[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]





                           REEXAMINING VA.ORG

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               before the

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

                                 of the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                        MONDAY, DECEMBER 4, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-42

                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
       
       
       
       
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                    Available via http://govinfo.gov

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                 U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

54-513                    WASHINGTON : 2026
                    

                   
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
    American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida               Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                   Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON TECHNOLOGY MODERNIZATION

              MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana, Chairman

NANCY MACE, South Carolina           SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
KEITH SELF, Texas                        Florida, Ranking Member
                                     GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
                                     
                                     
                                     
                                     

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
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further refined.











                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                        MONDAY, DECEMBER 4, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Matthew M. Rosendale, Sr., Chairman................     1
The Honorable Sheila Cherfilus-McCormick, Ranking Member.........     2

                               WITNESSES

The Honorable Kurt DelBene, Assistant Secretary for Information 
  and Technology, Office of Information & Technology, U.S. 
  Department of Veterans Affairs.................................     3

        Accompanied by:

    Mr. Charles Worthington, Chief Technology Officer, Office of 
        Information & Technology, U.S. Department of Veterans 
        Affairs

    Mr. Ray Tellez, Executive Director, Office of Business 
        Integration, Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

    Mr. Paul Shute, Deputy Under Secretary for Automated Benefits 
        Delivery, Veterans Benefits Administration, U.S. 
        Department of Veterans Affairs

                                APPENDIX
                     Prepared Statement Of Witness

The Honorable Kurt DelBene Prepared Statement....................    23










 
                           REEXAMINING VA.ORG

                              ----------                              


                        MONDAY, DECEMBER 4, 2023

             U.S. House of Representatives,
          Subcommittee on Technology Modernization,
                            Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:57 p.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Matt Rosendale 
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Rosendale, Self, and Cherfilus-
McCormick.

      OPENING STATEMENT OF MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, CHAIRMAN

    Mr. Rosendale. Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come 
to order.
    This is our second hearing on the VA.gov bugs and the 
struggles they have created for veterans to access their 
benefits.
    I would like to welcome our witnesses back to the 
discussion on these issues.
    The number of veterans affected now exceeds 120,000.
    To recap, about 32,000 veterans submitted their disability 
compensation claims through the website, but as our witnesses 
explained in September, the claims were never established in 
the system that processes them.
    This had been happening since 2018.
    In addition, roughly 81,000 veteran and family members' 
requests to add or remove dependents on VA.gov and its 
predecessor system were not processed, causing them to be 
overpaid or underpaid.
    This has been happening all the way back to 2011.
    On top of that, other veterans were unable to access the 
notice of disagreement form on VA.gov to appeal denials of 
their claims.
    This went on for about 5 weeks before being discovered.
    I understand that our witnesses have an update on the 
number of veterans who encountered that problem.
    Mistakes are bound to happen. It is unacceptable that some 
of these errors persisted for years before anyone discovered 
them.
    In the last hearing I urged our witnesses to be more 
proactive in contacting the veterans and offering them help, 
and I would like an update on that.
    Many of these veterans and survivors depend on their VA 
benefits for most or all of their income.
    They need to hear from the VA much more quickly.
    We all need to be confident that errors in the VA.gov and 
other systems will never again be allowed to compound 
undetected and impact so many people.
    To that end, I will be introducing the VA Watching Over 
Electronic Benefits Act.
    The VA now has a watchtower to monitor the website, and 
this legislation will make sure that it performs as intended.
    I would now like to turn to another problem that our 
veterans are facing.
    In early November, VA informed the committee that it has 
been overpaying pensions to at least 9,900 veterans because of 
inaccurate data from the Social Security Administration and a 
faulty process for veterans to self-report their income.
    This has been going on since 2011, and it may impact as 
many as 40,000 veterans.
    I appreciate our witnesses explaining the situation to the 
committee staff last week but there are still quite a few 
outstanding questions.
    When did VA leaders first realize that the data problems 
were creating pension overpayments?
    I understand there is a debt collection moratorium, but how 
has that been communicated to all the veterans, and how exactly 
does it work?
    When are the debts going to be erased?
    Why has the VA still not determined the status of the other 
30,000 veterans who may be affected?
    These technical issues each affected veterans' benefits in 
different ways.
    In each case, we expect the VA to put aside what is 
convenient for the bureaucracy and move faster.
    With that, I yield to Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick 
for her opening statement. Thank you.

OPENING STATEMENT OF SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, RANKING MEMBER

    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. 
Thank you so much to our witnesses for being here today and 
testifying.
    It has now been 2 months since we met to discuss issues 
with VA.gov. I look forward to today's conversation and hearing 
from witnesses how VA is progressing in fixing the problem with 
the Information Technology (IT) systems that allowed veterans 
to fall through the cracks.
    Since the hearing in September, we have learned that VA 
shut down an online form that veterans use to file pension 
claims. I have been told that the form had not been updated 
since 2018 and no longer matched the paper form used by VA 
today. I have concerns that the form went so long without being 
updated and I am curious what VA is doing to evaluate other 
electronic forms that may be out of date.
    I look forward to the conversation today. Thank you, and I 
yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you, Ranking Member Cherfilus-
McCormick.
    I will now introduce the Department of Veterans Affairs 
witnesses on our first and only panel today.
    First, we have Assistant Secretary for Information and 
Technology, Kurt DelBene. Thank you for coming in again today.
    We also have Chief Technology Officer, Charles Worthington. 
Again, thank you again for coming in.
    From the Veterans Benefits Administration we have Mr. Ray 
Tellez. Good to see you again. Executive Director of the Office 
of Business Integration.
    Joining him is Mr. Paul Shute, the Assistant Deputy Under 
Secretary for the Office of Automated Benefits Delivery. Thank 
you again.
    I ask the witnesses to please stand and raise your right 
hands.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you so much. Let the record reflect 
that all witnesses have answered in the affirmative.
    Mr. DelBene, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to 
deliver your opening statement on behalf of the panel.

                   STATEMENT OF KURT DELBENE

    Mr. DelBene. Good afternoon, Chairman Rosendale, Ranking 
Member Cherfilus-McCormick, and distinguished members of the 
subcommittee.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify today about the 
Department of Veterans Affairs VA.gov website.
    I am accompanied today by Mr. Paul Shute, the Assistant 
Deputy Under Secretary Office of Automated Benefits Delivery 
(VBA); Mr. Raymond Tellez, the Executive Director of the Office 
of Business Integration at Veterans Benefits Administration 
(VBA); and Mr. Charles Worthington, Chief Technology Officer in 
the Office of Information Technology.
    VA is committed to providing veterans with a seamless 
digital experience they have come to expect in their consumer 
lives, and VA.gov's platform strives to be that digital front 
door.
    Each month, nearly 14,000,000 unique veterans and users 
access VA.gov to learn about, apply for, and manage their VA 
benefits and healthcare.
    As an update to our September hearing, the department would 
like to share our progress on the recent VA.gov issues.
    With respect to the disability claim submission errors, as 
you will recall, we previously identified approximately 32,000 
claims that were not correctly established due to a technical 
issue.
    Currently, VA has established 25,257 of those disability 
claims and submitted them, and sent outreach letters to 
impacted veterans. As of November 28, 89.4 percent of the 
established disability claims were decided. The remaining 
identified claims will be established in December of this year.
    With respect to the dependency submission claims errors, VA 
previously identified 45,903 veterans who filed a request to 
update their dependency status and did not have it successfully 
processed. VA completed analysis and identified approximately 
81,000 veterans who filed and did not have their dependency 
submissions successfully processed. As of November 28, the VA 
established 70,406 dependency reviews and has completed 37.5 
percent with a decision notice to veterans. The remaining 
10,975 dependency claims are targeted to be established in 
December.
    With respect to the The Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson 
Honoring our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act 
Intent to File Issue (ITF), with record high claim submissions, 
the backend of VA.gov's system had an abnormal increase in time 
out errors where VA.gov was unable to process a veteran's 
intent to file. VA resolved this issue in September and 
contacted all affected veterans that their ITF was received. 
The department identified 429 ITF submissions needing 
establishment and these were processed in September.
    Finally, with respect to the Notice of Disagreement Issue, 
in September, VA identified a technical issue on VA.gov by 
noting a drop of about 900 appeals from the normal VA.gov 
submission volume. VA investigated the issue and quickly 
deployed a fix--3,152 veterans visiting the site may have been 
impacted by the inability to load the webpage that is part of 
VA.gov's Notice of Disagreement form. VA will contact the 
impacted veterans to ensure that they are able to successfully 
submit their appeal without any impact to their appeal date.
    To identify any potential issues with VA.gov, VA's Office 
of Information Technology implemented a Code Yellow process to 
ensure more accurate monitoring. Code Yellow includes 
monitoring the health of the most important applications and 
features of VA.gov and making these monitors accessible in a 
single place.
    Additionally, Code Yellow ensures a government employee 
knows about any significant issues within 24 hours. So far, 80 
percent of VA.gov's most important features are monitored, and 
VA will complete automatic monitoring of the top features by 
the end of Quarter 1 of Fiscal Year 2024.
    Finally, unrelated to previous VA.gov issues, I would like 
to address the recent notifications concerning the VA.gov 
pension application interactive form being temporarily 
unavailable from November 8, 2023, to January 31, 2024.
    Leveraging PACT Act funding, VA is updating the interactive 
form so it matches the current paper version of the form. 
Veterans, their families, and accredited representatives are 
still able to download the current pension application form and 
submit it using VA QuickSubmit on AccessVA.
    Chairman Rosendale, Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick, and 
members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to 
appear before you today. As previously mentioned, VA.gov is the 
digital front door for veterans, and veterans need to have 
confidence their benefits and services are available, accurate, 
and secure.
    I look forward to working with the subcommittee to address 
our greatest priorities and challenges that we face in our 
digital transformation.
    This concludes my testimony, and I look forward to any 
questions you may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Kurt DelBene Appears In The 
Appendix]

    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Mr. DelBene.
    The written statement of Mr. DelBene will be entered into 
the hearing record.
    We will now proceed with questioning. I recognize myself 
for 5 minutes.
    I will begin with you, Mr. Tellez.
    Mr. Tellez, I would like to return to the 32,000 veterans 
whose disability compensation claims submitted to VA.gov were 
not established in the system. Why are you only notifying the 
veterans as you process their claims? Why have we waited so 
long to provide the ones who have not been notified with the 
others with any information whatsoever?
    Mr. Tellez. Thank you, Congressman, for your question.
    I believe we are notifying them at the time of the claim's 
establishment because that is the time that we are taking an 
action on their claim. It not only updates the veteran of the 
action but explains why we are taking that action for them.
    Mr. Rosendale. Why would we not give information to the 
veterans whose claims have not been recognized at all and at 
least let them know that they have not been recognized? There 
are a lot of veterans out there that are completely oblivious, 
okay, to the fact that they have not even been recognized. 
Their claim has not even been recognized yet. Why are we not 
sending some kind of notification out to all of them?
    Mr. Tellez. Thank you, Congressman. I will take the action 
for our communications team to see how we could use social 
media and other avenues so organizations continue to spread 
that message on that issue.
    Mr. Rosendale. All right. They are walking through thinking 
they have been recognized into the system. Do you see where my 
concern is? They do not even know that there is a problem.
    Mr. Tellez. I do. Thank you, Congressman. I would just like 
to remind folks that if they have a question or concern they 
can call VBA's National Call Center, 1-800-827-1000, Monday 
through Friday, 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. Eastern Time if they do have 
questions while we continue to socialize some of the challenges 
that we have had with the VA.gov.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Well, again, ignorance may be bliss. 
That is a saying. When you are trying to get a benefit, okay, 
and apply for it and you have applied for it and you do not 
know that it has not been recognized by the system then these 
folks are not even aware that they have a problem. As you give 
an 800 number out there to folks that are not even aware of the 
fact that there is a problem, why would they even bother to 
call? How and when do you intend to notify the remaining 
veterans and process their claims?
    Mr. Tellez. Thank you, Congressman.
    We have another automated batch process scheduled for this 
month for the remaining veterans who had submitted claims. We 
will notify those remaining veterans this month when we put 
those claims under control in Veterans Benefits Management 
System (VBMS).
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. How do you decide what order and 
processes, disability compensation claims it is going to be in? 
Okay? Do we have some kind of a priority checklist from 
veterans that are either impacted by income or is it by 
chronological date or is it by--what matrix are you using to 
make a determination about when you contact people?
    Mr. Tellez. Thank you, Congressman. I will ask Mr. Shute if 
he can respond to that, please.
    Mr. Rosendale. Very good.
    Mr. Shute. We do not have a prioritized list in terms of 
income or other demographic factors. What we did is we looked 
at the population of veterans who were impacted by the 526 
application issue in VA.gov. Which claims we could get 
established most quickly so we can start working those claims, 
get those veterans a decision to make them whole. As Ray said, 
we have about 7,000 veterans left to establish and process 
their claims but there is no order of prioritization in terms 
of the factors that you mentioned.
    Mr. Rosendale. Someone who has a more severe disability who 
might be more reliant upon that income is not going to get any 
kind of preferential treatment to someone who might be just 
literally subsidizing their lifestyle a bit?
    Mr. Shute. Once the claim is established we continue to 
follow the protocols that we have for prioritizing claims for 
certain populations of veterans--terminally ill, homeless, 
things of that nature. Once the claim is----
    Mr. Rosendale. I understand once the claims is established. 
The problem is going out and actually establishing the claims 
for the people who have tried to. Are you understanding the 
question I am asking? Okay. They think that they are already in 
process and they are not. What I am trying to do is determine 
exactly what criteria are you using to get a hold of these 
people? If there is not any sense of urgency or priority given 
to anyone, which it sounds like what you are doing. You are 
just sort of, as a matter of fact, quite the contrary. You 
said, in your words, that you are trying to utilize the easiest 
cases possible to process faster?
    Mr. Shute. We are working to establish the claims that we 
can decide as quickly as possible. Those are the claims that 
get established first. Correct.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Rather than run over we are going to 
have a couple of rounds here. I am going to go ahead and 
recognize Representative Cherfilus-McCormick for 5 minutes for 
questioning.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Under Secretary DelBene, it seems that you have been left 
holding the bag. Many of these IT issues have gone undiscovered 
for years through multiple administrations and countless Chief 
Information Officers (CIOs). You just happen to be there, the 
one in the seat when we have found them and are left to answer 
all the hard questions.
    I thank you for your efforts to get VA's IT system up to 
the standard that we expect and that veterans deserve.
    I would like to spend my time getting some updates on the 
issues we discussed in September. At our last hearing on 
VA.gov, we discussed the approximately 45,000 veterans who 
attempted to update their beneficiaries' information failed. 
When did the issue first start and how did we identify it?
    Mr. DelBene. Thank you for your question. Actually, I think 
I would pass that question to Paul who can answer it more 
completely.
    Mr. Shute. We first discovered the issue in August 2021. At 
that time we found a defect between the integration between our 
VA.gov and VBMS systems. At that time we had delivered a 
capability to generate a report any time that issue was 
encountered. Our Office of Information Technology team could 
pass a report basically to VBA so that we could manually 
establish and work those claims.
    Now, it was not until January 2023 that we learned from our 
National Call Center that they were getting an increased volume 
of calls from veterans who had filed a dependency claim on 
VA.gov and did not receive a decision. At that point in time we 
stood up an integrated project team to really delve in and see 
if there were other issues that we had not accounted for and 
that is what led to the population of 45,000 veterans that we 
reported at the last hearing.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Has the number of veterans 
identified changed since our last hearing? What is the status 
of those veterans' beneficiaries status that changed?
    Mr. Shute. As part of the review, we have identified any 
potentially affected veteran and we have now identified a 
population of 81,000 veterans who may have been impacted by 
this issue. Now, we are confident that not all 81,000 were 
impacted but we want to conduct a review of each and every one 
of those claims to make sure that we are able to make those 
veterans whole.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. When do you expect that all the 
beneficiary status updates will have been completed?
    Mr. Shute. To date, we have established 70,000 of that 
81,000 veteran population and 45 percent of them have been 
completed so far. We are planning to establish the remaining 
11,000 claims later this month.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Okay. Thank you.
    Also, during that hearing we discussed the approximately 
32,000 veterans who attempted to file for disability 
compensation were not correctly established. When did this 
issue first start and when did you identify it?
    Mr. Shute. We first identified this issue in November 2022. 
At that time it was impacting around 75,000 claims per week 
according to our projections. The issue dated back to 2018. To 
clarify, 75 cases per week is what we are anticipating the 
impact to be.
    That month we determined there were around 32,000 veterans 
that were impacted by this issue and we began working on a 
remediation plan.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Has the number of veterans 
identified changed since our last hearing? What is the status 
of those veteran claims?
    Mr. Shute. The number has not changed. To date we have been 
able to establish 25,000 of those claims and 90 percent of them 
have been completed. We are planning to establish the remaining 
7,000 later this month.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Well, thank you. I yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much Ranking Member 
Cherfilus-McCormick.
    I will now recognize my good friend from Texas, 
Representative Self.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    A lot of process as normal we hear in your briefing 
packets. A lot of process. Who wants to answer this question: 
What is the financial impact, potential financial impact on the 
well-being of individual veterans for the disability 
compensation claims and pension payments errors? Who wants to 
answer that? What is the potential impact on individual 
veterans?
    Then once we get the individual veterans, what is the 
estimate? What I am asking is what do you think on each 
veteran, what is a reasonable guess at how much they owe? Then 
I want to know what you think the figure is VA wide. Individual 
veterans and then VA wide, what is your liability?
    Mr. Tellez. Thank you, Congressman, for your question.
    In terms of the first part, the financial impact, I think 
it is To Be Determined (TBD) because we are still reviewing 
those claims. One of the things that we are working from is no 
harm to the veteran. As we are looking at these claims, where 
there may be a debt created as a result of this system error 
those are the things that we can mitigate through our normal 
claims processing. We have got rules and authorities to handle 
that. Even with the pension overpayment that Congressman 
Rosendale spoke of earlier we have authorities in there to 
address that, too, and we are working that internally.
    I have to take your questions two and three back because I 
do not know that we know enough information to be able to 
answer it here.
    Mr. Self. Let me give you just back of the envelope 
figures. Okay? There are some variables here. If we use a 
pension amount of $2,000, overpayment amount 10 percent, 5 
percent, and you work with those figures, you are talking 
about, depending on whether you are talking about the 10,000 
veterans or you are talking about the 40,000 veterans and I 
have got it, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars that 
veterans owe the VA. Is that reasonable?
    Mr. Tellez. Congressman, I am not prepared to address that. 
We were not prepared to answer the questions on payment. They 
were not in the invite letter but we are happy to take that 
question back for you and get you a response or a briefing for 
you and your staff.
    Mr. Self. Well, I suspect that you need to know that answer 
because this is a direct liability that the veterans have to 
the VA when you are addressing how you are going to handle it.
    My second question is I still see that you have not 
contacted some of the veterans depending on the issue here. 
This is serious business for the individual veterans and I want 
to know why you have not contacted every single veteran. This 
is, I think you are using Code Yellow. Why is this not a Code 
Red, because this direct impacts our veterans. Do you even have 
a Code Red?
    Mr. DelBene. Actually, I would say with that in respect in 
particular, if a system is down that is probably the closest 
thing to a Code Red and our goal is to get that system back up 
as soon as possible. I triage with the rest of our team every 
single issue that happens in the entire VA infrastructure every 
day at 8 a.m., and we actually measure our time to recovery on 
our major systems each and every month. We do a monthly 
operations review to make sure that anything that you would 
probably consider a code red gets addressed super quickly.
    Mr. Self. I am not really interested in the Code Red. I am 
talking about the veterans. I am more interested in the 
individual veterans being contacted that they have a problem.
    Mr. DelBene. I will pass it to Paul and to Ray in a moment, 
but I think the one thing that is the guiding principle is once 
we have established for a group that is similar in an issue 
like that there is a claim that appears to be valid, we 
establish those as quickly as we can. Once we have established 
them we, communicate to that veteran. This whole notion that a 
veteran would go not knowing whether they have a claim 
outstanding or not, I do not think that is usually the case. 
The moment we know that there is a class of folks that we 
should communicate to, we always strive to communicate to them 
as quickly as we can.
    Mr. Self. Okay. You used the term ``as quickly as 
possible.'' What is the standard for ``quickly as possibly''?
    Mr. DelBene. I would think it is situation dependent but 
let me pass to Ray or to Paul. Do you have any thoughts there?
    Mr. Self. I have a standard in my office. When somebody 
contacts us I have a standard by which we answer.
    Mr. DelBene. Sure.
    Mr. Self. What is your standard? Once you have identified--
because I assume you are identifying new errors all the time. 
What is your standard for contacting the veteran? I do not want 
to talk process. I want to talk how you are treating our 
veterans. What is the standard for ``as quickly as possible''? 
There has got to be a standard here, folks. There has got to be 
a function.
    Mr. Shute. I think the standard that we are all working 
toward now is immediate notification of not only the affected 
veterans but in key stakeholders and partners like yourself and 
the Veterans Service Organization (VSO) community.
    Mr. Self. I would like to know what the objective standard 
is. Mr. Chairman, I am out of time. I yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much.
    Quite frankly, we have just heard from you two 
contradictory statements, Mr. DelBene. That you want to have 
immediate notification. As soon as you find that there is a 
problem that you want to make sure that the veterans are 
notified and we know, and you know, of information for a year's 
time now where they have not had their information recognized 
by the Veterans Administration because of failures within the 
software programs and you have not notified them. How in the 
world are you going to sit there and say immediate notification 
when you have got thousands of veterans who have applied for 
benefits and have not been notified that their form, that their 
application has not even been recognized by the VA yet? That is 
not immediate in anybody's book.
    Mr. Worthington, let us talk about the notice of 
disagreement issue, and not the one that I have with you right 
now.
    We have heard several different numbers of veterans 
impacted who may or may not have been able to appeal denials of 
their claims. Now you are telling us it was 3,152. Do you know 
who these veterans are? Have you determined whether they were 
able to file notice of disagreement using a different method?
    Mr. Worthington. Thank you for the question.
    The notice of disagreement impacted the ability of we 
believe 3,100 veterans to load the form. We do not know for 
sure if the veteran would have intended to submit the form or 
not. This would have appeared to them as just an error loading 
the webpage. We do have a record, however, of who those 
individual veterans are, and I believe the board is planning to 
reach out to those veterans to ensure that they have been able 
to apply for an appeal if, in fact, that was their intention. 
If so, to be able to maintain the effective date of the appeal 
dating back to that error.
    Mr. Rosendale. When did you discover the problem?
    Mr. Worthington. I believe this was discovered in August of 
this year and fixed a few days after that.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. We are still trying to notify these 
veterans.
    Mr. Shute, was that immediately, August, they found out, 
they discovered in August? Would you call that immediate 
notification of those veterans? Here it is December the--what 
is today? The 4th. That is not immediate in my book. Okay?
    Mr. Worthington, when are you going to contact the veterans 
who have not filed a notice of disagreement that you have 
identified that tried to?
    Mr. Worthington. I will have to get back to you with the 
specific plans. I believe the board and Office of Information 
Technology (OIT) are working on that for early next year.
    Mr. Rosendale. Mr. DelBene, I would like to quickly turn to 
the 56,000 dependent changes that were not processed. I 
understand this number has risen now to 81,000. How many of 
these requests have you processed now and how many of these 
veterans or dependents have already passed away before the 
results were even processed?
    Mr. DelBene. If I may, I think Mr. Shute is probably the 
best person to answer that question. It is in his domain.
    Mr. Shute. Of the 70,000 claims that we have established to 
date, we have completed 45 percent of those. In terms of the 
result of the claim decisions, we do not have that information 
available today but I would be more than happy to provide that 
to you in the coming days.
    Mr. Rosendale. What I am trying to discover is obviously, 
when the claimant has passed away while they were in process, 
not only did they not get the benefit of this but it certainly 
complicates the beneficiary thereafter of any benefit that they 
are going to serve as well.
    The long and short of it is--where is my calculator? Okay. 
We have got 31,500 of the 81,000 that have been processed. That 
is about what I have got. You have got 70,000 of the 81,000, 
and you have got 45 percent of the 70,000. 31,500 have been 
processed. That is a fancy way of saying 31,500. We have still 
got a lot of people, again, out there that have not been 
processed, notified.
    Mr. Worthington, I have some questions about VA.gov 
watchtower. If I understand correctly, it focuses on monitoring 
transaction volumes to detect the anomalies. Spikes volume or 
valleys in the volume. Why not focus on detecting the 
processing errors themselves?
    Mr. Worthington. Yes, that is a great question. It does 
include both volume but also error rates and other key factors 
that would indicate the health of a specific feature. The 
intention would be to summarize what you are describing.
    Mr. Rosendale. Now, everyone continues to speak about, 
again, the anomalies and the peaks and valleys in activity and 
that is what you are using as the flag, if you will, to 
identify that may be something is going wrong. Are you telling 
me the software does have the ability to identify when there is 
a problem in the information that is either being received or 
delivered?
    Mr. Worthington. Yes, we are additionally looking at error 
rates in the transactions. Volume would be one indicator but 
also error rates and things like latency, how long did the 
request take, are other factors that are going into the 
watchtower.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. I am going to yield to Ranking Member 
Cherfilus-McCormick for additional questions.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    My next question is for Mr. DelBene or any one of the 
witnesses who can answer it.
    We saw an article from a Florida man, a veteran, actually, 
who received a notification that he was in debt to the VA for 
more than $100,000 related to the issues with the income 
verification. Naturally, that created a lot of anxiety with our 
veterans wondering if they, too, owe money. If they would be in 
that situation. I wanted to talk to some of the assurances that 
we may provide for some of our vets who are in this situation 
or may be later on. Related to the pension program issue, I 
understand that the VA intends to use all of its authorities 
available to forgive any debts occurred by veterans; is that 
correct?
    Mr. DelBene. Let me pass that one to Mr. Shute who is the 
domain expert there.
    Mr. Shute. That is correct. We are looking to exercise the 
authorities available to us under the Cleland-Dole Act which 
would allow us to prevent debt from occurring in those 
situations. While we are working to codify that into regulation 
we have some draft policies in place that are being reviewed by 
the Secretary right now and those decisions should be coming 
out soon.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Just to clarify, could you expand 
on that for some of our veterans who might be watching who 
might be anxious? A lot of the veterans in my district became 
anxious. I want to make sure that is clear for them that we 
have a reassurance.
    Mr. Shute. Yes. The Cleland-Dole Act I believe in section 
252 ensures or prohibits VA from creating a debt for veterans 
when it is an action that is due on part of the VA and delay in 
the processing time. That is really the authority that we are 
using in this situation to not only put those debts on hold 
while we put that interim policy in place but to ensure that no 
future debts are a result of issues like this.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. For further clarification, is 
there a population of veterans that you do not have sufficient 
authority to forgive?
    Mr. Shute. Not that I am aware of. However, due to the 
complexity of some of the policy components I would love to 
work with you and your staff and make sure that we bring some 
policy experts from our team who can speak to this topic more 
intelligently than I can.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Also, I wanted to ask because some 
people are wondering how does this even occur? How have these 
veterans acquired such large debts?
    Mr. Shute. So I think to start it is helpful to understand 
the program that we are talking about here. So the Veteran 
Pension Program provides monthly benefits to veterans based on 
factors like age and disability and also income and net worth. 
Veterans are asked to self-report the income and net worth as 
part of their application process and as part of an annual 
validation. We had computer matching agreements with the Social 
Security Administration to be able to validate that the self-
reported income was correct and the computer matching that was 
in place in 2011 was sending data that we could not effectively 
rely on. That is when we moved away from using that computer 
match and relied exclusively on the self-reported data. Those 
issues have now been resolved with the computer matching 
program but for veterans who had self-reported income that was 
different than the computer match between that period of time, 
2011 till the present time, a debt could have occurred in those 
instances.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. The issue first started in 2011; 
is that correct?
    Mr. Shute. That is correct.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. If a vet received a debt letter 
how should they follow up?
    Mr. Shute. Right now we put all the debt notification and 
debt collections on hold while we work to exercise the 
authorities available to us under the Cleland-Dole Act.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you, Ranking Member Cherfilus-
McCormick.
    I now recognize Ranking Member, excuse me, Representative 
Self from Texas.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Do you think that watchtower is quality control (QC)?
    Mr. Worthington. Yes. I would say that we are designing it 
so that we have more confidence in the specific health of any 
given feature at any given time because VA.gov is such an 
expansive product with so many aspects. This would give us a 
way to know more proactively if there is an issue happening, 
impacting one of those features.
    Mr. Self. Now, I disagree with you because what you said is 
you are monitoring the health of your functions. That is what I 
disagree with because everything we hear again is process here. 
I hear very little about the veterans. I am talking about the 
quality of control that should be exercised in the 
determinations, and we have had other briefings about the 
appeals board and all of that. This is my problem. We are 
talking about AccessVA here. Why can the live forms not keep up 
with the paper forms? It looks to me like it would be harder to 
get a new paper form approved than it would be to recode a live 
form on VA.gov as opposed to AccessVA. Why can they not keep 
up? Why do you have to take that function down and have people 
use AccessVA? Can anyone answer that?
    Mr. DelBene. If I may, the first thing I would like to 
address is I think the difference between what Mr. Worthington, 
where his head was at and your point around QC is it is a 
portion of QC. It is a full process from ingestion all the way 
to processing of those appeals. I think watchtower is QC in 
that front end.
    The other thing that was not mentioned, which I think is 
really important, is we have changed the error handling so that 
everything that does not get processed by the actual software 
goes into the in mail or inbound mail for people to process 
manually. I think that is that quality control that makes sure 
everything gets processed.
    Then there is a separate question about a discussion about 
whether the handling of the application once it has actually 
been submitted is quality controlled and we can have a 
discussion about that, too. I just wanted to make a distinction 
there.
    In terms of the forms, every time there is a form that is 
changed, the computer version of it gets onto a feature list 
that gets prioritized by us and by the VBA to decide what 
features will be implemented in what order. I think that is a 
very back and forth process. Lots of debate goes on of what is 
more important. Adding more capability to VA.gov so that more 
people can apply online versus changing the particular form. I 
think in this particular case, VBA had found a way around it so 
that they could actually still process these forms by reaching 
out to the veteran and that weighs into that kind of 
prioritization scheme.
    Mr. Self. Okay. I will not pursue that. Let us talk about 
your authorities. When you talk about pensions, typically these 
are low-income and elderly veterans; correct? As I read the 
authority to delay collection, when I read the authority, the 
secretary can delay if it is likely to cause repayment of such 
overpayment makes it more difficult for the individual, likely 
to cause an unpaid debt to be referred to the Treasury Offset 
program or not in the best interest of the individual. I think 
that could cover almost everyone in this program because we are 
talking about low-income and elderly veterans. Is that a fair 
statement?
    The follow-on question I will give you before you answer, 
do you simply delay or do you do any expungement?
    Mr. Worthington. Let me pass that one to Mr. Shute to 
respond.
    Mr. Shute. Yes. Unfortunately, I am only able to speak to 
the technical components of that. Again, some of our policy 
experts who understand the nuances of that law I would love to 
take some of those questions back and make sure we can get you 
a thorough response.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Do you do expungement?
    Mr. Shute. I am not aware of any policies related to 
expungement.
    Mr. Self. We have got potentially hundreds of millions of 
dollars that the veterans of this nation owe the VA. Many of 
them do not know it and you can delay it but not expunge it. 
That is something we probably ought to make clear to our 
veterans. If you have gotten one of these letters or if you are 
going to get one of these letters I think we need to make that 
clear to our veterans.
    With that I yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Worthington, I am going to get back to the watchtower 
process. Do you think it would be an unreasonable expectation 
to prevent the errors in the situations we have been 
discussing?
    Mr. Worthington. No. I think that is exactly our goal is to 
reduce the chance of errors like this happening and certainly 
not for as long as they happened in this case. We view that as 
unacceptable and this program I think will give us more 
confidence that that is not occurring as we try to get all of 
the features monitored.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. If watchtower currently covers about 
80 percent of VA.gov's most commonly used features, what are 
the other features that are not covered?
    Mr. Worthington. Well, we are working our way down the 
list. As Mr. DelBene mentioned, we are planning to get to 100 
percent of those tier one features by the end of this year, by 
the end of December. We want to get all of the features on 
VA.gov similarly monitored. I think that will be a work in 
progress as we continue through the year.
    Mr. Rosendale. How can we believe that the veteran 
submissions to those parts of the website are not being lost or 
delayed?
    Mr. Worthington. I think we want to look exactly into that 
question. Now that we have the pattern of these initial errors, 
we are going to be looking at all of the different types to 
ensure that if we see any similar issues we can fix them as 
well.
    Mr. Rosendale. Again, how can we be sure, Mr. DelBene, that 
that information is not being lost or delayed if it is not 
being monitored by watchtower?
    Mr. DelBene. I think the important thing is the error 
handling if something does not get caught has changed so that 
it always goes into the inbox for somebody to human process. 
That says, one, we want to monitor how it is doing; but two, we 
have a failsafe that goes in for manual processing.
    Mr. Rosendale. Is that happening now?
    Mr. DelBene. We are putting that error handling in place. 
Yes. Have for at least 80 percent of the case.
    Mr. Rosendale. It is happening now? You say you are putting 
it in place.
    Mr. DelBene. Well, it is part of this process of putting 
the watchtower in place and getting the error handling correct.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Mr. DelBene, do you intend to wrap up 
your Code Yellow special focus on fixing VA.gov in the next 2 
weeks?
    Mr. Worthington. I believe that is our goal is to complete 
our Code Yellow in the next 2 weeks. Before we would exit the 
Code Yellow, we would have had to achieve the goal of getting 
100 percent of those features fully monitored, and so we will 
only exit the Code Yellow if that is true but our plan is to do 
so.
    Mr. Rosendale. Do you believe that is possible, that this 
is physically possible, because we are going to be coming back 
again and bringing these questions up, so.
    Mr. Worthington. Yes, I currently believe we can finish our 
stated goal of the exit of the Code Yellow for those tier one 
features by the end of this year.
    Mr. DelBene. I think it is important also, if I may just 
very quickly, the importance of Code Yellow is we do not 
actually exit the Code Yellow until the exit criteria are met, 
which means we will be understating the timeframe as Charles 
said but----
    Mr. Rosendale. Sure. I am more concerned about the work 
being done than what color you call it. Okay?
    Mr. DelBene. Fair enough.
    Mr. Rosendale. I just want the work to be done. I want you 
to be truthful when you are here before us that this is 
realistically how long it is going to take us to accomplish 
that. I would rather have a little bit of bad news right now 
knowing that it is going to take a little bit longer and have 
it be accurate than have you blowing smoke up the rear end of a 
horse, okay, right now telling us bad information.
    Mr. DelBene. Understood.
    Mr. Rosendale. That is basically what I am getting at.
    Mr. Worthington. I do want to be clear that we are focusing 
on those most used features. We still also want to cover all of 
the features of the website. As we expand the watchtower to 
include all the features we may find other things. That would 
be the hope is that we do find them so we can fix them.
    Mr. Rosendale. Mr. DelBene, I want to turn to the pension 
application form that was disabled on VA.gov. How long did it 
go without being updated to reflect the changes to the paper 
form?
    Mr. DelBene. I believe the current version of the paper 
form was implemented in 2018. For at least a year thereafter 
there would have been a policy to allow the old form as well. 
For at least a year past that. You can say around 2019 it would 
have still been accepted. From that point forward, when an 
agent received it and started processing it, they would have to 
reach out to the veteran to get that additional information.
    It is important to stress that at least half of the times 
when an agent receives one of these pension forms they actually 
have to go back to the veteran to get more information and this 
became one of those cases. I do not want to speak for the VBA 
folks. They can do that as well. They became adept at having 
the exact information they need reaching out to the veterans to 
bring that back in to continue the processing.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. I guess really the thing that I am 
getting at is to make sure why is it that we are putting a 
different application form online, okay, electronically, and 
possibly issuing a paper form that does not reflect the same 
request. If a veteran has in their possession an old form that 
is one thing but we absolutely should not have a paper form 
reflective of different requests than the electronic form 
through the agency.
    Mr. DelBene. I agree. I think this was a case as I tried to 
explain that the prioritization was such that this did not rise 
to the top of the list. When we saw it in the summer we said 
this is causing more difficulty for veterans. We should fix it 
now. That is why we chose to pull it down and to actually use 
PACT Act funding which we are appreciative of to be able to 
revamp the form.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you.
    I recognize Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    My question is for Mr. Shute. One of the questions, one of 
the things that we hope to happen, any implementation of an IT 
solution is that you could prevent any problems which usually 
happens after you recognize it, mitigate the situation which I 
think freezing it so far is a mitigation attempt but also 
correcting it, correcting that issue. As I mentioned, I really 
wanted to make our veterans kind of relieve some of that 
anxiety. Earlier you indicated that the VA froze all the debt 
generation and collection for the vets who already received a 
letter. How can they contact the VA to find out the status of 
their debt?
    Mr. Shute. All veterans can reach out to us through the 
National Call Center. The call center agents are equipped with 
talking points and additional guidance that can help them 
navigate any questions related to debt.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you.
    Then I guess my last comment and question that I would want 
from you is like a reassurance. You know, usually we try to be, 
especially on this committee, be bipartisan because our concern 
is the veterans. I think the reassurance that we are going to 
do everything we can to make sure that our veterans are not 
suffering a negative economic impact due to mistakes to 
implementing our IT system is really what we are trying to draw 
out of here. That we will do everything in our power to make 
sure they do not have a negative impact. Could you guys assure 
us that we are on the same page; that we could do that for our 
veterans?
    Mr. Shute. We can definitely assure you of that. You have 
my word that we, in putting the veteran at the center of 
everything that we do, are going to make sure that not only we 
make every single veteran whole who is affected by this issue 
but any debts that were created as a result of any of these 
issues will not be incurred for those veterans.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much.
    I yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. I recognize Representative Self.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I think I know the answers to this but I want to make clear 
to any veterans that might be watching this, I think I have 
this right. Prior to June 2022, a 90-year-old veteran who 
collects a VA pension--this is for you, Mr. Tellez--is 
responsible for updating VA on his Social Security income every 
year. If his Social Security payment went up and he did not 
report it he would automatically have a debt with the VA.
    Now, first of all, is that correct?
    Mr. Tellez. Thank you for your question, Congressman. I am 
going to have to take that back to our policy folks. I do not 
want to misspeak on that issue.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Then my follow-up question is, does the 
annual Cost-of-Living Adjustment (COLA) make up additional 
income? Is that what you are counting as additional income? Not 
a different adjudicated Social Security claim; simply the 
yearly COLA?
    Mr. Tellez. Congressman, I will have to take that back to 
our policy folks and provide you an answer to that which we are 
happy to do.
    Mr. Self. I would love to see that answer because, I mean, 
this goes to the nuts and bolts of what we are discussing here. 
What exactly is a COLA increase? Is it the yearly COLA or is 
it--our income increase, is it the yearly COLA or is it simply 
a change in the claim for some reason? It is vitally important.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Representative.
    Mr. Shute, we have been talking about the veterans pensions 
and exactly what is going to happen and the process therein. 
First of all, what exactly was wrong with the Social Security 
computer matching agreement and what exactly did they fix so 
that you can rely upon it today?
    Mr. Shute. From my understanding, the information that was 
provided as part of that computer match was not providing 
accurate income data from the Social Security Administration. 
The teams have been working on that. That has since been 
corrected but that was the issue.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Just for clarification purposes, when 
Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick was asking about all of this 
you made reference to the self-reporting requirements of the 
veterans and how that was working. I think it should be made 
pretty clear here, very clear here that the problem was not 
with the self-reporting of the veterans. The problem was with 
the reporting that the Social Security Administration was doing 
with VA.
    Mr. Shute. The only part that I would like to clarify there 
is when we identified the discrepancies in the computer match 
we stopped using it entirely. Once those issues were corrected 
and we could rely upon the data coming back from the Social 
Security Administration, that is when the comparison of the 
self-reported data to the computer match was effectuated, which 
did result in those debts. It was not until we could accurately 
rely upon that information that that match occurred.
    Mr. Rosendale. I understand that but again, I want to make 
sure that we are clear here that this was not a deficiency by 
the veterans themselves and their reporting; it was a problem 
with the software or the reporting that the Social Security 
Administration was doing with the Veterans Administration.
    Mr. Shute. I agree. We take full responsibility for the 
issues with that computer match and that is why we are taking 
the actions that we are taking right now.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. Again, I just wanted to clarify that 
because as the conversation was taking place it sounded like a 
lot of the weight of this was being blamed upon the veterans 
themselves for some kind of inaccuracies and self-reporting, 
and I wanted to make sure that that was not.
    Mr. Shute, exactly what needs to happen in order for 
Secretary McDonough to erase these debts?
    Mr. Shute. The Cleland-Dole Act provided us some 
authorities that we are working to codify into regulation. As 
we are working to do that we want to develop this interim 
policy that will allow us to basically take action before those 
authorities are codified into regulation. In terms of the 
specific parameters of how we apply that policy I would like to 
be able to work with your staff and you, in particular, to 
provide some more detailed information as I can speak to the 
technological components of that but not the policy details 
themselves.
    Mr. Rosendale. Okay. I would like to also see us work 
together to get a statement out there so that the veterans who 
receive these pension payments that we can remove this cloud of 
anxiety that may be hanging above them where they may or may 
not know if they are obligated. That is a very, very bad 
position to place them in and I would like to have language out 
there that clarifies that.
    Mr. DelBene, we just received less than an hour ago a 
response to Chairman Bost's September 6 letter to Secretary 
McDonough requesting explanations of the VA.gov problems. It 
took two hearings by this subcommittee to shake this response 
loose and that is absolutely unacceptable. I want to ask you 
about one statement in the letter. It says that the VA chief 
information officer--that is you--brought on a new senior 
executive who directly reports to you and will ensure issues 
related to mishandled claims and veterans unable to access a 
benefit application are rapidly fixed. The letter makes direct 
response to them. Okay?
    Who is the new senior executive? Is he here today? He or 
she here today? If not, why?
    Mr. DelBene. Thank you for the question. I actually hold 
myself responsible for making sure that we make any fixes. I am 
not sure. I will have to go back on the reference to the actual 
executive we are speaking of.
    Mr. Rosendale. I have got a quote here right from the 
letter from Secretary McDonough. It says, ``Recently VA's chief 
information officer, CIO, brought on a new senior executive who 
directly reports to him and will ensure issues related to 
mishandled claims and veterans unable to access a benefit 
application page are rapidly fixed.''
    Mr. DelBene. Let me get back to you on that one.
    Mr. Rosendale. You do not know who your new senior 
executive is?
    Mr. DelBene. I know all of my senior executives. I am 
trying to make sure that I give you the correct information in 
terms of who we are referencing there.
    Mr. Rosendale. We will look for that by the end of day 
today. Okay? Not by next week. If you have got a senior 
executive that the Secretary of Veterans Affairs is saying is 
responsible for something and that you hired them, we need to 
know about that.
    Mr. DelBene. Fair enough.
    Mr. Rosendale. You certainly should know about that.
    Mr. DelBene. We will get back to you today on that.
    Mr. Rosendale. I defer to Ranking Member Cherfilus-
McCormick.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. I yield my time.
    Mr. Rosendale. Do you have any closing remarks? I am sorry, 
Representative Cherfilus-McCormick?
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. I do.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much, Chairman 
Rosedale.
    I appreciate the testimony and answers from all our 
witnesses this afternoon. I recognize that no IT solution is 
perfect and they are constantly evolving and changing and that 
evolution introduces risk. VA has a lot of work to do to 
resolve these IT issues and to make sure the fallout is managed 
for the veterans impacted. Specifically, that veterans do not 
suffer any negative impacts. We will continue to monitor this 
situation until it is resolved.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Representative 
Cherfilus-McCormick.
    I want to thank our witnesses for returning this afternoon 
to update the committee and the public on these issues that are 
so important for veterans and their livelihoods all around the 
country. Please remember these hearings are not just for the 
people in this room. Tens of thousands of people are watching 
on the internet and on C-SPAN. Veterans expect that whenever 
the VA gives them a piece of technology to use it is going to 
work. It is supposed to improve their lives. When it does not 
work, veterans and their family members should be confident 
that the VA will take responsibility for the consequences. I 
appreciate our witnesses explaining what they have done and 
plan to do to make these benefits right. I still question why 
no action was taken for 5 years, for 10 years, or even 12 years 
after the technical glitches began. I hope no more shoes will 
drop and there will be no more need for another hearing. As I 
said in September, regardless of what happens, our focus on 
making the veterans whole will continue. They cannot be left 
waiting and wondering until the VA gets around to helping them.
    With that I ask unanimous consent that all members have 5 
legislative days to revise and extend their remarks and include 
extraneous material.
    Without objection, so ordered. The hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:54 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]



      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X

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                     Prepared Statement of Witness

                              ----------                              


                   Prepared Statement of Kurt DelBene

    Good afternoon, Chairman Rosendale, Ranking Member Cherfilus-
McCormick, and distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for 
the opportunity to testify today about the Department of Veterans 
Affairs (VA) VA.gov website. I am accompanied today by Mr. Paul Shute, 
Assistant Deputy Under Secretary, Automated Benefits Delivery, Veterans 
Benefits Administration, Mr. Raymond Tellez, Executive Director, Office 
of Business Integration, Veterans Benefits Administration, and Mr. 
Charles Worthington, VA's Chief Technology Officer, Office of 
Information and Technology.
    VA is committed to providing Veterans with a seamless digital 
experience and the VA.gov platform strives to provide that digital 
front door. Nearly 14 million Veterans and others access VA.gov for 
information and resources each month. VA.gov provides Veterans with an 
online platform to learn about, apply for, and manage their VA benefits 
and healthcare. As an update to our September hearing, the Department 
would like to share our progress on the recent VA.gov issues.

REMEDIATION

    Disability Compensation Claim Submission Errors: Earlier this year, 
we identified approximately 32,000 claims that were not correctly 
established due to a technological issue. Since our last update to the 
Committee, VA has established 25,257 disability claim submissions 
through a series of automated claims establishments along with 
correspondence to each impacted Veteran. VA is reviewing the record of 
every affected Veteran to ensure no claimant has been negatively 
impacted by this system failure. To provide full transparency, even if 
the review does not result in a change to benefit entitlement, 
claimants will receive notice when the review is complete, citing the 
considered documents and evidence. For all affected living and deceased 
Veterans, the date of claim will reflect the date of the earliest 
failed submission. As of November 28, 2023, 89.4 percent of the 25,257 
established disability claims have been decided. In order to prevent 
similar issues in the future, VA established a backup procedure in 
January 2023, and further refined procedures for claims submissions 
that encounter this error to be routed as a package, with all documents 
submitted by the claimant, to VA's centralized mail portal for 
processing. VA will capture any claim that failed submission and route 
for processing in a timely manner. The remaining identified claims are 
expected to be batch-established in December 2023.
    Dependency Submission Claim Errors: In August 2023, VA identified 
45,903 Veterans who had filed a request to update their dependency 
status online and did not have those claims successfully processed. In 
October 2023, VA completed analysis of all electronic dependency 
submissions since 2011 and identified over 81,000 Veterans who filed a 
request to update their dependency status online and did not have those 
submissions successfully processed (an update to the 45,903 Veterans 
provided above). VA is reviewing all affected dependency claims 
submissions to ensure no claimant has been negatively impacted by this 
error in VA.gov. This includes a review for a potential overpayment to 
the claimant and mitigation of debts attributed to the failed 
submission. As of November 28, 2023, VA has established 70,406 
dependency reviews and has completed 37.5 percent dependency reviews, 
providing decision notice to the Veteran. Approximately 10,000 
dependency claims are targeted for a December 2023 batch claims 
establishment. Moving forward, all dependency claims submissions that 
encounter an error will be routed to VA's centralized mail portal for 
processing to capture any future claims that may fail.
    PACT Act Intent to File (ITF) Issue: 38 C.F.R Sec.  3.114 
incentivizes claimants to file their claim or ITF as soon as possible 
after enactment of a law or policy establishing eligibility for 
benefits by providing for the maximum retroactive benefit available. If 
a claim or ITF is received within one year from the effective date of 
an enacted law or change in the way VA addresses an issue, benefits may 
be authorized from the effective date of the law or VA issue change. 
Most Veterans and survivors who applied for benefits or who submitted 
an ITF by August 14, 2023, if granted, would have their benefits 
backdated to August 10, 2022. Due to the record-high PACT Act claims 
submissions leading up to the August 2023 submission deadline, the 
backend VA.gov system experienced an abnormal increase in ``timeout'' 
errors indicating VA.gov was unable to process the Veterans' Intents to 
File (ITF) and prevented some Veterans from completing a disability 
claim application. In response to this error, VA published a notice in 
the Federal Register recognizing VA.gov submissions received through 
August 14, 2023, as received by VA on August 8, 2023, preserving the 
most favorable effective date for the claim. Additionally, VA 
temporarily enhanced the call center Interactive Voice Response to 
prioritize ITF calls from Veterans during business hours. This 
enhancement also allowed Veterans afterhours access to provide personal 
identifiable information, enabling VA to call them back to complete the 
ITF process. The VA.gov technology issue was resolved in September 
2023. VA contacted all affected users by email to assure them their ITF 
was received in VA's Veterans Benefits Management System (VBMS). VA 
identified 429 Intent to File submissions needing establishment, which 
were batch-processed in September 2023.
    Notice of Disagreement Issue: In September 2023, VA identified a 
technical issue on VA.gov by noting a drop of about 900 appeals from 
the normal VA.gov submission volume. VA investigated the issue and 
quickly deployed a fix. It was determined that about 3,152 Veterans 
visiting the site may have been impacted by the inability to load a 
webpage that's part of the VA.gov Notice Of Disagreement form. VA will 
contact the impacted Veterans to ensure they were able to successfully 
submit their appeal without any impact to their appeal date.

REVIEWS AND IMPROVEMENTS

    As this Subcommittee is aware, IT solutions are constantly evolving 
and changing, and software issues can arise. The Department 
acknowledges, however, the unacceptable time it took to proactively 
identify these issues with VA.gov. VA is taking all necessary steps to 
prevent similar issues in the future, and, if issues do arise, to 
identify and fix those issues quickly. We are also conducting a full 
review of all VA.gov processing systems to ensure we have comprehensive 
error handling in place.
    From a technical perspective, VA's Office of Information and 
Technology (OIT) has implemented a ``Code Yellow'' process to ensure 
that we can more accurately observe and monitor potential issues in 
VA.gov. The goals of Code Yellow include monitoring the health of the 
most important applications and features on VA.gov and making these 
monitors accessible in one place. Additionally, Code Yellow ensures a 
government employee is aware of any significant issue within 24 hours 
of detection.
    So far, this effort has led to 56 automatic monitors being 
consolidated onto a unified ``watch tower,'' where the health of VA.gov 
can be discerned in a single place. So far, 80 percent of VA.gov's most 
important features are represented on this watch tower, and VA expects 
to complete automatic monitors on the remaining top features by the end 
of Quarter 1 in Fiscal Year 2024. OIT has also established standard 
operating procedures that ensure alerts on the watch tower are triaged 
as they happen.
    In addition, VA is investing in modernizing our claims and appeals 
processing infrastructure to ensure a seamless, error-free experience 
for Veterans, their families, caregivers and survivors on VA.gov. Even 
as we work to incorporate monitoring, the root causes of these issues 
stem from many different failure points in VA's legacy infrastructure. 
Using funding from the Toxic Exposures Fund, OIT is continuing to 
modernize and de-layer this infrastructure, which will reduce the 
number of failure points and make the remaining ones more fault 
tolerant. VA will resolve these issues, prevent them from happening in 
the future, address them more quickly when needed and most importantly, 
make sure that all impacted Veterans get the benefits and services that 
they deserve as quickly as possible.

ONGOING MODERNIZATION

    Finally, while not directly related to previous VA.gov issues, I 
would like to take this opportunity to address the recent notification 
concerning the VA.gov pension application interactive online form (VA 
Form 21P-527EZ) being temporarily unavailable from November 8, 2023, 
through January 31, 2024. Leveraging PACT Act funding, VA is updating 
the interactive form to ensure it matches the current paper version of 
the form. The current interactive form did not match the paper form, so 
based on end user feedback we decided to temporarily disable the 
interactive form until it has been updated to avoid unnecessary 
confusion or processing delays. Veterans, their families, and 
accredited representatives who attempt to apply online are now 
redirected to download the current form and submit a completed 
application using VA QuickSubmit, AccessVA's online alternative to fax 
or mail documents to the centralized mail portal. All Veterans with a 
pension application in progress via the discontinued application will 
automatically have an Intent to File (ITF) saved to their record to 
preserve the earliest possible effective date.

CONCLUSION

    Chairman Rosendale, Ranking Member Cherfilus-McCormick and Members 
of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
today. As previously mentioned, VA.gov is the digital front door, and 
Veterans need to have confidence and trust their benefits and services 
are available, accurate, and secure. I look forward to continuing 
working with this Subcommittee to address our greatest priorities and 
the challenges we face in our digital transformation. This concludes my 
testimony, and I look forward to answering your questions.

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