[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


  RURAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP: EXAMINING THE CHALLENGES AND STATE OF RURAL 
                            SMALL BUSINESSES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS
                             UNITED STATES
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                              HEARING HELD
                             JULY 26, 2023
                               __________

                  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
                               

            Small Business Committee Document Number 118-022
             Available via the GPO Website: www.govinfo.gov
             
                               __________

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
                    
52-686                    WASHINGTON : 2024                
             
             
             
                   HOUSE COMMITTEE ON SMALL BUSINESS

                    ROGER WILLIAMS, Texas, Chairman
                      BLAINE LUETKEMEYER, Missouri
                        PETE STAUBER, Minnesota
                        DAN MEUSER, Pennsylvania
                         BETH VAN DUYNE, Texas
                         MARIA SALAZAR, Florida
                          TRACEY MANN, Kansas
                           JAKE ELLZEY, Texas
                        MARC MOLINARO, New York
                         MARK ALFORD, Missouri
                           ELI CRANE, Arizona
                          AARON BEAN, Florida
                           WESLEY HUNT, Texas
                         NICK LALOTA, New York
               NYDIA VELAZQUEZ, New York, Ranking Member
                          JARED GOLDEN, Maine
                         KWEISI MFUME, Maryland
                        DEAN PHILLIPS, Minnesota
                          GREG LANDSMAN, Ohio
                       MORGAN MCGARVEY, Kentucky
                  MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ, Washington
                       HILLARY SCHOLTEN, Michigan
                        SHRI THANEDAR, Michigan
                          JUDY CHU, California
                         SHARICE DAVIDS, Kansas
                      CHRIS PAPPAS, New Hampshire

                  Ben Johnson, Majority Staff Director
                 Melissa Jung, Minority Staff Director

                            C O N T E N T S

                           OPENING STATEMENTS

                                                                   Page
Hon. Roger Williams..............................................     1
Hon. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez.....................................     2

                               WITNESSES

Mr. Kendell Culp, Vice President, Indiana Farm Bureau, 
  Rensselaer, IN.................................................     5
Ms. Jennifer Cassaday, Owner, Byrd's Pecan Delights, Adrian, MO..     7
Mr. Matt Splitter, Owner, Splitter Farms, Sterling, KS...........     8
Mr. Josh Phillips, Owner, Spawn Fly Fish, Ilwaco, WA.............    10

                                APPENDIX

Prepared Statements:
    Mr. Kendell Culp, Vice President, Indiana Farm Bureau, 
      Rensselaer, IN.............................................    38
    Ms. Jennifer Cassaday, Owner, Byrd's Pecan Delights, Adrian, 
      MO.........................................................    31
    Mr. Matt Splitter, Owner, Splitter Farms, Sterling, KS.......    44
    Mr. Josh Phillips, Owner, Spawn Fly Fish, Ilwaco, WA.........    42
Questions for the Record:
    None.
Answers for the Record:
    None.
Additional Material for the Record:
    Guam Chamber of Commerce Partners in Progress................    46
    Washington State Microenterprise Association (WSMA)..........    48
    .............................................................
    Letter from Carter Malloy, Founder & CEO, AcreTrader to Hon. 
      Roger Williams.............................................    53

 
  RURAL ENTREPRENEURSHIP: EXAMINING THE CHALLENGES AND STATE OF RURAL 
                            SMALL BUSINESSES

                              ----------                              


                        WEDNESDAY, JULY 26, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
               Committee on Small Business,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The Committee met, pursuant to call, at 10:02 a.m., in Room 
2360, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Roger Williams 
[chairman of the Committee] presiding.
    Present: Representatives Williams, Stauber, Meuser, Mann, 
Ellzey, Molinaro, Alford, Scholten, Thanedar, Davids, and 
Pappas.
    Also Present: Representative Moylan.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Good morning. I now call the Committee 
on Small Business to order.
    Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a 
recess of the Committee at any time.
    I now recognize myself for my opening statement.
    Welcome to today's hearing that will focus on the 
challenges facing main street in rural America.
    I want to thank our witnesses for being here today and I 
understand that all of you traveled a long way to share your 
stories. There are probably more important things that you 
could be accomplishing back home and at work but I am extremely 
grateful that you chose to give us your time to tell us about 
your businesses and backgrounds so we can hear directly from 
all of you.
    Entrepreneurs in rural communities are responsible for 
bringing life, jobs, and economic advancement on their 
hometowns. However, in Biden's America rural entrepreneurs face 
a series of unique challenges that make running their 
businesses more difficult than they need to be. Small 
businesses across America are facing unprecedented economic 
challenges, high taxes, and unnecessary regulatory burdens. To 
make matters worse, according to the Congressional Budget 
Office, inflation in rural areas was over double that in the 
urban areas.
    Unfortunately, the obstacles do not stop here. Workforce 
issues and the inability to obtain affordable capital is making 
it more challenging to keep operations moving forward. While 
there are certainly headwinds for all rural entrepreneurs, I 
remain confident that they will overcome these obstacles.
    In the meantime, this Committee will be looking at the 
federal resources that are available to rural business owners 
to ensure that they are making the intended impact. The 
challenges of a business owner in Weatherford, Texas, where I 
am from faces very different than those in Washington, D.C. 
While no entrepreneur needs the government to be successful, we 
must ensure that if we are spending taxpayer dollars to help 
our nation's job creators they will be able to be utilized by 
all people regardless of where they are located.
    So Congress is currently working on the new Farm Bill that 
will provide certainty for our nation's farmers and ranchers 
for their next 5 years. These businesses feed American and it 
is important that we are listening to their concerns as this 
bill is being developed.
    And I am glad we have some of our witnesses here today that 
will be able to give us their perspectives on the challenges 
they are seeing in their rural communities. There is no doubt 
rural small businesses are resilient and will not stop in the 
face of adversity and hardship, and I am confident that their 
hard work and unrelenting spirit of all of you and 
entrepreneurship that happens our rural small business owners 
exhibit can be a shining example for all of our nation's job 
creators. And where there are gaps, we need to understand where 
federal, state and local assistance programs can help.
    So I look forward to our discussion today as we shed light 
on the challenges facing rural America while highlighting 
success stories that give hope to entrepreneurs across the 
country.
    So I ask unanimous consent to waive Representative Moylan 
from Guam onto the Committee for the purpose of asking 
questions in today's hearing.
    And without objection, so ordered.
    So with that, I will now yield to Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez for 
an opening statement.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding 
this important hearing.
    As somebody who lives in rural Washington, the importance 
of supporting our rural entrepreneurs is an issue close to my 
heart and vital to our economic prosperity. Too often when we 
think of places with robust entrepreneurship, rural areas are 
left out of that discussion. Yet, small companies are the 
foundation of rural economies delivering essential services to 
residents fostering job creation and stimulating economic 
growth. Unfortunately, rural businesses also often face 
disproportionate challenges when starting and scaling their 
operations.
    In my home county, Skamania County, and many others across 
the country, rural businesses lack the capital that is easier 
to obtain in major cities, the high-speed broadband connection 
that keep them competitive, the clean water that keeps them 
healthy, and the workforce to grow their enterprise.
    The disparity in rural areas extends beyond just 
entrepreneurship--from access to healthcare, to neglected 
infrastructure, to food and banking deserts--rural communities 
are consistently at a disadvantage. Often, being rural 
literally means being further away from some of the essential 
services which makes the small and local businesses that much 
more important.
    If your car breaks down or your phone screen shatters, most 
people cannot go 2 or 3 hours in the city to the nearest 
dealership or Apple store. Instead, you have to rely on your 
local mechanic or electronic shop. And yet, many manufacturers 
are trying to stop the ability of these shops to provide basic 
services to rural residents, which is why I came to Congress to 
support right to repair legislation.
    Despite existing resources, rural towns may lack the 
support to navigate complex grant programs or interact with 
federal agencies and that basic infrastructure is invaluable to 
nurturing an entrepreneurial ecosystem that creates economic 
growth and resilience.
    It is our duty here in Congress to meet the needs of our 
rural entrepreneurs and unleash the power of our federal 
programs and investments. And we are taking significant steps 
to do just that with historic funding for broadband, fiber, and 
water system projects under the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, 
energy modernization with the Inflation Reduction Act, and 
shifts in focus to place-based local strategies.
    Last year's Democratic majority led the way to a brighter 
future for rural America. But our work is far from over. My 
partners on both sides of the aisle and I are working hard to 
make sure that these infrastructure and energy laws are 
implemented effectively and that rural areas get our fair 
share.
    I am especially proud to cosponsor the bipartisan 
Supporting Small Businesses in Career and Technical Education 
Act of 2023, which would empower hardworking Americans to join 
the trades and train them to start their own small businesses.
    As we move forward with landmark investments in our 
communities, I remain committed to ensuring that rural America 
is not left behind.
    With that, I would like to thank all the witnesses for 
joining us today. We look forward to hearing your testimony.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The Member yields back.
    And now I will introduce our witnesses.
    Our first witness with us here today is Mr. Kendell Culp. 
Mr. Culp is the vice president of the Indiana Farm Bureau 
located in Rensselaer. I am from Texas so that is hard to say. 
Rensselaer, Indiana. Mr. Culp was also recently elected in 2022 
to the Indiana House of Representatives and serves on the U.S. 
Department of Agriculture's Technical Advisory Committee. He 
previously serve as the Jasper County commissioner, president 
of the Indiana Association of County Commissioners, and vice 
president of the Indiana Farm Bureau. And we know in Texas the 
power of the county commissioner, so you are a big deal in 
Indiana. So good job. Mr. Culp is a graduate of Purdue 
University. Mr. Culp, thank you for joining us today and we 
look forward to today's conversation.
    Our next witness with us today is Mr. Matthew Splitter. I 
am former baseball player and when I hear splitter it scares me 
to death. Mr. Splitter is the owner of Splitter Farms located 
in Sterling, Kansas. Splitter Farms began in 1876 when Wilhelm 
Splitter moved to Central Kansas. Five generations later, the 
family still farms the same land and Mr. Matthew Splitter 
returned to the family farm when he was just 24 years old and a 
new graduate. Mr. Splitter has served on multiple boards, 
including the Central Prairie Co-op Board of Directors and the 
Kansas Corn Association Board of Directors, as well as 
currently serving on the FCC's Federal Advisory Commission, a 
Precision Ag Connectivity Taskforce. Mr. Splitter is a graduate 
of Kansas State University. I am a TC Horn Frog. Okay? Where 
you earned a bachelor's degree in agriculture, agricultural 
operations, and related sciences. He also recently attended 
Texas A&M's Executive Program for Agricultural Producers in 
2020. So Mr. Splitter, thank you for joining us today, and we 
look forward to hearing a conversation with you also.
    I now recognize my colleague, Representative Alford from 
the great state of Missouri, to briefly introduce his 
constituent who is appearing before us today.
    Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Our next witness here with us today is Jennifer Cassaday. 
Ms. Cassaday is the owner of Byrd's Pecan Delights located in 
Bates County, Missouri, which I was just at last week with 
about I think 50 other small business owners who wanted to come 
learn about the Small Business Administration and how we were 
making positive changes. She brought along some bourbon roasted 
pecans which I may pass around here on the dais and let you 
have a few, Chairman.
    She founded her business, Byrd's Pecan Delights in 2014, 
following in the footsteps of her grandparents who opened a 
shop after buying a pecan farm in 1964. Relying on farm fresh 
pecans for many of their products, Ms. Cassaday now knows 
firsthand the challenges that rural small businesses can face 
such as droughts which we are facing today, extreme drought, 
rural delivery routes and lack of resources. A lot of people do 
not think about these things. In true entrepreneurial spirit, 
Ms. Cassaday does not only own and operate Byrd's Pecan 
Delights but she also serves as the president of the Adrian 
Chamber of Commerce. She is here with her husband, Jeremy, who 
is also a small business owner and a Harley rider. Good guy. 
Ms. Cassaday, thank you for being a rich part of America's 
fabric joining us today, and hopefully we can learn something 
from your experiences that we can make some positive changes in 
America.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Representative Alford yields back.
    I now recognize Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez to briefly introduce 
our last witness appearing before us today.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I would like to welcome Josh Phillips, the owner of Spawn 
Fly Fish, a growing small business in Ilwaco, Washington. Mr. 
Phillips started his business at home in 2017 creating lifelike 
molded fish heads as lures for flyfishing. He soon acquired a 
building in Ilwaco, branched out to kayaks and other flyfishing 
equipment, and built an ecommerce brand that is globally 
distributed. Today, Spawn Fly Fish is a full-scale brick and 
mortar store. Before becoming an entrepreneur, Mr. Phillips was 
a substitute teacher and a professional soccer player where he 
captained the Portland Timbers second team. You know, we joke 
in D.C. and in my office that here on the East Coast they have 
marble and museums and on the West Coast at home we have the 
woods. And we are very grateful for Mr. Phillips's leadership 
in ensuring and fighting for public access to the woods and our 
rivers. He is active in his local community and sharing his 
rural small business knowledge and experience with other local 
small business owners and the high school. He holds a 
bachelor's degree in business administration from Gonzaga. 
Thank you so much for being here with us today, Mr. Phillips, 
and thank you to the rest of the panel. I look forward to 
hearing and our discussion today.
    I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez yields back. And I 
want to thank you for that. And we appreciate all of you again 
being here today.
    So before we are recognizing the witnesses, we will do some 
housekeeping. I would like to remind them that their oral 
testimony is restricted to 5 minutes in length. And if you get 
a little long you are going to hear me do this (tapping of 
gavel). Okay? That means you are done. Okay? And if you see the 
light turn red in front of you it means your 5 minutes is 
coming up. Okay?
    So I want to now recognize Mr. Culp for your 5-minute 
opening remarks.

   STATEMENTS OF KENDALL CULP, VICE PRESIDENT, INDIANA FARM 
 BUREAU; JENNIFER CASSADAY; OWNER, BYRD`S PECAN DELIGHTS; MATT 
 SPLITTER, OWNER, SPLITTER FARMS; JOSH PHILLIPS, OWNER, SPAWN 
                            FLY FISH

                   STATEMENT OF KENDELL CULP

    Mr. CULP. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Members of the 
Committee. I appreciate the opportunity to be here to speak to 
you this morning about the challenges that rural communities 
and small businesses are facing. As the Chairman introduced 
myself, I am Kendell Culp and I testify before you this morning 
as vice president of Indiana Farm Bureau. I am also a Member of 
the Board of Directors of the American Soybean Association and 
I am proud to represent House District 16 in the Indiana 
General Assembly in my first term.
    I live and farm near Rensselaer, Indiana. That is a town of 
about 6,000 people. That is located in Jasper County in the 
northwest quadrant of the state of Indiana. I farm with my 
father and my wife and my son on our family farm. We raise 
corn, soybeans, beef cattle, and hogs. We also operate Culp 
Family Farms meat sales as well as a catering service.
    Now, in the past, as you said, I served as Jasper County 
commissioner for 18 years, been on our local drainage board, 
and served on our county's Economic Development Board. Because 
of these past associations, I believe I can offer a unique 
perspective to the challenges that we face today in rural 
communities.
    First of all, our rural communities face several challenges 
and the 2020 Census certainly highlighted how dire that 
situation is across rural America. Rural communities have seen 
a decline in population in the last many years while our 
friends in urban and suburban area has seen growth.
    According to the 2020 Census, 53 percent of Indiana's 
countries lost population which mirrors the exact percentage we 
have seen across all of the United States. That is a problem 
that certainly must be addressed before our rural communities 
begin to disappear.
    I am sure it will come to no surprise to the Committee to 
know that the workforce challenges are the forefront of every 
industry, every community, and every business whether large or 
small. Jobs cannot get filled, shops and restaurants are having 
to cut back and reduce their hours of operation, and small 
business that are so important to rural American in many cases 
are closing for good. Now, I have seen this happen in my own 
hometown. Last year, two small family businesses closed because 
the next generation chose not to move back to their hometown 
where they were born to continue on that family business.
    Now, in order to attract, small businesses in small 
communities need access to reliable broadband. Today, internet 
access is a must for small businesses, and without that 
reliable connectivity, they will miss out on opportunities 
needed to survive and to grow their business.
    Now, like several other counties in Indiana, Jasper County 
was a childcare desert and young families that needed that 
childcare were forced to drive up to 45 minutes to find that 
service. Now, with the help of a few local folks, our 
communities, local government, and businesses, Appleseed 
Childhood Education opened its doors earlier this year to 70 
slots for children to be served in our community for quality 
childhood education. And really, it showed that if a community 
comes together and pools their energy and pools their resources 
that we can tackle an issue and come to resolve.
    Finally, we must focus also on quality of life amenities. 
When potential new families come to communities, they want to 
know do we have high quality educational opportunities in your 
community? Do we have access to healthcare and emergency 
services? Is there adequate and affordable housing in your 
community? And do we have the road, water, and utility 
infrastructure needed to support those residences and those 
business? All these questions must be addressed if we are going 
to attract and retain workforce in our communities.
    Now, I have identified some of the challenges that we face 
in our communities but what can Congress do to help? Well, 
first of all, I would encourage Congress to work together and 
pass a bipartisan 2023 Farm Bill on time so that we cannot lose 
access to the programs that we really need. The Farm Bill 
impacts the well-being of all Americans, and while it is not 
the fix for everything, the challenges that our rural 
communities are facing, the rural development title of the Farm 
Bill offers programs that can add tools that communities need 
as they plan for future and future growth.
    In conclusion, I want to thank you today for the 
opportunity to testify. Rural communities are the backbone of 
this nation and in many cases agriculture, along with those 
small businesses, are the economic drivers of those 
communities. If farmers have a good year they are going to 
spend dollars in their hometown and that benefits main street 
businesses and they will flourish as well. Open discussions 
like this will allow us to find solutions to the challenges 
that we face. I truly love living and working in my rural 
community and it is my greatest honor to serve my constituents 
in my district. I look forward to answering your questions 
today and discussing some of the challenges of our communities. 
Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Perfect.
    I now recognize Ms. Cassaday for her 5-minute opening 
remarks.

                 STATEMENT OF JENNIFER CASSADAY

    Ms. CASSADAY. Thank you.
    I am here representing businesses in a town of about 1,700 
people. Adrian, Missouri is located about 60 miles south of 
Kansas City, right on the I-49 border. We are a town of people 
who back each other up and support each other every which way 
we can. It is a town primarily made up of farmers, teachers, 
and other business owners who understand what it means to work 
for everything you have.
    Business owners in the area work 24/7 to keep their doors 
open trying to fulfill a dream. Each one of them have a story 
to share about why they became entrepreneurs and why they 
continue to strive for success with their business. Each one of 
them will probably also tell you that it is one of the hardest 
things they have ever done. At least that was the most common 
reply I got when I was asking their thoughts on running a 
business in 2023.
    I first opened my business back in 2014 at a very small 
location a few blocks from where it is now. Four years ago I 
moved into a building that we renovated because it was located 
right off the interstate. I then completely revamped my 
business plan. We still sell our pecans that we raise as a 
family on about 600 acres of pecan trees, but we also offer a 
full breakfast, lunch, dinner menu. We make our own homemade 
ice cream. We sell gourmet coffee and it is also a bakery as I 
am a certified pastry chef by trade. Within 6 months of opening 
at this location, we went up against COVID, followed by supply 
shortages, wage increases, and inflation.
    At times it feels like the odds are stacked completely 
against us as business owners. I recently had to purchase a van 
in order to travel an hour to the city to get supplies to 
supplement having it delivered because I could simply save 
money. I am able to save $300 to $400 a week by doing this but 
I have to use up an entire day of not being at my business to 
do it.
    I will say I love what I do and I am fortunate enough to 
have family, friends, community, and not to mention a great 
staff that backs up my dreams as if it is their own. Even 
though I cannot pay them what they well deserve, and I cannot 
afford to offer insurance or other benefits because as a small 
business owner there is also no breaks on that unless you have 
large amounts of employees.
    Our profit margins allow for very little spending because 
we also cannot price things where they need to be in order to 
take care of everything or else we price ourselves out of the 
market. For example, I buy my supplies at the same place 
restaurants in Kansas City buy their suppliers but I cannot 
sell it on the menu for the same as what they sell it for.
    If we drive away our local commerce, then we have to rely 
more and more on the outside commerce to come into our town, 
which is what our focus has been here lately. Our reality that 
we accept and embrace is that if we rely on the population of 
1,700 within our town then our businesses just will not survive 
right now.
    Unfortunately, this means we have to advertise at a large 
radius to get more people to travel to come and see us or come 
off the highway. This takes billboards and large amounts of 
advertising. In the city, the marketing philosophy is how to 
bring people off the street, but in rural America the concept 
is a bit more broad and it is how do we convince people to 
drive the 20, 30, 60 minutes to come to our town or exit off 
the interstate. Just having a sign listed under the Food this 
Exit, Missouri Department of Transportation charges $2,000 a 
year. And it is higher depending on the traffic so it is 
usually just larger businesses and chains that can even afford 
that. Advertising with travel magazines and similar entities 
cost upwards of $1,000 plus a year, and that is a lot of money 
when trying to balance daily sales and with the higher cost of 
everything. At the end of the day, there just is not anything 
left to work with.
    We need some barriers to be broken down so small businesses 
can succeed and not feel like it is impossible to be 
successful. The more sales tax that comes through a small city 
the better it can survive. It helps the schools. It helps the 
community. It helps those who cannot pay their bills. It helps 
on the federal level as well but then it also helps the city to 
function and to thrive on its own two feet. And it takes those 
tax dollars to do that. We are not fans of big chains but our 
small town, even if we were, they would never set up shop 
because we do not have the population to support it. That means 
the commerce has to fall completely back on small businesses. 
And when small businesses cannot survive, small towns in rural 
America will continue to fall.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you.
    And I now recognize Mr. Splitter for his 5-minute opening 
remarks.

                   STATEMENT OF MATT SPLITTER

    Mr. SPLITTER. Thank you, Chairman, and the entire SBA Small 
Business Committee.
    It is an honor to be here before you today as a fifth 
generation farmer from Central Kansas. If I told you that 
farming was in my blood I would lie. I was adopted before I was 
born so this is kind of living the true American dream.
    In 2010, my wife Janna and I had the opportunity to take 
over our family farm. My father had just passed away and we 
came back to a farm that was 1,200 acres and one seasonal 
employee. As we sit here today, we farm over 10,000 acres in 
Central Kansas and we have six to eight full-time employees.
    As I wrap up in m11th year of full-time farming, we can 
reflect back on all the challenges and the success stories that 
we have had. Our growth has been contributed mostly to 
relationship building. A lot of retiring farmers, neighboring 
farmers, and custom work. Lots of sleepless nights and just 
lots of prayers got us to where we are today.
    I would like to talk a little bit about the challenges, the 
opportunities, and the quality of life. There are micro and 
macro challenges that face today's young farmers. One of the 
largest challenges that face young farmers today is access to 
capital. Regulations placed on lending institutions make it 
difficult to access necessary funding that allows a small 
farmer and a young farmer to plant their crop. With little to 
no collateral, the ability to borrow is significant limited. 
Other resources, such as USDA/FSA loans are great alternatives 
but they are cumbersome and time consuming. In today's fast-
changing markets, time is of the essence. Same is the case for 
rural Main Stret and small businesses. Capital is hard to come 
by and very complicated to work through. Very cumbersome and 
very slow.
    Most recently, supply chain issues, inflation, regulatory 
uncertainty, and weather--we just came out of the worst drought 
that I have seen and I have not been farming very long but it 
has been a tremendous drought through Central Kansas--makes 
producing the world's safest and most affordable food supply 
very difficult.
    Inflation continues to wreak havoc on our farm equipment 
purchasing and borrowing. Daily, we struggle procuring parts 
for equipment, seed, and fertilizer for crops regardless of the 
price. We just cannot get them. More specifically, equipment 
costs on our operation were up 12 percent from late 2021 to 
early 2023. Seed costs were up 7 to 12 percent from 2022 to 
2023. Fertilizer prices have fluctuated from 25 to 70 percent 
increases year on year. Although prices were up, commodity 
prices were also higher. It helped offset some of those costs. 
The 2022 growing season was extremely dry. We had 33 percent of 
our average rainfall and were unable to raise even our average 
production number. Our wheat harvest that we just got out of 
about 12 days ago was about 30 to 40 percent of our average. To 
me, it feels like some federal regulations are trying to put 
family farms out of business while we should be working 
together to be the world's gold standard in agriculture.
    More challenges that rural Americans face, not just 
agriculture producers, are access to healthcare, quality 
education, childcare, high speed internet access, quality 
housing. The list goes on.
    Although there are multiple challenges, there are multiple 
opportunities as well. There are great opportunities for 
entrepreneurs in rural America. The need for main streets to 
stay vibrant and cater to the local economy remain. We need 
local businesses where we can shop and socialize without having 
to travel out of our community.
    With the realization that working remotely is more widely 
accepted, moving to rural areas has become more attractive. The 
push and implementation of rural broadband access will allow 
employees and employers to connect regardless of geographical 
location.
    In the 2017 Census, the average age of the farmer was 57-1/
2 years old. The land is not going anywhere and the opportunity 
still exists for young farmers to begin. Kansas State 
University's Office of Farm and Ranch Transition is helping 
link beginning farmers with retiring farmers. This program 
allows for mentorship while searching for the next generation 
to farm. It is a one-of-a-kind program providing young 
entrepreneurs a chance to follow their dreams.
    Up to this point we have been very proud to say all of our 
employees are long-time and lifelong Members of our local 
communities. The wages that we pay to our employees stay local. 
Their children go to or have gone to the local public schools. 
They shop local. Tax dollars stay local. They use medical 
services that are local and support may organizations. They are 
volunteers in their 4-H clubs, Members of the volunteer fire 
department, and they volunteer their time at church. Our 
closest friends are doctors, nurses, schoolteachers, engineers, 
work in the tech sector, veterinarians, bankers, coaches. My 
time is running up. I am going to talk faster. Restaurant 
owners, neighboring farmers. But they have all chosen to be in 
rural America.
    Our county, Rice County, Kansas, has 9,400 people and four 
stoplights, one of which works after 6:00 p.m. We are the 
epitome of rural America and we deserve recognition.
    Again, thank you for inviting me to speak before you and I 
look forward to answering any questions and being a resource 
for further policy discussion.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you, Mr. Splitter. Great story.
    I now recognize Mr. Phillips for his 5-minute opening 
remarks.

                   STATEMENT OF JOSH PHILLIPS

    Mr. PHILLIPS. Chairman Williams, Ranking Member Gluesenkamp 
Perez, I am delighted to stand before you today and share my 
story.
    My name is Josh Phillips, and I am the owner and president 
of Spawn Fly Fish, a thriving fly shop located in Ilwaco, 
Washington. This quaint town over 2,000 miles away embodies the 
essence of rural America where challenges are plentiful. 
However, my company has committed to not only achieving success 
in our community, but also inspiring success in rural 
communities nationwide, despite the obstacles we face.
    Having grown up visiting Ilwaco my entire life, and moving 
there full time several years ago, I have personally witnessed 
the struggles endured by its community. Limited housing, scarce 
job opportunities, and the subsequent talent drain from rural 
areas are all too familiar to us. Driven to make a difference, 
I embarked on a journey to bring a growing ecommerce business 
to Ilwaco, showcasing the power of hard work and determination.
    While our venture focuses on fly fishing, it is our 
unwavering passion to the community that has garnered 
recognition and success in rural America. Recognizing the need 
for stability in rural communities, I seized the opportunity to 
create a foundation of support and empowerment using the tools 
at hand. Spawn Fly Fish was born out of a deep commitment to 
providing exceptional products and fostering a sense of 
community among fly fishing enthusiasts.
    To ensure the success of our business, we made a commitment 
to rural America by building a thriving community around our 
brand through a brick-and-mortar storefront. We understand the 
significance of supporting local economies and garnering job 
opportunities within our community. By sourcing materials 
locally and collaborating with other small businesses in the 
area, we not only bolster the regional economy but also forge 
strong relationships that continue to improve the overall 
growth and vitality of rural America.
    In addition to our dedication to the local community, we 
are also advocates for environmental sustainability. 
Recognizing the delicate balance of our ecosystems and the 
importance of preserving the natural resources that enable 
outdoor recreation, Spawn Fly Fish is dedicated to 
preservation. We donate a percentage of profits to conservation 
groups and aim to create lifelong stewards of the environment.
    Through our unwavering commitment to our rural community, 
Spawn Fly Fish has emerged as more than just a thriving 
business. We have become a beacon of hope, fostering a strong 
sense of community and inspiring success. Our entrepreneurial 
spirit exemplifies the resilience and determination that define 
our great nation, serving as an inspiration for others in rural 
communities. By demonstrating that success can be achieved 
outside of urban centers, our small fly shop paves the way for 
the revitalization of rural economies and the empowerment of 
local talent.
    However, life as a small business owner in a rural 
community is incredibly challenging. After 6 years, we are 
still completely owner-operated without any employees. The lack 
of available housing makes it difficult for us to attract 
talented staff, and this housing issue also affects us as 
owners. To address this, I had to advocate to the local city 
council to allow for single-floor occupancy in the commercial 
district, enabling one of my partners to move to Ilwaco and 
help operate our business together.
    The obstacles we face go beyond housing. Our financial 
situation is a constant battle, as rural communities often 
experience high turnover of businesses and lack of banking 
options. Securing simple lines of credit and business loans 
becomes a lengthy and challenging process, forcing us to rely 
on credit cards for operating expenses.
    In addition, essential services such as gas, water, 
groceries, internet, and health services are all limited and 
come at a premium cost in rural communities. This further 
strains our financial resources.
    Many rural communities like ours rely on tourism, and many 
of these communities' tourism opportunities, including ours, 
involve outdoor recreation. At the forefront of recreation in 
Ilwaco is fishing. The need for funding and proper management 
of these fish populations and the watersheds that they live are 
vital to our community's survival. Not only are recreational 
activities like fishing experiencing limitations, but the 
places where these actives occur--public lands--are being 
restricted. Limited access to public land has becomes more of 
an obstacle, hindering our ability to fish and recreate in the 
places that we love. When someone visits our community to 
recreate, every single person in this community wins.
    Despite all the challenges, we remain committed to the 
future of rural communities. We understand that if we lose the 
people who care about these areas, our rural communities will 
lose their essence and vibrancy. Therefore, we persist in our 
efforts to overcome these obstacles, seeking solutions and 
support to ensure the long-term sustainability of our business 
and others like it.
    In closing, I extend my gratitude to the Committee Members 
for your time and consideration. It is an absolute honor to 
have the opportunity today to share my experience and offer 
insights into what it takes to build, sustain, and inspire 
small business in rural America. I am ready to answer any 
questions and champion the prosperity of rural communities. 
Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Great job on the timing and great 
stories from all of you.
    Let me just say you are going to see Committee people 
moving in and out. There are a lot of hearings going on so they 
will be coming in and out as you see that.
    Now we will move to the Member questions under the 5-minute 
rule, and I recognize myself for 5 minutes.
    As the Chairman of this Committee, I have repeatedly 
discussed my personal experiences as a small business owner. 
Many people know that I own car dealerships back in Texas but 
what they may not know is that I also run a Black Angus calf-
cow operation and pecans. Not nearly as large as yours. And I 
can tell you that I know the price of fertilizer and what it 
has done. And the struggles that so many people have faced, we 
have faced in many cases firsthand that all of you talked about 
here today.
    So with out of control inflation and a brown bale of hay 
that usually runs 40 to 45 bucks is now $95 in a business with 
such tight margins, these changes can be detrimental to long-
term success.
    So Mr. Splitter, I would like to ask you. Do you have any 
examples of how inflation is hurting your farm? And how have 
you had to adjust operations to compensate for those higher 
prices?
    Mr. SPLITTER. Compensation for higher prices--consolidation 
in agriculture is just tough. Access to a competitive market is 
really tough as well. But as inflation goes, because we are 
young farmers, young business, we do not have cash reserves to 
go back to. Whatever the interest rate does, it does. We still 
have to pull on a line of credit. We are probably doing a 
little bit more marketing on our grain side, extending 
ourselves out a little bit so we can lock in some grain prices. 
Whenever we are making a big purchase of fertilizer, seed, or 
chemical, we are offsetting it with a futures price as well on 
the board. We are being just more aggressive in that nature.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. My second question, over the last few 
years business owners across the country have faced economic 
uncertainties. We have talked about that. But one thing is 
certain; main street is resilient and ready. And I have always 
said that small business owners will do whatever they can to 
survive and are willing to make tough decisions in order to 
keep doing what they love. So unlike the government, the 
private sector will find ways to keep their doors open with our 
money.
    So Ms. Cassaday, as the president of your local chamber in 
Adrian, Missouri, a town as you said of less than 2,000 people, 
you have a unique perspective on the local business in your 
area. So what challenges do you face operating in a rural 
community? And what efforts do you take to attract people and 
businesses to come to the community?
    Ms. CASSADAY. Well, we get together and we do things like 
trying to plan events. But really the biggest thing that I 
think hurts a lot of us directly is with this inflation. You 
know, I have to constantly look at how I am going to price all 
of my items on my menu, what we sell. But then you feel like 
you are constantly raising prices, raising prices, raising 
prices. And then you listen to customers get frustrated at, you 
know, well, I could go somewhere else and get this so much 
cheaper. Well, we know that but we are kind of backed into a 
corner and do not have much option and we are still struggling 
to keep our doors open. So I am still not able to price things 
where they need to be but----
    Chairman WILLIAMS. And it is difficult to pass it on to 
customers.
    Ms. CASSADAY. It is very difficult to pass it on to 
customers right now.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. You have got help from both sides here.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Yeah, because the inflation is, I mean, they 
are hurting our customers.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yeah.
    Ms. CASSADAY. They are paying higher amounts at the grocery 
stores and everywhere that they go. So, of course, they are 
looking for cheaper items and we cannot compete with the bigger 
chains and what they have to offer.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Mr. Culp, as you know, many small 
business owners are unaware of the government resources that 
are out there or find the application process to burdensome to 
even want to get involved in it. What are you hearing from 
businesses about this problem about able to access, and what 
have you done on the state and local level to bring the 
community together to find solutions and create a better 
economic environment in Indiana?
    Mr. CULP. Well, that is a concern. I hear that over and 
over again from small businessmen. I mean, I have participated 
on an energy grant program to have energy savings on my farm 
and so I had to hire a consultant to do the application for me. 
And then there is follow up. Every year there is additional 
documents that have to be filed. If you do not go that route of 
hiring someone else, if you forget to do that or file that on 
time then you are liable to repay all of that and lose your 
grant. So that certainly is a big issue. We need to make sure 
that there is less of those regulations. And in some cases 
there is just not a knowledge that that even exists.
    And I can tell you at the state level we do that. We just 
passed a budget in Indiana and we have dollars available for 
different programs to support and to help the growth of those 
businesses. And we think as legislators that we have done our 
job and we say, well, we have taken care of that problem 
because we have delegated or we have appropriated those 
dollars. What we do not do is follow up to see did those 
dollars get to where they were supposed to go, to the right 
groups, the right communities to help them. And so we are 
really relying on others to make sure that the application gets 
done and in many cases it does not reach the right location.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Thank you. My time is up.
    I now recognize Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez for 5 minutes of 
questions.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Mr. Phillips, could you share your experience in finding 
capital for your business?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. I can. Yes.
    As a growing ecommerce brand we have had extreme struggles 
finding local banking options. With limited options, we have 
turned to credit cards, which every bank in America will sign a 
small business up for. This has posed a massive challenge on us 
as a small business.
    Also, the other need for capital, as a small business we 
have not been able to look far out into the future so we have 
relied on reactionary options such as online lending platforms 
which come at a premium, although turnover is very fast, 
further burdening a small business.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. What was the main reason you opted 
not to pursue a loan from the SBA?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. The main reason is not that I do not 
understand how to check each box. The main reason is that as a 
small business owner, when we are not doing one task, another 
task is being impacted. So for me to check each box means that 
the daily operations of our small business are not being 
fulfilled, which in turn hurts our small business and does not 
allow us to operate the way that we need to to support our 
local community.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Would you agree that more investment 
is needed to make the SBA's loan application process more 
accessible and straightforward for small business owners?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. I would agree, yes, so that we have time to 
do what we need to do to survive.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. So in the past, so in some parts of your 
district I know we can count the number of banks on one hand. 
How much harder does the lack of a physical bank make getting 
loans and investments for small businesses?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. It does make it extremely challenging. We 
bank with Chase, and the nearest Chase is over 2-1/2 hours 
away. Like you heard earlier, these times that we are not in 
the physical location of our small business, again, restrict us 
from operating. A day to visit a bank takes 2-1/2 hours one 
way, an hour meeting, and 2-1/2 hours back. That day is 
essentially over.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. So, when there are just one or two 
banks and, you know, a 3-hour drive, how does that affect the 
favorability of the loans and fees a client could get, would 
you say?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. It does not really give us an option as a 
small business. Or in turn, like I stated earlier, it lends our 
ability to venture elsewhere which in turn is the internet.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. You know, almost every community I 
visit--and in my community--housing is the issue we hear over 
and over and over from small business owners. Like, we cannot 
find housing for the people we need to hire. And so, I thought 
your solution was really interesting of lobbying. And you know, 
we talked about the headache and the struggle to get your 
property rezoned so that you were able to, you know, it is so 
funny to go into your business and there is like a coffee cup. 
You know, someone is living there. So, I wonder if you could 
talk about your experience finding housing, navigating, and the 
necessity of, you know, zoning flexibility.
    Mr. PHILLIPS. Yeah. Our housing on the coast of Washington 
is extremely limited, which has possessed a ton of challenges. 
As Ms. Gluesenkamp Perez just stated, a business owner of mine 
occupies the back space which was previously unallowed. We had 
to advocate for single-floor occupancy to our city council. And 
there was a lot of hesitancy against it. But through constant 
communication, our dedication to our community, we were able to 
get that passed and in turn allow for my partner to move to 
Ilwaco to benefit our local community.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Thank you so much.
    Ms. Cassaday, thank you for staying in business. Thank you 
for fighting the fight. I know that, you know, you would have a 
lot less heartache doing something else. And so thank you so 
much.
    And I saw on your Facebook page that you are out recruiting 
high schoolers and looking for work. And I wonder if you could 
sort of talk about the mutual value of bringing in young people 
and having meaningful work in their local communities, your 
efforts to find them. Just, yeah, talking about your labor 
market.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Well, when it comes to teenagers, I think I 
look at my teen staff as my kids. I kind of become their mom 
because this younger generation, you know, they rely on texting 
and I have to teach them how to work a landline. So if that 
tells us where we are starting at with this. So, yeah. It is 
just teaching them a lot of life skills. They do not know how 
to count money. You know, we are working through a lot of very 
basic things with these younger staff Members.
    Ms. GLUESENKAMP PEREZ. Well, thank you so much for doing 
that work. The apprenticeships are so necessary and thank you 
sincerely to all of our witnesses.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Thank you.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Next, I recognize Representative Meuser 
from the great state of Pennsylvania for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MEUSER. I appreciate that very much, Mr. Chairman. And 
certainly, thank you to all our witnesses for making the trip 
and being here with us today.
    So Mr. Culp, I would very much like to start with you. And 
congratulations and everything that you are doing serving as a 
representative of the Farm Bureau and many other roles that you 
play.
    So as far as small business goes, are taxes helpful, higher 
taxes? Is that something that helps small business?
    Mr. CULP. Not at all, actually.
    Mr. MEUSER. It adds cost. It adds cost.
    Mr. CULP. No. No.
    Mr. MEUSER. Do you think you pay your fair share?
    Mr. CULP. Absolutely.
    Mr. MEUSER. Okay. So, yeah. And higher taxes make American 
businesses and certainly American farms less competitive. And 
then you make less because you are paying higher taxes. Then 
there is a negative return on that investment since you are 
making less because you cannot reinvest in your business, and 
therefore, tax revenues will go down.
    How about regulations? Have regulations from the federal 
government, or state government for that matter, been helpful 
to you?
    Mr. CULP. Regulations are not helpful.
    Mr. MEUSER. Okay. So what about workforce? What do you 
think has caused the great decline? I mean, COVID, obviously, 
but since then?
    Mr. CULP. Well, COVID highlighted it but, I mean, with the 
retirement of the baby boomers, and we just do not have the 
skilled workforce available. We have issues right now where we 
have young folks--a real example is a local drive-in. I got a 
call from them at a neighboring town. A local drive-in hires 
high school kids. And so I did not realize but there are 
regulations on the number of hours they can work depending on 
their age and then depending on if it is a school year or not. 
And here are kids that are 14, 15, 16 that want to work but 
there are government regulations that say they can only work to 
9:00 p.m. and so they are not able to.
    Mr. MEUSER. So, you know, access to capital has come up 
from a few of you. The massive spending that took place over 
the last couple of years, did that benefit you? Did you see any 
of that money, $5 trillion?
    Mr. CULP. No.
    Mr. MEUSER. You did not see anything; right?
    Energy costs, obviously, that is an added burden. Causes 
inflation.
    Mr. CULP. Have gone up.
    Mr. MEUSER. As did the spending.
    And I know broadband is something that we have handled 
horribly, both the federal and state government, rural 
broadband, so that needs to be micromanaged in order so you 
have the right access to it.
    Has the federal government, particularly over the last 2 
years, done anything--and we have this Farm Bill coming out--
done anything that has been positive for you? And Ms. Cassaday, 
I am going to come to you in a second.
    Let me just divert to you if you do not mind. You are 
chamber president. You have your small business and everything 
else. You mentioned insurance. You cannot afford insurance, 
small business. There is something called association health 
plans, AHPs that used to exist. Farmers used to love them, 
particularly in Pennsylvania. But my colleagues on the democrat 
side just wiped them out. I mean, democrat governors hate them. 
Colleagues here hate them because largely, the only thing I can 
figure is they want you to go into Obamacare, the Affordable 
Care Act.
    Ms. Cassady, comment to me on why you think AHPs, if you 
are familiar with them, have been eliminated.
    Ms. CASSADAY. I am not super familiar with them.
    Mr. MEUSER. Okay. It allows all of your chamber Members to 
buy in a group so as their insurance rates, healthcare rates 
and such would come down. But they have been eliminated.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Right.
    Mr. MEUSER. It has really greatly negatively affected small 
businesses as well as farms in Pennsylvania.
    But just going through the list, has the federal government 
over the last couple of years done anything except create 
barriers as you mentioned that has been helpful?
    Ms. CASSADAY. Correct. Yeah. I mean, we are constantly 
combatting all of the inflation. You know, it seems like every 
time I turn around there is something else that costs more 
money. It is more money. It is more money.
    Mr. MEUSER. It is crazy.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Which means there is less----
    Mr. MEUSER. Crazy.
    Ms. CASSADAY. We are doing a terrible job. Right.
    Mr. Splitter, let me ask you. You brought up access to 
capital a couple of times and then you said regs are putting 
you out of business. Hopefully, this Farm Bill, I am sure the 
SNAP program, the majority of the Farm Bill, of course, has 
positive effects on your business. It needs to be continued. It 
is important. None of us argue that. Let's talk about access to 
capital. Are you using credit unions? Are you using SBA? Are 
you using community banks?
    Mr. SPLITTER. We are using a community bank that 
specializes in agriculture.
    Mr. MEUSER. Do you understand that the SEC, the FDIC and 
the Fed want to increase the deposit requirements of these 
community banks?
    Mr. SPLITTER. We have been made aware of that.
    Mr. MEUSER. Yeah, what do you think of that?
    Mr. SPLITTER. Thankfully, we are past that point in our 
operation but if we had been facing those regulations 10 years 
ago, we probably would have had to file bankruptcy.
    Mr. MEUSER. Look forward to getting from you, your 
testimonies were great, anything at all that you can provide 
that we need to stop doing or do a lot better I would love to 
see it. Thank you.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I next recognize Ms. Scholten from the 
great state of Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. And thank you 
to our incredible panel of witnesses for being here today.
    I am from the great state of Michigan where we have large 
swaths of beautiful rural area, especially in my district. So 
ensuring that we support rural small businesses is so critical 
to me. It is not just about enabling the spirit of 
entrepreneurship but making sure small and rural towns have 
reliable infrastructure, like broadband internet, water, and 
access to childcare. All these things that we have been talking 
about today I consider to be the foundations of a critical 
infrastructure on which to build small businesses in rural 
communities.
    Mr. Culp, my first question is for you. In your testimony 
you discuss the importance of attracting and maintaining a 
strong workforce. Can you talk a little bit more about how 
workforce issues compound in rural areas with other issues like 
childcare deserts or access to broadband internet?
    Mr. CULP. Absolutely. We are located in northwest Indiana. 
We are about 45 minutes you could go north or south to a more 
metropolitan area. And so we have young families that maybe 
come in and they get a job, they interview for the job, they 
get a job. Our hospital was a good example of this. And so the 
professional that is getting hired is fine to live there. The 
spouse comes and says, well, where is the retail? Where is the 
entertainment opportunities? Where are the food venues? Right? 
Where are the walking paths? And you see all of these quality 
of life and quality of place amenities that sometimes are not 
there. And if they went 45 minutes either way in our case they 
would have an abundance of all of those. And so what happens 
then, not only do they want to live there but it is like, oh, 
we have a lot more employment opportunities there as well and 
you lose those people. They just will not come because you 
cannot offer those quality of life issues.
    So I would have said 10 years ago, or 15 years ago as a 
county official, those really are not county government issues 
but I have really changed my tune on that because we have got 
to attract people to our communities to live and to work 
because we need that workforce whether it is professional or 
other. And to get that we are going to have to have things that 
attract them. And so the things you have listed certainly fall 
into those categories.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Thank you so much.
    Mr. Phillips, my next series of questions are for you. And 
I want to talk a little bit about the relationship of water to 
your business in particular as well. I am proud to represent 
miles of beautiful Lake Michigan shoreline, a year-round angler 
myself and serve on the Water Subcommittee on our 
Transportation and Infrastructure Committee here in Congress. 
We know how important clean water is to so many businesses, but 
especially one like yours.
    The fish who you rely on for your revenue depend on clean 
water. We have got a beautiful map in my office of how far the 
boundaries outstretch. I represent a lot of fish. That is the 
joke in my office.
    What is the best way in your opinion for the federal 
government to protect this vital input for the rural small 
businesses who need it?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. The biggest factor in this is that although I 
do make a living on fish, it is not just myself that benefits 
from clean water. The entire community surrounding my business 
also benefits. When somebody comes to our rural town they gas 
their boat up. They stay in a hotel. They eat at a restaurant. 
It is not just one individual when it comes to fish. It is the 
community at-large when you are talking about communities that 
rely on clean water for outdoor recreation. So in saying that, 
it is not just about me; it is about our community as a whole 
when you are talking about clean water. And knowing that I 
think is very important that it is not just about a fly shop in 
Ilwaco. It is about everybody.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yeah. It is clear you have a firsthand 
knowledge, understanding of just the greater economy that a 
business like yours supports around it.
    And quickly, you know, just as a follow-up, would you have 
chosen Ilwaco to locate your business in if its water 
infrastructure was polluted, contaminated?
    Ms. PHILLIPS. No, I would not have. The ability to get out 
and escape, per se, the challenges that we all have as business 
owners is something that revitalizes myself, as well as allows 
us to market our products to a larger audience, to communities 
across the nation.
    Ms. SCHOLTEN. Yeah, thank you so much.
    I yield back the remainder of my time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yields back her time.
    And now I recognize Representative Mann from the great 
state of Kansas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MANN. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the time. thank you 
all for being here. And Mr. Chairman, thank you for having this 
important hearing this morning.
    I represent the big 1st District of Kansas which is 60 
primarily rural counties in western, central, and the eastern 
part of our state. We have hundreds of thousands of small 
businesses in our district. About 80 percent of the folks in 
our district work in small businesses. They really drive, as we 
know, the economy and certainly the economy in my district.
    Mr. Splitter, first question is for you. I have been to 
your farm. Great seeing you. Thank you for testifying this 
morning. Great to see your wife here as well.
    In your testimony you talked about federal regulations and 
how they are trying to put family farms out of business and 
that we should be working together to be the world's gold 
standard for agriculture here in this country. I could not 
agree more with you. Can you share more about how regulations 
and federal policies have negatively impacted your farming 
operation?
    Mr. SPLITTER. On our operation, one thing that we always go 
back to is trust the science. Trust the experts. When we are 
sick at our house we do not go to Google; we go to the doctor. 
Ethanol is a big deal for us. We live 6 miles from the local 
ethanol plants and what better story can rural America tell 
than ethanol production? You know, a green plant is producing 
fuel and that green plant can be grown every year, again, and 
again, and again. Why are we limiting access to ethanol 
production? That just seems mindboggling to me.
    I have been trusting the science. EPA regulations on some 
herbicides, chemicals that we use. Atrazine in particular is 
the most studied chemical of all time and it has been proved to 
be safe in the doses and in the volumes that have been set 
forth by the EPA. But yet, we routinely, routinely, routinely 
bring it up for review. So in our house we trust the science.
    Mr. MANN. I could not agree more. And you look at the 
history of the chemicals used in agriculture today. Let's trust 
the science. Not the political science but the real science. 
Clearly, these things are safe. They have been proven over 
decades and we need to give some certainty to our ag producers.
    You mentioned in your testimony as well about Kansas State 
University's Office of Farm and Ranch Transition, their program 
which links beginning farmers with retiring farmers in an 
effort to find and mentor the next generation of farmers. Can 
you speak more about the opportunities this program to young 
entrepreneurs and future farmers in your experience interacting 
with that particular program?
    Mr. SPLITTER. Yeah. That program came into existence 
probably about 5 years ago. And we had already gone through two 
farm transitions. One after my father had passed away, so I was 
never able to be mentored by my father in a formal setting. Of 
course, all fathers mentor their children. But it was in 2015, 
we were on the verge of bankruptcy and I went to a local farmer 
who was not considered competition to me and just asked for 
mentorship. That took a lot of swallowing my pride. I did not 
know really where else to turn. And so we went into a long-term 
relationship where we were able to take over his farm so him 
and his wife could retire. That was part of our farm growth. It 
was not really a strategy as much as a resource for us to just 
grow as human beings and an operation. But that office is doing 
exactly what we did. It is matching an older generation, or an 
older generation that does not maybe have an heir to come back 
to the operation, and instead of going through the community 
and asking for applications, it is kind of like a dating 
service for farmers. It has worked. The success stories are 
just tremendous out of that office.
    Mr. MANN. It is fantastic. And I think that is an example 
for not just agriculture but all of our small businesses to be 
looking at how do we continue them on when there are not heirs 
or when the next generation does not necessarily, for whatever 
reason it does not make sense for them to carry on.
    Last question would be for you, Ms. Cassady. Can you talk 
to us a little about access to capital and what barriers do you 
face when trying to access capital for your business?
    Ms. CASSADAY. There are several barriers. And you know, 
even just opening up a business, I have talked with the local 
bankers and, you know, we have very small banks in a small 
town. And I was told that to get an SBA-backed loan is pretty 
well impossible. You will just be drowned in paperwork and it 
seems to be never-ending. And so the businesses, if you want to 
open up a business you have to get more creative and, you know, 
I had to rely on relatives and other people to help back my 
business in order to make it come into existence.
    Mr. MANN. I think that is great for this Committee to hear, 
Mr. Chairman. Here we spend tens of billions of dollars on 
these SBA loan programs, yet the regulations and the ability to 
access them are so burdensome you are being advised to not even 
pursue them.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Right.
    Mr. MANN. Which is something that, you know, has been a 
focus of this Committee and something as Members of Congress we 
all need to keep front and center.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With that I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize someone else from Kansas. We have got 
everybody from Kansas here today. Ms. Davids for 5 minutes.
    Ms. DAVIDS. Well, maybe about half the population because 
there is like six of us in the room. Seven, eight. There is 
like 10 of us. Half the population.
    Thank you, Chairman. And to everyone on the Committee. And 
to our witnesses for joining us today.
    I am excited to have this conversation, partly because 
there are some Kansans here, but also because I serve on both 
the Small Business Committee and the House Agriculture 
Committee. And so definitely appreciate some of the comments 
that we have heard today because as you can imagine there is a 
lot of overlap between the two Committees, especially 
recognizing that particularly in Kansas we have a lot of family 
farms. I think we might have some of the highest numbers of 
family farms still in the country. And then in the 3rd District 
specifically we have a lot of smaller farms and family-run 
small businesses. Certainly, we have already heard from Mr. 
Splitter in Lorraine, Kansas, which is actually further away 
than Ms.--I am sorry. It is so funny. When I go down to visit 
my family in Waynesville, Missouri, I am going to stop by. I am 
going to go down 49 and I will stop by your shop, Ms. Cassaday.
    So in Lorraine, Kansas, they are having a fifth generation 
family farm testifying here today. Mr. Splitter, I really, 
really appreciate it because you are certainly highlighting 
some of the issues that we talk about a lot on this Committee. 
And as we have been discussing the 2023 Farm Bill, I know quite 
a bit of the conversation has centered on trying to figure out 
how to address the digital divide that exists. And when we 
think about the federal government announcing recently 
broadband grants from the bipartisan infrastructure law, I was 
definitely happy to see that Kansas was going to be one of the 
states to get the federal support to improve that middle mile 
infrastructure, broadband infrastructure, because if we have 
taken anything away from today it is that we have to absolutely 
be thinking about this holistically. Everything from supporting 
our rural communities through passing the Farm Bill, to 
addressing how the operation of a modern farm or agriculture 
operation happens. You know, the technologies that are being 
used. And I think that we have seen tons of progress over the 
past few years to ensuring that all Kansans have access to 
broadband but certainly there is still a lot more work to do. 
So I am really glad to hear, Mr. Splitter, some of the comments 
that you made and then in your testimony I know you have 
addressed some of that.
    This is for anybody on the panel who wants to respond, but 
Mr. Splitter, I would love for you to kick us off here. If you 
could talk a bit about how much of an obstacle having reliable, 
fast, affordable internet access is to running your operation. 
And what does successful implementation of those federal 
broadband dollars mean to you? Like, what do you want to see 
happen with that?
    Mr. SPLITTER. Technology is a huge part of our operation. 
Just absolutely huge. Actually, as we have been sitting here 
today my phone has just been going crazy because we are 110 
degrees and all my equipment is telling me that it is too hot. 
So we are communication from the farm in Central Kansas to my 
phone in D.C. today telling me the updates, the live updates of 
what is happening with some of our equipment today.
    We may just be a technology business that is masked as a 
farm for how much data that we do. We reconcile everything to 
the decimal point and a lot of that is done in real-time on the 
fly from the operators in the cab of the tractor, sprayers, 
planters, whatever it may be.
    We have one person that we can access high speed internet 
from and it is not even high speed. There is, and this is a 
guess, probably $20,000 worth of investment of hardware on our 
end to put a receiver above the tree line and then shoot the 
signal back to us and then across our whole operation. Not 
every acre but just our farmstead, our 5-acre farmstead.
    So broadband is just tremendously important to us on our 
operation. And it really freaks out my family when the internet 
stops working in the middle of an afternoon. Business cannot 
get done. The kids cannot be quiet because their iPads quit. 
All jokes aside, it is just tremendously important that we have 
access to it. And reliable. Not even access; reliable access.
    Ms. DAVIDS. Yeah. And I just realized I took too much time 
asking my question. I just really appreciate all of you coming 
in. And in a lot of ways, highlighting how complex making sure 
that rural communities are being supported can be because of 
the multitude of issues that you all are facing. So thank you 
so much for being here today and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Yields back. I now recognize 
Representative Stauber from the great state of Minnesota for 5 
minutes.
    Mr. STAUBER. Well, thank you, MR. Chair. And I have read 
parts of your testimony. To the witnesses, thanks for being 
here.
    As my colleague from Kansas just talked about, he talked 
about broadband and the importance of it.
    I just came from a Natural Resources hearing where there 
was a piece of legislation that removed the NEPA requirements 
for laying broadband in rural American and already pre-
disturbed ground like where wires are already in the ground, 
where wires are already on the poles. They are talking about 
more NEPA to do that. So you have got electrical wires. Some of 
my colleagues on the other side of the aisle want to do a NEPA 
review to put broadband wires on an already generated 
electrical line. NEPA, 4-1/2 years on average it takes. Can you 
wait 4-1/2 years? That is on average. It is more like 9 or 11 
or a mine in Minnesota it is 20 years. I do not think you can 
wait that long. You want it now. And I think we have the 
opportunity with the investment and the need for rural 
broadband. I said this, rural America, I represent Northeast 
Minnesota. It is rural and it is beautiful. But the 
constituents that we serve that are in rural America deserve 
the same priority as those living in the metro areas. As rural 
business owners, small business owners, you deserve the exact 
same attention that somebody does in your bigger cities in your 
respective states. No more, no less. But you deserve the same. 
It has to be fair. And the frustrating thing for me, and I 
think on both sides of the aisle we have democrats and 
republicans that represent rural America. There is no daylight 
between us that represents rural America.
    As my colleague from Kansas just said, we have to get this 
done. We have to have the return on investment. And I think 
there is an urgent need to do that because we want you to 
succeed. Not just give lip service from the respective state 
capitals or our nation's capital. We have to make sure that 
this investment gets to where it needs to get and soon. Rural 
health, your small businesses, rural health, telehealth, 
telemedicine, our schools, our grocery stores, our small 
businesses like you, our farmers, we need to make that 
investment.
    Mr. Culp, in your statement you highlighted the decline in 
population in rural communities and the importance of reliable 
broadband access. How do you believe improved broadband infra 
structure can positively impact rural small businesses and 
attract new workers to live and work in our rural areas
    Mr. CULP. Well, it is going to be vitally important, 
obviously, with our workforce issues. And just the 
connectivity. You know, we learned during the pandemic that our 
home served as our school, as our doctor's office, as our 
churches; right? Everything is there. But the connection is 
broadband. And I heard them talk about we need to have 
broadband focusing on the middle mile, but in the rural areas 
we have got to have it to the last mile. Just like when they 
brought rural electrification out into the rural areas, the 
same thing. In our areas, actually, local government, our 
county is working with our local RMC, our electric provider, 
and they are providing the broadband. It seems like a natural 
entity to do that because they are used to taking those 
services out to the last mile. Broadband, obviously, needs to 
be just the same priority.
    Mr. STAUBER. In your opinion, what is holding up the 
successful implementation of rural broadband to make sure that 
it is reliable for you?
    Mr. CULP. Well, most of it is cost. It is very expensive. 
It has a very long payback. You have to remember, if you are 
taking it out, you might be running 5 miles of line and maybe 
only servicing three or four households. And so it is not cost 
effective. And that is where the grant programs come in. 
Broadband is one issue that is very unique because you have 
federal, state, and local dollars and governments all working 
together to collaborate to make sure that we get that broadband 
out to the rural areas.
    Mr. STAUBER. Mr. Culp, if you go back 70, 80 years, the 
U.S. Postal Service said every mailbox mattered. Every rural 
farm mattered. They got their mail. Now, we have to look at 
this as an opportunity. Every inbox matters.
    Mr. CULP. Absolutely.
    Mr. STAUBER. You know, that is going to be so important 
that we do this in a bipartisan fashion.
    So I see my time is up. Mr. Chair, thanks for holding this 
hearing. It is extremely important that we hear from the 
business men and women that have the boots on the ground. And I 
yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Thanedar from the great 
state of Michigan for 5 minutes.
    Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I want to thank you 
and the Ranking Member for all this very, very meaningful 
discussions and the witnesses who are here helping.
    You know, being an entrepreneur myself, having run small 
businesses, knowing the struggles small business owners have in 
terms of running their businesses, making payroll every 2 
weeks, these discussions are very, very vital. And Chairman, I 
appreciate your leadership and the bipartisan nature by which 
we are really doing our best to help small businesses.
    Ms. Cassaday, in your testimony you discuss the struggles 
your business had during the COVID pandemic. Ms. Cassaday, I 
see that during the pandemic Byrd's Pecan Delight received a 
PPP loan and EIDL loan; is that right?
    Ms. CASSADAY. That is correct.
    Mr. THANEDAR. How important was this assistance from the 
federal government to the survival and recovery of your 
business? If you can help me understand.
    Ms. CASSADAY. Sure. It was very vital because, you know, 
when we shut down, rural areas, I mean, we were told that we 
had to go curbside as a restaurant. Well, when you are in a 
rural area that was very limited. And so without that 
assistance I would not have been able to keep my doors open.
    Mr. THANEDAR. Now, do you think there are enough programs 
and resources are there to serve everyone who needs such help?
    Ms. CASSADAY. Not in the rural areas. I do not think that 
the other rural businesses are even aware of anything that SBA 
has to offer or, you know, they do not get to take these 
classes on marketing or get to understand what all the 
different loans are that are available because in SBA, I mean, 
the resources for rural areas, it just is not there.
    Mr. THANEDAR. And you know, listening to you all, I see 
that worker shortages are adversely impacting rural America as 
mentioned by you. Finding a reliable and skilled workforce is 
essential to rural entrepreneurship, especially in growing 
profits and unleashing innovation.
    Mr. Splitter, my question to you is do you think reforming 
our immigration system can help you attract workers in rural 
communities, especially streamlining the visa process for 
seasonal workers here on H2A or H2B visas?
    Mr. SPLITTER. I cannot speak too much about that. 
Currently, we utilize all local employees. We have been very 
fortunate to be able to find skilled and quality employees 
locally. But I think the H2A program, bringing in helpers, 
seasonal helpers, is something that we will be looking at very 
closely into the future. So anything to streamline it would be 
helpful.
    Mr. THANEDAR. While access to capital continues to hinder 
small businesses across our country, in rural or in urban 
areas, many of the small businesses in my district struggle 
with finding capital to grow their business or establish new 
small businesses. As a result, finding a solution to this 
problem is something we all share on this Committee.
    Mr. Culp, what can the federal government do in conjunction 
with local entities to provide more access to capital in the 
form of loans and grants to small business owners?
    Mr. CULP. Well, and besides just small business owners you 
have small farmers and small agricultural businesses. So the 
farm credit system obviously is a function of the federal 
government. Very effective to getting those dollars, those 
capital dollars out. I utilize that service and purchases that 
I have made as well. I think it is important that when you look 
at young entrepreneurs beginning, it is very important that 
they have access to capital because they do not have the assets 
always to back them up. I know we used in our county, we looked 
at using ARPA dollars to start a revolving loan fund for small 
startup businesses in our community. And it was met with a lot 
of support and enthusiasm. We are not talking about a big 
industry being built. Sometimes you just need a few thousand 
dollars or $10,000 to get somebody jumpstarted and then over 
time you could have a low interest payback. We set that up 
working with local financial institutions. And those are the 
type of programs I think that you need to institute. But a lot 
of those can even be done locally, not at the federal level.
    Mr. THANEDAR. Thank you.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Alford from the great state 
of Missouri for 5 minutes.
    Mr. ALFORD. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our 
witnesses for being here today. I know you come up here on your 
own dime and your own time and I really appreciate your 
investment in America.
    Rural small businesses know the needs of rural communities 
better. And when they succeed, our communities succeed, our 
states succeed, our nation succeeds. And I see firsthand. In 
Missouri's 4th Congressional District, and I am honored as 
Sharice Davids, my colleague from Kansas, to sit on both Ag and 
Small Business. We see how these tie together in this symbiotic 
relationship. We are working hard on the Farm Bill right now. 
It is so important to our rural communities. And sir, you 
mentioned rural broadband. We have got to get that right.
    The SBA also has an office of Rural Affairs but little 
information is available on what that office is doing and how 
it is focusing on rural small business. Five years ago, in 
April of 2018, the Department of Ag and Small Business 
Administration signed a memorandum of understanding to enhance 
collaboration. Ms. Bette Brand, former Deputy Under Secretary 
for Rural Development was not able to be here today because she 
was in a car accident. We are praying for her recovery. She 
wrote that the memorandum of understanding strength and 
coordination between USD and SBA but we do not know what came 
of it.
    So this leads into my questions. One of my favorite 
questions of all time is Cool Hand Luke. And one of the best 
lines is, ``What we have here is a failure to communicate.'' 
And I think that is what has happened.
    Ms. Cassaday, I was in your business a week ago. How many 
people did we have there, 40, 50 people?
    Ms. CASSADAY. There was, yeah, probably every bit of 45 to 
50.
    Mr. ALFORD. A lot of them small business owners. And they 
were asking, how do we get help?
    Have you interacted with anyone from the Office of Rural 
Affairs for the Small Business Administration?
    Ms. CASSADAY. I do not know about the Rural Affairs. We do 
have a location that is located about 1-1/2 hours away from us 
and she said that she did have some resources that could help 
us.
    Mr. ALFORD. That is in Appleton City, the lady?
    Ms. CASSADAY. Well, this one is out of Sedalia, actually. I 
had a nice long discussion with her but she said that her 
funding is so tight that she has a hard time getting out and 
even letting people know about the information in the rural 
areas.
    Mr. ALFORD. I think one of the common themes there from 
what I heard and what you were hearing as well is people just 
did not know where to turn to for help.
    Ms. CASSADAY. That is correct.
    Mr. ALFORD. How do they access the information, the 
encouragement, and the money? Is that what you heard?
    Ms. CASSADAY. That is absolutely what I heard. Yeah.
    Mr. ALFORD. Mr. Culp, have you had any interaction with the 
Small Business Administration's Office of Rural Affairs?
    Mr. CULP. I have not. I did not even know that existed, 
actually. Yeah.
    Mr. ALFORD. What we have here is a failure to communicate.
    How about you, Mr. Splitter?
    Mr. SPLITTER. No, I have not.
    Mr. ALFORD. How about you, Mr. Phillips?
    Mr. PHILLIPS. In terms of Rural Affairs I was not aware.
    Mr. ALFORD. Well, we have got to fix that. We have got to 
figure out what is going on. And we are going to be working on 
that. Next month I will be introducing a Small Business 
Administration Rule Performance Report Act. This bill will 
require two reports actually. One will be a report from the SBA 
on the activities of the Office of Rural Affairs. We are going 
to give it another try to see if we can get this information. 
And the second report is going to be on what was accomplished 
under the memorandum of understanding. I actually pronounced it 
correctly this time.
    Ms. Cassaday, in your written testimony you talked about 
some of the unique challenges you face--rural deliveries and 
procuring supplies, having to drive to Kansas City, it takes 
you all day. What are some of the other challenges that you are 
facing? Because it is you and your husband. I forget how many 
employees you have but----
    Ms. CASSADAY. I have 11.
    Mr. ALFORD. Eleven employees. This is a great business. How 
are you keeping it together in Adrian, Missouri with the 
challenges that you face?
    Ms. CASSADAY. Well, some days not very well and other days 
we fare better.
    I will tell you that our biggest issue is the inflation and 
the cost of supplies. The amount o of money that goes out is my 
supplies is my biggest one. My payroll is my next bill that I 
pay. They are the two highest things that I am dealing with in 
my business.
    Mr. ALFORD. Well, I hear that from farmers who are small 
business owners, and small business owners like yourself, it is 
food, fuel, and fertilizer for our district. And I blame Joe 
Biden for that. For demonizing fossil fuels, targeting the 
fossil fuel industry, but putting the crosshairs on the backs 
of the American people. He has done it. He owns it. We are 
going to have to make some changes. We have got to get back to 
reducing inflation and making businesses more profitable, 
increasing our communication between the SBA, and that is our 
job here to make that happen.
    Thank you, and I yield back.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. I now recognize Representative Molinaro 
from the great state of New York for 5 minutes.
    Mr. MOLINARO. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I appreciate not 
only the hearing but the witnesses today.
    It is without question certainly that small businesses like 
yours, but of course all across this country, have been dealing 
with the frontline of great burden, whether it is the high cost 
of fuel and electric, inflation, taxes, and labor shortages, 
there is little question that all of you just really cannot 
catch a break. But you continue to thrive and that is 
important.
    It is true not only where you are from but where I am from 
in New York, I know it is hard to believe but there are rural 
parts of the state of New York. A lot of rural parts of the 
state of New York, and I represent 11 counties that are both 
small cities and mostly rural communities.
    In my district, for instance, the average family farm or 
average farm is less than 200 acres and farmers are already 
dealing with excessively high input costs, labor costs, and in 
New York, sadly electric and tax costs. Add to that the rising 
cost of diesel and fertilizer and we know agriculture is really 
being pounded.
    Mr. Splitter, I wanted to jump right in on some of what you 
have spoken about. I know that you understand all too well the 
challenges that family farms face. You talked a little bit 
about that already under our current economic environment. In 
your testimony you specifically talked about the difficulties 
associated with accessing the farm loan programs and some other 
USDA resources.
    In your perspective, so we spent a lot of time asking you 
generically what are the things that are important to you. What 
can we do? What can this Committee do to ensure family farms, 
businesses like your own are connected to those resources? I 
think you mentioned, maybe it was Ms. Cassaday that said we do 
not even know some of these services that exist. What is the 
thing this Committee can do to really impress upon SBA to be 
more accessible to all of you?
    Mr. SPLITTER. I think just going back to that, I did not 
know that there was access to any kind of help or assistance 
from SBA for farming, for agriculture. Of course, we know about 
FSA and USDA and those resources but there was no education to 
us or anything out there that would lead me to believe that SBA 
was there to help with the agriculture sector.
    Mr. MOLINARO. We appreciate that. I think we hear that 
consistently. The SBA is a smaller entity in the federal 
government but more outreach and more connection with small 
business is critically important. If not that also obviously 
guarding taxpayer dollars to make sure they get to you and not 
to those who seek to defraud the American taxpayer as we 
learned more and more about last week.
    You all have talked a little bit about access to high speed 
internet. I always like to say high speed internet as opposed 
to broadband because there are multiple ways to move high speed 
internet to communities like the ones you live in and work in 
and the ones I represent.
    I am proud of serve on the House Agriculture Committee. 
This is obviously a major topic of conversation as we tackle 
the Farm Bill and we are hopeful that we can continue to 
broaden access.
    Mr. Culp, in your testimony you mentioned how access to 
reliable internet, of course, is a must for small businesses, 
not only to thrive and survive but to access new opportunities. 
So we can all agree on that. The question generally is how do 
we do that? I am proud to sponsor and have introduced the 
Reconnecting Rural America Act to ensure rural and 
technologically underserved communities have access to reliable 
broadband and high speed internet services.
    But building off the investment of the last infrastructure 
bill, what else can we do? I heard one of my colleagues talk 
about NEPA as an obstacle which it is. I know in communities 
like my own, providers speak to the high cost of the ready cost 
to get poles installed. In states like New York, whatever 
regulation the federal government has, New York likes to heap 
on about 10 times more than that. What other steps can we take 
to broaden access of high speed internet?
    Mr. CULP. Well, fortunately, I am from a state that has 
really reduced regulation in Indiana but----
    Mr. MOLINARO. Well, they must be sending it to us.
    Mr. CULP. Even at the local level, and this is the 
partnership I talked about earlier, we granted all of our 
county road rights-of-way, we granted access to our local 
provider to access and to use our rights-of-way to either hang 
lines or to bury lines in that with no permitting, no cost at 
all. That was something that actually we even started a program 
where basically all of that cost, all of that investment is 
abated. So that is all taxable property for the local 
government. We abated that because we wanted to encourage them, 
everything they can do to get that in because whether it is a 
farm or local, or a small business, you think about, as 
isolated as some of our rural communities are, the way that 
they are going to sell their product is to advertise that on 
the web. They have to have a website. They have to get that 
information out so people have to access that instead of what 
used to be we just had our local residents, did business with 
them and supported them. We have to think bigger, and to do 
that we have to have that broadband and that far-reaching 
internet access.
    Mr. MOLINARO. I appreciate it. My time is up.
    Mr. Chairman, I just would echo one of my colleagues. 
Access to high speed internet is sort of the last frontier if 
you will that should be accessible to small businesses and 
farms and we have got to do more to make sure that happens. 
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. Gentleman yields back.
    I now recognize Representative Ellzey from the great state 
of Texas for 5 minutes.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding this very 
important hearing, and to all of you for spending your own time 
and treasure to come up here.
    You know, this is an interesting town. I think that is 
being pretty generous. As we are having this very important 
hearing on the fundamentals of what you do in your businesses 
to provide the foundation of life in this country which is 
food, there are very few people here paying attention to this 
hearing. But there is a line wrapped around the block 
downstairs talking about UFOs, which at the end of the day is 
not going to feed the population of this country or of the rest 
of the world. In a time we have got Russia going back on a deal 
on Ukraine, 40 percent of the world's wheat coming from the 
Ukraine, they are going back on a deal to provide food for the 
rest of the world, it is exceedingly important that the bread 
basket of the United States and you all small business owners 
and farmers are able to do your job the best you can to unleash 
the economy of this nation and feed the rest of the world.
    I come from the 6th District of Texas, which is growing 
increasingly rural, a lot of farmers and ranchers and business 
folks just like you all. And just like you all, they do not 
talk a whole lot. You cannot have a business like yours and not 
have common sense or efficiencies in order to make a living to 
provide for your families and for your communities. So as I 
listen to you all, and it is interesting to hear how we talk at 
length because we are elected to do so, you all have very spare 
words that you use to describe what you do. And that, I think, 
represents how important it is. You do not have time to mess 
around with flowery words and things like that. You have got a 
job to do. So thank you for coming up here and doing your jobs.
    So part of the problem of what exists up in this town is 
agencies that do not exist to help you; they exist to provide 
jobs for people up here in Washington, D.C., who do not know 
come here from sic `em about what it is that you do.
    So we have heard increasingly in a number of hearings about 
the SBA having a noble cause but in reality the regulations 
that they follow do not help you do your jobs. And that is why 
we rely on small community banks and state agencies that will 
help you do your jobs, like in Network Kansas or the original 
capital access program in Texas.
    So I think that is really interesting. I would like to see 
more partnerships with the federal government and the SBA with 
the states who know their customers, which is you, to help you 
do your jobs. But when we talk about community banks based on 
big bank failures on the West Coast, banks too big to fail, we 
are going to use a sledge hammer to affect all the banks in the 
country, most notably the community banks which keep your 
businesses afloat. So there is a mismatch in common sense and 
efficiencies from up here in what you do.
    So in the 2-1/2 minutes I would have left, Representative 
Culp, I would like to ask you a question. And if you are not 
ready yet that is just fine and I will go down the road.
    What is one thing that you would do, since you are a state 
rep, what is one thing you would like to see the SBA or the 
federal government do to make your job easier to provide a 
living and food for the people that you support?
    Mr. CULP. To have a program that offers financial support 
for entrepreneurial businesses, small businesses, to make sure 
that they can continue to operate in their community.
    Mr. ELLZEY. So does that mean less red tape?
    Mr. CULP. It would be less red tape and easier access to 
that financial support.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Thank you.
    Ms. Cassaday?
    Ms. CASSADAY. Yes. I think that just getting the 
information out there to the rural areas. You know, I have 
learned over the last couple of weeks that SBA can offer 
classes on marketing and helping businesses with their budgets 
and they can do these different things but nobody in my town 
that I came across was aware that this even existed or was even 
a possibility. And I am being told that by funding that, the 
offices that we could reach out to, they do not have the time 
or the resources to come out to our rural areas unless we 
invite them out. But how are we going to invite them if we do 
not even know they exist?
    Mr. ELLZEY. Got it. And I hear the same thing from my 
veteran friends about the VA.
    One thing I would like to note, as we talk about broadband, 
in my district we do not even have cellular. We do not have 
LTE. We do not have 5Gs. In some places it is completely 
sparse, much less broadband. So we need to improve our 
capabilities to even get cellular out in my district.
    So Mr. Splitter, same question to you.
    Mr. SPLITTER. Get help to those who need it. I mean, when 
we were desperate for help it was not there. The other thing I 
think Washington can do is get out of my way. Let me do my job. 
You know, let me provide the safest, the most secure, the most 
bountiful food supply that this world can see.
    Mr. ELLZEY. Well, Mr. Phillips, I was going to ask you the 
question. I am about out of time and I think Mr. Splitter hit 
that nail on the head.
    Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you for your time.
    Chairman WILLIAMS. The gentleman yields back.
    And I want to say to all of you thank you for being here. I 
would like to just say a couple of things. I think one thing I 
hope you recognized with this Committee, you do not see it on 
TV when you watch Washington but I think you can see there are 
things we agree on, that these hearings can be bipartisan. And 
I think this has shown that today that we are all interested 
and many of us who sit up here are doing a lot of what you are 
trying to do and make things happen.
    I made some notes. D.C. You know, I always tell people D.C. 
can create a job but it cannot create net worth. And that is 
what we do as small business owners and you all do. We need to 
streamline the SBA. We need fewer regulations. We need to bring 
inflation down. We know to do that. Bring costs down. Broadband 
we talked about. We need to hire a workforce so we can get the 
job done. And we need access to capital. I mean, that is 
everything we agree with on this and we are going to do 
everything we can to make it happen.
    So I would like to thank all of you today for being here, 
for your testimony, and for appearing today. We know, as said 
earlier, you came on your own time and it is hard to be away 
from your business. I would tell you my phone has been ringing 
right now. My daughter is back home wanting to talk to me about 
my business. So being away is a big deal.
    Without objection, Members have 5 legislative days to 
submit additional materials and written questions for the 
witnesses to the Chair which will be forwarded to the 
witnesses. And I want to ask the witnesses if that happens to 
please respond promptly on that.
    So if there is no other further business, without 
objection, the Committee is adjourned. Thank you.
    [Whereupon, at 11:33 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]

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