[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                 PART 1: COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 118TH 
                                CONGRESS
=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                           COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
                             ADMINISTRATION

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                           FEBRUARY 28, 2023

                               __________

      Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration
      
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                           www.cha.house.gov
                           
                                __________

                                
                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
53-181                        WASHINGTON : 2023                    
          
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                   Committee on House Administration

                    BRYAN STEIL, WISCONSIN, Chairman

BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia              Ranking Member
GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             DEREK KILMER, Washington
MIKE CAREY, Ohio                     NORMA TORRES, California
ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO, New York
LAUREL LEE, Florida
                        
                        C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

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                                                                   Page

                           Opening Statements

The Honorable Bryan Steil, Chairman from the State of Wisconsin..     1
The Honorable Joseph Morelle, Ranking Member from the State of 
  New York.......................................................     2

                          Prepared Statements

James Comer, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Kentucky.......................................................     3
Jamie Raskin, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Maryland.......................................................     4
Mike Bost, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Illinois.......................................................     8
Mark Takano, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  California.....................................................     9
 Bruce Westerman, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Arkansas.......................................................    13
Raul Grijalva, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Arizona........................................................    14
Jodey C. Arrington, a Representative in Congress from the State 
  of Texas.......................................................    17
Brendan F. Boyle, a Representative from the State of Pennsylvania    19
Tom Cole, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oklahoma    22
James P. McGovern, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Massachusetts..................................................    23
Jim Jordan, a Representative in Congress from the State of Ohio..    27
Jerrold Nadler, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  New York.......................................................    28
Virginia Foxx, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  North Carolina.................................................    35
Robert C. "Bobby" Scott, a Representative in Congress from the 
  State of North Carolina........................................    36
Michael R. Turner, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Ohio...........................................................    39
James A. Himes, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Connecticut....................................................    41
Sam Graves, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Missouri.......................................................    45
Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Washington.....................................................    46
Frank D. Lucas, a Representative in Congress from the State of 
  Oklahoma.......................................................    49

                       Submission for the Record

Prepared Statement for Zoe Lofgren, a Representative in Congress 
  from the State of Oklahoma.....................................    49

 
            PART 1: COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 118TH CONGRESS

                              ----------                              


                       TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2023

         Committee on House Administration,
                          House of Representatives,
                                                    Washington, DC.

    The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., in 
room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil 
[Chairman of the committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Steil, Loudermilk, Griffith, 
Murphy, Bice, Carey, D'Esposito, Lee, Morelle, Sewell, Torres, 
and Kilmer.
    Staff present: Tim Monahan, Staff Director; Caleb Hays, 
Deputy Staff Director, General Counsel, Acting Parliamentarian; 
Hillary Lassiter, Clerk; Janet Schwalb, Deputy Staff Director 
of Advice and Guidance; Nick Crocker, Deputy Staff Director; 
Jordan Wilson, Director of Member Services; Cade Alcock, 
Assistant Clerk; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; Khalil 
Abboud, Minority Chief Counsel; Matthew Schlesinger, Minority 
Oversight Counsel; Owen Reilly, Minority Legislative Assistant; 
Eddie Flaherty, Minority Chief Clerk; and Andrew Garcia, 
Minority Staff Assistant.
    The Chairman. The Committee on House Administration will 
come back to order.
    I note that a quorum is present.
    Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any 
time.
    I have been looking forward to these next 2 days of 
hearings because it is one of the most important and impact 
roles we have as a committee. These hearings present our 
commitment to oversight and transparency on behalf of the 
entire House.
    As members of Congress elected by the people for the 
people, it is our duty to be accountable to the people. We are 
tasked with being good stewards of taxpayer dollars to ensure 
Congress and each committee is working effectively for the 
American people.
    Committees are where so much critical work is accomplished. 
Each committee has a unique role to play in ensuring that 
Congress is serving all Americans, from factory workers to 
farmers to students to veterans to law enforcement to election 
administrators and our military. Committees also ensure we are 
exercising robust checks and balances on the other branches of 
government, like preventing the vaporization of Federal 
committees--Federal agencies.
    Our job over the next 2 days is to hear from both the Chair 
and Ranking Members of each committee on what resources they 
need to accomplish their respective goals. In keeping with our 
commitment to transparency, our process to fund committees will 
be conducted by restoring regular order, which this committee 
has not done since 2017.
    Today and tomorrow, each committee's Chair and Ranking 
Member will present their respective biennial funding requests. 
Our committee's role is to authorize and not appropriate. It is 
critically important to me that our review and approval process 
is completed with full candor.
    At the close of our hearing tomorrow, we will have provided 
the American taxpayer with more transparency on how Congress is 
spending their hard-earned money. We will continue our goal of 
being an open, accessible, and transparent committee, and we 
look forward to giving every other committee the platform to do 
the same through this process.
    Congress will be accountable to the American people.
    I now recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 5 minutes for 
the purpose of making an opening statement.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Chairman Steil, for your opening 
remarks and for convening this hearing.
    House rules require that this committee must report and the 
House must adopt a primary expense resolution to provide 
funding to most select and standing committees in each 
Congress. The funding process is a collaborative enterprise, 
and it has traditionally been the most bipartisan effort the 
Committee on House Administration undertakes.
    I would like to thank all of our committee Chairs and 
Ranking Members for working with us to allow this committee 
fulfill the obligations we are tasked with by the House rules. 
I would also like to note the work of the bipartisan House 
Administration staff who has been managing all this paper 
before us. Eddie Flaherty has led the effort on our team, and I 
would like to recognize as well Hillary Lassiter and Janet 
Schwalb from the Republican staff as well for their 
cooperation.
    Over the next few days, I look forward to continuing the 
discussion with the committee leadership before us on their 
oversight plans and budgets. I know that not everyone will get 
everything they want, but I am confident that we can work 
together to make sure everyone gets what they need to fulfill 
their responsibilities, and looking forward to this exercise, 
looking forward to the testimony and the discussion today and 
tomorrow and in the days ahead.
    With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. I thank the Ranking Member.
    Without objection, all other members' opening statements 
will be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted 
to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. today.
    Today, we will hear from the Chair and Ranking Member of 12 
committees, beginning with the Committee on Oversight and 
Accountability. For each panel, we will begin by recognizing 
the Chair for 5 minutes, followed by the Ranking Member.
    Then the majority and minority will each have 5 total 
minutes per side to question the witnesses, and I will keep the 
clock reasonably tight on that.
    I now welcome our first panel of witnesses: Chairman Comer 
and Ranking Member Raskin.
    As a reminder, we have read your entire written statement, 
and it will appear in full in the hearing record.
    Under committee Rule 9, you are to limit your oral 
presentation to a brief summary of your written statement 
unless I, in consultation with the Ranking Member, extend the 
time period.
    Please remember to press the button on the microphone in 
front of you so that it is on and members can hear you.
    When you begin to speak, a light in front of you will turn 
green. When the red light comes on, your 5 minutes have 
expired, and we ask you to please wrap up.
    I now recognize Chairman Comer for 5 minutes, followed by 
Ranking Member Raskin.
    Mr. Comer?

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES COMER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY

    Mr. Comer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for 
holding this committee funding hearing today.
    Ranking Member Raskin and I are pleased to submit the House 
Oversight and Accountability Committee's budget request for the 
118th Congress.
    Our budget request seeks $29.9 million. If accepted, this 
is a modest increase of 2.5 percent, not adjusting for 
inflation. This is also a combined budget request. It will 
operate both the committee and the select subcommittee on the 
Coronavirus Pandemic.
    Ranking Member Raskin and the minority will receive 33 
percent of the budget and staff positions.
    Our committee's mission is to protect taxpayer dollars from 
fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement, and works to ensure the 
efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability of the Federal 
Government. Therefore, our budget request is an investment in 
oversight. It is an investment in skilled staff and a 
commitment to travel to conduct oversight.
    To conduct fulsome oversight and meaningful investigations, 
the committee needs skilled and experienced staff. The 
committee has recruited and continues to recruit staff with 
oversight expertise and diverse skill sets.
    Our proposed budget will allow the committee to not only 
recruit but retain legal and investigative staff to do our 
important oversight work.
    Our budget request anticipates 118 staff positions for the 
committee, both majority and minority, with an additional 15 
staff positions for the select subcommittee, for a total of 133 
staff positions.
    The committee and the Nation has returned to in-person 
work. Therefore, as part of our oversight mission, we will 
resume conducting a significant amount of oversight outside the 
Capital Beltway. The committee plans to hold five field 
hearings, perform site visits, and conduct investigative work 
in our states.
    Our Nation is a big, diverse Nation. To understand 
America's needs, priorities, and concerns, we must hear 
directly from them. By resuming previous levels of oversight 
travel, we will be able to better conduct robust oversight on 
behalf of the American people.
    Last, the committee's budget includes the select 
subcommittee's budget. The select subcommittee will be 
conducting essential oversight to understand the origins of the 
COVID-19 virus and lessons learned from our Federal 
Government's response to the pandemic. To conduct this 
oversight, the select subcommittee will need staff with 
specialized scientific and medical expertise.
    In closing, Ranking Member Raskin and I appreciate your 
consideration for our budget request. We also appreciate your 
commitment to our committee's oversight mission.
    We are looking forward to fulfilling this important mission 
during the 118th Congress.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Comer follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. The Ranking Member is recognized.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMIE RASKIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

    Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Morelle, members 
of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify. It 
is an honor to be here in this committee, which I love and 
which I miss. I know you are in good hands with Chairman Steil 
and with my friend, Mr. Morelle, for the minority.
    Since the 115th Congress, I have served on the Oversight 
Committee, which had the broadest jurisdiction and arguably the 
most important mandate in the House: to ensure a transparent 
and responsive government accountable to the people.
    Accordingly, Chairman Comer and I are seeking a combined 
$29,923,637 for the 118th. This represents a modest increase in 
the budget of 2.5-percent without adjusting for inflation.
    I am pleased to report that the Chairman and I have reached 
an agreement regarding allocation of funding between the 
majority and minority of the committee, with the minority being 
allocated one-third of the budget and the majority being 
allocated the two-thirds, the customary practice.
    We are proud of the work of our committee. The role of 
oversight is----
    The Chairman. Ranking Member Raskin, if I could, I don't 
believe your mike is on, which is not being picked up, then, on 
the live feed----
    Mr. Raskin. Oh, I am sorry.
    The Chairman [continuing]. though I can hear you. Thank 
you.
    Mr. Raskin. I will just start again, then.
    Just briefly, Mr. Chairman, the role of our committee is to 
ensure that our government and laws would make our working 
effectively, efficiently, and equitably for the American 
people. To fulfill this mission, we need to recruit and retain 
experienced staff with a diverse set of skills and experience. 
The committee has an extremely hardworking staff which is 
passionate about public service and about the mission of the 
committee.
    The budget we have proposed and our agreed-upon allocation 
of funding will enable us to conduct the essential oversight 
work of the 118th Congress.
    Thank you for your time and consideration, and I stand 
ready with Chairman Comer to answer the questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Raskin follows:]
 
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    The Chairman. Thank you both.
    I now recognize myself for the purpose of questioning our 
witnesses.
    Chairman Comer, the Coronaries subcommittee from last 
Congress has been replaced in this Congress with the Coronaries 
Pandemic subcommittee.
    Could you give insight as to how the new subcommittee will 
differ in its mission and purpose from the last Congress?
    Also, what official resources does the subcommittee need to 
properly fund and operate?
    Mr. Comer. It is going to be--we are asking for the exact 
same budget that the committee had in the previous Congress. I 
think, this Congress, we are going to be focused more on the 
origination of COVID-19, as well as trying to focus more on the 
grant process that was used to fund different types of 
coronaries research.
    The Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if I can, the microphones--
although with can hear each other, I think, just fine, I know 
the folks----
    Mr. Comer. Got it. Okay.
    The Chairman [continuing]. involved in the live feed----
    Mr. Comer. Yes.
    The Chairman [continuing]. are interested in hearing you as 
well.
    Mr. Comer. Basically, it is the same budget as the previous 
Congress. The mission, though similar, will focus more on the 
origination of COVID-19, as well as the--we will examine the 
tax dollars that were potentially used for gain-of-function 
research, any type of coronaries research.
    We are also going to look at the vaccines, you know, 
anything post-COVID now. I think a lot of what the committee 
was focused on prior to this Congress was pre and current 
COVID. We are going to be looking a lot on post-COVID, learn 
from mistakes. We are going to try to determine the extent of 
the American investment in COVID, not just in--in potential 
research, in origination type things, but as well as, you know, 
hopefully learning from mistakes moving forward.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I think many Americans are interested in the work of the 
subcommittee and appreciate your focus on that.
    Let me shift from the big picture, if I can, into a little 
bit more of the mundane because I think it is important to this 
committee as we think about the use of taxpayer dollars.
    The Committee on Oversight and Accountability currently 
uses a document management system called Concordance. Not sure 
how familiar you are with this, but curious if you have insight 
as to how effective the software is in managing the committee's 
documents and if it is a software that is easy to use and 
maintain.
    One of the things we are often looking for is shared 
services, ways to better leverage the purchasing power of the 
House. Curious if you could give us a little insight into your 
experience with this program.
    Mr. Comer. Yes. The Concordance software, it is difficult 
to use. It is costly and difficult to train staff on how to 
use. We would like to use a more robust software package, but 
they are cost-prohibitive on the current committee budget. 
These other packages are more user friendly and have better 
systems in place to organize and search documents and 
production. That is a challenge for us.
    The Chairman. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate 
that. I know that is kind of in the weeds, but it is one of the 
things that we are looking at this committee, is where we can 
leverage shared services to better provide services to all 
committees and protect taxpayers.
    Appreciate your time. Appreciate both of you being here. We 
miss you, Ranking Member Raskin, from serving on this 
committee. Maybe you will be able to return at some point in 
the future.
    I now will yield and recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 
the purpose of asking questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you to you, Chairman Comer, for being here.
    Mr. Raskin and I spent 4 quality years on the Rules 
Committee together, so I miss spending all that time with you, 
but nice to see you, Ranking Member.
    I want to just begin by checking in relative to the 
allocation by--to the minority. I know the committee is 
generally now splitting two-thirds/one-third, with some small 
exceptions. I understand you are in agreement with the 
proposal.
    I just want to confirm that, if granted, the minority will 
have unrestricted access to the resources they need, Mr. 
Chairman?
    Mr. Comer. We agreed to the two-thirds/one-third, yes.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes, but beyond that, just to make sure that--
confirm that they will have unrestricted access to the research 
that they need within that one-third?
    Mr. Comer. Yes. Yes, absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good. Very good.
    To you Mr. Raskin, are you confident that you have reached 
an agreement which will allow you access to the dollars you 
need within the context of the budget agreement?
    Mr. Raskin. Yes. Within the two-third/one-third split, I 
have every confidence.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good.
    Mr. Raskin. The Chairman will honor that and if he wants to 
make it more like 60/40, that is also----
    Mr. Morelle. I will leave that to you. Thank you.
    I yield back, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I thank both the Chairman and the Ranking Member for your 
testimony and for appearing before us today.
    Mr. Griffith. Mr. Chairman?
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. The testimony has been 
helpful.
    Mr. Griffith. Am I allowed to ask questions?
    The Chairman. Yes. We have time remaining if the Chair and 
Ranking Member do. I will yield to Mr. Griffith for----
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. For his asking questions.
    Mr. Griffith. Mr. Chairman Comer----
    Mr. Comer. Yes, sir?
    Mr. Griffith [continuing]. I see that you are getting 15 
additional staffers. I am not sure that is enough for you all. 
I note that E&C is only getting eight. We have some overlap. I 
am just wondering if you think that you might need a little bit 
more? I certainly believe that E&C probably needs some more 
with all the oversight that we need to do. Would you agree with 
that?
    Mr. Comer. Yes. There is a lot of oversight needed in this 
town, no shortage of oversight demand. We could get into an 
argument over how much oversight was provided previously in the 
last 2 years of this administration.
    Regardless, we would love to have more, but I am pretty 
confident we will be able to manage on what we have. We have--
we have requested a lot of information, and hopefully some of 
this information will start coming in. We--it is--I don't think 
this administration understands oversight yet and that is our 
role.
    Not just the Oversight committee, but Energy and Commerce 
and every other committee has oversight jurisdiction. So we are 
ready to go, and--but I am confident that we will be able to 
manage. It would always be nice to have more staff.
    Mr. Griffith. Further, Mr. Chairman Comer, I would just 
suggest that--and I am sure they are already doing it--your 
team talk with Alan Slobodin of the Energy and Commerce 
oversight team. He has done tremendous work on origins and----
    Mr. Comer. Absolutely.
    Mr. Griffith [continuing]. has a lot of holes and a lot of 
questions.
    Mr. Comer. Yes. Yes, absolutely. A lot of good stuff coming 
out now, so----
    Mr. Griffith. Yes.
    Mr. Comer. More to come, I am sure.
    Mr. Griffith. I appreciate it and yield back. Thank you, 
Mr. Chairman.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. I--again, I appreciate 
the time of the Ranking Member and the Chair for coming before 
us. Your testimony was helpful.
    Wish you a good day.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you.
    Mr. Comer. Thank you all.
    The Chairman. We will pause while our next witnesses 
arrive.
    We will reconvene.
    I would like to welcome Chairman Bost and Ranking Member 
Takano of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs. As a reminder, we 
have read your written statement, and we ask that you limit 
your testimony to 5 minutes.
    We are going to dive right in, and I will now recognize 
Chairman Bost for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. MIKE BOST, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

    Mr. Bost. Alright. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking 
Member Morelle, for the opportunity to discuss the Committee on 
Veterans' Affairs' budget for the 118th.
    Ranking Member Takano and I, who joins me here, we have 
submitted our funding request for the 118th Congress per your 
committee's guidance. As you know, the committee has oversight 
over--of the entire Department of Veterans Affairs, various 
programs serving veterans at the Department of Labor and 
Defense, Arlington National Cemetery, and our overseas 
cemeteries, as well as all other matters, all to ensure that 
the VA is meeting their mission for the over 9 million 
veterans, their families, and their survivors they serve every 
single day.
    VA is the second largest Federal agency and the largest 
integrated healthcare system in the country, employing over 
380,000 people with a budget of $303 billion this fiscal year.
    Now, since 2017, the VA has seen a budgetary growth of over 
$120 billion and employees' growth of nearly 20,000. To put 
that in perspective, the number of employees added to the VA 
workforce in the last 6 years alone is roughly the equivalent 
of three times the population of my hometown in Murphysboro, 
Illinois. So, needless to say, oversight of such a vastly 
growing government agency is critical.
    Ensuring effective stewardship of taxpayer dollars is 
essential for the delivery of care and services to our 
veterans, and wasting of those dollars is unacceptable. We owe 
it to our veterans and taxpayers to ensure VA is making marked 
progress regarding veterans' access to healthcare; wait times 
at the hospitals and clinics; proper use of the MISSION Act; 
and the backlog of disability claims; implementation of the 
electronic health record and, more recently, the implementation 
of the PACT Act.
    To accomplish this mission, the committee needs essential 
talented staff with experience. Accordingly, we requested a 4-
percent increase in the committee's annual personnel budget for 
2024. Realizing that the size of the primary agency the 
committee oversees, I hope we can all agree that it is a modest 
investment to make.
    At this time, we are not requesting additional resources 
for the committee travel and equipment needs. We, with the 
current budget allotted for the travel and committee, have 
independently been able to conduct vitally important 
investigations of whistle-blower complaints at various VA 
facilities across the country.
    These investigations are essential for the establishment 
and establishing an accurate picture of what is happening on 
the ground relative to what we are being told here in D.C.
    Mr. Chairman, you have my assurance that we will continue 
to account for and stretch every dollar afforded us as we meet 
and exceed the expectations placed upon us, but my humble 
request of you and the Ranking Member and the members of the 
committee is that we build on the oversight successes we made 
in recent years with the small addition to the personnel budget 
that I have previously mentioned.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today, 
and I know that Mr. Takano will make--say more on the 
bipartisan work that the committee has done together and what 
we plan to accomplish this Congress for the veterans and their 
families.
    I would be glad to answer any questions when Mr. Takano has 
finished his remarks.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bost follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman Bost.
    Now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Takano.

  MARK TAKANO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF 
                           CALIFORNIA

    Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking Member 
Morelle, for having us here today to talk about the budget for 
the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs in the 118th Congress.
    Our committee was one of the busiest last Congress. Working 
together, we have had some remarkable achievements. We have 
passed 83 bills out of the House, and 36 of those became law, 
the second most of any House committee.
    Chief among these achievements is what we--is that we 
upheld our promise to take care of toxic exposed veterans, 
delivering long overdue benefits and care to over 3.5 million 
veterans.
    We made progress in addressing veteran suicide. We worked 
to improve veteran economic well-being by addressing the root 
causes of homelessness and enhanced the access to educational 
opportunities. We also began the overdue work to bring equity 
to underserved veteran populations.
    While we have much to be proud of, there is still much work 
to be done. I thank the members and committee staff who worked 
with me on these efforts and who made these accomplishments 
possible.
    The work to improve care and services for veterans will 
always be a constant, and the committee has also the important 
responsibility of overseeing the implementation of the laws 
that were enacted last Congress. One thing that underscores our 
work is that much of it is bipartisan.
    Certainly Chairman Bost and I have our policy 
disagreements, and I--but I believe that we and our staff have 
worked productively over the last 4 years, and I expect that 
spirit of cooperation of bipartisanship to continue this 
Congress.
    Chairman Bost and I have agreed to this budget request, and 
I believe it will allow us to continue our important work. Our 
mandate is to ensure that those who have worn the uniform of 
this country receive the benefits they are owed and to oversee 
the second largest department in the Federal Government. We do 
this work as one of the smallest standing committees of the 
House. If we want to meet that mandate, we have to have the 
funding to hire and retain excellent staff who understand the 
complexities of veterans' issues.
    We also need a budget which supports robust oversight 
travel so both staff and members get out into the field to 
assess all aspects of VA's operations, including more than 
1,200 sites of care spread across the United States, its 
territories, and the Philippines.
    I want to note that past practice in our committee has been 
the funding for salaries allocated according to the traditional 
two-thirds/one-third division. However, the rest of the funding 
has been drawn from both majority and minority staff, including 
for travel and equipment.
    We did not quibble over spending requests, and equipment 
and travel requests approved by the Republican staff director 
were approved by the Democratic staff director. I think we have 
operated from a place of mutual respect for each other and with 
the goal of ensuring staff that we have what they need to get 
the job done.
    The internal budgeting process has reflected this approach 
so far, and I thank Chairman Bost for continuing in that 
spirit.
    How Congress chooses to allocate funding should be 
demonstrative of our values. Our commitment must be to ensure 
that we continue to do more for veterans than say simply 
``Thank you for your service.'' Adequately funding our 
committee is an important part of that commitment.
    I thank you for your consideration of our work and this 
funding request. I am happy to answer any questions you may 
have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Takano follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Ranking Member.
    Each side will have 5 total minutes for questions.
    For purposes of the majority's time, I am going to yield to 
Mr. Griffith for purposes of asking questions.
    Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    In your budget request, you stated that you are requesting 
an increase in personnel compensation for the second session of 
the 118th Congress to retain up to 42 experienced employees in 
order to effectively oversee the VA, the second largest Federal 
agency.
    What challenges have you faced in recruiting and retaining 
staff with the expertise and knowledge that your committee 
needs to function effectively?
    Mr. Bost. Well, thank you, Mr. Griffith, for that excellent 
question. You know, experts in veterans policy can be hard to 
find, so we want to ensure that both sides have enough money to 
adequately compensate staff and retain them. That is the tough 
thing, is to be able to keep the competent staff that we have.
    Mr. Griffith. Also, last year, you spent over 100,000 on 
travel, and now you are requesting 150,000 for travel for both 
sessions of the 118th Congress. Is committee travel an 
essential part of your committee's oversight responsibilities?
    Mr. Bost. Yes, it is. We travel for general site visits. We 
also hold field hearings to get a true idea of what is 
happening on the ground. That is really our job to do that. We 
also need to use the budget to travel to VA facilities at the 
drop of a hat when things go wrong because, if you wait 5 
minutes, you think there is nothing going on; 5 minutes from 
now, it will have then happened. I also want to--I needed to 
anticipate the travel that is going to increase because we are 
now gone from COVID, and we need to get out to those locations.
    Mr. Griffith. Alright. Let me say, I do think that is 
important, Mr. Chairman, because, before redistricting, I had a 
veterans hospital in my district. Now it is a few miles outside 
of my district. When I go to visit, I always learn things and 
things that we probably ought to be doing here to make things 
better at the various hospitals.
    Mr. Bost. We have got to be in the field to make sure that 
things are being done right.
    Mr. Griffith. Yes, I appreciate that. Mr.----
    Mr. Bost. Thank you.
    Mr. Takano. Mr. Griffith, might I just add one thing?
    Mr. Griffith. Yes.
    Mr. Takano. Chairman Bost and I have both shared a concern 
over the electronic health records we have--and, you know, 
Chairman Roe, when Phil Roe was the chair, he established a 
special--we established a fifth subcommittee related to--we 
call it the Technology Modernization Committee. We need--
finding people who have that expertise in computer technology, 
in electronic health records, as you might imagine, trying to 
pay salaries that are competitive is difficult.
    This is, I think, a good example to share with you in terms 
of just the struggles and the challenges we face in that area.
    Mr. Griffith. I appreciate it.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back to you, and I assume 
we are going to reserve the rest of the time in case you have 
questions.
    The Chairman. Absolutely. Reserve the balance of the 
majority's time, and I will yield to the ranking member for the 
purpose of asking questions for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you to Chairman Bost and Ranking Member Takano. I 
note that Mrs. Torres and I were members of the Rules Committee 
in the last session, and the two of you appeared several times 
in front of us. Appreciate all the work that you did on behalf 
of our Nation's veterans, and I know there is a lot of work 
left to do. Appreciate you both being here.
    I want to just ask a question I will ask throughout the 
day, which is: Relative to the agreement you have struck, Mr. 
Chair, do you anticipate giving unrestricted access to the 
resources the minority has allocated to it?
    Mr. Bost. Yes. That has always been the bipartisan way that 
we have handled the committee in the past. It has always--we 
have always taken great pride in the fact that it is 
bipartisan. We know that the oversight and the things that we 
need to do, both our staff and their staff, whether minority or 
majority, needs to be in the field, needs to have the oversight 
that we have been assigned, so that we can do it in a way--it 
is really about the veterans and making sure that the services 
are being provided. It is not about whether--what letter is 
behind your name.
    Mr. Morelle. I appreciate it very much.
    Mr. Takano, are you confident that you will have access to 
the resources, or are you comfortable with that?
    Mr. Takano. I am comfortable. I am comfortable with that. 
My relationship with the chairman, I think, has been one of 
mutual respect. Certainly in the 4 years that I held the 
chairmanship, we have accorded every courtesy in terms of 
budget requests and travel requests from when Chairman Bost led 
the minority.
    I fully expect reciprocation. I don't have any indication 
otherwise, and we--I have great confidence that this 
relationship will continue.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good.
    I do note you have a pretty active hearing schedule, we had 
as one of the exhibits here. Appreciate that.
    I am not sure--I see a couple of Wisconsin hearings. I am 
sure that has nothing to do with the Chairman of our committee. 
If you find yourselves looking for another place, we would love 
to have you in Upstate New York as well.
    I would like to ask--I know that, in the last Congress, 
there was an effort that this committee helped put together 
across House officer teams for field hearings, established that 
the Sergeant of Arms coordinate with Capitol Police, and there 
is a series of agencies that come together and help facilitate.
    Will you utilize that process? Are you aware of it, and 
will you utilize it?
    Mr. Bost. We will--it is the same process by which we have 
done before, and, you know, we have got to make sure, when we 
have our hearings, they are secure.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes.
    Mr. Bost. That is just a natural act, no matter what group 
is there. We hope that there are not people that would do us 
harm while we are out, but we always want to make sure that 
security is done.
    Mr. Morelle. I think it also uses the Clerk's Office for--
to make sure that there are court reporters, broadcasting----
    Mr. Bost. That is correct.
    Mr. Morelle [continuing]. live-streaming, et cetera. I 
would certainly be happy to know that you are using that 
system. I think it costs--it helps us keep costs down and helps 
make sure that they flow in a thoughtful way.
    Thank you for that. Appreciate you both being here. 
Appreciate the agreement, and appreciate your good work.
    I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields 
back.
    Appreciate both of your guys' testimony here today, 
Chairman Bost and Ranking Member Takano. We appreciate that you 
are coming to Wisconsin, both to the Tomah facility, which has 
had challenges, so it is good that you are coming back there, 
but as well as your visit to Milwaukee.
    Appreciate the work you do in what is one of the most 
important committees in this House, to make sure that the men 
and women who have worn the United States military uniform have 
the resources, benefits that they earned while serving our 
country.
    With no further questions from either side, we thank you 
for your testimony today.
    Mr. Bost. Thank you, Chairman.
    The Chairman. Have a good afternoon.
    Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, we appreciate 
you being here today as we continue our commitment to regular 
order and accountability to the American taxpayers.
    For purposes of the hearing today, we are going to do 5 
minutes from both the Chair and the Ranking Member, and then 5 
minutes of questions total from each side of the dais.
    I will now recognize Chairman Westerman for the purposes of 
an opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

    Mr. Westerman. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, 
thank you. Members of the committee, thank you for this 
opportunity to present the Committee on Natural Resources' 
budget request for the 118th Congress.
    I do recognize the challenging task that you have in 
allocating resources among committees and appreciate the 
opportunity to make the case for the Natural Resources 
Committee.
    First off, I want to talk about--about the committee, 
because I think there is--it is one of the most underknown or 
underappreciated committees in Congress. Our committee turns 
out a lot of work. We have got five subcommittees with 
jurisdiction over American energy and minerals, over insular 
and Tribal affairs, Federal lands and waters, wildlife and 
fisheries, as well as oversight of the Department of Interior 
and certain agencies within the Department of Commerce and 
Agriculture.
    We are one of the busiest committees in the House. During 
the 117th Congress, we were first among all standing committees 
with 124 bills reported. We had a total of 109 hearings, 21 
full committee markups. We also took our work to 46 different 
destinations across the U.S. and its territories. Yet, while we 
are at the top of the list for legislative activity and 
jurisdiction, spanning literally from the Arctic Circle to the 
Mariana Trench. We fall to number 11 amongst committees when it 
comes to funding levels.
    We are requesting a budget increase this year of roughly 9 
percent, and that is based on authorized level for 2022. What 
this increase will do will allow the committee to attract and 
retain talented staff to address our broad and unique 
jurisdiction, to fund robust--and a robust travel and field 
hearings agenda, oversight and educational site visits, and 
resign and modernize our communications platform, including our 
website.
    A top priority of the Natural Resources Committee in this 
Congress is to bring Congress to the people. When you think 
about the issues involving natural resources, this is something 
you really need to get outside the beltway with. We have 
already had a field hearing and a site--a field hearing in 
Odessa, Texas, and a site visit to New Mexico. we are planning 
to hold at least 10 to 15 more field hearings in each session 
of the 118th Congress.
    This is the area where we need increased funding to achieve 
these goals. This is also a year that the compacts in the South 
Pacific, which fall under the jurisdiction of our committee, 
are being renewed, and we need to spend some time at our 
territories in the South Pacific and down in those freely 
associated States.
    What we are asking for is a larger travel budget and a 
slight increase to be able to attract and retain high-quality 
staff members.
    You know, with that, I hope that you will have a favorable 
consideration, and I hope--I believe Ranking Member Grijalva 
can verify the work that we are trying to do.
    I will yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Westerman follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman Westerman.
    Ranking Member Grijalva is recognized for 5 minutes.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. RAUL GRIJALVA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
               CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and also thank the 
Ranking Member for the opportunity. I am pleased to be here 
with Chairman Westerman to ask for your support for the Natural 
Resources Committee budget for the 118th----
    The Chairman. Will the Ranking Member yield? Is your 
microphone on? I can hear you clearly, but I know our live feed 
may not.
    Mr. Grijalva. Is it on now? Shall I start over, or no?
    The Chairman. Please continue.
    Mr. Grijalva. Thank you.
    As the chairman mentioned, it is difficult to overstate the 
importance of the work of our committee. Our jurisdiction 
includes vital issues that go to the heart of so many of 
people's lives in this country. We oversee our people's public 
lands and waters, including conservation, recreation, and 
development, that multi-use mission of the committee. We are 
stewards of the very sovereignty of the Tribal Nations that we 
have and have been since before the Constitution.
    We have the responsibility of promoting self-determination 
and the well-being of U.S. territory and freely associated 
States. Those are important responsibilities, huge 
responsibilities of the committee that we collectively take 
very seriously. We are at the center of Federal efforts toward 
environmental justice, and we are a vital--and that concept has 
been made a vital component of any response to the climate 
crisis.
    Our committee oversees our national parks, wildlife 
refuges, fisheries, and other water resources in places of 
severe drought. We conduct oversight of the Endangered Species 
Act, the National Environmental Policy Act, and an array of 
other bedrock statutes.
    Over the last Congress, as the Chairman indicated, the 
committee and its staff were extremely productive. In the 
117th, we had about 893 measures referred to us, held 141 
official meetings, 21 full committee meetings, and filed 142 
committee reports. Our friends at Energy and Commerce were 
second with 79 reports, a little less than half of what we 
produced.
    All told, our committee has passed scores of bills out of 
the House, and 149 passed Senate and became law--149.
    In the recent Congress, we have consistently punched above 
our weight. Although Chairman Westerman and I have a degree of 
policy difference, to say the least, and we feel quite strongly 
in our positions and our philosophies toward that multiuse 
concept in our jurisdiction, we do agree on the importance of 
our shared work and that sustaining this level and the quality 
of activity requires a full roster of majority, minority, and 
nonpartisan staff.
    We want to attract and keep the best, and these skilled and 
dedicated public servants are needed now more than ever, and 
the resources help us retain and also bring into our personnel 
and into our professional ranks really, really good people that 
will serve the American people.
    I know that Chairman Westerman understands the importance 
of the resources for the minority. Having recently him being 
the Ranking Member in the previous Congress, we hope that the 
courtesies that we extended to each other as we move forward--
there was a point in which the minority needed additional 
resources that we, as the majority, were glad to provide 
because we understand that this is a shared responsibility we 
have, and we will be bugging the Chairman to return the 
courtesy at some point, but that--your allocation to us will go 
a long way to the discussion.
    Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Grijalva follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. I thank the Ranking Member.
    The majority and minority will each now have 5 total 
minutes to ask questions.
    I will now yield to Mr. Carey for purpose of asking 
questions for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Westerman and Ranking Member Grijalva, really 
appreciate your testimony today.
    Also, I know, Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that this is one 
of those committees that a lot of people don't watch. I will 
tell you I spent 25 years watching the committee, sometimes 
with seeing the good things you did and sometimes not so good.
    One of the things that you mentioned in your questionnaire 
was that of field hearings and onsite educational opportunities 
and increased oversight visits are among some of your highest 
priorities.
    I would agree with that because I think it is very 
difficult for you doing what you are doing. When you are 
looking at critical minerals, when you are looking at our 
energy deposits, it really is important to be on the ground.
    What additional resources does your committee need in order 
to perform these important oversight functions?
    Mr. Westerman. That is a great question. I appreciate that.
    You know, first off, you need staff. You can't--to plan 
these hearings takes a lot of logistics and a lot of effort, so 
we need staff to be able to do all of the planning and to make 
the field hearings worthwhile.
    When we did the Odessa field hearing, we were able to take 
folks from the recording studio down there, which gave the 
hearing a much higher quality presentation.
    We also need the funding to do that. It kind of comes down 
to quality--the quality staff and funding, and those two also 
go hand-in-hand.
    Mr. Carey. I thank you for that, and I would agree with 
that.
    The other thing--and, Mr. Chairman, I think you were the 
one that mentioned--in your budget request, you mentioned that 
the Committee on House Administration's recent ``Running an 
Effective committee in the Majority'' series and new 
professional development programs offered by the CAO have been 
beneficial to your committee staff.
    What additional training would you like the committee or 
the COA to provide--or CAO to provide?
    Mr. Westerman. Yes, we have had staff take advantage of the 
CAO training, and I think that is very important when we 
don't--not only want to take quality staff in; we want to be 
able to develop those staff to even higher quality.
    The programs that CAO offered gives our staff the 
opportunity to do that, and I do appreciate the committee's 
emphasis on that and can say thank you from our committee for 
the opportunities for our staff to have professional 
development.
    Mr. Carey. Last question, and the Chairman, what are the 
challenges that you foresee for your committee during this 
118th Congress?
    Mr. Westerman. It is always a challenge when you are 
dealing with the issues that we are talking about inside a 
building here in D.C. to see the real effect that is happening 
out in the real world, and we are talking about mining. We are 
talking about oil and gas extraction. We are talking about 
fishing. We are talking about Tribal issues and forestry, and 
nothing takes the place of being out in the field, seeing what 
happens in real life.
    I know, as a forester, you can talk about it all you want 
in a room, but, when you are standing out in the forest and you 
are looking at poor management or good management, it will make 
the light bulb come on. It is a challenge for us on the 
educational side to make sure that we are making policy based 
on the best science and data and facts. The way to do that is 
to get out in the field and talk to people who are facing the 
issues every day.
    Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your 
comments and wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments.
    I yield back, Mr. Chairman
    The Chairman. Thank you very much. We reserve the balance 
of our time.
    I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to you, Mr. 
Chairman; you, Mr. Ranking Member, for all of your hard work 
and your stewardship of the committee.
    Since you were talking about field hearings, I want to just 
get a sense--I asked this of the previous Chair and Ranking 
Member when they came in--within the last Congress, there was a 
system developed that coordinates Sergeant at Arms, Capitol 
Police, the Clerk's Office for purpose of court reporters, the 
Chief Administrative Officer around broadcasting and live-
streaming, et cetera.
    Do you intend to use that system that has been developed to 
conduct your field hearings?
    Mr. Westerman. We do intend to use that like we did on the 
first field hearing that we did.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good. Just so I can be assured of this, I 
know--I appreciate the fact that you two have agreed on budget 
and distribution of resources.
    Mr. Chairman, do you expect that you will give unrestricted 
access to the resources that the minority has coming to them?
    Mr. Westerman. Yes. We have--tradition has been we divide 
the resources up two-thirds and one-third, and that is the plan 
to do that going forward.
    Mr. Morelle. Great, and so you commit to making sure that 
they have access to the resources that you have allocated for 
them?
    Mr. Westerman. Correct.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes. Mr. Ranking Member, are you confident 
that you will have access to the resources you need within the 
allocation?
    Mr. Grijalva. Yes. Yes, I do. I don't have a question about 
that. In my time on this committee, that has been a--if not a 
policy, a tradition that has happened without question, and I 
have full confidence that is going to occur.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good.
    I will yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I appreciate both of you being here with us today. It is 
our commitment to openness, to regular order, and to 
transparency. I appreciate your committee's commitment to a 
robust oversight agenda this Congress.
    Thank you for being with us today.
    Mr. Westerman. Thank you. Now we will go back to a hearing.
    The Chairman. We are going to continue with our hearing.
    I thank Chairman Arrington and Ranking Member Boyle for 
being with us today.
    Today is our continuation of being open and transparent to 
the American people and returning the House to regular order.
    We appreciate you being here.
    We are going to recognize both the Chairman and the Ranking 
Member for 5 minutes for the purpose of opening statements, 
followed by 5 total minutes of questions from both the minority 
and the majority before us.
    Chairman Arrington is now recognized for the purpose of 
making an opening statement.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. JODEY C. ARRINGTON, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM 
                       THE STATE OF TEXAS

    Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member 
Morelle. Appreciate y'all's leadership.
    We have to run our House responsibly, like every 
hardworking American. We talk a lot about getting our fiscal 
house in order. I appreciate that House operations go beyond 
just the resources and making sure that we are doing the right 
things the right way with the American people's resources. I 
appreciate the job that you all do to endeavor to that goal.
    I want to start by saying, Brendan Boyle is my Ranking 
Member, a friend and a colleague from our time on Ways and 
Means. We will have differences of opinion, sometimes wildly 
different. We will debate in a very robust way and hopefully a 
very thoughtful way. I am very excited about serving alongside 
of my Democrat colleague.
    Next I would like to address the issue at hand directly in 
terms of resources for our Budget Committee operations.
    I contend that the Budget Committee is an A committee 
because there is not a bigger problem to solve, there is not a 
greater challenge that we face as a Nation than our runaway 
spending, most of which is on auto-spend on the mandatory side, 
and this unsustainable fiscal path that our country is on. If 
we don't intervene, I think the outcome will be disastrous--and 
possibility irreparable--if it is a sovereign debt crisis.
    Whether it is a sovereign debt crisis or this slow economic 
demise of the greatest country and greatest economy in the 
world, we lose our influence in the world as a result, our 
ability to defend our homeland, our ability to provide security 
for our seniors, and the list goes on of laudable and righteous 
things that we do as a Nation for our fellow citizens. That all 
can be undone and undermined if we don't get our fiscal house 
in order.
    I would also say that Republicans have contributed their 
fair share to this irresponsible fiscal State of the Union. 
While I am definitely going to beat up on my Democrat 
colleagues and this President for the 5 trillion in additional 
deficit spending in just the last 2 years, I recognize that 
fiscal irresponsibility is not unique to one party or the 
other. If we see it any differently, we will never work 
together to solve this problem.
    The fact is that is the truth, but it is also the only way 
to get everybody in the boat and rowing, as I said earlier, 
away from the waterfall, the Niagara Falls of the fiscal cliff 
that we are heading to rapidly.
    To me, we have got a lot of good things that we can do for 
our country, a lot of very difficult decisions to make. All the 
easy decisions, Mr. Ranking Member, I think have been made, if 
there were any. We now have the tough decisions to make, and we 
need the best team and the best operation.
    We need to lead by example. My recommendation is that we 
don't increase our budget. I may come back next year and we may 
decrease it because we are going to have to cut spending, we 
are going to have to grow the economy, and we are going have to 
deal with the real debt drivers.
    I don't know how in the world--first principle of 
leadership, Mr. Boyle, where I come from in Texas, I bet your 
people in Pennsylvania feel the same way--first principle is 
you lead by example.
    We are in 2023 now, so let's just keep the 2023 budget at 
2022 levels. Let's keep the split the way it is. I think we are 
as generous to the minority as any committee, if not the most 
generous. That was tradition, not just our proposal.
    Let's try to make do with the moneys we have committed, and 
maybe we come back and look for ways to reduce that and 
continue on our great mission here to save the country from a 
debt crisis.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Ranking Member, for the 
opportunity. With that, I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Arrington follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. The Ranking Member is recognized.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRENDAN F. BOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
            CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

    Mr. Boyle. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking 
Member, as well as to the members of this committee.
    Let me first thank Chairman Arrington, my friend Jodey, for 
his leadership in developing our committee budget. I am proud 
to say that on this budget we agree. That might not extend to 
another budget that we will be debating, but on this budget we 
happen to agree.
    First, let me just point out to my Republican friends, you 
could not have made a better choice when it comes to your 
choice for Chair of the committee, a bright, hardworking, 
patriotic member of Congress, and I am proud to call him a 
friend.
    We will have good, principled, hopefully insightful 
debates. Then, ideally, we will arrive at the right decision, 
and hopefully in the end the American people will be better off 
for it. In the end, I know in his heart that is what he wants 
for our country, and that is what I want as well.
    In terms of the specifics for our budget on the Budget 
Committee, the majority will make one-third of the funding and 
resources available to the minority for personnel. That is 
exactly consistent with past practice. Also consistent with the 
past, the majority budget will continue to cover equipment for 
both staffs, ensuring the same quality and access for both 
majority and minority.
    We are in full agreement on a flat budget for this year. I 
happen to wish the committee had more funds to execute its 
responsibilities. With that said, I agree with the chairman 
that the funds that are being provided here will be sufficient.
    I have been fortunate enough, despite the fact that going 
from majority to minority obviously our side is taking the bulk 
of the hit, nonetheless we have been able to retain the 
entirety of the minority staff, with one unfortunate exception.
    I also want to credit my predecessor, Chairman Yarmuth, who 
strategically did not fill positions when they were becoming 
open and we had personnel who were retiring in order to be 
prepared in case we were to be in the minority. That advanced 
planning made this process a great deal easier.
    While I am thinking of it, I know Jodey would share in 
this, I want to thank Gary and Greg behind me, Gary Andres and 
Greg Waring, the Republican and Democratic staff directors, 
respectfully, who have done a wonderful job to date.
    I want to reiterate what an honor and privilege it is to 
serve as Ranking Member of the Budget Committee. I am hopeful 
that, despite our honest and principled policy differences, the 
Chairman and I will be able to find common ground on more than 
just our committee budget.
    With that, I will do something all too rare in this House, 
yield back the remainder of my time.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Boyle follows:]
   
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    The Chairman. We appreciate that. Also rare to see a budget 
request come in with a zero percent increase. We appreciate 
that as well.
    Chairman Arrington, you and I have had a chance to talk 
previously about kind of the broken budget process reform. You 
come in with a zero percent increase.
    One of the priorities that you set forward is really 
looking back at the budget process, coming forward with 
nonpartisan legislation as it relates to fixing the underlying 
process that continues to allow this institution to not get its 
job done.
    Do you think you have the resources you need to move 
forward with, I think, that really important priority under the 
budget you set forward today?
    Mr. Arrington. I think fixing the broken process, because 
fundamentally having systemic problems with the institution, or 
i.e., broken process, is very difficult to yield anything but 
broken outcomes.
    I am a big proponent of bipartisan process reforms. We 
started a group--we call it a caucus, it is actually not an 
official caucus--where we had at one time 30 Democrats and 30 
Republicans, Mr. Morelle, who looked at soup to nuts why and 
where this process breaks down so often, and we end up with a 
Four Corners massive spending bill that nobody feels good about 
in the end. I suspect Democrats don't feel any better than 
Republicans. Even if your pet projects on either side are 
buried in this spending, it is just not good business.
    I don't know another government in the world--we will look 
together at how other governments run--but I don't know a 
government in the world that has such a dysfunctional process.
    From the most benign sort of biennial budgets 
consideration, to fiscal State of the union in a bipartisan, 
bicameral way, to really shine a light for the American people 
on the math, not the different ways of fixing it from my view 
or my colleague's view, but just the mathematic reality, and 
some of the reality of the broken process, to debt targets, 
debt-to-GDP.
    I know Sheldon Whitehouse, who is chairing the Budget 
Committee in the Senate, is big on the debt-to-GDP targets with 
a glide slope down. I love that idea.
    I think there is a long list of things that we could 
propose. Scott Peters and I from San Diego, Democrat, 
introduced the Responsible Budget Act that would actually 
replace the debt ceiling with real debate over real reforms.
    I guess the bottom line is the American people see a lot of 
the conflict and contentiousness. What they may not see enough 
of, unfortunately, if they are watching cable news, is that we 
have a lot of common ground and consensus around making this 
process work better.
    Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, I am totally committed. 
We are going to get through our budget resolution process early 
on and through this debt ceiling negotiation.
    Once we get further out into the open, it is going to be a 
great and satisfying endeavor to go with Brendan Boyle and my 
Democrat colleagues into the process and make those fundamental 
reforms.
    The Chairman. Appreciate it. It is an issue I think that I 
would love to see legislation come out this Congress to really 
fix the broken underlying process.
    One quick follow up in the minute that we have left is, we 
look at your oversight role, both over the Congressional Budget 
Office, but over Federal spending writ large and the Federal 
budget writ large, do you think you have the resources on the 
oversight side? The oversight piece is going to be a huge, 
important piece this Congress.
    Mr. Arrington. I see the House Budget Committee's 
responsibilities much more broadly I think than some. It is not 
just a budget resolution. To me, we are the budget 
accountability committee. We should look at the spending, the 
consequences of inflation and high interest rates. We should 
look at economic growth.
    One percent of GDP growth over a 10-year horizon is $3 
trillion. We shouldn't accept that it is just 1.7 or 1.8 or 
whatever the CBO is projecting. We have done better. We can do 
better.
    I have a broader view of pro-growth, pro-work, pro-energy 
policies that will help this country grow again so we can do 
what they did in World War II or after, which is bend the 
spending but grow the economy, and get us back to that solid 
footing.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you very much.
    Thank you to you, Mr. Chairman, and to the Ranking Member. 
I have great confidence that, having spent the last 4 years as 
a member of the Budget Committee, I really appreciate your 
devotion to task.
    I will just note parenthetically, too, you used Niagara 
Falls in your analogy, I wouldn't entirely necessarily embrace 
the analogy, but do appreciate an Upstate New York reference. 
You are welcome to come to Niagara Falls any time and we would 
be happy to host you.
    I would love to work with you both on making certain that 
our country's fiscal health is in order and provides growth and 
opportunity for not only this generation, for a generation of 
Americans to come. I look forward to that.
    As the chairman said, our responsibility here is to look at 
the agreement you have reached, and appreciate the fact that 
you have reached an agreement and the two of you are in 
accordance on the distribution of resources.
    I just want to ask you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the fact 
that you made the distribution. I am asking each of the Chair 
just for the record, want to make sure that you are comfortable 
with and will allow unrestricted access to Ranking Member Boyle 
for his portion and allocation in the budget over the next 
year.
    Mr. Arrington. Well, we are committed to that. If it is not 
on paper, we will put it on paper. He has my word. I want him 
to feel good about it. The conflicts shouldn't be resources 
between our colleagues, it should be on ideas that are debated. 
I am committed to that.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, I appreciate that and I am happy to take 
your word for it. I don't think we need to put it in writing. 
But I do appreciate that.
    To the Ranking Member, who is a longtime friend and 
somebody I have enormous confidence in, are you comfortable 
with the arrangement and feel as though you have the resources 
within the agreement you reached to be able to do what you need 
to do?
    Mr. Boyle. Yes. Two things on that.
    First, I absolutely take Jodey's word for it and appreciate 
his pledge on that.
    Second, I would say, I mean, let's be candid, we are no 
longer in a period in which either political party has a 
permanent majority in this Chamber. I have served in the 
minority, the majority, the minority. The House is probably 50-
50 up for grabs facing next election. I think it serves both 
sides well to be fair to one another when it comes to these 
sorts of things because today's majority will at some point be 
tomorrow's minority, and then the day after that will be the 
majority again. That is just the reality that we are in.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, I appreciate it. I actually appreciate 
very much--I know we are going to have--we have had several 
folks come in prior to this and we will have many more to come. 
I really appreciate the sincerity which I think you both 
exhibit and demonstrate, and your willingness to work together. 
We are not going to always agree on policy, but I certainly 
appreciate agreement on civility and conducting ourselves in 
ways that the American public would be proud of.
    Thank you for being here. I yield back.
    The Chairman. I appreciate the Chairman and the Ranking 
Member's time today, part of our commitment to regular order 
and restoring accountability in today's government. Thank you 
very much.
    I thank the Chair and the Ranking Member for coming in 
today. Today's hearing is all part of our commitment to, one, 
restoring regular order here in the people's House, but also 
transparency and accountability to the American people.
    We are going to recognize both the Chair and the Ranking 
Member for 5 minutes for purposes of opening statements. Then, 
the majority and the minority will have a total of 5 minutes to 
ask questions in follow-up.
    I will now recognize Chairman Tom Cole for the purpose of 
an opening statement.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. TOM COLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

    Mr. Cole. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Chairman 
Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, old friends, like my friend Mrs. 
Torres. This is a great committee. It is a pleasure to be here.
    Thank you for inviting me to testify on the budget request 
for the Committee on Rules for the 118th Congress. I appreciate 
the thoughtful and deliberate work you do to ensure that the 
committees have the resources they need to fulfill our 
constitutional mandate.
    Along with my partner and very good friend on the 
committee, Ranking Member Jim McGovern, I respectfully request 
level funding for the 118th Congress to carry out our 
institutional responsibilities on behalf of the American 
people.
    As my colleagues who previously served on the Rules 
Committee, Ranking Member Morelle and Mrs. Torres, are well 
aware, on our committee we have no margin for error or delay. 
We have no ability to turn down work in response to 
insufficient resources. We have no ability to calibrate our 
workload based on available funds.
    When the House is considering legislation, the Rules 
Committee must be open for business. Preparing legislation for 
the floor comes with high fixed costs, costs that don't 
disappear when the resources get tight.
    Many other committees may have weeks or months to prepare 
their work product. However, the Rules Committee's agenda is 
measured in days, hours, and minutes.
    As a result of the committee's essential and unique role, 
we invest heavily in a custom automated workflow system, one 
that allows us to process thousands of amendments in a matter 
of days.
    In the 117th Congress, the committee processed over 8,500 
amendment submissions, an increase of 14 percent over the 
previous Congress. We expect to exceed that number perhaps by a 
significant amount in this Congress.
    We are encouraged by the level of member and staff 
engagement in the legislative process so far this Congress and 
look forward to partnering with committees to move exceptional 
work product to the House floor in a deliberative process 
whereby all voices can be heard.
    While the Committee on Rules is a standing committee, its 
function is different than any other. Without the Committee on 
Rules operating at peak efficiency, the entire institution 
suffers.
    Our committee's responsibility is the timely delivery of 
business to the floor, maintaining the Republican Conference's 
commitment to transparency and openness in the legislative 
process and the fair and efficient handling of member requests.
    Due to the previous investments that your committee has 
allowed us to make, both in staff and technology, we believe we 
can rise to the challenges and opportunities that we will 
certainly confront in the next 2 years without an increase in 
funding.
    As such, our budget request for the 118th Congress is a 
flat funding request of $8,335,614, equally divided between 
each session.
    Thanks for your consideration of our request. I am prepared 
to answer any questions you may have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Cole follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you, Chairman Cole.
    Ranking Member McGovern, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES P. MCGOVERN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
            CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

    Mr. McGovern. Well, thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking 
Member Morelle and the members of the Committee on House 
Administration. I am pleased to be joining my good friend, 
Chairman Cole, in presenting our request for funding for the 
Committee on Rules for the 118th Congress.
    Our committee, as Mr. Cole has pointed out, is unique. Our 
primary mission is not to write laws, nor conduct direct 
oversight, but rather to facilitate the work of all House 
committees and of the House itself. That means we don't 
typically hire experts on one specific policy. Our staff tracks 
every policy question that comes to the House floor and are 
seasoned experts on House procedures and precedents.
    As Ranking Member Morelle and Congresswoman Torres know 
from personal experience, our work does not run on a schedule 
limited by business hours. We know late nights better than 
anyone else in these Halls.
    Further, our workload has only grown in recent years. For 
example, as recently as the 114th Congress, our committee 
received under 4,000 amendment submissions for our 
consideration. Last Congress, we received over 8,500 
submissions.
    We take the responsibility of keeping this institution 
functioning very seriously, and I believe that we have 
succeeded in being a resource for all members and staff serving 
here.
    A big part of that success has been our ability to hire and 
retain our extraordinary staff on both sides of the aisle--and 
let me emphasize the word ``extraordinary.'' We have also 
succeeded by keeping our disagreements where they belong--on 
matters of substance.
    When it comes to the logistics of running the committee and 
working within the budget allocated to us, I could not ask for 
a better partner than my good friend from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole. 
Over the last two Congresses, we worked closely as Chair and 
Ranking Member, and I look forward to continuing that 
relationship with our roles reversed--although I liked the 
arrangement previously better, but anyway.
    I am also grateful that Chairman Cole is continuing our 
committee's long tradition of providing the minority full 
control over one-third of the overall budget. I support the 
request of this committee from my Chairman that we be provided 
the same amount of funding for each of the next 2 years as we 
were provided for the last year.
    These funds will allow us to continue supporting this 
institution, from its leadership to its committees to the 
staffs of every member office.
    I thank you for your time and your attention, and I am 
happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. McGovern follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank both very much.
    The majority and the minority will now have a total of 5 
minutes to ask the witnesses questions.
    The majority will now yield to Mr. Murphy for the purpose 
of asking questions for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, gentlemen, for coming today. I am just going to 
try to make this brief.
    You guys are asking essentially for a 10 percent increase 
over last time. This is part of the committee process. Is that 
bad math?
    Mr. Cole. Yes. Our request is a flat budget.
    Mr. Murphy. Flat budget for 2023, 2024. Then how can that 
be 10 percent over what was done in the 117th? Can somebody 
help with that?
    Mr. McGovern. Yes. I think we got a midsession increase in 
the 117th Congress. We are simply asking for a flat level as we 
go forward.
    Mr. Murphy. A flat level from the increase last time?
    Mr. McGovern. Yes.
    Mr. Cole. That did not come at the beginning.
    Mr. Murphy. Okay, so my question is just because we are 
trying to save money and all this other stuff.
    Last time you in the majority spent 83 percent of your 
funds, correct, is what I am seeing here?
    Mr. McGovern. Correct.
    Mr. Murphy. The minority spent 100 percent.
    To what do you owe the increased need? What is going to be 
the increased need for this----
    Mr. McGovern. We are asking for the same amount as last 
year.
    Mr. Murphy. Alright. Well, I am looking at a different 
number then. So----
    Mr. Cole. It was provided in 2022? So----
    Mr. Murphy. I am looking at 7.5 million last time and 8.3 
million this time. Is that correct? Am I just looking at the 
wrong numbers? I am not arguing with you.
    Mr. Cole. No. No.
    Mr. Murphy. I just wanted to know what the difference is 
going to be. What new adjustments are there?
    Mr. Cole. There was a new committee funding resolution that 
was done in 2022. That was the budget we operated off in 2022. 
We are not asking for an increase for 2023 and 2024.
    Mr. Murphy. Alright. Got it. Got it. Got it.
    Mr. Cole. Yes.
    Mr. Murphy. I don't have any issues. I think Rules, I think 
y'all run pretty lean and mean. You are not planning on having 
any field hearings in Alaska or anything like this. That is 
correct?
    Mr. Cole. That is correct.
    Mr. Murphy. Alright.
    Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really don't have any 
considerations. I will yield back.
    The Chairman. I reserve the balance of my time.
    I will now recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Chairman Cole, Ranking Member McGovern, for 
being here.
    I find myself in a rare disagreement with the Chair and 
Ranking Member. I was prepared to support a doubling of their 
allocation. Apparently they have asked for less than that.
    I will admit, and I think Mrs. Torres would agree with me, 
that it is hard to imagine the amount of time and energy that 
the Rules Committee members put into this endeavor, all hours 
of day and night, often with less, perhaps, notice than we 
would like, and many hours sometimes waiting around for the 
committee to get going because we are just waiting on other 
things to happen here in the House. The staff is remarkable on 
both sides. Appreciate all of their work.
    One of the only downsides to being on--the ranker on this 
committee is not serving on the Rules Committee any longer.
    I really do appreciate the work that they do. They do it, 
both sides, with great civility, have worked incredibly hard to 
advance the interests of the American public. I know it sounds 
like an advertisement for the committee, but I am really 
grateful to you.
    One question I have asked of each of the Chairs and Ranking 
Members--and I very much appreciate the fact that you have 
agreed on the allocation. Mr. Chairman, can you commit to just 
making sure that the minority has unrestricted access to their 
portion of the allocation that is given to the committee?
    Mr. Cole. Absolutely. We certainly got that courtesy from 
then Chairman McGovern when I was there. We have tried to 
extend that back. We think that is important.
    Honestly, we do have a terrific working relationship 
between the two staffs, as my friend knows, and they are candid 
with one another. They share back and forth with one another. 
They understand how difficult these jobs are and, honestly, I 
think have worked together extraordinarily well to facilitate 
things.
    You know and Mrs. Torres knows as former members, we deal 
with some really controversial items. There is not a break. We 
are doing it every single week that we are in session.
    I am really proud of the example my friend, the Ranking 
Member, set as Chairman in terms of maintaining--and my 
colleagues who are up on the dais--maintaining the really 
collegial and cooperative relationship between the two sides.
    You have my firm commitment that my friend, the ranking 
member, has complete control over his one-third of the total 
allocation.
    Mr. Morelle. I appreciate that.
    Anything further you would like to add, Mr. McGovern?
    Mr. McGovern. I agree with him.
    Mr. Morelle. Wow. I appreciate that.
    Mr. Cole. I wish I heard that more in my own committee.
    Mr. Morelle. I would like to reserve just a moment or two 
and yield to my friend, Mrs. Torres.
    Mrs. Torres. I just want to thank you both for coming to 
our committee, our new committee assignment here, and to say 
that, while I agree 100 percent with your budget, I am just 
very concerned about the staff time, the long hours that it 
seems to just continue to grow every year, the time that they 
spend working at the Capitol dealing with amendments and the 
late hours.
    I don't know how to improve that, but I will leave that to 
both of you to figure out how to improve those working 
conditions for the staff.
    Thank you. Yield back.
    Mr. Morelle. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
    Thank you both for being here and for all the great work 
you do.
    The Chairman. Briefly, in the time that the majority has 
left, I just wanted to follow up with one question if I can 
with you, Chairman Cole.
    One of the things that this committee has been looking at 
is kind of software solutions and whether or not there are any 
enterprise solutions. I know your committee has worked with a 
program called Core, I am not sure how familiar you are with 
this, in Dropbox. I know you have a significant number of 
documents that come in, often late at night.
    Curious. Your request includes $250,000 to make necessary 
updates and adjustments to the Core software. Could you just 
comment briefly as to the essential purpose of this software 
just so we get an understanding as we think through potential 
enterprise solutions?
    Mr. Cole. Asking me for anything technological is 
probably--you have immediately moved me beyond my competence.
    I will say this, it is just the sheer volume of work and 
the speed at which technology has changed that we have to be 
constantly able to adapt. Again, we are not asking for more 
money in the overall budget.
    The Chairman. Right.
    Mr. Cole. We are just actually making efficiencies within 
our own budget and redirecting resources there so we can stay 
on top of the flow of paper.
    The amendment requests are staggering. We don't expect that 
to slow down. We are happy. Look, that just means members are 
engaged, and they have got ideas, and they are bringing them 
forward on both sides. We are going to try to facilitate as 
much as we possibly can.
    It does require to keep things moving, really top level 
technology that changes on a regular basis. We can't get 
ourselves ever into a situation where we are relying on 
technology that is 10 years old. That happens a lot in the 
Federal Government--or 20, or 30 years old. We have seen that 
before. We just simply won't be able to keep track of the paper 
and deliver the product in a way that allows the House to move 
in a timely fashion.
    We figure we are the last stop before something goes to the 
floor. It needs to move at the pace that the body wants it to 
move at and make sure that we don't keep members sitting around 
waiting because we can't produce the work product quickly 
enough.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much for that insight. We are 
always looking at ways to find enterprise solutions here in the 
House to improve efficiencies across all our committees.
    I appreciate both of your testimony here today. I 
appreciate your openness to participate in our commitment to 
regular order and accountability.
    Thank you very much. Have a wonderful day.
    Mr. McGovern. Thank you.
    The Chairman. Chairman Jordan, Ranking Member Nadler, thank 
you for coming to testify today before our hearing. This is our 
commitment to restoring regular order to the people's House and 
to improving accountability and transparency to the American 
people.
    We will recognize each of you for 5 minutes for the purpose 
of an opening statement. The majority and minority will have a 
total of 5 minutes to ask questions.
    I will now recognize Chairman Jim Jordan for the purpose of 
an opening statement.

  STATEMENT OF THE HON. JIM JORDAN, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE 
                         STATE OF OHIO

    Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, thank you for the 
invitation to testify today.
    The Judiciary Committee has an important mission: 
protecting the fundamental civil liberties of American 
citizens.
    We have all seen what has happened over the past several 
years. We have seen the First Amendment under attack from big 
tech and big government. Just read the Twitter Files. We have 
seen how the Justice Department and the FBI abuse their law 
enforcement authorities. We have seen how the open border 
policies of this administration have led to crime, drained 
local resources, and allowed drugs to flow into our country.
    These are important and serious issues. They are the things 
the Judiciary Committee must examine. We expect to have an 
aggressive legislative and oversight agenda this Congress.
    In addition, the House has created a new select 
subcommittee within the Judiciary Committee on the 
weaponization of the Federal Government.
    To meet our immediate needs, we are respectfully asking for 
your consideration of a $2 million annual increase to our 
budget. In addition, we respectfully ask for access to up to 15 
million for the reserve fund to meet additional needs of the 
committee and the select subcommittee as necessary.
    We have structured the request in this manner so that we 
have the resources we need, but to ensure we are also careful 
stewards of taxpayer dollars.
    Thank you for your consideration of our request. I am happy 
to answer your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Jordan follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Ranking Member Nadler, you are now recognized for 5 
minutes.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. JERROLD NADLER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

    Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member 
Morelle, and members of the committee, I am pleased to appear 
before you today to discuss the House Judiciary Committee's 
funding request for the 118th Congress.
    The House Judiciary Committee has historically been one of 
the most active committees in the House. Our wide jurisdiction, 
ranging from antitrust, immigration, and constitutional law, to 
issues relating to criminal justice, civil rights, and the 
courts, places us at the forefront of many of the most pressing 
issues facing our country today.
    In fact, last Congress, nearly 2,000 legislative measures 
were referred to the committee, representing more than 16 
percent of all bills introduced in the House.
    Under Democratic leadership, the Judiciary Committee held 
nearly 80 hearings, reported 83 bills and resolutions to the 
House, and had primary jurisdictional involvement in the 
passage of 110 bills and resolutions. Of these, we were able to 
enact 53 into law.
    I hope that under the Republican majority the committee 
will continue to tackle difficult issues and solve problems 
with substantive hearings on meaningful legislation that moves 
to the House floor in a bipartisan manner.
    So far, they have produced very little, but I remain 
hopeful.
    With that in mind, I support the majority's request to 
increase funding for the 118th Congress. A funding increase 
will be critical to recruiting and hiring the staff we need to 
accomplish our important work and to providing them with the 
resources that they need to succeed.
    With so many pressing issues before our country, this 
funding increase is critical to allow us to continue to deliver 
results for the American people.
    I understand that the majority plans, after subtracting the 
amounts to cover administrative expenses and salaries for 
shared employees, to allocate two-thirds of the remaining funds 
to the majority and one-third for the minority to cover 
salaries. They also plan to maintain one shared employee for 
financial matters. This is in line with the committee's recent 
practice.
    Having said that, I do have several concerns with the 
majority's request. Unfortunately, we were merely presented 
with a copy of their request roughly 4 hours before it was 
submitted, and they made no attempt to seek any input from the 
minority. Since Chairman Jordan did not solicit our views, I 
hope to share some of our objections with you.
    First, we strongly object to the funding of ``up to'' 50 
staff slots and ``up to'' $15 million for new select 
committees. That is greater than the entire Judiciary Committee 
budget, for which they request a little more than $11 million.
    If they really propose a $15 million subcommittee, they 
should say so. By asking for ``up to'' this amount, we have no 
idea of the real scope of the select subcommittee, which makes 
it impossible to plan for. The budget after all is literally a 
plan to spend money. Apparently, they don't have one.
    We have other concerns that we hoped we would have been 
able to share with them. Had they asked, we might have advised 
them that the numbers they used for administrative expenses are 
exorbitant, especially coming from someone like Chairman Jordan 
who prides himself on being a fiscal conservative.
    I ask you to look carefully at the numbers in their 
presentation and you will be shocked, as I was, that they are 
asking for double, triple, and at times even 30 times more than 
was actually spent last year--30 times.
    For example, their travel budget is $260,000, up from 
$8,000 last year. That is a thirtyfold increase. Their printing 
budget is up from just $689 to $20,000, a twentyfold increase. 
They propose to triple the amount of money spent on so-called 
``other services,'' and they want to double the amount spent on 
supplies. They want almost $350,000 for equipment. Last year we 
managed just fine by spending only $65,000.
    Now, maybe they really did a careful cost estimate and came 
up with these numbers. Unlikely, but maybe they did.
    Why do I bother mentioning it here? The answer is because 
all of this administrative funding comes first, before they 
divide up the salaries. Therefore, it shrinks the amount of 
money going to the minority to pay for personnel.
    Was this on purpose? Probably not, but it does have a 
significant impact on the minority, especially if that money, 
as I suspect, is never actually spent on the items that they 
say they plan to spend it on. Perhaps they could learn from our 
example and run a more efficient operation.
    If we have a cooperative arrangement between the Chairman 
and Ranking Member, then I am comfortable sharing 
administrative expenses. If the expenses are equally shared and 
if the majority supports the minority's efforts to use the 
funds as it sees fit, then it is Okay to share.
    For example, if the Republicans don't want to pay for a 
HOPS system to track time off and we do, then we do not get to 
spend those funds.
    What if they don't want to pay for news sources that they 
don't agree with and what if they don't want to pay for 
computers or cell phones?
    Recently, they rejected spending requests on the personnel 
side of the budget as well. In response to question three on 
your questionnaire, they indicated there were no restrictions 
on how the minority was allowed to utilize its personnel funds 
last Congress. In response to question four, they indicated 
that the committee would allocate funds to the minority in the 
same manner as in the 117th Congress. And yet they have 
rejected personnel decisions by the minority already this year.
    They have indeed placed restrictions on how we spend the 
money. They have argued that we would not be able to spend more 
than one-twelfth the annual personnel budget in any given 
month. We believe this type of restriction is unprecedented.
    The Chairman. The gentleman is requested to conclude his 
remarks.
    Mr. Nadler. We would argue that so long as we have not gone 
over the total budget for the year, they ought to allow us to 
spend these funds as we see fit just as we did when we were in 
the majority. Right now, we have no recourse if they reject our 
request for expenses, even if our requests are rejected on a 
seemingly arbitrary basis.
    If that is the case, we do have a problem with the division 
of funds. If the division of funds is meant to enhance 
efficiencies by purchasing prescriptions in bulk, for example, 
that is fine. If it is used as a tool by the majority to deny 
funds and resources to the minority, that is not a fair 
division of funds.
    The bottom line----
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Nadler follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. The gentleman's time has expired. We are 
going to make sure we get through everyone's testimony here 
today. I don't want to cut you too short, but I did give you--I 
allowed you an extra minute.
    I would remind my colleagues that last year, under the 
Democratic majority, this House spent $18.3 million on the 
select committee on January 6th with very limited oversight by 
this body without Republicans appointed to that committee by 
our then minority leader, now Speaker of the House, Kevin 
McCarthy.
    Mr. Nadler. I would remind the Chairman that the minority--
--
    The Chairman. The gentleman is not recognized.
    Mr. Nadler. You want to cutoff speech, that is Okay.
    The Chairman. The gentleman was given his full 5 minutes 
and was graciously extended an additional 1 minute past that 
time. The gentleman is allowed to provide extended remarks in 
the written record through the duration of today if you would 
like to submit additional remarks.
    The majority and minority will both be allowed 5 minutes 
for questioning the witnesses. I will now yield from the 
majority's time to Ms. Laurel Lee for the purpose of asking the 
witnesses questions.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Jordan, I would like to begin with the select 
subcommittee on the Weaponinzation of the Federal Government, 
which has been added to the Judiciary Committee's 
responsibilities this year.
    Would you share for us what additional resources are needed 
in order for the select subcommittee to conduct its essential 
oversight and investigative work?
    Mr. Jordan. Yes. I appreciate the question.
    We think potentially a lot of additional resources. That is 
why we asked for the reserve fund.
    I mean, never forget we have an FBI that targeted moms and 
dads for showing up at school board meetings, an FBI that we 
learned a couple weeks ago in the Richmond Field Office said if 
you are a traditional Catholic, they are going to treat you as 
a domestic terrorist.
    We had a Department of Homeland Security attempt in this 
administration to set up a Disinformation Governance Board as 
if some Federal agency can tell you what is appropriate speech 
and what is not appropriate speech.
    Mr. Nadler just talked about free speech. I mean, you have 
got to be kidding me. That is the biggest attack I have ever 
seen, frankly, on the First Amendment.
    Of course, we now have the ATF, which has rewritten a rule 
without any input from the Congress that could potentially make 
millions of law-abiding citizens felons for exercising their 
Second Amendment liberties.
    That is just a quick sampling. That is why we think that a 
substantial reserve fund is so necessary.
    Ms. Lee. Chairman Jordan, mention was made of the travel 
budget and field hearings. The Judiciary Committee just 
returned from a field hearing to the border. Is that right?
    Mr. Jordan Sure did.
    Ms. Lee. Could you tell us, please, why it is that you 
believe it is important for the Judiciary Committee to have the 
opportunity to conduct such hearings out in the field?
    Mr. Jordan. Because 5 million illegal migrants have entered 
this country in the last 23 months. If that doesn't warrant 
having a travel budget.
    There is a reason why the Homeland Security went to the 
border in the last 2 weeks, the Speaker of the House went to 
the border in the last few weeks, the Judiciary Committee went 
to the border in the last few weeks, minus Democrats who 
refused to show up, and there is also the Energy and Commerce 
Committee went to the border, because it is such a substantial 
problem, not only to the communities on the border.
    We heard from the folks in Yuma. We heard from the hospital 
administrator in Yuma who said that there were residents, 
American citizens in his community, who had to go somewhere 
else, couldn't go to the maternity ward because it was full. I 
mean, they were helping migrants who were delivering children. 
You know, God bless them. Of course they are going to do that. 
But citizens there had to travel to Phoenix or San Diego or 
somewhere else to deliver a child.
    That is the kind of impact it is having on the border and 
of course we are beginning to see this across the country.
    That is why we thought it is important to have a travel 
budget as we deal with this immigration border crisis that we 
have seen now, again, for 2 years.
    Ms. Lee. Chairman Jordan, what restrictions were placed on 
Republican members and staff of the committee during the 117th 
Congress, especially when it came to conducting official 
travel?
    Mr. Jordan. Yes. We were limited. Republican staff were 
limited to traveling to the border in 2021. Also, I would point 
out I don't know that we had even--we had to go I think a year 
before we even had--over a year before we even had Secretary 
Mayorkas in front of the Judiciary Committee, which, as you all 
know, has primary jurisdiction over immigration legislation and 
immigration enforcement.
    We want to change that. That is part of why we are doing 
and asking for the budget requests that we are asking for.
    Ms. Lee. You mentioned in your initial remarks that you had 
proposed a budget ``up to'' certain amounts in a couple places. 
Would you tell us why you have chosen to do that instead of 
setting them at the highest amount that you think might be 
required?
    Mr. Jordan. Well, because, as I said in my opening 
statement, because we are the U.S. Congress. We are supposed to 
be stewards of the American people's money, good stewards, and 
we felt, look, we are going to need resources to get to the 
bottom of everything that is going on.
    The idea that you had the Federal Government telling big 
tech companies, literally emails to big tech companies saying 
we think you should take down these posts and look at these 
accounts, as Professor Turley said, you had censorship by 
surrogate, that is frightening.
    It is going to take resources, staff, and people to get to 
the bottom of all the things that are going on where the 
government we think has in many ways been turned against the 
very people it is supposed to represent and supposed to serve.
    At the same time, we didn't want to come in and just have 
that money. We said we will draw down as is needed to do the 
good work that the Congress said should happen in this select 
committee.
    Ms. Lee. Thank you, Chairman Jordan.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back the remainder of my time.
    The Chairman. I reserve the balance of our time.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 
minutes for the purpose of asking questions.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you, Chairman Jordan and Ranking Member Nadler, for 
being here.
    I think I would just express personally my disappointment 
that I think, of all the standing committees that are coming 
before us, this is the only committee that hasn't been able to 
arrive at an agreement on the expenditure of dollars. We 
clearly would hope that would be the case going forward.
    In the last Congress, in the Judiciary Committee, under 
Chairman Nadler's leadership, he mentioned some of the things. 
The committee was very busy, passed more than a hundred bills 
on the House floor, held more than 80 hearings, marked up 
nearly 100 bills in committee.
    Over the 4 years, again under Chairman Nadler's leadership 
and his predecessor, the Judiciary Committee ensured that 
survivors of sexual assault and sexual harassment are free to 
tell their stories and seek justice in Federal courts, 
reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act, codified lynching 
as a Federal crime in Federal law, addressed the State of hate 
crimes against Asian Americans and others in the wake of the 
COVID-19 pandemic, enacted the first significant gun safety 
legislation in a generation, enacted measured to strengthen the 
antitrust system. In addition, a Judiciary Committee bill 
enshrined marriage equality into Federal law.
    It was an ambitious agenda with a series of accomplishments 
with less money than is being proposed to spend in this 
Congress.
    Let me just begin.
    Chairman Jordan, would you anticipate marking up a hundred 
bills in the committee in this Congress? Is that your goal.
    Mr. Jordan. I don't necessarily think the American people 
want us to pass a whole lot more laws. What I think they want 
us to do is deal with the border situation and deal with the 
government that I think so many Americans think has been turned 
against them in many ways. That is where we are going to focus. 
We do anticipate passing immigration enforcement legislation 
out of the committee in the very near future.
    Mr. Morelle. I understand that you may not be interested in 
marking up or passing as many bills as happened in the previous 
Congresses.
    Is the resource that you have asked for, particularly the 
increase, are those resources going to be devoted toward 
investigations primarily, transcribed interviews, document 
requests? Is that the nature of what you see the spend will be?
    Mr. Jordan. The resources will be for the committee's work. 
I do anticipate a lot of the committee's work is going to be in 
the area you just described.
    Mr. Morelle. Of the what? I am sorry. I didn't hear you.
    Mr. Jordan. In the area you just described, doing the 
constitutional oversight duty and function that we have as 
members of Congress to stop the behavior we have seen from so 
many of these Federal agencies.
    Frankly, to propose legislation. It is our job to propose 
legislation that would help remedy the situation.
    Mr. Morelle. Obviously from our committee's perspective and 
from my role here, is to try to ensure that the minority in 
each of the various committees has access to the resources they 
need to do their work.
    I want to ask whether you would make sure that you pledge 
that the minority has not only the resources they need to do 
their work, but also unimpeded access to the resources once 
they are allocated.
    Mr. Jordan. We believe our budget plan does that.
    Mr. Morelle. I am sorry?
    Mr. Jordan. We believe that our budget plan does that and 
is consistent with the way we had to operate in the last 
Congress.
    Mr. Morelle. Mr. Ranking Member, Mr. Nadler, how do you 
feel about that? Do you feel you will have unimpeded access to 
the resources from the committee?
    Mr. Nadler. No. We have already been blocked. They are 
enforcing a rule which has never been enforced before, which is 
to say that you get an amount of money, and one-twelfth of that 
must be spent in each month. You can't--you can't budget that 
way.
    We have already been told--some of the people we want to 
hire, we can't hire yet. Already harmed us. We have never done 
this before. Committee, the minority, the majority gets a 
budget. The majority is supposed to get--I am sorry. The 
minority is supposed to get one-third after administrative 
expenses, but we have never had a month-by-month limit.
    I also--let me just also point out, in reference to what 
the chairman said a few minutes ago, we did allow staff and the 
ranking member to use funds to travel to the border last year, 
or in last Congress, I should say, when I was the Chairman. We 
also went to El Paso after the mass shooting, invited all the 
Republicans to come. They chose not to.
    Mr. Morelle. I want to be careful about my time, so there 
are a number of other questions I have.
    Clearly, I want to make sure there is a split of resources, 
even on the Subcommittee on Weaponization, et cetera, which I 
don't know that has been agreed to, but want to keep a close 
eye on this and continue to make sure there is accountability 
here.
    With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    Next week, we will be marking up these committee requests, 
but I will say, Chairman Jordan, you have a huge task in front 
of you as it relates to protecting the freedoms and liberties 
of Americans, as it is addressing the border crisis and the 
immigration crisis that has played out under this Democratic 
President. I know you have a request to increase your funding, 
but it pales in comparison to the $18 million that was spent by 
the Democratic majority last Congress in a partisan move on the 
select committee on January 6.
    We will take all that under advisement next week. We 
appreciate you both being here, part of our commitment to 
return to regular order and to be transparent to the American 
taxpayers.
    Thank you for your time.
    Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    The Chairman. Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, thank 
you both for being here today to testify at our hearing on 
committee funding.
    Today's hearing is our commitment to returning to regular 
order in this institution, as well as providing transparency to 
the American people.
    You will both be recognized for 5 minutes for opening 
statements. Then the majority and minority on this committee 
will have 5 minutes in total each to ask questions.
    I will now recognize the Chairwoman of the committee, Dr. 
Foxx.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. VIRGINIA FOXX, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
           CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

    Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    While we were waiting, I cut out some of my remarks but 
will submit the full text of them for the record if you don't 
mind.
    Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, and members of the 
committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear with my 
colleague, Ranking Member Scott, to testify about our budget 
request for the 118th Congress.
    The work of the Committee on Education and Workforce is 
broad. From education and employment to healthcare and 
retirement, our work affects every aspect of people's lives. 
That is why the work we do here is so important.
    In that light, we have proposed a fiscally prudent budget 
that will allow the committee to advance bold legislative and 
oversight agendas while continuing to serve as trusted stewards 
of the resources we have been given by the American public.
    The committee respectfully requests a 7-percent budget 
increase for the first session of the 118th Congress and an 
additional 6 percent increase for the second session of the 
118th Congress.
    The pandemic gave us a window into just how broken our 
entire education system is. I know everyone here cares deeply 
about giving our Nation's students the best chance of success. 
Working together this Congress, we can truly improve the 
education system and give all students the opportunities they 
deserve.
    We will look for real solutions that help borrowers and 
protect taxpayers to address the student--the broken student 
loan system. We will also strengthen our workforce development 
programs so we can close our Nation's skills gap and prepare 
the next generation of workers for our evolving economy.
    As healthcare continues to be a huge expense for Americans, 
we will focus on strengthening and expanding access to 
employer-sponsored health insurance. The committee will also 
conduct vigorous oversight ensuring the Federal bureaucracy 
administers laws responsibly and as Congress intended. The 
executive branch has gotten too comfortable bypassing the 
legislative process set up by the Constitution.
    As the people's Representatives, we should all be willing 
to guard the authority granted to us by the Constitution, 
regardless of which party is in the Oval Office. As I have said 
many times, my middle initial ``A'' no longer stands for Ann, 
but, rather, for accountability. Everything we do will focus on 
holding the Federal Government bureaucrats accountable for how 
they spend taxpayers' hard-earned money.
    In order to execute the committee's robust legislative and 
oversight workload, the committee must be properly staffed. We 
need to recruit, hire, and retain staff in order to enhance the 
committee's institutional knowledge and productivity.
    To enhance the committee's legislative and oversight 
efforts, we will pursue a strong schedule of hearings in 
Washington, DC, regional field hearings, and relevant site 
visits to hear directly from affected parties and see firsthand 
the challenges facing our schools and workplaces. The American 
people expect us to ensure that Federal policies support and do 
not undermine their ability to pursue a lifetime of success and 
prosperity.
    Personally, my reputation for frugality is well-deserved, 
which is why we commit to spending each dollar we are allocated 
efficiently and effectively as we do the work the American 
people sent us to do. We respectfully ask the committee take 
these factors into account as you consider our budget request.
    Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I appreciate your 
time and am happy to answer any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Foxx follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Foxx.
    Ranking Member Scott, you are now recognized.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. ROBERT C. "BOBBY" SCOTT, A REPRESENTATIVE 
          IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

    Mr. Scott of Virginia. Thank you, and good afternoon, 
Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle. Good to see my 
colleague from Virginia and the gentlelady from California. It 
is--thank you for the opportunity to speak before you as 
ranking member with Chairwoman Foxx to speak in support of our 
bipartisan budget for the House Education and Workforce 
Committee.
    I also want to thank Chairwoman Foxx for developing our 
committee budget and for--and to support the request for the 
118th Congress, which represents no more than a 7-percent 
increase over the last Congress.
    Although I believe our committee deserves more than a 7-
percent increase, I do think it is at least sufficient enough 
of an increase to carry out our committee's legislative and 
oversight responsibilities. Moreover, Dr. Foxx and I want to 
continue to be role models for our colleagues and work in a 
productive bipartisan manner so that we can continue to 
disagree without being disagreeable.
    For the past practice, one-third of the budget would be 
allocated to the minority. It has been our practice in the 
committee to provide the minority with autonomy over its budget 
allocation. I look forward to Chairwoman Foxx continuing to 
honor this committee's tradition.
    Moreover, the budget allocation would allow the minority to 
continue its work with the highest level of professionalism and 
expertise. As you know, the committee has jurisdiction over 
matters that impact all walks of life--children, students, 
workers, older Americans--and as such, it is imperative that we 
attract and develop and retain a diverse, highly talented, and 
credentialed staff who can develop evidence-based policy 
initiatives to improve the lives of the American people.
    During the 117th Congress, this robust staff worked to 
present 60 committee hearings, report out 25 bills of the 
committee, pass 23 bills through the House, and had ultimately 
7 bills signed by the President.
    We had many other of our proposals adopted in larger bills, 
such as the American Rescue Act Plan and others. Simply put, 
when Americans were struggling, the committee and staff 
delivered. As a result, we added more jobs into the economy in 
2 years than any previous administration had added in 4, 
including 100 percent recovery of the jobs lost during the 
pandemic. We saved the pensions of over 1 million workers in 
the multi-employee pension fund and, at the same time, 
protected hundreds of businesses from closing.
    We delivered the largest one-time Federal investment in K-
12 education in U.S. history and brought the number of 
Americans without health insurance down to the lowest 
percentage ever.
    Moving forward, in the minority, the committee Democrats 
and our staff will not rest. We pledge to work with Dr. Foxx in 
areas where we find commonality, and we have already identified 
areas, such as workforce development, juvenile justice, 
protecting consumers from surprise billing, and hopefully there 
will be others. We will also press for the protection of the 
right of workers to organize, earn a livable wage that honors 
the dignity of their work and a safe workplace environment free 
of harassment and discrimination.
    We will also continue to promote equity in education so 
that students can learn in a safe, welcoming environment and 
students can access and afford an education that will prepare 
them for the modern economy. We will promote food security 
policies and expansion of affordable healthcare.
    In sum, the minority on the Education and Workforce 
Committee remains committed to our legislative responsibility 
to put people over politics. I join Chairwoman Foxx in asking 
the House Administration Committee to support our request, and 
thank you for the opportunity to testify.
    I will be happy to answer questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Scott of Virginia follows:]

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    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Scott. 
Appreciate both of you being here.
    The majority and minority will now each have 5 minutes to 
ask questions of the witness. I will start with myself.
    Chairwoman Foxx, you have a robust travel plan. I think 
that is really important to go out and hear from the American 
people. Could you just provide a few additional details of what 
you look to obtain while being outside of Washington, DC.?
    Ms. Foxx. Well, we hope to obtain what I think each member 
hopes to obtain every time we go out into our district and talk 
to people. We want to hear from the people being affected by 
the policies that are passed by the Congress of the United 
States and how they are affecting them and to receive 
suggestions on how we can do things better. It is an 
opportunity to hear from the public--not talk to them but 
listen to them.
    The Chairman. Thank you. I am going to dive--shift gears 
slightly and kind of go into the mundane here for a second 
because I know you correctly said you have a reputation for 
being frugal, and I think this House has an opportunity to be a 
little more frugal writ large.
    Inside of your funding request, there is $160,000 each 
session for the cost of subscriptions and publications. One of 
the things that we are looking at this committee is, are there 
campuswide solutions to bring the costs down so that all of our 
committees aren't signing up for different subscriptions at 
different prices?
    Could you maybe just comment on that? Is there anything in 
particular that would be helpful if we had a campuswide or 
House-wide solution that would allow us to bring costs down?
    Ms. Foxx. Yes. There are several of the subscriptions that 
we know are very expensive, and we applaud your looking at the 
opportunity to get those campuswide, as you said. I think it 
is--one of the law pieces that I can't remember--it has gone 
out of my head right now--that is very, very expensive. 
Political Pro, there are several like that are very, very 
expensive.
    We need those for--CQ, Westlaw--that was the one I was 
trying to think of. Westlaw is very expensive. Anything that 
you could do to make these available to everyone instead of 
everybody having to get their own subscription would be 
terrific.
    The Chairman. Alright. I appreciate your feedback on that. 
That is something that I think we are going to have the 
opportunity to look into to save taxpayers money by looking for 
some of these solutions rather than----
    Ms. Foxx. We, for example, did not continue to subscribe to 
National Journal in our office when it got so expensive. I 
enjoy reading it. I learn from it, but it just wasn't worth the 
cost.
    The Chairman. Absolutely. Understood.
    I will reserve the balance of my time.
    I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Chairman Foxx, for being here, and 
Ranking Member Scott. I had the good fortune to serve for 
nearly 4 years on the committee, and I have great appreciation 
for the work that you both do and the members as well as the 
members of your staff, who I know work incredibly hard.
    I wanted to--first, I am grateful for the fact that you 
have come together around distribution of resources, and, as I 
have asked each chair and ranking member, first, just about the 
unrestricted access to the resources for the minority, would 
you commit to allowing them, without impeding their ability, to 
hire within their budget allocation?
    Ms. Foxx. Absolutely. That--as Ranking Member Scott has 
said, that has been the tradition, and I will fulfill that 
again.
    Mr. Morelle. Yes. Very good. Appreciate that.
    Mr. Scott, are you confident in the relationship that you 
will have access to resources that you need?
    Mr. Scott of Virginia. Yes.
    Mr. Morelle. The one thing I do want to know--and I 
appreciate the committee's emphasis on field hearings and 
appreciate your anticipated travel plans for the 118th 
Congress. I had asked earlier for a couple of other Chairs, 
relative to the process that has been established with 
coordination between a number of different offices--Sergeant at 
Arms, Capitol Police, the Clerk's Office around court 
reporters, the Chief Administrative Office around broadcasting 
and live-streaming--that system seems, by all accounts, to have 
saved time and money during field hearings that have been done 
in the past.
    Will you continue to utilize that system that we have used 
in previous Congresses?
    Ms. Foxx. Absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle. Okay.
    Ms. Torres? Okay. Very good.
    Thank you. Appreciate all the work you do. Appreciate you 
both being here, and, with that----
    Ms. Foxx. It is nice to see you, Mr. Morelle and Ms. 
Torres, again. She is now not on Rules, I know, so I will miss 
seeing her.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, we welcome you----
    Ms. Foxx. You, too.
    Mr. Morelle [continuing]. to come back here anytime. We 
appreciate seeing you here, and thanks for all your good work.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. I appreciate both of you testifying here 
today. We will be marking up the full report next week. Your 
insights were helpful, and I appreciate you being part of our 
commitment to regular order and restoring transparency to the 
American people.
    Thank you very much.
    Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
    Mr. Scott of Virginia. We miss the gentleman from New York 
on the committee. He was a great member.
    The Chairman. Chairman Turner and Ranking Member Himes, 
appreciate you being early. We are running ahead of schedule, 
so Mr. Himes is not late; he is early by 4 minutes. We 
appreciate you working with us here.
    Today is a hearing as part of our commitment to regular 
order and transparency to the American people. We will allow 
each of you 5 minutes for the purpose of opening statements, 
and then the majority and the minority will have a total of 5 
minutes each to ask each of you questions.
    I will now recognize you, Mr. Turner, for the purpose of an 
opening statement for 5 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF THE HON. MICHAEL R. TURNER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

    Mr. Turner. Great. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking 
Member Morelle.
    Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to 
testify in support of budget request of the House Permanent 
Select Committee on Intelligence for 118th Congress. I am 
joined by my Ranking Member, Congressman Jim Himes.
    In recent years, the Intelligence Committee has been 
distracted by partisan politics, but at HPSCI's organizational 
meeting earlier this year, the committee was addressed by 
Speaker McCarthy and Minority Leader Jeffries to deliver, in 
unison, one directive: Return the committee's work exclusively 
toward national security and oversight of the intelligence 
community and to do so in a bipartisan manner. Ranking Member 
Himes and I have accepted this charge, and we have echoed those 
expectations with the membership of the committee.
    To accomplish our requirements, we are requesting 17.2 
million for the 118th Congress, including 8.2 million for the 
first session, and 9 million for the second. The request 
represents a 13.9-percent increase in 2023, an additional 
increase of 10 percent over that for 2024.
    If supported, the request will fund HPSCI's payroll 
operations and investments in information technology, IT, which 
are unique to our committee and are long overdue. With these 
moneys, the House of Representatives is investing in a renewed 
Intelligence Committee that will not only conduct oversight and 
legislative responsibilities but will offer significantly 
improved support to the standing committees of the House.
    This is an initiative driven by the Speaker's desire to 
ensure that the legislative activities of the House are fully 
informed, including, when appropriate, by classified 
intelligence information. Just to underscore that, our 
committee is now open, and we are working diligently to provide 
intelligence information to the jurisdictional committees of 
the House.
    In presenting HPSCI's budget, I want to provide you some 
context related to the challenges we face as we meet today. The 
United States faces unprecedented strategic threats from 
adversaries, including China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran. 
Our adversaries are investing heavily in modernized 
capabilities and have become increasingly aggressive. They are 
testing our resolve, pushing the boundaries of international 
norms, and using all elements of their national power to divide 
and dominate. HPSCI has a duty to understand these threats.
    Mr. Chairman and colleagues, timely indications and 
warnings are critical to sound defense and foreign policy. 
Despite the enormous potential of open-source information, the 
vast majority of what we need to defend ourselves must be 
gained through clandestine and covert means.
    In addition, it is the Intelligence Committee's 
responsibility, the reason of its founding in 1977, to guard 
the American people from abuse originating from our Nation's 
spy agency. Since our founding, we have enacted laws to prevent 
intelligence agencies from targeting Americans, but these laws 
and the IC's compliance require intensive oversight.
    Mr. Chairman, HPSCI will become a better resource for the 
House. As you know, an essential aspect of our work is that it 
must be done behind closed doors, in a SCIF, and with strict 
security controls. Tight security is needed because HPSCI 
maintains information related to the Nation's most sensitive 
classified activities, activities that risk lives and come at 
great cost.
    At the same time, strident security and 
compartmentalization from the rest of the House has limited our 
ability to serve the institution. I am confident that we can do 
a better job in this. We have already demonstrated the value 
proposition of our new rules, updated earlier this month, with 
shared intelligence to the various committees.
    Regarding the substance of our budget request, first, 
funding requests will enable the recruitment and retention of 
highly trained staff. Our staff all must have security 
clearance, which of course increases costs. Also, our funding 
request reflects HPSCI's information technology needs. We are 
unique to the House. Due to the classified nature of our work, 
members and staff can only perform their work in the 
committee's offices, which is a secure compartmentalized 
information facility, or SCIF.
    In recognition of the escalated counterintelligence threats 
to our operations, HPSCI undertakes additional security-related 
steps, including the maintenance of a separate enclave and 
firewall within the House network. Additionally, devices in the 
committee spaces often require modification for use in a SCIF.
    The committee operates an internal classified network that 
is maintained exclusively by HPSCI, on which the bulk of our 
oversight activities are conducted. Network reliability and 
security is critical. Also, to accomplish our objectives, we 
must seek contractual support from information security system 
professionals with appropriate security clearances. Also, we 
maintain an airgap system and a completely separate--a 
computerized system which is unique within the House.
    The committee requests additional funding for its base 
information technology budget in order to support a Department 
of Defense and intelligence community approved supply chain 
security program for network equipment. I cannot overstate the 
importance of this work.
    In short, I want to say we are the new Intelligence 
Committee. We are going to be doing more things, and we have 
additional members to our committee, including having added 
committees of jurisdiction with opportunities to sit within our 
committee structure itself. We need to update our security 
systems, our information systems, and to be able to serve our 
members and our committees.
    I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Turner follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you, Chairman Turner.
    Ranking Member Himes, it is hard--by default, I also went 
to Chairman, but we have moved you as no longer on the select 
committee.
    Ranking Member Himes.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES A. HIMES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
             CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT

    Mr. Himes. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking Member 
Morelle.
    Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to 
discuss the Intelligence Committee's budget request for this 
Congress. I am pleased to join Chairman Turner in this budget 
request. Chairman Turner and his staff have taken a very 
collaborative and bipartisan approach as the committee's work 
has gotten underway, and the----
    The Chairman. I just remind the Ranking Member, your mike 
may not be on, which I can hear you just fine, but I don't 
think our live feed can hear you.
    Mr. Himes. It was not on. I apologize. I will, however, 
keep going.
    HPSCI, as the Chairman said, is a unique committee in many 
respects, not least because the agencies we oversee operate 
nearly entirely in secret. Unlike other committees, which can 
benefit from the expertise and research of outside experts, 
journalists, and others, we cannot use those sources. 
Meanwhile, the task before the committee is vast and growing.
    I would note that, in addition to the Iran threat, the 
North Korea threat, the ongoing work against terrorism, the 
newly emergent crypto and other technological threats, the 
committee is now dealing with the Russia-Ukraine issue, which I 
am not sure we would have anticipated many years ago. Of course 
China and Taiwan becomes ever more demanding.
    We oversee 18 IC agencies and tens of billions of dollars 
authorized each year, a Herculean task that is done with a 
staff smaller than many other committees and oversees smaller 
agencies that are far less opaque.
    Additionally, the committee has grown from 22 members in 
the 116th Congress to 25 members in the 118th Congress, which 
necessitates additional staff and resources to support member 
engagements, briefing, travel, and more.
    The chairman did a great job covering the unique and 
specific IT needs, so I won't repeat what he said. I will, 
however, just focus for a second on our staff. To perform the 
functions that the House and the American people expect from 
us, the committee requires a particularly specialized and 
experienced group of staff members.
    As the committee's budget submission reflects, additional 
resources for professional staff members would ensure the 
committee's ability to bring on highly qualified and 
specialized staff, including those with technical backgrounds 
in high demand in the private sector and elsewhere. An increase 
in budget resources as well as an accompanying increase in FTEs 
is more than justified and more important today than it has 
been in many, many years.
    Once again, I would like to thank Chairman Turner for the 
strong partnership we have established, and I urge, 
respectfully, the House Administration Committee to support 
this request.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Himes follows:]
   
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    The Chairman. Thank you both very much.
    The majority and minority will each now have 5 minutes to 
question the witnesses.
    I will take the majority's time and yield to Mr. Loudermilk 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Appreciate both of you being here. I know, working in 
intelligence in the Air Force in the past, I know how critical 
this is and how critical this committee is because I think I 
have seen, and I think the American people have seen, some 
failures in intelligence community over previous years. In 
fact, I think maybe the committee had its eye off the ball in 
previous years. I am very pleased to see the new direction and 
the leadership going forward.
    There are many challenges. You guys have brought up 
challenges. I mean, everything from North Korea, Iran, Russia, 
and China. What do you see as the most significant challenges 
for the committee itself in this Congress, Mr. Chairman?
    Mr. Turner. Well, one of the aspects about this committee 
that is different from others that needs to be taken in 
consideration when you review our budget is that every member 
has their own portfolio and, in that, has the ability to order 
up briefings and to conduct overseas travel and domestic travel 
for codels for factfinding.
    If you will, imagine a committee of 25 people where they 
all have the status of a subcommittee chairmanship in other 
committees. That allows us to have the breadth to deal with the 
broad areas of some of the challenges that we have. For 
example, from my background, I deal with nuclear weapons, both 
our adversaries and ours. We have--and Dr. Wenstrup, who deals 
with, you know, bioweapons, chemical weapons, obviously COVID 
origins, and also the fentanyl issue.
    As you go through our committee of people like yourselves 
with your experience that you were expressing, have then that 
focus that allows us to have that 360 view of all the threats 
and to be able to deal with them in support of the committee, 
that is one of the aspects that does increase our costs.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Thank you.
    Other areas that you know, as I look at it, it appears to 
have an impact. I am probably one of the few members that 
actually go into the SCIF and I read them--the budget request. 
I mean, we have brought on Space Force since I have been in 
Congress, and you are obviously increasing the committee 
membership.
    What does the oversight of, let's say, Space Force and 
increasing the membership--what kind of impact does that have 
on the budget?
    Mr. Turner. Right, so as I was describing, where each of 
these members have, in our committee, a status that another 
committee would be a subcommittee chairmanship, they need staff 
to be able to pursue their portfolio. In addition, then, with 
the add of Space Force, it is not just the functions of Space 
Force, but it is the interrelationship between the IC and what 
Space Force is accomplishing, and looking to their future, but 
we, like the Armed Services Committee, we vote on the budget 
and the funding priorities of the intelligence community. To do 
that, we have to be informed in what they do and what their 
future capabilities might be. And that process of becoming 
informed also is an expense.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Now, I actually worked in the IT 
sector in intelligence back when it was just coming--was coming 
to age, as Ethernet was new. I understand the specific 
challenges that you have in your unique environment and you 
have touched on it.
    How significant of an impact does this, you know, airgapped 
IT network requirement have on your request?
    Mr. Turner. It is significant. As you can imagine, we are a 
significant target, and, also, we have to be in a way that we 
can host and marry ourselves to the intelligence community to 
exchange data and information so that we can review it, so that 
we can assist and help them.
    Those are very unique systems you won't find anywhere else 
in the Capitol and also cannot just be taken directly from the 
IC itself. So it is a unique system, but it has to be able to 
communicate with and protect----
    Mr. Loudermilk. Right.
    Mr. Turner [continuing]. the data and information.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, I appreciate that.
    Last--and, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, any other 
information you would like to share that we haven't covered?
    Mr. Turner. The one thing I would say is that this is your 
new bipartisan Intelligence Committee. We are working together. 
My Ranking Member, Jim Himes, and I have both committed 
ourselves to that.
    That means that we are going to be doing more, not just 
with the additional members that we have but doing more in 
interacting with the committees. To be able to do that, we have 
to do it in a professional manner, and that is reflected in the 
budget we have submitted.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Mr. Himes, anything?
    Mr. Himes. Amen.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, thank you both, and I yield 
back.
    The Chairman. I now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. 
Morelle, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
    Thank you, Chairman Turner and Ranking Member Himes, for 
not only being here but the important work that you both do.
    I wanted to follow up the question from Mr. Loudermilk. 
Just to give me a sense, the increase that you have requested--
and you have talked about the uniqueness of your mission. Can 
you sort of assign a percentage of the dollar increase, how 
much of that is as a result of the sort of uniqueness that 
you--that the committee has in terms of its responsibilities?
    Mr. Turner. I wouldn't be able to quantify it as a 
percentage, but I would tell you this: You know, we are both 
the legislative branch. We are a committee of the House, and we 
are both operating on almost an agency level where we have the 
custodial responsibility to handle and manage the information 
and data that we receive from the intelligence community and 
its agencies.
    That duality, where we have to be equal to them in order to 
be able to do our function, causes an increase in costs for us, 
and that is reflected in our budget.
    Mr. Morelle. Very good.
    I note, too, in your written submission, relative to access 
to the minority for the allocation that is theirs, that you 
anticipate no changes in their ability to access resources they 
see fit under the allocation. Is that--I just want you to 
confirm that--I think that is what you said. You are using the 
same----
    Mr. Turner. Correct. We are operating in the same that we 
had before, and I think Representative Himes can speak to this 
issue also.
    Mr. Himes. Yes. No. We have been working quite well 
together to make sure that it is both consistent with precedent 
and, you know, fair and gives the minority the resources that 
we need. I think we are pretty close to there in terms of 
getting our own budget.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
    I want to thank you both for--again, for the mission, and I 
am grateful to hear about the Speaker and the minority leader 
both, you know, giving you the charge of working in a 
bipartisan way. What you do is critically important to the 
future of the United States and its national security, and I 
appreciate all that you do.
    With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Loudermilk. [Presiding.] Alright. Thank you.
    Well, I appreciate both of you being here. We appreciate 
the work you are doing, too, and the new direction the Intel 
Committee is taking. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Turner. Thank you.
    Mr. Loudermilk. He has been up here all day, so--the 
committee now welcomes Chairman Graves and Ranking Member 
Larsen from the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure.
    As a reminder, we have read your written statements, and we 
ask that you limit your testimony to 5 minutes each and make 
sure that your mike is turned on as we can hear you, but we 
want to make sure the live feed can as well.
    I now recognize Chairman Graves for 5 minutes, followed by 
Ranking Member Mr. Larsen.
    Mr. Graves.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. SAM GRAVES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                   FROM THE STATE OF MISSOURI

    Mr. Graves. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member. I 
appreciate the opportunity to share with you today the 
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure's budget request 
for this Congress, 118th.
    In consultation with the Ranking Member, the committee has 
requested an 8-percent increase over our 2022 funding levels, 
and that level reflects an inflation-based increase and is 
going to provide the committee with the necessary resources to 
tackle our aggressive legislative and oversight agenda for this 
Congress.
    On the legislative front, the committee already has begun 
discussions on reauthorizing several major agencies and 
programs under the committee's vast jurisdiction. These include 
the Coast Guard; Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety 
Administration, PHMSA; the National Transportation Safety 
Board, which is obviously leading the investigation into the 
recent Ohio freight train derailment; the Maritime 
Administration; and the Federal Maritime Commission; and the 
committee's biggest undertaking, the reauthorization of FAA, 
which is set to expire on October 1st.
    The committee also plans to undertake the regular review of 
Army Corps projects and programs in 2024. Equally important, 
the committee must provide oversight over the many laws and 
funding that was passed last Congress, including the 
Infrastructure Investment & Jobs Act, the Inflation Reduction 
Act, the American Rescue Plan, and the CHIPS Act. These laws 
represent nearly a trillion dollars in spending across every 
area of the committee's jurisdiction, from DOT to GSA, and FEMA 
to the Coast Guard.
    The American people expect to ensure that the 
administration spends--expect us to ensure that the 
administration spends those dollars wisely and according to the 
law, and there is a shared interest in conducting that 
oversight.
    As part of that oversight effort, the committee plans a 
very robust travel agenda, and it is going to include official 
field hearings and also oversight of infrastructure projects 
and programs across the country. Infrastructure impacts every 
single corner of the country, and each community has very 
diverse needs, and we intend to get out there and see that 
firsthand.
    In addition, the budget accounts for the fact that the 
staff salary cap was raised last Congress, and the committee is 
very lucky to have many long-tenured staffers with very vast--
some vast institutional knowledge, and so our proposed budget 
is going to help the committee with staff retention as much as 
anything, but also allows us to be competitive in bringing on 
new staff to deliver on our legislative and oversight agenda.
    With that, I look forward to answering any questions you 
have, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Graves follows:]
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Loudermilk. Mr. Larsen.

STATEMENT OF THE HON. RICK LARSEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS 
                  FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

    Mr. Larsen. Chair and Ranking Member and other members of 
the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to join Chair 
Graves in presenting the Committee on Transportation and 
Infrastructure budget request for the 118th.
    The T&I Committee has a long history of bipartisan 
cooperation with both sides realizing the importance of 
investing in our Nation's infrastructure, ensuring the safety 
of our transportation systems, and creating jobs. I expect that 
cooperation to continue under Chair Graves' leadership.
    Now, just looking back to the 117th Congress, we passed 
bipartisan legislation authorizing the U.S. Coast Guard and a 
fifth consecutive and bipartisan Water Resources Development 
Act. We also acted decisively to bolster our economy, to limit 
the fallout from COVID-19, the pandemic, while modernizing and 
transforming the way people and goods move with the passage of 
several landmark bills, pieces of the American Rescue Plan, 
pieces of the Inflation Reduction Act, pieces of the CHIPS and 
Science Act, and of course the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
    Part of the committee's focus this year will be oversight 
of these bills, particularly the BIL, to ensure that funds we 
provided are being used for the intended purposes. I look 
forward to working with Chair Graves to do just that.
    As the Chair noted, we have a full legislative agenda for 
the 118th Congress. First and foremost, we must pass 
legislation reauthorizing the FAA before the end of September. 
The committee also intends to reauthorize the National 
Transportation Safety Board, the Coast Guard, the Maritime 
Administration, Federal Maritime Commission, and the Pipeline 
and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration's pipeline safety 
programs.
    For us to do the job for the American people, we request 
that you fund the T&I Committee at a modest increase of 8 
percent over our 2022 funding level. This funding will be used 
to ensure we can retain the oversight and infrastructure 
specialists who can help us achieve all of our objectives and 
accommodate a significant increase in travel costs due to the 
lack of travel during the past few years.
    The committee has a robust and bipartisan travel plan, to 
include both domestic and international travel, that will help 
inform our legislative agenda and allow for greater oversight 
of the projects and programs under the committee's 
jurisdiction.
    As in the past, the committee will continue to provide two-
thirds of the personnel budget to the majority and one-third to 
the minority. The nonpersonnel budget, like travel and other 
things, will continue to be shared fairly between the majority 
and minority.
    I look forward to a strong partnership with the Chair this 
year in the 118th Congress, and, with your help, the Committee 
on T&I will achieve our shared objectives and be one of the 
most productive committees in the 118th Congress.
    Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today, 
and happy to answer any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Larsen follows:]
    
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
    
    Mr. Loudermilk. Well, thank you, and appreciate you being 
here to testify.
    As you mentioned, the committee--your legislative agenda in 
the 118th Congress includes reauthorizing policies and programs 
for the FAA, Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety 
Administration, National Transportation Safety Board, U.S. 
Coast Guard, Maritime Administration, and Federal Maritime 
Commission, as well as beginning to develop the 2024 Water 
Resources Development Act, which authorizes projects and 
policies of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. You are going to 
be a little bit busy, I think.
    In your budget submission, you mentioned all these 
activities will require the committee to leverage outside 
technology and software. What technology software is the 
committee evaluating, and how will that software assist the 
committee in getting through this heavy legislative agenda in 
the 118th Congress? Mr. Chairman?
    Mr. Graves. So that the software we are using, we use--what 
is it? The HOP? What was it? HOPS, which we obviously track 
our--you know, the salaries and our leaves and stuff like that, 
which our personnel office is using, too, and so we are 
obviously trying to bring the committee up to speed and--you 
know, in utilizing that technology, doing the best we can to--
you know, to provide that interactive, you know, that 
opportunity.
    Also for people to be able to tie in when it comes to--we 
are also using technology and software when it comes to doing 
the earmark process through WRDA, and, in the last--you know, 
in the infrastructure bill that we were working on, you know, 
allows the access to that and being able to pull that 
information down. So----
    Mr. Loudermilk. So the software is pretty critical?
    Mr. Graves. The software is extraordinarily critical.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay.
    Mr. Graves. Yes. We need to keep up with them, yes.
    Mr. Loudermilk. This is an upgrade of the existing software 
you have?
    Mr. Graves.
    [Nonverbal response.]
    Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. The only other question I have, the 
committee's budget request includes 203,765 in funding to pay 
for subscriptions to publications. If the House were to 
consider providing additional subscriptions on an 
enterprisewide level, which subscriptions would be most 
beneficial to your committee?
    Mr. Graves. Going back to what I was mentioning earlier, 
too, we obviously have to--with some of that software, there 
comes a subscription with that as well, and then obviously 
keeping up with everything that goes on in the, you know, 
entire transportation industry and what goes along with that.
    Updating that software is probably the biggest thing when 
we talk about updating. The subscriptions that tie into that is 
just like the HOPS software that goes along with tracking 
salaries and leave and everything that goes with that. It 
requires a subscription as well, not just the initial cost of 
the software.
    Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, at this point, that is all 
the questions I have.
    I now recognize Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Good afternoon, Chairman Graves, and Ranking 
Member Larsen. Thanks for being here. Thanks for all you do.
    Just a couple of really quick questions.
    We asked a couple of Chairs about this. In the last 
Congress, when it came to field hearings and scheduling them 
and coordinating them, there was a sort of system developed 
that includes the Sergeant at Arms, the Capitol Police, and the 
Clerk's Office for purposes of court reporters, Chief 
Administrative Officer, office responsible for broadcasting, 
live-streaming, et cetera.
    Do you intend to continue to use that system, which we 
think saved a fair amount of time and money? Do you expect to 
utilize that, sir?
    Mr. Graves. I fully do and you know, we haven't done a lot. 
In fact, all of us in Congress, we haven't done a whole lot of 
travel the last couple of years, obviously because of COVID and 
the pandemic. You know, we are going to do a lot of travel with 
this committee, and just simply because the travel itself is, 
you know, is part of our jurisdiction, you know, the biggest 
part of our jurisdiction overall, but we intend--absolutely. We 
intend to utilize the same system----
    Mr. Morelle. Very good.
    Mr. Graves [continuing]. that we had in the past.
    Mr. Morelle. I appreciate the fact that you've agreed on 
the allocation of the split between the majority and minority. 
In your written submission, you indicated that the minority 
would not have any impediments to using their allocation. I 
assume you are going to continue to commit to that, sir?
    Mr. Graves. Yes. Yes. We don't have a problem at all with--
you know, and we can adjust that, too, if we need to, but Rick 
and I have a pretty good relationship.
    Mr. Morelle. Good.
    Mr. Larsen, you feel confident that you will continue to 
have access to your resources, and you are comfortable with the 
allocations?
    Mr. Larsen. Yes. The allocation is a traditional allocation 
for this committee. I can't speak to other committees. It is 
traditional for this committee, and I don't know of any 
circumstance in my 22 years in Congress where the existing 
majority tried to grab into the minority's allocation. I have 
no concern at all about that.
    I will take Chair Graves' offer to increase that allocation 
that he just said at any time, so--but yes.
    Mr. Morelle. You are willing to accept that?
    Mr. Larsen. I would be willing to deign to accept that, 
absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, very good. I appreciate both of you 
being here, for the good work that you do.
    With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
    The Chairman.
    [Presiding.] Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, thank 
you both for coming before us today. This, today's hearing, 
before our markup next week, is really our commitment to 
returning to regular order in the House and restoring 
transparency to the American people, and appreciate both of 
your testimony here today. Have a good day.
    Mr. Larsen. Thank you, Chair.
    Mr. Graves. Thanks, Chairman and Ranking Member.
    The Chairman. The committee is going to stand in recess 
subject to the call of the Chair.
    [Recess.]
    The Chairman. The Committee on House Administration is 
called back to order.
    We thank Chairman Lucas for joining us here today on a busy 
day. This is our commitment to returning to regular order, to 
improving transparency for the American people and particularly 
budget requests that this hearing is about and the markup that 
will take place next week.
    We will recognize you, Mr. Chairman, for 5 minutes, for 
opening remarks. I will have 5 minutes for both the majority 
and the minority in total to ask questions, and we will make it 
to votes before those are wrapped up.
    With that Mr. Chairman, I yield to you 5 minutes for an 
opening statement.

   STATEMENT OF THE HON. FRANK D. LUCAS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN 
              CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

    Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking 
Member and members of the committee.
    I appreciate this opportunity to discuss the funding for 
the Science Committee today. Before I begin, I would like to 
commend the chairman for restarting the formal budget process. 
I am a strong proponent of regular order, and I believe this 
process will pay off with increased transparency and more 
efficient spending.
    Unfortunately, my Ranking Member, Congresswoman Zoe 
Lofgren, couldn't join us today, but let me assure you this is 
a bipartisan request we are submitting today.
    For the record, I would like to submit comments from the 
ranking member of the Science Committee.
    The Chairman. Without objection.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]
    
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    Mr. Lucas. Thank you. Let me say right off the bat that our 
committee's request budget does contain some thoughtful 
considered increases. It is our aim to act responsibly when it 
comes to spending taxpayers' dollars, which is why these 
increases have been limited to only what is absolutely 
necessary.
    Our priorities include funding a robust oversight program, 
resources for increased field hearings and site visits, 
modernization of our workspace, and modest increases in staff 
salaries to meet--to be--stay competitive with personnel 
offices in the private sector.
    All told, our budget increase calls for a 23.5-percent 
increase over last year. When considering that request, it is 
worth noting that our personal offices received a 21-percent 
increase in their MRAs last Congress. Standing committees 
received significantly less in order to fund multiple select 
committees.
    It is also important to note that the Science Committee's 
responsibilities have grown dramatically over the past few 
years. The purpose of the Science Committee is to ensure that 
the United States maintains our global economic, scientific, 
and technological leadership. That work is more important now 
than ever as we face a growing threat from the Chinese 
Communist Party.
    If given the chance, the CCP would not only take market 
share from us but will also seek to impose their values on 
critically developing technologies like artificial 
intelligence, quantum information sciences, unmanned aerial 
vehicles. We cannot afford the economic, political, or national 
security consequences of falling behind the CCP.
    In addition to driving American innovation and countering 
the threat from the CCP, our committee is tasked with providing 
oversight for a substantial portion of the science agencies to 
protect taxpayers' resources and ensure that we are meeting our 
strategic goals.
    Since the budget for this committee was last set, there has 
been a significant increase in the importance of and scope of 
our policy area. Several major legislative initiatives, 
including the Energy Act of 2020, the CHIPS and Science Act, 
the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Infrastructure Investment 
& Jobs Act, dramatically increased the budgets of departments 
and agencies under our supervision.
    For example, in addition to the committee's regular 
oversight of roughly $15 billion in annual appropriations at 
the Department of Energy, we will now be overseeing an 
additional $45 billion in appropriations included in the IRA 
and the IIJA. There are plenty more examples just like this. 
The National Institutes of Standards and Technology, an agency 
with an annual budget of around a billion dollars, received $52 
billion in mandatory funding in the CHIPS and Science Act to 
support domestic semiconductor manufacturing.
    This increase in spending across our agencies must be 
accomplished by an increase--I should say accompanied by an 
increase in congressional oversight. To do this, we need 
additional policy staff with expertise in highly technical 
issue areas, such as quantum computing, fusion energy, advanced 
air mobility, and climate sciences. The competitive jobs market 
for these roles, combined with higher cost of living, mean the 
committee must increase our payroll budget if we are going to 
find staff capable of fulfilling our expanded oversight 
responsibilities.
    I am looking forward to a productive year ahead as the 
Science Committee empowers American innovation and ensures 
taxpayers are getting the maximum return on their investments 
in research and development.
    I appreciate your time today and as you notice, I am 
attempting to be very prompt, and look forward to answering 
your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Lucas follows:]
    
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    The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
    We will now take 5 minutes from the majority and then 5 for 
the minority for the purpose of asking questions.
    I will yield to Ms. Bice for 5 minutes.
    Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say thank you 
to my fellow Oklahoman and Chairman of the SST Committee, 
Congressman Lucas, for being here this afternoon.
    Congressman, what impact has the increase in the speaker's 
pay order in the 117th Congress and the competitive job market 
for staff with knowledge and expertise in the highly technical 
issue areas that we have to oversee in SST had on the personnel 
portion of the committee's budget?
    Mr. Lucas. Well, it has had a big impact, and it is the big 
reason that we are requesting an increase in our budget 
payroll. The changes to the Speaker's pay order and the 
significant increase in personal office MRAs last Congress has 
undoubtedly shifted upward the pay scale across all levels of 
Capitol Hill, and this is a good thing.
    For us to be competitive in hiring and recruiting the staff 
necessary to enact our agenda, we have got to follow suit, and 
we have to increase our staff salaries if we are going to have 
competent people.
    Mrs. Bice. Do you believe that is because of the technical 
expertise that these individuals need to have to be able to 
provide----
    Mr. Lucas. Absolutely.
    Mrs. Bice [continuing]. information to the committee?
    Mr. Lucas. Many of the disciplines that we deal with in the 
Science Committee are very challenging, complex, hard sciences. 
There is only a limited number of people available, and they 
are the kind of people that industry and the administration 
looks for, too. We have got to have folks who can work with us 
to ask the right questions, to look in the right corners. If we 
don't spend the money, we are not going to get them, and then 
we won't have effective oversight. We spend a lot of money that 
we need to make sure it is well spent.
    Mrs. Bice. Thank you.
    In the answers to the budget questionnaire, you mentioned 
that the committee is in the process of researching and 
procuring document management software and have budgeted 
$80,000 for each session for this purpose.
    Are you looking to buy an off-the-shelf program, or is this 
custom-made software?
    Mr. Lucas. Staff is still doing the research, but I would 
anticipate off the shelf. I want to have an effective program 
to deal with this mountain of information coming and going, but 
by the same token, I think off the shelf is--if it is 
available, is the most cost-effective route. We don't need to 
create something special for the Science Committee.
    Mrs. Bice. For the record, I agree.
    Mr. Chairman, that is the end of my questioning. I yield 
back.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much.
    The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, 
for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Morelle. Thanks so much.
    Thank you, Chairman Lucas, for being here. I appreciate 
your comments about the expanded work that the committee will 
have to do.
    I had the privilege of debating the rule on the CHIPS and 
Science Act. Grateful that it passed, and we have a great deal 
of work to do both from a national and economic security point 
of view, and your committee is going to have a lot of 
responsibility for that.
    Just a couple of things that you could help me better 
appreciate. I know, in the--first of all, the overall increase 
from the 117th to 118th Congresses, I did the fast math. It is 
about a third of an increase, about 33-percent increase over 
the 2-year period. When you sort of look at it, obviously fair 
amount of that is in personnel. Is it an increase in terms of 
the number--the census of workers, or do you expect a dramatic 
increase because of the type of people you are looking for will 
require higher compensation?
    Mr. Lucas. I would say it is a combination of both, but the 
most dramatic thing will just simply be the quality of 
individuals that we have to have. We have outstanding people 
now. Maintaining their position on the committee staff and 
their enthusiasm will be important, too.
    When you have literally the amount of dollars that have 
been allocated and are flowing through the Department of Energy 
and other Federal agencies, being able to oversee all of that, 
my personal perspective, as I have mentioned to the various 
members of the committee, is CHIPS and Science is an example of 
where we made a dramatic commitment of resources in Congress to 
boldly step forward in a direction that we were falling behind 
in. Whether it is AI or quantum, there are a variety of other 
things out there that may require this sort of an effort in the 
future, perhaps near future, but in the future.
    I want to demonstrate that we were wise and efficient 
stewards of the citizens' resources with CHIPS and Science as 
an example because then they will trust us when we have to do 
something big and bold again. If we don't do that work, they 
might not ever give us the chance again when we really 
desperately would need it to move forward aggressively.
    Mr. Morelle. Thank you for that.
    I notice too that you have about 300,000 in the budget--
300--I thought it was about 300,000. I am looking for it, but 
in any way--case, correct me if I am wrong on field hearings, 
but I didn't see any hearings actually scheduled.
    When do you anticipate having sort of an idea of where you 
will go for field hearings?
    Mr. Lucas. When I have a better feel for the resources that 
will be available to me----
    Mr. Morelle. Well, let's assume that it was as you 
requested.
    Mr. Lucas. We have a myriad of national labs scattered all 
across the country that--some of which have existed since the 
1930's. Going and seeing them and addressing their 
infrastructure needs, the challenges they face. We have a 
variety of regular department research programs from Department 
of Energy on down going on. We have a number of universities, 
institutions are doing cutting-edge research.
    Taking the members out in the field to see what is going 
on, to learn what the priorities should be, to verify the use 
of the resources, the committee is essentially brand new 
membershipwise, and help bringing our people up to speed, both 
Republicans and Democrats, is critically important.
    That is part of why I am so pleased with the relationship I 
had with my predecessor, Chairman Johnson, and now working 
wonderfully with my Ranking Member Lofgren. We are going to do 
this as a team.
    Mr. Morelle. Well, as one of the people who is a 
particularly big booster of the regional innovation hubs, I am 
hoping to maybe invite you up to----
    Mr. Lucas. Absolutely.
    Mr. Morelle [continuing]. Upstate New York. We would love 
to have you.
    One other--two quick matters, but one is, under what is 
called ``other services,'' I was looking--there is no further 
description in the chart. A big increase from 13,000 to 
170,000. Can you just tell me essentially what that is for? Do 
you know?
    I am trying to look in the detail. I don't necessarily see 
it. Nonspecialized training went up 75,000; and other services, 
an additional 82,000, it looks like to me.
    It is primarily for IT? Yes. It looks like it is primarily 
web support and IT. Is that your understanding?
    Mr. Lucas. That would be the logical response, yes.
    Voice. It is for the minority, I believe.
    Mr. Morelle. Okay. Then one--and I apologize. I just--one 
last question. I didn't see it in the written material, but 
typically I have been asking the chairs whether or not, given 
the allotment, two-thirds/one-third, whether or not you will 
commit to allowing the minority access to their resources 
without impacting that?
    Mr. Lucas. Absolutely. The customary relationship. I had a 
wonderful one as Ranking Member for 4 years with Chairwoman 
Johnson. I intend to have a wonderful one with Ranking Member 
Lofgren.
    Mr. Morelle. Great. Thanks so much for your service, sir.
    Mr. Lucas. We work together on the committee.
    Mr. Morelle. Yep. Yep. Thank you for being here.
    I yield back.
    The Chairman. Thank you very much for your testimony today, 
Mr. Lucas. I appreciate you being part of our commitment to 
reestablishing regular order and transparency.
    Without objection, each member, including our witnesses, 
will have 5 legislative days to insert additional materials 
into the record or to revise and extend their remarks.
    If there is no further business, I thank the members for 
their participation.
    Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 1:42 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]
    
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