[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
FROM IVORY TOWERS TO DARK CORNERS:
INVESTIGATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN
ANTISEMITISM, TAX-EXEMPT UNIVERSITIES, AND
TERROR FINANCING
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
NOVEMBER 15, 2023
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Ways and Means
Serial #118-FC17
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABL IN TIFF FORMAT]
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
55-066 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
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COMMITTEE ON WAYS AND MEANS
JASON SMITH, Missouri, Chairman
VERN BUCHANAN, Florida RICHARD E. NEAL, Massachusetts
ADRIAN SMITH, Nebraska LLOYD DOGGETT, Texas
MIKE KELLY, Pennsylvania MIKE THOMPSON, California
DAVID SCHWEIKERT, Arizona JOHN B. LARSON, Connecticut
DARIN LaHOOD, Illinois EARL BLUMENAUER, Oregon
BRAD WENSTRUP, Ohio BILL PASCRELL, Jr., New Jersey
JODEY ARRINGTON, Texas DANNY DAVIS, Illinois
DREW FERGUSON, Georgia LINDA SANCHEZ, California
RON ESTES, Kansas BRIAN HIGGINS, New York
LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania TERRI SEWELL, Alabama
KEVIN HERN, Oklahoma SUZAN DelBENE, Washington
CAROL MILLER, West Virginia JUDY CHU, California
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina GWEN MOORE, Wisconsin
DAVID KUSTOFF, Tennessee DAN KILDEE, Michigan
BRIAN FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania DON BEYER, Virginia
GREG STEUBE, Florida DWIGHT EVANS, Pennsylvania
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
MICHELLE FISCHBACH, Minnesota JIMMY PANETTA, California
BLAKE MOORE, Utah
MICHELLE STEEL, California
BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
RANDY FEENSTRA, Iowa
NICOLE MALLIOTAKIS, New York
MIKE CAREY, Ohio
Mark Roman, Staff Director
Brandon Casey, Minority Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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OPENING STATEMENTS
Page
Hon. Jason Smith, Missouri, Chairman............................. 1
Hon. Richard Neal, Massachusetts, Ranking Member................. 3
Advisory of November 15, 2023 announcing the hearing............. V
WITNESSES
Talia Dror, Student at Cornell University and Vice President of
Finance, Cornellians for Israel................................ 4
Adam Lehman, President & CEO, Hillel International............... 11
Jonathan Schanzer, Senior Vice President of Research, Foundation
for Defense of Democracies..................................... 25
Noa Tishby, Best selling author and Israel's Former Special Envoy
for Combatting Antisemitism.................................... 42
Jonathan Greenblatt, CEO & National Director, Anti-Defamation
League......................................................... 47
MEMBER QUESTIONS FOR THE RECORD
Member Questions for the Record to and Responses from Talia Dror,
Student at Cornell University and Vice President of Finance,
Cornellians for Israel......................................... 116
PUBLIC SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Public Submissions............................................... 121
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
FROM IVORY TOWERS TO DARK CORNERS:
INVESTIGATING THE NEXUS BETWEEN ANTISEMITISM, TAX-EXEMPT
UNIVERSITIES, AND TERROR FINANCING
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WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2023
House of Representatives,
Committee on Ways and Means,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 2:11 p.m. in Room
1100, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Jason T. Smith
[Chairman of the Committee] presiding.
Chairman SMITH. The committee will come to order.
Good afternoon, everyone. I want to, before we start,
recognize two members who have decided that they want to leave
us in Congress, Mr. Brad Wenstrup and Brian Higgins. Since the
last time that we met, the news came out with both of them.
Brad has devoted his life to service whether it was in the
Army, whether it was as a doctor, or also in Congress. And
Brian has been a tireless advocate for western New York, dating
all the way back to his time on the Buffalo City Council.
We all wish you both well in your next endeavors, and we
will miss you, but we are still going to have some fun time
ahead.
So the October--oh, Richie, yes.
Mr. NEAL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me also say some
really fine things about the two people that you have just
referenced.
Brian Higgins would have shared many of the same traditions
that I did coming along on the city council on the way up, but
a stellar member of this committee in all forms.
And Brad Wenstrup, I am delighted to have met. What a
terrific human being. And we are going to miss him, a really
fine guy.
And you know, the time that I have been here, they also
have something else in common. They both knew how to make their
point, but they were never malicious. Thank you.
Chairman SMITH. The October 7 terrorist attack by Hamas was
barbaric and horrifying. Civilians were targeted, tortured,
raped, murdered, and kidnaped. Approximately 240 people are
being held hostage in Gaza right now. They range in age from 9
months to 85 years old, and come from over 33 countries,
including the United States. The families of these hostages are
living in anguish, hoping and praying their loved ones are
alive and will come home.
We stand with these families and Israel. We affirm Israel's
right to fully defend itself against terrorists. While we stand
with the Jewish people, what makes this moment worse is that
many have responded by blaming Israel. Unfortunately, the
hateful beliefs behind the attack are not isolated to the
Middle East. This committee has jurisdiction over the tax code
and must address two related issues that have been laid bare in
the aftermath of October 7.
First, tax-exempt charities operating in the United States
are providing support, encouragement, and potential financing
to Hamas and Hamas-affiliated groups. This concern is not
theoretical. In the early 2000s, the U.S. Government identified
and shut down the Holy Land Foundation in the United States.
That foundation funneled 12.4 million from Americans to Hamas.
Shockingly, a 500(c)(3) entity called American Muslims for
Palestine and its related (c)(4) have been sued in Federal
court for operating as an alter ego of the Holy Land
Foundation. The two groups have many of the same leaders and
may be continuing the same efforts to support Hamas.
Second, the eruption of hatred towards Jewish students on
college campuses after the October 7 attack has been disturbing
to watch, but the organization around it is not some organic
movement. It has been carefully built over years, in part by
American Muslims for Palestine. They helped build, shape, and
train a group called Students for Justice in Palestine, or SJP.
Many SJP events have involved pro-Hamas slogans and have led to
intimidation, harassment, and violence against Jewish students.
Unfortunately, an absence of leadership on college campuses
has allowed hostility toward Jewish students to escalate since
October 7, and too many university presidents have sought to
placate the most radical voices on their campuses. University
presidents were quick and forceful in issuing statements
supporting numerous social justice matters. They haven't shied
away from commenting on other events affecting their students,
but, when it comes to the bloodiest day for Jews since the
Holocaust, they couldn't find their voices.
Cornell's president had to clarify her initial vague
statement to let people know she does think Hamas's attack was
terrorism.
Harvard's president waited days to comment, allowing
student groups condemning Israel to implicitly speak for the
university.
At the same time, we have seen pro-Palestinian protest
become a means of intimidation and threats of violence. When
they fail to act, universities claim it is about free speech
rights. But that is laughable. These universities have a track
record of failing to protect free speech rights, while instead
protecting preferred speech.
In fact, colleges are actively suppressing speech protected
by the First Amendment. For example, the Foundation for
Individual Rights and Education, or FIRE, rates universities on
their commitment to free speech on campuses. The University of
Pennsylvania's latest rating is ``very poor.'' This is likely
due to multiple instances of professors being investigated and
disciplined for expressing various opinions relating to race
and gender.
Universities can and should protect free speech rights on
campus for all voices, not just the ones that they prefer. This
shouldn't be hard. Good people around the world have the moral
clarity to call out evil as evil; terrorism as terrorism. We
should have that same moral clarity as we proceed today.
Chairman SMITH. I am pleased to recognize the ranking
member, Mr. Neal, for his opening statement.
Mr. NEAL. Thank you for calling this hearing, Mr. Chairman.
And let there be no doubt that I, along with our colleagues on
the Democratic side, as well, are here today to condemn anti-
Semitism in all its forms, including the brutal attack that was
launched by the terrorist organization Hamas on Israel on
October 7. The last month has been heartbreaking. To all those
who are affected by the ongoing war, to the students who are
afraid, and to all those whose hearts are broken watching the
devastation unfold, please know we are with you.
Over a month ago, Hamas unleashed evil, slaughtering 1,200
people and kidnaping hundreds, including Americans. This
horrific event was the largest loss of Jewish life in a single
day since the Holocaust. Meanwhile, there has been a sharp tick
in anti-Semitism. These are not isolated incidents any longer.
They are taking place on campuses across the country and
communities, as well, and bringing back the pain and fear that
Jewish people know all too well and they should not have to
endure.
Our first priority must always be safety. Universities also
have a responsibility to cultivate safe and supportive learning
environments. Anti-Semitism is not innate; it is learned.
As Members of Congress, we must lead by example, requiring
us not only to reject, but to condemn hate outright in all
forms: racism, misogyny, xenophobia, Islamophobia. They have no
place here and no place on our college campuses.
We know that those who spew hatred toward one group also
target others. Combating anti-Semitism on campuses not only
gives Jewish students the dignity, respect, and safety they
deserve, but also builds on our broader efforts to counter
bigotry and hate. Hate is an epidemic, and it must be combated
comprehensively.
Recently, we have seen bombings on HBCU campuses, Asian
students targeted in the wake of the pandemic, and rampant
examples of White supremacy, all instances of hate-fueled
discrimination, and we cannot be silent.
The Biden Administration has been dogged, launching new
efforts to combat anti-Semitism on campuses back in May, and
deepening that work over the last month. The Administration has
quickly laid out a national security supplemental funding
package to not only bolster the fight against Hamas terrorism,
but also to deliver much-needed humanitarian aid for innocent
people. There is bipartisan support for this funding, and the
time is now to act.
The Department of Justice and Homeland Security are leading
efforts to strengthen coordination between campus law
enforcement and state and local law enforcement, as well, to
keep these students safe while also providing cybersecurity
experts to support universities in assessing online risks.
The Department of Education has taken several steps to
address prohibited forms of anti-Semitic discrimination under
title 6 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
This afternoon, there is an opportunity to listen, and I am
grateful to our witnesses for taking the time to share their
experiences and to let us know how Congress can best support
you. Your appearance today is a profound act of courage and
serves as a powerful reminder that we must always put people
and free speech first.
Fighting anti-Semitism and all the hate must not be a
dividing issue. But denouncing bigotry is an American value,
and one that we all must carry forward from this day into the
future.
Mr. NEAL. With that, I yield back the balance of my time.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you, Ranking Member Neal.
I am pleased to see such a large audience for our hearing
today.
As a reminder, the chairman is responsible under the rules
of the House and the rules of the committee to maintain order
and preserve decorum in the committee room, and members of the
audience are reminded that they must behave in an orderly
fashion.
I will now introduce our witnesses.
Ms. Talia Dror is a student at Cornell University and vice
president of finance for Cornellians for Israel.
Adam Lehman is president and CEO of Hillel International.
Jonathan Schanzer is senior vice president of research for
the Foundation for Defense of Democracies.
And Noa Tishby is a best-selling author and Israel's former
special envoy for combating anti-Semitism.
Jonathan Greenblatt is CEO and national director of the
Anti-Defamation League.
Thank you all for joining us today. Your written statements
will be made part of the hearing record, and you each have five
minutes to deliver remarks.
Ms. Dror, you may begin when you are ready.
STATEMENT OF TALIA DROR, STUDENT AT CORNELL UNIVERSITY AND VICE
PRESIDENT OF FINANCE, CORNELLIANS FOR ISRAEL
Ms. DROR. Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Neal, and members
of the Ways and Means Committee, thank you for the invitation
to testify today.
My name is Talia Dror, I am a student at Cornell studying
industrial and labor relations with minors in business and
legal policy. But beyond that, I am the embodiment of the
American dream. I am the child of an immigrant who fled Iran
after facing religious persecution, dreaming of an America
where she could openly raise a Jewish family.
I grew up hearing the cautionary tales of blatant anti-
Semitism, how my grandfather was stabbed for being a Jew, how
my mother was called a dirty Jew on a daily basis, how my
family had to pretend they weren't Jewish. But I never thought
the horrific anti-Semitism they faced would follow us to the
country we fled to for refuge.
Thirty-nine days ago, as I witnessed the mass rape,
mutilation, and massacre committed by Hamas, my reality as a
college student in the United States radically transformed.
Students, professors, and administrators at Cornell celebrated
the massacre of innocent civilians. Just five days after the
heinous terror attacks, the student assembly introduced a
resolution calling Hamas ``an armed resistance,'' and placing
full blame for the October 7 attacks on Israel.
At the hearing, I spoke about the fact that the very
terrorists endorsed by that resolution called for a global Day
of Rage the next day. I explained that, as a Jewish student
leader, my community is terrified to walk around the school
they pay to attend because they are afraid of getting
threatened, assaulted, or killed.
Students at rallies chant genocidal phrases like, ``From
the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.'' This is a chant
that calls for the elimination of the State of Israel and all
seven million Jews inside of it. This is a chant that calls for
a second Holocaust. Students scream, ``Intifada Revolution,''
calling for deadly terror attacks on civilians.
A Cornell professor announced that he was exhilarated and
energized by the Hamas attacks, by the murder of my family and
friends.
On October 25, Cornell students woke up to a campus
vandalized with graffiti that said, ``Zionism equals genocide
and New Intifada.'' That day, students walking into their
classes stepped over calls for terror attacks and accusations
of being genocidal for supporting the existence of the State of
Israel.
Cornell's administration has made firm statements on
everything from Supreme Court cases to the war in Ukraine to
Black Lives Matter. But, in the wake of the deadliest day in
Jewish history since the Holocaust, administrators have excused
endorsements of terrorism under the guise of free speech. In
their initial statement, they compared ``the loss of life in
the Middle East'' to deaths caused by natural disasters. They
allowed tensions to fester on campus, professors to use captive
audiences to preach terrorist sympathies, and the targeting of
Jewish students on their campus. They paved the perfect path
for radicalized individuals to shift calls for the murder of
Jews in Israel to calls for the extermination of Jews on
campus.
On the morning of October 29, the provost, in an address to
concerned Jewish parents, explained that while he understands
concerns for their children's physical safety, that they
shouldn't be worried. Not seven hours later, Jewish students on
campus received threats that said, ``If I see another Jew on
campus, I will stab you and slit your throat. If I see another
pig female Jew, I will drag you away, rape you, and throw you
off a cliff. Jews are human animal and deserve pig's death.
Liberation by any means, from the river to the sea, Palestine
will be free.'' Quote, ``Gonna shoot up 104 West,'' the kosher
dining hall. ``Glory to Hamas. Liberation by any means
necessary.''
That night, I sat in my locked house pondering my
mortality. I knew that with my roommates and I being openly
Jewish community leaders, our apartment would be one of the
first targets for someone looking to actualize the threats. I
thought back to the stories my mother told me growing up. I was
a young child. I found so much comfort in having the privilege
of being protected by a country built on a foundation of equal
opportunity and individual liberty.
Two days later, I got news that the threats were made by a
fellow student. This wasn't far away. It was at the same school
I worked my whole life to get into, the school I invested my
family's hard-earned life savings to attend, the school that
promised me they would uphold a community of belonging.
Universities have failed to uphold their self-proclaimed
values of equity and belonging when it comes to Jewish
students. The hypocrisy is glaring.
In light of horrific anti-Semitism, Jewish students on
campus have been courageous and resilient, but we shouldn't
need to be. American Jewish students on campus deserve better.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify.
[The statement of Ms. Dror follows:]
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[Applause.]
Chairman SMITH. Thank you for your brave testimony.
Mr. Lehman, you can now proceed.
STATEMENT OF ADAM LEHMAN, PRESIDENT & CEO, HILLEL INTERNATIONAL
Mr. LEHMAN. Thank you, Chairman Smith, Ranking Member Neal,
and distinguished members of the House Ways and Means
Committee. I am here today on behalf of Hillel International,
the largest Jewish student organization in the world with a
presence on more than 700 campuses in the United States.
Our top priority in this fraught moment is addressing the
frightening rise of anti-Semitism on college campuses. Really,
telling the story you just heard from Talia that is playing out
across the country.
Even before October 7, discrimination directed at Jewish
students has been rising at a very concerning rate. However,
since October 7, we have seen an unprecedented spike in
harassment, intimidation, hate, and even violence directed at
Jewish students. In the past five weeks, our Hillels have
reported 398 anti-Semitic incidents, a figure that includes 28
physical assaults. This level of anti-Semitic activity
represents more than a 700 percent increase--again, 700 percent
increase--from the record level a year before in the same
period.
In addition to the harrowing threats and issues that Talia
just described at Cornell, at other campuses Jewish students--
campuses from some of your own states--have been spit on, they
have been beaten with a Palestinian flagpole, they have been
physically assaulted for the crime of putting up a poster
remembering Israeli hostages. They have been threatened by
faculty members and subjected to an overwhelming onslaught of
hate speech and intimidation.
While some of this hate speech is encoded within chants
demonizing Israel and seeking its destruction that we have all
become far too immune to, Jewish students have also faced calls
to gas the Jews, kill the Jews, and that Jews are Nazis.
Let me be perfectly clear. We have no desire, as you all
share, to see anyone's free speech rights curtailed or their
academic freedom compromised. There should be space on campus
to debate about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and other
geopolitical issues, including space for those advocating on
behalf of both Israelis and Palestinians. But neither free
speech nor academic freedom is a free pass for the targeted
harassment, threats, discrimination, and violence being
directed at Jewish and Israeli students.
Hillels across the country are doing all we can to provide
additional security for their community spaces, wellness and
mental health support, and advocacy on behalf of our students.
And Jewish student leaders like Talia are displaying courage
and resilience in representing their communities and in
continuing to work to promote understanding and partnership
with other communities across campus. But Hillel professionals,
Chabad professionals, and student leaders cannot solve this
problem alone. They need--and they deserve--the same attention
and action from their universities that we would want for any
students facing this level of harassment and discrimination.
Specifically, we are calling on university leaders to act
firmly and swiftly in disciplining students, faculty, staff,
and student groups like students for Justice in Palestine that
are clearly violating university policies and, in many cases,
violating the law. We are calling on them to ensure that their
DEI departments address issues of anti-Semitism with the same
focus and force that they do for other forms of discrimination;
to regulate and rein in protest activities that are frequently
spawning grounds for harassment, intimidation, and even
violence; to invest in the added security protections that we
need in this moment; and to partner with Hillel and other
Jewish student organizations in ongoing efforts to eliminate
the bias and hostility we are describing.
At a governmental level, we appreciate truly the moral
clarity and expressions of support from both Congress and the
Administration for Israel in its just war against Hamas and for
Jewish Americans facing growing anti-Semitism.
That said, we respectfully request support in the following
three areas.
Number one, security. We urge you to immediately and
substantially expand the non-profit security grant program.
Number two, title 6 enforcement. We urge you to appropriate
supplemental funding to the Office of Civil Rights at the
Department of Education. We need them to have adequate
resources to investigate and pursue title 6 claims.
And, finally, to support and fund implementation of the
National Strategy to Counter Anti-Semitism.
Thank you for your consideration, and thank you for your
time.
[The statement of Mr. Lehman follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
Dr. Schanzer, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF JONATHAN SCHANZER, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT OF
RESEARCH, FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACIES (FDD)
Mr. SCHANZER. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member,
distinguished committee members, Hamas is alive and well in
America.
Over the last month, this country has seen an alarming
number of rallies, both in major cities and on college
campuses, expressing support for the terrorist organization.
Much of this activity, which I detail in my written testimony,
includes unabashed anti-Semitism, and even calls for genocide
against Israel. And a lot of this can be traced to a handful of
extremist groups, but two of them stand out in particular:
American Muslims for Palestine, AMP, and Students for Justice
in Palestine, SJP, a campus group that receives funding and
guidance and support from AMP.
Mr. Chairman, I worked at the U.S. Treasury Department in
the mid-2000s, and my colleagues and I disrupted several Hamas
charities that were operating here in America. I am talking
about the Holy Land Foundation, KindHearts, and the Islamic
Association for Palestine, also known as IAP. The case against
these groups, which provided financial and material support to
Hamas, is by now well known. More than a half dozen individuals
who previously worked for those Hamas charities now run
American Muslims for Palestine.
In my written testimony, I delve more deeply into the
network, but there are four figures that I would like to
highlight here today.
First is Osama Abuirshaid, who was the former editor of
IAP's newspaper. He is now AMP's executive director. He
regularly publishes articles promoting Hamas, including
communications with Hamas leaders. In 2014, Abuirshaid was
featured on the website of Hamas's self-declared military wing,
the al-Qassam Brigades.
Abdelbaset Hamayel, IAP's, former secretary general, is
identified in IRS filings as the person who possesses the
organization's books and records for AMP's fiscal sponsor,
Americans for Justice in Palestine Educational Foundation.
Today, he is active in AMP's Chicago chapter.
Salah Sarsour is a national AMP board member who previously
raised funds for the Holy Land Foundation. Today, he is
director of Americans for Justice in Palestine Educational
Foundation, again, the 501(c)(3) that is the fiscal sponsor of
AMP. In the 1990s, Sarsour spent eight months in an Israeli
jail for Hamas activity. He used a bank account from his
furniture store in Milwaukee to send money to a Hamas military
leader. Sarsour today owns a Wisconsin furniture store that
advertises and fundraises at AMP's annual conferences.
Finally, AMP's current chairman and SJP founder, Hatem
Bazian, also helped raise money for KindHearts in 2004.
These and other AMP figures are promoting pro-Hamas
sentiment across America today. AMP is lobbying legislators
here on Capitol Hill. Those Members of Congress include and are
not limited to Representatives Ilhan Omar, Rashida Tlaib, Jan
Schakowsky, Betty McCollum, Summer Lee, Bill Pascrell, Andre
Carson, and others.
AMP has built a network of activists that are tormenting
Jewish and pro-Israel students on college campuses nationwide.
Students for Justice in Palestine rallies are not spontaneous
expressions of student dissent. AMP's campus outreach
coordinator, Taher Herzallah, provides guidance and support to
SJP chapters and other extremist groups on campus.
Mr. Chairman, to summarize, the personnel, mission, goals,
donors, and infrastructure of AMP share a striking resemblance
to the Hamas charities that were dismantled here more than a
decade ago. This was not lost on the family of David Boim, an
American teenager killed by Hamas. The Boim family sued AMP,
alleging that AMP is the alter-ego of the Islamic Association
for Palestine. They say AMP is the same institution, fulfilling
the same functions, with the same goals of IAP merely operating
under a different name to avoid legal liabilities. I cannot
predict the outcome of that case, but I believe AMP is a hate
group with roots in Hamas fundraising organizations that were
shuttered for a reason.
AMP student networks who practice hate speech and incite
violence should not be allowed to operate on American college
campuses. AMP's lobby should not be welcomed on Capitol Hill.
I must ask, are U.S. intelligence and law enforcement
agencies working to answer the questions raised by the Boim
lawsuit?
Is this network of individuals that formerly worked for
Hamas-connected charities providing support for Hamas under a
different name?
I first brought this issue to Congress seven years ago. It
was around then that U.S. officials quietly conceded to me that
certain Hamas networks were protected sources in the fight
against ISIS. I sincerely hope this is no longer the case.
On behalf of Foundation for Defense of Democracies, thank
you for the opportunity to testify.
[The statement of Mr. Schanzer follows:]
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[Applause.]
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
Ms. Tishby, you are now recognized.
STATEMENT OF NOA TISHBY, BEST SELLING AUTHOR AND ISRAEL'S
FORMER SPECIAL ENVOY FOR COMBATTING ANTISEMITISM
Ms. TISHBY. Distinguished members, American universities
have become dangerous places for Jewish students. What is
taking place on U.S. campuses is not legitimate pro-Palestinian
activity but an aggressive assault on Jewish students, American
values, and the future of American society.
Jewish students are being harassed, threatened, and
attacked with violent rage. But we have exposed that this
violence did not happen overnight, nor is it a grassroots
movement. It has been planned, engineered, and incubated for
decades by heavily-funded, professionally-orchestrated groups
with close connections to terrorist organizations like Hamas,
Islamic Jihad, and PFLP.
One of the main perpetrators of campus Jew hate is Students
for Justice in Palestine, or SJP. SJP was set up and is
supported by groups with individuals with well-documented
records of support and fundraising for terrorist organizations,
individuals like Hatem Bazian, who founded SJP and is also the
founder of American Muslims for Palestine, or AMP.
Terrorist sympathizers figured out decades ago that,
instead of sending money to jihadi organizations, they will
target the hearts and minds of young and naive, sometimes well-
meaning, American students. They use progressive buzzwords like
``justice'' and ``freedom,'' but their true intent is
destroying the world's only Jewish state by all means
necessary. And, after October 7, we have seen that anything
goes. Beheading babies and raping women are just fine if it is
done for the Jews. They call it resistance. For decades, these
groups have lied to young Americans and convinced them that
Israel is the ultimate evil, so that when Hamas terrorists
carried out these barbaric acts, young, educated Americans
would minimize, justify, and even celebrate it.
Ladies and gentlemen, SJP is a hate group. It is grooming
American college students, grooming your children to hate
Israel, to hate America, and to hate Jews. And, for years,
universities stood by, watched this brainwashing take place,
and did nothing.
SJP hijacks any campus that it operates, and I use that
word deliberately. After all, this is the organization that
puts the Palestinian plane hijacker, Leila Khaled, on its tee
shirts.
These groups are not interested in peace. Just listen to
what they chant. There is only one solution: intifada
revolution. On our campuses, those with bad intent prey on
those with bad knowledge. Because we know what intifada
actually means, it means blowing up Jews on busses, or stabbing
us, shooting us, running us down, or slaughtering us like on
October 7. And so today, Jewish students are barricading
themselves in libraries, hiding from an angry, brainwashed mob.
Universities have let Jewish students down, and they are
letting America down.
Now, this is what we need to do about this.
First, we need to kick these groups--it is hate groups--off
of campus. How can it be that college fees and taxpayer dollars
are funding hate groups that cheers on the burning alive of
Jewish families? Every college in this country should ban SJP
and never let them back. We wouldn't fund KKK chapters in our
colleges. We shouldn't fund SJP chapters in our colleges,
either. [Applause.]
Ms. TISHBY. And, if universities fail to remove SJP off of
campus, if they continue to protect and fund the ringleaders of
an anti-Semitic mob, then this committee should withdraw
funding for them. We would not allow the mafia to teach
business on campus. We should not allow terrorist supporters to
teach political activism to our children.
Second, with the amount of evidence linking SJP and AMP
members with support and financing of terrorist groups,
including Hamas, these organizations and networks should be
investigated by state police and the FBI. The terrorists that
support--that are supported, they are the ones who committed
worldwide jihad, currently hold over 200 Israeli-Americans and
other countries' citizens hostages.
The time for criminal investigation is right now, which
brings me to my third and final point. How can groups that
spread this ideology on campus that should be under FBI
investigation enjoy a warm welcome in Congress?
Last month, not even three weeks after Hamas were
decapitating Jewish babies and raping young Jewish women and
girls, AMP were on the Hill lobbying Congress with their annual
Palestine Advocacy Day. How can congressmen and women take
donations from such a group? Members of this House should never
be funded from the same pot as murderous terrorists.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is not a Jewish issue. This is
an American one. There is a direct line between brainwashed
extremists who rip down posters of kidnaped Jewish children and
those who rip down the American flag ahead of Veterans Day.
I urge this committee to act now, stop this coordinated
assault on Jewish students, on American values, and on the
future of the American dream.
Thank you very much.
[The statement of Ms. Tishby follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[Applause.]
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
Mr. Greenblatt, you are now recognized.
STATEMENT OF JONATHAN GREENBLATT, CEO & NATIONAL DIRECTOR,
ANTI-DEFAMATION LEAGUE
Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you, Chairman Smith and Ranking
Member Neal, for inviting me to testify today. Thank you to my
friend Congressman Schneider, and so many members on both sides
of the aisle for your commitment to fighting anti-Semitism.
On October 7, the terrorist group Hamas committed mass
atrocities in Israel, murdering more than 1,200 individuals and
kidnaping, seizing over 200 babies, children, the elderly, the
disabled, and more.
In the wake of this massacre, the deadliest day for the
Jewish people since the Holocaust, the ADL has tracked a surge
of anti-Semitism around the world and right here in America in
public spaces, in workplaces, and indeed, on our college
campuses, even in K through 12 schools.
And it is getting worse. In the months since October the
7th, ADL tracked 832 anti-Jewish acts in the U.S. That is
almost 30 a day. Reports of incidences this year versus last
year were 316 percent higher.
And we know that campuses, college campuses, are a
microcosm of what the trends we are seeing globally. But they
have also become petri dishes where anti-Semitism is festering
and flourishing. As you heard from Talia ,we should all salute
her bravery and her courage with what she has had to deal with
every single day since October the 7th. [Applause.]
Mr. Greenblatt. But we have documented hundreds of anti-
Semitic incidents on campuses. We have seen residence halls
plastered with hateful messages. We have seen Jewish students
removed from student government because of their ``Zionism.''
And the list goes on.
But October the 7th brought some campuses to their knees
with a disturbing intensification of harassment, vandalism, and
violence. We tracked 234 anti-Israel and pro-Hamas rallies on
U.S. campuses, not calls for a two-state solution, not calls
for a one-state solution, these were calls for a final
solution. And these are serious incidents, which continue to
mount.
Just this past weekend, we saw at Ohio State two Jewish
students assaulted by attackers, slandering them with hateful
slurs that I am not going to repeat here for the session today.
At UMass Amherst last week, we saw a Jewish student assaulted
at an event honoring the hostages. And I am sure you have all
seen the clips of the Cooper Union, or Tulane, or Harvard, or
MIT, or UCLA, and I could go on and on and on. Many of these
incidents, indeed, as Jonathan pointed out and Noa, were
instigated, directed, and celebrated by Students for Justice in
Palestine.
Let me be clear. There is no world in which a person or an
organization should justify Hamas's war crimes and unspeakable
barbarities. So here in America, right here at home, we
shouldn't tolerate students being threatened or intimidated
because of their identity. No parent should ever have to ask
whether it is safe for their children to attend certain
universities.
This isn't a question of free speech. Don't let anyone tell
you that. Freedom of expression is not the freedom to incite
violence, period, full stop.
But the Jewish community, we will not cower in fear. We
will stand up and fight back. Three hundred thousand of us
gathered together yesterday on the Mall. And look at what
happened. No American flags were torn down. They were raised.
People sang the national anthem. There were people wearing MAGA
hats and pride flags marching together in this place on this
issue. It was inspiring. That is what America looks like, and
that is what our Jewish community looks like.
So----
[Applause.]
Mr. GREENBLATT [continuing]. To the question of where do we
go from here, Congress, you have a role to play, and you can
send an unequivocal message. And I will give you four ideas.
Number one, pass comprehensive legislation to implement the
National Strategy to Counter Anti-Semitism. The White House
deserves praise for what they have done. Now hold them
accountable to make sure the job gets done.
Number two, pass an emergency supplemental bill, aid bill,
to Israel that includes funding for the non-profit security
grants that so many of you have fought hard to make sure our
synagogues and our schools are kept safe.
Number three, urge governmental authorities, the FBI and
the IRS, to look at and conduct a thorough review of these
organizations like AMP and SJP that you have heard about today.
And finally, ensure the Department of Education has
adequate personnel and resources to enforce title 6. But don't
wait. Push them to be proactive in conducting investigations,
rather than just waiting for them to be worked through.
Thank you again for the bipartisan presence here today.
Thank you for holding this hearing, and I look forward to
answering your questions.
[The statement of Mr. Greenblatt follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[Applause.]
Chairman SMITH. I want to thank you all again for your
amazing testimony. We will now proceed to the question-and-
answer session with the members of the committee. I will start.
Ms. Dror, we have seen the news reports. We have seen
social media videos. But you have lived the nightmare on
Cornell's campus over these past few weeks. You even had to
endure a faculty member at your university calling the murder
of well over 1,000 people in Israel ``exhilarating.'' What has
the university done to protect you and other Jewish students in
the face of the threats made?
And has the university's response been as swift and sincere
as you have seen with other issues?
Ms. DROR. Absolutely. First of all, thank you so much for
your question.
Directly after the death threats were made, I would say in
the span of two hours, one of the strongest statements I have
seen was immediately released condemning anti-Semitism,
condemning violence against religious minorities. It was a very
strong statement, and Jewish students on campus were very
grateful to the administration to receive that unconditional
support.
Since then, I am also aware of heightened security in all
Jewish facilities on campus. That includes the kosher dining
hall, the Hillel offices, the Center for Jewish Living, the
Chabad House, and we are very appreciative of that, as well.
We have received direct support from the university in
attending Shabbat dinners. Governor Kathy Hochul attended the
kosher dining hall the morning after the threats were made. And
all of that support has been sincerely appreciated by the
Jewish community.
My question is, why didn't we receive it right after the
October 7 attacks? Why did it take a direct threat to murder,
rape, and slaughter Jews on campus to get support from our
administration? It should have come way earlier. It was an
oversight on behalf of the university administration. We
sincerely appreciate all of their help now. But it is too
little, too late.
That said, a lot of the other people on this panel have
spoken about Students Justice for Palestine. Cornell has a
chapter, as well. They have formed a coalition, along with
other student groups on our campus, who have made demands to
the university including demands to divest from all Israel-
related expenditures on campus. However, one of their demands
was particularly interesting. It was to reduce all police
presence on campus. Two weeks after the Jewish community
received death threats, they wanted to reduce all police
presence on campus. That is what they asked from the
university.
So I absolutely second the statements of everyone made on
this panel and appreciate it.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
Dr. Schanzer, we know the hateful attacks we are seeing on
Jewish students at college campuses is not occurring in a
vacuum. Can you help us take a step back and explain the
financing, including the role of 501(c)(3)s and 501(c)(4)s here
in the U.S. that generate resources that are used in some cases
to support outright terrorist groups like Hamas from within the
U.S.?
Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The cases that I
discussed in my testimony, both spoken and written, addressed
three charities that have been exploited by Hamas here in this
country. It was quite an effort to track them down back in the
2000s.
My concern right now is that America's focus has shifted
over the last decade or so. First it was ISIS, then it was
Russia, then it was China. My concern right now is that we have
taken our eye off the ball. I am not aware of significant
efforts within the U.S. Government to track Hamas over the last
10 years. Yes, over the last month, we have seen a significant
uptick, and justifiably so. My fear, though, is that we have
had 10 years of just a blind spot as it relates to Hamas.
Perhaps other groups as well. As you know, the U.S. Government
has pivoted away from what used to be known as the global war
on terror as we have now shifted into what we now describe as
great power competition.
It is my belief, my strong belief, that we need to learn
how to walk and chew gum here. We are going to continue to see
terrorist attacks against the United States and our allies.
Unfortunately, I think this is just a reality. We need to make
sure that we have the resources within the bureaucracy to
tackle these problems while addressing the threats of Russia
and China and others.
Chairman SMITH. Ms. Tishby, as you know, the disgusting
show of support for the terrorist goals of Hamas are appearing
on college campuses, including the phrase, ``From the river to
the sea, Palestine will be free'' being displayed on a building
at the University of Pennsylvania.
As someone who has been an advocate for Israel focused on
expanding other people's knowledge of your country, can you
speak to how these displays of support for Hamas go beyond just
some harmless college campus activism?
Ms. TISHBY. Absolutely, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much for
the question.
So we can definitely see how, when you support a massacre
that occurred in Israel, you will encourage violence in the
United States. That is kind of--that goes without saying, and
it is a dog whistle to their supporters.
We have seen the attacks on college students and beyond.
There was a kid in Tulane University that was hospitalized with
a broken--with broken bones for supporting Israel, being in a
rally, in a pro-Israel rally. There was--Paul Kessler from Los
Angeles was killed for holding an Israeli flag.
So there is incitement for violence that is immediately
preceded by violence. And we see this in the uptake in anti-
Semitic attacks and rhetoric, we see this online and offline.
There is no question that these two things are directly related
and connected.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you. I now recognize the ranking
member, Mr. Neal, for his questions.
Mr. NEAL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As an academic, I want
to thank Ms. Dror for being here today. I know how difficult it
is for students to step forward. And I know the strength that
has brought you here today and are indeed grateful for your
testimony.
Let me move to you, Mr. Greenblatt. How does the ADL, which
is well regarded and always has been, believe that
administrators, faculty, community members can more effectively
respond to hateful speech, including anti-Semitic and, indeed,
hostile speech on campus?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you for your question, Congressman
Neal. I think there are a few things to consider, and I would
say right off the bat that the ADL has been fighting for civil
rights for 110 years. We are ferocious advocates for the First
Amendment.
But, as I noted earlier, freedom of speech is not the
freedom to slander people, right? Freedom to talk about ideas
is not the freedom to threaten people based on their identity.
But there are steps we could see university administrators
take.
So, number one, they should speak up forcefully and condemn
anti-Semitism without any equivocation, without any
qualification. Talia kind of alluded to this. It should be
simple and straightforward to say anti-Semitism is wrong,
period, and not encumber it with other issues.
Number two, rigorously enforce disciplinary rules. The
issues that I mentioned--and others--rarely have students been
penalized. And it creates an environment where people feel like
they can operate with impunity. But, if you break the rules,
there should be consequences.
Look, and I will be clear, I don't believe in cancel
culture. I don't believe in canceling people for every imagined
micro-aggression for, you know, for mislabeling someone. But I
do believe in consequence culture. And if you issue death
threats to a student, guess what? There will be a knock on your
door from the FBI, you will be arrested, and you should be
expelled. That should not be so hard.
Now, we have seen some administrators step up. Today GW
announced they were suspending the SJP chapter for violating
the conduct code at GW. It happened last week at Columbia
University. At Brandeis, they actually expelled them. But I
don't think there should be a place on any campus for
organizations like SJP that threaten people based on their
ethnicity or faith or nationality.
Thirdly, investigate these groups and try to understand
where the funding coming from, try to make sense of how are
they getting their resources.
And finally, we think all of these universities should set
up task forces to come up with plans to tackle this issue. The
University of Pennsylvania was just mentioned by the chairman.
The response there has been lacking for months. Harvard
University dragged its feet. Columbia the same, and I could go
on and on. Task forces with short timelines to come up with a
plan is long overdue.
Mr. NEAL. And let me say as well with the ADL, the ADL has
a long history of condemning violations of everybody's civil
rights.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Correct.
Mr. NEAL. We are indeed grateful for your testimony today
and the plan that you have outlined.
I yield back my time.
Thank you, Mr. Greenblatt.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Smith is recognized.
Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you
to our witnesses.
Certainly, the entire committee here--these are important
issues that we address, and today's hearing brings together two
very important items of bipartisan interest on this committee:
anti-Semitism and the tax status of college endowments.
While we may not agree on every detail, I believe there is
strong bipartisan support for ensuring the Federal tax benefits
provided to the non-profit education sector are utilized for
their intended purposes--that doesn't sound unreasonable, but--
ensuring access to the education and training needed for every
American to be career-ready.
We did some important work to that end in the Tax Cuts and
Jobs Act, and I know some of my friends on the other side of
the dais have ideas to address that issue, as well. One
important aspect of this is ensuring educational institutions
utilizing these tax benefits are both respecting true academic
freedom while also ensuring all students have a safe--a safe
learning environment. Not unreasonable.
As we have unfortunately seen on campuses across the
country, as some recent protests have quickly turned to
intimidation, harassment, threats and violence, some
universities have cited the First Amendment to explain their
inaction. This is interesting, given that for years
universities have failed to protect the free speech rights of
students unless they approve of the speech. These universities
practice a policy of preferred speech, as mentioned before, not
free speech. And, of course, the threats of violence and
intimidation we have seen on campuses of late are not protected
speech.
The Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression, as
mentioned earlier, is known as FIRE, F-I-R-E, has helped to
explain the difference: ``Violence is never protected by the
First Amendment.'' Another quote, ``Physically confining
students within a given space is likewise unlawful.'' Another
quote, ``Just as violence is unprotected, so too are true
threats and intimidation.''
The failure of some universities to distinguish between
protected speech and unlawful conduct is truly disappointing.
As the chairman noted, this is a leading reason so many
colleges and universities have received horrible ratings from
the foundation called FIRE when it comes to free speech.
Question. Mr. Lehman, you said in your written testimony,
``I understand the needs and protections for academic freedom
and free speech, but those freedoms are not a license to create
an environment of harassment, bullying, and threats for Jewish
students or for any students.'' So my question is, what--can
you give us a tangible, perhaps, description of what a
university's responsibility is to keep their students safe from
activity that clearly goes beyond what some are saying is free
speech?
Mr. LEHMAN. Thank you, Congressman Smith. And I think we
have to continue to go back to this very clear distinction.
Free speech, academic freedom on the one side, cannot,
should not, and never should be allowed to enable targeted
harassment, inciting violence and other forms of intimidation
that are directed at individual students. And that is exactly
what is happening in the examples that you have heard.
One area that we have really not talked a lot about, but I
think helps to create this very pervasive environment of
hostility and intimidation is in the classroom itself. During
this period of five weeks at Stanford, we had a professor in a
class herd Jewish students into the corner of the classroom
without their belongings and say, ``This is what it feels like
to be a Palestinian.'' That is what is happening in the
classroom, where other faculty who are--as they go on their
diatribes against, in their words, ``the evil settler colonial
state of Israel,'' then say to their students, ``By the way, if
you go to that Students for Justice in Palestine rally, I will
give you extra credit, and if you don't you will basically get
a demerit.'' So this is a broad-based cultural issue on
campuses. It is obviously broken in terms of this aspect of
campus culture.
And, in terms of what can be done, you have heard a lot of
great ideas, but fundamentally we needed administrators to
actually take disciplinary action. And I am sorry to say it,
but too often our universities are acting in equivocating ways
and not being firm. Just go ahead and terminate that faculty
member when they cross the line. Go ahead and expel that
student when they harass or, even worse, assault another
student. If we get the disciplinary action, I can tell you at
Hillel we continue to actually work the other side of this
equation. And thankfully, we do have many campus colleagues,
administrators who are working with us on educating their staff
on anti-Semitism and beyond.
But, bottom line, we need action, and that is what we are
looking for.
Mr. SMITH of Nebraska. Thank you, I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Doggett is recognized.
Mr. DOGGETT. Well, thank you so much, and thanks for the
moving testimony that each of you have presented.
The activities and the incidents that you describe are
totally unacceptable and alarming. People who fail to
unequivocally condemn the Hamas atrocities immediately just
don't have much credibility with me, personally.
Mr. Lehman, I appreciate these three specific
recommendations you made, all of which seem to be reasonable. I
know Mr. Greenblatt referred to the security grants, which have
been helpful to a number of places in my community.
In Austin, the only city I have ever called home, ADL has
been a force for good for decades, and I know you have worked
to combat the very kind of prejudice and hate that has been the
focus here today, whether it was directed at Jews or any other
segment of the community.
A couple of years ago, sadly, in my community we had a
spate of anti-Semitic events.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes.
Mr. DOGGETT. A banner hung from a highway, some leaflets
and crude fliers, and it all culminated in a young man who set
fire to Temple Beth Israel in our community. It was alarming
because we take pride on tolerance and diversity in our
community.
But one of the most moving and hopeful events after that
was when a group of women, including many ADL members, Jewish
women, organized a rally for kindness at the state capitol that
I attended. And perhaps the most moving part of that event was
a Muslim imam who stepped forward to present a check to the
rabbi of Temple Beth, even though Muslims had nothing to do
with the event, and to offer support and recognition of the
importance of all faiths working together.
I thought of that incident the other night, as I was
watching cable television, and saw Rabbi Marc Schneier and Imam
Shamsi Ali discussing the tragic situation we find ourselves in
today. The Imam said that, ``For me, anti-Semitism is my fight,
as he,'' referring to the rabbi, ``has taken Islamophobia for
his fight. You know, we advance our common humanity that,
despite our differences, we have even more in common. We
deserve dignity. We deserve respect. We deserve peace and
reconciliation. And I think the war is shared by each and every
one of us.''
And the rabbi responded by noting that they were going to
every university in New York in each borough to spread the same
message. Protest, demonstrate, do whatever you want, but don't
cross the line.
It seems to me that is where we need to be moving, to try
to overcome the anger and the grief, to recognize that
Islamophobia is just as wrong as anti-Semitism, to recognize
that it cheapens and weakens efforts to unite us against anti-
Semitism when that term, anti-Semitism, is wielded as a
political weapon.
Criticism of Israel, very harsh criticism of Israel and
Benjamin Netanyahu is not any more anti-Semitic than the voices
of thousands of Israelis who were filling the streets of
Jerusalem protesting Netanyahu before October 7. And support
for Israel has always been strongest in this country when it is
genuinely bipartisan.
While deplorable anti-Semitic activities have been on the
rise, certainly, there have also been troubling acts and hate
speech against Muslim students across the country, as reported
in university newspapers. Particularly vulnerable have been
Muslim women who choose to wear the hijab. At the University of
Texas in Austin, the disruption of a Palestinian meeting, at
Yale, a Death to Palestine sign, here at American University, a
death threat to a Palestinian university employee, and, at
Stanford, a hit and run is being investigated as a hate crime
against a Muslim.
I think the pain and the grief and the anger of many who
have seen children murdered by Hamas is not really very
dissimilar from the anger that I am hearing from those who see
children killed in Gaza. It doesn't mean they are equal. It
means the hurt is the same, and the inability to feel the pain
of the other because the pain is so very deep for that
individual.
We need more rabbis and imams and people of all faiths that
are working together to try to heal the divide. And I salute
your efforts to contribute not to us today, not only about
anti-Semitism, but this need to heal as we move forward.
I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Kelly is recognized.
Mr. KELLY. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you all for being
here today.
It wasn't too long ago--in fact, it was October of 2018--in
the neighborhood where my mother grew up, was a horrific
killing at the Tree of Life. Eleven were killed and six were
wounded. Squirrel Hill. Now, it was hard for me to believe that
my mother, growing up in that neighborhood and being one of the
nine members of the McTighe family, would ever be in a
neighborhood where people fostered hate.
But, you know, we keep seeing this go on and on and on and
on, and while we have these nice paragraphs of what it is that
we talk about and where it is that we think it needs to end, it
finishes up with the final paragraph. I can't imagine what it
is like for all of you to sit here today and have to defend
your faith. Not in some far off land, but right in America,
where these are the very things we champion.
And, when we talk about ivory towers, the University of
Pennsylvania, quite honestly, would be glad to tell you how
great they are. They will tell you how welcoming they are, and
how they are the greatest educational institution there is.
However, the University of Pennsylvania Poetry Festival, it
hosted a rogues' gallery of speakers who expressed unambiguous
anti-Semitism and hostility towards the Jewish people. All this
was hosted on the weekend of the holiest day in Judaism, Yom
Kippur.
Now, if somebody tells me this is just a coincidence, and
we sit here and we talk about it, and we talk about it, and we
condone it by our inactivity towards it, in our condemnation of
it--look, I am from an Irish background. When the Irish came
here, they looked at windows to try and get a job and it said,
``Irish need not apply.'' Each one of our peoples have gone
through something at some time or another. But the Jewish
people, it is endless. It never stops.
We have people in the highest positions of education
opening their doors to this type of behavior and saying, no,
you must understand, we need to hear both sides of this until
it is that we put our fingers in our ears and close our eyes to
what happens to the Jewish people, and open our hearts and
minds and wallets, and give access to our universities--and
championed by the very professors who teach our children. And
these are the people? These are the people who we want our kids
to follow? These are the people of higher education? These are
the people who stand above those who don't have the same
education, and yet this is what they sponsor? Are you kidding
me? Are you kidding me?
I can't imagine, Ms. Dror, what you have gone through. I
can't imagine what you go through time after time after time.
And people keep telling me we need to do something about it.
Well, it is far past the time to do something about it and
actually do something about it. Why would we continue to fund
these universities with taxpayer dollars?
Why, Mr. Lehman, if you can, if you can help me to
understand this, because it is beyond anything I can grasp
anymore because I wasn't raised this way, what in the heck is
wrong with these people?
And I don't--listen. I am never going to stand up and say,
well, you know, Hamas, they have a reason to be like this.
Bull. They have no reason to do what they did on October 7,
they have no reason to do what they continue to do to the
Jewish people. And for us to stand back and say, well, we
should probably cut funding to them, we should probably try to
act in some way, I am tired of a United States that sits and
watches what happens and condemns it but doesn't do anything
with its actions. Actions speak harder than words.
Tell me, sir, what do you think we should be able to do,
and especially--this is the tax-writing policy center, right?
Mr. LEHMAN. Yes.
Mr. KELLY. Why do we continue to fund these people?
Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, thank you, Congressman Kelly. And my wife
grew up a mile from the Tree of Life Synagogue. [Applause.]
Mr. LEHMAN. She and I were married a mile from the Tree of
Life Synagogue. We feel the pain of that community, and we do
not want to see, as you said, that replicated, God forbid, on a
college campus. And, if we don't act, if we don't collectively
find a way, as you said, to heal these communities, to
eradicate the hate that we are allowing to fester, we will see
it.
So I know I only have a few seconds to respond here, but,
bottom line--and it is not dissimilar from what Mr. Doggett
said, as well. All hate is a problem, but we should not turn a
blind eye to the fact that we have sanctioned and universities
have sanctioned allowing this very specific form of hate
against Israel, a demonization that goes beyond anything one
can imagine unless you are sitting on campus listening to it
day in and day out, and a hate that says, when you are Jewish,
it is okay to have this kind of discrimination pointed your
way.
We can do better. Some of us are working very hard, and you
all--we gave recommendations. If you stand behind those,
whether it is tax-based--title 6, by the way, it is a huge way
to drive accountability. Universities feel that pain. So these
are the steps we need to take.
And again, I thank you for your passion.
Mr. KELLY. Thank you. I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Thompson.
Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, thank
you for having this committee hearing today. And I want to
thank all the witnesses for being here. I am extremely grateful
that you are here and that you are speaking out against this
dreadful behavior of hate. I appreciate the heartfelt testimony
you have all offered, and I want to echo, along with my
colleagues, in condemning anti-Semitism in all of its forms.
The attacks on Israel were pure evil. And the victims, the
hostages, survivors, and their families are in all of our
prayers. The Hamas terrorists are barbaric, and they must not
be allowed to further harm human beings or to terrorize
communities. And I am certainly open to exploring how this
committee can help combat anti-Semitism, and we had a little
preview of that today on the floor. I was proud to vote for the
amendment that I think everybody here voted for today.
The testimony we have heard today is saddening and it is
maddening. These activities should not be happening, and they
can't be tolerated.
I want to thank you all. I am sorry that you have--you are
having to experience the pain and the tragic behavior that you
are seeing on campuses.
And I would ask, Mr. Chairman--wherever he is, whoever the
chairman is at this point--that we do a joint bipartisan letter
to the FBI and the IRS asking for that review that was
suggested in the testimony. [Applause.]
Mr. KELLY [presiding]. I really don't need a mic because--
especially talking about subjects--thank you, thanks so much.
Mr. THOMPSON. You missed your chance. The chairman is back
now. [Laughter.]
Mr. KELLY. Yes, I saw that. I thought that was----
Mr. THOMPSON. If we could do a joint letter, I am sure
that----
Mr. KELLY. Absolutely.
Mr. THOMPSON [continuing]. Both sides would sign that, and
I think it would be helpful. And if we could get an agreement
to do that, thank you, I yield back.
Mr. KELLY. Yes, sir.
Chairman SMITH [presiding]. Mr. Schweikert is recognized.
Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I apologize to
the members and our witnesses. We are running multiple
committees up and down but care an awful lot about this.
I also have a concern. And Dr. Schanzer, some of this was
directed to you, and that is have we created a scenario here
where even parts of our own tax code, whether it be the ability
to use certain pre-tax dollars, run them through what is
supposed to be a charitable shell, and through the movement of
those monies we are actually functionally financing evil,
whether it be coming back to our universities or around the
world?
And it is a running concern on the mechanisms within, you
know, 501(c)(4)s, certain designs, the way we actually do not
get as much information on those who get the value of a non-
profit.
You have an expertise on terrorism finance. How much
leakage from this country is actually leaking in to violence
and functionally dystopian evil in the world?
Mr. SCHANZER. Congressman Schweikert, thank you for the
question. It is a very good one.
I will say this, that, in the 2000s, at the height of the
war on terror, we were doing a very good job of making sure
that the non-profit sector was not leaking into the world of
terrorism. In the last 10 or 12 years, we have seen a
significant drop-off in actions taken against 501(c)(3)s here
at home. And I think it has a lot to do with the bandwidth of
our system, and I am sure that those men and women who are
working in law enforcement are doing a great job on a range of
other challenges, but I think we have probably lost the scent
on a lot of them.
And I can tell you that there are a handful that we are
watching right now. There is one organization that is openly
gloating right now about sending money and other assistance to
the Gaza ministry of health. The Gaza ministry of health is run
by Hamas. I am talking here about an organization known as
Pious Projects. It is based out of Illinois. No one knows. No
one is watching. This is, I think, a major issue.
And, by the way, it could be supporting al-Qaeda, it could
be supporting ISIS. We don't know. And I think we need to get
back in the business of tracking these 501(c)(3)s.
Mr. SCHWEIKERT. Doctor, so in our hierarchy of hell, how
much of it is a leakage of NGOs? How much of it is a leakage of
those using what we actually reach out and thought we were
creating within the tax code, the incentive to use pre-tax
money to do charitable good? And how much of it is actually--do
you believe, from your expertise, leakage of where even the
U.S. taxpayers are directly attempting to try to provide
humanitarian assistance?
Help me understand, you know----
Mr. LEHMAN. Look, it is all--these are all good questions.
And I think right now they are hypotheticals because we don't
have the people working on it the way that we used to. And this
is the great frustration, right?
We used to have--the Treasury Department, where I used to
work, used to track non-profits here in the United States and
abroad. Now, they don't do anything here at home. They only
deal with terror finance abroad. This leaves it into the hands
of the Department of Justice and the FBI, who have their hands
full right now on a range of other things that are keeping
America, let's just say, very busy, right?
So we have got, I think, a huge challenge here. I think
there should be, number one, investigations into non-profits
that could be supporting terrorism. And we have talked about a
few of them today.
But I think there also should be--and I would welcome
this--there should be regulations that, if you have worked for
a charity that has given money to a terrorist organization in
the past, that should be flagged. Americans need to know who
they are giving their non-profit dollars to. And, if they
don't, they run the risk of possibly supporting something that
they don't want to support.
Mr. SCHANZER. Can I make a recommendation? Donor advised
funds--Schwab, Vanguard--these are the largest charitable
organizations in the United States. Their leadership should be
brought in to ensure that they are not funneling funds to these
terror-supporting organizations.
Mr. SCHWEIKERT. You would be happy to know the chairman and
a couple of our members here who actually sit on Intelligence,
we have had side conversations on charitable giving, pre-tax
monies, those things, and how we make sure it is doing good in
the world and not ultimately financing evil.
And with that, Mr. Chairman, thank you for your patience, I
yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Blumenauer is recognized.
Mr. BLUMENAUER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
opportunity for our friends today to express their deep
concern, and to focus perhaps on some steps that we can take.
I am absolutely convinced that this horrific set of
circumstances that we have been thrust into in Israel dealing
with Gaza is--that we are at a pivotal point. I have been in
Congress 27 years. I have been in Congress 27 years. I have
reluctantly decided to leave you folks to solve things in the
future. But this is something that just haunts me.
My first visit to Israel, I had a chance to go to Ramallah
at a police station. And there were two people in command. One
was Israeli, one was Palestinian. And there was this sense of
hope and optimism. Hamas decided that they were going to turn
away from that and have been working ever since, actively
undermining it.
And I have heard all the arguments. I understand the
legitimate concerns of Palestinians. I have watched settlers
scream at us on the West Bank. But the time, I think, at this
point is for us to focus on things that can bring us together,
on simple steps. There is no excuse for tolerating violence.
Freedom of speech is not a get-out-of-jail-free card to be able
to abuse others. And everybody, I think, has a role to play in
moving this forward.
I am still shaken from a conversation I had, a Zoom meeting
with constituents of mine who have had relatives taken hostage.
And just listening to that circumstance, that pain, that
uncertainty is just overwhelming.
And I know that there are strong feelings. We all
understand that. But coming forward with some specifics to be
able to elevate concerns and think about things that we can do
going forward--I appreciate Mr. Thompson's suggestion--and we
have an expression, a combined expression that is positive.
I hope that we don't have to continue to make clear that
anti-Semitism has no role on campus or in American society, but
I hope that we are committed to being able to find some things
that actually bring us together. And you have made some
suggestions today that are part of that.
This is, for me, exceedingly painful because I remember on
my first visit to Israel that sense of hope and optimism. And
we know, ultimately, we need to have a two-state solution. And
I have heard too many young Israelis and Palestinians tell me
they think it is still a good idea, but they have given up
hope. And I don't think we can afford to give up hope. And you
have helped us today, I think, frame part of these issues. You
haven't given up hope, and I appreciate your joining us.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. LaHood is recognized.
Mr. LaHOOD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for having this
hearing today, and I want to thank all of the witnesses for
your passion and your courage and your commitment and
dedication to this issue. It is very important to have your
voices here today.
Obviously, the barbaric terrorist attacks by Hamas on
Israel last month have been devastating to witness, and it is
imperative that the United States continue to make clear that
we stand with Israel, our number-one ally in the Middle East
and the only democracy, and also the Jewish people.
As the title of this hearing suggests, part of that effort
needs to be looking under the hood here in the United States
and ensuring that U.S. entities, especially those that benefit
from U.S. taxpayer dollars and tax-exempt status, are not
contributing to these unconscionable acts.
Since the start of these attacks, it is infuriating and
unbelievable and really sad to see the rise in anti-Semitism
and targeted, hateful speech occurring across the United
States, with some of the worst instances occurring in our
colleges and our universities. While we have finally started to
see more university leaders state outright that these efforts
will not be tolerated on their campuses, much of the damage has
already been done.
Moreover, the delay in many colleges and universities
speaking out against these organized student groups has only
fueled the spread of lies, harmful rhetoric, and coordinated
activities that have incited violence and ostracized countless
Jewish students, faculty, alumni, and community members. This
shouldn't happen in America.
Ms. Tishby, I have a question for you. As we look at the
language and the distortion and the tropes and the
misconceptions that have been used on many of our campuses, can
you talk about some of the examples of these being used against
Israel?
Ms. TISHBY. Oh, well, thank you so much for this question.
There are so many I don't even know where to start.
So the tactic that they use is, first of all, branding
Israel an apartheid state and delegitimize Israel's standing in
the world. So they are trying to convince young and naive
college students that Israel is--is it a real state, or is it a
colonialist settler endeavor that needs to be dismantled?
They would use words like ethnic cleansing and genocide.
They are actually convincing college kids--there are people
right now that are watching me, maybe at home, that actually
are convinced that Israel is committing an ethnic cleansing of
the Palestinians. This is--Representative, this is a blood
libel. This is absolutely not true.
And the worst lie of all that they are using--and they are
doing it in a very sophisticated, kind of like progressive
language, right--the worst lie is denying the indigeneity of
the Jewish people to the land of Israel. They are actually
saying that Israel does not have a claim, the Jews have no
claim to the land. This is a--you don't need to believe in the
Bible, the New Testament, the Old Testament, or the Koran, you
need to just know history and believe in archeology and
science.
So these are--this is the tactic that they use. They are
convincing--they have confiscated the word Zionism. They have
turned the word Zionism into a bad word, into a slur, as if it
is--you say the word ``Zionism,'' and people are, like, oh my
God, I am triggered. Why are you triggered by the Jewish
people's right to have a state? You shouldn't be triggered by
that. That should be the most common--this is a human rights
issue. Nothing more, nothing less. And this is the tactic that
they use.
And I will give a pass to a lot of these followers of SJP,
a lot of these students on college campus. They don't
understand that they are being played. They--because SJP
doesn't come to them and says flat out, ``Would you like to
join an organization that is about to dismantle a democracy?''
They don't say that. They say, you know, freedom, and justice,
and they use all these words, and they basically trick students
to follow them.
And the worst part is the indigeneity of the Jewish people.
This needs to stop. We need to expose them.
Mr. LaHOOD. Well, thank you for that. And it leads to my
next point, I guess. It seems like many of these student groups
and these organizations are masking behind social justice
terminology. Can you talk a little bit about that?
Ms. TISHBY. Absolutely, they do. So they will kind of,
again, mask their language. I call it cloaking the dagger. So
when they talk about occupation, right, a lot of people tend to
think, especially people that understand this term, they think
occupation '67. They would think the West Bank and two states,
and it is kind of like murky, right?
They are not hiding what they are talking about right now.
They are chanting, ``We don't want 2 states, we want '48.'' So
they are talking about the entirety of the state of Israel,
right? They use, obviously, ``From the river to the sea,
Palestine will be free,'' it talks about the Jordan River to
the Mediterranean Sea, ethnically cleansing the Jews from their
ancestral land.
I don't understand how Representative Rashida Tlaib says
that they are--this is a call for freedom. I don't understand
how you can understand that line, ``from the river to the sea,
Palestine will be free,'' in any other way, other than cleaning
the Jews out of this land.
So everything that they say is calling what they say
resistance by all means possible, even after October 7. So that
means resistance by beheading babies and raping women and
girls, because that is what they say. And we need to expose
this.
And I would really hope that college-age kids would listen
to this and pause for a second before they join in these
organizations that are not progressive organizations, they are
not human rights organizations. They are hate groups that are
intended on dismantling the single, consistent democracy in the
entire Middle East and the greatest ally of the United States
in the region. We have to stop them. [Applause.]
Mr. LaHOOD. My time is expired, thank you.
Ms. TISHBY. Thank you.
Chairman SMITH. Dr. Wenstrup is recognized.
Mr. WENSTRUP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all
very much for being here today.
You know, the actions taken on October 7 seemingly were
unimaginable. Yet something, unfortunately, I contend,
predictable, sadly. This was not for defense of someone's
families. It was not for love of a culture or heritage, but for
a hate of one singular ethnic group. Complete hatred. It was
mentioned today the final solution. They are not talking about
a solution, a two-state solution. It is their final solution.
Maybe this is by the grace of God, but we were cleaning the
house and a picture frame opened up in the back, an old
newspaper came out, and I am going to submit this article for
the record from April 1994.
Chairman SMITH. Without objection.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. WENSTRUP. It is an AP piece in the Cincinnati Enquirer:
``Troops leave, stones lobbed.'' These are troops leaving Gaza
in 1994. So, ``even though the moving was a visible sign of
Israel's intent to leave, Palestinian youths with slingshots
lobbed stones that bounce off the walls and the olive drab
jeeps, youths screaming, we don't want peace. There will be
stones every day, shouted the youths, many aligned with the
Islamic fundamentalist Hamas group that opposes the Israel-PLO
peacemaking process.''
There it is. It is 30 years later. Now they are middle-
aged. They are fighting age. This is the very root of this, and
I am glad we are talking about things that the United States
can do, and that we can do in the region, and everything else.
But this is the root cause. But now I am concerned that very
hatred that is taught, obviously, from the day they are born is
happening here, and happening in our universities. It is the
upbringing of hatred.
We talk about the FBI and the IRS, and those are some
things we can certainly do. We talk about national strategy.
Should we have a national strategy? We should. I contend we
should make sure we sanction and cut off any type of funding
from anywhere in the world, including within our own country,
that in some way, shape, or form ends up in the hands of Hamas.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
Mr. WENSTRUP. We can do that. We, the United States, can do
that, and we need to do that.
I am concerned about our universities. This is terrible.
Every one of us has universities near us, and we send our kids
to universities. This is not the type of thing I was taught
growing up, that is for sure.
So I have seen in Florida--and I would like to associate
myself with the questions of Mr. LaHood and to you, Ms.
Tishby--when Florida is shutting down chapters of SJP, what
kind of an effect is that having--will that have, do we think--
as far as maybe changing the tenor and the mindset?
Ms. TISHBY. Well, that was a blessed moment. You know, we
all appreciated that a lot, because we have been doing this
work for a very long time. And we really appreciate--all of us
on this bench really appreciate that you are all here and are
listening.
There are hundreds of examples of how SJP harasses students
on college campus. At GW, they screened on the wall, ``Glory to
our martyrs'' right after the massacre, right?
And I want to make sure, by the way, that we know that this
is not a little terrorist attack. This is not 5, 4, 6, 19
terrorists. This was a battalion of 3,000 militant terrorists,
psychopaths that have attacked Israel. ``Glory to our
martyrs,'' to the same people who opened up a woman's belly
when she is pregnant and pulled out her fetus.
The University of North Carolina, they chanted, ``We are
all Hamas.'' This is what SJP does on campus. Just like terror,
they terrorize Jewish kids on campus. They terrorize Jewish
kids on campus. They make them afraid. The reason Talia is so
brave is because she knows that to be a person who is a
Zionist, who is Jewish, who is an American, a Christian, or a
Muslim, anybody who supports Israel on campus, you will get
terrorized. This is what they do. And we need to stop this.
And I want to commend you again for being here, because we
know what it is like to be a kid on campus. This is being with
the not cool crowd. This is being pushed out of the ``cool
spaces.'' So we need to give her--applaud and actually make it
great again to support Israel, and to support and be a proud
Zionist. And again, all of you here, we are really grateful for
what you are doing. And with the help of the good Lord, we
will--and you--kick SJP off of every campus in America and
around the world. [Applause.]
Mr. WENSTRUP. And we support freedom of religion, period.
It is in our Constitution.
Ms. TISHBY. Absolutely, absolutely.
Mr. WENSTRUP. And I will tell you, this government sends a
lot of money to universities. I will leave it at that.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
Mr. Pascrell.
Mr. PASCRELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks to each of
the panelists.
The barbaric acts and attacks by Hamas are heartbreaking,
stomach-turning, sheer evil. We could have had a bipartisan
House response that it was outrageous when we left out
humanitarian help and conditioned Israel aid on tax relief for
the ultra-wealthy. Could have.
We must also guard against terror and hate at home. And we
have heard about that today. At my request, the President
sought $200 million more for the non-profit security grant
program. It has been successful. We started it many years ago
in the Homeland Security Committee. Jonathan, you know about
that. These dollars are needed to protect synagogues, mosques,
churches, community centers across America facing renewed
threats.
The tax-exempt organization like Hillel at Rutgers and
Princeton and so many others across the country couldn't be
eligible. We didn't even include a single cent for this program
in the bipartisan package. Not one cent.
According to the ADL--and I am sorry if you become my
Bible, my Bible, but you have, you have been fair to everybody,
not many organizations are fair to everybody--``Isn't it peace
that we seek, or is it settling?''
There has been a nearly 400 percent increase in anti-
Semitic incidents across the country since Hamas massacred so
many people. We are seeing more than a 200 percent increase in
Islamophobic incidents. This is the largest rise since Donald
Trump's shameful Muslim ban. That solves a lot.
Colleges have reported a startling surge of threats and
violence, particularly against Jewish, with some Muslim
students. We live in America. No one should face hatred, no one
should face vitriol because of their heritage.
I have sounded the alarm on domestic extremism for 15 years
and gotten mostly the deaf ear from both Republicans and
Democrats. It is historically in the books. I fight every year
for more funding to protect non-profits.
Today's hearing only reinforces the need for emergency
funding for non-profit security grants. This is all empty talk.
Actions matter, as was said. Put a full bipartisan security
supplemental on the floor. I am willing to vote for it.
Finally, I see one of the witnesses here, Mr. Schanzer.
You mentioned me by name. I hope I have the courtesy of
responding. In your testimony, you impugned the integrity and
loyalty of my constituents.
What he implies is total rubbish. My constituents have the
right to petition their government just like you, just like me.
So, Mr. Greenblatt, I appreciate the ADL's consistent
support for the program I am talking about.
I ask unanimous consent to enter into the record a letter
from the ADL and a coalition of national Jewish organizations,
including Hillel. The letter calls on the Biden Administration
to include emergency non-profit security grant funding in its
security supplemental package. To the record?
Chairman SMITH. Without objection.
[The information follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Greenblatt, can you please expand on the
importance of these grants, and why do we need additional
funding quickly for these essential grants?
Mr. GREENBLATT. So the non-profit security grant program--
and Congressman Pascrell, you deserve credit for your
leadership on this for so, so long--it protects synagogues and
Jewish schools. It protects churches. It protects HBCUs. It
allows these institutions to fortify themselves from the
threats that are real.
And I think about the shooting that took place at the
Dollar General in Jacksonville earlier this year. The shooter
went to a local HBCU and was deterred because of the campus
security funded by this grant program.
And I think about Congress, the earlier comments about
Pittsburgh. We just honored the five-year anniversary of that
deadliest day in America. And again, had they had the non-
profit security grant program in place, and they had the
adequate funding there, many lives might have been saved.
We saw shootings in the past year in California at Asian-
American churches. Again, had they had access to the funding,
lives could have been saved.
This is not a red or blue issue. This is not a Jewish or
Christian or Muslim issue. This is everyone's issue and
everyone's opportunity. So we would strongly advise or second
the idea of more money to fund the non-profit security grant
program.
Mr. PASCRELL. Mr. Speaker, can I just conclude a point
quickly?
Chairman SMITH. Conclude quickly, please.
Mr. PASCRELL. We are here, as I see it--and correct my
perception--but we here, to find a way to bring people
together. I mean, that is the purpose of the Congress, try to
avoid conflict, certainly stand up and be against violence.
And I would hope that what would come out of this
committee, any committee, is not only good intentions, but also
that we understand that there is a history here. You cannot
pass legislation to undo history, and we have to understand, in
context, the very problems that we are talking about.
And I have been interpreted by some as saying, well, then
you are someone who simply wants to look the other way. I don't
want to look the other way, but I want to be fair about it
because the rest have failed in what we tried to do in order to
help the peace. We need to rethink it together.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
Mr. Smucker.
Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today's
hearing. Thank you to each of the witnesses. A lot has been
said here today that I agree with.
I do just want to mention, you know, number one, there is
no equivalency between what Hamas did, the horrific attacks,
and Israel defending itself. And I think it is important that
is said. And I think the article that Mr. Wenstrup found
highlights that years ago the Palestinians could have chosen
peace and prosperity and coexisting with Israel, and have
chosen instead violence and destruction for many, many years.
And so we stand with Israel and Israel's right to defend
itself.
And, you know, we had a hearing on this yesterday in
another committee, and it is just--it is still unbelievable to
me that we are seeing what we are seeing on our college
campuses. There was a student from Princeton who said,
essentially, the Jewish students have retreated to the Jewish
centers because they don't feel that they can participate in
campus life. And it is just--it is sad to see. You know, we
have seen Jewish students violently attacked with microphones,
forced to lock themselves in a library in their dorms because
they fear for their own safety. And it is just hard for me to
believe that that is happening today. In my own district
Millersville University students were targeted when a man drew
two swastikas on campus.
And one of the things I want to focus on today, though, and
just get your thoughts--and maybe one of the themes of this
hearing--is the money that is flowing into universities, and
then where universities are spending their money, and whether
this has some impact on the positions that they are taking. And
I would like some of you to speak to that.
We know that foreign countries are investing heavily in our
universities, and they could potentially be abusing our U.S.
tax system while they are doing that. In some cases, this is
certainly countries that do not share our democratic values.
And so, Mr. Schanzer, I just want to ask about college
endowments, reporting requirements for foreign investments.
What steps--should we be concerned? And, if so, what steps
should Congress take to ensure that these colleges and
universities are fully disclosing where funds are coming from
and then are not investing tuition and donor dollars into
countries which actively oppose the U.S.?
Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you, Congressman. I am going to direct
my comments here specifically to the country of Qatar. And
there is a reason for that, because the Qataris are a state
sponsor of Hamas. They are right now being looked at as an
intermediary that may be able to help return those 240 hostages
that are being held in Gaza right now.
But we know that the country of Qatar has been giving
hundreds of millions of dollars to Hamas over the years, and
they have an office. And, in that office--we have actually seen
the video of some of those Hamas operatives cheering as they
saw the news break on 10/7, and the Qataris have not kicked
them out.
I am going to cite a couple of numbers here, and they are
staggering. Qatari expenditures on American universities
between 2002 and 2023 exceeds $4.7 billion. This is a country,
I should just remind you, of 300,000 people, okay? They have
been spending an average of $250 million per year. It has been
actually $3 billion between 2013 and 2019.
There was a moment--actually, in Texas--where Texas A&M,
which has been receiving funds from the Qataris, they did not
want to disclose--there was a lawsuit that ultimately had to be
filed. And eventually, that money was----
Mr. SMUCKER. I only have a--I would love to hear more, but
I only have another minute.
And by the way, Cornell is one that has received up to one-
and-a-half billion----
Mr. SCHANZER. Almost two billion.
Mr. SMUCKER [continuing]. In funding from Arab countries.
Mr. SCHANZER. Correct.
Mr. SMUCKER. Specifically, Qatar and Saudi Arabia and
others.
Mr. SCHANZER. Correct.
Mr. SMUCKER. Do you think these colleges are endangering
students' safety and academic integrity by accepting these
funds?
And do we know what these countries are receiving in
return?
Mr. SCHANZER. We don't know what the countries are
receiving in return, and that is a huge problem. And we need to
see the contracts. We need to see what the universities agreed
to in order to receive those funds, and it is not happening.
The Department of Education is actually woefully behind in
tracking these disclosures. That is something that I would hope
that this committee would look into.
Mr. SMUCKER. Thank you.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you. Mr. Estes is recognized.
Mr. ESTES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all
our witnesses for showing up for this critical hearing, and
talking through this issue that is so vital to the world. And
we are seeing the impact as we look at all the news the last
six weeks. Your testimony has certainly been impactful and
heart-wrenching.
It is sad that we have to convene on a topic of anti-
Semitism following the atrocities that occurred in Israel. I am
disgusted, even after hearing reports and seeing footage of
Hamas slaughtering families and babies and abducting hundreds
of other civilians. There are some here in the United States
that call the barbaric invasion and massacre ``exhilarating,''
yet that was the word used by a university professor within our
borders. These are heinous acts that we should all denounce in
rooting out anti-Semitism. And standing with our ally, Israel,
is not a partisan issue.
As mentioned earlier yesterday, hundreds of thousands of
Americans rallied here in our nation's capital, and leaders of
both political parties spoke in solidarity with our Jewish
friends and allies. Yet on our college campuses, what should be
the bastion of knowledge, students and faculty have abandoned
the history of the state of Israel and the facts of the ongoing
war and have instead sided with a terrorist organization that
is intent on wiping out the Jewish people and rallying around
the cries of death to America.
And U.S. officials have confirmed that Hamas is using
hospitals, hospitals as command centers and armories. So why
are the most rabid anti-Semites and the most vocal Hamas
backers on our U.S. college campuses and--often in positions of
prominence?
Universities seem to have become a safe harbor for anti-
Semitic and anti-American rhetoric. And it is actually
frightening to uncover the financial ties between higher
education funding and anti-Semitism. You know, a recent report,
as mentioned earlier, about--from the National Contagion
Research Institute highlights about the $13 million in
unreported foreign contributions to approximately 200 U.S.
colleges and universities. A common thread between these
institutions of higher education was greater exposure to anti-
Semitic rhetoric.
Not only that, but even student groups such as Students for
Justice in Palestine are linked to unsavory organizations that
once had ties to terrorism and potential financial links to
Hamas.
On top of that, the leadership of many of these colleges
have been slow to respond, giving the impression that they
condone the anti-Semitic and antagonistic methods of the
student population.
Today, I am grateful to have you folks here that are
standing up to anti-Semitism and boldly supporting the state of
Israel.
Mr. Schanzer, you studied Middle Eastern history
extensively. What is your take when you hear students, college
students, say that the Palestinians are only trying to defend
against colonialization, and that the Jewish people are on
stolen land?
Where has our education system gone wrong in that process?
Mr. SCHANZER. Mr. Congressman, thank you so much for that
question. I will just say that I believe that Middle Eastern
studies in America has failed over the last 20, 30, maybe 40
years. It has been utterly corrupted. We see tenured professors
teaching opinion and not fact.
When you go back and you look at the history of this
conflict, there was a partition plan that was proposed before
the state of Israel was established. There was going to be a
Palestinian state and an Israeli state living side by side. The
Palestinians rejected it, as did the surrounding Arab states.
Israel ended up winning a great deal of that territory in a
hard-fought war from 1948 to 1949.
Israel still held out hope that it might be able to make
peace with its neighbors. And then there was war in 1956,
another war in 1967. Every time the Israelis offered up a peace
agreement, it was met with rejection. There was the famous
three noes from Khartoum, from the Arab League, where they said
no recognition, no negotiation, and no peace.
This has been the history, the tragic history of the Middle
East, where we could have seen peace agreements forged. It has
not happened. And yet what we see from professors on our
campuses is the vilification of Israel, which has been the one
party that has been willing to make peace over these years.
Mr. ESTES. That is right, thank you. Yes. I mean, that is a
good, short rendition of what really has happened, and we need
to be aware of that.
Mr. Greenblatt, how has the indoctrination of hatred
towards Jews and by Hamas and Palestinian authorities been
utilized to ramp up such hatred, particularly in the Middle
East but, I mean, to some degree throughout the United States,
as well?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Throughout the United States, Mr.
Congressman, I am glad you asked.
I mean, what we have seen--and I would attribute much of
this to the normalization of anti-Zionism. Anti-Zionism is the
ideology that says Jews don't have the same rights that we
would afford to Palestinians or other people. Zionism is has
been demonized. It is just the idea that Jews have the right to
self-determination in their ancestral homeland. That is it. It
doesn't exclude Palestinians. There is no ethnocentric
dimension to it. It is just the right to self-determination.
But the normalization of anti-Zionism is this ugly trend, and
it has really come through these universities.
Let me be crystal clear for the record. Anti-Zionism is
anti-Semitism, period, full stop.
And you know who knows this well? Talia knows this well.
The students know this well, because they see what is happening
in these Middle Eastern studies departments that Dr. Schanzer
talked about, and what is happening out of the classroom on the
quad.
I mean, these incidences are really almost indescribable,
and we wouldn't tolerate it if it happened against any other
group of students, nor should we. Imagine if, in a world where
we were upset about Beijing's policies, we saw students
vandalizing Chinese restaurants. Or imagine if they were
demonstrating outside the Asian Study Center. We would say that
is indescribably bad and unacceptable, just as this is, and it
needs to stop now.
Mr. ESTES. Well, thank you.
And I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. CAREY [presiding]. Thank you. The chair recognizes Mr.
Davis for five minutes.
Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I too thank you for
calling this hearing.
And, to all of the witnesses, I appreciate very much the
profound comments and statements that you have made.
You know, as I was thinking, we are moving towards
Thanksgiving. And I thought of my grandmother, who taught us to
never look down at anybody else unless we were trying to figure
out how to help them up. And she also taught us to try and have
consideration for others that we would seek for ourselves.
Then I thought of my father, who was her son. And he taught
us to try and live by the Golden Rule. That is, do unto others
as you would have them do unto you.
And finally, arriving at the idea that we all learn what we
live, and then we have a tendency to live what we learn, our
colleges and universities have been leaders towards more open,
more expansive, more tolerant societies. That is kind of the
way we have been taught to think of academia and to think of
academic institutions. And it is most unfortunate that they
seemingly, in many instances, according to studies and reports
and documentation, to be going in other directions.
Mr. Greenblatt, my question is going to arrive at you for
two reasons. One, all of my adult life, beginning as a
teenager, I have been very engaged, involved, and close to
organizations like the American Civil Liberties Union,
organizations like the ADL. I have had the good fortune to know
outstanding Jewish leaders like Rabbi Marx and James Ramsey and
spent considerable time with them in Chicago. If it happens,
much of it happens in Chicago, it just happens to be the
Midwest where it is located. But I have also spent considerable
time with Palestinian leaders and Palestinian groups and have
been to mosques and have been to temples and had those
experiences.
My question is, how do we move beyond where things seem to
be coming, and what are some of those concrete things that
perhaps can be taught that help us move in the direction of
getting where we need to go?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, Mr. Congressman, I appreciate the
question.
First of all, I think, like you, my organization has been
involved in the fight for civil rights for--since before any of
us were alive. And I am proud that my predecessors marched in
Selma, stood with Dr. King long before it was fashionable to do
so. And the fight today for peace is going to require us to
take risks, as well.
And let's be clear. The death of any Palestinian child or
woman or innocent in Gaza is a tragedy, and we should mourn
those losses.
We also should have the moral clarity to understand why are
they happening. The scenes coming out of Gaza City today of
Hamas operatives embedded in hospitals, using the sick and the
infirm to defend themselves, are despicable. They are
intolerable, and they are morally unacceptable. So we should
free Gaza from Hamas.
That being said, how do we move forward here today? We need
the Jewish and Muslim communities in this country--by the way,
not just Muslims and Jews, all people--to realize that we need
dignity and equality for Palestinians, but it will only happen
when Israelis also have safety and security, that the two paths
cannot be divergent, they must be convergent, with both sides
recognizing each other's inalienable rights.
And I will be honest with you. There has been a long
movement in the United States, a peace movement in the Jewish
community, seeking a two-state solution, seeking to work
together with their Palestinian neighbors.
I think of Vivian Silver, this Canadian-Israeli woman. She
was a peace activist. Her role, Congressman, was taking sick
Palestinians, those needing medical treatment, driving them
from the border into Israel to get treatment. She was
butchered, mutilated, her corpse so destroyed they thought she
had been kidnaped. They didn't recognize this 70-year-old's
body. They couldn't make a positive ID for almost five weeks.
Literally, the depravity here is beyond words.
So, I say to you we need to recognize our common humanity,
and we can do that after we defeat the evil of Hamas.
Mr. DAVIS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
[Applause.]
Mr. CAREY. Mr. Hern is recognized for five minutes.
Mr. HERN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
There are many Jewish families and organizations in my
district that are integral to our community. My district also
has a large evangelical population that prays for the peace of
Jerusalem, and I am proud to be one of them. In Tulsa, we have
the Sherwin Miller Museum, which hosts a sobering exhibit
educating citizens on the realities of the Holocaust.
Understanding and remembering history is important if we wish
to avoid repeating the horrors of the past.
Anti-Semitic demonstrations are taking place on college
campuses across the country, and anti-Semitism is up nearly 400
percent in the United States since the Israel-Hamas War began.
It is deeply troubling to see the lack of moral clarity in
university leaders who fail or refuse to condemn anti-Semitic
demonstration on campuses. It is a sad day in America when
parents at school board meetings are deemed terrorists, but
Hamas's brutal violence against women and children is defended,
even celebrated.
Unfortunately, this confusion and chaos in institutions of
higher ed is not an anomaly. For decades, we have seen
prestigious college campuses slowly soil their reputations by
embracing Marxism, Confucius Institutes, and moral relativism
at the expense of merit, virtue, and truth. Education is no
longer the mission of these universities. Whether intentionally
or out of naive stupidity, universities have allowed radical
ideologies, often funded by the Chinese Communist Party, to
indoctrinate our students.
All is not lost, though. In the face of blatant hatred and
anti-Semitism, I have been encouraged by the support millions
of Americans of all races and religions have shown to our
Jewish friends and neighbors. Last week, there was a community
meeting in Tulsa to stand up against anti-Semitic hate at a
local Jewish synagogue. We need more of these kinds of meetings
across America.
Supporting Hamas is supporting terrorism, plain and simple.
We should not provide tax exemption status to organizations
that funnel money to terrorists or take money from known
terrorist states. The American people should know if their
money is going to support terrorism, and they should be
appalled even if one American cent has contributed to the
causes of terrorism.
As a member of the Ways and Means Committee, we hold the
power of the purse and tax-exempt status. With that power comes
great responsibility to provide oversight on charities and
universities that potentially abuse the tax-exempt status.
American universities continue to receive billions of dollars
in the form of taxpayer subsidies through tax breaks and
Federal payments. Yet anti-Semitic incidents rise on their
campuses. Higher ed should not continue to receive taxpayer
money in the form of Federal payments, grants, or tax
exemptions if they continue to turn a blind eye to anti-
Semitism on their campuses.
The role the media has played in the recent rise in anti-
Semitism should be noted. We have seen various news outlets
downplay violent confrontations and threats to harm Jewish
people, place blame on Israel despite the--being the victims of
Hamas's attacks, and even try and justify the anti-Semitic acts
of some.
For example, CBS titled an article ``Jewish Man, 69, Dies
After a Clash During Dueling Protests over Israel-Palestinian
Conflict in LA Area,'' and, by doing so, downplayed the fact
that the elderly man was violently struck in the head by a pro-
Palestinian supporter with a megaphone.
Ms. Tishby, what--I mean, you have--I missed part of the
hearing here for another meeting, but what do you think of all
this?
I mean, you obviously are an activist in this area. What
are your thoughts on this?
Ms. TISHBY. Thank you, Congressman. I am glad you asked me
about the role of media.
So one of the biggest tropes about the Jewish community is
that the Jews control the media. It is an anti-Semitic trope
that is very old. And, clearly, it is not the case because, if
the Jews would have controlled the media, we wouldn't have been
in this situation in which media outlets around the world
refuse to call terrorists terrorists, they call them militants.
They refuse to even wait a second before they get a press
release from the Gaza Ministry of Health and immediately blame
Israel for shooting a rocket at a hospital and killing 500
people. If you would think for a second, it takes more than a
minute to count 500 bodies, right? Nobody thinks about that.
And we shouldn't really be surprised, sadly. So there is,
obviously, anti-Israel media bias that is extraordinary. I look
at the other side, on their planning and organization, and I
think of what they blame us. They blame us for having a cabal.
They seem to be having a great cabal of their own, and the
media is a huge part of it. But this is all starting from
somewhere. When you train and educate generations of young
Americans on college campuses to believe these blood libels, to
believe these--this slander, these lies about Israel and about
Zionism and about the Jewish people, then they go on to work at
newsrooms, and they take Hamas press release at face value. We
shouldn't be surprised that this is happening.
We need to nip it in the bud, and nipping it in the bud
meaning removing it from our children, removing it from our
children entirely. Thank you.
I want to take this opportunity for a second and bring into
this room the 241 Israeli and other citizens, hostages--Romi,
Gal, Tal, Emily--ranges from 9 months to 85 years old that are
held for over a month-and-a-half in captivity with a terrorist
organization, an unprecedented incidence in the history of the
world. So I just wanted to bring them into the halls of this
great chamber. And thank you. Thank you very much for having us
all. Thank you.
Mr. HERN. Thanks for your response.
Thank you, I yield back.
Mr. CAREY. Mrs. Miller is recognized for five minutes.
Mrs. MILLER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I am still utterly horrified by the atrocities committed
against our ally, Israel, by Hamas on October 7. There really
are no words to describe what occurred. This depravity is being
met fiercely, thank goodness. And I pray that the terrorist
organization Hamas is destroyed so that they can never commit
these kinds of attacks ever again.
It is written in Genesis, ``The Lord had said to Abraham,
Go from your country, your people, your father's household, to
the land I will show you. I will make you into a great nation,
and I will bless you. I will make your name great, and you will
be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you. And whoever
curses you, I will curse. And all peoples on earth will be
blessed through you.''
I want to specifically thank Talia for joining us today and
sharing her harrowing account of terror that was perpetrated by
another student against the Jewish community at Cornell
University.
I can assure you, Talia, that they will be and should be
brought to justice.
A concerning trend that we have witnessed is the influence
of foreign governments on tax-exempt college campuses. One such
example is Qatari funding for Northwestern University. It is no
coincidence that it now has a campus in the Gulf country and
has become a pipeline for reporters for the Qatari state-owned
media Al Jazeera and their youth-focused subsidiary, AJ+. It is
widely reported that Northwestern's president said that the
university will not be making an institutional statement on the
attacks of Israel.
Ironically, Northwestern is a frequent commenter on global
events such as the invasion of Ukraine and numerous Supreme
Court cases. This has led me to wonder if Qatar's funding for
Northwestern plays a role in their non-statement on this
geopolitical event.
It is hard to miss that Qatar is actively housing Hamas
leadership in luxury hotels while Palestinians suffer, or that
AJ+ has been at the forefront of spreading pro-Hamas propaganda
on social media sites, especially on TikTok, misinforming our
students across the country and inspiring additional anti-
Semitism.
The Department of Justice has determined that AJ+ must
register under the Foreign Agent Registration Act, known as
FARA, but they have failed to do so. The fact that they are
influencing the thoughts of America's youth, without disclosing
their funding, should be further investigated, and taxpayers
should definitely not be subsidizing the universities that
allow hatred to spread.
Mr. Lehman, while I have highlighted Northwestern's
response in particular today, they are not the only ones to
disappoint in this important moment. How do you think we should
look at Northwestern's and other schools' responses to Hamas
attacks?
Do you believe that their neutrality and inaction are a
result of their financial ties to countries known to support
terrorist organizations like Hamas?
Mr. LEHMAN. Thank you, Congresswoman Miller. I would say
the following.
While at Hillel we can't know for sure how funding is or
isn't impacting the administration, here is what we can say for
sure. It was very disappointing to see Northwestern University
not speak out, and that was joined by so many other
universities who also chose not to speak out. As President Ben
Sasse at University of Florida shared, ``This is not hard.'' So
they missed that opportunity horribly.
Beyond that, Northwestern actually is a textbook example of
where students for Justice in Palestine has continued to poison
the campus climate for Jewish students, including just in
recent weeks publishing fake newspapers demonizing Israel and,
again, alienating Jewish students.
Our Hillel student leaders are working so hard, and our
terrific executive director, Michael Simon, there to actually
promote understanding. We have heard from many members. We need
to build bridges. These are students, Jewish students who care
deeply about Israel, but care about the harms, you know,
directed at Palestinian civilians. They want to see justice,
dignity, and safety for all, but they cannot find opportunities
to build bridges when other groups literally--and you all
should understand this--there are student groups on campus who
have anti-normalization policies. They won't even sit down and
talk to Jewish students at Northwestern and other campuses.
So whatever you all are able to do to, number one,
influence the universities in your districts would be terrific.
Come visit us at our Hillels. You can talk to students, and you
will actually be able to lift their spirits.
And, relative to the authority that you do have, as some
members have said, please continue to support the non-profit
security grants. Please continue to drive accountability
through title 6 or any other measures that you can. And please
just continue to use your voices to speak out. We really
appreciate it.
Mrs. MILLER. And very briefly, Ms. Tishby, since you are a
member of the media, what role should media personalities
really play?
And what is their real role? Are they supposed to report
accurate information?
Ms. TISHBY. Can you elaborate on which personalities,
exactly? Media personalities, social media personality, all of
them?
Mrs. MILLER. All of them.
Mr. CAREY. The----
Ms. TISHBY. I will tell you what I can say.
Mr. CAREY. The witness can finish, but the gentlewoman's
time has expired.
Ms. TISHBY. Okay.
Mrs. MILLER. Okay.
Ms. TISHBY. So I will do it quickly.
Israel was a not-cool cause to align yourself with. For
many, many years I was working--living and working in Hollywood
and--as a producer, as an actress, as a writer. And I have
tried to get people to vocally support Israel, and they would
say, ``Oh, I love Israel.''
``But would you say it publicly, or would you tweet about
it?''
``No.''
So what I encourage people to do, people that have any kind
of profile, is to acknowledge the difference between good and
evil. Supporting the existence of safety and security of the
state of Israel does not mean that you always agree with the
Israeli Government's policies. That is fine. But Israel is the
only country in the world that her existence is being
questioned. That is something that we should not agree to hear
anymore.
But yes, I would like to hear from more----
Mrs. MILLER. Thank you.
Ms. TISHBY [continuing]. Personalities out there publicly.
Thank you.
Mr. CAREY. Ms. Sanchez is recognized for five minutes.
Ms. SANCHEZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really appreciate
the opportunity for this committee to acknowledge and confront
the reality of rising anti-Semitism and hate, especially on
college campuses. And I want to thank each of our witnesses for
sharing their stories and their perspectives today, because it
takes a lot of courage to speak up.
In the wake of Hamas's vicious terrorist attack against
Israel on October 7, our communities are reporting a troubling
uptick in reports of anti-Semitic harassment. And I think we
are all united in the belief that anti-Semitism cannot be
tolerated in any form. It has no place in our communities,
especially on college campuses and in our nation's schools.
Unaddressed, that kind of hatred threatens the very fabric of
our nation.
I want to start my questioning with Mr. Greenblatt--I want
to thank you for your testimony outlining the significant spike
in anti-Semitic incidents in the wake of the Hamas-Israel war.
We have to confront hate early and aggressively, and the
Federal Government urgently needs to support programs that
combat anti-Semitism. Would you agree with that?
Mr. GREENBLATT. I absolutely agree, Congresswoman.
Ms. SANCHEZ. And you provided many policy recommendations,
which include investing in the Department of Education's Office
for Civil Rights, which investigates complaints that students
have been subjected to ethnic or ancestral slurs, or to
harassment based on their appearance, dress, or the way they
speak in ways that are tied to ethnicity or ancestry. Is that
correct?
Mr. GREENBLATT. I mean, title 6 covers protecting students
based on ethnicity or national origin. So, you have to show a
pattern of discrimination, and the university not creating,
again, a space where the student is able to learn and live
freely.
Ms. SANCHEZ. But the question being you recommend investing
in the Department of----
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, I do.
Ms. SANCHEZ [continuing]. Education's Office for Civil
Rights.
The Office of Civil Rights is responsible for, as you have
said, ensuring that schools provide all students, including
students who are or are perceived to be Jewish, Israeli,
Muslim, Arab, or Palestinian in a learning environment that is
free from discrimination that is based on race, color, or
national origin.
Mr. Greenblatt, would slashing the funding for the Office
of Civil Rights by 25 percent, as House Republicans have
proposed, make it harder for school and university leaders to
protect students and foster a safe and supportive learning
environment?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, I appreciate the question. I am not
familiar with the particular proposal you are suggesting.
I would say that, as I mentioned before and as I will
reinforce, the Office of Civil Rights, which is there for all
students, deserves adequate funding so that it can deal with
the large number of cases that it has.
And I also believe that the office--you know, there may be
things that we can do right now to help it. So, for example, I
had a meeting with the attorney general last week. I
recommended detailing lawyers from the Department of Justice
over to Education. It wouldn't require any additional money, it
could help them deal with the backlog of cases.
I recommended IPAs. You know, you could put people in the
Federal Government on short terms of service. It doesn't
require any additional money, but you could do that without
raising the head count.
And finally, the Department of Education doesn't need to
wait for cases to be brought to it. It could appoint, almost
like a special prosecutor--that is not the right term, but
someone to go out there and aggressively look at these cases.
It doesn't require any additional money.
Ms. SANCHEZ. I appreciate those recommendations, but my
question was whether a 25 percent cut in the Office of Civil
Rights would help or hinder the ability to investigate those
kinds of incidences of harassment.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Clearly, adequate funding--so I would not
recommend funding cuts at this time.
Ms. SANCHEZ. Great. I also just want to point out that
House Republicans have also proposed slashing the FBI's
operating budget, eliminating hate crime grants, and
eliminating the Community Relations Service, which is also
known as America's peacemaker, for helping communities address
conflict based on actual or perceived race, color, national
origin, or religion.
And I only raise those issues because, given what the
witnesses have shared with us today, I think that we ought not
to be talking about slashing funding for vital programs which
can help root out these incidences of violence, or even prevent
them before they escalate to incidents of violence. So instead
of the proposed cuts to those critical programs, we should
fully fund them or even plus-up funding where needed.
Lastly, I just wanted to say, Ms. Dror, I really appreciate
you being here today and sharing difficult and frightening
experiences with us, from threats and harassment to disturbing
graffiti that you have experienced on your college campus. And
it is not hard to understand why students are scared. What
would you suggest my colleagues and I should remember as we
consider the different ways the Federal Government can help
address hate and prevent violent attacks on our friends, our
families, and our neighbors?
Ms. DROR. Thank you so much. In terms of legal policy, I am
not an expert yet, so I would defer to the experts on this
panel.
But I hope you remember that I am supposed to be in school
right now. Like in this exact moment I am supposed to be in my
constitutional politics class, which is funny. [Laughter.]
Ms. SANCHEZ. You might get extra credit for actually being
here. I don't know. [Laughter.]
Ms. DROR. Let's hope. But Jewish students deserve to be
able to go to their classes.
Ms. SANCHEZ. I agree, and thank you so much for your
testimony. [Applause.]
Ms. SANCHEZ. I yield back.
Mr. CAREY. Dr. Murphy is recognized for five minutes.
Mr. MURPHY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you all for
coming today. I know there have been some really heart-
wrenching stories, and I am sorry you are having to tell them,
but that is, sadly enough, the world that we live in.
I have worked since my tenure in Congress a lot on free
speech. I have had free speech roundtables now--this will be
the third year in a row next month. And it is just interesting
now on campus how free speech is now flipped on its head.
Because it used to be if--it was diversity in all things except
opinion, and that is what has hit--that is what has popped the
top off it now, because it is not diversity of opinion.
And how anti-Semitism has just exploded in the country is
beyond me. It is beyond me. It was never an issue when I was in
college, never. And the horrific, murderous, barbaric attacks
that occurred--and any college professor should be removed from
their position immediately, any college president should be
removed from his or her position immediately, any student
should be expelled immediately. These are no different than
inciting neo-Nazi, White supremacy, or anything else.
So we have on one side of the stream where we are attacking
the White supremacy neo-Nazis, but all of a sudden there is a
difference and they are calling that free speech. That is not
free speech. That is inciting violence and death on college
campuses today. There is a marked, marked difference.
Ms. Dror, you know, you gave a very compelling introductory
talk, and I appreciate that a little bit. Let me ask you this.
In your experience, do you feel that colleges and universities
now have a double standard in regards to free speech?
Ms. DROR. I believe it is within my free speech rights to
put up a mezuzah on my door. That mezuzah has recently been had
to----
Mr. MURPHY. I am sorry. Would you mind repeating that?
Ms. DROR. There is a Jewish scroll that Jewish people put
on their doorposts.
Mr. MURPHY. Right.
Ms. DROR. I have one on my home. It is within my free
speech rights to put one of those on my door.
Mr. MURPHY. Right.
Ms. DROR. That has had to be removed for my safety. How can
colleges say that endorsing terrorism is free speech when it--
--
Mr. MURPHY. No, they are not----
Ms. DROR [continuing]. Directly hinders my ability to
express my religious free speech?
Mr. MURPHY. Yes, I wear--I have a cross in my office, and
you don't know how many times, at least in this institution,
they have attacked the cross. That is the cross on which this
nation was built. In God we Trust. Christian, Judeo-Christian,
it was a foundation on which this nation was built. You may not
like it, but that is what happened.
[Slide]
Mr. MURPHY. Ms. Tishby, wow, you have talked about this
several times today. I really would love to understand. I have
been to Israel twice. When you go into the term ``From the
river to the sea, Palestine will be free,'' what does that mean
when somebody is Jewish? What happens when they hear those
words?
Ms. TISHBY. Thank you so much, and I love that you have
visual aids.
Mr. MURPHY. They just magically appear.
Ms. TISHBY. First of all, let's just--I love it. This is
fabulous. Let's just acknowledge that the size of Israel is the
size of the State of New Jersey. So there are 21 Arab countries
in the region, 1 Jewish state. And, for some reason, Israel is
the big bad wolf. You can barely find it on the map. It is a
tiny piece of land.
The Jordan River, over there to the east, and the
Mediterranean Sea, when people say, ``From the river to the
sea, Palestine will be free,'' they mean that piece of land
completely clean. So ethnically cleansing the Jews from their
ancestral land.
Now, why is that anti-Semitic?
Mr. MURPHY. You have about 30 seconds. I am trying to stay
on time.
Ms. TISHBY. I am sorry?
Mr. MURPHY. I have got--we have got about 30 seconds, so I
am trying----
Ms. TISHBY. Why is this anti-Semitic? It is anti-Semitic
because if you don't allow only the Jewish people to have a
state, if you are anti-Zionist, you are saying, ``I am not
anti-Semitic, I am just an anti-Zionist,'' well then, which
other country would you like to dismantle? Usually the
question--the answer to that is none, just Israel.
Mr. MURPHY. Right.
Ms. TISHBY. So people that are obsessing over Israel are
anti-Semitic, and that means cleansing that particular piece of
land, which is the Jewish people's ancestral land.
Mr. MURPHY. It would be very similar, but not nearly as
commentary as to say get everything from the Atlantic to
Pacific, south of Canada, north of Mexico.
Ms. TISHBY. Yes, America will be free.
Mr. MURPHY. Well, thank you.
I will say this when we are talking about funding. I don't
mean this to be partisan, but the Democrat--my Democratic
colleagues love to just say more and more and more funding. How
about we cut the funding of these colleges and universities,
and divert the funding that they already have, that they--I
have been on a college board--and see an explosion every year
of program after program after program. How about we cut and
reuse the money? Because otherwise, it becomes a nuclear arms
race. Who can scream for more money year after year?
So go to these college professors, board of trustees, and
all--to all these folks and say, ``You are losing your money,''
which I think the vast majority should anyway, ``if you don't
move your funds from one thing to another,'' actually put your
money where your mouth is when you talk about true diversity
and inclusivity.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will yield back.
Mr. CAREY. Mr. Kustoff is now recognized for five minutes.
Mr. KUSTOFF. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the
witnesses, all of you, for appearing today. I think we have all
learned a lot.
If I could, Dr. Schanzer, with you, if I could get you for
a moment to put on your former Department of Treasury hat,
yesterday my colleague and I, Congressman Brad Schneider at the
other end, introduced a bipartisan piece of legislation--the
bill number is H.R. 6408--it would authorize the Department of
Treasury to revoke the tax-exempt status of any non-profit
deemed to be providing material support or resources to a
terrorist group or to--a terrorist group like Hamas, or any
other terrorist group. You were back in your role at Treasury.
Can you talk about the benefit that that legislation could
provide if it, in fact, were enacted by Congress?
Mr. SCHANZER. Certainly, Congressman, and thank you for the
question. I did see H.R. 6408, and I think it is a worthwhile
initiative.
I think that there was a time, though, where Treasury used
to track domestic groups and actually sanction them. It has
stopped doing that, so we don't do that anymore. We only target
external groups, foreign terrorist organizations, foreign
charities, foreign individuals. That is what the Treasury does
now.
So this is probably something that the Department of
Justice and the FBI would be able to wield. So, if Treasury
identifies one of those, and they are identified pursuant to
this proposed law, then it would be probably something that the
Department of Justice and FBI would follow up on. But I do see
this as a very valuable tool.
Mr. KUSTOFF. A valuable tool to revoke the tax-exempt
status of these organizations.
Mr. SCHANZER. Correct, as a first step. And then I would
say after that you would want to have a deeper investigation to
find out whether there is criminal activity, because that is
certainly what is implied in the language of your proposal.
Mr. KUSTOFF. You talked about American Muslims for
Palestine. What about the Islamic Relief Worldwide, the IRW,
are you familiar with them?
Mr. SCHANZER. I am not as familiar. The reason why I have
tracked AMP is because I used to track all the other groups
that came before it. I could very easily see their lineage. I
am not tracking all these other groups full-time.
Mr. KUSTOFF. Okay, fair enough. Thank you very much.
Mr. GREENBLATT, thank you for appearing today. Does TikTok
contribute to anti-Semitism?
Mr. GREENBLATT. There is no question that social media
broadly is a super-spreader of anti-Semitism and hate. TikTok
has had--as well reported, a considerable amount of
disinformation being spread on the platform. We have seen the
Pro-Hamas hashtags enjoy far greater popularity than the pro-
Israel content. Some of that, I think, could be attributed to
the volume that is there. I mean, it is a massive platform with
billions of users.
This body, this committee, should be looking at social
media and looking at what you can do to rein in the hate that
is there, for sure.
Mr. KUSTOFF. And there has been talk about the other media
organizations, non-social media.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes.
Mr. KUSTOFF. I am talking about traditional. Do you have an
opinion? Because people watch television, right?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Right.
Mr. KUSTOFF. Can you talk about the evenness or the
unevenness of how events have been covered since October 7?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, I mean, it is fairly astonishing. It
is like we are all--it is like Al Jazeera has captured our
networks.
I mean, just so we are clear--and Noa alluded to this
earlier--you are not a fighter if you go in and decapitate a
baby, you are a murderer. You are not a militant if you go in
and execute the elderly, you are a killer.
And you know, I have had conversations with the leadership
of the AP, The New York Times, The Washington Post, let alone
the networks. And it is beyond my understanding and
comprehension how these organizations can be confused about the
moral standing of these murderers. We didn't call the people
who took out the Twin Towers fighters. We called them
terrorists because that is what they were. And we didn't call
the people who butchered babies in Syria fighters because they
were terrorists, and that is what they were. And I don't
understand why there is any moral confusion about this here and
now.
Mr. KUSTOFF. Thank you, Mr. Greenblatt.
Ms. Tishby, very quickly, as my time is expiring, you--
prophetically, maybe--wrote a column in Variety several weeks
before October 7. I want to read you a quote now. Here is my--
ask you a question. You are--what you wrote, ``Anti-Zionism is
the new, hip, and socially acceptable thing to do as we can see
on social networks such as TikTok, which exploded into frenzied
criticisms of Israel, sometimes even in dance routines, during
the May 21 Gaza conflict.'' I think you wrote this, again, just
a few weeks before October 7.
Can you compare that quote a few weeks before October 7 and
now?
Ms. TISHBY. Well, now it just became a whole lot more
extreme and a whole lot more spread out.
We just found out that X, formerly known as Twitter, by--
did not remove 98 percent of reported anti-Semitic hate speech
since October 7. It only got worse.
I called it in my book, this hip, new social justice cause
because hating Israel became the norm, and that norm needs to
be turned around. As Jonathan was saying, social media is a
super-spreader. We live in a terrifying world in which, if
Hitler had TikTok, we would be seeing another reality.
This is what we are dealing with right now, and for some it
is very unfortunate that Israel is patient zero when it comes
to misinformation and fake news, just like it was in the days
of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. We are seeing this
manifest and change, and this is where we are at today. Anti-
Semitism is a shape-shifting conspiracy theory, and it has
shifted into what we are seeing today, which is anti-Israel and
anti-Zionism.
Mr. CAREY. The gentleman's time has expired.
Ms. Sewell is recognized for five minutes.
Ms. SEWELL. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank
all of our witnesses here today for sharing your personal
experiences and your professional insight.
We are five weeks removed from Hamas's horrific terrorist
attacks resulting in the deaths of thousands, killers leaving
Israeli and Palestinians caught in the crosshairs of war. The
aftermath of this conflict is not contained within the active
war zone. The effects of the conflict have made their way to
the United States in both anti-Semitic and Islamophobic acts.
And, to be clear--we must be very clear--we cannot allow
anti-Semitism or Islamophobic or any form of hate to grow
anywhere, but especially here in America and especially on our
college and university campuses.
We are, unfortunately, witnessing home-grown hatred, and we
have in this nation, unfortunately, seen this before. One need
look only further [sic] than my Alabama congressional district
to witness the country's centuries-long history of hatred. It
was this hatred that culminated in the spilling of blood on the
Edmund Pettus Bridge, including that blood of our former
colleague, the great late John Lewis. The brave foot soldiers
that day were advocating for the fundamental constitutional
right of access to the ballot box and freedom of speech.
While the battle fought that day may have been or appeared
to be distant, old battles have indeed become new again. And
the modern battleground is not a bridge, but college and
university campuses. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 was shaped by
the countless men and women, many so unknown, from my Alabama's
7th congressional district who experienced discrimination
during the height of the Jim Crow South.
Now, we know that colleges and universities have a legal
obligation under title 6 of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to
provide all students, including students who are or are
perceived to be Jewish or Israeli, a school environment that is
free of discrimination based on race, on color, or national
origin.
I wanted to ask you, Mr. Greenblatt, if you could talk
about what colleges and universities must do to address this
anti-Semitism so that they don't lose their federal funding
under title 6.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, I am glad you asked the question,
Congresswoman Sewell. So, thank you.
You know, Congresswoman, I would say, number one, like you
said, the universities have a legal obligation to protect all
of their students, and their Jewish students are being targeted
right now. But I must say we are not going to wait, because so
many of these university presidents are cowardly and feckless.
So I am proud to share that Mr. Lehman and I, through
Hillel and ADL, along with another group called the Brandeis
Center, have launched a legal help line last week called Call
the Campus, an anti-Semitism legal line, to make it easy for
students to submit cases.
We have already had over 150 cases submitted in one week.
We have trained over 100 lawyers, in part thanks to the help of
a law firm Gibson Dunn & Crutcher. And, if we do our job right,
we will get up to 1,000 lawyers. So you better believe we are
not going to wait for these universities to finally show up. We
are going to show them, and we are going to bring the cases to
them.
And I think, you know, I appreciate the conversation about
the Qatari money. You know, we talk about dark money in
politics. This is dark charity, and dark charities should have
no place in our country. And so we should again stop the flow
of dark charity, and we should stop the flow of Federal funds
if these university presidents don't finally do their jobs.
Ms. SEWELL. So can you tell students who may be listening
what ADL resources are available to them?
I mean, you just said being able to file cases.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes.
Ms. SEWELL. Can they find on your website--where can people
go----
Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, they can text----
Ms. SEWELL [continued]. To really find those resources to
help them?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, they can text ``call help'' to 51555
to report incidents. ``Call help'' to 51555.
Number two, they can go to ADL.org. Through our deep
partnership with Hillel International, we provide training to
students so they understand how to deal with the anti-Semitism
and anti-Zionism when they are confronted with it,
Congresswoman.
So I think, between ADL--you can find our stuff at
ADL.org--and all the amazing resources of Hillel, there is a
lot of stuff that students can use.
Ms. SEWELL. We must stop hatred, period----
Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you, agreed.
Ms. SEWELL [continued]. In this country.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
Ms. SEWELL. Thank you.
Mr. CAREY. The chair would like to remind members and also
the witnesses that--to keep your remarks within the five-minute
time period. That way all of the members will have time to ask
questions.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Fitzpatrick for five minutes.
Mr. FITZPATRICK. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for
being here today.
I represent the Philadelphia region, Bucks County,
Montgomery County in southeastern Pennsylvania. I was
personally horrified in our own example in our backyard to see
violent extremist activity, specifically at the University of
Pennsylvania. A student proclaimed during a protest in
Philadelphia that October 7 attacks by Hamas made her feel
empowered and happy, and she later stole an Israeli flag for
all the world to see. For someone to feel empowered and happy
as innocent children are kidnaped and murdered in cold blood is
the most unimaginable thing anyone could imagine in a free
society.
Dr. Schanzer, thank you for being here, sir. You have been
observing an uptick in violence on college campuses linked to
Hamas propaganda for quite some time now. Beyond this example,
can you provide this committee for the record--because we want
to get a lot of this on the record today--other examples that
you have witnessed of violent rhetoric being spread to students
since the war began and how Hamas propaganda has been funneled
down to groups on campuses throughout----
Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you, Congressman Fitzpatrick, and thank
you for representing my hometown of Philadelphia. Go, Birds.
Look, Penn is probably the worst campus that I have seen
during all of this. And this takes nothing away from what we
have seen in Cornell. I will go through just a couple of the
examples of what we have seen, the kinds of rhetoric and the
threats that have been taking place on this campus. It is
embarrassing to me, as a son of Philadelphia and as a Jew, to
see this happening. It is unbelievable that it is happening in
America, for that matter.
So you have a speaker at Penn, Against the Occupation, a
rally praising Hamas for a job well done on 10/7. We have,--at
Penn's AEPi house, someone scribbled the message, ``Jews are
Nazis.'' The Hillel was broken into. The Chabad was vandalized.
A swastika was drawn on an academic building. We are watching
protests where they are calling for Palestine from the river to
the sea. This is calling for the destruction of the state of
Israel. They are calling for an intifada, a violent uprising.
There is a vigil and a walkout to honor the Palestinian
martyrs, those that are killed fighting against Israel. And
then finally, a faculty senate statement published that was
really, I think--the end message was that the university should
not cave to Jewish donors who are demanding change.
This is unbelievable, that it is taking place at Penn. It
is unbelievable that it is taking place in America, and it is
just a microcosm of what we are watching across the country.
Mr. FITZPATRICK. Thank you, Doctor.
Mr. Dror, moving to social media, obviously there has been
a rise in anti-Semitic language on social media platforms,
TikTok probably being the biggest offender, although not the
only one by any stretch, which has been used as a tool for
Hamas--a wholly-owned subsidiary of the CCP, by the way. If you
could, talk to me about what you have seen at your university.
What are--where are these young people--it is not just dance
videos, right? They are getting--they are now getting their
news from TikTok and some of these other social platforms,
which is wholly controlled by a chief adversary of the United
States and Israel.
So talk to me about the social media impact here that--
specifically, the impact it is having on college campuses.
Ms. DROR. Yes, absolutely. This is actually really funny,
because I deleted my TikTok three days ago. I was always a huge
user of it, and there was a point where I deleted it and then
redownloaded it, and it changed my whole algorithm. Like, it
refines an algorithm for you based on the type of videos you
enjoy watching. And so the ones that I didn't enjoy watching, I
would filter out. And I got funny TikToks for a while, and then
I deleted it, redownloaded it. And every single video was
essentially glorifying the brutal massacre of October 7.
Unfortunately, you are right. This is the news source that
students turn to. This is what college students are looking at
in between their classes when they are bored, and they are
seeing glorification of terrorism all over their social media.
And then we are seeing their professors glorify terrorism and
reinforce those ideas.
And so, unfortunately, social media is absolutely
contributing to the need for a recalibration of the moral
compasses of students and professors everywhere.
Mr. FITZPATRICK. Well, you will be pleased to hear that, in
my role in the House Intelligence Committee, we will be
subpoenaing the algorithm of TikTok to get answers to a lot of
these questions.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman SMITH [presiding]. Ms. Chu is recognized.
Ms. CHU. First, I want to say thank you to our witnesses
for being here today and bravely sharing your experiences. No
one should be targeted or made to feel unsafe because of who
they are. There is no room for hate and anti-Semitism in this
country or anywhere.
I just met with the hostage families two hours ago, and I
heard from the family of Abigail Idan, only three years old
when the Hamas attacked her father, fell on top of her to
protect her but was murdered, and then she was kidnaped. These
horrific stories are just unbelievable.
And then there is what is happening in my State of
California, which is reflective of what is happening in the
United States. At UCLA earlier this month, students were
recorded chanting horrific anti-Semitic language through a
megaphone. We heard reports about Jewish students at UC
Berkeley, UC Davis, and San Jose State being physically
attacked, and Jewish students at UC San Diego who needed a
police escort to safely leave a student meeting.
These and other horrific incidents on college campuses
across the country have impacted the climate of schools and are
threatening Jewish students' safety on their own campuses. In
fact, just the other day in my own district the Hillel at the
Claremont Colleges sent an email to its members with
recommendations on how to be safe on campus, including
suggesting in some cases it may be safest for students to stay
inside and skip classes. I thank Hillel for working to keep
students safe, but no person anywhere should be forced to stay
home out of fear of being attacked because of who they are. We
cannot tolerate these anti-Semitic incidents.
And Islamophobic incidents also, as like the unconscionable
murder of the six-year-old Palestinian-American boy last month,
or any instance of race-based hatred and discrimination.
And I can relate to this because for the last three years
there have been anti-Asian hate crimes and incidents, and they
included slander, insults, assaults, and killings. And there
were 11,500 of them because of Asians being blamed for COVID-
19.
So, the first person I must thank is Jonathan Greenblatt
and ADL because, as these were starting to happen, you actually
were the first organization to speak up and offer your support
amid a rise in anti-Asian hate and bigotry during the pandemic.
And it meant so much to our communities and helped us make real
progress toward protecting vulnerable communities across the
United States from hate crimes. And that is what led us to work
hard to pass the COVID-19 Hate Crimes Act, which included my
bill, the No Hate Act, and to have a major piece of hate crime
legislation in 30 years to improve the ability for victims to
be able to report, and for law enforcement to be able to also
more actively prosecute and also report these hate crimes.
Now, as a result of this law--well, for one thing, it
created a new program to support state-based hotlines for
victims to report crimes. But so far, only two states,
California and Illinois, have established these systems.
And then it actually also provided money to train every law
enforcement agency in this country to report hate crimes
through the National Incident-Based Reporting System, or NIBRS.
But we still have a ways to go. There are 87 jurisdictions
that still have not implemented this system. And without full
participation in these new programs, we will not have a full
understanding of hate crimes across this country and our
response to incidents like this anti-Semitism that is happening
on campuses will be incomplete.
So, Mr. Greenblatt, as I discussed, the COVID-19 Hate
Crimes Act and the No Hate Act was born out of an alarming rise
in anti-Asian hate crimes during the height of the COVID-19
pandemic. And it will help us better address all hate crimes,
including anti-Semitic incidents. Can you talk about why it is
important for all state and local jurisdictions to fully
participate in these programs by reporting crimes to the NIBRS
database and setting up these hate crime-reporting hotlines in
order to allow the Federal Government to have a comprehensive
response to rising anti-Semitism and all forms of hate?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes. So, Congresswoman, thank you for the
question. Thank you for your leadership on the No Hate Act. ADL
was proud to work with you and with all members of the Asian-
American, the AAPI Caucus, on that important piece of
legislation.
Look, data drives policy. And the fact of the matter is 85-
some-odd percent of municipalities do not report any hate
crimes, or affirmatively report zero every year. And bad data
in means bad policy out. So this needs to change.
So yes, I mean, I think Director Wray was testifying on the
Hill today. Pushing the FBI and pushing law enforcement
agencies to make sure they are reporting hate crimes helps all
of us. And so more of it needs to happen so we have an accurate
picture of the situation on the ground and, therefore, can
build the right policies and programs in response to that.
Ms. CHU. Thank you.
Chairman SMITH. Ms. Tenney is recognized.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I just want to say
thanks to the witnesses.
Every one of you has been phenomenal in various ways. I got
about eight pages of questions I would like to ask, but I would
like to first state a few things and--just to talk about the
shameful state of anti-Semitism that has flourished in our
nation's universities, including in my own backyard.
After the horrific attacks on Israel by Hamas on October 7,
we have witnessed at numerous universities, including some in
my own state of New York--thank you to Ms. Dror for being
here--that have allowed hate-filled anti-Semitic demonstrations
in support of terrorist groups like Hamas to circulate across
the campus.
Demonstrators outside of the Maxwell School at Syracuse
University chanted, ``From the river to the sea, Palestine will
be free,'' an anti-Semitic rallying cry long used by terrorist
groups to call for the violent destruction of the state of
Israel and the Jewish people, as Ms. Tishby so accurately
described today from a personal viewpoint.
The same was witnessed at the University of Rochester,
which I surround with my sprawling district in upstate New
York, with a group known as Students for Justice in Palestine,
which we have discussed a lot today, hosting increasingly
vitriolic and menacing demonstrations. The university has done
little or nothing to condemn these hate-filled actions, and
students, especially Jewish students, are rightfully fearing
for their own safety.
In the wake of the Hamas attack--and I want to reference
Ms. Dror here, and thank you so much for your courage to be out
and be standing up early in this incident--and I don't think
that we can state this enough--a professor at Cornell
University, Russell Rickford--we should say his name--referred
to the slaughter of Israeli civilians by Hamas as energizing
and exhilarating--you have heard that from a number of Members
of Congress today--while speaking at a pro-Palestine protest on
Cornell's campus.
After these disgraceful comments, I wrote a letter to the
Cornell University president demanding Professor Rickford's
immediate resignation or removal. But to my knowledge, he has
only been placed on leave from the university. But I consider
that step one.
And I am so grateful for your continued advocacy, Ms. Dror,
and your willingness to proudly talk about your own religious
beliefs and something that is--I think we need to talk about
this, and I think everybody sort of touched on it--Mr.
Greenblatt, as well.
It was part of a university board. I went to Colgate
University. My dad is a graduate of Cornell Law School. My
brother went to Syracuse. We have all been educated in upstate
New York, which has a wonderful tradition of secondary schools.
But I remember something called the Chicago Principles about
First Amendment principles. And many colleges and universities
would not adopt them. It was a protocol for free speech, but
there were certain exemptions in that. And some of those were
incitement, defamation, threats, and others to students. But
this would give students freedom to express their religious and
other views, but also the protection that the First Amendment
actually affords all of us to be able to speak freely and why
we revere this country.
But I am concerned that--and I know that everybody has put
out all these wonderful--I know that Ms. Tishby put out three
things that we could do kick these hate groups off campus,
evidence linking state police, FBI. How can they enjoy the warm
welcome of Congress? Excellent question. We ask that ourselves
every day.
And also, Mr. Greenblatt, you laid out four things. And one
of the things that--number one was to pass legislation to
implement a national strategy. Well, some of our colleagues
have actually done that today. But how can we get something
like the Chicago Principles and protocol in place at
universities so that we do respect free speech? It is very
important.
I am the mother of a Marine. There was--the Westboro
Baptist Church used to go and celebrate the death of our
honorably serving service members. That is hate speech, in a
way, but it is also First Amendment protected. How do we do
this in such a way that we don't incite violence, that we
protect our students? What are the strategies?
And I would love to ask, if I can--I am kind of running out
of time--if you can answer quickly, what is your first--how do
we do this in, like, maybe a sentence or two?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Who is the question directed to?
Ms. TENNEY. First Mr. Greenblatt, because you suggested
let's pass a national strategy. Would the Chicago Principles
help?
Mr. GREENBLATT. They would. I mean, again, I think hate
speech is the price of free speech. Things we detest are things
we have to be willing to hear. But there is something
profoundly wrong with creating spaces in which the students
have to shelter in their dorms for being--fear of harassment.
This isn't some game like Wordle or something like that. This
is real life, and there are real consequences. Chicago
Principles, forcing all schools to adopt them, would help
enormously.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you.
I will just say, Mr. Lehman, could you just--I know you
have been working on this issue. Could you--what is your
strategy for this? How can we do something?
Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, it is a great question. And I will first
point out that at Syracuse we actually had the demonization of
Jewish organizations like Hillel, like the Greek organizations
claiming that they are genocidal. This is where we are--and
part of the reason we are in such a rut.
In terms of quickly pointing out strategy, we have a campus
climate initiative. This, again, doesn't need to be that hard.
If universities would hard-code into their own policies that
brighter line around how we protect free speech, we need it, we
want it on campus, but be super clear, number one, around where
that line is being breached in terms of incitement, in terms of
harassment. And title 6 already gets us a good part of the way
there. Is there this pervasive, hostile, and discriminatory
environment? So let's, you know, fund to make sure we can
enforce title 6, let's create the bright lines.
And then, I think if we have that basis, let's discipline.
Because that is the other thing we don't see, which is
university leaders actually enforce the rules that are already
in place.
Ms. TENNEY. Thank you, I respect that, I just think the
need to balance--that we feel we need to balance virulent anti-
Semitism with the counter of Islamophobia. What happened on
these college campuses is not Islamophobia. This is direct,
virulent anti-Semitism. And, as you say, full stop, Mr.
Schanzer.
I just want to say thank you all. You have been terrific
and insightful, and I hope that everyone out there is watching
in the listening audience of Congress.
Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you for that last point. It is very
important. Anti-Semitism is a problem, full stop.
Chairman SMITH. We need to--answer that quickly, and we
will move on.
Mrs. Fischbach.
Mrs. FISCHBACH. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank
you to all of our witnesses.
It has--you know, we have been here a little while, and you
have been more than gracious to answer questions. And so I am
not going to take too much time. But I will tell you we are
committed to helping.
As a college student, there is nothing--you should not be
having to deal with and face this on college campuses. Parents
send their kids to college thinking they are going to be safe.
And so I just--my heart goes out to you and to your family. And
I think the most striking thing that you said was when you
talked about my family's life savings is going to that college.
And so please understand we will do what we can to help.
And so that was--and Ms. Tenney kind of touched on it, and
so I kind of wanted to just maybe open it up. And I know that
Mr. Greenblatt wanted to, but what is the--what is one thing,
maybe, since we are late and I don't want to keep you any
longer than you have to, but the one thing that we can do?
And Mr. Lehman, you mentioned some.
But Mr. Greenblatt, you wanted to add to that, I thought,
when you were cut off.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Well, look, I think anti-Semitism needs to
be called out full stop, just like we call out racism and don't
say--and you also need to tackle such and such. Yes, there are
lots of problems, but we are here to talk about anti-Semitism,
and let's stay focused on the problem.
So what is one thing to do? Stop the flow of dark charity,
like Dr. Schanzer talked about.
Mrs. FISCHBACH. Yes. And Ms. Tishby?
Ms. TISHBY. There is another thing that all college
campuses should do, and that is adopt IRA.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
Ms. TISHBY. We have----
Mr. GREENBLATT. Hear, hear.
Ms. TISBHY [continuing]. An international Holocaust
Remembrance Alliance. We have the working definition of what
anti-Semitism is because a lot of people don't actually know
what it means. They don't know what anti-Semitism is. They
don't understand that it is not just racism, it is not just
looking down at someone. It is also conspiratorially looking up
at someone.
So, if you say the Jews control the money, the Jews control
the power, the Jews control the media, that is anti-Semitic,
and that is not a compliment. When the Jewish community hears
that, we get freaked out because we know what is coming right
after that. We have heard this for generations.
Adopt IRA. Every college should adopt IRA. We are going to
have a much easier time identifying anti-Semitism and fighting
against it.
Mrs. FISCHBACH. Well, thank you very much.
And does anybody else have anything they want to add? I
know you are tired. I know.
Ms. TISHBY. We can do this for hours. [Laughter.]
Mrs. FISCHBACH. Well, I appreciate that. I appreciate the
energy.
Mr. Lehman.
Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, if I might. I mean, again, we will go back
to title 6 enforcement because I have spoken to enough
university leaders to know that, you know, accountability
matters. And a lot of people have spoken about taking away
Federal funds. That is the consequence of title 6 violations.
So I would go back to that.
And I would also say something that we have got to get to
on the other side of this, which is education, promoting
dialogue across difference. It is not something Congress can
enforce, but what you can do is deal with taking the hate away
from these focused, funded groups that are poisoning campus.
Once we remove that, we actually create the space for students
to start learning from one another, understanding one another.
And that is what we need, ultimately, to get to where we have
the healthy environment we are all looking for.
Mrs. FISCHBACH. And, Doctor, you had something to add?
Mr. SCHANZER. Yes. Look, what I would say here is we need
to focus on the organizations that embrace the ideology of
Hamas. Hamas is a litmus test. If you are an American that are
embraced--if you are embracing the ideology of Hamas, the
actions of Hamas, if you are lionizing the leaders of Hamas,
you are anti-Semitic. This is an organization that is dedicated
to the destruction of the Jewish state and nothing else.
And we see far too many organizations out there talking
about Hamas as freedom fighters, or how they are some kind of a
legitimate organization operating in Gaza. None of the above.
They are a violent terrorist organization that is dedicated to
the destruction of the only Jewish state on the map.
Mr. LEHMAN. If I may, one other quick thing that I don't
think has been said enough here, which is Congress has shown
enormous leadership, as has this administration, in supporting
the legitimate right of Israel to defend itself, in continuing
to show a moral compass in terms of condemning Hamas for its
atrocious and unbelievable acts of terrorism. And that
leadership is important to balance what is, unfortunately, not
being said by too many university leaders, and literally the
opposite that they are sometimes hearing in classrooms.
So I applaud all of you for what you are doing in that
regard.
Mrs. FISCHBACH. And I will wrap up by just saying again
thank you.
Mr. GREENBLATT. Thank you.
Mrs. FISCHBACH. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for
being so strong. And God bless.
And with that, I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Ms. Van Duyne.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank
you to our witnesses--I know you have already been here for
hours--but for taking the time to be here with us today. And it
is a shame that we actually have to hold a hearing on this
topic at all.
Condemning anti-Semitism and the acts of evil committed by
Hamas, including the slaughter of women, children, and elderly
should be easy. But sadly, we have seen so many hesitant or
outright refuse to do so. And worse, we have seen instances
where Hamas's disgusting atrocities are cheered. And those who
do so should be ashamed.
You refer to them as killers. I would refer to them as
savages, as barbarians, as butchers, and as animals. We should
be able to say that.
I am thankful to have seen most of my colleagues stand
together in our support for Israel in the face of these
horrific attacks. But since Hamas began its barbaric assault on
Israel on October 7, we have seen nearly a 400 percent rise in
incidents of anti-Semitism across the U.S., compared to last
year, and the majority of those have been on college campuses.
And, Ms. Dror, I applaud you for being here today. As a
fellow Cornellian, I graduated at a time--it was the best four
years of my life. I loved that university, and it was a liberal
university at that point, but never did I ever walk on that
quad and not feel safe. I am embarrassed, what is going on in
that campus today. I cannot believe how much it has changed.
And I think to myself, why? Why has it changed in those--I am
not even going to say how many years, you are quite a few years
younger than I am.
But I think, what has happened? You know, they have
embraced these diversity and equity and inclusion programs.
That has been heralded. But what is really going on in these
campuses? What is really being taught at these campuses? And
why are we having students who come out and are willing to
defend these barbarians, these savages, these horrific acts?
How is that possible? This is what they are learning.
And then you have got professors like our history
professor, Russell Rickford, and you recognize this is why,
because this is what they are teaching on our college campuses
today. This is exactly what they are teaching us: to hate, to
be exhilarated with these savage acts, to defend people who are
beheading children. This is what they are teaching our
students. And at the same time, they are getting Federal
taxpayer dollars to do it. Why are we putting up with that? Why
are we allowing that? You know, having a 501(c) organization
and, therefore--you are expected to abide by these ethical
standards that are supposed to promote the public good.
When I am looking at what is happening to you, Ms. Dror,
and I am looking at what is happening to students across the
country, where they are being harassed, where they are having
to lock themselves in to not be harmed by other students, that
is not for the public good. When I am seeing professors that
are acting like that and not being immediately fired, that is
not for the public good. What year are you?
Ms. DROR. I am a junior, but I am graduating this year.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. So you are trying to get out of there as
fast as you can.
Ms. DROR. Oh, yes. [Laughter.]
Ms. VAN DUYNE. That is--that is a shame. I mean, that is a
shame that you are having to do that. Were you not as surprised
as I was when they did not immediately fire Professor Russell
Rickford?
Ms. DROR. Unfortunately, I wasn't really surprised. I mean,
there are a lot of competing interests. We have spoken about
money from Qatar. Cornell gets $1.8 billion from Qatar. We have
a medical school there. There are a lot of competing interests,
which I am excited to have heard people express support to
investigate.
I have been very disappointed, and I really enjoyed my time
at Cornell prior to the October 7 attacks and sitting in my
classes realizing that my peers want my family dead.
Ms. VAN DUYNE. And I can't believe I am going to say this.
But parents, for a university that I revered so much, parents,
don't send your kids to colleges, to universities that are
going to teach them this hate. Businesses, don't hire students
that promote this kind of behavior. And alumni like me, stop
sending your money to institutions that hate and are going to
teach students to hate America and everything we stand for, and
our partners, our advocates, our strongest allies like Israel.
Ms. DROR. There is just one thing I want to say to that. I
see, like, the school that I attended, I attended a Jewish high
school. They have, like, lists, I have heard, right now of
schools that you shouldn't be attending because there are,
like, high anti-Semitism rates. So it is a high-risk school, so
you shouldn't go. You are seeing elite schools on that list.
You are seeing Cornell, you are seeing Penn, you are seeing
Harvard.
But what that is getting to is no Jewish students being
able to go to elite universities where they get the opportunity
to then go into--I mean, why do you go to an elite university?
Because you want to get a good job, because you want to make
good connections. Why are Jewish students not afforded that
right, if their tuition dollars are the same?
Ms. VAN DUYNE. And I am sorry, my time has expired, but
thank you very much for being here today. Thank you for all of
you.
And I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Ms. Moore.
Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and let me
thank the witnesses for their patience and indulgence.
I just want to say to you, Ms. Talia, don't let anybody
steal your joy, girl. You enjoy your last year at Cornell. Your
parents' money paid for that education. And it sounds to me
like you are a very intelligent, learned person, and you could
teach somebody something and be an example.
And I do think that we do have laws. I am going to make
inquiries about title 6 and what the enforcement mechanisms are
for that. But I do have a question, and perhaps it is not for
you, Talia. Perhaps it is for Mr.--Dr. Schanzer.
These demonstrations, these anti-Semitic demonstrations on
campuses, are they largely led by student organizations or
spontaneous things, or are they actually things that are
supported by the university? I think that is a materially
important thing to try to understand.
Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman.
They are organized at a grassroots level by some of the groups
that I mentioned today in my spoken and written testimony.
What is so frustrating is that these chapters--
specifically, we are talking about Students for Justice in
Palestine--many of them actually get student activities fees
from the universities.
Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. And that is my point. So it is not
like it is sanctioned by the presidents of these universities.
So that just leads me to the discussion of your work, Dr.
Schanzer, with the Foundations for the Defense of Democracy.
You were formerly at the Treasury Department with----
Mr. SCHANZER. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin [continuing]. With OFAC?
Mr. SCHANZER. Yes.
Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. You know, this is very frightening,
to think that we have to rely on you to identify terrorist
organizations, as opposed to the Treasury Department. What--how
big is the footprint of OFAC, particularly as some has
described about our movement away from the war on terror?
How--what--how many employees, or how many people in the
Treasury Department are on this so that, you know, something
innocuous like the Holy Land Foundation or KindHearts for
charitable development--I mean, it doesn't sound mean to me.
How far is the reach of Treasury Department into these kinds of
organizations to stop them from funding these kinds of
activities?
Mr. SCHANZER. Thank you for this question. It is really
important that you ask it, and I will try to be brief here.
In the 2000s, when I worked there, we did tackle some of
the domestic groups that were operating here in the United
States, like Holy Land, KindHearts, et cetera. By the end of
that decade, we stopped doing that through the Treasury. It
became the jurisdiction of the Department of Justice and the
FBI to look at entities that were operating inside this
country. It wasn't just good enough to freeze assets, and it
was actually even a bit complicated----
Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. Let me stop, because the Chairman
to cut me off.
So, we had a big funding of IRS agents. This is one of the
things that they could be trying to analyze. But you say it is
no longer the jurisdiction?
Mr. SCHANZER. Not in the terror finance department. IRS, I
think it could be quite helpful.
Ms. MOORE of Wisconsin. If we had--you know, Mr. Chairman,
we need the money.
I just want to say, before my time has run out, that I am
the product of people protesting and dissenting and exercising
their First Amendment rights. The college and university I went
to, you know, it was White German kids and White Irish
Catholics that protested on Marquette's campus, along with the
Black football players, to try to get somebody like me an
opportunity to go to college. And they gathered at Saint
Joan's, a church on campus. They had bread and water feasts.
You know, their parents were terrified because their kids were
hungry, going hungry, and they wouldn't eat anything but bread
and water until the university responded to the need to have
somebody other than Black basketball players, and that was
during the Al McGuire days, when, you know, Black athletes were
at a premium at Marquette, and only White kids. So I just want
to say I really think it is important for us to draw a line,
and that is why I asked the question that I asked, you know, so
that schools are not just summarily punished for free speech.
There are uncomfortable conversations, Mr. Greenblatt. If I
were to sit here right now and call out some racist stuff that
I see that happens every day in Congress, they would be out
there censuring me on the floor. And all I am asking for is
just to tell me today you are going to censure me so I can have
my hair done and the outfit that I want to wear, because I am
not trying to be, you know, funny here.
I am just trying to say that I think it is extremely
important that we preserve people's right to petition their
government. But at the same time, every student everywhere
ought to have the right to learn without being intimidated and
without being harmed, and that is the promise of America, that
you can learn, and earn, and do it, girlfriend, do it and hold
your head high. You tell them that Gwen Moore told you to do
it.
I yield back. [Applause.]
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Feenstra.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And amen, Ms. Moore,
thank you for your comments. I applaud you for those. I agree
with you.
I just want to also thank our witnesses, and thank you for
taking the time to be here. My heart bleeds, it hurts. I was in
Israel, I was at a kibbutz that saw the atrocities, and I can't
imagine the humanity and how this can occur.
But I do know this. I do know that it is America's job to
protect and support our dearest allies in Israel, and that
includes financial support, it includes stopping all forms of
intimidation, and it also is about stopping the flow of money
from American organizations to terrorists whose sole purpose is
to annihilate Israel.
The Federal Government has its--has several entities
responsible for tracking illicit funding, and we need to be
assessing and strengthening and building on these, and stopping
what is occurring. So, Mr. Schanzer, I know you have talked
about this in length already, but I want to look for solutions.
We can talk about what is all happening. We all get it. We have
heard it. But what are the solutions? What can we do to track
it down?
And do you see any new technologies, anything that we can
use, whether it be AI or whatever, that we as Congress can act
upon?
Mr. SCHANZER. Congressman Feenstra, if you are referring to
the activities of some of these extremist groups and how we can
stop them, look, I think part of it is about perhaps reforming
the tax code, not giving 501(c)(3) breaks to organizations that
we know are embracing hate speech and targeting specific
sectors of American society. That should be beyond the pale. I
don't think you need AI for that, right?
Mr. FEENSTRA. Right.
Mr. SCHANZER. That is a fairly----
Mr. FEENSTRA. That is simple, absolutely.
Mr. SCHANZER. Straightforward.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Correct.
Mr. SCHANZER. Now from there, we have got--I think it is a
murkier question, right? You have got to--when you start seeing
organizations that have connections to terrorist groups in the
past, terrorist charities in the past, there has got to be
follow-up. And that requires the bureaucracy, that requires
resources.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Mr. SCHANZER. And I know those resources are tougher and
tougher to come by. But I do think, as I said before, I think
we have got to figure out how to walk and chew gum.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Mr. SCHANZER. We should be able to do great power
competition while also tracking the potential terrorist groups
or extremist groups or hate groups that are terrorizing entire
sectors of American society.
Mr. FEENSTRA. That is right. I agree with you 100 percent.
And we have got to be active. I mean, we ought to talk. We talk
a great game, but we have got to do it, and we can do many of
those things. I know you talked about this a little bit in your
testimony, but----
Mr. SCHANZER. Yes, and, if I can add one thing, Congressman
Feenstra, as well, which is AI needs to be better deployed in
terms of basic security.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Mr. SCHANZER. You know, we have seen so many issues,
obviously, in broader society, but including on campus, where
it is not rocket science to trace and see where those threats
and issues are originating. And I would love to see, frankly,
college students who are bright like Talia----
Mr. FEENSTRA. Absolutely.
Mr. SCHANZER [continued]. Deployed, but we have even more
resources at a Federal Government level. Let's take those
resources, start understanding where the threats are
originating, and that will help organizations like Hillel and
all universities do a better job of defending them.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Absolutely.
Ms. Dror, I want to get to you, and I just want to say
something that--I have three children in college, all right,
your age. And it pains me to hear what is going on, right? I
send my kids to college, I never worry about their safety, nor
should I, as a dad. Right? But you and your parents, that is
scary. It is scary stuff.
Now my question for you--and I will ask Mr. Lehman, too,
but Ms. Dror, these universities--and I know your university
has this, too, I mean, we promote this idea of DEI, right?
Diversity, inclusion, equity, equality. Has this come out at
all in your institution of saying, ``Are you protecting
yourself and all these great students that are there?''
Ms. DROR. Following the death threats the university has
taken a greater initiative to integrate Jewish students into
their DEI efforts. Those have been appreciated.
In terms of the anonymous platforms, I did want to say----
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Ms. DROR [continuing]. Sidechat is very much used at
Cornell. So is Greek Rank.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Ms. DROR. The threats were made on Greek Rank.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Ms. DROR. These are anonymous posting platforms in which
students don't have their names attached to what they are
saying.
I have seen so much horrific--like, I opened up Sidechat,
like, to look at jokes----
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes, yes.
Ms. DROR [continuing]. To look at people making fun of
professors, to look at funny things. I am met with the word
``Zionism'' used as a curse word every single day and every
single post, and students are not being held accountable for
it.
Mr. FEENSTRA. That is so sad.
Ms. DROR. Posts that are deeply anti-Semitic, posts that
have roots to Jews running the money, like, these deeply anti-
Semitic tropes, have over 300 upvotes.
Mr. FEENSTRA. Yes.
Ms. DROR. People who are hiding behind their cell phones
are upvoting anti-Semitic comments. These anonymous platforms
are widely used by students. Maybe they shouldn't be.
Mr. FEENSTRA. No, and I agree. And I was on a university--I
was a professor, and I checked these chats, too, because,
obviously, they destroy professors. That is nothing. I can
handle that, right? But what is happening on those Sidechats--
and anonymous, right? People hiding and saying and destroying
other students is completely uncalled for, and our universities
have got to take note and stop this. I know my university that
I was part of, we stopped some of these Sidechats because it is
completely wrong.
Thank you, I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Ms. Malliotakis is recognized.
Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Well, thank you all for being here. This
is an incredibly important discussion that needs to be had. It
needs to be exposed, and we must all work together to find
solutions.
I find it incredibly disturbing, disheartening,
heartbreaking to see the anti-Semitism that is occurring right
here in this country, in the United States of America, full on
display. And you know what? It is college campuses, but it is
larger than that. I mean, we are seeing it, you know,
institutions that were respected, right? The United Nations,
for example, Congress, colleges, and universities.
We have to work together to figure out--we need to have, as
you mentioned, a definition, parameters, and solutions.
I think that some of the things that we have been seeing
for this next generation, certainly on our college campuses,
are disturbing. And we have mentioned a few of those horrific
threats, assaults, incidents that have happened in
universities. The University of Maryland may have been one of
the worst, referencing Holocaust 2.0, but some happening in my
own state of New York. Unfortunately, too many of it--Cornell
University.
Thank you for coming today and your bravery to speak. You
are very impressive, and I imagine we are going to see great
things from you in the future.
But looking at what happened at Columbia University when an
Israeli student was attacked outside the library; hundreds of
professors signing a letter supporting Hamas terror; NYU,
Cooper Union, Jewish students had to be locked in a library for
their own safety. You know, we can go on and on.
And one of the worst examples that didn't happen after
October 7 but before was at City University of New York. All
right? We had--the law school last year thought it was a good
idea to have an anti-Semitic graduation speaker who actually
said, ``I want to celebrate CUNY law as one of the few, if not
the only, law school to make a public statement defending the
right of its students to organize and speak out against Israeli
settler colonization. This is the law school that passed and
endorsed BDS on the student and faculty level, recognizing
that, absent a critical imperialism settler colony lens, our
work and this school's mission statement is void of value.'' I
mean, this is what they are saying at graduations at our
college universities.
So the answer, what is the answer? We talked about some
solutions today. I would like to know. I mean, do you think we
should be--first of all, we have to define it, right? And then
you mentioned the IHRA definition. I have actually just
sponsored legislation that would require the Department of
Education, require these universities to follow that
definition, because we need to have parameters, right, or else
it always is a slippery slope.
But I think we need to use that definition and then go
after these institutions and strip Federal funding from
colleges and institutions that allow, that fund, that
facilitate events that promote anti-Semitism, or have
professors that teach it to our young people.
The fact that, you know, they are teaching our young people
that Hamas, that they are freedom fighters, that they are not a
terrorist organization, that is what they are teaching our
young people, and it is disgraceful.
What about Federal financial aid? Should we be prohibiting
that aid from being used at such institutions? Those are
American tax dollars. Maybe they should be going to better
universities that are not teaching these things to our people.
So maybe we want to prohibit that.
Maybe we should be rescinding tax exempt status from these
institutions and organizations.
And maybe we should be looking to see if these are
foreign--any foreign students that have a student visa, maybe
it should be revoked if they are participating in this anti-
Semitism on our college campuses.
I would love to hear your responses to those four ideas,
and we will start with you, Ms. Dror.
Ms. DROR. Like I said before, I am not a legal policy
expert, so I am going to defer to the actual legal policy
experts. But I am----
Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Mr. Lehman?
Mr. LEHMAN. Yes, thank you. As we have been discussing,
title 6 enforcement does actually invoke several of those
remedies in terms of financial penalty. That has to be a part
of the equation. Let's use what we have available.
I also want to go back to a prior question about DEI and
briefly just point out the world is upside down. We have DEI
offices who specifically, in the wake of October 7, made a
point of celebrating resistance and alienating their Jewish
student communities. It is literally backwards. So apart from
financial penalties, if there are ways to hold DEI offices
accountable to provide the same protection for Jewish students
that they should be affording to every other minority.
Ms. TISHBY. I definitely support revoking visa status. As
an immigrant to this country and a proud American, I had to go
through a rigmarole in order to become a citizen. I think that
it should be revoked, and I need to be--we need to make sure
that they are not using our democracy against us. They are
using the democracy against us. We can't allow that to happen.
Mr. GREENBLATT. We should do as much as we can. I think
everything from adopting IRA to implementing DEI, to title 6
remedies.
I don't know enough about revoking people's student visas,
but again, the full force of the law will make these
universities listen.
Ms. MALLIOTAKIS. Thank you.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Schneider.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Thank you, and let me thank the witnesses
for your patience, but also your clarity here. I am going to
kind of run through and maybe jump around.
Ms. Talia, Ms. Dror, thank you. Something maybe you didn't
expect to hear from the podium, but [speaking foreign
language], you have been wonderful. Are those your parents
behind you?
Ms. DROR. They are, yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. You should be very proud of your daughter.
My kids, my sons, are a decade ahead of you. My oldest son
is a Dartmouth grad and is at Harvard Law School.
Mr. Lehman, I thought you would appreciate that.
We are from Chicago. My physical therapist is someone named
Jennifer Cohn. Her husband, Charles, works with you. She says
hello. I am going to have connections with all of you before I
am done here. [Laughter.]
Mr. SCHNEIDER. But I want to thank you. My younger son went
to Muhlenberg and--School, also with a large Jewish population.
They were a decade earlier, so it was a different experience.
But he had a classmate named--from Chicago named Madison Polin,
and her cousin, Hersch Goldberg Polin, is a captive in Gaza
right now. You may have heard his story. He lost his arm. We
need to get the Red Cross into seeing those captives. We need
to get those captives home today. Yesterday, in fact.
Ms. TISHBY, you touched on the fact 240--the youngest one
is--well, was taken at 9 months, is now----
Ms. TISHBY. Nine months, yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Ten months old.
Ms. TISHBY. Ten months old. And also----
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Wait, don't take--this is my story. I am
teasing. But he is not the youngest one anymore.
Ms. TISHBY. I know.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. There was a woman who was eight months
pregnant when she was taken captive, and we believe that she
has now given birth. So the youngest captive is someone who is,
God willing, alive, and yet has spent every day of that baby's
life a captive of Hamas, and must be able to come home.
Ms. TISHBY. Bring them home.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Bring them home.
One of my colleagues mentioned that anti-Semitism wasn't an
issue when we were in school. I went to school a long time ago,
40 years ago at Northwestern, which I am going to come back to
in a second. Anti-Semitism has always been an issue. It just
hasn't always been front and center. It hasn't been open. It
hasn't been so accepted. And today, not only is it open and
accepted--and I take this term from someone I saw screaming
about it in the UK--it is fashion. It is fashionable to be
anti-Semitic, and the high anti-Semitism now is anti-Zionism.
And people are celebrating.
And I think Natan Sharansky, who was there yesterday, had a
chance to speak with--for a little bit. His three days of
demonization, delegitimization, and double standard hits it
right on the head. And, Dr. Schanzer, the last time we were
together I did a march through history going back to the 3,000
years that the Jews have been in the land of Israel. I am going
to go the reverse area. In this, I will start with Ms. Tishby.
Israel was created what year?
Ms. TISHBY. In 1948, it reemerged.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. And Google is a wonderful thing. Your
grandmother was the founder of a kibbutz, Degania.
Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. What year was Degania created?
Ms. TISHBY. Degania was created in----
Mr. SCHNEIDER. In 1910.
Ms. TISHBY [continuing]. 1910, yes. I was going to say
1908, but--yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. It was a community that pre-dated the state
of Israel and is still there.
Ms. TISHBY. There has been Jewish presence in the Land of
Israel for generations, forever.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. So we are on the same wavelength because I
was going to go to Tzfat.
Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. And what is Tzfat famous for?
Ms. TISHBY. Kabbalah.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Kabbalah. The Jews that came to Tzfat at
that time, where did they come from?
Ms. TISHBY. Jerusalem and----
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Spain.
Ms. TISHBY. Or Spain, yes, yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes, they came from Spain----
Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER [continuing]. Because they were kicked out of
Spain in the 16th century. But Tzfat was one of the four holy
cities at the time of the Bible, 2,000 years ago. Jews have
been in the land of Israel for 3,000 years. And I mention that
because that is what we are talking about here on campuses,
this argument that Israel is a colonial enterprise, a post-
colonial--I don't even know the words they say. It is not, it
is----
Ms. TISHBY. Settler colonialist.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. So--thank you. That is----
Ms. DROR. Apartheid oppressor.
Ms. TISHBY. Yes.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes.
Ms. TISHBY. And the last bastion of settler colonialism
that needs to be----
Mr. SCHNEIDER. Yes, even though it is a place where Jews
have lived for so long.
So, Mr. Lehman, if I can touch on you in--last here, free
speech--as a lawyer, free speech is not always acceptable. You
can't yell ``fire'' in a crowded theater. It is the idea of
fighting words. And I looked it up--from Cornell's website, in
fact--but fighting words are words meant to incite violence
such as they may not be protected free speech under the First
Amendment. The U.S. Supreme Court first defined them in
Chaplinsky versus New Hampshire, 1942 as words ``by their very
utterance, inflict injury or tend to incite immediate breach of
the peace.''
Mr. Lehman, are we seeing that on college campuses and are
there things that universities can do to address it?
Mr. LEHMAN. Yes. Well, say hello to Jennifer Cohn. I saw
her husband, who is a fantastic Hillel director, on Sunday.
Charles.
But on this issue, we are seeing it. And again, what is so
problematic is we are seeing it in hundreds of campuses, with
hundreds of instances of hate speech. We have documented them,
and they are hate speech that exactly crosses the line you are
describing because they are inciting violence. The words are
around, you know, genocide of and by Jews, and the words are
directed at Jews in a way that, frankly, never asked them, by
the way, what they think about the Middle East.
No one ever says, ``What do you think about the two-state
solution?'' No one ever says, ``Are you empathetic to
Palestinians? Do you care about their rights and future, as
well?'' All they do is treat Jewish students in these cases as
these horrible baby killers, and it has to stop. And that is,
again, what we are trying to.
Mr. SCHNEIDER. I wish I had more time to talk more. I will
say Northwestern has--they got it wrong at first. They are
creating an anti-Semitism task force, finally, and taking
steps. I think that is what schools can do. Mr. Greenblatt, you
have it in your testimony, and I will highlight it, as well.
Thank you all very much.
I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Carey is recognized.
Mr. CAREY. I want to thank the chairman. I want to thank
also the ranking member for allowing this committee to be put
together.
And I think, if you have seen anything from this body
today, in the words of one of the singers from the--he is still
a singer, but there was a song that said there is no monopoly
on common sense on either side of the political fence, and I
think you have seen that from all of us today.
You know, over the last month there have been multiple
instances of anti-Semitism and crimes committed against the
Jewish community in and around central Ohio. I was with some
Ohio State students. They said that they had been reaching out
with you. Well, I was just with them yesterday.
But last month in Bexley, Ohio, which is a community that
is probably a mile-and-a-half--I split the City of Columbus in
half with my dear friend, Joyce Beatty. But on the east side of
Columbus an individual--many of you have seen this video--
approached a Jewish woman's house. And after she answered the
door--thankfully, with a Ring camera--the man spewed anti-
Semitism into her Ring doorbell camera. Then the same
individual proceeded to a nearby house flying the Israeli flag
and did the exact same thing.
Now, this is a neighborhood that my wife and I spend an
awful lot of time in. Our friends live in this neighborhood.
One of our friends, who was--actually, was with my wife on the
night that I met her, is 40 years old. I went to her birthday
party. And for the first time in her life--and she is Jewish--
for the first time in her life her mother called her and said,
``Be careful of your surroundings.'' Now, this is something
that she was--felt very common with, just being a female and
younger, and it was the first time she was ever fearful of her
religion.
Then, just last week, as these students were telling me,
one incident occurred at OSU's Hillel Wexler Jewish Center and
another outside of a bar close to campus. These incidents are
just some of the many occurrences that are happening across the
country. And as I said yesterday, I had the opportunity, the
privilege to meet with the Ohio Jewish community and a group of
students from Ohio State. It was incredible to hear their
story.
I worked with several members of my delegation from Ohio,
and we have just sent a letter to the acting president.
And one of the things that I have seen is a lot of these
universities, while they have made statements now, waited a
little too long to do that. But I will say I applaud what Ohio
State has come out and done. We have 3,000 Jewish students at
Ohio State, and I do applaud their efforts.
One thing that I have found interesting, because we have a
very big Jewish community in the 15th congressional district,
were the calls that we are getting in our congressional
offices. Now, you would think they would be individuals that
were just concerned about what is happening in the world today.
But I have kind of seen the body politic from a different view
for many, many years. These are push calls. These are
individuals that are called, and they are given a script, and
immediately told press one if you want to complain to your
congressman.
Now, I only have a minute-and-a-half, and I apologize I
went on a little too long. But Dr. Schanzer, who do you think
might be paying for these calls that say that my staff is
working for the Israeli Government?
Mr. SCHANZER. That is a good question. I obviously don't
know.
Mr. CAREY. No, I know.
Mr. SCHANZER. But we have a pretty good idea of the network
that is pushing this deeply anti-Semitic, anti-Israel sentiment
on Capitol Hill.
Mr. CAREY. Don't you all find it also increasingly
interesting that these phone calls tend to pick up, I don't
know, when there happens to be a big protest that is right
outside our office? Or maybe a day or two after the protest. So
the coordination of these entities, as you pointed out, is very
clear.
We have got to stop the money, and we have got to push back
on college campuses that don't stand up for our students. And
with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Mr. Panetta is recognized.
Mr. PANETTA. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this
opportunity.
And, ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your patience
today. I will try to be quick, as I am, I think, the last
person to ask you a question and make a statement.
I was part of the first congressional delegation to go into
Israel on the Tuesday after the Saturday attack. We were there
in the Middle East to talk about peace, and unfortunately, we
left talking about war. We were able to go into Israel by
driving across the border from Amman, and we were able to speak
to the leadership and to a few victims on that Tuesday after
that Saturday bloodthirsty attack. Obviously, I felt the trauma
and will always remember the determination that was evoked from
this attack and will continue as we get through this.
But yesterday, Members of Congress had the opportunity to
then view the 45-minute compilation of videos from this attack.
And, as you can imagine, it absolutely was horrific. And I was
telling somebody about this opportunity to do that, and they
asked, ``What were some of the images that stand out with
you?'' Well, what images didn't stand out with me? Hardly any.
But a couple that come to mind were, obviously, the father
who was killed in front of his two sons with that grenade. A
video of a blood trail throughout a house that just seemed to
go on and on and on. And it just makes you think, why were they
dragging this body throughout the house?
But one of the videos that stood out to me was when--there
were certain videos that were taken in Gaza of hostages, of
lifeless bodies that were taken there. And you see the
celebration that went on not by Hamas fighters, but what seemed
to be civilians. The spitting on the hostages, the kicking of
lifeless bodies of IDF soldiers that were brought back into
Gaza.
And it made me think that this is not an issue about land,
it is an issue about a belief. And it reminded me of an
Economist article that I read that talked about--the headline
is how the term genocide is misused in the Israel-Hamas war.
And in it, it says Hamas is a genocidal organization. And that
made me think of Mr. Schanzer.
You were on TV with Jake Tapper when he did an excellent
job laying out these three kinds of principles from Hamas
leadership and showing these videos of where one of the Hamas
leaders said, ``Sacrifice of people is necessary.'' Two, they
said the people in Gaza basically are not our problem, they are
all refugees. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the UN to
protect them, not Hamas. And three, they showed that one of the
leaders of Hamas basically said, yes, there will be a second,
third, and fourth attack, because we have the determination and
the resolve and the capabilities to fight. We are ready to pay
the price. We are a nation of martyrs. And then you went on to
sort of tie it up. I don't know if you remember that, but you
did an excellent job.
And it makes me think, then, about the slogan, ``From the
river to the sea,'' an idealistic vow of liberation that
implies the destruction of the state of Israel. Now, obviously,
there are some who are protesting now who are naive to that
meeting. But as I read in an article, anyone who was paying
attention knows exactly what that means.
Now, I do believe that we must uphold the principles of
free speech. However, we can't use that as a shield to hate
speech that consists of specific threats of violence targeted
against a specific group. We know this.
Now, Mr. Greenblatt, you have noted that anti-Semitic
incidents tend to spike whenever there is a conflict involving
Israel, including the current Israel-Gaza war. Is that because
nowadays what we are seeing is that real wars and cultural wars
are no longer separate struggles?
Mr. GREENBLATT. Yes, thank you for the question, Mr.
Congressman.
I will just say, number one, the reason why you butcher and
brutalize corpses, there is a straight line from that to
tearing down the posters of hostages. It is dehumanizing
people. It is demonizing them. It is rendering them as objects,
as subhuman. It is what the Nazis did 70 years ago. It is what
Hamas would do today. That is why we are so fervent about the
evil of anti-Zionism. Again, it flattens people into
caricatures, and leaves all of us as Jews vulnerable. That is
number one.
Number two, culture wars, violent wars. I have said loudly
for all to hear in the prior administration that using
dehumanizing, violent rhetoric leads to inhumane and violent
actions. And some on the left applauded me for saying that.
Well, it is true here, too. And so when Members of Congress, in
the well of the House, use language like ``From the river to
the sea,'' that is like saying ``Germany is for Germans'' in
1933.
And so, yes, culture wars can lead to real-world violence,
and we shouldn't tolerate it when it is directed at anyone,
regardless of the color of their skin, the nature of their
faith, or any aspect of their identity.
Mr. PANETTA. Thank you. Thanks to all the witnesses.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have to yield back.
Chairman SMITH. Thank you.
I want to thank every one of you all for testifying. This
was an extremely important hearing, and I am very thankful that
we had it today. This is--and I hope that every one of you have
a very happy Thanksgiving. We are looking forward to leaving
Washington after 10 weeks.
Please be advised that members have two weeks to submit
written questions to be answered later in writing. Those
questions and your answers will be made part of the formal
hearing record.
With that, the committee stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:45 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
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