[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
COMMUNISM ON OUR DOORSTEP: THE THREAT
OF CHINA'S MALIGN INFLUENCE IN LATIN
AMERICA
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON WESTERN HEMISPHERE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
SEPTEMBER 28, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-51
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/, http://docs.house.gov,
or http://www.govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
54-780PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey GREGORY MEEKS, New York, Ranking
JOE WILSON, South Carolina Member
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania BRAD SHERMAN, California
DARRELL ISSA, California GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
ANN WAGNER, Missouri WILLIAM KEATING, Massachusetts
BRIAN MAST, Florida DAVID CICILLINE, Rhode Island
KEN BUCK, Colorado AMI BERA, California
TIM BURCHETT, Tennessee JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
MARK E. GREEN, Tennessee DINA TITUS, Nevada
ANDY BARR, Kentucky TED LIEU, California
RONNY JACKSON, Texas SUSAN WILD, Pennsylvania
YOUNG KIM, California DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
MARIA ELVIRA SALAZAR, Florida COLIN ALLRED, Texas
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan ANDY KIM, New Jersey
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, SARA JACOBS, California
American Samoa KATHY MANNING, North Carolina
FRENCH HILL, Arkansas SHEILA CHERFILUS-McCORMICK, Florida
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio GREG STANTON, Arizona
JIM BAIRD, Indiana MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
MICHAEL WALTZ, Florida JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
THOMAS KEAN, JR., New Jersey JONATHAN JACKSON, Illinois
MICHAEL LAWLER, New York SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
CORY MILLS, Florida JIM COSTA, California
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia JASON CROW, Colorado
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas BRAD SCHNEIDER, Illinois
JOHN JAMES, Michigan
KEITH SELF, Texas
Brenda Shields, Staff Director
Sophia Lafargue, Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere
MARIA SALAZAR, Florida, Chair
KEN BUCK, Colorado JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas, Ranking Member
MARK GREEN, Tennessee GREG STANTON, Arizona
BILL HUIZENGA, Michigan JARED MOSKOWITZ, Florida
WARREN DAVIDSON, Ohio SYDNEY KAMLAGER-DOVE, California
KEITH SELF, Texas
Ana Quintana, Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
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Page
WITNESSES
HANNAN, KERRI, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU OF WESTERN
HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE................... 8
GUILARTE, MILEYDI, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR, BUREAU OF
LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, U.S. AGENCY FOR INTERNATIONAL
DEVELOPMENT.................................................... 14
4
APPENDIX
Hearing Notice................................................... 35
Hearing Minutes.................................................. 36
Hearing Attendance............................................... 37
RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTD FOR THE RECORD
Responses to questions submitted for the record.................. 38
COMMUNISM ON OUR DOORSTEP: THE
THREAT OF CHINA'S MALIGN INFLUENCE
IN LATIN AMERICA
Thursday, September 28, 2023
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:06 p.m., in
room 210, House Visitor Center, Hon. Maria Elvira Salazar
(chair of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mrs. Salazar. The Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere
will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to examine
China's growing diplomatic, economic, and security engagement
in Latin America and the Administration's effort to counter the
PRC's influence in our own hemisphere.
I now recognize myself for an opening statement. China, in
my understanding, is the greatest threat to the United States,
the greatest threat that the United States has ever faced. That
is not fantasy. This is a fact.
China is the second economic power behind the United
States. Their GDP is now nearly 75 percent of ours, greater
than Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia. They are the top source of
spying and cyberattacks in the world. They have the worst human
rights record in modern history, and they have brought military
equipment and Marxist ideology to our shores.
Today I am here to announce the great power competition is
back in the Americas. The hammer and the sickle has returned in
full force, and the Chinese Communist Party's first order of
business is to own Latin America, our backyard. Their playbook
is accomplished in three ways, economically, militarily, and
ideologically.
Let's go to the economic front. In the last 20 years, China
has secured a presence in Latin America through what we could
call a Trojan Horse strategy, to become the No. 1 trading
partner in our region. We have seen their tactics, low quality
goods, slave labor, securing critical infrastructure in
exchange for access, and destroying the environment at every
opportunity with no remorse.
Let me repeat it. Our hemisphere has been invaded by China.
And they are now the No. 1 trading partner in the region, No. 1
trading partner in the region. Twenty years ago they traded $12
billion. Twenty years later, last year, they hit $450 billion.
That is a 3,000 percent increase, 3,000 percent increase. Right
now China has free trade agreements with Chile, Costa Rica,
Ecuador, Peru, and another one with Uruguay is on the way.
Specifically in South America they have surpassed the
United States as the top trading partner. What? And 10 years
from now, everything indicates if we continue with this trend,
in Latin America, the trade with China will exceed $700
billion. That's only trade.
Now let's talk about loans. In the last 20 years, China has
lent almost $150 billion to the region and, of course, they are
doing business with our enemies, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua.
Twenty-one Latin American countries have signed onto China's
nefarious Belt and Road Initiative, which is a pretty name for
something that is very simple, to create infrastructure to
dominate world trade.
Today they control key ports in Peru, railroads in
Argentina, airports in Honduras, dams in Ecuador, factories in
Brazil, critical minerals in Bolivia, creating a major security
risk for us in the United States. Needless to say, they are bad
actors with very bad intentions. And their only intention is to
own power.
Now the military presence in our hemisphere. Cuba is
hosting four Chinese spy bases to intercept United States'
communications only 90 miles away from our shores because in
Florida, the State that I represent, has 20 military bases, and
this military base gives the ability to intercept
communications.
And they are also thinking, the Chinese are also thinking,
of creating a military base to house Chinese troops in Cuba.
Chinese troops in Cuba, 90 miles away.
All right. Now let's go to Argentina. Right now they
operate a satellite space station, which has the size of 400
football fields. And the worst part of it all is that the
Argentinian government cannot even go in because the trade
agreement or the agreement between both countries does not
allow the Argentinian government to go in and inspect what's
happening in that military or that spy base.
Venezuela, China sold to Venezuela $650 million in arms in
the last 10 years, including VN1 tanks and state-of-the-art
radar systems.
But the most serious threat, according to my understanding,
is their ideology and information control. Their propaganda
machine is brainwashing Latin American youth. There are 40
Confucius Institutes across Latin America, dedicated to
spreading their repressive ideology, Communism.
They also want to control their phones. Huawei, their
state-owned telecommunications company, operates in 20
countries in Latin America. In Brazil, Huawei controls 50
percent of the phone market, not only phones, but they also
want to control internet services. And why do they want to do
that? Because Communists silence anyone who gets in their way.
I have just proven with a few examples that China is on the
offense while the United States is ignoring our allies in Latin
America. Chairman Xi Jinping has made official visits to 11
Latin American countries, 11 times in the last 10 years.
So if we sit back as the No. 1 force, military force, in
the world, we will watch in the next decade that Mandarin will
replace English as the second language in Latin America.
China's Belt and Road Initiative will overtake the USMCA trade
deal. There will be a monumental cold war style military
buildup in our backyard. And worst of all Communist censorship
will overwhelm Latin America's democracies. So we must engage
now as a country. Communism is on our doorstep once again, and
it is time for us to wake up.
I am just going to say a few words because these hearings
are also watched in Latin America throughout our allies in the
hemisphere. So I'm going to say a few words so our friends will
know what we are thinking.
[Speaking foreign language.]
Now I would like to welcome our guests and the witnesses,
Ms. Kerri Hannan. She is the Deputy Assistant Secretary for the
Bureau of Western Hemisphere Affairs of the Department of
State. Thank you for being here. I should have said hi to you
before I started speaking, but they said that I needed to start
the hearing. So thank you. And welcome, and thank you very much
for being here, answering our questions.
And Mileydi Guilarte, whom I haven't seen in many years.
Good to talk to you again. She is the Deputy Assistant
Administrator for the Bureau for Latin America and the
Caribbean at the United States Agency for International
Development. So now I think I'm going to give the opportunity
for the ranking member, Mr. Castro from Texas, to say a few
words. Thank you.
Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman, and thank you to our
panelists also. Thanks for convening this hearing on the
influence of the People's Republic of China in Latin America.
And thank you, Ms. Hannan and Ms. Guilarte, for joining us
today.
We are by far the biggest economic and security actor in
the Western Hemisphere. But we must recognize that countries
have deepened their economic and political ties with the PRC.
And our foreign policy must acknowledge that.
As we have this important discussion about the PRC's
influence in the region, I hope that our approach is one that
respects the sovereignty and independence of the countries in
Latin America and the Caribbean.
We cannot repeat the mistakes of the 20th Century where in
the name of combating the influence of the Soviet Union, the
U.S. perpetrated and enabled horrific abuses, including
military coup d'etats and death squads.
Make no mistake, I'm not saying that I support China's
deepening engagement in the Western Hemisphere or that I want
it to be successful. The PRC is enabling authoritarianism in
countries like Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua. They are
exporting surveillance technologies to deepen repression in
those nations.
They make false promises and investment that create and
dash the hopes of those looking for prosperity. In Chinese
fishing fleets, hundreds of ships illegally fish in the waters
of Central and South America and hurt the livelihoods of
thousands.
The United States must help our partners in our hemisphere
in the face of the PRC's efforts. And there are a few
principles that I would like to lay out in how we should do so.
First, when we decide to oppose the foreign policy actions
of China, we need to be specific about what we oppose and why
those actions are not in the best interest of the people of the
Western Hemisphere. If we oppose China just because it's China
without being specific, our message will not be heard in Latin
America.
Second, we need to stand by our values when engaging with
the region. During the cold war, the U.S. backed many
authoritarian leaders in our effort to keep the Soviet Union
out of the Western Hemisphere. The brutality of these leaders'
reigns is still felt today jut as the Soviet-backed regime
brutality in Cuba continues to be felt today.
Thousands of people still do not know where their parents
and grandparents disappeared during the Pinochet dictatorship
and so many others. People remember that their country suffered
in part due to the actions of the United States and that still
matters today.
Last, the United States needs to prioritize the region in a
way that we simply haven't in the past. In the last decade,
China has significantly expanded its diplomatic presence in the
hemisphere, including by opening diplomatic relations with
Panama, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and
Honduras.
Meanwhile, House Republicans have posed significant cuts to
our diplomatic programs in the Western Hemisphere. And we have
had a number of nominees that have cleared the Senate Foreign
Relations Committee, but haven't had a vote by the whole Senate
because of holds by Republican members of the U.S. Senate.
That includes, for example, Mr. Roger Nyhus, the Ambassador
to Barbados, Ms. Stephanie Syptak-Ramnath to Peru, Mr. Art
Brown to Ecuador, Mr. Dennis Hankins to Haiti, Mr. Tobin
Bradley to Guatemala, and Mr. Leo Martinez to be the U.S.
Executive Director for the Inter-American Development Bank.
These positions need to be filled immediately. And their
vacancies are harming the United States. And they are harming
the United States when it comes to our competition with China
in the hemisphere.
So we need these nominees confirmed and at their post. And
we need to reject the serious cuts proposed by House
Republicans to our diplomatic and development programs in the
Western Hemisphere.
In this week, we're on the verge of a shutdown in the
Federal Government, and I need to raise this. We are competing
with the hearts and minds of the people of the Western
Hemisphere and speaking to the strength of America's democratic
system over China's authoritarian one. As we speak, our
diplomats in Mexico City, Bogota and Brasilia are sharpening
their talking points to explain to the governments and the
people of Mexico, Columbia and Brazil, the embarrassing reality
of political dysfunction in the United States and in this
building.
If this government shuts down this weekend because of the
demands of the far right and this congress, it would severely
undermine faith in the American democratic system. And I urge
my colleagues who care about China's influence in the Western
Hemisphere to think about that.
I will look forward to hearing from our witnesses on how
we're currently working on those goals and what more Congress
can do to support these efforts. With that, I yield back,
Chairwoman.
Mrs. Salazar. Thank you, Ranking Member. And I now
recognize Ms. Hannan for her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF KERRI HANNAN, DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY, BUREAU
OF WESTERN HEMISPHERE AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Ms. Hannan. Chairwoman Salazar, Ranking Member Castro,
distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the
opportunity to testify on the Department's efforts related to
People's Republic of China engagement in the Western
Hemisphere.
As Secretary Blinken has said, our strategic competition
with the PRC represents one of the defining challenges of the
21st Century. This challenge remains particularly important in
our hemisphere. It requires close coordination with interagency
colleagues, international organizations, and allies and
partners around the world.
Just as important, it requires strong cooperation between
the Administration and Congress, so I welcome continued
engagement on these issues with the committee and the chance to
be with you today.
Our strategic goal remains to promote a more democratic,
inclusive, secure, prosperous, and climate-resilient Western
Hemisphere, aligned with U.S. values and interests. We advance
a positive agenda for the hemisphere, based on values we share
with our partners, respect for human rights and diversity,
democratic governance, inclusive economic growth and
entrepreneurship, and the rule of law.
Managing the strategic competition with the PRC in the
Western Hemisphere requires long-term solutions, which include
strengthening governance and democratic institutions, reducing
corruption, and helping our partners build economies that
attract more investment from U.S. businesses and trusted
partners.
All U.S. embassies in the Western Hemisphere have staff
that focus on tracking and reporting PRC activities, and each
country team seeks to advance a coherent interagency response
to the challenges posed by the PRC.
The Department has four regional China officers based in
the WHA region, each with deep expertise on the PRC, to support
embassies and consulates in addressing this challenge. Our
embassies and consulates have developed country-specific
strategies to counter problematic PRC activity in more than
two-thirds of the countries in the hemisphere.
The United States works with democratic partners from
outside the hemisphere as well. European partners, Japan, the
Republic of Korea, and Taiwan all promote stability and growth
in the region.
With seven of Taiwan's 13 official diplomatic partners
located in WHA, we remain focused on countering the PRC's
campaign to induce these countries to switch recognition and
squeeze out Taiwan from multilateral organizations.
On the economic front, we focus on ensuring competitive and
transparent investment environments that help level the playing
field for U.S. companies.
The United States remains by far the greatest source of
investment and remittances for the region. We offer higher
standard and transparently procured infrastructure investment
alternatives that uphold labor, environmental, and social
safeguards. They also foster inclusive growth in line with
international best practices, including those initiatives like
the Partnership for Global Infrastructure and Investment, Deal
Teams, and the Blue Dot Network.
We continue to respond to structural corruption problems by
encouraging civil society, activists, and journalists to raise
concerns with governments regarding opaque deals.
On security, the proliferation of PRC-linked
telecommunications and surveillance equipment highlights risks
to national security, human rights, and privacy. Many of our
technical delegations and engagements have focused on ICT and
cybersecurity sectors for which an aggressive economic campaign
by PRC-backed companies threatens free-market access.
Our robust foreign military sales program far outpaces the
PRC and demonstrates that regional partners prefer to work with
the United States. The Department also works to counter PRC
propaganda and disinformation campaigns in the region.
The Global Engagement Center works specifically to address
propaganda and disinformation. We build resilience through
targeted support to independent civil society organizations and
journalists. And by funding independent third-party research,
we help shine a spotlight on PRC information manipulation.
Public diplomacy remains key to our efforts to counter the
PRC. The American Spaces Network of 131 brick and mortar
locations in the region are the U.S. government's primary in-
country public-facing platforms to connect foreign audiences to
the United States. Our American Spaces are outnumbered by a 3-
to-1 ratio the Confucius Institutes in the region.
While American Spaces provide open access to accurate
information reflecting American values, including the promotion
of democratic and civic engagement, the rule of law, and the
protection of human rights, the Confucius Institutes expand PRC
cultural influence in the hemisphere and aim to send thousands
of young people to the PRC on exchanges. Meanwhile, our
American Spaces are hosting English Language programs and
exchanges and successfully reinforcing economic, commercial,
cultural, and political engagement with the United States.
These exchange programs ensure the United States is seen as
a steadfast partner to the region by promoting academic ties
and professional development opportunities as well as building
institutional capacity. This includes programs such as our
Young Leaders of the Americas Initiative Fellowship, among
others.
YLAI, launched in 2015, has since hosted over 1,500 young
entrepreneurs, over half of them women, from 37 countries
throughout the Western Hemisphere, collaborating with over 100
U.S. companies and organizations in 85 cities across 34 states.
YLAI promotes U.S. business models, increases trade,
encourages job creation, and builds lasting and sustainable
networks of young entrepreneurs and business and social leaders
across the Western Hemisphere, including the United States.
To conclude, as we work to compete with and counter the
challenges posed by the PRC in the region, we are intently
focused on promoting a more democratic, inclusive, secure,
prosperous, and climate-resilient Western Hemisphere, aligned
with U.S. values and interests, so we can remain the region's
preferred partner. That will remain our steadfast goal.
Thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to
your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Hannan follows:]
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Mrs. Salazar. Thank you, Ms. Hannan.
I now recognize Ms. Guilarte for her opening statement.
STATEMENT OF MILEYDI GUILARTE, DEPUTY ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR,
BUREAU OF LATIN AMERICA AND THE CARIBBEAN, U.S. AGENCY FOR
INTERNATIONAL DEVELOPMENT
Ms. Guilarte. Chairwoman Salazar, Ranking Member Castro,
members of the subcommittee, good afternoon.
[Speaking foreign language.] Thank you for the opportunity
to discuss the way that USAID is responding to the PRC and
Latin America and the Caribbean.
The work to prevent the PRC from gaining hold in the region
is personal to me. My family came to the U.S. from Cuba when I
was 9 years old. Like so many who fled here to escape
Communism, I know firsthand the type of corruption and tyranny
that it fosters. And you have to look no further than many of
the countries fueling the surge in migration, Cuba, Nicaragua,
and Venezuela to see the influence of the roots of Communism
the PRC promotes.
In my current role, I oversee our operations in countries
where concerns about the PRC's growing footprint, predatory
economic colonialism, unsustainable infrastructure, and
security investments are warranted.
Since launching the Belt and Road Initiative in 2013, the
PRC has become the region's largest provider of official
finance, offering more than $215 billion, largely for
infrastructure projects that come with strings attached.
The United States is not forcing countries in the Western
Hemisphere to choose between the United States and the PRC, but
at USAID we offer them an alternative to the PRC's approach.
And we are grateful for the support of Congress, like the
Countering PRC Influence Fund, which allows us to offer our
neighbors that clear alternative with an affirmative agenda
based on our shared values.
Our neighbors in the region recognize the difference. They
see that more than 35 percent of BRI infrastructure projects
have been linked to corruption scandals, labor violations,
environmental hazards, and public protests, like the Coca Codo,
Sinclair Dam in Ecuador, which was riddled with cracks, cost
significant erosion and came with terms that required Ecuador
to hand over up to 90 percent of its oil production.
The governments in the region are becoming increasingly
aware of the down sides of working with the PRC. USAID tracks
perception of the PRC across the hemisphere, and people's trust
in the PRC has fallen by nearly 20 percentage points over the
past 10 years while trust in the United States has risen by
about the same amount since 2019.
So we work to take advantage of those changing dynamics.
Our approach to mitigating the challenges posed by the PRC
focuses on four strategic lines of effort.
First, we help our neighbors strengthen their democratic
institutions and the rule of law to show that democracies can
deliver results. We invest in programs that strengthen checks
and balances and support actors, like investigative
journalists, who shine a light on the actions and motivations
of the PRC and their own governments.
Second, we focus on increasing our partners' economic
resilience so they rebuff external coercion. USAID works with
governments in the private sector to create transparent,
efficient, public procurement systems that reduce corruption
and expose the risk of PRC transactions.
In the Dominican Republic, our work on procurement
standards created the transparency necessary to prevent
backroom deals that PRC was pursuing for the Port of Manzanillo
infrastructure projects. Instead, U.S. and other non-PRC firms
won tenders for construction with better terms and
environmental safeguards.
Third, we focus on creating secure digital ecosystems.
USAID provides a secure alternative to the PRC digital
investments in 5G technology and cybersecurity. In Jamaica, for
example, we invested $3.5 million to strengthen the
government's cybersecurity and provide trusted technologies to
reduce vulnerabilities to cyberattacks that could expose data,
grind operations to a halt, and jeopardize national security.
And finally, we advance the transparent management of
natural resources. By supporting climate finance partnerships,
like the Blue Green Bank in Barbados that supports renewable
energy and water conservation projects, we help our neighbors
attract capital and reduce their reliance on PRC's finance for
infrastructure and energy.
In summary, we will continue to search for new tools and
opportunities alongside our interagency and multilateral
partners to provide what partners are looking for and
outcompete the PRC. We thank Congress and this committee
especially for your support as we work to tackle this challenge
together.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Guilarte follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Salazar. Thank you, Ms. Guilarte for your opening
statement. Now I'm going to recognize myself for 5 minutes of
questioning. And thanks again to both of you. Let me just start
with you, Ms. Hannan, and I just have a few questions about
different countries.
Do you know how many countries President Biden has visited
since he assumed office? He has been to 32 countries. And do
you know how many countries in Latin America, or I should say
in South America, he has visited? Zero, zero. And do you know
how many times Chairman Xi Jinping has visited South America?
Eight times.
So what message do you think that sends to the region? I
understand that You're telling me you have great plans and
wonderful ideas, but perception is reality. So if you do not go
visit your neighbors, what does that say?
Ms. Hannan. Thank you for the question, Chairwoman. I can
say that the Secretary of State has traveled to the region 11
times in the last 2 years.
Mrs. Salazar. Yes, but that's the Secretary of State.
That's not the President.
Ms. Hannan. That's the Secretary of State. It is not the
President. It's the Secretary of State. And he has deeply
engaged in diplomacy in the region. Additionally, President
Biden has met with numerous leaders at various events,
including last week where we were able to conduct important
diplomacy.
Mrs. Salazar. Well, we are going to talk about many Latin
American Presidents the President of the United States has
invited to the White House. But I am going to get to that
later.
Now, have you, as one of the top officials dealing with
Latin America in the State Department, have you advised the
Biden Administration, hey, you have to go to Latin America?
Ms. Hannan. I can offer that any regional bureau would ask
that the President visit their region. Of course, we would love
for the President, for the Secretary, for every----
Mrs. Salazar. What makes you believe that he has not been
able to go--I mean, we are pretty close.
Ms. Hannan. Yes, I cannot speak to the President's travel
schedule. But I can stay that it is still a top priority.
Mrs. Salazar. But have you advised them regularly? Have you
advised the White House to take that step, to visit Latin
America?
Ms. Hannan. We continually advocate for robust diplomatic
engagement with our leadership in Latin America.
Mrs. Salazar. You know that there was a visit to Brazil and
Chile for October, but the trip was canceled. Why? Why was it
canceled? Do you know?
Ms. Hannan. No, I do not know. I am sorry.
Mrs. Salazar. You know why it was canceled? Because there
was no interest. I mean, Chile is only 8 hours away, and Brazil
is nine. But, you know, that does not really send a good
message.
Now let's go to Honduras. President Xiomara Castro is the
wife of Manuel Zelaya. Manuel Zelaya was a friend of Fidel
Castro and told Fidel, and we know this, that capitalism was
the most repugnant system he knew and that he had a profound
aversion to the United States.
President Biden celebrated her election, Xiomara Castro,
who is the actual President of Honduras, sending Vice President
Harris to her inauguration. Something that this White House
denied to President Lasso of Ecuador, President Chaves of Costa
Rica, President Pena of Paraguay. Those three Administrations
are conservative. But Manual Zelaya's wife received the honor
of having the Vice President of the United States at her
inauguration. What type of message does that send?
Ms. Hannan. I think that we engage with every democratic
re-elected government. Our participation in the inauguration of
Honduras demonstrates the incredibly important bilateral
relationship that we have with Honduras addressing a whole
range of issues that they continue to work with us on,
including migration.
Mrs. Salazar. I am just asking you specifically. The White
House sent the Vice President to Honduras, and he did not do
that with Lasso in Ecuador, who is a conservative. It's very
clear to see the difference in treatment to these two
countries.
Ms. Hannan. What I can say is just yesterday I participated
in a meeting with the foreign minister of Ecuador as we signed
a SOFA between the United States and Ecuador. So our robust
diplomacy continues with all countries. Regardless of travel, I
think we demonstrate continued commitment to all of those
countries you named.
Mrs. Salazar. Did you know that the President of Honduras
was going to break relations with Taiwan and recognize
Communist China?
Ms. Hannan. So I was in Honduras in 2022 raising the issue
of the value of a relationship with Taiwan as a democratic
partner to the region. You know, countries make their own
sovereign decisions about the relationships they have as
Honduras did in this case. But we continue to advocate strongly
for Taiwan to maintain international----
Mrs. Salazar. But they decided to part ways with Taiwan and
embrace China. That has been decided already. And apparently we
did not have any type of influence over her decision.
Now do you know that in Honduras, like you said, it is such
an important ally so close to the United States, they have been
implementing the Chavez agenda, meaning Venezuela's Chavez
agenda, ex appropriating businesses, defending Cuba, Nicaragua
and Venezuela of the United Nations and creating something
called the Colectivos, which are a nefarious word because those
are the gangs that are enforcing the Socialist government
agenda. Are you aware of that?
Ms. Hannan. I can offer that we continue to engage with
Honduras at the highest levels about all of the issues that you
are raising.
Mrs. Salazar. And what do they say back to you?
Ms. Hannan. I am not in those conversations personally, but
I----
Mrs. Salazar. Are you making any inroads because it is very
worrisome that Honduras, which is so close, and like you said,
most of the migrants are coming to the United States through
Central America have to go through Honduras. And Honduras is
really not doing anything in order to stop that flow. On the
contrary, they are charging those migrants to make it easier.
And the government of Honduras, according to our sources in
Miami, the district that I represent where we have hundreds of
thousands of Hondurans, now the government of Honduras is using
the desire to come to the United States as a business
proposition. Are you aware of that?
Ms. Hannan. I am aware that Honduras continues to partner
with us closely to address irregular migration. I know that we
remain----
Mrs. Salazar. Partner with us, in which way are they
partnering with us if they are charging $25 for every migrant
that goes from Point A to Point B?
Ms. Hannan. I cannot speak to that particular scheme you
are describing. But I can say that we continue to work closely
with the government of Honduras as well as the rest of the
Central American countries to address migration and to find
solutions to try and reduce the flow of irregular migrants.
I will also offer that we remain the preferred partner of
the Honduran people. And I think----
Mrs. Salazar. Oh, people, of course, the people of
Venezuela and the people of Nicaragua and the people of Cuba.
Of course, the people always side with the Americans. No doubt
about it. But I am talking about the people that make the
decisions, the governments.
Ms. Hannan. And we continue to engage with the government
at the highest levels. We have raised our concerns about the
switch to PRC recognition and the potential for, you know,
buyer's regret. We have seen other countries in the region
switch recognition from Taiwan to the PRC, and we see how that
plays out.
Mrs. Salazar. Now, I am going to--I do not want to fatigue
you. Let me go to Guatemala, a next door neighbor. The Biden
Administration had tagged President Giammattei for being too
conservative. How do I know that? Because the President himself
told me. He is on his way out. Everything indicates that Mr.
Bernard Arevalo is going to be the next President of Guatemala,
and he has expressed interest to increase ties with Communist
China. Have you had any conversations with the President-elect
about engaging with China and leaving Taiwan behind?
Ms. Hannan. I have not personally had conversations with
President-elect Arevalo, but I know that we are in conversation
with the democratically elected President and that Taiwan
remains, you know, promoting Taiwan as a responsible and
democratic partner in the region is one of the topics of
conversation that we have.
Mrs. Salazar. Thank you. I am going to then stop my
question. I am going to give time, and I will pass the time
over to the ranking member.
Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman. Well, I want to say
first, thank you, USAID and the State Department. Thank you for
working with Latin America and hopefully with leaders who are
on the left or the right who are democratically elected. I
think that we should respect the will of the people as long as
the elections were democratic and the leaders are not
brutalizing their people.
Unfortunately, throughout Latin American history, not to
mention world history, but there are times when there are
leaders on the left or the right who have become authoritarian
and have committed brutality.
I see it less as a matter of ideology. And, you know, at
some point when a person, when a President, or prime minister
becomes like that, it no longer becomes about ideology but
rather this brutality and authoritarianism.
And, you know, I do have a question. But I think as we have
these discussions, and obviously the Congress is very focused
on China, we want the United States to prevail to compete
against China in different parts of the world, including Latin
America and win. We want to stop China's repressive actions and
human rights violations. For example, what they are doing to
Uyghur Muslims is an atrocity.
But, you know, I am always--when I have spoken to folks in
Latin America and others, once in a while, sometimes I feel
like that they may be feeling too polite to challenge us on it.
But, you know, here, well, you know, the United States is one
of China's largest trading partners. We, really, I mean, you
have got a Communist country, and we are literally one of
China's largest trading partners, which is enabling part of
their success including in ways the expansion of Belt and Road
Initiative. We also do a lot of trade with Vietnam, for
example, which is a Communist country.
So, but on the issue of China, it is tough to--the reason I
said in my opening remarks that we cannot just say do not work
with China because it is China. Well, they would just put a
mirror back at us and say, well, the United States is feeding
the beast so to speak if that is your perspective. And how do
you confront that diplomatically and at the same time hopefully
prevail in this competition?
And then I wanted to ask with respect to USAID and our aid
footprint there, our initiatives, what do you see--so it is
kind of two questions here, one for both of you. But what do
you see as from their development side, from their aid side,
how is it different from ours and how is it evolving, if it is
evolving? So I open those questions for you all.
Ms. Guilarte. Thank you, Congressman, for your question.
Our motto is very different and that is very clear. We work
through partnerships and values, not transactions. And just to
give you a snapshot. For every dollar of foreign aid, PRC
creates $9 of debt. I think it is very clear that our motto is
very different. And as I mentioned in my opening remarks, I
think we are seeing buyer's remorse already in some of the
countries that have already flipped to China.
So that is, I think, a clear indication that their motto is
not, you know, what they are making it out to be. I think the
fact that we provide the type of assistance that is more
sustainable in the long-term, that is more in line with our
values, goes a long way.
We have doubled down our efforts on supporting civil
society, especially human right defenders, those that are on
the front lines on reporting the different violations and
harmful impacts that are creating serious consequences, right?
You have communities that have been displaced. So there are
endless examples on how the investments with the PRC is
creating negative impacts.
We are also investing on transparency procurement
assistance to reduce corruption. The example that I mentioned
in the Dominican Republic is one. So that is one way where our
money can go a long way.
We also, you know, support improving the cybersecurity
systems that protect against surveillance from foreign
adversaries, like the PRC. Of course, we have done that in
Jamaica. And, again, the work that we have done with
investigative journalists has really been effective to be able
to call citizens' attention to, you know, a set of issues that
are either again environmental and financial dependency perils.
So I think that model has been very clear and that is where
we are making our bed in the long-term.
Mr. Castro. Thank you. Maybe a quick answer?
Ms. Hannan. Sure. Quickly I would offer that, you know, the
Secretary laid out the invest, align, and compete model for how
we are dealing with China. And I think, you know, we focus a
lot on the compete part. But I think the invest and align part
matters. And that, you know, we are not seeking to block China
from the role that they play in the world. So we are trying to
give options so that they are not forced to make opaque
investment choices that might leave countries in debt. And it
is important that we give that option, especially in Latin
America. Thank you.
Mr. Castro. Thanks. I yield back.
Mrs. Salazar. Now I will recognize Mr. Mark Green from the
wonderful State of Tennessee.
Mr. Green. Thank you, Chairwoman Salazar, and I thank
Ranking Member Castro for holding this hearing. I want to thank
you to our witnesses for being here today.
If you thought COVID-19 was the deadliest disease to come
from China, think again. Authoritarianism is a far deadlier
disease, having killed hundreds of millions of people
throughout history. And like COVID-19, it's highly contagious.
I've spoken before the full committee about how the CCP's
censorship regime has made its way to the United States through
Hollywood. And even Biden's Defense Department agrees with me
on that.
Now we are faced with a much bolder and a far more
dangerous case of Authoritarianism affecting Latin America. The
Chinese Communist Party has made it no secret that it is
willing to export a particularly insidious strand of
authoritarianism across the globe. and its preferred method is
the Belt and Road Initiative.
Using this Initiative, the CCP is rapidly and aggressively
spreading its malign influence in Latin America and the
Caribbean. Not only does it allow the CCP to extend its
dictatorial reach and plunge vulnerable countries into virtual
indentured servitude, but it is also squeezing Taiwan out of
the region. Twenty-six of the thirty-three countries in the
region now have diplomatic ties with China and have severed
their relationship with Taiwan.
Many of these same countries have military and security
agreements with China, posing such a high risk that SOUTHCOM
has concluded that the CCP now has not only the intent but also
the capability, and I quote, ``to eschew international norms,
advance its brand of authoritarianism, amass power, influence,
and expense at the existing and emerging democracies in our
hemisphere.`` This situation is no longer a mere future threat
to the United States. It is a reality that we are now living
with.
It is China that is largely responsible for trafficking
fentanyl coming into our country through the southern border.
It is China that is sourcing Mexican cartels with the precursor
chemicals that kill tens of thousands of Americans every year.
It is China that is exploiting the unstable countries in Latin
America and the Caribbean, and it is the same brand of CCP
authoritarianism that is causing the mass of illegal migrations
into the United States in the first place.
Do not talk about the crisis at the southern border and the
crisis that the leading source of death for American adults
aged 18 to 45 without talking about the CCP's involvement. If
we continue to ignore our allies in Latin America and the
Caribbean, we will fully cede control of the region to a
Communist dictator, and more American lives will be at risk.
The first phase of ensuring America's interest in the
region are identical to the first phase of the CCP's
involvement in the region and that is economic engagement.
China used predatory economic engagement to set itself up in
the region, but we can combat it by /genuinely investing in our
partners and seeking mutual benefits.
And that is why I introduced by Nearshoring Bill, which
accomplishes three things. First, it pushes the CCP out of the
region by re-engaging with our partners. Second, it rebuilds
diplomatic ties and establishes regional stability, key
prerequisites for prosperity.
Third, it builds Latin American Caribbean economies,
provides job opportunities, thereby reducing mass migrations
that overwhelm our southern border. And I will just thank
Secretary Blinken for actually his team helping me write that
bill.
China's growing influence in the region is good news for no
one. China has and will continue to destabilize the region,
keep these countries from becoming prosperous and independent
and turn them against the interest of the United States. We
must not allow the CCP to continue its malign activities.
To ignore our partners in the hemisphere is to ignore the
critical realities that threaten our national security. Without
quick and decisive action, the CCP brand of authoritarianism
will metastasize.
My first question is for Ms. Hannan. Have there been any
attempts by the State Department to engage China regarding its
supply of fentanyl precursors into the region and if not, why?
Ms. Hannan. Thank you for the question, Mr. Green. We have
had successful cooperation with the PRC on counternarcotics in
the past, but we do need them to do more to disrupt illicit
drug supply chains. You know, we approach the problem of
fentanyl from several channels, including sanctions which
attack the cartels, like the Sinaloa cartel. We----
Mr. Green. I mean, we're back--I get the cartel piece. But
has the CCP given you one piece of information or one piece of
evidence that show they have decreased the flow from China to
the Latin American area? I mean, the price of fentanyl on the
street now is one-third of what it was when Biden came into
office.
Ms. Hannan. Yes, so Secretary Blinken actually launched the
global coalition at the U.N. General Assembly last week, which
has over 50 countries working globally to address illicit
drugs, including fentanyl.
We have engaged heavily diplomatically with the PRC. We
have worked with them both at the diplomatic level but also to
address things like----
Mr. Green. I get the engagement. But have they done one
thing, given you one piece of information, helped in one way--
--
Ms. Hannan. They have----
Mr. Green [continuing]. That has decreased the flow of
fentanyl?
Ms. Hannan. Well, I mean, I cannot say the direct impact of
the PRC action to decrease fentanyl. But I can say that we are
partnering with them to address standards, customer
recognition, manufacturing, labeling. But they absolutely can
do more. This is an absolute scourge. And the PRC has a role
that needs to be addressed.
Mr. Green. Thank you for saying that last part. That's an
important admission. Thank you.
Mrs. Salazar. We now recognize Congressman Greg Stanton of
the State of Arizona.
Mr. Stanton. Thank you, Chairwoman, very much. The Health
Foreign Affairs Committee has already held several hearings
regarding China's global influence, a topic that is critically
important to my home State in Arizona.
Arizona is a border State, and it is a thoroughfare for
illicit fentanyl traffic from Mexico, which is often
manufactured using precursor chemicals shipped from China. So
my question is--we will play a little upon Chairman Green's as
well. But before we get to that, I do want to talk a little bit
about budgets.
As we are aware of how important it is that the United
States continue investing in our relationship with Latin
American nations so that we can work with our neighbors on
critical issues like drug trafficking and migration. We can
also check the PRC's presence in our own backyard. That is a
bipartisan goal. We have heard that today. We just need budgets
that match the policy goal, budgets that match the rhetoric.
Fortunately, in the majority's proposed budget earlier this
year, it would cut the State and foreign operations budget a
full 24 percent from what the President had asked for all the
way back to 2009 levels. And, of course, the world is very
different than it was 15 years ago.
Arizona is seeing an increase in numbers of migrants
crossing our southwest border. But unfortunately, the majority
want to cut funding, for example, immigration processing
centers in Colombia, Guatemala, Costa Rica, that screen
migrants before they get to our borders.
The proposed continuing resolution that we will likely be
voting on hopefully tomorrow, maybe Saturday. We do not know
what day the CR is going to come before this Congress, would
cut funding for 800 Border Patrol agents. And, of course, a
shutdown would be horrific, forcing Border Patrol agents to
work without pay. All this would mean less support for border
communities and would hamstring Federal law enforcement's
abilities to prevent drugs like fentanyl from being trafficked
across our borders.
Fentanyl is behind an exponential spike in overdose deaths
in Arizona. We know China tragically plays a deadly role in
this crisis as an estimated 97 percent of fentanyl here in the
U.S. is manufactured using precursor chemicals exported from
China.
You mentioned we are working directly with the PRC and
through other multilateral organizations to put pressure on
China to do more to crack down on the trade of precursor
chemicals. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be working at
this point.
So I want to followup with what Chairman Green asked. How
is the Biden Administration working with not only China but the
Mexican government to clamp down on the flow of precursor
chemicals from China to drug cartels currently?
Ms. Hannan. Thank you for your question, sir. You know, we
work with Mexico to target TCOs. As I mentioned, the Sinaloa
cartel is one that we sanctioned. The Treasury, we used the
Fentanyl Sanction Act. We sanctioned over 90 entities or
individuals, many of which come from Mexico and over 20 from
the PRC.
We are cooperating with Mexico in the bicentennial
framework for security, public health, and safe communities.
And in fact, next week we have the high level security dialog
where fentanyl will be one of the topics we discuss.
You know, we are using every sanction tool we have. We are
also working with the PRC. We also do diplomatic engagement.
Our Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement puts
combating illicit fentanyl and the precursor chemicals at the
top of their list of things of things to address.
Mr. Stanton. Switching gears, I am very lucky. In my
community, the Taiwanese Semiconductor Manufacturing Company is
building a $40 billion manufacturing facility in Phoenix. We
are supplying chips through the next generation of Apple
iPhones. So the safety of the people of Taiwan, protecting the
democracy in Taiwan, protecting trade with Taiwan is critically
important to the local economy in Phoenix. Thousands and
thousands of jobs are being created because of that foreign
direct investment by TSMC. And therefore, recognition of Taiwan
is very important around the globe.
Deputy Assistant Secretary Hannan, a number of South and
Central American countries have switched diplomatic recognition
from Taiwan to PRC. Honduras just switched earlier this year.
You talked about it a little bit, maybe a little bit more now,
if you would. How can the U.S. preempt more countries from
switching their diplomatic ties to the PRC, especially as we
think about nearshoring parts of our semi-conductor supply
chain?
Ms. Hannan. Certainly. Thank you for the question. We have
seven countries in the Latin America and the Caribbean who
still recognize Taiwan. In all of our public and private
discussions in the region, we continue to emphasize that
Taiwan's relationships, both with countries that recognize them
and that do not are reinforcing the hemisphere's democratic
values and supporting sustainable development.
We continue to support the United States' support of
Taiwan's robust and meaningful participation, both throughout
the U.N. system and the international community where
appropriate. And we strongly are encouraging all countries to
expand their engagement with Taiwan.
Mr. Stanton. Thank you, Madam Chair, and I yield back.
Mrs. Salazar. Thank you. And now I am going to recognize
Congressman Keith Self of Texas.
Mr. Self. Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to comment on my
colleague across the aisle's comments about the border. The
border is lawless, and it informs a lot of my opinions about
South America, Latin America as a whole.
This Administration makes no effort on the border. He
considers this Congress irrelevant. He considers the law
irrelevant, and the border shows it.
I may end with some questions, but I hear your talking
points and responses so I may have some questions at the end.
My questions would be, but I do not want to spend a lot of time
on them, do you actually consider China as the greatest threat
to the U.S.? Because I think there is ambivalent responses to
that question in the Biden Administration.
But I do want to--before I do that, soft power must still
be power. I wish we had a hard power balanced approach in this
hearing, but we do not. So what sanctions have you put on
nations that have removed recognition from Taiwan. What actual
sanctions have you put in the soft power realm on the nations
that have removed recognition from Taiwan?
Ms. Hannan. Thank you, sir. We do not put sanctions on
countries.
Mr. Self. I suspected that would be the answer.
Ms. Hannan. Those are sovereign decisions of nations to
determine who they have to----
Mr. Self. It is also in our best interest to make sure that
they do not recognize Taiwan. The President has said--the way I
understand the official position of the United States is that
we will provide Taiwan the weapons to defend themselves.
However, this President has said four times recently that we
will defend Taiwan. So I do not see that in the official policy
of the United States so I'm not sure what to believe about the
Administration's policy.
Do you actually want to counter China in Latin America or
do you simply want to have this soft competition? That would be
a question--I am not sure I see any efforts to actually counter
China. We talk about it, but I am not sure the efforts are
there.
Do you have any examples of how you have actually
countered, responded to China's involvement in Latin America as
a whole, and what are the red lines that you have for their
involvement in dual use facilities? Do you have any red lines?
Ms. Guilarte. Thank you, Congressman, for your questions. I
will give our perspective from a development perspective. Of
the seven countries that remain recognizing Taiwan and Latin
America, we have seen and actually created valuable
partnerships with Taiwan to be able to demonstrate why working
with Taiwan and the countries where we are is worth the
investment.
I can give you examples from Uruguay, Guatemala, and even
in the Caribbean, where investments in education, agriculture,
food security, and women's economic empowerment has gone a long
way. These are areas where the PRC has not----
Mr. Self. Has it deterred any country from de-recognizing
Taiwan?
Ms. Guilarte. Not de-recognizing.
Mr. Self. Can you give me an example?
Ms. Guilarte. Not de-recognizing, we haven't, no.
Mr. Self. Because there are nations that still recognize
Taiwan. Has any of this--do you know of an example where a
country have used your efforts, have persuaded them not to de-
recognize Taiwan?
Ms. Guilarte. I can give you one concrete example. I
recently traveled as part of my job, because I think it is
important to be in Washington, but it is just as equally
important to visit the region and our partners.
I was just in Belize, a country where USAID does not have a
presence, we are actually considering in places where USAID
does not have a presence increasing our footprint or
considering being there exactly for those same reasons.
Mr. Self. Well----
Ms. Guilarte. The way that they have----
Mr. Self. Well, that's----
Ms. Guilarte. I just give you an example, they have not
recognized PRC. They are a strong partner with Taiwan-Belize. I
had meeting with our counterparts, Taiwanese counterparts while
I was there. And there is definitely an eye-to-eye, you now,
same level approach toward development----
Mr. Self. OK.
Ms. Guilarte [continuing]. With the Belizean government,
where they are not interested in PRC.
Mr. Self. Thank you. Thank you. You used the term buyer's
remorse earlier. And I do not see that in the move away from
Taiwan in Latin America because they understand how important
this is. I hope they understand how important this is to the
United States.
I think the move away from Taiwan is a major indicator of
the failure of our soft power in Latin America as a whole.
Madam Chair, I yield back.
Mrs. Salazar. Thank you, Congressman. And now we are going
to begin a second round of questions. And I want to recognize
myself for 5 minutes. And I want to go to two different
countries and continue with you, Ms. Hannan.
Let's go to Argentina. You know that next month there are
going to be elections. And everything indicates, we do not
know, we cannot control that process, but everything indicates
that Javier Milei will be elected the next President of
Argentina.
Milei is the opposite of Xiomara Castro in Honduras. And he
has said repeatedly on many television interviews that he does
not--I'm going to quote him--that he does not deal with
Communists. That the Chinese government kills people who want
to be free. That he is going to break ties with Cuba,
Venezuela, Nicaragua, and China, which I think are policies
that are actually pretty good for the United States' interest
in the region.
So my question to you is if Milei were to win the
Presidency in Argentina, would you recommend to the White House
to send Vice President Harris to attend his inauguration if he
were to win the presidency?
I understand that you do not control the President's
schedule. I understand that you do not. But you are highly
influential. The State Department sends a clear message to the
White House as to what should be the right policies that we
should pursue.
Ms. Hannan. I cannot predict who wins an election. I can
say that we always engage with democratic elected governments
for any country. So if Milei were to----
Mrs. Salazar. I am saying in case that were to be true. And
Milei, who has stated those statements repeatedly shared with
the press what his presidency will look like, what will the
Biden Administration do?
Ms. Hannan. What I can offer is that our relationship with
Argentina is incredibly important. I cannot say who would
attend the particular swearing in of a President. I do not
think that necessarily predicts totally the importance of a
relationship that we have. We have robust diplomatic engagement
in a variety of scenarios.
I will say that we will continue to work with Argentina
whoever is elected.
Mrs. Salazar. You understand what I am trying to say. The
Biden Administration has not shown the same respect toward
those governments who are democratically elected. And they
tended to be on the conservative side. They have not shown the
same type of respect to those on the conservative as on the
left. And I think that is very worrisome.
So I am explaining--I am asking you in this case, which the
Biden Administration has a new opportunity to demonstrate
equality, equity, and diversity, could you commit to the fact
that Milei, if he were to be President, deserves the same type
of respect as Xiomara Castro?
Ms. Hannan. I can commit to the idea that every
democratically elected leader in Latin America deserves a
robust diplomatic engagement with our government, with our
current Administration.
Mrs. Salazar. But they are not having it because that is
not the case with the Dominican Republic. It was not the case
Guatemala. So all we are trying to find is the same respect for
one side of the ideology as for the other. And you can
definitely influence those decisions.
Now let's go to Cuba. Cuba is currently hosting at least
four Chinese spy bases, four. And now they are thinking about
opening up a new base to harbor Chinese troops, Chinese troops,
90 miles away from us. That is part of Project 141, which is a
secretive project to have military bases all over the world.
My question is, have you shared with the Cubans that it is
unacceptable to the United States to have Chinese troops 90
miles away? Yes or no?
Ms. Hannan. So our strategy begins with diplomacy. And we
are engaging governments about hosting PRC bases at high
levels, exchanging information with them. I would refer you to
the classified briefing that you had or to ODNI for additional
information. But I will offer that we have raised our concerns
with the PRC at the highest levels, including when Secretary
Blinken was in Beijing last about Cuba.
Mrs. Salazar. All right. Now that you said about the
classified hearing that we attended, since we cannot share that
information with the public, could you commit to publish an
unclassified report of what the United States knows about the
Chinese presence in Cuba so we can share it with my
constituency, which is the Cuban exile community in the United
States?
Ms. Hannan. I can take that back to my team to inquire.
Thank you.
Mrs. Salazar. To inquire if you can publish an unclassified
report?
Ms. Hannan. I can take that back to my team. I cannot speak
to whether or not we can, but I can take it back. Absolutely.
Mrs. Salazar. All right. Thank you. I yield back. I now
recognize the ranking member, Mr. Castro.
Mr. Castro. Thank you, Chairwoman. You know, we are talking
about China and competition with China. One thing that I did
not mention, had not addressed, was the success and the
cooperation of our business community in Latin America. And,
you know, Representative Self asked the question, well, what
are we doing to counter China?
Well, one of the things that we have been working on is
pressing them not to purchase and accept and integrate
technology like Huawei into their infrastructure systems. That
is an important counter that I know the United States is
working on day in and day out. But I also want to make sure,
and I know that we do it, but I guess partially in answer to
his question is helping our business to succeed.
I do think, like I said, I think that there are ways in the
world where China cheats on human rights, for example, and
should be held accountable. Debt traps is another one. But
there are other ways where they are competing against the
United States and Europe around the world. And I believe that
we need to compete with them, and I believe that we can beat
them, that our businesses can beat them. That our systems, our
aid system, can beat them. So I think that's an important part.
But I want to ask the question, I have about three and a
half minutes left, on a separate topic, and that is the rise of
illegal, unreported, and unregulated fishing in Latin America
and the Caribbean. And it is a major concern that affects
livelihoods in communities and labor rights and the environment
and regional security. And combating IUU fishing has been a
priority for numerous Latin American countries and is a key
policy framework of the Biden Administration.
Much IUU fishing is perpetrated by large scale operations
of Chinese fishing fleets, sometimes supported by ports
financed by the PRC. I am currently working on legislation to
address this issue.
Beyond supporting Naval and military capacities, which I
know falls under the DOD, Ms. Hannan, how is the United States
addressing the challenges and impact of IUU fishing in
coordination with our allies in the region?
Ms. Hannan. Thank you so much for the question. I think IUU
fishing is an incredibly important issue because it also
resonates with Latin America because they see it as their
resource. And so we do a lot of soft diplomacy. I do not know
if I agree with the term soft, but we reach out. We draw
attention to actions by the Chinese fleets.
I know SOUTHCOM has helped to draw attention to what they
are doing. I personally participated in a working group in Peru
that brought together NGO's and the Peruvian Coast Guard and
the American Embassy to talk about ways that we can address IUU
fishing where they launched a program that will focus on the
impact that the fisheries are having, looking at the zero
tolerance policy that the PRC has in holding them accountable
to the same standards.
We have a working group. We have the SAFE Act that we can
use. We are deeply supportive of Sea Mar. That is one of the
most important areas in the world in terms of being a fishery
bed. You know, we are looking at deep sea squid fisheries. We
take the issue very seriously. We work on it with governments,
but also with NGO's and with aid programs.
Mr. Castro. Well, thank you for that. Thank you so much for
your testimony today, both of you. I appreciate it. I yield
back, Chair.
Mrs. Salazar. All right. We are going to begin a third
round of questions, and I recognize myself for 5 minutes. And
after that, I'm not sure if the ranking member would like to
continue, but let's just extract and just get more information
out of you.
And this question is for Mileydi Guilarte. Thank you. I am
sorry that I could not talk to you before. But definitely we
very much appreciate the fact that you are coming and as a
Cuban American you recognize the threat of that Communist
ideology penetrating our hemisphere.
This has nothing to do with political parties. This has to
do with being an American and caring about the American values
being carried into our back yard, into the hemisphere that we
belong to. So thank you, Mileydi, for being here once again.
So I am not sure if you know that after Daniel Ortega came
back from China, he started raffling off all expenses paid
trips to China for whatever Nicaraguan wanted to adopt that all
expenses paid trip.
And according to the Nicaraguan press, no one participated.
I mean, it is really weird that if they are paying for your
room and board and for your plane tickets to go to a country
that no one cares about it, or no one has raised their hand. So
that is very interesting. And everyone like free trips. But
according to the Nicaraguan press, I repeat, no one
participated in this offering from the Ortega regime.
You are, through USAID, in charge--you are in charge
indirectly of the public diplomacy in favor of the United
States. So we understand that Latin Americans like the United
states a lot more than they like China. And this is a very good
example. How do you think that--what else can we do in this
Congress to help people like you take the message that we are
still the best game in town?
Ms. Guilarte. Thank you, Congresswoman, for your question.
You know, I think Nicaragua, as you know the region really
well, it is really hurtful to see how things continue to
deteriorate. I mean, you saw in GAIA, you saw the VUCA
organizations, people are fleeing.
Our investments are modest. USAID, most--all of our
partners are not operating in Nicaragua no longer. So our
investments have been to double down on ensuring that when
there is an opening that those that remain outside and continue
to fight for a free Nicaragua 1 day are ready to do so. And I
think that's really where our funding should continue to be
focused on.
There is a lot of work that is being done to continue
putting a spotlight on the human rights violations that are
happening in Nicaragua. We have from USAID work very closely
with interagency colleagues to ensure that our partners in the
multilateral institutions keep a close eye on not approving any
loans on Nicaragua.
So it's a multi-prong approach. I think development does
play a role. And we flex our development muscle in supporting
those that are fighting the good fight outside. But it also
requires other institutions to play a role. I mean, there are
regional financing institutions that keep giving them a
lifeline, right?
Mrs. Salazar. So what do your people--are telling you--
people that are based in Nicaragua still, what are they telling
you?
Ms. Guilarte. I think it is very obvious that the
conditions--I mean, there is no closing of civil space, there
is none, right? But our work is not focused inside of
Nicaragua.
Mrs. Salazar. And that is very sad the fact that the soft
diplomacy is not in place right now in Nicaragua. What about
Venezuela? Do we have any activity in Venezuela?
Ms. Guilarte. We have----
Mrs. Salazar. USAID, do you have any programs? What type of
participation are we having in Venezuela at this hour with the
Maduro Regime?
Ms. Guilarte. In Venezuela, and forgive me because I am not
as knowledgeable in Venezuela. I cover all of Mexico and
Central America. But in terms of our focus, it is on the
upcoming election. And I think that is where we are ensuring
that there is fair representation from opponents.
Mrs. Salazar. And now that you say that, I can ask Ms.
Hannan, and she is saying that the focus is on the coming
election. There is a candidate by the name of Maria Corina
Machado that everything indicates that may be--if the Maduro
regime accepts free and fair elections, that she may be the
next President, in which way we are helping, let's say, the
diplomatic forces, I mean, the democratic forces in Venezuela
to help have--to give the opportunity to the Venezuelan to
speak their conscience and not be suppressed by the Maduro
regime?
Ms. Hannan. I think you are asking--I mean, we continue, I
mean, it is a top priority to support the free and fair
election in Venezuela.
Mrs. Salazar. But in particular the State Department, not
so much USAID, but the Statement Department, what can we be
doing right now in order to help those democratic forces in
Venezuela?
Ms. Hannan. Inside of Venezuela?
Mrs. Salazar. Inside Venezuela?
Ms. Hannan. We continue to respect the will of the
Venezuelan people in their efforts to do free and fair
elections. We continue to have some aid programs that provide
food security and give opportunity for them to continue to
live. But we are waiting for the Maduro regime to--I do not
want to say waiting. You know, we are supporting the free and
fair election process that is being administered between the
opposition and the Maduro regime. And we will continue to
work----
Mrs. Salazar. But you know that he is not willing to help
any type of program that involves free and fair elections----
Ms. Hannan. Yes, yes, it is the regime.
Mrs. Salazar [continuing]. Or help the opposition have any
air time or any type of support. So what can we do, the State
Department, soft diplomacy, what are the activities right now
happening?
Ms. Hannan. We continue drawing attention to the plight of
the Venezuelan people. We also support the Venezuelans that are
outside of Venezuela that have had to leave because of the
economic situation.
Mrs. Salazar. But in particular with the Maduro regime, do
we have any type of contact?
Ms. Hannan. I would like to come back to you on that
question. I do not have the answer right here. Sorry.
Mrs. Salazar. Please do because the Biden Administration
has been good to the Maduro regime, and we are talking about
oil purchases. So if we are good to them economically speaking,
maybe they would be wanting to hear on the diplomatic side. So
it would be very interesting to know what type of contact when
it comes to helping those opposition forces are we having from
the State Department. Thank you. Please get back to us. I yield
back.
Mr. Castro. Thank you. Just one last question from me. I
know some of the challenges USAID and State face in posing
ourselves as an alternative to the PRC and our funding
limitations and restricted presence on the ground.
So I wanted to ask you all, can each of you speak to the
challenges and barriers you are currently facing in developing
sustainable and mutually beneficial ties with regional
governments and then what effect would the proposed cuts by the
Republican majority have on these operations if they were to go
through?
Ms. Guilarte. Thank you, Congressman. Any type of
government shutdown or lapse in funding would cause a
disruption to our presence in the region. I think basically it
would come down to ceding space to China because they do not
have to--they do not have the same rules as we do.
I think one important piece where USAID has been playing a
critical role given the migration and the influx of migrants
that are crossing and fleeing is the integration work that we
have throughout the region.
So any type of budget cuts would pose significant harm in
the settlement of some of these returnees, and I think would
result in increased flows to our border. So that's definitely
one direct impact that the budget cuts would have.
And I think something else would be--the human rights
budget would be detrimental to protecting the courageous human
rights defenders that are doing that work. So any pause would
be harmful.
So those are some of the things that I could think of right
away that would be impacted by any budget cuts.
Ms. Hannan. I mean, I think she laid it out well. I would
just add that, you know, we have so many programs and projects
that support the values that we share with the hemisphere. And
we are trying to advance a positive agenda. And, you know,
these programs take time. And they are investments, and we want
to see them continue.
Mr. Castro. Thank you. I yield back.
Mrs. Salazar. So pursuant to committee rules, all members
may have 5 days to submit statement questions and other
materials for the record. Without objection, the committee
stands adjourned. And once again, thank you for your presence.
[Whereupon, at 3:20 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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