[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE CONSEQUENCES OF CRIMINAL ALIENS ON
U.S. COMMUNITIES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY,
SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
THURSDAY, JULY 13, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-34
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Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
53-028 WASHINGTON : 2023
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair
DARRELL ISSA, California JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking
KEN BUCK, Colorado Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California
MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM McCLINTOCK, California HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin Georgia
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ADAM SCHIFF, California
CHIP ROY, Texas ERIC SWALWELL, California
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina TED LIEU, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin J. LUIS CORREA, California
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
BEN CLINE, Virginia JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
LANCE GOODEN, Texas LUCY McBATH, Georgia
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
TROY NEHLS, Texas VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
BARRY MOORE, Alabama DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
KEVIN KILEY, California CORI BUSH, Missouri
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming GLENN IVEY, Maryland
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas BECCA BALINT, Vermont
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
AND ENFORCEMENT
TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair
KEN BUCK, Colorado PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington,
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona Ranking Member
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin ZOE LOFGREN, California
CHIP ROY, Texas J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TROY NEHLS, Texas DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
BARRY MOORE, Alabama ERIC SWALWELL, California
WESLEY HUNT, Texas Vacancy
CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
C O N T E N T S
----------
Thursday, July 13, 2023
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of California.................................................. 1
The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee
on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the
State of Washington............................................ 3
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on
the Judiciary from the State of New York....................... 5
WITNESSES
Bradley Schoenleben, Senior Deputy District Attorney, Orange
County District Attorney's Office
Oral Testimony................................................. 7
Prepared Testimony............................................. 9
John Fabbricatore, Former Field Office Director, U.S. Immigration
and Customs Enforcement
Oral Testimony................................................. 14
Prepared Testimony............................................. 16
Ramon Batista, Police Chief, Santa Monica, California
Oral Testimony................................................. 21
Prepared Testimony............................................. 23
Donald Rosenberg, President, Advocates for Victims of Illegal
Alien Crime
Oral Testimony................................................. 27
Prepared Testimony............................................. 29
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed
below.......................................................... 62
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
A study entitled, ``Can Sanctuary Policies Reduce Domestic
Violence?'' May 2020, Working Paper, The Center for
Growth and Opportunity
An article entitled, ``Do Sanctuary Policies Increase Crime?
Contrary Evidence from a County-Level Investigation in
the United States,'' May 19, 2020, Social Science
Research
An article entitled, ``Immigrant Sanctuary Policies and
Crime-Reporting Behavior: A Multilevel Analysis of
Reports of Crime Victimization to Law Enforcement, 1980
to 2004,'' 2021, American Sociological Association
An article entitled, ``The Local Effects of Federal Law
Enforcement Policies: Evidence from Sanctuary
Jurisdictions and Crime,'' 2022, Contemporary Economic
Policy
Materials submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement from the State of California, for the record
A letter to the Honorable Alejandro Mayorkas, Secretary, U.S.
Department of Homeland Security, from the Honorables
Young Kim, the Honorable J. Luis Correa, and the
Honorable Mike Levin, June 15, 2023
A letter to Juan Gabriel Valdes, Ambassador of Chile, Embassy
of Chile, from the Honorables Mike Levin and J. Luis
Correa, June 15, 2023
A letter to the Honorable Alejandro Mayorkas, Secretary, U.S.
Department of Homeland Security and Secretary of State
Blinken, from the Honorable J. Luis Correa, June 6, 2023
A letter to Todd Spitzer, District Attorney, Orage County,
California, from the Juan Gabriel Valdes, Ambassador of
Chile, Embassy of Chile, June 14, 2023
A letter to the Honorable J. Luis Correa, from Assistant
Secretary for Legislative Affairs, U.S. Department of
Homeland Security, July 12, 2023
A letter to the Honorable J. Luis Correa, from Juan Gabriel
Valdes, Ambassador of Chile, Embassy of Chile, June 16,
2023
A report from the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE)
and the Enforcement and Removal Operations (ERO), July 6, 2023,
submitted by the Honorable Victoria Spartz, a Member of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Indiana, for the record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
A statement from the Asian Pacific Institute on Gender-Based
Violence (API-GBV), July 13, 2023
A statement from ASISTA Immigration Assistance, July 12, 2023
A statement from Church World Service (CWS)
A statement from Detention Watch Network (DWN)
A statement from Esperanza United, July 12, 2023
A statement from National Network to End Domestic Violence
(NNEDV), July 13, 2023
A statement from Tahirih Justice Center, July 12, 2023
A letter to the Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of California, from Sandra
Henriquez, CEO, ValorUS, July 12, 2023
THE CONSEQUENCES OF CRIMINAL ALIENS ON U.S. COMMUNITIES
----------
Thursday, July 13, 2023
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3 p.m., in Room
2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Tom McClintock [Chair
of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives McClintock, Jordan, Buck,
Biggs, Tiffany, Roy, Spartz, Van Drew, Nehls, Moore, Hunt,
Jayapal, Nadler, Correa, Escobar, Jackson Lee, and Ross.
Mr. McClintock. The House Judiciary Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement will come to
order. Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
recess at any time.
The Subcommittee meets today to examine the consequences of
criminal aliens on U.S. communities. We'll begin with the
opening statements of the Chair and Ranking Member.
Yesterday, FBI Director Christopher Wray testified before
the House Judiciary Committee that the open southern border
poses a huge security risk for our Nation, his words, and that
they attract a significant increase in crime, criminal cartel
activity, and gang-related cartels because of this crisis. More
than 5.5 million illegal aliens have been encountered at the
Southwest border since Joe Biden became President. Over 2.1
million illegal aliens at the border have been released into
the United States in that same period of time. More than one
and a half million known got-aways have evaded law enforcement
and entered the country since January 2021. Among the one and a
half million known got-aways, there is no way to estimate the
number of terrorists and criminals entering the country.
We do know this. By surrendering to Border Patrol, you're
virtually assured now of being released into the country. The
one and a half million who have evaded border patrol have done
so for a reason. They're either conducting criminal activity or
they're hiding criminal records.
Adding to this threat is the fact that the administration
has essentially adopted the sanctuary policies that prevent
many dangerous illegal aliens from being deported after they
have been convicted and incarcerated for committing other
crimes while in the United States. According to Mr. Mayorkas'
enforcement priorities, quote, ``whether a noncitizen poses a
current threat to public safety is not to be determined
according to bright lines or categories.'' So much for the rule
of law.
The result of such prioritization is that few criminal
aliens are arrested and removed. The numbers speak for
themselves. In Fiscal Year 2020, the last year of the Trump
Administration, ICE removed 186,000 aliens from the United
States. Two years into the Biden Administration, deportations
have plunged to only 72,000, and that's a decline of more 60
percent. The Trump Administration removed 104,000 convicted
criminals from the country in Fiscal Year 2020, yet the Biden
Administration only removed 38,000 in Fiscal Year 2022.
Now, that requires repeating. The number of convicted
criminal aliens removed from our country has declined by nearly
two-thirds under this administration. Similarly in 2020, the
Biden Administration removed just 60 percent of the number of
known or suspected gang members as the Trump Administration had
done just two years prior.
Now, explain to me how this makes our communities safer.
Does anyone seriously believe that making it harder to remove
criminal illegal aliens from our communities makes our
community safer? Does anyone really believe that letting
millions of unvetted foreign nationals into our communities
makes our communities safer?
Many of these aliens arrived deeply indebted to cartels
whose affiliated gangs follow them into our communities to
enforce those debts, often by pressing them into drug
trafficking and human trafficking. The cartel massacre of an
entire family just hit Tulare, California, a rural community
not far from my district. The cartels are here because we have
let them in.
As Director Wray testified yesterday; we have no idea how
many terrorists have now entered the country as well. The
crimes committed by criminal aliens aren't just statistics.
Every crime devastates the victims of it, their families, their
neighborhoods, and their communities as we will hear today.
The sexual assault of a three-year-old at a Chicago
McDonald's, the sexual assault and murder of a 92-year-old
woman in Queens, New York, the murder of a college student in
Iowa, the sexual assault and murder of a 20-year-old girl in
Maryland, the assault of a teenage girl in Alabama, the assault
and robbery of two friends at a Maryland park, the attempted
abduction of a four-year-old girl in Virginia, the murder of a
15-year-old boy in Maryland, and the list goes on and on in
heartbreaking detail.
These Democratic policies might create sanctuaries for
criminal illegal aliens, but they are creating a dystopian
nightmare for law-abiding citizens and noncitizens alike who
must live in them.
Now, we have a new phenomenon, crime tourism. In the past
several years, criminal gangs, largely from Chile, have
exploited the visa waiver program to shake once quiet
communities across the United States with million-dollar
heists, from Southern California to Florida, and burglaries of
family homes from New York to Virginia. These criminal aliens
continue their crime sprees across the country. In sanctuary
jurisdictions, they largely escape accountability.
Today, our witnesses will describe these real, live,
everyday consequences of crimes that would not occur at all
save for the fact that we are not enforcing our immigration
laws. If we simply enforced those laws, there'd be fewer
criminal aliens in the country and fewer crimes committed by
them. It is that simple. I now recognize the Ranking Member for
five minutes.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to start by just
taking a moment to express my deepest condolences to Mr.
Rosenberg. You have experienced a profound loss, and I am so
sorry for that. I appreciate your coming to share Drew's story
with us today.
Mr. Chair, I'm glad to see that we're having an immigration
hearing that's not solely focused on the border. Unfortunately,
I worry that today's hearing will feature more of the same
dangerous and harmful rhetoric that some of my colleagues use
to demonize and scapegoat immigrants.
For the last six months, and really since President Biden
took office, my colleagues have fearmongered about the border
and asylum-seekers seeking refuge. This reached a fever pitch
in May, when the administration was set to end Title 42 public
health policy. We were told that ending this policy, that's
supposed to be about public health and not about immigration,
would result in high numbers of migrants coming across the
border and that the administration was not prepared to deal
with the influx.
There was no influx. Like it or not, President Biden's
border plan appears to be working. Over the past two months,
border numbers have fallen nearly 70 percent despite every
projection to the contrary. Politico has called it the migrant
crisis that still hasn't arrived.
So, unable to further stoke fears about the border, my
colleagues then turn to discussing the potential impeachment of
Secretary Mayorkas during a hearing last month. I was very
pleased to see that, following the hearing, some of our
Republican colleagues on the Committee, including the Chair of
this Subcommittee, expressed appropriate reservations about
impeaching the Secretary. I hope that my colleagues will
realize that we can disagree about immigration policy without
resorting to impeachment.
Unable to move farther down the path on impeachment in this
Committee, this Committee handed off that investigation to the
House Homeland Security Committee. Now, it appears that my
Republican colleagues are pivoting to painting immigrants as
criminals. As we discussed at our last hearing, Congress has
never appropriated, and no administration has ever requested,
sufficient resources to detain all noncitizens who fall under
the, quote, ``mandatory detention categories.''
Even former President Trump never tried to detain all
migrants. In fact, DHS' own data shows over 500,000 releases at
the U.S.-Mexico border under the Trump Administration.
Likewise, no administration has ever requested or been
provided the resources to remove all undocumented noncitizens.
There are currently about 11 million undocumented individuals
in the United States, and, given the Department of Homeland
Security's finite resources, prosecutorial discretion is an
essential tool in managing the immigration system.
When President Biden took office, his administration moved
to implement a targeted set of enforcement priorities. These
priorities, while not perfect, attempt to focus finite
resources on the removal of individuals deemed to be a threat
to public safety, national security, or border security.
Although this was initially blocked in the lower courts, in
June, the Supreme Court held that States cannot challenge the
Executive Branch's authority to establish enforcement
priorities. The Court also ruled that courts do not have the
authority to order law enforcement to carry out arrests and
deportation.
The Biden Administration has stated that it plans to
reimplement these enforcement priorities. Prosecutorial
discretion in enforcement has long been an essential element of
the Executive Branch's authority. I am glad that the Biden
Administration, the Department of Homeland Security, can move
forward with immigration enforcement priorities.
However, I do remain concerned about the administration's
reliance on State and local law enforcement to carry out
immigration enforcement. Local law enforcement needs to have
the trust of all members of the Community, including
immigrants, to do their jobs. That trust is eroded when local
law enforcement is tasked with enforcing Federal immigration
policy.
The Major Cities Chiefs Association has previously noted
that if law enforcement officers are viewed by members of the
immigrant community as colluding or working with immigration
law enforcement officers, this would, quote,
Result in increased crime against immigrants in the broader
community, create a class of silent victims, and eliminate the
potential for assistance from immigrants in solving crimes or
preventing future terrorist acts.
The Major Cities Chiefs Association has also explained that
cooperation with the immigrant community is a crucial part of
solving crime and preventing further criminal activity within
the entire community.
Congress recognized this dynamic with strong bipartisan
support when we created the U visa program to protect immigrant
victims and witnesses of crime to encourage those immigrants to
come forward, report crimes, and cooperate with law enforcement
to solve crimes. It's worth noting that when local law
enforcement is deputized to enforce Federal immigration law, it
makes it far more difficult for victims of domestic violence
and sexual assault to seek protection and it empowers their
abusers. So, I am sure we will hear a lot about immigrants in
crime today.
Demonizing all immigrants and attempting to scare the
public while using White nationalist rhetoric is straight out
of Steven Miller and former President Trump's playbook. The
reality is immigrants commit crimes at lower levels. This type
of rhetoric only fuels a rising hate that we have seen against
immigrant communities.
I do want to note that one of the witnesses is here to
discuss Chilean nationals potentially abusing the visa waiver
program. If any immigrant is abusing the immigration system, I
think we all agree this is something that DHS should be looking
into. The visa waiver program is a privilege that we award to
certain countries. It is not a right.
I look forward to hearing from all our witnesses and the
perspectives that they bring on this issue. Thank you, Mr.
Chair. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes the
Ranking Member of the Judiciary Committee, Mr. Nadler, for an
opening statement.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to start by
offering my condolences to Mr. Rosenberg. No parent should ever
have to go through the pain of losing a child. I thank you for
sharing Drew's story with the Committee today.
Mr. Chair, today's hearing is on a topic that requires
delicacy and nuance, two things the current House majority has
struggled with in the past. No one on this dais wants dangerous
criminals out on the streets regardless of their immigration
status, but we have to be careful not to paint all immigrants
with a broad brush. Implying that all undocumented immigrants
are criminals who wish to harm our country only lends credence
to conspiracy theories that have already taken far too many
lives.
Next month, we will commemorate the anniversary of the El
Paso shooting. On August 3, 2019, a domestic terrorist walked
into a Walmart in El Paso, Texas, and murdered 23 people and
injured 22 others. He posted a hateful and racist manifesto
online prior to the attack espousing White nationalist
theories, like the ``great replacement'' theory, and claiming
that there was a Hispanic invasion. He told investigators that
he was targeting Mexicans. Last week, the shooter was sentenced
to 90 consecutive life sentences by a Federal judge. No time in
prison will help those grieving families get their loved ones
back, nor will it help heal the physical, mental, and emotional
wounds of the survivors. It won't stop with the next attack.
It is for this reason that we must tread carefully. This is
an important topic, and I look forward to a spirited debate
with my colleagues on the other side of the aisle. We cannot
add fuel to a fire that has already left so much devastation in
its wake.
We all want to protect our country. We all want to keep
people safe. We have different ways of achieving those goals.
The administration takes on national security very seriously.
That is why they put in place enforcement guidelines that,
while not perfect, attempt to prioritize the removal of
dangerous individuals.
The previous administration chose to paint everyone with a
broad brush. The Trump Administration created a set of
priorities that were so expansive, it included all undocumented
and otherwise removable immigrants in the country. A jaywalker
and a murderer were given the same degree of prioritization for
removal.
ICE started targeting people wherever they could find them,
near schools, hospitals, and even at houses of worship.
Undocumented immigrants who have been complying with ICE for
decades would arrive at the regular check-ins and be placed
into immigration detention without warning. People became
afraid of law enforcement and afraid of continuing to work with
ICE for fear that they too would be detained and removed.
When everyone is a target, no one feels safe. Targeting
undocumented immigrants who posed no threat to the country had
consequences. During President Trump's time in office, the
number of individuals in immigration detention who had been
convicted of serious felonies fell by 20 percent.
During that same time, the numbers of detained immigrants
grew. Soon immigrants with no criminal conviction at all became
the majority of detainees in ICE custody. When President Biden
took office, he directed DHS to prioritize targeting
individuals who pose a threat to national security, public
safety, and border security.
President Trump chose to target everyone. As a result, his
administration detained fewer people who committed serious
crimes. President Biden's goal was to use our finite resources
to prioritize detaining and removing those that pose the
biggest threats to us.
Unfortunately, Republican State Attorneys General who
disagreed with this goal sued to block the implementation of
these priorities. In 2022, the U.S. District Court for the
Southern District of Texas enjoined the policy, forcing the
administration to revert to the previous administration's
priorities, or lack thereof. Last month, in an eight to one
decision, the Supreme Court overturned the injunction ruling
that it was the Executive Branch's prerogative to set
enforcement priorities that the administration could once again
move forward with them.
Now that the administration is once again allowed to set
its own priorities, we will be able to see which approach will
be more effective. I thank the witnesses for coming today. I
look forward to hearing their testimony, and I yield back the
balance of my time.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Without objection, all other
opening statements will be included in the record. Let me now
introduce today's witnesses.
Our first witness is Bradley Schoenleben. Mr. Schoenleben
is a Senior Deputy District Attorney with the Orange County,
California District Attorney's Office. In 2017, the California
District Attorney Investigators Association recognized him as
California Prosecutor of the Year. More recently, Mr.
Schoenleben has helped to prosecute cases related to theft and
burglary by organized criminal alien gangs. He has a law degree
from Chapman University's Dale E. Fowler School of Law.
Our next witness will be Mr. John Fabbricatore. Mr. Fabbri-
catore is an Advisory Board Member with the National
Immigration Center for Enforcement. He started with the
Immigration and Naturalization Service in 1998 and retired from
the U.S. Immigration Customs Enforcement in 2022. He served in
many different positions including Deputy Field Office Director
for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement in the Denver,
Colorado area of responsibility before being promoted to Field
Office Director in 2020. He also received the Secretary of the
Department of Homeland Security silver medal for meritorious
service award.
Our third witness is Chief Ramon Batista. Mr. Batista is
Chief of Police for the city of Santa Monica, California, a
position he's held since October 2021. He began his law
enforcement career with the Tucson, Arizona Police Department
in 1986. In 2017, Mr. Batista was appointed Police Chief in
Mesa, Arizona. Mr. Batista has a bachelor's degree and master's
degree from Grand Canyon University.
Finally, we will hear from Mr. Donald Rosenberg. Mr.
Rosenberg is the founder of Advocates for Victims of Illegal
Alien Crime after an illegal alien driving without a license
killed his son, Drew, in 2010. Mr. Rosenberg founded the
organization to raise awareness of crimes committed by aliens
who are in the United States illegally. Mr. Rosenberg is a
former Entertainment and Publishing Executive who lives in
Southern California.
We welcome our witnesses and thank them for appearing
today. We'll begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise
and raise your right hand. Do you swear or affirm under penalty
of perjury the testimony you're about to give is true and
correct to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief
so help you God?
Let the record reflect the witnesses have answered in the
affirmative. Thank you. You may be seated. Please know that
your written testimony will be entered in the record in its
entirety. Accordingly, we'd ask that you summarize your
testimony in five minutes. We'll begin with Mr. Schoenleben.
STATEMENT OF BRADLEY SCHOENLEBEN
Mr. Schoenleben. Thank you, Chair McClintock, Ranking
Member Jayapal, Ranking Member Nadler, and distinguished
Members of this Committee. I'm both humbled and honored to be
in front of all of you today. Members, there is a loophole in
the Department of Homeland Security's ESTA visa waiver program
that has allowed hundreds of thousands of Chilean nationals,
including violent criminals, into the United States without the
required criminal background checks.
In just 2022, over 350,000 Chilean nationals entered the
United States utilizing the ESTA visa waiver program. Failure
to provide the criminal background checks has created a direct
pipeline between the United States and Chile for transnational
organized crime rings to shuttle convicted criminals into the
United States for the sole purpose of committing residential
and commercial burglaries, follow-home robberies, and thefts.
Americans across the country are being unknowingly surveilled
and stalked in their own homes, the very place they should feel
the safest.
In fact, in Ventura County, California, a staggering 76
percent of Chilean nationals arrested since 2019 entered the
United States through the ESTA program. In a June 15, 2023,
letter to Orange County District Attorney Todd Spitzer, Juan
Gabriel Valdez, Ambassador of Chile to the United States,
essentially admitted that this country was failing to provide
the necessary criminal history for visa waiver applicants.
Criminal history prohibits an applicant from being granted an
ESTA visa waiver.
Organized crime rings have seized this opportunity to
train, recruit, and deploy highly organized and sophisticated
teams of burglars across the United States to break into
American's homes and businesses. Make no mistake, these
criminals deploy sophisticated surveillance teams, high-tech
tools such as Wi-Fi jammers, cell phone jammers, electronic
trackers, and fake IDs to perfect their art of committing crime
and eluding capture.
Organized crime rings have--excuse me. Law enforcement
agencies across the Nation have raised alarms about the Chilean
nationals' abuse of ESTA, including Nassau County, New York;
Flagler County, Florida; Shelby County, Alabama; Williamson
County, Tennessee; and Los Angeles, Riverside, San Bernardino,
and Ventura County in California. In fact, right now, the FBI
is currently working with over 750 different law enforcement
agencies across the country on this very issue.
Orange County, California is simply a microcosm of the
issue being experienced as a result of transnational organized
criminals entering the United States through the ESTA visa
waiver program. A target-rich environment, combined with
California's soft-on-crime policies, and Federal failures to
verify criminal histories for Chilean visa waiver applicants
have created the perfect storm for crime. Without criminal
histories, courts are incapable of determining the true risk
posed by these offenders, resulting in release decisions and
sentences, ignorant of the dangers actually posed.
California sanctuary State status only compounds the
threat. We know that transnational criminals, including
Colombia nationals, are intentionally being arrested at the
border to gain entry into the United States knowing they will
be released quickly. On release, they commit crimes such as
residential burglary and so on. They utilize military-style
equipment, such as ghillie suits, to hid in the brush behind
Americans' homes, trackers to track victims to and from work to
utilize and maximize their window of opportunity.
With easy access to the United States and no punishment,
the reward far outweighs the risk. An Orange County victim of
these crimes recently talked about the messages that her
children gave her after being victimized by that crime. She
told the court that her children told her the following: I'm
afraid to play basketball in the backyard. I'm not going to go
upstairs by myself because someone may be up there. I'm afraid
of the dark. I'm so frightened that every light in the house
has to be on all night long.
Her triplets are 14 years old, and they are afraid of the
dark because this family now knows the terror that happens when
lights go out.
In failing to hold Chile accountable for refusing to
provide the required criminal background checks, the Department
of Homeland Security has failed in its duty to protect the
safety and security of our Nation and our citizens. The
Secretary of Homeland Security has statutory authority to
immediately terminate or suspend a country's designation in the
ESTA visa waiver program without notice if there's a credible
threat originating from that country which poses an imminent
danger to the United States or its citizens.
Members, on behalf of Orange County District Attorney Todd
Spitzer and law enforcement across the country, I respectfully
ask participation for Chile in the ESTA visa program be
suspended until Chile meets with the program requirements.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Schoenleben follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. Thank you very much. Next is Mr. Fabbri-
catore.
STATEMENT OF JOHN FABBRICATORE
Mr. Fabbricatore. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal,
and distinguished Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for
the opportunity to present testimony on the current State of
immigration enforcement. After decades service at ICE, I feel
compelled to testify today about the erosion of immigration
enforcement and lack of respect for the rule of law.
Every American should be concerned about what the Biden
Administration is doing. Their current policies are putting our
communities at risk and negatively affecting public safety and
national security. Right out the gate, Secretary Mayorkas began
to gut interior immigration enforcement with extremely narrow
enforcement priorities for ICE.
He justified it on the false premise that ICE couldn't
effectively enforce the law due to a lack of resources. ICE
statistics paint a grim picture of the effects of these
priorities. If you compare ICE arrests from 2018-2020, civil
arrests are down 69 percent.
Convicted criminal arrests are down 65 percent. Everything
from homicide to assaults to weapons offenses are down as high
as 61 percent. There are fewer criminals being arrested, plain
and simple.
I would further note that there are hundreds of thousands
of criminal aliens at large in the United States. The Biden
Administration has stated that there are over 400,000 convicted
criminals on the non-detain docket. Why aren't they a priority?
Furthermore, recidivist rates have shown from prior Fiscal
Year reports that most criminal aliens have additional criminal
convictions. In 2020, the 93,000 criminal aliens arrested by
ERO with criminal histories accounted for 374,000 criminal
charges and convictions, about four per alien. Even with the
paltry number of arrests made in 2022, the 46,000 aliens
arrested with criminal histories accounted for nearly 200,000
convictions and charges.
If the Biden Administration conducted interior enforcement
against criminal illegal aliens in the same manner as was
always done in the prior Republican and Democrat
Administrations I served in, there would have been another
90,000 aliens arrested who would've accounted for approximately
another 300,000 convictions and charges. As an ICE field office
director, I witnessed the deterioration of relationships with
local law enforcement agencies because of sanctuary policies.
Nationwide, we see a growing separation between ICE and local
law enforcement.
The belief that partnership between ICE and other law
enforcement entities breads distrust in immigrant communities
is false. Prior to the rise of sanctuary policies, detainers
were a useful tool. A detainer is placed on an alien who's been
arrested by State or local law enforcement.
Instead of releasing the alien back to the streets, the
detainer requires law enforcement agencies to hold the alien so
ICE may make an administrative arrest. Law enforcement used to
honor detainers more widely until policies were implemented
prohibiting the practice. In 2016, I was part of an operation
designed to target alien heroin traffickers.
When the mayor and city council members found out that ICE
was working with Denver police on this operation, Denver police
commanders were told to stop the operation and remove ICE from
the building. Denver police shut down the operation after only
two weeks when operationally 54 illegal aliens were arrested
for heroin-related crimes. Regardless of the results, Denver
refused to work with ICE, claiming that it disrupted their
ability to work with the immigrant community.
This argument is invalid as it allows citizens to die from
heroin overdoses rather than having local law enforcement and
ICE work together to save lives. In 2020, and illegal alien who
previously had DACA was arrested for murder for giving fentanyl
and cocaine to a 16-year-old girl at a party. While the girl
lay dying of an overdose, the alien was too buys raping a 14-
year-old who was under the influence of drugs to call an
ambulance.
On arrest, ICE filed a detainer. Local law enforcement was
prohibited from honoring it and a drug dealer and sexual
predator with admitted gang ties was allowed to walk out of the
jail as locals choose to ignore ICE's request. ICE can only
remain an effective enforcer of immigration laws through
collaboration with local law enforcement.
Such cooperation is proven to prevent illegal aliens
convicted of criminal activity from victimizing our
communities. Instead, sanctuary policies are utilized by the
gangs and other criminal aliens who rely on this sanctuary to
commit crimes in every U.S. community. In the fight against
opioids, fentanyl increased gang activity, this cooperation is
critical.
In 2015, I included Denver Sheriff's Department gang
intelligence deputies on a national task force operating
against transnational gangs. Due to great teamwork, we
identified numerous cases and arrested over a dozen gang
members with criminal backgrounds. The State sanctuary policy
ended that collaboration between ICE and the Denver Sheriff's
Department.
Refusing to cooperate with ICE, sanctuary cities are
sending a message that they don't value the lives of citizens
or the safety of our communities. Robust immigration
enforcement strategies must be developed to protect our country
from the risk of criminal illegal aliens. The first step must
be returning to the rule of law and through the enforcement of
immigration laws mandated by the INA.
Criminal aliens should be detained and expeditiously
removed from the country. ICE should be directed to address the
millions of final removal orders that have been issued by
immigration judges yet ignored for years. Congress must help
ICE by invalidating departmental policies that handcuff the
agency and prioritize slim and ambiguous categories of cases.
Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Fabbricatore follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. Thank you for your testimony. Our next
witness is Mr. Batista.
STATEMENT OF RAMON BATISTA
Mr. Batista. Before I begin, Mr. Rosenberg, we just met. I
just want to express my sincere thoughts and my heart goes out
to you for the loss of your son deeply. Chair McClintock,
Ranking Member Jayapal, and other distinguished Members of the
Subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify.
My name is Ramon Batista, and I'm the Chief of Police for
the city of Santa Monica, California. I was born in Los Angeles
and raised in Tucson, Arizona where I spent the bulk of my
policing career in the city about 60 miles from the U.S.-Mexico
border. My approach to law enforcement is evidence-based and
community oriented with the goal of improving public safety for
all.
As a member of the law enforcement immigration task force,
I also benefit from the collected knowledge of a nonpartisan
network of thought leaders who are attentive to unique
challenges and opportunities that arise while serving immigrant
communities. First, I want to affirm the generally positive
effect of immigration on the United States. Most of the
immigrants I have encountered firsthand are hard workers who
are eager to build a better life here, provide for their
families, and pursue the American dream.
They fill critical labor shortages in key industries that
Americans rely on. As our friends, fellow parishioners,
neighbors, and loved ones, they often influence our lives for
the better. That said, I also understand that immigrants are
people, and all people are capable of doing bad things.
However, I disagree with the premise that immigrants are
more prone to criminality than native born Americans. My
experience and the existing evidence overwhelmingly suggest
that immigrants including undocumented immigrants pose no
greater threat to public safety than anyone else. In fact,
their presence may help reduce crime in certain areas.
As a law enforcement officer, my job is to stop
perpetrators of crime no matter their immigration status.
Ultimately, I work in policing because of all the law abiding
residents whom I feel lucky to call part of my community.
Undocumented immigrants who live and work with dignity in Santa
Monica are a part of my community.
I take seriously my duty to keep them safe just as I do for
any U.S. citizen. During my career that has spanned 37 years
and two border states, one of the most critical lessons I have
learned is the importance of trust. Trust is the life blood of
community-oriented policing, and it is especially essential
among marginalized groups who might otherwise be afraid to come
forward.
There is a myriad of reasons why immigrants in particular
may hesitate to cooperate with police. Perhaps the greatest
fear they face is that of going to law enforcement for help.
They could inadvertently expose themselves or their loved ones
to immigration consequences.
When law enforcement is able to overcome these concerns
through trust-building, it can save lives. Before I moved to
Santa Monica, I served as a police chief in Arizona where I
knew I needed to prioritize connecting with the local immigrant
community, so they felt safe and comfortable. That concerted
effort paid off when a father came to us worried.
His teenage son who was experiencing mental illness had
started making alarming comments and had bought an assault
weapon, raising fears that he might soon resort to violence.
The father was undocumented and felt nervous to come forward.
His love for his son and his community prevailed.
The outreach we had done throughout the city fostered a
mutual understanding that we would not only treat him fairly,
but also take care of his child. This, to me, is the purpose of
the State and local law enforcement, to neutralize real threats
to public safety in our communities and to empower civilians
under our jurisdiction in their pursuit of justice. Meanwhile,
the enforcement of immigration laws has always primarily been a
Federal responsibility.
Local police departments like mine should use our limited
resources to catch people who are actively doing harm instead
of helping to remove residents with no criminal background
beyond minor immigration violations. On that note, it is not
secret that our Federal immigration system is broken and that
immigrants who hope to come to the U.S. for safety and
opportunity often find few, if any, lines to legally do so.
Immigrants who commit crimes of violence or otherwise impair
public safety should face consequences.
For the vast majority who are law abiding and want to
contribute positively to our communities, we should expand
opportunities to live and work legally in the U.S. Many of
these individuals are people of faith who care deeply about
their families and embody core American values. When we embrace
them, they're not only willing but they're eager to stand for
the guiding principles of our Nation.
They stand firm in their belief of democracy, liberty, and
freedom. For this reason, I am honored and humbled to sit here
today so that I can testify to the urgency for Republicans and
Democrats to work together and fix our immigration laws. As
much pride as I take in the hard-won victories like the one in
Arizona, I wrestle with the knowledge that other tragedies
across the country could be prevented where people not afraid
to come forward with vital information.
Immigration reform that would provide security for law
abiding U.S. residents would not only help them and their
families, but it would also help me and other law enforcement
professionals do our jobs. I welcome this dialog and hope to be
a resource for your Subcommittee as you work toward fixing our
immigration system. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Batista follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. Thank you for your testimony. Finally,
we'll hear from Mr. Rosenberg.
STATEMENT OF DONALD ROSENBERG
Mr. Rosenberg. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal,
Ranking Member Nadler, and Committee Members, thank you for the
opportunity to testify before the House Judiciary Subcommittee
on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement. If only we
had immigration integrity, security, and enforcement, I
wouldn't be here today. My son and tens of thousands of others
would be alive.
I am the President of Advocates for Victims of Illegal
Alien Crime. Let me be clear. We are not against immigration,
asylum, or refugee programs. We are against criminality.
My son, Drew, on his way home from law school was killed by
a criminal illegal alien over 12 years ago. The illegal alien
who ran him over drove back and forth over his body three times
attempting to flee. On the third time, he stopped when a man
stood in front of his car.
His rear tire was resting on my son's abdomen. Five men had
to lift the car off his lifeless body. Surely that is a
consequence of illegal immigration.
The AVIAC board members have all lost a loved one to
illegal alien crime. Maureen Maloney's 23-year-old son was
killed by a drunk driver in 2011. The illegal alien ran a stop
sign, collided with Matthew, and dragged his body a quarter of
a mile.
The killer was released from prison two months ago. Brian
McCann's brother, Denny, was a hit and run victim in 2011. The
killer was caught, but Cook County, Illinois board crafted a
sanctuary policy that allowed the killer to post bond. He was
released and fled to Mexico. After 12 years, he was finally
extradited and will stand trial.
Maureen Laquerre's brother, Richard, was killed in 2009
when a woman who overstayed her visa ran a red light and t-
boned his car. She was charged with vehicular homicide but
never went to trial. Almost a year after Richard's death, she
was allowed to return to Portugal without spending a day in
jail.
All these deaths were preventable. There are no annual
statistics on criminal alien crime. There is a report compiled
by the GAO using data from the State Criminal Alien Assistance
Program, SCAAP, that studied the crimes committed by criminal
aliens in Federal and State prisons between 2011 and 2016.
Those inmates were responsible for over 33,000 murders,
homicides, and manslaughters. How many other preventable deaths
by criminal aliens before 2011 and after 2016? Ten thousand, 20
thousand or more, we don't know.
Even those numbers are small. They're small portion of all
the crimes committed by illegal aliens as the report mentions
three different times. These are minimum numbers as not all
jurisdictions participate in SCAAP.
The numbers are also understated because there are minimum
requirements to be counted. During 2011-2016, those same
inmates were responsible for over two million other crimes.
What will these numbers look like going forward?
So far, over two million more asylum seekers have been
released into the country in just the first two years of the
Biden Administration. These two million have received little to
no vetting, only checking if they had been in the country and
then prior deported. Less than 15 percent will be granted
asylum.
The rest will be ordered deported. Less than five percent
will ever leave. What is now probably two million got-aways
that have not been vetted at all are roaming the country freely
and more likely to have criminal intent.
None of them will be deported until they have committed
some heinous crime, if even then. Furthermore, sanctuary policy
thwarts ICE from deporting convicted criminal aliens. This past
May, San Mateo County in California passed an ordinance that no
county employees can cooperate with the Federal government,
even if the crimes committed were child molestation, rape, or
murder.
These people are not a threat to public safety? I have
watched these hearings for a decade as victims pour their heart
out obviously to no avail. Some of you will tell me you are
sorry for my loss.
How many of you will be sincere? We don't need sympathy.
Nothing you do will bring back our loved ones. I've had enough
sympathy to last me for the rest of my life.
What we need is some sanity. DHS' first priority must be
removing all criminal aliens, not some but all. The same time,
the border must be secured. Only those people we fully vet
should be allowed in.
For the past 12 years, I have worked daily to reduce and
eliminate the consequences of criminal aliens on U.S.
communities. I wish I felt our government was doing the same
thing. I hope I don't get a call one day that your loved one is
the latest victim. Thank you. I look forward to answering your
questions and I'm available to meet with you at any time.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Rosenberg follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mr. McClintock. I want to thank all of you for your
testimony, and we'll now proceed under the five-minute rule of
questions. We'll begin with Mr. Biggs of Arizona.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for
being here today. Mr. Schoenleben, it seems to me that the core
American values is the rule of law. Would you agree with that?
Mr. Schoenleben. Yes.
Mr. Biggs. How about you, Mr. Fabbricatore?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, absolutely, sir.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Batista, the rule of law, core, right?
Mr. Batista. Yes, yes.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Rosenberg, you'd agree with that as well?
Mr. Rosenberg. As we hear, no one is above the law.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Fabbricatore, am I saying that right,
Fabbri-
catore?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Fabbricatore, yes, sir.
Mr. Biggs. Fabbricatore. Here's my question for you and
that is how many people who enter between the ports of entry
without legal documents have violated U.S. law?
Mr. Fabbricatore. They violate the law the minute that they
enter the country by crossing around the ports of entry.
Mr. Biggs. Everyone?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes.
Mr. Biggs. Everyone?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Every single one.
Mr. Biggs. Every one of those two million got-aways that
Mr. Rosenberg told us about, is that consistent with the rule
of law?
Mr. Fabbricatore. No, sir. It is not.
Mr. Biggs. So, here's another question. Mr. Rosenberg
touched on it, and you touched on it a little bit. So, it's
really critical here. People who are in this country illegally,
who commit an additional crime against a citizen or someone who
is here legally. If they were not in this country illegally,
would they have been able to commit that crime?
Mr. Fabbricatore. No, they would not have been.
Mr. Biggs. So, a crime prevention strategy would be to
enforce the law and secure the border, would it not?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, sir, it would be.
Mr. Biggs. Do you know whether Secretary Mayorkas has told
members of ICE and limited their authority on executing removal
orders on the more than 1.4 million people who already have a
removal order in this country?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, through his priorities, he has
limited that.
Mr. Biggs. Tell me how so.
Mr. Fabbricatore. Well, the priorities State that we're not
go to after just final orders that don't have recent criminal
backgrounds or criminal backgrounds at all. So, you're just
allowing that to keep growing and growing.
Mr. Biggs. So, we passed H.R. 2 out of this body. It
languishes in the Senate. Doesn't fix every problem with border
security, but it makes a start.
We have a Secretary of Homeland Security that has told ICE
to stand down. We have a Secretary of Homeland Security who's
engaged in a catch and release program. Do you know what he has
said is his priorities?
Any one of these. Do you know what he said one of his
priorities is? He has said it's to make illegal immigration
more humane, to expedite those who enter our country illegally.
Does that sound like the rule of law to you, Mr. Rosenberg?
Mr. Rosenberg. Not at all.
Mr. Biggs. How about you, Mr. Batista? Does that sound like
the rule of law?
Mr. Batista. Not in following the letter of the law, no.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Schoenleben?
Mr. Schoenleben. No, sir.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Fabbricatore?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Absolutely not, sir.
Mr. Biggs. So, we're left when the Chief Law Enforcement
Officer, the head of the DHS in this country says, stand down,
don't enforce the law, I trouble accepting the notion that
those who come into this country illegally, enter this country
illegally regardless of motivation understand and accept our
adherence to the rule of law. I'll tell you what. If you have
people who don't understand the rule of law and its importance,
you cannot have freedom because it facilitates what every one
of you know.
The really bad guys will be able to go free. They'll be
undeterred, and they will go after and cause havoc and mayhem.
I'm not saying everybody who comes in this country illegally is
going to commit an additional crime.
They are born under crime entering this country illegally.
I want to mention really quick, Mary Anne Mendoza whose son
Brandon Mendoza, police officer, killed by--and I know Mr.
Batista knows the Phoenix area. On Valley Freeway illegally
entered the country drunk, driving for literally miles and
miles, runs into Mr. Mendoza.
Brandon--or excuse me, Mr. Ronnebeck, Steve Ronnebeck's son
Grant who was killed by an illegal alien who put a gun to his
head because he didn't provide him change fast enough at the
convenience store. No, they don't share our core values.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back. Ms. Jayapal?
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to start by
getting some of the facts out there. There is no data to
suggest that localities with community trust policies have more
criminal activities than others. In fact, hundreds of local law
enforcement agencies throughout the United States have adopted
community trust policies.
Across the country, these local police departments, the
ones that my Republican colleagues are so quick to claim that
they support report that trust policies actually reduce crime.
Recent comprehensive studies have supported those claims
statistically showing that community trust jurisdictions are
demonstrably safer than their counterparts. Mr. Chair, I ask
unanimous consent to submit a sampling of those different
studies for the record.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Ms. Jayapal. We know that victims and witnesses are much
more likely to report crime and cooperate with investigations
and prosecutions when they believe that there is little or no
risk of deportation if they reach out. Moreover, we know that
abusers will use an individual's immigrant status to intimidate
them into staying silent. Local law enforcement relies heavily
on these victims and witnesses to prevent and punish criminal
activity.
So, Chief Batista, let me turn to you. I don't want my
colleagues to take my word for it. Can you help us understand
why jurisdictions with community trust policies in place
experience less crime and why their residents feel safer?
Mr. Batista. Yes, ma'am. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member
Jayapal, what I've seen in my history is that time and again in
our communities when we embrace immigrants and make them feel
and be a part of our normal life that they behave in those same
manners in that they cooperate with law enforcement and that
they no longer are victims that live in the shadows. One of the
greatest concerns I have in that situation is that a victim
that does not come forward just makes a perfect victim. I don't
think anyone in this room and certainly no one in law
enforcement ever supports that occurring to anyone in our
country.
Ms. Jayapal. One of the studies that I submitted into the
record found that jurisdictions that adopted sanctuary policies
experienced a 52-62 percent reduction in the domestic homicide
rate for Hispanic women. Chief Batista, does that statistic
track with your experience as a law enforcement officer in
jurisdictions that have those kinds of policies?
Mr. Batista. Yes, it does.
Ms. Jayapal. Domestic violence accounts for approximately
15 percent of all violent crimes. It often goes unreported. How
do community trust policies help domestic violence victims feel
more comfortable coming forward?
Mr. Batista. In the same way, ma'am, in that when we
respond on a call for assistance from a victim of domestic
violence, we want them to know that their status in the United
States is not our primary concern. Our concern at that point is
their safety and their welfare. That has been our guiding
principle since I was in Arizona and certainly in California. I
have seen that it works.
Ms. Jayapal. I really appreciate that. Chief Batista,
you've worked in law enforcement for nearly four decades, both
in Arizona, most recently in California. Have you seen a
difference in how welcoming those States are toward immigrants?
Mr. Batista. Yes.
Ms. Jayapal. Can you compare your engagement with
communities of color in Santa Monica and in Mesa?
Mr. Batista. I'll tell you that as a whole in Arizona, it
was much more challenging in that the State's immigration laws
made it difficult for local law enforcement to build a
relationship in those circumstances. I'd attended many meetings
with immigrant communities. It felt as though in those meetings
folks were just trying to get by, trying to survive.
The difference that I've experienced in Santa Monica and in
Los Angeles is that their immigrant communities are forthright
and willing to come out and engage and be a part of the social
fabric of neighborhoods. Their kids and the encouragement that
they receive is not just to be able to get through high school,
but to be thinking about what college, what university they're
going to go to and what profession are they going to pursue. It
just feels as though folks are more welcoming and understanding
and wanting to achieve the American dream just like everyone
else.
Ms. Jayapal. Just like everyone else. Can you discuss how
passing immigration reform which brings undocumented
individuals out of the shadows and regularizes their
immigration status would actually improve the job you're trying
to do around local policing and national security?
Mr. Batista. Community policing is--foundational precept is
trust I mentioned earlier. So, having them come out of the
shadows, like I said, normalizes their behaviors in our
neighborhoods and our cities. It makes it so that this
communication, that ability to understand what's going on at
the neighborhood level is improved. I can't say enough about
how it will improve our ability to mitigate threats at even the
national level.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Chief Batista, for getting those
facts out there. I think it's clear our words matter. It's
important that we discuss these issues carefully. I yield back,
Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Tiffany?
Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, words do matter.
Mr. Orwell would be highly interested in the discussion that's
being had here. Community trust equals a sanctuary city.
They've renamed sanctuary cities now right here in the
Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives. Saying
that there's less crime in a community that is a sanctuary city
which a sanctuary city almost certainly has a Soros prosecutor.
You're going to tell us that there is not as much crime?
Those prosecutors in the big cities are not prosecuting
crime in many instances. We saw it firsthand up in New York
City. Mr. Rosenberg, is crime up in California over the last
couple decades?
Mr. Rosenberg. Yes, tremendously up.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Batista?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Mr. Tiffany, I didn't catch
the question.
Mr. Tiffany. Is crime up in California over the last couple
decades?
Mr. Batista. I can't tell you off the top of my head. I can
tell you that in our jurisdiction locally, we're about seven
percent higher than we were last year.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. F?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, sir. It's up in Colorado.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Schoenleben?
Mr. Schoenleben. It's up in Orange County, California for
sure.
Mr. Tiffany. Significantly?
Mr. Schoenleben. Yes. In fact--yes, sir. I can actually
tell you just as a quick example for residential burglaries, in
2022, our office filed 542 residential burglaries for the
entire year. This year to date, we're already at 414. We're
projected 828 for 2023. So, yes.
Mr. Tiffany. In California, is crime down in the sanctuary
cities?
Mr. Schoenleben. I'm sorry?
Mr. Tiffany. Is crime down in the sanctuary cities in
California?
Mr. Schoenleben. Not to my knowledge. No, sir.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. F, is the Biden Administration following
the law? Is the Biden Administration following Federal law?
Mr. Fabbricatore. They're not following the Immigration
Nationality Act, no.
Mr. Tiffany. Have you read or become familiar with the
secure the border bill that we just passed?
Mr. Fabbricatore. I've read some of it, sir.
Mr. Tiffany. Is it an improvement on what we have now?
Mr. Fabbricatore. It would be an improvement. It would be
actually enforcing the law.
Mr. Tiffany. Would you recommend to all Congressional
Representatives before you today to vote for that secure the
border bill?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, sir.
Mr. Tiffany. We hear about fentanyl bills that are kind of
chipping away at the edges, Mr. F. I keep saying (1) we can do
to reduce fentanyl and by far and (2) is way down the line, is
to secure the border. Is that accurate?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes. It's very accurate. Securing the
border would actually help keep the fentanyl out. That's the
cartels that are moving the fentanyl.
Mr. Tiffany. In fact, it's rather interesting. When we made
the trip down to just a couple years ago that my colleague, Mr.
Biggs, took us down to the county, Cochise County. The sheriff
said things were getting under control down there as the wall
was being built.
They were able to put crime control measures in place. They
were telling a very positive story. We just had them before us
a couple months ago and he said things are out of control and
that fentanyl, there's a reason why it's gone up by 80 percent
or whatever the number is. That's coming into America. It's
primarily because the border is open. Do you believe that to be
true?
Mr. Fabbricatore. I do believe it to be true. As the border
gets open and more people are just rushing in, the border
patrol is being kept from actually being on the line, on the
border. So, it's harder for them to stop any fentanyl that may
be coming in.
Mr. Tiffany. Mr. Schoenleben, when I was down in Panama
about two years ago, I heard that many Haitians that were
coming through had actually resettled in places like Brazil and
Chile. Have you seen any Haitians that came via the ESTA visa
program that you referred to in Chile?
Mr. Schoenleben. So, we don't breakdown the actual national
birthplace of each defendant. What we've been looking at is
trying to figure out who our criminals are and where they are
coming from and how they're getting in. When we've done that,
we found that wherever their birthplace, whether it be from
Argentina, Puerto Rico, and so on, they'd been utilizing the
Chilean ESTA program to get into the country and then commit
crime.
Mr. Tiffany. Have you or anyone in your office asked
Secretary Mayorkas to change this program to protect Americans?
Mr. Schoenleben. We have not spoken directly with Secretary
Mayorkas. We've worked with Department of Homeland Security.
We've worked with the FBI.
In every briefing that we've done, we've been a part of no
less than half a dozen briefings between those two agencies.
The Homeland Security has been aware of this issue for at least
four years, same with the FBI. So, then we've started reaching
out. We were told it would take an act of Congress to fix this.
So here we are.
Mr. Tiffany. So, they haven't done anything?
Mr. Schoenleben. Not to my knowledge. I do know that
there's been a meeting. There's a meeting planned. The concern
from our office is there's routine questions--or routine
promises that things will happen. Our concern is we'd like them
to actually happen.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's time has expired. Mr.
Nadler?
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Chief Batista, as I
mentioned in my opening statement, next month is the
anniversary of the El Paso shooting. In that tragic incident, a
domestic terrorist murdered 23 people. He posted a racist
manifesto espousing White nationalist theories and claiming
that there was a Hispanic invasion, even telling investigators
later that he was targeting Mexicans. Can you discuss the
impact that this type of rhetoric has on minority communities?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Ranking Member Nadler, yes,
it has a devastating effect on migrant and minority communities
in that it forces them to go underground and communicate and
cooperate. Much less it forces them into the shadows. It
doesn't help the work of public safety if segments--large
segments of our community are cast away in that manner.
Mr. Nadler. How does it impact you as a Hispanic man
yourself?
Mr. Batista. As a Police Chief of nearly 40 years, and
certainly when I am wearing the uniform or this, there is a
level of respect that I see, I feel. Certainly, when I take all
this off I experience the same challenges that other ethnic
minorities in this country experience. It informs me, it
informs my leadership, and my views on how things have to
improve.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. The Major Cities Chiefs Association,
a professional organization of police executives representing
the largest cities in the United States and Canada, has
previously stated that if law enforcement officers are viewed
by members of the immigrant community as colluding with or
working with immigration law enforcement officers, this would,
Result in increased crime against immigrants in the broader
community, create a class of silent victims, and eliminate the
potential for assistance from immigrants in solving crimes or
preventing future terroristic acts.
Do you agree with this statement?
Mr. Batista. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nadler. Do you think if minority communities and
specifically immigrant communities feel unsafe that it makes
everyone in that jurisdiction less safe?
Mr. Batista. Yes, sir.
Mr. Nadler. If so, can you explain why?
Mr. Batista. The level of cooperation that we need to be
successful encompasses the same things that we expect and the
way that we do and the way that we are successful in
communities across the country. If we have ethnic minority
communities, immigrant communities, where we can't penetrate,
where we can't get information, that affects our national
security through and through.
It is not just people coming from across the border. It is
in any immigrant community in this country where we need to
understand and better understand what it is that is occurring.
Without that information, we are at a deficit and it makes our
country less safe.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. In your opening statement, you told
a compelling story about how an undocumented individual was
willing to come forward and express concerns about his own son
to law enforcement because of the outreach you did and the
trust you built. Is that kind of story indicative of the
positive results we have seen from implementing community trust
policies?
Mr. Batista. Chair Nadler--Ranking Member Nadler, that is
but one of the many examples and wins that I remember from my
time in Arizona. I spent the bulk of my time as an officer in
the Tucson Police Department, and there we worked very hard to
work on the relationship with our immigrant communities.
That story that I told stays with me simply because of the
significance of how difficult it must have been for that man to
come forward. Yes, at the end those stories ring true for me.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Roy.
Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair. I thank all the witnesses for
being here.
Mr. Rosenberg, you explained the tragic loss of your son.
If I remember correctly, there were obstacles to the removal of
the criminal alien who unfortunately killed your son, and was
not the current secretary at that point--Secretary Mayorkas at
that point in the Obama Administration--and can you
characterize his help or lack of help in ensuring that both
prosecution and/or deportation of the individual in question?
Mr. Rosenberg. Well, I didn't know of his involvement at
the time. After the trial and Roberto Galo was sentenced to six
months in jail, I met with my Congressman, Henry Waxman at the
time, and said I want to make sure this guy is detained and
deported.
He had somebody write a letter to USCIS, of which Mayorkas
was the head of at the time, and he got back a letter that said
that Galo would not be detained or deported because--and this
is an exact quote, ``he has only committed one crime of moral
turpitude.''
As I learned later on, and as we see today, that is
Mayorkas' policy. Killing somebody doesn't necessarily reach
the level to be deported.
Mr. Roy. So, the current Secretary of Homeland Security
felt that it was not something that merited deportation,
because he had ``only had one crime of moral turpitude.''
Mr. Rosenberg. Yes.
Mr. Roy. One crime.
Mr. Rosenberg. Yes.
Mr. Roy. Does that ``one crime'' mean a lot to your family,
sir?
Mr. Rosenberg. Means everything to my family.
Mr. Roy. Do you think such a statement and a position is
befitting of someone who swears an oath to uphold the laws of
the United States, whether it was in a position in USCIS under
President Obama or now as secretary of a department charged
with securing the homeland of the United States?
Mr. Rosenberg. Well, our group and I was against his even
being appointed. I did get to meet him in 2014. At the time, I
still didn't know that he was part of what happened in my son's
case, and he lied to me constantly.
I mean, the one thing you learn when you are in publishing
is ask somebody questions that you know the answer to. If they
lie, you will know they are lying.
Mr. Roy. So, I am interested in that perspective, because
the Secretary of Homeland Security lied to me in this very room
when he said under oath that, ``We have operational control of
the border.'' He then went on to testify in the U.S. Senate
that, well, we can't have operational control of the border
under that definition in the Secure Fence Act. At the same
time, Raul Ortiz testified that, in fact, we do not have
operational control of the border.
Do you think it is a problem for the Secretary of Homeland
Security to come into this room, into the House of
Representatives Judiciary Committee, and lie about maintaining
operational control of the border?
Mr. Rosenberg. Not only do I think it is a problem, but I
certainly think that he should no longer be in office.
Mr. Roy. I think countless Americans share that view, and I
appreciate it, and I appreciate your testimony.
Mr. Fabbricatore, we first got to know each other when I
was in Denver, Colorado, around the time that the ICE facility
was being, unfortunately, ransacked and a flag being turned
upside--the American flag being turned upside down. I
appreciate your service in ICE.
Do these numbers sound correct to you, that between Fiscal
Year 2018 and Fiscal Year 2022 that for ICE there has been a 69
percent decline in overall civil ICE arrests, 65 percent
decline in convicted criminals, 26 percent homicide-related, 53
percent reduction in weapons offenses, 33 percent reduction in
sexual offenses, sexual assault, 58 percent reduction in
assault, 50 percent robbery, 40 percent kidnapping, and 61
percent family offense? Is ICE able to do its job under the
Biden Administration's--
Mr. Fabbricatore. No, they are not able to do their job,
and the statistics bear that out.
Mr. Roy. Can you explain to the United States--people of
the United States why?
Mr. Fabbricatore. It is the priorities that this
administration has put forth. It is limiting what ICE officers
can do. It is limiting the Border Patrol agents. Right now, we
have so many people entering that they are just showing up at
the ICE offices, and ICE officers are just basically
processing. They are not out on the street making arrests. So,
these arrest numbers are going to be down. Under these
priorities, it is only going to get worse.
Mr. Roy. The consequence is dead Americans, the consequence
is dead migrants, the consequence is tons of fentanyl pouring
into the United States, and it is a direct consequence of the
policies chosen to be enacted by the President of the United
States and his Secretary of Homeland Security. Do you agree,
sir?
Mr. Fabbricatore. I agree, sir.
Mr. Roy. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Correa.
Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, I want to welcome
the witnesses. Mr. Rosenberg, please accept my condolences for
your loss. I am also a father, and no father should ever have
to attend their child's funeral. Every day I pray that my
children come home safely. Every day, please. I pray for you
and your family.
When it comes to crime, victims of crimes, criminals, in my
opinion, with or without documents, there is no room for you in
our society. Period.
I wanted to, if I can, turn to the issue of trust that we
have kind of touched on or not. Mr. Schoenleben, you are from
Orange County. Mr. Spitzer, your boss, Sheriff Barnes, his
predecessor, we often worked in our communities to earn the
trust of our communities. We have a high percentage of workers
who are undocumented that are actually employed in the Disney
area, the hotel industry.
Trust is very important when it comes to crime fighting. I
will give you an example. A few years ago, I came home from
work, helicopters, police cars everywhere. Drive up to my
driveway, my wife says, what is going on in the neighborhood?
So, I said, Honey, let me make some phone calls.
Local police chief tells me a rapist has been caught in the
act. I tell my wife, it is OK, I think they are about to catch
him. She freaked out, locked the doors, locked the window,
there is a rapist in our community. She was right.
Later, we found out what had happened. A young man got
caught raping a woman in the local laundry room of the
apartments right across the street from my house. Found out
later on that he had raped no less than 20 undocumented women,
minimum of 20, because we don't know how many others never
reported the crime. This guy is gone forever.
If these women had not stepped up and reported the crime,
he would have never been arrested. If he had not been caught in
the act, he would have kept going. This is why trust in our
communities is so important when it comes to reporting crimes.
All of us are part of the same community.
I want to talk--I am glad you are here to talk about the
Chilean issue. As you know, your boss called me late last year
to address this very specific issue. I have been working with
your office, the Chilean Embassy, with the Department of
Homeland Security, as well as the State Department, to figure
out what is going on with this visa program. By the way, I
believe Chile is the only country in Latin America that has
this program in place. No other country.
Now, if I can, Mr. Chair, without objection, I would like
to submit for the record some of the correspondence, some of
the letters we have been writing back and forth, and I believe
some as well to Mr. Spitzer. One dated June 15th, from Congress
Members Kim, Levin, and Correa to Mr. Mayorkas on this specific
issue. June 15th from Levin and Correa on Child again to the
Ambassador of Chile. One dated June 6th from Correa to DHS and
the State Department on this issue. From the Ambassador of
Chile to Mr. Todd Spitzer dated June 14th. The embassy of Chile
to yours truly dated June 16th.
So, these I think--
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Mr. Correa. If you could please submit those. These are
some of the issues that we have been dealing with, and I thank
you for being here. I thank Mr. Spitzer for bringing this up,
because the first step in solving a case is to know that the
crime is actually happening.
The issues here--and I only have 44 seconds--is, as you
have kind of alluded, are the data bases, the criminal data
bases that are not quite connected over there, and we are in
the middle of working with that.
The bottom line, all the gobbledygook put aside, is this
thing either gets fixed or that visa program is revoked, as it
should be, because any criminal, whether it is in Orange
County, in Mr. Spitzer's backyard, or in my backyard, is a
crime that is unacceptable. By the way, it is not just
Chileans. There is a number of European gangs that are also
involved in these kinds of programs that we need to shut down
immediately.
So, I want to say thank you for being here. Thank you for
your testimony. We want to make sure we continue to work with
your office and others to make sure our communities, our
citizens are safe.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I yield.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
Mr. Van Drew.
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Rosenberg, I am not going to offer you condolences,
because you need a lot more than that. You have heard thousands
and thousands of people are saying how sad and how sorry they
are. The only time you are going to feel good in your heart is
when we have the right laws, and we have a safe country.
So, I will say this to you. I promise--and there is many
people on this Committee--that we will work our hardest and do
our best to achieve that goal.
Mr. Rosenberg. Thank you. That is all I can ask for.
Mr. Van Drew. Mr. Batista, I have prepared remarks, and
hopefully I will get to some of them. I don't know. You really
fascinate me, for real. You have been in law enforcement most
of your adult life, correct?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Mr. Van Drew, yes, sir.
Mr. Van Drew. OK. You expressed today basically that
communities are safer and better with undocumented, with
illegal residents coming in, and that literally it can be very
good for the community, correct?
Mr. Batista. Yes, sir. When undocumented folks come out of
the shadows and they are normalized as normal neighborhoods
across the country, we are safer.
Mr. Van Drew. So, the communities are better for that.
Mr. Batista. Our communities are better for that, yes.
Mr. Van Drew. OK. So, there are actually almost many--a
significant number of the countries in our world have many
people who are suffering under dictatorships, under poverty,
under all kinds of issues around the world.
If it is so good for us--and I am--it is a sincere
question--why don't we just open the country up completely? Why
don't we open up the Northern border more? Why don't we bring
people from the Eastern Bloc? Why don't we bring--illegally, we
don't even call it illegal anymore.
Why don't we just say--and if you think this is good, tell
me. Why don't we just say our country is open to anybody who
shows up and wants to come in, not legally, but there is no
more legal process, because, by the way, people who immigrate
legally, the right way, I feel so bad for them because the
system doesn't work well enough. Good people who have worked
hard and they are waiting year after year to get into the
United States of America and do it the right way, and they
refuse to do it the wrong way.
Mr. Batista, are they kind of foolish to do that, to wait
those years and go through the process?
Mr. Batista. Mr. Van Drew, my role and my life's work has
been about protecting those folks that can't protect
themselves. I take great pride in the work that our profession
does--
Mr. Van Drew. Respectfully, Mr. Batista, I would like you
to answer my question.
Mr. Batista. So, I would say that the role of determining--
Mr. Van Drew. I am asking you as a person, as a human
being, sitting next to Mr. Rosenberg, is it good, should we--or
is it a waste of time when all these people who wait for years,
good, hardworking people that want the dream of the shining
city on the hill--America--is it good, or are they wasting
their time, and should they just come in illegally?
Mr. Batista. Mr. Van Drew, I think that the work of--
Mr. Van Drew. Please answer my question specifically.
Mr. Batista. The work of determining how that is going to
work is really on the shoulders of Republicans and Democrats.
My role is to--
Mr. Van Drew. So, you are not going to answer my question.
I am asking you as a person. You vote. You care. I am asking
you what you think. How do you feel for those people that wait
for all those years and could have done it a whole different
way, but believe in the rule of law? It is kind of hard on
them, don't you think? Those folks don't like what is happening
in our country right now. Talk to good people who came here
legally, and they waited, and they worked, and then they
pledged their allegiance to the flag and to the United States
of America.
So, I would ask you if it was a good thing--and this is a
question. I want to know. If you answer no, it wouldn't be a
good thing, I want to know why not. If this has been a good
thing, why don't we open--Asian people are good people; are
they not? Black people are good people, from Africa. People
from the Eastern Bloc countries, many of them suffer a great
deal. People from Russia that could get over from--all over the
world there are people that want to come to America. So, why
don't we just open it up? Because it makes us better according
to you.
Mr. Batista. Mr. Van Drew, it has been my life's work to--
Mr. Van Drew. Please answer that question.
Mr. Batista. --adhere to the rule of law, and so I would
say that the determination of improving our country's
immigration laws really rests with Republicans and Democrats.
Mr. Van Drew. I know where it rests. I understand the
process. I am asking you what you feel as a human being, as a
law enforcement officer who has been involved for most of your
adult life. You told us this is a good thing, people should
come out, and it improves communities. I want to have an answer
from you as a human being, is that good for America? Has this
helped America?
Mr. Batista. Again, I will say that I believe in the rule
of law, and our job is immigration laws.
Mr. Van Drew. You are saying nothing, Mr. Batista. I am
sorry. I respect you in law enforcement, but I don't respect
what you are saying.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Escobar.
Ms. Escobar. Thank you, Mr. Chair. To our witnesses, thank
you all for being here.
Mr. Rosenberg, I want to add my own condolences to you. I
am a mother of two, and I can't imagine anything happening to
either of my children. So, I stand with my colleagues who have
provided their condolences to you.
I do want to say for people watching this hearing, this is
my fifth year in Congress, and I have seen a really alarming
trend that has become increasingly more alarming every year
that I have been in Congress. That trend is the desire and
effort to paint immigrants as criminals.
The reason for that is to essentially dehumanize
immigrants, and that allows for a furthering of xenophobic
rhetoric and xenophobic policies and anti-immigrant policies as
well. There is a serious consequence to engaging that way.
There is a serious consequence to painting immigrants as
dangerous or threatening and making the country feel fearful of
them. That is there is a promotion of hate of immigrants.
I represent El Paso, Texas. Last week a killer who drove 10
hours from East Texas to El Paso--El Paso, which is a border
community that has a quarter of our population that is
immigrant-born and is also one of the safest communities in the
United States of American, an individual, a domestic terrorist,
a White nationalist, drove over 10 hours to my community and he
confessed that he did that to slaughter Mexicans and immigrants
because of the invasion.
That is a word that is frequently used by my colleagues on
the other side of the aisle and by politicians all across this
country who want to promote that xenophobia.
He came to my community, walked into a busy Walmart where
there were families shopping for school supplies, where there
were kids raising money for their sports teams, where there
were senior citizens waiting to buy their prescription
medication, and he walked in with an assault-style weapon, and
he slaughtered 23 people. He left dozens injured, and years
later we are about to--next month will be another terrible
anniversary. My community still lives with deep trauma and
profound pain.
He was not an undocumented immigrant. He was a U.S.
citizen. U.S. citizens are carrying out massacres across the
country with automatic-style weapons. I don't see the same
urgency to have that conversation from my colleagues on the
other side of the aisle.
I will say, representing the border, and living on the
border, and being a third-generation border resident, having
raised both my children--both of whom are fourth-generation
border residents--on the border, there is nobody who wants a
well-managed, safe border more than those of us who live there.
But the only way to do it is if Republicans work with
Democrats in a bipartisan manner to update laws that haven't
been updated in almost 40 years.
Mr. Batista, one of my colleagues decided to try to badger
you into trying to get you to acknowledge I don't know what,
and, unfortunately, this is the same deflection I see over and
over again from colleagues who love to point the finger at
other people about immigration laws, but colleagues who refuse
to look in the mirror to say, ``It is my job and my obligation
to update outdated immigration laws.''
So, I will tell all of you here, it is our job to address
the situation. A key way to address this and to create safer
communities is by opening up legal pathways. Unfortunately, we
are not going to see that from our colleagues, by and large, on
the other side of the aisle, and instead we are going to see
the same thing, which is a shrinking of legal pathways, a
refusal to modernize outdated laws, and that is precisely what
creates a deeply broken system.
With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Spartz.
Ms. Spartz. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I actually disagree with
the concept that unless laws change we are not going to be
enforcing them. The law is the law, and we have to have the
rule of law. We have laws on the books. They might need to
change. If they change, they change. Refusing to enforce the
laws that exist on the books, I think it is dereliction of
duty, and I truly believe it puts a significant national
security risk.
I have been at the border many times since I became
Congresswoman, and I am shocked, and I think it is not just
national security risk, it is actually huge security risk for a
lot of desperate people that come here and become pretty much
puppets and control and slaves to cartels that make enormous
amount of money.
So, this is very concerning. As illegal immigrant to this
country, I understand how hard it is--and many other people--to
try to immigrate here. We have the law, and we have the rule of
law. If we have to look at the laws--but no excuse not
enforcing the law because a lot of lives are going to be
destroyed because of that.
Mr. Fabbricatore--and I apologize if I say your name
wrong--would you be surprised to know that 10 months into
Fiscal Year 2023, ICE Denver has only removed 429 aliens with
final orders of removal pursuant to INA Section 240, and has
only removed 256 aliens whose final orders were reinstated? Do
these low interior removal numbers surprise you?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, ma'am. Those are low.
Ms. Spartz. Do they surprise you? Was it something
different when you actually were in office?
Mr. Fabbricatore. No, it doesn't surprise me because of the
enforcement priorities right now. So, I am not surprised that
those numbers would be low.
Ms. Spartz. So, do you believe--because when I observed
when I was at the border, I was very surprised to see how
selective enforcement is, and laws. When you go in processing
centers, it was during COVID pandemic, there are people on top
of each other, and no one enforcing it.
Then you go to ICE facility, there has to be isolations,
and everyone has to be there at a distance, which actually
decreased capacity. A lot of border patrol just have to pretty
much let people go, sometimes with the NTA, sometimes were with
that, then in shelters where they need to move along kids and
stop even do proper checking who they send them kids because
they are were found there. So, very strange to me because it
seems like that is the places where we should have really start
looking at what is going on and put danger on these people.
Do you believe this law actually puts real people, real
lives in danger, including people at the border?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Absolutely it puts lives at danger.
Ms. Spartz. I think you know what Mr. Rosenberg--you see
what that has to do in the community. I have quickly to ask,
Mr. Batista, do you believe in the rule of law?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Ms. Spartz, do I believe in
the rule of law?
Ms. Spartz. Yes.
Mr. Batista. Yes.
Ms. Spartz. So, you believe we have the rule of law at our
Southern border? Does it function ineffectively? The rule of
law and the legal system is actually functioning in our border,
do you believe is a fact, what is happening in our border?
Mr. Batista. Ms. Spartz, I support the strengthening of
our--
Ms. Spartz. No. I am just asking, do you--on your
assessment--you are professional, you are a district attorney,
you are--what do you believe? Do we have--you actually the
functioning--the rule of law at the border?
Mr. Batista. Ms. Spartz, could you repeat the question
specifically?
Ms. Spartz. So, at now current situation at the border, at
our current situation at the border, do you think we have the
rule of law at our Southern border?
Mr. Batista. What we need to make sure is that the border
is secure, ma'am.
Ms. Spartz. I am just saying, do we have it or not, in your
assessment as a professional?
Mr. Batista. That is the part that I leave to Federal
immigration authorities, ma'am.
Ms. Spartz. So, you cannot assess the situation on the
border.
Mr. Batista. No, ma'am.
Ms. Spartz. OK. What about you, Mr.--I am not sure if I say
your name right--Mr. Schoenleben.
Mr. Schoenleben. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Spartz. Do you believe we have the rule of law function
at the border?
Mr. Schoenleben. Ma'am, I wouldn't begin to testify about
what is going on at the border. What I can tell you is, and
what I am here to say for our office, is there are current
loopholes through the ESTA Visa Program as well as with the
border, through sanctuary--or, excuse me, through individuals
claiming status at the border. So, those flaws at the border,
and through the ESTA Program, are creating criminals.
One of those issues with ESTA Program can be fixed tonight,
and there will be less victims tomorrow, if that--
Ms. Spartz. So, you believe there are problems at the
border. You live in the State of California. No matter which
district you represent this is your State. You should know what
is happening at your border.
Mr. Schoenleben. If your question is, do I think there are
problems at the border, yes.
Ms. Spartz. Yes. Well, what about Mr. Batista? Do you
believe you don't have problems at the border? Are you not
familiar what is happening at your border? This is--California
has a border.
Mr. Batista. Ma'am, again, my responsibility is with the
city of Santa Monica, and I--
Ms. Spartz. So, you don't go to the border at all. You
don't even know what is happening at the border.
Mr. Batista. Our partners with Federal immigration and
protection of the border, I certainly support that. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Spartz. OK. Well, it is unfortunate, because I think we
need to find common ground, but I think we need to enforce the
law because a lot of lives are going to be destroyed.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Jackson Lee.
Ms. Spartz. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent to insert
into the record Fiscal Year 2023 removal numbers from ICE
enforcement and removal operations.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, I also have an unanimous consent
request to enter into the record statements from the following
organizations that have concerns about the conflation of crime
and immigration. Asian Pacific Institute on Gender-Based
Violence, ASISTA Immigration Assistance, Church World Service,
Detention Watch Network, Esperanza United, National Network to
End Domestic Violence, Tahirih Justice Center, and ValorUS.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Jackson Lee.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Whether I agree with all of you or none of you, let me
express my appreciation for your presence here today.
With a little level of seniority, I have been through this
for 28 years on this Committee, and actually worked on any
number of comprehensive immigration reform initiatives that
just couldn't find common ground.
We are now at a point where common ground couldn't be found
with a microscope. We were far closer to common ground on this
issue in 2008, 2010, with Senator McCain and the Gang of eight.
I wish America had taken up that opportunity, because if we
look at our history, this is a land of immigrants and a land of
laws. All of us came here. Mine was dastardly. Others struggled
and died coming. Others migrated, immigrated, fleeing famine
and persecution, and so we all have come here strangers other
than our friends who are Native Americans.
It gives me pause when people want to demonize immigrants,
migrants, and they want the same opportunities all of us do.
Unlike my friend, Mr. Rosenberg, I am going to offer
sympathy. I am sorry that the laws did not, I believe,
fittingly respond to your pain and to your loss. We need to
realize that any form of crime is addressed to appropriately
for the level of crime that it is.
I do want to say that witnesses who offer themselves before
us do not need to be battered, do not need to be challenged for
the distinctiveness of their views. They need to be probed.
So, let me, first, quickly say that statistics have shown
that the end of Title 42, or the thought was by Republicans
that it results in a flood of migrants. The border numbers have
fallen over 70 percent of migrants in the past few months. It
also finds that trust cities, that both property and violent
crime decreased more in those counties than in nontrust
counties after 2014.
In fact, they found that on average there are 35.5 fewer
crimes per 10,000 people in these ``trust counties.''
Reinforcing this, the effect is even more pronounced in large
urban areas which have been condemned by my Republican friends.
I happen to live in a city that is enormously diverse, and that
is Houston, Texas, and we are proudly so.
Houston has--more than 26 percent of our Houston metro area
GDP is contributed to by immigrants, five billion to Social
Security, and 1.4 billion to Medicare. Immigrants make up over
30 percent of the employed labor force. They fill labor
shortages in the Houston market.
Yes, if you have done the crime, I want ICE to be able to
do its job. I see nothing that has prevented them from doing
so. The poverty levels are not as high in trust counties.
So, let me ask, Sheriff Batista, if I have not gotten your
title right, forgive me, because I appreciate you coming here.
Is the title right, Sheriff? Chief. Excuse me. Let me ask you
if I might, we have sheriffs and chiefs in Texas. I know you do
as well.
Let me ask you this. First, we have accusatory commentary
of Soros DAs. Let's not put an individual that is not here, a
contributing American, and jeopardize his life, for always
throwing his name out in the most ugliest of ways. I am
offended by that. Mr. Soros does not deserve that. He is an
American and a patriot, and he also comes from a minority
community, one might say, and you create a dangerous situation.
That is unfortunate.
Chief, how should the Federal government help support these
jurisdictions while also ensuring the immigration law is
enforced? When I say ``these jurisdictions,'' I am suggesting
jurisdictions who may be more prone for immigrants, in some
instances migrants, how can we work with you better? Chief?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Ms. Jackson Lee, thank you
for the question. I would say that the division of labor, the
fact that Federal government is charged with the
responsibilities of Federal immigration should continue to be
that way. We can work alongside Federal immigration in
situations where we are dealing with violent felons, certainly,
for the safety of our Nation and our community.
The work of ensuring public safety in our neighborhoods and
our cities day to day, that is our responsibility, and we can't
be drawn into the daily issues of low-level immigration cases,
where we are more responsible to the primary public safety
needs of our communities.
The work of Federal immigration and immigration enforcement
lies with them, and it should stay with them.
Ms. Jackson Lee. If you build trust in your community with
citizen/noncitizen, migrant/nonmigrant, immigrant/nonimmigrant,
can you help solve crimes? Can your community be safer if
people are willing to come and tell you where the criminal is?
Mr. Batista. Without a doubt, ma'am.
Ms. Jackson Lee. That is how crime goes down.
Mr. Batista. Absolutely.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
Mr. Nehls.
Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Chair. Thank you all for being here.
Mr. Rosenberg, you have heard just about every Member here
express their condolences for the loss of your son back in
2010. I feel your pain here. I just want you to know that
tomorrow--this week--I will be reintroducing the Justice for
Angel Families Act, and that legislation would amend the Crime
Victims Fund to expand funds to angel families who are victims
of homicide by an illegal immigrant.
I think Ms. Jackson Lee just expressed her sorrow to you,
so I am hoping that I can get some bipartisan support on that
to help victims, individuals that have been murdered, as a
result of activities from illegal aliens. So, hopefully we can
get some bipartisan support on that.
Mr. Rosenberg. Thank you.
Mr. Nehls. Mr. Fabbricatore, thank you for being here. The
shocking decline in enforcement activity, my friend at our
Southern border must be sickening to a guy like you an ICE
enforcement removal officer like yourself. I can't imagine how
you feel, having dedicated your entire career to enforcement of
U.S. immigration laws, and then seeing what is happening today.
I want to talk about some of the arrest numbers that we see
behind me on this chart. They were pulled from ICE's own data.
Before we get into that, I just want to let you know we talked
to--you talked about detainers, ICE detainers. I was a sheriff
for eight years. I was in it for almost 30. As a sheriff, I
complied with every single ICE detainer that ever came through
my office.
Now, we had a few that didn't, and Texas created a law that
stated that if a sheriff does not comply with the detainer from
ICE that they could potentially be removed from office, and I
support that. So, hopefully sheriffs have straightened
themselves out a little bit, and they comply with every single
ICE detainer.
Can you explain why the number in arrests have dropped so
drastically over the last couple of years?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Well, I think there are definitely a lot
of different reasons. One, the priorities for sure, but also,
because of what is happening at the border moves into the
interior, so every single State is now a border State. ICE
officers are now having to process those cases from the border
at their ICE offices. So, instead of being on the street and
making these arrests, they are forced to stay in the office and
just process cases.
Mr. Nehls. Got it. Got it. My time as sheriff, I ran for
Congress because I was just disgusted what took place at the
Southern border. I am going to highlight a few of the cases
that I had. I had six undocumented immigrants burglarize 70
homes; six of them they were undocumented. They were in Fort
Bend County. They were in Brazoria County. We arrested six of
them. All of them had entered the U.S. illegally. They were
from Honduras and Mexico.
What is interesting is that when they burglarized a home,
you know who they targeted? They targeted Indian, Asian, and
Middle Eastern communities. Think about that now. They targeted
the minority migrant communities. They stole hides and jewelry.
They stole money.
January 26, 2017, we arrested 17 individuals. They were
from Colombia. One hundred 20 break-ins, again, stole jewelry,
purses, working with HPD--Sheila, we were working with HPD--
worked very, very hard. One of the individuals, this bad
hombre, he was actually deported in 2014 and had ties to
terrorism. He had terrorist ties to the FARC, which is a
terrorist group coming out of Colombia.
A lot of these guys have been deported more than one time,
yet they continue to find their way back here to commit more
crime. Three of them had been previously deported, and this guy
I have highlighted him before. This gentleman killed a senior
lady in my county, and he is from Honduras, and he--just a
second.
So, he has been deported six previous times. So, we talked
earlier, that we are going to talk about what is happening
inside the country, right? When you are in the country and you
commit a crime and you are deported, how do you get back here
so quickly? This guy came back December 2001 and 2012-2015.
They are back within several months, this guy, and he killed.
So, we have serious, serious issues.
Mr. Batista, I just want to kind of talk--I know
Representative Nadler brought up to you about this White
supremacist or nationalist or something, the domestic
terrorist, that killed individuals, shot and killed. It is
horrible, horrible, what happened, and he asked you, how has
that affected the Mexican community? What was your answer? Did
you say they are kind of going underground, do you believe?
They are scared as a result.
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Mr. Nehls, that is correct.
Mr. Nehls. OK. How do you think the communities--the Asians
and the Pakistanis and the Middle Eastern communities feel when
their homes are being burglarized, they steal all their family
heirlooms, right, they are here trying to live and try to come
here legally, and then they are victims of crime by these
illegal alien criminals. How do you think they feel? What
should they feel? You are a sheriff or a lawman.
Mr. Batista. Mr. Nehls, I think we should all be outraged
by any criminal activity.
Mr. Nehls. Mr. Batista, they are madder than hell. They are
madder than hell. It requires guys like me and others to put
these individuals--and it is the Federal government's
responsibility to keep them out of our country.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman's--
Mr. Nehls. With that, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
Ms. Ross.
Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Rosenberg, I, too, want to express my sympathy for you
and for your loss, and my heart goes out to you. We should all
endeavor to crack down on people who commit serious violent
crime, no matter who they are or where they come from. So, I am
very sorry for your loss.
This hearing--and I am toward the end, so I have gotten to
listen to the whole thing--is yet another attempt to scare the
public about immigration and immigrants. We have seen with my
colleague's chart, and heard today, that crime rates among
immigrants, both legal and undocumented, are lower than those
among native-born Americans. That doesn't excuse the crime. It
is just a fact.
Today I want to do something a little upbeat. I want to
highlight an all-American city in my district in North
Carolina. It is called Morrisville, an all-American city that
was awarded in 2021 and recognized Morrisville for its
inclusive civic engagement to build equity and create stronger
connections among residents, businesses, nonprofits, and
government leaders.
Morrisville was one of only 10 cities selected for this
award in 2021, and it is also home to a thriving immigrant
community. More than 35 percent of Morrisville's residents are
immigrants, four times greater than the immigrant population
rate of North Carolina.
Despite what Republicans would have you believe about towns
and cities with large immigrant populations, Morrisville
doesn't experience high crime rates. In fact, both violent
crime and property crime rates fall below the State as well as
the national averages in Morrisville.
Additionally, Morrisville's poverty rate is \1/3\ of the
rate in North Carolina. Not only is Morrisville a safe place to
live, but its residents are also highly educated. The high
school graduation rate is 10 percent higher than North Carolina
State average, and the town population with a bachelor's degree
or higher is more than double the State average.
Morrisville is moving North Carolina forward and is home to
some of the brightest minds in the Nation, and it has become a
tech hub for the Research Triangle.
There is a sad thing about Morrisville and all of these
immigrants there. Because of our broken immigration system,
many of the people who brought their children here have
children who are aging out of the visa process, and their
children will be what my colleagues on the other side of the
aisle call illegal aliens, kids who came here documented, but
because of our broken immigration system, and the long lines
for getting a visa, at age 21 they have to self-deport.
It is about time that we stop vilifying all immigrants,
claiming that they are not making our country better. I am here
to tell you that I am so proud to represent Morrisville and the
immigrants in my community. We need to focus on violent crime
wherever it comes from, and we need to celebrate industry and
family however it is celebrated.
Now, I do have a question for Chief Batista. You have
served in law enforcement for 37 years across two border
states. Would you agree that the vast majority of undocumented
immigrants that you have encountered are otherwise law-abiding
individuals who want nothing more than the American dream?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Ms. Ross, that is correct.
Ms. Ross. Do you think that it makes sense to try to deport
every one of these undocumented immigrants, or would it make
more sense to focus enforcement efforts on serious criminals,
whether those folks are undocumented or documented?
Mr. Batista. Yes, ma'am. I would agree.
Ms. Ross. Finally, could you just very briefly--we only
have a couple minutes--discuss how reforming our immigration
system by creating additional legal pathways will make our
communities safer?
Mr. Batista. My experience, nearly 40 years, and certainly
the data has shown that, yes, improving and legally documenting
our immigrant communities will make our country safer.
Ms. Ross. Thank you. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
Mr. Batista, Chief Batista, I assume that the policies that
you have advocated here today are the policies that you have
practiced as Chief of the Santa Monica Police Department since
you took that position in October 2021?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, yes, sir. That is correct.
Mr. McClintock. Well, forgive me, but according to a CBS
report from April 2022, Santa Monica was one of the most unsafe
cities in California. In fact, according to the city's first
quarter 2023 crime statistics, crime is getting worse overall.
Part 1 offenses, the most serious offenses, have increased
14 percent in the first quarter of 2023 when compared with the
same timeframe in 2022 when Santa Monica was already rated one
of the most unsafe cities in California, 224th I believe. So,
the policies you have advocated don't seem to be working.
Mr. Batista. Those statistics are correct as you have
enumerated them, Chair McClintock.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Mr. Fabbricatore, we have heard
the discredited Cato study hold out once again using the Texas
DPS numbers. It is discredited because they didn't include
certain visa holders, DPS beneficiaries, doctor recipients
among the others, which means that they got a cut of the
population of illegal aliens who were arrested rather
dramatically.
What we have heard today from the Democrats is the same
tactic they use repeatedly in these discussions. They love to
confuse legal immigrants, who are the very epitome of law-
abiding individuals, they have obeyed all our laws, they have
waited patiently in line, they have done everything our country
has asked of them, and they love to equate them, these model
people, with illegal immigrants whose very first act entering
this country through the Southern border is to break our laws.
Would you elaborate on that?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, sir. As a Field Office Director, my
favorite thing to do would be to go to naturalization
ceremoneys and see people raise their right hand and swear
allegiance to this country and become citizens. We are a
country of immigrants, and we should do it legally like many
people have.
When we allow people to just continuously come in and break
our immigration laws, it is constantly getting worse. We can no
longer get a hold on it. The border is not operationally safe.
The interior of the United States, more and more crime is
starting to be committed, and we need to do something about it.
We need to figure out what that is going to be.
Congress can change the laws, if they choose to. We really
need to get a hold on this because it is getting out of hand.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Rosenberg, did you want to add
anything?
Mr. Rosenberg. Well, I actually had made some notes, and
the one thing that I was going to add is conflating immigrants
with illegal immigrants--with illegal aliens--
Mr. McClintock. The Democrats do this all the time. It is
so unfair and insulting to every legal immigrant in this
country. I find it infuriating and insulting.
Mr. Rosenberg. Well, it is. I just wanted to--I know Ms.
Escobar left the room, but she made a comment about painting
immigrants with crime. What I think--the correct statement is
that--``you'' being the Democratic party--you can't paint
immigrant as crime by painting illegal aliens as immigrants.
So, let's stop. I haven't heard anybody here today talk about
immigrants in a negative way.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Fabbricatore--
Mr. Rosenberg. You guys keep saying it.
Mr. McClintock. I wanted to emphasize something to be sure
that I understood you correctly. You said that if the
deportations had simply continued as under the previous
administration, there would have been 90,000 more criminal
illegal aliens removed from this country?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes. If we looked at previous numbers, if
it would have just been--we would have been going in the same
direction--
Mr. McClintock. Ninety-thousand criminals.
Mr. Fabbricatore. Ninety-thousand criminals, yes.
Mr. McClintock. You also said 300,000 crimes?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes. Because the recidivist rate--what we
are seeing with statistics is there is a recidivism rate with
criminal illegal aliens, and that is about four per alien.
Mr. McClintock. Are you saying that there are 300,000 more
American families who have suffered acts of crime as a result
of this administration's policies?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, sir.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Schoenleben, could you explain
California's sanctuary laws and policies and how they affect
overall crime in your jurisdiction?
Mr. Schoenleben. Yes. Mr. Chair, what we have seen in our
State already is we have individuals of the criminal element
coming to our State to commit our crimes. What I want to be
very clear for our office, we are not talking about immigrants
as a whole.
We are talking about the criminal element that is
exploiting our border and our policies such as the ESTA
Program. It is those individuals that our office is here
representing on behalf of victims today. It is because those
individuals are exploiting those loopholes and committing mass
amounts of crimes.
As a quick example, per the FBI, the Chilean nationals that
are committing the vast majority of crime in Southern
California, 85 percent of those individuals have criminal
histories back in Chile. Those are individuals that never
should have been granted an ESTA visa in the first place. They
are individuals that never should have been here. Nor should
the Colombian nationals who claim--falsely claim asylum to only
get into this country to commit crime. It is the criminal
organizations and the transnational criminal crews that we are
talking about today, not immigrants as a whole, and they are
flocking to California.
Mr. McClintock. All right. Thanks very much.
I believe that concludes the panel. Mr. Moore.
Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. McClintock. Thanks to all the
witnesses for being here today. We had Sheriff Dannels before
this Committee a few weeks ago, gentlemen, and he testified
that the border had never been more secure than it was in 2018.
He had never seen it more broken than it is currently.
Mr. Fabbricatore, why would people South of the border
throw their IDs down before getting to the border?
Mr. Fabbricatore. They don't want people to know who they
are. That is the exact reason they try to lose their ID.
Mr. Moore. So, you are saying, they throw their ID down.
Nobody knows who they are. They come in the country. In
Prattville a few months ago, I had a 14-year-old girl, it is
alleged that an illegal drug her into a rest room and raped her
in a restaurant there in Prattville, Alabama in my district, a
29-year-old, identified as an unaccompanied minor. He didn't
have any ID and it was found out later he was from Honduras,
and he actually had a criminal record, so you think they throw
their IDs down, so we just don't know who they are?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Exactly.
Mr. Moore. Got you. Mr. Schoenleben, that is a Southern way
of pronouncing your name. You mentioned earlier in your
testimony that Chilean nationals are actually turning
themselves in. Are they turning themselves in to the CBP? Is
that what is going on?
Mr. Schoenleben. No, Your Honor--
Mr. Moore. That is close enough.
Mr. Schoenleben. No, sir. Colombians are turning themselves
in and claiming asylum at the border. Once they get into the
border, they wait a few days in detention and then they are
released with a promise to appear in court which they never do.
So, criminal organizations are targeting that method of entry
on purpose. Once they are into the country, then they can
commit crime at will and they are doing so in a fairly
sophisticated manner.
Mr. Moore. So, that explains the increase in break-ins we
are seeing. Is that Colombians you think who are doing that or
is it--
Mr. Schoenleben. It is, in general, it is everyone. Crime
is going through the roof on all scales, both domestic and
international, but that is part of our problem. We keep talking
about the different groups that are committing crime. There is
no question that domestic criminals are committing crime here.
That is part of the problem. When we start importing criminals
who are already criminals in their country and then you add
that to law enforcement which is already at a breaking point,
that is a problem.
A great example, Irvine, California, which is considered
one of the safest cities in the country, recently for 6 months
straight had to deploy detectives in overtime capacity to try
to combat this very problem. While they had streets flooded
with detectives, they were still hit by transnational organized
crews committing crimes such as residential burglaries. So,
these law enforcement agencies are already stretched thin and
then you add that element of exploitation. It is a breaking
point.
Mr. Moore. We had a hearing in Yuma, Arizona, and the law
enforcement agents there testified or told us, actually, during
testimony, that they had 109 different countries come through
that one small town. The interesting thing I think was that the
border agents have almost become concierge guys. They are not
doing the job anymore of what we want, law enforcement going
out actually patrolling the border. They have become concierge
and they are in-processing people. Here is an interesting
thing, under this administration, they actually can apply for
asylum. So, they get a cell phone. Then they get taxpayer
subsidies up to about $900 a month. The thing is they take our
phones, but they don't take our calls when it is time to show
up to court. So, doing away with the remaining Mexico policies,
they are throwing their IDs down, they are pouring across the
Southern border.
Mr. Batista, I want to mention this to you. Mr. Wray, the
Director of FBI testified in here yesterday, that he was having
a very difficult time controlling crime, especially concerning
fentanyl because it is pouring across. Do you think the open
border, Mr. Batista is causing--making your job more difficult?
Is that why we are seeing statistics go up in your
neighborhoods with the increased crime?
Mr. Batista. Chair McClintock, Mr. Moore, I believe that we
need to have strong border security without a doubt, and I do
believe that the influx of fentanyl that is coming from
different parts of the world and definitely afflicting our
community.
Mr. Moore. Interesting testimony we also heard, you may
have heard this, but what is happening, the cartel is actually
allowing these people to become drug dealers. So, they are
coming in just South of the border, you are four or five grand
if you are coming from Mexico to come into our country. You are
going to pay about seven or eight thousand if you are coming
from the triangle Nations. Last I heard, Russians were paying
$19,000 and Syrians were paying $20,000 to the cartel.
Here is the deal. If you don't have the money, gentlemen,
you can backpack heroin and cocaine or fentanyl across that
U.S. Southern border, so you are not an indentured servant or a
slave to the cartel, you are actually now a drug dealer. So,
the border policies with the Biden Administration are creating
two things in this country. Either drug mills or indentured
slaves to the cartel. So, they are making those installment
payments back.
So, Mr. Rosenberg, how many years have you been coming here
hoping to get some resolve for the loss of your son and that is
why I didn't offer condolences because you said you have gotten
more condolences than you can count and you need actually some
kind of commitment. How long have you been fighting this
battle?
Mr. Rosenberg. Well, I started in early 2011, mostly
working in California, and ironically, mostly working on people
driving without licenses, not an immigration issue. The guy who
killed my son probably fit the description of someone who came
here to better their life. Other than driving the wrong way on
a one-way street, driving without a license, we couldn't find
any crimes he had committed in 12 years.
Mr. Moore. Just that once.
Mr. Rosenberg. The problem is, he wasn't a threat to public
safety until he killed my son, that if he hadn't been here, it
wouldn't have happened. I come pretty much once or twice a
year.
Mr. Moore. I am running out of time. So, with that, Mr.
Chair, I will yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Hunt.
Mr. Hunt. Thank you all for being here today. Sir, my
condolences to your son. I am very sorry for your loss.
Mr. Rosenberg. Thank you.
Mr. Hunt. We are talking about the consequences of criminal
aliens in United States' communities. Take a walk around any
large city in America and you will see the devastating effects
of these open-border policies that we have seen ravage our
communities over the course of the past few years. Crime, gang
activity, drugs, just to name a few, but there is a far more
sinister of criminal activity that is not as visible as drug
trafficking, gang activity, or just the general degradation of
our cities. It is far worse, actually or worse to me. It is
human trafficking.
I love my city of Houston. Houston is known as the energy
capital of the world. It is known as a lot of great things,
great food as well, but unfortunately, we are also known as the
human trafficking capital of the world as well. That has to
change.
I could tell you I am very proud to cosponsor a bill
introduced by my colleague, Sheila Jackson Lee. It is called
the Stop Human Trafficking in School Zones Act. This bipartisan
effort is necessary because that is how bad the problem is.
This bill will increase the prison time up to five years for
certain human trafficking offenses and sex offenses involving
minors that occur within a thousand feet of schools, within a
hundred feet of certain other places where children gather,
like youth centers and swimming pools.
As a father of three children under the age of five, these
people belong in a special place in hell if you ask me. Five
years, not enough, is a start.
One thing that I do know is that if President Biden and the
Democrat Governors and mayors were serious about human
trafficking, they would stop their destructive sanctuary city
policies. You gentlemen have addressed this pretty clearly to
me.
Mr. Fabbricatore, thank you for being here, sir. I met you
earlier in the hallway. I have a question for you, sir. In your
23 years of experience working at INS and ICE, what can you
tell me about the seriousness of child trafficking and what you
personally experienced as a result of the issue that we have
seen with our open border policies?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Well, No. 1, I mean they stopped the DNA
testing at the border, so we were testing adults to see if they
had a DNA match with children. That policy has stopped, and I
cannot figure out for the life of me why you would not want to
figure out if a child that is being brought into the United
States actually belongs to the adult that they are traveling
with. Now, we have stopped that, so now we are allowing these
people to bring these children into the interior and we have no
idea who they belong to. We have no idea if there is a familial
connection. This is wrong. It needs to stop.
We have children being brought in and we have children
missing right now. We don't even know where they are because
they have been brought in and they have either absconded, they
have gone off. They are being used to traffick drugs. Myself,
in my career, I have arrested juveniles dealing heroin on
jogging paths. So, these juveniles are being used by the
cartels to deal drugs and they are being brought into this
country and the fact that we have stopped the DNA program, this
administration stopped it, it is unfathom-
able to me.
Mr. Hunt. Do you agree that child sex trafficking as a
result of this crisis at our Southern border has increased?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, sir. I do.
Mr. Hunt. Without equivocation?
Mr. Fabbricatore. Yes, I agree.
Mr. Hunt. Biden's policies, they have resulted in countless
numbers of minors being abused and bussed across our border and
sold into sex slavery. Under the guise of protecting illegal
aliens, the Biden Administration is, in fact, protecting human
traffickers and harming God's children, our children.
Now, many of my colleagues on the left may say that we are
unfairly targeting illegal aliens and that American citizens
commit crimes, too. I have also heard racism being blamed and
xenophobia being blamed, and I can tell you as a Black man for
a very long time, I am not racist nor xenophobic, I just want
us to enforce our laws and I expect them to be abided by so
that we can save our children.
I have also heard some of my colleagues on the left say
that the global sex trafficking of children is a QAnon
conspiracy. According to The New York Times, 85,000 migrant
children that have our country have been lost. They have
vanished and where do you think they went? Exactly where they
went and what is happening is grotesque. It is wrong. If we
can't protect our children, if we can't protect the world's
children, then we absolutely have no future.
I cannot thank you enough for being here. I cannot thank
you enough for your hard work and your sacrifice.
Sir, we will do better because we have to. Thank you for
all your efforts and I am sorry for the loss of your son. God
bless you and thank you.
I yield back the rest of my time.
Mr. Fabbricatore. Thank you.
Mr. McClintock. Does that now conclude our questions? I
believe it does. Very well. Well timed, too. I see two bells on
the board. Thank you all for being here today. Without
objection, all Members will have five legislative days to
submit additional written questions for the witnesses or
additional materials for the record. With that, again, our
sincere thanks to all of you for making the trip here today.
With that, the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 5:04 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
All materials submitted for the record by Members of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=116200.
[all]