[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]



                     REAUTHORIZING THE WEATHER ACT:
                    USERS OF WEATHER DATA AND AREAS
                       FOR IMPROVEMENT BY SECTOR

=======================================================================

                                     
                                     

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                      SUBCOMMITTEE ON ENVIRONMENT

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                             AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION
                               __________

                              JUNE 6, 2023
                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-15
                               __________ 
                               
                               

 Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology

                                     
                                     
               
               
               [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]                                    
                                     


                                     

       Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov 
                                 ______

                    U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 

52-327 PDF                 WASHINGTON : 2024 













       

              COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

                  HON. FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California, Ranking 
RANDY WEBER, Texas                     Member
BRIAN BABIN, Texas                   SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
JIM BAIRD, Indiana                   HALEY STEVENS, Michigan
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
MIKE GARCIA, California              DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee         VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina
DARRELL ISSA, California             KEVIN MULLIN, California
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas              JEFF JACKSON, North Carolina
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York             EMILIA SYKES, Ohio
RYAN ZINKE, Montana                  MAXWELL FROST, Florida
SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida              YADIRA CARAVEO, Colorado
DALE STRONG, Alabama                 SUMMER LEE, Pennsylvania
MAX MILLER, Ohio                     JENNIFER McCLELLAN, Virginia
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia              TED LIEU, California
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois,
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York             Vice Ranking Member
TOM KEAN, New Jersey                 PAUL TONKO, New York
VACANCY
                                 ------                                

                      Subcommittee on Environment

                    HON. MAX MILLER, Ohio, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida                  DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina, 
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas                  Ranking Member
RYAN ZINKE, Montana                  SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia                MAXWELL FROST, Florida 
















                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              June 6, 2023

                                                                   Page

Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                           Opening Statements

Statement by Representative Max Miller, Chairman, Subcommittee on 
  Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. 
  House of Representatives.......................................     6
    Written Statement............................................     7

Statement by Representative Deborah Ross, Ranking Member, 
  Subcommittee on Environment, Committee on Science, Space, and 
  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................     7
    Written Statement............................................     8

Statement by Representative Frank Lucas, Chairman, Committee on 
  Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives..     9
    Written Statement............................................    10

Statement by Representative Zoe Lofgren, Ranking Member, 
  Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of 
  Representatives................................................    11
    Written Statement............................................    11

                               Witnesses:

Mr. Gary McManus, State Climatologist, Oklahoma Climatological 
  Survey
    Oral Statement...............................................    13
    Written Statement............................................    16

Ms. Jeanine Jones, Interstate Resources Manager, California 
  Department of Water Resources
    Oral Statement...............................................    21
    Written Statement............................................    23

Mr. Eric Snodgrass, Senior Fellow Scientist and Principal 
  Atmospheric Scientist, Nutrien
    Oral Statement...............................................    32
    Written Statement............................................    34

Dr. Kathie Dello, Ph.D., State Climatologist of North Carolina, 
  and Co-Director, NOAA Carolinas Climate Adaptation Partnership 
  (CAP/RISA)
    Oral Statement...............................................    45
    Written Statement............................................    47

Discussion.......................................................    58

              Appendix: Answers to Post-Hearing Questions

Mr. Gary McManus, State Climatologist, Oklahoma Climatological 
  Survey.........................................................    72

Ms. Jeanine Jones, Interstate Resources Manager, California 
  Department of Water Resources..................................    78

Mr. Eric Snodgrass, Senior Fellow Scientist and Principal 
  Atmospheric Scientist, Nutrien.................................    79

Dr. Kathie Dello, Ph.D., State Climatologist of North Carolina, 
  and Co-Director, NOAA Carolinas Climate Adaptation Partnership 
  (CAP/RISA).....................................................    81

 
                     REAUTHORIZING THE WEATHER ACT:
                    USERS OF WEATHER DATA AND AREAS
                       FOR IMPROVEMENT BY SECTOR

                              ----------                              

                         TUESDAY, JUNE 6, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
                       Subcommittee on Environment,
               Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met , pursuant to notice, at 10:03 a.m., 
in room 2318, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Max Miller 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

    Chairman Miller. The Committee will come to order. Without 
objection, the Chair is authorized to declare recesses of the 
Committee at any time.
    Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``Reauthorizing the 
Weather Act: Users of Weather Data and Areas for Improvement by 
Sector.'' I recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement.
    I want to welcome everyone to this morning's hearing, 
``Reauthorizing the Weather Act: Users of Weather Data and 
Areas for Improvement by Sector.'' This is the Environment 
Subcommittee's second hearing this Congress on reauthorizing 
the Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act of 2017, an 
important effort for the Committee at large. Today's hearing 
continues our examination of U.S. weather policy and how best 
to update the crucial work started by the Weather Act 6 years 
ago.
    In March, we had the privilege of hearing from innovators 
from the commercial sector on the advancements they have made 
in collecting weather data. Today, we will hear from witnesses 
who utilize all of this raw weather data to inform the public 
about imminent storms, what the weather is going to be like 
days from now, and what conditions we can expect over the 
course of an entire season. So it's easy to see that weather 
data doesn't just help determine the day's clothing. It 
enhances our national economy by assisting long-term 
decisionmaking, and it helps protect lives and property.
    It should go without saying there are serious economic and 
humanitarian implications to not only being able to predict 
weather correctly or precisely, and we cannot afford to let the 
United States be in such a position. From my conversations with 
farmers back home in Ohio, I know that seasonal weather 
predictions are vital to American agriculture. Without accurate 
predictions in this sector, seasonal planting and harvesting is 
put at major risk.
    As we will hear today, regional data isn't enough for 
subseasonal to seasonal (S2S) forecasting. Accurate long-term 
prediction requires knowledge of weather patterns around the 
world, such as El Nino or La Nina. The purpose of today's 
hearing is to get an idea of how our witnesses will utilize 
both Federal and private data to achieve these accurate 
predictions, and we'll hear how that data improves our short-
term forecasting and our ability to protect the public from 
deadly weather events.
    Whether the data comes from NOAA (National Oceanic and 
Atmospheric Administration), State services, or commercial 
providers, we must ensure that all tools at our disposal are 
used to make the public aware of extreme weather conditions. 
Just last week, the Atlantic hurricane season officially kicked 
off with NOAA predicting one to four hurricanes will be 
classified as a major hurricane. And while this prediction is a 
near normal season, our goal every year should be to prepare 
the public in a way that no lives are lost as a result of these 
events.
    Though--through innovation to improve the accuracy and 
timeliness of weather models, as well as public awareness, we 
can save lives and property. This hearing and ultimately the 
Weather Act reauthorization will identify actionable items NOAA 
can pursue to build trust and education in weather forecasting 
products. When an E4 tornado, EF4 tornado, or a category 3 
hurricane is bearing down on the United States citizens, there 
should be no doubt on what the best course of action is. 
Additionally, by working together and increasing partnerships 
between NOAA and the commercial sector, the users of weather 
data will be better equipped to strengthen both short- and 
long-term weather predictions, benefiting all Americans across 
all sectors.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here. I look 
forward to each of your testimonies.
    [The prepared statement of Chairman Miller follows:]

    I want to welcome everybody to this morning's hearing, 
Reauthorizing the Weather Act: Users of Weather Data and Areas 
for Improvement by Sector. This is the Environment 
Subcommittee's second hearing this Congress on reauthorizing 
the Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act of 2017, an 
important effort for the Committee at large.
    Today's hearing continues our examination of U.S. weather 
policy and how best to update the crucial work started by the 
Weather Act six years ago. In March, we had the privilege of 
hearing from innovators from the commercial sector on the 
advancements they have made in collecting weather data.
    Today, we will hear from witnesses who utilize all this raw 
weather data to inform the public about imminent storms, what 
the weather is going to be like days from now, and what 
conditions we can expect over the course of an entire season.
    So it's easy to see that weather data doesn't just help 
determine the day's clothing. It enhances our national economy 
by assisting long term decision making and it helps protect 
lives and property. It should go without saying there are 
serious economic and humanitarian implications to not being 
able to predict weather correctly or precisely, and we cannot 
afford to let the United States be in such a position.
    From my conversations with farmers back home in Ohio, I 
know that seasonal weather predictions are vital to American 
agriculture. Without accurate predictions in this sector, 
seasonal planting and harvesting is put at major risk.
    As we will hear today, regional data isn't enough for 
subseasonal to seasonal forecasting. Accurate long-term 
prediction requires knowledge of weather patterns around the 
world, such as El Nino or La Nina.
    The purpose of today's hearing is to get an idea of how our 
witnesses utilize both federal and private data to achieve 
these accurate predictions. And we'll hear how that data 
improves our short-term forecasting and our ability to protect 
the public from deadly weather events.
    Whether the data comes from NOAA, state services, or 
commercial providers, we must ensure that all tools at our 
disposal are used to make the public aware of extreme weather 
conditions.
    Just last week, the Atlantic hurricane season officially 
kicked off, with NOAA predicting one to four hurricanes will be 
classified as a major hurricane.
    And while this prediction is a ``near-normal'' season, our 
goal every year should be to prepare the public in a way that 
no lives are lost as a result of these events.
    Through innovation to improve the accuracy and timeliness 
of weather models, as well as public awareness, we can save 
lives and property.
    This hearing, and ultimately the Weather Act 
Reauthorization, will identify actionable items NOAA can pursue 
to build trust and education in weather forecasting products. 
When an EF-4 tornado or a Category 3 hurricane is bearing down 
on U.S. citizens, there should be no doubt on what the best 
course of action is.
    Additionally, by working together and increasing 
partnerships between NOAA and the commercial sector, the 
``users'' of weather data will be better equipped to strengthen 
both short- and long-term weather predictions, benefitting all 
Americans across all sectors.
    I want to thank all of our witnesses for being here. I look 
forward to each of your testimonies.

    Chairman Miller. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the 
gentlewoman from North Carolina, for an opening statement.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chairman Miller, for convening this 
important hearing considering the many users of weather data, 
and thank you to our witnesses for joining us this morning to 
share your expertise. I'm especially excited that North 
Carolina's own State Climatologist, Dr. Kathie Dello, is 
joining us today, and she's my neighbor, too. We live less than 
a mile away.
    Weather data is critical for informing decisions and 
protecting American lives and property daily. A wide variety of 
users benefit from NOAA's weather and climate data. Emergency 
response agencies inform their decisionmaking by closely 
following seasonal outlooks and weather forecasts. Weather 
resource managers rely on accurate forecasts along--across 
timescales to guide everything from permitting and negotiations 
to resource distribution and reservoir management.
    Directly relevant to my home State of North Carolina and 
many of those represented by this Committee is the critical 
application of NOAA's data to the agricultural industry. High 
quality weather data is paramount for protecting yields and 
managing water and fertilizer use. Furthermore, global weather 
and climate data provided by NOAA is used to predict the yields 
and agricultural market performance of our international 
partners and our adversaries.
    Lastly, but certainly not least, is the critical 
application of NOAA's weather and climate data to furthering 
coastal resilience across the United States. At the forefront 
of providing these data is NOAA's National Weather Service. 
From generating long-term hurricane season outlooks to short-
term weather forecasts, the National Weather Service does it 
all. Mandated by policy NOAA provides open access weather and 
climate data services worldwide. In fact, NOAA's products and 
services are recognized as being some of the most user friendly 
and accessible of any Federal agency.
    Additionally, NOAA promotes and facilitates the flow of 
these data and services to many users. For example, NOAA's 
Climate Adaptation Partnership (CAP) Program facilitates 
collaborative partnerships with extension networks, State and 
local governments, and other organizations to help improve and 
disseminate NOAA data and services to users. Key to these 
efforts is tailoring information to the needs of communities 
and addressing inequities.
    I look forward to hearing about Dr. Dello's experiences 
giving--given her wealth of knowledge working with constituents 
and data users across sectors while developing and leading both 
Oregon's and North Carolina's CAP programs.
    In short, NOAA's contribution to providing weather and 
climate data services worldwide cannot be understated. As each 
user tackles unique problems that vary in scope and 
application, it's critical that the vast needs of users of 
public data are considered. With worsening climate change and 
weather events looming, ensuring quality data is available to 
the many users is paramount to protecting the American people.
    I'm eager to hear from our witnesses today on their 
experiences using NOAA's climate and weather data and how 
Congress can support the improvement of its quality, quantity, 
and availability.
    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Ross follows:]

    Thank you, Chairman Miller, for convening this important 
hearing considering the many users of weather data, and thank 
you to our witnesses for joining us this morning to share your 
expertise. I am especially excited that North Carolina's own 
State Climatologist, Dr. Kathie Dello, is joining us today.
    Weather data is critical for informing decisions and 
protecting American lives and property daily. A wide variety of 
users benefit from NOAA's weather and climate data. Emergency 
response agencies inform their decision-making by closely 
following seasonal outlooks and weather forecasts. Water 
resource managers rely on accurate forecasts across timescales 
to guide everything from permitting and negotiations to 
resource distribution and reservoir management.
    Directly relevant to my home state of North Carolina, and 
many of those represented by this committee, is the critical 
application of NOAA's data to the agricultural industry. High-
quality weather data is paramount for predicting yields and 
managing water and fertilizer use.Furthermore, global weather 
and climate data provided by NOAA is used to predict the yields 
and agricultural market performance of our international 
partners and adversaries.
    Last but certainly not least is the critical application of 
NOAA's weather and climate data to furthering coastal 
resilience across the U.S. At the forefront of providing these 
data is NOAA's National Weather Service. From generating long-
term hurricane season outlooks to short-term weather forecasts, 
the NWS does it all. Mandated by policy, NOAA provides open 
access weather and climate data and services worldwide. In 
fact, NOAA's products and services are recognized as being some 
of the most user-friendly and accessible of any federal 
agency.Additionally, NOAA promotes and facilitates the flow of 
these data and services to its many users.
    For example, NOAA's Climate Adaptation Partnerships Program 
facilitates collaborative partnerships with extension networks, 
state and local governments, and other organizations to help 
improve and disseminate NOAA data and services to users. Key to 
these efforts is tailoring information to the needs of 
communities and addressing inequities. I look forward to 
hearing about Dr. Dello's experiences given her wealth of 
knowledge working with constituents and data users across 
sectors while developing and leading both Oregon's and North 
Carolina's CAP programs.
    In short, NOAA's contributions to providing weather and 
climate data and services worldwide cannot be understated. As 
each user tackles unique problems that vary in scope and 
application, it is critical that the vast needs of the users of 
public data are considered. With worsening climate change and 
weather events looming, ensuring quality data is available to 
its many users is paramount to protecting the American people.
    I am eager to hear from our witnesses today on their 
experiences using NOAA's climate and weather data and how 
Congress can support the improvement of its quality, quantity, 
and availability.
    Thank you, and I yield back.

    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Ross.
    I now recognize the Chairman of the Committee, the 
gentleman from Oklahoma, for an opening statement.
    Chairman Lucas. And I want to thank the gentleman from 
Ohio, Mr. Miller, for holding today's hearing.
    As a rancher in Tornado Alley, weather data is vital to me 
and all Oklahomans. While the Weather Act had an immediate 
positive effect, we still have work to do if we want to be the 
most accurate, trusted source of forecasting in the world. 
Since taking over as Chairman of the Committee, I prioritized 
reauthorizing the Weather Act, and this hearing is another step 
toward finalizing that bill.
    A critical component of the Weather Act reauthorization 
will be improving subseasonal and seasonal research and 
forecasting. This area of weather research is extremely 
important to farmers and ranchers whose livelihoods are subject 
to precipitation patterns. Better forecasting means better 
decisions on planting, managing crops, which translates into 
more food for America.
    I'm pleased to have an Oklahoma representative here to 
discuss our State's weather and climate services, including the 
Mesonet system. I take a lot of pride in the fact that this 
system is the gold standard in the country, and the Committee 
looks forward to hearing more details about how the data is 
updated, processed, and communicated to the public.
    As we have seen through the years, the impacts of weather 
are far too important not to strive for the very best tools. 
Protecting life and property, helping first responders during 
extreme weather events, and ensuring farmers and ranchers have 
the best data are only a few of the reasons we--having the most 
accurate weather forecast is paramount. It's encouraging to see 
the progress that NOAA and the private sector have made to help 
each other since the Weather Act of 2017. And don't get me 
wrong, they are indeed helping each other. It goes both ways. 
But even as we sit here today, 6 years after the passage of the 
first Weather Act, I believe there's still much more we can do 
for NOAA to maximize the innovations our country has to offer. 
So as we look forward to reauthorize the Weather Act, I'll push 
to continue this growth and expand the options and resources 
NOAA has to improve their long-term weather models and 
forecasts.
    Today's hearing is important because it allows us to 
examine a wide range of sectors that utilize all different 
types of weather data. It's a diverse group of the weather 
community, but they share many of the same needs from NOAA. 
Their input will help us ensure the direction and the resources 
we provide to NOAA end up benefiting the most Americans, as 
intended.
    I thank our witnesses for sharing their expertise with us 
today, and I look forward to a productive discussion. Thank 
you, and I yield back, Mr. Chairman.
    [The prepared statement of Chairman Lucas follows:]

    I want to thank the gentleman from Ohio, Mr. Miller, for 
holding today's hearing. As a rancher in tornado alley, weather 
data is vital to me and all Oklahomans.
    While the Weather Act had an immediate positive impact, we 
still have work to do if we want to be the most accurate and 
trusted source of forecasting in the world.
    Since taking over as Chairman of the Committee, I've 
prioritized reauthorizing the Weather Act, and this hearing is 
another step towards finalizing that bill.
    A crucial component of the Weather Act reauthorization will 
be improving subseasonal to seasonal research and forecasting. 
This area of weather research is extremely important to farmers 
and ranchers whose livelihoods are subject to precipitation 
patterns.
    Better forecasting means better decisions on planting and 
managing crops, which translates to more food for America.
    I am pleased to have Oklahoma representation here to 
discuss our state's weather and climate services, including the 
mesonet system. I take a lot of pride in the fact that this 
system is the gold standard in the country and the committee 
looks forward to hearing more details on how the data is 
updated, processed, and communicated to the public.
    As we have seen through the years, the impacts of weather 
are far too important to not strive for the very best tools. 
Protecting life and property, helping first responders during 
extreme weather events, and ensuring farmers and ranchers have 
the best data are only a few of the reasons having the most 
accurate weather forecasts is paramount.
    It's encouraging to see the progress NOAA and the private 
sector have made to help each other since the Weather Act in 
2017. And don't get me wrong, they are indeed helping each 
other. It goes both ways.
    But even as we sit here today, six years after the passage 
of the first Weather Act, I believe there is still much more we 
can do for NOAA to maximize the innovations our country has to 
offer.
    So, as we look to reauthorize the Weather Act, I will push 
to continue this growth and expand the options and resources 
NOAA has to improve their long-term weather models and 
forecasts.
    Today's hearing is important because it allows us to 
examine a wide range of sectors that utilize all different 
types of weather data. It's a diverse group of the weather 
community but they share many of the same needs from NOAA. 
Their input will help us ensure the direction and resources we 
provide to NOAA end up benefiting the most Americans, as 
intended.
    I thank our witnesses for sharing their expertise with us 
and I look forward to a productive discussion. Thank you and I 
yield back Mr. Chairman.

    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Lucas.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Committee, the 
gentlewoman from California, for an opening statement.
    Ms. Lofgren. Well, thanks to you, Chairman Miller, and also 
to Ranking Member Ross for this second in a series of hearings 
on the National Weather Act. Of particular interest to my 
district in California and especially the rural parts of my 
district is the subseasonal to seasonal forecasting that 
enables communities, water resource managers, and farmers to 
plan ahead. As Ms. Jones notes in her testimony, the West is 
increasingly experiencing climate change-driven extremes. It 
seems like we go from historic drought to historic flooding, 
and both are taking a toll on our communities.
    We have to take aggressive steps to ameliorate climate 
change, but we also need to take steps to adapt to it, and that 
starts with having the data and the models required to 
understand how the changing climate is affecting weather 
patterns beyond the next few days. At stake are both lives and 
livelihoods, and I look forward to hearing the experts on this 
panel about that.
    Now, where agriculture is particularly important in my 
district, there isn't a sector of our economy that doesn't use 
the National Weather Service's data and data products. The 
National Weather Service is very well-regarded, as the Chairman 
has just said, and for good reason. However, that doesn't mean 
there isn't room for improvement, and in addition to learning 
more about subseasonal or seasonal forecasting, I'm interested 
in all the recommendations from this panel for improving the 
National Weather Service's data, models, and communication.
    Now, given the witnesses before us, all of whom are quite 
expert, this hearing is a very good opportunity to discuss 
Federal climate change services and how they can be 
strengthened to support States, farmers, those who fish, 
business owners, infrastructure owners, city planners, and just 
plain individuals in preparing for a changing climate in the 
region they reside in.
    Even as climate change is accelerating beyond predictions 
of just a few years ago, we still have a long way to go to 
build a robust national climate service. While multiple 
agencies have a role in contributing to a national climate 
service in whatever form that may take, NOAA's role is 
certainly central. Fortunately, the Biden Administration is 
making this a priority. They have released a Federal Framework 
and National Action Plan for Climate Services, and while I hope 
this Committee holds hearing specifically on national climate 
services in the coming months, today's hearing can also help 
inform us on how NOAA's current climate services are being 
utilized and about unmet needs for climate services across 
those sectors.
    Again, I want to thank the Chairman and Ranking Member of 
the Subcommittee, as well as the Chairman of the Committee, for 
this hearing. I look forward to it, and I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]

    Good morning. Thank you to Chairman Miller and Ranking 
Member Ross for holding this 2nd in a series of hearings 
exploring issues for reauthorization of the National Weather 
Act. Today's hearing features users of NOAA's weather and 
climate data with expertise relevant to a range of sectors, 
from agriculture- to water management- to transportation.
    Of particular interest to my district- and especially the 
rural parts of my district- is the subseasonal to seasonal 
forecasting that enables communities, water resource managers, 
and farmers to plan ahead. As Ms. Jones notes in her testimony, 
the West is increasingly experiencing climate change driven 
extremes, from severe drought to catastrophic flooding. In 
addition to taking aggressive steps to mitigate climate change, 
we must also take all necessary steps to adapt to the changing 
climate. That starts with having the data and models required 
to understand how the changing climate is affecting weather 
patterns beyond the next few days. At stake are both lives and 
livelihoods. I look forward to hearing the expert panel's 
recommendations for improving subseasonal to seasonal 
forecasting.
    While agriculture is particularly important to my district, 
there isn't a sector of our economy that doesn't use the 
National Weather Service's data and data products. The National 
Weather Service is extremely well regarded, and for good 
reason. However, that does not mean there is no room for 
improvement. In addition to learning more about subseasonal to 
seasonal forecasting, I'm interested in all recommendations 
from this panel for improving the National Weather Service's 
data, models, and communication.
    Given the witnesses before us, this hearing is also a good 
opportunity to discuss Federal climate services and how they 
can be strengthened to support states, farmers, fishers, 
business owners, infrastructure owners, city planners, and 
individuals in preparing for a changing climate in their 
region. Even as climate change is accelerating beyond the 
predictions of just a few years ago, we still have a long way 
to go to build a robust national climate service. While 
multiple agencies have a role in contributing to a national 
climate service, in whatever form that may take, NOAA's role is 
central.
    Fortunately, we have an Administration that is making this 
a priority. This past March the Biden Administration released a 
Federal Framework and National Action Plan for Climate 
Services. While I hope this Committee holds hearings 
specifically on a national climate service in the coming 
months, today's hearing can also help inform us how NOAA's 
current climate services are being utilized, and of the unmet 
needs for climate services across sectors.
    Thank you to the expert panel for being here this morning. 
I look forward to your testimony and the discussion. I yield 
back.

    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Lofgren.
    Let me introduce our witnesses. Our first witness today is 
Mr. Gary McManus. He joined the Oklahoma Climatological Survey 
in May of 1999 and currently serves as the State Climatologist 
for Oklahoma. Gary is Editor-in-Chief of Oklahoma's Monthly 
Climate Summaries and has done extensive research cataloging 
Oklahoma's weather hazards.
    Our second witness is Ms. Jeanine Jones. She is the 
Interstate Resources Manager for the California Department of 
Water Resources (DWR). She is a member and past chair of the 
Western States Water Council, whom she is representing today. 
She is a designee on the Colorado River Board of California and 
a registered civil engineer in California and Nevada. She has 
more than 40 years of experience in water resources management 
with extensive background in drought preparedness and response.
    Our third witness is Mr. Eric Snodgrass. He is the Senior 
Fellow Scientist and Principal Atmospheric Scientist for 
Nutrien's retail division, Nutrien Ag Solutions, where he 
develops predictive and analytical software solutions to manage 
weather risk for global production agriculture. He is the 
cofounder of Global Weather and Climate Logistic LLC and 
Agrible Inc., which were both acquired by Nutrien Ag Solutions 
in 2018. From 2006 to 2019, Eric was the Director of 
Undergraduate Studies for the Department of Atmospheric 
Sciences at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 
where he taught over 20,000 students across a wide range of 
coursework in atmospheric science.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Environment 
Subcommittee, the gentlewoman from North Carolina, for the 
introduction of our final witness.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Chairman Miller. And it's my honor 
today to introduce one of my constituents, Dr. Kathie Dello. Dr 
Dello is North Carolina's own Director and State Climatologist 
at the North Carolina State Climate Office at North Carolina 
State University. Go Pack. She is also the codirector of NOAA 
Carolina's Climate Adaptation Partnership Program. Prior to 
coming to North Carolina, she was the Associate Director of the 
Oregon Climate Change Research Institute and Deputy Director of 
the Oregon Climate Service for nearly 10 years. Dr. Dello 
earned her Ph.D. in environmental sciences from Oregon State 
University, a master's in geography, and a bachelor's in 
atmospheric science both from the State University of New York 
at Albany.
    Throughout her career, Dr. Dello has been a champion in 
fighting against climate change specifically in the areas of 
climate resilience, planning, and impacts assessment. Not only 
does she contribute to research and large-scale climate 
assessment reports such as the Fifth National Climate 
Assessment, she is also actively involved in efforts to make 
science relevant to the broader public.
    A proficient science communicator, she often works with 
local and State--local, State, and national media, State 
government, NGOs (non-governmental organizations), and climate 
organizations. Oftentimes, scientific knowledge is lost in 
translation, and important information goes unused by those who 
need it most. Bridging the gap between science and the public 
is critical for ensuring Americans are well-informed and 
equipped to tackle the challenges of climate change and extreme 
weather events.
    That's why scientists like Dr. Dello who are bridging these 
gaps are so important for our communities. Given her expertise 
as a climate--in climate science and passion for making science 
accessible and informative for a vast array of constituents, 
I'm eager to hear from her today. Please join me in welcoming 
Dr. Dello.
    And I yield back.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Ross.
    Welcome to all the witnesses, and thank you for being here 
today. It truly is an honor.
    I now recognize Mr. Gary McManus for 5 minutes to present 
his testimony.

                 TESTIMONY OF MR. GARY McMANUS,

                      STATE CLIMATOLOGIST,

                 OKLAHOMA CLIMATOLOGICAL SURVEY

    Mr. McManus. Good morning, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member 
Ross, Chairman Lucas, and Ranking Member Lofgren and all other 
Members of the Subcommittee, and thank you for the opportunity 
to testify today.
    I'm a third-generation Okie, born and raised in the high 
plains of western Oklahoma in the small town of Buffalo just to 
the north of Chairman Lucas's small town of Cheyenne where he 
was--his hometown. I work as a State Climatologist at the 
Oklahoma Climatological Survey and the National Weather Center 
on the campus of the University of Oklahoma for a State that 
has had by far more FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency)-
declared disasters than any other State since the year 2000. 
It's my job to interpret all manner of weather and climate 
data--Federal, State, local, or commercial--and disseminate 
that to the State's decisionmakers and citizens to help protect 
lives, livelihoods, and property.
    Much of that work is accomplished using data from the 
Oklahoma Mesonet, which is jointly operated by Oklahoma State 
University (OSU) and the University of Oklahoma. The Mesonet 
was established 30 years ago both to address the needs for 
improved severe weather warnings and to improve our ability to 
research and better understand the weather, especially in 
Oklahoma. We have one or more stations in each of our 77 
counties so that, no matter where you are in Oklahoma, we have 
local, real-time observations without--within about 10 miles of 
your location.
    The Mesonet's partnership gives us access to a synthesis of 
world-class meteorological and agricultural expertise from the 
two universities. In just the past 2 years, the Oklahoma 
Mesonet's outreach programs have trained users and 
decisionmakers from 495 agencies across Oklahoma. These groups 
span the gamut from tribal organizations to public schools, to 
city and county entities, to State and Federal agencies.
    Mesonet data are used to improve production and optimize 
inputs for crops and livestock and protect them from many 
pests, diseases, and environmental conditions detrimental to 
their growth and development. I use the Mesonet weather and 
soil moisture data weekly as Oklahoma's main contributor to the 
U.S. Drought Monitor, a vitally important chore due to the 
agricultural aid triggered by the drought monitors depiction. 
Drought verification with Mesonet rainfall and soil moisture 
data has helped bring more than $1 billion in Federal aid to 
Oklahomans suffering from drought and its impact since the year 
2011.
    The Mesonet employs an OSU Extension Specialist for direct 
outreach with the agricultural community, as well as an OSU 
fire weather expert. Our OK fire outreach program has trained 
nearly 2,000 wildland fire managers and firefighters on 
weather's impact on wildfire suppression, prescribed burning, 
and smoke management. The Oklahoma Mesonet's real-time forecast 
fire danger products are used by fire departments, emergency 
managers, State and Federal agencies, private organizations, 
and private landowners.
    The Mesonet's public safety outreach program OK-First has 
trained over 2,000 emergency managers, police, fire, and public 
health professionals to use our data to help keep Oklahomans 
safe. This program provides Oklahoma's public safety community 
with weather education and access to critical real-time weather 
data, and not just the Mesonet data, but also the NOAA data as 
well.
    The Oklahoma Mesonet is a proud member of NOAA's National 
Mesonet Program, along with other universities and State 
Mesonets and additional partners. The National Mesonet Program 
has proven to be a successful public-private partnership model 
in which the Federal Government can leverage tens of thousands 
of additional real-time weather observations from across the 
Nation without having to maintain and operate them. This allows 
forecasters to use these additional data to improve weather 
models, and thus every community's weather forecast. It's 
essential that Congress and the Administration support and 
expand the national Mesonet to ensure that local forecasters 
have access to these highly localized weather data.
    Now, how has the Oklahoma Mesonet and NOAA data impacted me 
personally? On May 20, 2013, my day began in Moore, Oklahoma, 
filled with anxiety. A severe weather outbreak the day before 
spawned several strong tornadoes across central Oklahoma, 
leaving two dead, 14 injured, and a swath of destruction in 
their path. More high and severe weather was predicted for that 
day. Using a combination of NOAA high resolution computer 
models and Oklahoma Mesonet data, the forecasters at the Norman 
National Weather Service office managed to pinpoint the 
location and counties with the highest tornado threat for that 
day. Now, this enabled me to go get my kids from their 
elementary school and daycare in Moore and take them home, 
where we later huddled in our storm shelter as an EF5 monster 
churned through our neighborhood, our school system, and our 
hometown. That violent tornado ended up killing 24 people, 
including seven children at Plaza Towers Elementary School.
    I remain eternally grateful for the scale and expertise of 
the National Weather Service forecasters that day and for the 
Oklahoma Mesonet data that help guide their abilities, the very 
same Oklahoma Mesonet that I work for and whose data I turn--I 
in turn use to help keep people safe.
    Thank you, and I welcome any questions you might have for 
me.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. McManus follows:]
    
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    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. McManus.
    I now recognize Ms. Jeanine Jones for five minutes to 
present her testimony.

                TESTIMONY OF MS. JEANINE JONES,

                 INTERSTATE RESOURCES MANAGER,

            CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF WATER RESOURCES

    Ms. Jones. Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member, Subcommittee 
Members, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. I'm 
here on behalf of the Western States Water Council to talk 
about the importance of subseasonal to seasonal forecasting for 
water management in the West, where we're characterized by 
extreme variability in precipitation from year to year, as well 
as within a year. And, as the Committee Chairman said, we still 
have much work to do in parts of the Weather Act, and this is 
definitely one of those areas.
    Now, from a water management perspective, lead time is very 
important for us because most of our critical water management 
decisions aren't made within the span of a 7- to 10-day weather 
forecast. They're made at much longer lead times. And frankly, 
the most important, most costly, and some of the most 
significant decisions are made at lead times of many months. So 
this is an area that is very important for improving our 
efficiency in water management and especially for responding to 
extremes of droughts and floods, which we have seen all too 
much of in the West recently.
    Now, unfortunately, this is an area where the operational 
outlooks produced by the National Weather Service have very 
little skill. The example included in my testimony shows a map 
of the historical skill for the winter months when 
precipitation is most important for us. And on this map, what 
it shows is that there is essentially no better skill than 
predicting average weather conditions for much of the country, 
including much of the West. And for us these maps are 
unfortunately rather similar to a horoscope in that they 
essentially are something that you look at for interest or 
entertainment, but you can't use it to make a decision. And 
this is what we really need is the improved ability to make 
decisions.
    And it's been particularly critical that there have been 
some very significant misses in the outlooks in some of our 
most extreme years. I refer back to, for example, water year 
2016, which was the fifth year of a then deg.ve-year drought in 
California, when we also had the--what was famously called 
Godzilla El Nino, one of the strongest El Nino events on 
record. Much chatter in the news media based on the forecasts 
being made at the time that southern California, for example, 
was going to need Noah's Ark because it was going to be so wet. 
And in fact, what happened, we continued in drought. So, you 
know, a completely missed forecast.
    And as we saw this year in water year 23 in California, we 
went from what had been our three driest consecutive years of 
record to one of our wettest years of record, something that 
was also missed in these seasonal outlooks. And it's these 
extremes that are very important for water management to allow 
water agencies, the agricultural producers that we serve, the 
cities that we serve to make important decisions about managing 
their assets.
    And, you know, we really look forward to opportunities to 
improve S2S forecasting. And in 2020, pursuant to the Weather 
Act, NOAA submitted a report to Congress with recommendations 
to do so that included pilot projects to improve forecasting, 
including a pilot for Western winter precip and for central 
U.S. summer precip, which is important for agriculture. And we 
have--we at California DWR have been funding some seed money 
research toward this effort for a while, including funding NASA 
(National Aeronautics and Space Administration), NOAA, and 
academic centers. And this research has shown that there is 
opportunity for improvement, even from a project that we funded 
NOAA's Boulder labs to do, which had better skill with a 
statistical model than their national multi-model ensemble.
    So clearly, you know, there is opportunity here. We just 
need to make the investment in the research that's needed to 
get there. So we very much encourage the Subcommittee and the 
Full Committee to consider including NOAA's recommended pilot 
projects in Weather Act reauthorization. This is very important 
to have something that says, well, here's a pilot project that 
if you do this with these metrics to improve operational 
forecasts, we really could have some success here, which will 
help us as water managers better manage our resources, and it 
also contributes to climate change adaptation because this is a 
necessary tool for that.
    So with that, I would wrap up, thank the Committee for the 
opportunity to speak today.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Jones follows:]
    
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    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Jones.
    I now recognize Mr. Eric Snodgrass for 5 minutes to present 
his testimony.

                TESTIMONY OF MR. ERIC SNODGRASS,

                    SENIOR FELLOW SCIENTIST

          AND PRINCIPAL ATMOSPHERIC SCIENTIST, NUTRIEN

    Mr. Snodgrass. Chairman Lucas, Ranking Member Lofgren, 
Chairman Miller, Ranking Miller--excuse me, Ranking Member 
Ross, and Members of the Subcommittee, thank you for the 
opportunity to testify today and speak on the use of weather 
data in agriculture. My name is Eric Snodgrass, and I'm the 
Senior Science Fellow and Principal Atmospheric Scientist at 
Nutrien, the world's largest provider of crop inputs and 
services.
    As a global agriculture retailer, our aim is to provide 
everything the farmer needs at the farm level through our over 
1,200 retail locations worldwide--or nationwide. My role in 
this industry is to provide accurate and timely weather 
forecast information, which is critically important to every 
decision our grower customers make. At present, my forecasts 
are delivered to over 25,000 farmers daily. I maintain an ag 
weather website with four terabytes of traffic each month and 
speak at over 120 conferences and grower meetings each year on 
weather risk and production agriculture. Accurate and timely 
weather forecasts that our farmer customers rely on and are 
dependent on and that is accurate and timely weather data is a 
critical part of them.
    Weather risk is ubiquitous in agriculture. In a recent 
survey published by the University of Illinois' farmdocDAILY, a 
widely read publication in the agricultural community, weather 
was identified as the main source of risk for farmers by more 
than double the next highest category, which was output price.
    The United States has nearly 900 million acres of farmland 
that contributes over $1.26 trillion of the U.S. economy, and 
it is the uniqueness of the geography of this country that 
creates the variety of weather that sustains U.S. agriculture. 
The atmosphere can be unforgiving at times. High impact weather 
events like the Midwest tornado outbreak on March 31 of this 
year or the derecho that hit Iowa in 2020 or the drought of 
fall of 2022 that dropped the Mississippi River to historic 
levels or the present--or the persistent--excuse me--onshore 
flow of the atmospheric rivers (ARs) that hit the West Coast 
this January and March, delivering over 900 inches of snow to 
some Western mountains, these determine the success of U.S. 
crops.
    We often focus on NOAA's lifesaving efforts in each of 
these events, which is unmatched at providing, but I see NOAA's 
utility as something significantly more vital to the U.S. 
economy. The severe storm outbreak in March also aided in 
reviving Midwest soil moisture. It was NOAA's radars and rain 
gauges that captured every move of these storms. NOAA's 
monitoring of the hydrology of the Mississippi River was 
strategically used in repositioning barge traffic carrying 
grain and fertilizer during the drought of last fall. And the 
incredibly deep Western U.S. snowpack has filled reservoirs 
this spring, allowing California, which leads the Nation in the 
production of over 40 different fruits and vegetables and milk, 
to precisely and responsibly use water for agriculture.
    I prepared a list of all of the resources from NOAA that my 
team at Nutrien uses daily to provide weather insights to our 
grower customers, and that list has over 30 products. These 
data and analyses are compulsively consumed by the agricultural 
community. Nearly every decision a grower makes is about the 
future success of their crop and the future success of their 
business. Weather is uncontrollable, but it is observable and 
predictable and certain--at certain timescales, and our grower 
customers consume NOAA's products as a part of every on-farm 
decision. An average Midwest corn and soybean farmer averages 
$800 per acre in expenses, resulting in $1-1.5 million of 
annual cash-flow through their farm. Weather impacts everything 
from crop type to ideal planting windows to optimal fertilizer 
application to how vegetative and reproductive crop stages will 
impact yield, how the market react, and how insurance premiums 
are set just to name a few examples.
    Agriculture is pushing the limits of atmospheric sciences 
by increasing the demand for subseasonal to seasonal 
forecasting. Successful farming requires accurate and skillful 
long-term planning, and long-range weather forecasts provided 
by NOAA are essential to crop planning and marketing. Just as 
valuable are NOAA's incredibly rich historical weather and 
climate records. Farmers study and examine historical weather 
records and climate data to understand climatic shifts that 
could impact their farming decisions. These same data are used 
to compile sustainability metrics of which are of high demand 
in food production in the United States.
    I want to conclude by thanking the Subcommittee for 
inviting me here today to share with you the importance of 
weather data in agriculture. In summary, the United States is a 
global powerhouse in agricultural productivity, and we are an 
integral part to the food security of this Nation and to the 
world. NOAA's data and forecasting are mission-critical to the 
success of U.S. agriculture, investment and computing 
infrastructure, data assimilation, increased capacity for 
observation, and industry partnerships are vital to the 
continued success of NOAA.
    So thank you, and I look forward to questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Snodgrass follows:]
    
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    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Snodgrass.
    I now recognize Dr. Kathie Dello for five minutes to 
present her testimony.

             TESTIMONY OF DR. KATHIE DELLO, Ph.D.,

             STATE CLIMATOLOGIST OF NORTH CAROLINA,

            AND CO-DIRECTOR, NOAA CAROLINAS CLIMATE

               ADAPTATION PARTNERSHIP (CAP/RISA)

    Dr. Dello. Good morning, Chairman Miller, Ranking Member 
Ross, Members of the Subcommittee. It is truly an honor to be 
here with you today.
    We are approaching the five-year anniversary of Hurricane 
Florence, a category one hurricane that caused unprecedented 
damage in eastern North Carolina. Communities are still 
recovering. Despite the magnitude of this event, weather and 
climate data availability is still inadequate following this 
generational storm. And in a changing climate, our flood risks 
are increasing statewide and across the country.
    You've likely seen the videos of houses falling into the 
ocean on the Outer Banks of North Carolina. However, you may be 
unfamiliar with the area known as Down East. It's a coastal 
community of 13 unincorporated villages. The population living 
in this community is aging, and most of these families have 
lived in Down East for generations. This community has seen the 
impacts of flooding firsthand from big events like Florence to 
daily nuisance floods that interrupt their lives in countless 
ways. These flooding events are more than short-term 
inconveniences. They threaten public safety and health. Two-
lane roads are often flooded, and no shoulders exist in many 
places. Highway 70, a Federal highway, is the only corridor 
available to these residents. The one hospital in the county is 
located 52 miles away from the residents in Cedar Island.
    People in these rural coastal areas nationwide need weather 
and climate data to help them understand how high to raise 
their houses, businesses, schools, and churches; translational 
services and channels to communicate these data to community 
members who are grappling with other stressors; and daily tidal 
flooding data to learn when roads are impassable.
    Down East is not an anomaly. There are Down Easts all over 
this country. We play a role as the boots on the ground for 
NOAA and other Federal agencies in the States in developing and 
cultivating community partnerships and filling in the gaps in 
these critical climate and weather data. One of our climate 
adaptation partnership investigators, along with her research 
team, is filling in key gaps in coastal flooding or sunny day 
flooding data using low-cost sensor technology. They find that 
coastal flooding is happening more often than past studies have 
shown and that projections of future coastal flooding are 
likely underestimated. In Beaufort, North Carolina, they 
documented 24 floods in five months. In comparison, the 
National Weather Service would have reported eight. Twenty-five 
percent of those events were due to a combination of rain and 
tide, which NOAA tide gauges are not designed to capture. Our 
coastal communities need this really important information.
    Perhaps the most visible footprint of my office, the State 
Climate office, is North Carolina's Mesonet, the Econet. This 
weather and climate network measures and delivers weather and 
climate data in support of the National Weather Service and 
public safety, agriculture, transportation, and tourism in 
North Carolina. Our goal is to have at least one Econet station 
at each of one--each of North Carolina's 100 counties. The 
demand is there, and the need is, too. Our stations are located 
in places where there isn't a NOAA weather or climate station.
    Furthermore, as known officials in our State using the 
trusted NC State University name and our land grant 
designation, we are able to identify key partners and end users 
of the data in a way that a Federal agency like NOAA cannot. 
Our office also serves as a translator of these massive and 
occasionally complicated data sources. We ensure free and 
equitable access to all of our publicly funded data through a 
series of user-friendly portals.
    Despite the overwhelming demonstrated need for more data, 
there are serious limitations. The major challenge is adequate 
funding. State Mesonets receive some funding from the National 
Mesonet Program via NOAA, but it pales in comparison to what 
States like North Carolina need to run a fully functioning 
statewide Mesonet. And despite the enormous demonstrated value 
to NOAA and cost savings provided by this life- and property-
saving data, the short-term and low-value contracts from the 
National Mesonet Program reduce our ability to focus on the 
task at hand.
    So with the Weather Act reauthorization, I ask NOAA to 
increase funding to State Mesonets through the National Mesonet 
Program for this critical life and property-saving data; ensure 
equitable access to publicly funded data for all, including 
translational services for those folks who can't sit down and 
sift through climate data; ensure that we're making forward 
progress to maintain the safety of life and property in a 
changing climate and not just continuing to ask communities 
what they need and not delivering in one-off engagements. We 
need to scale and transfer nationwide some of the fairly low-
cost research that our CAP/RISA (Regional Integrated Sciences 
and Assessments) team is doing and monitoring like the sunny 
day flooding and urban heat islands. And we need to ensure that 
the vulnerable, rural, and remotely located Down Easts of the 
country get the same amount of attention as the larger, more 
resourced cities. We are always thinking of the next hurricane 
Florence, the next tropical storm Fred and the next Hurricane 
Floyd.
    I thank you for your time and attention, and I'm happy to 
answer your questions.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Dello follows:]
    
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    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Dr. Dello, and I thank the 
witnesses for their testimony.
    The Chair now recognizes himself for five minutes.
    Mr. Snodgrass, in your testimony, you mentioned the 
overlooked utility of NOAA's data as a more significant piece 
to the U.S. economy than meets the eye. We know that food 
security is a national security issue, and one out of every 
seven jobs in my State of Ohio is in agriculture. Several of 
our State's top crops, including corn and soy, rely on good 
weather conditions to have a successful, profitable year. We've 
talked about the importance of forecasting, be it one to three 
days out, or seasonal to subseasonal forecasting in the context 
of agriculture. So can you elaborate on the ways in which 
forecasting factors into every decision from crop insurance 
selection, planting fertilizer, and pesticide application, as 
well as harvesting and marketing?
    Mr. Snodgrass. Yes. How much time we got here? This is----
    Chairman Miller. Only five minutes?
    Mr. Snodgrass. Yes, that's right. This is every decision a 
grower makes, and this is what's critical about this. So they 
rely heavily on everything that's in the future, right? So 
anything a farmer decides to do is always about the future 
success of what they just did. So there's not a whole lot of 
living in the past when it comes to agriculture. So these one- 
to three-day forecasts are critical to figure out, can I spray 
a particular crop with a particular application where I obey 
the label restrictions and do that so that there's no, you 
know, outside effect on what I'm doing other than when I'm 
applying? Am I going to be able to apply fertilizer in a way 
that it doesn't end up getting washed out or leached into the 
river systems or volatizing it into the atmosphere? Can I get 
the best possible use out of that? You then go forward from 
there.
    You asked about marketing decisions. I mean, right now, 
while we're talking, weather is being traded on our markets for 
corn, soybeans, and other crops, given the extensive drought 
that is of course in your home State as well and States around 
you, including mine in Illinois. So it is the No. 1 thing that 
they're hanging on to every single day, and it is this 
constantly changing thing that's happening in the future that 
these growers are watching. And it goes across, like I said, 
all timescales to monitoring the weather right now with the 
radar network and with the Mesonets that have been discussed to 
try and to see with high resolution models that NOAA maintains 
when and where it's going to rain. But we were talking about 
cutting hay earlier. If you do not get your timing right on 
that rain, you're going to lose what you just cut, the quality 
will go down, and you can't even sell it.
    So looking at subseasonal things, how do we plan for next 
year's crop cycle? What do we do in terms of planting, in terms 
of trying to get the crop in as soon as possible? There--I 
actually can't find a part of this sector that isn't weather-
sensitive. I think every decision made is having to deal with 
weather and its impact. So, yes, it's of utmost importance.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Snodgrass, and I appreciate 
your directness in answering the question.
    We all know that accuracy of weather predictions in any 
given area may vary within a few miles, making it difficult for 
farmers making real-time decisions as it relates to planning, 
fertilizing, and applying crop protection tools, even where 
there is accurate forecasting in the broader area or region. 
Given rising input costs and inflation, accuracy is now more 
important than ever. To that end, many farmers utilize tools 
like their own on-farm weather stations and precision ag 
sensing technologies. Yet there's still resources to be desired 
on a larger scale. For all of our witnesses, where could NOAA 
better allocate resources in order to collect or provide the 
most accurate data that would lend better outcomes for farmers 
and producers? And this is a question for any one of you who 
would like to answer.
    Dr. Dello. I'll jump in. As I mentioned in my testimony, 
the National Mesonet Program is a vehicle that's already in 
place. We are receiving funding from them. If we got more 
funding, then we could serve more people. So there is not a 
week that goes by that we don't get a call in our office from a 
farmer, from a producer who wants an Econet station of their 
own, and we just can't promise it with the amount of funding 
that we get right now.
    Mr. McManus. I'd also like to jump in on the National 
Mesonet Program. While Oklahoma has a robust and the so-called 
gold standard for Mesonets, we are impacted by the lack of 
Mesonet coverage in other States in our border areas. So if 
you're in the southern region of Oklahoma along the Red River, 
there's not a northern Texas Mesonet, so those counties on our 
southern border are not allowed to have the same type of 
coverage in the central part of the State that has Mesonet 
coverage. So weather traveling north from Texas is not covered 
for those folks. So, you know, not only for those Mesonets that 
exist, but further funding to establish Mesonets in States that 
don't have the more robust coverages.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you.
    Ms. Jones. And if I could chime in as well, in California, 
we've partnered with NOAA in the funding and installation of 
atmospheric river observatories to capture these very large, 
important winter storms that cause flooding, and we've been 
making great progress, even using hurricane hunter flights to 
go out and improve the forecasts of these. But getting the 
locations of these storms right is very important.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Jones. And I'm sorry, Mr. 
Snodgrass, I'm out of time and I yield back.
    But I now recognize Ranking Member Ross, five minutes of 
questions.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I noted in my opening 
statement, NOAA supports and facilitates the transfer of 
information and data to the many users through the Climate 
Adaptation Partnership Program. Programs like these are 
critical to ensuring information is reaching the right users in 
a format tailored to their needs. Dr. Dello, I'm sure you're 
surprised my first question is for you. You have vast 
experience developing and overseeing NOAA CAP programs, 
including North Carolina's. Could you elaborate on what the CAP 
program is doing well and how it could be improved to serve the 
public better?
    Dr. Dello. Yeah, thank you for your question. The CAP 
program has been around for I want to say almost 30 years, and 
it's well-established, it's well-known. You can go into a 
community and say we are with the CAP/RISA, and there's a bit 
of credibility with that. Again, the funding is very limited, 
and it has to go across multiple institutions across North and 
South Carolina in our case. And also, we are trying to give 
back to the communities that we work in so that we don't just 
parachute in, have our five-year grant, and leave, that we 
leave the communities better than we found them, but we're also 
working with them to coproduce knowledge.
    So I think some of the fundamentals of the CAP program have 
worked really well, but we just can't reach all the 
communities, so we need to think a little bit more about how 
we're scaling that knowledge, transferring that knowledge, how 
States without a CAP/RISA, including the Midwest, can benefit 
from some of the work that we've done, and how we can pull in 
some of the other Federal climate centers a little bit better 
like the Department of Interior and USDA (United States 
Department of Agriculture) climate centers as well. So I think, 
you know, the CAP program has a lot of momentum, it has a lot 
of promise, but we are just under-resourced.
    Ms. Ross. And can you tell us a little bit about those 
relationships with the communities? So after you've developed 
those relationships, are there any kind of ongoing projects 
that go on with those communities and give an example of one 
that's been successful?
    Dr. Dello. Yes, so we started in late 2021, so there was a 
fair bit of trust building that we're doing, but we were also 
building off relationships that those of us had in the region. 
And I will pick one community out in particular. It's the 
Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians in western North Carolina, 
federally recognized tribe. They approached us and said we need 
help planning for the next seven generations. We're thinking 
about climate change. They're up in western North Carolina 
where it's very mountainous. They're flood-prone, they're fire-
prone, and they just wanted us to step in. We spent a year 
getting to know each other, understanding concerns, making sure 
we trusted each other. They've been burned by researchers in 
the past. But one of the things that we started to do was just 
start to offer small things that we could do to start to build 
climate resilience. So in a couple of weeks, we are giving them 
an Econet station, and they will be able to then pair it with 
their air quality data and then go after funding and understand 
a little bit more about their air and climate risks in their 
community.
    And we also really like putting the data in the hands of 
the community. When they feel like they have ownership over the 
data, they may be more willing to trust it. So that's a--it's a 
burgeoning relationship. It's still growing, they're always 
still growing, but we feel really good about that one.
    Ms. Ross. That's a great example. Just one final question 
for you. As--and also for Mr. McManus if we have time for both 
of you. As State Climatologists, I'm sure you're familiar with 
long-term considerations in the context of planning for extreme 
weather events and climate change. Can you elaborate on the 
concerns of your constituents in these areas and what 
information from NOAA goes into the constituents' 
decisionmaking? And I'll have my constituent go first, and then 
hopefully there'll be a few minutes for you, Mr. McManus.
    Dr. Dello. Yes, I'll try to save some time for you, Gary. 
So I work really closely with North Carolina Department of 
Transportation. They're building bridges and roads for the next 
50, 100 years. And Hurricane Florence turned Interstate 40 into 
a river itself. So they're thinking about what routes needs to 
be prioritized. They're calling them resilient routes to 
preserve public safety and infrastructure, and they want to 
know how high should these bridges be? Should we buildup the 
road? Should we have wider shoulders? Should we have deeper 
culverts? So working with them to provide current and future 
data about some of the flooding risk.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you. Mr. McManus?
    Mr. McManus. Very quickly, coming from the calamitous 
weather capital of the United States, we're interested in all 
changes of hazardous weather in the next few decades, 
especially agriculture, which we hear a lot about, and we 
reference or leverage our NOAA partners for that type of 
information very heavily and provide that.
    Ms. Ross. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield back.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Ross.
    I now recognize the Member--the Chairman of the Full 
Committee, Mr. Lucas from Oklahoma.
    Chairman Lucas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    As we heard from Mr. McManus' testimony, the Oklahoma 
Mesonet is a tremendous resource to the State. However, we are 
not the only State that boasts this capacity as North Carolina 
is another leader within the National Mesonet Program. And I'm 
sure both Mr. McManus and Dr. Dello would share my personal 
disappointments to see that NOAA's proposed funding decrease 
for the National Mesonet in 2024 just to be upfront about it.
    And my next question kind of goes back to, Gary, your 
earlier comments. Although most of the National Mesonet data is 
just sent over an integrated system--State systems, some of it 
is collected by NOAA and its partners. So I put this question 
to both you and Dr. Dello to expand on what you've previously 
said. Could you talk more about how you use the National 
Mesonet Program and what it offers to States that that systems 
that States simply cannot provide? And note for the record when 
Gary talks about the adjoining States, literally the States 
that Oklahoma joins takes us all the way to the west State line 
of New Mexico, the north State line of Colorado, the 
Mississippi River on the east side of Missouri, literally to 
the Mississippi, and Arkansas, the international border of 
Mexico. So this issue about adjoining systems really matters, 
doesn't it, Gary?
    Mr. McManus. Yes, indeed it does. And of course when we 
talk about the National Mesonet Program, I know that it's very 
important for our National Weather Service forecasters in the 
State of Oklahoma, to be able to see those Mesonet stations and 
the data beyond our geopolitical boundaries because the 
weather, especially severe weather, knows no geopolitical 
boundary. So they do have that information at their disposal.
    Now, when I talk to Oklahoma emergency managers and public 
safety officials, they don't have that National Mesonet data at 
their disposal. They want that national--they want something 
from the National Weather Service or from NOAA that will allow 
them to see that broader range of the National Mesonet data so 
that they can use that in their ability to keep their people 
safe.
    Now, when we talk about just the mere aspect of the funding 
for the National Mesonet Program, that actually does allow 
Oklahoma to continue to maintain its outreach program, so like 
OK-First, OK-Fire. When there are, you know, other States that 
try to emulate those programs, there's simply not the funding 
available from their State coffers. So the National Mesonet 
Program is extremely important for Oklahoma in allowing us to 
keep our citizens safe and to keep our economy safe during that 
inclement weather that we get so often in the State of 
Oklahoma.
    Chairman Lucas. Dr. Dello, would you like to expand on 
that?
    Dr. Dello. Yes, so we use the funding, and we get a larger 
chunk of funding for the North Carolina Econet from North 
Carolina State University. It's very important for the College 
of Agriculture and Life Sciences. We partner closely with 
extension. We take that extra pot of National Mesonet Program 
funding and we hire entry-level technicians. We train them in 
coding, we train them in maintenance, we train them in just 
basic weather patterns and climate science, and then hopefully, 
you know, send them out into the world to do big things. So we 
use it as sort of a training program for our staff. We would 
love to have more people on board. North Carolina is a very 
long State, and for them to get from one end to the other, it 
takes a long time.
    Chairman Lucas. To touch just for a moment on a personal 
nature, in the Southern Plains and on the east side of the 
Rockies, fire is a very important part of Mother Nature. The 
restorative nature of it, it's just critically important, and 
we have a lot of prescribed burn organizations doing those in 
Oklahoma, volunteer groups, working with local fire entities 
and with their own equipment who need the kind of data you 
provide to be able to address those issues. It's not just wind 
direction or wind speed as you know, Gary. It's the humidity 
level. You produce those fire index statistics that they all 
use. No one goes into the field without their cell phone tuned 
in to your resources.
    As you alluded to on the nature of things, I live in Roger 
Mills County on the west State line, so there's always a bit of 
sensitivity about what's coming from Texas when we don't know 
for sure. But without the information the Mesonet provides, we 
could not be able to mimic nature in the preservation of the 
ecology in our area.
    And with that, just a thank you for what you do and all of 
you do, and we need to work together to make sure that the 
successes at State and Federal level continue.
    With that, I yield back.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee, 
Ms. Lofgren from California, for five minutes.
    Ms. Lofgren. Thank you very much. This is a very 
interesting hearing and I hope will lead to further success.
    You know, every 10 years we have redistricting in 
California. We have a citizens commission, and they did kind of 
an unusual thing. My district for many years has been Silicon 
Valley. I now have a district that's half Silicon Valley and 
half agriculture. And the tech, I hope, will be able to help 
the agricultural part. I mean, I've got--if you're eating 
strawberries, you're probably having a taste of Watsonville. If 
you're eating artichokes, you're having a taste of Castroville. 
If you're eating leafy greens that came from the Salinas 
Valley, it's the salad bowl of the world, and it's very 
vulnerable to climate catastrophes. This is an overstatement, 
but the flood control infrastructure was really aimed toward 
normal weather and not toward extremes.
    And I remember this early spring I was at Tanimura's 
headquarters, a big farm in Salinas Valley. I remember looking 
out saying these beautiful lakes, and they said, well, 
actually, those are our fields. So there was tremendous damage 
done to the ag sector, the series of storms in January, again 
in March. And having the S2S forecasts I think would assist us, 
the longer range in terms of first having more permanent 
infrastructure to protect important areas, but also emergency 
steps that could be taken. We were doing that in the rain, 
riprap, to try and prevent some flooding and it did work.
    So I'm interested, Ms. Jones, on the pilot project that you 
discussed. Obviously, NOAA does great work, but we want to do 
more. Could you give me the details of what's envisioned by 
that pilot project and what we might see from it?
    Ms. Jones. So one of the difficulties with improving S2S 
forecasting is that there's really been so little research in 
the subject, so this is an area that very much needs the 
research. And as two National Academy of Sciences reports have 
pointed out, as well as NOAA's own report, it isn't just one 
silver bullet that is the answer. It's a little bit of 
everything, improving the models, data assimilation, high-
performance computing capacity, targeted research to improve 
forecasts. And by doing all of these things we can make 
progress, and this includes fairly simple things like some of 
the research that we funded in California, just pointing out if 
we can do much better than NOAA's NMME (North American Multi-
Model Ensemble) with a simple statistical forecast, this shows 
us how much we need to improve.
    One of the areas that clearly needs to be improved is that 
NOAA's existing outlooks rely very heavily on El Nino Southern 
Oscillation, or ENSO conditions, but we now know that for much 
of the West, including California and the Upper Colorado River 
Basin, that's only a really small piece of actually what 
happens. So it's figuring out what other things besides ENSO 
are contributing to these factors that would improve 
forecasting not just for California, but also for the rest of 
the Nation as well because if you fix models for one part of 
the country, you help out others as well.
    Ms. Lofgren. What are the other pieces other than El Nino?
    Ms. Jones. Well, it could be things like the Madden-Julian 
Oscillation, for example, at the subseasonal timescale, 
tropical convection that occurs well to the west of us, then 
propagates in our direction that really influences things that 
are short time period. And improving these subseasonal 
forecasts would be really helpful for Forecast-Informed 
Reservoir Operations, or FIRO. And we are now doing three FIRO 
pilot projects in California that demonstrate significant 
potential for improving the efficiency of reservoir operations.
    Ms. Lofgren. That's very helpful. Thank you so much to each 
one of you for your excellent and informative testimony, and I 
yield back.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ranking Member Lofgren.
    I now recognize Mr. Posey out of Florida for five minutes.
    Mr. Posey. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I was--
learned a lot already this hearing. I always thought that all 
the weather folks were much better connected. You know, I 
really did. I just thought it was a system that worked well. 
And, unfortunately, I'm kind of sad to hear it's more like 
Congress, you know?
    You all represent different areas of the country and have 
different views. And, you know, on the Space Coast, obviously, 
we need up-to-date, timely weather information for our launch 
schedules, or, you know, we're in deep yogurt. So I just wonder 
if each of you could speak to the relationship that you have 
with NOAA to receive the information that you need on a timely 
basis. Just kind of capsulate it. You've all touched on it a 
little bit already.
    Mr. McManus. You bet, and thanks, Congressman Posey. And 
it's great to recognize an accent finally that I can get in 
line with. You know, we get our--all the data and the 
information from NOAA, and it's really our job to translate and 
disseminate that information. So whether it's the subseasonal 
or seasonal forecasts, whether it's outlooks or anything of 
that nature that we get from NOAA, we then take and we try and 
translate that for the decisionmakers and the citizens of the 
State of Oklahoma. You know, it's important that we not only 
translate that data but prevent bad translation, so in some 
ways, it's a preemptive strike because when you're talking 
about, let's say, the subseasonal outlooks, just the June 
outlook that just came out, those will get very badly 
misinterpreted by those in parts of the weather community. So 
if I translate those to the best of my ability from working 
with those NOAA partners, then I can possibly prevent that from 
getting too far out of bounds to our users.
    Dr. Dello. At the North Carolina State climate office, 
we're co-located with the National Weather Service in Raleigh, 
and that's a really great model. They send their climate 
questions downstairs, we send our weather forecast questions 
upstairs, and we're able to work together to understand where 
we need new Mesonet stations, where some data are missing, 
where we can fill some gaps.
    We're also--we work closely with the National Center for 
Environmental Information in Asheville, North Carolina. We use 
a lot of their data to contextualize what we're doing in 
communities. We have, I would say, a really strong NOAA 
alignment in North Carolina. Sometimes it can get jumbled 
across NOAA line offices. We'll be hearing from the Weather 
Service, and we'll be hearing from the Office of Atmospheric 
Research, and it sometimes doesn't seem like they're talking.
    Mr. Posey. Mr. Snodgrass?
    Mr. Snodgrass. Yes, I would kind of consider myself a super 
user of NOAA's data. About every day, I pull down roughly four 
terabytes of their information and process it to build 
applications that allow the U.S. grower to understand weather 
risk. And I'll just say this because I also work in other parts 
of the world, including Australia, Europe, South America. 
NOAA's data dissemination comparatively is second to none. That 
doesn't mean there isn't improvement, but the availability of 
datasets that come in all varieties of formats that we are used 
to in software development plus APIs (application programming 
interfaces), that's a major step up from some other places.
    But, as you all know, getting raw data requires, as was 
mentioned here, interpretation and understanding, and that's 
where our role is vital in the partnership with NOAA to make 
sure that information is out there in a timely and accurate way 
that's interpretable. So it's a big task, but NOAA does a good 
job at it.
    Mr. Posey. Ms. Jones?
    Ms. Jones. So we have a great relationship with NOAA at the 
weather timescale. One of NOAA's 13 river forecast centers, the 
California Nevada River Forecast Center, is co-located with our 
office at the Department of Water Resources, and we work very 
closely with them. Likewise, in the Colorado River Basin 
Forecast Center, the basin States work closely with them on 
their development of the water supply forecasts for the 
Colorado River. And interestingly, we've identified that one of 
the difficulties with their forecasts, about half of the 
forecast error in the runoff forecasts is because of the lack 
of quality of the subseasonal precipitation forecasts. So we 
have a long working relationship with NOAA at the weather 
timescale. And at the subseasonal, seasonal timescale, we've 
funded research work with NOAA to improve that, and I 
particularly want to call out our partnership with the Earth 
Systems Research Lab in Boulder.
    Mr. Posey. OK. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I see 
my time is about to expire, and I yield back.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Posey.
    I now recognize Ms. Bonamici from Oregon for five minutes 
of questions.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the 
witnesses for your testimony. It's been fascinating to listen 
to because back in the 115th Congress and for some time even 
before that I worked with now-Chairman Lucas and colleagues on 
the bipartisan Weather Research and Forecasting Innovation Act 
and hearing some of the challenges is exactly what we were 
intending to address, acknowledge the progress made and the 
need to do more. You know, we really wanted to strengthen the 
capabilities and the communication.
    So reauthorization is necessary to again sustain and 
buildupon the achievements that we made and the advancements. 
Actually, one of my first bills as a Member of Congress--I 
represent the north coast, as Dr. Dello knows, in in Oregon, 
the Pacific Northwest coast, and one of my first bills was to 
reauthorize the Tsunami Warning Program, which expires this 
year, and so I'm hopeful we can work on that because it really 
does play a critical role in saving lives, minimizing property 
damage, fostering community resilience by offering early 
warnings and enhancing public safety.
    So, Dr. Dello, you mentioned the important role that State 
climate offices play--thank you for all you did for Oregon and 
all you're doing for North Carolina--in translating climate 
information into useful and usable knowledge and bridging the 
gap between scientists and decisionmakers and community 
members. So I know you appreciate the risk of tsunami. You 
know, we have the Cascadia Subduction Zone off our coast. So 
from your perspective, how important are warning systems like 
the tsunami warning system? And how do these systems enhance 
your ability to respond to potential weather-related hazards 
and safeguard the well-being of those at risk from tsunami or 
severe weather events?
    Dr. Dello. Yes, thank you for your question. Oregon will 
always have a deep place in my heart. So yes, they're so 
critical. Anytime I would go to the Oregon coast, I would see 
the signs, I would look for safe places, I would think about 
where my exits would be. And I think just those small bits of 
communication and outreach that people are doing on the Oregon 
coast are very effective, and we need those warning systems so 
that people can then actually use them.
    Ms. Bonamici. You don't have a lot of time to outrun a 
tsunami, maybe 15 minutes----
    Dr. Dello. No, yes----
    Ms. Bonamici [continuing]. For a nearshore tsunami.
    Dr. Dello. And I'm going to also point to another event in 
your region, the Pacific Northwest heat dome, 116 degrees in 
Portland, Oregon. I remember sitting there looking at my iPhone 
and seeing the forecast and saying this is impossible. It's 
impossible. And it verified. And this was something that we 
weren't expecting to happen in Oregon in 2021. And there's 
limited data in a lot of the areas in Oregon. Oregon doesn't 
have a Mesonet. There's not constant urban heat monitoring in 
places like Portland that lack shade. So having a heat warning 
system for the Pacific Northwest, which I never thought I'd be 
sitting in Congress talking about, is crucial, too.
    Ms. Bonamici. Exactly. You anticipated my next question, 
Dr. Dello, because you mentioned, you know, 2021, you were one 
of the lead organizations on the NOAA National Integrated Heat 
Health Information System's (NIHHIS's) urban heat mapping 
campaign. Boy, that's long. But, you know, of course, NIHHIS is 
the program to--we need to formalize this in its efforts and 
require NIHHIS advanced research on extreme heat, environmental 
justice and equity. And there was someone from Portland State, 
a Portland State University professor who was doing some of 
that work, and it was actually in parts of Portland even 
hotter, up in the 120's, which is really dangerous.
    So how do partnerships like this bolster the climate 
assessment program's capacity to reach a broader constituency, 
promote awareness, and inform decisionmaking? And could the 
Weather Act reauthorization help increase partnerships like 
NIHHIS urban heat mapping campaigns to increase the likelihood 
that resources are actually going to use--be used to address 
community specific demands?
    Dr. Dello. Yes. So we did the mapping campaign in Raleigh 
and Durham in 2021, and both Durham County and the city of 
Raleigh have taken that and implemented policy off of it. And 
because they were involved, because community members were 
involved, they are a little bit more likely to trust the data. 
They helped generate it, they see it, they see their 
communities, and they see the disparities across Durham, which 
was redlined. In Raleigh, that wasn't. And I think they are 
really good programs for generating buzz, getting one-time 
maps, but we need constant monitoring of urban heat. We just 
can't sustain urban heat monitoring on the backs of 150 
volunteers that I bought doughnuts for who showed up at 6 a.m. 
and drove their cars around that day.
    So I think one of the things that we're doing with the 
North Carolina Mesonet is that we have black globe 
thermometers, which help us calculate heat stress. So expanding 
those across the country's Mesonet system would be really 
crucial and a first step.
    Ms. Bonamici. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I'm out of 
time, but I really--I'll submit this for the record--want to 
ask about the extreme weather events and emergency response 
agencies and first responders. So I'll submit this to the 
record because I'd like to hear from all of you about how 
you've worked in emergency response context, and--but I'm out 
of time. I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Ms. Bonamici.
    I now recognize Mr. Garcia from California for five minutes 
of questions.
    Mr. Garcia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for letting me 
join the Subcommittee here, very important discussion. Thanks 
to our witnesses for the testimony.
    I come from California, southern California, North L.A. 
County, and we would be the benefactors of this technology 
being fully realized, the forecasting models being tightened 
up. Obviously, I would submit--and, Ms. Jones, you can probably 
either validate this or not, but I would submit that in 
California specifically, it's not that we don't get enough rain 
over a certain period of time, maybe a 10- to 12-year paradigm, 
and it's not even necessarily that we don't have enough 
capacity. It's that we don't necessarily have the information 
needed to make timely decisions around the water management 
itself, how we're moving water from one storage facility to the 
next, and even implementing drought sort of provisions on 
residents and farmers throughout the State.
    Can you walk me through--I know Ms. Lofgren asked about 
this pilot project that you guys are working, but can you walk 
me through sort of what the end state sort of nominal vision 
is, the ebb and flow of droughts, and then these atmospheric 
rivers, to be able to forecast those correctly to be able to 
then compensate for them correctly during a drought, hold the 
water during the atmospheric rivers, be able to move water to 
areas for storage in anticipation of the next sort of drought 
period? But let's assume we've gotten all of the technology 
investments and the tools matured. From an operational 
perspective, what would that look like in California as far as 
water management after that?
    Ms. Jones. Well, so this water year would be a great 
example because we went into the wet season after having the 
three driest years of record, and all of a sudden, we were 
handed very large amounts of precipitation in a very short 
time, that, frankly, overwhelms the capacity of water 
infrastructure to manage. So while it's great we had a lot of 
water, all of our reservoirs are full. We can only store so 
much of it. We are then in a flood response mode. And as was 
mentioned in the Salinas Valley area, the Pajaro River, for 
example, experienced flooding challenges.
    But one of the big outcomes of this is how could we better 
improve groundwater recharge? Because that's a very important 
part of our water budget in California is we don't have these 
big events very often, but when we do, we need to put as many 
molecules of that water underground as possible so we can use 
them again in a future dry year. And we've taken a number of 
steps this winter to try emergency and urgent groundwater 
recharge opportunities, including executive orders facilitating 
this, and--or even providing a service where we have secured a 
number of high capacity, large rental pumps, and we are 
providing those to agencies that can put some of this water in 
places that aren't usually used for recharge such as orchards 
or dormant fields. So if we can fine tune and maximize that 
kind of capacity, that's a huge step in when we do get these 
occasional various bounteous years, of setting that aside for 
the drier ones.
    Mr. Garcia. Would you say that right now from an 
infrastructure perspective, from a just volume of capacity, 
either in the groundwater storage facilities or in potential 
groves and farmlands that we have enough capacity right now? Or 
should we--while we are also investing in the technology--also 
be investing in the infrastructure to enhance and increase the 
capacity so that when we get to the drought periods, we can 
still meet the demands without telling farmers they can't water 
their--you know, their almond trees and without telling 
residents they can't water their lawns? They may get close to 
depleted, but we ultimately can still meet those demands. From 
a capacity perspective are we as a State there yet or do we 
need more?
    Ms. Jones. Well, the enactment of our California 
Sustainable Groundwater Management Act really puts a premium on 
increasing groundwater recharge everywhere we can, and to do 
that in much of the State, we will need a significant 
investment in conveyance capacity to move these very high flows 
that occur during infrequent wet events to someplace where they 
can be managed and stored for future use. A number of local 
agencies have made good starts in that area, but there's a lot 
more to be done.
    Mr. Garcia. So pumps and channels and canals to manage that 
conveyance.
    Last question, have we gotten any more sophisticated I'll 
say in terms of measuring snowpack? You know, for the last 
several decades, it seems there's a guy with a stick that goes 
up there and measures the--it seems like with LIDAR (light 
detection and ranging) and ground-penetrating radar and AI 
(artificial intelligence) and advanced algorithms, we should be 
able to quantify the volume of water in the mountains without 
having one dude on--with a stick on one peak or a few. Has that 
changed at all?
    Ms. Jones. Yes, we've made a big investment in aerial 
monitoring from aircraft. And I know I'm out of time now, but 
we are spending a lot of money on that right now, but it's very 
expensive.
    Mr. Garcia. We'll help you with that as well, as well as 
the Coast Guard to hurricane hunters in the ARs.
    So I yield back. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    Chairman Miller. Thank you, Mr. Garcia.
    I now recognize Mr. Frost from Florida for five minutes of 
questions.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you so much 
for being here.
    Section 104 of the 2017 Weather Act created a mandate to 
develop and extend hurricane forecasts and warning. As a result 
of that mandate, this year sees the first use of the Hurricane 
Analysis Forecasting System, or HAFS. Because it can track 
multiple storms at the same time and factor in how storm 
systems interact, HAFS should be--should make hurricane 
forecasting 30 percent more precise.
    Dr. Dello, hurricane season started last week, and once 
again, my central Florida constituents live in the path of a 
potentially devastating storm. What will hurricane forecasting 
that is 30 percent more precise mean for my constituents?
    Dr. Dello. Yes, so you and I know that it just takes one 
hurricane, but the amount of lead time that we have is crucial, 
especially for low-income people who may not be able to just 
pick up and leave their lives behind and have to make alternate 
plans to live in a place for a few weeks. So even getting 48, 
72 hours on a forecast is crucial. And the National Hurricane 
Center does really, really good work, and they've improved so 
much in the past 20 years, but if we can even push it a little 
bit further, I think that will, you know, help some of the most 
vulnerable among us.
    Mr. Frost. A hundred percent. I mean--and hurricanes are 
not, you know, news to Floridians. I mean, the hurricanes are 
devastating. I grew up, you know, doing hurricane parties with 
my family, right? It's a very normal part of living in the 
State of Florida. But what matters is where and when it's 
going, right, where it's going and when it's going to come. A 
recent example is Hurricane Ian. Until late--very late in its 
path, as we all know, it was supposed to hit the Tampa area and 
it hit it up--ended up hitting southwest Florida where it 
completely decimated Fort Myers Beach. And many people did not 
understand the danger they were in until it was too late.
    The purpose of section 406 of the Weather Act is to create 
warnings that prevent the loss of life and property. Mr. 
McManus, not all people who can evacuate ahead of a storm do. 
And how can a renewed Weather Act help us get a better 
understanding of the social and behavioral factors that go into 
why some people might choose not to evacuate?
    Mr. McManus. Yes, thank you for the question. Of course in 
Oklahoma, you know, Okies are born and raised with weather 
warnings, weather watches of all manner, but those warnings are 
not always heeded by the public, as you said. So that's where 
the social sciences need to come in and better translate those 
warnings to where the public can understand those but also take 
the proper heed when necessary.
    You know, in Oklahoma, we still have people that think the 
tornado sirens are for people sitting in their houses watching 
TV or sleeping when they're mainly for outdoors. So it's those 
kinds of challenges that need to be studied by the social 
sciences and, you know, elaborated on to--and the end product 
would help save lives for the betterment of all the 
communities.
    Mr. Frost. Thank you. And, Dr. Della, I mean, you know from 
your work in North Carolina, we might experience the same storm 
in name, but we don't always experience the same storm in terms 
of impact. Not everybody has a smartphone or cable television 
with the up-to-date--up-to-minute warnings or a car to make 
their escape or a neighborhood free of flooding. That happened 
in my district. The neighborhoods that were hit the hardest in 
terms of storm surge were poor neighborhoods. Or not everyone 
has a landlord that keeps their apartment up to code. 
Disability advocates in Florida will also tell folks that they 
face numerous dangerous planning oversights when trying to plan 
an evacuation.
    Dr. Dello, through a renewed Weather Act, what additional 
steps can we take to improve last-minute, last-mile warnings 
and getting vulnerable populations to safety?
    Dr. Dello. Yes, this is a great question. So obviously, 
warnings need to not just be in English but also Spanish in 
many areas in this country. We need to ensure that we're not 
just relying on people having cell phones or broadband 
technology. There are places in North Carolina that are still 
on dial-up. And we have to work with community groups. They are 
on the ground. They know how to reach people. And it won't be 
one size fits all. What works in Florida may not work in North 
Carolina. But we're going to have to do this at the community 
level using those trusted messengers to ensure that the people 
who are hit first and worse by climate change are safe.
    Mr. Frost. The vast majority of Floridians that died in 
Hurricane Ian were over 65 years old, and when you get into the 
details, it's heartbreaking because a lot of them died from--
you know, in very horrible ways, people deprived of oxygen 
because they lost power, people going without dialysis, people 
having their hearts go out in extreme heat. And so there's a 
lot of work to do here, but I know together we'll be able to 
make a safer Florida and ensure that we have the resources 
necessary to get our most vulnerable populations, especially 
our seniors, to be safe in these storms.
    I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here, and I yield 
back.
    Chairman Miller. I thank the witnesses for their valuable 
testimony and the Members for their questions. The record will 
remain open for 10 days for additional comments and written 
questions from Members.
    This hearing is adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 11:21 a.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

                               Appendix

                              ----------                              


                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions




                   Answers to Post-Hearing Questions
Responses by Mr. Gary McManus
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

Responses by Ms. Jeanine Jones
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

Responses by Mr. Eric Snodgrass
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

Responses by Dr. Kathie Dello, Ph.D.
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] 

                                 [all]