    [House Hearing, 118 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                     PART 1: COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 118TH
                                    CONGRESS
    =======================================================================

                                    HEARING

                                   BEFORE THE

                               COMMITTEE ON HOUSE
                                 ADMINISTRATION

                            HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                               FEBRUARY 28, 2023

                                   __________

          Printed for the use of the Committee on House Administration

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

                                 www.govinfo.gov
                               www.cha.house.gov

                                    __________

                        U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
    53-181                        WASHINGTON : 2023

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                       Committee on House Administration

                        BRYAN STEIL, WISCONSIN, Chairman

    BARRY LOUDERMILK, Georgia            JOSEPH MORELLE, New York,
    H. MORGAN GRIFFITH, Virginia              Ranking Member
    GREG MURPHY, North Carolina          TERRI A. SEWELL, Alabama
    STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             DEREK KILMER, Washington
    MIKE CAREY, Ohio                     NORMA TORRES, California
    ANTHONY D'ESPOSITO, New York
    LAUREL LEE, Florida

                            C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

                               Opening Statements

    The Honorable Bryan Steil, Chairman from the State of Wisconsin..     1
    The Honorable Joseph Morelle, Ranking Member from the State of
      New York.......................................................     2

                              Prepared Statements

    James Comer, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Kentucky.......................................................     3
    Jamie Raskin, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Maryland.......................................................     4
    Mike Bost, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Illinois.......................................................     8
    Mark Takano, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      California.....................................................     9
     Bruce Westerman, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Arkansas.......................................................    13
    Raul Grijalva, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Arizona........................................................    14
    Jodey C. Arrington, a Representative in Congress from the State
      of Texas.......................................................    17
    Brendan F. Boyle, a Representative from the State of Pennsylvania    19
    Tom Cole, a Representative in Congress from the State of Oklahoma    22
    James P. McGovern, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Massachusetts..................................................    23
    Jim Jordan, a Representative in Congress from the State of Ohio..    27
    Jerrold Nadler, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      New York.......................................................    28
    Virginia Foxx, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      North Carolina.................................................    35
    Robert C. "Bobby" Scott, a Representative in Congress from the
      State of North Carolina........................................    36
    Michael R. Turner, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Ohio...........................................................    39
    James A. Himes, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Connecticut....................................................    41
    Sam Graves, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Missouri.......................................................    45
    Rick Larsen, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Washington.....................................................    46
    Frank D. Lucas, a Representative in Congress from the State of
      Oklahoma.......................................................    49

                           Submission for the Record

    Prepared Statement for Zoe Lofgren, a Representative in Congress
      from the State of Oklahoma.....................................    49

                PART 1: COMMITTEE FUNDING FOR THE 118TH CONGRESS

                                  ----------

                           TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 28, 2023

             Committee on House Administration,
                              House of Representatives,
                                                        Washington, DC.

        The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:09 a.m., in
    room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bryan Steil
    [Chairman of the committee] presiding.
        Present: Representatives Steil, Loudermilk, Griffith,
    Murphy, Bice, Carey, D'Esposito, Lee, Morelle, Sewell, Torres,
    and Kilmer.
        Staff present: Tim Monahan, Staff Director; Caleb Hays,
    Deputy Staff Director, General Counsel, Acting Parliamentarian;
    Hillary Lassiter, Clerk; Janet Schwalb, Deputy Staff Director
    of Advice and Guidance; Nick Crocker, Deputy Staff Director;
    Jordan Wilson, Director of Member Services; Cade Alcock,
    Assistant Clerk; Jamie Fleet, Minority Staff Director; Khalil
    Abboud, Minority Chief Counsel; Matthew Schlesinger, Minority
    Oversight Counsel; Owen Reilly, Minority Legislative Assistant;
    Eddie Flaherty, Minority Chief Clerk; and Andrew Garcia,
    Minority Staff Assistant.
        The Chairman. The Committee on House Administration will
    come back to order.
        I note that a quorum is present.
        Without objection, the Chair may declare a recess at any
    time.
        I have been looking forward to these next 2 days of
    hearings because it is one of the most important and impact
    roles we have as a committee. These hearings present our
    commitment to oversight and transparency on behalf of the
    entire House.
        As members of Congress elected by the people for the
    people, it is our duty to be accountable to the people. We are
    tasked with being good stewards of taxpayer dollars to ensure
    Congress and each committee is working effectively for the
    American people.
        Committees are where so much critical work is accomplished.
    Each committee has a unique role to play in ensuring that
    Congress is serving all Americans, from factory workers to
    farmers to students to veterans to law enforcement to election
    administrators and our military. Committees also ensure we are
    exercising robust checks and balances on the other branches of
    government, like preventing the vaporization of Federal
    committees--Federal agencies.
        Our job over the next 2 days is to hear from both the Chair
    and Ranking Members of each committee on what resources they
    need to accomplish their respective goals. In keeping with our
    commitment to transparency, our process to fund committees will
    be conducted by restoring regular order, which this committee
    has not done since 2017.
        Today and tomorrow, each committee's Chair and Ranking
    Member will present their respective biennial funding requests.
    Our committee's role is to authorize and not appropriate. It is
    critically important to me that our review and approval process
    is completed with full candor.
        At the close of our hearing tomorrow, we will have provided
    the American taxpayer with more transparency on how Congress is
    spending their hard-earned money. We will continue our goal of
    being an open, accessible, and transparent committee, and we
    look forward to giving every other committee the platform to do
    the same through this process.
        Congress will be accountable to the American people.
        I now recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 5 minutes for
    the purpose of making an opening statement.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Chairman Steil, for your opening
    remarks and for convening this hearing.
        House rules require that this committee must report and the
    House must adopt a primary expense resolution to provide
    funding to most select and standing committees in each
    Congress. The funding process is a collaborative enterprise,
    and it has traditionally been the most bipartisan effort the
    Committee on House Administration undertakes.
        I would like to thank all of our committee Chairs and
    Ranking Members for working with us to allow this committee
    fulfill the obligations we are tasked with by the House rules.
    I would also like to note the work of the bipartisan House
    Administration staff who has been managing all this paper
    before us. Eddie Flaherty has led the effort on our team, and I
    would like to recognize as well Hillary Lassiter and Janet
    Schwalb from the Republican staff as well for their
    cooperation.
        Over the next few days, I look forward to continuing the
    discussion with the committee leadership before us on their
    oversight plans and budgets. I know that not everyone will get
    everything they want, but I am confident that we can work
    together to make sure everyone gets what they need to fulfill
    their responsibilities, and looking forward to this exercise,
    looking forward to the testimony and the discussion today and
    tomorrow and in the days ahead.
        With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. I thank the Ranking Member.
        Without objection, all other members' opening statements
    will be made part of the hearing record if they are submitted
    to the committee clerk by 5 p.m. today.
        Today, we will hear from the Chair and Ranking Member of 12
    committees, beginning with the Committee on Oversight and
    Accountability. For each panel, we will begin by recognizing
    the Chair for 5 minutes, followed by the Ranking Member.
        Then the majority and minority will each have 5 total
    minutes per side to question the witnesses, and I will keep the
    clock reasonably tight on that.
        I now welcome our first panel of witnesses: Chairman Comer
    and Ranking Member Raskin.
        As a reminder, we have read your entire written statement,
    and it will appear in full in the hearing record.
        Under committee Rule 9, you are to limit your oral
    presentation to a brief summary of your written statement
    unless I, in consultation with the Ranking Member, extend the
    time period.
        Please remember to press the button on the microphone in
    front of you so that it is on and members can hear you.
        When you begin to speak, a light in front of you will turn
    green. When the red light comes on, your 5 minutes have
    expired, and we ask you to please wrap up.
        I now recognize Chairman Comer for 5 minutes, followed by
    Ranking Member Raskin.
        Mr. Comer?

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES COMER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
                       FROM THE STATE OF KENTUCKY

        Mr. Comer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member, for
    holding this committee funding hearing today.
        Ranking Member Raskin and I are pleased to submit the House
    Oversight and Accountability Committee's budget request for the
    118th Congress.
        Our budget request seeks $29.9 million. If accepted, this
    is a modest increase of 2.5 percent, not adjusting for
    inflation. This is also a combined budget request. It will
    operate both the committee and the select subcommittee on the
    Coronavirus Pandemic.
        Ranking Member Raskin and the minority will receive 33
    percent of the budget and staff positions.
        Our committee's mission is to protect taxpayer dollars from
    fraud, waste, abuse, and mismanagement, and works to ensure the
    efficiency, effectiveness, and accountability of the Federal
    Government. Therefore, our budget request is an investment in
    oversight. It is an investment in skilled staff and a
    commitment to travel to conduct oversight.
        To conduct fulsome oversight and meaningful investigations,
    the committee needs skilled and experienced staff. The
    committee has recruited and continues to recruit staff with
    oversight expertise and diverse skill sets.
        Our proposed budget will allow the committee to not only
    recruit but retain legal and investigative staff to do our
    important oversight work.
        Our budget request anticipates 118 staff positions for the
    committee, both majority and minority, with an additional 15
    staff positions for the select subcommittee, for a total of 133
    staff positions.
        The committee and the Nation has returned to in-person
    work. Therefore, as part of our oversight mission, we will
    resume conducting a significant amount of oversight outside the
    Capital Beltway. The committee plans to hold five field
    hearings, perform site visits, and conduct investigative work
    in our states.
        Our Nation is a big, diverse Nation. To understand
    America's needs, priorities, and concerns, we must hear
    directly from them. By resuming previous levels of oversight
    travel, we will be able to better conduct robust oversight on
    behalf of the American people.
        Last, the committee's budget includes the select
    subcommittee's budget. The select subcommittee will be
    conducting essential oversight to understand the origins of the
    COVID-19 virus and lessons learned from our Federal
    Government's response to the pandemic. To conduct this
    oversight, the select subcommittee will need staff with
    specialized scientific and medical expertise.
        In closing, Ranking Member Raskin and I appreciate your
    consideration for our budget request. We also appreciate your
    commitment to our committee's oversight mission.
        We are looking forward to fulfilling this important mission
    during the 118th Congress.
        Thank you, and I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Comer follows:]

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        The Chairman. The Ranking Member is recognized.

        STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMIE RASKIN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MARYLAND

        Mr. Raskin. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Morelle, members
    of the committee, thank you for this opportunity to testify. It
    is an honor to be here in this committee, which I love and
    which I miss. I know you are in good hands with Chairman Steil
    and with my friend, Mr. Morelle, for the minority.
        Since the 115th Congress, I have served on the Oversight
    Committee, which had the broadest jurisdiction and arguably the
    most important mandate in the House: to ensure a transparent
    and responsive government accountable to the people.
        Accordingly, Chairman Comer and I are seeking a combined
    $29,923,637 for the 118th. This represents a modest increase in
    the budget of 2.5-percent without adjusting for inflation.
        I am pleased to report that the Chairman and I have reached
    an agreement regarding allocation of funding between the
    majority and minority of the committee, with the minority being
    allocated one-third of the budget and the majority being
    allocated the two-thirds, the customary practice.
        We are proud of the work of our committee. The role of
    oversight is----
        The Chairman. Ranking Member Raskin, if I could, I don't
    believe your mike is on, which is not being picked up, then, on
    the live feed----
        Mr. Raskin. Oh, I am sorry.
        The Chairman [continuing]. though I can hear you. Thank
    you.
        Mr. Raskin. I will just start again, then.
        Just briefly, Mr. Chairman, the role of our committee is to
    ensure that our government and laws would make our working
    effectively, efficiently, and equitably for the American
    people. To fulfill this mission, we need to recruit and retain
    experienced staff with a diverse set of skills and experience.
    The committee has an extremely hardworking staff which is
    passionate about public service and about the mission of the
    committee.
        The budget we have proposed and our agreed-upon allocation
    of funding will enable us to conduct the essential oversight
    work of the 118th Congress.
        Thank you for your time and consideration, and I stand
    ready with Chairman Comer to answer the questions you may have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Raskin follows:]

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you both.
        I now recognize myself for the purpose of questioning our
    witnesses.
        Chairman Comer, the Coronaries subcommittee from last
    Congress has been replaced in this Congress with the Coronaries
    Pandemic subcommittee.
        Could you give insight as to how the new subcommittee will
    differ in its mission and purpose from the last Congress?
        Also, what official resources does the subcommittee need to
    properly fund and operate?
        Mr. Comer. It is going to be--we are asking for the exact
    same budget that the committee had in the previous Congress. I
    think, this Congress, we are going to be focused more on the
    origination of COVID-19, as well as trying to focus more on the
    grant process that was used to fund different types of
    coronaries research.
        The Chairman. Mr. Chairman, if I can, the microphones--
    although with can hear each other, I think, just fine, I know
    the folks----
        Mr. Comer. Got it. Okay.
        The Chairman [continuing]. involved in the live feed----
        Mr. Comer. Yes.
        The Chairman [continuing]. are interested in hearing you as
    well.
        Mr. Comer. Basically, it is the same budget as the previous
    Congress. The mission, though similar, will focus more on the
    origination of COVID-19, as well as the--we will examine the
    tax dollars that were potentially used for gain-of-function
    research, any type of coronaries research.
        We are also going to look at the vaccines, you know,
    anything post-COVID now. I think a lot of what the committee
    was focused on prior to this Congress was pre and current
    COVID. We are going to be looking a lot on post-COVID, learn
    from mistakes. We are going to try to determine the extent of
    the American investment in COVID, not just in--in potential
    research, in origination type things, but as well as, you know,
    hopefully learning from mistakes moving forward.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        I think many Americans are interested in the work of the
    subcommittee and appreciate your focus on that.
        Let me shift from the big picture, if I can, into a little
    bit more of the mundane because I think it is important to this
    committee as we think about the use of taxpayer dollars.
        The Committee on Oversight and Accountability currently
    uses a document management system called Concordance. Not sure
    how familiar you are with this, but curious if you have insight
    as to how effective the software is in managing the committee's
    documents and if it is a software that is easy to use and
    maintain.
        One of the things we are often looking for is shared
    services, ways to better leverage the purchasing power of the
    House. Curious if you could give us a little insight into your
    experience with this program.
        Mr. Comer. Yes. The Concordance software, it is difficult
    to use. It is costly and difficult to train staff on how to
    use. We would like to use a more robust software package, but
    they are cost-prohibitive on the current committee budget.
    These other packages are more user friendly and have better
    systems in place to organize and search documents and
    production. That is a challenge for us.
        The Chairman. Thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate
    that. I know that is kind of in the weeds, but it is one of the
    things that we are looking at this committee, is where we can
    leverage shared services to better provide services to all
    committees and protect taxpayers.
        Appreciate your time. Appreciate both of you being here. We
    miss you, Ranking Member Raskin, from serving on this
    committee. Maybe you will be able to return at some point in
    the future.
        I now will yield and recognize Ranking Member Morelle for
    the purpose of asking questions.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you to you, Chairman Comer, for being here.
        Mr. Raskin and I spent 4 quality years on the Rules
    Committee together, so I miss spending all that time with you,
    but nice to see you, Ranking Member.
        I want to just begin by checking in relative to the
    allocation by--to the minority. I know the committee is
    generally now splitting two-thirds/one-third, with some small
    exceptions. I understand you are in agreement with the
    proposal.
        I just want to confirm that, if granted, the minority will
    have unrestricted access to the resources they need, Mr.
    Chairman?
        Mr. Comer. We agreed to the two-thirds/one-third, yes.
        Mr. Morelle. Yes, but beyond that, just to make sure that--
    confirm that they will have unrestricted access to the research
    that they need within that one-third?
        Mr. Comer. Yes. Yes, absolutely.
        Mr. Morelle. Very good. Very good.
        To you Mr. Raskin, are you confident that you have reached
    an agreement which will allow you access to the dollars you
    need within the context of the budget agreement?
        Mr. Raskin. Yes. Within the two-third/one-third split, I
    have every confidence.
        Mr. Morelle. Very good.
        Mr. Raskin. The Chairman will honor that and if he wants to
    make it more like 60/40, that is also----
        Mr. Morelle. I will leave that to you. Thank you.
        I yield back, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        I thank both the Chairman and the Ranking Member for your
    testimony and for appearing before us today.
        Mr. Griffith. Mr. Chairman?
        The Chairman. Thank you very much. The testimony has been
    helpful.
        Mr. Griffith. Am I allowed to ask questions?
        The Chairman. Yes. We have time remaining if the Chair and
    Ranking Member do. I will yield to Mr. Griffith for----
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. For his asking questions.
        Mr. Griffith. Mr. Chairman Comer----
        Mr. Comer. Yes, sir?
        Mr. Griffith [continuing]. I see that you are getting 15
    additional staffers. I am not sure that is enough for you all.
    I note that E&C is only getting eight. We have some overlap. I
    am just wondering if you think that you might need a little bit
    more? I certainly believe that E&C probably needs some more
    with all the oversight that we need to do. Would you agree with
    that?
        Mr. Comer. Yes. There is a lot of oversight needed in this
    town, no shortage of oversight demand. We could get into an
    argument over how much oversight was provided previously in the
    last 2 years of this administration.
        Regardless, we would love to have more, but I am pretty
    confident we will be able to manage on what we have. We have--
    we have requested a lot of information, and hopefully some of
    this information will start coming in. We--it is--I don't think
    this administration understands oversight yet and that is our
    role.
        Not just the Oversight committee, but Energy and Commerce
    and every other committee has oversight jurisdiction. So we are
    ready to go, and--but I am confident that we will be able to
    manage. It would always be nice to have more staff.
        Mr. Griffith. Further, Mr. Chairman Comer, I would just
    suggest that--and I am sure they are already doing it--your
    team talk with Alan Slobodin of the Energy and Commerce
    oversight team. He has done tremendous work on origins and----
        Mr. Comer. Absolutely.
        Mr. Griffith [continuing]. has a lot of holes and a lot of
    questions.
        Mr. Comer. Yes. Yes, absolutely. A lot of good stuff coming
    out now, so----
        Mr. Griffith. Yes.
        Mr. Comer. More to come, I am sure.
        Mr. Griffith. I appreciate it and yield back. Thank you,
    Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Comer. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much. I--again, I appreciate
    the time of the Ranking Member and the Chair for coming before
    us. Your testimony was helpful.
        Wish you a good day.
        Mr. Comer. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you.
        Mr. Comer. Thank you all.
        The Chairman. We will pause while our next witnesses
    arrive.
        We will reconvene.
        I would like to welcome Chairman Bost and Ranking Member
    Takano of the Committee on Veterans' Affairs. As a reminder, we
    have read your written statement, and we ask that you limit
    your testimony to 5 minutes.
        We are going to dive right in, and I will now recognize
    Chairman Bost for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. MIKE BOST, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
                       FROM THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

        Mr. Bost. Alright. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking
    Member Morelle, for the opportunity to discuss the Committee on
    Veterans' Affairs' budget for the 118th.
        Ranking Member Takano and I, who joins me here, we have
    submitted our funding request for the 118th Congress per your
    committee's guidance. As you know, the committee has oversight
    over--of the entire Department of Veterans Affairs, various
    programs serving veterans at the Department of Labor and
    Defense, Arlington National Cemetery, and our overseas
    cemeteries, as well as all other matters, all to ensure that
    the VA is meeting their mission for the over 9 million
    veterans, their families, and their survivors they serve every
    single day.
        VA is the second largest Federal agency and the largest
    integrated healthcare system in the country, employing over
    380,000 people with a budget of $303 billion this fiscal year.
        Now, since 2017, the VA has seen a budgetary growth of over
    $120 billion and employees' growth of nearly 20,000. To put
    that in perspective, the number of employees added to the VA
    workforce in the last 6 years alone is roughly the equivalent
    of three times the population of my hometown in Murphysboro,
    Illinois. So, needless to say, oversight of such a vastly
    growing government agency is critical.
        Ensuring effective stewardship of taxpayer dollars is
    essential for the delivery of care and services to our
    veterans, and wasting of those dollars is unacceptable. We owe
    it to our veterans and taxpayers to ensure VA is making marked
    progress regarding veterans' access to healthcare; wait times
    at the hospitals and clinics; proper use of the MISSION Act;
    and the backlog of disability claims; implementation of the
    electronic health record and, more recently, the implementation
    of the PACT Act.
        To accomplish this mission, the committee needs essential
    talented staff with experience. Accordingly, we requested a 4-
    percent increase in the committee's annual personnel budget for
    2024. Realizing that the size of the primary agency the
    committee oversees, I hope we can all agree that it is a modest
    investment to make.
        At this time, we are not requesting additional resources
    for the committee travel and equipment needs. We, with the
    current budget allotted for the travel and committee, have
    independently been able to conduct vitally important
    investigations of whistle-blower complaints at various VA
    facilities across the country.
        These investigations are essential for the establishment
    and establishing an accurate picture of what is happening on
    the ground relative to what we are being told here in D.C.
        Mr. Chairman, you have my assurance that we will continue
    to account for and stretch every dollar afforded us as we meet
    and exceed the expectations placed upon us, but my humble
    request of you and the Ranking Member and the members of the
    committee is that we build on the oversight successes we made
    in recent years with the small addition to the personnel budget
    that I have previously mentioned.
        Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today,
    and I know that Mr. Takano will make--say more on the
    bipartisan work that the committee has done together and what
    we plan to accomplish this Congress for the veterans and their
    families.
        I would be glad to answer any questions when Mr. Takano has
    finished his remarks.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Bost follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman Bost.
        Now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Takano.

      MARK TAKANO, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF
                               CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Takano. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking Member
    Morelle, for having us here today to talk about the budget for
    the House Committee on Veterans' Affairs in the 118th Congress.
        Our committee was one of the busiest last Congress. Working
    together, we have had some remarkable achievements. We have
    passed 83 bills out of the House, and 36 of those became law,
    the second most of any House committee.
        Chief among these achievements is what we--is that we
    upheld our promise to take care of toxic exposed veterans,
    delivering long overdue benefits and care to over 3.5 million
    veterans.
        We made progress in addressing veteran suicide. We worked
    to improve veteran economic well-being by addressing the root
    causes of homelessness and enhanced the access to educational
    opportunities. We also began the overdue work to bring equity
    to underserved veteran populations.
        While we have much to be proud of, there is still much work
    to be done. I thank the members and committee staff who worked
    with me on these efforts and who made these accomplishments
    possible.
        The work to improve care and services for veterans will
    always be a constant, and the committee has also the important
    responsibility of overseeing the implementation of the laws
    that were enacted last Congress. One thing that underscores our
    work is that much of it is bipartisan.
        Certainly Chairman Bost and I have our policy
    disagreements, and I--but I believe that we and our staff have
    worked productively over the last 4 years, and I expect that
    spirit of cooperation of bipartisanship to continue this
    Congress.
        Chairman Bost and I have agreed to this budget request, and
    I believe it will allow us to continue our important work. Our
    mandate is to ensure that those who have worn the uniform of
    this country receive the benefits they are owed and to oversee
    the second largest department in the Federal Government. We do
    this work as one of the smallest standing committees of the
    House. If we want to meet that mandate, we have to have the
    funding to hire and retain excellent staff who understand the
    complexities of veterans' issues.
        We also need a budget which supports robust oversight
    travel so both staff and members get out into the field to
    assess all aspects of VA's operations, including more than
    1,200 sites of care spread across the United States, its
    territories, and the Philippines.
        I want to note that past practice in our committee has been
    the funding for salaries allocated according to the traditional
    two-thirds/one-third division. However, the rest of the funding
    has been drawn from both majority and minority staff, including
    for travel and equipment.
        We did not quibble over spending requests, and equipment
    and travel requests approved by the Republican staff director
    were approved by the Democratic staff director. I think we have
    operated from a place of mutual respect for each other and with
    the goal of ensuring staff that we have what they need to get
    the job done.
        The internal budgeting process has reflected this approach
    so far, and I thank Chairman Bost for continuing in that
    spirit.
        How Congress chooses to allocate funding should be
    demonstrative of our values. Our commitment must be to ensure
    that we continue to do more for veterans than say simply
    ``Thank you for your service.'' Adequately funding our
    committee is an important part of that commitment.
        I thank you for your consideration of our work and this
    funding request. I am happy to answer any questions you may
    have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Takano follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you very much, Ranking Member.
        Each side will have 5 total minutes for questions.
        For purposes of the majority's time, I am going to yield to
    Mr. Griffith for purposes of asking questions.
        Mr. Griffith. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        In your budget request, you stated that you are requesting
    an increase in personnel compensation for the second session of
    the 118th Congress to retain up to 42 experienced employees in
    order to effectively oversee the VA, the second largest Federal
    agency.
        What challenges have you faced in recruiting and retaining
    staff with the expertise and knowledge that your committee
    needs to function effectively?
        Mr. Bost. Well, thank you, Mr. Griffith, for that excellent
    question. You know, experts in veterans policy can be hard to
    find, so we want to ensure that both sides have enough money to
    adequately compensate staff and retain them. That is the tough
    thing, is to be able to keep the competent staff that we have.
        Mr. Griffith. Also, last year, you spent over 100,000 on
    travel, and now you are requesting 150,000 for travel for both
    sessions of the 118th Congress. Is committee travel an
    essential part of your committee's oversight responsibilities?
        Mr. Bost. Yes, it is. We travel for general site visits. We
    also hold field hearings to get a true idea of what is
    happening on the ground. That is really our job to do that. We
    also need to use the budget to travel to VA facilities at the
    drop of a hat when things go wrong because, if you wait 5
    minutes, you think there is nothing going on; 5 minutes from
    now, it will have then happened. I also want to--I needed to
    anticipate the travel that is going to increase because we are
    now gone from COVID, and we need to get out to those locations.
        Mr. Griffith. Alright. Let me say, I do think that is
    important, Mr. Chairman, because, before redistricting, I had a
    veterans hospital in my district. Now it is a few miles outside
    of my district. When I go to visit, I always learn things and
    things that we probably ought to be doing here to make things
    better at the various hospitals.
        Mr. Bost. We have got to be in the field to make sure that
    things are being done right.
        Mr. Griffith. Yes, I appreciate that. Mr.----
        Mr. Bost. Thank you.
        Mr. Takano. Mr. Griffith, might I just add one thing?
        Mr. Griffith. Yes.
        Mr. Takano. Chairman Bost and I have both shared a concern
    over the electronic health records we have--and, you know,
    Chairman Roe, when Phil Roe was the chair, he established a
    special--we established a fifth subcommittee related to--we
    call it the Technology Modernization Committee. We need--
    finding people who have that expertise in computer technology,
    in electronic health records, as you might imagine, trying to
    pay salaries that are competitive is difficult.
        This is, I think, a good example to share with you in terms
    of just the struggles and the challenges we face in that area.
        Mr. Griffith. I appreciate it.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back to you, and I assume
    we are going to reserve the rest of the time in case you have
    questions.
        The Chairman. Absolutely. Reserve the balance of the
    majority's time, and I will yield to the ranking member for the
    purpose of asking questions for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Thank you to Chairman Bost and Ranking Member Takano. I
    note that Mrs. Torres and I were members of the Rules Committee
    in the last session, and the two of you appeared several times
    in front of us. Appreciate all the work that you did on behalf
    of our Nation's veterans, and I know there is a lot of work
    left to do. Appreciate you both being here.
        I want to just ask a question I will ask throughout the
    day, which is: Relative to the agreement you have struck, Mr.
    Chair, do you anticipate giving unrestricted access to the
    resources the minority has allocated to it?
        Mr. Bost. Yes. That has always been the bipartisan way that
    we have handled the committee in the past. It has always--we
    have always taken great pride in the fact that it is
    bipartisan. We know that the oversight and the things that we
    need to do, both our staff and their staff, whether minority or
    majority, needs to be in the field, needs to have the oversight
    that we have been assigned, so that we can do it in a way--it
    is really about the veterans and making sure that the services
    are being provided. It is not about whether--what letter is
    behind your name.
        Mr. Morelle. I appreciate it very much.
        Mr. Takano, are you confident that you will have access to
    the resources, or are you comfortable with that?
        Mr. Takano. I am comfortable. I am comfortable with that.
    My relationship with the chairman, I think, has been one of
    mutual respect. Certainly in the 4 years that I held the
    chairmanship, we have accorded every courtesy in terms of
    budget requests and travel requests from when Chairman Bost led
    the minority.
        I fully expect reciprocation. I don't have any indication
    otherwise, and we--I have great confidence that this
    relationship will continue.
        Mr. Morelle. Very good.
        I do note you have a pretty active hearing schedule, we had
    as one of the exhibits here. Appreciate that.
        I am not sure--I see a couple of Wisconsin hearings. I am
    sure that has nothing to do with the Chairman of our committee.
    If you find yourselves looking for another place, we would love
    to have you in Upstate New York as well.
        I would like to ask--I know that, in the last Congress,
    there was an effort that this committee helped put together
    across House officer teams for field hearings, established that
    the Sergeant of Arms coordinate with Capitol Police, and there
    is a series of agencies that come together and help facilitate.
        Will you utilize that process? Are you aware of it, and
    will you utilize it?
        Mr. Bost. We will--it is the same process by which we have
    done before, and, you know, we have got to make sure, when we
    have our hearings, they are secure.
        Mr. Morelle. Yes.
        Mr. Bost. That is just a natural act, no matter what group
    is there. We hope that there are not people that would do us
    harm while we are out, but we always want to make sure that
    security is done.
        Mr. Morelle. I think it also uses the Clerk's Office for--
    to make sure that there are court reporters, broadcasting----
        Mr. Bost. That is correct.
        Mr. Morelle [continuing]. live-streaming, et cetera. I
    would certainly be happy to know that you are using that
    system. I think it costs--it helps us keep costs down and helps
    make sure that they flow in a thoughtful way.
        Thank you for that. Appreciate you both being here.
    Appreciate the agreement, and appreciate your good work.
        I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much. The gentleman yields
    back.
        Appreciate both of your guys' testimony here today,
    Chairman Bost and Ranking Member Takano. We appreciate that you
    are coming to Wisconsin, both to the Tomah facility, which has
    had challenges, so it is good that you are coming back there,
    but as well as your visit to Milwaukee.
        Appreciate the work you do in what is one of the most
    important committees in this House, to make sure that the men
    and women who have worn the United States military uniform have
    the resources, benefits that they earned while serving our
    country.
        With no further questions from either side, we thank you
    for your testimony today.
        Mr. Bost. Thank you, Chairman.
        The Chairman. Have a good afternoon.
        Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, we appreciate
    you being here today as we continue our commitment to regular
    order and accountability to the American taxpayers.
        For purposes of the hearing today, we are going to do 5
    minutes from both the Chair and the Ranking Member, and then 5
    minutes of questions total from each side of the dais.
        I will now recognize Chairman Westerman for the purposes of
    an opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

        Mr. Westerman. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle,
    thank you. Members of the committee, thank you for this
    opportunity to present the Committee on Natural Resources'
    budget request for the 118th Congress.
        I do recognize the challenging task that you have in
    allocating resources among committees and appreciate the
    opportunity to make the case for the Natural Resources
    Committee.
        First off, I want to talk about--about the committee,
    because I think there is--it is one of the most underknown or
    underappreciated committees in Congress. Our committee turns
    out a lot of work. We have got five subcommittees with
    jurisdiction over American energy and minerals, over insular
    and Tribal affairs, Federal lands and waters, wildlife and
    fisheries, as well as oversight of the Department of Interior
    and certain agencies within the Department of Commerce and
    Agriculture.
        We are one of the busiest committees in the House. During
    the 117th Congress, we were first among all standing committees
    with 124 bills reported. We had a total of 109 hearings, 21
    full committee markups. We also took our work to 46 different
    destinations across the U.S. and its territories. Yet, while we
    are at the top of the list for legislative activity and
    jurisdiction, spanning literally from the Arctic Circle to the
    Mariana Trench. We fall to number 11 amongst committees when it
    comes to funding levels.
        We are requesting a budget increase this year of roughly 9
    percent, and that is based on authorized level for 2022. What
    this increase will do will allow the committee to attract and
    retain talented staff to address our broad and unique
    jurisdiction, to fund robust--and a robust travel and field
    hearings agenda, oversight and educational site visits, and
    resign and modernize our communications platform, including our
    website.
        A top priority of the Natural Resources Committee in this
    Congress is to bring Congress to the people. When you think
    about the issues involving natural resources, this is something
    you really need to get outside the beltway with. We have
    already had a field hearing and a site--a field hearing in
    Odessa, Texas, and a site visit to New Mexico. we are planning
    to hold at least 10 to 15 more field hearings in each session
    of the 118th Congress.
        This is the area where we need increased funding to achieve
    these goals. This is also a year that the compacts in the South
    Pacific, which fall under the jurisdiction of our committee,
    are being renewed, and we need to spend some time at our
    territories in the South Pacific and down in those freely
    associated States.
        What we are asking for is a larger travel budget and a
    slight increase to be able to attract and retain high-quality
    staff members.
        You know, with that, I hope that you will have a favorable
    consideration, and I hope--I believe Ranking Member Grijalva
    can verify the work that we are trying to do.
        I will yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Westerman follows:]

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        The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairman Westerman.
        Ranking Member Grijalva is recognized for 5 minutes.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. RAUL GRIJALVA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                   CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and also thank the
    Ranking Member for the opportunity. I am pleased to be here
    with Chairman Westerman to ask for your support for the Natural
    Resources Committee budget for the 118th----
        The Chairman. Will the Ranking Member yield? Is your
    microphone on? I can hear you clearly, but I know our live feed
    may not.
        Mr. Grijalva. Is it on now? Shall I start over, or no?
        The Chairman. Please continue.
        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you.
        As the chairman mentioned, it is difficult to overstate the
    importance of the work of our committee. Our jurisdiction
    includes vital issues that go to the heart of so many of
    people's lives in this country. We oversee our people's public
    lands and waters, including conservation, recreation, and
    development, that multi-use mission of the committee. We are
    stewards of the very sovereignty of the Tribal Nations that we
    have and have been since before the Constitution.
        We have the responsibility of promoting self-determination
    and the well-being of U.S. territory and freely associated
    States. Those are important responsibilities, huge
    responsibilities of the committee that we collectively take
    very seriously. We are at the center of Federal efforts toward
    environmental justice, and we are a vital--and that concept has
    been made a vital component of any response to the climate
    crisis.
        Our committee oversees our national parks, wildlife
    refuges, fisheries, and other water resources in places of
    severe drought. We conduct oversight of the Endangered Species
    Act, the National Environmental Policy Act, and an array of
    other bedrock statutes.
        Over the last Congress, as the Chairman indicated, the
    committee and its staff were extremely productive. In the
    117th, we had about 893 measures referred to us, held 141
    official meetings, 21 full committee meetings, and filed 142
    committee reports. Our friends at Energy and Commerce were
    second with 79 reports, a little less than half of what we
    produced.
        All told, our committee has passed scores of bills out of
    the House, and 149 passed Senate and became law--149.
        In the recent Congress, we have consistently punched above
    our weight. Although Chairman Westerman and I have a degree of
    policy difference, to say the least, and we feel quite strongly
    in our positions and our philosophies toward that multiuse
    concept in our jurisdiction, we do agree on the importance of
    our shared work and that sustaining this level and the quality
    of activity requires a full roster of majority, minority, and
    nonpartisan staff.
        We want to attract and keep the best, and these skilled and
    dedicated public servants are needed now more than ever, and
    the resources help us retain and also bring into our personnel
    and into our professional ranks really, really good people that
    will serve the American people.
        I know that Chairman Westerman understands the importance
    of the resources for the minority. Having recently him being
    the Ranking Member in the previous Congress, we hope that the
    courtesies that we extended to each other as we move forward--
    there was a point in which the minority needed additional
    resources that we, as the majority, were glad to provide
    because we understand that this is a shared responsibility we
    have, and we will be bugging the Chairman to return the
    courtesy at some point, but that--your allocation to us will go
    a long way to the discussion.
        Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Grijalva follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. I thank the Ranking Member.
        The majority and minority will each now have 5 total
    minutes to ask questions.
        I will now yield to Mr. Carey for purpose of asking
    questions for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Westerman and Ranking Member Grijalva, really
    appreciate your testimony today.
        Also, I know, Mr. Chairman, you mentioned that this is one
    of those committees that a lot of people don't watch. I will
    tell you I spent 25 years watching the committee, sometimes
    with seeing the good things you did and sometimes not so good.
        One of the things that you mentioned in your questionnaire
    was that of field hearings and onsite educational opportunities
    and increased oversight visits are among some of your highest
    priorities.
        I would agree with that because I think it is very
    difficult for you doing what you are doing. When you are
    looking at critical minerals, when you are looking at our
    energy deposits, it really is important to be on the ground.
        What additional resources does your committee need in order
    to perform these important oversight functions?
        Mr. Westerman. That is a great question. I appreciate that.
        You know, first off, you need staff. You can't--to plan
    these hearings takes a lot of logistics and a lot of effort, so
    we need staff to be able to do all of the planning and to make
    the field hearings worthwhile.
        When we did the Odessa field hearing, we were able to take
    folks from the recording studio down there, which gave the
    hearing a much higher quality presentation.
        We also need the funding to do that. It kind of comes down
    to quality--the quality staff and funding, and those two also
    go hand-in-hand.
        Mr. Carey. I thank you for that, and I would agree with
    that.
        The other thing--and, Mr. Chairman, I think you were the
    one that mentioned--in your budget request, you mentioned that
    the Committee on House Administration's recent ``Running an
    Effective committee in the Majority'' series and new
    professional development programs offered by the CAO have been
    beneficial to your committee staff.
        What additional training would you like the committee or
    the COA to provide--or CAO to provide?
        Mr. Westerman. Yes, we have had staff take advantage of the
    CAO training, and I think that is very important when we
    don't--not only want to take quality staff in; we want to be
    able to develop those staff to even higher quality.
        The programs that CAO offered gives our staff the
    opportunity to do that, and I do appreciate the committee's
    emphasis on that and can say thank you from our committee for
    the opportunities for our staff to have professional
    development.
        Mr. Carey. Last question, and the Chairman, what are the
    challenges that you foresee for your committee during this
    118th Congress?
        Mr. Westerman. It is always a challenge when you are
    dealing with the issues that we are talking about inside a
    building here in D.C. to see the real effect that is happening
    out in the real world, and we are talking about mining. We are
    talking about oil and gas extraction. We are talking about
    fishing. We are talking about Tribal issues and forestry, and
    nothing takes the place of being out in the field, seeing what
    happens in real life.
        I know, as a forester, you can talk about it all you want
    in a room, but, when you are standing out in the forest and you
    are looking at poor management or good management, it will make
    the light bulb come on. It is a challenge for us on the
    educational side to make sure that we are making policy based
    on the best science and data and facts. The way to do that is
    to get out in the field and talk to people who are facing the
    issues every day.
        Mr. Carey. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate your
    comments and wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments.
        I yield back, Mr. Chairman
        The Chairman. Thank you very much. We reserve the balance
    of our time.
        I recognize the Ranking Member for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to you, Mr.
    Chairman; you, Mr. Ranking Member, for all of your hard work
    and your stewardship of the committee.
        Since you were talking about field hearings, I want to just
    get a sense--I asked this of the previous Chair and Ranking
    Member when they came in--within the last Congress, there was a
    system developed that coordinates Sergeant at Arms, Capitol
    Police, the Clerk's Office for purpose of court reporters, the
    Chief Administrative Officer around broadcasting and live-
    streaming, et cetera.
        Do you intend to use that system that has been developed to
    conduct your field hearings?
        Mr. Westerman. We do intend to use that like we did on the
    first field hearing that we did.
        Mr. Morelle. Very good. Just so I can be assured of this, I
    know--I appreciate the fact that you two have agreed on budget
    and distribution of resources.
        Mr. Chairman, do you expect that you will give unrestricted
    access to the resources that the minority has coming to them?
        Mr. Westerman. Yes. We have--tradition has been we divide
    the resources up two-thirds and one-third, and that is the plan
    to do that going forward.
        Mr. Morelle. Great, and so you commit to making sure that
    they have access to the resources that you have allocated for
    them?
        Mr. Westerman. Correct.
        Mr. Morelle. Yes. Mr. Ranking Member, are you confident
    that you will have access to the resources you need within the
    allocation?
        Mr. Grijalva. Yes. Yes, I do. I don't have a question about
    that. In my time on this committee, that has been a--if not a
    policy, a tradition that has happened without question, and I
    have full confidence that is going to occur.
        Mr. Morelle. Very good.
        I will yield back, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        I appreciate both of you being here with us today. It is
    our commitment to openness, to regular order, and to
    transparency. I appreciate your committee's commitment to a
    robust oversight agenda this Congress.
        Thank you for being with us today.
        Mr. Westerman. Thank you. Now we will go back to a hearing.
        The Chairman. We are going to continue with our hearing.
        I thank Chairman Arrington and Ranking Member Boyle for
    being with us today.
        Today is our continuation of being open and transparent to
    the American people and returning the House to regular order.
        We appreciate you being here.
        We are going to recognize both the Chairman and the Ranking
    Member for 5 minutes for the purpose of opening statements,
    followed by 5 total minutes of questions from both the minority
    and the majority before us.
        Chairman Arrington is now recognized for the purpose of
    making an opening statement.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. JODEY C. ARRINGTON, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM
                           THE STATE OF TEXAS

        Mr. Arrington. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Ranking Member
    Morelle. Appreciate y'all's leadership.
        We have to run our House responsibly, like every
    hardworking American. We talk a lot about getting our fiscal
    house in order. I appreciate that House operations go beyond
    just the resources and making sure that we are doing the right
    things the right way with the American people's resources. I
    appreciate the job that you all do to endeavor to that goal.
        I want to start by saying, Brendan Boyle is my Ranking
    Member, a friend and a colleague from our time on Ways and
    Means. We will have differences of opinion, sometimes wildly
    different. We will debate in a very robust way and hopefully a
    very thoughtful way. I am very excited about serving alongside
    of my Democrat colleague.
        Next I would like to address the issue at hand directly in
    terms of resources for our Budget Committee operations.
        I contend that the Budget Committee is an A committee
    because there is not a bigger problem to solve, there is not a
    greater challenge that we face as a Nation than our runaway
    spending, most of which is on auto-spend on the mandatory side,
    and this unsustainable fiscal path that our country is on. If
    we don't intervene, I think the outcome will be disastrous--and
    possibility irreparable--if it is a sovereign debt crisis.
        Whether it is a sovereign debt crisis or this slow economic
    demise of the greatest country and greatest economy in the
    world, we lose our influence in the world as a result, our
    ability to defend our homeland, our ability to provide security
    for our seniors, and the list goes on of laudable and righteous
    things that we do as a Nation for our fellow citizens. That all
    can be undone and undermined if we don't get our fiscal house
    in order.
        I would also say that Republicans have contributed their
    fair share to this irresponsible fiscal State of the Union.
    While I am definitely going to beat up on my Democrat
    colleagues and this President for the 5 trillion in additional
    deficit spending in just the last 2 years, I recognize that
    fiscal irresponsibility is not unique to one party or the
    other. If we see it any differently, we will never work
    together to solve this problem.
        The fact is that is the truth, but it is also the only way
    to get everybody in the boat and rowing, as I said earlier,
    away from the waterfall, the Niagara Falls of the fiscal cliff
    that we are heading to rapidly.
        To me, we have got a lot of good things that we can do for
    our country, a lot of very difficult decisions to make. All the
    easy decisions, Mr. Ranking Member, I think have been made, if
    there were any. We now have the tough decisions to make, and we
    need the best team and the best operation.
        We need to lead by example. My recommendation is that we
    don't increase our budget. I may come back next year and we may
    decrease it because we are going to have to cut spending, we
    are going to have to grow the economy, and we are going have to
    deal with the real debt drivers.
        I don't know how in the world--first principle of
    leadership, Mr. Boyle, where I come from in Texas, I bet your
    people in Pennsylvania feel the same way--first principle is
    you lead by example.
        We are in 2023 now, so let's just keep the 2023 budget at
    2022 levels. Let's keep the split the way it is. I think we are
    as generous to the minority as any committee, if not the most
    generous. That was tradition, not just our proposal.
        Let's try to make do with the moneys we have committed, and
    maybe we come back and look for ways to reduce that and
    continue on our great mission here to save the country from a
    debt crisis.
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman, thank you, Ranking Member, for the
    opportunity. With that, I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Arrington follows:]

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        The Chairman. The Ranking Member is recognized.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRENDAN F. BOYLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA

        Mr. Boyle. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking
    Member, as well as to the members of this committee.
        Let me first thank Chairman Arrington, my friend Jodey, for
    his leadership in developing our committee budget. I am proud
    to say that on this budget we agree. That might not extend to
    another budget that we will be debating, but on this budget we
    happen to agree.
        First, let me just point out to my Republican friends, you
    could not have made a better choice when it comes to your
    choice for Chair of the committee, a bright, hardworking,
    patriotic member of Congress, and I am proud to call him a
    friend.
        We will have good, principled, hopefully insightful
    debates. Then, ideally, we will arrive at the right decision,
    and hopefully in the end the American people will be better off
    for it. In the end, I know in his heart that is what he wants
    for our country, and that is what I want as well.
        In terms of the specifics for our budget on the Budget
    Committee, the majority will make one-third of the funding and
    resources available to the minority for personnel. That is
    exactly consistent with past practice. Also consistent with the
    past, the majority budget will continue to cover equipment for
    both staffs, ensuring the same quality and access for both
    majority and minority.
        We are in full agreement on a flat budget for this year. I
    happen to wish the committee had more funds to execute its
    responsibilities. With that said, I agree with the chairman
    that the funds that are being provided here will be sufficient.
        I have been fortunate enough, despite the fact that going
    from majority to minority obviously our side is taking the bulk
    of the hit, nonetheless we have been able to retain the
    entirety of the minority staff, with one unfortunate exception.
        I also want to credit my predecessor, Chairman Yarmuth, who
    strategically did not fill positions when they were becoming
    open and we had personnel who were retiring in order to be
    prepared in case we were to be in the minority. That advanced
    planning made this process a great deal easier.
        While I am thinking of it, I know Jodey would share in
    this, I want to thank Gary and Greg behind me, Gary Andres and
    Greg Waring, the Republican and Democratic staff directors,
    respectfully, who have done a wonderful job to date.
        I want to reiterate what an honor and privilege it is to
    serve as Ranking Member of the Budget Committee. I am hopeful
    that, despite our honest and principled policy differences, the
    Chairman and I will be able to find common ground on more than
    just our committee budget.
        With that, I will do something all too rare in this House,
    yield back the remainder of my time.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Boyle follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. We appreciate that. Also rare to see a budget
    request come in with a zero percent increase. We appreciate
    that as well.
        Chairman Arrington, you and I have had a chance to talk
    previously about kind of the broken budget process reform. You
    come in with a zero percent increase.
        One of the priorities that you set forward is really
    looking back at the budget process, coming forward with
    nonpartisan legislation as it relates to fixing the underlying
    process that continues to allow this institution to not get its
    job done.
        Do you think you have the resources you need to move
    forward with, I think, that really important priority under the
    budget you set forward today?
        Mr. Arrington. I think fixing the broken process, because
    fundamentally having systemic problems with the institution, or
    i.e., broken process, is very difficult to yield anything but
    broken outcomes.
        I am a big proponent of bipartisan process reforms. We
    started a group--we call it a caucus, it is actually not an
    official caucus--where we had at one time 30 Democrats and 30
    Republicans, Mr. Morelle, who looked at soup to nuts why and
    where this process breaks down so often, and we end up with a
    Four Corners massive spending bill that nobody feels good about
    in the end. I suspect Democrats don't feel any better than
    Republicans. Even if your pet projects on either side are
    buried in this spending, it is just not good business.
        I don't know another government in the world--we will look
    together at how other governments run--but I don't know a
    government in the world that has such a dysfunctional process.
        From the most benign sort of biennial budgets
    consideration, to fiscal State of the union in a bipartisan,
    bicameral way, to really shine a light for the American people
    on the math, not the different ways of fixing it from my view
    or my colleague's view, but just the mathematic reality, and
    some of the reality of the broken process, to debt targets,
    debt-to-GDP.
        I know Sheldon Whitehouse, who is chairing the Budget
    Committee in the Senate, is big on the debt-to-GDP targets with
    a glide slope down. I love that idea.
        I think there is a long list of things that we could
    propose. Scott Peters and I from San Diego, Democrat,
    introduced the Responsible Budget Act that would actually
    replace the debt ceiling with real debate over real reforms.
        I guess the bottom line is the American people see a lot of
    the conflict and contentiousness. What they may not see enough
    of, unfortunately, if they are watching cable news, is that we
    have a lot of common ground and consensus around making this
    process work better.
        Mr. Chairman, Mr. Ranking Member, I am totally committed.
    We are going to get through our budget resolution process early
    on and through this debt ceiling negotiation.
        Once we get further out into the open, it is going to be a
    great and satisfying endeavor to go with Brendan Boyle and my
    Democrat colleagues into the process and make those fundamental
    reforms.
        The Chairman. Appreciate it. It is an issue I think that I
    would love to see legislation come out this Congress to really
    fix the broken underlying process.
        One quick follow up in the minute that we have left is, we
    look at your oversight role, both over the Congressional Budget
    Office, but over Federal spending writ large and the Federal
    budget writ large, do you think you have the resources on the
    oversight side? The oversight piece is going to be a huge,
    important piece this Congress.
        Mr. Arrington. I see the House Budget Committee's
    responsibilities much more broadly I think than some. It is not
    just a budget resolution. To me, we are the budget
    accountability committee. We should look at the spending, the
    consequences of inflation and high interest rates. We should
    look at economic growth.
        One percent of GDP growth over a 10-year horizon is $3
    trillion. We shouldn't accept that it is just 1.7 or 1.8 or
    whatever the CBO is projecting. We have done better. We can do
    better.
        I have a broader view of pro-growth, pro-work, pro-energy
    policies that will help this country grow again so we can do
    what they did in World War II or after, which is bend the
    spending but grow the economy, and get us back to that solid
    footing.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you very much.
        Thank you to you, Mr. Chairman, and to the Ranking Member.
    I have great confidence that, having spent the last 4 years as
    a member of the Budget Committee, I really appreciate your
    devotion to task.
        I will just note parenthetically, too, you used Niagara
    Falls in your analogy, I wouldn't entirely necessarily embrace
    the analogy, but do appreciate an Upstate New York reference.
    You are welcome to come to Niagara Falls any time and we would
    be happy to host you.
        I would love to work with you both on making certain that
    our country's fiscal health is in order and provides growth and
    opportunity for not only this generation, for a generation of
    Americans to come. I look forward to that.
        As the chairman said, our responsibility here is to look at
    the agreement you have reached, and appreciate the fact that
    you have reached an agreement and the two of you are in
    accordance on the distribution of resources.
        I just want to ask you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate the fact
    that you made the distribution. I am asking each of the Chair
    just for the record, want to make sure that you are comfortable
    with and will allow unrestricted access to Ranking Member Boyle
    for his portion and allocation in the budget over the next
    year.
        Mr. Arrington. Well, we are committed to that. If it is not
    on paper, we will put it on paper. He has my word. I want him
    to feel good about it. The conflicts shouldn't be resources
    between our colleagues, it should be on ideas that are debated.
    I am committed to that.
        Mr. Morelle. Well, I appreciate that and I am happy to take
    your word for it. I don't think we need to put it in writing.
    But I do appreciate that.
        To the Ranking Member, who is a longtime friend and
    somebody I have enormous confidence in, are you comfortable
    with the arrangement and feel as though you have the resources
    within the agreement you reached to be able to do what you need
    to do?
        Mr. Boyle. Yes. Two things on that.
        First, I absolutely take Jodey's word for it and appreciate
    his pledge on that.
        Second, I would say, I mean, let's be candid, we are no
    longer in a period in which either political party has a
    permanent majority in this Chamber. I have served in the
    minority, the majority, the minority. The House is probably 50-
    50 up for grabs facing next election. I think it serves both
    sides well to be fair to one another when it comes to these
    sorts of things because today's majority will at some point be
    tomorrow's minority, and then the day after that will be the
    majority again. That is just the reality that we are in.
        Mr. Morelle. Well, I appreciate it. I actually appreciate
    very much--I know we are going to have--we have had several
    folks come in prior to this and we will have many more to come.
    I really appreciate the sincerity which I think you both
    exhibit and demonstrate, and your willingness to work together.
    We are not going to always agree on policy, but I certainly
    appreciate agreement on civility and conducting ourselves in
    ways that the American public would be proud of.
        Thank you for being here. I yield back.
        The Chairman. I appreciate the Chairman and the Ranking
    Member's time today, part of our commitment to regular order
    and restoring accountability in today's government. Thank you
    very much.
        I thank the Chair and the Ranking Member for coming in
    today. Today's hearing is all part of our commitment to, one,
    restoring regular order here in the people's House, but also
    transparency and accountability to the American people.
        We are going to recognize both the Chair and the Ranking
    Member for 5 minutes for purposes of opening statements. Then,
    the majority and the minority will have a total of 5 minutes to
    ask questions in follow-up.
        I will now recognize Chairman Tom Cole for the purpose of
    an opening statement.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. TOM COLE, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
                       FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

        Mr. Cole. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, Chairman
    Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, old friends, like my friend Mrs.
    Torres. This is a great committee. It is a pleasure to be here.
        Thank you for inviting me to testify on the budget request
    for the Committee on Rules for the 118th Congress. I appreciate
    the thoughtful and deliberate work you do to ensure that the
    committees have the resources they need to fulfill our
    constitutional mandate.
        Along with my partner and very good friend on the
    committee, Ranking Member Jim McGovern, I respectfully request
    level funding for the 118th Congress to carry out our
    institutional responsibilities on behalf of the American
    people.
        As my colleagues who previously served on the Rules
    Committee, Ranking Member Morelle and Mrs. Torres, are well
    aware, on our committee we have no margin for error or delay.
    We have no ability to turn down work in response to
    insufficient resources. We have no ability to calibrate our
    workload based on available funds.
        When the House is considering legislation, the Rules
    Committee must be open for business. Preparing legislation for
    the floor comes with high fixed costs, costs that don't
    disappear when the resources get tight.
        Many other committees may have weeks or months to prepare
    their work product. However, the Rules Committee's agenda is
    measured in days, hours, and minutes.
        As a result of the committee's essential and unique role,
    we invest heavily in a custom automated workflow system, one
    that allows us to process thousands of amendments in a matter
    of days.
        In the 117th Congress, the committee processed over 8,500
    amendment submissions, an increase of 14 percent over the
    previous Congress. We expect to exceed that number perhaps by a
    significant amount in this Congress.
        We are encouraged by the level of member and staff
    engagement in the legislative process so far this Congress and
    look forward to partnering with committees to move exceptional
    work product to the House floor in a deliberative process
    whereby all voices can be heard.
        While the Committee on Rules is a standing committee, its
    function is different than any other. Without the Committee on
    Rules operating at peak efficiency, the entire institution
    suffers.
        Our committee's responsibility is the timely delivery of
    business to the floor, maintaining the Republican Conference's
    commitment to transparency and openness in the legislative
    process and the fair and efficient handling of member requests.
        Due to the previous investments that your committee has
    allowed us to make, both in staff and technology, we believe we
    can rise to the challenges and opportunities that we will
    certainly confront in the next 2 years without an increase in
    funding.
        As such, our budget request for the 118th Congress is a
    flat funding request of $8,335,614, equally divided between
    each session.
        Thanks for your consideration of our request. I am prepared
    to answer any questions you may have.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Cole follows:]

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        The Chairman. Thank you, Chairman Cole.
        Ranking Member McGovern, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES P. MCGOVERN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS

        Mr. McGovern. Well, thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking
    Member Morelle and the members of the Committee on House
    Administration. I am pleased to be joining my good friend,
    Chairman Cole, in presenting our request for funding for the
    Committee on Rules for the 118th Congress.
        Our committee, as Mr. Cole has pointed out, is unique. Our
    primary mission is not to write laws, nor conduct direct
    oversight, but rather to facilitate the work of all House
    committees and of the House itself. That means we don't
    typically hire experts on one specific policy. Our staff tracks
    every policy question that comes to the House floor and are
    seasoned experts on House procedures and precedents.
        As Ranking Member Morelle and Congresswoman Torres know
    from personal experience, our work does not run on a schedule
    limited by business hours. We know late nights better than
    anyone else in these Halls.
        Further, our workload has only grown in recent years. For
    example, as recently as the 114th Congress, our committee
    received under 4,000 amendment submissions for our
    consideration. Last Congress, we received over 8,500
    submissions.
        We take the responsibility of keeping this institution
    functioning very seriously, and I believe that we have
    succeeded in being a resource for all members and staff serving
    here.
        A big part of that success has been our ability to hire and
    retain our extraordinary staff on both sides of the aisle--and
    let me emphasize the word ``extraordinary.'' We have also
    succeeded by keeping our disagreements where they belong--on
    matters of substance.
        When it comes to the logistics of running the committee and
    working within the budget allocated to us, I could not ask for
    a better partner than my good friend from Oklahoma, Mr. Cole.
    Over the last two Congresses, we worked closely as Chair and
    Ranking Member, and I look forward to continuing that
    relationship with our roles reversed--although I liked the
    arrangement previously better, but anyway.
        I am also grateful that Chairman Cole is continuing our
    committee's long tradition of providing the minority full
    control over one-third of the overall budget. I support the
    request of this committee from my Chairman that we be provided
    the same amount of funding for each of the next 2 years as we
    were provided for the last year.
        These funds will allow us to continue supporting this
    institution, from its leadership to its committees to the
    staffs of every member office.
        I thank you for your time and your attention, and I am
    happy to answer any questions that you may have. Thank you.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. McGovern follows:]

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        The Chairman. Thank both very much.
        The majority and the minority will now have a total of 5
    minutes to ask the witnesses questions.
        The majority will now yield to Mr. Murphy for the purpose
    of asking questions for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Murphy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you, gentlemen, for coming today. I am just going to
    try to make this brief.
        You guys are asking essentially for a 10 percent increase
    over last time. This is part of the committee process. Is that
    bad math?
        Mr. Cole. Yes. Our request is a flat budget.
        Mr. Murphy. Flat budget for 2023, 2024. Then how can that
    be 10 percent over what was done in the 117th? Can somebody
    help with that?
        Mr. McGovern. Yes. I think we got a midsession increase in
    the 117th Congress. We are simply asking for a flat level as we
    go forward.
        Mr. Murphy. A flat level from the increase last time?
        Mr. McGovern. Yes.
        Mr. Cole. That did not come at the beginning.
        Mr. Murphy. Okay, so my question is just because we are
    trying to save money and all this other stuff.
        Last time you in the majority spent 83 percent of your
    funds, correct, is what I am seeing here?
        Mr. McGovern. Correct.
        Mr. Murphy. The minority spent 100 percent.
        To what do you owe the increased need? What is going to be
    the increased need for this----
        Mr. McGovern. We are asking for the same amount as last
    year.
        Mr. Murphy. Alright. Well, I am looking at a different
    number then. So----
        Mr. Cole. It was provided in 2022? So----
        Mr. Murphy. I am looking at 7.5 million last time and 8.3
    million this time. Is that correct? Am I just looking at the
    wrong numbers? I am not arguing with you.
        Mr. Cole. No. No.
        Mr. Murphy. I just wanted to know what the difference is
    going to be. What new adjustments are there?
        Mr. Cole. There was a new committee funding resolution that
    was done in 2022. That was the budget we operated off in 2022.
    We are not asking for an increase for 2023 and 2024.
        Mr. Murphy. Alright. Got it. Got it. Got it.
        Mr. Cole. Yes.
        Mr. Murphy. I don't have any issues. I think Rules, I think
    y'all run pretty lean and mean. You are not planning on having
    any field hearings in Alaska or anything like this. That is
    correct?
        Mr. Cole. That is correct.
        Mr. Murphy. Alright.
        Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I really don't have any
    considerations. I will yield back.
        The Chairman. I reserve the balance of my time.
        I will now recognize Ranking Member Morelle for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you, Chairman Cole, Ranking Member McGovern, for
    being here.
        I find myself in a rare disagreement with the Chair and
    Ranking Member. I was prepared to support a doubling of their
    allocation. Apparently they have asked for less than that.
        I will admit, and I think Mrs. Torres would agree with me,
    that it is hard to imagine the amount of time and energy that
    the Rules Committee members put into this endeavor, all hours
    of day and night, often with less, perhaps, notice than we
    would like, and many hours sometimes waiting around for the
    committee to get going because we are just waiting on other
    things to happen here in the House. The staff is remarkable on
    both sides. Appreciate all of their work.
        One of the only downsides to being on--the ranker on this
    committee is not serving on the Rules Committee any longer.
        I really do appreciate the work that they do. They do it,
    both sides, with great civility, have worked incredibly hard to
    advance the interests of the American public. I know it sounds
    like an advertisement for the committee, but I am really
    grateful to you.
        One question I have asked of each of the Chairs and Ranking
    Members--and I very much appreciate the fact that you have
    agreed on the allocation. Mr. Chairman, can you commit to just
    making sure that the minority has unrestricted access to their
    portion of the allocation that is given to the committee?
        Mr. Cole. Absolutely. We certainly got that courtesy from
    then Chairman McGovern when I was there. We have tried to
    extend that back. We think that is important.
        Honestly, we do have a terrific working relationship
    between the two staffs, as my friend knows, and they are candid
    with one another. They share back and forth with one another.
    They understand how difficult these jobs are and, honestly, I
    think have worked together extraordinarily well to facilitate
    things.
        You know and Mrs. Torres knows as former members, we deal
    with some really controversial items. There is not a break. We
    are doing it every single week that we are in session.
        I am really proud of the example my friend, the Ranking
    Member, set as Chairman in terms of maintaining--and my
    colleagues who are up on the dais--maintaining the really
    collegial and cooperative relationship between the two sides.
        You have my firm commitment that my friend, the ranking
    member, has complete control over his one-third of the total
    allocation.
        Mr. Morelle. I appreciate that.
        Anything further you would like to add, Mr. McGovern?
        Mr. McGovern. I agree with him.
        Mr. Morelle. Wow. I appreciate that.
        Mr. Cole. I wish I heard that more in my own committee.
        Mr. Morelle. I would like to reserve just a moment or two
    and yield to my friend, Mrs. Torres.
        Mrs. Torres. I just want to thank you both for coming to
    our committee, our new committee assignment here, and to say
    that, while I agree 100 percent with your budget, I am just
    very concerned about the staff time, the long hours that it
    seems to just continue to grow every year, the time that they
    spend working at the Capitol dealing with amendments and the
    late hours.
        I don't know how to improve that, but I will leave that to
    both of you to figure out how to improve those working
    conditions for the staff.
        Thank you. Yield back.
        Mr. Morelle. I yield back, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
        Thank you both for being here and for all the great work
    you do.
        The Chairman. Briefly, in the time that the majority has
    left, I just wanted to follow up with one question if I can
    with you, Chairman Cole.
        One of the things that this committee has been looking at
    is kind of software solutions and whether or not there are any
    enterprise solutions. I know your committee has worked with a
    program called Core, I am not sure how familiar you are with
    this, in Dropbox. I know you have a significant number of
    documents that come in, often late at night.
        Curious. Your request includes $250,000 to make necessary
    updates and adjustments to the Core software. Could you just
    comment briefly as to the essential purpose of this software
    just so we get an understanding as we think through potential
    enterprise solutions?
        Mr. Cole. Asking me for anything technological is
    probably--you have immediately moved me beyond my competence.
        I will say this, it is just the sheer volume of work and
    the speed at which technology has changed that we have to be
    constantly able to adapt. Again, we are not asking for more
    money in the overall budget.
        The Chairman. Right.
        Mr. Cole. We are just actually making efficiencies within
    our own budget and redirecting resources there so we can stay
    on top of the flow of paper.
        The amendment requests are staggering. We don't expect that
    to slow down. We are happy. Look, that just means members are
    engaged, and they have got ideas, and they are bringing them
    forward on both sides. We are going to try to facilitate as
    much as we possibly can.
        It does require to keep things moving, really top level
    technology that changes on a regular basis. We can't get
    ourselves ever into a situation where we are relying on
    technology that is 10 years old. That happens a lot in the
    Federal Government--or 20, or 30 years old. We have seen that
    before. We just simply won't be able to keep track of the paper
    and deliver the product in a way that allows the House to move
    in a timely fashion.
        We figure we are the last stop before something goes to the
    floor. It needs to move at the pace that the body wants it to
    move at and make sure that we don't keep members sitting around
    waiting because we can't produce the work product quickly
    enough.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much for that insight. We are
    always looking at ways to find enterprise solutions here in the
    House to improve efficiencies across all our committees.
        I appreciate both of your testimony here today. I
    appreciate your openness to participate in our commitment to
    regular order and accountability.
        Thank you very much. Have a wonderful day.
        Mr. McGovern. Thank you.
        The Chairman. Chairman Jordan, Ranking Member Nadler, thank
    you for coming to testify today before our hearing. This is our
    commitment to restoring regular order to the people's House and
    to improving accountability and transparency to the American
    people.
        We will recognize each of you for 5 minutes for the purpose
    of an opening statement. The majority and minority will have a
    total of 5 minutes to ask questions.
        I will now recognize Chairman Jim Jordan for the purpose of
    an opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. JIM JORDAN, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE
                             STATE OF OHIO

        Mr. Jordan. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, thank you for the
    invitation to testify today.
        The Judiciary Committee has an important mission:
    protecting the fundamental civil liberties of American
    citizens.
        We have all seen what has happened over the past several
    years. We have seen the First Amendment under attack from big
    tech and big government. Just read the Twitter Files. We have
    seen how the Justice Department and the FBI abuse their law
    enforcement authorities. We have seen how the open border
    policies of this administration have led to crime, drained
    local resources, and allowed drugs to flow into our country.
        These are important and serious issues. They are the things
    the Judiciary Committee must examine. We expect to have an
    aggressive legislative and oversight agenda this Congress.
        In addition, the House has created a new select
    subcommittee within the Judiciary Committee on the
    weaponization of the Federal Government.
        To meet our immediate needs, we are respectfully asking for
    your consideration of a $2 million annual increase to our
    budget. In addition, we respectfully ask for access to up to 15
    million for the reserve fund to meet additional needs of the
    committee and the select subcommittee as necessary.
        We have structured the request in this manner so that we
    have the resources we need, but to ensure we are also careful
    stewards of taxpayer dollars.
        Thank you for your consideration of our request. I am happy
    to answer your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Jordan follows:]

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        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        Ranking Member Nadler, you are now recognized for 5
    minutes.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. JERROLD NADLER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEW YORK

        Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Chairman Steil, Ranking Member
    Morelle, and members of the committee, I am pleased to appear
    before you today to discuss the House Judiciary Committee's
    funding request for the 118th Congress.
        The House Judiciary Committee has historically been one of
    the most active committees in the House. Our wide jurisdiction,
    ranging from antitrust, immigration, and constitutional law, to
    issues relating to criminal justice, civil rights, and the
    courts, places us at the forefront of many of the most pressing
    issues facing our country today.
        In fact, last Congress, nearly 2,000 legislative measures
    were referred to the committee, representing more than 16
    percent of all bills introduced in the House.
        Under Democratic leadership, the Judiciary Committee held
    nearly 80 hearings, reported 83 bills and resolutions to the
    House, and had primary jurisdictional involvement in the
    passage of 110 bills and resolutions. Of these, we were able to
    enact 53 into law.
        I hope that under the Republican majority the committee
    will continue to tackle difficult issues and solve problems
    with substantive hearings on meaningful legislation that moves
    to the House floor in a bipartisan manner.
        So far, they have produced very little, but I remain
    hopeful.
        With that in mind, I support the majority's request to
    increase funding for the 118th Congress. A funding increase
    will be critical to recruiting and hiring the staff we need to
    accomplish our important work and to providing them with the
    resources that they need to succeed.
        With so many pressing issues before our country, this
    funding increase is critical to allow us to continue to deliver
    results for the American people.
        I understand that the majority plans, after subtracting the
    amounts to cover administrative expenses and salaries for
    shared employees, to allocate two-thirds of the remaining funds
    to the majority and one-third for the minority to cover
    salaries. They also plan to maintain one shared employee for
    financial matters. This is in line with the committee's recent
    practice.
        Having said that, I do have several concerns with the
    majority's request. Unfortunately, we were merely presented
    with a copy of their request roughly 4 hours before it was
    submitted, and they made no attempt to seek any input from the
    minority. Since Chairman Jordan did not solicit our views, I
    hope to share some of our objections with you.
        First, we strongly object to the funding of ``up to'' 50
    staff slots and ``up to'' $15 million for new select
    committees. That is greater than the entire Judiciary Committee
    budget, for which they request a little more than $11 million.
        If they really propose a $15 million subcommittee, they
    should say so. By asking for ``up to'' this amount, we have no
    idea of the real scope of the select subcommittee, which makes
    it impossible to plan for. The budget after all is literally a
    plan to spend money. Apparently, they don't have one.
        We have other concerns that we hoped we would have been
    able to share with them. Had they asked, we might have advised
    them that the numbers they used for administrative expenses are
    exorbitant, especially coming from someone like Chairman Jordan
    who prides himself on being a fiscal conservative.
        I ask you to look carefully at the numbers in their
    presentation and you will be shocked, as I was, that they are
    asking for double, triple, and at times even 30 times more than
    was actually spent last year--30 times.
        For example, their travel budget is $260,000, up from
    $8,000 last year. That is a thirtyfold increase. Their printing
    budget is up from just $689 to $20,000, a twentyfold increase.
    They propose to triple the amount of money spent on so-called
    ``other services,'' and they want to double the amount spent on
    supplies. They want almost $350,000 for equipment. Last year we
    managed just fine by spending only $65,000.
        Now, maybe they really did a careful cost estimate and came
    up with these numbers. Unlikely, but maybe they did.
        Why do I bother mentioning it here? The answer is because
    all of this administrative funding comes first, before they
    divide up the salaries. Therefore, it shrinks the amount of
    money going to the minority to pay for personnel.
        Was this on purpose? Probably not, but it does have a
    significant impact on the minority, especially if that money,
    as I suspect, is never actually spent on the items that they
    say they plan to spend it on. Perhaps they could learn from our
    example and run a more efficient operation.
        If we have a cooperative arrangement between the Chairman
    and Ranking Member, then I am comfortable sharing
    administrative expenses. If the expenses are equally shared and
    if the majority supports the minority's efforts to use the
    funds as it sees fit, then it is Okay to share.
        For example, if the Republicans don't want to pay for a
    HOPS system to track time off and we do, then we do not get to
    spend those funds.
        What if they don't want to pay for news sources that they
    don't agree with and what if they don't want to pay for
    computers or cell phones?
        Recently, they rejected spending requests on the personnel
    side of the budget as well. In response to question three on
    your questionnaire, they indicated there were no restrictions
    on how the minority was allowed to utilize its personnel funds
    last Congress. In response to question four, they indicated
    that the committee would allocate funds to the minority in the
    same manner as in the 117th Congress. And yet they have
    rejected personnel decisions by the minority already this year.
        They have indeed placed restrictions on how we spend the
    money. They have argued that we would not be able to spend more
    than one-twelfth the annual personnel budget in any given
    month. We believe this type of restriction is unprecedented.
        The Chairman. The gentleman is requested to conclude his
    remarks.
        Mr. Nadler. We would argue that so long as we have not gone
    over the total budget for the year, they ought to allow us to
    spend these funds as we see fit just as we did when we were in
    the majority. Right now, we have no recourse if they reject our
    request for expenses, even if our requests are rejected on a
    seemingly arbitrary basis.
        If that is the case, we do have a problem with the division
    of funds. If the division of funds is meant to enhance
    efficiencies by purchasing prescriptions in bulk, for example,
    that is fine. If it is used as a tool by the majority to deny
    funds and resources to the minority, that is not a fair
    division of funds.
        The bottom line----
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Nadler follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. The gentleman's time has expired. We are
    going to make sure we get through everyone's testimony here
    today. I don't want to cut you too short, but I did give you--I
    allowed you an extra minute.
        I would remind my colleagues that last year, under the
    Democratic majority, this House spent $18.3 million on the
    select committee on January 6th with very limited oversight by
    this body without Republicans appointed to that committee by
    our then minority leader, now Speaker of the House, Kevin
    McCarthy.
        Mr. Nadler. I would remind the Chairman that the minority--
    --
        The Chairman. The gentleman is not recognized.
        Mr. Nadler. You want to cutoff speech, that is Okay.
        The Chairman. The gentleman was given his full 5 minutes
    and was graciously extended an additional 1 minute past that
    time. The gentleman is allowed to provide extended remarks in
    the written record through the duration of today if you would
    like to submit additional remarks.
        The majority and minority will both be allowed 5 minutes
    for questioning the witnesses. I will now yield from the
    majority's time to Ms. Laurel Lee for the purpose of asking the
    witnesses questions.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Chairman Jordan, I would like to begin with the select
    subcommittee on the Weaponinzation of the Federal Government,
    which has been added to the Judiciary Committee's
    responsibilities this year.
        Would you share for us what additional resources are needed
    in order for the select subcommittee to conduct its essential
    oversight and investigative work?
        Mr. Jordan. Yes. I appreciate the question.
        We think potentially a lot of additional resources. That is
    why we asked for the reserve fund.
        I mean, never forget we have an FBI that targeted moms and
    dads for showing up at school board meetings, an FBI that we
    learned a couple weeks ago in the Richmond Field Office said if
    you are a traditional Catholic, they are going to treat you as
    a domestic terrorist.
        We had a Department of Homeland Security attempt in this
    administration to set up a Disinformation Governance Board as
    if some Federal agency can tell you what is appropriate speech
    and what is not appropriate speech.
        Mr. Nadler just talked about free speech. I mean, you have
    got to be kidding me. That is the biggest attack I have ever
    seen, frankly, on the First Amendment.
        Of course, we now have the ATF, which has rewritten a rule
    without any input from the Congress that could potentially make
    millions of law-abiding citizens felons for exercising their
    Second Amendment liberties.
        That is just a quick sampling. That is why we think that a
    substantial reserve fund is so necessary.
        Ms. Lee. Chairman Jordan, mention was made of the travel
    budget and field hearings. The Judiciary Committee just
    returned from a field hearing to the border. Is that right?
        Mr. Jordan Sure did.
        Ms. Lee. Could you tell us, please, why it is that you
    believe it is important for the Judiciary Committee to have the
    opportunity to conduct such hearings out in the field?
        Mr. Jordan. Because 5 million illegal migrants have entered
    this country in the last 23 months. If that doesn't warrant
    having a travel budget.
        There is a reason why the Homeland Security went to the
    border in the last 2 weeks, the Speaker of the House went to
    the border in the last few weeks, the Judiciary Committee went
    to the border in the last few weeks, minus Democrats who
    refused to show up, and there is also the Energy and Commerce
    Committee went to the border, because it is such a substantial
    problem, not only to the communities on the border.
        We heard from the folks in Yuma. We heard from the hospital
    administrator in Yuma who said that there were residents,
    American citizens in his community, who had to go somewhere
    else, couldn't go to the maternity ward because it was full. I
    mean, they were helping migrants who were delivering children.
    You know, God bless them. Of course they are going to do that.
    But citizens there had to travel to Phoenix or San Diego or
    somewhere else to deliver a child.
        That is the kind of impact it is having on the border and
    of course we are beginning to see this across the country.
        That is why we thought it is important to have a travel
    budget as we deal with this immigration border crisis that we
    have seen now, again, for 2 years.
        Ms. Lee. Chairman Jordan, what restrictions were placed on
    Republican members and staff of the committee during the 117th
    Congress, especially when it came to conducting official
    travel?
        Mr. Jordan. Yes. We were limited. Republican staff were
    limited to traveling to the border in 2021. Also, I would point
    out I don't know that we had even--we had to go I think a year
    before we even had--over a year before we even had Secretary
    Mayorkas in front of the Judiciary Committee, which, as you all
    know, has primary jurisdiction over immigration legislation and
    immigration enforcement.
        We want to change that. That is part of why we are doing
    and asking for the budget requests that we are asking for.
        Ms. Lee. You mentioned in your initial remarks that you had
    proposed a budget ``up to'' certain amounts in a couple places.
    Would you tell us why you have chosen to do that instead of
    setting them at the highest amount that you think might be
    required?
        Mr. Jordan. Well, because, as I said in my opening
    statement, because we are the U.S. Congress. We are supposed to
    be stewards of the American people's money, good stewards, and
    we felt, look, we are going to need resources to get to the
    bottom of everything that is going on.
        The idea that you had the Federal Government telling big
    tech companies, literally emails to big tech companies saying
    we think you should take down these posts and look at these
    accounts, as Professor Turley said, you had censorship by
    surrogate, that is frightening.
        It is going to take resources, staff, and people to get to
    the bottom of all the things that are going on where the
    government we think has in many ways been turned against the
    very people it is supposed to represent and supposed to serve.
        At the same time, we didn't want to come in and just have
    that money. We said we will draw down as is needed to do the
    good work that the Congress said should happen in this select
    committee.
        Ms. Lee. Thank you, Chairman Jordan.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back the remainder of my time.
        The Chairman. I reserve the balance of our time.
        I now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5
    minutes for the purpose of asking questions.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Thank you, Chairman Jordan and Ranking Member Nadler, for
    being here.
        I think I would just express personally my disappointment
    that I think, of all the standing committees that are coming
    before us, this is the only committee that hasn't been able to
    arrive at an agreement on the expenditure of dollars. We
    clearly would hope that would be the case going forward.
        In the last Congress, in the Judiciary Committee, under
    Chairman Nadler's leadership, he mentioned some of the things.
    The committee was very busy, passed more than a hundred bills
    on the House floor, held more than 80 hearings, marked up
    nearly 100 bills in committee.
        Over the 4 years, again under Chairman Nadler's leadership
    and his predecessor, the Judiciary Committee ensured that
    survivors of sexual assault and sexual harassment are free to
    tell their stories and seek justice in Federal courts,
    reauthorized the Violence Against Women Act, codified lynching
    as a Federal crime in Federal law, addressed the State of hate
    crimes against Asian Americans and others in the wake of the
    COVID-19 pandemic, enacted the first significant gun safety
    legislation in a generation, enacted measured to strengthen the
    antitrust system. In addition, a Judiciary Committee bill
    enshrined marriage equality into Federal law.
        It was an ambitious agenda with a series of accomplishments
    with less money than is being proposed to spend in this
    Congress.
        Let me just begin.
        Chairman Jordan, would you anticipate marking up a hundred
    bills in the committee in this Congress? Is that your goal.
        Mr. Jordan. I don't necessarily think the American people
    want us to pass a whole lot more laws. What I think they want
    us to do is deal with the border situation and deal with the
    government that I think so many Americans think has been turned
    against them in many ways. That is where we are going to focus.
    We do anticipate passing immigration enforcement legislation
    out of the committee in the very near future.
        Mr. Morelle. I understand that you may not be interested in
    marking up or passing as many bills as happened in the previous
    Congresses.
        Is the resource that you have asked for, particularly the
    increase, are those resources going to be devoted toward
    investigations primarily, transcribed interviews, document
    requests? Is that the nature of what you see the spend will be?
        Mr. Jordan. The resources will be for the committee's work.
    I do anticipate a lot of the committee's work is going to be in
    the area you just described.
        Mr. Morelle. Of the what? I am sorry. I didn't hear you.
        Mr. Jordan. In the area you just described, doing the
    constitutional oversight duty and function that we have as
    members of Congress to stop the behavior we have seen from so
    many of these Federal agencies.
        Frankly, to propose legislation. It is our job to propose
    legislation that would help remedy the situation.
        Mr. Morelle. Obviously from our committee's perspective and
    from my role here, is to try to ensure that the minority in
    each of the various committees has access to the resources they
    need to do their work.
        I want to ask whether you would make sure that you pledge
    that the minority has not only the resources they need to do
    their work, but also unimpeded access to the resources once
    they are allocated.
        Mr. Jordan. We believe our budget plan does that.
        Mr. Morelle. I am sorry?
        Mr. Jordan. We believe that our budget plan does that and
    is consistent with the way we had to operate in the last
    Congress.
        Mr. Morelle. Mr. Ranking Member, Mr. Nadler, how do you
    feel about that? Do you feel you will have unimpeded access to
    the resources from the committee?
        Mr. Nadler. No. We have already been blocked. They are
    enforcing a rule which has never been enforced before, which is
    to say that you get an amount of money, and one-twelfth of that
    must be spent in each month. You can't--you can't budget that
    way.
        We have already been told--some of the people we want to
    hire, we can't hire yet. Already harmed us. We have never done
    this before. Committee, the minority, the majority gets a
    budget. The majority is supposed to get--I am sorry. The
    minority is supposed to get one-third after administrative
    expenses, but we have never had a month-by-month limit.
        I also--let me just also point out, in reference to what
    the chairman said a few minutes ago, we did allow staff and the
    ranking member to use funds to travel to the border last year,
    or in last Congress, I should say, when I was the Chairman. We
    also went to El Paso after the mass shooting, invited all the
    Republicans to come. They chose not to.
        Mr. Morelle. I want to be careful about my time, so there
    are a number of other questions I have.
        Clearly, I want to make sure there is a split of resources,
    even on the Subcommittee on Weaponization, et cetera, which I
    don't know that has been agreed to, but want to keep a close
    eye on this and continue to make sure there is accountability
    here.
        With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        Next week, we will be marking up these committee requests,
    but I will say, Chairman Jordan, you have a huge task in front
    of you as it relates to protecting the freedoms and liberties
    of Americans, as it is addressing the border crisis and the
    immigration crisis that has played out under this Democratic
    President. I know you have a request to increase your funding,
    but it pales in comparison to the $18 million that was spent by
    the Democratic majority last Congress in a partisan move on the
    select committee on January 6.
        We will take all that under advisement next week. We
    appreciate you both being here, part of our commitment to
    return to regular order and to be transparent to the American
    taxpayers.
        Thank you for your time.
        Mr. Jordan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        The Chairman. Chairwoman Foxx, Ranking Member Scott, thank
    you both for being here today to testify at our hearing on
    committee funding.
        Today's hearing is our commitment to returning to regular
    order in this institution, as well as providing transparency to
    the American people.
        You will both be recognized for 5 minutes for opening
    statements. Then the majority and minority on this committee
    will have 5 minutes in total each to ask questions.
        I will now recognize the Chairwoman of the committee, Dr.
    Foxx.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. VIRGINIA FOXX, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
               CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

        Ms. Foxx. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        While we were waiting, I cut out some of my remarks but
    will submit the full text of them for the record if you don't
    mind.
        Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle, and members of the
    committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear with my
    colleague, Ranking Member Scott, to testify about our budget
    request for the 118th Congress.
        The work of the Committee on Education and Workforce is
    broad. From education and employment to healthcare and
    retirement, our work affects every aspect of people's lives.
    That is why the work we do here is so important.
        In that light, we have proposed a fiscally prudent budget
    that will allow the committee to advance bold legislative and
    oversight agendas while continuing to serve as trusted stewards
    of the resources we have been given by the American public.
        The committee respectfully requests a 7-percent budget
    increase for the first session of the 118th Congress and an
    additional 6 percent increase for the second session of the
    118th Congress.
        The pandemic gave us a window into just how broken our
    entire education system is. I know everyone here cares deeply
    about giving our Nation's students the best chance of success.
    Working together this Congress, we can truly improve the
    education system and give all students the opportunities they
    deserve.
        We will look for real solutions that help borrowers and
    protect taxpayers to address the student--the broken student
    loan system. We will also strengthen our workforce development
    programs so we can close our Nation's skills gap and prepare
    the next generation of workers for our evolving economy.
        As healthcare continues to be a huge expense for Americans,
    we will focus on strengthening and expanding access to
    employer-sponsored health insurance. The committee will also
    conduct vigorous oversight ensuring the Federal bureaucracy
    administers laws responsibly and as Congress intended. The
    executive branch has gotten too comfortable bypassing the
    legislative process set up by the Constitution.
        As the people's Representatives, we should all be willing
    to guard the authority granted to us by the Constitution,
    regardless of which party is in the Oval Office. As I have said
    many times, my middle initial ``A'' no longer stands for Ann,
    but, rather, for accountability. Everything we do will focus on
    holding the Federal Government bureaucrats accountable for how
    they spend taxpayers' hard-earned money.
        In order to execute the committee's robust legislative and
    oversight workload, the committee must be properly staffed. We
    need to recruit, hire, and retain staff in order to enhance the
    committee's institutional knowledge and productivity.
        To enhance the committee's legislative and oversight
    efforts, we will pursue a strong schedule of hearings in
    Washington, DC, regional field hearings, and relevant site
    visits to hear directly from affected parties and see firsthand
    the challenges facing our schools and workplaces. The American
    people expect us to ensure that Federal policies support and do
    not undermine their ability to pursue a lifetime of success and
    prosperity.
        Personally, my reputation for frugality is well-deserved,
    which is why we commit to spending each dollar we are allocated
    efficiently and effectively as we do the work the American
    people sent us to do. We respectfully ask the committee take
    these factors into account as you consider our budget request.
        Thank you for the opportunity to testify. I appreciate your
    time and am happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Foxx follows:]

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        The Chairman. Thank you very much, Chairwoman Foxx.
        Ranking Member Scott, you are now recognized.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. ROBERT C. "BOBBY" SCOTT, A REPRESENTATIVE
              IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NORTH CAROLINA

        Mr. Scott of Virginia. Thank you, and good afternoon,
    Chairman Steil, Ranking Member Morelle. Good to see my
    colleague from Virginia and the gentlelady from California. It
    is--thank you for the opportunity to speak before you as
    ranking member with Chairwoman Foxx to speak in support of our
    bipartisan budget for the House Education and Workforce
    Committee.
        I also want to thank Chairwoman Foxx for developing our
    committee budget and for--and to support the request for the
    118th Congress, which represents no more than a 7-percent
    increase over the last Congress.
        Although I believe our committee deserves more than a 7-
    percent increase, I do think it is at least sufficient enough
    of an increase to carry out our committee's legislative and
    oversight responsibilities. Moreover, Dr. Foxx and I want to
    continue to be role models for our colleagues and work in a
    productive bipartisan manner so that we can continue to
    disagree without being disagreeable.
        For the past practice, one-third of the budget would be
    allocated to the minority. It has been our practice in the
    committee to provide the minority with autonomy over its budget
    allocation. I look forward to Chairwoman Foxx continuing to
    honor this committee's tradition.
        Moreover, the budget allocation would allow the minority to
    continue its work with the highest level of professionalism and
    expertise. As you know, the committee has jurisdiction over
    matters that impact all walks of life--children, students,
    workers, older Americans--and as such, it is imperative that we
    attract and develop and retain a diverse, highly talented, and
    credentialed staff who can develop evidence-based policy
    initiatives to improve the lives of the American people.
        During the 117th Congress, this robust staff worked to
    present 60 committee hearings, report out 25 bills of the
    committee, pass 23 bills through the House, and had ultimately
    7 bills signed by the President.
        We had many other of our proposals adopted in larger bills,
    such as the American Rescue Act Plan and others. Simply put,
    when Americans were struggling, the committee and staff
    delivered. As a result, we added more jobs into the economy in
    2 years than any previous administration had added in 4,
    including 100 percent recovery of the jobs lost during the
    pandemic. We saved the pensions of over 1 million workers in
    the multi-employee pension fund and, at the same time,
    protected hundreds of businesses from closing.
        We delivered the largest one-time Federal investment in K-
    12 education in U.S. history and brought the number of
    Americans without health insurance down to the lowest
    percentage ever.
        Moving forward, in the minority, the committee Democrats
    and our staff will not rest. We pledge to work with Dr. Foxx in
    areas where we find commonality, and we have already identified
    areas, such as workforce development, juvenile justice,
    protecting consumers from surprise billing, and hopefully there
    will be others. We will also press for the protection of the
    right of workers to organize, earn a livable wage that honors
    the dignity of their work and a safe workplace environment free
    of harassment and discrimination.
        We will also continue to promote equity in education so
    that students can learn in a safe, welcoming environment and
    students can access and afford an education that will prepare
    them for the modern economy. We will promote food security
    policies and expansion of affordable healthcare.
        In sum, the minority on the Education and Workforce
    Committee remains committed to our legislative responsibility
    to put people over politics. I join Chairwoman Foxx in asking
    the House Administration Committee to support our request, and
    thank you for the opportunity to testify.
        I will be happy to answer questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Scott of Virginia follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you very much, Ranking Member Scott.
    Appreciate both of you being here.
        The majority and minority will now each have 5 minutes to
    ask questions of the witness. I will start with myself.
        Chairwoman Foxx, you have a robust travel plan. I think
    that is really important to go out and hear from the American
    people. Could you just provide a few additional details of what
    you look to obtain while being outside of Washington, DC.?
        Ms. Foxx. Well, we hope to obtain what I think each member
    hopes to obtain every time we go out into our district and talk
    to people. We want to hear from the people being affected by
    the policies that are passed by the Congress of the United
    States and how they are affecting them and to receive
    suggestions on how we can do things better. It is an
    opportunity to hear from the public--not talk to them but
    listen to them.
        The Chairman. Thank you. I am going to dive--shift gears
    slightly and kind of go into the mundane here for a second
    because I know you correctly said you have a reputation for
    being frugal, and I think this House has an opportunity to be a
    little more frugal writ large.
        Inside of your funding request, there is $160,000 each
    session for the cost of subscriptions and publications. One of
    the things that we are looking at this committee is, are there
    campuswide solutions to bring the costs down so that all of our
    committees aren't signing up for different subscriptions at
    different prices?
        Could you maybe just comment on that? Is there anything in
    particular that would be helpful if we had a campuswide or
    House-wide solution that would allow us to bring costs down?
        Ms. Foxx. Yes. There are several of the subscriptions that
    we know are very expensive, and we applaud your looking at the
    opportunity to get those campuswide, as you said. I think it
    is--one of the law pieces that I can't remember--it has gone
    out of my head right now--that is very, very expensive.
    Political Pro, there are several like that are very, very
    expensive.
        We need those for--CQ, Westlaw--that was the one I was
    trying to think of. Westlaw is very expensive. Anything that
    you could do to make these available to everyone instead of
    everybody having to get their own subscription would be
    terrific.
        The Chairman. Alright. I appreciate your feedback on that.
    That is something that I think we are going to have the
    opportunity to look into to save taxpayers money by looking for
    some of these solutions rather than----
        Ms. Foxx. We, for example, did not continue to subscribe to
    National Journal in our office when it got so expensive. I
    enjoy reading it. I learn from it, but it just wasn't worth the
    cost.
        The Chairman. Absolutely. Understood.
        I will reserve the balance of my time.
        I will now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you, Chairman Foxx, for being here, and
    Ranking Member Scott. I had the good fortune to serve for
    nearly 4 years on the committee, and I have great appreciation
    for the work that you both do and the members as well as the
    members of your staff, who I know work incredibly hard.
        I wanted to--first, I am grateful for the fact that you
    have come together around distribution of resources, and, as I
    have asked each chair and ranking member, first, just about the
    unrestricted access to the resources for the minority, would
    you commit to allowing them, without impeding their ability, to
    hire within their budget allocation?
        Ms. Foxx. Absolutely. That--as Ranking Member Scott has
    said, that has been the tradition, and I will fulfill that
    again.
        Mr. Morelle. Yes. Very good. Appreciate that.
        Mr. Scott, are you confident in the relationship that you
    will have access to resources that you need?
        Mr. Scott of Virginia. Yes.
        Mr. Morelle. The one thing I do want to know--and I
    appreciate the committee's emphasis on field hearings and
    appreciate your anticipated travel plans for the 118th
    Congress. I had asked earlier for a couple of other Chairs,
    relative to the process that has been established with
    coordination between a number of different offices--Sergeant at
    Arms, Capitol Police, the Clerk's Office around court
    reporters, the Chief Administrative Office around broadcasting
    and live-streaming--that system seems, by all accounts, to have
    saved time and money during field hearings that have been done
    in the past.
        Will you continue to utilize that system that we have used
    in previous Congresses?
        Ms. Foxx. Absolutely.
        Mr. Morelle. Okay.
        Ms. Torres? Okay. Very good.
        Thank you. Appreciate all the work you do. Appreciate you
    both being here, and, with that----
        Ms. Foxx. It is nice to see you, Mr. Morelle and Ms.
    Torres, again. She is now not on Rules, I know, so I will miss
    seeing her.
        Mr. Morelle. Well, we welcome you----
        Ms. Foxx. You, too.
        Mr. Morelle [continuing]. to come back here anytime. We
    appreciate seeing you here, and thanks for all your good work.
        I yield back.
        The Chairman. I appreciate both of you testifying here
    today. We will be marking up the full report next week. Your
    insights were helpful, and I appreciate you being part of our
    commitment to regular order and restoring transparency to the
    American people.
        Thank you very much.
        Ms. Foxx. Thank you.
        Mr. Scott of Virginia. We miss the gentleman from New York
    on the committee. He was a great member.
        The Chairman. Chairman Turner and Ranking Member Himes,
    appreciate you being early. We are running ahead of schedule,
    so Mr. Himes is not late; he is early by 4 minutes. We
    appreciate you working with us here.
        Today is a hearing as part of our commitment to regular
    order and transparency to the American people. We will allow
    each of you 5 minutes for the purpose of opening statements,
    and then the majority and the minority will have a total of 5
    minutes each to ask each of you questions.
        I will now recognize you, Mr. Turner, for the purpose of an
    opening statement for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. MICHAEL R. TURNER, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                    CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OHIO

        Mr. Turner. Great. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking
    Member Morelle.
        Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to
    testify in support of budget request of the House Permanent
    Select Committee on Intelligence for 118th Congress. I am
    joined by my Ranking Member, Congressman Jim Himes.
        In recent years, the Intelligence Committee has been
    distracted by partisan politics, but at HPSCI's organizational
    meeting earlier this year, the committee was addressed by
    Speaker McCarthy and Minority Leader Jeffries to deliver, in
    unison, one directive: Return the committee's work exclusively
    toward national security and oversight of the intelligence
    community and to do so in a bipartisan manner. Ranking Member
    Himes and I have accepted this charge, and we have echoed those
    expectations with the membership of the committee.
        To accomplish our requirements, we are requesting 17.2
    million for the 118th Congress, including 8.2 million for the
    first session, and 9 million for the second. The request
    represents a 13.9-percent increase in 2023, an additional
    increase of 10 percent over that for 2024.
        If supported, the request will fund HPSCI's payroll
    operations and investments in information technology, IT, which
    are unique to our committee and are long overdue. With these
    moneys, the House of Representatives is investing in a renewed
    Intelligence Committee that will not only conduct oversight and
    legislative responsibilities but will offer significantly
    improved support to the standing committees of the House.
        This is an initiative driven by the Speaker's desire to
    ensure that the legislative activities of the House are fully
    informed, including, when appropriate, by classified
    intelligence information. Just to underscore that, our
    committee is now open, and we are working diligently to provide
    intelligence information to the jurisdictional committees of
    the House.
        In presenting HPSCI's budget, I want to provide you some
    context related to the challenges we face as we meet today. The
    United States faces unprecedented strategic threats from
    adversaries, including China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran.
    Our adversaries are investing heavily in modernized
    capabilities and have become increasingly aggressive. They are
    testing our resolve, pushing the boundaries of international
    norms, and using all elements of their national power to divide
    and dominate. HPSCI has a duty to understand these threats.
        Mr. Chairman and colleagues, timely indications and
    warnings are critical to sound defense and foreign policy.
    Despite the enormous potential of open-source information, the
    vast majority of what we need to defend ourselves must be
    gained through clandestine and covert means.
        In addition, it is the Intelligence Committee's
    responsibility, the reason of its founding in 1977, to guard
    the American people from abuse originating from our Nation's
    spy agency. Since our founding, we have enacted laws to prevent
    intelligence agencies from targeting Americans, but these laws
    and the IC's compliance require intensive oversight.
        Mr. Chairman, HPSCI will become a better resource for the
    House. As you know, an essential aspect of our work is that it
    must be done behind closed doors, in a SCIF, and with strict
    security controls. Tight security is needed because HPSCI
    maintains information related to the Nation's most sensitive
    classified activities, activities that risk lives and come at
    great cost.
        At the same time, strident security and
    compartmentalization from the rest of the House has limited our
    ability to serve the institution. I am confident that we can do
    a better job in this. We have already demonstrated the value
    proposition of our new rules, updated earlier this month, with
    shared intelligence to the various committees.
        Regarding the substance of our budget request, first,
    funding requests will enable the recruitment and retention of
    highly trained staff. Our staff all must have security
    clearance, which of course increases costs. Also, our funding
    request reflects HPSCI's information technology needs. We are
    unique to the House. Due to the classified nature of our work,
    members and staff can only perform their work in the
    committee's offices, which is a secure compartmentalized
    information facility, or SCIF.
        In recognition of the escalated counterintelligence threats
    to our operations, HPSCI undertakes additional security-related
    steps, including the maintenance of a separate enclave and
    firewall within the House network. Additionally, devices in the
    committee spaces often require modification for use in a SCIF.
        The committee operates an internal classified network that
    is maintained exclusively by HPSCI, on which the bulk of our
    oversight activities are conducted. Network reliability and
    security is critical. Also, to accomplish our objectives, we
    must seek contractual support from information security system
    professionals with appropriate security clearances. Also, we
    maintain an airgap system and a completely separate--a
    computerized system which is unique within the House.
        The committee requests additional funding for its base
    information technology budget in order to support a Department
    of Defense and intelligence community approved supply chain
    security program for network equipment. I cannot overstate the
    importance of this work.
        In short, I want to say we are the new Intelligence
    Committee. We are going to be doing more things, and we have
    additional members to our committee, including having added
    committees of jurisdiction with opportunities to sit within our
    committee structure itself. We need to update our security
    systems, our information systems, and to be able to serve our
    members and our committees.
        I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Turner follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you, Chairman Turner.
        Ranking Member Himes, it is hard--by default, I also went
    to Chairman, but we have moved you as no longer on the select
    committee.
        Ranking Member Himes.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. JAMES A. HIMES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                 CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CONNECTICUT

        Mr. Himes. Thank you, Chairman Steil and Ranking Member
    Morelle.
        Members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to
    discuss the Intelligence Committee's budget request for this
    Congress. I am pleased to join Chairman Turner in this budget
    request. Chairman Turner and his staff have taken a very
    collaborative and bipartisan approach as the committee's work
    has gotten underway, and the----
        The Chairman. I just remind the Ranking Member, your mike
    may not be on, which I can hear you just fine, but I don't
    think our live feed can hear you.
        Mr. Himes. It was not on. I apologize. I will, however,
    keep going.
        HPSCI, as the Chairman said, is a unique committee in many
    respects, not least because the agencies we oversee operate
    nearly entirely in secret. Unlike other committees, which can
    benefit from the expertise and research of outside experts,
    journalists, and others, we cannot use those sources.
    Meanwhile, the task before the committee is vast and growing.
        I would note that, in addition to the Iran threat, the
    North Korea threat, the ongoing work against terrorism, the
    newly emergent crypto and other technological threats, the
    committee is now dealing with the Russia-Ukraine issue, which I
    am not sure we would have anticipated many years ago. Of course
    China and Taiwan becomes ever more demanding.
        We oversee 18 IC agencies and tens of billions of dollars
    authorized each year, a Herculean task that is done with a
    staff smaller than many other committees and oversees smaller
    agencies that are far less opaque.
        Additionally, the committee has grown from 22 members in
    the 116th Congress to 25 members in the 118th Congress, which
    necessitates additional staff and resources to support member
    engagements, briefing, travel, and more.
        The chairman did a great job covering the unique and
    specific IT needs, so I won't repeat what he said. I will,
    however, just focus for a second on our staff. To perform the
    functions that the House and the American people expect from
    us, the committee requires a particularly specialized and
    experienced group of staff members.
        As the committee's budget submission reflects, additional
    resources for professional staff members would ensure the
    committee's ability to bring on highly qualified and
    specialized staff, including those with technical backgrounds
    in high demand in the private sector and elsewhere. An increase
    in budget resources as well as an accompanying increase in FTEs
    is more than justified and more important today than it has
    been in many, many years.
        Once again, I would like to thank Chairman Turner for the
    strong partnership we have established, and I urge,
    respectfully, the House Administration Committee to support
    this request.
        Thank you, and I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Himes follows:]

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you both very much.
        The majority and minority will each now have 5 minutes to
    question the witnesses.
        I will take the majority's time and yield to Mr. Loudermilk
    for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Appreciate both of you being here. I know, working in
    intelligence in the Air Force in the past, I know how critical
    this is and how critical this committee is because I think I
    have seen, and I think the American people have seen, some
    failures in intelligence community over previous years. In
    fact, I think maybe the committee had its eye off the ball in
    previous years. I am very pleased to see the new direction and
    the leadership going forward.
        There are many challenges. You guys have brought up
    challenges. I mean, everything from North Korea, Iran, Russia,
    and China. What do you see as the most significant challenges
    for the committee itself in this Congress, Mr. Chairman?
        Mr. Turner. Well, one of the aspects about this committee
    that is different from others that needs to be taken in
    consideration when you review our budget is that every member
    has their own portfolio and, in that, has the ability to order
    up briefings and to conduct overseas travel and domestic travel
    for codels for factfinding.
        If you will, imagine a committee of 25 people where they
    all have the status of a subcommittee chairmanship in other
    committees. That allows us to have the breadth to deal with the
    broad areas of some of the challenges that we have. For
    example, from my background, I deal with nuclear weapons, both
    our adversaries and ours. We have--and Dr. Wenstrup, who deals
    with, you know, bioweapons, chemical weapons, obviously COVID
    origins, and also the fentanyl issue.
        As you go through our committee of people like yourselves
    with your experience that you were expressing, have then that
    focus that allows us to have that 360 view of all the threats
    and to be able to deal with them in support of the committee,
    that is one of the aspects that does increase our costs.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Thank you.
        Other areas that you know, as I look at it, it appears to
    have an impact. I am probably one of the few members that
    actually go into the SCIF and I read them--the budget request.
    I mean, we have brought on Space Force since I have been in
    Congress, and you are obviously increasing the committee
    membership.
        What does the oversight of, let's say, Space Force and
    increasing the membership--what kind of impact does that have
    on the budget?
        Mr. Turner. Right, so as I was describing, where each of
    these members have, in our committee, a status that another
    committee would be a subcommittee chairmanship, they need staff
    to be able to pursue their portfolio. In addition, then, with
    the add of Space Force, it is not just the functions of Space
    Force, but it is the interrelationship between the IC and what
    Space Force is accomplishing, and looking to their future, but
    we, like the Armed Services Committee, we vote on the budget
    and the funding priorities of the intelligence community. To do
    that, we have to be informed in what they do and what their
    future capabilities might be. And that process of becoming
    informed also is an expense.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. Now, I actually worked in the IT
    sector in intelligence back when it was just coming--was coming
    to age, as Ethernet was new. I understand the specific
    challenges that you have in your unique environment and you
    have touched on it.
        How significant of an impact does this, you know, airgapped
    IT network requirement have on your request?
        Mr. Turner. It is significant. As you can imagine, we are a
    significant target, and, also, we have to be in a way that we
    can host and marry ourselves to the intelligence community to
    exchange data and information so that we can review it, so that
    we can assist and help them.
        Those are very unique systems you won't find anywhere else
    in the Capitol and also cannot just be taken directly from the
    IC itself. So it is a unique system, but it has to be able to
    communicate with and protect----
        Mr. Loudermilk. Right.
        Mr. Turner [continuing]. the data and information.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, I appreciate that.
        Last--and, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, any other
    information you would like to share that we haven't covered?
        Mr. Turner. The one thing I would say is that this is your
    new bipartisan Intelligence Committee. We are working together.
    My Ranking Member, Jim Himes, and I have both committed
    ourselves to that.
        That means that we are going to be doing more, not just
    with the additional members that we have but doing more in
    interacting with the committees. To be able to do that, we have
    to do it in a professional manner, and that is reflected in the
    budget we have submitted.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Mr. Himes, anything?
        Mr. Himes. Amen.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, thank you both, and I yield
    back.
        The Chairman. I now recognize the Ranking Member, Mr.
    Morelle, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
        Thank you, Chairman Turner and Ranking Member Himes, for
    not only being here but the important work that you both do.
        I wanted to follow up the question from Mr. Loudermilk.
    Just to give me a sense, the increase that you have requested--
    and you have talked about the uniqueness of your mission. Can
    you sort of assign a percentage of the dollar increase, how
    much of that is as a result of the sort of uniqueness that
    you--that the committee has in terms of its responsibilities?
        Mr. Turner. I wouldn't be able to quantify it as a
    percentage, but I would tell you this: You know, we are both
    the legislative branch. We are a committee of the House, and we
    are both operating on almost an agency level where we have the
    custodial responsibility to handle and manage the information
    and data that we receive from the intelligence community and
    its agencies.
        That duality, where we have to be equal to them in order to
    be able to do our function, causes an increase in costs for us,
    and that is reflected in our budget.
        Mr. Morelle. Very good.
        I note, too, in your written submission, relative to access
    to the minority for the allocation that is theirs, that you
    anticipate no changes in their ability to access resources they
    see fit under the allocation. Is that--I just want you to
    confirm that--I think that is what you said. You are using the
    same----
        Mr. Turner. Correct. We are operating in the same that we
    had before, and I think Representative Himes can speak to this
    issue also.
        Mr. Himes. Yes. No. We have been working quite well
    together to make sure that it is both consistent with precedent
    and, you know, fair and gives the minority the resources that
    we need. I think we are pretty close to there in terms of
    getting our own budget.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you.
        I want to thank you both for--again, for the mission, and I
    am grateful to hear about the Speaker and the minority leader
    both, you know, giving you the charge of working in a
    bipartisan way. What you do is critically important to the
    future of the United States and its national security, and I
    appreciate all that you do.
        With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
        Mr. Loudermilk. [Presiding.] Alright. Thank you.
        Well, I appreciate both of you being here. We appreciate
    the work you are doing, too, and the new direction the Intel
    Committee is taking. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Turner. Thank you.
        Mr. Loudermilk. He has been up here all day, so--the
    committee now welcomes Chairman Graves and Ranking Member
    Larsen from the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure.
        As a reminder, we have read your written statements, and we
    ask that you limit your testimony to 5 minutes each and make
    sure that your mike is turned on as we can hear you, but we
    want to make sure the live feed can as well.
        I now recognize Chairman Graves for 5 minutes, followed by
    Ranking Member Mr. Larsen.
        Mr. Graves.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. SAM GRAVES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
                       FROM THE STATE OF MISSOURI

        Mr. Graves. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member. I
    appreciate the opportunity to share with you today the
    Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure's budget request
    for this Congress, 118th.
        In consultation with the Ranking Member, the committee has
    requested an 8-percent increase over our 2022 funding levels,
    and that level reflects an inflation-based increase and is
    going to provide the committee with the necessary resources to
    tackle our aggressive legislative and oversight agenda for this
    Congress.
        On the legislative front, the committee already has begun
    discussions on reauthorizing several major agencies and
    programs under the committee's vast jurisdiction. These include
    the Coast Guard; Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety
    Administration, PHMSA; the National Transportation Safety
    Board, which is obviously leading the investigation into the
    recent Ohio freight train derailment; the Maritime
    Administration; and the Federal Maritime Commission; and the
    committee's biggest undertaking, the reauthorization of FAA,
    which is set to expire on October 1st.
        The committee also plans to undertake the regular review of
    Army Corps projects and programs in 2024. Equally important,
    the committee must provide oversight over the many laws and
    funding that was passed last Congress, including the
    Infrastructure Investment & Jobs Act, the Inflation Reduction
    Act, the American Rescue Plan, and the CHIPS Act. These laws
    represent nearly a trillion dollars in spending across every
    area of the committee's jurisdiction, from DOT to GSA, and FEMA
    to the Coast Guard.
        The American people expect to ensure that the
    administration spends--expect us to ensure that the
    administration spends those dollars wisely and according to the
    law, and there is a shared interest in conducting that
    oversight.
        As part of that oversight effort, the committee plans a
    very robust travel agenda, and it is going to include official
    field hearings and also oversight of infrastructure projects
    and programs across the country. Infrastructure impacts every
    single corner of the country, and each community has very
    diverse needs, and we intend to get out there and see that
    firsthand.
        In addition, the budget accounts for the fact that the
    staff salary cap was raised last Congress, and the committee is
    very lucky to have many long-tenured staffers with very vast--
    some vast institutional knowledge, and so our proposed budget
    is going to help the committee with staff retention as much as
    anything, but also allows us to be competitive in bringing on
    new staff to deliver on our legislative and oversight agenda.
        With that, I look forward to answering any questions you
    have, and I yield back.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Graves follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Loudermilk. Mr. Larsen.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. RICK LARSEN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
                      FROM THE STATE OF WASHINGTON

        Mr. Larsen. Chair and Ranking Member and other members of
    the committee, I appreciate the opportunity to join Chair
    Graves in presenting the Committee on Transportation and
    Infrastructure budget request for the 118th.
        The T&I Committee has a long history of bipartisan
    cooperation with both sides realizing the importance of
    investing in our Nation's infrastructure, ensuring the safety
    of our transportation systems, and creating jobs. I expect that
    cooperation to continue under Chair Graves' leadership.
        Now, just looking back to the 117th Congress, we passed
    bipartisan legislation authorizing the U.S. Coast Guard and a
    fifth consecutive and bipartisan Water Resources Development
    Act. We also acted decisively to bolster our economy, to limit
    the fallout from COVID-19, the pandemic, while modernizing and
    transforming the way people and goods move with the passage of
    several landmark bills, pieces of the American Rescue Plan,
    pieces of the Inflation Reduction Act, pieces of the CHIPS and
    Science Act, and of course the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law.
        Part of the committee's focus this year will be oversight
    of these bills, particularly the BIL, to ensure that funds we
    provided are being used for the intended purposes. I look
    forward to working with Chair Graves to do just that.
        As the Chair noted, we have a full legislative agenda for
    the 118th Congress. First and foremost, we must pass
    legislation reauthorizing the FAA before the end of September.
    The committee also intends to reauthorize the National
    Transportation Safety Board, the Coast Guard, the Maritime
    Administration, Federal Maritime Commission, and the Pipeline
    and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration's pipeline safety
    programs.
        For us to do the job for the American people, we request
    that you fund the T&I Committee at a modest increase of 8
    percent over our 2022 funding level. This funding will be used
    to ensure we can retain the oversight and infrastructure
    specialists who can help us achieve all of our objectives and
    accommodate a significant increase in travel costs due to the
    lack of travel during the past few years.
        The committee has a robust and bipartisan travel plan, to
    include both domestic and international travel, that will help
    inform our legislative agenda and allow for greater oversight
    of the projects and programs under the committee's
    jurisdiction.
        As in the past, the committee will continue to provide two-
    thirds of the personnel budget to the majority and one-third to
    the minority. The nonpersonnel budget, like travel and other
    things, will continue to be shared fairly between the majority
    and minority.
        I look forward to a strong partnership with the Chair this
    year in the 118th Congress, and, with your help, the Committee
    on T&I will achieve our shared objectives and be one of the
    most productive committees in the 118th Congress.
        Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today,
    and happy to answer any questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Larsen follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Loudermilk. Well, thank you, and appreciate you being
    here to testify.
        As you mentioned, the committee--your legislative agenda in
    the 118th Congress includes reauthorizing policies and programs
    for the FAA, Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety
    Administration, National Transportation Safety Board, U.S.
    Coast Guard, Maritime Administration, and Federal Maritime
    Commission, as well as beginning to develop the 2024 Water
    Resources Development Act, which authorizes projects and
    policies of the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers. You are going to
    be a little bit busy, I think.
        In your budget submission, you mentioned all these
    activities will require the committee to leverage outside
    technology and software. What technology software is the
    committee evaluating, and how will that software assist the
    committee in getting through this heavy legislative agenda in
    the 118th Congress? Mr. Chairman?
        Mr. Graves. So that the software we are using, we use--what
    is it? The HOP? What was it? HOPS, which we obviously track
    our--you know, the salaries and our leaves and stuff like that,
    which our personnel office is using, too, and so we are
    obviously trying to bring the committee up to speed and--you
    know, in utilizing that technology, doing the best we can to--
    you know, to provide that interactive, you know, that
    opportunity.
        Also for people to be able to tie in when it comes to--we
    are also using technology and software when it comes to doing
    the earmark process through WRDA, and, in the last--you know,
    in the infrastructure bill that we were working on, you know,
    allows the access to that and being able to pull that
    information down. So----
        Mr. Loudermilk. So the software is pretty critical?
        Mr. Graves. The software is extraordinarily critical.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Okay.
        Mr. Graves. Yes. We need to keep up with them, yes.
        Mr. Loudermilk. This is an upgrade of the existing software
    you have?
        Mr. Graves.
        [Nonverbal response.]
        Mr. Loudermilk. Okay. The only other question I have, the
    committee's budget request includes 203,765 in funding to pay
    for subscriptions to publications. If the House were to
    consider providing additional subscriptions on an
    enterprisewide level, which subscriptions would be most
    beneficial to your committee?
        Mr. Graves. Going back to what I was mentioning earlier,
    too, we obviously have to--with some of that software, there
    comes a subscription with that as well, and then obviously
    keeping up with everything that goes on in the, you know,
    entire transportation industry and what goes along with that.
        Updating that software is probably the biggest thing when
    we talk about updating. The subscriptions that tie into that is
    just like the HOPS software that goes along with tracking
    salaries and leave and everything that goes with that. It
    requires a subscription as well, not just the initial cost of
    the software.
        Mr. Loudermilk. Alright. Well, at this point, that is all
    the questions I have.
        I now recognize Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle, for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Good afternoon, Chairman Graves, and Ranking
    Member Larsen. Thanks for being here. Thanks for all you do.
        Just a couple of really quick questions.
        We asked a couple of Chairs about this. In the last
    Congress, when it came to field hearings and scheduling them
    and coordinating them, there was a sort of system developed
    that includes the Sergeant at Arms, the Capitol Police, and the
    Clerk's Office for purposes of court reporters, Chief
    Administrative Officer, office responsible for broadcasting,
    live-streaming, et cetera.
        Do you intend to continue to use that system, which we
    think saved a fair amount of time and money? Do you expect to
    utilize that, sir?
        Mr. Graves. I fully do and you know, we haven't done a lot.
    In fact, all of us in Congress, we haven't done a whole lot of
    travel the last couple of years, obviously because of COVID and
    the pandemic. You know, we are going to do a lot of travel with
    this committee, and just simply because the travel itself is,
    you know, is part of our jurisdiction, you know, the biggest
    part of our jurisdiction overall, but we intend--absolutely. We
    intend to utilize the same system----
        Mr. Morelle. Very good.
        Mr. Graves [continuing]. that we had in the past.
        Mr. Morelle. I appreciate the fact that you've agreed on
    the allocation of the split between the majority and minority.
    In your written submission, you indicated that the minority
    would not have any impediments to using their allocation. I
    assume you are going to continue to commit to that, sir?
        Mr. Graves. Yes. Yes. We don't have a problem at all with--
    you know, and we can adjust that, too, if we need to, but Rick
    and I have a pretty good relationship.
        Mr. Morelle. Good.
        Mr. Larsen, you feel confident that you will continue to
    have access to your resources, and you are comfortable with the
    allocations?
        Mr. Larsen. Yes. The allocation is a traditional allocation
    for this committee. I can't speak to other committees. It is
    traditional for this committee, and I don't know of any
    circumstance in my 22 years in Congress where the existing
    majority tried to grab into the minority's allocation. I have
    no concern at all about that.
        I will take Chair Graves' offer to increase that allocation
    that he just said at any time, so--but yes.
        Mr. Morelle. You are willing to accept that?
        Mr. Larsen. I would be willing to deign to accept that,
    absolutely.
        Mr. Morelle. Well, very good. I appreciate both of you
    being here, for the good work that you do.
        With that, I will yield back, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman.
        [Presiding.] Chairman Graves, Ranking Member Larsen, thank
    you both for coming before us today. This, today's hearing,
    before our markup next week, is really our commitment to
    returning to regular order in the House and restoring
    transparency to the American people, and appreciate both of
    your testimony here today. Have a good day.
        Mr. Larsen. Thank you, Chair.
        Mr. Graves. Thanks, Chairman and Ranking Member.
        The Chairman. The committee is going to stand in recess
    subject to the call of the Chair.
        [Recess.]
        The Chairman. The Committee on House Administration is
    called back to order.
        We thank Chairman Lucas for joining us here today on a busy
    day. This is our commitment to returning to regular order, to
    improving transparency for the American people and particularly
    budget requests that this hearing is about and the markup that
    will take place next week.
        We will recognize you, Mr. Chairman, for 5 minutes, for
    opening remarks. I will have 5 minutes for both the majority
    and the minority in total to ask questions, and we will make it
    to votes before those are wrapped up.
        With that Mr. Chairman, I yield to you 5 minutes for an
    opening statement.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. FRANK D. LUCAS, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

        Mr. Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Ranking
    Member and members of the committee.
        I appreciate this opportunity to discuss the funding for
    the Science Committee today. Before I begin, I would like to
    commend the chairman for restarting the formal budget process.
    I am a strong proponent of regular order, and I believe this
    process will pay off with increased transparency and more
    efficient spending.
        Unfortunately, my Ranking Member, Congresswoman Zoe
    Lofgren, couldn't join us today, but let me assure you this is
    a bipartisan request we are submitting today.
        For the record, I would like to submit comments from the
    ranking member of the Science Committee.
        The Chairman. Without objection.
        [The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Mr. Lucas. Thank you. Let me say right off the bat that our
    committee's request budget does contain some thoughtful
    considered increases. It is our aim to act responsibly when it
    comes to spending taxpayers' dollars, which is why these
    increases have been limited to only what is absolutely
    necessary.
        Our priorities include funding a robust oversight program,
    resources for increased field hearings and site visits,
    modernization of our workspace, and modest increases in staff
    salaries to meet--to be--stay competitive with personnel
    offices in the private sector.
        All told, our budget increase calls for a 23.5-percent
    increase over last year. When considering that request, it is
    worth noting that our personal offices received a 21-percent
    increase in their MRAs last Congress. Standing committees
    received significantly less in order to fund multiple select
    committees.
        It is also important to note that the Science Committee's
    responsibilities have grown dramatically over the past few
    years. The purpose of the Science Committee is to ensure that
    the United States maintains our global economic, scientific,
    and technological leadership. That work is more important now
    than ever as we face a growing threat from the Chinese
    Communist Party.
        If given the chance, the CCP would not only take market
    share from us but will also seek to impose their values on
    critically developing technologies like artificial
    intelligence, quantum information sciences, unmanned aerial
    vehicles. We cannot afford the economic, political, or national
    security consequences of falling behind the CCP.
        In addition to driving American innovation and countering
    the threat from the CCP, our committee is tasked with providing
    oversight for a substantial portion of the science agencies to
    protect taxpayers' resources and ensure that we are meeting our
    strategic goals.
        Since the budget for this committee was last set, there has
    been a significant increase in the importance of and scope of
    our policy area. Several major legislative initiatives,
    including the Energy Act of 2020, the CHIPS and Science Act,
    the Inflation Reduction Act, and the Infrastructure Investment
    & Jobs Act, dramatically increased the budgets of departments
    and agencies under our supervision.
        For example, in addition to the committee's regular
    oversight of roughly $15 billion in annual appropriations at
    the Department of Energy, we will now be overseeing an
    additional $45 billion in appropriations included in the IRA
    and the IIJA. There are plenty more examples just like this.
    The National Institutes of Standards and Technology, an agency
    with an annual budget of around a billion dollars, received $52
    billion in mandatory funding in the CHIPS and Science Act to
    support domestic semiconductor manufacturing.
        This increase in spending across our agencies must be
    accomplished by an increase--I should say accompanied by an
    increase in congressional oversight. To do this, we need
    additional policy staff with expertise in highly technical
    issue areas, such as quantum computing, fusion energy, advanced
    air mobility, and climate sciences. The competitive jobs market
    for these roles, combined with higher cost of living, mean the
    committee must increase our payroll budget if we are going to
    find staff capable of fulfilling our expanded oversight
    responsibilities.
        I am looking forward to a productive year ahead as the
    Science Committee empowers American innovation and ensures
    taxpayers are getting the maximum return on their investments
    in research and development.
        I appreciate your time today and as you notice, I am
    attempting to be very prompt, and look forward to answering
    your questions.
        [The prepared statement of Mr. Lucas follows:]

    [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        The Chairman. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
        We will now take 5 minutes from the majority and then 5 for
    the minority for the purpose of asking questions.
        I will yield to Ms. Bice for 5 minutes.
        Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say thank you
    to my fellow Oklahoman and Chairman of the SST Committee,
    Congressman Lucas, for being here this afternoon.
        Congressman, what impact has the increase in the speaker's
    pay order in the 117th Congress and the competitive job market
    for staff with knowledge and expertise in the highly technical
    issue areas that we have to oversee in SST had on the personnel
    portion of the committee's budget?
        Mr. Lucas. Well, it has had a big impact, and it is the big
    reason that we are requesting an increase in our budget
    payroll. The changes to the Speaker's pay order and the
    significant increase in personal office MRAs last Congress has
    undoubtedly shifted upward the pay scale across all levels of
    Capitol Hill, and this is a good thing.
        For us to be competitive in hiring and recruiting the staff
    necessary to enact our agenda, we have got to follow suit, and
    we have to increase our staff salaries if we are going to have
    competent people.
        Mrs. Bice. Do you believe that is because of the technical
    expertise that these individuals need to have to be able to
    provide----
        Mr. Lucas. Absolutely.
        Mrs. Bice [continuing]. information to the committee?
        Mr. Lucas. Many of the disciplines that we deal with in the
    Science Committee are very challenging, complex, hard sciences.
    There is only a limited number of people available, and they
    are the kind of people that industry and the administration
    looks for, too. We have got to have folks who can work with us
    to ask the right questions, to look in the right corners. If we
    don't spend the money, we are not going to get them, and then
    we won't have effective oversight. We spend a lot of money that
    we need to make sure it is well spent.
        Mrs. Bice. Thank you.
        In the answers to the budget questionnaire, you mentioned
    that the committee is in the process of researching and
    procuring document management software and have budgeted
    $80,000 for each session for this purpose.
        Are you looking to buy an off-the-shelf program, or is this
    custom-made software?
        Mr. Lucas. Staff is still doing the research, but I would
    anticipate off the shelf. I want to have an effective program
    to deal with this mountain of information coming and going, but
    by the same token, I think off the shelf is--if it is
    available, is the most cost-effective route. We don't need to
    create something special for the Science Committee.
        Mrs. Bice. For the record, I agree.
        Mr. Chairman, that is the end of my questioning. I yield
    back.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much.
        The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member, Mr. Morelle,
    for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Morelle. Thanks so much.
        Thank you, Chairman Lucas, for being here. I appreciate
    your comments about the expanded work that the committee will
    have to do.
        I had the privilege of debating the rule on the CHIPS and
    Science Act. Grateful that it passed, and we have a great deal
    of work to do both from a national and economic security point
    of view, and your committee is going to have a lot of
    responsibility for that.
        Just a couple of things that you could help me better
    appreciate. I know, in the--first of all, the overall increase
    from the 117th to 118th Congresses, I did the fast math. It is
    about a third of an increase, about 33-percent increase over
    the 2-year period. When you sort of look at it, obviously fair
    amount of that is in personnel. Is it an increase in terms of
    the number--the census of workers, or do you expect a dramatic
    increase because of the type of people you are looking for will
    require higher compensation?
        Mr. Lucas. I would say it is a combination of both, but the
    most dramatic thing will just simply be the quality of
    individuals that we have to have. We have outstanding people
    now. Maintaining their position on the committee staff and
    their enthusiasm will be important, too.
        When you have literally the amount of dollars that have
    been allocated and are flowing through the Department of Energy
    and other Federal agencies, being able to oversee all of that,
    my personal perspective, as I have mentioned to the various
    members of the committee, is CHIPS and Science is an example of
    where we made a dramatic commitment of resources in Congress to
    boldly step forward in a direction that we were falling behind
    in. Whether it is AI or quantum, there are a variety of other
    things out there that may require this sort of an effort in the
    future, perhaps near future, but in the future.
        I want to demonstrate that we were wise and efficient
    stewards of the citizens' resources with CHIPS and Science as
    an example because then they will trust us when we have to do
    something big and bold again. If we don't do that work, they
    might not ever give us the chance again when we really
    desperately would need it to move forward aggressively.
        Mr. Morelle. Thank you for that.
        I notice too that you have about 300,000 in the budget--
    300--I thought it was about 300,000. I am looking for it, but
    in any way--case, correct me if I am wrong on field hearings,
    but I didn't see any hearings actually scheduled.
        When do you anticipate having sort of an idea of where you
    will go for field hearings?
        Mr. Lucas. When I have a better feel for the resources that
    will be available to me----
        Mr. Morelle. Well, let's assume that it was as you
    requested.
        Mr. Lucas. We have a myriad of national labs scattered all
    across the country that--some of which have existed since the
    1930's. Going and seeing them and addressing their
    infrastructure needs, the challenges they face. We have a
    variety of regular department research programs from Department
    of Energy on down going on. We have a number of universities,
    institutions are doing cutting-edge research.
        Taking the members out in the field to see what is going
    on, to learn what the priorities should be, to verify the use
    of the resources, the committee is essentially brand new
    membershipwise, and help bringing our people up to speed, both
    Republicans and Democrats, is critically important.
        That is part of why I am so pleased with the relationship I
    had with my predecessor, Chairman Johnson, and now working
    wonderfully with my Ranking Member Lofgren. We are going to do
    this as a team.
        Mr. Morelle. Well, as one of the people who is a
    particularly big booster of the regional innovation hubs, I am
    hoping to maybe invite you up to----
        Mr. Lucas. Absolutely.
        Mr. Morelle [continuing]. Upstate New York. We would love
    to have you.
        One other--two quick matters, but one is, under what is
    called ``other services,'' I was looking--there is no further
    description in the chart. A big increase from 13,000 to
    170,000. Can you just tell me essentially what that is for? Do
    you know?
        I am trying to look in the detail. I don't necessarily see
    it. Nonspecialized training went up 75,000; and other services,
    an additional 82,000, it looks like to me.
        It is primarily for IT? Yes. It looks like it is primarily
    web support and IT. Is that your understanding?
        Mr. Lucas. That would be the logical response, yes.
        Voice. It is for the minority, I believe.
        Mr. Morelle. Okay. Then one--and I apologize. I just--one
    last question. I didn't see it in the written material, but
    typically I have been asking the chairs whether or not, given
    the allotment, two-thirds/one-third, whether or not you will
    commit to allowing the minority access to their resources
    without impacting that?
        Mr. Lucas. Absolutely. The customary relationship. I had a
    wonderful one as Ranking Member for 4 years with Chairwoman
    Johnson. I intend to have a wonderful one with Ranking Member
    Lofgren.
        Mr. Morelle. Great. Thanks so much for your service, sir.
        Mr. Lucas. We work together on the committee.
        Mr. Morelle. Yep. Yep. Thank you for being here.
        I yield back.
        The Chairman. Thank you very much for your testimony today,
    Mr. Lucas. I appreciate you being part of our commitment to
    reestablishing regular order and transparency.
        Without objection, each member, including our witnesses,
    will have 5 legislative days to insert additional materials
    into the record or to revise and extend their remarks.
        If there is no further business, I thank the members for
    their participation.
        Without objection, the committee stands adjourned.
        [Whereupon, at 1:42 p.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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