety laws to keep firearms from individuals
intent on doing harm, show gun trafficking, and support law
enforcement efforts to address it. It will save even more
lives. Thank you.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Garber follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chair Jordan. Thank you. Mr. Gerace.
STATEMENT OF NICK GERACE
Mr. Gerace. Good morning ladies and gentlemen, and thre
Committee Members. Today, I would like to draw your attention
to the failures of District Attorney Larry Krasner, or as we
know him, ``Let 'em Go'' Larry Krasner, in Philadelphia. Over
the past few years, Krasner's radical progressive policies have
had devastating consequences, leading to a rise in violent
crime and endangering the lives of innocent citizens.
One of the most concerning aspects of Krasner's tenure is
his approach to criminal justice, which has resulted in the
release of violent inmates who have gone on to commit heinous
crimes, crimes that we have heard today. He prioritizes the
pursuit of his ideological agenda over public safety. ``Let 'em
Go Larry'' has put the lives of Philadelphia residents at risk,
or Uncle Larry as the criminal underground in Philadelphia
refers to him, so lovingly. The tragic fact is that multiple
individuals have lost their lives due to the dangerous
individuals he has allowed back into the community.
Moreover, the city of Philadelphia has experienced a
significant increase in violent crime under Krasner's failed
leadership. Over the past 6 years, the city has seen a
troubling surge in homicides, shootings, and violent offenses.
This alarming trend is a direct result of Krasner's misguided
policies that have failed to effectively address and deter
criminal activity.
Philadelphia has been significantly affected by the
increase in violent crime under District Attorney Larry
Krasner's policies. The rise in violent crime has had several
consequences for the city and its residents, including:
Loss of lives. As was mentioned earlier today, this year we
are down about a dozen homicides. Twelve bodies, I say, would
be a lot. It is a good increase, right. I think we could all
agree on that. So, what is it to be said when one person has
murdered more than 12 people? One person is the result of the
death of the murder of more than 12 people. I don't have the
exact numbers, but it is a lot more than 12 people. Because of
Larry Krasner, more than 12 people are dead today, and there
are some of them, their family members are talking on this
panel right now. One is too much. One is too much. He is a
serial killer by proxy. It is his policies that are killing the
residents of Philadelphia. The increase in violent crime,
particularly homicides and shootings, has resulted in a tragic
loss of lives in Philadelphia. This loss of life has a
devastating impact on families and communities, causing immense
grief and trauma, which we have all witnessed here today.
Fear and insecurity. The rise in violent crime has created
a climate of fear and insecurity among Philadelphia residents.
People are concerned about their safety and the safety of their
loved ones, which can lead to a decrease in community trust and
engagement. I encourage everybody up on the Committee board,
walk around Philadelphia for yourself and talk to
Philadelphians. Pick them by will and you will hear these
sentiments by all of them. It doesn't matter what race, creed,
color, or background. You will hear these sentiments.
Disruption of daily life. The prevalence of violent crime
can disrupt the daily lives of Philadelphia residents. It may
discourage people from going out at night, limit their
participation in community activities, and affect the vitality
of public spaces.
Economic impact. I would say he had a more devastating
impact to Philadelphia than COVID has. The increase in violent
crime can have an economic impact on Philadelphia. Businesses
may be hesitant to invest or expand in areas with high crime
rates, and tourism may decline due to safety concerns. This can
result in a loss of job opportunities and economic growth for
the city, not just in violent areas. Go downtown Philadelphia,
the pearl of the city. Go look at all the businesses that are
boarded up. That is a direct link to Larry Krasner and the
crime that is going on. During the riots, 2,000 protesters were
arrested, and with a wave of his scepter he got rid of those
prosecutions. They were all gone.
Do you know who got prosecuted, though? The Philadelphia
Police Department. Went after Lieutenant Joe Bologna, one of
the most respected officers in the Police Department for a
lawful arrest that he was committing. He dragged that man
through the mud, and every time he went to court he got laughed
out of court and thrown away, and his district attorneys were
reprimanded, because it is a joke. If it wasn't so serious it
would be a joke.
Strained community relations. The rise in violent crime can
strain relations between different communities within
Philadelphia. It can lead to increased tension and mistrust
among residents, making it harder to build strong and cohesive
communities.
It is deeply concerning that Krasner harbors a very strong
animosity--and I would say severe hatred toward the
Philadelphia Police Department. His personal vendetta against
the police has created a hostile environment and hindered the
collaborative efforts needed to maintain law and order. By
undermining the very institution responsible for protecting our
communities, Krasner has compromised the safety of Philadelphia
residents and hindered the police's ability to effectively
carry out their duties.
In conclusion, District Attorney Larry Krasner's radical
progressive policies have proven to be a disastrous failure for
the city of Philadelphia. His ill-conceived approach to
criminal justice has resulted in the release of violent
offenders, leading to tragic consequences for innocent
citizens, and our police officers and law enforcement
community. The alarming increase in violent crime over the past
six years is a testament to his failed leadership. Furthermore,
Krasner's antagonistic stance toward the Philadelphia Police
Department has only further exacerbated the challenges faced by
law enforcement in keeping our communities safe.
Thank you.
[Prepared statement of Mr. Gerace follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chair Jordan. Thank you. We will now proceed with questions
under the five-minute rule. The Chair recognizes the Chair of
the Subcommittee on Crime of the Judiciary Committee, the
gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Biggs.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all the
witnesses for being here today, for your poignant testimony,
and we appreciate you coming out and testifying.
I am going to just kind of go with some questions that came
to my mind as I was listening to your testimony, and I want to
just make this statement here. The health inspector analogy
really does not work well for you, because the health inspector
goes in and finds a lot of violations, and then turns around
and walks out. Guess what you have? You have got more food
poisonings, more illness that comes, and that seems to be what
is happening here.
So I will talk with you, Dr. Fitzgerald, first. Is that
what is happening here? If you analogize that, if Larry Krasner
is analogized to the health inspector, is he letting people go?
Is he letting these violations go, which is resulting in more
problems for the city, more crime in the city?
Dr. Fitzgerald. In my belief that is a correct assessment.
When a district attorney fires tenured attorneys in his office,
which is their prerogative. He is an elected district attorney
and he can hire and fire whoever he would like. However, he
lost intellectual capital within the District Attorney's Office
and the ability to therefore put the best cases together and
prosecute offenders that deserve prosecution. Rookie district
attorneys are now plea bargaining cases down, and that is
affecting everyone in Philadelphia. So yes, it is analogous to
a pest inspector who fails to perform their duties and allows,
in essence, the city to be infested.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Mr. Bochetto, when we talk about the
criminal justice system there are reasons that you prosecute
individuals. They include specific deterrence, general
deterrence, restitution, the society's need for retribution and
justice. The policies that you wanted to talk about with regard
to Larry Krasner, please tell us, do they further specific
deterrence when he is letting people out on cashless bail?
Mr. Bochetto. Quite the opposite. Larry Krasner's policies
have literally been a license to commit further crimes, further
lawlessness, and further terrorize the citizens of
Philadelphia.
I couldn't help but note that your question about the
health examiner walking into a restaurant and not prosecuting
or enforcing a regulation that concerns the safety of its
patrons. That is exactly what is going on with Larry Krasner.
How do you let people walk into store, steal hundreds of
dollars' worth of merchandise, oftentimes from a single owner
bodega or that type of thing, how do you let them walk in,
steal things, and walk out scot-free? That is lawlessness. It
is craziness. It is emboldening these criminals to be more and
more violent and more and more aggressive against our
citizenry.
I want to say, hopefully help is on the way. We have a new
mayor in Philadelphia. Her name is Cherelle Parker. She is
extremely capable and street smart, and she has avowed not to
put up with this kind of craziness.
The problem is that she cannot control what Larry Krasner
prosecutes, or fails to prosecute, and unfortunately, no matter
how much a mayor wants to pitch in, to the extent that we have
a district attorney who issues memos to his line DAs, you will
not prosecute this crime--we have it in writing; there are
memos--it is an outrage.
Mr. Biggs. So, Ms. and Dr. Fitzgerald, whoever wants to
take this question, there are standards that govern the death
penalty cases in Pennsylvania, and if you file your petition
requesting a death penalty, you present those aggravating
factors to a jury, they are the ones to make the determination
on death penalty.
What has been the process that you have engaged in with
regard to the death penalty application, and what is Mr.
Krasner and his team, how have they responded to your efforts
and the process you have gone through?
Dr. Fitzgerald. So, in this process, sir--and thank you for
the question--the office, after our petitioning the office to
discuss with us what their intent was to pursue either the
death penalty or not to, in our son's case, they invited us in
to make our own case, basically.
Mr. Biggs. Is that normal?
Dr. Fitzgerald. No, that is not normal. The first question
that we asked the Committee, the Death Penalty Review
Committee, which is used by many other district attorneys
across not only this commonwealth but across the country.
Having come from Philadelphia, been born and raised here, come
up through the city of Philadelphia Police Department, we are
aware that he has not used this process before. He has
summarily dismissed the fact that he wanted to, or that he
would ever pursue the death penalty.
In our case we were afforded the opportunity, if you would
put it that way, to present before this Committee. We did so.
We presented our own aggravators. We even attacked the
potential mitigators. Thankfully, my wife has worked homicides
for years, and just in the Tarrant County District Attorney's
Office she was a homicide investigator there. Being a chief of
police and investigator, we were able to detach ourselves
somewhat, if you will, from what happened with our son.
No family should ever have to lobby. No family should have
to be made to be felt as if we didn't do a good enough job
before this Committee we wouldn't get justice. It is
ridiculous. I would submit again that one of the biggest
impediments to criminal justice can be district attorneys. I
spoke with Mr. Jordan earlier and I talked about the preamble
you had in your last report, and it talked about attorneys. It
talked about attorneys being able to go after people and to get
them. They have that same ability to total dismiss what the
public wants and just go after what they want. In this case the
clear want is to do away with the death penalty and to ensure
that our son doesn't get justice.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Chair, I have several unanimous consents, if
I can present.
Chair Jordan. Gentleman.
Mr. Biggs. Yes. I present the certified copy of the Fiscal
Year 2021, where the $33 million was removed from the police.
Then, I have an article entitled, ``Remembering
Philadelphia Police Sergeant James O'Connor, Killed in the Line
of Duty One Year Ago,'' from Saturday, March 13, 2021.
Also, an article entitled, ``Make Sure Justice is Served.
Slain Temple Police Sergeant's Family Calls for Death Penalty
for Suspect,'' dated January 23, 2024.
Chair Jordan. Without objection.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chair Jordan. Thank you. The Chair recognizes the Ranking
Member for five minutes.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. and Ms. Fitzgerald,
thank you for sharing the story of your son's life and his
service to the community. In addition to being a member of the
Temple University Police Department, where he worked to keep
college students and the university community safe, your son
was also a father of five and an active member of Swagga House
Run Club and Black Men Run Philadelphia, which both organize
group runs through Philadelphia to raise awareness around gun
violence.
I appreciate you being here, and I offer you my deepest
sympathies for your loss.
I must say that the people of Philadelphia do not appear to
share your opinion and that of Mr. Gerace and Mr. Bochetto of
District Attorney Krasner, since they reelected him.
Mr. Garber, the civil suit against the teenager who shot
and killed Sergeant Fitzgerald alleges that the killer suffered
from mental instability, a propensity for violence, and a
strong interest in possessing and using firearms. It also
alleges that he showed signs, again and again, that he
presented a high risk of harm to himself and others.
Mr. Garber, how could the Federal Extreme Risk Protection
Order Act, a Federal Red Lag Law, or H.B. 1028, a similar
Pennsylvania measure, have prevent this shooter or others like
him from accessing firearms, potentially saving the life of
people like Sergeant Christopher Fitzgerald?
Mr. Garber. Thank you. Extreme protection orders are
designed to help give family members who understand someone is
in crisis, or law enforcement, an opportunity to temporarily
remove the firearm, and because firearms are so fatal when
used, as we have heard today, unfortunately, removing us gives
us time to get the person get help. So, there may be real
evidence in that case that if extreme risk protection orders
existed here in Pennsylvania, either through State or national
law, that it could have prevented the shooting.
It is also, though, worth noting that as I understand it,
the shooter being under 21, could not purchase the firearm on
his own, and I am unaware of exactly where the firearm came
from in these cases, and so we should also look at that
question, as well.
Mr. Nadler. Mr. Garber, last Congress, under Democratic
control, this Committee led the passage of the Federal Extreme
Risk Protection Order Act in the House. Last year, also under
Democratic Control, the Pennsylvania House passed their Red
Flag Llaw. Both bills passed their respective chambers with
overwhelming support from Democrats and the support of some
Republicans, but neither became law.
What is your response to the lawmakers across the country
who have voted against or criticized extreme risk protection
orders?
Mr. Garber. I think these lawmakers are out of touch with
their constituents, frankly. The only place gun safety laws,
like extreme risk protection orders, are partisan is in the
Capitol buildings. In Pennsylvania, polling shows over 80
percent of Pennsylvanians support Red Fag Laws, and that
includes people of all persuasions. It includes gun owners. It
includes conservatives, self-identified conservatives, and
Republicans.
We need tools like this because when someone is in crisis,
when they can get their hands on a gun, it puts everyone else
at risk.
Mr. Nadler. Mr. Garber, what does the research show about
the rates of gun deaths in jurisdictions that have passed Red
Flag Laws?
Mr. Garber. The rates are lower when you have an extreme
risk protection order and other gun safety laws on the books.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Garber, are you aware of cases
where people have spent 10-30 years in prison for crimes of
which they were ultimately exonerated?
Mr. Garber. It is not--I am sure that is the case, but I am
not aware. It is not something I study deeply.
Mr. Nadler. Are you aware of the case in New York in which
five Black youths were convicted of raping a jogger in Central
Park in 1989, and spent years in jail--
Mr. Garber. Yes.
Mr. Nadler. --in which Mr. Trump, as he was then, demanded
the death penalty, and which they were subsequently exonerated?
Mr. Garber. I am familiar with that. I am familiar with the
generalities of the case.
Mr. Nadler. Do you think that death penalty laws give the
risk of innocent people ever being executed?
Mr. Garber. CeaseFirePA does not have a position overall on
the death penalty in these cases. We look at gun safety laws
that can prevent the victims from being created in the first
place.
Mr. Garber. Thank you very much. I yield back.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. Mr. Gerace, about
a year ago the Governor of Arkansas, Sarah Huckabee Sanders,
said that the divide in America today is ``normal and crazy.''
You can go down the list of crazy policies the left now has.
Like it is crazy to have an open border.
Mr. Gerace. Correct.
Chair Jordan. In the context we are talking about today,
some of the crazy policies--is it crazy to defund the police?
Mr. Gerace. One hundred percent.
Chair Jordan. Crazy. That makes no sense, right? Is it
crazy not to say bad guys who violate the law should be
prosecuted, let them go free. Is that crazy?
Mr. Gerace. Say that again? I am sorry.
Chair Jordan. When you have a district attorney who doesn't
prosecute the bad guys that is crazy, right?
Mr. Gerace. Yes, that is crazy.
Chair Jordan. Not following the law. Here is the problem.
Craziness has consequences. How short is the Philadelphia
Police Department today in police officers?
Mr. Gerace. So, we just, I believe yesterday, got rid of
our Sixth Police District, which covered center city, so now
they combined with the Ninth District because of lack of
manpower. The Eighth District is geographically gigantic. It
could take, from one corner to the other, almost 20-25 minutes,
lights and sirens, meaning pedestrians get out of the way, cars
are supposed to pull over.
Chair Jordan. Is there a number short? Are you hundreds of
officers short?
Mr. Gerace. Thousands.
Chair Jordan. Thousands of officers short?
Mr. Gerace. Thousands. So, in the Eighth District there
will be times where there are two radio cars and maybe a wagon
to cover an area that's--
Chair Jordan. So, there is a consequence that you don't
have enough police officers to do the job, and when you defund
the police and you don't prosecute the bad guys.
Mr. Gerace. Correct.
Chair Jordan. The real consequences are what happened to
the Fitzgerald family, to Marissa, who lost a husband, to Ms.
O'Connor. Those are the real consequences, right?
Mr. Gerace. Yes.
Chair Jordan. Yes. I thought Dr. Fitzgerald said something
really insight. He said a lot of insightful things, but one of
the things that stuck out to me was he said, ``Criminals aren't
stupid. They're just bad.'' They know the fact that you are
thousands of officers short.
Mr. Gerace. Absolutely.
Chair Jordan. They know that if they do something wrong
that this--what did you call him, ``Let 'em Go Larry.''
Mr. Gerace. That is correct. ``Let 'em Go Larry.''
Chair Jordan. ``Let 'em Go Larry'' is going to let them go,
right?
Mr. Gerace. Yes.
Chair Jordan. They know all that because they are not
stupid. They are just bad guys. Bad guys need to be prosecuted,
and in to catch the bad guys you need officers on the street.
Right now, Philadelphia is lacking in both. They don't have
enough officers on the street, and they don't have a prosecutor
who will go after the bad guys, if the officers who are on the
street can actually catch them.
Mr. Gerace. Correct.
Chair Jordan. That is the situation.
Mr. Gerace. Yes. Do you want the honest truth of what is
going on?
Chair Jordan. Sure do.
Mr. Gerace. Police officers are afraid to do their job
because Krasner is looking to hang every one of them.
Chair Jordan. You got to the next point. The next point is,
and if they go out there and do their job, they are afraid that
the press is going to come after them, or maybe worse yet, Mr.
Krasner--who was the officer that was your friend, one of your
colleagues that you worked with in the police, who Mr. Krasner
took to court? What was his name?
Mr. Gerace. Joe Bologna.
Chair Jordan. Joe Bologna, right?
Mr. Gerace. Absolutely. There was nothing wrong with that
arrest.
Chair Jordan. It goes back to what the good Governor of
Arkansas said--it is just all craziness. It is just crazy to do
it that way.
I have got two minutes left. I want to go to Dr. Fitzgerald
because I know you wanted to respond to something Mr. Nadler
said, and then I want to yield any other time to our Chair of
the Crime Committee.
Dr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I wanted to respond
by saying the objective here is not to invalidate or validate,
let's say, for our family's purposes, the death penalty. We
will stand up with anyone who is unfairly prosecuted and
unfairly sentenced because of bad policing. What we have here
is bad prosecutorial actions or inaction. We won't stand for
that.
So, we have rules, rules for a reason, laws for a reason.
When our district attorney selectively, if not even
prejudicially, all right, determines what it is that he will
and will not prosecute, I go back to what you said, Mr. Chair,
criminals aren't dumb. They are not stupid, referring to what I
talked about earlier. They know that when they run in the
stores en masse in downtown Philadelphia, or anywhere in this
country, and they run out with hundreds, or even thousands at
times, of dollars' worth of products, they will not be
prosecuted. If we want to be honest, being honest means talking
to real Philadelphians, getting on the street, doing what Mr.
Krasner and his pundits said yesterday, just yesterday, and
let's get some real statistics, well, let's get some real
statistics and see what real Philadelphians think.
Chair Jordan. I yield to the gentleman.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to ask, I
think, Mr. Bochetto about this. When the district attorney
doesn't prosecute, the public itself--we have talked about
police, we have talked about specific victims of crime, but the
public gets a malaise of hopelessness and helplessness. Do they
continue to call police then when someone busts into their
bodega and starts ripping them off?
Mr. Bochetto. You put your finger right on the problem. The
demoralization of the Police Department, and the demoralization
of the general public is stark.
I want to give you one example, Congressman, that I think
typifies this. I was involved in the Columbus statue litigation
in Marconi Plaza in South Philadelphia. It is a beautiful
little plaza and a park right on Broad Street. I was sitting
there with numerous Philadelphia police officers, and a gang of
30 ATVs and dirt bikes and no mufflers came roaring down the
street, unmistakable. It was just as abrupt an interruption of
a community's life as you can have.
I turned to the police officer, and I said, ``Didn't we
used to prevent that kind of outrageous lawlessness on the
street?'' He said, ``Yes, we used to. Not anymore. Do you think
I'm going to go arrest one of those folks and have Larry
Krasner breathing down my neck?'' That is a direct example. I
was right there. I was an eyewitness. Congressman, that is
exactly what is demoralizing our community from the point of
view of being able to rely on the government to keep safety
alive.
Chair Jordan. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. The
gentlelady from Pennsylvania is recognized.
Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would have been
delighted to welcome the Judiciary Committee to Philadelphia
for a thoughtful and honest discussion about how violent crime
has dramatically declined in Philadelphia in recent years, the
challenges our city continues to face, and how the Federal
Government can help. That is not what is happening here today.
Chair Jordan has not convened the House Judiciary Committee
in the city of Brotherly Love and Sisterly Affection to explore
how Congress can help to reduce violent crime in Philadelphia
or anywhere else. Instead, he has brought his traveling circus
to town to divide Americans, scare voters, influence elections,
and distract from the crushing failure of the House Majority to
govern in this Congress.
Chair Jordan wants to convince people that gun violence is
a Philadelphia problem, but the truth is gun violence is an
American problem, that is traumatizing families in every corner
of every community across this great land.
So, let's start by making three things clear.
(1) Contrary to the statistics cited by the Chair, violent
crime in Philadelphia has decreased dramatically in recent
years.
(2) Our entire country continues to face a daily epidemic
of gun violence.
(3) That senseless violence is not inevitable. It is
enabled by lawmakers who choose to sow chaos with political
stunts like this hearing instead of doing their damn jobs.
What makes today's sham hearing even more offensive is that
while our Republican colleagues are trying to score political
points here, off the pain of families who have suffered
grievous losses, they are simultaneously blocking votes on
bills that would prevent gun violence, in Philadelphia and
across the country, by keeping weapons out of dangerous hands
and off our neighborhood streets. We all know too many people
who have been scarred by gun violence, who have lost loved
ones, neighbors, and friends, and who are crying out for action
to address this public health crisis. Our Republican colleagues
are deaf to those cries.
We are seeing work on the ground across the Philadelphia
region that offers hope. New violence intervention programs are
showing progress. Homicides in Philadelphia this year to date
are down 35 percent from last year, and down 16 percent from
five years ago. Police statistics show that violent crime is at
its lowest levels her in more than two decades.
There is still so much more work to do. Americans are
demanding action, and American voters, our children deserve to
know where their representatives stand on the common-sense
solutions to stop this carnage. Democrats have introduced bills
that would close background check loopholes, that would
implement Red Flag Laws, promote the safe storage of firearms,
and ban assault weapons and ghost guns. Our colleagues refuse
to join us in demanding votes on those bills.
Philadelphians and all Americans deserve a Congress that
does its job and passes legislative solutions, not a Congress
that spends all its time mired in political sideshows and
dysfunction. Our country has serious issues that demand serious
solutions, not cynical political circuses like this hearing.
Philadelphia deserves better and America deserves better.
Now, I have direct stake in this subject. Two and a half
years ago I was carjacked at gunpoint by three teenagers, using
a firearm they brought from out of State. Obviously, it was
scary to have a gun pointed at my chest. As I looked down the
barrel of that gun my mind raced, thinking about all the ways
Congress could have prevented that encounter, by closing
loopholes to keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't
have them, including kids, by giving ATF the funding that it
needs to enforce gun trafficking laws, and by addressing the
poverty, trauma, and social conditions that led those kids to
pick up a gun in the first place.
It also occurred to me that the gun pointed at my chest
could have been a ghost gun, and I heard a snicker. Yes, your
mind does race in funny ways when you are facing a gun.
So, Mr. Garber, could you talk about how ghost guns, these
untraceable, unregulated firearms that can be bought and sold
without a background check, contribute to gun violence here in
Philadelphia, and why we need legislation to address this
threat?
Mr. Garber. We saw a 410 percent increase in the recovered
number of ghost guns just in Philadelphia. The thing is, when
we are talking about people with criminal records, they may not
be able to walk into a licensed dealer and buy a gun, but they
can order a ghost gun kit online, and in a little amount of
time have a gun in their home that they can use in these
violent crimes.
So, it is a massive gap in our safety system that we have
to close.
Ms. Scanlon. Pennsylvania recently passed bipartisan
legislation through one house to address this issue. Correct?
Mr. Garber. Correct.
Ms. Scanlon. OK. Dr. Abaya, you work with young people here
in Philadelphia. Can you talk about why it is important to
address the toll of gun violence with our youth?
Dr. Abaya. Absolutely. So, one of the things that we know
about gun violence is that the trauma that is sustained early
in life has implications for the duration of life. We also know
that, as I had mentioned in my technologies, when gun violence
occurs, those who are in immediately proximity have long-term
mental health needs, and that trauma, in and of itself, can
contribute to future involvement in and an exposure to
violence.
So, it is a very important preventative measure to identify
and intervene on violence for youth, and that is violence
within a community, so not just the individual but they
community in which they live.
Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I appreciate that. I see my time
has expired, although not by as much as some of our other
Members, so I will yield back.
Chair Jordan. I am trying to be lenient. The gentlelady
yields back. The gentleman from Florida is recognized.
Mr. Gaetz. When Philadelphia was coined the City of
Brotherly Love, I don't think Cain and Abel were the brothers
they were referring to. It seems, if you look at the major
crimes in this fair city, they are increasing. The latest Pew
Report indicates that the number of major crimes, which is the
combined tally of violent crime and property crime, has now
reached a 20-year high.
I was deeply moved by the testimony of Ms. O'Connor, Ms.
Fitzgerald, and Dr. Fitzgerald, and I was stricken, and a bit
insulted, that my previous colleague made mention of this as a
circus, as you are here to hopefully lend greater understanding
to policymakers about how to make death and violence less
likely.
Ms. Fitzgerald, your testimony almost brought Mr. Biggs and
I to tears. We are sympathetic criers. What was it like hearing
Ms. Scanlon describe this as a circus?
Ms. Fitzgerald. We certainly aren't circus animals. We are
people. I am born and raised in this city. My entire family is
here, and this city is suffering.
Mr. Gaetz. How did you feel, Dr. Fitzgerald?
Dr. Fitzgerald. I just met this morning, Ms. Scanlon,
however, and with all due respect, we aren't circus animals. My
wife, my daughter-in-law are here because we have suffered
tremendous pain, as you suffered when you were carjacked. I
remember reading that article. So, I keep very much in tune
with what is going on here in the city. We have generations of
Fitzgeralds, Moreros that give back to this city. Her brother-
in-law commutes back and forth from the county into the city,
into the poorest section of this city, to give out food to--
Ms. Fitzgerald. My brother.
Dr. Fitzgerald. I am sorry, your brother. Excuse me.
My point being we have a vested interest and care, and we
wouldn't be used as circus animals. We are telling a story, and
we are smart enough, and intent enough to communicate properly
and share what we feel, and what our family feels. Again, we
did not move here. We are born and raised here. We still have
tremendous connections with this city. So, we get feedback. It
goes back to--
Mr. Gaetz. Well, Dr. Fitzgerald, if you don't mind I want
to zero in because I was looking at really the election contest
for Mr. Krasner, who everyone here, or most folks here seem to
have some objection with, and he won overwhelmingly, and he
said in his victory speech,
In Philadelphia this is a movement that has been led by Black
and Brown and broke people and progressives. If you're Black or
Brown or broke, you better be progressive because there isn't
much of an alternative.
It seems to me that living would be an alternative, right?
Dr. Fitzgerald. Living is an alternative that is the
reality for folks that live in communities like I grew up in,
in West Philadelphia, or in East Division, where my wife grew
up. These are the neighborhoods that are the poorest. These are
the neighborhoods that have most of the gun violence within the
city, and these are the ones that no one surveys and no one
talks to, that perhaps one or two representatives from those
ends of the communities speak, and they don't necessarily speak
for the people on the ground.
Mr. Gaetz. Well, I also want to zoom out a little bit,
because Mr. Krasner made a remarkable admission in his election
victory speech. He said,
This is about a movement of progressive prosecutors who have
taken office around the country. It is not about us as
individuals.
So, Ms. O'Connor, I wanted to give you a chance to react to
that, that this dynamic, this soft-on-crime progressivism, it
is not just an isolated circumstance in one area, but the DAs
who are doing these policies, they actually see themselves as
part of a broader movement to impact the whole country this
way. What is your reaction to that.
Ms. O'Connor. I am going to try to keep it nice. I think
people are delusional. There is no one here in this room that
can come at me with any of the facts about Jim's job. These
guys are all lengthy past criminals. How can somebody not
understand what is going on. My husband could still be here
today if these men were prosecuted the way they should have
been and been behind bars. These guys have, combined, 8-10
murders underneath them. It is insane. They have been let out,
and they know that.
When people are killed in Philadelphia, people just can't
wait to see the rap sheet of the person that did the shooting,
and how many times they have been let out. It is ridiculous. My
son is a police officer. Again, he has locked someone up who
has laughed in his face and said, ``I will be out in a few
hours.'' He was right.
Our district attorney, oh my God, my son was in the Police
Academy and this man came up to him as he was standing around
the hero wall, and he said, ``How are you doing there, sir?''
My son looked at him like, are you crazy. He said, ``How am I
doing? That's my father on the wall right there.'' Larry
couldn't even look at him. He just turned away.
The policy, everything, is totally out of control, and
people that respect this man or want to vote for him, let it
happen to your family and then you will see about how you feel
about everybody walking free and what goes on in this city. I
see what the police officers go through. They are scared to do
their job. You have nobody going into the Academy. Why would
they? He is looking to prosecute the police more than keep
people in jail, where they should be. It is ridiculous.
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, I see my time has expired, but I just
wanted to thank all the witnesses, and certainly express my
appreciation for the hearing, and my understanding that this is
no circus. This is very serious endeavor that is life or death.
I yield back.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. The Chair
recognizes the gentlelady from Pennsylvania.
Ms. Dean. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield Ms. Scanlon a
bit of time, and then I will get to my questions.
Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I just wanted to clarify for our
witnesses, and of course Mr. Gaetz knows better, that I was not
referring to the witnesses whose pain is very real, and we
really appreciate their testimony here and their effort to try
to make the city a better place. I was referring to the actions
of our colleagues as being circus-like, and on trading on the
pain of other people. So, thank you, Ms. Dean. I yield back to
you.
Ms. Dean. Thank you. It seems to me that we have two
hearings going on here. What you have suffered, the folks in
this room, the O'Connor family, the Fitzgerald family, there is
nothing we can say that will heal your pain, and we know that.
I hope you know that as serious legislators, as somebody who
has wanted to do something about gun violence, when I was a
professor at LaSalle University, when I was a young mother to
three children, taking my kids to the Million Mom March 24
years ago, some of us are very serious and intentional about
wanting to do something.
So, you might see some frustration in us. This very
Committee held a hearing to defund the ATF. Is that the right
direction for this country to go, to defund an important law
enforcement agency that helps trace back where these criminals
are getting the guns? That is why it is a little frustrating
here.
So, again, your losses, we feel very, very deeply. I can't
imagine. As a professor at LaSalle University, as I said, I
wasn't elected to anything. I had an adult woman in my night
class who talked a lot. We would meet in conference about her
writing. We talked a lot about her precious 15-year-old sons,
twins. Then the next semester I read in the newspaper of one of
the 16-year-old being shot and killed, based on a gripe, some
gripe among 16-year-olds with guns.
Let's get serious about how do we get these guns out of
people's hands. As Federal legislators, what can we do to make
a difference, to get illegal guns off the street, to get guns
out of the hands of folks who are prohibited purchasers because
they are unsafe, they are unwell. Let's get serious about that.
So, Dr. Abaya, I want to start with you. You have recited
what we know to be an extraordinarily shameful American
statistic. Children in this country are more likely to die of
gun violence than any other cause. I don't know another nation
that wears that badge of shame. That is the United States. That
is not just Philadelphia, folks. That is the United States.
You are in the trenches. You are dealing with families who
are dealing with these incredible losses. What are the most
effective things we can do? You have cited the statistics. In
Philadelphia, unlike what some of my colleagues said, crime
down 38.28 percent--excuse me, homicide rate down 22 percent.
Let's just stick with the gun violence. What are the
effective things going on in this city, regardless of the
Krasner argument that is going on, what is going on that is
effective and is bringing down this rate?
Dr. Abaya. Thank you so much for that question. So a public
health approach to addressing this issue really consists of
identifying modifiable risk factors in community. This is
something that has worked with a myriad of diseases, that have
had successful public health interventions over the years. What
are the modifiable risk factors that can be intervened on
within community? These start with the individual but also
involve the entire community, even the built environment. Right
here in Philadelphia, some of the most seminal studies have
been done that demonstrate the impact of these strategies.
So, I mentioned CVI. These are strategies that identify
people who are at highest risk of near-term violence with an
aggressive case management plan. These people are engaged by
someone that they trust, someone who can pull them from the
cycle of violence, for a period of a minimum of months. This is
not a short-term engagement. It is not a Band-Aid. It is a way
to significantly alter a person's life course forever.
What we really want for community safety is for people to
not enter into violent situations and then be withdrawn, and
then enter and withdraw, and we have seen that. In our homicide
review cases and also at the Health Department we saw those
cycles of continued exposure, repeat injury, over and over
again. Interventions that intervene when we recognize those
modifiable risk factors and transform them, address them,
sustainably, by providing, for example, employment, where
someone has an actual place to go day to day, cognitive
behavioral therapy and other types of mental health
interventions. Those strategies are known to be effective.
There are other things that have been studied in the city
of Philadelphia such as changes to the built environment. As I
mentioned, greening, which had a measurable impact on reducing
violence in the areas that were transformed. This is community
transformation that has impacts actually beyond gun violence.
So, I think the thread of hope here is that there are
interventions that are proven. There is promising research
being conducted every day, and there is a lot to invest in that
could really change lives.
Ms. Dean. Thank you for your work on this, what is a public
health crisis. We have another public health crisis going on,
which is addiction. So, I invite the Chair to please come, take
a look at what is going on in Kensington, if you want to be
serious about doing anything around addiction and mental
health.
I will end with Mr. Garber. That is a public health
approach. What have you been doing at the State level that has
been successful with the Democratic House that we should take
to the Federal level?
Mr. Garber. I think we have found ways to find common
ground. Right now we are really focused on firearm trafficking
especially. I was talking to a detective in Montgomery County
yesterday about how lapses and slowness in the electronic
records of sales system, which is our State public background
check system, is impacting their ability to identify
traffickers before someone loses their life. So, we are working
with Republicans and Democrats on legislation to address that.
Already in the last year we have had three bills the
Extreme Risk Protection Order bill, Ghost Gun Ban, and
Universal Background Check bill. The background check bill is
really important for Congress to look at, because in
Pennsylvania, while we have an extremely strong State-based
background check law, we see guns travel up from my home State
of Georgia, from the South, up the Iron Pipeline, right into
Philadelphia, and cause this violence.
Ms. Dean. I thank you, and I thank you, Mr. Chair. I will
yield back.
Oh, excuse me. I do have a unanimous request consent.
Chair Jordan. Recognized.
Ms. Dean. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record
the Philadelphia Police Department Major Crimes Report
citywide, 2024, because I really want to correct the record.
Mr. Gaetz had statistics from some other era. So, I ask
unanimous consent to put this in to show that homicide is down
38.28 percent.
Chair Jordan. Without objection.
Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman
from Virginia--
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, can I be recognized for a unanimous
consent?
Chair Jordan. Sure.
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, I am seeking to enter into the record
the 2023 Pew Report that indicated that major crimes were at a
20-year high, which combines violent crime and property crime.
Chair Jordan. Without objection.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman from Virginia is recognized.
Ms. Scanlon. Mr. Chair? If we are doing unanimous consent I
have a couple, as well.
Chair Jordan. The gentlelady from Pennsylvania is
recognized.
Ms. Scanlon. There is January 18, 2024, article from the
Philadelphia Inquirer by the Director of the National Institute
for Criminal Justice Reform entitled, ``How Philadelphia
Reduced Gun Violence in 2023.''
Also, an April 30th article from NBC-10 Philadelphia
titled, ``Philly Leaders Encouraged by Drop in Homicides So Far
This Year.''
Also, an April 12th article from Fox 29 Philadelphia
titled, ``Carjacking Significantly Declined in Two Years,
Philadelphia Carjacking Task Force Reports.''
An April 15th article from WHYY titled, ``Philly DA Sets Up
New Unit Focusing on Repeat Gun Offenders.''
Finally, an April 16th article from Axios titled ``Number
of Homicides Plummets in Major U.S. Cities,'' nothing that
Philadelphia is currently experiencing a 37 percent decline in
murders.
Chair Jordan. Without objection.
Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. Gaetz. Mr. Chair, this will be my last, Mr. Chair. I
have an additional consent request.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Gaetz. The article titled ``George Soros Prosecutors
Wage War on Law and Order,'' heritage.org.
The article titled ``Philadelphia Soros-Funded District
Attorney Deceived Court to Get Murderer Off Death Row,'' from
the Washington Examiner.
The article titled ``George Soros' Bad Debt on Progression
DAs,'' from the Philadelphia Citizen.
Chair Jordan. Without objection.
While we are keeping Mr. Cline waiting, you have all been
here for a couple of hours. If you need a break just let us
know, and we can certainly have a chance for a break.
Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair?
Chair Jordan. Yes.
Mr. Nadler. I just want to say that with all the
antisemitism we are seeing, we are seeing antisemitism using
George Soros again, it is disgusting.
Mr. Gaetz. Point of privilege. Mr. Ranking Member, not
every criticism of George Soros is antisemitic. The criticisms
deal with public policy and the matters of rising crime with
DAs. I don't know anything about Mr. Soros' faith. I yield
back.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
The gentleman from Virginia is now recognized for five
minutes.
Mr. Cline. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to thank our
witnesses, in particular the Fitzgeralds and Ms. O'Connor, for
being here. Your stories are tragic, and we share your grief.
I love the city of Philadelphia. I love to come here and
visit. The history is amazing, and my kids love it. We came up
here and got to tour around. We tried to go to a pizza place up
in Callowhill, crossed under the Convention Center, and that
was a wrong turn because we saw some tragic individuals
underneath that tunnel. We want to come back here. I told my
kids I was coming up here for a hearing, and they looked and
said, ``Daddy, don't go back to the Convention Center,''
because they remember what they saw here.
So, there is greatness in your city but there is also
crisis in your city, and the crisis comes as a result of the
budget that Mr. Biggs put in the record, which, in 2021, I am
just going to read it,
To address fiscal challenges and issues with equity in law
enforcement, the Philadelphia Police Department's budget was
reduced by $33 million.
That had a real impact.
When Chair Jordan asked how short on officers are they,
well, I got on Google, and it says in a force of 6,500 at the
beginning of this year they were short about 1,000, and over
100 retired on January 1st of this year. Over the next two
years another 600 are scheduled to retire. There is a crisis in
confidence among law enforcement, and that is having a real
impact on crime in Philadelphia. Over the last year, property
crimes, including retail theft and carjackings, have risen by
more than 15 percent. Retail theft has increased by almost 28
percent, while vehicle thefts have skyrocketed by 72 percent.
That comes from the district attorney that refuses to
prosecute.
Ms. O'Connor, I wanted to ask you, in particular, about
when you mentioned in your testimony about the four men
involved in your husband's shooting, at least two had prior
convictions for violent crimes, including murder, and at least
two had lenient sentences and were out on bail or parole. Can
you just go into detail a little bit on that and what that does
to crime in the city?
Ms. O'Connor. Again, I wish I had the time to go through
and pull up all four of their prior arrests. These guys, there
was one that was over 21, and the rest were under 19, 18 years
old. I guess it starts with the gun charges that they were
arrested for. To be let out on that, well, why? You commit a
crime, you should be in jail. You should stay there. To be let
out, and then to find out, like I said, the main shooter, five
names he wrote on that wall in the prison cell, proudly, very
proudly. I mean, 19 years old. At the time of the case my
daughter was 19, and this woman is in the Air Force, trying to
get her life together and figure it out. Or she could have sat
home and just shot people and sold drugs and got away with it,
for how many years.
This doesn't need to happen, and it is continuing to
happen. The low bail is what brings people out. This is what I
said federally, thank God, the job is not in Larry Krasner's
hands. I would totally believe that at least one to two, maybe
three of them would be out by now. The crime is just out of
control, and I get really emotional talking about it, because
Jim should still be here.
Mr. Cline. It is, and he should still be here, and, in
fact, they are trying to take more away from Mr. Krasner. I am
noticing that the Governor just signed Act 40 into law in the
final months of last year to allow the State's Attorney General
to appoint a special prosecutor on any crime that occurs within
500 yards of a SEPTA property in Philadelphia. It allows the
special prosecutor to intervene in all such cases through 2026,
which is when Krasner's current term would end.
So, hopefully they are going to be able to take more away
from Krasner so that he won't be able to dismiss and ignore the
crimes that are occurring cross this city.
Mr. Bochetto, in my final seconds, I wanted to ask you
about the attempted impeachment of Mr. Krasner. He was
successfully impeached in the House, and then he sued to block
it, the trial in the Senate. Is that correct?
Mr. Bochetto. That is absolutely correct.
Mr. Cline. Can you talk about the effort that you undertook
and how it seems that it was thrown out by a single judge, and
what that does to Mr. Krasner's, I don't know, willingness, as
it were. Is he just going to be encouraged by that, to continue
to try and ignore more crime in the city?
Mr. Bochetto. I think he is. It was even worse than that.
What happened was in the September/October terms of 2022, House
Republicans impeached Larry Krasner. Just like in the Federal
model, in the State model here in Pennsylvania from there it
goes to a trial in the Senate. Unfortunately, the House changed
control in the November 2022 elections, and they lost 13
sitting Republicans, converted to Democratic control, and as
soon as that happened they fired the House manager of the
impeachment process, who had engaged me.
So, we were essentially shut down by politics and never had
the chance to really present the case to the Senate. Then as
you point out, thereafter, Mr. Krasner presented a petition to
a Democratic judge, who I believe in a partisan way,
interrupted the process. The impeachment is now in mothballs.
I wish to point out, one of the biggest issues in the
Krasner impeachment has nothing to do with whether crime is
rising or crime is going down or that type of thing. It is the
manner in which he disregards victims of crime. Victims have
State and Federal rights, and most recently Larry Krasner was
held in contempt of court, in Federal proceedings, where he
directly lied to the court about consulting with victim crime
families in implementing reductions in sentences. It was a
direct lie. He was called out on it. It was confirmed in the
Third Circuit. It is an act of misconduct.
Mr. Cline. Thank you.
Chair Jordan. Thank you. The gentleman yields back. The
gentlelady from North Carolina is recognized.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I want to just thank
all the witnesses for being here. I was born in Philadelphia.
My father, his entire family is from Philadelphia. So, every
time I come back it has a special place in my heart, and I do
believe that every single one of you here wants Philadelphia to
be the best that it possibly can be. So, I am going to focus my
questions on things that might help prevent violent crimes from
occurring.
I represent Wake County, North Carolina, and this is a
place that is home to both metropolitan centers, like downtown
Raleigh, and smaller, much more rural towns. Yet, each part of
my district represents the challenges that we have heard today,
though not with our district attorney.
What we have seen is that violence is not segregated to
large cities or Democratic areas. Today we have violence
because it is easier than ever to access a firearm, and to
access it illegally. I call my sheriff--I only have one sheriff
because I only represent one county, but I have 10 chiefs of
police--I call them every 4-6 weeks just to check in. The two
things they tell me every single time: First, too much access
to illegal firearms. It threatens the communities and it
threatens their own officers.
The second thing is how difficult it is to recruit
officers. It is easier in some of the small towns because the
cost of living is lower and you just know everybody.
Particularly in Raleigh it is very difficult to recruit
officers. So, I have been working on that, in particular,
trying to recruit all different kinds of officers and more
female officers, because they tend to be better at some of the
de-
escalation that we need to see when they confront the
community.
I want to share a recent example from a suburban
neighborhood in my district, Hedingham. In October 2022,
Hedingham experienced a mass shooting. The shooter was a 15-
year-old who took a firearm that he used to kill five people
from his family home, and it was left unsecured. In North
Carolina, guns are now the leading cause of injury or death for
children, surpassing car accidents, and one of the reasons for
this tragedy is the lack of safe storage, same all across the
country. Forty-two percent of the households in my State own
firearms, legally own firearms, but half of those households do
not have safe storage.
Nationally, 70 percent of school shootings are committed by
children who have had unsecured guns in their home. Seventy-
five percent of unintentional shootings of children are
committed with unsecured guns, and 80 percent of firearm
suicides by children involve family weapons. In addition,
thousands of unsecured guns are reported stolen in North
Carolina and across the country, threatening not only their
families but the communities where these guns end up
proliferating.
My first question is for Dr. Abaya. How does safe storage
factor into community violence intervention programs?
Dr. Abaya. Thank you for that question. So, safe storage is
incredibly important in any community violence intervention
structure or ecosystem, specifically when it comes to children.
We know there is no circumstance under which a child should
have access to a gun. So safe storage is kind of a fundamental
component of anticipatory guidance for pediatricians who are
engaging with children. There is great evidence that safe
storage prevents accidental injuries, as you identified,
suicides, and I think that there is untapped promise for
community violence, the unique nature of interpersonal violence
that we see on the streets, because as you mention, unsecured
guns can end up causing violence in a myriad of ways.
Safe storage has been shown to be most impactful if you
link education with device provision. So, programs like the one
at CHOP that help families by both giving them the information
they need to keep their children safe and providing them with
information about a specific device have been shown to be most
effective.
There is also evidence that families are receptive to this
messaging, especially when it comes from trusted voices like
their permanent care provider. So, there is a lot of potential
to increase safe storage, specifically in protecting children.
Ms. Ross. OK. Mr. Chair, I would like to ask the
Fitzgeralds a question, and I am so devastated by the story of
what happened to your son and I hope that you get the justice
that you are seeking. I want to talk about safe storage in that
context because as Mr. Nadler described, the person who killed
your son in such a heinous, violent, and cruel way had known
mental health problems--well, at least from the record it
seemed like--also, had a family that allowed him to have access
to these guns.
So, we can let you talk about his mental health problems,
but his family let him have access to these guns when he was
under the age of 21. Do you think that safe storage or some way
of dealing with that could have been helpful in your situation?
Ms. Fitzgerald. So, I will answer that question. Yes, I do
believe his family gave him access to guns. As far as the
mental health, I have to say that during his preliminary he
said that he did not have any mental health history, so I don't
know where that statement is coming from.
Yes, I do feel that he had access to guns, and I do feel
that his family gave him that access. He was underage. He was
under the age to legally have a gun. So yes, I don't believe
they locked them up. I believe they shot on their property. I
believe he target shot and he has pictures on the internet with
all kinds of guns.
Ms. Ross. OK. Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields.
Mr. Biggs. I have a UC.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman is recognized.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to put in a Pew
Trust report which indicates that in my home State of Phoenix,
one of the highest per capita gun ownerships in the Nation,
constitutional carry, has one of the lowest homicide rates,
eight per 100,000, which is 3\1/2\ times less than
Philadelphia. I ask that to--
Chair Jordan. Without objection.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman from New Jersey is recognized
for five minutes.
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, Dr. Fitzgerald,
Ms. Fitzgerald, Ms. O'Connor, I am sorry you have to be here,
and I mean that, and you are here for a specific purpose. I
don't want us to lose what the focus of this hearing is, and we
have to keep our eye on the ball. Politics is a nasty business
sometimes when folks are in a corner they want to talk about
everything over here, the shiny object over here. We really
need to talk about what is happening in Philadelphia, and we
need to talk about the policies in Philadelphia with this
prosecutor. That is what we are here for.
I have got to tell you; I live at the Jersey shore. My
district is the New Jersey shore. I am sure you are familiar
with it. In the summertime, actually for about five months of
the year, we are more Philadelphia and Eastern Pennsylvania
than we are New Jersey. We are outnumbered. God help you if you
are a Yankee fan or a Knicks fan--you are in big trouble.
I talk to a lot of law enforcement. A lot of law
enforcement come down, to whether it is Sea Isle City, Stone
Harbor, Avalon, Cape May, etc., and they all say the same
thing. They are afraid to do their job in Philadelphia. That is
the issue we are talking about today. That is why we are here.
I talk to people who live in Philly, that love Philly. It
is in their blood, multiple generations, and they are scared,
and they are not only--let me just give the 1,000-pound
elephant, or whatever. They are not all white. They are White,
Black, Hispanic, and Asian and they are all afraid because
violence, we are all afraid of it, and we all deserve to live
in a safe home, in a safe neighborhood, with police that can do
their job.
We are talking about the death penalty and Donald Trump and
ghost guns and George Soros and antisemitism. No, George Soros,
the issue is he purposely and willfully has made it a goal of
his to liberalize and change prosecutors throughout the United
States of America, including Philadelphia, and is directly
involved. It has nothing to do with antisemitism.
We talk about political agenda, safe storage. That is not
the issue today. They are important issues. Some of them are.
Some of them, quite frankly, are not, but some of them are. It
is not the issue. You know what the issue is today? It is
enforcing the law. It is against the law to rape. It is against
the law to murder. It is against the law to beat people to
death. It is against the law to distribute drugs. It is against
the law to carjack. It is against the law to steal. We are not
enforcing the law in the city of Philadelphia and in many other
locations in the United States of America. We can talk about
all these other issues that people are bringing up today, but
that is the issue that we are here for.
Larry Krasner--I am sorry. I am going to say it because I
am a blunt guy. I am not an attorney. I am a dentist, and we
just say it right out there. He is a bad guy. He is doing bad
things. Larry Krasner, cops are in danger because of what he
does. Larry Krasner--and I hate to say it this way; I don't
know how else to say it, though--your son, your husband isn't
here because of his policies. It is common sense. How can you
keep leaving people out over and over and over again when they
have killed, raped, stolen, and hurt others? It doesn't make
sense. It is wrong. All those other issues are important, but
this is what we are here for. It has to stop. That is why we
are having that hearing.
I am sick of it. I am tired of it. The problem was created
by politicians, and so now I guess politicians, we have got to
try to straighten it out. This is a created problem that didn't
need to happen, and it shouldn't happen, and God help you. I
feel so bad for you having to sit here, through all this stuff,
and hear it all. I know your hearts are broken, and there are
no words. Nobody can say, ``We know how you feel.'' I don't
know how you feel. I didn't lose my spouse, I didn't lose my
son, so I don't know how you feel. I can only imagine it.
Ms. O'Connor, can you tell, quickly, the impact of lenient
sentencing and bail policies on your tragedy? Specifically, was
it those policies that caused this to happen to you?
Ms. O'Connor. Yes. I have said it--
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you.
Ms. O'Connor. --and I will say it again. My husband should
still be here.
Mr. Van Drew. What measures do you believe need to be
enacted to make this better? I think you know the answer to
that.
Ms. O'Connor. People need to be locked up and kept in jail.
These males had 10 guns in the room when that shooting
happened, 10.
Mr. Van Drew. They are released.
Ms. O'Connor. They had been released, released, and
released. It is ridiculous.
Mr. Van Drew. Damn it, they are bad people. Let's face it.
We have got to understand something in this world. There are
good people and bad people. There are some bad people. Bad
people need to be in jail, sometimes for the rest of their
lives.
Ms. O'Connor. I agree.
Mr. Van Drew. So, they can't do this to good people like
you.
Dr. and Ms. Fitzgerald, what would you do right now if this
was your world, and you could change it and you could make it
right today? If you had the supreme power, what would you do to
change this? I know it is a hard question. The doc gave it to
you.
Ms. Fitzgerald. We would start enforcing the law again.
There are laws for a reason. There is lawlessness in this city.
Mr. Van Drew. Enforce the damn law. Is it complicated? We
are trying to make it complicated but it is not. Enforce the
law. Bad people should be in jail. These are real bad people.
I'm sorry to interrupt. Doctor?
Dr. Fitzgerald. I just have to tell you, this Committee
believes in justice, right. Part of what we have to do is start
making sure that the folks responsible for facilitating
justice, for families like ours--and I just can't imagine what
you have gone through, as well. We have talked but it weighs
heavy on my heart.
Mr. Bochetto got it right. He attempted to enforce ethics
on a district attorney who lacks them.
Just a day ago we were getting off a plane, coming from San
Antonio, Texas, and we saw a press conference. I am sorry. We
saw a presser with Mr. Krasner and Steve Keeley, a local
reporter. Mr. Krasner indicated that he was not aware of this
Committee meeting until two days ago. He said a day ago, but
that would have been two days ago. That is patently false.
I would ask this Committee to investigate that.
Mr. Van Drew. He should be here. He should man up and be
here.
Dr. Fitzgerald. I agree with you. We have to be really
intentional about what we are saying here. We have a district
attorney in one of the largest major cities in the country,
who, on television yesterday, said he never knew about this
meeting. My wife and I, on the 24th of last month, were in his
presence, with my daughter-in-law, and about 10 of his people
in his office, doing the presentation that we told you about.
During the presentation we informed him of this meeting, and we
gave him a hard copy to reinforce it. Thankfully, I sent it to
a few other people, so I had a record.
So, I would ask this Committee if we believe in justice to
call the person responsible for ensuring that people in this
city get justice on the carpet. He should be before you, or
summoned before you now, and answer why he would go on
television and tell the community here that he is supposed to
serve, for the victims here he is supposed to serve, that lie.
I can't understand how we can confuse it. We can't write it any
other way. He did it, and he needs to be held accountable for
it. We can prove it.
Chair Jordan. The guy who is district attorney went on
television and told the community that he represents, that he
is supposed to serve, that he didn't know about this hearing,
but you had told him specifically about it two weeks prior to
him making that statement. Is that your testimony?
Dr. Fitzgerald. That is correct.
Chair Jordan. That is your testimony, Doctor?
Dr. Fitzgerald. That is our testimony. I would let my wife
answer it as well, but--
Chair Jordan. I appreciate you sharing that with the
Committee. That is important information that, frankly,
Philadelphians need to know, and to this point that Mr. Gaetz
and others have brought up about this effort to elect those
kinds of individuals to the district attorney's position need
to know about, as well.
The gentleman yields back. I appreciate that. The gentleman
from Maryland is recognized.
Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have only got five
minutes but I do want to pursue this issue about whether Mr.
Krasner was invited or not, but we can come back to that in a
moment. My understanding was that he was not.
Chair Jordan. He was invited. That wasn't what Mr.
Fitzgerald said.
Mr. Ivey. Yes, but just for my five minutes, I want to
stick with that.
Chair Jordan. We didn't invite him, but you guys could
have, as well.
Mr. Ivey. I just wanted to know if you did or not.
Chair Jordan. No, we didn't.
Mr. Ivey. OK. Let me say this. There are sort of two
hearings going on at once here, and I want to be very
respectful, actually, of both. On the one hand, for the
Fitzgeralds and the O'Connors, and I want to come back to you
in a minute, I am a former prosecutor at the Federal level in
Washington, DC, and at the local level in Prince George's
County, Maryland. I had to handle cases like this, almost
exactly like both of those. So, I want to talk with you about
it. It might make sense to do it offline, but it is a
conversation I would ask to have with you.
There are also a lot of numbers flying around right now
too--and I am not from Philadelphia; I just came up for the
hearing.
So, I am having a hard time piecing them together. I looked
up last night, it says homicides during Krasner's tenure, and I
noted that the Chair said, in his opening comments, that they
peaked in 2021, and that was at 562. They went down in 2022, to
514, and then this past year, 2023, they went down to 410.
Now, I also noted, when I looked up the election results,
he was elected in 2021 with 71.8 percent of the vote. So, I am
having trouble sort of squaring the two together, that he got--
well, I can come to you later--but, how he got that much
support, and I guess there is another election coming up, and I
guess we can see how it fares at that point.
I did want to raise this issue too. As I mentioned, I was a
prosecutor. I started in 1990 in D.C. during the height of the
crack wars. The local DA here was a guy named Ron Castille, I
guess. In 1989, the homicides were 476. In 1990, they were 500.
I guess he left--that is his ghost turning the lights down? I
don't know.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Ivey. I guess he left in 1991, to run for mayor, and he
lost that race.
I did want to note that those two numbers, 476 and 500,
were significantly higher, actually, certainly than Krasner's
in 2023, from 410.
Now, normally at a hearing like this, one of the things I
would like to do is figure out why that is the case and what
was happening in 1989, what was happening in 1990, what is
happening now. Then we would try and put together legislative
priorities to figure out how to continue to bring the numbers
down in Philadelphia and across the country. That is not what
we are doing today.
The Chair mentioned crazy things about policies, focused
primarily on Philadelphia, but I have got to note a couple too.
Ghost guns, which was referenced a few minutes ago. This is
legislation in Congress to ban ghost guns, and there is no
serious argument for having them available. They don't have
serial numbers. The only reason is so they can avoid criminal
prosecution. There are zero Republican sponsors for that bill.
I think it is 150-plus or something on the Democratic side.
I have got a bill called Raise the Age, which would lift it
from 18-21 years old, for you to be old enough to buy an
assault weapon. I didn't think that would be controversial
because current Federal law already is that you have got to be
21 to buy a handgun. I have zero Republican cosponsors for that
bill. We are well over 100.
Defund the police, which has been raised repeatedly by my
colleagues. I have to note that I have at least one colleague
on this panel who has a bill to defund the FBI, and another one
who has a bill to defund the ATF. So, Ms. O'Connor, I am glad
your case is being handled in the Federal Court, but if that
bill were to pass they wouldn't have the apparatus to do it.
So, it is important for us to try and figure out how to
continue to address these problems, and they are not easy to
address. They are very challenging in a lot of ways. I don't
think it is fully partisan either.
When I was walking here from the hotel I passed a billboard
in the next block down, and it was by JPChase, not exactly a
liberal bastion, where they are proposing efforts at reentry,
trying to help people who are coming out of jail to get back
integrated into the community and find jobs. I think that is
important. In fact, I started reentry programs when I was a
local prosecutor, because 99.999 percent of the people who go
to jail, even for murder and rape, are going to come out
eventually, even if they get convicted in Federal Court. So, we
should try and find ways to help get them back on the right
track.
The Koch brothers, not a group I typically praise. In fact,
this might be the first time I have ever said anything positive
about the Koch brothers in public. I will say this. They do
recognize that we have to try and find ways to address these
criminal justice issues in a bipartisan way, and the partisan
back and forth in a forum like this really doesn't get there.
So, I am over my time, maybe not as much as some of the
others, but I want to renew this request--you don't know about
this but this is my fourth time doing it before this
Committee--for us to try and get to a point where we can move
forward with bipartisan legislation, bipartisan efforts to
address policies that can make a difference. Some of them are
going to be conservative. Some of them will involve keeping
more people in jail for longer periods of time. Some of them
won't. Some of them might also involve dealing with the fact
that we have 300--well, 400 million guns in the United States.
That is like more than one for any person in the United States.
Young people in my community and across the country have far
too easy access to getting them. As we saw in Michigan, and
apparently in your case, as well, parents who are not willing
to step up and keep them under control and keep them away from
those guns.
So, I thank all of you for being here, Ms. O'Connor, the
Fitz-
geralds, in particular, because this is a weight you are going
to have to carry for the rest of your lives, and you are doing
an outstanding job with it, based on what I have seen today. I
encourage you to do it because it is important to keep the
pressure on. Beyond Larry Krasner, folks like the House
Judiciary Committee, who can do bigger things than we are doing
today, to try and address the issues that you have raised.
Thank you for what you are doing, and Mr. Chair, I yield
back.
Chair Jordan. I appreciate it. The gentleman yields back,
and I would just say to the gentleman's request for
bipartisanship, we did that two days ago, your bill.
Mr. Ivey. Oh, can I mention that? Can I mention that?
Recruit and Retain. So, we passed a bill two days ago--
Chair Jordan. The gentleman is recognized again.
Mr. Ivey. Thank you. So I cosponsored it with a Republican
from Texas, and we just thought the bill would fly through. One
of my Republican colleagues actually objected to the bill. In
fact, it was more than one. It was two. So, we ended up with a
voice vote.
This is a bill to get more police officers, to find ways to
get more police officers to join and to keep them around.
Chair Jordan. Let the record show the Chair did not object.
I have supported the legislation.
Mr. Ivey. I thank the Chair for that. I really do.
That is just an example of the automatic going to corners
and going to talking points instead of finding a way to work
together.
Chair Jordan. I think that bill will be on the floor in a
couple of weeks, and will likely pass the House of
Representatives, which is what I think the gentleman from
Maryland would like to see.
I appreciate the gentleman. The gentleman yields back.
The gentleman who came the farthest, the gentleman from
California is recognized.
Mr. Kiley. There are two sights that we should never see in
this country, but have become all too familiar in places like
this. The first is open air drug markets. The second is stores
that have to put basic merchandise under lock and key, not just
jewelry or expensive electronics, but gardening supplies at
Home Depot, soap and shampoo at CVS.
These conditions make people feel unsafe, they degrade the
quality of life, and they fuel still greater criminal activity.
Yet, these conditions do not exist uniformly across the
country. Rather, they are concentrated in jurisdictions like
this one. They are the product of conscious political choices.
So, Mr. Gerace, as one example, could you tell us about the
Kensington neighborhood here in Philadelphia, the open air drug
market there, and the political choices that have ushered in
that reality?
Mr. Gerace. I am happy to answer this question. So, this
again points directly to Larry Krasner. The 24th Police
District was the district I was at for 12 years. It is
Kensington, Allegheny. In the media it is known as the
Kensington Beach. You see videos of it. In fact, this is a very
embarrassing Mexico-used video from Kensington Avenue as an
antidrug commercial in Mexico. It is the land of the walking
dead. It is disgraceful.
I have never seen it this bad in my life, and there is one
reason why it is this bad. It is Larry Krasner. It all points
back to him. He has stopped the gears of the criminal justice
system from working. When this happens, we saw the pileup down
there. He stopped locking people up for minor possessions,
which people down there in Kensington would lock up for heroin
mainly, crack sometimes. Now, you are getting fentanyl. They
are users. They are not selling. They have low levels on them.
Now, they are not being prosecuted.
Well, we are not just talking about sending them to jail.
What happens is they go to court and they get put in treatment
programs, and they get help. Not all of them. Most of them come
back to the streets and use. They are off the street. Some of
them do get help, and they do not come back, and they prosecute
the drug dealers. That is not happening anymore.
So, what we see now is it exactly points to Larry Krasner,
is the pileup from the criminal justice system not doing what
it is supposed to do, the drug users are not getting help, the
drug dealers are not getting prosecuted, and we have Kensington
Avenue. It is a disgrace.
Mr. Kiley. That is such an important point. As these
policies are fundamentally lacking in compassion because they
don't get people the help that they need to turn their lives
around.
Mr. Bochetto, could you tell us about what the district
attorney's approach to retail theft has been and what the
consequences have been?
Mr. Bochetto. Well, the consequences have been terrible.
The memo that was circulated in the District Attorney's Office
said that any retail theft not exceeding $500 in value will not
be prosecuted. The line DAs are to stand down and dismiss the
charges.
The consequence has been rising levels, frightening rising
levels of retail theft, to the point where major and minor
department stores, pharmacies, bodegas are all moving out of
Philadelphia. Wawa moved several facilities out of
Philadelphia. H&K moved out of Philadelphia. All these
retailers that rely on some semblance of enforcement of
antitheft laws are moving out. The ones that haven't moved out,
they are hiring their own private police force. They are hiring
their own security guards. Unfortunately, we had a situation
not long ago in Philadelphia where a private security guard
actually shot and killed a would-be thief.
Now, you don't want would-be thieves of minor amounts of
money being shot to death, but that is what happens when the
system won't act and the system won't operate, and people take
matters into their own hands.
Mr. Kiley. That is right.
Mr. Bochetto. I thought, years, decades, centuries ago got
past the idea of people taking matters into their own hands and
having an organized law enforcement system for a civilized
society.
Mr. Kiley. That is right.
Mr. Bochetto. We do not have that any longer in
Philadelphia, thanks to Mr. Krasner.
Mr. Kiley. The link couldn't be clearer between the
political choices and the reality that folks are forced to cope
with. For the last year, Mr. Chair, this Committee has been
examining the crime crisis that exists in cities across this
country, and everywhere we look it is the same story. It is the
same three causes. It is criminal laws that don't have
appropriate consequences for criminal activity, it is police
departments that have been deprived of funding and personnel,
and it is prosecutors who refuse to fairly and even-handedly
enforce the law. It is the triumph of politics over public
safety.
I agree with my colleague from Maryland 100 percent. We
need to have bipartisan support for restoring the proper place
of public safety. Fortunately, that is what you are seeing
right now, is the pendulum is starting to swing back toward
sanity. Even in my home State of California, the district
attorney of San Francisco was recalled. The district attorney
of the neighboring county, Alameda, where Oakland is on the
verge of being recalled. Police departments that had their
funding cut have had it restored, and a ballot initiative that
would reverse some of our worst drug and theft laws is gaining
overwhelming support. So, the work of this Committee has been
very important in swinging the pendulum back the other way.
As a final note, I just want to say thank you to the
victims and families who are here. Your voice is incredibly
important, and I can't imagine how painful it must be to relive
the loss and the trauma and the horror that you went through.
Your voices are incredibly important in catalyzing the change
that this city and this country needs.
Thank you. I yield back.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
recognizes the gentleman from this great State, Mr. Meuser,
from the State of Pennsylvania.
Mr. Meuser. Thank you, Mr. Chair, very much. It is great to
be here. I appreciate you inviting me and waiving me onto this
Committee. Incredibly compelling testimonies. I just feel so
much emotion toward each one of your testimonies. Certainly, to
the Fitzgeralds, beyond condolences. Ms. O'Connor, so many
real-life situations that you are expressing to us. Your
testimony is very real. It must be very frustrating for me to
hear someone deny the realities of crime of the sense of safety
that people have, where smash-and-grabs and we have this new
migrant crime, we have squatting, we have all these new terms,
basically, that have been created just over the last couple of
years because of the reasons that have been very well expressed
here.
Also, the character of the district attorney. The list goes
on. We in Pennsylvania know this individual and know his
shortcomings, and yet he does get reelected overwhelmingly, and
he can't even tell the truth about whether or not he knew about
being here, which, under testimony, Dr. Fitzgerald stated
emphatically, yet was even questioned. Even that was not
treated in a credible manner. If we can't face reality, we are
certainly not going to solve the problem.
So, crime is out of control. Since Krasner has been in,
murders in Philadelphia, no matter how you slice it, are up
over 30 percent. There is minimal enforcement that takes place.
Look at our campuses. Even University of Pennsylvania,
certainly Columbia, UCLA. The list goes on. There is no
enforcement taking place. It was allowed to fester until it got
to a breaking point, and finally they went in. That is what is
happening on our streets, when you just let it go. I don't have
to tell you, Mr. Fitzgerald or Mr. Gerace. You know it, you see
it, and you live it.
So, the reasons are we have discussed. Prosecutors are
simply not prosecuting. As a matter of fact, in Philadelphia,
the prosecution rate of violent criminals is down under 30
percent. Six or seven years ago, before he got into office it
was nearly 70 percent. You know what? In most cities, many
cities anyway, it is that high.
Compare Philadelphia to San Diego. San Diego has a
prosecution rate above 70 percent. Krasner, by the way, no
longer provides the data on his prosecution rate, so we think
it is about 30 percent. Similar sized cities, Philadelphia is a
little bit larger. Philly, last year, down from 509 murders,
which was more than New York City, with one quarter the
population, last year was 389. San Diego, that prosecutes
violent crimes over 70 percent of the time had 45 murders,
homicides, murders. So, anyway, that is No. 1.
Second, is the defunding of the police. The numbers are
clear. The numbers don't lie. Since 2020, Philadelphia Police
Department is down $66 million. Now, the size of their budget
and all is, I believe, about $750 million, but I mean, it is
almost 10 percent since 2020, with inflation and everything
else. So, hundreds, thousands, Mr. Gerace stated, down in
recruitment and in force.
So, let me ask you, Mr. Fitzgerald. We already stated how
Krasner lied, so we won't cover that again. Do you believe that
Krasner is not prosecuting those who break gun laws, not
enforcing simple gun laws that some feel are the answer to all
this. Are gun laws that exist in Pennsylvania and Philadelphia
being enforced or are they being let out, as well?
Dr. Fitzgerald. As a chief of police in another State now
it is hard for me to focus simply on Philadelphia. However, I
obviously have deep roots here within the Police Department,
and I will tell you that there is a dramatic effect in the city
for when there is a lack of prosecution for gun-related crimes.
I will cite an instance.
I have a family member that is in politics here who was in
his district, and he said hello to someone that he knew who
probably should have been in jail. He talked to the person and
said, ``What is going on? You just got arrested for having a
gun.'' This person has been arrested five times for having
firearms in their possession, and said, ``You know why I'm
out.''
Mr. Meuser. So, if these gun laws were enforced you think
there would be less gun violence?
Dr. Fitzgerald. I believe that if these gun laws here in
the State, in the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, were being
prosecuted effectively, were being pursued effectively, would
work.
We are not perfect. No one is perfect. We are not asking
that the District Attorney's Office be perfect or even
legislature. What we can ask for is there be a semblance of
civility, and that civility comes with having the rule of law.
When the rule of law is not enforced you have anarchy. We are
seeing anarchy in our cities.
I am in Colorado now. I have been a police chief in Iowa. I
have been a police chief in Texas twice, in Pennsylvania.
Fortunately, I am able to sort of see across the country what
the ebbs and flows of violent crime cause people and what gun-
related violence cause.
Mr. Meuser. Mr. Gerace, do you feel that the morale of
police is low due to disrespect, defunding, and demoralizing?
Mr. Gerace. One hundred percent. So, these criminals, they
know, they tell these cops to their face, ``Uncle Larry is
going to let me out in a couple of hours,'' and that is exactly
what happens. So, the numbers in these carjackings and
shootings, one of the reasons why juveniles are being ushered
in, they are being arrested, and they are out within five
hours. We all know the juvenile gets in trouble for something,
there are no consequences. They are going to keep going.
Mr. Meuser. What can we do about it?
Mr. Gerace. Prosecute. Prosecute the crimes. This is almost
a banana republic. It is a joke. It was mentioned as a circus.
I know where the clowns are. You keep saying you want new gun
laws. Let's enforce the gun laws that are on the books now, and
we will see what happens. We don't need new laws. We need the
prosecutor to prosecute the laws that are on the books right
now.
We are talking about Larry Krasner's election results. You
need to know the nuances in Philadelphia. The election is in
the primary. He won by six percent. Seventeen percent showed up
to vote. That is it. A teddy bear could win the primary, and
when it came to election the Republican will lose to the teddy
bear in Philadelphia. That is the way it is.
Mr. Meuser. We get what we vote for.
Ms. O'Connor, I am going to give you the last word, please.
Is there anything that you would like to say to Larry Krasner,
if he did show up, as he was invited?
[Inaudible.]
Mr. Meuser. Excuse me. I am questioning right this moment.
Did you invite him? The gentleman here did. Hold on a second.
Larry Krasner stated that he did not know about--whether he was
invited or not, he did not know about the hearing, and Dr.
Fitzgerald testified, under oath, that he did, in fact, know
about the hearing.
Mr. Ivey. I think the Chair addressed that a few minutes
ago.
Mr. Meuser. You want to sit there and defend George Soros?
You are the one here who--Larry Krasner receives $1.5 million
dollars. I am in the middle of my testimony.
Mr. Nadler. I am asking how Mr. Fitzgerald knew that Larry
Krasner knew about this hearing.
Chair Jordan. We did not--I am going to let Mr. Fitzgerald
explain it, because he said it right. What he said was there
was a hearing. He told District Attorney Krasner there was a
hearing, and after that, a week and a half later, Mr. Krasner
said he didn't know about the hearing. That's not being
truthful because he heard it from a guy who was coming to
testify and knew about the hearing. Obviously, because him and
his wife are testifying. That is what took place.
Mr. Ivey. Well, Mr. Chair, just to remind you of what you
just said a few minutes ago, you stated that the Committee had
not invited him.
Chair Jordan. No, I was clear about that. We didn't invite
him.
Mr. Ivey. I think that was the only point that was being
made.
Mr. Meuser. The witness, Dr. Fitzgerald, notified them--
Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, I would point out that--
Chair Jordan. Hang on. Hang on.
[Simultaneous speaking.]
Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, I would point out--
Chair Jordan. The Ranking Member is recognized.
Mr. Nadler. --there was no point to Mr. Krasner coming to
this hearing if he couldn't testify.
Mr. Meuser. Well, Ranking Member, you--
Mr. Nadler. He should have the ability to testify.
Mr. Meuser. Ranking Member, you lost your credibility when
you compared this to a nonviolent, frivolous suit in New York,
while we have people here whose family members have been
murdered, OK. Your credibility was gone at that point.
Chair Jordan. Last question.
Mr. Meuser. Ms. O'Connor, back to you, please.
Chair Jordan. Ms. O'Connor.
Mr. Meuser. If DA Krasner were here, what would you like to
say to him?
Ms. O'Connor. I think I said it in my testimony. Jim got up
to go to work that night, and his job was to save and protect
our city, and he was supposed to come home to me in the
morning. He did his job. If you did yours and kept criminals
where they are supposed to be, behind bars, maybe Jim would
still be here today. Do your job.
Mr. Meuser. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chair.
Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. Ms. O'Connor, I
want to thank you for being here. We thank Jim for his service
to this community and to our country, and to your family, as
well. To Dr. and Ms. Fitzgerald, the same to you for what
Christopher, how he served. Marissa, thank you, as well. God
bless you for being here.
I want to thank all our witnesses for being here today at
this important hearing, where I do think, as I indicated to Mr.
Ivey, that we can do some bipartisan things that will help. We
have also got to get rid of the crazy policies that are leading
to the consequences that we see in so many communities.
That concludes today's hearing. Without objection, all
Members will have five legislative days to submit additional
written questions for the witnesses or additional materials for
the record.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:45 a.m., the hearing was adjourned.]
All materials submitted for the record by Members of the
Committee on the Judiciary can be found at: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=117234.
[all]