[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS: PART III
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY,
SECURITY, AND ENFORCEMENT
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
TUESDAY, MAY 23, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-22
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via: http://judiciary.house.gov
__________
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
52-461 WASHINGTON : 2023
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
JIM JORDAN, Ohio, Chair
DARRELL ISSA, California JERROLD NADLER, New York, Ranking
KEN BUCK, Colorado Member
MATT GAETZ, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California
MIKE JOHNSON, Louisiana SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona STEVE COHEN, Tennessee
TOM McCLINTOCK, California HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr.,
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin Georgia
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky ADAM SCHIFF, California
CHIP ROY, Texas DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
DAN BISHOP, North Carolina ERIC SWALWELL, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana TED LIEU, California
SCOTT FITZGERALD, Wisconsin PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington
CLIFF BENTZ, Oregon J. LUIS CORREA, California
BEN CLINE, Virginia MARY GAY SCANLON, Pennsylvania
LANCE GOODEN, Texas JOE NEGUSE, Colorado
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey LUCY McBATH, Georgia
TROY NEHLS, Texas MADELEINE DEAN, Pennsylvania
BARRY MOORE, Alabama VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
KEVIN KILEY, California DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
HARRIET HAGEMAN, Wyoming CORI BUSH, Missouri
NATHANIEL MORAN, Texas GLENN IVEY, Maryland
LAUREL LEE, Florida
WESLEY HUNT, Texas
RUSSELL FRY, South Carolina
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION INTEGRITY, SECURITY,
AND ENFORCEMENT
TOM McCLINTOCK, California, Chair
KEN BUCK, Colorado PRAMILA JAYAPAL, Washington,
ANDY BIGGS, Arizona Ranking Member
TOM TIFFANY, Wisconsin ZOE LOFGREN, California
CHIP ROY, Texas J. LUIS CORREA, California
VICTORIA SPARTZ, Indiana VERONICA ESCOBAR, Texas
JEFF VAN DREW, New Jersey SHEILA JACKSON LEE, Texas
TROY NEHLS, Texas DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
BARRY MOORE, Alabama DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
WESLEY HUNT, Texas ERIC SWALWELL, California
CHRISTOPHER HIXON, Majority Staff Director
AMY RUTKIN, Minority Staff Director & Chief of Staff
C O N T E N T S
----------
Tuesday, May 23, 2023
Page
OPENING STATEMENTS
The Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of California.................................................. 1
The Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee
on Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the
State of Washington............................................ 3
The Honorable Jim Jordan, Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary
from the State of Ohio......................................... 5
The Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the Committee on
the Judiciary from the State of New York....................... 6
WITNESSES
Chief Rodney Scott, Distinguished Senior Fellow for Border
Security, Texas Public Policy Foundation
Oral Testimony................................................. 9
Prepared Testimony............................................. 12
Mark Hetfield, CEO, HIAS
Oral Testimony................................................. 15
Prepared Testimony............................................. 17
Teresa Kenny, Supervisor, Town of Orangetown, New York
Oral Testimony................................................. 32
Prepared Testimony............................................. 35
Tammy Nobles, Realtor, Norfolk, Virginia
Oral Testimony................................................. 42
Prepared Testimony............................................. 44
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC. SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
All materials submitted for the record by the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement are listed
below.......................................................... 72
Slides showing Tweets from different House Republicans, submitted
by the Honorable Jerrold Nadler, Ranking Member of the
Committee on the Judiciary from the State of New York, for the
record
An article entitled, ``What Everyone--Except the U.S.--Has
Learned About Immigration. Washington remains divided over
allowing more foreign workers while global rivals lower
barriers to ease persistent labor shortages,'' May 16, 2023,
Wall Street Journal, submitted by the Honorable J. Luis Correa,
a Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity,
Security, and Enforcement from the State of California, for the
record
Materials submitted by the Honorable Pramila Jayapal, Ranking
Member of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement from the State of Washington, for the record
Statement from the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies (CGRS)
Statement from the Church World Service (CWS)
Statement from the National Immigration Forum
Materials submitted by the Honorable Andy Biggs, a Member of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Arizona, for the record
An article entitled, ``Biden's back door bid to open the door
to legalize migrants,'' Apr. 24, 2023, The New York Times
An article entitled, ``Border crossings down, but many
migrants released to U.S. to ease crowding,'' May 19,
2023, Washington Post
An article entitled, ``WATCH: Human Smuggler Drops Preschool-
Age Child Over California Border Wall,'' May 23, 2023,
Breitbart
An article entitled, ``WATCH: Georgia Democrat Slams Party
for Favoring Migrants Over Americans,'' May 23, 2023,
Breitbart
Materials submitted by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member
of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
An article entitled, ``Biden admin to send 1,500 troops to
southern border for support roles ahead of expected
migrant surge,'' May, 2, 2023, CNN
Statement from the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of
the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Texas
An email regarding HHS Case File, submitted by the Honorable
Pramila Jayapal, Ranking Member of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of Washington, for the record
APPENDIX
An article entitled, ``How the Biden Administration Plans to Deal
With the Looming Border Crisis,'' May 10, 2023, TIME, submitted
by the Honorable Sheila Jackson Lee, a Member of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement from the State of Texas, for the record
QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES FOR THE RECORD
Questions for Chief Rodney Scott, submitted by the Honorable Tom
McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity,
Security, and Enforcement from the State of California, for the
record
Response from Chief Rodney Scott to the questions submitted by
the Honorable Tom McClintock, Chair of the Subcommittee on
Immigration Integrity, Security, and Enforcement from the State
of California, for the record
THE BIDEN BORDER CRISIS: PART III
----------
Tuesday, May 23, 2023
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security,
and Enforcement
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:04 a.m., in
Room 2141, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Tom McClintock
[Chair of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Members present: Representatives McClintock, Jordan, Buck,
Biggs, Tiffany, Roy, Van Drew, Nehls, Moore, Hunt, Jayapal,
Nadler, Correa, Jackson Lee, Ross, and Swalwell.
Also present: Representative Lawler.
Mr. McClintock. The Immigration Subcommittee of the House
Judiciary Committee will come to order. A quorum is present.
The Chair asks unanimous consent that Mr. Lawler of New York be
seated on the Subcommittee for the Hearing. Is there any
objection?
Hearing none, Mr. Lawler, welcome to this Subcommittee.
The Immigration Subcommittee meets today to hear testimony
on the effect of the ongoing border crisis that began on
Inauguration Day of 2021.
We have four witnesses with us today who are going to
testify to the effects that this is having on the social
services of our cities as well as the tragedies that it is
causing for our citizens.
With that we will begin with--our first witness is Chief
Rodney Scott, formerly the Chief of the Border Patrol of the
United States.
Mr. Scott, we welcome you to the hearing today and
recognize you.
Oh, I am sorry, we are going to do--start with--see that is
what happens when I go script-less. I will actually begin with
opening statements, and I will begin with myself.
When President Biden canceled construction of the border
wall and ordered ICE not to enforce court-ordered deportations,
we have seen 2.1 million illegal immigrants unlawfully admitted
to the United States by this administration. That is a
population larger than the entire State of Nebraska.
While that has been going on an additional 1.5 million
known got-aways have entered while the Border Patrol has been
overwhelmed. That is in additional illegal population larger
than the State of Hawaii. Combined that is 3.6 million illegal
migrants admitted to our country. That is larger than the
population of 20 of our States. That is just in 28 months.
The danger of this policy should be self-evident. When the
President surrendered unconditionally to the Taliban and
abandoned Bagram Air Base in the middle of the night, he
released 5,000 of the most dangerous terrorists on the planet
who were detained there. We know where one went. Ten days later
he went to Abbey Gate at Kabul Airport and detonated the bomb
that killed 13 U.S. Marines. We know that nearly 200
individuals on the Terrorist Watchlist were apprehended by the
Border Patrol in 2022 and 2023, compared to just 14 in all four
years of the Trump Administration combined. What we don't know
is how many more are among the 1.5 million known got-aways.
Now, HHS Secretary Xavier Becerra told his staff that he
demanded a rapid release of illegal migrants into the country.
He compared it to an assembly line, and he warned subordinates
that if they didn't move faster, he would find others who
would. The lack of any serious vetting of those entering our
country is producing tragic results for families like that of
Kayla Hamilton whose grieving mother we will hear from today.
In her case a 17-year-old MS-13 gang member was released into
the United States as an unaccompanied alien child. Kayla
Hamilton is dead as a result.
Police investigating her murder noticed her assailant had
gang tattoos. One call to El Salvadoran authorities confirmed
he was a known MS-13 gang member, something Federal officials
never bothered to ask as they recklessly allowed him to enter
the United States.
Drug trafficking now produces an average of 200 fentanyl
deaths in the United States every day, the equivalent of a
passenger jet crashing every day. Just a few days of such
carnage would ground every aircraft in America.
We are told that human trafficking is now becoming an even
more profitable business to the cartels than drugs. Illegal
migrants arrive deeply in debt to the cartels whose violent
gangs are proliferating in our cities to enforce these debts.
In places like Tulare County, California, just outside of my
district, we are starting to see cartel executions of entire
families including in this case a mom shot through the head as
she shielded her baby.
Every Border Patrol officer says the same thing: This is no
longer a border problem. If it hasn't already come to your
community, it soon will. I am afraid this culminate either in a
terrorist attack by elements that have come in through our
border or the kind of cartel gun battles breaking out in cities
that have already become commonplace in Mexico.
Now, this is not to paint every illegal migrant as a gang
member or terrorist, but the Biden open borders policy is
clearly allowing many dangerous gang members, terrorists, and
criminals into our country, and he doesn't seem to care about
the resulting damage.
Meanwhile, the social safety net meant to help Americans in
need is collapsing under the weight of millions of desperate,
destitute, and dependent illegal migrants who are flooding our
country.
New York City has now turned as many as 20 public school
gymnasiums into hotels for illegal aliens. Recess is canceled
because single adult men are sleeping on cots in gyms intended
for school children.
We have heard from food pantries whose supplies are
exhausted because of the explosion of illegal migrants. We have
heard from hospital administrators at the border who have had
to tell American citizens that they have no room for them
because they are overwhelmed by migrants. We hear from law
enforcement of the increasing presence of criminal cartels and
foreign gangs in their communities.
Yet, the Democrats' witness is going to tell us a solution:
Simply spend more money and process illegal migrants faster.
This is lunacy.
It is a crime to illegally enter the United States. Federal
law requires every asylum claimant to be detained until their
case is heard and to be deported if it is rejected, but this
administration simply ignores the law.
Now, these first hearings have examined the effect of these
policies. Over the next few weeks, we will turn our attention
to the cause: What laws are being violated and by whom?
With that I am pleased to recognize the Ranking Member of
the Subcommittee, Ms. Jayapal, for five minutes.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to start just by taking a moment to express my
deepest condolences to you, Ms. Nobles. You have experienced a
profound loss and I appreciate your coming to share Kayla's
story with us today.
Turning to today's hearing, it appears once again
unfortunately that it is Groundhog Day in our Subcommittee.
Today is Part 3 of our hearings on the Republicans' assault on
immigrants and immigration, and I am sure we will have many
more parts to come.
I worry that today will be more of the same with my
Republican colleagues once again showing us that they are not
serious about governing and finding solutions to the complex
issue of immigration. After passing their extreme, cruel, and
unworkable border bill, where the only bipartisan thing about
it was the opposition, Republicans have spent the last few
weeks fearmongering over the end of Title 42.
This fearmongering about the border, let me be clear,
empowers the smugglers and cartels when our Republican
colleagues claim that the border is open. That is the most
important information that they use to continue their
activities. Turns into disinformation and misinformation shared
by smugglers, distributed by social media, and stoked by
relentless right-wing media lies and shouts of open borders,
all which fuel migration patterns.
Yet, what are the facts? The facts are that when Title 42,
a public health policy, not an immigration enforcement policy,
finally ended, what happened? Border encounters plummeted by 70
percent. Thus far, the increased migration narrative pushed in
the right-wing media has not yet come.
The lower numbers are likely due, at least in part, to the
Biden Administration's new policies announced in the lead-up to
the end of Title 42. These announcements detailed how they plan
to address migration to the southwest border going forward. The
administration showed that once again Democrats have real
workable solutions to manage migration and expand legal
pathways.
On top of the parole programs created by the Biden
Administration earlier, this year the administration announced
the creation of additional legal pathways that are intended to
relieve pressure at the border. The administration announced
that they are opening regional processing centers across the
Western Hemisphere for the first time to facilitate access to
legal pathways in the United States. This is an important step
to allow migrants to get their protection and benefits claims
assessed in a humane way without having to make the dangerous
journey to the U.S.-Mexico border.
The administration is also creating new family
reunification parole processes for El Salvador, Guatemala,
Honduras, and Colombia. This is for people who already have an
approved family petition modeled off the Cuban Family
Reunification Program my colleagues attempted to codify in H.R.
2.
The administration is also increasing the number of
appointments that will be available under the CBP One app,
which while far from perfect, does increase CBP One's ability
to process more migrants.
The administration also implemented new policies that I do
have significant concerns about. This includes a new asylum
regulation that limits access to asylum for those who cross
between ports of entry as well as new expedited processing of
single adults from Spanish-speaking countries where individuals
will get an initial asylum screening in a Border Patrol
facility.
Now, none of these solutions are perfect. Addressing the
issue of migration is difficult, but Democrats have shown time
and time again that we take this complex humanitarian crisis
seriously. By creating a more human immigration system that
recognizes the horrific conditions that cause migrants to flee
as well as contributions of immigrants to America we can
decrease unauthorized crossings, strengthen our economy, and
protect migrants and citizens from harm.
Unfortunately, Republicans have shown us their priorities
with their border bill and now with their Fiscal Year 2024
Department of Homeland Security appropriations bill. That bill
would only create more disorder at the border. Budgets are
moral documents that show what we value and prioritize.
Their bill, which was released last week, defunds the
Emergency Food and Shelter Program which is helping migrants
who are processed by CBP move away from the border to be with
sponsors or family in the United States as they await their
court hearing.
Their bill ends the use of the Family Case Management
Program which had a nearly 100-percent success rate in helping
families show up for their immigration court hearings. It
disallows the use of alternatives to detention unless the
secretary himself directly approves it, which would create a
significant bottleneck for moving people out of CBP custody.
It defends the Asylum Officer Rule, which allows asylum
officers to adjudicate asylum claims, helps alleviate the
growing immigration court backlog, and it ends the use of the
CBP app for people who are coming through parole, which will
severely hamper CBP's ability to process migrants in a safe and
orderly way.
Now, all these policy choices give the game away. None of
these policy choices are intended to help the agency. They will
create more chaos and disorder at the border. That appears to
be the point of my Republican colleagues' efforts. Create chaos
and disorder and hope, hope to win the next election.
Now, if the Chair of the Subcommittee is so concerned about
airplanes being grounded, I would just say that the Default on
America Act and the attempts that Republicans are making right
now to put forward serious cuts--that default would actually
halt all the air traffic controllers across the country.
I look forward to hearing from all our witnesses today. The
American people deserve better, and I hope that our witnesses
can shed light on real solutions to address the situation at
our border in a holistic way.
With that, I yield back, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes the Chair of the House Judiciary
Committee, Mr. Jordan.
Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair.
The Ranking Member started her statement by saying the
border is secure. Really?
Ms. Jayapal. I did not.
Chair Jordan. More than 52 million illegal aliens along the
southwest border has been encountered since Joe Biden took
office, two million of these illegal aliens have been released
into American communities, and more than 12 million known
illegal got-aways have successfully crossed the southwest
border undetected. These include criminal gang members, drug
dealers, and individuals on the Terrorist Watchlist. That is
not a secure border. That is not a closed border.
Ms. Jayapal. I never said that--I never started my
statement with a--
Chair Jordan. That is--
Ms. Jayapal. --secure border, Mr. Chair.
Chair Jordan. That has happened because on day one--
Ms. Jayapal. I am just--
Mr. McClintock. The time--
Ms. Jayapal. I am correcting the record, because you stated
something that was not true. Thank you, Mr.--
Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady should know that
interrupting a Member without making a valid point of order is
against the rules of the Committee.
Ms. Jayapal. Not if they lie about what I said.
Chair Jordan. The time belongs to the Chair. The Chair is
recognized.
Chair Jordan. I would just point out the gentlelady said
Republicans say the border is open. She said that is not so.
So, what does that mean if it is open? So, is it something that
is not secure, not closed? I would just say what she referenced
in her opening statement. Day one of this administration they
stopped construction of the wall, they ended Remain in Mexico,
and they put back in place Catch and Release. Day one. That is
why we have the situation we do.
In that same period, I just talked about 28 months of this
administration over 43,000 pounds of fentanyl have been seized
at the southwest border with an unknown amount making it into
our communities. There has also been an uptick in the number of
individuals on the FBI Terrorist Watchlist.
Just two weeks ago Border Patrol apprehended an Afghan who
illegally crossed into San Diego Sector in California and days
later news reports indicate that an additional five watchlisted
illegal aliens were apprehended in Tucson, Arizona after
attempting to avoid detection.
Our witnesses today understand the consequences of our
borders being unprotected all too well, all of them, and I want
to thank them for being here today.
I want to particularly thank Ms. Nobles for bravely
agreeing to appear here today to talk about the unthinkable
tragedy that affected her family. Her daughter Kayla was 20
years old when she was assaulted and murdered. The person
charged with the crime was an MS-13 gang member who was allowed
to enter the United States after crossing the border illegally
as a so-called unaccompanied alien child.
Despite the UAC having a criminal history in El Salvador
for MS-13 gang affiliation well before he even entered the
United States, law enforcement only became aware of this fact
after Kayla's murder. Why not until after Kayla's murder?
Because prior to the murder no one in this administration
bothered to check into the UAC's criminal history in his home
country. The Hamilton family was not alone this year in
experiencing such a horrific event.
In January suspected cartel members massacred six people,
including a 10-month-old infant, assassination style in Goshen,
California. In April of this year a nationwide manhunt ensued
after a man who had been deported on four separate occasions
killed five people including a nine-year-old boy.
It is well past time that we enforce the law, secure our
border, and we should pass--the Senate should pass the bill
that we passed in the House just a few weeks ago, so we can get
our border under control and secure.
With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member
of the House Judiciary Committee, Mr. Nadler.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I first wish to express my most sincere condolences to Ms.
Nobles. I am so sorry for your loss, and I thank you for coming
to tell us Kayla's story. May her memory be a blessing.
Mr. Chair, the United States has a long history of
welcoming asylum seekers to our shores. Our constituents in
Manhattan are able to see a reminder of this history every day
in the Statue of Liberty welcoming the tired, the poor, and
huddled masses yearning to breathe free.
Throughout our history refugees from near and far have
sought safety here. While our laws have never been perfect,
they have always allowed at least some refugees to enter.
Our modern refugee program and the world's view about our
collective responsibility for refugees were radically reshaped
by the Holocaust. When the United States joined both Canada and
Cuba in turning away the MS St. Louis and her than 900 Jewish
passengers in 1939, we allowed asylum seekers to be returned to
persecution in Europe. Nearly \1/3\ of the boat's passengers
perished at the hands of the Nazis.
Many other countries also turned away Jewish refugees
during World War II. The horrors that followed led to the
creation of the United Nations and ultimately to the
international refugee framework that we still use today. It
took a while for domestic laws to catch up to our international
commitments, so when Congress moved too slowly presidents used
their expansive immigration powers to help get people to
safety.
In 1956, President Eisenhower oversaw the parole of over
30,000 Hungarian refugees into the United States. More parolees
followed including more than 58,000 Cubans between 1961-1962,
15,000 Chinese refugees from Hong Kong between 1962-1966, and
over 130,000 Southeast Asian refugees following the fall of
Saigon in 1975.
We passed the Refugee Act of 1980 with overwhelming
bipartisan support which established the domestic framework for
refugee and asylee processing. The commitment by resident--by
presidents and lawmakers of both parties to accept refugees
solidifies--solidified our country's status as a symbol of hope
for those trying to escape persecution.
Sadly, that came to a crashing halt under the Trump
Administration. Former President Trump slashed our refugee
program both at home and abroad, implemented discriminatory
bans, demonized immigrants, separated families, and put all his
focus into building a wall between ourselves and Mexico.
Still people came because the dangers they faced on their
journeys here paled in comparison to the horrors from which
they were fleeing. COVID exacerbated the problems and President
Trump used authorities under Title 42, a policy to protect
public health, to turn away asylum seekers arriving at the
border.
When President Biden came into office, he reversed course
on many of the prior administration's most heinous policies,
but Title 42 remained, even while our Republican colleagues
claimed that the border was open and that President Biden and
Secretary Mayorkas were purposefully inviting an ``invasion,''
in quotes, ``of migrants to our shores.''
These claims were used by smugglers to entice migrants to
make the journey North and echoed by mass shooters in their
manifestos.
The Biden Administration has been working to get our
immigration system back on track, but Republicans have been
fighting him every step of the way. They voted to end the COVID
emergency declaration, but they said that the administration
should not end its use of Title 42 even though that policy was
tied to the pandemic. They passed a messaging bill over
bipartisan opposition that would decimate our asylum system and
send vulnerable people back into harm's way.
In the weeks leading up to Title 42's expiration they
stoked fears that we would see chaos and massive numbers of
migrants crossing at the border. Yet, what happened? Thanks to
the policies put in place by the Biden Administration the
numbers at the border dropped by 70 percent following the
expiration of Title 42, but the fearmongering continues.
Unfortunately, my colleagues are not ones to let facts get
in the way of a good story. The latest example comes from my
home State of New York where Orange County Republicans claimed
that homeless veterans were being displaced by migrants. This
was quickly echoed by the Speaker of the House and other
Congressional Republicans, and even by one of our witnesses.
On the screen are tweet after tweet by my Republican
colleagues amplifying this story to stoke fears about the
border and to distract from their own failures to enact
meaningful solutions, yet the claims contained in the story
have turned out to be completely unfounded with even the New
York Post running a retraction.
So, here we are again in another hearing about the, ``Biden
border crisis.'' I am sure that no matter what happens at the
border we will continue to have hearings on this topic, and we
will continue to see partisan messaging bills that have no
chance of ever becoming law.
As one of my Republican colleagues said, there is a reason
why we haven't gotten significant border security done and why
we haven't seen significant immigration reform done. It is in
the interests of many politicians to have this crisis continue
to flare up.
Democrats are willing to work with serious Republicans to
make changes to our immigration system that would allow people
to come here lawfully while ensuring the safety and security of
our citizens. We want to have the tough conversations about the
best path forward and we have passed bipartisan legislation
that has addressed some of the thorniest issues like the Farm
Workforce Modernization Issues, but so long as this majority
insists on its partisan blame games, we are just going to keep
talking past each other and nothing will be solved.
I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today. Thank
you for coming to speak about your experience and your
expertise.
I yield back the balance of my time.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection, all other opening
statements will be included in the record.
Mr. McClintock. I will now introduce the four witnesses we
have today.
The first will be the Hon. Rodney Scott. Chief Scott served
over 29 years in the United States Border Patrol before
retiring as Chief of the Border Patrol in August 2021. During
that time, he held numerous leadership positions at various
stations and sectors along the South border, as well as several
leadership and specialized assignments at U.S. Customs and
Border Protection Headquarters.
Our second witness will be Mr. Mark Hetfield. Mr. Hetfield
has been the President and CEO of the Hebrew Immigration Aid
Society since 2013. Prior to that he held several other
positions at the Society, worked as an immigration attorney,
and worked for the Immigration and Naturalization Service. The
Hebrew Immigration Aid Society is a nongovernmental
organization that settles refugees and provides legal services
to aliens.
I will now yield to the gentleman from New York, Mr.
Lawler, to introduce the third witness.
Mr. Lawler. Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is my distinct
pleasure to introduce Orangetown Supervisor Teresa Kenny, a
lifelong Rockland County resident, who cares deeply for her
residents and their quality of life. Supervisor Kenny is an
attorney and daughter of a retired New York City police
officer. She has both a deep appreciation for the rule of law
and a deep knowledge of our legal system. Prior to serving as
Supervisor, she served as Deputy Town Attorney for the Town of
Orangetown and practiced real State law in private practice for
over 30 years. I can think of no one better to highlight the
gross overreach by Mayor Eric Adams and other officials in New
York attempting usurp local zoning laws than Teresa Kenny.
Any claim that our border is secure you need not look
further than New York where New York City has taken in over
65,000 migrants since this crisis exacerbated last year. The
Governor and the Mayor are asking for an emergency declaration.
They have nowhere else to house these migrants.
So, the idea that we do not have open borders is laughable
on its face. Couple that with New York's sanctuary city policy
and you have a recipe for disaster in New York City and it is
spilling out into communities across New York State. That is
why Teresa Kenny's testimony here today is invaluable to this
Committee.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Then we will finally hear from
Ms. Tammy Nobles. Ms. Nobles is a realtor from Norfolk,
Virginia. She volunteers part-time as the President of the
Downs Syndrome Association of Hampton Roads. She is the mother
of Kayla Hamilton.
We welcome our witnesses. We thank them for appearing today
and we will begin by swearing you in. Would you please rise and
raise your right hand?
Do you swear or affirm under penalty of perjury that the
testimony you are about to give is true and correct to the best
of your knowledge, information, and belief so help you God?
Let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in
the affirmative. Thank you and you can be seated.
Please know that your written testimony will be entered in
the record in its entirety. Accordingly, we ask that you
summarize your testimony in five minutes, and we will begin
with Chief Rodney Scott. You want to turn your mic on.
STATEMENT OF CHIEF RODNEY SCOTT
Chief Scott. Sorry, I thought it was on. I apologize. Chair
McClintock, Ranking Member Jayapal, Chair Jordan, and Ranking
Member Nadler, and Members of the Committee, thank you for
having me here today.
I am currently a Senior Distinguished Fellow for Border
Security and Immigration at the Texas Public Policy Foundation,
but as stated, before joining Texas Public Policy, I served 29
years as a United States Border Patrol Agent. I started out as
a GS-5 Border Patrol Agent Trainee and I was competitively
promoted through the Civil Service ranks and was ultimately
promoted to Chief. I served as President Biden's Chief of U.S.
Border Patrol until I retired in August 2021. I think it is
important to know I was never a political appointee.
Over my career, I was honored to participate in the
transformation of an uncontrolled chaotic southwest border to a
border that was increasingly secure. Meaningful progress
started in 1994 under the Clinton Administration when a
strategy proposed by U.S. Border Patrol was adopted. That
strategy used focused personnel deployments, barriers,
technology, and consequences for violations of law to reduce
the chaos of illegal immigration and free up agents to focus on
public safety threats.
The basic principles of this successful strategy endured
every Presidential Administration until January 2021. My first-
hand experiences taught me that border security and immigration
are two distinctly different, yet interrelated issues. Border
security is simply knowing and controlling who and what is
entering our homeland. Immigration and the customs laws are
completely irrelevant if you cannot control the initial entry.
The terrorist attacks on 9/11 also had a profound impact on
my understanding of border security. Prior to 9/11, terrorism
was not part of the border patrol's discussions. This changed
as our Nation realized that foreign terrorists that exploited
vulnerabilities in our border security. Congress responded
quickly by creating the Department of Homeland Security and I
responded by accepting an opportunity to build the Office of
Antiterrorism with Customs and Border Protection. I quickly
found myself immersed in classified intelligence briefings and
interagency planning to mitigate terrorist threats.
The terrorists that perpetrated 9/11 entered through our
ports of entry and as such, our priority was improving the
ports of entry. We knew that as we mitigated those
vulnerabilities, terrorists would predictively shift to
entering in between the ports of entry. We also had reason to
believe that the terrorist organizations would increasingly
seek operatives that were unknown to U.S. intelligence, so we
could not rely solely on records checks. We would need skilled
interviewers.
The border patrol strategy evolved with an increased focus
on situational awareness through intelligence and physical
surveillance. However, deterring illegal immigration through a
certainty of arrests and application of consequences remained a
fundamental
pillar.
When I was selected as Chief, the capabilities of the
border patrol to detect and interdict illegal entries was
better than ever and it was rapidly improving. Fewer illegal
entries combined with the construction of the new border wall
system made every agent more effective. This equated to
additional time that agents were spending on interviews to
identify somebody positively as well as their intent and to
glean intelligence on criminal networks that was used to
improved investigations and operations.
In contrast, I also experienced the reverse of the border
security and immigration policy that was initiated by the Biden
Administration. From day one, political leadership ignored
career professionals and increasingly made policy decisions
that resulted in thousands of aliens being released into the
United States. As predicted, the volume of illegal immigration
rapidly increased. It overwhelmed border patrol and effectively
transferred control of the United States border with Mexico to
the drug cartels.
I watched border security gains that have been made over
three decades vanish and the safety of border communities
spiral backward. Policy makers must understand this is not
simply immigration issues. This is a national security threat.
Cartels use illegal aliens to overwhelm law enforcement, create
controllable gaps in border security that they then exploit to
bring in anything they want. To think the well-resourced
terrorist networks and hostile Nations are not exploiting this
same vulnerability is naive.
Prioritizing immigration processing over enforcement also
means that the agents are spread so thin when they are deployed
that even when they detect an illegal entry, they are not
always able to interdict it. These events are reported by the
border patrol as known gotaways. It is also important to know
that this does not encompass the total gotaways. The hundreds
of miles of border that are left unpatrolled on a daily or
weekly basis now and that lack persistent surveillance we have
no idea what is crossed in those areas.
In my professional assessment, the U.S. Border Patrol has
lost our ability to know who and what is entering our homeland.
Please remember, the border is simply a transit location. It is
not a destination. These people and these things are going to
every city, town, and State across this Nation. I look forward
to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Chief Scott follows:]
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Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Next, we will hear from Mr. Mark
Hetfield.
STATEMENT OF MARK HETFIELD
Mr. Hetfield. Mr. Chair, Ranking Member Jayapal, and
Members of the Subcommittee, I thank you for this opportunity
to join you today to speak about securing about border.
HIAS, founded over 120 years ago, is the Hebrew Immigrant
Aid Society. It is the oldest refugee organization in the
world. We were founded to help refugees because they were
Jewish. Today, we help refugees because we are Jewish. We
resettle refugees across the United States and partnership with
the U.S. Government and Jewish communities. We also operate in
22 other countries, half of which are in Latin America, working
to help refugees find welcome and safety in their countries of
asylum.
HIAS is old enough to remember the importance of American
leadership in drafting the Refugee Convention of 1951 and the
Refugee Act of 1980 which passed this chamber and was signed
into law with strong bipartisan support. These landmark
measures were intended to ensure that never again would people
fleeing persecution be turned back to their persecutors.
Today, however, our asylum and immigration and border
protection systems are in dire need of investment, updating,
and repair. We can all agree that the status quo is absolutely
unacceptable. Congress has not addressed illegal immigration
pathways in over three decades. The pretext for not doing so is
that we cannot fix legal immigration pathways until we fix the
border. This is a false choice, ignoring the laws of supply and
demand. We cannot fix the border without also reforming legal
immigration pathways.
As long as there are jobs to fill that American citizens
cannot or will not do, the U.S. Government will not be able to
secure the border. Congress needs to establish more pathways.
As long as the Government continues to invest in immigration
enforcement officers without investing in immigration judges
and asylum officers and in a more and efficient asylum system,
we will not be able to secure the border. Otherwise, people
will continue to apply for asylum and be assigned a court date
many years into the future.
As long as this system continues to leave people in limbo
for decades like TPS recipients, streamers, humanitarian
parolees, and people who have withholding of removal with no
pathway to permanent residence or family reunion, we will not
be able to secure the border.
So long as it is difficult for asylum seekers to access
legal counsel, you won't be able to secure the border because
they will not have access to advice on whether or not they
qualify and should proceed with their application.
HIAS welcomes the Biden Administration's announcement that
it is establishing resettlement processing centers in South and
Central America. To secure the border, we need such safe and
legal pathways for fleeing for their lives to access
resettlement, but as a safer complement to asylum, not as a
substitute.
Similarly, we welcome the Biden Administration's earlier
decision to reopen the Central American Minors Program, so
children will no longer have to risk their lives to reunite
with family across the border. Separating families, pushing
people back without a hearing for their asylum claims, and
subjecting asylum seekers to inhumane conditions on both sides
of the border in detention shames us, but will not deter people
from coming here if they have no better options.
My written testimony details the story of one HIAS client
in Mexico from Venezuela who after struggling with the glitchy
CBP app was locked in Mexican immigration detention in March in
Huarez when the fire broke out where detainees were locked in
their cells and could not escape. Forty people were killed, but
he survived by keeping his head in the toilet throughout the
ordeal. He is now in the United States receiving medical
treatment for the burns all over his body.
My written statement provides details on HIAS's proposed
approaches to the many challenges at the border. I cannot
overemphasize, however, that there are no easy or cheap
solutions to make up for decades of under investment, neglect,
and polarization around this issue. We hope we can rely on the
administration and Congress and this Subcommittee to find
bipartisan solutions that provide the legal pathways and the
enforcement mechanisms necessary to restore equilibrium and
integrity to our asylum and immigration systems.
In the meantime, there needs to be additional resources at
the border and within our asylum system, but those resources
cannot be solely focused on apprehension, removal, and
detention or on removal without a screening. The administration
should not replace one legal fiction barring asylum seekers on
health grounds with another, barring them because they did not
go through asylum systems that are even more dysfunctional than
our own.
In the immediate term, the administration and Congress
should focus on increasing resources for the fair and efficient
adjudication of asylum claims on a last-in and first-out base
with legal counseling and measures to ensure that CBP follows
the law and their own procedures to ensure that no one is sent
back into harm's way. The Refugee Admissions Program should be
resourced to be safe and orderly for pathways so that people
can rely on U.S. law rather than on smugglers. We are not the
only country facing this humanitarian challenge and we cannot
solve it alone. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Hetfield follows:]
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Mr. McClintock. Thank you. We will next hear from
Supervisor Teresa Kenny.
STATEMENT OF TERESA KENNY
Ms. Kenny. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and every
Member of the Subcommittee for giving me the opportunity to
speak with you today about what transpired with Mayor Eric
Adams and his efforts to house migrants in a local hotel in
Orangetown, New York. I am here today as the Town Supervisor of
Orangetown, a suburban community, approximately 30 miles North
of New York City to give you some insight into what is
happening around the country as a result of migration crisis at
the southern border.
It is important to note at the onset that what is happening
in Orangetown is not unique. It is playing out throughout
communities all over our country as major cities are reaching
capacity for migrant housing and they are sending into other
communities without any regard for whether they have the
resources or capabilities to handle them.
Orangetown's story began on Friday, May 5th, when New York
City Mayor Adams called to tell me about a pilot program he was
implementing as part of his decompression strategy. The plan,
he explained, was to relocate migrants from New York City and
to house them in hotels across New York State. He was calling
to let me know that a hotel in Orangetown has been identified
as a possible location.
Mayor Adams downplayed the plan telling me there was a
chance that no one would be housed in Orangetown, and he
implied that it would be happening in weeks. When pressed for
specifics, he told me that a member of his team would get back
to me.
I received a call from a member of the Mayor's staff and
that is when I learned that the plan was to house single, adult
males in a local hotel and that the buses would be arriving
imminently. In fact, it was within hours of that call that I
received photos of hundreds of mattresses stacked outside the
Armoni Inn and Suites hotel and it was evident to me that the
plan had been in the works for quite sometime and that it
included getting local elected officials very little advance
notice as a means to thwart legal challenges.
Throughout the following day, it became clear that New York
City intended to house 340 men at the Armoni Inn and Suites, a
local hotel in Orangeburg, a small hamlet of just over three-
square miles in a population of approximately 4,500 people. The
hotel is situated less than a mile from two college campuses,
two senior citizen housing complexes, and a high school. It is
located at the intersection of New York State, Route 303, which
is one of the most dangerous highways in the county and Kings
Highway, a street of mostly residential homes.
Mayor Adams' plan was simple, to convert the hotel in
Orange-
town into a housing facility for long-term residents. In other
words, to open a New York City homeless shelter in Orangetown
which is a clear violation of our local zoning standards. So,
based on this information and what was brought up from the
phone calls and the observations of medical supplies and other
shelter items by town officials who inspected the property, the
town issued a Notice of Violation to advise the hotel that it
was not consistent with the definition of a hotel as set forth
in our town code.
Despite the issuance of the Notice of Violation, on
Tuesday, May 9th, New York City scheduled a debriefing call
with elected officials to tell us that they would be sending
buses the next day. They also described conditions consistent
with a shelter and that there would be onsite staff available
24 hours a day, seven days a week, including one social worker
and one case worker per migrant for 30 migrants and that New
York City would cover the cost of three meals, laundry service,
and housekeeping for up to four months. They also introduced us
to the staff from DocGo, a company that New York City had
contracted with which specializes in providing medical-related
services to shelters.
In light of this, the town filed legal papers in Rockland
County Supreme Court and retained a restraining order against
the hotel on Tuesday, May 9th, effectively preventing the use
of a hotel as a shelter and the arrival of any migrants from
New York City the next day.
To be very clear, for our purposes the immigration status
of the individuals is irrelevant to the town's decision to seek
legal recourse. The counsel of legal action to ensure the
integrity of local zoning regulations and the protection of
those who would be housed in the hotel on a long-term basis as
a shelter, as well as the community at large.
I also want to outright reject any charges made that it is
an act of anti-immigration. Rockland County is home to a
vibrant immigrant population and in fact, I am married to one,
but over the last two years, there has been a steady increase
of migrants finding their way to Rockland County and settling
in with the support of family, friends, and local community
groups. This has already started to put a strain on Rockland
County and Rockland County Department of Social Services so
much that just over two months ago, Congressman Mike Lawler and
County Executive Ed Day held a press conference and standing
with nonprofits explained the financial impact on Rockland
County.
The problem with Mr. Adams' plan is that he does not have
one. That became evident when during the debriefing call, a
member of staff was asked what would happen with the migrants
at the end of the four months? The response was that they
expected them to integrate into the community by that time.
Orangetown, like the rest of New York State, is in a housing
crisis, affordability crisis. So, the question is how are these
men, without English skills, without family support, going to
integrate into our community?
So, I will tell you what will happen. They will end up
renting from unscrupulous landlords and we know it is happening
because just this past March there was a tragic house fire in
Rockland that killed five undocumented immigrants including two
children with five others being hospitalized. Orange and
Rockland County just do not have the resources or staffing
levels to investigate and remedy these types of situations on a
wide-scale basis.
That the Federal government acting to stem the flow of
migrants at the border, it was only a matter of time before it
impacted all our neighborhoods. While it is Orangetown today.
It will be yours tomorrow. Thank you and I look forward to
answering questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Kenny follows:]
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Mr. McClintock. Thank you. Finally, we will hear from Ms.
Tammy Nobles. Ms. Nobles, you have already heard from several
of our colleagues. Our hearts go out to you, as do the hearts
of every American who hears your story. I know that grief that
always feels very alone, but I want to assure you that you are
not alone, and you are recognized to tell your story.
STATEMENT OF TAMMY NOBLES
Ms. Nobles. Thank you to the Members of the Committee for
having me. My name is Tammy Nobles. I am the mother of Kayla
Hamilton. July 24, 2002, was one of the best days of my life. I
gave birth to a beautiful baby girl and named her Kayla Marie.
She was a happy and easy-going baby. Even back then, she loved
to smile and laugh. She always kept her friends close and never
forgot anyone. She was kind, caring, thoughtful, and funny. She
loved life and God. She showed the world that being yourself
was OK and you didn't have to follow everyone else.
Sadly, on July 27, 2022, I received the worse news that a
parent doesn't want to hear, that my newly 20-year-old daughter
Kayla Hamilton was murdered in her own room and left on the
floor like trash. She left behind a mother who loved her, a
stepfather, a brother, a younger sister, grandparents, and lots
of aunts, uncles, and cousins. At first, we knew very little
details of the murder until an arrest was made. The details we
learned broke us.
At the of March 2022, Kayla's murderer was apprehended by
Border Patrol crossing illegally into the U.S. at the southwest
border and Rio Grande City, Texas. I am not sure if he was
vetted or not, but he was a 16-year-old known gang member
affiliated with MS-13 in El Salvador. The MS-13 motto is kill,
rape, and control. He entered the country as an unoccupied
alien child. As a UAC, the murderer was allowed to go live with
his aunt in Frederick, Maryland. She was also an illegal
immigrant. There were issues with him living there and he went
to go live with his half-brother who lived in the same trailer
park as Kayla and her boyfriend.
My questions are what protocol was the aunt supposed to
follow? If she couldn't handle him, then why not inform the
proper authorities? The half-brother tried to get him a job and
to do the right thing, but that didn't happen. So, the half-
brother told him that he had to leave.
At the trailer park, an illegal immigrant owned numerous
trailers and was subletting them out. That is how Kayla was
able to get a place because she didn't make much and had no
credit yet. The half-brother asked the owner if she had any
rooms for rent. She did. The same trailer as Kayla. Kayla's
murderer was living there less than five days before he
viciously murdered my daughter.
Kayla had two jobs. She was working at a cleaning company
and at a grocery store. Kayla had autism, but she was
determined to live independently and make her way in this world
and my baby paid the ultimate price. She had just gotten home
from working the night shift and said goodbye to her boyfriend
that morning when he left for work. She then went to sleep. The
murderer went into Kayla's room, straddling her, grabbed her
iPod charger and wrapped it around her throat and face while
strangling her to death. Kayla grabbed her phone and called her
boyfriend but went to voice mail. The voice mail of the
murderer strangling her was two minutes and 30 seconds long.
The murderer then violently sexually assaulted Kayla. Kayla's
boyfriend came home from work and found her dead on the floor.
The charger cord was so tight around her neck and face that her
boyfriend had to use his teeth to get it off. The murderer
robbed her of her phone and six dollars. Six dollars was all my
baby had in cash because she used the snack machines at work to
get something to eat.
He then went to lunch with his half-brother like nothing
happened. Local police didn't have enough evidence to arrest
the murderer, so Child Protective Services took him into
custody and placed him in an unsecured children's home with
other children, even knowing that he was a named suspect in a
premeditated murder case.
When he was arrest for Kayla's murder, he laughed and
smirked. For me, this is not a political issue. This is a
safety issue for everyone living in the United States. This
could have been anyone's daughter. Kayla wasn't doing anything
wrong. She didn't deserve to be murdered. I don't want any
other parent to live the nightmare that I am living. I am her
voice now and I am going to fight with everything I have to get
her story told and bring awareness of the issue at the border.
I will make sure her memory lives on.
Murder itself is already taboo, but then you mention MS-13
and nobody wants to touch it. Nothing will change if nobody
talks about the problem. The U.S. Government has to secure our
border. We need to properly vet all border crossers. The
Government could have placed a phone call to authorities in El
Salvador and found out that he was a gang member, but they
didn't. If we had stricter border policies, my daughter would
still be alive today. Nothing will bring my daughter back nor
the pain, nor will fix the pain of not having her here. I want
to prevent this from happening to someone else's child. This is
about protecting everyone here in the United States. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Nobles follows:]
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Mr. McClintock. We will now proceed with the five-minute
rule of questions. I will defer mine until the end and
recognize Mr. Biggs of Arizona.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Ms. Nobles, thank you
again for being here. I thank all the witnesses, but thank you
for your poignant testimony.
I think of Steve Ronnebeck, whose son Grant was murdered as
he worked at a convenience store in Mesa, Arizona by an illegal
alien or Mary Ann Mendoza whose, son Brandon was a police
officer was killed by an illegal alien in Mesa, Arizona. Our
heart goes out to you, Ms. Nobles.
I am stunned that a witness would say we need to find
equilibrium at a time when six million plus people have
illegally entered the country in the last two years. Stunned. I
am stunned to know that of 31,000, 32,000 people, 21,000 of
them were released into the country over a 72-96-hour period. I
am stunned because we don't have control of our border. The CBP
Chief Ortiz has testified that the cartels control our border,
as has Sector Chief Modlin of the Tucson Sector, as has Sector
Chief Chavez of the Rio Grande Valley Sector.
I will go to you Chief Scott. Has Secretary Mayorkas taken
the actions necessary and appropriate to achieve and maintain
operational control of the borders?
Chief Scott. Absolutely not, sir. If you listen to the
words he states every time, it's about creating safe pathways.
When I was Chief, we were not allowed to even discuss
consequences or actually securing the border. It was all about
expediting the processing and avoiding the optics of people
backed up into Border Patrol stations.
Mr. Biggs. We've heard today about new parole processes
being implemented. Last year, over 300,000 people received
parole. This year, it will be over 750,000.
Prior to the Biden Administration, typically, you might see
15-20, maybe as high as 25, parole processes. That's because
that's an individual process. Even Secretary Mayorkas has
testified before this Committee that it's an individual
process.
What has he done to distort the parole process, Chief
Scott?
Chief Scott. I, honestly, do not understand how they can
look at the law and do what they're currently doing with the
parole process. By law, every one of those approvals is
supposed to be a case-by-case basis. It's supposed to be based
on a humanitarian reason or a benefit to the U.S. Government.
My entire time in the Border Patrol, I probably approved--
and I'm estimating--about six or eight paroles a year, at the
most, and those were usually to benefit a case or because of
some type of a medical condition. There were tight restrictions
put on every one of those. It was probably a packet about an
inch thick--about keeping track of the individual. Because the
concept of parole is you're allowing someone into the United
States that we know does not have a legal right to be here.
They haven't proven it. So, we're accepting risk on behalf of
all America. That's a heavy burden. We all took that very
seriously.
I do not believe the Border Patrol can be doing today the
legal assessment required for each individual case. It's just
not possible.
Mr. Biggs. Chief Scott, DHS officials--and I'm quoting now
from a The New York Times piece reads, ``Thousands of migrants
are successfully using CBP instead of paying smugglers.'' Are
we to believe that CBP is an alternative to cartel smuggling?
Or are we actually using CBP to facilitate cartel smuggling?
Chief Scott. There's--the CBP app is a--from my understand-
ing, it is, basically, a queuing mechanism, like we used to do
at ports of entry with a pen and paper on the South side.
Anything that happens on the South side of that border is
definitely controlled or influenced heavily by the cartel.
Anything we can do to get them out of the system would be
fine, but I think the piece that we're missing here, too, is
we're now taking away from the legal trade-and-travel processes
of the CBP officers at those ports of entry. They were all
gainfully employed prior, and the CBP app is pushing more and
more people into that port of entry that don't have, by
definition, do not have a legal right to be here.
The other challenge is it's a magnet. Because to use the
CBP app--again, from my understanding--you have to be in
Mexico; you have to be up close to the border. So, that entices
even more people into that border community, and the throughput
does not match the demand. Where does that overage go? Right
back to the cartels.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you. My time has expired.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes the Ranking Member
for five minutes.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Hetfield, thank you for your very compelling testimony.
As you know, one of the Biden Administration's answers to
increased migration at the border is to expand legal pathways.
As Title 42 was set to expire earlier this month, the United
States announced its opening of regional processing centers all
over the hemisphere. They will be starting in Guatemala and
Colombia, and then, expanding to other countries, including
Mexico.
This seems like a positive step by the administration to
build its capacity to take increased numbers of refugees before
they even make that dangerous journey to our southern border.
Would you agree with that? What do you think the United States
needs to do to make these regional processing centers a
success?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, I absolutely agree with that. I also
agree with Chief Scott's assessment about the overuse of
parole. The administration needs to rely more on the U.S.
Refugee Admissions Program as a lawful pathway--with a pathway
to permanent residence and, ultimately, citizenship and
suitable vetting, and less on humanitarian parole. This is,
definitely, a step in the right direction. So, I hope those
centers are resourced.
One of the key strategies that's going to have to be
implemented, though, is you have to make those centers for
asylum seekers with legitimate claims more attractive than
crossing the border to seek asylum. So, you have to look at
things that have been used in the past with the refugee
program, like the Lautenberg Amendment, and apply that to their
applications. You have to make sure that they are--that their
applications are processed expeditiously and fairly. So, yes,
but I'm absolutely supportive of that measure.
Ms. Jayapal. If you listen to my colleagues, you will think
that the United States is bearing the brunt of the global
refugee crisis alone. HIAS works all over the world, as you
said. It's simply not true. Can you discuss how other countries
in the hemisphere are seeing significant increases in the
number of asylum claims?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, absolutely. It really is a global
refugee crisis, and we are just one player in this global
refugee crisis. Colombia alone, which was, traditionally, a
refugee-producing country, is now taking in refugees. Millions
of Venezuelans, over 2.5 million Venezuelans have sought refuge
in Colombia, where HIAS operates.
Likewise, over 1.5 million in Peru; over half a million in
Ecuador; and nearly half a million in Chile. If you look at
every single country in the hemisphere, there are many asylum
seekers. Most of them come from Venezuela, but also from
Central America, and even outside of the Western Hemisphere,
seeking asylum.
So, this really requires international attention, and the
U.S. has to lead on this issue.
Ms. Jayapal. It's my understanding that HIAS is actually
helping some of these individuals apply for asylum in other
countries. Can you tell us more about that?
Mr. Hetfield. Sure. I mean, HIAS's No. 1 job is to make
asylum seekers safe and secure and welcome wherever they are.
That's in the first countries to which they flee. When that
fails, then, we try to find them third countries, but, again,
through safe and orderly means, like refugee resettlement. Our
operations have expanded massively over the last few years
because of the refugee crisis, and the Venezuelan migration, in
particular, throughout the Western Hemisphere.
Ms. Jayapal. As you pointed out, refugee admissions and the
need to assist refugees has always been a bipartisan concern
until recently. In fact, I remember the testimony of somebody
from the National Evangelical Association saying that our
refugee resettlement program is the crown jewel of humanitarian
assistance.
Mr. Hetfield, I wanted to see if you could discuss
misinformation and how it spreads among migrants who are making
the long journey to the border. Can you discuss how rumors and
misinformation is spread by the cartels of an open border
impacts the number of migrants that we see trying to come to
the United States?
Mr. Hetfield. Sure. It's massive, but it's not all
misinformation. They're spreading misinformation and, also,
information about how broken our border and our immigration
system is. That is an attractant to people to come in, to apply
for asylum and other benefits, to which many of them are not
actually entitled.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Hetfield. I couldn't agree
more. I think our words matter, and I think that you pointing
out of the importance of really establishing a functioning
immigration system is absolutely crucial.
As the Ranking Member of the Full Committee said in his
opening statement, it is, unfortunately, seen as an advantage
by many of our colleagues across the aisle to leave our
immigration system broken, so that we can continue to point
fingers at immigrants who are simply trying to do what so many
of our forbearers have done--come to the United States because
it is a country that has protected so many people fleeing
terrible persecution and many other ills.
I thank you for your testimony today and for being with us.
I yield back, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Tiffany from
Wisconsin for five minutes.
Mr. Tiffany. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chief Scott, isn't it correct that many of these people are
not asylum seekers; that they're actually not legitimate
asylees?
Chief Scott. That is very accurate. Most of them, when you
ask them questions, they're economic refugees, if anything.
They're seeking work. It's they're not political--
Mr. Tiffany. Isn't it correct, when Remain in Mexico was in
place under the previous administration, there was over 90
percent rejected? They were not legitimate asylees?
Chief Scott. That is correct. That also acted as a
deterrent. So, people stopped coming to the border because they
knew they couldn't get away with fraud.
Mr. Tiffany. Yes, just for the record, Mr. Chair, I was
down at the Darien Gap two years ago at this time in May.
That's exactly what we heard, people were coming--they were
like, ``We had resettled to Chile and we were perfectly happy
there--We resettled to Brazil.'' Haitians, others, the
Venezuelans, they said, ``We were perfectly happy there, but
since you're going to open the border, we're going to come to
the United States of America.'' That's not a legitimate asylum
claim, is it?
Chief Scott. That is not.
Mr. Tiffany. Secretary Mayorkas, has he done his job to
protect the American people?
Chief Scott. I do not believe that he has. He's focused on
the processing and completely ignored border security, which,
by the way, actually decimates our immigration system. Good
border security supports our good immigration system.
Mr. Tiffany. Ms. Nobles, if border policies continue as
they are over the last two years, will there be more Kaylas?
Ms. Nobles. Yes, I believe so, and that is why I'm
getting--trying to get her story out. So, people are aware of
the issue.
Mr. Tiffany. Might Kayla be alive if the Biden
Administration had secured the border over the last two years?
Ms. Nobles. Yes, I believe she would still be here if he
was properly vetted.
Mr. Tiffany. Would you prefer from us, if you had a choice,
to get condolences from Members, which I'm sure are very
heartfelt--would you prefer condolences or would you prefer
changes in the law, like the Secure the Border Act to make--
Ms. Nobles. I would like--oh, sorry. I would like to have
changes in the law, and I want to put a law in Kayla's name to
help to have her memory live on, and so those will know that
she was the one that could that changed the law.
Mr. Tiffany. Unfortunately, Mr. Chair, we have a name for
these people, angel families. That is a horrible thing here in
America, that we have such a thing, that we have to name all
those people that have been killed by people who came in here
illegally into our country.
I want to go back to you, Mr. Scott. Have you had a chance
to see the grand jury presentment in Florida? Have you reviewed
that?
Chief Scott. I have not reviewed it in its entirety, no.
Mr. Tiffany. Would it surprise you, out of that
presentment, a 24-year-old male was processed by ORR, the
Office of Refugee Resettlement, and went on to violently kill
his sponsor by stabbing him 50 times? Would it be a surprise
that this person came in as a minor, but, actually, was a 24-
year-old male? Is that surprising to you?
Chief Scott. It is not surprising. I'm familiar with that
case. There's no data base that we can check people's ages off
of. So, you have to go with their word.
Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised, out of that
presentment, that many don't carry any form of identification
or authentic IDs?
Chief Scott. I'm not surprised. Usually, they get rid of it
before they cross the border.
Mr. Tiffany. Are you surprised that UACs, unaccompanied
alien children, are not rapid DNA tested or biometric tested?
Chief Scott. To be honest, they're not even fingerprinted
and photographed on many occasions if they're under 14. So, no.
Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised to know, out of that
presentment, that most case managers at ORR do not have any
special training and many have been hired over the phone, sight
unseen, with a very cursory approach?
Chief Scott. That's very troubling, but, unfortunately, I'm
not surprised.
Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised that agents in the El
Paso region discovered more than 665 adult illegal aliens in
2021 alone who tried to pose as unaccompanied minors to gain
expedited entry into the United States in the past 12 months?
Chief Scott. I am not surprised. Anytime you carve out a
special group, people try to take advantage of that and lie and
get into it.
Mr. Tiffany. Would you be surprised if an ORR attorney, the
Office of Refugee Resettlement, stated, ``We only get sued for
keeping them too long. We don't get sued by traffickers.''?
Chief Scott. I am not surprised, no. It's consistent with
what I was told and heard during my time as Chief in this
administration.
Mr. Tiffany. Thank you to all the people that are here
today.
I would just close: We heard all kinds of data from the
Ranking Member here in his presentation over the course of
three decades about--I believe it added up to about 233,000
people came in via parole. That was over the course of three
decades. We've had over a million people come in, Mr. Chair, in
just a little over two years. That is not humane in any way.
Terrorists, human traffickers, and fentanyl poisonings are a
product of what has happened under the Biden Administration and
Secretary Mayorkas.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Nadler.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Hetfield, our Republican colleagues use a lot of
inflammatory rhetoric, calling migrants arriving at the
southern border ``an invasion.'' Can you discuss the impact
this kind of language has on the work that you and HIAS do?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, that's a difficult topic. It's had a
significant impact, especially as a Jewish agency. First,
there's the vilification of undocumented immigrants and asylum
seekers, which is having a major impact on the agency, security
issues regarding the agency, and on relationships with the
people that we deal with.
The vast majority of asylum seekers are coming here because
they are fleeing persecution. Many people who come here are not
in need of protection, but that's why we need a system that
makes that distinction. We don't have one right now.
In terms of HIAS itself, unfortunately, the theory of
replacement theory is gaining more and more mainstream
attention, which is that there is a conspiracy of Jews and
others to bring in Brown people and non-Christian people to
replace White Christian Americans. This is becoming a serious
problem for us. It's gaining more and more mainstream
acceptance, and I'm not really sure what to do with that.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
The United States, along with others in the hemisphere,
recently signed the Los Angeles Declaration on Migration and
Protection. As part of the declaration, the United States
committed to taking 20,000 refugees over the next two years
from the hemisphere. This feels like a start, but seems wholly
inadequate, given that seven million people are displaced from
Venezuela alone. Would you agree and can the United States be
doing more to take refugees from the hemisphere?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, absolutely. We're very late to that. As
I said, many other countries are accepting many Venezuelans in
much larger numbers than we are through more efficient
processes. Venezuelans now make up the No. 1 population in the
United States for asylum seekers. It is a hemispheric problem
that needs a hemispheric solution, and we need to be part of
that strategy, and accepting more to the Refugee Settlement
Program. Again, a safe and orderly program is the best way to
go.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
Can you discuss how the United States stepping up its
refugee program can have a positive impact on the number of
asylum seekers we see at the U.S. border?
Mr. Hetfield. Right. It needs to be done in conjunction
with having an asylum system that gives--that's efficient and
that gives responses quickly and makes decisions quickly. It
provides a safe and legal pathway for people who need
protection, and therefore, discourages them from taking their
lives at risk trying to cross the border to get that
protection. It's absolutely a necessary safety valve and legal
pathway.
Unfortunately, the Biden Administration has not yet
succeeded in rebuilding that program. As you know, the refugee
resettlement admissions ceiling last year was 125,000, and we
fell 100,000 short of that.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
Barriers to work authorization have devastating
consequences for arriving migrants in local communities, which
is one reason there has been bipartisan support for improving
access to work permits and addressing lengthy processing
backlogs. What does Congress and the administration need to do
to support local employers and improve access to work
authorization?
Mr. Hetfield. Well, this is a really vexing problem, where
asylum seekers are not allowed to accept employment, nor are
they allowed to receive any assistance while their asylum
application is pending for a minimum of six months. In many
cases, it's much, much longer than that.
So, basically, they have to find a way to support
themselves and there are no legal means for doing so. So, that
is a system that is destined to fail.
H.R. 1325, the Asylum Seeker Work Authorization Act of
2023, does provide a solution. So, I would urge that this or
similar measures be supported.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
My final question is, we heard the story of the person who
murdered Ms. Nobles' daughter. Now, this person, I gather,
was--came in as an unaccompanied minor. Has any change been
made between the Trump and Biden Administrations that would
have affected the ability of an unaccompanied minor to come
into this country and what he would do afterwards?
Mr. Hetfield. Many changes have been made by the
administration; that the Trump Administration was, as you know,
pushing, pushing minors back at the border. The bottom line is
that this goes back to the other parts of my testimony, which
is that we need a system where control does not stop at the
border, but continues into the United States. So, right now,
we're not properly resourcing the system to do that, including
as The New York Times recently exposed, with regard to the
treatment of unaccompanied minors.
Mr. Nadler. Thank you.
Thank you. My time has expired. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. Mr. Van Drew?
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Well, here we go again--addressing the continued policy
failures of this administration at the border. As our border
descends further into chaos, I can't help but worry that this
Nation is becoming increasingly comfortable with accepting
weakness, not accepting the rule of law, and accepting it all
as our new normal--an acceptance of weakness that led to the
highest number of border encounters in a single day ever.
By the way, there was a comment from somebody from the
other side and they said that Republicans enjoy this because
they can use it as political fodder. Let's be clear. The
Democrats were in control for two years. They had the
presidency; they had the Senate; they had the House of
Representatives. They could have done anything. They could have
made this better. They could have straightened it out. It
wasn't a split. They didn't; that's the reality.
So, let's talk about what's really true and let's not just
talk political talk that doesn't make sense. An acceptance of
weakness has turned every town in America--from El Paso, Texas,
to Orange County, California--I'm sorry--New York, into a de
facto border town.
An acceptance of weakness that has turned public parks,
police stations, and school gymnasiums into makeshift shelters.
Tell me that's good for America. Anybody sitting out there
right now, you tell me that's good for our America.
An acceptance of weakness that led to the tragic case of
Kayla Hamilton, where an MS-13 gang member was allowed into our
country as a supposedly, quote, ``unaccompanied minor''--
despite a history of criminal activity and of violence. Tell me
that's good for our America.
If you have strong borders--if you don't have strong
borders, excuse me, you are not a strong Nation. Every country
in the world, basically, has strong borders. Third world
countries have stronger borders than we do right now.
If this administration cannot protect its citizens, they
are not worthy of the authority Americans have trusted them
with. Personally, I do not think that Secretary Mayorkas is
worthy and I do not think our President is.
If you continue to accept the weakness we are witnessing,
you are surrendering the very foundations of our democracy, the
disregard for our laws. We're not a Nation of the rule of law
anymore. Think about the premise in which we argue, discuss,
and debate this. It's against the law to illegally enter the
country. It's against the law. You've broken the law. I don't
understand why the law doesn't matter anymore. Are we a Nation
of laws or are we not? That's the important question here.
It's gotten so out of hand that our Secretary Mayorkas is
celebrating--actually, celebrating--6,300 illegal encounters as
a good day. That's a good day. Think about that. President
Obama's Homeland Security Secretary once claimed that a
thousand encounters a day would be a crisis. Now, 6,300 is a
good day. Today, it's a triumph.
This is the acceptance of weakness consuming our Nation,
and it threatens the safety and well-being of each and every
American, and we should not tolerate it and we should change
it. You can be a humane and good country, but still believe in
the rule of law.
I wonder how Kayla's family feels about it all. I wonder if
she thinks this is good.
I have three quick questions for Chief Scott. With the
number of crossings our country is experiencing, can Border
Patrol properly debrief and access the information and
intentions of every migrant trying to come across our border?
Yes or no?
Chief Scott. No.
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you.
Do you believe it is easier for a terrorist to get into the
United States undetected today than five years ago? Yes or no?
Chief Scott. It definitely is.
Mr. Van Drew. Thank you.
As thousands of illegal migrants are accepted into our
country every day, are there less obvious threats to Americans
that we aren't noticing yet or are we looking into them enough?
The question is, are we looking into these threats enough? Yes
or no?
Chief Scott. No, the Border Patrol barely has time to
process who's in custody. They're leaving hundreds of miles of
border unpatrolled every day. No.
Mr. Van Drew. Exactly. This is--and thank you, sir. Thank
you for your work.
This is a joke. Let's really talk about the real issue.
It's the rule of law. It's the safety of our people. We're
breaking the law and we're becoming weaker, and we've got to
stop it.
Thank you, Chair. I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Correa of California.
Mr. Correa. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, Ms. Nobles, I also want to express my condolences,
as a fellow parent. I also have a daughter about the same age
that your daughter. About two years ago, I got a phone call at
home--I should say, at work--from home. My daughter was all
alone at home; called me screaming, crying, saying, ``Daddy,
there's two men in the house.'' Two men were burglarizing the
house. ``What do I do, Daddy?'' I said, ``Stay by the dogs. Let
me call 911.'' Those moments of terror, I hate to think what
would have happened if those German Shepherds weren't there, or
if our local Santa Ana PD had not gotten there in minutes.
Ma'am, I can guarantee you that no one condones criminals
in our streets with or without documents. This is about our
families and the safety of our families. With or without
documents, I do not condone anybody in our streets that would
harm our families.
Ms. Nobles, my prayers are with your family.
Mr. Chair, without objection, I'd like to submit for the
record this Wall Street Journal article entitled, ``What
Everyone--Except the U.S.--Has Learned About Immigration.
Washington remains divided over allowing more foreign workers
while global rivals lower barriers to ease persistent labor
shortages.''
Mr. Chair?
Mr. McClintock. That's right. Without objection.
Mr. Correa. Mr. Hetfield, if I may, COVID, the aftermath of
COVID, it seems that the USA is again the world's economic
locomotive. The world seems to be devastated economically. Even
the great China, even the great economy is sputtering right
now.
I got a phone call the other day from the President of
Guatemala asking for help with the refugee challenge Guatemala
is facing. You mentioned Colombia, 2.4 Venezuelan refugees.
Mexico is having a challenge. This is a worldwide phenomenon.
You've already addressed it, but I want you to, again,
repeat, is this a U.S. challenge at this moment? We can look at
this last two or three years and say this is wrong, but you've
got to open it up beyond just the United States. It's a
worldwide phenomenon. Am I correct or not?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, you're absolutely correct. The United
States cannot solve this problem alone, but we're not going
through it alone, either. The global refugee crisis is over 120
million people right now.
Mr. Correa. I'm always tempted to say this is a refugee
challenge like we haven't seen since World War II, when 60
million Europeans were on the move. Am I correct in that
assessment?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, the actual number is double that in
terms of forcibly displaced persons. So, you're not incorrect
at all. As a proportion of the world population, of course,
it's smaller, but, in absolute numbers, it's double.
Mr. Correa. Chief Scott, if I may ask you a question, sir?
I want to say, first, you are doing an impossible job. Thank
you for what you're doing.
The private sector in our society continues to be a magnet
for workers. Sixty percent of the individuals that come across
blend into society. They have families they arrive with. They
blend into society.
Fifty percent of our farm workers aren't documented. I
would say that, as long as we don't have immigration reform,
that it's sensible, that it works for our private sector. The
need for workers in this country is also a magnet. Would you
say that or not?
Chief Scott. I started out in the Immigration and
Naturalization Service, where I was taught border security
supports our legal immigration system, so that we can meet
needs like that. They do go hand-in-hand, but I do point out
that, if you can't control the flow in any way, then you really
can't--and any kind of numbers or any kind of decisions you put
at the other end are irrelevant.
I do believe this country was based on immigration. I think
everybody in the Border Patrol supports immigration. That's why
they got in. We support it legally.
Mr. Correa. I agree with you. The problem is there is no
way to get in to work in this country right now. Our economy
would suffer. Again, 50 percent of our farm workers being
undocumented. I don't think anybody supports a policy to deport
those workers because that would affect our food security.
I look forward to working with all of you in making sure we
do some common-sense reforms that are good for the American
economy and the American people.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I yield.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair?
Mr. McClintock. For what purpose does the gentlelady seek
recognition?
Ms. Jayapal. I have a unanimous consent request to enter
the following statements into the record: Organizational
statements from the Center for Gender & Refugee Studies, Church
World Service, and National Immigration Reform.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes Mr. Roy of Texas.
Mr. Roy. I thank the Chair.
Mr. Scott, we were just told that we're unable to get
workers into this country. True or false, we get somewhere
around a million green cards every year and we have seasonal
workers available to come here and work under our current
system under the law?
Chief Scott. That's correct.
Mr. Roy. Currently, at our border, what do we have right
now in terms of our ability for Border Patrol to stop the flow
between ports of entry or is it, in fact, that Border Patrol is
processing people at the ports of entry?
Chief Scott. The Border Patrol stays outside the ports of
entry themselves, but the Border Patrol is, literally, it's
almost acting as a port because they're processing getaways and
they're leaving hundreds of miles of border wide open.
Mr. Roy. For example, at a tent like in Eagle Pass, right,
where you've got a 10-acre facility where you're processing
1,500 people a day? Is Border Patrol a part of that operation?
Chief Scott. Yes, sir. Yes.
Mr. Roy. As opposed to actually being on the line and being
able to go patrol the border between the ports of entries, as
they're supposed to do?
Chief Scott. Correct. There's been some numbers reported,
but I think what's important is, even if half of the Border
Patrol agents are deployed to the field at the beginning of a
shift, within an hour or so, they're overwhelmed with thousands
of more illegal aliens, and then, they are processing as well--
leaving the border wide open.
Mr. Roy. Chief Scott, do we know how much fentanyl or
dangerous narcotics come in between our ports of entry or
dangerous individuals?
Chief Scott. We have no idea, but there's no shortage in
Chicago or New York.
Mr. Roy. Right. So, this claim by my colleagues on the
other side of the aisle that all the fentanyl comes in at the
ports of entry--we, literally, don't know how much is coming in
between the ports of entry because the Border Patrol is unable
to do its job while it's being overwhelmed by the failed
policies of this administration? Is that true?
Chief Scott. That is accurate. If you look at the
statistics, anytime illegal immigration across the border
between the ports slows down, drug seizures actually increase
because agents are actually out there identifying it.
Mr. Van Drew. Supervisor Kenny, your community has been
dramatically impacted, right, by the number of individuals that
have been dumped in your community? Can you quickly--it's just
a matter of time--explain how much that has negatively impacted
your community?
Ms. Kenny. I'm from Orangetown in Rockland County. We,
actually, obtained a restraining to prevent them from coming
until it goes through the court system. The county just North
of us has received hundreds and hundreds at this point, and I
can't speak for them.
Mr. Roy. You have had hotels filled up with like single,
often single males that are filling up places, so that needy
individuals aren't able to get facilities and they aren't able
to get the resources they need? Is that true?
Ms. Kenny. Yes. The goal of Mayor Adams was to send 340
single, adult men to a hotel in my town. It's been put on hold
by the courts.
Mr. Roy. Where is your town again?
Ms. Kenny. In Orangetown, which is 30 miles North of New
York City.
Mr. Roy. OK. So, not on the southern border of the United
States?
Ms. Kenny. No.
Mr. Roy. So, this is something we're dealing with. As my
friend from Arizona, Mr. Biggs, knows, and my friend from
California, Mr. McClintock, and others know, on the border, we
deal with it all the time in our communities in South Texas,
but this is something that the entire country is now dealing
with.
I'd like to now move to Ms. Nobles. I cannot possibly put
into words, Ms. Nobles, what you have experienced as a result
of the failed policies of this country.
I would simply ask, as carefully as I can, having met with
numerous family members who have lost loved ones due to these
failed policies, whether it's through violence, as you have,
unfortunately, experienced, or whether it is through, for
example, fentanyl poisonings that so many of our moms have
experienced.
I met with three fentanyl moms just two weeks in Austin,
Texas. I've met with dozens. I've met with dozens of
individuals who have lost loved ones, including a family member
in San Antonio whose son was killed by an illegal immigrant who
had been here, had been arrested; let go; arrested; let go, and
then, burned this woman's son to death.
That's what we have going on in our country, while our
colleagues on the other side of the aisle bury their head in
the sand and pretend that somehow, it's compassionate.
I would just ask you, Ms. Nobles, to explain whether or not
you've had interactions with other moms and family members who
have had similar unfortunate experiences as a result of our
failed policies?
Ms. Nobles. Unfortunately, I haven't. I haven't seen
anybody talk about their story or shared anything about what--
because I know that Kayla wasn't the only one. Where are they?
So, that's why I'm standing up and talking about her story and
getting her story out. At least, I can speak for my child and
make sure that I make people aware of what's going on.
Mr. Roy. Well, Ms. Nobles, I'm going to, after this
hearing, connect you with angel families who have had a number
of these experiences that they've put out--with the Vargas
family in San Antonio who have been dealing with it, with lost
from these kinds of policies.
I would just ask, Chief Scott, are the current policies
stopping the kind of violence that can occur through having,
for example, in this case, a UAC, an unaccompanied alien child,
who ended up carrying out this crime that Ms. Nobles had to
suffer from? I want to ask you that question.
I also just want to point out before you answer the
question--and then, I'll yield back--I just came back from the
Federal District Courthouse because I went over there to
support Jaime Zapata's family. Because Jaime Zapata was gunned
down by the cartels in 2011 and the sentencing is going on
right now, as we speak.
Cartels are empowered at our border. They are empowered by
China. They are empowered by our own Federal government failing
to do its job, and Americans are dying as a result, and so are
migrants.
Mr. Scott, if you can answer that question? Then, I'll
yield back.
Chief Scott. The current crisis is making it impossible to
be able to weed out the criminals, especially the UACs, from
anyone else. The agents don't have time to do face-to-face
interviews. There's no global, like, data base of criminal
records.
Mr. Roy. Thank you, Chief Scott.
Mr. Biggs. Mr. Chair, I seek unanimous consent on various
articles--to put a piece from The New York Times, dated April
23rd, ``Biden Opens a New Back Door on Immigration''; the
Navajo Nation requesting answers to questions; ``Border
Crossings Down''--this is a Washington Post article from May
19th, ``Border Crossings Down, But Many Migrants Released to
the U.S. to Ease Crowding''; a Breitbart piece entitled,
``Human Smuggler Drops Preschool-Age Child Over California
Border Wall,'' dated today's date; as well as a piece dated
today, ``Georgia Democrat Slams Party for Favoring Migrants
Over Americans.''
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Mr. Biggs. Thank you.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Jackson Lee of
Texas.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to the Ranking
Member.
As one would expect, Ms. Nobles--and I'm over here; Ms.
Nobles, I'm in this direction.
Ms. Nobles. Oh, yes.
Ms. Jackson Lee. As a mother, I couldn't say anything less
than the pain that I know that you're experiencing. I could say
my heart goes out to you, but I want to acknowledge the pain
for any mother, any family, to lose their precious child.
I want your daughter's story to be heard. If we can work in
a bipartisan way, I will sign onto any bill that enhances her
heroic story. I think that's what you are surviving on.
What a young woman--wanting to be independent, working two
jobs, holding her head up high. A vicious act.
Forgive me if I say this is not solely immigration. It's
poor police work, to be honest with you. Frankly, we wanted
that not to happen. No one on this panel is championing MS-13;
I can tell you that.
So, we've got to find a way to decipher, discern, to weed
out. Because if there is a mother trying to come just to work
in the fields, I know that may not be the best way for her to
come, but that is not the MS-13. They don't deserve to be in
this country, period.
So, let me just--I don't want to say thank you, because
you're here in pain. I just want you to know I think her story
has to be told.
Thank you for your presence here today.
Chief, I assume we served overlapping; I'm not sure. What
years were you? You're retired. So, what years have you served,
sir?
Chief Scott. As the Chief, it was 1920, February 2020 until
August 2021. I was a Border Patrol Agent for over 29 years.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Starting what year?
Chief Scott. 1992.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes. So, you've had several leaders,
Presidents, and then, of course, Homeland Security came into
being after 9/11. I was on the Committee in its origins and
know just about every one of your Border Patrol leaders.
Would you say that it would be better to approach
immigration reform, Republicans and Democrats, in a terminology
that we coined under the late John McCain, comprehensive
immigration reform, which, in essence, deals with border
security in the North and the South and recognizing legal
pathways for entry? Would you accept that would be a better
approach?
Chief Scott. I believe border security is exactly like your
home; it gets overcomplicated a lot of times in the public
discussion, but it's exactly like your home. We just need
people to come through the front door in a legal manner.
Congress gets to pick who those people are, not the Border
Patrol.
Ms. Jackson Lee. So, my time is short. I want you to answer
the question specifically. Comprehensive immigration reform
with border security and legal pathways, would you accept that?
Chief Scott. Based on my experience, the border security
has to come first.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, I can't put words in your mouth, but
you're not going to get border security coming first. You need
to be able to balance it. You would not accept a border
security and recognizing pathways to legal entry?
Chief Scott. Based on my experience, and looking at 1986
IRCA, you have to be able to secure the border first--
Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, you'll be stuck--
Chief Scott. --or all the other conversations are
irrelevant.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes, I appreciate that.
Reasonably, Mr. Hetfield, as you understand, when John
McCain, the late John McCain--we had a very strong
comprehensive bill, and it had border security and a legal
pathway. We get stuck on border security. We're not listening
to the witnesses here. We're not listening to the New York town
that is frustrated with what's happening to them--and rightly
so.
So, let me just get you to this, espouse, because my time
is going.
First, your organization was affiliated with the Tree of
Life, was it not? Or the attitude of that killer?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, I'd rather not discuss the Tree of Life
because the prosecution is ongoing at this point.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Well, let me just say, since I went there,
let me just say that the attitude was that Jews were bringing
in migrants and immigrants. Was that true?
Mr. Hetfield. That is correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. It resulted in death, did it not?
Mr. Hetfield. That is correct.
Ms. Jackson Lee. All right. Let me just get to the point of
the work that you do. That is, have things changed in the
hemisphere, so that more refugees are coming and you work with
refugees to help the United States, so they don't result in
being lost or being in the wrong direction? As well, I would
assume that you abhor MS-13 as well? If you can answer those
two questions, I'd appreciate it.
Mr. Hetfield. Absolutely and absolutely.
Ms. Jackson Lee. You've got to say--
Mr. Hetfield. Yes. Yes, HIAS is entirely focused on legal
pathways to bring people into the United States, so they do not
resort to fleeing across borders to seek asylum. We try to
provide them with safe and legal alternatives to that, and in
partnership with the U.S. Government and Jewish communities.
Absolutely, we need a system of control which can identify,
vet, and detain, and reject and remove people who are a danger
to the society.
Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady's time has expired.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Like MS-13?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes.
Ms. Jackson Lee. Yes.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Moore of Alabama.
Ms. Jackson Lee. I yield back.
Mr. Moore. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Certainly, I want to thank all the witnesses for being here
today.
I've said this before and I'll say it again--that a closed
border, a controlled border is actually a compassionate
border--and not just for the migrants who get turned into
indentured servants, or worse, but for the Americans that some
of these illegal aliens harm.
For example, in my district, the 2nd Congressional District
of Alabama, a couple of weeks ago, the Autauga County Sheriff
Department arrested Grevi Zavala, a 29-year-old illegal alien
from Honduras for the rape of a teenaged girl in Prattville.
It's alleged that he dragged her into a bathroom in a
restaurant. Press reports indicate that he entered the United
States in November 2021 through Texas, using a fake name, but
was allowed to enter into this country. In addition, according
to the press reports, he had a criminal record in Honduras. I
don't know how this is possibly acceptable.
Ms. Nobles, unfortunately, you and your family know this
all too well. I am terribly sorry for what happened to you and
your daughter. I'm a proud father of four. I've got two girls
and a granddaughter that will be born probably by Friday, I
understand. That's what the experts are saying. Anyway, we
should never let this happen.
So, Mr. Hetfield, I want to go to you initially. You said
we've got a lot of people coming to this country that are not
qualified. What do you mean by that?
Mr. Hetfield. The only way for many people to come into
this country is through the asylum system. That's the only way
to be able to not be expeditiously removed at the border, is to
claim a fear.
So, of course, people are using that pathway, if they're
coming here for reasons that do not qualify them for asylum,
such as they need to support themselves. They're trying to
escape poverty. They're trying to reunite with family. Which is
why we need to have an asylum system that functions and
efficiently determines whether or not somebody has a legitimate
asylum claim or not.
Mr. Moore. Mr. Hetfield, let me ask you this: I was in
Yuma, Arizona. This is our third hearing and we had one in the
district in Yuma, or actually on the border. The sheriffs
informed us there that, basically, they're just--the border
agents have become concierges. They're just giving these people
a Motion to Appear, an $800 taxpayer-funded subsidy, and a cell
phone. Then, when we take their calls for court dates, they're
not--they'll take our phones, but they're not taking our calls.
Do you find that alarming, that we're just turning people
loose with very little background checks?
Mr. Hetfield. I find it very alarming that people are
getting lost in the system, waiting for years to get an asylum
hearing. That doesn't work for anybody.
Mr. Moore. Speaking of lost in the system, we heard a few
weeks ago that we had lost 85,000 unaccompanied minors. The
Federal government had shipped them to Google addresses in
America. Now, it sounds like, based on testimony, that they're
not all minors and there are actually some of them here doing a
great deal of harm.
Mr. Scott, I want to ask you a question really quick. I
heard prices people had on their heads for coming to this
country. Just South of the border, the last time I heard, it
was about six or seven thousand dollars to come of Mexico.
Further South, the Triangle Nations, it's about nine or ten
thousand dollars. Then, Syria was $20,000. Russians were paying
$19,000, and Chinese nationals were paying $80,000. Where is
that money going, do you think, Mr. Scott?
Chief Scott. It goes directly to fuel the cartels.
Mr. Moore. It fuels the cartels. What happens if somebody
doesn't have the money? Do they actually become indentured
servants or slaves? Is that what happens?
Chief Scott. So, that is one of the many things that could
happen. The prices vary, depending on how much risk you're
willing to take, how far out in the desert you'll go. So, they
vary.
The price also varies if you're willing to do other things.
So, if you're willing to guide or you're willing to smuggle
narcotics, or you're willing--
Mr. Moore. I heard that--that's interesting, Mr. Scott. I
appreciate you mentioning that they'll actually, if you'll
backpack that heroin or cocaine or fentanyl, that your passage
is somewhat considered paid if you're willing to be a drug mule
rather than a slave. Is that correct?
Chief Scott. That is how some people cross, yes.
Mr. Moore. Ms. Nobles, have you heard anything from the
Biden Administration concerning the loss of your daughter?
Ms. Nobles. No, I haven't.
Mr. Moore. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With that, I'm going to yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
For what purpose does Ms. Jackson Lee seek recognition?
Ms. Jackson Lee. I'd like to ask unanimous consent that I
can submit into the record an article, ``The Biden
Administration To Send 1,500 Troops to the Southern Border,''
for support ahead of expected migrants, and also, to have a
statement that reflects that the numbers have gone down, as it
relates to those entering the United States at this time. I ask
unanimous consent.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Ms. Ross.
Ms. Ross. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses, and, in particular, to Ms.
Nobles for sharing your story. Please know that I join with my
colleagues in wanting justice for her and for other people who
have, similarly, lost their lives through senseless--
senseless--acts. At least know we're with you.
Earlier this spring--and the Ranking Member may have
brought this up in her opening comments--we traveled to McAllen
and Brownsville, Texas, two Texas border towns. Our
conversations with U.S. Customs and Border Protection during
that visit reinforced my commitment to ensuring that CBP has
the resources that it needs to strengthen border control.
Agents we spoke with specifically emphasized the need for
sophisticated surveillance technology to monitor border
crossings. They talked about how the cartels had more drones
and kids on roofs who are operating the drones than the kinds
of technology that we needed to see people before they get to
the border and be able to stem that. I see that Chief Scott is
nodding, as I talked about that.
During our visit, I was also struck by the reliance of our
immigration and asylum systems on nonprofits and local
governments; that they were not getting the support from the
Federal government or the State governments to do their jobs.
What goes on in Brownsville, Texas, on the local government tax
dollar is nothing short of extraordinary, to make sure that
people who have been allowed to cross the border can get on
their way quickly, and not be in Brownsville and not be in
those hotels. They say they don't want people to stay overnight
in Brownsville. They want to get people to the bus station.
They want to get people to the airport.
Now, while their work is admirable, this responsibility
shouldn't fall solely on NGO's and local governments. State and
Federal governments need to bolster the resources dedicated to
responding to this many people who enter the United States
under asylum claims and through other legal pathways. The
Federal government must fund the technology that CBP needs and
the training and the personnel, so that they can do their jobs.
Immigration is an extremely complex issue, and Democrats
are pushing for implementation of effective solutions to
strengthen border security and expand legal pathways to enter
this country. It is important that we expand legal pathways
because we simply need the workers.
I represent North Carolina. I heard from the agriculture
industry every day. I went to visit a small, family farm two
weeks ago. No. 1 issue, immigration. Hospitality industry, No.
1 issue, immigration. Tech industry, No. 1 issue, immigration.
We need to do both.
In fact, we need to make sure that our rhetoric doesn't
make the immigration problems worse. Unfortunately, it's been
documented that repeated right-wing claims about the border
being completely open are used on social media by smugglers to
encourage more people to attempt to come to the United States
without authorization. We need to have that stopped. We need to
put aside our partisan blinders and use these hearings, not to
magnify the problems of our immigration system, but to solve
them in a bipartisan way.
With the remaining minute I have, my first question is for
Mr. Hetfield. Unlike many countries, ours does not have a
reception system for asylum seekers after they've been
initially processed by immigration officials at the border and
allowed to come into our country.
NGO's and local governments, like Brownsville, Texas, are
stepping in to fill the gap that the Federal and State
governments have left. We simply need a more orderly process. I
wish everybody could see how well Brownsville does its job.
From your experience, how are these programs contributing
to a safe and orderly immigration system, and what more can be
done--in 14 seconds?
Mr. Hetfield. They're absolutely essential. When I directed
the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom's study
on expedited removal a few years ago, we did find that, when
you provide that kind of counseling, you actually have a very
high dissolve rate by asylum seekers, because they realize that
they're actually not eligible for the benefit. So, they
withdraw their claims. By not having a reception system, you
are just contributing to having people get lost in the system.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Nehls of Texas.
Mr. Nehls. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Nobles, thank you for your testimony today. I can't
imagine. I have three daughters--22, 17, and 10. I can't
imagine what you and your family have been going through. Like
so many other families across the United States, I'm incredibly
sorry for your loss.
Chief Rodney Scott, I thank you for being here.
I had the opportunity to review the case file. This is the
case file on this murderer, this--well, I'm going to stop with
that--on this alleged 17-year-old unaccompanied alien child who
brutally killed and raped Kayla Hamilton. I know you're
familiar, sir. You're familiar with the intake forms.
Record of Deportable/Inadmissible Alien, this is the form
here. So, I'm going to walk through a few things that I
noticed, that I saw on this form--that this bad hombre said his
intended location was Texas. As we know, he went to Maryland.
He didn't stay in Texas. He didn't stay there very long.
This bad hombre said he had no funds in his possession, and
that his father was his method of support. As we know, he
somehow was moved to live with his aunt.
This bad hombre said he was claiming credible fear--
credible fear, like everybody up there. We know that a majority
of those claims are unsubstantiated. I think it's about 10
percent. Later said on his HHS intake form that he had come to
work.
So, he's a liar. He's a bad hombre and a lying one at that.
The UAC said he had no prior criminal history--no prior
criminal history. However, after his arrest, Maryland law
enforcement--think about that. We can't count on the Federal
government down at the border to make sure that the people
entering our country are decent people that don't have criminal
records.
It took local and State law enforcement in Maryland one
phone call to El Salvador. That's it. Get on the phone. I call
El Salvador. I say, ``Hey, let me ask you about this bad hombre
that entered our country. Has he been arrested?'' They say,
``Oh, yes. Oh, yes, sir, he's been arrested in El Salvador in
2020 for his illicit association with MS-13 gangs.''
Couldn't figure that out down at the border. We've got to
find out after he kills, rapes, and murders a young woman in
the United States.
He said he was 16. He wasn't 16. He had no parole form. You
don't need to prove your age. You just say, ``I'm 16.''
We were in a case here a month or so ago about the
gentleman that comes through. He claims he was a UAC. He goes
to Florida with his caretaker and butchers the guy in Florida.
I saw a picture of this guy. He had more chin whiskers than
the witness next to you. He's 25 years old. He came in as an
unaccompanied alien child. How does that work? How does that
happen? How or why don't we have more safety guards, safety
wheels, down at our southern border?
So, we were able to establish this man--or, Chief, any of
the 380,000 UACs that have entered since Joe Biden took
office--were under the age of 18. How are we able to determine
whether they're actually truly under 18?
Chief Scott. We really can't, sir. That's where a seasoned,
professional agent comes in. When they interview them, a lot of
those inconsistencies you talked about come up in the story
immediately. The chaos that we have on the border today
prevents the agents from having that amount of time. The
administration is yelling at them to process and move them down
the assembly line as fast as possible.
Mr. Nehls. So, when Secretary Mayorkas gets in front of the
camera and lies to the American people every other day, if not
daily, and he says these people are betted, is that a true
statement, sir?
Chief Scott. They're vetted against a blank sheet of paper.
There's no global data base to vet them off.
Mr. Nehls. Yes. What kind of a border--what kind of
background check is done on these individuals?
Chief Scott. They're ran through a United States
Government's NCIC, which runs through criminal data bases.
Unless the individual has been in the United States, committed
a crime here before, it's not going to be in that system.
Mr. Nehls. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. This
is No. 3, the third hearing on the border. All Joe Biden had to
do, when he was inaugurated on January 20th--I sat; I went
there; I respect the office of the President--all he had to do
was keep his mouth shut. He didn't have to say anything about
our southern border, and we'd be a much safer country today.
On March 12, 2021, I have a report. Hold it up. Following a
reassessment, the CBP Director terminated Title 42 with respect
to unaccompanied alien children. If I'm understanding this
correctly, is it true that for the last two years we created a
blanket waiver to allow anyone claiming to be under 18 into the
United States, despite their criminal records or gang
affiliation? Yes or no?
Chief Scott. I believe the gang affiliation, if they know,
they could still deport them. For the most part, that--yes.
Mr. Nehls. Parents let's be clear, MS-13 stands for kill,
rape, and control. Joe Biden and Secretary Mayorkas are
allowing potentially 30-year-old gang members into our
communities, into our schools, and around our kids, where they
will do the exact damned thing they did to Kayla Hamilton.
Shame on them, and we must hold them accountable.
I yield back.
Mr. McClintock. For what purpose does the gentlelady from
Washington seek recognition?
Ms. Jayapal. Mr. Chair, I ask unanimous consent that the
following be made a part of the record.
This is an email that was sent yesterday by the Department
of Health and Human Services reminding my colleagues that HHS
allowed Committee staff an in-camera review of this, the
individual, the unaccompanied minors' file, with the
expectation that the Committee would refrain from disclosing
any nonpublic information it obtained.
It is imperative that we do not interfere with the
integrity of criminal proceedings. I would hope that my
colleagues would not disclose any information that could impact
the criminal proceedings or Ms. Nobles' ability to get justice
for her daughter.
Mr. McClintock. The gentlelady was recognized for a
unanimous consent request. Without objection.
Ms. Jayapal. It was a serious violation.
Mr. McClintock. Without objection, that will be entered
into the record.
Ms. Jayapal. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. I'll next recognize myself for five
minutes.
Supervisor Kenny, again, 3.6 million illegal immigrants
entering this country over the past 28 months. Gallup, by the
way, told us last year they're estimating in Latin American and
the Caribbean alone 42 million people intend to come here now
that the borders are open.
What's this doing to the situation in your homeless
shelters, in your food pantries, and what are you hearing from
other cities in New York?
Ms. Kenny. Yes. So, as I've learned in recent weeks, we
already have a lot of migrants finding their way to Rockland
County through family and friends. It's already putting a
burden on our social services in our Rockland county--so much
so that they recently had to give another million dollars to
the food pantries. Keeping in mind that Mayor Adams got eight--
I'm sorry. He got a billion dollars from New York State, and he
is looking to put them in hotels in our town without any
support or any--
Mr. McClintock. What are your constituents telling you?
Ms. Kenny. The constituents have concerns and as you--as I
sit here today, and I hear this testimony and I understand why.
There are questions raised about where the individuals are
going to be vetted and they were told this would be--they would
be vetted at the border. So, in light of what I'm hearing today
it gives pause for questions about who should be in our
community.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
Chief Scott, one of our colleagues said that you had an
impossible job. Was your job impossible when we were actually
enforcing our immigration laws?
Chief Scott. It was not impossible, and we were getting
better at it every single day and we had a strategy to actually
secure the border.
Mr. McClintock. It is basically becoming impossible since
Biden changed those policies, is that correct?
Chief Scott. Correct. The current flow of illegal
immigration will exceed any ability to be able to secure--
Mr. McClintock. When Mr. Biden canceled work on the border
wall did that also cancel work on the technology at the border
to detect illegal crossing?
Chief Scott. It did that and it also shut off our new
communications capability that was being built into the wall
system as well.
Mr. McClintock. Under the Immigration and Naturalization
Act foreign nationals claiming asylum are required to be
detained until their claim is heard. Are they?
Chief Scott. No.
Mr. McClintock. What can you tell us about cartel and gang
activity being introduced into our country over the past two
years?
Chief Scott. So, everything that crosses that southwest
border now is controlled by the cartels. The cartels control
the illegal migrant crossings so that they can create these
gaps in border security and then they smuggle--when I say gaps
in border security, I mean they overwhelm all the law
enforcement in the area beyond Border Patrol. Then that opens
gaps where there's no law enforcement and they bring anything
they want into the country behind that.
Even on the U.S. side, if it's narcotics or even aliens,
they are basically facilitated or guided to their ultimate
destinations through cartel on this side in very, very, very
tight ties with many of the gangs, MS-13 and others. Can't
really tell where the cartel ends and where they don't. It's
more of a terminology. This is a huge threat and it's gotten
significantly worse with the open border created.
Mr. McClintock. So, they are brought in by the cartels to
whom these migrants pay thousands of thousands of dollars,
arrive at the border deeply indebted to those cartels, and then
they are trafficked throughout the country, are they not?
Chief Scott. They are. I really use--
Mr. McClintock. Who is doing that trafficking?
Chief Scott. Again, that's still cartel and that's still
gang affiliations or anybody--
Mr. McClintock. Do we not also have a lot of
nongovernmental organizations that are assisting in
distributing these migrants across the country?
Chief Scott. So, yes. So, currently they're getting
millions of dollars. The nongovernmental organizations are
getting millions of through FEMA. The people get to choose
where they go. So, it's not necessarily those nongovernmental
organizations that are telling them go to New York and hook up
with smuggler.
Mr. McClintock. Right.
Chief Scott. They're just getting the free plane ticket,
the free care, and the feeding and place to rest for a while.
Mr. McClintock. Well, free? Nothing is free. Who is paying
for those plane tickets?
Chief Scott. You are. It's going through FEMA and its
basically money being laundered and given to the NGO's to
support this entire enterprise.
Mr. McClintock. The Dems tell us this is just a hemispheric
problem beyond our control, but when we had the Remain in
Mexico policy and were completing the border wall and were
enforcing court-ordered deportations didn't illegal immigration
slow to a trickle?
Chief Scott. Dramatically. I agree with the colleague to my
right, when people knew what the parameters were and they knew
they couldn't defraud the system and get released into the
United States before a judge adjudicated their case, they
stopped coming. That reduced flow allowed agents to be more
effective.
Mr. McClintock. Ms. Nobles, can you tell us what you
thought when you found out that the suspect in Kayla's murder
was found to be an MS-13 gang member and that it was confirmed
by a simple phone call by the local police department to El
Salvadoran authorities and then discovered that the Federal
authorities never bothered to make that call before releasing
him into the country?
Ms. Nobles. I was very angry about the whole thing.
Mr. McClintock. What would you have to say to the
organizations and officials responsible for the illegal entry
literally of millions into this country over the past couple of
years?
Ms. Nobles. It's unbelievable. Like I'm really upset about
how it was failed at the border and then allow him to go with
his aunt. Then all it started right at the border and then it
just went downhill from there.
Mr. McClintock. Thank you.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Hunt. Or no, Mr. Jordan.
Chair Jordan. I thank the Chair.
It seems to me, Chief Scott, that the fundamental question
that people are asking is why? Why is this happening now at
this scale? It is certainly the question Ms. Nobles has about
what happened to her daughter Kayla. It is a question the
supervisor--it is a question the American people have. Why is
this happening at this scale? Is it because--well, let me--give
me an answer, Chief, what you think the why is.
Chief Scott. The short answer is Catch and Release.
Chair Jordan. Yes.
Chief Scott. As long as people know they're going to be
released into the United States that is the prize. They don't
care about all the rest of the immigration process.
Chair Jordan. Until you change that fundamental incentive
that now exists you will not correct the problem, right?
Chief Scott. Correct.
Chair Jordan. This administration decided on day one--I
think this is so important for everyone to fully--on day one
they decided they were going to stop building the wall, as you
just talked about in your question--in response to the Chair.
They said we will stop building the wall. We are going to end
Remain in Mexico and we are going to release you once you get
here. They made that decision on day one. That says it all.
So, people come, and they say you know what, we won't have
to wait in Mexico. There is not going to be a wall to get over
and when we get in, we are going to get released to wherever we
want to go. Who wouldn't come to the greatest country ever?
Good people and a lot of bad people. Right?
It seems to me this administration made an intentional
decision to put in place policies that have led to everything
we have been talking about this morning. Do you agree, Chief?
Chief Scott. I agree with that. All the conversations I was
part of focused on expediting the release of people into the
United States. They were adamantly opposed to detention.
Chair Jordan. When you bring in, as the Chair just talked
about, two million who come here, are encountered, who are
released, another 1.5 million that we know came, but we didn't
actually get--they snuck in somehow, they got in somehow, 32
million people, there are going to be some and people in there.
Chief Scott. Statistically that is guaranteed.
Chair Jordan. Drug dealers, gang members, as Ms. Nobles
knows about all too well unfortunately, they are going to be
there. Also, terrorists. What is the number up to now? Like we
are close to like 100 people who have been on the Terrorist
Watchlist who have been encountered on our border because of an
intentional decision the Biden Administration made on January
20, 2021. Is that accurate, Chief?
Chief Scott. I believe that is accurate.
Chair Jordan. What is the solution?
Chief Scott. The solution is to put back in place
procedures that make sure that somebody has due process, that
they don't get the prize until a judge adjudicates the case.
You have to end Catch and Release. You can do that through
detention or you can do that through something like the Remain
in Mexico Program.
Chair Jordan. We want to let good people come to this
country. Legitimate asylum seekers, we went to let them in. You
know what our legislation did? It did what you just described.
It said when you come to this country you will either have to
wait in Mexico or we will detain you while we evaluate your
claim.
The Democrats say that is radical. That is common sense. If
we would have kept that policy Kayla may be alive today, but
because we didn't, all kinds of bad things happened.
That is what has to happen. Until the country understands
that, the Democrats understand that--it is just so basic: You
can't just let people come in the--you have to evaluate their
claim. While you are doing that they have to be detained or
they have to remain in some other country before we let them
come to the United States. That is the answer.
Chief Scott. That is the answer. It worked.
Chair Jordan. Worked before. It will work again. We just
have to have the will to put it back in place so that the bad
things we see happening all over the country won't continue.
Chief Scott. Correct.
Chair Jordan. With that I yield back, Mr. Chair.
Mr. McClintock. The Chair recognizes Mr. Hunt.
Mr. Hunt. First, I want to thank the witnesses for being
here today to discuss this very important topic that is facing
our Nation.
To you, ma'am, Ms. Nobles, I am so sorry for your loss. We
failed you. I am so sorry that you lost your daughter, and I
can assure you that you are sitting here today means that she
lives through you and we will do everything in our power to
make sure that her voice will be heard for the future to stop
this foolishness from happening again. Thank you for being
here, ma'am. I really appreciate it.
Ms. Nobles. Thank you.
Mr. Hunt. You might be wondering what this photo is behind
me. This is a photo of a room in a plush New York City tent
made specifically for migrants. There are Xboxes and flat
screens everywhere. Every creature comfort that you could think
of is in this tent. This tent is actually nicer than my room at
West Point. I wish I had this stuff.
My colleagues on the left often talk about the long arduous
journey to get to this country. I ask you this: Why would
illegal immigrants not make the journey to this country if this
was going to be the end result?
In this facility they get free room and board, flat
screens, three meals a day, free Internet, and phones. This is
the carrot that is bringing millions of illegal aliens to this
country at a time when this country can least afford it. For
the Democrats migrants jump to the top of the list while
Americans are consistently left behind.
Mayor Eric Adams never thought the border crisis would make
it to New York City and now even he has to admit that the Biden
open border policies have created a, quote, ``real-life
humanitarian crisis.'' I say again, a real-life humanitarian
crisis. Welcome to the party, sir.
Let me show you a real-life humanitarian crisis. It is
American cities due to Democrat policies. American cities had
been crumbling long before President Biden opened the border.
Now, that every town that we know of including New York City is
a border town, it is about to get worse.
This is Philadelphia. These are not illegal immigrants.
These are American cities currently living in abject poverty.
This situation is about to get worse.
Greetings from Gary, Indiana. Or is that eastern Ukraine?
It is hard to say, but I can guarantee you that if this were
eastern Ukraine the government would be printing as much money
as possible to help them, but not our own American citizens.
Not so good for the people of Gary, Indiana. This is not the
Dust Bowl or the Great Depression. This is yesterday. Our
situation is about to get worse.
It has been three months since the train derailment in East
Palestine and the people of East Palestine don't have the
necessary resources to rebuild and the community can't even
drink clean water today. Like Philadelphia and Gary, Indiana,
East Palestine, Ohio, is part of the forgotten America, the
Americans left behind as Democrats provide the American dream
to illegal aliens and not to our fellow Americans. I have got
news for you: It is going to continue to get worse.
We have San Mateo, California in California's 15th
Congressional District. If some of my colleagues would spend
more time in their districts instead of inside the Beltway,
they would see the destruction that their policies are causing
their own districts and their own towns. Perhaps then they
would have a different position on the southern border. It is
about to get worse.
Wait, there is more. This is Redwood City, California. Or
is it Tent City, California? Does this look like a country that
is thriving? Does this look like a country that is equipped to
handle a massive influx of millions more into this country
illegally? I think not. The situation is only going to get
worse.
This is the death of the America dream and it starts with a
carrot, as I discussed in the very beginning, and ends in
abject poverty and despair for Americans. It ends in us losing
control of our sovereign border. It ends with cartels running
our sovereign border and killing our young people. It ends in
fentanyl overdoses. It ends in crime.
I am a military guy by trade. I have never seen a derelict
of duty like this in my entire life. This is insanity. While we
owe the American people an apology, we also owe them to do our
damn jobs.
Thank you so much for being here.
With that, I yield back.
Thank you, ma'am. God bless you.
Ms. Nobles. Thank you.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
The Chair recognizes Mr. Swalwell of California.
Mr. Swalwell. Thank you, Chair.
I am proud to represent the 14th Congressional District of
California. I will tell the colleague of mine who represents
the 15th that he should probably come and defend his great
district because our two districts are some of the most
diverse, wealthiest, most educated places in America, and one
of the biggest complaints I have from my constituents is it is
too damn expensive to live there because there is too much
demand on housing.
So, we have got a housing crisis. We have got a congestion
crisis because of traffic. It doesn't look like a place that
nobody wants to live, but certainly with open hearts and open
minds we are doing everything we can to address immigration in
our country.
What I hear from my colleagues in this hearing is more
chaos, an appetite not for solutions, but an appetite to pander
to grievances. They don't want to solve the problem. That is
not worth anything to them politically. They want to stoke
fear. When the Border Patrol seizes fentanyl at the border, God
bless them. Thank them for doing that. They don't celebrate the
Border Patrol. They try and use that to own the libs, and clap
back at Joe Biden.
Where I come from when cops do their job and catch the bad
guys and take drugs off the street, we thank them. We don't use
them as political tools because we don't have any ideas or
solutions when it comes to immigration.
When they say we are a country of open borders, that
doesn't recognize the thousands of Border Patrol agents who
work on the border, work hard every day and are trying to make
sure we can secure the border. What it does is it invites
people to believe that the borders are open, and it invites
more immigration to our country. Again, they don't want to
solve this problem.
If they wanted to solve this problem, they would have
brought to the floor the comprehensive immigration bill from
2014 where 68 Republican and Democratic senators voted to
secure the border, to put 20-plus-thousand more border agents
on the border, to have a pathway for earned citizenship, to
take care of the dreamers who came here by no fault of their
own. Republicans and Democrats voted for that. They walked away
from it. So, this is really just more border theater, not
border solutions.
Mr. Hetfield, thank you for being a serious participant in
this process. I would just like to ask you, if we had passed
that comprehensive immigration bill, the bipartisan bill back
in 2014 where the most conservative Members of the Senate
joined some of the most liberal Members of the Senate, where
would be today as far as immigration in America?
Mr. Hetfield. There's no panacea, but we'd be in a much,
much better place. We would have a fighting chance to address
this issue. I mean, Congress has not passed immigration reform
about legal pathways since 1990. We barely had the--we didn't
have the Internet then, right? Most people didn't have
computers then. This was a totally different world and that
illegal pathways have been totally ignored for 33 years.
Mr. Swalwell. Talk to me about a shortage of labor. I see
this in all sectors across my district. I see it in childcare,
I see it in tourism, I see it in hospitality, I see in
construction. I have got 50-plus wineries in my district. I see
it with the wineries when harvest comes. What would an earned
pathway or a skilled workforce pathway mean for addressing
labor shortages that only lead to every one of my constituents
having to pay more for the goods and services they consume?
Mr. Hetfield. Yes, that's exactly right. Like we need legal
pathways, so that people can take jobs that American citizens
are not willing to take. There has been no movement in that
area in decades.
People are not coming here to bring fentanyl and to kill
people. They're coming here primarily to work and to seek
protection. We need a system that actually identifies the
people that are coming here for legitimate purposes and to give
them legal pathways to do that and to identify the bad actors.
We don't have that right now. Our system is totally out of
control because we have not resourced
--we have not resourced it.
Mr. Swalwell. Thank you. Yield back.
Mr. McClintock. The gentleman yields back.
If there is no further business to come before the
Subcommittee, that will conclude our hearing.
I would like to thank our witnesses again for appearing
before the Committee today.
Without objection, all Members will have five legislative
days to submit additional written questions for the witnesses
or additional materials for the record.
Without objection, the hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 12:13 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
All materials submitted for the record by Members of the
Subcommittee on Immigration Integrity, Security, and
Enforcement can be found at the following links: https://
docs.house.gov/
Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=115998.
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