[House Hearing, 118 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]


                      REAUTHORIZING THE U.S. FIRE
                ADMINISTRATION AND FIRE GRANT PROGRAMS:
                      EVALUATING EFFECTIVENESS AND
                   PREPAREDNESS FOR MODERN CHALLENGES

=======================================================================

                                HEARING

                               BEFORE THE

                SUBCOMMITTEE ON RESEARCH AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                      COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE,
                             AND TECHNOLOGY

                                 OF THE

                        HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

                    ONE HUNDRED EIGHTEENTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                              MAY 11, 2023

                               __________

                           Serial No. 118-14

                               __________

  Printed for the use of the Committee on Science, Space, and Technology
  
  [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]


       Available via the World Wide Web: http://science.house.gov
       
                               __________

                   U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE                    
52-174 PDF                  WASHINGTON : 2024                    
          
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------        
 
              COMMITTEE ON SCIENCE, SPACE, AND TECHNOLOGY

                  HON. FRANK LUCAS, Oklahoma, Chairman
BILL POSEY, Florida                  ZOE LOFGREN, California, Ranking 
RANDY WEBER, Texas                       Member
BRIAN BABIN, Texas                   SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
JIM BAIRD, Indiana                   HALEY STEVENS, Michigan
DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida              JAMAAL BOWMAN, New York
MIKE GARCIA, California              DEBORAH ROSS, North Carolina
STEPHANIE BICE, Oklahoma             ERIC SORENSEN, Illinois
JAY OBERNOLTE, California            ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
CHUCK FLEISCHMANN, Tennessee         VALERIE FOUSHEE, North Carolina
DARRELL ISSA, California             KEVIN MULLIN, California
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas              JEFF JACKSON, North Carolina
CLAUDIA TENNEY, New York             EMILIA SYKES, Ohio
RYAN ZINKE, Montana                  MAXWELL FROST, Florida
SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida              YADIRA CARAVEO, Colorado
DALE STRONG, Alabama                 SUMMER LEE, Pennsylvania
MAX MILLER, Ohio                     JENNIFER McCLELLAN, Virginia
RICH McCORMICK, Georgia              TED LIEU, California
MIKE COLLINS, Georgia                SEAN CASTEN, Illinois,
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York             Vice Ranking Member
TOM KEAN, New Jersey                 PAUL TONKO, New York
VACANCY
                                 ------                                

                Subcommittee on Research and Technology

                  HON. MIKE COLLINS, Georgia, Chairman
JIM BAIRD, Indiana                   HALEY STEVENS, Michigan, 
DARRELL ISSA, California                 Ranking Member
RICK CRAWFORD, Arkansas              ANDREA SALINAS, Oregon
SCOTT FRANKLIN, Florida              KEVIN MULLIN, California
BRANDON WILLIAMS, New York           EMILIA SYKES, Ohio
TOM KEAN, New Jersey                 SUZANNE BONAMICI, Oregon
                         
                         
                         C  O  N  T  E  N  T  S

                              May 11, 2023

                                                                   Page

Hearing Charter..................................................     2

                           Opening Statements

Statement by Representative Mike Collins, Chairman, Subcommittee 
  on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, Space, and 
  Technology, U.S. House of Representatives......................     8
    Written Statement............................................     9

Statement by Representative Haley Stevens, Ranking Member, 
  Subcommittee on Research and Technology, Committee on Science, 
  Space, and Technology, U.S. House of Representatives...........    10
    Written Statement............................................    12

Statement by Representative Zoe Lofgren, Ranking Member, 
  Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, U.S. House of 
  Representatives................................................    13
    Written Statement............................................    14

                               Witnesses:

Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell, U.S. Fire Administrator, U.S. Fire 
  Administration
    Oral Statement...............................................    16
    Written Statement............................................    18

Chief Donna Black, President, International Association of Fire 
  Chiefs
    Oral Statement...............................................    25
    Written Statement............................................    27

Mr. Kevin B. O'Connor, Assistant to the General President, 
  International Association of Fire Fighters
    Oral Statement...............................................    34
    Written Statement............................................    36

Mr. David Bullard, Georgia Director, National Volunteer Fire 
  Council
    Oral Statement...............................................    47
    Written Statement............................................    49

Mr. Kevin Reardon, State Fire Marshall, State of Ohio
    Oral Statement...............................................    58
    Written Statement............................................    60

Discussion.......................................................    65

 
                          REAUTHORIZING THE U.S. FIRE
                     ADMINISTRATION AND FIRE GRANT PROGRAMS: 
                          EVALUATING EFFECTIVENESS AND 
                     PREPAREDNESS FOR MODERN CHALLENGES

                              ----------                              


                         THURSDAY, MAY 11, 2023

                  House of Representatives,
           Subcommittee on Research and Technology,
               Committee on Science, Space, and Technology,
                                                   Washington, D.C.

    The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:01 p.m., in 
room 2325, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Mike Collins 
[Chairman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]

    Chairman Collins. All right. So the Subcommittee on 
Research and Technology will come to order. I'd like to remind 
the witnesses that when you're not speaking, if you would just 
turn off your mic.
    So without objection, the Chair is authorized to declare 
recess of the Subcommittee at any time.
    Welcome to today's hearing entitled ``Reauthorizing the 
U.S. Fire Administration (USFA) and Fire Grant Programs: 
Evaluating Effectiveness and Preparedness for Modern 
Challenges.''
    I'm going to recognize myself for 5 minutes for an opening 
statement.
    Good afternoon, and welcome to our witnesses who have 
joined us here today. Before I begin my remarks, I want to take 
a moment to thank our witnesses and those in the room who have 
served as firefighters or in other first responders' roles. 
Firefighting is dangerous, and too many firefighters lose their 
lives each year. My home State of Georgia lost one of its own 
in March when firefighter Matthew Brian Smith of Bartow County 
Fire and Emergency Service passed away due to complications 
from a medical incident during a search-and-rescue training 
exercise. This tragedy is a somber reminder of the dangers 
firefighters face even when not responding to an active call. 
It is my hope the work we do here in Congress and the things 
that we discuss today will lead to fewer deaths in the future.
    We have convened this hearing to discuss the United States 
Fire Administration, the research it conducts and the programs 
it administers. Originally part of the Department of Congress, 
the U.S.--Commerce--the U.S. Fire Administration was founded 
through the Federal Fire Prevention and Control Act of 1974. 
Now it's housed within the Federal Emergency Management Agency 
(FEMA) at the Department of Homeland Security. The Fire 
Administration plays an essential role in our Nation's fire 
prevention efforts.
    For example, the Fire Administration collects, organizes, 
and publishes statistics on fire incidents nationwide through 
the National Fire Incident Reporting System (NFIRS) at the 
National Fire Data Center. The Administration promotes 
awareness of fire prevention through partnerships and special 
incentives. It maintains and operates the National Emergency 
Training Center in Maryland where thousands of firefighters and 
first responders have trained over the last 50 years.
    The Fire Administration also runs two popular grant 
programs, the Assistance to Firefighters, or AFG program, and 
the Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response, or SAFER 
program. The Assistance to Firefighters program supports local 
emergency responders by providing direct assistance for 
training, equipment, facility upgrades, vehicle acquisition, 
and other critical needs. The SAFER program helps fire 
departments and firefighter support organizations hire and 
retain capable firefighters. Together, these programs have led 
to billions of dollars in investments in local fire readiness 
by increasing the number of service-ready firefighters and 
providing equipment to urban, suburban, and rural fire 
departments across America.
    The Fire Administration doesn't just invest in local 
departments, though. It also funds and conducts critical 
research on fire prevention. Improving the fire safety of the 
things we use, the buildings we enter, the vehicles we drive 
means fewer fire-related deaths and less property damage every 
year. This critical function of the Fire Administration means 
there are fewer fire incidences, and they are more manageable 
when they do happen. Minimizing the size and frequency of fire 
incidents is the most cost-effective way to protect 
firefighters and reduce the cost of operating fire departments.
    Supporting our firefighters and first responders has never 
been more essential than it is today. During COVID lockdowns, 
firefighters and other frontline workers carried the weight of 
a nation in crisis. Emergency services never stopped during 
lockdowns thanks to every brave man and woman who showed up 
every day to put their lives on the line.
    Unfortunately, the effects of the pandemic have led 
thousands of firefighters, both career and volunteer, to exit 
the service. This has left many departments understaffed, and 
new recruits are not signing up fast enough to replace those 
exiting the service.
    The witnesses with us today will be the first to tell you 
that firefighting is more than a profession. It's a passion 
that has often passed from parent to child through the 
generations. The U.S. Fire Administration has a role in 
restoring that passion and prestige to the service. The U.S. 
Fire Administration is a trusted institution of the fire 
community, and its leadership will be needed to identify and 
address modern challenges facing America's firefighters.
    However, with more than 29,000 fire departments across the 
United States, the Federal Government, which is already 
trillions of dollars in debt, does not have the resources to 
fund every aspect of fire prevention. The Fire Administration 
has and should continue to act as a force multiplier for fire 
departments by providing high-quality and accessible training 
services through the Fire Academy. The AFG and SAFER programs 
should be thoroughly examined to identify where these limited 
Federal resources can have the biggest impact, and Congress 
must think critically about how to best support the fire 
prevention community long into the future.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues and the 
witnesses here today to identify the most pressing issues 
facing the fire services and supporting the men and women who 
keep this essential service operating across America.
    [The prepared statement of Chairman Collins follows:]

    Good afternoon, and welcome to our witnesses who have 
joined us here today.
    Before I begin my remarks, I want to take a moment to thank 
our witnesses and those in the room who have served as 
firefighters or in other first responder roles.
    Firefighting is dangerous, and too many firefighters lose 
their lives each year.
    My home state of Georgia lost one of its own in March when 
firefighter Matthew Brian Smith of the Bartow County Fire and 
Emergency Service passed away due to complications from a 
medical incident during a search and rescue training exercise.
    This tragedy is a somber reminder of the dangers 
firefighters face, even when not responding to an active call.
    It is my hope that the work we do here in Congress and the 
things we discuss today will lead to fewer deaths in the 
future.
    We have convened this hearing to discuss the United States 
Fire Administration, the research it conducts, and the programs 
it administers.
    Originally part of the Department of Commerce, the U.S. 
Fire Administration was founded through the Federal Fire 
Prevention and Control Act of 1974.
    Now housed within the Federal Emergency Management Agency 
at the Department of Homeland Security, the Fire Administration 
plays an essential role in our nation's fire prevention 
efforts.
    For example, the Fire Administration collects, organizes, 
and publishes statistics on fire incidents nationwide through 
the National Fire Incident Reporting System at the National 
Fire Data Center.
    The Administration promotes awareness of fire prevention 
through partnerships and special initiatives.
    It maintains and operates the National Emergency Training 
Center in Maryland, where thousands of firefighters and first 
responders have trained over the last fifty years.
    The Fire Administration also runs two popular grant 
programs, The Assistance to Firefighters--or AFG--program and 
the Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response--or 
SAFER--program.
    The Assistance to Firefighters Program supports local 
emergency responders by providing direct assistance for 
training, equipment, facilities upgrades, vehicle acquisition, 
and other critical needs.
    The SAFER Program helps fire departments and firefighter 
support organizations hire and retain capable firefighters.
    Together, these programs have led to billions of dollars of 
investments in local fire readiness by increasing the number of 
service-ready firefighters and providing equipment to urban, 
suburban, and rural fire departments across America.
    The Fire Administration doesn't just invest in local 
departments, though. It also funds and conducts critical 
research on fire prevention.
    Improving the fire-safety of the things we use, the 
buildings we enter, and the vehicles we drive means fewer fire-
related deaths and less property damage every year.
    This critical function of the Fire Administration means 
there are fewer fire incidents, and they are more manageable 
when they do happen.
    Minimizing the size and frequency of fire incidents is the 
most cost-effective way to protect firefighters and reduce the 
costs of operating fire departments.
    Supporting our firefighters and first responders has never 
been more essential than it is today.
    During COVID lockdowns, firefighters and other front-line 
workers carried the weight of a nation in crisis.
    Emergency services never stopped during lockdowns thanks to 
the brave men and women who showed up every day to put their 
lives on the line.
    Unfortunately, the effects of the pandemic have led 
thousands of firefighters, both career and volunteer, to exit 
the service.
    This has left many departments understaffed, and new 
recruits are not signing up fast enough to replace those 
exiting the service.
    The witnesses with us today will be the first to tell you 
that firefighting is more than a profession--it's a passion 
that has often passed from parent to child through the 
generations.
    The U.S. Fire Administration has a role in restoring that 
passion and prestige to the service.
    The U.S. Fire Administration is a trusted institution of 
the fire community, and its leadership will be needed to 
identify and address modern challenges facing America's 
firefighters.
    However, with more than 29,000 fire departments across the 
United States, the Federal Government, which is already 
trillions of dollars in debt, does not have the resources to 
fund every aspect of fire prevention.
    The Fire Administration has, and should continue to, act as 
a force multiplier for fire departments by providing high 
quality and accessible training services through the Fire 
Academy.
    The AFG and SAFER programs should be thoroughly examined to 
identify where these limited Federal resources can have the 
biggest impact.
    And Congress must think critically about how to best 
support the fire prevention community long into the future.
    I look forward to working with my colleagues and the 
witnesses here today to identify the most pressing issues 
facing the fire services and supporting the men and women who 
keep this essential service operating across America.

    Chairman Collins. I now recognize the Ranking Member, the 
gentlewoman from Michigan, for an opening statement.
    Ms. Stevens. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. 
Collins, for holding this important hearing today on 
reauthorizing the U.S. Fire Administration and fire grant 
programs, evaluating the effectiveness and preparedness for 
modern challenges.
    Look, although fire loss has improved significantly over 
the past 25 years, the fire problem in the United States 
remains serious. The United States still has one of the highest 
fire death rates in the industrialized world, and it is clear 
that we still have work to do to prevent these fires and their 
deadly consequences.
    It's also been a particularly bad year for fires in my home 
State of Michigan. According to the Michigan Fire Inspector 
Society, home fires have been up significantly. We measure this 
year over year, the increase, and only 5 months into 2023, the 
State of Michigan has experienced an increase of 11 percent in 
fires compared with this time of the year in the last 5-year 
average.
    And so while incidences are up in homes, there also have 
been several notable fires at businesses across metro Detroit 
that I have been tracking over the last handful of years, and 
one that I would like to highlight in my home district is a 
fire that burned down, or nearly burned down the Oakland Hills 
Country Club, a fixture that had been in the community for 
generations, a place where I worked when I was in high school, 
a 99-year-old clubhouse, which was one of the oldest all-wooden 
structures in Michigan just caught on fire. And the fire crews 
from several cities worked together, came together that day--it 
was a snowy day in Michigan--for over 24 hours to fully 
extinguish--to extinguish the blaze. And to this day, we can 
all be extremely thankful that no one was injured. And I want 
to thank our hometown heroes from the Bloomfield Hills Township 
Fire Department, and particularly Fire Chief John LeRoy.
    And before continuing, I also want to recognize the fire 
service professionals in the room with us here today. Our 
firefighters and our first responders are truly some of the 
bravest among us. I have put on your gear. It is heavy. It is 
tough work, and you deserve our debt of gratitude for 
fearlessly protecting our homes, our businesses, schools, and 
families from catastrophe. First responders save lives while 
risking their own each and every day, and our fire service 
professionals deserve adequate and reliable support from 
Congress, across the Congress, and here today, especially in 
this Committee, as we evaluate your needs. Thank you for 
representing the backbone of our communities.
    And we're also here today to discuss the need for 
reauthorization of the Fire Administration, or USFA, and the 
grant programs known as Assistance to Firefighters Grant 
programs, or AFG, and the Staffing for Adequate Fire and 
Emergency Response grant program, or SAFER, something, you 
know, I hear from my fire departments frequently when out 
visiting and spending time with them, SAFER grants, very 
important, AFG grants, very important.
    And as I've hosted grant workshops throughout my district, 
our firefighter professionals, they show up because they are so 
eager to get access to these dollars, and we've seen firsthand 
how SAFER and AFG grants make the difference in our fire 
departments, make the difference with the equipment that you're 
utilizing, and on.
    And last year, we're very pleased that the Empowering U.S. 
Fire Administration Act introduced by Mr. Ritchie Torres not 
only passed the House, passed the Senate, and was signed. And I 
know Ms. Moore-Merrell is nodding her head because that 
utilizes the power of the U.S. Fire Administration to 
investigate these fires like what happened in Michigan at 
Oakland Hills.
    Under the Fiscal Year (FY) 2024 Presidential budget 
request, USFA would receive a much-needed but still 
insignificant--or insufficient budget increase of 3.5 percent. 
The AFG and SAFER grant programs would each receive a budget 
increase of $10 million. It still falls below the funding 
levels required for these programs to realize their full 
potential, and I really want to encourage my colleagues to 
continue to support authorization levels that reflect the 
demand for these programs and their lifesaving impact on the 
ground.
    As the Ranking Member of the Research and Technology 
Subcommittee, I'm also very eager to hear more about the fire 
community's priorities for research and development. Where do 
you need technology investment? Where are we falling short? 
Where should we be looking to invest? The fire community is on 
the brink of significant advancements in technology protocol 
and certainly workforce protection.
    I believe one of the most urgent needs is to advance the 
establishment of a comprehensive firefighter cancer strategy 
that invests in research and eliminates PFAS exposure on the 
job. The development of PFAS-free alternatives for protective 
fire gear is critical to protect firefighters from long-term 
health impacts such as cancer. NIST (National Institute of 
Standards and Technology) just released an important analysis 
of PFAS in turnout gear. I'd like to hear more about USFA's 
role to research and develop alternative textiles.
    In addition, USFA is requesting additional funds to help 
implement a next-generation data system that will modernize and 
advance predictive analytics and risk measurement capabilities 
to enhance the Fire Service's ability to prevent and respond to 
emergencies.
    Thank you all so much for being here today and helping us 
understand how Congress can better support you and effectively 
protect our communities.
    I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Stevens follows:]

    Thank you, Chairman Collins, for holding this important 
hearing.
    Although fire loss has improved significantly over the past 
25 years, the fire problem in the United States remains 
serious. The United States still has one of the highest fire 
death rates in the industrialized world. It is clear we still 
have work to do to prevent these fires and their deadly 
consequences.
    It's been a particularly bad year for home fires in my own 
state of Michigan. According to the Michigan Fire Inspectors 
Society, home fires have been up significantly. It's only 5 
months into 2023, and Michigan has already experienced an 11% 
increase in fires compared with this time of the year in the 
last 5-year average.
    While incidents are up in homes, there also have been 
several notable fires at businesses across metro Detroit in the 
past few years. My own district experienced a fire that burned 
down the Oakland Hills Country Club--a fixture that had been in 
the community for generations. The 99-year-old clubhouse was 
one of the oldest all-wooden structures in Michigan and was 
where I worked as a hostess the summer after high school to 
save up money for college. Fire crews from several cities 
worked together for over 24 hours to fully extinguish the 
blaze. To this day, I am extremely thankful that no one was 
injured.
    Before continuing, I do want to recognize the fire service 
professionals in the room today. Our firefighters and first 
responders are some of the bravest among us--fearlessly 
protecting our homes, businesses, schools, and families from 
catastrophe. First responders save lives while risking their 
own, each and every day. Our fire service professionals deserve 
adequate and reliable support from Congress. You all represent 
the backbone of our communities and I want to thank you and 
your families for your service.
    We are here today to discuss the need for reauthorization 
of the U.S. Fire Administration, or USFA, and the grant 
programs known as Assistance to Firefighters Grant Program, or 
AFG, and the Staffing for Adequate Fire and Emergency Response 
Grant Program, or SAFER. I am proud to report that when I host 
grant workshops for community members in my District, our local 
fire departments are often the most engaged in the discussions. 
And I have seen firsthand the impact of the SAFER and AFG 
grants.
    The U.S. fire service at large plays a critical role in 
protecting the health and safety of our citizens, communities, 
and critical infrastructure. The USFA and associated grant 
programs are critical pieces of that puzzle. Under the fiscal 
year 2024 Presidential Budget Request, USFA would receive a 
much needed, but still insufficient, budget increase of 3.5 
percent. The AFG and SAFER grant programs would each receive a 
budget increase of 10 million dollars. This still falls far 
below the funding levels required for these programs to realize 
their full potential. I encourage my colleagues to continue to 
support authorization levels that reflect the demand for these 
programs and their lifesaving impact on the ground.
    As the Ranking Member of the Research & Technology 
subcommittee, I am eager to hear more about the fire 
community's priorities for research and development. The fire 
community is on the brink of significant advancements in 
technology, protocol, and workforce protection. I believe one 
of the most urgent is the establishment of a comprehensive fire 
fighter cancer strategy that invests in research and eliminates 
PFAS exposure on the job. The development of PFAS-free 
alternatives for protective gear is critical to protect 
firefighters from long-term health impacts such as cancer. NIST 
just released an important analysis of PFAS in turnout gear. 
I'd like to hear more about USFA's role in research to develop 
alternative textiles. In addition, USFA is requesting 
additional funds to help implement a next generation data 
system that will modernize and advance predictive analytics and 
risk measurement capabilities to enhance the fire service's 
ability to prevent and respond to emergencies. I look forward 
to learning more about fire-related technology gaps keeping us 
from getting closer to zero fire-related deaths.Thank you again 
for being here today and sharing how Congress can provide the 
support you need to effectively protect our first responders 
and our communities.
    Thank you. I yield back.

    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Ms. Stevens.
    I now recognize the Ranking Member of the Full Committee 
from California, Ms. Lofgren, for a statement.
    Ms. Lofgren. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I think 
this hearing is very timely. I'm looking forward to hearing the 
witnesses.
    You know, we have returned to a post-COVID world. 
Obviously, people are still getting COVID, but the pandemic has 
been declared over. Yet, the impact of that epidemic has left 
us reeling in some cases, and when it comes to firefighters, 
you know, we asked you to do a lot. You do emergency response, 
but during the pandemic, you also exposed yourself to deadly 
disease. You were acting as healthcare providers in many cases. 
You know, we provided $100 million in the CARES Act for 
supplemental funding to the Assistance for Firefighters Grant, 
or AFG. Now, the House also passed the Heroes Act, which 
proposed an additional amount of funding for the AFG program 
and its partner program, the SAFER program. However, the Senate 
failed to act, a big disappointment to us.
    Now, in part due to this inaction, we've seen a lot of 
firefighters retire in large numbers and relatively few 
stepping forward to take their place. In my home State of 
California between 2019 and 2021 the U.S. Forest Service--
obviously, the Federal Government's primary wildfire agency--
lost more than 1,000 firefighters. This represents 20 percent 
of the agency's firefighting forces in the State. And officials 
with the Forest Service said the pandemic, as well as 
firefighter burnout, which is connected to the pandemic, 
contributed to that whole retirement scene.
    Demands on the fire service are increasing. In California, 
we've seen huge wildfires, unprecedented wildfires, and our 
firefighters are stepping forward to protect property and 
lives. We thank you for that. We need also to support crucial 
scientific research to better predict and prepare for wildfires 
and to support State and local governments that have faced in 
some cases repeated wildfires, as well as other disasters. Now, 
we passed a bill to deal with that. Again, unfortunately, the 
Senate has failed to act. I'm hoping that this Congress we can 
rise to the challenge and get our Nation's firefighters the 
resources that they need to do their jobs and to support our 
State and local officials in the fight against wildfires. 
Congress just has to reauthorize the U.S. Fire Administration 
and the AFG and the SAFER programs to train more firefighters, 
modernize the data systems used to track and respond to fire 
emergencies, and many others.
    I remember a time in my own city of San Jose where we had 
had a shortfall. We were going to have to lay off firefighters 
when we had huge needs, and thank goodness for the 
administrators in the SAFER program. We were able to avoid 
those layoffs, and those firefighters continued to do their job 
protecting the public, and I am grateful for that, as are the 
citizens of San Jose and the firefighters themselves.
    I look forward to today's discussion on reauthorizing these 
bills and how Congress can help ensure that the brave men and 
women who really stepped forward to protect us all can get the 
support that's concrete. You all know that we support you 
morally. Let's make sure that the concrete support that you 
need is also provided.
    And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Lofgren follows:]

    Thank you, Chairman Collins and Ranking Member Stevens, for 
holding today's hearing. And thank you to our witnesses for 
being here today.
    While many aspects of our daily lives have returned to 
normal, the COVID-19 pandemic has taken a heavy toll on our 
first responders, especially our firefighters. During the 
public health crisis, we relied more than ever on our nation's 
fire service to provide emergency medical response. We asked 
firefighters to be healthcare workers and risk their own 
exposure to a deadly disease, often with limited access to 
personal protective equipment.
    Congress initially provided $100 million in the CARES Act 
for supplemental funding to the Assistance to Firefighters 
Grant, or AFG. The House also passed the Heroes Act, which 
proposed an additional $1 billion in supplemental funding for 
the AFG program and its partner program, the Staffing for 
Adequate Fire and Emergency Response, or SAFER program. 
However, the Senate failed to act.
    In part due to this inaction, we have seen many 
firefighters retire in large numbers during the pandemic and 
relatively few rise to fill their roles. In my home state of 
California, between 2019 and 2021, the U.S.
    Forest Service, which is the federal government's primary 
wildfire agency, lost more than 1000 firefighters. This number 
represents 20 percent of the agency's firefighting force in 
California. Officials with the Forest Service said the pandemic 
and firefighter burnout both contributed to this workforce 
shortage.
    Demands on our fire service have only continued to 
increase. I have seen firsthand how increasingly dangerous 
wildfires threaten the health and safety of communities across 
California. Last year, I worked to pass four bills out of the 
House that would make sure federal firefighters get the 
overtime they deserve, improve FEMA's response to wildfires, 
support crucial scientific research to better predict and 
prepare for wildfires, and support state and local governments 
that have faced repeat wildfires and other disasters. 
Unfortunately, the Senate again failed to act.
    It is my hope that Congress can rise to the challenge this 
year to get our nation's firefighters the resources they need 
to do their jobs and to support our state and local officials 
in the fight against wildfires. Congress must reauthorize the 
U.S. Fire Administration and the AFG and SAFER programs to 
train more firefighters and modernize our data systems used to 
track and respond to fire emergencies.
    Congress must pass legislation to enact a whole-of-
government response to increasingly severe and destructive 
wildfires. Congress must act, because failure to do so will put 
the lives and property of millions of Americans at risk.
    I look forward to today's discussion on reauthorizing the 
U.S. Fire Administration and fire grant programs, and how 
Congress can help ensure the brave women and men of our 
Nation's fire service have the resources they need.
    I yield back.

    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Ms. Lofgren.
    I am going to take a few minutes and I'll just take the 
opportunity to introduce our witnesses today. Our first witness 
today is Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell, Fire Administrator of the U.S. 
Fire Administration. Dr. Moore-Merrell was appointed as Fire 
Administrator on October 25, 2021, and prior to her 
appointment, she served as President and CEO (Chief Executive 
Officer) of the International Public Safety Data Institute. She 
was also a long-serving senior executive in the International 
Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF). Dr. Moore-Merrell began 
her Fire Service career as a fire department paramedic in the 
city of Memphis Fire Department. Dr. Moore-Merrell holds a 
doctor of public health and quality performance metrics from 
the George Washington University Milken Institute's School of 
Public Health.
    Our next witness is Chief Donna Black, President of the 
International Association of Fire Chiefs (IAFC). Chief Black 
began her service as a volunteer working her way through the 
ranks as both a volunteer and career firefighter before being 
selected as the Fire Chief of Duck, North Carolina, in 2006. 
Chief Black also holds a bachelor of science from Ithaca 
College and a master of arts from the University of Georgia, 
and you know I'm going to say it, go Dawgs. Chief Black was 
selected as President of the International Association of Fire 
Chiefs in August of last year.
    Next, we have Mr. Kevin O'Connor, Assistant to the General 
President, International Association of Fire Fighters. Mr. 
O'Connor is a longtime advocate for firefighters. He has led 
the International Association of Fire Fighters' government 
affairs and public policy efforts for nearly two decades. Kevin 
is currently serving as a Fire Commissioner on the Baltimore 
Board of Fire Commissioners.
    Our next witness is Mr. David Bullard, volunteer 
firefighter and Georgia Director for the National Volunteer 
Fire Council (NVFC). Mr. Bullard began his fire service in 1998 
at Leah, North Carolina--North Columbia, I'm sorry, Fire 
Rescue. David currently serves as a Lieutenant on the Columbia 
County Fire Rescue in Martinez, Georgia. He also serves on the 
Board of Directors of the Georgia State Firefighters 
Association and the Board of Trustees of the Georgia 
Firefighters Pension Fund.
    And our last witness we have Mr. Kevin Reardon, who my 
colleague, Miss Sykes, would like to introduce. So I now 
recognize Miss Sykes to introduce Mr. Reardon.
    Mrs. Sykes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    And I am honored to welcome and introduce Mr. Kevin 
Reardon, who is the Fire Marshal for the great State of Ohio. 
He became our State's 39th Fire Marshal upon his appointment in 
June 2020. Mr. Marshal is no stranger to the Hill because he 
served our State as a staffer to then-Senator DeWine for a 
decade and as a firefighter with the Columbus Division of Fire 
for 30 years. Mr. Chairman, I think I speak for all of us when 
I say we are grateful to have someone with his experience here. 
He was so good of a staffer to Senator DeWine, he appointed him 
as the Fire Marshal for the State, so I am sure that not only 
is commitment and loyalty a part of his service, and we are 
grateful to have his expertise here. Thank you for advocating 
for firefighters across the State of Ohio and across the 
Nation.
    Thank you, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
    Chairman Collins. With that, I now recognize Dr. Moore-
Merrell for 5 minutes to present her testimony.

              TESTIMONY OF DR. LORI MOORE-MERRELL,

       U.S. FIRE ADMINISTRATOR, U.S. FIRE ADMINISTRATION

    Dr. Moore-Merrell. This is coming on--there we are. 
Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Stevens, and Ms. Lofgren, I 
first must compliment the well-informed opening statements. 
Thank you all for that. And the Members of the Subcommittee, my 
name is Lori Moore-Merrell, and I serve as the Administrator of 
the United States Fire Administration and within the Federal 
Emergency Management Agency. I thank you all for this 
opportunity to testify today and to discuss the USFA's evolving 
role within the firefighting and emergency management 
community.
    The USFA's mission is to support and strengthen fire and 
emergency medical services (EMS) to prevent, mitigate, prepare 
for, and respond to all hazards. Since 1974, the USFA has led 
national efforts to reduce the impact of fire and other 
disasters on our communities through education, building codes 
and standards, fire safety advocacy, and grants. Yet there is 
still much to be done.
    As millions of Americans have sadly witnessed firsthand, 
fire continues to pose a substantial risk across the United 
States. On average, there are more than 1.2 million structure 
fires, nearly 3,000 deaths, thousands of injuries, and scores 
of individuals displaced annually due to fire. And although 
disasters such as fires can affect everyone, we know they can 
also exacerbate preexisting challenges across the country. 
These impacts and--are further compounded by our changing 
climate, which is making disasters such as wildfires much more 
common, more intense, and more destructive.
    These challenges pose heightened risk to the public and to 
first responders who safeguard our communities, and the 
challenge to our communities continue to evolve. Consider that 
1/3 of the U.S. population currently lives within the expanding 
wildland-urban interface environment, also known as the WUI. 
This is not the wildland. It is forested areas that have been 
cleared, and they are still fire-prone. These communities are 
unfortunately often built without adequate attention to the WUI 
building codes and consideration for ignition-resistant 
building materials. That means that when wildfires occur and 
reach the populated areas, they spread quickly and can be 
devastating. However, despite the challenges such as these, 
only five States and 200 jurisdictions in 24 States have 
adopted the WUI building codes.
    An overlapping challenge facing our communities is that 
fire departments across the United States, both career and 
volunteer, are experiencing recruitment and retention 
challenges, and therefore, personnel shortages. Firefighting is 
amongst the most hazardous professions. Both fire and EMS 
responders are routinely exposed to incidents involving 
devastating injuries and tragic loss of life and property. Our 
first responders face challenges that can have both physical 
and psychological impact. Finding ways to support their health 
and well-being and bolster our recruitment will be a critical 
component to our ability to meet the evolving challenges.
    One of the ways in which FEMA helps firefighters and 
communities to meet these challenges is through our grant 
programs. For example, as you've noted, the Staffing for 
Adequate Fire and Emergency Response grant program is helping 
to address the shortages across the country as it provides 
funding directly to our fire departments and volunteer 
firefighter organizations to increase the number of 
firefighters in the country.
    Another tool to help the firefighting community meet the 
evolving challenges is the Assistance to Firefighters Grants 
program. These grants can be used to enhance a fire 
department's capability to protect the health and safety of our 
firefighters and the public and to support the research needs 
to bolster these efforts. The AFG program also includes the 
Fire Prevention and Safety Grants (FP&S), which seek to reduce 
the injury and prevent death among high-risk populations.
    I would like to thank our congressional partners for their 
past support for these programs which help provide firefighting 
and community with the tools they need to save lives.
    As we look to the future, the USFA is seeking ways to 
address the evolving challenges and important element of this 
progression is the USFA's ability to collect and analyze and 
report relevant information in a timely manner. The USFA is 
redesigning the National Fire Incident Reporting System to 
develop a modern cloud-based data-capture system and streamline 
the data standard for interoperability and maximum efficiency. 
This platform will be known as the National Emergency Response 
Information System, or NERIS, and will ensure that USFA and the 
fire service at large will have access to secure, 
interoperable, live data services that contain the outputs of 
the most authoritative data sources, local fire departments, 
and public officials. Along with our data scientists and 
researchers, we'll be able to leverage this data platform to 
conduct research, disseminate reports, and inform 
decisionmakers at all levels of government. This information 
will help get the right emergency resources to the right risk 
events in the right timeframe.
    As we prepare for the challenges ahead such as those posed 
by increasing risk of climate change-driven wildfires and the 
continuing struggle we have with structure fires in this 
Nation, the USFA looks forward to working with both our 
firefighting partners and the Members of this Committee to 
build a more resilient nation. And I want to thank you for the 
opportunity to address this Committee this afternoon.
    [The prepared statement of Dr. Moore-Merrell follows:]
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    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Doctor.
    I now recognize Chief Donna Black for 5 minutes to present 
her testimony.

                TESTIMONY OF CHIEF DONNA BLACK,

      PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE CHIEFS

    Chief Black. Good afternoon. Chairman Collins, Ranking 
Member Stevens, Ms. Lofgren, and Members of the Subcommittee, I 
am Chief Donna Black, the Fire Chief of the Duck, North 
Carolina Fire Department, and the President and Board Chair of 
the International Association of Fire Chiefs. On behalf of the 
more than 11,000 members of the IFC, I thank you for the 
opportunity to discuss the importance of the AFG and SAFER 
grant programs in the U.S. Fire Administration.
    Your local fire department is the community's all-hazards 
response force. Besides structural fires, many fire departments 
also respond to emergencies involving EMS, hazardous materials 
response, urban search and rescue, and technical rescue. During 
the COVID-19 pandemic, firefighters provided EMS response to 
patients, administered tests to their communities, and staffed 
and managed vaccination centers. As the national public health 
emergency ends, it is important to recognize the 307 fire and 
94 EMS personnel who succumbed to COVID-19.
    Even as the pandemic ends, the fire and emergency service 
faces a new set of challenges. The Nation's wildland fire 
problem continues to threaten more communities across the whole 
Nation. The greater use of lithium batteries has increased the 
risks of fires in homes. In addition, fire and EMS departments 
continue to respond to the tragic multi-casualty active shooter 
incidents that occur in our Nation.
    It's important to recognize that the national fire problem 
presents a challenge, too. According to the NFPA (National Fire 
Protection Association), the number of civilian deaths in fires 
rose by 8.5 percent between 2020 and 2021. In fact, the rate of 
deaths in home fires in 2021 was higher than the home fire 
death rate in 1980.
    The Federal Government has long been a longtime partner in 
the national effort to reduce fire deaths and property loss. In 
response to the ``America Burning'' report, the U.S. Fire 
Administration was created in 1974. USFA now provides 
leadership and fire prevention campaigns and information about 
emerging issues. It also hosts the Nation's premier fire 
education center, the National Fire Academy. NFA provides 
education to develop fire service leaders to more than 100,000 
students per year.
    The Federal Government also supports FEMA's AFG and SAFER 
grant programs. These programs provide matching grants directly 
to local fire departments using a merit-based peer-review 
process. The AFG program funds equipment and training for fire 
departments. Its Fire Prevention and Safety Grant programs 
research to prevent the loss of life and property due to fire. 
It also funds public fire prevention campaigns. The SAFER grant 
programs help fund career firefighters for 3 years. It also 
funds recruitment and retention programs to help volunteer fire 
departments maintain their staffing.
    As a longtime member of the volunteer fire service, I would 
like to highlight their challenges. Approximately 70 percent of 
firefighters are volunteers. Volunteer fire departments still 
rely upon fundraiser like bingo, fish dinners, and pancake 
breakfasts to fund their operations. The AFG and SAFER programs 
provide lifelines to these fire departments.
    For example, career, combination, and volunteer fire 
departments face trouble recruiting members in the wake of the 
COVID-19 pandemic. The IFC received a SAFER recruitment and 
retention grant to address this problem. Using this grant, the 
IFC trained more than 1,000 volunteer fire service leaders 
online and in person to improve recruitment of a more diverse 
fire service.
    The AFG program also can be used to address emerging 
challenges. For example, the IFC received an FP&S grant to help 
more than 250 at-risk communities prepare for wildland fires 
and educate their citizens about protecting their homes. It 
also created a fire department exchange program for fire 
departments to share ideas on addressing the wildland fire 
problem. The IFC thanks the Committee for starting work on 
legislation to reauthorize the AFG and SAFER grant programs and 
the USFA.
    The IAFC recommends that the Committee authorize the AFG 
and SAFER programs through FY 2030 to ensure long-term funding 
for these programs, authorize the USFA through FY 2030 so that 
it can continue to provide transformative education to the fire 
and emergency service, increase the USFA's authorization to $95 
million per year to fund the new cloud-based real-time data 
system that Dr. Moore-Merrell proposed. This funding also will 
support the examination of major fires as Congress authorized 
last year, Extend the sunset date for the AFG and SAFER grants 
to September 30, 2032, to protect them. It is important to get 
future Congresses time to reauthorize the programs without 
sunsetting them.
    I thank the Subcommittee for your time today. As the fire 
and emergency service faces new challenges, we are grateful for 
Congress' continued assistance. The AFG and SAFER programs help 
fire departments protect their communities from all hazards 
while the USFA provides critical education and policy 
leadership. We look forward to working with you to protect 
these important programs, and I look forward to answering any 
questions that you may have. Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Chief Black follows:]
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    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Chief.
    I now recognize Mr. Kevin O'Connor for 5 minutes to present 
his testimony.

              TESTIMONY OF MR. KEVIN B. O'CONNOR,

              ASSISTANT TO THE GENERAL PRESIDENT,

           INTERNATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF FIRE FIGHTERS

    Mr. O'Connor. Thank you very much. I appreciate it, 
Chairman Collins, Ranking Member Stevens, distinguished Members 
of the Subcommittee. I'm Kevin O'Connor, and it's my honor to 
be here today representing the International Association of 
Fire Fighters, our General President Ed Kelly, and the 335,000 
firefighters, officers, and paramedics who comprise our 
organization. We're very proud to protect communities in all 
435 congressional districts across the Nation.
    My written testimony has been provided.
    It's literally impossible to describe the dramatic impact 
these two programs have had on the American fire service, and 
it's equally as impossible to fathom our industry functioning 
without them or the vital resources they provide. This issue is 
deeply personal to me. I lobbied the original legislation 
beginning in the mid-1990's when it was still called the FIRE 
Act. At that point, the founder of the congressional Fire 
Caucus, Curt Weldon, teamed up with his colleague Bill Pascrell 
to conceive this original idea.
    As someone who served as both a volunteer and career 
firefighter, I understood even back then that our local 
resources were woefully inadequate. As a result, pressing needs 
like PPE (personal protective equipment), apparatus, and 
training were often neglected. AFG was the Federal Government's 
first acknowledgement that it had a duty to partner with the 
fire service to ensure public safety and emergency response, as 
it had done for law enforcement, public health, and education 
over many years.
    The tenacity of the fire service and our congressional 
partners paid off. During the 106th session in which the 
original legislation was passed, over 270 bipartisan co-
sponsors were amassed for the legislation. Money finally 
started to flow to purchase equipment and other needs. Three 
years later, recognizing a national staffing shortage on the 
career side and a major recruitment retention problem for the 
volunteers, Congress authorized SAFER to address those 
shortfalls.
    The complimentary AFG-SAFER programs have been a source of 
bipartisan, bicameral cooperation in Congress in these 
intervening years. They have also drawn all the diverse 
components of the fire service together, career and volunteer, 
management and labor on every reauthorization over the last two 
decades. What sets these programs apart from a plethora of 
other Federal grant programs is the direct participation of the 
fire service in every aspect of AFG-SAFER. First and foremost, 
local fire departments themselves submit the grants, not 
municipal or State government. Fire departments know their own 
needs, and they make the direct ask.
    Each year, nine fire service organizations, which we call 
the nine sisters, come together to collectively and 
cooperatively establish grant guidelines, prioritizing what the 
pressing needs are then and how the grants should be rated and 
evaluated. These meetings work. I was at the very first one in 
most sense, and they really provide the fire service with a 
voice.
    Over the years, we've ensured that money was fairly divided 
between career and volunteer. We limited how much money any 
single jurisdiction could receive. We established microgrants 
so smaller fire departments could compete among themselves and 
had a better shot at getting grant money. And the list goes 
ever on. But what really makes AFG-SAFER unique and effective 
is its peer-review process. Panels of firefighters from the 
nine sisters convene, they review all the grants, and they make 
a determination on which jurisdictions received the awards. 
It's actual firefighters, not bureaucrats making the call. AFG-
SAFER is truly a program for the overall American fire service.
    I would like to briefly associate our organization with the 
comments made by Dr. Moore-Merrell on the U.S. Fire 
Administration. USFA is a vital resource to the overall fire 
service. We desperately need them to set direction, provide 
education and leadership. Data in the fire service is 
abhorrent. We need USFA to collect and analyze data on 
emergency response, disaster loss statistics, fire service 
capabilities, and the causes of line-of-duty firefighter death 
and injuries, including occupational diseases like the cancer 
that was mentioned in Ranking Member Stevens' opening comments. 
This is especially crucial now with a never-ending series of 
WUI fires, the greater prevalence of superstorms, more deadly 
tornadoes, earthquakes, and regrettably, acts of terror. It's 
incredulous that an agency with such responsibility has such a 
small authorization and even less money during the 
appropriation process. USFA literally operates on budget cuts. 
They, too, must be reauthorized. They are a necessary agency.
    I thank the Members of the Committee for your time and my 
co-panelists for the opportunity to do this. At the appropriate 
time, I'm happy to take any questions.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. O'Connor follows:]
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    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Mr. O'Connor.
    I now recognize Mr. David Bullard for 5 minutes to present 
his testimony.

                TESTIMONY OF MR. DAVID BULLARD,

       GEORGIA DIRECTOR, NATIONAL VOLUNTEER FIRE COUNCIL

    Mr. Bullard. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Chairman 
Collins, Ranking Member Stevens, Ranking Member Ms. Lofgren, 
and distinguished Members of the Subcommittee. My name is David 
Bullard. I am Georgia Director for the National Volunteer Fire 
Council, or NVFC. The NVFC serves national volunteers, 
representing 760,000 firefighters around our Nation, which 
covers 75 percent of the population of this country. Through 
their service and donating time, they save municipalities and 
counties roughly $47 billion through the time they donate. On 
behalf of the NVFC, I thank the Subcommittee for holding this 
important hearing.
    AFG and SAFER grants are by far the most significant 
sources of assistance the Federal Government provides to local 
fire departments. The funding is particularly important to 
small rural fire departments, which are almost exclusively 
volunteer or volunteers offset with minimal career staffing. 
From 2010 to 2020, the volume of fire department service calls 
increased by 23 percent, while the number of volunteer 
firefighters dropped by 12 percent during the same time period.
    Meanwhile, in the last 5 years, the average cost of turnout 
gear, the protective clothing we wear, and SCBAs (self-
contained breathing apparatuses) that we wear to provide safe 
breathing air in a fire increased by 30 to 40 percent on 
average. A national needs assessment study of the Nation's fire 
service consistently show that small volunteer agencies had the 
most difficult time affording up-to-date equipment, training, 
and apparatus. This is primarily for economic reasons. Many 
smaller departments have to fundraise to afford essential 
equipment because there is not support from the local tax base 
or the tax base cannot support them.
    AFG funds are used to obtain critically needed equipment 
and essential resources. Among AFG's successes are grants 
awarded to the Oconee County Fire Department in Georgia. The 
department protects the largest population of an all-volunteer 
fire department in our State, and they received funds to 
replace 54 outdated SCBAs and other crucial equipment.
    Demand for AFG funding is strong. In FY 2022, approximately 
$2.4 billion were requested through AFG for only $324 million 
awarded in the available funding. The SAFER grant program helps 
to increase or maintain the number of firefighters in the 
United States, including recruitment or retention of 
volunteers. Similar to AFG, the demand for SAFER funding is 
strong. In Fiscal Year 2022, approximately $2.8 billion were 
requested in SAFER funding through applications for only $360 
million in available funds.
    Volunteer fire departments are facing significant staffing 
challenges. Some of the largest factors impacting recruitment 
and retention of volunteer firefighters are a relative lack of 
opportunities for young people to remain working or living in 
rural areas. Increased training demands and demands on 
firefighters for their time, which is time away from their 
families, and increased mental and physical fatigue from higher 
call volumes. Among SAFER's successful grants in my State are 
city of Statesboro and Bulloch Counties. These two departments 
received SAFER grants this year to recruit more firefighters to 
meet the emergency response needs of their significantly 
growing populations. Elsewhere, Oregon's Stayton Fire 
Department used two SAFER grants over a 7-year period to 
recruit 80 new firefighters and led to the establishment of the 
Oregon Firefighter Recruitment Network.
    State and national organizations use SAFER funds to create 
retention and recruitment programs that reach much larger 
audiences. The NVFC receives SAFER grants to establish and 
expand our national Make Me a Firefighter campaign. This is a 
web-based tool that provides departments with information about 
establishing recruitment programs and offers an online portal 
for volunteer position listings. To date, there are more than 
16,250 registered users signed up in the campaign, representing 
more than 9,000 fire departments. More than 5,300 volunteer 
opportunities are listed, and nearly 34,000 applications have 
been submitted through the portal.
    Another vital entity to the Nation's volunteer fire service 
is the U.S. Fire Administration each year, as said before, the 
USFA trains approximately 100,000 fire emergency service 
personnel throughout the Nation. Access to training is a 
significant challenge in many rural and volunteer fire 
departments. USFA makes their training accessible by delivering 
training directly to individuals on campus in Emmitsburg and 
remotely through online course offerings. USFA also makes 
courses available to State fire training academies, many of 
which are delivered in rural areas. I'm a staunch advocate for 
attending training provided by the National Fire Academy. In 
Georgia, the number of instate-delivered courses is remarkable 
and meets a critical need for fire departments.
    On behalf of the NVFC, I request that the House of 
Representatives pass an AFG, SAFER, and USFA reauthorization 
bill like the one that passed the Senate by a vote of 92 to 5 
last month before these programs authorizations lapse at the 
end of the fiscal year. At a time when fire departments are 
facing historic economic pressures, it is crucial that AFG and 
SAFER and their current language, including annual adjustments 
for CPI (Consumer Price Index), are retained. We additionally 
request that USFA's authorization be increased from 
approximately $76 million to $95 million to enable the needed 
data collection that is mentioned before, curriculum updates 
and adjustments, and the investigation of major fires. Passage 
of these critical reauthorizations is a top legislative 
priority for the NVFC.
    Thank you again for the opportunity to speak today, and I 
look forward to any questions you have.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bullard follows:]
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    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Mr. Bullard.
    The Chair now recognizes Mr. Kevin Reardon for 5 minutes to 
present his testimony.

                TESTIMONY OF MR. KEVIN REARDON,

               STATE FIRE MARSHALL, STATE OF OHIO

    Mr. Reardon. Good afternoon, Chair Collins, Ranking Member 
Stevens, and distinguished Members of the Committee. 
Representative Sykes, thank you for that gracious introduction.
    My name is Kevin Reardon, and I've been a member of the 
fire service for over 4 decades, and currently I serve as the 
Fire Marshal for the great State of Ohio. It is my pleasure and 
honor to be with you today to support the reauthorization of 
the budget for the United States Fire Administration.
    The impact that the USFA has on States such as Ohio is very 
significant. In Ohio, there are 1,180 fire departments serving 
a population of 1,100--or, I'm sorry, a population of 11.5 
million people, and the majority of the fire departments that 
we have in Ohio are volunteer departments, much like the rest 
of the Nation. We estimate that number to be about 70 percent.
    Like many States, the fire service in Ohio is struggling 
with retention and recruitment problems that are challenging 
and urgent. I've talked with many Fire Chiefs that expressed 
frustration and a sense of urgency because without a consistent 
influx of new personnel, they know the delivery of emergency 
services will be impacted by not having an adequate number of 
responding firefighters. For career departments, this will 
create an overtime issue, which can lead to firefighter burnout 
if that remains in place for an extended period of time. The 
very same issue was even more challenging and more critical for 
volunteer departments who rely on community members to support 
their operations.
    This is why the SAFER grant is so important. Recently, Ohio 
had 22 departments, large and small, receive SAFER funding. 
This funding gives the receiving communities the opportunity to 
add personnel to instantly make a difference. These communities 
know that the addition of new personnel will keep the fire 
department staffed with an adequate number of trained 
firefighters now and into the future.
    Another longstanding concern I hear frequently focuses on 
the issue of equipment. Having the proper equipment is 
necessary for any fire department because it helps them 
accomplish their mission. Everything from forcible entry tools 
to advanced vehicle extrication tools and a host of other 
equipment helps fire departments be successful and ultimately 
save lives.
    Providing the proper tools and equipment for some fire 
departments is a major investment and a major fundraising 
effort. The cost of a new pumper truck can be $600,000 or more. 
A ladder truck can cost as much as $1 million dollars or more. 
For the years 2020 and 2021, 649 Ohio fire departments received 
AFG funding. These grants provided millions of dollars to fire 
departments for apparatus and various other types of equipment 
to help increase their capabilities to serve their citizens. 
Without funding from the AFG program, these communities would 
be left on their own to fund equipment that in some cases 
simply would not be purchased. The usefulness of the equipment 
or the need for the equipment is never a concern, but the cost 
always is a concern.
    As you can tell from the examples provided, the SAFER and 
AFG grants make a significant difference to fire departments 
large and small throughout the State of Ohio and our Nation. 
For the years 2021 and 2022, the total grant funding provided 
by AFG and SAFER grant to Ohio is almost $55 million dollars. 
This funding is critical to States like Ohio. This funding is 
not only an investment in communities, but also an investment 
in promoting and maintaining the safety of our citizens.
    I would also like to take this opportunity to thank the 
USFA for conducting the summit on fire prevention and control 
and for sharing the outcome of that summit with the fire 
service. The outcome of the summit and its recommendations have 
become the foundation of the fire service national strategy 
that has been promoted by the USFA. As the Fire Marshal for the 
State of Ohio, I believe this is a logical and reasonable 
approach to begin addressing some of the longstanding issues 
that are continuing to gain the attention of our profession and 
policymakers in every State.
    The issue of behavioral health and the continued increase 
in the rate of firefighter, EMT (emergency medical technician), 
and paramedic suicides is shocking. We continue to see these 
numbers outpace those who are lost in the line of duty.
    These are just a few examples of the fire service national 
strategy that are needed and will serve to save the lives of 
current and future first responders. I am honored to be here, 
and I appreciate the opportunity to offer my support for the 
reauthorization of the budget for the U.S. Fire Administration. 
Thank you.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Reardon follows:]
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    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Mr. Reardon, and I thank the 
witnesses for each of your testimony.
    At this time, the Chair recognizes himself for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Bullard, in your testimony, you pointed out that 
between 2010 and 2020, there was a 23 percent increase in 
service calls resulting in fire response, but the number of 
volunteer firefighters dropped by 12 percent during the same 
period. Given volunteer fire departments serve the majority of 
our Nation's communities and most of Georgia, this is putting a 
severe strain on our fire response capabilities. What are some 
of the driving factors unique to volunteer fire departments 
that are leading to this drop, and what are some of the things 
that Congress can do to help reverse the trend?
    Mr. Bullard. I think time constraints are a big thing and 
also availability of jobs. If you're not working in the town, 
traditionally, in small town USA, you worked in town, and you 
had employers that would let you leave work and go respond to 
emergencies. As jobs moved out of town or employers changed, 
you lost that ability. The demands of life are more. There are 
more events, they are more ballgames, they are more social 
activities, and it's pulling at time. So we're trying to 
balance the time to train somebody, the time to respond, and 
the stresses that go with it with their everyday life and their 
family.
    And I think some of the successful places that are doing 
well with their recruitment and retention of volunteers is they 
are taking an approach where they look at the family. Can the 
whole family have something to do with the department? It's not 
just running emergency calls. There are administrative things. 
There are things around the station to be done. And there's a 
department in Alabama that has done very well in their program 
because they're taking that approach to the whole family.
    I think the big thing that can be done congressionally is 
the funding for SAFER for the recruiting and retention programs 
and use that to provide recruitment and retention training. 
Within NVFC, we do a recruitment and retention summit. We've 
combined it with our training summit this year to give tools on 
how to recruit members, how to recruit the populations around 
you. In the past, a lot of organizations relied on a, hey, 
we're here, show up and join us. And in today's times, we're 
realizing that doesn't work. You've got to go out and greet 
people and meet them and--right? If it's a church or a civic 
club or whatever, you've got to engage them and give them the 
tools how to engage the people in our community, and maybe we 
can reverse those numbers.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you.
    My next question is basically for all witnesses. Or time 
constraints, we may just--if any of you want to answer it. It's 
clear from your testimonies and from my conversations with 
firefighters in my own district, the AFG and SAFER programs are 
currently a lifeline keeping fire departments across America 
functional. And, as Mr. Bullard said in his testimony, the goal 
of these programs is to bring all departments in the U.S. to a 
baseline level of readiness. However, the Federal Government is 
already trillion dollars and--trillions of dollars in debt, and 
we don't have the resources to fund the operation of all 29,000 
fire departments across the country. So how can Congress 
incentivize more local investment in fire prevention and fire 
departments to reach that baseline of readiness?
    Chief Black. Make sure that's on. Thank you. I'll take a 
stab at that first. These programs are important, and if you 
think about it, the expectation of every citizen the Nation 
right now is if they need help, what are they going to do? 
They're going to call 911. So whether you're a large metro 
department or you're the smallest volunteer department in 
anywhere in this country, the expectation is the same. Our gaps 
come in what each individual department may or may not be able 
to provide, whether it's staffing, whether it's proper 
equipment, whether it's proper training. The importance of AFG 
and SAFER give us the tools to try to bring some of those 
departments up to baseline. We're peer-reviewed, so we're 
looking at that. So our departments are getting prioritized 
based on their need. That's one of the major things we're 
looking at. So these programs are important.
    Two, awareness. We need to do a better job of not just as 
the fire service make sure that we're making our leaders aware 
of what our needs are and what we're doing, but also our 
citizens. Our citizens have to take some responsibility to be 
better at home, be more fire safe, help us. You know, we use a 
public information saying fire is everyone's fight, and we need 
to do more on the home front to make sure we're helping 
ourselves at home, whether it be a disaster, a weather disaster 
or a fire, to help our responders. And I think it's a group 
effort. And I'll leave my comments at that.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you.
    Mr. Reardon. I'll take a stab. I think the fire service is 
a very traditional profession. We don't like change too much, 
and we do things the way they are because that's the way 
they've always been done. That's a mindset that we clearly have 
to get away from when we're talking about, you know, funding, 
recruitment, retention, fire prevention, safety efforts, all of 
those things. We have to overcome that traditional way we've 
always done things and be innovative. We need to be asking how 
to better reach our citizens, our populations. We need to be 
asking, as a Fire Marshal, how to better serve the fire 
departments in our States.
    Fire Marshals have a very unique role in the fire service. 
My role and the role of every other State Fire Marshal in this 
Nation is to hover around at that 30,000 foot level over every 
State and be the visionary in the big picture. And that's 
unique, but it's also given me the opportunity to see the 
magnitude of some of these problems. Funding is huge. 
Recruitment and retention, we've heard that over and over 
again. Those are tremendous problems not only for full-time 
departments, but for volunteers.
    And the volunteer issue is near and dear to us in Ohio 
because we just completed a report for Governor DeWine. He 
established a task force to look at the volunteer fire service 
issue last year. That report was presented to him. We met with 
the volunteer community all over Ohio. We heard the same 
things. But we make it hard to be a volunteer, not just in 
Ohio, in just about every State, and here's how we do it. 
Volunteers, they have to have training. You just can't put on a 
coat and become a firefighter. You got to have training. Some 
volunteers have to pay for that training. Depending on where 
you're doing it, that can be $1,500 to $2,000 or more just to 
get the training to be a volunteer that they're paying for 
themselves. Some departments do pay. Volunteers pay some as 
well. Then you've got the issue of personal protective gear. 
That can be $3-$4,000. If your department doesn't provide that, 
you've got to do that yourself for a job that pays you nothing.
    Then we have recertification requirements, but aren't--
they're not a major deal. They're easily accommodated, but it's 
something else to do. Then we're asking them to drop everything 
at a moment's notice, leave their family at holidays, family 
events, et cetera, to go help someone in their community, and 
then oh, by the way, on a bad day, you could get killed, again, 
for a job that pays nothing.
    So being a volunteer is so much more difficult than the 33-
year career I had as a career firefighter. There are so many 
demands, so many challenges there, and so many of these issues 
that we've all talked about come back to funding. And here 
again, those are good reasons why SAFER and the AFG programs 
are critical to the fire service. They're critical, and, you 
know, personally, I support any increase in funding for those--
both of those programs because I've seen it. I've witnessed the 
benefits of those grants. Thank you.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Stevens of Michigan for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Stevens. Well, thank you. And it's great to hear the 
State Fire Marshal of Ohio, as a Member of Congress from 
Michigan, talk about the importance of volunteer firefighters. 
On I-75 in Troy, Michigan, about 18 months ago we had a gas 
truck, you know, carrying--hit this median in the road. Troy is 
a volunteer firefighter department, 36 hours around the clock 
putting that thing out. Again, multiple firefighters stepped 
in. And I know my Chairman knows a little bit about the 
trucking industry as well.
    So thank you, and just allow me to recognize from this post 
that we hear you on the volunteers and on workforce 
considerations and how much more we need to go. Ms. Bonamici 
and I are both on the Education and Workforce Committee and are 
working on pensions and a variety of other workforce 
considerations.
    But as I mentioned in the opening statement, we're talking 
about the Guaranteeing Equipment Safety for Firefighters Act of 
2020 that we're so delighted that this Committee helped enact, 
which is directing NIST to conduct a study on PFAS and turnout 
gear. And NIST just released this study last week, and they 
found that selecting optimal combinations of fabric for each 
layer could significantly reduce the amount of PFAS present in 
turnout gear.
    And so Dr. Lori Moore-Merrell, do you think you could just 
provide us an update on the USFA's work to protect firefighters 
from potential impacts from PFAS?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Absolutely. Thank you for that question. 
Yes, the USFA is highly engaged, first of all, based on the 
PFAS bill that was just signed in December of last year that 
has some very direct task for us, not the least of which is 
identifying the best practices today for preventing exposure 
for firefighters, making sure that we are updating our 
curriculum to include those best practices for all firefighters 
and disseminating that across the Nation, but also standing up 
a listening session for gathering all baseline data because we 
have a lot of disparate information across the Nation regarding 
PFAS, and understanding that that is only one of the 
carcinogenic exposures----
    Ms. Stevens. Right.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. [continuing]. That we have. And so we 
want to gather that in the context of the other exposures that 
firefighters have. So we're actively pursuing the task that we 
were assigned within that bill, along with our other Federal 
colleagues like the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency), the 
DOD (Department of Defense), the FAA (Federal Aviation 
Administration) because this PFAS is not just in our gear, it's 
also in fire suppressant foam, and so we're all having to deal 
with that as well. So this is an across-the-government 
approach, and USFA is very much in those conversations and will 
be leading the listening session in fact, on May 18, next week, 
on this matter.
    Ms. Stevens. That's great, and we want to make sure that 
you are fully empowered to, you know, have the best resources 
and also not encountering a lot of bureaucracy. And I mentioned 
that--the Empowering the U.S. Fire Administration Act, which 
became law late last year, expanding the USFA's statutory 
authority to allow the agency to conduct onsite postfire 
investigations. We're very happy to have you at the table, and 
I know our localities likely appreciate it, too.
    And so, Chief Black, I just was wondering if you could 
speak to, if you happen to have, you know, anything you can 
share about the benefits from USFA's expanded ability to 
participate in onsite postfire investigations?
    Chief Black. Absolutely. As you heard from the testimonies 
today, we're a complicated service, right? We have volunteer 
fire departments that are small in small parts of the country. 
We have great metropolitan departments, New York, Phoenix, L.A. 
We're very different. And what the USFA provides for the entire 
fire service--Dr. Moore-Merrell here sits as our Nation's Fire 
Chief in a way, right?
    Ms. Stevens. Yeah.
    Chief Black. It's the ultimate dissemination of information 
coming in but also giving us the resources going out, whether 
it's educational classes at the Fire Academy, whether it's the 
information they're gathering, the research done, that is 
helping us----
    Ms. Stevens. Yeah.
    Chief Black [continuing]. But we need her to look at this 
stuff and report back. Not every Fire Chief in this country has 
the ability to do it 24/7, 365----
    Ms. Stevens. Right.
    Chief Black [continuing]. Right? So we need this 
clearinghouse----
    Ms. Stevens. And we need to get in front of these fires----
    Chief Black. Yes. Yes.
    Ms. Stevens [continuing]. You know? I mean, they're 
increasing. Why is that? And I've scratched my head with my 
local fire departments, why? You know, people just spending too 
much on their phones, not recycling their batteries enough.
    And, Dr. Merrell, do you happen to have any examples yet 
from the legislation we passed last year with investigating the 
deadly fires and the ways you've been able to work with the 
local fire departments?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. So that--as you know, that bill was 
based on a fire, a very deadly fire in the Bronx.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Based on what happened in that building 
and the crux of that bill is that we'll be able to look at how 
the building failed long before firefighters arrived. This is 
not a cause-and-origin investigation. It is an investigation of 
the fire safety attributes of any given building, and so that 
would have been----
    Ms. Stevens. And do the codes, do we affect the----
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Absolutely.
    Ms. Stevens. OK.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. And all of those fire safety features 
that we think are important, self-closing doors, making sure 
that we have sprinklers, or tamper-resistant smoke alarms, all 
of these things, particularly in public housing, and so looking 
at that kind of--that research, what we can glean from that, 
and then applying that to other like buildings, that's how we 
get in front of it. How many more buildings are like that one 
in the Bronx across this Nation? And how could informing what 
went badly in that building and all the things that were 
missing, the dampers in the HVAC system, the insulation in the 
walls, all of these things that allowed smoke to move freely 
throughout that building, and that's what killed people on the 
upper floors----
    Ms. Stevens. Yes.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell [continuing]. Not on the fire floor, and 
so that's how we'll apply this going forward, and we're looking 
now at rulemaking and being able to budget for that.
    Ms. Stevens. Yes. Thank you. And thank you for the extra 
time, Mr. Chair. I yield back.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you. The Chair now recognizes Mr. 
Kean of New Jersey for 5 minutes.
    Mr. Kean. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to all of 
our witnesses for being here today.
    Mr. O'Connor, in your testimony, you point out that the 
SAFER program is designed to work so the Federal share of 
employing a firefighter decreases over a period of several 
years so that local governments have time to increase their 
share of the cost. It seems like a good way to incentivize 
State and local investment in the fire services. Is there any 
data on whether or not State and local governments are actually 
increasing their funding for firefighter employment after the 
grant period ends? And how can we build on this model and make 
it more effective or more scalable?
    Mr. O'Connor. When it was originally conceived, it was a 5-
year program that started at the Federal Government taking 100 
percent of the cost the first year.
    Mr. Kean. Right.
    Mr. O'Connor. Through the panels, the nine sisters where we 
do grant guidance, we kind of worked around that. That's more 
just a 3-year, steadier program. Most of the departments--and 
no one is here from FEMA to speak to this, so I'm--I will get 
you the information, but anecdotally, we're not hearing any 
situations in which departments are gaming the system, hiring 
people, and then not continuing their employment subsequently.
    The IFF happily represents probably 90 percent of the 
career firefighters in the country. They all join voluntarily 
and remain members. For us, if we--if that were occurring, we 
would hear from them that firefighters were hired, and after 
the duration of the SAFER period, they were let go. That isn't 
happening.
    I should also note that--Ms. Lofgren said it earlier--for a 
period of time when the recession first hit, we ended up 
morphing the program into something to keep firefighters from 
getting laid off, and that was the example with Local 230 in 
San Jose.
    So the program has had a couple of iterations. It was 
originally designed to make sure that communities came up to 
compliance standards, just as the AFG program was, and they do 
work very complementary and effectively. I will actually ask 
our contacts at FEMA and our grant department to see if we can 
provide you with that data to the extent that it exists.
    Mr. Kean. Thank you. A number of people have talked about 
applying for certain Federal grant programs as complex, and the 
importance of the AFP and SAFER programs are--cannot be 
understated. What are some of the barriers that fire 
departments must overcome when applying for these grant 
programs, and how can Congress make them more accessible? 
Anybody who wants to answer that question, what would you 
recommend?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Kevin, do you want to go?
    Mr. O'Connor. Yeah, I'll just answer for the career side, 
and we do have some more resources. Lieutenant Bullard was very 
eloquent in his discussion of some of the issues in the 
volunteers. Most fire departments aren't like law enforcement 
in which they have dedicated grant staffs, so the ability to 
look at the documents and try to fashion something, a lot of 
particularly smaller and mid-sized departments--and our 
organization has got 3,500 affiliates. A lot of folks think 
we're just the big cities, and we have small departments of 
seven, eight people. They just don't have the knowhow, the 
time, and the expertise to make the applications. I think Dr. 
Moore is probably better positioned, though, to answer it in 
totality than I.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. So thank you very much for that question 
because it is something that we hear quite frequently. One of 
the things that was mentioned earlier, and you heard it in some 
of the opening statements and certainly in mine, is the new 
data system that we are going to be constructing. That data 
system in and of itself will enable profiles of fire 
departments to be added, including their risk profile, not just 
how many stations, how many apparatus, how the apparatus is 
staffed, though that's incredibly important on the grant 
application, when was their last purchase of gear, all of those 
things that we gather.
    The issue is that every time they fill out a grant 
application, we're asking for that over and over and over. This 
new data system is going to be intended to capture that one 
time. It will also build in that risk environment that becomes 
part of the scoring matrix for these grant applications because 
they're to be scored and awarded based on the greatest need or 
the greatest risk and compare the resources to that risk. And 
so this new data system, we anticipate having this profile, 
having it accessible then at all times, so they would simply 
enter their ID into the application, and that would auto-
populate or become the reference for their profile. And so that 
will streamline the applications greatly along the way, and so 
we feel like that'll be a better accessible and help us along 
the way for that data-gathering process as well.
    Mr. Kean. OK. And for any member of the panel as well, 
how's--how do academic researchers translate their work for 
fire chiefs and firefighters in the field or the ways that 
Congress can help incentivize research of interest to the fire 
services and translate such research into useful outcomes that 
are tangible to firefighters?
    Chief Black. Thank you. Absolutely continue funding the 
ability to do research. There's some great researchers we all 
work with out there that are translating the data for us and 
working with us so that it gets down to my level. Again, I just 
want to turn to my firefighter and say, don't wear your gear 
unless you need to be in your gear. I just want to know the 
Cliff Notes. I want to use the researchers through funding 
mechanisms where they can do the work for us, whether it's fire 
behavior, cancer prevention, better use of our gear. So 
continuing to fund these programs, allowing for research and 
development, and let them translate for us and working with us 
best to help our firefighters.
    Mr. Reardon. Representative, I think it's also important to 
note that now more than ever, the fire service is depending on 
data in ways that we've never used it before. Ten years ago, we 
were asking basic questions we thought were relevant. We 
thought it was good information, and I think, over time, we 
figured out we were asking the wrong questions, looking at the 
wrong data. So the fact that we have the ability to collect a 
lot of data now, Ohio, for example, every year we send it to 
the U.S. Fire Administration through the NFIRS system about 1 
million to 1.5 million fire reports from all fire departments 
in Ohio. We have a mandatory reporting requirement for fire 
incidents in Ohio, so we have about 98 percent compliance. So 
we're getting very, very good data.
    But moving forward, I think the key is when we get into new 
systems that the Administrator has talked about, we need to 
look at making sure we're asking the right questions to get to 
the right data because community risk reduction is so important 
to everyone, whether you're large, small department, township 
department, volunteer, career pay, combination, whatever, it is 
critical that you get that modeling to help understand your 
community's risk and how you can prevent fires.
    We have fires happening now that--I'll pick an example, 
smoking fires, careless smoking fires are the leading cause of 
fires in Ohio right now. We have a tremendous spike in fires 
caused by people smoking while on oxygen, which years ago was a 
small blip. Now it's a huge spike. And it's baby boomers 
getting older on oxygen, chronic smokers. That's an issue, but 
we need to take that data a little bit farther.
    So I think while we're talking about data, we need to 
understand we're looking at data much differently today than we 
did 10 years ago, and probably 2 years from now we'll look at 
it differently. But the key is we've got the tools, we've got 
the ability, and we have the partnership of the States with the 
U.S. Fire Administration to share the data back and forth, to 
get to those right answers.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you, Mr. Reardon.
    Mr. Kean. I yield back.
    Chairman Collins. The gentleman's time is expired.
    Mr. Kean. I know. Thank you.
    Chairman Collins. The Chair now recognizes Ms. Lofgren of 
California for 5 minutes.
    Ms. Lofgren. Well, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and 
thanks to each one of you. Listening to you is really 
inspiring, and I think of all of the efforts that each one of 
you has made to keep our country safer and all of the men and 
women in the departments around the country. Really, it's been 
a treat to listen to you, and I want to thank you for all of 
your work.
    Just a couple of questions. We've been talking about data, 
and I'm wondering, Dr. Moore-Merrell, how the new data system 
is going to be incorporated into assessing the climate-driven 
increases and the frequency and the severity of wildfire and 
the operations and trainings. I was at a--not a seminar, but a 
group meeting at NASA (National Aeronautics and Space 
Administration) Ames last month where all of the--you know, 
California has had horrible wildfires, and all of the agencies, 
State and Federal were they're trying to figure out how do we 
do predictions? How do we use science to get ahead of it, to 
fight, to predict, and the like. We did identify some gaps 
actually being able to access the data. Are you connected with 
that multiagency group?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Yes, ma'am. That's an excellent 
question, very insightful. And yes, we are in fact working 
across with all of our Federal partners in this space. That 
capability exists to be able to leverage data from multiple 
data sources, to be able to mine out those insights about 
conditions being right for. And so today, just like our 
National Weather Service does with the red flag warnings, that 
is a substantial amount of data that goes in to set those red 
flag warnings. What we'd like to do is to be able to give more 
information about not just the red flag warning, but be more 
specific about the--have the specificity of the exact locations 
or much narrower locations of where the conditions exist. We'll 
be able to do that by using a lot of the data that already 
exists, as I said, in other Federal organizations, pulling it 
from a siloed area where it was intended for one purpose. But 
if I couple it with data from another area, if I have the built 
environment, the street grid, plus the weather data, all of 
these things together begin to allow us to mine them for 
intelligence that we've not had before.
    Ms. Lofgren. Right.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. And so adding to that some very narrow 
machine learning to be able to train these models from past 
incidents where the conditions were right and led to an event, 
we'll be able to look then and have much better predictive 
capability. It won't be as granular as we'd like, but it will 
be a start and give us a lot better chance for pre-positioning 
resources and anticipating an event that may occur.
    Ms. Lofgren. One of the issues--and I don't want to 
overstate this--but we have more data than we're able to use, 
and part of the problem is accessing that data, and the sense 
was that we needed not to micromanage or top-down, but there 
needed to be a trusted partner to be the repository of data 
that would then be very accessible. And I'm hoping that you are 
actively involved in those discussions with NASA and the 
private sector people also have data that need to feed into 
that.
    I--you know, California has a Citizens Redistricting 
Commission, and it's completely nonpartisan, although they did 
some odd things this year. And for many years, I've represented 
San Jose, California, a city of close to 1 million people. This 
year, there were some adjustments, so I have--half my district 
is rural and half is very urban, and so I've had the great 
pleasure of meeting some wonderful people in small towns who 
have volunteer fire departments. And, for example, a King City, 
a wonderful city. I love the people down there, about 13,000 
people, they don't have a big tax base.
    I'm wondering, as you assess grant applications, you want 
to look at fire but do you look at anything else? For example, 
there's a huge housing shortage in California, and the Silicon 
Valley didn't build the housing for their workers and they're 
spilling out to--adjacent communities are overwhelmed. This 
city, for example, wanted--and some other cities wanted to 
build three- or four-story apartments that were suitable for 
their downtown, but they couldn't do it because they didn't 
have a fire truck with a ladder that went high enough. Would 
you factor in that kind of information as you look at grant 
applications?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. You know, on a go-forward basis, the 
answer to that is absolutely yes. Today, we're limited because 
all that data doesn't exist in one place, nor can we pull it 
together in a timely manner or we would have to expand even 
further the grant applications. And so going forward, that is 
exactly what we want to do. We want to make sure that we're 
assessing risk appropriately. That includes the built 
environment and includes the climate change impact that we can 
now identify. It includes the population migration. It includes 
all of the vulnerabilities that would be in a community, much 
like you just described. As they continue to grow, as they 
build additional infrastructure, then this adds to the risk 
profile. These things we'll be able to know and capture in a 
much more real-time capability. That will give us a good risk 
profile that can now be compared to the resources that that 
fire department may or may not have. If we can match resources 
to risk and we have the science to do so, then we can identify 
those vulnerability gaps because when we have vulnerability 
gaps, we know that we are far more likely to have firefighter 
injury and death, civilian injury and death, and property loss. 
That's why we need the resource match to the risk environment. 
And so this data system, that is really the premise. How do we 
leverage information that is available, we need it in the right 
place, and to be able to use the right analytics to answer 
these questions.
    Ms. Lofgren. Well, I'll just end, whether it's career fire 
departments or volunteer, the firefighters need to be able to 
live in the community they serve, and that's one of the issues 
we're addressing.
    My time is up, Mr. Chairman.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Thank you.
    Ms. Lofgren. I yield back.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you. Hey, I'm sorry to have to ask, 
but because the conversation and answers to questions are so 
good, but I want to make sure that I flag--we may have votes in 
15 to 20 minutes, so I'd like to ask the witnesses be aware of 
the 5-minute marker there so that we can get through all of our 
Members and their questions.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Salinas of Oregon for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
    So Dr. Moore-Merrell, our Full Committee recently held a 
hearing to understand the research needs around the use of 
uncrewed aircraft systems and advanced air mobility, and we 
discussed the significant contributions these technologies can 
offer to firefighting. Teledyne FLIR, which has manufacturing 
operations in my district in Oregon 6, produces UAS (unmanned 
aircraft systems) and advanced imaging equipment for 
firefighters. So I'm particularly interested in this 
intersection of advanced technology and wildfire response. So 
can you talk a little bit about how USFA is supporting research 
in these kinds of cutting-edge technologies to improve fire 
response?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. Absolutely. Thank you for that question. 
We are working right now with the Wildland Fire Mitigation 
Commission that, as you all know, passed well over a year ago. 
That commission is coming together primarily led by USDA 
(United States Department of Agriculture), DOI (Department of 
the Interior), and FEMA. And so I sit as one of the co-Chairs 
on behalf of the FEMA Administrator on that commission, and 
this is exactly what we're addressing together. And so we are 
considering--the aviation report was released in January that 
considered some of this from the commission, but we'll have 
further data science and technology recommendations that will 
come forward in September of this year from that commission. So 
all of these things are very actively being discussed across 
the Federal agencies that are participating in that commission, 
and so I would like to defer to that question, if we may, to 
September for that report.
    Ms. Salinas. I love it. Thank you. And then just as a quick 
follow up, so does USFA coordinate with other Federal research 
agencies to help to advance and deploy some of these new 
technologies? And is there more that Congress can do to 
facilitate that kind of interagency cooperation?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. We actively work with the Department of 
Homeland Security Science and Technology (S&T) on many 
different research projects. So USFA has, in our legislation, a 
mandate to conduct research, but often we work across the 
boards because of our program funding and our extension to 
reach, so we are able to reach some funding in other agencies 
like S&T. So we have recently worked with them on a wildfire 
sensor that can be deployed. That's under testing right now.
    We're also looking at and have developed an app that can be 
used in the interface to be able to hold this app. It uses 
augmented reality. You literally download it. It's free. It is 
already active in the app stores. You hold it up to your home, 
and it will show you where you have vulnerabilities, whether 
it's vegetation, the wrong windows, the wrong roofing 
materials. And so these are some of the projects that have been 
deployed even now. There's also something called TAK (Team 
Awareness Kit), which is a firefighter tracking capability that 
has been deployed.
    One of our deficiencies, I'll be very frank, is we're not 
marketing these well enough. We know how to do them. We know 
how to prepare them, make sure that they are accurate and 
usable. We have to do a better job of getting them in front of 
our firefighters for use on the ground.
    Ms. Salinas. Thank you. And then this question is directed 
to Mr. Reardon. I appreciate the attention that you and others 
brought to the basic equipment needs of our smaller local fire 
departments. I recently met with members of the McMinnville 
Fire Department back home, and they raised some of the same 
concerns. Last year, there were over 600 times that McMinnville 
did not have an ambulance available for its residents and had 
to call for outside agencies to assist, leading obviously to 
longer response times. Two of their fire engines are aging to 
the point where they need to be removed from service.
    So if the Assistance to Firefighters Grant and SAFER 
programs were to see funding cuts, and I believe that our 
findings really do reflect our priorities, how would that 
affect our small and rural communities' ability to respond in a 
timely manner to fires and medical emergencies? And even just 
some illustrative stories might be helpful.
    Mr. Reardon. Thanks for that question. Obviously, the 
smaller communities will feel the biggest brunt. In Ohio, we 
have communities that they have fundraising efforts for fuel, 
things like that, a LifePak, a fundraising effort to buy a new 
LifePak to help their citizens.
    So on a larger scale, if you're talking about reducing 
grant programs of this magnitude to all the States, those 
smaller communities--and again, most likely volunteer fire 
departments, they're going to feel the push. They're going to 
feel the stress and the tension. And the--being able to not 
respond, that problem is sadly only going to get worse. As runs 
have increased in every sector of the fire department since 
COVID, it's just hard to imagine a time when we're going to go 
backward and see a decrease. I just don't see it. Most fire 
departments, 85 to 90 percent of their runs are EMS runs. So 
that's the critical thing is EMS. That's the thing that fire 
departments do the most of. So we have to consider that, but 
those smaller communities will feel the pain first.
    Mr. O'Connor. If I may, representing both smaller and 
larger departments, I'm talking now in my role as the 
commissioner in Baltimore City, we have medic units that are 
out of service for 2 hours, and part of it is problems in the 
hospital. So it's a pervasive problem not just in small 
counties. The city is actually purchasing used equipment, one 
because of supply chain issues, two because of cost. But the 
real issue is the staffing, both on the career and volunteer 
side. If you don't have enough firefighters, mandatory overtime 
is a huge issue in most career departments. You either have to 
hire if you want to maintain a level of service or pay the 
overtime. That contributes to the stress.
    As Marshal Reardon said with respect to PTS (post-traumatic 
stress), we lose more firefighters to that than we do to line-
of-duty deaths. It's a problem that will hit everybody. And 
it's more than just a SAFER and AFG programs. This is a huge 
issue that really needs to be taken a look at holistically, but 
it is a problem throughout the entire spectrum of the fire 
service.
    Chairman Collins. Thank you.
    The Chair now recognizes Ms. Bonamici of Oregon for 5 
minutes.
    Ms. Bonamici. Hi, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And yes, we have 
two Members from Oregon on this Subcommittee, which is great.
    Thank you so much for your testimony. Thank you to all of 
the first responders who are here and listening. Thank you so 
much for your work.
    I want to just mention--I know Ranking Member Stevens 
mentioned PFAS, and it's come up in the conversation today. I 
also want to recognize Senator Merkley and I have legislation 
to ban asbestos, which most other countries have banned, and we 
have not yet in this country. I know, Mr. O'Connor, that the 
Chief Medical Officer from IAFF and others testified in the 
Senate Committee that Senator Merkley held. It's an incredibly 
dangerous substance that, of course, is affecting firefighters 
disproportionately. So it's--of course, I'm interested in 
addressing the PFAS issue as well, but we also need to address 
asbestos.
    So being from Oregon, I was listening to the Ranking Member 
of the Full Committee Lofgren talk about the district she 
represents. I also have suburban areas like Portland, small 
towns like McMinnville, which used to be in the district I 
represented for a decade, and also a whole heck of a lot of 
forest land in addition to small communities on the coast, so 
very diverse district.
    In 2021, we had a tough time. We lost more than 820,000 
acres. The Bootleg Fire in Oregon was the State's largest fire 
that year and at the time was the country's largest fire. 
Thousands of families had evacuate their homes. It burned 
hundreds of homes and outbuildings. Twenty-twenty was even more 
damaging, torched about 1.1 million acres, destroyed thousands 
of homes, driving hundreds of million dollars in lost economic 
output, so serious issue with wildfires.
    I was incredibly grateful for the swift and heroic action 
of the firefighters and first responders. I went out and talked 
to some--several of them during that period of time, and I have 
made it a tradition. To me, Labor Day is not about picnics and 
sales. I visit my firefighters in the district and thank them 
for their work.
    So I also want to recognize Ranking Member Lofgren. We 
introduced the National Wildland Fire Risk Reduction Program 
Act with our Science Committee colleagues last year. We really 
want to increase our understanding, of course, of wildfires and 
the harmful effects and work on preparedness.
    So my first question is for Dr. Moore-Merrell. I want to 
talk about the summit. You mentioned that you had the summit to 
identify strategies facing the Nation's fire service, and one 
strategy was a National Apprenticeship Program. As Ranking 
Member Stevens said, we serve on the Education and Workforce 
Committee as well, really interested in how we fill these 
workforce gaps. So what is the vision for National 
Apprenticeship Program, and how do you expect that this will 
help with recruitment, retention, and diversification? And have 
you taken steps yet to implement it? And how does the SAFER 
grant program fit into this effort?
    Dr. Moore-Merrell. That's an excellent question. So from 
the summit, we did have these six strategies, and one of them 
is this workforce issue or recruitment and retention. So right 
after the summit, we came together, the whole of the fire 
service, in fact, a lot of the leaders at this table to have 
this discussion, and we have a workgroup right now that is 
actively working all of the options, looking at apprenticeship 
programs. There are States who have apprenticeship programs, I 
believe yours is one of them----
    Ms. Bonamici. Right.
    Dr. Moore-Merrell [continuing]. Washington State, 
California, and so we're assessing these to see if they are 
applicable and can be implemented, much like the Department of 
Labor does with industry or trade, apprenticeships, and so 
looking into those, see if there's a best practice, also 
assessing some of the departments in the Nation that may not 
have the same challenges, some that have found a best practice, 
D.C. Fire for one as looking at high school and doing mentoring 
and literally raising people into the job, helping them to see 
it as an option. And so I'm expecting a report out on May 21 
from all of our workgroups along these strategies. They'll give 
me a midyear report, and then we'll report back at the summit. 
And at that point, we'll be ready to release some actionable 
items from this workgroup.
    Ms. Bonamici. OK. That's terrific. And we have Banks, 
Oregon, which is a rural community in Washington County where 
they do a great job working with their high school students, 
and they're intentional about recruiting young women as well.
    So, Mr. O'Connor, the ALERTWildfire, this advanced high-
speed camera system that allows firefighters and first 
responders to predict, monitor, prepare, mitigate, particularly 
in the West. And University of Oregon, my--I'm an alum so I pay 
attention to what they're doing. So they're a partner in the 
work, and they collaborate with Federal, State, county 
agencies, utilities, and stakeholders. So you mentioned USFA's 
data collection efforts, that they've aged and need some 
updating. So as Congress reauthorizes the USFA, why is it 
crucial to build on the existing partnerships, but also 
incorporate emerging technologies and data systems like 
ALERTWildfire? And how can we leverage programs like fire to 
promote the expansion of advanced technologies?
    Mr. O'Connor. Well, speaking generally, in any of the new 
technologies, first, prevention is--and resiliency, preparation 
are front end. Those are resources now that we have that can 
detect fires in their incipient stages, get people out there, 
and hopefully catch them very early. So we need to be doing 
that. There needs to be coordination, but it needs to be done, 
again, I use the word holistically. There's a lot of different 
folks, private and Federal, different agencies looking at 
things differently, and there needs to be better coordination 
with respect to that.
    It's a great program. I think that if you look at the 
investment--I have not looked at it recently, but I remember 
for--I think it was like $230 million could actually have taken 
like, I think, the entire State of California with those types 
of cameras. I don't know if it was the one from your district. 
But the technology, when you look at it in totality, is not 
that expensive, just like aerial technology with planes and 
helicopters, both in the prevention side----
    Ms. Bonamici. Right.
    Mr. O'Connor [continuing]. And the extinguishment side.
    But I'd like to add just one thing myself. Part of the 
problem that we have with respect to the wildfires is training. 
At the end of the day, once they start, they're going to be put 
out by firefighters.
    Ms. Bonamici. Right.
    Mr. O'Connor. And the problem that we have is most 
structural firefighters--and whether it's your State, 
firefighters coming from Portland, firefighters coming to 
Seattle, certainly throughout California, Georgia, you're going 
to have people coming to those fires who are trained structural 
firefighters. They do not have the equipment----
    Ms. Bonamici. Yes.
    Mr. O'Connor [continuing]. They do not have the training. 
And until that's done, there really needs to be an effort, 
whether it's using USDA money because they have the most of it, 
but to make sure structural firefighters are universally 
trained so they're--in wildland disciplines----
    Ms. Bonamici. Absolutely.
    Mr. O'Connor [continuing]. And provide the right 
information.
    Ms. Bonamici. We also need to provide the same health 
protections and presumptions for the people fighting wildfires 
as we do to urban and other fires.
    And my time has expired. I yield back. Thank you.
    Chairman Collins. All right. Thank you, witnesses, for your 
valuable testimony, and thank you to the Members for your 
questions.
    The record will remain open for 10 days for additional 
comments and written questions from Members. This hearing is 
adjourned.
    [Whereupon, at 3:33 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]

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