[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
REAUTHORIZING THE WEATHER ACT:
USERS OF WEATHER DATA AND AREAS
FOR IMPROVEMENT BY SECTOR
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
AND TECHNOLOGY
OF THE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JUNE 6, 2023
__________
Serial No. 118-15
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
52-327 PDF WASHINGTON : 2024
COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY
HON. FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida ZOE LOFGREN, California, Ranking
RANDY WEBER, Texas Member
BRIAN BABIN, Texas SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
JIM BAIRD, Indiana HALEY STEVENS, Michigan
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
MIKE GARCIA, California DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
JAY OBERNOLTE, California ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina
DARRELL ISSA, California KEVIN MULLIN, California
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas JEFF JACKSON, North Carolina
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York EMILIA SYKES, Ohio
RYAN ZINKE, Montana MAXWELL FROST, Florida
SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida YADIRA CARAVEO, Colorado
DALE STRONG, Alabama SUMMER LEE, Pennsylvania
MAX MILLER, Ohio JENNIFER McCLELLAN, Virginia
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia TED LIEU, California
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia SEAN CASTEN, Illinois,
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York Vice Ranking Member
TOM KEAN, New Jersey PAUL TONKO, New York
VACANCY
------
Subcommittee on Environment
HON. MAX MILLER, Ohio, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina,
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas Ranking Member
RYAN ZINKE, Montana SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia MAXWELL FROST, Florida
C O N T E N T S
June 6, 2023
Page
Hearing Charter.................................................. 2
Opening Statements
Statement by Representative Max Miller, Chairman, Subcommittee on
Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S.
House of Representatives....................................... 6
Written Statement............................................ 7
Statement by Representative Deborah Ross, Ranking Member,
Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and
Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...................... 7
Written Statement............................................ 8
Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Chairman, Committee on
Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives.. 9
Written Statement............................................ 10
Statement by Representative Zoe Lofgren, Ranking Member,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of
Representatives................................................ 11
Written Statement............................................ 11
Witnesses:
Mr. Gary McManus, State Climatologist, Oklahoma Climatological
Survey
Oral Statement............................................... 13
Written Statement............................................ 16
Ms. Jeanine Jones, Interstate Resources Manager, California
Department of Water Resources
Oral Statement............................................... 21
Written Statement............................................ 23
Mr. Eric Snodgrass, Senior Fellow Scientist and Principal
Atmospheric Scientist, Nutrien
Oral Statement............................................... 32
Written Statement............................................ 34
Dr. Kathie Dello, Ph.D., State Climatologist of North Carolina,
and Co-Director, NOAA Carolinas Climate Adaptation Partnership
(CAP/RISA)
Oral Statement............................................... 45
Written Statement............................................ 47
Discussion....................................................... 58
Appendix: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Mr. Gary McManus, State Climatologist, Oklahoma Climatological
Survey......................................................... 72
Ms. Jeanine Jones, Interstate Resources Manager, California
Department of Water Resources.................................. 78
Mr. Eric Snodgrass, Senior Fellow Scientist and Principal
Atmospheric Scientist, Nutrien................................. 79
Dr. Kathie Dello, Ph.D., State Climatologist of North Carolina,
and Co-Director, NOAA Carolinas Climate Adaptation Partnership
(CAP/RISA)..................................................... 81
REAUTHORIZING THE WEATHER ACT:
USERS OF WEATHER DATA AND AREAS
FOR IMPROVEMENT BY SECTOR
----------
TUESDAY, JUNE 6, 2023
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Environment,
Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
Washington, D.C.
The Subcommittee met , pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m.,
in room 2318, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Max Miller
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Miller. The Committee will come to order. Without
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recesses of the
Committee at any time.
Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``Reauthorizing the
Weather Act: Users of Weather Data and Areas for Improvement by
Sector.'' I recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening
statement.
I want to welcome everyone to this morning's hearing,
``Reauthorizing the Weather Act: Users of Weather Data and
Areas for Improvement by Sector.'' This is the Environment
Subcommittee's second hearing this Congress on reauthorizing
the Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act of 2017, an
important effort for the Committee at large. Today's hearing
continues our examination of U.S. weather policy and how best
to update the crucial work started by the Weather Act 6 years
ago.
In March, we had the privilege of hearing from innovators
from the commercial sector on the advancements they have made
in collecting weather data. Today, we will hear from witnesses
who utilize all of this raw weather data to inform the public
about imminent storms, what the weather is going to be like
days from now, and what conditions we can expect over the
course of an entire season. So it's easy to see that weather
data doesn't just help determine the day's clothing. It
enhances our national economy by assisting long-term
decisionmaking, and it helps protect lives and property.
It should go without saying there are serious economic and
humanitarian implications to not only being able to predict
weather correctly or precisely, and we cannot afford to let the
United States be in such a position. From my conversations with
farmers back home in Ohio, I know that seasonal weather
predictions are vital to American agriculture. Without accurate
predictions in this sector, seasonal planting and harvesting is
put at major risk.
As we will hear today, regional data isn't enough for
subseasonal to seasonal (S2S) forecasting. Accurate long-term
prediction requires knowledge of weather patterns around the
world, such as El Nino or La Nina. The purpose of today's
hearing is to get an idea of how our witnesses will utilize
both Federal and private data to achieve these accurate
predictions, and we'll hear how that data improves our short-
term forecasting and our ability to protect the public from
deadly weather events.
Whether the data comes from NOAA (National Oceanic and
Atmospheric Administration), State services, or commercial
providers, we must ensure that all tools at our disposal are
used to make the public aware of extreme weather conditions.
Just last week, the Atlantic hurricane season officially kicked
off with NOAA predicting one to four hurricanes will be
classified as a major hurricane. And while this prediction is a
near normal season, our goal every year should be to prepare
the public in a way that no lives are lost as a result of these
events.
Though--through innovation to improve the accuracy and
timeliness of weather models, as well as public awareness, we
can save lives and property. This hearing and ultimately the
Weather Act reauthorization will identify actionable items NOAA
can pursue to build trust and education in weather forecasting
products. When an E4 tornado, EF4 tornado, or a category 3
hurricane is bearing down on the United States citizens, there
should be no doubt on what the best course of action is.
Additionally, by working together and increasing partnerships
between NOAA and the commercial sector, the users of weather
data will be better equipped to strengthen both short- and
long-term weather predictions, benefiting all Americans across
all sectors.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here. I look
forward to each of your testimonies.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Miller follows:]
I want to welcome everybody to this morning's hearing,
Reauthorizing the Weather Act: Users of Weather Data and Areas
for Improvement by Sector. This is the Environment
Subcommittee's second hearing this Congress on reauthorizing
the Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act of 2017, an
important effort for the Committee at large.
Today's hearing continues our examination of U.S. weather
policy and how best to update the crucial work started by the
Weather Act six years ago. In March, we had the privilege of
hearing from innovators from the commercial sector on the
advancements they have made in collecting weather data.
Today, we will hear from witnesses who utilize all this raw
weather data to inform the public about imminent storms, what
the weather is going to be like days from now, and what
conditions we can expect over the course of an entire season.
So it's easy to see that weather data doesn't just help
determine the day's clothing. It enhances our national economy
by assisting long term decision making and it helps protect
lives and property. It should go without saying there are
serious economic and humanitarian implications to not being
able to predict weather correctly or precisely, and we cannot
afford to let the United States be in such a position.
From my conversations with farmers back home in Ohio, I
know that seasonal weather predictions are vital to American
agriculture. Without accurate predictions in this sector,
seasonal planting and harvesting is put at major risk.
As we will hear today, regional data isn't enough for
subseasonal to seasonal forecasting. Accurate long-term
prediction requires knowledge of weather patterns around the
world, such as El Nino or La Nina.
The purpose of today's hearing is to get an idea of how our
witnesses utilize both federal and private data to achieve
these accurate predictions. And we'll hear how that data
improves our short-term forecasting and our ability to protect
the public from deadly weather events.
Whether the data comes from NOAA, state services, or
commercial providers, we must ensure that all tools at our
disposal are used to make the public aware of extreme weather
conditions.
Just last week, the Atlantic hurricane season officially
kicked off, with NOAA predicting one to four hurricanes will be
classified as a major hurricane.
And while this prediction is a ``near-normal'' season, our
goal every year should be to prepare the public in a way that
no lives are lost as a result of these events.
Through innovation to improve the accuracy and timeliness
of weather models, as well as public awareness, we can save
lives and property.
This hearing, and ultimately the Weather Act
Reauthorization, will identify actionable items NOAA can pursue
to build trust and education in weather forecasting products.
When an EF-4 tornado or a Category 3 hurricane is bearing down
on U.S. citizens, there should be no doubt on what the best
course of action is.
Additionally, by working together and increasing
partnerships between NOAA and the commercial sector, the
``users'' of weather data will be better equipped to strengthen
both short- and long-term weather predictions, benefitting all
Americans across all sectors.
I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here. I look
forward to each of your testimonies.
Chairman Miller. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the
gentlewoman from North Carolina, for an opening statement.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chairman Miller, for convening this
important hearing considering the many users of weather data,
and thank you to our witnesses for joining us this morning to
share your expertise. I'm especially excited that North
Carolina's own State Climatologist, Dr. Kathie Dello, is
joining us today, and she's my neighbor, too. We live less than
a mile away.
Weather data is critical for informing decisions and
protecting American lives and property daily. A wide variety of
users benefit from NOAA's weather and climate data. Emergency
response agencies inform their decisionmaking by closely
following seasonal outlooks and weather forecasts. Weather
resource managers rely on accurate forecasts along--across
timescales to guide everything from permitting and negotiations
to resource distribution and reservoir management.
Directly relevant to my home State of North Carolina and
many of those represented by this Committee is the critical
application of NOAA's data to the agricultural industry. High
quality weather data is paramount for protecting yields and
managing water and fertilizer use. Furthermore, global weather
and climate data provided by NOAA is used to predict the yields
and agricultural market performance of our international
partners and our adversaries.
Lastly, but certainly not least, is the critical
application of NOAA's weather and climate data to furthering
coastal resilience across the United States. At the forefront
of providing these data is NOAA's National Weather Service.
From generating long-term hurricane season outlooks to short-
term weather forecasts, the National Weather Service does it
all. Mandated by policy NOAA provides open access weather and
climate data services worldwide. In fact, NOAA's products and
services are recognized as being some of the most user friendly
and accessible of any Federal agency.
Additionally, NOAA promotes and facilitates the flow of
these data and services to many users. For example, NOAA's
Climate Adaptation Partnership (CAP) Program facilitates
collaborative partnerships with extension networks, State and
local governments, and other organizations to help improve and
disseminate NOAA data and services to users. Key to these
efforts is tailoring information to the needs of communities
and addressing inequities.
I look forward to hearing about Dr. Dello's experiences
giving--given her wealth of knowledge working with constituents
and data users across sectors while developing and leading both
Oregon's and North Carolina's CAP programs.
In short, NOAA's contribution to providing weather and
climate data services worldwide cannot be understated. As each
user tackles unique problems that vary in scope and
application, it's critical that the vast needs of users of
public data are considered. With worsening climate change and
weather events looming, ensuring quality data is available to
the many users is paramount to protecting the American people.
I'm eager to hear from our witnesses today on their
experiences using NOAA's climate and weather data and how
Congress can support the improvement of its quality, quantity,
and availability.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Ross follows:]
Thank you, Chairman Miller, for convening this important
hearing considering the many users of weather data, and thank
you to our witnesses for joining us this morning to share your
expertise. I am especially excited that North Carolina's own
State Climatologist, Dr. Kathie Dello, is joining us today.
Weather data is critical for informing decisions and
protecting American lives and property daily. A wide variety of
users benefit from NOAA's weather and climate data. Emergency
response agencies inform their decision-making by closely
following seasonal outlooks and weather forecasts. Water
resource managers rely on accurate forecasts across timescales
to guide everything from permitting and negotiations to
resource distribution and reservoir management.
Directly relevant to my home state of North Carolina, and
many of those represented by this committee, is the critical
application of NOAA's data to the agricultural industry. High-
quality weather data is paramount for predicting yields and
managing water and fertilizer use.Furthermore, global weather
and climate data provided by NOAA is used to predict the yields
and agricultural market performance of our international
partners and adversaries.
Last but certainly not least is the critical application of
NOAA's weather and climate data to furthering coastal
resilience across the U.S. At the forefront of providing these
data is NOAA's National Weather Service. From generating long-
term hurricane season outlooks to short-term weather forecasts,
the NWS does it all. Mandated by policy, NOAA provides open
access weather and climate data and services worldwide. In
fact, NOAA's products and services are recognized as being some
of the most user-friendly and accessible of any federal
agency.Additionally, NOAA promotes and facilitates the flow of
these data and services to its many users.
For example, NOAA's Climate Adaptation Partnerships Program
facilitates collaborative partnerships with extension networks,
state and local governments, and other organizations to help
improve and disseminate NOAA data and services to users. Key to
these efforts is tailoring information to the needs of
communities and addressing inequities. I look forward to
hearing about Dr. Dello's experiences given her wealth of
knowledge working with constituents and data users across
sectors while developing and leading both Oregon's and North
Carolina's CAP programs.
In short, NOAA's contributions to providing weather and
climate data and services worldwide cannot be understated. As
each user tackles unique problems that vary in scope and
application, it is critical that the vast needs of the users of
public data are considered. With worsening climate change and
weather events looming, ensuring quality data is available to
its many users is paramount to protecting the American people.
I am eager to hear from our witnesses today on their
experiences using NOAA's climate and weather data and how
Congress can support the improvement of its quality, quantity,
and availability.
Thank you, and I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Ross.
I now recognize the Chairman of the Committee, the
gentleman from Oklahoma, for an opening statement.
Chairman Lucas. And I want to thank the gentleman from
Ohio, Mr. Miller, for holding today's hearing.
As a rancher in Tornado Alley, weather data is vital to me
and all Oklahomans. While the Weather Act had an immediate
positive effect, we still have work to do if we want to be the
most accurate, trusted source of forecasting in the world.
Since taking over as Chairman of the Committee, I prioritized
reauthorizing the Weather Act, and this hearing is another step
toward finalizing that bill.
A critical component of the Weather Act reauthorization
will be improving subseasonal and seasonal research and
forecasting. This area of weather research is extremely
important to farmers and ranchers whose livelihoods are subject
to precipitation patterns. Better forecasting means better
decisions on planting, managing crops, which translates into
more food for America.
I'm pleased to have an Oklahoma representative here to
discuss our State's weather and climate services, including the
Mesonet system. I take a lot of pride in the fact that this
system is the gold standard in the country, and the Committee
looks forward to hearing more details about how the data is
updated, processed, and communicated to the public.
As we have seen through the years, the impacts of weather
are far too important not to strive for the very best tools.
Protecting life and property, helping first responders during
extreme weather events, and ensuring farmers and ranchers have
the best data are only a few of the reasons we--having the most
accurate weather forecast is paramount. It's encouraging to see
the progress that NOAA and the private sector have made to help
each other since the Weather Act of 2017. And don't get me
wrong, they are indeed helping each other. It goes both ways.
But even as we sit here today, 6 years after the passage of the
first Weather Act, I believe there's still much more we can do
for NOAA to maximize the innovations our country has to offer.
So as we look forward to reauthorize the Weather Act, I'll push
to continue this growth and expand the options and resources
NOAA has to improve their long-term weather models and
forecasts.
Today's hearing is important because it allows us to
examine a wide range of sectors that utilize all different
types of weather data. It's a diverse group of the weather
community, but they share many of the same needs from NOAA.
Their input will help us ensure the direction and the resources
we provide to NOAA end up benefiting the most Americans, as
intended.
I thank our witnesses for sharing their expertise with us
today, and I look forward to a productive discussion. Thank
you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Lucas follows:]
I want to thank the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Miller, for
holding today's hearing. As a rancher in tornado alley, weather
data is vital to me and all Oklahomans.
While the Weather Act had an immediate positive impact, we
still have work to do if we want to be the most accurate and
trusted source of forecasting in the world.
Since taking over as Chairman of the Committee, I've
prioritized reauthorizing the Weather Act, and this hearing is
another step towards finalizing that bill.
A crucial component of the Weather Act reauthorization will
be improving subseasonal to seasonal research and forecasting.
This area of weather research is extremely important to farmers
and ranchers whose livelihoods are subject to precipitation
patterns.
Better forecasting means better decisions on planting and
managing crops, which translates to more food for America.
I am pleased to have Oklahoma representation here to
discuss our state's weather and climate services, including the
mesonet system. I take a lot of pride in the fact that this
system is the gold standard in the country and the committee
looks forward to hearing more details on how the data is
updated, processed, and communicated to the public.
As we have seen through the years, the impacts of weather
are far too important to not strive for the very best tools.
Protecting life and property, helping first responders during
extreme weather events, and ensuring farmers and ranchers have
the best data are only a few of the reasons having the most
accurate weather forecasts is paramount.
It's encouraging to see the progress NOAA and the private
sector have made to help each other since the Weather Act in
2017. And don't get me wrong, they are indeed helping each
other. It goes both ways.
But even as we sit here today, six years after the passage
of the first Weather Act, I believe there is still much more we
can do for NOAA to maximize the innovations our country has to
offer.
So, as we look to reauthorize the Weather Act, I will push
to continue this growth and expand the options and resources
NOAA has to improve their long-term weather models and
forecasts.
Today's hearing is important because it allows us to
examine a wide range of sectors that utilize all different
types of weather data. It's a diverse group of the weather
community but they share many of the same needs from NOAA.
Their input will help us ensure the direction and resources we
provide to NOAA end up benefiting the most Americans, as
intended.
I thank our witnesses for sharing their expertise with us
and I look forward to a productive discussion. Thank you and I
yield back Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Lucas.
I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Committee, the
gentlewoman from California, for an opening statement.
Ms. Lofgren. Well, thanks to you, Chairman Miller, and also
to Ranking Member Ross for this second in a series of hearings
on the National Weather Act. Of particular interest to my
district in California and especially the rural parts of my
district is the subseasonal to seasonal forecasting that
enables communities, water resource managers, and farmers to
plan ahead. As Ms. Jones notes in her testimony, the West is
increasingly experiencing climate change-driven extremes. It
seems like we go from historic drought to historic flooding,
and both are taking a toll on our communities.
We have to take aggressive steps to ameliorate climate
change, but we also need to take steps to adapt to it, and that
starts with having the data and the models required to
understand how the changing climate is affecting weather
patterns beyond the next few days. At stake are both lives and
livelihoods, and I look forward to hearing the experts on this
panel about that.
Now, where agriculture is particularly important in my
district, there isn't a sector of our economy that doesn't use
the National Weather Service's data and data products. The
National Weather Service is very well-regarded, as the Chairman
has just said, and for good reason. However, that doesn't mean
there isn't room for improvement, and in addition to learning
more about subseasonal or seasonal forecasting, I'm interested
in all the recommendations from this panel for improving the
National Weather Service's data, models, and communication.
Now, given the witnesses before us, all of whom are quite
expert, this hearing is a very good opportunity to discuss
Federal climate change services and how they can be
strengthened to support States, farmers, those who fish,
business owners, infrastructure owners, city planners, and just
plain individuals in preparing for a changing climate in the
region they reside in.
Even as climate change is accelerating beyond predictions
of just a few years ago, we still have a long way to go to
build a robust national climate service. While multiple
agencies have a role in contributing to a national climate
service in whatever form that may take, NOAA's role is
certainly central. Fortunately, the Biden Administration is
making this a priority. They have released a Federal Framework
and National Action Plan for Climate Services, and while I hope
this Committee holds hearing specifically on national climate
services in the coming months, today's hearing can also help
inform us on how NOAA's current climate services are being
utilized and about unmet needs for climate services across
those sectors.
Again, I want to thank the Chairman and Ranking Member of
the Subcommittee, as well as the Chairman of the Committee, for
this hearing. I look forward to it, and I yield back.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]
Good morning. Thank you to Chairman Miller and Ranking
Member Ross for holding this 2nd in a series of hearings
exploring issues for reauthorization of the National Weather
Act. Today's hearing features users of NOAA's weather and
climate data with expertise relevant to a range of sectors,
from agriculture- to water management- to transportation.
Of particular interest to my district- and especially the
rural parts of my district- is the subseasonal to seasonal
forecasting that enables communities, water resource managers,
and farmers to plan ahead. As Ms. Jones notes in her testimony,
the West is increasingly experiencing climate change driven
extremes, from severe drought to catastrophic flooding. In
addition to taking aggressive steps to mitigate climate change,
we must also take all necessary steps to adapt to the changing
climate. That starts with having the data and models required
to understand how the changing climate is affecting weather
patterns beyond the next few days. At stake are both lives and
livelihoods. I look forward to hearing the expert panel's
recommendations for improving subseasonal to seasonal
forecasting.
While agriculture is particularly important to my district,
there isn't a sector of our economy that doesn't use the
National Weather Service's data and data products. The National
Weather Service is extremely well regarded, and for good
reason. However, that does not mean there is no room for
improvement. In addition to learning more about subseasonal to
seasonal forecasting, I'm interested in all recommendations
from this panel for improving the National Weather Service's
data, models, and communication.
Given the witnesses before us, this hearing is also a good
opportunity to discuss Federal climate services and how they
can be strengthened to support states, farmers, fishers,
business owners, infrastructure owners, city planners, and
individuals in preparing for a changing climate in their
region. Even as climate change is accelerating beyond the
predictions of just a few years ago, we still have a long way
to go to build a robust national climate service. While
multiple agencies have a role in contributing to a national
climate service, in whatever form that may take, NOAA's role is
central.
Fortunately, we have an Administration that is making this
a priority. This past March the Biden Administration released a
Federal Framework and National Action Plan for Climate
Services. While I hope this Committee holds hearings
specifically on a national climate service in the coming
months, today's hearing can also help inform us how NOAA's
current climate services are being utilized, and of the unmet
needs for climate services across sectors.
Thank you to the expert panel for being here this morning.
I look forward to your testimony and the discussion. I yield
back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Lofgren.
Let me introduce our witnesses. Our first witness today is
Mr. Gary McManus. He joined the Oklahoma Climatological Survey
in May of 1999 and currently serves as the State Climatologist
for Oklahoma. Gary is Editor-in-Chief of Oklahoma's Monthly
Climate Summaries and has done extensive research cataloging
Oklahoma's weather hazards.
Our second witness is Ms. Jeanine Jones. She is the
Interstate Resources Manager for the California Department of
Water Resources (DWR). She is a member and past chair of the
Western States Water Council, whom she is representing today.
She is a designee on the Colorado River Board of California and
a registered civil engineer in California and Nevada. She has
more than 40 years of experience in water resources management
with extensive background in drought preparedness and response.
Our third witness is Mr. Eric Snodgrass. He is the Senior
Fellow Scientist and Principal Atmospheric Scientist for
Nutrien's retail division, Nutrien Ag Solutions, where he
develops predictive and analytical software solutions to manage
weather risk for global production agriculture. He is the
cofounder of Global Weather and Climate Logistic LLC and
Agrible Inc., which were both acquired by Nutrien Ag Solutions
in 2018. From 2006 to 2019, Eric was the Director of
Undergraduate Studies for the Department of Atmospheric
Sciences at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign,
where he taught over 20,000 students across a wide range of
coursework in atmospheric science.
I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Environment
Subcommittee, the gentlewoman from North Carolina, for the
introduction of our final witness.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chairman Miller. And it's my honor
today to introduce one of my constituents, Dr. Kathie Dello. Dr
Dello is North Carolina's own Director and State Climatologist
at the North Carolina State Climate Office at North Carolina
State University. Go Pack. She is also the codirector of NOAA
Carolina's Climate Adaptation Partnership Program. Prior to
coming to North Carolina, she was the Associate Director of the
Oregon Climate Change Research Institute and Deputy Director of
the Oregon Climate Service for nearly 10 years. Dr. Dello
earned her Ph.D. in environmental sciences from Oregon State
University, a master's in geography, and a bachelor's in
atmospheric science both from the State University of New York
at Albany.
Throughout her career, Dr. Dello has been a champion in
fighting against climate change specifically in the areas of
climate resilience, planning, and impacts assessment. Not only
does she contribute to research and large-scale climate
assessment reports such as the Fifth National Climate
Assessment, she is also actively involved in efforts to make
science relevant to the broader public.
A proficient science communicator, she often works with
local and State--local, State, and national media, State
government, NGOs (non-governmental organizations), and climate
organizations. Oftentimes, scientific knowledge is lost in
translation, and important information goes unused by those who
need it most. Bridging the gap between science and the public
is critical for ensuring Americans are well-informed and
equipped to tackle the challenges of climate change and extreme
weather events.
That's why scientists like Dr. Dello who are bridging these
gaps are so important for our communities. Given her expertise
as a climate--in climate science and passion for making science
accessible and informative for a vast array of constituents,
I'm eager to hear from her today. Please join me in welcoming
Dr. Dello.
And I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Ross.
Welcome to all the witnesses, and thank you for being here
today. It truly is an honor.
I now recognize Mr. Gary McManus for 5 minutes to present
his testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. GARY McMANUS,
STATE CLIMATOLOGIST,
OKLAHOMA CLIMATOLOGICAL SURVEY
Mr. McManus. Good morning, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member
Ross, Chairman Lucas, and Ranking Member Lofgren and all other
Members of the Subcommittee, and thank you for the opportunity
to testify today.
I'm a third-generation Okie, born and raised in the high
plains of western Oklahoma in the small town of Buffalo just to
the north of Chairman Lucas's small town of Cheyenne where he
was--his hometown. I work as a State Climatologist at the
Oklahoma Climatological Survey and the National Weather Center
on the campus of the University of Oklahoma for a State that
has had by far more FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency)-
declared disasters than any other State since the year 2000.
It's my job to interpret all manner of weather and climate
data--Federal, State, local, or commercial--and disseminate
that to the State's decisionmakers and citizens to help protect
lives, livelihoods, and property.
Much of that work is accomplished using data from the
Oklahoma Mesonet, which is jointly operated by Oklahoma State
University (OSU) and the University of Oklahoma. The Mesonet
was established 30 years ago both to address the needs for
improved severe weather warnings and to improve our ability to
research and better understand the weather, especially in
Oklahoma. We have one or more stations in each of our 77
counties so that, no matter where you are in Oklahoma, we have
local, real-time observations without--within about 10 miles of
your location.
The Mesonet's partnership gives us access to a synthesis of
world-class meteorological and agricultural expertise from the
two universities. In just the past 2 years, the Oklahoma
Mesonet's outreach programs have trained users and
decisionmakers from 495 agencies across Oklahoma. These groups
span the gamut from tribal organizations to public schools, to
city and county entities, to State and Federal agencies.
Mesonet data are used to improve production and optimize
inputs for crops and livestock and protect them from many
pests, diseases, and environmental conditions detrimental to
their growth and development. I use the Mesonet weather and
soil moisture data weekly as Oklahoma's main contributor to the
U.S. Drought Monitor, a vitally important chore due to the
agricultural aid triggered by the drought monitors depiction.
Drought verification with Mesonet rainfall and soil moisture
data has helped bring more than $1 billion in Federal aid to
Oklahomans suffering from drought and its impact since the year
2011.
The Mesonet employs an OSU Extension Specialist for direct
outreach with the agricultural community, as well as an OSU
fire weather expert. Our OK fire outreach program has trained
nearly 2,000 wildland fire managers and firefighters on
weather's impact on wildfire suppression, prescribed burning,
and smoke management. The Oklahoma Mesonet's real-time forecast
fire danger products are used by fire departments, emergency
managers, State and Federal agencies, private organizations,
and private landowners.
The Mesonet's public safety outreach program OK-First has
trained over 2,000 emergency managers, police, fire, and public
health professionals to use our data to help keep Oklahomans
safe. This program provides Oklahoma's public safety community
with weather education and access to critical real-time weather
data, and not just the Mesonet data, but also the NOAA data as
well.
The Oklahoma Mesonet is a proud member of NOAA's National
Mesonet Program, along with other universities and State
Mesonets and additional partners. The National Mesonet Program
has proven to be a successful public-private partnership model
in which the Federal Government can leverage tens of thousands
of additional real-time weather observations from across the
Nation without having to maintain and operate them. This allows
forecasters to use these additional data to improve weather
models, and thus every community's weather forecast. It's
essential that Congress and the Administration support and
expand the national Mesonet to ensure that local forecasters
have access to these highly localized weather data.
Now, how has the Oklahoma Mesonet and NOAA data impacted me
personally? On May 20, 2013, my day began in Moore, Oklahoma,
filled with anxiety. A severe weather outbreak the day before
spawned several strong tornadoes across central Oklahoma,
leaving two dead, 14 injured, and a swath of destruction in
their path. More high and severe weather was predicted for that
day. Using a combination of NOAA high resolution computer
models and Oklahoma Mesonet data, the forecasters at the Norman
National Weather Service office managed to pinpoint the
location and counties with the highest tornado threat for that
day. Now, this enabled me to go get my kids from their
elementary school and daycare in Moore and take them home,
where we later huddled in our storm shelter as an EF5 monster
churned through our neighborhood, our school system, and our
hometown. That violent tornado ended up killing 24 people,
including seven children at Plaza Towers Elementary School.
I remain eternally grateful for the scale and expertise of
the National Weather Service forecasters that day and for the
Oklahoma Mesonet data that help guide their abilities, the very
same Oklahoma Mesonet that I work for and whose data I turn--I
in turn use to help keep people safe.
Thank you, and I welcome any questions you might have for
me.
[The prepared statement of Mr. McManus follows:]
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Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. McManus.
I now recognize Ms. Jeanine Jones for five minutes to
present her testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MS. JEANINE JONES,
INTERSTATE RESOURCES MANAGER,
CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES
Ms. Jones. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, Subcommittee
Members, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. I'm
here on behalf of the Western States Water Council to talk
about the importance of subseasonal to seasonal forecasting for
water management in the West, where we're characterized by
extreme variability in precipitation from year to year, as well
as within a year. And, as the Committee Chairman said, we still
have much work to do in parts of the Weather Act, and this is
definitely one of those areas.
Now, from a water management perspective, lead time is very
important for us because most of our critical water management
decisions aren't made within the span of a 7- to 10-day weather
forecast. They're made at much longer lead times. And frankly,
the most important, most costly, and some of the most
significant decisions are made at lead times of many months. So
this is an area that is very important for improving our
efficiency in water management and especially for responding to
extremes of droughts and floods, which we have seen all too
much of in the West recently.
Now, unfortunately, this is an area where the operational
outlooks produced by the National Weather Service have very
little skill. The example included in my testimony shows a map
of the historical skill for the winter months when
precipitation is most important for us. And on this map, what
it shows is that there is essentially no better skill than
predicting average weather conditions for much of the country,
including much of the West. And for us these maps are
unfortunately rather similar to a horoscope in that they
essentially are something that you look at for interest or
entertainment, but you can't use it to make a decision. And
this is what we really need is the improved ability to make
decisions.
And it's been particularly critical that there have been
some very significant misses in the outlooks in some of our
most extreme years. I refer back to, for example, water year
2016, which was the fifth year of a then deg.ve-year drought in
California, when we also had the--what was famously called
Godzilla El Nino, one of the strongest El Nino events on
record. Much chatter in the news media based on the forecasts
being made at the time that southern California, for example,
was going to need Noah's Ark because it was going to be so wet.
And in fact, what happened, we continued in drought. So, you
know, a completely missed forecast.
And as we saw this year in water year 23 in California, we
went from what had been our three driest consecutive years of
record to one of our wettest years of record, something that
was also missed in these seasonal outlooks. And it's these
extremes that are very important for water management to allow
water agencies, the agricultural producers that we serve, the
cities that we serve to make important decisions about managing
their assets.
And, you know, we really look forward to opportunities to
improve S2S forecasting. And in 2020, pursuant to the Weather
Act, NOAA submitted a report to Congress with recommendations
to do so that included pilot projects to improve forecasting,
including a pilot for Western winter precip and for central
U.S. summer precip, which is important for agriculture. And we
have--we at California DWR have been funding some seed money
research toward this effort for a while, including funding NASA
(National Aeronautics and Space Administration), NOAA, and
academic centers. And this research has shown that there is
opportunity for improvement, even from a project that we funded
NOAA's Boulder labs to do, which had better skill with a
statistical model than their national multi-model ensemble.
So clearly, you know, there is opportunity here. We just
need to make the investment in the research that's needed to
get there. So we very much encourage the Subcommittee and the
Full Committee to consider including NOAA's recommended pilot
projects in Weather Act reauthorization. This is very important
to have something that says, well, here's a pilot project that
if you do this with these metrics to improve operational
forecasts, we really could have some success here, which will
help us as water managers better manage our resources, and it
also contributes to climate change adaptation because this is a
necessary tool for that.
So with that, I would wrap up, thank the Committee for the
opportunity to speak today.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Jones follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Jones.
I now recognize Mr. Eric Snodgrass for 5 minutes to present
his testimony.
TESTIMONY OF MR. ERIC SNODGRASS,
SENIOR FELLOW SCIENTIST
AND PRINCIPAL ATMOSPHERIC SCIENTIST, NUTRIEN
Mr. Snodgrass. Chairman Lucas, Ranking Member Lofgren,
Chairman Miller, Ranking Miller--excuse me, Ranking Member
Ross, and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the
opportunity to testify today and speak on the use of weather
data in agriculture. My name is Eric Snodgrass, and I'm the
Senior Science Fellow and Principal Atmospheric Scientist at
Nutrien, the world's largest provider of crop inputs and
services.
As a global agriculture retailer, our aim is to provide
everything the farmer needs at the farm level through our over
1,200 retail locations worldwide--or nationwide. My role in
this industry is to provide accurate and timely weather
forecast information, which is critically important to every
decision our grower customers make. At present, my forecasts
are delivered to over 25,000 farmers daily. I maintain an ag
weather website with four terabytes of traffic each month and
speak at over 120 conferences and grower meetings each year on
weather risk and production agriculture. Accurate and timely
weather forecasts that our farmer customers rely on and are
dependent on and that is accurate and timely weather data is a
critical part of them.
Weather risk is ubiquitous in agriculture. In a recent
survey published by the University of Illinois' farmdocDAILY, a
widely read publication in the agricultural community, weather
was identified as the main source of risk for farmers by more
than double the next highest category, which was output price.
The United States has nearly 900 million acres of farmland
that contributes over $1.26 trillion of the U.S. economy, and
it is the uniqueness of the geography of this country that
creates the variety of weather that sustains U.S. agriculture.
The atmosphere can be unforgiving at times. High impact weather
events like the Midwest tornado outbreak on March 31 of this
year or the derecho that hit Iowa in 2020 or the drought of
fall of 2022 that dropped the Mississippi River to historic
levels or the present--or the persistent--excuse me--onshore
flow of the atmospheric rivers (ARs) that hit the West Coast
this January and March, delivering over 900 inches of snow to
some Western mountains, these determine the success of U.S.
crops.
We often focus on NOAA's lifesaving efforts in each of
these events, which is unmatched at providing, but I see NOAA's
utility as something significantly more vital to the U.S.
economy. The severe storm outbreak in March also aided in
reviving Midwest soil moisture. It was NOAA's radars and rain
gauges that captured every move of these storms. NOAA's
monitoring of the hydrology of the Mississippi River was
strategically used in repositioning barge traffic carrying
grain and fertilizer during the drought of last fall. And the
incredibly deep Western U.S. snowpack has filled reservoirs
this spring, allowing California, which leads the Nation in the
production of over 40 different fruits and vegetables and milk,
to precisely and responsibly use water for agriculture.
I prepared a list of all of the resources from NOAA that my
team at Nutrien uses daily to provide weather insights to our
grower customers, and that list has over 30 products. These
data and analyses are compulsively consumed by the agricultural
community. Nearly every decision a grower makes is about the
future success of their crop and the future success of their
business. Weather is uncontrollable, but it is observable and
predictable and certain--at certain timescales, and our grower
customers consume NOAA's products as a part of every on-farm
decision. An average Midwest corn and soybean farmer averages
$800 per acre in expenses, resulting in $1-1.5 million of
annual cash-flow through their farm. Weather impacts everything
from crop type to ideal planting windows to optimal fertilizer
application to how vegetative and reproductive crop stages will
impact yield, how the market react, and how insurance premiums
are set just to name a few examples.
Agriculture is pushing the limits of atmospheric sciences
by increasing the demand for subseasonal to seasonal
forecasting. Successful farming requires accurate and skillful
long-term planning, and long-range weather forecasts provided
by NOAA are essential to crop planning and marketing. Just as
valuable are NOAA's incredibly rich historical weather and
climate records. Farmers study and examine historical weather
records and climate data to understand climatic shifts that
could impact their farming decisions. These same data are used
to compile sustainability metrics of which are of high demand
in food production in the United States.
I want to conclude by thanking the Subcommittee for
inviting me here today to share with you the importance of
weather data in agriculture. In summary, the United States is a
global powerhouse in agricultural productivity, and we are an
integral part to the food security of this Nation and to the
world. NOAA's data and forecasting are mission-critical to the
success of U.S. agriculture, investment and computing
infrastructure, data assimilation, increased capacity for
observation, and industry partnerships are vital to the
continued success of NOAA.
So thank you, and I look forward to questions.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Snodgrass follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Snodgrass.
I now recognize Dr. Kathie Dello for five minutes to
present her testimony.
TESTIMONY OF DR. KATHIE DELLO, Ph.D.,
STATE CLIMATOLOGIST OF NORTH CAROLINA,
AND CO-DIRECTOR, NOAA CAROLINAS CLIMATE
ADAPTATION PARTNERSHIP (CAP/RISA)
Dr. Dello. Good morning, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member
Ross, Members of the Subcommittee. It is truly an honor to be
here with you today.
We are approaching the five-year anniversary of Hurricane
Florence, a category one hurricane that caused unprecedented
damage in eastern North Carolina. Communities are still
recovering. Despite the magnitude of this event, weather and
climate data availability is still inadequate following this
generational storm. And in a changing climate, our flood risks
are increasing statewide and across the country.
You've likely seen the videos of houses falling into the
ocean on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. However, you may be
unfamiliar with the area known as Down East. It's a coastal
community of 13 unincorporated villages. The population living
in this community is aging, and most of these families have
lived in Down East for generations. This community has seen the
impacts of flooding firsthand from big events like Florence to
daily nuisance floods that interrupt their lives in countless
ways. These flooding events are more than short-term
inconveniences. They threaten public safety and health. Two-
lane roads are often flooded, and no shoulders exist in many
places. Highway 70, a Federal highway, is the only corridor
available to these residents. The one hospital in the county is
located 52 miles away from the residents in Cedar Island.
People in these rural coastal areas nationwide need weather
and climate data to help them understand how high to raise
their houses, businesses, schools, and churches; translational
services and channels to communicate these data to community
members who are grappling with other stressors; and daily tidal
flooding data to learn when roads are impassable.
Down East is not an anomaly. There are Down Easts all over
this country. We play a role as the boots on the ground for
NOAA and other Federal agencies in the States in developing and
cultivating community partnerships and filling in the gaps in
these critical climate and weather data. One of our climate
adaptation partnership investigators, along with her research
team, is filling in key gaps in coastal flooding or sunny day
flooding data using low-cost sensor technology. They find that
coastal flooding is happening more often than past studies have
shown and that projections of future coastal flooding are
likely underestimated. In Beaufort, North Carolina, they
documented 24 floods in five months. In comparison, the
National Weather Service would have reported eight. Twenty-five
percent of those events were due to a combination of rain and
tide, which NOAA tide gauges are not designed to capture. Our
coastal communities need this really important information.
Perhaps the most visible footprint of my office, the State
Climate office, is North Carolina's Mesonet, the Econet. This
weather and climate network measures and delivers weather and
climate data in support of the National Weather Service and
public safety, agriculture, transportation, and tourism in
North Carolina. Our goal is to have at least one Econet station
at each of one--each of North Carolina's 100 counties. The
demand is there, and the need is, too. Our stations are located
in places where there isn't a NOAA weather or climate station.
Furthermore, as known officials in our State using the
trusted NC State University name and our land grant
designation, we are able to identify key partners and end users
of the data in a way that a Federal agency like NOAA cannot.
Our office also serves as a translator of these massive and
occasionally complicated data sources. We ensure free and
equitable access to all of our publicly funded data through a
series of user-friendly portals.
Despite the overwhelming demonstrated need for more data,
there are serious limitations. The major challenge is adequate
funding. State Mesonets receive some funding from the National
Mesonet Program via NOAA, but it pales in comparison to what
States like North Carolina need to run a fully functioning
statewide Mesonet. And despite the enormous demonstrated value
to NOAA and cost savings provided by this life- and property-
saving data, the short-term and low-value contracts from the
National Mesonet Program reduce our ability to focus on the
task at hand.
So with the Weather Act reauthorization, I ask NOAA to
increase funding to State Mesonets through the National Mesonet
Program for this critical life and property-saving data; ensure
equitable access to publicly funded data for all, including
translational services for those folks who can't sit down and
sift through climate data; ensure that we're making forward
progress to maintain the safety of life and property in a
changing climate and not just continuing to ask communities
what they need and not delivering in one-off engagements. We
need to scale and transfer nationwide some of the fairly low-
cost research that our CAP/RISA (Regional Integrated Sciences
and Assessments) team is doing and monitoring like the sunny
day flooding and urban heat islands. And we need to ensure that
the vulnerable, rural, and remotely located Down Easts of the
country get the same amount of attention as the larger, more
resourced cities. We are always thinking of the next hurricane
Florence, the next tropical storm Fred and the next Hurricane
Floyd.
I thank you for your time and attention, and I'm happy to
answer your questions.
[The prepared statement of Dr. Dello follows:]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Dr. Dello, and I thank the
witnesses for their testimony.
The Chair now recognizes himself for five minutes.
Mr. Snodgrass, in your testimony, you mentioned the
overlooked utility of NOAA's data as a more significant piece
to the U.S. economy than meets the eye. We know that food
security is a national security issue, and one out of every
seven jobs in my State of Ohio is in agriculture. Several of
our State's top crops, including corn and soy, rely on good
weather conditions to have a successful, profitable year. We've
talked about the importance of forecasting, be it one to three
days out, or seasonal to subseasonal forecasting in the context
of agriculture. So can you elaborate on the ways in which
forecasting factors into every decision from crop insurance
selection, planting fertilizer, and pesticide application, as
well as harvesting and marketing?
Mr. Snodgrass. Yes. How much time we got here? This is----
Chairman Miller. Only five minutes?
Mr. Snodgrass. Yes, that's right. This is every decision a
grower makes, and this is what's critical about this. So they
rely heavily on everything that's in the future, right? So
anything a farmer decides to do is always about the future
success of what they just did. So there's not a whole lot of
living in the past when it comes to agriculture. So these one-
to three-day forecasts are critical to figure out, can I spray
a particular crop with a particular application where I obey
the label restrictions and do that so that there's no, you
know, outside effect on what I'm doing other than when I'm
applying? Am I going to be able to apply fertilizer in a way
that it doesn't end up getting washed out or leached into the
river systems or volatizing it into the atmosphere? Can I get
the best possible use out of that? You then go forward from
there.
You asked about marketing decisions. I mean, right now,
while we're talking, weather is being traded on our markets for
corn, soybeans, and other crops, given the extensive drought
that is of course in your home State as well and States around
you, including mine in Illinois. So it is the No. 1 thing that
they're hanging on to every single day, and it is this
constantly changing thing that's happening in the future that
these growers are watching. And it goes across, like I said,
all timescales to monitoring the weather right now with the
radar network and with the Mesonets that have been discussed to
try and to see with high resolution models that NOAA maintains
when and where it's going to rain. But we were talking about
cutting hay earlier. If you do not get your timing right on
that rain, you're going to lose what you just cut, the quality
will go down, and you can't even sell it.
So looking at subseasonal things, how do we plan for next
year's crop cycle? What do we do in terms of planting, in terms
of trying to get the crop in as soon as possible? There--I
actually can't find a part of this sector that isn't weather-
sensitive. I think every decision made is having to deal with
weather and its impact. So, yes, it's of utmost importance.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Snodgrass, and I appreciate
your directness in answering the question.
We all know that accuracy of weather predictions in any
given area may vary within a few miles, making it difficult for
farmers making real-time decisions as it relates to planning,
fertilizing, and applying crop protection tools, even where
there is accurate forecasting in the broader area or region.
Given rising input costs and inflation, accuracy is now more
important than ever. To that end, many farmers utilize tools
like their own on-farm weather stations and precision ag
sensing technologies. Yet there's still resources to be desired
on a larger scale. For all of our witnesses, where could NOAA
better allocate resources in order to collect or provide the
most accurate data that would lend better outcomes for farmers
and producers? And this is a question for any one of you who
would like to answer.
Dr. Dello. I'll jump in. As I mentioned in my testimony,
the National Mesonet Program is a vehicle that's already in
place. We are receiving funding from them. If we got more
funding, then we could serve more people. So there is not a
week that goes by that we don't get a call in our office from a
farmer, from a producer who wants an Econet station of their
own, and we just can't promise it with the amount of funding
that we get right now.
Mr. McManus. I'd also like to jump in on the National
Mesonet Program. While Oklahoma has a robust and the so-called
gold standard for Mesonets, we are impacted by the lack of
Mesonet coverage in other States in our border areas. So if
you're in the southern region of Oklahoma along the Red River,
there's not a northern Texas Mesonet, so those counties on our
southern border are not allowed to have the same type of
coverage in the central part of the State that has Mesonet
coverage. So weather traveling north from Texas is not covered
for those folks. So, you know, not only for those Mesonets that
exist, but further funding to establish Mesonets in States that
don't have the more robust coverages.
Chairman Miller. Thank you.
Ms. Jones. And if I could chime in as well, in California,
we've partnered with NOAA in the funding and installation of
atmospheric river observatories to capture these very large,
important winter storms that cause flooding, and we've been
making great progress, even using hurricane hunter flights to
go out and improve the forecasts of these. But getting the
locations of these storms right is very important.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Jones. And I'm sorry, Mr.
Snodgrass, I'm out of time and I yield back.
But I now recognize Ranking Member Ross, five minutes of
questions.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I noted in my opening
statement, NOAA supports and facilitates the transfer of
information and data to the many users through the Climate
Adaptation Partnership Program. Programs like these are
critical to ensuring information is reaching the right users in
a format tailored to their needs. Dr. Dello, I'm sure you're
surprised my first question is for you. You have vast
experience developing and overseeing NOAA CAP programs,
including North Carolina's. Could you elaborate on what the CAP
program is doing well and how it could be improved to serve the
public better?
Dr. Dello. Yeah, thank you for your question. The CAP
program has been around for I want to say almost 30 years, and
it's well-established, it's well-known. You can go into a
community and say we are with the CAP/RISA, and there's a bit
of credibility with that. Again, the funding is very limited,
and it has to go across multiple institutions across North and
South Carolina in our case. And also, we are trying to give
back to the communities that we work in so that we don't just
parachute in, have our five-year grant, and leave, that we
leave the communities better than we found them, but we're also
working with them to coproduce knowledge.
So I think some of the fundamentals of the CAP program have
worked really well, but we just can't reach all the
communities, so we need to think a little bit more about how
we're scaling that knowledge, transferring that knowledge, how
States without a CAP/RISA, including the Midwest, can benefit
from some of the work that we've done, and how we can pull in
some of the other Federal climate centers a little bit better
like the Department of Interior and USDA (United States
Department of Agriculture) climate centers as well. So I think,
you know, the CAP program has a lot of momentum, it has a lot
of promise, but we are just under-resourced.
Ms. Ross. And can you tell us a little bit about those
relationships with the communities? So after you've developed
those relationships, are there any kind of ongoing projects
that go on with those communities and give an example of one
that's been successful?
Dr. Dello. Yes, so we started in late 2021, so there was a
fair bit of trust building that we're doing, but we were also
building off relationships that those of us had in the region.
And I will pick one community out in particular. It's the
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in western North Carolina,
federally recognized tribe. They approached us and said we need
help planning for the next seven generations. We're thinking
about climate change. They're up in western North Carolina
where it's very mountainous. They're flood-prone, they're fire-
prone, and they just wanted us to step in. We spent a year
getting to know each other, understanding concerns, making sure
we trusted each other. They've been burned by researchers in
the past. But one of the things that we started to do was just
start to offer small things that we could do to start to build
climate resilience. So in a couple of weeks, we are giving them
an Econet station, and they will be able to then pair it with
their air quality data and then go after funding and understand
a little bit more about their air and climate risks in their
community.
And we also really like putting the data in the hands of
the community. When they feel like they have ownership over the
data, they may be more willing to trust it. So that's a--it's a
burgeoning relationship. It's still growing, they're always
still growing, but we feel really good about that one.
Ms. Ross. That's a great example. Just one final question
for you. As--and also for Mr. McManus if we have time for both
of you. As State Climatologists, I'm sure you're familiar with
long-term considerations in the context of planning for extreme
weather events and climate change. Can you elaborate on the
concerns of your constituents in these areas and what
information from NOAA goes into the constituents'
decisionmaking? And I'll have my constituent go first, and then
hopefully there'll be a few minutes for you, Mr. McManus.
Dr. Dello. Yes, I'll try to save some time for you, Gary.
So I work really closely with North Carolina Department of
Transportation. They're building bridges and roads for the next
50, 100 years. And Hurricane Florence turned Interstate 40 into
a river itself. So they're thinking about what routes needs to
be prioritized. They're calling them resilient routes to
preserve public safety and infrastructure, and they want to
know how high should these bridges be? Should we buildup the
road? Should we have wider shoulders? Should we have deeper
culverts? So working with them to provide current and future
data about some of the flooding risk.
Ms. Ross. Thank you. Mr. McManus?
Mr. McManus. Very quickly, coming from the calamitous
weather capital of the United States, we're interested in all
changes of hazardous weather in the next few decades,
especially agriculture, which we hear a lot about, and we
reference or leverage our NOAA partners for that type of
information very heavily and provide that.
Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Ross.
I now recognize the Member--the Chairman of the Full
Committee, Mr. Lucas from Oklahoma.
Chairman Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As we heard from Mr. McManus' testimony, the Oklahoma
Mesonet is a tremendous resource to the State. However, we are
not the only State that boasts this capacity as North Carolina
is another leader within the National Mesonet Program. And I'm
sure both Mr. McManus and Dr. Dello would share my personal
disappointments to see that NOAA's proposed funding decrease
for the National Mesonet in 2024 just to be upfront about it.
And my next question kind of goes back to, Gary, your
earlier comments. Although most of the National Mesonet data is
just sent over an integrated system--State systems, some of it
is collected by NOAA and its partners. So I put this question
to both you and Dr. Dello to expand on what you've previously
said. Could you talk more about how you use the National
Mesonet Program and what it offers to States that that systems
that States simply cannot provide? And note for the record when
Gary talks about the adjoining States, literally the States
that Oklahoma joins takes us all the way to the west State line
of New Mexico, the north State line of Colorado, the
Mississippi River on the east side of Missouri, literally to
the Mississippi, and Arkansas, the international border of
Mexico. So this issue about adjoining systems really matters,
doesn't it, Gary?
Mr. McManus. Yes, indeed it does. And of course when we
talk about the National Mesonet Program, I know that it's very
important for our National Weather Service forecasters in the
State of Oklahoma, to be able to see those Mesonet stations and
the data beyond our geopolitical boundaries because the
weather, especially severe weather, knows no geopolitical
boundary. So they do have that information at their disposal.
Now, when I talk to Oklahoma emergency managers and public
safety officials, they don't have that National Mesonet data at
their disposal. They want that national--they want something
from the National Weather Service or from NOAA that will allow
them to see that broader range of the National Mesonet data so
that they can use that in their ability to keep their people
safe.
Now, when we talk about just the mere aspect of the funding
for the National Mesonet Program, that actually does allow
Oklahoma to continue to maintain its outreach program, so like
OK-First, OK-Fire. When there are, you know, other States that
try to emulate those programs, there's simply not the funding
available from their State coffers. So the National Mesonet
Program is extremely important for Oklahoma in allowing us to
keep our citizens safe and to keep our economy safe during that
inclement weather that we get so often in the State of
Oklahoma.
Chairman Lucas. Dr. Dello, would you like to expand on
that?
Dr. Dello. Yes, so we use the funding, and we get a larger
chunk of funding for the North Carolina Econet from North
Carolina State University. It's very important for the College
of Agriculture and Life Sciences. We partner closely with
extension. We take that extra pot of National Mesonet Program
funding and we hire entry-level technicians. We train them in
coding, we train them in maintenance, we train them in just
basic weather patterns and climate science, and then hopefully,
you know, send them out into the world to do big things. So we
use it as sort of a training program for our staff. We would
love to have more people on board. North Carolina is a very
long State, and for them to get from one end to the other, it
takes a long time.
Chairman Lucas. To touch just for a moment on a personal
nature, in the Southern Plains and on the east side of the
Rockies, fire is a very important part of Mother Nature. The
restorative nature of it, it's just critically important, and
we have a lot of prescribed burn organizations doing those in
Oklahoma, volunteer groups, working with local fire entities
and with their own equipment who need the kind of data you
provide to be able to address those issues. It's not just wind
direction or wind speed as you know, Gary. It's the humidity
level. You produce those fire index statistics that they all
use. No one goes into the field without their cell phone tuned
in to your resources.
As you alluded to on the nature of things, I live in Roger
Mills County on the west State line, so there's always a bit of
sensitivity about what's coming from Texas when we don't know
for sure. But without the information the Mesonet provides, we
could not be able to mimic nature in the preservation of the
ecology in our area.
And with that, just a thank you for what you do and all of
you do, and we need to work together to make sure that the
successes at State and Federal level continue.
With that, I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee,
Ms. Lofgren from California, for five minutes.
Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. This is a very
interesting hearing and I hope will lead to further success.
You know, every 10 years we have redistricting in
California. We have a citizens commission, and they did kind of
an unusual thing. My district for many years has been Silicon
Valley. I now have a district that's half Silicon Valley and
half agriculture. And the tech, I hope, will be able to help
the agricultural part. I mean, I've got--if you're eating
strawberries, you're probably having a taste of Watsonville. If
you're eating artichokes, you're having a taste of Castroville.
If you're eating leafy greens that came from the Salinas
Valley, it's the salad bowl of the world, and it's very
vulnerable to climate catastrophes. This is an overstatement,
but the flood control infrastructure was really aimed toward
normal weather and not toward extremes.
And I remember this early spring I was at Tanimura's
headquarters, a big farm in Salinas Valley. I remember looking
out saying these beautiful lakes, and they said, well,
actually, those are our fields. So there was tremendous damage
done to the ag sector, the series of storms in January, again
in March. And having the S2S forecasts I think would assist us,
the longer range in terms of first having more permanent
infrastructure to protect important areas, but also emergency
steps that could be taken. We were doing that in the rain,
riprap, to try and prevent some flooding and it did work.
So I'm interested, Ms. Jones, on the pilot project that you
discussed. Obviously, NOAA does great work, but we want to do
more. Could you give me the details of what's envisioned by
that pilot project and what we might see from it?
Ms. Jones. So one of the difficulties with improving S2S
forecasting is that there's really been so little research in
the subject, so this is an area that very much needs the
research. And as two National Academy of Sciences reports have
pointed out, as well as NOAA's own report, it isn't just one
silver bullet that is the answer. It's a little bit of
everything, improving the models, data assimilation, high-
performance computing capacity, targeted research to improve
forecasts. And by doing all of these things we can make
progress, and this includes fairly simple things like some of
the research that we funded in California, just pointing out if
we can do much better than NOAA's NMME (North American Multi-
Model Ensemble) with a simple statistical forecast, this shows
us how much we need to improve.
One of the areas that clearly needs to be improved is that
NOAA's existing outlooks rely very heavily on El Nino Southern
Oscillation, or ENSO conditions, but we now know that for much
of the West, including California and the Upper Colorado River
Basin, that's only a really small piece of actually what
happens. So it's figuring out what other things besides ENSO
are contributing to these factors that would improve
forecasting not just for California, but also for the rest of
the Nation as well because if you fix models for one part of
the country, you help out others as well.
Ms. Lofgren. What are the other pieces other than El Nino?
Ms. Jones. Well, it could be things like the Madden-Julian
Oscillation, for example, at the subseasonal timescale,
tropical convection that occurs well to the west of us, then
propagates in our direction that really influences things that
are short time period. And improving these subseasonal
forecasts would be really helpful for Forecast-Informed
Reservoir Operations, or FIRO. And we are now doing three FIRO
pilot projects in California that demonstrate significant
potential for improving the efficiency of reservoir operations.
Ms. Lofgren. That's very helpful. Thank you so much to each
one of you for your excellent and informative testimony, and I
yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ranking Member Lofgren.
I now recognize Mr. Posey out of Florida for five minutes.
Mr. Posey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I was--
learned a lot already this hearing. I always thought that all
the weather folks were much better connected. You know, I
really did. I just thought it was a system that worked well.
And, unfortunately, I'm kind of sad to hear it's more like
Congress, you know?
You all represent different areas of the country and have
different views. And, you know, on the Space Coast, obviously,
we need up-to-date, timely weather information for our launch
schedules, or, you know, we're in deep yogurt. So I just wonder
if each of you could speak to the relationship that you have
with NOAA to receive the information that you need on a timely
basis. Just kind of capsulate it. You've all touched on it a
little bit already.
Mr. McManus. You bet, and thanks, Congressman Posey. And
it's great to recognize an accent finally that I can get in
line with. You know, we get our--all the data and the
information from NOAA, and it's really our job to translate and
disseminate that information. So whether it's the subseasonal
or seasonal forecasts, whether it's outlooks or anything of
that nature that we get from NOAA, we then take and we try and
translate that for the decisionmakers and the citizens of the
State of Oklahoma. You know, it's important that we not only
translate that data but prevent bad translation, so in some
ways, it's a preemptive strike because when you're talking
about, let's say, the subseasonal outlooks, just the June
outlook that just came out, those will get very badly
misinterpreted by those in parts of the weather community. So
if I translate those to the best of my ability from working
with those NOAA partners, then I can possibly prevent that from
getting too far out of bounds to our users.
Dr. Dello. At the North Carolina State climate office,
we're co-located with the National Weather Service in Raleigh,
and that's a really great model. They send their climate
questions downstairs, we send our weather forecast questions
upstairs, and we're able to work together to understand where
we need new Mesonet stations, where some data are missing,
where we can fill some gaps.
We're also--we work closely with the National Center for
Environmental Information in Asheville, North Carolina. We use
a lot of their data to contextualize what we're doing in
communities. We have, I would say, a really strong NOAA
alignment in North Carolina. Sometimes it can get jumbled
across NOAA line offices. We'll be hearing from the Weather
Service, and we'll be hearing from the Office of Atmospheric
Research, and it sometimes doesn't seem like they're talking.
Mr. Posey. Mr. Snodgrass?
Mr. Snodgrass. Yes, I would kind of consider myself a super
user of NOAA's data. About every day, I pull down roughly four
terabytes of their information and process it to build
applications that allow the U.S. grower to understand weather
risk. And I'll just say this because I also work in other parts
of the world, including Australia, Europe, South America.
NOAA's data dissemination comparatively is second to none. That
doesn't mean there isn't improvement, but the availability of
datasets that come in all varieties of formats that we are used
to in software development plus APIs (application programming
interfaces), that's a major step up from some other places.
But, as you all know, getting raw data requires, as was
mentioned here, interpretation and understanding, and that's
where our role is vital in the partnership with NOAA to make
sure that information is out there in a timely and accurate way
that's interpretable. So it's a big task, but NOAA does a good
job at it.
Mr. Posey. Ms. Jones?
Ms. Jones. So we have a great relationship with NOAA at the
weather timescale. One of NOAA's 13 river forecast centers, the
California Nevada River Forecast Center, is co-located with our
office at the Department of Water Resources, and we work very
closely with them. Likewise, in the Colorado River Basin
Forecast Center, the basin States work closely with them on
their development of the water supply forecasts for the
Colorado River. And interestingly, we've identified that one of
the difficulties with their forecasts, about half of the
forecast error in the runoff forecasts is because of the lack
of quality of the subseasonal precipitation forecasts. So we
have a long working relationship with NOAA at the weather
timescale. And at the subseasonal, seasonal timescale, we've
funded research work with NOAA to improve that, and I
particularly want to call out our partnership with the Earth
Systems Research Lab in Boulder.
Mr. Posey. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I see
my time is about to expire, and I yield back.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Posey.
I now recognize Ms. Bonamici from Oregon for five minutes
of questions.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the
witnesses for your testimony. It's been fascinating to listen
to because back in the 115th Congress and for some time even
before that I worked with now-Chairman Lucas and colleagues on
the bipartisan Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act
and hearing some of the challenges is exactly what we were
intending to address, acknowledge the progress made and the
need to do more. You know, we really wanted to strengthen the
capabilities and the communication.
So reauthorization is necessary to again sustain and
buildupon the achievements that we made and the advancements.
Actually, one of my first bills as a Member of Congress--I
represent the north coast, as Dr. Dello knows, in in Oregon,
the Pacific Northwest coast, and one of my first bills was to
reauthorize the Tsunami Warning Program, which expires this
year, and so I'm hopeful we can work on that because it really
does play a critical role in saving lives, minimizing property
damage, fostering community resilience by offering early
warnings and enhancing public safety.
So, Dr. Dello, you mentioned the important role that State
climate offices play--thank you for all you did for Oregon and
all you're doing for North Carolina--in translating climate
information into useful and usable knowledge and bridging the
gap between scientists and decisionmakers and community
members. So I know you appreciate the risk of tsunami. You
know, we have the Cascadia Subduction Zone off our coast. So
from your perspective, how important are warning systems like
the tsunami warning system? And how do these systems enhance
your ability to respond to potential weather-related hazards
and safeguard the well-being of those at risk from tsunami or
severe weather events?
Dr. Dello. Yes, thank you for your question. Oregon will
always have a deep place in my heart. So yes, they're so
critical. Anytime I would go to the Oregon coast, I would see
the signs, I would look for safe places, I would think about
where my exits would be. And I think just those small bits of
communication and outreach that people are doing on the Oregon
coast are very effective, and we need those warning systems so
that people can then actually use them.
Ms. Bonamici. You don't have a lot of time to outrun a
tsunami, maybe 15 minutes----
Dr. Dello. No, yes----
Ms. Bonamici [continuing]. For a nearshore tsunami.
Dr. Dello. And I'm going to also point to another event in
your region, the Pacific Northwest heat dome, 116 degrees in
Portland, Oregon. I remember sitting there looking at my iPhone
and seeing the forecast and saying this is impossible. It's
impossible. And it verified. And this was something that we
weren't expecting to happen in Oregon in 2021. And there's
limited data in a lot of the areas in Oregon. Oregon doesn't
have a Mesonet. There's not constant urban heat monitoring in
places like Portland that lack shade. So having a heat warning
system for the Pacific Northwest, which I never thought I'd be
sitting in Congress talking about, is crucial, too.
Ms. Bonamici. Exactly. You anticipated my next question,
Dr. Dello, because you mentioned, you know, 2021, you were one
of the lead organizations on the NOAA National Integrated Heat
Health Information System's (NIHHIS's) urban heat mapping
campaign. Boy, that's long. But, you know, of course, NIHHIS is
the program to--we need to formalize this in its efforts and
require NIHHIS advanced research on extreme heat, environmental
justice and equity. And there was someone from Portland State,
a Portland State University professor who was doing some of
that work, and it was actually in parts of Portland even
hotter, up in the 120's, which is really dangerous.
So how do partnerships like this bolster the climate
assessment program's capacity to reach a broader constituency,
promote awareness, and inform decisionmaking? And could the
Weather Act reauthorization help increase partnerships like
NIHHIS urban heat mapping campaigns to increase the likelihood
that resources are actually going to use--be used to address
community specific demands?
Dr. Dello. Yes. So we did the mapping campaign in Raleigh
and Durham in 2021, and both Durham County and the city of
Raleigh have taken that and implemented policy off of it. And
because they were involved, because community members were
involved, they are a little bit more likely to trust the data.
They helped generate it, they see it, they see their
communities, and they see the disparities across Durham, which
was redlined. In Raleigh, that wasn't. And I think they are
really good programs for generating buzz, getting one-time
maps, but we need constant monitoring of urban heat. We just
can't sustain urban heat monitoring on the backs of 150
volunteers that I bought doughnuts for who showed up at 6 a.m.
and drove their cars around that day.
So I think one of the things that we're doing with the
North Carolina Mesonet is that we have black globe
thermometers, which help us calculate heat stress. So expanding
those across the country's Mesonet system would be really
crucial and a first step.
Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm out of
time, but I really--I'll submit this for the record--want to
ask about the extreme weather events and emergency response
agencies and first responders. So I'll submit this to the
record because I'd like to hear from all of you about how
you've worked in emergency response context, and--but I'm out
of time. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici.
I now recognize Mr. Garcia from California for five minutes
of questions.
Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for letting me
join the Subcommittee here, very important discussion. Thanks
to our witnesses for the testimony.
I come from California, southern California, North L.A.
County, and we would be the benefactors of this technology
being fully realized, the forecasting models being tightened
up. Obviously, I would submit--and, Ms. Jones, you can probably
either validate this or not, but I would submit that in
California specifically, it's not that we don't get enough rain
over a certain period of time, maybe a 10- to 12-year paradigm,
and it's not even necessarily that we don't have enough
capacity. It's that we don't necessarily have the information
needed to make timely decisions around the water management
itself, how we're moving water from one storage facility to the
next, and even implementing drought sort of provisions on
residents and farmers throughout the State.
Can you walk me through--I know Ms. Lofgren asked about
this pilot project that you guys are working, but can you walk
me through sort of what the end state sort of nominal vision
is, the ebb and flow of droughts, and then these atmospheric
rivers, to be able to forecast those correctly to be able to
then compensate for them correctly during a drought, hold the
water during the atmospheric rivers, be able to move water to
areas for storage in anticipation of the next sort of drought
period? But let's assume we've gotten all of the technology
investments and the tools matured. From an operational
perspective, what would that look like in California as far as
water management after that?
Ms. Jones. Well, so this water year would be a great
example because we went into the wet season after having the
three driest years of record, and all of a sudden, we were
handed very large amounts of precipitation in a very short
time, that, frankly, overwhelms the capacity of water
infrastructure to manage. So while it's great we had a lot of
water, all of our reservoirs are full. We can only store so
much of it. We are then in a flood response mode. And as was
mentioned in the Salinas Valley area, the Pajaro River, for
example, experienced flooding challenges.
But one of the big outcomes of this is how could we better
improve groundwater recharge? Because that's a very important
part of our water budget in California is we don't have these
big events very often, but when we do, we need to put as many
molecules of that water underground as possible so we can use
them again in a future dry year. And we've taken a number of
steps this winter to try emergency and urgent groundwater
recharge opportunities, including executive orders facilitating
this, and--or even providing a service where we have secured a
number of high capacity, large rental pumps, and we are
providing those to agencies that can put some of this water in
places that aren't usually used for recharge such as orchards
or dormant fields. So if we can fine tune and maximize that
kind of capacity, that's a huge step in when we do get these
occasional various bounteous years, of setting that aside for
the drier ones.
Mr. Garcia. Would you say that right now from an
infrastructure perspective, from a just volume of capacity,
either in the groundwater storage facilities or in potential
groves and farmlands that we have enough capacity right now? Or
should we--while we are also investing in the technology--also
be investing in the infrastructure to enhance and increase the
capacity so that when we get to the drought periods, we can
still meet the demands without telling farmers they can't water
their--you know, their almond trees and without telling
residents they can't water their lawns? They may get close to
depleted, but we ultimately can still meet those demands. From
a capacity perspective are we as a State there yet or do we
need more?
Ms. Jones. Well, the enactment of our California
Sustainable Groundwater Management Act really puts a premium on
increasing groundwater recharge everywhere we can, and to do
that in much of the State, we will need a significant
investment in conveyance capacity to move these very high flows
that occur during infrequent wet events to someplace where they
can be managed and stored for future use. A number of local
agencies have made good starts in that area, but there's a lot
more to be done.
Mr. Garcia. So pumps and channels and canals to manage that
conveyance.
Last question, have we gotten any more sophisticated I'll
say in terms of measuring snowpack? You know, for the last
several decades, it seems there's a guy with a stick that goes
up there and measures the--it seems like with LIDAR (light
detection and ranging) and ground-penetrating radar and AI
(artificial intelligence) and advanced algorithms, we should be
able to quantify the volume of water in the mountains without
having one dude on--with a stick on one peak or a few. Has that
changed at all?
Ms. Jones. Yes, we've made a big investment in aerial
monitoring from aircraft. And I know I'm out of time now, but
we are spending a lot of money on that right now, but it's very
expensive.
Mr. Garcia. We'll help you with that as well, as well as
the Coast Guard to hurricane hunters in the ARs.
So I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
I now recognize Mr. Frost from Florida for five minutes of
questions.
Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you so much
for being here.
Section 104 of the 2017 Weather Act created a mandate to
develop and extend hurricane forecasts and warning. As a result
of that mandate, this year sees the first use of the Hurricane
Analysis Forecasting System, or HAFS. Because it can track
multiple storms at the same time and factor in how storm
systems interact, HAFS should be--should make hurricane
forecasting 30 percent more precise.
Dr. Dello, hurricane season started last week, and once
again, my central Florida constituents live in the path of a
potentially devastating storm. What will hurricane forecasting
that is 30 percent more precise mean for my constituents?
Dr. Dello. Yes, so you and I know that it just takes one
hurricane, but the amount of lead time that we have is crucial,
especially for low-income people who may not be able to just
pick up and leave their lives behind and have to make alternate
plans to live in a place for a few weeks. So even getting 48,
72 hours on a forecast is crucial. And the National Hurricane
Center does really, really good work, and they've improved so
much in the past 20 years, but if we can even push it a little
bit further, I think that will, you know, help some of the most
vulnerable among us.
Mr. Frost. A hundred percent. I mean--and hurricanes are
not, you know, news to Floridians. I mean, the hurricanes are
devastating. I grew up, you know, doing hurricane parties with
my family, right? It's a very normal part of living in the
State of Florida. But what matters is where and when it's
going, right, where it's going and when it's going to come. A
recent example is Hurricane Ian. Until late--very late in its
path, as we all know, it was supposed to hit the Tampa area and
it hit it up--ended up hitting southwest Florida where it
completely decimated Fort Myers Beach. And many people did not
understand the danger they were in until it was too late.
The purpose of section 406 of the Weather Act is to create
warnings that prevent the loss of life and property. Mr.
McManus, not all people who can evacuate ahead of a storm do.
And how can a renewed Weather Act help us get a better
understanding of the social and behavioral factors that go into
why some people might choose not to evacuate?
Mr. McManus. Yes, thank you for the question. Of course in
Oklahoma, you know, Okies are born and raised with weather
warnings, weather watches of all manner, but those warnings are
not always heeded by the public, as you said. So that's where
the social sciences need to come in and better translate those
warnings to where the public can understand those but also take
the proper heed when necessary.
You know, in Oklahoma, we still have people that think the
tornado sirens are for people sitting in their houses watching
TV or sleeping when they're mainly for outdoors. So it's those
kinds of challenges that need to be studied by the social
sciences and, you know, elaborated on to--and the end product
would help save lives for the betterment of all the
communities.
Mr. Frost. Thank you. And, Dr. Della, I mean, you know from
your work in North Carolina, we might experience the same storm
in name, but we don't always experience the same storm in terms
of impact. Not everybody has a smartphone or cable television
with the up-to-date--up-to-minute warnings or a car to make
their escape or a neighborhood free of flooding. That happened
in my district. The neighborhoods that were hit the hardest in
terms of storm surge were poor neighborhoods. Or not everyone
has a landlord that keeps their apartment up to code.
Disability advocates in Florida will also tell folks that they
face numerous dangerous planning oversights when trying to plan
an evacuation.
Dr. Dello, through a renewed Weather Act, what additional
steps can we take to improve last-minute, last-mile warnings
and getting vulnerable populations to safety?
Dr. Dello. Yes, this is a great question. So obviously,
warnings need to not just be in English but also Spanish in
many areas in this country. We need to ensure that we're not
just relying on people having cell phones or broadband
technology. There are places in North Carolina that are still
on dial-up. And we have to work with community groups. They are
on the ground. They know how to reach people. And it won't be
one size fits all. What works in Florida may not work in North
Carolina. But we're going to have to do this at the community
level using those trusted messengers to ensure that the people
who are hit first and worse by climate change are safe.
Mr. Frost. The vast majority of Floridians that died in
Hurricane Ian were over 65 years old, and when you get into the
details, it's heartbreaking because a lot of them died from--
you know, in very horrible ways, people deprived of oxygen
because they lost power, people going without dialysis, people
having their hearts go out in extreme heat. And so there's a
lot of work to do here, but I know together we'll be able to
make a safer Florida and ensure that we have the resources
necessary to get our most vulnerable populations, especially
our seniors, to be safe in these storms.
I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here, and I yield
back.
Chairman Miller. I thank the witnesses for their valuable
testimony and the Members for their questions. The record will
remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written
questions from Members.
This hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
Appendix
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Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Responses by Mr. Gary McManus
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Responses by Ms. Jeanine Jones
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Responses by Mr. Eric Snodgrass
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Responses by Dr. Kathie Dello, Ph.D.
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