[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                       VETERANS SERVING VETERANS:
                        THE IMPACT OF AMERICA'S
                         BUSINESSES ON VETERAN
                       EMPLOYMENT AND OPPORTUNITY

=======================================================================





                                HEARING

                               before the

                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                       TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2023
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-37
                               __________

       Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs






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                    Available via http://govinfo.gov                  
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                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 

54-348                     WASHINGTON : 2024 















                    
                     COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS

                     MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman

AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN,       MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking 
  American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman      Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan               JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina           MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana   CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa       FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina    SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK, 
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida             Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin         CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO, 
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas                 Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona              MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona                DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas                    GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia        NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois

                       Jon Clark, Staff Director
                  Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director 
                  
                  
                  
                  

Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public 
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also 
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the 
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare 
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process 
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce 
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the 
current publication process and should diminish as the process is 
further refined. 














                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              ----------                              

                       TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Mike Bost, Chairman................................     1
The Honorable Mark Takano, Ranking Member........................     2

                               WITNESSES
                               
                                Panel 1

Mr. Tommy Jones, Senior Director, Military and Veterans Affairs, 
  Walmart........................................................     4

Mr. Eric Eversole, President, Hiring Our Heroes..................     5

Mr. Michael McCoy, Veteran Recruitment, Verizon..................     7

Ms. Erin Izen, Senior Director, Workforce Programs, Home Depot...     9

                                Panel 2

Mr. Joe Gelardi, President and Chief Executive Officer, Vectrona, 
  LLC............................................................    42

Mr. Chris Maynor, Owner, Daniel Deans............................    44

                                APPENDIX 
                                
                    Prepared Statements Of Witnesses

Mr. Tommy Jones Prepared Statement...............................    55
Mr. Eric Eversole Prepared Statement.............................    58
Mr. Michael McCoy Prepared Statement.............................    71
Ms. Erin Izen Prepared Statement.................................    74
Mr. Joe Gelardi Prepared Statement...............................    90
Mr. Chris Maynor Prepared Statement..............................    96

 
                       VETERANS SERVING VETERANS:
                        THE IMPACT OF AMERICA'S
                         BUSINESSES ON VETERAN
                       EMPLOYMENT AND OPPORTUNITY

                              ----------                              

                       TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2023

                    Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
                             U.S. House of Representatives,
                                                   Washington, D.C.
    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m., in 
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Mike Bost 
(chairman of the committee) presiding.
    Present: Representatives Bost, Bergman, Rosendale, Miller-
Meeks, Murphy, Franklin, Van Orden, Luttrell, Ciscomani, Crane, 
Self, Kiggans, Takano, Brownley, Levin, Pappas, Mrvan, 
Cherfilus-McCormick, Deluzio, McGarvey, Ramirez, Landsman, and 
Budzinski.

            OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE BOST, CHAIRMAN

    The Chairman. Good morning. The committee will come to 
order.
    First off, I want to welcome our witnesses to today's 
hearing. Today we will recognize the positive impact the 
veteran community continues to have on the United States 
economy, which is a fitting tribute, as just last week, we 
celebrated National Veteran-Owned Small Business Week.
    Now, our veterans have sacrificed for the protection of 
this great Nation by serving in uniform, and we owe them and 
their families a debt that we could never fully repay. We as a 
Nation can put meaning behind ``Thank you for your service'' by 
doing our part to ensure that veterans have access to the 
American dream after they hang up their uniforms, which is 
exactly what we will be discussing today.
    The purpose of this hearing is to acknowledge the important 
role American businesses and veteran-owned small businesses 
have in empowering veterans and creating economic opportunity. 
Thousands of companies, both big and small, have had great 
success in hiring veterans over the past decade.
    As most of you know, before I came to Congress, I ran a 
family owned trucking business. During that time, I had the 
pleasure of knowing, as a young man, even my father and 
grandfather, we hired people from the Second World War that 
worked for us for most their lives, from Korean that worked for 
us for most their lives, Vietnam that worked most their lives, 
and we will continue that--my brother continues that tradition 
today. When we had veterans apply for the positions, let me 
tell you, our company, I always made sure to give them the 
opportunity to thrive, as did my grandfather and father, 
because as a veteran myself, I knew the servant leader's heart 
ingrained in the veteran does not all of a sudden go away once 
they no longer wear the uniform.
    Research by the Institute of Veterans and Military Families 
show that veterans possess exceptional team-building skills and 
are highly trusted by colleagues in the workplace. We have seen 
this firsthand, the way our veterans hire--a way a veteran hire 
can benefit in any business. Veteran-owned businesses have only 
strengthened the American economy. Over 3 million Americans are 
employed by 321,000 veteran-owned businesses in the United 
States. Together, these companies contribute $926 billion to 
the economy. That is an incredible investment, and the 
industry's veterans manage to span from tech companies to 
construction, agriculture, defense, and more.
    Over 74 percent of businesses are founded by a veteran 
rather than being purchased or inherited. Making sure veterans 
can start a business and succeed as owners has long been a 
priority of our committee, and it is a personal priority of 
mine as well since I have been in Congress.
    Now, without veterans in the workforce, America would not 
be a world leader in innovation and economic growth. We are so 
grateful to have some of those corporations who hire veterans 
and personal veterans who own small business here with us 
today, including one from my own hometown. I want to thank you 
for your service and for your continued to serve your community 
after you have left the service to build the economy.
    I am eager to hear from our witnesses on the importance of 
hiring veterans and how we can increase opportunities for 
veterans during their transition to civilian life. I am also 
eager to hear how we can make it easier for companies and small 
businesses to be in a position to hire veterans. This means 
enacting pro-growth policies that are often at odds with the 
economy and the economic decisions that are made by the Biden 
administration at this time, and that we have been stifling 
that innovation.
    With that, I want to take--or recognize Ranking Member 
Takano for his opening statement.

        OPENING STATEMENT OF MARK TAKANO, RANKING MEMBER

    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Chairman Bost, and thank you 
for holding this hearing on the impact of America's businesses 
on veteran employment and opportunity.
    Before we begin, it is impossible to discuss employment 
without addressing recent news in the automotive industry. I 
would like to take a moment to congratulate the United Auto 
Workers (UAW) on a truly groundbreaking agreement with Ford, 
Stellantis, and General Motors. Thousands of veterans are 
members of the UAW, and in the words of President Biden when he 
visited the picket line, ``You deserve what you have earned, 
and you have earned a hell of a lot more than you are getting 
paid now.''
    The agreement reached last week is a massive win for the 
UAW, American workers, veterans, and the entire United States. 
Unions are good for America and unions are good for veterans.
    Now to the topic at hand. The Biden economy has pulled this 
country from what some believed was an inevitable recession. 
Unemployment is down, wages are up, spending is up, and 
inflation has cooled since the months immediately after the 
pandemic. Does that mean everything is perfect? Also, in the 
words of President Biden, come on, man.
    No, more work is needed. We need to raise wages for 
veterans in the workplace to reflect the wage gains of the 1 
percent and company executives. Strengthen employment 
protection so Guard and Reserve members do not have to worry if 
their jobs will exist when they return from serving their 
country. Ensure that opportunities for veterans of all 
backgrounds are fair. Simplify the process for veterans to 
translate their skills in the military into the marketplace, 
and make it easier for veterans to start their own businesses.
    Chairman Bost, you and I have served together on this 
committee for more than 8 years now. Can you believe that? 
Eight years, oh, my God. I want to thank you for introducing 
our resolution honoring this week as Veteran Employment Week. 
While we may have our differences from time to time, and while 
there are certain issues on we will never see eye to eye, one 
thing I have appreciated about working with you is that, 
whenever possible, we have done our best to find common ground. 
I think we can both agree that the goals I have outlined are 
worth pursuing in this committee.
    Today we have the opportunity to talk about some of this 
country's largest employers, along with some veteran small 
business owners, and some from your own district. Veterans, on 
average, earn more than their civilian counterparts. I hope we 
can learn why veterans' wages are not growing as fast as 
nonveterans. I hope we can also learn what employers think of 
diversity initiatives. I believe we are at our best when we 
harness the power of our diversity to spur creativity and 
innovation. However, we know that some in Congress have decried 
diversity goals and initiatives, so I look forward to hearing 
if employers feel the same way.
    Further, I want to learn more about how employers treat 
Guard and Reserve members when their requirements to our 
Nation's defense conflicts with their employee 
responsibilities. In preparing for this hearing, our staff 
attempted to find a large employer of veterans that does not 
use forced arbitration agreements. However, call after call 
yielded proof that forced arbitration agreements are rampant in 
the workplace, forcing servicemembers to choose between 
employment and upholding their duty to our Nation, something I 
find truly shameful.
    In our Economic Opportunity (EO) subcommittee hearing 
earlier this year, it was asked, how common are forced 
arbitration agreements for servicemembers? It turns out 
extremely common. I hope our witnesses before us can explain 
how exactly their company uses forced arbitration and what that 
means for Guard and Reserve members.
    We have the chance to make real change in employment rights 
for servicemembers, and I hope this serves as a wake-up call. 
It is time to ban forced arbitration agreements for Guard and 
Reserve members, and I look forward to engaging with our 
witnesses this afternoon.
    Thank you, Chairman Bost, and I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Takano. Now I will 
introduce the first panel of witnesses.
    First we have Mr. Tommy Jones. He is a senior director of 
military and veterans affairs at Walmart. We also have Eric 
Eversole, president of Hiring Our Heroes; Mr. Michael McCoy, 
who leads veterans recruitment at Verizon; and Ms. Erin Izen, 
senior director of workforce programs at Home Depot.
    Right now, I would like the witnesses, if you would, please 
stand and raise your right hand.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    The Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, you may sit down. Let 
the record reflect that all witnesses answered in the 
affirmative.
    Mr. Jones, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening statement.

                    STATEMENT OF TOMMY JONES

    Mr. Jones. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and 
esteemed members of the House Committee of Veterans' Affairs, I 
am honored to join you today as an Army veteran and the leader 
of Walmart's military programs. I am grateful for your 
leadership and partnership in honoring our Nation's veterans 
and for the opportunity to share the work we are doing to 
support military families and create opportunities for veterans 
and military spouses.
    At Walmart supporting those who serve has been ingrained in 
our DNA from since the very beginning. Our founder, Sam Walton, 
served in the United States Army in World War II, and his 
values continue to define our company. We are immensely 
grateful for our Nation's veterans and the values they bring. 
Our goal is to support veterans and military families during 
and after their service.
    Over a decade ago, we announced our Veterans Welcome Home 
Commitment to hire 250,000 veterans by 2020. Since then, we 
have hired more than 533,000 veterans and military spouses and 
promoted nearly 64,000 to roles of greater responsibility and 
higher pay.
    Building on this success, we launched Find a Future in June 
2020. This tool guides military related prospects through an 
audit of their current skills, experience, and education. It 
helps them explore a wide range of future possibilities, 
including employment, education, entrepreneurship, and provides 
a roadmap to achieve their goals. After more than 3-1/2 million 
engagements with members of the military community with Find a 
Future, we are expanding that platform to serve associates in 
our own community.
    Our Career Fellowship Program, in partnership with the U.S. 
Chamber of Commerce and Hiring Our Heroes initiatives offers 
hiring summit and fellowship opportunities to veterans and 
their families.
    Support for our servicemembers comes in many forms. Our 
Military Family Promise guarantees a job at a nearby Walmart 
store or Sam's Club for all military personnel and including 
military spouses employed by the company who must Permanent 
Change of Station (PCS) due to military orders. Additionally, 
we provide free counseling sessions, coaching, and digital 
wellness tools to help our associates manage stress, build 
resilience, and access the care they need.
    Walmart has established key relationships with 
organizations focused on supporting those who have served, 
including with Merging Vets and Players which provides veterans 
a new team to assist with transition, personal development, and 
a sense of belonging. Another is Sheep Dog Impact Assistance, 
which offers veterans opportunities for physical activities, 
peer-to-peer training, and volunteer opportunities for 
continued service.
    Once associates are hired at Walmart, they have access to 
one of the world's largest learning ecosystems, including 
Walmart Academy and Live Better U. These programs have helped 
thousands of associates build their skills that they desire 
through training and education offerings.
    As a founding member of the Coalition of Veteran-Owned 
Businesses, Walmart supports veteran-owned business across the 
U.S. Our annual Open Call Event provides entrepreneurships the 
opportunity to meet Walmart and potentially get their products 
on our shelves or online. In fact, we spent $1.2 billion with 
veteran-owned suppliers in Fiscal Year 2023.
    To strengthen our support of veterans in their community, 
Walmart and Walmart Foundation have invested $44 million since 
2011 in job training, education, and community-based 
initiatives. Our aim is to build a skill-abased talent 
marketplace that recognizes the skills veterans bring, unlock 
opportunities, and accelerate the economic mobility in the 
civilian sector. To that end, we have supported organizations 
like Hire Heroes USA and Institute for Veterans and Military 
Families (IVMF) at Syracuse University as well as The 
Manufacturing Institute.
    As we look to the future, we recognize the potential to 
address remaining barriers to successful transition from 
military service to civilian life. Collaboration and a shared 
vision will be critical and crucial in achieving this. We 
remain dedicated to the work and look forward to evolving and 
growing our approach to best serve veterans and military 
families.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share how Walmart is 
supporting military and veteran communities through employment, 
education, entrepreneurship, well-being programs, and our 
philanthropic efforts. I extend my deepest respect and 
gratitude to my fellow veterans for their sacrifice and 
service, and I am here to answer any questions that you may 
have. Thank you.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Tommy Jones Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Jones. The written statement 
of Mr. Jones will be entered into the hearing record.
    Mr. Eversole, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening remarks.

                   STATEMENT OF ERIC EVERSOLE

    Mr. Eversole. Good morning, Chairman Bost, Ranking Member 
Takano, and distinguished members of this committee. My name is 
Eric Eversole and I am the president of Hiring Our Heroes and a 
vice president at the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. I am also a 
retired Navy captain.
    As many of you know, Hiring Our Heroes was created when 
there was a national crisis in veteran unemployment. In 2011, 
we had hundreds of thousands of servicemembers, many of them 
who were young, returning home from war zones, and they were 
finding an awful job market. Working with the Chamber's vast 
network of state and local chambers, Hiring Our Heroes led a 
national coalition of companies who were committed to making 
veteran hiring a priority. I am honored to be on the panel 
today with several of those companies.
    Thanks to these companies and our collective efforts, much 
has changed over the last decade. Veteran unemployment is at a 
record low. For vets in each category across the unemployment 
spectrum, their unemployment rates are lower than their 
civilian counterparts.
    We have seen a shift, a paradigm shift, in how 
servicemembers transition from the military. Gone are the days 
where they simply were sent home to fend for themselves, where 
many would spend months, if not years, trying to find 
meaningful careers.
    Our country has been investing in their futures by ensuring 
that they have the right tools and resources prior to their 
transition, and it is working. Events like our Career Summits, 
which provide training and networking opportunities as well as 
connections to military ready employers, are an important part 
of this pretransition work.
    We have seen unprecedented success from our Fellows 
Program, the largest Department of Defense (DOD) SkillBridge 
Program in the country, which provides internships to 
transitioning servicemembers with one of more than 700 
companies across the country. That program's impact is clear 
and unequivocal. This year alone, we will host more than 2,400 
active duty fellows; 85 percent of those fellows will receive 
job offers within 90 days, and the average starting salary is 
more than $110,000. Our data also shows, our internal data 
shows, that it will help recruit the next generation of all 
volunteers.
    While some may question the need for these programs, given 
the labor market and the military's current recruiting 
challenges, that would be a tremendous mistake. The best way to 
recruit the next generation of all volunteers is to ensure that 
the current generation not only survives, but thrives in their 
civilian career opportunities. These programs accomplish that.
    One last very important note. Much like our country faced a 
national crisis with veteran unemployment in 2011, we are 
facing a similar crisis with military spouses today. The 
inability of military spouses to find and maintain careers is 
forcing too many military families to rely upon a single source 
of income and is creating economic peril for those families, 
both in the near term and in the long term. It is causing 
servicemembers to choose between serving their country and 
leaving.
    Much like we did in 2011, we must come together as a Nation 
and make military spouse employment a top priority. We believe 
that the Military Spouse Career Accelerator Program, which was 
recently enacted as part of last year's National Defense 
Authorization Act, is an important step in that direction. As 
some of you may know, that is a pilot program that provides 
military spouses with a 12-week internship opportunities with 
host companies across the country, and DOD pays a stipend for 
those military spouses to participate in that program. While 
the program has only been going on for 10 months now, we have 
hosted more than 400 military spouses in those internships. 
Much like the Fellows Program and SkillBridge, we are seeing an 
80-plus percent offer rate and average salaries of 
approximately $70,000.
    These programs work and they are a step in the right 
direction, and we are certainly looking forward to continuing 
these efforts for military spouses.
    Once again, Chairman Bost and Ranking Member Takano and the 
members of this committee, thank you for today's opportunity, 
and I look forward to answering your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Eric Eversole Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Eversole.
    Mr. McCoy, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

                   STATEMENT OF MICHAEL MCCOY

    Mr. McCoy. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and 
distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify on behalf of Verizon and the over 8,200 
veterans and more than 500 military spouses we are privileged 
to employ. I am honored to be here.
    My name is Michael McCoy, and I am the head of military 
affairs at Verizon. I am a proud third generation 
servicemember, serving as an officer in the Army National Guard 
since 2011. Serving our veterans is not just a job for me, it 
is my passion.
    Military service is an honor, but it presents unique 
challenges. For example, I was deployed when my wife was 6 
months pregnant and returned home when my son was 8 months old.
    The military is also all encompassing and becomes part of 
your identity. Military service cannot last forever. Few 
understand the magnitude of transition from military to 
civilian life. Verizon strives to make it as frictionless as 
possible. Today, I would like to share with you how we recruit 
and support veterans. At Verizon we believe that veterans make 
our company better.
    In addition to providing for our national defense, the U.S. 
military is the greatest job training program in the world. It 
cultivates individuals who are disciplined, skilled, thrive 
under pressure, making them ideal for a hypercompetitive 
communications industry. Military service imparts both hard and 
soft skills that translate into a variety of critical jobs at 
Verizon. We recruit pilots to fly drones for disaster response 
and engineers to build our best in class networks and protect 
them from attacks. For all of these reasons, we 
enthusiastically recruit, retain, and engage the military 
community.
    Verizon is proud to be recognized for this. We have been 
named the number one military-friendly company in the U.S. 
three times. We have also been ranked number one by Best for 
Vets and received numerous employer support and Guard and 
Reserve awards.
    Verizon relies on a three-pronged approach: recruit, 
retain, support. To attract separating servicemembers we host a 
web page for veterans and military spouses that provides 
information on needed skills and open positions within the 
company.
    Verizon also works with the Department of Defense programs 
such as SkillBridge and the Transition Assistance Program, TAP. 
Through SkillBridge, we provide separating military personnel 
with civilian work experience through internships and training 
during their last 180 days of service. Regarding the TAP 
program, we are working to expand our relationships with TAP 
centers, but we believe that TAP may be underresourced and 
there is an opportunity to expand their impact. For example, 
enabling virtual classes in addition to those in person would 
allow employers to reach more potential hires.
    Another valuable recruitment program is the Hiring Our 
Heroes Corporate Fellowship Program offered through HOH, which 
gives Verizon access to a broad pool of military talent. 
Through our partnership with the DOD and the U.S. Chamber, we 
have trained 215 servicemembers and hired 183. Ninety percent 
of these participants are still with Verizon today.
    Finally, we have strong partnerships with other career 
readiness veteran-serving organizations, namely 50 Strong and 
FourBlock. With over 100 VA-recognized veteran organizations, 
the amount of information can be overwhelming. Guidance and 
coordination from the VA could help filter what is most 
relevant.
    At Verizon, we believe that retaining our veteran employees 
is just as important as recruiting them. We do everything we 
can to ensure they are valued and supported. To give veterans a 
continued sense of camaraderie and the opportunity to serve 
others, we established an internal employee resource group 
called Veterans and Advocates Leading the Organization 
Responsibly (VALOR). This gives veterans a forum for support 
and career guidance. It also hosts volunteer projects that 
provide thousands of hours of veteran-focused community service 
annually. This includes raising awareness for the Affordable 
Connectivity Program, ACP, which provides eligible veterans 
with broadband service, a program we urge Congress to continue 
funding.
    In addition, we help veterans register and track changes 
for earned benefits. For example, this year we partnered with 
the VA's communications team to inform our veterans of the 
passage of the The Sergeant First Class Heath Robinson Honoring 
our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics (PACT) Act.
    Finally, for our employees in the National Guard Reserves, 
like myself, we provide a generous military leave policy, 
including gap pay for up to 36 months.
    In closing, I would like to thank you for holding this 
hearing. As the committee considers ways to advance 
opportunities for veterans, Verizon stands ready to work with 
you and support the men and women who have bravely served our 
country. I am happy to answer any questions you might have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Michael McCoy Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. McCoy.
    Ms. Izen, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

                     STATEMENT OF ERIN IZEN

    Ms. Izen. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and 
distinguished members of the House Committee on Veterans' 
Affairs, thank you for the opportunity to testify today.
    As a military spouse and mother of U.S. Marines who have 
separated from service, this topic is very close to my heart. 
With me today is Haley Weaver, the other apron in the room, who 
leads our Military Relations team, and she is also a military 
spouse.
    I am the senior director of Workforce Programs for the Home 
Depot, the world's largest home improvement retailer. Founded 
in 1979, The Home Depot operates more than 2,300 retail stores, 
distribution centers, and corporate facilities with over 
470,000 associates. We take pride in taking care of these 
associates. One example is the investment of approximately $1 
billion in annualized compensation increases for our frontline 
hourly associates announced earlier this year. Of those 
470,000, tens of thousands are veterans, National Guards, 
Reserves, and military spouses. You can often recognize them in 
the stores by the celebration badges on their aprons.
    We find that veterans acclimate well to our culture of 
service and inverted pyramid leadership approach and bring to 
our ranks tenured leadership, adaptability, resilience, and 
collaboration. Last year alone, we hired over 14,000 veterans. 
When veterans put on an apron, they also receive a military-
specific onboarding class, a veteran new hire coach, access to 
veteran-specific resources and benefits, and an invitation to 
participate in our Military Appreciation Resource Group.
    Our partnership with the Department of Defense's 
SkillBridge Program has allowed us to host over 150 
transitioning servicemembers since 2019. During their time with 
us, we provide hands-on experience for what it is like to work 
in corporate America, and each fellow has a host team and 
veteran mentor to learn from. Graduates of our program have 
gone on to become cybersecurity analysts, software engineers, 
project managers, and are even senior leaders in our stores and 
distribution centers.
    Programs like SkillBridge and Hiring Our Heroes provide 
invaluable access to top-tier talent emerging from the 
military. It is critical that the DOD and the military commands 
continue to support important transition programs to bridge the 
life from active duty to civilian careers.
    Recognizing that less than 7 percent of the U.S. population 
has served in the military, we developed training courses and 
reference guides for all hiring managers, HR professionals, and 
talent acquisition associates to ensure they know the value 
veterans bring to the company and can understand their unique 
capabilities.
    Furthermore, we have a range of policies supporting our 
military-affiliated associates and fostering their long-term 
career growth. To stand by our National Guard, Active Duty, and 
Reserve associates, we recently enhanced our military leave of 
absence (LOA) policy. This update includes a substantial full 
pay benefit for up to 7 consecutive days, complementing our 
existing supplemental pay policy, ensuring that associates who 
temporarily step away from their role at Home Depot receive the 
financial support that they deserve while serving our Nation. 
We also offer international LOA for spouses following their 
servicemember on an international deployment.
    To further support these military spouse associates, in 
2020, we created the military spouse job transfer policy. This 
program guarantees a job offer at one of our stores or supply 
chain locations when they relocate under their spouse's orders. 
With available positions across thousands of U.S. locations, we 
can provide a stable career across their moves.
    Looking outside our own hiring, we provide transition 
support for all veterans. This summer, we launched Mission 
Transition online. Created by veterans and for veterans, this 
series of courses is designed to empower servicemen and women 
and equip them with the soft skills necessary for a seamless 
transition, like translating their military experience into a 
civilian resume and the importance of branding and networking. 
These classes are free to the public and found on Home Depot's 
careers website.
    Turning to veteran communities, in 2011, The Home Depot 
Foundation recognized the growing crisis with veterans 
homelessness and pledged to invest half a billion dollars in 
veterans' causes. We are $475 million toward that goal and have 
improved or built more than 55,000 veterans homes and 
facilities. The Foundation also made a $50 million pledge to 
train the next generation of skilled tradespeople and help fill 
the growing skilled labor gap.
    The Foundation's military program, in partnership with Home 
Builders Institute and SkillBridge, is offered on 10 military 
installations, including Camp Pendleton in Congressman Levin's 
district. Over 3,000 transitioning servicemembers have 
graduated from this 12-week program equipped with industry-
recognized certifications and ready to start a new career in 
the trades.
    Beyond the Foundation's military program, The Home Depot 
also helps other veterans and others interested in working in 
the trades to start their careers, first through our free 
construction skills program and then by networking with our 
hiring professional customers to find a job in their area. More 
information on all of our Path to Pro workforce programs can be 
found at www.PathtoPro.com.
    We are proud to have been named a military-friendly 
employer, spouse employer, company and brand, as well as 
Forbes' Best Employer for Veterans, among other awards. As you 
can see, I take immense pride in representing a company that 
has held an unwavering commitment to military families and 
veterans of communities.
    Members of the committee, thank you for having us here 
today. I look forward to answering your questions.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Erin Izen Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Izen.
    We are now going to go to the time of questioning and I 
will yield myself 5 minutes.
    Mr. McCoy, you know, as supporters of veterans employment, 
what do you see, and this is a big question because that is one 
of the main reasons we are having this, what do you see as the 
biggest barriers to hiring veterans? How can this committee 
help improve the opportunities for veterans and eliminate these 
barriers?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question, Chairman. One of the 
barriers is aggregating veterans. We are elusive. None of us 
are currently wearing a uniform right now. How can you tell we 
are a veteran? Finding those veterans in our communities doing 
the work that they are doing is difficult.
    As several people have mentioned, only 7 percent of our 
population have served, so we work to find them wherever they 
are. We have been very successful with the Hiring Our Heroes 
program. We take part in every single opportunity that they 
offer. We go to military bases, Camp Pendleton, we go all 
across the country to find them.
    One of the things that could help us be more successful is 
having some type of employment coalition connection team at the 
TAP centers. Oftentimes finding somebody who you can work with 
is difficult.
    The Chairman. Have you found that some of, and this can go 
to any of you, have you found that we have some TAP programs 
that are more than willing to let you in and others that are 
not so willing? What problems do you face when they are not so 
willing?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you. That is a great question. What we see 
is everybody is stretched very thin. There are hundreds of 
servicemembers who are looking for opportunities to learn how 
to translate their skills, their experience, the time in the 
military, what that looks like, what a right resume looks like. 
We work with them to figure out how we can help supplement any 
of the work that they are doing by participating in career 
workshops. We are very active at military bases to help in 
those kinds of capacities, and we do that as much best we can 
to help servicemembers.
    The Chairman. Go ahead.
    Ms. Izen. I would say, seconding what he said, it is 
difficult for us sometimes to get onto the bases because there 
is quotas and maxes. If you are not the first there, sometimes 
we cannot get in. Then I would say the recruiting access for 
getting onto the base, too, can be different. It all depends 
kind of on the command, what they support, and who their 
network is. Having a central way for us to access those bases, 
like he mentioned, would be very helpful.
    Mr. Jones. Just add, the consistency, Mr. Chairman, of the 
turnover of those people that are working in the TAP offices, 
the different contracts that land those, also limit you to 
resources. There is not a consistent way to communicate with 
them. Even if you cannot get on the base, there should be a way 
to communicate with them on a regular basis, post job alerts or 
something to that effect.
    Mr. Eversole. Let me just add, Mr. Chairman, there is 
widespread inconsistency across the bases, which creates 
challenges for a lot of companies. I would say that this year 
in particular, maybe last year as well, given some of the 
recruiting challenges, it has been more difficult to access 
bases over the last couple of years because of that tension 
between retention and transition, and that is creating some 
problems for organizations like ours.
    The Chairman. I think you hit the nail on the head there 
because it is a case where it is not a natural reaction for DOD 
to try to encourage their servicemembers to leave. Okay. 
Especially at a time when recruitment is down and everything 
like that.
    Mr. Jones, when a veteran is hired by Walmart, what 
programs do they have access to on the day one that they can 
continue to grow as an employee?
    Mr. Jones. Great question, Mr. Chairman. We have LBU, Live 
Better University, and we have a training curriculum. It is 
state-of-the-art training. Zero dollars that costs, anything 
for them to be able to upskill, reskill and any certifications, 
focusing on--whether they want to focus on Science, Technology, 
Engineering, and Mathematics (STEM) education.
    In addition to that, we have the Find a Future platform 
that we have launched. That was initially focused externally. 
Now we are using that to upskill and reskill current employees. 
From day one, all of our servicemembers that join, to include 
our Guard and Reserve and military spouses, have access to 
that.
    The Chairman. Yes, I think each one of us know and 
understand that when our veterans leave their active service, 
whatever their particular Military Occupational Specialty 
(MOS), might not be something they can use in your company. 
Probably disarming bombs is probably not something that each of 
you need. The veterans themselves provide an opportunity, and I 
express this so much to everyone.
    We spend a lot of time in this committee because we have to 
deal with people who have been hurt and mentally or physically 
by the DOD. However, every veteran, and we got to make sure we 
stay focused on that, is a quality employee that will show up 
on time. This is mission-centered and is a great employee to 
hire. That is what I hope we will bring out today.
    My time has expired, and I will yield to the ranking 
member.
    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You heard me mention 
forced arbitration agreements undermining Uniformed Services 
Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) Protections for 
servicemembers in my opening statement. I would like to ask Mr. 
Jones whether Walmart uses forced arbitration agreements for 
currently serving Guard or Reserve members.
    Mr. Jones. Ranking Member Takano, that is something we do 
not participate in. We do not force or require arbitration to 
dispute USERRA concerns. We do not force them to sign anything, 
and we are in full support of the USERRA Act.
    Mr. Takano. Why don't you?
    Mr. Jones. I mean we believe in citizen-soldier 
partnerships. We understand that, you know, serving in the 
Guard and Reserves makes us better as a company. It is the 
diversity of our workforce. The work that they experience in 
our offices or in our front--our stores, they bring that to the 
military. Then their weekend drills and their weekend--and 
their week--two-week-a-year experience, they bring that back 
into the workforce.
    We value that from a diversity standpoint. The skills that 
they bring in is transferable.
    Mr. Takano. Well, speaking about diversity, I would like to 
know about Walmart's philosophy about Diversity Equity and 
Inclusion (DEI) programs and whether you embrace them and why.
    Mr. Jones. Absolutely. I mean, diversity--the stronger--we 
are stronger with diversity. I mean, we know that. We know that 
the military is one of the biggest foundations for us to pull 
talent from. It is the most diverse workforce out there, and so 
we value that. We know that, you know, every person matters, 
and we treat everybody the way they should be treated. We 
understand how impactful diversity is to our organization, and 
we promote that.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Mr. Jones.
    Mr. McCoy, same question. Does Verizon employ forced 
arbitration agreements?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question, Chairman--Ranking 
Member Takano. We work with our legal teams to ensure that we 
comply with the full rights and laws of USERRA. As a currently 
serving Guardsman, I understand how difficult it is to leave 
and to leave work in the middle of the week, at the end of the 
week. We do everything we can to ensure that we are completely 
complying with USERRA.
    As to our specific forced arbitration policy, my legal team 
will respond back with that of more detail.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you. Thank you. With regard to DEI 
and diversity initiatives, fully embracing it at Verizon?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question again. The diversity 
of the military is unmatched anywhere else in our workforce. We 
work actively to ensure that we are finding veterans wherever 
they are. We work with different groups. We look at different 
groups that aggregate veterans by how they identify wherever 
they are at geographically, wherever their heritage and lineage 
is. We work with all of those groups to ensure that we are 
actively finding the top talent in these groups to recruit them 
to Verizon, and then we work to retain and support them.
    Mr. Takano. It is not just with respect to veterans. You 
are looking for diversity in all different manner. Is that 
correct?
    Mr. McCoy. That is correct.
    Mr. Takano. Ms. Izen, could you comment about whether Home 
Depot uses forced arbitration agreements with current serving 
and Reserve members?
    Ms. Izen. In general, Home Depot does not have arbitration 
agreements in any of our employment contracts. In very rare 
cases, you might find them where we acquired companies, an 
agreement was already in place. In general, no.
    Mr. Takano. Okay. When you acquire companies, they may have 
in place arbitration agreements for Guard and Reserve members, 
but you do not employ them with your own employees?
    Ms. Izen. Correct.
    Mr. Takano. Can you comment as to why you do not?
    Ms. Izen. I cannot.
    Mr. Takano. Okay, fair enough. What about DEI diversity, 
equity, and----
    Ms. Izen. Yes. Home Depot has many DEI and equity programs. 
We fully embrace them. Veterans' causes are just one of them. 
We do a lot that is very impactful. I will give you one example 
from a veteran's perspective.
    I talked about our fellowships in my testimony. Seventy-two 
percent of the people that we have hosted through our 
fellowships are diverse by self-disclosure. We really feel 
because the military over-indexes on being diverse and 
overeducated, that when you hire those people, that is what you 
get when you hire veterans.
    Mr. Takano. Your DEI initiatives are not just focused on 
veterans, but----
    Ms. Izen. No.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. the full gamut from gender to----
    Ms. Izen. Yes.
    Mr. Takano [continuing]. ethnicity, race, all different 
backgrounds?
    Ms. Izen. Correct.
    Mr. Takano. Do you believe that--does Home Depot believe 
that diversity is actually a strength?
    Ms. Izen. I would say that we believe our associates of all 
types make us our strength. We have got all different genders, 
backgrounds, and we do support them through different DEI 
initiatives.
    Mr. Takano. Well, thank you, Ms. Izen. I yield back, Mr. 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member.
    Representative Franklin, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
panel for being here today. I appreciate everything that you 
all are doing, both in your professional capacities and also in 
your service to our country.
    Not to be overlooked, Ms. Izen, my wife would be--she would 
scold me if I did not acknowledge that the role you have as a 
military spouse and a mother is just as important and 
challenging and sacrificial as all the gentlemen there to your 
right, but also what you all do in your leadership roles for 
businesses throughout the country.
    Obviously, you guys are huge companies. You have a lot of 
assets to pour into this. I would tell you that there are 
hundreds of thousands of smaller businesses out there that are 
looking to your initiatives to figure out, what can we steal 
from those guys? What are the best practices? I can tell you, 
as a former veteran business owner, too, I would often look to 
the things that you all are doing to see is that something we 
could integrate?
    In the limited time we have, about 4 minutes, so about a 
minute for each of you, I would love to hear, with respect to 
attracting and retaining veteran workforce, what is the one 
thing, you know, I am sure you spend a lot of time thinking 
about how can we improve our deal, our programs, what is the 
one thing that you would either have us stop doing or do less 
of or start doing that we are not doing that would help your 
job be easier?
    Ms. Izen, I would like to start with you and just go down 
the line. Got probably about 45 seconds each.
    Ms. Izen. Gosh, it is hard to pick one and fit it in 45 
seconds.
    Mr. Franklin. Just one thing that is most impactful.
    Ms. Izen. One thing that would be really impactful for you 
guys is help making transition a priority in the commands. We 
have talked about how they have got a lot on their plates, they 
have got limited people. To be able to give up these people to 
do, like, a Hiring Our Heroes program, it is very difficult.
    We have had challenges where we have identified someone 
that wants to come to our fellowship program, makes it through 
our interview process, we are ready to bring them on, and then 
their command decides that they just cannot let them go. We 
lose that fellow, or we have even had them in our program get 
called back and get promoted, which is a good thing, but get 
pulled back out of the program. Making that transition and kind 
of protecting that time a priority would be very helpful, 
especially at the junior enlisted level.
    Mr. Franklin. We hear that frequently. Mr. McCoy.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. I would say one of 
the things that you could do to help us all would be to 
continue to talk about and support transition programs 
throughout all phases of a career. When we look at how we go to 
Air Force Specialty Codes (AFSCs), we go to MOS schools, all of 
the different professional military education that we go to, 
talking about what skills you are gaining when you go to those. 
That helps us build a repertoire throughout the course of our 
career that when we transition, we know we have built these 
skills, we know who we are, we understand what value we bring 
to the workforce, and can continue to talk about that. As my 
good friend, Sergeant Major of the Army Retired Tilly says, 
talk to those old veterans. We want to help.
    Mr. Franklin. Do you feel that they communicate those 
skills well when they are out there in the job force looking? I 
know we try to help them a lot through TAP and all, but 
translating military skills, whether it is ordinance disposal, 
to civilian skills, do they do a good job of that or can we do 
better to help them?
    Mr. McCoy. We could do better. It is hard sometimes, 
though, to talk about some of those very outside of the 
traditional civilian employment skills of how you translate it. 
it is talking about the generalities of leadership, time 
management, success that you have had, that helps.
    Mr. Franklin. Great. Thank you. Mr. Jones.
    Mr. Jones. Sir, I do not want to duplicate efforts, but, 
you know, I think the SkillBridge program and programs like 
Hiring Our Heroes Fellowship Program, those programs give a 
preview and help educate the civilian population on the skills 
that servicemembers bring. It is an on-the-job training program 
that allows them to really understand.
    You know, it is really easy to focus on hard skill. Right? 
Cybersecurity is cybersecurity. As a first sergeant leading a 
communications team and moving into talent acquisition, you 
know, that is my soft skills that allowed me to do that. Right? 
You do not get that, you know, reading a resume.
    I think there is an opportunity to really focus on how do 
we talk about servicemembers of this generation? You know, 
World War II is known as the Greatest Generation. I would say 
that this generation is the most educated military workforce we 
ever had. What are we doing to promote that? I think there is 
an opportunity there. We do that through these programs that we 
have. Right? Getting it out into the communities, into these 
civilian corporations. That really gives them a good 
understanding and peek behind the curtain to understand, you 
know, what this talent really is about. We chose to serve in 
the military for a purpose.
    Mr. Franklin. Okay. Mr. Eversole.
    Mr. Eversole. Thank you, sir, for that question. Very 
quickly, I think we need to support, bolster, and protect 
SkillBridge. The majority, after doing this for a decade, the 
majority of servicemembers that we serve and we see come out, 
they are relying heavily on their soft skills when they come 
out, their leadership, their resiliency. Those are the hardest 
things to show, you know, show to a potential employer. I can 
put that I am a great leader on my resume, but nobody is going 
to buy it until they actually see it in the workforce.
    To protect these servicemembers and these SkillBridge 
opportunities allows them to showcase their skill sets in a 
work environment and allows them to get hired and brought in at 
the right level, which helps with retention and all the other 
things that go along with employment.
    Mr. Franklin. Great. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Ms. Brownley, you were now recognized.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that.
    I was going to go down the line of mandatory arbitration, 
but I am going to switch gears here since the ranking member 
has asked that. I will focus on gender pay, equal pay.
    I mean, one thing about the military, there are a lot of 
good things about the military, but one really good thing about 
the military is that there is equal pay amongst men and women 
within the military. They come out of the military and the Pew 
Research Center did polling to say that we are still falling 
behind by an average of $7,000 of a pay differential between 
women veterans and male veterans.
    My question really to all of you, you know, what are your 
organizations doing to eliminate the gender pay gap across the 
board, regardless actually of veteran status?
    Mr. Jones. Thank you, Ms. Congressman. I think that we are 
always evaluating our processes and evaluating our 
compensation. Recently, we have done a reevaluation of our 
compensation, and we will always continue to do that to make 
sure that, one, from a pay area and from a skills base that we 
are paying accordingly. I think that that is something that is 
always top of mind. We are paying our associates based off of 
the qualifications they bring into the organization, not based 
off their gender.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you. Mr. McCoy.
    Mr. McCoy. Yes, thank you for the question. Not to repeat 
what Mr. Jones said, but we agree. We are working to make sure 
that when we work with servicemembers of both genders, we are 
working with them to make sure they understand the skills and 
experience they bring to the table. They are selecting the 
right level of position, and they are articulating their skills 
and experience in a way that helps them ensure that they are 
getting the job that is the best fit for them. That allows for 
maximum compensation.
    Ms. Brownley. Very good. I will say this Pew Research 
report also stated that women veterans are getting paid more 
than women civilians, and likewise for male veterans versus 
male citizens.
    I guess, you know, the question is, when you say, well, it 
is about their abilities and so forth and so on. You know, to 
me, it seems as though what is really happening is the people 
coming in from the military are more qualified, therefore, 
getting a higher pay than their male or female counterparts.
    Mr. Jones. Yes. I would just like to add, I think some of 
the programs allow for that, you know, long understanding of 
it. You know, you do an interview process that may be three or 
four interviews, and you are looking at a resume to base a 
decision off that. We try to focus on making sure that we have 
the right pay areas for each one of those.
    As you start to be able to evaluate and understand the 
additional skills that that person brings into an organization, 
when you have a program like the Fellowship Program, where you 
have a 90-day evaluation of that person, you are understanding 
a little bit more level of detail of their skills. Therefore, 
it allows you to bring that, too, when you come to the offer 
process, when you go to the compensation and asking them, you 
know, this person brings these additional skill sets that we 
did not see on their resume. Based off our evaluation of this 
personnel, you know, we have the ability to give them more 
compensation based off the experiences that they have. I think 
that is really important.
    Ms. Izen. I will comment, too. In addition to what he said, 
I think it is important to note not just what they get in the 
initial wage. It is also the ongoing investment that companies 
make to make sure they have a best associate experience, so 
benefits, bonuses, job and career development. We see that at 
Home Depot, especially in our stores. Ninety percent of our 
leaders started as hourly associates. Even though they may come 
in at one level, it is also helping them advance and move 
quickly based on the capabilities that they have.
    Ms. Brownley. Thank you for that. I think the data that I 
am speaking of incorporates, you know, all of--the full package 
as well.
    I just have a few seconds left, so I just wanted to ask, 
you know, I commend all of you for reaching out to our veteran 
population for their employment. I also commend you for hiring 
disabled veterans as well. I am just wondering, what are you 
doing in terms of accessing more disabled veterans to 
accommodate them either at work or their ability to work from 
home?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. We have a lot of 
accessibility. We--service dogs, equipment, whatever that 
needs, we work with them to find the right solution.
    Mr. Jones. I will just add, on day one, we are introduced 
to the--during the interview process, we talk about 
accessibility, but on day one, they are introduced to our 
accessibility team. Anybody that has a need that to be able to 
better allow them to perform their duties at work, we are going 
to accommodate them to best of our ability.
    Ms. Brownley. My time is up. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Ms. Brownley.
    Dr. Miller-Meeks, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to 
thank the chair for having a hearing on something that reflects 
positively on our veterans, and that is the tremendous 
attributes that they have that they bring into the workplace. 
Often we are focused on mental health or suicide or Post-
Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), and we get this thought that 
all veterans are like that. As a veteran, I am just going to 
say I really appreciate that we are talking about the positive 
attributes of veterans.
    One of the things that our state of Iowa did, I was 
director of Public Health, so I was instrumental in this with 
our Governor at that time, Governor Branstad, to do a home-
based Iowa initiative. Our home-based Iowa--you are nodding 
your heads, you know very well of the program--was precisely to 
get veterans employed.
    Along that same time, what we also did was to have no state 
income tax on military pensions. That is helped attract more 
veterans to our state, and we are delighted to have them.
    For my part, it was working with licensure and licensure 
laws, both for veterans, recognizing their training within the 
military, but also veteran spouses.
    This question is for Mr. Jones. What ways can the 
Department of Defense and the Department of Veterans affairs 
better prepare our servicemembers to be successful in your 
company, or the other panelists, or companies--or a similar one 
as they transition from military to civilian life?
    Mr. Jones. Thank you, Ms.--thank you for your service.
    There is many ways that I think we can--you all can help 
us. We touched on it a little bit. Really focusing on educating 
them left of transition, right, allowing them to understand 
where their skills are best utilized.
    I think we talked about hard skills and soft skills. I 
think about the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery 
(ASVAB). Right? When I joined the military, I took the ASVAB, 
and I had no idea that I would be good at as a combo guy for 20 
years in the Army. Right? Twenty years later, if I would have 
reverse engineered that and took the ASVAB on a way out, that 
might paint the picture of what I could be now, all the skills 
that I learned.
    Again, Michael talked about, we are the best trained 
workforce in the world. We have the best training organization, 
the best leadership training. Right. Reassessing those is, I 
think, the biggest piece of doing it and left of transition is 
really important.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you.
    Mr. McCoy, in your testimony, you mentioned that Verizon 
has a special dispensation for employees who serve in the 
National Guard and Reserve. Could you elaborate on that?
    Mr. McCoy. Yes. Thank you for the question. Thank you as 
well for your service. Home Base Iowa, good job.
    We have the opportunity to make sure that we are asking 
servicemembers, whether they are currently serving or they are 
veterans, to have a self-identified, in that we then work with 
them to make sure that they understand, hey, when I go out on 
military leave, it is not a bad thing. The military gap pay 
provides the opportunity to cover the--up to the Verizon base 
salary compared to the base salary, so we are talking base to 
base in the military. This does not account for any kind of 
special pays or flight or any of those other things. That makes 
sure that they are full when they are gone, that if their 
military pay is much lower, they would be made whole.
    My last deployment, I had an individual who was a Chief 
Technology Officer (CTO) at his company. He was an E-5. He 
could not deploy. He would have lost his house.
    You know, making sure that we find ways to keep our 
Guardsmen and Reservists in uniform helps our Nation.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Thank you for that.
    Ms. Izen, first of all, I really appreciate my 10 percent 
discount as a veteran at Home Depot, so I am just going to 
throw that out there. Does Home Depot partner with the VA and 
the Department of Labor? What recommendations would you have 
for improving opportunities for transitioning servicemembers to 
connect with civilian employers?
    Ms. Izen. Yes, we certainly partner with Department of 
Labor. We have a lot of partnerships, including SkillBridge and 
Hiring Our Heroes, across the way. I would say keeping those 
partnerships, making sure Congress supports them like we have 
been talking about, is critical.
    I would also say, and we touched on this a little bit, the 
hard skills versus the soft skills. Usually when we say soft 
skills, people think, oh, they need to know how to write the 
resume or how to do the interview, but it is really being able 
to talk through skills--you know, Chairman Bost mentioned an 
artillery person. My husband was a tanker. Talking about how 
when you are a tanker, what does that mean when you come to the 
civilian workforce? He is now a middle school teacher. 
Translating tanker to middle school teacher is not something 
that generally a class is going to teach you how to do or that 
you are going to get from a military skills translator. Making 
sure that we are giving enough in those classes to talk through 
some of those things so that they can fully articulate their 
transition would be very helpful.
    Ms. Miller-Meeks. Even though it has been a while since I 
have been in military school, I can readily see how a tank 
commander would be able to navigate middle school.
    With that, thank you to our panelists. Thank you, Mr. Char. 
I yield back my time.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Miller-Meeks.
    Mr. Levin.
    Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank the ranking 
member. I thank you, gentlemen, for making this Veteran 
Employment Week. I was telling staff in our Economic 
Opportunity Subcommittee, every week is Veteran Employment 
Week, but nonetheless, very grateful.
    Grateful also to the chairman of the Economic Opportunity 
Subcommittee, Mr. Van Orden. I was honored to get to chair that 
subcommittee myself for 4 years. We are going to continue 
working together to do all we can to try to get every veteran a 
great job.
    I am also thankful to all of you for the work you are doing 
at Camp Pendleton. I am hopeful, as I heard about base access, 
that you have all the access you need at Camp Pendleton. I saw 
a kind of nod that way, so maybe we could speak after. You 
could speak with my staff after to see if we can do anything to 
help you in that regard.
    I wanted to ask you about making sure that we are hiring 
enlisted and officers and that we are giving both the time and 
attention necessary. I think everybody that serves has unique 
skills, experiences, aspirations, and I think it is our duty as 
a grateful Nation to make sure everybody has a chance to 
succeed.
    Sometimes our enlisted servicemembers are overlooked. I 
have seen that, and that is despite the valuable skills and 
valuable life experiences they are bringing to the table.
    I will start with Mr. Jones. In your company's veteran 
recruitment work, and I was very impressed to hear about what 
you are doing, how do you ensure that enlisted veterans 
specifically have opportunities both in the retail side and 
then in the higher paying corporate jobs?
    Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Congressman. I appreciate that. I 
think what better commitment and what better example is Walmart 
hiring as their senior military personnel an enlisted guy? 
Right. I think that that is an example of the commitment.
    Mr. Levin. We did not plan this in advance.
    Mr. Jones. It was not planned. I text messaged you, but it 
did not come through. No, I think, you know, we really focus on 
all levels of skills. I think that is the narrative in the 
civilian sector that, West Point--you think about the 
academies, that is your only way, or the Reserve Officers' 
Training Corps (ROTC), and that is the exposure that people get 
because those are usually in positions of authority and you 
hear that.
    Again, it is storytelling, internal storytelling of the 
personnel that are inside of your company and understanding 
those people and telling their stories. So-and-so was an 
infantryman, now is a truck driver. So-and-so was a, you know, 
a medic and now is leading an IT as a project manager. Internal 
storytelling, I think, is the most critical thing that we can 
do not only to educate the civilian population, but for the 
other veterans in our organization to stand up and be counted 
and really pay it forward to those others. Right.
    We see a lot of that, a lot of referrals from those types 
of actions. Right. They are proud of their service after we 
tell that story and they bring the next person on. That is how 
we have really been focusing on it here, sir.
    Mr. Levin. Appreciate that. Please keep at it.
    Ms. Izen, I want to ask about SkillBridge. I have noticed 
that participation rates in SkillBridge are lower for enlisted 
than for officers. Curious if you know in your company's 
SkillBridge program what percentage of participants are 
enlisted versus officers.
    Ms. Izen. I do not have the exact stat. I will tell you, it 
is harder to get the junior enlisted. The commands are less 
likely to give someone who has not had 20 years in the military 
the time away toward the end of their time with us, and so they 
are harder to find.
    We have stood up programs specifically focused on the 
junior enlisted. We have a program to become a tool tech that 
is in our rental centers. We have a program for our IT help 
desk. We have a program for store leadership in the department 
supervisor level.
    Our biggest challenge is finding the people to come be in 
the program, especially with servicemembers trying to 
relocation. That makes it hard, too, because if they are 
finishing their time in, you know, Virginia, but they want to 
move to California, the relocations across can sometimes be 
difficult with the SkillBridge program as well. It is actually 
just finding the people and getting them into the program seems 
to be harder.
    I will say, too, with retail, and I am sure Walmart can 
appreciate this as well, 1 in 12 veterans work in retail, but 1 
in 4 people in the United States work in retail. Veterans just 
do not think of retail as a place that I can go and have a 
second career. Even though, as I mentioned before, 90 percent 
of Home Depot's leadership in the store is started as hourly 
associates. They just do not think of it as a place to go. They 
think of it as a cashier.
    We could use help in making sure that servicemembers 
understand the breadth of opportunities in front of them, too. 
It is not just that they have to go out and find logistics, if 
they were doing logistics in the military. Their skill set can 
translate across a wide range of industries.
    Mr. Levin. Very much appreciate that answer. I think you 
have our commitment. We are going to do all we can to continue 
to improve TAP to be responsive to, you know, everybody across 
the board, enlisted and officers alike.
    I am out of time, but let me know about Camp Pendleton, 
will you, please? I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Levin.
    General Bergman, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Izen, do you have an actual tool belt on that orange 
apron?
    Ms. Izen. Not on this one, but the one I actually wear in 
the stores, yes, it is full.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay. Well, one of my proudest possessions, 
actually, I have a couple of them, each from the Home Depot 
stores in my district, signed by the veterans there. I, like 
Dr. Miller-Meeks, thank you for the 10 percent discount. I 
decided to invest some of my grandkids' inheritance in it.
    You know, to the point here, Mr. Chairman, thanks for 
holding the hearing, and thank you for being here.
    What I noticed in your initial testimony was the subject of 
access at the bases. I think we might have a rare opportunity 
here to maybe take this hearing as a group over to Armed 
Services at some point and military personnel, because roughly 
just under 70 percent of the people that you are going to hire 
are still committed to the individual Ready Reserve under their 
8-year contract.
    When you think about access to the bases, when you think 
about who is the target market, if you will, for your 
recruitment and hiring, when they leave Active Duty at Camp 
Pendleton, or pick your fort or pick your Naval base or your 
Air Force base, they still have a commitment to the Individual 
Ready Reserve (IRR).
    My question to you is, have you all looked into what the 
different services might do as far as they maintain contact 
with the individual Ready Reserve? Sometimes there is IRR 
musters, other things. Anybody got any thoughts on that? Any 
background or experience?
    Mr. Jones. Mr. Congressman, I would say that I am not aware 
of anything that we have done with IIR. In my experience, in my 
previous experience, I think it is a great point. It is 
something we should look into. I think the access still is 
going to be limited.
    We have challenges right now reaching servicemembers in our 
own companies. I think accessing them externally is going to--
--
    Mr. Bergman. Well, when you think about, here you have 
these largely young men and women, whether it be officer and 
enlisted, who have been in pretty intense military engagement 
since they put the uniform on, and now they are in a transition 
phase, some of them are going to be looking for work 
immediately, others not so much. I would suggest to you that 
as--we, as Veterans' Affairs Committee, with that second stage, 
you know, afterwards, after that initial 8-year commitment has 
been fulfilled, that we begin to see the data on all of these 
folks.
    All that means is that I believe there is different 
opportunities. Love to explore those with you----
    Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Bergman [continuing]. to see how we make the contact. 
You can picture what a young--let us say, if you serve 4 years 
active duty and you enlisted and went through boot camp at the 
age of 18, what their mindset might be at 22, especially if 
they are not married, do not have children. They are a pretty 
tough group to get a handle around there for a while because 
they are probably going to go out and just relax a little bit.
    I just--I am proud of all of you. We are all proud of all 
of you for what you are trying to do. Let us see if we can 
figure out, in fishing terms, a way to throw that net or expand 
the net so that we get the message across.
    Mr. Jones. Yes, sir. I think you bring up a really 
interesting point. Some of the things--I think extending--you 
know, nobody wants to extend an enlistment, but you think about 
what we did with the Warrior Care units as people, you know, 
got into those transition units or those warrior transition 
units. You know, maybe there is an opportunity, again, looking 
left of transition as an opportunity to work with those that 
are transitioning out of the military.
    I think one of the things that I failed as a 
noncommissioned officer (NCO), I thought I was a pretty good 
noncommissioned officer. One of the things that I failed is my 
transitioning servicemembers. I basically said, we are going 
on, we have missions, we are going back to combat, you know, 
and I failed that. I think in my civilian life, you know, I 
have had the opportunity to kind of make----
    Mr. Bergman. I hate to cut you off, but you are eating up 
my time.
    Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay. I will. As a good NCO, you did exactly 
the right thing because you have got to take the next unit to 
the fight. Those who are leaving, they have served honorably. 
Have a nice Life, move on. Now how do we bridge that gap?
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you, General.
    Representative Deluzio, you are recognized.
    Mr. Deluzio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello, everybody.
    Mr. Jones, I want to just start with a quick clarification 
for your answer to Ranking Member Takano's question about 
forced arbitration. I understand you are not using those for 
folks, Guard, Reserve, USERRA, Servicemembers Civil Relief Act 
(SCRA) issues. Are you--is Walmart using them for other 
employees?
    Mr. Jones. No associates at all, sir.
    Mr. Deluzio. Good. Thank you. Thanks for that 
clarification.
    Shifting gears, I want to talk a bit about military spouse, 
servicemember spouse issues. Ms. Izen, I may start with you. I 
understand Home Depot has a spouse job transfer policy 
guaranteeing a job to one of your military spouse workers when 
their servicemember spouse is transferred or reassigned or has 
orders elsewhere. Can you give me a sense of what is that 
program? How does it work? Has it been a success? What have you 
learned from the program?
    Ms. Izen. Sure, I would love to talk about it. The stat I 
will use is that military spouses move across State lines 10 
times more than their civilian counterparts. When you are 
moving every 2 to 3 years, it is very hard to have a career. 
When you have a family and you are having to go find childcare 
and you are buying a new house and you are doing all the things 
that come with a move every 2 to 3 years, it is hard to focus 
on your career.
    What we do is we have a transfer program. If you are 
working at one store, distribution center, or location and you 
move on spouses orders, we will help you find a job where you 
are going. Almost all bases have a store within 30 miles of it, 
so we can guarantee that we will have a job offer for you 
wherever you go.
    We have found it to be extremely positive. In fact, on my 
military relations team, one of my program leaders is a 
military spouse. She transferred across the U.S. with her 
family two times, I think, before coming to Atlanta and is now 
on my team in Atlanta as well. We see that it works. She was 
able to keep her career with us, and we have a lot of great 
stories about military spouses that have done the same.
    Mr. Deluzio. Thank you. Either of you from Verizon, 
Walmart, any similar programs or things you want to share that 
you are doing on military spouse employment?
    Mr. McCoy. Yes. Thank you for the question. We also offer a 
lot of portability. We look at how we can solve for whatever 
that challenge is, whether it is geographic, whether it is, 
hey, we do not have that type of role in that area. Our team as 
well as the human resources team works to solve for those 
problems.
    On the employment side, I think to some of the previous 
questions, you have got to find them. Just like a veteran who 
takes off the uniform, they do not have a shirt that says, hey, 
call me, military spouse. It is figuring out how you can 
provide opportunities for them and meet them where they are at. 
My spouse I am still currently serving has lived through 
deployments; she understands that. I understand that we need to 
go out and solve for their issues. We use the Hiring Our Heroes 
military spouse program, the career accelerator, everything we 
can do, we try to find them and help them solve any issues that 
they have.
    Mr. Deluzio. Mr. Jones, anything to add from Walmart's 
point of view?
    Mr. Jones. The only thing, sir, is just, I think, self-
identification, and Michael hit on that. You know, it is really 
under--that is not a question that we ask. We have 
predominantly asked in the past, but we are now asking that 
question to self-identify as a military spouse so that we can 
help them inside their communities, inside of Walmart.
    Mr. Deluzio. Mr. Eversole, I may come to you on a related 
question. Home Depot, for instance, has a store within 30 miles 
of, I think you said, nearly every major base or many smaller 
businesses are not going to have that kind of footprint if 
someone is looking to move. What can we learn from success of 
these kinds of programs for companies with national reach that 
small businesses could be taking advantage of?
    Mr. Eversole. Thank you for that question, sir. I think the 
first priority that all companies need to do is actually track 
it and make it a priority. If you are not tracking military 
spouse employment in the first instance, it is really hard to 
think about what services or opportunities they may need in the 
future. It also impacts how you recruit people. If you do not 
understand the unique needs of military spouses because you are 
not tracking it and you do not understand it, it makes it 
really difficult to create programs and opportunities around 
that. It is impossible for organizations like mine to actually 
track outcomes. We are focused on outcomes right now. How do we 
help ensure that a population that is 92 percent women are 
finding meaningful career opportunities in this country because 
they are serving, too?
    Mr. Deluzio. Well, thank you. I encourage you all to 
continue thinking about spouses as well. The unemployment rate, 
as I understand it, for Active Duty spouses is six times the 
national average; for Reserve and Guard, it is double.
    I have got a bill, H.R. 3900, which extends some USERRA 
benefits to spouses. I was pleased and very happy to see it 
pass out of our Economic Opportunity Subcommittee in a 
bipartisan fashion. I am hopeful we will see movement there, 
but there is a lot more work to be done out in the private 
sector and certainly for us here in the Congress.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Mr. Luttrell. You are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Luttrell. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for 
your service and for the spouses especially. I mean, I am on 
borrowed time, you know, like most of you probably are, too. If 
it were not for my lovely bride, I do not know if I can make 
it.
    You know, I told her when I got out of the military, I was 
like, I am never going to leave you again. I am sure all my 
colleagues in here that served military was like, I am never 
going to leave you again. Damn it, we got elected, and I have 
not seen my family in almost 8 weeks. It is one of those 
things.
    You know, if you follow a servicemember's career, if they 
come out of high school into the military and they serve 20-
plus--20 years, 20-plus years, what I have noticed in the 
veteran space is there is that little miss of becoming, for 
lack of a better term, you miss the opportunity to become an 
adult. What I mean by that, from the time that you were a kid 
to the time you entered the military and you left the military, 
you have been given clothes, food, shelter, your medical is 
paid for, the insurance is paid for, and we make these 
transitions outbound. Those little nuances that have been taken 
care of for our entire adult life, they are sprung upon us. A 
lot of times I see when I am dealing with veterans, that is the 
hole that they start to spiral down.
    The great things that each one of your companies are doing, 
I am curious, with the turnover or the--you know, if there is 
something that we could pinpoint, are there problematic issues 
that you see in the veteran space that maybe we could start 
addressing in the DOD space?
    I know timeframe when a servicemember is exiting, and you 
said the recruiting is a big problem. Some bases are not 
letting you in because they need to hold on to those bodies. I 
can appreciate that. Inevitably, we are going to get out.
    You know, it hurts my heart to see, because when Eli and 
Derek and myself jumped off the bullet train that we were 
riding on, it did not even stop at the station. We literally 
had to jump off. No TAPs, no nothing. See you later. My 
uniforms are still in my locker and I never looked back, you 
know. We had to figure these things out.
    I think my question is, one, is there this little focal 
point that we are missing that maybe we can handle on the DOD 
side that would assist you all? I will start with that, and 
anybody can open up.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question and thank you for you 
and your family service.
    What I would say is talking about transition earlier. We 
know it, as soon as you join, you have an expiration date. You 
had your Mandatory Removal Date (MRD), you know when you are 
getting out. Mine is 2042. I know that I am going to get out of 
the military. Talk about it, understand it, realize it, 
internalize it, and bring it through into all the different 
phases of your career so that it does not punch you in the 
mouth.
    It is talking about, hey, these are things that are going 
to change. Talk about how you have to buy insurance, how 
expensive is insurance, and all the different facets that are 
going to.
    Mr. Luttrell. That never happens.
    Mr. McCoy. It does not.
    Mr. Luttrell. I promise you. I was enlisted and officer. 
That conversation just never came up, especially--and I--and 
unfortunately, I was injured, so my timeframe got cut and I 
just had to leave.
    Mr. Jones. I would say one of the things that I feel we 
missed out on as we started--after 9-11 is that we started to 
shrink down our training in noncommissioned officer courses and 
officer courses. One of the areas that I think we limited and 
we got rid of was the general studies portion of it, right, and 
we are in that portion of general studies.
    As I was transitioning, I was like, what do I want to be 
when I grow up? I don't know what that's going to look like. I 
think about the month of general studies, about Army effective 
writing or financial planning and all that. That stuff was 
really focused on occupational, and I think there is an 
opportunity that the military and you all can go back into and 
saying, what are we doing to help them? Again, left of 
transition, but through every point of training when it comes 
to professional development and even in counseling.
    As you start your career and you end your career, you are 
already building that resume. You are already talking about the 
grown-up conversations that you talk about, right? You are 
getting exposed to that in a training environment because that 
is the one thing that we are really good at, is training. I 
think there is an opportunity right there, is in our academies 
and in our different professional development opportunities. To 
add that in.
    Mr. Eversole. Sir, I will just say that we have to start 
seeing employment post military service as this preservative 
benefit of transition. If you can take care of employment and 
find meaningful employment, a lot of the other more dangerous 
issues that some of our transitioning servicemembers face are 
mitigated when they have good employment in a network. I do not 
think the military sees it that way. We really have to work 
aggressively on this.
    We also have to understand that some of these programs, 
even if they are for more senior enlisted and more senior 
officers, are really important if the servicemember has a 
family, because if you have a family, your decision-making 
matrix looks a lot different than if you are going to go home 
and sit on Mom's couch. It does not mean that the other person 
does not have, you know, real fears and concerns, but that 
person who has a family to take care of will take whatever job 
they can find, even if it creates long-term problems.
    Mr. Luttrell. Do you have anything? I ran out of time, I 
know, I am sorry. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Representative Budzinski.
    Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Ranking 
Member. Thank you to the witnesses for joining us here today on 
this very important topic. I appreciate Chairman Bost giving us 
this opportunity with this hearing to highlight what businesses 
are doing for veteran employment as well as areas for 
improvement.
    My questions for you are really focused on STEM education 
and how we can expand those opportunities that currently exist 
or maybe new opportunities we could create for our veterans. I 
mentioned this at last week's House Veterans' Affairs Committee 
(HVAC) Education Opportunity hearing that veterans really do 
continue to face some significant challenges to employment and 
educational opportunities upon returning from service. Notably, 
these challenges are even bigger for student veterans, in 
particular, which is the issue I spoke to, that are seeking 
education specifically in the STEM fields.
    Improving student access to STEM education is crucial for 
many reasons, including protecting our national security and 
expanding workforce across industries like healthcare, where we 
are seeing a severe shortage. That is why I have been proud to 
introduce the Veterans in STEM Expansion Act, which would 
improve access to the Edith Norris Rogers STEM Scholarship for 
Student Veterans, in particular. I believe veteran--I am sorry, 
I believe Federal legislation like my bill, as well as the 
opportunity businesses offer, such as yours, are crucial to 
bridging the gaps for vets that we see in STEM fields.
    This leads me to my first question, really for all the 
panelists. I am curious your observations and if you think 
there is a lack of STEM veteran graduate available--I am sorry, 
do you think there is a lack of STEM veteran graduates 
available to hire? What is your businesses--what are your 
businesses doing to improve these opportunities for our 
veterans?
    Maybe I could start with Mr. Jones, if you would not mind.
    Mr. Jones. Madam Congressman--Congresswoman, I am sorry, so 
some of the things we have is Live Better U, I talked about. We 
also have our Find a Future platform.
    Our Find a Future platform acts as kind of like a career 
services for those personnel and understanding the gaps that 
are in the industry and what skills that may be best suited for 
you. We do push them as part of those opportunities where we 
have underrepresentation from a skill set in our company. That 
is some of the ways that we do that.
    Ms. Budzinski. Great. Any other panelists? Yes.
    Ms. Izen. I would love to speak about that. We have talked 
a lot about what Home Depot does to hire veterans, but we also 
have programs, as I mentioned earlier, to help get more people 
into the construction sector and fill the skilled labor gap, as 
you just mentioned. Getting that information into the hands of 
these separating servicemembers early enough so that they are 
aware there is a SkillBridge program for construction or that 
these jobs are out there and available is really critical and 
we could use the help.
    Ms. Budzinski. Great. Thank you.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question and thank you for 
your work in this space.
    Finding opportunities for servicemembers, and we talked 
about junior enlisted, traditionally aggregate over into 
colleges. It is finding ways to engage them where they are at, 
providing these understanding of how do you take this degree 
and turn it into this job? Talking about that is one of the 
things that we do when we engage our student veteran 
population. There is over 750,000 student veterans. There is 
almost 90,000 in California's community college system alone. 
We are working to make sure that we meet them where we are and 
help talk about how to get a real job.
    Ms. Budzinski. That is excellent. Great.
    Mr. Eversole. Thank you for the question. I have seen 
across corporate America, especially over the last 5 or 6 
years, that companies are investing heavily in STEM training 
programs, not only for military servicemembers and military 
spouses, but all their employees. The one thing that we have 
seen, and we work very closely with companies like Salesforce 
and Manage Google's Career Forward program, which provides 
training for veterans and military spouses, is that even with 
those degrees and certifications, getting a job without 
relevant work experience is really difficult.
    We are firm believers that even, you know, the investment 
in training is critically important. We also need investments 
in bridges, experiential bridges, like internships, to help 
ensure that they get the skill sets and then they get the job, 
which is critically important.
    Ms. Budzinski. That is a great point. Okay. Could I 
actually stay with you, Mr. Eversole, just for some follow-up 
questions?
    I appreciate the significance of the Hiring Our Heroes 
program and understand you all partner with other businesses, 
including some here, to engage veteran talent. From your 
experience in the program and in your work, what do you think 
are some of the ways the Federal Government and industry 
partners can improve future partnerships to expand access to 
STEM education for veterans building on what has been 
discussed?
    Mr. Eversole. Yes, that is a great question. Thank you for 
that question.
    I think it is critically important in the first instance to 
understand where a lot of our servicemembers are coming from, 
from a background and a socioeconomic perspective. For me 
personally, even though I retired as a Navy captain, neither of 
my parents graduated from high school. I grew up in a small 
town in Indiana, and my dad said, go to college or join the 
military, and I did both. Finding a job and understanding how 
those skill sets transition is really difficult.
    We have to--and what does real economic opportunity look 
like in this country? That is a real challenge with a lot of 
our servicemembers. We have to help educate, in the first 
instance, what real economic opportunity and pathways into STEM 
look like and how they are attainable.
    For me, a job in the IT industry would have been the local 
high school computer lab, and that is not what it looks like at 
all today. We really have to make an investment in helping 
young Americans understand what those opportunities and 
pathways look like.
    Ms. Budzinski. That is a great point. Great. If I could 
also ask, similar to what Congressman Franklin asked, are there 
any additional barriers? Oh, I have run out of----
    The Chairman. Representative.
    Ms. Budzinski. Yes, I am out of time. Thank you so much. I 
yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Rosendale.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Before beginning public service, I owned a real estate, 
land and development company. When hiring employees in business 
and Congress, I sought out individuals who took initiative, 
were leaders, had a strong work ethic, worked well within a 
team, were critical thinkers, possessed emotional intelligence, 
and could handle stress. I found that through their service, 
veterans often have acquired all these important skills and 
make for great employees.
    Unfortunately, on a larger scale, these skills that 
veterans have acquired through service do not always translate 
easily to professional success. Veterans are 37 percent more 
likely to be underemployed than nonveterans. Glad to hear the 
employment numbers are actually going up, but I am sorry to 
hear about how many of them are underemployed.
    This statistic is very concerning, but I do believe we can 
fix it. The Transition Assistance Program attempts to provide 
pointers, including building a resume and interviewing tips. 
However, I have heard from veterans across Montana that the 
Transition Assistance Program is not adequate and more focused 
on checking a box than helping soon-to-be veterans find 
meaningful employment. I appreciate the committee's focus on 
improving the Transition Assistance Program, so that it 
actually translates into material progress for our veterans.
    Ms. Izen, in your testimony you mentioned the Home Depot 
Military Fellowship Program. This is an innovative 12-week 
cohort program that provides transition assistance where each 
fellow has a host team and veteran mentor. Can you talk more 
about the successors of that program?
    Ms. Izen. Sure, I would love to do that.
    We have our own SkillBridge program. We also partner with 
Hiring Our Heroes. We have had over 150 fellows--100 of those 
in the last year, so it is a building program. They are in 
areas like corporate, such as project managers, analytics, 
logistics, talent acquisition, HR. We have them in IT and so 
cyber developers, even tech support for junior enlisted. Then 
we have them in retail, out in our stores and in our supply 
chain, for supervisor level experience.
    When we bring them into our 11-week program, they get one-
on-one coaching. Someone from our military relations team meets 
with them on a weekly basis. I feel it is really important.
    We were talking about what can you do left of transition, 
but right of transition, driving the camaraderie. Veterans come 
from a place where they are surrounded by people that are 
service-minded and have been through a lot of the same things 
they have. Then they are thrown into a civilian population that 
does not understand them anymore.
    When we take these fellows and then pair them with other 
veterans at The Home Depot for their 11-week program, they get 
the taste of what it means to work right of transition and what 
it means to wear business casual clothes or how you can take 
your lunch whenever you want to. Like it is the very simple 
things, and we giggle, but it is true that that is the stuff 
that they do not understand and do not know who to ask.
    That fellowship program has been great for giving them a 
taste of what civilian work looks like. Then over 80 percent of 
them have come to work for us. It works really well as a 
trainer for us and also for the transitioning servicepeople.
    Mr. Rosendale. Very good. Very good. Yes, they are not used 
to that because they are accustomed to having Mr. Van Orden 
barking at them to make sure they get their daily tasks done.
    You also spoke about the Home Depot military spouse job 
transfer program. We spoke about a little bit earlier that 
guarantees the existing employee at a new store to must move to 
accommodate the spouse's order. I really like that a lot. 
Approximately how many spouses have benefited from this 
program?
    Ms. Izen. That is a great question, and I, unfortunately, 
do not have an answer because they are transferring across 
lines and managed by the H.R. team that has them now to the 
H.R. team that receives them. We ask them to let us know, but 
they typically do not.
    We have a challenge. We track military spouses in Workday, 
which is our H.R. system, but similar to what veterans do, 
sometimes they do not want to self-disclose because they think 
it could impact their potential for being promoted if somebody 
knows they might leave in a couple of years. Even though we try 
to track it, we do not have great data on military spouses or 
when they move. We know it is working. I have lots of stories. 
We get great anecdotes from the field, but I cannot give you a 
statistic for how many.
    Mr. Rosendale. If you are not able to track that, then my 
follow up to that was going to be, are you tracking the spouses 
that move to another location if they are taking advantage of 
the program? If they are not, okay, so if they start off at X 
store and they, you know, move to another, if you are not 
tracking that, then you are also not able to track why they are 
not taking advantage of it if, in fact, they do not when they 
go to the other store or are they taking advantage of that?
    Ms. Izen. I think a lot of it happens because Home Depot 
has a culture of doing the right thing. I think, quite 
honestly, without a policy, our stores, just because of our 
culture, would already be doing that. We only hear about it 
when it goes wrong. Quite frankly, I do not think I have had a 
time when we have had it go wrong.
    We did want to formalize the policy so that it is on paper 
and we have a process that they can follow, especially if they 
are going somewhere where there is not a base or they are going 
somewhere where a position does not exist. We have different 
processes to kind of follow when that happens.
    I will also mention it is not just for the people that are 
out in the field. We also have locations like our customer care 
call centers. That is a remote job. We have 5,000 remote jobs 
we work to place them in. We have apprenticeships and things 
like that within some of the remote jobs as well.
    Mr. Rosendale. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Cherfilus-McCormick.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, for 
holding this hearing today, ensuring that we can connect our 
veterans to economic opportunities and also examine any of the 
blockades.
    My first question is to Mr. Eversole. Thank you for your 
service. Your testimony mentioned that most military members 
begin to search for employment after leaving their services, 
forcing many of them to rely upon unemployment compensation. 
Many would spend months, if not years, trying to find the right 
career. The total amount of Unemployed Compensation for Ex-
servicemembers (UCX) compensation dropped from 966 million in 
2011 to 111 million in 2022. Finding gainful employment before 
the servicemember transitions out the military saves money.
    Can you describe what steps were taking between 2011 and 
2022 to achieve these savings?
    Mr. Eversole. Thank you, Madam Congresswoman, for this 
question.
    It was a whole of the private and public sector working 
together to find meaningful solutions in making veterans a top 
priority. A lot of that was really, in the initial years, was 
focused on triage and helping unemployed veterans. As we 
started to really do better with unemployed veterans, really 
thinking strategically about how we help transitioning service 
left of their transition to think about career opportunities, 
to connect with military-ready companies, to receive the right 
training, to leverage SkillBridge, and then the whole of 
government policy. There is really--I would not say one thing 
that really caused the needle to move so much. It was the 
realization that we all had to work together to make the needle 
move, and that is what we did.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you. My next question is for 
Mr. McCoy. I am happy that you brought up SkillBridge. Thank 
you for your service and for being here today.
    Your testimony mentions that Verizon and the Department of 
Defense SkillBridge, where you provided separate military 
personnel with civilian work experience through internships and 
training during their last 180 days of service. Can you talk 
about how many veterans take advantage of SkillBridge through 
Verizon?
    Mr. McCoy. Yes. Thank you for the question.
    We get a lot of interest. The work that Mr. Jones did to 
establish the Verizon program for the last 10 years has been 
well known and well recognized, and so we get a lot of 
interest. We require that the business have some type of 
headcount to be able to host and to hire them at the end of 
this, so that there is a successful work opportunity at the end 
of that training. We have been able to host 215 servicemembers 
and military spouses through our program, hiring 183 of those 
individuals.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Now, do you have a breakdown of 
the veterans who use SkillBridge program by racial, ethnic, or 
even sexual orientation demographics?
    Mr. McCoy. We have some of those, not all of those.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Will we be able to get a copy of 
that just to make sure everyone is taking advantage of this 
program?
    Mr. McCoy. Yes.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you so much.
    Then, Mr. McCoy, prior to coming to Congress, I was Chief 
Executive Officer (CEO) of a company that recruiting and 
retaining top talent was always our focus. How has Verizon 
worked to recruit and retain veterans?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. We work really hard 
to make sure. We encourage, first, self-identification because 
if we do not know you are there, we cannot include you in 
messaging. This week there is lots of opportunities. I was able 
to give out 148 tickets to NFL Salute to Service games, or 
opportunities to unfurl the flag at stadiums. I was able to 
invite servicemembers across New York City and San Diego to 
participate in parades.
    While those are the really fun ones, we are also there to 
reach out to and connect. If you do not have your military 
badge on your profile, you maybe do not know that that person 
has some shared experiences and it is building that 
camaraderie, you know. We have all talked about that. That 
shared sense of service brings us all together, the experiences 
that we have had, and we make sure that we do that. We recruit 
them to self-identify, and then we encourage them to self-
identify once they become an employee to help them be retained 
and engaged.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. This is a general question. It is 
my last. What could Congress do to help you retain and identify 
more talented veterans? It is for anybody.
    Mr. McCoy. Well, the TAP program would help us recruit 
more, expanding the impact, the ability to add virtual 
connections. We talked about junior servicemembers moving from 
one side of the country to the other. Right now, if you do not 
physically have a presence there to show up to attend those TAP 
events, they might not know about the Verizon opportunities in 
California as they move from the East Coast to the West Coast 
or vice versa.
    We want to be where we can be, as many places as we can. 
Virtualizing some of those opportunities would help us deliver 
our information and share those opportunities more broadly. 
Because as we have all alluded to, they are an elusive 
creature, that veteran.
    Ms. Izen. I will just second what he said, because having a 
consolidated resource to be able to talk to people, because we 
are a small team. Military Relations at the Home Depot--we are 
small but mighty, but we cannot be everywhere. When there is 
local bases doing local things, we cannot always make it there. 
Having some way in central to be able to talk to people 
separating would be fantastic.
    Ms. Cherfilus-McCormick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield 
back.
    The Chairman. Representative Self, you are recognized.
    Mr. Self. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I hope I am not 
replowing old ground. Now that we are back with regular 
legislative business, we do have to juggle committees. I do 
want to explore your access to bases that I heard in your 
opening remarks. The 180 days under SkillBridge, how many of 
your applicants actually get the 180 days? What percentage? Any 
idea? We will just go down the line.
    Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Congressman. All the way.
    Mr. Self. Airborne.
    Mr. Jones. I think I would say that they enter in 180 days, 
but we probably do not get them for about--we probably only get 
them for about 90 of those days due to the limitations that we 
have from the fellowship program.
    From a SkillBridge standpoint, I think there is a little 
bit more flexibility there. When you start working about 
SkillBridge, now it is a command to organization relationship 
that you have to work with. I think that is where the 
opportunity is.
    What has benefited us from the fellowship program is that 
it is housed in a relationship, a Memorandum of Agreement is 
housed at HOH, and so we do not have to work with that 
individual chain of command on that. I think there is an 
opportunity there.
    I do not think--I would say probably about 90 percent of 
them are not maximizing the 180 days.
    Mr. Self. That is because of their command?
    Mr. Jones. I would say they are limited to that or they are 
unaware of the SkillBridge program or the fellowship program, 
frankly.
    Mr. Self. Okay. Thank you.
    Mr. McCoy.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. We also do not see 
servicemembers taking 180 days. One of the things that we look 
at is we try to put them in on the back end so that we can hire 
them immediately so there is not a gap. We take advantage of 
90.
    Ms. Izen. I will reiterate what my partner at Walmart said. 
I think the bigger problem is being aware of the program and 
then getting approval on the front end to participate in the 
program. Generally, once they make it to us and they are a 
couple of weeks in, we have had a couple get pulled back, but 
they are pretty committed at that point. The bigger problem is, 
especially in the junior enlisted ranks, getting the approval 
to participate up front.
    Mr. Self. You see an obstacle in the command approval 
process?
    Ms. Izen. Correct.
    Mr. Self. With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Representative McGarvey.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you guys all 
so much for being here. Really appreciate the work you all are 
doing to highlight the importance of veterans coming back in 
and having jobs in our community.
    I am excited about this hearing. I want to highlight the 
need to have our veterans come home to jobs with dignity and 
good pay.
    While we are talking about that, though, let us talk about 
our veterans in specifically right now, we know that almost 
half a million vets pay more than 50 percent of their income 
for rent. There is still food insecurity; that is a major 
problem. The Department of Labor just released in their October 
jobs report that 8.4 million workers are working multiple jobs 
now.
    When we look at our vets, we know that our vets do not just 
deserve jobs, they deserve careers. We are talking dignified, 
good paying work, opportunities for growth. I want to drill 
into this a little bit when we talk about the jobs veterans are 
getting.
    Mr. Jones, I know, we will start with you. Walmart has done 
an amazing job, 530,000 veterans hired over the last decade. 
That includes military spouses. That is a huge number. My 
brother is still Active Duty right now. I can tell you grateful 
to the commitment to hiring veterans. I would like to get a 
better sense of what that number means in reality.
    Let us say you are a recently separated junior NCO. What is 
the starting salary? Are they earning minimum wage? Just above 
it? What kind of job is that person getting at Walmart?
    Mr. Jones. Mr. Congressman, thank you very much. Great 
question.
    I think it is a diversity. We do not limit where your entry 
point is. Our goal is to meet that person where they are in 
their transition. If that means right now that is working in 
our store as a cashier, because if that is what is right for 
their career and we give them experience to our Live Better U 
to educate and upskill, then we want to make sure that they are 
gainfully employed and that they have income coming in. That is 
the first and prominent. We do not want them unemployed.
    Second, we found that they advanced very quickly through 
the ranks. We are not limited to frontline of workers. We have 
personnel through our entire organization. We are a self-
sustaining organization just like the military. Giving them 
that exposure to understand where they can be or where they are 
at is something that we really take pride in focusing on.
    There is no limitation to where they start in the company. 
We hope that they are working in jobs that are equivalent to 
what they have worked in, but we know that not all skills, hard 
skills, will transfer, but soft skills definitely will.
    Mr. McGarvey. Yes, absolutely. Getting into that just a 
little bit more, you mentioned LBU, which I want to ask about, 
because we talk about this idea of jobs versus careers. We know 
that Walmart has promoted 63,000 of that 530,000 number and 
that includes veterans. It also includes military spouses, 
which we have talked about. I do not have a breakout of that. 
That is about 12 percent of those veterans have received 
promotions.
    How many are taking advantage of LBU and the programs that 
you are working on? What does that potential for promotion look 
like?
    Mr. Jones. I do not have the exact number, sir. I will tell 
you that early on, as soon as they are onboarded, that is the 
first thing that they are eligible for. From day one, they are 
eligible for, you know, tuition assistance for free from LBU.
    I do not have that number. I can follow up with that 
number, but they are eligible. We over communicate that through 
our performance agreements all throughout the year. Every time 
there is an opportunity to talk about how to career progress, 
that is an opportunity to speak about that.
    Mr. McGarvey. I appreciate that, because one of the things 
we are looking at here is how can we help? Right? How can we 
help in this?
    We look at apprenticeships, when we look at on-the-job 
training, we know that Department of Labor-Veterans Employment 
and Training Services (DOL-VETS) program connects vets with 
apprenticeship programs, that program has led to good outcomes. 
Last week, we had a subcommittee hearing where we noted that 
less than 2 percent of post 9-11 GI Bill recipients use that 
on-the-job training program. I was wondering if you were having 
more success with that, which is why I was asking about LBU in 
there.
    Just a little bit of time left, so I will go to Mr. 
Eversole. I do believe in the apprenticeship model. I do want 
our veterans to have good jobs, good paying careers that they 
can get into when they leave. What more can be done to increase 
the involvement of veterans and registered apprenticeships? 
What can employers do and what can we do in Congress? You get 
the last 30 seconds.
    Mr. Eversole. Thank you, sir, for that question. 
Apprenticeships are critically important for our 
servicemembers, much like SkillBridge. We have to do a better 
job of communicating those opportunities beforehand and 
leveraging things like SkillBridge as a pre-apprenticeship that 
then transition into a full-time apprenticeship.
    This is a function of communication and the Department of 
Labor, this is an area where the apprenticeships have grown 
significantly and benefited our veterans and their families 
incredibly.
    Mr. McGarvey. Thank you guys for what you do. Mr. Chairman. 
I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Van Orden.
    Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Ms. Izen, although I am not a Purple Heart recipient, I 
want you to take this back to your bosses and say thank you for 
having Purple Heart-specific parking spaces in front of your 
stores. I mean, I know that just seems like it is nothing, but 
to me, that is an incredibly powerful gesture, so thank you for 
that.
    Mr. Rosendale was referring to me yelling at people and it 
is part of my nature as a senior enlisted guy. First Sergeant, 
you know what I am talking about.
    Could you give me, anybody here, a list of specific bases 
that are not allowing you access? The reason I ask this is 
because I learned in the military, when a letter shows up from 
a congressional office, which it will, to the base commander, 
if they are not allowing you access, I would like specifics. I 
know we speak in generalities lots of times, but we will type 
that letter up and I will get an answer immediately because 
that is wholly unacceptable.
    Captain, what has your experience been with dual vets and 
their Disabled Veteran Outreach Program offices?
    Mr. Eversole. Thank you for that question, sir.
    I do not have any specific knowledge of the Department of 
Labor's vets disabled outreach efforts, so I will respectfully 
decline to do that. I am on the, in full disclosure, on the 
Federal Advisory Committee for the Department of Labor Vets. I 
know that from the Department of Labor and that committee's 
perspective, making sure that our disabled vets have the right 
resources and tools to be successful is a top priority and 
certainly something that we, as a Federal advisory committee, 
talk about all the time.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Thank you.
    First Sergeant.
    Mr. Jones. Sir, I think----
    Mr. Van Orden. Sorry, First Arm.
    Mr. Jones. First Arm.
    Mr. Van Orden. My bad.
    Mr. Jones. Sir, I think one of the biggest opportunities is 
working with the Development and Operations (DevOps) and levers 
in each of the career one-stop offices. As a best practice, 
those are some of the things that we train our recruiters on in 
working out when we do outreach.
    Mr. Van Orden. You are intimately familiar with these 
programs?
    Mr. Jones. Yes, sir.
    Mr. Van Orden. How often do you use them and what is your 
throughput, would you say?
    Mr. Jones. In my current role, I am new to Walmart. I have 
been here for about 70 days. In my previous work, I would say 
on average, we would outreach to them once a month, just 
ongoing communications about opportunities that are available 
in those communities. I think instead of looking at it from a 
national level, I mean, really focusing at the county level is 
really important because they have a good understanding of the 
skills of those personnel, what their needs and resources are. 
If they have a disability, we can work directly with them ahead 
of time, being hired to work with our accommodations team to 
identify those things.
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Mr. McCoy.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. Thank you for your 
service.
    Tommy was my boss, so he trained me on how to do this. We 
still do that. We set up regular----
    Mr. Van Orden. I am sorry, is someone pinging for a 
submarine back there? Okay, thanks.
    Mr. McCoy. We reach out to them based on the geographic 
location, like you mentioned. We make sure that we empower the 
nonmilitary recruiting team to understand what do these 
organizations do? What are these opportunities to engage with 
them? We host information sessions with them, and we are 
regularly outreaching and try to get as many veterans to apply 
as we can.
    Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Then I have a minute 30 left. 
Ma'am, are you familiar with these guys?
    Ms. Izen. I am not intimately familiar with those programs. 
I would say that we treat our disabled veterans the way we 
treat all of our disabled associates, and we have processes to 
make sure we do the right thing for them.
    As a company, we do focus on disabled veterans and helping 
them through the Foundation investment I mentioned earlier of 
half a billion dollars to veterans causes. One of the things 
that we do is help critically wounded veterans have living 
spaces that work for them. There is an example in the testimony 
that I have on file, and with groups like Gary Sinise 
Foundation. We outfit their homes to make sure that they have 
the appropriate living spaces.
    Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Well, I am just going to take a couple 
seconds to thank you all very much. I am the chairman of the 
subcommittee responsible for the transition assistance program. 
Mr. Levin, who had to go to another committee hearing, is the 
ranking member. I want you to know we are working very, very 
hard and we put our veterans first.
    If there is anything, you do not have to wait for a 
congressional hearing. If you guys have any ideas on how to 
make this transition period more useful, I would like you to 
reach out directly to my office. As we know, that 24-month 
window from the time you take off your uniform is when, 
unfortunately, a lot of our veterans commit suicide because you 
lose your rank and your status and your uniform and twice the 
husband, half the paycheck, that sort of stuff.
    Please feel free to reach out directly to me at any point 
that you--you know what I am talking about. Just God bless you 
and your families and your work. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
    The Chairman. Mr. Mrvan, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Mrvan. I just wanted to take a moment. I realize it is 
about employment, but with Home Depot, I was a local elected 
official, worked with Jim Chancellor, who is an advocate for 
veterans. Home Depot, on two occasions, donated goods for a 
Veterans Service Organization (VSO), for Disabled American 
Veterans (DAV) for a roof, and then their employees came out 
and did the roof. Then for another home for transition for 
homeless veterans, they supplied all the goods and the windows. 
I thank you, and I am not picking and choosing winners, but I 
am giving you personal experience on the overreaching value of 
your organizations with veterans and their families.
    That being said, the period of transitioning out of the 
military is an extremely stressful time. Servicemembers are 
balancing their responsibilities to military while figuring out 
where they are going to live, find a job, or enroll in school. 
The bare minimum our military services should provide is a 
comprehensive readout of the skills and experiences of 
servicemember and how these skills and experiences qualify the 
individual for certain jobs in the civilian workplace. However, 
this is not the case, and only the most basic summary of 
services is provided.
    In the effort to facilitate a smoother transition of 
military personnel into civilian employment what specific 
measures or initiatives do you believe employers can recommend 
to the military that would help improve the process of 
transitioning or translating military skills and experiences 
into valuable assets into the civilian job market?
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question, and thank you for 
your work in this space.
    One of the things that we see in the civilian side is 
certifications. The military is a heavy training organization, 
but we do not provide certifications for the skills and 
experiences that you learn. You are not getting an 
International Information System Security Certification 
Consortium International Information System Security 
Certification Consortium (ISC2), Certified Information Systems 
Security Professional (CISSP) certification for going to a 
communications school.
    Implementing some of the rigors of civilian certification 
processes could help with that transition because you 
understand your skills and experience that transition directly 
into requirements that are written in job descriptions. That 
would help, but it could be portable across state lines and it 
could be easily implemented.
    Mr. Jones. Sir, I would just add, you know, we understand 
the importance of that at Walmart. Our foundation has focused 
on creating transition tools or focusing on skills with some of 
our nonprofits to help with that translation of skills and 
identifying those areas and allowing them to be available to 
them so they understand where they are fit. Working through the 
Manufacturing Institute or with Hire Heroes to create a 
taxonomy of where they can map into jobs directly from their 
military transcripts into Walmart is what we are really 
focusing on. That is underway right now.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. I guess just to take it one step farther, 
how are you communicating with the DOD to make sure that that 
is a--those skill sets are being administered on their end 
prior to?
    Mr. Jones. It is a public partnership. We are working with 
MilGears and COOLs through that communication. As they are 
starting to identify and need their transcript, their military 
transcripts, that is where they can do it.
    We also sit on boards with the Department of Labor and 
Chamber of Commerce to communicate what we are working on with 
that. That is really how the message is getting out, sir.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay, thank you. With that, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Ciscomani, you are recognized 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
witnesses for coming before the committee to testify.
    Companies across the United States are working hard to 
support our brave men and women who have served our country and 
protected our freedoms. Before we reschedule this hearing, my 
constituent, Lauryn Dougherty, who is a small business owner in 
Tucson, Arizona, was set to participate in this hearing. I want 
to take a moment to thank her for her willingness to 
participate in the legislative process and for her hard work 
and dedication serving our Nation. Lauren now owns and runs a 
small business, Cracked Armor Roasting Company, while attending 
school and also raising a family.
    Now, Mr. Jones, the Walmart Foundation is something this 
committee sees as a unique program to help small businesses, 
like Lauryn's, around the country grow. What impact has the 
foundation had on veteran-owned small businesses?
    Mr. Jones. Thank you, Mr. Congressman. Obviously, we have 
our open call. You all are familiar with that. A part of that 
commitment, we committed to spend $350 billion over 10 years on 
items made and assembled in the United States. We really focus 
on veteran-owned business as well. We just had that last week 
where we had our open call.
    One of those businesses is Grind Oral Care, sells U.S. made 
toothpaste, but is a veteran-owned business. They came to our 
open call and they received the Golden Ticket, and we are 
continuing to do that.
    In the future, we look to work with IVMF to focus on what 
are the areas of opportunity for veteran entrepreneurs that 
need help and where are they lacking resources? We are going to 
come together and formulate a panel in conjunction with the 
Certified Veteran-Owned Business Coalition to work on that, 
sir.
    Mr. Ciscomani. That is great. Let us know if there is 
anything we can do to help on that as well. I think that is a 
great effort. Very interested in helping out in whatever way we 
can.
    You know, my district in Congressional District (CD) 6 in 
Arizona and the southeastern corner of Arizona, it is home to 
about 70,000 veterans, a little over 70,000 veterans. All these 
things are highly important. With our veterans also come their 
families and those that are in service now, but also our 
veterans. They deserve all the support and resources the 
government can provide as they transition from service life to 
civilian life. We cannot do this alone. That is why the work 
our businesses are doing to support and attract veterans and 
their families also is so important.
    To all the witnesses, could you please speak briefly to the 
initiatives and programs your organizations provide for 
servicemembers, spouses, and families as well? What 
opportunities do they have and what benefits are they provided 
as well?
    Ms. Izen. I will start on this one. I talked previously a 
lot about the military spouse transfer program and how we have 
remote work capabilities for the military spouse career, so I 
will set that aside.
    We also try to make sure that we take care of the whole 
family. When you move a long way, you will arrive somewhere new 
and you need childcare. We have resources to help you find 
local childcare. You need new doctors. We have resources that 
help you find new doctors in your area. You probably are 
stressed out. We have 24/7 counseling available for you.
    It is also the softer side. It is not just the career, but 
the softer side of what comes along with the move and the 
stress of a deployment.
    Then we also have guides and things that when a 
servicemember deploys that works for The Home Depot or is a 
Guardsman who takes time away, we have guides that tells the 
stores or their managers what to do during that time. At 60 
days, you should send a letter. At 6 months, you need to check 
in on the family. At holidays, be sure you reach out, which 
sounds so simple, but when you are busy and you are a leader in 
a store, you are not thinking about what you can do to help 
those families. Guides like that that are so simple can be so 
impactful to make sure we are taking care of the whole family.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you. Thank you.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you for the question. We do a lot of the 
similar things. We are working with our team members to make 
sure that we know, hey, when somebody goes out, we reach out to 
them. We send them care packages, we send them letters. We do a 
lot of letter writing across our entire organization to make 
sure that the deployed servicemember, as well as the spouse and 
the family left home, are engaged and retained and just part of 
the community that is Verizon's family. We do a lot of that 
work.
    We also have portability of careers. We also help with 
transitioning across different career areas with upskilling 
through our Tuition Assistance Program, but also our internal 
certification programs.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you.
    Mr. Jones. Sorry, all the same. The only thing to add on, 
and I know these organizations do the same, is our associate 
resource group, our employee resource group engagement. Then 
during the onboarding process, making them aware of what is 
available to them from a benefit standpoint. We do a really 
good job of that.
    Then just following up through our employee resource groups 
or associate resource groups as companies, I think that is the 
biggest thing.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you.
    Mr. Eversole. We are focused on employment. We have to ebb 
the 21 percent unemployment that military spouses are facing 
and really help the families have the income they need to be 
successful.
    Mr. Ciscomani. Excellent. Thank you. Mr. Chair, I yield 
back. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Now I recognize the gentlewoman from the 
other part of Illinois, Representative Ramirez.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman Bost. I also echo my 
colleagues' sentiments thanking every witness that is here 
today.
    We know that high-quality, good-paying jobs provide 
veterans access to safe and stable housing. Right now, our 
Nation is facing a housing crisis. In my city of Chicago, the 
part of the state I am in, rent has gone up by 5.7 percent in 
certain parts of the city. Some communities are reporting that 
veterans and others are having to now pay sometimes even 30 
percent more when they are having to renew their lease. Instead 
of passing critical legislation to fully fund and meet our 
Nation's housing needs, today when we go into the chamber, we 
are going to be voting on appropriations bill that will cripple 
vital housing efforts by cutting billions from Federal programs 
for rental assistance and the construction of new affordable 
housing units.
    I think it is imperative that we continue to prioritize 
housing as a human right, including especially for our 
veterans. I know we may not be able to fix the housing crisis 
today, and certainly in this hearing now, but I know we can 
take one important step by ensuring that veterans have jobs 
with living wages that allow them to stay afloat with a safe 
proof over their heads.
    Just talk a little bit more about housing. This is a 
question for Ms. Izen and I guess also for Verizon and Walmart. 
Do you hire veterans that are experiencing homelessness?
    Ms. Izen. Of course. We do not distinguish based on where 
you live.
    Ms. Ramirez. Great. Do you keep track--yes, go ahead. Yes 
or no?
    Mr. McCoy. Yes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Yes. I assume you work with them, of course. 
What would you say? Do you keep track of how many veterans who 
you are hiring are experiencing homelessness or at risk of 
homelessness?
    Ms. Izen. We have enough trouble even tracking who the 
veterans are. They do not want to tell us. I would imagine 
getting a veteran to tell us that they are also homeless would 
be a very difficult thing.
    I will say, at The Home Depot, we have what is called the 
Homer Fund, and it is an associate financial assistance 
program. It is our internal charity that is funded by our 
associates, for our associates, that helps people, just like 
the situation you are talking about. When they get down on hard 
times, somebody gets sick, somebody passes away, this 
organization steps in to help with that.
    It would certainly be the case, now that the person is 
working for us, if we realize that they were down on their luck 
in that way.
    Ms. Ramirez. At orientation, is there an opportunity for 
employees to know about these programs, should they need them?
    Ms. Izen. Absolutely.
    Ms. Ramirez. Okay, great.
    Ms. Izen. Absolutely.
    Ms. Ramirez. Great. I want to now talk a little bit about 
diversity and certainly the diversity that exists within our 
veteran community.
    In this committee, one of my priorities has been amplifying 
and advocating for women veterans, disabled veterans we have 
been talking about today, and veterans of color. I know that 
they are a critical part of the veteran community, and often 
they go unrecognized.
    This is a question, yes or no, I think across the board for 
all of you. Do you have programs that are tailored specifically 
to women veterans, disabled veterans, or people of color? I 
will start with you.
    Mr. Jones. Yes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. Ms. Izen.
    Ms. Izen. No.
    Ms. Ramirez. Okay. Let me ask a follow-up question. Do your 
organizations keep track of demographic information, included 
but not limited to gender and race of the veterans utilizing 
your programs?
    Mr. Eversole. Yes.
    Ms. Ramirez. Okay. Through the what?
    Mr. Mccoy. Through our SG report.
    Ms. Ramirez. Okay.
    Mr. McCoy. Yes.
    Ms. Izen. Yes. Our fellowship is 72 percent diverse.
    Ms. Ramirez. Okay. Numbers and data can shed light on who 
is being unintentionally left out or who can be better served. 
When organizations produce their Environmental, Social, and 
Governance (ESG) or their diversity, equity, and inclusion 
reports, it is vital that veterans are included in all that 
data. I would be interested in hearing, and this could be an 
answer from any of you, particularly those with specialized 
programs, what are some of the greatest needs you are hearing 
from some of these communities? Either of you can answer what 
we have left.
    Mr. McCoy. I think one of the biggest things that we see, 
everybody keeps saying this, is self-identification. We see 
women veterans are one of the least likely groups to self-
identify. There is a variety of different reasons that go 
behind that, but making sure that they understand that it is a 
safe opportunity for them, that they are not going to be put in 
a position where, hey, you have to self-identify or you do not 
have to self-identify, it is 100 percent a choice. We want to 
make sure that the opportunities that we create for female 
veterans are unique and they are specialized to them. Sorry.
    Ms. Ramirez. Did anyone else want to answer? Okay.
    I would just emphasize, I think it is really important, as 
we hear from a lot of our veterans who will not self-identify, 
who, of course, it is the same. We see even in school when 
trying to get data of how many families are experiencing 
homelessness, that we have different efforts and resources to 
help identify those needs, because you are going to see that 
impact in the workforce. You are going to see that in their 
performance. Certainly for our veterans who have other things 
that are happening, it is important to be able to tailor 
programming and provide that outreach. I would love to--
particular programs that you have, you can send the information 
over. It would be really helpful.
    I had just one last question, and this just goes following 
up on the TAP program. I heard you saying virtualizing the 
program. Is there anything else you think that we could be 
doing to make the TAP program more effective?
    Mr. McCoy. Centralizing points of contact.
    Ms. Ramirez. Got it. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you, 
Chairman.
    The Chairman. Thank you. The gentlewoman yields back.
    This panel, we want to say thank you for being here today. 
I think there was a great amount of information that was given 
to us and we appreciate that. We let this panel be dismissed, 
and we will set up for the next panel.
    Mr. McCoy. Thank you all. Thank you.
    [Recess]
    The Chairman. Okay. I would like to now introduce our 
second panel, if I can. First off, let me say to our second 
panel, thank you for sitting through the long questions of the 
first panel. Let me also say we are hoping to get your 
information and your statements. The advantage of that is we 
will not be asking you a lot of questions, because right now it 
looks like about two of us against you. Not against you, but 
for you.
    First, we have Mr. Joe Gerardi?
    Mr. Gelardi. Gelardi, sir.
    The Chairman. Gelardi, and he is president and chief 
executive officer of Vectrona, LLC. Correct? All right. Then 
also we have Mr. Chris Maynor, owner of Daniel Deans Clothing 
Store. I want to welcome you both, but I want to say a special 
welcome to Chris and Chelsea, to Washington, DC, to talk about 
veteran small businesses and employment issues. They own and 
operate a store that is actually in my hometown, right across 
the street from our own business. Daniel Deans is where you can 
purchase a wide range of clothing and outdoor accessories 
through their small business. Chris and Chelsea are active in 
helping veterans within the community throughout services and 
building connections with local veterans organizations.
    It is a pleasure to see them to do this work and what they 
are already doing in Murfreesboro in helping our local 
community. This commitment is excited to hear about, and we 
want to continue to grow veteran-owned small businesses across 
the country. I want to thank you both for being here today. 
Then we are looking forward to your testimony.
    With that, I will have you both stand, if I can.
    [Witnesses sworn.]
    The Chairman. Thank you. You may be seated, and let the 
records reflect that all witnesses have answered in the 
affirmative.
    Mr. Gelardi, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening statement.

                    STATEMENT OF JOE GELARDI

    Mr. Gelardi. Thank you, Chairman Bost, esteemed committee 
members. Thank you for this platform to discuss a pivotal role 
of veterans and veteran entrepreneurship in our Nation's 
economy and security. Having served with exemplary veterans 
throughout my own 23-year Navy career, most of the time was 
spent flying F-14 Tomcats and F-18 Hornets before founding 
Vectrona. Throughout that time, I witnessed firsthand veterans' 
unwavering dedication and integrity, and these qualities remain 
intact as they transition to civilian life, enriching our 
businesses and communities.
    Veteran entrepreneurs employ nearly 6 million American 
workers and generate about 1.2 trillion in annual revenue, 
businesses large and small. Veterans represent just 2.3 percent 
of the workforce, but veteran businesses account for an 
oversized 7.3 percent of the U.S. private sector economy. This 
is not just a statistic, it is a testament to their indomitable 
spirit and the value they add post service, including the 
experience and mission insight that they bring to critically 
needed in the Department of Defense.
    However, as Secretary of Defense Austin observed earlier 
this year in his small business strategy, the participation of 
small business in the defense industrial base has declined by 
over 40 percent in the past decade, and the number of small 
businesses receiving contract awards has dropped by more than 
half. While the Secretary's initiatives to provide new training 
resources is commendable, his observations reflect a dire need 
to reform not small business training, but our approach to 
acquisitions.
    Acquisition professionals need more education to better 
understand how their decisions, policies, and processes create 
increasing barriers to success that hurt veteran entrepreneurs 
and professionals, the war fighter, and the Nation as a whole.
    Our veterans find themselves up against a burgeoning 
regulatory maze that can be discouraging and disheartening and 
stifles the very innovation we need to maintain our 
technological edge. Take Section 174, the Tax Cuts and Jobs 
Act, for instance, which effectively penalizes veteran small 
businesses for tackling our Nation's most challenging 
technology needs.
    General Brown, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, previously 
challenged the Air Force to accelerate change or lose in the 
face of growing peer threats. Left unchecked, Section 174 is a 
massive speed brake on veteran participation in small business 
innovation research and puts our competitive edge at risk.
    Other programs intended to level playing field for all, 
such as the Alaskan Native Corporation (ANC) Program, makes it 
much harder for veteran businesses to compete by giving ANCs 
nearly 20 times the contracting power of other small 
businesses.
    The transition from active duty life to civilian life to 
participate in business in the economy is fraught with 
challenges. Existing transition programs miss the mark because 
information and assistance often comes too late in the process 
and training is often out of touch with current private sector 
business practices. To remedy this, we must revamp transition 
programs to be more adaptable to servicemembers unique needs 
and schedules, and be more reflective of the differences 
between military and business culture.
    Transition challenges are not just about the economics. 
They are also about the human cost. Without adequate support, 
pressure on our veterans can lead to heightened emotional 
stress and financial insecurity, which exacerbates mental 
health issues and substance abuse, in some cases resulting in a 
veteran suicide rate of 22 per day, a national tragedy that 
speaks volumes about the urgency of improving our support, 
infrastructure, and transition programs.
    Robust support is essential not just for the well being of 
veterans, but also for businesses and the Nation that depends 
on them. By equipping veterans with the tools for success in 
the business world, we honor their service and encourage future 
generations to serve, knowing that their skills and sacrifices 
will be valued both in and out of uniform.
    Veterans lead in combat, in business, in innovation, and in 
government. I urge this committee to champion reforms that will 
empower veterans to contribute further to our Nation through 
entrepreneurship and innovation. By doing so, we not only repay 
our debt of gratitude, but we also invest in the very fabric of 
our Nation's future.
    Thank you for your unwavering support to veterans, and I 
look forward to supporting you and enacting meaningful changes.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Joe Gelardi Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Gelardi, for your testimony.
    Now the written text statement of Mr. Gelardi will be 
entered into the hearing record.
    Mr. Maynor, you are now recognized for 5 minutes for your 
opening statement remarks.

                   STATEMENT OF CHRIS MAYNOR

    Mr. Maynor. Chairman Bost, members of the committee, thank 
you for your opportunity today to provide my remarks for this 
critical issue.
    As a 15-year Army combat infantryman with three tours to 
Iraq, I never imagined myself opening a small business. For a 
large part of my life I have had the opportunity, relying on my 
fellow comrades for support. My life changed once I got out of 
the service, transferring from military life to civilian life. 
I did not have a meaningful purpose in my life. If it was not 
for family and friends, I might have been one of those 22 
veterans today. When we leave the service, you feel like you 
have lost a purpose you had in the military.
    In 2017, I married my wife, and she showed me that I did 
have a purpose, a drive to succeed, not only for myself and my 
family, but also my fellow comrades. I started back to school 
at John A. Logan College, receiving my degree in heating and 
air in 2018. I became an active member of the local Veterans of 
Foreign Wars (VFW) and moved all the way up in chairs become 
district commander. About the same time, I took a job at John 
A. Logan College in the heating and Air department.
    Between using my vacation and sick time for days off for 
PTSD reasons or days with VFW events or helping fight for my 
fellow veterans' benefits, I had no time for family or my five 
children. I mentioned many times to my wife that I would like 
to open a men's clothing store. I figured it would--I would 
open my own business and I was having a difficult day with 
PTSD, I would not risk losing my job, taking more time off.
    Finally, after some more convincing, my wife agreed and 
time would start our own small business, a men's clothing store 
named Daniel Deans. We wanted to open a store that offered 
varying men's clothing along with accessories, like Hurricane 
Marsh, Burlebo, Jim's Formal Wear, and we aimed to create a 
place where men could physically interact with items to try on 
and be one of the local presence in the community.
    We quickly learned it was no walk in a park starting our 
own business with all my struggles, Traumatic Brain Injury 
(TBI), PTSD, challenges left to my co-owner. She had multiple 
long hours, phone calls, countless emails back and forth with 
different companies, searching for websites claiming to have 
knowledge for veterans starting small businesses. With not 
understanding any of the rules or regulations of all the 
programs, it became difficult to try to figure out we even 
qualify for any of them. We just stopped trying at the point we 
had proceed opening a business with our own--in our own pocket 
putting us in debt.
    There is such a high demand for veterans trying to move 
forward in life, become business owners. They are trying to 
find new purpose in life after the military. Years ago, it used 
to be more service officers, we knew everything there was to 
know about veteran benefits. Maybe if we took things back to 
those times and focus on getting more service officers out 
helping veterans, we might have more veteran-owned businesses.
    If we develop something for veterans to help other 
veterans, we might get a better turnout. I believe civilians do 
care about veterans, but they do not understand the bond of a 
veteran taking care of another veteran. There is no other 
stronger camaraderie.
    Veteran service officers are underpaid and overworked and, 
as a result, for that reason we do not have many left. If we 
must keep all the resources for grants and funding opportunity 
on websites, I would like to recommend it be developed to 
present it in a way we say in the military KISS, keep it stupid 
simple.
    A user-friendly website, three buttons: veterans, disabled 
veterans, women veterans. The user could easily click their 
category, fill out the application and the paperwork, and apply 
for grants and funding automatically.
    We appreciate your time today giving me the opportunity to 
further discuss struggles for trying to open up veterans small 
business. Thank you, Chairman Bost. This concedes my testimony.
    Again, thank you for, Ranking Member Takano, an opportunity 
to testify on this opportunity issue before the committee. I am 
prepared to take any questions you committee members may have.

    [The Prepared Statement Of Chris Maynor Appears In The 
Appendix]

    The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Maynor. We are going to open 
it to questions now, and I will take the first 5 minutes.
    As a veteran yourself, Mr. Maynor, what do you think the 
barriers that still exist in hindering veteran employment 
opportunities or are there opportunities to start new 
businesses?
    Mr. Maynor. The information for the veterans to find is 
still difficult. It is not easily out there for them.
    The Chairman. Okay. When Daniel Deans--and I know you just 
opened in September, what were some of the barriers that you 
faced at the beginning of trying to get it open, and what are 
some of the barriers you are facing now that you are open?
    Mr. Maynor. Well, we looked into getting grants to help us, 
and we could not find any. One website, we called them, and 
they are like, what is on the website? Figure it out. That 
should not be the case. We just started funding ourselves. We 
put ourselves in debt now, and we are trying to get out, but we 
are also trying to grow. That would be----
    The Chairman. You are also still trying to keep up with--
both you and your wife are keeping up with jobs on your own 
besides owning a business.
    Mr. Maynor. I still work at the college at nighttime on 
second shift. My wife does a lot of it. I work during a day, 
and then I go right back to work at nighttime, then also trying 
to spend time with five children.
    The Chairman. In your testimony, you mentioned that when 
you left the military and transitioned into civilian life, you 
did not know the meaning of life. We are happy, first off, to 
have you sitting here before us today and that you are 
representing small businesses. What--the other concerns that I 
think we need to put on record, you say looking for grants, are 
there--and you were talking about VSOs. Do VSOs have the access 
to know and understand what helps small businesses or not? I 
know you are involved with them pretty heavy.
    Mr. Maynor. Yes, I believe they all have it. I think it is 
more of a state-level VSO jobs other than just relying on the 
American Legion or the VFW to help that VSO.
    The VSOs, you know, when you return to Illinois, they help 
you sign up for the free hunting license or if you are a 
certain disability rating, they help you sign up for that 
stuff. That should be an office. We should just be able to walk 
right into either your local courthouse or one of the National 
Guard units where there is a person there that can help you 
out. Just like they have a recruiter there to sign you up. 
There should be something to help you transit it out.
    The Chairman. I am going to ask you something from your 
level at the VSOs. Have we seen a reduction in rural areas in 
the amount of VSOs that are out in the rural areas that could 
provide for that?
    Mr. Maynor. Yes, sir. Unfortunately, the VSO the VFW had in 
Marion committed suicide. We are down to one for the American 
Legion, one only by appointments, and our state level, she is 
working three counties, so it is very----
    The Chairman. That is a hindrance not only in small 
business, but that is also a hindrance to other things that 
VSOs provide for and counsel on.
    Mr. Maynor. Yes, yes.
    The Chairman. Okay. Well, I want to say thank you for you 
being here today.
    One other thing I wanted to bring up, and I was wishing 
that Mr. Crane had not left the room, because I just wanted to 
bring up the fact that, you know, he has a veteran small--Eli 
Crane, our member, he has a veteran small business, and they 
make little things like this that are just fantastic, and they 
are veterans. I gave these away whenever I was running for a 
ranking member. His business, and I hope that his testimony 
will be given later on to explain how he found a way to become 
the entrepreneur that he is with his small business as well. We 
wish you luck with that.
    I will yield back the balance of my time. Mr. Mrvan, you 
are recognized for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Mrvan. Thank you. I just wanted to follow up with one 
other question on the ability or the availability to resources 
for you. I am going to mention a couple specific to see if you 
are aware, just for our knowledge.
    When it came to accessing capital, was there any access, 
either through the Small Business Administration (SBA) or 
through Dolves, D-O-L-V-ETS, Dolvets, Veterans Business 
Outreach Centers, or the veterans lending program at your bank 
or financial institution?
    Mr. Maynor. Sir, we come from a small community and did not 
know anything of that.
    Mr. Mrvan. Okay. Then, so, in order to put it together, you 
depended on your own resources. Have you heard of or is there 
anything that advances any type of assistance going forward as 
a veteran for small businesses that you have been aware of?
    Mr. Maynor. No, sir. We have been reaching out to other 
veteran businesses and trying to grow with them and offer their 
products in our store and try to--I get phone calls all the 
time from local veterans wants to try to startup a car cleaning 
business, and another one is starting up a coffee business. 
They are asking me, where do I go to these grants? I am like, I 
am not sure. As soon as I find out, I am going to get it to 
you.
    Mr. Mrvan. It does not go unnoticed, because we are here to 
learn from your experience. When you said you went on a website 
and then you contacted them and they said, what is on the 
website is what is available, can you share what the website 
was?
    Mr. Maynor. That would have been my wife that did that, 
because I do not have the patience half the time when it comes 
to that.
    Mr. Mrvan. Fair enough.
    Mr. Maynor. I am a hard charger, so it just--it is, you 
know, for a veteran that, you know, with fighting PTSD and TBI 
and all that, it should not be so hard to look for veteran 
benefits. It should not be dangled in front of us, here is 
this, or not even know about it, because I believe that we need 
to come up a way to help our veterans, especially in small 
communities.
    Mr. Mrvan. I think every member who sits here, who protects 
and advances veteran benefits want to make sure that it is not 
a facade, that they exist so that they have a purpose. Your 
message is loud and clear, and we can do our best to be able to 
take that experience, that you had to be able to translate that 
to the VA and VA benefits who provide those. How do we get to 
rural areas? How, when people are discharged, do they get that 
information? There is a benefit to you being here. I thank you 
very much.
    Mr. Maynor. Thank you.
    Mr. Mrvan. With that, I yield back.
    The Chairman. General Bergman, you are recognized for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Bergman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to get just 
quick demographics of the both of you. How many years active 
duty?
    Mr. Maynor. Fourteen years.
    Mr. Gelardi. Twenty-three, sir.
    Mr. Bergman. Okay. What I heard you say, Mr. Maynor, was, I 
just want to make sure I got this right, on the VSO piece more 
state level? I wanted just to give you a chance to expand on 
that a little bit about what you meant.
    Mr. Maynor. Usually Veterans Affairs is through the state 
level, who hires, I believe. I mean, do not hold me true to it, 
but I believe that is a State Department job. The state, like 
state of Illinois would hire your local VSOs and then assign 
them to the communities.
    Mr. Bergman. Since we have 50 states and 4 territories, the 
model for each state could look a little different based on 
that state's desire and under that state's, you know, commander 
in chief, which is their Governor or their legislative body, as 
to how they structure it. Do you see--and I ask you for both 
your experience, what do you see as the interaction today 
between the veterans at the local level, that person who went 
back to Virginia Beach or somewhere in Illinois or Michigan or 
wherever they went, do you see them as being able to connect 
the dots?
    You know, maybe TAP did not catch it all, you know, because 
if you got 20-plus years in, you are going to look at life one 
way because you walk out the door with a pension. Okay? You 
have now a little bit of income coming in, so you could maybe 
pay your basic bills. When you walk out with less than 20, 
unless there is a disability, you do not have. You got zero 
cash coming in the door. Now you have to figure out what you 
are going to do next, go to work for somebody or start a 
business yourself.
    Any thoughts on what this committee should know from a 
national level because we represent all 50 states and the 4 
territories. Anything you would want to share with us in your 
challenges there?
    Mr. Gelardi. Well, we certainly have very different 
backgrounds and experiences, and I definitely commend you for 
what you have overcome. In my experience, when I was making the 
decision to start a business, it was in a very different field. 
More into providing knowledge-based working, consulting with a 
focus on trying to help solve warfighting challenges that we 
struggled with when we were on active duty. My challenges in 
dealing with how do we offer these capabilities to the 
government was the frustration with working through the 
regulations, the long lead time to work through acquisition 
processes and dealing with a government that does not 
understand small business.
    Mr. Bergman. Government was part of the problem, not part 
of the solution?
    Mr. Gelardi. Absolutely. I honestly feel like we are in a 
battle every day with the government.
    Mr. Bergman. You could not have articulated it any better. 
That is a great way to end this. Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    The Chairman. Representative Ramirez.
    Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman Bost. I think I echo the 
sentiment of my colleagues here and a lot of what you said here 
when we say that veterans are crucial to our local economies, 
both as employees and as owners of small businesses. I want to 
thank you for being here today, for both of you being here.
    I know it is also a sacrifice to leave home, leave the 
business, and then fly to D.C. with a schedule that is never 
really steady, and things have changed. Just want to say thank 
you for being here.
    As I heard the testimony specifically from Mr. Maynor, you 
talked about the challenges of even starting your small 
business. I think it is important for us to understand, as 
elected officials just what are the kind of things that are 
necessary to make it easier for us to support our small 
businesses, particularly our veterans? I have a couple of 
questions specifically for you.
    You talked a little bit about the challenges when you were 
even beginning to open up your business. What would you say was 
the hardest part of starting the business?
    Mr. Maynor. Talk my wife into it would have been the 
hardest part. Second would be just trying to--I mean, we sell 
clothing, so we have to purchase the clothing first to 
wholesale it and sell it back. Just coming up with the money, 
you know, we started looking into grants, started looking into 
the websites, did not come anywhere. We turned to credit cards 
and we started purchasing stuff with credit cards.
    I mean, we are making our payments. We are not taking a 
paycheck. We are re putting it back into our business. I am 
going to continue working at nighttime until I can, but as 
right now, we are just going into debt to get us started. That 
is--I hate debt, so it is not a good word. It does not fit me. 
I like to have everything taken care of, and it is a heartache 
trying to make sure not only if you are paying your employees, 
but also staying on top of the vendors to have the product to 
sell to move forward.
    Ms. Ramirez. We know also when you put things on credit 
card, those credit cards do not wait. That 19 percent Annual 
Percentage Rate (APR) is very real and accumulates, so it is 
really unfortunate. You know, as you think about, particularly 
as a veteran, what are the points, I think, you think of 
outreach and the places where you think veterans can access 
more assistance when thinking of entrepreneurship?
    Mr. Maynor. Well--sorry.
    Ms. Ramirez. Either of you can answer actually.
    Mr. Maynor. If--you know, there is a VA in every community. 
If we just had an office in there that could help veterans with 
questions or guide them to the correct area would be the 
greatest.
    Ms. Ramirez. Yes. What are other things? Maybe this is just 
to follow up in addition to your answer. You know, you hear 
from members here, we anxiously want to figure out what are 
those impediments and how do we address them? What are other 
ways that you think Members of Congress can be helping our 2.5 
million veteran-owned businesses and the many to come?
    Mr. Gelardi. Overwhelmingly, it is the complexity of 
regulatory requirements. The regulations are unknowable. When 
you are very small and you are starting out, it is the biggest 
challenge. It is daunting. There are a lot of really excellent 
people at the Small Business Administration and in the 
acquisition process, in APEX Accelerators and other small 
business assistance centers who, you know, try to help. Most of 
the time, in my experience, the Small Business Administration 
folks are spending more time enforcing compliance than they are 
actually trying to help us. It just becomes this giant time 
suck that is not actually returning, you know, value or 
providing us real assistance in moving forward to become more 
effective and grow our business.
    Ms. Ramirez. Did you want to add anything?
    Mr. Maynor. No.
    Ms. Ramirez. Yes, I want to just echo what you have heard 
from my colleagues here. We have a responsibility. You gave 
everything, you risked everything so that we could be here. 
There is impact and PTSD and all the other challenges and 
family and housing and all the costs associated with it. Making 
sure that small businesses are able to thrive is a priority for 
us. I want you to hear this, that for me, as I think about the 
connection of housing, economic development, small business, it 
all intersects. We have to do better. I appreciate you 
explaining some of those specific ways to do that.
    I am from the State of Illinois, the beautiful State of 
Illinois. I am just also thankful to see another Illinoisan 
with us here today.
    Thank you, Mr. Maynor, and also Mr. Geraldi, for your 
passion and for your dedication to serving our communities, 
particularly for you serving Illinois.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. I am going to do just one follow-up question 
before we go into our closing. I need to ask both of you, when 
you left the service, did you receive the TAP program?
    You see, I came from an era that they did not have a TAP 
program. I tell everybody that my commanding officer tapped me 
on the shoulder and said, see you later. That was it. Was it--
what was your experience with TAP?
    Mr. Gelardi. I did participate in a TAP program. I did not 
know what I did not know. I realize now in hindsight, that that 
was wholly inadequate. We help a lot of other veterans that are 
transitioning now and so we stay in the pulse of the 
experience.
    Big shortcomings with any transition assistance now is 
when, as servicemembers, when we enter the service, we train as 
a team, we go into combat as a team, but you transition alone, 
and you do not really have a network. We build throughout a 
career a huge network of servicemembers, but that network looks 
backward. It does not look forward into business or nonprofits 
or whatever career field you want to move into. You go into it 
alone.
    The Transition Assistance Programs, when you walk out the 
door, they are done with you. There is no follow up. There is 
no knowledge of how people performed, no additional assistance. 
No one is checking in with you 6 months down the road, and 
people do not understand the culture. When they get their first 
opportunity, maybe for a promotion, maybe a new opportunity at 
business, they do not really have mentors or anybody to help 
them. They are alone for the first time trying to navigate it.
    What is a shame about that is we leave those veterans kind 
of sort of out there on their own, but we are also losing an 
opportunity to capture that data, tell a greater story to a 
next generation of recruits. Would not it be amazing if we had 
this data base of success stories that we followed people 
through their transition, that we knew the new impact they were 
making, the new value they had created in their lives and the 
lives of others? When somebody was being recruited, you know, 
we could tell them that story, not just of what their military 
career was going to look like, but how it was going to launch 
them into the next phase of their life. That is all lost 
because the institution, the military, does not look for the 
long-term return on investment.
    Mr. Maynor. I went through the Warrior Transition Unit at 
Carson, Colorado. Hired Heroes did a great job. They came in, 
helped me write a resume, like comrade said. There is a big 
transition difference of the job market in Colorado Springs to 
Murfreesboro, Illinois. Hiring Heroes is not south of Chicago. 
There is no opportunities for the smaller communities.
    It is great to get that training, but it needs to transfer 
to your local area, too. I know we do not have any numbers in 
our area, but just because we do not have numbers does not mean 
the veterans in that area do not need help, too. If we could 
create some programs to help the smaller areas to transit after 
they move to the area, because like I said, the job market is a 
lot bigger difference in Phoenix or Denver or Chicago than it 
is in Small Town, USA.
    The Chairman. Okay. I agree with you, and I am going to 
tell you that we are trying desperately to add to the TAP 
program, but it is a battle between this committee and House 
Armed Services Committee (HASC) because VA, you would think 
that they work well together, VA and DOD, but each one tries to 
protect their own turf, and TAP is the hardest part for us, 
too.
    If you have been through one TAP program, you have seen one 
TAP program. They are all different, and we have got to try to 
get uniformity in between them.
    I want to thank you for being here as the witnesses today, 
especially knowing--leaving your business, coming to 
Washington, DC, flying across the country. Thank you for doing 
that.
    Our veterans contribute immensely to our society and the 
economy here in this United States. We are grateful to the men 
and women who have served this country and are continuing to 
serve throughout their participate--and participation in adding 
to the economy.
    Now, I ask unanimous consent that all members shall have 5 
legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks 
and include any extenuous [sic] material. Hearing no 
objections, there is nobody here, so ordered. The hearing is 
now adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:05 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]  
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
      
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                         A  P  P  E  N  D  I  X


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                    Prepared Statement of Witnesses

                              ----------                              


                   Prepared Statement of Tommy Jones

    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano and Members of the House 
Committee on Veterans' Affairs:
    I am honored to join you today as an Army veteran and the new 
leader of Walmart's Military Programs, to share with the Committee the 
work we are doing to support military families and create opportunities 
with employment, and beyond, for veterans and military spouses. I am 
grateful for your leadership and partnership in honoring our nation's 
veterans' service and sacrifice, and for all you do to aid in their 
transition to civilian life.
    At Walmart, we're committed to supporting those who serve, and we 
have been since the very beginning. Our founder, Sam Walton, served in 
the U.S. Army Intelligence Corps during World War II and brought with 
him the values that define our company to this day. It is that same set 
of values that make us so grateful for our nation's veterans. As we 
reflect on their sacrifices, we look to honor their futures too. 
Honoring service members is in our DNA.
    Our goal is to support veterans and military families during and 
after their service. That's how we've built a culture where veterans 
feel they belong, with benefits for their well-being and an 
understanding that the skills gained in service can transfer to any 
job.
    In 2013, we announced our Veterans Welcome Home Commitment. Since 
then, we've hired more than 533,000 veterans and military spouses and 
promoted nearly 64,000 to roles with greater responsibility and higher 
pay.
    Building on the success of our Veterans Welcome Home Commitment, we 
launched Find a Future at the end of June 2021. Find a Future is a tool 
that guides military-related prospects through an audit of their 
current skills, experience, and education. It fosters conversations 
about a wide range of future possibilities and aspirations, including 
employment, education, and entrepreneurial outcomes, and then teaches 
them how to build a road map and how to make connections with partners 
and resources to help achieve their goals.
    Our efforts have paid off. After more than three and a half million 
engagements with members of the military community through Find a 
Future, we are now expanding the platform and taking what we have 
learned to create opportunities for other communities, including our 
own associates. So, whether you're just starting out, reentering the 
workforce after a gap, looking to earn a career certificate or advanced 
degree, or even thinking about launching a new career or business, 
we'll help you reach your goals.
    Support for our Nation's service members comes in many forms, 
including the knowledge that there's a job waiting for you if the 
military relocates your family. Walmart's Military Family Promise 
guarantees a job at a nearby Walmart store or Sam's Club for all 
military personnel and military spouses employed by the company who are 
transferred by the U.S. military. It allows military spouses, in 
particular, to remain in the same personnel and pay systems, and gives 
them the opportunity to turn jobs into careers.
    Associates and their families also can take comfort in knowing that 
their well-being is among our top priorities. They have access to free 
counseling sessions, coaching, and digital wellness tools to help them 
manage stressors, build resilience, and get the care they need fast.
    Our medical coverage starts at just $33/month and includes virtual 
medical care and psychiatry services for all eligible plan 
participants. Associates and their families also can get discounts on 
fitness plans. Qualifying associates can take advantage of our 401(k) 
match and our associate stock purchase plan. It's all part of our 
commitment to help our associates live better.
    Walmart also has key relationships with organizations focused on 
supporting those who have served in the military. Organizations such as 
Merging Vets and Players (MVP) provide veterans with a new team to 
assist with transition, promote personal development and show them they 
are never alone. Sheep Dog Impact Assistance is another organization 
that offers veterans opportunities for physical activities to foster 
camaraderie, peer-to-peer training to transform struggle into strength 
and volunteer opportunities for continued service.
    Once associates are hired, they have access to one of the world's 
largest learning ecosystems so they can take the valuable skills and 
experiences they bring to their job and expand their horizons even 
further from day one of employment.
    We've launched a career fellowship program, expanding our 
investment and involvement in the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hiring Our 
Heroes programs to offer hiring summits and fellowship opportunities to 
veterans and their families.
    Walmart Academy offers hands-on, immersive learning, using cutting-
edge technology in handheld devices, virtual reality and combining both 
classroom study and training on the sales floor. Last year, the 
Academies helped more than 400,000 associates build the skillset they 
want.
    Through Live Better U (LBU), Walmart associates get access to 
education and training programs to help them excel in their jobs and 
create the career paths they want - 100 percent paid for by Walmart. 
Since the program launched in 2018, associates have saved nearly half a 
billion dollars in tuition costs.
    These are just a few of the ways we strive to ensure all learning 
counts and reflects our commitment to creating a path for every 
associate to learn and grow.
    While I've shared with you what Walmart is doing to recruit, hire 
and retain veteran talent, we're also deeply committed to sourcing 
products from veteran-owned businesses to add to our stores and on-line 
assortment. In fact, in FY23 Walmart spent $1.2 billion with veteran-
owned suppliers.
    As a founding member of the Coalition of Veteran Owned Business, 
Walmart is committed to help grow and support veteran owned businesses 
in communities throughout the U.S. This first-of-its-kind national 
initiative supports the success of veteran, service member, and 
military spouse-owned businesses by connecting them with 
entrepreneurial education and training, small business resources and 
solutions, and commerce and supplier opportunities to help connect and 
educate both sides on doing business together.
    Additionally, Walmart hosted our tenth annual ``Open Call'' event 
October 24 and 25, where we provided entrepreneurs the opportunity to 
meet face-to-face with Walmart and/or Sam's Club and potentially get 
their products on our shelves or on our e--commerce platform - and 
ultimately, in the hands of our customers. Open Call is part of our 
commitment to spend an additional $350 billion over 10 years on items 
made, grown, or assembled in the U.S.
    One of those businesses, Grind Oral Care, sells U.S.-made 
toothpaste to customers across the country in stores and online thanks 
to their appearance at Open Call in 2022. Grind is a small, veteran-
owned business based in Salt Lake City, UT that supports veterans 
experiencing homelessness and gives to nonprofits that work with 
veterans. We're proud to have helped Grind grow.
    To strengthen our support of veterans as they reintegrate into 
their local communities, Walmart and the Walmart Foundation, our 
philanthropic arm, have invested more than $44 million since 2011, in 
job training, education and innovative public/private community-based 
initiatives.
    Walmart also offers a wide range of programs that are available to 
veteran organizations, such as our Spark Good programs, which includes 
our local community grants program and programs designed to engage both 
associates and customers. Now through November 30, we are running a 
campaign through Spark Good Round Up, where Walmart will match customer 
donations 2:1 at checkout online to veteran charitable organizations, 
including up to $2 million for Operation Homefront.
    Walmart and the Walmart Foundation aim to build a skills-based 
talent marketplace that recognizes the rich skills transitioning 
military and veterans bring to the table, unlocking opportunity and 
accelerating economic mobility for them in the civilian sectors. We 
have supported many organizations doing great work with veterans 
through our commitments. Three that I want to call out are Hire Heroes 
USA, the Institute for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF) at 
Syracuse University, and the Manufacturing Institute.
    Hire Heroes USA's singular focus on veteran employment is not only 
working to place veterans with the right job, but also gaining 
incredible insights into what the critical needs are for those 
separating from service. We have supported them with multiple grants 
over the years, with our most recent grant supporting their focus on 
updating internal practices and processes to ensure their team can 
enable each veteran to translate their skills for civilian employment.
    IVMF's AmericaServes program streamlines and digitally connects 
veterans to services in their communities. Through our commitment, we 
have supported AmericaServes programs in multiple communities, and 
continue to provide direct support for their work in Texas.
    The Manufacturing Institute has long since served veterans through 
their Heroes MAKE America program, which has supported service members 
with transitioning into the manufacturing industry. Since 2022, we have 
supported the institute with over $1.5 million in funding to support 
their coordinated effort with Solutions for Information Design and Jobs 
for the Future to modernize how skills are translated from military 
service to civilian occupations. An effort we believe will be 
transferable to other industries.
    As we look to the future, we see great potential to address the 
remaining barriers to successful transition from military service to 
civilian life, but only through collaboration and a shared vision will 
we realize it. We will continue making investments in veteran serving 
organizations. We recognize it is only when government programs and 
initiatives, large and small corporations, and non-profit organizations 
come together that much is possible.
    Thank you for the opportunity to share with the Committee how 
Walmart is supporting the military and veteran communities through a 
strategic mix of employment, education, entrepreneurship, well-being 
programs, and philanthropic efforts. And, again, thank you to the 
Committee for your leadership and partnership in serving the veteran 
community. We remain steadfastly dedicated to this work, now, and into 
the future, and look forward to continuing to evolve and grow our 
approach to best serve veterans and military families. Finally, I'd 
like to conclude by extending my deepest respect and gratitude to my 
fellow veterans for your sacrifice and service.
    I look forward to the opportunity to answer any questions you may 
have.
                                 ______
                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Eric Eversole

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

                  Prepared Statement of Michael McCoy

Opening

    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano and Members of the Committee, 
thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of Verizon and the 
over 8,200 U.S. Veterans and over 500 military spouses we are 
privileged to employ. I am honored to be here today and deeply 
appreciate the Committee's focus on Veteran employment and opportunity.
    My name is Michael McCoy, and I am Head of Military Affairs at 
Verizon. I am a proud third-generation service member. I have served as 
an Officer in the Army National Guard since 2011 and continue to serve 
today. At Verizon, I lead a team of other Veterans to recruit and 
support former military professionals. Serving our Veterans is not just 
a job for me. It is my passion, part of my heritage, and my life's 
work.
    Military service is an honor. But I know that it also presents 
unique challenges. For example, I was deployed when my wife, Nikki, was 
six months pregnant and returned home when my son Owen was 8-months-
old. Military service, by its nature, is all-encompassing and becomes 
part of your identity. For much of a service member's career, your life 
proudly revolves around being a part of the cohesive unit that shares 
in the critical mission of defending the country. Like a separate 
ecosystem, service members work within the military and move up its 
ranks as they excel. They receive health care at military hospitals, 
often live in military housing, buy groceries and other necessities 
from the base commissary and base exchange, and socialize with other 
military families. As a result, the military has its own culture, 
values, uniforms, systems, and even its own language, which is 
notorious for its acronyms. But military service can't last forever, 
and the person you are after transition is different than the one who 
enlisted.
    Few understand the magnitude of the transition from military to 
civilian life. Even though military service requires frequent moves and 
continual change, leaving a life and mission that you know and value 
and stepping into the civilian world is challenging--professionally, 
financially and emotionally. My colleagues and I at Verizon understand 
the immense sacrifices military families make, the stress associated 
with the transition to civilian life, and the tremendous value they 
bring to the workforce. Today, I would like to share how we recruit and 
support Veterans.

Verizon Values Veterans

    At Verizon, we believe that Veterans make our company better. Our 
industry has a long history with the military, dating back to the Bell 
Telephone system and World War I U.S. Signal Corps, and continues a 
symbiotic relationship today. In addition to providing for our national 
defense, the U.S. military is perhaps the greatest job training program 
in the world. It cultivates individuals who are disciplined, skilled, 
and performance-oriented. Former military personnel are seasoned 
leaders, problem solvers and team players with a strong work ethic who 
thrive under pressure, making them ideal employees in the hyper-
competitive communications workplace.
    Military service imparts both hard and soft skills that are highly 
valuable. Those skills include engineering, communications, 
intelligence, cybersecurity, supply chain management, finance and 
flying experience. At Verizon such knowledge translates into a variety 
of critical jobs. For example, we recruit pilots to fly drones for 
disaster response. We seek military-trained engineers to build our 
best-in-class networks and protect them from cybersecurity attacks. We 
also find that Veterans generally excel as project managers, 
particularly in the coordination of supply chains and logistics.
    In addition to technical expertise, Veterans bring important 
interpersonal skills to the table. The military is a melting pot of 
highly qualified candidates from across the country, and requires 
individuals with different backgrounds, cultures and experiences to 
work alongside each other. During their tenure, service members also 
learn situational awareness and understanding of the geopolitical and 
cultural dynamics around the world. This exposure to a wide variety of 
environments trains service members to adapt rapidly to changing 
circumstances. Today, more than ever, these qualities are invaluable in 
the business world. For all of these reasons, we enthusiastically 
recruit, retain, and engage the military community.
    I'm proud to share that Verizon's success in hiring and retaining 
military talent has been repeatedly recognized. We have been a #1 
Military-Friendly company three times and ranked in the top 3 of 
military-friendly companies over the past five years. Verizon has also 
ranked #1 by Best For Vets twice and has received almost every Employer 
Support of the Guard and Reserves award multiple times. In addition, we 
are a two-time recipient of the Vets Index 5 Star employer and two-time 
recipient of the US DOL GOLD Hire Vets Medallion Award. To achieve this 
success, Verizon relies on a three-pronged approach: recruiting, 
retention and support.

Recruiting

    While Veterans are exceptional assets in the workplace, it can be 
challenging to find transitioning service members who are interested in 
working at Verizon and have an applicable skill set. To attract 
separating service members, we established a dedicated web page for 
Veterans and military spouses. See: verizon.com/military careers. This 
page provides information on the skills we seek and the jobs that are 
currently available, along with opportunities to connect at job fairs 
and information sessions. We also invite service members to stay in 
touch as part of our talent network should a job match open in the 
future.
    To further facilitate recruitment of those ready to separate from 
active duty, Verizon works with two programs under the Department of 
Defense (DoD): SkillBridge and Transition Assistance Program (TAP). 
Through SkillBridge, we provide separating military personnel with 
civilian work experience through internships and training during their 
last 180 days of service. To the greatest extent possible, we give 
service members direct training at Verizon that prepares them for open 
positions in the company. Veterans appreciate this path because it 
helps them acclimate to civilian life, relieves them of the job 
searching stress, and allows them to focus on training and development.
    Regarding TAP, we are working to expand our relationship with all 
TAP centers. As you are aware, military personnel separating from 
service engage with TAP officials, who provide civilian career 
counseling. Through TAP, Verizon markets its programs, such as 
apprenticeships and internships. But based on our experience as an 
employer, we believe that TAP may be under-resourced, and there is an 
opportunity to expand its reach and accessibility. For example, 
providing virtual classes on career opportunities in addition to 
current in-person classes would allow potential employers such as 
Verizon to share information more broadly with separating service 
members. It would also be helpful if employers were provided with TAP 
points of contact to enable more timely communication.
    Another valuable recruitment program for Verizon is ``The Hiring 
our Heroes Fellowship'', offered through the U.S. Chamber of Commerce 
Foundation. This fellowship gives Verizon access to a broad talent pool 
that includes transitioning service members, military spouses and 
Veterans.
    Through our partnerships with the DoD and the U.S. Chamber, we have 
provided skills training to over 215 service members to make them 
successful in the communications industry areas of expertise since 
2018. From that group, we have been able to hire 183 SkillBridge or 
Hiring our Heroes Fellows into a wide variety of jobs throughout 
Verizon. I am pleased to report that ninety percent of these 
participants are still with Verizon today, and many have been promoted 
into roles with greater responsibilities.
    We also have strong partnerships with many other Veteran serving 
organizations. For example, we have had success with 50 strong, a 
national, industry-led effort supporting employers and military-
affiliated job seekers. This partnership has been extremely productive 
because 50 strong digitally aggregates Veterans and the broader 
military community into weekly events via teleconference, which allows 
employers to present to a broad group, and then host their own breakout 
rooms. FourBlock, also, has been a terrific partner and one we invest 
in. This organization works to bridge the divide between transitioning 
Veterans and businesses through career readiness programs. Last, we 
support No Greater Sacrifice (NGS). NGS is dedicated to the children of 
our Nation's fallen and wounded service members. It delivers 
scholarships and resources to improve the quality of life for these 
children through the pursuit of higher education and allows them to 
graduate from college debt-free.
    In addition to these programs and partnerships, Verizon seeks out 
former military talent from a variety of other sources. Our recruitment 
team hosts monthly coaching and information sessions for the military 
community to help them better prepare for job searching, resume writing 
and interviewing. We publicize these events on our dedicated military 
career website and through regular emails to our nation-wide and global 
partners. Since 2013, we have hosted or attended over 1,750 virtual and 
in-person events to recruit Veterans.
    Finally, it's important to note that there are also over 100 VA-
recognized, Veteran service organizations across the United States. As 
transitioning service members begin their research, they can become 
inundated by information from organizations trying to help. As 
employers, it can be difficult to effectively break through to these 
organizations to provide service members with information about jobs, 
career fairs, and other opportunities. Having the Veterans 
Administration provide guidance and coordination between organizations 
could help ensure that only the most relevant information is presented 
to job seekers. This effort, in turn, could reduce decision fatigue as 
Veterans pursue opportunities that best match their needs and talents.

Retention and Support

    At Verizon, we believe that retaining our Veteran employees is just 
as important as recruiting them. We do everything we can to ensure 
service members are valued and supported. Verizon's dedicated military 
recruitment team has personally lived through transitioning back to 
civilian life and strives to create an environment conducive to helping 
new hires adjust to a civilian work environment. Verizon never stops 
mentoring and developing former service members so they can thrive and 
advance in their new careers. New hires receive a welcome email to the 
Veteran or the spouse, which provides an explanation of corporate 
resources, a connection to other Veterans, and Employee Resource Group 
information. They also can agree to have a Military Service badge 
placed on their internal profile.
    Service members, like me, are driven by teamwork and achieving a 
collective mission. Verizon's core values of respect, integrity, 
performance excellence and accountability align with military values. 
Veterans also want a continued sense of camaraderie, the opportunity to 
serve others, and to live their values. That is why we established an 
Employee Resource Group within the company called ``VALOR'', which 
stands for ``Veterans and Advocates Leading the Organization 
Responsibly''.
    Verizon VALOR is open to all Verizon employees. It gives Veterans 
and their supporters a forum to connect and build a network of friends 
and colleagues. This group is designed to provide emotional support and 
guidance on career development and advancement. It also encourages 
volunteer projects that provide thousands of hours of Veterans-focused 
community service every year. The projects include supporting homeless 
shelters for Veterans, career coaching for transitioning Special Forces 
service members, sponsoring and participating annually in Veterans Day 
parades, and writing letters to deployed service members. We even have 
Verizon-branded military apparel for employees provided by Call For 
Fire, a Service Disabled Veteran Owned Small Business that donates a 
percentage of its profits to U.S. Veteran-serving nonprofits.
    Verizon and VALOR also coordinate to provide pro bono assistance to 
U.S. military Veterans across the country. Our volunteer attorneys 
provide a myriad of legal support to Veterans. Additionally, we partner 
with law firms and nonprofits to maximize our community impact.

Benefits and Flexibility

    A special aspect of our retention efforts is ensuring that Veterans 
avail themselves of the benefits they have earned. In addition to 
helping service members fully understand and register for their 
existing VA benefits, we diligently track and alert our employees to 
any changes in law or policies that might impact them. For example, 
this year, we partnered with the Veteran Affairs communications team to 
inform all of our Veterans about the PACT (Promise to Address 
Comprehensive Toxics Act of 2022) Act's passage, which was successful 
in increasing the number of ``intent to file.''
    Finally, we give special dispensation for our employees who still 
serve in the National Guard or the Reserves by providing a generous 
military leave policy, including gap pay for up to 36 months, in which 
Verizon pays the difference between an employee's Verizon salary and 
their military pay if the Verizon pay is higher.

Closing

    In closing, I would like to thank you again for holding this 
hearing and for your ongoing support for military Veterans and their 
families. The demands of military life shape a person's character, 
values and worldview. At Verizon, we believe that military experience 
prepares an individual for success and that military talent helps drive 
our company's productivity, innovation and growth. And while we utilize 
and appreciate the existing government programs that connect companies 
like ours with retiring military personnel, there are always ways to 
fine-tune and improve these initiatives. As you consider how to advance 
employment and opportunities for America's Veterans, Verizon stands 
ready to work with you to support the men and women who have bravely 
served our country.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am 
happy to answer any questions you might have.
                                 ______
                                 

                    Prepared Statement of Erin Izen

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

                   Prepared Statement of Joe Gelardi

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                   Prepared Statement of Chris Maynor

    Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Takano, and members of the committee, 
thank you for the opportunity today to provide my remarks on this 
critical issue.
    As a fifteen-year Army Combat Infantry Veteran, with three tours to 
Iraq, I never imagined myself opening a small business. For a 
significant part of my life, I had the terrific opportunity of relying 
on my fellow comrades for support. My life changed once I got out of 
the service, transferring from military life to civilian life. I did 
not have a meaning for my life. If it were not for family and friends, 
I might have been one of those 22 veterans a day we lose to the evil 
side. When you leave the service, you feel like you've lost that 
significant purpose you had in the military. After returning from my 
third and final tour in Iraq, many of my friends and family had already 
started their successful lives, leaving me wondering where to begin 
with mine. I worked a few side jobs over the next couple of years but 
still felt like I had more to offer. In 2017, I married my wife, and 
she showed me that I DID HAVE a purpose and the drive to succeed, not 
only for myself and my family but also for my fellow comrades.
    I started back to school at John A. Logan College receiving my 
degree in Heating and Air in 2018. I worked for an amazing small 
business for almost 5 years. I figured out quickly that I was working a 
job that wasn't fit for my stress level and still not doing what I knew 
I was passionate about. At the same time, I became an active member in 
the local VFW. I moved all the way up in the chairs and became District 
Commander. About that same time, I took a job at John A. Logan College 
in the Heating and Air Department. I have worked there for almost two 
years now on second shift. So, between using my vacation and sick time 
for days off for PTSD reasons, and days for VFW events, helping fight 
for my fellow veterans' benefits, I had NO time for my family and 5 
children.
    I mentioned many times to my wife that I would like to open a men's 
clothing store. I figured if I opened my own business and was having a 
difficult day with my PTSD, I wouldn't risk losing my job taking more 
time off. Finally, after some more convincing, my wife agreed it was 
time to start our own small business, a men's clothing store named 
Daniel Deans, a tribute to my father who recently passed, also a 
veteran.
    We wanted to open a store that offered a variety of men's clothing 
along with accessories like Hurricane Marsh and BURLEBO. We aimed to 
create a place where men could physically interact with the items, try 
them on, and be a local presence in our community. We quickly learned 
its no walk in the park starting up your own business. With all of my 
struggles (TBI and PTSD), the challenge was left to my co-owner and 
lovely wife. She had multiple hour-long phone calls, countless emails 
back and forth with different companies and searching websites claiming 
to have the knowledge for Veterans starting a small business and help 
with funding and different grants. With not understanding any of the 
rules and regulations of all these programs it became difficult to try 
and figure out if we even qualify for any of them. One company even 
told us over the phone to just look over the website, it was all there 
for us to read. We just stopped trying at that point and had to proceed 
with opening the business on our own and out of our own pocket putting 
ourselves in debt.
    Once we started reaching out to different companies, some of which 
are also Veteran owned businesses, we learned that some allow you to 
pay overtime for product/inventory and will give any advice they have 
on opening a small business. There is such a high demand for Veterans 
trying to move forward in life and become business owners. They are 
trying to find that ``new purpose'' in life after the military. A lot 
of these companies do not have a voice behind them, a co-owner like I 
do, to help with these websites and search for all the different grants 
offered. Most startups will just give up like we did and try their best 
to move forward and hope for success.
    Years ago, there used to be more service officers that knew 
everything there was to know about Veteran benefits. Maybe if we took 
things back to those times and focused on getting more service officers 
out there helping other Veterans, we might have more Veteran owned 
businesses. If we develop something for Veterans to help other 
Veterans, we might get a better turn out. I believe civilians do care 
about Veterans, but they do not understand the bond of a Veteran taking 
care of another Veteran. There is no other brotherhood, or sisterhood 
stronger.
    Veteran service officers are under paid and over worked and as a 
result, the reason we don't have many left.
    If we must keep all the resources for grants and funding 
opportunities on a website, I would like to recommend it be developed 
and presented in the way we say in the military: KISS (Keep it simple 
stupid). A user-friendly website with three buttons: Veterans, Disabled 
Veterans, and Women Veterans. The user could easily click their 
category, fill out the application paperwork and apply for grants and 
funding automatically.
    I am extremely thankful for everyone that has helped us along the 
way as we opened our small business. We appreciate your time today, 
giving me the opportunity to further discuss the struggles of trying to 
open a Veteran Owned business.

    Thank you,

    Chris Maynor / Co-owner Daniel Deans, Murphysboro Illinois
    Chairman Bost, this concludes my testimony. Again, thank you and 
Ranking Member Takano for the opportunity to testify on this important 
issue before the committee. I am prepared to take any questions you or 
the committee members may have.

                                 [all]