[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                    OVERSIGHT OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT
                               OF JUSTICE

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                     U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                     WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 2023
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-45
                               __________

         Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary

                 
                 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                  
                  
               Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
53-649                    WASHINGTON : 2023                  


                       COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY

                        JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair

DARRELL ISSA, California             JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking 
KEN BUCK, Colorado                       Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California
MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana              SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona                  STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM McCLINTOCK, California           HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., 
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin                   Georgia
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky              ADAM SCHIFF, California
CHIP ROY, Texas                      ERIC SWALWELL, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina           TED LIEU, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana             PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin          J. LUIS CORREA, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon                  MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
BEN CLINE, Virginia                  JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas                  LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey            MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas                    VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama                 DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California              CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming             GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas               BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina

               CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
          AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
                                 ------                                

                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              

                     Wednesday, September 20, 2023

                                                                   Page

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Ohio.........................................     1
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on 
  the Judiciary from the State of New York.......................     3

                                WITNESS

The Hon. Merrick Garland, Attorney General, United States 
  Department of Justice
  Oral Testimony.................................................     6
  Prepared Testimony.............................................     8

          LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING

All materials submitted for the record by the Committee on the 
  Judiciary are listed below.....................................   105

Materials submitted by the Honorable Zoe Lofgren, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of California, for 
  the record
    A letter from David Weiss, United States Attorney, Jun. 7, 
        2023, to the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee 
        on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio
    A letter from David Weiss, United States Attorney, Jun. 30, 
        2023, to the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee 
        on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio
    A letter from David Weiss, United States Attorney, Jul. 10, 
        2023, to Lindsey Graham, Ranking Member of the Senate 
        Judiciary Committee from the State of South Carolina
    A report entitled, ``Annual Statistical Transparency Report: 
        Regarding the Intelligence Community's Use of National 
        Security Authorities,'' Apr. 2023, Office of the Director 
        of National Intelligence
A transcript enitled, ``Oversight of the Department of Justice,'' 
  Mar. 1, 2023, Senate Judiciary Committee Hearing, submitted by 
  the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee 
  on the Judiciary from the State of New York, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member 
  of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Texas, for 
  the record
    An excerpt from the transcribed interview of Jennifer Lee 
        Moore, Executive Assistant Director, Human Resources, 
        Federal Bureau of Investigation, Jun. 2, 2023,
    An excerpt from the transcribed interview of Thomas J. 
        Sobocinski, Special Agent in Charge, Federal Bureau of 
        Investigation, Baltimore Field Office, Sept. 7, 2023
    A Bill H.R. 4272, Jun. 22, 2023, To provide public awareness 
        and outreach regarding the dangers of fentanyl, to expand 
        the grants authorized under the Comprehensive Opioid 
        Abuse Grant Program, to expand treatment and recovery 
        services for people with opioid addictions, and to 
        increase and to provide enhanced penalties for certain 
        offenses involving counterfeit pills.
    A Bill H.R. 30, Jan. 9, 2023, To amend Title 18, United 
        States Code, to increase the punishment for certain 
        offenses involving children, and for other purposes.
A letter from Christopher Dunham, Acting Assistant Director, 
  Sept. 19, 2023, to the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio, submitted by 
  the Honorable Eric Swalwell, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of California, for the record
An article entitled, ``She secretly traveled 2,000 miles for her 
  WA abortion. Why patients from the South are coming here,'' 
  Feb. 26, 2023, The Seattle Times, submitted by the Honorable 
  Pramila Jayapal, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary 
  from the State of Washington, for the record
A fact sheet entitled, ``FACT SHEET: Protecting the Right to 
  Vote,'' submitted by the Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a Member 
  of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of 
  Pennsylvania, for the record
An article entitled, ``Mastercard and Visa's `duopoly' the target 
  of a new bipartisan bill that would reform the credit card 
  sector,'' Proactive Investors, submitted by the Honorable Lance 
  Gooden, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the 
  State of Texas, for the record
An article entitled, ``Texas National Guard orders hundreds of 
  asylum-seekers on US territory back into Mexico,'' Sept. 19, 
  2023, El Paso Times, submitted by the Honorable Veronica 
  Escobar, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the 
  State of Texas, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Glenn Ivey, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Maryland, for the 
  record
    A letter from Leslie B. Dubeck, General Counsel, District 
        Attorney's Office, New York, Mar. 31, 2023, to the 
        Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the 
        Judiciary from the State of Ohio, the Honorable James 
        Comer, Chair of the House Oversight Committee from the 
        State of Kentucky, and the Honorable Bryan Steil, Chair 
        of the House Administration Committee from the State of 
        Wisconsin
    A letter from Fani T. Willis, Fulton County District 
        Attorney, Sept. 7, 202, to the Honorable Jim Jordan, 
        Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of 
        Ohio
    A letter from Abbe David Lowell, Counsel, Robert Hunter 
        Biden, Sept. 14, 2023, to the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair 
        of the Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio, 
        the Honorable James Comer, Chair of the House Oversight 
        Committee from the State of Kentucky, and the Honorable 
        Jason Smith, Chair of the House Committee on Ways and 
        Means from the State of Missouri
    An excerpt from the transcribed interview of Thomas J. 
        Sobocinski, Sept. 7, 2023
    A letter from the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the 
        Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio, the 
        Honorable James Comer, Chair of the House Oversight 
        Committee from the State of Kentucky, and the Honorable 
        Bryan Steil, Chair of the Committee on House 
        Administration from the State of Wisconsin, Mar, 20, 
        2023, to the Hon. Alvin Bragg, District Attorney, New 
        York County
    A letter from the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the 
        Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio, the 
        Honorable James Comer, Chair of the House Oversight 
        Committee from the State of Kentucky, and the Honorable 
        Bryan Steil, Chair of the Committee on House 
        Administration from the State of Wisconsin, Mar. 25, 
        2023, to the Hon. Alvin Bragg, District Attorney, New 
        York
    A letter from the Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the 
        Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Ohio, Aug. 
        24, 2023, to Ms. Fanny Willis, District Attorney of 
        Fulton County
    An article entitled, ``Top IRS official latest witness to 
        dispute allegations from Whistleblower on Hunter Biden 
        tax case,'' Sept. 20, 2023, CNN

                 QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES FOR THE RECORD

Questions for Attorney General Garland, submitted by the 
  Honorable Mike Johnson, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of Louisiana, the Honorable Lance 
  Gooden, a Member of the Committee on the Judiciary from the 
  State of Texas, the Honorable Harriet Hageman, a Member of the 
  Committee on the Judiciary from the State of Wyoming, the 
  Honorable Mary Gay Scanlon, a Member of the Committee on the 
  Judiciary from the State of Pennsylvania, for the record
    No response at the time of publication

 
                    OVERSIGHT OF THE U.S. DEPARTMENT
                               OF JUSTICE

                              ----------                              


                     Wednesday, September 20, 2023

                        House of Representatives

                       Committee on the Judiciary

                             Washington, DC

    The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., in 
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, the Hon. Jim Jordan 
[Chair of the Committee] presiding.
    Members present: Representatives Jordan, Issa, Buck, Gaetz, 
Johnson of Louisiana, Biggs, McClintock, Tiffany, Massie, Roy, 
Bishop, Spartz, Fitzgerald, Bentz, Cline, Gooden, Van Drew, 
Nehls, Moore, Kiley, Hageman, Moran, Lee, Fry, Nadler, Lofgren, 
Jackson Lee, Cohen, Johnson of Georgia, Schiff, Cicilline, 
Swalwell, Lieu, Jayapal, Correa, Neguse, McBath, Dean, Escobar, 
Ross, Bush, Ivey, and Balint.
    Chair Jordan. The Committee will come to order. Without 
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a recess at any 
time. We welcome everyone to today's hearing on Oversight of 
the Department of Justice.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California to 
lead us all in the Pledge and please stand.
    Mr. Issa. If you will please face whichever flag is most 
appropriate for your direction.
    All. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States 
of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one 
Nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for 
all.
    Chair Jordan. The Chair now recognizes himself for an 
opening statement. The fix is in. Even with the face-saving 
indictment last week of Hunter Biden, everyone knows the fix is 
in. Four and a half years, 4\1/2\ years, the Department of 
Justice has been investigating Mr. Biden, an investigation run 
by David Weiss, an investigation that limited the number of 
witnesses agents that could be interview; an investigation that 
prohibited agents from referring to the President as the ``big 
guy'' in any of the interviews they did get to do; an 
investigation that curtailed attempts to interview Mr. Biden by 
giving the [inaudible] a heads up; an investigation that 
notified Mr. Biden's defense counsel about a pending search 
warrant; and an investigation run by Mr. Weiss, run by Mr. 
Weiss, where they told the Congress three different stories in 
33 days.
    They told this Committee on June 7th, David Weiss said, ``I 
have ultimate authority to determine when, where, and whether 
to bring charges.'' Twenty-three days later, June 30th, he told 
this Committee actually I can only bring charges in my U.S. 
Attorney's District, the District of Delaware. Then, to further 
confuse matters, on July 10th, he told Senator Graham I have 
not sought Special Counsel status, rather I have had 
discussions with the Department of Justice. An investigation 
run by Mr. Weiss that negotiated a plea deal, that the Federal 
District Court declined to accept, a plea deal so ridiculous 
the judge asked this question, ``Is there any precedence for 
agreeing not to prosecute crimes that have nothing to do with 
the charges being diverted?'' The response from the DOJ lawyer, 
``I am not aware of any, Your Honor.'' A plea deal so 
ridiculous that the judge also asked ``have you ever seen a 
diversion agreement where the agreement not to prosecute was so 
broad that it encompasses crimes in a different case?'' The 
response from the DOJ lawyer, ``No, Your Honor, we haven't.''
    An investigation run by Mr. Weiss that not only had a 
sweetheart deal rejected, but according to The New York Times, 
there was an even sweeter deal, an earlier deal, a deal where 
Mr. Biden would not have to plead guilty to anything. Four and 
a half years, and all that and now we get a Special Counsel. 
Now, we have a Special Counsel and who does the Attorney 
General pick? David Weiss, the guy who let all that happen. He 
could have selected anyone. He could have picked anyone inside 
government or outside government. He could have picked former 
Attorney Generals, former Special Counsels, but he picks the 
one guy, the one guy he knows will protect Joe Biden. He picks 
David Weiss.
    Here is what the AG said in his August 11th announcement of 
David Weiss as the Special Counsel, ``I am confident that Mr. 
Weiss will carry out his responsibility in an even-handed and 
urgent manner.'' Urgent manner? Every witness we have talked 
to, the two FBI Whistleblowers that came forward, Mr. Shapley, 
Mr. Zeigler; the two FBI agents on the case, Mr. Sobocinski, 
Ms. Holley, they have all said this thing was anything but 
urgent. The FBI said they were frustrated at the pace. Ms. 
Holley said she was frustrated at the pace. Of course, the IRS 
agents, they said, ``the investigation was slow-walked.''
    Even-handed? They limited the number of witnesses that 
could be interviewed. They tipped off the defense counsel about 
a subpoena. The judge said the plea deal was a joke. All that 
is just half the story. There is one investigation protecting 
President Biden. There is another one attacking President 
Trump. The Justice Department has got both sides of the 
equation covered.
    Look at the classified documents case. Spring and early 
summer of last year, the Department of Justice asked President 
Trump to turn over boxes of documents. He does just that. In 
the process, President Trump finds 38 additional documents. He 
tells the Department of Justice. The very next day the FBI 
comes to his home, and he turns them over. Then the Department 
of Justice asked the President to put any boxes he brought from 
the White House to his home in a storage room and secure it by 
locking it. He does that as well. Everything they asked him to 
do he did. Then what does the Justice Department do? August 
8th, last year, they raid President Trump's home. According to 
the FBI agent, Stephen D'Antuono, the Assistant Director in 
Charge of the Washington Field Office, the search was a 
complete departure from standard protocol.
    When we interviewed Mr. D'Antuono, he said first, ``the 
Miami Field Office didn't do the search. They had to send folks 
from D.C.'' He said there was no U.S. Attorney assigned to the 
case. Instead, it was run by D.C. and, in particular, Jay 
Bratt, who is now on the Special Counsel team. He said, ``the 
FBI didn't get President Trump's council's approval before they 
did the search.'' Then Mr. D'Antuono told us he had recommended 
that when the FBI got to Mr. Trump's home, President Trump's 
home, they contacted his counsel, waited for him to get there, 
and do the search together. Of course, the DOJ said no. Then 
who does the Attorney General name as Special Counsel, in that 
case, Jack Smith, the guy who a few years ago, looking for ways 
to prosecute Americans, targeted by lowest learner in the IRS, 
looking to prosecute the very victims of the weaponized 
government, the weaponized IRS.
    Jack Smith, the guy who prosecuted Governor McDonald, only 
to have the Supreme Court overturn that prosecution in a 
unanimous decision, that is the guy--that is the guy that the 
Attorney General of the United States selects as Special 
Counsel. You wonder why four out of five Americans believe 
there are now two standards of justice in our great country.
    Mr. Garland, I anticipate a number of questions on these 
two investigations. Later in the hearing, I expect from 
Republicans you will also get questions about the many other 
concerns the American people have with the Department, the 
school board's memorandum, treating of Catholics, a memo that 
said pro-life Catholics are extremists, the Fifth Circuit 
decision, great decision on the Department of Justice and other 
agencies, censoring Americans' speech, and of course, the FISA 
law that is up for reauthorization this year and how that 
process has been abused and infringes on the rights, privacy 
rights, of the American people.
    Americans believe that today in our country there is 
unequal application of the law. They believe that because there 
is. Republicans are committed to making that change. With that, 
I would yield to the gentleman from New York, the Ranking 
Member for an opening statement.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, at the outset, 
let me make two comments.

    (1) Just about every assertion you made in your opening 
statement has been completely refuted by witnesses who have 
testified before this Committee.
    (2) Far from being favored, many commentators have noted 
that people accused of simple gun possession while under the 
influence of a drug, and that gun was not used in the 
commission of a crime, are rarely, if ever, prosecuted the way 
Hunter Biden is being prosecuted.

    Mr. Chair, one of this Committee's most important duties is 
conducting oversight of the Department of Justice. We are 
called on to ensure that the DOJ uses the enormous amount of 
power it is granted in a fair, just manner that respects the 
civil and human rights of all Americans. The Attorney General 
of the United States oversees issues that affect the lives of 
each and every American. Violent crime, drug trafficking, 
attacks on our civil rights, threats to our national security, 
and environmental crimes all fall under his purview. That is 
why we regularly request that he or she appear before this 
Committee to speak about the work the Department is doing for 
the welfare of the country. This is how we ensure that the 
Department stays accountable to the American people.
    If it were up to the Republicans, Americans would hear 
nothing about any of these substantive issues today. They would 
hear nothing about the rise in domestic terrorism and what the 
Justice Department is doing about it. They would hear nothing 
about what the Department is doing to stop hate crimes and 
prevent gun violence. They would hear nothing about how the 
Department is disrupting efforts by Russia, China, and others 
to interfere in our elections.
    Extreme MAGA Republicans have poisoned our vital oversight 
work. They have ignored our legitimate oversight 
responsibilities and use their power to stage one political 
stunt after another. They have wasted countless taxpayer 
dollars on baseless investigations into President Biden and his 
family, desperate to find evidence for an absurd impeachment, 
and desperate to distract from the mounting legal peril facing 
Donald Trump. They have fought tirelessly to stop efforts to 
fight malign foreign actors trying to influence and manipulate 
Americans through social media. They have unConstitutionally 
interfered in criminal litigation and attempted to bully State 
and local law enforcement officers.
    They have publicized the names of witnesses who did not 
further their political goals, leading to threats of death and 
physical violence against those witnesses and their families. 
They have caused any number of private institutions and 
companies millions of dollars in legal fees as they struggle to 
respond to ridiculous and over-broad requests for information 
and transcribed interviews. They have issued subpoenas for 
show, without making meaningful attempts to get the information 
they seek by consent. They have levied low, baseless personal 
attacks on any prosecutor to bring charges against Donald Trump 
or January 6th rioters. They have attempted to discredit 
investigators who are not hard enough on Donald Trump's 
political opponents.
    They have supported those involved in the deadly attack on 
our Capital on January 6th in an attempt to overthrow a lawful 
election. They have justified conduct that we all know to be 
widely illegal, like the theft of classified materials and 
incitement to violence. Through it all, rather than try to 
unite the country or solve the problems that affect us all, 
they have sought to exploit our divisions for cynical, 
personal, and political gain. That is their goal, division. 
They want to divide this country and make our government appear 
like it is broken because that is when their broken political 
party thrives.
    So, today, I implore the public to see through the sham. I 
have no doubt that you will hear a deluge of conspiracy 
theories and baseless accusations. They will quote freely from 
so-called Whistleblowers who have been broadly discredited or 
contradicted. They will viciously attack Federal law 
enforcement. They will tell you that all 91 criminal charges 
against Donald Trump are part of a conspiracy, despite 
overwhelming evidence of each of Donald Trump's crimes. They 
will attack Special Counsel Weiss who was appointed, let us not 
forget, by Donald Trump for not being hard enough on Hunter 
Biden.
    Republicans will continue doing what they have done for 
years, discrediting anyone who does not serve their political 
goals at any cost. The shame of it is that in this hearing 
room, like on the House floor where are barreling toward a 
government shutdown while my Republican colleagues call each 
other names, we could be working together to put people over 
politics and to solve any number of problems affecting the 
American people.
    More than 30,000 Americans have died from gun violence so 
far this year alone. Guns have become the leading cause of 
death for children ages 1-17, surpassing car accidents. 
Domestic violence extremism and White nationalism are on the 
rise. We are seeing active clubs and other White supremacist 
groups pop up around the country. Antisemitism is at an all-
time high. Malign foreign actors like Russia, China, Iran, and 
North Korea, are attempting to influence our elections.
    Political rhetoric is causing threats against law 
enforcement officials to skyrocket. Our immigration court 
system is in desperate need of reform. Our election workers 
receive death threats from conspiracy theory driven extremists. 
Fentanyl is filling our streets and poisoning our children at 
historic rates. This list goes on and on and we, the people in 
this room are in a position to do something about it. In fact, 
it is our duty to do something about it, consistent with the 
oath we took when we were sworn in as Members of Congress.
    We could work with the Department of Justice and Attorney 
General Garland to address any number of real substantive 
problems facing the American people. Instead, House Republicans 
will use their time today to talk about long discredited 
conspiracy theories and Hunter Biden's laptop. They will do it 
because they care more about Donald Trump than they do about 
their own constituents.
    I hope my colleagues will see reason and at least attempt 
to work with the Attorney General in good faith. Sadly, on the 
other side of the aisle, reason and good faith seem to be in 
short supply.
    In any event, Mr. Attorney General, I thank you for your 
testimony and thank you in advance for your patience. I yield 
back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. Without objection, 
all other opening statements will be included in the record.
    We will now introduce today's witness.
    The Honorable Merrick Garland is the Attorney General of 
the United States. He was sworn in on March 11, 2021. We 
welcome our witness and thank him for appearing today. We will 
begin by swearing you in. Will you please rise and raise your 
right hand.
    Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the 
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best 
of your knowledge, information, and belief so help you God?
    Let the record show that the witness has answered in the 
affirmative. Thank you. You can be seated, please. Know that 
your written testimony will be entered into the record in its 
entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you summarize your 
testimony--you know how this is done, Mr. Garland, you have 
been here before. We want to again thank you for being here. 
You are welcome to give your opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL MERRICK GARLAND

    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry, is this working?
    Chair Jordan. You got it.
    Attorney General Garland. Thank you. Good morning, Chair 
Jordan, Ranking Member Nadler, distinguished Members of this 
Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you 
on behalf of the more than 115,000 employees of the Department 
of Justice.
    Since the Justice Department was founded, it has been 
tasked with confronting some of the most challenging issues 
before the country. Today, we are handling matters of 
significant public interest that carry great consequences for 
our democracy. A lot has been said about the Justice 
Department, about who we are and what we are doing, about what 
our job is and what it is not and about why we do this work. I 
want to provide some clarity.
    First, who we are. The Justice Department is made up of 
more than 115,000 men and women who work in every State and 
communities across the country and around the globe. They are 
FBI, DEA, ATF agents, and United States Marshals who risk their 
lives to serve their communities. They are prosecutors and 
staff who work tirelessly to enforce our laws. The overwhelming 
majority are career public servants, meaning that they were not 
appointed by the President of any party.
    Second, I want to provide clarity about what the job of the 
Justice Department is and about what it is not. Our job is to 
help keep our country safe. That includes working closely with 
local police departments and communities across the country to 
combat violent crime. In fact, today, we are announcing the 
results of a recent U.S. Marshals operation conducted with 
State and local law enforcement. That operation targeted 
violent fugitives and resulted in 4,400 arrests across 20 
cities in just three months.
    Our work also includes combating the drug cartels that are 
poisoning Americans. Last Friday, we expedited Ovidio Guzman 
Lopez, a leader of the Sinaloa cartel from Mexico to the United 
States. He is the son of El Chapo and one of more than a dozen 
cartel members we have indicted and extradited to the United 
States.
    Our job includes seeking justice for the survivors of child 
exploitation, human smuggling, and sex trafficking and it 
includes protecting democratic institutions like this one, by 
holding accountable all those criminally responsible for the 
January 6th attack on the Capital.
    Our job is also to protect civil rights. That includes 
protecting our freedoms as Americans to worship and think as we 
please and to peacefully express our opinions, our beliefs, and 
our ideas. It includes protecting the right of every eligible 
citizen to vote and to have that vote counted. It includes 
combating discrimination, defending reproductive rights under 
law, and deterring and prosecuting acts such as hate crimes.
    Our job is to uphold the rule of law. That means we apply 
the same laws to everyone. There is not one set of laws for the 
powerful and another for the powerless; one for the rich and 
another for the poor; or one for Democrats and another for 
Republicans; or different rules depending on one's race, 
ethnicity, or religion.
    Our job is to pursue justice without fear or favor. Our job 
is not to do what is politically convenient. Our job is not to 
take orders from the President, from Congress, or from anyone 
else about who or what we criminally investigate. As the 
President himself has said and I reaffirm today, I am not the 
President's lawyer. I will add I am not Congress' prosecutor. 
The Justice Department works for the American people. Our job 
is to follow the facts and the law and that is what we do.
    All of us recognize that with this work comes public 
scrutiny, criticism, and legitimate oversight. These are 
appropriate and important given the matters and the gravity of 
the matters that are before the Department. Singling out 
individual career public servants who are just doing their jobs 
is dangerous, particularly at a time of increased threats to 
the safety of public servants and their families. We will not 
be intimidated. We will do our jobs free from outside influence 
and we will not back down from defending our democracy.
    Third, I want to explain why we approach our job in this 
way. The Justice Department was founded in the wake of the 
Civil War and in the midst of Reconstruction with the first 
principal task of bringing to justice White supremacists and 
others who terrorize Black Americans to prevent them from 
exercising their civil rights. The Justice Department's job 
then and now is to fulfill the promise that is at the 
foundation of our democracy. The law will treat each of us 
alike. That promise is also why I am here.
    My family fled religious persecution in Eastern Europe at 
the start of the 20th century. My grandmother was one of five 
children, born in what is now Belarus, made it to the United 
States as did two of her siblings. The other two did not. Those 
two were killed in the Holocaust. There is little doubt that 
but for America, the same thing would have happened to my 
grandmother. This country took her in and under the protection 
of our laws, she was able to live without fear of persecution. 
That protection is what distinguishes this country from so many 
others.
    The protection of law, the rule of law is the foundation of 
our system of government. We are paying this country for the 
debt my family owes for our very lives has been the focus of my 
entire professional career. That is why I served in the Justice 
Department under five different Attorneys General, under both 
Democratic and Republican Administrations. That is why I spent 
more than 25 years ensuring the rule of law as a judge. That is 
why I left a lifetime appointment as a judge and came back to 
the Justice Department 2\1/2\ years ago. That is why I am here 
today. I look forward to your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Attorney General Garland 
follows:]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chair Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. You are 
right, America is the greatest country ever and we are, we on 
this side are very concerned about the equal application of the 
law that you talk about in your opening statement. With that, 
we will move to the five-minute questions, and we will start 
with the gentleman from Louisiana, Mr. Johnson.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Thank you. Mr. Weiss, the rule of 
law does distinguish our country, but you have not upheld that. 
You have allowed the rule of law to erode and that is why 65 
percent of the people in this country have no faith in the 
Department of Justice under your leadership. They don't trust 
it. They don't trust you. The reason is because they are 
witnessing every day a politicized Justice Department and a 
two-tiered system of justice.
    For example, they see the DOJ, of course, aggressively 
prosecuting President Biden's chief political rival, Mr. Trump, 
while at the same time they see slow-walking and special 
treatment given to the President's son. That is just a fact 
that everybody can see with their own two eyes.
    I want to focus on that investigation of the Biden family. 
We have many important questions for you today about that.
    Let me just get right to the chase. Has anyone from the 
White House provided direction at any time to you, personally, 
or to any senior officials at the DOJ regarding how the Hunter 
Biden investigation was to be carried out?
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Have you had personal contact 
with anyone at FBI headquarters about the Hunter Biden 
investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't recollect the answer to 
that question, but the FBI works for the Justice Department.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I am sorry, I am sorry. You don't 
recollect--you don't recollect whether you have talked with 
anybody at FBI headquarters about an investigation into the 
President's son?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't believe that I did. I 
promised the Senate when I came before it for confirmation that 
I would leave Mr. Weiss in place and then I would not interfere 
with his investigation.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. OK, did you ever--
    Attorney General Garland. I have kept that promise.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. All right. Have you had personal 
contact with anybody at the Baltimore Field Office on the 
Hunter Biden matter?
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. On July 10, 2023, U.S. Attorney 
David Weiss told Senator Lindsay Graham,

        I had discussions with departmental officials regarding 
        potential appointment under 28 U.S.C. 515, which would have 
        allowed me to file charges in a district outside my own without 
        the partnership of the local U.S. Attorney.

With whom did Mr. Weiss have those discussions?
    Attorney General Garland. I am not going to get into the 
internal deliberations of the Department.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Oh, but you must, sir. This is 
important for us. We have oversight responsibility over your 
Department, and we need these answers.
    Attorney General Garland. It is appropriate and necessary 
for Mr. Weiss to have conversations with the Department. I made 
clear that if he wanted to bring a case to any jurisdiction, he 
would be able to do that. The way you do that is to get an 
order signed by the Attorney General called a 515 Order. I 
promised he would be able to do that and he in his letters made 
clear he understood he would be able to do that.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. OK. Can you tell us about any 
briefings or discussions that you personally have had with Mr. 
Weiss regarding any Federal investigations of Hunter Biden?
    Attorney General Garland. I am going to say again, I 
promised the Senate that I would not interfere with Mr. 
Weiss'--
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. So, you have not--under oath 
today, your testimony is you have not had any discussions with 
Mr. Weiss about this matter?
    Attorney General Garland. Under oath, my testimony today is 
that I promised the Senate I would not intrude in his 
investigation. I do not intend to discuss internal Justice 
Department deliberations whether or not I had them.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Oh, OK. So, your testimony today 
is that you are not going to tell us whether you have had 
discussions with Mr. Weiss?
    Attorney General Garland. My testimony today is I told the 
Committee that I would not interfere. I made clear that Mr. 
Weiss would have the authority to bring cases that he thought 
were appropriate.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. OK.
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss is--
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Let me stop you--for a second 
time, sir, are you aware that FBI officials have come before 
this Committee, and they have stated that there was a 
cumbersome bureaucratic process that Mr. Weiss had to go 
through to bring charges in another judicial district? Do you 
know that?
    Attorney General Garland. I am not aware, but that is not 
true. There is nothing cumbersome about the process.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. So, those Whistleblowers are 
lying to us under oath? Those Whistleblowers are lying?
    Attorney General Garland. I didn't say that. Their 
description of the process, cumbersome, is an opinion. It is 
not a fact question. All I have to do is--
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. OK, all right. Let me get to the 
fact. Mr. Weiss has been the lead prosecutor on the Hunter 
Biden case since 2018, correct?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry?
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. Mr. Weiss has been the lead 
prosecutor on the Hunter Biden since 2018. Now, here is the 
question.
    Attorney General Garland. He has been the lead prosecutor 
since he was appointed by President Trump.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. OK, let me ask you, why has the 
Justice Department dragged this investigation out for so long? 
Does it really take years to determine if Hunter Biden lied on 
a Federal form related to purchasing a firearm?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was a long-time career 
prosecutor. President Trump appointed him as--
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. You are not answering the 
question. Is that standard procedure? Should it take that long 
to make such a simple determination?
    Attorney General Garland. I am answering the question. Give 
me an opportunity to do so.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. OK.
    Attorney General Garland. He was charged with that 
investigation under the previous administration. He has 
continued. He knows how to conduct investigations and I have 
not intruded or attempted to evaluate that because that was the 
promise I made to the Senate.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. The Whistleblowers gave us 
testimony about serious misconduct of the Justice Department in 
regard to the preferential treatment afforded Hunter Biden. Has 
your office requested an investigation into that?
    Attorney General Garland. There are well-known processes 
for how Whistleblowers make their claims. I am a strong 
proponent of Whistleblowers and a strong defender. We have an 
Inspector General's Office. We have an Office of Professional 
Responsibility. That is the way in which complaints and 
Whistleblowers should be and are appropriately handled.
    Mr. Johnson of Louisiana. I am out of time. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. The Chair 
recognizes the Ranking Member, Mr. Nadler.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Attorney General, thank you for 
being here today. It is no secret that some of my colleagues 
across the aisle have threatened to shut down the government 
unless and until the FBI and the Department of Justice are 
defunded. One Trump-like Presidential Candidate has said that 
we should abolish the FBI altogether.
    Mr. Attorney General, what would be the impact on America 
of defunding the FBI?
    Attorney General Garland. Defunding the FBI would leave the 
United States naked to the malign influence of the Chinese 
Communist Party; to the attacks by Iranians on American 
citizens and attempts assassinate former officials; to the 
Russian aggression; to North Korean cyberattacks; to violent 
crime in the United States, which the FBI helps to fight 
against; to all kinds of espionage; and to domestic violent 
extremists who have attacked our churches, our synagogues, our 
mosques, and who have killed individuals out of racial hatred.
    I just cannot imagine the consequences of defunding the 
FBI, but they would be catastrophic.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    I want to turn to Mr. Weiss' investigation and the 
authority he has been granted to conduct that investigation 
without interference in whatever way he deems necessary. You 
testified to the Senate Judiciary Committee on March 1st of 
this year that David Mr. Weiss had, quote, ``full authority 
over any investigation concerning Hunter Biden.'' Was that a 
true statement at the time?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Mr. Weiss has full authority 
to conduct his investigation however he wishes, and Mr. Weiss 
has confirmed that in letters to this Committee.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    This authority included ensuring that Weiss would be able 
to bring charges in jurisdictions outside of Delaware, if 
necessary, is that correct?
    Attorney General Garland. I assured Mr. Weiss publicly that 
he would have the authority to bring a case outside of Delaware 
if he thought that was appropriate.
    Mr. Nadler. Does that remain true today?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, that is true today.
    Mr. Nadler. Has it ever been the case over the course of 
this investigation that Mr. Weiss would not have been able to 
bring charges outside of Delaware, if warranted?
    Attorney General Garland. As a matter of my authority, I 
promised he would be able to do that. I think this is apparent 
in the letters exchanged with the Committee and in my last 
previous testimony. For a United States Attorney or a Special 
Counsel, or anyone else, to bring a case outside of his 
jurisdiction, it requires me to sign--it requires me to sign a 
paper called Section 515, and that's the statute which permits 
bringing cases outside of the jurisdiction. I promised that I 
would do whatever was required to enable Mr. Weiss to bring a 
case outside of his jurisdiction, if that's what he thought was 
appropriate.
    Mr. Nadler. I assume it is your understanding that Mr. 
Weiss is fully aware that he could bring charges outside of 
Delaware, if necessary, when you testified on March 1st?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss has said so in the 
letters he sent to this Committee.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Did he ever say or do anything--did he ever say or do 
anything that might make him unsure of where he could bring 
charges?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss' own letters reflect 
that he had never asked me to be a Special Counsel and that he 
understood the process for asking for a signature on Section 
515 form.
    Mr. Nadler. There have been accusations that the handling 
of the Hunter Biden matter is an example of a two-tiered system 
of justice. What's your response to that allegation?
    Attorney General Garland. The Justice Department treats 
everyone alike. Regardless of party, regardless of ethnicity, 
regardless of wealth, everyone is treated alike.
    I understand that people may not understand why particular 
investigations are conducted in particular ways until all the 
facts come out. That's what we have the courts for. All the 
explanations will come out with respect to Mr. Weiss, for 
example, at the end of his period as Special Counsel. One of 
the requirements is that he file a public--a report which I 
have promised to make public to the extent that it's lawful and 
consistent with Department policy. It will explain his 
decisions to prosecute and not to prosecute.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    What are the impacts of Members of Congress making such 
accusations against the DOJ? Do baseless accusations from 
government officials make it more difficult for investigators 
to do their job and effectively investigate the subject?
    Attorney General Garland. Members of the Justice Department 
are strong and tough and able to understand that their job is 
to do the right thing, regardless of any pressures from any 
order. What is dangerous--and I'm not talking about the 
Committee--but what is dangerous is when anyone singles out a 
career prosecutor or a career FBI agent. We know as a matter of 
fact that this kind of singling out has led to threats. This is 
a concern across the board. It is not a concern for anyone in 
particular.
    Mr. Nadler. I think you would have been justified in 
referring to the Committee.
    My time is expired. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from North Carolina.
    Mr. Bishop. Mr. Attorney General, you're the only person 
who could ensure that Mr. Weiss had all the necessary 
authority, aren't you?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm the only person who can sign 
an agreement with respect to a Special Counsel. The authority 
to do Section 515 can be signed by other people in the 
Department.
    Mr. Bishop. You are aware, ultimately, though, the 
authority is yours.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Mr. Bishop. You made the point that you don't take orders 
from the President about such things. You decide, ultimately, 
what the Justice Department will do?
    Attorney General Garland. I announced at the beginning, I 
promised that he would be able to bring whatever cases he 
wants, and I have followed through on that promise. I'm 
permitted to make that kind of promise and I have made it.
    Mr. Bishop. Did you undertake to inform yourself, to 
interact with him sufficient to ensure that he knew he 
possessed that authority? Or that you would see to it that he 
had all the necessary authority?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't think there's any doubt 
that he knew. He has written three letters to this Committee 
indicating that he understood he had that authority.
    Mr. Bishop. You're also aware, though, aren't you, sir, 
that a senior IRS investigator, a Whistleblower, came forward 
and has testified publicly that Mr. Weiss stated that he did 
not have such authority; he was not the decider? Are you aware 
of that?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm aware of the testimony. I was 
not present at any point during that statement.
    Mr. Bishop. Have you--
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss has indicated--Mr. 
Weiss, who was present, has indicated that he had the authority 
and he knew that he had it.
    Mr. Bishop. Subsequent to those developments, though, you 
decided to make Mr. Weiss Special Counsel, which you had not 
done before?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss made clear he had not 
asked me to be Special Counsel until last month, and last month 
I made him Special Counsel.
    Mr. Bishop. Did you have some lack of information that you 
should have had that would have caused you to act earlier to 
make him Special Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss did not ask to be 
Special Counsel before--
    Mr. Bishop. I understand he didn't ask. You've said that, 
sir. Did you take the necessary steps to inform yourself what 
authority he understood he had or what obstacles he was 
encountering?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss had, as I said from the 
beginning, at the very beginning, that he had authority over 
all matters that pertained to Hunter Biden.
    Mr. Bishop. Have you you learned that he was, in fact, 
deterred by decisions of the United States Attorneys in the 
District of Columbia and the Northern District of California 
from proceeding as he thought best?
    Attorney General Garland. With respect, Congressman, Mr. 
Weiss has said--he has not said that he was deterred. He said 
that he followed the normal processes of the Department and 
that he was never denied the ability to bring a case in another 
jurisdiction.
    Mr. Bishop. Well, what changed, then, Mr. Attorney General? 
What made you decide that it was sufficient to leave him in the 
situation he was until you decided to make him Special Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss asked for that 
authority, given the extraordinary circumstances of this 
matter, and given my promise that I would give him any 
resources he requested, I made him Special Counsel.
    Mr. Bishop. So, until that time, was it just a matter of 
his predilection or did you--did you undertake to investigate 
and discern what he was doing with his authority and whether he 
had faced any obstacles?
    Attorney General Garland. I did not endeavor to investigate 
because I had promised that I would not interfere with this 
investigation. The way to not interfere is to not investigate 
an investigation.
    Mr. Bishop. Once he requested to be named Special Counsel, 
having not done so over months and months of your tenure, did 
you ask him what had changed--that made him now need to be a 
Special Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss asked to be made 
Special Counsel. I had promised that I would give him all the 
resources he needed, and I made him Special Counsel.
    Mr. Bishop. When did the Justice Department permit statutes 
of limitations to expire on some of the prospective charges 
against Hunter Biden for tax violations?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know anything about the 
statute of limitations here. The investigation was in the hands 
of Mr. Weiss to make the determinations that he thought were 
appropriate.
    Mr. Bishop. Are you unaware that the tax statute of 
limitations has been allowed to expire after their having been 
tolling agreements in place?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm going to say again, the 
determination of where to bring cases and which kinds of cases 
to bring was left to Mr. Weiss.
    Mr. Bishop. Yes, sir, I understand that you've said that. 
That's part of the problem. The question is, are you aware the 
statutes of limitations have been allowed to expire while the 
matter was under investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. The investigators were fully 
familiar with all the relevant law--
    Mr. Bishop. I'm not asking for the excuses.
    Attorney General Garland. They--
    Mr. Bishop. I'm asking you whether you are aware of that 
fact, sir.
    Attorney General Garland. I'm going to say again--I'm going 
to say again, and again, if necessary--I did not interfere 
with, did not investigate, did not make determinations--
    Mr. Bishop. See, those are statements in response to other 
questions.
    Attorney General Garland. Well--
    Mr. Bishop. Everybody in the country now knows who's paying 
attention to this; that the Justice Department permitted 
statutes of limitations to expire. Every lawyer who's ever 
practiced understands the implications of allowing statutes of 
limitations to expire.
    Attorney General Garland. Prosecutors--
    Mr. Bishop. Do you now even know, as you sit here, whether 
it occurred or not?
    Attorney General Garland. Prosecutors make appropriate 
determinations on their own. In this case, I left it to Mr. 
Weiss whether to bring charges or not. That would include 
whether to let the statute of limitations expire or not; 
whether there was sufficient evidence to bring a case that was 
subject to the statute of limitations or not; whether there 
were better cases to bring or not.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman has expired.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from California.
    Ms. Lofgren. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you, Attorney General, for being here with us this 
morning.
    As much as we see dirt being thrown in the air, there's a 
lot of misinformation that I think is intended to confuse 
people. I would like to ask unanimous consent to put into the 
record three letters from Mr. Weiss that he sent to Congress on 
June 7th, June 30th, and July 10th.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Ms. Lofgren. He said over and over again that he has full 
authority over this case, including the ability to seek Special 
Counsel or Special Attorney status, if needed. Trying to imply 
otherwise is just simply false.
    Mr. Weiss was appointed by then-President Trump. Your 
decision was to leave the Trump-appointed attorney completely 
in charge of this, hands off from you. He makes all the calls 
without interference from the Attorney General, is that 
correct?
    Attorney General Garland. That is correct.
    Ms. Lofgren. So, the idea that you would interfere is 
completely wrong. I would also like to ask--you talked about 
your independence from the President, but also your 
independence from the Congress. Have you ever come across, 
historically, an instance where the Congress of the United 
States tried to or successfully interfered with a prosecution 
initiated by the Department of Justice, based on the facts and 
the law?
    Attorney General Garland. I want to be gentle about the 
word ``interfere,'' but it is, just as a historical example, in 
the case of Iran-Contra, the consequences of actions by the 
Congress were that the Special Counsel's investigation of Iran, 
of Mr. North were dismissed.
    Ms. Lofgren. Correct. Before I go into another question I 
have, I just would like unanimous consent to put into the 
record the Annual Statistical Transparency Report, dated April 
2023. It indicates that the de-duplicated counting method for 
FBI queries of U.S. persons under the Section 702 database 
numbered over 119,000.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Ms. Lofgren. I would just like to note--and we will work 
with you--this Committee, on a bipartisan basis is very 
concerned about querying of the 702 databases for U.S. persons 
without a warrant. We're not suggesting that the law does not 
permit that, but we are going to visit this issue because it is 
my view that querying the 702 database that has been collected 
without due process, because it relates to foreign individuals, 
is completely wrong in terms of the privacy rights of 
Americans. I am just hoping that we can work successfully with 
you, as we craft requirements for a warrant to do that 
querying.
    I'd like to ask, as we know--and it has been mentioned by 
the Ranking Member--the proposal is, basically, to defund the 
police by the Republicans, to defund the FBI. I am concerned 
that, if we defund the police, as the majority has suggested, 
that really doesn't have an impact on the statute of 
limitations.
    So, if we were to defund the Department of Justice, defund 
the FBI and the police, as has been suggested, what would 
happen with the statute of limitations for cases that you are 
pursuing, if you were not able to actually do that? Would they 
be suspended in any way, or would the criminals get off scot-
free?
    Attorney General Garland. Well, I know in my experience as 
a judge, if I was asked a legal question and I don't know the 
answer, I would go back to the office and study it, and I'll 
have to do that in this case. I don't have the answer.
    Ms. Lofgren. Well, I think I do, because there's nothing in 
the statute that allows for the statute of limitations to be 
suspended because the government has been shut down or because 
the police have been defunded through the budget process. I 
just think we ought to take the implications of a shutdown very 
seriously in terms of allowing criminals to get off.
    I see that my time is expired, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back.
    The Chair has now recognized himself. Quote, ``Mr. Weiss 
has full authority to bring cases in other jurisdictions if he 
feels it's necessary.''
    That was your response, Attorney General, to Senator 
Grassley's question on March 1, 2023. You just referenced it 
when Mr. Bishop was questioning you.
    The only problem is, he had already been turned down by the 
U.S. Attorney in the District of Columbia, Mr. Graves. So, he 
didn't have full authority, did he?
    Attorney General Garland. I had an extended conversation 
with Senator Grassley at the time. We briefly touched on the 
Section 515 question and how that process went.
    I've never been suggesting--
    Chair Jordan. My point is really simple. My point's really 
simple, Mr. Garland. You said he had complete authority, but 
he'd already been turned down.
    Attorney General Garland. He can't be--
    Chair Jordan. He wanted to bring an action in the District 
of Columbia, and the U.S. Attorney there said, ``No, you 
can't.'' Then, you go tell the U.S. Senate, under oath, that he 
has complete authority.
    Attorney General Garland. I'm going to say again that no 
one had the authority to turn him down. They could refuse to 
partner with him. They could not--
    Chair Jordan. You can use whatever language. ''Refuse to 
partner'' is turning down.
    Attorney General Garland. Well, it's not the same under a 
well-known Justice Department practice.
    Chair Jordan. Here's why the statute of limitations 
question is important, and Mr. Bishop was getting at it just a 
few minutes ago. Here's why it's important: You let the statute 
of limitations lapse for 2014-2015. Those were the years with 
the felony tax charges where Hunter Biden was getting income 
from Burisma.
    Here are four facts that I think are so important:

    Fact 1: Hunter Biden was put on the board of Burisma, made 
a lot of money. Got paid a lot of money over those years, a 
couple of million bucks. He wasn't qualified.
    Fact 2: He wasn't qualified to be on the board of Burisma--
not my words; his words. He said he got on the board because of 
his last name, ``the brand,'' as Devon Archer said when he was 
under oath and we deposed him.
    Fact 3: Burisma executives told Hunter Biden, ``We're under 
pressure. We need help.''
    Fact 4: Joe Biden goes to Ukraine, leverages our tax money, 
the American people's tax money, to get the prosecutor fired 
who was applying the pressure.

    Interestingly enough, that fact is entirely consistent with 
what the confidential human source told the FBI, and they 
recorded in the 1023 form, the same form Mr. Wray didn't want 
to let this Committee and the Congress see.
    That all happened. That all happened. What I'm wondering is 
why you guys let the statute of limitations lapse for those tax 
years that dealt with Burisma income.
    Attorney General Garland. There's one more fact that's 
important, and that this investigation was being conducted by 
Mr. Weiss, an appointee of President Trump. You will, at the 
appropriate time, have the opportunity to ask Mr. Weiss that 
question, and he will, no doubt, address it in the public 
report that will be transmitted to Congress.
    I don't know the answer to those questions--
    Chair Jordan. Did they forget? Did the lawyers just like 
let it--they're just like, ``Oh, darn, we let it''--were they 
careless?
    Attorney General Garland. I expect that won't be what he 
says, but because I promised--
    Chair Jordan. That's not the case. Because, as Mr. Bishop 
pointed out, they had a tolling agreement. They talked to 
Hunter Biden's defense counsel and say, ``Let's extend the 
statute of limitations.'' Then, at some point, they made an 
intentional decision to say, ``We're going to let the statute 
of limitations lapse.'' I want to know who decided that and why 
they did it.
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was the supervisor of 
the investigation at that time and at all times. He made the 
necessary--appropriate decisions, and you'll be able to ask him 
that question, and he will--
    Chair Jordan. Do you know why they did it? Everyone knows 
why they did it. They may not say it, but everyone knows why 
they did it. They didn't--Burisma--those tax years, that 
statute--that dealt with the--that involved the President. It's 
one thing to have a gun charge in Delaware. That doesn't 
involve the President of the United States, but Burisma, oh, 
my, that goes right to the White House.
    We can't have that. We can slow-walk this thing along. We 
can even extend the statute of limitations, and then, we can 
intentionally let it lapse.
    We know this investigation was slow. Here's what everyone 
said:

Shapley said, ``DOJ slow-walked the investigation.''
Ziegler, ``Slow-walking in the approvals of everything. This 
        happened at the Delaware's Attorney's Office and DOJ 
        tax level.''
Mr. Sobocinski, the FBI agent, said, ``I would have liked to 
        see things move faster.''
Ms. Holley said the same.

    Every witness we've talked to say this thing was slow-
walked, and we know why. They slow-walked it long enough to let 
the statute of limitations run, so they wouldn't have to get 
into Burisma.
    Tell me where I'm wrong.
    Mr. Ivey. Will the gentleman yield?
    Chair Jordan. No. I'm asking Mr. Garland the question.
    Attorney General Garland. I think I've tried to make clear 
that I don't know the specifics of the investigation. Much of 
what you are describing occurred during the Trump 
Administration, during a Justice Department appointed by 
President Trump.
    Chair Jordan. No, it didn't. This is 4\1/2\ years, this 
investigation. We're talking the last few years. Your statement 
was just this year, March 1st, to Senator Grassley.
    Attorney General Garland. No. I'm sorry, I was trying to 
respond to your descriptions of what the IRS agent said about 
certain things--
    Chair Jordan. The statute of limitations is six years. That 
lapsed, that lapsed here in the Biden Administration.
    Attorney General Garland. On the statute of limitations, I 
will say again that the explanation for why the statute of 
limitations was lapsed, if it was, has to come from Mr. Weiss.
    Chair Jordan. My time is--but let me ask one last question 
really quick here.
    Who decided that David Weiss would stay on as U.S. 
Attorney?
    Attorney General Garland. This had occurred at--before I 
came, Mr. Weiss had been kept on. I promised the--
    Chair Jordan. No, I didn't say--you can walk all through 
that. I said, ``who decided?'' The White House decided?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss--
    Chair Jordan. They serve at the pleasure of the President, 
right?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was held--
    Chair Jordan. Joe Biden decided to keep David Weiss as U.S. 
Attorney. You weren't sworn in until March. He was left--maybe 
he was told he was going to stay on in February.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Mr. Chair, your time has expired.
    Chair Jordan. A pretty fundamental question. Who decided 
David Weiss was going to stay as U.S. Attorney in Delaware?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was--
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Mr. Chair, your time has expired.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, your time has expired.
    Chair Jordan. I'm waiting for an answer, and then, I'll 
yield.
    Mr. Ivey. Well, you asked the question after your time had 
expired already. Point of order.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman can respond. Then, I'll go to 
Ms. Jackson Lee.
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was the Special--U.S. 
Attorney from the District of Delaware when I came on. He had 
been appointed by President Trump. I promised that he would be 
permitted to stay on for this investigation, and that is what 
happened.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady--
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair? Mr. Chair?
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman from New York is recognized.
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair, I believe you misquoted from the 
transcript of the Senate, of the Senate hearing. I'd, 
therefore, ask unanimous consent to enter into the record the 
entire transcript of the Senate hearing.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection. I didn't misquote what Mr. 
Garland said.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Chair Jordan. Ms. Jackson Lee from Texas is recognized for 
five minutes.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    None of the Republicans' goals today include solving 
Americans' problems, of which they are concerned of.
    There are many reasons, Mr. Attorney General, that 
prosecutors decline to bring charges. One of those reasons is 
that they don't have any evidence for a conviction. That is the 
justice way. That is just in America.
    So, let me raise these questions and concerns with you 
today.
    As we all know, Republicans have repeatedly alleged that 
the DOJ and FBI are conspiring to shield the Biden family from 
public criticism and giving Hunter Biden special treatment in 
its investigations. They have demonized law enforcement 
officials working with this case at every turn, which has 
directly led to increased threats against FBI officials, law 
enforcement--which they pretend to support.
    I want to place into the record two excerpts from recent 
transcribed interviews, and I would ask that copies be made 
available to you.
    The first is from a June interview with Jennifer Moore, 
FBI's former Executive Assistant Director for Human Resources. 
She told this Committee that the FBI had received so many 
threats that it had to stand up an entire 10-person unit just 
to deal with them. She said it is unprecedented. It is: ''It's 
a number we have never had before.'' Moore testimony on pp. 
202-203.
    The second excerpt is from an interview earlier this month 
with Thomas Sobocinski, the Special Agent in Charge of FBI's 
Baltimore Field Office.
    Here's what he said:

          I joined the FBI 25 years ago. I joined for a reason--to 
        protect the American people, uphold the Constitution. I've been 
        to war. My family's been in bad places. My kids have been 
        evacuated from war zones or quasi-war zones. I've been in some 
        bad things. I have accepted that.

          I am solely focused on two things, and they are not mutually 
        exclusive. The first is, like every investigation, I want to 
        get to a resolution in a fair, apolitical way. The second 
        thing--it's becoming more important and more relevant--is 
        keeping my folks safe. That part, I have never expected--to 
        have to be able to be concerned about keeping family safe. So 
        that, for me, this is becoming more and more of a job that I 
        have to do and take away from what I was assigned or signed up 
        to do, which was to investigate and do these things.

          So, when you talk about potential frustrations with 
        communication, I am personally frustrated with anything that 
        places my employees and their families in enhanced danger. Our 
        children, their children, did not sign up for this.

    Mr. Attorney General, do you agree that politically charged 
rhetoric claiming that law enforcement agents--and I have many 
questions, if you can be brief--are corrupt and contribute to 
this onslaught of threats against public servants?
    Attorney General Garland. OK. As I said in my opening 
statement, we have had an astounding number of threats against 
public servants over the last several years. I think that when 
career public servants in the Justice Department and election 
workers, and airline crews, when they are singled out, this can 
lead to threats of violence and actual violence.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    Attorney General Garland. We have the actual example of an 
attack on an FBI office by somebody who was incensed by 
political rhetoric. This does happen. We must not allow that to 
happen in this country.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Does the rhetoric regarding the Biden case 
have any basis in reality?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the 
first part.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Does the rhetoric regarding the Biden case 
have any, any basis in reality?
    Attorney General Garland. No, it does not.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. How does this impact FBI and DOJ 
employees' ability to do their work? I think you mentioned, 
specifically, FBI and DOJ employees.
    Attorney General Garland. As I've already said, the agents 
of the FBI and the prosecutors understand that criticism comes 
with their job, and they will continue to do their jobs without 
fear or favor. The idea of threatening their safety or that of 
their families is just abhorrent.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you.
    I assume that provisions have had to be in place to protect 
these agents and their families.
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, I didn't hear the 
first part.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. I assume that provisions or protections 
have had to be in place to protect these agents and their 
families.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, that's correct.
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Let me move on. Thank you very much, 
General.
    Let me move on to the fentanyl crisis. I want to introduce 
H.R. 4272. Let me just put on the record, so that you can 
probably summarize--and I ask for the indulgence of my Chair. 
In any event, that the FBI, the DOJ, are focused, needlepoint-
focused, if you will, on the crisis of fentanyl. I want to just 
raise that for you, and then, I'm just going to followup with 
one or two other questions, if you would be able to comment on 
these collectively.
    I am dealing with the crisis of human trafficking and the 
prioritizing of America's children. They are under siege. The 
level of child sexual abuse materials generating into human 
trafficking--and I want to put H.R. 30 on the record--indicates 
from ICAC that there are 99,000 IP cases where they're enticing 
children, and maybe only one percent of them being 
investigated. I'd like your comment on that.
    Finally, in the approach of high--of Yom Kippur, to 
emphasize the work that is, hopefully, still being done with 
antisemitism, attacks on immigrants, African Americans, and 
Latinos.
    If you would answer those questions: Fentanyl, the human 
trafficking, and then, domestic terrorism.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, these are all horrendous 
problems propagated by people who are truly evil.
    We are fighting the fentanyl scourge in every possible way, 
starting with the precursors in China to the labs in Mexico, to 
the cartels that are bringing the drugs into the United States, 
to their networks in the United States, to the streets of 
America. We will continue to do that with every resource that 
Congress gives us.
    Human smuggling and sex trafficking are, obviously, 
abhorrent. The Justice Department has task forces on both of 
these subjects and has brought many, many cases on these 
subjects.
    The idea of putting sexually explicit material about 
children on the web is another area that we are continuing to 
investigate and to prosecute, and to ask the social media to 
take down from their sites.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady's time has expired.
    The gentleman from Florida is recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Gaetz. I guess I'm just wondering, Mr. Attorney 
General, has anyone at the Department told President Biden to 
knock it off--with Hunter? You guys are charging Hunter Biden 
on some crimes, investigating him on others. You've got the 
President bringing Hunter Biden around to State dinners. Has 
anyone told him to knock it off?
    Attorney General Garland. Our job in the Justice Department 
is to pursue our cases without reference to what is happening 
in the outside world.
    Mr. Gaetz. Just yes or no. Have you done that?
    Attorney General Garland. That is what we--
    Mr. Gaetz. So, it is a no?
    Attorney General Garland. No one that I know of has spoken 
to the White House about the Hunter Biden case.
    Mr. Gaetz. I am wondering--
    Attorney General Garland. Of course not.
    Mr. Gaetz. OK. I got it. I got it.
    So, Hunter Biden is selling art to pay for his $15,000 a 
month rent in Malibu. How can you guarantee that the people 
buying that art aren't doing so to gain favor with the 
President?
    Attorney General Garland. The job of the Justice Department 
is to investigate criminal allegations. If you have 
information--
    Mr. Gaetz. Are you investigating this? Someone who bought 
Hunter Biden's art ended up with a prestigious appointment to a 
Federal position. Doesn't it look weird that he is making, he 
has become this immediate success in the art world because his 
dad is President of the United States? Isn't that odd?
    Attorney General Garland. I am not going to comment about 
any--
    Mr. Gaetz. Not going to comment, not going to investigate.
    Attorney General Garland. That is right.
    Mr. Gaetz. Hunter Biden's associate, Devon Archer, told us 
that Hunter sold the appearance of access to then-Vice 
President Biden. Are you confident he has stopped doing that?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I didn't understand 
the question.
    Mr. Gaetz. Hunter Biden associate, Devon Archer, told us 
that Hunter sold the appearance of access to then-Vice 
President Biden. Are you confident he has stopped?
    Attorney General Garland. I am going to say again that all 
these matters are within the purview of Mr. Weiss. I have not 
interfered with them. I do not--
    Mr. Gaetz. Yes, but if you were confident that he had 
stopped, you could probably tell us.
    Attorney General Garland. I do not intend to interfere with 
it.
    Mr. Gaetz. Yes, I want to--so it was a lot of Chinese money 
that was working its way through these shell companies into the 
accounts of the Biden family. So, the China Initiative was set 
up during the Trump Administration at the Department of Justice 
to go after the malign influence of the Chinese Communist 
Party. The Biden Justice Department dissolved the China 
Initiative.
    So, I guess I am wondering, does the Department have any 
documents that would detail the basis for why you got rid of 
the China Initiative that President Trump had set up?
    Attorney General Garland. The Assistant Attorney General 
for the National Security Division gave a long speech which 
explained that. He has testified before Congress several times. 
We would be happy to provide you with--
    Mr. Gaetz. What is the basis? Just tell us all now. Why was 
the China Initiative dissolved?
    Attorney General Garland. What the Assistant Attorney 
General said was that we face attacks from four Nation-States, 
North Korea, China, Russia, and Iran, and that we need to focus 
our attention on the broad range of these attacks. Sometimes we 
don't know--
    Mr. Gaetz. Wait a second. Are you saying that North Korea 
has the same malign influence risk to the United States as the 
Chinese Communist Party? Are you trying to represent there is 
some parity there, because here is what it looks like?
    It looks like the Chinese gave all this money to the 
Bidens, and then you guys came in and got rid of the China 
Initiative. It was successful. Like I saw one rationale that 
you guys got rid of the China Initiative because it was racial 
profiling. One of the people you convicted was a guy named 
Charles Lieber, who was a Harvard professor taking $50,000 a 
month to do China's bidding and give them whatever research was 
being done.
    Are you aware of the millions of dollars that move through 
Rob Walker's shell companies from Chinese Communist Party 
entities into Biden family bank accounts? Are you aware of 
that?
    Attorney General Garland. There were a lot of questions 
that you just asked. Let me start with the first one about 
North Korea. North Korea is a dangerous actor, both kinetically 
and with respect to cyber--
    Mr. Gaetz. Not on par with China. I am on the Armed 
Services Committee, Mr. Attorney General--
    Attorney General Garland. I am not in the business right 
now of--
    Mr. Gaetz. OK. It makes you look unserious to suggest--
    Attorney General Garland. May I answer your question or 
not?
    Mr. Gaetz. Answer the question about whether or not you 
know about all the millions of dollars that move through Rob 
Walker's--
    Attorney General Garland. So, you don't want me to answer 
about North Korea.
    Mr. Gaetz. I already know the answer and so does everyone. 
They are not the same risk as China. So, let's get on to 
serious questions and serious answers. Do you know about the 
money that moved through Rob Walker's shell companies? Yes or 
no.
    Attorney General Garland. As I have said repeatedly, I have 
left these matters to Mr. Weiss. I have not intruded.
    Mr. Gaetz. Blissfully ignorant.
    Attorney General Garland. I have not interfered.
    Mr. Gaetz. Blissfully ignorant to these--
    Attorney General Garland. I have not tried to find out what 
he knows.
    Mr. Gaetz. It is like you are looking the other way on 
purpose, because everybody knows this stuff is happening. You 
know what? People don't pay bribes to not get something in 
return, right. The China Initiative resulted in the convictions 
of a Harvard professor, of someone at Monsanto. So, we were 
working against the Chinese. They paid the Bidens. Now, you are 
sitting here telling me that North Korea is the big threat.
    Attorney General Garland. I am--
    Mr. Gaetz. I got to get to this one thing on January 6th. 
So, did the--
    Attorney General Garland. Do you want me to answer your 
question or not?
    Mr. Gaetz. Did the FBI lose count of the number of paid 
informants on January 6th?
    Attorney General Garland. Let me answer your question about 
China.
    Mr. Gaetz. No, I want you to answer this question.
    Attorney General Garland. China is the most--
    Mr. Gaetz. I only get five minutes. You have already sort 
of, I think, screwed the pooch on China.
    Attorney General Garland. You ask me a question. You 
haven't permitted--
    Mr. Gaetz. So, January 6th, did you lose count of the 
number of Federal assets? Did you lose count and order an 
audit?
    Mr. Nadler. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Gaetz. I get an answer to the question of did they lose 
count--
    Mr. Nadler. Then let him answer the question.
    Chair Jordan. The time has expired. The Attorney General 
can respond.
    Attorney General Garland. China is the most aggressive, 
most dangerous adversary--
    Chair Jordan. Mr. Attorney General, I think the--
    Attorney General Garland. --that the United States faces, 
and we are doing everything within our power to rebut that, to 
stop that, to prevent their invasions, both kinetic, both, and 
through cyber space. We will continue to do that.
    Mr. Gaetz. If someone gave that answer in your courtroom 
when you were a judge, you would tell them they were being 
nonresponsive--
    Mr. Nadler. Mr. Chair--
    Mr. Gaetz. --and you would direct them to answer the 
question.
    [Crosstalk.]
    Chair Jordan. The time has--
    Ms. Jackson Lee. Badgering the witness.
    Mr. Nadler. The point of order has expired.
    Chair Jordan. I got it. I just, I was--
    Mr. Ivey. Do you like Your Honor? Do you want to stick with 
that?
    Chair Jordan. Yes, I was getting laughed at. You called me 
Your Honor.
    Mr. Ivey. Point of order either way.
    Chair Jordan. OK. I understand that, too.
    Mr. Ivey. All right.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman asked his question before his 
time expired. The Attorney General did not respond to the 
gentleman's question. I was hoping he would respond to the 
question about the confidential human sources on January 6th. 
He didn't respond to that. I am sure we are going to get--
    Mr. Ivey. Of course, Mr. Chair, there were eight 
questions--
    Chair Jordan. I now recognize the gentleman--
    Mr. Ivey. --before that he was not given a chance to 
answer.
    Chair Jordan. I understand. But--
    Mr. Ivey. So, the witness might have--
    Mr. Biggs. The witness doesn't--Mr. Chair, point order. The 
witness does not control the time.
    Chair Jordan. Hang on. Exactly right. Members control the 
time. If they want to switch their question and focus on one 
more question that they would like an answer to, I want to give 
the witness a chance to respond to that final question that Mr. 
Gaetz asked. He didn't respond to it. Someone else is going to 
ask it, I am sure.
    We now recognize the gentleman from Tennessee for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. I will just followup a few of 
the questions that were asked here. Did Devon Archer not say 
Joe Biden did nothing wrong?
    Attorney General Garland. I want to be clear. I only know 
about Mr. Archer from newspaper reports. I want to be clear 
that I kept my promise not to involve myself in this 
investigation.
    Mr. Cohen. OK. Now, stated. He said that Joe Biden did 
nothing wrong.
    Second, did you say that President Trump, President Trump 
appointed Weiss, who then you appointed?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. President Trump appointed 
Mr. Weiss as United States Attorney.
    Mr. Cohen. So, that should take care of that issue.
    They say the Department has been weaponized. Wasn't there 
an investigation of Mr. Gaetz, and you didn't prosecute him?
    Attorney General Garland. The Justice Department does not 
make comments about its investigations.
    Mr. Cohen. Well, it just shows you we are not weaponized. 
If we were weaponized, we would have done it. That was a 
beautiful exchange there. It shows we didn't do that.
    You are the Nation's chief law enforcement officer. I 
appreciate that. Law enforcement is one of our government's 
fundamental functions. Crime is growing too much in this 
country and in my city of Memphis as well. We need law 
enforcement to be effective, swift, and fair. I would like to 
focus my questions on what actually affects the American 
people, crime.
    How do we get smarter law enforcement, requiring smart 
resource allocations, not about funding or less funding but the 
right funding for the right programs, and see that this 
happens?
    Memphis, as hiring has become more difficult, we have 
lowered our standards to get more officers. That is not the way 
to do it. The COPS program is helping us review the policy and 
procedures, and I thank you, the COPS program, for doing that. 
What can the Department of Justice do to help see that law 
enforcement is more efficient and more effective?
    Attorney General Garland. So, the key to this is our 
partnership, the FBI, DEA, Marshals, ATFs, partnership at every 
local level with local and State law enforcement, and task 
forces in discussions to target the most dangerous criminals in 
those communities, but at the same time, to engage the 
communities to help engender community trust in law 
enforcement.
    Everyone who has prosecuted violent crime cases, and that 
includes me, knows that you need the trust of the community to 
get witnesses. We, in the Justice Department, are helping our 
State and local colleagues do just that.
    The funding you described from the COPS Office and in the 
Office of Justice Programs allows us to give money to State and 
local police organizations that are having trouble with 
recruitment and retention and promotion of law officers and 
helps them make their departments respectful of Constitutional 
rights and at the same time effective in the investigation and 
prosecution of criminal law violations.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you for those activities, those programs 
through COPS.
    You have also reinstituted patterns and practices 
investigations of certain police departments. Memphis is one of 
them. I thank you for doing that. Can you share with us how 
important those pilot programs are and how they can improve 
policing?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Congress has authorized the 
Justice Department to conduct pattern and practice 
investigations when they have a reasonable belief in the, that 
there has been unConstitutional, a pattern of unConstitutional 
behavior in a police department. We are careful to select those 
cases where we think there is such a pattern. We make those 
investigations. We then work with the law enforcement agencies 
and the cities.
    Our hope is to come to a consent decree that will lead to a 
better, more efficient, and more Constitutional police 
department. We have been successful in all our cases to date in 
reaching consent agreements.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. You were part of announced 
bringing of charges, Federal charges against the five officers 
who killed Tyre Nichols in Memphis. I thank you for that. We 
need that Federal charge. We need our department looked at.
    If there is a shutdown of the Federal Government, how will 
that affect the Department of Justice and affect policing in 
local communities?
    Attorney General Garland. I haven't done a complete 
calculation on the effects of a shutdown and the difference 
between which employees are indispensable under the statute and 
which ones not. It will certainly disrupt all our normal 
programs, including our grant programs to State and local law 
enforcement, and to our ability to conduct our normal efforts 
with respect to the entire scope of our activities, including 
helping State and locals fight violent crime.
    Mr. Cohen. Thank you, sir. Happy New Year.
    I yield back the balance of my time.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman, Mr. McClintock, from California, is 
recognized.
    Mr. McClintock. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Attorney General, looking again at the appointment of 
Jack Smith and David Weiss, this double standard of Justice 
couldn't be more glaring. Jack Smith was deeply involved in the 
IRS scandal that targeted conservative political groups who 
were harassed. His malicious prosecution of former Governor 
McDonnell was unanimously overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court. 
Chief Justice Roberts rebuked Smith directly for attempting to 
criminalize political activity. You appointed him to prosecute 
Joe Biden's chief rival for the presidency.
    Then we have the appointment of David Weiss. Weiss 
deliberately allowed the statute of limitations to run out on 
any charges that could have implicated Joe Biden in influence 
peddling. He originally offered Hunter Biden a sweetheart deal 
that was ultimately upended by the court. He is the one you 
appointed to pursue the charges that could implicate Joe Biden.
    That leads me to only two explanations, either corruption 
or incompetence. So, which is it?
    Attorney General Garland. Those are the kind of questions 
that judges would rule out of order.
    Mr. McClintock. I am sure you would. Which is it?
    Attorney General Garland. Look, I said before and I will 
say again, Mr. Weiss was the Republican appointed United States 
Attorney, appointed by President Trump.
    Mr. McClintock. Do you at least see the obvious double 
standard applied in these two appointments?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was a Republican 
appointee. Mr. Smith is not registered at either party. His 
entire career was as a career prosecutor.
    Mr. McClintock. I don't care what their party registrations 
are.
    Attorney General Garland. That does not seem like a double 
standard.
    Mr. McClintock. I am not asking what their party 
registrations are. I am asking about their records and how 
those records would commend them to the appointments that you 
made. This is a question of judgment, and it is a question of 
motive. What was motivating you to do this?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Smith had a nationwide 
reputation for integrity and for--
    Mr. McClintock. Oh, please, not a--
    Attorney General Garland. --appropriate prosecution. His 
work can be measured by what he actually has filed. Everyone in 
the country can see the indictments--
    Mr. McClintock. How can you say that after he was so 
heavily implicated in the IRS scandal or the rebuke that the 
Supreme Court gave him and many other examples? Let me go on.
    We have had two IRS Whistleblowers inform Congress of 
attempts by senior Justice Department officials to obstruct the 
criminal investigation into millions of dollars of ill-gotten 
and undeclared income to Hunter Biden.
    They noted several deviations by the Department officials 
from normal process that provided preferential treatment in 
this case to Hunter Biden, a direct quote, including allowing 
the statute of limitations to lapse, requesting IRS and FBI 
management level investigative communications prohibiting 
investigators from referring to the big guy or dad in witness 
interviews, excluding the investigative team from meetings with 
defense counsel, and notifying defense counsel of pending 
search warrants. The U.S. Attorney's Office even tipped off the 
Bidens of an impending search of a storage unit where their 
records were being kept.
    Now, that sounds an awful lot like obstruction of justice 
to me. Was that coming from you or from somebody else?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I don't--was that 
coming from you? I don't understand the question.
    Mr. McClintock. All the actions that your employees took to 
obstruct the investigation of Hunter Biden and the earnings 
that he made and the taxes he failed to declare, their source 
and ultimately who they were paid to.
    Attorney General Garland. I am going to say again with 
respect to the Hunter Biden investigation, that it has been and 
still is in the hands of Mr. Weiss, an appointee of President 
Trump. I don't know about all these allegations. Some of them 
appear to have been from the period when the Attorney General 
appointed by President Trump was still the Attorney General.
    Mr. McClintock. Do these charges trouble you at all?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss will have an 
opportunity to explain the decisions--
    Mr. McClintock. Well, you are the guy in charge. Does this 
trouble you?
    Attorney General Garland. I have intentionally not involved 
myself in the facts of the case, not because I am trying to get 
out of responsibility but because I am trying to pursue my 
responsibility.
    Mr. McClintock. Your FBI Director testified before this 
Committee of an uptick in ``known or suspected terrorists 
coming across the Southern border.'' He told us that the 
Southern border represents a massive security threat. Those 
were his words, a massive security threat. Do you agree?
    Attorney General Garland. I am perfectly happy to align 
myself with the Director of the FBI.
    Mr. McClintock. Well, why is it then that we, senior 
administration rescinds the Trump era orders that had secured 
that border? We have seen an exponential increase in suspected 
terrorists.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman has expired. The 
witness can respond if he chooses.
    Attorney General Garland. The answer to this question about 
immigration law is an extremely long answer. I would defer to 
the Department of Homeland Security, which is responsible for 
the physical security and that first contact at the border. 
With respect--
    Chair Jordan. Well, we have tried to get answers from him, 
and he doesn't give them to us. So, we were hoping you would.
    I understand, Mr. Attorney General, you have requested a 
short break. So, we will take a short break and resume in five 
minutes.
    Attorney General Garland. OK. Sorry.
    [Recess.]
    Chair Jordan. The Committee will come to order.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Georgia, Mr. 
Johnson, for five minutes.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Attorney General Garland, great to see you. Thank you for 
your service to the Nation.
    The Nation watches as the Republicans have no answer for 
why they want to focus and obsess on Hunter Biden receiving $2 
million from Burisma after serving on a board that he said he 
was not qualified to serve on. Yet, the Saudi Arabians gave $2 
billion to Jared Kushner, who conducted Middle East strategy 
for his dear old dad, Donald Trump. He got $2 billion for 
something that he is not equipped to do, which is investment 
banking. So, Republicans looking at Hunter Biden instead of 
Jared Kushner, Americans don't understand how that could be.
    They also are increasingly alarmed about the fact that the 
Republicans in control of the House only seem to have three 
objectives.

    (1)  To impeach Joe Biden.
    (2)  To shut down, is to impeach or get rid of Kevin 
McCarthy actually.
    (3)  To shut down the government.

    A subset of that is to defund the DOJ and the FBI for 
trying to hold Donald Trump accountable. So, the American 
people are watching that.
    They also appreciate the fact that you have had a 
distinguished career as a prosecutor and a DOJ official, as 
well as 24 years on the bench. You served on the second highest 
court of the land as a judge for 24 years, the D.C. Circuit 
Court of Appeals. We appreciate your service. You were for 
seven years the lead, you managed that entire office. We thank 
you for that. You also served on the Judicial Council for a 
number of years. So, you are steeped in the rule of law. You 
are a judge extraordinaire.
    As a judge, you never had the occasion to receive a private 
jet travel to an exotic location by a corporate billionaire, 
did you? You can cut your mic on.
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. You never received an offer to get 
a ride on a private jet?
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Did you take any vacations at 
exclusive resorts paid for by a billionaire?
    Attorney General Garland. I know these are not hypothetical 
questions. I think--
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. I mean--
    Attorney General Garland. --this is really not within my 
realm of questions.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. You were a judge extraordinaire. 
You know the rules of ethics for judges because your bench had 
to, was covered by a Code of Conduct. Is that not correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. All the judges, Federal, 
appellate, and District Judges are covered by the Code of 
Conduct.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. You would never have had somebody 
to pay for your godson's tuition to a private school, would 
you?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I don't want to answer 
these kinds of--at least to me they are hypothetical questions. 
What I would say is that always as a judge, and I have said 
this before and quite publicly and long ago, I always held 
myself to the highest standards of ethical responsibility 
imposed by the Code. That is really all I can answer here.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. It is required that judges and 
justices avoid even appearances of impropriety. Isn't that 
correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I know you are asking this 
both hypothetically and not hypothetically. All I can say is I 
follow the Code of Judicial Conduct. It includes avoiding 
appearances. That is right.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Well, let me ask you this question. 
Senator Whitehouse and I sent a letter to you alerting you to 
the fact that we were asking the Judicial Council to refer the 
matter of Clarence Thomas being in violation of the Ethics in 
Government Act to the Justice Department. After that, 
Representative Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, along with myself and 
others, requested that you take that matter up directly.
    Have you responded to either one of those letters? If not, 
why not? What action have you taken pursuant to those letters?
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman may respond.
    Attorney General Garland. I assume that if you sent the 
letter, we have it. I will speak to the Office of Legislative 
Affairs about where it is at this point.
    Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Is the Department investigating--
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman has expired.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. 
Issa.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you.
    Good day, Mr. Attorney General. This may be the reason that 
it is good for you to leave the Chief Justice and that group 
before each of us speak, as you would have already heard all 
that.
    I want to thank you personally for your office and your 
engagement to Camp Lejeune and on obviously a vast amount of 
litigation. That is one of the many, many jobs that it falls at 
your feet.
    One of the jobs that falls at our feet here is that we are 
watchdogs of the Executive Branch. You have previously said 
that you are not Congress' attorney. You have said you are not 
the President's attorney. I am assuming that you are neither 
our prosecutor nor our defense attorney, and you are neither 
the President's prosecutor nor defense attorney.
    That is why that today's investigation really does deal 
with the fact that if you are not by definition the President's 
prosecutor, but we have an obligation to see whether or not the 
President or a member of his family or in concert with the 
President's activities, in fact, need to be overseen, 
admonished, or even prosecuted.
    So, I have a couple of questions for you. One of them is 
that you have not said this very much today, but you often say 
I cannot comment on that because it is an ongoing 
investigation. When we ask for information, you very commonly 
say that it is the policy, not the law, but the policy of the 
Department of Justice not to provide information related to an 
ongoing investigation. So far, I am on track. Is that correct?
    Attorney General Garland. I think I have said more than it 
is just a policy. I think the letters we have sent trace it to 
the Constitutional separation of powers, Rule 6(e) of the 
Federal Rules of Criminal Procedures, et cetera. In general, I 
am in accord with what you are saying.
    Mr. Issa. So, one of the challenges we face is that just a 
matter of weeks ago a Federal Judge found the actions of a now 
special prosecutor to be so outside what he could agree to that 
he pushed back on a plea settlement and nullified it and sent 
the U.S. Attorney going back.
    In light of that, don't you think it is appropriate for 
that portion to be considered a pre-ongoing investigation and 
for Congress to
legitimately look at the activities leading up that failed plea 
bargain, rather than wait until weeks, months, or years from 
now a case is fully settled?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, so if you will give me a 
chance, first I don't agree with the characterization of what 
happened in the plea. The District Judge performed her 
obligations under Rule 11 to determine whether the parties were 
in agreement as to what each had agreed to and determined that 
they were not. The plea fell apart, as you know. There has been 
another prosecution. So, that leads to the second thing. We are 
in, Mr. Weiss is in the midst of an ongoing prosecution on the 
very matter that you are talking about.
    Mr. Issa. OK. Mr. Attorney General, if we believe, and we 
do at least on this side of the dais, that a pattern of 
behavior is occurring relative to the investigation of Hunter 
Biden, particularly and including while he lived in the Vice 
President's home, while he operated, commingled with the Vice 
President, and even today as he travels with the President.
    So, in light of that, can you agree that, in fact, it would 
be reasonable for us to look at a number of items, including 
and one that I want your answer on, and I know we have limited 
time. Mr. Weiss supposedly had this ability to bring a 
prosecution anywhere. He now explicitly has that ability.
    However, are you concerned, and should we have the right to 
look into the fact that political appointees in California and 
in the District of Columbia refuse to, in fact, cooperate with 
him in those, in the investigation that he was charged with 
doing in Delaware, but which flowed over into their 
jurisdictions? Isn't that, in fact, an example where those 
political appointees of the now-President, that their decision 
not to cooperate with him creates at least an appearance of 
political interference with the investigation of the 
President's son and possibly activities related to the 
President?
    Attorney General Garland. Look, I am happy to answer this 
question in a hypothetical, but not in the specifics because I 
have stayed out of this matter.
    In the hypothetical, it is the normal process of the 
Department that if a U.S. Attorney in one district wants to 
bring a case in another they go to that other district and 
consult. It is perfectly appropriate. They do that to determine 
what the policies are in that district, what the practices have 
been in that district, what the judges are like in that 
district.
    A U.S. Attorney in another district does not have the 
authority to deny another U.S. Attorney the ability to go 
forward. I have assured Mr. Weiss that he would have the 
authority one way or the other. I think Mr. Weiss' letters 
completely reflect that.
    Mr. Issa. Thank you. To be continued.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman has expired.
    The Chair recognizes the gentleman from California for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Schiff. Welcome, Mr. Attorney General. Thank you for 
leading the Department with such integrity.
    We met today at a momentous time in our history. The 
country is about to go through a great trial. By this I do not 
mean any of the several trials of the former President, but 
rather a trial of the proposition that we are a Nation of laws 
committed to the rule of law and that no one is above the law. 
It is a proposition well known around the world because it is 
the one essential ingredient in all democracies. We have all 
professed our belief in this principle, but it has never been 
truly tested, not like it is today.
    In this Committee, we are engaged in a portion of that 
trial. The Chair would abuse the power of this Committee by 
trying to interfere in the prosecutions of Donald Trump, by 
trying to use the Committee's power of subpoena to compel 
criminal discovery, in effect making the Committee a kind of 
criminal defense firm for the former President.
    In doing so, the Chair of this Committee would establish a 
very different proposition. Through Mr. Jordan's actions, he 
would establish the principle that the rule of law should apply 
to almost everyone, just not the leader of his party. According 
to this alternate proposition, if you were the President of the 
United States and you lose your reelection you can violate the 
law and Constitution to try to stay in power. If you are 
successful, well then maybe you get to be President for life. 
If you fail, there are no repercussion. This proposition is 
also well known to the world, and it is called dictatorship.
    Mr. Jordan hopes to camouflage his assault on the rule of 
law by falsely claiming that Donald Trump is the victim of 
unequal justice and Hunter Biden its beneficiary. It is a claim 
as transparently political as it is devoid of any factual 
basis. It is cynical, based on the belief that the American 
people cannot discern fact from fiction.
    I am betting on America. History has shown that those who 
bet against her are rarely successful, and more often they end 
up covered with shame. I believe in the rule of law. I thank 
you, Mr. Attorney General, for defending it.
    Let me now turn to some of the false claims asserted by the 
former President and some on this Committee. On Sunday, the 
former President appeared on a national news Sunday program and 
was asked about four indictments and 91 counts facing him. His 
response was Biden indictments, excuse me, Biden political 
indictments. He said the Attorney General indict him.
    Mr. Attorney General, I want to give you a chance to 
respond. Was the President telling the truth or was he lying 
when he said that President Biden told you to indict him?
    Attorney General Garland. No one has told me to indict, and 
in this case the decision to indict was made by the Special 
Counsel.
    Mr. Schiff. So, that statement the President made on Sunday 
was false?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm just going to say again that 
no one has told me who should be indicted in any matter like 
this and the decision about indictment was made by Mr. Smith.
    Mr. Schiff. Let me ask you this question about the 
prosecution of Hunter Biden: The prosecutor in that case, Mr. 
Weiss, was appointed not by Joe Biden, but he was appointed in 
the first instance by Donald Trump, is that correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Trump campaign.
    Mr. Schiff. He continued in that position, was he not?
    Attorney General Garland. He was continued in that 
position, yes.
    Mr. Schiff. Mr. Attorney General, can you imagine, can you 
imagine the hue and cry you would hear from my colleagues on 
the other side of the aisle if you had removed him from that 
position? Can you imagine the claims that you had removed a 
prosecutor who was diligently investigating Hunter Biden? Can 
you imagine the outrage they would have expressed?
    Attorney General Garland. I can say that during my 
confirmation hearing I discussed with many Senators on that 
side of the aisle their desire and actual insistence that Mr. 
Weiss be continued to have responsibility for that matter. I 
promised and I said at my confirmation hearing that he would be 
permitted to stay and that I would not interfere.
    Mr. Schiff. Mr. Attorney General, that was exactly the 
right decision. That was the right decision to give the 
American people the confidence that even a prosecutor chosen by 
the former President would continue in the investigation into 
the son of the current President. That was exactly the right 
decision. Exactly the right decision. My colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle would have been screaming if it were 
otherwise. Their attack on you is completely devoid of fact, of 
principle, but I appreciate you doing the right thing for the 
Department of Justice, and more importantly the right thing for 
the American people. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Kentucky.
    Mr. Massie. Attorney General Garland, Elon Musk was a 
Democrat who admittedly supported Biden, but then he became a 
critic of the administration and exposed the censorship regime. 
Now, per public reports the DOJ has opened not one, but two 
investigations of Elon Musk.
    Mark Zuckerberg on the other hand spent $400 million in 
2020, tilting the elections secretly for Democrats. No 
investigations whatsoever.
    To the American public these look like Mafia tactics. You 
pay your money; we look the other way. You get in our way, we 
punish you. The American public sees what these tactics are.
    Now, I want to direct your attention to a video here that 
we are going to play.
    [Video played.]
    Mr. Massie. Peter Navarro was indicted for contempt of 
Congress. Aren't you in fact in contempt of Congress when you 
give us this answer? This is an answer that is appropriate at a 
press conference. It is not an answer that is appropriate when 
we are asking questions. We are the Committee that is 
responsible for your creation, for your existence of your 
department. You cannot continue to give us these answers. Are 
you in fact in contempt of Congress when you refuse to answer?
    Attorney General Garland. Congressman, I have the greatest 
respect for Congress. I also have the greatest respect for the 
Constitution and laws of the United States. The protection of 
pending investigations and ongoing investigations, as I briefly 
discussed in another dialog a few moments ago, goes back to the 
separation of powers which gives to the Executive Branch the 
sole authority to conduct prosecutions. It's a requirement of 
due process and respect for those who are under investigation, 
protection of their civil rights. This has nothing to do with 
respect to Congress.
    Mr. Massie. Well, with all due respect to that, Iran Contra 
was an ongoing investigation and that didn't stop Congress from 
getting the answers. You are getting the way of our 
Constitutional duty. You are citing the Constitution. I am 
going to cite it. It is our Constitutional duty to do 
oversight.
    Now, in that video that was your answer to a question to me 
two years ago when I said how many agents or assets of the 
government were present on January 5th-January 6th and 
agitating in the crowd to go into the Capital and how many went 
into the Capital? Can you answer that now?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know the answer to that 
question.
    Mr. Massie. Oh, last time--you don't know how many there 
were or there were none?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know the answer to either 
of those questions. If there were any, I don't know how many. I 
don't know whether there are any.
    Mr. Massie. I think may have just perjured yourself that 
you don't know that there were any. You want to say that again, 
that you don't know that there were any?
    Attorney General Garland. I have no personal knowledge of 
this matter. I think what I said the last time and--
    Mr. Massie. You have had two years to find out and today--
and by the way, that was in reference to Ray Epps, and 
yesterday you indicted him. Isn't that a wonderful coincidence? 
On a misdemeanor. Meanwhile you are sending grandmas to prison. 
You are putting people away for 20 years for merely filming. 
Some people weren't even there, yet you got the guy on video. 
He is saying go into the Capital. He is directing people to the 
Capital before the speeches. He is at the site of the first 
breech. You have got all the goods on him. Ten videos. It is an 
indictment for a misdemeanor? The American public isn't buying 
it.
    I yield the balance of my time to Chair Jordan.
    Attorney General Garland. May I answer the question?
    Chair Jordan. I am going to ask one now. We will let the--
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Mr. Massie. Go ahead, but--
    Attorney General Garland. In discovery in the cases that 
were filed with respect to January 6th the Justice Department 
prosecutors provided whatever information they had about the 
question that you're asking. With respect to Mr. Epps, the FBI 
has said that he was not an employee or informant of the FBI. 
Mr. Epps has been charged and there's a proceeding I believe 
going on today on that subject.
    Mr. Massie. The charge is a joke.
    I yield to the Chair.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman has expired. The 
Chair recognizes the gentleman from California.
    Mr. Swalwell. Mr. Attorney General, my colleague just said 
that you should be held in contempt of Congress. That is quite 
rich because the guy who is leaving the hearing room right now, 
Mr. Jordan, is about 500 days into evading his subpoena. About 
500 days. So, if we are going to talk about contempt of 
Congress, let's get real.
    I mean, are you serious that Jim Jordan, a witness to one 
of the greatest crimes ever committed in America, a crime where 
more prosecutions have occurred than any crime committed in 
America, refuses to help his country? We are going to get 
lectured about subpoena compliance and Contempt of Congress? 
Jim Jordan won't even honor a lawful subpoena? Are you kidding 
me? Are you kidding me? There is no credibility on that side.
    Mr. Attorney General, you are serious; they are not. You 
are decent; they are not. You are fair; they are not. So, I 
welcome you to the law firm of Insurrection, LLP, where they 
work every single day on behalf of one client, Donald Trump. 
They do that at the expense of millions of Americans who need 
the government to stay open, who want their kids safe in their 
schools, and would like to see Ukraine stay in the fight so 
that we don't help Russia. That is the expense that this 
nonsense, this clown show--I would call it a clown show except 
they actually have real responsibilities that affect real 
Americans. It is the difference between one side that believes 
in governing and one side that believes in ruling.
    You have tried to comply with this Committee. In fact, last 
week one of your special agents came here for an interview, 
brought his lawyer, and was told that he couldn't have his 
lawyer present. Mr. Jordan, who tells all of us he knows so 
much about the Constitution, wouldn't afford one of your 
employees with the basic Constitutional rights to have a lawyer 
present. In fact, they threatened to call the Capital Police 
and arrest a lawyer that was brought. Are you familiar with 
that standoff that occurred last week, Mr. Attorney General?
    Attorney General Garland. Generally, yes.
    Mr. Swalwell. Well, your office also sent a letter 
detailing it, that you were willing to comply, but you would 
like him to have a lawyer.
    I would like to submit that to the record with unanimous 
consent.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Mr. Swalwell. Who appointed Mr. Weiss?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Trump was the last person who 
appointed Mr. Weiss to the position of U.S. Attorney. I 
appointed him to the position of the Special Counsel last 
month.
    Mr. Swalwell. Who initially appointed John Durham?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Durham was I believe also 
appointed by President Trump, and Mr. Barr appointed him as 
Special Counsel.
    Mr. Swalwell. Again, these guys are so upset that Donald 
Trump's appointed prosecutors aren't doing enough of the 
corruption that Donald Trump wants them to do. So, either they 
are just following the law, or they are not as corrupt, and 
they are not willing to go as far as they think that Donald 
Trump deserves. That is what they are asking to happen here.
    Also, doesn't it seem that they want it both ways when it 
comes to the Special Counsel? A lot of questions suggested that 
the Special Counsel should be independent, but when they didn't 
like the direction of the Special Counsel you were asked why 
you didn't interfere more, or involve yourself more, or 
investigate more. Do you get that sense that they are kind of 
stuck here?
    Attorney General Garland. When I make an appointment 
somebody to be a Special Counsel or a prosecutor, the 
appointment is without respect to what the outcomes of the case 
will be.
    Mr. Swalwell. Your office has made a number of reforms to 
702 targeting foreign nationals, but those reforms have not 
been put into law. Section 702 is also one of the best weapons 
we have to go after fentanyl. Can you tell us if you would 
support putting some of those reforms into law, so we don't 
have to live administration to administration to see if they 
are going to be followed?
    Attorney General Garland. I would. Section 702 provides us 
with the greatest--at least Justice Department every morning--
the greatest amount of intelligence that we receive about 
dangerous threats to the United States.
    Mr. Swalwell. From foreign nationals?
    Attorney General Garland. From foreign nationals. I am 
quite aware and sensitive to civil liberties concerns with 
respect to the queries, and for that reason I put into place 
and I extended some of those that Mr. Barr had begun at the end 
of his term, and I put further ones in place. Those have led to 
a dramatic reduction in the number of queries and a dramatic 
reduction in the number of noncompliant queries. I believe 
those are appropriate reforms and I would be in favor of 
codifying them, yes.
    Mr. Swalwell. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General, and thank 
you for coming and doing something that the Chair is unwilling 
to do, testify to Congress. Yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Wisconsin, Mr. 
Fitzgerald.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Attorney General, on August 11, 2023, you 
appointed Mr. David Weiss U.S. Attorney for the District of 
Delaware as Special Counsel overseeing the investigation of 
Hunter Biden. I don't think the question has been asked yet: 
Why did you choose to appoint him as Special Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. The explanation was given and as 
far--and to the extent I can give an--I'm permitted to give an 
explanation is the one I gave and sent to the Congress, which 
is that Weiss requested it and I promised to give him all the 
resources that he need. He had reached the stage of the 
investigation where he thought it would be appropriate and 
under those extraordinary circumstances, I thought the public 
interest would be served by making him Special Counsel.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. How did Mr. Weiss' name emerge? Who 
recommended him? How was it brought to you or presented to you 
that this would be the best person to be the Special Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not going to get into 
internal discussions. Mr. Weiss asked that he be appointed as 
Special Counsel. I granted that request and made him Special 
Counsel, but I'm not going to get into internal deliberations 
in the Justice Department.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. I think you said earlier you have had no 
discussion with the White House and certainly the President in 
regard to that. Is that accurate?
    Attorney General Garland. Of course.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. There were no suggestions that came from 
any other level of government on Mr. Weiss?
    Attorney General Garland. No, nothing came from the White 
House. That's right.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. So, on August 20, 2023, the Washington Post 
article claimed that Mr. Weiss worked with Hunter Biden and 
Hunter Biden's late brother Beau Biden. Were you aware that 
there was a relationship there with the Biden family?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not familiar with this. I 
don't know when he did what--
    Mr. Fitzgerald. They worked together on legal cases in 
prior years. You were unaware of that?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not familiar with that.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. The article claims it would have been 
inevitable for Mr. Weiss and the President to cross paths in a 
State like Delaware. They knew each other. There was a 
relationship there. You were unaware of any of this before you 
appointed him?
    Attorney General Garland. I was unaware of this, but 
attorneys who are in practice certainly get to know people, so 
it's very difficult anywhere in the country for attorneys not 
to get to know attorneys on other sides of matters.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. You said previously that Mr. Weiss had the 
ultimate authority over the investigation of the President's 
son including prior to his appointment as Special Counsel. You 
stand by that statement, I am sure?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry. I didn't--
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Just that, in fact, that the ultimate 
authority was still there with Mr. Weiss to make determinations 
on that case.
    Attorney General Garland. You mean still as Special 
Counsel? Yes.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. Yes.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Ms. Fitzgerald. As Special Counsel. So, the buck stopped 
there and that has been determined.
    According to the Whistleblower testimony Mr. Weiss' Deputy 
AUSA Lesley Wolf objected to search warrants of President 
Biden's guest house, denied investigation access to a storage 
unit containing all the documents from the vacated office of 
the law firm.
    Is Lesley Wolf still employed by the Department of Justice?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not going to talk about any 
individuals in the Justice Department. As I said before 
singling out individuals has led to serious threats to their 
safety. I will say that the supervisor of this investigation 
was Mr. Weiss. He's responsible for all the decisions that were 
made. Many of the things that you're saying occurred during the 
previous administration.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. OK. Well, there was absolutely a discussion 
by Lesley Wolf that if they told investigators or got involved 
with this that there would ultimately be issues. You still 
believe that at this point that the entire investigation has 
moved in the correct discretion--was handled by the correct 
discretion of the individuals involved?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss was a long-standing 
career prosecutor who was appointed by President Trump. He has 
an outstanding reputation and I have confidence that he will 
proceed as appropriate. At the end of his investigation he will 
submit a public report just like Mr. Durham, just like Mr. 
Mueller. He will be available for you to ask him questions 
about why he did various things that were done.
    Mr. Fitzgerald. I yield the balance of my time to the 
Chair.
    Chair Jordan. Mr. Garland, what changed? On July 10, 2023, 
David Weiss wrote to Senator Graham and said, ``I have not 
requested Special Counsel designation.'' On August 11th, you 
announced that he is now the Special Counsel. What happened in 
that 31 days?
    Attorney General Garland. As I said publicly several days 
before my announcement, I think three days, Mr. Weiss had asked 
to become Special Counsel. He explained that there were--had 
reached the stage of his investigation where he thought that 
appropriate. I had promised--
    Chair Jordan. What stage is that?
    Attorney General Garland. I had promised to give him the 
resources he needed.
    Chair Jordan. What stage is that? He had reached the stage. 
After five years what stage are we in? Are we in the beginning 
stage, the middle stage, the end stage, the keep-hiding-the-
ball stage? What stage are we in?
    Attorney General Garland. I think this is when I would go 
back to the videotape where I said I'm not permitted to discuss 
ongoing investigations.
    Chair Jordan. Well, isn't that convenient? Something 
changed in 31-32 days from July 10th-August 11th. I think it is 
two brave Whistleblowers came forward and a judge called BS on 
the plea deal you guys tried to get passed. That is what I 
think happened.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from California.
    Mr. Lieu. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    The House Judiciary Committee has the responsibility of 
helping to ensure the rule of law. Unfortunately, this 
Committee's Chair ignored a bipartisan Congressional Subpoena. 
The horrible precedent set by this Chair has damaged the 
credibility of all Congressional Committees in seeking 
information from witnesses and damaged the rule of law.
    Attorney General Garland, thank you for your public service 
and thank you for being here today. I would like to start by 
showing a video of January 6th and then ask you some questions 
about that day.
    [Video played.]
    Mr. Lieu. Attorney General Garland, the Department of 
Justice charged over 1,100 defendants in connection with the 
attack on our Capital, correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, that's correct.
    Mr. Lieu. I am going to state two facts:

    (1)  The people who showed up on January 6th to attack the 
Nation's Capital were supporters of Donald Trump.
    (2)  They attacked the Capital, stopped Congress from 
certifying the fact that Donald Trump lost the election.

    Those two facts were so horrible that some in the right-
wing media and some Republican Members of Congress could not 
handle that, so they made up conspiracy theories. In fact, 
Donald Trump called January 6th a beautiful day. He said the 
people who showed up had love in their hearts. A Republican 
Member of Congress said January 6th was like a normal tourist 
visit. Some Republicans have said there were not weapons used 
on January 6th.
    Attorney General Garland, were there weapons used in the 
attack on January 6th?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, in the video you already saw 
the--some of the weapons that were used, and there are 
obviously many more in many, many hours of video.
    Mr. Lieu. Another conspiracy theory is that somehow the FBI 
actually orchestrated this attack, so I am going to go through 
some cases that have gone through completion and resulted in 
sentencing.
    Joe Biggs was sentenced to 17 years in prison for seditious 
conspiracy and other counts related to the attack on our 
Nation's Capital. Have you seen any shred of evidence that Joe 
Biggs was an FBI agent?
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Mr. Lieu. In fact, Joe Biggs was a Member of the Proud 
Boys. This is what Assistant U.S. Attorney Conor Mulroe stated 
about Joe Biggs and the Proud Boys in court. He stated, quote,

        They saw themselves as Donald Trump's army fighting to keep 
        their preferred leader in power no matter what the law or the 
        courts had to say about it.

    On September 4th, Joe Biggs stated that he is confident 
Trump will pardon him. He said, quote, ``Oh, I know he'll 
pardon us. We're his supporters. We went there like he asked.''
    I would like to now ask you about the case of Stewart 
Rhodes who was sentenced to 18 years in prison for the attack 
on our Nation's Capital. Have you seen any shred of evidence 
that Stewart Rhodes was an FBI agent?
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Mr. Lieu. In fact, he was the founder of the Oath Keepers, 
a far-right paramilitary organization. Rhodes asked Donald 
Trump to call them up as militia.
    Then, I would like to ask you about Enrique Tarrio who was 
sentenced to 22 years in the attack on our Nation's Capital. 
Have you seen any evidence that Enrique Tarrio was an FBI 
agent?
    Attorney General Garland. He was not an FBI agent.
    Mr. Lieu. In fact, he was the leader of the Proud Boys. 
What happened on January 6th is that Donald Trump's supporters 
showed up because he told them to. They marched to the Capital 
because he told them to. They attacked the Capital because he 
told them to stop the steal. That is the truth and that is how 
history is going to record it. Thank you for prosecuting those 
who attacked our Nation's Capital. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from South Carolina.
    Mr. Fry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a slide up here. I 
will start. In October--or March 2022, Mr. Weiss was denied the 
ability to bring charges against Hunter Biden in the District 
of Columbia. In April of that same year, you testified before 
the Senate Appropriations Committee that Mr. Weiss was free to 
run the investigation without interference from the DOJ.
    According to the IRS Whistleblower there was a meeting in 
October 2022, where Mr. Weiss said that he was not the deciding 
official on whether charges were filed. We know that because we 
have handwritten notes from the IRS Whistleblowers that was 
confirmed in an email to people in the meeting.
    Later in January, Mr. Weiss was denied the ability to bring 
charges again against Hunter Biden in the Central District of 
California. You testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee 
in March of this year that he had full authority. Weiss 
confirmed that to us in a letter in June that he had been 
granted, quote, ``full authority over this matter.'' Then, he 
kind of backed up. On June 3rd, he said well, just kidding. My 
charging authority is geographically limited to my home 
district in Delaware. Of course, you appoint him as Special 
Counsel.
    So, why the heck has his story changed so many times over 
the course of these investigations?
    Attorney General Garland. Congressman, I have seen all of 
the three letters. I read them quite carefully. They are all 
consistent with each other and I urge everyone watching this on 
television or anyone who's interested to look at those three 
letters. They are not inconsistent with each other and there's 
no change in the story.
    Mr. Fry. So, but you agree that he had--and you have said 
this publicly that he had ultimate authority prior to the 
appointment of Special Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. I've explained this repeatedly 
here. I've explained this in another proceeding. I said that 
Mr. Weiss would have the authority to bring a case in any 
jurisdiction in which he wanted to, and Mr. Weiss has confirmed 
that he would have that authority. I explained that if he had 
to bring a case in another jurisdiction, as a matter of 
mechanics it would require me or a delegate of mine to sign a 
515 Order. That is very common.
    Mr. Fry. Mr. Attorney General, forgive me for--
    Attorney General Garland. There was nothing stopping that 
from happening.
    Mr. Fry. Forgive me for a second though. That is--when you 
say you have ultimate--when he wrote a letter on your behalf in 
June, I have ultimate authority--this was prior to the 
designation of Special Counsel--ultimate to mean that you can 
go wherever you want to.
    Attorney General Garland. Ultimate means when--
    Mr. Fry. So, at that particular point, sir, could he file 
charges in the district of South Carolina? He would not have 
that ability, correct? He would have to go through that U.S. 
Attorney. So, that is not full authority.
    Attorney General Garland. All he would have to do is ask me 
for 515 authority and I would sign it right away. Just like 
when he asked me to be Special Counsel within three days, I 
signed that.
    Mr. Fry. So, he didn't have ultimate authority?
    Attorney General Garland. He had the authority because I 
promised that he would have the authority.
    Mr. Fry. He did not have that authority. See, here is where 
I am going: If he was denied the ability to bring charges in 
March 2022, in the District of Columbia, if he was denied the 
ability to bring charges in January 2023, in the Central 
District of California, that is not full authority. These U.S. 
Attorneys operate as gatekeepers, so that is not full authority 
to do much of anything.
    What is remarkable to me, we sit here and we look at this 
and his story has changed so many times. You know whose story 
hasn't changed? Mr. Shapley, Mr. Zeigler, the emails that 
confirm that he said I don't have--I am not the deciding person 
on whether charges are filed. You know what the response back 
was from his colleague at work? Yes, you covered it all, Gary. 
That is consistent.
    What Mr. Weiss has done is this shell game in saying that 
he has authority, he doesn't have authority, but these 
gatekeepers at the U.S. Attorney's Office in the District of 
Columbia and in the Central District of California, they would 
have the gatekeeping authority on whether charges are brought 
in their jurisdictions--
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry--
    Mr. Fry. --absent that designation, correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Those words have no meaning: 
Gatekeepers, et cetera. Mr. Weiss said he was never denied 
authority. I'm the one with the authority to decide who can 
prosecute in a different jurisdiction and I promised that he 
would have that authority. I do not see any inconsistency here. 
I was not at the meeting that Mr. Shapley was referring to. I 
know what I guaranteed, and I know what Mr. Weiss has said I 
guaranteed.
    Mr. Fry. Mr. Chair, I yield the balance of my time.
    Chair Jordan. It is a simple question: If he already had 
it, why does he need it? That is the question. You said in your 
statement on August 11th--you said he will continue, continue 
to have the authority to bring charges where, when, and 
wherever he decides. So, how can he continue to have the power 
that you just gave him? That is the fundamental question the 
gentleman from South Carolina was asking.
    If he already had it, why does he need it?
    Attorney General Garland. I tried to answer that he had the 
authority and he continued to have the authority.
    Chair Jordan. When did he specifically ask you? Did you 
tell him ahead of time that he could get 515 status anytime? 
When did you tell him that he could get that if he requested 
it?
    Attorney General Garland. I made absolutely clear in--
    Chair Jordan. No. When? Did you tell him at the start of 
the investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. I made clear from the beginning 
in my statements to the Senate that he would have the authority 
to make any decisions that he wanted to and bring prosecutions 
he thought were appropriate.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman from South Carolina 
is expired. The gentlelady from Washington is recognized for 
five minutes.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Attorney General Garland, thank you for tremendous service 
to this country. As somebody who was trapped in the gallery on 
January 6th; I have to admit it is still hard for me to look at 
that video and imagine that happened at our U.S. Capital. I am 
deeply grateful that you have led this Nation toward 
accountability of all those who were involved, including the 
former President.
    You have done so with full and complete attention to the 
facts with a team around you that focuses on thorough 
investigation and with a very clear mission that you have 
stated over and over and over again despite the asked and 
answered on the other side that the Justice Department works 
for the American people.
    This is a night and day transformation from a Justice 
Department that was constantly used by Donald Trump for his own 
political gain. It is my firm belief that we have to hold those 
accountable who tried to destroy our country, including the 
former President, or we risk losing our country altogether. So, 
I thank you for your steadfast leadership.
    It is just sad that this Committee has also been 
transformed into a soapbox for political conspiracy theorists 
instead of focusing on the really important issues that the 
American people care about. So, that is what I am going to try 
to do. I am going to focus on the critical crisis of 
reproductive freedom and the efforts to try and strip 
reproductive freedom from people across this country.
    As you know a decades-long project of the extreme right 
wing materialized last year when five Republican-appointed 
justices overturned 50 years of precedent that established the 
Constitutional right to abortion.
    As one of the one in four women across this country who has 
had an abortion and who felt compelled to share my story after 
decades because I saw the attacks on the right to abortion and 
what it would do particularly for poor women, for Black and 
Brown and indigenous people across this country I spoke out and 
shared that story.
    In the 22 States where Republicans control the State 
legislature and Governorship today all have moved to restrict 
reproductive rights. More than 25 million women of childbearing 
age now live in States where abortion access has been 
curtailed. In Washington State, my home State, the Seattle 
Times reported that we are seeing increasing numbers of 
abortion patients not only from neighboring Idaho, which we 
knew we would see, but also from other Southern States where 
these restrictions are enforced.
    Mr. Chair, I seek unanimous consent to enter this Seattle 
Times record--article into the record. ``She traveled 2,000 
miles secretly for her WA abortion. Why patients from the South 
are coming here.''
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Ms. Jayapal. As our fundamental freedoms are threatened by 
extreme MAGA Republicans in Congress and across the country, we 
trust that the DOJ will initiate investigations and file 
lawsuits to protect reproductive rights.
    With respect to mifepristone, what has the Department done 
to protect access to this very safe abortion drug that women 
can take at home safely and--to end a pregnancy?
    Attorney General Garland. So, the FDA authorized the use of 
mifepristone as safe and effective, and it did it back in 2000. 
That has been challenged, first in a District Court, and we 
defended the FDA in that matter. There was an appeal in the--to 
the Circuit Court, which narrowed the District Court's opinion 
in some ways but allowed it to go forward in other. We have 
filed cert petition, which has been granted in the Supreme 
Court of the United States.
    Ms. Jayapal. Very, very important work. Thank you. My home 
State of Washington has one of the highest rates of religiously 
affiliated hospitals in the country, with our State's insurance 
commissioner's office reporting that in 2021, there were 
several counties lacking even one secular hospital.
    This is an issue under the Emergency Medical Treatment and 
Labor Act when patients in need of abortion care as life-saving 
treatments are denied services under the hospital's policies. 
What is the Department doing to enforce this law mandating that 
every hospital that receives Medicare funds provide, quote, 
``necessary stabilizing treatment'' to patients, including 
abortion care?
    Attorney General Garland. You are right. This is a Federal 
law. It expressly preempts any inconsistent State law. For that 
reason, we filed a lawsuit in Idaho and one in the District 
Court with respect to an Idaho law that impinged on the rights 
granted under EMTALA. We have filed a number of statements of 
interest in other places, and we are continuing to look at 
where it would be appropriate to intervene.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you. You are on record stating that 
women who reside in States that have banned access to 
comprehensive reproductive care must remain free to seek that 
care in States where it is legal. I thank you for that. Can you 
briefly discuss the progress made by the task force and DOJ to 
ensure that pregnant people retain their right to travel?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Look. My view about this 
right to travel is the same as Justice Kavanaugh's in his 
separate opinion. He said this is not a particularly difficult 
question. The right to travel is a Constitutional right, and it 
allows women in a State that bars abortion to travel and obtain 
an abortion in a State in which it is permitted.
    Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Attorney General, for your 
commitment to this issue and to upholding the rule of law in 
our country. Appreciate your service.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the lady has expired.
    The gentleman from Oregon is recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you, Mr. Attorney General, for being here today. I 
would like to go back briefly to your remarks regarding the--
before the Senate when you were confirmed in your promise 
regarding Mr. Weiss. Can you explain to us in a little more 
detail who you promised you would keep Mr. Weiss on this case? 
To whom was that promise made?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. So, a number of Senators, in 
my meetings with them, asked me to make that promise. I think 
that was discussed in my interchange with a Senator from 
Tennessee, I believe.
    Mr. Bentz. Did that promise that you made lead you to 
believe that even if Mr. Weiss displayed a level of 
incompetence, that you would be precluded from asking him to 
step down or precluded from replacing him?
    Attorney General Garland. Look. When someone asked me to 
make this appointment, they didn't ask me to depend on what the 
outcome was. Mr. Weiss has made his appointment, Mr. --
decisions, and Mr. Weiss is an experienced Federal prosecutor 
with extensive experience and with sufficient credibility to be 
appointed by President Trump. I just have no grounds for 
interfering here.
    Mr. Bentz. All right. So, you haven't answered the 
question. The question was, really, what level of incompetence 
displayed by a prosecutor under your control would it take for 
you to make a change? Let's move on. The level of incompetence 
I am referring to--and I will just read this to you.
    This is the same Weiss who headed an investigation that was 
trashed by Whistleblowers who alleged that his investigation 
had been fixed from the outset. It's the same Weiss who ran an 
investigation in which agents were allegedly prevented from 
asking about Joe Biden, obstructed in their efforts to pursue 
questions, compromised by tip-offs to the Biden team on planned 
searches.
    It was the same Weiss who reportedly allowed the statute of 
limitations to run out on Hunter's major tax offenses even 
though he had the option to extend it. He was the same Weiss 
who did not indict on major tax felonies and cut a plea deal 
that brushed aside a felony gun charge. It was the same Weiss 
who inked a widely panned sweetheart deal that caused Federal 
Judge--a Federal Judge to balk at and trash a sweeping immunity 
grant language that even the prosecutor admitted had never been 
seen in a previous plea deal.
    So, here is a list of what I would suggest under many 
people's definition would be incompetence. Are you saying that 
this is inadequate for you to have questioned what he was 
doing?
    Attorney General Garland. I am saying that all these are 
allegations. I don't know what the facts of them are. I have, 
as I've explained, stayed out of this investigation. I was not 
present at any of the meetings discussed. Some of the meetings 
occurred under the previous administration, where Mr. Weiss was 
assigned to the matter by the previous Justice Department. I am 
not in a position to comment on them.
    Mr. Bentz. That is too bad. There is a scope of 
investigation memo generally issued when they start these 
things out. Who issued that scope of investigation memo to Mr. 
Weiss? Was it done back on--when he was originally appointed to 
take on the Biden case? Is that when the memo was--telling him 
what he was supposed to do was issued? Is there a scope of 
investigation memo is my question.
    Attorney General Garland. There is a scope of investigation 
with respect to Special Counsel, and that has been publicly 
transmitted to the Chair of this Judiciary Committee and the 
Senate Judiciary Committee.
    Mr. Bentz. Who wrote it?
    Attorney General Garland. Who wrote that scope?
    Mr. Bentz. Yes. Who decided what should be within the scope 
of that investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry?
    Mr. Bentz. Who wrote the memo? Who decided what the scope 
of that--
    Attorney General Garland. I decided what should be in the 
scope. If you will compare that to the scope of many other 
Special Counsels, it basically is modeled on the format that we 
have used in the past, not only in this administration but the 
previous one.
    Mr. Bentz. In your remarks delivered on August 11th, of 
this year concerning the appointment of David Weiss as Special 
Counsel, you say on considering his request as well as, quote, 
``the extraordinary circumstances relating to this matter.'' 
Can you tell us what those extraordinary circumstances were?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry.
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Bentz. OK. So, these are your remarks back on August 
11th.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Yes.
    Mr. Bentz. It says, ``On Tuesday this week, Mr. Weiss 
advised me that''--I am just quoting from your memo.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Yes.
    Mr. Bentz. This is what you said,

        In his judgment, his investigation has reached a stage at which 
        he should continue his work as Special Counsel, and he asked to 
        be so appointed. Upon considering his request,

as well as, quote,

         . . . the extraordinary circumstances related to this 
        matter,have concluded it is in the best public interest to 
        appoint him Special Counsel.

What were those extraordinary circumstances you are talking 
about?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Look. All the Special 
Counsels, including the appointment by Mr. Barr with respect to 
Mr. Durham, uses those phrases. The reason it uses those 
phrases is because that is in the Special Counsel regulation. I 
have said as much as I can say with respect to that without 
discussing matters relating to a pending investigation. I can't 
discuss matters with respect to a pending investigation for the 
reasons I have said.
    Mr. Bentz. Thank you.
    I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from California is recognized.
    Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Garland, I want to welcome you today to this hearing. I 
want to turn our attention to something very interesting. More 
important, the most important thing on Main Street today in my 
district is drug addiction, narcotics, trafficking, and 
fentanyl.
    I am going to quote you. June 23rd of this year, you said,

        The U.S. Government continues to do everything in our power to 
        disrupt fentanyl trafficking and to prevent more of our 
        communities from being devastated by the fentanyl epidemic.

You went on to say,

        We are targeting every step of the movement, manufacturing and 
        the sale of fentanyl, from start to finish.

    Mr. Garland, I believe that the only thing that cartel 
leaders fear is a United States prison. I want to thank you for 
the good job; you recently extradited Ovidio Guzman Lopez, El 
Chapo's son. Thank you very much for that good job.
    My question is, do you have plans to extradite additional 
cartel leaders from other parts of the world to the United 
States to face U.S. justice and a U.S. prison sentence?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, I don't want to get into 
discussions, diplomatic discussions over the matter. Obviously, 
we have indicted the other Chapitos, Chapito being the nickname 
given to the sons of El Chapo.
    Mr. Correa. How many of those?
    Attorney General Garland. Huh?
    Mr. Correa. How many are there of those?
    Attorney General Garland. I am trying to remember. I think 
there may be four more, maybe five. I am not sure exactly. They 
have all been publicly indicted, and of course, we will seek 
the extradition of and the apprehension of everyone we have 
indicted.
    Mr. Correa. The apprehension, the indictment of these 
individuals, requires that you have cooperation from foreign 
countries, especially Mexico, since that is where a lot of 
these cartels are operating. Would you say right now, Mexico is 
cooperating with us in terms of working with your office to 
bring these cartel leaders to justice?
    Attorney General Garland. They have obviously worked with 
us with respect to Ovidio. His apprehension by the Mexicans led 
to the deaths of a significant number of Mexican Marines--
videos, people fighting back with 50 caliber machine guns and 
the Marines having to use Black Hawk attack helicopters to 
arrest him.
    Mr. Correa. Are these U.S. Marines or Mexican Marines?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry?
    Mr. Correa. United States Marines or--
    Attorney General Garland. No, no. I am sorry. Mexican 
Marines. It is the Mexican Marines who--playing an important 
role in the apprehension of the cartel leaders.
    Mr. Correa. So, Mr. Garland, would you characterize 
cooperation right now with Mexicans as being good, not good?
    Attorney General Garland. I would say cooperation can 
always be better. We have an enormous problem with respect to 
fentanyl coming from Mexico, from its manufacture there, based 
on the precursors coming from China, based on the cartel 
leaders.
    Mr. Correa. How can we, as Members of Congress, help you 
make sure that other countries have a stronger cooperating 
relationship with us? How can we make sure that they cooperate 
to their fullest abilities with you?
    Attorney General Garland. I appreciate that request. I will 
have to think about it some more. I will say that I have 
personally traveled to Mexico twice to try to get cooperation 
with respect to these matters.
    Mr. Correa. How important is FISA and 702 to your job when 
it comes to fighting narco/fentanyl?
    Attorney General Garland. It is very important. Fentanyl 
poses a national security problem for the United States.
    Mr. Correa. So, can you work with us to ensure that we put 
guardrails under--around--put guardrail safety measures on 702 
to ensure that those investigative weapons are not turned 
against U.S. citizens?
    Attorney General Garland. Absolutely. Section 702 is a 
crucial, essential tool, but like all tools, it has to be 
properly controlled. We would be happy to work with Congress to 
make sure that civil liberties are protected.
    Mr. Correa. My last minute, I wanted to turn to the 
antitrust area, the European Union and the Digital Marketing 
Act, which is--Digital Markets Act, which is designed to 
protect consumers in Europe. Yet, it looks like most of their 
focus is on American firms.
    No European companies or other foreign operators in the 
European Union are being targeted. It looks like it is only 
American firms operating in Europe, and it looks like the DOJ 
is working to support the efforts of the Europeans in 
implementing the Digital Marketing Act.
    I have 18 seconds. I am going to submit a written question 
to your office. My focus, my interest, is making sure American 
jobs, American companies, are successful around the globe and 
that they are not in any way hampered from working overseas.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I ran out of time.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentleman from New Jersey is recognized for five 
minutes.
    Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Welcome, Attorney General. Following your confirmation, 
Americans were promised they were getting a focused nonpartisan 
to lead their Federal law enforcement. I had my doubts back 
then, and the last two years have more than confirmed, in my 
mind, those fears.
    Never in my life would I have thought that I would see such 
a politicized DOJ. Never in my life would I have thought I 
would see such a Department of Justice that didn't obey their 
own rules. Never in my life did I think I would see the 
egregious investigations conducted under your watch or the 
blatant disregard of the First Amendment by FBI field offices 
under your watch. Never in my life did I think I would see our 
great DOJ turn into a politicized weapon to be wielded by an 
investigation to attack political rivals.
    I still hold the thousands of hardworking staff with high 
regard. Unfortunately, there are some within the Department, in 
my mind, who have betrayed their oaths. For that you must be 
held accountable.
    I hold you accountable for the labeling of parents as 
domestic terrorists standing up for the proper education of 
their own children. I hold you accountable for the anti-
Catholic memo. Imagine sending agents undercover into Roman 
Catholic churches because they were supposedly domestic 
terrorists. I hold you accountable for unleashing a Special 
Counsel with a history of botched investigations on our current 
President's political rival.
    The Department under your leadership, I am sorry to say--
and I am sorry to say--has become an enforcement arm of the 
Democratic National Committee. If there is a perceived threat 
to the Democratic Party--the Democratic Party--this DOJ attacks 
every single time. When there are actionable threats against 
conservatives, this DOJ stays put.
    Protesters outside--violent protesters outside--the Supreme 
Court Justice's home--unpunished. Attacks on pro-life centers--
unpunished. The two-tiered system of justice is clear, and it 
is clear to the American public. The buck stops with the man in 
charge. That man is you. The actions of the DOJ are on you. The 
decline of Americans' trust in our Federal law enforcement is 
on you. The political weaponization of the DOJ is on you.
    Attorney General, I need a simple yes or a no to the 
following, just yes or no, because we don't have much time. Do 
you agree that traditional Catholics are violent extremists? 
Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. Let me answer you have said in 
that long list of--
    Mr. Van Drew. I am not--
    Attorney General Garland. I will be happy to answer all of 
those.
    Mr. Van Drew. Attorney General, I control the time. I am 
going to ask you to answer the questions I asked.
    Attorney General Garland. Oh, you control time by asking me 
a substantial number of things and then--
    Mr. Van Drew. I didn't ask you those things. I made a 
statement.
    Attorney General Garland. I will answer the--I will--
    Mr. Van Drew. Attorney General, through the Chair, I ask 
you, do you agree that traditional Catholics are violent 
extremists? Answer the question.
    Attorney General Garland. I have no idea what you are--what 
traditional means here.
    Mr. Van Drew. Catholics. Catholics that go to church.
    Attorney General Garland. May I answer your--just the idea 
that someone with my family background would discriminate 
against any religion is so outrageous, is so absurd--
    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Attorney General, it was your FBI that 
did this. It was your FBI that was sending--and we have the 
memos; we have the emails--was sending undercover agents into 
Catholic churches.
    Attorney General Garland. Both I and the Director of the 
FBI--
    Mr. Van Drew. This is--
    [Crosstalk.]
    Attorney General Garland. --have said that we were appalled 
by that memo.
    Mr. Van Drew. So, then, you agree that they are not 
extremists.
    Attorney General Garland. We were appalled by that memo.
    Mr. Van Drew. Are they extremists or not, Attorney General?
    Attorney General Garland. I think that--
    Mr. Van Drew. Are they extremists or not, Attorney General?
    Attorney General Garland. --everything in that memo is 
appalling.
    Mr. Van Drew. Are they extremists or not? I am asking a 
simple question. Say no if you think that was wrong.
    Attorney General Garland. Catholics are not extremists. No.
    Mr. Van Drew. Was anyone fired for drafting and circulating 
the anti-Catholic memo?
    Attorney General Garland. You have in front of you the 
inspection of divisions, investigations--
    Mr. Van Drew. Just tell me yes or no, please. We have no 
time.
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know the answer to that. 
There is a disciplinary process--
    Mr. Van Drew. OK. Do you agree that parents attending 
school board meetings should be categorized--
    Attorney General Garland. --the Attorney General is not 
permitted to intervene in.
    Mr. Van Drew. OK. Should parents that go to school board 
meetings and are very vocal about their kids' education should 
be--should they be classified as domestic terrorists?
    Attorney General Garland. Of course not, and my memo made 
clear that vigorous objections to policies in schools are 
protected by the First Amendment.
    Mr. Van Drew. So, it is no. The President this week accused 
you--not the President himself, his staff, and it was in the 
The Wall Street Journal and it was leaked out--of mismanaging 
the Hunter Biden probe. Do you agree? Yes or no? It was in a 
The Wall Street Journal article. I am not saying that.
    [Crosstalk.]
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. Do I agree with the 
The Wall Street Journal?
    Mr. Van Drew. Yes, and that--the information they released 
that said you botched this probe.
    Attorney General Garland. I think I have dealt with the 
Hunter Biden investigation in the way--
    Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Chair, I yield my remaining time to you.
    Chair Jordan. I appreciate the gentleman yields back.
    The gentlelady from Pennsylvania is recognized.
    Ms. Scanlon. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you, Attorney General Garland, for your decades of 
service to the Department of Justice, to our country, and to 
our Constitution. It has been truly honorable service, and I 
think the American public as a whole recognizes that.
    I was struck by and appreciate your opening statement in 
which you made crystal clear your fidelity to the U.S. 
Constitution and the rule of law and your reaffirmation that 
the Attorney General is not the President's lawyer. This is a 
welcome change from the rhetoric and actions of some of your 
predecessors in the last administration when they appeared 
before us.
    As we all should know, the Justice Department works for the 
American people to prosecute crimes, uphold the rule of law and 
Americans' individual rights, and keep our country safe. 
Congress, of course, has a legitimate duty of oversight. The 
blatantly political and misleading rhetoric which we have been 
subjected to today undermines the seriousness of this 
Committee's work and ultimately the legitimacy and core values 
of our American institutions.
    It is painfully obvious to anyone who cares about our 
Constitution that our colleagues have called this hearing not 
to conduct legitimate oversight but to once again defend the 
indefensible actions of the disgraced, twice impeached, and now 
repeatedly indicted in multiple jurisdictions former President 
and to distract from their inability to perform the most basic 
function of Congress, to fund the Federal Government.
    So, they are baselessly accusing the U.S. Department of 
Justice of bias against the former President and his allies. It 
is important to note that those who are noisily and shamelessly 
trying to subvert our justice system are the same ones who seem 
to have both the most to fear from those ongoing investigations 
and the most to gain politically and personally from impeding 
them.
    As others have noted, these attempts now include trying to 
defund the Office of Special Counsel, Jack Smith's office, 
altogether. I, like so many Americans, find this behavior 
contemptible and far beneath what we should expect from our 
country's leaders.
    Mr. Attorney General, why is it so important for both 
upholding the rule of law and maintaining public trust that our 
justice system be able to conduct investigations into 
wrongdoing free from political interference?
    Attorney General Garland. The criminal law can impose 
incredible sanctions on people. It can take away their liberty. 
That means due process has to be followed during investigations 
and that partisan considerations do not play a role. Civil 
liberties and civil rights are protected, and the only way that 
can happen is if prosecutors are permitted to go about their 
work without any external impermissible interventions or 
considerations.
    Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I did want to take the opportunity, 
since this is an oversight hearing, to conduct some actual 
oversight. There was an important topic in your testimony, 
safeguarding the right to vote. During the previous 
administration, I asked department officials in this Committee 
room what actions they were taking on this critical issue, and 
they couldn't answer me.
    So, could you describe the efforts that your Department of 
Justice is taking to protect the right to vote, a fundamental 
pillar of our democracy?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. The Congress, in the form of 
the Voting Rights Act and the Civil Rights Act, authorized the 
Department to bring cases and to enforce the Constitution of 
the United States with respect to the right to vote. As I am 
sure you know, in the Shelby County case, the Supreme Court 
eliminated one of our tools, Section 5 of the Voting Rights 
Act. We retained Section 2, which the Supreme Court again 
endorsed in its last term.
    So, we have brought cases in a number of jurisdictions 
where we felt the State laws unConstitutionally impinged on the 
right to vote. We have supported private parties when they 
brought those cases, particularly in redistricting cases that 
violated the antidi-lution requirement in Section 2.
    We have a task force with respect to threats against 
election workers because threatening election workers and 
stopping them from going about their work is a significant way 
in which the right to vote can be impinged. That is just a 
sampling.
    Ms. Scanlon. We certainly saw evidence of that in 
Pennsylvania during the last Presidential election. So, we 
really appreciate all those efforts. I find this hearing very 
disturbing in that we have elected officials misleading the 
public, attacking the foundations of our democracy, trying to 
sow distrust on one of the most critical pillars of that 
democracy, the U.S. Department of Justice. It is unacceptable, 
and it is un-American.
    Mr. Chair, I seek unanimous consent to enter into the 
record a fact sheet on the Department of Justice's work under 
Attorney General Garland's leadership to safeguard Americans' 
right to vote and to protect our election officials and 
workers.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Ms. Scanlon. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. Committee will be in order. Committee will be 
in order. I am going to ask the lady to please--
    [Off-microphone comments.]
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman from Virginia is recognized for 
five minutes.
    Mr. Cline. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Attorney General, on August 11, 2023, you appointed Mr. 
Weiss Special Counsel. You wrote a letter to the House and 
Senate Judiciary Committees where you cited extraordinary 
circumstances requiring the appointment. You avoided answering 
the question when Mr. Bentz asked you. I'll give you another 
chance to answer it. What were those extraordinary 
circumstances?
    Attorney General Garland. I am afraid I will have to give 
you the same answer I gave before. I have given as much as I 
can give, which is that he thought that the--it had reached the 
stage where it would be appropriate, and I promised him that I 
would give him any resource that he needed and that he asked 
for. To go further--
    Mr. Cline. Well--
    Attorney General Garland. --would go into the pending 
investigation.
    Mr. Cline. OK. Let's talk about that authority. Back on 
March 1st, you told the Senate Judiciary Committee that Mr. 
Weiss had the full authority to bring cases in other 
jurisdictions if he felt it was necessary. On June 7th, Mr. 
Weiss wrote to the Judiciary Committee, stating you have been--
he had been granted ultimate authority over the matter, 
including responsibility for deciding where, when, and whether 
to file charges.
    By June 30th, he had changed his tune and said that his 
charging authority was geographically limited and it would be 
up to the U.S. Attorney's Office, and then you, to determine 
whether he can partner on the case. If not, he can request 
Special Attorney status from the AG, pursuant to 28 U.S.C. 515. 
He had been assured that if necessary, he would be granted 515 
authority in D.C., Central District of California, or any other 
district where charges could be brought.
    Let me ask you, is there some distinct legal authority 
known as Special Attorney status?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry.
    Mr. Cline. Is there some distinct legal authority known as 
Special Attorney status?
    Attorney General Garland. Section 515 permits the Attorney 
General to sign an order to authorize a prosecutor to work in 
another district.
    Mr. Cline. If you had already decided that he had full 
authority, why did you feel it was necessary to sign that 
document?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry.
    Mr. Cline. Why did you feel that--why did Mr. Weiss feel 
that he would need that extra authority if you had conveyed to 
him that he would have all that authority?
    Attorney General Garland. You will have to speak with Mr. 
Weiss about that. I think his three letters are quite clear 
that he understood he would have the necessary authority and 
that no U.S. Attorney could block him.
    Mr. Cline. OK. We asked you earlier about his request for 
this authority, and we need to know who he spoke to about this 
authority and when. Before he asked you in August, he had 
discussions about this with others at the Department. Who did 
he discuss Special Counsel authority with, and when did he do 
that?
    Attorney General Garland. I am not going to discuss 
internal deliberations of the Department. I guaranteed the--
    Mr. Cline. Those aren't--well--
    Attorney General Garland. --Mr. Weiss would have the 
authority that he needed, and the moment he asked for the 
authority, I gave it to him.
    Mr. Cline. Did he discuss it with the Deputy Attorney 
General?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I am not going to get into 
discussions of deliberations within the Justice Department.
    Mr. Cline. That is not a valid Constitutional objection.
    Attorney General Garland. Well, that is a valid 
Constitutional deliberation, and it has to--Constitutional 
objection, and it has to do with the ability of the Justice 
Department to do its communications, just as your deliberations 
with your staff and other Members are protected by the 
Constitution.
    Mr. Cline. Detailing who had conversations and when does 
not implicate the internal deliberations at the Department. The 
substance of those deliberations--simply detailing who and when 
does not implicate those.
    Attorney General Garland. I am not going to get into the 
internal discussions of the Department or who talked to who 
about what. Mr. Weiss has told this Committee that he well 
understood his ability to bring a case wherever he wanted, and 
I have said that he had that ability.
    Mr. Cline. Do you think that the extraordinary 
circumstances that you cited in the appointment have anything 
to do with the June 22nd and July 19th testimony of the 
Whistleblowers Special Agent Shapley and Ziegler?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't think it has anything to 
do with Mr. Shapley. No.
    Mr. Cline. I yield to the Chair.
    Chair Jordan. I appreciate the gentleman yields.
    Mr. Garland, have you or are you investigating who leaked 
the information that appeared in the Washington Post on October 
6, 2022, about this investigation, about the Hunter Biden 
investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. You are saying there was an 
October 2022--
    Chair Jordan. On October 6, 2022, Washington Post writes a 
story about the Hunter Biden investigation. I am wondering, 
have you investigated who leaked the information to the 
Washington Post?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know the answer to that 
question.
    Chair Jordan. Has it been referred to the Inspector 
General? Do you know that?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't want my answer to suggest 
that there is or isn't such an investigation. I know that the 
Inspector General sent a letter to Congress explaining that 
there was--that he had an ongoing assessment with respect to 
the Whistleblowers' charges. I don't know if that's what you're 
referring to.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman has expired.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Colorado.
    Mr. Neguse. I thank the Chair and the Ranking Member for 
holding this hearing.
    Thank you, Attorney General, for your testimony, for 
appearing before us, and for your service to our country. I 
have a great respect for my colleague from Virginia on the 
other side of the aisle.
    I am a bit confused as to why they have zeroed in or 
focused in on this particular letter in such a myopic way. Your 
testimony--and I wrote down words here--that ``the moment he,'' 
meaning the Trump-appointed U.S. Attorney, Mr. Weiss, ``asked 
for the authority, I give it to him'' seems pretty 
straightforward.
    As you said, the letters that Mr. Weiss has written to this 
Committee are publicly available. I would encourage anybody who 
is watching these hearings to certainly review those. As you 
said, clearly, they are consistent with each other in terms of 
reading those letters collectively.
    I think it is important, Mr. Attorney General, to perhaps 
talk a bit about your record and your background in light of 
the various attacks, unfortunately, by my colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle. My understanding is that you served as 
a Special Assistant to the Attorney General of the United 
States early on in your career. Is that right?
    Attorney General Garland. As my first job being a law 
clerk, yes.
    Mr. Neguse. Your first job out of law school. You later 
on--
    Attorney General Garland. After law clerk.
    Mr. Neguse. After law clerk, of course. You later were in 
private practice.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. You left private practice to become a line 
attorney at the Department of Justice.
    Attorney General Garland. That is right, to be an Assistant 
U.S. Attorney.
    Mr. Neguse. An Assistant U.S. Attorney, a Federal 
prosecutor taking on organized crime cases, drug trafficking 
cases, and violent crimes?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. I don't know about the 
organized crime. Organized drug trafficking, yes.
    Mr. Neguse. Following that service, you served the 
Department of Justice as the principal associate--
    Attorney General Garland. Attorney General.
    Mr. Neguse. Attorney General.
    Attorney General Garland. Deputy Attorney General. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. Deputy Attorney General. This is in the mid-
90s.
    Attorney General Garland. That is right.
    Mr. Neguse. In that capacity, you supervised a range of 
high-profile cases. Is that right?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. They were high-profile 
cases.
    Mr. Neguse. The Unabomber case?
    Attorney General Garland. The what?
    Mr. Neguse. The Unabomber case.
    Attorney General Garland. Unabomber case. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. The Atlanta Olympic bombings?
    Attorney General Garland. The Olympic bombing. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. The Oklahoma City bombing case?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. That is right.
    Mr. Neguse. You received praise with respect to the--that 
latter investigation from the then Republican Governor of the 
State of Oklahoma. Is that right?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, who was a very good partner 
in the investigation with respect to Oklahoma.
    Mr. Neguse. You then were nominated and appointed to the 
Federal bench, the U.S. District Court of Appeals here in 
Washington, DC, correct?
    Attorney General Garland. For the U.S. Court of Appeals. 
Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. You were confirmed by a bipartisan majority. 
Over 20 Republican Senators voted for your confirmation.
    Attorney General Garland. I will take your word for it. I 
think that is correct.
    Mr. Neguse. You served on the bench for a significant 
period of time, ultimately becoming the Chief Judge.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. That is right.
    Mr. Neguse. You left that position to return to the 
Department of Justice, where you had started your career.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. You were confirmed in the disposition in which 
you now hold on a bipartisan basis in the Senate.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Mr. Neguse. I think it is unfortunate, Mr. Attorney 
General, that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle have 
conflated questions about various cases that the Department has 
brought with impugning your integrity. I can assure you that 
the vast majority of the American people don't share their 
opinion and that my constituents, the folks back in Colorado, 
are grateful for your lifetime of service that you have given 
to this country.
    I recognize that this is, I suspect, a frustrating exercise 
in terms of this particular hearing because I suspect that you 
would like to be talking about the prevalence of fentanyl in 
our communities and of the work the Department of Justice is 
doing to interdict it, the gun violence epidemic in our country 
and the work that the FBI and other law enforcement agencies 
are doing to stop it. My hope is that the next oversight 
hearing, perhaps those could be the focus, the bulk of the 
hearing.
    I would be remiss if I didn't say one note about a rule 
that the Department of Justice recently promulgated. As you may 
recall, in March 2021, I sent a letter to the Department of 
Justice requesting that the Department of Justice issue a rule 
regulating stabilizing braces. One of these braces was used, as 
you might recall, in a mass shooting in my community, in 
Boulder, Colorado, where 10 Coloradans tragically lost their 
lives, including one police officer.
    The Department of Justice issued a final rule earlier this 
year on this precise topic. Unfortunately, my colleagues on the 
other side of the aisle have made it their mission to overturn 
this rule. I wonder if you might be able to just elaborate a 
bit on how the rule was drafted and deliberated within the 
Department.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Well, that horrific event in 
Boulder is one of several examples of the use of attachment of 
a semiautomatic pistol to a stabilizing brace intended to 
permit its firing from the shoulder. That violates the rule, 
the Congressional statute, against short-barreled rifles being 
possessed without registration, anything under 16 inches.
    The reason for Congress' statute, which I think probably 
goes back to the Al Capone era, was the power of such a weapon 
and the ability to aim such a weapon when it is shouldered. All 
that was done in this rule was to make clear that if you 
convert a pistol into a rifle designed to be fired from the 
shoulder, you are subject to the registration requirement.
    Mr. Neguse. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General.
    I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The attorney general has requested a short 
break, so the Committee will stand in recess for a few minutes, 
and then we'll be back for the remainder of our Members' 
questions.
    [Recess.]
    Chair Jordan. The Committee will come to order. The Chair 
now recognizes the gentleman from Arizona for five minutes.
    Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Sir, is it the policy of your office for U.S. Attorneys to 
use prosecutorial quotas?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I am having a little 
difficulty hearing.
    Mr. Biggs. OK. I will get right on top of this thing. Is it 
the policy of your office for U.S. Attorneys to use 
prosecutorial quotas?
    Attorney General Garland. To prosecute?
    Mr. Biggs. Yes. Do you have any prosecutorial quota system 
in place?
    Attorney General Garland. No. No.
    Mr. Biggs. None whatsoever? That would be an anathema to 
your office, then, right? I mean, it is not policy. So, would 
you be--
    Attorney General Garland. Correct. We do not have quotas.
    Mr. Biggs. Right. So, would it be consistent with that when 
you have a prosecutor who said that they are going to--he wants 
to prosecute at least 2,000 people who are alleged to have 
committed a certain type of crime?
    Attorney General Garland. So, look. I think you are 
referring to the January 6th question.
    Mr. Biggs. I am just asking you, would that be consistent 
with your office's policy if somebody said, ``We are going to 
get--we are going to get up to 2,000 people on a particular 
crime?'' Is that consistent with your policy?
    Attorney General Garland. I think what that U.S. Attorney 
was referring to, was a prediction for how many more cases 
would still be brought because the court had asked how many 
more people--
    Mr. Biggs. Had filed a letter with the court saying, ``We 
are looking at upwards of 2,000. We got 1,200 more that we 
think we are going to get.'' So, you don't do that for anything 
else, right?
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Biggs. Like tax fraud, you are not saying, ``OK, we are 
going to have so many people that we want to get for tax fraud, 
so many people we want to get''--
    Attorney General Garland. We don't have quotas. If a court 
asks us what the likely workload will be based on prosecution's 
investigations that are pending, a U.S. Attorney is obligated 
to respond.
    Mr. Biggs. Did you guys provide any reference of the number 
of people you thought you would prosecute who were involved in 
the 2020 summer riots of the burning of the Portland courthouse 
while there were still people inside those courthouses? You 
didn't file with the court anything, say, ``Oh, we think we are 
going to have another 300, 400,'' whatever it may be, because 
you didn't file those charges, did you?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I am not following. I 
believe that the--
    Mr. Biggs. I am sure you are not.
    Attorney General Garland. The number that you are asking 
about was--
    Mr. Biggs. Let me ask you this question.
    Attorney General Garland. --a projection that the court had 
asked the U.S. Attorney to make.
    Mr. Biggs. Let's switch topics. Maybe this one will be 
easier to follow, I suppose. Is it the policy of the DOJ to 
provide advance notice to subjects before conducting a search 
for evidence?
    Attorney General Garland. It totally depends on the 
circumstance.
    Mr. Biggs. If the circumstance where that you had a 
guesthouse where the U.S. Attorney--Deputy U.S. Attorney 
saying, well, we know that there is--we suspect there is a lot 
of evidence there, but we are not going to really follow that 
up. We are going to--and calls the attorney from the other side 
saying we are going to do a search warrant, would that be 
consistent with your policy?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I know this is no 
hypothetical. I don't know the facts of this case, and I don't 
know what happened. I believe the offense you are talking 
about, as reported in the press, occurred under the previous 
administration.
    Mr. Biggs. No, no, no. No. That event didn't happen under 
the previous administration. Let's talk about that. I mean, you 
keep saying this happened under the previous administration. 
Let's talk about this for just a moment. You keep saying, I 
don't know what happened there, but I am going to opine when it 
happened.
    Do you see the fallacy of that, the inconsistencies?

        I don't know when it happened. I don't know what happened 
        because I am not involved. But it happened under the previous 
        administration.

That is so logically fallacious.
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I am not following 
what is--
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Biggs. Yes. I know you are not following. So, the 
question is you got one of your Deputy U.S. Attorneys calling 
the attorney on the other side saying, look, we are going to go 
to these two places, probably go in the next couple days. Of 
course, then, ultimately, the search warrant is called off.
    I just want to know, is it consistent to call up people 
and--where you know that they have got boxes of information, or 
you suspect they have boxes of information--that is why you got 
the warrant. That is why you are going to go look. You give 
them a heads-up so they can move those boxes of information. 
Would that be consistent with DOJ policy?
    Attorney General Garland. I am just going to say, again, 
you are asking me actually to comment about allegations in a 
particular case about which I do not know the--
    Mr. Biggs. No, I am not. No, I am not. I am asking you, is 
that consistent with your overall policy? Forget Delaware and 
what they did and that they actually did that. Let's just talk 
about generic policy.
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I thought you were 
asking about Mar-a-Lago. I may not have understood that. I am 
sorry.
    Mr. Biggs. Oh yes. La-de-da. So, we were talking about 
this. When we are talking about your general policy, is it your 
policy, is that acceptable, when you suspect that there are 
movable items, to call up and say, ``We are going to be there 
to look''?
    Attorney General Garland. There is no policy on this 
question. The strategy and tactics to be used to preserve 
evidence are left up to the investigators and offices on the 
ground. Sometimes it would be a serious mistake to call up. 
Sometimes it would not.
    Mr. Biggs. Here, once again, you don't know what happened 
in the Hunter Biden case because that is--somebody else is 
doing it. You can be sure of the timing of when all this took 
place. That is one of the biggest oddities of your testimony 
today.
    I yield back to the gentleman from Colorado.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman's time is expired.
    The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from Pennsylvania.
    Ms. Dean. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. Thank you for 
your decades of faithful service to our country, to our 
Constitution, and to the rule of law. Thank you for putting up 
with this day.
    The American people are watching. They know what is going 
on here. This is a gross misuse of your time, your team's time, 
and our time. It is a shameful circus. It has a goal. The goal 
is to spew lies and disinformation, ultimately to tear away at 
the confidence of our independent institutions, in your case 
today, our very important Department of Justice.
    That is the exact MO of a former President: Tear away at 
the confidence of our independent institutions, whether it is 
our electoral system, Department of Justice, the Judiciary, and 
independent news media. The American people are watching this 
sham.
    It is not just a circus. It is dangerous, and you know 
that, and you have mentioned that. I believe that these 
fictions and fantasies are dangerous, dangerous for you and the 
115,000 public servants with whom you work, dangerous for 
national security, dangerous for communities' security, 
dangerous for the rule of law and our Constitution, all at the 
same time of a looming shutdown.
    The other side of the aisle cannot govern, and so they have 
this hearing, which was supposed to be oversight, and use it as 
a big distraction because they are failing to govern. Imagine 
if we go into the shutdown. What does that say to the members 
of your Department? What does it say to our service members, 
U.S. troops who would be training, fighting without pay and 
without confidence in this country's governing ability? It is a 
great distraction.
    So, let me pivot to something I care about and I know you 
and your Department cares about. It is recovery month. For 
families like mine with a member in recovery, every month is 
recovery month. So, I thank you for what you are doing on the 
fentanyl crisis, the overdose crisis, that has claimed 110,000 
lives in a single 12-month period, 300 souls a day every day, 
souls who have died while we were in this hearing every day.
    What is the Department doing to combat the trafficking, to 
combat the amount of fentanyl on the ground? As DEA has said, 
there is enough fentanyl on the ground right now to kill this 
entire population multiple times over. Tell us about your 
important work in fentanyl.
    Attorney General Garland. Well, Congresswoman, let me begin 
by saying I share your personal concern and grief over this. I 
have met with the families of children, teenagers, elderly 
people who have become addicted to fentanyl and who have died 
from fentanyl. Everything you are saying is correct, and it is 
a catastrophe for the country.
    So, as a consequence, the Justice Department has poured its 
resources, particularly from DEA with FBI assistance as well, 
and the fugitive arrests by the Marshals Service and with gun 
tracing by the ATF, into the entire process by which fentanyl 
reaches the United States.
    So, we have sanctioned the precursor companies in China. We 
have indicted some of them for their violations. We have 
arrested some as far off as in Fiji and brought them back to 
the United States. We have traced this--the precursors to 
Mexico, where they are made into the fentanyl pills. Fentanyl 
costs about 10 cents to make. It can be sold on the street in 
the United States between 10 and 30 dollars. You can see what 
the enormous profit motive is here.
    So, we must stop the cartels themselves. I have, as I said, 
traveled to Mexico twice to work with our counterparts in the 
military and law enforcement there.
    Ms. Dean. I thank you for all of that. I want to just pivot 
once. I want to do anything I can to partner with you--
    Attorney General Garland. Appreciate it.
    Ms. Dean. --on this issue so that we stop losing people. I 
traveled recently with the Foreign Affairs Committee to The 
Hague, met with the extraordinary folks, the top prosecutor, 
and his able team. They were very complimentary of the 
Department of Justice and your work. Can you tell us about your 
important role or America's important role in war crimes, 
especially in light of your powerful history?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. I am happy to. So, I have 
traveled to Ukraine twice and--to meet with the Prosecutor 
General there, and I am going to meet with him again this week 
here. He has met with me several times here. The Justice 
Department is pursuing the war crimes from Russia's unlawful 
and unjust invasion of Ukraine to help investigate war crimes 
over which we have jurisdiction, to help the Prosecutor General 
in Ukraine investigate those prosecutions.
    I was, I believe, the first cabinet member ever to visit 
The Hague, the International Criminal Court of Justice, and to 
meet with Karim Khan, who is the chief prosecutor, to talk 
about our cooperation in respect to the investigations that 
they are doing. I have assigned a Justice Department prosecutor 
to the investigatory body that's been set up in The Hague for 
the crime of aggression, and she is there now working with the 
ICC and with Europol and Eurojust. I have assigned a prosecutor 
to the--our embassy in Kiev to work with our investor there and 
work with the prosecutor General's Office there.
    Ms. Dean. I thank you, Mr. Chair, for allowing that answer 
to go on because it is critically important.
    America is indispensable, and your work is indispensable. 
Thank you, sir.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the Gentlelady is expired.
    The gentleman from Wisconsin is recognized.
    Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Attorney General, do you support the 
consent decree that I believe was put in place in the city of 
Minneapolis?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. Do I support the--
    Mr. Tiffany. Do you support the consent decree that was put 
in place with the Police Department of Minneapolis?
    Attorney General Garland. The one that was put in place by 
the Federal Government?
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Yes.
    Mr. Tiffany. Do you support fewer cops on the street?
    Attorney General Garland. Do I support--
    Mr. Tiffany. Fewer cops on the street.
    Attorney General Garland. No, I don't support fewer cops on 
the streets.
    Mr. Tiffany. That is what is happening as a result of--
    Attorney General Garland. It is not--I don't think that is 
a consequence of the consent decree.
    Mr. Tiffany. Do you support--
    Attorney General Garland. Minneapolis has been losing 
police officers for many years.
    Mr. Tiffany. Do you support more crime?
    Attorney General Garland. Do I support more crime?
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes.
    Attorney General Garland. No, I don't.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, there was just a hearing in Minnetonka, 
Minnesota, a tony suburb of Minneapolis, just this last week 
where they were just--they are beside themselves with the 
amount of crime that continues in Minneapolis since the riots 
of 2020.
    I would point out to you that I had an officer in my 
district--I live right across the border in Wisconsin, or that 
is where my district begins. A police officer was shot to death 
as a result of a weak-on-crime prosecutor in St. Paul and 
Minneapolis, Minnesota. The guy served only four years for a 
violent crime. Do you think that is a problem?
    Attorney General Garland. An officer was shot to death. 
That is not--that is certainly not an appropriate sentence. 
That is outrageous. Let me be clear. We are doing everything we 
can to assist Minneapolis. We have a very aggressive U.S. 
Attorney who has brought a number of RICO and VICAR cases--
    Mr. Tiffany. Let me continue. We got a--
    Attorney General Garland. --and extraordinarily successful 
in--
    Mr. Tiffany. I got a real short period of time here.
    Attorney General Garland. Sorry.
    Mr. Tiffany. In regard to disrupting drug networks, why do 
you think there is so much fentanyl coming into the country?
    Attorney General Garland. Because it costs 10 cents to 
make, and it can be sold for 40 dollars.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, Sheriff Mark Dannels from Cochise County, 
Arizona, sat right where you are at a few months ago, and under 
oath, he said the reason there is such a drastic increase in 
fentanyl coming into the country is because on January 20, 
2021, open borders policies were announced by President Biden. 
Have you expressed concern about those open borders policies 
that have led to this rapid increase in the amount of fentanyl 
coming into our country?
    Attorney General Garland. I can't associate myself with a 
conclusion reached by the sheriff, although I certainly 
commiserate with the concern--
    Mr. Tiffany. So, the sheriff is incorrect?
    Attorney General Garland. Look. The cartels in Mexico are 
bringing this--are causing this drug to be transmitted into the 
United States, and we are doing everything--
    Mr. Tiffany. Terrific.
    Attorney General Garland. --we can eliminate that 
incentive.
    Mr. Tiffany. Yes. You are not going to do it doing that.
    Mr. Chair, just so we are real clear here, this is the same 
answer we received from Secretary Mayorkas a couple months ago 
when he was in denial about a sheriff who lives--one of the 
most reputable sheriffs you will find in the United States of 
America sitting down there on that Southern border. He sees it 
every day. He saw it working in 2020 because he told me when I 
was down there. Now, he says it is not working, and it started 
January 20, 2021.
    You can pretend that you are dealing with fentanyl. You are 
not, because the borders are wide open. Do you believe--I am 
going to shift to combating gun violence. Do you believe that a 
prohibited person that acquires a gun illegally and disposes it 
in a dumpster where a criminal or an innocent child could gain 
access to it should be prosecuted to the full extent of the 
law?
    Attorney General Garland. This is no longer a hypothetical 
question. You are referring to a specific case, which is now in 
judicial determination before a court of law. It is not 
appropriate for me to comment on that case.
    Mr. Tiffany. So, for the record, Mr. Chair, let's 
understand that the same prosecuting attorney who is now the 
Special Counsel gave a sweetheart deal to that person.
    Yes, you are correct. We are referring to the President's 
son. He got a sweetheart deal, and the judge was smart enough 
to smell a rat when she saw it. She said, ``You guys go back to 
the drawing board.'' That same Special Counsel is in charge of 
this investigation.
    Isn't that correct, Mr. Chair? Absolutely.
    I will close really quickly with this. There was a World 
Naked Bike Ride in Madison, Wisconsin, just a couple months 
ago. I sent you a letter two months ago asking if you had a 
problem with that because it exposed a 10-year-old girl by the 
race organizer, the bike organizers, to pedaling around 
Madison, Wisconsin, naked.
    Do you think that's a problem? Why did you not answer our 
letter from two months ago?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sorry. I will have to get--
ask the Office of Legislative Affairs to get back to you about 
this.
    Mr. Tiffany. Does it typically take two months to be able 
to answer questions like this?
    Attorney General Garland. It sounds like you're asking 
about a question about State and local law enforcement. We get 
hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of letters. I will ask the 
Office of Legislative Affairs where that letter is.
    Mr. Tiffany. State law, local law enforcement, would not 
act. We were hoping you would. It is obvious you are not.
    I yield.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back.
    The gentlelady from North Carolina is recognized.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you, again, Mr. Attorney General, for joining us and 
for your patience with this questioning. I am honored to 
represent a diverse community in North Carolina. Wake County 
has worked to welcome people of all backgrounds, ethnicities, 
and religions.
    The growth and success of my district and the Research 
Triangle Park depends on our commitment to celebrating the many 
cultures that contribute to our community. Unfortunately, over 
the past few years, these very communities that have 
contributed so much to my State and my district have found 
themselves under attack.
    Jewish leaders in my district have received threats to 
themselves and their synagogues as recently as last month. 
HBCUs across our State have locked down in response to bomb 
threats. Asian Americans in North Carolina and throughout the 
country have found themselves facing slurs and threats spurred 
in large part by the racialized language about the COVID-19 
pandemic.
    The Southern Poverty Law Center reported in late 2020 the 
number of White nationalist groups grew 55 percent between 
2017-2019, noting that the rise in hate-based attacks coincides 
with the growth of the White nationalist movement. The Anti-
Defamation League relatedly found that White supremacist 
propaganda incidents occurred over 14 times per day on average 
in 2020, with a total of 5,125 reported cases, nearly twice the 
number of cases reported in 2019, and the highest number the 
ADL has ever recorded.
    This dangerous trend has continued in the last few years 
and has recently included--as active clubs have been increasing 
in their number and prominence. These active clubs started 
popping up in late 2020 and are a network of White nationalist 
groups that see themselves as fighters in training for an 
ongoing war against a system they claim is deliberately 
plotting against the White race.
    As Attorney General, I am deeply interested and concerned 
about the rise of these clubs, threats of violence, and actual 
violence and wanted to know if you are familiar with these 
activities and what your Department is doing to counteract 
them.
    Attorney General Garland. Well, I'm not familiar with the 
specifics of those clubs, and I will certainly look into what 
the Department has been doing in that respect.
    Very soon after I came into the Department, I saw the spike 
in hate crime threats that were being made and in actual acts 
of violence. I directed the Department to develop a strategy 
for responding to that. Thirty days later, that was pretty much 
coincident with Congress' passage of the COVID NO HATE Act.
    We have now fulfilled, I think, all of the obligations 
under that Act. We have task forces set up to investigate and 
prosecute hate crimes, both as hate crimes, and where they 
satisfy the requirements, as domestic violence extremism or as 
domestic terrorism.
    We have brought dozens of cases against people who have 
made these threats, as well as, in particular, those who have 
attempted to carry them out. As you know, we have a prosecution 
pending in Buffalo with respect to the horrendous killing of 
Black Americans in the Tops grocery store by and about White 
supremacists.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you very much. Thank you for your efforts 
in this regard.
    On a different subject, with my last 45 seconds, North 
Carolina also saw the impact of cybercrimes with the Colonial 
Pipeline.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Ms. Ross. I'd like to know how your office is counteracting 
any cyberattacks and dealing with people who perpetrate them.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. So, we are vigilant to the 
risk of these kind of cyberattacks. In that case, these were 
criminal gangs affiliated in Russia, resident in Russia. 
Fortunately, we had available intelligence from Section 702, 
which we were discussing a little bit earlier today.
    I have to say that's one of the principal sources of our 
ability to fight these kind of cyberattacks, whether they are 
criminal or whether they are launched by Nation-States; whether 
they are attempting to get ransomware and create a ransom; 
whether they're simply trying--or, also, to--simply trying to 
exfiltrate our information, or whether they're trying to 
prevent our computers from working at all.
    The Justice Department has established a cyber task force 
for this purpose, a ransomware task force, and we are recently 
working on cryptocurrency in exactly the same way.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentlelady has expired.
    We're going to try to move quickly with--
    Ms. Ross. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. --the Attorney General, because we've got 
votes, and then, we've got a--
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, of course.
    Chair Jordan. --majority conference.
    The gentleman from Colorado is recognized.
    Mr. Buck. I thank the Chair.
    Mr. Attorney General, welcome.
    My friend and colleague from Colorado outlined your 
biography I thought very well, but he left out two points that 
I'd like to mention.
    One is not only did you lead the prosecution of the 
Oklahoma City bombing case, but in that case the death penalty 
was asked for and actually received. Timothy McVeigh was 
executed--not exactly a Democrat priority to seek the death 
penalty in cases, but you did so because of the rule of law. 
You did so because the facts and the law demanded that you did 
so, and you followed the facts and the law in that situation.
    The other issue I wanted or example in your bio that I 
wanted to point out, it's my understanding that in your 
conference room you have a portrait of Elliot Richardson. The 
reason you have a portrait of Elliot Richardson is because he 
demanded that the Department of Justice stay independent from 
the Nixon Administration. He had the backbone to stand up to 
the President of the United States and make sure that the 
Department of Justice would not become the government's lawyer.
    You put that portrait there soon after you became Attorney 
General because it was a signal. It was a signal to the world 
that you wanted to be known in the same way that others that 
had come before you were known.
    Frankly, one of the reasons I respect Attorney General Barr 
so much is because, after January 6th, he made the very 
difficult decision to walk into the President's office and tell 
the President the election was not stolen; ``We have looked at 
this.'' For that reason, he resigned before January 20th, when 
power was turned over.
    Mr. Attorney General, you're not able to answer some 
questions here, but I'll answer them for you.
    Do you know what people would have said if you had asked 
for U.S. Attorney Weiss' resignation when you became Attorney 
General? I'm sorry, U.S. Attorney. Yes, U.S. Attorney Weiss' 
resignation. They would have said that you were obstructing the 
Hunter Biden investigation; that you were firing a Republican 
appointee, so that you could appoint a Democrat to slow-walk 
this investigation and lose the leadership of that 
investigation.
    If you had made the same decision a year later because you 
were frustrated that the prosecution wasn't moving fast enough, 
they would have, again, said that you were interfering with the 
prosecution.
    If you, when U.S. Attorney Weiss asked to become Special 
Counsel, if you had made the decision then to appoint someone 
else to Special Counsel, people would have criticized you 
because you would have been taking someone out of the 
investigation that knew the facts, that could lead the 
investigation, and put someone in who would have had to come 
up-to-speed on the investigation and wouldn't have allowed 
major decisions to be made until they came up-to-speed.
    So, in three different opportunities where you could have 
acted, you would have been criticized either way, whether you 
acted or did not act in that situation.
    Far from slow-walking, really, once the Trump 
Administration decided that this was the person leading the 
investigation, your hands were tied. You didn't have the 
opportunity to make a decision on the leadership of that 
investigation.
    Speaking of slow-walking, I appreciate your reference in 
your opening remarks, your written opening remarks, to

        The Department of Justice strongly supports efforts by Congress 
        . . . to promote competition in digital markets by passing 
        legislation to prohibit certain anticompetitive practices by 
        dominant online platforms.

    You can't say who they are, but I can. Apple, Amazon, 
Facebook, and Google are monopolies and they have been harming 
this country and harming competition in that particular market 
for years.
    Congress for five years has been investigating and offering 
bills on that subject. They spent $250 million, according to 
reports, in the last Congress to defeat those bills. Now, we do 
nothing in this Congress to try to deal with that very serious 
issue.
    In fact, there are efforts, I'm told, over in the Senate--
and I use the word ``effort'' and ``Senate'' very carefully in 
the same sentence--but there are efforts in the Senate, S. 
2321, to take $50 million in funding for the Department of 
Justice Antitrust Division, and it would be an 18 percent cut, 
and to move that money to the general Department of Justice 
operations fund to try to further cripple the efforts that are 
going on in court.
    The State Attorney Generals and the Antitrust Division and 
Federal Trade Commission are doing a great job jointly in 
trying to combat the scourge of these monopolies.
    My question to you is, will you make sure that the 
Antitrust Division is properly funded, so it can continue this 
very serious effort at stopping these monopolies from harming 
our children, from harming competition, and from further 
strengthening China's position in this area?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, I absolutely will. One of 
the first things I did in the first budget opportunity we had 
was to ask for more money for the Antitrust Division than had 
ever been, had been given in quite a long time, and to ask for 
the fees that are paid for purposes of merger analysis be given 
to the Antitrust Division directly, rather than to go into a 
general fund.
    Mr. Buck. Thank you. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. I would just point out for the record that 
Attorney General Barr left the Trump Administration on December 
23, 2020, not between January 6th and January 20, 2021.
    Mr. Gooden. Mr. Chair?
    Chair Jordan. With that, I recognize the gentlelady--
    Mr. Gooden. Mr. Chair? Could I'm sorry. Since he mentioned 
monopoly, could I also enter into the record this article about 
the Mastercard/Visa duopoly by Proactive and their target of a 
bipartisan bill to reform this monopoly? Could I enter that 
into the record, please?
    Chair Jordan. Yes, without objection, the unanimous consent 
is accepted.
    The gentlelady from Missouri is recognized.
    Ms. Bush. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you for being here, Attorney General Garland.
    St. Louis and I are here to make clear what it means to 
promote equal justice for every person in this country. 
Attorney General Garland, you often speak about your commitment 
to supporting civil rights and the rule of law, but I have 
concerns about whether the Department, under your leadership, 
is doing the absolute most it possibly can advance these goals.
    In the limited time I have, I want to share my concerns 
about specific issues with you directly and to make clear the 
steps that I believe that the Department needs to take.
    First, as this hearing has shown, a small number of the 
Department's cases get an outsized level of attention and 
politics, but the reality is you preside over most of the 
Federal system of mass incarceration. Every day in courtrooms 
around the country, including St. Louis, prosecutors who 
ultimately report to you are continuing to disproportionately 
prosecute, disproportionately, Black and Brown people for 
disproportionately low-level immigration and narcotics and 
firearm offenses. Under your watch, the Federal incarceration 
rate has increased for the first time in nearly a decade. 
Meanwhile, corporate crime enforcement is lower than it was 
during the Trump Administration.
    The Department needs to rethink its entire approach to 
prosecution, but let me also say I thank you for what you're 
doing with the insurrectionists. I urge you to take specific 
steps toward ending mandatory minimums and prosecutory 
misconduct waivers and actively supporting alternatives to 
incarceration; funding Federal public defenders; use of 
clemency power, and reporting on disparities in Federal 
prosecutions.
    I'm also deeply concerned about the Bureau of Prisons. 
Director Peters is not doing enough to address the rampant 
issues of abuse and mismanagement at the Bureau, which affects 
both correctional staff and people in custody. It is shameful 
that solitary confinement has increased in the Bureau of 
Prisons during the Biden Administration, despite the President 
claiming he supports ending it.
    We need to see more from the Department across the board on 
Bureau of Prisons oversight, and you should implement the 
President's commitment to end the tortuous practice of solitary 
confinement once and for all.
    I'm also incredibly disheartened that the Department has 
continued to pursue the death penalty, despite the President's 
pledge to end it. I urge the Department to reverse course, 
including by dismantling the Federal death chamber in Indiana 
and advocating for the commutation of the sentences of everyone 
on Federal death row.
    I'm also still waiting to see any meaningful progress on 
the commitments that Associate Attorney General Gupta announced 
in June 2022 around the enforcement of Title VI and the Safe 
Streets Act.
    I'd also like--and I'm going on and on, but I'm taking my 
time--I'd also like an update on when the Department will 
respond to the Oversight Committee Democrats' letter from June 
2021 about the memo issued by the Trump Administration's Office 
of Legal Counsel concerning the Equal Rights Amendment. That 
deeply flawed memo is preventing the Archivist of the United 
States from publishing the Equal Rights Amendment as the 28th 
Amendment.
    I know that OLC issued a short clarification after you took 
office, but the wording was not a clear repudiation of the 
Trump era memo. I urge you to fully withdraw the Trump OLC 
memo, which is baselessly obstructing Constitutional gender 
equality for all.
    Finally, I cannot over State how shocked I am by the 
targeting of protestors who oppose the construction of the 
Atlanta Public Safety Training Center, or Cop City, and I urge 
the Department to investigate these obvious violations of civil 
rights.
    These may all seem like unrelated issues, but, to me, to my 
constituents, the countless advocates, and to people who are 
most directly impacted, they are interconnected, and they all 
speak to whether the Department, under your leadership, will 
advance justice or simply pay lip service to it.
    Given the limited time that we have, I don't expect you to 
comment on all these issues. I have a question. Will you commit 
to working with me and my office on these issues, including 
having your staff promptly, by writing your position and 
sending that to us, reaching out to us about all the issues 
that we just spoke about?
    Attorney General Garland. I'd be happy to have the Office 
of Legislative Affairs to work with your staff.
    I want to say I could not be prouder of the civil rights 
record of this Department. It is the fundamental basis for why 
the Justice Department was founded. We have a history of also 
being, obviously, involved in the 1960s. When I came to the 
Justice Department--
    Ms. Bush. I'm going to stop you. I'm not, I'm not 
disagreeing with any of that. I just want you to understand 
where I'm coming from, the things that I would like to see. I 
don't mean to cut you off, but I need to reclaim my time.
    Finally, I want to remind everyone, yet again, that this is 
what good-faith oversight looks like, not the Republican 
playbook of running interference for a twice-impeached, four-
times-indicted, White supremacist demagogue who would rather 
overthrow our democracy than admit he lost an election.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back.
    The gentleman from Texas is recognized.
    Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair.
    I thank the Attorney General for being here before us 
today.
    On October 21, 2021, before this Committee, I asked you 
about Mr. Scott Smith, a father in Loudoun County, Virginia, 
who was arrested at his school board meeting, where he 
questioned the rape of his daughter in a bathroom in a public 
school there. You said at the time you were unfamiliar with the 
case. Are you now? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm only familiar to the extent I 
read about it in the press.
    Mr. Roy. You sent a memo on October 4, 2021, directing the 
FBI and U.S. Attorney Offices to address, quote, ``harassment'' 
of school boards. Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. Sent a memo to address violence 
and threats of violence in connection with school personnel--
    Mr. Roy. Directed at school boards.
    Attorney General Garland. Not directed at school boards. 
Directed at school personnel, school administrators, board 
members--
    Mr. Roy. Throughout the country, as a priority for the 
Federal Government, for the United States Attorney's Office.
    That followed a letter on September 29, 2021, from the 
National School Boards Association to President Biden and 
emails from the National School Boards Association Director, 
Chip Slaven, to the White House, in which the White House asked 
for specific threats. One of the examples was Scott Smith.
    Subsequent to our hearing two years ago, 26 States left the 
National School Boards Association and Slaven resigned on 
November 23, 2021.
    Last week, Mr. Smith was pardoned by Governor Youngkin. Do 
you think the Governor was correct? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. Pardon authority belongs to the 
Governor.
    Mr. Roy. You don't have an opinion on whether the Governor 
was correct?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know the facts of the 
case. So, I'm not in a position to make--
    Mr. Roy. Have you rescinded the memo that you issued in 
2021? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. What we're discussing--
    Mr. Roy. Have you rescinded the memo? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. What we discuss in here 
occurred--
    Mr. Roy. Does the memo still exist? Is it still going? Yes 
or no? Has it been rescinded?
    Attorney General Garland. The memo was intended to have 
meetings within 30 days.
    Mr. Roy. Has it been rescinded?
    Attorney General Garland. The 30 days have finished. 
Nothing has happened in more than 1\1/2\ years with respect to 
that memo.
    Mr. Roy. It has not been rescinded? It has not been--
    Attorney General Garland. There's nothing to rescind.
    Mr. Roy. Despite evidence that has come out from the 
National School Boards Association Commissioned Report that 
White House officials discussed this with DOJ more than a week 
before the letter was sent--the NSBA apologized--have you 
apologized? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. I've testified seven times since 
that original memo came out.
    Mr. Roy. It's the first time you're back here since we 
talked about it.
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry?
    Mr. Roy. It's the first time you're back here in front of 
us. Have you apologized for putting that memo out that 
implicated Scott Smith as a domestic terrorist, something the 
Governor of Virginia has now pardoned him from all these 
accusations?
    Attorney General Garland. The memo said nothing about him, 
nothing about parents being terrorists, nothing about attending 
school boards--
    Mr. Roy. The answer is it's not been rescinded, and you 
haven't apologized for it? Again, that--
    Attorney General Garland. The answer is that's not a--
    Mr. Roy. --that labeling a--labeling an American citizen a 
domestic terrorist in a memo, and referring to it in a memo 
that's built on the back of that.
    Now, we have this compliments being drive to the Civil 
Rights Division. Let's talk about Mark Houck in Pennsylvania, a 
father who was arrested with heavily armed Federal and local 
law enforcement in front of his wife and children--this after 
Mark Houck's lawyers had said he would appear voluntarily. 
Local authorities investigated, found no case. Mark Houck was 
arrested by the FBI for FACE Act violations. The jury met for 
an hour. Houck was acquitted.
    Now, when I was in Federal Court, I don't remember that 
being my result very often. In fact, I don't remember it 
happening at all, where we went, took it to a jury, and it was 
acquitted after an hour.
    Did you investigate this or question the United States 
Attorney why they wasted resources for such an obvious result? 
Can you explain--yes or no--that this was a good use of the 
Department of Justice's authority?
    Attorney General Garland. The Justice Department respects 
the jury's verdict. The decisions in that case were made by 
agents and prosecutors on the ground.
    Mr. Roy. Are you concerned that enforcement of the FACT Act 
has been biased toward pro-lifers over anti-life protestors 126 
to 4, by our count? We're asking information to be able to 
track down the information of such prosecutions, but 126 times 
against pro-lifers versus four times for people who dare to 
question the issue of life.
    Attorney General Garland. I think--
    Mr. Roy. So, I'll leave that out there just to say that is 
the Civil Rights Division at play.
    Meanwhile, we've got the very liberal progressive groups 
being targeted as well. Senator Cruz and I sent a letter to you 
asking for information about how the FBI informant had gone to 
a liberal group's pro-life meeting, and yet, we didn't get any 
response from you. So, I'd ask if you would respond to our 
letter that we sent back in March asking about FBI infiltrating 
such a meeting.
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know what you're 
referring to, but I will ask the Office of Legislative Affairs 
to look into this letter.
    Mr. Roy. Thank you.
    Finally, our tax cases require approval by Main Justice, no 
matter what district has venue. Yes or no? Do tax cases, as a 
general matter, require approval by Main Justice--
    Attorney General Garland. Let me just say--
    Mr. Roy. --no matter what district has venue? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. It depends on the circumstances, 
and the example that I know you're referring to--
    Mr. Roy. Is it, generally speaking--generally speaking, 
yes.
    Attorney General Garland. Not--
    Mr. Roy. Main Justice runs the Tax Division. Yes or no? 
Main Justice runs the Tax Division?
    Attorney General Garland. In the Hunter Biden case, I 
assured Mr. Weiss that he--
    Mr. Roy. That's not what I'm asking about. I didn't ask 
you--I haven't mentioned that guy's name. I didn't. I, very 
simply, asked a very simple question.
    Attorney General Garland. OK.
    Mr. Roy. Do tax cases require approval by Main Justice as 
a, as a general matter?
    Attorney General Garland. Most of the time, but not when 
the Attorney General has granted authority to a U.S. Attorney 
to do what he thinks is best.
    Mr. Roy. In a turf battle, the Tax Division approves 
changes--
    Mr. Ivey. Mr. Chair? Mr. Chair. Point of order.
    Mr. Roy. I recall my colleague--
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman's time, the gentleman's time 
has--
    Mr. Roy. --from Texas having a minute and a half of 
additional time.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman's time has expired.
    Mr. Roy. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The Chair now recognizes the gentlelady from 
Texas.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Attorney General Garland, thank you, first and foremost, 
for your public service and your dedication to justice. I'm 
delighted to see you here today. Thank you for appearing before 
us.
    I represent El Paso, Texas, a community right on the U.S.-
Mexico border. So, we have been witnessing firsthand the abuses 
at the hands of Governor Greg Abbott through Operation 
Lonestar, which began in 2021. He, Governor Abbott, has 
deployed State resources and Texas National Guard's members to 
the State's border with Mexico. Operation Lonestar has created 
border management challenges. It's resulted in countless 
humanitarian and due process violations for migrants. Its 
harmed Guardsmen assigned to the mission. It's cost the State 
billions of dollars, and it has completely undermined the 
Federal Government's authority over immigration.
    Now, I sent you a letter, my colleagues and I, from--
Democratic colleagues from Texas sent you a letter in July 
about Abbott's floating barriers. I know that this is now 
going, that this case is going through appeal.
    We have also learned that the National Guard shot, a 
Guardsman shot at a Mexican national across the Rio Grande. In 
September, on September 1st, I sent you a letter asking that 
the DOJ investigate that.
    We also know that Governor Abbott--we've learned from 
Whistleblowers that he has ordered National Guardsmen to 
prevent migrants from turning themselves in to CBP, has even 
ordered that they push people back into Mexico.
    Mr. Chair, I'd like unanimous consent to enter into the 
record an El Paso Times article from earlier this week. ``Texas 
National Guard Orders Hundreds of Asylum Seekers on U.S. 
Territory Back into Mexico.''
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Ms. Escobar. This, in addition to Governor Abbott 
separating fathers from their children and their families, it's 
egregious what is happening on the border via Operation 
Lonestar.
    Attorney General Garland, are you able to speak to any 
responses the Department has had to Governor Abbott's blatant 
undermining of Federal immigration authority?
    Attorney General Garland. I can, obviously, speak on the 
buoys question. When we brought suit under the Rivers and 
Harbors Act for the interference with navigable waters, that 
case is still under adjudication in the District Court.
    Ms. Escobar. I understand that. There are other issues, and 
I want to make sure I flag them for you today at this hearing, 
but would also like for your folks to take a close look at the 
investigation that I've requested. I will be sending a followup 
letter after what we've learned just this week from the El Paso 
Times.
    Attorney General Garland. Thank you.
    Ms. Escobar. Switching gears, I do want to offer you an 
opportunity for some rebuttal. Because what we've seen from 
some of my colleagues on the other side of the aisle is their 
penchant for performance for Twitter and for other news 
program.
    Mr. Attorney General, we've heard a lot of accusations 
regarding some U.S. Attorneys' Offices not partnering with Mr. 
Weiss and hypotheticals about what that means. Can you please 
explain the difference between partnering with a U.S. 
Attorney's Office and acting as a Special Attorney or Special 
Counsel?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, I can talk about it, 
obviously, in the abstract and the theoretical. It's a normal 
process of the Department. If prosecutors from one area of the 
country and has a case that has significance in another, to 
speak with the U.S. Attorney in the other district, find out 
what the policies of the district are, to find out what the 
practices are, to see how judges in that district react to 
different kinds of charges.
    Sometimes a decision is made to partner together in those 
investigations, and sometimes a decision is made for the U.S. 
Attorney from the other district to have his or her own people 
bring those cases.
    I have personally been involved in three of those cases 
during the period when I was an Assistant U.S. Attorney, and 
over my entire career, I have been given 515 authority twice 
myself for this purpose. It is not just a mechanical question 
of what courts require to make an appearance.
    Ms. Escobar. Thank you so much, Mr. Garland. Again, 
appreciate your public service to the American people.
    Mr. Chair, I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back.
    The gentleman from Alabama is recognized.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Garland, for being here today.
    Every time I'm in my district, constituents are concerned 
about the weaponization of government; them being selected 
because they happen to be conservatives. I think on your watch 
now the DOJ actually is a mid '30s percent approval rating.
    Every time the DOJ goes after Trump, he goes up in the 
polls. I think the American people are starting to wake up to 
what's going on, and I think it's fairly obvious.
    The first question I have is, I understand now that we know 
that, thanks to an FBI Whistleblower, that the FBI received 
information on Americans from Bank of America. Specifically, 
Bank of America sent the FBI a list of customers who made 
transactions in the days on and around January 6, 2021.
    My question for you is, did the Department of Justice 
acquire any geolocation data from January 1, 2020-December 31, 
2021? Yes or no?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, did you say locational 
data?
    Mr. Moore. Geolocational data.
    Attorney General Garland. Geolocational. I believe 
everything that was done with respect to geolocational data was 
disclosed in the public findings in the January 6th cases. I 
don't have that at my fingertips, but this is a matter of 
public record.
    Mr. Moore. Do you remember any specific analyses that you 
may have done with that data?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, I can't hear.
    Mr. Moore. Any specific analyses that you may have gotten 
from that data? Was there anything, in particular, you were 
looking for, Mr. Attorney General? Like did they exercise their 
rights? Did they maybe buy a firearm?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know anything about the 
second thing. The purposes, I understood the location data was 
to determine whether people who claimed they weren't inside the 
Capital actually were inside the Capital.
    Mr. Moore. Well, where did--where did the--I guess the 
question is, to your knowledge, then, where--the DOJ, the geo--
I'm sorry--the geolocation data from external sources, 
entities, or organizations, to your knowledge, did you receive 
that from external sources or are you buying that data?
    Attorney General Garland. So, I don't, I don't know the 
exact answer in general. I believe, with respect to January 
6th, these were the results of subpoena, as issued to telephone 
companies.
    Mr. Moore. So, you subpoenaed the telephone companies, and 
then, they got the data from outside sources--
    Attorney General Garland. Well, this requires orders 
authorized by the court.
    Mr. Moore. Does it concern you that--you know, we talked 
about Durham's Report earlier--that he said that the FBI's 
activities were somewhat ``sobering''? Does that worry you on 
your watch, that the activities of the FBI have been called 
''sobering'' now?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, I didn't understand. 
Who calls it sobering?
    Mr. Moore. John Durham in his report. Did you read his 
report?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, who?
    Mr. Moore. John Durham.
    Attorney General Garland. Durham?
    Mr. Moore. Yes, sir.
    Attorney General Garland. I did read the report. All those 
events are or had to do with the Crossfire Hurricane 
investigation. Is that what you're referring--
    Mr. Moore. That was part of it, yes, sir.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes. Uh-hum.
    Mr. Moore. Were you concerned when he said it was 
''sobering'' what the FBI was doing?
    Attorney General Garland. I think Mr. Durham--and I just 
want to make sure everybody understands--Mr. Durham thanked me 
for not interfering with his investigation. I had promised he 
would be able to go forward without interference, just as I 
promised Mr. Weiss. Mr. Durham's--and I did not interfere with 
his report.
    His report reported a lack of analytical rigor, and 
another--a number of other problems with respect to the 
investigation. I think both the Inspector General made similar 
comments and Director Wray has made the same.
    Mr. Moore. Thank you, Attorney General.
    I don't have a whole lot of time. I want to yield a little 
bit to the Chair.
    Is it a crime in the U.S. to question an election?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry?
    Mr. Moore. Is it a crime in the U.S. to question an 
election? Is that a crime?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, it's my fault. I can't 
hear. To request a what?
    Mr. Moore. Is it a crime to question an election in the 
United States of America? It is a crime--is it a crime for the 
U.S. citizens to say, ``We want to ask about this election. We 
want to question this election. We actually want to look into 
the election.'' Is that a crime when citizens just question an 
election in America now?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I think you're asking not 
a hypothetical, but something specific about just this--
    Mr. Moore. I think this is just general. I don't think 
that's specific. Elections have been questioned for decades 
past. Is that now a crime in America?
    Attorney General Garland. Did you say to ask questions 
about an election? Is that what you--
    Mr. Moore. To question an election.
    Attorney General Garland. To question? No, it's not.
    Mr. Moore. Just to question the results.
    Attorney General Garland. It's not a crime to question an 
election.
    Mr. Moore. Because I questioned the election results in 
2020. There are a lot of people in America that do. They 
question the weaponization of government attacking American 
citizens.
    So, you, sir, have an issue with trustworthiness of the 
American people and with Congress at this point.
    With that, Mr. Chair, I'm sorry, I'll yield 36 seconds.
    Chair Jordan. No problem.
    Mr. Garland, did you consider--I just want to go back to 
this question--did you consider anyone else when David Weiss 
requested Special Counsel designation on August 8th?
    Attorney General Garland. No. Mr. Weiss asked to be made 
Special Counsel, and I made him--I did not consider an 
alternative. Of course, to have put in an alternative would 
have greatly disrupted an investigation that was already 
ongoing.
    Chair Jordan. OK. I just want to be clear. He was the only 
one under consideration? It was either no Special Counsel, or 
if there was a Special Counsel, it was going to be the guy who 
presided over the investigation for the previous five years?
    Attorney General Garland. I thought about the possibility--
what the consequences would be, both of not appointing him and 
trying to find somebody else at that time, but there was no 
other--
    Chair Jordan. You had no concerns--the Whistleblowers have 
brought forward all kinds of concerns. Earlier when someone 
brought those up, you said, ``Well, those are allegations.'' I 
think they stand up well. They've been cross-examined for four 
hours by Democrats in the Oversight Committee.
    There were two facts that can be questioned, two facts 
about the investigation of Hunter Biden.
    Fact 1. They let the statute of limitations run. They let 
it expire.
    Fact 2. The plea deal fell apart.
    So, I just wanted to be, make clear that the guy who 
presided over all that was the only guy under consideration for 
Special Counsel designation. Is that right?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss is a person known for 
high integrity, for great experience in this, in the 
prosecutorial realm, and he was appointed by the President.
    Chair Jordan. Again, you can--that's fine. You can say all 
that. I appreciate what you're saying there.
    Attorney General Garland. I have no doubts about his 
abilities in this area.
    Chair Jordan. He was the only one under consideration?
    Attorney General Garland. The question was whether to 
appoint someone, and I thought, I will say, what the 
consequences would be of, of trying to switch horses in 
midstream. I did not consider any other person, no.
    Chair Jordan. OK. On July 10th, he wrote Senator Graham, 
and he said, ``I've had discussions with departmental 
officials.'' He said, ``I haven't sought Special Counsel 
status, but I've had discussions with departmental officials.''
    Who--and I don't know if this was asked earlier--who did he 
talk with then?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry, you're talking about 
the letter that he sent to--
    Chair Jordan. Senator Graham on July 10th.
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I'm not going to get into 
internal deliberations of the Justice Department.
    Chair Jordan. Is there, is there--OK, fine. Is there one 
person, though, who's like the point person at the Justice 
Department for David Weiss as he now is functioning as a 
Special Counsel in this investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss is now subject to the 
Special Counsel regulations, which require urgent reporting 
under certain circumstances; require him to consult with 
numerous places within the Justice Department.
    Chair Jordan. Fine. You're following the statute. God bless 
you.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. That's what's supposed to happen. You said 
there's reporting. Who does he report to?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I'm, I'm not going to get 
into this--
    Chair Jordan. Is it you?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm, ultimately, responsible--
    Chair Jordan. Is it the DAG?
    Attorney General Garland. Mr. Weiss did not have to report 
to anybody. He was the supervisor and decisionmaker in these 
matters.
    Chair Jordan. OK. We have votes on the floor. We're going 
to have to take another break.
    Mr. Attorney General, we'll get back here as quick as we 
can, and we'll start with the Democrats.
    Attorney General Garland. Correct.
    [Recess.]
    Chair Jordan. The Committee will come to order, and the 
gentleman from Maryland is recognized for five minutes.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good afternoon, General. 
How are you?
    Attorney General Garland. Very well. Thank you.
    Mr. Ivey. Good. I want to point out three things that 
you've said so far today because I want to emphasize these for 
the Committee going forward. One of them was you said, ''We 
will not back down. We will not be intimidated.'' The other 
thing you said too was, ``The way to not interfere with an 
investigation is to not investigate the investigation.''
    Now, I thought that was particularly apropos here because 
this Committee has been doing exactly the opposite. We've been 
under the Chair's leadership investigating prosecutors all over 
the country in the middle of criminal investigations and 
sometimes post-indictment, sometimes pre-indictment. I think in 
effort frankly to derail the prosecutions in those cases.
    I'll start with the one--this is the Alvin Bragg effort. 
The Chair and two other Committee Chairs sent a letter, I think 
two actually, to DA Bragg at the time he was still 
investigating former President Trump for potential prosecution. 
Then after he was indicted, they raised the issue again. The 
concern I had on that front was multiple.
    One was one of the letters that the Committee Chair sent 
was demanding information that potentially would've violated 
State law in New York similar to the Federal grand jury secrecy 
laws that we have in some of the matters that you govern if he 
had complied with what the Committee had demanded. More 
importantly, I thought it was pretty clear cut that it was an 
effort to undermine and derail DA Bragg's investigation. There 
was a similar version of that with DA Willis. I know there'd 
been a lot of calls--
    Chair Jordan. Would the gentleman yield for just a second?
    Mr. Ivey. Not at this point, although I'd be willing to 
make your letters a part of the record at the end. DA Willis in 
Georgia faced similar calls. In fact, there are a number of 
prosecutors across the country--frequently, they're in blue 
jurisdiction cities and red States--where they face pressure 
from usually State officials to curtail the way they're doing 
investigations.
    In some instances, the State AGs have stripped them of 
their authority, even though they've been duly elected by 
citizens in those States. With respect to the Jack Smith 
investigations, at the beginning of the hearing, the Chair 
brought up Trump did everything DOJ asked him to do. Now, this 
is with respect to the search warrant.
    I was appalled at what was said. Frankly, as the record 
bears out both in the indictment and frequently in statements 
made by Mr. Trump himself, there were multiple efforts by the 
Department of Justice to reach out through the attorneys that 
represented Mr. Trump and have him comply and turn over 
documents. He refused to do so.
    In fact, the allegations are he, in fact, moved documents 
and tried to hide them so the Department of Justice couldn't 
get them. That also led to the issue where Mr. Trump's lawyers 
ended up having to provide information and testimony about what 
had happened which is highly unusual. This scenario is highly 
unusual.
    We know that's the case because former Vice President Pence 
and current President Biden had similar issues where they 
complied with the request by Department of Justice, turned over 
the documents. So, you didn't need a search warrant. The news 
here is, I guess, if you don't comply with subpoenas from the 
Department of Justice, they will go get the information.
    They'll get a search warrant and go get it. I know that 
because I've seen that in multiple cases in my career. There's 
no surprise and there's certainly not two tiers of justice with 
respect to what was done in that instance.
    In fact, the fact that they took so long to do it I think 
is based entirely on the fact that he had been President. Then 
with respect to Mr. Weiss because this is the most recent 
version. I get why they're doing it. They want to try and build 
a case to impeach President Biden.
    The Weiss angle seems to be one of the ways they're trying 
to do that. As Congressman Buck said,

        Everything the Department did with respect to Mr. Weiss was 
        correct because if the Biden Administration had removed him 
        when they came into power, there would've been howls from the 
        Republican side that you were derailing the investigation 
        because Weiss was already on it.

If you brought in somebody new, they'd have to start over 
again.
    In fact, the Senate Republicans as you testified earlier 
sought your assurances that you would let him continue going 
forward. As you've testified today, you've done exactly that. 
So, I want to be clear.
    I know the Committee is talking about bringing Mr. Weiss 
into testimony. They brought all these other people into 
testify who were part of an active investigation. It is a 
horrible precedent to be bringing in prosecutors in the middle 
of an investigation that's about to go to trial, that's already 
been indicted.
    That's not the way this Committee should be doing business. 
We should allow prosecutors to move forward. If we get 
questions after the fact, we can raise them as you pointed out.
    Mr. Weiss is going to issue a report at the end. Let's let 
them do their jobs and stop politicizing these cases. With 
that, I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman yields back. Gentlelady from 
Indiana is recognized.
    Ms. Spartz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield to Chair to clear 
the record.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentlelady for yielding. Just two 
responses to the gentleman, my friend from Maryland. He said, 
they'll get a search warrant and go get it unless it's Hunter 
Biden. Then they tip off the defense counsel. We know that 
happened.
    Second, relative to Mr. Bragg, Mr. Bragg sued me, and it 
went to court. Guess what the court said. They said we were 
right and the guy we wanted to talk to, one of his prosecutors, 
came here and testified in this room. So, the court was on our 
side there. I yield back to the gentlelady from Indiana.
    Mr. Ivey. Would the gentlelady yield?
    Ms. Spartz. No, I need to get to my question. Sorry. 
Attorney General, you had a very moving statement about your 
grandparents coming here from Belarus to live in the country 
without fear of prosecution.
    I grew up in very similar country, Ukraine now. When I came 
here as a young person, I believed in the value as an American 
not to be afraid of my government. I wanted to tell you and I 
want to share with you and get your thoughts on that.
    Are you aware that a lot of Americans are now afraid of 
being prosecuted by your Department? Are you aware about that? 
Are you aware of that? I'm just saying, are you aware or not?
    Attorney General Garland. I think that constant attacks on 
the Department and saying that--
    Ms. Spartz. It's not attacks. Let me give you an examples.
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know what--
    Ms. Spartz. Talk about January 6th people.
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry?
    Ms. Spartz. Some people came on January 6th. There probably 
were some people that came on January 6th here that had bad 
intent. A lot of good Americans from my district came here 
because they are sick and tired of this government not serving 
them.
    They came with strollers and their kids, and there was 
chaotic situation because of proper security wasn't provided. 
That's a question that was answered really why. Why we debate 
it for 45 minutes on the floor and didn't stop the debate after 
the people broke into the Capital.
    People came. They were throwing smoke bombs into the crowd 
with strollers with kids. People who showed up, FBI agent to 
people's houses.
    You had in my district, in my town FBI phone numbers all 
over the district. Please call. Call that. People are truly 
afraid.
    I just want to make sure if you're not aware of that. This 
is a big problem, and people are afraid of their own 
government. I'll share some other things.
    We're talking about the justice system. I don't question. 
You're probably not a bad person. I don't know you. I'll tell 
you, you are in charge of the Department.
    People right now feel--I look at Durham Report, and I 
called on the FISA violations. There's millions of Americans. 
It's like KGB but Durham Reports.
    You have a nice playbook. First, let's have a Special 
Counsel and then you don't have to answer any questions here. 
Then, let's extend slow walk investigation on Hillary Clinton, 
on Hunter. Everything is slow walk.
    We move very quick on Donald Trump, but you were very slow 
walk. Then, by the time that investigations ends, statute of 
limitation expired, and all your agents need to be tested for 
amnesia. No one recalls anything.
    OK. You probably should have it as part of your hiring 
policy. So, no one is held accountable which was egregious what 
happened in that report when I read about that. I can't believe 
it happened in the United States of America.
    This is my frustration. I'll be honest with you. Then it's 
very interesting, regardless of what it is. Even people in 
Obama Administration raise concerns, how can President's son be 
serving on corrupt Ukraine oligarchs.
    Do you understand that it actually can undermine the war in 
Ukrainian effort on policy? I think those concerns were raised. 
Obama Administration didn't do anything about it.
    These people are dying right now, and Americans don't trust 
this President. So, I want to ask you one thing. I don't need 
an answer because I know you're not going to.
    I think you're probably a good American and you care. A lot 
of these people are so afraid; they cover up this stuff in your 
Department because they're embarrassed that what we became as a 
country to say what our Department of Justice became. That 
allows Russians to do propaganda and Chinese.
    It allows them to destabilize our country. That is a danger 
to our republic. It is a significant danger. I have just one 
more question for you. I agree on corporate crimes and FISA 
stuff. Even with Democrats that we need to do a better job.
    One more question for you. Do you believe that--you talk 
about the right to vote. Do you believe that only U.S. citizen 
should be voting in this election and doing everything to make 
sure that all the eligible people vote in elections?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes and yes.
    Ms. Spartz. OK. I would like to see that, what you do. 
Thank you. Yield back.
    Chair Jordan. Gentlelady yields back. The gentlelady from 
Vermont is recognized for her five minutes.
    Ms. Balint. Thank you, Mr. Chair. General Garland, thanks 
so much for being here today. I know it's been a long day for 
you.
    Now, I'm relatively new to the Committee and I'm still 
getting my feet under me. As far as I can tell what we are here 
today is talking about a lot of conspiracy theories. It's 
frustrating and tedious for those of us in the Committee. I can 
tell you it is absolutely maddening for my constituents back 
home in Vermont. We have so much important work to do to keep 
the government open.
    We're days away from a shutdown. I just want to remind 
folks that we're in this situation because my colleagues across 
the aisle are reneging on a deal that a majority of their 
conference made along with their speaker. That's why we're in 
this situation.
    If they're successful in shutting down the government, 
seniors who rely on Social Security benefits will be impacted. 
Thousands of Medicare recipients and applicants will be 
impacted. Service-members will stop receiving paychecks. 
Veteran services will be curtailed.
    Those are the grim consequences from Republicans inability 
and unwillingness to govern. I needed to start with that. Let's 
do some level setting here.
    Now, let's get to the real work of the DOJ and how Congress 
can help the agency better serve its mission. Gun violence 
continues to plague our Nation. We see the wreckage every day 
on our television sets, on our computers, and in our 
communities.
    As a member of the Gun Violence Prevention Task Force, this 
issue is incredibly important to me and so many of my 
constituents. Now, I believe there's actually room for 
bipartisan Congressional action on gun violence, at least in 
some areas. One of those areas, red flag laws.
    It's a great place to start. Vermont is one of 21 States 
that was able to pass red flag laws. These laws are working to 
keep guns out of the hands of people who are in crisis. Yet, 
many States did not even apply for funding from the bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act to better implement red flag laws and to 
raise awareness about the program.
    In June 2021, DOJ published model legislation to help 
States craft their own extreme risk protection order. Now, 
Republicans continue to make unfounded accusations that these 
laws violate civil rights by taking guns away from Americans 
without any due process. Can you explain the due process 
protections that are put into place in the model legislation 
that DOJ proposed?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, and I would start by saying 
of course there's room for bipartisan agreement. The bipartisan 
Safer Communities Act is a very good example. That includes the 
ability to have funding for States that want to craft and put 
into place red flag laws.
    The requirement is that the red flag law includes due 
process protections. So, I don't know every element of the 
model legislation. The general idea is relatives or friends of 
the person have to go to a court and get some kind of 
adjudication that the person is a danger to themselves or to 
others.
    This normally relates to mental illness problems. It may 
relate to some others. So, if a gun is taken away under those 
circumstances, there's then a right to appeal, to have a full 
hearing to adjudicate the question. I can't say I know every 
technicality. I think that's about it.
    Ms. Balint. No, I appreciate that. It's especially 
important to state like my rural States that have real issues 
with the silent killers, domestic violence and also suicide. 
So, these are instances in which red flag laws can really make 
a difference.
    Shifting gears here. I along with Senator Warren and 20 of 
our colleagues recently submitted a comment letter applauding 
the draft merger guidelines and urging agencies to finalize 
them. Corporate concentration remains a pressing problem for 
the U.S. economy, and I fear that we're falling behind in this 
area and American consumers continue to feel the pain because 
of this.
    With the introduction of the draft merger guidelines, how 
does the Department plan to ensure that future mergers and 
acquisitions do not stifle competition or harm consumers? 
Because that's often the pushback that we get.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, obviously, the intention of 
the merger guidelines is to set forth the enforcement policy of 
the Department. Different generations of the guidelines, which 
I hate to say go all the way back to the time when I was in law 
school, have been adopted and/or been helpful to generations of 
judges.
    I had at least two or three merger cases myself where we 
used some of the learning from the merger guidelines. The 
current guidelines reflect really an adjustment to the current 
technology, two-sided platforms, network effects. That simply 
did not exist at the time of the last set of merger guidelines 
was passed.
    Ms. Balint. Thank you, Attorney General. Just briefly in 
closing, last year you spoke on the subject and said that DOJ's 
enforcement against corporate crime has waxed and waned but 
it's waxing again. That is news to my ears. Thank you so much 
for your service. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. The gentlelady yields back. The gentleman 
from Texas is recognized.
    Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Garland, what is a 
confidential human source?
    Attorney General Garland. Well, it's an FBI term. I don't 
know all the technicalities.
    Mr. Nehls. Let me define it for you. It's in your own 
policy here. An individual who is believed to be providing 
useful and credible information to the FBI from any authorized 
information collection activity and from whom the FBI expects 
or intends to obtain additional useful and credible information 
in the future. All right. Whose identity, information, or 
relationship with the FBI warrants confidential handling.
    So, these guys are individuals. You pay them 42 million 
dollars a year. Did you know that? The IG said you're paying 
for these sources 42 million a year. Did you know that?
    Attorney General Garland. I know informants are paid.
    Mr. Nehls. It's 42 million a year. So, do you believe that 
they're credible, they're valuable? The FBI is using these 
guys. We're paying them a lot of money. Would you agree with 
that?
    Attorney General Garland. I agree. Some are more credible 
than others.
    Mr. Nehls. Very good. So, they're credible. You're paying 
them a lot of money. You've got a lot of them out there. So, 
let me paint the picture for America.
    Hunter Biden joins Burisma in 2014. Burisma, very, very 
corrupt Ukrainian energy company. He has no experience in oil 
and gas. I admit, I don't have any experience. I know why I'm 
there. I have a dad.
    I have with me a document called the FD 1023. Have you seen 
this? You're familiar with it?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, I have seen it.
    Mr. Nehls. OK. It's used by the FBI everybody in America. 
It's used by the FBI. It is a confidential human source 
reporting document dated June 2020. You're familiar with it.
    In this document, the FBI's confidential human source says 
Burisma, now the corrupt company, needed to keep Hunter on the 
board so everything would be OK. According to the human source, 
they hired Hunter Biden to, quote, ``protect us through his dad 
for all kinds of problems.'' Mr. Garland, does that concern 
you?
    Attorney General Garland. The--
    Mr. Nehls. OK. It should. I got limited time. Remember your 
sources are credible, trustworthy, honest, and valuable. Are 
you familiar with Viktor Shokin?
    Attorney General Garland. The document that you're--
    Mr. Nehls. Who is Mr. Viktor Shokin, sir? I got three 
minutes left.
    Attorney General Garland. Do you want me to answer that?
    Mr. Nehls. Yes, Viktor Shokin, who is he?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know. Do you want me--
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Nehls. He's the prosecutor, folks. He's the prosecutor 
that was--he oversees all the corruption in Ukraine. We know 
there's corruption over there.
    For the American people watching, after a few months--a few 
months after Hunter Biden joined the Burisma board, Viktor 
Shokin was named prosecutor general for Ukraine to target 
corruption. One of his investigations was into Burisma. In this 
FD 1023 document, the human source clarified that Burisma's 
CEO, the man in charge of Burisma said he has many text 
messages and recordings that show he was coerced to make such 
payment to ensure Viktor Shokin was fired.
    As a matter of fact, there were 17 of them. Mr. Garland, 
it's clear Joe Biden wanted Shokin fired so he would stop 
looking into Burisma where Hunter was on the board. Would you 
agree?
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Nehls. All right. Let's let the American people decide. 
Play the clip. Play the clip.
    [Video played.]
    Mr. Nehls. Pay attention, sir. Please.
    [Video played.]
    Mr. Nehls. There you go. Mr. Attorney General, what you 
just saw, it was Joe Biden in his arrogance and role as the 
Vice President of this country saying if you don't fire Shokin, 
the United States isn't giving the one-billion-dollar loan. Why 
would Joe Biden say that as the Vice President? Why would he 
say such a thing? Was it policy? Was it our policy at the time, 
yes or no?
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Nehls. It wasn't. I have documents here, interagency 
policy Committee dated--
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Nadler. Is the gentleman ever going to let the 
gentleman answer a question?
    Mr. Nehls. I'm on my time. Pipe down. Saying Shokin had 
made significant reforms.
    Chair Jordan. Time belongs to the gentleman from Texas.
    Mr. Nehls. He's made significant reform, Shokin did. As a 
matter of fact, John Kerry says he was impressive. Within a few 
months after Shokin was fired, they appointed a prosecutor that 
said, ``we're not going to look into Burisma anymore.''
    Cancel that. Forget it. We're not looking into Burisma. 
Boom, here comes the million dollars. Joe Biden threatened the 
Ukrainian President and the Prime Minister.
    Everybody can see it, to fire Shokin or the United States 
wouldn't give a billion dollars. If that is not quid pro quo, 
sir, what is? I will tell you what it is, and America agrees 
with me.
    It's bribery and it's impeachable. Are you going to do 
something about it. I bet you're not, and that's why you, sir, 
also need to be impeached. I yield back.
    Chair Jordan. Time of the gentleman has expired. The Chair 
now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mr. Moran.
    Mr. Moran. Attorney General, you were a line Assistant U.S. 
Attorney for years and a Federal Judge after that. You have 
significant experience with the processes surrounding criminal 
investigations. Tell me what's the normal process for obtaining 
and executing a search warrant?
    Attorney General Garland. You go to a Federal Judge. You 
present an affidavit which you believe constitutes probable 
cause. The Federal Judge looks at it, makes a determination of 
whether it does constitute probable cause. He then signs a 
search warrant, and it's then executed.
    Mr. Moran. What's the purpose of a search warrant?
    Attorney General Garland. So, a search warrant is defined 
either to find evidence of a crime for which there has to be 
probable cause that it's in that location.
    Mr. Moran. When executing a search warrant on location that 
may contain evidence of a crime, what benefits are there for 
doing so without notifying the putative defendant or the target 
of the investigation or his attorney ahead of time the 
execution of the search warrant is forthcoming?
    Attorney General Garland. Sometimes you make notifications. 
Sometimes you don't. If you think that the person who had the 
evidence of a crime is obstructing justice or is going to move 
the evidence or secrete it if you warn them in advance, then 
you don't give it. If you don't have those concerns, you may 
give advanced notice.
    Mr. Moran. So, in the instance of not withholding--
withholding notice, you do so because sometimes they're going 
to actually move the evidence if you give them a heads up, 
correct?
    Attorney General Garland. It's a general hypothetical 
matter, yes.
    Mr. Moran. In most instances in your experience of decades 
of law enforcement, have you seen it more times than not you 
give a heads up to the defendant? Or is it odd to give a heads 
up to the defendant?
    Attorney General Garland. I can't actually make a 
statistical resolution. I think it's the case that the 
government tries to less intrusive methods if they can. If they 
can't, use more intrusive and more emergency methods.
    Mr. Moran. I agree with that. Typically, when you're going 
to execute a search warrant, typically I think people would 
understand this from common knowledge you would not actually 
give the heads up. Would you agree with that?
    Attorney General Garland. I think as a general matter, 
that's correct.
    Mr. Moran. Supervisory Special Agent Gary Shapley, one of 
the Whistleblowers, testified that AUSA Lesley Wolf told 
investigators, quote,

        Optics were a driving factor in the decision not to request a 
        search warrant for the guest house at the Biden's Delaware 
        residence where Hunter Biden had stayed for a time.

AUSA Wolf further told the investigators that, quote,

        There was more than enough probable cause for the physical 
        search warrant there, but the question was whether the juice 
        was worth the squeeze.

She further said, quote,

        A lot of evidence in the investigation would be found in the 
        guest house of former Vice President Biden, but there is no way 
        investigators will get that approved.

    Now, do you agree with Ms. Wolf that the optics of an 
investigation should be the driving factor in law enforcement 
decisions when investigating potential crimes?
    Attorney General Garland. I have to say again as I said 
before. Singling out Assistant U.S. Attorneys is a dangerous 
matter. The supervisor of that case is Mr. Weiss.
    He is the one who made decisions in that case. He is the 
one who can answer questions as to whether those things 
happened or whether they didn't.
    Mr. Moran. So, let's take her out of the equation then. 
Let's just take the statement generally. Do you believe that 
the optics of an investigation should be a driving factor in 
law enforcement decisions as to whether or not to execute a 
search warrant or not?
    Attorney General Garland. The Justice Department has 
standards for its work and improper considerations are not part 
of those. The only questions are those driven by the facts and 
the law.
    Mr. Moran. Mr. Shapley also testified that AUSA Wolf 
objected to a search warrant IRS investigator's requested for a 
storage unit purportedly containing all the documents from the 
vacated office of the law firm owned by Hunter Biden. 
Investigators scheduled a call with U.S. Attorney Weiss who 
agreed they could search the storage unit if it remained 
abandoned for 30 days. Immediately after the call, 
investigators learned that AUSA Wolf had reached out to Hunter 
Biden's defense counsel to tell them about the storage unit, 
effectively ruining investigator's chance to access potentially 
critical evidence. In your experience and you said earlier this 
is not the typical thing that happens, correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Once again, I don't know anything 
about these allegations. I don't know whether they are correct 
or not. These are questions most appropriately put to Mr. Weiss 
at the appropriate time and to be covered in his report if he 
thinks that's the appropriate way to resolve that.
    Mr. Moran. Can you conceive of a reason why Mr. Weiss or 
Ms. Wolf would have given a heads up to Hunter Biden's legal 
team that the search of the storage unit was forthcoming?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not going to get into 
hypothe-ticals about this.
    Mr. Moran. For somebody that was involved in the 
investigation at that point who was literally delaying 
obtaining potential evidence in the case, do you think it was 
appropriate that she was involved in the negotiation of the IRS 
deal with Hunter Biden?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not actually following the 
question. Assistant U.S. Attorneys who participate in an 
investigation also participate in prosecutions. Is that what 
you're asking?
    [Crosstalk.]
    Mr. Moran. Attorney General, I appreciate your time here 
today. I'm concerned that these facts are just some examples of 
what's been going on here where--I apologize. I know my time is 
out. I yield back. Thank you for your time.
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentleman is expired.
    The gentleman from Maryland is recognized for unanimous 
consent.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I had my five 
minutes. I would ask for the unanimous consent to offer some 
exhibits.
    First, I would offer District Attorney Bragg's March 31, 
2023, letter in response to the Committee.
    I would offer the letter from Attorney Abbe Lowell, Hunter 
Biden's attorney, to the Committee of Judiciary Oversight Ways 
and Means dated September 14, 2023, and its attachments.
    I would offer the letter from Ms. Willis to the Chair on 
September 7, 2023.
    I would offer this article from CNN, Annie Grayer, ``Top 
IRS Official Latest Witness to Dispute Allegations from 
Whistleblower on Hunter Biden Tax Case.''
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chair Jordan. You bet.
    The gentlelady from Wyoming, Ms. Hageman.
    Ms. Hageman. We have been investigating very serious 
charges made about your department and other elements of the 
Biden Administration which allege ignoring the law to protect 
political allies from being held accountable for their 
wrongdoing. One aspect of this allegation brought by two very 
credible Whistleblowers from the IRS demonstrates a strategy of 
delaying criminal investigation into Hunter Biden and blocking 
any investigations into the corruption of Joe Biden.
    The Whistleblower testimony notes that U.S. Attorney David 
Weiss in November 2022, allowed the statute of limitations to 
expire even though Hunter Biden's attorney had already agreed 
to extend the statute on the 2014-2015 charges, which charges 
included an attempt to evade or defeat taxes and the fraud and 
false statements related to the $1 million that Burisma paid to 
Hunter Biden while his father was Vice President.
    During a recent transcribed interview with the Committee 
FBI officials from the Baltimore Field Office refused to answer 
questions about the expired 2014-2015 tax charges because they 
were allegedly part of a, quote, ``ongoing investigation.''
    Are the tax charges related to these years in fact part of 
an ongoing investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I have no familiarity with 
the details of this particular investigation with--
    Ms. Hageman. OK. So, you don't know one way or the other?
    Attorney General Garland. That's right. I left it to Mr. 
Weiss.
    Ms. Hageman. All right. So, how are charges for which the 
statute of limitations has already expired part of an ongoing 
investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. Again, I don't know anything 
about this case in--
    Ms. Hageman. So, why would charges that have already 
expired because of the statute of limitations be part of an 
ongoing investigation?
    Attorney General Garland. To answer in the hypothetical, 
because I don't know the facts, often charges from previous 
times are used as part of an ongoing investigation to inform 
information about intent, about patterns and practices.
    Ms. Hageman. For other investigations? So, are there other 
investigations into Hunter Biden where this information may 
become relevant?
    Attorney General Garland. I think it's a matter of public 
record that there is tax investigation of Mr. Hunter Biden with 
respect to other years. I don't think that--
    Ms. Hageman. Beyond the 2014-2015?
    Attorney General Garland. Beyond the ones that are--where 
this--that you're referring to I think he--
    Ms. Hageman. Mr. Garland--
    Attorney General Garland. --Mr. Weiss has already said that 
during the plea proceedings.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. Mr. Garland, is it standard operating 
procedure in your Department of Justice for prosecutors to 
allow the statute of limitations to expire on very serious 
crimes when the potential defendant has already agreed to an 
extension?
    Attorney General Garland. So, as I said before there's no 
standard operating procedure here.
    Ms. Hageman. OK.
    Attorney General Garland. --This is a--
    Ms. Hageman. Maybe there should be.
    Attorney General Garland. Well this--
    Ms. Hageman. This is an oversight hearing. Maybe there 
should be. Maybe you should adopt standard operating procedures 
to avoid this kind of circumstance. Would you agree?
    Attorney General Garland. No.
    Ms. Hageman. OK.
    Attorney General Garland. Because it's left to the--
    Ms. Hageman. According to one of the IRS--
    Attorney General Garland. --discretion of--
    Ms. Hageman. You have answered my question. Thank you. 
According to one of the IRS Whistleblowers, quote,

        The purposeful exclusion of the 2014 and 2015 tax years 
        sanitized the most substantive criminal conduct and concealed 
        material facts.

    How can Americans trust an investigation run by a Special 
Counsel who by allowing the statute of limitations to expire 
irreversibly, quote, ``sanitized the most criminal conduct and 
concealed material facts''?
    Attorney General Garland. The prosecutor in question is an 
experienced veteran career prosecutor who was appointed by 
President Trump.
    Ms. Hageman. We have no reason to trust him, do we?
    OK. How much in terms of taxes would Hunter Biden have owed 
on the $1 million he was paid by Burisma?
    Attorney General Garland. Well as you can imagine since I 
don't know anything about the facts of the case, I can't answer 
that question.
    Ms. Hageman. Probably about $400,000. Isn't that right? You 
can do the math. You know the tax code.
    Attorney General Garland. I don't know anything about the 
facts of this case so, I'm not able to do the math to apply it 
to facts I don't know.
    Ms. Hageman. OK. By failing to pay the taxes on those ill-
gotten gains, what would the typical penalty have been, for 
example, if it was someone who didn't have the last name of 
Biden or a D behind their name?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry. These are all 
questions you'll have to direct to Mr. Weiss and that Mr. Weiss 
will direct in his final--
    Ms. Hageman. By allowing the statute of limitations to 
lapse did Mr. Weiss effectively gift the tax money Hunter Biden 
owed for the 2014-2015 tax years to Mr. Biden?
    Attorney General Garland. To say again the decisions about 
whether--in this area and whether these allegations are correct 
are ones that Mr. Weiss will be able to answer.
    Ms. Hageman. Mr. Garland, one of the things you have done 
over and--repeated over and over and over again is to point out 
that Mr. Weiss was appointed as U.S. Attorney by President 
Trump--
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Ms. Hageman. --as thought that somehow inoculates him from 
criticism by us. Is that really how this game is played, that 
if someone is appointed by a Republican that they are supposed 
to be on the Republican team, or if they are appointed by a 
Democrat, they are on the Democrat team? You were appointed by 
Mr. Biden, weren't you? Are you on the Democrat team?
    Attorney General Garland. Let me just be clear. The point 
that he was appointed by a Republican counteracts the claim 
that this was a partisan decision to benefit Democrats.
    Ms. Hageman. He remained as a member of the Department of 
Justice.
    Mr. Ivey. Mr. Chair?
    Chair Jordan. The time of the--
    Mr. Ivey. Mr. Chair?
    Chair Jordan. The time of the gentlelady is expired.
    The gentleman from Maryland is recognized again for a 
unanimous consent request.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to offer into 
evidence the testimony, or segments of the testimony of Thomas 
Sobocinski dated September 7th. It was taken here before this 
Committee. It goes to the de-confliction issue with respect to 
Hunter Biden's security detail and the search warrant 
executors.
    Chair Jordan. Without objection.
    Mr. Ivey. Thank you.
    Chair Jordan. The Chair now recognizes the gentleman from 
California.
    Mr. Gooden. Good afternoon, Mr. Attorney General. Do 
believe Christopher Wray is a competent Direct of the FBI?
    Attorney General Garland. I think Mr. Wray is a person of 
the highest integrity for whom I have great admiration, who has 
extraordinary experience, both as a career prosecutor--
    Mr. Gooden. Thank you.
    So, you certainly don't think he would knowingly give false 
testimony to this Committee, do you?
    Attorney General Garland. I am sure that he would not.
    Mr. Gooden. Are you aware that Director Wray a couple 
months ago in sworn testimony implicated you in a sweeping 
abuse of power?
    Attorney General Garland. I doubt he would characterize 
whatever he said in that way.
    Mr. Gooden. Well, he testified about the school board memo 
that you issued on October 4, 2021, in which you mobilized 
Federal law enforcement powers against American parents. Now, 
of course, you didn't put it quite like that. Instead, you 
found a pretext which is stated right here in the first line of 
the memo:

        In recent months there has been a disturbing spike in 
        harassment, intimidation, and threats of violence against 
        school administrators, board members, teachers, and staff.

What was your basis for making that claim?
    Attorney General Garland. I will say again as I've 
testified numerous times in response to exactly the same 
question that I saw numerous reports in the press of violence 
and threats--
    Mr. Gooden. You saw reports in the press and so you decided 
to instigate a nationwide law enforcement initiative?
    Attorney General Garland. If I may be permitted to answer 
the question?
    Mr. Gooden. Please.
    Attorney General Garland. Numerous reports in the media of 
violence and threats of violence against school personnel of 
all kinds. We received--
    Mr. Gooden. Did you consult with the FBI director?
    Attorney General Garland. We received a letter from the 
National Association of School Boards reporting--
    Mr. Gooden. Yes, that letter contained anecdotes. It didn't 
contain data of an increase. Did you yes or no consult with the 
FBI Director before issuing the memo?
    Attorney General Garland. I don't believe I spoke with the 
FBI Director, no.
    Mr. Gooden. Why not? Why wouldn't you consult with the FBI 
Director?
    Attorney General Garland. Because the purpose of the memo, 
as is very clear from the memo, is to ask the FBI to assess the 
situation, to hold meetings, and to determine whether--
    Mr. Gooden. Mr. Attorney General, you started with a 
conclusion that there was an increase in threats. Now, if you 
had bothered to consult with the FBI Director here is what he 
would have said: This is from his sworn testimony, that he was 
not aware of any such evidence.
    So, my question to you, sir, sitting today is can you 
substantiate your claim that there was an increase? Of course, 
there will always be criminal--sporadic criminal activity in 
all quarters of society, but your claim was there was an 
increase. Can you substantiate that sitting here today?
    Attorney General Garland. I can substantiate that by the 
reports in the press of violence and threats of violence and by 
the letters sent by representatives of thousands--
    Mr. Gooden. That is a no. You are giving us anecdotes. I am 
asking you if you have data. You also said in your memo that 
you were committed to using the Department's authority and 
resources to discourage these threats, identify them when they 
occur, and prosecute them when appropriate. Were there any such 
prosecutions?
    Attorney General Garland. The emphasis should be there on 
when appropriate, and there were no such prosecutions. That's 
good news, not bad news.
    Mr. Gooden. There were no prosecutions. In fact, Director 
Wray said there were no arrests, there were no charges. So, you 
have no data to show us that there was any increase. You didn't 
even bother to consult with the FBI Director. Then there were 
no resulting prosecutions even though you said that they were 
coming. So, I have to ask you now, in retrospect was there a 
compelling law enforcement justification for the memo?
    Attorney General Garland. I think you're mischaracterizing 
the memo. The purpose of the memo was to hold meetings, to open 
lines of communication with States and--
    Mr. Gooden. So, is that a no? Yes or no, was there a 
compelling law enforcement justification for the memo?
    Attorney General Garland. I believe there was a reason to 
ask for those contacts to be made with State and local law 
enforcement.
    Mr. Gooden. Well, the FBI Director disagrees with you. When 
I asked--
    Attorney General Garland. Well, that's not what the FBI 
Director said--
    Mr. Gooden. Look at it right here, Mr. Attorney General. 
When asked do you have any reason to dispute the conclusion 
that there was no nationwide law enforcement justification, he 
said, ``he didn't.''
    Attorney General Garland. Either he didn't see the reports, 
or he didn't see the National Association of School--
    Mr. Gooden. This is a transcript. I have sent you this 
transcript, Mr. Attorney General. So, my question is this: Will 
you retract the memo? By that, I mean issue a formal document 
to the effect that it is no longer operative?
    Attorney General Garland. I will not because there was 
absolutely nothing wrong with the memo as I have testified 
several times already to you.
    Mr. Gooden. Even though your own FBI Director says there 
was no justification for it you will not retract it?
    Attorney General Garland. The memo is mine. It's my 
decision whether it's necessary to make assessments like this. 
I asked the Bureau to make these assessments and the other--
    Mr. Gooden. Are you familiar with the concept of a chilling 
effect?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry. I didn't--
    Mr. Gooden. Are you familiar with the concept of a chilling 
effect?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm very familiar and that's the 
very reason--
    Mr. Gooden. How would you define a chilling effect as it 
relates to First Amendment--
    Attorney General Garland. That is the very reason why the 
second sentence of the memo says that--
    Mr. Gooden. Please tell me what you consider to be the 
definition of a chilling effect.
    Attorney General Garland. That memo has no chilling effect.
    Mr. Gooden. I didn't ask you your opinion on whether the 
memo has one. I asked you what is a chilling effect?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm telling you that the second 
sentence of that makes clear that--
    Mr. Gooden. I have read the full memo. I am asking you what 
do you define a chilling effect as?
    Attorney General Garland. A chilling effect is when--people 
exercise a First Amendment rights are chilled by coercive 
activity by the government, which did not occur here.
    Mr. Gooden. So, here--
    Mr. Ivey. Mr. --
    Mr. Gooden. --moms and dads.
    Mr. Ivey. Mr. Chair--
    Mr. Gooden. You and I--
    Mr. Ivey. --point of order with respect to the time.
    Chair Jordan. Yes.
    Mr. Ivey. Point of order.
    Chair Jordan. The gentleman's time is expired, but it was a 
pretty darn important question when the Attorney General of the 
United States can't define what a chilling effect is, so I 
thought I would let it go a few seconds.
    Mr. Nadler. The Attorney General did define what a chilling 
effect is and said it didn't occur here.
    Chair Jordan. I don't think he defined it. He just 
dismissed it.
    The gentleman's time has expired. I thought it was a very 
important five minutes.
    We now recognize the gentlelady from Florida for five 
minutes.
    Ms. Lee. Good afternoon, Mr. Attorney General.
    Attorney General Garland. Good afternoon.
    Ms. Lee. I would like to return to the earlier discussion 
about FISA process and the FISC. A number of the Members of 
this Committee and of my community are gravely concerned about 
the well-documented abuses of the FISA process and within the 
FISC proceedings.
    In declassified opinions from the FISC in 2018-2019 the 
Presiding Judge Boasberg admonished the FBI stating there still 
appears to be widespread violations of the querying standard by 
the FBI and that there appears to be a fundamental 
misunderstanding of some FBI personnel about what the standard 
reasonably likely to return foreign intelligence information 
means.
    Mr. Attorney General, what measures has the FBI instituted 
since that time to ensure that these abuses are stopped?
    Attorney General Garland. So, we're talking about FBI FISA 
Section 702--
    Ms. Lee. Yes, sir.
    Attorney General Garland. --which is a central part of our 
ability to find out what foreign Nation States, foreign 
terrorists are trying to do in the United States. I read--when 
I first came into the Justice Department as Attorney General, I 
read the opinions you talked about, and they deeply concerned 
me. I agreed when I looked into it that there was a 
misunderstanding by operators as to--an analyst as to what the 
query standards were. So, one of the very first things I did 
was send a memo to the FBI directing the way in which the 
Justice Department, particularly the FBI, did the querying be 
examined and that corrections be made.
    This was an extension of a memorandum that Attorney General 
Barr had likewise, after he read similar concerns, sent to the 
FBI at the end of 2020.
    Ms. Lee. Mr. Attorney General, in addition to other things 
the ultimate adjustments included additional attorney oversight 
requiring FBI users to affirmatively opt to search the 702 
database, updated guidance and training, and enhanced approval 
requirements, correct?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, ma'am. All that's true and 
the consequence was a 93-percent drop in the number of U.S. 
person queries.
    Ms. Lee. Nonetheless, Mr. Attorney General, you would 
agree, would you not, that there is continued needs to review, 
analyze, and make additional improvements and safeguards to 
ensure that we don't continue seeing these abuses?
    Attorney General Garland. I do agree.
    Ms. Lee. In fact, in recent weeks we saw even President 
Biden's intelligence advisory board make recommendations that 
we continue to revise 702 oversight and restrictions including 
a recommendation to direct the DNI and the Attorney General to 
research potential technological enhancements to the current 
oversight framework.
    Tell me what technology might modernize and improve 
oversight of the 702 process.
    Attorney General Garland. One of the technologies that has 
already worked very effectively is the change from an opt-out 
to an opt-in set of queries. So, you have to first, indicate 
that you are looking in 702 and not just across the board of 
the FBI holdings. You have to use a drop-down window which 
explains why you are going to do this. It's easy for us--
    Ms. Lee. Did that window require the user to input 
narrative text?
    Attorney General Garland. That's right. That's right.
    Ms. Lee. All right. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General. Are 
there other technology-specific changes that you would 
recommend?
    Attorney General Garland. Well, I'd like to consider that 
more. There are various kinds of auditing programs using 
technology. The National Security Division, the Justice 
Department has done some of that. The FBI actually, at the 
request of Attorney General Barr, began an auditing program 
like that. FBI Director Wray, who also agrees that this kind of 
noncompliance shouldn't continue put that auditing program into 
effect within the Justice Department.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Attorney General.
    I yield the balance of my time to the Chair.
    Chair Jordan. I thank the gentlelady for yielding.
    Mr. Garland, in David Weiss' letter to Senator Graham on 
July 10th of this year he says this:

        I was assured that I would be granted Special Counsel authority 
        if it proved necessary and this assurance came months before 
        the October 7, 2022, meeting referenced throughout the 
        Whistleblowers' allegations.

How was that assurance given and who gave it?
    Attorney General Garland. I'm sorry. I think he was talking 
about 515 Authority. Is that what you're--I'm reading the 
letter now. He's not talking about Special Counsel authority. 
It says that I was--
    Chair Jordan. 515 Authority. OK.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, yes.
    Chair Jordan. Same difference.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes.
    Chair Jordan. Well, not the same difference, but the same 
fundamental question.
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, yes. I understand your 
point, yes.
    Chair Jordan. He is making the point that he was assured 
that this was--he could get this status and that status came--
that assurance, excuse me, came before October 7, 2022.
    How was that assurance given and who gave it?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, I made that clear in my 
direction and that was transmitted to him.
    Chair Jordan. So, you told him that--
    Attorney General Garland. No, I'm--
    Chair Jordan. --back before October 7th that he would 
have--
    Attorney General Garland. I'm not going to get into exactly 
the deliberation of the Department, but I--
    Chair Jordan. There are three simple questions: How is it 
given? Who gave it? When was it done?
    Attorney General Garland. Yes, I understand. I gave 
directions from the beginning that he would be able to bring a 
case whenever/wherever he wanted to. That direction he heard 
obviously, and he confirms that here.
    Chair Jordan. I went a little over time, so I told the 
Ranking Member I would extend to him a few seconds or minutes 
if he wanted to say a few more things or ask a few more 
questions and then we will--
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Let me just ask the Attorney 
General--Mr. Attorney General, you have been asked many 
questions here which you were not permitted to answer. People 
asked the question and just asked another question, didn't 
permit you to answer. Is there anything you would like to say 
in answer to anything that you think should be made clear or 
added?
    Attorney General Garland. Look, I'm grateful for the 
opportunity. I just again want to assure the American public 
and this Committee that the Justice Department follows the rule 
of law. It enforces the law equally without regard to persons 
and without regard to parties and that we do the best we can to 
follow the facts and the law.
    Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
    Chair Jordan. Mr. Attorney General, we appreciate you being 
here. The Committee--maybe I have to do something official. I 
guess anyone that wants to add something to it, they can submit 
that for the record.
    With that, the Committee is adjourned.
    Attorney General Garland. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 3:29 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

    All materials submitted for the record by Members of the 
Committee on the Judiciary can be found at: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=116381.

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