[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON
H.R. 522; H.R. 2830; H.R. 3601; H.R. 3722;
H.R. 3738; H.R. 3816; H.R. 5190; H.R. 5702;
H.R. 5785; H.R. 5913; H.R. 5914; H.R. 5956; AND H.R. XXXX
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HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-36
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via http://govinfo.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
54-319 WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON VETERANS' AFFAIRS
MIKE BOST, Illinois, Chairman
AUMUA AMATA COLEMAN RADEWAGEN, MARK TAKANO, California, Ranking
American Samoa, Vice-Chairwoman Member
JACK BERGMAN, Michigan JULIA BROWNLEY, California
NANCY MACE, South Carolina MIKE LEVIN, California
MATTHEW M. ROSENDALE, SR., Montana CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire
MARIANNETTE MILLER-MEEKS, Iowa FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
GREGORY F. MURPHY, North Carolina SHEILA CHERFILUS-MCCORMICK,
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida Florida
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin CHRISTOPHER R. DELUZIO,
MORGAN LUTTRELL, Texas Pennsylvania
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
KEITH SELF, Texas GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
JENNIFER A. KIGGANS, Virginia NIKKI BUDZINSKI, Illinois
Jon Clark, Staff Director
Matt Reel, Democratic Staff Director
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC OPPORTUNITY
DERRICK VAN ORDEN, Wisconsin, Chairman
NANCY MACE, South Carolina MIKE LEVIN, California Ranking
C. SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida Member
JUAN CISCOMANI, Arizona FRANK J. MRVAN, Indiana
ELIJAH CRANE, Arizona MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
DELIA C. RAMIREZ, Illinois
Pursuant to clause 2(e)(4) of Rule XI of the Rules of the House, public
hearing records of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs are also
published in electronic form. The printed hearing record remains the
official version. Because electronic submissions are used to prepare
both printed and electronic versions of the hearing record, the process
of converting between various electronic formats may introduce
unintentional errors or omissions. Such occurrences are inherent in the
current publication process and should diminish as the process is
further refined.
C O N T E N T S
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THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2023
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Derrick Van Orden, Chairman........................ 1
The Honorable Mike Levin, Ranking Member......................... 3
WITNESSES
Panel 1
Mr. Joseph Garcia, Executive Director, Education Services,
Department of Veterans Affairs................................. 4
Accompanied by:
Mr. Nick Pamperin, Executive Director, Veterans Readiness &
Employment Services, Department of Veterans Affairs
Mr. James Ruhlman, Deputy Director, Education Services,
Department of Veterans Affairs
Ms. Margarita Devlin, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Operations
and Management, Department of Labor............................ 5
Panel 2
Ms. Kristina Keenan, Deputy Director, National Legislative
Service, Veterans of Foreign Wars.............................. 23
Mr. Marquis Barefield, Assistant National Legislative Director,
Disabled American Veterans..................................... 25
Ms. Tammy Barlet, Vice President of Government Affairs, Student
of Veterans of America......................................... 26
Mr. Joseph W. Wescott II, Ed.D, Legislative Director, National
Association of State Approving Agencies, Inc................... 28
Mr. Michael Hazard, Veterans in Piping Program Manager, United
Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and
Pipe Fitting Industry of the United States and Canada.......... 29
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements Of Witnesses
Mr. Joseph Garcia Prepared Statement............................. 43
Ms. Margarita Devlin Prepared Statement.......................... 53
Ms. Kristina Keenan Prepared Statement........................... 58
Mr. Marquis Barefield Prepared Statement......................... 62
Clarifying Statement of Marquis Barefield........................ 66
Ms. Tammy Barlet Prepared Statement.............................. 68
Mr. Joseph W. Wescott II, Ed.D Prepared Statement................ 77
Mr. Michael Hazard Prepared Statement............................ 79
APPENDIX--continued
Statements For The Record
The American Legion.............................................. 81
Veterans Education Project....................................... 94
Veterans Education Success....................................... 95
Commercial Vehicle Training Association.......................... 102
National Association of State Workforce Agencies................. 104
Military-Veterans Advocacy, Inc.................................. 106
LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON
H.R. 522; H.R. 2830; H.R. 3601; H.R. 3722;
H.R. 3738; H.R. 3816; H.R. 5190; H.R. 5702;
H.R. 5785; H.R. 5913; H.R. 5914; H.R. 5956; AND H.R. XXXX
----------
THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 2, 2023
U.S. House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,
Committee on Veterans' Affairs,
Washington, D.C.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:04 p.m., in
room 360, Cannon House Office Building, Hon. Derrick Van Orden
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Present: Representatives Van Orden, Mace, Franklin,
Ciscomani, Crane, Levin, Mrvan, McGarvey, and Ramirez.
Also present: Representatives Edwards, James, Moylan,
Budzinski, Kiggans, and Nunn.
OPENING STATEMENT OF DERRICK VAN ORDEN, CHAIRMAN
Mr. Van Orden. Good afternoon. The subcommittee will come
to order. I welcome the witnesses and subcommittee members, as
well as a few distinguished members that have asked to
participate in this legislative hearing today. They will be
here at their convenience.
As I have often in the subcommittee, we operate in a
nonpartisan way and I am very proud of my Republican and
Democrat colleagues for continuing to do so.
We have 13 important legislative proposals to consider here
today, and not all the proposals will move forward in this
process, unfortunately. The purpose of this hearing is to hear
from folks with expertise on assisting veterans about the
benefits and shortcomings the various pieces of legislation.
Without thorough agency and stakeholder insight the
subcommittee would be unable to move several important pieces
of legislation so far this Congress. I look forward to hearing
from our witnesses today on their thoughts on the bills that
have been noticed.
A number of these proposals seek to improve the education
experience for America's veterans and make it easier for
veterans to receive accurate information about their options
for using the GI Bill benefits and ensure that they get the
best bang for their buck with the GI Bill. As a veteran who
served for this Nation for over 26 years, I know how important
the GI Bill is for opening doors for transitioning service
members to become productive members of society following their
service.
I specifically want to highlight my friend and colleague,
Mr. Ciscomani's proposal, the Expanding Access For Online
Veteran Students Act. For years, the subcommittee has heard
from many student veterans about how the online monthly housing
allowance (MHA) is too low and it puts many student veterans
who need to take online classes during the summer because they
have a family, a job, or not near the college, at a
disadvantage and struggling to make ends meet. Mr. Ciscomani's
proposal would address these concerns head on for student
veterans who take summer courses. It would also allow students
attending universities in person in the fall and spring to not
have to worry about putting food on the table during the
summer. With skyrocketing inflation and the cost of living
higher than ever, this bill will help fix and ensure student
veterans have access to the resources they need, and I am happy
to be one of an original co-sponsors on this legislation.
We will also consider bills to improve suicide prevention
and outreach services and advance the home loan program.
We will also consider H.R. 5913. My bill will eliminate
bureaucratic red tape and help the lack of accountability that
veterans are met with when seeking employment assistance. While
this bill would move Department of Labor-Veterans Employment
and Training Services (DOL VETS) to a VA, it would not lead to
employees being fired or the unions lacking representation.
Instead, this proposal will allow for better accountability and
oversight between Congress and DOL Vets and ensure the agency
is here to serve its veterans first and put everything else
aside.
Finally, we will hear from stakeholders at the VA about the
idea of a fourth administration. Over the last few years, we
have seen Veterans Benefits Administration's (VBA's) number of
employees dramatically increase, however, the subcommittee
still hears significant concerns about the quality service
delivered to veterans from the VBA. To that end, I am going to
be asking the VA to provide the subcommittee with a detailed
breakdown of employees at Veterans Benefits Administration
assigned to address the employment and education needs to our
veterans. I think it is very important that the committee
understand how these resources are prioritized. Essentially, I
just need a list of troop to task--just in military parlance.
I do have grave reservations about several--excuse me--I
have reservations about several of their proposals on the
agenda today and the witness testimony in question. Members of
the subcommittee will ask today--will hopefully address some of
these issues so members can make informed decisions about these
bills.
We look forward to hearing from the members who have
introduced these proposals, as well as our witnesses on how we
can continue to improve these bills and create a more economic
create more economic opportunities for veterans.
I will now yield to my ranking member for 5 minutes for his
opening remarks.
OPENING STATEMENT OF MIKE LEVIN, RANKING MEMBER
Mr. Levin. Thanks so much, Chairman Van Orden, for holding
this hearing. Important hearing, 13 pieces of legislation in
Congress, including this committee. We have got some lost time
last few weeks. We are making up for it, and I am absolutely
thrilled about that. We have got some really important bills
here that we need to get to the floor.
One in particular, H.R. 3848, the Home Act, which will mean
thousands of veterans once again being able to travel to
medical appointments and be able to receive assistance from VA
as winter approaches. Similarly, eager to advance many of the
bills before the subcommittee this afternoon, including my
legislation, the Veterans Assistance for Loan Origination
Relief, or VALOR Act, pretty good acronym, to make home
ownership more accessible for transitioning service members
with disabilities.
Under current policies, veterans who receive a disability
rating after closing on their home may be refunded the VA Home
Loan Funding Fee. However, transitioning service members with a
pending pre-discharge claim at the time of closing are not
eligible for a refund if they later receive a rating. The VALOR
Act would make these individuals eligible for a refund,
eliminating this disparity. In doing so, it will support
disabled service members transitioning out of the military and
setting a strong foundation for their civilian lives.
Also on the agenda is Representative Budzinski's H.R. 5785.
This legislation would open up the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM
Scholarship Program to more veterans pursuing further education
in science, technology, engineering, and math. This program has
had exceptionally low participation due to overly restrictive
guidelines limiting student veterans opportunities.
I want to thank the chairman for also including H.R. 3738
in today's hearing, which I introduced with Representative
Wenstrup to establish a fourth administration within VA to
focus on veteran housing, education, and other benefits. Brad
and I have been working on this for quite a while. This bill
would more closely align VA with how our committee delineates
veterans policy issues and elevate economic programs at the
undersecretary level, bolstering oversight of these benefits so
they can be delivered more effectively.
I do want to raise some concerns regarding the legislation
to move DOL Vets programs to VA. The Department of Labor is our
government's best place for finding employment resources and
has been effective in running the programs within its Veterans
Employment and Training Service. Some will remember that when
this committee advocated for moving the responsibility for
service member transition from Department of Defense (DoD) to
VA, we highlighted that DoD did not share the mission or goals
of these programs, and that is simply not true for employment
and DOL Vets.
Finally, I want to address a proposal to provide full
monthly housing allowance for online learning for student
veterans. We have got to continue making progress when it comes
to providing veterans with access to education, and COVID
showed the value in online learning opportunities. Research has
shown clearly that you cannot fully replicate the experience of
in person learning with online learning. That is true for
veterans, it is true for everybody. I have two young kids at
home, so I can attest to this one. I hope that as we discuss
the Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act, we look
at how we can improve learning opportunities, not drive more
students to lower performing programs.
I look forward to our work today and moving forward to
advance the strongest proposals to full committee as quickly as
possible. My thanks again to our chairman for holding today's
hearing, and I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
In accordance with committee rules, I ask unanimous consent
that Representative Edwards from North Carolina be permitted to
participate in today's subcommittee hearing.
Without objection.
I will now introduce the witness panel.
Our first witness is Mr. Joseph Garcia, the Executive
Director of Education Services at the Department of Veterans
Affairs. Mr. Garcia is accompanied by Nick Pamperin, executive
director of Veterans Readiness and Employment (VR&E) Services,
and Mr. James Ruhlman, the deputy director of Education
Services. Our second witness is Ms. Margarita Devlin, deputy
assistant secretary for operations and management for Veterans
Employment and Training Services at the Department of Labor.
I will now swear in the witnesses.
[Witnesses sworn]
Mr. Van Orden. Let the record reflect the witnesses have
answered in the affirmative.
I ask the witnesses and members today to respect the 5
minute rule. I am just going to say this, you guys know the
deal, you have been here long enough that everybody stops at 5
minutes. Thank you for that.
Mr. Garcia, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony from the Department of Veterans Affairs.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH GARCIA
Mr. Garcia. Good afternoon. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking
Member Levin, members of subcommittee, thank you for the
opportunity to discuss pending legislation that would affect
VA's programs and services.
With me is Mr. Nick Pamperin, executive director, Veteran
Readiness and Employment Service, and Mr. James Ruhlman, deputy
director, Education Service.
Mr. Chairman, with 12 bills on the agenda, I will highlight
several in my oral statement as we have provided detailed
comments in the full testimony to include areas of support and
concern.
VA would support, if amended, section 2 of the Improving
Service Member Transition to Reduced Veteran Suicide Act.
Currently, VA Solid Start, or VAST, employees conduct
personalized conversations tailored to the unique needs of
recent separated service members to increase awareness and use
of VA benefits and services. VA has concerns that the bill may
restrict the intent of the VAST program. VA would support, if
amended, the draft bill that waives the loan fee for a veteran
obtaining a VA guaranteed loan based on the date of the
veteran's pre-discharge medical examination rather than on the
date of a rating or memorandum rating for disability
compensation. This would establish an earlier point for a
veteran to be treated as receiving VA compensation for home
loan purposes. VA supports, but is concerned that it could
result in a complex back end refund process that would be
confusing for veterans, service members, lenders, and VA
employees, and that the bill could lead to an unsustainable
financial position.
VA does not support H.R. 3738 that would establish a new
Veterans Economic Opportunity and Transition Administration. VA
appreciates Congress' focus on improving services and resources
offered by these programs, however, the current VBA structure
reflects the undersecretary for benefits overall responsibility
that does include programs related to economic opportunity and
transition, as well as compensation, pension, survivors
benefits, and insurance. The VBA portfolio forms a suite of
resources that veterans can rely on.
VA supports the Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver
License Act. VA believes approval of a course offered at a
branch with less than a 2 year operation period under certain
conditions would provide more training opportunities for
veterans, boost employment in this occupational area, and still
maintain state approved agency authority and oversight.
VA supports the Deliver for Veterans Act. This is a
veteran-centric bill that potentially increases the automobile
or other conveyance allowance for veterans. Amending the law to
include the shipping costs would remove a cost burden to any
veteran utilizing this benefit.
Finally, VA would also support, if amended, to establish an
amount payable for the monthly housing allowance under the post
9/11 GI Bill for certain distance learners enrolled during the
summer.
Mr. Chairman, as always, VA is open to collaboration with
you and the committee to ensure we are providing world class
benefits that our veterans have earned and deserve. My
colleagues and I would be glad to answer any questions you or
member of the subcommittee may have.
[The Prepared Statement Of Joseph Garcia Appears In The
Appendix ]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Garcia. The written statement
of Mr. Garcia will be entered into the hearing record.
Ms. Devlin, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony.
STATEMENT OF MARGARITA DEVLIN
Ms. Devlin. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden and Ranking
Member Levin and distinguished members of the subcommittee.
Thank you for the opportunity to testify at today's hearing.
The mission of the Department of Labor Veterans Employment
and Training Service is to prepare America's veterans, service
members, and military spouses for meaningful careers, provide
them with employment opportunities and resources, promote their
employment rights, and protect their employment rights. Today,
the subcommittee is considering the Consolidating Veterans
Employment Services for Improved Performance Act of 2023, a
bill that would transfer VETS from Department of Labor to the
Department of Veterans Affairs and likewise transfer the
administration of the Jobs for Veterans State Grant, the
Homeless Veteran Reintegration Program, the employment related
portion of the Transition Assistance (TAP) Program, the DOL's
Uniform Services Employment Reemployment Rights Act enforcement
responsibilities, and other related responsibilities. DOL
strongly opposes this bill.
DOL is the lead Federal department for employment,
training, and worker protection programs with extensive
resources and institutional expertise in those services which
cannot be replicated elsewhere. VETS is closely integrated with
and depends on DOL staff and systems across the department to
function. This includes VETS staff that are an integrated part
of the public workforce system, which is administered by
Department of Labor's Employment and Training Administration
and includes nearly 2,300 American Job Centers across the
country. These one-stop locations offer a broad range of career
wraparound services to the public, such as job training
programs, unemployment insurance, childcare assistance, and
many other types of services with priority of services for
veterans.
DOL is also one of the largest and most experienced grant
making departments within the Federal Government, and our grant
officers are a part of the Employment and Training
Administration's Office of Grants and Management. Our highly
specialized Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment
Rights Act (USERRA) compliance staff similarly work hand in
hand with the Solicitor's Office.
VETS depends on and closely collaborates with many other
departmental labor agencies and cannot properly function
without all the staff, resources, IT, and data systems, and
other support provided by and situated throughout the
department, which cannot be replicated at VA. If VETS is moved
to the VA, then veterans will lose a significant voice within
the public workforce system as there would be no longer an
agency within the Department of Labor that prioritizes and has
the expertise needed to speak on behalf of this military
community.
DOL VETS has also been highly successful in accomplishing
our mission with positive performance outcomes for our
programs. My written testimony details our successes at great
length, but in total, across our programs, DOL Vets
successfully serves over 440,000 veterans, service members, and
military spouses each year. The data shows that all DOL Vets
employment and compliance programs are providing historically
high performance outcomes. These outcomes are a direct result
of the knowledge and hard work of DOL employees and of the
processes and relationships that we have built within the
department. There is no evidence that moving VETS to the VA
would improve efficiency or effectiveness of our programs. On
the contrary, it would be incredibly disruptive to our programs
and the people we serve. The focus and time of DOL leaders and
staff and the resources of our agency would immediately shift
away from our successful institution and toward the task of
implementing this costly transition to the VA.
I know that we share a passion and commitment for serving
veterans and military families. Regardless of the eventual
outcome of this legislation being considered, I want every
member to know that I will continue to work with you and your
staff, as always, and stakeholders to improve and continue to
improve our programs.
Thank you for this opportunity to testify today, and I will
happily answer any questions that you have.
[The Prepared Statement Of Margarita Devlin Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Devlin. The written statement
of Ms. Devlin will be entered into the hearing record.
We are now going to proceed to questioning and I now
recognize myself for 5 minutes.
Mr. Garcia, by the way, you guys know the deal, I read all
your written testimony. It is great. Even though I am talking
to Kate here, it is about some details, but I have read it all
and it is very thorough, and I appreciate the fact that you put
a significant amount of work into that. Mr. Garcia, your VA
testimony states that the VBA's portfolio is thriving. Could
you briefly go into a little bit more detail specifically
centered around the word thriving?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, we are very proud of what we do at VBA,
and some of the numbers that we have seen Fiscal Year 2023 are
record breaking. I cannot speak for all the business lines, but
I do believe in Education Service though we may have a
disagreement on certain things, but the GI Bill to me is
working for our veterans and for our school certifying
officials (SCO). We just passed the 3 millionth enrollment in
Enrollment Manager. I can get into more details, but I do
believe the record shows that VBA is thriving.
Mr. Van Orden. Sir, the last time that you came here and
testified on behalf of the VA, we were discussing this, the
issues with the subcommittee, and I just--I cannot agree with
the word thriving.
For instance, on August 17, a ranking member and I, as well
as the Subcommittee on Technology and Modernization, sent a
letter regarding our concepts of the Digital GI program. This
letter had a deadline for September 15--which was the
anniversary of the invasion of Inchon, in case you are in
history buff--yet, we did not get a response until nearly a
month after that on October 10. Maybe we have different
definitions of the word thriving, Mr. Garcia.
If we ask you for a product and we give a deadline and it
takes more than or just under a month to get that back over the
deadline, I do not think that you guys are operating in an
efficient manner and that has shown a cascading effect
throughout several of these programs. I mean could you agree
that that is a truthful statement.
Mr. Garcia. For that one time situation, I would agree,
sir, but I do not think that conveys the entire year that we
have had in Fiscal Year 2023, for example. Earlier I did accept
responsibility for that one situation.
Mr. Van Orden. All right. Creating a fourth admin,
essentially, in the VBA to handle economic opportunity issues
would create accountability to make sure it does not happen
again.
I have some concerns about the government bureaucracy. I
actually have a lot of concerns about government bureaucracy,
but it is clear that there is something with the education
program that might benefit from more attention at a higher
level of the VA. One area that might benefit from a higher
level of attention is the enrollment manager. VA has touted its
huge success, however, the subcommittee has heard that over 50
percent of school certifying officials have problems with the
system and our staff has witnessed these problems firsthand.
That is a significant amount, Mr. Garcia. I just want you to
understand that we have a different understanding of thriving,
again, and I think success and a 50 percent failure rate is
certainly not successful, and that being able to have a
different group that solely focuses on this at a higher level
would be beneficial. I understand that you oppose that. Could
you tell me briefly why?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, you mentioned enrollment manager. Again, I
have a different perspective. We actually asked for a survey
through our NAPA partner--I think you asked for it. The 21 top
concerns with enrollment manager, the top 10 I briefed this a
few weeks ago at a conference. The top ten concerns with
enrollment manager, nine out of the ten were already addressed
with releases going back to May. Maybe there is a communication
gap. Nine out of the ten issues that were raised were
addressed. And the number one issue is also being addressed for
a December release. I would have a different perspective when
it comes to enrollment manager. I hear more positive news than
maybe you hear. Mr. Ruhlman and I have visited SCOs at
different conferences, probably over a thousand SCOs. I get a
different perspective, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
Ms. Devlin, can you tell me the funding level of the
Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and how these funds are
being distributed? Have any of these funds been redirected from
this program without our knowledge?
Ms. Devlin. Thank you for the question.
The budget for Fiscal Year 2023 for the Homeless Veterans'
Reintegration Program (HVRP) was $65.5 million, and that
includes payments for obligating grants to HVRP grantees, it
includes technical assistance, it includes stand downs, it
includes information technology infrastructure for the program.
Without your knowledge, you know, sir, we did transfer funds,
but we did notify the appropriate committee per requirements.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
My time has expired.
I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for 5 minutes.
Mr. Levin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Garcia, in your testimony you estimate that the
Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act, that is my
friend, Mr. Ciscomani's bill, would cost $3.5 billion dollars
over 10 years. Does that estimate include behavior changes from
GI Bill students? Can you explain what changes you would expect
if Mr. Ciscomani's bill became law?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, so the bill, the way it is presented is
for summer programs, right? We do have concerns what does that
mean, because in our language, we have summer term summer
session. We need some clarity on how summer programs are
defined, because, as you know, we have the traditional schools
that have the spring, summer, and then the fall, what about
schools that, for example, have 8 week terms, or rolling
enrollment? I have seen that as well. We need more clarity on
exactly how that would work in terms of summer programs, for
example.
Mr. Levin. Do you think the bill might incentivize students
to take online classes instead of in person classes?
Mr. Garcia. If you look at the top 20 schools, for example,
a lot of them already are online, Purdue, et cetera. I think
those programs are already popular for various reasons. Adult
learners tend to want to take online programs, so they are
already popular. About 37 percent of those receiving monthly
housing allowance, for example, are receiving the online rate.
That is a pretty high percentage already receiving the online
MHA rate.
Mr. Levin. Got it. I think the University of Arizona in his
district, I think, is one of those looking to take over. It is
also my wife's alma mater. He is not here to defend the U of A.
I will turn to Ms. Devlin. In your testimony on the bill to
transfer DOL VETS programs to VA, you point to a likely
disruption in relationships with employers, workforce
development agencies, and schools. Can you elaborate a bit on
why that is the case and how that will impact veterans?
Ms. Devlin. Yes, thank you for the question.
Department of Labor VETS funds staff that are integrated
into the American workforce system. As such, we are connected
to all of the supportive resources that an individual might
need, and this includes veterans who would otherwise not be
eligible for VA services. Because of our eligibility categories
being different, any veteran who walks in our door, regardless
of their character of service, regardless of how long they
served, will be eligible for assistance at an American Job
Center. If they have significant barriers to employment, they
are also eligible for the intensive case management services.
We are also integrated across the Department. For example,
when we are investigating a USERRA complaint where a Guard or
Reservist has had employment issues with his or her employer,
we have the Solicitor's Office, which has specific expertise in
the law around protection for employer rights. That is not
something that exists in VA right now. When you think about all
of those things, our connectivity to employers and schools and
everything is associated with all of those factors, and those
connective tissues.
Mr. Levin. Appreciate that very much.
You also noted that the American Job Centers conduct
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) eligibility
determinations.
Ms. Devlin. Yes.
Mr. Levin. It is something I was not aware of. I am
curious, how long have they been doing this? Then do you have
any data on how many screenings take place every year or how
many individuals receive nutrition assistance as a result?
Ms. Devlin. I do not have those numbers here with me, and I
would have to come back to you with how long it is been. I can
tell you I started as a rehabilitation counselor in 1995, back
when I worked for the VA, and I remember sending veterans to
the DOL American Job Center to work with their Disabled
Veterans' Outreach Program (DVOP) to get such supportive
services.
Mr. Levin. I think it would be great if you take that back
and we get those numbers. I think that would be helpful for us
to understand the scope of that work.
Mr. Garcia, I will turn back to you on the same bill
regarding DOL VETS. The testimony from DOL notes that USERRA
compliance staff works closely with DOL's Office of the
Solicitor, which has extensive expertise in the nuances of
employment law. Because the Office of the Solicitor is not
specific to DOL VETS, my understanding is that it would not be
transferred under this bill. My question to you is, does VA
have an equivalent office that would be able to assist with
these important USERRA cases?
Mr. Garcia. Mr. Pamperin, can you take that one?
Mr. Pamperin. I appreciate the question, sir.
Under the current construct, the USERRA legal department
resides in DOL. We do not have that within VA.
Mr. Levin. That is a no?
Mr. Pamperin. Right. Correct, no.
Mr. Levin. Right. That is important for us to understand.
10 seconds left, look at that. I will yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Florida, Mr.
Franklin, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Devlin, you previously served as the Principal Deputy
Undersecretary for Benefits at VA. In that role, you would have
been tasked with managing both VA readiness and employment
programs. Having served in both VA and DOL VETS, which program
do you feel is better equipped to serve the specific needs of
vets related to employment needs?
Ms. Devlin. Well, sir, I do not think I can answer that
question the way that you have asked it. What I will tell you
is they serve different veterans with different eligibilities.
For veteran readiness and employment, a veteran has to have a
service-connected disability to qualify, versus the American
Job Center and the clients that we serve do not have to have a
service-connected disability to receive services. It is sort of
like comparing apples to oranges in terms of the difference of
populations that we can serve. We work together, which is the
beauty of it. A VR&E eligible veteran who needs extra
employment assistance or wraparound services, we work together.
We have an Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in place to work
together with the Veteran Readiness and Employment program, we
have a monthly work group that meets, and even at the executive
level, we meet with all VBA leaders of the Economic Opportunity
Suite with my leaders at DOL VETS to make sure we are
integrating and looking for opportunities where we can
collaborate more.
Mr. Franklin. It all comes down to really whether it was
just a service-connected disability or not, as to whether--I
mean given a preference of which direction you would refer
someone, would you feel more comfortable referring a veteran to
one program or the other?
Ms. Devlin. In many cases, I would refer them to use both
programs if they are eligible for both.
Mr. Franklin. Okay.
Ms. Devlin. Yes, so they just have different eligibilities.
If a veteran does not have a service-connected disability, I
would absolutely send them to the American Job Center. I
actually asked my son to go when he got out of the Marine Corps
to go to the American Job Center for support.
Mr. Franklin. Okay. Do you think there is any overlap
between the programs?
Ms. Devlin. There is no overlap, but they are complementary
to each other, so they are different. You have got
rehabilitation counselors, which I will defer to my colleague
here if he wants to elaborate on the VR&E program, but
rehabilitation counselors who provide a different array of
services than a DVOP who is really focused on the employment
piece and making sure the connectivity happens with all the
wraparound services. They are related and connected and
complementary, but not overlapping.
Mr. Franklin. Okay, well, thank you.
Mr. Pamperin, if you could expand on that a little bit, I
would appreciate it.
Mr. Pamperin. Absolutely, sir.
Within the Veteran Readiness and Employment Program, you
are assigned a counselor, and you heard Ms. Devlin talk about
over 400,000 veterans and service members and family members
that they serve within the VR&E program. It is a shade over
130,000 annually is what we serve, and it is designed for
employment at the end goal. The counseling occurs with the
veteran as they are going through, in most cases, a traditional
4 year college or university that goes through the retraining.
One thing I would like to just state as far as the
collaborative relationship that we have, because of DOL's
connectivity, in 2021 we launched an apprenticeship pilot, a
highly underutilized pilot with our partners at DOL VETS.
Because of that partnership, we have seen the apprenticeship
program grow by 30 percent since 2021. That is due to the
interconnectivity that we have as DOL VETS and VR&E.
Mr. Franklin. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you.
The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Kentucky, Mr.
McGarvey, for 5 minutes.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all so
much for being here. Really appreciate it.
Again, this is a committee where we care about our
veterans, we care about how they are taken care of. I know you
all share that goal and we want to make sure they continue to
get the best benefits that they have earned and they deserve.
One of the bills I wanted to turn to today is one that I
know I am a co-sponsor of. I think that the sponsor might be
here as well. It is the Student Veteran Work Study
Modernization Act. This is a bill that will provide work study
for veterans who are at least a half time basis, meaning more
vets from all economic backgrounds can access better schooling
or vocation training while trying to make ends meet along the
way. Something we know happens frequently, and we see,
certainly in my district in Louisville, Kentucky.
Mr. Garcia, the VA recommends that H.R. 3601 be made
permanent rather than the pilot program that is proposed right
now. Can you explain why making this program permanent is
important?
Mr. Garcia. Yes, sir.
Over 6,000 use the Work Study program currently, and
certainly reducing it to half time would increase the access.
The 5 year pilot, I compare it to the Vet Tech Program, another
program that you are familiar with that is also a pilot. What
tends to happen toward the end of that pilot period, both the
training providers and the applicants may get confused or do
not pursue it because you have an end date to it. That would be
the reason why, using that example, why, if it was made
permanent, I think it would have less confusion, especially
toward the end of that 5 year pilot.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you. I agree with that.
Ms. Devlin, I want to turn to the work of DOL VETS and
appreciate the work DOL VETS is doing to make sure that our
veterans do have employment when they come home, something that
is so important as our veterans come back into civilian life.
One area I want to highlight that we could collaborate more
on, as I understand it, currently less than 2 percent of post
9/11 GI Bill recipients utilize the on-the-job training option
for their training pathway to a family sustaining career. Can
you elaborate on DOL VETS efforts to promote apprenticeships
for veterans, service members, and military spouses, including
through the on the job training (OJT) programs?
Ms. Devlin. Yes, sir. I can. Thank you for the question.
We work with employers, and one of the things we have in
Department of Labor, of course, is the Office of
Apprenticeship, which lends its expertise to VETS. We have
employees in our own organization that have a really good
understanding of it. We have a Veteran Employment Outreach
Program, and what we do is we connect with employers and help
them to understand how to develop apprenticeships. Then if they
are interested in the GI Bill, as we have a really good
collaborative relationship with VA, we can help connect them,
help them to understand how to become eligible for a registered
apprenticeship, which then makes them eligible for the veteran
to use their GI Bill.
As Mr. Pamperin mentioned, we have also worked with the
VR&E Division because it is important for a vocational
rehabilitation counselor to understand that an apprenticeship
is not what it used to be. Right. There is lots of
apprenticeship opportunities to help veterans see the value, if
that is a path that they would be interested in. We have helped
them to connect more employers as well.
Then, of course, we work with DoD SkillBridge and DoD
United States Military Apprenticeship Program (USMAP) to also
make sure that employers are understanding how to reach
transitioning service members before they get out of the
military to connect them into employment through
apprenticeship.
Mr. McGarvey. Appreciate that.
What do you think is the rationale, in our remaining time,
why it is such a low number, why that number is at 2 percent?
What do you think we can do to get that up or help you all to
bring that number up?
Ms. Devlin. I think part of it is education and helping
individuals, the service members and veterans themselves, to
understand that there are high wages to be earned through
apprenticeship. I think there is sometimes a misunderstanding
about what apprenticeship is, what kind of careers you can
choose from, and so that education needs to happen. Also, I
think using the GI Bill for college, which is sort of the more
traditionally accepted route, does result in a different
housing allowance than if you go through the apprenticeship or
an OJT option. I think sometimes that can be a partial reason
because you need living wages, living expenses.
Mr. McGarvey. Yes, I think that is an important point you
just brought up, so I want to hone in on it for a second. What
is that difference in housing allowance? If you are looking at
a traditional 4 year degree or a training program? We have got
18 seconds.
Ms. Devlin. I do not have the exact answer for that, but
they are different. I know we have VA colleagues here who may
be able to answer that more effectively. But it is versus the
full-time rate, it is based on the difference between
journeymen and trainee wages, from what I understand.
Mr. McGarvey. Thank you very much.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. McGarvey.
The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Arizona Mr.
Crane, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Crane. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Garcia, there is a lot of discussion around the Veteran
Improvement Commercial Driver's License Act of 2023 and whether
the legislation as written would allow Commercial Driver's
License (CDL) schools to establish a branch campus across state
lines. Does VA interpret the legislation to allow schools to
open branch campuses over state lines? If so, what safeguards
are in place to ensure that the State Approving Agencies (SAAs)
are still involved in the approval of these institutions?
Mr. Garcia. Sure.
The way the bill is written, if the branch follows the same
curriculum as the main location, if you will, we definitely
believe that SAAs ought to be involved. As I understand it, if
it crosses state lines, that SAA at the other State would have
to provide that approval for the location in the other State
besides the main office.
Mr. Crane. Thank you.
Next question for you, Ms. Devlin. You were saying that the
Department of Labor does not support 3738. Is that correct?
Bill 3738.
Ms. Devlin. Yes, sir.
Mr. Crane. I believe you said the systems currently under
Department of Labor cannot be duplicated elsewhere. Can you
expand on that a little bit more?
Ms. Devlin. Yes, sir.
One of the examples I would give is the Office of the
Solicitor, which has attorneys that specialize in employment
protection law. That does not exist in the VA. The VA does have
attorneys, they have their own system there, but it is not that
area of expertise. That is one area that we would be lacking if
we were moved to the VA. We also have other expertise related
to employment protections with other agencies in DOL.
The other piece that is important is we are part of the
American workforce system. There are other services in that
system that support the wraparound services that a veteran
might need, you know, housing, food assistance, transportation,
clothing, and things like that that the VA cannot offer.
Also, again, as I mentioned before, that veterans who are
not eligible for VA services are still eligible for our
services in the American Job Center.
Mr. Crane. Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Crane.
The chair now recognizes Mrs. Ramirez from the great State
of Illinois.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, chairman, from the great State of
Wisconsin.
Mr. Van Orden. You get 6 minutes.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you. I am learning, I am learning.
I want to thank the witnesses for being here today as well,
from the many states that you come from.
When I went back home during this August recess, I hosted
Veterans Roundtables in my district. One of the prevailing
concerns that was raised to me was the issue of housing and
homelessness for the veterans in Illinois Third congressional
District. This has been a long standing issue that traces far.
When I was the executive director of a homeless shelter, I had
the honor to serve many veterans who were experiencing
homelessness. Having access to secure and stable housing, we
know, right, we all agree, is critical for veterans and their
families and ensuring they have the resources necessary to have
a home is essential. Now, districts like mine, buying a home is
becoming harder and harder. A home that would cost $300,000 now
may cost $700,000, rents that used to be maybe $800 are now
$1,800 for a one bedroom or a studio. Clearly, housing
continues to be a big challenge for our veterans and their
families.
I am thinking about access to home ownership. Mr. Garcia,
in regards to the proposal from my colleague, Ranking Member
Levin, to retroactively waive home loan fees for veterans with
service-connected disabilities, the testimony calls for a
better process for service members to use the home loan program
prior to discharge. Transitioning service members are given
information about the loan program, my understanding, during
transition. However, prior to that, what are the resources that
are currently available for service members to know about the
home loan programs?
Mr. Garcia. Ma'am, can I ask Mr. Pamperin to take that one?
Ms. Ramirez. Sure.
Mr. Pamperin. Ma'am, the loan guarantee program is briefed
out through TAP. As far as communications before that, a
service member does have the ability to use the loan guarantee
program. Specific communications related to that prior to, I
would have to take back and talk with my colleagues in the loan
guarantee program and provide you a better answer.
Ms. Ramirez. Yes, I would appreciate that. I think it is
really important that we have different avenues to ensure that
our veterans have adequate information about what resources are
available to them, and certainly this one being one of those.
I want to shift a little. I have talked about housing, but
the other priority for me here, as a member of this committee,
has been to advocate for the importance of education and
employment opportunities for veterans. Veterans who served our
country deserve every single resource that is available to
them. We cannot fulfill this promise to our veterans by
compromising programs that have the potential to help veterans
thrive while transitioning into civilian life.
Ms. Devlin, this question is for you. You note in your
testimony that the proposal to transfer the DOL VETS to VA
would remove subject matter experts from DOL involved with
administering programs outside of VA's scope. Could you
elaborate which program specifically you are referring to?
Ms. Devlin. Yes, ma'am. Thank you for the question.
Really, all the programs. However, what I think is
important to note is for the protections, the employer
protections for National Guard and Reserve members, when they
have an issue and they have a case that we are investigating
and researching, we have investigators who specialize in that.
I think this bill would move those investigators over to VA,
but what the bill does not move is the Solicitor's Office,
which is where we have our attorneys that provide that extra
expertise so that when we have a complicated case, we have
attorneys that can help us decipher and make sure we do
everything in our power to protect that Guard or Reservist
employment rights and get their rights restored. That is one
example.
The American Job Center and the Jobs for Veterans' State
Grant is another example of an organization that we operate
that is integrated into an American Job Center that serves all
veterans and all American citizens. Pulling it out of
Department of Labor and moving it to VA would certainly
restrict the access to those veterans, because now they would
be going to the American Job Center without that advocacy of
somebody from DOL VETS being able to connect them and making
sure that they get priority of services in that system.
Ms. Ramirez. Got it. Thank you.
I have 14 seconds left, so I will ask a question, and it is
yes or no so that I do not get cutoff by the chair.
Will this transfer cause a disruption in veteran services?
Yes or no?
Ms. Devlin. Yes, ma'am, it would.
Ms. Ramirez. Got it. Thank you.
Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Wow. Right on time.
In accordance with committee rules, I ask unanimous consent
that Representative James from Michigan be permitted to
participate in today's subcommittee hearing.
Without objection.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Mrvan from the state of
Indiana.
Mr. Mrvan. Ms. Devlin, in 2015 a similar bill was
introduced to move vets from the DOL to VA due to the concerns
about VETS performance and outcomes for veterans. Has the
performance of VETS programs improved in recent years? What are
you doing to measure the customer or veteran satisfaction?
Ms. Devlin. Thank you for the question.
Yes, we are actually doing a lot to measure satisfaction.
In fact, what I will highlight is for the Transition Assistance
Program and the employment pieces of that that we administer,
we have the highest satisfaction rate. We do that because we
listen to the customer experience. We not only have surveys
that ask specific questions of our transitioning service
members about their experience in the class, we ask them for
open text comments. We go through all of those open text
comments, and we look for patterns and we look for things that
we can change. Every time we do that, we learn something more
about how to make the program better. I will tell you our
latest survey results, 95 percent of service members that went
through our part of TAP said it enhanced their confidence in
their transition.
We also had the Employment Navigator program, which is new
as of 2021. Of the service members that work with a Navigator,
one on one, 98 percent said that the Navigator either met or
exceeded their expectations. That is a pilot program which we
are making a permanent program. It is at several military
installations.
We have done everything in our power to make sure we listen
to the service member experience. We recently kicked off a
Customer experience initiative in our Jobs for Veterans State
Grant to make sure we understand, because the employment
landscape has changed, how people look for jobs has changed. We
want to make sure we are meeting that service member or veteran
where they are at.
We have also--and this is just very fresh--started a
customer experience initiative in our Homeless Veterans'
Reintegration Program. Customer experience is very important to
DOL VETS.
Mr. Mrvan. In your written testimony you alluded to the
multiple touch points that you have in the American workforce
system and in the Department of Labor to support veterans. Can
this network be replicated if you are no longer within the DOL?
Ms. Devlin. No, sir. It cannot be replicated in the
Department of Veterans Affairs. That infrastructure does not
exist there.
Mr. Mrvan. Okay, thank you.
With that, I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Mrvan.
In accordance with committee rules, I ask unanimous consent
that Representative Budzinski from Illinois and Representative
Moylan from Guam be permitted to participate in today's
subcommittee hearing.
Without objection so ordered.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Edwards from North Carolina
for 5 minutes.
Mr. Edwards. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and ranking member
and committee. I appreciate you allowing me the opportunity to
wave onto this committee. It certainly is an honor, even though
it will only be for just a few short minutes, to share my
support for H.R. 2830, the Veterans Improvement Commercial
Driver's License Act of 2023, which is a bill that I am leading
to increase veteran access to timely, quality commercial
driver's license training, to increase the truck driver
workforce pool, and to help reduce the strain on our Nation's
supply chain that is currently worsened by the severe truck
driver shortage.
Across the United States, the trucking industry is facing
more than a 78,000 driver shortage, which some estimate could
reach 160,000 by 2030. The shortage is complicated in part by
burdensome red tape restricting veteran access to commercial
driver's license training using their GI Bill benefits.
Trucking shortages have a ripple effect, I know that you
realize, through our Nation's supply chains, worsening
bottlenecks and delaying delivery times. My bill seeks to
reduce the strain on our Nation's supply chain and bolster
workforce development among veterans by eliminating the red
tape currently inhibiting veteran access to CDL training
programs and increasing the pool of eligible truck drivers.
Currently, roughly 8,400 commercial driving programs are
approved for use by eligible veterans under the GI Bill. A
statutory 2 year rule under the GI Bill prevents these training
facilities from accepting GI benefits at secondary locations
for 2 years. This burdensome red tape has excluded many
veterans from attending closer secondary branch training
facilities that offer the exact same curriculum as a pre-
approved facility. It has been forcing veterans to travel
further or wait 2 years to pursue their CDL.
My bill would exempt new branches of pre-approved training
facilities from the statutory 2 year wait to accept veterans
benefits and protects the integrity of the GI Bill by requiring
that all secondary locations submit an annual report verifying
their curriculum is identical to the primary location.
This bill is a common sense reform with wide organizational
support that will reduce unnecessary roadblocks to veteran
training and workforce opportunities. I look forward to working
with the House Veterans Affairs Committee to move this forward.
If I may, I have one question for Mr. Garcia. I remain
grateful for the Department of Veterans Affairs' support of
this bill. That said, concerns have been raised that the bill's
language does not clearly require the secondary facility to be
within the same state as the primary facility. My intent was to
ensure that this exemption only applies to facilities within
the same state. Do you know if the Department has any concerns
with their interpretation of this specific language?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, so first of all, if it is good for the
veterans, good for the economy, and we still have that state
approving, agency authority and oversight are the main concerns
that we have. As you say, if that branch with the same
curriculum is within the same state, we do not see any issues
there.
Mr. Edwards. Would the Department prefer that it only apply
within state lines versus nationwide?
Mr. Ruhlman. I would not say that we have a preference
either way. We would gladly carry out that law as passed. We
think there are probably less concerns if it is in State
because the same state approving agency would be approving both
locations and therefore would already be familiar with the
business practices and the financial stability of the main
campus, which would probably be advantageous.
Mr. Edwards. Thank you. Thank you all for being here.
Mr. Chair, ranking member, again, thanks for allowing me
the time to be here.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Edwards.
The chair now recognizes Mr. James from the State of
Michigan.
Mr. James. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me this
opportunity to speak on behalf of my district and my Nation.
We are all here because we believe very, very strongly that
we have a job to serve those who have served us.
I am here to speak and seek a little bit of guidance for my
H.R. 3816, the Veterans Entry to Apprenticeship Act. As a
combat veteran and a former business leader, I recognize two
gaps that we have in this Nation. There is a skills gap with
people who are able to address the jobs of now and in the
future. We need to do more with apprenticeship to allow the
Veterans Affairs to recognize pre-apprenticeship programs and
treat them as apprenticeship programs to lower the rungs, to
increase access for veterans. There is also not just the
professional side, but the purpose side. We are facing a
hopelessness crisis in this Nation, and veterans are bearing
the brunt of this and enabling additional resources for
veterans to pursue the American dream without dismissing the
reality of the cost to the American taxpayers are a part of the
balance that we need to achieve.
I want to thank everyone, particularly the chairman, for
allowing me to seek your guidance and advice on how best to do
this on the veterans' entry to apprenticeship.
I would like to echo the sentiments of my colleague, Ms.
Ramirez, mentioning the criticality of housing. One of the
components of this bill would allow veterans who are entering
this pre-apprenticeship program to be able to allocate some of
these resources to critical needs, such as housing and
transportation. The Congressional Budget Office (CBO) has
already scored this at $60 million--with an M--$60 million over
the next 10 years. Do you have any advice for how we can
proceed with lower or level cost and how long the housing
benefits should last, because housing is critical.
Mr. Garcia. Sir, there are roughly 18,000 currently in the
apprenticeship program, for the registered apprenticeship
program. Our concerns are that in the pre-apprenticeship
program, that is not registered. That are our concerns that we
have that it kind of levels the playing field for veterans that
would use and burn up their benefits. For a pre-apprenticeship
program the concern is perhaps they do not have the same
measurable outcomes from Department of Labor. It is a concern
that we have to even accept this as an entitlement.
Mr. James. Understanding that there is a need and
understanding that additional draws on resources might be a
concern, what are some things that we can do to address this?
One of the things that we looked at is state approving agencies
making sure that the programs that are approved meet the
standards that are required for folks to be able to matriculate
into jobs that pay well and actually helping veterans and not
another government grift. Are there ways that we can make sure
that we have this accountability down to the lowest level, but
also making sure that we are able to help veterans where they
need it the most, most notably with housing in this case?
Mr. Garcia. Sir, we would welcome to work with the
committee and you on this initiative, but you are right on
target, we would definitely want the state approving agencies
to have that same authority and oversight to make sure that we
have quality programs. That would address the major concern
that we would have.
Mr. James. This is a bipartisan bill, this is not a
messaging bill. This is critical to the health of our Nation.
Echoing your sentiments, Mr. Garcia, if it is good for the
veteran, if it is good for the economy, then we are generally
heading in the right direction.
We also need to make sure that we get it through the House,
we get it through the Senate, and something that can be passed.
The fact that it is bipartisan helps. Working very closely with
you and your colleagues and me and mine, we welcome the
opportunity.
One last thing I would like to mention is, as we move
forward, if there is anything that we see that can improve this
bill, I just want to State for the record, Mr. Chairman, that I
am open and willing to make whatever tweaks are necessary to
help our veterans.
With that, I want to thank you each for your time and your
service.
I yield the rest of my time, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. James.
The chair now recognizes Ms. Mace from South Carolina for 5
minutes.
Ms. Mace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Ruhlman, the
Government Accountability Office report from September 2022
showed the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship had an
alarmingly low participation rate since its inception, raising
concerns about barriers, preventing beneficiaries from
accessing the benefit. To your knowledge, has the VA done an
extensive analysis of those barriers preventing veterans from
using the benefit?
Mr. Ruhlman. VA is looking----
Ms. Mace. Is that a yes or a no? Have you guys done
anything yet?
Mr. Ruhlman. It is in progress.
Ms. Mace. Okay. Thank you.
Would it be beneficial to have more information about the
barriers, in your opinion?
Mr. Ruhlman. More information is always better.
Ms. Mace. How long will it take? How long have you been
working on trying to get more information and how long will it
take to gather?
Mr. Ruhlman. I cannot answer that right now, but I can
get----
Ms. Mace. Why cannot you answer it?
Mr. Ruhlman. I do not personally run the Edith Nourse
Rogers STEM Scholarship.
Ms. Mace. Okay.
Mr. Ruhlman. We can get that answer. We are aware of the
study and the barriers, and we are looking at them.
Ms. Mace. Okay, super. Thank you.
The Government Accountability Office (GAO) report also
highlighted the analysis the VA did of those who were denied
the benefit was very limited. Is not it true that this analysis
did not include denial reasons for both race or gender?
Mr. Ruhlman. Could you rephrase the question?
Ms. Mace. Is not it true this analysis did not include
denial reasons for either race or gender?
Mr. Ruhlman. We would not have denied them because of race
or gender. I am not certain whether the demographics were
associated with that.
Ms. Mace. Okay.
My office has worked closely with Wounded Warrior Project
to come up with some solutions based off data they have found
in their own Wounded Warriors Women Warriors Report. Women
veterans are the fastest growing population of veterans, but
they focus also on unique challenges when transitioning. The
unemployment rate among Wounded Warrior Women Warriors is
higher than most male warriors at 10 percent, compared to 6.3
percent of their male counterparts. Census data suggests that
only 27 percent of women are employed in STEM fields in the
U.S. workforce, but comprise almost half of the overall
workforce today.
I look forward to working with you and the VA and my
colleagues here today on this committee on this important
legislation, to ensure that we are addressing the unique needs
of each and every veteran.
Thank you and I yield back. Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Mace.
In accordance with the committee rules, I ask unanimous
consent that Representative Kiggans from Virginia be permitted
to participate in today's subcommittee hearing.
Without objection.
The chair now recognizes Ms. Budzinski from the great state
of Illinois.
Ms. Budzinski. Thank you, Chairman Van Orden and Ranking
Member Levin for giving me the opportunity to speak on my bill
today. I very much appreciate it.
H.R. 5780, the Veterans in STEM Expansion Act. Veterans put
their lives on the lines to serve our country, yet they are
still facing significant barriers to employment and educational
opportunities upon returning. According to the Journal of
Veteran Studies, over 200,000 service members transition to
civilian life each year and among their top struggles is
finding a job and getting connected to educational
opportunities. I believe everyone in the room can agree with me
when I say that our veterans deserve better.
Congress took positive steps when it passed the Forever GI
Bill in 2017, which brought much needed changes to veterans
educational benefits. Part of this major legislation included
enacting the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM scholarship. Since
enactment, thousands of veterans have used the scholarship to
pursue STEM degrees after exhausting their post 9/11 GI Bill
benefits.
Though this has been great progress, student veterans have
voiced their frustrations with some of the very limiting
requirements. Additionally, a 2022 GAO report highlighted some
of the barriers student veterans have faced when applying for
the scholarship. Barriers have included meeting the credit hour
requirements, exhausting GI Bill benefits before being able to
apply, and the inability for student veterans to use
scholarship toward graduate school classes. The Veterans in
STEM Expansion Act would modify all three of those levers by
reducing the minimum number of credit hours required to 45
hours. It would also allow student veterans to apply for
scholarship even if they still have GI benefits left. The
scholarship would only kick in after recipients have exhausted
GI Bill benefits. Last, my bill would allow student veterans to
use the scholarship toward graduate school classes.
The changes proposed in this bill are straightforward ways
to improve access to this important scholarship for our student
veterans and ease the transition for those pursuing a higher
education.
I am committed to working with my colleagues, the VA and
Veterans Service Organizations (VSOs) on my bill to ensure we
are all doing all that we can to expand STEM education for all
veterans. I do appreciate Congresswoman Cherfilus-McCormick and
Congressman McGarvey for already agreeing to co-sponsor this
bill.
Thank you for the time. I appreciate it, chairman.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Budzinski.
The chair now recognizes my friend from Guam, Mr. Moylan,
and we wish you a hafa adai, sir
Mr. Moylan. Hafa adai, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Chairman
Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the
subcommittee for allowing me to wave on to discuss this
important bill that helps our veterans in Guam.
I appreciate the current panel and their discussion about
the bill and their support, but I would also like to extend my
gratitude to our witnesses in the next panel, respectively, the
Organizations of Disabled American Veterans (DAV), Student
Veterans of America (SVA), and the Veterans of Foreign War
VFW), for supporting our mission and endorsing our bill.
I am proud to represent a district that is filled with
patriots who have served our country with dignity, honor, and
respect. We must give them our sincerest gratitude and respect
for their service. Being a veteran in Guam is not easy. From
long waiting times at both VA clinics and hospitals in Guam to
lack of complex veteran healthcare services, Guam's veterans
have been left in the dark for way too long, especially our
disabled veterans. Currently, there is a program called the
Adaptive Vehicle Grant Program that provides $25,600 to
eligible veterans so that they can purchase an adaptive
vehicle. My bill, the Deliver for Veterans Act, will improve
this program by allowing the VA to put funds from each
veteran's grant toward shipping costs. To ship a vehicle to
Guam it costs close to $4,000. Under the current program,
veterans are unable to use their grant to pay for shipping
costs. This is a major cost that negatively affects our
veterans in remote areas, like Mr. Crane's district and my
district of Guam. With this high transportation costs, only
those who can afford to ship the vehicle will do so.
This small fix in the program will allow more veterans to
take advantage of this program that helps them in everyday
life.
Again, I want to thank the subcommittee for allowing me to
wave in on today's hearings, and I ask for their support in
delivering for our disabled veterans.
Mr. Chair, I would like to waive any additional time I have
if I can have additional remarks regarding their support for
this measure please.
Mr. Pamperin. Good afternoon, sir, and I appreciate the
question.
VA does support this legislation. It is the right thing to
do. Currently, we do have the ability to cover adaptive
automobiles, just not the shipping. As you were discussing,
that is an additional financial burden. We know that in doing
research that the average shipping cost is about $1,650.
Obviously, Guam and some more remote places are going to be
higher, but even just with the average shipping cost, that
actually would stay below the average grant rate. Right now,
the average grant is a little over $23,000. Just adding in that
average shipping cost would still be below the max grant. It is
the right thing to do and that is why we support the
legislation, sir.
Mr. Moylan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Moylan.
The chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Virginia, Ms.
Kiggans.
Ms. Kiggans. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Thank you for
letting me sit on your meeting today to talk about my bill,
H.R. 5956, the GI Improvement Act.
I just wanted to briefly describe it. In exchange for
serving our country veterans get a chance to pursue almost any
post-secondary education they want, whether it be for college,
graduate school, or training. I was able to use my GI Bill to
go back to nursing school. We are currently using my husband's
GI Bill to provide education for one of our children. It is a
great benefit that we need to be very protective of and make
sure our veterans are able to utilize use it to the best
possible extent that they can.
The GI Bill has been life changing for millions of our
Nation's former service members. In 2022, more than 800,000
veterans had been using their GI Bill benefits. Unfortunately,
understanding the benefits of the bill can be incredibly
complicated and overwhelming. The GI Bill comparison tool is
something that we have now. It is a vital part of navigating
these benefits. It is used widely by veterans. It is a web
based portal that is supposed to provide just a simple, easy
way to access the different information to compare universities
for our veterans. Every school who accepts the benefits offers
this GI Bill comparison tool to their prospective students, but
it has not been updated for quite some time.
Additionally, many different Federal agencies collect data
that I think would be useful for veterans to know, including
graduation rates, student loan default rates, and others. My
bill seeks to increase transparency and centralize this useful
information for veterans within this already existing tool and
would require VA to work with other agencies and key department
stakeholders to continually update the tool as more information
becomes available. Some of the new information that would be
included on this portal would be retention rates, transfer
rates, graduation rates, credentials, certifications, available
average duration of degrees, student loan default rates,
student loan repayment rates, and more. Provide a lot more
information when veterans are comparing just different schools
that they may use their GI Bill benefit at.
By providing this additional information, my Bill allows
those seeking to use their GI Bill benefits to obtain education
to make the most informed choice possible. I introduced this
bill to improve transparency and provide more resources for
those looking to use GI Bill benefits so that veterans can be
well informed when deciding how to use them. It will help our
veterans to be well informed, and it will increase educational
opportunities for our Nation's heroes.
Thank you so much, and I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Kiggans.
Thank you. The witnesses are now excused. I hope you all
stay around for the second panel.
Mr. Van Orden. Yes, well, on our second panel we will hear
from the following witnesses, Ms. Keenan, the deputy director
at National Legislative Service for the Veterans of Foreign
Wars, Mr. Barefield, assistant national legislative director at
Disabled American Veterans, Ms. Barlet, vice President of
Government Affairs at Student Veterans of America, Mr. Wescott,
legislative director at the National Association of State
Approving Agencies, and Mr. Hazard, Veterans in Piping program
manager for the United States Association of Journeymen and
Apprentices of Plumbing and Pipe Fitting Industry of the United
States and Canada.
I would like to welcome our witnesses to the second panel.
Will you please stand and raise your right hand?
[Witnesses sworn]
Mr. Van Orden. Let the record reflect that all witnesses
have answered in the affirmative.
Ms. Keenan, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony.
STATEMENT OF KRISTINA KEENAN
Ms. Keenan. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and
members of the subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of
the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States and its
auxiliary, thank you for the opportunity to provide our remarks
on legislation pending before the subcommittee.
The VFW's views on all the bills can be found in my written
testimony. I will take the opportunity to highlight a few.
The VFW supports the Expanding Access for Online Veteran
Student Act to increase the monthly housing stipend to the
national average for veterans who take summer courses online.
Currently, the monthly housing allowance for online courses is
half the national average, which is simply not enough for many
student veterans. If they take courses during the summer, even
online, they should not experience a significant decrease in
their housing benefit that could cause them financial hardship.
While this is a step in the right direction, the VFW would like
for student veterans to receive at least the full national
average rate for housing, even if they are not enrolled in
degree programs conducted online for some or all semesters.
Online education has adapted and grown since the COVID-19
pandemic, much like working from home, has changed the work
model. Student veterans, who are often non traditional
students, continue to require housing assistance to
successfully pursue higher education, even when enrolled in
online programs.
The VFW supports the Veterans Education Transparency and
Training Act. This would modify the requirement for schools to
provide a personalized shopping sheet with specific and
individual information about costs and financial assistance.
The new language would give schools more flexibility by
lessening the barrier to receiving VA education funding. The
legislation would also create a single VA website for school
officials to find current training. Schools have told us this
would be helpful because when they receive staff turnover,
updates sent only by email get lost over time. We suggest
adding to Section 1A that all policy and guidance updates be
included on this VA website, as these are equally important as
training. We also recommend that VA be required to update the
information in a timely manner, because having a website with
old information is equally ineffective.
The VFW supports the draft bill to waive the VA home loan
fee for service members with a service-connected disability who
apply for the loan before receiving their disability rating
from VA. Current housing market uncertainty has created an
environment for service members where they may not be able to
wait until VA has completed processing their disability claim
before finalizing the purchase of a home when the right
opportunity arises. This proposal would ensure that service
members who have started their VA claim and conducted a pre-
discharge exam could be reimbursed for the home loan fee if
they receive a disability rating after purchasing their home.
We suggest one key change, to replace the pre-discharge date
with the effective Date. The intent to file establishes the
claim's effective date, and it never changes, unlike exams,
which can be scheduled and rescheduled. Using the effective
date would avoid any ambiguity and would ensure that service
members retain the earliest date for eligibility.
The VFW would also like to ensure that if this proposal
becomes law, that veterans have the flexibility to choose what
is in their best financial interest. We would hope the options
to pay down the principal of the mortgage or to receive
reimbursement from VA would both be available as some service
members pay these fees out of pocket.
Last, the VFW supports the draft bill to modify the
requirements of the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM scholarship. We
support amending the specific credit hours required for
eligibility in addition to extending this benefit to graduate
degrees. Barriers for students to utilize this scholarship
should be lessened, as we want veterans to pursue and succeed
in high demand fields like STEM.
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, thank you for the
opportunity to provide my remarks. I look forward to answering
any questions you or the committee members may have.
Thank you.
[The Prepared Statement Of Kristina Keenan Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Keenan. The written statement
of Ms. Keenan will be entered into the hearing record. Mr.
Barefield, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver your
testimony.
STATEMENT OF MARQUIS BAREFIELD
Mr. Barefield. Thank you. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking
Member Levin, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for
inviting DAV to testify at today's hearing of the Subcommittee
on Economic Opportunity to consider the 13 pieces of
legislation up for discussion this afternoon. My written
statement has been submitted for the record, and I will now
highlight a few bills that are important to DAV and our
members.
In my early days after being medically retired from the
United States Army, I can speak personally about the
difficulties that I experienced when I left the military more
than 25 years ago, when TAP was in its infancy stages and
mental health services were not part of the program. Dealing
with the pain of my service-connected disabilities and the
uncertainty of what my life was going to be like after the
military, I suffered from depression and anxiety. I could have
benefited from having access to some type of mental health
services. For example, H.R. 3722 and the amendment in the
nature of a substitute to it would provide valuable mental
health services to transitioning service members, veterans and
their families. It is important that transitioning service
members and veterans fully understand the importance of having
mental health services available to them. I know and understand
what some of the current transitioning service members and
veterans are going through that have lost the sense of
community that the military hails for them. The men, women and
families who are going through this transition can benefit from
knowing that valuable mental health services are available to
them during and after the TAPs classes.
DAV supports H.R. 5785, the STEM scholarship program. By
broadening the eligibility and decreasing the number of
semester or quarter hours required to become eligible for this
scholarship, this will increase the number of students who wish
to pursue careers in this very important area. Employees that
have STEM careers make on average $93,000 per year, which is
substantially higher than the national average.
DAV supports H.R. 2830 as it would help ease the pathway
for veterans to acquire a commercial driver's license, helping
to address the trucking shortage, employ veterans, and
strengthen our supply chains. This legislation would ensure CDL
schools that offer courses at new branches do not have to wait
2 years if the primary institution has been approved by the VA
and state approving agencies to receive GI Bill benefits. Many
former military personnel have experienced driving large
vehicles during their military careers. According to the
American Trucking Association, there is currently a shortage of
80,000 truck drivers. There is a high demand for truck drivers
across the country, with some positions paying nearly $100,000
per year. It is estimated that 8,400 commercial driving
programs have been approved for use by eligible veterans under
the GI Bill. This legislation would create unique opportunities
for service disabled veterans to obtain a CDL and overcome
their employment barriers.
Finally, Mr. Chairman, H.R. 3738 would establish a fourth
administration within VA dedicated to creating economic
opportunities for veterans, their dependents, and survivors.
This would increase the visibility and accountability of all
veteran education and employment related programs, anticipating
veterans long-term needs not only for health care and
disability compensation, but also for education and employment
opportunities. A fresh new approach is required.
Given all the responsibilities of VBA and their focusing on
claims and appeals processing, other programs have taken a
backseat. For example, the Veterans Readiness and Employment
Program started working on an electronic case management system
for vocational rehabilitation counselors. However, after 9
years, 3 failed attempts for a digital platform, and over $20
million spent, VR and E still does not have a digital case
management system. DAV believes that the failures of the VR and
E case management system is indicative of a lack of focus,
direction, as well as a constant change of administrations.
This is one example of many why we believe VA needs a fourth
administration. H.R. 3738 would be a huge step in the right
direction to solving this problem.
This concludes my testimony, and I am happy to answer any
questions you or members of the subcommittee may have.
[The Prepared Statement Of Marquis Barefield Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Barefield. The written
statement of Mr. Barefield will be entered into the hearing
record. Let us not do that again, please. Thank you.
Ms. Barlet, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to deliver
your testimony. Seriously? I just said let us not do that
again. Is it yours? Yes. There you go. Adapt. Overcome.
STATEMENT OF TAMMY BARLET
Ms. Barlet. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and
members of the subcommittee, thank you for inviting Student
Veterans of America to testify before you today and always, we
appreciate the opportunity to share our views on the bills
which will directly impact student veterans, military connected
students, their families, and survivors.
We encourage the subcommittee to review our written
testimony for the detailed discussion on the education related
legislation for today's hearing.
My verbal remarks will focus on two bills.
I will begin by addressing the Expanded Access for Online
Veteran Students Act. The prevalence of online classes in
higher education has skyrocketed in the last year, in the
recent years. This trend is prior to the pandemic, but the
forced shift online learning during COVID led many institutions
to invest in methods to offer their classes online. Many
institutions, including a growing number of flagship public and
nonprofit universities, continue to increase their online
courses offering, which appeals to the broader range of
students, including post traditional students, while juggling
other responsibilities like family and jobs. Institutions are
also exercising a new discretion in how they offer their
courses, sometimes choosing only to offer certain courses
during particular terms. That us the important piece for GI
Bill students and their MHA.
We have reached an era in higher education where not only
otherwise in person GI Bill students are safe from the negative
financial consequences of the outdated and misinformed policy
of reducing MHA for online learners. I am going to tell you a
story about one of the SVA's incredible chapter leaders, Josh
Jones. Josh is an SVA Veteran of the Year, and former chapter
leader of Loyola University in Chicago. Some of you may be
familiar with Josh. He was recognized during the Joint VSO and
Military Service Organization (MSO) hearing before the House
and Senate Committees on Veterans Affairs this past March, and
it was shortly time before then Josh flagged to SVA this issue
that ultimately led to this bill. Josh and some of his peers
soon found out that their institution was only offering the
classes they needed online over the summer and quickly found
themselves enrolled fully online and only eligible for the
reduced MHA rate for online learners. This slashed their
housing allowance by well over $1,600 a month, leaving them
grappling with how to make that difference over the span of the
3 month term. Josh recognized how fundamentally unfair this was
and, with the support of SVA, spearheaded an effort to bring a
legislative fix to Congress so other military affiliated
students would not have to experience the same hardship. In
March of this year, members of the subcommittee heard from Josh
and SVA about this very issue.
We are proud to appear before you today and announce our
strong support for this legislation. While SVA would have
preferred the bill fully harmonize MHA rates for online
learners, there is no denying that represents a substantial
improvement over the current law that will roughly put an extra
$1,000 in the pockets of online GI Bill learners over the
summer. This bill represents a pivotal first step toward the
ultimate goal of securing full MHA for online GI Bill students.
SVA thanks subcommittee staff for their work on this
legislation, and we applaud Representatives Ciscomani, Van
Orden, Stansbury, and Stanton for their bipartisan leadership
on this issue.
Last, I will turn to the Student Veterans Work Study
Modernization Act. VA Work Study is an invaluable program
providing participants with critical financial support during
their studies, but the program limits eligibility to those who
are enrolled at least 3/4 time. According to SVA's most recent
survey, roughly 50 percent of our respondents have children and
approximately 20 percent identify as single parents. For most
of these folks, enrolling at a rate that is less than 3/4 time
might be the best fit for them and their families, but this
cuts them off from the program. The bill before you today will
address this issue by establishing a pilot program that expands
the eligibility of those enrolled at least half time. The bill
will also require VA to collect and report important new
information about how VA's Work Study is serving student
veterans. This legislation is just one part of the larger
effort to modernize VA Work Study.
We commend this bill's sponsor, Congressman Cartwright, and
his leadership in the complementary and comprehensive VA Work
Study Improvement Act. That bill was first conceived by a
former VFW SVA fellow, John Randolph, and would make critical
requirements to the VA Work Study so that it can perfectly
serve its participants.
This concludes my verbal remarks. Thank you for your time
and attention, and I look forward to your questions.
[The Prepared Statement Of Tammy Barlet Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ms. Barlet. The written statement
of Ms. Barlet will be entered into the hearing record.
Mr. Wescott, you are now recognized for 5 minutes to
deliver your testimony.
STATEMENT OF JOSEPH WESCOTT
Mr. Wescott. Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and
members of the Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, I am
pleased to appear before you today on behalf of the 52 member
state agencies of the National Association of State Approving
Agencies (NASAA). I appreciate the opportunity to provide
comments to this committee about the legislation pertaining to
veterans education and training.
H.R. 2830, the Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver
License Act, while well meaning, causes NASAA great concern in
its present form. As drafted, this bill sweeps away the
protections provided for veterans under the 2 year rule for
private and not for profit non college degree (NCD)
institutions. That rule requires that these educational
institutions must be in existence and approved for at least 2
years by other necessary state regulatory authorities. The
institution must also have successfully offered the program for
approval for that same period. This is an important safeguard
preventing an NCD institution, such as a truck driving school,
from gaining approval without demonstrating a measure of
quality and stability in its continuous operation.
This bill as presently drafted only requires that an
institution offer the same curriculum as a previously SA
approved institution anywhere in the Nation and has met the
requirements for licensure to apply for approval. When we
approve a program for approval, particularly at a new location,
curriculum is only one factor we review. We also carefully
evaluate instructor qualifications, administrations, equipment,
policies and procedures, and the technical ability of the
location to administer the program. We do this to ensure that
only programs that demonstrate quality educational outcomes for
students are approved. To determine program quality, it is
important that we have some record of success, such as
graduation rates or job placement, to review and evaluate.
NASAA respectfully suggests that this legislation be amended so
that the institutions which apply for a waiver from the
requirements of the 2 year rule must be within the same state
as the initial campus upon which the institution bases its
application.
Also, we strongly suggest that the legislation provides
that the institutions must show a history of having
successfully taught the program at that location for a set
period of time, preferably 1 year, but certainly not less than
6 months. We oppose this bill in its present form.
The Transparency for Student Veterans Act of 2023, this
would allow student veterans to make informed choices about
which schools and programs would be the best fit for them. It
provides them the additional information to do that. We
certainly support that bill.
H.R. 3816 the Veterans Entry to Apprenticeship Act, while
we certainly agree with the purpose of this bill, NASAA
suggests that safeguards be added to protect veterans enrolled
in these programs. For instance, we believe that any pre-
apprenticeship program applying for GI Bill benefits should
meet the standards found in U.S. Department of Labor issued
Training and Employment Notice 1212. Likewise, we would like to
see these programs demonstrate a record of successfully placing
veterans into a registered apprenticeship program. Most
importantly, we feel they must be approved by a state approving
agency. We support this bill, but with suggested amendments.
H.R. 5914 addresses the need for veterans to seamlessly
access their hard earned education benefits to facilitate a
successful transition to civilian life. This legislation amends
the requirement for a shopping sheet to state that SAAs will
only disapprove programs when facilities fail to provide
certain forms to the maximum extent possible.
Also, this legislation requires a centralized communication
platform for improved communication between VA and SCOs. NASAA
believes this new language will ensure veterans have access to
quality programs by providing flexibility to institutions such
as police academies, truck driving schools, and other approved
NCD institutions, while still providing adequate safeguards for
veterans and their families. We strongly support this bill.
Mr. Chairman, today, SAAs throughout this great Nation are
diligently working to protect the quality and integrity of the
GI Bill and to ensure that our veterans and their families have
unfettered access to quality training and education programs.
I thank you again for this opportunity. I look forward to
your questions.
[The Prepared Statement Of Joseph Wescott Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Wescott. The written
statement of Mr. Wescott will be entered into the hearing
record.
Before I recognize Mr. Hazard, I want to thank you for your
persistence. I know that this has been a hassle to get you here
and I do appreciate it. We are very thankful that you are able
to make it.
Mr. Hazard. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. You know, how many times did it take now? A
couple. Our House is more in order and we appreciate you being
here.
With that, I recognize you for 5 minutes to deliver your
testimony.
STATEMENT OF MICHAEL HAZARD
Mr. Hazard. Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden and members
of the committee. My name is Mike Hazard and I am employed by
the United Association of Journeymen and Apprentices of the
Plumbing and Pipe Fitting Industry of the United States and
Canada, which we typically just refer to as UA.
As Program Manager of the UA's Veterans and Piping Training
Program, or VIP Program, I want to thank the committee for
giving me the opportunity today to share the successes we have
had at the VIP program in helping transitioning servicemen and
women prepare for a career in the plumbing and pipe fitting
industries, and to offer the UA's views on several bills
currently being considered by this committee.
First, I would like to briefly share some information about
my background and the important work that we do at VIP. I first
joined the UA as a pipe tradesman in Santa Barbara, California
in 1987. Soon after that, however, I placed my UA career on
hold and joined the United States Navy, where I proudly served
as an aviation rescue swimmer and H-46 helicopter mechanic for
11 years. I was honorably discharged from the Navy in 1999
while holding the rank of Petty Officer First Class.
Following my discharge from the Navy, I was able to pick up
where I had left off at the UA and return to work as a
journeyman pipefitter. After working in the field for several
years, I was offered and accepted a position as a training
coordinator for a regional apprenticeship program in Southern
California, where I facilitated plumbing and pipe fitting
training for over 10,000 UA members. I was promoted to
executive director of this training fund in 2008, which is the
position I held until I accepted my current position at the UA
in 2012.
In my current position, I manage the day to day operations
of the nine VIP training sites located at seven military
installations across the United States. Under the VIP program,
the UA offers departing servicemen and women from all branches
of the military the opportunity to participate in an intensive
18 week training program on base, which they receive at no cost
to either the government or the student. When the training is
successfully completed, the graduates are guaranteed a job and
are placed in one of the UA's best in class gold standard
apprenticeship programs. Since its inception, I am proud to
state that the UA VIP program has provided apprenticeship
opportunities to over 3,170 military veterans.
I know from my own personal experience how valuable it can
be when transitioning back to civilian life to feel that an
organization like the UA has your back. Reconnecting with my UA
brothers and sisters and taking advantage of the work
opportunities in this thriving industry certainly made the
transition more manageable for me. It has therefore been deeply
meaningful for me in my current position to be able to provide
a similar experience to other veterans by connecting departing
service members with both the training opportunities and
support systems provided by the UA VIP program.
With this background behind me, I will now summarize the
UA's views regarding several bills currently being considered
by this committee.
First, the UA would like to express its support for several
pending bills mentioned in the hearing invitation I have
received. These include H.R. 3601, the Student Veteran Work
Modernization Act, H.R. 5190, the Military Family Protection
from Debt Act, the draft bill proposing to modify the
requirements of the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship, and
the draft bill proposing to waive certain fees that are charged
in connection with housing loans guaranteed by the Secretary of
Veterans Affairs. These are measured, common sense reforms that
will provide tangible benefits to veterans and military
families and which we believe can receive broad bipartisan
support.
On the other hand, I would also like to take the
opportunity to express the UA's opposition to the draft bill
titled Consolidating Veterans Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act of 2023. Broadly speaking, this bill would
transfer the work performed by the Vet's Office at the
Department of Labor to the Department of Veterans Affairs.
While I am sure this bill is well-intentioned, I believe that
is misguided and would not advance the interests of
transitioning service members. The VA has a very important
mission, but job creation is not typically understood as being
a significant part of that. On the other hand, I have been
working with the DOL vets office for 15 years, and I am
consistently impressed with the workforce development experts
there. It is my experience that the DOL Vets office has played
an important role in connecting veterans with the
apprenticeship programs that are also registered with the DOL.
The Vets office has done a terrific job at facilitating
effective communication and collaboration between DOL, DoD, and
the VA. I believe that changing the structure of the DOL Vets
office in the manner proposed would result in much more harm
than good, and I would, therefore, ask the committee not to
move forward with that particular bill.
That concludes my testimony, and I would like to thank the
committee again for this opportunity, and I am ready to answer
any questions you may have.
[The Prepared Statement Of Michael Hazard Appears In The
Appendix]
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Hazard. The written statement
of Mr. Hazard will be entered into the hearing record.
We will now proceed with questioning and I recognize myself
for 5 minutes.
Ms. Keenan, can you comment on the benefits of the current
GI Bill comparison tool and whether it would be beneficial to
veterans to add information that is currently collected by the
Department of Education?
Ms. Keenan. Thank you for that question, Mr. Chairman.
The more information that we can provide to student
veterans, prospective student veterans, so they can make the
most well informed choices for them, we are in favor of. Adding
more information, I think, is only going to help people make
their decisions.
Mr. Van Orden. Very well. Thank you.
Mr. Barefield, as the principal mission of DAV is to help
rehabilitate and support disabled veterans, do you believe H.R.
522, the Delivery for Veterans Act, would be widely used and
beneficial for disabled veterans?
Mr. Barefield. Thank you for the question.
The short answer is yes. Service disabled veterans should
not have to pay for a benefit that they have earned to include
automobile adaptation, even if it requires them to have a
vehicle shipped to them. This is something that they should not
have to incur the cost for.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you very much.
Mr. Wescott, do you interpret H.R. 2830 to allow truck
driving schools to cross state lines on opening a new branch
campus?
Mr. Wescott. Yes, sir, I do.
Mr. Van Orden. Okay. Can you maybe explain for folks what
the beef is with having stuff from one state to the other? I
asked this because I have the largest contiguous section of the
Mississippi River of any Member of Congress, so I can go from
Minnesota to Iowa to Illinois within a 15 minutes drive. Maybe
you could explain some of your reservations about this, please.
Mr. Wescott. Certainly, sir.
Those reservations are based upon the fact that, for one
thing, if we are going to modify the 2 year rule, which I think
is an important protection for veterans, while at the same time
I understand the need for more truck drivers, it is very
important that we are very careful in how we do that by keeping
it within the same state you have an SA who is familiar with
not only the state requirements, but is also familiar with the
base institution that they approved. We are extending that from
the one that they have already approved. If we do not safeguard
that, then we would be in a situation where somebody could get
approval in the state of, say, Idaho, and now the 2 year rule
is effectively swept away in North Carolina. That is concerning
to me, and there is my concern.
Mr. Van Orden. We are just having a discussion about
contiguous states. It is an issue with us. We are going to work
with you on this. I understand that some tweaks--we can accept
that. I would like real explicit stuff. I know there is great
stuff in your written testimony, but truck driving is a
fantastic job, and if we can get our guys and gals behind the
wheel and actively employed it to be fantastic.
Mr. Hazard, as a program manager of the UA VIP program who
previously worked as the training coordinator for the Regional
Apprenticeship Program, do you think that H.R. 3816, the
Veterans Entry into Apprenticeship Act, would be helpful for
veterans to utilize their GI benefits and gain entry level
experience in the field? Do you have any concerns about this
program?
Mr. Hazard. The pre-apprenticeship?
Mr. Van Orden. Yes
Mr. Hazard. My concern with that, chairman, is wages. What
kind of jobs are the--apprenticeship is designed with stepped
wage increases as you work through the program and you complete
the requirements. Pre-apprenticeship implies that you are
automatically going to be an apprentice, and there would just
have to be some benchmarks in there to ensure that somebody's
ready to be an apprentice. I really think----
Mr. Van Orden. I also share some concerns about this, not
from that perspective, but from the perspective if you go from
pre-apprenticeship program to pre-apprenticeship program to
pre-apprenticeship program, you may be burning your GI bills.
By the time you get to where you really want to be, you may not
have enough benefits left to complete that degree. Let us talk
about this in future.
Mr. Hazard. Okay.
Mr. Van Orden. But because I understand Mr. James' intent
and I think it is very valid. We have just got to figure out
how to do it properly to make sure that the veterans are well
served.
With that I yield back and I recognize Mr. Levin, Ranking
Member Levin, for 5 minutes.
Mr. Levin. I thank the chairman. Thank you all so much for
being here. Thank you for your testimony.
Ms. Keenan, I will start with you. I want to thank the VFW
for their support of the VALOR Act. VA noted in its testimony
on the bill that some veterans postpone using the home loan
benefit until after they receive their rating so they can avoid
paying the funding fee. What impact does that have on their
financial well being and housing stability, especially during
the period of transition?
Ms. Keenan. Thank you, Mr. Ranking Member, for that
question.
We know that the first 12 months after somebody separates
from the military is the most critical and where they have the
highest risk for suicide. Housing instability is a big concern
for us. A transitioning service member who's filed a VA
disability claim should not have to wait for VA to make a
decision, a life decision, to purchase a home, which creates
stability for them and their family and their children. We want
them to have this be a stress free process and to be reassured
if they do receive a rating later from VA that they can get
that fee back.
Mr. Levin. Well, I appreciate that.
A related issue, some transitioning service members close
on a home before receiving their rating, often because they
erroneously think they are going to be refunded later. In fact,
this happened to a constituent of ours who brought this to our
attention and prompted our team to write this bill. The
question is, do you believe the current inability of
individuals in this situation to receive a refund once they get
a rating is consistent with the spirit of the fee waiver?
Ms. Keenan. I do not think that that was the intention of
the fee waiver. I think particularly for this group of
transitioning service members to veterans, that there should be
this allowance for them because the process may be lengthy for
VA. We know there is a bit of a backlog at the moment, so we
want to make sure that there is no frustration for them in this
process.
Mr. Levin. Thank you for that.
I also appreciate VFW's suggestion to use the effective
date rather than the date of examination. My understanding is
that the effective date cannot be earlier than the day after
separation. Individuals who close on their homes while on
active duty would not be considered eligible for a refund. Can
you speak to that?
Ms. Keenan. I would have to look into that. If they could
use their intent to file date, which would be the earliest
possible date, if that would be affected by their date of
discharge, we would have to look into that and ask our team.
Mr. Levin. Happy to follow up on that one and grateful for
your support again. It is an example of a constituent having an
issue that is leading to legislation. Hopefully, if there is
any veteran listening to this, contact your Member of Congress,
particularly if they are on this committee, and you never know,
we might be able to do something about it legislatively.
I will turn to you, Mr. Hazard, because I know that you had
to reschedule and you came from Idaho, et cetera, and also
because I represent Camp Pendleton and I had the chance to go
and visit the UA's VIP program there. Shout out to my friend
Sean-Keoni Ellis from the UA.
Wanted to ask you what we can do to improve access to
employees and their ability to access SkillBridge. I know you
have got a tremendous amount of experience with SkillBridge, I
know that it is both DOL and DoD. I would love if you could
share with the time that we have left thoughts that you have on
SkillBridge?
Mr. Hazard. Absolutely.
SkillBridge is a life changer, really. It is changed the
way we transition out of the military for the better. It is
guarantees, it is a smooth transition from the military into
the workforce with guaranteed employment. That is the way the
UA does it. I think we need to look at the utilization of
SkillBridge by transitioning service members before we worry
about getting more employers involved. Right now some of our
military partners are reporting to us that it is 5 to 10
percent utilization of transitioning service members. I know
from--personally, my son was attached to an EOD unit and his
commander's policy was, nobody is going to SkillBridge. We need
to get some guidance in there and some teeth in SkillBridge so
people that want to participate can.
Talking about the employers and the SkillBridge providers,
we need to do a better job at screening those folks, too. What
it is supposed to be is employment, and it is supposed to be at
little or no cost to the service member, and it is supposed to
have a high probability of employment, and very few of those
providers are doing that.
Mr. Levin. Thank you.
I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Ranking Member Levin.
In accordance with committee rules, I ask unanimous consent
that Representative Dunn from Iowa be permitted to participate
in today's subcommittee hearing.
Without objection.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Ciscomani from the great State
of Arizona.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Always good to see
you, sir. Thanks to all the witnesses for being here today to
discuss and provide feedback on a number of bills. I have
enjoyed your testimonies. I have had the pleasure of touring
the University of Arizona's Veterans Education and Transition
Services, or VETS, as it is called, the center in September and
I was able to hear firsthand from veterans and issues they face
when seeking higher education.
One topic that came up was the monthly housing allowance
for online students. As you know, veterans taking online
classes currently only receive half of the national average for
their monthly housing allowance. Post COVID more student
veterans are choosing online classes. For example, a
constituent who is a gunnery sergeant in the U.S. Marines who
is dealing with this issue reached out to me in the message. He
said, and I quote, ``The MHA rate has been a massive influence
on my decision and ability to use my earned benefits.''
Especially for veterans like him who have families or other
time commitments, taking online classes can provide much needed
flexibility. I also met a young retired, also--well, formerly
served a single mother in the Veteran Center, wondered the same
issue. That the reason she was taking these classes was because
of her situation with her kids and that was what worked for
her. I was pleased that my friend and chairman here, Chairman
Van Orden, partnered with us and me and introducing H.R. 5702,
the Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act, which
would increase the monthly housing allowance for veteran
students taking online classes to match the amount students
receive for in person classes.
While this bill is limited to the summer semester, I
believe it is an important step in bringing parity in MHA
reimbursements for in person and online students.
My first quick question here to Ms. Keenan, how has
education changed for VFW's membership in recent years? Have
you seen a greater number of VFW memberships attend online
school?
Ms. Keenan. Thank you for the question, Mr. Ciscomani.
We know that veterans are often non traditional students.
They may have a spouse, dependents, they may work, they may
have service-connected disabilities that limit their ability to
go and do things in person every single day. Our membership is
attending more and more online classes. The essence of why we
support this bill is because we want students to have the
flexibility to choose what is best for their life
circumstances. The housing benefit is going to ensure that they
are successful, that they have the stability that they need.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you. Thank you.
Ms. Barlet, I appreciate the testimony you submitted to the
committee and the assistance our office received from Student
Veterans of America in drafting this legislation and your
testimony both written and today. You mentioned Josh Jones, who
was previously the SVA chapter president at Loyola University.
Can you elaborate why the MHA for online students can be
difficult for students as they enroll in classes with limited
availability?
Ms. Barlet. Yes. Thank you, Representative Ciscomani.
Actually, Josh Jones is in town this week. As SVA's Student
Veteran of the Year he is placed on SVA's board of Directors,
and they are all having a meeting.
Mr. Ciscomani. Wonderful.
Ms. Barlet. Looking at as a student veteran, you are
looking at not just the degree that you are pursuing, but the
institution that you want to pursue that degree. Then you also
have the opportunity, keep in mind that you have two choices,
you can do brick and mortar or you can do an online class. Even
as Josh faced, a brick and mortar was his intention, but as he
went along his degree, his summer classes were forced online. A
budget that he had produced for himself had had the MHA all
lined up that he would be a brick and mortar and have that
institution MHA kind of like took him for a step back when his
classes were forced online during the summer session and then
he was forced online then decreasing by almost $5,000 for that
3 month term.
Like Ms. Keenan mentioned, for student veterans we have a
lot of things going on in our life. I myself took my master's
degree online prior to COVID at George Washington University,
and I felt the education I got at that time really helped me
sustain to where I am right now. Not only was the classes an
opportunity to fit within my schedule, but I studied globally
with other students from around the world and I was able to
share my culture as a veteran and American and how I was seeing
our health system at that time and then also getting ideas and
seeing other things through other individuals' eyes. By the
time I was finished with my master's degree, I had a better
perspective.
Mr. Ciscomani. Thank you. Thank you so much.
Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mr. Ciscomani.
The chair now recognize Mrs. Ramirez from the great State
of Illinois.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman.
In the first panel we talked a little bit about housing and
certainly we started talking also about employment. I want to
thank every single witness for being here. I know that the last
few weeks we have been trying to get our committee hearings up
and running, so we are glad you are here. I want to also just
give a special thank you to the Student Veterans of America for
your critical work you do to ensure that veterans receive and
maximize their education benefits.
As you know, self improvement and self sufficiency are
interconnected with education, employment, and housing. Often I
say that housing stability intersects with financial stability,
and therefore education and employment are critical to that.
I want to go in a little bit more on housing, which we did
a little in the first panel, but I think it is just following
up to what Congressman Ciscomani was talking about,
particularly around housing allowance. Any of you, I mean, can
you describe how important it is for veterans to have access to
housing and the kinds of barriers veterans face when they do
not have that full housing allowance?
Ms. Barlet. Thank you, ma'am, for that question. I will go
first.
By not having that parity of the monthly housing allowance
kind of kicks off their budget for their monthly ideals and how
they can expense the rest of their expenses through their
budget. I know myself my rent is the first thing I pay and if I
do not have that money up full, that kind of puts me behind for
everything else. Financial security in a house is going to give
you safety and safety is just going to help your mental
stability as you are going through and studying and being that
individual in your community and that family member that your
family needs.
Ms. Ramirez. Yes, thank you.
I want to switch a little, and I want to ask Ms. Barlet
specifically the legislation titled Expanding Access for Online
Veteran Students Act, it would aim to make all programs for all
students eligible for full MHA during summer terms. That has
resulted in this proposal having a significant cost, according
to the CBO. Is this proposal the ideal way you would aim to
assist students experiencing particular hardships accessing
individual programs, or would you model legislation differently
to assist students?
Ms. Barlet. This piece of legislation is definitely a
starter conversation and we hope that this leads to more
conversations to have the parity of MHA as an online learner
and as a brick and mortar learner.
Ms. Ramirez. Thank you, Chairman. I yield back. Thank you.
Mr. Van Orden. Thank you, Mrs. Ramirez.
The chair now recognizes Mr. Nunn from the great State of
Iowa.
Mr. Nunn. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I want to say thank you to our fearless chairman
here from the great State of Wisconsin, both a VFW and an
American Legion fellow. I appreciate your service and honored
to serve with you in that capacity in our new roles today.
With that, I would like to take us back to where we are
presently. Many in this community are combat veterans like
ourselves, others are members of our community who are watching
as equally horrified as I am with the events unfolding in
Israel. The destruction of that community forces us as
Americans to reflect upon our own service, our commitment to
our family, our friends, and those who we live with. I am here
today not just as a U.S. Member of Congress, but as a 20 year
Air Force veteran who has served in combat operations as many
here around the world. It is as a commander I watched my own
forces struggle with life that came after their military
service.
Today I carry before us a message for those who can no
longer speak. Specifically, I speak in honor of Corporal Adam
Lambert, a proud Marine from Adel, Iowa, in my home community.
He loved his family, he loved his friends, and he loved his
country. He put himself before family, friends, and country
time after time. Adam bravely served our country in the
Marines, deploying to Okinawa and then on to Afghanistan.
During boot camp, he made a battle buddy named Daniel Harvey
from Rhode Island. These two became fast friends and connected
through their deployments and tried to maintain that through
their return home to the U.S. At 22 years old, Daniel became a
victim of suicide just after a year leaving the Marines. Adam,
his best friend, followed with him less than a month later.
Adam was a beloved son and a brother and a friend.
Unfortunately, this story is all too common for our fellow
service members when they come home from duty. In my home State
of Iowa, sadly, we have a suicide rate for veterans four times
that of the national average. Something, Mr. Chair, has to be
done. That is why I am proud to work with members in this room
when I led the introduction of H.R. 3722, the Daniel J. Harvey,
Jr. and Adam Lambert Improving Service Member Transition to
Reduce Veteran Suicide Act.
As we all know, veteran suicide is another casualty of war,
one that demands immediate attention and action by our Members
of Congress.
I want to thank you to the committee is here today and
speak a little more specifically on what we can do to continue
to help our veterans as they transition at some point from
their military life to their civilian life.
Mr. Barefield, I will begin with you first. I want to thank
you for your support. I want to speak specifically to the
Transition Assistance Program and speak to any issues that have
gone unnoticed or overlooked in recent years and how we could
continue to improve this program even further, sir.
Mr. Barefield. Thank you for the question.
As I mentioned in my oral statement, when I went through
the TAP program more than 25 years ago and the way that I felt
after I left my years of service with the United States Army,
there were days where I just felt I was thrown away. I got a
service-connected disability and was released basically because
of the fact that I was non deployable anymore. In those initial
months after service, I felt like nobody really cared. Being
able to have mental health services available to me during that
timeframe would have been very beneficial. I did not do the
ultimate act like the gentleman that you mentioned earlier, but
it was not far from my thought process. Being able to have
those services available are crucial because you are talking
about a very tender time period. Those first 12 months after
being medically retired, retired or discharged from service, is
a very tender time. A lot of service members are out in the fog
about what to do or what is available to them. Being able to
indicate and note those services are there for them is very
important.
Mr. Nunn. Thank you, Mr. Barefield. I would agree.
Deputy Director Keenan, thank you for your service as well
and your continued service with the VFW.
You recommended including provisions that would require a
health assessment and treatment plans to be conducted in
private at the VA. Talk to us about what the current practice
is and if there is any recommendations you would have on that
front for mental health.
Ms. Keenan. Thank you for that.
I think our recommendation has to do with including this in
TAP and having an opportunity within the program for some one
on one private counseling, if that is required by the service
member, if they seek that, so that they can actually discuss
some of those issues, maybe outside of the class, but still
with somebody who can provide the resources that they need.
Mr. Nunn. Much appreciated. Thank you.
We can all be strong and uniform, but as we make that
transition, we need that access to it.
Mr. Chair, I yield my time, and thank you for your service.
Mr. Van Orden. Well, thank you, sir.
Mr. Nunn, you are always welcome here, and I hope you
understand that the support behind your bill is unanimous.
There are a couple things we got to tweak on it, but you know
it is my number one legislative priority as the chairman of the
subcommittee to prevent veteran suicide.
We are good? He is an Air Force guy. You know.
I want to thank everybody for coming here today. It is
critically important that we get together periodically and talk
about these things.
Before I turn over to Ranking Member Levin, Ms. Keenan, I
understand that there are some people that came to this
committee hearing today?
Ms. Keenan. Yes, I have my family here.
Mr. Van Orden. If you are related to this veteran, please
stand up. Okay. Then there is a guy right there with the mask
on. What is his name? Stand up, you. Hey, I am talking to you,
pal. What is your name, son?
Mr. Giannini. My name is Luke, sir.
Mr. Van Orden. You are an Army veteran?
Mr. Giannini. I am.
Mr. Van Orden. What are you doing 48 hours from now?
Mr. Giannini. I am getting married to Ms. Keenan.
Mr. Van Orden. That is right, he is getting married! Hey,
if you want, when we get done here, get your family and
everybody come up, we will take pictures behind here and
everything. It is a big day. Congratulations very much. You
guys are all awesome.
I now recognize Ranking Member Levin for his closing
comments.
Mr. Levin. I cannot follow that. We will just leave it
there. Appreciate it.
Mr. Van Orden. This hearing stands adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:09 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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A P P E N D I X
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Prepared Statements of Witnesses
----------
Prepared Statement of Joseph Garcia
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and other Members of the
Subcommittee, thank you for inviting us here today to present our views
on several bills that would affect VA programs and services. Joining me
today are Mr. Nick Pamperin, Executive Director of Veterans Readiness &
Employment Services, and Mr. James Ruhlman, Deputy Director of
Education Service.
H.R. 522 Deliver for Veterans Act
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3902(a) to add the total
shipping price to deliver an automobile or other conveyance to the
financial assistance provided to a Veteran as part of VA's purchase of
an automobile or other conveyance for an eligible Veteran.
VA supports this bill, subject to the availability of
appropriations. It is a Veteran-centric bill that could increase the
automobile or other conveyance allowance benefit for Veterans.
Under section 3902(a), the total purchase price of an automobile or
other conveyance currently includes payment of all state, local and
other taxes in VA's automobile allowance benefit. However, the Veteran
bears an unstated and unintended burden for any shipping costs relating
to a vehicle's purchase. Amending the law to include the shipping cost
could remove a cost burden to any Veteran using this benefit.
This bill has no additional language to define what constitutes
``total shipping price'' for delivery to the Veteran. Shipping prices
can vary depending on the geographical locations involved and the
shipping methods used. VA could implement this section in regulation to
define more specific parameters on how shipping costs would be defined
and calculated.
Additionally, VA notes that if this bill were enacted, the limit on
the total amount of authorized financial assistance as defined in
sections 3902(a) and (e) would remain intact. Section 3902(a) states:
``The Secretary, under regulations which the Secretary shall prescribe,
shall provide or assist in providing an automobile or other conveyance
to each eligible person by paying the total purchase price of the
automobile or other conveyance (including all State, local, and other
taxes) or $18,900 (as adjusted from time to time under subsection (e)),
whichever is the lesser.'' Thus, shipping costs would be paid only if
the total purchase price of the vehicle is less than the current
maximum payment of $24,115.12, effective October 1, 2022.
In the context of automobile allowance benefits for Veterans, VA
recommends that Congress make technical corrections to amendments made
by section 22 of the Veterans Auto and Education Improvement Act of
2022 (P.L. 117-333). Section 22 amended the definition of medical
services under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 1701(6) to include the provision of
medically necessary van lifts, raised doors, raised roofs, air
conditioning and wheelchair tiedowns for passenger use. We understand
this section was intended to codify VA's existing practice of
furnishing certain items, including van lifts, raised roofs, air
conditioning and wheelchair tiedowns for passenger use as articulated
in paragraph 5.e. of Veterans Health Administration (VHA) Handbook
1173.4, Automobile Adaptive Equipment Program. However, VHA has used
these as examples, whereas the statute defines these specifically as
the only types of modifications that are permissible.
Consequently, we recommend technical amendments to 38 U.S.C. Sec.
1701(6) to authorize lowered floors, ramp and kneeling systems,
mobility device lifts (not just van lifts) and ingress or egress
accessibility modifications. We also recommend wheelchair tiedowns not
be limited for passenger use. We believe these changes would reflect
Congressional intent and not inadvertently limit the scope of an
existing benefit. VA's practice has evolved, consistent with its policy
and with industry standards, to include modifications to the types of
vehicles Veterans most frequently drive--minivans, trucks and sport
utility vehicles.
Mandatory costs to the Readjustment Benefits account are estimated
to be $8.5 million in 2024, $62.3 million over 5 years, and $132.7
million over 10 years. No discretionary costs are associated.
H.R. 2830 Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act of 2023
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3680A(e) to modify the rules
for approval of commercial driver education programs. Currently, under
section 3680A(e)(2), the Secretary may not approve the enrollment of an
eligible Veteran in a course not leading to a standard college degree
offered by a for-profit or non-profit educational institution if the
course is offered at a branch of the educational institution and the
branch has been operating for less than 2 years. The bill would exempt
a commercial driver education program from this limitation if the
commercial driver education program for a branch of an educational
institution is appropriately licensed and uses the same curriculum as a
commercial driver education program offered by the educational
institution at another location that is approved under 38 U.S.C. Ch. 36
by a State Approving Agency (SAA) or the Secretary when acting in the
role of an SAA.
To be exempt, the educational institution providing the commercial
driver education program offered at a branch would have to submit a
report to the Secretary each year that demonstrates that the curriculum
at the new branch is the same as the curriculum at the primary
location. The report would have to be submitted in accordance with
requirements established by the Secretary in consultation with SAAs. VA
would have to establish the report requirements not later than 180 days
after the date of enactment.
The Secretary could withhold an exemption for any educational
institution or branch of an educational institution as the Secretary
considers appropriate. In making an exemption determination, the
Secretary could consult with the Secretary of Transportation on a
provider's performance of a commercial driver program, including the
status of the provider within the Training Provider Registry of the
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration when appropriate.
The amendments made by this bill would apply to commercial driver
education programs on and after the date that is 180 days after the
date the Secretary establishes the reporting requirements.
VA supports this bill. VA believes permitting approval of a course
offered at a branch with less than a 2-year operation period under
certain circumstances would provide more training opportunities for
Veterans and boost employment in this occupational area, while still
maintaining SAA authority and oversight.
No mandatory or discretionary costs are associated with this bill.
H.R. 3601 Student Veteran Work Study Modernization Act
This bill would establish a 5-year pilot program to expand
eligibility for the work-study allowance under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3485 to
Veterans participating in a rehabilitation program or education program
at a half-time training rate or more. The bill would require the VA to
provide a report 180 days after the enactment of the bill (and then
annually thereafter) to Congress regarding Veterans who participate in
work-study. The report would have to include information regarding the
number of participating Veterans, the percentage of Veterans who obtain
a 4-year degree and the number of Veterans who obtain full-time work at
VA. The bill would be subject to the statutory Pay-As-You-Go Act of
2010 and must show how the bill would affect mandatory spending and
revenues.
VA would support the bill, if amended, and subject to the
availability of appropriations. VA recommends, in lieu of a 5-year
pilot program, Congress amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3485 to permanently allow
for Veterans in a rehabilitation program or education program
participating at a rate equal to at least half-time of that required of
a full-time student to participate in the work-study program.
Mandatory costs to the Readjustment Benefits account are estimated
to be $3.2 million in 2024, $19.6 million over five years, and $19.6
million over 10 years. VA anticipates discretionary costs for H.R.
3601; but, due to the comprehensive nature of this bill, a complete
analysis could not be completed, and additional time is needed to
provide an accurate cost estimate.
H.R. 3722 Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to Daniel J.
Harvey, Jr. and Adam Lambert Improving Servicemember Transition to
Reduce Veteran Suicide Act
Section 2(a) of this bill would amend 10 U.S.C. Sec. 1142(b) and
require the Department of Defense (DoD) to cover the following mental
health information during pre-separation counseling:
(1) The availability of mental health services furnished by the
appropriate branch of service, DoD, VA or a non-profit entity;
(2) The treatment of post-traumatic stress disorder, traumatic
brain injury, anxiety disorders, depression, chronic pain,
sleep disorders, suicidal ideation or other mental health
conditions associated with military service;
(3) The risk of suicide, including signs, symptoms and risk
factors (including adverse childhood experiences, depression,
bipolar disorder, homelessness, unemployment and relationship
strain);
(4) The availability of treatment options and resources to
address substance abuse, including alcohol, prescription drug
and opioid abuse;
(5) The potential effects of the loss of community and support
systems experienced by a member separating from the Armed
Forces;
(6) Isolation from family, friends or society; and
(7) The potential stressors associated with separation from the
Armed Forces.
Section 2(b) would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 6320(b)(1) by requiring
the VA Solid Start (VASS) program to assist eligible Veterans who elect
to enroll in the patient enrollment system and to educate Veterans
about mental health and counseling services available through Veterans
Health Administration (VHA). Section 2(c) would require DoD and VA to
jointly submit a report to Congress on the information and materials
developed pursuant to the amendments made by this bill.
VA would support section 2 of this bill, if amended.
Collaboratively, VA and DoD use several programs to provide benefits
and services aimed to help reduce or eliminate risk factors associated
with suicide while increasing protective factors for Veterans. VA could
work with DoD to provide the information outlined under section 2(a)
through the interagency governance structure for the Transition
Assistance Program (TAP). VA supports section 2(a).
With regards to section 2(b), VA has concerns the bill may restrict
the intent of the VASS program. Under current 38 U.S.C. Sec. 6320,
VASS employees conduct individualized conversations truly tailored to
the unique situation and needs of recently separated Service members to
increase awareness and use of VA benefits and services.
The Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) launched VASS in
December 2019 to provide support for recently separated Veterans.
Through VASS, VA provides early and consistent caring contact to newly
separated Veterans at least three times during their critical first
year of transition from the military at 0-90, 91-180 and 181-365 days
post-discharge from active duty. During these calls, specially trained
VA representatives address issues or challenges the Veteran identifies
and assist them access benefits, services, health care (including
mental health care), education and employment opportunities. After each
successful connection, the VASS representative provides the Veteran a
comprehensive follow-up email that provides information on all issues
discussed and lists connections for additional support and assistance.
This email specifically provides contact information for service
organizations and connections to state Veteran resources, based on
information provided by the Veteran regarding where they currently or
intend to reside. For fiscal year (FY) 2023, VASS successfully
connected with 197,615 (72.1 percent) eligible Veterans. VASS also
provides priority contact to individuals meeting certain risk factors
during the last year of active duty, supporting a successful transition
to VA mental health care treatment.
VASS representatives receive special training to identify recently
separated Service members who may be at-risk, and procedures are in
place to facilitate an immediate warm transfer to the Veterans Crisis
Line, when appropriate. VASS ensures all Veterans are given resources
and assistance for the full array of VA benefits and services based on
their personalized VASS interview. Additionally, VASS employees
currently assist eligible Veterans with VHA enrollment when desired by
the Veteran and provide information about mental health care and
counseling services when driven by the Veteran's needs. Having the
current section 2(b) language mandated in statute would curtail the
flexibility for individualized conversations.
VA feels adding new section 6320(b)(1)(G) and (b)(1)(H) would be
unnecessary as they are duplicative of the work already done under the
VASS program, as summarized above. Further, new subparagraph (H) would
require the VASS program to provide this information to all VASS-
eligible individuals, regardless of their interest in the service,
which would undermine program goals of a personalized VASS experience
tailored to the unique needs of the Veteran. VA would be required to
allocate resources to allow for the extended time it would take to
discuss these services with each VASS-eligible individual, which could
negatively impact the overall program's successful connection rate. VA
would need funding to support the implementation and maintenance of
this bill. For these reasons, VA recommends removal of section 2(b)
from the bill.
No mandatory costs are associated with this bill. No discretionary
costs are associated with this proposed legislation, if requested
amendments are made.
H.R. 3738 Establishment of Veterans Economic Opportunity and
Transition Administration
Section 1 of this bill would create a new 38 U.S.C. Ch. 80 and
establish within VA a new Veterans Economic Opportunity and Transition
Administration (VEOTA) with the function of administering VA programs
that provide assistance related to economic opportunity to Veterans and
their dependents and survivors.
Under proposed 38 U.S.C. Sec. 8002, VEOTA would be responsible for
administering the following VA programs:
(1) Vocational rehabilitation and employment programs;
(2) Educational assistance programs;
(3) Veterans' housing loan and related programs;
(4) Verification of small businesses owned and controlled by
Veterans pursuant to 38 U.S.C. Sec. 8127(f), including the
administration of the data base of Veteran-owned businesses;
(5) the Transition Assistance Program (TAP) under 10 U.S.C.
Sec. 1144; and
(6) Any other VA program the Secretary determines appropriate.
Under proposed 38 U.S.C. Sec. 8003, the Secretary would be
required to provide an annual report to Congress regarding program-
related data from the fiscal year covered by the report. The effective
date for implementation would be October 1, 2024. For FY 2024 and FY
2025, the total number of full-time equivalent employees authorized for
VBA and VEOTA would not be able to exceed (1) 34,228 in FY 2024 and (2)
35,417 in FY 2025. Any labor rights, inclusion in the bargaining unit
and collective bargaining agreement that would affect a VA employee who
is transferred to VEOTA would apply in the same manner to such employee
after the transfer.
Section 2 of the bill would establish the position of the Under
Secretary for Veterans Economic Opportunity and Transition, outline the
Under Secretary's responsibilities and establish the procedures under
which the position would be filled.
Section 3 of the bill would require VA to report to Congress,
within 180 days of the date of enactment, on the progress toward
establishing VEOTA and prevent the transfer of functions to VEOTA until
VA certifies to Congress that the transition of services to VEOTA will
not negatively affect the services provided and that services are ready
to be transferred.
VA does not support this bill. VA appreciates Congress' focus on
improving services and resources offered by these programs; however,
VBA's current structure appropriately reflects the Under Secretary for
Benefits' overall responsibility for Veterans benefits programs that
include those related to economic opportunity and transition, as well
as compensation, pension, survivors' benefits and insurance.
We recommend removing proposed section 8002(4), which would move
the Office of Small and Disadvantaged Business Utilization's (OSDBU)
Center for Verification and Evaluation (CVE) program to the new
administration. OSDBU currently reports directly to the Deputy
Secretary. OSDBU's mission is to advocate for the maximum practicable
participation of small, small-disadvantaged, Veteran-owned, women-owned
and empowerment-zone businesses in contracts VA awards and in
subcontracts VA's prime contractors award.
This bill would move the CVE program which, according to this bill,
administers the verification program required for Service-Disabled
Veteran-Owned Small Businesses and Veteran-Owned Small Businesses and
maintains the vendor information page data base, to the new
administration. However, the verification program is no longer with VA
and was transferred to the Small Business Administration as of January
2023 by the FY 2021 National Defense Authorization Act, and 38 U.S.C.
Sec. 8127(f) is now obsolete.
VBA's portfolio of benefits is thriving. The Education, Loan
Guaranty, Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) and Outreach,
Transition and Economic Development (OTED) programs are part of an
integrated suite of interdependent services and benefits that also
includes compensation, pension and insurance programs. Together, they
form a suite of benefit-related resources that Veterans can rely on.
In FY 2022, VA processed over 3.5 million education claims in an
average of 6.7 days. Over 1.3 million claims were automated, delivering
real-time benefit decisions to Veterans and their dependents. VA paid
over $9.9 billion in education benefits for 834,460 Veterans and their
beneficiaries. VA guaranteed 746,091 loans worth $256.6 billion in FY
2022. Loan Guaranty also assisted 205,702 borrowers retain
homeownership and/or avoid foreclosure, resulting in a $3.99 billion
savings in estimated foreclosure costs to the government. VR&E helps
Service members and Veterans with service-connected disabilities and a
barrier to employment prepare for, find and maintain suitable jobs
through counseling and case management. There were over 124,400 VR&E
participants in FY 2022, with more than 30,500 new plans developed to
assist Veterans and over 11,800 Veteran rehabilitations.
For those Service members transitioning out of the military, OTED
offered additional focus on helping them move more effectively into
civilian life, both socially and economically. VA's commitment to
support Service members' transition from the military is shown through
the VASS program, as discussed above. Since the launch in December 2019
through September 2023, VASS has successfully connected with 398,081
recently separated Veterans, representing a 70.7 percent successful
contact rate. This includes a total of 197,615 successful contacts in
FY 2023.
Additionally, VA continues to partner with DoD to ensure that
separating Service members are focused on their transition as early as
possible and begin civilian life on the right foot.
To support the adjudication and delivery of Veteran-and Service
member-earned benefits, VBA also has many enabling staff offices, such
as finance, Human Resources (HR), facilities, production optimization,
outreach and engagement, field operations, business process
integration, strategic program management, performance analyses,
communications and executive review. These enabling organizations would
have to be recreated within the new administration to effectively
operate, requiring additional executive leadership and replicated
structures. Adding another administration would increase the leadership
oversight for programs that are currently in place, contrary to the
modernization efforts that are underway.
With respect to section 2 of the bill, the procedure for filling
the position of the VEOTA Under Secretary is the same as filling the
positions of the Under Secretary for Benefits, the Under Secretary for
Health and the Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs. Should this bill
establishing VEOTA be enacted, VA agrees this should be the procedure
for selecting the new VEOTA Under Secretary. However, we note that
proposed new section 306A(c) would require VA to create a commission to
recommend individuals to the President for appointment to the new Under
Secretary position and would establish membership requirements and the
function of the commission, which would implicate Chapter 10 of Title
5, U.S. Code (commonly known as the Federal Advisory Committee Act
(FACA)). Therefore, unless Congress specifically exempts the commission
from compliance with FACA in the statute, a new VA federal advisory
committee would have to be established to carry out the provision.
Additionally, should this bill establishing VEOTA be enacted, VA
would need ample time to plan for this considerable transition.
Therefore, while VA remains committed to communicating closely with the
Committees, it does not support a specified timeframe for reporting or
certification.
VA anticipates discretionary General Operating Expense costs would
result from enacting this bill for Management Direction and Support for
enabling staff offices (aforementioned finance, HR, facilities,
outreach and engagement, field operations, business process
integration, strategic program management, performance analyses,
communications and executive review), which would include payroll and
non-pay costs (travel, contract support, centralized payments, etc.).
Due to the comprehensive nature of this bill, a complete analysis could
not be completed, and additional time is needed to provide an accurate
cost estimate. No mandatory costs would be associated with the bill.
While no benefit costs are associated with the bill, the appropriation
language for the Readjustment Benefits account and the Credit Reform
account would have to change to reflect the title of the new
administration.
H.R. 3816 Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
This bill would create a new 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3687A to authorize VA
to treat a pre-apprenticeship program in the same manner as an
apprenticeship program for the purpose of providing educational
assistance. A pre-apprenticeship program would mean a program or set of
objectives designed to prepare individuals to enter and succeed in a
registered apprenticeship program that has a documented partnership
with at least one sponsor. A pre-apprenticeship program would be
covered under the bill if the curriculum of the program is approved by
a sponsor and the sponsor certifies to VA that the program will prepare
an individual with the skills and competencies needed to enroll in a
registered apprenticeship program. The program would also have to
maintain conduct and attendance policies in accordance with a sponsor.
For purposes of this bill, a sponsor would mean an entity that formally
supports the pre-apprenticeship program, including a registered
apprenticeship program; a department or agency of a state or local
government; an institution of higher learning; or any other public,
private or non-profit entity that the Secretary determines to be a
sponsor for purposes of this section.
An individual would be entitled to educational assistance under
this provision if they are entitled to educational assistance under 38
U.S.C. Ch. 30, 32, 33, 34 or 35 or 10 U.S.C. Ch. 1606 and are seeking
to use their educational assistance for a program of apprenticeship. A
covered individual enrolled in a pre-apprenticeship program would
receive educational assistance equal to the amount received by an
individual in an apprenticeship program. However, if the covered
individual is not paid as part of the pre-apprenticeship program, the
individual under chapter 33 of title 38 would still receive a monthly
housing allowance (MHA). The MHA would be equal to the monthly amount
of the basic allowance for housing payable under 37 U.S.C. Sec. 403
for a member with dependents in pay grade E-5 residing in the military
housing area that encompasses all or the majority portion of the ZIP
Code area of the pre-apprenticeship program. The covered individual's
entitlement would be charged at a rate equal to the rate charged for an
apprenticeship program. The bill would apply to an individual who
enrolls in a program of pre-apprenticeship beginning on or after the
date of enactment of this bill.
VA understands the intent of the proposed legislation, but does not
support this bill.
Mandatory costs to the Readjustment Benefits account are estimated
to be $11.9 million in 2024, $65.4 million over five years, and $144.4
million over 10 years. No VBA administrative costs are associated with
this bill. VA estimates the information technology costs associated
with the enactment of this legislation to be $5 million, which includes
the design, code development, testing, and deployment of the new
functionality in existing information technology systems. VA would need
to make changes to the functionality in the Digital GI Bill to include
pre-apprenticeship programs. VA estimates that it would require 6
months from the date of enactment to make the necessary information
technology changes.
VA is concerned that putting pre-apprenticeship programs on a level
playing field with Registered Apprenticeship (RA) programs for purposes
of GI bill benefits receipt will lead to poorer outcomes for Veterans.
The definitional parameters and safeguards of pre-apprenticeship
programs are extremely limited as compared to RA, and we know that many
individuals exit pre-apprenticeship programs with little-improved labor
market prospects. Opening up GI Bill benefits to this class of programs
may lead Veterans to waste precious GI Bill benefits on low-quality
programs.
VA has concerns that SAA approval of pre-apprenticeship programs
will not serve as a significant quality assurance mechanism. Pre-
apprenticeship programs are wholly unregulated in the United States and
even DOL itself does not have outcome information on the vast majority
of pre-apprenticeship programs. It is challenging to imagine SAAs
bringing order and quality assurance to this system, even with the most
well-intentioned, well-designed approval process.
H.R. 5190 Military Family Protection from Debt Act
This bill would amend section 207 of the Servicemembers Civil
Relief Act (50 U.S.C. Sec. 3937) to expand certain protections to
dependents of members of the Armed Forces.
VA defers to DoD and DOJ.
H.R. 5913 Consolidating Veteran Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act of 2023
Section 2 of this bill would transfer the Department of Labor's
(DOL) Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS) and its programs
to VA effective October 1, 2025. The functions that would be
transferred would include job counseling, training and placement
services for Veterans under 38 U.S.C. Ch. 41; Federal Government
employment services under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 4214; administration of
employment and reemployment rights under 38 U.S.C. Ch. 43; homeless
Veterans reintegration programs under 38 U.S.C. Ch. 20; and employment
and Veterans benefits training under TAP (10 U.S.C. Sec. 1144). The
transfer would include all personnel, assets, liabilities, grants,
contracts, property, records and funding pertaining to those programs.
The bill would also require VA to enter into a memorandum of
agreement with DOL and with states, as VA determines necessary, to
implement the transition of the DOL programs to VA. The bill would also
establish that, in FY 2027 and for each subsequent fiscal year, the
President would include, in the President's budget request for VA,
funding for the transferred functions.
Section 3 of the bill would establish a Deputy Under Secretary for
Veterans' Employment and Training. Furthermore, section 4 of the bill
would require states to employ and assign full-time and part-time
Veteran employment specialists in state agencies to carry out
employment, training and placement services. The bill would also place
maximum emphasis on assisting economically or educationally
disadvantaged Veterans.
VA strongly opposes the bill. DOL works with VA to provide
individualized career counseling and training related to eligible
Veterans with service-connected disabilities and help employers fill
their workforce needs with employment-seeking Veterans. Through DOL
programs, Disabled Veterans' Outreach Program specialists provide
services to eligible Veterans experiencing significant barriers to
employment.
The bill would also amend VA's prioritization of services.
Currently, to the maximum extent possible, VA prioritizes meeting the
needs of Veterans with disabilities and Veterans who served on active
duty during a war or in a campaign or expedition for which a campaign
badge had been authorized. However, the bill would emphasize assisting
economically or educationally disadvantaged Veterans. While Veterans
with disabilities may fall into this category, VA's priority should
remain serving Veterans with disabilities. Veterans with disabilities
continue to encounter obstacles in obtaining and maintaining suitable
employment and often need more intensive services to meet their
employment goal. Therefore, removing this prioritization would harm
Veterans with disabilities.
The bill would align employment and Veterans benefits training
under VA's TAP. VA disagrees with this as it would remove subject-
matters experts from DOL involved with administering a program outside
of VA's scope. This would be harmful to Veterans and limit the
resources to which they would have access in seeking employment and
training. Further, VA's curriculum is designed as a one-day course,
focused on VA benefits and services. Adding additional material from
DOL would cause program degradation and integrity issues.
The bill would also effectively change the title of Disabled
Veterans' Outreach Program to Veteran Employment specialists, which
appears to be more suited to the change in the prioritization of
services, as reflected in the bill. However, VA notes concerns over the
implications to pay and compensation for these specialists as well as
the lack of uniform qualifications standards for these positions. The
bill would also require VA to ensure that the Veteran employment
specialists are properly trained, meaning VA would need to develop a
certification program for the state employees and monitor proficiency.
Consideration should be given to converting these specialists from
state agency employees to VA employees, similar to the Veteran
employment specialists in VA's VR&E program.
VA also has concerns regarding the reorganization and realignment
implications with transferring the personnel from DOL to VA. VA would
need to consider whether internal offices and administrations need to
be reorganized to clearly delineate the responsibilities where similar
or complementary roles may be impacted by the transfer of functions,
such as between VBA and VA's Office of Human Resources and
Administration/Operations, Security and Preparedness (HRA/OSP). HRA/OSP
includes the Office of Veteran and Military Spouse Engagement Program
(under the Office of the Chief Human Capital Officer) and oversees
policy and other functions related to the Uniformed Services Employment
and Reemployment Rights (USERRA) functions under 38 U.S.C. Ch. 43. Any
internal reorganization and realignment would need additional time,
funding and resources to execute.
Related to the reorganization and realignment concerns, VA has
concerns with the new position of the VEOTA Deputy Under Secretary.
Further clarification is needed as to where the position would sit in
VA and regarding appointment requirements for the position. One issue
to highlight is that the position is assigned to address Departmental
policies and procedures, which would include USERRA under chapter 43
and Federal Government employment services under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 4214.
Those specific functions touch on personnel management, which are
functions specifically assigned to an Assistant Secretary (A/S) to
oversee under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 308. Currently, those functions are
assigned to the A/S of HRA/OSP. The bill may create a conflict in
duties between the Deputy Under Secretary position and the A/S of HRA/
OSP.
The bill would transfer the administration of these and other
services from DOL to VA effective October 1, 2025. However, the bill
would not authorize funding for VA to administer this program until FY
2027. The lack of funding may cause delays in providing individualized
career and training services to eligible Veterans. Given the national
implications and magnitude of the changes outlined, VA would need
additional time to fully examine the impact and scale of preparation
that would be required for VA to implement the transfer of the
functions identified.
We understand that DOL opposes this bill, as discussed in its
testimony.
H.R. XXXX Improve the Processes to Approve Programs of Education
Section 1(a) of the bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3679(f)(1)(A)
to add ``to the maximum extent practicable'' to the requirement that
schools provide an individual with a form that contains certain
personalized financial information prior to enrolling the individual in
a course of education. Section 1(b) would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec.
3680A(a)(4)(B)(iii) to allow for the approval of an independent study
program that leads to a certificate for a course of study offered by an
institution of higher education described in section 102 of the Higher
Education Act of 1965 (20 U.S.C. Sec. 1002) that is qualified to
participate in the student financial assistance programs authorized by
Title IV of that Act, including a community college, proprietary school
and any other institution of higher education that is eligible to
participate in Federal student financial aid programs. Section 1(c)
would require VA to establish a website that is updated regularly and
serves as a central location for publishing information about the
training VA provides for School Certifying Officials (SCO).
VA does not support the bill. VA does not support section 1(a) of
the bill. Currently, schools are allowed to use the College Financing
Plan available through the Department of Education to satisfy the
requirements to provide students with certain financial information. VA
believes schools should be required to provide an individual with a
form that contains certain personalized financial information prior to
enrolling the individual in a course of education.
While VA has no objections to the proposed changes in section 1(b)
of the bill, VA believes this section is unnecessary. Currently, VA has
the authority to approve independent study programs offered by
proprietary institutions of higher education as these programs are
described in 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3680A(a)(4)(B)(ii).
While VA has no objection to section 1(c) of the bill, VA believes
this section is unnecessary because VA currently has a website that
provides information about the training VA provides to SCOs. On the GI
Bill website, VA has established and provides a one-stop shop for SCOs
and school administrators at https://www.va.gov/school-administrators/.
The webpage includes training and guides, upcoming events, policies and
procedures and resources to support students. Moreover, the webpage
provides a direct link to VBA Education Service's current and previous
webinars and training at https://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/resources/
education_resources/school_certifying_officials/presentations.asp. On
this page, SCOs can review topics that will be discussed in future
Office Hours and review previous webinars.
VA has not completed its cost estimate for this bill.
H.R. 5702 Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act
The bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3313(c)(1)(B) to establish an
amount payable for the MHA under the Post-9/11 GI Bill for an
individual pursuing a program of education solely through distance
learning that is shorter than 12 weeks during the summer. Under the
bill, such an individual would receive the national average of the MHA
payable under the Post-9/11 GI Bill. The amendments would apply to a
program of education beginning on or after August 1, 2024.
VA would support this bill, if amended, and subject to the
availability of appropriations. VA recommends increasing the amount
payable for the MHA to the national average for all individuals
enrolled in a program of education solely through distance learning
under the Post-9/11 GI Bill, not just individuals enrolled in a program
shorter than 12 weeks during the summer. This bill would create a
disparity between participants of the chapter 31 VR&E program who are
eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill rate and participants in the chapter
33 Post-9/11 GI Bill program. While many chapter 31 participants are
eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill benefit, many seek services from
chapter 31 due to their service-connected disabilities. A Veteran with
a service-connected disability should not be placed at a disadvantage
simply by choosing to participate in another VA education benefit.
Additionally, VA does not have a definition for ``summer
programs.'' However, there is a regulatory definition for ``summer
term'' and ``summer session.'' These definitions are found at 38 C.F.R.
Sec. 21.4200(b)(5) and (6), which defines ``summer term'' as ``the
whole of the period of instruction at a school which takes place
between ordinary school years'' that ``may be divided into several
summer sessions'' and defines ``summer session'' as ``any division of a
summer term.'' This definition is limited as it is only applicable to
schools that operate on a traditional semester-based schedule. It could
not be applied to non-traditional term-based programs, for example,
programs with 8-week terms and term start dates throughout the year. It
is unclear how Congress wishes to address educational institutions that
are organized on a year-round enrollment (or rolling admission) basis
and do not have distinct summer terms. Therefore, VA recommends adding
a distinct definition for the term ``summer programs'' in the bill.
Since VA is uncertain regarding Congress' intent and desired outcome
with this proposed legislation, we would be glad to meet with the
appropriate staffers regarding the intent of the bill and to assist
with refining the bill's language to include terms that would clarify
establishing a monthly housing stipend under the Post-9/11 GI Bill for
individuals who pursue summer programs of education solely through
distance learning.
Last, VA would need to make modifications to its existing IT
systems to implement this legislation. Specifically, VA would need to
implement new rules for the Digital GI Bill platform to pay a different
MHA for individuals pursuing a program of education, solely through
distance learning, that is shorter than 12 weeks during the summer.
Mandatory costs to the Readjustment Benefits account are estimated
to be $96.9 million in 2024, $1.5 billion over five years, and $3.5
billion over 10 years. No VBA administrative costs are associated with
this bill. VA estimates the information technology costs associated
with the enactment of this legislation to be $5 million, which includes
the design, code development, testing, and deployment of the new
functionality in existing information technology systems. VA would need
to make changes to the functionality in the Digital GI Bill to pay a
different MHA for individuals pursuing a program of education, solely
through distance learning, that is shorter than 12 weeks during the
summer. VA estimates that it would require 6 months from the date of
enactment to make the necessary information technology changes.
H.R. 5785 Modifications to Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3320(b) by removing the
requirement that an individual must have used all of his or her
educational assistance under the Post-9/11 GI Bill or, based on the
individual's rate of usage, will use all educational assistance within
180 days of applying for benefits under the Science, Technology,
Engineering and Mathematics (STEM) Scholarship. The bill would further
amend section 3320(b) to authorize the STEM Scholarship for graduate
degree programs and change the number of credit hours that must be
completed from 60 to 45 semester hours and from 90 to 67.5 quarter
hours.
This bill would also amend the payment priority in section
3320(c)(1) in which the STEM Scholarship can be awarded when VA
determines there are insufficient funds available to provide additional
benefits to all eligible individuals. Individuals who have used the
highest number of months of chapter 33 educational assistance and
individuals who are using their chapter 33 entitlement to pursue a
program of post-secondary education and who have declared a major would
receive priority under the bill.
Finally, the bill would amend section 3320(d) to specify that an
individual who receives a benefit under this section may use such
benefit only after the individual has used all the educational
assistance to which the individual is entitled under the Post-9/11 GI
Bill.
VA would support the bill, if amended, and subject to the
availability of appropriations. The bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec.
3320(c) to change how VA prioritizes and selects individuals who can
receive additional funds. However, it is unclear how the dual
prioritization in section 3320(c)(1) and (2) should work. Therefore, VA
recommends Congress clarify how VA should determine the appropriate
STEM beneficiaries based on the dual priorities.
Additionally, since the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship's
additional 9 months are available only while enrolled in a STEM
program, it is unclear what should happen if a student changes to a
non-STEM program and the scholarship is revoked.
Mandatory costs to the Readjustment Benefits account are estimated
to be $112.1 million in 2024, $328.7 million over five years, and
$432.7 million over 10 years.
H.R. XXXX Waiver of VA-Guaranteed Housing Loan Fee for a Veteran with
a Service-Connected Disability
This bill would amend 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3729(c)(2)(A) to waive the
loan fee for a Veteran obtaining a VA-guaranteed loan, based on the
date of the Veteran's pre-discharge medical examination, rather than on
the date of a rating or memorandum rating for disability compensation.
VA supports improving the way those transitioning from active duty
receive a loan fee waiver but has significant concerns with the
approach taken in this bill. VA is concerned it could result in a
complex, back-end refund process that would be confusing for Veterans,
Service members, lenders and VA employees, and that the bill could lead
to an unsustainable financial position.
VA would support this bill if amended and provided Congress
identifies the necessary cost offsets. Section 1(a) of the bill would
establish an earlier point in time for a Veteran to be treated as
receiving VA compensation, for home loan purposes. We note that, in
effect, this provision applies to Service members who are considered
Veterans under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3701 or Sec. 3702. Where current
section 3729(c)(2) requires VA to treat a Veteran as receiving
compensation as of the date of a pre-discharge rating or a pre-
discharge memorandum rating, section (1)(a) of the bill would change
the criterion to the date of the medical examination or review that
leads to the rating or memorandum rating.
The earlier-in-time measure would save disabled Veterans thousands
of dollars and prevent delays in closings, as some disabled Veterans
attempt to postpone using their benefits until after they receive their
rating, solely to avoid having to pay the loan fee. This is because, in
general, a Veteran must be receiving compensation to qualify for a loan
fee waiver under section 3729. The loan fee prescribed by section 3729
is the fee collected from each person obtaining a housing loan
guaranteed, insured or made by VA. VA cannot guarantee, insure or make
a loan until the loan fee has been remitted to the Secretary unless a
waiver, as described in subsection (c), applies. Although this bill
would not always prevent the need to collect the loan fee at the
closing, it would ensure those Veterans who obtain a medical
examination or review prior to closing, and are subsequently rated as
eligible for compensation, would have their loan fee refunded.
Section 1(b) of the bill would expand the new criteria to apply
retroactively. VA would be required to issue refunds to any Veteran who
would have been eligible for a waiver of the loan fee had the new
legislation been in effect at the time of their loan closing.
Although VA supports loan fee waivers for disabled Veterans who
close on their loans before receiving their rating, VA is concerned
with the continued expansion of waivers of the loan fee. Part of VA's
commitment to ensuring all eligible Veterans can use their guaranteed
home loan benefits is ensuring continued fiscal soundness of the
program, which relies, in large part, on the statutory loan fee to help
offset guaranty claims. This fee, which was designed to spread program
risk across the portfolio, helps to lower the taxpayer cost of the
guaranty, since VA's home loan program does not require down payments
or monthly mortgage insurance.
VA has seen a steady rise in Veterans who are exempt from paying
the statutory fee: from 32 percent in 2013 to 55 percent in 2023. VA
has also seen an annual increase in the number of active-duty Service
members filing pre-discharge claims under the Benefits Delivery at
Discharge program over the past 4 years. Following enactment of the
Blue Water Navy Act of 2019, VA saw an average annual increase of 2.4
percentage points. VA anticipates further increases related to the
Honoring Our Promise to Address Comprehensive Toxics Act of 2022. As
the percentage of waivers increases, the program's ability to cover the
Federal Government's loan guaranty commitments without taxpayer funding
could be in jeopardy. VA is concerned that, over time, the number of
individuals exempt from paying the loan fee will inch closer to 100
percent.
Additionally, VA is concerned about the use of experienced, senior-
level staff likely needed to process these refunds, particularly if
section 1(b) of the bill is enacted as drafted. Although VA is
accustomed to processing loan fee refunds for retroactive disability
compensation awards, this bill would introduce a more complex loan
refund review process than applied in cases today. Under this bill, VA
employees would be required to analyze a Service member's pre-discharge
claims, pre-discharge disability examinations, pre-discharge
evidentiary reviews and eventual disability rating decisions to
determine the earliest possible date for purposes of a loan fee waiver.
Redirecting senior-level resources could have cascading impacts on
other mission-critical work, such as efforts to modernize technology
systems to improve the guaranteed home loan process for Veterans,
employees, lenders and other program participants.
As noted above, VA supports an improved experience for Service
members looking to use their home loan benefit prior to discharge.
Therefore, VA looks forward to working with this Committee to craft a
legislative solution that would not result in a complex, resource-
intensive refund process or, over time, a potentially untenable
financial position for VA's guaranteed home loan program.
Unfortunately, given the complexity of this issue, and the short
timeframe VA was given to provide its views and costing, we cannot, at
this time, provide specific legislative language that we would support.
Mandatory benefit loan subsidy costs are estimated to be $5.2
million in 2024, $31.7 million over five years, and $87.5 million over
10 years. Discretionary General Operating Expense costs are estimated
to be $144,000 in 2024, $715,000 over five years, and $1.5 million over
10 years.
Conclusion
This concludes my statement. We would be happy to answer any
questions you or other members of the Subcommittee may have.
______
Prepared Statement of Margarita Devlin
Introduction
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and distinguished Members
of the Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify at
today's legislative hearing.
The mission of the Department of Labor (DOL or Department),
Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS), is to prepare
America's veterans, service members, and military spouses for
meaningful careers, provide them with employment resources and
expertise, protect their employment rights, and promote their
employment opportunities. It is my honor to serve as Deputy Assistant
Secretary for Operations and Management of DOL VETS.
H.R. 5913, the Consolidating Veteran Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act of 2023
This bill would transfer the VETS agency from DOL to the Department
of Veterans Affairs (VA), and would likewise transfer the
administration of Jobs for Veterans State Grants \1\ (JVSG), the
Homeless Veterans' Reintegration Program \2\ (HVRP), the employment-
related portions of the Transition Assistance Program \3\ (TAP), and
DOL's Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act \4\
(USERRA) enforcement responsibilities, and other related
responsibilities and obligations provided under the authorizing
legislation for those programs.
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\1\ Authorized under 38 U.S.C. Chapter 41.
\2\ Authorized under 38 U.S.C. 2021, 2021A and 2023.
\3\ Authorized under 10 U.S.C. 1144.
\4\ Authorized under 38 U.S.C. Chapter 43.
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DOL strongly opposes this bill. DOL is the lead Federal Department
for employment, training, and worker protection programs, with
extensive resources and institutional expertise in those services,
which cannot be replicated elsewhere. With that in mind, VETS can best
accomplish its mission housed within the Department that oversees the
American workforce system. In fact, the current structure has enabled
VETS' programs to be highly successful, with positive performance
outcomes that support employment services for transitioning
servicemembers, veterans, and military spouses. There is no evidence
that moving VETS to VA would improve the efficiency or effectiveness of
our programs. On the contrary, it would be extremely disruptive to our
programs and the people we serve.
DOL is the Federal Lead for Employment, Training, and Worker Protection
For over 100 years, the charter mission of the DOL has been to
``foster, promote and develop the welfare of working people, to improve
their working conditions, and to enhance their opportunities for
profitable employment.'' DOL's Good Jobs Initiative promotes family
sustaining wages, jobs with benefits, safe and inclusive workplaces,
worker growth and empowerment. Following these guidelines, VETS
prepares veterans and military spouses for careers that they deserve
and promotes employers that recognize the value that veterans and
military spouses bring to the workplace. The Department's collective
resources and expertise are integrated with state workforce agencies
and local communities to meet the employment and training needs of
service members, veterans, and their families. By collaborating with
our DOL sister agencies, across our programs, VETS successfully serves
over 440,000 veterans, service members, and military spouses each year.
DOL's Employment and Training Administration (ETA) administers the
public workforce system, which includes nearly 2,300 American Job
Centers across the country. These one-stop locations offer a broad
range of career and wrap-around supportive services to the public, such
as job training programs, employment services, adult basic education
and literacy, vocational rehabilitation for individuals with
disabilities, Registered Apprenticeships, childcare, transportation
assistance, housing assistance, legal aid services, unemployment
compensation (including the Unemployment Compensation for ex-service
members (UCX) program), and other services. In most states, American
Job Centers also host eligibility determination services for the
Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), the Temporary
Assistance for Needy Families (TANF), and other partner programs.
The VETS-administered JVSG program provides funding for dedicated
staff who work in the American Job Centers to provide individualized
career and training-related services to veterans and eligible persons
with significant barriers to employment and to assist employers to fill
their workforce needs with job-seeking veterans. As part of TAP,
transitioning service members who are unable to meet employment-related
Career Readiness Standards are provided a ``warm handover'' to an
American Job Center, a person-to-person connection between the
transitioning service member and an American Job Center, which connects
them with services and follow-up resources as needed. Veterans and
their eligible spouses receive priority of service for all workforce
training programs funded in whole or in part by DOL, including the
comprehensive wrap-around services listed above, as established by the
Jobs for Veterans Act of 2002 (38 U.S.C. 4215).
VETS also strongly relies on the expertise of DOL staff employed
throughout the Department. DOL is one of the largest and most
experienced grant-making departments within the Federal government, and
our Grant Officers are a part of ETA's Office of Grants Management
(OGM). VETS also utilizes OGM to manage the grant application process
and staff for HVRP. DOL has specialized expertise in workforce
development, job placement, and employment programs for veterans and
non-veterans alike. We also have established relationships with
employers, workforce development agencies, and educational institutions
that are crucial for effective employment services. Moving these
functions to VA could disrupt these relationships and the institutional
knowledge that has been developed over years. VA also has no experience
providing grants to the public workforce system, and lacks the
expertise needed to properly monitor and collaborate with stakeholders
on those grants. Similarly, removing JVSG and TAP employment services
from DOL would create new and unnecessary administrative and logistical
barriers for the programs, which are currently an integrated part of
the public workforce system.
Our highly specialized USERRA compliance staff similarly work hand-
in-hand with staff from DOL's Office of the Solicitor (SOL). They have
a collective, extensive expertise in the nuances of USERRA law and a
broad range of other worker protection and employment laws that exists
nowhere else within the Federal government.
VETS also collaborates with several other agencies within DOL in
support of veterans' employment. For example, DOL's Office of
Disability Employment Policy (ODEP) focuses on disability policy and
employment services and has a long history of working with VETS and
with our military and civilian partners on issues affecting disabled
veterans.
DOL's Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs (OFCCP) is
responsible for administering provisions of the Vietnam Era Veterans'
Readjustment Assistance Act of 1974 (VEVRAA). This law prohibits
employment discrimination against protected veterans by covered Federal
contractors and subcontractors. VEVRAA also requires contractors and
their subcontractors to take affirmative action to employ these
veterans. As required by 38 U.S.C. 4212, covered Federal contractors
and subcontractors are required to report annually on their affirmative
action efforts in employing veterans. Working in close collaboration,
VETS and OFCCP developed a unique dedicated electronic filing mechanism
for receiving the VETS-4212 Reports from Federal contractors, which
cannot be removed or transferred as it is part of DOL's integrated IT
system.
DOL's Wage and Hour Division (WHD) enforces important leave
entitlements for veterans and their families through the Military
Family Leave provisions of the Family and Medical Leave Act (FMLA). The
Military Family Leave provisions were first added to the FMLA in 2008,
and revised in 2010, to provide protections specific to the needs of
military families.
DOL's Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) publishes monthly,
quarterly, and annual employment data on veterans and, each March,
publishes an annual supplemental report called the ``Employment
Situation of Veterans.'' These data points and reports, and our ongoing
consultation with the BLS subject-matter experts who produce them, are
critical to understanding the veteran employment situation. VETS works
with Veterans Service Organizations (VSOs), unions, the Advisory
Committee for Veteran Employment, Training and Employer Outreach, and
other external stakeholders to refine the metrics that BLS utilizes for
its surveys of the veteran population. In addition to BLS, the
Department's Chief Evaluation Office sponsors research on the
effectiveness and efficiency of veteran employment programs.
DOL's Women's Bureau (WB), the only agency of its kind in the
federal government, has a longstanding partnership with VETS to provide
tailored support to women veterans and military spouses who are women.
Approximately 92 percent of military spouses are women, and they have
an unemployment rate of 21 percent \5\ and a 31 percent underemployment
rate. Among many other collaborations, the Women's Bureau coordinated
with VETS to jointly convene a series of listening sessions across the
country to hear directly from the military spouse community and better
understand the employment challenges facing them. Following those
sessions, WB and VETS worked together to launch a dedicated online
portal for military spouses, featuring a range of employment resources
including information on transferring occupational licenses.
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\5\ https://download.militaryonesource.mil/12038/MOS/Reports/2021-
demographics-report.pdf
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VETS programs cannot properly function without all of the staff,
collaboration, resources, and other support provided by and situated
throughout DOL, which cannot be replicated at VA. And, if VETS is moved
to VA, then veterans will lose a significant voice within the public
workforce system, as there would no longer be an agency within DOL that
prioritizes and has the expertise needed to speak on behalf of this
community.
VETS Programs Have Highly Successful Performance
I have testified twice \6\ before this Subcommittee about the
successes of VETS administration of USERRA. USERRA prohibits
discrimination in employment based on an individual's prior service in
the uniformed services; current service in the uniformed services; or
intent to join the uniformed services. USERRA also guarantees an
employee returning from military service or training the right to be
reemployed at their former job (or as nearly comparable a job as
possible) with the same benefits. There were more than 2 million
service members eligible for USERRA protections at the end of July
2023.\7\ This sum included 766,069 members of the Reserve Components
(RC) that are comprised of Reserve and National Guard troops and
1,317,051 members of the Active Components of the U.S. Armed Forces,
including the Coast Guard.
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\6\ https://docs.house.gov/meetings/VR/VR10/20230309/115444/HHRG-
118-VR10-Wstate-RodriguezJ-20230309.pdf and https://docs.house.gov/
meetings/VR/VR10/20230614/116100/HHRG-118-VR10-Wstate-RodriguezJ-
20230614.pdf
\7\ Total number of U.S. Armed Forces and Selected Reserves for
July, 2023, reported by Department of Defense, Defense Manpower Data
Center, in Armed Forces Strength Figures (including Coast Guard) for
July 31, 2023, and Selected Reserves by Rank/Grade (including Coast
Guard) for July 31, 2023, accessible at https://dwp.dmdc.osd.mil/dwp/
app/dod-data-reports/workforce-reports
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
On average over the past three years, VETS has closed 943 USERRA
cases for investigation per year. When VETS investigators find a
violation of USERRA, the investigator works diligently with both the
claimant and the employer to resolve the case to the satisfaction of
both parties. Of cases in which VETS found a violation of USERRA in
fiscal year (FY) 2021, VETS resolved 87 percent of those cases, which
is the highest resolution rate in the history of the program. VETS does
not have a backlog of cases and resolves its cases in a timely fashion.
This success speaks to the high level of expertise of the Department's
SOL and VETS staff. VETS also conducts a robust public outreach
campaign to educate service members, employers, and others on their
rights and responsibilities under USERRA. In FY 2023, VETS conducted
over 1,327 compliance assistance events nationwide, informing employees
and employers alike of their rights and responsibilities under USERRA.
The relatively small number of investigations needed each year compared
to the large number of service members being protected provide strong
evidence that the overwhelming majority of employers voluntarily comply
with USERRA when they aware of the law's requirements, and that our
outreach and education efforts have been highlight successful.
VETS Deputy Assistant Secretary Margarita Devlin testified before
this Subcommittee \8\ about the successes of the VETS TAP employment
efforts. VETS has always been an integral member of the TAP interagency
partnership, being responsible for the majority of the core TAP
curriculum. The TAP interagency partners consist of the Departments of
Labor, Defense, Veterans Affairs, Homeland Security, and Education, as
well as the military service branches, the Small Business
Administration, and the Office of Personnel Management. During the
pandemic, VETS was able to pivot within a month to provide instructor-
led virtual workshops, making this transition faster than its TAP
interagency partners. VETS supported instructor-led DOL TAP workshops
for all military service branches across multiple platforms. This
speaks to a flexibility that has been a hallmark of VETS' contribution
to TAP. In FY 2022, service members and military spouses attended our
TAP employment workshops in record-breaking numbers. TAP employment
workshops provided instruction to 266,127 total participants,\9\ which
is an over 40 percent increase from the previous workshop record of
188,924 total participants in FY 2021. VETS workshops are highly rated
by attendees. The FY 2023 Transition Assistance Participant Assessment
results through the second quarter indicated that 97 percent of
participants would use what they learned in their own transition
planning, and 95 percent reported that our Employment Fundamentals of
Career Transition enhanced their confidence in transition planning.
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\8\ https://docs.house.gov/meetings/VR/VR10/20230517/115740/HHRG-
118-VR10-Wstate-DevlinM-20230517.pdf
\9\ Note that an individual service member may attend more than one
workshop. References to the total number of TAP workshop participants
do not track individual unique participants.
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VETS also has a number of innovative TAP pilot initiatives,
including the Employment Navigator and Partnership Pilot (ENPP), which
provides one-on-one career assistance to interested transitioning
service members, and their spouses, at select military installations
worldwide. ENPP represents a high-touch, customer-centric approach to
career transition assistance in which the Employment Navigators guide
clients through career exploration and planning. The Employment
Navigators provide direct connection to the program's 46 non-
governmental partners for continued assistance. These non-governmental
partners provide a wide variety of services that include placement
services, apprenticeship opportunities, career transition mentorship,
and networking opportunities, to name a few. Each of these partners has
a Memorandum of Understanding with VETS to ensure a responsive and
positive connection with each client referred. ENPP also provides
customers who need assistance with a ``warm handover'' to an American
Job Center, which connects them with services and follow-up resources
as needed. According to participant surveys, the ENPP has been a great
success. As of July 31, 2023, 96 percent of ENPP survey respondents
reported positive feelings after meeting with their Employment
Navigator and would recommend ENPP to a friend or colleague. And, 98
percent felt ENPP partners met or exceeded their employment-related
expectations.
In addition, the Off-Base Transition Training (OBTT) pilot program
offers TAP to veterans and the spouses of veterans at locations other
than active military installations, to help improve employment-related
outcomes in areas with high veteran unemployment. VETS State staff
leverage our relationships with local communities to establish
classroom locations and reach veterans in need of this service in the
pilot states. As of July 31, 2023, 6,170 veterans or spouses of
veterans were provided support through 3,304 virtual and in-person
workshops through OBTT.
HVRP has also been successful. In FY 2022, HVRP awarded more than
$57 million, funding 159 grantees. More than 61 percent of the over
16,900 veterans experiencing homelessness served in Program Year 2021
were employed when they completed the program with an average hourly
wage of $17.45 at placement. VETS provided grant funding and services
to more than 2,100 additional veterans experiencing homelessness from
Program Year 2020 to 2021.
Success stories like that of U.S. Marine Corps veteran Chuck Ondo
are not uncommon. Ondo, a former State trooper, lost his career to a
substance abuse disorder (SUD). After becoming homeless, Ondo enrolled
in VETS' HVRP. HVRP helped him obtain his cosmetology license,
purchased a set of clippers for him, helped him prepare his resume, and
performed mock interviews. Ondo was soon hired as a Barber/Stylist at
$15 per hour plus commissions and bonuses. Since then, Ondo has opened
up his own shop and freely shares his story in hopes of inspiring
others. He even helped his church create a support group for veterans
and consults with state and local law enforcement agencies about how to
effectively combat SUD. This is the power of the Homeless Veterans'
Reintegration Program.
As noted above, JVSG is a critical and integrated component of the
public workforce system. In Program Year 2022, nearly 43,000 veterans
worked with JVSG staff, and each of them faced significant barriers to
employment, such as the 19,000 who identified being low income as one
of their barriers. Nearly 475 Local Veterans' Employment Representative
(LVER) specialists served almost 147,000 veterans by providing employer
outreach activities. Nearly 1,025 Disabled Veterans' Outreach Program
(DVOP) specialists served over 43,500 veterans with significant
barriers to employment (43,500 veterans served during FY 2022 was a
subset of the 147,000). And our most recent data shows that over three
quarters of states have met or exceeded their goals for the number of
participants served, participants employed, and post-program wages
earned.
All newly hired DVOP specialists and LVER staff are required to
satisfactorily complete expert training delivered by the VETS-
administered National Veterans' Training Institute (NVTI) \10\ within
18 months after the date of employment. This helps ensure the quality
and consistency of service delivery across the country. VETS has worked
closely with DOL's ODEP to include training components in the NVTI
curriculum to ensure that employment and accommodations for veterans
with disabilities are being properly provided.
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\10\ https://www.nvti.org/
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Moving VETS to VA Would Greatly Disrupt VETS Services
If the ``Consolidating Veteran Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act of 2023'' were enacted, it would cause tremendous and
costly disruption to our programs and people we serve. The veteran
unemployment rate continues to be historically low, at just 3.6 percent
as of August 2023.\11\ In addition, the data show that all VETS
employment and compliance programs are achieving historically high
performance outcomes, and those outcomes are a direct result of the
knowledge and hard work of DOL employees, and of the processes, IT
systems, and relationships that we've built within the Department.
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\11\ https://www.dol.gov/agencies/vets/latest-numbers
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But if this legislation were enacted, the focus and time of DOL
leaders and staff, and the resources of our agency, would immediately
shift away from our successful institution and toward the herculean
task of implementing the transition to VA. Existing IT systems would
need to go through costly studies and transfers to new systems at VA.
VETS leadership would be tasked with studying and planning how to
implement the transfer, developing and implementing an elaborate
Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with VA to accomplish it, and
addressing all of the other numerous and costly logistical
complications that would accompany the actual transfer of activities.
Every staff member would need to be re-trained to use VA's internal
systems and procedures. And every State and HVRP grantee would likewise
need to go through a similar process, as they re-establish receipt and
compliance of their grants through VA. I do not see how any of this
will improve the performance of our programs or help our Nation's
service members, veterans, and military spouses.
Other work conducted by VETS would also be disrupted. For example,
we have robust outreach and engagement activities that are helping to
connect service members and veterans to employment and training
opportunities. VETS has hosted employer, industry sector, and union
round tables that highlighted the value of in-service credentials and
their importance to civilian employers, and shared DOL resources that
help facilitate civilian employment. In FY 2023, VETS' Veteran
Employment Outreach program conducted over 2,000 documented employer
engagement activities in support of employers to find, hire, and retain
veterans. We have also partnered with ETA and the Department of Defense
to develop pathways to employment for service members who have
completed, or partially completed, the United Services Military
Apprenticeship Program (USMAP). We have supported industry sector
initiatives to facilitate public-private partnerships that are helping
to establish career pathways into high demand careers in trucking,
cybersecurity manufacturing, clean energy, defense industrial base, and
healthcare industries. VETS has also supported this effort by enhancing
its TAP curriculum, creating a new Military Lifecycle apprenticeship
training and an Occupational Licensing Guide to help service members
and veterans leverage the credentials and licenses earned while in-
service.
I'd also like to note that Congress has recently moved functions
out of the VA to more specialized agencies to improve the efficiency
and effectiveness of programs. On January 1, 2021, Congress passed the
William H. (Mac) Thornberry National Defense Authorization Act for
Fiscal Year 2021 (Public Law 116-283). Section 862 of that law directed
the Small Business Administration (SBA) to create a governmentwide
certification program for Service Disabled Veteran Owned Small
Businesses. SBA will also conduct certifications for Veteran Owned
Small Businesses for VA's use. I strongly believe we should continue to
build efficiencies in the government by continuing to align resources
and staff by functionality instead of by theme.
Further, our programs have been studied by the Government
Accountability Office (GAO), DOL's Office of the Inspector General
(OIG), and our Chief Evaluation Office. I am not aware of any report or
other published evidence that suggests moving VETS or our programs to
VA would improve the performance of any of our programs.
Our record of performance speaks for itself. Our achievements are
in large part due to our organizational alignment within DOL, and our
close partnerships with VA, the Department of Defense, and others.
Changes to this approach could have devastating consequences.
VETS Position on Other Legislation before the Subcommittee
VETS is supportive of the concept of H.R. 3816, the ``Veterans'
Entry to Apprenticeship Act,'' which is intended ``to ensure that
veterans may attend pre-apprenticeship programs using certain
educational assistance provided by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs,''
and welcomes the opportunity to provide technical assistance should
this bill move forward.
On all other bills being considered by the Subcommittee today, VETS
defers to VA.
Conclusion
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, distinguished members of
the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to highlight the
important work VETS is doing in support of those who have served our
country, and how important it is that VETS remain part of DOL. I am
committed to working with you and your dedicated staff in any way that
I can to improve our programs.
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
______
Prepared Statement of Kristina Keenan
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and members of the
subcommittee, on behalf of the men and women of the Veterans of Foreign
Wars of the United States (VFW) and its Auxiliary, thank you for the
opportunity to provide our remarks on legislation pending before this
subcommittee.
H.R. 522, Deliver for Veterans Act
The VFW supports this proposal to pay the total expense price for
purchasing and shipping a vehicle or other conveyance adapted for
operation by disabled individuals who are eligible to receive such
benefits. With the recent passage of the Advancing Uniform
Transportation Opportunities (AUTO) for Veterans Act, the ability for
veterans in need of adaptive services to have uninterrupted
independence through safe driving without paying astronomical amounts
is now possible. However, there is more work to be done for veterans in
remote areas such as Guam. In recent years, the Department of Veteran
Affairs (VA) responded to some of the needs that veterans in Guam were
experiencing by standing up a local new amputee clinic that provides
prosthetic care. The Deliver for Veterans Act would continue this work
by amending the existing law to include a provision that would
eliminate the undue financial burden, which is estimated to be
thousands of dollars, for veterans not located in the vicinity where
vehicles can be manufactured without a shipping requirement. The United
States did not hesitate to pay the total expenses when purchasing or
shipping the vehicles that these veterans needed to operate in battle,
and we should not hesitate to pay the same expenses for remotely
located veterans to receive the vehicles that are needed for them to
operate independently after service.
H.R. 2830, Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act of 2023
The VFW supports this proposal to revise the rules for approval by
the Secretary of Veterans Affairs of commercial driver license (CDL)
education programs. Our country faces supply chain issues and one of
the reasons is a lack of commercial transport drivers. Many CDL
programs are offered at for-profit institutions that require different
approval requirements for new locations and are identified as
``branches.'' Not-for-profit schools are allowed to open new campuses
and receive approval to utilize VA education benefits as soon as a new
location opens. For-profit schools that open new branches have
different approval requirements, one of which is a wait time of up to
two years for students to utilize VA benefits. These same student
veterans are able to immediately use these benefits for the same
program at the main institution.
H.R. 3601, Student Veteran Work Study Modernization Act
The VFW supports this proposal, which would allow students using VA
education benefits at a rate of at least half-time basis to receive
allowances for participating in work-study programs. This proposal
represents a need brought to the forefront by one of our own VFW-SVA
legislative fellows earlier this year. Many student veterans are only
able to attend at a half-time rate as they pursue a degree along with
managing other responsibilities. They may also benefit from VA work-
study opportunities and have a desire to give back to the veteran
community through work associated with VA.
H.R. 3722, Daniel J. Harvey, Jr. and Adam Lambert Improving
Servicemember Transition to Reduce Veteran Suicide Act and the
Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to it
Service member and veteran suicide prevention continues to be a top
priority for the VFW. Recent research indicates that suicide risk
increases after transition from the military. Additional research shows
that risk is also heightened in individuals with mental health
diagnoses. Accordingly, it is appropriate to educate and support
transitioning service members with connections and resources to ensure
risk factors are identified and care is given. The VFW supports this
legislation that would create a five-year pilot program to educate
transitioning service members on reintegrating into civilian life and
factors related to suicide risk. This pilot program would also
facilitate a warm handoff to VA, which would include an initial
appointment, a health assessment, and a tailored treatment plan that
addresses medical conditions associated with heightened suicide risk.
We do recommend that Congress ensures the provisions of this
legislation occur in a private setting. This would enable transitioning
service members to more thoroughly understand the conditions associated
with heightened suicide risk, as they may not have pre-existing
diagnoses. This type of setting would also ensure a safe, confidential
environment to discuss personal, service-related events that could lead
to the conditions outlined in this subsection. Furthermore, the VFW
also suggests that the Department of Defense ensures appropriate
processes and resources are in place to accommodate medical record
requests and submissions to VA.
H.R. 3738, To amend title 38, United States Code, to establish in the
Department of Veterans Affairs the Veterans Economic Opportunity and
Transition Administration, and for other purposes
The VFW supports this proposal to establish the Veterans Economic
Opportunity and Transition Administration in the Department of Veterans
Affairs. VA is comprised of three administrations--the National
Cemetery Administration (NCA), Veterans Health Administration, and
Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA). VBA oversees not only
compensation and pension, but also the GI Bill, vocational
rehabilitation, housing and business loans, and the broadly defined
transition assistance program, which is shared with the Departments of
Labor, Defense, and Homeland Security.
The VFW believes our Nation's focus on the economic opportunities
of our veterans must be permanent. In reality, not all veterans seek VA
health care when they are discharged, they do not need assistance from
the NCA, and they do not all seek disability compensation. However, the
vast majority are looking for gainful employment and/or education.
Congress should recognize the value of these programs by separating
them into their own administration focused solely on their utilization
and growth.
The VFW has long proposed that Congress creates a fourth
administration under VA with its own undersecretary whose sole
responsibility is the economic opportunity programs. This legislation
would permit the new Secretary of Veterans Economic Opportunity and
Transition Administration to refocus resources, provide a champion for
these programs, and create that central point of contact for Veterans
Service Organizations and Congress. This would ensure that the GI Bill,
Veteran Readiness and Employment, home loan, and other benefits
centered on economic opportunity receive the attention they deserve.
H.R. 3816, Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
The VFW supports this proposal to ensure that veterans may attend
pre-apprenticeship programs using certain educational assistance
provided by VA. Quality pre-apprenticeship programs can play a valuable
role in providing work-based learning to help individuals prepare for
an entry-level Registered Apprenticeship Program (RAP). While pre-
apprenticeship programs have varied designs and approaches, the
Department of Labor has outlined the elements that can place an
individual on the potential career pathway to employability though a
RAP. There has been a sixty-four percent growth in new apprentices in
the past ten years and a ninety percent retention rate of apprentices
by their employers after completing an apprenticeship. Providing pre-
apprenticeship usage for VA benefits would allow veterans to obtain the
skills they need to succeed while earning the wages they need to build
financial security.
H.R. 5190, Military Family Protection from Debt Act
The VFW supports this legislation to expand certain protections to
dependents of members of the armed forces. Financial stressors can
inhibit a service members' ability to effectively focus on the mission
while serving. Financial stressors affecting their families can also
contribute to unnecessary distractions. This proposal would expand
protections for dependents of service members so financial difficulties
do not negatively affect service members while they are performing
their duties.
H.R. XXXX, Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act
The VFW supports this proposal to expand the monthly housing
stipend for student veterans who take summer courses online to receive
the national monthly amount. Currently, the monthly housing allowance
rates for online courses are half of the national average, which is
simply not enough for many student veterans. If they take courses
during the summer, even online, they should not experience a decrease
in their housing benefit that could cause them financial hardship
before they have completed a degree program.
While this is a step in the right direction, the VFW would like for
student veterans to receive at least the full national average rate for
housing allowance even if they are enrolled in a degree program that is
conducted online for some or all semesters. Online education has
adapted and grown since the COVID-19 pandemic, much like working from
home has changed the work model around the country. Student veterans
continue to require housing assistance in order to successfully pursue
higher education, even when enrolled in online programs.
H.R. XXXX, To amend title 38, United States Code, to improve the
processes to approve programs of education for purposes of the
educational assistance programs of the Department of Veterans Affairs,
and for other purposes
The VFW supports this proposal to modify the requirement for
schools to provide personalized information about costs and financial
assistance. The new language ``to the maximum extent practicable''
would give schools more flexibility without holding them back from
receiving VA education funding. The legislation would also create a
single VA website for school certifying officials to find current
training. This would ensure that up-to-date training is always
available even if schools experience staff turnover, or updates sent
through email have been lost.
These are both legislative priorities for the VFW as schools have
communicated that these changes would help facilitate their efforts to
support their student veterans. We suggest adding to Section 1(a) that
all policy and guidance updates be included on the VA website for
school officials, and that VA be required to update that information in
a timely manner as delays in keeping this information current could
cause problems.
H.R. XXXX, Consolidating Veteran Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act of 2023
Although the VFW understands the goals of this legislation, our
organization cannot support moving Veterans Employment and Training
Service (VETS) from the Department of Labor to the Department of
Veterans Affairs at this time. When the committee first introduced this
concept more than a decade ago, VETS was in turmoil. However, since the
VOW to Hire Heroes Act of 2011 (P.L. 112-56), VETS has evolved. Today,
VETS successfully leverages business across the Department of Labor to
execute its mission, to include the Employment and Training
Administration, Office of Federal Contract Compliance, and Office of
Disability Employment Policy, among others. Though this legislation
seeks to maintain these relationships, the VFW keenly understands that
substantive interagency collaboration can be a challenge. Moreover,
this proposal would likely present substantial challenges to state
workforce agencies that would now report programs to separate entities
under the purview of separate federal agencies with separate missions.
Should Congress successfully compel VA to establish its fourth
administration, the VFW may revisit this concept once this
administration is viable and highly functioning.
H.R. XXXX, To amend title 38, United States Code, to modify the
requirements of the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship
The VFW supports amending the specific credit hours language for
the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship, and including the ability to
utilize this benefit for graduate degrees in STEM fields. The VFW
supported the extension of entitlements for STEM students in the
Forever GI Bill because of the importance of these degrees. If there
are specific requirements that are a barrier for students to utilize
this extension, then they should be removed. Education for veterans is
a top priority for the VFW, and we especially want to see veterans
succeed in high-demand fields.
H.R. XXXX, To amend title 38, United States Code, to waive the fee for
a housing loan guaranteed by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs for a
veteran with a service-connected disability who applied for such loan
before receiving a disability rating from the Secretary
The VFW supports this proposal that would specifically benefit
active duty service members who utilize the VA Home Loan Guarantee
program prior to receiving a disability rating from VA. Current housing
market volatility and uncertainty can create an environment for service
members where they cannot wait until VA finishes processing their
disability claims before capitalizing on the opportunity to purchase a
home. Some service members may opt to finalize purchasing a home when
the right opportunity arises rather than waiting months to receive a VA
disability rating.
This proposal would ensure that service members who have conducted
a pre-discharge examination can still receive the funding fee back from
VA if they receive a ratings decision after finalizing the purchase of
a home. We support the intent of this change but believe the language
should be changed to ``effective date'' instead of date of examination.
This would ensure that service members retain the earliest effective
date for eligibility. The process for examinations happens after a
notice of intent is filed, so changing this language to effective date
would provide service members with an earlier timeframe.
The VFW would like to ensure that if this proposal becomes law,
veterans have the flexibility to choose what is in their best financial
interest. We would hope the options to pay down the principle of the
mortgage or to receive the reimbursement from VA would both be
available.
H.R. XXXX, Transparency for Student Veterans Act of 2023
The VFW supports the intent of this draft proposal to require VA to
report on outcomes of student veterans who have used education
benefits. However, we would like clarification that providing data
would not overly burden the schools. Additionally, the memorandum of
understanding with the Department of Education should be mandatory and
established before this reporting is required by VA. This measure would
ensure appropriate coordination of efforts. Currently, VA cannot track
accurate graduation rates of student veterans. This can only be
accomplished by requiring the Department of Education to identify and
track student veteran progress and completion in post-secondary
education. This memorandum of understanding partnership would be key to
these metrics reporting efforts.
Chairman Van Orden, this concludes my testimony. Again, the VFW
thanks you and Ranking Member Levin for the opportunity to testify on
these important issues before this subcommittee. I am prepared to take
any questions you or the subcommittee members may have.
Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives
Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives, the VFW
has not received any federal grants in Fiscal Year 2023, nor has it
received any federal grants in the two previous Fiscal Years.
The VFW has not received payments or contracts from any foreign
governments in the current year or preceding two calendar years.
______
Prepared Statement of Marquis Barefield
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and Members of the
Subcommittee:
DAV (Disabled American Veterans) has a mission that includes the
principle that this Nation's first duty to veterans is the
rehabilitation and welfare of its wartime disabled. This principle
envisions vocational rehabilitation and/or education to assist these
veterans to prepare for and obtain gainful employment, enhanced
opportunities for employment, job placement and self-employment, so
that the full array of talents and abilities of disabled veterans are
used productively and to their greatest levels.
We are a resolution-based organization, which means we can support
legislation if we have a resolution that is adopted by our membership
body at our annual national convention. We are pleased to provide our
views on the bills impacting service-disabled veterans, their families
and the programs administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs
(VA) that are under consideration by the Subcommittee.
H.R. 522, the Deliver for Veterans Act
The Deliver for Veterans Act would include the shipping cost to
deliver a vehicle to a veteran that has entitlement to the VA Adaptive
Vehicle Grant.
Currently, a veteran can only spend funds from the Adaptive Vehicle
Grant on the purchase of a vehicle excluding the shipping costs. This
legislation would correct this problem by allowing a veteran to have
their vehicle shipped to them without having to pay an additional
charge.
DAV strongly supports H.R. 522, the Deliver for Veterans Act in
accordance with DAV Resolution No. 032. We believe that veterans should
never have to cover costs that are related to their earned VA benefits.
H.R. 2830, the Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act of
2023
The Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License (CDL) Act would
approve a commercial driver education program at a branch of an
institution of higher education if the program offered at the branch by
the educational institution is appropriately licensed and uses the same
curriculum that is offered at the main campus of the institution and is
approved by a state agency.
H.R. 2830 would ensure CDL schools that offer courses at new
branches do not have to wait two years if the primary institution has
been approved by the VA and state approving agencies to receive GI bill
benefits. It is estimated that 8,400 commercial driving programs have
been approved for use by eligible veterans under the GI bill.
This bipartisan legislation will ease the pathway for veterans to
acquire a commercial driving license, helping address the trucking
shortage, employ veterans, and strengthen our supply chains. In
accordance with DAV Resolution No. 187, we fully support the Veterans
Improvement Commercial Driver License Act as it would provide unique
opportunities for service-disabled veterans to obtain a CDL and
overcome their employment barriers.
H.R. 3601, the Student Veteran Work Study Modernization Act
The Student Veteran Work Study Modernization Act would require VA
to implement a five-year pilot program to expand eligibility for the
work-study allowance program to individuals who are pursuing programs
of rehabilitation, education, or training at a rate equal to at least
half of that required of a full-time student.
The VA Work Study program allows veterans to earn money while
enrolled in an institution of higher education, vocational, or
professional program. Participants gain paid work experience while
furthering their education. Currently, the program limits the types of
positions a student veteran can hold and does not permit payment at
local minimum wage rates. The program also requires enrollment on at
least a three-quarter-time basis, excluding half-time enrollees.
Pursuing higher education and gaining meaningful employment are two
of the most common post-military endeavors for veterans as they
transition to civilian life, and the VA's work-study program has been
an invaluable tool in accomplishing both goals for many student
veterans. As the VA modernizes and digitizes numerous other benefits,
it's imperative that the department provides greater transparency to
Congress about the program's successes while expanding its eligibility
to student veterans who are pursuing academic programs on at least a
half-time basis.
In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 183, we proudly support the
Student Veteran Work Study Modernization Act. The VA work-study program
better positions student veterans for future employment and H.R. 3601
will provide this benefit to more service-disabled veterans, which will
result in more victories for veterans.
H.R. 3722, the Daniel J. Harvey, Jr. and Adam Lambert Improving
Servicemember Transition to Reduce Veteran Suicide and the Amendment in
the Nature of a Substitute to it
H.R. 3722 would require the Department of Defense (DoD) and VA to
jointly carry out a five-year pilot program to assess the feasibility
and advisability of providing certain services and a module comprised
of specified elements as part of the pre-separation transition process
for members of the Armed Forces for the purpose of reducing the
incidence of suicide among veterans. DAV supported this bill in its
original form.
The Amendment in the Nature of a Substitute to H.R. 3722 states
that under the DoD Transition Assistance Program (TAP) program mental
health services will be available for service members with certain
mental health markers, to include post-traumatic stress disorder, risk
of suicide, treatment options for those with substance-use disorders
and potential stressors associated with leaving active military
service. Under the VA Solid Start Program the amendment would assist
eligible veterans to enroll in the program and educate them on mental
health and counseling services available through the Veterans Health
Administration. A joint report from DoD and VA is due to the committees
on information gathered from these programs.
The DoD TAP program provides information and training to ensure
service members leaving active duty are prepared for their next step in
life, whether pursuing additional education, finding employment in the
public or private sector, or starting their own business.
The VA portion of TAP is a one-day, in-person course called VA
Benefits and Services. Led by VA Benefits Advisors, the course helps
veterans understand how to navigate VA and the benefits and services
they have earned through their military career. The course offers
interactive exercises, real examples, and covers topics important to
veterans like family support, disability compensation, education, and
health care benefits.
H.R. 3722 would add or improve mental health services to both sides
of the transition process to ensure that service members and veterans
are well aware of the mental health services that are available to them
and their families.
We strongly supports H.R. 3722 and the Amendment in the Nature of a
Substitute to it in accordance with DAV Resolution Nos. 059 and 160,
which support legislation to improve and reform TAP programs, to
include mental health services for our transitioning service members,
veterans and their families.
H.R. 3738, to establish in the Department of Veterans Affairs the
Veterans Economic Opportunity and Transition Administration
H.R. 3738 would establish the Veterans Economic Opportunity and
Transition Administration. This administration would have a projected
start date of October 1, 2024, be responsible for six departments
within the VA and provide veterans, their dependents and survivors
assistance with related economic opportunities. The bill requires an
annual report during the fiscal year to include information on the
number of claims received and denied, as well as other information.
The Under Secretary for this administration will be appointed by
the President. Once a vacancy happens or is anticipated, a commission
will be established to recommend individuals to the President. The
commission will be comprised of 10 individuals from various areas
within the VA, to include the Deputy Secretary of the VA.
No later than six months after the passage of this Act, the VA
Secretary must submit a report on the progress of establishing the new
Administration and the transition of the provision of services to
veterans. The VA Secretary would be required to certify that the
transition of the provision of services to the Administration will not
negatively affect services to veterans and that such services are ready
to be transferred. Certification can happen no earlier than April 1,
2024 and no later than September 1, 2024. If certification cannot be
administered during the required time period, the Secretary would be
required to furnish a report on the reasons why the certification was
not achieved and estimate a timeframe on when it can be completed.
Establishing a fourth administration within the VA dedicated to
creating economic opportunities for veterans would increase the
visibility and accountability of all veterans education and employment-
related programs. For example, as we highlighted in our testimony
before this Subcommittee on September 15, 2022, the Veterans Readiness
and Employment Program started working on an electronic case management
system for vocational rehabilitation counselors however, after nine
years, three failed attempts for a digital platform and over $20
million spent, Veteran Readiness & Employment (VR&E) still does not
have a digital case management system.
DAV believes that the failures of the VR&E case management system
is indicative of a lack of focus, direction, as well as a constant
change of administrations. This is one of many examples of why we
believe VA needs a fourth administration.
Based on DAV Resolution No. 405, we recommend Congress separate
from the Veterans Benefits Administration all programs related to
economic opportunity and create a new administration that should be
appropriately funded and administered by an Under Secretary for
Economic Opportunity.
H.R. 3816, the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act
The Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act would make pre-
apprenticeship programs available to eligible veterans and dependents
who are using VA educational programs, such as the Post 9/11 G.I. Bill
and Dependents Educational Assistance (DEA) Program also referenced as
Chapter 35 benefits.
H.R. 3816 would allow for a pre-apprenticeship program to be
covered if the curriculum is approved by a sponsor that can certify to
the VA that the program will prepare an individual with skills and
competencies needed to enroll in a registered apprenticeship program.
Additionally, it grants a veteran eligibility for a specified amount of
housing assistance if not paid as part of a pre-apprenticeship program.
Transitioning from service to civilian life provides a number of
challenges for veterans and their families. If they are able to better
prepare for an apprenticeship program success is more likely. We are
pleased that that legislation includes DEA for family members however,
we note that it does not include VR&E. Although VR&E does include
apprenticeship programs, it does not provide for pre-apprenticeship
programs therefore, we recommend that a provision for VR&E be added, as
service-disabled veterans face many barriers due to disabilities
incurred during military service.
In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 187, we fully support H.R.
3816, the Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act and request that the
Subcommittee consider our recommendation noted above for inclusion of
VR&E to ensure parity for all veterans utilizing these VA programs.
H.R. 5190, the Military Family Protection from Debt Act
The Military Protection from Debt Act would amend the
Servicemembers Civil Relief Act to extend the protections for others
than active military service.
The legislation would reduce interest rates on pre-service loans
for the families of Reserve and Guard service members serving on active
duty and ease financial burdens while their service member is deployed.
Interest rates are already capped at 6 percent for service members
during their deployment--H.R. 5190 would provide parity by expanding
the same protections to military family members.
While we do not have a resolution to support this legislation, we
would not oppose its passage.
H.R. 5785, to modify the requirements of the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM
Scholarship
The Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship allows eligible veterans
using the Post-9/11 GI Bill or dependents using the Fry Scholarship to
get added benefits. This scholarship provides up to nine months (or
$30,000) of benefits for training in high-demand fields.
Currently, an eligible student veteran would have to be pursuing a
post-secondary degree, dual degree or an undergraduate degree in
certain fields of study before consideration can be given for this
scholarship. Additionally, a student veteran would have to have 60
semester or 90 quarter hours to be eligible for the scholarship.
The modification to the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship would
broaden the entitlement to eligibility for and decrease the number of
semester or quarter hours required to become eligible for the
scholarship. If implemented, the bill would change those requirements
to allow graduate students or those pursuing a graduate degree program
eligibility for the scholarship. It would also lower the semester and
quarter hours requirements to 45 semester hours or 67.5 quarter hours.
We support the modification to the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM
Scholarship program, based on DAV Resolution No. 187. We need to ensure
that student veterans have the ability to fully access their earned
educational benefits while removing barriers that could derail their
continued education.
Draft bill, the Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act
The Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act would increase
the monthly housing stipend for student veterans that pursue their
education through distance learning for the summer quarter or semester.
The rate of allowance would be equal to the amount paid to other
student veterans based on a standard formula. The effective date for
this housing allowance would be August 1, 2024.
Additionally, this legislation would positively impact rural and
highly rural student veterans by providing them the ability to continue
their education with an institution of higher learning that may be out
of their normal commuting area.
We are pleased to support this draft bill--the Expanding Access for
Online Veteran Students Act, based on DAV Resolution No. 187. We need
to ensure that student veterans have the ability to fully access their
earned educational benefits while removing barriers that could derail
their continued education. This legislation would help to provide them
the means to reach their full potential without prohibitions.
Draft bill, to improve the processes to approve programs of education
for purposes of the educational assistance programs of the Department
of Veterans Affairs
This draft legislation would require that student veterans are
provided with a form that includes significant information about the
cost of the course and other relevant information. The student would be
able to compare the course with other similar courses offered at other
schools to determine which aid package would be to their advantage.
This legislation would also require the VA to establish and update a
website to be used as the central location for training information for
VA School Certifying Officials (SCO).
A SCO is an employee of an educational institution with the primary
responsibility for certifying veteran enrollment at the educational
institution. SCOs at educational institutions normally have at least 20
or more enrolled student veterans using educational assistance. They
are required to complete training prior to being authorized to certify
enrollments to VA. This legislation would create a centralized location
for SCOs to find the most up-to-date training information.
Currently, student veterans are not provided enough information to
make good decisions on what courses to take and what school offers the
better aid package for them. This bill would provide students with more
information to make a better-informed decision about where and how to
use their educational benefits.
In accordance with DAV Resolution No. 187, DAV strongly supports
this legislation, which will remove barriers and streamline the
education process for service-disabled veterans.
Draft bill, the Transparency for Student Veterans Act
The Transparency for Student Veterans Act would provide student
veterans with additional information about programs of education
leading to a certificate or professional license at a particular
institution of higher learning. The bill would also require tracking of
certain student veteran information, to include how many have re-
enrolled after the first year, the number of them that have completed
their degrees or received a certificate or professional license. It
would also track the time period in which it took student veterans to
finish their program of study and the annual salaries they received
once their programs have been completed.
Additionally, this legislation would require the VA Secretary to
enter into a memorandum of understanding with the Secretary of
Education and the leaders of other relevant federal agencies to gather
information on the outcomes of the student veterans who use the
programs of educational assistance at institutions of higher learning.
Currently, student veterans do not have all of the information they
need to make informed decisions about their options for educational
programs at their institutions of higher learning. This bill would
provide student veterans with key information to help them determine if
they want to continue their educational program at a particular school.
We support this draft legislation--the Transparency for Student
Veterans Act, based on DAV Resolution Nos. 070 and 187. VA systems need
to be upgraded and improved to help facilitate the flow of information
to student veterans and their dependents, especially those receiving
educational assistance from the VA. There is a need for VA to share
vital information for student veterans so they can use their earned
educational benefits to their fullest extent.
Draft bill, the Consolidating Veteran Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act of 2023
The Consolidating Veteran Employment Services for Improved
Performance Act would transfer functions performed by the Department of
Labor (DOL) to the VA. This would apply to the following programs,
effective October 1, 2025:
Job counseling, training, and placement services for
veterans under chapter 41 of title 38, United States Code;
Federal Government employment services by the Secretary
of Labor under section 4214 of title 38, United States Code;
Administration of employment and reemployment rights of
members of the uniformed services under chapter 43 of title 38, United
States Code;
Homeless veterans reintegration programs under chapter 20
of title 38, United States Code; and
Employment and veterans benefits training under the
Transition Assistance Program under section 1144 of title 10, United 26
States Code.
A new Deputy Under Secretary for Veterans' Employment and Training
would be established within VA to oversee these functions, along with
any other employment, unemployment, and training programs affecting
veterans.
Additionally, this would consolidate the current positions of Local
Veterans' Employment Representative (LVER) and Disabled Veterans
Outreach Program (DVOP) Specialist into a new position called Veterans
Employment Specialist. Current LVERs and DVOPs, who are employed
directly by states, would be retained and reclassified to these new
positions.
DAV does not have a resolution on this specific issue, and takes no
formal position on this draft bill.
Draft bill, to waive the fee for a housing loan guaranteed by the
Secretary of Veterans Affairs for a veteran with a service-connected
disability who applied for such loan before receiving a disability
rating from the Secretary
This draft legislation would grant a veteran a refund of their
housing loan fee if the veteran was awarded disability compensation
prior to the date of their loan application.
The VA funding fee is a one-time payment that the veteran, service
member, or survivor pays on a VA-backed or VA direct home loan. This
fee helps to lower the cost of the loan for U.S. taxpayers because the
VA home loan program doesn't require down payments or monthly mortgage
insurance.
A veteran would not have to pay the VA funding fee if they are in
receipt of VA compensation for a service-connected disability. But if a
veteran applied for a VA home loan prior to receiving their award of
benefits from the VA, then they may be eligible for a refund of the VA
funding fee if they are later awarded VA compensation for a service-
connected disability. The effective date of their VA compensation must
be retroactive to before the date of the loan closing.
DAV does not have a specific resolution that would allow our
support for this legislation, but we understand the importance of this
benefit for potential service-disabled veterans and their families and
would not oppose passage of this legislation.
Mr. Chairman, this concludes my testimony on behalf of DAV. I am
happy to answer any questions you or members of the Subcommittee may
have.
______
Clarifying Statement of Marquis Barefield
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and Members of the
Subcommittee: Please consider this as my statement to clarify our
testimony at the November 2, 2023, subcommittee legislative hearing.
During our discussion on H.R. 3738, we stated that there were three
failed attempts to create an electronic case management system for
Vocational Rehabilitation Counselors (VRCs) by Veteran Readiness &
Employment (VR&E).
The first failed attempt started in 2015 and ended in 2018. At the
House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity hearing of
May 17, 2018, VR&E acknowledged that in 2015, they started working on
an electronic case management system for VRCs. It was confirmed that
after three years and $12 million, they did not have a viable operating
electronic case management system.
At the House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
hearing of June 4, 2019, in VA's written testimony, they indicated the
failure of the first attempt at an electronic case management system
and their intentions of moving forward with Software for Service and
indicated it would be awarded by the end of FY 2019.
Subsequently, VR&E leadership indicated that the second effort for
a case management system, the Software for Service contract was not
continued. It was determined that there were too many delays and a lack
of confidence that this system was correctly and timely processing
payments to schools and to veterans. Additionally, they stood up a VA
internal team to address the actual processes and requirements of a new
system. They spent eight months evaluating what happened and what went
wrong with the Software for Service system and engaged the MITRE
Corporation for their review.
At the House Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity
hearing of September 15, 2022, VR&E acknowledged the failure of the
second attempt and in 2021 they started developing the Readiness &
Employment System (RES), the third attempt of an electronic case
management system.
In April of this year, GovCIO was awarded a 10-year $141 million
contract to develop and create RES, the much-needed electronic case
management system for VR&E counselors.
There have been two failed attempts to create an electronic case
management system for VR&E. The third attempt has been underway since
2021, the contract has been awarded and development has begun.
To clarify our previous testimony, nearly nine years later, over
$20 million spent on two failed attempts and a third attempt in
progress that will cost an additional $140 million, VR&E still does not
have an electronic case management system.
We thank you for the opportunity to clarify our previous testimony.
______
Prepared Statement of Tammy Barlet
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of Joseph Wescott
Introduction
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin and members of the
Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity, I am pleased to appear before you
today on behalf of the fifty-two-member State agencies of the National
Association of State Approving Agencies (NASAA). I appreciate the
opportunity to provide comments to this committee on legislation
pertaining to veterans' education and training and the GI Bill. I am
accompanied today by NASAA President Frank Myers and Vice President
Rebecca Ryan.
Role of the State Approving Agencies: Past and Present
State Approving Agencies (SAAs) play a critical role in the
administration of GI Bill benefits. Shortly after passage of the
Servicemen's Readjustment Act of 1944, or the GI Bill of Rights,
Congress, recognizing it was the responsibility of the states within
our federal system of government to oversee the education of its
citizens, required that each State establish a ``State Approving
Agency.'' In response, the governor of each state designated a state
bureau or department as the SAA. The SAA was to be supported through
reimbursement of its expenses by the US Department of Veterans Affairs
(VA). Thus evolved a truly cooperative federal-state partnership that
maintains the rights of the states while monitoring and protecting a
federally sponsored program administered under the terms and conditions
of federal law.
The original GI Bill, as enacted in 1944, relied on state agencies
to establish standards for and to approve programs of education in
which eligible individuals could use GI Bill benefits. Over time SAAs
have evolved to become the primary means of assuring institutional
accountability. Federal law is clear in that SAAs are the primary
governmental body through which approval of education and training for
Veterans' educational benefits is to occur. With specialized
authorization under the Code of Federal Regulations and state statutes,
they exercise the state's authority to approve, disapprove and monitor
education and training programs. The SAA brings to this mission
knowledge of state law and regulations as well as knowledge of the
local environment and needs of the state. SAAs also assist the states
and VA with exposing fraudulent and criminal activity involving the
payment of Veteran's benefits.
In 1948, SAA representatives met to form a professional
organization to promote high professional standards, create a forum for
the exchange of best practices, and to promote uniformity of purpose
and practice. For more than seventy-five years now, NASAA has worked
with our VA partners, the VSOs, and all agencies to ensure the greatest
numbers of quality programs are available to those eligible for
education and training benefits. We do this through our primary mission
of program approval and our related efforts: compliance, oversight,
training, liaison, and outreach. Indeed, with the exception of federal
facilities, the State Approving Agencies are the sole authority
responsible for the approval of all programs of education and training
within the Nation. We take that responsibility seriously and consider
ourselves the ``gatekeepers of quality'' for programs approved under
the GI Bill.
Today, fifty-two SAAs in 50 states, as well as the District of
Columbia and the territory of Puerto Rico (one state has two SAAs),
composed of approximately 215 professional and support personnel, are
supervising over 13,000 active facilities and nearly 220,000 programs.
The Subcommittee is no stranger to our fundamental role as it is the
same today as when we were created by Congress. SAAs work in
collaboration with the VA and our other partners to promote and
safeguard quality education and training programs for Veterans and
other eligible persons and assist the VA in preventing fraud, waste,
and abuse in the administration of the GI Bill. NASAA believes the
primary responsibility and focus of the SAAs is, and should continue to
be, to review, evaluate, and approve programs at schools and training
facilities, utilizing state and federal criteria. It is this mission
that underlies our comments today and upon which we base our concerns
and suggestion.
H.R. 2830--``Veteran Improvement Commercial Driver License Act of 2023'
This legislation, while well meaning, causes NASAA great concern in
its present form. As drafted, this bill sweeps away the protections
provided for veterans under the two-year rule for private and not-for-
profit educational institutions that do not offer a standard college
degree (NCD institution). These educational institutions must be in
existence for at least two years and approved by other necessary state
regulatory authorities, such as a state department of education or
state department of business licensure. The institution must also have
successfully offered the program for approval for that same period of
time. This provision in essence, ensures that these institutions are
committed to their mission long term, and have demonstrated success
both programmatically and professionally. This is an important
safeguard preventing an NCD institution, such as a truck driving
school, from gaining approval without demonstrating a measure of
quality and stability in its continuous operation.
This bill, as presently drafted, only requires that an institution
offer the same curriculum as a previously SAA approved institution
anywhere in the Nation. This, and having met the requirements for
licensure within the state, are the only requirements for an exemption
from the two-year rule. A truck driving school could request immediate
approval of a ``branch'' campus anywhere in the nation, and the SAA of
jurisdiction would have no records (graduation rate, CDL pass rate, or
job placement) to determine the approvability of the program. SAAs view
their role as the gatekeepers of quality, and the defenders of the
integrity of the GI Bill. When we review a program for approval,
particularly at a new location, curriculum is only one factor we
review. We ensure that only programs that demonstrate quality
educational outcomes for students are accepted, and do so through the
review of instructor qualifications, administration, equipment,
classrooms, and technical ability to administer the program. These
factors can vary widely from one location to another (particularly from
one state to another) and it is important, to determine program
success, that we have some record of success to review and evaluate.
NASAA respectfully suggests that this legislation be amended so
that the only institutions which may apply for any waiver from the
requirements of the two-year rule are those within the same state as
the initial campus upon which the institution bases its application to
the SAA of jurisdiction. This means that one location must be approved
in the state under the two-year rule before any branch campuses can be
approved under any type of waiver. Also, we strongly suggest that the
legislation provides that institutions must show a history of having
provided the program at that location for a set period of time, 6
months to 1 year, or a set number of classes with at least 80 percent
of graduates obtaining CDL licensure within one month of graduation.
NASAA opposes this bill in its present form.
H.R._-``Transparency for Student Veterans Act of 2023''.
This bill amends 3698 Comprehensive policy on providing information
to veterans such that the information provided now includes median
amount of debt from Title IV programs of education leading to a
certificate or professional licensure at an approved Institution of
Higher Learning. Likewise, the information provided to veterans and
members of the Armed Forces will now include the rates at which
veterans and active-duty members enroll after the first year
(continuation rate) and the rates at which the graduate (completion
rate) from both degree and certificate programs. The bill requires that
veterans and service members also be provided the average annual salary
for those who complete the approved program.
NASAA agrees that providing this data to prospective student
veterans and service members allows them to make more informed choices
about which school would be the best fit for them as well as ensuring
they have better opportunities to complete their educational goals.
NASAA supports this bill.
H.R. 3816--``Veterans' Entry to Apprenticeship Act''
This bill provides that Pre-Apprenticeship programs may be approved
for GI Bill benefits and allows veterans to enroll in these programs as
set forward with the requirements prescribed within the bill. While
NASAA agrees with the purpose of this bill, we suggest that safeguards
be added to protect veterans enrolled in these programs. First, we
propose that only those pre-apprenticeship programs which are
vocational in nature be considered for approval. In 2012, the US
Department of Labor issued Training and Employment Notice 12-12, which
outlines the definition of a quality Pre-Apprenticeship Program. NASAA
believes that approval of any program for GI Bill benefits should meet
these same standards as a metric of demonstrating quality training is
occurring within the program. Likewise, we would like to see a
requirement that these programs, to be approved, not only be required
to demonstrate that the program will provide an individual with the
skills and competencies needed to enroll in an apprenticeship program,
but that they also demonstrate a record of success in placing veterans
into a registered apprenticeship program at an acceptable rate for the
industry involved (at least 80 percent) within six months of completion
of the pre-apprenticeship program. Finally, pre apprenticeship
graduates who move onto a full apprenticeship program must be granted
prior credit and advanced standing by the apprenticeship program.
NASAA supports this bill with suggested amendments.
H.R. 5914--To amend title 38, United States Code, to improve the
processes to approve programs of education for purposes of the
educational assistance programs of the Department of Veterans Affairs,
and for other purposes.
This bill addresses the need for veterans to seamlessly access
their hard-earned education benefits to facilitate a successful
transition to civilian life. Sadly, some recent legislative mandates,
particularly those requiring all educational institutions to provide
individualized shopping sheets, while intended to provide transparency,
have instead become, in some instances, an administrative burden
preventing veterans from accessing their education benefits.
Additionally, varying interpretations of rules and inconsistent
guidance has caused a communication gap between Department of Veteran
Affairs (VA) and School Certifying Officials (SCOs).
This legislation amends the requirement for a shopping sheet to
state that SAAs will only disapprove programs when facilities fail to
provide certain forms ``to the maximum extent possible.'' Also, this
legislation requires a centralized communication platform for improved
communication between VA and SCOs. NASAA believes this new language
will address those issues by providing flexibility to institutions,
such as police academies, truck driving schools and other approved NCD
institutions, while still providing adequate safeguards for veterans
and their families.
NASAA supports this bill.
Conclusion
Mr. Chairman, today, fifty-two SAAs, composed of approximately 215
professional and support personnel are supervising over 13,000 active
facilities with almost 220,000 programs. We are extremely grateful for
the opportunity to once again appear before this committee to share our
positions on the important legislation before the Committee. We remain
committed to working closely with our VA partners, VSO stakeholders and
educational institutions on these and other initiatives designed to
protect the quality and the integrity of the various GI Bill programs
and the Veterans and family members who have sacrificed so much for
this great Nation. I thank you again for this opportunity and I look
forward to answering any questions that you or committee members may
have.
______
Prepared Statement of Michael Hazard
Good afternoon, Chairman Van Orden and Members of the Committee. My
name is Mike Hazard, and I am employed by the United Association of
Journeymen and Apprentices of the Plumbing and Pipe Fitting Industry of
the United States and Canada (``UA'') as the Program Manager of the
UA's Veterans in Piping Training Program (``VIP Program''). I want to
thank the Committee for giving me the opportunity today to share the
success we've had at the UA VIP Program in helping transitioning
service men and women prepare for a career in the plumbing and
pipefitting industries, and to offer the UA's views on several bills
currently being considered by this Committee.
First, I would like to briefly share some information about my
background and the important work we do at the UA VIP Program. I first
joined the UA as a pipe tradesman in Santa Barbara, California in 1987.
Soon after that, however, I placed my UA career on hold and joined the
United States Navy, where I proudly served as an Aviation Rescue
Swimmer and H-46 Helicopter Mechanic for 11 years.
I was honorably discharged from the Navy in 1999 while holding the
rank of Petty Officer First Class.
Following my discharge from the Navy, I was able to pick up where I
had left off at the UA and returned to work as a journeyman pipefitter.
After working in the field for several years, I was offered and
accepted a position as a Training Coordinator for a regional
apprenticeship program in Southern California, where I facilitated
plumbing and pipe fitting training for over 10,000 UA members. I was
promoted to Executive Director of this training fund in 2008, which is
the position I held until I accepted my current position at the UA in
2012.
In my current position, I manage the day-to-day operations of the
nine UA VIP training sites located on seven military bases across the
United States. Under the VIP program, the UA offers departing service
men and women from all branches of the military the opportunity to
participate in an intensive, eighteen-week training program on base
which they receive at no cost to either the government or the student.
The VIP Program offers courses in Fire Suppression, Pipe Fitting/
Welding, and Heating, Ventilation, Air Conditioning and Refrigeration
(HVAC-R). When training is successfully completed, the graduates are
guaranteed a job and are placed in one of the UA's best-in-class,
``gold standard'' apprenticeship programs with advanced credit toward
the completion of their apprenticeship. Since its inception, I am proud
to state that the UA VIP Program has provided apprenticeship
opportunities to over 3,170 military veterans.
Data prepared by the Department of Labor shows that the average
annual compensation received by the graduate of a registered
apprenticeship program, included the UA training programs affiliated
with the VIP Program, is significantly higher than the average annual
earnings of an individual holding a Bachelor's or Associate's degree.
The DOL also reports that 90 percent of individuals who complete a
registered apprenticeship program retain their employment. These
findings allow me to confidently say that the UA VIP Program is
designed to place departing servicemembers on a path to a successful
and sustainable career.
I know from my own personal experience how valuable it can be when
transitioning back to civilian life to feel that an organization like
the UA has your back. Reconnecting with my UA brothers and sisters and
taking advantage of the work opportunities in this thriving industry
certainly made the transition more manageable for me. It has therefore
been deeply meaningful for me in my current position to be able to
provide a similar experience to other veterans by connecting departing
servicemembers with both the training opportunities and support systems
provided by the UA VIP Program.
With this background behind me, I will now summarize the UA's views
regarding several bills currently being considered by this Committee.
First, the UA would like to express its strong support for several
pending bills mentioned in the hearing invitation I received. These
include H.R. 3601, the Student Veteran Work Modernization Act, H.R.
5190, the Military Family Protection from Debt Act, the draft bill
proposing to modify the requirements of the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM
Scholarship, and the draft bill proposing to waive certain fees that
are charged in connection with housing loans guaranteed by the
Secretary of Veterans' Affairs.
Two of these bills--H.R. 3601 and the draft bill regarding the
Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship--will expand educational
opportunities for departing servicemembers by expanding veteran
eligibility for these important benefits. The other two bills I
mentioned will help provide financial security to veterans and military
families by waiving certain fees charged by the Department of Veteran
Affairs in connection with housing loan guarantees provided by that
agency, and by extending debt protections currently enjoyed by
servicemembers and their spouses to other dependents of the
servicemembers. These are measured, common-sense reforms that will
provide tangible benefits to veterans and military families and which
we believe can receive broad, bipartisan support.
On the other hand, I would also like to take this opportunity to
express the UA's opposition to the draft bill titled ``Consolidating
Veteran Employment Services for Improved Performance Act of 2023.''
Broadly speaking, this bill would transfer the work performed by the
VETs office at the Department of Labor to the Department of Veterans'
Affairs. While I am sure this bill is well-intentioned, I believe that
it is misguided and would not advance the interests of transitioning
service members. The VA has a very important mission, but--unlike the
DOL--job creation isn't typically understood as being a significant
part of that mission. I therefore believe that the DOL is and should
continue to be an important partner for the VA in providing training
and employment opportunities to veterans.
I personally have been working with the DOL VETs office for 15
years, and during that time, I have consistently been impressed by the
workforce development experts that are working there. These are
individuals who take the time to actually go out and talk to veterans
to learn more about their experiences and challenges. It has been my
experience that, owing to the efforts of the VETs office, there is good
cross-agency communication between the DOL, the VA, and the Department
of Defense, and that the separate programs administered by these
agencies are not unnecessarily siloed off. It is also my experience
that the DOL VETs office plays an important role in connecting veterans
with the apprenticeship programs that are also registered with the DOL.
Therefore, I believe that changing the structure of the DOL VETs office
in the manner proposed could result in much more harm than good, and I
would therefore ask the Committee not to move forward on that
particular effort.
In conclusion, I would like to thank the Committee again for this
opportunity, and I am prepared to answer any questions the Members of
the Committee may have for me.
Statements for the Record
----------
Prepared Statement of The American Legion
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of Veterans Education Project
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Prepared Statement of Veterans Education Success
Chairman Van Orden, Ranking Member Levin, and Members of the
Subcommittee:
We thank you for the opportunity to share this statement for
consideration during this hearing, which includes many notable bills
addressing topics in higher education and veterans education benefits.
Veterans Education Success is a nonprofit organization with the mission
of advancing higher education success for veterans, service members,
and military families, and protecting the integrity and promise of the
GI Bill and other federal education programs.
In this statement, we address the following legislative proposals:
Transparency for Student Veterans Act, draft language on the Edith
Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship, draft language on a repository of
guidance from the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA), Expanding
Access for Online Veteran Students Act, and a proposal to establish the
Veterans Economic Opportunity and Transition Administration at VA.
We applaud the Subcommittee's dedication to our Nation's veterans,
and look forward to working closely with the staff members on the
advancement of many of these important topics for broader
consideration.
H.R.--, Transparency for Student Veterans Act
This bill would require VA to disclose additional information about
schools to prospective student veterans, including data specifically
about veterans and service members who used VA educational assistance.
This would include data such as retention and completion rates, average
length of time for obtaining a credential, and average annual salary.
The bill also modifies the median debt calculation to include the debt
associated with certificate/professional licensure programs.
The bill would also direct VA to work with other federal agencies
to obtain outcomes information for students eligible for veterans
educational benefits. We have been long--time champions of providing
student veterans with the necessary information and resources to make
the most of their earned benefits and advance their career goals.\1\
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\1\ Veterans Education Success, ``Statement for the Record
Submitted to the Senate Committee on Veterans Affairs 118th Congress,
First Session - Veterans Education Success,'' Veterans Education
Success, April 24, 2023, https://vetsedsuccess.org/statement-for-the-
record-submitted-to-the-senate-committee-on-veterans-affairs-118th-
congress-first-session/.
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From a technical standpoint, we would like to offer some feedback
for consideration regarding how the term ``covered education'' is used
in the text. ``Covered education'' is defined with reference to 38
U.S.C. Sec. 3691A, which provides that ``covered education'' is ``a
course of education (A) at an institution of higher education; and (B)
paid with educational assistance furnished under a law administered by
the Secretary.'' Requesting data for ``covered education'' might
include individuals who used VA benefits for only a portion of their
education.
An individual may not have sufficient educational assistance to pay
for their entire education and may use VA educational assistance to pay
for only a portion of their education. Some of the data points do not
seem to consider this possibility, which may lead to confusion and
inaccurate information being provided. For example, the data point on
the rate at which veterans and service members ``complete covered
education'' could be interpreted in two ways: 1. The rate at which
veterans complete a degree that is completely paid with VA educational
assistance; 2. The rate at which they complete the portion of their
degree that is paid with VA educational assistance. We think the
current text of this bill is ambiguous on which interpretation would be
correct and could result in VA providing the incorrect data.
Similarly, the data points on the ``average length of time'' for a
veteran ``to complete covered education at the institution'' would seem
to include the periods when only a portion of the education is paid
with VA educational assistance. Unless the data points are clarified,
the bill could lead VA to generate misleading information about the
success rate of veterans in completing their education.
Despite these technical considerations, we offer our support for
the intent of this legislation, and hope to work with Congress to
advance this measure.
H.R. 3601, Student Veteran Work Study Modernization Act
The bill institutes a five-year pilot program that would expand the
existing provisions related to the work-study program for students
under the Veteran Readiness and Employment (VR&E) program. Currently,
individuals must be pursuing programs at a rate of at least three-
quarters of a full-time student. The pilot program would expand it to
individuals pursuing a program at a rate of half of a full-time
student. The bill also institutes a reporting requirement and
references how to determine the budgetary effects.
We recognize the importance and value of the work-study program
available through VA for student veterans to supplement their income
while pursuing their training and education goals. We support extending
this program to VR&E students to afford them opportunities to engage in
activities supporting their income, and we support this legislation.
H.R.--, To amend title 38, United States Code, to modify the
requirements of the Edith Nourse Rogers STEM Scholarship
This bill would make several changes to the Edith Nourse Rogers
STEM scholarship to make the scholarship more accessible to student
veterans intending to make use of the program, including:
Expand the list of eligible degrees to include graduate
degrees.
Lower the number of credit hours required to qualify for
the scholarship.
Add new priority groups for students who have used the
most months of assistance and students pursuing a qualifying post-
secondary degree.
Expanding the list of eligible degrees to include graduate degrees
would provide additional flexibility in the program, but should be
monitored to ensure that utilization by officers for graduate studies
does not come at the expense of enlisted seeking undergraduate degrees.
One technical issue is that the credit hour requirement in the current
statute (38 USC Sec. 3320(B)(3)(a)(i)) may need to be revised to
include graduate programs.
We also believe that lowering the number of completed credit hours
required to qualify for the scholarship would increase participation.
However, we encourage the Subcommittee to consider readdressing these
changes if future utilization rates balance significantly in favor of
graduate students and officers, as they are not the original target
audience of the program.
Finally, adding new priority groups for students who have used the
most months of assistance and students pursuing a qualifying post-
secondary degree would ensure that the scholarship is awarded to
students who are most in need of financial assistance.
We support the passage of this legislation, and look forward to
working with the Committee on this bill.
H.R.--, To amend title, United States Code, to improve the processes to
approve programs of education for purposes of the educational
assistance programs of the Department of Veterans Affairs, and for
other purposes;
The bill proposes changes related to consumer information
requirements for schools, and the establishment of a website for school
certifying official (SCO) training information by VA. Section 1(a)
reduces the requirement that schools provide certain consumer
information to prospective students by inserting ``to the maximum
extent practicable.'' Section 1(b) requires VA to establish a website
for publishing information about SCO training the Department provides.
Section 1(a). Currently under 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3679(f)(1)(A), schools
risk losing VA approval if they do not provide individuals with a form
containing certain information before enrollment.\2\ These disclosures
include reasonable and necessary information for student veteran
decision-making, including:
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\2\ 38 U.S.C. Sec. 3679 (2023). https://www.law.cornell.edu/
uscode/text/38/3679.
The estimated total cost of the course, including
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
tuition, fees, books, supplies, and any other additional costs;
An estimate of the cost for living expenses for students
enrolled in the course;
The amount of the costs under clauses (i) and (ii) that
are covered by the educational assistance provided to the individual
under chapter 30, 31, 32, 33, or 35 of this title, or chapter 1606 or
1607 of title 10, as the case may be;
The type and amount of Federal financial aid not
administered by the Secretary and financial aid offered by the
institution that the individual may qualify to receive;
An estimate of the amount of student loan debt the
individual would have upon graduation;
Information regarding graduation rates;
Job-placement rates for graduates of the course, if
available;
Information regarding the acceptance by the institution
of transfer of credits, including military credits;
Any conditions or additional requirements, including
training, experience, or examinations, required to obtain the license,
certification, or approval for which the course of education is
designed to provide preparation; and
Other information to facilitate comparison by the
individual of aid packages offered by different educational
institutions.
The bill modifies the schools' obligations in Section 3679(f)(1)(A)
by inserting that the information is provided only ``to the maximum
extent practicable.'' However, ``to the maximum extent practicable'' is
a subjective and yielding standard that would make the disclosures
essentially unenforceable, removing an important protection for
veterans. We believe that the information currently required is
necessary for veterans to make the best decision about where to spend
their hard-earned GI Bill benefits.
Inserting the phrase ``to the maximum extent practicable'' seems to
elevate the convenience of the schools above the interests of the
veterans and could result in student veterans generally being denied
important information. Further, without a firm obligation to provide
the information, bad actors may seize the opportunity to withhold
critical information and mislead student veterans into enrolling in a
program.
Clearly the information in Section 3679 is information student
veterans would benefit from before they decide to enroll in a school.
VA-approved schools should continue to be required to provide the
information, as it is all information that should be known to the
schools. If there were a specific piece of information that schools
widely are unable to provide for reasons outside of their control, then
updating the statute to address that specific disclosure would be a
more precise course of action. We oppose Section 1(a) of the bill.
Section 1(b). In a recent Economic Opportunity Subcommittee
hearing, it became abundantly clear that there is a lack of access to
historical guidance from VA's Education Service Office.\3\ We believe
all guidance from VA, including historical notices, is highly valuable
- and indeed, extremely necessary - for SCOs to access.
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\3\ U.S. House of Representatives Veterans' Affairs Subcommittee on
Economic Opportunity. Oversight Hearing, ``Less is More: The Impact of
Bureaucratic Red Tape on Veterans Education Benefits,'' (September 20,
2023, https://veterans.house.gov/calendar/
eventsingle.aspx?EventID=6258.
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Like any role on campus, the SCO function is subject to turnover in
personnel, so having a consolidated and accurate repository of this
information would afford additional continuity on campus, and support
the overall administration of education benefits. In addition to SCOs,
university officials, veterans advocates, and Congress would all
benefit from greater transparency and access to this information. We
fully support this section of the bill, and would be eager to advocate
in favor of advancing this section of the legislation.
H.R. 5702, Expanding Access for Online Veteran Students Act
The bill would increase the housing allowance for solely online
students attending a summer course less than 12 weeks, giving them a
housing allowance equal to the national average.
We believe the significant federal costs of increasing MHA for
online-only students should not be the top spending priority for the
Subcommittee, given existing and more compelling unmet needs of
veterans. We urge the Subcommittee to set aside this bill and instead
prioritize issues such as veterans who need GI Bill Parity for Guard
and Reserve service, Survivors and Dependents Chapter 35 improvements,
and restoring the GI Bill for defrauded student veterans.
On the substance, the bill brings serious adverse consequences for
veterans. We believe that a common principle we can collectively agree
to is the desire to support veterans and their families. In doing so,
we further believe it is important to consider the second and third
order effects of these policies, and to anticipate their adverse
unintended consequences. In this instance, we strongly caution Congress
about such a shift in policy, and recommend considering the following
associated impacts:
Incentivizing Students to Leave Flagship Public
Universities. This bill would incentivize veterans to leave
high-quality, flagship public universities in low-housing cost
states - such as Arizona, Indiana, Kentucky, South Carolina,
and Wisconsin - to attend lower-quality online-only college
chains due to the housing allowance being higher. Current
housing allowance rates for in-person and hybrid learners are
based on the Department of Defense's (DOD) housing allowance
rates (BAH) for an ``E-5 with dependents.'' \4\ DOD recognizes
339 different housing allowance zones. Over sixty percent of
these DOD BAH zones have housing costs less than the national
average. In some of the least expensive zones, the housing
allowance is one-half the national average.\5\ Student veterans
in 206 zones would receive more housing allowance by attending
an online-only school.
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\4\ U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, ``Post-9/11 GI Bill
(Chapter 33): How does VA determine my monthly housing allowance
(MHA)?'' (2023), www.va.gov/education/about-gi-bill-benefits/post-9-11/
#how-does-va-determine-my-month.
\5\ Defense Travel Management Office, ``Basic Allowance for Housing
Rate Lookup,'' (2023) https://www.travel.dod.mil/allowances/basic-
allowance-for-housing/bah-rate-lookup/.
Even if this bill limits the timeframe to the summer term, a
potential increase of $3,000 or more would be a powerful
economic factor for students to incentivize students to switch
to a solely online college. Furthermore, veterans switching
from public colleges and universities to online-only college
chains would receive a lower-quality education. The existing
unbiased research regarding distance learning has documented
better outcomes for in-person education when compared to online
education.\6\ Certainly, more investigation is needed before
Congress acts to prioritize online programs and incentivize
student veterans to attend online colleges.
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\6\ See, e.g., Stephanie Riegg Cellini, Brookings Institution,
``How Does Virtual Learning Impact Students in Higher Education'' (Aug.
13, 2021), https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2021/
08/13/how-does-virtual-learning-impact-students-in-higher-education/.
Marketing Tool for Bad Actors. Low-quality and
predatory schools would use the availability of an increased
housing allowance as a selling point to target veterans to
attend predatory and exploitative programs. In the aftermath of
having finally closed the 90/10 loophole, a shift to a full
housing allowance for solely online colleges would re-establish
veterans as a target for unscrupulous schools; many of these
schools have been sued by law enforcement and fined by federal
agencies for defrauding students, and can reasonably be
expected to abuse this change.\7\
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\7\ People of the State of California v. Ashford University,
et.al., 37-2018-00046134-CU-MC-CTL, Statement of Decision (hereinafter,
``Order''), filed March 3, 2022, available at https://oag.ca.gov/
system/files/attachments/press-docs/37-2018-00046134-CU-MC-CTL_KROA-
696_03-03-22_Statement_of_Decision_1646669688827.pdf.
Increasing Overall Costs. We believe that much of the
potential enrollment shift incentivized by the higher housing
allowance would be from low-tuition public institutions to
high-tuition private ones, driving up costs not only for VA,
but also for the very students veterans that the bill seeks to
help. Much of our work with veterans seeking our support
involves speaking with former students who were recruited
through high-pressure sales tactics. These students were often
led to believe that their GI Bill benefits would cover all
costs, only to find themselves heavily in debt as the schools
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exhausted their benefits and forced them to borrow.
Undermining the Rationale for Online Education. Such
a change would also undermine the original intent of Congress
that established a lower housing allowance for solely online
study as being meant to accommodate the additional employment
flexibility and convenience that distance education is intended
to provide non-traditional students.\8\ Entirely online courses
are typically designed to allow students to continue working
while enrolled. The lower housing allowance provided to solely
online students therefore reflects this central distinction
from in-person students; setting it at the same or greater rate
as for in-person students would overlook meaningful differences
in expenses and opportunity costs incurred by students enrolled
in the two distinct modes of delivery.
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\8\ U.S. Senate Report 111-346, ``POST-9/11 VETERANS EDUCATIONAL
ASSISTANCE IMPROVEMENTS ACT OF 2010,'' (2010), https://
www.Congress.gov/congressional-report/111th-congress/senate-report/346/
1.
At the onset of the COVID public health emergency, when many
institutions had to move their classes online, we supported the
Veterans' Affairs Committees' work to change the housing policy to
allow students enrolled in online courses to continue to receive 100
percent of their residential monthly housing allowance.\9\ This
temporary policy was intended to accommodate the significant additional
housing costs that in-person students had already incurred when the
pandemic forced them to go online.
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\9\ Public Law 116-140, ``Student Veteran Coronavirus Response Act
of 2020,'' 116th Congress, 2nd Session, (2020) https://
www.Congress.gov/116/plaws/publ140/PLAW-116publ140.pdf.
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At the time, Congress chose not to complicate its effort to provide
relief to such students by making distinctions between those student
veterans who were already enrolled entirely online versus those who
were forced into online delivery due to the pandemic. This, despite the
fact that it was always understood that students enrolled in in-person
courses were incurring additional housing and opportunity costs not
incurred by online students.
Today, colleges are back in-person, and proper policy should revert
to status quo ante by acknowledging the higher housing costs incurred
by students attending in-person. We urge the Subcommittee not to move
forward with this legislation. We believe a near-term solution would be
for Congress to direct the execution of an unbiased study of online
learning outcomes as it pertains to Title 38 veterans education
benefits.
H.R. 3738, To amend title 38, United States Code, to establish in the
Department of Veterans Affairs the Veterans Economic Opportunity and
Transition Administration, and for other purposes
This measure proposes the creation of a ``Veterans Economic
Opportunity and Transition Administration'' within VA, overseen by a
new Under Secretary. The purpose of this new Administration would be to
manage and administer various programs focused on delivering economic
opportunity benefits to veterans and their dependents and survivors.
The bill would also require the Secretary to provide an annual report
to Congress on the programs administered by the Under Secretary for
Veterans Economic Opportunity and Transition.
Various versions of this legislation have been proposed over more
than the past decade. Notably, several iterations of this proposal have
passed the House of Representatives, but none has been successful in
passing the Senate.\10\ One previous sticking point had been the
inclusion of a provision which would have moved the U.S. Department of
Labor (DoL) Veterans' Employment and Training Service (VETS) program
under the proposed new Administration within VA. This current
legislation makes no such proposal.
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\10\ Six iterations of this legislation have been proposed over the
past 15 years, including H.R. 2494 (117th Congress), H.R. 2045 (116th
Congress), H.R. 5644 (115th Congress), H.R. 2327 (113th Congress), H.R.
2481 (113th Congress), and H.R. 3719 (111th Congress); on three
occasions, the legislation passed the U.S. House of Representatives
unanimously, including HRs 2494, 2045, and 2481. https://
www.Congress.gov/.
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Historical support for various iterations of this legislation have
included the Veterans of Foreign Wars (VFW), Disabled American Veterans
(DAV), Vietnam Veterans of America (VVA), American Veterans (AMVETS),
Paralyzed Veterans of America (PVA), and Student Veterans of America
(SVA).\11\ The concept has also been previously endorsed in the annual
Independent Budget produced by DAV, PVA, and VFW.\12\ We believe this
support stems from the overall recognition that the Veterans Benefits
Administration (VBA) continues to struggle in its competing missions of
delivering disability compensation benefits and a wide variety of
economic opportunity benefits such as the GI Bill.
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\11\ Hubbard, William, ``Testimony of Mr. William Hubbard, Chief of
Staff, Student Veterans of America,'' Apr. 30, 2019, https://
www.Congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109320/witnesses/HHRG-116-VR10-
Wstate-HubbardW-20190430.pdf.
\12\ Independent Budget,https://www.independentbudget.org/wp-
content/uploads/2023/02/TIB-EAE1-Create-an-Economic-Opportunity-
Administration-Within-The-Department-of-Veteran-Affairs-VA.pdf.
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In 2018, VBA established the Office of Transition and Economic
Development (TED), now referred to as Outreach, Transition and Economic
Development (OTED), in response to previous proposals similar to this
legislation.\13\, \14\ The establishment of that office
represented an acknowledgement that VBA had been structurally
unprepared to respond to the modern needs of veterans when it comes to
transition and economic opportunity. We believe much of the office is
geared toward transition more so than economic opportunity and tools of
empowerment such as the GI Bill.\15\
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\13\ Devlin, Margarita, ``Statement of Margarita Devlin, Principal
Deputy Under Secretary for Benefits, Veterans Benefits Administration,
Department of Veterans Affairs, before the House Committee on Veterans'
Affairs Subcommittee on Economic Opportunity,'' Apr. 9, 2019, https://
www.congress.gov/116/meeting/house/109258/witnesses/HHRG-116-VR10-
Wstate-DevlinM-20190409.pdf.
\14\ U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, ``Outreach, Transition
and Economic Development,'' https://benefits.va.gov/transition/
index.asp.
\15\ Rawls, Cheryl, ``Statement of Ms. Cheryl Rawls, Executive
Director, Outreach, Transition and Economic Development Service
Department of Veterans Affairs before the Subcommittee on Disability
Assistance and Memorial Affairs Committee on Veterans' Affairs U.S.
House of Representatives,'' Feb. 8, 2022, https://docs.house.gov/
meetings/VR/VR09/20220208/114386/HHRG-117-VR09-Wstate-RawlsC-20220208-
U1.pdf.
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Despite the existence of this office for the past five years,
significant barriers remain when it comes to economic opportunity for
veterans. Delays in benefits distribution occurred recently and raise
questions about broader systemic issues.\16\, \17\ Veterans
should never be exposed to doubt whether or not they will be able to
pay rent in a given month.
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\16\ U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, ``Important Update About
GI Bill Monthly Payments for Students,'' Mar. 31, 2023, https://
content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USVAVBA/bulletins/3522215.
\17\ U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, ``Update on Post 9/11 GI
Bill MHA Delayed Payment for March 2023,'' Apr. 19, 2023, https://
content.govdelivery.com/accounts/USVAVBA/bulletins/355e1e1.
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Furthermore, VA's attention to implementing critical consumer
protection laws has been inconsistent, or entirely lacking in certain
instances, over the past several decades. For example, VA's inadequate
implementation of 38 U.S.C. 3696 prevents GI Bill beneficiaries from
making an informed choice when deciding where to use their hard----
earned benefits, and undermines the integrity of the GI Bill by
allowing schools that engage in fraud to receive taxpayer support.
Even more troubling, schools including Alta (Westwood College),
Corinthian, ITT, and former EDMC brands (Argosy, Art Institutes, South
University) which engaged in deceptive advertising and enrollment
tactics have closed precipitously, leaving beneficiaries without a
degree after having wasted some or all of their benefits.\18\ We remain
deeply concerned about the continued ability of predatory schools to
defraud veterans out of their hard-earned GI Bill benefits. More recent
examples of failing to provide adequate responses have included:
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\18\ Veterans Education Success, ``VA Still Not Enforcing 1974 Ban
on Schools that Engage in Deceptive Advertising and Recruiting,'' Oct.
2019, https://vetsedsuccess.org/va-still-not-enforcing-1974-ban-on-
schools-that-engage-in-deceptive-advertising-and-recruiting/.
House of Prayer. Last summer, the public widely
learned about the shocking allegations associated with a system
of schools misleadingly called House of Prayer Christian
Church.\19\ This case culminated in a raid by the Federal
Bureau of Investigation, a case we had reported to VA over 2
years prior.\20\, \21\
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\19\ Beynon, Steve and Novelly, Thomas. ``How a Church Allegedly
Scammed Millions in VA Money from Vets,'' Military.com, Jul. 19, 2022,
https://www.military.com/daily news/2022/07/19/how-church-allegedly
scammed-millions-va-money-vets.html.
\20\ Koch, Alexandra, ``FBI raids Georgia churches near military
bases, sources say church was targeting soldiers,'' USA Today, Jun. 24,
2022, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/06/24/fbi-raids-
house-prayer-churches/7724801001/.
\21\ Veterans Education Success, ``Our Letter to VA and Georgia SAA
Regarding House of Prayer Christian Church,'' Aug. 1, 2020, https://
vetsedsuccess.org/letter-to-va-and-georgia-saa-regarding-house-of-
prayer-christian-church/.
Perdoceo. In 2021, we alerted VA to law enforcement's
concerns about the Perdoceo Education Corporation, formerly
known as the Career Education Corporation, encompassing
American Intercontinental University, Colorado Technical
University, California Southern University, and Trident
University International.\22\ Despite calling VA's attention to
enforcement actions and investigations by Federal and State
authorities, these schools remain eligible for GI Bill funding.
In 2019, 36 veterans and military service organizations wrote
to VA over similar concerns, and despite years of community-
wide concerns, no meaningful action has been taken to date.\23\
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\22\ Veterans Education Success, ``Summary of Veteran and
Servicemember Student Complaints about Perdoceo Education
Corporation,'' September 1st, 2021, https://vetsedsuccess.org/summary-
of-veteran-and-servicemember-student-complaints-about-perdoceo-
education-corporation/.
\23\ Letter from Veterans and Military Service Organizations to the
Secretary of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, Feb. 14, 2019,
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/556718b2e4b02e470eb1b186/t/
5c6db4db1905f4690dd06f6f/1550693596300/ VSO+Letter+to+VA+Secretary-
1.pdf.
School Closures. In August 2021, we wrote a
memorandum to VA to establish our concern over the language on
its GI Bill Restoration Page.\24\, \25\ Under the
VETS Credit Act, veterans simply have to sign a declaration
that they understand that if they transfer 12 or more credits
they are ineligible to receive their full GI Bill
restoration.\26\ Despite this new law, VA continues to present
logistical hurdles for veterans to use the benefits they
earned.
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\24\ Hubbard, William, ``Memorandum From William Hubbard to
Department of Veterans Affairs on Changes to VBA Webpage,'' Aug. 17,
2021, https://vetsedsuccess.org/memorandum-from-william-hubbard-to-
department-of-veterans-affairs-on-changes-to-vba-webpage/.
\25\ U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, ``Restoration of Benefits
After School Closure or if a School is Disapproved for GI Bill
Benefits,'' https://www.benefits.va.gov/GIBILL/Restoration.asp. Updated
March 15, 2023.
\26\ Veterans Education Success, Our Press Release: Senate Passes
Important ``VETS Credit Act'' Unanimously, Bill Heads to the President
for Signature,'' https://vetsedsuccess.org/our-press-release-senate-
passes-important-vets-credit-act-unanimously bill-heads-to-the-
president-for-signature/.
FastTrain and Retail Ready Career Center. It is
unacceptable that veterans should have to wonder why obvious
scams like FastTrain College and Retail Ready Career Center
were approved in the first place.\27\ The VA's statutes
governing program approval are seriously outdated, referencing
classes taught ``by radio,'' and they continue to allow a low
standard of entry. Veterans should be able to count on VA's
``stamp of approval'' as the level of quality they - and
taxpayers - expect.
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\27\ Ayala, Eva-Marie, ``Hundreds of veterans scramble after
Garland for-profit college closes,'' The Dallas Morning News, Sep 28,
2017, https://www.dallasnews.com/news/education/2017/09/28/hundreds-of-
veterans-scramble-after-garland-for-profit-college-closes/.
Our testimony is in no way intended to take away from the
incredible work of the many hardworking VBA teams. In fact, quite the
opposite. We believe these teams should be further empowered to achieve
even greater success, and have seen that the current system in place
does not set up for maximum success the dedicated staff of VBA. When
these professionals are provided with the full opportunity to succeed,
the end result is a more reliable and higher quality set of
opportunities for the ultimate customer of VA: our Nation's veterans.
It's possible a new Administration and Under Secretary could help
to address these issues, though the premise remains untested. We
encourage this Committee and Congress to heavily deliberate over the
long-term implications of continuing with the current system, which is
clearly inadequate. We believe this legislation is worth serious
consideration and debate, so there may be progress toward providing all
veterans with quality programs they deserve.
Conclusion
Veterans Education Success sincerely appreciates the opportunity to
express our views before this Subcommittee. We look forward to the
discussion and review of these proposals, and we are grateful for the
continued opportunities to collaborate on these topics.
Information Required by Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives
Pursuant to Rule XI2(g)(4) of the House of Representatives,
Veterans Education Success has not received any federal grants in
fiscal year 2023, nor has it received any federal grants in the two
previous Fiscal Years.
Prepared Statement of Commercial Vehicle Training Association
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Prepared Statement of National Association of State Workforce Agencies
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Prepared Statement of Military-Veterans Advocacy, Inc.
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