[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                    THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON
                              SOCIAL SERVICES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                  SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY,
                       SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             SECOND SESSION

                               __________


                       THURSDAY, JANUARY 11, 2024

                               __________


                           Serial No. 118-59

                               __________


         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary






                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]





               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov

                               ______
                                 

                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

54-615                    WASHINGTON : 2024









                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
KEN BUCK, Colorado                       Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky                  Georgia
CHIP ROY, Texas                      ADAM SCHIFF, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             ERIC SWALWELL, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          TED LIEU, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
KELLY ARMSTRONG, North Dakota        JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California              CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina

                                 ------                                

            SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
                            AND ENFORCEMENT

                   TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair

KEN BUCK, Colorado                   PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington, 
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                      Ranking Member
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin               ZOE LOFGREN, California
CHIP ROY, Texas                      J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 ERIC SWALWELL, California
WESLEY HUNT, Texas                   Vacancy

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
         AARON HILLER, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff








                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                       Thursday, January 11, 2024

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State 
  of California..................................................     1
The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee 
  on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the 
  State of Washington............................................     3
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary from the State of New York.......................     5

                               WITNESSES

Chief Manuel Mello, III, Eagle Pass Fire Department
  Oral Testimony.................................................     8
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    11
Gregory Chen, Senior Director, Government Relations, American 
  Immigration Lawyers Association
  Oral Testimony.................................................    15
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    17
Steven A. Camarota, Director of Research, Center of Immigration 
  Studies
  Oral Testimony.................................................    25
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    27
Danyela Souza Egorov, Vice President, Community Education 
  Council, New York City School District 2, Manhattan; Project 
  Director, A Parent Powered, New York
  Oral Testimony.................................................    41
  Prepared Testimony.............................................    43

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed 
  below..........................................................    75

An article entitled, ``How Texas officials stymied nonprofits' 
  efforts to help migrants they bused to northern cities,'' Jan. 
  9, 2024, CBS News, submitted by the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, 
  Ranking Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State 
  of New York, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, a Member of 
  the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of California, for the record
  An article entitled, ``Shut out of DACA, and traditional jobs, 
      young immigrants start businesses to get ahead,'' Sept. 15, 
      2022, Los Angeles Times
  An article entitled, ``What rising immigration really means for 
      California's economy,'' Jan. 9, 2024, Los Angeles Times
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking 
  Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, 
  and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
  A report entitled, ``The Economic Benefits of Immigration,'' 
      Fall 2023, Berkeley Review of Latin American Studies
  A report entitled, ``The Economic Contributions of Unauthorized 
      Workers: An Industry Analysis,'' Nov. 2016, National Bureau 
      of Economic Research
  A report entitled, ``Undocumented Immigrants' State & Local Tax 
      Contributions,'' March 2017, Institute on Taxation & 
      Economic Policy
  A report entitled, ``Examining the Economic Contributions of 
      Undocumented Immigrants by Country of Origin,'' Mar. 8, 
      2021, New American Economy Research Fund
  A report entitled, ``Keeping Medicare Solvent: How Immigrants 
      Subsidize Medicare's Truth Fund for All U.S. Seniors,'' 
      Apr. 2021, New American Economy Research Fund
  A report entitled, ``Immigrants Contribute More in Private 
      Insurance Premiums than they Receive in Benefits,'' Apr. 
      2021, New American Economy
  A report entitled, ``Benefits of Immigration Outweigh the 
      Costs,'' Spring 2016, George W. Bush Institute
  A report entitled, ``Immigrants and Public Benefits: What Does 
      the Research Say?'' Nov. 2018, Bipartisan Policy Center
  A report entitled, ``Immigration Facts: The Positive Economic 
      Impact of Immigration,'' Jul. 21, 2020, FWD.us
  A report entitled, ``The Effects of Immigration on the United 
      States' Economy,'' Jun. 27, 2016, Penn Wharton University 
      of Pennsylvania, Budget Model
  A report entitled, ``Immigrants Contribute Greatly to U.S. 
      Economy, Despite Administration's, `Public Charge' Rule 
      Rationale,'' Aug. 15, 2019, Center on Budget and Policy 
      Priorities
An article entitled, ``GOP Governors Vow to Close Doors to Syrian 
  Refugees,'' Nov. 16, 2015, The New York Times, submitted by the 
  Honorable Deborah Ross, a Member of the Subcommittee on 
  Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State 
  of North Carolina, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member 
  of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
  A fact sheet entitled, ``FACT SHEET: White House Calls on 
      Congress to Advance Critical National Security 
      Priorities,'' Oct. 20, 2023, The White House
  A statement from the Asian Pacific Institute on Gender-Based 
      Violence (API-GBV)
  A statement from the Center for Law and Social Policy (CLASP)
  A statement from the Church World Service (CWS)
  A statement from the National Immigration Law Center (NILC)
  A statement from United U.S.
    Not provided at time the of publication
  A statement from Juliana Macedo do Nascimento, Deputy Director 
      of Federal Advocacy, United We Dream
  A statement from the Women's Refugee Commission
  A statement from the National Immigration Law Center (NILC)
  A statement from the Pastor Ortega, National Association of 
      Christian Churches
    Not provided at time the of publication

                                APPENDIX

Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member 
  of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
  Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
  A statement from Cris Ramon, Senior Policy Advisor, Immigration 
      Policy Project, and Laura Vazquez, Director, Immigrant 
      Integration, UnidosUS
  A statement from the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of 
      the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
      Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record








 
                   THE IMPACT OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ON
                             SOCIAL SERVICES


                              ----------                              


                       Thursday, January 11, 2024

                        House of Representatives

            Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,

                            and Enforcement

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in 
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Tom McClintock 
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives McClintock, Jordan, Biggs, 
Tiffany, Roy, Spartz, Nehls, Moore, Hunt, Jayapal, Nadler, 
Correa, Escobar, Jackson Lee, and Ross.
    Mr. McClintock. The Subcommittee will come to order. 
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess 
at any time.
    We welcome everyone to today's hearing on the impact of 
illegal immigration on social services. We'll begin with 
opening statements, starting with myself.
    The very day he took office, Joe Biden issued Executive 
Orders that opened our borders to the world and began the 
largest illegal mass migration in recorded history. Since that 
day, his Administration has deliberately released into the 
country over 3.3 million illegal aliens, a population the size 
of the State of Iowa.
    While the Border Patrol was overwhelmed changing diapers 
and taking names, an additional 1.7 million known gotaways, 
have also flooded in. An additional illegal population the size 
of West Virginia.
    Ever since that day, I've asked the Democrats a series of 
very simple questions. How does it improve access to healthcare 
for Americans when we pack our emergency rooms and maternity 
wards with illegals demanding free healthcare?
    How does it strengthen our social safety net to allow in 
five million impoverished people requiring care? How does it 
make our communities safer by making it all but impossible to 
deport criminal illegal aliens?
    How does it help working families by flooding the labor 
market with cheap illegal labor? How does it improve our 
schools by packing classrooms with non-English speaking 
students?
    I am still waiting for an answer to these questions from 
the Democrats. The reality is starting to become obvious to the 
American people.
    Coincidentally, after we'd announced this hearing on the 
impact of this crisis on social services, Mayor Eric Adams 
kicked four thousand New York children out of their high school 
to house two thousand illegal migrants. He has yet to explain 
why he didn't offer them a plane ticket home instead.
    Indeed, one estimate from New York City is that the cost of 
simply educating, let alone housing, and feeding these recent 
arrivals, will cost the city schools one billion dollars next 
year.
    That is effectively a one billion dollar cut in their 
school budgets. A one billion dollar cut to the funds available 
to educate legal residents.
    We have already heard of American Veterans kicked out of 
nursing homes to make way for illegal aliens. Law enforcement 
is overwhelmed by dealing with the accompanying crimes.
    American mothers are forced to drive three hours to deliver 
their babies, because every maternity bed in their local 
hospital is taken up by a law breaker who has no legal right to 
be here. We'll hear of more outrages today.
    Under the Biden Administration, schools are becoming 
illegal alien shelters, airports are becoming illegal alien 
shelters, parks are becoming illegal alien shelters, police 
stations are becoming illegal alien shelters, nursing homes are 
becoming illegal alien shelters, hotels are becoming illegal 
alien shelters, and homeless shelters are becoming illegal 
alien shelters.
    All of this is paid for by struggling American families who 
work hard, pay their taxes, and obey our laws. When they 
question this, they're called racist xenophobes by my 
Democratic colleagues.
    Now, this crisis is not because of incompetence. This is 
the deliberate policy of this Administration. It's not going to 
be solved by new laws that the Senate won't pass, and the 
President won't sign or enforce.
    It won't be solved by spending more money to encourage and 
support still more illegal aliens flooding our country. It 
won't be solved by swapping one leftist official for another.
    The harsh truth is that this catastrophe was set in motion 
when the American people elected this Administration. It's 
going to continue until the American people replace it with one 
that will defend our citizens, secure our borders, and restore 
the rule of law.
    This unprecedented illegal migration is exactly what the 
Democrats promised to do. It's exactly what they have done. 
It's exactly what they have defended for the last three years 
in this Congress. If you voted for them. This is exactly what 
you voted for. If that surprises you, you weren't paying any 
attention.
    The good news is the American people are starting to pay 
attention as communities confront the dangers and deprivations 
that this Administration and its supporters in Congress have 
unleashed on them. We will quantify some of that in today's 
testimony and then pray it's not too late to save our country.
    I am now pleased to recognize the Ranking Member for an 
opening statement.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. As we hurdle toward a 
government shutdown, with House Republicans unable to fulfill 
their most basic responsibility of agreeing to a funding plan 
that keeps the government going, last night we shut down the 
floor because they couldn't even pass their own rules.
    Yet, here we are. Having another hearing to discuss 
migrants who have crossed the border. I am sure that once 
again, we will hear the same false talking points blaming 
everything on Secretary Mayorkas and President Biden.
    The fact is that this country needs fundamental reforms, 
positive reforms to an outdated immigration system that 
desperately needs to be modernized, that would allow for 
multiple legal pathways for immigrants who are already 
contributing to our country and those who seek to come to this 
country to contribute.
    There is so much fearmongering going on that it is 
difficult to know exactly where to start. Let me say this, 
first, the Biden Administration is enforcing immigration laws.
    In fact, the Administration has been so heavy handed in 
recent months that I have serious concerns about how they are 
conducting border enforcement. This is especially true when it 
comes to the Administration's regulations that limit access to 
asylum and the use of expedited processing procedures for 
families.
    Today there are nearly 38 thousand people in Immigration 
and Customs Enforcement Detention. By the way, this is what the 
Trump Administration averaged in Fiscal Year 2018.
    If you listen to my colleagues on the other side, you would 
think that there are zero people in detention. The Biden 
Administration has also significantly increased removals in a 
way that, I worry, violates migrants' due process rights and 
their ability to lawfully seek asylum.
    Since the end of Title 42 last year, the Biden 
Administration has removed or returned to Mexico over 400 
thousand individuals, including over 65 thousand individual 
members of family units, including children.
    This total is nearly equivalent to the number of people 
removed in all Fiscal Year 2019 under Donald Trump. So, the 
idea that the Administration is not enforcing the law is 
ridiculous.
    Second, I think this is a really important point, this 
hearing is supposed to distract the American people from the 
fact that my Republican colleagues have absolutely no 
accomplishments to run on.
    Once again, they are trying to scapegoat immigrants by 
making claims about undocumented immigrants' use of social 
services. However, under our laws, they are not eligible for 
the vast majority of Federal benefits.
    Beyond that, it is absurd to say that immigrants are a 
drain on the economy. Study after study have proven that the 
U.S. economy is driven by immigrants, both documented and 
undocumented.
    Undocumented immigrants pay an estimated seven billion 
dollars in sales and excise taxes, 3.6 billion dollars in 
property taxes, and 1.1 billion dollars in personal income 
taxes every year.
    In 2019 alone, Mexican undocumented households contributed 
nearly nine billion dollars in Federal, State, and local taxes. 
That same year, undocumented Mexican workers contributed 14.5 
billion dollars to social security and Medicare through the 
taxes taken out of their paychecks. Which means that they 
contributed billions of dollars to entitlement programs that 
American citizens have the access to, but those undocumented 
immigrants have no ability to benefit from.
    Immigrants don't hurt the economy. Let me say that again to 
the American people who may be watching this fiasco. Immigrants 
do not hurt the economy.
    What hurts us are antiquated laws that require the 
detention of lawful asylum seekers and inefficient and 
arbitrary waiting periods for work authorization. Laws that 
lack sufficient lawful pathways for those seeking refuge or 
better opportunities here.
    Thanks to President Biden, unemployment is at the lowest 
level in 50 years. While employers are growing, they cannot 
find the workers they need, despite attempts to hire American 
workers. The system keeps out so many immigrants who could help 
fill these crucial economic needs.
    As we have been saying for months, we need to expand lawful 
pathways for those seeking protection, to ease the burden at 
the border. As crises reverberate around the globe, and more 
people need refuge, the law remains frozen in time.
    We have not had significant updates to the overall 
immigration system in roughly 30 years. Sadly in this Congress, 
led by a party that continues to be inflicted by--continues to 
be paralyzed by self-inflicted wounds, needed immigration 
reform appears to be out of reach.
    Now, the Administration's Supplemental Border Funding 
Request, which has a lot for both parties to like, has turned 
into a partisan political football where we are refusing aid to 
Ukraine against Russian invasion, because Republicans want to 
shut down immigration.
    Ignoring this request imperils the Safe Mobility Offices in 
the hemisphere, where migrants can be assessed for eligibility 
for refugee status or other lawful pathways. These Centers 
encourage migrants to forego taking the dangerous journey to 
the border, relieving pressure at the border.
    These Centers need additional funding to be successful. 
People want to come here lawfully. When the Biden 
Administration provided parole for Cubans, Nicaraguans, and 
Haitians, border crossings between ports of entry from those 
countries dropped by 99 percent.
    Alternatively, when the Trump Administration cutoff 
refugees from the Congo, we started seeing Congolese refugees 
at the Southern border, when we had never seen them there 
before.
    We also desperately need the additional funds requested for 
the Shelter and Services Program to reimburse States, 
localities, and NGO's working to welcome migrants. These are 
vital funds that would aid many of the States that my 
colleagues on the other side of the aisle say are overburdened.
    Unfortunately, Republicans in the House remain obsessed 
with pushing H.R. 2, their cruel, extreme, and unworkable 
legislation which would only create more chaos at the border. 
The Senate has made it clear that this bill is a non-starter.
    I worry that some of my colleagues are pushing that 
legislation, because they actually have no interest in actually 
solving the problem. It is politically beneficial to them to 
have immigrants out there as a tool to create political 
division.
    Just last week, when a Member of this Subcommittee gave the 
game away, when he said quote, ``I'm not willing to do too damn 
much right now to help a Democrat and to help Joe Biden's 
approval rating.'' We have been trying an enforcement only 
strategy for 30 years.
    The results are plain for everyone to see. We can only 
solve the complex issue of immigration by addressing it 
holistically and in a bipartisan way that deals with our 
economic, our humanitarian, and our security needs. Not an end 
run around Congress for bad policy in a supplemental funding 
bill.
    I look forward to hearing from all our witnesses and the 
perspectives they bring on this issue. I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. I now recognize the Ranking Member of the 
Full Committee, Mr. Nadler, for his opening statement.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, this is a 
brand-new year. Unfortunately, my Republican colleagues are 
still running the same tired old playbook.
    There are real problems facing our Nation. The right to 
bodily autonomy is under attack across the country. From 
extreme life-threatening abortion restrictions to bans on 
healthcare for trans youth.
    We're not even two weeks into the new year, and we've 
already seen the first horrific school shooting of 2024. We are 
little more than a week away from large parts of our government 
shutting down.
    The immigration system is simply not working, because 
Congress has failed to reform it for over 30 years. What are 
House Republicans doing to respond to these problems? Mostly 
fighting among themselves.
    Their inability to govern led them to pass just 27 bills 
that were signed into law last year, marking the least 
productive session since the Great Depression. This year is 
shaping up to be no better.
    An historic dysfunction has prompted multiple Republican 
Members of this Subcommittee to complain that they have nothing 
to campaign on. Instead of laying out a legislative agenda to 
address the needs of the American people, this Committee spent 
its time yesterday focused on a subpoena of the President's 
son, chasing conspiracy theories in an impeachment inquiry that 
has not turned up a shred of evidence of wrongdoing by the 
President.
    At the same time, the House Committee on Homeland Security 
held its first official hearing on the impeachment of Homeland 
Security Secretary Mayorkas. Another inquiry completely devoid 
of fact with articles of impeachment reportedly imminent in 
that Committee.
    I do not know whether the Chair of this Committee 
deliberately waived our jurisdiction on impeachment to another 
Committee, or if Republican leadership simply took it away from 
him in an effort to appease the most extreme members of the 
MAGA Conference.
    The decision sets a terrible precedent. Either way, the 
decision is a sad commentary on the priorities of the 
Republican majority.
    They seem not to care what they break or how they diminish 
the House Judiciary Committee, while they ignore the real 
challenges facing the American people. They continue to focus 
solely on fruitless investigations, because they have no plan 
for meaningful reform to the immigration system or any idea how 
to address any of the other problems facing our Nation.
    Instead of working with Democrats toward reasonable, 
workable, bipartisan changes to the immigration system, 
Republicans will return to their tired playbook and use this 
Subcommittee to demonize immigrants.
    We'll hear in an argument largely devoid of facts and wrong 
in the law that immigrants are a drain on public benefits 
rather than the lifeblood of this country. As President Reagan 
said, quote,

        Thanks to each one of the new arrivals to this land of 
        opportunity, we're a Nation forever young, forever bursting 
        with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge, 
        always leading the world to the next frontier.

    By in large, undocumented immigrants are not eligible for 
Federal benefits. In fact, undocumented immigrants pay into 
benefits they will never be eligible to receive themselves.
    Because of this, immigrants both documented and 
undocumented, pay billions more into public benefits programs 
then they will ever get back. They are subsidizing the public.
    While Federal benefits are not available to undocumented 
immigrants, some States, like my home State of New York, and 
the Chair's home State of California, choose to offer the same 
State benefits to everyone in their State regardless of 
immigration status. That is their choice. Congress has no say 
in how States choose to utilize their tax dollars.
    To the extent that localities like New York City face 
challenges in caring for immigrants arriving from the Southern 
border, many of these challenges stem in large part from the 
desire of Texas Governor Abbott to sow chaos by refusing to 
coordinate with local officials and by choosing instead to use 
migrants as pawns in his political games.
    I am proud of New York City's history of welcoming new 
immigrants. We can and we will continue to do so. In fact, I 
was pleased to see Mayor Adams announce just yesterday, he is 
reversing all anticipated budget cuts for the NYPD, the FDNY, 
and likely the Library School, and other social services 
programs as well, which he had originally said, ``were needed 
due to the arrival of migrants in New York.''
    Congress should help, however, by providing additional 
resources. By passing bipartisan legislation to help ease the 
transition for many migrants by ensuring that they could access 
work authorization more quickly and by taking up other 
bipartisan reforms to the immigration system.
    Time and time again, House Republicans have stood in the 
way of progress, of innovation, and of compromise. Instead, 
they insist they will only consider Draconian policies that 
essentially destroy the asylum and refugee programs, policies 
that stand no chance of passage in the Senate, which shows that 
they are not interested in real solutions.
    Real solutions require compromise, and MAGA Republicans 
aren't interested in compromise. Real solutions rarely get you 
hits on Fox News or Newsmax. They won't get your Donald Trump's 
endorsement.
    Enforcement alone cannot fix the immigration system. We 
know this, because that approach has largely failed for three 
decades. People didn't stop coming when President Trump or 
Stephen Miller imposed the cruelest immigration policies 
imaginable.
    They didn't stop coming when Governor Abbott lined the Rio 
Grande with deadly buoys covered in razor wire. They have not 
stopped coming even with record levels of removals and 
repatriations and funding to immigration enforcement.
    We need to expand legal pathways, mitigate push factors, 
stamp down on corruption, and implement smart border security 
measures. We have to come together to find solutions that 
actually work and break free from the partisan entrenchments 
that have kept us stuck in the past.
    We will need more Border Control Agents, more Asylum 
Agents, and more Immigration Judges so that asylum cases can be 
adjudicated in weeks, not in years.
    We need immigrants in this country. Forget the fact that 
the farm--that our vegetables would rot in the ground if it 
weren't, if they weren't being picked by many immigrants, many 
illegal immigrants.
    The fact is that the birth rate in this country is way 
below the replacement level. Which means, our population is 
going to start shrinking. The ratio of people on Social 
Security and Medicare, is going to increase relative to the 
number of people supporting them. This is a problem faced by 
every major country in the world.
    Few countries, however, have the means to solve this 
problem through immigration. People want to immigrate to the 
United States. They do not want to immigrate to China or 
Russia.
    We are very lucky in that respect, and we should promote it 
and regulate it properly, rather than denounce it ignorantly. 
Sadly, based on the track record of the 118 Congress so far, I 
don't think that will be happening anytime soon.
    I thank the witnesses for appearing before us today. I 
yield back the balance of my time.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, the gentleman has no time to yield 
back. As content as I am in allowing the Democrats to make our 
case for us, I do want to warn them, we'll be enforcing the 
five-minute limit on opening statements in the future.
    Mr. Nadler. Point of order. There are no limits on opening 
statements in this Committee, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. There is a five-minute limit in the House 
Rules, Mr. Chair.
    Without objection, all opening statements will be included 
in the record. I'll now introduce today's witnesses.
    We have with us today, Chief Manuel Mello, III. He's the 
Chief of the Fire Department in Eagle Pass, Texas. A position 
he's served in for nearly a decade.
    Chief Mello started with the Fire Department in 1992. He 
has 35 years of experience serving his community. In May 2023, 
the Texas House of Representatives passed a Resolution honoring 
Chief Mello for his decades of service to Eagle Pass.
    Our second witness is Mr. Greg Chen. He's the Senior 
Director of Government Relations for the American Immigration 
Lawyers Association. Mr. Chen graduated from Harvard College 
and received his law degree from NYU Law School.
    Our third witness is Steve Camarota. He's the Director of 
Research for the Center for Immigration Studies and has written 
extensively on the economic, fiscal, and demographic impact of 
immigration.
    Dr. Camarota holds a Master's Degree in Political Science 
from the University of Pennsylvania. He earned a Doctorate in 
Public Policy Analysis from the University of Virginia.
    Finally, we have with us Ms. Danyela Souza Egorov. Ms. 
Souza Egorov is the Vice President of the Community Education 
Council for New York City School District 2, in Manhattan.
    She holds a Master's in Public Policy Analysis from the 
University of Virginia. Pardon me, a degree in Public Policy 
from Harvard Kennedy School.
    Ms. Egorov is also currently the Project Director for A 
Parent Powered, New York. A legal immigrant from Brazil, Ms. 
Souza Egorov lives in New York City with her family.
    We welcome our witnesses. We thank you for appearing today. 
We'll begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and raise 
your right hand?
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and beliefs, so help you God?
    [Chorus of I do.]
    Mr. McClintock. Great. Thank you very much. Let the record 
reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. 
You may be seated.
    Please know your written testimony will be entered into the 
record in its entirety. Accordingly, we'd ask that you 
summarize your testimony in five minutes.
    We'll begin with Chief Mello.

              STATEMENT OF CHIEF MANUEL MELLO, III

    Chief Mello. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal, and 
distinguished Members of the Committee. Thank you for the 
opportunity to speak to you today on the impact of illegal 
immigration on social services, especially the fire department, 
our fire department.
    The Eagle Pass Fire Department, the Maverick County--
Maverick County is located approximately 140 miles Southwest of 
San Antonio, Texas. Eagle Pass is the county seat and borders 
the city of Piedras Negras, Coahuila, Mexico, just across the 
Rio Grande River.
    Both cities share approximately 120 miles of precious 
river. We have a population of approximately 70 thousand, which 
includes the city and the county. A fluctuating population of 
approximately 5,000-10,000 additional visitors to the community 
at any given time.
    The Fire Department is a small department with three 
stations located strategically within the city limits. Each 
station has six members, six firefighters on a daily basis 
trained in EMS, paramedics or basic EMS, or EMTs.
    Total personnel for the Fire Department are 52 on shift 
firefighters and ten support staff. Twelve of the personnel are 
cross-trained in swift water rescue and are divided into three 
team members per shift.
    Eagle Pass Fire Department is the main 911 EMS provider in 
the community. We respond to 7,500 EMS calls on a yearly basis. 
All our emergency ambulance transports go straight to the only 
hospital, which is Fort Duncan Medical Center, which has 18 
emergency room beds.
    Aside from EMS, the Eagle Pass Fire also responds to grass 
fires, house and commercial building fires, and all motor 
vehicle accidents on two major highways and several Farm to 
Market roads within our county. The nearest fire department, in 
case of a mutual aid, is one hour away, if available.
    In 2021, when the migrant influx started to increase, we 
were below staffing due to different reasons such as personnel 
retiring, or personnel leaving due to the demands of the job, 
while others left to seek better employment and benefits. Since 
then, we started a more aggressive employment strategy because 
of the demand.
    In 2023, EMS transports increased to over nine thousand 
calls for assistance. Approximately 10 percent were migrant 
related. Our drownings pre-2020 were approximately 8-12 per 
year. As of December 2023, we had recorded 43 migrant body 
recoveries for this year, for that year.
    These body recoveries include men, women, and children 
ranging from two months to 15 years old. As a witness to many 
incidents, I am here to tell you, we are being overwhelmed with 
EMS calls and body recoveries.
    In my 33 years of service, I have not experienced this many 
calls. There are days it seems that the ambulance wails never 
stop.
    Going to the river or areas along the river's edge where 
the crossings are frequent, has become a norm for us, with 
little or no help from anyone, not even the Federal Government.
    I have attached a summary of incident so you can have an 
idea of what my men and women go through. There is a summary of 
two Nicaraguan children that drowned in the Rio Grande River by 
Eagle Pass Monday, August 22, 2022.
    The first call came in approximately at 12:59 p.m. An EMS 
unit and a swift water rescue team responded to the incident 
located underneath one of the Eagle Pass/Piedras Negras 
International Bridges by the Rio Grande River.
    On arrival, Border Patrol were performing CPR on a three-
month old infant. This patient was transported to Fort Duncan 
Medical Center with a faint pulse. This infant was later 
transported to University Hospital in San Antonio in critical 
condition, where he later died.
    As the first patient, the three-month-old, was being 
treated at Fort Duncan Medical Center, the second 911 call came 
in at 13:37 for a three-year old. An additional ambulance and 
crew responded with the swift water rescue team to the same 
area where the first patient had been located.
    On arrival, the EMS crews were advised by Border Patrol 
that the infant child, or the child was related to the infant 
and had crossed the river at the same time with family members. 
He was a three-month-old baby brother.
    EMS crews were directed to a pickup truck where the body of 
the child had been placed prior to EMS arrival. All efforts to 
revise had ceased due to the length of time the patient had 
been underwater.
    The child had last been seen at approximately 12:45. Based 
on the presentation and time of the patient underwater, it was 
determined the child had expired.
    This is just one of many incidents. For example, the mother 
and the daughter that were walking on the side of a major 
highway, both struck and killed by a vehicle during a 
rainstorm.
    The countless children dehydrated or with hypothermia and 
in shock that are transported to the hospitals. Young ladies 
going into labor as soon as they cross the river. Other 
incidents, including the rail car accidents where amputations 
are common.
    [The prepared statement of Chief Mello follows:]

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    Mr. McClintock. I'm afraid your time has expired. We'll get 
back to the points you want to make during the question and 
answer session.
    Next, I'm pleased to recognize Mr. Chen, the Democratic 
invited witness, for five minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF GREGORY CHEN

    Mr. Chen. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal, and 
Members of the Subcommittee, I am Greg Chen, the Senior 
Director of Government Relations for the American Immigration 
Lawyers Association.
    The good news is that immigrants have helped make America 
stronger and more prosperous. Every day they contribute to its 
future. To ensure the Nation's prosperity, Congress must 
overhaul the immigration system to meet the country's needs.
    First, the Federal Government should address unprecedented 
refugee flows worldwide that have pushed more people to the 
U.S. borders. The Federal Government must ensure the orderly, 
efficient, and fair processing of migrants.
    Congress should adequately fund Federal agencies to screen 
cases more quickly, to guarantee protection for people who are 
eligible for legal relief, and to remove those who are not 
eligible in a safe and humane manner. Essential to a fair and 
efficient process is ensuring that everybody in the process has 
legal representation.
    Nationwide, city officials and local service providers are 
welcoming arriving immigrants. Some cities are experiencing 
real challenges and need more Federal support. Congress should 
approve what Mayors of both political parties are asking for, 
and that is an increase for FEMA's Shelter and Services 
Program, SSP, that funds short term services.
    To help cities, governments must also coordinate and share 
information better. Unannounced buses filled with people are 
political stunts that make it harder for cities to welcome 
arrivals.
    Another critical step is getting work permits for migrants 
who are eligible to work, as soon as possible so they can 
achieve self-sufficiency. To speed up the work permit process, 
last fall government officials set up emergency clinics with 
volunteer AILA members and other NGO's. The Federal Government 
should take more steps like this to get more people working.
    Importantly, effective migration management will not be 
achieved by focusing only on the border. Congress must also 
address systemic delays at all immigration agencies, 
particularly USCIS, the Immigration Courts and Consulates 
abroad.
    The months and years long delays in nearly every 
immigration category exacerbate bottlenecks. In border 
processing, the delays even compel people with approved visas 
for immigrant categories to come to the border.
    Some people think the United States should turn away 
immigrants at the border and restrict immigration. That would 
be a mistake.
    The overwhelming evidence shows that immigrants provide 
enormous benefits to the United States. They are a huge engine 
of economic growth and contribute billions of dollars in 
Federal, State, and local taxes annually.
    They consume far less per capita in public benefits then 
U.S. citizens. Ultimately, it is the ineffective immigration 
system, not immigrants that hold back the Nation's growth.
    Congress' inability to update immigrant visa numbers are 
hurting families and businesses. American families now suffer 
prolonged waits, months, even decades for family visas.
    American businesses across industry sectors are 
experiencing historic labor shortages. They need people to fill 
positions that cannot be filled by U.S. workers.
    In 2022, Jerome Powell, the Chair of the Federal Reserve 
said labor shortages are partly caused by quote, ``a plunge in 
net immigration.''
    In Florida, a lack of workers has forced farmers to cut 
back production. The Republican Governors of Utah and Indiana 
are asking Congress to create legal pathways for more workers 
to come for their State.
    Congress can no longer put aside what it has been pushing 
aside for over three decades. It must pass laws that establish 
adequate legal pathways to meet the country's needs.
    Congress should also do what the great majority of 
Americans want, and that is to provide permanent legal status 
for Dreamers and other people who are undocumented. They are 
contributing every day to this country, and they'll continue to 
make the Nation prosper.
    Everyone agrees, America needs a better functioning 
immigration system. We need a system that recognizes 
immigration is vital to our national interest, that secures the 
Nation's continuing prosperity, and that ensures a fair and 
orderly border processing system.
    Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Chen follows:]

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    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Our next witness is Dr. 
Camarota.

                STATEMENT OF STEVEN A. CAMAROTA

    Mr. Camarota. Mr. Chair and Members of the Committee, thank 
you for inviting me to testify on the impact of illegal 
immigration on public services.
    Allowing widespread illegal immigration raises profound 
concerns across a host of issues, from public safety and 
national security to the impact on American workers, and the 
rule of law. While these impacts are all important, I'm only 
going to focus on the fiscal impact and the impact on public 
services today.
    Now, one of the main reasons we're here, is that the 
current surge of illegal immigration appears to be 
unprecedented. I've estimated that the illegal population since 
President Biden took office has grown by nearly three million.
    That's not the number of new illegal immigrants, that's the 
number--that's the net increase, which is always offset by 
legalizations, out-migrations, and natural mortality. The 
number of new additions is much higher.
    Now, why do illegal immigrants pay less in taxes than they 
use in services and create a fiscal drain? The reason is pretty 
simple. It's because such a large share has modest levels of 
education, resulting in relatively low average incomes and tax 
payments, coupled with significant use of many public benefits.
    Prior research indicates that 69 percent of adults who are 
illegal immigrants have no education beyond high school, 
compared to about 35 percent of the U.S. born population. The 
fiscal drain illegal immigrants create is not because they are 
freeloaders who all came to get welfare. That would be a 
mistake to think that way.
    Nevertheless, the National Academy of Science's estimate of 
immigrants' fiscal impact by education level, using that we 
estimate that the lifetime fiscal drain, all taxes paid, all 
services used for illegal immigrants, given their education 
roll call is about 68 thousand dollars.
    Some of the largest costs are things you might guess: 
Welfare programs, public education, and treatment for the 
uninsured. Based on the survey of incoming program 
participation, we estimate that 59 percent of households headed 
by illegal immigrants use one of the major welfare programs, 
compared to 39 percent for U.S. born households.
    Use of these programs' likely totals, by illegal 
immigrants, is about 42 billion dollars a year. Now, some might 
wonder, how is that possible? Aren't illegal immigrants banned 
from all these programs?
    First, illegal immigrant families can receive welfare on 
behalf of their U.S. born children. More than half of illegal 
immigrant families have U.S. born children.
    Also, illegal immigrants under the age of 18, are allowed 
to receive a number of programs directly, like free school 
meals and WIC. Illegal immigrants can also receive Medicaid 
directly under some circumstances. Many States go further in 
providing more access to Medicaid.
    Some States also provide food stamps to illegal immigrants. 
Also, I'll add, several million illegal immigrants have work 
authorization and valid social security numbers, allowing them 
to receive the earned income tax credit.
    The high rate of welfare use by illegal immigrants is not 
explained by an unwillingness to work. That's critically 
important. We estimate 94 percent of all illegal immigrant 
households have at least one worker, compared to only 73 
percent of U.S. born households.
    It is critically important to remember that welfare uses 
and work go together. In fact, the majority of illegal 
immigrants and U.S. born households using the welfare system 
have a worker. The Nation's welfare system is designed 
specifically to help low-wage workers with children.
    Now, in addition to welfare, we estimate about 68 billion 
dollars in costs for educating illegal immigrants and their 
children, and about seven billion in costs for treating the 
uninsured.
    Now, my estimate is actually higher than the one cited by 
Congresswoman Jayapal. I estimate that just to the Federal 
Government, illegal immigrants pay about 26 billion dollars a 
year in income tax, but also Social Security and Medicaid. It's 
just nowhere near enough even to cover their use of the welfare 
programs.
    Finally, illegal immigration does make the U.S. economy 
larger. I've estimated at least, and this is a minimum 
estimate, three hundred billion dollars larger because they're 
here.
    This is not a measure of their contribution. Nor, is it a 
measure of a benefit to the U.S. born. Almost all the increase 
in economic activity goes to the illegal immigrants themselves 
in the form of wages, as it should, since they're the ones 
doing the work.
    Now, if we do not enforce our laws and instead allow 
illegal immigration to continue unabated, the strain on public 
services will continue to grow. Resulting in either higher 
taxes or cuts in services for American citizens, many of whom 
are often quite poor.
    Many cities across America are dealing with this reality 
right now even as we speak. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Camarota follows:]

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    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Finally, we have with us Ms. 
Souza Egorov, welcome.

               STATEMENT OF DANYELA SOUZA EGOROV

    Ms. Souza Egorov. Thank you. My name is Danyela Souza 
Egorov. I'm an immigrant from Brazil.
    Mr. McClintock. You have to fix--talk.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Thank you. My name is Danyela Souza 
Egorov. I'm an immigrant from Brazil. My husband is an 
immigrant from Ukraine. My husband's relatives are war refugees 
here in the U.S. under the United Free Ukraine Program.
    New York City is our home. I believe legal immigration has 
made New York one of the best cities in the world. The current 
crisis of open borders and no policy to prioritize who should 
be allowed to enter the country, is threatening New York City.
    This week, four thousand students at James Madison High 
School in Brooklyn, were kicked out of their school in the 
middle of the day to turn that school building into a migrant 
shelter overnight. This made headlines across the Nation, but 
it is what New Yorkers have been dealing with since this crisis 
started.
    Our city has received over 160 thousand migrants in the 
past year. This has had a devastating impact on the city's 
finance and social services.
    In 2023 alone, New York City spent over five billion 
dollars to provide housing and other services for new migrants. 
Our Mayor, Eric Adams, estimates that this will cost 12 billion 
dollars over the next three years.
    I'm a public-school parent and serve as Vice President of 
the Community Education Council for School District 2, 
Manhattan. Every day, I hear from my community concerns about 
the impact of this crisis in our schools.
    Here are some concrete examples. Last October, Mayor Adams 
canceled the classes of 215 Community New York School Safety 
Agents, which are desperately needed in our schools. He said 
that parents would have to volunteer to keep our schools safe.
    Many schools have little notice about when they will 
receive new influx of students. They don't have time to hire 
ESL teachers and staff to serve them adequately.
    To balance the budget, New York City will no longer offer 
preschool for every three-year-old who needs that in our city.
    District 75, which serves the students with severe 
disabilities, and is the most vulnerable population in our 
schools, will have to cut one million dollars per school and 
reduce staff. This will impact after school programs, create an 
even bigger shortage of paraprofessionals, which might put our 
schools out of compliance with student special education plans, 
which are legally binding.
    Parents in my community cannot understand why the new 
students were exempt from the vaccines required by the New York 
State, which our students have to take, even though there has 
already been an outbreak of varicella at the school in our 
district.
    The facts unfortunately, are not limited to the schools. 
The elderly were kicked out of their housing to make space for 
migrant shelters, including a 95-year-old Korean War veteran.
    The budget cuts to finance this crisis will impact every 
city agency. Our libraries are not opening on Sundays anymore. 
The Fire Department of New York has reduced its head count by 
more than 50 people.
    The New York State Comptroller, Thomas DiNapoli, warned 
that New York City is quote, ``teetering on a fiscal cliff,'' 
because of this migrant crisis.
    Since 1990, no more than 45 thousand people were granted 
asylum in the U.S. per year. Last year there were two and a 
half million border crossings on our Southern border.
    According to the Migration Policy Institute, there are more 
than 1.3 million asylum applications pending. It takes on 
average, four years to complete the process.
    New Yorkers want to know, what is the plan to end this 
crisis? What is the plan?
    If migrants are receiving letters with an appointment in 
immigration court to process their asylum in 10 years, in 2030-
2033, will New York taxpayers pay for hotel rooms and shelters 
over the next decade? Will we have to incur five billion 
dollars in expenses every year? How many more services do low-
income New York citizens have to lose to finance this policy?
    In New York City, nearly 40 percent of New Yorkers are 
foreign born. Sixty percent live in a household where at least 
one family was born abroad, like my family. We know exactly why 
people want to live in such a prosperous free city and country.
    New Yorkers today feel abandoned by our Mayor, by our 
Governor, by our City Comptroller, and by the City Council. 
None of them are focused on the interests of New Yorkers and of 
taxpayers.
    That is why I'm here asking Congress to look at the 
situation before New York City is completely bankrupt, before 
more low-income New Yorkers lose even more services, and our 
greatest American city cannot come back. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Souza Egorov follows:]

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    Mr. McClintock. Thank you again for your testimony. We will 
now proceed to five-minute questions from the Members of the 
Subcommittee.
    Because of some scheduling issues, we'll begin with Mr. 
Roy.
    Mr. Roy. Thank you, Chair, very much. I appreciate all the 
witnesses for coming in here today. Mr. Mello, it's great to 
have you in from the great State of Texas. Appreciate you 
coming up.
    I'm going to start with you. Because I know firsthand, from 
my friends and folks that I've gotten to know very well in 
Eagle Pass and along the Rio Grande, I know what you're dealing 
with. We talk regularly.
    I'm sorry about it. I'm deeply apologetic that the Federal 
Government has completely abandoned its duty to do its job at 
the border and let the people of Eagle Pass and the people of 
Texas stranded holding the bag, having to deal with obviously 
the impact on your communities.
    So, I would just like to hear from you. I know you didn't 
get a chance to finish your statement. Can you tell me--I've 
got information here that suggests that with respect to the EMS 
calls that your agency receives a day that are migrant related, 
I've got information that says the Eagle Pass Fire Department 
receives an average 45 calls a day, 30 of them, or 65 percent, 
being placed by migrants.
    Does that sound right to you?
    Mr. Mello. That is a--can you repeat the numbers, please?
    Mr. Roy. Forty-five calls a day, 30 of them, or 65 percent 
being placed by migrants.
    Mr. Mello. That's correct.
    Mr. Roy. That's right. That puts a particular strain on 
your job, correct? On your facilities and resources, right?
    Mr. Mello. Of course, on a regular basis we would make 22-
30 calls. So, that would be on a regular basis where there's no 
migrants involved.
    Mr. Roy. It can't be cheap to constantly respond to these 
calls, right? So, the average cost for a call for services is 
about seven hundred dollars, right?
    What it totals out to each day would be about 21 thousand 
dollars a day to respond to migrants in need of EMS. Does that 
sound right?
    Mr. Mello. The 21 thousand dollars is a little overrated, 
sir. We're looking at more like between 15-18 thousand.
    Mr. Roy. OK. So, 15, we want to get the facts right. That's 
still a lot of money, right? Fifteen to 18 thousand dollars a 
day to respond to migrants in need of EMS?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Roy. OK. That jump has no doubt put a strain on your 
employees. Is it fair to say that Eagle Pass residents have to 
wait longer for EMS and fire service than usual when you're 
overwhelmed as a result of the border crisis, the number of 
migrants that have to call into your services?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Roy. Some reports put the cost of this surge for the 
city of Eagle Pass at 2.2 million dollars since mid-September. 
Does that sound right to you?
    Mr. Mello. That sounds--that sounds a little over.
    Mr. Roy. OK.
    Mr. Mello. I would put it at probably half of that amount.
    Mr. Roy. OK.
    Mr. Mello. Because it fluctuates.
    Mr. Roy. OK. So, a million dollars through, since mid-
September on the costs that affect Eagle Pass. That's a million 
dollars directly as a consequence of that surge is being 
absorbed by the folks at Eagle Pass.
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Roy. Since September. So, of course, with all of this, 
has the Federal Government reimbursed your agency for any of 
these costs meaningfully?
    Mr. Mello. No, sir.
    Mr. Roy. OK. Not at all. Well, thank you for that. I'm 
sorry that we're not doing a better job to make sure that you 
all can do your job without getting overwhelmed.
    Mr. Camarota, let me just ask a couple of quick questions. 
As of October 2023, the foreign-born population in the United 
States is 49\1/2\ million people. Is that correct?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. About 15 percent of the United States population. 
Is that correct?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes.
    Mr. Roy. Is that not at roughly the highest levels we've 
ever had? It's been there once or twice before, but now we're 
eclipsing it?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes. The top was 1890 at 14.8 percent. 
America has never been here before. Of course, we're headed 
into uncharted territory in terms of the foreign born share of 
the U.S. population.
    Mr. Roy. Right. This population is growing, the foreign-
born population by 4\1/2\ million under President Biden. So, in 
other words, that 49\1/2\ million is skyrocketing and blowing 
off that number. Correct?
    Mr. Camarota. Right. If this were to continue, again, we 
would set new records every month.
    Mr. Roy. Does that not have an effect on education with 
respect to foreign-born individuals who do not speak English 
and the demands on schools?
    Mr. Camarota. Right. Since the United States spends about 
17,000 dollars a year, a little more than that, but per 
student, the cost of educating children of immigrant families 
is one of the biggest challenges.
    On illegal immigrants, we know that they're just not being 
able to pay enough, anywhere near enough in taxes to cover that 
cost. Creating real strains.
    Mr. Roy. It's a significant upward tick on the use of 
welfare programs?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes. Illegal immigrants do make extensive use 
of welfare programs. Which reflects their educational 
attainment.
    In other words, less educated native-born people use about 
the same. It's just that the immigrants are so much less 
educated on average that overall, they have much higher use 
rates.
    Mr. Roy. So, you would agree that the illegal immigration 
problem at the border is having a massive strain on public 
resources across the country, in particular, in Texas in border 
communities and counties?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes. As I said in my testimony, just for 
illegal immigrants, about 68 billion in public education. 
That's for the whole illegal population.
    About 42 billion in welfare costs. Again, that's for the 
whole population, not just the newcomers.
    Mr. Roy. Thank you, sir.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Jayapal for five minutes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Despite the title of 
this hearing and the claims by the majority, immigrants are a 
huge engine of economic growth for the American economy.
    Study after study shows that immigrants are less likely to 
use benefits that they are eligible for. Actually contribute 
tens of billions of dollars more into public benefit programs 
then they ever receive.
    A lack of lawful pathways and an inability to obtain work 
authorization quickly when they do come through the Southern 
border, are the actual issues that need to be resolved.
    So, Mr. Chen, we see a lot of misinformation circulating 
online, and repeated in the halls of Congress, and even in this 
Committee, about the types of benefits that are available to 
undocumented immigrants, including those seeking asylum.
    So, can you please succinctly and clearly confirm whether 
undocumented immigrants can access Federal benefits like 
Medicare and Medicaid or healthcare through the ACA?
    Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. The 
simple answer is, they are not eligible. Undocumented 
immigrants are not eligible for all those Federal benefits that 
you just cited.
    Ms. Jayapal. What about Social Security? Do undocumented 
immigrants pay into benefit programs like Social Security?
    Do they benefit from Social Security?
    Mr. Chen. They do pay in billions of dollars, undocumented 
immigrants, into the Social Security system, and through taxes 
annually. They are not eligible to receive those benefits.
    Ms. Jayapal. As you know, there have been a lot of 
discussions over the last two months in the U.S. Senate about 
permanently changing immigration laws, including raising the 
screening standard for asylum seekers, limiting the 
Administration's ability to use parole, expanding interior 
enforcement and the use of expedited removal, and a new Title 
42 like expulsion authority.
    Many of those proposed changes would make the border much 
more chaotic. Can you discuss the importance of processing 
migrants at the border more efficiently and fairly?
    How that would positively impact American communities and 
cities?
    Mr. Chen. So, the kinds of solutions that are now being 
proposed either to provide power to shut down the border or to 
shut down legal pathways that have been use, like parole, those 
are not going to be affective, because people will still come 
to the U.S. border and what we will see is, humanitarian 
crises.
    We'll see a chaos at the Southern border, where people are 
going to be waiting. They'll be preyed on by cartels and gangs. 
That will create less safe communities on both sides of the 
border.
    That is not efficient or fair or orderly processing. What 
we do need, is those kinds of steps. It begins with funding 
immigration agencies operating at the border to be able to 
process people more quickly, more efficiently, and in an 
orderly way.
    Also to assure that people who are eligible for relief, 
like asylum, have a fair shot at it. By doing that, making the 
system more effective as you were describing, or asking, cities 
and communities in the United States will have a better system 
for people arriving.
    They'll have more awareness of when people are arriving. 
That's the coordination need for the Federal Government to help 
play that role.
    Importantly, we'll see gains. We'll see gains for the 
country in the long term because immigrants do contribute 
economically far more than they use in let's say public 
benefits. That is going to strengthen our Nation.
    That's an incredible opportunity that we should be able to 
harness through real reforms to the system.
    Ms. Jayapal. Real reforms that expand the lawful pathways 
for people who are seeking protection, something I've been 
saying for over 30 years. Congress hasn't updated our legal 
immigration system to keep up with the demands and the needs of 
the country.
    So, the Biden Administration, like every administration 
before, Republican and Democratic, has used parole, this idea 
of parole. Can you discuss the importance of this parole 
authority that, as I said, has been used by every President 
over the last 70 years?
    Mr. Chen. Yes. So, parole was created in the 1950's, dating 
back to President Eisenhower. It was used to protect people 
fleeing from Hungary, from Cuba during the cold war.
    In the past 70 years, it's been used many times to 
designate special populations for protection. Most recently, 
President Biden has used it to protect Ukrainians, Afghans, 
and, also, Cuban, Haitian, Nicaraguan, and Venezuelans.
    The important piece of parole to recognize, is that it 
alleviates pressure at the border. People coming in through 
parole under the Uniting for Ukraine Program, during its first 
14 months when people were eligible to apply for parole under 
that program, we saw a decrease of almost everybody from 
Ukraine coming at the Southern border, 99.9 percent during 
those 14 months.
    Similarly, they're not as significant results for the C, H, 
and V countries. The fact is a safer, orderly, legal pathway to 
allow people to come, alleviates pressure at the border and 
will improve border processing. That's why this is so vital.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chen. Ms. Souza Egorov, thank 
you so much for your moving testimony. I assume you spoke 
highly of the Uniting for Ukraine Program.
    I assume you support that program?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I support and I can tell you that the 
process to vet my family--
    Ms. Jayapal. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, that's--thank you.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Is going to be very expensive and it has 
not happened yet. The Southern border--
    Ms. Jayapal. I just wanted to know if you wanted to 
continue that program, because Republicans have actually 
refused to continue that program.
    In H.R. 2 it would eliminate the Uniting for Ukraine 
Program. I have an amendment to keep that in and Republicans 
voted against it.
    Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Next is Mr. Biggs.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to all the 
witnesses. The interesting thing about parole is this, over the 
last 25 years, before the Biden Administration, parole was 
administered on average, 15 times a year.
    The statute is very clear, it's meant to be a 
particularized, individualized program. That is exactly what 
Secretary Mayorkas confessed and admitted was the purpose of 
parole when he testified.
    Yet, in the last 18 months, over a million people have 
received parole, parole status. You want to know what draws 
people to the border?
    It is catch and release programs like parole. Where they're 
given documentation to go work for a couple of years and then 
you lose track of them.
    Because right now, right now as our witnesses testified, 
the actual court dates for your asylum claim are nine, ten, and 
12 years off. That's what's happening in Eagle Pass right now. 
They're moving that far past.
    It's good to see Chief Mello here. I had an opportunity to 
meet with you last week. Thank you for taking time with us.
    I just want to clarify, your Fire Department has five 
ambulances. Is that right?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. Of those five ambulances, how big is your 
service area and the population for your Fire Department?
    Mr. Mello. It's 12 hundred square miles and we cover 120 
miles of river front.
    Mr. Biggs. The population?
    Mr. Mello. Population 70 thousand. It fluctuates from 70 
thousand to 60, 65 thousand.
    Mr. Biggs. Of your five--
    Mr. Mello. Ten thousand more, 80 thousand.
    Mr. Biggs. Of your five ambulances, you dedicate one almost 
every day to solely to dealing with illegal migrants. Is that 
right?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. Occasionally you have to go beyond one and two, 
or maybe more.
    Mr. Mello. Of course. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. That imposes constraints on how you service 
legal residents of your service area?
    Mr. Mello. Sometimes our residents are left without an 
ambulance service.
    Mr. Biggs. So, I also met with the head of the Fort Duncan 
Hospital, Regional Hospital, last week as well. What he was 
confiding in us was that the local residents, many are 
wondering why those who are here in the country illegally are 
getting treated ahead of them.
    His response is, well, it's acuity. Of course, it's acuity. 
Because those people are illegally in the country, they are 
displacing the local residents regardless of acuity. Right?
    Is that fair to say?
    Mr. Mello. We have times where there's been a two-hour wait 
for our patients inside the ambulance, just to try to get one 
patient inside, a local resident inside the hospital.
    Mr. Biggs. Yes. So, I appreciate what's going on in New 
York. That sounds terrific. I want to put context to it as 
well. You guys are dealing with it in New York.
    A community of 70 thousand in Eagle Pass is dealing with 
it, and you saw a massive surge of illegal migration over the 
last
4-5 weeks, right?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Biggs. I also went down to Lukeville. Lukeville has a 
population of 35. In Lukeville, over the last three weeks, more 
than 30 thousand illegal migrants entered.
    There are no services in Lukeville, Ajo. Ajo which is kind 
of where the CBP is centered there, they have no services.
    It's overwhelming. I stood there and watched gaps in the 
fence created by cartel coyotes who are coming and cutting the 
fence. The day I was there they'd already repaired six 
different locations.
    We drove miles. There's no CBP even able to patrol. Why is 
that? They were all at the processing center where I visited 
and saw individuals from Guinea, Burkina Faso, Senegal, India, 
and Pakistan.
    I am stunned. I am stunned when I hear people say, well, 
there is no--effectively we need to change the immigration 
system.
    You know what, Mr. Camarota, EMTALA. Who gets EMTALA? Who 
can get EMTALA?
    Do you have to be a citizen? Does anybody ask you if you 
are a citizen before you get EMTALA benefits when you go to the 
hospital?
    Mr. Camarota. No. Obviously if it's emergency care, anyone 
immediately gets benefits.
    Mr. Biggs. It's not just emergency care anymore. The ED is 
now used as a general and primary physician. You go in because 
you have the flu. You don't go to your doctor, because these 
individuals don't have doctors.
    I'd be very curious to know what your study would reveal, 
excuse me. I'm sure it would reveal with regard to the use of 
EMTALA benefits, because trust me, in Eagle Pass, they are 
using EMTALA benefits to go in there and overwhelm that 
hospital.
    I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Mr. Nadler.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Chen, since the Spring of 2022, Governor Abbott of 
Texas has bussed over 90,000 asylum seekers to cities across 
the United States, sending approximately one-third of them to 
New York City. He has done this without any coordination with 
the receiving cities.
    You touched on this in your opening statement. In fact, it 
was yesterday that a CBS article highlighted how Texas 
sabotaged efforts by nonprofits to create a more orderly 
system. I would like to submit that article for the record.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chen, how does this lack of coordination 
make it harder for nonprofits and cities to help welcome and 
integrate migrants into their communities?
    Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question. I think the main 
issue here is the surprise factor. When unannounced buses are 
coming at different times, sometimes late at night, and the 
welcoming cities or service providers are not aware when they 
are going to come, it is just going to make it more difficult 
for a shelter to make sure there is adequate bed space.
    For other service providers providing perhaps emergency 
medical care or other needs, it is going to be much more 
challenging for them, and that is why there needs to be better 
coordination and support from the Federal Government like the 
Shelter and Services Program that provides assistance to fund 
local provision of services.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Over a million people are in the 
asylum backlog. The average adjudication wait time for the 
asylum application is now over four years. Mr. Biggs pointed 
out that it takes years to process asylum claims. The Biden 
Administration's supplemental funding request included a 
request for funding to hire more immigration judges and asylum 
officers.
    How would hiring additional adjudicators help tackle the 
backlog, speed up processing, and improve conditions at the 
border?
    Mr. Chen. It would help in a very direct way. AILA supports 
the request in the Biden supplemental funding request for 1,600 
more asylum officers to be hired. Having more asylum officers 
will speed up the process for screening cases of people who are 
asking for asylum. That is simply going to make it more 
expeditious and also fairer for the system overall.
    What it will do is that kind of a benefit will inure to the 
overall system, because what we see now is that USCIS doesn't 
have enough case officers to handle other kinds of cases, such 
as employment-based benefits, family based benefits. So, we see 
delays across the board unless you fund USCIS to have enough 
asylum officers and other case officers.
    Mr. Nadler. So, this would greatly reduce what Republicans 
refer to as ``catch and release''?
    Mr. McClintock. It would help avoid the need for people 
that are coming not to be able to be screened quickly enough 
and to wait for their cases for a long period of time.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Chen, for much of our history, 
our country welcomed immigrants with open arms and in very 
large numbers. In fact, when Ellis Island was operational, in 
one year alone it processed over a million people. If we 
compare that level of intake to today's population of New York 
City, it will mean that Ellis Island admitted the equivalent of 
17,770 people a day, and 6\1/2\ million people in a year. Such 
high numbers of arrivals didn't negatively impact the city 
economically. For much of the 20th century, countless 
industries were fueled by the influx of immigrants.
    Were those who arrived through Ellis Island able to work as 
soon as they got to the United States? What has changed between 
then and now?
    Mr. Chen. That is the lynchpin issue that you just touched 
on there, sir. The fact is that immigrants arriving at Ellis 
Island were able to work immediately. Asylum seekers now, and 
many immigrants who are coming, are not eligible to work 
initially, and they need to apply for work permits for those 
who are. That delay makes it harder for those recent arrivals 
to become self-sufficient quickly.
    Immigrants can contribute tremendously to the country. If 
they are able to sustain themselves, they will get out of 
shelters more quickly and be able to support themselves and 
their families.
    What we have seen statistically is estimates that if asylum 
seekers, the numbers were to decrease by 10 percent, you would 
see about a $9 billion loss in overall economic benefit to the 
country over about a five-year period. That is further 
indication of how much asylum seekers and immigrants coming 
will contribute if they are allowed to work.
    Mr. Nadler. Now, how long do asylum seekers have to wait 
before they may apply for employment authorization? How does 
this waiting period hurt employers and asylum seekers in the 
United States? Wouldn't you think that asylum seekers should be 
given work authorization immediately on arrival?
    Mr. Chen. So, asylum seekers typically have to wait 180 
days, six months, before they are allowed to work coming into 
the country. That period means that asylum seekers aren't able 
to become self-sufficient as quickly as they otherwise might 
be. The important step here is to be able to have asylum 
seekers apply more quickly.
    Actually, Congresswoman Chellie Pingree has the Asylum 
Seeker Work Authorization Act that has supports that would 
enable that. It would also make sure that the period during 
which they could work would match the time during which they 
are waiting for their asylum application to be granted, rather 
than having to apply to renew those work permits on a regular 
basis.
    The fact is if it takes four years for somebody to get 
their asylum case looked at and granted, you don't want them 
having to renew regularly that work permit application, because 
it is actually taking about 16 months right now to renew work 
permits. So, those are all ways to speed up the system, make it 
work more efficiently, and make sure that people that are here 
are able to work and contribute.
    Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Chair Jordan.
    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Ms. Souza Egorov, thank you. Well, thank you all for being 
here.
    Ms. Egorov, I want to talk more about the children and what 
is happening to kids in the New York schools. In your 
testimony, you said at your last meeting you had a mother talk 
about how school buses are overcrowded, that her son has only 
been on time to school I think a couple times in the entire 
school year, which is unbelievable.
    You said migrant students are exempt from vaccines. You 
have had some outbreak of something here. Safety agents 
training to protect kids at school has been curtailed. Students 
with disabilities, their schools have been cut $1 million per 
school. This is after the kids have just gone through the whole 
COVID experience and everything else.
    Now, we have seen in the news the last couple of days what 
has happened with the one school where the kids--go home and 
learn from home. We are going to put migrants in the schools. 
So, this to me seem to be the issue that I think is really 
hitting a nerve with the American people, like this is 
happening to our kids.
    How many migrant students are in the New York public 
school's system this school year, new migrant students are in 
the system?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I don't have that specific number. What I 
can tell is that in my district I believe the last number was 
around 5,000. My district is two-thirds of Manhattan. In my 
district, we have a lot of hotel rooms that are being used as 
shelters and where families are prioritized. So, we have a 
disproportionate number of families as in the shelters, because 
of course they are--
    Chair Jordan. The comptroller--in your testimony, you gave 
a quote from the comptroller, and he says, ``12,000 migrant 
students in the New York City public schools since June 30th.'' 
Is that an accurate number, in your judgment?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I believe so, yes.
    Chair Jordan. Twelve thousand new students brought into the 
schools in just the last seven months. That seems to be--
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. Do you have children in the New York public 
schools?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I do have.
    Chair Jordan. Have you seen an impact with your kids in the 
type of education they are getting?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. What I have seen is an impact in the 
entire district. So, from the buses that are running late, in 
particular, just principals are very concerned because they 
never know when they are going to get new students.
    I am the founding board chair of a charter school in 
Brooklyn that was specifically designed for students who don't 
speak English. I know how much it takes--
    Chair Jordan. Yep.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. --to teach children who don't speak 
English at home, like my kids, to learn English. It is very 
specifically designed work. You need qualified teachers. Even 
if we have the resources, there are just not enough ESL 
qualified teachers in New York City to be hired.
    The other thing that I think is very important is the 
safety issue, because this is the no. 1 thing that I hear from 
parents in my community. They want more school safety agents in 
their buildings. There is a lack of school safety agents.
    The fact that Mayor Adams had to cancel this class, which I 
can't tell you how desperately needed it is, we have had after 
COVID a dramatic increase in bullying and violence in our 
schools. I am the Chair of the School Safety Committee, so I 
hear the most extreme cases in my district of kids who are 
getting a safety transfer, where they want to go to another 
school because they don't feel safe.
    The no. 1 thing that we want is more school safety agents, 
and this has been cut. He said that now parents will have to 
volunteer, which we are not qualified to be school safety 
agents. We don't have the training, and many parents don't have 
the capacity.
    Chair Jordan. Should the Federal Government stop the 
practice of releasing illegal migrants into the country? Should 
we say no to illegal--no more illegal migrants allowed in the 
country? Should we do that?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I think we should follow Federal law.
    Chair Jordan. Yes.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I think we should follow Federal law.
    Chair Jordan. OK.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. What I can tell you is that my family, we 
have been through many, many process of getting a visa, have 
been a student visa, a work visa. My family just became 
refugee, and the vetting process is extensive. My husband's 85-
year-old grandparents who lost everything they had when Russia 
invaded Ukraine had to wait many months. We had to provide 
extensive documentation to be able to get the visa.
    So, I think legal immigrants like myself look at this 
process and ask why there is this double standard, why we are 
not asking any kind of documentation. There is not any kind of 
vetting process.
    Chair Jordan. Yes. You did it the right way, and you are 
feeling it personally. You did it the right way, and yet your 
kids, who need the services in the school, are being denied 
that because of folks who aren't doing it in the legal and 
appropriate way.
    How long have you been on the Community Education Council?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. It is my third year. I am on my second 
term.
    Chair Jordan. You are the vice president of that group?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes. I have been elected by the school 
parents in District 2.
    Chair Jordan. Well, I am sure they appreciate, as we do, 
your hard work on behalf of kids, and particularly at this 
troublesome time. Thank you very much.
    I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Mr. Correa.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Before I start, I would 
like to submit for the record two articles, one entitled, 
``Shut Out of DACA and Traditional Jobs: Young Immigrants Start 
Businesses to get ahead''; second, ``What Rising Immigration 
Really Means for California's Economy.''
    I can submit those for the record, sir?
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Mr. Correa. First, I want to thank all our witnesses here 
today for being here to give us your perspective. Immigration 
is the issue of America. We are all immigrants here today. I 
look around. None of you here are natural American Indians. All 
our ancestors came to this country. God knows two or three 
generations ago what the newspapers would have said. I think if 
we look into those newspapers, the rhetoric was probably the 
same.
    Mr. Camarota, you started talking a little bit about the 
cost-benefit. I would like to see more research into that, 
because California today, we are the fourth largest economy in 
the world, and we are a net donor of revenue to the Federal 
Government. That stopped temporarily during COVID.
    We have probably the most manufacturing in the United 
States, and I can tell you who works at those jobs. OK? A lot 
of our farm industry, ag [agriculture], relies on undocumented 
workers. You are not going to deport them.
    This country, as a national defense policy, we need to be 
independent and strong in two areas: (1) Energy production, no 
more OPEC oil embargoes and (2) food production. Heaven forbid 
if we have to import our food one of these days. That second 
one, food; that is agriculture.
    In 2019, I got a phone call from a lobbyist on the poultry 
industry. In 2019, there was an immigration raid in 
Mississippi, picked up 680 undocumented workers at a poultry 
plant. You know what that did to that county? Brought it to a 
standstill. This lobbyist for the poultry industry wanted my 
help to keep those workers going. So, we do need to look at 
both sides of the issue and really deal with the facts.
    Now, Ms. Souza, I heard some of your comments. I am 
probably the only Member in Congress that was in Tijuana, 
Mexico, inspecting, touring the Ukrainian refugee camps. I saw 
those refugees being processed. You know how long it would take 
them to get processed? About two or three days. You know where 
those camps are at now? They are closed. You know why they are 
closed? Because now a Ukrainian asylum seeker can apply 
directly from Europe to come to the U.S.
    One of my colleagues the other day was saying we can use 
Ukrainians as opposed to the others, but the reason he was 
saying that--and I don't think he understood what he was 
talking about--was Ukrainians can get a work permit right away. 
These other folks can't.
    So, we have to really look and drill down into the facts to 
figure out what a good immigration policy needs to be for the 
United States. It is not zero. It is not all. It is a good 
position for this country.
    Talk about farm workers. Let's talk about Silicon Valley in 
California. We still do some ass kicking over there, high tech, 
research and development, and biotech. We are the world's 
leaders. You know what those workers--you know where they are 
from, a lot of them? Indian Americans and Asian Americans. 
Silicon Valley, if you talk to that industry, they can't get 
enough workers from there. We need immigrants. What we need is 
an adjustment to our immigration policy.
    When it comes to asylum seekers, Mr. Camarota, you talked 
about the U.S. being in unprecedented territory. Twenty percent 
of our population now foreign born. Unprecedented. Used to be 
like 19. Now, it is 20 percent. A hundred years ago it was 19.
    Mr. Camarota. The peak is 14.8 in 1890.
    Mr. Correa. The numbers I saw was--well, OK, we will buy 
your numbers. Are some of those immigrants participating in our 
Nation's military?
    Mr. Camarota. Are you talking about the whole foreign born? 
There should be no illegal immigrants in the military.
    Mr. Correa. They can't be.
    Mr. Camarota. But, legal immigrants are.
    Mr. Correa. A lot of
    Green cardholders are part of our military.
    Mr. Camarota. Absolutely.
    Mr. Correa. A lot of undocumented immigrants want to join 
the military and they can't. So, the fact that you have such a 
high number doesn't mean it is bad for the U.S. I bet you if 
those undocumented could, they would join the military, and 
they would be true Americans.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am out of time, and I yield.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Mr. Tiffany.
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you. Mr. Chen, so let's talk about 
coordination with local municipalities, right? You believe in 
that, that there should be coordination that goes on when 
resettling refugees or asylum seekers, anything like that, 
correct, with a local community?
    Mr. Chen. Coordination generally will improve their 
processing, yes, for both refugees and asylum seekers.
    Mr. Tiffany. Isn't it a requirement in Federal law that you 
have to consult and coordinate with States and local 
municipalities from the Federal level? Isn't that correct?
    Mr. Chen. I am not sure about that.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, you don't know that part of the law? Is 
that it?
    Mr. Chen. I just don't know that specific question.
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes. OK. Because it is required to do that, 
and it is currently not going on by organizations like World 
Relief and others in my home State of Wisconsin, where they are 
not coordinating, they are not working with local 
municipalities, and very unfortunate.
    Mr. Chen. If I may comment, sir, my understanding is many 
of the Federal refugee organizations that work with the Federal 
Government are typically in very close coordination with all 
the State agencies that support that. It is a State, local, and 
Federal partnership with local providers, like World Relief 
that you mentioned. I would be very surprised if there wasn't 
that kind of coordination, so that is an area that perhaps we 
will work on.
    Mr. Tiffany. You are about to be surprised, because maybe 
they are talking to the State, but the Federal and State is not 
talking to local municipalities. In fact, they excluded 
Chippewa County from those discussions in bringing refugees to 
Western Wisconsin.
    You said remove those who are not eligible in a safe and 
humane manner. That is part of your--just a small segment of 
some of your testimony. Remove those who are not eligible in a 
safe and humane manner. Can you give me an example of somebody 
you believe should be removed?
    Mr. Chen. So, we have a very thorough immigration law 
process that begins with asylum seekers. For example, if they 
are going to seek relief--
    Mr. Tiffany. Give me a specific example of somebody that 
you think should be removed.
    Mr. Chen. If there is a full--
    Mr. Tiffany. I am going to move on to the next question. 
Should everyone get an attorney? That is what I heard in your 
testimony. Anyone that comes to our border, they should get an 
attorney. Is that right?
    Mr. Chen. So, legal representation has been shown to 
greatly improve both the fairness of the system and the 
efficiency. If you have a lawyer--
    Mr. Tiffany. So, the American taxpayer should pay for the 
lawyers also. Not only should they pay for the hospitals, not 
only should they pay for the schools, not only should they pay 
the SNAP benefits, but they should also pay for the lawyers to 
allow them, as people from outside the United States, to be 
able to come into America.
    Mr. Chen. It makes the system work much more efficiently if 
a judge doesn't have to explain to an individual that is 
appearing in front of the judge what the legal process is. It 
will make the entire process--
    Mr. Tiffany. Thank you.
    Mr. Chen. --more efficient, and that is what we are about 
here is making sure the system is more efficient, fair, and 
orderly. That will help improve the processing at the border.
    Mr. Tiffany. Is it ever fair at--
    Mr. Chen. That is what we are all about.
    Mr. Tiffany. Is it ever fair at this point?
    Ms. Egorov, you were cutoff by the Ranking Member when you 
were going to complete your answer on the vetting of 
Ukrainians. Is there anything you wanted to add in regard to 
that, to give context to what you were about to say?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. So, my husband's grandparents were 85 
years old, and they lived in Kharkov, Ukraine. They only left 
their house when it became unlivable for them. So, they only 
left their house and tried to come to America when there was a 
bomb dropped in the courtyard. It killed eight of their 
neighbors, and it blew out the windows of their apartment in 
the middle of the Ukrainian winter. So, they were literally 
freezing to death.
    They would have never been able to cross the border. So, I 
really think that the process of accepting refugees should 
accept the most vulnerable refugees who are vast majority women 
and children.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, there should be some context in regard to 
this vetting.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes. They made their way to the border 
with Poland, and they waited there for a very long time. Our 
grandmother did not have a passport because she had never left 
Ukraine in her life, and so she had to provide documentation to 
prove that she was from Ukraine. Then we had to provide 
documentation that we would support them here.
    So, there was a long process. I think it was about three or 
four months at least.
    Mr. Tiffany. I really want to get to another question for 
you here. You cited public health concerns. Are there many 
parents that you are working with that are really concerned 
about public health issues? We are hearing about diseases that 
are coming from outside of America to places like New York 
City. Are you hearing those concerns?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. There was one specific outbreak of 
varicella in my district last year. So, the city health 
commissioner sent a letter to all health officials in New York 
City saying that the vaccination rates in the countries that 
are sending immigrants here is much lower than in the U.S. So, 
there is this concern.
    I think biggest problem is the double standard. My 
community were just blocked from entering school buildings for 
two years if you didn't have the COVID vaccine. Students 
couldn't play sports, even outside, if they didn't have the 
COVID vaccine. Like parents who couldn't take the COVID vaccine 
for health reasons, not even ideological, health reasons, 
couldn't see their children's graduation.
    Then now, suddenly, anybody who arrives can get in without 
any vaccine, with vaccines that we have decades of data. I 
think that is a problem of trust now in terms of the double 
standard. We just went through so many rules.
    I am sorry.
    Mr. Tiffany. No, no. Thank you very much.
    I yield back. The double standard, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you for a unanimous consent request.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Jayapal.
    Ms. Jayapal. I ask unanimous consent to enter into the 
record the following reports showing the economic benefits of 
immigration: A report by Giovanni Perry, ``The Economic 
Benefits of Immigration''; a report by the National Bureau of 
Economic Research, ``The Economic Contribution of Unauthorized 
Workers and Industry Analysis''; a report by the Institute on 
Taxation and Economic Policy, ``Undocumented Immigrants' State 
and Local Contributions''; three reports by New American 
Economy, ``Examining the Economic Contributions of Undocumented 
Immigrants by Country of Origin,'' ``Keeping Medicare Solvent: 
How Immigrants Subsidize Medicare's Trust Fund for All U.S. 
Seniors,'' and a third one, ``Immigrants Contribute More in 
Insurance Premiums than they Receive in Benefits''; a report by 
the George W. Bush Institute, ``Benefits of Immigration 
Outweigh the Costs''; a report by the Bipartisan Policy Center, 
``Immigrants and Public Benefits: What Does the Research 
Say?''; a report by Forward U.S., ``The Positive Economic 
Impact of Immigration''; a report by the University of 
Pennsylvania, Wharton Business School, ``The Effects of 
Immigration on the U.S. Economy''; and a report by the Center 
on Budget and Policy Priorities, ``Immigrants Contribute 
Greatly to the U.S. Economy Despite the Trump Administration's 
Public Charge Rule Rationale.''
    Mr. McClintock. Just for clarification, are those reports 
on immigrants, not illegal immigrants?
    Ms. Jayapal. These are reports on immigrants and the 
economic benefits of immigration--
    Mr. McClintock. Do they--
    Ms. Jayapal. --which include documented and undocumented 
immigrants.
    Mr. McClintock. Right. Which is what the Democrats love to 
do is to--
    Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, are we having a colloquy? Because I 
am happy to engage in it.
    Mr. McClintock. No. I just want to--
    Ms. Jayapal. I just--
    Mr. McClintock. No.
    Ms. Jayapal. I had a unanimous consent request.
    Mr. McClintock. I just want to clarify in--
    Ms. Jayapal. I want to clarify that undocumented--
    Mr. McClintock. I appreciate that.
    Ms. Jayapal. --immigrants and documented immigrants 
contribute to the U.S. economy.
    Mr. McClintock. I want to--
    Ms. Jayapal. Any indications that they do not is excluding 
the contributions of undocumented immigrants as well as 
documented immigrants.
    Mr. McClintock. I just wanted to be clear that you are 
confusing the two. Thank you. Is there is there any objection?
    Ms. Jayapal. I am not confusing the two.
    Mr. Chair, I am including both, because both contribute.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, we will get to that in a moment. Is 
there any objection? Seeing none, the unanimous consent request 
is approved.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Escobar.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it is really 
important for all of us to take a step back and recognize what 
is really happening here. This is another example of the 
Republican majority's efforts to continue to demonize 
immigrants. That is what this hearing is about.
    The hearings that we have been having on this Subcommittee 
haven't been focused on leading us to a solution or finding 
bipartisan compromise. Unfortunately, the hearings that this 
Subcommittee has been having have focused on trying to paint 
the picture for the American people that immigrants should be 
feared, immigrants should be hated, immigrants are bad, when we 
know that the contrary is true.
    I think it is really important for us to acknowledge some 
truths if we are going to find a solution, because we 
absolutely do need a solution to this very significant domestic 
challenge.
    Immigrants make our country better. One of our--Ms. Egorov, 
you are an example of immigrants improving our country, adding 
to this country. Our Ranking Member is another perfect example 
of that. The examples are all around us. They help our economy. 
They are part of the fabric of our Nation and of our 
communities, and they represent a net positive to who we are as 
Americans.
    Another truth is that the status quo is absolutely 
unacceptable, and it should be unacceptable to all of us, 
whether we are Republicans or whether we are Democrats. I 
represent El Paso, Texas. My border community has seen some of 
the highest encounters with asylum seekers, with refugees, with 
people fleeing their homeland trying to get to safety and 
security in ours.
    I am a third generation El Pasoan. I am the only Member of 
this Subcommittee and this Committee who was born and raised on 
the border, raised her children on the border, am so proud to 
be a border resident. I will tell you my community has seen 
some significant challenges as a result of the really 
significant number of people who are fleeing their homeland.
    I think it is important for us to recognize it is not just 
a U.S. issue. We are seeing more people leaving their country 
across the globe than probably ever before. Certainly, in the 
Western hemisphere this is historic, at least in my 
recollection and for my generation.
    The response to such a significant challenge shouldn't be 
to demonize immigrants, but it also shouldn't be to refuse to 
compromise. We have to compromise and come together if we are 
going to find the solution.
    We should recognize the opportunity in this moment. We have 
eight million unfilled jobs in the country--Eight million. We 
are not achieving all we could achieve as a country without 
immigrants, and we can't do it.
    Now, my Republican colleagues will point to H.R. 2, their 
border bill, as the solution. Guess what? Their border bill is 
a fantasy, and any of them who have taken the time to read it 
would recognize it. Any reporter who has taken the time to read 
it would recognize it.
    The fundamental component of H.R. 2, the Republican 
solution, is that Mexico will accept all migrants that we expel 
from our country. That has never happened. It will never 
happen. So, while they continue to say, ``Oh, we have got our 
solution, H.R. 2,'' it is a farce. It is a fig leaf to hide the 
fact that they bring no real solutions to the table on their 
own.
    I would like to share with all my colleagues on this dais 
that there is a solution. It is called the Dignity Act. It is 
the first bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform bill that 
addresses the border and beyond. It lives up to our values 
without the egregious cruelty championed by many on the other 
side of the aisle.
    It provides legal protections for immigrants that are here, 
and it addresses the biggest challenge we have at the border, 
which is unfair to migrants. The current--the status quo is 
unfair to migrants, unfair to Federal law enforcement, unfair 
to border communities, unfair to receiving communities.
    It is time that Congress does its job and engages in 
bipartisan compromise and finds a real fix, and I would 
encourage everyone to look at the Dignity Act.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Spartz.
    Ms. Spartz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am not sure, but I 
might be actually the only Member of Congress who actually 
emigrated as an adult, not with parents as a baby, as a child, 
and brought by the family, but actually as an adult at the age 
of 21 made the decision to legally emigrate to the United 
States from Ukraine.
    So, I understand the contribution of what immigrants have 
done to this country. We are a country of immigrants, but 
country of legal immigration and laws.
    What I want to talk to you a little bit, you mentioned 
about your husband's parents coming from Ukraine. Do you 
believe it is happening right now, since we have illegal 
immigration overwhelming our system, somebody with legitimate 
concerns?
    I hear from a lot, including Ukrainians, that come in 
through the program that they encounter a lot of challenges 
with that, because there is no capacity for legal immigration, 
and a lot of times it is becoming perverse. If you come here 
legally--as you mentioned, my husband had to sign off on a lot 
of papers that I am not going to be burdening society. I never 
took any benefits. I came for opportunities and hard work, not 
for welfare.
    Now, we are creating a system where a lot of people come 
illegal, and get benefits much better than if you come here 
legally. You really kind of disincentivize going through the 
legal system.
    So, do you believe, Ms. Egorov, that what is happening 
right now, it actually hurts legitimate asylum seekers, 
legitimate people avoiding persecution and have refugees, or 
try to come here to contribute to society? What are your 
thoughts on that?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I think absolutely. The problem is that 
the vast majority of refugees that have been vetted by the 
United Nations are women and children from just three 
countries, right? Ukraine, Syria, and Afghanistan. This is not 
the same population that we are seeing coming through the 
Southern border.
    So, we are not accepting the most vulnerable refugees. 
Based on public data that I found in New York City, 80 percent 
of the new migrants in New York City are single adults. If 50 
percent of the refugees are women and children, there is a 
disconnect. We are not--the most vulnerable cannot even make 
the cross in the Southern border, because it is very dangerous. 
So, the most vulnerable will never be able to cross the border.
    Ms. Spartz. There is the challenge, and I actually just 
went to the border, and it was mostly adult males who were 
going there.
    Mr. Chen, you talk about processing at the border. Would 
you agree that we should have immediately determined, 
regardless how we believe in asylum standard, determination 
right at the border, and denying entry the people that are 
illegitimately applying for asylum? Do you support adjudication 
and denying entry immediately at the border?
    Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question. I don't think that 
would be practically possible, to make a determination for 
asylum so quickly. Asylum is a very--
    Ms. Spartz. So, why do you want all these judges, then? If 
they cannot adjudicate immediately, why do they want them just 
to provide more papers and wait more years? Why do you even--if 
you cannot do that, what is the point of your wanting to have 
more judges, if you cannot have immediate adjudication?
    Mr. Chen. So, there aren't judges typically sitting at the 
border region to be able to--
    Ms. Spartz. You say we need to have more. So, what would 
they be doing there, just giving more papers? What would they 
be doing if they were not adjudicating and immediately deciding 
if entry would be allowed? What are they for then?
    Mr. Chen. So, I think we completely agree here about the 
importance of having an efficient and orderly process that 
quickly can screen people like asylum seekers for eligibility. 
The question is just, how do you do that operationally to make 
it effective?
    Ms. Spartz. You would not disagree that we should have 
immediately adjudication and making decision at the border, 
regardless how we feel about the standard, because HR-2 
increases standard, and it is actually a reasonable standard. 
More likely than not, it is still 50/50 standard, so it is 
pretty still high standard, considering how many people are 
abusing the system, and legitimate asylum seekers actually 
get--that truly can be prosecuted and killed by their 
government have a hard time now because there is no 
prioritization.
    So, you think that should be happening at the border and we 
should deny entry?
    Mr. Chen. So, what I don't think would work is--I think you 
used the word ``immediately'' a couple of times. It takes time 
for an asylum seeker to understand and explain his or her case 
to an asylum officer.
    Ms. Spartz. It is OK maybe in real time, but they would not 
be allowed entry into the United States, right? So, they can 
stay in the detention facilities, but ultimately, they would 
not be given notice to appear and go in the country. Is that 
correct? You agree with that?
    Mr. Chen. I am not--that is the process right now is that 
somebody who is seeking--
    Ms. Spartz. No, now they are leaving, because they don't 
have ability, we are so overwhelmed. You said like cartels, if 
we have it, would actually be preying on people, but aren't 
they preying on people right now? I mean, have you been at the 
border and seen what is happening?
    The situation now, you believe they are not preyed on by 
cartels? It is huge. Women and children, and we have people 
pretty much being abused.
    Mr. Chen. I have been to the border, and people who are 
seeking asylum, people who are here waiting at the border, I 
was just at the Nogales port this fall, people are waiting for 
weeks, sleeping at those turnstiles, to be able to gain entry 
because there aren't enough capacity by--
    Ms. Spartz. Because cartels are abusing the system.
    Mr. Chen. --to be able to do that.
    Ms. Spartz. I yield back. My time has expired. Using them 
as pawns. I yield back.
    Mr. Chen. If I could just expand my answer?
    Mr. McClintock. At the request of the minority, Ms. Ross is 
next.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and to the 
Ranking Member. I request unanimous consent to submit for the 
record the New York Times article, ``GOP Governors Vow to Close 
Doors to Syrian Refugees.''
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much. I want to pick up a little 
bit on the conversation that my colleague, Representative 
Escobar, had about how we need to do both deal with the border 
and deal with legal immigration.
    I represent North Carolina's 2nd Congressional District in 
the research triangle. I want you to know I rarely hear about 
the border from my constituents, but I know because of my role 
in Congress and on this Subcommittee how important it is to 
deal with the border.
    I do want you to know that I hear from employers in my 
district every day about the need to fix our broken immigration 
system and allow more people to come here and work, either 
while they are waiting for their immigration status to be taken 
care of, or under a legal immigration process which has a 
decades-long backlog.
    I heard this from our Chamber of Commerce. I heard this 
from the Farm Bureau. The no. 1 issue for the Farm Bureau and 
agriculture is the no. 1 industry in North Carolina. I hear 
this from the hotel and lodging association, and I hear this 
from the medical community. I want to bring up, because we are 
talking about social services, some facts about our workers in 
the healthcare industry.
    According to a 2021 report from the Center for American 
Progress, approximately 365,000 undocumented immigrants worked 
in healthcare during the COVID-19 pandemic. In addition to 
providing needed care, they cleaned hospital rooms, served 
meals, managed front desks, and more. These are not the highly 
skilled immigrants that the tech industry is looking for.
    Rather than draining our social services, these individuals 
played, and continue to play, essential roles in our healthcare 
services. They did so at a time when healthcare and other 
social service sectors are struggling with worker shortages. Of 
course, this is in addition to the taxes they pay into the 
system for the most part they cannot access, particularly 
through Social Security.
    Imagine the tremendous impact these workers could have on 
our social services if our country expanded opportunities for 
these individuals to obtain legal status and harness their full 
potential and talents. Right now, we have low unemployment and 
massive demand for workers that U.S. citizens alone cannot 
meet, yet we put up roadblocks in front of immigrants to work 
here.
    Our legal immigration system has not been updated for over 
30 years. That means our legal immigration levels are still 
where they were when we--few people could even use the 
internet.
    I would like to address a couple questions to Mr. Chen at 
my last minute. Are our current temporary worker programs 
adequate to meet this demand?
    Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question. I would say our 
temporary worker permit programs--sorry, employment 
authorization programs for workers and for permanent are not 
adequate, and we have demand far exceeding the need for H-1B, 
H-2A, agriculture programs, across the board.
    Ms. Ross. Can you discuss how the creation of additional 
legal pathways can impact the numbers we are seeing at the 
border?
    Mr. Chen. So, expanding legal pathways would do 
tremendously, in terms of improving both the pressures at the 
border to alleviate, that as the parole program has done, but 
also to address the kinds of important employment and business 
issues that you have just been describing that are impacting 
the country.
    The fact is that both Republican and Democratic leaders 
across the country, and businesses--the U.S. Chamber of 
Commerce--are asking for more legal pathways to enable people 
to come here. We have had a lot of talk about people not coming 
or coming in the right way. The problem is we don't have 
adequate right ways for people to come exactly to meet the 
kinds of needs you are talking about here, Congresswoman, to 
meet the needs of the country, both for families and 
businesses, that would make America stronger.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, and I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Mr. Nehls.
    Mr. Nehls. Mr. Chair, thank you.
    The Ranking Member of the Full Committee, Mr. Nadler, who 
was here earlier, in his testimony he stated that Governor 
Abbott has sent--from Texas has sent 80,000 of these illegal 
immigrants to New York on buses. I personally think that is a 
beautiful thing. I think it should be 180,000. As a matter of 
fact, I am willing to help pay for some of the buses to send 
more and more to these welcoming cities, these sanctuary 
cities.
    Mayor Adams now says he is overwhelmed. He is overwhelmed. 
Other cities, Chicago, we are overwhelmed. Heck, we sent not 
even 100 or so to Martha's Vineyard, we have got to call the 
police. We have got a crisis.
    Texas, the counties in Texas, those municipalities along 
the Southern border, have been overwhelmed for the past three 
years, and you heard nothing from the Democrats. Nothing. It is 
all OK. It is not my problem. I am out here on the cushy East 
coast. So, they start bussing them up there. It was a beautiful 
thing.
    Now, the American people are paying attention. They are 
paying attention to the Biden border crisis. The Democrats 
didn't care. They didn't care about the border crisis for the 
last three years of this Administration, and now they care. 
Really, folks? Really? Do you think the Democrats truly care?
    I find the timing of it interesting. We are 10 months away 
from a general election. Joe's approval rating is in the 
toilet. It is 33 percent. You can get online and look at all 
these residents of all these large cities, New York, Chicago, 
they are a little grumpy. They are a little grumpy. They are 
saying, ``Mayor, what the hell is happening to our city here?'' 
They are paying attention. They are expressing their outrage, 
and now the Democrats want to secure the Southern border.
    My advice is really plain and simple. My advice to the 
Democrats: Call Joe. Call Joe. Use the Executive Orders today 
to secure our Southern border, because if you don't, Joe, the 
American people will act and Donald Trump will fix it again.
    Joe Biden does not need Congress. He doesn't need Congress 
to do anything to address this crisis. Trump didn't have the 
support from Congress to address the border. He did it through 
21 Executive Orders and 25 Presidential Memoranda. His policies 
kept the American people safe.
    Now, the dishonest media out there, they are everywhere, 
the greatest threat to our country, the dishonest media. They 
won't hold the Biden Administration accountable. They will 
deflect. They will say it is Congress--it is Congress that 
hasn't done anything to secure the Southern border.
    Congress, as a whole, has done nothing to address the 
Southern border. Joe Biden did it all by himself through 
Executive Order. He took all of Trump's policies and just 
reversed them all when it was the safest country in decades. We 
had more border security under Donald Trump than we had in 
decades.
    So, no, folks, let's be honest with each other. Nothing is 
going to get done. The Democrats don't want to have anything to 
do with H.R. 2. They have already said it. Joe doesn't want to 
fix the crisis at our Southern border, because it is all by 
design. Joe puts America last. He puts the American people 
last.
    I have about another minute and a half. Mr. Camarota, are 
you familiar with the public charge rule, my friend?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes.
    Mr. Nehls. Explain it. Explain that for the sixth grader, 
yes.
    Mr. Camarota. Well, very briefly, it is the idea that we 
try to evaluate new legal immigrants, so that they are not 
going to end up on public benefits. If it looks like you are, 
it is possible in that process they will deny you a green card, 
which is permanent residency.
    Mr. Nehls. Trump is just looking out for America, like he 
always has. He defined ``public charge'' as an immigrant who 
receives one or more designated public benefits for more than 
12 months within a 36-month period, rightfully included SNAP 
benefits, housing vouchers, Medicaid as benefits that would 
disqualify an immigrant from receiving a green card. To me, it 
is a no brainer. If you need two of these, you should be 
considered a public charge.
    Is it true in September 2022 that the Biden Administration 
published a new public charge inadmissibly regulations that 
reversed Trump's public charge regulations?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes. They disbanded an expansive idea and 
just made it a couple of programs.
    Mr. Nehls. Do you think it incentivizes more people to come 
to the United States? Hey, I am from Guatemala. I am going to 
come. I am going to get my food, housing, healthcare, 
everything. I am going to come, and I am going to come now. I 
have been invited by this President.
    Mr. Camarota. It could. We estimate that 52 percent of 
legal immigrant households access one or more welfare programs. 
So, those rates are high.
    Mr. Nehls. We are $34 trillion in debt.
    I yield back.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Jackson Lee.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much. The last time I 
recall studying civics or walking through these halls I reflect 
on the fact that we are the United States of America. What 
happens to one State or one community can happen to another. 
So, I am not proud of the idea of migrants, babies, families 
who are fleeing true persecution, to be distributed across the 
Nation without regard for their humanity. I am a problem 
solver, which is what this Committee should be doing.
    So, I want to pose my question to Chief Mello to be able to 
say, first, I am years-long Member of the Congressional Fire 
Caucus. I am a great champion of firefighters. I served on the 
Homeland Security Committee, served, and fought mightily for 
the benefits for firefighters and their families after 9/11. We 
finally got some relief.
    I know that during the American Rescue Plan during COVID 
funding came to local communities; did it not?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Those were Federal dollars.
    Mr. Mello. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Were those dollars welcomed?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Some of them I hope got to you 
firefighters and EMS who never stopped during that crisis. Did 
some of them come your way, sir, or in your community?
    Mr. Mello. Some of that money came into my community, yes, 
ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you so very much. So, I am committed 
to getting you dollars. We have had a plan that the President 
has put forward of $13.6 billion. That is your money, part of 
it, Federal dollars that would come directly to Eagle Pass and 
the Chief, who I could tell the emotion in your voice as you 
had to deal with a little three-month-old that didn't make it. 
Is that what you said, a three-month-old didn't make it?
    Mr. Mello. The three-month-old and the three-year-old, they 
were both brothers. They didn't make it.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. They didn't make it.
    Mr. Mello. No, ma'am.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I can imagine your men and women dealing 
with that.
    So, let me just share with you and let you know quickly 
that $13.6 billion, which has been held up by Republicans, 
would be Border Patrol agents, cutting edge inspection 
machines, 1,000 law enforcement personnel, investigative 
capacity, 1,600 additional asylum officers, 375 new immigration 
judges, additional grants to local governments and nonprofits. 
Sir, that is you directly.
    Critical border management activities, expansion of lawful 
pathways, not for everyone, but I do think you see some 
individuals--and you are not an immigration chief, but you 
might answer this--that may have a reason for asylum. Just in 
your own course, have you seen those kinds of people?
    Mr. Mello. In my personal opinion, I have seen, yes, I have 
seen some families that would benefit the United States, but I 
have seen several that are individuals that would not benefit 
the U.S.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. We need to make sure that those 
individuals do not come here to do harm. I understand that, and 
that is what this would do. Support for eligible arrivals, 
funding to conduct robust child labor investigations, and 
reimbursement to the Department of Defense for its support. On 
here is 1,000 law enforcement investigators, so that we don't 
have the bad guys here.
    None of this has been moved, because my friends on the 
other side fail to realize that we are the United States of 
America. As you are Chief in Eagle Pass, there are Fire Chiefs 
in New York, there are Fire Chiefs in other cities who want to 
do the right thing.
    So, I just have a short period of time. If we could get 
this 13.6 billion passed and get that money coming to you that 
you could use effectively, how helpful would that be to you?
    Mr. Mello. That would be very helpful. Very, very helpful.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Do you need that money now?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, I do.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chen, would you please--you heard me 
list some of the elements, you know what those dollars would be 
going for. Explain how this money would be very effective in 
easing that border crisis and reflecting that we are the United 
States of America, and that the migration and immigration, 
migrants and immigrants, collectively, have been contributors 
to the Nation's economy, but to the Nation's goodness.
    Can you tell me how some of these elements I have read 
about would be effective in the work of helping ease this 
crisis?
    Mr. Chen. Thank you for the question, Congresswoman. I will 
start with the program that I think you referenced a moment 
ago, the Shelter and Services Program run by FEMA. I was 
actually talking with the Chief here just before the hearing 
started about how the money--it is about 360 million that has 
already been given out in Fiscal Year 2023 to cities and 
localities across the country.
    More is needed. That funding should come to ensure that 
temporary services, temporary assistance, transportation, 
emergency medical screenings, those kinds of needs are met. 
That would help greatly small towns like Eagle Pass or cities 
in the interior in welcoming immigrants that are coming into 
the country.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has 
expired. Mr. Moore.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you for the witnesses being here today.
    Our social services programs have been negatively affected 
by the rise of migrants. Taxpayers have footed the bill for 
illegal immigrants by shelling out over $150 billion of their 
hard-earned money. I saw firsthand at the border hospitals are 
overflowed, American citizens have traveled hours--or for hours 
to get their medical needs met, because the local hospitals 
could not take them.
    Whether it be your doctors' appointments, your kids' 
teachers being stretched thin, you can bet that they have been 
negatively impacted by illegal immigration.
    One of the things I find interesting--and as we were 
traveling in Yuma, Arizona, is the hospitals, the young people, 
the young ladies would come right across the border and have a 
baby. Then, by Federal law the hospitals had to provide the car 
seats before they could send them on their way. So, we are not 
doing anything to secure the U.S. Southern border.
    Chief, I know you would like to have the additional money, 
but wouldn't you rather us do some things to kind of slow the 
flow from other countries? I mean, we had 106 different Nations 
come through Yuma, Arizona, according to Sheriff Dannels. 
Wouldn't you rather us do something besides send money? It is 
like setting a house on fire and then funding the fire 
department. I don't quite understand the benefit of extra money 
while we are setting a place on fire.
    So, Chief, would you rather us just secure the border and 
stop this flow of immigrants from all over the globe? There was 
302,000 last month that came here. Wouldn't that be better than 
just sending a little money?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Moore. I think not only just for you, sir, but the 
people that are dying--150 a day that are dying of fentanyl 
poisoning, I think it would be better for those families as 
well, or the displaced American citizens that were now taken 
out of school systems. There are a lot of things we can do 
instead of just funding the failure of this Department of 
Homeland Security and this Executive Branch that we have got 
that have created this issue.
    Sheriff Dannels said in here in testimony in 2018, or he 
said he had been there 40 years on the border, never had he 
seen it as good as it was in 2018, and never as bad as it is 
right now, and that was before last month.
    So, there are a lot of things--it is always government, we 
want to throw more money at the problem. We created the 
problem, we set the building on fire, and then we funded the 
fire department. That is kind of the way I see this.
    So, anyway, is it Ms. Egorov? Is that how you say it? With 
the new strain or influx of illegal immigrants, can you explain 
kind of what this is doing to your schools? I mean, we have had 
these--I understand there are 57 different dialects in Spanish 
that are just South of the U.S. Southern border down through 
South America. Are we seeing where we just really cannot 
communicate with these kids? Can you talk about the strain that 
it is putting on your school system?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I think the biggest problem is there is 
already a shortage of ESL teachers, so teachers who can teach 
children who don't speak English. Even if we had more financial 
resources, there is just so many teachers who are qualified to 
teach these children.
    Also, as I mentioned, I think the paraprofessionals 
shortages already existed as well. So, the children who are 
coming, who are crossing the border, are going through some 
horrible experiences. They are arriving with very severe needs. 
Our schools are not necessarily designed to deal with such 
impacts on their mental health and physical health.
    Mr. Moore. Ms. Egorov, when you say, ``severe needs,'' can 
you elaborate a little bit? Is it--because I understand we have 
over 86,000 unaccompanied minors that we have lost. The Federal 
Government has brought here, and we have shipped them all over 
this United States, and we are hearing about these kids working 
now in these sweatshops, or whatever you want to call them, but 
also, we are not even background checking. We had one sponsor 
that got 20 children, and we didn't do a background check. So, 
we don't know where we sent these 20 children to this one 
individual.
    So, could you talk about--I don't have a whole lot of time, 
but just when you say some pretty extreme situations or--can 
you elaborate a little bit on what we are looking at?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. I can give you anecdotal data about my 
district. I believe just last month there was a 10-year-old in 
a shelter who committed suicide. We don't know what that boy 
went through crossing the border, right?
    I think that the Federal Government has provided this data. 
In my testimony, I refer to the 2019 report that specifically 
says how children are being raped, are being child trafficked, 
there is sexual violence, and sexual trafficking. Literally 
there are--if you look on the internet, there are pictures of 
children who have been medicated, who are not even conscious 
being used to cross the border.
    There are many cases--that report of the Homeland Security 
as well--of children who are being used. They literally come, 
help an adult get into the U.S., and they are sent back to help 
another cross the--
    Mr. Moore. Yes. They are just--they are like on a 
treadmill. They come over. They--
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes.
    Mr. Moore. --identify as the student or the child of this 
individual adult. Then, they grab the child, once the adult is 
here, send them back across the border.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes.
    Mr. Moore. They are basically just--they are just on a 
little treadmill.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. It is child trafficking, and we have 
known that for many years, because there is a report from the 
Department of Homeland Security.
    Mr. Moore. Sure. My time is up. Thank you.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. Mr. Hunt.
    Mr. Hunt. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Today we are here to talk 
about the drain of illegal immigration and Biden's open border 
policies and how they are affecting the American taxpayer.
    Recently, airline safety has also become an issue of 
paramount concern. People are concerned of whether or not doors 
are going to fly off planes and panels, but I am going to tell 
you about the issue that starts with safety long before anybody 
in this room would actually board a plane.
    Biden's open border policies are overburdening the TSA and 
making it more difficult for the TSA agents to do their jobs 
effectively. The TSA was created after 9/11 to oversee security 
and all modes of transportation, including aviation safety.
    As an American, you know we have to go through security 
screening and board a plane just like everybody else. What you 
also may know is that the TSA has an entirely different 
standard for illegal immigrants. That is right. There is a 
different set of rules for you, the American public, and 
illegal immigrants.
    You have all seen the TSA check line, of course. Well, I 
have news for you. Biden's DHS has created another line, and 
here is the picture to prove it. This is a line in the Tucson 
airport specially made for noncitizens. As you can see, the 
sign says, ``Non-U.S. Citizens Without Passports Enter Here.''
    Without passports, that is the tip of the iceberg. These 
illegal immigrants may go unvetted with no verifiable photo ID 
at all, and I guess Biden and Mayorkas want us all to trust 
that these people are going to say who they are based on just 
their honesty and their word alone.
    You know what a valid form of ID is for an illegal alien 
according to TSA today? An arrest warrant. I am not making that 
up. You can get on a plane with an arrest warrant. If an arrest 
warrant can get an illegal alien on a domestic flight, then why 
can't it get them a one-way ticket to jail where they belong?
    This is not only an assault on American citizens, but a 
great threat to our national security.
    I am a Member of Congress. I have TSA pre-check and Clear. 
When I get screened by TSA, I have to prove that I am who I say 
I am with an official government ID. For the record, my name is 
Wesley P. Hunt, as in Parish Hunt. If my airline ticket says 
Wesley J. Hunt, this United States Congressman ain't getting on 
the plane.
    The TSA is tasked with airline security, but they are 
letting illegal immigrants on our planes with unverifiable 
identities.
    We also know that in the last two years, over 200 people on 
the terrorist watch list have been caught at the border that we 
know of. For the record, I am a post-9/11 veteran. I deployed 
to Iraq. I am a West Point grad. I fought for this country to 
keep those people out of our country to keep it safer, and now 
we are failing the American public.
    I am a Texan, born and raised in Houston, Texas. Greg 
Abbott, the Governor of Texas, has taken steps to stop the flow 
of illegal immigration. By the way, that is not his job. That 
is the Federal Government's job. Governor Abbott put buoys in 
the Rio Grande, set up fences and barbed wire, just to name a 
few protocols. How did Biden reward Governor Abbott for his 
efforts? He sued the State of Texas. The Federal Government 
sued the State for doing the job the Federal Government should 
be doing by keeping you safe.
    This illegal invasion is the destruction of Federal 
immigration law and the elimination of any sort of protocol at 
our Southern border that is not the result of negligence, 
malfeasance, or incompetence. This is in fact the goal. Biden 
is allowing this--he is not only allowing this catastrophe; he 
is facilitating it.
    The goal of the Biden Administration is to flood this 
country with tens of millions of illegal immigrants, fly them 
to a town near you, and if you question it, they will call you 
a racist. They are sad.
    The root cause of immigration begins and ends at 1600 
Pennsylvania. If you want another 9/11 in this country, keep 
the border wide open. I suggest that we don't.
    I yield back the rest of my time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair?
    Mr. McClintock. For what purpose does the gentlelady rise?
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I ask for submission--for the ability to 
submit into the record the following items and ask unanimous 
consent. ``White House Calls on Congress to Advance Critical 
National Security Priorities,'' which provides for us the 
detailing of the Federal immigration funding that is required 
to help the Chief from Eagle Pass. I ask unanimous consent.
    I ask unanimous consent to add to the record the following 
statements of the Asian Pacific Institute on Gender-Based 
Violence, Center for Law and Social Policy, Church World 
Service, National Immigration Forum, National Immigration Law 
Center, United U.S., United We Dream, Women's Refugee 
Commission, and the work of the National Association of 
Christian Churches, Pastor Ortega. They are the ones that stand 
ready to open centers, feeding, housing, clothing of those 
innocent and noncriminal individuals who have come here because 
they are fleeing persecution.
    I ask unanimous consent that all these documents be able to 
be submitted into the record.
    Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. McClintock. Ms. Souza Egorov, you have heard the 
Democrats for the last two hours do what they have been doing 
for years. They love to conflate legal immigrants, like your 
family, who have obeyed all our laws, who have waited patiently 
in line, who have done everything our country has asked of 
them, with illegal immigrants, whose very first act in this 
country is to break our laws.
    The legal immigrants I know find this infuriating. They 
find it patronizing. They find it insulting. What are your 
thoughts?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. My husband and I are incredibly grateful 
for the opportunity to live in America and to raise our family.
    Mr. McClintock. How do you feel when you hear your family's 
law-abiding behavior compared with that of illegal immigrants?
    Ms. Souza Egorov. What I want is to make sure that my kids 
have the same opportunities that we had here, to work and to 
study. We need to have some kind of process to prioritize who 
is coming to our country. I think it should be--
    Mr. McClintock. Observe--
    Ms. Souza Egorov. --and contribute--legal process, yes.
    Mr. McClintock. Yes. Observe the rule of law as your family 
did.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. Yes. Absolutely.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. With some vetting process--
    Mr. McClintock. I have got to move on.
    Ms. Souza Egorov. There is no vetting now.
    Mr. McClintock. Dr. Camarota, your studies entirely are on 
illegal immigrants, and what you have done is to take the--with 
extensive studies, the cost of the services demanded by those 
illegal immigrants compared to the taxes that they pay. Am I 
correct on this?
    Mr. Camarota. Yes. We have an estimate for that, yes.
    Mr. McClintock. That estimate is $68,000 net cost to U.S. 
taxpayers per illegal immigrant. Is that correct?
    Mr. Camarota. That is the lifetime net fiscal drain, yes.
    Mr. McClintock. Right. Now, we have had five million 
illegal immigrants enter this country and be released into it, 
3.3 million deliberate released, another 1.7 million gotaways. 
That is five million total.
    Now, according to my figures, that is a staggering $340 
billion a year of net costs to the American people.
    Mr. Camarota. Yes. Just to be clear, that is a lifetime 
cost.
    Mr. McClintock. Right, right.
    Mr. Camarota. That would assume that the educational 
attainment--that is the key thing. Legal immigrants are much 
more educated than illegal immigrants.
    Mr. McClintock. Of course.
    Mr. Camarota. That is what drives the cost estimate, not 
illegality or anything like that.
    Mr. McClintock. Exactly.
    Mr. Camarota. It is the same reason, just to give you an 
example, why cities and states worry so much about losing their 
middle-class tax base.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, let's just finish the math here. 
Gallup, two years ago, estimated from their surveys there are 
42 million people living in poverty in Latin America and the 
Caribbean who intend to come here now that they can. That comes 
to more than $2.8 trillion of costs to U.S. taxpayers, and that 
is just for immigration from Latin America and from the 
Caribbean. These are staggering numbers, and I thank you for 
your studies on this.
    Chief Mello, when we went to Eagle Pass last week, we were 
told that 1,700 migrants had perished just on American soil 
during this Administration, since it took office. No one knows 
how many have perished South of the border. What have you 
encountered? What can you describe that it means to perish in 
the Texas desert?
    Mr. Mello. Can you repeat that question, sir?
    Mr. McClintock. What have you encountered in terms of 
people perishing of--migrants perishing on American soil?
    Mr. Mello. I have encountered several out in the field. 
What we call the field is out in the ranches, out in the 
ranches in the summertime. All along the year we saw 43 
drownings in the Rio Grande. That is not counting on the 
Mexican side, just Eagle Pass picking up migrants.
    Mr. McClintock. Do you think that many of these people 
would have made this dangerous trek if they knew they would be 
turned back at the border?
    Mr. Mello. When we have picked them up, they regret making 
that trek.
    Mr. McClintock. They made it because they knew they would 
be admitted into the country; did they not?
    Mr. Mello. Yes, sir.
    Mr. McClintock. The Democrat's witness says we simply need 
more money to process people into the country faster, allow 
them to stay, and provide even more free services to support 
them. Will this reduce illegal immigration or increase it?
    Mr. Mello. I think it will increase it.
    Mr. McClintock. Can you describe the situation that you 
have had with illegal immigration at the end of the Trump 
Administration compared with the situation you face today?
    Mr. Mello. The increase--the cost to the city, the cost of 
not being a normal community, we are being overwhelmed. We are 
being overwhelmed. One thing I can say is it needs to stop.
    Mr. McClintock. All right. Thank you very much.
    Thank you all of you for your testimony. I believe that our 
Members have exhausted their questions, so, again, thank you 
for making the trip here today. Thank you for your expert 
testimony. This will conclude today's hearing.
    Without objection, all Members will have five legislative 
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses 
or additional materials for the record.
    Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and 
Enforcement can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=116727.

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