[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
. VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME IN THE
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-48
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
53-784 WASHINGTON : 2023
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair
DARRELL ISSA, California JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking
KEN BUCK, Colorado Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California
MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM McCLINTOCK, California HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin Georgia
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ADAM SCHIFF, California
CHIP ROY, Texas ERIC SWALWELL, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina TED LIEU, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin J. LUIS CORREA, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
BEN CLINE, Virginia JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL
GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona, Chair
MATT GAETZ, Florida SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas, Ranking
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin Member
TROY NEHLS, Texas LUCY McBATH, Georgia
BARRY MOORE, Alabama MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
KEVIN KILEY, California CORI BUSH, Missouri
LAUREL LEE, Florida STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
Georgia
CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
C O N T E N T S
----------
Thursday, October 12, 2023
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime and
Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Arizona...... 1
The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking Member of the
Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from
the State of Texas............................................. 3
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary
from the State of Ohio......................................... 6
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on
the Judiciary from the State of New York....................... 6
WITNESSES
Charles ``Cully'' Stimson, Deputy Director, Edwin Meese III
Center, The Heritage Foundation
Oral Testimony................................................. 10
Prepared Testimony............................................. 12
Gregg Pemberton, Chair, Detective Grade 1, D.C. Police Union
Oral Testimony................................................. 32
Prepared Testimony............................................. 34
Lindsey Appiah, Deputy Mayor, Public Safety and Justice,
Washington, DC
Oral Testimony................................................. 37
Prepared Testimony............................................. 39
Thomas Abt, Chair, Violent Crime Working Group; Senior Fellow,
Council on Criminal Justice
Oral Testimony................................................. 47
Prepared Testimony............................................. 49
Mitchell Sobolevsky, Victim of Crime, Washington, DC
Oral Testimony................................................. 52
Prepared Testimony............................................. 54
Gaynor Jablonski, Owner, Valor Brewpub, Washington, DC
Oral Testimony................................................. 56
Prepared Testimony............................................. 58
Myisha Richards, Firefighter/Paramedic, Washington, DC
Oral Testimony................................................. 59
Prepared Testimony............................................. 61
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
Crime and Federal Government Surveillance are listed below..... 81
Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the
Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from
the State of Arizona, for the record
A report entitled, ``The D.C. City Council Failed at Criminal
Justice Reform--Congress Must Fix It,'' Jul. 12, 2023,
The Heritage Foundation
A report entitled, ``The Blue City Murder Problem,'' Nov. 4,
2022, The Heritage Foundation
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government
Surveillance from the State of Texas, for the record
An article entitled, ``90 drug and gun offenders released
after police misconduct probe,'' Mar. 14, 2023, WUSA9
A copy of 18 U.S.C. 922(g), No Mandatory Minimum Penalties
Statement by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking Member
of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government
Surveillance from the State of Texas
A copy of HR 7100, 116th Congress, 2nd Session, Jun. 4, 2020
APPENDIX
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government
Surveillance from the State of Texas, for the record
An article entitled, ``DC Invests More Policing Than Any
Other Large City,'' Third Way
A copy of the Code of the District of Columbia, 22-4503,
entitled, ``Unlawful possession of firearm,'' Council of
the District of Columbia
A copy of 18 U.S.C. 922, Part I, Chapter 44, entitled,
``Unlawful acts''
A copy of 18 U.S.C. 924, Penalties
VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME IN THE.
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
----------
Thursday, October 12, 2023
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Andy Biggs
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives Biggs, Jordan, Gaetz,
Tiffany, Kiley, Lee, Jackson Lee, Nadler, McBath, Dean, and
Johnson.
Also present: Representative Ivey and Delegate Norton.
Mr. Biggs. [Presiding.] Good morning.
The Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Crime is called
to order. We thank all of you for being here.
We will begin with the Pledge of Allegiance offered by the
gentleman from California, Mr. Kiley.
[Pledge of Allegiance.]
Thank you, Mr. Kiley, and thank each of you.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
recess at any time.
We welcome everyone to today's hearing on Victims of
Violent Crime in the District of Columbia.
Without objection, the gentlelady from the District of
Columbia, Ms. Norton, will be able to participate in today's
hearing to question witnesses if a member yields their time for
that purpose. We are grateful to have Ms. Norton visiting with
us today. Thank you.
I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
We welcome, again, each of you to our hearing today in the
Nation's Capital. We especially thank all our witnesses. We are
grateful to have you here.
The crime we are witnessing just a few blocks from this
building is unprecedented. No section of the city can be
considered safe anymore, and the man who is in charge of
prosecuting the criminals has abandoned his responsibilities.
That is Matthew Graves, U.S. Attorney for the District of
Columbia, who was appointed by President Joe Biden. He is
failing to prosecute criminals.
His office has consistently declined to prosecute criminals
in the District. In 2021, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the
District of Columbia opted against prosecuting 67 percent of
arrests presented in the D.C. Superior Court.
To provide context, out of the 15,315 arrests made in D.C.,
10,261 did not lead to prosecution. In comparison, in 2015, the
U.S. AODC only declined to prosecute 35 percent of cases, which
suggests that the office under Graves' leadership is failing to
prosecute crimes and protect the public.
In just a few short years, the city went from having 65
percent of cases prosecuted to having 65 percent of cases
dropped--a complete reversal that has had a catastrophic impact
on public safety. Mr. Graves has indicated that the type of
cases he is refusing to prosecute are primarily illegal gun
possession and illegal drug possession cases.
Without fail, we can anticipate that my Democratic
colleagues will call for more gun control, but President
Biden's handpicked prosecutor for Washington, DC, refuses to
enforce gun laws already on the books.
Violent crime rates in Washington, DC, have seen a
significant spike this year. Just last week, the District
surpassed 200 homicides--the quickest the District has hit this
mark at this point in the year this century.
As of October 3, 2023, violent crime is up 38 percent from
the same time last year. For example, as of October 4, 2023,
MPD data shows 750 reported carjackings, of which an alarming
75 percent involved weapons. However, there have only been 113
arrests for carjackings this year--with juveniles responsible
for an astonishing 65 percent of those carjackings.
Additionally, as of October 4th, year-to-date statistics
for 2023 reveal 216 homicides, 123 cases of sexual abuse, 2,656
robberies, and 1,110 assaults involving dangerous weapons. As
of October 4, 2023, the District has witnessed 4,105 violent
crimes and 21,980 property crimes.
The criminals know they will not be prosecuted by U.S.
Attorney Matthew Graves, but Matthew Graves is not the only one
soft on criminals in Washington, DC. City leadership slashed
the Metropolitan Police Department budget by, roughly, $15
million in 2021, and the Washington, DC, City Council has
passed laws that embolden criminals and hamstring the police.
In November 2022, the D.C. City Council voted unanimously
on a bill to overhaul the Criminal Code, which reduced the
maximum sentence for almost all violent crimes and eliminated
mandatory minimums for all crimes, except first degree murder.
That proposal was vetoed by the mayor, which was later
unanimously overridden. The bill was so radical that bipartisan
majorities in both the House and Senate passed a resolution to
prohibit it from becoming law and President Biden signed it.
In the wake of the May 2020 of George Floyd, the District
City Council passed police reform legislation that radically
changed policing in the District. Unfortunately, city
leadership has not always supported law enforcement, and that
shows up in recruiting, and failure to retain officers who they
have spent money training have simply been let go.
Today, we will hear from a former Assistant U.S. Attorney,
an MPD detective, and victims of crime about ways to make this
city safe again.
At this time, I have two articles that I'm going to enter
into the record--one called ``The D.C. City Council Failed at
Criminal Justice Reform--Congress Must Fix It,'' and another
called ``The Blue City Murder Problem.'' Those will be admitted
to the record without objection. Seeing none.
Now, I am going to show a short video.
[Video played.]
I thank again the witnesses for being here. I look forward
to your testimony. We appreciate your being here, and all in
the audience and the Members of the Committee being here.
I yield and now recognize the gentlelady from Texas, the
Ranking Member, Ms. Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, thank you so much for your
courtesies.
Thank you to my colleagues that are here, Ranking Member
Nadler, Congresswoman McBath, and Congresswoman Dean. We are
pleased that the District of Columbia Representative,
Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton, is present today to make
many efforts to hear her voice.
Let me be very clear. We are in the midst of disarray. We
have no Speaker. For those of you who watch Democrats come in,
we are in a very serious caucus meeting, which is our
responsibility. So, please forgive us for any short delay that
you may have seen. It is no offense intended.
The first thing I want to say is to those who have been
victims of crime--that there is no greater responsibility for
those of us in Congress and those of us in local government,
those of us who will lead cities and those of us who lead
cities, to realize that our people, the people there, are our
greatest responsibilities.
I want to be a problem solver and a crime fighter. So,
having lived here even before I was a Member of Congress, and
enjoyed the blessings of being a resident of the District of
Columbia or working in the District of Columbia, I can assure
you I have a great affection for this city--separate and apart
from its historic responsibility or role as the Capital of the
United States, which I tell all my elementary school children
about how important Washington is.
I do want to say that we need to be serious about what has
happened to you, as a victim, and my colleagues seem to want to
exaggerate not your injury and the fear, but the idea that we
were also attacked on January 6, 2021, when there were no
voices from my friends on the other side of the aisle about the
violence that came to this city and no interest in voting for
the commission that we were trying to put forward.
So, I want to make sure that, when this hearing gets
through, that we have solutions for you, and that we either
work with Federal funds, which I know that your Member is
working on. As I do so, let me be very clear: This is a
challenging moment. We embrace our victims. We want them to be,
in essence, never victims again, but protected in the status
that they are in.
In the record, I must place the 10 cities that employed the
most police officers per capita in 2022: Washington, DC, 542.91
per 100,000. It doesn't mean, residents, it doesn't mean not
more are needed. It means we need to work together. The 10
cities that spent the most on policing per resident in 2022:
Washington, DC, No. 1; $751.62 per person.
So, we need to find a way to get to the core of the
violence, the violent criminals off the street. This uptick in
crime is concerning, not only for the residents who call this
city home, especially in the areas of the city that bear the
brunt of the most violence, but also for the millions of
visitors who come to experience its rich history, culture, its
warmth, and important political institutions.
That is why I hope we will have a genuine discussion today
that focuses on solutions. We can't win by finger-pointing. We
are in the midst of finger-pointing now, and we have no
Speaker.
It is essential that Congress prioritize the safety and
security of those who live, work, and visit the District by
ensuring that the Federal government, we must do our part. I am
a big believer in Federal resources matching local resources
for your safety.
The District of Columbia is unique in many ways, and one of
them is the complex relationship it shares with the Federal
government. While its status as the Nation's Capital brings
many benefits, it also brings many challenges. We are in here
every day as guests, but we also create an extra financial
burden.
In combating violent crime, the District of Columbia has
taken a multifaceted approach that includes passing emergency
legislation, supported by the mayor, that filled in gaps in
pretrial detention procedures for violent criminals. We are
holding, you are holding more of these criminals now;
bolstering law enforcement programs and recruitment; and
implementing community policing initiatives and instituting a
juvenile curfew in certain hotspots.
We know that we have to work with juveniles. We know they
are in the midst of juveniles going forward into the 20s, are
those who are in the mix. Those in their late 20s are the ones
with most of the gun violent incidences. We understand that.
So, enhancing the use of technology, such as CCTV cameras,
to combat crime. Additionally, the District has focused on
crime prevention strategies, such as increased investment in
youth programs, education, and job opportunities for at-risk
individuals.
It doesn't help you say that there is a crime wave across
America. Every city has to take responsibility, and I realize
that, because people are in pain.
The District's response to any type of crime, whether
violent or not, can be complicated by overlapping jurisdictions
and responsibilities between local and Federal law enforcement.
I want to find a smoother way of finding that common ground
that they can work together, along with your distinguished
Member of Congress.
We know that the Federal government's presence in the
District, while providing unique opportunities for
collaboration, also creates challenges. We want to, for
instance, despite the obvious needs for agencies from both
governments to work together and share information vital to
public safety, like the identity of an individual suspected of
committing multiple robberies, communication between the two
agencies or entities can be stymied by legal red tape. Let's
stop that. That is why it is crucial for Congress to ensure
coordination and communication among the multiple agencies that
possess jurisdiction over different areas of the criminal
justice system.
I hope our witnesses today will offer solutions, establish
greater coordination and cooperation between the local and
Federal law enforcement. We must also consider the resources
required to combat violent crime. Getting violent criminals off
the street is what we all should, collectively, want to do.
Wraparound services and helping those who can get out of
the criminal mindset, get them away from this, and you won't
see them again. Let's not eliminate that opportunity. Let's
deal with mental health services that may also be engaged.
Both the local and Federal governments must continue to
allocate sufficient funding and investment in resources for law
enforcement agencies, crime prevention programs, community
initiatives, and as they perceive in the local government, the
need for additional law enforcement officers and public safety.
Helping to strengthen these vital institutions will support the
District's ability to address the underlying causes of violent
crime.
I spoke with the U.S. Attorney for the District of
Columbia, Matthew Graves, who lives in the District, loves this
city, and it will have the same impact on him as any other
person that may be subject to the acts of a violent criminal.
He is using every tool that he has available to address violent
crime, including carjackings, robberies, as well as the flow of
illegal guns in the city from States, from Virginia and
Georgia.
I did not hold up on the inquisition that I gave of him
yesterday in a very lengthy conversation. He assured me that
they are at a point where 90 percent of the individuals
arrested for the most serious violent crimes, which are
homicide, carjacking, rape, and assault with intent to kill,
are being prosecuted.
He also noted that a significant decrease in number of
cases that his office chooses not to prosecute after inheriting
a declined unit--excuse me--a declined rate of 70 percent. He
is working to get rid of that number and to prosecute cases.
So, there is a stitching-together and work, but we must do
a lot to help move forward the crime lab, get it on its feet,
and get it where it is moving cases forward. We can be helpful
in that, and I hope the Congresswoman will allow us to be
helpful or to instruct us how best to do that.
As Democrats continue to offer solution after solution to
make all American communities safer to work, it is important
that we rid the streets of illegal firearms--let's not make
light of that--hold offenders accountable; address the root
causes of violence, such as poverty and housing and civility
and addiction. Republicans have yet to join us on all these
issues. We can't just point the finger; we have got to work on
all of them.
The surge of violent crime in the District is a problem. I
want to hug every victim, but I would like to say I don't want
you to be a victim. I don't want victims in Houston, Texas. I
want to make sure that we get to this point, that we live in
safely in the Nation and in our communities.
So, we can establish stronger partnerships, sharing
information, and as well, making sure that we are together as
not only Washingtonians, that we are now, but as Americans.
Mr. Chair, I'm yielding a second to Congresswoman Eleanor
Holmes Norton.
I'm yielding you a moment just to comment on the record.
You are going to yield to her?
Mr. Biggs. Yes.
Ms. Jackson Lee. All right.
Mr. Biggs. Yes, she will be yielded time.
Ms. Jackson Lee. She will be yielded.
Mr. Biggs. Yes.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I just wanted to make sure. Thank you so
very much. Thank you, Chair and Ranking Member Nadler.
By establishing this ability to work together, my goal here
is to sit here and listen to you with respect, and my mind will
be calculating how we continue to work with you, your mayor,
our law enforcement, your Washingtonians, your excellent Member
of Congress, and the Federal government, to do what we are
supposed to do, which is to ensure the national safety of the
American people.
With that, I yield.
Mr. Biggs. I thank the gentlelady.
Without objection, the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Ivey,
will be able to participant in today's hearing and to question
witnesses if a Member yields him time for that purpose.
The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the Full Committee,
Mr. Jordan, for his opening statement.
Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair.
Crime is out of control, and everybody knows it. More
importantly, everybody knows why. When you defund the police,
and you have prosecutors who go soft on crime, you get more
crime. This doesn't take a genius to figure this out. We have
done field hearings in New York, field hearings in Chicago.
Everybody tells us the same thing. Frankly, when you disparage
the good men and women who put on the uniform, risk their life
every day in our streets, you also get a shortage of police
officers and more crime.
Never forget: Bad guys aren't stupid; they are just bad. If
they know there are less police on the street to stop them and
they are not going to get prosecuted if they do get caught,
they do bad things. That is what we have all got to understand.
This is as basic as it gets.
So, I want to thank our witnesses for being here. I thank
the Chair for this hearing.
We have heard this in New York and Chicago, and we are
going to other cities. We have to change this. We have to begin
to say to our law enforcement, ``Thank you. Thank you for doing
a tough job.'' That is what is at stake here.
Mr. Chair, I thank you again for this hearing and our
witnesses for being here today. I yield back.
Mr. Biggs. I think the gentleman, Mr. Chair, for yield
back.
I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee,
Mr. Nadler, for his opening statement.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Chair, no one should be afraid in their own community.
No one should be afraid to walk to school, to go to their
neighborhood park, or to drive home to their families after a
long day at work.
We all share a commitment to protecting our communities,
and I want to thank our impacted witnesses for appearing today
and for sharing their stories.
The COVID-19 pandemic destabilized many communities
nationwide, exacerbating root causes of violent crime, like
poverty and joblessness. It left many of our young people
without the day structure and mentors to help them succeed.
While some cities have largely recovered from the effects
of the pandemic, Washington, DC, still has more work to do to
improve public safety. Make no mistake, our Republican
colleagues have not called this hearing to help D.C. solve
problems.
They were not looking to solve problems when they called a
hearing on victims of violent crime in Manhattan just two weeks
after its District Attorney charged President Trump with
multiple felonies. They were not looking to solve problems when
they held a roundtable in Chicago mere days before a potential
government shutdown.
So, too, today, as Republicans struggle to elect a new
Speaker, sending the House spiraling into new depths of chaos
and dysfunction. This hearing is yet another attempt to
distract and mislead the American people. We won't fall for it.
The Republican majority offers no policy solutions that
would actually protect residents of Washington, DC, or other
big cities. Instead, they seek only to flood these cities with
more guns, while they work against meaningful legislation to
invest in our communities and support proven public safety
measures.
Remember that, under Democratic control, the House passed
the VICTIM Act, legislation that would provide $100 million a
year to law enforcement to help solve homicides, but 178
Republicans voted against it. That is 178 Republican Members
who opposed the bill to help prosecute murderers.
Fifty-five Republicans opposed the Invest to Protect Act, a
bill that would have authorized $300 million in grants for law
enforcement agencies with fewer than 125 officers.
Now that Republicans are in the majority, not only have we
not taken any of these bills back up, but they are actually
looking to cut funding for dozens of critical grants and
government services that support State and local law
enforcement. How exactly is this supposed to protect victims of
violent crime in Washington, DC?
Meanwhile, D.C. has the highest per capita spending on
police in the country. Also, D.C. has the largest per capita
police force, the most officers per resident of any city in the
country.
So, D.C. is investing in law enforcement, and it will keep
investing in law enforcement, but Democrats know that this is
just part of the answer. Law enforcement, to be effective, it
also has to have the trust of the community it serves. Officers
have to be able to get tips from community members to solve
crimes.
That is why we supported the George Floyd Justice in
Policing Act to fund training, promote accountability, and
strengthen public trust; 212 House Republicans--that is to say,
all of them at the time--voted against it.
Now, communities have fewer homicides when there are fewer
illegal guns. That is why we established a Federal crime for
gun trafficking and straw purchasing in the Bipartisan Safer
Communities Act. It became law over the objections of 193
Republicans who voted against it.
Crime prevention is about much more than law enforcement.
That is why we passed the Break the Cycle of Violence Act to
invest in community violence intervention and job training
programs for 16-24-year-olds; 207 Republicans voted against it.
Time and time again, Democrats have put forth comprehensive
public safety solutions to fund law enforcement, support
community partners, provide job opportunities, and combat gun
trafficking. Republicans have opposed these efforts over and
over; instead, offering hearing after hearing that serve as
nothing more than a press release.
These political stunts are not a solution, but they are all
Republicans have to offer. Don't forget that, when a violent
mob of right-wing extremists stormed the Capitol on January
6th, following encouragement from Donald Trump, few of our
Republican colleagues were worried about violent crime in D.C.
on that day.
When that mob beat police officers, including both Capitol
Police and the D.C. Metropolitan Police who came to provide
support, many of our Republican colleagues downplayed the
brutality that these officers faced.
When Speaker Pelosi brought forth a bill to honor the
Capitol Police and the D.C. Police with Congressional gold
medals, 21 Republicans, including Members of this Committee,
voted against it.
Finally, I want to address a statistic that came up in a
different hearing that Republicans on the Oversight Committee
held, which is also intended to beat up D.C., and also came up
in the Chair's opening statement this morning. They attacked
the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, Matthew Graves,
for declining to charge 67 percent of the arrestees referred to
his office in Fiscal Year 2022, implying that he is soft on
crime.
What they didn't mention is that the rate of charges for
the most serious violent crimes is much higher. In fact, it is
90 percent. Their misleading statistic also ignore the fact
that some cases are not resulting in charges because there
simply isn't enough evidence at the time of arrest to support a
charge. The U.S. Attorney's Office continues to investigate
these cases and may bring charges later, but those charges are
not reflected in that misleading statistic. Further, some
charges are not pursued because the victim simply does not want
to press charges, and the government does not have enough
evidence to proceed without the victim's testimony.
In any case, the U.S. Attorney is a Federal official, and
if we want him to do more, we can give him more resources. That
would require real action from a Republican majority that
cannot even manage the basic functions of government, and that
appears more interested in defunding the FBI, the ATF, and
other Federal law enforcement agencies, than in offering
solutions to communities that need our help.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how the
many solutions that Democrats have offered can improve public
safety in D.C. and across our Nation. Unlike our colleagues, we
are ready to act.
I yield back.
Mr. Biggs. Without objection, all other opening statements
will be included in the record.
Mr. Biggs. I will now introduce today's witnesses.
Detective Gregg Pemberton, thank you for being here.
Mr. Pemberton is a retired D.C. Metropolitan Police
Department detective, who serves as the Chair of the D.C.
Police Union. He represents more than 3,600 officers and has
testified before Congress previously about the challenges that
police officers face on the job.
Are you not retired?
Mr. Pemberton. I'm an active-duty detective, sir. Thank
you.
Mr. Biggs. Well, maybe I got that wrong. I think I did get
that wrong. I apologize.
Mr. Pemberton. I'll take you up on being retired.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Biggs. Sorry. I apologize, Detective.
Mr. Gaynor Jablonski is the owner of the Valor Brewpub, a
veterans-focused bar in Washington, DC. On June 29, 2023, he
was attacked inside his business while his four-year-old son
was present. The assailant pointed a gun at Mr. Jablonski and
his son. D.C. prosecutors offered the assailant a plea deal and
released him, pending sentencing.
Mr. Mitchell Sobolevsky. Mr. Sobolevsky was robbed at
gunpoint in Washington, DC. His assailant, subsequently, had
his sentence reduced and went on to rob two additional people.
Mr. Charles ``Cully'' Stimson is the Deputy Director of the
Edwin Meese Center at the Heritage Foundation. His work focuses
on criminal law and drug control policies, as well as issues
related to national security and armed conflict.
Ms. Myisha Richards is a firefighter and paramedic in
Washington, DC. On July 31, 2020, she was assaulted and beaten
by two people who called 911 for assistance. One of her
attacker's cases was dropped, while the other was recently
sentenced to approximately 60 hours of community service.
Deputy Mayor Lindsey Appiah. Ms. Appiah serves as the
deputy mayor for public safety and justice in Washington, DC.
She previously served as Assistant General Counsel and interim
Director of the D.C. Department of Youth Rehabilitation
Services.
Mr. Thomas Abt is the Chair of the Violent Crime Working
Group and a Senior Fellow at the Council on Criminal Justice.
His research focuses on violent crime and other public safety
problems.
Again, thank you, each of you, for being here today. We
look forward to your testimony. It is important, and I know you
are going to provide us with some real enlightenment today.
We will begin by swearing you in. Would you each please
rise and raise your right hand?
Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best
of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?
Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in
the affirmative.
You may be seated.
Please know that your written testimony will be entered
into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you
summarize your testimony in five minutes. I think that the
light will go yellow right there when you have a minute left.
You might hear me lightly tap right about five minutes, so you
will know to wrap up, if you haven't wrapped up yet.
So, we are going to begin today with Mr. Stimson first. You
are recognized, sir, for five minutes.
STATEMENT OF CHARLES STIMSON
Mr. Stimson. Chair Biggs, Ranking Member Lee, and Members
of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify here
this morning. My name is Charles Stimson. I am a Senior Legal
Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, but I am testifying in my
own capacity to offer solutions.
In the last 30 years, I have practiced criminal law as a
criminal defense lawyer; a prosecutor at the local, State, and
Federal level in four jurisdictions; and a trial judge in the
Navy JAG Corps. I also served as an Assistant United States
Attorney here in D.C. in the U.S. Attorney's Office. I was born
here in the District.
Let me start by saying the obvious. The goal of the
criminal justice system is narrow, but noble. It is to help
solve crime. It is to enforce the criminal laws on the books in
a fair, constitutional and predictable manner. It is not
designed to fix society's ills. We have a murder problem in
this city. If D.C. was a State, it would have the highest
homicide rate per 100,000 residents of all States.
In my testimony, I want to address five quick points.
First, the D.C. City Council's laws and statements by
members of that council have eroded accountability and
contributed to the rise of crime across the city. The council
has proven themselves incapable of creating a revised criminal
code for the District. Their goal was to shrink the system, not
hold criminals accountable. They had a decarceration agenda
from the start. The laws they passed were so radical that they
eliminated all mandatory minimum sentences of all crimes except
first degree murder.
Second, the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office currently has
policies and practices that undermine public safety in the
city. Let me give you two examples.
(1) Guns. The use of guns by career felons is a huge
problem in this city. Every single day, the MPD arrests felons
in possession of firearms. Ask Greg Pemberton. Yet, instead of
prosecuting those felons in Federal District Court under 18
U.S.C. 922(g) where they would receive a mandatory minimum
sentence of at least five years, the Office instead takes those
cases to D.C. Superior Court where they often get probation and
hardly ever prison time. That is a policy choice.
(2) The Office has a 67 percent declination rate as the
Chair mentioned. It was 31 percent in 2015. The same size
office, 330 prosecutors exist in San Diego. Over a 20-year
period that office has had a 22.6 percent declination rate. San
Diego doesn't have a crime problem. D.C. does.
Third, the judges of the D.C. Superior Court had eroded
accountability in the criminal justice system by the
notoriously light sentences across all categories of crime
contributing to a culture of lawlessness in our city. The local
appeals court in the city, the D.C. Court of Appeals, has
issued opinions in the last few years that Congress should
review since they have caused restrictions to be placed on law
enforcement authorities and prosecutors that are far beyond the
requirements of the U.S. Supreme Court in precedent.
Fourth, D.C. Attorney General's Office, or OAG, handles
juvenile crimes, for decades has failed in its mission to hold
violent criminals accountable including murderers and armed
carjackers. Most youths, let me be clear, need to be and are
handled in the juvenile justice system. We need a juvenile
justice system in this country, but there are certain crimes
like murder, armed robbery, armed carjacking, rape, child
sexual abuse, and other heinous crimes that should be handled
in the adult court. Congress should strip the OAG from
prosecuting all crimes and give that to the D.C. U.S.
Attorney's Office.
Finally, the D.C. Crime Lab's loss of its certification or
suspension of its certification is emblematic of D.C.'s
dysfunctional government as a whole. Opened in 2012 at the cost
of $210 million, the Crime Lab has had problems from the
beginning. The lab had its accreditation suspended in 2021, so
the U.S. Attorney's Office had to use other labs. If the lab
gets its accreditation back next year, there is no guarantee it
won't lose it again. It is time to solve the problem and offer
a solution. Congress should Federalize the lab and give it to
the FBI, DEA, and ATF which would then handle all DNA,
firearms, fingerprint, and other forensic evidence requests
from the D.C.'s U.S. Attorney's Office.
In conclusion, the crime problem here is a man-made
problem. Criminal justice reform is not rocket science. The
vast majority of victims of violent crime in our city are
minorities. They deserve to live in peace. They deserve to
sleep well at night and not worry about their kids getting
shot. They deserve, just like the rest of us, their public
safety privilege in their neighborhoods. Thank you for the
opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Stimson follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Stimson.
Now, we will go to you, Mr. Pemberton. Thank you and I
recognize you for five minutes.
STATEMENT OF GREGG PEMBERTON
Mr. Pemberton. Thank you, sir. Good morning, Members of the
Committee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. As the
Chair of the D.C. Police Union, I speak on behalf of
approximately 3,000 sworn police officers, detectives, and
sergeants who serve the District of Columbia as members of the
Metropolitan Police Department. I am a Detective Grade 1. I
have worked for the city for 18 years. I take great pride in
serving the city.
Much of my testimony here today will be a reiteration of
testimony I provided to the House Oversight Committee seven
months ago. Unfortunately, since that hearing, crime rates in
the District of Columbia have only continued to skyrocket. This
testimony will focus on issues related to public safety, crime,
and law enforcement, and more specifically, numerous actions by
the D.C. Council to include their rhetoric that has resulted in
a mass exodus of sworn law enforcement officers and exponential
increase violent crime.
Beginning in June 2020, the D.C. Council began introducing
antipolice legislation designed in their own words to ``act
accordingly to bend the arc of justice.'' I would like to
provide a list of just some of the legislation the D.C. Council
would introduce over the course of the next two years: The
Comprehensive Policing Justice Reform Amendment Act, the
Strengthening Oversight and Accountability of Police Amendment
Act, the Revised Criminal Code Amendment Act, Reducing Law
Enforcement Presence in Schools Act, the Law Enforcement
Qualified Immunity Cessation Act, the Law Enforcement Present
Sense Impression Act, the Law Enforcement Vehicular Pursuant
Reform Act, the School Police Incident Oversight and
Accountability Amendment Act, and the White Supremacy in
Policing Prevention Act.
The rhetoric that council members used when speaking
publicly about law enforcement amounted to nothing short of
virulent attacks on all police officers in the District. One
council member even stated in a public hearing,
I know for a fact there are police in the District who are bad
actors and who have been going on without the proper penance.
He also felt the need for Metropolitan police officers to
receive ``some kind of retribution.'' Other council members
bragged about defunding the department or making ``the biggest
reduction to MPD he had ever seen.''
Without delving into the granular details of how terrible
these bills are or how blatantly awful the rhetoric used by the
council was, I can assure the Members of this Committee that
the direct result was a mass exodus of police officers from the
department. To put a finer point on this issue of attrition,
when I took office as head of the police union in April 2020,
our membership reports showed we had 3,626 members of the rank
and file which is all officers, detectives, and sergeants. Our
most recent membership report from October 5, 2023, states we
are down to 3,021. This is a net loss of 605 union members.
Since the beginning of 2020, MPD has lost 1,329 officers,
more than one third of the department. Five hundred and one of
those separations, nearly 40 percent, were resignations,
employees who just walked away from a career with the
Metropolitan Police Department. These dangerously low police
officer staffing levels take away valuable resources from our
assignments, like detectives and investigative personnel, and
impede the department's ability to engage and speak with
victims in a timely manner.
While there is much rhetoric around the concept of the
number of police and the amount of crime, the following facts
are indisputable. Crime stats year to date in the District are
absolutely staggering. Homicides have reached 218, a 38 percent
increase. Carjackings have reached almost 800 or 110 percent
increase. Robberies are up 70 percent. Violent crime overall is
up 40 percent. All crimes are up 28 percent. These statistics I
have mentioned are city-wide. If one parses out the data to the
neighborhood level, some of these communities have grown to
look like war zones.
Over the past 3\1/2\ years, our union has been sounding the
alarm about this problem to anyone within earshot, including
the D.C. City Council. We tried to inform our elected leaders
of the unintended consequences of these policies.
Unfortunately, we were ignored. D.C. residents and business
owners are under siege. Members of Congress are being assaulted
and carjacked. Their Congressional staff members are being
robbed and stabbed. Tourists and visitors, your constituents,
are being targeted and attacked. Yet, the D.C. Council fails to
admit that their policies have played a significant role in
this outcome.
Now, over three years later, we have all seen the results
of D.C. Council's experiments. The empirical data is in, and we
know for certain that their efforts have been an abject
failure, resulting in thousands more victims of crime in the
city. The lasting impacts of these horrible policies will not
be fully realized for some time and the efforts to repair the
damage done could take decades without swift and thoughtful
actions.
If we do not fix the failing policies set in the place by
the D.C. Council that our pushing our officers to leave MPD,
crime will continue to rise and thousands more victims will be
subjected to crime and violence.
The purpose of my testimony here today is to inform the
Committee on its on-going crisis that exists in the District
and to publicly State we are prepared to assist in any way we
can.
Again, I thank you for the opportunity to testify and I
welcome any questions that the Committee may have. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Pemberton follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you for your testimony.
Now, Deputy Mayor Appiah, we recognize you for five
minutes.
STATEMENT OF LINDSEY APPIAH
Ms. Appiah. Good morning, Chair Biggs, Ranking Member
Jackson Lee, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am Lindsey
Appiah, I serve as Deputy Mayor for Public Safety and Justice
for the District of Columbia, a position I was nominated to by
Mayor Muriel Bowser and confirmed by the D.C. Council. Serving
the residents and visitors of the District in this capacity is
the honor of my life.
By way of background, I have served for 11 years in
District government, all which has been in public safety and
justice, including as General Counsel and interim Director of
the D.C. Department of Youth Rehabilitation Services, the
District's juvenile justice agency.
I want to acknowledge the witnesses who are sharing their
perspectives and experiences in the space here, including Ms.
Richards and Mr. Pemberton, who serve in agencies under my
supervision. On behalf of the Mayor and the 700,000 residents
of the District of Columbia, I express gratitude for their
service and appreciate that they are able to be here to share
information on the challenges we are facing in the District.
Percents and numbers provide critical context. However, we can
never lose sight that each statistic on a website read during a
hearing is more than a number. The reality is there are no
victimless crimes. We recognize the harm and trauma many have
experienced, acknowledge our responsibility to respond
hurriedly and urgently and vow to work tirelessly to make our
city safer, stronger, and a place of collective flourishing.
As Deputy Mayor for Public Safety and Justice, I provide
direction, guidance, support, and coordination for the
District's 12 public safety agencies and the D.C. National
Guard, to develop and lead cross-cluster, interagency public
safety initiatives, to improve the quality of life in the
District neighborhoods. The missions of these agencies are
dynamic and complex. Each plays a critical role in the overall
health and functioning of our public safety and justice
ecosystem. We call our system an ecosystem because an ecosystem
is a complex, interconnected system that is dependent on each
part for its help and optimal functioning. Our interdependent
system is centered around prevention, intervention,
enforcement, accountability, and rehabilitation.
Prevention includes those non-law enforcement programs,
services, and strategies aimed at decreasing the incidents of
individuals committing violent crimes and in reducing the
community conditions that lead to high rates of violent crime
in communities in our city. It encompasses our work on
providing coordinated delivery of wrap-around services and
connecting our residents to a community that cares.
Intervention and enforcement are primarily law enforcement
strategies led by MPD. MPD does, currently, have the lowest
force strength it has had since 1999. We are making investments
to ensure that MPD can recruit and retain officers while also
making investments in technology that will enhance our
abilities to efficiently and effectively solve cases and bring
much needed and deserved justice for victims in our city.
Accountability includes the criminal justice system which
we recognize is vital. Holding people appropriately
accountability for their behaviors is critical to future
determent. Currently, the D.C. Superior Court has 11 judicial
vacancies.
Our ecosystem has many pain and pressure points, but the
District is investing significant resources into a multi-
pronged public safety approach that invests in law enforcement,
prevention efforts, youth programming, reentry, and
rehabilitation.
Another complexity is the uniqueness of the District's
criminal justice system's structure, one that is a mix of
local, Federal, and independent agencies, most of which are not
under the authority of the mayor. We need all our colleagues in
these agencies to match the commitment in the District
government to not just combat crime, but to approach the work
with the belief that we can prevent the next crime and prevent
someone else from becoming a victim.
Mayor Bower has also maintained we have to have a policy
environment that supports appropriate accountability. In the
District, we are leaders in systemic reform. This is certainly
true in the criminal justice space where we lead in pushing
bounds of what is possible to achieve equal justice for all
under the law. We can and should be proud of our progress, but
we must not be so proud that we are unwilling to critically
evaluate our reforms and adjust when unintended consequences
are leading to harmful outcomes which is why in May, Mayor
Bowser sent to the Council and introduced the Safer, Stronger
Amendment Act of 2023, a common sense set of policy proposals
aimed at providing additional tools across our system to combat
crime. The D.C. Council recognized this as law and passed the
Prioritizing Public Safety Emergency Amendment Act which
incorporates several provisions from the Safer, Stronger Act.
We know more must be done and I echo what the mayor
testified in May. Our public safety agencies here in D.C. and
across the country need the support of Congress. I am happy to
answer questions about more ways that Congress can help to
support all the efforts that we described in D.C. government to
actually lower crime in the District. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Appiah follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you, Deputy Mayor.
Now, the Chair recognizes Mr. Abt for your five minutes.
STATEMENT OF THOMAS ABT
Mr. Abt. Chair Biggs, Ranking Member Jackson Lee, and
Members of the Subcommittee, I am Thomas Abt, Founding Director
of the Center for the Study and Practice of Violence Reduction,
also known as the Violence Reduction Center or VRC, located at
the University of Maryland, College Park.
VRC's mission is simple. We seek to save lives by stopping
violence using science. Thank you for the opportunity to speak
before you today on Victims of Violent Crime in the District of
Columbia. This issue is personally and professionally important
to me. I live here in the District. I was first exposed to
violence while teaching at Roosevelt High School where one of
my students was shot and killed. I fought crime in courtrooms
in New York City while working as a local prosecutor. I helped
start antiviolence initiatives as a senior Federal and State
government official. Most recently, I have studied the issue of
violent crime while working in academia.
Violent crime in the United States should not be a partisan
issue. In the wake of the corona virus pandemic violence surged
around the Nation. It rose in urban, suburban, and rural areas.
It rose in Red States and in Blue States. It rose in cities run
by Republicans and in those led by Democrats. Recently, rates
of violent crime have started to decline. Again, they are
decreasing in both Red and Blue jurisdictions alike.
While violence is falling in most cities around the
country, that is unfortunately not the case here in the
District. As of this past Tuesday, violent crime is up 40
percent compared with the same time last year and up 30 percent
compared to the same period in 2019 before the pandemic began.
Crime has been falling steeply in the District for the past
30 days, but no one should be satisfied with that. Why is crime
rising here, while falling nationally? We need to acknowledge
that this is a complicated question that is hard to answer with
certainty. Nationally, our best answer is that violence surged
during the pandemic due to the pandemic, unrest following the
murder of George Floyd, and a massive surge in legal gun sales.
As we get farther from those factors, violence across the
country seems to be slowing.
Locally, we need to understand that Washington, DC, is
unique. The Metropolitan Police Department is one of more than
20 law enforcement agencies operating in the jurisdiction.
Prosecution is split between the U.S. Attorney's Office and the
Office of the Attorney General. Judges are appointed by the
President and confirmed by the Senate. There is no other
jurisdiction in the Nation that is jointly administered in this
way.
If there is one thing I know after more than 25 years in
this field is this, reducing crime and violence is a team
sport. If individual players do not play well together, the
team will not succeed. Collaboration is key. Collaborating is
hard in any jurisdiction, but it is especially hard here in the
District due to its unusual local-Federal structure. That is no
excuse. The District can and should do better in communicating,
collaborating, and executing its antivio-lence strategies. It
is not easy, however, and Congress can help the city in several
Congressional ways. I will mention just a few here.
Every criminal justice system requires the sharing of the
information of function. Here in the District, however, the
Privacy Act of 1974 prohibits Federal agencies from disclosing
critical information to local agencies. Congress could amend
the Privacy Act to enable the effective sharing of information.
By the start of 2024, the District's Crime Lab will have been
without accreditation for nearly three years. The city needs
and deserves a first-rate lab. Congress could support
accreditation by appropriating funding for the lab and for
external testing in the interim.
The District, as you heard, is currently struggling with
numerous judicial vacancies. Congress could pass the District
of Columbia Courts of Judicial Vacancy Reduction Act and apply
a 60-day Congressional review period to D.C. nominees and
remove the requirement that the Senate hold hearings and vote
on these nominations.
None of these actions are likely to garner headlines, but
they would make a difference in terms of safety for D.C.
residents. They are all nonpartisan and things that the Members
of both parties should be able to agree on. More broadly, just
over 1\1/2\ years ago when rates of violent crime across the
country were at their peak, I urged this Committee to put aside
partisanship and support $6 billion in Federal funding for
evidence informed antiviolence strategies carried out by local,
community-based organizations, and local law enforcement
agencies. That funding and those strategies are still sorely
needed today in the District and around the Nation.
Then is now, and you must remember that when it comes to
violent crime, it is about solving a deadly serious problem,
not winning an abstract argument. It is about emphasizing
evidence over ideology, and it is about bringing people
together, not pulling them apart. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Abt follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Abt, for your testimony.
Now, the Chair recognizes Mr. Sobolevsky for your five
minutes.
STATEMENT OF MITCHELL SOBOLEVSKY
Mr. Sobolevsky. Thank you, Chair Biggs and Ranking Member
Jackson Lee for the opportunity to address the Subcommittee
today.
While this didn't occur in D.C., I would first like to
honor and recognize my father-in-law, who was shot and killed
in Jacksonville, Florida, on December 4, 2022.
I am going to discuss my experience though, as a victim of
violent crime in the District of Columbia. On December 16,
2020, I made a series of mistakes that almost cost me my life.
Some may say it is victim blaming, but the reality is crime
exists. If you are not careful in violent cities like D.C., you
may end up just as another statistic.
Shortly after 5 p.m. on December 16th, I left my apartment
on N Street in Shaw, just a short walk from the White House. I
was headed to get groceries and I did not realize that I would
soon face a loaded barrel. Just as I began walking, I noticed a
man acting suspiciously. He was looking over at me across the
block and I told myself nothing was wrong and that nothing bad
was going to happen to me. After all, the street was busy. What
could go wrong?
I turned down the block and I headed toward the grocery
store, and I checked behind and there he was, still eyeing me.
He followed in my direction. Alarmed, I noticed a couple
walking just behind me and behind them, the would-be criminal.
I thought to myself, don't worry, there are people right behind
me. It is OK. A few moments passed and I looked again and the
couple is nowhere to be seen and the man is quickly
approaching. Before I could think, he was next to me asking for
money. I politely said no and kept walking without realizing he
had pulled a gun. The criminal stepped in front of me and said,
you know what it is, before aiming a pistol at my face and
pressing it against my forehead. I almost didn't believe it,
but then reality set in, and I thought I was going to lose my
life to a criminal on the street. I will never forget our
interaction line by line. He told me, ``do what I say and you
ain't going to die tonight.'' All I could hear was you are
going to die tonight. Then my mom would have to come down to
D.C. to identify my body on some cold street in Washington, DC.
I remember looking into his eyes and seeing no life, no
thought, no empathy, just evil. During the entire interaction
where he demanded property after property from me, his finger
laid on the trigger while the pistol pointed directly at my
head. I, fortunately, concealed my phone. While I was foolish
not to hand it over, it expedited my ability to call for help.
I remember the last words out of his mouth muffled by his COVID
mask, ``all right, you did good tonight. You ain't gonna die.''
I thought well, this is where he shoots me. He stood me up and
told me to walk and I did. After a few steps, I turned around
and I could see him start to run. I repeatedly told myself,
Mitchell, you have your phone, call 911. I took cover behind a
parked cover and called exactly who you would want to respond
in that situation, the police. Within minutes squad cars lined
on 10th and N. I will never forget seeing the siren lights come
and thanking God for the police. A young female officer
responded immediately, and I knew I was safe and that my life
was spared.
I am trying to remain in my five minutes. I would like to
note that after the arrest and coordinated with the U.S.
Attorney's Office in D.C. my criminal went to trial. I gladly
and passionately wrote an impact statement. I pleaded with the
judge not to give a lenient sentence as this man would commit
worse crimes than what he did to me. The judge proceeded to
give my criminal 24 months and suspended a year of his sentence
because the judge believed his judgment was still forming. This
light sentence was given despite my criminal robbing six
victims and two businesses. That is right. One year for
multiple armed robberies. Within weeks of my criminal's
release, he would go on to rob two more people at gunpoint. I
would only find this out because I was reading the D.C. weekly
arrests. We will never be able to eradicate violent crime
completely, but we can take action to ensure that it happens
less frequently.
Today, D.C. has the highest violent homicides in almost 20
years. It is short 400 police officers with the average
homicide suspect having 11 prior arrests.
I implore the Subcommittee to understand that policing,
prosecuting, and most importantly, incarceration works. Violent
crimes should not be dealt with lightly. How many more stories
do we have to read about entirely preventable tragedies? Thank
you. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Sobolevsky follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Sobolevsky for your compelling
testimony. I appreciate you being here.
Mr. Jablonski, I understand you have a video that you wish
to show?
Mr. Jablonski. Yes, please.
Mr. Biggs. I recognize Mr. Jablonski for his five minutes,
and we will show that video to begin.
[Video played.]
STATEMENT OF GAYNOR JABLONSKI
Mr. Jablonski. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me, Mr.
Chair.
As horrific as that video is, what happened after was even
worse. He was arrested. We found out he was a Door Dash driver
and for no reason why he acted that way. Within 10 days of him
being arrested, after numerous conversations with the DA Office
saying that I would do anything they needed to do not to plea
this down, there were numerous eyewitnesses. There is a loaded
nine-millimeter. It is kind of hard see there that this was
pointed at my son. Not only was it loaded, but there was one in
the chamber. When I knocked it out of his pants, luckily it
didn't go off. It could have killed someone.
The DA told me that they had to take him to account their
resources and my resources and that they would plead this down
to an attempted assault with a dangerous weapon and illegal
possession of a firearm. When I challenged them as to why they
would do that, and how does that take into account the
endangerment of a minor, I was told that D.C. does not have a
law for the endan-germent of a minor.
After all that, I asked OK, well, ``what is the sentencing
guidelines you are asking?'' Twelve to 18 months. I went to the
sentencing date. He was released on his own recognizance
basically. Went to the sentencing date. Made a victim impact
statement and without a doubt in my mind if I didn't do that,
his attorney was asking for divergence, and he probably would
have been released.
So, out of this entire situation, I now have bad publicity
for my own business because people now worry there is somebody
on the street walking around with a gun. This is at 2:30 in the
afternoon. People are now telling me I am hesitating about
ordering from Door Dash which maybe hurts Door Dash, but
ultimately hurts the small businesses that support--helped
through Door Dash. Then on top of everything else, he gets
eight months and I am left explaining to my five-year-old that
why I had to fight this man and my five-year-old tells me when
I drop him off at school every day be safe.
I understand I was born here. Been numerous--I have been in
the bar industry for 25 years. I have seen the craziest things
you can imagine. In the last 2-3 years, the brazenness of the
violent acts that are going on in the city, but just around, in
general, have gotten to the point where it is ridiculous. Now
that I have been through the whole process from start to
finish, you could enact whatever law you want. We could have a
thousand new laws. We could have a thousand new police
officers. You could throw millions at this DA's office. If
nobody is going to do their job and prosecute and hold people
accountable, what is the point?
Thank you and I look forward to any questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Jablonsky follows:]
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Jablonski for your testimony. The
Chair recognizes Ms. Richards for your five minutes.
STATEMENT OF MYISHA RICHARDS
Ms. Richards. Good morning. My name is Myisha Richards and
I'm a firefighter paramedic with D.C. Fire and EMS. I've been
in the Fire Service since 2009 and I began as a volunteer and
loved every minute of my duties. My dream was to become a
firefighter paramedic in the Nation's capital. I spent
countless hours perfecting my craft in hopes of being able to
serve the citizens of Washington, DC. My hard work finally paid
off and I was hired on October 16, 2017.
When I graduated from the academy, I was assigned to Engine
32 in Ward 8. I loved every minute while working in the
community and being able to help the citizens in any way that I
can. One of my favorite things to do is to engage with the
community and talk with the MPD officers. At times we played
basketball together with neighborhood kids when we had some
down time.
On July 31, 2020, my partner and I responded to a 9-1-1
call for a 90-year-old female in respiratory distress. When I
arrived on scene, we had to get fully dressed from head to toe
and full COVID PPE before we can enter the home.
In the academy they teach us that scene safety is one of
the most important things on a call. As a provider you have to
be safe, you have to make sure your partner's safe to ensure
proper and safe patient care.
Once we entered, we found two females and one male in a
back bedroom. The female caller was irate and stated we took
too long and did not care about COVID--and that she did not
care about COVID. The gentleman standing in the corner told her
to allow us to do our job. The two subjects then began to fight
each other.
My partner and I did what we were trained to do, which is
get out of the house and call a 1033 code to bring the police
for help. I made it to the landing of the steps, reached for my
radio, and before I could call the 1033 code, both females
jumped over the banister onto the landing and began to punch
and kick me while pulling my hair and holding my head down in
place, naturally making the radio fall down the flight of
steps. The man on scene stood holding my partner at the top of
the stairs. Two minutes went by before I was able to get free
and get my radio to call for help.
I suffered a severe concussion and had a laceration above
my eye which required stitches. These were the physical wounds
that in time healed, however the mental impact will last a
lifetime.
Since this event I have been to the Center of Excellence,
which is a rehab and mental health facility for firefighters.
I'm having to learn how to live with PTSD and still do the job
I love, without being anxious and fearing for the worst on
every call.
Prior to 2020, I felt like MPD's response to these routine
medical calls in Ward 8 more. Their police presence was all
that was needed to ensure our safety and to make sure the
citizens were safe and able to get care without any violent
interruptions. I feel safer on the job when I know MPD is
either there or just a quick call away. We as a department are
grateful for them especially when they're looking out for us on
these streets. The amounts of assaults, violence, and shootings
in the District are skyrocketing and it makes me feel less
safe, especially after my incident.
Just this week my coworkers can be heard screaming over the
radio for a 1033 because an agitated patient tried to climb
into the driver's compartment, maybe even trying to steal the
ambulance. During all this chaos a gunshot wound victim was
dropped off in the same place.
This year, I received a phone call from the DA telling me
nothing was going to happen to the two women who assaulted me.
I was told that one of the women will receive community service
not because of what she did to me, but because while in the
process of prosecuting her for this crime she picked up
additional charges. The other woman's charge would be dropped.
I love this city, but we need to do better, and our first
responders need to feel safe. The Nation's Capital is no longer
a place where firefighters and EMS workers can render care to
those in need without worrying of becoming a patient
themselves. Several times a month we are on calls running from
nearby gunshots or having a stage prior to getting a violent--
prior to going into a violent scene because we are waiting for
police officers to respond.
When I took the oath and was sworn in to be a firefighter
paramedic in Washington, DC, I was fully prepared and aware the
possibility of dying in a fire could become a reality at any
moment, however I did not expect that while helping someone
during their most vulnerable time and need during a medical
emergency that the tables could quickly turn on me and I could
become a victim of an assault and lose my life trying to save
another.
In closing I want to thank all of you for this opportunity
to share my story in hopes to find a solution to this
detrimental uptick in violence and crime we have in the
Nation's Capital and that our first responders are being looked
out for, so we can look out for the citizens of Washington, DC,
who need our help.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Richards follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Ms. Richards, for your testimony.
The Chair recognizes now Mr. Gaetz for his five minutes of
questions.
Mr. Gaetz. Madam Deputy Mayor, are people more or less safe
this year compared to last year in Washington, DC?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. I can't say whether they're more or
less safe. I can say that crime is up and so long as anyone
doesn't feel safe, then that's an issue for us.
Mr. Gaetz. Would higher crime rates be one of the more
important indicators as to whether or not people are more or
less safe?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. It would be an indicator as to whether
or not people feel more or less safe, so it's something that we
certainly look at in determining that.
Mr. Gaetz. I don't know. I think people could feel unsafe
even if they were safe, but this doesn't seem to be a delusion,
right? The cases of sexual assault rose 111 percent over the
course of a year; homicides increased by 38 percent; motor
vehicle thefts doubled, increasing 106 percent; instances of
arson, over 125 percent; and carjackings by 55 percent. Why do
you think that is?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. There's a host of complex reasons why
that's the case. You've heard some. We talk about our
ecosystem, policy reasons, right? There are--
Mr. Gaetz. Do you think the softening of crime policies is
one reason?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. I don't know that I would say soft on
crime policies. What I would say is that there's a number of
reforms in policy that have been made in the District that we
believe need to be adjusted, which is why there's been a number
of proposals from the mayor, legislation passed by the council
to take a look at where we're getting the type of impact that
we don't want.
Mr. Gaetz. I agree with Mr. Abt that the only way this
works is with collaboration. So, what do you think you would
highlight as the main policy change that the mayor has proposed
that could maybe put some downward pressure on this rising
violent crime?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Sure. There's a host of proposals that
the mayor made related to penalty enhancements, to aligning
penalties for gun crimes with Federal penalties. So, there's
those, but there's also those on information sharing--
Mr. Gaetz. So, hold on. Let's start with those, though. The
underlying premise is that enhanced punishment can have a
deterrent effect and reduce crime, right?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. We absolutely agree with that, yes.
Accountability is an important part of crime deterrence.
Mr. Gaetz. I am definitely not blaming you for this because
it is not your job, but when we look at the fact that the
prosecutor over the D.C. area has doubled their declinations,
like from your standpoint on the front lines in city government
do you think that doubling the number of declinations goes in
the right direction or the wrong direction?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. I would say that what we believe is
that if MPD has made arrests, that people need to be held
appropriately accountable. We always maintain that--
Mr. Gaetz. It seems like the underlying premise of
appropriately accountable is to have penalty enhancements
that--it is not as if you think people are being held too
accountable, it is that they are not being held accountable
enough, right?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. There, absolutely, needs to be
accountability for those who engage in violent crime.
Mr. Gaetz. I think Ms. Richards would probably agree with
that.
Your testimony was harrowing, but it really concerned me
that people might not be willing to do these life-saving,
critically important jobs like firefighting and EMS if they
feel like they are going into a war zone. You gave testimony
about what it was like to wait on the police as you are trying
to save people's lives and help them. Is there anything you
would like to add to that?
Ms. Richards. That's the State that we're in right now.
I've waited in excess of 20 minutes before trying to get MPD on
scene for a violent call.
Mr. Gaetz. What do you do for 20 minutes?
Ms. Richards. We stage and we wait because at this point,
we're no longer going in--we're not going to those scenes.
Mr. Gaetz. What happens to the people who need your help?
Ms. Richards. So, therefore the citizens are not getting
treated, they can't have our services because it's not safe for
us to go in there.
Mr. Gaetz. That sounds like life or death to me, that
people could actually die because we don't have enough police
to keep even our own first responders safe that want to save
people's lives. Have you been confronted with these types of
life-or-death situations where people can't get the care they
need, because essentially you are waiting for fire power and
cover to be able to go help people?
Ms. Richards. I could say that, yes, there's been times
where we have to wait. Like I said, I've waiting personally
myself in excess of 20 minutes for the MPD to arrive on scene.
Mr. Gaetz. Yes. I would observe, Mr. Chair, that D.C. has
some of the strongest gun control laws in the country, and
increasingly the law-abiding people, the people who want to be
helpful, who want to be good neighbors are constrained by those
gun control laws, and yet the violent criminals are putting Ms.
Richards and all the people who want to do the good work she
does in graver danger. That might be something worthy of some
Federal review. I yield back.
Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields.
The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
At this time, I want to yield to the Ranking Member of the
Full Committee, Mr. Nadler, who will then yield to the District
of Columbia Congresswoman, Eleanor Holmes Norton. I yield to
Mr. Nadler.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Chair, this hearing is not a
serious exercise. My Republican colleagues have shown very
little interest in the welfare of the people of Washington, DC,
and this political stunt is further evidence of that.
Rather than asking questions myself I would like to yield
my time to the person who has dedicated her life to
representing the Nation's Capital and its residence, the
gentlewoman from Washington, DC, Ms. Norton.
Mr. Biggs. I just want to--just kind of a personal
clarification. So, whose time--Mr. Nadler's? It is Mr. Nadler's
time is going to Ms. Norton? OK. Thank you.
Ms. Norton, you are recognized.
Ms. Norton. Thank you and I thank my good friend for
yielding.
As the only Member of Congress elected by the nearly
700,000 District of Columbia residents, I appreciate the
opportunity to weigh on this Committee for the purposes of this
hearing.
I am deeply saddened that some of the witnesses for this
hearing were victims of crime in the District, however while
the Federal government controls much of D.C.'s criminal justice
system, to the extent that this hearing focuses on D.C.'s local
laws and local government, it violates the purposes of the D.C.
Home Rule Act, which is to, among other things, and I am
quoting,
Grant the inhabitants of the District of Columbia powers of
local self-government and relieve the Congress of the burden of
legislating upon essentially local district matters.
While Congress has Constitutional authority to legislate on
local D.C. matters, it does not have a Constitutional duty to
do so. Instead, legislating on local D.C. matters is a choice.
James Madison said in Federalist 43 about the residents of the
District, and I'm quoting,
A municipal legislature for the local purposes derived from
their own suffrages will of course be allowed them.
The Supreme Court has held that Congress may delegate,
quote, ``full legislative power to D.C. on local D.C.
matters.'' D.C.'s local legislature, the D.C. Council, has 13
members. The members are elected by D.C. residents. If D.C.
residents do not like the laws the council adopts, they can
vote the members out of office. That is called democracy.
Congress has 535 voting members. The members are elected by
residents of States. None are elected by or accountable to D.C.
residents. If D.C. residents do not like the laws Congress
adopts, they cannot vote the members out of office.
The Revolutionary War was fought to give consent to the
governed and to end taxation without representation, yet D.C.
residents cannot consent to any action taken by Congress
whether on national or local D.C. matters and pay full Federal
taxes. Indeed, D.C. residents pay more Federal taxes per capita
than any State and more local Federal taxes than 19 States.
D.C. residents, a majority of whom are Black and Brown, are
capable and worthy of governing themselves.
If House Republicans cared about Democratic principles or
local D.C. residents, they would bring my D.C. Statehood Bill,
which would give D.C. residents voting representation in
Congress and full local self-government to the floor.
Congress has the Constitutional authority to admit the
State of Washington, DC, if simply that is the will. I yield
back and I thank the chairman.
Mr. Biggs. The gentlelady yields back.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr.
Kiley.
Mr. Kiley. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We have heard testimony today about a culture of
lawlessness in Washington, DC, and how crime rates are
absolutely staggering. This is, of course, sadly true in other
places across the United States: In Manhattan, in Chicago, in
San Francisco, and Los Angeles. D.C. is a particularly
compelling case study because of the unique nature of the
District as a sort of self-contained jurisdiction. It allows us
to really parse the different elements of that culture of
lawlessness and how they have become mutually reinforcing in a
way that has caused crime to spiral out of control.
Specifically, those elements would be the laws, police,
prosecutors, and judges.
So, starting first with the laws, Detective Pemberton, you
represent 3,000 sworn officers, is that right?
Mr. Pemberton. Yes, sir. Excuse me. Yes, sir, that's
correct.
Mr. Kiley. Thank you for your service and for all of them
for the incredibly important and dangerous work that they do on
a daily basis.
You described in your testimony a spate of antipolice
legislation such as the Comprehensive Policing and Justice
Reform Act of 2020, the Revised Criminal Code Amendment Act of
2021, the Reducing Law Enforcement Presence in Schools Act of
2021. How would you summarize the overall effect of this
legislation on criminal penalties in the District?
Mr. Pemberton. Well, it's very wide-reaching. So, the first
thing I would point to is the staffing levels and the morale of
the police department. As I stated in my testimony, I think
we're down somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 police officers
from where we were just before this legislation was introduced.
The legislation is designed to hamper and hamstring police
officers and make it absolutely difficult for them to do their
jobs. In addition to that, it exposes them to liability of
administrative, civil, and even criminal penalties even when
they go out and do their job properly, responsibly, and
constitutionally.
So, one major aspect of that is that people will leave an
agency; they don't want to work under those sorts of onerous
provisions. The other part of it is that it has a chilling
effect, that there are still obviously thousands of police
officers that have not left the agency, but it now--there's a
second guessing as to whether or not they want to engage in the
positive proactive policing that they used to engage, in which,
was so effective at keeping these crime rates low. So, those
are the two major aspects of what is happening, at least to the
rank and file.
As you stated in your question, the effects go into the
entire ecosystem, as the deputy mayor mentioned.
Mr. Kiley. That is right.
Mr. Pemberton. Every aspect of the criminal justice system
in D.C. is broken and the reason it is broken is because of
these laws that the D.C. Council--
Mr. Kiley. So, that actually answers my next question. So,
you have this lowering of penalties across the board. Then even
where penalties exist you still have someone who needs to get
caught to be subject to those penalties. The defunding of
police and the antipolice rhetoric from politicians from here
has decreased that presence in the city, is that right?
Mr. Pemberton. That's absolutely right. So, when we talk
about this ecosystem of criminal justice, the front end of
that, the intake system is police officers putting handcuffs on
people who they have probable cause to believe committed a
crime. If we're not doing that, a lot of the stuff downstream
of that: Prosecutions, judges--
Mr. Kiley. Yes.
Mr. Pemberton. --supervision, that has very little effect
because the number of people that we're actually arresting and
bringing in--
Mr. Kiley. That is right. Then when even we go downstream--
Mr. Stimson, you used to work for the Chief Prosecutor here--
how do the prosecutions rates here compare to other
jurisdictions?
Mr. Stimson. So, I've worked in four DA Offices and here
this is the highest declination rate of any of those four DA
Offices. As I said in my written testimony and in my oral
statement, take two like-sized city DA Offices. San Diego has
330 DAs. The U.S. Attorney's Office has 330 DAs. As was just
mentioned, there are 700,000 residents here in the District,
which is about 2,000-and-some persons per prosecutor.
San Diego has 3.2 million residents in the county. So those
prosecutors each serve about 9,000-plus residents, yet the San
Diego DA's Office in the last 20 years has a 22.6-percent
declination rate and a 77-percent issuance rate of charges. So,
San Diego doesn't have a crime problem. I would respectfully
disagree with one of the other witnesses and those who've
mentioned that crime only spiked during COVID. It actually
started going up in 2016 in cities with soft on crime
prosecutors.
Mr. Kiley. Sure. Then you also testified as to how the
judges in this district tend to have much lighter sentencing
than in other jurisdictions as well. So, at each stage of it
you have an unavailability of serious penalties. You have a
limited police presence because of defunding, and other
antipolice policies. You have a very high declination rate by
the prosecutor. Then even when people are prosecuted, very
light sentences for the judges.
So, that culture of lawlessness has contributed to this
jurisdiction having a higher murder rate than anywhere else in
the country and these absolutely staggering crimes statistics
that we heard.
Now, I am out of time, but just as a question, Detective
Pemberton, I think that perhaps the biggest thing that we can
do to change that culture of lawlessness is to create a new
level of support for law enforcement, to recruit more folks
into the profession, to improve morale. Do you have thoughts on
how we can do that?
Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired, but, Detective
Pemberton, you may respond.
Mr. Pemberton. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Yes, that's right. So, these--particularly when we're
talking about these bills passed by the city council, the
Comprehensive Policing and Justice Reform Act, this is
absolutely detrimental to the hiring and the attrition rates of
the Metropolitan Police Department. Without getting rid of at
least some of the provisions within that bill it's going to be
impossible for us to staff the police departments at the level
that meets the demand that's out there for citizens who are
requesting police services.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Let me first ask to put into the record the information
about Washington being No. 1 in police per capita and the
amount of money spent on crime.
Mr. Biggs. Without objection.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Let me again--the stories were
horrific. Crime victims--there should be zero tolerance and we
all have to come together to make that happen.
To Mr. Jablonski, to watch your little one--I know what
that means to you. Thank you for your courage to come here
today, sir. Thank you.
Mr. Jablonski. Thank you, Congresswoman.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Let me try to get our hands
around what we need to do. So, let me just get right to the
heart of things, Ms. Appiah. What is the District doing to
address violent crime? What is the District doing to address
carjackings?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Sure. So, we describe the ecosystem
because that's important. So, the District's making investments
in all those spaces. The first is prevention. I agree with Mr.
Pemberton that obviously enforcement is important, but to us--I
have a public health background. Preventing crime is the best
way to have less victims.
So, there's been significant investments made in violence
intervention and prevention, which we're grateful for the
investments that were made through the American Rescue Plan Act
which allowed us to put funds into violence interruption
services and also victim services, a host that--the District
grants $100 million worth of grants to providers, community-
based--
Ms. Jackson Lee. You are not thwarting or stopping your
police from engaging right on the streets arresting and
bringing in carjackers?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct. There are a number of
policing strategies. All these have to work together.
Ms. Jackson Lee. You are respecting the police, for them to
do their job?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Mayor Bowser is--that you will find no
mayor who is more supportive of the police than Mayor Bowser.
Ms. Jackson Lee. What is the greatest challenge for the
District's ability to respond to violent crime?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. One of them is the complexities of our
Federal-local system. You heard Mr. Abt describe information
sharing. We know that even law enforcement strategies like
focused deterrence or otherwise work when the entities all work
together. We don't have one Governor--
[Simultaneous speaking.]
Ms. Jackson Lee. --is making note of that right now. There
is no reason there should not be information sharing.
Let me move quickly, if you don't mind.
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Yes.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I have got a short period of time. You
enacted emergency legislation in July that changed the
landscape of prosecutions. Do you want to just let us know how
that is happening? Is that the same legislation as the
Prioritizing Public Safety Emergency Amendment?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. So, I want to hold up that this is the
law.
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Can you just give us a snippet? I have got
so many other questions I want to ask Mr. Abt.
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Yes, it increases the presumption for
pretrial detention which has led to more people being held
pretrial. It increases penalty for things like unlawful
discharge of a fireman. There are things related to pretrial
detention for juveniles, which we know is an issue. There also
was a companion bill that clarifies the ability of law
enforcement to pursue in a manner consistent with safe policy.
Ms. Jackson Lee. OK. Does the declination rate--is that
coming down? Because the U.S. Attorney said it is.
Deputy Mayor Appiah. I can't speak on behalf of the U.S.
Attorney, but we are seeing more holds for those with gun
crimes. So, we can make a--I can't say causation, but certainly
a correlation.
Ms. Jackson Lee. So, you have strong gun laws, but your
surrounding neighbors don't. So, the issue is you don't block
any citizen from having their guns--
Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. --legal guns, but what you are seeing is
gun trafficking on the street?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. How does that happen?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. So, we have significant gun
trafficking from our neighbors in Virginia, Maryland, North
Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. That is where the
illegal flow of guns into the District is. So, working with our
partners like ATF and FBI and our Federal partners is deeply
important to help us stop gun trafficking and the flow of--
[Simultaneous speaking.]
Ms. Jackson Lee. So, you are committed to fighting gun
trafficking and carjacking, things that and robberies on the
street?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Absolutely. Without equivocation we
are.
Ms. Jackson Lee. So, the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearm, and
FBI, for those acronyms may not be familiar, they can do a lot
more or you can work a lot more with them, is that my
understanding?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Abt, let me first, very quickly
indicate that correction of Mr. Stimson. There is no mandatory
minimum for gun possession in the Federal laws, but there is a
mandatory minimum in D.C. They are not weak on crime in many
instances, but they do have to help their victims and stop
that. Mr. Abt, why don't you explore your COVID pandemic
concept? Because I agree with you. Though you say that crime
here is huge, but just explain that concept about the surge of
crime across America.
Mr. Abt. Sure.
Mr. Biggs. The gentlewoman's time is expired, but you can
answer the question, Mr. Abt.
Ms. Jackson Lee. You may answer the question. Thank you.
Mr. Abt. Sure. So, in 2020 we had one of the largest
single-year increases in homicide across the country that we've
ever seen, approximately 28 percent. As I said, no jurisdiction
or almost no jurisdiction was spared regardless of political
affiliation.
Violent crime rose again the following year. It was flat in
1922 and is now slightly coming down, thankfully. As I said,
most experts agree on generally three reasons for this surge in
crime, although Mr. Stimson is correct that there was a surge
in crime in 2016 as well. Focusing on this 2020 surge, it was
the pandemic itself, unrest following the murder of George
Floyd, and this massive surge in gun sales. All three of these
things together contributed to pushing the rates higher. As we
get farther from that they seem to be decreasing.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses. Thank you for your presence
here.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr.
Tiffany.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Abt, are you saying the lockdowns did not
work?
Mr. Abt. I'm not sure--
Mr. Tiffany. The lockdowns led to higher crime is what I
heard you say.
Mr. Abt. No, I certainly did not say that, Congressman. Can
you repeat the question?
Mr. Tiffany. You said during the COVID lockdowns that crime
went up in 2020.
Mr. Abt. During the pandemic they went up, yes.
Mr. Tiffany. So, the American people were locked down. I
came here in a--I was sworn in here on May 19, 2020. I couldn't
believe I could drive from the suburbs of Virginia to this
location right here in about five minutes. Nobody was there.
You said violent crime went up. So, didn't the COVID
lockdowns--weren't they part of the contributing factor?
Mr. Abt. I think that's an inappropriate connection between
these two. I can't speak to that.
Mr. Tiffany. Deputy mayor, D.C. Council Chair Phil
Mendelson said, ``there is not a crime crisis in Washington,
DC.'' Do you agree with him?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Oxford defines a crisis as a time of
intense difficulty, trouble, or danger, and so I would say that
we find ourselves in an intense time of trouble or danger. So,
I would say there is a crisis anytime someone's a victim of
crime in the District regardless of the number.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Chair, it sounds like we have identified
part of the problem here with the D.C. Council when somebody
will not acknowledge that there is a crisis and--by the very
definition. As the Deputy Mayor said, ``there is a crisis.''
Mr. Pemberton, so we are hearing about guns are the problem
and guns coming from other States are the problem. Are crimes
being prosecuted to their fullest that include guns here in
D.C.? Are the judges giving the fullest sentences they can with
gun crimes?
Mr. Pemberton. No, absolutely not. So, some of the rhetoric
that we hear around crime in the District is that it comes from
illegal guns and that we have to focus on illegal guns, and
that if we find a way to get illegal guns out of the hands of
criminals, crime will come down. That's not necessarily wrong.
Our officers for our unit, I think last year we arrested about
3,100 people for possession of an illegal firearm.
The problem is that even when we're able to get those cases
papered and prosecuted and then a conviction, the average
sentence that judges are handing out right now for that penalty
is six months supervised release, which is zero jail time. That
is the going rate, is what we say, for people who are in
possession of illegal guns.
Mr. Tiffany. Repeat that. Six months?
Mr. Pemberton. Six months of supervised probation. So, that
would be someone who's convicted of being in possession of an
illegal firearm in the District of Columbia. The maximum
penalty is five years under the D.C. Code, however the
penalties that D.C. Superior Court Judges are handing out
regularly are more along the lines of probation only.
Mr. Tiffany. Probation only for a gun crime?
Mr. Pemberton. That's right. Just to make a finer point on
this, it doesn't seem like the city takes those crimes as
seriously as they suggest given the fact that the courts are
not penalizing people who are found convicted of those crimes.
Mr. Tiffany. Was that your experience, Mr. Jablonski?
Mr. Jablonski. Absolutely. If I didn't make that victim
impact statement to the defense's attorney, the defendant's
attorney would have been asking for divergence. I was told by
the DAs afterwards that they were glad that I came because most
likely he would have received divergence.
Mr. Tiffany. Is Victim Services doing their job in D.C.?
Mr. Jablonski. I mean they were very nice and they were
helpful, but there's really--the only thing I wanted is I
wanted to see real justice. I wanted to see something that
showed me that they took into account what happened to me and
my family. What I saw wasn't.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Sobolevsky, is Victim Services doing their
job in Washington, DC?
Mr. Sobolevsky. I'd say they're doing their job. It's hard
to say that the police, the prosecutors, and the judges are
doing their jobs. Maybe the police are out there making
arrests. Prosecutors aren't prosecuting. What going on there?
Judges, they're letting criminals out in the street. My guy was
given 1 year in jail. What did he do within weeks on release?
My father-in-law was murdered by a guy with a rap sheet from
1971. Why are they on the streets?
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Pemberton, have you lost officers to other
jurisdictions around this region?
Mr. Pemberton. Absolutely. Yes, a lot of the officers to
leave have been going to neighboring jurisdictions.
Particularly, what's interesting is Northern Virginia takes a
lot of our members.
Mr. Tiffany. I am going to close with this, Mr. Chair: I am
going to make the case once again, I want this Committee to
come Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to hear the story here. We have
heard it in New York City, Chicago, and now in Washington, DC.
I urge this Committee and the Chair to schedule a hearing in
Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the District attorney said will I
divert some who will go onto kill someone? Absolutely. That is
the problem here in the United States of America, is a soft on
crime attitude.
Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Georgia, Ms.
McBath.
Ms. McBath. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you also, Ranking Member Sheila Jackson Lee. Thank
you for our witnesses today and for all of you that are
witnesses that have suffered these horrific tragedies. You
continue to be inflicted with this trauma every single day. I
am so, so very sorry.
I sit before you today as a mother who has suffered as a
victim of gun violence. I am here because of an epidemic that
has unequivocally and completely just played our country--
plagued our country for just too long.
I have dedicated my time while I have been here in Congress
to reducing gun violence and advocating for commonsense gun
laws to keep our neighborhoods, to keep our families safe, to
keep you safe. Regardless of the city that you call home or the
person representing you in public office, one fact remains
true: We need comprehensive commonsense gun laws to end the
violence that threatens the American people.
As Members of Congress we are tasked with making a genuine
difference in this country and taking steps to reduce violence
by enacting Federal gun laws that keep our families and our
children safe. This Committee along has numerous bills that
will reduce violent crimes in D.C., and across our country once
they are implemented.
We made a historic step in the right direction last
Congress with the passage of the bipartisan Safer Communities
Act which invests $750 million into extreme risk protection
orders to improve crisis intervention and empower our law
enforcement and loved ones. It also invests $250 million in
community-based violence intervention programs to support our
communities that are crying out for our help. The successful
passage of the bipartisan Safer Communities Act is a testament
to our ability to unify in Congress and continue to fulfill our
promise to fight for the safety of every American.
These are our communities, our children, our loved ones,
and gun violence should be a deep personal concern for each and
every one of us here today, including all my colleagues in this
Committee. Following this hearing I would urge that all my
colleagues on both sides of the aisle to turn their concerns
about violence into action. Continue the fight against gun
violence with me and join on my Federal Extreme Risk Protection
Order Act of 2023 so that we can link our actions into words.
Empower loved ones, those who seek the warning signs of
being in crisis first and law enforcement. Help them to help
keep guns away from those who are a danger or at risk to
themselves or hurting others. What truly matters is not which
side of the aisle that we all fall on, but the countless lives
that are lost in this country to unnecessary gun violence every
single day. No mother, no parent, no American should ever
experience the pain of losing a loved one. We must work
together to end the epidemic of gun violence.
Now, investments are being made by the bipartisan Safer
Communities Act that are aimed at prevention. Deputy Mayor
Appiah and Mr. Abt, as we look forward to ways to reduce
violent crime across the country, how will a Federal bill to
authorize Federal extreme risk protection orders contribute to
reducing violent crimes across our country?
Mr. Abt. Thank you for the question. I think if you look at
the research that's been assembled by the RAND Institute,
there's good research showing that extreme risk protection
orders can save lives. They can particularly save lives in
terms of avoiding homicides and there's some evidence that they
can avoid homicides as well. So, I think that those laws and
the support of--that Congress made for those laws in terms of
enacting them in the best ways is a very strong step forward.
Deputy Mayor Appiah. I would say the same thing as Mr. Abt.
The district actually currently--I am Co-Chairing with our D.C.
Council, a working group on how we can better utilize resources
around extreme risk protection orders to keep district
residents more safe.
Ms. McBath. Well, thank you so much. I know that I have
crisscrossed this country fighting to change our dangerous gun
laws and I know that there are many in this room that have also
worked as activists on the ground in the movement to do the
same. No one in this country deserves ever to be affected by
this violent culture that we are living in. I promise you that
my colleagues and I will do whatever we can to keep you safe.
Mr. Biggs. The gentlelady's time has expired.
The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Lee.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Earlier this morning this hearing was referred to as a
political stunt. I would like to begin by asking us all to
remember that we are joined here today by the men and women of
law enforcement, first responders, and the victims of violent
crimes. They deserve our serious consideration of this gravely
important issue.
So, let's start with reality. The number of law enforcement
officers assigned to a region per capita won't stop crime when
law enforcement officers are prevented from doing their jobs by
bad law. The number of prosecutors in a community will not stop
crime when they do not bring cases and they do not enforce the
law. It isn't enough to have judges on the bench when judges
won't follow the rules and won't enforce the laws.
We owe a responsibility to the citizens of Washington, DC,
and the visitors from around the world who come to our Nation's
Capital to keep them safe, and all too often they are here, and
they are the victims of violent crime. They are being
carjacked, they are being assaulted, they are being shot in the
street. We must face the reality of the crime epidemic in
Washington, DC, and do more.
The reason that we are here is plain and it is obvious. It
is the reckless and irresponsible rhetoric and failed policies
of the Democrat Party and the Biden Administration that has
emboldened criminals in cities across America. We owe the
residents here and the visitors to our capital so much more.
As a former Federal prosecutor and judge I will tell you
this: There is one thing that reliably keeps a violent predator
from recidivating, and it is called prison. Do some offenders
deserve second chances? Absolutely. Do murderers, sex
offenders, and rapists need to be out on bond? Do they need
wrap-around services? Do those who are out on conditions of
bond, who violate them deserve another chance? No. They deserve
to be in custody, and they need to remain in custody for the
safety of the citizens of this community.
We need to support the men and women of law enforcement. We
need prosecutors who will enforce the laws. We need judges who
will force--follow the laws and enforce the rules. It is that
simple. What we see here today, the testimony that we have
heard today is the entirely predictable outcome of the reckless
and irresponsible rhetoric and policies of the Democrat Party
who are undermining the men and women of law enforcement and
the rule of law in America.
Mr. Stimson, I would like to start with you. In your prior
testimony you referenced juvenile offenders specifically. I
would like to explore the effects that you believe policies
related to juvenile offenders are having on the crime problem
in D.C., and how we could be doing more to ensure that this
issue is under control.
Mr. Stimson. Well, thank you for your question. I think we
both agree as former prosecutors that we need a juvenile
justice system. That is designed to help rehabilitate those
people who make dumb mistakes when they're young. We believe
most can be rehabilitated. When you do murder, multiple
murders, rapes, carjackings--you heard the Chair mention the
number of carjackings committed this year by juvenile
offenders--and the No. 1 age is 15 here in the District who are
doing armed carjackings.
So, under Title 16, which is a local law here in the
District, the U.S. Attorney's Office can take 16-17-year-olds
and prosecute them as an adult. Many other jurisdictions don't
have that type of shackles and they allow violent criminals who
do murder, rape, robbery, and the rest of it and waive them to
adult court, which is what should happen in this city because
we have a juvenile violent crime problem.
If I could just add, when I was talking about gun
possessions and taking it to Federal court, I said felon in
possession. As you know as a former Federal prosecutor felon in
possession under 1922(g)-922(g) is a mandatory minimum. What
happens in this city is that they charge him with--they charge
them with--in Superior Court they charge them with carrying a
pistol without a license, felon in possession, unregistered
firearm, and unregistered ammunition. They deal away the felon
in possession in Superior Court. They plea to carrying a pistol
without a license. As Pemberton said, ``they get a slap on the
wrist.''
So, when I was a criminal defense attorney I wanted my
client to get the best deal. I want them to be tried in
Superior Court here in the District of Columbia, not Federal
District Court regardless of what the sentence is because
they're going to get a hard sentence in Federal Court.
Ms. Lee. Should those juvenile--
Mr. Biggs. I'm sorry. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Ms. Lee. Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you.
The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms.
Dean.
Ms. Dean. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I thank the Ranking Member Lee also for putting forward
this hearing today.
Thank you all for your testimony. For those who are the
victims of violent crime; I am thinking particularly of your
little boy, my heart goes out to all of you, and I thank you
for telling your stories because your stories are in search of
solutions. That is what this Committee ought to be about,
searching for solutions, not finger pointing at a single DA, or
let's just say it is the entire Biden Administration's fault
that there are violent crimes in this country. We are more
serious than that. We must be more serious than that.
I know that I have cared about the issue of gun violence my
entire adult life and I am here in Congress. It is one of my
most important passions, to make a difference. That is why I am
very proud that last year we did the Safer Communities Act. I
look forward to learning how violence interruption grants and
how others are making a difference. It is the first time in 30
years that Congress did anything around gun violence. So, join
us in these solutions is what I suggest to every Member of
Congress.
It is distressing to hear of violence in here in D.C.,
which has become my second home, but it is not unique to here.
I am from the Philadelphia suburbs. Philadelphia is the city I
call home. It is not unique to here. It is sadly a nationwide
epidemic. One of the big issues is the number of guns on the
street, and to your point, Mr. Stimson, the number of young
people, children with illegal guns.
So, Deputy Mayor Appiah, could you help me? How do the laws
in and around D.C. affect guns in D.C.? Where are these guns
coming from? Do we have gun manufacturers in D.C. that are
selling guns?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. No.
Ms. Dean. OK. Where are the guns coming from?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. As I said, so our neighbors to the
North in Maryland and to the South in what's the I-95 corridor
of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia are
the primary locations where illegal guns are coming in. So,
there is no question the District has strict gun laws, but
those around us do have more lax gun laws, which have allowed
the District to be flooded with unlawful guns from those
locations.
Ms. Dean. Exactly. Flooded. We are seeing that throughout
this country where guns are coming in from other jurisdictions
with more lax gun laws.
Before I yield to my good friend, I wanted to just note
something: Please be aware, to those of you who are here today,
that Members on the other side of this aisle have argued in
hearing after markup after hearing of defunding ATF, defunding
the FBI. That is not a solution. That is actually contributing
to the problem. We have got to stop demonizing.
We have to lift up those who are working for us to make us
safer. With that, I yield to my good friend, the gentleman from
Maryland, Mr. Ivey.
Mr. Ivey. I thank the gentlelady.
I thank you, Mr. Chair, for letting me quasi wave in today.
I appreciate the chance to be here.
I don't have enough time to cover all the things I want to
chat about, but I do want to note that yes, I was a former
Assistant U.S. Attorney. I was here from 1990-1994, which was
the height of the crack wars. D.C. averaged 450-500 murders per
year during that timeframe. In fact, carjacking I think was
invented during that timeframe. So, I understand violent crime.
I also understand that it went down pretty dramatically, and
not for the reasons that have presented here today. So, I do
want to emphasize that we want to have a serious approach to
addressing these. Mr. Abt is someone, actually, I am working
with right now to try and bring to Prince George's County to
address some of these issues.
Smart on crime is more effective than tough on crime. I do
want to challenge the suggestion, yes, Ms. Lee I think was
saying, we just need to be tougher, tougher, and tougher. We
saw that movie. That was 2.2 million people incarcerated from
incarcerating people for everything. That was marijuana on up.
I do want to say yes, we want to be tough on serious
violent offenders. After I left the U.S. Attorney's Office I
became the State's Attorney in Prince George's County, which is
the border or D.C. We are still working to try and coordinate
things with D.C. as we bring this down.
Guns are a key piece. I note that a lot of the crimes that
have been discussed today involve guns. Most of the gun cases
that are involved are the ones we see on the news at night.
Ghost guns for example. Ms. Appiah talked about guns coming
from out of State. I can't get any Republican cosponsors for
any of the legislation we proposed to try and address some of
these problems, including ghost guns, which I think everybody
will agree is a problem. They don't even have to go to Virginia
to get a ghost gun. They can just email it into the--email the
request and have it mailed into the District.
So, I am sorry I won't have a chance to discuss the
policing issues and the sentencing issues because I think--I
appreciate the work you all do, but there are major differences
I think between the solutions you are offering today and the
best approaches to addressing the crime problem. So, I
apologize for running over and hopefully I have a chance to do
more later in the hearing.
Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Georgia, Mr.
Johnson.
Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Sobolevsky, your experience is one that is a fear that
many people walk around with daily and hope that they will not
have to be the actual victim. So, I appreciate you coming and
sharing your harrowing experience. I am sorry that happened to
you and that the person who did that was insufficiently
punished.
Mr. Jablonski, same sentiment for you. I thought about what
I would do if I had been in the restaurant, just me and you and
that guy, and what I would have done. Would I have come to your
assistance? Would I have been as brave as your little son to
stand there? He couldn't do anything. I wondered what I would
do in that situation. I am glad that you made it out of there,
and I am sorry that you had to go through that.
Ms. Richards, a public safety employee, I am very sorry
that you don't feel safe doing your job, which is to help
people. Very sorry about that.
Detective Pemberton, thank you for your service. I
understand that law enforcement is a difficult occupation. A
lot of people decide to leave a lower-paying Police Department
such as Washington, DC, and go to one--after they get their
training and some experience go to another department where the
stress levels are less, and the pay is greater. So, I am not
sure that I agree with the inference that what the civilian
authority has enacted would cause a significant number of law
enforcement officers to just resign and turn in their badge and
do away with law enforcement. I just don't know if that is the
way that we should be thinking about things.
Mr. Abt, you are the founding Director of the Center for
the Study and Practice of Violent Reduction, or Violence
Reduction and an Associate Research Professor and Senior Fellow
at the Council on Criminal Justice. So, you have studied these
issues. From your research what are the specific drivers of
violence at the macro and the micro level and what has your
research shown about how evidence-based prevention and
intervention strategies can work alongside law enforcement
strategies to reduce violent crime?
Mr. Abt. Sure. At the broadest macro level I think that
it's a combination of the factors that are pushing people
toward crime and the factors that are pushing people against.
So, broadly speaking factors like concentrated poverty push
people toward crime. Then, the society's response to those
crimes is important as well.
So, thinking broadly about those is important.
On the micro level I think the evidence shows that what's
most likely, what's the strongest predictor of violence is
previous violent behavior and previous exposure to violence.
So, that's something that I think we can all agree that we need
to focus on and take very seriously.
Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you.
Deputy Mayor Appiah, do you have anything to add to that?
Deputy Mayor Appiah. Sure. One of the things that we
believe in the District is we need to address both what is
acutely happening through enforcement or otherwise, but also
root causes, which is why the District's invested--the mayor
has invested $100 million this year in affordable housing, an
additional $18 million in access to mental health, untold
amounts in recreation programs for young people, because I was
in the juvenile justice system in this district working for now
11 years. So, we know interventions with our young people
through recreation, through education, through mental health
services and supports--those are all prevention.
Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Yes, certainly. Things for young
people to do after school and during the summer are very
important, but I will close by just noting that 21 Members of
the--21 Republicans--when it came time to award the
Congressional Gold Medal to police officers, Capitol Hill
police officers, Washington, DC, police officers who came to
the aid of Capitol Hill police officers on January 6th, 21
Republicans, including my friend the Chair of this very
Committee, voted to oppose that. That has to be something that
causes Detective Pemberton a loss of morale and maybe some
decision to resign. With that I yield back.
Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
You may comment on that if you wish, Mr. Pemberton.
Mr. Pemberton. Yes. Thank you, sir. I mean, we're talking
about police response particularly on that day. I think our
members were happy to be respond to the call for service.
Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you so much. Did you--were
you--
Mr. Biggs. He cut you off. I extended the time for you to
answer. Were you able to respond?
Mr. Pemberton. I'll just continue, Mr. Chair. I think that
we understand that's our duty regardless of whether it's a call
for a stolen bicycle or whether there's a giant riot that
occurs anywhere in the city. Our members are going to show up
and we're going to make sure that we bring that situation back
under control. We were happy to be there that day and we were
happy to be able to render that situation safe.
Mr. Johnson of Georgia. You deserve a gold medal also.
Thank you.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Detective Pemberton.
So, I recognize myself for my five minutes.
Ms. Richards, Mr. Sobolevsky, and Mr. Jablonski, thank you
for being here. Your testimony is invaluable. I think, Mr.
Sobolevsky and Mr. Jablonski, you addressed interaction with
what I would call the Victims' Rights Unit of the D.C.
government. I think that might have worked out. I didn't get a
chance to--Ms. Richards, were you able to encounter Victims'
Rights Units?
Ms. Richards. No, sir.
Mr. Biggs. No one from the prosecutor's office of social
services came through for victims' rights to talk with you?
Ms. Richards. No.
Mr. Biggs. OK. Mr. Sobolevsky and Mr. Jablonski?
Mr. Sobolevsky. Yes, that is correct, they reached out to
me. They were nice and it's nice to have them, but it's no
compensation for what police should be doing, what prosecutors
should be doing, and what judges should be doing.
Mr. Biggs. Right.
Mr. Sobolevsky. There shouldn't need to be this Victims'
Rights Unit, or whatever it is. It should be elected officials
or who's ever in the position of power enforcing laws that are
already on the book.
Mr. Biggs. Right. Mr. Jablonski?
Mr. Jablonski. Yes, the lady that reached out to me was
very nice and she offered services for mental health for me and
my son, but when I explained that I was upset with the plea and
everything else, she was like I can listen, but I can't do
anything.
Mr. Biggs. Yes, I guess that gets to the point here is--
looks like the--except for in your case, Ms. Richards; you
didn't have any interaction, but the real nub is this the
prosecutorial arm. Sounds like it failed our three witnesses
here today.
Mr. Sobolevsky?
Mr. Sobolevsky. In part it's on the prosecutor, but it's
also on the judges.
Mr. Biggs. Right.
Mr. Sobolevsky. While it's happening here in D.C., it's
nationwide and it's a problem that scares me for someone who
just got married. I want to bring kids into this society, and
it scares me that we have kind of a prosecutorial rot and a
judicial rot in our system. There needs to be accountability in
that.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. So, I am going to direct the next
question to you, Detective Pemberton. You listed nine laws
passed by the D.C. Council that have an impact on enforcement
by the police and one of those seemed to have included an
elimination of qualified immunity. Is that accurate?
Mr. Pemberton. Well, I'm happy to say that this bill
actually was not passed.
Mr. Biggs. OK.
Mr. Pemberton. It was introduced and debated, but
thankfully that bill never made it to fruition. It was included
in the list because it goes to the sort of rhetoric that the
council was engaged in and how the message that was sent to
police officers about how they felt about them doing their
jobs.
Mr. Biggs. Right. That rhetoric and with the threat of
taking--removing qualified immunity, that has a suppressive
effect on actual policing in my experience and talking to
officers from many jurisdictions. Officers become more
cautious. Because even if you--as you said, even if you follow
the procedures, policies, constitution, statutes, you are at
personal risk for liability. Is that accurate?
Mr. Pemberton. Yes, that's right. I think a big misnomer
here about qualified immunity is that it applies to criminal
charges. It doesn't. Qualified immunity just allows citizens to
sue police officers as individuals if it were to be removed.
So, the suggestion there is that if a police officer were to go
out and make a mistake, then a citizen could sue them for their
own personal earnings, their savings, their home, and their
college savings. That obviously creates a chilling effect on
doing productive and proactive police work.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Mr. Stimson, I want to ask you a
question related to your comments about the OAG and--should be
eliminated and juvenile cases should be referred to U.S.
District Attorney for D.C. The reason I ask that question is
because I am incredibly dissatisfied with the performance of
Mr. Graves, who is the U.S. Attorney for D.C. Do you trust him
if he were given now jurisdiction or broader jurisdiction over
juvenile cases that he would actually enforce those? Would he
prosecute those?
Mr. Stimson. Well first, Mr. Chair, I'm not proposing to
eliminate the OAG. They're the city attorney and they do a good
job handling civil and other matters--
Mr. Biggs. Moving--
Mr. Stimson. --moving the criminal function into the U.S.
Attorneys by expanding the Superior Court division and adding a
juvenile and traffic section, like most city DA Offices have.
Look, there are good prosecutors in my old office. I'm
disgusted in what happened in these three cases here. I'm
ashamed actually of what happened in those cases. That wouldn't
happen at a good DA Office. Just wouldn't.
Sunlight's a good disinfectant according to your colleague,
the Ranking Member. She's had a very productive conversation
with Mr. Graves. They said the declination rate is coming down.
I hope that's correct. I look forward to seeing the numbers
which are coming out soon.
The OAG holds onto as many juvenile cases as they can. So,
I think if you offer a solution do what most big city DA
Offices do: Put the juvenile section in the DA's Office and
then exercise oversight over that office in an appropriate way
so that--and change the law so that violent juvenile offenders
can be handled in the adult court.
Mr. Biggs. My time has expired. I regret that terribly
because there is so much more to talk about with you, but with
that this will conclude our--
Ms. Jackson Lee. I have submissions for the record.
Mr. Biggs. We have a submission for the record by Ms.
Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. I have an article dated March
13, 2023, that indicates cases were dropped because of
incorrect information being given to the U.S. Attorney and it
was agreed to by then Police Chief Robert Contee, who indicated
that we must have complete and good information to come in for
cases to be prosecuted.
Then, I want to put into the record the response to Mr.
Stimson. There is no mandatory minimum penalty--
Mr. Biggs. You cannot put into the record a response, but
you can put into the record the actual U.S. Code, if you would
like.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, then I will. There is no mandatory
minimum penalty for 18 U.S.C. 922(g), felony in possession of a
firearm. There is one for in possession of a firearm in the
committing of a crime.
Ms. Jackson Lee. My statement, I am going to put that into
the record unanimous consent.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I am just going to mention, not put in the
record at this time, Mr. Chair--I think--
Mr. Biggs. No, you can't mention.
Ms. Jackson Lee. --the importance of the Personal Integrity
Act.
[Simultaneous speaking.]
Mr. Biggs. You can't filibuster here. No.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you for
your courtesy.
Mr. Biggs. You bet.
Ms. Jackson Lee. To the--
Mr. Biggs. Those will be admitted without objection.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Can I thank the witnesses, as I
know you will, and express my deep concern for the victims and
I hope they have gained--whatever we say today, I hope you gain
that we want to work together to stop violent crime and to stop
more victims from accruing. Thank you to the District of
Columbia. I yield back.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
I do thank our witnesses for testifying today, for coming
here. I know that it was very difficult perhaps, I would
imagine, for our victims who are witnesses. Appreciate your
testimony and express my deepest regrets that you encountered
what you encountered as well as the time it will take to fully
heal from that. So, may God bless you guys to feel his peace.
Without objection, all Members will have five legislative
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses
or additional materials for the record.
Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
Before I say that--it is too late now; I already said it,
but I also want to get into the record my gratitude to our
staff, and I know that the Ranking Member would extend her
gratitude to her staff as well, for preparing for this hearing
today.
With that, we are adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
The record for this hearing by the Members of the
Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance is
available at: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/
ByEvent.aspx?Event ID=116457.
[all]