    [House Hearing, 118 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

      .                   VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME IN THE
                              DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL
                                GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE

                                     OF THE

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                           THURSDAY, OCTOBER 12, 2023

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 118-48

                                   __________

             Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                   Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov

                                   __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    53-784                      WASHINGTON : 2023

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                           COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                            JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

    DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking
    KEN BUCK, Colorado                       Member
    MATT GAETZ, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
    MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana              SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
    ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
    TOM McCLINTOCK, California           HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
    TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Georgia
    THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ADAM SCHIFF, California
    CHIP ROY, Texas                      ERIC SWALWELL, California
    DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           TED LIEU, California
    VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
    SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          J. LUIS CORREA, California
    CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
    BEN CLINE, Virginia                  JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
    LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  LUCY McBATH, Georgia
    JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
    TROY NEHLS, Texas                    VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
    BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
    KEVIN KILEY, California              CORI BUSH, Missouri
    HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             GLENN IVEY, Maryland
    NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               BECCA BALINT, Vermont
    LAUREL LEE, Florida
    WESLEY HUNT, Texas
    RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
                                     ------

                       SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIME AND FEDERAL
                            GOVERNMENT SURVEILLANCE

                           ANDY BIGGS, Arizona, Chair

    MATT GAETZ, Florida                  SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas, Ranking
    TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Member
    TROY NEHLS, Texas                    LUCY McBATH, Georgia
    BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
    KEVIN KILEY, California              CORI BUSH, Missouri
    LAUREL LEE, Florida                  STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
    RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina          HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
                                             Georgia

                   CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
              AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff

                                C O N T E N T S

                                  ----------

                           Thursday, October 12, 2023

                                                                       Page

                               OPENING STATEMENTS

    The Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the Subcommittee on Crime and
      Federal Government Surveillance from the State of Arizona......     1
    The Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking Member of the
      Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from
      the State of Texas.............................................     3
    The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary
      from the State of Ohio.........................................     6
    The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on
      the Judiciary from the State of New York.......................     6

                                   WITNESSES

    Charles ``Cully'' Stimson, Deputy Director, Edwin Meese III
      Center, The Heritage Foundation
      Oral Testimony.................................................    10
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    12
    Gregg Pemberton, Chair, Detective Grade 1, D.C. Police Union
      Oral Testimony.................................................    32
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    34
    Lindsey Appiah, Deputy Mayor, Public Safety and Justice,
      Washington, DC
      Oral Testimony.................................................    37
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    39
    Thomas Abt, Chair, Violent Crime Working Group; Senior Fellow,
      Council on Criminal Justice
      Oral Testimony.................................................    47
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    49
    Mitchell Sobolevsky, Victim of Crime, Washington, DC
      Oral Testimony.................................................    52
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    54
    Gaynor Jablonski, Owner, Valor Brewpub, Washington, DC
      Oral Testimony.................................................    56
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    58
    Myisha Richards, Firefighter/Paramedic, Washington, DC
      Oral Testimony.................................................    59
      Prepared Testimony.............................................    61

              LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

    All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
      Crime and Federal Government Surveillance are listed below.....    81

    Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, Chair of the
      Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance from
      the State of Arizona, for the record
        A report entitled, ``The D.C. City Council Failed at Criminal
            Justice Reform--Congress Must Fix It,'' Jul. 12, 2023,
            The Heritage Foundation
        A report entitled, ``The Blue City Murder Problem,'' Nov. 4,
            2022, The Heritage Foundation
    Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking
      Member of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government
      Surveillance from the State of Texas, for the record
        An article entitled, ``90 drug and gun offenders released
            after police misconduct probe,'' Mar. 14, 2023, WUSA9
        A copy of 18 U.S.C. 922(g), No Mandatory Minimum Penalties
        Statement by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking Member
            of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government
            Surveillance from the State of Texas
        A copy of HR 7100, 116th Congress, 2nd Session, Jun. 4, 2020

                                    APPENDIX

    Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, Ranking
      Member of the Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government
      Surveillance from the State of Texas, for the record
        An article entitled, ``DC Invests More Policing Than Any
            Other Large City,'' Third Way
        A copy of the Code of the District of Columbia, 22-4503,
            entitled, ``Unlawful possession of firearm,'' Council of
            the District of Columbia
        A copy of 18 U.S.C. 922, Part I, Chapter 44, entitled,
            ``Unlawful acts''
        A copy of 18 U.S.C. 924, Penalties

                        VICTIMS OF VIOLENT CRIME IN THE.
                              DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

                                  ----------

                           Thursday, October 12, 2023

                            House of Representatives

           Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance

                           Committee on the Judiciary

                                 Washington, DC

        The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:08 a.m., in
    Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Andy Biggs
    [Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
        Members present: Representatives Biggs, Jordan, Gaetz,
    Tiffany, Kiley, Lee, Jackson Lee, Nadler, McBath, Dean, and
    Johnson.
        Also present: Representative Ivey and Delegate Norton.
        Mr. Biggs. [Presiding.] Good morning.
        The Judiciary Committee's Subcommittee on Crime is called
    to order. We thank all of you for being here.
        We will begin with the Pledge of Allegiance offered by the
    gentleman from California, Mr. Kiley.
        [Pledge of Allegiance.]
        Thank you, Mr. Kiley, and thank each of you.
        Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
    recess at any time.
        We welcome everyone to today's hearing on Victims of
    Violent Crime in the District of Columbia.
        Without objection, the gentlelady from the District of
    Columbia, Ms. Norton, will be able to participate in today's
    hearing to question witnesses if a member yields their time for
    that purpose. We are grateful to have Ms. Norton visiting with
    us today. Thank you.
        I now recognize myself for an opening statement.
        We welcome, again, each of you to our hearing today in the
    Nation's Capital. We especially thank all our witnesses. We are
    grateful to have you here.
        The crime we are witnessing just a few blocks from this
    building is unprecedented. No section of the city can be
    considered safe anymore, and the man who is in charge of
    prosecuting the criminals has abandoned his responsibilities.
    That is Matthew Graves, U.S. Attorney for the District of
    Columbia, who was appointed by President Joe Biden. He is
    failing to prosecute criminals.
        His office has consistently declined to prosecute criminals
    in the District. In 2021, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the
    District of Columbia opted against prosecuting 67 percent of
    arrests presented in the D.C. Superior Court.
        To provide context, out of the 15,315 arrests made in D.C.,
    10,261 did not lead to prosecution. In comparison, in 2015, the
    U.S. AODC only declined to prosecute 35 percent of cases, which
    suggests that the office under Graves' leadership is failing to
    prosecute crimes and protect the public.
        In just a few short years, the city went from having 65
    percent of cases prosecuted to having 65 percent of cases
    dropped--a complete reversal that has had a catastrophic impact
    on public safety. Mr. Graves has indicated that the type of
    cases he is refusing to prosecute are primarily illegal gun
    possession and illegal drug possession cases.
        Without fail, we can anticipate that my Democratic
    colleagues will call for more gun control, but President
    Biden's handpicked prosecutor for Washington, DC, refuses to
    enforce gun laws already on the books.
        Violent crime rates in Washington, DC, have seen a
    significant spike this year. Just last week, the District
    surpassed 200 homicides--the quickest the District has hit this
    mark at this point in the year this century.
        As of October 3, 2023, violent crime is up 38 percent from
    the same time last year. For example, as of October 4, 2023,
    MPD data shows 750 reported carjackings, of which an alarming
    75 percent involved weapons. However, there have only been 113
    arrests for carjackings this year--with juveniles responsible
    for an astonishing 65 percent of those carjackings.
        Additionally, as of October 4th, year-to-date statistics
    for 2023 reveal 216 homicides, 123 cases of sexual abuse, 2,656
    robberies, and 1,110 assaults involving dangerous weapons. As
    of October 4, 2023, the District has witnessed 4,105 violent
    crimes and 21,980 property crimes.
        The criminals know they will not be prosecuted by U.S.
    Attorney Matthew Graves, but Matthew Graves is not the only one
    soft on criminals in Washington, DC. City leadership slashed
    the Metropolitan Police Department budget by, roughly, $15
    million in 2021, and the Washington, DC, City Council has
    passed laws that embolden criminals and hamstring the police.
        In November 2022, the D.C. City Council voted unanimously
    on a bill to overhaul the Criminal Code, which reduced the
    maximum sentence for almost all violent crimes and eliminated
    mandatory minimums for all crimes, except first degree murder.
    That proposal was vetoed by the mayor, which was later
    unanimously overridden. The bill was so radical that bipartisan
    majorities in both the House and Senate passed a resolution to
    prohibit it from becoming law and President Biden signed it.
        In the wake of the May 2020 of George Floyd, the District
    City Council passed police reform legislation that radically
    changed policing in the District. Unfortunately, city
    leadership has not always supported law enforcement, and that
    shows up in recruiting, and failure to retain officers who they
    have spent money training have simply been let go.
        Today, we will hear from a former Assistant U.S. Attorney,
    an MPD detective, and victims of crime about ways to make this
    city safe again.
        At this time, I have two articles that I'm going to enter
    into the record--one called ``The D.C. City Council Failed at
    Criminal Justice Reform--Congress Must Fix It,'' and another
    called ``The Blue City Murder Problem.'' Those will be admitted
    to the record without objection. Seeing none.
        Now, I am going to show a short video.
        [Video played.]
        I thank again the witnesses for being here. I look forward
    to your testimony. We appreciate your being here, and all in
    the audience and the Members of the Committee being here.
        I yield and now recognize the gentlelady from Texas, the
    Ranking Member, Ms. Jackson Lee.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Chair, thank you so much for your
    courtesies.
        Thank you to my colleagues that are here, Ranking Member
    Nadler, Congresswoman McBath, and Congresswoman Dean. We are
    pleased that the District of Columbia Representative,
    Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton, is present today to make
    many efforts to hear her voice.
        Let me be very clear. We are in the midst of disarray. We
    have no Speaker. For those of you who watch Democrats come in,
    we are in a very serious caucus meeting, which is our
    responsibility. So, please forgive us for any short delay that
    you may have seen. It is no offense intended.
        The first thing I want to say is to those who have been
    victims of crime--that there is no greater responsibility for
    those of us in Congress and those of us in local government,
    those of us who will lead cities and those of us who lead
    cities, to realize that our people, the people there, are our
    greatest responsibilities.
        I want to be a problem solver and a crime fighter. So,
    having lived here even before I was a Member of Congress, and
    enjoyed the blessings of being a resident of the District of
    Columbia or working in the District of Columbia, I can assure
    you I have a great affection for this city--separate and apart
    from its historic responsibility or role as the Capital of the
    United States, which I tell all my elementary school children
    about how important Washington is.
        I do want to say that we need to be serious about what has
    happened to you, as a victim, and my colleagues seem to want to
    exaggerate not your injury and the fear, but the idea that we
    were also attacked on January 6, 2021, when there were no
    voices from my friends on the other side of the aisle about the
    violence that came to this city and no interest in voting for
    the commission that we were trying to put forward.
        So, I want to make sure that, when this hearing gets
    through, that we have solutions for you, and that we either
    work with Federal funds, which I know that your Member is
    working on. As I do so, let me be very clear: This is a
    challenging moment. We embrace our victims. We want them to be,
    in essence, never victims again, but protected in the status
    that they are in.
        In the record, I must place the 10 cities that employed the
    most police officers per capita in 2022: Washington, DC, 542.91
    per 100,000. It doesn't mean, residents, it doesn't mean not
    more are needed. It means we need to work together. The 10
    cities that spent the most on policing per resident in 2022:
    Washington, DC, No. 1; $751.62 per person.
        So, we need to find a way to get to the core of the
    violence, the violent criminals off the street. This uptick in
    crime is concerning, not only for the residents who call this
    city home, especially in the areas of the city that bear the
    brunt of the most violence, but also for the millions of
    visitors who come to experience its rich history, culture, its
    warmth, and important political institutions.
        That is why I hope we will have a genuine discussion today
    that focuses on solutions. We can't win by finger-pointing. We
    are in the midst of finger-pointing now, and we have no
    Speaker.
        It is essential that Congress prioritize the safety and
    security of those who live, work, and visit the District by
    ensuring that the Federal government, we must do our part. I am
    a big believer in Federal resources matching local resources
    for your safety.
        The District of Columbia is unique in many ways, and one of
    them is the complex relationship it shares with the Federal
    government. While its status as the Nation's Capital brings
    many benefits, it also brings many challenges. We are in here
    every day as guests, but we also create an extra financial
    burden.
        In combating violent crime, the District of Columbia has
    taken a multifaceted approach that includes passing emergency
    legislation, supported by the mayor, that filled in gaps in
    pretrial detention procedures for violent criminals. We are
    holding, you are holding more of these criminals now;
    bolstering law enforcement programs and recruitment; and
    implementing community policing initiatives and instituting a
    juvenile curfew in certain hotspots.
        We know that we have to work with juveniles. We know they
    are in the midst of juveniles going forward into the 20s, are
    those who are in the mix. Those in their late 20s are the ones
    with most of the gun violent incidences. We understand that.
        So, enhancing the use of technology, such as CCTV cameras,
    to combat crime. Additionally, the District has focused on
    crime prevention strategies, such as increased investment in
    youth programs, education, and job opportunities for at-risk
    individuals.
        It doesn't help you say that there is a crime wave across
    America. Every city has to take responsibility, and I realize
    that, because people are in pain.
        The District's response to any type of crime, whether
    violent or not, can be complicated by overlapping jurisdictions
    and responsibilities between local and Federal law enforcement.
    I want to find a smoother way of finding that common ground
    that they can work together, along with your distinguished
    Member of Congress.
        We know that the Federal government's presence in the
    District, while providing unique opportunities for
    collaboration, also creates challenges. We want to, for
    instance, despite the obvious needs for agencies from both
    governments to work together and share information vital to
    public safety, like the identity of an individual suspected of
    committing multiple robberies, communication between the two
    agencies or entities can be stymied by legal red tape. Let's
    stop that. That is why it is crucial for Congress to ensure
    coordination and communication among the multiple agencies that
    possess jurisdiction over different areas of the criminal
    justice system.
        I hope our witnesses today will offer solutions, establish
    greater coordination and cooperation between the local and
    Federal law enforcement. We must also consider the resources
    required to combat violent crime. Getting violent criminals off
    the street is what we all should, collectively, want to do.
        Wraparound services and helping those who can get out of
    the criminal mindset, get them away from this, and you won't
    see them again. Let's not eliminate that opportunity. Let's
    deal with mental health services that may also be engaged.
        Both the local and Federal governments must continue to
    allocate sufficient funding and investment in resources for law
    enforcement agencies, crime prevention programs, community
    initiatives, and as they perceive in the local government, the
    need for additional law enforcement officers and public safety.
    Helping to strengthen these vital institutions will support the
    District's ability to address the underlying causes of violent
    crime.
        I spoke with the U.S. Attorney for the District of
    Columbia, Matthew Graves, who lives in the District, loves this
    city, and it will have the same impact on him as any other
    person that may be subject to the acts of a violent criminal.
    He is using every tool that he has available to address violent
    crime, including carjackings, robberies, as well as the flow of
    illegal guns in the city from States, from Virginia and
    Georgia.
        I did not hold up on the inquisition that I gave of him
    yesterday in a very lengthy conversation. He assured me that
    they are at a point where 90 percent of the individuals
    arrested for the most serious violent crimes, which are
    homicide, carjacking, rape, and assault with intent to kill,
    are being prosecuted.
        He also noted that a significant decrease in number of
    cases that his office chooses not to prosecute after inheriting
    a declined unit--excuse me--a declined rate of 70 percent. He
    is working to get rid of that number and to prosecute cases.
        So, there is a stitching-together and work, but we must do
    a lot to help move forward the crime lab, get it on its feet,
    and get it where it is moving cases forward. We can be helpful
    in that, and I hope the Congresswoman will allow us to be
    helpful or to instruct us how best to do that.
        As Democrats continue to offer solution after solution to
    make all American communities safer to work, it is important
    that we rid the streets of illegal firearms--let's not make
    light of that--hold offenders accountable; address the root
    causes of violence, such as poverty and housing and civility
    and addiction. Republicans have yet to join us on all these
    issues. We can't just point the finger; we have got to work on
    all of them.
        The surge of violent crime in the District is a problem. I
    want to hug every victim, but I would like to say I don't want
    you to be a victim. I don't want victims in Houston, Texas. I
    want to make sure that we get to this point, that we live in
    safely in the Nation and in our communities.
        So, we can establish stronger partnerships, sharing
    information, and as well, making sure that we are together as
    not only Washingtonians, that we are now, but as Americans.
        Mr. Chair, I'm yielding a second to Congresswoman Eleanor
    Holmes Norton.
        I'm yielding you a moment just to comment on the record.
        You are going to yield to her?
        Mr. Biggs. Yes.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. All right.
        Mr. Biggs. Yes, she will be yielded time.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. She will be yielded.
        Mr. Biggs. Yes.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. I just wanted to make sure. Thank you so
    very much. Thank you, Chair and Ranking Member Nadler.
        By establishing this ability to work together, my goal here
    is to sit here and listen to you with respect, and my mind will
    be calculating how we continue to work with you, your mayor,
    our law enforcement, your Washingtonians, your excellent Member
    of Congress, and the Federal government, to do what we are
    supposed to do, which is to ensure the national safety of the
    American people.
        With that, I yield.
        Mr. Biggs. I thank the gentlelady.
        Without objection, the gentleman from Maryland, Mr. Ivey,
    will be able to participant in today's hearing and to question
    witnesses if a Member yields him time for that purpose.
        The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the Full Committee,
    Mr. Jordan, for his opening statement.
        Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair.
        Crime is out of control, and everybody knows it. More
    importantly, everybody knows why. When you defund the police,
    and you have prosecutors who go soft on crime, you get more
    crime. This doesn't take a genius to figure this out. We have
    done field hearings in New York, field hearings in Chicago.
    Everybody tells us the same thing. Frankly, when you disparage
    the good men and women who put on the uniform, risk their life
    every day in our streets, you also get a shortage of police
    officers and more crime.
        Never forget: Bad guys aren't stupid; they are just bad. If
    they know there are less police on the street to stop them and
    they are not going to get prosecuted if they do get caught,
    they do bad things. That is what we have all got to understand.
    This is as basic as it gets.
        So, I want to thank our witnesses for being here. I thank
    the Chair for this hearing.
        We have heard this in New York and Chicago, and we are
    going to other cities. We have to change this. We have to begin
    to say to our law enforcement, ``Thank you. Thank you for doing
    a tough job.'' That is what is at stake here.
        Mr. Chair, I thank you again for this hearing and our
    witnesses for being here today. I yield back.
        Mr. Biggs. I think the gentleman, Mr. Chair, for yield
    back.
        I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee,
    Mr. Nadler, for his opening statement.
        Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Chair, no one should be afraid in their own community.
    No one should be afraid to walk to school, to go to their
    neighborhood park, or to drive home to their families after a
    long day at work.
        We all share a commitment to protecting our communities,
    and I want to thank our impacted witnesses for appearing today
    and for sharing their stories.
        The COVID-19 pandemic destabilized many communities
    nationwide, exacerbating root causes of violent crime, like
    poverty and joblessness. It left many of our young people
    without the day structure and mentors to help them succeed.
        While some cities have largely recovered from the effects
    of the pandemic, Washington, DC, still has more work to do to
    improve public safety. Make no mistake, our Republican
    colleagues have not called this hearing to help D.C. solve
    problems.
        They were not looking to solve problems when they called a
    hearing on victims of violent crime in Manhattan just two weeks
    after its District Attorney charged President Trump with
    multiple felonies. They were not looking to solve problems when
    they held a roundtable in Chicago mere days before a potential
    government shutdown.
        So, too, today, as Republicans struggle to elect a new
    Speaker, sending the House spiraling into new depths of chaos
    and dysfunction. This hearing is yet another attempt to
    distract and mislead the American people. We won't fall for it.
        The Republican majority offers no policy solutions that
    would actually protect residents of Washington, DC, or other
    big cities. Instead, they seek only to flood these cities with
    more guns, while they work against meaningful legislation to
    invest in our communities and support proven public safety
    measures.
        Remember that, under Democratic control, the House passed
    the VICTIM Act, legislation that would provide $100 million a
    year to law enforcement to help solve homicides, but 178
    Republicans voted against it. That is 178 Republican Members
    who opposed the bill to help prosecute murderers.
        Fifty-five Republicans opposed the Invest to Protect Act, a
    bill that would have authorized $300 million in grants for law
    enforcement agencies with fewer than 125 officers.
        Now that Republicans are in the majority, not only have we
    not taken any of these bills back up, but they are actually
    looking to cut funding for dozens of critical grants and
    government services that support State and local law
    enforcement. How exactly is this supposed to protect victims of
    violent crime in Washington, DC?
        Meanwhile, D.C. has the highest per capita spending on
    police in the country. Also, D.C. has the largest per capita
    police force, the most officers per resident of any city in the
    country.
        So, D.C. is investing in law enforcement, and it will keep
    investing in law enforcement, but Democrats know that this is
    just part of the answer. Law enforcement, to be effective, it
    also has to have the trust of the community it serves. Officers
    have to be able to get tips from community members to solve
    crimes.
        That is why we supported the George Floyd Justice in
    Policing Act to fund training, promote accountability, and
    strengthen public trust; 212 House Republicans--that is to say,
    all of them at the time--voted against it.
        Now, communities have fewer homicides when there are fewer
    illegal guns. That is why we established a Federal crime for
    gun trafficking and straw purchasing in the Bipartisan Safer
    Communities Act. It became law over the objections of 193
    Republicans who voted against it.
        Crime prevention is about much more than law enforcement.
    That is why we passed the Break the Cycle of Violence Act to
    invest in community violence intervention and job training
    programs for 16-24-year-olds; 207 Republicans voted against it.
        Time and time again, Democrats have put forth comprehensive
    public safety solutions to fund law enforcement, support
    community partners, provide job opportunities, and combat gun
    trafficking. Republicans have opposed these efforts over and
    over; instead, offering hearing after hearing that serve as
    nothing more than a press release.
        These political stunts are not a solution, but they are all
    Republicans have to offer. Don't forget that, when a violent
    mob of right-wing extremists stormed the Capitol on January
    6th, following encouragement from Donald Trump, few of our
    Republican colleagues were worried about violent crime in D.C.
    on that day.
        When that mob beat police officers, including both Capitol
    Police and the D.C. Metropolitan Police who came to provide
    support, many of our Republican colleagues downplayed the
    brutality that these officers faced.
        When Speaker Pelosi brought forth a bill to honor the
    Capitol Police and the D.C. Police with Congressional gold
    medals, 21 Republicans, including Members of this Committee,
    voted against it.
        Finally, I want to address a statistic that came up in a
    different hearing that Republicans on the Oversight Committee
    held, which is also intended to beat up D.C., and also came up
    in the Chair's opening statement this morning. They attacked
    the U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, Matthew Graves,
    for declining to charge 67 percent of the arrestees referred to
    his office in Fiscal Year 2022, implying that he is soft on
    crime.
        What they didn't mention is that the rate of charges for
    the most serious violent crimes is much higher. In fact, it is
    90 percent. Their misleading statistic also ignore the fact
    that some cases are not resulting in charges because there
    simply isn't enough evidence at the time of arrest to support a
    charge. The U.S. Attorney's Office continues to investigate
    these cases and may bring charges later, but those charges are
    not reflected in that misleading statistic. Further, some
    charges are not pursued because the victim simply does not want
    to press charges, and the government does not have enough
    evidence to proceed without the victim's testimony.
        In any case, the U.S. Attorney is a Federal official, and
    if we want him to do more, we can give him more resources. That
    would require real action from a Republican majority that
    cannot even manage the basic functions of government, and that
    appears more interested in defunding the FBI, the ATF, and
    other Federal law enforcement agencies, than in offering
    solutions to communities that need our help.
        I look forward to hearing from our witnesses about how the
    many solutions that Democrats have offered can improve public
    safety in D.C. and across our Nation. Unlike our colleagues, we
    are ready to act.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Biggs. Without objection, all other opening statements
    will be included in the record.
        Mr. Biggs. I will now introduce today's witnesses.
        Detective Gregg Pemberton, thank you for being here.
        Mr. Pemberton is a retired D.C. Metropolitan Police
    Department detective, who serves as the Chair of the D.C.
    Police Union. He represents more than 3,600 officers and has
    testified before Congress previously about the challenges that
    police officers face on the job.
        Are you not retired?
        Mr. Pemberton. I'm an active-duty detective, sir. Thank
    you.
        Mr. Biggs. Well, maybe I got that wrong. I think I did get
    that wrong. I apologize.
        Mr. Pemberton. I'll take you up on being retired.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Biggs. Sorry. I apologize, Detective.
        Mr. Gaynor Jablonski is the owner of the Valor Brewpub, a
    veterans-focused bar in Washington, DC. On June 29, 2023, he
    was attacked inside his business while his four-year-old son
    was present. The assailant pointed a gun at Mr. Jablonski and
    his son. D.C. prosecutors offered the assailant a plea deal and
    released him, pending sentencing.
        Mr. Mitchell Sobolevsky. Mr. Sobolevsky was robbed at
    gunpoint in Washington, DC. His assailant, subsequently, had
    his sentence reduced and went on to rob two additional people.
        Mr. Charles ``Cully'' Stimson is the Deputy Director of the
    Edwin Meese Center at the Heritage Foundation. His work focuses
    on criminal law and drug control policies, as well as issues
    related to national security and armed conflict.
        Ms. Myisha Richards is a firefighter and paramedic in
    Washington, DC. On July 31, 2020, she was assaulted and beaten
    by two people who called 911 for assistance. One of her
    attacker's cases was dropped, while the other was recently
    sentenced to approximately 60 hours of community service.
        Deputy Mayor Lindsey Appiah. Ms. Appiah serves as the
    deputy mayor for public safety and justice in Washington, DC.
    She previously served as Assistant General Counsel and interim
    Director of the D.C. Department of Youth Rehabilitation
    Services.
        Mr. Thomas Abt is the Chair of the Violent Crime Working
    Group and a Senior Fellow at the Council on Criminal Justice.
    His research focuses on violent crime and other public safety
    problems.
        Again, thank you, each of you, for being here today. We
    look forward to your testimony. It is important, and I know you
    are going to provide us with some real enlightenment today.
        We will begin by swearing you in. Would you each please
    rise and raise your right hand?
        Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the
    testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best
    of your knowledge, information, and belief, so help you God?
        Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in
    the affirmative.
        You may be seated.
        Please know that your written testimony will be entered
    into the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you
    summarize your testimony in five minutes. I think that the
    light will go yellow right there when you have a minute left.
    You might hear me lightly tap right about five minutes, so you
    will know to wrap up, if you haven't wrapped up yet.
        So, we are going to begin today with Mr. Stimson first. You
    are recognized, sir, for five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF CHARLES STIMSON

        Mr. Stimson. Chair Biggs, Ranking Member Lee, and Members
    of the Subcommittee, thank you for inviting me to testify here
    this morning. My name is Charles Stimson. I am a Senior Legal
    Fellow at the Heritage Foundation, but I am testifying in my
    own capacity to offer solutions.
        In the last 30 years, I have practiced criminal law as a
    criminal defense lawyer; a prosecutor at the local, State, and
    Federal level in four jurisdictions; and a trial judge in the
    Navy JAG Corps. I also served as an Assistant United States
    Attorney here in D.C. in the U.S. Attorney's Office. I was born
    here in the District.
        Let me start by saying the obvious. The goal of the
    criminal justice system is narrow, but noble. It is to help
    solve crime. It is to enforce the criminal laws on the books in
    a fair, constitutional and predictable manner. It is not
    designed to fix society's ills. We have a murder problem in
    this city. If D.C. was a State, it would have the highest
    homicide rate per 100,000 residents of all States.
        In my testimony, I want to address five quick points.
        First, the D.C. City Council's laws and statements by
    members of that council have eroded accountability and
    contributed to the rise of crime across the city. The council
    has proven themselves incapable of creating a revised criminal
    code for the District. Their goal was to shrink the system, not
    hold criminals accountable. They had a decarceration agenda
    from the start. The laws they passed were so radical that they
    eliminated all mandatory minimum sentences of all crimes except
    first degree murder.
        Second, the D.C. U.S. Attorney's Office currently has
    policies and practices that undermine public safety in the
    city. Let me give you two examples.

        (1) Guns. The use of guns by career felons is a huge
    problem in this city. Every single day, the MPD arrests felons
    in possession of firearms. Ask Greg Pemberton. Yet, instead of
    prosecuting those felons in Federal District Court under 18
    U.S.C. 922(g) where they would receive a mandatory minimum
    sentence of at least five years, the Office instead takes those
    cases to D.C. Superior Court where they often get probation and
    hardly ever prison time. That is a policy choice.
        (2) The Office has a 67 percent declination rate as the
    Chair mentioned. It was 31 percent in 2015. The same size
    office, 330 prosecutors exist in San Diego. Over a 20-year
    period that office has had a 22.6 percent declination rate. San
    Diego doesn't have a crime problem. D.C. does.

        Third, the judges of the D.C. Superior Court had eroded
    accountability in the criminal justice system by the
    notoriously light sentences across all categories of crime
    contributing to a culture of lawlessness in our city. The local
    appeals court in the city, the D.C. Court of Appeals, has
    issued opinions in the last few years that Congress should
    review since they have caused restrictions to be placed on law
    enforcement authorities and prosecutors that are far beyond the
    requirements of the U.S. Supreme Court in precedent.
        Fourth, D.C. Attorney General's Office, or OAG, handles
    juvenile crimes, for decades has failed in its mission to hold
    violent criminals accountable including murderers and armed
    carjackers. Most youths, let me be clear, need to be and are
    handled in the juvenile justice system. We need a juvenile
    justice system in this country, but there are certain crimes
    like murder, armed robbery, armed carjacking, rape, child
    sexual abuse, and other heinous crimes that should be handled
    in the adult court. Congress should strip the OAG from
    prosecuting all crimes and give that to the D.C. U.S.
    Attorney's Office.
        Finally, the D.C. Crime Lab's loss of its certification or
    suspension of its certification is emblematic of D.C.'s
    dysfunctional government as a whole. Opened in 2012 at the cost
    of $210 million, the Crime Lab has had problems from the
    beginning. The lab had its accreditation suspended in 2021, so
    the U.S. Attorney's Office had to use other labs. If the lab
    gets its accreditation back next year, there is no guarantee it
    won't lose it again. It is time to solve the problem and offer
    a solution. Congress should Federalize the lab and give it to
    the FBI, DEA, and ATF which would then handle all DNA,
    firearms, fingerprint, and other forensic evidence requests
    from the D.C.'s U.S. Attorney's Office.
        In conclusion, the crime problem here is a man-made
    problem. Criminal justice reform is not rocket science. The
    vast majority of victims of violent crime in our city are
    minorities. They deserve to live in peace. They deserve to
    sleep well at night and not worry about their kids getting
    shot. They deserve, just like the rest of us, their public
    safety privilege in their neighborhoods. Thank you for the
    opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Stimson follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Stimson.
        Now, we will go to you, Mr. Pemberton. Thank you and I
    recognize you for five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF GREGG PEMBERTON

        Mr. Pemberton. Thank you, sir. Good morning, Members of the
    Committee. Thank you for this opportunity to testify. As the
    Chair of the D.C. Police Union, I speak on behalf of
    approximately 3,000 sworn police officers, detectives, and
    sergeants who serve the District of Columbia as members of the
    Metropolitan Police Department. I am a Detective Grade 1. I
    have worked for the city for 18 years. I take great pride in
    serving the city.
        Much of my testimony here today will be a reiteration of
    testimony I provided to the House Oversight Committee seven
    months ago. Unfortunately, since that hearing, crime rates in
    the District of Columbia have only continued to skyrocket. This
    testimony will focus on issues related to public safety, crime,
    and law enforcement, and more specifically, numerous actions by
    the D.C. Council to include their rhetoric that has resulted in
    a mass exodus of sworn law enforcement officers and exponential
    increase violent crime.
        Beginning in June 2020, the D.C. Council began introducing
    antipolice legislation designed in their own words to ``act
    accordingly to bend the arc of justice.'' I would like to
    provide a list of just some of the legislation the D.C. Council
    would introduce over the course of the next two years: The
    Comprehensive Policing Justice Reform Amendment Act, the
    Strengthening Oversight and Accountability of Police Amendment
    Act, the Revised Criminal Code Amendment Act, Reducing Law
    Enforcement Presence in Schools Act, the Law Enforcement
    Qualified Immunity Cessation Act, the Law Enforcement Present
    Sense Impression Act, the Law Enforcement Vehicular Pursuant
    Reform Act, the School Police Incident Oversight and
    Accountability Amendment Act, and the White Supremacy in
    Policing Prevention Act.
        The rhetoric that council members used when speaking
    publicly about law enforcement amounted to nothing short of
    virulent attacks on all police officers in the District. One
    council member even stated in a public hearing,

            I know for a fact there are police in the District who are bad
            actors and who have been going on without the proper penance.

        He also felt the need for Metropolitan police officers to
    receive ``some kind of retribution.'' Other council members
    bragged about defunding the department or making ``the biggest
    reduction to MPD he had ever seen.''
        Without delving into the granular details of how terrible
    these bills are or how blatantly awful the rhetoric used by the
    council was, I can assure the Members of this Committee that
    the direct result was a mass exodus of police officers from the
    department. To put a finer point on this issue of attrition,
    when I took office as head of the police union in April 2020,
    our membership reports showed we had 3,626 members of the rank
    and file which is all officers, detectives, and sergeants. Our
    most recent membership report from October 5, 2023, states we
    are down to 3,021. This is a net loss of 605 union members.
        Since the beginning of 2020, MPD has lost 1,329 officers,
    more than one third of the department. Five hundred and one of
    those separations, nearly 40 percent, were resignations,
    employees who just walked away from a career with the
    Metropolitan Police Department. These dangerously low police
    officer staffing levels take away valuable resources from our
    assignments, like detectives and investigative personnel, and
    impede the department's ability to engage and speak with
    victims in a timely manner.
        While there is much rhetoric around the concept of the
    number of police and the amount of crime, the following facts
    are indisputable. Crime stats year to date in the District are
    absolutely staggering. Homicides have reached 218, a 38 percent
    increase. Carjackings have reached almost 800 or 110 percent
    increase. Robberies are up 70 percent. Violent crime overall is
    up 40 percent. All crimes are up 28 percent. These statistics I
    have mentioned are city-wide. If one parses out the data to the
    neighborhood level, some of these communities have grown to
    look like war zones.
        Over the past 3\1/2\ years, our union has been sounding the
    alarm about this problem to anyone within earshot, including
    the D.C. City Council. We tried to inform our elected leaders
    of the unintended consequences of these policies.
    Unfortunately, we were ignored. D.C. residents and business
    owners are under siege. Members of Congress are being assaulted
    and carjacked. Their Congressional staff members are being
    robbed and stabbed. Tourists and visitors, your constituents,
    are being targeted and attacked. Yet, the D.C. Council fails to
    admit that their policies have played a significant role in
    this outcome.
        Now, over three years later, we have all seen the results
    of D.C. Council's experiments. The empirical data is in, and we
    know for certain that their efforts have been an abject
    failure, resulting in thousands more victims of crime in the
    city. The lasting impacts of these horrible policies will not
    be fully realized for some time and the efforts to repair the
    damage done could take decades without swift and thoughtful
    actions.
        If we do not fix the failing policies set in the place by
    the D.C. Council that our pushing our officers to leave MPD,
    crime will continue to rise and thousands more victims will be
    subjected to crime and violence.
        The purpose of my testimony here today is to inform the
    Committee on its on-going crisis that exists in the District
    and to publicly State we are prepared to assist in any way we
    can.
        Again, I thank you for the opportunity to testify and I
    welcome any questions that the Committee may have. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Pemberton follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you for your testimony.
        Now, Deputy Mayor Appiah, we recognize you for five
    minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF LINDSEY APPIAH

        Ms. Appiah. Good morning, Chair Biggs, Ranking Member
    Jackson Lee, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am Lindsey
    Appiah, I serve as Deputy Mayor for Public Safety and Justice
    for the District of Columbia, a position I was nominated to by
    Mayor Muriel Bowser and confirmed by the D.C. Council. Serving
    the residents and visitors of the District in this capacity is
    the honor of my life.
        By way of background, I have served for 11 years in
    District government, all which has been in public safety and
    justice, including as General Counsel and interim Director of
    the D.C. Department of Youth Rehabilitation Services, the
    District's juvenile justice agency.
        I want to acknowledge the witnesses who are sharing their
    perspectives and experiences in the space here, including Ms.
    Richards and Mr. Pemberton, who serve in agencies under my
    supervision. On behalf of the Mayor and the 700,000 residents
    of the District of Columbia, I express gratitude for their
    service and appreciate that they are able to be here to share
    information on the challenges we are facing in the District.
    Percents and numbers provide critical context. However, we can
    never lose sight that each statistic on a website read during a
    hearing is more than a number. The reality is there are no
    victimless crimes. We recognize the harm and trauma many have
    experienced, acknowledge our responsibility to respond
    hurriedly and urgently and vow to work tirelessly to make our
    city safer, stronger, and a place of collective flourishing.
        As Deputy Mayor for Public Safety and Justice, I provide
    direction, guidance, support, and coordination for the
    District's 12 public safety agencies and the D.C. National
    Guard, to develop and lead cross-cluster, interagency public
    safety initiatives, to improve the quality of life in the
    District neighborhoods. The missions of these agencies are
    dynamic and complex. Each plays a critical role in the overall
    health and functioning of our public safety and justice
    ecosystem. We call our system an ecosystem because an ecosystem
    is a complex, interconnected system that is dependent on each
    part for its help and optimal functioning. Our interdependent
    system is centered around prevention, intervention,
    enforcement, accountability, and rehabilitation.
        Prevention includes those non-law enforcement programs,
    services, and strategies aimed at decreasing the incidents of
    individuals committing violent crimes and in reducing the
    community conditions that lead to high rates of violent crime
    in communities in our city. It encompasses our work on
    providing coordinated delivery of wrap-around services and
    connecting our residents to a community that cares.
        Intervention and enforcement are primarily law enforcement
    strategies led by MPD. MPD does, currently, have the lowest
    force strength it has had since 1999. We are making investments
    to ensure that MPD can recruit and retain officers while also
    making investments in technology that will enhance our
    abilities to efficiently and effectively solve cases and bring
    much needed and deserved justice for victims in our city.
        Accountability includes the criminal justice system which
    we recognize is vital. Holding people appropriately
    accountability for their behaviors is critical to future
    determent. Currently, the D.C. Superior Court has 11 judicial
    vacancies.
        Our ecosystem has many pain and pressure points, but the
    District is investing significant resources into a multi-
    pronged public safety approach that invests in law enforcement,
    prevention efforts, youth programming, reentry, and
    rehabilitation.
        Another complexity is the uniqueness of the District's
    criminal justice system's structure, one that is a mix of
    local, Federal, and independent agencies, most of which are not
    under the authority of the mayor. We need all our colleagues in
    these agencies to match the commitment in the District
    government to not just combat crime, but to approach the work
    with the belief that we can prevent the next crime and prevent
    someone else from becoming a victim.
        Mayor Bower has also maintained we have to have a policy
    environment that supports appropriate accountability. In the
    District, we are leaders in systemic reform. This is certainly
    true in the criminal justice space where we lead in pushing
    bounds of what is possible to achieve equal justice for all
    under the law. We can and should be proud of our progress, but
    we must not be so proud that we are unwilling to critically
    evaluate our reforms and adjust when unintended consequences
    are leading to harmful outcomes which is why in May, Mayor
    Bowser sent to the Council and introduced the Safer, Stronger
    Amendment Act of 2023, a common sense set of policy proposals
    aimed at providing additional tools across our system to combat
    crime. The D.C. Council recognized this as law and passed the
    Prioritizing Public Safety Emergency Amendment Act which
    incorporates several provisions from the Safer, Stronger Act.
        We know more must be done and I echo what the mayor
    testified in May. Our public safety agencies here in D.C. and
    across the country need the support of Congress. I am happy to
    answer questions about more ways that Congress can help to
    support all the efforts that we described in D.C. government to
    actually lower crime in the District. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Appiah follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you, Deputy Mayor.
        Now, the Chair recognizes Mr. Abt for your five minutes.

                        STATEMENT OF THOMAS ABT

        Mr. Abt. Chair Biggs, Ranking Member Jackson Lee, and
    Members of the Subcommittee, I am Thomas Abt, Founding Director
    of the Center for the Study and Practice of Violence Reduction,
    also known as the Violence Reduction Center or VRC, located at
    the University of Maryland, College Park.
        VRC's mission is simple. We seek to save lives by stopping
    violence using science. Thank you for the opportunity to speak
    before you today on Victims of Violent Crime in the District of
    Columbia. This issue is personally and professionally important
    to me. I live here in the District. I was first exposed to
    violence while teaching at Roosevelt High School where one of
    my students was shot and killed. I fought crime in courtrooms
    in New York City while working as a local prosecutor. I helped
    start antiviolence initiatives as a senior Federal and State
    government official. Most recently, I have studied the issue of
    violent crime while working in academia.
        Violent crime in the United States should not be a partisan
    issue. In the wake of the corona virus pandemic violence surged
    around the Nation. It rose in urban, suburban, and rural areas.
    It rose in Red States and in Blue States. It rose in cities run
    by Republicans and in those led by Democrats. Recently, rates
    of violent crime have started to decline. Again, they are
    decreasing in both Red and Blue jurisdictions alike.
        While violence is falling in most cities around the
    country, that is unfortunately not the case here in the
    District. As of this past Tuesday, violent crime is up 40
    percent compared with the same time last year and up 30 percent
    compared to the same period in 2019 before the pandemic began.
        Crime has been falling steeply in the District for the past
    30 days, but no one should be satisfied with that. Why is crime
    rising here, while falling nationally? We need to acknowledge
    that this is a complicated question that is hard to answer with
    certainty. Nationally, our best answer is that violence surged
    during the pandemic due to the pandemic, unrest following the
    murder of George Floyd, and a massive surge in legal gun sales.
    As we get farther from those factors, violence across the
    country seems to be slowing.
        Locally, we need to understand that Washington, DC, is
    unique. The Metropolitan Police Department is one of more than
    20 law enforcement agencies operating in the jurisdiction.
    Prosecution is split between the U.S. Attorney's Office and the
    Office of the Attorney General. Judges are appointed by the
    President and confirmed by the Senate. There is no other
    jurisdiction in the Nation that is jointly administered in this
    way.
        If there is one thing I know after more than 25 years in
    this field is this, reducing crime and violence is a team
    sport. If individual players do not play well together, the
    team will not succeed. Collaboration is key. Collaborating is
    hard in any jurisdiction, but it is especially hard here in the
    District due to its unusual local-Federal structure. That is no
    excuse. The District can and should do better in communicating,
    collaborating, and executing its antivio-lence strategies. It
    is not easy, however, and Congress can help the city in several
    Congressional ways. I will mention just a few here.
        Every criminal justice system requires the sharing of the
    information of function. Here in the District, however, the
    Privacy Act of 1974 prohibits Federal agencies from disclosing
    critical information to local agencies. Congress could amend
    the Privacy Act to enable the effective sharing of information.
    By the start of 2024, the District's Crime Lab will have been
    without accreditation for nearly three years. The city needs
    and deserves a first-rate lab. Congress could support
    accreditation by appropriating funding for the lab and for
    external testing in the interim.
        The District, as you heard, is currently struggling with
    numerous judicial vacancies. Congress could pass the District
    of Columbia Courts of Judicial Vacancy Reduction Act and apply
    a 60-day Congressional review period to D.C. nominees and
    remove the requirement that the Senate hold hearings and vote
    on these nominations.
        None of these actions are likely to garner headlines, but
    they would make a difference in terms of safety for D.C.
    residents. They are all nonpartisan and things that the Members
    of both parties should be able to agree on. More broadly, just
    over 1\1/2\ years ago when rates of violent crime across the
    country were at their peak, I urged this Committee to put aside
    partisanship and support $6 billion in Federal funding for
    evidence informed antiviolence strategies carried out by local,
    community-based organizations, and local law enforcement
    agencies. That funding and those strategies are still sorely
    needed today in the District and around the Nation.
        Then is now, and you must remember that when it comes to
    violent crime, it is about solving a deadly serious problem,
    not winning an abstract argument. It is about emphasizing
    evidence over ideology, and it is about bringing people
    together, not pulling them apart. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Abt follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Abt, for your testimony.
        Now, the Chair recognizes Mr. Sobolevsky for your five
    minutes.

                    STATEMENT OF MITCHELL SOBOLEVSKY

        Mr. Sobolevsky. Thank you, Chair Biggs and Ranking Member
    Jackson Lee for the opportunity to address the Subcommittee
    today.
        While this didn't occur in D.C., I would first like to
    honor and recognize my father-in-law, who was shot and killed
    in Jacksonville, Florida, on December 4, 2022.
        I am going to discuss my experience though, as a victim of
    violent crime in the District of Columbia. On December 16,
    2020, I made a series of mistakes that almost cost me my life.
    Some may say it is victim blaming, but the reality is crime
    exists. If you are not careful in violent cities like D.C., you
    may end up just as another statistic.
        Shortly after 5 p.m. on December 16th, I left my apartment
    on N Street in Shaw, just a short walk from the White House. I
    was headed to get groceries and I did not realize that I would
    soon face a loaded barrel. Just as I began walking, I noticed a
    man acting suspiciously. He was looking over at me across the
    block and I told myself nothing was wrong and that nothing bad
    was going to happen to me. After all, the street was busy. What
    could go wrong?
        I turned down the block and I headed toward the grocery
    store, and I checked behind and there he was, still eyeing me.
    He followed in my direction. Alarmed, I noticed a couple
    walking just behind me and behind them, the would-be criminal.
    I thought to myself, don't worry, there are people right behind
    me. It is OK. A few moments passed and I looked again and the
    couple is nowhere to be seen and the man is quickly
    approaching. Before I could think, he was next to me asking for
    money. I politely said no and kept walking without realizing he
    had pulled a gun. The criminal stepped in front of me and said,
    you know what it is, before aiming a pistol at my face and
    pressing it against my forehead. I almost didn't believe it,
    but then reality set in, and I thought I was going to lose my
    life to a criminal on the street. I will never forget our
    interaction line by line. He told me, ``do what I say and you
    ain't going to die tonight.'' All I could hear was you are
    going to die tonight. Then my mom would have to come down to
    D.C. to identify my body on some cold street in Washington, DC.
        I remember looking into his eyes and seeing no life, no
    thought, no empathy, just evil. During the entire interaction
    where he demanded property after property from me, his finger
    laid on the trigger while the pistol pointed directly at my
    head. I, fortunately, concealed my phone. While I was foolish
    not to hand it over, it expedited my ability to call for help.
    I remember the last words out of his mouth muffled by his COVID
    mask, ``all right, you did good tonight. You ain't gonna die.''
    I thought well, this is where he shoots me. He stood me up and
    told me to walk and I did. After a few steps, I turned around
    and I could see him start to run. I repeatedly told myself,
    Mitchell, you have your phone, call 911. I took cover behind a
    parked cover and called exactly who you would want to respond
    in that situation, the police. Within minutes squad cars lined
    on 10th and N. I will never forget seeing the siren lights come
    and thanking God for the police. A young female officer
    responded immediately, and I knew I was safe and that my life
    was spared.
        I am trying to remain in my five minutes. I would like to
    note that after the arrest and coordinated with the U.S.
    Attorney's Office in D.C. my criminal went to trial. I gladly
    and passionately wrote an impact statement. I pleaded with the
    judge not to give a lenient sentence as this man would commit
    worse crimes than what he did to me. The judge proceeded to
    give my criminal 24 months and suspended a year of his sentence
    because the judge believed his judgment was still forming. This
    light sentence was given despite my criminal robbing six
    victims and two businesses. That is right. One year for
    multiple armed robberies. Within weeks of my criminal's
    release, he would go on to rob two more people at gunpoint. I
    would only find this out because I was reading the D.C. weekly
    arrests. We will never be able to eradicate violent crime
    completely, but we can take action to ensure that it happens
    less frequently.
        Today, D.C. has the highest violent homicides in almost 20
    years. It is short 400 police officers with the average
    homicide suspect having 11 prior arrests.
        I implore the Subcommittee to understand that policing,
    prosecuting, and most importantly, incarceration works. Violent
    crimes should not be dealt with lightly. How many more stories
    do we have to read about entirely preventable tragedies? Thank
    you. I look forward to your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Sobolevsky follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Sobolevsky for your compelling
    testimony. I appreciate you being here.
        Mr. Jablonski, I understand you have a video that you wish
    to show?
        Mr. Jablonski. Yes, please.
        Mr. Biggs. I recognize Mr. Jablonski for his five minutes,
    and we will show that video to begin.
        [Video played.]

                     STATEMENT OF GAYNOR JABLONSKI

        Mr. Jablonski. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me, Mr.
    Chair.
        As horrific as that video is, what happened after was even
    worse. He was arrested. We found out he was a Door Dash driver
    and for no reason why he acted that way. Within 10 days of him
    being arrested, after numerous conversations with the DA Office
    saying that I would do anything they needed to do not to plea
    this down, there were numerous eyewitnesses. There is a loaded
    nine-millimeter. It is kind of hard see there that this was
    pointed at my son. Not only was it loaded, but there was one in
    the chamber. When I knocked it out of his pants, luckily it
    didn't go off. It could have killed someone.
        The DA told me that they had to take him to account their
    resources and my resources and that they would plead this down
    to an attempted assault with a dangerous weapon and illegal
    possession of a firearm. When I challenged them as to why they
    would do that, and how does that take into account the
    endangerment of a minor, I was told that D.C. does not have a
    law for the endan-germent of a minor.
        After all that, I asked OK, well, ``what is the sentencing
    guidelines you are asking?'' Twelve to 18 months. I went to the
    sentencing date. He was released on his own recognizance
    basically. Went to the sentencing date. Made a victim impact
    statement and without a doubt in my mind if I didn't do that,
    his attorney was asking for divergence, and he probably would
    have been released.
        So, out of this entire situation, I now have bad publicity
    for my own business because people now worry there is somebody
    on the street walking around with a gun. This is at 2:30 in the
    afternoon. People are now telling me I am hesitating about
    ordering from Door Dash which maybe hurts Door Dash, but
    ultimately hurts the small businesses that support--helped
    through Door Dash. Then on top of everything else, he gets
    eight months and I am left explaining to my five-year-old that
    why I had to fight this man and my five-year-old tells me when
    I drop him off at school every day be safe.
        I understand I was born here. Been numerous--I have been in
    the bar industry for 25 years. I have seen the craziest things
    you can imagine. In the last 2-3 years, the brazenness of the
    violent acts that are going on in the city, but just around, in
    general, have gotten to the point where it is ridiculous. Now
    that I have been through the whole process from start to
    finish, you could enact whatever law you want. We could have a
    thousand new laws. We could have a thousand new police
    officers. You could throw millions at this DA's office. If
    nobody is going to do their job and prosecute and hold people
    accountable, what is the point?
        Thank you and I look forward to any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Jablonsky follows:]
        [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Jablonski for your testimony. The
    Chair recognizes Ms. Richards for your five minutes.

                      STATEMENT OF MYISHA RICHARDS

        Ms. Richards. Good morning. My name is Myisha Richards and
    I'm a firefighter paramedic with D.C. Fire and EMS. I've been
    in the Fire Service since 2009 and I began as a volunteer and
    loved every minute of my duties. My dream was to become a
    firefighter paramedic in the Nation's capital. I spent
    countless hours perfecting my craft in hopes of being able to
    serve the citizens of Washington, DC. My hard work finally paid
    off and I was hired on October 16, 2017.
        When I graduated from the academy, I was assigned to Engine
    32 in Ward 8. I loved every minute while working in the
    community and being able to help the citizens in any way that I
    can. One of my favorite things to do is to engage with the
    community and talk with the MPD officers. At times we played
    basketball together with neighborhood kids when we had some
    down time.
        On July 31, 2020, my partner and I responded to a 9-1-1
    call for a 90-year-old female in respiratory distress. When I
    arrived on scene, we had to get fully dressed from head to toe
    and full COVID PPE before we can enter the home.
        In the academy they teach us that scene safety is one of
    the most important things on a call. As a provider you have to
    be safe, you have to make sure your partner's safe to ensure
    proper and safe patient care.
        Once we entered, we found two females and one male in a
    back bedroom. The female caller was irate and stated we took
    too long and did not care about COVID--and that she did not
    care about COVID. The gentleman standing in the corner told her
    to allow us to do our job. The two subjects then began to fight
    each other.
        My partner and I did what we were trained to do, which is
    get out of the house and call a 1033 code to bring the police
    for help. I made it to the landing of the steps, reached for my
    radio, and before I could call the 1033 code, both females
    jumped over the banister onto the landing and began to punch
    and kick me while pulling my hair and holding my head down in
    place, naturally making the radio fall down the flight of
    steps. The man on scene stood holding my partner at the top of
    the stairs. Two minutes went by before I was able to get free
    and get my radio to call for help.
        I suffered a severe concussion and had a laceration above
    my eye which required stitches. These were the physical wounds
    that in time healed, however the mental impact will last a
    lifetime.
        Since this event I have been to the Center of Excellence,
    which is a rehab and mental health facility for firefighters.
    I'm having to learn how to live with PTSD and still do the job
    I love, without being anxious and fearing for the worst on
    every call.
        Prior to 2020, I felt like MPD's response to these routine
    medical calls in Ward 8 more. Their police presence was all
    that was needed to ensure our safety and to make sure the
    citizens were safe and able to get care without any violent
    interruptions. I feel safer on the job when I know MPD is
    either there or just a quick call away. We as a department are
    grateful for them especially when they're looking out for us on
    these streets. The amounts of assaults, violence, and shootings
    in the District are skyrocketing and it makes me feel less
    safe, especially after my incident.
        Just this week my coworkers can be heard screaming over the
    radio for a 1033 because an agitated patient tried to climb
    into the driver's compartment, maybe even trying to steal the
    ambulance. During all this chaos a gunshot wound victim was
    dropped off in the same place.
        This year, I received a phone call from the DA telling me
    nothing was going to happen to the two women who assaulted me.
    I was told that one of the women will receive community service
    not because of what she did to me, but because while in the
    process of prosecuting her for this crime she picked up
    additional charges. The other woman's charge would be dropped.
        I love this city, but we need to do better, and our first
    responders need to feel safe. The Nation's Capital is no longer
    a place where firefighters and EMS workers can render care to
    those in need without worrying of becoming a patient
    themselves. Several times a month we are on calls running from
    nearby gunshots or having a stage prior to getting a violent--
    prior to going into a violent scene because we are waiting for
    police officers to respond.
        When I took the oath and was sworn in to be a firefighter
    paramedic in Washington, DC, I was fully prepared and aware the
    possibility of dying in a fire could become a reality at any
    moment, however I did not expect that while helping someone
    during their most vulnerable time and need during a medical
    emergency that the tables could quickly turn on me and I could
    become a victim of an assault and lose my life trying to save
    another.
        In closing I want to thank all of you for this opportunity
    to share my story in hopes to find a solution to this
    detrimental uptick in violence and crime we have in the
    Nation's Capital and that our first responders are being looked
    out for, so we can look out for the citizens of Washington, DC,
    who need our help.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Richards follows:]
        [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Ms. Richards, for your testimony.
        The Chair recognizes now Mr. Gaetz for his five minutes of
    questions.
        Mr. Gaetz. Madam Deputy Mayor, are people more or less safe
    this year compared to last year in Washington, DC?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. I can't say whether they're more or
    less safe. I can say that crime is up and so long as anyone
    doesn't feel safe, then that's an issue for us.
        Mr. Gaetz. Would higher crime rates be one of the more
    important indicators as to whether or not people are more or
    less safe?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. It would be an indicator as to whether
    or not people feel more or less safe, so it's something that we
    certainly look at in determining that.
        Mr. Gaetz. I don't know. I think people could feel unsafe
    even if they were safe, but this doesn't seem to be a delusion,
    right? The cases of sexual assault rose 111 percent over the
    course of a year; homicides increased by 38 percent; motor
    vehicle thefts doubled, increasing 106 percent; instances of
    arson, over 125 percent; and carjackings by 55 percent. Why do
    you think that is?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. There's a host of complex reasons why
    that's the case. You've heard some. We talk about our
    ecosystem, policy reasons, right? There are--
        Mr. Gaetz. Do you think the softening of crime policies is
    one reason?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. I don't know that I would say soft on
    crime policies. What I would say is that there's a number of
    reforms in policy that have been made in the District that we
    believe need to be adjusted, which is why there's been a number
    of proposals from the mayor, legislation passed by the council
    to take a look at where we're getting the type of impact that
    we don't want.
        Mr. Gaetz. I agree with Mr. Abt that the only way this
    works is with collaboration. So, what do you think you would
    highlight as the main policy change that the mayor has proposed
    that could maybe put some downward pressure on this rising
    violent crime?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Sure. There's a host of proposals that
    the mayor made related to penalty enhancements, to aligning
    penalties for gun crimes with Federal penalties. So, there's
    those, but there's also those on information sharing--
        Mr. Gaetz. So, hold on. Let's start with those, though. The
    underlying premise is that enhanced punishment can have a
    deterrent effect and reduce crime, right?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. We absolutely agree with that, yes.
    Accountability is an important part of crime deterrence.
        Mr. Gaetz. I am definitely not blaming you for this because
    it is not your job, but when we look at the fact that the
    prosecutor over the D.C. area has doubled their declinations,
    like from your standpoint on the front lines in city government
    do you think that doubling the number of declinations goes in
    the right direction or the wrong direction?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. I would say that what we believe is
    that if MPD has made arrests, that people need to be held
    appropriately accountable. We always maintain that--
        Mr. Gaetz. It seems like the underlying premise of
    appropriately accountable is to have penalty enhancements
    that--it is not as if you think people are being held too
    accountable, it is that they are not being held accountable
    enough, right?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. There, absolutely, needs to be
    accountability for those who engage in violent crime.
        Mr. Gaetz. I think Ms. Richards would probably agree with
    that.
        Your testimony was harrowing, but it really concerned me
    that people might not be willing to do these life-saving,
    critically important jobs like firefighting and EMS if they
    feel like they are going into a war zone. You gave testimony
    about what it was like to wait on the police as you are trying
    to save people's lives and help them. Is there anything you
    would like to add to that?
        Ms. Richards. That's the State that we're in right now.
    I've waited in excess of 20 minutes before trying to get MPD on
    scene for a violent call.
        Mr. Gaetz. What do you do for 20 minutes?
        Ms. Richards. We stage and we wait because at this point,
    we're no longer going in--we're not going to those scenes.
        Mr. Gaetz. What happens to the people who need your help?
        Ms. Richards. So, therefore the citizens are not getting
    treated, they can't have our services because it's not safe for
    us to go in there.
        Mr. Gaetz. That sounds like life or death to me, that
    people could actually die because we don't have enough police
    to keep even our own first responders safe that want to save
    people's lives. Have you been confronted with these types of
    life-or-death situations where people can't get the care they
    need, because essentially you are waiting for fire power and
    cover to be able to go help people?
        Ms. Richards. I could say that, yes, there's been times
    where we have to wait. Like I said, I've waiting personally
    myself in excess of 20 minutes for the MPD to arrive on scene.
        Mr. Gaetz. Yes. I would observe, Mr. Chair, that D.C. has
    some of the strongest gun control laws in the country, and
    increasingly the law-abiding people, the people who want to be
    helpful, who want to be good neighbors are constrained by those
    gun control laws, and yet the violent criminals are putting Ms.
    Richards and all the people who want to do the good work she
    does in graver danger. That might be something worthy of some
    Federal review. I yield back.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentleman yields.
        The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Jackson Lee.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
        At this time, I want to yield to the Ranking Member of the
    Full Committee, Mr. Nadler, who will then yield to the District
    of Columbia Congresswoman, Eleanor Holmes Norton. I yield to
    Mr. Nadler.
        Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Chair, this hearing is not a
    serious exercise. My Republican colleagues have shown very
    little interest in the welfare of the people of Washington, DC,
    and this political stunt is further evidence of that.
        Rather than asking questions myself I would like to yield
    my time to the person who has dedicated her life to
    representing the Nation's Capital and its residence, the
    gentlewoman from Washington, DC, Ms. Norton.
        Mr. Biggs. I just want to--just kind of a personal
    clarification. So, whose time--Mr. Nadler's? It is Mr. Nadler's
    time is going to Ms. Norton? OK. Thank you.
        Ms. Norton, you are recognized.
        Ms. Norton. Thank you and I thank my good friend for
    yielding.
        As the only Member of Congress elected by the nearly
    700,000 District of Columbia residents, I appreciate the
    opportunity to weigh on this Committee for the purposes of this
    hearing.
        I am deeply saddened that some of the witnesses for this
    hearing were victims of crime in the District, however while
    the Federal government controls much of D.C.'s criminal justice
    system, to the extent that this hearing focuses on D.C.'s local
    laws and local government, it violates the purposes of the D.C.
    Home Rule Act, which is to, among other things, and I am
    quoting,

            Grant the inhabitants of the District of Columbia powers of
            local self-government and relieve the Congress of the burden of
            legislating upon essentially local district matters.

        While Congress has Constitutional authority to legislate on
    local D.C. matters, it does not have a Constitutional duty to
    do so. Instead, legislating on local D.C. matters is a choice.
    James Madison said in Federalist 43 about the residents of the
    District, and I'm quoting,

            A municipal legislature for the local purposes derived from
            their own suffrages will of course be allowed them.

        The Supreme Court has held that Congress may delegate,
    quote, ``full legislative power to D.C. on local D.C.
    matters.'' D.C.'s local legislature, the D.C. Council, has 13
    members. The members are elected by D.C. residents. If D.C.
    residents do not like the laws the council adopts, they can
    vote the members out of office. That is called democracy.
        Congress has 535 voting members. The members are elected by
    residents of States. None are elected by or accountable to D.C.
    residents. If D.C. residents do not like the laws Congress
    adopts, they cannot vote the members out of office.
        The Revolutionary War was fought to give consent to the
    governed and to end taxation without representation, yet D.C.
    residents cannot consent to any action taken by Congress
    whether on national or local D.C. matters and pay full Federal
    taxes. Indeed, D.C. residents pay more Federal taxes per capita
    than any State and more local Federal taxes than 19 States.
    D.C. residents, a majority of whom are Black and Brown, are
    capable and worthy of governing themselves.
        If House Republicans cared about Democratic principles or
    local D.C. residents, they would bring my D.C. Statehood Bill,
    which would give D.C. residents voting representation in
    Congress and full local self-government to the floor.
        Congress has the Constitutional authority to admit the
    State of Washington, DC, if simply that is the will. I yield
    back and I thank the chairman.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentlelady yields back.
        The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr.
    Kiley.
        Mr. Kiley. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        We have heard testimony today about a culture of
    lawlessness in Washington, DC, and how crime rates are
    absolutely staggering. This is, of course, sadly true in other
    places across the United States: In Manhattan, in Chicago, in
    San Francisco, and Los Angeles. D.C. is a particularly
    compelling case study because of the unique nature of the
    District as a sort of self-contained jurisdiction. It allows us
    to really parse the different elements of that culture of
    lawlessness and how they have become mutually reinforcing in a
    way that has caused crime to spiral out of control.
    Specifically, those elements would be the laws, police,
    prosecutors, and judges.
        So, starting first with the laws, Detective Pemberton, you
    represent 3,000 sworn officers, is that right?
        Mr. Pemberton. Yes, sir. Excuse me. Yes, sir, that's
    correct.
        Mr. Kiley. Thank you for your service and for all of them
    for the incredibly important and dangerous work that they do on
    a daily basis.
        You described in your testimony a spate of antipolice
    legislation such as the Comprehensive Policing and Justice
    Reform Act of 2020, the Revised Criminal Code Amendment Act of
    2021, the Reducing Law Enforcement Presence in Schools Act of
    2021. How would you summarize the overall effect of this
    legislation on criminal penalties in the District?
        Mr. Pemberton. Well, it's very wide-reaching. So, the first
    thing I would point to is the staffing levels and the morale of
    the police department. As I stated in my testimony, I think
    we're down somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 police officers
    from where we were just before this legislation was introduced.
        The legislation is designed to hamper and hamstring police
    officers and make it absolutely difficult for them to do their
    jobs. In addition to that, it exposes them to liability of
    administrative, civil, and even criminal penalties even when
    they go out and do their job properly, responsibly, and
    constitutionally.
        So, one major aspect of that is that people will leave an
    agency; they don't want to work under those sorts of onerous
    provisions. The other part of it is that it has a chilling
    effect, that there are still obviously thousands of police
    officers that have not left the agency, but it now--there's a
    second guessing as to whether or not they want to engage in the
    positive proactive policing that they used to engage, in which,
    was so effective at keeping these crime rates low. So, those
    are the two major aspects of what is happening, at least to the
    rank and file.
        As you stated in your question, the effects go into the
    entire ecosystem, as the deputy mayor mentioned.
        Mr. Kiley. That is right.
        Mr. Pemberton. Every aspect of the criminal justice system
    in D.C. is broken and the reason it is broken is because of
    these laws that the D.C. Council--
        Mr. Kiley. So, that actually answers my next question. So,
    you have this lowering of penalties across the board. Then even
    where penalties exist you still have someone who needs to get
    caught to be subject to those penalties. The defunding of
    police and the antipolice rhetoric from politicians from here
    has decreased that presence in the city, is that right?
        Mr. Pemberton. That's absolutely right. So, when we talk
    about this ecosystem of criminal justice, the front end of
    that, the intake system is police officers putting handcuffs on
    people who they have probable cause to believe committed a
    crime. If we're not doing that, a lot of the stuff downstream
    of that: Prosecutions, judges--
        Mr. Kiley. Yes.
        Mr. Pemberton. --supervision, that has very little effect
    because the number of people that we're actually arresting and
    bringing in--
        Mr. Kiley. That is right. Then when even we go downstream--
    Mr. Stimson, you used to work for the Chief Prosecutor here--
    how do the prosecutions rates here compare to other
    jurisdictions?
        Mr. Stimson. So, I've worked in four DA Offices and here
    this is the highest declination rate of any of those four DA
    Offices. As I said in my written testimony and in my oral
    statement, take two like-sized city DA Offices. San Diego has
    330 DAs. The U.S. Attorney's Office has 330 DAs. As was just
    mentioned, there are 700,000 residents here in the District,
    which is about 2,000-and-some persons per prosecutor.
        San Diego has 3.2 million residents in the county. So those
    prosecutors each serve about 9,000-plus residents, yet the San
    Diego DA's Office in the last 20 years has a 22.6-percent
    declination rate and a 77-percent issuance rate of charges. So,
    San Diego doesn't have a crime problem. I would respectfully
    disagree with one of the other witnesses and those who've
    mentioned that crime only spiked during COVID. It actually
    started going up in 2016 in cities with soft on crime
    prosecutors.
        Mr. Kiley. Sure. Then you also testified as to how the
    judges in this district tend to have much lighter sentencing
    than in other jurisdictions as well. So, at each stage of it
    you have an unavailability of serious penalties. You have a
    limited police presence because of defunding, and other
    antipolice policies. You have a very high declination rate by
    the prosecutor. Then even when people are prosecuted, very
    light sentences for the judges.
        So, that culture of lawlessness has contributed to this
    jurisdiction having a higher murder rate than anywhere else in
    the country and these absolutely staggering crimes statistics
    that we heard.
        Now, I am out of time, but just as a question, Detective
    Pemberton, I think that perhaps the biggest thing that we can
    do to change that culture of lawlessness is to create a new
    level of support for law enforcement, to recruit more folks
    into the profession, to improve morale. Do you have thoughts on
    how we can do that?
        Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired, but, Detective
    Pemberton, you may respond.
        Mr. Pemberton. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Yes, that's right. So, these--particularly when we're
    talking about these bills passed by the city council, the
    Comprehensive Policing and Justice Reform Act, this is
    absolutely detrimental to the hiring and the attrition rates of
    the Metropolitan Police Department. Without getting rid of at
    least some of the provisions within that bill it's going to be
    impossible for us to staff the police departments at the level
    that meets the demand that's out there for citizens who are
    requesting police services.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
        The Chair recognizes the Ranking Member, Ms. Jackson Lee.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
        Let me first ask to put into the record the information
    about Washington being No. 1 in police per capita and the
    amount of money spent on crime.
        Mr. Biggs. Without objection.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Let me again--the stories were
    horrific. Crime victims--there should be zero tolerance and we
    all have to come together to make that happen.
        To Mr. Jablonski, to watch your little one--I know what
    that means to you. Thank you for your courage to come here
    today, sir. Thank you.
        Mr. Jablonski. Thank you, Congresswoman.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Let me try to get our hands
    around what we need to do. So, let me just get right to the
    heart of things, Ms. Appiah. What is the District doing to
    address violent crime? What is the District doing to address
    carjackings?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Sure. So, we describe the ecosystem
    because that's important. So, the District's making investments
    in all those spaces. The first is prevention. I agree with Mr.
    Pemberton that obviously enforcement is important, but to us--I
    have a public health background. Preventing crime is the best
    way to have less victims.
        So, there's been significant investments made in violence
    intervention and prevention, which we're grateful for the
    investments that were made through the American Rescue Plan Act
    which allowed us to put funds into violence interruption
    services and also victim services, a host that--the District
    grants $100 million worth of grants to providers, community-
    based--
        Ms. Jackson Lee. You are not thwarting or stopping your
    police from engaging right on the streets arresting and
    bringing in carjackers?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct. There are a number of
    policing strategies. All these have to work together.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. You are respecting the police, for them to
    do their job?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Mayor Bowser is--that you will find no
    mayor who is more supportive of the police than Mayor Bowser.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. What is the greatest challenge for the
    District's ability to respond to violent crime?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. One of them is the complexities of our
    Federal-local system. You heard Mr. Abt describe information
    sharing. We know that even law enforcement strategies like
    focused deterrence or otherwise work when the entities all work
    together. We don't have one Governor--
        [Simultaneous speaking.]
        Ms. Jackson Lee. --is making note of that right now. There
    is no reason there should not be information sharing.
        Let me move quickly, if you don't mind.
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Yes.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. I have got a short period of time. You
    enacted emergency legislation in July that changed the
    landscape of prosecutions. Do you want to just let us know how
    that is happening? Is that the same legislation as the
    Prioritizing Public Safety Emergency Amendment?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. So, I want to hold up that this is the
    law.
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Correct.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Can you just give us a snippet? I have got
    so many other questions I want to ask Mr. Abt.
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Yes, it increases the presumption for
    pretrial detention which has led to more people being held
    pretrial. It increases penalty for things like unlawful
    discharge of a fireman. There are things related to pretrial
    detention for juveniles, which we know is an issue. There also
    was a companion bill that clarifies the ability of law
    enforcement to pursue in a manner consistent with safe policy.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. OK. Does the declination rate--is that
    coming down? Because the U.S. Attorney said it is.
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. I can't speak on behalf of the U.S.
    Attorney, but we are seeing more holds for those with gun
    crimes. So, we can make a--I can't say causation, but certainly
    a correlation.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. So, you have strong gun laws, but your
    surrounding neighbors don't. So, the issue is you don't block
    any citizen from having their guns--
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. --legal guns, but what you are seeing is
    gun trafficking on the street?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. How does that happen?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. So, we have significant gun
    trafficking from our neighbors in Virginia, Maryland, North
    Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia. That is where the
    illegal flow of guns into the District is. So, working with our
    partners like ATF and FBI and our Federal partners is deeply
    important to help us stop gun trafficking and the flow of--
        [Simultaneous speaking.]
        Ms. Jackson Lee. So, you are committed to fighting gun
    trafficking and carjacking, things that and robberies on the
    street?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Absolutely. Without equivocation we
    are.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. So, the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearm, and
    FBI, for those acronyms may not be familiar, they can do a lot
    more or you can work a lot more with them, is that my
    understanding?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. That's correct.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Mr. Abt, let me first, very quickly
    indicate that correction of Mr. Stimson. There is no mandatory
    minimum for gun possession in the Federal laws, but there is a
    mandatory minimum in D.C. They are not weak on crime in many
    instances, but they do have to help their victims and stop
    that. Mr. Abt, why don't you explore your COVID pandemic
    concept? Because I agree with you. Though you say that crime
    here is huge, but just explain that concept about the surge of
    crime across America.
        Mr. Abt. Sure.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentlewoman's time is expired, but you can
    answer the question, Mr. Abt.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. You may answer the question. Thank you.
        Mr. Abt. Sure. So, in 2020 we had one of the largest
    single-year increases in homicide across the country that we've
    ever seen, approximately 28 percent. As I said, no jurisdiction
    or almost no jurisdiction was spared regardless of political
    affiliation.
        Violent crime rose again the following year. It was flat in
    1922 and is now slightly coming down, thankfully. As I said,
    most experts agree on generally three reasons for this surge in
    crime, although Mr. Stimson is correct that there was a surge
    in crime in 2016 as well. Focusing on this 2020 surge, it was
    the pandemic itself, unrest following the murder of George
    Floyd, and this massive surge in gun sales. All three of these
    things together contributed to pushing the rates higher. As we
    get farther from that they seem to be decreasing.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Thank you to the witnesses. Thank you for your presence
    here.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr.
    Tiffany.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Abt, are you saying the lockdowns did not
    work?
        Mr. Abt. I'm not sure--
        Mr. Tiffany. The lockdowns led to higher crime is what I
    heard you say.
        Mr. Abt. No, I certainly did not say that, Congressman. Can
    you repeat the question?
        Mr. Tiffany. You said during the COVID lockdowns that crime
    went up in 2020.
        Mr. Abt. During the pandemic they went up, yes.
        Mr. Tiffany. So, the American people were locked down. I
    came here in a--I was sworn in here on May 19, 2020. I couldn't
    believe I could drive from the suburbs of Virginia to this
    location right here in about five minutes. Nobody was there.
    You said violent crime went up. So, didn't the COVID
    lockdowns--weren't they part of the contributing factor?
        Mr. Abt. I think that's an inappropriate connection between
    these two. I can't speak to that.
        Mr. Tiffany. Deputy mayor, D.C. Council Chair Phil
    Mendelson said, ``there is not a crime crisis in Washington,
    DC.'' Do you agree with him?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Oxford defines a crisis as a time of
    intense difficulty, trouble, or danger, and so I would say that
    we find ourselves in an intense time of trouble or danger. So,
    I would say there is a crisis anytime someone's a victim of
    crime in the District regardless of the number.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Chair, it sounds like we have identified
    part of the problem here with the D.C. Council when somebody
    will not acknowledge that there is a crisis and--by the very
    definition. As the Deputy Mayor said, ``there is a crisis.''
        Mr. Pemberton, so we are hearing about guns are the problem
    and guns coming from other States are the problem. Are crimes
    being prosecuted to their fullest that include guns here in
    D.C.? Are the judges giving the fullest sentences they can with
    gun crimes?
        Mr. Pemberton. No, absolutely not. So, some of the rhetoric
    that we hear around crime in the District is that it comes from
    illegal guns and that we have to focus on illegal guns, and
    that if we find a way to get illegal guns out of the hands of
    criminals, crime will come down. That's not necessarily wrong.
    Our officers for our unit, I think last year we arrested about
    3,100 people for possession of an illegal firearm.
        The problem is that even when we're able to get those cases
    papered and prosecuted and then a conviction, the average
    sentence that judges are handing out right now for that penalty
    is six months supervised release, which is zero jail time. That
    is the going rate, is what we say, for people who are in
    possession of illegal guns.
        Mr. Tiffany. Repeat that. Six months?
        Mr. Pemberton. Six months of supervised probation. So, that
    would be someone who's convicted of being in possession of an
    illegal firearm in the District of Columbia. The maximum
    penalty is five years under the D.C. Code, however the
    penalties that D.C. Superior Court Judges are handing out
    regularly are more along the lines of probation only.
        Mr. Tiffany. Probation only for a gun crime?
        Mr. Pemberton. That's right. Just to make a finer point on
    this, it doesn't seem like the city takes those crimes as
    seriously as they suggest given the fact that the courts are
    not penalizing people who are found convicted of those crimes.
        Mr. Tiffany. Was that your experience, Mr. Jablonski?
        Mr. Jablonski. Absolutely. If I didn't make that victim
    impact statement to the defense's attorney, the defendant's
    attorney would have been asking for divergence. I was told by
    the DAs afterwards that they were glad that I came because most
    likely he would have received divergence.
        Mr. Tiffany. Is Victim Services doing their job in D.C.?
        Mr. Jablonski. I mean they were very nice and they were
    helpful, but there's really--the only thing I wanted is I
    wanted to see real justice. I wanted to see something that
    showed me that they took into account what happened to me and
    my family. What I saw wasn't.
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Sobolevsky, is Victim Services doing their
    job in Washington, DC?
        Mr. Sobolevsky. I'd say they're doing their job. It's hard
    to say that the police, the prosecutors, and the judges are
    doing their jobs. Maybe the police are out there making
    arrests. Prosecutors aren't prosecuting. What going on there?
    Judges, they're letting criminals out in the street. My guy was
    given 1 year in jail. What did he do within weeks on release?
    My father-in-law was murdered by a guy with a rap sheet from
    1971. Why are they on the streets?
        Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Pemberton, have you lost officers to other
    jurisdictions around this region?
        Mr. Pemberton. Absolutely. Yes, a lot of the officers to
    leave have been going to neighboring jurisdictions.
    Particularly, what's interesting is Northern Virginia takes a
    lot of our members.
        Mr. Tiffany. I am going to close with this, Mr. Chair: I am
    going to make the case once again, I want this Committee to
    come Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to hear the story here. We have
    heard it in New York City, Chicago, and now in Washington, DC.
    I urge this Committee and the Chair to schedule a hearing in
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where the District attorney said will I
    divert some who will go onto kill someone? Absolutely. That is
    the problem here in the United States of America, is a soft on
    crime attitude.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
        The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Georgia, Ms.
    McBath.
        Ms. McBath. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Thank you also, Ranking Member Sheila Jackson Lee. Thank
    you for our witnesses today and for all of you that are
    witnesses that have suffered these horrific tragedies. You
    continue to be inflicted with this trauma every single day. I
    am so, so very sorry.
        I sit before you today as a mother who has suffered as a
    victim of gun violence. I am here because of an epidemic that
    has unequivocally and completely just played our country--
    plagued our country for just too long.
        I have dedicated my time while I have been here in Congress
    to reducing gun violence and advocating for commonsense gun
    laws to keep our neighborhoods, to keep our families safe, to
    keep you safe. Regardless of the city that you call home or the
    person representing you in public office, one fact remains
    true: We need comprehensive commonsense gun laws to end the
    violence that threatens the American people.
        As Members of Congress we are tasked with making a genuine
    difference in this country and taking steps to reduce violence
    by enacting Federal gun laws that keep our families and our
    children safe. This Committee along has numerous bills that
    will reduce violent crimes in D.C., and across our country once
    they are implemented.
        We made a historic step in the right direction last
    Congress with the passage of the bipartisan Safer Communities
    Act which invests $750 million into extreme risk protection
    orders to improve crisis intervention and empower our law
    enforcement and loved ones. It also invests $250 million in
    community-based violence intervention programs to support our
    communities that are crying out for our help. The successful
    passage of the bipartisan Safer Communities Act is a testament
    to our ability to unify in Congress and continue to fulfill our
    promise to fight for the safety of every American.
        These are our communities, our children, our loved ones,
    and gun violence should be a deep personal concern for each and
    every one of us here today, including all my colleagues in this
    Committee. Following this hearing I would urge that all my
    colleagues on both sides of the aisle to turn their concerns
    about violence into action. Continue the fight against gun
    violence with me and join on my Federal Extreme Risk Protection
    Order Act of 2023 so that we can link our actions into words.
        Empower loved ones, those who seek the warning signs of
    being in crisis first and law enforcement. Help them to help
    keep guns away from those who are a danger or at risk to
    themselves or hurting others. What truly matters is not which
    side of the aisle that we all fall on, but the countless lives
    that are lost in this country to unnecessary gun violence every
    single day. No mother, no parent, no American should ever
    experience the pain of losing a loved one. We must work
    together to end the epidemic of gun violence.
        Now, investments are being made by the bipartisan Safer
    Communities Act that are aimed at prevention. Deputy Mayor
    Appiah and Mr. Abt, as we look forward to ways to reduce
    violent crime across the country, how will a Federal bill to
    authorize Federal extreme risk protection orders contribute to
    reducing violent crimes across our country?
        Mr. Abt. Thank you for the question. I think if you look at
    the research that's been assembled by the RAND Institute,
    there's good research showing that extreme risk protection
    orders can save lives. They can particularly save lives in
    terms of avoiding homicides and there's some evidence that they
    can avoid homicides as well. So, I think that those laws and
    the support of--that Congress made for those laws in terms of
    enacting them in the best ways is a very strong step forward.
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. I would say the same thing as Mr. Abt.
    The district actually currently--I am Co-Chairing with our D.C.
    Council, a working group on how we can better utilize resources
    around extreme risk protection orders to keep district
    residents more safe.
        Ms. McBath. Well, thank you so much. I know that I have
    crisscrossed this country fighting to change our dangerous gun
    laws and I know that there are many in this room that have also
    worked as activists on the ground in the movement to do the
    same. No one in this country deserves ever to be affected by
    this violent culture that we are living in. I promise you that
    my colleagues and I will do whatever we can to keep you safe.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Florida, Ms. Lee.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Earlier this morning this hearing was referred to as a
    political stunt. I would like to begin by asking us all to
    remember that we are joined here today by the men and women of
    law enforcement, first responders, and the victims of violent
    crimes. They deserve our serious consideration of this gravely
    important issue.
        So, let's start with reality. The number of law enforcement
    officers assigned to a region per capita won't stop crime when
    law enforcement officers are prevented from doing their jobs by
    bad law. The number of prosecutors in a community will not stop
    crime when they do not bring cases and they do not enforce the
    law. It isn't enough to have judges on the bench when judges
    won't follow the rules and won't enforce the laws.
        We owe a responsibility to the citizens of Washington, DC,
    and the visitors from around the world who come to our Nation's
    Capital to keep them safe, and all too often they are here, and
    they are the victims of violent crime. They are being
    carjacked, they are being assaulted, they are being shot in the
    street. We must face the reality of the crime epidemic in
    Washington, DC, and do more.
        The reason that we are here is plain and it is obvious. It
    is the reckless and irresponsible rhetoric and failed policies
    of the Democrat Party and the Biden Administration that has
    emboldened criminals in cities across America. We owe the
    residents here and the visitors to our capital so much more.
        As a former Federal prosecutor and judge I will tell you
    this: There is one thing that reliably keeps a violent predator
    from recidivating, and it is called prison. Do some offenders
    deserve second chances? Absolutely. Do murderers, sex
    offenders, and rapists need to be out on bond? Do they need
    wrap-around services? Do those who are out on conditions of
    bond, who violate them deserve another chance? No. They deserve
    to be in custody, and they need to remain in custody for the
    safety of the citizens of this community.
        We need to support the men and women of law enforcement. We
    need prosecutors who will enforce the laws. We need judges who
    will force--follow the laws and enforce the rules. It is that
    simple. What we see here today, the testimony that we have
    heard today is the entirely predictable outcome of the reckless
    and irresponsible rhetoric and policies of the Democrat Party
    who are undermining the men and women of law enforcement and
    the rule of law in America.
        Mr. Stimson, I would like to start with you. In your prior
    testimony you referenced juvenile offenders specifically. I
    would like to explore the effects that you believe policies
    related to juvenile offenders are having on the crime problem
    in D.C., and how we could be doing more to ensure that this
    issue is under control.
        Mr. Stimson. Well, thank you for your question. I think we
    both agree as former prosecutors that we need a juvenile
    justice system. That is designed to help rehabilitate those
    people who make dumb mistakes when they're young. We believe
    most can be rehabilitated. When you do murder, multiple
    murders, rapes, carjackings--you heard the Chair mention the
    number of carjackings committed this year by juvenile
    offenders--and the No. 1 age is 15 here in the District who are
    doing armed carjackings.
        So, under Title 16, which is a local law here in the
    District, the U.S. Attorney's Office can take 16-17-year-olds
    and prosecute them as an adult. Many other jurisdictions don't
    have that type of shackles and they allow violent criminals who
    do murder, rape, robbery, and the rest of it and waive them to
    adult court, which is what should happen in this city because
    we have a juvenile violent crime problem.
        If I could just add, when I was talking about gun
    possessions and taking it to Federal court, I said felon in
    possession. As you know as a former Federal prosecutor felon in
    possession under 1922(g)-922(g) is a mandatory minimum. What
    happens in this city is that they charge him with--they charge
    them with--in Superior Court they charge them with carrying a
    pistol without a license, felon in possession, unregistered
    firearm, and unregistered ammunition. They deal away the felon
    in possession in Superior Court. They plea to carrying a pistol
    without a license. As Pemberton said, ``they get a slap on the
    wrist.''
        So, when I was a criminal defense attorney I wanted my
    client to get the best deal. I want them to be tried in
    Superior Court here in the District of Columbia, not Federal
    District Court regardless of what the sentence is because
    they're going to get a hard sentence in Federal Court.
        Ms. Lee. Should those juvenile--
        Mr. Biggs. I'm sorry. The gentlelady's time has expired.
        Ms. Lee. Oh, thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thank you.
        The Chair recognizes the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Ms.
    Dean.
        Ms. Dean. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        I thank the Ranking Member Lee also for putting forward
    this hearing today.
        Thank you all for your testimony. For those who are the
    victims of violent crime; I am thinking particularly of your
    little boy, my heart goes out to all of you, and I thank you
    for telling your stories because your stories are in search of
    solutions. That is what this Committee ought to be about,
    searching for solutions, not finger pointing at a single DA, or
    let's just say it is the entire Biden Administration's fault
    that there are violent crimes in this country. We are more
    serious than that. We must be more serious than that.
        I know that I have cared about the issue of gun violence my
    entire adult life and I am here in Congress. It is one of my
    most important passions, to make a difference. That is why I am
    very proud that last year we did the Safer Communities Act. I
    look forward to learning how violence interruption grants and
    how others are making a difference. It is the first time in 30
    years that Congress did anything around gun violence. So, join
    us in these solutions is what I suggest to every Member of
    Congress.
        It is distressing to hear of violence in here in D.C.,
    which has become my second home, but it is not unique to here.
    I am from the Philadelphia suburbs. Philadelphia is the city I
    call home. It is not unique to here. It is sadly a nationwide
    epidemic. One of the big issues is the number of guns on the
    street, and to your point, Mr. Stimson, the number of young
    people, children with illegal guns.
        So, Deputy Mayor Appiah, could you help me? How do the laws
    in and around D.C. affect guns in D.C.? Where are these guns
    coming from? Do we have gun manufacturers in D.C. that are
    selling guns?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. No.
        Ms. Dean. OK. Where are the guns coming from?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. As I said, so our neighbors to the
    North in Maryland and to the South in what's the I-95 corridor
    of Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina, and Georgia are
    the primary locations where illegal guns are coming in. So,
    there is no question the District has strict gun laws, but
    those around us do have more lax gun laws, which have allowed
    the District to be flooded with unlawful guns from those
    locations.
        Ms. Dean. Exactly. Flooded. We are seeing that throughout
    this country where guns are coming in from other jurisdictions
    with more lax gun laws.
        Before I yield to my good friend, I wanted to just note
    something: Please be aware, to those of you who are here today,
    that Members on the other side of this aisle have argued in
    hearing after markup after hearing of defunding ATF, defunding
    the FBI. That is not a solution. That is actually contributing
    to the problem. We have got to stop demonizing.
        We have to lift up those who are working for us to make us
    safer. With that, I yield to my good friend, the gentleman from
    Maryland, Mr. Ivey.
        Mr. Ivey. I thank the gentlelady.
        I thank you, Mr. Chair, for letting me quasi wave in today.
    I appreciate the chance to be here.
        I don't have enough time to cover all the things I want to
    chat about, but I do want to note that yes, I was a former
    Assistant U.S. Attorney. I was here from 1990-1994, which was
    the height of the crack wars. D.C. averaged 450-500 murders per
    year during that timeframe. In fact, carjacking I think was
    invented during that timeframe. So, I understand violent crime.
    I also understand that it went down pretty dramatically, and
    not for the reasons that have presented here today. So, I do
    want to emphasize that we want to have a serious approach to
    addressing these. Mr. Abt is someone, actually, I am working
    with right now to try and bring to Prince George's County to
    address some of these issues.
        Smart on crime is more effective than tough on crime. I do
    want to challenge the suggestion, yes, Ms. Lee I think was
    saying, we just need to be tougher, tougher, and tougher. We
    saw that movie. That was 2.2 million people incarcerated from
    incarcerating people for everything. That was marijuana on up.
        I do want to say yes, we want to be tough on serious
    violent offenders. After I left the U.S. Attorney's Office I
    became the State's Attorney in Prince George's County, which is
    the border or D.C. We are still working to try and coordinate
    things with D.C. as we bring this down.
        Guns are a key piece. I note that a lot of the crimes that
    have been discussed today involve guns. Most of the gun cases
    that are involved are the ones we see on the news at night.
    Ghost guns for example. Ms. Appiah talked about guns coming
    from out of State. I can't get any Republican cosponsors for
    any of the legislation we proposed to try and address some of
    these problems, including ghost guns, which I think everybody
    will agree is a problem. They don't even have to go to Virginia
    to get a ghost gun. They can just email it into the--email the
    request and have it mailed into the District.
        So, I am sorry I won't have a chance to discuss the
    policing issues and the sentencing issues because I think--I
    appreciate the work you all do, but there are major differences
    I think between the solutions you are offering today and the
    best approaches to addressing the crime problem. So, I
    apologize for running over and hopefully I have a chance to do
    more later in the hearing.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
        The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Georgia, Mr.
    Johnson.
        Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Sobolevsky, your experience is one that is a fear that
    many people walk around with daily and hope that they will not
    have to be the actual victim. So, I appreciate you coming and
    sharing your harrowing experience. I am sorry that happened to
    you and that the person who did that was insufficiently
    punished.
        Mr. Jablonski, same sentiment for you. I thought about what
    I would do if I had been in the restaurant, just me and you and
    that guy, and what I would have done. Would I have come to your
    assistance? Would I have been as brave as your little son to
    stand there? He couldn't do anything. I wondered what I would
    do in that situation. I am glad that you made it out of there,
    and I am sorry that you had to go through that.
        Ms. Richards, a public safety employee, I am very sorry
    that you don't feel safe doing your job, which is to help
    people. Very sorry about that.
        Detective Pemberton, thank you for your service. I
    understand that law enforcement is a difficult occupation. A
    lot of people decide to leave a lower-paying Police Department
    such as Washington, DC, and go to one--after they get their
    training and some experience go to another department where the
    stress levels are less, and the pay is greater. So, I am not
    sure that I agree with the inference that what the civilian
    authority has enacted would cause a significant number of law
    enforcement officers to just resign and turn in their badge and
    do away with law enforcement. I just don't know if that is the
    way that we should be thinking about things.
        Mr. Abt, you are the founding Director of the Center for
    the Study and Practice of Violent Reduction, or Violence
    Reduction and an Associate Research Professor and Senior Fellow
    at the Council on Criminal Justice. So, you have studied these
    issues. From your research what are the specific drivers of
    violence at the macro and the micro level and what has your
    research shown about how evidence-based prevention and
    intervention strategies can work alongside law enforcement
    strategies to reduce violent crime?
        Mr. Abt. Sure. At the broadest macro level I think that
    it's a combination of the factors that are pushing people
    toward crime and the factors that are pushing people against.
    So, broadly speaking factors like concentrated poverty push
    people toward crime. Then, the society's response to those
    crimes is important as well.
        So, thinking broadly about those is important.
        On the micro level I think the evidence shows that what's
    most likely, what's the strongest predictor of violence is
    previous violent behavior and previous exposure to violence.
    So, that's something that I think we can all agree that we need
    to focus on and take very seriously.
        Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you.
        Deputy Mayor Appiah, do you have anything to add to that?
        Deputy Mayor Appiah. Sure. One of the things that we
    believe in the District is we need to address both what is
    acutely happening through enforcement or otherwise, but also
    root causes, which is why the District's invested--the mayor
    has invested $100 million this year in affordable housing, an
    additional $18 million in access to mental health, untold
    amounts in recreation programs for young people, because I was
    in the juvenile justice system in this district working for now
    11 years. So, we know interventions with our young people
    through recreation, through education, through mental health
    services and supports--those are all prevention.
        Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Yes, certainly. Things for young
    people to do after school and during the summer are very
    important, but I will close by just noting that 21 Members of
    the--21 Republicans--when it came time to award the
    Congressional Gold Medal to police officers, Capitol Hill
    police officers, Washington, DC, police officers who came to
    the aid of Capitol Hill police officers on January 6th, 21
    Republicans, including my friend the Chair of this very
    Committee, voted to oppose that. That has to be something that
    causes Detective Pemberton a loss of morale and maybe some
    decision to resign. With that I yield back.
        Mr. Biggs. The gentleman's time has expired.
        You may comment on that if you wish, Mr. Pemberton.
        Mr. Pemberton. Yes. Thank you, sir. I mean, we're talking
    about police response particularly on that day. I think our
    members were happy to be respond to the call for service.
        Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you so much. Did you--were
    you--
        Mr. Biggs. He cut you off. I extended the time for you to
    answer. Were you able to respond?
        Mr. Pemberton. I'll just continue, Mr. Chair. I think that
    we understand that's our duty regardless of whether it's a call
    for a stolen bicycle or whether there's a giant riot that
    occurs anywhere in the city. Our members are going to show up
    and we're going to make sure that we bring that situation back
    under control. We were happy to be there that day and we were
    happy to be able to render that situation safe.
        Mr. Johnson of Georgia. You deserve a gold medal also.
    Thank you.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Detective Pemberton.
        So, I recognize myself for my five minutes.
        Ms. Richards, Mr. Sobolevsky, and Mr. Jablonski, thank you
    for being here. Your testimony is invaluable. I think, Mr.
    Sobolevsky and Mr. Jablonski, you addressed interaction with
    what I would call the Victims' Rights Unit of the D.C.
    government. I think that might have worked out. I didn't get a
    chance to--Ms. Richards, were you able to encounter Victims'
    Rights Units?
        Ms. Richards. No, sir.
        Mr. Biggs. No one from the prosecutor's office of social
    services came through for victims' rights to talk with you?
        Ms. Richards. No.
        Mr. Biggs. OK. Mr. Sobolevsky and Mr. Jablonski?
        Mr. Sobolevsky. Yes, that is correct, they reached out to
    me. They were nice and it's nice to have them, but it's no
    compensation for what police should be doing, what prosecutors
    should be doing, and what judges should be doing.
        Mr. Biggs. Right.
        Mr. Sobolevsky. There shouldn't need to be this Victims'
    Rights Unit, or whatever it is. It should be elected officials
    or who's ever in the position of power enforcing laws that are
    already on the book.
        Mr. Biggs. Right. Mr. Jablonski?
        Mr. Jablonski. Yes, the lady that reached out to me was
    very nice and she offered services for mental health for me and
    my son, but when I explained that I was upset with the plea and
    everything else, she was like I can listen, but I can't do
    anything.
        Mr. Biggs. Yes, I guess that gets to the point here is--
    looks like the--except for in your case, Ms. Richards; you
    didn't have any interaction, but the real nub is this the
    prosecutorial arm. Sounds like it failed our three witnesses
    here today.
        Mr. Sobolevsky?
        Mr. Sobolevsky. In part it's on the prosecutor, but it's
    also on the judges.
        Mr. Biggs. Right.
        Mr. Sobolevsky. While it's happening here in D.C., it's
    nationwide and it's a problem that scares me for someone who
    just got married. I want to bring kids into this society, and
    it scares me that we have kind of a prosecutorial rot and a
    judicial rot in our system. There needs to be accountability in
    that.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. So, I am going to direct the next
    question to you, Detective Pemberton. You listed nine laws
    passed by the D.C. Council that have an impact on enforcement
    by the police and one of those seemed to have included an
    elimination of qualified immunity. Is that accurate?
        Mr. Pemberton. Well, I'm happy to say that this bill
    actually was not passed.
        Mr. Biggs. OK.
        Mr. Pemberton. It was introduced and debated, but
    thankfully that bill never made it to fruition. It was included
    in the list because it goes to the sort of rhetoric that the
    council was engaged in and how the message that was sent to
    police officers about how they felt about them doing their
    jobs.
        Mr. Biggs. Right. That rhetoric and with the threat of
    taking--removing qualified immunity, that has a suppressive
    effect on actual policing in my experience and talking to
    officers from many jurisdictions. Officers become more
    cautious. Because even if you--as you said, even if you follow
    the procedures, policies, constitution, statutes, you are at
    personal risk for liability. Is that accurate?
        Mr. Pemberton. Yes, that's right. I think a big misnomer
    here about qualified immunity is that it applies to criminal
    charges. It doesn't. Qualified immunity just allows citizens to
    sue police officers as individuals if it were to be removed.
    So, the suggestion there is that if a police officer were to go
    out and make a mistake, then a citizen could sue them for their
    own personal earnings, their savings, their home, and their
    college savings. That obviously creates a chilling effect on
    doing productive and proactive police work.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Mr. Stimson, I want to ask you a
    question related to your comments about the OAG and--should be
    eliminated and juvenile cases should be referred to U.S.
    District Attorney for D.C. The reason I ask that question is
    because I am incredibly dissatisfied with the performance of
    Mr. Graves, who is the U.S. Attorney for D.C. Do you trust him
    if he were given now jurisdiction or broader jurisdiction over
    juvenile cases that he would actually enforce those? Would he
    prosecute those?
        Mr. Stimson. Well first, Mr. Chair, I'm not proposing to
    eliminate the OAG. They're the city attorney and they do a good
    job handling civil and other matters--
        Mr. Biggs. Moving--
        Mr. Stimson. --moving the criminal function into the U.S.
    Attorneys by expanding the Superior Court division and adding a
    juvenile and traffic section, like most city DA Offices have.
    Look, there are good prosecutors in my old office. I'm
    disgusted in what happened in these three cases here. I'm
    ashamed actually of what happened in those cases. That wouldn't
    happen at a good DA Office. Just wouldn't.
        Sunlight's a good disinfectant according to your colleague,
    the Ranking Member. She's had a very productive conversation
    with Mr. Graves. They said the declination rate is coming down.
    I hope that's correct. I look forward to seeing the numbers
    which are coming out soon.
        The OAG holds onto as many juvenile cases as they can. So,
    I think if you offer a solution do what most big city DA
    Offices do: Put the juvenile section in the DA's Office and
    then exercise oversight over that office in an appropriate way
    so that--and change the law so that violent juvenile offenders
    can be handled in the adult court.
        Mr. Biggs. My time has expired. I regret that terribly
    because there is so much more to talk about with you, but with
    that this will conclude our--
        Ms. Jackson Lee. I have submissions for the record.
        Mr. Biggs. We have a submission for the record by Ms.
    Jackson Lee.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. I have an article dated March
    13, 2023, that indicates cases were dropped because of
    incorrect information being given to the U.S. Attorney and it
    was agreed to by then Police Chief Robert Contee, who indicated
    that we must have complete and good information to come in for
    cases to be prosecuted.
        Then, I want to put into the record the response to Mr.
    Stimson. There is no mandatory minimum penalty--
        Mr. Biggs. You cannot put into the record a response, but
    you can put into the record the actual U.S. Code, if you would
    like.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, then I will. There is no mandatory
    minimum penalty for 18 U.S.C. 922(g), felony in possession of a
    firearm. There is one for in possession of a firearm in the
    committing of a crime.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. My statement, I am going to put that into
    the record unanimous consent.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. I am just going to mention, not put in the
    record at this time, Mr. Chair--I think--
        Mr. Biggs. No, you can't mention.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. --the importance of the Personal Integrity
    Act.
        [Simultaneous speaking.]
        Mr. Biggs. You can't filibuster here. No.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. I yield back. Thank you for
    your courtesy.
        Mr. Biggs. You bet.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. To the--
        Mr. Biggs. Those will be admitted without objection.
        Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you. Can I thank the witnesses, as I
    know you will, and express my deep concern for the victims and
    I hope they have gained--whatever we say today, I hope you gain
    that we want to work together to stop violent crime and to stop
    more victims from accruing. Thank you to the District of
    Columbia. I yield back.
        Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
        I do thank our witnesses for testifying today, for coming
    here. I know that it was very difficult perhaps, I would
    imagine, for our victims who are witnesses. Appreciate your
    testimony and express my deepest regrets that you encountered
    what you encountered as well as the time it will take to fully
    heal from that. So, may God bless you guys to feel his peace.
        Without objection, all Members will have five legislative
    days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses
    or additional materials for the record.
        Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
        Before I say that--it is too late now; I already said it,
    but I also want to get into the record my gratitude to our
    staff, and I know that the Ranking Member would extend her
    gratitude to her staff as well, for preparing for this hearing
    today.
        With that, we are adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 12:12 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

        The record for this hearing by the Members of the
    Subcommittee on Crime and Federal Government Surveillance is
    available at: https://docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/
    ByEvent.aspx?Event ID=116457.

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