[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
UNEARTHING INNOVATION:
THE FUTURE OF SUBSURFACE SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY IN THE UNITED STATES
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENERGY
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
AND TECHNOLOGY
OF THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JULY 26, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-22
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
52-987PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
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COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HON. FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California, Ranking
RANDY WEBER, Texas Member
BRIAN BABIN, Texas SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
JIM BAIRD, Indiana HALEY STEVENS, Michigan
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
MIKE GARCIA, California DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
JAY OBERNOLTE, California ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina
DARRELL ISSA, California KEVIN MULLIN, California
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas JEFF JACKSON, North Carolina
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York EMILIA SYKES, Ohio
RYAN ZINKE, Montana MAXWELL FROST, Florida
SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida YADIRA CARAVEO, Colorado
DALE STRONG, Alabama SUMMER LEE, Pennsylvania
MAX MILLER, Ohio JENNIFER McCLELLAN, Virginia
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia TED LIEU, California
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia SEAN CASTEN, Illinois,
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York Vice Ranking Member
TOM KEAN, New Jersey PAUL TONKO, New York
VACANCY
------
Subcommittee on Energy
HON. BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York, Chairman
RANDY WEBER, Texas JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
JIM BAIRD, Indiana Ranking Member
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma SUMMER LEE, Pennsylvania
CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
MAX MILLER, Ohio ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
TOM KEAN, New Jersey VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina
C O N T E N T S
July 26, 2023
Page
Hearing Charter.................................................. 2
Opening Statements
Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Chairman, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 7
Written Statement............................................ 8
Statement by Representative Jamaal Bowman, Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Energy, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 9
Written Statement............................................ 10
Written statement by Representative Zoe Lofgren, Ranking Member,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 11
Witnesses:
Dr. Alexandra Hakala, Senior Fellow, Geologic and Environmental
Systems, National Energy Technology Laboratory, U.S. Department
of Energy
Oral Statement............................................... 12
Written Statement............................................ 14
Mr. Ben Serrurier, Government Affairs and Policy Manager, Fervo
Energy
Oral Statement............................................... 25
Written Statement............................................ 27
Dr. Kevin M. Rosso, Associate Director, Physical Sciences
Division, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory
Oral Statement............................................... 35
Written Statement............................................ 37
Dr. Haruko Murakami Wainwright, Norman C. Rasmussen Career
Development Professor, Assistant Professor of Nuclear Science
and Engineering, and Assistant Professor of Civil and
Environmental Engineering, Massachusetts Institute of
Technology
Oral Statement............................................... 40
Written Statement............................................ 42
Ms. Allyson Book, Chief Sustainability Officer, Baker Hughes
Oral Statement............................................... 49
Written Statement............................................ 51
Discussion....................................................... 56
Appendix: Additional Material for the Record
Documents submitted by the Western Governors' Association
Policy Resolution 2022-01, ``Energy in the West''............ 74
``The Heat Beneath Our Feet: The Initiative of Colorado
Governor Jared Polis''..................................... 81
UNEARTHING INNOVATION:
THE FUTURE OF SUBSURFACE SCIENCE
AND TECHNOLOGY IN THE UNITED STATES
----------
WEDNESDAY, JULY 26, 2023
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Energy,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:24 p.m., in
room 2318 of the Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Frank
Lucas presiding.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Lucas. The Committee on Energy will come to order.
Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recess of
the Subcommittee at any time.
Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``Unearthing
Innovation: The Future of Subsurface Science and Technology in
the United States.'' And before I recognize myself for five
minutes in an opening statement, I would simply note that our
Subcommittee Chairman, Mr. Williams, is under the weather, and
I and other Members on the Republican side will be tag-teaming
presiding today over this hearing. And we expect him to be back
very promptly.
That said, today, the Energy Subcommittee will explore the
status of U.S. subsurface science and technology research, a
field of study that's highly relevant for Americans all around
the country, including those in my home State of Oklahoma. Our
country has significant subsurface energy resources, and, if
harnessed correctly, these resources have the capacity to
provide all Americans with clean, baseload power and secure
energy storage for generations to come.
Subsurface science encompasses a broad range of
technologies and energy sources, ranging from next-generation
mining and mineral extraction to advanced geothermal energy and
carbon sequestration. A strong understanding of subsurface
systems is essential not only for harnessing today's resources,
but for expanding our clean energy portfolio, sustaining
critical domestic energy supplies, and ensuring that the long-
term storage of carbon dioxide and nuclear waste.
Despite significant advances in recent years, the
fundamental and applied research in these fields faces unique
challenges associated with accessing the subsurface. That's why
robust support for subsurface R&D (research and development) is
critical for U.S. energy independence and national security. On
the Science Committee, we prioritize the fundamental and early
stage research that leads to groundbreaking technologies, and
subsurface science is truly one of these areas, a
multidisciplinary field of study that maximizes return on
investment by advancing several clean energy pathways at once.
This is an important segment of our all-of-the-above clean
energy strategy.
While I look forward to hearing from our subsurface experts
here today, I'm particularly pleased to see representation from
the U.S. geothermal industry. Advanced geothermal technologies
have the potential to transform the U.S. energy sector.
Geothermal is a source of clean and renewable energy that is
always on. Yet, although the United States leads the world in
geothermal power production, geothermal still contributes less
than one percent of the total utility scale U.S. electricity
generation. While I've seen the value of geothermal energy in
my district with Oklahoma's thriving geothermal heat pumps
industry, more work needs to be done to allow the rest of the
country to access the full power of this resource. federally
funded research programs at the Department of Energy (DOE) have
a history of paving the way for industry innovation. It is
critically important to our clean energy future that we have
the support they need to pursue research that industry cannot
undertake. That's why, three years ago, the Science Committee
worked to get my bill, the Advanced Geothermal Research and
Development Act, signed into law as a part of the bipartisan
Energy Act of 2020. This legislation provided DOE with a
comprehensive reauthorization of its geothermal technologies
R&D activities, including its Frontier Observatory for Research
in Geothermal Energy, FORGE as some of us call it, program,
directing DOE to partner with industry and academia to improve
the next generation of geothermal energy systems.
Just last week, a participant in the FORGE program, Fervo
Energy here with us today--you can correct me on that--
announced a record advanced achievement of an enhanced
geothermal system (EGS) site. I hope that this afternoon we can
get a clearer picture of the outcome of some of these kinds of
investments and recommendations for appropriate next steps. I
also look forward to our larger discussions that will improve
our understanding of the subsurface environment that both DOE
and U.S. industry are advancing groundbreaking activities to
meet our present and future energy resource needs.
Recently, I was fortunate enough to visit Baker Hughes'
research facilities in Oklahoma and saw firsthand the potential
for industry collaboration and technology transfer between
subsurface energy sectors and applications. If we want to
ensure a diverse portfolio of clean energy technologies now and
in the future, we in Congress should prioritize this kind of
important fundamental research and partnership.
I want to thank our witnesses for the testimony, and I look
forward to a very productive discussion.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Lucas follows:]
Good afternoon. Today, the Energy Subcommittee will explore
the status of U.S. subsurface science and technology research,
a field of study that is highly relevant for Americans around
the country, including in my home state of Oklahoma.
Our country has significant subsurface energy resources,
and, if harnessed correctly, these resources have the
capability to provide all Americans with clean baseload power
and secure energy storage for generations to come.
Subsurface science encompasses a broad range of
technologies and energy sources, ranging from next generation
mining and minerals extraction to advanced geothermal energy
and carbon sequestration.
A strong understanding of subsurface systems is essential,
not only for harnessing today's resources, but also for
expanding our clean energy portfolio, sustaining critical
domestic supply chains, and ensuring the long-term storage of
carbon dioxide and nuclear waste.
Despite significant advances in recent years, the
fundamental and applied research in these fields faces unique
challenges associated with accessing the subsurface. That's why
robust support for subsurface R&D is critical for U.S. energy
independence and national security.
On the Science Committee, we prioritize the fundamental and
early-stage research that leads to groundbreaking technologies.
And subsurface science is truly one of these areas, a
multidisciplinary field of study that maximizes return on
investment by advancing several key clean energy pathways at
once.
It is an important segment of our all-of-the-above clean
energy strategy.
While I look forward to hearing from all our subsurface
experts here today, I'm particularly pleased to see
representation from the U.S. geothermal industry.
Advanced geothermal technologies have the potential to
transform the U.S. energy sector. Geothermal is a source of
clean and renewable energy that is always ``on.''
Yet although the United States leads the world in
geothermal power production, geothermal still contributes less
than one percent to the total utility-scale U.S. electricity
generation.
While I've seen the value of geothermal energy in my
district with Oklahoma's thriving geothermal heat pumps
industry, more work needs to be done to allow the rest of the
country to access the full power of this resource.
Federally funded research programs at the Department of
Energy (DOE) have a history of paving the way for industry
innovation.
It is critically important to our clean energy future that
they have the support they need to pursue research that
industry cannot undertake.
That's why, three years ago, the Science Committee worked
to get my bill, the Advanced Geothermal Research and
Development Act, signed into law as part of the bipartisan
Energy Act of 2020.
This legislation provided DOE with a comprehensive
reauthorization of its geothermal technologies R&D activities,
including its Frontier Observatory for Research in Geothermal
Energy (FORGE) program, directing DOE to partner with industry
and academia to improve the next generation of geothermal
energy systems.
Just last week, a participant of the FORGE program, Fervo
Energy--here with us today--announced a record achievement for
an enhanced geothermal system site.
I hope that this afternoon, we can get a clear picture of
the outcome of some of these kinds of investments, and
recommendations for appropriate next steps.
I also look forward to our larger discussions that will
improve our understanding of the subsurface environment and how
DOE and U.S. industry are advancing groundbreaking activities
to meet our present and future energy resource needs.
Recently, I was fortunate enough to visit Baker Hughes'
research facilities in Oklahoma and saw firsthand the potential
for industry collaboration and technology transfer between
subsurface energy sectors and applications.
If we want to ensure a diverse portfolio of clean energy
technologies now and in the future, we in Congress should
prioritize this kind of important fundamental research and
partnerships.
I want to thank our witnesses for their testimony and I
look forward to a productive discussion.
Chairman Lucas. And with that, I now recognize the Ranking
Member, the gentleman from New York, for his opening statement.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, for convening
us here today. And thank you to our panel of expert witnesses
for appearing before this Committee to talk about a topic that
is relevant to several technologies that we must use to enable
our clean energy future.
Understanding the natural processes of the Earth and how we
can sustainably harness its resources is essential to human
well-being, and a lot of our unanswered questions lay in the
rock and soil beneath our feet in the subsurface of the Earth.
There too can be found one of our most promising technologies
for building a climate-safe future. Geothermal energy
technology allows us to utilize the warmth naturally captured
in the subsurface of the Earth to produce clean energy. We can
even use that heat directly to enable industrial processes that
need high temperatures to heat our homes.
Many communities in my district are pursuing the creation
of thermal energy networks to efficiently bring geothermal
power to clusters of public buildings and affordable housing,
which is very exciting. I am pleased to see President Biden's
Administration embrace geothermal energy, and I'm proud to have
joined with my colleagues here on the Science Committee to
support efforts to advance the technology.
I also understand that there has been a recent breakthrough
in geothermal technology development that one of our witnesses
here today can talk extensively about, and I greatly look
forward to that discussion.
Historically, a lot of the subsurface technology R&D
supported by the Department of Energy has focused on extracting
fossil fuels from the ground. We have learned a great deal on
how to harness resources in the subsurface, which can
thankfully now be applied to clean energy, as with geothermal.
This body of knowledge can also help us assess if and how
carbon can be safely stored in the underground.
But as we work to transition to a new clean energy system,
we must build in principles of equity and justice at every step
of the process. And I'm happy to see the President focusing on
exactly that through his Justice40 Initiative, which ensures
that 40 percent of the benefits from our Federal investments,
including science R&D, flow to the communities that have been
historically hit hardest by fossil fuel pollution.
The Department of Energy has also stewarded decades of
subsurface research related to understanding natural
terrestrial processes, such as the carbon and water cycles and
on applying the science to help understand how Manhattan
Project experiments impacted the environment. This emphasis on
biogeochemistry and material science not only helps us to
understand our responsibility to manage legacy contaminants,
but also helps us further the Earth sciences in general and
their application to climate action. This research that the
Department supports is part of a global effort to understand
and reduce the damage humans are causing to the Earth. It is
critical that we continue to fund these Federal investments in
climate science.
With that, I want to say thank you again to the Chair and
to our panel of distinguished witnesses for putting on this
hearing today, and I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Bowman follows:]
Thank you, Chairman Williams, for convening this hearing
today. And thank you to our panel of expert witnesses for
appearing before the Committee to talk about a topic that is
relevant to several technologies that we must use to enable our
clean energy future. Understanding the natural processes of the
earth and how we can sustainably harness its resources is
essential to human well-being. And a lot of our unanswered
questions lay in the rock and soil beneath our feet, in the
subsurface of the earth.
There, too, can be found one of our most promising
technologies for building a climate-safe future. Geothermal
technology allows us to utilize the warmth naturally captured
in the subsurface of the earth to produce clean energy. We can
even use that heat directly to enable industrial processes that
need high temperatures, or to heat our homes. Many communities
in my district are pursuing the creation of thermal energy
networks to efficiently bring geothermal power to clusters of
public buildings and affordable housing. I am pleased to see
PresidentBiden's administration embrace geothermal energy and
am proud to have joined with my colleagues here on the Science
Committee to support efforts to advance the technology. I also
understand that there has been a recent breakthrough in
geothermal technology development that one of our witnesses
here today can talk extensively about, and I greatly look
forward to that discussion.
Historically, a lot of the subsurface technology R&D
supported by the Department of Energy has focused on extracting
fossil fuels from the ground. We have learned a great deal on
how to harness resources in the subsurface which can thankfully
now be applied to clean energy, as with geothermal. This body
of knowledge can also help us assess if and how carbon can be
safely stored underground. But as we work to transition to a
new, clean energy system, we must buildin principles of equity
and justice at every step of the process. And I'm happy to see
the President focusing on exactly that through his Justice 40
initiative, which ensures that 40 percent of the benefits from
our federal investments, including science R&D, flow to the
communities that have historically been hit hardest by fossil
fuel pollution.
The Department of Energy has also stewarded decades of
subsurface research related to understanding natural
terrestrial processes, such as the carbon and water cycles, and
on applying this science to help understand how Manhattan
Project experiments impacted the environment. This emphasis on
biogeochemistry and materials science not only helps us to
understand our responsibility to manage legacy contaminants,
but also helps us further the earth sciences in general and
their application to climate action. This research that the
Department supports is part of a global effort to understand
and reduce the damage humans are causing to the earth. It is
critical that we continue to fund these federal investments in
climate science.
With that, I want to say thank you again to Mr. Williams
and to our panel of distinguished witnesses for putting on this
hearing today, and I yield back.
Mrs. Bice [presiding]. Thank you, Ranking Member Bowman.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]
Thank you, Chairman Williams, for holding today's hearing,
and I would also like to welcome our distinguished panel of
witnesses for being here to discuss this important topic.
Climate change causes real and present threats to our
constituents and communities. As the country strives to reach
our goal of net-zero emissions as quickly as possible, we must
broaden and accelerate our approach to advancing new
technologies that will get us there. Just last month, this
Committee held a hearing about the revolutionary potential that
fusion energy has as a clean energy source--as we see every day
in that giant fusion reactor in the sky called the sun. And
today we are turning to subsurface science and examining our
ability to unlock the immense geothermal energy resource that
resides well below our feet.
With help from the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, the
Department of Energy is conducting important efforts to
position the U.S. to use our subsurface resources effectively.
But we all need to recognize that this is going to require a
long-term effort to adequately improve our ability to assess,
monitor, and access critical subsurface resources.
While a lot of progress has been made in the past few
years, we need to double down on this work now--and this
Committee has the opportunity to help make that happen. A
better understanding of the subsurface would not only pave the
way to incorporating more geothermal energy into our electric
grid, but also enable advancements in geologic carbon and
hydrogen storage. All of these technologies are expected to
play a substantial role in our clean energy future, so we
really don't have time to waste.
In addition, we will be discussing the importance of
subsurface science in accelerating nuclear waste cleanup
projects at legacy waste sites across the country, some of
which date back to the Manhattan Project. The communities
around these sites deserve safe and healthy environments, and
we should be doing everything in our power to ensure that
that's exactly what they have.
For all of these reasons, I think this hearing is good step
forward in improving our national capability for subsurface
science for a broad range of important applications. I look
forward to today's conversation, and thank the witnesses again
for being here today.
Mrs. Bice. And at this time, let me introduce our
witnesses. Our first witness today is Dr. Alexandra Hakala, a
Senior Fellow for Geologic and Environmental Systems at the
National Energy Technology Laboratory (NETL). Our next witness
is Mr. Ben Serrurier, the Government Affairs and Policy Manager
for Fervo Energy. Our third witness, with a much easier-to-
pronounce name, is Dr. Kevin Rosso, the Associate Director of
Physical Sciences Division for Geochemistry at Pacific
Northwest National Laboratory (PNNL). Next is Dr. Haruko
Murakami Wainwright, the Norman C. Rasmussen Career Development
Professor, Assistant Professor of Nuclear Science and
Engineering, and Assistant Professor of Civil and Environmental
Engineering at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology). And
the last witness is Ms. Allyson Book, Chief Sustainability
Officer for Baker Hughes.
I now recognize Dr. Hakala for five minutes to present her
testimony.
TESTIMONY OF DR. ALEXANDRA HAKALA, SENIOR FELLOW,
GEOLOGIC AND ENVIRONMENTAL SYSTEMS,
NATIONAL ENERGY TECHNOLOGY LABORATORY,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY
Dr. Hakala. Thank you, Congresswoman Bice, Ranking Member
Bowman, and Members of the Subcommittee. Thank you for this
opportunity to testify on subsurface science and its vital role
in understanding and harnessing the vast resources beneath our
feet.
I'm Dr. Alexandra Hakala, a Senior Research Physical
Scientist and Acting Senior Fellow for Geologic and
Environmental Systems, representing the National Energy
Technology Laboratory, or NETL, within the U.S. Department of
Energy.
DOE plays an essential role in advancing subsurface R&D to
secure America's energy future. Bringing together experts
across scientific fields, DOE is focused on better
understanding subsurface systems and optimizing their use to
ensure clean and reliable energy sources for the Nation.
Collaboration between DOE and the National Laboratories is
essential to drive this progress in subsurface science.
The DOE Science and Energy Innovation, or SEI, crosscut,
funds research, development, demonstration, and deployment so
we can assess, access, and monitor the subsurface more quickly
and accurately. These advancements will allow key technologies
in geothermal energy, geologic carbon storage, geologic
hydrogen storage, sustainable critical mineral extraction, and
geologic hydrogen sourcing to become market-competitive,
scalable, and permanent clean energy solutions.
The Office of Science's Advanced Scientific Computing
Research (ASCR) and Basic Energy Sciences programs are
supporting the fundamental research advancing our knowledge of
the subsurface. Meanwhile, the Office of Fossil Energy and
Carbon Management, or FECM, Carbon Transport and Storage
Program has supported projects like the Regional Carbon
Sequestration Partnerships, which conducted field tests to
safely store more than 11 million metric tons of CO2
and laid the foundation for regional initiative and commercial-
scale projects supported by the Carbon Storage Assurance
Facility Enterprise known as the CarbonSAFE Initiative.
Funded by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, CarbonSAFE
pairs with the Carbon Basin Assessment and Storage Evaluation,
or CarbonBASE, and Carbon Storage Technology Operations and
Research, CarbonSTORE Initiatives, designed to advance each
stage of carbon storage resources and projects as the CCS
(carbon capture and storage) industry is implemented over time.
The Carbon Transport and Storage Program also invests in
small-scale CO2 injection and research on storage
through mineralization. It's currently assessing potential
storage resources and surface and subsurface locations
nationwide. Proof-of-concept studies are being conducted in
volcanic basins and offshore basalts, exploring unconventional
storage resources to support regional decarbonization goals.
Two multi-lab initiatives, the National Risk Assessment
Partnership, or NRAP, and the Science-informed Machine Learning
for Accelerating Real-Time Decisions initiative, or SMART, are
working to reduce the uncertainty associated with geologic
carbon sequestration.
Meanwhile, the Energy Data eXchange, or EDX, maintains all
data from the Carbon Transport and Storage Program, including
NRAP and SMART tools, and enables users to find and apply
relevant data for carbon storage analyses. EDX works with other
agency data bases to provide comprehensive access to subsurface
data. These resources support site selection, risk analysis,
and decisionmaking processes.
Finally, I want to emphasize the significance of our
critical minerals and materials R&D and their potential to
advance sustainable mining practices. The subsurface holds
significant reserves of critical minerals, often inaccessible
due to depth or mining limitations. Many of these un-mineable
mineral resources can be unlocked using advanced subsurface
imaging, detection, drilling, and fluid-handling technologies.
The mines of the future will harness these advanced
technologies, allowing for the extraction of mineral wealth
with minimal surface and environmental impacts. As FECM's
National Laboratory, NETL's R&D efforts align with this vision
of a sustainable and environmentally responsible mineral
extraction industry, strengthening America's position in
critical minerals production.
At the same time, the Office of Science, primarily through
the Basic Energy Sciences, is supporting fundamental
experimental and theoretical research to understand the basic
properties of critical minerals and materials. This enables the
development of enhanced extraction, separation, and processing
methods, as well as discovery of substitutes for critical
materials that will perform equally well or better in the
technology applications we rely on.
So thank you very much, Committee, for this opportunity to
speak. And I'd like to highlight that through the collaboration
between the DOE offices and the National Laboratories on these
and other efforts, we are at the forefront of developing
sustainable and efficient solutions for subsurface resource
utilization and contributing to the Nation's energy security,
environmental stewardship, and technological leadership.
Thank you again for the opportunity to discuss these
cutting-edge innovations, and I'm happy to answer any
questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Hakala follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Dr. Hakala.
Next up, I recognize Mr. Serrurier for five minutes for his
testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. BEN SERRURIER, GOVERNMENT AFFAIRS
AND POLICY MANAGER, FERVO ENERGY
Mr. Serrurier. Thank you, Representative Bice, Ranking
Member Bowman, and Members of this Committee for the
opportunity to be here today. My name is Ben Serrurier. I'm the
Government Affairs and Policy Manager at Fervo Energy. We are
developing enhanced geothermal systems to deliver 24/7 clean
electricity. Our approach to EGS leverages drilling advances
from the natural gas industry to increase production, reduce
risk, and produce cost-competitive power from hot dry rock.
Harnessing domestic resources, literally the heat beneath
our feet, with American-made equipment and a homegrown
workforce that pulls directly from America's world leading oil
and gas industry, geothermal is a complete energy security
solution that has a major role to play in the future electric
grid.
This hearing is taking place at an opportune moment. Last
week, Fervo announced a major technological breakthrough,
proving that enhanced geothermal is commercially viable and
ready to scale. In removing the remaining technical barriers to
expanding geothermal, America is in position to dominate the
global market for this high-potential clean energy resource.
This breakthrough reflects the important technological progress
that has carried geothermal to this stage and shows the way
forward toward realizing its huge potential.
Enhanced geothermal today is in a similar place to the
natural gas industry roughly 15 years ago on the cusp of the
shale revolution. EGS benefits from the technology, experience,
and skilled workforce of pure subsurface industries, and it
will also benefit from following their commercialization
pathway. Following the shale playbook, the next phase of
innovation in geothermal will come from project standardization
and modular development, driving down costs through learning
and deployment. Fervo has demonstrated the effectiveness of EGS
technology, and we now have the opportunity to perfect it.
The Department of Energy and its national labs have been
instrumental in pioneering the technologies and techniques that
enabled first the shale gas boom and now breakthroughs in EGS.
Expanding these research and deployment investments in
geothermal is critical to meeting clean energy goals, while
safeguarding grid reliability, strengthening domestic energy
security, and creating high-paying jobs in manufacturing and
subsurface development.
In May, Fervo's commercial scale pilot project in northern
Nevada produced 3.5 megawatts of geothermal energy and
established itself as the first EGS project to achieve
commercial viability. This breakthrough signifies the official
commencement of what is likely to be yet another American-led
energy revolution.
Now, the key in tapping geothermal's potential is through
optimizing our subsurface approach in the same way natural gas
development utilizes standardized well designed to reduce
drilling time and increase production. Fervo has already
finished drilling its first well at a new field in southwest
Utah for a plant that will total over 400 megawatts and come
online before the end of the decade. And we're already seeing
this learning curve in action. Across our four drilled wells,
we've accomplished an 18 percent improvement in drilling
performance. This indicates that greater cost reduction is yet
still achievable.
Federal support for early stage R&D has been instrumental
in reaching this milestone, and Federal support for
demonstration and deployment will be just as important in
sustaining progress. Historically, funding for geothermal has
lagged other clean firm energy technologies, despite its recent
progress and large benefits per invested dollar. To that end,
we are eager for the DOE Geothermal Technologies Office to
invest its allocated funding from Fiscal Year 2023
appropriations for EGS demonstration projects.
While America is well-positioned to lead the geothermal
revolution, other countries are catching up. A single $100
million grant from the European Union to a project in Germany
is by itself $16 million more than the Bipartisan
Infrastructure Law provided to divide across all U.S. projects.
And China's most recent five-year plan on renewable energy
development includes a prominent role for Chinese geothermal
development and generation. The U.S. must capitalize on its
comparative advantage in subsurface technology, advanced
manufacturing, and project development. And by increasing
investment in EGS research and deployment will catalyze a wave
of American-built geothermal across the globe.
The shale gas revolution has shown us what is possible when
the government agencies, national labs, and universities work
together with industry to invest in subsurface exploration.
That journey of technological innovation, commercial
entrepreneurship, economic abundance, and energy security is
now continuing in geothermal. Now that EGS has proven
optimizing this technology through standardization and
modularity will deliver affordable and reliable clean energy
and jumpstart a globally significant American industry.
Thank you again for the opportunity to speak with you
today, and I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Serrurier follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Serrurier.
And at this time, I recognize Dr. Kevin Russo--Rosso,
excuse me--for five minutes for his testimony. Mr. Rosso,
you're recognized.
TESTIMONY OF DR. KEVIN M. ROSSO,
ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, PHYSICAL SCIENCES DIVISION,
PACIFIC NORTHWEST NATIONAL LABORATORY
Dr. Rosso. Thank you. Thank you very much, Congresswoman
Bice, Ranking Member Bowman, and Members of the Subcommittee.
Thanks for the opportunity to testify today. I'm Dr. Kevin
Rosso, Associate Director of the Physical Sciences Division for
Geochemistry at the DOE's PNNL, Pacific Northwest National
Laboratory. I lead a team of about 35 researchers on a range of
topics like predicting rates of CO2 mineralization
in the subsurface for storage, the chemical transformations of
nuclear waste for processing, and the transport of hazardous
materials in the subsurface. We focus on understanding the
reaction mechanisms at their core to help make more reliable
predictive models.
I'll make two main points today. The first is that
environments below ground are complex, and it's difficult for
us to see everything that we need to see to be able to readily
bring new energy systems online. But the good news is that
areas where we need technical innovations are clear. The second
is that to truly enable success at large scales will
undoubtedly require a sustained multidisciplinary effort
between national labs, universities, and industry, the kind
that we just heard about. Enabling meaningful partnerships is
important.
So let me summarize why. First, it goes without saying that
subsurface has so far been meeting most of our essential needs
as a clean source of energy--as a source of energy, clean
water, raw materials for construction, and critical elements.
And we're really quite good at finding and unearthing these
resources with relative ease. But we now hope to tap its
abundant heat for clean geothermal energy. We also want to use
it for energy storage from intermittent sources such as wind
and solar, and for disposal of hazardous materials like excess
CO2 and radioactive waste. To do these things at
large scale safely, efficiently, and with minimal environmental
impact brings new challenges.
Pilot projects demonstrating promise had been exciting to
watch unfold. This includes PNNL's Wallula CO2
injection pilot in Washington, showing rapid carbon
mineralization in the salt, below ground, and just recently,
Fervo Energy's successful well test that we just heard about,
which is fantastic.
The subsurface is structurally and chemically complex, and
we have limited ability to see important features or predict
their physical and chemical responses to change. To create an
enhanced geothermal system, for example, requires that we
accurately drill deep into hard rock and there creates an
interconnected and permeable fracture network between wells
through which fluid can easily be circulated that brings up
sufficient heat sustainably for years. All the while we've got
to avoid triggering earthquakes, losing fluid, flow, or heat
transfer over time. It is the need for predictive control and
long-term reliability that makes it a new ballgame.
Mastering this at the national scale requires that we learn
how to overcome the many uncertainties involved in subsurface
engineering, going beyond what industry can achieve alone. The
DOE has been proactive in cultivating and supporting research
to help fill critical gaps. Examples included SubTER initiative
launched in 2014 that identified adaptive control of subsurface
fractures and fluid flow as the core objective. A year later,
the geosciences program at the Office of Basic Energy Sciences
lead the report ``Controlling Subsurface Fractures and Fluid
Flow: A Basic Research Agenda,'' to define the fundamental
research needed to actually achieve this goal. But to be
honest, we are now--we are just now getting underway with the
R&D effort.
Some of these research priorities were recently featured in
funding opportunities from DOE's energy Earthshot Initiative,
to which PNNL responded with a multi-institutional team to
develop novel signal detection methods that could enable real-
time monitoring of the state of stress between boreholes for
enhanced geothermal. But this is just one small piece of the
larger team science effort truly needed to ultimately get us
from explorers to masters.
As research continues to onramp, I'd also like to emphasize
the importance of keeping our R&D infrastructure at the
bleeding edge. Key to this effect is ensuring that new and
advanced experimental and computational capabilities continue
at our national labs, universities, and DOE national user
facilities. This will help keep us at the forefront and help us
attract and retain top talent.
To conclude, though largely overlooked, the subsurface
provides most of the critical resources sustaining our present
way of life, and it's now poised for the foundation--to be the
foundation for our future. But our ambition to use it in new
ways is a grand challenge, requiring a lasting commitment to
basic and applied research.
Thank you for the opportunity to provide the Committee with
information on this topic. I'd be happy to answer any questions
you may have.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Rosso follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Dr. Rosso.
And at this time, I recognize Dr. Haruko Murakami
Wainwright for your testimony. You are recognized for five
minutes. Thank you.
TESTIMONY OF DR. HARUKO MURAKAMI WAINWRIGHT,
NORMAN C. RASMUSSEN CAREER DEVELOPMENT PROFESSOR,
ASSISTANT PROFESSOR OF NUCLEAR SCIENCE
AND ENGINEERING, AND ASSISTANT PROFESSOR
OF CIVIL AND ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING,
MASSACHUSETTS INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
Dr. Wainwright. Representative Bice, Ranking Member Bowman,
and the Members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity
to speak with you today. As a researcher at MIT and previously
at the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and University of
California Berkeley, I have been involved in DOE's subsurface
science-related programs for the past 15 years. I have
conducted interdisciplinary research on such topics as water
resource, soil and groundwater remediation, carbon dioxide
storage, permafrost science, and nuclear waste disposal.
The subsurface plays a critical role in our society. It
provides much of our energy, as well as critical minerals
needed for many parts of our economy. Groundwater is an
important source of water for drinking and for industrial and
agricultural use. The subsurface also provides spaces for
isolated storage of nuclear waste, carbon dioxide, and others.
My research has been focused on developing and applying
statistical methods and artificial intelligence (AI) to improve
the characterization, monitoring, and prediction of dynamic
subsurface processes.
The DOE Office of Science has a long history of supporting
the development of subsurface modeling and simulation
capabilities, taking advantage of the latest generation of
high-performance computers and software libraries, which were
developed through the Advanced Scientific Computing Research
program. As a result, today, scientists can simulate thermal,
hydrological, mechanical, chemical, and biological processes
and their interactions within a detailed model of the
subsurface.
DOE's user facilities and observational sites are also
essential resources for subsurface research. The user
facilities have been used to discover vast and novel microbial
communities in the subsurface and to visualize flow processes
and chemical reactions in rock pore structures. The
observational sites have enabled us to rapidly develop and test
subsurface sensors and imaging technologies. Scientists can now
map rock properties several hundred meters deep over an entire
watershed and rapidly detect subsurface anomalies.
The capabilities developed by DOE's basic research programs
in subsurface science are proving their value across the
agency. The Office of Environmental Management (EM) is using
the sensor and simulation tools developed by the Office of
Science to improve long-term groundwater monitoring at DOE's
legacy sites, ensuring the stability of remediation systems
while lowering their costs. Long-term subsurface simulation
capabilities also support the spent nuclear fuel disposal
program under the Office of Nuclear Energy, which requires
waste isolation for longer than 10,000 years.
The Office of Science is increasing its investment in the
use of artificial intelligence in subsurface research. This
rapidly evolving field has already made it possible to find
patterns in very large datasets and has accelerated
simulations. In 2021, I co-organized the Artificial
Intelligence for Earth Systems Predictability Workshop, which
explored how AI should be incorporated across the Earth systems
modeling program. I believe that DOE can make a unique
contribution in this topic, having great strengths in both
computing and observation capabilities.
Another promising new area of research is the use of local
subsurface sensors to improve environmental monitoring in
regions where mining waste disposal or storage or other
commercial subsurface activities are underway or under
consideration. These are often in rural places that are far
from scientific centers. STEM (science, technology,
engineering, and mathematics) education and community science
programs could be built around these datasets from sensor
networks, empowering local communities to monitor and protect
their own environment.
In summary, DOE programs support work at the national labs
and in academia and play an essential role in advanced
subsurface science and technologies for various applications.
They are improving our ability to take advantage of subsurface
resources and to minimize and remediate any environmental
impacts.
Thank you again. I welcome any questions you may have.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Wainwright follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Dr. Murakami Wainwright.
And finally, we have Dr.--I'm sorry, Ms. Allyson Book, who
is recognized for five minutes for her testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MS. ALLYSON BOOK,
CHIEF SUSTAINABILITY OFFICER, BAKER HUGHES
Ms. Book. Thank you to each of the Members of the Committee
for the opportunity to address you all today and for your
efforts to highlight the importance of subsurface sciences. My
name is Allyson Anderson Book, and I'm the Chief Sustainability
Officer for Baker Hughes. I'm also a trained geoscientist. I
oversee our corporate sustainability program and drive the
company's energy transition. My team supports our growth areas
that include carbon capture and storage, hydrogen, and
geothermal. Through focused research, development, and
demonstration activities, we work to identify public
partnerships, consortia, and other opportunities for enabling
the scale up of our technology and services.
Subsurface science and technology is used today to
characterize subsurface for energy production and natural
resource extraction to determine the best sites for waste
disposals--many people here have said--and numerous other
applications. federally funded R&D programs have supported real
innovation in each of these areas and remain essential today.
We see three key areas where we need subsurface R&D--and it
remains critical--that is CCS hydrogen storage and, not
surprising, geothermal, as we've heard on the Committee today.
CCS is a critical energy of research as it's essential for
reducing emissions within the energy, steel, cement, and
petrochem sectors. We're active throughout the entire CCS value
chain from project design to post-combustion capture,
compressions, subsurface storage, and long-term integrity and
monitoring of a reservoir.
Hydrogen storage is an emerging area of focus thanks to new
funding from hydrogen hubs and the section 45V tax credit.
Important work remains to understand how to safely control and
monitor geologic hydrogen storage, as well as robust and
reliable sensors are needed for the subsurface monitoring.
Additional geothermal R&D is needed to further develop the
enhanced and advanced geothermal systems, as well as production
of geothermal energy from oil and gas wells. Last year, we
helped to launch the Wells2Watts consortium to repurpose oil
and gas wells at the end of their productive life for
geothermal energy. We're using test wells at our Energy
Innovation Center co-located at the Hamm Institute for American
Energy in Oklahoma City. This is where we simulate high-
temperature subsurface environments for testing closed-loop
systems for many different kinds of well configurations. We
validate engineering performance models and provide scale for
field pilot efforts.
The Department of Energy and its various programs provide
an essential function for facilitating American technology
development, and we have long history of collaboration
together. Our key R&D areas have included enhanced geothermal
tech, novel additive manufacturing approaches, and gas and flow
sensors and monitoring technologies. We're also involved with
the CarbonSAFE program projects at the Office of Fossil Energy,
and that collaboration is instrumental to our long-term CCS
strategy, particularly in the subsurface.
I'd like to underscore three challenges for your
consideration here today as you look to buildupon American
leadership in the space. First is the need to sustain if not
expand support for each of these programs. A stable private--
or, excuse me, a stable Federal program produces stronger
broad-based partnerships with the private sector and
accelerates innovative scientific progress that would be
difficult to achieve in isolation. Additional funding is most
needed related to high-temperature downhole sensors and
drilling technology for geothermal wells. Funding for
geothermal at similar magnitude, as enjoyed by the CCS program
under CarbonSAFE, as well as DOE's hydrogen hubs, would enable
the industry to bring crucial new technologies to scale.
Second, I respectfully ask you to consider whether policies
around intellectual property (IP) should be adjusted to reflect
the difference between early stage R&D and later commercial
demonstration projects. Current policies establish government
rights to subject inventions that occur pursuant to grants. And
this reasonable when the government directly funds the R&D
leading to the subject invention. The intention of
demonstration projects, however, is not to develop new
inventions, but rather to scale up existing technology, so it's
a different purpose. These technologies may include prototypes
that are modified during the course of construction and testing
but were developed entirely by the private sector. Negotiating
to overcome a department's rights in this context can create
challenges for equipment manufacturers who would otherwise own
the IP.
So my last point, as the clock winds down, we understand
this lies--this last point--beyond the Committee's
jurisdiction, but I wanted to raise section 174 of the tax
code, which, since 1954, has allowed companies to deduct their
R&D expenses in the same year in which they were incurred as an
incentive to encourage investment in domestic R&D. As of
January 2022, companies must now amortize these expenses over
at least five years or more if it's international, making it
more expensive to invest in R&D in tighter market conditions
like the ones that we see today. So we urge you to pass
legislation to reinstate the immediate deductibility of R&D
expenses.
Thanks again for the opportunity to present this testimony
and share our views here today. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Book follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Ms. Book. And I would just add I
appreciate you mentioning the Hamm Institute for American
Energy, which is located in Congressional District 5, mine, so
thank you for that.
At this time, I thank all the witnesses for their
testimony, and I recognize myself now for five minutes for
questions.
Both the University of Oklahoma and Oklahoma State
University have been heavily engaged in research, partnering
with the Department of Energy to better model potential
geothermal sites, assess how the utilization of abandoned oil
and gas wells can lower costs for geothermal energy producers,
as well as improving fluid hydraulics and enhanced geothermal
systems. These types of research have had the potential to make
Oklahoma a global leader in geothermal production, while
exporting these technologies around the globe.
Dr. Hakala, if I could start with you, how does the DOE's--
how does the DOE plan on further supporting academic
partnerships in these areas?
Dr. Hakala. Well, the Department of Energy has a huge focus
with the Subsurface Energy Innovations crosscut, and so part of
that is making sure we can leverage knowledge and understanding
across all of the different offices within the Department of
Energy. That also involves working with the National
Laboratories and academic partnerships as part of that effort.
Part of the Energy Earthshot Initiative includes government-
academic partnership opportunities moving forward, so there--
the expectation is that there will be opportunities in the
future to look at that.
Mrs. Bice. Dr. Rosso, do you have any sort of comment on
that as well, those partnerships?
Dr. Rosso. I'd have to say that on the topic of the project
in Oklahoma that was referenced I can't speak to, but the
partnerships are incredibly important, particularly between
national labs and universities. And the initiative that Dr.
Hakala mentioned is--you know, it's got its roots, I believe,
in the SubTER initiative of DOE and is continuing on in this
new life, this revived form today. And it's great. It's exactly
what we need, maybe more writ large, I would say, but it's--
yes, it's a very good topic.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you.
Mr. Serrurier, you have highlighted the potential for
enhanced geothermal systems moving forward and the great
breakthrough that your company has recently made. How have
partnerships with academic institutions made these types of
innovations possible?
Mr. Serrurier. Thank you. It's a great question. And it's--
our company is made possible because of partnerships between
industry, national labs, DOE, and academia. Our co-founders met
in different programs at Stanford University, and so it really
was born out of an academic institution. And so when we look to
do research that's applied, we're often partnering with a whole
bunch of technical schools. When we apply for funding from DOE
for grants, a lot of that is joint between, you know, School of
Mines. University of Oklahoma obviously has huge opportunities
here. Oklahoma State has the Center for Excellence. So there's
a lot of different schools, UT (University of Texas) Austin,
the list goes on, but it's that they bring a lot of experience
and knowledge. We bring a whole bunch of sort of
entrepreneurial perspective on what's going to be commercially
important. And that combination pushes science forward that
then allows it to be applied and grow in the marketplace as
well.
Mrs. Bice. Do you think that in some ways we have to be
careful about sort of fragmenting all of this research across
so many institutions that it kind of--it may have sort of a
negative impact in that it's--it--the focus is lost in some
ways?
Mr. Serrurier. I can understand the concern, but I would
say coming from the--the geothermal industry, frankly, has been
historically fairly small and funded at a fairly low level, and
being spread thin is potentially a concern, but more is always
better. And so when we can bring more, you know, different
genetic diversity, so to speak, in an intellectual sense to the
problem, it can only lead to good things across--especially
across the many cross-sectoral applications that we can see for
geothermal. So I'd say it's a ``yes, and'' situation with R&D
and deployment in geothermal right now.
Mrs. Bice. Perfect, thank you for that.
Another research effort at Oklahoma State, funding was
awarded for the university to work with both the Oak Ridge
National Labs (ORNL) and in the Pacific Northwest National Lab
to expand the deployment of geothermal heating and cooling
tech. Dr. Rosso, you sort of alluded to this briefly, but the--
you know, the role of academics, I think, specifically for your
NTCs has a significant role. Would you agree with that?
Dr. Rosso. Nominally, I would, but to be honest, I'd be
guessing. My side of the house at PNNL is very fundamental
basic research. There's an applied research section that I
believe has the connection that you're talking about with
Oklahoma. So just to be--you know, full disclosure, I can't
really elaborate on this particular topic. But just a general
yes of enthusiasm about the collaborations that have already
been, you know, the focus of your question really.
Mrs. Bice. Perfect.
Dr. Rosso. Yes.
Mrs. Bice. I appreciate that.
And at this time, I will yield my time and now recognize
the Ranking Member, Mr. Bowman, for questions for five minutes.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you so much, Madam Chair.
My first question goes to Mr. Serrurier. Congratulations on
Fervo's recent breakthrough. In your testimony, you cited work
completed by DOE and the National Renewable Energy Laboratory
on the prevalence of geothermal resources in the United States.
There has been much success in the Western States with current
geothermal techniques and technologies, including your
company's recent groundbreaking success in Nevada. However,
there are numerous geological differences between the rock
formations under our feet in Washington, D.C., today, and those
under Western wells like your company's Project Red. What needs
to be done in terms of technological advancements to ensure
that eligible geothermal resources here in the Eastern portions
of the United States can be tapped?
Mr. Serrurier. Thank you for the question, Ranking Member
Bowman. This the exciting thing that we're super, you know,
excited about at Fervo, which is that with this advancement
that we've shown in northern Nevada, the ultimate goal is
geothermal everywhere. And what needs to happen is we need to
learn how to do it better because we know it works. But now we
need to do it cheaper, we need to do it faster, and we need to
do it at scale. And so the deployment of geothermal energy
technologies will bring the cost down, and that allows us to go
into new geologies and to do them cost-effectively. It's not
dissimilar from what--the growth pattern we saw in oil and gas,
which started at the low-hanging fruit. And then, as the
technology matured, we saw new resources. We brought those new
technologies to bear in new areas and discover new
opportunities for economic production. The same opportunity
exists in geothermal. And ultimately, our goal is to
commercialize where that low-hanging fruit exists. It's true,
the West does have an abundant shallow heat resource. But the
East Coast, you dig down, you find heat, right? And so now it's
about getting those drilling costs down, finding the technology
to optimize the subsurface reservoir that allows us to do it in
every possible geologic foundation.
Mr. Bowman. What should DOE be considering to speed up the
demonstration and deployment of these enhanced geothermal
systems?
Mr. Serrurier. It's a great question. There's a lot of
opportunities here. So one thing that we're particularly
excited about is the funding that can be--that has been
appropriated that could be spent on actually funding
demonstration projects that are actually, you know, putting
drill bits in the ground and seeing how these projects work in
practice, but also thinking about ways that we can optimize
those types of formations. We brought up--FORGE was mentioned.
The FORGE project is a great project. We partner with them on a
lot of opportunities, and seeing how they are pushing the
boundaries on what these reservoirs look like, how they can be
operated in more flexible ways for electric generation or for a
whole bunch of multiple uses, applying that research in the
ground because we're at the stage where we're ready to deploy,
and we need to learn how to do that deployment faster.
Mr. Bowman. Got it. My next question is for Dr. Hakala. One
of the most energy-intensive actions a building can do is heat
its air and water tanks, and enhanced geothermal systems become
more commercially--as, excuse me, enhanced geothermal systems
become more commercially viable, there is great potential to
use these technologies to provide heat to large buildings and
individual households. Many communities in my district in
Westchester County in the Bronx in New York are looking at the
systems, as I mentioned in my opening statement. So how can
enhance geothermal systems be used to lower energy costs and
decarbonize the building sector?
Dr. Hakala. Thank you very much for your question.
Unfortunately, that's outside of my area of familiarity, so we
can get back to you with an answer on that. We do have
colleagues across NETL and FECM who have----
Mr. Bowman. Got it.
Dr. Hakala [continuing]. Information on that topic.
Mr. Bowman. Can I go to Ms. Book, then, next? Thank you.
Ms. Book. Sure. I was ready for this.
Mr. Bowman. All right.
Ms. Book. So actually, you know, I don't want to get the
stat wrong, but we--in the United States, residential and
commercial sector accounts for about 17 percent of U.S.
greenhouse gas emissions. OK. I focus on that since I work in
the energy transition. And building heating is a really big
share of that, right? So the focus on that is appropriate, and
a lot more can be done.
To answer your question, one thing that we've done at Baker
Hughes is we have partnered with a company called ExerGo, and
this a company--it's a clean tech startup, so it's a little bit
earlier. It's--I would make a comparison that where Fervo is
gone and it's going big, ExerGo is looking at this with
CO2 as the heat recovery fluid, OK? And so this
means you're able to use excess CO2 and so get an
emissions reduction at the same time that you can have a low
temperature fluid loop for geothermal, which is really exciting
and very cutting edge. And so this an area we'll want to see a
little bit more investment in so that--so we can see that
investment take off. But that's a really great application
where you get emissions reduction and some really excellent
sustainable heating and cooling.
Mr. Bowman. Thank you. I yield back.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Ranking Member.
And it is my great pleasure to recognize the Chairman of
the Full Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, my
colleague from Oklahoma, Mr. Lucas, for five minutes.
Chairman Lucas. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Book, in your testimony, you highlight how Baker
Hughes, alongside industry and academic partners like Oklahoma
State University, is using technology originally developed for
the oil and gas industry for emerging technologies in
geothermal and carbon capture and storage. Can you go into more
detail on how the investments made by the oil and gas industry
are vital to the development of other subsurface energy
technologies?
Ms. Book. Yes, so a lot has been done in the subsurface and
sort of the tech and the service side. And so just as we've
heard from the gentleman from Fervo, a lot of that technology
piece is well-baked in the oil and gas side, OK? And a lot of
it directly transfers. So a lot of what we're doing on--in
geothermal today is directly--same kind of equipment that you
might use. Now, the frontier space needs technology that can go
hotter and hotter, OK, as well as--lower temperature is little
easier. That's a direct translation. I'd also say it's the same
as you start to look at CCS in terms of the storage side for
CO2. And a lot of the drilling techniques, same
idea, controlling the wells the same. And so it's--what's great
about this is a direct translation of both the tools and the
skills that people have into this different frontier.
Chairman Lucas. Do you think we would have seen the rapid
development in these technologies without the contributions
made by industry?
Ms. Book. I don't. I mean, a lot of the innovation comes
from there, but also in this public-private partnership, right?
And so you've seen companies like ours in partnership with the
U.S. Government and the labs working over time--like I think it
was Sandia who came up with the first PDC bit many years ago,
in partnership with the private sector, OK, because they have
the application space where they're really advancing that.
Chairman Lucas. Mr. Serrurier, in your testimony, you
describe the partnership between Fervo and DOE's Frontier
Observatory for Research in Geothermal Energy and the role it
played in the advancement of enhanced geothermal technologies.
Within this partnership, what were the benefits to Fervo?
Mr. Serrurier. Thank you, Mr. Lucas. It's a great question.
FORGE has been a great partner of ours, and the benefits that
we saw--first of all, we had a great view into the rock because
of their experience drilling in southwest Utah, but also to
have a community of researchers who are dealing with the same
challenges of taking oil and gas technology and applying it in
a new geologic formation. There were a lot of unknowns, and to
have the FORGE success story--and they also have had some
recent breakthroughs in their own project. To have their
experience translate into our ability to raise capital, our
ability to apply that capital to a new development, and to
start pushing the boundaries on, you know, taking--they can
take some risks with their project, which, frankly, is harder
to do when you have the private backing that we do.
Chairman Lucas. And by the same token, in all fairness,
what do--what would you describe as the benefits of this to
DOE?
Mr. Serrurier. The benefits to DOE is helping the American
grid decarbonize, create a ton of new jobs, and pioneer a whole
application of subsurface development and technology that
wouldn't be feasible without these sorts of partnerships.
Chairman Lucas. One last question, what specific
recommendations, if any, do you have for FORGE moving forward?
Mr. Serrurier. My recommendations for FORGE is to stay
close to their phone because we love to call them. But also,
it's to look at the--you know, when you think about where this
industry is going and the application of EGS, to think about--
we're applying these at large scale. FORGE has a couple great
wells. We're looking to do a 400 megawatt project nearby, and
to think about the application challenges that the private
industry will be facing as we scale up from an industry that is
nascent but, as I mentioned, on the cusp of very rapid growth.
And so there's scaling challenges. There's application
challenges. There's a new world of scientific inquiry, and I
look forward to working with them to help solve some of those
challenges.
Chairman Lucas. Thank you very much.
And with that, I yield back, Madam Chair.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
At this time, I recognize Ms. Lee for questions for five
minutes.
Ms. Lee. Thank you, Madam Chair and Ranking Member Bowman,
and to our panel of witnesses today for your time and your
testimony.
Western Pennsylvania, where I represent, has been home to
mining operations for over 200 years. And of course, that's not
been without consequence. Black lung, an incurable respiratory
disease, has become more prevalent and is impacting younger
workers earlier across the postindustrial Appalachian
communities. While I'm a strong advocate and supporter for a
clean energy future that does not rely on fossil energy, I'm
also obligated as a representative of my people to ensure that
every individual is carried along as part of our energy
transition.
Every Member of this Committee represents families who are
concerned or affected by the changes they see and feel in their
environment. It's vital that we continue to push for new
technologies and strategies, not just for energy security, but
for better welfare and living standards for our constituents.
The continued extraction of energy resources from the Earth
creates numerous spheres within the communities that I
represent. Millions of structures in the Commonwealth of
Pennsylvania stand on top of old and abandoned underground
mines. In fact, my constituents are often advised to purchase
subsidence insurance in case their homes ever cave in. There
are an estimated 230,000 homes in my district at risk of
sinking into the ground from mine subsidence. Powering our
homes and industry should not and must not mean that parents go
to sleep worrying that their home may literally be swallowed by
the ground.
So this why I'm proud that Rep. Bice and I have been able
to work together to introduce the Abandoned Well Remediation
Research and Development Act, which will further support
research and development into the subsurface environment and
help reduce methane emissions from abandoned mines across the
country.
So not to sound like a radio hit on repeat, but some of the
worst air quality in the country is found in my district. It
means a lot to me that I sit in this seat to affect change to
my community and communities I represent. Legislation like this
is one step in the right direction toward cleaner air in PA.
I'm also intrigued by the opportunities that advanced
computing and complex modeling will create in mapping abandoned
mines and wells to better plan and protect our communities from
harmful emissions and geological abnormalities. It's important
to me that research and development into how we interact with
subsurface energy sources caters to the safety and well-being
of our fellow human beings on the surface, along with
remembering that we share this planet with all the flora and
fauna, and we are obligated to protect such as well.
With that said, Ms. Book, how are researchers at
organizations like your own utilizing their research to create
technologies and devices that protects our family--or, excuse
me, our frontline workers from occupational diseases like black
lung?
Ms. Book. Well, typically, that's not associated with our
part of the energy sector, right, and so--but we're--we have a
really big focus on safety. And so I actually sit on top of all
of the statistics for our company's performance in that area,
and in terms of the people, planet, and principles, it's a part
of our sustainability reporting and accountability to the
communities we operate in. And so we take that very serious. In
fact, we measure perfect health safety days to ensure that our
frontline workers are protected. And so I can assure you and
point you to the things that we do in more detail offline
because there's quite a bit that that we do----
Ms. Lee. Thank you.
Ms. Book [continuing]. And we partner with communities.
Ms. Lee. Certainly, I appreciate that.
Similarly, many communities in my district struggle with
domestic wastewater treatment due to the leaching of metals
from abandoned mines into watersheds. If anyone knows, how is
research and development helping create cost-effective
solutions for municipalities, such as improved detection or
prevention of contaminants from abandoned subsurface
infrastructure? I'll give that to you, but if others have
input.
Ms. Book. I don't have an answer, so----
Ms. Lee. Yes. Dr. Hakala?
Dr. Hakala. Thank you so much, Representative Lee, and
thank you for representing Allegheny County. That's where--I'm
up at the Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, NETL site. So I can say
that some of the research that's being performed at NETL and
across the Department of Energy has focused on taking what they
call unconventional feedstocks, and so that would be something
similar to some of these wastewaters from abandoned mines and
figuring out how to clean them up and then also how do we
extract valuable minerals from those resources? And so that
type of work expands from the basic R&D stage all the way out
to some technology deployments that are being tested in some
other regions but that would be applicable to our region, as
appropriate.
Ms. Lee. Yes, thank you, Dr. Hakala. And really quickly,
one more. You know how DOE R&D is working to incorporate public
feedback and community engagement to adequately address air
quality and public health concerns in our communities?
Dr. Hakala. Well, DOE is--as part of all of these larger
projects that are funded to look at carbon storage and direct
air capture and things, as part of those external opportunity
announcements, there is an opportunity--or there is a request
for the teams responding to those to include a community
engagement plan. And so that can include outreach, education,
and any type of involvement with the community as appropriate.
Ms. Lee. Thank you so much. I yield back.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you, Ms. Lee.
And at this time, I recognize the gentleman from New
Jersey, Mr. Kean, for five minutes.
Mr. Kean. Thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to our
witnesses for being here today.
Dr. Wainwright, MIT collaborates with Savannah River
National Laboratory on the Advanced Long-Term Environmental
Monitoring (ALTEMIS) project. How has this partnership informed
future remediation of contaminated groundwater? What other
insights has come from this project?
Dr. Wainwright. Yes, so one of the biggest challenges for
DOE is the long-term stewardship of these sites. And there are
so many technologies available, including new sensors, AI,
artificial intelligence, for example, but it has not--they have
not been integrated into the DOE's remediation program. So in
the ALTEMIS project, we are trying to integrate these
technologies to improve the long-term monitoring, such as, for
example, rapid anomaly detection at the site, ensuring the
stability of the system, and also really sort of providing the
communities with the assurance that the sites are safe. That's
the ultimate goal.
Mr. Kean. OK. In what ways does the collaboration further
development of the next-generation workforce?
Dr. Wainwright. Yes, in our project there are many students
from different universities, more than five universities. Many
of them are from minority-serving institutions. For example, we
are teaching them how to do machine learning, AI, and
groundwater flow simulation. I believe that we are developing
the next generation workforce for EM and beyond; for general
environmental industries.
Mr. Kean. And then I've got a broader question to any
member on the panel that thinks it's appropriate to answer.
When considering the importance of having multiple energy
sources to help the United States move toward energy
independence, what potential regulatory barriers or other
barriers are there that might hinder the growth of enhanced
geothermal energy production and utilization?
Mr. Serrurier. I'll be happy to take that first. Thank you,
Mr. Kean. One area is public lands management, honestly. There
is--90 percent or so of America's geothermal resource as
currently recognized sits on federally owned land. And so the
permitting process, the lease sales, and the in-house expertise
at the various permitting agencies is a critical component of
our ability to expand the technology as fast as the market is
demanding it.
Dr. Rosso. I'll jump in on that one. Yes. I'm all for the
enthusiasm and learning-by-doing approach to things like
enhanced geothermal, and we have some very good success stories
that have been featured even in this discussion. But if I bring
it back to the question about safety and the need to kind of
drive carefully through this, you know, there's cautionary
tales here. The fundamental R&D that is needed to sort of
ensure safety, to ensure that we know what we're doing as we
establish these pilot plants, is ultimately very critical to
actually keeping the whole industry from actually undermining
itself with accidents such as induced seismicity or, you know,
creating a reputation of not-in-my-backyard would ultimately be
something that would be an inertial drag on the entire
enterprise.
So the point I'm trying to make is that there's a
complementation to all of this with fundamental R&D on the
subsurface complexity that I refer to in my testimony. There's
things that we still don't know. When you're drilling into
deep, hard rock or trying to do things that are really
challenging, like enhanced geothermal, you don't know how
stressed those rocks are that you're drilling into. You really
don't know at the very beginning what's going to happen.
And so the research that is needed really at the
fundamental level is things like new sensing technologies,
things that are being developed like to try and understand
reactive transport of fluids through stressed rock and
fractures. These are really fundamental, challenging questions
that require an incredible collaborative team of
multidisciplinary folks to wrap their heads around these
problems and help produce predictive tools, so I just want to
make sure that's clear.
Mr. Kean. That's very helpful.
Anybody else on the panel?
Dr. Hakala. I'd just like to highlight that a lot of the
lessons learned from other industries is--can also be very
important, and also extending it to figuring out how--you know
what are areas that we already know about versus what are areas
that require some more of this focused investigation.
Mr. Kean. That's great. Thank you, and I yield back.
Mrs. Bice. Thank you.
And at this time, I'd like to recognize the gentlelady from
North Carolina, Ms. Ross, for five minutes for questions.
Ms. Ross. Thank you very much. And thank you to the Chair
and the Ranking Member for holding this hearing, and thank you
to all the panelists for joining us today.
One of the most important societal issues we face today is
a shift to a carbon-free renewable energy distribution system
and really harnessing what we've got in nature to do just that.
And this is essential to limiting climate change. And
obviously, subsurface resources provide a patchwork of
solutions for this energy transition, including enormous
amounts of pore space to permanently absorb carbon dioxide and
renewable energy from geothermal sources.
Last summer, I had the great pleasure and privilege of
going with a bipartisan delegation to Iceland to see how they
use geothermal energy and to see some innovative carbon capture
technology, some of which was being done between Iceland and
the United States. I'd like to know--because nobody's talked
about Iceland here. I mean, obviously, we don't have, you know,
volcanoes like they do. But how much of what you do is based on
the amazing success that they've had in Iceland? And I think
we'll--we should start with Dr. Hakala and move on from there.
Dr. Hakala. Great, thank you very much for this excellent
question. And what this points toward for me is I'm trying to
understand how can we both recover geothermal energy and also
trap CO2 in a mineralized form? And so the U.S.
Department of Energy is looking at mineralization R&D across a
variety of scenarios, both looking at above-ground and in situ
or within the geologic reservoir, and how do we trap the
CO2 as an immobile phase? And so there is still some
fundamental R&D required in that space, especially depending on
the formation and depending on specific flow pathways and
properties. However, being able to understand what's happening
in currently deployed field settings where things are--where
CO2 is being injected and then coupling that with
the fundamental R&D--is critical to figuring that out.
Ms. Ross. Does anybody have anything to add?
Mr. Serrurier. Yes, I would just like to add quickly, thank
you for the question. And direct air capture is something that
we're very interested in at Fervo, and Climeworks, one of the
direct air capture firms I believe it is in Iceland that pairs
with geothermal, it works really well because you have the need
for high heat for direct air capture, as well as the need for
low-cost, steady, clean electricity. We produce both of those
things. And so we're looking at what those partnerships could
look like if we integrate an EGS system with a direct air
capture system. And a lot of that's modeled off stuff that's
being pioneered right now in Iceland, so it's great to have
that working model for us.
Ms. Ross. Great. And--oh, did you--Dr. Rosso, did you----
Dr. Rosso. That's OK. I was just quickly going to add,
there's exciting things going on similar to what's going on in
Iceland, but in the Salton Sea in California where basically
you've got geothermal so you've got the heat at the surface,
but you can also extract metals. You can extract lithium. Lots
of other important critical elements are coming out. It's just
fantastic advances in R&D going on at sites like that. So in
certain ways, I'd say we're trying to keep up with what's going
on internationally.
Ms. Ross. Great. And the--my next question is really about
our energy grid for energy distribution. And so we've seen that
with solar and wind, we're going to have to make some upgrades
to our grid to deal with either--particularly with offshore
wind, an entirely new way of getting that energy to shore, into
our homes, into our businesses. And then we've seen this
unbelievable queue in solar where we haven't been able to tap
into this amazing resource that we have because we simply don't
have the distribution system. What do we need to do to our
energy grid to be able to get geothermal energy on it in an
efficient way and not have the grid be the thing that stands in
the way?
Mr. Serrurier. Thank you. It's a huge question. And I think
transmission is going to be a huge piece of that. We're
developing projects in places--we have some flexibility in
siting, but geothermal to date has been a relatively small
share of our energy grid, and so there isn't necessarily the
same amount of installed transmission capacity to the areas
where we see the most exciting development opportunities.
But, in addition to that, I'll note that geothermal,
because it is a 24/7, clean, firm resource enables the
development of a whole slew of variable renewable resources, so
you have that really cheap solar and wind power coming online,
but you're also adding flexible baseload power in geothermal
that can play a critical role in keeping the lights on and
keeping everything affordable. So the portfolio, but the
transmission access is going to be important.
Ms. Ross. OK. With 4 seconds to go, does DOE have anything
to add to that?
Dr. Hakala. Yes, we have--I have many colleagues who are
looking at this question across the Department of Energy. I can
get some additional information from them. Unfortunately, it's
not my area of expertise.
Ms. Ross. OK. Thank you, and I yield back.
Mr. Kean [presiding]. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes
Mr. Baird from Indiana for five minutes.
Mr. Baird. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member. And I
always appreciate you witnesses taking the time to share your
expertise with this Committee.
You know, ag is my--kind of my background, and earlier this
week, I introduced H.R. 4824, the Carbon Sequestration
Calibration Act--there's a name for you--but anyway, a bill
that authorizes the Department of Energy to carry out
terrestrial carbon sequestration research and development,
which we've referred to here, in collaboration with key Federal
agencies like the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the
Department of Interior.
So, Dr. Rosso, in your opinion and based on your decades of
experience working in DOE Office of Science lab, what role does
basic research in biology or environmental systems science play
in DOE's other subsurface science activities specifically
related to carbon sequestration?
Dr. Rosso. Thank you, Chairman Baird. It's an excellent
question. I'll try and respond on two fronts. One is
terrestrial carbon sequestration. There, you're basically
trying to enhance the amount of carbon that soils can take up.
And one concept there that should be evaluated is how can we
take advantage of biology and the entire ecosystem of soils
basically to drive carbon deeper into the--just basically for
longer-term storage. And that's something that I think the
Office of BER, I believe, Biological and Environmental Research
has an interest in.
On the flip side, back to the other point, carbon
sequestration below ground, deep below ground, in other words,
taking CO2 and injecting it safely below ground,
this an important area that can't be overlooked. It's been
mentioned by Dr. Hakala, and this something that still needs a
lot of research. We need to understand how we can safely keep
it underground. And one of the things we do at PNNL very well
because we're sitting out there on a mile of basalt is to try
and take advantage of the fact that there's reactive minerals
in basalt that will react with CO2 and convert it
into stable solid phases. And so this an area that we should
really continue to keep on the forefront because, you know, a
large part of the country has got a lot of storage capacity for
permanent sequestration of CO2.
Mr. Baird. You know, you mentioned one thing that I think's
important in this--because of agriculture and what they've done
over the years in conservation, you know, the carbon adds
another activity to the soil and improves soil health. And so
the more that we could capture in the soil, the better off we
would be.
But, Dr. Hakala, can you--I want to go to you next if you'd
like to comment about this.
Dr. Hakala. Sure. I--thank you very much. And I agree with
Dr. Rosso's response. There is some fundamental research that
does happen across the DOE labs, and what's really important
also is the--leveraging the knowledge that we gain in different
program areas and applying it toward a specific application.
And so with this question of what do we need to understand
about enabling terrestrial sequestration, well, is there--are
there fundamental advances in geomicrobiology that we can
leverage to further enhance carbon sequestration in the soils
and in other types of reservoirs like the deep subsurface?
Mr. Baird. Would any of the other witnesses--yes.
Dr. Wainwright. So I have worked in many projects under
BER, the Office of Science Biological and Environmental
Research (BER) program. BER supports research, for example,
developing mathematical models computational tools, to simulate
and predict the carbon cycling in terrestrial systems. Those
capabilities can be directly applied to carbon sequestration in
soil. Also, they support research to map soil heterogeneity
over a large area, and they also support carbon cycling
experiments. Those types of research in BER can be directly
applied to agriculture setting for carbon sequestration in
soil.
Mr. Baird. Thank you. Anyone else care to--yes.
Ms. Book. Yes, I'd like to put on a hat from a former life.
The--as the token geoscientist sitting here, I'd be remiss if I
didn't mention that the USGS (United States Geological Survey)
and the U.S. Biological Survey are a powerhouse in this area as
well, OK? And so let's just remember as you work on--and I
haven't looked at your bill yet, but now I'm going to, OK,
because they have a lot to offer, and they've done great work
in the last decade on assessing the capabilities and where we
can have some of the strongest terrestrial sequestration across
the United States.
Mr. Baird. I thank all of you. And with that, I'm out of
time and yield back.
Mr. Kean. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mr. Sorsen, Sorensen from Illinois for five
minutes.
Mr. Sorensen. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member
Bowman, for convening this hearing and our witnesses for
appearing before us.
In Illinois, 54 percent of the energy that we use to power
our State is nuclear-generated electricity. Illinois is the
leader in nuclear energy production. This a clean and reliable
source of energy that has worked so well for my State. However,
nuclear power does create waste. And currently, we do not have
a central location for the country's nuclear waste to be stored
and disposed of. The solution we have gone with is simply
storing the waste at temporary storage sites at or near the
generating reactor. This not a long-term solution and generates
environmental contamination concerns. Sites where nuclear waste
is stored must be monitored very carefully, activities which
rely heavily on the expertise derived from subsurface research
and technology development.
One of Illinois' nuclear reactors is just outside the Quad
Cities, a community that I represent. Drs. Wainwright and
Rosso, are there new developments in subsurface science that we
can better protect our communities that live near these
facilities?
Dr. Wainwright. I go first. So I teach nuclear waste
management at MIT. I was hired last year to teach this subject.
And nuclear waste, I would say, is one of the best-managed
wastes in human history. It's protected by a highly engineered
barrier system. And also, there are many regulations to protect
the environment.
I would say there can be many technologies transferred from
the EM domain in a sense that EM--DOE Office of Environmental
Management have so much experience moving defense-related waste
and monitoring these wastes. I manage a project developing
monitoring technologies. There are so many new sensor
technologies and artificial intelligence, for example, to do
anomaly detection. So these technologies, and new technologies,
monitoring particularly, can be transferred to secure nuclear
waste at commercial facilities as well.
Dr. Rosso. Yes, it's a great question, Congressman
Sorensen. PNNL is parked right next to the Hanford Site. And
we--you know, we deal with a lot of contamination just upstream
from us on the Columbia River. It's an area that EM has taken
over in terms of--let me back up. They actually are responsible
for cleanup of that site with its thousand or so plumes of
contamination slowly making its way down. But the R&D effort is
largely there as well. And it used to be something that was a
focal area of the Office of Science, but it's--to be honest,
it's actually waning a little bit. And it's hard to explain
why. It's above my paygrade why exactly--and maybe it's
political, largely. But the point is that there's a lot of
left-off questions that haven't been addressed in terms of
trying to understand how radionuclides move through this--
through soils and subsurface environments. And EM is in a mode
where--they fund research for cleanup. They fund the deep
vadose zone, for example, which is billions of dollars a year,
some of which PNNL, you know, leads for DOE. But the
fundamental R&D is just not there. It's not there where it used
to be. And it would be great to see that pick up again from the
Office of Science.
Mr. Sorensen. You'd mentioned that perhaps some of the
problem here is political. Could you explain that?
Dr. Rosso. I cannot. It was just pure speculation. And I'd
love to back that off if I could, but I can't.
Mr. Sorensen. Thank you, sir. I've only got a minute left.
As a nation, we're investing in carbon capture technology, but
there's questions based on safety and sustainability. Dr.
Hakala and Ms. Book, either one of you, do we know enough in
the geology to know that this is 100 percent safe?
Ms. Book. We can flip for it. OK. I'll go first, and then
you can go. So just being fast on my feet, I would feel safe
with this like in my backyard if the system's designed
correctly, OK?
Mr. Sorensen. Great.
Ms. Book. And I say that because there's been longstanding
use of CO2 in the subsurface many, many decades, 40
years plus, OK? And so knowing from that you can't really cite
fatalities from it. There's not a body of real big safety
concerns that come off of that because the storage of that--its
use in oilfield recovery and through pipelines has been very
heavily regulated, as well as, from the safety paradigm, very
tightly controlled, OK? And DOT PHMSA (Pipeline and Hazardous
Materials Safety Administration) provides a really good
oversight mechanism for CO2 and pipeline. And so I
think in terms of the subsurface, the decades of safety
experience there is well in hand and I think very under
control.
Mr. Sorensen. Dr. Hakala? Or I know I'm running short on
time. Do we know enough--are we monitoring below the surface
enough?
Dr. Hakala. Well, we have a few major things in our--to our
advantage to ensure the safety. We have the regional
partnerships, the regional initiatives, the CarbonSAFE efforts,
the pending efforts. We have the National Risk Assessment
Partnership, and we also have the SMART effort. And so when you
think about some of the fundamental to applied work that's
happening through NRAP and SMART, NRAP is looking at how can we
quantify the risk of a site so that you can make good decisions
about what type of site you want to develop? And so that's
built off of years of the labs working together, the years from
the oil and gas industry experience, and pulling in new
knowledge from sites that are under--the demonstration sites.
With the real-time monitoring and application of
computational tools in AI, we're going to be able to understand
what's happening in real time so that things that may have been
a problem in the past won't be a problem because you can deal
with it faster. So I think we're in a really good position to
ensure the security and safety of these systems.
Mr. Sorensen. Thank you for that. Chairman, I yield.
Mr. Kean. Thank you. The gentleman yields back.
I now recognize Mrs. Foushee from North Carolina for five
minutes of questions.
Mrs. Foushee. Thank you, Mr. Chair and Ranking Member
Bowman, for convening this here. And welcome and thank you to
all of you for your testimonies today.
I am proud to represent North Carolina's 4th Congressional
District, home to Duke University in Durham, where, last year,
researchers and students drilled a 400-foot hole on campus to
study geothermal potential across the university's campus and
the region. So my first question is for Mr. Serrurier. Much has
been said about geothermal energy in the Western part of the
United States. What technological advancements need to be made
to tap into eligible geothermal resources here in the Eastern
part of the country?
Mr. Serrurier. Thank you, Congresswoman. And it's great to
hear about the progress at Duke. My brother-in-law attended,
and I'm sure he'll be happy to hear that.
I think there's a couple--there's a lot of different ways
that geothermal energy can be used in many different
applications. What we're doing at Fervo is digging about 8,000-
plus-feet deep into super what would I think normal people
consider super hot. It's considered less hot for geothermal
energy purposes. But that's a technology that we are ready to
deploy today in the West, and deploying it in the West will
bring down those costs so we can access deeper resources in
less understood geologies, the Eastern half of the country. So
it's something that can be applied from a technical perspective
across the country right now. As we get better drill bits, as
we get better sensing of the subsurface and more data about
where those thermal resources sit in different geologies,
particularly in the Eastern side of the country, then we'll be
able to access economically to develop power generation,
heating and cooling, industrial heat applications. The world is
our oyster at that point.
Mrs. Foushee. Thank you for that.
And, Dr. Rosso and Dr. Wainwright, you both discussed how
DOE has been proactive in supporting subsurface research and
development to fill critical gaps. What are the biggest
challenges that must be addressed to advance the field of
geoscience and its applications?
Dr. Rosso. I'd come back to sensing, subsurface sensing. We
need new tools that basically give us orthogonal information to
traditional sensing tools like seismic and distributed
temperature and acoustic. We need to be able to see the state
of stress in rocks before we drill into them so that--so we
don't create problems like slippage on a preexisting fault. So
it's--I would throw it at sensing, developing new technologies,
innovating really, not just incrementally advancing existing
technology, but coming up with entirely new ways to sense the
state of stress in the subsurface. This would be one frontier
that I would point out.
Mrs. Foushee. Dr. Wainwright?
Dr. Wainwright. I totally agree. I would say that long-term
predictability of subsurface is a grand challenge. One of our
biggest challenges is that subsurface is heterogeneous and we
cannot see unless we drill wells. So, yes, sensing technologies
and imaging technologies between wells, 3D visualization of
subsurface are rapidly developing. And also, coupled processes
like heat, water, chemistry interacting each other and those
processes are very difficult to model. This is another grand
challenge. And DOE has supercomputers, the world's first
supercomputer, for example. Those computational resources are
really powerful to simulate and predict these complex processes
in subsurface.
Mrs. Foushee. Would anyone else care to comment?
Ms. Book. I'd love to add from our perspective, and
probably Fervo, is that we'd like to see more and more focus on
pushing the heat frontier in terms of the tools. So you're
always limited. When you hit a certain temperature profile, the
tools will start to fail if it gets too hot. And so that's been
a barrier that's been very difficult to cross in the history of
geothermal and subsurface exploration. And so I would say that.
And then downhole sensors is an area that that we can always
work to advance more particularly on that heat frontier as it
gets hotter.
Did you want to add anything?
Mr. Serrurier. No, I would just add that we do have the
technologies to deploy today, and iterating and building on
those technologies in new conditions becomes even better for
the resource. So we are drilling at heats that are commercially
productive. We are seeing fiberoptic sensing work in those
conditions, the drill bits work in those conditions, but to
make this the fully realized resource that it can be, the
geothermal can be, will require going to higher--deeper depths,
higher heats. And obviously, doing that more economically with
better technology is going to make that more feasible.
Mrs. Foushee. Mr. Chairman, that's my time. I yield back.
Mr. Kean. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr.
Fleischmann from Tennessee for five minutes of questions.
Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and welcome to
this distinguished panel. It's always good to see you all. I'm
Chuck Fleischmann. I represent the people of the Third District
of Tennessee, more specifically, the great city of Oak Ridge,
located in Anderson and Roane Counties and that wonderful DOE
reservation. I appreciate you all participating today.
In my district, Oak Ridge National Laboratory is conducting
research and development on a variety of areas surrounding the
subsurface technologies. For example, DOE's Advanced Scientific
Computing Research program, known as ASCR, has seen a major
recent success with the deployment of Frontier at ORNL, the
world's fastest exascale computer. From rare-earth mineral
recovery and reuse efforts to developing advanced materials for
geothermal well construction and operating the country's
largest open-access battery manufacturing research and
development center, the national labs are a key player in our
country's energy future.
Dr. Rosso, can you explain how the national labs utilize
funding to fill gaps that private industry may not be able to
invest in during early technology development?
Dr. Rosso. Thank you for the question. Let me talk about
computing. Computing of the kind of--and scale that's available
at Oak Ridge such as the leadership plus exascale computers are
totally essential to what I've been referring to all along, and
that is developing new ways to actually detect and see below
the surface between boreholes. So it's--that aspect that you
mentioned is important.
With regard to your other question, which I've already
forgotten, I don't know if you'd be kind enough to repeat that
so that I can----
Mr. Fleischmann. Yes.
Dr. Rosso [continuing]. Direct it----
Mr. Fleischmann. How national labs utilize funding to fill
gaps that private industry may not be able to invest in during
early technology development.
Dr. Rosso. Well, it's all about establishing collaborations
between the experts that exist in national labs and
universities and--yes, and giving them real resources to
actually dedicate time and attention and the development of
students on these topics, right, for the next-generation
workforce. So that's essential.
Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you, sir.
Dr. Rosso. Thank you.
Mr. Fleischmann. Dr. Hakala, can you give us some examples
of how technologies initially started in a national lab have
evolved into commercially successful enterprises by private
industry?
Dr. Hakala. I think--thank you very much for that question.
And the one example that I'm most familiar with is where there
was a significant investment in understanding directional
drilling and hydraulic fracturing technologies. And that's--
some of that fundamental research that was performed years ago
has then--has now been applied and deployed in multiple
regions, you know, for unconventional oil and gas. And more
recently, it's being explored and applied in geothermal as well
to look at the technology leveraging across different
technology spaces.
Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. I know my time is waning, but,
Dr. Wainwright, how have high-performance computer--
supercomputers transformed your research in environmental
remediation and understanding the subsurface?
Dr. Wainwright. Yes, my team routinely use high-performance
computing for groundwater simulations. For example, we were
able to quantify the impact of extreme weather events on EM
sites. There are many concerns about how extreme rain events
would impact the waste disposal cells, for example. These
supercomputers are really helpful for us to model these impacts
and predict the future consequences if there are.
Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. I'm going to try to get this
question in, and I'll open it up for whomever wants to answer.
After the Bureau of Mines was dissolved in 1996, statutory
authority for mining R&D was transferred to the Department of
Energy. While there are mining technology-related research
efforts run through NETL and ARPA-E (Advanced Research Projects
Agency--Energy), there is no active Federal program focused on
R&D dedicated to hard rock mining and new mining technologies.
Can any of you comment on the importance of R&D in creating an
economically viable domestic mining industry? And what role do
you recommend the Federal Government play including the
national lab system, as we just discussed, in supporting
advanced mining technologies?
Dr. Hakala. Thank you very much for that question. I'm
happy to start the answer to that. Something that is happening
across the Department of Energy currently is the Critical
Minerals Collaborative, and so that is focused on leveraging
our past investments, leveraging all of the prior knowledge,
leveraging knowledge from the Critical Minerals Institute, and
then making sure there's a coordinated effort to develop the
supply chain.
Mr. Fleischmann. Thank you. Anybody else want to comment? I
know I'm past my time, Mr. Chair, but if anybody else would
like to briefly comment, I'm open. Yes?
Dr. Wainwright. In terms of the waste management side,
Office of Environmental Management and Office of Legacy
Management have been managing uranium mill tailing sites, for
example, building stable disposal cells. Those technologies and
experience could be transferred to general mining sites.
Mr. Fleischmann. Excellent. Thank you. And again, I thank
this distinguished panel. Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Mr. Kean. The gentleman yields back.
Seeing no other questions, I thank the witnesses for their
valuable testimony and the Members for their questions. The
record will remain open for 10 days for additional comments and
written questions from Members.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 3:53 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
Appendix
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Additional Material for the Record
Documents submitted by the Western Governors' Association
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