    [House Hearing, 118 Congress]
    [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]

                     H.R. 2989, ``SAVE OUR SEQUOIAS ACT''

    =======================================================================

                              LEGISLATIVE HEARING

                                   before the

                         COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
                         U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                        ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                                 FIRST SESSION

                                   __________

                            Wednesday, May 10, 2023

                                   __________

                               Serial No. 118-22

                                   __________

           Printed for the use of the Committee on Natural Resources

                    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

            Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.govinfo.gov
                                       or
              Committee address: http://naturalresources.house.gov

                                   ______

                     U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE

    52-270 PDF                WASHINGTON : 2023

                         COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES

                         BRUCE WESTERMAN, AR, Chairman
                        DOUG LAMBORN, CO, Vice Chairman
                      RAUL M. GRIJALVA, AZ, Ranking Member

    Doug Lamborn, CO                    Grace F. Napolitano, CA
    Robert J. Wittman, VA		    Gregorio Kilili Camacho Sablan,
    Tom McClintock, CA		        CNMI
    Paul Gosar, AZ			    Jared Huffman, CA
    Garret Graves, LA		    Ruben Gallego, AZ
    Aumua Amata C. Radewagen, AS	    Joe Neguse, CO
    Doug LaMalfa, CA		    Mike Levin, CA
    Daniel Webster, FL		    Katie Porter, CA
    Jenniffer Gonzalez-Colon, PR	    Teresa Leger Fernandez, NM
    Russ Fulcher, ID		    Melanie A. Stansbury, NM
    Pete Stauber, MN		    Mary Sattler Peltola, AK
    John R. Curtis, UT		    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, NY
    Tom Tiffany, WI			    Kevin Mullin, CA
    Jerry Carl, AL			    Val T. Hoyle, OR
    Matt Rosendale, MT		    Sydney Kamlager-Dove, CA
    Lauren Boebert, CO		    Seth Magaziner, RI
    Cliff Bentz, OR			    Nydia M. Velazquez, NY
    Jen Kiggans, VA			    Ed Case, HI
    Jim Moylan, GU			    Debbie Dingell, MI
    Wesley P. Hunt, TX		    Susie Lee, NV
    Mike Collins, GA
    Anna Paulina Luna, FL
    John Duarte, CA
    Harriet M. Hageman, WY

                        Vivian Moeglein, Staff Director
                          Tom Connally, Chief Counsel
                     Lora Snyder, Democratic Staff Director
                       http://naturalresources.house.gov

                                     ------

                                   CONTENTS

                                  ----------
                                                                       Page

    Hearing held on Wednesday, May 10, 2023..........................     1

    Statement of Members:

        McCarthy, Hon. Kevin, a Representative in Congress from the
          State of California, Speaker of the U.S. House of
          Representatives............................................     1
        Westerman, Hon. Bruce, a Representative in Congress from the
          State of Arkansas..........................................     4
        Grijalva, Hon. Raul M., a Representative in Congress from the
          State of Arizona...........................................     6

    Statement of Witnesses:

        Moore, Randy, Chief of the Forest Service, U.S. Department of
          Agriculture, Washington, DC................................     7
            Prepared statement of....................................     9
            Questions submitted for the record.......................    10
        Townsend, Hon. Dennis, Chairman and Supervisor, District 5,
          Tulare County Board of Supervisors, Visalia, California....    11
            Prepared statement of....................................    12

        Nelson, Joanna, Save the Redwoods League, San Francisco,
          California.................................................    13
            Prepared statement of....................................    15

        Desai, Neal, National Parks Conservation Association,
          Washington, DC.............................................    20
            Prepared statement of....................................    22
        Nieto, Hon. Shine, Vice Chairman, Tule River Indian Tribe of
          California, Porterville, California........................    23
            Prepared statement of....................................    25

    Additional Materials Submitted for the Record:

        Submissions for the Record by Representative McCarthy

            Fresno County Board of Supervisors, Letter dated April
              27, 2023...............................................    54
            Kern County Board of Supervisors, Letter dated April 26,
              2023...................................................    55
            Tulare County Board of Supervisors, Letter dated April
              26, 2023...............................................    56

        Submissions for the Record by Representative Ocasio-Cortez

            Sequoia Protection Action Plan...........................    43

        Submissions for the Record by Representative Grijalva

            The Wilderness Society, Letter dated May 10, 2023........    57

    LEGISLATIVE HEARING ON H.R. 2989, TO IMPROVE THE HEALTH AND RESILIENCY
      OF GIANT SEQUOIAS, AND FOR OTHER PURPOSES, ``SAVE OUR SEQUOIAS ACT''

                                  ----------

                            Wednesday, May 10, 2023

                         U.S. House of Representatives

                         Committee on Natural Resources

                                 Washington, DC

                                  ----------

        The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:15 a.m., Room
    1324, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Bruce Westerman
    [Chairman of the Committee] presiding.

        Present: Representatives Westerman, Lamborn, Radewagen,
    LaMalfa, Webster, Fulcher, Stauber, Curtis, Tiffany, Carl,
    Boebert, Bentz, Moylan, Collins, Luna, Duarte, Hageman;
    Grijalva, Huffman, Porter, Leger Fernandez, Peltola, Ocasio-
    Cortez, Hoyle, and Kamlager-Dove.

        Also present: Representatives McCarthy; and Peters.

        The Chairman. The Committee on Natural Resources will come
    to order.
        Without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare a
    recess of the Committee at any time.
        The Committee is meeting today to hear testimony on H.R.
    2989, the Save Our Sequoias Act.
        I ask unanimous consent that the gentlemen from California,
    Speaker McCarthy, Mr. Peters, and Mr. Panetta be allowed to
    participate in today's hearing from the dais.
        Without objection, so ordered.
        Under Committee Rule 4(f), any oral opening statements at
    hearings are limited to the Chairman and the Ranking Minority
    Member. Therefore, I ask unanimous consent, that all other
    Members' opening statements be made part of the hearing record
    if they are submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3(o).
    Without objection, so ordered.
        I will now recognize the sponsor of this legislation,
    Speaker Kevin McCarthy, for his statement.

       STATEMENT OF THE HON. KEVIN McCARTHY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
      CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA, SPEAKER OF THE U.S.
                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

        Speaker McCarthy. Thank you Chairman Westerman for holding
    today's hearing on the Save Our Sequoias, or the SOS Act, which
    Congressman Peters and I introduced earlier this year, along
    with you, and Mr. McClintock, who sits on this Committee.
        Thank you to our witnesses today, and I want to include two
    special ones: Vice Chair Shine Nieto and Tulare County
    Supervisor Dennis Townsend, both of whom are proudly my
    constituents. I am proud of you.
        I am very proud that you traveled all the way from
    California to be with us today, because I know how much you
    care about this issue, as well, and all the work that you have
    done to provide for our sequoias.
        I sit before you today to discuss the importance of Save
    Our Sequoias Act, a piece of legislation that came together
    after working with our constituents, and because Members from
    both sides of the aisle recognized the importance of a robust
    forest management reform to protect our giant sequoias.
        For millennia, giant sequoias have stood as one of the
    Earth's most impressive natural wonders, with some even dating
    back to the time of Christ. But over the last few years,
    devastating wildfires have led to the loss of over 20 percent
    of these iconic trees, which in their own habitats only die
    when they become so large that they would topple over.
        Last year, along with you, Mr. Chairman, we led a
    bipartisan group of Members touring the Giant Sequoia National
    Forest in Tulare, California, so we could see firsthand what
    the fire-related devastation is doing to these groves. As a
    result, the Save Our Sequoias Act was born. I remember on that
    trip that we would get in our cars together, go grove to grove,
    Republicans and Democrats, with a lot of different key
    individuals who care about them, and just studying what is
    causing this devastation. And that is how this bill was
    created.
        I am proud of the fact that we have 50 bipartisan co-
    sponsors who have shared commitment to protecting our giant
    sequoias for future generations.
        At its core, the SOS Act does four main things: it improves
    interagency coordination; it uses science to target high-
    priority groves for treatment; it expedites environmental
    review for groves' protection projects using streamlined
    emergency procedures already in place; and provides land
    managers with new resources to get the job done.
        As we went through studying the groves, we know what needs
    to be done. It really just needs this legislation to allow the
    individuals to make it happen, to protect it, and especially in
    California, with how intense these fires have come year after
    year. Time is of the essence. And every day we wait can harm
    these giant sequoias even greater.
        One thing I have known is when dead trees and underbrush
    around the giant sequoias fail to be removed, it creates a
    tinderbox serving as a natural accelerant for forest fires,
    acting like a ladder, allowing flames to get into the forest
    canopies, and ultimately threatening those ancient icons. This
    is unacceptable, and I believe this bill actually shows it from
    the very beginning.
        This is not a partisan bill; this is something that
    everybody can work together. And the time to act is actually
    now. Teddy Roosevelt once said, ``A grove of giant redwood
    sequoias should be kept just as we keep a great and beautiful
    cathedral.'' As the conservation president, his statement
    couldn't be more accurate. Perhaps that is why several giant
    sequoias have been planted on the U.S. Capitol grounds in order
    to preserve their history and inspire the awe to all of us.
        This bill is the result of the guidance and recommendations
    of those who know best, folks on the ground who work day in and
    day out with the giant sequoias. And that is why, from Tulare
    County, the Tule River Indian Tribe to the Giant Sequoias
    National Monument Association and others, combined with the
    technical input from the U.S. Forest Service and National Park
    Service, this legislation would not have been possible.
        With that said, what I would like to do in introducing
    this, Mr. Chairman, I have a short video, ``The Last of the
    Monarchs,'' which was produced by Mariposa County Resources
    Conservation District, and I think really drives the point home
    about the need for action now to protect the giant sequoias. If
    I could, I would like to show that video to all. It really sets
    the tone of what we are dealing with.
        The Chairman. And we will play the video now.
        [Video shown.]
        Speaker McCarthy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for allowing me
    to show that. Not everybody got to travel out to see the giant
    sequoias. The thing that is really most moving is lots of times
    you will find legislation where one Member will just sit and
    just write it and put it for their district. This is something
    that Members on both sides of the aisle traveled together.
        It is devastating to watch this. They don't grow any other
    place, except on the western side of the Sierras. Longer than
    life of Christ. And every generation has the responsibility to
    keep it. Normally, they just tumble because they become too
    large after 2,500 years, and fall. But in 2 years, we lost 20
    percent of them.
        Everybody, regardless of your philosophical opinion,
    understands how we can save them. We have seen it. And we sat
    down with all the key players. We had the different meetings
    and, collectively, we came up with this legislation. There is
    one thing Congress can do as a whole together, is make sure
    these sequoias are around for the next generation to see them
    and honor them. And if you go through them, they are just so
    iconic and so massive. We have made part of them, some groves
    into a national monument, but that doesn't save them from a
    fire.
        So, what I would really like to do, if we can move this
    bill together, we get it through the Senate, I think
    collectively the whole Committee should go with us. And before
    we send it down to the President we should sign it inside the
    grove, collectively, together, and show the nation that this
    national monument, what these trees mean, and that we don't let
    politics get in the way of doing what is the best use of
    keeping something as iconic as this.
        And if you travel here you will find they are not just
    enjoyed by those in the region. Around the world will come to
    America and just to these groves, just to see them. The Forest
    Service, if you look at their badge, their hat, that is a giant
    sequoia sitting there. And I thought the comment in this video
    at the end, ``Bureaucracy moves slow, fires move fast,'' I
    would like to change that and show the country where our values
    are and where we care most, and that we put them before all
    others.
        So, thank you for the opportunity, thank you for the panel
    today, thank you for those who traveled so far to be a part of
    it that know it. And I feel very honored that we have a
    Chairman that knows more about trees than anyone I have ever
    learned.
        And we have been working on this for quite some time, where
    he would bring experts in. With the National Geographic, we
    watched this tree here, stood next to it. It is on the cover.
    And the difference that everybody can sit together, and how do
    we make sure they save the next. So, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
    Thank you for the opportunity.

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you for
    your leadership on the Save Our Sequoias Act. I know that the
    majority of the groves are actually in your district, and I
    appreciate your work and the bipartisanship.
        [Audio malfunction.]
        The Chairman. And we seem to be having problems with this
    microphone.
        I think this one works better. I now recognize myself for
    an opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. BRUCE WESTERMAN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                  CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARKANSAS

        The Chairman. The video that we just watched asks whether a
    team of scientists, firefighters, and loggers could come
    together to save the remaining giant sequoias. I would expand
    that question to everyone in this room, and challenge each of
    you to work with us across party lines to prevent these giants
    from going extinct on our watch. I have made statements before
    that this can't happen on our watch. I am going to do
    everything in my power to make sure it doesn't happen on our
    watch.
        When I was in forestry school, we didn't even think a giant
    sequoia could be killed by fire. They were considered virtually
    indestructible when it came to fire. And on the field trip, we
    learned from the Forest Service that the last evidence of one
    of these monarchs being destroyed by fire until recent history
    was in 1297. Think about that: 1297, and then in 2 years we
    lost, as the video said, 10 percent of the monarchs, about 20
    percent of the groves.
        Giant sequoias rely on low-intensity, frequent fire to thin
    ladder fuels and to clean the duff off the forest floor. And in
    fact, that is what happened in these groves for thousands of
    years; they averaged 30 fires per century. That is what the
    academic research shows. But in the last century, they only
    averaged three fires per grove.
        [Chart.]
        The Chairman. You can see that illustrated on this chart.
    And what happened because of that was the shade-tolerant
    species such as the white fir trees and some pine trees that
    normally would be taken out by the frequent fires, they were
    protected from the fire, so they began to grow in the
    understory. And you give these white fir trees or some pine
    trees that much time to grow, even in the shade, and they can
    get to be 100-foot-tall trees. And it creates what we call
    ladder fuel.
        [Slide.]
        The Chairman. And you can see it illustrated greatly. This
    photograph was taken from the same place. You see the giant
    sequoia trees, and you see the white fir trees growing up where
    the tips of the white fir trees are now up into the canopy of
    the giant sequoias. You can see when the fire came through, the
    fire ran up the white fir tree, got into the crown of the
    sequoias, and wiped the sequoias out. If that white fir tree
    wasn't there, the fire would have never got up into the crown.
        If we don't clear out these hazardous fuels, it is not an
    exaggeration to say, as the video said, the giant sequoias
    could disappear in our lifetime. We have all seen pictures of
    giant sequoias wrapped in tin foil during these mega-fires. But
    honestly, that really doesn't do much to help these trees. The
    bark on some of these trees is 2 feet thick. God made these
    trees insulated from fire. They don't really need foil. But we
    go to great efforts to try to save these trees.
        And you can see what happens when the fire is coming. The
    firefighters go in and they start clearing the underbrush from
    around the sequoias. But the thing they do even more than that,
    that you will see in the next picture is they cut down the
    white fir trees that are growing up next to the sequoias. And I
    guess we don't have a picture of that.
        But keep in mind, they are not completing a NEPA analysis
    before any of this. That is the problem: We know what needs to
    be done, but we are only doing this work reactively, instead of
    proactively. We need to go in and do the work proactively
    before the fires get there.
        When you actually go out to these groves like we did on the
    bipartisan congressional delegation last year, as the Speaker
    talked about, there is an overwhelming consensus that we need
    to rapidly increase the pace and scale of forest management in
    and around these groves, and we need to do it now.
        When we visited the giant sequoias, we hosted a roundtable
    with many of the panelists you see here today, and everyone
    said the exact same thing. They said funding is a problem, but
    so are lengthy reviews under NEPA. There is no place to put
    hazardous fuels, once they are removed, and the land managers
    can improve their communication and collaboration. Those are
    the problems that we heard voiced.
        After these conversations on the ground, we created a
    comprehensive solution that rose to the occasion and treated
    this crisis like what it truly is, and that is an emergency.
    The bipartisan Save Our Sequoias Act will codify emergency
    actions, provide the necessary funding to complete the work,
    and enhance the coordination between the Federal, state,
    tribal, local, and private managers that all have a stake in
    the future of our giant sequoias.
        It is not every day that you see 50 bipartisan co-sponsors
    on a bill and more than 100 organizations supporting it,
    ranging from the National Congress of American Indians, to
    grassroots wildland firefighters, to the California Forestry
    Association. I hope that after today's hearing, Members on both
    sides of our dais will consider co-sponsoring this important
    piece of legislation because we need to ask ourselves if we
    want to stop the long-term damage from catastrophic wildfires.
    If we don't want to do that, then we need to support this bill.
        Again, I want to thank my friends and colleagues who are
    co-sponsoring this legislation. I again want to recognize
    Speaker McCarthy and Representative Peters, who are co-leads of
    the legislation, who are about as passionate about giant
    sequoias as I am and many others in this room are.
        Again, these trees only grow on 37,000 acres in California.
    They have withstood fires for millennia, and in the blink of an
    eye we could lose them all.
        Henry Ford once said that failure is an opportunity to
    begin again more intelligently. The Save Our Sequoias Act is an
    opportunity to begin managing giant sequoias more
    intelligently.
        I thank our witnesses for being here today, and I look
    forward to hearing their expert testimony.
        I indulged myself with some extra time, and I recognize the
    Ranking Member, Mr. Grijalva, for an opening statement.

      STATEMENT OF THE HON. RAUL M. GRIJALVA, A REPRESENTATIVE IN
                   CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ARIZONA

        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you very
    much. I appreciate you holding this hearing on a very, very
    important topic.
        It is encouraging to see so much attention, passion, and
    effort to preserve native plants and protect our public lands
    from the worst effects of climate change. We don't have
    sequoias in the Sonoran Desert, but we do have giant saguaro
    cacti, another iconic plant species that is threatened by the
    climate crisis and climate change. Today's hearing should mark
    the beginning of our work to protect public lands, advance
    sensible natural climate solutions, and mitigate the worst
    effects of climate crisis.
        When President Clinton designated the Giant Sequoia
    National Monument over 20 years ago, he said, and I quote, ``We
    are here because we recognize that these trees, though they
    live to be very old and grow very large, like life itself, are
    still fragile.'' He was right. And as we see now, the hotter
    temperatures and prolonged periods of drought brought on by
    climate change are creating conditions that even long-living,
    fire-adapted giant sequoias are unable to withstand.
        Fortunately, land managers are working around the clock to
    restore fire and ecological balance to these ancient tree
    groves. The Giant Sequoias Lands Coalition, for one, has
    treated more than 6,000 acres of sequoia groves in just the
    last year alone. That is one-fifth of all existing groves. And
    at Sequoia and Kings Canyon National Parks, land managers have
    a plan to protect nearly all of the groves within the next 3
    years. That doesn't sound to me like land managers who are
    sitting by idly waiting for the next large wildfire to occur.
        I should mention that all this work is being done in
    compliance with our environmental laws, including NEPA,
    Endangered Species, and the National Historic Preservation Act.
    These laws are working exactly as intended, providing enough
    flexibility to expedite restoration during a legitimate
    emergency, while also preventing undue consequences.
        Saving our sequoias doesn't have to mean selling out our
    environmental laws. Senator Feinstein and Senator Padilla from
    California knew that when they introduced a companion last
    Congress. They didn't attack environmental laws in that
    companion. The National Park Service and the Forest Service
    simply need the funding and the staff to do the job well.
        To that end, I am genuinely encouraged to see that this
    bill authorizes $200 million over the next 7 years, but I am a
    little bit puzzled. Under Republicans' own House Rules, any new
    program or funding has to be offset by cutting a program or
    funding elsewhere, but I don't see that offset anywhere in this
    legislation. Democratic bills have been blocked from hearings
    and markups for those very same reasons, so it is interesting
    to see if the Speaker's bill here today, a bill that violates
    their own rules, will continue. This certainly is a
    contradiction, and I think that contradiction warrants
    discussion.
        Another notable oversight worth pointing out is that over
    half of the existing giant sequoia groves are found in national
    parks, yet the Majority didn't invite the National Park Service
    to join us today. In their absence, we are fortunate to have
    Neal Desai from the National Parks Conservation Association,
    who can help us shed some light on the agency's ongoing efforts
    to steward our national parks and protect these giant trees.
        I hope that as the Committee moves forward on this
    legislation, we are able to do it in a truly bipartisan manner,
    not only incorporating the perspectives of all the relevant
    Federal land managers, but also that it does not set any
    dangerous precedents. I look forward to this hearing, and from
    all the witnesses testifying today, and welcome you to the
    Committee along with the Chairman.
        I yield back.

        The Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Grijalva, and we
    will now move on to witness testimony.
        Let me remind the witnesses that under Committee Rules, you
    must limit your oral statements to 5 minutes, but your entire
    statement will appear in the hearing record.
        To begin our testimony, please press the ``on'' button on
    the microphone.
        We use timing lights. When you begin, the light will turn
    green. At the end of 5 minutes, the light will turn red, and I
    will ask you to please complete your statement.
        I would now like to introduce Mr. Randy Moore, who is the
    Chief of the United States Forest Service.
        Chief Moore, you are now recognized for 5 minutes.

      STATEMENT OF RANDY MOORE, CHIEF OF THE FOREST SERVICE, U.S.
               DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, WASHINGTON, DC

        Mr. Moore. Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and
    members of the Committee, thank you for this opportunity to
    testify on the Save Our Sequoias Act.
        Prior to becoming Chief nearly 14 years ago, I spent about
    that amount of time as Regional Forester in the Pacific
    Southwest Region. This region includes California, Hawaii, and
    the affiliated Pacific Islands. I have seen firsthand the
    destruction that wildfires have on communities, infrastructure,
    and natural resources such as these magnificent groves.
        More than 100 years of fire exclusion, along with extensive
    drought, have left the great giant sequoia grove extremely
    vulnerable to wildfire. In the last 2 years alone, wildfires
    have destroyed nearly one-fifth of all giant sequoias. The last
    recorded evidence of this level of extensive giant sequoia
    mortality occurred over seven centuries ago. We can no longer
    stand by and watch as these American icons are lost to
    destructive wildfires.
        Last July, the Forest Service took extraordinary actions to
    allow immediate implementation of the fuels reduction
    treatments to reduce wildfire risk, particularly those that
    threaten the groves. We initiated these treatments utilizing
    existing authorities under the National Environmental Policy
    Act. The emergency fuels treatment encompasses over 13,000
    acres that will reduce wildfire risk to 12 giant sequoia groves
    by removing surface and ladder fuels.
        Environmental reviews required under NEPA have already been
    initiated for most of the planned treatments. Since approving
    this action, we have conducted work in 9 of the 12 groves,
    including removal of hazardous fuels from around nearly 4,500
    of those monarchs, treatments of over 1,500 acres through
    mechanical thinning and prescribed burning to reduce fuel
    loads.
        Our work in the groves continues, including prescribed
    burns planned in the fall of this year. This work is made
    possible through funding from the Bipartisan Infrastructure
    Law, as well as appropriations from Congress. The intent is to
    complete treatments by 2023, but some may continue through to
    the end of 2024.
        In addition to the agency's work in the sequoia groves, the
    Forest Service is using the emergency authorities found in the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to take urgent actions in other
    areas of the National Forest System. Six projects have already
    been approved on this authority to protect public health and
    safety, critical infrastructure, and natural resources. These
    vegetation management projects are focused on increasing the
    resiliency of communities and forest landscapes to wildfires,
    also decreasing the impacts of wildfires within the wildland-
    urban interface, allowing for more effective and safe responses
    to wildfires.
        The Forest Service expects to continue to strategically and
    thoughtfully use its suite of emergency authorities to
    accelerate fuel and forest health treatments across a variety
    of landscapes to address the wildfire crisis.
        Now, in regards to the Save Our Sequoias Act, the bill
    provides the USDA and the Department of the Interior
    administrative tools and procedures to address threats facing
    giant sequoias. The bill includes establishing a shared
    stewardship agreement for giant sequoias to enhance
    coordination with our partners, certifying the Giant Sequoias
    Lands Coalition to assess, prioritize, and inform forest
    management projects, and establishing protection projects with
    the goal of expediting forest restoration projects by
    codifying, streamlining existing and emergency procedures.
        The bill also directs USDA, DOI, and signatories of the
    Shared Stewardship Agreement to jointly develop and implement a
    Giant Sequoia Reforestation and Rehabilitation Strategy.
        In addition, the bill establishes a new grant program to
    advance, facilitate, or improve giant sequoia health and
    resiliency through Good Neighbor and also the Healthy Forest
    Restoration Act authorities.
        Now, while USDA has concerns with several aspects of the
    legislation as written, we appreciate the intent of the Save
    Our Sequoias Act, and we look forward to a continued discussion
    with the Committee and the bill sponsors on ways to expedite
    this important work.
        In closing, I want to reiterate that the agency's
    commitment of treating the situation facing the sequoias as the
    emergency that it is. We are very grateful to Congress in
    supporting our work to protect these national treasures.
        Thank you, and I welcome any questions you may have.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Moore follows:]
     Prepared Statement of Chief, Randy Moore, United States Department of
                          Agriculture--Forest Service
        Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and Members of the
    Committee, thank you for the opportunity to present the views of the
    U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) on the Save Our Sequoias Act
    under the jurisdiction of the USDA Forest Service (Forest Service).
        The Save Our Sequoias Act provides the USDA and the Department of
    the Interior (DOI) administrative tools and procedures to help address
    threats facing giant sequoias. The bill directs DOI to enter into a
    shared stewardship agreement for giant sequoias with USDA, the State of
    California, and the Tule River Indian Tribe to enhance coordination,
    conduct Protection Projects, and certify the Giant Sequoia Lands
    Coalition. This Coalition is directed to carry out a Giant Sequoia
    Health and Resiliency Assessment to prioritize and inform forest
    management projects, track project implementation, and study giant
    sequoia health and resiliency over time. In addition, this bill
    provides for the establishment of Protection Projects to respond to the
    threat of wildfires, insects, and drought to giant sequoias, with the
    goal of expediting forest restoration projects by codifying and
    streamlining existing emergency procedures.
        The bill directs USDA and DOI and signatories of the shared
    stewardship agreement to jointly develop and implement the Giant
    Sequoia Reforestation and Rehabilitation Strategy to enhance the
    reforestation and rehabilitation of giant sequoia groves. The bill also
    establishes a Giant Sequoia Strike Team to assist USDA and DOI with the
    implementation of the giant sequoia emergency response and Giant
    Sequoia Reforestation and Rehabilitation Strategy. And finally, the
    bill directs DOI, in consultation with other parties of the shared
    stewardship agreement, to establish a new grant program to advance,
    facilitate, or improve giant sequoia health and resiliency.
        Additionally, the bill amends the good neighbor authority, (Section
    8206 of the Agricultural Act of 2014 (16 U.S.C. 2113a)), to add
    activities related to the Save Our Sequoias Act, including authorizing
    an Indian tribe to retain receipts from the sale of National Forest
    System timber to conduct additional authorized watershed restoration
    work. The bill also amends Section 604(a)(2) of the Healthy Forests
    Restoration Act of 2003 (16 U.S.C. 6591c(c)), adding language to
    promote the health and resiliency of giant sequoias. Finally, the bill
    establishes the Giant Sequoia Emergency Protection Program and Fund by
    amending Chapter 1011 of title 54, United States Code.
        Since 2015, wildfires have caused significant destruction of the
    giant sequoia groves and have destroyed nearly one-fifth of all giant
    sequoias in two recent fire seasons. In July 2022, the Forest Service
    initiated emergency fuels reduction treatments under 36 CFR 220.4(b) to
    provide for the long-term survival of giant sequoia groves against
    immediate wildfire threats. These actions make use of a portion of the
    agency's existing flexible authorities under its National Environmental
    Policy Act (NEPA) implementing regulations to conduct emergency fuels
    treatments as expeditiously as possible. The agency is working to do
    more to reduce risks to giant sequoias using all the tools and
    flexibilities available. These emergency actions the agency is already
    taking to reduce fuels before a wildfire occurs will help protect
    unburned giant sequoia groves in high-severity wildfires.
        The emergency fuels treatments encompass approximately 13,377 acres
    on National Forest System lands that will reduce the wildfire risk to
    12 giant sequoia groves by removing surface and ladder fuels. These
    treatments include hand cutting of small trees, mechanical removal of
    trees, application of borate on green stumps, pulling duff away from
    the base of large giant sequoias and prescribed burning.
        Thus far, work has been accomplished in 9 of the 12 groves; 4,442
    Giant Sequoias have been treated for fuel reduction; approximately
    1,531 total acres have been treated; and crews have begun to burn 7,600
    piles, with over 2,200 piles already burned in 4 groves. Additionally,
    a Giant Sequoias Emergency Response Integrated Resource Service
    Contract has been awarded to three contractors for five groves.
        Environmental reviews required under NEPA have already been
    initiated for most of the planned treatments. With the emergency
    action, giant sequoias could receive accelerated protection by as much
    as 9 to 12 months earlier in most groves and years earlier in other
    groves. The intent is to complete most treatments by the end of 2023,
    but some may continue through the end of 2024. This work is made
    possible through funds from President Biden's Infrastructure Investment
    and Jobs Act, also known as the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, and
    appropriations from Congress and using existing NEPA flexibility.
        In addition to the agency's work in the sequoia groves, the Forest
    Service is using the additional authorities found under Section 40807
    of the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to take emergency actions to
    protect public health and safety, critical infrastructure, and natural
    resources on other areas of the National Forest System. Six projects
    have already been approved under this authority. These vegetation
    management projects are focused generally on increasing the resiliency
    of communities and forest landscapes to wildfire, decreasing the
    impacts of wildfires within the wildland urban interface, and allowing
    for an effective and safe response to wildfires. The Forest Service
    expects to continue to strategically and thoughtfully use its suite of
    emergency authorities to accelerate fuels and forest health treatments
    across a variety of landscapes.
        The emergency facing giant sequoias is unprecedented and USDA is
    already exercising our considerable flexibilities under the current
    suite of management authorities provided by Congress to reduce the risk
    to giant sequoias. While USDA has concerns with several aspects of the
    legislation as written, including concerns about duplication of
    existing authorities and timing requirements in certain provisions, we
    appreciate the intent of the Save Our Sequoias Act and looks forward to
    continued discussions with the Committee and bill sponsors on ways to
    expedite this important work.

                                     ______

    Questions Submitted for the Record to Chief Moore, Forest Service, U.S.
                           Department of Agriculture

    Mr. Moore did not submit responses to the Committee by the appropriate
    deadline for inclusion in the printed record.

                Questions Submitted by Representative Westerman
        Question 1. Chief Moore, this legislation would codify existing
    agency emergency authorities for the Giant Sequoia groves. What are the
    benefits of statutorily codifying administrative authorities?

                                     ______

        The Chairman. Thank you, Chief Moore, and thank you to you
    and folks at the Forest Service who have been doing great work
    with the resources you have to get on the ground and work on
    this problem.
        I now recognize the Honorable Dennis Townsend, the Chairman
    and Supervisor of District 5 of the Tulare County Board of
    Supervisors.
        You are recognized for 5 minutes.

    STATEMENT OF THE HON. DENNIS TOWNSEND, CHAIRMAN AND SUPERVISOR,
       DISTRICT 5, TULARE COUNTY BOARD OF SUPERVISORS, VISALIA,
                               CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Townsend. Thank you, Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member
    Grijalva, and members of the Committee. It really is an honor
    and a privilege to be here today. Thank you for inviting me to
    discuss this topic that is really dear to me and my community:
    protecting our nation's giant sequoia groves.
        I am Dennis Townsend. I am the Chair of the Tulare County
    Board of Supervisors. I also serve on committees on environment
    and land use with the rural county representatives of
    California, the California State Association of Counties, and
    the National Association of Counties.
        Many of these groves that we are talking about, including
    those in the Giant Sequoia National Monument, are in my
    supervisorial district. And what we are discussing today is
    quite literally in my backyard. I live about 200 feet from
    where the road closures were and the evacuation orders on the
    last 2 big fires. So, this is truly personal to me. It is not
    just a theoretical public policy discussion.
        We are living with the consequence of decades of failed
    forest management policies, although well-meaning policies. In
    1994, House hearings to consider establishment of the Giant
    Sequoia National Monument, locals from my area who actually
    live in Springville were here to testify, and they actually
    warned that if we changed to a passive forest management policy
    at that point in time, that we would see devastating fires in
    the upcoming years, exactly as what we have seen.
        We also created a video, it is in the background here that
    you are seeing, and this shows the stark contrast between a
    portion of the forest which is in state management and county
    management, and the Forest Service property after the Sequoia
    Complex Fire. I want you to note, when you see it, the
    intensity of the fire on the ring doorbell footage from the
    mountains just above my home.
        [Video shown.]
        Mr. Townsend. Tulare County is roughly the size of the
    state of Connecticut, and about 50 percent of its land mass is
    owned by the Federal Government. We are home to about 60 of the
    giant sequoia groves which contain the vast majority of the
    giant sequoia trees in the world today. The sequoias have been
    threatened by drought, by the related bark beetle infestation,
    and high severity fire.
        Over the past decade, wildfires have destroyed giant
    sequoia groves, critical habitat, and communities. More than 85
    percent of all giant sequoia grove acreage across the Sierra
    Nevada has burned in wildfires since 2015. Within that burn
    scar, 20 percent of the world's mature giant sequoias were lost
    in the Sequoia Complex Fire and Windy Fires alone, 20 percent,
    one-fifth. I really could not believe that statistic when I
    first heard that. And as has been mentioned by Chief Moore and
    also Chairman Westerman, the last recorded giant sequoia kill
    from wildfire was in 1297 AD.
        These iconic, majestic giants are simply irreplaceable in
    our lifetime. We cannot continue to steward them the way that
    we have been stewarding them for the last few decades, and have
    the possibility of losing so many more. High-severity fire is
    caused by the accumulation of fuels, a result of overly dense
    forests, and suppression of naturally occurring wildfires and
    high tree mortality. While the U.S. Forest Service has
    committed to change, and Congress has provided some tools, the
    management reality on the ground remains vastly unchanged, as
    is shown in these fires.
        NEPA and ESA reform are paramount to successfully managing
    our forests. In 2020, the U.S. Forest Service received a
    streamlined categorical exemption for hazard tree removal, but
    are not utilizing all these exemptions on the SQF and Windy
    Fire burn scars for fear of litigation. Organizations use NEPA
    and ESA to litigate projects that protect and improve critical
    ecosystems. This is counter to the intent of both of those
    Acts. I was personally involved in that roundtable that was
    mentioned, and I was amazed that all of those various
    organizations and people that are in this Committee all agree
    that what we have been doing for the last several decades is
    not working.
        But the type of management that we are talking about is
    actually possible. Look at Balch Park in Tulare County. Look at
    the Mountain Home Demonstration State Forest. They have more
    than 4,500 old-growth giant sequoias, and they were spared in
    these fires. You can hardly see the impact of the fires because
    of prescribed burning, because of allowing harvesting of timber
    and biomass products. And it is critical to protecting these.
        So, if we can't work together to get this done and protect
    our national treasures, these 2,000 to 3,000-year-old giant
    sequoias, then what can we get done?
        And by the way, we can do this.
        I give this legislation our full support for Tulare County,
    and I encourage this Committee to get it passed and get it
    operative as soon as you can.
        Thank you again for the opportunity to speak to you today.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Townsend follows:]

    Prepared Statement of Dennis Townsend, Chairman, Tulare County Board of
                                  Supervisors
        Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva and Members of the
    Committee, thank you for inviting me to discuss a topic that is dear to
    me and my community: protecting our nation's Giant Sequoia groves. I am
    Dennis Townsend and I'm here in my capacity as Chair of the Tulare
    County Board of Supervisors. Many of the groves--including those in the
    Giant Sequoia National Monument--are in my supervisorial district. What
    we are discussing is, quite literally, in my ``backyard.'' This is
    truly personal and not a distant or theoretical public policy
    discussion. We are living with the consequences of decades of failed
    federal forest management policies.
        The video which you see highlights the stark contrast between our
    state demonstration forest and our national forest after a wildfire
    burned through the area.
        Tulare County is roughly the size of the state of Connecticut with
    approximately 50% of its land mass owned by the Federal Government. We
    are home to about 60 Giant Sequoia Groves which contain the vast
    majority of the Giant Sequoia trees in the world today. Hundreds of
    thousands of people visit each year to experience them. Historically,
    these Federal lands also produced a vibrant timber industry. This
    coupled with tourism played a key role in Tulare County's economy.
        Giant Sequoias, and their mixed conifer ecosystems, are threatened
    by drought, the related bark beetle infestation, and high-severity
    fire. Over the past decade, devastating wildfires have destroyed Giant
    Sequoia groves, critical habitat, and communities. More than eighty-
    five (85) percent of all Giant Sequoia grove acreage across the Sierra
    Nevada has burned in wildfires between 2015 and 2021, compared to only
    one quarter in the preceding century. Within that eighty-five (85)
    percent burn scar, twenty (20) percent of the world's mature giant
    Sequoias were lost in SQF and Windy fires alone.
        The property and economic losses experienced are significant but,
    losing these national treasures, these Monarch Giant Sequoia trees, far
    exceeds all these losses. These majestic Giants are simply
    irreplaceable in our lifetime.
        High severity fire is caused by the accumulation of fuels coupled
    with severe droughts. High accumulations of fuels are a result of
    overly dense forests the result from the suppression of naturally
    occurring wildfires over the past 130 years, and high tree mortality in
    recent years. While the US Forest Service has commited to change, and
    Congress has provided some tools to facilitate that change, the on-the-
    ground reality remains vastly unchanged. The most recent wildfires
    prove this.
        NEPA and ESA reform are paramount to successfully managing today's
    forests. In 2020 the US Forest Service received a streamlined
    categorical exemption for hazard tree removal but are not utilizing
    this exemption on the SQF and Windy Fire burn scars for fear of
    litigation. Organizations use NEPA and the ESA to litigate projects
    that protect and improve critical ecosystem infrastructure, which is
    counter to the intent of both Acts.
        Much of Tulare County's economic infrastructure supporting forest
    products is shuttered or limited. Tulare County once had three active
    sawmills, but now there is only one with limited capacity. The result
    is scores of log decks waiting to be transported to market. There are
    currently log decks from the 2016 Cedar fire still waiting to be moved
    to market, despite some species becoming unmarketable two years after
    they are harvested.
        Tulare County has experienced detrimental impacts to communities,
    resident's quality of life, economy, and critical environmental
    infrastructure from catastrophic wildfires. Our County has been covered
    in smoke for the past 6 summers due to wildfires that have cost us
    about 20% of the world's mature Giant Sequoias. These will not be
    replaced in our lifetimes and, in fact, cannot be replaced for
    generations. I was personally involved in a round table discussion with
    environmental groups, firefighters, loggers, Forest Service officials,
    residents, hunters, fishermen, wildlife enthusiasts, local, state,
    tribal and federal representatives from both sides of the isle. I was
    amazed that there was total agreement that what we have been doing is
    not working. There is no controversy about this bill's language with
    that group. That is very uncommon today and highlights the need for
    this legislation.
        This type of management can be done. Visit our County's Balch Park
    and its Giant Sequoia stands. Visit Cal-Fire's Mountain Home
    Demonstration State Forest which has several of the largest and oldest
    Giant Sequoia trees in the world. More than 4,500 old-growth Giant
    Sequoias are being protected through active management of the mixed
    conifer forest that surrounds them.
        A full toolbox must be provided to the Forest Service and others to
    achieve active forest management, reduce wildfire risk and create
    healthy ecosystems. Returning prescribed fire to the land, allowing
    mechanical operations where effective and efficient and with proper
    oversight, and utilizing forest products to remove marketable material
    off the land are critical in protecting these Giants.
        If we can't work together to get this done and protect our national
    treasures, these Giant Sequoias, then what can we ever get done? This
    legislation benefits everyone, and no one loses. On behalf of Tulare
    County and our residents, I give this legislation our full support and
    endorsement and urge this Committee to get it passed and operative as
    soon as you possibly can.
        It has been an honor and privilege to address you today. Thank you.

                                     ______

        The Chairman. Thank you, Supervisor Townsend. I now will
    recognize Dr. Joanna Nelson, who is the Director of Science and
    Conservation Planning for the Save the Redwoods League.
        You are recognized for 5 minutes.

       STATEMENT OF JOANNA NELSON, SAVE THE REDWOODS LEAGUE, SAN
                         FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA

        Dr. Nelson. Thank you, Chair Westerman and Ranking Member
    Grijalva, members of the Committee for the opportunity to
    contribute today. I am Dr. Joanna Nelson, Director of Science
    and Conservation Planning for Save the Redwoods League.
        Our non-profit is dedicated to protecting redwoods,
    including the globally unique giant sequoias, the world's
    largest and among the oldest trees, which can survive more than
    3,000 years and provide places of awe, beauty, and delight. The
    League supports efforts to protect giant sequoias from the
    threats of wildfire and climate change, and the Save Our
    Sequoias Act is such an effort. We look forward to working with
    the Committee and the bill's co-sponsors to enact the best
    possible legislation to ensure the future of giant sequoias.
        Today, we are hearing about the challenges of wildfires
    exacerbated by drought, climate change, and practices of fire
    exclusion, which are occurring at a frequency and severity
    that, if allowed to continue at the current rate, could wipe
    out our irreplaceable and magnificent giant sequoia groves. We
    have heard from some of our other panelists about the
    remarkable losses of nearly 20 percent of the largest, oldest
    giant sequoia, not all giant sequoia, but just the largest and
    oldest trees in only 14 months across the 2020 and 2021 fire
    seasons.
        We are short on time in this emergency. We also know what
    to do to meet this emergency. There is substantial evidence
    that active forest management reduces the risk of giant sequoia
    mortality in wildfire. In addition to reporting on the
    scientific literature, as we did in our written testimony, we
    at the League can report on what we have seen on the ground
    that works through some difficult recent years of wildfire. We
    offer four examples.
        In the 2021 KNP Fire in Sequoia and Kings Canyon National
    Park in Giant Forest, wildfire burned into the grove with high
    energy. But once it reached areas that had previous repeated
    prescribed burns, flame lengths decreased and firefighters were
    able to put it out.
        In the same fire in Redwood Mountain Grove, previously
    treated areas had low to moderate severity fire effects. In
    contrast, areas without a history of prescribed fire burned at
    high severity, and that is in a map in our written testimony.
        In the 2021 Windy Fire in Sequoia National Forest, on the
    Trail of 100 Giants, a highly-visited loop in the Long Meadow
    Grove, there was previous treatment with thinning and pile
    burning. Although firefighters were needed in the grove to
    protect individual trees, giant sequoias, the area came through
    fire with low mortality.
        And fourth, in the Mariposa Grove of Yosemite National Park
    in the 2022 Washburn Fire, that wildfire met the perimeter of a
    2017 prescribed burn, and did not carry.
        With promoting solutions we would like to share the top
    three here. As with other crises, we need to go directly to the
    root causes, particularly two in tandem: climate change due to
    the burning of fossil fuels and policies of fire exclusion for
    over a century that have led to overly dense forests.
        I will add that these policies of fire exclusion have
    included prohibiting Indigenous burning and Indigenous
    genocide.
        As a society in the United States and here in California--I
    know we are here in DC, thinking about California--we need to
    redouble our climate action on all fronts and address the
    overly high densities of forests with active management.
        Of our first solution, we must allocate the funding and
    resources needed to conduct fuel reduction treatments based on
    civic, cultural, and ecological goals, prescribed burns, and
    cultural burns led by Indigenous practitioners in our most at-
    risk groves. We need to continue until treatments are completed
    in every grove, and then sustain consistent cycles of fuels
    management to ensure resilience into the future.
        As Chief Moore mentioned, we have started with emergency
    declarations for 23 groves. There are approximately 78 groves,
    so we need to keep going.
        We need more time in the calendar year, where forest
    treatments, pile burning, and broadcast burning is acceptable.
    Right now, we have narrow windows in spring and fall shoulder
    seasons. There are other missing times that are also
    appropriate and safe.
        Third, Federal agencies need an increased ability to
    quickly share resources in the form of skilled people,
    equipment, and materials, not only in response to wildfire
    emergency, but in preventative actions of forest management. We
    need a workforce that is skilled in prescribed fire, as well as
    firefighting centered on equity.
        In conclusion, we need the full weight of our conservation
    communities and our lawmakers to coalesce and prioritize the
    protection and management of the sequoia groves. Thank you very
    much.

        [The prepared statement of Dr. Nelson follows:]
      Prepared Statement of Joanna Nelson, Ph.D., Save the Redwoods League
        I'm Dr. Joanna Nelson, director of science and conservation
    planning for Save the Redwoods League. Our non-profit is dedicated to
    protecting redwoods, including the globally unique giant sequoias--the
    world's largest and among the oldest trees, which can:

         Grow to be more than 100 feet in circumference at the
                base;

         Reach heights taller than 300 feet; and

         Survive more than 3,000 years, as well as providing places
                of awe, beauty, and delight.

        The League supports efforts to protect giant sequoias from the
    threats of wildfire and climate change, and the Save Our Sequoias Act
    is such an effort--we look forward to working with the Committee and
    the bill's co-sponsors to enact the best possible legislation to ensure
    the future of giant sequoias. This is the basis of my testimony today.
        Save the Redwoods League was founded in 1918 with a mission to
    protect, restore, and connect people with California's iconic ``big
    trees,'' the coast redwoods (Sequoia sempervirens) and giant sequoias
    (Sequoiadendron giganteum (Lindl.) J. Buchholz). We protect each of
    these related species throughout their entire range. At the time of our
    organization's founding, the major threat to these ancient giants was
    logging. Today, wildfires--exacerbated by drought, climate change, and
    practices of fire exclusion--are occurring at a frequency and severity
    that, if allowed to continue at the current rate, could wipe out our
    irreplaceable and magnificent giant sequoia groves.
        Although giant sequoias evolved with low- to moderate-intensity
    fire, and in fact need fire to reproduce, today's wildfires are killing
    large, mature trees, which is largely unprecedented. In the past six
    years, since the 2015 Rough Fire, we have lost about 20% of the large,
    mature giant sequoia on the planet (1). We see the 2015 Rough Fire as a
    marker of an exponential uptick in wildfire area, intensity, and
    severity. And I'll emphasize that nearly all of that loss (20%) of the
    largest, oldest trees occurred in only 14 months across the 2020 and
    2021 fire events.

        We are short on time in this emergency.
    We know what to do to meet this emergency.

        There is substantial evidence that forest management--silvicultural
    and ecological prescriptions to implement restoration thinning, pile
    burning--especially that which culminates in prescribed burning,
    reduces the risk of conifer mortality in wildfire in the seasonally dry
    forests of California and the Sierra Nevada region (2,3). The
    seasonally dry forests of the Sierra Nevada include the mixed-conifer
    forests in which we find giant sequoias.
        Low-severity fire, moving through the understory and clearing out
    duff and fallen branches--without moving up into the forest canopy and
    killing sequoias--tends to lead to the next low-severity fire, where
    that wildfire has less fuel to burn. In contrast, high-severity fire
    tends to lead to the next high-severity fire based on forest condition
    (dead standing or dead-and-fallen trees and heavy shrub growth). High-
    severity fire can exacerbate the impacts of climate change on
    California conifer forests (4). In other words, these unprecedented
    fires will come again and again . . . and our immediate forest-
    management actions matter for irreplaceable, giant sequoia survival.

    Dr. Scott Stephens and collaborators, in a 2020 study of forests of the
    western US, state:

            ``We argue that fire-use treatments (including prescribed fires
            and managed wildfires) as well as restoration thinning
            strategies, rather than conflicting with existing environmental
            objectives, will provide numerous co-benefits, including
            enhanced biodiversity, increased water availability, greater
            long-term and more sustainable carbon storage, improved forest
            resilience and adaptation to climate change, and reduced air
            pollution.'' (5)

        In addition to reporting on the scientific literature, we, at the
    League, can report on what we've seen on the ground that works--through
    some difficult, recent years of wildfire. We offer four examples:

      1.  2021 KNP fire in Giant Forest, Sequoia and Kings Canyon National
                Park (SEKI)--wildfire burned into the grove with high
                energy, but once it reached areas that had previous,
                repeated, prescribed burns, flame lengths decreased and
                fire fighters were able to put it out (personal
                communication with the National Park Service).

      2.  2021 KNP fire in Redwood Mountain grove (SEKI)--previously
                treated areas had low- to moderate-severity fire effects
                (pers comm). Unburned areas burned at high severity (see
                Figure 1).

      3.  2021 Windy Fire--Trail of a hundred giants (Long Meadow grove,
                Sequoia National Forest, USFS)--this highly visited trail
                loop, in the Long Meadow grove, had been previously
                treated. Although fire fighters were needed in the grove to
                protect individual trees, the area came through the fire
                with low mortality (personal observation, J. Nelson).

      4.  In the Mariposa grove of Yosemite National Park, the Washburn
                fire met the perimeter of a 2017 prescribed burn and did
                not carry. Yosemite scientists wrote, ``Fuels reduction and
                prescribed fire have been at the core of Yosemite's fire
                management program since the 1970s and much of this
                activity has been concentrated in the two areas where
                firefighting operations were most successful [in the
                Washburn]'' (https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-
                2520979/v1; and also see https://
                www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/the-key-to-
                protecting-yosemites-sequoias-from-wildfires-more-fire)

    [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        .epsFigure 1: Redwood Mountain Grove in Sequoia Kings Canyon
    National Park, California. Results of the 2021 KNP fire. The right
    panel shows fire severity, where high-severity is red. The left panel
    shows the location of prescribed burns in the grove, including some
    that are reburns (repeated prescribed fire). Where there were
    prescribed-fire footprints, the wildfire burned with moderate and low
    severity. Where there were none are the two notable patches of high-
    severity fire.

        We know what to do to meet this emergency. However, I'll start with
    a vision of no-action before I move to solutions.
    What can we expect in the future if we don't take action?

        a)  We can expect more mass-mortality events for ancient trees,
    until we have very small, isolated, populations of giant sequoia or
    arboretum specimens--at that point we are looking at risk of extinction
    in the wild, in the native range of giant sequoias. That is, of course,
    the ultimate threat: extinction.

        b)  We can expect to keep living in this ``hot, new world'' of
    climate change that we have created, which holds increasing wildfire
    area and severity. We could expect pulses of big-fire years in
    clusters, or simply repeated and consistent big-fire years--either of
    which are devastating. According to the Intergovernmental Panel on
    Climate Change (IPCC), for every one degree Celsius of global average
    warming, we can expect a two-to-four-fold increase in wildfires in the
    US West (6). Because the world has already initiated 1+C of warming,
    and rising, we are living in that at-least doubled fire-world in the US
    West. Given the difference between climate and weather--where weather
    consists of short-term events and climate is a regional or global
    average--our snowy, rainy, and severe weather of this past winter does
    not counteract the trends of hotter and dryer lands, air, and ocean,
    all of which detrimentally impact giant sequoias.

        c)  In fire events that now kill mature trees, including their
    cones and seeds, we will continue to lose seed sources, severely
    curtailing natural regeneration and therefore growth and existence of
    the sequoia ecosystem. Genetic diversity, which has helped the sequoia
    population adapt and thrive for millions of years, will also be
    reduced, threatening sequoia adaptation and therefore existence.

        d)  As an additional fire effect, we could expect ``type
    conversion,'' for example from sequoia forest to shrubs. Type
    conversion means ecosystem conversion--not through an ecological
    dynamic such as successional stages, where, for example, post-fire we
    see regrowth of herbaceous plants, grasses, then shrubs, then seedling
    trees become saplings and take over the canopy--but full conversion to
    other plant communities and corresponding loss of sequoia groves. There
    is a ``vicious cycle,'' called a positive feedback loop, in which
    carbon losses (large, mature trees burning up in fire) continue to
    accelerate global, average temperature increase and beget more carbon
    losses in increasing wildfire. Anything we can do to interrupt these
    harsh breaks in conditions, and tipping points, we must do, to protect
    gradual change and the ability of ecosystems and ecosystem-function to
    adapt (7).
    Save the Redwoods League works with our membership and partners to
            motivate and enact solutions.

        The League serves as a collaborator and affiliate partner within
    the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition, a formal coalition of federal,
    state, Tribal, county and other members who all steward giant-sequoia
    lands. Every government member is dedicated and active, and still by
    law constrained to their own jurisdiction--one function of the
    Coalition is to see what we can do more effectively together. The
    League plays a unique role in the Coalition, able focus on the species
    across the whole range regardless of ownership. In that key role, we
    provide rangewide evaluation (8) and advocacy for giant sequoia. As the
    League, and a Coalition collaborator, we have conducted extensive media
    outreach and science-based storytelling, resulting in hundreds of
    front-page news stories from local outlets to the New York Times and
    the Washington Post.
        The League currently owns and stewards two properties in giant-
    sequoia ecosystems where we conduct post-fire assessment, active land
    stewardship, post-fire restoration, and demonstrations of forest
    treatment. We participate in operational, ecological thinning and
    prescribed fire; we are continuing training to be resource advisors in
    sequoia groves during wildfire. The League has a history of acquiring
    properties in the Sierra Nevada for conservation and transferring them
    to public ownership, having contributed significantly to the current
    state of 98-99% of giant sequoia that are protected in Tribal or public
    lands.
        The League funds modest grants for academic research directly
    applicable to conservation action in giant sequoias: for example, on
    post-wildfire impacts, best restoration and re-planting practices, the
    impacts of Western Cedar Bark Beetles (Phloeosinus spp.), and
    interacting impacts, such as wildfire, beetle attack, and drought in
    combination.
        As a non-profit organization, we have the ability to act in nimble
    ways, and to participate in opportunities not always open to our
    federal and state partners, such as supporting conservation
    legislation.
    What are the solutions?

        As with other crises, we need to go directly to the root causes,
    particularly two in tandem: global warming due to the burning of fossil
    fuels, and policies of fire exclusion for over a century that have led
    to overly dense forests. As a society in the United States, and here in
    California, we need to redouble our climate action on all fronts and
    address the overly high densities of forests with active management.
        Studies suggest we have a current window of time to take concerted
    action in forest management (9). Climate disruption and lack of forest
    management cause sequoia mortality. While climate change is a global
    problem requiring meta-solutions, specific local actions can reduce its
    impact on the giant sequoias and preserve a future for these great
    trees while we work for progress on the larger crisis.

        The League has multiple solutions in our written statement, and I'd
    like to share the top three here:

      1.  We must allocate the funding and resources needed to conduct fuel
                reduction treatments based on silvicultural and ecological
                goals, prescribed burns, and cultural burns led by
                Indigenous practitioners, in our most at-risk groves. We
                need to continue until treatments are completed in every
                grove--and then sustain consistent cycles of fire
                management to ensure resilience into the future. Although
                fuel reduction plans will be site specific and ecologically
                based, we have generalizable needs for taking action to
                promote fire-resilient states in groves.

              a.  These low-intensity, controlled burns mimic the natural
            cycle of fire in the American West. On average, the sequoia
            ecosystem experienced fire approximately every 3-15 years
            (depending on the scale, e.g., a small area or a whole grove)
            (10). The practice of prescribed burning is unequivocally
            supported by both current Western science and the traditional
            cultural knowledge and science that Indigenous peoples have
            practiced for millennia, and continue to practice today.

      2.  We need more time in the calendar year where forest treatments,
                pile burning, and broadcast burning is acceptable. From
                high moisture resulting from winter snow melt, to important
                species' nesting and habitat protection in the spring, to
                summer fire season, there is precious little time in the
                year to do the work--narrow windows in spring and fall
                ``shoulder seasons.'' Currently established windows with
                acceptable weather, humidity, and air-quality are narrow,
                and are missing times that are also appropriate. As one
                example, approvals for active management could be based on
                spot-weather reports, rather than CAL FIRE declaring, ``All
                of California is under a red-flag warning.'' We respect CAL
                FIRE's authority and expertise; we hear CAL FIRE leadership
                wanting to do more prescribed burning from here on out; we
                also see opportunities for differing regions or micro-
                climates at specific times. We must begin now and work
                collaboratively on an ongoing basis before this year's
                wildfires and next claim more of the giant-sequoia
                ecosystem.

      3.  Federal agencies need an increased ability to quickly share
                resources in the form of skilled people, equipment, and
                materials--not only in response to wildfire emergency, but
                in preventative actions of forest management. As one
                example, extending the ``Good Neighbor'' authority to the
                National Park Service--an option now held by the USFS but
                not the Park--could be useful. Our federal partners will
                know more about what is most useful to them.

      4.  We need a streamlined permitting process for the Endangered
                Species Act (ESA) and the National Historic Preservation
                Act (NHPA), while upholding species protection and
                cultural-resource protection. Some examples might include
                the ability to bundle biological assessments across broader
                regions and streamlined response to Section 106 of the
                NHPA. The White House administration has approved the US
                Forest Service and National Park Service's ``Emergency
                Declaration'' for 12 groves and 11 groves respectively. All
                groves need treatment as soon as possible, with a method
                for prioritizing which come first (these 23 groves come
                first, and the rest of the approximately 78 groves also
                need stewardship and treatment).

      5.  We need a paid, on-call, skilled workforce for active management
                and prescribed fire. The League recommends engaging with
                Jeremy Bailey, North American director of the Prescribed
                Fire Training Program (TREX), Calaveras Healthy Impact
                Product Solutions (CHIPS) which collaborates with local
                Native Nations, the Sierra-Sequoia Burn Cooperative, the
                Indigenous People's Burning Network, and the Tule River
                Tribe. All of these individuals and entities have much to
                contribute to a workforce discussion, centered on equity,
                based on their significant on-the-ground experience.

      6.  Our society needs to recognize and support the wisdom and skill
                of Indigenous communities and nations in forest stewardship
                and cultural burning. We need their stewardship, active on
                the land, with fewer barriers to access. We need more
                clarity, advised by Indigenous people, on what equitable
                ``co-management'' of lands, air, and water means, with
                clear roles and responsibilities.

        In conclusion, we need the full weight of our conservation
    communities and our lawmakers to coalesce and prioritize the protection
    and management of the sequoia groves. We are demonstrating our
    connections and consensus in the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition, and we
    see you here to take action with your authority and expertise as law-
    makers. Thank you very much.
    Footnotes

    (1) a) Mature, sequoia mortality estimates drawn from field sampling
    from the Rough Fire (2015), Pier Fire (2017), and Railroad Fire (2017)
    = approximately one percent. Reference: Shive, K. et al. 2022. Ancient
    trees and modern wildfires: declining resilience to wildfire in the
    highly fire-adapted giant sequoia. Forest Ecology and Management 511:
    120110.

    https://doi.org/10.1016/j.foreco.2022.120110

    b) Mortality estimates from Castle Fire (2020): 10-14% of all large,
    mature giant sequoia. Reference: Stephenson, N. and Brigham, C. 2020.
    ``Preliminary estimates of sequoia mortality in the 2020 Castle Fire.''
    National Park Service.

    c) Mortality estimates from KNP Complex and Windy Fire (both 2021): 3-
    5% of all giant sequoia. Reference: Shive, K., Brigham, C., Caprio, T.,
    Hardwick, P. 2021. 2021 Fire season impacts to giant sequoias.
    Executive Summary. National Park Service.

    A sum of those estimates means a range of 14-20% of mature, giant
    sequoias on the planet were killed in wildfire, 2015 to the present.

    (2) Davis, K.T., Robles, M.D., Kemp, K.B., et al., 2023. Reduced fire
    severity offers near-term buffer to climate-driven declines in conifer
    resilience across the western United States. Proceedings of the
    National Academy of Sciences, 120(11), p.e2208120120.

    (3) Stephens, S.L., Westerling, A.L., Hurteau, M.D., et al., 2020. Fire
    and climate change: conserving seasonally dry forests is still
    possible. Frontiers in Ecology and the Environment, 18(6), pp.354-360.

    (4) Davis et al. 2023 PNAS, ibid.

    (5) Stephens et al. 2020 FREE, ibid., p. 354

    (6) Among multiple IPCC reports, one pertinent reference is: IPCC,
    2018: Global warming of 1.5+C. An IPCC Special Report on the impacts of
    global warming of 1.5+C above pre-industrial levels and related global
    greenhouse gas emission pathways, in the context of strengthening the
    global response to the threat of climate change, sustainable
    development, and efforts to eradicate poverty [V. Masson-Delmotte, P.
    Zhai, H.O. Portner, D. Roberts, J. Skea, P.R. Shukla, A. Pirani, W.
    Moufouma-Okia, C. Pean, R. Pidcock, S. Connors, J.B.R. Matthews, Y.
    Chen, X. Zhou, M.I. Gomis, E. Lonnoy, T. Maycock, M. Tignor, T.
    Waterfield (eds.)].

    (7) Millar, C., Stephenson N., and Stephens. 2007. Climate change and
    forests of the future: managing in the face of uncertainty. Ecological
    Applications (17)8: 2141-2151. https://doi.org/10.1890/06-1715.1

    (8) Burns, E., Campbell, R., Cowan, P. 2018. ``State of Redwoods
    Conservation Report: a tale of two forests.'' Save the Redwoods League,
    San Francisco, California. In addition, the League produced a snapshot
    update of the current state of the giant sequoia with recommendations
    for 2022-2023 actions (https://www.savetheredwoods.org/wp-content/
    uploads/files/SAVE-THE-GIANT-SEQUOIAS-Emergency-Actions-for-
    2022%E2%80%9323.pdf).

    (9) Davis et al. 2023 PNAS, ibid.

    (10) Multiple studies by Tom Swetnam, including: Swetnam, T.W., Baisan,
    C.H., Caprio, A.C. et al. Multi-Millennial Fire History of the Giant
    Forest, Sequoia National Park, California, USA. fire ecol 5, 120-150
    (2009). https://doi.org/10.4996/fireecology.0503120

                                     ______

        The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Nelson. I now recognize Mr.
    Neal Desai, who is the Senior Program Director for the Pacific
    Region of National Parks Conservation Association.
        Mr. Desai, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

         STATEMENT OF NEAL DESAI, NATIONAL PARKS CONSERVATION
                      ASSOCIATION, WASHINGTON, DC

        Mr. Desai. Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and
    members of the Committee, thank you so much for inviting me to
    testify on this legislation. I am Neal Desai, Senior Program
    Director with the National Parks Conservation Association's
    Pacific Region, or NPCA.
        Founded in 1919, NPCA is a leading national independent
    voice for protecting and enhancing America's National Park
    System for present and future generations. We appreciate the
    opportunity to testify on this critically important issue
    within our National Park System: ensuring the survival of our
    majestic giant sequoia trees and their habitat on the west
    slopes of the Sierra Nevada. We are pleased that Congress is
    looking at how to address this challenge.
        Americans hold so much pride for our national parks, and
    are concerned when we are faced with losing iconic species. A
    total of 5.4 million visitors from across the country and world
    flocked to Yosemite, Sequoia, and Kings Canyon last year, home
    to these audacious, humongous trees that stand the test of
    time. In 1890, Congress had the forethought to designate these
    places as national parks in part of protecting these amazing
    natural wonders. Now, in bipartisan fashion, this Congress is
    looking at how to continue the legacy of protecting these
    trees.
        This discussion is also a continuation of something already
    started 7 years ago: funding efforts to protect giant sequoias.
    In 2016, Congress passed the National Park Service Centennial
    Act to fund signature projects coupled with philanthropic
    matching funds. Restoration of the Mariposa Grove at Yosemite
    was one of the first Centennial Challenge projects undertaken.
        To better protect the root system which captures
    groundwater that allows the trees to survive the long, hot
    summers of Yosemite, roads and parking lots were removed to
    restore the natural flow of groundwater. More suitable trails
    and bathrooms were also added to the project. NPCA has worked
    with Congress to establish the Centennial Challenge Fund, and
    continues to lobby to maintain the annual appropriations for
    it. We are grateful for this continued investment, and believe
    the restoration of the Mariposa Grove is a fantastic example of
    putting this important funding to work.
        But as we all know, there is much more work to be done to
    protect these species. The National Park Service is working
    hard to address these threats with active fuel reduction
    treatments and plans for reforestation. For example, in
    Yosemite, the National Park Service has started active
    treatment of the Merced and Tuolumne giant sequoia groves in
    2021, and is continuing this important work that includes
    biomass removal and thinning of trees. The National Park
    Service also plans to implement fuel reduction and forest
    restoration work in the Mariposa Grove this year.
        In Sequoia Kings Canyon, the National Park Service has
    developed a Fiscal Year 2023 to 2025 3-year Sequoia Protection
    Action Plan for fuels treatments for 11 groves that have not
    burned in recent years and have unhealthy accumulations of
    living and dead forest fuels. This work is underway, and is
    planned to be completed by Fiscal Year 2025.
        The Sequoia Protection Action Plan defers treatments on
    three small at-risk groves, which constitute just 5 percent of
    sequoia groves in the parks in order to complete a fire
    management plan that can determine the best way to treat these
    small groves in remote, extreme terrain. The Sequoia Protection
    Action Plan notes that the remaining 23 groves in the parks are
    within a natural burn cycle, and not currently in need of fuels
    reduction treatment.
        Additionally, the National Park Service is proposing to
    replant giant sequoia and other mixed conifer seedlings in up
    to six giant sequoia groves. We applaud the agencies for
    conducting this critical work. They are employing the very
    strategies listed in this bill.
        However, this work can only continue if the National Park
    Service and agencies, including the U.S. Forest Service, have
    the resources, specifically funding and staffing, to implement
    their plans. We are grateful that Congress has passed critical
    legislation such as the Bipartisan Infrastructure Act and the
    Inflation Reduction Act that provided the agencies with funding
    that can be used toward conducting this exact sequoia
    restoration work.
        The work of the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition highlights
    that, if funding and staffing is provided, impressive results
    can be achieved. For example, in 2022, the Coalition treated
    more than double the acres originally targeted. The cost of
    this work was $10.5 million, and involved 824 personnel. We
    believe that this is the type of work that Congress and the
    Administration should continue to fund and at an increased
    scale.
        We look forward to working with the sponsors and the
    Committee to come up with the best solution that meets the
    goals that everyone here has outlined.
        Thank you for inviting me to testify. I look forward to
    answering your questions.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Desai follows:]

      Prepared Statement of Neal Desai, Senior Program Director, Pacific
            Regional Office, National Parks Conservation Association
        Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and Members of the
    Natural Resources Committee, thank you for inviting me to testify on
    H.R. 2989, the Save Our Sequoias Act. I am Neal Desai, Senior Program
    Director in the Pacific Region for the National Parks Conservation
    Association (NPCA). Founded in 1919, NPCA is the leading national,
    independent voice for protecting and enhancing America's National Park
    System for present and future generations. We appreciate the
    opportunity to testify today on a critically important issue within the
    National Park System--ensuring the survival of majestic giant sequoia
    trees and their habitat on the west slopes of the Sierra Nevada.
        We are pleased Congress is looking at how to address this
    challenge--Americans hold so much pride for our national parks and are
    concerned when we are faced with losing iconic species. 5.4 million
    visitors from across the country and world flocked to Yosemite, Sequoia
    and Kings Canyon last year, home to these audacious, humongous trees
    that stand the test of time.
        Sequoia, Kings Canyon and Yosemite National Parks have over 40
    giant sequoia groves. Even though Yosemite has fewer groves, it's known
    for some of the most famous, including the Grizzly Giant, one of oldest
    known giant sequoia trees on federal lands at 3,000 years old. Sequoia
    National Park has the highest density of trees within the park system,
    which includes the largest tree known as General Sherman, which is 275
    ft tall and 36 feet around at its base.
        In 1890, Congress had the forethought to designate these places as
    national parks in part to protect these amazing natural wonders. Now,
    in bipartisan fashion, this Congress is looking at how to continue the
    legacy of protecting these trees.
        This discussion is also a continuation of something already started
    seven years ago: funding efforts to protect giant sequoias. In 2016,
    Congress passed the National Park Service Centennial Act to fund
    signature projects coupled with philanthropic matching funds.
    Restoration of the Mariposa Grove at Yosemite was one of the first
    Centennial Challenge projects undertaken. The Park Service has noted,
    ``Sequoias have a relatively shallow but extensive root system,
    reaching to over a hundred feet in all directions from their base.
    These roots capture the groundwater which allows the trees to survive
    the long, hot summers of Yosemite; a healthy root structure is
    essential to ensure their longevity.'' To better protect the root
    system, roads and parking lots were removed to restore the natural flow
    of groundwater. More suitable trails and bathrooms were also added as
    part of the project. NPCA worked with Congress to establish the
    Centennial Challenge Fund and continues to lobby to maintain the annual
    appropriations for it. We are grateful for this continued investment
    and believe the restoration of the Mariposa Grove is a fantastic
    example of putting this important funding to work.

        As we all know, there is more work to be done to protect this
    species.

        While giant sequoias are resilient trees known to be fire-resistant
    due to their fibrous bark, warmer weather and longer, more intense
    drought is having a profound effect on these trees. As the Park Service
    has stated: ``Prior to 2014, scientists recorded only subtle, long-term
    changes in forest health.
        During and after the drought, they observed large, abrupt, and
    novel changes to forests, including in numerous giant sequoia groves.
    These included: unprecedented numbers of large sequoias dying in severe
    wildfires, giant sequoias dying from bark beetle attacks, and acute
    foliage dieback as a short-term adaptation to drought.'' There is no
    doubt the earth is warming and as a consequence drought, invasive
    species and wildfires have become threats to the survival of giant
    sequoias.
        Hotter summers, shorter winters, longer droughts and more intense
    storms are changing our parks. In 2018 researchers at the University of
    California Berkley and the University of Wisconsin looked specifically
    at the effects of climate change on national parks. ``In this study,
    the team used these maps to calculate historical temperature and
    rainfall trends within the parks and over the U.S. as a whole. They
    found that the temperature in national parks increased by a little over
    1 degree Celsius from 1895 to 2010, roughly double the warming
    experienced by the rest of the country. Yearly rainfall totals
    decreased over 12 percent of national park land, compared to 3 percent
    of land in the United States.'' (https://news.berkeley.edu/2018/09/24/
    national-parks-bear-the-brunt-of-climate-change/). The impacts of these
    threats are creating unavoidable changes to parks across the country.
    Higher temperatures are melting glaciers in Glacier National Park.
    Extreme drought along the Colorado River is shrinking water at Lake
    Mead and the Grand Canyon. Heavier, unpredictable rains led to extreme
    flooding at Yellowstone. The same threats face the giant sequoias.

        The National Park Service is working hard to address these threats
    with active fuel reduction treatments and plans for reforestation.
        For example, in Yosemite, the National Park Service started active
    treatment of the Merced and Tuolumne giant sequoia groves in 2021 and
    is continuing this important work that includes biomass removal and
    thinning of trees. The National Park Service also plans to implement
    fuels reduction and forest restoration work in the Mariposa Grove this
    year. In Sequoia and Kings Canyon, the National Park Service has
    developed a FY23-25 three-year Sequoia Protection Action Plan for fuels
    treatments for 11 groves that have not burned in recent years and have
    unhealthy accumulations of living and dead forest fuels. This work is
    underway and is planned to be completed by FY25. The Sequoia Protection
    Action Plan defers treatment on three small at-risk groves, which
    constitute just 5% of sequoia groves in the parks, in order to complete
    a Fire Management Plan that can determine the best way to treat these
    three small groves in remote, extreme terrain. The Sequoia Protection
    Action Plan notes that the remaining 23 sequoia groves in the parks are
    within a natural burn cycle and not currently in need of fuels
    reduction treatment. Additionally, the National Park Service is
    proposing to replant giant sequoia and other mixed conifer seedlings in
    up to six giant sequoia groves, since these areas burned at such high
    and unprecedented severity that natural regeneration is unlikely to
    occur. We applaud the agencies for conducting this critical work--they
    are employing the very strategies listed in this bill.
        However, this work can only occur if the National Park Service, and
    agencies including the US Forest Service, have the resources,
    specifically funding and staffing, to implement their plans. We are
    grateful that Congress has passed critical legislation, such as the
    Bipartisan Infrastructure Law and Inflation Reduction Act, that
    provided the agencies with funding that can be used toward conducting
    the sequoia grove restoration work.
        The work of the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition highlights that if
    agencies are provided with funding and staffing, impressive results can
    be achieved. For example, in 2022, the Coalition treated more than
    double the acres originally targeted. The cost of this work was $10.5
    million and involved 824 personnel.
        We believe this is the type of work that Congress and the
    administration should continue to fund and at an increased scale.

        Thank you for inviting me to testify. I look forward to answering
    your questions.

                                     ______

        The Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Desai. And finally, I would
    now like to recognize the Honorable Shine Nieto, Vice Chairman
    of the Tule River Indian Tribe of California.
        Vice Chairman Nieto, you are recognized for 5 minutes.

     STATEMENT OF THE HON. SHINE NIETO, VICE CHAIRMAN, TULE RIVER
          INDIAN TRIBE OF CALIFORNIA, PORTERVILLE, CALIFORNIA

        Mr. Nieto. Thank you, sir.
        [Speaking Native language.] Hello and good morning. On
    behalf of the Tule River Tribe, I applaud Speaker Kevin
    McCarthy, Representative Scott Peters, and Chairman Bruce
    Westerman for working across party lines with all stakeholders,
    including the Tule River Tribe, to ensure that there are
    greater protections of the sacred giant sequoia groves. Thank
    you, Chairman Westerman, for holding this hearing, and
    Committee members for attending, and the Committee and
    legislative staff for your hard work.
        I am Shine Nieto, Vice Chairman of the Tule River Tribal
    Council, the governing body of Tule River Tribe. Our people are
    descendants of the Yokuts Indians who occupied the San Joaquin
    Valley and California for thousands of years prior to contact
    with any settlers. The current Tule River Reservation is
    located between Bakersfield and Fresno, just east of
    Porterville and the Sierra Nevada foothills, and covers
    approximately 58,000 acres. The reservation is home to five
    groves of the giant sequoias, and 1,500 individual trees,
    monarch trees. The Tribe currently has 1,952 enrolled tribal
    members.
        In September 2021, the Windy Fire was ignited by lightning
    on a reservation. The fire spread quickly, especially in areas
    where there was little or no previous prescribed, preventative
    work, known as the hazardous fuel reduction. To minimize fire
    severity, we took on an all-hands-on-deck approach to help
    fight the fire alongside our neighbors and partners. With the
    weather conditions changing constantly, we faced our worst
    nightmare: the fire spread throughout several sequoia groves
    and beyond. When the Windy Fire was finally contained, we
    assessed the damage. We knew that, without the preventative
    work, we would have lost much more.
        H.R. 2989, introduced last week, the Save Our Sequoias Act,
    is a long-overdue effort to empower experts and stewards to
    employ critical efforts to combat the very real threat of the
    fires that plague the California giant sequoia groves. We
    recognize that there are currently few long-term drought
    solutions in place to protect our forests and lands, so we must
    work together to save our sequoias.
        The Tule River Tribe is proud to support passage of the
    Save Our Sequoias Act. We are genuinely committed to contribute
    our traditional ecological knowledge of the forest management
    practices that have kept the giant sequoias true national
    treasures in our presence for thousands of years. Our
    traditional ecological knowledge is science, and we appreciate
    that the legislation not only acknowledges this, but requires
    it. The holder of this knowledge is the Tule River Tribe.
        A key aspect of our traditional forest management embraces
    the need for long-term conditional caretaking of the giant
    sequoia groves. The emergency corrective actions that have been
    taken since the recent fires have been helpful, but are short-
    term band-aids. Once H.R. 2989 is enacted into law, long-term
    management approaches will be allowed to flourish.
        The Tribe is proud to note that we are working hard on a
    further contribution to protect the sequoias. After 50 years of
    negotiations, we are on the cusp of reaching a settlement of
    our Indian water rights with the United States. We hope to have
    legislation signed into law that will allow us to construct the
    best permanent drought solution for the South Tule River. This
    settlement will fund a reservoir that will supply a consistent
    water supply throughout the year for the Tule River Reservation
    and downstream users. Better managed water resources are
    crucial to contain high-severity wildfires. The combined effort
    of the tribes, water rights settlement legislation, and the
    Save Our Sequoias Act will ensure the well-being of the giant
    sequoias for generations to come.
        We continue to assist and recover from the Windy Fire, and
    have learned much from it. We have been reminded that we need
    to collaborate to reduce the fires. We need to share our
    knowledge and our resources. We need to respect and employ
    traditional ecological knowledge. We need to do this together
    as co-stewards. We need to do this now. For this reason, we
    urge the Congress to move forward with this legislation.
        Thank you for this opportunity to provide comments in
    support of the Save Our Sequoias Act, and I look forward to
    your questions on anything that our tribe can help with this
    Act, and to help move forward with saving these trees that mean
    so much to us. On our land, we call them our ancestors, because
    they are the oldest living body on Mother Earth. So, we really
    want to do this with you guys, as a tribe.

        [The prepared statement of Mr. Nieto follows:]

     Prepared Statement of Shine Nieto, Vice-Chairman, Tule River Tribe of
                     the Tule River Reservation, California
        On behalf of the Tule River Tribe, I applaud Speaker Kevin
    McCarthy, Representative Scott Peters, and Chairman Bruce Westerman for
    working diligently across party lines and through all stakeholders,
    including the Tule River Tribe, to ensure that there are greater
    protections of the sacred Giant Sequoia Groves. We are thankful to
    Chairman Westerman for holding this hearing, and to Committee members
    for attending, as well as Committee and legislative staff who worked
    tirelessly to get us where we are today.
        I am Shine Nieto, Vice-Chairman of the Tule River Tribal Council,
    the governing body of the Tule River Tribe. Our People are descendants
    of the Yokuts Indians, a large group of linguistically related people
    who occupied the San Joaquin Valley in California for thousands of
    years prior to contact with non-Indians.
        Following the incorporation of California into the United States,
    several efforts were made, beginning in 1851, to relocate the Tule
    River Indians to a permanent homeland. The current Reservation was
    defined by three Executive Orders issued between 1873 and 1878 and
    today covers approximately 58,000 acres. The Tribe currently has 1,952
    enrolled tribal members.
        On September 9, 2021, the 97,528-acre Windy Fire was ignited by
    lightning on the Tule River Indian Reservation. The fire spread
    quickly--especially in areas where there was little to no previous
    prescribed preventative work known as ``hazardous fuel reduction'' to
    minimize fire severity. We took an ``all hands-on deck'' approach to
    help fight the fire alongside our neighbors and partners. With weather
    conditions changing constantly, we faced our worst nightmare: the fire
    spread throughout several sequoia groves and beyond. When the Windy
    Fire was finally contained and we assessed the damage, we knew that
    without the preventative work, we would have lost much more.
        H.R. 2989 introduced last week--the ``Save Our Sequoias Act'' is a
    long overdue effort to empower resourceful experts and stewards to
    employ critical resiliency efforts to combat the very real threat of
    fire that plagues roughly 70 Sequoia groves as drought conditions
    increase. We recognize that there are currently few long-term drought
    solutions in place in the area to protect our forest and lands--so we
    must work together to save our sequoias. The Tule River Tribe is proud
    to support the passage of the Save the Sequoias Act.
        As part of our advocacy efforts on behalf of this bill, the Tribe
    intends to present a resolution at the Mid-Year Conference of the
    National Congress of American Indians (NCAI) next month to garner
    support from all member tribes across the country. We will provide a
    copy of the resolution to the Committee upon adoption by NCAI.
        We are genuinely committed to contribute our Traditional Ecological
    Knowledge of forest management practices that has kept the Giant
    Sequoias--true national treasures, in our presence for thousands of
    years. Our Traditional Ecological Knowledge is science and we
    appreciate that the legislation not only acknowledges this, but
    requires it. The holders of this knowledge is the Tule River Tribe.
        A key aspect of our traditional forest management embraces the need
    for long-term, continual, caretaking of the Giant Sequoia Groves. The
    emergency corrective actions that have been taken since the recent
    fires have been helpful, but are short-term band aids. Once H.R. 2989
    is enacted into law, long-term management approaches will be allowed to
    flourish.
        The legislation forges a responsive coalition between the Tribe and
    its long-standing partners--federal, state and local land managers to
    bring our very best to the table as we work to advance the resiliency
    of the sequoia groves. The legislation paves the way to formalize a
    clear path forward on how we can combine our strengths to safeguard the
    sequoias.
        The Tribe is proud to note that we are working hard to further
    contribute to protect the Sequoias. After over 50 years of negotiating,
    we are on the cusp of reaching a settlement of our Indian water rights
    with the United States. We hope to have legislation signed into law
    this session that will allow us to select and construct the best
    permanent drought solution for the South Tule River. This settlement
    will fund a reservoir that will supply a consistent water supply
    throughout the year, especially during droughts, to the Tule River
    reservation and downstream users. Better managed water resources are
    crucial to contain high severity wildfires. The combined effect of the
    tribe's water rights settlement legislation and the Save Our Sequoias
    Act will ensure the well-being of the Giant Sequoias for generations to
    come.
        In July 2022, the Tribe hosted over 30 guests including the
    Assistant Secretary of the Interior, Indian Affairs and officials from
    various other federal and state agencies to tour the Tule River Indian
    Reservation and the Headwaters the South Fork of the Tule River located
    in the Sequoia National Monument. The caravan of guests made numerous
    stops and were able to experience a ``boots on the ground'' perspective
    of the gloomy effects of the unforgiving, fire ravaged area. We made
    sure that our guest likewise took time to appreciate the new growth,
    reforestation and recovery from previous fires.
        We stopped to witness our crews hard at work to clean up the downed
    trees, treat the areas and plant over 180,000 new trees to rehabilitate
    damaged areas. Reforestation is no simple task. The burned areas do not
    exactly provide ideal conditions for young vulnerable seedlings. A lot
    of science, care and strategy is needed to ensure that those new trees
    will grow and survive. This work is done in hard-to-reach locations and
    in challenging weather conditions. Our crews include seasoned mentors
    and experts as well as numerous tribal youths from different tribal
    nations that will master these forest management practices and carry
    our Traditional Ecological Knowledge forward as it has been done since
    time immemorial. We know that we need more of this good work to achieve
    our collective goals.
        We were able to show our guests that our traditional forest
    management practices worked. There was a very clear difference between
    those Giant Sequoia groves managed under our traditional practices and
    those that were not. The destruction of the Windy Fire could not reach
    past the lines of our traditional risk reduction treated areas and that
    saved many trees and our Reservation. We are grateful for these gifts
    of knowledge from our ancestors and appreciate that we are in an era
    where these gifts are valued the way that they should be--because we
    all will continue to benefit from them.
        These ancient trees are not easily replaceable. They must be
    protected by all means possible. We continue to assess and recover from
    the Windy Fire and have learned much from it. We have been reminded
    that we need to collaborate to reduce fires. We need to share our
    knowledge and our resources. We need to respect and employ Traditional
    Ecological Knowledge. We need to do this together as co-stewards--and
    we need to do this now.
        For these reasons, we urge the Congress to move this legislation
    forward. Thank you for this opportunity to provide comments in support
    of the Save Our Sequoias Act.

                                     ______

        The Chairman. Thank you, Vice Chairman Nieto. I will now
    recognize Members for questions in the order provided by staff
    on both sides of the dais. We will alternate between the
    Majority and the Minority, and non-Committee members will go
    last. And we can have more than one round of questions, if
    needed.
        I first recognize myself for 5 minutes, and my first
    question is for the whole panel, and you can answer by just
    raising your hands. Raise your hands if you are testifying
    today on behalf of an organization that directly manages giant
    sequoia groves under your jurisdiction.
        Chief Moore, do you not----
        Mr. Moore. Sorry.
        The Chairman. Are you testifying today on behalf of an
    organization that directly manages giant sequoia groves under
    your jurisdiction?
        [Laughter.]
        The Chairman. All right. So, 80 percent of our panelists
    are directly involved on the ground with management of giant
    sequoias.
        Are you testifying today on behalf of an organization that
    is a member or an affiliate partner of the Giant Sequoias Lands
    Coalition?
        Thank you.
        Chief Moore, there is an opposition letter to this bill,
    unbelievably, that says that the Save Our Sequoias Act
    designates a ``broad so-called emergency'' for the giant
    sequoias. Would you agree with the characterization that the
    crisis facing the sequoias is a ``so-called emergency''?
        Mr. Moore. I think the crisis that is facing the giant
    sequoias, Congressman, is a crisis.
        The Chairman. It is an emergency?
        Mr. Moore. It is an emergency.
        The Chairman. Thank you. Chief Moore, yes or no, based on
    your understanding of this bill, does it waive any requirements
    for the Forest Service to comply with environmental laws,
    including NEPA, ESA, and the National Historic Preservation
    Act?
        Mr. Moore. No, Congressman, I think it is in compliance
    with NEPA.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Chief Moore. Last year, the Forest
    Service announced emergency actions under NEPA to reduce
    hazardous fuels in 11 giant sequoia groves. While this was a
    great first step, I don't think anybody in this room should
    think that we can treat less than 10,000 acres in a select
    amount of groves, and then call it a day, and think we have
    solved the problem.
        Do you believe the emergency actions undertaken by the
    Forest Service last year ``severely undercut any bedrock
    environmental laws''?
        Mr. Moore. No, Congressman, I do not.
        The Chairman. Can you tell me what the difference is, if
    any, between the emergency actions the Administration took last
    year versus the emergency authorities provided in this bill?
        Mr. Moore. I think the emergency actions that the agency
    took and the authorities in this bill are very similar in
    nature. I do think that the SOS Act does add process and
    reporting requirements that we would be happy to work with you
    on.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Chief. So, if the administrative
    emergency actions didn't undermine NEPA and the Save our
    Sequoias Act simply codifies these actions, it sounds like, in
    your opinion, it adds a little more reporting to it. Would you
    agree that this bill does not severely undercut any bedrock
    environmental laws?
        Mr. Moore. Yes, to my understanding, it would not.
        The Chairman. Thank you again, Chief. Were you able to
    increase the pace of treatments because you received funding,
    or because you utilized streamlined authorities, or both?
        Mr. Moore. Both, Congressman.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Chief.
        Dr. Nelson, some have suggested that enough work has been
    done to protect giant sequoias. If a fire were to ignite this
    summer in the Sierra Nevada, could we potentially see another
    high mortality giant sequoia event?
        Dr. Nelson. Thank you. If you are in the room with
    scientists and managers, you hear people's fears of ``I am
    worried about the next wildfire.'' Yes. The next wildfire, we
    could see a high mortality event.
        The Chairman. Thank you, Dr. Nelson.
        Vice Chairman Nieto, what would be your response to those
    who suggest that the legislation isn't needed because enough
    work has already happened on the ground?
        Mr. Nieto. I would suggest those people come out to see
    these giant sequoias, and see where they are wrong with what
    they are thinking about them not needing to be protected,
    because without those in our lands, like I said, you are
    missing out on a beautiful sight, first of all.
        And then second of all, they need to be there to protect
    the land that is, the other trees around them, they kind of
    give up themselves to protect those trees. That is why they
    have been there so long.
        So, for someone who doesn't know anything about these
    trees, I think they should come out and get a closer look, and
    they would probably become tree huggers themselves.
        The Chairman. Well, seeing is believing. And Vice Chairman
    Nieto, when we did the field tour, and I got to visit with
    members of the Tule River Tribe, I was impressed by the history
    with the Tribe and the sequoias. And you have discussed how
    your tribe has been managing sequoias not for hundreds of
    years, but for millennia. If we managed our Federal lands like
    the Tribe manages its lands, what do you think the difference
    would be for the health of these giant sequoias?
        Mr. Nieto. I was impressed that when I was a youngster,
    probably about 8 years old, I always went to the mountains with
    my uncle. We went to the redwoods, the Redwood Corral we call
    it, one of our five groves. And that is where we would go to
    get our willows up there, because they are a lot stronger when
    they are more greener in the meadow right there, when they are
    mixed with the redwood. I guess you can say when the redwoods
    hit the meadows and the water from the meadow, it goes into
    those willows and it turns them red. So, they are basically
    redwood willows. And they are a lot stronger than the willows
    down below in the valley.
        And we always had to clean up during the winter time around
    the trees. In the first video, I saw the fire people cleaning
    around the trees. But when we were doing that up there back in
    the day, when I was like 8 years old, we were told that we were
    ruining the food environment for those trees when we were
    actually protecting them from being burned by the fires in the
    summertime, if they happened to come, or even the fires in the
    wintertime when they happen to come.
        We always cleaned out an area around those trees to protect
    them, just like if they were your plant at home. You don't let
    weeds get in the garden if you want your roses to bloom. So,
    that is what we always did. And I was impressed that they are
    finally listening to someone that knows more about the trees
    than themselves.
        The Chairman. That is my point exactly. My time has
    expired. I now recognize the gentleman from California for 5
    minutes, Mr. Huffman.
        Mr. Huffman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for
    this hearing and for your work on this important issue. Thanks
    to the witnesses for their very helpful testimony.
        Mr. Chairman, we agree on a lot of things today. I think we
    all agree that the giant sequoia is an incredible iconic
    resource, and we don't want it to go away on our watch. I think
    we all agree that it is under unique and emergency stressors
    and threats that need to be addressed. We agree that the mega-
    fires we are experiencing in recent years are not natural, are
    not normal, and we agree that 100 years of failed fire
    suppression efforts in our forests is a big part of the
    problem.
        I think the only piece that we might have some nuanced
    disagreements on is I think we need to acknowledge a little
    more directly that the climate crisis is at the heart of this
    conversation and this emergency that we are trying to deal
    with. And as we move forward, hopefully together, to try to
    save the giant sequoia it is important to consider that bigger
    context so that we don't keep doing things that make the
    climate crisis even worse. So, I just wanted to note that.
        The intent of this Act is very laudable, and I especially
    appreciate the efforts in this bill to codify existing work
    that is being done by the National Park Service and the Forest
    Service to respond to this emergency. I think the bill provides
    these agencies with some important tools and with an excellent
    overall framework to respond to this important challenge.
        However, the bill also directs these agencies to stop doing
    something that is actually working quite well, and that is
    moving forward with urgency, with incredible speed, with
    incredible scale in full compliance with all of our
    environmental laws.
        It has been suggested since this bill was first rolled out
    that some of these laws need to give way in order to save the
    giant sequoia. I think if we have learned anything over the
    past year or two, we have learned that the giant sequoia is not
    a poster child for NEPA reform or ESA reform. The giant sequoia
    and the incredible heroic efforts that have been taking place
    to save it are a poster child for how these environmental laws
    actually are a lot more flexible than people acknowledge in
    this Committee most of the time, and maybe a poster child for
    how to use existing environmental laws to do big things very
    quickly on the ground, because that is what we have seen in the
    past year.
        We do not need the carve-outs from NEPA, and the Endangered
    Species Act, and the National Historic Preservation Act that
    are in this bill. And we can debate the nuances of whether they
    violate NEPA and the ESA or whether they just expand existing
    emergency authorities. I am going to ask Chief Moore to expand
    a little bit on some of his concerns, because what may seem
    like nuances to you, Mr. Chairman, I believe are very important
    points of precedent that we need to take seriously.
        Senator Feinstein and Senator Padilla have a bill that does
    not include these provisions, but does include all of the
    important tools to save the sequoias. And I hope that we can
    work together to get to that place where we can move a bill
    forward together that doesn't either intentionally or otherwise
    do harm to our environmental laws. So, I hope you will work
    with us. We have been trying to have that conversation for
    quite some time.
        I saw Chief Moore, in his testimony, invited the
    opportunity to talk about some amendments that would address
    those concerns. We want to do that with you, too, Mr. Chairman.
    We want to get this bill in a place where we can move it
    forward.
        Now, Chief Moore, the scale and the speed of what you and
    your partners have done over the past year or so is just
    remarkable. And the fact that you are on track to get all of
    this work done within the next year, likewise, is remarkable,
    all of it in full compliance with the environmental laws. Is it
    fair to say that you don't need any changes to our
    environmental laws to keep doing this great work?
        Mr. Moore. Congressman, we are going to always embrace what
    Congress gives us. We are looking at this Save Our Sequoias Act
    in particular. And while there are a lot of similarities to
    what we already have in terms of authorities, there are some
    places that we feel adds an additional burden.
        I indicated what those were in my opening comments,
    particularly the reporting requirements that we would be
    interested in working with Congress to share what those
    concerns are, to meet the intent of the bill.
        The other component of it is that it does codify some of
    the work and some of the authorities that we are currently
    using.
        So, we would be happy to work with Congress in any way that
    this Committee, or Congress in general, would like for us to.
        Mr. Huffman. I appreciate that very much.
        And Dr. Nelson, on behalf of Save the Redwoods League, I
    just note that you are also supporting the Feinstein-Padilla
    bill, which does not raise any of these points of disagreement
    over the environmental laws. Correct?
        Dr. Nelson. That is correct as we saw it last year. I don't
    know the current form.
        Mr. Huffman. Very good. Thank you very much.
        I yield back.
        The Chairman. The gentleman yields back. The Chair now
    recognizes the gentleman from California.
        Mr. Duarte, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Duarte. Thank you. Thank all of you for your
    information today. It is very important.
        Mr. Moore, we have seen experience that loss comes from one
    of our most revered natural resources, the giant sequoia tree,
    when there is a lack of management in place. We understand the
    blame and burden does not fall on the shoulders of the Forest
    Service. Like you said, you take what Congress gives you, and
    there is a lot of litigation sometimes involved, and there is a
    lot of bureaucracy involved in doing your jobs.
        Do you feel that initiatives such as this bill, which I am
    a co-sponsor of--I have taken my family to outings at the
    Murphy's Grove of sequoia several times. We live about an hour
    away. And one of my first dates with my wife in 1995,
    Alexandra, was a road trip from Reedley, where she was staying,
    up to the giant sequoias down south there. So, there is quite a
    lot of attachment.
        But other forests are burning also. Other forests are
    burning also. And do you believe that, although this is a great
    step to protect the sequoias, some of these regulation changes
    and resources could be well applied to other forests--may or
    may not be giant sequoias--to protect rural communities, to
    protect habitat, to protect the health of those ecosystems?
        Mr. Moore. If you are asking about this particular bill, it
    doesn't expand beyond, my understanding is, the Giant Sequoia
    National Monument, the three national forests, Sierra, Sequoia,
    and the Tahoe National Forest. It also includes those adjacent
    lands that could have an impact on those areas, should
    something happen like a wildfire.
        Mr. Duarte. Yes. Do you believe that some of these healthy
    forest initiatives to protect the sequoias could help protect
    the safety of rural communities if applied in other forests
    that you oversee?
        Mr. Moore. Yes, absolutely. I believe that we have a lot of
    authorities that we currently have, and some that are being
    proposed that would be very helpful.
        Mr. Duarte. Are you stifled by some of the NEPA and ESA
    regulations from practicing what you would consider to be the
    optimal forest management practices on other lands that you
    govern?
        Mr. Moore. Congressman, what we have focused on
    particularly the last 2 years is really streamlining our
    processes to get more efficient and effective. And if you were
    to ask me what is the result of that so far, I will tell you
    that the efforts that we have undertaken recently we now use in
    about 85 percent of our NEPA documents using categorical
    exclusions, CEs. That is up from about 70 percent just about 10
    years ago.
        And to further break that down, that 85 percent would
    represent about 4,000 categorical exclusions that we perform on
    an annual basis.
        So, we are making a lot of progress by simply streamlining
    the processes, particularly using the tools that Congress----
        Mr. Duarte. So, let me ask--that sounds great, I am glad
    you are making progress on the national forests--the private
    lands in California, Sierra Nevada, are reputed to be more
    sustainably managed through active logging and more commercial
    enterprises in healthier states, having less severe forest
    fires. Similar are some of the recovered Tahoe Basin lands that
    have been more sustainably managed recently. Would you concur
    that private forest lands in general in California are
    healthier when it comes to forest fires, habitat, and
    resilience, than the U.S. Forest Service's, and that maybe you
    are catching up, but that is the mark that you are catching up
    to?
        Mr. Moore. Yes, Congressman. Most people are surprised when
    I tell them what I am about to say, is that most forest fires
    start on private lands, not on national forest-managed lands,
    although those fires on National Forest System lands, because
    of the abundance of vegetation there, and the ladder fuels, it
    creates hazard conditions to everything in its sight.
        Mr. Duarte. I agree. I farm in the Sierra Nevadas, and I
    have had my wine grapes smoked out a number of times over the
    last few years, more so than I ever expected. I have been up
    there for about 20 years. It is definitely getting worse. But
    it is the overgrown nature of the forest that has changed.
    Perhaps global warming, perhaps droughts. But we had droughts
    in the 1970s, we had droughts prior to that, similar warm and
    dry conditions. The catastrophic fires have more to do with
    fuel loads and management practices than they do with the fact
    that fires just start from time to time, whether it is natural
    or human. Is that true?
        Mr. Moore. Yes, and I will give you a good example of that.
    If I was to mimic conditions traditionally in this country,
    particularly in those fire-adapted ecosystems, what you
    normally have is about anywhere between 40 to 60 trees per
    acre. What we have on the landscape now is anywhere of 600-plus
    trees per acre. So, that tells you that we have an abundance of
    vegetation on the landscape that we really need to remove if we
    are going to have a positive effect on how fire behaves as it
    moves across the landscapes.
        Mr. Duarte. Did global warming cause the 600 trees per acre
    versus the 30 or 40 trees per acre, or is that a management
    outcome?
        Mr. Moore. I think it is a combination of things. I think
    that is certainly one of them.
        I think the other thing, too, is that we have----
        Mr. Duarte. Global warming caused the tree density to
    increase?
        Mr. Moore. It is a combination of things. It is not just
    one. It is a combination of things. Global warming certainly
    adds to the complexity of that, but we have also kept fire out
    of fire-adapted ecosystems for over 100 years now. So, those
    ecosystems need fire, and we have kept fire out of those
    ecosystems.
        Mr. Duarte. Is logging an alternative to fire when it comes
    to fuels reduction and sustainable forest management?
        Mr. Moore. I certainly think logging is an option. It is a
    viable option.
        I also say, along those same lines, we need to be looking
    at wood innovations too, because the type of material we have
    now in the landscape is small diameter, low-value material.
    What we have traditionally had in terms of our infrastructure
    is sawlog-type facilities. We need that, but we also need other
    innovations to come into this whole wood industry.
        Mr. Duarte. I am sorry, I am over time, but I am really
    enjoying my conversation with you.
        The Chairman. The gentleman's time has expired, and we can
    do a second round if we agree to that. And I will try to be
    generous if a witness is answering a question when the time
    expires.
        I will now go to the gentlelady from Alaska, Mrs. Peltola,
    who is also a co-sponsor of the bill.
        You are recognized for 5 minutes.
        Mrs. Peltola. Thank you, Chairman Westerman. My question is
    to Vice Chairman Nieto, and I do want to just make the
    observation I think it is interesting that the Federal
    Government has kind of co-opted our term ``Chief,'' and then
    the tribes have co-opted back the term ``Chairman,'' and ``Vice
    Chairman.''
        [Laughter.]
        Mrs. Peltola. So, to Vice Chairman Nieto, I just wanted to
    ask you: the Save Our Sequoias Act, it does facilitate tribal
    stewardship agreements and Good Neighbor Authority and the
    Giant Sequoia Emergency Protection Program and Fund. Despite
    this terrible situation that you are in with the iconic giant
    sequoias, I am pleased to see so much partnership among so many
    different levels. And I just wanted to ask you, Mr. Vice
    Chairman, could you speak about the importance of the iconic
    giant sequoia to the Tule River Tribe, and how your management
    practices helped inform the legislation?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, thank you. We have been doing this for
    years. Like I said, it has been normal practice for us, as
    tribal members. We have tribal members that are more into
    society, and then we have tribal members like myself that are
    more traditional and just want to be human beings, instead of
    Natives. But we have been knowing this practice since we have
    been kids and since we could walk. We always had a rake or even
    a good-sized cedar branch to brush the area away.
        And like I was telling Mr. Speaker and Mr. Westerman, you
    don't leave weeds in your garden. Everybody always pulls the
    weeds from the garden. So, to get something beautiful and to
    keep something beautiful, you have to clean that area. And we
    have been practicing this forever. If you don't clean the area,
    you give it a chance to burn. There is so much that you can do.
        And plus, before, we had a potbelly stove where we had to
    keep warm. So, most of that wood that was laying around that
    wasn't good to the trees, we used that to warm our homes most
    of the time.
        So, it was always to clean the area, to clean the area, to
    clean the area. Because if you have a yard--we have 58,000
    acres of backyard, so we have to keep our area clean, just like
    Hawaii, everybody knows Hawaii is a beautiful place. If people
    don't clean Hawaii, then it is not a beautiful place.
        To us, those redwood trees are our Hawaii. They mean
    everything to us because without them everything is just a
    regular tree. Everything has meaning to us, and those trees are
    actually called our ancestors. They are not called monarchs.
    They are ancestors to us because they are the oldest living
    thing on our reservation, on our lands.
        And we come from Stockton, the mountain range and those
    trees always meant something to our people, and still do to
    this day. So, we are grateful to be here at this table with
    everybody, and we are grateful for Mr. Moore's people that we
    get to talk to, like Theresa Benson and these other people that
    our other members have made friends with them to put us at this
    table today, and also our lobbyists back here. I know we aren't
    supposed to say too much about lobbyists when we are in these
    areas.
        But us Tule River people, we love the people that work for
    us, they become family to us, just like you guys will to us
    when we go home. It is always what you can give, instead of
    what you can take, for us Tule River people. We are trying to
    give our medicine to whoever can use it to save these trees.
    So, that is why we are here today. That is why I am right here
    representing our tribe.
        Mrs. Peltola. Thank you. I really appreciate that. And I do
    appreciate the fact that you are at the table and volunteering
    your time and energy to provide kind of that deep-time
    perspective, the longer time frame, and some of the management
    tools that have been in your toolbox for a long time.
        With that, I yield back my time, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
        The Chairman. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair
    recognizes the gentlelady from American Samoa.
        Mrs. Radewagen, you are recognized for 5 minutes.
        Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Chairman Westerman and Ranking
    Member Grijalva, for holding this hearing today. And thank you
    to Speaker McCarthy and the rest of my colleagues for your
    bipartisan work on this important issue. And thank you to the
    panel for your testimony.
        The sequoias are to the Western United States what the
    coral reefs are to the Pacific. Not only are they incredibly
    important to the local ecology, but they also hold deep
    cultural and traditional significance.
        Vice Chairman Nieto, in your testimony you highlight how
    the Federal Government must work alongside the tribes in
    management and preservation efforts. I would love to hear from
    you about the spiritual significance of the sequoia and more
    about what we can learn from emulating traditional forestry
    practices passed down by Native peoples. You touched on that a
    little bit earlier. Can you please speak a little bit more
    about how this is not just important from a logistical
    standpoint, but also reflective of our obligation to the tribes
    to protect their way of life?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, ma'am. We have a thing we have been
    teaching Mr. Moore's people, it is a cultural burning that we
    also learn at a young age. With the debris that is around these
    trees, you could only pile the wood so high, or the stuff you
    are going to burn that way around these trees, or anywhere,
    actually. We protect pretty much every tree we can because of
    our deer, because of our bears. Our bears are real sacred
    animals to us, and our mountain lions. We are not able to kill
    them, so they also need a place to be.
        And when we burn these debris around these trees or any
    trees to protect our forest, we can only stack them so high
    because, just like the soil, if you burn your pile too high,
    you are going to burn everything that is under the ground and
    it is going to make a black mark on the ground where it is too
    hot.
        We call it cultural burning so people could understand it
    in the European language, in this language we speak today here.
    But if we don't burn at a certain height, then that ground will
    get burned and nothing will ever grow again. So, when you do a
    cultural burning, it is kind of like putting the seeds in the
    oven, and then you are going to get whatever cupcake or cake or
    even your turkey on Thanksgiving to come out good. You always
    have to have a degree with cultural burning.
        So, with that going on, we are trying to teach Mr. Moore's
    people that way, so they can learn how to protect the redwoods
    on their side of the mountain, because we are not savages and
    settlers anymore. We are all trying to be human beings and
    neighbors. And we are able to give up what we know now, instead
    of keeping it to ourselves, so it doesn't look like we are
    trying to hoard everything. But we have been doing this since
    we have been on this Earth. And we are just trying to be
    neighborly now. Before, we didn't want anyone to come borrow
    sugar from us. Now we are giving them all the sugar we can,
    from your land, of course. I still like C&H.
        Mrs. Radewagen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        The Chairman. The gentlelady yields back. The Chair now
    recognizes the gentlelady from California, Ms. Kamlager-Dove.
        You are recognized for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you
    all for attending today. I have a couple of questions, and I
    think my first question will go to Dr. Nelson.
        Is low to moderate severity fire good for giant sequoia
    groves?
        Dr. Nelson. Yes. They evolved with low to moderate severity
    fire from lightning strikes and Indigenous cultural burning
    that clears out the duff. The cones are semi-serotinous, which
    means, in this case, they need heat to open. And that is where
    the seed source comes from. So, then you have seed rain falling
    down and the removal of that duff. The seeds germinate better
    in mineral soil.
        Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Great. Is it also because low to
    moderate severity fire can help reduce the probability of a
    high severity in a subsequent fire?
        Dr. Nelson. That is also correct. Reducing fuels, which has
    many forms, burn piles and prescribed burning are one, but
    reducing fuels in low and moderate severity fire can reduce the
    risk of high severity fire.
        Ms. Kamlager-Dove. Thank you. According to Federal fire
    severity and prescribed fire data, since 1984, over 92 percent
    of the total giant sequoia grove area has burned, and 87
    percent of what has burned since then experienced low to
    moderate severity, or a low severity prescribed fire. Wouldn't
    that mean that most groves have experienced a relatively recent
    fuel reduction, reducing the probability of a high severity
    fire over the next several years?
        Dr. Nelson. So, that is a really good area of open
    questions where we know from remote sensing this is low
    severity or moderate severity, and then we have current
    research proposals. We need to go see what that means, right?
        So, a given, I will say pixel, because that is how our
    remote sensing comes back--a given pixel labeled low severity
    could look very different on the ground than any other labeled
    low severity. And we need to be able to go check to ground
    truth and look at, oh, there are areas that still need
    treatment, that still need forest prescriptions, and then other
    areas where it may be that wildfires, where they have burned at
    low and moderate severity, have done some of that forest
    treatment. It is just that they come along with high severity
    patches that are close to complete mortality, and also seed
    loss.
        Ms. Kamlager-Dove. So, what would you say is the urgency of
    this bill if only a small fraction of the groves haven't
    experienced fire recently, and if high severity fire has been a
    relatively small or containable component, even in recent
    fires?
        Dr. Nelson. There is still plenty of work to do. Other
    panelists and Chairman Westerman have mentioned ladder fuels.
    Again, even though fires have come through, they come through
    in irregular shapes, and come partway into the grove and not
    into the rest. So, it is correct that most of the grove area
    has burned in the last 6 years. There is still urgency to do
    treatment, to make silvicultural prescriptions, and do the work
    to clear out an overload of fuels.
        We have an example from a property that we steward as Save
    the Redwoods League in Alder Creek Grove, where, it is roughly
    a rectangle, a strip across the northern area and southern area
    burned at high severity. We are going to need to do replanting
    of seedlings there, because there is no seed source. In the
    middle, it was untouched by fire, and we are still going to
    need to do thinning. We have the extremes. We have mass
    mortality or nothing. And that middle area still needs
    treatment.
        Ms. Kamlager-Dove. So, we don't have a lot of fire--I mean,
    we don't have a lot of forests in Los Angeles, where I come
    from. But I do represent California, and have had my fair share
    of trips up north. I will have to say I think part of the
    reason we are here is because we, as Americans, as people, have
    misplaced hostility toward fire. I think the fear of fire is
    what brought us to this place where we are today, where we
    really have a reason to fear fire.
        I would also add that I do believe that it is the process
    of colonization that has really limited Indigenous fire
    stewardship practices, and we have to get back to that. It has
    led to radical ecological changes, including high fuel loads,
    decreased habitat for large game, reduction in the quantity of
    acorns, and alteration of growth patterns of basketry
    materials. And I think we do have an obligation to go back to
    Indigenous fire practices and that kind of stewardship if we
    are going to re-examine our relationship both with Mother Earth
    and with our forestry.
        Thank you, and with that I yield back, Mr. Chair.
        The Chairman. The gentlelady's time has expired. The Chair
    recognizes the gentleman from California, Mr. LaMalfa, for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate this
    hearing, and on this very important subject to our state. I
    live in far northern California, and have enjoyed the area of
    the sequoias over the years as our kids go down to the Hume
    Lake Christian Camp many times there, as we travel the area and
    enjoy the majesty of those amazing trees.
        But I also want to acknowledge, too, in recent years I have
    been very disturbed by the number of trees as we are traveling
    Highway 80 and the other side roads in those forested areas,
    not in the sequoia areas, but the surrounding, that looks like
    50 percent of the trees in those dense forests are gray and
    dead. And it just scares me for what a tinder box that is. So,
    I am going to direct a question to Chief Moore here.
        The previous questioning here is how much does this have to
    do with climate change or global warming. That isn't what makes
    trees grow densely. It is the lack of management and getting at
    it. So, pace and scale is that term I am going to keep using,
    that we have to vastly increase our pace and scale of doing
    forestry work, instead of these half measures we have been
    doing so long. And I know you are tied up with lawsuits, and
    environmentalists are suing all the time over the easiest
    projects, Randy. And it is frustrating for all of us. But we
    have to get real about this, because when that goes up there
    off that Highway 180 area, I don't know how you are going to
    stop it with the density you have.
        So, let me get to one of the major concerns noted by the
    John Muir Project is that this bill is a sneaky way to
    reinstitute old growth logging in our public lands. Do you
    think this is actually a valid concern?
        Mr. Moore. I have not heard that. Are you talking about the
    SOS bill?
        Mr. LaMalfa. On our sequoias bill, yes.
        Mr. Moore. No, I don't believe that at all, from what I
    understand of the bill.
        Mr. LaMalfa. OK, thank you. Yes, I don't think so either,
    but it might be construed that way.
        What precautions have we taken in the bill so that your
    agency will be able to ensure these old-growth forests are
    conserved----
        Mr. Moore. Well, as I indicated earlier, the intent of the
    bill we agree, and we think it is really good. There are some
    concerns that we have, particularly with the reporting
    requirements. In some of the areas it is redundant in some of
    the authorities we have. But we are happy to work with this
    Committee on those areas to make sure that we can more
    appropriately meet the intent of the bill.
        Mr. LaMalfa. Yes, we want to be effective, not redundant.
        Mr. Moore. Yes.
        Mr. LaMalfa. OK, thank you. Indeed, it is a bipartisan
    bill. I hoped it would be more of a victory lap here today, but
    it is one of a long line of bills that are categorical
    exclusions to do a decent amount of work on Federal lands, so
    we can do our jobs more efficiently and effectively, in spite
    of what NEPA frequently requires. So, I am grateful we have
    these CEs, and that they are usually pretty widely supported.
        But the necessity and the frequency that we need to do
    these CEs, it is the result, again, of the NEPA policy being so
    overbearing on doing basic work. So, every time we want to do
    one like this to save the sequoias, we have to overcome these
    restrictions we have in NEPA. Under the current authorities,
    how long would it take, do you think, to treat what are the 19
    most at-risk groves of giant sequoias. How long do you think it
    would take to treat it under current?
        Mr. Moore. Well, I will tell you what we are treating so
    far, in terms of the giant sequoia.
        Mr. LaMalfa. No, I am asking how long do you think it will
    take for us to be able to take these 19 groves out of the risk
    zone under the current pace?
        Mr. Moore. So, we are going to take 12 of the 19. We should
    have those done by next year.
        Mr. LaMalfa. Twelve of nineteen.
        Mr. Moore. Certainly, there is more to be done, but that is
    based on the resources that we have.
        Mr. LaMalfa. OK. Because we have estimates through our
    Committee here that it might take up to 52 years, having to go
    the CE route under current pace, and we don't have that much
    time to risk, especially as you drive 180 up there.
        So, if we get this bill done, though, how long do you think
    it will take to secure these 19 groves?
        Mr. Moore. Well, the bill is one piece, and that is
    probably a necessary piece with some changes and some
    additions. But it also depends, Congressman, as you know, on
    the resources that are provided to actually do the work on the
    ground.
        Mr. LaMalfa. Well, I think we will take care of the
    resources. If you have them, how long do you think it will
    take?
        Mr. Moore. I mean, we have, I believe, 19 of those. We are
    treating 12 of those, and we are treating those 12 in about a
    2-year time frame.
        Mr. LaMalfa. So, do you think you can get it done in, let's
    say 4, 5, 6 years if we had the resources on the last seven?
        Mr. Moore. Well, I don't know. If you provide the
    resources, I would certainly----
        Mr. LaMalfa. That is what we do. We need to hear from you
    what you need, and the authority to do it. That is what we are
    after. How long would it take to do it?
        Mr. Moore. I have never been able to get everything that I
    would like to have. So, it always depends on what Congress
    provides us in terms of resources.
        Mr. LaMalfa. All right. Do you think this bill sufficiently
    increases the pace and scale I am talking about to address this
    problem we are dealing with?
        Mr. Moore. I think it has the intent, and the intention----
        Mr. LaMalfa. The intent. So, you are not sure? Yes or no.
        Mr. Moore. Well, as I indicated earlier, I think the bill
    could be strengthened. And I talked about the reporting
    requirements and those things that are redundant in our
    existing authorities.
        Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
        Mr. Moore. We would be very interested in working with this
    Committee on those areas where we do have some concerns,
    Congressman.
        Mr. LaMalfa. OK.
        The Chairman. The gentleman's time----
        Mr. LaMalfa. I just wonder how many more CEs do we have to
    pass before we can determine that we have a broken process?
        Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.
        The Chairman. The gentleman's time has expired. The Chair
    now recognizes the gentlelady from New Mexico, Ms. Leger
    Fernandez, for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Chair Westerman, for
    bringing us all together, in many senses, to honor the sequoias
    and have each of us walk through our own memory lane of what we
    have done under those giant sequoias. I was able to camp in
    Kings Canyon under the sequoias, because nobody goes to Kings
    Canyon. Everybody stops at the giant sequoias and never makes
    it over to Kings Canyon, where you can actually pitch your tent
    under the giant trees and listen to the water rushing by.
        I wanted to really build on the beautiful comments that
    Vice Chair Nieto provided us. Last year, I chaired a hearing in
    the Subcommittee for Indigenous Peoples on Indigenous cultural
    and environmental preservation, where, similar to you, Ms.
    Elizabeth Azzuz told us about her work to re-establish
    traditional burns in forests, which can create healthier forest
    ecosystems and strengthen tribal cultural practices. And we
    have heard once again directly about the gift that fire indeed
    brings, and about how you are so willing to share with us and,
    in fact, take us to cooking school to share with us exactly how
    you work on that.
        Could you describe a bit more about the work that you do
    working with restoring the sequoias, and how that might indeed
    provide lessons to your colleagues who you are, as I
    understand, in collaboration with on this effort to save the
    giant sequoias?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, ma'am. Thank you. Yes, we have been doing
    this, like I said, for a long time, since I have been walking.
        And we had decided to invite Mr. Moore's people from our
    neighbor's side, the Springville side, or Kings Canyon, or
    anybody that wanted to come to our land and witness the
    controlled burning, learn the controlled burning, so we invited
    them to our meadows and did some controlled burning there with
    one of our friends from the North Fork Tribe, an elder, Ron
    Good. He came back and helped us out because in our way--of
    course, probably in your way, where you come from, our elders
    are the main people we have to listen to.
        So, when we bring someone in, we wanted them to know how it
    goes throughout the land, and that we are all, even though we
    are not the same tribe, we are all the same people. And that is
    how we wanted to treat Mr. Moore's people, as our neighbors,
    and to walk them into our land, and to show them that we are
    not trying to keep this way, but we would like you guys to
    practice it because it will help save our side of the land, as
    well as yours. Because if you don't practice this way in a good
    way, then your land is going to burn, and our land is going to
    burn with yours because your burn is going to come to our side
    and burn our side down also, because you are not keeping your
    yard clean is a good way to say it, I mean.
        So, that is why we invited them over, and then we did a
    burn this last year. So, when the snow finally melts up there
    where we did the meadows, we are going to welcome them back
    again so they can see how the seedlings came up, and what
    actually grew, and how it brings back everything that was there
    from centuries to yesterday. So, they are going to get to see,
    and seeing is believing.
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. Is that this year?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, this year. We are looking forward to that.
    And, hopefully, all our gods together will bring those plants
    to life so they can believe that this is actually a real thing
    that is really possible.
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you so much, Mr. Vice Chair. And
    I liken your testimony where you actually pointed that this
    beautiful trip that I think all of us really want to be on with
    you is indeed science, right, it is science, and we need to
    recognize it.
        The other thing that I would like to have you touch on
    really quickly is the role of the tribal historic preservation
    officers, because we want to make sure that we don't eliminate
    the importance of the role that tribal historic preservation
    officers play in both the work that you are doing in the
    sequoias--because the tribes have always been involved--but the
    work that is done across this country.
        And we heard testimony that, basically, we don't fund our
    Tribal Historic Preservation Officers sufficiently. They get
    about $75,000 a year, which is inadequate. Do you involve your
    Tribal Preservation Historic Officers in your work, your TPHOs?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes. We never really needed a TPHO officer,
    because we all, like I said, the ones that are cultured, we
    already knew how to work our system, and we are born into it.
    But with all the little hoops you have to jump most of the
    time, we had to establish a TPHO officer. So, ours is actually
    getting into place now, and we don't get any money to support
    it. We have to use our subsidy to support that position now.
        So, we are trying to look into getting more resources
    because, even though we do have gaming, and everybody thinks
    that gaming is the answer to everything, most of our gaming as
    a tribe we put toward our programs, and that TPHO program will
    be one of them.
        And we are not in it for the money, we are in it for
    survival. And just like the trees, they are in it for us to
    protect them. And that is what we want to do. And it is not
    only our sequoias that we want to protect----
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. Thank you, Mr. Vice Chair. I hear the
    little pounding of the gavel to close the conversation.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Nieto. Oh, my bad, yes. I usually get that.
        Ms. Leger Fernandez. You are bringing important
    information. I am sorry that we do have those timelines.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Mr. Bentz [presiding]. Thank you. And with that we
    recognize Mr. Stauber for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Stauber. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
        Chief Moore, we have lost 20 percent of the world's mature
    giant sequoias due to high severity fire in just these past 2
    years. Despite this, yesterday my staff received an e-mail from
    the John Muir Project opposing this legislation because, and I
    quote, ``Moderate and high severity fire means continued life
    for giant sequoias and their ecosystems.'' Chief Moore, would
    you agree or disagree that the giant sequoias need more high
    severity fires?
        Mr. Moore. Congressman, I think the emergency situation we
    find ourselves in today is because of a combination of high
    severity fires in combination with overly-stocked, dense
    vegetation.
        Mr. Stauber. So, you don't agree that we need more high
    severity fires?
        Mr. Moore. What I am saying is high severity fires are the
    reason we have this emergency.
        Mr. Stauber. Right. Giant sequoias need low severity fires
    at intervals of roughly 30 times per century. Recent high
    severity fires have killed, not helped, giant sequoias.
        And then sequoias do need fire to regenerate, but recent
    high severity fires have burned with such intensity there are
    many areas that are unlikely to naturally regenerate. Chief
    Moore, given this fact, would you agree that high severity
    fires are not beneficial for sequoia regeneration, as suggested
    by the John Muir Project?
        Mr. Moore. High severity fires are not beneficial to giant
    sequoias.
        Mr. Stauber. In October 2021, the editorial board of the
    Sacramento Bee released the following editorial about the John
    Muir Project, and I quote, ``By weaponizing Federal protections
    such as the National Environmental Policy Act and the
    Endangered Species Act to obstruct or outright kill various
    wildfire prevention projects, environmentalists imperil the
    very ecosystems they wish to protect. Organizations like the
    John Muir Project have been accused by leading experts of
    spreading agenda-driven science that promotes specific,
    unsupported narratives, and avoids data to back up their
    litigious claims. At least 111 scientists have co-authored at
    least 41 scientific papers to rebut their dubious methods.''
        Amazingly, this organization was also involved in blocking
    a forest management project at Yosemite National Park designed
    to protect giant sequoias. Two days later, a fire breaks out in
    the Mariposa Grove of giant sequoias at Yosemite. Chief Moore,
    can you please discuss how litigation and the threat of
    litigation can imperil the work of land managers to protect
    iconic species like the giant sequoia?
        Mr. Moore. Yes, Congressman. What I can tell you is,
    particularly in some parts of the United States and in some
    regions of the Forest Service, litigation can and does have an
    impact on projects. And sometimes they get delayed to the point
    where we are waiting for the courts to make a decision.
        And it depends on what is the purpose of the NEPA to begin
    with. Let's just say that you had a fire, and you want to do a
    salvage sale out there. Burnt timber only has so long before
    the value goes. So, if the project is delayed long enough, then
    the purpose and need for that salvage evaporates.
        Mr. Stauber. Right. In the interest of time, you mentioned
    NEPA. Based on your understanding of the bill, does it waive
    any requirements for the agency to comply with environmental
    laws like NEPA?
        Mr. Moore. No, Congressman, it doesn't.
        Mr. Stauber. OK.
        Mr. Moore. It is compatible.
        Mr. Stauber. Chief Moore, opponents of this bill have
    suggested this legislation would hand over all decision-making
    authority for giant sequoias to the Giant Sequoia Lands
    Coalition. Based on your understanding, is there anything in
    this legislation that would remove the Forest Service's
    decision-making authority for giant sequoias on National Forest
    System lands?
        Mr. Moore. No, sir. My reading of the bill, the authority
    resides with the Forest Service.
        Mr. Stauber. Thank you very much.
        Mr. Chair, I yield back.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Representative
    Ocasio-Cortez for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you, Mr. Chair. This overall bill
    dedicates $200 million over the next 7 years to address the
    impact of the climate crisis on the sequoias. And these
    appropriations look almost identical to the Senate version of
    Senator Feinstein's bill, as well.
        But when we look closer at this House version introduced by
    Speaker McCarthy, we see that, unlike the Senate version, this
    version does seem to compromise our bedrock environmental laws
    like the National Environmental Protection Act.
        Additionally, we have also seen from Speaker McCarthy that
    any new spending must be accompanied by cuts to existing
    spending. And I do believe that it is important for the
    Committee to understand what $200 million cuts the Speaker
    intends to impose in order for us to make these important
    investments.
        But let's dig further into this bill. Mr. Desai, I would
    like to understand what emergency actions are already taking
    place at our national parks to restore and conserve giant
    sequoia groves, and can you describe current efforts that are
    currently underway?
        Mr. Desai. Thank you for your question. As I was mentioning
    in my opening statement, specific to Yosemite and Sequoia Kings
    Canyon, Yosemite has already been advancing biomass removal and
    thinning projects in Tuolumne and Merced Grove. They are also
    continuing work at the Mariposa Grove. And what we just saw
    recently, which we are thankful for, is Sequoia Kings Canyon
    has this Sequoia Protection Action Plan that lays out in 3
    years how they plan to accomplish all of their priority fuels
    reduction treatments. So, from what we are seeing, there is
    action taking place by the National Park Service.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. And in your view, has NEPA
    been an obstacle to these conservation efforts?
        Mr. Desai. They have not. I mean, the Park Service is
    working within their existing authorities. And our interest
    here has been to scale that up. And the way we see that scaling
    up is by actually getting funding and resources so that they
    and this coalition can do their work.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. And is that what you would
    say are the primary obstacles to improving these conservation
    efforts, just the funding and additional resources? Are there
    any additional obstacles that you see in your purview?
        Mr. Desai. Well, there is stuff at the state level like air
    quality-related issues that Dr. Nelson mentioned, but that is a
    state issue.
        But at the Federal level, what we are seeing is that it is
    funding and staffing. You know, a CE, a categorical exclusion,
    can move as fast as we have people working on it. If we have a
    compliance person spread across 10 projects, that is 10 percent
    working on this. And we would like these expedited processes to
    be maximized as quickly as possible, and that means we need
    staffing and money.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Yes, and I wanted to kind of touch on
    that.
        I would like to seek unanimous consent from the Chair to
    introduce into the record the Sequoia and Kings County National
    Park Sequoia Grove Action Plan.
        Mr. Bentz. Without objection.

        [The information follows:]

    Submission for the Record by Rep. Ocasio-Cortez

    [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Mr. Desai, do you happen to be familiar
    with this report?
        Mr. Desai. Yes.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. And this action plan does lay out a 3-
    year timetable for caring for the sequoia groves. But it also
    notes that the action plan is ``subject to staffing
    availability,'' to your note. Do you believe that this plan is
    achievable, given current staffing levels, and what would
    appropriate staffing levels look like for us?
        Mr. Desai. Yes, that is what the Park Service has said. And
    when we enter fire season, staffing is deployed to all these
    other uses, right? So, we need dedicated folks to this exact
    sequoia protection project. And I think the needs have been
    identified, at least by Sequoia Kings Canyon. I don't know what
    that exact number is, off the top of my head, but that is what
    we need to fund. Or at least get the Administration to release
    funds, because Congress has provided through the BIL, through
    the Inflation Reduction Act, the funding that can be used for
    this exact purpose. So, that is where we think we would like to
    spend some of our attention.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Wonderful, thank you. And this action
    plan does not require changes to NEPA or any bedrock
    environmental laws, correct?
        Mr. Desai. It is working within the existing authorities
    for the Park Service.
        Ms. Ocasio-Cortez. Thank you. With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Representative
    Hageman for 5 minutes.
        Ms. Hageman. Good morning, and thank you.
        For decades, Federal regulations have limited the ability
    of Federal and state agencies, as well as our tribes, to
    properly manage our national forests. Many Western forests,
    including in my home state of Wyoming, are dying from bark
    beetle attacks and extreme wildfires. Many radical
    environmental groups have weaponized the Federal process
    through serial litigation, resulting in the tightening of
    Federal grip on our public lands. And these serial litigants
    don't just cause uncertainty for farmers, ranchers, and
    producers; they also cripple our ability to manage our forests
    with preventative wildfire and harvesting techniques throughout
    the West.
        Such was the case in the unfortunate burning of the
    Mariposa Grove of giant sequoias, and by weaponizing Federal
    protections such as NEPA and the ESA, serial litigators blocked
    management projects that land managers identified as crucial to
    protecting giant sequoias in Yosemite National Park. And such
    is the case with many of our western forests, including in
    Wyoming, which still suffer from unwise and destructive
    management policies such as the 2001 roadless rule that
    negatively impacted forest health and sustainability.
        Unfortunately, our tribes disproportionately bear the brunt
    of these harmful Federal policies, resulting in the destruction
    of many treasured and sacred landscapes. In 2021 alone, nearly
    400,000 acres of Federal Indian reservation lands were burned
    by wildfires. The proximity and interconnectedness of Federal
    tribal lands and lands managed by the U.S. Forest Service and
    the Department of the Interior requires the highest level of
    accountability of our Federal employees for appropriate
    wildfire prevention efforts, or lack thereof.
        Mr. Nieto, you have made it clear that the SOS Act will
    improve the ability of the Tule River Indian Tribe of
    California to collaborate with forest managers and ultimately
    expedite wildfire prevention activities. With regard to your
    past experience, can you please talk about the impact to tribal
    lands when Federal lands are not managed appropriately?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, ma'am. Like I said, we had two fires that
    hit our reservation. One was natural, from the lightning, the
    Windy Fire, and then another one was a car wreck on the
    Springville side of the river over there. And since they didn't
    manage their land too well, without the clearings that they
    needed to do as people, that fire came raging over our
    mountains and burned a lot of our fires before we could get to
    it.
        And both sides of the mountain are very steep and rough
    terrain, so we understand some of the stuff that they couldn't,
    but where the fire had started, if they would have controlled a
    little bit of that better, it probably wouldn't have gotten so
    far, it probably wouldn't have jumped the river.
        With that being said, it is easy to point fingers after
    something is done, but it is hard when all these guys get to
    make the rules, and we have to listen to them and obey them,
    when we could be protecting things.
        So, I am glad Mr. Moore's people are finally sitting down
    at the same table with us and welcoming us into the room. We
    actually opened up their new building in Porterville with them.
    And I just left there last week. They hired one of our tribal
    members as a liaison, so we are working pretty close with them
    now.
        Ms. Hageman. I am glad to hear that. That is great. Bad
    forest management can result in a catastrophic outcome, can't
    it?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes. And then also, too, like in my testimony
    about our water and our reservoir, our river is so decimated
    with less water nowadays that when it did come to our side, the
    reservation, we had nowhere for the helicopters to get water
    because our river was so shallow. So, they had to go off land
    to get water just to put our fire out.
        So, even though we controlled our land and cleaned it,
    there was no water for them to even try to put the smallest
    fire out. So, it kept burning. That is why our water thing was
    in our testimony today, because no matter what, we are still
    going to need water to fight fires, let alone to survive.
        Ms. Hageman. That is exactly right, and I appreciate your
    perspective.
        If there is no expedited process to care for these forests,
    such as the SOS Act, or if we don't act on this legislation,
    what will be the impact on your tribes, specifically in the
    next 10 to 20 years?
        Mr. Nieto. Well, we will never see those groves again. They
    will be gone.
        I welcome anybody that opposes this bill to come to our
    land and see the difference of both sides of what we are
    talking about, or what I am testifying today. I welcome anybody
    to Tule River that opposes this bill, so they can see how bad
    those trees burn. Those trees burned right in the middle of it.
    When I see that video of Jose crying, I am a grown man, and
    when I take myself back to seeing that for the first time, it
    still bothers me today because that is something that we love.
    We love everything that we have, and what little we have today,
    we try to protect as much as we can.
        Ms. Hageman. Again, I thank you so much for your
    perspective, and being here today. I thank all of the
    witnesses.
        With that, I yield back.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Peters for 5
    minutes.
        Mr. Peters. Thank you so much. I want to thank Chairman
    Westerman, Congressmen Costa and Panetta, and all of our
    partners, including our tribal partners, for supporting this
    important legislation.
        The Save Our Sequoias Act is a comprehensive, bipartisan
    bill that will save an iconic species from extinction. It
    provides sufficient funding to staff and support sequoia
    protection projects, helping the Park Service and Forest
    Service scale their existing efforts. It provides clear
    statutory authority so land managers can take immediate
    emergency action with fewer legal risks. And it was developed
    with a group of local, state, Federal, and community
    representatives, and shares strong supports in Congress, with
    50 co-sponsors, including 23 Democrats. The Save Our Sequoias
    Act is the only bipartisan bill in Congress capable of
    protecting this species from extinction, and we should pass it
    right away.
        Dr. Nelson, Save the Redwoods League is a science-based
    organization that manages redwoods and giant sequoia. In your
    expert opinion, are the giant sequoias facing an emergency
    threat from extreme wildfire?
        Dr. Nelson. Yes, they are.
        Mr. Peters. Do you agree that ecological thinning,
    mechanical and handcrew treatments, and pile and prescribed
    burning are critically important to protect sequoia groves from
    the risks of wildfire?
        Dr. Nelson. I do. You have listed a suite of tools, and we
    are going to have experts such as registered professional
    foresters giving specific prescriptions to specific places and,
    yes, they are going to be drawing on those tools.
        Mr. Peters. Great.
        Chief Moore, in June 2022, the Forest Service announced it
    would take emergency actions, including the authorities
    codified in our Save the Sequoias Act, to protect giant
    sequoias in 12 out of the 37 U.S. Forest Service-managed
    groves, which you have discussed before, and thank you for
    doing that.
        These emergency actions were taken prior to the completion
    of a formal NEPA analysis. Why did the Forest Service choose to
    use its emergency authorities proactively to protect giant
    sequoias?
        Mr. Moore. I would like to start by saying that the action
    that we took was NEPA. It was authorities that we have had in
    place since, I think, about 1989, and it is called the
    alternative arrangements. That is basically where we develop an
    action alternative, and begin to implement the work without
    having an objection period. That was the authority we used.
        So far, we have approved six projects, and we have a number
    of other projects in the pipeline working their way up.
        Mr. Peters. How does the Forest Service balance the need to
    conduct forest treatments quickly, while still conducting sound
    environmental analysis?
        Mr. Moore. Well, we think it is important to have sound
    environmental analysis. What we also think is it is important
    to have a streamlined approach to how we do that analysis. And
    looking at the traditional ways that we do business is
    categorical exclusion, environmental assessment, environmental
    impact statements. And each of those depends on the level of
    significance.
        We are finding that we are able to streamline our
    processes. And to give you an idea, 85 percent of all of our
    projects now are done with categorical exclusion, and that is
    up from about 70 percent as long as 10 years ago. And a big
    part of that is just streamlining the process, but also
    educating the workforce on when and where to use the right
    tool.
        Mr. Peters. Well, you have a pragmatic approach to getting
    the job done within all the legal framework that you have, and
    also with the resources you have. And I think we are trying to
    help you with that with this bill.
        And Mr. Desai, the Save Our Sequoias Act would provide over
    $200 million in funding to support giant sequoia protection
    projects. How would this funding help scale the Park Service's
    existing efforts to protect giant sequoias from extreme fire?
        Mr. Desai. Thank you for the question. We need money, a
    combination of Congress appropriating money and the
    Administration, what they have releasing it to these agencies
    for the National Park Service. They have this 3-year action
    plan, Sequoia, but this work is going to continue. It is not
    just we are doing it for 3 years or we are doing it for 7
    years, right? It is going to continue over the long term, and
    really bringing back the combination of traditional ecological
    knowledge, the work that these agencies have been doing to keep
    fire into this environment.
        So, the money is needed. It needs to be appropriated as
    soon as it can. I think it gives these agencies certainty so
    that they can plan, yes.
        Mr. Peters. I appreciate that. Thank you very much. Thanks
    again for being here.
        Look, this strikes me as one of the easier challenges we
    are going to have on this wildfire issue. If we can't come
    together on sequoias, I think it is going to be much more
    difficult for us to address the larger wildfire issues that we
    have in California, Oregon, Washington, and across the West. We
    have a lot of work to do, and I am looking forward to working
    with you all and with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle
    to deal with what really is a huge risk for the environment and
    for our way of life. So again, I thank you for your expertise.
        And Mr. Vice Chairman, in particular, thank you for the
    constructive input you have had as a tribe. It is very, very
    helpful to us. We very much appreciate it.
        I yield back.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Mr. Fulcher for
    5 minutes.
        Mr. Fulcher. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, Mr. Chairman, I
    assume that Chief Moore is expecting me to talk to him about
    Good Neighbor Authority again, because I think every time I
    talk with him, that is a broken record, and I know he hears
    that a lot. But I am not going to do that today because there
    is another person here that I would like to talk to about the
    same thing, and that is Vice Chairman Nieto.
        Thank you for being here, and for your insight. And also, I
    feel I should just explain right up front that my motive here
    is hopefully to embrace you to help me sell Mr. Moore on the
    Good Neighbor Authority, although I think he has been very
    receptive to it. But that is the basis of my question.
        And as you know, this bill, it would expand the Good
    Neighbor Authority to tribes in relation to the giant sequoias.
    And I would just ask you to the extent you are familiar with
    that, and just what you think about that, and is that something
    that you believe would be beneficial both for the environment
    and for the tribes?
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, I think not only my tribe, but also other
    tribes are willing to help Mr. Moore and his people, as well as
    the United States and anywhere we go because like I said, those
    trees are not only something that we need, those trees mean a
    lot to us as a tribe.
        They are our ancestors, like I said. We heard earlier today
    that they precede the Mayflower, they precede maybe even
    Christ, which most people don't like to get into. But without
    that, without saving these trees and other trees, where do you
    take your kids when you talk about the forest? You know what I
    mean? Where do you take the future generations when there are
    no trees left? Where do you go? You can't just go to the beach
    all the time. Some people like to go to the mountains, and if
    there are no trees to see, then you have nothing.
        And I can only speak for my tribe, but we are right in the
    door with Mr. Moore's people, and we welcome them any time they
    want to come. Our land is open to them.
        Mr. Fulcher. Mr. Nieto, on a related note, in your written
    testimony, you spoke about preventative work that your tribe
    does and did specifically prior to the Windy Fire, which was so
    devastating. Talk about that preventive work just a little bit.
    I know you have touched on it, but I am going to ask you to
    touch on it again because I think we can all learn the
    importance of preventative work, and clearing of growth, and so
    on.
        Mr. Nieto. Yes, sir. An easy picture for you guys or
    anybody that is opposed to this is, a firefighter makes a
    firebreak to stop the fire from burning. Then he backburns that
    fire. So, to put a firebreak, as per se, around these big
    trees, these monarchs, as you guys say, that we call the
    ancestors, it helps prevent them from even getting touched. And
    then their bark actually could just feel the warmth of the
    fire.
        When someone says they need the fire to breathe, to
    actually live, they are actually right. But the fire doesn't
    have to get right up to their porch and burn the roots of them,
    because once you burn the roots of them there is no soil to
    hold them there, and then they fall. We have seen that, and we
    witnessed that on the BLM side of our land.
        And we watch these trees break in half from the middle of
    them. And to see some of them break in half is something I
    never thought I would see in my lifetime, just like our river
    never going dry. I never thought I would see that in my
    lifetime. But I have seen both. And it is pretty painful to
    see, as a person that loves the land, and that has been taught
    to respect the land.
        Mr. Fulcher. Thank you.
        Mr. Nieto. The only thing that we would probably want to do
    is take Mr. Moore's job. But I don't want to move to DC, so I
    would like to stay where I am at.
        [Laughter.]
        Mr. Fulcher. Yes, I don't blame you for that, Mr. Nieto.
    Thank you for the input.
        Mr. Moore, thank you for being a good sport, and for
    listening to me again, just indirectly this time, regarding
    Good Neighbor Authority. But it is a good thing. Thank you.
        Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes Ranking Member
    Grijalva for 5 minutes.
        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
        Mr. Desai, I want to ask you some questions about the
    ongoing restoration efforts regarding the sequoias, obviously,
    and to re-emphasize some points.
        This is a critical piece of bipartisan legislation, it
    needs to be a priority. Protecting the sequoias needs to be a
    priority. But I just want to reaffirm three points that have
    come up during these discussions.
        From your perspective, does the Park Service need new
    authority to be able to protect and save the sequoias?
        Mr. Desai. When it comes to the compliance and categorical
    exclusions? No. I mean, there----
        Mr. Grijalva. Is there active litigation? Because we heard
    about that today and constantly. Is there active litigation on
    the current emergency actions that are being undertaken?
        Mr. Desai. No, not to my knowledge for the Park Service or
    the Forest Service.
        Mr. Grijalva. And the factors that are really needed right
    now to continue the ongoing work and to scale up?
        Mr. Desai. Yes. Just to restate, it is funding, it is
    staffing, it is everything from the people on the ground during
    the summer where we can have dedicated folks making sure that
    we are clipping through this 3-year program, and the resource
    is not being diverted toward other important things like
    wildfires, which staff will get diverted.
        Right now, the Park Service does not have the resources to
    carry all of this stuff out, but also it is a compliance issue,
    if we want to really maximize these categorical exclusions and
    make use of them, we need people to be actually working on
    them. And the problem is that they are spread thin, and we are
    not giving them the resources to expedite as fast as we want
    and scale up. That is the goal, right? Scaling up.
        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you.
        Dr. Nelson, can you briefly discuss how warming
    temperatures caused by fossil fuel consumption are impacting
    the giant sequoias in the short term and the long term?
        Dr. Nelson. Yes. I will start with a study in the Western
    United States that shows that human-caused climate change has
    doubled the forest fire area since 1984. And that parsed out
    human-caused climate change from all forms. So, climate change
    is making the problem worse. In the giant sequoia, it leads to
    warming air temperatures and land temperatures. We have drier
    fuels that are more flammable.
        Mr. Grijalva. Thank you very much.
        Chief Moore, one of the issues is having the capacity, i.e.
    the resources, to be able to implement at a more rapid scale
    and at a higher scale, what is ongoing right now in terms of
    the Forest Service and the protection of sequoias. If
    projections are accurate--and I believe they are--in terms of
    what the recently-passed budget on the part of the Majority,
    the Republican Majority, here in the House, what impact would
    that resource issue that seems to be central to the discussion
    of response and long-term protection to sequoias, what would
    that do?
        Mr. Moore. Congressman, I have not been briefed on the
    potential impacts of the proposed budget. Right now, we are
    looking at the Administration's budget and what it would mean
    to these efforts going forward.
        Mr. Grijalva. And I think I would like to at some point, as
    we go forward with the proposed--there is not a lot of
    specificity to it, but let's pick a percentage, 22 percent cut
    in non-defense areas. What would that do in terms of the
    response?
        But that is something you can forward to us. It is a
    general question. You haven't been briefed on it, so we will
    hold for that one.
        Mr. Moore. I am happy to.
        Mr. Grijalva. Chief Moore, the other question I want to
    switch to is to focus on the land transfer of Oak Flat. And I
    decided to shift to that question because my colleague making
    the very valid point of the treasured and sacred tribal lands
    that need to be protected and taken care of. So, I switched to
    that.
        Oak Flat will be transferred to this foreign-owned
    Resolution Copper mining company after USDA releases its final
    EIS in the near future. In 2021, the Biden administration
    rescinded the FEIS and re-initiated the consultation process
    with the Arizona Tribes. While I appreciate this decision and
    the Biden administration's Memorandum on Uniform Standards for
    Tribal Consultation, I am concerned about the fact that the
    agency has not re-initiated formal tribal consultation with the
    San Carlos Apache Tribe.
        Before considering the publication of any updated EIS
    statement, I would implore USDA and your agency to conduct
    effective, meaningful consultations with the tribes in Arizona,
    and specifically the San Carlos Apache Tribe under the recent
    executive memorandum and the 2022 CEQ regulations. I leave that
    as more of a message than a question, Chief.
        Thank you very much. I yield back.
        Mr. Moore. Thank you.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you. The Chair recognizes himself for 5
    minutes.
        Do any of the witnesses believe that the giant sequoias are
    not in danger? If you think they are not in danger, raise your
    hand.
        Let the record reflect no one is raising their hand.
        Mr. Desai, you indicated that we should probably try to get
    the Administration to release funding. And by that I think you
    are talking to the so-called Inflation Reduction Act monies.
    And I would just look quickly here at some literature. It
    indicates that on January 19, 2023, just a few months ago, that
    Secretary Vilsack stepped up and said that they are going to
    release $490 million, and have, apparently. Is this the money
    you are talking about that is not being used to address this
    issue?
        Mr. Desai. Thank you for the question. There is a different
    provision. I believe it is a different provision that lists out
    certain amounts of money, and it actually specifies giant
    sequoias as being a potential beneficiary of that.
        There is also funding in there for staffing to support
    these types of compliance work, so we can move quickly on the
    categorical exclusions.
        And then just general--at least specifically for the
    National Park Service--money for staffing for resiliency
    projects like this giant sequoia restoration.
        So, that may be a funding source, but there are other ones
    too that could apply to helping them move forward this good
    work, and increase the pace and scale.
        Mr. Bentz. OK. So, I have listened to most of the hearing
    today, and I am trying to find out exactly why we aren't doing
    something. We have the money, big piles of it, but nothing--at
    least not enough--is happening. I hate to say nothing.
    Something has. We heard about it from Chief Moore. So, in your
    opinion, Mr. Desai, what is preventing that money from flowing
    out and saving these trees?
        Mr. Desai. Last year, I believe it was the Bipartisan
    Infrastructure Law that released funds that Congress had
    provided. I don't know exactly where the Park Service is in its
    process, but releasing the funds should be coming up soon. So,
    hopefully, that will be applicable to this. It is something
    that we would advocate for.
        Mr. Bentz. OK. Well, again, I am sure we would all advocate
    for it. What I am trying to do here is identify what we need to
    do now, today, to try to address what could be a huge issue in
    just a couple of months, as soon as all the snow goes off and
    all that water we all wanted produces a huge amount of
    undergrowth, and that leads to more fires.
        So, tell me, what can we do today to help? If the money is
    there, what is it that is slowing it down? What? I need you to
    tell me. If you don't know, then I am going to ask somebody
    else. But if you do, tell me.
        Mr. Desai. Open it up for anyone else here, but on my end I
    would say that we need to collectively advocate for any funding
    where sequoia restoration is eligible. That is one thing.
        And then separately, what can Congress do to actually
    appropriate monies so that over these coming years, this is
    going to be a multi-year process----
        Mr. Bentz. It is going to be--forgive me for interrupting,
    but $400, almost $500 million was just allocated a few months
    ago. That money has not been spent, and it could be focused on
    these trees.
        Supervisor Townsend, what, in your opinion, is preventing
    us from moving forward? Or in your opinion, are we doing just
    fine?
        Mr. Townsend. As I mentioned in my testimony, the NEPA and
    the ESA do provide an opportunity for litigation, and there are
    groups that, as was mentioned by other Congressmen today,
    groups that come out and say that this bill, these types of
    bills are going to cause us to reinstate bad forest practices,
    things like that. So, there is a hesitancy with the people that
    are in charge on the ground to actually implement some of these
    policies, even though maybe some funding has been provided.
    There is a hesitancy due to litigation.
        Mr. Bentz. For fear of a lawsuit being filed, nothing is
    happening, and these trees are being put at risk. So, that
    would be your opinion of what is stopping us from saving these
    trees, this fear. Is there some way we can overcome this fear?
        Mr. Townsend. Well, I would say that if we would go ahead
    and get this codified, that we could say, OK, we all agree now,
    Congress has provided this Act, that we can go ahead and move
    forward, and do it quickly. I think that providing that funding
    for a sustained period of time would be instrumental in getting
    that done.
        Mr. Bentz. Thank you, and I want to thank all of our
    witnesses for your testimony. It has been extremely
    enlightening, and, of course, the Members for their questions.
        The members of the Committee may have some additional
    questions for our witnesses today, and we will ask that they
    respond to these in writing. Under Committee Rule 3, members of
    the Committee must submit questions to the Committee Clerk by 5
    p.m. on Monday, May 15, 2023. The hearing record will be held
    open for 10 business days for these responses.
        If there is no further business, without objection, the
    Committee on Natural Resources stands adjourned.

        [Whereupon, at 12:36 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]

                [ADDITIONAL MATERIALS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD]

    Submissions for the Record by Rep. McCarthy

                       Fresno County Board of Supervisors

                               Fresno, California

                                                     April 27, 2023

    Hon. Kevin McCarthy, Speaker
    U.S. House of Representatives
    Washington, DC 20515

    Re: The Save Our Sequoias Act--SUPPORT

        Dear Speaker McCarthy:

        On behalf of the Fresno County Board of Supervisors, I am writing
    in support of the ``Save Our Sequoias Act'' (SOS Act) which would
    protect, enhance, and restore our Giant Sequoia groves here in Fresno
    County and adjacent counties.

        These ancient trees have survived several millennia only to be
    threatened by forest management practices over the last few decades.
    These practices have created a massive build-up of fuels in and around
    our Giant Sequoia groves. Although Giant Sequoias are naturally fire-
    resilient, this accumulation of fuel has led to unnaturally intense,
    high-severity wildfires. In the last two years alone, these fires have
    decimated nearly one-fifth of all Giant Sequoias on the planet. With
    this expedited timeline of destruction, the very existence of our
    world-renowned Giant Sequoias is at risk.

        Significant action to mitigate the dangers of these wildfires
    through fuel reduction practices has been too slow due to lack of
    resources, environmental resistance, regulation, and litigation. At its
    current pace, it would take the U.S. Forest Service approximately 52
    years to treat just their 19 most at-risk Giant Sequoia groves. We need
    to take immediate action to secure the health and longevity of these
    groves.

        The SOS Act will provide land managers with the emergency tools and
    resources needed to save the remaining Giant Sequoia groves. The bill
    will improve interagency coordination between Federal, State, Tribal,
    and local land managers, through shared stewardship agreements. The SOS
    Act also establishes a comprehensive reforestation strategy to restore
    groves that have been lost to wildfire and funds a new grant program to
    facilitate increased hazardous fuel reduction practices. All this will
    take place under an expedited process provided by a declared emergency
    to codify existing emergency procedures, fast-track environmental
    reviews, while also maintaining robust scientific analysis.

        The SOS Act will ensure that our Giant Sequoia groves are healthy
    and thriving for generations to come. For these reasons, the Fresno
    County Board of Supervisors strongly supports the SOS Act.

                Sincerely,

                                                  Sal Quintero,
                                                               Chairman

                                     ______

                        Kern County Board of Supervisors

                            Bakersfield, California

                                                     April 26, 2023

    Hon. Kevin McCarthy, Speaker
    U.S. House of Representatives
    2468 Rayburn House Office
    Washington, DC 20515

    Re: Save Our Sequoias Act (McCarthy & Peters)--SUPPORT

        Dear Speaker McCarthy:

        The Kern County Board of Supervisors is pleased to support the Save
    Our Sequoias (SOS) Act, which will enhance coordination between
    Federal, State, Tribal, and local land managers to accelerate science-
    based forest treatments to improve the resilience of Giant Sequoias to
    the dangers of wildfire.

        Over a century of fire suppression mismanagement has created a
    massive build-up of hazardous fuels around the Giant Sequoias, leading
    to unnaturally intense wildfires. Since 2015, fires in California have
    destroyed nearly one-fifth of all Giant Sequoias.

        The County of Kern applauds the SOS Act's funding and establishment
    of a new grant program to support the implementation of hazardous fuels
    reduction treatments in and around Giant Sequoia groves. Additionally,
    the codification of expedited emergency procedures and environmental
    reviews along with comprehensive reforestation strategies to regenerate
    Giant Sequoias will help ensure the survival of one of California' s
    most revered natural wonders.

        For these reasons, our Board fully endorses the SOS Act and will
    continue to support this legislation.

                Sincerely,

                                                   Jeff Flores,
                                                               Chairman

                                     ______

                       Tulare County Board of Supervisors

                              Visalia, California

                                                     April 26, 2023

    Hon. Kevin McCarthy
    U.S. House of Representatives
    2468 Rayburn House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515

    Re: The Save Our Sequoias Act--SUPPORT

        Dear Speaker McCarthy:

        On behalf of the Tulare County Board of Supervisors, I write in
    strong support of the Save our Sequoias Act (SOS Act) which would
    protect, enhance, and restore our Giant Sequoia groves here in Tulare
    County.

        Tulare County is home to the vast majority of the 37,000 acres of
    Giant Sequoias available in the world. These ancient trees have
    survived several millennia only to be threatened by poor forest
    management practices over the last few decades. These practices have
    created a massive build-up of fuels in and around our Giant Sequoia
    groves. Although Giant Sequoias are naturally fire-resilient, this
    accumulation of fuel has led to unnaturally intense, high-severity
    wildfires that have destroyed nearly one-fifth of all Giant Sequoias on
    earth, in the last two years alone. With this expedited timeline of
    destruction, the very existence of our world-renowned Giant Sequoias is
    at risk.

        Significant action to mitigate the danger of these wildfires
    through fuel reduction practices has been advancing at a snail's pace
    due to lack of resources, environmental resistance, regulation, and
    litigation. At its current pace, it would take the U.S. Forest Service
    approximately 52 years to treat just their 19 most at-risk Giant
    Sequoia groves. We need to take immediate action to secure the health
    and longevity of these groves. The SOS Act will provide land managers
    with the emergency tools and resources needed to save the remaining
    Giant Sequoias.

        This bill will improve interagency coordination between Federal,
    State, Tribal, and local land managers through shared stewardship
    agreements. The SOS Act also establishes a comprehensive reforestation
    strategy to restore groves that have been lost to wildfire, and funds a
    new grant program to facilitate increased hazardous fuel reduction
    practices. All this will take place under an expediated processes
    provided by a declared emergency to codify existing emergency
    procedures, fast-track environmental reviews, while also maintaining
    robust scientific analysis.

        The SOS will ensure that our Giant Sequoia groves are healthy and
    thriving for generations to come. For these reasons, I stand in strong
    support of the Save our Sequoias Act.

                Sincerely,

                                               Dennis Townsend,
                                                               Chairman

                                     ______

    Submissions for the Record by Rep. Grijalva

                             The Wilderness Society

                                                       May 10, 2023

    Hon. Bruce Westerman, Chairman
    Hon. Raul Grijalva, Ranking Member
    House Committee on Natural Resources
    1324 Longworth House Office Building
    Washington, DC 20515

        Dear Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Grijalva, and Members of
    the Committee:

        On behalf of our more than one million members and supporters, The
    Wilderness Society (TWS) writes to express our views on H.R. 2989, the
    Save Our Sequoias Act, which is being heard before the Committee on May
    10, 2023. We respectfully request that this letter be included in the
    hearing record.
        TWS has many concerns with H.R. 2989, particularly with the
    proposed changes to the National Environmental Policy Act (NEPA), the
    Endangered Species Act (ESA), the National Historic Preservation Act
    (NHPA), the Wilderness Act of 1964, and administrative and judicial
    review.
        Section 6 of H.R. 2989 mandates that certain forest management
    activities be carried out as ``Protection Projects,'' which may then be
    implemented before conducting a NEPA analysis, an ESA consultation, or
    a NHPA consultation, thereby waiving the requirements of these three
    important statutes. Carrying out a project prior to initiating NEPA,
    ESA, or NHPA processes would make any subsequent implementation of
    those laws moot and would subvert the very purpose of ensuring
    environmental harm is minimized and mitigated before a project begins.
        Sections 6 and 7 further shortcut environmental reviews by
    exempting both Protection Projects and reforestation and rehabilitation
    activities from NEPA compliance by declaring that these projects are
    ``hereby designated as being categorically excluded from the
    preparation of an environmental assessment or an environmental impact
    statement'' under NEPA (Sec. 6(a)(4)(A)).
        H.R. 2989 excuses Section 6 Protection Projects from complying with
    the ESA's requirement to avoid harm to critical habitat by declaring
    that all Protection Projects are consistent with improving the health
    and resilience of critical habitat for threatened and endangered
    species (Sec. 6(a)(4)(C)(i)). TWS is concerned that the bill's
    subsequent requirement to use the ESA informal consultation process
    (Sec. 6(a)(4)(C)(ii)) is therefore contradicted and rendered
    meaningless by the bill's allowance for Section 6 Protection Projects
    to be implemented prior to initiating ESA consultation. Similar to our
    concerns around the NEPA provisions, the only way to avoid harm to
    critical habitat is to conduct these consultations before project
    implementation. The ESA consultation process is a vital safeguard for
    more than 400 listed species that are found in the National Forest
    System. Proper planning and management of these public lands offer the
    best opportunity for recovery of many of these imperiled species whose
    unique requirements for survival exist on federal lands.
        The bill would also limit judicial review of Section 6 Protection
    Projects by restricting choice of court venue, specifying the duration
    of preliminary injunctions, and constraining the court's ability to
    enjoin projects. In addition, the bill would eliminate agency oversight
    of Protection Projects by exempting them from the Forest Service's
    normal administrative objection process (Sec. 6(a)(2)(B & C)).
        During the 58 years since it was enacted, the Wilderness Act of
    1964 has remained essentially intact. H.R. 2989 would break that
    precedent by amending the Wilderness Act specifically to allow giant
    sequoia reforestation activities in designated wilderness areas burned
    by wildfires (Sec. 7(c)). It is neither necessary nor appropriate to
    amend the Wilderness Act to conduct giant sequoia reforestation work in
    wilderness areas. While managed reforestation in designated wilderness
    is not typical, the Wilderness Act does not prohibit reforestation
    activities as long as they comply with the Act's requirements,
    including its limitations on building roads and using motorized
    equipment or mechanical transport. The open-ended amendment proposed in
    Section 7 of H.R. 2989 potentially could sweep aside any limits on such
    activities in designated wilderness areas.
        The theme tying the above-mentioned provisions together seems to be
    a desire to expedite forest management work in the sequoia groves to
    increase resilience to uncharacteristic wildfire. While TWS greatly
    appreciates the wildfire threats these groves and much of our national
    forests have faced in recent years, weakening bedrock environmental
    laws and undermining our country's legal system are not the answers.
        Decades of fire suppression combined with the effects of climate
    change have put many of our public lands at risk from uncharacteristic
    wildfire. The U.S. Forest Service and other land management agencies
    have needed the resources to scale-up work in a way that can
    meaningfully deal with this threat. Thankfully, they received these
    resources with the passage of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs
    Act and the Inflation Reduction Act, and although these bills passed
    relatively recently, we have already seen the positive effects. In the
    sequoia groves alone, the Giant Sequoia Lands Coalition stated that in
    2022, they were able to more than double their annual goal of acres
    treated.\1\ All of this progress was achieved due to increased
    resources, not by weakening bedrock environmental laws.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        \1\ Heller, Marc. ``Giant sequoias better protected from fire,
    group says'' E&E News, December 15, 2022.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Furthermore, during budget hearings by both the Senate Energy and
    Natural Resources Committee and House Committee on Natural Resources,
    Subcommittee on Federal Lands (occurring on April 18 and April 26,
    respectively), U.S. Forest Service Chief Randy Moore stated that 85
    percent of all projects are completed using categorical exclusions
    (CEs), meaning the agency does not need to prepare an environmental
    impact statement or environmental assessment before implementing the
    project. This extraordinarily high percentage is further evidence that
    additional amendments to NEPA are unwarranted.
        Based on the information above, The Wilderness Society opposes the
    H.R. 2989, the Save Our Sequoias Act. Thank you for considering our
    views.

                Sincerely,

                                                   Lydia Weiss,
                                  Senior Director, Government Relations

                                   [all]